Speak Out November 6 to December 31, 2009

Friday, November 6, 2009

The Marshall Democrat-News welcomes views or questions on any issue. We hope you'll express yourself freely and responsibly. We reserve the right to exclude entries that we deem disrespectful, threatening, obscene or in other ways objectionable.

Past Speak Out conversations

View 523 comments
Note: The nature of the Internet makes it impractical for our staff to review every comment. Please note that those who post comments on this website may do so using a screen name, which may or may not reflect a website user's actual name. Readers should be careful not to assign comments to real people who may have names similar to screen names. Refrain from obscenity in your comments, and to keep discussions civil, don't say anything in a way your grandmother would be ashamed to read.
  • Today, Ranking Member of the House Ways and Means Committee Dave Camp (R-MI) released a letter from the non-partisan Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT) confirming that the failure to comply with the individual mandate to buy health insurance contained in the Pelosi health care bill (H.R. 3962, as amended) could land people in jail. The JCT letter makes clear that Americans who do not maintain "acceptable health insurance coverage" and who choose not to pay the bill's new individual mandate tax (generally 2.5% of income), are subject to numerous civil and criminal penalties, including criminal fines of up to $250,000 and imprisonment of up to five years.

    Add to this the wonderful example of the Obama/SEIU thug-like tactics used at the town hall meeting in Aug at ST Louis, I think we can all draw comparisons between the liberal/obama community organizing tactics and the tactics used by many of the dictators and even Hitler when they came to power. Direct attacks on the freedom of speech, both in the media and in policies such as the fairness doctrine and net neturality and even the thought police type policies like hate crime legislation can add to the comparisons. Heck, how many liberals are stating in public that they are jealous of Chavez and his control of the media?

    I know someone will state that anyone comparing Obama to the likes of Hitler and Chavez is evil or wrong but I am not saying he wants to murder people in their homes, place them in detention camps or create a superior race. The comparison is strictly about the tactics used.

    -- Posted by mrxray on Fri, Nov 6, 2009, at 11:42 PM
  • On the note of the whole debacle in ST Louis, I hope that EVERY one in Missouri would be sending letters to the paper, to the courts and to the prosecuters in that area to demand that these thugs be prosecuted and not allow the crime to be covered up as it is a huge embarassment on a national scale for our state that we would try to cover up something such as this

    -- Posted by mrxray on Fri, Nov 6, 2009, at 11:43 PM
  • Has anyone read ( The Uprising) By David Sitora? This guy hit the Nail on the head, as to what has to be done to change this Government.Also if they pass anything but Single Payer, we will be all over this again in the Future,and a hell of lot worse! Why do we have to take this from our Employees,voting them out is our only recourse! But that takes too **** long ! I haven't seen one Protest from the Grass Roots, but like they said why should we have to keep voting on Change when we all ready put the man in that ran on this very subject! We can support him, but he has to make some waves in Washington, and all of us can back him up? he has to get started soon or he's done??

    -- Posted by Jo on Sat, Nov 7, 2009, at 12:34 PM
  • What's the deal with the old bridge outside of town? Take the highway past Butterfields'. At the fork, take a right, then at the stop sign take a left. I mean, it had a hole in the floor..... 10 years ago. Did they just find out it was bad??

    -- Posted by ieatsuperglue on Sat, Nov 7, 2009, at 3:44 PM
  • ieatsuperglue: Do you mean the Wilton Springs bridge? http://www.marshallnews.com/story/1285580.html

    -- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sat, Nov 7, 2009, at 5:52 PM
  • notgvnasht: Very sorry to hear of the death of your father.

    -- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sat, Nov 7, 2009, at 5:53 PM
  • notgvnasht, very sorry to hear about your father.

    -- Posted by Scarpetta on Sat, Nov 7, 2009, at 6:13 PM
  • Nana Dot: I know what your saying , and i have wrote E Mails to the Whitehouse ,that i though later, they would send the Secret Service to my house Ha. I'm very impatient about things in our Government! I'm not big on Parliamentary Procedure,and all this niceness they try to display! I personally think they should bring back Dualling ha! I do say the Democratic Party had better get some backbone, like way back when! My dad used to say Being nice go's, just so far! I don't know maybe i'm a reject from the old days in Marshall ha???? Glad you decided to stay with us Nana Dot!

    -- Posted by Jo on Sat, Nov 7, 2009, at 9:53 PM
  • Well I'm happy that the House passed Healthcare but I'm very dissapointed that Ike voted against it. Now if the Senate will get some backbone and pass healthcare then maybe we can have healthcare that everyone can afford.

    Shame on you Ike!

    -- Posted by movaldude on Sun, Nov 8, 2009, at 12:06 AM
  • Nanadot: Yeah I know...I love the whole part about making people criminals if they DONT buy what the government tells them to. The way this is set up it is NOT like care insurance. With car insurance they are attempting to regulate your action of driving a car with the potential of crashing into someone else or their property and doing damage. If you dont want to pay for car insurance then you can CHOOSE to not drive or risk the fines if you dont have insurance.

    This just flat out says if you dont buy health insurance then you are a criminal subject to both fines and prison. I know this will get challenged in the Supreme Court and should get overturned. IF not then this is the next course of action that your wonderful government will take.

    We already have seen the desire to tax everything in the name of "whats best for us" Sin taxes of all sorts. But they have alreayd stated that they want to tax you for every mile you drive, add a new sin tax by taxing fast food. And I had some other examples of current ideas being tossed around of things they want to decide for you. Granted some of you will say that obesity is a problem so the tax on fast food is good. However, if you are a steak lover and the greenie, the sky is falling global warming stupidity gets legislated, then they will start saying because of the methane emitted by animals, we must reduce their population so they will tax your steaks so high that most cannot afford them. They will tax your individual family dwelling because it is selfish to take up so much space for ONE family when the earth is overpopulated. They will tell you what kind of car you can drive, where you can work and how far you can commute, BUT you will have to take a bus but who cares if the schedule does not run efficiently for YOUR personal schedule and you have to spend hours of your time waiting on buses.

    That is just a few of the examples of what our Government in the name of Liberal Progressive BS that they will attempt, are attempting to do and if the Supreme court does not stop the mandating of the purchasing of health insurance then it will open the door for Uncle Sam and Big Brother to make all your decisions for you.

    -- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Nov 8, 2009, at 1:48 AM
  • Econ 101 will tell you that if the government attempts to spend their way out of a recession that the crowding out effect will counter it and instead of seeing economic stimulus from the government spending you will see contraction of consumer spending or investing or both. That means less people spending less money and fewer investors willing to invest. That means fewer people willing to take the risk to start up new businesses and more businesses being cautiouns and not hiring new people, laying off people and even some businesses ending. We see that right now. Unemployment 10.2% and nothing to suggest it wont go higher next month. Many economist project that there will be more foreclosures at the end of the year or the first of next, many doing it on purpose because they owe more than the house is now worth and this round of foreclosures will hurt worse according to them.

    Then you have the Biden/Obama Hurray the recession is over BS that is based on a bump in the GDP because of the cash for clunkers and first time buyers programs for housing. We already see that people have stopped buying cars in high numbers so that effect will end and the first time buyers will all have their homes in short order if they want them and that stimulus effect will end. Point being this bump in the economy that they are praising is more likely than not temporary....

    YET you all want a heavily tax funded health insurance plan that will NOT reduce the cost of health care and WILL increase the health insurance premiums for most Americans according to analysis that I have seen and studied.

    In fact, since we have all these other nations to look to we can see that our QUALITY of care will be reduced the more the government takes over. Tax funded nationalized health systems inherently are unsustainable and services have to be stopped, delayed or reduced to cut costs... never ending cycle that several of the European nations are going through.

    -- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Nov 8, 2009, at 1:56 AM
  • I posted somewhere here a somewhat facetious post concerning old-line colleges and their ability to maintain old buildings. Think Ivy League and Missouri Valley College. Old alumni die off and leave big money to their alma mater. I mentioned it would be nice if some of the well-off Marshall High alumni would remember their alma mater in their wills.

    I recently discovered the Morrison family (Gregg-Morrison Gym) has given some more money to MVC and the money is being spent to rehab old buildings.

    How is it colleges and universitys get left money but the old high school gets left out? Wake Up America! (If you never heard of Earl Pitts, you won't understand the wake up remark.


    -- Posted by red dog on Sun, Nov 8, 2009, at 4:56 AM
  • Page by page -- what the Pelosi health care bill actually says.

    This one struck me. You can't buy better even if you want to.

    * Sec. 303 (pp. 167-168) makes it clear that, although the "qualified plan" is not yet designed, it will be of the "one size fits all" variety. The bill claims to offer choice--basic, enhanced and premium levels--but the benefits are the same. Only the co-pays and deductibles differ. You will have to enroll in the same plan, whether the government is paying for it or you and your employer are footing the bill.


    -- Posted by AF Brat on Sun, Nov 8, 2009, at 9:39 AM
  • Here's a question that caught my eye. Under the story about the Marshall school bond failure, fvsol posted a list of schools districts that passed bonds Nov. 3. Out of about 30 districts with bond issues on the ballot, Marshall was one of two or three that failed. Ray later asked: What factors made Marshall different from all those other communities?

    I'd be interested in what everybody thinks about that.

    -- Posted by Eric Crump on Sun, Nov 8, 2009, at 10:14 AM
  • Eric,

    Like I said, VOTE NO. On the grounds they won't address the traffic issue until they BUILD the school.

    -- Posted by ieatsuperglue on Sun, Nov 8, 2009, at 1:40 PM
  • I believe there is an organization connected to the Public Schools called the Marshall Public Schools Foundation. People make tax-free contributions to it all the time. I have and I encourage you to do so as well.

    -- Posted by oneofmany on Sun, Nov 8, 2009, at 1:57 PM
  • Be careful of those who use politically-juiced "statistics."

    "Let's first dispose of that 37th place ranking in the [nine year-old] WHO study, since it's become a staple of the indictment of U.S. health care.... To appreciate how strange the ranking is, you really have to ask yourself just one question: Would I prefer to be treated for a serious ailment or injury in Oman, Portugal, Greece, Colombia, Cyprus, Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Morocco, Chile, Dominica and Costa Rica as opposed to the United States?

    "If you answered no, along with most other sane people, you have begun to see the problem: All of those nations, some of them quite poor, appear above the U.S. in the oft-cited WHO ranking. MEANING THE RANKING MUST BE QUITE FLAWED, AND IT IS.

    "Glen Whitman, an economics professor at California State University, analyzed the WHO's screwy rankings.... As he explains, WHO based its list on five factors, three of which involve POLITICAL value judgments.

    "For example, one of the criteria is 'financial fairness,' related to the percentage of household income spent on health. The use of this measurement, Whitman notes, 'necessarily makes countries that rely on market incentives look inferior.' ***

    "It gets worse. The rankings are also adjusted 'to reflect a country's performance relative to how well it theoretically [in whose opinion?] could have performed.' ***

    "A more relevant comparison, Whitman argues, would be to 'ask which health systems do the best job of dealing with whatever health conditions arise' -- by comparing, say, five-year mortality rates for specific ailments.

    "It turns out that some such comparisons exist. Moreover, as Nobel-winning economist Gary Becker pointed out in a recent blog post, 'the U.S. health system tends to look pretty good' when measured on this basis.

    "A study published in Lancet Oncology in 2007 calculates cancer survival rates for both men and women in the United States, the United Kingdom, and the European Union as a whole, Becker wrote. 'The study claims that the most important determinants of cancer survival are early diagnosis, early treatment, and access to the best drugs, and that the United States does very well on all three criteria. . . . [T]the calculated five-year survival rates are much better in the U.S.'"

    Every time I travel abroad (which is often), the first thing I purchase is evacuation insurance. I want to be in a UNITED STATES Level One Trauma center AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

    Just like King Abdullah of top-ranked Saudi Arabia. He is treated at the Mayo Clinic in Minnesota. Because he wants the best in the world. ME TOO.


    -- Posted by AF Brat on Sun, Nov 8, 2009, at 3:12 PM
  • I did not vote yes for the bond issue. These are my reasons; not enough school. I simply do not beleive that by voting for such a small school we are helping ourseves move in to the future.

    I am certain that had it passed we would have been asked again in the future to pass yet another bond.

    I say if your going to do something do it right the first time.

    We need a place large enough for K-8, enough play ground space and parking, and good acess in and out.

    I do agree we need all new schools for our elementary students and junior high students, but

    we need them in one lump sum.

    Yes, I know the drill but that would be 72 classrooms, two cafaterias.........but wouldn't it be nice to know that we have state of the art classes for all our elementary students instead of part of them.

    -- Posted by litlmissme on Sun, Nov 8, 2009, at 3:18 PM
  • I hear ya, litlmissme. I agree it would be better to build for K-5 all at once. 1 bldg or 2 doesn't matter too much to me. But I remember reading that $20m is all they can borrow. So would you favor a bigger but cheaper building? I'd worry it would wear out faster and people would get mad about that.

    -- Posted by taxedpayer on Sun, Nov 8, 2009, at 5:09 PM
  • litlmissme,

    Oops. I see you said you wanted a K-8 building. That would sure solve the problem of old buildings, because then you could replace BMS, too. But wow, what a huge building that would have to be! I don't know if that could even be done with $20m (unless it was made of plywood and duct tape ;-)

    -- Posted by taxedpayer on Sun, Nov 8, 2009, at 5:27 PM
  • As a community we collected enough money to build a Cancer Center. I believe as a community we could raise some funds for a new school as well. Then once the community has kicked in, put it on the ballot again and see the out come.

    Before any one says why don't you attend the school board meetings, I have. I have also talked on a personal level with at least two board members.

    -- Posted by litlmissme on Sun, Nov 8, 2009, at 5:35 PM
  • I like your idea, litlmissme. I wonder if the school foundation would agree to handle donations. It would be like earnest money for a loan, a sign of intent and commitment. And it would help get more people directly involved in the effort. Only registered voters get to vote, but everybody can pitch in with fundraising.

    -- Posted by taxedpayer on Sun, Nov 8, 2009, at 6:43 PM
  • nanadot:

    I am not sure where or how you are comparing the US to those nations listed and how you are comparing our health care systemt to theirs. Are you using those ridiculous WHO rankings?

    -- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Nov 8, 2009, at 8:06 PM
  • Below is a link to an article that discusses the Center for Responsive Politics's reports regarding the financial status of our politicians

    Maybe because they are so "rich" they are feeling guility and this explains why they are so willing to spend everyone else's money (note they dont donate a great portion of their money to solve our "social injustices" instead they want to spend OTHER people's money) to solve social justice issues.

    Not very many of these policiticians know what I have to go through every day working and saving and making do with pay day to pay day stresses. Yet they want to take MORE of my money to pay for other people's situations when all they are really doing is increasing our economic woes and increasing our debt and increasing our unemployment .....when are we going to stand up and say enough is enough?


    -- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Nov 8, 2009, at 8:10 PM
  • Pardon me NanaDot but this inaccurate comment was posted by YOU, not mrxray or me -- "- we are 47th in the WORLD - well BELOW all of those countries you say we 'look to'."

    It's 37th not 47th and the entire WHO Survey is crap for the reasons stated.

    It's bad to throw rocks if you live in a glass house.


    P. S. Why, then, does King Abdullah (who can afford to go anywhere) come to the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota USA ?

    -- Posted by AF Brat on Sun, Nov 8, 2009, at 9:42 PM
  • Eric Crump asked: "What factors made Marshall different from all those other communities?"

    I will just give a few things that are going to be *my opinion*.

    1. Location, location, location - While yes I realize it was the best suited place for the money, still does not mean people will vote for it just because they don't have a choice...because they do they vote no. Also it didn't seem like the school board wanted to beat the streets. They had people come to them, some times you gotta get off your bums folks.

    2. Tax Increase - Face it with the number of things voted on and passed (i.e. 911 & court house) in the recent past, we are taxed out. It isn't personal.

    3. Not fully planned out - The whole traffic was an issue that needed to be addressed *before* it became a problem not after. They didn't want to do that.

    4. No change in this town for decades - I remember as a kid seeing the population sign of Marshall 12,711...now it is what 13,000+/-. Same people same vote, it isn't rocket science.

    5. The whole do it for the kids thing - Give me a break, I can say for certain my elementary aged child didn't care that he got a new school. In fact on November 4th, he complained that all the teaches were doing was complaining that the bond didn't pass. That as a voter convinced me it wasn't "for the kids".

    6. Bring more business to town - Yeah right, nothing personal but ummm I hear there is a certain group of business owners in this town that has more to do with getting new business here. Don't try to blow smoke up our butts.

    7. It seems that we weren't getting a very good deal - It could just be me, but the bid for the new school seemed kind of high. Now I understand stuff like that is expensive, but it seems that Springfield and Independence got more bang for their buck. I realize there are some costs here, but maybe we need to look into who did their bids.

    8. Poor economy - Yep I know 'it was a great time to borrow', ok well sure it is for the government but not for the people of Marshall who just lost their jobs. Why would they want to raise their taxes on their homes, which they might not be able to pay for?

    That is about all I have for now. I am sure it will spark debate, oh well Mr. Crump asked and I answered.

    -- Posted by Scarpetta on Sun, Nov 8, 2009, at 10:25 PM
    Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
    Thanks Scarpetta!
  • 9. No one voted - Yeah that is just pathetic. Regardless yes or no, people should have voted. It is a shame.

    Sorry just thought of that one. ;)

    -- Posted by Scarpetta on Sun, Nov 8, 2009, at 10:30 PM
  • Seems very funny to me that for all the comments that have been made why is nobody holding the school district accountable for Uh-Humm...providing an education. Most do not know but I did receive a letter from the district about them being on an improvement plan to raise the district's scores. I may not remember the exact figures but I am with a point or two. The state minimum for students scoring "proficient" on reading and math is around 51 and 54 respectively. Our district scored 20 and 21 percent proficient. Yes that does mean that roughly 80% of our students in this district cannot read or add at a "basic" level. Yet they ask for 20 million dollars, give me a break, perform first ask for a bonus later.

    -- Posted by Renegade52 on Mon, Nov 9, 2009, at 9:08 AM
  • Well I think Scarpetta hit it on the head for the most part, other than one thing Marshal is an old town we have a lot of older people that vote every election and most of them do not have kids in the school system and I think the majority of them will vote no because of the tax's. Now I do not know this for a fact it's just my opinion.

    -- Posted by Gal66 on Mon, Nov 9, 2009, at 9:10 AM
  • Renegade, could you please direct me to this information? That is in no way a slam yet a request, because I would like to read this.

    Gal, I will agree with your point. At my polling location, I was the youngest voter there. I would say not another single person was under 65. Of course voters with non school aged children don't want to pay an increase in taxes for schools.

    -- Posted by Scarpetta on Mon, Nov 9, 2009, at 9:21 AM
    Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
  • It was directed at a specific age group, I believe 3-5th grades. I am sure the district would be happy to provide you with a copy of this letter that went out the first week or so of school.

    -- Posted by Renegade52 on Mon, Nov 9, 2009, at 9:27 AM
  • http://dese.mo.gov/planning/profile/rc097129.html This is a comprehensive look at how our district has been performing the last few years.

    -- Posted by Renegade52 on Mon, Nov 9, 2009, at 9:43 AM
  • I would have to disagree with renagade on the issue of the teachers not teaching. I feel that I have raised four children in this school system. Two are in college and two are in high school now. The two I have in college, MU and MO Valley, have a 4.0+ grade point average. The one I have at MU received an award last year for outstanding freshman for her grades. I think that the school system is not the problem. I think that the parents are the problem. I know parents that complain about their childrens education and these are the same parents that make no attempt to attend any parent teacher conferences or school board meetings. I am invested in my childrens education and they have all been A students from the beginning. I know there are some teachers in this system that need to be replaced but the majority of them are good teachers. I am just saying that maybe some parents should take some of the responsibilty for their own children and stop blaming the system.

    -- Posted by volleyballmom on Mon, Nov 9, 2009, at 9:49 AM
  • It is not only the parents and teachers responsibility to educate our children! It needs to be taught first and foremost and it is also most importantly the children's responsibility! They need to learn there are consequences for not studying. This is THEIR job, at least until they turn 18...graduate. Parents, push your children as hard as you can, teachers push your students and all try to draw their intelligence out! However, be able to step back and say....this is YOUR grades, not mine! Did you do your best, are you happy with this?

    -- Posted by nouveaublogger on Mon, Nov 9, 2009, at 10:53 AM
  • Thank you Saline Count Collector for my tax bills...eesh. It really is too bad those can't be due (without penalty) at a different time of year. Might I suggest July.

    I'm sure it's a law or something, but come on...happy freaking holidays...here is a bill. Blah!!

    -- Posted by Scarpetta on Mon, Nov 9, 2009, at 11:59 AM
  • It's bad to depend on the nine year-old WHO Report's POLITICIZED conclusions which lead to the patently ridiculous claim that the US is 37th in medical services when some real FACTS about America's health-care system are available.

    For instance, did you know:

    "(1) Americans have better survival rates from both common and rare cancers than Europeans?

    "(2) Americans have significantly better survival rates from cancer than Canadians?

    "(3) Americans have better access to treatment for chronic diseases than Canadians?

    "(4) Americans have better access to preventive screening for major cancers than Canadians?

    "(5) A marker for inequality of access and quality of health systems, the "health-income gradient" (i.e., that higher incomes achieve better health and lower incomes mean worse health) for adults 16 to 64 years old reveals a more severe disparity in Canada than in the United States?

    "(6) In the United Kingdom and Canada, patients wait far longer than Americans (about twice as long, sometimes even more than a year) to see a specialist, have elective surgery like hip replacements or cataracts, or get radiation treatment for cancer? [Many Brits go all the way to India for faster, competent surgeries.]

    "(7) Sixty percent of Western Europeans say their health systems need "urgent" reform?

    "(8) More than 70 percent of Germans, Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders and U.K. adults say their health systems needs either "fundamental change" or "complete rebuilding"?

    "(9) Although targeted by policymakers, an overwhelming majority of America's leading physicians themselves recently listed the computerized tomography (CT) scan and magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) as the most important medical innovations in improving patient care in the previous decade?

    "(10) By any measure, the vast majority of all the innovation in health care in the world comes out of the U.S. health-care system? "

    Oh yeah, and King Abdullah comes to the USA for his health care. So does Bill Gates, Warren Buffet and tens of thousands of Canadians (paying with their own money).

    There are factual facts and politically-juiced "factoids." Lets concentrated on the former. Then we can make our own sound decisions.

    Citations to support the above are available at http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/feb/18/pardon-the-interruption/

    -- Posted by AF Brat on Mon, Nov 9, 2009, at 1:31 PM
  • Renegade52 Here is something you may want to look at http://www.kansascity.com/115/story/1538862.html

    In my opinion when 64% of the schools in Missouri do not meet the Standard just maybe the test we are using has to high of a standard.

    From what I have seen the test we are using in Missouri is much harder than test's used in most states.

    I have talked to some people that set on school boards in the area and they seem to think we are testing at to high of a level.

    -- Posted by Gal66 on Mon, Nov 9, 2009, at 2:11 PM
  • Cosa Nostra: Sadder still, about 3/4 of those individuals HAD insurance.

    -- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Mon, Nov 9, 2009, at 7:42 PM
  • Cosa Nostra and Kathy,

    Two things about medical bankruptcies:

    1. The dramatic increase in % is caused by the elimination of most "too many credit card" filings due to the recent legal reforms, thus automatically inflating the % from other causes,


    2. Virtually all medical bankruptcies are due to catastrophic illnesses (very serious and/or incurable) which everyone in the debate, EVEN THE REPUBLICANS, are willing to subsidize away -- fixing this problem is cheap by Washington standards and doesn't require nationalization of the entire industry.

    This issue isn't what, it's how.

    -- Posted by AF Brat on Mon, Nov 9, 2009, at 10:15 PM
  • Cosa Nostra,

    Your side plays with the numbers all they want too.

    Cosa Nostra said

    "worry about your fellow man for once and not your own deductible."

    I will worry about my fellow man when they all earn their own keep!!!!!

    No one except for the people that are disabled, retired if they worked and the children need to get anything for nothing in my opinion.

    If the goverment can fix medicade and medicare then I will beleave they can reform health care.

    Does there need to be reform? Hell yes!!!

    But it does not have to include a public option that our goverment would only make worse.

    If the goverment is going to force health care reform on us the tax payers then they better be on the same health care plan period!!!!!!!!

    -- Posted by Gal66 on Tue, Nov 10, 2009, at 7:48 AM
  • AFB writes "[Many Brits go all the way to India for faster, competent surgeries.]" Yes, an increasing number of Americans are going to India for cheaper surgeries. A local consruction company owner could not afford to buy health insurance, because of the astronomical high price, since he had a preexisting heart condition.

    He had open heart surgery in India. The cost: $7800.

    Meanwhile, "King Abdullah (Saudi Arabia) comes to the USA for his health care." Yes for nearly 40 years OPEC has seen to it ,the Royal coffers have been filled with profits from selling oil to the rest of the world so the King can afford to bring a retinue and take over a couple of floors at Duke University Medical Center for six weeks or more.

    -- Posted by upsedaisy on Tue, Nov 10, 2009, at 10:25 AM
  • It's always good to get a second opinion before radical treatment. Sometimes you choose to pass on it.

    "Unmentioned by Mr. Obama [as he praised the AMA's conditional support] was that 20 OTHER PHYSICIAN GROUPS came out against health-care takeover yesterday, which they wrote "will threaten patient access and harm quality." Led by the American College of Surgeons, these doctors argued the Senate's bill "will do little to fix" health care's "underlying problems, and may make them worse." The letter was signed by groups representing neurological and orthopaedic surgeons, urologists, anesthesiologists, gynecological oncologists and others."


    -- Posted by AF Brat on Tue, Nov 10, 2009, at 11:01 AM
  • Scarpetta, yes, it's state law on the property tax due date. Nothing the Saline County Collector can do about that. Every state is a bit different in its approach on property taxes, in the determination of what is taxed (some don't tax personal property), the valuation of the taxed property (not only how, but when), the way the rates are set, and the due dates of the various taxes.

    None of the various schemes seem to be totally fair, in my opinion. Missouri's system is as reasonable as any other, with its share of problems and advantages.

    People who escrow their property taxes by paying a portion every month with their mortgage payment generally don't get as upset about property tax bills as those who do not escrow or have paid off their properites. The loudest squawkers are usually those who escrowed for years, but have recently paid off that mortgage and now have to come up with all that cash all at once.

    Consider yourself lucky that you live away from a major population center. Taxes always seem to be higher near the cities where property values are higher. When I left Marshall some 15 years ago, I sold a nice house with a couple of acres of land and a nice machine shed for less than I had to pay for a house only half the size on a postage-stamp lot - and I was towards the outer suburbs. In the near suburbs, I would have paid twice as much for the same thing.

    -- Posted by TerryM on Tue, Nov 10, 2009, at 1:07 PM
  • We haven't seen comments from "Slater" recently. Anyone know how he is?

    -- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, Nov 10, 2009, at 6:44 PM
  • I am needing help locating the story regarding the ceremony that took place, today, November 10th, re: Judge Dennis A. Rolf receiving the Daniel O'Toole Award. Judge Rolf is also receiving the Permanency Award. These awards were to be presented by Missouri Supreme Court Judge Zel Fischer and Missouri Supreme Court Judge Mary Rhodes Russell at the Saline County Courthouse. Since I am reading the online edition, perhaps I missed it?

    -- Posted by ADVOCATE on Tue, Nov 10, 2009, at 8:18 PM
    Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
    We did not attend the ceremony. My fault. I didn't get a reporter assigned to cover it. We published the news release about the award.


  • The lack of coverage of this honor by the Democrat News does not surprise me, but it is a disappointment.

    -- Posted by ADVOCATE on Tue, Nov 10, 2009, at 9:26 PM
  • Cosa Nostra,

    Like I said we have medicade and medicare if a person can not really afford insurance then they should be able to get either medicade or medicare and in your fathers case I hope he was able to get help.

    If they can not fix these problems then how can they run a new program?

    I understand we need reform but why not try to fix the problems with Medicade and Medicare programes and open up the insurance market to where they have to compete for our business?

    -- Posted by Gal66 on Wed, Nov 11, 2009, at 6:25 AM
  • I can't afford insurance, at $400+/- a month. Now with pre-existing conditions (that last quote was prior to) I doubt an insurance company will touch me. I would gladly carry insurance if it was more affordable.

    As far as public 'assistance' well I make too much money, at times earning your own keep...isn't the best policy or at least that is my feelings about it. Although it is nice to know if you get knocked up you can get all the help you want/need, it is a shame that being responsible and having a job makes someone not worthy for help.

    Convincing the government and the public that it is 'assistance' and not a means for living is the first step. Just look at unemployment, it only lasts so long.

    I know people disagree with me, but I fully support drug testing for 'assistance'. For the public to get 'assistance' they should have to pass the same drug test I do, so I can get a job.

    -- Posted by Scarpetta on Wed, Nov 11, 2009, at 10:17 AM
  • KF, I'm still plugging along, just been sidetracked by other things lately.

    Thanks for inquiring! :)

    -- Posted by Slater on Wed, Nov 11, 2009, at 11:15 AM

    I've read with great interest all the recent commentary about the health care reform issue, and my conclusion is that most of us think very much alike in this case, as stated by Cosa Nostra, Gal66, and Scarpetta for example, when their beliefs are that health care is a human right, and that pain and suffering have been viewed by the greed merchants as a means to fill their coffers.

    Our health, taken individually, is a concrete reality drawing us together, since we all share the same imperative.

    Our differences seem to become magnified as we move toward issues of greater and greater abstraction, or taken another way, the issues in which the general public is less and less directly involved.

    Our health is ever-present and we're reminded of this daily; the elements of political ideology are fluid and reside out in the distant haze where only the politicians are permitted to gather.

    -- Posted by Slater on Wed, Nov 11, 2009, at 11:51 AM
  • Industry lobbying works. In addition to bringing hundreds of billions of coerced new business to the health insurance companies (by forcing the young, the healthy and the frugal to buy unwanted policies), Obamacare is also likely to net billions for the pharmaceutical industry. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/11/pharma-deal-with-white-ho_n_353499.html

    Goody, we're ridding the industry of evil corporate profit mongering! Instead, the government is just going to give taxpayer money directly to these corporations.

    -- Posted by AF Brat on Wed, Nov 11, 2009, at 1:01 PM
  • Cosa Nostra,

    That grey area is one of the things that needs work that is for sure.

    I know there are a lot of people that really cannot afford insurance and that is sad, but I also know there are a lot of people that say they cannot afford it when if they would cut back on some things they do in there life they could.

    Now I am not talking about the people that have pre-existing conditions that limit them, that is a part of this bill that I really like if it will make the insurance companys stop that practice.

    You said If you are not a good financial risk, then you will not get insurance.

    That is not true I have diabetes, am very over weight ( working on that have lost 82lbs since 4/14/09) and a ton of bad family medical history, yes I get my insurance thru work for my son and I and it costs $146 a month.

    When my insurence went up the last time I had to drop my cable back to basic so I could afford it.

    Maybe some people need to learn you can not have everything in life and just maybe insurance is something you need just a little more than that pack of cig's or that 6 pack of beer.

    One pack of cigs a day for 30 days is almosy $135 dollars that would go a long way twords insurance and it would lower your risk if you stopped.

    -- Posted by Gal66 on Wed, Nov 11, 2009, at 1:28 PM
  • Here is a question for all about the school bond issue.

    What is it going to take to get you to vote yes?

    Please be specific don't just say a good location tell where you think a good location is.

    -- Posted by Gal66 on Wed, Nov 11, 2009, at 1:38 PM
  • A better economic climate is what it will take for me to vote "yes" on the school bond issue.

    Read the previous posts regarding health care and health insurance. People of Marshall are having to make choices now on whether to buy medicine or pay rent/house payment.

    I have no doubts that Marshall needs new schools. I hope that soon our community can afford to pass the issue and build the schools. But, I don't think this is the appropriate time.


    -- Posted by missy08 on Wed, Nov 11, 2009, at 2:58 PM
  • What it would take for me to vote yes on a school bond issue. A K-8 school campus. I would consider a K-5 but anything less not a chance.

    I would like to see it become a community effort to raise the money and not have that amount of money being provided via property owners once again. The economic down turn has adversely effected agricultural prices as well as everything else to add yet another burden at this time would not benefit anyone. That being said I would like to see fund raisers going on now until the next time this hits the ballot. Maybe some large contributions might roll in and make a larger school a possibility.

    As I have stated before my reasoning is that if I vote for this now I do not want to be asked again in 5 to 10 years because of poor planning.

    Location has no bearing on my vote, nor who sits on the school board and the past mistakes that have been made.

    -- Posted by litlmissme on Wed, Nov 11, 2009, at 4:32 PM
  • Gal66 you posted this hidden in a larger post but I saw it. [quote] I ... am very over weight (working on that have lost 82 lbs since 4/14/09) [/quote].

    Stupendous accomplishment, my friend.

    -- Posted by AF Brat on Wed, Nov 11, 2009, at 4:33 PM
  • Thank you very much AF Brat

    -- Posted by Gal66 on Wed, Nov 11, 2009, at 4:59 PM
  • Little Miss Me you make a lot of great points. How about we get MME to give some. They got a 30 year 100% Property Tax abatement. They have donated a lot of money to the MBR5. They could step up to the plate now for Marshall School District.

    -- Posted by movaldude on Wed, Nov 11, 2009, at 10:46 PM
  • Hey Gal66: You can get a health insurance policy for less than $175.00 per month? I want to know where. My Blue Cross Blue Shield PPO with $1,000.00 deductable cost me $670.00 per MONTH! How about them numbers. Lets see if I got $175.00 insurance I could get a brand new truck all tricked out! Look out Derick I'm coming to see you with with a brand new Truck to customize!

    -- Posted by movaldude on Wed, Nov 11, 2009, at 10:52 PM
  • My dad and mom draws SSI and my dad gets medicare and my mom got denied said they had to much money coming in house hold now what since does that make. She recently was in Boone Hospital her bill is extremely high she calls to make payment arrangements and they told her that they needed 500.00 a month until bill is paid in full they informed her that they made enough money to make that payment amount and then told my mom they wanted her to write down what bills they pay how much they pay each month and that they would leave enough money for groceries and personnel items. I told my mom it is not their business what they pay who they pay and not to send 500.00 to send 25.00 if they refuse then thats on them, my mom and dad does not have that kind of money, so my mom is upset cause she does not know where she is going to get 500.00 a month to send Boone Hospital.

    -- Posted by nanaof5 on Thu, Nov 12, 2009, at 1:18 PM
  • To my shame, I worked in a medical-dental collection agency one college Summer. Beating on the poor doesn't yield much revenue. I got fired for low production. So I went back to painting dorms.

    That being said, at least years ago, as long as the patient paid something say $100/mo (in today's dollars) most hospitals would leave them alone. As for collection agencies, use caller ID and either don't answer or hang up on them. They are in business to get $$$, not to waste time. So, make them waste time. They'll stop.

    -- Posted by AF Brat on Thu, Nov 12, 2009, at 2:04 PM
  • I also owed Boone Hsp. and was in the same fix - they wanted $100 and I couldn't pay it so I sent $25-$50 a month. They didn't like that so gave the account to a collection agency. Instead of talking or corresponding with the agency, I sent the payments directly to the hospital, minus any late charges that they posted. I never paid the agency directly but if the hsp. sent it to them I didn't care. It took a while but I got it paid.

    -- Posted by Listening In on Thu, Nov 12, 2009, at 3:56 PM
  • Nanaof5,

    I know exactly what you speak of. The exact same situation happened when my mother became ill and was sent to Boone Hospital. Her care was the best, however, the tactics their financial department used was horrendous and not at all in line with their mission statement, nor is any other hospital's! All along making payments that they could afford; after my mother passed...they kept up these tactics with a grieving husband and threatened to put a lien on the house and had actually turned this over to an attorney to do just that! My dad had to file bankruptcy, eventually got rid of his house and auctioned off everything. What a wonderful way for a hard working person and veteran of the armed services to spend his last years!

    p.s. What every person should know and something the majority doesn't know is that institutions, especially (not for profit organizations)have financial insurance policies to cover a percentage of the costs of unpaid patient balances.

    -- Posted by nouveaublogger on Thu, Nov 12, 2009, at 4:24 PM
  • -- Posted by ieatsuperglue on Thu, Nov 12, 2009, at 11:41 PM
  • All this talk of hospital collection tactics.

    What would Jesus do?

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Nov 13, 2009, at 5:57 AM
  • About this collection thing, not just hospitals but any debt. I had an old-line lawyer tell me once to send them money and if it was refused, it was them indicating the loan was paid in full.

    Fact or Fiction? I don't know. It is just what was told me. He was old then. He is ancient now.

    Ask another lawyer if there is any truth to this.

    -- Posted by red dog on Fri, Nov 13, 2009, at 7:54 AM
  • Gal66...I have many concerns regarding your question about voting YES on the next school building issue. Some of which I posted on the article pertaining to it being presented again in April 2010. In the past I had voted YES for the initiative, however these days are presenting with an entirely different economic paradigm.

    #1. Tax collections are down everywhere and I have concerns about our State being able to continue providing the school funding supports presently allocated. It is very likely that services provided by the State, County and Cities will be reduced or our taxes will be increased just to provide basic services.

    #2. The advent of significantly higher fuel prices due to peak oil and no alternative fuel source that can SCALE to meet our needs is a reality. How will we be able to bus our children around when oil gets to $100+ (some estimates are suggesting $185 in the next couple of years)? I realize a new school would be more energy efficient and a real savings would be realized, however if/when things get really bad will the old neighborhood school design be more economical?

    #3. Are bigger centralized schools really better? We have several small rural schools that are providing an excellent learning opportunity and experience to our children. Is their a benefit to a child's social learning and development when they have to interact with older children?

    Finally, in summary I am not against a new school building(s), however I am not convinced that now is the time to enter into any further tax-supported debt. I say that we give it a couple of years to see how things pan out with our economic recovery, jobs and energy issues. What do you other folks think?

    -- Posted by Dave in MidMO on Fri, Nov 13, 2009, at 8:18 AM
  • I bet well all have a story about a hospital/doctor bill. Here's mine, I had to take my daughter to the emergency room in Marshall...no insurance. I started getting the bills and was paying what I could a minimum of $25 but if I had more I sent it. They called and wanted to set me up on a 'payment plan' I told them so far they had no issues with the payments I had been sending. They also wanted me to pay $100/month...I told them they could want all day but I couldn't afford that. They set me up on that, I still sent my minimum of $25. I told them, I knew I owed them money and I had no problem paying it they were just going to have to take it in small payments.

    When I got some extra money (tax time) and was able to pay it off, I called out there and said "I will come write you a check to pay in full now, what kind of deal can I get" they knocked 25% off the balance.

    -- Posted by Scarpetta on Fri, Nov 13, 2009, at 10:12 AM
  • red dog: Although I'm not an attorney, I'm pretty sure that tactic is myth, not fact.

    -- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Fri, Nov 13, 2009, at 1:03 PM
  • Sorry, Red Dog. This is fiction. I believe Gumby,the recent law school graduate would agree! GH

    -- Posted by Gray hair on Fri, Nov 13, 2009, at 6:53 PM
  • Here is a good one at Missouri Valley Physicians I had my mother in law take my daughter there for a 4 pm appointment she had strep throat. I had to stop at the sitter and get my youngest and arrived at 4:05 pm. When I got there I was told that the doctor had already gone and she could not be seen. The reason: my mother in law did not have any cash, or a check to pay the co-pay.

    All the while I had a credit on another account they could have taken the co pay from, which they did not pay back to me I had to use it up to get the credit back from a billing mistake on their part.

    -- Posted by litlmissme on Fri, Nov 13, 2009, at 7:09 PM
  • Actually, Grey Hair, IIRC (I haven't taught first-year Contracts in a decade) the technique DOES work if the debt is contested and you are very precise about how you set up the "accord and satisfaction." The law has become blurry enough on this point that advice of a knowledgeable local lawyer will probably be needed to pull it off successfully.

    -- Posted by AF Brat on Fri, Nov 13, 2009, at 9:12 PM
  • She is fine, News Across. She is all grown up now and has kids of her own. It has been over 12 years ago when that happened. Of coarse I switched to a different doctor since then.

    I am all for having nationalized medicine. I have no problem voting for something that our whole country would benefit from.

    I know that alot of folks are opposed to it but I am opposed to folks paying through the nose for health care.

    My mother struggles each month to pay for her meds.,pay her insurance premiums, and to buy food. It is such a shame that people who have worked hard all their lives find themselves in the "golden years" struggling to pay bills because of medical concerns.

    I would vote yes in a heartbeat!

    -- Posted by litlmissme on Sun, Nov 15, 2009, at 6:03 PM
  • littlemissme...

    Did you know its illegal and malpractice for a physician to turn away an established patient, even if you have no cash. There is a process the physician must follow to fire a patient, they cannot just turn you away. Their contracts with Medicaid and most other carriers forbids it and so does the law of medicine. Especially when the patient is sick. What I have most to complain about medicine is that the medical consumer knows more about the warranty on their car than the care they are entitled to. Wise up medical consumers, its time to step up, wise up and get whats rightfully yours, healthcare.

    -- Posted by rudy486 on Sun, Nov 15, 2009, at 6:26 PM
  • I couldn't agree more! I would much rather spend my tax payer dollars on health care reform than on killing someone in a foreign land. Don't spend billions of tax payer dollars over there, spend it here in the good ole USA. I'm tired of the USA being the world police, send our troops back home and lets take care of our own problems here on our soil.

    -- Posted by DAgates on Sun, Nov 15, 2009, at 10:02 PM
  • I wonder how many billions of dollars has been added to our national debt to provide socialized medicine to the citizens of Iraq, and Afghanistan? We can pay for it in other countries, but not here?

    I did a cursory search to get some idea as to the cost but did not find much. I recall various very expensive health projects on our dime, especially during the years of the Bush Administration, but because of insufficient memory I can not cite them. I did find one case where we frittered away many millions without much bang for our buck. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/30/world/middleeast/30reconstruct.html

    We can promote socialized medicine for the people of the countries that we occupy, but not for the citizens of our own country, who are paying for the foreigner's socialized medicine? Are we crazy to accept that sort of convoluted thinking from our elected representatives?

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Nov 15, 2009, at 11:42 PM
  • One of the things that I recall are U.S. armed services medical personell, and private medical contractors providing free clinical care to Iraqi citizens. When we invaded, and all hell broke loose for the Iraqis, their professional classes, including many Doctors, (those who could afford it) fled the country. Many still have not returned. This exacerbated the problem, and made it necessary for our medical folk to step in. I am not condemning these acts of mercy, but it would be nice if we could show as much mercy to our own citizens.

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Nov 16, 2009, at 12:03 AM
  • You know I'm not concerned about Immigrants using the health care system as much as I don't want people walking around sick because they are forbidden from going to a clinic.

    Penny wise and Pound Foolish

    -- Posted by movaldude on Mon, Nov 16, 2009, at 8:40 PM
  • Movaldude, I could not tell if your post was in reference to mine that proceeded it. If it was I did not write clearly enough.

    I was not referring to health care for immigrants. I was referring to the irony of the fact that we have been for many years providing socialized medicine to citizens of other countries while they are within their own borders. It costs we the taxpayers billions of dollars. The same people that have patriotically promoted that outlay of our dollars, stubbornly resist any sort of socialized medicine for their own fellow citizens.

    I find it patently absurd that they ask us to pay for socialized medicine for Iraqis, but refuse to let us pay for it for ourselves.

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 1:12 AM
  • Robert Reich on real health care reform. Read, and learn. http://robertreich.blogspot.com/2009/11/open-letter-to-harry-reid.html

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 1:49 AM
  • Watch out women. Government health care RATIONING has arrived for you.

    "Women in their 40s should stop routinely having annual mammograms and older women should cut back to one scheduled exam every other year, an influential federal task force has concluded, challenging the use of one of the most common medical tests. * * *

    "[The] American Cancer Society, the American College of Radiology and other experts condemned the change, saying the benefits of routine mammography have been clearly demonstrated and play a key role in reducing the number of mastectomies and the death toll from one of the most common cancers. * * *

    "Some questioned whether the new guidelines were designed more to control spending than to improve health. In addition to prompting fewer doctors to recommend mammograms to their patients, they worried that the move would prompt insurers to deny coverage for many mammograms. * * *

    "The new recommendations took on added significance because under health-care reform legislation pending in Congress, the conclusions of the 16-member task force would set standards for what preventive services insurance plans would be required to cover at little or no cost. * * * "


    -- Posted by AF Brat on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 10:00 AM
  • AFbrat...that was my thought exactly when I saw this on the news last night. They're softening us up for Obamacare.

    How ridiculous to stop something that has no doubt saved many lives.

    -- Posted by outsider on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 12:25 PM
  • And it has just begun.... next will be semi-annual ob-gyn checks, reduced prenatal care, changes in the recommendations for colonoscopies, etc. etc. etc. And those of us who have private insurance, those companies will adhere to these changes. What's the benefits of these changes?: lower the average life span thus reducing social security payout, medicare, retirement.....etc. etc. etc.

    -- Posted by Air Force Wife on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 3:48 PM
  • For anyone wanting to know more about the origin of the health maintenance organization concept (HMO):


    This curtailment of specialized testing isn't anything new by any means. The intent under the new health care reform effort primarily is to keep physicians from ordering unnecessary tests just for the purpose of collecting more money.

    Obviously, anyone with a predisposition to catastrophic illnesses will have the opportunity for more frequent tests.

    -- Posted by Slater on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 4:13 PM
  • "A tip of the hat" to the Sedalia School District. Their JROTC program on Nov 8-9 , at the National Championship competition in Molena,Ga., came home # 1 team , #1 male individual , #3 female individual. This was done against 63 other teams. They also took first place in four in-state competitions before going to Georgia. With a program like this no wonder the Sedalia taxpayers voted to build a new school. { oh sorry we don't have a program to build leaders}

    -- Posted by US male on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 4:57 PM
  • Someone posted: "Obviously, anyone with a predisposition to catastrophic illnesses will have the opportunity for more frequent tests."

    "Obviously" -- prove it.

    Even if that were so, you are still left hoping that what YOU think is a predisposition is the same as what some faceless BUREAUCRAT thinks is a predisposition. The odds are against your hope proving to be accurate.

    -- Posted by AF Brat on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 6:24 PM
  • I'm pleased we have so many "experts" who know precisely how the insurance reform will play out.

    Until it's in black and white to the contrary, I'll continue to be optimistic.

    -- Posted by Slater on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 8:48 PM
  • "Obviously" -- prove it.

    The burden of proof isn't on me. You're the one with all the answers.

    Your attempts to turn someone's speculation into fact doesn't impress me one bit.

    -- Posted by Slater on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 9:31 PM
  • Slater - Welcome back! I've been concerned about your lengthy absence and hope all is well with you.

    -- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 9:45 PM
  • Hi KF - Thanks for the welccome! I've been occupied by a few updating projects around the house, still ongoing. Oh! What fun we're having! :)

    -- Posted by Slater on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 10:47 PM
  • ND - A more cynical person than I could exist, but some days I wonder. :)

    I agree that the future looks pretty bleak, but I'm doing my very best to keep the faith, and that aint easy when we learn about all the Max Baucuses in line and the insurance lobbyists drop the piles of cash into their outstretched hands.

    A single-payer system would be best, ideally at least, except the human factor keeps getting in the way.

    Sorry about stepping on your toes. :)

    -- Posted by Slater on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 11:04 PM
  • This'n will stir you up. If not be sure to check your pulse after reading it. http://www.regressiveantidote.net/Articles/Twenty_Years_From_Now,_You_Will_Lie_T...

    The thought occurs to me that though the right wing of American politics are expressing with every other breath that we must cut spending to save the material futures of our grandchildren, they never ever say that we should also rescind the tax breaks given to the richest of us over the last several administrations. That would also help preserve the futures of our grand children. Seems like the two efforts together would be more likely to assure a decent future for generations to come, but what do I know.

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Nov 17, 2009, at 11:58 PM
  • It's not just the right wing

    -- Posted by OldOwlFan on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, at 6:19 AM
  • I was looking at the board on Mosports and came across a topic that MHS will be getting a new Head Football Coach.


    Does anyone know if this is true?

    -- Posted by OldOwlFan on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, at 6:22 AM
    Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
    Neither Coach Thomas nor school district officials have made an announcement that we're aware of.
  • You got that right Oldowlfan. Both parties are owned lock, stock, and barrel by the Corporatocracy.

    The reason I stated the "right wing" is because every social program that comes up that would benefit the common people, they moan loudly "oh it will ruin the children"s future". At the moment I can't think of much that they strongly support beyond cutting taxes. To consider cutting taxes in the current situation is foolhardy. We must do more to slow our budgetary free fall, raising the taxes on the rich back to the levels occuring in the 1970s would help. I doubt that the rich would starve from what would be really nothing more than an inconvenience to them. So why does that never get mentioned a remedy by the right wing (nor many on the faux left) these days?

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, at 10:20 AM
  • Response by Eric Crump/Editor:

    Neither Coach Thomas nor school district officials have made an announcement that we're aware of.

    Well Mr. Crump maybe a little investigative journalism is needed or do you wait for the stories to come to you?

    -- Posted by OldOwlFan on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, at 10:32 AM
    Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
    I will inquire.
  • Taking the reductionist approach to identifying what ails America, here's my answer:


    -- Posted by Slater on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, at 11:32 AM
  • It is true....Coach Thomas was released from his head coaching position last week. The new Athletic Director is getting pretty good at letting coaches go. It sure would be nice to see the Athletic Director coach some of these student athletes and see how successful he is. Good luck Coach Thomas!!!!!!!!!!

    -- Posted by kobe on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, at 12:50 PM
    Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
    School officials have so far declined to comment because this is a personnel matter. The school board meets Nov. 24. If any action has been taken it is likely the board will consider it and the result will be announced soon after the meeting.
  • Better yet....maybe the Athletic Director should be released from his duties since he scheduled our football team to play Jeff. City Helias for Homecoming this year. WOW, What was he thinking??

    -- Posted by kobe on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, at 12:53 PM
  • So kobe...would it have been ok to play Helias any other friday, just not homecoming? What's your point?

    -- Posted by momaster on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, at 1:14 PM
  • Hey NB,

    Well, the local weather guy showed a video of a big meteor over Utah last night, believed to be from the Leonid shower. Been out on the garage roof having a gander? I asked the cat to wake me at 3 (which she usually does anyway), but she snoozed right on through.

    Hope you're over the broken feet and pneumonia now. When you get to be my age, you can get a pneumonia shot. :) The last time I saw my quack he offered me one, and I thanked him for the offer but declined, saying I didn't want a case of pneumonia.

    Good health to you and your family!

    -- Posted by Slater on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, at 6:44 PM
  • momaster ... you obviously aren't a sports fan or you would understand this one, it's a no-brainer.

    homecoming is a game that you should schedule a game against a team that you should be able to get an easy win, or at least can hold your own against ... it makes for a better experience and atmosphere for the current students and the alumni. have you never been to a homecoming game? this is something that every high school and college team in the country has tried to do ever since the sport was invented. who wants to get blown out in a homecoming game? doesn't look good, and isn't smart.

    marshall scheduling helias this year for homecoming was pretty stoooooopid, there's no debating that one. my only reasoning on this one is that perhaps the conference scheduled it for them and forced it upon them ... otherwise, it's a pretty stooooopid move.

    kind of like mizzou scheduling texas for homecoming this season, and oklahoma for homecoming next year. makes NO sense.

    not impressed by the current athletic director at MHS. so many coaches leaving ... maybe they schould look at the AD?

    this school has not been the same since cecil naylor, rest in peace, left the program. roger bell was a good man and a good coach but didn't like what he saw and moved to kc. can't say i blame him.

    paul thomas is also a good man, very dedicated, does the best with what he has ... he can't say it, but i can - this isn't exactly the motherload of talent in this area anymore because there are so many options and interests for kids these days, and kids who aren't willing to work for the goal. too many parents involved who think they know what's best for everyone involved and especially their own child, who they see as the next kurtis gregory. wake up parents! it's not all about you.

    too bad the AD and school board have decided to get rid of thomas. I pity the next coach, coming into this administration and situation.

    i long for the nights of going out to watch henry mason, bernard laster, tim brown, jeff moore, jim heinzler, greg miles, chris jensen, charles quint, david mccracken, lance tobin, mark meschede ... those days are long gone and a time in MHS football history that will never be replaced and never reproduced in today's world.

    too bad the current AD and administration doesn't even have a clue who those people are.

    -- Posted by aikman8 on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, at 8:45 PM
  • aikman8, maybe you could throw in a little blah, blah, blah about sportsmanship and love of the game, etc., etc., while you're describing what coaches should do.

    All this time, I thought sports should teach something to young men and women - I see that it does, but as you describe it, it's not something I'd like my kids to learn.

    -- Posted by Miss Marple on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, at 9:39 PM
  • ND - I suppose his "personal" reason had to do with getting his insurance payoff money laundered.

    -- Posted by Slater on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, at 10:24 PM
  • aikman8,

    The last time this subject came up you got on everyone for posting comments and not putting their name on what they had to say well looks like the pot calling the kettle black to me!!!

    Got the guts?

    -- Posted by Gal66 on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, at 10:47 PM
  • Oh darn!!! I just learned that I missed out on the Palin book signing! :(

    -- Posted by Slater on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, at 10:51 PM
  • ND - I'm glad we're both relieved that we didn't offend one another. :)

    KF was talking about shedding tears, sometimes for unknown reasons, and sometimes for unknown reasons my Irish sort of gets a bit out of control. :)

    -- Posted by Slater on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, at 11:14 PM
  • aikman8, did you go through Marshall High School or have children there? I don't think there's a lack of talent in the area, I think there are coaches that worry more about winning than developing the talent that is here. There are a whole lot of kids out there practicing everyday that rarely get more than a few minutes of play time. Is it a lack of talent or a lack of money & the right name?

    -- Posted by tcn on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, at 11:30 PM
  • Evenin' folks.

    A belated your welcome NanaDot.

    Lotsa good progressive stuff at this web site: http://classic.buzzflash.com/

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, at 11:32 PM
  • For instance, I found this article regarding biotech crops on Buzzflash.

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, at 11:58 PM
  • This is sort of a nod to the long vanished Third Child. Where did he go, and why? Did the Government sweep him up, and deposit him on some wretched island to despair in solitude the rest of his life?

    At any rate, the following link will provide any who care to click it with intrigue, empire building, and most of all a good dose of paranoia. Truth, or fiction? You decide. http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=ROZ20091118&arti...

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Nov 19, 2009, at 12:21 AM
  • The article regarding biotech crops...sorry, the link didn't post before. http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2009/11/17-4

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Nov 19, 2009, at 12:25 AM
  • aikman...I am a sportsfan and I understand this one. We only have so many home games each year. We also have to schedule our games when the OTHER TEAM isn't already scheduled. Then there is trying to work around other athletic and scholastic schedules to have the most students free for homecoming activities. ALso, when you make the comment "this isn't the motherload of talent" maybe you should be more specific, I assume you mean football talent because from what I see MHS does seem to have talent in other areas.

    -- Posted by momaster on Thu, Nov 19, 2009, at 8:45 AM
  • I think all of our area school need to be aware of this.


    -- Posted by Oldblackcat on Thu, Nov 19, 2009, at 9:22 AM
    Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
    Thanks for posting this. Craig Noah, Marshall schools superintendent, said the district was notified about the incident in Sedalia but there have been no problems here.
  • OKR - The biotech crops article is pretty interesting! Although I didn't grow up on a farm and don't know a lot about that industry, I do know the effects of continued chemical usage, as evidenced by the 6,000-square-mile dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico around the mouth of the Mississippi River due to runoff into rivers feeding the Mississippi.

    The talk about escalating prices for pest/weed resistant seed, coupled with the forced (I'm concluding) increase in the use of herbicides and pesticides reinforces my belief that greed merchants are institutional.

    I'd be interested in hearing the thoughts of some area farmers around Saline County on this subject.

    -- Posted by Slater on Thu, Nov 19, 2009, at 9:46 AM
  • Well momaster, I believe aikman8 said it plain as day, so there is no sense in me elaborating on what i said earlier. Just FYI - the conference did not scheduled the high school games that is the responsibility of the AD. My personal opinion is that we should not play Helias at all. We are not the same Class team/school as they are, so I believe we should stick to schools our size.

    -- Posted by kobe on Thu, Nov 19, 2009, at 10:22 AM
  • kobe you are wrong Helias is a class 4 school as are we.

    If you think we should only play schools in our own class the we should not play Moberly, Kirksville, Fulton and Chillicothe right?

    -- Posted by Gal66 on Thu, Nov 19, 2009, at 10:27 AM
  • MHS administration has lost their minds. You have an A.D Scott Latham who is soley over Athletics with no help from anyone and making decisions he has no business making. He will tell you just ask him. He knows it all, seriously, job has gone to his head! He has never taught high school students or coached high school students. So this is the same man who is over all coaches/sports at MHS and reports directly to Noah. I see a huge problem, one that seems to be getting worse by the week. I heard from a middle school teacher that coach Thomas was released from his contract on Friday by non other than Latham but the crazy thing is, who is Latham? He doesnt have that kind of authority, but I guess he thinks he does and its going to get MHS in trouble yet. Someone needs to let him know he doesnt. The board meeting is Tuesday and my understanding is board has to vote. I too would hate to see Coach Thomas leave, he is passioinate about the sport and everytime I have been around him you hear him encouraging his players. He chews their butts but manages to love them in the process. It floored me when I overheard him say to a player after a game I love you, he wasnt quiet about it either and the kid said I love you too coach. He sure cares about his players. You play the game with what you have and he does just that and seems to challenge them to be not only good football players but great people/citizens. So in my opinion this would be a mistake. Can we attend the board meeting to support him? I think he would have a lot of folks turn out. It would be great if we could be there.

    -- Posted by dj61 on Thu, Nov 19, 2009, at 12:38 PM
    Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
    Board of Education meetings are open to the public. As I understand it, anyone wishing to address the board needs to contact district officials in advance and ask to be put on the agenda.
  • Call me crazy but I thought HIRING and FIRING were the responsibilities of the Board of Education. So, what i'm getting from this is that the A.D. overstepped his boundries and did something without the Boards knowledge. Hmmm...things like that get school districts in BIG BIG LEGAL TROUBLE! Seem to recall this same A.D. doing this to the swim coach or golf coach...Maybe the Marshall Board of Education ought to keep the football coach and work fast on getting rid of someone else that is going to cause them a HUGE LAWSUIT someday!!!!

    -- Posted by freckles on Thu, Nov 19, 2009, at 2:17 PM
    Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
    You're assuming the rumors are true. I'd suggest everyone wait to see whether the school board is presented with personnel issues and if so, whether the fate of Coach Thomas is among them. The resolution of the matter will be reported in due time.
  • I wish we were as concerned about whether the kids can actually read and write as we are about a high school football program.

    -- Posted by hunterfisher on Thu, Nov 19, 2009, at 3:20 PM
  • Can someone please explain to me what is happening with the kids wrestling club? I am hearing all kind of rumors!

    -- Posted by mofireman on Thu, Nov 19, 2009, at 3:33 PM
  • Gal66 in all fairness I don't believe it is accurate to say that I am wrong. Go to MSHSAA and you will find that Marshall is Class 3 in most sports. We are Class 4 in football and basketball only; we are even in Class 2 for some sports. I don't believe it is accurate to say we are a Class 4 school when the majority of our sports are Class 3 and below, which is also the case for the majority of the teams in our conference which includes Kirksville and Fulton, not Helias (they were taken out of our conference for a reason).

    -- Posted by kobe on Thu, Nov 19, 2009, at 4:39 PM
  • I do believe this is the end of the 10th season for this coach. The opening of this year was a resounding 45 Wins and 49 Losses. Add this year to this and we are still under the 50% ratio. Who reading this blog or working in this world can function at less than 50%. Would any of your bosses, companies, or even families tolerate your function to them at less than 50% for a 10 year period? No, I do not think so.

    If any of you think that athletes are born with the ability or not to be good or bad, then so be it. Stop reading this now.

    My opinion is that it takes basic fundamentals, hard work, and dedication from an athlete, a worker, a co-worker, a mother, a father, (a coach)or anyone that will bring success to that individual, company, or family, (school). And not necessarily in that order. I believe that family is first in all of the catagories I just spoke of.

    In my opinion, this is not a case of a good person or a bad person. It is about success. I do not feel that too young, too inexperienced, or whatever is an excuse. Take a look at the Chillicothe program and the success rate of 75% over 12 or 13 years and maybe even a little more than that.

    Phil Willard is retired from administration, coaching football, knows where and what these kids are doing day in and day out. If you were at this game you could see he had more kids on the sideline than we had on our entire team. He has the same programs to compete (a smaller school)with as does Marshall. Thus, I do not see that as an issue. He has success and instills that in his program and his young people.

    You cannot blame anything on the competition between sports. That is totally wrong, in my opinion. There is nothing wrong with options for our children. If you are a good coach and show them success then they will follow. We have spent the last 10 years in a fog as far as football at Marshall High School is concerned. All I can see is the print and the quotes. You look them up, you read them, and you decide for yourself.

    You look also at the record, this is the worst 10 years of Marshall High School Football. From hearing that the coach does not want to bring his team on the field before the National Anthem (because it might break their concentration) to not allowing them an interview (because they might say something wrong). For most of the young people this will be the only, "Firday Night Lights" they will ever see. Are they all scholars, no, are they all going to college, no, are they all going to succeed, I hope so. But we know that is not in the cards for all of us. Do they get that, "Few minutes of Glory", I certainly hope so.

    Let the cards fall where they do. It is time for a change. GO OWLS!

    -- Posted by MyObservation on Thu, Nov 19, 2009, at 9:25 PM
  • I've been wondering about the amount of new industry that county "development" bunch has recruited to the area, also. I'm not surprised the number is a big zero.

    Organizations of that type can be not much more than parasites, feeding off taxpayer money.

    It's the American way!!

    -- Posted by Slater on Thu, Nov 19, 2009, at 10:48 PM
  • NanaD,

    Point well taken, but the development corporation is not a county run entity. They do recieve some funding from the county. I do not know if any of the cities contribute, but the rest is private and maybe some grants. I, as you, have often wondered how much they really do. They do have some pretty good salaries though.

    -- Posted by MyObservation on Fri, Nov 20, 2009, at 5:31 AM
  • While I agree that the Marshall-Saline Developement Corp is useless to an extent. I am also under the understanding that a certain group of 'local business owners' (some larger companies not just small mom and pop shops) have a lot to do with the lack of new business.

    Of course a local big employer won't want competition. With out competition you lack economic growth. Joe Blow can keep paying low end wages as long as Jon Doe doesn't want to put another company doing the same thing and paying better. Then Joe has a say as to if Jon can start a business here. I have to wonder how many shoulda, coulda and woulda business prospects failed because of that group alone.

    -- Posted by Scarpetta on Fri, Nov 20, 2009, at 7:34 AM
  • Scarpetta I agree with you. I don't know what real benefit the Marshall-Saline Development group serves. Has there been any real, concrete development in Marshall in the last couple of years? No. But Sedalia gets development...restaurants, businesses,etc. I'd say get rid of the Mar-Saline devlopment group.

    -- Posted by momaster on Fri, Nov 20, 2009, at 8:43 AM
  • Cheetah..yes the coaching and activity sponsorships in MPS are by contract.

    -- Posted by momaster on Fri, Nov 20, 2009, at 8:44 AM
  • Nannadot...when you say get rid of the extra-curricular programs do you also mean debate, forensics,FFA,band, orchestra,knowledge bowl, choir, drama...? Those are all extra-curricular.

    -- Posted by momaster on Fri, Nov 20, 2009, at 8:51 AM
  • Coaches and other sponsors do have contracts. Mr. Latham can only recommend that someone not be renewed. The board has the final say (and it sounds like it's going to be Tuesday night). If you want to see Coach Thomas retained, call a board member.

    Hopefully, the decision to let coaches go is based upon more than wins and losses at the high school level. I hope that many voices, administrators, parents and students are heard on the matter.

    And those of you that think that sports are still king need to attend a game or two. Participation is down from what it used to be. Some teams have problems just having enough players for freshmen, junior varsity and varsity competition. There's a core of students who play two or three sports each, and there's a growing number of students who do no extracurricular activities at all.

    -- Posted by raysfan on Fri, Nov 20, 2009, at 9:09 AM
  • MyObservation,

    Who on this site has to depend on 16,17 & 18 year old kids to keep their jobs do you?

    Did you ever give any thought to the fact that when Naylor was coaching and we had a winning program we was in a lower class yes we are still playing the same schools but they have all gotten larger getting closer to the same number of students as us.


    I thought this was a football topic.


    I know you base stories on fact but I can tell you this did happen it is not a rumor.

    -- Posted by Gal66 on Fri, Nov 20, 2009, at 9:19 AM
  • But as commish says it may not happen because the board has the final say

    -- Posted by Gal66 on Fri, Nov 20, 2009, at 9:26 AM
  • Smokin' Cheetah I agree 100% with everything you posted you said it way better than I could have.

    -- Posted by Gal66 on Fri, Nov 20, 2009, at 10:27 AM
  • What disturbs me about the entire controversy regarding this coach is that the only source of "information," other than the policy information posted by Smokin' Cheetah and the factual information about the school board from Eric Crump, is some unofficial blog that's just a bunch of uninformed opinions, with a little gossip, rumor-mongering and innuendo thrown in for flavor.

    -- Posted by Miss Marple on Fri, Nov 20, 2009, at 12:58 PM
  • Will be interesting to see who and how many show up for the board meeting Tuesday.

    -- Posted by freckles on Fri, Nov 20, 2009, at 3:28 PM
  • Eric,

    I know you base stories on fact but I can tell you this did happen it is not a rumor.

    Posted by Gal66

    Coaches and other sponsors do have contracts. Mr. Latham can only recommend that someone not be renewed. The board has the final say (and it sounds like it's going to be Tuesday night). If you want to see Coach Thomas retained, call a board member.

    Posted by commish

    My question is...if this is fact(which i think everyone will hear it is after the board meeting) would it be against policy for the Athletic Director to take it upon himself to let a coach go WITHOUT a board vote? It is my assumption that the A.D. can RECOMMEND not to rehire but can he tell a coach.."Sorry but i'm firing you from your coaching position". I mean if that is the case and I did say IF, then why do they even need a BOARD OF EDUCATION? As I commented earlier, it will be interesting to see if anyone shows up Tuesday.

    -- Posted by freckles on Fri, Nov 20, 2009, at 3:50 PM
  • My I ask why my post was removed?

    -- Posted by anotherjustme on Fri, Nov 20, 2009, at 5:29 PM
    Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
    Inappropriate length and language.
  • May I repost it with out the adult language if I post it in 3 or 4 parts?

    -- Posted by anotherjustme on Fri, Nov 20, 2009, at 5:41 PM
    Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
    Yes. Thanks for taking the time to revise.
  • Hey you hootOwls!

    -- Posted by Slater on Fri, Nov 20, 2009, at 11:47 PM
  • I have a question regarding all the break in's we are having in marshall why are we talking about minor things like a 18 year old driving on a revoked licensee and not talking about all these break in's that are occurring. We need to catch these people and but a end to it because its hurting the business that they are doing this to. They have caught some but not all can you do a story regarding this?

    -- Posted by marshallfan07 on Sat, Nov 21, 2009, at 10:07 AM
    Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
    Will do.
  • First of a 4 part post

    This might not be as much about football as it appears to be. Marshall has been trying to get a bond issue passed for about the last ten years and it hasn't happened. Sometime back, when they needed a new superintendent, they hired this guy Dr. Noah. One of the things that was said about him pretty much up front was that he was some kind of expert on bond issues for schools, (I think he may have did his doctorial thesis on them but im not sure about this).

    I have heard a number of times from different people, current and past school board members and past and current administrators inMarshall and out side of Marshall who have been involved in both successful and unsuccessful bond issues that winning sports teams are important psychologically. If the teams are winning and doing well then people feel good about the community and the schools and the administration and they are more likely to feel good about passing bond issues to make the schools better. This may not be as true for the big districts like Kansas City or St. Louis where they have multiple schools competing against other in district schools, as it is for the small to mid-sized district where they compete against schools from other towns. I am also not saying that this is even a very big factor in whether these things pass or fail but if it accounts for, say, a 5% swing either way in the vote and you got a vote that is running close as this last one in Marshall did then 5% either way could make a difference in the outcome. There are major factors in determining the outcome of an issue and there are minor factors in determining the outcome of an issue but they all add up to whether it passes or fails, I would think an expert on bond issues would know this and try to address all that he can and minimize everything else.

    -- Posted by anotherjustme on Sat, Nov 21, 2009, at 10:35 AM
  • Second part of a 4 part post

    Shortly after Dr. Noah got to Marshall, he and the AD started a push to reduce the number of fund raisers from the schools. There were many, many fundraisers and really I think a lot of businesses and people in the community were growing weary of all the kids selling all the high priced crap or just asking for money for every little thing. When people are paying school taxes and paying to get into games and events at the school and getting accosted every week buy school fundraisers and now we are asked to take another tax increase in this bond issue......, here again psychologically, they may be very put out. Fundraisers may only swing 2% or 3% of the vote but it adds up.

    One of the biggest fundraisers at the high school comes from the junior class to raise money for prom. Im not sure of the details but I have heard that the junior class was told they would have to find a different way of raising money than asking the community for it. So they made arraignments with the booster club to raise the money through them to cover prom, but they would not be able to get all the money they needed, so they would have to charge for prom to make up the amount they were short, they guessed that it would be between $10 and $20 that they would have to charge and that is the path they went down. Now that this last bond issue failed and it has been decided to put the issue on the April ballot I hear the junior class has been told by Dr. Noah that they cannot charge for prom because that might upset people and they don't want to do that at that time because of the bond issue. For those that don't know Marshall doesn't charge for prom, I don't know that they ever have and this is a very small issue that could cause a very small percentage of people to vote against the bond issue and as punitive as that may sound there are people who will vote like that and again on an issue that was decided by about 5% of the vote the last time it was voted on. A percent here and a percent there and 2% in another place will all add up.

    -- Posted by anotherjustme on Sat, Nov 21, 2009, at 10:38 AM
  • Third post of a 4 part post

    You can argue all you want about what kind of a man coach Thomas is, and how good a coach he is, and whether he has any talent to work with, and what meddlesome people parents are, how tough the schedule was, and how the games were close and in some cases they were played closer than what the outcome might indicate, and in most cases the arguments all have some merit. But the bottom line is that if you look at the wins and loses over the past few years Marshall has not been very successful. I like Mr. Thomas and I hope he stays around Marshall and teaches but if im right about this being a decision based on swinging a vote a few percentage points to pass a bond issue then maybe based on the record of the last few years it is time for a new football coach and maybe Dr. Noah is counting on the prospect of a new coach to sway some votes his way in April. And once again a percent here and a percent there and 2% in another place will add up.

    There has not been a public announcement made by the school yet so that will lead to a lot of speculation in a lot of places by a lot of people and this will work to the school boards and the administrations advantage as they will be able to prepare themselves for the ********* that is undoubtedly coming, and it seems that a number of school board members are denying any knowledge what so ever of any of this and I believe that the people involved are trying to insulate themselves as much as they can from this and if there is a lot of negative reaction from the public over this I believe that the Ad will loose his job and quite possibly the high school principal, then depending upon the level of public outrage Dr. Noah himself will be gone, but I think they are gambling that it wont go that far, and it probably wont.

    -- Posted by anotherjustme on Sat, Nov 21, 2009, at 10:40 AM
  • 4th part of a 5 part post

    Apart from the fact that we were needing a superintendent at the time I believe this one was chosen primarily for his expertise in school bond issues and that is the mandate he was charged with, getting a bond issue passed in Marshall, and he was given a tremendous amount of leeway in how to go about it. Simply put this decision has been made, I don't think coach Thomas will be coach Thomas next year, whether or not he will even be employed in Marshall remains to be seen. And if Dr. Noah was in fact hired to run the schools AND get a bond issue passed and he feels this is the way to go about it then he is doing his job, what he was hired to do, I can respect that, and if he is wrong he will lose his job and school board members will be voted out and things will change. This is how it is supposed to work and they all know it.

    I think that coach Thomas's removal has been in the works for a long time but loose drunken lips at a Missouri valley football game and regular briefings at Bud's Bar about school business, and personnel issues, kind of slowed things up. I also believe that if the AD and the high school principal lose their jobs you might very well see one or two of Dr. Noah's buddies in one or both of those positions. I say that because John Angelhow and Jim Hienzler both have wanted the Ad job and Angelhow was the assistant principle at the high school and he was made principal at an elementary school and Hienzler was made the assistant principal at the high school so if the principal job and the AD jobs were open both of these guys would be qualified to fill them and when you are buddies with the guy that makes those decisions and recommendations to the board it could happen pretty easily especially if that guy has just delivered a passed bond issue to the board he will pretty much be gold and denied very little, seems to be the way such things work.

    -- Posted by anotherjustme on Sat, Nov 21, 2009, at 10:42 AM
  • And the rest of the story

    Now let me say I am not a school district insider, I support the schools and the kids in the district and I know some insiders and I listen to what people say and I watch what they do and when I put together everything I see and hear this is what I come up with. I may be right or I may be wrong, I don't know, we will have to see.

    Now to stir the pot a little, this Jim Hienzler I speak of is the same Jim Hienzler that had an altercation at a state coaches seminar in Columbia a few years ago and beatup one of his co-workers and fellow coaches. But in all fairness to him and by all accounts he is doing a very good job so far as vice principle.

    -- Posted by anotherjustme on Sat, Nov 21, 2009, at 10:44 AM
  • As we all now know, eating is dangerous.

    First, they told us to avoid eggs. Too much colesterol. Then beef. Clogs the arteries and causes cancer. Then, all meat was suspect. Be wary, they said. A few years ago, a campaign to make us fear corn was launched. And now I see an article that says soy is everywhere and it's probably going to kill us! www.alternet.org

    So is it nuts and berries or nothing? Is spinach safe? I doubt it. Probably laced with ecoli. I'm beginning to wonder if "they" are trying to starve us. Another thought: What do "they" eat if not meat or vegetables?

    -- Posted by taxedpayer on Sat, Nov 21, 2009, at 11:20 AM
  • NannaDOt...if music and drama, etc. are part of the curriculum why do they fall under the administration of the activities director? Why are they covered in the activities handbook? Just read it. And don't tell me they don't because I know for a fact that they do. The purchase orders have to go through the AD's office and are signed by him. The transporation and scheduling of events go through him.

    -- Posted by momaster on Sat, Nov 21, 2009, at 12:51 PM
  • I know Dr. Noah, Angelhow, Heinzler and Coach Thomas and let me tell all you people that these Guys really care about our kids and our schools! I get tired of everyone trashing these people because I know first hand that they are good decent people and dont deserve all of the negitive comments on here.....Ed Harper

    -- Posted by mofireman on Sat, Nov 21, 2009, at 5:49 PM
  • Just to drop in again and stir the thought process up...

    Are all you liberal obama-care nuts happy with the government sanctioned attempt at rationing breast and cervix cancer screening exams? I wonder what disease or health care problem will be the next target.

    I personally know people with breast cancer who had it found during their 40s and at an early enough stage that it probably saved their lives. The Government propaganda info put out last week says that we should limit those screening exams to those over 50. Similar statements were made about cervix cancer in younger women.

    Who said that the government would NOT ration care? The US leads the world in survivability rates of most cancers and heart attacks. THIS is the first step to making us EXACTLY like those European nationalized health care systems where their quality of care is LOWER than ours is right now.

    -- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Nov 21, 2009, at 6:43 PM
  • Another Just Me - Very perceptive you are. I've had these same thoughts stirring in my mind! I believe you are on to something.......

    Ed Harper - I appreciate where you are coming from, I certainly hope you are right, but am very worried you might be wrong........

    -- Posted by outsidelookin'in on Sat, Nov 21, 2009, at 8:33 PM
  • anotherjustme you sure do have a lot a time on your hands!!

    -- Posted by DAgates on Sat, Nov 21, 2009, at 10:16 PM
  • Smokin' Cheetah I think Coach Thomas falls under tenured teacher status.


    -- Posted by DAgates on Sat, Nov 21, 2009, at 10:27 PM
  • mrxray: There has been no attempt at government rationing of health care. All that's happened so far is that a report has been issued, indicating the current policy has not effectively reduced the incidence of these kinds of cancers.

    The sky is not falling, so let's not all get our panties in a bunch just yet. Your experience (and my own, by the way) does not change the factual reporting of what the statistics on these kinds of cancers show. A more temperate approach on everyone's part would be very helpful just now. The hype and hysteria doesn't do anyone any good at all - it's just screaming and yelling to no purpose.

    -- Posted by Miss Marple on Sun, Nov 22, 2009, at 8:44 AM
  • Ooooh, Miss Marple, I think you are mistaken. The rationing began with the H1N1 vaccine........ The government set the guidelines on who was eligible to receive the vaccine.

    Another thing you might want to consider thinking about.... American Health Insurance Portability and Protection Act of 1996. What will happen to privacy and confidentiality when the government is part of the "circle". Remember what happened to "Joe the plumber"?

    Just some thoughts......

    Have a great day!


    -- Posted by missy08 on Sun, Nov 22, 2009, at 10:05 AM
  • Keep it up mrxray, you are in good company.

    This excerpt is from the Dean of the Harvard Medical School (not a "highly-paid" industry lobbyist -- do I detect jealousy by some?):

    "Speeches and news reports can lead you to believe that proposed congressional legislation would tackle the problems of cost, access and quality. BUT THAT IS NOT TRUE. ***

    "[T]here are NO PROVISIONS to substantively control the growth of costs or raise the quality of care. So the overall effort will FAIL to qualify as reform.

    "[T]he final legislation that will emerge from Congress will markedly accelerate national health-care spending rather than restrain it. Likewise, nearly all [health-care leaders or economists] agree that the legislation would DO LITTLE OR NOTHING TO IMPROVE QUALITY OR CHANGE health-care's dysfunctional delivery system. ***

    "In effect, while the legislation would enhance access to insurance, the trade-off would be an accelerated crisis of health-care costs and perpetuation of the current dysfunctional system--now with many more participants. This will make an eventual solution even more difficult. Ultimately, our capacity to innovate and develop new therapies would suffer most of all. [That is, REDUCED gains in saved lives and enhanced living.]

    "There are important lessons to be learned from recent experience with reform in Massachusetts. Here, insurance mandates ... succeeded in expanding coverage but --despite initial predictions-- INCREASED total spending.

    "A 'Special Commission ...' recently declared that the ... payment system must be changed ..., most likely to one involving "capitated" payments instead of the traditional fee-for-service system. Capitation means that ... providers will be given LIMITED DOLLARS PER PATIENT for all of their care, allowing for shared savings only if spending is below the targets. [THE INEVITABLE RESULT WILL BE RATIONING OF CARE.] *** "


    -- Posted by AF Brat on Sun, Nov 22, 2009, at 10:22 AM
  • I see AFBrat is offering us more "expert" testimony. Brat, for your edification, capitation is part of the HMO system now.

    Missy, you're citing an exception by using the H1N1 outbreak as an argument against "government rationing."

    MissMarple, I'm on your side. All this hysteria is only contributing to our health care crisis. Just think of how many more people will end up with ulcers, high blood pressure, heart attack, stroke, etc. etc., all because of their agitation over this issue which is still under construction.

    -- Posted by Slater on Sun, Nov 22, 2009, at 12:18 PM
  • JO, glad to hear that you are optimistic. Unfortunately, I do have a clue... I am one of those who do have access to some of that confidential info. Unfortunately, I don't believe that giving more access will make it more secure.

    Have a great day.


    -- Posted by missy08 on Sun, Nov 22, 2009, at 2:56 PM
  • Someone posted: "Brat, for your edification, capitation is part of the HMO system now."

    Actually "capitation" is no longer in most plans. So, as the Harvard Dean makes clear, it will be a return to an outdated restriction that yields BAD/LIMITED/INAPPROPRIATE medical care. It can't be part of an "open choice" plan and most HMO plans are in that form these days.

    -- Posted by AF Brat on Sun, Nov 22, 2009, at 3:22 PM
  • For you and your "Harvard Dean," a definition from the American Heritage Medical Dictionary:

    capitation: A fixed payment remitted at regular intervals to a medical provider by a managed care organization for an enrolled patient.

    This is the basis of the HMO system which Congress passed during the Nixon administration to replace the fee-for-services form of payment.

    -- Posted by Slater on Sun, Nov 22, 2009, at 4:38 PM
  • Nixon, I remember him.

    Capitation isn't the basis for medicare nor most health insurance plans today (2009). It was widely ABANDONED for just the reasons the medical school Dean articulates. Besides those reasons, it forces the doctor to cut care for patient A in order to have enough money to give care to patient B. Are you volunteering to be patient A?

    -- Posted by AF Brat on Sun, Nov 22, 2009, at 5:53 PM
  • Regarding health care: I find it absolutely illogical and intellectually baffling that so many people are in bed with the whole Government takeover of health care. Medicare has been shown to be worse about turning down claims than most, if not all, major insurers, the government was involved with the starting of HMOs and managed care and was the MAIN factor in legislating the rules that insurance companies NOW abide by. The reality is that the GOVERNMENT is influenced by a special interest group(s) that are the flavor of the day and to push THEIR policy they villianize some other special interest group. How often have we built policy around scare tactics of "how horrilbe" some business is when in fact it was the GOVERNMENT and the special interest groups that created the mess in the first place, pushing policy geared toward the special interest group that they politicians think can garner them the most campaign money?

    It is so stupid, in my opinion, that some people think that NOW, THIS TIME, the Government will get it right. It is ridiculuous. Anytime the Government does something it creates enormous unintended consequences. This time we can see the obvious consequences. We are spending trillions of dollars like I spend a quarter.

    Just like Obama said that his policy would "necessarily" cause the prices of utilities to sky rocket, we are going to "necessarily" have to cut costs within the health care industry. AND you can see with the whole "government" propoganda released last week that they are targeting the places in which the US leads the world, cancer survivability. IF they allow this new guideline to dictate how and when women can have screening tests that "government insurance" will cover then what exactly do you think will happen to our surviviability rates for breast or cervix cancer? They will NECESSARILY drop. I guess our goal of "being just like the civilized European nations" is coming to fruition. Just how many of you will like this when it is your wife, mother or daughter that suffers for this "enlightenment"?

    -- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Nov 22, 2009, at 7:43 PM
  • Just to butt in on the issue of the government and protection of personal data..... does anyone know just how many stories in the past years have we read about some government entity losing harddrives, computers or personal data?

    the government is the least efficient system in our nation and they do not have any liability that private companies have if THEY lose personal data.

    -- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Nov 22, 2009, at 7:45 PM
  • mrxray and AF Brat: Neither of you read closely what I posted, so let me say it again. Nothing has changed vis-a-vis cervical cancer and breast cancer. All that has taken place so far is the posting of alarmist comments such as yours and the usual media frenzy.

    So I repeat - the sky has not fallen, is not falling. That says nothing about what my happen in the future, but for now, you two are WAY out of line.

    -- Posted by Miss Marple on Sun, Nov 22, 2009, at 7:53 PM
  • mismarple:

    Actually you are wrong. The recommendation was that women in their 40s do not need annual screening mammos. I am not sure about you, but I know women in their 40s who has breast cancer found IN THEIR 40s.

    YOU would have to be the one to explain exactly how this was being alarmist to view this as a form of rationing. A government sanctioned body of people made this recommendation and you had to have seen all the actual oncology people in the "real" world that said this was irresponsible and not in the best interest of maintaining quality of care.

    One area, of many, that the USA leads in health care qualtiy/survivability is common cancers, Breast cancer is one of those. IF we remove the standard process of our screening system, then we automatically reduce the quality of our outcomes of the disease process as this recommendation would remove early stage screening exams that have and DO catch cancer at early stages.

    So again, I have to challenge YOU to explain why this is alarmism or inaccurate.

    -- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Nov 22, 2009, at 8:21 PM
  • Some additional information below pertaining to the recommendations of this "government sponsored study"

    Not sure about you but I dont want a 16 member board in DC to make decisions about my health care nor my family's health care

    "The new recommendations took on added significance because under health-care reform legislation pending in Congress, the conclusions of the 16-member task force would set standards for what preventive services insurance plans would be required to cover at little or no cost."


    -- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Nov 22, 2009, at 8:25 PM
  • Guess I'll give this another shot. As of this moment, nothing has happened. The results of a study were announced. That is all that has happened so far. Changes may occur IN THE FUTURE, but at this point, we are at status quo before the report was issued.

    I'm at a loss as to how I can make that any more understandable.

    -- Posted by Miss Marple on Sun, Nov 22, 2009, at 8:33 PM
  • MISS Marple:

    So what you are saying is that when a Government sponsored report/recommendation is made public, just because it has yet to become a reality with action taken upon it, that you are perfectly "happy" to wait UNTIL action is taken and it becomes soemthing that is almost irreversible?

    While not the exactly the same.... You are saying that if I told you I wanted YOUR house or YOUR property so I could build a new business that would garner ME a much wealth you would say that "oh well no action has been taken yet" and you would just sit back until I had convinced the city to allow me to invoke eminent domain? I mean after the city votes their ok you would not have ANY say so over YOUR property.

    That is OK with you?

    Why not have healthy skepticism and debate it initially WHILE you have the chance to fight it instead of AFTER the changes are made? Would this not be the more logical approach? that is the problem with Americans.... they sit back until AFTER the fact and then all they can do is complain about it... why not be proactive and fight for things BEFORE they become reality?

    -- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Nov 22, 2009, at 8:51 PM
  • Actually, mrxray, I believe the report stated that "healthy 40-49 year olds" no longer need to receive yearly mammograms, and like wise with "healthy" 50 year olds & up until an age at which the women's age & health would indicate that even if they discovered breast cancer and didn't treat it, the woman would likely die of something else first.

    Women who have known risk factors (i.e. family history, previous cysts, carry the genetic markers, etc.) would still be recommended to get yearly mammograms. That's not rationing. That's common sense.

    I believe they found that the mammogram is not a very effective tool in women age 40-49, due to the density of their breasts, and that the majority of women who do discover breast cancer in that age group, discover it through other means.

    -- Posted by koeller77 on Mon, Nov 23, 2009, at 10:13 AM
  • A joke recently posted asked:

    "Why do you get a penny for your thoughts, but have to put your two cents in?"

    An answer: "Possibly due to high interest rates, abolishment of the gold standard, I'm really not sure, ask a Jewish banker."

    All bankers are not Jewish. All Jewish bankers are not crooks.

    Most religions including Muslim and Christian are against usury.

    I believe the "answer" is "Inappropriate language."

    A presbyterian.

    -- Posted by upsedaisy on Mon, Nov 23, 2009, at 11:16 AM
  • "Last week, Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius released a statement stressing that the task force's recommendations "do not set federal policy and they don't determine what services are covered by the federal government." BUT UNDER THE DEMOCRATS' HEALTH-CARE LEGISLATION, THEY WOULD. In the House bill, only preventative services receiving grades of A or B from the task force would be part of the "essential benefits package." The task force's new recommendations on mammography downgrade routine screening in women aged 40 to 49 years to a C grade.

    "Of course, many states already require insurance companies to cover at least one mammogram per year [these state laws will be repealed by federal preemption - AFBrat]. The point is not that all mammograms should be covered, or that none should be. It is that people should be allowed to buy insurance coverage that MEETS THEIR NEEDS, based on their family health histories, their doctors' advice, etc. They should not be required to buy coverage -- or denied coverage -- based on the edicts of some task force in Washington.

    "As James Joyner pointed out last week, the vacillations of the medical community on issues like mammography draw into question "the rigors of medical scholarship, which seems to frequently draw wide conclusions based on studies of very small, self-selected samples." We shouldn't be forced to buy one-size-fits-all insurance policies in any case, but certainly not when they are designed by bureaucrats reacting to the health crisis du jour."

    Remember that YOU are not a statistic.


    -- Posted by AF Brat on Mon, Nov 23, 2009, at 11:24 AM
  • OK people of Marshall, yes you can attend the school board meetings when they are not in executive session, all board meeting are open to the public. Is this why people have been staying away, because they thought they could not attend. Maybe thats whey things are the mess they are in because people do not go and express their opinions, without your opinions they don't know what you want or expect.

    -- Posted by froom on Mon, Nov 23, 2009, at 1:29 PM
  • Yeah but froom they will be going into 'private' to discuss what people what to know. Why is it 'private' anyway? Maybe all this 'private' activity is why the "I don't trust the school board/administration: 20.2% (51 votes)" got the most votes on the poll question: If you voted against the Marshall school bond issue, what was your main reason?

    It's a "public" school...

    -- Posted by Scarpetta on Mon, Nov 23, 2009, at 3:27 PM
    Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
    There are a limited number of reasons a governing board can go into closed session.


    Members are expected to keep discussions on the topic that justified the closure. Compliance is self-monitored. Tom Durkin of the attorney general's office said he recommends board ask a member to be a monitor and remind others to stay on topic if the conversation veers off in another direction.

  • Scarpetta, personnel matters are typically taken up by Boards in closed session and this is perfectly legal. I could be wrong, but I suspect that if you were an employee of the school district and your employment became an issue, you would prefer a closed session to a public session.

    -- Posted by OldOwl on Mon, Nov 23, 2009, at 4:17 PM
  • While I understand the employment of personnel is private, we will find out anyway. Sure the specifics can be kept under wraps, but it will all come out in the wash.

    As Eric stated too, it's not like it is watched over by anyone.

    -- Posted by Scarpetta on Mon, Nov 23, 2009, at 5:45 PM
  • upsedaisy, I found that very offensive, too, and flagged it for that reason.

    -- Posted by Miss Marple on Mon, Nov 23, 2009, at 8:27 PM
  • mrxray, I am saying nothing of the kind. Saying I like roses doesn't give you any clue as to how I feel about carnations, does it?

    Since you quite obviously don't actually read (or, I think, comprehend) what I'm saying, we can just cease to discuss the subject of health care.

    -- Posted by Miss Marple on Mon, Nov 23, 2009, at 8:33 PM
  • Why can't our government, including President Obama get anything done even though the last election was about change? Why do we continue to allow even rape, and slavery to be unregulated by law?

    Here are some answers: http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-the-re...

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Nov 24, 2009, at 12:59 AM
  • Goldman Sachs tax rate is 1%!

    Some of you still think that the federal government represents you?

    Until all of us on the left, and on the right finally get it through our heads that we must stop corporations from stuffing the pockets of the candidates that we elect they will never represent us.

    Read this stomach turner: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601110&sid=a6bQVsZS2_18

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Nov 24, 2009, at 1:17 AM
  • "The more President Obama examines our options in Afghanistan, the less he likes the choices he sees...The urgent necessity is to make a decision-whether or not it is right." -David Broder, a.k.a. "Dean of the Washington Press Corps"

    Think about that one for a few seconds.

    Broder's column appears in newspapers across the nation. He as well as many other so called sages say crap like that every day without anyone batting an eye. I believe they are making the case that punditry is descending into idiocy.

    Mr. Broder was born in 1929. He was a seasoned observer, and commentator when we went into Viet Nam. He saw the failure of that rush to judgment. Even considering his advanced age, and the potential for forgetfulness that excuse won't fly. Our rush to erroneously jump to the Iraq invasion must still be fresh in his mind.

    Yet that *** states that it is o.k. to commit another 40,000 of our soldiers to potentially lose their lives, even if it is the wrong decision, just don't delay the decision.

    Paying good money for that sort of opinion is almost as onerous, and wasteful as we tax payers giving bonuses to Wall Street failures

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Nov 24, 2009, at 2:09 AM
  • News Across: Let's see...dog eat dog, and each dog's bark is heard? There does seem to be an incongruity.

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Nov 24, 2009, at 2:19 AM
  • I'm taking this opportunity to wish EVERYONE an enjoyable holiday and weekend. Don't load up on so much tryptophan that you miss out on the entire weekend! :)

    -- Posted by Slater on Tue, Nov 24, 2009, at 3:47 PM
  • And the same wish for you, Slater! Gobble, gobble!

    -- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, Nov 24, 2009, at 7:20 PM
  • NanaDot - That's funny! I mean parts of it are kind of sad - but mostly just hilarious.

    -- Posted by broke-n-busted on Tue, Nov 24, 2009, at 9:31 PM
  • NanaDot - thanks for that link. Creepy, sad, hilarious, and oh-so-true, all of it.

    -- Posted by Miss Marple on Tue, Nov 24, 2009, at 9:47 PM
  • koeller77: I believe they found that the mammogram is not a very effective tool in women age 40-49, due to the density of their breasts, and that the majority of women who do discover breast cancer in that age group, discover it through other means.

    Above is what you posted. So by this you are saying that for all those women in their 40s who DID have breast cancer found and treated are just SOL and you think this is good?!!! Even, if as the report stated, that there are some false positives in Mammograms, are you saying that it is ok to sacrifice the rest of the people?

    -- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Nov 24, 2009, at 10:28 PM
  • mrxray, I am saying nothing of the kind. Saying I like roses doesn't give you any clue as to how I feel about carnations, does it?

    Since you quite obviously don't actually read (or, I think, comprehend) what I'm saying, we can just cease to discuss the subject of health care.

    MISS MARPLES: Way to avoid and dodge the issue

    -- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Nov 24, 2009, at 10:29 PM
  • ND - the link is indeed a sobering dissertation on the ills of American society. Thanks for sharing it.

    -- Posted by Slater on Wed, Nov 25, 2009, at 12:17 AM
  • NanaDot: Thank you for posting the Joe Bageant link. I read him often, but had somehow missed this one (so much to read, so little time).

    This is Joe at his powerful passionate best. I think he gets to the heart of issues better than any other current populist/progressive writer. I wish that everyone who reads this blog, left, right, and center would take the time to click the link you provided, and invest a few minutes in reading the piece. If they did I believe some of those would come to a greater understanding of the true root of their legitimate frustrations.

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Nov 25, 2009, at 12:47 AM
  • News,

    In my view, democracy is the up escalator for capitalizm. It serves as the means by which morally corrupt individuals rationalize their decisions to commit unholy acts, all for the love of money and without regard for the consequences.

    -- Posted by Slater on Wed, Nov 25, 2009, at 12:47 AM
  • Slater what in the world are you doing? Still up at this wee hour, it must be disconcerting to the dog, and the cat.

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Nov 25, 2009, at 12:53 AM
  • Hey! :) Just muddling about. How are things?

    -- Posted by Slater on Wed, Nov 25, 2009, at 12:55 AM
  • Yep, I see by the old atom clock that we're now into Thanksgiving Eve.

    I'm not sure why I'm still up. Actually, I didn't realize what time it's getting to be.

    I think I WILL go recline for a few hours. I'm playing the devil with the sleep formula tonight!:)

    -- Posted by Slater on Wed, Nov 25, 2009, at 1:06 AM
  • Slater: Things are better than I have any right to expect. I hit my sixty ninth birthday a couple of weeks ago. I still smoke like a chimney, but for some reason it hasn't made the old house fall down...yet. I have a loving, adoring wife that is ten years younger than me. An old dog that is sleeping beside me at the moment, and who may adore me more than my dear wife. Progeny that please me to no end, adequate food, adequate shelter, a few good friends...I never thought I would make it to this age, let alone with so much to be thankful for.

    There...that is more than you ever wanted to know, betcha won't ask again. :)

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Nov 25, 2009, at 1:10 AM

    After Thanksgiving our President is going to announce a troop build up in Afghanistan. We as citizens should know the odds that will be against such adventure. Here is the opportunity to learn what we face. Please read the link: http://www.consortiumnews.com/2009/112309b.html

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Nov 25, 2009, at 2:25 AM
  • Happy Thanksgiving, everyone!

    -- Posted by AF Brat on Wed, Nov 25, 2009, at 5:12 AM
  • mrxray, the straw man you set up and knocked down is dead and so is the horse you're beating. And the sky still has not fallen. There is no need for further conversation between us on the subject.

    -- Posted by Miss Marple on Wed, Nov 25, 2009, at 10:42 AM
  • mrxray -

    At risk of furthering a conversation that I don't really see being resolved...

    No, I do not think women in their 40's are SOL. As I also stated in my post, women who have risk factors will still be screened appropriately using mammograms.

    Just like every other screening tool that we have, guidelines must be set for appropriate and effective use. There will always be people that are missed.

    We're not going to agree on this subject, clearly, but that's okay. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion. :-)

    -- Posted by koeller77 on Wed, Nov 25, 2009, at 11:33 AM
  • One of Marshall's brave firemen is fighting for his life from an illness and needs prayers from the community. Please pray for a man who would risk his life to save yours.

    -- Posted by kkmom on Wed, Nov 25, 2009, at 12:58 PM

    I know that some of us look toward the trip to Grandma's house with a sense of dread that would have been appropriate of Little Red Riding Hood had she only known what waited.

    My sympathy for those that encounter that particular holiday plight compels me to share a few tips that may make palatable the gathering, if not the food.

    A little preplanning, as with most things is imperative. Hence it is a necessity that in the week leading up to the event that you high yourself posthaste to the local dispenser of "view at home movies". Rent every one of the myriad of products that have a theme based on dysfunctional families at holiday gatherings. Take them home and view all prior to Thanksgiving Day. Hopefully you have a significant other, or at least a friend who will accompany you to your T-day event with whom to share the preconditioning.

    Upon arrival at the venerable event try to adopt a state of mind that you are not a part of this mess, that you are there merely as a social observer. Imagine that you have encroached upon a primitive society, and that your purpose is merely to attempt to understand their customs. Try to stay in the background as much as possible. Be sure to avoid all circles of three or more people. Do not ever walk between two people who are engaging in heated exchange. If you are familiar with the physical surroundings be sure to match your clothing to the color of the walls of the room where you will spend most of your time. Stand near a wall.

    That sounds like a lot of work you say? Well, now for the fun part. Remember all those movies you watched? Remember that I said it is best that you watch them with someone? Game on. As the day progresses meet intermittently with the person who came with you. Whisper, "Uncle Joe, the guy in the Chevy Chase movie". Hopefully, your companion will be able to retort "Cousin Gertrude, the obnoxious one in the Woody Allen movie". And so it will go all day as you match wits, each of you piling up points with your comparisons of real to fictional characters.

    One last thing, be sure to be front, and center at the days end group photo. It will save you endless argument the next Thanksgiving as to why in hell you weren't there the year before.

    Happy Thanksgiving everyone. I hope you enjoy this little dish that I created for the day.

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Nov 25, 2009, at 1:00 PM
  • Thanks, OK Reader! A good laugh in the middle of a very busy day. Happy Thanksgiving to everyone!

    -- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Nov 25, 2009, at 3:46 PM
  • mrxray, the straw man you set up and knocked down is dead and so is the horse you're beating. And the sky still has not fallen. There is no need for further conversation between us on the subject.

    -- Posted by Miss Marple

    Since a straw man argument basically states that if person A has argument X and then Person B has argument Y that is a distortion of X and Person B attacks A because of X and therefore concludes that Person A is wrong, I can apply this attempt by YOU to utilize the description of My argument as straw man to YOUR argument as well. I find it funny that people use the words "straw man" to attempt to belittle someone with whom they disagree.

    -- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Nov 25, 2009, at 5:23 PM
  • Just like every other screening tool that we have, guidelines must be set for appropriate and effective use. There will always be people that are missed.

    We're not going to agree on this subject, clearly, but that's okay. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion. :-)

    -- Posted by koeller77

    ME: Since we have screening tools and Since the US leads in the survivability in cancers such as Breast cancer, then logic can ONLY conclude that the reduction by government recommendation, such as occurred last week, can ONLY reduce the numbers of women whose cancer is caught at an early stage. This even considers that a portion of the women have false positives. The problem of false positives needs to be addressed instead of reducing the numbers of screening or the availability of said screening tools.

    Basically the attitude that some people will always be missed is the exact attitude that socialism pushes....Sacrifice individuals for the so called good of society.

    -- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Nov 25, 2009, at 5:26 PM
  • Marshall, have a good Thanksgiving, and think of the one's who won't have even a crumb! This is the U.S.A.?

    -- Posted by Jo on Wed, Nov 25, 2009, at 7:22 PM
  • Our families prayers are with the fireman from the earlier post. Happy Thanksgiving to all. Oaklahoma Reader very funny post!

    -- Posted by litlmissme on Wed, Nov 25, 2009, at 7:27 PM
  • Mr. Xray you said, "Basically the attitude that some people will always be missed is the exact attitude that socialism pushes....Sacrifice individuals for the so called good of society."

    Have you considered that the exact attitude that unfettered capitalism pushes is sacrificing even more individuals for the so called good of only a few within society as a whole.

    Which is worse?

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Nov 25, 2009, at 7:33 PM
  • Happy Thanksgiving, mrxray. When you give thanks tomorrow, don't forget to give thanks for the right to speak your mind.

    -- Posted by Miss Marple on Wed, Nov 25, 2009, at 7:39 PM
  • Nanadot and Miss Marples and OK Reader. As for so called collateral damage or acceptable losses, I expressed no opinion regarding that. My point was that in Medicine, which the government is trying to take over, since we have high survivability rates for cancer NOW and since the government recommended a plan that WILL reduce early diagnosis of breast cancer, then our survivability rates WILL necessarily go down, thus our quality of care will be reduced, all in the name of "spreading the wealth" In this case the wealth means maybe more people will have access to a government health insurance plan but more people will die because of the lack of early diagnosing.

    Unfettered capitalism and the sacrifice of some? Maybe but you would have to describe an example and then also explain how the government regulations and laws governing that action do NOT cause the problem.

    -- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Nov 26, 2009, at 9:47 AM
  • MrXray - I have three questions for you:

    Why do you present such an irrational argument?

    Why do you persist in arguing this topic when apparently no one agrees with you (except for maybe one other)?

    If you're some kind of genius radiologist with a fail-safe secret device or detection method, why not point your computer eastward and make your case with someone like Kathleen Sebelius, or other members of that esteemed gathering on the east coast?

    -- Posted by Slater on Thu, Nov 26, 2009, at 11:36 AM
  • MrXray - I have three questions for you:

    Why do you present such an irrational argument?

    Why do you persist in arguing this topic when apparently no one agrees with you (except for maybe one other)?

    If you're some kind of genius radiologist with a fail-safe secret device or detection method, why not point your computer eastward and make your case with someone like Kathleen Sebelius, or other members of that esteemed gathering on the east coast?

    -- Posted by Slater on Thu, Nov 26, 2009, at 11:36 AM

    Slater: to answer you silly questions..

    1. You have not given a rational reason to explain why my question or thought was irrational nor backed up YOUR opinion about my thoughts and questions with fact. Therefore you have not provided any form of helpful input for anyone to actually discuss this question you posed.

    2. Your logic seems to be that since only one or two people, if any (according to you) agree with me and everyone else (since you obviously speak for all other people) disagrees with me therefore I have to be wrong. That is silly.

    3. I am not a super radiologist. I do have a University of Life degree in common sense and logical thought process though. But more importantly, you have failed to even discuss or argue against my logical reasoning that stated that since they are recommending reducing the screening exams and since there ARE women who have had breast cancer diagnosed at early stages and therefore their lives saved, that this necessarily reduces our quality of care if and when they decide to implement this recommendation. IF they do implement it then it IS rationing and it can be potentially viewed as a death panel. I do not see how you can view this any differently. Even if you don't want to call it rationing, you have to agree that with less screening, there is necessarily a greater chance that MORE people will have their breast cancer missed. Does this fit for every case of breast cancer obviously not. But LESS screening DOES in real life equal MORE women with missed or late diagnosed cases of breast cancer. That is a fact you CANNOT argue.

    -- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Nov 26, 2009, at 9:37 PM
  • MrXray - Two other posters, MissMarple and koeller77, have repeatedly explained the reasons for the proposed changes.

    I can see why their attempts failed. My questions posed no argument for or against any changes, nor was that my intention. I merely pointed out that your efforts to "educate" the readers of this blog appear to have fallen on deaf ears and that you would do well to expend your energy more productively.

    Nobody in Washington reads the MDN Speak Out.

    -- Posted by Slater on Thu, Nov 26, 2009, at 10:50 PM
  • mrxray,

    Just because no one else has posted in support of what you are saying doesn't mean we aren't listening or in agreement. As a woman in the age group which could be affected by the possible changes, and as a person who has been directly affected by family members and friends who have cancer, I thank you for your concern and the information you have given.

    I forget who said it but it was mentioned on here that just because these changes have been mentioned doesn't mean they will be implemented. True, but getting your agenda out in the open to the media and general public is often the first step.

    Again, mrxray, thank you.

    -- Posted by Night Sky on Fri, Nov 27, 2009, at 9:39 AM
  • OK, I won't speak. I'll let someone else do it.

    "The [Pelosi-Reid] bill is irredeemable. It should not only be defeated. It should be immolated, its ashes scattered over the Senate swimming pool.

    "INSURING THE UNINSURED IS A MORAL IMPERATIVE. The problem is that the Democrats have chosen the WORST POSSIBLE METHOD -- a $1 trillion new entitlement of stupefying arbitrariness and inefficiency. The better choice is targeted measures that attack the inefficiencies of the current system one by one -- tort reform, interstate purchasing. and taxing employee benefits. It would take 20 pages to write such a bill, not 2,000 -- and provide the funds to cover the uninsured without wrecking both U.S. health care and the U.S. Treasury."

    Kill the Bills. Do Health Reform Right by Charles Krauthammer. http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ODFkNjliY2FkMGNmNDU5NmNlZjE3YmE4MjQzOTI1NmQ...

    But there's no population ever more dependent on big government in that approach.

    -- Posted by AF Brat on Fri, Nov 27, 2009, at 3:17 PM
  • The only problem with that news is that we aren't actually paying for a large portion of our military bill to begin with. So if we were to end the wars and the waste we would likely only be back to break even.

    Paul Krugman says tax the financial speculators. You have to admit - it has a certain ring to it.


    -- Posted by broke-n-busted on Fri, Nov 27, 2009, at 6:28 PM
  • News Across says: "We can follow the rest of the modern World and socialize medicine completely".

    Like they do in the UK? Right.

    Here's what you get there:

    "Hundreds of patients may have died needlessly at [National Health Sservice] NHS hospital due to appalling standards of care * * *

    "[T]he new report found "systematic failings" in the trust's management, all of whom are still in their jobs. The CQC said its confidence in the management's ability had been 'severely dented'.

    "The watchdog report comes just months after an investigation into Mid-Staffordshire NHS foundation trust found similar problems, with up to 1,200 avoidable deaths.

    "... [T]he similarities with the failures at Basildon will raise concerns that there are widespread problems in the NHS.

    "Katherine Murphy, director of the Patients Association said: "Yet again patients are being neglected. Lack of monitoring, lack of help with feeding, lack of dignity, avoidable pressure sores. How many times do the public need to keep hearing about this before the Government is embarrassed enough to do something about it?

    "'We're sick and tired of NHS managers and senior staff walking away unscathed when families are left with a life sentence of grief.' * * *

    "'This Government has set up a labyrinth of bodies and inspectors which are meant to ensure high quality standards in our hospitals but it simply isn't working. This is yet another case where a hospital has passed the test on paper but where real patient safety has clearly been compromised.'

    "Mike O'Brien, Health Minister,said: "Patient safety must be a top priority for the NHS and all patients deserve the highest quality of care."

    Of course they do. But they aren't getting it from the "labyrinth of bodies and inspectors" overseeing Britain's socialized medicine.

    And I believe that, like Canada, it is illegal to sell better health care insurance in the UK (is that true in Oz too?), although Britons can come to the USA for care if they're rich enough.

    -- Posted by AF Brat on Fri, Nov 27, 2009, at 8:05 PM
  • Slater: Thanks! That was helpful!

    NightSky: You are welcome. You are so right, they want to inform the people of what their recommendations are, I do not see how you can ignore what they are telling you as a "recommendation" by the government and tell yourself and other people on here that it is not something to seriously think about or object to until AFTER they make it policy.

    News Across: So your solution to health care and other social problems is to further weaken our military and therefore our national security? I would laugh but that is so sad. I know though it is all Bush's fault right?

    -- Posted by mrxray on Fri, Nov 27, 2009, at 8:19 PM
  • Maybe i have no idea what i'm talking about,But,personally everyone in this Country should not have to struggle for basic human needs as they are doing now. This is a Rich Country, for some! And i think the people are the one's who made it this way! But it has come to the point were the Corporate World has taken over our Government, they have us on our knee'! I feel we whouldn't be as vulnerable if we seen to it that no Company or Organization be allow to get just so big! They keep saying competition is good, but what kind of competition is there when they allow, buy outs and takeovers? It's like the oil Nation's Collaboration, about how much to charge us for Oil! That's not Competition, that collaboration! If thats Free Enterprise it stinks! It's the People who made this Country, and we are getting short changed! There would be nothing with out the Main Stream American,and we better take care of the Main Stream! I don't care what the Pin Heads has figured out, about how to treat us!

    -- Posted by Jo on Fri, Nov 27, 2009, at 9:45 PM
  • mrxray you've got friends in high places who AGREE with you.

    "(Associated Press) Women should continue getting regular mammograms starting at age 40, Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius said Wednesday, moving to douse confusion caused by a task-force recommendation two days earlier."

    -- Posted by AF Brat on Fri, Nov 27, 2009, at 9:55 PM
  • Jo: I agree that the corporate world, that of the very large, even world-wide businesses, work the systems to garner more and more of the share of the industry and that reduces competition. We see in many areas. One area that people are not considering this is that of Unions, just like SEIU and any other Union. They want more and more people to pay their dues so the executives of the Union can continue living large off the life of the working people who are forced to pay dues. Why do you think there are laws that require "union wages and benefits" to be paid ALL people union or not if they work on Government jobs?

    The problem is that the government is too large and thus it works just like a big corporation, obtaining more and more control over our economy and our lives. The elitist politicians do it for personal gain. The special interest influence takes place in campaign funds for any politician who will sell their self for the right amount of 'benefit' and it takes place when they want to push policy. Do you REALLY think that the politicians have ANY clue what real life is like for those of us who make less than $75,000/year? I mean they ALL live in the top 5% of incomes in our nation or higher. All they really care about, both parties, is getting re-elected and their speaking tours after they retire and any other benefits they can get for their selves.

    -- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Nov 28, 2009, at 11:59 AM
  • AF Brat: Whats her name the ex-gov of Kansas might have to come out and appease all of us uneducated people with a statement to calm us down because of their attempt to slip something by us in the form of a recommendation. BUT that does not take away the great amount of concern that all people should have regarding the decision making ability that a government sanctioned board WILL have under the Pelosi/Baucus/Reid/Obama care bills. I just find it strange that people cannot see what is happening and even if they choose to ignore the power grab and just excuse it by saying that "all people deserve health care and the government owes it to us as some sort of right", how can they not have a healthy does of skepticism about anything the corrupt political game puts out?

    -- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Nov 28, 2009, at 11:46 PM
  • It is wonderful to see the rise of populist ire across the political spectrum.

    My fervent (if slight) hope is that we will be able to resist the corporatist effort to divide us, and instead find the common ground that will lead to a better life for all of us.

    The currently proposed health care bills are awful mish mashs that are not what we need. How could they be otherwise as they are proposed at the direction of the corporatists to con us into believing that we should just leave health care to unfettered corporatist "experts" who will do what is best for us. Sure they will.

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Nov 28, 2009, at 11:49 PM
  • http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/29/us/29foodstamps.html

    If we do not come together the majority of us will eventually be living on a pittance of a dole mostly composed of a plastic pass that allows us to recieve basic sustenance.

    Please read the link I have provided. It is heart breaking to see the ongoing destruction of the middle class.

    The near sighted corporatists do not yet understand that a thriving middle class is necessary for their own long range survival.

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Nov 29, 2009, at 12:04 AM
  • MrXray - It's a cinch we don't have any representation in Washington, and the bulk of those elected "officials" aren't smart enough (literally) to reform the healthcare system so that it works the best for all of us. I don't have faith that anything good will come out of that place up there. I believe our system of government could make it happen, but we have too many corrupt people "looking out for our interests."

    During the Clinton impeachment process a news person asked Newt Gingrich if he thought the public should have a say in what happened to Clinton, and Gingrich said the public was too stupid to know what needed to be done. Do you remember that? Well, in my opinion that same attitude prevails in Washington. They all think they have the answers and the public has no business interfering.

    Until we force the politicians to come around to thinking and acting on what's best for America and its people, very little good will come out of that place over there.

    I saw where Sebelius made an effort to get her foot out of her mouth. It's interesting how the tiniest breach of the language can set off a firestorm of public outcries, whether intended or not.

    -- Posted by Slater on Sun, Nov 29, 2009, at 12:40 AM
  • Does anyone know if the fake lights on the courthouse dome will be changed out for the real thing?

    When I was a kid in Slater, I used to see them from an upstairs window in our house.

    Evenin' OKR. How are things? :)

    -- Posted by Slater on Sun, Nov 29, 2009, at 12:48 AM
    Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
    That's not part of the plan. The new fiber optic lights were put in place, as I understand it, in part because they are much much easier to maintain.
  • Fair to middlin Slater, fair to middlin. You?

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Nov 29, 2009, at 1:15 AM
  • Slater,

    The courthouse dome lights will be replaced.

    After they rebuild the dome because an airplane on approach to our airport hit it.

    Seriously, I think they're ugly and potentially dangerous.

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Nov 29, 2009, at 8:17 AM
  • Seems to me that the problem with all of our elected federal officials is that the job is too sweet. Great benefits and no real term limits except for president.

    To get those sweet jobs they need help.

    To keep those sweet jobs they need help.

    They have to pay for that help in way or another.

    On and on and on.

    Seems to me that this is where reform of any stripe has to start. Term limits and campaign finance. I'm not sure how we as lowly voters can get this done since the fox's are guarding the chicken house.

    Compared to the American public,the members of congress who are millionaires is highly skewed.

    While I don't doubt for a minute that thier position in congress helps them find ways to increase thier wealth I believe it's more problematic that they are completely out of touch with the working class. It's a "let them eat cake" mentality.

    Add to this that each party spends most of it's time and energy trying to discredit the other side.

    If side A says the sun will come up tommorrow then side B will say it won't and then try to make sure that it doesn't in hopes of having a nice big "I told you so" come the next election cycle.

    Meanwhile, the real, meaningful business of the people suffers to that end.

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Nov 29, 2009, at 9:04 AM
  • What the f..

    Exactly. George Washington and other founding fathers warned of too much pay for the job would cause people's motivations for getting into politics to change from "caring about the nation" to personal gain. That is what we have today and it is only getting worse.

    -- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Nov 29, 2009, at 8:19 PM
  • I agree, Slater. You cannot see the courthouse lights until you are on the square. It cannot be safe for aircraft. I miss seeing them as we drive in from the junction. I thought LED lights were supposed to be so much brighter. Shows what I know!

    -- Posted by oneofmany on Sun, Nov 29, 2009, at 11:40 PM
  • There has been much debate on this blog regarding our health care crisis. It has largely been a discussion of broad theory, and hypothesis as to the proper fix.

    In Sunday's New York Times Op-Ed section Nicholas Kristof wrote a heart rending piece entitled "Are We Going To Let John Die?" It is the story of one person's, no, one family's predicament when faced with a dysfunctional medical system that has turned it's back on a solid American's life threatening situation.

    I think that just for a moment it would serve us all well to personalize the debate. We need to realize that we aren't just discussing opposing theories, rather that actual people's lives hang in the balance.

    Therefore, I challenge each of you imbroiled in this debate to read the article, and tell us what you would change about the system that would lead to this man's life being saved. Here is a link to Mr. Kristof's commentary. Please read it, and respond. I don't have an answer do you?


    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Nov 30, 2009, at 12:12 AM
  • By the way, a belated thank you to Kathy F., and Littlemissme for your comments regarding my satirical Thanksgiving post.

    Further on that subject, a good friend who reads this blog e mailed me regarding an error that slipped by me until I had already posted. I was just going to let it go, the horse was out of the barn. His e mail has forced me to public confession. :)

    I used the word high, in the sense of to hasten, I should have spelled it hie. There. I am now free of hidden guilt. Whew! :)

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Nov 30, 2009, at 12:32 AM
  • New Gallup Poll data is bad for the bloated Democrat plan.

    "Without leaners, the picture looks just as grim for ObamaCare advocates. Only 35% of adults -- not registered or likely voters -- support the bill, while 42% oppose it. Not only is the latter the highest level of opposition so far this year, it's higher than support ever reached this year, too. Support rebounded from a low of 29% in October, but only claimed about half of those who made up their minds in that period.

    "Gallup doesn't present any historical data on Obama's approval rating on health care, but he's upside-down by 13 points on this survey, 40/53. Democrats approve of his work on the issue at 74%, but as Gallup notes, they approve overall at 80%. Independents have Obama 25 points under water on health care."

    -- Posted by AF Brat on Mon, Nov 30, 2009, at 8:43 AM
  • AFBrat: You may have read my post regarding one familie's plight, as presented by Nicolas Kristof.

    Would the healthcare plan that you support save John's life? How?

    NewsAcross: I agree that an all encompassing socialized medicine system would afford "John" the needed treatment. Unfortunately it has no chance of becoming law in this country.

    What specific changes based on our current healthcare system would end the madness of a system that lets people die, that causes Doctors to say we won't treat him because he doesn't have a form of health coverage that pays at a rate that we think is sufficient?

    Mrxray: I would appreciate your opinion as to the solution to this family's problem.

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Nov 30, 2009, at 10:01 AM
  • I would think the only reasonable way to correct the problems this Country has, is Special Elections on the issues! No one Elected Official will have any affect. This would be on Health Care or any other Major issues we have! The People should be the one's to decide our fate! These People are our Employee's, and what Employer lets the Employees set there benefits with a job they are Elected to? You are not going to control these People with out it! Also , I think the comment the reader expressed on Oklahoma's use of a word is so silly, compared to the seriousness of other things! I think this could be part of the problems in this Country,This Political Correctness B. S.! I think everyone knows what he meant! I think this Political correctness was started to keep the Politician's from getting their Nose broke in a lot of situation's! I can remember back in the old Days, in Marshall, when you made statements about a Person that was misleading or a lie , you could get your Nose broke , and that's the way it should be! It would Stop a lot of this B. S. in Washington! So , my point is these Guy's will be and do what they want until we do something about it! They want to make sure they get theirs, they have no concern about the People they represent! But what do i know?

    -- Posted by Jo on Mon, Nov 30, 2009, at 10:05 AM
  • "Pop" Ferguson once said anytime your taxes exceed one third of your income, you are living in a socialistic state. He further said socialism is next to communism.

    "The Big Red Scare" seems a thing of the past. I wonder sometimes. The idealogy is still there.

    Socialism, Communism; I like capitalism much better

    -- Posted by red dog on Mon, Nov 30, 2009, at 10:12 AM
  • I feel that I should explain further my request that we typical Americans, the posters on this blog address a specific situation that exists under our current healthcare system.

    Congress is bogged down in a continued power struggle over options that apparently satisfy very few. It is likely that the sausage that they finally present us will not be palatable once we know what is in it.

    It has become apparent to me that Congress has become so dysfunctional that they are incapable of solving our healthcare problem. So, what can we frustrated citizens do?

    I think that we, in this grass roots blog community, one rife with intelligent people of disparate political persuasion can show Congress, that a rational solution to the problem of hard working American families being denied medical care can be agreed upon. We have one advantage over Congress in that none of us are having our pockets stuffed by entrenched bribers, neither unions, nor Big Health.

    This is a crisis in our country. One that demands patriots rise to the defense of our citizenry. If we can agree on a rational solution then perhaps it will spread to other communities, first on the blogs, then on the streets of America. We have to try.

    One other note. I chose a specific case to call to your attention because we must keep this personal. Most of us believe that Congress is not in touch with main stream America. By remaining focused on the horrible plight of one good man, and his family, a plight that incapicitates him, causes him horrifying pain every day, and one that will kill him soon, or later, we realize that we must help John, and thousands of others as soon as possible.

    So lets just do it. Dream big. Who knows, perhaps we will give new meaning to the words Marshall Plan.

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Nov 30, 2009, at 10:59 AM
  • Once more, for ease of reading, the horrendous plight of a fellow American, John the Rejected. His story is much more compelling than that of Joe the Plumber. Can we help him?


    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Nov 30, 2009, at 11:10 AM
  • More news of British socialized medicine in action (or is it inaction?). A proven formula: cost savings reduce screening tests which reduce detection then delaying treatment increases deaths which, in turn, save the money "lost" on treating terminally ill patients. Go NHS!

    "Up to 10,000 people die needlessly of cancer every year because their condition is diagnosed too late, according to research by the government's director of cancer services. Earlier detection of symptoms could save between 5,000 and 10,000 lives in England a year, Prof Mike Richards will reveal this week. * * *

    "Richards has revised up his estimate after studying the three deadliest forms of the disease ‑ lung, bowel and breast cancer ‑ which together kill almost 63,000 people a year.

    "These delays in patients presenting with symptoms and cancer being diagnosed at a late stage inevitably cost lives. The situation is unacceptable," Richards told the Guardian.

    "BRITAIN IS POOR BY INTERNATIONAL STANDARDS AT DIAGNOSING CANCER. Richards's findings will add urgency to the NHS's efforts to improve early diagnosis. They also raise further questions about how often family doctors fail to recognise telltale signs. * * *

    "In an article in the forthcoming British Journal of Cancer, which is published by Cancer Research UK, Richards will say: "Efforts now need to be directed at promoting early diagnosis for the very large number (over 90%) of cancer patients who are diagnosed as a result of their symptoms, rather than by screening. [US-style mammograms, perhaps???] * * *

    "The study focused on Britain's three biggest cancer killers: lung, which killed 34,589 people in 2007; colon (16,087); and breast (12,082). They account for 40% of the 155,484 cancer deaths in the UK in 2007 and, Richards found, ABOUT HALF OF ALL THE DEATHS COULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED IF DIAGNOSIS WAS AS GOOD AS THE BEST performing European countries.

    "Richards found that "late diagnosis was almost certainly a major contributor to poor survival in England for all three cancers", but also identified low rates of surgical intervention [cost savings?] being received by cancer patients as another key reason for poor survival rates.

    * * *

    "Early diagnosis usually means that treatment is more effective and milder for the patient, added Hiom. * * * "

    I'm not making this stuff up. British newspapers are publishing it.

    -- Posted by AF Brat on Mon, Nov 30, 2009, at 11:35 AM
  • Come on AF Brat. Your continued screeds as to what is wrong with socialized medicine do nothing to correct what is wrong with our health care system..

    You are an intelligent person. Can you not be proactive? What would you change about our health care system that would alleviate the awful problem of your fellow citizen John?

    For the moment cast aside ideology, is there a pragmatic solution? Perhaps you are the one that has the answer. Perhaps ypu are the one that can show us the way to figuratively pick up John who has fallen, and take him to a place where he can get help.

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Nov 30, 2009, at 11:55 AM
  • Olka Reader posted: "Can we help [John]?

    Of course and we should. If you actually read my posts, you'll see support for a subsidy to give every American true "catastrophic" coverage. That's a political "no-brainer" that neither party directly opposes. But it's relatively cheap and doesn't invade every aspect of health care so lots of Democrats don't want it. It fixes a discrete problem, it does not bring on the great society. To help John would allow dropping the other 1980 pages of the bill.

    -- Posted by AF Brat on Mon, Nov 30, 2009, at 12:12 PM
  • Jo: Have you read the link that I posted regarding John?

    If so what do you think can actually be done to save the man's life?

    Don't be put off because you do not write as well as some others. You capably express your thoughts. You may have the fresh idea that we can all get behind.

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Nov 30, 2009, at 12:12 PM
  • Thank you AF Brat. That is a good idea. Lets see what others come up with, then see if we can't put something together that will put dithering Congress to shame.

    It of course will take compromise from all of us, but I believe we can together come up with a plan that will by example show that the "can do" spirit of the American citizen is not moribund.

    After all, as citizens, the direction our country takes is ultimately up to us. It is a cop out for us to sit on our hands, and leave the work to folks who have forgotten who they represent.

    I am sorry I missed your positive suggestion when you previously presented it. I must say however that it may have been sandwiched between too much bulk for some of us to see it. At any rate I have it now, and on first blush it is a gem of an idea.

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Nov 30, 2009, at 12:28 PM
  • Further response to your suggestion AF Brat. I would rather see your suggestion standing alone become law than what Congress has chewed to bits, digested, and is about to vomit on America's citizenry.

    I know that is a disgusting statement, but not as disgusting as how Congress is answering our needs.

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Nov 30, 2009, at 12:37 PM
  • Within the story of John it is stated that though it is acknowleged that John could die at any moment because of the "time bomb" lurking in his brain. The medical community has refused to do the surgery that would save his life. The reason given is inadequate compensation from Medicaid. Not, no compensation, just inadequate compensation. That to me is crass.

    AF Brat's suggestion largely addresses the situation. The remaining problem (should his suggestion that we subsidize catastrophic care become law) is what is adequate compensation? How should we limit the subsidized compensation? There has to be a point when a citizen's life is at stake that the rule of supply and demand takes a back seat to the overriding need.

    Some of you may be surprised to learn that there is nothing in the august Hippocratic oath taken by Doctors, that prevents them from denying their services to a critically ill person who can afford only limited or no renumeration for the service.

    In defense of these medical professionals we all know of instances wherein they have provided care pro bono. Many do not. It is amazing that in John's case that not one of those extremely skilled, and highly compensated neurological surgeons has shown the largesse to save this man's life, despite the fact that compensation would be limited.

    Perhaps it is time that they add that dictum to the ever evolving Hippocratic oath. After all it is not the same as getting bids to have your roof replaced. In such cases a citizen can either accept a bid or reject it without the result being his/her death. The medical community has set fees. No bids, no alternatives, service, or death. It would be best if they address the issue themselves. If they fail to do so that would be unfortunate, and necessarily action would have to be taken by the citizenry for the common good.

    In fact the devil is in the details.

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Nov 30, 2009, at 1:48 PM
  • I did read the article,but i don't believe there is an answer for John in the near future , unless the private sector steps up. Thats what always has to take place when our own Government lets us down! So i ask,what good do they do , really? I know that Civilized Nation has to be Governed, but there is to much Uncivilized actions taking place in this Country! You know our Government has taken on a lot of the traits of Totalitarian Leaders and call it a free Country! It surprise me that they can pull it off! Really i believe our Young People has been conditioned to not resist5 anything being put out by the so-called Leaders. They put out this crap about being un American! To me, it's un American to not speak up for a so-called free Society ! But again i think of the last Election, and the young between 20 & 40 are wanting the change that was promised, regardless of the turmoil it will cause. But now i know even Obama don't want to shake it up like it should be, and thats whats going to have to be done! even if it brings the Country to its lowest point,it has to take place or i don't think we will survive. And that is a sad thing with all the Brave Men and Woman who has given their lives for this,whatever we have now!

    -- Posted by Jo on Mon, Nov 30, 2009, at 2:04 PM
  • Oklahoma Reader I see two possible remedies to John's dilemma. One is the insurance company that was carrying John's insurance when he became ill should still be liable for John. He was carrying the insurance when he became unable to work. They should still be covering his illness.

    The other is to close the loophole that is referred to as pre-existing conditions. Had this loophole not been there John's wife could have added him to her insurance at the point where they had a life changing event - the loss of John's job. Where this loophole is useful is where people don't carry insurance, get sick and then want to be insured. That was not the case with John.

    Insurance companies have very powerful lobbies and they get us coming and going. Any politician that listens to insurance companies over their constituents should be voted out of office.

    -- Posted by broke-n-busted on Mon, Nov 30, 2009, at 2:46 PM
  • I think everyone has forgotten what we really need. News Across is the only one that has said what we need ,and that is a little Socialism! We can't escape the reality of it! Single Payer would have been a good start! And work from there.This Illusion of being free is exactly that ,an illusion!

    -- Posted by Jo on Mon, Nov 30, 2009, at 4:11 PM
  • OK Reader,

    One word on possible reason that Dr. didn't offer to do the surgery? Liability.

    -- Posted by missy08 on Mon, Nov 30, 2009, at 5:27 PM
  • What I'd like to know is why John's situation wasn't taken care of while he was still working, a point broke'n'busted raised earlier. At that point, he had insurance, and should have had at least some disability coverage through his state and/or employer, or a combination of both. He certainly shouldn't have been fired. I realize some unscrupulous employers would do that, but that wasn't mentioned in the story. And in fact, I think that insurance company should still be on the hook for coverage.

    -- Posted by Miss Marple on Mon, Nov 30, 2009, at 9:40 PM
  • One would think that as Broke 'n Busted, and Miss Marple have commented that John's coverage would still be in effect as he was apparently still on the job when his illness struck. For some reason it apparently was not. We can only guess as to the reason.

    As insurance companies are largely regulated by state law rather than federal law it could be that there is a quirk in Oregon law that allows the termination of coverage at the end employment date.

    However, COBRA, the federal law that allows individuals to retain their group coverage for a certain period of time after cessation of employment at their own expense certainly would apply. The problem is that the cost of such coverage is exorbitant for many people, and impossible for others who have just lost their job.

    I am wondering if it would be a good law to extend AF Brat's subsidation policy to at least some of those terminated, on a need basis, for a limited time to assure continued coverage. In other words, federal assistance with COBRA premiums. In this time of domestic unrest due to continued terminations, and layoffs which causes the ranks of the uninsured to swell it is likely needed. The law could be written in such manner that it had to be reaauthorized each year or two year period. It may be more cost effective than the cost associated with a rising number of unemployed patients glutting the emergency rooms. Can we all agree on that?

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Dec 1, 2009, at 12:02 AM
  • MrXray where are you when we need you? You have been all over the blog on this issue, expressing your dissatisfaction with the bills winding their way through Congress. Can you be proactive? Surely with your level of interest in the subject there is something that has caught your eye, or that you have thought of that would be on benefit to Citizen John, and by extension to the rest of we citizens.

    I am asking for your participation in this exercise in grass roots government.

    I still believe that in a few days, that if we all pull together, we can come up with a simple plan that is less costly, and better serves the citizenry than the convoluted hodge podge that Congress intends to throw at us.

    While I am at it, I would like to see the participation of others wise, creative, or informed. WT are you still reading the blog? NanaDot? WTF? Cheetah? The rest of you (you know who you are)? Please?

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Dec 1, 2009, at 12:22 AM
  • Whoops.

    Yesterday's release of the Rasmussen numbers is very bad for the Democrat's bloated "health" care reform bill. Opposition now leads by 12% points (53-41) and it is getting solidified.

    The best opportunity to really pass something might be the plan set forth by Charles Krauthammer in my post last week.


    P.S. I'll be traveling for the next month so expect much lighter posting.

    -- Posted by AF Brat on Tue, Dec 1, 2009, at 8:48 AM
  • I know i sound Radical on this subject of Health Care and our Government and the absolute control of our minds, our lives! This is deeper than just picking around the edges of all these issues. No entity should have that kind of Control over our lives! My Problem is that People are to passivive.I don't think we pressure Government,& Corporate, America enough! We except nonsensical reasoning for some of the actions they take in our Name! Tonite Obama will try and make us believe there is a reason for this Insane War,and most will agree to his decision on our staying there! I remember the 60 with demonstrations, i was in a couple of them, and it works! We could still be there! It's insane for us to not be more Radical on all these issues! This is our Country!

    -- Posted by Jo on Tue, Dec 1, 2009, at 9:09 AM
  • Jo: Right on my brother...I was there too.

    The Corporatocracy learned valuable lessons during the Viet Nam era. Some of those were:

    1. Never allow the press the freedom to actually report on our wars, they must be closely managed when in combat areas.

    2. Hide the returning dead, and wounded from the citizenry.

    3. Most importantly, get rid of the draft. If most of the nation does not have the threat that they, or a loved one may be selected for a trip to harm's way, they will not focus on the situation.

    4. Bust more young citizens down to peon status, destroy their dreams, then give them the "opportunity" to destroy the enemy in exchange for a chance at a slice of the ever more elusive American pie, after they have served. That allows the rest of us to rationalize, oh well they are volunteers. That is like herding cattle, pushing them in the chute, and observing in all seriousness, "ain't it great that all those cattle just hopped in that chute on their own".

    I could go on, but why bother. When will we ever learn, when will we ever learn.

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Dec 1, 2009, at 12:44 PM
  • Naw...I'm not gonna say anything. I'm just not given a sht.

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Dec 1, 2009, at 1:31 PM
  • I for one an anxious to hear what is said tonight. OK Reader - when have the returning dead been hidden? - there are now laws to keep media away so a family can mourne in private. As for sending more troops to Afghanistan - does anyone realize how the numbers there have increased in the past few months? There are more people than there are facilities to take care of. Where my husband is, now has a 2 hour wait to get through the chow line and on several instances food has run out before all troops were fed. I have 15 cases of soup wrapped and mailing out today. Just a suggestion to anyone wanting to help out at Christmas. Contact your local Am. Legion or if you know someone overseas, mail packages to them to share with others who don't have family.

    -- Posted by Air Force Wife on Tue, Dec 1, 2009, at 1:41 PM
  • AirForce Wife: You have my utmost sympathy at this time. I used to send all sorts of stuff to take care of the needs of my step-son who was in a combat unit in Iraq. Even parts for his gun which the armorers in his area could not get.

    Oh well to paraphrase "Rummy" ya fight with whatcha got.

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Dec 1, 2009, at 1:56 PM
  • Thanks OK. I have been reading a lot on here about criminals getting probation rather than jail time - maybe a tour overseas should be an option. But then, jails and prisons have better facilities - a lot of these crooks probably couldn't take it.

    -- Posted by Air Force Wife on Tue, Dec 1, 2009, at 2:02 PM
  • Air Force Wife or anybody else for that matter. Is AMVETS a good organization? I had a call from them last night and agreed to send them some money if they checked out.

    -- Posted by broke-n-busted on Tue, Dec 1, 2009, at 2:31 PM
  • not gvnasht: With that attitude, you wouldn't want to be labeled as part of the problem, would you? Seriously, we have talked of the old Marshall many times i think you probably missed it. There has been some interesting comments! Hang in there,i'm sure there will be more from the old-timers & others! I found some People of my youth on here!

    -- Posted by Jo on Tue, Dec 1, 2009, at 3:56 PM
  • I was not impressed with the Speech! But i will say he is a good Speaker And i do think he is a good man,with a good Heart. But he is in charge of a Hell of a Mess, that was left to him by a totally corrupt Group, that is still there! he's like Elliot Ness being thrown into Prison with Al Capone & his Mob! Can he survive? I won't give up on him yet, because i feel he's our best hope,looking at what we have to choose from,and that's a sad thing for this Country! Hope he live's up to, even half of what he promised on his Campaign! But i feel with the decision he made tonite he has lost a lot of the Young People that put him there,i hope not! Oklahoma: i new you had to have some Rebel in you,Good Show1

    -- Posted by Jo on Tue, Dec 1, 2009, at 9:15 PM
  • OK Reader: Regarding John


    That situation sucks. This however, does NOT justify a takeover by government. It does point out some flaws that could be remedied easily. Having employment and health insurance tied together cripples competition for all people AND it causes people to become uninsured when they get laid off or in this case lose their job because of their health problems.

    Second, the Harvard study referenced in this article has been debunked as a non-study as the person(s)doing it simply found a specific number of people, asked about their insurance status, then at th end of the study they found out how many died. They did NOT find out how many may or may not have gotten insurance AFTER the study started nor any other pertinent information.

    Third, I am not at home right now, but if anyone were to be interested I could find it tomorrow, but I several articles and studies that state the survivabililty rates for many, if not most, cancers and Heart Attacks is better in the US than in most other nations. The reason is BECAUSE their nationalized health care systems are unsustainable on a tax funded, provide it for all basis. This is demonstrated in the fact that the US has more CT/MRI, Cardiac Cath labs and other diagnostic tools and treatments needed to diagnose and treat these serious and expensive illnesses. The only nation that has more of some of these tools is Japan. Simply stated, per 100,000 people we have MORE of these necessary tools because our for profit system supports the numbers of treatment, proccedures and providers and facilities that we have while the tax funded "free" health care systems cannot support them. This means that with few facilities and providers per 100,000 means that there is necessarily LONGER wait times which necessarily means a delay in diagnosis, treatment and recovery, IF recovery occurs or IF treatment occurs and not palative care. This means that nationalizing health care KILLS people even without any sort of death panel that may or may not occur. The facts are that the fewer the treatments, diagnostic tools, procedures, facilities and providers there are per capita, the LESS people are treated and the MORE people die because of their health care systems.

    We can personalize the health care debate all we want but it still all boils down to Government run health insurance or health care does NOT address the reasons why people cannot afford health insurance and it does absolutely nothing to help reduce the cost of health care.

    I can further personalize the health care system by this example. I work in the health care industry and there is a large community of Amish. The horse and buggy type. They do not have health insurance, they do have the same medical problems and about the same life expectency. YET they can pay for their health care even if it is on barter plans or they negotiate, or they make payments. NO insurance but they pay their bills. Quite a concept right? They also dont come running to the ER for sniffles, the flu, vomitting, or anything else unless it is absolutely necessary. BECAUSE they dont have insurance and because they have personal responsiblity they PAY their bills but they use the system frugally.

    -- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Dec 1, 2009, at 11:24 PM
  • OKR:

    As for more specific solutions besides untying health care and employment there are simple things that could be done. Anything that would encourage more businesses to start up in the health care industry and their functioning in a fair free market basis without corrupting influences from special interest groups via the government RULES and laws would automatically start reducing health care costs and then insurance costs would follow. Expanding the roles of medicare/medicaid or other government programs to include the people that have too many assest to qualify for those programs but dont have health insurance through their employer would be a good first but temporary step until the reasons WHY people cannot afford health care are addressed or WHY people are poor.

    That is vague but I am tired. I will post more later.

    -- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Dec 1, 2009, at 11:31 PM
  • think everyone has forgotten what we really need. News Across is the only one that has said what we need ,and that is a little Socialism! We can't escape the reality of it! Single Payer would have been a good start! And work from there.This Illusion of being free is exactly that ,an illusion!

    -- Posted by Jo on Mon, Nov 30, 2009, at 4:11 PM

    OK, right. Now explain how you will fund it, how you will keep this new and EXTREMELY large government program from being wasteful, corrupt, and full of fraud just like every other government system has? THEN explain how this will NOT affect our economy in a bad way, further pushing unemployment up because it cause less and less people to risk starting up small businesses, reduces investing in new or expanding businesses or how you would stop existing businesses from laying off people to counteract the costs of this expensive program.

    Then explain how you would prevent unintended consequences from a huge government program, because those ALWAYS happen. Then also explain how you would stop the influences of special interest groups from shaping law to benefit them and allow a new or different special interest group from benefitting from the new rules and laws.

    I mean these bills are over 2000 pages long and the Pelosi bill added over 100 new bureaucracies and positions. The Senate bill proposed gives HHS Sebelius (spelling) GREAT power in the hands of one person to dictate what will be provided and what the prices will be.

    -- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Dec 1, 2009, at 11:37 PM
  • Newsacross....

    First, I know people that live in Australia. Australia, like every other nation including the US, has people who like and dislike their systems.

    But you make some claims, now back them up. Compare what the US spends in entitlement type programs in the 2009 budget to what we spend in the defense budget both the military and the war on terror budgets. Here are the figures. Military 21.6% or 660 billion and entitlement programs 1.636 TRILLION or 53.48% of the budget.

    The point about the recession, job loss and economic harm is not necessarily about how we would pay for this program in a growing economy, but how we would start it in a horrible recession with extremely high unemployment rates. The economic fact remains that we have spent trillions and owe so much money that any additional tax based program, particularly of this size, takes money out of the economy in the form of taxes, penalties, fees, that are passed on to the consumer and by directly taxing the people who work for a living. You can believe the hype the libbies are saying and ignore that the money for this program WILL come from the working people but that is naive. ANY cost to employers will either increase product/service cost OR the business will not re-hire or create new jobs and will even lay off more people to counter the costs that the government is going to place on them. That IS how it works. We only have to go back to the inflated gas prices of $4+ to see that the gas companies, and businesses that used petro based energy ALL passed the prices onto the consumer and ultimately in the end it is the working class and poor that are hurt the worst.

    -- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Dec 2, 2009, at 8:35 AM
  • newsacross..

    part 2

    Next you try to use the Infant mortality rates and the Life expectancy rates to compare our health care system to that of other nations. Look into those stats and tell me how you can really compare one nation to another using stats whose criteria are NOT the same from nation to nation. Example, Switzerland: They do not count a baby that is born alive a live birth UNTIL/Unless it is a longer than a certain measurement. IF it alive and shorter, and then dies after birth that baby does NOT count for their IMR. However any baby born alive in the US is counted. Second, do you really believe that nations like Cuba report their data without some sort of numbers padding to make them look good? Third, we have a much more available and advanced neo-natal care system and more babies are born at earlier stages alive than other nations and this causes more babies to die after they are "born" skewing our rates higher than other nations.

    Life Expectancy: You cannot compare our nation, which has three large populations, white, black and hispanic to a nation like, say, Japan, who is about 95% or more Japanese. Each of the three mentioned races in the US have their own genetic differences (along with other causes) while Japan uses ONE race/nationality for their stats. Next you compare Japanese Americans to Japanese and their LEs are pretty close to the same. Also, you have to investigate LE and see that natural and unnatural deaths are included. Natural being illness and old age related causes while unnatural are homicide, suicide, car wrecks and accidents and unnatural deaths have almost NOTHING do to with the health care systems. When you subtract the unnatural deaths from all the nations, the US is right up there in LE with the likes of Japan. The WHO rankings purposefully manipulate data because their agenda is for global wealth redistribution and you can read that in their writings and documents.

    Back to the military: IN theory no military actions would be wonderful. IN reality, that is not the way it works

    -- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Dec 2, 2009, at 8:35 AM
  • One other consideration....

    If we downsize the military -- what are you going to do with all of those people and all of those lost jobs. I am not saying we should be at war to "create jobs" so don't twist my words.... Just curious.

    Have a great day and a Merry Christmas Season!


    -- Posted by missy08 on Wed, Dec 2, 2009, at 9:33 AM
  • I'm wondering if the Marshall News has any comment on the eithics violation claims that have been reported against Senator Bill Stouffer

    -- Posted by squirrel on Wed, Dec 2, 2009, at 11:39 AM
  • Control your military but think long and hard about cutting back. Read your history. If I need say more, then you haven't much grasp on the past.

    -- Posted by red dog on Wed, Dec 2, 2009, at 2:19 PM
  • Stouffer ran a dirty campaign when he ran against Page Bellamy years ago and it looks like he is going to do the same when he runs against Ike. I did not like his tactics then and I don't like them now.

    -- Posted by OldOwl on Wed, Dec 2, 2009, at 2:29 PM
  • OldOwl, I agree with you, hope he does not win this time around, he will not get my vote.

    -- Posted by fresh air on Wed, Dec 2, 2009, at 7:32 PM
  • News Across:

    With Stouffer being such a "fine man of good character", I hate to bust your bubble but, you can actually see the copies of the formal ethic charges that were filed today at this website: http://www.missourinet.com/2009/11/30/ethics-complaints-filed-against-congressio...

    Got to love politics!

    -- Posted by Gotta_luv_politics on Wed, Dec 2, 2009, at 10:46 PM
  • So some punk college kid files the necessary paperwork to get some sort of investigation started. Even if nothing is found, it's somewhat of a smear just being investigated. I'm sure that was his intention all along. I thought all the Democrats were big on the hopey-changey thing at the moment. If they were sincere in that regard, I'd think getting rid of all the 30 year, career politicians would be at the top of their to-do list. But as usual, all they really want to do is talk out of both sides of their mouth.

    -- Posted by outsider on Thu, Dec 3, 2009, at 9:40 AM
  • Outsider, on what grounds do you base your allegation that this latest complaint against Stouffer was filed by "a punk college kid"? Seems to me that the relevant question is whether or not Stouffer violated the rules, not who filed the complaint. Are the complaints any less valid since the person who filed them was in college? I don't think so. I do know that Stouffer ran a dirty campaign in 2006 against Bellamy and it looks to me like he is trying to do the same in 2010 against Skelton. By the way, with all the help we got from Stouffer on the Eastwood Bridge situation, glad to see the bridges have been replaced by now! No wait...I was wrong! We still don't have the bridges after all this time and all of Stouffer's help!

    -- Posted by OldOwl on Thu, Dec 3, 2009, at 10:03 AM
  • Okay totally off the wall question.

    Why aren't the 2009 Christmas Countdown Kids changing with each day? The little boy is cute, but I know that there are more kids pictures to add. Thank you.

    -- Posted by get a clue on Thu, Dec 3, 2009, at 11:24 AM
    Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
    I'll get it updated today.
  • Just a guess....but I thought I'd make the "punk" allegation public so now he can defend himself against it. Isn't that pretty much what he's doing?

    -- Posted by outsider on Thu, Dec 3, 2009, at 11:26 AM
  • Outsider, No that is not accurate. The person filed the complaint with the appropriate entities and asked them to investigate the matter. Unlike you, the person filing the complaint against Stouffer did not make any conclusions, only stated facts. Your resort to name-calling, when asked for facts, shows that you have no interest in the truth. We should all wait until the matter is investigated and see what shakes from there. That said, the current complaint does nothing to change my opinion that Stouffer's 2006 campaign against Page Bellamy was dirty politics! If history holds true, the 2010 campaign against Skelton will be more of the same. I don't care for dirty politics, no matter the party, and Stouffer will never get my vote!

    -- Posted by OldOwl on Thu, Dec 3, 2009, at 11:42 AM
  • News Across: I did not state my opinion on Senator Stouffer one way or the other-to be honest I really don't care as we all know that politics are well politics and parties on both sides use tactics that to some may be unethical-some MAY just do it better than others. I was merely just reading your remark to Squirrel and thought I'd share the website that has the copies of the charges that were filed. I have to admit though you really came at me full force for providing evidence of the charges being made, NOT stating that I believed he did in fact commit the unethical events or not....so yes I guess that is special. By the way privilege is spelled privilege not "privalege".

    -- Posted by Gotta_luv_politics on Thu, Dec 3, 2009, at 1:15 PM
  • Old Owl...You're jumping to conclusions. The person made allegations. The investigation will determine whether or not they are indeed facts. Same with my allegation that he's a punk. It still needs investigated....but I'm betting that it turns out to be true.

    -- Posted by outsider on Thu, Dec 3, 2009, at 2:21 PM
  • Outsider, just one question for you: who is going to investigate your allegation that this college student is a punk?

    -- Posted by OldOwl on Thu, Dec 3, 2009, at 3:41 PM
  • I have been reading over comments. Do you suppose that Outsider is "punk" or knows "punk"?? Owl you are right that Stouffer run a very, very dirty campaign against Bellamy. Fair and honest doesn't seem to go with politics. We shall see what Stouffer has up his sleeve this time. I think Skelton is up to the fight.

    -- Posted by silverdollar on Thu, Dec 3, 2009, at 4:10 PM
  • Nah...have no idea who it is, and really don't care. Obviously Old Owl and I have different opinions of ol' Ike and that's probably the main reason he (or she) has a problem with me calling the kid a punk.

    -- Posted by outsider on Thu, Dec 3, 2009, at 4:26 PM
  • Oh...and the part about investigating whether or not the kid is really a punk.....that was a joke. I assumed that would be obvious, but apparently not.

    -- Posted by outsider on Thu, Dec 3, 2009, at 4:29 PM
  • Somebody sure built a fire under outsider. Before we all get excited I thought there was a bunch of people that Stouffer had to get past before he could run against Skelton. Any body got a complete list? How many are running on that ticket...6 or 7?

    -- Posted by silverdollar on Thu, Dec 3, 2009, at 5:17 PM
  • As of an October 23 story by our reporter, Sydney Stonner, there are five others running for Skelton's seat:

    "Five other Republicans have announced their candidacy for Skelton's seat as well. They are Brian Riley, of Marshall; Sen. Bill Stouffer, of Napton; former state Rep. Vicky Hartzler, of Harrisonville; former Jefferson City councilman Roy Viessman; and James Scholz, an Army veteran who owns a computer security business in Warrensburg."

    -- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Thu, Dec 3, 2009, at 5:34 PM
    Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
    And Art Madden of Malta Bend.
  • News Across: I still have not stated my opinion one way or the other, but since you have already presumed my doing so let's have some fun with it (since it is not a graded quiz and all). I must admit that someone obviously has some proof to make the formal charges and since you are so bent on defending the "good character and name of Senator Stouffer" why don't you prove his innocence...

    -- Posted by Gotta_luv_politics on Thu, Dec 3, 2009, at 8:11 PM
  • Just a clarification: Sen. Bill Stouffer was not involved in the Eastwood bridge project. The city of Marshall initiated the project.

    -- Posted by Eric Crump on Thu, Dec 3, 2009, at 8:15 PM
  • -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Dec 3, 2009, at 11:38 PM
  • Here is a statement by Republican Senator Jim Bunning that should warm the hearts of progressive populists whether left, right, or center. In regard to Ben Bernanke: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/03/senator-to-fed-chair-bern_n_378673.html

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Dec 3, 2009, at 11:56 PM
  • "Somebody sure built a fire under outsider"..

    Nah...I've been chucklin through the whole thing. I'm kind of a drive-by poster here. It just struck me as a little wacky that people would be ready to lynch someone based on nothing more than the so far unfounded allegations of a college political science student.

    I've got nothing personal against Ike...but when he starts lining up with the likes of Nancy Pelosi and John Kerry, it's clear he's lost touch with the area he represents.

    -- Posted by outsider on Fri, Dec 4, 2009, at 7:07 AM
  • Haven't seen any lynch mob in this area...yet. Just fond memory of dirty campaign by Stouffer. Have to wait to see what shakes out on the ethic charges. If everyone would follow rules wouldn't be ethic charges.

    -- Posted by silverdollar on Fri, Dec 4, 2009, at 8:52 AM
  • On a much lighter note...KU Football Coach Mark Mangino has resigned!!

    -- Posted by OldOwl on Fri, Dec 4, 2009, at 8:56 AM
  • Air Force Wife or anybody else for that matter. Is AMVETS a good organization? I had a call from them last night and agreed to send them some money if they checked out.

    -- Posted by broke-n-busted on Tue, Dec 1, 2009, at 2:31 PM

    broke... In my opinion, AMVETS is a not for profit group who pays people to make calls and collect money. The money supposedly goes to help vets but it is a low percentage. If you want to help the ones currently serving, your local American Legion Women's Auxiliary is the best way. They send care packages and are always looking for names of active duty service people to send necessities to. They volunteer and do it out of kindness, not because it is a job to them.

    As for reducing our military, that's a bad idea. Leaves us vulnerable to anything. As someone else posted earlier - check history. Also, some historians believe war is good for the economy.

    news: Maybe we should be more like Australia and control illegal immigration.

    -- Posted by Air Force Wife on Fri, Dec 4, 2009, at 10:50 AM
  • Did I use the words "lighter" and "Mark Mangino" in the same sentence? My bad!

    -- Posted by OldOwl on Fri, Dec 4, 2009, at 11:12 AM
  • Heh heh heh...that's funny, OldOwl.

    -- Posted by Slater on Fri, Dec 4, 2009, at 12:18 PM
  • I know this isn't a political post or one to really spark debate, but I wanted to remind locals of the Christmas Parade later today. Sure it is cold, but bundle up and come join the fun. The kids are putting on their coats and gloves to be in the parade, we as adults can do the same to watch.

    I hope to see a lot of people there bringing the community together during the holidays!!

    -- Posted by Scarpetta on Fri, Dec 4, 2009, at 12:53 PM
  • Scarpetta, I had planned on taking the kids. Great idea to get the community together; to put aside all the indifference during this time of year!

    -- Posted by Green Eyes on Fri, Dec 4, 2009, at 1:45 PM
  • Scarpetta - My hope is that you're able to inspire a sense of community and togetherness that lasts the entire year long, year after year.

    -- Posted by Slater on Fri, Dec 4, 2009, at 1:45 PM
  • -- Posted by Slater on Fri, Dec 4, 2009, at 8:35 PM
  • -- Posted by Slater on Fri, Dec 4, 2009, at 8:38 PM
  • Now that Mark Mangino has resigned, Mizzou fans will miss telling the story about Mangino stopping in a convenience store for directions. "how do I get to 435?" The answer: "Diet and exercise."

    -- Posted by upsedaisy on Fri, Dec 4, 2009, at 9:41 PM
  • Sure a nice parade in Marshall Town tonight--little cold, however all seemed to enjoy and have a good time. Thanks to all who made the effort to put the floats together and get the kids bundled up--also thought it was nice that candy was passed out to folks who were in their vehicles as well as those able to be on the street!! All in All--VERY NICE!!

    -- Posted by farmerwife on Fri, Dec 4, 2009, at 9:49 PM
  • Ha ha ha...Upsedaisy, I hadn't heard that one before. Very funny!

    How are things in Carolina? Had any more run-ins with a mantis?

    -- Posted by Slater on Fri, Dec 4, 2009, at 9:49 PM
  • Hey Slater,

    We're in sync, for once. The mantis was ensnared in a spider web the last I saw of him. He disappeared within a day, can't believe the spider ate the whole thing. Think a bird saw dinner, "waiting in the web". Houston had snow! Any flakes in SA?

    -- Posted by upsedaisy on Fri, Dec 4, 2009, at 10:40 PM
  • No snow here, but pretty cool - 25 for the low tonight, he said. We got a look at a deserted Riverwalk on the news tonight. Some out-of-towners came here thinking it would be warm. :)

    We're trying to get ready for Christmas, with little success so far. Santa will have to navigate through our in-house construction zone this year.

    The kids left this morning for Nassau and a week of lying about on the beach. We're dog sitting, the wife with the daughter's dog, and me with our adopted mutt.

    Hope all is well at your end.

    -- Posted by Slater on Fri, Dec 4, 2009, at 10:52 PM
  • You have a lot going on with Construction , cold weather AND pets. We're hoping the weather people are right in the predictions that the Houston snow event will be a rain event by the time it reaches us tomorrow. Maybe snow flurries at the VA border. About this time, in December 2002, there was an ice storm that knocked trees down and some of us lost power for five, seven days in urban areas. Rural areas suffered even longer delays. Hope you have warmer days--dog walking is better.

    -- Posted by upsedaisy on Fri, Dec 4, 2009, at 11:11 PM
  • I remember reading about that storm and the problems it caused over there. Let's hope you don't have any more of that. I believe that same year an ice storm hit the Kansas City area and some people there were without power for up to three weeks. Some friends sent some photos of the aftermath, and the trees looked like they'd been in a war zone.

    The temp is supposed to be back to around 70 by midweek, so maybe the visitors to the city will have something to look forward to.

    How far would Gainsville, Florida be from you?

    -- Posted by Slater on Fri, Dec 4, 2009, at 11:20 PM
  • More private sector rationing of health care by an insurance company. Hartford will raise premiums in an admitted effort to increase stochholder profits by shedding six hundred thousand plus policy holders.


    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Dec 5, 2009, at 1:32 AM
  • http://www.opednews.com/articles/2/A-Smart-and-Simple-Tax-by-William-John-Cox-09...

    Here is an interesting idea that I have not seen before regarding tax reform. In essence it does away with all other forms of federal taxation in favor of a tax on all financial transactions.

    I believe it is a good read for all tax reform advocates, whether conservative, liberal, or some place in between.

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Dec 5, 2009, at 1:46 AM
  • Remember when we kicked around George W. Bush for things like escalating war, bailing out the rich etc.? We did it with things like this: http://www.internetweekly.org/2007/01/cartoon_psychology_today.html

    Where are the "things like this" now that Barak Obama is doing the same things?

    Shame on so called liberals, and progressives, who adopt a hands off policy because the actions arise from one of their own.

    If it was wrong for Bush it is wrong for Obama, and I am one mad progressive/populist.

    Besides that Obama ought to be freaking out, and second guessing himself because the lunatic James Inhofe has applauded his Afghanistan move. Most rational people don't hold the same view as Inhofe on ANYTHING.

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Dec 5, 2009, at 2:18 AM
  • OKR: Obama had an interesting week didn't he? He agreed to troop surge in the war on terror and he also stated that tax cuts might need to be considered to help job growth..... didnt he object to BOTH of those coarses of action during Bush's term?

    -- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Dec 5, 2009, at 4:17 AM
  • mrxray: Yup.

    Did you read the article provided by the link concerning the financial transaction tax? What do you think?

    To me it shares some aspects of a national sales tax. Is it something that conservatives, and liberals could both support?

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Dec 5, 2009, at 10:09 AM
  • OKR: I read that article. I am in favor and I think all Americans would be in favor of a simpler tax code that would enable our cheater politicians and presidential appointees to understand the tax code or so they would have less chance of "making mistakes" especially since Rangel is the chair person of the tax code writing committee. What else does "ways and means" mean but a committee to figure out ways for the rich to cheat the tax system. I mean the politicians are in the top 5% in incomes after al. The Dollar is backed ONLY by the peoples faith in the Congress and their economic policies, hence the inability of the trillion dollar spending programs to stimulate the economy for more than a few weeks. The corruption we see every day in Congress does not help and there is corruption in our politicians when it comes to their desire to honestly fill out their tax returns.

    All that being said, I am for some sort of tax system like this. However, I would have to see some investigation into the effects of such a system where the rich could just pass on their tax costs to consumers... the working and the poor. This system the article discussed or a sales tax based system would do another thing.... force the criminal element to spend some of their money on funding the government.

    -- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Dec 5, 2009, at 11:41 AM
  • Have you had the chance to look at these sites? fairtax.org and fairtaxnation.com very interesting.

    -- Posted by silverdollar on Sat, Dec 5, 2009, at 1:02 PM
  • Just an FYI: Winter Storm Watch just to the north of Marshall. If it shifts just right, we are in for it.










    Stay tune to KMMO or other news sources.

    -- Posted by ieatsuperglue on Sun, Dec 6, 2009, at 5:41 AM
  • "news across" posted -- "Could someone please explain to me why poor people should pay just as high a percentage tax of their income as the rich folks? Fair tax?...nothing fair about that."

    Could someone please explain to me why wealthy people should pay a higher percentage tax of their income? Fair tax?...nothing fair about that.

    Merry Christmas! Have a great day!


    -- Posted by missy08 on Sun, Dec 6, 2009, at 8:28 AM
  • Nanadot...

    I wonder WHY the rich have so many loopholes... could it be because the congress are some of the richest in the US and make the tax laws, even if they dont always follow those rules they make? I mean when the politicians are willing to bend rules or make rules that benefit rich people or corporations and when they are rich them selves do we not have a problem that is NEVER going to be solved in Congress? It is easy to blame the big corps or the rich.... do we not have only ourselves to blame for not demanding term limts and other things that will help eliminate this problem?

    -- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Dec 6, 2009, at 11:53 AM
  • Beautiful Santa picture, Eric.

    City of Slater had a moment of fame tonight on CBS 60 Minutes, when Andy Rooney read a letter from a citizen of Slater. Yay!

    SA Slater--Gainesville FL is a day and a half drive from our NC balliwick.

    -- Posted by upsedaisy on Sun, Dec 6, 2009, at 8:14 PM
  • Motivation thru Intimidation does not work ..

    When the "coach" tries to motivate his team of STUDENTS by yelling, slapping them on the back of the head, throwing "F" bombs, and threatening them with "demotion" to the J.V. squad is not what we need, I would have thought our football program proved that...

    Motivation thru Intimidation creates fear. The person who uses this method is not offering a solution, just creating an atmosphere where fear of failure is high lited, people who use this method along with verbal abuse usually resort to this because they do not know what else to do.

    Focus on the positve, realize what you said, what do you think the kids on the J.V. squad think when you say that ! Is it a shame to be on the JV squad? or is the JV squad similar to the "practice squad " in the NFL, a place where you can go to work on specific areas, with repetition, where you need improvement.

    Please remember they are STUDENTS, at a vulnerable age, positive reinforcement will be listened to, yelling and intimidation will create resentment. Please consider this before your next practice .

    -- Posted by watchin in LA on Sun, Dec 6, 2009, at 9:50 PM
  • Upsedaisy, that 60 Minutes letter will surely make the Slater Main Street News! I'll alert my New Jersey pal to keep an eye out for it.

    I have a sister in Gainesville, FL, and I became curious about the distance. I would've guessed a few hundred miles.

    -- Posted by Slater on Sun, Dec 6, 2009, at 11:00 PM
  • newsacross... so because people NEED or WANT something and that happens to make people rich that makes it an obligation that they should pay more toward society?

    I dont disagree that people who make more money should contribute a little more, BUT shouldn't our government be required to live within its means instead of attempting to provide all things to all people and creating government dependent "slaves" that cannot or will not do the hard work and make the sacrifices that other people in similar situations have done in order to make a better economic situation for their selves?

    -- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Dec 7, 2009, at 12:32 AM
  • Columnist for daily newspaper makes point.

    "Franklin D. Roosevelt understood what it meant to be a core Democrat and to maintain his party's ranks.

    "He built winning coalitions around his policies by empowering previously suppressed groups, such as labor unions and urban ethnics. In the process, he created a 40-year dynasty for Democrats.

    "Today's bunch? Not so much.

    "The problem for FDR's party is that it hasn't adapted swiftly enough to two realities -- that JOBS are the most important issue to the nation, and that the MIDDLE CLASS (which Democrats claim to champion) is dissolving under its watch."


    -- Posted by AF Brat on Mon, Dec 7, 2009, at 2:50 AM
  • I am still a little more than steamed over the school's new policy of only picking up on hard surface roads in bad weather. If the roads are too bad to pick up some kids, for gosh sakes call off school! Is it really worth the lives that are at risk to have school?

    What is the difference if they have a few more snow days? I don't see why those who live on gravel roads are expected to find a way to a highway, just err on the safe side and call off school all together. Is it really safer to have more stops on the highway?

    The stop that my kids are expected to get on the bus, is dangerous in good weather. There have been several accidents there because of the hills and inability to see on coming traffic. The school district did not do any research on this or they would not ask a bus driver to stop there.

    My kids will not be going on bad days and my neighbors have said they are keeping thier kids at home as well.

    I know there have been times when the town kids could have gone when the gravel roads prevented the busses from running, but did that really hurt anyone? No, it did not. Someone will get hurt with this new policy!

    -- Posted by litlmissme on Mon, Dec 7, 2009, at 5:53 AM
    Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
    At the school board meeting, Superintendent Craig Noah said this policy would only be used in very specific and rare circumstances. He said if a storm shuts school down for several consecutive days and at some point hard surfaces can be safely traveled but gravel is still hazardous, then the district might use the policy in order to avoid losing more days of school (which have to be made up in the spring). If the policy is enacted, students who can't attend would get excused absences, he said. He said in his experience the situation has occurred once in about 10 years.
  • AFBrat - Would you agree that both political parties are a joke? The inhabitants' thinking is nothing like what was intended in the beginning. Times change, true enough, but the basis for problem-solving remains constant.

    Newspeople are as much of a joke as the politicians (no disrespect intended toward our esteemed MDN staff!).

    News reporting in general, but particularly political news, has degenerated to being nothing more than an exercise in stating opinions over facts.

    -- Posted by Slater on Mon, Dec 7, 2009, at 8:44 AM
  • Slater posted "Would you agree that both political parties are a joke?"

    That~s a question that answers itself. IMHO neither party has any political compass. They just spin around depending on the latest polling numbers. Because of technology, modern politicans can be, and are, followers of the herd; not leaders.

    Surprisingly, both parties do better when they lead but that~s too scary for any individual candidate. The manta of the politican consultant is "do nothing, promise everything." Otherwise, you are sure to lose someone~s vote.

    (Pardon the funny character for the aposthrope. This Slovenian keyboard is a ## to use.)

    -- Posted by AF Brat on Mon, Dec 7, 2009, at 10:15 AM
  • Has anyone heard why Dr. Smith was let go over the week-end. Seems like a loss for Marshall. He is a great physician and actually cared for his patients.

    -- Posted by tommob on Mon, Dec 7, 2009, at 11:25 AM
  • Hi all, I have a question" Does anyone know what the rights as a grandparent is to see and visit their grand kids? Mother moved on she says we can't be a part of her kids life any more that all they need is her parents and her boy friends mom.We have always been there for these kids and for her to keep them from our family it really hurts, so if I can get advice or something to help I would greatly appreciate it.

    -- Posted by nanaof5 on Mon, Dec 7, 2009, at 3:34 PM
  • http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C400-499/4520000402.HTM

    Most lawyers will give a free consultation, might be worth looking into. Good luck.

    -- Posted by Scarpetta on Mon, Dec 7, 2009, at 5:43 PM
  • Thank You for the articles I read them and if the judge were to ask the kids I bet mom would not like the answer cause the 2 older ones cry to come here and beg to stay but I tell them if there was something I could do I'd do but they have to go home,and that kills me but what else can I do.

    -- Posted by nanaof5 on Mon, Dec 7, 2009, at 6:56 PM
  • nanaof5:

    I'm not sure if this will be of any help to you or not, but here you go. I think they are for grandparent's rights too, or may know someone who is.

    ACFC is America's Shared Parenting Organization

    "Children Need Both Parents"


    Here's another site that may help, or be able to guide you to someone who can,


    Wishing you the best,

    -- Posted by Ray on Mon, Dec 7, 2009, at 11:14 PM
  • Viet Nam, Iraq, Afghanistan, no we never, ever, learn. It is impossible for us to "win" (whatever that means nowadays) in Afghanistan with the projected troop levels. Please read this if you think otherwise. http://blog.buzzflash.com/lindorff/300

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Dec 8, 2009, at 3:38 AM
  • I keep wondering when we're going to see something in the D-N about the ethics complaint filed against our local senator. No idea if it is valid or not, but I'd think he'd want to answer the allegations in his local paper.

    -- Posted by cmasretire on Tue, Dec 8, 2009, at 11:16 AM
    Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
    We've tried to contact key sources involved in the accusation, but so far, none have returned our calls.
  • Eric, I appreciate you trying to get info on this story. This might be all nothing but political mudslinging, but when Stouffer won't even grant the courtesy of returning your call, it makes one wonder a) is he hiding something, or b) does he have so little respect for the D-N that he won't even return your call. For someone who wants to represent us in Congress, you'd think he'd want to set the record straight....unless there is something to hide. Maybe he's doing a "Tiger Woods", i.e. hoping if he says nothing, then it will go away, but we all know that doesn't happen. Come on, Sen. Stouffer, what's your side of the story? Are your staff working illegally on your campaign? Are you misusing contributions? Do you have records disproving the allegations?

    -- Posted by cmasretire on Tue, Dec 8, 2009, at 5:11 PM
    Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
    I should have been more specific. I've always gotten a prompt response from Sen. Stouffer. I don't know that he's been called for comment yet (Kathy was working on this story). By "key sources" I should have specified the person who filed the complaint (our first stop), then the Skelton campaign (is the complaintant in any way affiliated?), then the Stouffer campaign and/or Sen. Stouffer. I'd rather have a more thorough understanding of the situation before getting his comment. If I'm cautious about this story it's only because filing ethics complaints *can* be an easy way to score unwarranted points against a political opponent. If the state or federal ethics commissions determine the complaint has merit, then we'll definitely give the issue coverage.
  • About the Stouffer thing. Look it up on missourinet. It seems you shouldn't spend money raised for State campaigns on the Federal level. There was something about misuse of staff.

    I just skimmed it. I grinned and went elsewhere. What goes around comes around.

    -- Posted by red dog on Tue, Dec 8, 2009, at 5:12 PM
  • We also haven't heard anything from the young man who filed the charges, nor anything from Cong. Skelton's campaign manager, after leaving phone messages for both of them.

    -- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, Dec 8, 2009, at 6:06 PM
  • Ike Skelton never disappoints. When the voting gets tough, he just stops voting...


    I am referring to the Nelson ammendment to the healthcare reform bill.

    Regardless of your views on abortion, how dare the government FORCE me to fund it regardless of my religious convictions.

    -- Posted by OMG! on Tue, Dec 8, 2009, at 7:28 PM
  • It's just another democrat smear attack on a good person to distract folk from the real old Ike Skelton and his "nothingness."

    -- Posted by Nonnymus on Tue, Dec 8, 2009, at 9:16 PM
  • Hey Hootowls! It's official! I've suspended the weather. No worries until after 01-01-10. :)

    Can you believe we've nearly chewed through the first decade of this century???

    I know shovels have become passe, so keep those snow throwers primed and at the ready!

    -- Posted by Slater on Wed, Dec 9, 2009, at 12:40 AM
  • More good news on the employment front. Employers are doing cartwheels over this latest news.

    We are in great shape so don't let those nay sayers get you down.

    Just look at this: http://www.theonion.com/content/news/labor_dept_available_labor_rate

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Dec 9, 2009, at 1:50 AM
  • OklahomaReader you are hilarious!!

    -- Posted by DAgates on Wed, Dec 9, 2009, at 1:23 PM
  • Tell them you are Catholic...It works everytime.

    -- Posted by tommob on Wed, Dec 9, 2009, at 3:23 PM
  • notgvnasht, tell them to leave and not come back. You don't owe anyone who comes to your door uninvited an explanation. Same goes for telemarketers. Life is too short to give your time away.

    -- Posted by born-n-raised on Wed, Dec 9, 2009, at 4:29 PM
  • I heard today that Sweeney-Reser-Wills Fueneral is going out of business? Any truth in that? These people said that they called there and tehy told them they was closing and couldn't help them?

    -- Posted by muzzled on Wed, Dec 9, 2009, at 5:44 PM
  • Say, "I wouldn't be interested,thank you," and close your door. I've never had any trouble with this approach.

    -- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Dec 9, 2009, at 7:18 PM
  • Notgivn - Get a No Soliciting sign and hang on the door.

    -- Posted by Slater on Wed, Dec 9, 2009, at 8:56 PM
  • ND: Hadn't seen fark, have now, funny. Prefer lampoon though, such as "the Onion". Gotta confess, I prefer virulent dark satire. Why? Because I'm a sicko. ;]

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Dec 9, 2009, at 11:54 PM
  • As Christmas approaches I am compelled to warn my fellow grand parents to not fall for the shenanigans of the little buggers. A recent study has proven that most of the little monsters are sociopathic, to wit: http://www.theonion.com/content/news/new_study_reveals_most_children

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Dec 10, 2009, at 12:14 AM
  • notgvn- I think it was Robin Williams who suggested that you meet them at the door and enthusiastically welcome them. Naked.

    Never tried it personally, but it would certainly make their day a bit less monotonous...

    -- Posted by thebirdman on Thu, Dec 10, 2009, at 12:15 AM
  • I think that if JW's came to my door, I would pretend I was just leaving, announce that I was Mormon, leaving on a mission, and did not have time to get reorganized right now.

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Dec 10, 2009, at 12:22 AM
  • Each time I have been approached I say, sorry I am not interested but I will pray to God for you to be saved, shut the door and watch them leave.

    -- Posted by litlmissme on Thu, Dec 10, 2009, at 5:26 AM
  • As I drove to work this morning it was hard not to notice all the kids in my neighborhood. Bundled up against the sub-zero windchill. Frozen little statues waiting on the school bus. Rosy cheeks, stinging fingers and labored breaths.

    Waiting still for a bus. All this while barely a block from building that is warm, safe and inviting. A building that used to be a neighborhood school. Alas, these freezing tykes were not welcome as they did not make the grade.

    Oh, the humanity!

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Dec 10, 2009, at 8:01 AM
  • Good for you, JOwnby! You should have pretty good success finding a home for your training.

    When I went to school over there, it used a trimester system, we rented the textbooks, and tuition was $110. a term. Then the big splash killed off the dinosaurs and things changed. :)

    -- Posted by Slater on Thu, Dec 10, 2009, at 4:29 PM
  • Sprechen sie Deutsch? :)

    -- Posted by Slater on Thu, Dec 10, 2009, at 5:46 PM
  • Hey Slater....ja und nein

    Father was in Germany in the military!

    -- Posted by nouveaublogger on Thu, Dec 10, 2009, at 9:32 PM
  • ....and like most any kind....i probably heard more nein, than ja! For my own good!

    -- Posted by nouveaublogger on Thu, Dec 10, 2009, at 9:39 PM
  • Hey NB! Ich verstehen! :)

    How are things? Getting ready for the holidays? How many days will school be in recess?

    I put a hold on the weather for Saline County, so you should experience a few days for short sleeves.

    -- Posted by Slater on Thu, Dec 10, 2009, at 10:39 PM
  • All you astronomers, check this out:


    This is a video view from the Hubble telescope looking back in time 13 BILLION years!

    -- Posted by Slater on Thu, Dec 10, 2009, at 10:45 PM
  • Slater,

    Am ready for Christmas, except for the baking and making of goodies. School will dismiss on Dec 22 and resume Jan 4. So, we will be spending Christmas here....then am taking a quick trip to Chicago, as my son can't get home this year, weather permitting. So...can you put a hold on that weather clear up to the Great Lakes? :-).

    It was sharply cold, here, last evening. Here's a good one for ya...

    98% of people who hit a patch of ice say, "Oh Sh...., the other 2% are from Missouri and they say..."hold my beer and watch this"!

    -- Posted by nouveaublogger on Thu, Dec 10, 2009, at 10:57 PM
  • NB - How remarkable it is that you know just what I used to say in my former life when it got slick!! :)

    I understand it's still snowing up there in or around the Windy City, but once that storm moves on I'll see what I can do.

    It was frightfully cold here last evening, too - 34 he said.

    Happy Holidays to you and the family if we don't see you here beforehand!

    -- Posted by Slater on Thu, Dec 10, 2009, at 11:27 PM
  • Slater,

    Yep....As I was turning in, the thermometer was reading 6, last evening

    Thanks for the well wishes and ditto, a blessed Christmas and New Year to you and yours.

    -- Posted by nouveaublogger on Thu, Dec 10, 2009, at 11:38 PM
  • My computer clock says it 12:11, and it's 12-11!!

    -- Posted by Slater on Fri, Dec 11, 2009, at 12:11 AM
  • I just have to chuckle everytime I hear on the news that if more tickets to the Chief's Sunday game are not sold there will be a blackout for our area!! Does anyone really care--we just might turn to it occasionally to see how bad the score REALLY is!!! If we did our job like the Chiefs do theirs--wouldn't be any need to worry about overproduction or too much food---and we certainly don't get paid like they do for doing a very-very poor job!!!!!

    -- Posted by farmerwife on Fri, Dec 11, 2009, at 2:19 PM
  • go ahead a black the chiefffffssssss out, lol, maybe we could what a better game !! :]

    -- Posted by gokinser11 on Fri, Dec 11, 2009, at 5:39 PM
  • watch !!!!!!!!!!!!

    -- Posted by gokinser11 on Fri, Dec 11, 2009, at 5:40 PM
  • -- Posted by Slater on Fri, Dec 11, 2009, at 6:45 PM
  • Hey Marshall! Have a very nice Xmas!

    -- Posted by Jo on Fri, Dec 11, 2009, at 6:49 PM
  • Never trust a politician. It is nice to see party doesn't affect the rule.

    "... [Senator] Harry Reid [D-NV] quietly inserted a loophole in the Senate health care bill that would let insurance companies put limits on medical care for folks struggling with costly illnesses -- angering patient advocates, and in apparent violation of a promise made by Obama this fall. ***

    "The news started making the rounds this morning after the Associated Press reported that a "tweak" to the Senate bill had been made, weakening a provision originally banning such limits. Advocates for patients protested that such a ban is a key consumer protection. *** "

    -- Posted by AF Brat on Sat, Dec 12, 2009, at 10:41 AM
  • AF Brat:

    You really thought the Libbie Politicians CARED about people? lol

    On the note of caring about people.... Are you all reading about the "safe" school Czar Kevin Jennings and all the information about his radical gay agenda? It is disgusting and scary that a President of our great nation would have the audacity to appoint a person such as this, especially in a position that has the potential to influence every child in our nation.

    Just another example of the radical leanings Obama has and the apathetic nature of our Congress and our citizens for that matter

    -- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Dec 12, 2009, at 9:21 PM
  • Mari Del Carmen Aponte's nomination as President Clinton's ambassador to the Dominican Republic had to be withdrawn in 1998 when the late Sen. Jesse Helms let it be known he had an intelligence memo examining her connections to Communist Cuba's spy agency.

    On Wednesday, after years of giving many thousands of dollars to Democratic Party candidates and causes, Aponte has been nominated as U.S. ambassador to El Salvador by President Obama, who said her "depth of experience ... will be valuable to my administration as we work to bring about real change for the American people."

    Aponte is a lawyer and longtime friend of Secretary of State Hillary Clinton who served on Bill Clinton's White House transition team in 1993. A 1998 Insight Magazine article said, "while routinely monitoring Cuban intelligence officers at the Cuban Interests Section in Washington, the FBI discovered that a member of President Clinton's White House transition team may have been recruited as a spy for Fidel Castro."

    -- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Dec 12, 2009, at 9:35 PM
  • MrXray, you say she "may" have been recruited as a spy? And Jesse Helms "may" have been paranoid, bordering on schizophrenia, for all we know.

    I'd be willing to bet there's a bit of larceny in every government employee. It doesn't mean we should turn our backs, but we can't ignore wrongdoing when it's brought to light.

    I've noticed that those who are accused of some impropriety usually give up whatever they have or are seeking, like the guy who Obama had tabbed for HHS secretary, for example. Probably more the case of withdrawing from a job appointment. It seems once they're in, they just about have to commit murder before they're booted out.

    Congress has done a pretty fair job of shielding itself from public scrutiny. About the only control we have is to vote them out, and that doesn't seem to be a very real alternative, since most people are so apathetic, including many voters who never bother to try and learn about candidates.

    I think Jo had a point when he said it seems our only option is to begin a protest movement.

    -- Posted by Slater on Sat, Dec 12, 2009, at 11:57 PM
  • Anyone who missed the Community Chorus/MHS singers concert last night will have a second chance today at 3 p.m., First Baptist Church in Marshall. Anybody who thinks this is just a bunch of locals singing Christmas carols should check it out. It's a bunch of locals filling the sanctuary with soaring harmonies and beautiful Christmas melodies. I admit I don't know that much about music, but they sound professional to me. Inspiring! They got a standing ovation from a full house last night. Go!

    -- Posted by Eric Crump on Sun, Dec 13, 2009, at 10:19 AM
  • I'm still tryin to figure out about sweeney funeral home...my grandpa has paid some money in there for his funeral...if they go out of business where is his money going? someone please give me some info on this.

    -- Posted by muzzled on Sun, Dec 13, 2009, at 1:36 PM
    Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
    An ad was placed in the paper suggesting the Sweeney Reser is going out of business, but we don't have any details and can't tell you who to contact regarding arrangements already made. Will try to find out more this week.
  • I believe Duane Wills would be the one to contact at Sweener-Reser-Wills Funeral Home.

    -- Posted by nouveaublogger on Sun, Dec 13, 2009, at 4:19 PM
  • Ive called them several times in the last month tring to figure out what we should do but no one ever calls back.

    -- Posted by muzzled on Sun, Dec 13, 2009, at 5:30 PM
  • David Sirota on moral hazards, and consequences:

    We must penalize those who create moral hazards. Those like Bernanke, and Geitner. Even worse are the moral hazards created by the Administration, and Congress by rewarding the formers' failure.


    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Dec 14, 2009, at 12:29 AM
  • Top ten Bart Simpson chalk board punishments (at the beginning of the Simpson Show). Note that these poke fun at politics left, and right. Something for everyone. Fair and balanced. Well, maybe the humor is slightly unbalanced, but that is just Bart.


    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Dec 14, 2009, at 12:47 AM
  • Thanks Oklahoma Reader, I needed a good laugh to start my day off. Gotta love Bart..."don't have a cow man"! :)

    -- Posted by Scarpetta on Mon, Dec 14, 2009, at 10:18 AM
  • Does the MDN not know that Kurtis Gregory won the Lowe's National college athlete award!! Haven't seen anything in the paper about it YET-----

    -- Posted by farmerwife on Mon, Dec 14, 2009, at 10:50 AM
    Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
    I didn't know it. Thanks for the information.
  • It's been almost a year since there was conversation by a few about giving up smoking.

    Any success stories to report? :)

    -- Posted by Slater on Mon, Dec 14, 2009, at 11:33 AM
  • It's been 5 years and 8 months since I quit. Notgivin is right, you have to want to quit. There isn't a day that goes by that I don't think about it or want one. Some days the urge is strong, then other day's it isn't so bad.

    The days that I think - "just one puff is all I need and poof my stress is gone" - are the days that I need to just take a walk.

    -- Posted by Scarpetta on Mon, Dec 14, 2009, at 1:05 PM
  • Please excuse the awful spelling and grammar on my previous post, an edit feature would be helpful. :)

    -- Posted by Scarpetta on Mon, Dec 14, 2009, at 1:06 PM
  • To all those who are quitting smoking--wanting to quit---tried to quit;

    I began to quit September 9, 1989. I have not had any tobacco between my lips or in my mouth since. Note, I began to quit smoking---I firmly believe, quitting is an everyday/every hour challenge. It only takes 1 (one) to go back. By the grace of God, I am continuing to quit smoking!!!

    -- Posted by CWilli on Mon, Dec 14, 2009, at 1:54 PM
  • To those who have to date "quit smoking" I offer my congratulations. Never smoked--hated it with a passion. I feel it contributed to the early deaths of people that I loved.

    I hope that those who have quit or want to quit consider setting aside the money that you would have spent on smoking. Perhaps think of it as an "emergency fund". Find yourself tempted? Spend a little on a treat for yourself. You deserve it.

    -- Posted by upsedaisy on Mon, Dec 14, 2009, at 3:14 PM
  • I tossed my cigarettes Jan. 6, so I've been successful for almost a year. This is not the first attempt and as upsedaisy and Scarpetta said, it's tough. I'm not thrilled with the extra weight it's brought me, but that's gradually being conquered, too.

    -- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Mon, Dec 14, 2009, at 3:55 PM
  • I'm seconding Upsedaisy's congratulations to everyone who has kicked the habit.

    I quit in June 1984 and now I can't stand the smell of burning tobacco. I'm not grumpy about others who smoke; instead, I just do my best to avoid the places where it goes on.

    Stopping was easy for me, but I know it isn't easy for many, and I agree that wanting to quit makes it a lot easier.

    All of you who are contemplating quitting, keep looking forward, knowing you're giving your body a better go at being healthy. :)

    -- Posted by Slater on Mon, Dec 14, 2009, at 4:17 PM
  • I quit smoking 6 years ago, after smoking for 30 years. It is the toughest thing I have endured in my life, other than having the two heart attacked that made me quit.

    I thank God everyday for the ability to quit and extend my life to be with my family!

    You will never hear me say it was easy, but it has been worth it.

    In those six years I have seen four grandchilren born. Something I am so happy I was here to experience!

    -- Posted by litlmissme on Mon, Dec 14, 2009, at 5:42 PM
  • My Christmas present to myself in 1983 was to quit smoking. It has stuck and after many years of yearning and craving I no longer have any desire for a smoke. Can't stand the smell any more. Slater - I'm with you, I don't complain, I just move on...

    -- Posted by broke-n-busted on Mon, Dec 14, 2009, at 7:18 PM
  • Congratulations to Kathy and all the others who are successful in their efforts to cease smoking. Like losing pounds, it's a never ending daily fight.

    -- Posted by AF Brat on Tue, Dec 15, 2009, at 4:04 AM
  • This, amazingly, is from the Daily Kos himself:

    "Insurance companies win. Time to kill this monstrosity (Pelosi-Reid) coming out of the Senate."

    The political world has turned upside down!


    -- Posted by AF Brat on Tue, Dec 15, 2009, at 4:21 AM
  • So what if I want to buy a "fake" purse!!! I was amazed to find out today that the "government" is now deciding for me that I can not buy a knock off item!! What if I want to buy the generic cereal instead of the name brand? Will they strip that from the shelves next? Search Operation Holiday Hoax Marshall.

    -- Posted by freckles on Tue, Dec 15, 2009, at 5:25 AM
  • freckles: There's a huge difference between a generic brand of breakfast cereal, which is legal, and a cheap purse being sold under an expensive label, which is not. If you were the manufacturer whose goods were being ripped off this way, you'd take a different view.

    -- Posted by Miss Marple on Tue, Dec 15, 2009, at 5:50 AM
  • I'm with you, freckles. It's not the government's job to protect us from ourselves. If we want to buy fake stuff peddled as the real thing, that should be our choice. Besides, if the government manages to protect us too well, what's going to happen to the scam industry? Do they realize just how many people are employed by the scam industry? I say unemployment is high enough. Leave the scammers alone!

    -- Posted by taxedpayer on Tue, Dec 15, 2009, at 7:31 AM
  • I think the big issue with the "fake stuff" is that the consumer needs to be aware that it is "fake stuff" prior to purchase.

    Have a great day!


    -- Posted by missy08 on Tue, Dec 15, 2009, at 7:37 AM
  • In this case...I was PERFECTLY AWARE i was buying a knock off. They were never advertised as being real. In regards to cereal being a different circumstance well frosted flakes and frosty flakes are the same thing.

    -- Posted by freckles on Tue, Dec 15, 2009, at 8:00 AM
  • It's illegal to copy the work of someone else and sell it as if it's your own - that's the law. Whether you know it's fake or not, you are still allowing the thief to profit from the theft.

    If you have an original, trademarked idea for a product, make it, market it and sell it, you will not, I guarantee, be delighted if your next-door neighbor, using your product name and idea and spending nothing to market it (because you've already done that for him), then sells his product (which he sold as "yours") and keeps the money. You've done all the work and deserve to profit. Surely you don't agree your neighbor has a right to do this?

    -- Posted by Miss Marple on Tue, Dec 15, 2009, at 8:22 AM
  • Freckles said

    "In this case...I was PERFECTLY AWARE I was buying a knock off. They were never advertised as being real. In regards to cereal being a different circumstance well frosted flakes and frosty flakes are the same thing."

    Ok freckles first the patent on frosted flakes is for the process and it has expired 6 times since 1915, there is a difference in a patent and a trade mark.

    Who ever makes frosty flakes has to use a different process and can not infringe on the name that is the trade mark, now there is a very real chance that the same company makes both products and they are just sold under different names.

    Second buy you knowingly buying a counterfeit product you are just as guilty as the person making them and selling them and you should get be arrested in my opinion!!!!

    -- Posted by OldOwlFan on Tue, Dec 15, 2009, at 9:05 AM
  • Me along with THOUSANDS of others then.....

    -- Posted by freckles on Tue, Dec 15, 2009, at 10:08 AM
  • what store in Marshall was raided?

    -- Posted by momaster on Tue, Dec 15, 2009, at 11:13 AM
    Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
    We're working on a story about the situation and will have it ready soon.
  • Me along with THOUSANDS of others then.....

    This is whats wrong with this country right now so many people want something that someone else worked hard to make!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    -- Posted by OldOwlFan on Tue, Dec 15, 2009, at 11:50 AM
  • Here is a link to KCTV5. Some interesting information in this short video regarding "Operation Holiday Hoax".


    -- Posted by missy08 on Tue, Dec 15, 2009, at 12:16 PM
  • Hey Freckles what ya going to do whe they come for you................LOL

    Read the story about the retail business here in Marshall and see if you think it should still be all right!!!!!!!!!!!!

    -- Posted by OldOwlFan on Tue, Dec 15, 2009, at 1:29 PM
  • Here's good advice from Betty Boop during this brisk weather:


    -- Posted by Slater on Tue, Dec 15, 2009, at 11:06 PM
  • So much talk about what the health care bill, as it stands, does, or doesn't do. Here it is in an easy to read nutshell. This should allow most of us to know what we are actually discussing.

    Some good, some bad, decide for yourself whether to support it or not. I withhold my own opinion.


    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Dec 16, 2009, at 1:26 AM
  • Posted by old owl fan:

    This is whats wrong with this country right now so many people want something that someone else worked hard to make!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Maybe like a football team????

    -- Posted by freckles on Wed, Dec 16, 2009, at 5:45 AM
  • wonder if they are still selling designer knock off sunglasses uptown at the eye doctor? hmmmmmm

    -- Posted by freckles on Wed, Dec 16, 2009, at 6:24 AM
  • Hey, notgvnasht - obviously, you don't have a clue about trademark or copyright law, and don't care. But you are utterly wrong on this issue. The problem is not that you buy a different brand of ATV, for example, instead of the more-expensive Honda. Fine, do that, as long as it's not sold to you as a Honda, nobody has a problem with that. It's when the label says Honda and that's what you think you're buying, when you're really buying something manufactured on the cheap by someone else, that the law steps in, as it has done here, and as it should.

    If you were the manufacturer of some product, I think you might get a clearer picture of the situation when someone other than you profits from something you dreamed up and marketed. Then, I predict, you'd be the one at the head of the line screaming, "Hang 'em!"

    -- Posted by Miss Marple on Wed, Dec 16, 2009, at 1:07 PM
  • Here's a good reason to think about gun control. :)


    -- Posted by Slater on Wed, Dec 16, 2009, at 3:39 PM
  • IIRC, we have not one but TWO contenders in Saline County who could be up for for the TV-shooter award.

    -- Posted by Miss Marple on Wed, Dec 16, 2009, at 4:35 PM
  • Dear Marshall School Board:

    What part of NO do you not understand?

    -- Posted by wizzer on Wed, Dec 16, 2009, at 7:48 PM
  • Dear Wizzer,

    What part of YES do you not understand?

    Our kids and teachers need better facilities. I don't personally care whether we build new schools or completely rehab the old ones, but either way it's going to cost a bunch of money.

    Here's what a "no" vote says to me. It says you're not willing to take responsibility for one of your community's greatest assets.

    I hope the board keeps putting this on the ballot until it passes.

    -- Posted by taxedpayer on Wed, Dec 16, 2009, at 9:41 PM
  • I was wondering if any of the readers heard the Oratory by Keith Olbermann, MSNBC, COUNTDOWN,Tonite? He got it exactly right on our Representative , even our President! This could be America at it's worst! this Health Care Bill they are trying to cram down our Throat's stinks and they know it! Howard Dean said it the way it should be said! Turn it down ! What ever happend to the Protester's of the 60 's ? We need them and another J, EDGER HOOVER , To keep an eye on all these Politician's! They were scared of him,and i do think he kept them a little more Honest & Ethical! The Republicans are using every tactic in the book to keep this Country down, Religious Rallies. There's no shame with these People!! And if the People buy it, It will prove my point about People's will being broken! That's a Sad ,Sad thing!

    -- Posted by Jo on Wed, Dec 16, 2009, at 10:49 PM
  • Maybe like a football team????

    -- Posted by freckles on Wed, Dec 16, 2009, at 5:45 AM

    Would you care to tell what your talking about

    wonder if they are still selling designer knock off sunglasses uptown at the eye doctor? hmmmmmm

    -- Posted by freckles on Wed, Dec 16, 2009, at 6:24 AM

    If they are selling counterfeit products then they should be in trouble also period!!

    If they are selling knock offs under a diffrent name then are not breaking any laws.

    -- Posted by OldOwlFan on Thu, Dec 17, 2009, at 8:37 AM
  • notgvnasht there is a world of diffrence in counterfeit and knock-offs.

    But notgvnasht this is easy your name for this site says it all!!!!!

    -- Posted by OldOwlFan on Thu, Dec 17, 2009, at 8:50 AM
  • I can't believe it. I'm agreeing with Howard Dean.

    "The former Democratic Party Chairman argued Wednesday that the health care overhaul bill taking shape in the Senate further empowers private insurers at the expense of consumer choice.

    "'You will now be forced to buy insurance. If you don't, you'll pay a fine,' said Dean, a physician. 'It's an insurance company bailout.'

    "Dean asserted that the Senate's health care bill would not prohibit insurance companies from denying coverage for preexisting conditions and he also said it would allow the industry to charge older people far more than others for premiums."

    He means that it would do everything Obama promised that it wouldn't. Whoops!

    -- Posted by AF Brat on Thu, Dec 17, 2009, at 8:52 AM
  • This one is for all of you workshop junkies who like to make things or for those of you who just enjoy seeing what others make:


    -- Posted by Slater on Thu, Dec 17, 2009, at 9:51 AM
  • notgvnasht is giving advice on calming down? What next? The sun rising in the west?

    -- Posted by Miss Marple on Thu, Dec 17, 2009, at 3:42 PM
  • What some seem to misunderstand is that a knockoff is a product that is presenting itself as the real thing. It is something that is sold as a brand name but truly is not. Designer merchandise is supposed to be strictly made by the company to whom the designer gave the contract. There are many copies out there that don't carry the actual designer name, but look like the real thing. If you are smart enough and informed enough to know the difference then so be it. As long as they don't profess to be the actual item then more power to them if they can dupe the igornant.

    -- Posted by Tontonnii on Thu, Dec 17, 2009, at 4:10 PM
  • Just been wondering about the accident last Saturday that the trooper was going to??? I have not seen any report about it.

    -- Posted by SalineGran on Thu, Dec 17, 2009, at 6:11 PM
  • Goodbye Marshall Mo I shake the dust off my shoes never to return! Goodbye and good riddance!

    -- Posted by GodIsSoGoodToMe on Thu, Dec 17, 2009, at 9:25 PM
  • I believe the following link is a worthwhile read for all of us left or right who feel that we have been thrown off the bus, and then run over by the current Administration in Washington, as well as the one that preceded it.

    I am angry to the point that I will not vote for anyone who voted for the revitalization of the rich with the bailout of the financial giants.

    Hardly anything has been done for small business people who are starved for capital. I will not vote for anyone who has ignored that problem.

    I am so angry that I will not vote for anyone who with a straight face supports the abomination of a healthcare change that is about to be foisted upon us. It does much more for big health companies than it does for me, and my fellow Americans.

    I will not vote for anyone who continues to support nation building in Iraq, and Afghanistan, while ignoring nation building in America as they watch it fall apart.

    Afghanistan is the illegal drug provider to the world. The government of that country is full of drug dealers, and corrupt in many other ways. Why do we support that morally bankrupt government?

    The real terrorism we should be fighting is the terror felt by ordinary Americans desperately hanging on in decaying cities, grieving as they see the abandonment of our towns, and as they watch corporations, and rich absentee landlords devour our farm land. All fearing the loss of their livelihood. All fearing what sort of country this will be for their children, and grandchildren. That is terror.

    That doesn't leave many people for me to support, and possibly none for whom I can cast my own vote. After the betrayal in this last election I realize I have not lost as much as I once would have because my vote is relatively meaningless on a national level. The truth is that today dollars count much more than votes. All I can do is send my few spare dollars to those few champions, wherever they are in our nation, whether on the left, or the right who have an angry populist streak in them, and have not fallen at the feet of the corporatists. At this point my few dollars properly placed are worth more than my ignored vote.

    Please read the attached link. Did you know that one of our once proud major cities has an actual unemployment rate of nearly fifty percent? http://rawstory.com/2009/12/kucinich-class-war-working-people-lost/

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Dec 18, 2009, at 1:47 AM
  • Hey readers....for those of you who have jobs, does your employer do anything special for employees for Christmas? Meals, cards, whatever?

    Interested in hearing from you.

    -- Posted by momaster on Fri, Dec 18, 2009, at 12:18 PM
  • Well...I still haven't heard back from duane wills about what to do about my grampas stuff with them. my wife said that they sold the funeral home at the courthouse in marshall yesterday?

    -- Posted by muzzled on Fri, Dec 18, 2009, at 2:03 PM
  • muzzled - I would suggest that if the sum of money you are talking about amounts to much you should contact a lawyer. If there is a bankruptcy involved sometimes first in line matters. I don't know if there is a bankruptcy involved here or not but a lawyer could find out for you.

    -- Posted by broke-n-busted on Fri, Dec 18, 2009, at 4:28 PM
  • Muzzled...are you certain that your grandfather's prepaid funeral expenses was not through an insurance policy that they sold through Sweeney-Reser-Wills funeral home? He should have some paper work involved with this. I would check that out and possibly another funeral home might honor that policy, it will pay them instead. This is what happened with my mother's funeral expenses.

    -- Posted by nouveaublogger on Fri, Dec 18, 2009, at 4:38 PM
  • Oklahoma Reader it is very evident that you are upset and rightly so. You have been lied to. Betrayed. Fed to the Wall Street wolves, if you will. I didn't believe Obama to begin with and I don't like much of what he has done. I am sure it is much more difficult to take if you actually believed the man.

    But I am not writing to gloat - my pig is just as skint' as yours. (Only a Missourian can say that to another Missourian.) Actually, I'm not entirely sure why I am writing. Maybe to just suggest that you lean back in your chair and scratch your faithful dogs' ears and unwind a bit. Maybe it is to agree that Kucinich would have been a better choice than Obama. Probably better than McCain too. Problem is Mr. Kucinich didn't tell us what we wanted to hear. There was no "yes we can" chant. No practiced cadence. No wide, friendly smile. No lies. He spoke the truth and the truth doesn't always set you free. The truth can be down right ugly sometimes and we never want to hear ugly unless it is the latest hapless billionaire athlete about to get strung up....

    So, Oklahoma Reader, you and I, we've been lied to before. We've never taken the collective monetary beating that we have taken this time around and that may be the hardest part for the country as a whole to recover from but we will recover. Perhaps Americans will be a little more shrewd. Perhaps when we hear a politician like Kucinich telling us what we don't really want to hear we might listen. I hope so. We have some really difficult issues in front of us right now and they won't get better without hard work and leadership with a purpose and direction - but isn't that what leadership is?

    Health care is what is on the table at the moment but if we don't address the climate issues we have there might not be anybody around to worry about taking care of. I know, rather un-Republican of me to believe in global warming and all but I do believe and I think it is one of those things that we would rather hear someone tell us "yes we can" and not fret about it. But what is at stake is mankind's' very existence! Not a couple trillion dollars handed to those that need it the least but a place where we all wake up and breath every day. That is something that cannot be toyed with.

    And our problem? Who is going to lead us through that? It can't be a Republican. They don't even believe there is a problem. Can't be a Democrat. You can't get a handful of Democrats to agree on how to walk across the street. So who?

    I don't know either - I think I'll go home and see if my dog is glad to see me.

    -- Posted by broke-n-busted on Fri, Dec 18, 2009, at 5:26 PM
  • I'm not giving up on Obama just yet. He's been to Quite through all this. He could have something up his sleeve. He's to smart a Man to act like this for nothing,maybe not, we'll see??

    -- Posted by Jo on Fri, Dec 18, 2009, at 11:15 PM
  • I am not sure how smart Obama is.... you think he has been quiet?

    If he has MORE up his sleeve the US is definitely in for more trouble and trials.

    They are already working on a huge spending bill to attempt to spend money to create jobs and we all know that the government CANNOT do that efficiently, particularly right now with all the rampant corruption and waste/fraud.

    I wish he would just be quiet... lol

    -- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Dec 19, 2009, at 4:18 AM
  • I just found out why the AARP supports the Reid-Pelosi bill. AARP is an "affiliate" of a huge health care INSURANCE company.

    Howard Dean is correct. The bill is a hidden steal by the insurance companies fropm our grandchildren (and us).

    -- Posted by AF Brat on Sat, Dec 19, 2009, at 5:26 AM
  • AARP is more about insurance profits than about championing the causes of retired folk. They sell insurance for your car, truck, or motorcycle, plus their mainstay, lucrative health insurance products.

    -- Posted by Cat13 on Sat, Dec 19, 2009, at 8:29 AM
  • Cat13, I couldn't agree more with your assessment of AARP. I was a member for several years but stopped renewing about four years ago. They're still sending me renewal notices.

    I don't have any knowledge of what AARP was like in its earlier years, but now it's nothing more than an an organization intending to put money in the pockets of its staff for doing nothing to live up to its mission statement.

    -- Posted by Slater on Sat, Dec 19, 2009, at 10:46 AM
  • I really hate the way things are going. More and more and more government control. People do NOT want to be responsible for their own needs and actions. Give me, give me, give me.

    If Obama were so smart he would be trying to work with the many that don't want government control rather than pushing it down our throats. His first interest would be this country (USA) not China and Iran. Has no back bone when it comes to standing up for us. Just wants to talk it over while Iran puts the nukes together. Then there are the bribes to Congress for votes!

    -- Posted by silverdollar on Sat, Dec 19, 2009, at 2:52 PM
  • AARP has turned into a political organization. They have the fat cats to prove it. What are they doing for the rest of us? They are an insurance company that wants to control the way we vote. I have not been a member for years and weekly I get junk mail from them and sometimes a magazine. They should save the postage...I won't join again.

    -- Posted by silverdollar on Sat, Dec 19, 2009, at 2:59 PM
  • There is absolutely NO such thing as less

    Government! They have their nose's in everything the American People do, and there is no way you will stop them, short of a Revolution! But when they are able to control your mind, is the Danger. They are real close to accomplishing that!in my opinion. When they can stop Health Care in it's track's like they have.The People wanted this in the beginning,because it's good for every one.Common sense will tell you that! The Majority of the People still want it, but a few of the Brainwashed can stop it! Unbelievable to me ! Like i've heard before ,and it stuck with me, THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE TO DUMB TO BE GOVERAND! If you can't see equalizing Health Care ,is a good thing, we are getting very close to something vary bad for Humanity! These leaders have to be taken down with our Vote,or you will find your home invaded by Technology ,and every move you make,if it isen't already! They can tell you things about yourself you didn't know! Is this what we want? Its insane for People not have a backbone, and Scepticism on every thing the thugs tell us!!

    -- Posted by Jo on Sat, Dec 19, 2009, at 4:43 PM
  • I'd sure like to see the voters send packing every "lawmaker" who votes FOR the health care "reform," as well as those who don't vote at all.

    I hope the American public isn't so far gone that it turns its back on Washington, which is probably what those monkeys up there are counting on.

    The pollsters need shaping up as well. They avoid the questions needing to be asked the most, in my opinion. The polls are as worthless as the members of our Washington DC Clown College.

    -- Posted by Slater on Sat, Dec 19, 2009, at 9:31 PM
  • Obama has been too quiet through all of this??!?!

    funniest thing i've heard in ages!!

    the man has never met a teleprompter or tv ad or commercial or white house speech or oprah special he didn't love! he's in our face, 24-7-365 ... oh wait ... there was that one teleprompter that collapsed, probably out of the sheer weight of crap that's coming out of it. "jo" obviously from her two posts doesn't have a clue what is going on.

    oklahoma reader, i completely agree with pretty much everything you said. you've been lied to. you've been sold a bill of goods. it's amateur hour in the white house. these people are weak, incompetent, inexperienced and VERY dangerous for this country. they've always been selling a pile of pathetic horse manure.

    WAKE UP america and see what's going on! every tin-pot two-bit dictator in the world is seeing obama as weak and taking advantage of it. his words, although very eloquent at times, mean absolutely nothing. NO credibility, he's getting laughed at abroad, wants everyone to like him and it'll all better.

    health care? let's just buy everyone's vote, don't care how the people feel, we're the elites and know what is best. ram it down their throats. i HATE that attitude.

    this is NOT america. not the one i know, not the one i grew up in. i choked hard and voted for mccain because i saw the fakeness that is obama, but this country needs to wake up and see what they're trying to do to US. it's all about power ... they don't care about what's good for the country, it's all about power to them ... aka chavez, ahmadjenipuke and others. how does that sound, putting obama's name in the same breath and comparison to chavez, ahmadjenipuke, and others? we're better than this!

    i'm beyond furious, especially with the buying-off of ben nelson's vote today. medicaid for his entire state at the u.s. government's expense for the REST OF ETERNITY is pretty much what he got in trade for his vote. he pretty much just sold his soul to help just his state, not his country. and here it comes ... what about us in missouri? what about every other state? they're going to want to be bought off as well. oh wait, louisiana has already had that they don't need to be bought off again.

    this stuff is PATHETIC. we are better than this as a country! these clowns we have in washington, both democrat and republican, need to be gone. pathetic harry reid. gone. nancy pelosi. gone. i can say that about many others. as oklahoma reader pretty much summed it up, anyone who voted for the farce that is going on now ... GONE.

    they think our anger will fade? hardly. election year coming up, and if you thought last august's town halls were energized, wait til you see this next august in an election year! my prediction is that all these clowns will do what Ike has done ... go hide away and not have any. that will seal their fate.

    ram this health care bill down our throats when harry reid and his clowns have the 60 votes yet haven't even released the bill to be seen by anyone, want to sneak it through on the weekend before christmas, and then vote on it on christmas eve ... hello people! what's going on here??!?!?

    democrat and republican alike, we're all getting hosed by these people! you should be mad as hell and not taking it anymore. i logged onto the demo news website tonight and checked out the messages left by readers, and was shocked ... those whose opinions i have completely differed with in the past, and those whose i have agreed with ... seem to by and large be in agreement that this country is headed in the wrong direction and headed down the obama toilet. the anti-obama rhetoric is astounding.

    that shocked me, seeing that from many on here who were previous ardent obama supporters. i sense unity. we're better than this crap being force-fed on us! c'mon america, WAKE UP to what is being done to you. remember, we're all still one country and better than any other country ever formed. it'll take more than barack islama to tear us apart ... i hope.

    -- Posted by aikman8 on Sun, Dec 20, 2009, at 12:50 AM
  • Here is just another of many ways that the Obama Administration apes the Bush Administration. They are fighting the allowance of drug imports from Canada. That is one thing that would help us control medical costs. http://www.buzzflash.net/story.php?id=1058791

    The hypocritical shills for corporate America (Republican and Democrat) con the American people into The World Trade Organization, and NAFTA, stating that the open trade will increase competition, and result in better prices for the American people. Then they reverse themselves, eat there own words, and say "oh no we didn't mean a free market on drugs'.

    Few of them give a **** about the welfare of the American people. They care about their corporate masters. Harry Reid, Mitch McConnell, Joe Lieberman, they all lick the boots of their corporate masters. It is astounding that the policies of George W. Bush, and Barak Obama, are so similar in so many ways that jeopardize the well being of our citizenry.

    I predict that in 2010 we will throw them all out on their ear.

    Say good bye Ike, but don't get smug Stouffer. We are watching where your money comes from. We need a new group of independent candidates who will represent what will be the largest body of American voters, the independents.

    We will have to pay close attention to find such independent candidates. They won't have the advertising money of corporate shills.

    Watch your primary candidates closely, never vote for the candidate in the primary whose advertising is in front of you the most. That candidate is already owned by someone else, and does not deserve your vote.

    We will fight back. We are mad as hell, and this time really won't take it anymore.

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Dec 20, 2009, at 2:03 AM
  • Aikman 8: Like your sprite ,this is what we need from all Americans! It's the only way to get too these Morons, or maybe i should call them, Slick Thugs! Oklahoma & Aikman 8, Slater, i like the way you think!

    -- Posted by Jo on Sun, Dec 20, 2009, at 3:18 AM
  • President Obama hasn't had anywhere near enough time in the 10 months or so he's been in office to just name all the problems in this country, let alone figure out how to solve them. It would be far better for us to get behind him and help than it is to insist that things should already be better.

    It's a lot like losing weight - a person doesn't get to be 50 pounds overweight in just a few months, and it will take a lot more than just a few months to get back to something resembling normal. And we are more like 100 pounds overweight, that's a fact.

    -- Posted by Miss Marple on Sun, Dec 20, 2009, at 8:51 AM
  • From UPI.COM:

    "Obama...won by a 6-point margin in the popular vote, 52 percent to 46 percent, over Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz. He eclipsed President George W. Bush's 2004 record to win more votes than any other individual in American history. Some 62,438,115 people cast their ballots for him."

    If you want to blame someone for the current state of affairs, look to the Congress. After the historic win described above, Congress looked up, shrugged its collective shoulders, yawned, look very bored, and went back to business as usual, ignoring what the American people, by their votes, asked them to do. And they are still doing that. There used to be a loyal opposition in Congress - now there is only opposition and no loyalty at all, except to themselves and the continuation of ruinous policies that will sink this country if they're not changed. No President, by himself, can do that.

    -- Posted by Miss Marple on Sun, Dec 20, 2009, at 10:02 AM
  • MissMarple, you've succinctly stated the condition and circumstances of the affairs in Washington, D.C., and I, for one, completely agree.

    Earlier today I was thinking back to events during the campaign, remembering how much so many of us were hoping for meaningful change to our political way of life and believing we finally had a candidate who appeared to be aligned with our hopes and aspirations for a better America.

    I'm extremely disappointed by the (in)action of our legislators who, as you stated, are totally indifferent to the plight of the citizenry as well as to the real welfare of the country itself. It's shameful, disgusting, and it angers me that they're at the center of the "Me First" attitude, every year taking steps to distance themselves farther and farther from their responsibilities to the American people.

    I continue to believe (maively perhaps) that Obama sincerely believes his course of action is what's needed the most and the manner in which he's gone about dealing with the issues is the most adequate, but at the same time I wonder if he's beginning to accept the reality that he commands no unified audience on the Hill.

    It's a cinch to me that our problems won't be solved unless the administration receives all the support it can get from the public and most particularly from Congress, ALL 535 of them.

    If our present group of legislators don't care enough to do what's right and proper for the welfare of this nation and its people, why are we keeping them there?

    Are we so far down the path of self-absorption that we choosoe to ignore our own responsibilities?

    -- Posted by Slater on Sun, Dec 20, 2009, at 12:04 PM
  • Mss Marple:

    As most can tell from my posts I am not and have not ever been an Obama supporter.

    BUT, if as you stated, 10 months is not enough time for Obama to take control of the economy and of the problems in our nation, exactly how many months WOULD be enough time?

    Since I feel like Obama and the left/liberal/progressive agenda is wrong for our nation, even more so due to our POOR ECONOMY and severe JOB LOSS, why should I think that people should just give Obama MORE time to push those economically harmful policies?

    I know it is the "in" thing to continue to blame Bush for all the problems and thus continue to give Obama a pass, but the fact remains that Obama is the President and since the election and before he was inaugurated Obama has been pushing his policies in the direction he wanted them to be pushed.

    He needs to man up and take personal responsibility of what he is doing, he HAS had enough time to review things and make them his own and he has done this.... he just continues to choose to publically say he has only been in office a short time, therefore nothing is his doing....I do not recall a recent president that has done this.... not even Bush when he inhereted a small recession from Clinton

    -- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Dec 20, 2009, at 5:03 PM
  • News Across: I am not going to debate if we are in a depression or not. We are at least at the tipping point. Either we are going to continue with bad Economic policy and continue having growing UNEMPLOYMENT rates and our economy will continue to worsen, or if we switch to a economic policy that actually stimulates growth of jobs we can gradually ease out of our recession. If we enact a horribly corrupt health care bill that is contingent on coercion and bribery instead of REAL solutions to the problem, crap and tax policies and more and more government entitlements and control, then we will be in a depression for a long time.

    I think with your rather simplistic view of the economic crash you totally disregard the DEMOCRATIC policy, the LIBERAL policy, the FEEL GOOD policy of "homes for everyone" that started with Carter, was pushed hard during the Clinton Admin, and unstopped during the Bush terms by the Democratic Congress. It is fine to say that this happened on Bush's watch. It did. BUT with the Dem leadership of Franks, Dodd and others, the housing markets and the subsequent futures trading of the mass bundles of "toxic loans" in which many very large businesses invested in, such as GM, AIG, etc, was allowed to happen. Even McCain and Bush warned that too much of our economy was tied into a WAY overinflated housing market and WAY too many problems were tied to the massive amounts of money that was invested in bad housing loans. You can search Youtube and find the videos of them warning of the horrible crisis the economy was going to be in if the problem was not fixed. Franks and others just accused the Republicans at the time of fear mongering.... I guess the fear panned out because the economy crashed.

    I find it totally inaccurate that you can take this aspect of the economic crash and then blame ONLY conservatives and only Republicans only Bush. Heck Obama was a leading accepter of contributions from Fannie and Freddie... BUT as with all things that go wrong, the Liberals/Dems want to ignore what they fail at and blame and investigate and punish Republicans for what they failed at...

    I mean this all started with a feel good policy that COERCED small local banks into loaning money to risky people, and when they refused to make the loans, people like ACORN boycotted and protested the banks AND the Federal Government punished them by increasing the bank to bank interest rates to those banks who did not want to participate in this LIBERAL homes for ANYONE policy.

    -- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Dec 20, 2009, at 6:39 PM
  • With all that said, I think the whole political process has Three major problems. First the Federal government is TOO large and is attempting to involve itself with TOO many programs and laws. Second, the money for policy from BOTH sides corrupts the logic and reason and causes ALL laws and programs to be corrupt and inefficient and NOT in the best interest of the nation, we the people, but geared to which ever special interest group is favored. Right now, the UNIONS are the favored special interest group of the day. Pharma, Insurance, and other groups have been favored and have been villianized. Third, the politicans have the ability to get into office and stay for decades and the longer a person has that much power the more they are corrupted so we need strict term limits for Congress. The problems of our nation really are not idealogical in nature and it is not a Dem v. Repub problem. It is that the whole poltical process is corrupted by money and drive why the source of funds for the next campaign cycle

    -- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Dec 20, 2009, at 6:39 PM

    -- Posted by Jo on Sun, Dec 20, 2009, at 6:39 PM
  • Jo: I find blind anger at ONLY Bush, while the majority, the major majority, of Congress voted for all things military that occurred while he was in office to be revisionist and inaccurate or worse.

    News Across and anyone else: So you blame conservative polices ONLY while the Community Reinvestment Act was the economic catalist that caused the economy to snowball and inflate until the housing industry burst and snowballed into what we have today. You do not see that Biden and Obama said that the unemployment rates would never go over 8% and that the spending spending spending policy of the Dems have increased the severity of the economic problems?

    Bush and McCain BOTH made public statements throughout the early 2000s saying that the CRA and the risky housing loan situation WOULD cause economic wide problems and their predictions came true. But I guess you can ignore all of that right? lol

    Contrary to your statements, I was not defending Bush, merely pointing out the reality of a HORRIBLE policy that the Dems started and pushed and worked and the resulting damage that occurred that all the blind and hypnotized Obamamaniacs seem to be able to forget.

    I blame the whole political process and people from both sides of the aisle myself... you surely cannot blame one person nor one political party or idealism. That is stupid

    -- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Dec 20, 2009, at 9:03 PM
  • News Across: I was in active duty Army when Clinton reduced troops, bases and intelligence services and personnel. I was there when the fights about which base would close and which would not. I was there while our troops sat unfunded for the training which make our military the best in the world. I was there when they set the target numbers for how many military personnel they thought was best. That number was set during Clinton's term and it was not immediately established. They several years to come down to that number and as people exited and retired from the military they did not sign new people until they reached the reduced numbers goal. That did not occur under Bush... sorry. Clinton and the admin during his presidency are responsible for the current numbers of troops and bases and intelligence personnel. I know it is hard to face the facts

    -- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Dec 20, 2009, at 9:07 PM
  • Something funny:

    Call the Nestle Crunch Hot line at 1-800-295-0051. When you are asked if you want to continue in English or Spanish, just wait quietly for about 10 seconds and you will smile. Promise! Keep going and press 4 listen to the options then press 7. If you comment on this after listening, don't give away the surprise! ENJOY!!

    -- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Dec 20, 2009, at 9:20 PM
  • news Across: lol Not sure what the time period of yours or my service has to do with anything. Fact still remains that the base closure, troop reduction occurred during the Clinton Admin. Due to time delays required to actually close and reduce troops, MAYBE 2005 was the official moment that the Pentagon said "OH CRAP we can no longer fight a two continent war" lol

    In 1992, the year before Bill Clinton took office the end strengths were:

    Army: 610,450

    Navy: 541,883

    Marines: 184,529

    Air Force: 470,315

    In 2000, the year before George W. Bush took office:

    Army: 481,669

    Navy: 373,692

    Marines: 173,371

    Air Force: 354,321

    The correct answer was Bush I started base closure and Clinton took that even further. Clinton did reduce troop numbers.

    -- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Dec 20, 2009, at 11:01 PM
  • news across. I was in the Big Red 1 during the Clinton admin and the troops who normally went into the field to train EVERY month, stood still and did not training. The funding was removed for that training. Many people left the Army because if the Government was not going to support the training, then our advantage over the enemy was lost. You can say what you want about what you THINK, but I lived it personally. Thanks for your opinions though

    -- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Dec 20, 2009, at 11:09 PM
  • I always said from the beginning of the Bush term, that he was put in there to be the fall guy! Cheney was the top dog when it came to making the decision's , and lead Bush around like a mind less idiot! That's no excuse, he is a pathetic little fool,not a man! With that said,you may be right with details, and i do agree that all , or most, Politicians have no credibility,Integrity, ethic at all. He and Cheney put down the F.B.I. THE CIA, THE PENTAGONE,JUST ABOUT ALL THE AGENCIES that had different perspectives of everything they wanted to do about going into Iraq! They acted like a bunch of Nazi Storm Troopers, and in my opinion knowing they were no threat to us! Trying to shut down Media coverage of things. They ruined a lot of reputations of some distinguished people!I agree we have to get most of the Career Politicians out with term limits, and no lobbying afterward! The people should have the say with special Elections, for the major issues like HealthCare & the Politicians wages and Benefits! In my opinion, they should put in a 40 hr. work week too. Get some of the Peoples work done. you see how empty the chamber is when there is things going ! I think the young Students coming up see what needs to be done, they Elected the one Person they thought would get most of our troops out! And fight it in a Commando type action, We could get Ben Laden as fast that way,for all the good that will do, they have his successor waiting in the wings! But the Politicians don't want peace . they don't have to fight it,our young people do. They say we are leaving a lot of Debt for our Young that's better then sending them off to Die for what reason? Sorry i get all wound up about this ! I'm done for now!good Nite.

    -- Posted by Jo on Mon, Dec 21, 2009, at 12:09 AM
  • JO: Trying to shut down media sounds an awful lot like the Obama Chicago style political machine.....

    -- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Dec 21, 2009, at 2:28 AM
  • Boy, am I glad that I'm in Europe this month even if we did get on the last Eurostar train out of Brussells on Saturday. 250,000 other travelers got stranded in the cold.

    Think about this BRIBE for a monent. It's SOOOOO obvious. Don't you wish you could get the same "special" deal in Missouri?

    "Democratic leaders probably needed the extra money in order to secure the vote of Senator Nelson. To wit, included in the final legislation is a provision that puts the federal government on the hook for paying for the Medicaid costs of all new beneficiaries in Nebraska, forever. That dandy surely factored heavily in Senator Nelson's calculations."


    -- Posted by AF Brat on Mon, Dec 21, 2009, at 4:37 AM
  • The people of Missouri need to take a long hard look at the 10th Amendment. Stop taking the federal hand out and stop pay for the federal problems. Take care of Missouri and it has enough problems...before you try to solve the problems of each state. Oklahoma has got the right idea. Will Missouri see the light in time.

    Anyone holding an office now...vote them out and start over. Party doesn't matter as much as finding the right American that has the backbone to stand up to corrupt government. Favor for this state and that. What is good for one is good for all. No favors!!!

    -- Posted by silverdollar on Mon, Dec 21, 2009, at 4:14 PM
  • "You can THINK what ever you want sonny boy...but We the People will never allow you conservatives into power again to attempt to destroy our Nation again...never again...never again.

    ...and that is a promise!"

    news across...I respect your service to our country but am curious as to how you plan to accomplish this, when history pretty much guarantees that the conservatives will indeed return to power. Likely sooner rather than later actually.

    -- Posted by outsider on Mon, Dec 21, 2009, at 6:11 PM
  • If they don't put the Single Payer or Public Option back in this Bill, they have given the Republicans,and Insurance Company's a gift for Xmas. Giving them 30 Million more Customers , Paying back some of the Money they contributed to all these sleeze bags! The People get the shaft again,force you to buy in to this piece of Crap!

    -- Posted by Jo on Mon, Dec 21, 2009, at 9:58 PM
  • I'm very upset with Senator McCaskill. Instead of being President Obama's number one derriere smoocher, she should have held her vote hostage and demanded the same ransom that the Senator Nelson got for the folks in Nebraska!

    -- Posted by Reader101 on Tue, Dec 22, 2009, at 2:24 AM
  • Echoing Jo's comment.

    "Some of the big insurance companies, Well Point, Cigna, United Health, all surged to a 52 week high in their share prices this week when it was clear there'd be no public option in the health care bill going through Congress right now. *** I think what most people should take away from this is that the massive subsidies for health insurance companies have been preserved while it's also expanded their customer base because there's an individual mandate in the bill that's going to provide all these companies with the, you know, 25 or 30 million new people who are going to be paying for health insurance. So, it's, obviously, a huge boon to that industry. And I think Wall Street correctly read what the health care effort is all about."


    Congressional "graft" wins(see the special deal for Senator Nelson's vote), not your well being.

    -- Posted by AF Brat on Tue, Dec 22, 2009, at 5:31 AM
  • So much for our President's promise of "no more politics as usual." I am in favor of real health care reform, but what we got is "politics as usual." WHAT A SHAME!

    -- Posted by OldOwl on Tue, Dec 22, 2009, at 11:22 AM
  • news across the last slogan you took up got you know where this one will too "never again...never again."

    One question for you mate have you ever been wrong?

    -- Posted by OldOwlFan on Tue, Dec 22, 2009, at 11:50 AM
  • Looks like Outsider is back with Socialist views. Do you remember how easy health care and health insurance were before government took hold. Why should I pay for your health insurance. Why should you pay for my health care. When I am out of money for health care and health insurance then I won't have either unless forced by the government. Of course at my age they won't waste the money for health care. Money I work for and have worked for should be mine to spend. I should not have to use these funds to pay for health care and health insurance for others unless I wish to donate funds. The government should not have the right to take monies I have worked for.

    -- Posted by silverdollar on Tue, Dec 22, 2009, at 1:15 PM
  • Did you hear the interview with Senator McCaskill yesterday? Poor thing is so up set because she won't be home in time to do her Christmas baking.

    -- Posted by silverdollar on Tue, Dec 22, 2009, at 1:24 PM
  • Read this story and you'll know why I believe that segments of the corporate side of our society are sick, disgusting, and border on criminality:


    -- Posted by Slater on Tue, Dec 22, 2009, at 1:59 PM
  • At this late date if you're STILL looking for that certain "unusual" gift to give, check out some of the things on this site:


    My pick is the 2010 bubble wrap calendar. :)

    -- Posted by Slater on Tue, Dec 22, 2009, at 2:17 PM
  • Anyone in a grinchy mood (and that could be several) may think of Mr. Ron Lake as a kindred spirit. Others may say, upon learning of his location, "Yeah, it figures. Only in the land of the fruits and the nuts." Have a look at this and watch the video:


    -- Posted by Slater on Tue, Dec 22, 2009, at 2:39 PM
  • Whoa there, silverdollar....you must have me confused with someone else. I guarantee you, there's not a more anti-socialist gracing these pages.

    My favorite bumper sticker reads...."Let me keep my Freedom, Money and Guns....you keep the CHANGE".

    I don't want or need anyone paying for my insurance or even telling me that I have to have it, for that matter.

    -- Posted by outsider on Tue, Dec 22, 2009, at 3:18 PM
  • Hey outsider, I like that bumper sticker!!

    -- Posted by Scarpetta on Tue, Dec 22, 2009, at 4:29 PM
  • -- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Dec 23, 2009, at 1:16 AM
  • News, I believe the first time we disagreed was about a topic regarding rape.... I agree with the Conservatives on this. A company should not be held responsible for the independent actions of its employees. Government should not be involved in employment agreements.

    Have a great day and a Merry Christmas!


    -- Posted by missy08 on Wed, Dec 23, 2009, at 5:26 AM
  • News why did you not post the rest of the story?

    It was also opposed by the Obama administration and the Department of Defense, though the president declared that he supports the "intent" of the amendment.

    The administration came around to supporting the amendment after two key changes were made. "The restriction will only apply to companies whose contracts with the government amounts to $1 million or more (which includes most defense contractors)," noted Talking Points Memo. "It can also be waived for national security concerns -- but the secretary of defense will have to personally explain the waiver."

    -- Posted by OldOwlFan on Wed, Dec 23, 2009, at 6:33 AM
  • news across...I'm still not sure why you're addressing your left wing rants to me, but be my guest.

    As for Australia, congrats for living in a great country. I've never been there, but would love to visit. From what I've seen it's a beautiful place with lots of nice people. (Please thank them for being one of our most loyal allies over the years) As for your health care, let's see...thanks to the wonders of Google, it appears the population of Australia is about 21 million..and what is the US??...looks like just under 300 million...which doesn't count the thousands of illegals streaming across our borders and clogging up our ERs every time they sneeze. So, enjoy your health care and balanced budget and sleep well knowing that if someone invades you and tries to take away these wonderful things, the bad ol' US will be the ones who come save your a$$...and we promise to not even send you a bill for it.

    -- Posted by outsider on Wed, Dec 23, 2009, at 8:21 AM
  • I'm hearing that the current general objection to socialized health insurance in the U.S. has two important foci. One is timing in relation to the economy. The first order of business when realizing what removing regulation and wrong regulation has wrought was addressing too-big-to-fail and mortgages treated as unsecured credit. Enron was the lesson that wasn't learned. Some of the regulations from the Great Depression such as Glass-Steagall were gutted, contributing to disaster. To follow the 1930's pattern, work for bank and stock regulation and job creation; after that work on entitlements, etc.

    Many officials and advisors now in power are the same people who said "It will never happen again" three years ago, five years ago, ten years ago. With reality of greed and lack of regulation, they've had an epiphany and many have said they were wrong. Their failure to understand history or human nature means they are just the people to lead the country now - right?

    The second objection is that Congress is treating a serious matter as though it were a game. Insurance and access to health care are not the same thing, as an insured person knows when he can't get an appointment promptly and has to go to an emergency room instead. Our elected representatives don't take time to "read the bill", a tendency obvious for several years. Playing favorites, making words sound nice instead of being real, and disregarding constituents is sickening. If we are going to revise the insurance system, study the matter thoroughly, look at other countries' systems, and ask what voters consider important, not just special interest lobbiests'. Access to doctors at reasonable cost is important.

    -- Posted by Cat13 on Wed, Dec 23, 2009, at 9:20 AM
  • I still havent herd from sweeney's fueneral home about anything. I don't knwo what we r suppose to do when my grandpa dies...we called another funeral home but they said that they would have to get the money from sweeney's and if he didn't return my call he probably won't call them back...this aint the way to spend crhistmas!

    -- Posted by muzzled on Wed, Dec 23, 2009, at 11:47 AM
  • There was a beautiful, double rainbow out today. I hope everyone got the chance to enjoy it! It was the brightest, biggest rainbow I have ever seen.

    -- Posted by speedfingers on Wed, Dec 23, 2009, at 3:55 PM
  • Rats - missed it. I love a good rainbow.

    -- Posted by broke-n-busted on Wed, Dec 23, 2009, at 5:06 PM
  • Tomorrow is shaping up to be pretty full, so I want to wish all of you a very Merry Christmas!!

    Let's do our best to keep the holiday spirit of peace and good will all year! :)

    -- Posted by Slater on Wed, Dec 23, 2009, at 5:24 PM
  • When are you going to post the pictures from the community chorus concerts two weekends ago?

    -- Posted by momaster on Thu, Dec 24, 2009, at 10:28 AM
    Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
    Still working on it. If only there were more hours in a day. I ask Santa for more every year, but he never comes through.
  • A very happy Christmas to everyone! God bless and be safe!

    -- Posted by Green Eyes on Thu, Dec 24, 2009, at 1:16 PM
  • We have a genuine Okie blizzard roaring (literally) across the plains. I'm lovin it. Wind gusts to sixty, blinding snow, drifts "a buildin".

    We are off to the kids, and grand kids house in an hour or so, fourteen slow miles west into the teeth of the storm.

    It is refreshing, for a change, to be faced with adversity that one can actually confront, and quickly conquer. Not like our national crisis.

    Merry Christmas, and Season's Greetings to all.

    Merry Christmas back at you Green Eyes.

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Dec 24, 2009, at 3:18 PM
  • Eric, Rather than wishing for more hours in the day, grab a bottle of Bubbles:) Thanks for a fine hand on the tiller of a most enjoyable news paper. A very merry to Kathy, Sydney, Marcia and others who toil to inform us of current events. Congratulations on 130 years. Quite an accomplishment.

    -- Posted by upsedaisy on Thu, Dec 24, 2009, at 11:08 PM
  • OKR, Have a merry. Stay overnight--even if you have to sleep on the floor. Let us know when you are safely back.

    Thanks to all for a lively exchange of ideas. Perhaps, we'll come up with solutions for our problems in the coming year.

    Be of good cheer. Keep safe and may sugar plums dance in your heads.

    -- Posted by upsedaisy on Thu, Dec 24, 2009, at 11:14 PM
  • Thank you upsedaisy. I hope you have a great Christmas as well.

    Merry Christmas to all our readers. I hope it is a great one!!


    -- Posted by Marcia Gorrell on Fri, Dec 25, 2009, at 11:37 AM
  • Fourteen inches of snow plus wind gusts to 60mph, a new Okie record. It was different. Nice to be home, and snug.

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Dec 27, 2009, at 12:59 AM
  • As we start reading the Obamacare bill more goodies for the insurance industry keep croping up. Dis anyone really believe THEY were supporting it for the uninsured's benefit?

    "Both the House and Senate health care bills contain AN UNWELCOME SURPRISE for those whose current health care plans allow "flexible savings accounts" for out-of-pocket medical expenditures. FSAs enable people to spend pre-tax dollars on medical expenditures, including doctor visit co-pays and drug costs. Money is deducted from an employee's paycheck, pre-tax, and placed in a separate account that can only be used to reimburse for medical expenses incurred over the course of a year.

    "In 2003, the federal government concluded that FSA dollars could be used for over-the-counter medicines. This was a boon for consumers, and helped reduce health care costs by making it less expensive for many consumers to substitute less expensive OTC remedies for prescription drugs. *** It was also a major benefit for families, as expenditures on things like Pedialyte and pre-natal vitamins were also eligible.

    "This is all going to change if the current health care bills become law, however. As John Berlau reports, both the House and Senate bills would restrict the use of FSAs (and Health Savings Accounts) to prescription drugs and insulin. THIS WILL BE A BOON FOR DRUG MAKERS insofar as prescription drugs are more profitable than OTC medicines, but could increase medical costs for many Americans -- and is also likely to increase health care costs overall."

    Everybody (Sen. Nelson, drug companies, health insurance companies, etc.) gets a bribe and YOU will be paying for it with no alternative. No freedom of choice for us. No escape. BTW, medicare benefits for those over 65 are going DOWN in order to pay for much of this.

    -- Posted by AF Brat on Sun, Dec 27, 2009, at 6:38 AM
  • -- Posted by AF Brat on Sun, Dec 27, 2009, at 6:42 AM
  • Hope all had a merry Christmas!

    Newsacross. I find it funny that you, being ONE person, can attempt to speak for all Australians. However, in light of the holiday season I dont want to argue about it. I will just simply state that in EVERY type of health care system in EVERY nation there are varying numbers of people who love, hate or are apathetic about their health care system. I can also find faults and good things about all systems of lesser and greater degrees.

    But, during an economic depression, attempting to push policy that is based on tax payer funding is foolish as it further causes the loss of more jobs and the prevention of new jobs from starting up. It takes 100,000 jobs per month about to keep up with the population growth in America. We are losing that many or more each month. Another round of home foreclosures is predicted, this time with borrowers who were NOT risky which will potentially impact the economy more than those with risky loans.

    The other aspect is that you are trying to fit a size 2 shoe on a size 13 foot. The population in the US is much greater than that of Australia. AND our political game is so corrupt that Health care is NOT any different than any other policy push, it has SPECIAL interest groups who are trying to "game" the system to get a favorable outcome for THEIR business or interest. Unions for example, who NEVER create jobs and only add enormously to the product/service cost are the main people bending the Presidents and the Libbie Dems ears.

    SO Why do you want a corrupt system to attempt to create another corrupt program?

    -- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Dec 27, 2009, at 7:45 AM
  • News Across: I haven't experienced any kind of Socialized Medical care, but i have read a lot about it! Comparing the two. What we have now, is not working for everyone,and that's what it should be judged by! Why some one would think ,free Market is better, just don't want any kind of change at all! You know, what ever System is used, There will always be the top Dogs getting better care! I want a system were no one get better care then the next Guy. So until some one comes up with a better Idea, I'll go with Socialized Medicine!The Government is the only Intitle big enough to see that Private Enterprise don't eat us alive! I'm not so sure that there isn't a conspiracy going on to take over the world Economy , and Governments! Maybe i'm just a sceptic about anything being done fairly in this world! It's always served me well, to be sceptical about everything. we'll see?? I'm with you NEWS ACROSS!

    -- Posted by Jo on Sun, Dec 27, 2009, at 3:51 PM
  • AFBrat posts: "As we start reading the Obamacare bill more goodies for the insurance industry keep croping up."

    Instead of offering analyses by other people, why don't you offer your own analysis? Who knows? Maybe you'd be more accurate and thereby better informed.

    -- Posted by Slater on Sun, Dec 27, 2009, at 3:59 PM
  • Newsacross.... I still got to love how you state YOUR opinions as fact. Again, when I read about and compare different health care systems in different nations I can STILL discuss and explain how each system has faults and failures. Example, Japan and US spend more on technology as seen in the stats that show that Japan, then the US has more CTs, MRIs and other diagnostic tools than any other nations in the world. Because of that the US leads the world in most common cancer and heart attack survivability rates. Our top 5 hospitals provide MORE clinical trials than Europe. Without profits from that "evil" capitalism system that we have the world would suffer without as much technological and medical advancements.

    As for your whole theory of failure of capitalism is it really failure of capitalism or is it failure of our corrupt political game that relies TOO much on special interest groups and their money which supports campaign funds?

    Here is a thought, lets just tax churches and make laws that bans Churches and private non-profits from providing any type of charity, including food, shelter and clothing to name a few. Instead, lets tax the crap out of people to fund MORE programs that are run by the corrupt, inefficient, fraud-filled, wasteful Government programs. THEN you will see exactly how socialism fails.

    -- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Dec 27, 2009, at 9:06 PM
  • Jo: You stated; "Why some one would think ,free Market is better, just don't want any kind of change at all! You know, what ever System is used, There will always be the top Dogs getting better care! I want a system were no one get better care then the next Guy. So until some one comes up with a better Idea, I'll go with Socialized Medicine"

    You Really think that our politicians care about the common folks? Or do they care about getting re-elected so they can keep the power that feeds their egos? The top dogs getting better health care is what the government is all about. Example of this is how they will not even vote in amendments that state they will participate in the exact same health care system and they are demanding that all OTHER Americans purchase. They are even going to the extent that it is CRIMINAL if you do NOT purchase their version of health insurance.

    The whole point of LIFE is that LIFE is not fair. If you really want all people to have the exact same health care, then you also have to agree that ALL people should get plastic surgeries and other non-necessary procedures done for free right? I mean equal is equal after all.

    -- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Dec 27, 2009, at 9:10 PM
  • To all: how do you feel about the Bribery of Nebraska Senator, Ben Nelson? Is this REALLY how you think our government should function? Does it REALLY produce anything that is in the best interest of the majority of our citizens when one group can buy off some politician?

    Think about this as well. Since most knowledgable people understand that our political game is corrupt and broken AND since our dollar is ONLY backed by consumer confidence in Congress, and since the favorability rating of Congress has been VERY low for a long time, dont you think that all of this combines into a very difficult and long period of economic depression and problems for the foreseable future?

    -- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Dec 27, 2009, at 9:16 PM
  • No i don't mean any Plastic Surgery, unless it is used for Patients that have had Catastrophic injuries . A little common sense to any Law or Bill they may enact! this Language thing has gotten out of hand, every word has to be thought over by a bunch of Pin heads, and even then some Lawyer has to challenge this or that! It's insane, but i'm from the old school,were a hand shake was sufficient! But there is always and always will be someone or Group creating some conflict about a word. Or the meaning of a word! Simple Equality and whats right for everyone. I really don't think it would be that difficult to accomplish with the right People leading the Program,sorry to say i won't see it happen,but maybe someday???

    -- Posted by Jo on Sun, Dec 27, 2009, at 10:11 PM
  • Jo, I'm from that same time when you could count on someone's word and a hand shake, but sadly those days are long gone, never to return in my opinion. Just as mrxray has pointed out, the greed and corruption of our government has been adopted by the general public and people care only about themselves - the Me First syndrome.

    Instead of "let's do things together" it's now "you scratch my back and i'll scratch yours." "I'll vote for your bill if you take care of the people in my district," or, "here, mr. senator, here's $3 million if you'll make sure your bill favors my business."

    I wonder if there are enough honest people left in this country to replace all the crooks in Washington and in all the state, county, and city governments.

    -- Posted by Slater on Sun, Dec 27, 2009, at 10:41 PM
  • Prominent in my thoughts as I sat this Christmas surrounded by a blizzard, but safe, and warm, was the plight of our service personell in Iraq, and Afghanistan. My Christmas wish was to please bring them home. I think that it may have been the wish of many.


    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Dec 28, 2009, at 12:23 AM
  • Slater posted "*** Maybe you'd be more accurate and thereby better informed."

    Please point out PRECISELY where the quoted remarks about the huge benefit for the drug industry present in the Obamacare bill were inaccurate. You can't, of course, because the remarks are true. So you go back to the ad hominum attack.

    Do you r-e-a-l-l-y favor benefiting the drug manufacturing and health care insurance industries with billions and billions of dollars transferred from middle class taxpayers? Or could it be that you just don't like my posting of the truth about this great boondoggle because Obama happens to favor it?

    -- Posted by AF Brat on Mon, Dec 28, 2009, at 4:58 AM
  • AFBrat, why are you so defensive? I merely suggested that it would be interesting to read your own take on a topic for a change.

    Are you one of those people who lets others do your thinking? It sure looks that way to me.

    No, YOU point out PRECISELY where in my posts I've stated I'm in favor of supporting the drug and insurance companies.

    My point, which obviously escaped you, is that all of us need to read the bills and determine their worth for ourselves rather than always relying on other sources for interpretation. Those people have an agenda different from our own in most cases.

    You're a smart enough guy. I'm sure you can understand what's in the health care bills better than letting someone else do your thinking for you.

    -- Posted by Slater on Mon, Dec 28, 2009, at 11:07 AM
  • How do I find out where all these new streets are? (i.e. Landmark Ave)

    -- Posted by Scarpetta on Mon, Dec 28, 2009, at 5:00 PM
  • Glad you brought that up, NanaDot. I'd appreciate a vacation from the phrase "Obamacare," too. If the point you intend to make is worth making, AFB, it can surely be made without resorting to lame, poorly-disguised insults.

    -- Posted by Miss Marple on Mon, Dec 28, 2009, at 7:17 PM
  • I mean really!?

    Can the people with barking dogs not hear them!? Maybe that's why you put them outside, so they don't keep you up. Personally I'd like to be able to sleep, so if you have a **** dog outside shut it up please. My dog doesn't keep you or your family up, I'd appreciate it of yours didn't keep me and mine up.

    -- Posted by Scarpetta on Mon, Dec 28, 2009, at 11:20 PM
  • Will the upper strata of the financial community never learn that a consumer based society can not be sustained if they take an ever larger share of material wealth? Can they not see that we the people can not sustain the rate of consumption, let alone grow it, if we have less, and less buying power?

    Their short sighted greed will be their eventual undoing. Unfortunately it will be long after it becomes the undoing of the rest of us.


    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Dec 29, 2009, at 12:28 AM
  • hey miss marple ... i'd appreciate a vacation from something too ... and that is obama and his administration continually, always, blaming bush and his predecessors for everything! that argument is getting ooooooooooold. it's like a fourth-grader never accepting blame for anything, never his fault. i can see the barack obama tombstone many years from now ... it will read ... not sure what state or country it will be in, but it will read ... I STILL BLAME BUSH! IT WAS ALL HIS FAULT!

    OBAMAcare ... he owns it. you want a vacation from it, but it's HIS issue, can't blame this one on ol' george. he ran on it, he let the other president's pelosi and reid take that ball and come up with this plan ... it's OBAMA'S issue to deal with.

    get over bush. he hurt us, yes. but you better pay attention to what this clown obama and his amateur-hour administration (janet incompetant-tano) are doing to us ... people need to WAKE UP.

    we are less safe these days ... the ft. hood and detroit terrorist attempts are just the beginning. the world sees obama as weak, and it's going to hurt us all, unfortunately.

    right artie? :)

    -- Posted by aikman8 on Tue, Dec 29, 2009, at 12:45 AM
  • Actually, I'm deliberately not consistent. Sometimes I refer to the current bill as Obamacare, sometimes as Reid-Pelosi, sometimes as Pelosi-Reid, sometimes as the health care bill.

    Is it not surprising that many see only the version they want to see?

    -- Posted by AF Brat on Tue, Dec 29, 2009, at 5:55 AM
  • aikman and AFB: You are both missing the point. If you have good arguments to make, you can make them without being deliberately offensive. Switching it from "Obamacare" to "Reid-Pelosi" doesn't make any difference. You either did not have any debate training at all in how to make a strong argument, or you are choosing to ignore it. And that puts you squarely in the middle of the problem - using a bunch of idiotic arm-flapping, pointless and provocative name-calling that does nothing but make the situation WORSE instead of better.

    -- Posted by Miss Marple on Tue, Dec 29, 2009, at 7:14 AM
  • No matter what you call this government health care it isn't going to be good for us. The next thing will be cap and tax. first thing you know our taxes are going to be more than half of our income. Control of all water and the use. This is so dangerous. If we re-elect people in office they all ready know how to play the game of bribes. Going from one office to another doesn't help either. There most be some new blood willing to tackle these problems. Maybe would could find someone that understands business and finance.

    No more generation after generation in politics.

    We have got to be the broom that sweeps Washington clean.

    -- Posted by silverdollar on Tue, Dec 29, 2009, at 3:40 PM
  • Revolution.

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Dec 29, 2009, at 3:46 PM
  • After seeing today's paper, i wondar how long before it goes to a weekley paper

    -- Posted by muzzled on Tue, Dec 29, 2009, at 4:09 PM
    Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
    It's the holiday lull. Happens every year.
  • notgvnasht: You're kidding, right? Three words for you - pot, kettle, black.

    -- Posted by Miss Marple on Tue, Dec 29, 2009, at 4:30 PM
  • OMG, AHAHAHA, talk about the pot calling the kettle black, calling the kettle black.

    Really funny how you make comments to yourselves in triplicate.

    -- Posted by Night Sky on Tue, Dec 29, 2009, at 6:14 PM
  • miss marple ... exactly what debate training do you have??!?!?!? i'd like to know.

    it's not about debate training. it's about believing in this country and not liking where it's headed. it's about standing up for what you believe. i think i speak for MANY out there when i say ... i don't like where this clown and amateur inexperienced obama and his administration is trying to take this country. i love this country, don't like what he's trying to do to us ... socialize us and make us another france.

    if i wanted to live in france miss marple, i'd move there.

    -- Posted by aikman8 on Wed, Dec 30, 2009, at 12:42 AM
  • Actually, Ms. Marple, I'm in the UK as I write this. If I wanted to, I could immigrate.

    It's a nice, even wonderful, place to visit but not to live. The level of state interference with everyday life is stunning as is the total tax burden. Sexual activity of all sorts seems to be the only adult conduct beyond the bounds of HM government's "do-gooders".

    Every day the newspapers have another NHS (that's "National Health Service") scandle story (what a billion GBP boondoggle -- no wonder Brits go to India for surgery) which makes us glad that we have medical evacuation insurance back to the States (the same policy we use for African travel). The instructions on my dog tags say "Stop the bleeding and send me to any US Level One Trama Center."

    -- Posted by AF Brat on Wed, Dec 30, 2009, at 6:20 AM
  • aikman8: If you are going to make an argument that you don't like the current administration, you're certainly free to do so. But personal attacks on the president add nothing to your argument and don't make it more believable. If you can't make your argument on the facts, then you don't have much of an argument to make.

    Here's an example: Let's say, just for the sake of this discussion, that I believe you are a jerk. If I disagree with what you believe about the current administration, it isn't necessary for me to say that you are a jerk, is it? Saying it doesn't make it so, and throwing it into the discussion about an unrelated subject doesn't change the facts of that subject.

    -- Posted by Miss Marple on Wed, Dec 30, 2009, at 7:44 AM
  • Actually, AFBrat, I'm in the US of A as I write this. I COULD emigrate if I wanted, but I like living here, and I believe there's no better place, in spite of all the problems.

    Actually, AFBrat, I believe you and others, like aikman8 for instance, would have us going back and starting the first World War over again.

    Aikman8, you too can emigrate if things get too tough for you in this country.

    -- Posted by Slater on Wed, Dec 30, 2009, at 9:16 AM
  • Oh, yes...AF Brat...I forgot about you. I suggested you could make better arguments without stooping to name-calling. You reply that you are in the U.K. and could move there.

    I don't see any connection between my comments and your response. What I do see is someone who has the means to travel extensively and is anxious to point that out.

    -- Posted by Miss Marple on Wed, Dec 30, 2009, at 2:20 PM
  • I'm gong to sway the convo, if nobody minds...

    New Year's resolutions, anyone? I know you got 'em. Let's hear 'em. I'm going with the old goodie "losing weight" because I'm not sure this is the year for "quitting smoking." =)

    -- Posted by Green Eyes on Wed, Dec 30, 2009, at 3:19 PM
  • For the New Year...as usual it never hurts to get rid of a few pounds. Attend every Tea Party and FairTax Rally I can find in Missouri and maybe in DC in April. Work to make sure anyone currently in office (either party) is voted out.

    AFB...I like the way you present the facts and can always back them up. We all have an opinion to express, but you always have the facts.

    I would really think before moving to the UK. Know three people that bought out contracts to get out of that place. Change in laws. Many from UK moving to Spain.

    Everyone have a Happy New Year!

    -- Posted by silverdollar on Wed, Dec 30, 2009, at 3:35 PM
  • I know we're not supposed to put up long posts, but maybe Editor Crump will let me slide this time since I haven't been guilty of that for some time.


    I thought about the 30-year business I ran with 1800 employees, all without a Blackberry that played music, took videos, pictures and communicated with Facebook and Twitter.

    I signed up under duress for Twitter and Facebook so my seven kids, their spouses, 13 grandkids and 2 great grand kids could communicate with me in the modern way. I figured I could handle something as simple as Twitter with only 140 characters of space.

    That was before one of my grandkids hooked me up for Tweeter, Tweetree, Twhirl, Twitterfon, Tweetie and Twittererific Tweetdeck, Twitpix and something that sends every message to my cell phone and to every other program within the texting world.

    My phone was beeping every three minutes with the details of everything except the bowel movements of the next generation. I am not ready to live like this, so I keep my cell phone in the garage in my golf bag.

    The kids bought me a GPS for my last birthday because they say I get lost every now and then going over to the grocery store or library. I keep that in a box under my tool bench with the Bluetooth phone [it's red] I am supposed to use when I drive. I wore it once and was standing in line at Barnes and Noble talking to my wife as everyone in the nearest 50 yards was glaring at me. Seems I have to take my hearing aid out to use it and I got a little loud.

    I mean the GPS looked pretty smart on my dash board, but the lady inside was the most annoying, rudest person I had run into in a long time. Every 10 minutes she would sarcastically say, "Re-calc-u-lating." You would think that she could be nicer. It was like she could barely tolerate me. She would let go with a deep sigh and then tell me to make a U-turn at the next light. Then when I would make a right turn instead...it was not good!

    When I get really lost now, I call my wife and tell her the name of the cross streets and while she is starting to develop the same tone as Gypsy, the GSP lady, at least she loves me.

    To be perfectly frank, I am still trying to learn how to use the cordless phones in our house. We have had them for 4 years, but I still haven't figured out how I can lose three phones all at once and have to run around digging under chair cushions and checking bathrooms and the dirty laundry baskets when the phone rings.

    The world is just getting too complex for me. They even mess me up every time I go to the grocery store. You would think they could settle on something themselves but this sudden "Paper or Plastic?" every time I check out just knocks me for a loop.

    I bought some of those cloth reusable bags to avoid looking confused but I never remember to take them in with me.

    Now I toss it back to them. When they ask me, "Paper or Plastic?" I just say, "Doesn't matter to me. I'm bi-sacksual." Then it's their turn to stare at me with a blank look. ---------------------------

    -- Posted by Slater on Wed, Dec 30, 2009, at 7:34 PM
  • Slater - Hilarious! Thanks for a great laugh. As a person who is, to put it politely, directionally challenged, I'm grateful for the GPS my husband gave me for Christmas last year. But we were not so happy with "Jill," the voice of American English. We changed it to "Emily," the voice of British English, and now when we hear "recalculating," it doesn't sound quite so rude.

    -- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Dec 30, 2009, at 7:57 PM
  • Great post Slater! What a great ending for the day, go out laughing! :)

    -- Posted by nouveaublogger on Wed, Dec 30, 2009, at 9:31 PM
  • slater you nailed it my friend! absolutely hilarious and sooooo true.

    -- Posted by aikman8 on Wed, Dec 30, 2009, at 11:07 PM
  • pretty good slater and with that i'm backing slowly away from my facebook and all the other things that keep me up past 2 every night....oh wait gotta check the weather:}

    -- Posted by wheresthelove on Thu, Dec 31, 2009, at 12:19 AM
  • Thanks for sharing Slater. Do you know who the author is? I wanted to read more from this humorist, but though I found the story on several web sites it was not attributed.

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Dec 31, 2009, at 2:24 AM
  • No known author, OKR. Whoever it is has a great sense of humor.

    Oh, how I want that we would have only stories to make us laugh and feel good about ourselves and the world.

    -- Posted by Slater on Thu, Dec 31, 2009, at 9:40 AM
  • Relax and enjoy.

    A Happy New Year to All.


    -- Posted by pressman on Thu, Dec 31, 2009, at 9:33 PM
  • news across ... you know i respect your opinions and values and definately why you are in australia in the first place, you da man, but ... i think you've given up your "we" by moving there. you don't know what "we" need anymore brotha. this clown obama is a joke. "we" don't need socialized medicine, and don't need to hear it from you, a man in a country who has a population roughly about what, 1/10th of the united states? of course it's going to work better there.

    so "we" are doing ok here, obama is a piece of crap and the worst prez we've had in our lifetime, and we don't want the down-under socialism.


    -- Posted by aikman8 on Thu, Dec 31, 2009, at 9:47 PM
  • hey news across ... happy new year! it's all good!

    -- Posted by aikman8 on Thu, Dec 31, 2009, at 10:06 PM
Respond to this story

Posting a comment requires free registration: