Speak Out October 9 to November 16, 2008

Thursday, October 9, 2008

The Marshall Democrat-News welcomes views or questions on any issue. We hope you'll express yourself freely and responsibly. We reserve the right to exclude entries that we deem disrespectful, threatening, obscene or in other ways objectionable.

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  • I've heard from a few people this week reporting political yard signs being swiped. The Marshall Police say they haven't gotten many complaints. I'm sure it's illegal -- since stealing generally is -- but it probably isn't high priority for police (who have more serious matters to deal with). It's kind of a petty, mean act, I guess. I was wondering if others were having the same problem.

    -- Posted by Eric Crump on Thu, Oct 9, 2008, at 5:22 PM
  • I paid $10 for my two Obama signs. I will be upset if they are swiped.

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Oct 9, 2008, at 5:34 PM
  • Can I ask how old all of you are that are complaining about these loud motorcyles? What's that saying? If it's too loud.....?

    Motorcyles are not as loud as a lot of muscle cars or sound systems. And cars with loud pipes? More than just teenagers drive those...they are the above mentioned muscle cars. ;) We have a lot of gear heads around here.

    I will reiterate, loud pipes save lives.

    -- Posted by Injesstice on Thu, Oct 9, 2008, at 5:50 PM
  • We had a pair of signs destroyed last night. They weren't stolen - just torn to pieces.

    -- Posted by broke-n-busted on Thu, Oct 9, 2008, at 6:14 PM
  • I ride a motorcycle and also have aftermarket pipes on it. I truly enjoy riding it around and the fuel mileage is better than almost all cars available. I also have seen others who disrespect people around them and for that i am sorry but the few people who choose to be loud with theirs bike does not represent the many who try and respect the general public. If we are going to try and police everything that upsets people we might as well do away with automobiles and electricity and go back to walking everywhere. OH but wait that would upset some people. The problem is people are way to stressed, serious and high strung that the least little thing will throw them into a bad mood or give them yet another excuse to complain about something. If we could fix the world so people don't have to work all the time to survive and put food on the table we could lighten up and stop to enjoy life. Some day we will wake up to realize we didn't enjoy life to its fullest and ask ourselves why did I let things bother me so much to the point it robs you of happiness.

    -- Posted by 1laststand on Thu, Oct 9, 2008, at 7:17 PM
  • i am one of those loud and obnoxious "bicycle" riders with loud pipes and i also have a "muscle" car with loud pipes, but how often am out running the streets at midnite , one a.m. ? never, how often do you hear loud stereos out at one a.m., most every nite!! how often does my neighbors dog bark it flippin head off at 3 a.m., more nites of the week than not, quit yer cryin, babies!! maybe get a job so you have something to do during the day instead of complaining !! maybe i wont have to support ya!

    -- Posted by themonsterinme on Thu, Oct 9, 2008, at 10:00 PM
  • Maybe spending my childhood in or near air bases has made me more tolerant of noise, but noise is everywhere - sirens, airplanes, loud music, loud cars, loud trucks, cannon fire at Valley College, barking dogs, vacuum cleaners- those are all sounds you can expect to hear everywhere (okay, maybe not the cannon, but I live near it). A complete escape from the sounds of modern life is virtually impossible. Life is not silent!

    The less you let yourself become irritated by a specific sound, the less you will notice it.

    -- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Fri, Oct 10, 2008, at 11:12 AM
  • This should be of interest to anybody who is concerned about the futue of our economy.

    3 Men who brought down Wall Street..

    Note: Be sure to read the "where they are now"!!

    Here is a quick look into 3 former Fannie Mae executives who have brought down Wall Street.

    1. Franklin Raines: was a Chairman and Chief Executive Officer at Fannie Mae.

    Raines was forced to retire from his position with Fannie Mae when auditing discovered severe reregulates in Fannie Mae's accounting activities. At the time of his departure The Wall Street Journal noted, "Raines, who long defended the company's accounting despite mounting evidence that it wasn't proper, issued

    a statement late Tuesday conceding that "mistakes were made" and saying he would assume responsibility as he had earlier promised. News reports indicate the company was under growing pressure from regulators to shake

    up its management in the wake of findings that the company's books ran afoul of generally accepted accounting principles for four years." Fannie Mae had to reduce its surplus by $9 billion.

    Raines left with a "golden parachute valued at $240 Million in benefits.

    The Government filed suit against Raines when the depth of the accounting scandal became clear. http://housingdoom.com/2006/12/18/fannie-charges/.

    The Government noted, "The 101 charges reveal how the individuals improperly manipulated earnings to maximize their bonuses, while knowingly neglecting accounting systems and internal controls, misapplying over twenty accounting principles and misleading the regulator and the public. The Notice explains

    how they submitted six years of misleading and inaccurate accounting statements and inaccurate capital reports that enabled them to grow Fannie

    Mae in an unsafe and unsound manner." These charges were made in 2006.

    The Court ordered Raines to return $50 Million Dollars he received in bonuses based on the miss-stated Fannie Mae profits.

    2. Tim Howard: Was the Chief Financial Officer of Fannie Mae.

    Howard "was a strong internal proponent of using accounting strategies that would ensure a "stable pattern of earnings" at Fannie.

    In everyday English - he was cooking the books.

    The Government Investigation determined that, "Chief Financial Officer, Tim Howard, failed to provide adequate oversight to key

    control and reporting functions within Fannie Mae."

    On June 16, 2006, Rep. Richard Baker, R-La ., asked the Justice Department to investigate his allegations that two former Fannie Mae executives

    lied to Congress in October 2004 when they denied manipulating the mortgage-finance

    giant's income statement to achieve management pay bonuses.

    Investigations by federal regulators and the company's board of directors since concluded

    that management did manipulate 1998 earnings to trigger bonuses. Raines and Howard resigned under pressure in late 2004.

    Howard's Golden Parachute was estimated at $20 Million!

    3. Jim Johnson: A former executive at Lehman Brothers and who was later forced from his position as Fannie Mae CEO.

    A look at the Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight's May 2006 report on mismanagement and corruption inside Fannie Mae, and you'll see some interesting things about

    Johnson. Investigators found that Fannie Mae had hidden a substantial amount of Johnson's 1998 compensation from the public, reporting that it was between $6 million and $7 million when it fact it was $21 million."

    Johnson is currently under investigation for taking illegal loans from Countrywide while serving as CEO of Fannie Mae.

    Johnson's Golden Parachute was estimated at

    $28 Million.


    1. FRANKLIN RAINES? Raines works for the Obama Campaign as Chief Economic Advisor

    2. TIM HOWARD? Howard is also a Chief Economic Advisor to Obama

    3. JIM JOHNSON? Johnson hired as a Senior Obama Finance Advisor and was selected to run Obama's Vice Presidential Search Committee.

    Would you trust the men who tore Wall Street down to build the New Wall Street?

    Just a simple question.

    -- Posted by circuitrider on Fri, Oct 10, 2008, at 2:47 PM
  • pulpitrider - thank you for posting that. Problem is, too many people don't want to hear or read the truth because in the campaign they call it "change".

    -- Posted by Air Force Wife on Fri, Oct 10, 2008, at 2:59 PM
  • If you ask me - the whole mess is getting scary!

    I've got four kids - two in college, one living in another state, and one still in school.

    Just glad that - no matter what - God is still on the throne!

    -- Posted by circuitrider on Fri, Oct 10, 2008, at 3:09 PM
  • pulpitrider,

    let me suggest you visit


    where you will find that the information you quoted regarding Franklin Raines, Tim Howard, and Jim Johnson being chief economic advisers of Barrack Obama in his presidential campaign has been found to be false.

    -- Posted by Typesetter on Fri, Oct 10, 2008, at 4:35 PM
  • you know, its not that i dont care what my neighbor or anyone else thinks, i dont think of just myself, my children and wife come first, but i live in the city limits like others who are complaining,and that is a choice i made. if i wanted it to be whisper quiet i would live outside of city limits without neighbors. i dont have any complaints of noise until it gets late and my kids are sleeping, and they are night owls, or three four in the mourning, and the bass from a car or truck starts rattling my walls, or the next door dogs are barking their heads off, because their owners work nights and dont have to hear it. during the day i keep my dog in the house as to where it wont interupt their sleep and time to rest. it would be nice if more people were a little more considerate of others, and i am sure i have room for improvement also. enough of my rantings, good day!

    -- Posted by themonsterinme on Fri, Oct 10, 2008, at 5:26 PM
  • Typesetter,

    That you for setting the record staight in regards to pulpit riders post. These people who propogate these things and the lies they spread should be ashamed of themselves. To those who believe all the e-mail going around, get off your butts do a little research, it's not hard at all to determine whether this stuff is true or not. Get involved! While your at it look into the GOP candidtates a little bit and see what you find and then ask yourself who is a running a decent campaign. The GOP hopes that you won't. We have had liars and cheats in power for too long and look where it has gotten us. BTW, the young man trimming the hair on the front page is Marty Kays, not Hays.

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Oct 10, 2008, at 5:42 PM
    Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
    I knew that, too. Typo. It's fixed on the web. Apologies to Marty. There are days I'd really like to be able to run around town with a bunch of liquid paper and fix every copy.
  • Hmmm. It's official. It looks as if an Alaskan bipartisan legislative panel has determined that Sarah Palin abused her power as governor. So much for what little credibility she might have had.

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Oct 10, 2008, at 7:52 PM
  • ..but did not violate the law. According to CNN. Just completing your thought.....

    -- Posted by missy08 on Fri, Oct 10, 2008, at 8:00 PM
  • I take it CNN must have a legal staff versed in Alaska state law.

    I believe the Alaska legislature will make the determination whether she violated any statutes.

    Personally, I don't care one way or the other. Soon enough she'll be back home, to stay.

    -- Posted by Slater on Fri, Oct 10, 2008, at 9:39 PM
  • I apologize. I guess I should have said as reported by CNN.

    -- Posted by missy08 on Fri, Oct 10, 2008, at 9:45 PM
  • Hey Missy, glad you're back. It's been pretty quiet around here lately. :)

    -- Posted by Slater on Fri, Oct 10, 2008, at 10:08 PM
  • WhatThe... Did you see where Palin paid herself $17,000. for spending 312 nights in her own house since she's geen gov? That's one way to make the house payment.

    -- Posted by Slater on Fri, Oct 10, 2008, at 10:13 PM
  • Looking at my typing, you'd think I must be using a keyboard that was once hooked to the HAL 9000 that ran the space ship in 2001 oddysey. heh heh

    -- Posted by Slater on Fri, Oct 10, 2008, at 10:17 PM
  • TypeSetter: Let me add my thanks for pointing out PulpitRider's transfer of an already debunked right wing email making the rounds.

    PulpitRider: I would imagine that at the moment you feel embarassed. Your next consideration should be that the embarassment is a small price to pay for the wisdom that you have gained, to wit, never pass on an email that you have not vetted, all people that agree with your position do not tell the truth, it is possible that some of your beliefs may not be true.

    It is a tricky world that we live in. It is more successfully navigated if among your assets are skepticism and humility.

    I look forward to your next post. I am willing to bet it will be your own thoughts, not an email you recieved, and tacked your name to, claiming it as your own. I further venture that any declarations you make will be supported by credible evidence.

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Oct 11, 2008, at 2:28 AM
  • I am wondering if the key to the end of the stock market slide might be the point when all the older investors have pulled out their money.

    Most of the financial pundits emphasize that there are great bargains to be had in the market at this moment, and if one is carefully selective that may be true. They also advise investors to stay the course, (where have I heard that phrase before?), to ride it out. It is in their personal interest to be as upbeat as is possible. When pressed, they mutter quietly that it may be a long ride until the market makes a full recovery, and yes, if you are an older investor, it might not be until after you are dead.

    So, through their own rational thoughts, and the low profile admissions of the pundits, I suspect that older investors, particularly those mid range investors among them that were not diversified, are getting out now. There is little to persuade them to do otherwise.

    The problem with that happening, it seems to me, is that as more pull out, more slightly younger than those that just pulled out will do so, and a vicious cycle will begin. The more it drops as each wave pulls out, more people will retreat from the market. Will it be those over seventy first, followed bt those over sixty five, then will it be the older boomers, where will it end? Making it more fretful is that older investors, who made their piles during the golden economic years make up a large portion of the investors.

    I have not seen, nor heard any discussions concerning this speculatory concern of mine, and would welcome any one that has, sharing such resources with me. I would also appreciate the opinions of other posters to this blog.

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Oct 11, 2008, at 3:43 AM
  • Piling on Palin? I think not. It is cutting through the smoke and mirrors.

    In addition to TrooperGate, etc. that is current comment on this blog, the Anchorage Daily News reports that Palin, and several of her assistants are now under court order to divulge the contents of private e mail accounts that were utilized to conduct state business.

    Wait a minute, that is what is going on in the Bush White house, and in Cheney's lair. Is there any place in the Republican party that the evil genius Karl Rove has not cast his shadow? More evidence that Palin is more of the McSame as Bush.

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Oct 11, 2008, at 4:05 AM
  • NanaDot, thank you for making me aware of the web site. It's content is interesting.

    Gee, I was afraid you would agree with me, "Say it ain't so".

    I guess instead of getting a New Deal, or a Square Deal, the people get Deal With It from the Bush Administration which remains fixated on a "trickle down" solution to every problem. I am not sure that the people will ever learn to resist getting trickled on. I am concerned that far too many people are getting used to it, to say nothing of the many who proclaim they like it. Does that proclamation make them some sort of political perverts?

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Oct 12, 2008, at 1:30 AM
  • NanaDot, how much more abuse do you suppose the American people will have to take before becoming overtly resistant to this way of life?

    If we could be privy to all the "little" things that happen, e.g., Henry Waxman's announcement of the AIG executives enjoying a trip to the Calif. resort which cost us approx. $450,000., not two weeks after the company was given a reprieve, would the American people finally say enough is enough and take steps to put a stop to all this BS?

    After all, we ARE in control of the voting apparatus, and all we have to do is turn over the flock every election period. Sooner or later, they may begin to get the idea that the people are no longer intending to be the suckers they currently take us for.

    The major hurdle is in figuring out how to galvanize the troops into a single focus. Maybe the bite of hard times could do it. Maybe Obama would be wise to tighten the screws so much that everyone would become aware of and agree with the need for - need I say it? - _ _ _ _ _ _!

    Yes, the days of honesty, even the pretense of it, are long gone,in my view. Political correctness these days means to lie, deceive, and cheat convincingly. I remember Carter addressing the nation in 1978 when gas prices were escalating rapidly and mortgage rates were as much as 20%, flailing at us for being so self-centered and self-consumed and how the public reacted unfavorably by being reminded exactly how they were, and it makes me wonder if there's ANY kind of crisis that would budge the American public off its front-row seat before the plasma tv hanging on the wall.

    Bush has made it abundantly clear that he's no authority figure in all of this, and I'm not so sure that Obama is doing much better in terms of taking charge, I mean REALLY taking charge. He could stand to talk straight and true for once and tell the public just where things stand and that hard times are ahead, but that there IS the light at the end of this dark tunnel we're in.

    -- Posted by Slater on Sun, Oct 12, 2008, at 1:23 PM
  • Slater,

    I think you make a valid point but I have to wonder,especially as the Democratic nominee for president, how much inside info Obama is really privvy to. I do think that Obama is our best hope for change but I am not naive enough to think he has a magic wand.

    At this point I can only hope that Barack can steer us back on course as a nation.

    I am dusgusted with politics as usual and especially with the McCain campaign that has demonized this man so much that Senator McCain has been forced to defend Obama at GOP rallies from the lies that his campaign is responsible for. Actually rally may be inaccurate, hate-a-palooza is more like it.

    My hope is that American voters will see past all the BS. This goes deeper than the economy and a lot of people may not want to admit that to themselves. Yes, Obama is a black man and I think this country has never been more ready for Barack Obama. In my opinion, anyone who would knowingly further the policies of the past 8 years would be complicit in the damage done.

    Illegal war for the purpose of profit and yes that is why we went there and why we might just remain there, indefinately,......suspension of habeus corpus.......Torture.

    Now we find out that the NSA did indeed listen in on personal calls from soldiers and journalists overseas, then taped and made fun of the converstations. It should be no surprise that Bush assured us that would never happen.

    I think of all the men and women throughout our history who fought and died to make sure those things never happened here, yet here we are.

    What I find most disturbing of all is the amount of people who still support a republican ticket. I wish someone,anyone could give me one good reason why. GW said said he has alot of work to do before leaving office. If it were anyone else I wouldn't be that concerned, but this is GW. No telling how much damage he could do in the next few months. Would anyone like to speculate on the date in which he pardon's Scooter Libby?

    Oh and before anyone goes there, Obama is NOT going to take your guns, give them to married gay couples for them to abort babies with.

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Oct 12, 2008, at 2:28 PM

    This coming Tuesday night on PBS the Frontline episode entitled, The Choice, will take an in-depth look at the candidates.

    If you like the Frontline series, this should be interesting as well as informative.

    It airs here (San Antonio) at 9pm, but I wouldn't know how the schedule of your PBS station compares.

    -- Posted by Slater on Sun, Oct 12, 2008, at 4:33 PM
  • What The, I saw the news report the other day of McCain up north someplace (Wisc. maybe) talking to a group of supporters, and someone in the crowd apparently made a remark about Obama that didn't set well with McCain, and when he said that Obama is a good person and that he'd be a trustworthy president, the crowd started to boo him.

    The news report also showed some guy yelling and screaming going off about the Democrats and acting pretty looney. He would be the kind to grab up his guns and go shoot people at the nearest McDonalds or mall.

    But the remark by McCain about Obama was very strange, almost as if he sees the writing on the wall.

    -- Posted by Slater on Sun, Oct 12, 2008, at 10:30 PM
  • Cosa Nostra, isn't there a state law against such exhaust systems? There was when I lived in Missouri.

    Why don't all of you write letters to the Highway Patrol, if the city police don't have any interest in the matter?

    We can't hear the noise in here.

    -- Posted by Slater on Sun, Oct 12, 2008, at 10:34 PM
  • Slater, I've been lurking around here, just too busy to post. I don't think you listened to all of McCain's comment at the rally. The woman who was talking said that she was "afraid" of Obama. McCain told her that she didn't need to fear him that he was a good man, etc. However, McCain did go on to say that he thought he would make a better President than Obama.

    I also saw the Palin rally with the man who was doing all the heckling. I don't know where they were or what kind of venue they were in but he was nearly within reaching distance.

    As the actual election date gets closer, the race is becoming more charged and people are becoming more emotional. I'll be glad (I think) when this is over.....

    -- Posted by missy08 on Mon, Oct 13, 2008, at 5:54 AM
  • To All

    I stand corrected - except that I did not claim my previous post as my own.

    Maybe bad judgment - but nothing malicious intended. On this forum it seems that anything goes.

    Let it be known that it was not my intention to spread untruth. Goes against who I am.

    Thanks to all who felt compelled to correct my error.

    -- Posted by circuitrider on Mon, Oct 13, 2008, at 8:24 AM
  • Pulpitrider, relax. I have been monitoring this board for quite some time and believe it or not, others have made mistakes. (No, most never admit they're wrong, but you'll have to trust me....)

    I usually check my emails on PolitiFact or Snopes or Washington Post Fact Checker. Of course, sometimes you get different opinions of the "facts" from each site. ;-0

    As I posted earlier, I don't think we have seen really "nasty" yet. Think it will get worse?

    -- Posted by missy08 on Mon, Oct 13, 2008, at 8:38 AM
  • missy

    I am totally not comfortable with this election - either way it goes - I think we might be in for trouble for the long haul.

    Much of what is happening now - I believe - is being orchestrated by an unseen few who will ultimately benefit from the ruin of many.

    And - though a McCain presidency is very scary - I am not sure anyone knows the whole story on Sen Obama either.

    Just a wierd place we find ourselves in these days.

    -- Posted by circuitrider on Mon, Oct 13, 2008, at 10:05 AM
  • Let me preface this by saying I am Democrat and plan to vote that way. However, I must give props to Senator McCain for defending Senator Obama, saying, "He is a decent family man, citizen, that I just happen to have disagreements with on fundamental issues." when one of McCain's supporters said that she believed Senator Obama was an "Arab". If you would like to see this clip you can go to:


    In a time of all the mudslinging and finger-pointing in this presidental campaign I think that it was very gentlemanly of Senator McCain to set this woman straight, even though she is one of his supporters.

    -- Posted by Typesetter on Mon, Oct 13, 2008, at 12:05 PM
  • Missy, I missed what was said to prompt McCain's comment about Obama, and the other part goes without saying.

    It surprises me that he would go so far as to publicly state Obama would be a trustworthy president when all along he's said just the opposite. It's the kind the remark that would ordinarily be made in private during an informal conversation, for example.

    I think he feels his opportunity slipping away. It's a little harder to tell about the person who's not animated, so you have to interpret the language, so when McCain says to his own supporters and the national tv news viewers that his opponent would be a trustworthy president, many of the undecided voters would look at that as a sign of anticipating imminent defeat.

    I'll use the analogy that's been said about Tony LaRussa, the St. Louis Cardinals manager, that oftentimes he manages the game not to win but to try and keep from losing - a half-empty, half-full glass perception. That's the distinction the public can pick up on in situations like McCain found himself in the other day.

    What is said and what is meant are very often two different things, but what is said is what gets the attention. By the time he got around to saying "...but I would make a better president," he'd already tripped himself. One of the biggest problems I see with McCain's approach to compaigning is that he adopted the half-empty glass mindset which has made his odds of winning a great deal larger than they may have been otherwise.

    -- Posted by Slater on Mon, Oct 13, 2008, at 12:36 PM
  • Typesetter, if the woman called Obama an "Arab," then I'd say McCain's reaction was not so much a gentlemanly reaction, but perhaps more an attempt to smother a perception that he condones such commentary if he ignored it.

    This is not to say that McCain isn't a gentlemen; since I don't know him personally, I can't say one way or the other. The use of the term Arab could be inflammatory at this stage, particularly so if he didn't react the way he did, on camera for the national viewing audience.

    The reason behind his reaction changes my thinking a little, about his perception of reality, but I do believe he realizes that his is a very slippery slope, indeed, and any unchecked off-hand remarks have the potential to mortally wound whatever chance he has left.

    -- Posted by Slater on Mon, Oct 13, 2008, at 12:55 PM

    I suppose it's within the realm of possibility that the incident was staged in order to portray McCain in a more humane light.

    I choose not to believe this sort of tactic would be employed, but it is a fact that desperate people will sometimes resort to desperate measures.


    I do hope that Palin takes all the loonies, like that deranged person shown on the news, to Alaska with her on November 5th. Maybe they can organize a hunting party and go kill off all the Grizzlies and Kodiaks and Polar bears and moose and caribou (but leave enough of these for Santa).

    -- Posted by Slater on Mon, Oct 13, 2008, at 1:48 PM
  • Slater, this has been such a good day and then you say something that, had you been on the campaign trail, may have been interpreted as "inciting hate".

    Shame on you!

    -- Posted by missy08 on Mon, Oct 13, 2008, at 4:22 PM
  • What???? Me inciting hate??? Not my style.

    -- Posted by Slater on Mon, Oct 13, 2008, at 4:32 PM
  • Oh yeah, and just for fun (and totally off topic from politics or drug dealers), I assume that everybody has seen this a million times but here it is one more time.....


    -- Posted by missy08 on Mon, Oct 13, 2008, at 4:37 PM
  • Actually, no, I haven't seen that video before, and, after viewing it, I'd have to say I didn't miss a thing the first time around.

    -- Posted by Slater on Mon, Oct 13, 2008, at 4:46 PM
  • Yeah, that's because you're not a "MOM".

    Did you take your pill today? You've gotten a little sour this afternoon. Maybe you need a hug.

    -- Posted by missy08 on Mon, Oct 13, 2008, at 5:04 PM
  • Missy, I think the Sarah Palin's of the world do a great injustice to any rational-thinking, self-respecting woman who aspires to be recognized as the equal to any male, chauvinist or otherwise.

    She may not have turned back the clock on the gains that women have made in recent times, but she's done her work to reinforce the age-old thinking that women are innately inferior to men.

    It's a sad story, hers, and one we would have been so much better off not having it shoved into our faces.

    -- Posted by Slater on Mon, Oct 13, 2008, at 5:14 PM
  • I'm not sure how this shifted to SP but one of your statements is waaaay untrue.

    "...woman who aspires to be recognized as the equal to any male..."

    Equal? I will not settle for equal. I consider myself equal to my husband but superior to most men.

    And, in case you were wondering, my previous comments were meant to be humorous -- this one is dead on serious.

    -- Posted by missy08 on Mon, Oct 13, 2008, at 5:23 PM
  • I'm happy to hear that you have a good self-concept. You shouldn't feel the need to defend yourself to me.

    -- Posted by Slater on Mon, Oct 13, 2008, at 5:35 PM
  • I was not defending myself and apologize if you read it as such. I was simply correcting the statement that you made. I'm sure there are some women who do feel inferior but I read your post as a general statment that implied "all" women.

    Have a great evening!

    -- Posted by missy08 on Mon, Oct 13, 2008, at 5:50 PM
  • Slater,

    You don't rise to the level in politics, or any profession for that matter, by being an idiot that you make Sarah Palin out to be. Please, Please, Please, before you start typing a hatefull reply just think about what she has accomplished. Set aside your love for the democrat party for just 2 seconds and compair her to every successfull female friend or family member you have and what they've done to achieve that level of success and then put that on a level of national praportions. Disagree with her, but Sarah Palin has not done harm to womens' image in this country. Your calling her a disgrase like you have does not do your Obama cause any good. It makes you only look like a hater and a devout follower of Obama no matter what - a disturbing concern I have.

    Let me ask you, is there anything you approve of in the McCain/Palin views or anything you disapprove of in the Obama/Biden team? If your answer is that McCain & Palin has done nothing right and are doing their best to destroy this country and Obama/Biden are the sole answer to exactly what this country needs all across the board, then it might be a good idea to do some deeper thinking.

    I respect your approval of Obama, but to toss Sarah Palin aside as a total waste of this country's time is uncalled for.

    -- Posted by MrsAKGrizzly on Mon, Oct 13, 2008, at 6:28 PM
  • Mrs. Grizzly, I don't expect, nor have I asked, anyone to accept my opinions about anything.

    Since you asked, no, there's nothing about the Republican ticket I like. Nothing.

    The Democratic canndidate is dreaming if he honestly believes he'll be able to deliver on all the changes he proposes. Obama has a lot of life and seems to have the ability to energize people, younger people who are on the hook for trillions of dollars of debt that the current crop of politicians saddled them with, and who have a greater stake in what happens because of that.

    I don't make Palin out to be an idiot. That's your choice of a word. She's clearly out of her element, since there's a lot more to being the vice president than smiling on camera. You're welcome to her, and you'll get her back on November 5th.

    -- Posted by Slater on Mon, Oct 13, 2008, at 8:59 PM
  • NanaDot and newsacross

    Since when did White Anglo-Saxon Protestant males begin viewing women as equals IN EVERY RESPECT?

    Of course they should be, but they aren't. If they were, why would there have been the FAILED effort to pass an Equal Rights Amendment?

    Why would women be paid less money (approx. 72%) for doing the identical tasks of males?

    Why is there talk of reviving the ERA?

    It's pretty straightforward to me. If women are equal and are born equal, why are they not treated equally? They have to work much harder at proving themselves, just like African-Americans do, just like Native Americans do, just like Latin Americans do, just like every minority race and culture has to do.

    You can believe that women are born equal and don't have to "ASPIRE" {(that word got you going, didn't it? :)} to equality, and I'd like nothing better than to be able to agree with you, but the evidence is overwhelmingly abundant to the contrary.

    I hope and I pray that we're about to see the birth of EQUALITY for ALL people in the not-too-distant future. Ted Turner was right on the mark when he said he believes women should in every position of authority, for maybe 100 years.

    -- Posted by Slater on Mon, Oct 13, 2008, at 9:27 PM

    If women are truly thought to be equal, why was there an ERA in the first place?

    Why do males belittle and scorn women's efforts to organize and become empowered? Women in the 1960s who marched and organized, burning their bras and proclaiming their freedom from male oppression were rebuked and called lesbians by politicians.

    To say that women are born equal in America is a cop-out in my view.

    -- Posted by Slater on Mon, Oct 13, 2008, at 9:42 PM
  • Heh heh heh...ranting is fun. :)

    -- Posted by Slater on Mon, Oct 13, 2008, at 9:47 PM
  • NanaDot, that reminds me of a scene from the movie Blazing Saddles, when Slim Pickens was spelling out a plan to the "boys" (who'd been stoking up on beans), and was nearly overcome by the fumes. :)

    -- Posted by Slater on Mon, Oct 13, 2008, at 10:32 PM
  • Hey News, haven't seen you around for a while. You been on walkabout? :)

    -- Posted by Slater on Mon, Oct 13, 2008, at 10:43 PM
  • I think Sarah Palin may be the proverbial turtle on a fence post.

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Oct 13, 2008, at 10:50 PM
  • What The, that's a tactful way to put it. Mrs. Grizzly will like you better than she does me. :)

    -- Posted by Slater on Mon, Oct 13, 2008, at 10:59 PM
  • Night All - gotta go tend to the critter. time for her bedtime snack.

    -- Posted by Slater on Mon, Oct 13, 2008, at 11:03 PM
  • It amazes me that the same people get on here and argue over the same issues over and over again and don't bother to comment on the good things going on in Marshall. There is an article on the front page titled "Owls win and so does cancer fundraising campaign: Thousands raised by Marshall students" that shows how great Marshall High School students can be. I for one would like to applaud them. They are doing something to actually help the community and it is nice to see that from kids now days. It gives me faith that our younger generation isn't just a bunch of idiots wondering aimlessly through life. Anyway, you people go ahead and argue over republican versus democrat, which by the way is pointless since neither one cares about us, they just want to get elected, and ignore the good things going on in the Marshall community.

    -- Posted by cjay on Tue, Oct 14, 2008, at 6:02 AM
  • Cjay,

    No one was stopping you from making your point and you did it well. On the other hand I feel that this may be the most important election of a lifetime.

    So forgive those of us who actually want to be engaged in that. I don't know about you but the only thing the Bush admin has done for me is cause me to pay attention. I certainly understand your frustration with the both parties and I still hope you will go vote because at the end of the day that is the only accountability these politicans are subject to.

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Oct 14, 2008, at 6:55 AM
  • Missy, I didn't say that women FEEL inferior, what I said is that women are looked at by the male chauvinists of the world as BEING inferior to the male gender.

    I would hope that NO woman feels inferior to anyone, but I'm sure that a certain number do, given their particular situation. I'm thinking of the Tennessee (yes?) woman who murdered her preacher husband because of the mental/physical abuse she suffered at his hand. She's the example of the certain few I speak of.

    It's a travesty that our legal system refuses to do what's right by women in those situations.

    -- Posted by Slater on Tue, Oct 14, 2008, at 8:44 AM
  • Mrs. Grizzly

    I'm really not the mean-spirited and vindictive person you make me out to be, nor am I married to the Democratic party.

    For a brief time a few years ago I found some of John McCain's statements to be refreshing as well as surprising for a member of the Republican party. I live in Texas, and you may recall that Dubya Bush was the governor here before moving to Washington. I didn't line him then (fiscal mismanagement), and I certainly don't like him now. He's a failure at everything he's done in his life, but it's McCain we're talking about now.

    It's as I expressed yesterday; he's gone about conducting his campaign using all the old Republican methods of distorting the facts to fit the agenda, when at the same time he says he's a "maverick." He doesn't even come close to fitting the definition.

    As for Palin, she IS out of her element. She may be good for Alaska, but Alaska doesn't represent mainstream America. I've never said she's not qualified to be the governor up there, and I'd be a fool for making such a statement. However, I stand by my statement that she doesn't represent what the 1960s NOW women were expressing as their ideal of the liberated female. My point is that ANYBODY can be argumentative - it takes no talent for that, but that single dimension gets people nowhere. John McCain has discovered that often enough. The Editorial Board of the Des Moines Register newspaper, while interviewing him recently, confronted him with some of his erroneous ads about the Democratic candidate, and he wanted to argue with them about it, even after they showed him the evidence. Politics and diplomacy go hand-in-hand, no matter what the occasion.

    I've voted for Republicans in past years, not for the White House job, but for other jobs closer to home when I believed the Republican candidate was better qualified and a better fit than the Democratic rival.

    Obviously I didn't do a very good job of explaining myself if you believe I called Palin an idiot. I reserve that term for people like Bill O'Reilly and his ilk. No, Sarah Palin is far from being an idiot, but she's also far from being the kind of person I'd expect to see as the candidate for vice president, regardless of party affiliation.

    I'm sorry you're offended by my comments, but I'm sure you realize they're not meant as a personal attack on you or anyone else in this blog.

    The American people don't deserve the political BS that goes on all around the country. It's high time we started seeing a partisan effort at all levels of government, and the only way we'll ever get that is to be involved and demonstrate our seriousness.

    -- Posted by Slater on Tue, Oct 14, 2008, at 9:41 AM
  • BEATLES 1968

    Dedicated to the McCain/Palin campaign:


    -- Posted by Slater on Tue, Oct 14, 2008, at 12:02 PM
  • Thanks, NanaDot. Here's another of my favorites:


    -- Posted by Slater on Tue, Oct 14, 2008, at 3:24 PM
  • ND, here's one way I have of connecting with God:


    -- Posted by Slater on Tue, Oct 14, 2008, at 3:31 PM
  • Here is the link with the plumber and Obama regarding the Obama tax plan....


    -- Posted by missy08 on Tue, Oct 14, 2008, at 4:14 PM
  • And my music choices would have to include --


    -- Posted by missy08 on Tue, Oct 14, 2008, at 4:19 PM
  • Missy, the music video tune sounds like an old Janis Joplin song. I believe Ethridge was one of the performers my daughter saw at the Lilithfair in Houston a few years ago.

    So, what was your reaction to the dialogue about the guy's potential tax liability? If the guy hires a good accountant he'll come out okay, but he does need to sit down with someone before he gets too deep into the purchase, I'd say.

    -- Posted by Slater on Tue, Oct 14, 2008, at 4:48 PM
  • Yes, Janis. And Etheridge has a voice like no other.

    Regarding the tax plan ... it is wealth re-distribution no matter how you cut it. I don't agree with that.

    -- Posted by missy08 on Tue, Oct 14, 2008, at 5:28 PM
  • Who would you rather see a portion of your tax dollars go to - someone who isn't able to earn enough to feed their children, or an AIG executive?

    -- Posted by Slater on Tue, Oct 14, 2008, at 5:34 PM
  • Don't get me wrong. I don't believe in freeloading, but I do believe in helping those who do what they can to help themselves in the process.

    -- Posted by Slater on Tue, Oct 14, 2008, at 5:41 PM
  • I'm already seeing a "portion" being used for whatever the congress wants to "donate" to. I just don't want to see a "higher portion" taken from my income.

    -- Posted by missy08 on Tue, Oct 14, 2008, at 5:43 PM
  • You have nothing to worry about if you earn less than $250,000. In fact, if that's your situation, you'll most likely end up money ahead.

    -- Posted by Slater on Tue, Oct 14, 2008, at 5:45 PM
  • Yep, that "portion" became eligible for redistribution in 1935.

    -- Posted by Slater on Tue, Oct 14, 2008, at 5:48 PM
  • Your concern is one that I believe Obama needs to directly address to the public, so that people will at least have a better understanding of how his proposed system will work, and also how all of us may need to bite the bullet for a time - for the common good.

    -- Posted by Slater on Tue, Oct 14, 2008, at 5:51 PM
  • Missy, go here http://www.electiontaxes.com and plug in your numbers to see what your tax liability could be under Obama's plan.

    -- Posted by Slater on Tue, Oct 14, 2008, at 6:00 PM
  • I've been there and done that. My problem is working my tail off to become educated. (No loans, no grants -- just hard work.) Continuing to work my tail off only to be taxed at a higher rate. The "American Dream" just became a nightmare. Work harder and pay more?

    Now, before you scream, I am not implying that others don't work just as hard. But I don't agree with his plan.

    -- Posted by missy08 on Tue, Oct 14, 2008, at 6:07 PM
  • No screaming. Only time will tell if the current construction of his plan is implemented as is, but I'd guess it would need some refinements beforehand.

    I have faith that it'll work mostly as expected, but I'm sure it won't work to everyone's satisfaction.

    The rules favor people who earn in excess of the $250,000. limit, and he told the guy in the video that he should expect to be able to reduce his tax liability through scheduled deductions so that he should avoid any tax increase.

    -- Posted by Slater on Tue, Oct 14, 2008, at 6:27 PM
  • "scheduled deductions" -- isn't that tax deductions? Won't that just be a smaller portion at a time? Did I totally misunderstand that?

    -- Posted by missy08 on Tue, Oct 14, 2008, at 6:32 PM
  • The business will produce a variety of deductions and depreciation he'll be able to take advantage of. That's why I said the guy needs to get himself a good accountant now before he gets too far into the purchase process, so he can begin anticipating what items he can expense. That's what Obama was implying, but he should have been clearer on that for the guy.

    -- Posted by Slater on Tue, Oct 14, 2008, at 6:36 PM
  • It sounded like all the guy was thinking about was the $278,000. the business grossed last year.

    He should have an accountant go through the books of the business to make sure he's buying what he thinks he's buying (no hidden debt, etc.), and to make a preliminary determination of expense items.

    -- Posted by Slater on Tue, Oct 14, 2008, at 6:43 PM
  • I strayed a little from the topic. There will be an armload of things the guy can deduct - mileage, unforms, equipment depreciation, office expenses, phones, etc. etc.

    All things being equal, he'll do fine, especially if he can experience some good growth in the short term. In fact, if it were me, growth would be the first priority. The net profit on last year's gross earnings may not be that great. A number of factors could influence that.

    -- Posted by Slater on Tue, Oct 14, 2008, at 6:57 PM
  • Slater

    Thank you for taking the time to write a half-way thoughtfull reply. As a conservative minority in this blog, I certinly know ahead of time not to take political comments personally. That being said, you should be clarified on some of the things you and Nana said.

    Concerning the sports arena..."She" did not have anything built or in anyway do anything wrong concerning it's location. The voters of Wasilla voted in favor of it in March of '02 and knew full well where it was going. I'm not sure what you read or where you read it, but as I realtor here I can asure you, that is a common occurance in new construction of non-residential property as it probably is in many other states, to start construction without a clear title. Partly because of the very short construction season and in many times in Alaska it is native owned land, in which case they commonly give out 99 year leases on. This was decided 6 months before I moved to Wasilla so I don't know, and neither do you. Aside from that it's an old tired issue, only relevant to dogma guzzling partisans bent on destroying Palin at any cost. Voters in Wasilla and the entire state have overwhelmingly approved of Palin over her entire political career. Her approval only dipped when she was selected as a V.P. candidate, a completely organic reaction during the high tide of election season. Please don't even try to tack to the "Red State" label, this is a very independent and in many ways a highly liberal place.

    And why does Wasilla, Alaska not represent mainstream America? Please tell me it's not because of our geographic location, or our weather or snowfall. We have EVERYTHING you have in Texas (excepts palm trees and Olive Gardens). Our little towns look exactly and operate exactly as any other in the lesser 48. You should visit Alaska sometime and I think your opinion of how detached and Un-mainstream American we are would change - I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion in the first place, because it's patently false and completely ridiculous, and your comment regarding the National Organization for Women is the proof in the pudding, as if NOW somehow represented ANYTHING mainstream at all. Residents of Wasilla are sick and tired of watching Palins record distorted beyond recognition. Partisan dribblers like the dwellers on this board just continuously regurgitate lies when they don't even know what they are talking about. I can assure you that her lifestyle and how she lives her life works for her and that she and her husband and their family all seem to be happy and TOGETHER. What more do you want? The idea that Palin somehow amounts to a threat to womens rights is utterly ridiculous and demonstrably false based on her record and her rhetoric. It's a lie and a political hot button designed to appeal to "single issue voters" who operate on some mysterious ideological fuel that burns white hot and never runs out. It's also designed to appeal to the ignorant reactionaries who have no idea about middle school civics and the functions of each co-equal branch of government in the U.S.

    As far as Tasergate is concerned, the only people, and I mean the ONLY people who even give a half **** about this are the jokes like Hollis French, a man whos far reaching connnections to both Steve Branchflower AND Walt Monegan are certain to never find their way to CNN or MSNBC, and the partisan lunatic Obama bots who look for even the slightest hair out of place to attack her on. Trooper Wooten was a POS criminal cop and Monegan should have done his job and fired him. He went against the govorner at every turn and was offered another well paying ($107,000 a year) job and he didn't want it. I use my common sense in deciding wether or not I think Todd was in the wrong in protecting his family and the public from this DUI, child-tasing, poaching "law enforcer". End of story. Where were the headlins, "Governor Abuses Power","Trooper Tases Stepson", "Monigan Refuses To Take Complaints About Trooper" before August 29th? I've said it before, and I'll say it again, nobody gave a **** about this story untill she was selected for VP and it was years in the making! I just love how they called an EMERGENCY session to decide on this while she was still running. Why was this not an emergency 6 months ago or last year? They spent $100,000 of my tax dollars on this BS "invesitgation"/witch hunt by-they-way.

    As for Todd bothering Monegan over the rogue trooper in question, if you visit the State of Alaska website and look at the FAQ section, you'll find that the state directs any citizen who has an issue or complaint against a peace officer to the office of the Comminsioner of Public Safety, Walt Monegans former front door. Does Todd forgo the right to complain to the commissioner over a rouge cop once he becomes the 1st spouse of Alaska? I think not. He did everything he should have done exactly as he should have done it. Palins only "abuse of power" was that she didn't reign either Todd or her staff in on the Wooten issue, small potatoes, but just enough to make national headlines. Anyone with a credible non-partisan perspective knows very well the entire issue is a hit job on Palin designed to embarass her during her bid for the V.P. slot. There's way more detail on the issue that isn't being reported but we'll leave it there for the moment.

    And inciting "HATE" based on "rumors" Nana? Give me a break. The brilliant political minds of Sanda Bernhart & Madonna & Pam Anderson are just some of the few I can't have my morning coffee without. I don't see Obama or Biden condeming the hate vomit coming from their mouths. You fling lots of fecal matter at Palin, but I noticed neither of you gave any explanation as to his connection with committee-sharing and non-disapproval of Ayers from Obama. The U.of Illinois released last week in their Chicago Annenberg Challenge that shows their relationship was an intimate collobaration and that it lead to the only executive experience in Obama's life. What about the America-hating Rev. Wright or that nut-job, Father Pfleger. And how about that now imprisioned, criminal, pal Tony Rezko of Obamas? How about the brother he has living on $5 a month in Kenya...Obama makes a decent living, couldn't he help him out? Oh wait, he can't vote for Obama; to hell with that!

    Now, what, you ask, is my explanation for her not knowing what the Bush Doctorine was? Charlie Gibson didn't even know what the bush doctrine is. The man who coined the term, Charles Krauthammer, even wrote a piece on "Charlie Gibsons Gaffe" regarding that question. The truth is that the definition of the Bush doctrine didn't even exist in any singularity until Charlie played gotcha with Sarah. We ALL know what it is now though don't we?

    Here, from the horses mouth:


    Why didn't she name any Supreme Court Cases she disagreed with? Brain ****? I don't know - I can't defend that one. She should have mentioned the Exxon Valdez decsion. Why would she not name a few publications she reads? That's a terrible question to answer. You wouldn't give kudos to say, the New York Times or Time magazine who couldn't write an informative, objective piece if their lives depended on it. Yet she did cave at her second interview. I personally don't make much of it. Nor do I make much of Biden saying that FDR got on tv during the crash of 1929 to explain the economic situation. Or when he said paying taxes was our patriotic duty. Or when Biden said the US would not build any new clean coal plants which directly contradicts what Obama is saying. Or when he had to appologize for an ad saying McCain couldn't use a computer when it already known he can't raise his arms much because of his war injuries. The difference between Biden and Palin there? Biden has had 30-some years to perfect his answers and stances in the camera of a national spotlight. Palin has had a few weeks.

    I think Obama belongs in a straight jacket if he thinks my kindergartner needs sex ed. It's very disturbing that he wants to kill babies who survive botched abortions. His collective group of America haters and terrorists as advisors and friends is dangerous for this country. Lets not forget that his wife said that she finally had something to be proud of in her country when her husband was elected as a presidental hopefull. He's privately asked an Iraqi foreign minister to stall an arrangement to have U.S. troops removed untill after the elections, so the messiah himself may take sole credit for "saving us" from this war.

    Point is, the bucket of overly-liberal BS Obama is surrounded by just may drown us all. Some of us are trying to avoid it and the rest are embracing it and excusing it. Sadly, I believe the Pied Piper will win this election and then god help us all. I personally look forward to watching the national collective roast Obama on a spit for four years like they do every president, and if he doesn't resign in disgrace before four years are up, or fail to secure his parties nomination as he shouldn't have in the first place, Palin will make short work of him without McCains people around constantly trying to stuff her into a conservative mold that she will never fit into. Bottom line, if McCains people have botched the Palin brand and reduced their chances with their cynical approach, it's no fault of Palins.

    -- Posted by MrsAKGrizzly on Tue, Oct 14, 2008, at 7:25 PM
  • Slater, the plumber and I have very little in common in regard to our "situations". No help there. Trust me, I have a great accountant.

    AK, you go, girl. However, I've finally decided that conservatives are just "wired" differently than liberals. It does no good to argue. (But you get points for trying!!!)

    -- Posted by missy08 on Tue, Oct 14, 2008, at 8:07 PM
  • Missy, thank you. It really isn't ment to argue, rather to let any of my fellow conservatives know who read this that they're not alone even if they choose not to jump into the lions den like I do.

    Thanks for the points though.

    -- Posted by MrsAKGrizzly on Tue, Oct 14, 2008, at 8:28 PM
  • Mrs. Grizzly, if you'd been reading and absorbing my posts all along you could have saved yourself a lot of babbling.

    End of discussion.

    -- Posted by Slater on Tue, Oct 14, 2008, at 8:45 PM
  • Mrs. Grizzly,

    I couldn't help but notice while reading your post, taking a nap and then reading the rest that you you managed to omit Todd Palin's membership in the Alaskan Independence Party.You know, the party that advocates secession from the union? Sarah even went to rallies with him and this past summer made a video for thier membership telling them to "keep up the good work". Where was that little jewel?

    Wheter you like it or not she did abuse her power but after 8 years of the Bush admin. doing the same thing on a much larger scale I can only surmize that for conservatives that must just be SOP.

    Do us and yourself a favor. Next time you get one of those "e-mails" get off your brain and do a little research before you forward the BS.

    BTW, thanks for the past 8 years. Your children and grandchildren are going to have to pay for it.

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Oct 14, 2008, at 10:38 PM
  • What the... your name couldn't be any more fitting. It's exactly what comes to mind anytime I read anything you write.

    "A jewel"?...come on, hardly. That's the amo you've got?

    ...and why would you assume I voted for Bush? That's pretty irresponsible attacking of you.

    "Wheter you like it or not"....like I said, I use my common sense to pass my judgement. You use technicaliies when it's convenient. She broke no laws.

    You deserve the government you get.

    -- Posted by MrsAKGrizzly on Tue, Oct 14, 2008, at 11:28 PM
  • Slater......why do you always seem to think you have the last word on everything??

    -- Posted by GOCHIEFS on Wed, Oct 15, 2008, at 4:22 AM
  • Mrs. Grizzly.

    Yes I think Todd's involvement with the AIP was a jewel and I would like to know why you didn't mention it.

    She broke no laws. Wow! Why didn't I think of that? I guess that just makes everything regarding her abuse of power and her questionable ethics ok then. Whew! I'm glad you cleared that up.

    Maybe you didn't vote for GW but I really don't think Sarah Palin is moving forward.

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Oct 15, 2008, at 7:13 AM
  • I know that level headed conservatives are few and far between on this forum, and crazy not-so-level-headed conservatives are even harder to find here. But here I go again -

    Though many of the regulars on this forum are obviously HIGHLY EDUCATED, WELL READ individuals - Apparently, many supporters of Senator Obama know very little when it comes to 20th century history.

    As one commentor on another forum said -


    And did anyone read what the honorable (?) Rev. Jackson had to say about Obama and how he will take care of the Zionists in America in a dramatic fashion and move the nation away from our alliance with Israel.

    And to think that I've been called hateful, or a racist, or just plain stupid. Having the support of Jesse Jackson is reason enough NOT to vote for Obama. The man (Jackson) is a self-agrandizing, anti-Semitic lunatic.

    And history should speak to the outcome of such attitudes.

    -- Posted by circuitrider on Wed, Oct 15, 2008, at 8:51 AM
  • I really find it intersesting how conservatives are wailing about Obama and redistribution of wealth when in fact our current admin. is doing just that right now with a trillion dollar bailout. Where's your outrage over that?

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Oct 15, 2008, at 9:56 AM
  • One more thing pulpit rider,

    Way to play the fear card (golf clap). Typical.

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Oct 15, 2008, at 9:57 AM
  • I believe that I have been fair at deriding both sides of the current presidential campaign as well as the failed practices of the current administration.

    I too am outraged over the bailout and am just waiting to see how bad it turns out for the common U.S. citizen.

    I say let the corps that made this mess - and profitted in a huge way from it - bail themselves out or go bust. It should be on their heads, not ours and the generations to come.

    I think many conservatives see the last 6-7 years as a nightmare that should never have happened and cuouldn't have been dreamed up - even by the staunchest Democrat.

    I also believe that we need real change in Washington - not just in the White House - and that neither of the current nominees will be able to bring that about.

    Furthermore, I see no "fear card" being played.

    No one seems to want the truth - whether they support McCain or Obama. And, sadly, we never hear the truth from the mainstream media or from internet "journalists" or from most of the sources we read, quote, and believe.

    Most of us are just thinking we deserve better. Probably even you - wtf.

    -- Posted by circuitrider on Wed, Oct 15, 2008, at 11:31 AM
  • Ok pulpit rider,

    Who could get it done? Who should be president?

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Oct 15, 2008, at 11:49 AM
  • I think the big oil companies that recorded record profits should've bailed out the big boys!

    The middle class CANNOT keep taking care of the lazy , the rich and the illegals!

    -- Posted by tommob on Wed, Oct 15, 2008, at 12:21 PM
  • Huckabee








    Just to name a few -

    Anyone who isn't a Bush insider, anyone who isn't comfortable inside the beltway, and anyone who has at least a LITTLE bit of executive experience. And someone who doesn't have an anti-gun agenda.

    Any of these names familiar to you?

    -- Posted by circuitrider on Wed, Oct 15, 2008, at 1:29 PM
  • I agree with tommob - oil comapnies should be invovled in this bail out - paying something.

    And hey - wtf - with regard to your post - what does "typical" mean?

    -- Posted by circuitrider on Wed, Oct 15, 2008, at 2:02 PM
  • face it neither party is worth voting for , so what is a person to do ????

    -- Posted by gokinser11 on Wed, Oct 15, 2008, at 4:29 PM
  • Well its finally happened...MDN has printed classified real estate ads in spanish ONLY .I guess Todd and associates isnt interested in your business if you only speak english.

    -- Posted by GOCHIEFS on Wed, Oct 15, 2008, at 5:36 PM

    Anybody watch?

    -- Posted by Slater on Wed, Oct 15, 2008, at 5:46 PM
  • Go Chiefs, I'll make an exception, just for you. Go ahead, get in the last word.

    -- Posted by Slater on Wed, Oct 15, 2008, at 5:49 PM
  • PulpitRider, I'll give it a try:

    Huckabee - A children's book about bugs;

    Pryor - A city in Oklahoma;

    Beebe - A projectile fired from an air rifle;

    Hutchinson - A city in Kansas;

    Pawlenty - A substitute for Grey Poupon;

    Gibbons - Belongs in the ape family;

    Richardson - Played football at Slater HS 60 years ago;

    Sebilius - Composer of some interesting music.

    How'd I do? :)

    -- Posted by Slater on Wed, Oct 15, 2008, at 6:01 PM
  • Hey there, GoChiefs, you think maybe they know that something is going to happen after the election, like blanket amnesty?

    -- Posted by BlackBird on Wed, Oct 15, 2008, at 6:24 PM
  • I like your list, Pulpitrider. Interesting, accomplished people who generally don't fit neatly on an ideological continuum.

    What's frustrating about the election process nowadays is that no one of their ilk can get through the primaries.

    Oddly enough, the highest achievers at the campaigning game aren't necessarily the best at governance. I'm not sure what the solution to *that* problem is, but I know that we voters have to take a good deal of responsibility for the situation, because we seem to favor the campaigners over the competent governors most of the time.

    After two Bush terms and an endless campaign season, I admit I've developed a longing for a little less bold leadership and little more boring old competence.

    -- Posted by Eric Crump on Wed, Oct 15, 2008, at 6:50 PM
  • Get some McCain or should I say that Palin will do real well in the White House. Bout time we get some "tude" in house that is not affrade of telling politicians where to go.

    -- Posted by para-chic on Wed, Oct 15, 2008, at 10:24 PM
  • I was just looking at the 1860 election numbers, and Lincoln won with .3986% of the vote. I had previously thought the number was somewhat lower, based on some figures I thought I remembered from a chalkboard at school.

    What significance does this have, you might ask?

    Absolutely none, other than a testament to what you can find online.

    -- Posted by Slater on Wed, Oct 15, 2008, at 11:05 PM

    How is it looking for Nixon? Anyone?

    -- Posted by Slater on Wed, Oct 15, 2008, at 11:22 PM
  • You figure this one out. I really do not understand how Ms. Palin's thought processes work.

    The report found that Ms. Palin violated a statute of the Alaska Executive Branch Ethics Act, which says "each public officer holds office as a public trust, and any effort to benefit a personal or financial interest through official action is a violation of that trust."

    Reacting to the report in a phone conference with reporters on Oct. 12, Ms. Palin stated the following in regard to the report's findings."Well, I'm very, very pleased to be cleared of any legal wrongdoing, any hint of any kind of unethical activity there. Very pleased to be cleared of any of that."

    Ms. Palin's interpretation of the finding, as she expressed it has to be either prevarication, an outright lie, or she just does not understand the finding. You tell me.

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Oct 16, 2008, at 12:55 AM
  • Let's talk about "Joe the Plumber". This whole notion of a plumber who doesn't yet own his own business but is making 250 Thousand a year just kills me. I've been a teacher in Missouri for a quarter of a century. I'm just barely making fifty thousand BEFORE taxes and I'm supposed to feel for this guy? I say tax the hell out of him. He made that much by fleecing the rest of us at eighty or more dollars an hour. If I could charge that much an hour I'd be making about fifty thousand more than I am now.

    -- Posted by momaster on Thu, Oct 16, 2008, at 6:49 AM
  • Momaster, maybe you should become a plumber. :-0

    I think Joe, the plumber, is buying the business and that is the business income. Of course, he also said he was working 10 or 12 hours a day. (I'm sure that is 12 months a year.) There are a lot of things to consider -- insurance (health and workman's comp), sick time, retirement, liability, etc.

    I think teachers should make a heck of a lot more than they do but if we want to criticize incomes, why don't we talk about pro sports?

    -- Posted by missy08 on Thu, Oct 16, 2008, at 7:14 AM
  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbgLAGuSfzA

    This is the youtube link for the whole "Joe, the plumber" interview.

    -- Posted by missy08 on Thu, Oct 16, 2008, at 7:17 AM
  • The 545 People Responsible For All Of U.S. Woes

    By Charlie Reese

    (publication date unknown)

    Politicians are the only people in the world who create problems and then campaign against them.

    Have you ever wondered why, if both the Democrats and the Republicans are against deficits, we have deficits?

    Have you ever wondered why, if all the politicians are against inflation and high taxes, we have inflation and high taxes?

    You and I don't propose a federal budget. The president does.

    You and I don't have the Constitutional authority to vote on appropriations. The House of Representatives does.

    You and I don't write the tax code, Congress does.

    You and I don't set fiscal policy, Congress does.

    You and I don't control monetary policy, the Federal Reserve Bank does.

    One hundred senators, 435 congressmen, one president, and nine Supreme Court justices 545 human beings out of the 300 million are directly, legally, morally, and individually responsible for the domestic problems that plague this country.

    I excluded the members of the Federal Reserve Board because that problem was created by the Congress. In 1913, Congress delegated its Constitutional duty to provide a sound currency to a federally chartered, but private, central bank.

    I excluded all the special interests and lobbyists for a sound reason.

    They have no legal authority. They have no ability to coerce a senator, a congressman, or a president to do one cotton-picking thing.

    I don't care if they offer a politician $1 million dollars in cash.

    The politician has the power to accept or reject it.

    No matter what the lobbyist promises, it is the legislator's responsibility to determine how he votes.

    Those 545 human beings spend much of their energy convincing you that what they did is not their fault. They cooperate in this common con regardless of party.

    What separates a politician from a normal human being is an excessive amount of gall. No normal human being would have the gall of a Speaker, who stood up and criticized the President for creating deficits. The president can only propose a budget. He cannot force the Congress to accept it.

    The Constitution, which is the supreme law of the land, gives sole responsibility to the House of Representatives for originating and approving appropriations and taxes. Who is the speaker of the House?

    She is the leader of the majority party. She and fellow House members, not the president, can approve any budget they want. If the president vetoes it, they can pass it over his veto if they agree to.

    It seems inconceivable to me that a nation of 300 million can not replace 545 people who stand convicted -- by present facts -- of incompetence and irresponsibility. I can't think of a single domestic problem that is not traceable directly to those 545 people. When you fully grasp the plain truth that 545 people exercise the power of the federal government, then it must follow that what exists is what they want to exist.

    If the tax code is unfair, it's because they want it unfair.

    If the budget is in the red, it's because they want it in the red.

    If the Marines are in IRAQ , it's because they want them in IRAQ .

    If they do not receive social security but are on an elite retirement plan not available to the people, it's because they want it that way.

    There are no insoluble government problems.

    Do not let these 545 people shift the blame to bureaucrats, whom they hire and whose jobs they can abolish; to lobbyists, whose gifts and advice they can reject; to regulators, to whom they give the power to regulate and from whom they can take this power. Above all, do not let them con you into the belief that there exists disembodied mystical forces like "the economy," "inflation," or "politics" that prevent them from doing what they take an oath to do.

    Those 545 people, and they alone, are responsible.

    They, and they alone, have the power.

    They, and they alone, should be held accountable by the people who are their bosses provided the voters have the gumption to manage their own employees.

    We should vote all of them out of office and clean up their mess!

    Charlie Reese is a former columnist of the Orlando Sentinel Newspaper.

    -- Posted by Gal66 on Thu, Oct 16, 2008, at 7:20 AM
  • Thanks, Eric, for your take on my list. I guess you said what I was thinking when I made the list.

    Slater - good job with the list. HAHA

    And I agree with Charlie Reese - it's not JUST the admministration. All of the elected officials in Washington share in the blame for the ills we face.

    Just don't know how to fix it. Many times we re-elect problem people because of their longevity in the Senate or House, which we perceive as a good thing. When in truth, it seems that the longer someone is in Washington the more entrenched they become and the more beholden they are to special interests, etc.

    Just a thought.

    Peace to All - and remember - God is still on the throne.

    -- Posted by circuitrider on Thu, Oct 16, 2008, at 8:58 AM
  • I might also add that it appears to be VERY easy to be mis-interpretted on this sight.

    The fact that some people are not comfortable with anyone who disagrees with them having a forum to warn others about what IS NOT being said on newscasts and in print should not preclude those with differing opinions from posting here.

    Trying to get others - conservatives and liberals alike - to open their minds to other, non-mainstream viewpoints and ideas is not an easy task.

    To get personally attacked for such efforts seems like senseless complaining and a feeble attempt at self-preservation and/or self-elevation.


    -- Posted by circuitrider on Thu, Oct 16, 2008, at 9:10 AM
  • PulpitRider, I believe you're absolutely correct about misinterpretation. It's very easy to mistake criticism of content for personal criticism. I believe that no one posting here is deliberately attacking other individuals. As the candidates expressed last night, good debate is an essential part of learning. If we all do our best to stay clear of reporting erroneous information, then all of us can benefit from sharing the knowledge we've acquired during our research of the candidates and issues.

    Obviously, it's difficult at best to know how some remarks are intended; hence the misinterpretation you mentioned. Sometimes we're too quick responding to criticism which, on the surface, may appear to be personal in nature, and we may not always keep in mind the suggestions by our host when he reminds us to try and understand what was said and how it was said before we reply. I know at times I've been as guilty of this as anyone, the latest being just yesterday when I posted a sarcastic reply to a comment made about me by GoChiefs. We can't please all of the people all of the time; we can only do our best to maintain a civil tongue.

    As to the matter raised by C. Reese, I know many of us have stated the same opinion. Since the legislators won't set term limits for themselves, we can essentially do it by the vote. HOWEVER, it's incumbent upon us, the public, to avail ourselves of the records generated by our elected officials before we begin a wholesale movement to change every face in Washington. I'm certain that we do have some dedicated, honest, reasonable, reliable legislators doing their very best to live up to their obligations to the public and our country. It's easy enough to know that - all any of us has to do is look at the records of their activities.

    It's been a long, long time since I was involved in Scouting, but here's a point that I've relied on as a guide from time to time:

    On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country, and to obey the law; to help other people; to keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight.

    This oath may seem trite to some, but it's part of my belief structure, and I'll always be thankful for the experiences during that time of my life.

    -- Posted by Slater on Thu, Oct 16, 2008, at 10:19 AM

    I have two questions:

    1. How many believe the video conversation betweetn Obama and Joe the Plumber, and McCain's reference to it last night, has relevance?

    2. If you believe it has relevance, in what way is it relevant?

    -- Posted by Slater on Thu, Oct 16, 2008, at 12:20 PM
  • Of course it has relevance. The video has Obama explaining his tax plan -- not a sound bite -- not a surrogate -- him explaining his tax plan.

    -- Posted by missy08 on Thu, Oct 16, 2008, at 12:35 PM
  • What if it had been McCain explaining his tax plan?

    And I still want to know how you see it as being relevant, not just the video, or McCain's commentary last night, but rather the context in which the conversation took place. Maybe this will clarify my questions.

    -- Posted by Slater on Thu, Oct 16, 2008, at 12:57 PM
  • If it had been McCain's plan, in McCain's words, it would also have been relevant. Isn't information what we are all wanting? The context? It was a question asked and answered during a campaign stop/rally. Why would it not be relevant?

    -- Posted by missy08 on Thu, Oct 16, 2008, at 1:08 PM
  • Here's the way I see it. It doesn't matter who Joe was talking to - it could be anyone - McCain, Obama, Clinton, Bush, Carter, anybody.

    The point is, it's a total stranger asking a question that had no real answer in that context.

    How could he expect anyone to tell him definitively about his potential tax liability?

    Obama made the mistake of trying to give him a more detailed answer than was possible in that situation. Joe should have realized that his question couldn't be answered by Obama, or by anyone else in that same context.

    Bob Schieffer asked a similar question last night when he asked if the deficit could be elimiinated over the next four years. That was a dumb question and one neither could answer no matter how hard they might try.

    It had no relevance.

    -- Posted by Slater on Thu, Oct 16, 2008, at 1:22 PM
  • So, in other words, you did not like Obama's answer so you refuse to accept that it was relevant. Okay. So why even bring it up?

    -- Posted by missy08 on Thu, Oct 16, 2008, at 1:31 PM
  • You've missed the point of the exercise. Joe could have said on camera, thanks and I'll be voting for you, and it wouldn't have made one bit of difference in the point I've made.

    As Shakespeare said, it's much ado about nothing.

    That's the point and I don't know how I could make it any clearer.

    -- Posted by Slater on Thu, Oct 16, 2008, at 1:36 PM
  • Slater how can someone asking Obama or McCain what their tax plan will do to them not have a relevance?

    -- Posted by Gal66 on Thu, Oct 16, 2008, at 2:13 PM
  • Slater, I hate to break it to you. You didn't make a point. You asked an opinion. I gave one. You obviously didn't like it.

    Joe asked a question. He got an answer. Of course, he didn't say "thanks, I'll vote for you". It is nobody's business who Joe plans to vote for.

    The answer is what was important. Maybe you should watch the video again. And maybe this time you could "absorb" what it says.

    -- Posted by missy08 on Thu, Oct 16, 2008, at 2:16 PM
  • This is interesting..... un-newsworthy but interesting...........


    -- Posted by missy08 on Thu, Oct 16, 2008, at 2:38 PM
  • You make whatever you want out of it. There's nothing there to absorb except for a foolish question with an equally foolish answer.

    If you watched the debate last night, you most likely heard Shieffer ask the two if the deficit could be eliminated in four years.

    Think about that question, and, if you can, imagine all the variables that impact ANY answer put forth. It's the KIND of question that NO one knows the answer, because of all the things that could happen in the four-year period.

    Joe asked the same kind of question. I don't know how on earth he SHOULD expect ANYONE, other than a tax person, to give him the answer he was seeking.

    Answers to questions are shaped by the context in which they're presented. Pure and simple. Joe the Plumber asked a pointless question, and Bob Shieffer asked a pointless question. Many,

    If you don't understand what I'm saying, then you get an F and you have to stay after school. :)

    -- Posted by Slater on Thu, Oct 16, 2008, at 3:11 PM
  • Pardon me, Mr. Plumber, for not geeting into this discussion about your non-question and Obama's non-answer, but I was wondering if anyone is concerned about the gun control issue.

    I have listed some of Mr. Obabam's thoughts on gun control, along with their sources. I am concerned about this on many levels - but most of all how he might mess with the 2nd Amendment.

    For your reading pleasure:

    Obama on Gun Control

    Ok for states & cities to determine local gun laws

    Q: Is the D.C. law prohibiting ownership of handguns consistent with an individual's right to bear arms?

    Obama: As a general principle, I believe that the Constitution confers an individual right to bear arms. But just because you have an individual right does not mean that the state or local government can't constrain the exercise of that right, in the same way that we have a right to private property but local governments can establish zoning ordinances that determine how you can use it.

    Q: But do you still favor the registration & licensing of guns?

    Obama: I think we can provide common-sense approaches to the issue of illegal guns that are ending up on the streets. We can make sure that criminals don't have guns in their hands. We can make certain that those who are mentally deranged are not getting a hold of handguns. We can trace guns that have been used in crimes to unscrupulous gun dealers that may be selling to straw purchasers and dumping them on the streets.

    Source: 2008 Philadelphia primary debate, on eve of PA primary Apr 16, 2008

    FactCheck: Yes, Obama endorsed Illinois handgun ban

    Obama was being misleading when he denied that his handwriting had been on a document endorsing a state ban on the sale and possession of handguns in Illinois. Obama responded, "No, my writing wasn't on that particular questionnaire. As I said, I have never favored an all-out ban on handguns."

    Actually, Obama's writing was on the 1996 document, which was filed when Obama was running for the Illinois state Senate. A Chicago nonprofit, Independent Voters of Illinois, had this question, and Obama took hard line:

    35. Do you support state legislation to:

    a. ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns? Yes.

    b. ban assault weapons? Yes.

    c. mandatory waiting periods and background checks? Yes.

    Obama's campaign said, "Sen. Obama didn't fill out these state Senate questionnaires--a staffer did--and there are several answers that didn't reflect his views then or now. He may have jotted some notes on the front page of the questionnaire, but some answers didn't reflect his views."

    Source: FactCheck.org analysis of 2008 Philadelphia primary debate Apr 16, 2008

    Respect 2nd Amendment, but local gun bans ok

    Q: You said recently, "I have no intention of taking away folks' guns." But you support the D.C. handgun ban, and you've said that it's constitutional. How do you reconcile those two positions?

    Obama: Because I think we have two conflicting traditions in this country. I think it's important for us to recognize that we've got a tradition of handgun ownership and gun ownership generally. And a lot of law-abiding citizens use it for hunting, for sportsmanship, and for protecting their families. We also have a violence on the streets that is the result of illegal handgun usage. And so I think there is nothing wrong with a community saying we are going to take those illegal handguns off the streets. And cracking down on the various loopholes that exist in terms of background checks for children, the mentally ill. We can have reasonable, thoughtful gun control measure that I think respect the Second Amendment and people's traditions.

    Source: 2008 Politico pre-Potomac Primary interview Feb 11, 2008

    2000: cosponsored bill to limit purchases to 1 gun per month

    Obama sought moderate gun control measures, such as a 2000 bill he cosponsored to limit handgun purchases to one per month (it did not pass). He voted against letting people violate local weapons bans in cases of self-defense, but also voted in2004 to let retired police officers carry concealed handguns.

    Source: The Improbable Quest, by John K. Wilson, p.148 Oct 30, 2007

    Note : I personally see no reason for anyone to purchase more than one handgun per month, unless it is Christmas and you're going to a family reunion. Nice gifts.

    Concealed carry OK for retired police officers

    Obama voted for a bill in the Illinois senate that allowed retired law enforcement officers to carry concealed weapons. If there was any issue on which Obama rarely deviated, it was gun control. He was the most strident candidate when it came to enforcin and expanding gun control laws. So this vote jumped out as inconsistent.

    When I queried him about the vote, he said, "I didn't find that [vote] surprising. I am consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry. This was a narrow exception in an exceptional circumstance where a retired police officer might find himself vulnerable as a consequence of the work he has previously done--and had been trained extensively in the proper use of firearms."

    It wasn't until a few weeks later that another theory came forward about the uncharacteristic vote. Obama was battling with his GOP opponent to win the endorsement of the Fraternal Order of Police.

    Source: From Promise to Power, by David Mendell, p.250-251 Aug 14, 2007

    Ban semi-automatics, and more possession restrictions

    Principles that Obama supports on gun issues:

    Ban the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons.

    Increase state restrictions on the purchase and possession of firearms.

    Require manufacturers to provide child-safety locks with firearms.

    Source: 1998 IL State Legislative National Political Awareness Test Jul 2, 1998

    Note: This ban would include the shotguns most folks use for pheasant, goose and duck hunting as well as many 22 caliber "plinkers" and many deer and big game rifles. Are we willing to let the government take away that 12 gauge goose gun that grandpa left us or that 22 we were hoping to pass along to our grandkids?

    AGAIN - these are not the ravings of an extremist, or someone who is paranoid - these are Obama's own words.

    Any opinions?

    -- Posted by circuitrider on Thu, Oct 16, 2008, at 3:38 PM
  • If your theory is correct regarding the "pointless questions" then all questions to candidates are pointless.

    "Your concern is one that I believe Obama needs to directly address to the public, so that people will at least have a better understanding of how his proposed system will work, and also how all of us may need to bite the bullet for a time - for the common good.

    -- Posted by Slater on Tue, Oct 14, 2008, at 5:51 PM"

    Hmmmm, guess you've changed your mind about this.....

    -- Posted by missy08 on Thu, Oct 16, 2008, at 3:38 PM
  • Pulpitrider, yes, gun control is an issue that I'm concerned about. I have my concealed carry and I have been known to carry my gun...

    Be careful, Slater will call these "pointless questions".... ;-0

    -- Posted by missy08 on Thu, Oct 16, 2008, at 3:45 PM
  • pulpitrider, have you seen this youtube video?


    -- Posted by missy08 on Thu, Oct 16, 2008, at 3:47 PM
  • I haven't seen it but my son has. He said it was pretty frightening. I guess I should give it a watch.....

    -- Posted by missy08 on Thu, Oct 16, 2008, at 4:16 PM
  • notgvnasht - The topic of that movie might give all that watch it some minor insight as to why President Bush reacted as he did after 911. I am certain much more is known about these people by our government than is displayed in the film. I don't like a lot of the decisions made by our government over the last several years but I have to say that they have at least tried to do something about it instead of just sit back and let it happen. No matter who is in charge this is a sevious problem that must stay very high on our priority list and it will envolve decisions that will not be popular. I only hope we can elect someone that we feel we can trust and stick with through these tough decisions. I don't know if either of the two gentlemen we have to choose from fit that bill but we are going to find out very soon.

    -- Posted by broke-n-busted on Thu, Oct 16, 2008, at 5:52 PM

    Here ya go - here's the story on Joe the Plumber, who works for Newell Plumbing Contractors in Ohio.

    Joe doesn't have any license, as you'll discover, if you bother to read the article.

    Also, Newell Plumbing has estimated gross earnings of $100,000., not what Joe claimed.

    I'll use a Republican tactic here and go paranoid and say that Joe was a McCain plant.


    -- Posted by Slater on Thu, Oct 16, 2008, at 6:31 PM
  • Anyone hear about Fitzgibbon hospital failing a Medicare inspection and losing it's swing bed status? The entire skilled Nursing unit has shut down. Meanwhile it's leadership blames the understaffed people that were in that unit for this debacle and sends them to training on what their jobs are supposed to be. Hey Ron,how about providing appropriate staffing levels in all the departments? This is the fault Ron Ott who refuses to hire enough nurses. How embarrassing to have it made public and on record that Fitzgibbon can not provide good care to its patients.

    -- Posted by capitalistchick on Thu, Oct 16, 2008, at 6:58 PM
  • Missy, I'm giving you an F for the semester. Go look around that school you're attending and find the Philosophy Department and sign up for a class or two.

    -- Posted by Slater on Thu, Oct 16, 2008, at 7:01 PM
  • I recommend anyone with an emergency go to I-70 medical center in Sweet Springs. You will be treated with respect, have your emergency treated in a timely manner which more than justifies the drive, and will have better care all around. I bet people who go there get their business done and are back in Marshall in half the time it takes to do anything at Fitzgibbon. It's called being competent.

    -- Posted by capitalistchick on Thu, Oct 16, 2008, at 7:12 PM
  • Actually Slater, I am not attending school. Graduated a looooong time ago. You can give me whatever grade you want -- I still get an A. You ask the question, get the answer, don't like the answer, so you decide the question is "pointless". Whether Joe the Plumber is a licensed plumber, a registered republican or a discussion board participant that goes by "slater", he asked a question, he got an answer, and according to Obama, *if* he was making over $250,000 a year, he would be in a higher taxable income bracket.

    I'm through with this one. Take it like a man.

    -- Posted by missy08 on Thu, Oct 16, 2008, at 7:35 PM
  • If anyone missed the Alfred Smith Charity Dinner speaches by both canidates, you should find it on YouTube or a newschannel website and watch. It's really funny and light years away from the poo slinging.

    It's worth watching. I promise you'll laugh.

    -- Posted by MrsAKGrizzly on Thu, Oct 16, 2008, at 9:27 PM
  • Indeed, Nana. Indeed.

    -- Posted by MrsAKGrizzly on Thu, Oct 16, 2008, at 9:38 PM
  • Hey capitalistchick,

    The bad part about all this is we've known about this for over two weeks, but once again our local newspaper avoids running a story. If it was one of our other health care facilities (i.e. Marsaline Manor or Golden Oaks) they would be pounding it into the ground. People need to quit drinking the Kool-Aid.

    Our community needs to know how poorly that place is being run. The record is not that great out there. Our community is sinking ALOT of money in that hospital and it is time they are accountable.

    -- Posted by a realist on Thu, Oct 16, 2008, at 10:44 PM
    Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
    We didn't avoid the story. I didn't know about it until it was posted here. We'll follow up.
  • Thanks Mrs. AKG for giving us a heads up to view the McCain and Obama speeches at the Al Smith Charity Dinner. They are funny, and a breath of fresh air. I heartily recommend them to Republicans, Democrats and folks of every political persuasion. Watching, and listening to them was, for me, like experiencing a political decompression chamber.

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Oct 17, 2008, at 12:58 AM

    This is my apology to everyone in here for my rude behavior toward a certain individual yesterday. I'd just been talking about not disrespecting others, and I allowed myself to be drawn into that very thing, I'm ashamed to say.

    I want you to know that this gesture is made in good faith.

    -- Posted by Slater on Fri, Oct 17, 2008, at 11:17 AM
  • Notgvn, NanaDot's thumbnail of historical events is pretty accurate according to the facts as they are known. History can be either very dull or it can be fascinating, depending on the period/events being examined, of course. Unfortunately, most history textbooks relate the details in a monotone, as I would describe it. That's why I like individual perspectives which generally present history in a more compelling light.

    The biggest shortcoming with a Hollywood production of the type you've referenced is that the storyline is "based on fact," which of course allows a considerable amount of latitude. A movie is embellished in order to generate interest and profit, oftentimes at the expense of the facts.

    -- Posted by Slater on Fri, Oct 17, 2008, at 12:43 PM
  • They cannot keep help at Fitzgibbon because they pay crappy wages.Mr. Ott apparently doesn't realize that if it weren't for the support staff the hospital wouldn't make it. Too many Chiefs and not enought Indians!!!!

    -- Posted by tommob on Fri, Oct 17, 2008, at 1:18 PM
  • I would recommend anyone interested in information regarding The Living Center's inspections by the Department of Health & Sr. Services go to www.medicare.gov/NHCompare. In '06 & '07 they had level 3 deficiencies (actual harm to a resident). In '08 they had 18 health care deficiencies. This doesn't even count the inspection they lost their Medicare funding for because it's not posted yet. That information is public & The Living Center is required to keep a copy of those deficiencies readily available for anyone that wishes to read them. I would recommend that anyone who's placing a loved one in a nursing facility ask to read their last Statement of Deficiencies. Don't assume that just because they're attached to a hospital, because it's newer, or possibly more convenient that they provide better care. Staff require supervision & you can't provide that supervision when you're sitting in meetings all day at the hospital.

    -- Posted by JustFYI on Fri, Oct 17, 2008, at 4:09 PM
  • Eric, the only thing that I have noticed is signs showing up here that I didn't put there.

    -- Posted by John Q. on Fri, Oct 17, 2008, at 9:31 PM
  • On the nursing home issue, I inquired several years ago for a certificate of need "CON" for building a facility in the Marshall area. The Department of Aging, stated that there was an excess of units by twenty-eight beds in Saline county. Without a CON issued by the Department of Aging a facility would not qualify for state payments for eligible clients no matter how great the facility was.

    If a church/faith based non-profit wants to build a facility for parishioners I don't think they would have a problem operating the facility because they can draw clients from a wide geographic area. Except in Marshall because there is twenty-eight empty beds.

    -- Posted by John Q. on Fri, Oct 17, 2008, at 9:48 PM
  • Okay, folks, the Obsession video has been distributed by the Clarion Fund because we are a swing state. Do some research on this organization. Its intent is to try to persuade voters to vote for McCain. Yes, there are extremists, but the majority of Muslim people are peace loving. Be very careful about making generalizations. While we should always be vigilant, we cannot get sucked into a McCarthyism mentality. Here is an NPR article that gives it all some perspective.


    Don't let this video determine your vote. Its distribution was very well timed...on purpose.

    -- Posted by oneofmany on Fri, Oct 17, 2008, at 10:05 PM
  • NanaDot - Reality Break?

    -- Posted by John Q. on Fri, Oct 17, 2008, at 10:31 PM






    -- Posted by foster on Fri, Oct 17, 2008, at 10:50 PM

    Your a GREAT spoksman for Obama, Foster!!! Keep up the hard work!

    -- Posted by MrsAKGrizzly on Fri, Oct 17, 2008, at 10:59 PM
  • Mrs. Grizzly,

    It's hard to say if Foster's post is legitimate or not but then again that is the case with all of our posts. Maybe you should give them the benefit of the doubt since they seem to be new here and let them post thier opinion without your being condescending and sarcastic. You seem to reflect the general attitude of the GOP and it doesn't reflect well on you.

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Oct 18, 2008, at 7:53 AM
  • WhatThe, the lives of a certain few in here must really be miserable, and the only way they can make themselves feel better is through their sniping and pettiness.

    Yesterday I decided I'll just consider the source and go on about my business.

    -- Posted by Slater on Sat, Oct 18, 2008, at 9:11 AM

    Throughout the last few months of the campaign, I've wondered why neither candidate has mentioned the working class people of the nation. All I've heard referenced is the middle class. A guest on Bill Moyers' Journal talked about this.

    Last night Bill Moyers had as one of his guests, Michael Zweig, economics professor at the State University of New York-Stony Brook, who has done a study of working class individuals in America. He made a number of interesting comments as he reviewed the highlights of the study.

    If you're interested in what he learned, open the link I've included and read the transcript of their conversation last night:


    -- Posted by Slater on Sat, Oct 18, 2008, at 11:33 AM
  • NanaDot, do you recall that little group Nixon called his Dirty Tricks Committee, or something to that effect?

    -- Posted by Slater on Sat, Oct 18, 2008, at 11:50 AM
  • No Slater, Fosters post was robotic and without thought. (I believe this was a cut and paste job - you know, going from one forum to another).

    Not that I would ever tell you about it, but I agree with Obama on more than one issue. There are good arguments to be made on Obamas behalf and I seek and do my best to have a good healthy back & forth. Foster made his Obama supportive debut here, and it was uneducated, generic, and unmotivating.

    Stop illigal immigration & enforce english speaking to be taught in our schools!

    BTW, if I had come on here as a McCain supporter & produced that grammerless piece of "writing", I would have sufficated in hate rebuttle and you know it.

    WhatTheF...., in response to your comment, I remember my first post here - apparently I need to think like you to be treated with decentcy as is the general theme with this Democratic campaign.

    -- Posted by MrsAKGrizzly on Sat, Oct 18, 2008, at 12:06 PM
  • Mrs. Grizzly, I don't mind admitting (and I already have in this case) that at one time I liked some of the things McCain was saying, back about eight yeears ago, probably. I believe, as many other Democrats do, I'm sure, that he's basically a good person with the best of intentions most of the time. Actually, I think if you got him out of the political arena, he'd be an interesting and maybe even a fun person to be around.

    It has to be a pretty darn tough exercise being a presidential candidate and having to conform to party wishes when you know another way would be better sometimes. They're both in that boat, but it does appear that McCain has a lot less freedom than Obama.

    I heard Nancy Pelosi make an unusual remark the other night on the Charlie Rose program. In response to a comment by Rose that there's talk of the Dems being in control for the next 30 years or more, she said no, our two-party system works better when we trade places. To me that's an odd way of thinking about it, if you believe there's no point in trying to fix things that aren't broken.

    The division between the parties has become so wide, or at least the perception of that makes her statement seem out of place to me. If they were closer in philosophy, there'd be little to concern us when one party takes over from the other, but we have this back and forth constant bickering that would preclude a smooth transition of control between the two. I often wonder if the politicians posture themselves to give the public a certain impression, or if they really do differ so greatly. If I had to choose, I'd say they're creating an illlusion in order to advance their own agenda.

    Are you going to tune in to SNL tonight and watch Tina Fey and Sarah Palin? :)

    -- Posted by Slater on Sat, Oct 18, 2008, at 12:46 PM
  • I can't believe I'm going to say this.... Pelosi is wright. I didn't hear that, though I would tweek her comment to say that you need an equal Democrat and Republican presence ALL the time. If Obama is elected, we'll have a decocrat in the white house followed by a democratic House and Senate. The Democrats will have complete control and even level headed Dems has to know that means no good. There's no Checks and balances.

    Government needs people who are just this side of the right and just this side of the left to give it the best opportunity to work well.

    My eyes will be glued to SNL tonight. Tina Faye has said she's quitting the face of the earth if McCain & Palin are elected. I wonder how their personal interaction will go.

    I bet you it'll have one of the best ratings SNL has ever seen. I can't wait! :)

    -- Posted by MrsAKGrizzly on Sat, Oct 18, 2008, at 1:25 PM
  • I voted the first time in the 1964 general election, and in fact I cast an absentee ballot there in the court house (age 22).

    Nixon was right when he said, "I'm NOT a crook!" He wasn't an ordinary crook, he was the Godfather.

    Have you read Liddy's book, Will? I liked it, actually. Whoever helped him with it did a good job of tempering his ego as his story unfolded.

    The Watergate scandal came to light when Howard Hunt's wife died in a traffic accident while on the way to deliver hush money. The suitcase full of cash found in the car spurred the investigation.

    It certainly would be interesting to know how many dirty tricks are being used during this campaign, other than that movie?

    -- Posted by Slater on Sat, Oct 18, 2008, at 3:48 PM
  • Nixon was noted for a couple of other things, also. He was behind the commie witch hunt investigation of the movie industry people, many of whom were wrongly accused/convicted of being card carriers.

    During Eisenhower's first term, when Castro came to Washington seeking financial assistance for Cuba, Ike turned him over to Nixon, who proceeded to belittle Castro to the point where he left and subsequently signed on with Kruschev; hence Castro's hatred of the US.

    -- Posted by Slater on Sat, Oct 18, 2008, at 4:05 PM
  • ...and you're right, NanaDot. I AM old, but not as old as dirt. heh heh

    -- Posted by Slater on Sat, Oct 18, 2008, at 4:35 PM
  • By the way, I was off on the time of Castro's visit. It was in 1959, rather than 1954.

    -- Posted by Slater on Sat, Oct 18, 2008, at 4:53 PM
  • Slater, as a young man Castro's greatest ambition was to be a major league baseball player. He came to the United States during the Batista years and tried out for several teams. The report was that he was talented but he didn't have enough on his fast ball. He was never recruited again. Can you imagine how history could have turned out if Castro made it to the MLB?

    -- Posted by John Q. on Sat, Oct 18, 2008, at 7:03 PM
  • Slater, NanaDot is very intelligent, articulate and well read and full of it information. It comes from many many years of formal education and life study.

    Does the term three days older than God come to mind?

    -- Posted by John Q. on Sat, Oct 18, 2008, at 7:15 PM
  • He seems to have a wealth of information at hand, so, yes, three days sounds about right, JohnQ. :)

    That's interesting about Castro's baseball experience. I didn't know he'd been over here for that, but I'm not much on baseball trivia.

    Yes, indeed, history may very well have been different. Maybe no Bay of Pigs flop which in turn might have allowed me to keep my job at the CIA.

    -- Posted by Slater on Sat, Oct 18, 2008, at 7:42 PM
  • I think I'm going to be glad I didn't go up to Austin for the MU-UT game tonight. It has the makings of a UT massacre. :(

    -- Posted by Slater on Sat, Oct 18, 2008, at 7:53 PM
  • I just got through paying seventy one cents sales tax on a ten dollar purchase at Subway.

    Seven cents on the dollar?

    I know the basic Missouri Sales Tax but I hope someone can break down the rest of the tax for me. It would appear we have managed to vote away a significant part of our income.

    This was a kind of a wake-up call for me. I once had an Economics Professor say the moment we were expending more than one third of our income on taxes, we would be living in a Socialistic State.

    Have we reached that point yet?? What do you think?

    -- Posted by red dog on Sat, Oct 18, 2008, at 9:26 PM
  • Don't forget you're paying some extra for the courthouse renovation.

    -- Posted by Slater on Sat, Oct 18, 2008, at 10:34 PM
  • Seven cents on the dollar is what they have been paying in tax in the states of NY and MASS for over a decade. Guess we are all headed in the same direction.

    -- Posted by momaster on Sun, Oct 19, 2008, at 8:27 AM
  • Former Sec. of State Colin Powell endorsed Barack Obama for President this morning. Sen. McCain has called Mr. Powell 'one of the most credible, most respected men in America;' he was considered as a running mate for Sen. McCain & has advised the last three Republican Presidents. He made several, well thought out reasons for his decision and at the same time showed the respect(rightfully earned from us all)and admiration that he has always held for Sen. McCain.

    -- Posted by modemocrat on Sun, Oct 19, 2008, at 10:22 AM
  • Well let's see, according to comments and standards being set by the liberals; any white person who supports John McCain is a racist. By those standards we could assume that any black person that supports Barack Hussein Obama is a racist (which actually may have some merit since 95% of blacks are going to vote for Mr. Obama, and many will tell you that it is because of race). So this would bring us to the conclusion that Colin Powell is a racist! Actually I doubt that he is a racist any more than I believe most white people who support John Sydney McCain are racist.

    What I do believe is that Mr. Powell sometimes makes poor choices and that his judgment was probably clouded by race. What little respect I had left for Colin Powell just got flushed down the toilet. I knew he had liberal tendencies, but to support an ultra-liberal socialist, with a glaring lack of experience, who has surrounded himself with shady, questionable characters all of his life (and has even been mentored by many of them) tells us a lot about the real character (or lack thereof) of Mr. Powell.

    I would support a black person for President in a second if he or she were the right person for the job. There are a number of blacks in politics that certainly could fill the bill; Jr. Senator Obama just isn't that person. Senator McCain's character and credentials is head and shoulders (actually several heads and shoulders) above Mr. Obama's!

    -- Posted by Billfromraytown on Sun, Oct 19, 2008, at 11:45 AM
  • Somebody out there might be able to help me. I've been thinking a lot about this election and something that bugs me. Seems to me there are fewer and fewer people working and more and more people collecting. Obama is proposing a tax that will affect only 5% in order to help 95%. What happens when he figures out that there aren't enough people making over $250K to support those on the other end? Then will he keep lowering the top end? And they keep saying on the news that like 30 or 40% don't even pay tax? How do you get in that club?

    -- Posted by joethefarmer on Sun, Oct 19, 2008, at 12:41 PM
  • Billfromraytown said:

    "Well let's see, according to comments and standards being set by the liberals; any white person who supports John McCain is a racist."

    Can you back that up with some sources Bill or should I just go to Rush's website?

    I haven't heard anyone say that nor have I seen any "liberal standards" set forth regarding any support of McCain being racist.

    If Obama were elected would you support him and try to help bring our country togther to meet the problems we face or would you conintue to be as divisive as you sound?

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Oct 19, 2008, at 1:19 PM
  • It was 1984 when I last played the golf course there, and I think my favorite hole would be the par 3? (don't recall the number) where you hit off the tee box sitting high above the green and overlooking a wild and wooly gulch which I'm sure has gobbled up many a ball over the years {(including one of mine :))}.

    I was just thinking about how I'd like to play that course again, and I'm wondering how it's changed since the last time I was there.

    -- Posted by Slater on Sun, Oct 19, 2008, at 1:29 PM
  • I certainly have not watched/heard the comments & standards "the liberals" have used in making racist charges. Could you provide some examples?

    Would you give us a list of people of color you believe to qualified for the presidency?

    Now lets talk about issues....wait we don't want to do that do we. Racist/race mentioned five times; liberal references three times; black/white referenced six times......Colin Powell is a liberal & lacks character!?! Oh I forgot it's those darn liberals & their media outlets that keep us from discussing the 'important' issues in this election.

    -- Posted by modemocrat on Sun, Oct 19, 2008, at 1:36 PM

    This is a classical music competition featuring finals performances from the 9th Annual Sphinx Competition Concert. The competitors, all Hispanic and African-American, are accompanied by an orchestra composed entirely of Hispanic and black musicians. This program features performances from the three junior division finalists and the senior division laureate.

    -- Posted by Slater on Sun, Oct 19, 2008, at 1:57 PM

    The first of a two-part series on the life of Lyndon B. Johnson, this program chronicled the president's childhood in impoverished rural Texas; Johnson's rise to political power on the strength of his public assistance message; the charges of ballot stuffing that haunted Johnson after his early run for the U.S. Senate; John F. Kennedy's assassination and the self-doubt Johnson felt at having assumed the presidency through no effort of his own; and Johnson's victory in the 1964 election, which he considered both a personal and political achievement.

    -- Posted by Slater on Sun, Oct 19, 2008, at 2:03 PM

    For years, big business -- from oil and coal companies to electric utilities to car manufacturers -- have resisted change to environmental policy and stifled the debate over climate change in America and around the globe. Now, facing rising pressure from governments, green groups and investors alike, big business is reshaping its approach to the environment, fundamentally transforming the politics of the debate. Producer Martin Smith travels the globe to size up the climate problem firsthand and to test what big business is really doing to solve one of the most urgent issues of our time.

    -- Posted by Slater on Sun, Oct 19, 2008, at 2:07 PM

    Heh heh heh, you guys are funny. Are we all so old that even time is now ignoring us? :)

    -- Posted by Slater on Sun, Oct 19, 2008, at 2:14 PM
  • Nana, will you cite your source of those percentages for me? I'd like to do my own homework on that..


    -- Posted by MrsAKGrizzly on Sun, Oct 19, 2008, at 3:57 PM
  • ....aside from the link given I mean.

    -- Posted by MrsAKGrizzly on Sun, Oct 19, 2008, at 3:59 PM
  • Mr. Dot, ordinarily the time one awakens is not the imperative. Please lie down on the couch and describe for me your usual mental processes and physicality as you reach consciousness... :)

    But, seriously, I've come to realize that my bones don't ache as much if I get up after 5-6 hours.

    My 4am alarm comes in the form of the cat leaping on me and planting herself until I begin stirring.

    -- Posted by Slater on Sun, Oct 19, 2008, at 4:43 PM
  • I don't mind paying my share but I tell you what. I'm working 12 hours a day sometimes more. I don't want a hand out. I pick up some extra cash working for one of my neighbors. I bet if he has to pay those higher taxes I won't have that job. It just don't seem fair.

    -- Posted by joethefarmer on Sun, Oct 19, 2008, at 5:28 PM
  • Anyone looking for information on the lopsided distribution of wealth in this country might take a look at Kevin Phillips' "The Politics of Rich and Poor." Very enlightening.

    -- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sun, Oct 19, 2008, at 7:55 PM
  • Nana, thank you for doing the foot work I was too lazy to do. The 2nd link of the last post you had was really interesting. The blogs they have going are pretty good, most of them. One, I think, sums up what I think posters like joethefarmer and I are wanting to convay...

    "I don't believe in distribution of wealth (Obama)...I believe in distribution of opportunity to obtain you're own wealth.(McCain)."

    A large portion of democratic supporters are far below the poverty line. Ask a welfare reciepient, if they vote at all, they vote democratic. This country has a problem with people who LIVE off these handouts and thats what we conservatives can't stomach.

    I am sympothetic to the reciepient who is driving an older model car, wear second-hand clothes & buys off-brand groceries during this time frame of need; it shows the sincerity of their situation and shows they're putting the resources of what they DO have towards what they NEED to get by for right now. What angers me is the reciepient who has a cell phone, laptop, boob jobs (oh yes, I've seen it), nails & hair done, shiny new rims on their '05 Honda, flat screen tv's all while they clog the emergency rooms with petty ailments, rack up department store credit card debt & recieve assistance-paid childcare. These people obviously have resources, but it's certinly no fun to spend your paycheck on an electric bill; Espically when the government is ready to pay it for them while feeding their "victim" mintality so they see republicans as the enemy. That's how they farm poor poeples' votes. Conservatives expect those down-on-their-luck to aspire to better themselves and relieve themselves of having to accept welfare & foodstamps. When they don't, it gives fuel to the anti-"spread the wealth" Obama proposed tax plan.

    People, the poor cannot give you a job. The Obama campaigns "spread-the-wealth" plan is hoping Americans have enough annomosity built-up against the rich to get him into the white house.

    Where does your income come from? A small business? A large coorporation? Think about it.

    As Joe Biden might say: I have 3 words for you. Personal Responsability.

    BTW, did anyone catch what the ratings were for SNL last night? ;) I thought it was funny. Anyone see the Suzie Orman skit? hehehe

    -- Posted by MrsAKGrizzly on Sun, Oct 19, 2008, at 9:23 PM
  • Nana, your a bleeding heart, and god bless you for it!

    "wouldn't it be great to have a chance at a hand UP, at fairer trade and labor policies, instead of HOPING that the rich will 'trickle down' a little of their 80%?"

    What do you mean by a 'chance at a hand up'? Do you feel you don't have the opportunity to step up in the world? Your leaving it up to us to interperate your meaning. Labor policies? Explain. Why do you want their money to trickle down to you? Those 'rich' are wealthy in your eyes, but I guarantee you theres many out there who look at what you have and feel the same about you. Their not happy with the income you have, the house you live in, the car you drive. What do you say to them when they tell you how unfairly life has treated you in respect to them? "How dare you afford to have a computer and internet access when I can't!"

    The way I see it, it is not ok that they take a higher percentage from you to give to that guy, Nana.

    Insead, give him a break on College education - I mean a big break like 100% for the first 2 years for anyone from a household making less than, say $45,000. That way they have the same opportunity to have an interview with the company you'd hope to work for. Anyone who comes from a disadvantaged home in a bad neighborhood and broken family with little income and still manages to complete High School is a hero to me! Hell yeah I'll pay for his college! TEACH him to fish in a sense.

    " do we really value work, do we accord those who WORK the same 'respect' that we PAY the wealthy; do we feel DIGNITY in doing our work, do we HONOR those who labor?"

    Of course we value work. The lady who checked my gorceries this afternoon has a value. The guy who put new brakes on my car last week has a little more value in his time. The woman who filled my child's prescription has a little value in her time and the anastheologist who put me to sleep for my surgery last year has a little more value in his time still.

    Dignity in doing our work? I would hope, otherwise you might want to find a different line of work. Honor those who labor? Your starting to loose me there....

    -- Posted by MrsAKGrizzly on Sun, Oct 19, 2008, at 10:34 PM
  • hehe. Was it something I said?

    Lets ask the constantly-straining hospitals in California why our healthcare costs have gone up so much.

    Wipe the foam from your mouth.

    -- Posted by MrsAKGrizzly on Sun, Oct 19, 2008, at 10:50 PM
  • Kathy; you might want to read about the Marxist roots of "Black Liberation Theology" as preached by Jeremiah Wright at Trinity United Church of Christ (Mr. Obama's so called "church" for many years). There you will discover that re-distribution of wealth is part of their misguided, distorted, dangerous, ultra-liberal teaching.

    -- Posted by Billfromraytown on Sun, Oct 19, 2008, at 11:04 PM
  • Oh yes, Kathy; I must add that you might find it "very enlightening".

    -- Posted by Billfromraytown on Sun, Oct 19, 2008, at 11:10 PM
  • Hey! I refuse to accept the title of Grand Geriatric among those posting on this blog. I am certain that White Tornado has a fortunate few years on me, and I suspect that Jo may be the most ancient of active posters.

    Having said that I will own up to living in Marshall so many years ago that I had the good fortune to ride a Marshall city bus from our residence in northwest Marshall to downtown with my older (twelve) cousin. I also had the opportunity to stand in our yard looking south to the tracks, transfixed by the big black locomotives, steam puffing from their stacks, hearing the haunting wail of the whistle as they hurried through town. In that same yard I would peer into the sky when I heard a distant rumble from the east of huge flights of propeller driven bombers being ferried to the west coast to continue the war against Japan. The sound was deafening as they passed over head, and I would cover my ears against the barrage.

    Sadly, I remember older friends of my parents, and their teen daughter, coming to our house in tears, having just gotten word that their only son had died in combat. I particularly felt sorry for the daughter who was kind enough to read her comic books to me when they visited. No comic books on that day.

    That experience gave me, even as a little boy, some appreciation of what it was all about the evening my father burst in the house, with a huge smile on his face, and shouted the war is over! A sense of joy and well being consumed me.

    He packed us all in the car, Dad and Mom in the front, we kids aligned across the back seat, and drove to the square. People were driving around and around the square, bumper to bumper, horns honking. I particularly recall one car with a sailor in his whites, astride the front fender of an old car, waving a big red, white ,and blue, as the impromptu people's parade continued. What a Grand Marshal. The sidewalks in front of the stores were thronged, more people were waving flags, some were shouting, and, or jumping around. In all my nearly sixty eight years I have not again seen any crowd, where every countenance beamed with ecstatic joy and relief. I was mesmerized.

    So, Slater, NanaDot, John Q., and the rest, you missed something, something magical. Don't you wish you were as old as dirt like me?

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Oct 19, 2008, at 11:40 PM
  • OKR,Indeed, I do wish I could have witnessed the celebration. I was not quite 4 when that took place, so I most likely wouldn't have remembered it, which means I'm very appreciative of your recounting that time. What a vivid picture you've created for a poignant moment in history!

    -- Posted by Slater on Mon, Oct 20, 2008, at 12:05 AM
  • BillfromRaytown,Mrs.Grizzly,

    Again I ask, especially after the past 8 years, give me one good reason why I should reward the GOP with my vote. Should we reward those who gave us an illegal war for profit? Should we reward those who gave us the outing of a CIA employee(Treason)? Does anyone want to start a pool for the exact date that GW pardon's Scooter Libby?Should we also reward those who gave us suspension of Habeus Corpus, illegal wire tapping and torture? The list goes on and on. This is America, or least it used to be. Think of all the men and women who died to make sure that those things never happened, yet here we are.

    We can no longer pride ourselves on taking the high road but we can aspire to getting back on it. So I'll ask again, give me one good reason why I should reward the party that gave us all this.

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Oct 20, 2008, at 6:43 AM
  • Mr. Bill - You may want to take another look at Phillips' book instead of focusing on Wright. And you may also want to look at another Phillips book, "American Theocracy," in which, according to a New York Times review, Phillips "identifies three broad and related trends -- none of them new to the Bush years but all of them, he believes, exacerbated by this administration's policies -- that together threaten the future of the United States and the world. One is the role of oil in defining and, as Phillips sees it, distorting American foreign and domestic policy. The second is the ominous intrusion of radical Christianity into politics and government. And the third is the astonishing levels of debt -- current and prospective -- that both the government and the American people have been heedlessly accumulating. If there is a single, if implicit, theme running through the three linked essays that form this book, it is the failure of leaders to look beyond their own and the country's immediate ambitions and desires so as to plan prudently for a darkening future."

    Pay particular attention to the second item about radical Christianity...there is no lack of that in the current campaign, and most of it, if not all, is coming from the Republican side.

    -- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Mon, Oct 20, 2008, at 8:01 AM
  • Glad to see some people care about the local hospital and what is going on. This issue directly affects the community. The way I understood it, the Skilled Nursing Unit that was shut down was part of the hospital, separate from the nursing home. When the SNU was built 3 or 4 years ago, there was worry about how it would be staffed because no positions had been opened. At employee forums Ott would answer this question by telling us "existing staff" would be pulled into this new unit. This was upsetting due to the understaffed nature of all areas in the hospital. So the SNU was staffed with people pulled from the nursing home? Which was/is desperately understaffed also. Can someone clarify this for me? I'd sure like to know what corrective actions are being taken to fix this problem (the failed medicare inspection and revoked swingbed status). Apparently the hospital is going to be allowed to not have to answer to the public about this.

    -- Posted by capitalistchick on Mon, Oct 20, 2008, at 10:05 AM
    Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
    Hospital officials plan to issue a statement today. We'll post a story as soon as possible.
  • This goes out to Ms. Fairchild. Since when is an Episcopal considered "radical christian"? It was Obama's minister or former minister that yelled and screamed blasphemy and "damned America"! Christianity does not talk like that from the pulpit or any where else for that matter. America will be in "deep trouble" with your views on what true faith in God is! When everyone's friend Barack says "God Bless America", he says it with as much emotion as a wet noodle. I suggest that you and everyone else pray really hard for our country. We are going to need it if the liberal's get there way!

    -- Posted by farmer'sgranddaughter on Mon, Oct 20, 2008, at 11:16 AM
  • Editor Crump, how about putting up a survey question about voter dress code?


    -- Posted by Slater on Mon, Oct 20, 2008, at 11:48 AM
  • Mrs. Grizzly, here's the SNL ratings info I found:

    Nielsen Media Research won't have a complete count of Saturday's audience until later in the week. It will likely be around 14 million people -- and 17 million for the first half hour, when the opening skit happened.

    -- Posted by Slater on Mon, Oct 20, 2008, at 11:54 AM
  • Farmersgranddaughter,

    The consv. have had it for 8 years. How can the libs possibly do any worse? Calm down and take a breath. The libs are NOT the demons that you make them out to be.

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Oct 20, 2008, at 11:55 AM
  • When is it too early to put up Christmas Decorations?

    -- Posted by MrsAKGrizzly on Mon, Oct 20, 2008, at 12:49 PM
  • I'm not a fan of the ever-increased commercialism associated with the holiest of holiday observances.

    -- Posted by Slater on Mon, Oct 20, 2008, at 1:13 PM
  • Oh my gosh! Slater and I agree on something! I put my tree up after Thanksgiving. Uh-oh, I do leave a couple of Nativities out all year but I don't consider those "Christmas decorations".

    -- Posted by missy08 on Mon, Oct 20, 2008, at 1:46 PM
  • Wonders never cease, as they say. :)

    -- Posted by Slater on Mon, Oct 20, 2008, at 2:02 PM
  • Didja miss me? I had a looong weekend in the trenches. Glad to be back home.

    -- Posted by missy08 on Mon, Oct 20, 2008, at 2:13 PM
  • If I lived alone I'd leave the decorations up year round, so that maybe the spirit of good will would stay with me all year long.

    -- Posted by Slater on Mon, Oct 20, 2008, at 2:14 PM
  • Anytime before the 1st of December.

    If it was not for the kids I would not even put up a tree :-(

    But them I am getting older not as old as dirt but older................LOL

    -- Posted by Gal66 on Mon, Oct 20, 2008, at 2:30 PM
  • My all-time favorite Christmas story is O'Henry's Gift of the Magi.

    -- Posted by Slater on Mon, Oct 20, 2008, at 2:38 PM
  • Does anyone know anything about three of our restaurants not passing health inspections. I think that would be a good thing for the public to know. The Kansas City paper makes this public knowledge. It might be a good incentive for these restaurants to clean up their act!

    -- Posted by tommob on Mon, Oct 20, 2008, at 2:52 PM
  • tommob - Which three restaurants? And what is your source of information?

    -- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Mon, Oct 20, 2008, at 3:47 PM
  • farmer'sgrandaughter - There are plenty of ministers, Christian and otherwise, who have used their pulpits to preach messages of hate and division. My point is that this or any other kind of preaching doesn't belong in the political arena. That includes Wright, of course, but it also includes all the rest who believe that God is on their side and who use their pulpits to condemn everyone who doesn't believe as they do. This has become particularly pervasive in the last 25 or so years and in my opinion, hasn't done a thing to help improve the political climate in this country.

    -- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Mon, Oct 20, 2008, at 4:21 PM
  • I don't have a reliable source, so I don't think it would be appropriate to name them in a public forum, but I did hear about the 3 restaurants. It is my understanding that 1 was cited for mouse droppings, 1 for mouse droppings and roaches, and 1 for reusing bread that had been served but not eaten. That's all I know about that.

    Additionally, I wanted to just say that I got gasoline in Sedalia over the weekend at Walmart for $2.25 per gallon and that was not even with the 3 cents off I could have gotten if I would have used my Walmart card. In Marshall this weekend Walmart's gas fluctuated between $2.49 and $2.41. Shop Marshall first...but then go to Sedalia because it's almost worth the 30 mile trip for 20 to 25 cents less a gallon on gas. Plus, you can go to Lowes, JC Penney, Ryan's Buffet, Colton's Steakhouse, etc. When gas got really high my family quit making as many trips to Sedalia as we once did, but when gas is that much cheaper I don't think we will mind making the trip. Can anyone explain why Marshall's gas prices always seem to be higher than some of the towns around us?

    -- Posted by Typesetter on Mon, Oct 20, 2008, at 4:26 PM
  • Typesetter, compared to Columbia, Marshall's gas prices are great. Prices in Columbia are still $2.79. So even though, Marshall is higher than Sedalia, it could be a great deal worse.

    -- Posted by ckstaley on Mon, Oct 20, 2008, at 4:35 PM
  • Typesetter: At the prices you cite, you saved between 60 and 70 cents in the cost of gas on your 60-mile roundtrip, assuming your vehicle gets at least 15 miles per gallon. On the other hand, you chewed up about 50 cents per mile ($30 in all) when you count depreciation, insurance, etc., which is the true cost of what it takes to drive to Sedalia and back.

    I'll grant you that there are more stores in Sedalia than in Marshall, but unless there is something you really need that you can't get locally, the actual cost is a good deal more than it seems at first glance.

    -- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Mon, Oct 20, 2008, at 4:58 PM
  • Yep, Typesetter, and by spending your hard-earned money outside of Marshall, you didn't contribute to the courthouse renovation project! :)

    -- Posted by Slater on Mon, Oct 20, 2008, at 5:26 PM
  • Marshall is my hometown and I love it. I support lots of Marshall's causes to include the Lighthouse Shelter, Saline Animal League, and more. All I'm saying is that whenever possible I shop Marshall, but there is no Lowes in Marshall. Yeah, I could get hardware at a local hardware store, but not after say Noon on a Saturday. There is no longer a JC Penney here, we do have Stage, but most of the clothes there are smaller sizes, the larger sizes they have are limited and often reflect the tastes of people that are much older than I. (I do like Catos though.) And as far as I'm concerned this town needs a nice buffet restaurant, steakhouse, or some other nice go in, sit down, restaurant. I know Marshall has Applebees and Bloomfields, but if you don't leave town often you get tired of eating at the same limited choices of eating establishments here. Plus, if you want to eat after 9:00 p.m. your choices here become even fewer. Thus, all I am saying is if you are heading out of town for something different to do, because you would like to have a little different choices when shopping or eating, or you are needing something you cannot find in Marshall, Sedalia would be a good place to go due to the gas prices being much cheaper there. I know gas prices in Columbia are higher, and people may not want to drive as far as KC...where gas prices are also lower. I will bet that most every Marshallite has at one point or another shopped in a different town when they couldn't get what they needed or wanted here. So I don't believe I'm the only person that has ever not allowed every penny of my tax dollars go toward my hometown and its causes.

    -- Posted by Typesetter on Mon, Oct 20, 2008, at 7:16 PM
  • One of my mother's sisters lived in Kansas City and when I was little my mom and I would ride the train to KC to visit and to do some shopping. I may have seen you out there watching the trains go by.

    The passenger service was called the Puddle Jumper because of all the jerking it did. I remember hanging on to keep from being pitched out of the seat as it started and stopped. Maybe the cars back then didn't have very good slack adjusters.

    My maternal grandfather was an engineer for the old Chicago and Alton Railway Co., and riding the train back and forth between Slater and KC, along with listening to his stories, gave me the bug for train travel, which I've never lost. It's too bad rail travel has declined so much.

    I asked my sister today what happened in Slater after the war ended, and she said there was a lot of excitement, and then a few days later came a parade and a memorial service at the gravesite of the first casualty from Slater. I've collected some WW2 photos and file footage including some of the celebrating after it ended. America was definitely a different place then, with a much different collective attitude, at least for a time, until things settled down and the troops came home and resumed their lives. I'm just thinking about Rosie the Riveter, and how the women who'd worked producing the war materials were being forced to return to the home, gladly in some cases but grudgingly in others.

    When I was maybe 9 or 10, I recall one day seeing a big groups of bombers flying over, headed northeast. I'd never seen that many planes in a single formation before, and it was fascinating.

    I'd always be subconsciously listening for airplanes, and I remember, in the fall, lying in the cool (almosot cold) grass and listening to a B-36 droning its way one direction or another, and sometimes seeing the contrails.

    So, OKR, NanaDot, JohnQ, and all of you old enough to recall similar events, for me these are such great memories of a time long gone.

    -- Posted by Slater on Mon, Oct 20, 2008, at 7:31 PM
  • Typesetter: You're absolutely correct that Marshall does not have everything. I shop locally when I can and out of town when I need to, and that's what everyone has to do in a small town. I'm just pointing out that the cost of driving is a good deal more than merely the cost of the gas. Driving anywhere costs at least 50 cents a mile no matter where you go, and that figure itself is probably a little low by now.

    -- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Mon, Oct 20, 2008, at 7:33 PM
  • Typesetter, don't be alarmed. I was just poking fun. We know you think of your hometown first and foremost.

    -- Posted by Slater on Mon, Oct 20, 2008, at 7:36 PM
  • Slater - Travel by rail is one of my earliest memories. When my father was stationed at Andrews Air Force Base, we frequently went "home" to Newark by train. My mother always traveled by train to visit me when I lived in Illinois, and I made it a point to take my daughter on a couple of train trips when she was very young. When I visited my daughter last April, to see my new grandson, I went part of the way by train then, too. It beats the daylights out of driving.

    I can't claim I fell asleep to the drone of a B-36, though. For me and my family, it was B-47s, then B-52s, and for a brief time, SR-71s. Pleasant memories, all of them.

    -- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Mon, Oct 20, 2008, at 7:38 PM
  • Slater mentioned the " Puddle Jumper", the passenger train service on the Chicago-Alton line. My step-grandfather was an engineer as was my uncle. Were the trains also referred to as the "galloping goose"? I remember with great fondness trips to Kansas City and St. Louis each summer with my grandmother and aunt. There were at least two war defense plants in Slater. One made the "sights" for guns. I remember the troop trains going through the town. The windows were open and the men were hanging out the windows hoping for a cool breeze.

    -- Posted by upsedaisy on Mon, Oct 20, 2008, at 9:39 PM
  • In regards to the article about The Living Center: Let me begin by saying it is true 90% of nursing homes receive deficiencies. Some well justified while others are just at the discretion of the surveyors interpretation of the regulations. Let me also say that according to the Nursing Home Compendium 2007 that in 2006 only 15% of nursing homes in Missouri received citations for deficiencies at the actual harm or higher level. Guess who was in that 15%. Refusal of payment to facilities for new Medicare & Medicaid admissions are not as common as Mr.Ott & Ms.Stanley would have you believe. I think we're having a little play on words when Mr.Ott uses the word "terminated" in relation to Medicare funding. You must have extended noncompliance before your Medicare contract is "terminated". Having your contract "terminated" and having Medicare funding withheld for new admissions are two completely different things. When I read the quote "this penalty has no effect on our current existing residents" it reinforced to me that possibly Medicare money is being withheld for new admissions. I think Mr.Ott & Ms.Stanley would both agree (or maybe not) that it takes more than a few documentation issues to make this happen. Anyone who wants to get information on an inspection not yet posted can call 573-522-1516. This will put you in contact with the MO Department of Health & Sr.Services. The number was posted on their web site.

    -- Posted by JustFYI on Mon, Oct 20, 2008, at 10:14 PM
  • Upsedaisy, I never heard any of the trains called the Galloping Goose, but I wouldn't be a bit surprised.

    Early in the 20th Century, Slater was an important hub on the railroad, and a large number of people worked for the railroad. I believe I read once that the population of the city was around 5,000 at its height. Was the ride to St. Louis like the ride to Kansas City, bucking and snorting the entire way? :) For me, that was the best part of the trips.

    I also read that Walter Chrysler lived in Slater for a time while working on the railroad.

    There were two defense plants operating in Slater during the war, but I don't know what was being produced. I do know one was operated by a company called Aerion (sp) Corp. I think maybe they made some sort of radio components.

    I've read recently that rail ridership has increased to some extent since the rise of energy costs. Amtrak used to offer some very nice vacation trips through various scenic areas of the country, but most, if not all, were curtailed during the budget cuts. I'd sure like to see some of those brought back.

    I spent some time in Germany when I was in the service, and the train travel there was terrific! I was on some train going wherever it took me as often as I could manage it. :)

    -- Posted by Slater on Mon, Oct 20, 2008, at 10:25 PM
  • Kathy Fairchild,

    I don't usually respond to blogs such as this, but found your comments regarding 'radical christianity' interesting and had to take the time to respond. A quick look in Webster's dictionary tells me that radical is simply defined as 1. "of or from the root; fundamental; basic. 2. favoring extreme change." Now when we think of radical muslims, we picture the Twin Towers, 9-11, or even a few extremists who are willing to kill and die for their religious beliefs. However, if you'll note the first definition of the word radical, I think this is what truly applies. You see these muslim extremists are going back to the basic fundamentals that are taught at the core of the muslim faith. I don't say this as a brand to all Muslims, just those who are "radical" in their faith. Which brings me to the point of 'radical christianity'. The very basic fundamentals of Christianity can be summed up as this: Jesus said the first and greatest commandment was to "love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind." He goes on to say that the second greatest commandment is to "love thy neighbor as thyself." (I might interject here that our neighbor is anyone with whom we have contact.) When a person loves God with all of their being, they will want to please and obey Him and His word, even though that may not be considered popular or even seem extreme. Certain things that society deems as acceptable are considered unacceptable by God in His Word. This is where the "rubber meets the road"! As a Christian, I will not cave in to the demands of a politically correct society. I will stand for what the Bible teaches. At the same time, I will continue to love people even though we don't agree because Christ commanded it. This is not popular with most and is labeled as extreme or "radical". Christ condemned the sin but not the sinner. That is radical Christianity in its truest form. Many times we think of radical Christians as those who shoot the abortionist or commit some other heinous crime in the name of Jesus Christ. But that is not the basic, fundamental root of Christianity.

    The second definition of the word radical is "favoring extreme change". When a person lets Christ control their life, there is an "extreme change" in that life. It's not natural to "love thy neighbor as thyself". Admit it! We're all about number one in this day and age. But with Christ's help "old things are passed away, behold all things are become new." He makes us into a new and better person.

    So, am I a radical Christian? Yes, I am. Christ made an extreme change in my life. I am trying to live my life by His word which would be the basic, fundamentals, or roots of the Christian faith.

    -- Posted by Missouri gal on Mon, Oct 20, 2008, at 10:41 PM
  • "Slater", I was thrilled to ride the trains no matter how jerky the ride. The soot probably bothered me more. A girly girl! The trips made for very long days--we'd start off before daybreak and return in the wee hours.

    Waiting at night for the return train, we'd sometimes sit in the plaza near the Liberty monument (a World War One memorial ) at KC's Union Station. Years later, my sister-in- law remembered the same experience when she and her little sister would come from Colton CA to visit their Missouri family.

    I think the war plants in Slater were owned by a man named Walker.

    Traveling by train in Europe is a great experience.

    Your reference to Walter Chrysler reminded me that General Motors paid Los Angeles to get rid of their commuter rail lines in favor of GM buses.

    Now GM and Chrysler are talking merger.

    Maybe if oil prices remain high, we will see a resurgence in travel by rail.

    CSX is currently running commercials touting their ability to move freight at a much lower cost than trucks. The wheel goes round or "the more things change, the more they stay the same.."

    -- Posted by upsedaisy on Mon, Oct 20, 2008, at 11:18 PM
  • Slater, thanks for the reminiscence. I remember the Puddle Jumper, if my memory is accurate it was also called the Doodle Bug.

    Does anyone know whether or not Marshall is considering restoring city bus service such as they had in the early nineteen forties? I doubt it as the times are not yet right.

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Oct 20, 2008, at 11:41 PM
  • I applaud Missouri Gal's assessment of "radical christianity." I myself am often thought of as crazy or "too extreme" when I tell people I keep the kosher laws of Leviticus.

    They somehow think it isn't necessary, and that's fine if they don't want to do it themselves, but I feel following the scripture in it's entirety is essential in my walk with God.

    And NanaDot, I wonder if you have the Fox News link where they say anything about Muslims the world over being all about killing and destruction and domination. No such link exists? Didn't think so.

    And just to clarify, Allah and my God are not the same for the simple reason that Jesus is said to be a prophet of Allah, not his son, while of course Jesus is the actual Son of God in my belief. Not trying to make myself seem all uppity or anything, I'm just pointing out that fact.

    -- Posted by "When the Music Plays..." on Tue, Oct 21, 2008, at 10:23 AM
  • Thanks for the conversation, Upsedaisy! It warms my heart to know that others value their memories of like experiences the same way I do.

    You know, I was thinking that maybe the train running to St. Louis was known as the Galloping Goose. Sadly, there may not be anyone still with us who would know about the nicknames.

    OKR, I do recall the Doodle Bug designation, also. I hadn't heard that in a LONG time! :)

    Yes, GM, along with Standard Oil, Phillips Petroleum, and Firestone Rubber Co. got together and did away with the rail lines in Los Angeles so that GM could sell buses to the cities once served by the rail network. I see that Californians will be voting next month on a high-speed rail system connecting San Francisco with points south.

    Am I right in thinking the Liberty Memorial was restored in recent years? It had fallen on hard times during my days of living in Kansas City. One day I'd like to have a look at what's been done with the Union Station, as well as parts of the downtown area. Some wonderful architectural examples were destroyed down there in the name of "progress."

    Have you been to Slater in recent years? I was there in 2006 for a family gathering, and we drove down Main Street - 4pm on a Saturday afternoon - and there was no sign of life at all. Even the City Pharmacy was closed. Amazing!

    I'm thinking seriously of riding the train the next time I go to Missouri. The train leaves San Antonio at 7pm and arrives in St. Louis at 730am, then on to Kansas City at 5pm that day, arriving at 940pm or so. Some would be pretty antsy by the end of that, but the idea appeals to me. At this stage in my life I'm definitely not in any rush! :)

    -- Posted by Slater on Tue, Oct 21, 2008, at 11:00 AM
  • NanaDot, I sort of got the feeling that JohnQ was laying it on a little thick the other day. :)

    I was born four days after Pearl Harbor, at home, because of a storm that had the roads full of snow, so the doctor came to the house for my arrival.

    My daughter and I are doing early voting this Thursday, and I can write you in, unless you'd rather wait until 2012. :)

    -- Posted by Slater on Tue, Oct 21, 2008, at 11:15 AM
  • OKR, I asked my sister about the bus service in Marshall, and she talked about the group of girls she ran around with going to Marshall and catching the bus out to the gym at MVC for Saturday night dances. Apparently there was some sort of pass card needed to get in, and that got me thinking about the place where kids hung out, on the second floor of the building that sat on the northeast corner of the square. I was up there a couple of times, but the reception was just a wee bit chilly. :) Am I right about this, or is this like my memory of the movie houses? heh heh

    I do remember the 65 Drive In and the Valley Drive In.

    By the way, are you the person Craig Gann (Hubbard) believes you to be? After I received the email with his thoughts, I asked him if you had a brother coaching in the NFL, but he didn't answer the question.

    -- Posted by Slater on Tue, Oct 21, 2008, at 11:38 AM
  • Radical Christianity.

    I believe that Sarah Palin is a radical Christian because she supports a constitutional ammendment to ban gay marriage. To me that is "radical" when you support enacting laws that would legally force others to bend to your particular religious slant. It's also very,very scary.

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Oct 21, 2008, at 12:24 PM
  • Nana- you and I will never see eye to eye on this issue. The poorest of the poor in this country will NEVER know what "absolute poverty" is. Even the pennyless & homeless have a shelter to go to to get out of the elements. A soup kitchen to grab a meal. Churches to get free clothes from and emergency rooms who will not refuse them medical care based on their situation. You have NEVER seen imacieated children (or adults) starving on the streets of this country with a shirt and a pair of pants as their only asset while they suffer from easily treatable medical ailments. The people of this great country would never stand for it.

    I do NOT support the bailout. As my children will atest to, I believe the most effective way to learn, is to learn the hard way. I am not afraid of what will happen to our financial industry if we don't buy these bad loans. The mountain of blame for the mess is spread amongst many. Home ownership is not a right. The line of logic you support would say that everyone has an equal right to sit at the other end of a loan origionaters desk and be approved for a home loan. Some of these new home owners were mearly asked a few questions without even showing that they had proper ID. I don't know what it was like when some of you went through the home loan process, but my husband and I had to produce every piece of employment and financial document every printed on us to be approved for a loan.

    As far as inflated prices, these same people who got these joke loans in the first place were willing to sign their name to any dollar amount just to get the opportunity to buy a house. (This is where the blame really starts to fan out). California, one of the most liberal and sympathetic states in the union, had the worst cases of inflated prices.

    Others thought they were being smart buy buying up these sub-prime loans and trying to flip the house for a prophit before their interest rates went up and tripled their payments. The soon found themselves with a worthless pile of lumber because nobody was able to buy it.

    You taking the blame away from these people who accepted the terms of these sub-prime loans and placing is solely on the shoulders of the financial industry is very, very left wing of you and I shake my head in disappointment at your biasness.

    It funny, the moment you mentioned Ben Bernanke, my mind immediatly flased to the C-Span video clip of Obamas financial advisor, Franklin Raines (Dem & former CEO of Fannie Mae) who told us all that buying these homes was "riskless". And to other Democrat such as Author Davis, Lacy Clay, Maxine Waters, Gregory Meeks & Barny Franks who lied and covered up and excused and turned their a blind eye to the problems and upcoming disaster back in '04 while republican congressmen such as Ed Royce, Christopher Shays & Don Manzullo (who points out the outragous bonuses these exectives at Fannie were getting) pleaded and warned Democrats that reform and change needed to happen otherwise taxpayers were eventually going to have to pay a huge price of this reckless behavior.

    Here's the video:


    Quote Bill Clinton:

    "The responsibility that the Democrats have may rest more in resisting any efforts by Republicans in the Congress or by me when I was president to put some standards and tighten up a little on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac."

    -- Posted by MrsAKGrizzly on Tue, Oct 21, 2008, at 12:53 PM
  • KF, you had the opportunity to see various parts of the world, so I believe it would be interesting to know what aspects of life in foreign countries you adjudged superior to same or similar aspects of life in America.

    By the way, as they idle their way overhead toward the bse, sometimes I think C-5 engines sound a lot like the engines on the B-36, but probably not. I only know that some airplanes have a distinctive sound, like the C-135 for instance.

    -- Posted by Slater on Tue, Oct 21, 2008, at 1:00 PM
  • So, while pondering the Christian and racial overtones of this election, the song Blue Tail Fly came to mind:


    -- Posted by Slater on Tue, Oct 21, 2008, at 1:25 PM
  • Slater - Happy to oblige! I spent a bit more than two years in Libya as a child, so it was a very long time ago. Surprisingly, my memories are mostly very clear. At that time, the country was extremely poor and there were beggars in the streets, a lot of them children.

    That long ago, Americans were welcomed in most (though not all) parts of the world. My sister and I and our friends were allowed by our parents to have the run of the city, something I would not do today with my own daughter. Even now, I'm suprised at how free we were to roam around city streets in a foreign country without adult supervision.

    Both British and American troops were stationed at Wheelus Air Field, outside the city, and we had British friends as well as American. We also knew quite few Italian children and played with little difficulty with all of them. There was a language barrier, to some extent, but we learned a little Italian and they learned some English, and all of us who were schooled at the base school were required to learn Arabic, so we all knew some of that language, too - just enough to "get by," as they say.

    All of us could sing the Libyan national anthem, in Arabic, by the way.

    We lived near a mosque, so we could hear the daily calls to prayer, and we were there long enough to know about Ramadan and what it meant as a religious holiday (it lasts a month or so, as I recall, similar to Lent). We observed Arab boys learning the Koran, which they did by sitting in rows in the open air courtyard of the mosque, repeating the verses endlessly.

    I was aware they were different in that way (I was raised Catholic), but it didn't seem to make any difference that was discernible to children, at least, in the way we interacted with them.

    Some women, though not all, in the streets were veiled, which I thought was unusual and different - maybe a little bit mysterious - but, again, I noticed no difference in the way we were treated.

    I've explored the city virtually in recent years, and have found pictures of the city as it was when I was there and today, and it has changed a great deal. The cathedral where we attended Mass has been renovated and made into a mosque, but I can still see the old church in the structure.

    Since Khadaffi's overthrow of King Indris II, son of the king in power when we were there, the people are certainly more prosperous - oil money has done a lot of that, and it was sorely needed. For that alone, I can understand the people's allegiance to Khadaffi, although I certainly don't condone his other actions.

    In sum, I would have to say that our experience there was very positive and a wonderful learning experience for my sister and me. We left at a good time - the situation in the Middle East took a turn for the worse shortly after we left.

    I know people like to say that people the world over are the same, but I don't think that's true on a national level. I think we have made ourselves unwelcome in many parts of the world by our constant meddling in their affairs. Although in my travels I have been, as an individual, treated well, I do understand that is not always the case. I also know it is possible to like and admire an individual person, but hate what their country stands for, or what we THINK their country stands for. And that's on both sides of the question - as true for Americans as for people from other countries.

    -- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, Oct 21, 2008, at 1:38 PM
  • Mrs. Grizzly, we had the same experience 16 years ago when we applied for a loan to build this house. We produced everything, short of the kitchen sink. Perhaps if the truth had been a part of the qualification process for subprime applicants, not so many would have chosen to proceed.

    You know it's too late to blame anybody, since it's already happened. All we can do now is form a cooperative spirit, move forward together, and deal with the crooks once things level off.

    Get out your favorite Christmas tree ornaments and focus on them for a bit and keep one thing in mind - the Democrats will embrace you just the same as they will everyone else, and you won't be any worse off for it.

    -- Posted by Slater on Tue, Oct 21, 2008, at 1:51 PM
  • I certinly hope Slater.

    For the reccord, I do not blame on either political party for this financial mess. There are clearly members of both parties involved that need to have a finger shaken at. But when I'm met with a statement like, "Ben Bernanke was the head of GOLDMAN-SACHS, HELLOOOOOO...", I feel I must speak up.

    -- Posted by MrsAKGrizzly on Tue, Oct 21, 2008, at 2:25 PM
  • Thanks, KF. I always felt that Americans should take advantage of the opportunities to learn as much as possible about their hosts.

    It's been a long time for me, as well - early 60s, so I know things have changed considerably. Although I didn't know enough of the language to communicate effectively, I discovered that in every group there seemed to always be one or two English-speaking people (Germany,I'm meaning), and a dialogue was maintained through those individuals. As you expressed, the anecdotal contact wasn't necessarily representative of the national feeling. One interesting realization for me was the number of people who still believed in the Hitlerian philosophy.

    A few weeks ago on the PBS program Now, I listened to a Pakistani woman talking about her interview with the former head of that country (her documentary is supposed to be aired next month, I believe), and she voiced what you said about "meddling America" and its brand of democracy. Her feeling is that Pakistan needs to grow its own brand of democracy and America should keep its nose out. I mean, it's a logical way to think, and I never understood why any American leader would think that what we have here is a perfect replacement for any country.

    The only people I found unapproachable were the French - rude and proud of it. :)

    -- Posted by Slater on Tue, Oct 21, 2008, at 3:00 PM
  • Slater: I've always felt that the United States is a very, very lucky country.

    Here's a short list of how lucky we are:

    We are geographically situated on the planet in such a way that we have an enormous capability to grow a variety of crops - more than we need to feed ourselves.

    We have an abundance of natural resources.

    We have a tremendous mix of well-educated, talented people to draw from when we need to solve problems or invent new things.

    We have enough land, and then some, to support everyone here.

    There's no mystery involved in how our country was able to establish and maintain a democracy under these circumstances. In fact, I will go further and say that no matter what form of government evolved in our history, we would still have been successful, given our luck in our location and its advantages.

    But what has worked for us may not be the ideal situation for everyone else - what has gotten us into trouble over and over again is our insistence that ours is the ONLY way.

    It isn't.

    It's my firm belief that when we stop trying to force our philosophy, our way of life and our ideas about how things should be on every other country in the world, we will be even more successful.

    -- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, Oct 21, 2008, at 3:32 PM
  • Hey Folks

    A comment related to the way the world is outside of the US.

    Not long after the former Soviet Union fell apart I had the good fortune to be working with pastors in Ukraine, Russia, and the Baltic States.

    There were many people we met there who were very upset about the collapse of the Soviet Union and the failing of their communist society. One person described it this way:

    "It's as if both of our parents were killed in an automobile accident. We are all like orphans who have no one to turn to. We are alone and lost." And they were not talking about being spiritually lost.

    Some of us were surprised to hear that. Obviously - for them, the American way was not the best way.

    -- Posted by circuitrider on Tue, Oct 21, 2008, at 3:52 PM
  • Well, with the formal election date just two weeks off, I'm disappointed that the Vegetarian Party wasn't able to formulate a viable structure capable of supporting its presidential candidate.

    Maybe next time.

    -- Posted by Slater on Tue, Oct 21, 2008, at 4:09 PM
  • Could we have at least some attempt at journalism in regard to the Hospital/TLC inspection failure? Did KF ask for a list of the deficiencies? Why not include them in the story instead of allowing the director of the department involved to be vague and dismissive about the issue? Is KF a hospital employee and is that a conflict of interest if she is? Her e-mail name seems curious to me. Specifically what is the misinformation. I would like the misinformation defined so that I may know where I would be incorrect on this issue.

    -- Posted by capitalistchick on Tue, Oct 21, 2008, at 4:14 PM
    Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
    Kathy is not a hospital employee. The email address she uses was assigned to her and refers to a beat assignment on the paper, not to any relationship with the hospital.

    We're still working on gathering more information.

  • You want to hear something very cool???

    The Ohio State School for the Blind marching band will be in the 2010 Rose Parade.

    -- Posted by Slater on Tue, Oct 21, 2008, at 4:38 PM
  • Slater,

    Yes, the Teenage Club was on the second floor of a building on the northeast side of the square. I think it was there on and off for years. My older sister went there some in the late 70s or early 80s. My parents didn't like the place much and so it was not some place we were allowed to frequent often. I think in that time it may have been run by the Eagles Club?? I remember being there a time or two but if I was a teenager I must not have been one for every long when I went. I remember they had a large room where you could dance, another room with a pool table, darts, and other games. One of the other places I remember hanging out as a teenager was the arcade that was on Odell Street in a little building next to the Doughnut Shop. (Another place my parents didn't approve of much!) The building is not even there anymore. Of course, one of our favorite places to be on a Friday (or Saturday) night was the roller skating rink owned by Johnny Williams off of Vest Street just down from the Marshall Inn. The building is still there. Every time I drive by it I get a little nostalgic.

    -- Posted by Typesetter on Tue, Oct 21, 2008, at 4:44 PM
  • I remember Johnny's! Wow, haven't thought of that place in a second. Wooden floors if my memory serves me. My brothers and I would go all the time. We loved it!

    -- Posted by Green Eyes on Tue, Oct 21, 2008, at 4:54 PM
  • capitalistchick: We asked the hospital for comment on accusations you made and reported their reply. I'm sorry you chose to attack my ethics and my journalistic capabilities in such a public way, when a phone call might have served your purpose better. As Eric said, my email address at the newspaper has nothing to do with my job there. If you would like to be more specific with your charges, please feel free to contact me at that address and provide more specific information.

    -- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, Oct 21, 2008, at 4:59 PM
  • Typesetter, that was the place, one big room for dancing and another with a pool table and other stuff. I didn't venture in there very often, since most of the guys seemed more than obliging to toss me out a window. :)

    I have no knowledge of the arcade, but when I was in high school there was a roller rink down off Lafayette St. (I think), in the general area of where Stampers was located. If I'm wrong about this I know OKR will straighten me out. :)

    For people in Slater, it was normal to head to Marshall to get things that weren't available there. When I was young, my feet were so narrow that I had to get shoes by special order from the Florsheim store there in Marshall, and I always enjoyed shopping at Rose & Buckner. By the way, do you know if Ken Lusby is still living?

    My memory may be failing me on this one too, but it seems like there used to be a gun shop across to the south from the JC Penney store. I was sorely tempted to buy a replica of the Winchester model 1873 rifle the guy had there, but he wouldn't budge on his asking price. I finally got over my interest in guns, but I think I may have passed it to my son, who has a big pile of them.

    -- Posted by Slater on Tue, Oct 21, 2008, at 5:04 PM
  • What the f.....,

    What is wrong with banning gay marriage? Don't necessarily believe that everyone in the USA supports this just because some think the time is right! Marriage is "one man, one woman"! That is stated in the Bible. I don't believe in equal marriage rights for gay couples. This is just like "life begins at conception", which it does! Why should I have to support someone else's "radical belief", such as Obama who could not even tell us earlier "when life begins"! Sarah Palin is not that far from most pro life protestants and evangelicals. If I would have found out that my baby had Down's Syndrome, I probably would have had that baby too! And teenagers get pregnant everyday! Families deal with these problems through prayer and family love! You seem to be the one who does not want to bend your ways. When was the last time that you attended church? Our government and constitution were founded on Christian morals and principles!

    It is not radical to believe and practice the principle's of biblical teachings which we were all raised with at some time in our lives. I bet that your parents, grandparents or great grandparents went to church somewhere! Where did you lose your way? It is not to late to find your way again!

    -- Posted by farmer'sgranddaughter on Tue, Oct 21, 2008, at 5:38 PM
  • Farmer'sgranddaughter,

    -Did the Bible teach you to be a bigot? It shouldn't have.

    -How does gay marriage affect your life? It doesn't.

    -As for life beginning at conception, try opening a science book.

    -- Posted by klop on Tue, Oct 21, 2008, at 6:22 PM
  • Without taking a position on the touchy subject of gay marriage, I have this to offer from the Bible:

    When Jesus was asked what the most important commandments were, he said (I'm paraphrasing), "First, love God above all else; second, love your neighbor as yourself."

    I think that's pretty good advice, and it has nothing to do with what your neighbors are doing when you can't see them, gay or straight.

    -- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, Oct 21, 2008, at 6:26 PM
  • Now I'm confused!@#? Is Kathy, or is she not, a hospital employee? Eric says no but what Kathy wrote suggests she is, unless I'm just reading it wrong. Just a straight yes or no would do. And if you're wondering...Yes it makes a HUGE difference.

    -- Posted by JustFYI on Tue, Oct 21, 2008, at 6:42 PM
    Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
    No. She is not an employee of Fitzgibbon Hospital. She is an employee of The Marshall Democrat-News.
  • No, to my knowledge, Kathy is not a hospital employee. She is employed by Democrat News.

    -- Posted by missy08 on Tue, Oct 21, 2008, at 7:03 PM
  • Missy, what do we have in common today?

    -- Posted by Slater on Tue, Oct 21, 2008, at 7:10 PM
  • Green Eyes,

    Your memory serves you correctly...wood floors!! When I was a little older and taking my son to Hot Wheels it was harder to skate on the urethane floors there because you didn't slide as well. Skating at Johnny's is what my Mom used against me if I didn't behave during the week. I'd better straighten up or I would not be going skating on Friday! I was grounded one time for 3 weeks...I was so heartbroken about not getting to go skating I know I was probably impossible to live with, but my mom lived through it!

    -- Posted by Typesetter on Tue, Oct 21, 2008, at 7:11 PM
  • I have read your posts today and I believe you might be a bit older than me so we can rule age out. So, I am going waaaay out on a limb and guessing.....

    Autumn has arrived in Marshall. The wind is blowing, the leaves are falling, and rain is approaching. I bet you like the feel of the air when the season is changing -- the smells of fall, and the spooky darkness of an October evening.

    Am I right?

    -- Posted by missy08 on Tue, Oct 21, 2008, at 7:17 PM
  • Partly right. I do like the fall the best, when the air begins to get crispy.

    -- Posted by Slater on Tue, Oct 21, 2008, at 7:39 PM
  • See? If we try real hard, we can agree on some things. How about ice cream? I don't like sand and saltwater but I love to hear the ocean.

    -- Posted by missy08 on Tue, Oct 21, 2008, at 7:43 PM
  • Ice cream is good - plain vanilla, no exotic flavors and ingredients.

    I don't like being near the ocean, unless I'm indoors - don't like the wind. The last time we were in CA we drove along the coastal highway from Monterrey back to San Francisco - lovely views!

    -- Posted by Slater on Tue, Oct 21, 2008, at 7:48 PM
  • Aha! See? We have a lot in common. I don't like the wind either. I do like a little chocolate dumped on my ice cream.

    I'm of the "early to bed, early to rise" type. So, I'm signing off for the night.

    Sweet dreams to you and I look forward to tomorrow.

    -- Posted by missy08 on Tue, Oct 21, 2008, at 7:52 PM
  • Sleep tight

    -- Posted by Slater on Tue, Oct 21, 2008, at 7:53 PM
  • capitalistchick and JustFYI: I'm not sure why there is any confusion as to where I work. My employer, as Eric has said twice, is The Marshall Democrat-News, not the hospital. I've had a byline here for well over a year and have written on many subjects, including the hospital. My email address in that time has always been the same and is attached, with a few exceptions when there wasn't space for it, to the end of every story.

    -- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, Oct 21, 2008, at 8:30 PM
  • I used to ride on the "Puddle Jumper" when I was growing up, sometimes to Marshall, sometimes to Kansas City. It brought the mail to our town every day. As a young man I worked on that railroad, then it was called the GM&O (Gulf Mobile and Ohio). My dad worked for many years on that railroad.

    For some reason it always brought comfort to me when I would hear the freight trains coming through town every night, maybe because I connected it to my dad.

    I dug the following information up off the internet; I can't verify its correctness:

    GM&O engines and passenger cars were featured in the 1967 film In the Heat of the Night. Although the film's opening and ending shots of the GM&O are implied to be in Mississippi, where the film's fictional small town Sparta is located, GM&O had ceased all passenger service south of St. Louis, MO eight years before the film was made. The fictional Mississippi town in the T.V. series is actually in Georgia. And the city where the GM&O engines and cars were filmed was actually Alton IL.

    -- Posted by Billfromraytown on Tue, Oct 21, 2008, at 9:15 PM
  • Well Kathy, now that the bad guys know how this works the next time they will just drive on through the phony (ruse) check point. I'm sure the bad guys are very grateful to YOU for revealing this information in your article!

    "Leon N. Stanley, 25, of College Park, Ga., was sentenced Monday, Oct. 20, to 10 years in Missouri Department of Corrections by Judge Michael Midyett in Saline County Circuit Court.

    Stanley pleaded guilty to the class B felony charge of possession of a controlled substance with intent to distribute.

    Stanley was picked up by Missouri State Highway Patrol Cpl. R.B. McGinnis during a "ruse" drug checkpoint operation on Saturday, Dec. 29, 2007.

    The drug checkpoint was set up along Interstate 70 in Lafayette County, with officers stationed at the interstate exit for County Road EE in Saline County. That particular exit was selected because "there are no restaurants, gas stations or other services for the motoring public at or near the exit," according to the probable cause statement issued by the Highway Patrol."

    -- Posted by Billfromraytown on Tue, Oct 21, 2008, at 9:31 PM
  • Kathy, My question was not if you worked at the newspaper. My question was if you worked at the hospital. Some people do have 2 jobs. I think we all are aware that you work at the newspaper but thank you for pointing that out.

    -- Posted by JustFYI on Tue, Oct 21, 2008, at 9:47 PM
  • I keep hearing Palin refer to small town residents as real Americans. So, is she implying that people from larger cities are not real Americans. According Palin's logic, the victims of 9/11 and the heroic NY firefighters would not qualify as patriots.

    It's incredible that McCain/Palin are still in this presidential race. It shows how misguided small town voters really are. Instead of focusing on health care,the economy, education and other key issues; small town residents, Midwesterners in particular,like to focus on garbage like the 2nd amendment.

    I'm so sick of the Republicans and their so called morality, but the sale pitch works. McCain/Palin may just suck in enough idiots to win. They'll continue to avoid issues and cater to a base that still believes Obama is a Muslim with terrorist connections.

    -- Posted by klop on Tue, Oct 21, 2008, at 9:48 PM
  • BillfromRaytown: This technique is no secret to drug traffickers. Here's an article from 2004 that discusses its use and its legality:


    -- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, Oct 21, 2008, at 9:49 PM
  • Kathy, doesn't your shift at the hospital start soon?

    -- Posted by klop on Tue, Oct 21, 2008, at 10:06 PM
  • Raytown Bill, I'd guess your information is pretty accurate re the movie. I was trying to remember when the GM&O merged with the Ill. Central to form the Ill. Central Gulf, and I'm thinking that occurred in the early 70s.

    The trains running through Slater, in order of name were the Chicago & Alton, GM&O, ICG (not certain about this one), Gateway Transp., and currently I believe Upsedaisy said it's the CSX.

    I spent 6 years (69-75) working for the Santa Fe (AT&SF) which is now merged with the Burlington Northern. I discovered by looking at photos in a railway newsgroup on the Internet that a number of mergers have occurred since I left the Santa Fe. Some, like the CSX, are new to me.

    -- Posted by Slater on Tue, Oct 21, 2008, at 10:19 PM
  • "Kathy, doesn't your shift at the hospital start soon?"

    Let this be a lesson to all of us. Don't drink and blog.

    -- Posted by MrsAKGrizzly on Tue, Oct 21, 2008, at 10:23 PM
  • It was a JOKE.....

    -- Posted by klop on Tue, Oct 21, 2008, at 10:25 PM
  • But if you want an interesting read, check out my post about recent air-headed comments by Palin

    -- Posted by klop on Tue, Oct 21, 2008, at 10:28 PM
  • American History, 1958

    During a lecture on James Polk, my friend next to me asked how the name was spelled, so I told him. Mrs. Branble (what an appropriate name she had) gave us the boot, and the principal used chalk to mark off two boxes against the wall in the hallway, and we stood in those boxes for a week during school hours. At the end of the week he asked what we'd done to be sent to the office.

    If the principal had worn a little mustache, he'd have been given a new name.

    -- Posted by Slater on Tue, Oct 21, 2008, at 10:39 PM
  • I mentioned this only because of klop's screen name.

    -- Posted by Slater on Tue, Oct 21, 2008, at 10:41 PM
  • KF, a C-5 just floated by, I think with a student pilot - throttle up, throttle back... :)

    -- Posted by Slater on Tue, Oct 21, 2008, at 10:47 PM
  • Slater, I agree that the "Teen Age Club" was clique filled in the late 50s. I didn't care for it myself. I am the person Craig mentioned. Distant kin at best to the NFL coach. However, my brothers and I all did play football with varying degrees of success. My brothers were coaches at times, heck I even coached little league a long time ago. Our third generation is now playing. I still love the stupid game. It is a joy to chuck the football around with my grandson.

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Oct 22, 2008, at 12:03 AM
  • Klop


    Better now?

    Of course, I am still looking for the article where Obama says that "spread the wealth around" wasn't what he intended to say..... And, that he is re-thinking his "plan".

    And, maybe that he really does have a friend named Bill and he is sorry that he tried to decceive the good citizens of this country....

    -- Posted by missy08 on Wed, Oct 22, 2008, at 5:43 AM
  • farmer'sgranddaughter,

    You said: "I don't believe in equal marriage rights for gay couples."

    Fine. No one is asking you to believe in it or support it. That is not the point. The point is that you support ammending the Constitution of the United States of America based on YOUR religious beliefs in order to define another individuals "pursuit of happiness"? Is that what our troops are dying for? BTW there are gay soldiers and Christians.

    You cite the Bible and your Christian beliefs which is well and good for the way you choose to live YOUR LIFE!

    The bible says alot of things that aren't taken literally, maybe you need to read it again.

    Yes, I was raised in a religious family and they are still very religious. You asked when I lost my way? That depends. Once I was old enough to understand the ramifications of the mindset of folks just like you then organized religion was no longer for me.

    When I lay my head down I nite I do so with a clear conscience and I would also argue that I am more of a Chrisian then you will ever be.

    I don't use the Bible as a club nor do I claim superior morality over my neighbor.

    "Judge not,lest ye be judged". God doesn't need your help in the judgement department and for you to think otherwise not only shows your arrogance but it really highlights your ignorance.

    Over the years I've come to find that those who use the bible as a weapon aren't more righteous then anyone else, they are just more insecure.

    You know what I like about the gay people that I know? They don't judge me and that is good enough for me.

    Christianity is a chosen lifestyle wheter or not you choose believe it and not everyone agrees with it. How would you feel about a constituional ammendment to ban Christianity?

    Maybe it's time for you to re-examine your lifestyle instead of concentrating on others because to be brutally honest, if heaven is full of people like you, then what is the payoff?

    One more thing that bears repeating. Obama is NOT going to take your guns and give them to married gays couples to perform abortions with.

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Oct 22, 2008, at 6:55 AM
  • What the f......

    Do you have a clue what your talking about regarding the Military. As a soldier myself I can honestly say that I have not encountered a gay/lesbian soldier. We have a policy that Clinton established "don't ask, don't tell" policy. The military is very good about recognizing religion and every soldiers special needs. The US Military is at war it Terrorism, yes the Constution plays a part but who cares when you have haji shooting at you. Every soldiers bible is the ROE or Rules of Engagement, no matter if your straight, gay/les, swinger, or morman, were all fighting the same war. Obama is going to try and down size the military, The service is already hurting for soldiers. I wonder if you will cry the same story when Obama get's his hands on the military and weakens our defense to allow another terrorist attack...

    -- Posted by para-chic on Wed, Oct 22, 2008, at 8:47 AM
  • Hey with all the accidents going on it seems to me that you all forgot one that happened to my cousin Cathy Bullard on Monday after-noon or early evening when she was riding her bike and was hit by a vehicle. I find that its bull that this story be left out because she was injured, only minor injuries, but still she is quite sore, and has quite a few bruises. I think that if you wanna report on accidents don't forget the 16 year old girl hit while riding her bike. Thank you...I'm just glad she is ok

    -- Posted by justthink on Wed, Oct 22, 2008, at 9:09 AM
  • Para chic,

    There are gays in every walk of life. In or out wheter you know it or want to know it is another matter. The rest of your post made no sense at all regard my earlier post.

    Smokin' Cheetah,

    I disagree. The way one chooses to live thier life is a lifestyle be it gay or Christian or a gay Christian. Thanks for your comments though.

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Oct 22, 2008, at 9:17 AM
  • On the Second Amendment, Don't Believe Obama

    The presidential election is finally upon us, and it is now time for gun owners to take a careful look at just where nominee Barack Obama stands on issues related to the Second Amendment. During the primaries, Obama tried to hide behind vague statements of support for "sportsmen" or unfounded claims of general support for the right to keep and bear arms.

    But his real record, based on votes taken, political associations, and long standing positions, shows that Barack Obama is a serious threat to Second Amendment liberties. Don't listen to his campaign rhetoric! Look instead to what he has said and done during his entire political career.

    FACT: Barack Obama opposes four of the five Supreme Court justices who affirmed an individual right to keep and bear arms. He voted against the confirmation of Alito and Roberts and he has stated he would not have appointed Thomas or Scalia.17

    FACT: Barack Obama voted for an Illinois State Senate bill to ban and confiscate "assault weapons," but the bill was so poorly crafted, it would have also banned most semi-auto and single and double barrel shotguns commonly used by sportsmen.18

    FACT: Barack Obama voted to allow reckless lawsuits designed to bankrupt the firearms industry.1

    FACT: Barack Obama wants to re-impose the failed and discredited Clinton Gun Ban.15

    FACT: Barack Obama voted to ban almost all rifle ammunition commonly used for hunting and sport shooting.3

    FACT: Barack Obama has endorsed a 500% increase in the federal excise tax on firearms and ammunition.9

    FACT: Barack Obama has endorsed a complete ban on handgun ownership.2

    FACT: Barack Obama supports local gun bans in Chicago, Washington, D.C., and other cities.4

    FACT: Barack Obama voted to uphold local gun bans and the criminal prosecution of people who use firearms in self-defense.5

    FACT: Barack Obama supports gun owner licensing and gun registration.6

    FACT: Barack Obama refused to sign a friend-of-the-court Brief in support of individual Second Amendment rights in the Heller case.

    FACT: Barack Obama opposes Right to Carry laws.7

    FACT: Barack Obama was a member of the Board of Directors of the Joyce Foundation, the leading source of funds for anti-gun organizations and "research."8

    FACT: Barack Obama supported a proposal to ban gun stores within 5 miles of a school or park, which would eliminate almost every gun store in America.9

    FACT: Barack Obama voted not to notify gun owners when the state of Illinois did records searches on them.10

    FACT: Barack Obama voted against a measure to lower the Firearms Owners Identification card age minimum from 21 to 18, a measure designed to assist young people in the military.11

    FACT: Barack Obama favors a ban on standard capacity magazines.12

    FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory micro-stamping.13

    FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory waiting periods.2

    FACT: Barack Obama supports repeal of the Tiahrt Amendment, which prohibits information on gun traces collected by the BATFE from being used in reckless lawsuits against firearm dealers and manufacturers.14

    FACT: Barack Obama supports one-gun-a-month handgun purchase restrictions.16

    FACT: Barack Obama supports a ban on inexpensive handguns.9

    FACT: Barack Obama supports a ban on the resale of police issued firearms, even if the money is going to police departments for replacement equipment.9

    FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory firearm training requirements for all gun owners and a ban on gun ownership for persons under the age of 21.9

    1. United States Senate, S. 397, vote number 219, July 29, 2005. http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?con...

    2. Independent Voters of Illinois/Independent Precinct Organization general candidate questionnaire, Sept. 9, 1996. The responses on this survey were described in "Obama had greater role on liberal survey," Politico, March 31, 2008. http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0308/9269.html

    3. United States Senate, S. 397, vote number 217, Kennedy amendment July 29, 2005. http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?con...

    4. David Wright, Ursula Fahy and Sunlen Miller, "Obama: 'Common Sense Regulation' On Gun Owners' Rights," ABC News' "Political Radar" Blog, http://blogs.abcnews.com, 2/15/08. http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/02/obama-common-se.html

    5. Illinois Senate, SB 2165, March 25, 2004, vote 20 and May 25, 2004, vote 3.

    6. "Fact Check: No News In Obama's Consistent Record." Obama '08, December 11, 2007. http://www.barackobama.com/factcheck/2007/12/11/fact_check_no_news_in_obamas_c.p...

    7. "Candidates' gun control positions may figure in Pa. vote," Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, Wednesday, April 2, 2008, and "Keyes, Obama Are Far Apart On Guns," Chicago Tribune, 9/15/04. http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/s_560181.html

    8. 1998 Joyce Foundation Annual Report, p. 7.

    9. "Obama and Gun Control," The Volokh Conspiracy, taken from the Chicago Defender, Dec. 13, 1999. http://www.volokh.com/posts/1203389334.shtml

    10. Illinois Senate, May 5, 2002, SB 1936 Con., vote 26.

    11. Illinois Senate, March 25, 2003, SB 2163, vote 18.

    12. "Clinton, Edwards, Obama on gun control," Radio Iowa, Sunday, April 22, 2007. http://learfield.typepad.com/radioiowa/2007/04/clinton_edwards.html

    13. Chicago Tribune blogs, "Barack Obama: NIU Shootings call for action," February 15, 2008, http://blogs.trb.com/news/politics/blog/2008/02/barack_obama_comments_on_shoot.h...

    14. Barack Obama campaign website: "As president, Barack Obama would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment . . ." http://www.barackobama.com/issues/urbanpolicy/#crime-and-law-enforcement.

    15. Illinois Senate Debate #3: Barack Obama vs. Alan Keyes http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Barack_Obama_Gun_Control.htm and http://www.ontheissues.org/IL_2004_Senate_3rd.htm Oct 21, 2004.

    16. Illinois Senate, May 16, 2003, HB 2579, vote

    17. United States Senate vote 245, September 29, 2005 and vote 2, January 31, 2006 and Saddleback Forum, August 16, 2008.

    18. Illinois Senate Judiciary Committee, March 13, 2003. To see the vote tally go to: http://www.nrapvf.org/Media/pdf/sb1195_obama.pdf.

    -- Posted by Gal66 on Wed, Oct 22, 2008, at 10:25 AM
  • Thank you gal66. I posted earlier on that organization that is endorsing Obama -- Hunters and Shooters. Ha!

    Personally, I am still hung up on "spreading the wealth"............... Just can't get beyond that.

    Have a great day!

    -- Posted by missy08 on Wed, Oct 22, 2008, at 10:46 AM
  • Nice post on Obama & guns.........or should I say you did a good job copying & pasting the article from the NRA web site. http://www.gunbanobama.com/Default.aspx?NavGuid=530ecfa4-ae4e-4819-97e6-892463d9...

    I have listened to this garbage since 1976; how many legal guns have been taken from citizens in the past 30+ years? People I have talked to are growing tired of the NRA's tactics, misleading information and are starting to recognize it for what it is; fear & smear to try and scare folks to vote a certain way. It is not going to work. Not this year, not in this election.

    -- Posted by modemocrat on Wed, Oct 22, 2008, at 10:56 AM
  • I'm not sorry if I've hit some nerves. I find it annoying that the local hospital does not feel that it has to answer to the public it serves. I find it weird that the Nursing home is not claimed as part of the hospital, yet seems very much like a department of the hospital, and is physically attached to it! The community is investing heavily in this hospital. It is reasonable to expect the Hospital and Ott to answer to everyone about these issues. I have higher expectations of a Nursing home that has access to an entire hospital full of Nurses and Doctors and ancillary support departments; yet it falls into the 15% of homes that have patient harm deficiencies?! Why? I've not been impressed with how TLC has been run, and I want to see the management take responsibility and fix it. This is not about me!

    -- Posted by capitalistchick on Wed, Oct 22, 2008, at 11:17 AM
  • Cheetah, precisely my sentiment, also, regarding the religious "noisemakers." The louder they become, the more I tend to question their sincerity.

    -- Posted by Slater on Wed, Oct 22, 2008, at 11:57 AM
  • WTF

    "To those of who are hysterical about the 2nd ammendment."

    I for one am not hysterical about the 2nd ammendent I am just trying to get the facts out on Obama's record.


    I do not agree with the things that have been done under the flag of Home security.

    And I support the rights of everyone!

    Even yours to freedom of speech

    -- Posted by Gal66 on Wed, Oct 22, 2008, at 11:59 AM
  • -- Posted by Slater on Wed, Oct 22, 2008, at 12:01 PM
  • Yes modemocrat I did cut and paste from the NRA website.

    It had the information I wanted.

    Do you have a problem with that?

    -- Posted by Gal66 on Wed, Oct 22, 2008, at 12:02 PM
    Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
    It's a good idea to include reference to the source of information, including a link, if possible.
  • :) Does anyone know if the shipment of boxing gloves has arrived?

    -- Posted by Slater on Wed, Oct 22, 2008, at 12:05 PM
  • Slater,

    Mmmmm. Thank you.

    -- Posted by missy08 on Wed, Oct 22, 2008, at 12:09 PM
  • You're most welcome. :)

    -- Posted by Slater on Wed, Oct 22, 2008, at 12:13 PM
  • Missy, yesterday you mentioned the falling leaves, and that reminded me of how much I enjoyed walking in the leaves, and the smell of them burning. I suppose burning is now against the rules? It would be here if we had trees that produced leaves worth burning.

    Your comment about dark nights also brought back a memory of the times we played Chalk the Corner. Do you know that game? It's best when the trees are full of leaves (like late summer), casting shadows around the street lights.

    -- Posted by Slater on Wed, Oct 22, 2008, at 12:31 PM
  • Occasionally, I can catch the faint fragrance of burning leaves -- don't know if it is coming from "the country" or if someone is daring the police.... In high school, we would have the fall "slave day" (probably not pc now-a-days) and our biggest money maker was raking and burning leaves.

    Never heard of "chalk the corner". Our evenings were spent playing tag and hide-and-seek.

    Today is dreary, misty, rainy. Windy and pretty darn chilly. I keep hearing that we have the possibility of snow flurries later this week. Puts me in the mood for a nice crackling fire in the fireplace....

    -- Posted by missy08 on Wed, Oct 22, 2008, at 12:42 PM
  • YIKES!!! Snow already, maybe?

    Mmmmm, a nice fire and a steaming cup of hot chocolate made with Mexican chocolate!!

    Well, chalk the corner is much like hide and seek, except it's played out over a several-block area. The group is divided in half - one bunch is "it" and the other goes to hide, taking a block or two lead before being followed by the second group. A piece of chalk is used to mark directions (arrows) at each corner (hence the name). When the first bunch decides to hide, arrows are drawn pointing in all four directions. It was a fun game, especially when there was an equal mix of girls along. :)

    -- Posted by Slater on Wed, Oct 22, 2008, at 1:00 PM
  • Last evening, I received a phone call asking me to take a brief survey. I was asked who I planned to vote for for president and governor, what party I typically voted for, whether I was pro-choice or pro-life, and what my stance was on conceal and carry. At the end of the conversation, the person calling said they were a volunteer with the Mo Republican Party. Well, today I've received several recorded phone calls trying to convince me that my opinions are wrong. If you get such a call to participate in a survey, I'd advise you not to answer their questions. You'll get no rest the next day!

    -- Posted by oneofmany on Wed, Oct 22, 2008, at 1:03 PM

    -- Posted by 1OFTHEGALS on Wed, Oct 22, 2008, at 1:08 PM
  • WTF,

    Before you judge what kind of Christian I am, you had better examine yourself and decide exactly why organized religion wasn't for you! Actually, your user name on this forum says it all!

    Were you too perfect in the mirror to sit in church and Bible class? I am a sinner just like everyone else! I try to live a God fearing life. I believe that Jesus died for sinners like me. When people sin against me, I have a forgiving and kind heart. And I repent for my sins daily.

    Remember the Fruits of the Spirit - love, joy, peace, patience, goodness, kindness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control.

    You should read Galations Chapter 5 and 6.

    You will have to answer for what ever lifestyle or beliefs you may have. Which leads me to this, judge not, lest you be judged, remember? You may never know what kind of people are in heaven!

    Religion doesn't teach legal or illegal, constitutional or unconstitutional. It teaches right and wrong. You have forgotten much!

    I'll keep you and everyone else on this forum who doesn't need religion in their lives in my prayers!

    -- Posted by farmer'sgranddaughter on Wed, Oct 22, 2008, at 1:27 PM
  • I wanted to post this here to rouse some draw attention to the article on Slater's school board meeting.

    McEachern's statement "we must be good stewards of the school's money" concerning the lunches bothers me immensely. Being a good steward of the schools money means making school a safe haven, and a place that children can get something to eat without ridicule-- school may be their only hot meal of the day. Some parents have applied for free or reduced lunches and do not qualify, because those standards do not rise as fast as inflation-- many parents are struggling to keep the lights on and gas in the car to continue to work-- so I wonder if a Slater parent made it known that they are having trouble with paying their account-and they do not qualify for conventional help-- what would be done-- would the children continue to be served just the basic minimum---the ULITMATE concern should be the well being of the child here-- that is how the money of the district would be best put to use. Where is your heart-- can you imagine a child who's parents couldn't afford to pay their account and couldn't afford to buy the food to pack a lunch because the car blew up and the money had to go to transportation-- walking to the lunch counter, tummy tied in knots due to embarrassement, head held down hoping no one would say anything to him or notice he has to get peanut butter and jelly, and going to sit at a table where all the other kids are enjoying a warm filling meal---I would rather the schools money be spent on filling this child's tummy with good warm food than buying anything else-- it's not his fault his parents did not/could not pay---Is your heart so cold my Mr. Mcearchern as to not feel sympathy for this child-- how is that being a good steward of the school's money

    -- Posted by workingmom on Wed, Oct 22, 2008, at 1:39 PM
  • This is NOT the place to discuss religion.

    -- Posted by tommob on Wed, Oct 22, 2008, at 1:40 PM
    Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
    Religion is difficult to discuss, of course, but the subject is not off limits. We only ask that everyone express their views and beliefs without resorting to attacks on other people and their beliefs.
  • The "rules of the board" are posted and it says "any" issue.

    Until/unless Eric changes that......

    -- Posted by missy08 on Wed, Oct 22, 2008, at 1:53 PM
  • Here is some information on nursing home inspections that was not mentioned previously and hopefully this will answer some questions. When you have an inspection and the surveyors find something wrong, which is very common because nobody's perfect, they give you a citation referred to as a deficiency. The home is required to submit what is called a Plan of Correction to the Dept. of Health & Sr. Services (DHSS). DHSS is then required to make a revisit to make sure you corrected the problems. If you haven't corrected the problems then at that point they deny your Medicare/Medicaid payment for new admissions. This is not so common. They then give you the opportunity to correct the problems again. On the second revisit, if problems still aren't corrected, then you usually get denial of payment for all payment sources. You're once again given a chance to correct the problems. If on the third revisit corrections are still not corrected you risk losing your Medicare/Medicaid contract. Rarely do they allow a fourth visit. I contacted DHSS today. They told me that The Living Center's last survey was 7/24/08 which I already knew. On this survey they had multiple deficiencies. You can look it up on the Nursing Home Compare web site. They also told me that The Living Center has had THREE revisits and are still not completely corrected. Some of the deficiencies were and others were not. I'm guessing this is where the statement regarding the documentation issues come into play. DHSS will be making a fourth visit. This is all public information that I got with one phone call. As far as staffing, DHSS does have minimal staffing requirements that must be followed by all long term care nursing facilities. Depending on the acuity of care it's not recommended to just follow the minimum and I'm in no way suggesting The Living Center does this. Anyone thinking of placing a loved one in a nursing facility needs to ask the potential home what their nurse to resident ratio is or just ask them how many nurses & nurse aides they usually have on any given shift.

    -- Posted by JustFYI on Wed, Oct 22, 2008, at 2:35 PM
  • Well said working mom. I agree 100% as a Slater parent. Maybe part of the money from some of these silly fundraisers the PTO has and the sports teams now should go to some sort of lunch fund to help cover for those who can't afford to pay here and there. It's not the students fault. Have a heart.

    -- Posted by pumpkin08 on Wed, Oct 22, 2008, at 2:40 PM
  • Farmersgranddaughter,

    You said:

    "You will have to answer for what ever lifestyle or beliefs you may have. Which leads me to this, judge not, lest you be judged, remember?" You may never know what kind of people are in heaven!

    Of course I remember. I used it in my post that you are now responding to.

    Then you said:

    "You may never know what kind of people are in heaven!"

    I couldn't agree more. They might even be gay.

    Your posts change nothing. For all of your religious posturing and blah blah this and blah blah that at the end of the day all you want to do is legally force others to to conform to your religious tennants. Sounds very Taliban don't you think?

    So in closing I would say it was you or should I say people exactly like you that sent me running from the church and "organized religion".

    I thank God every day that I did and that apparently bugs the hell out of you, doesn't it?

    I am very happy and content with my relationship with God and I don't need a church or the approval of others as a baromter of my faith or self worth. Save your prayers for yourself as I think you may need them much more than I do.

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Oct 22, 2008, at 2:47 PM
  • Smokin' Cheetah,

    That was an excellent post and I must say that you are much more eloquent than myself. I am just so angry that just like in the last two elections the GOP is reverting back to basics. Guns, Abortion, Religion and Gay Marriage. This is apparently all they will ever have for a platform. Period. Now Obama is a Socialist. Well, that's not really new just look at Goldwater v. Kennedy. Redistribution of wealth is the battle cry dujour when Obama's remarks or tax policies taken out of context. All taxes and social programs are by definition socialist. The GOP hopes and to some degree are correct that some people will equate that to communism. Typical fear card.

    What I find interesting and troubling is that alot of people are more than willing to assume the worst in Obama while turning a blind eye to what our current administration and the GOP have done and are doing right now.

    One final point. To the question of character. What does it say about John McCain's character when the same horrendous tactics used to defeat him in his last presidential campaign are the very tactics that he is using today.

    He's even employed the same people who used those very tactics against him do do the same to Senator Obama. Keeping in mind of course that Senator McCain vehemently denounced those tactics after his loss and promised us in this election that he would not resort to those tactics. He lied about that and trust me we have enough of that in Washington.

    Senator McCain's closet is well stocked with skeletons that could be used against him but Senator Obama has chosen not to to go that route. I think that is but one reason that he is ahead in the polls and we should all be grateful that at least one politican is willing to risk his campaign by doing the right thing instead of just being willing to do anything. That is what I want in a leader and I hope a majority will join me on Nov. 4th. when I vote for Senator Obama.

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Oct 22, 2008, at 5:57 PM
  • "...the GOP is reverting back to basics. Guns, Abortion, Religion and Gay Marriage..." That is why the Republicans are often referred to as "conservatives".

    "Now Obama is a Socialist." "...when Obama's remarks or tax policies taken out of context." Oops. Nope. Not taken out of context at all. He said it. Joe the Plumber (and now, all of America, heard it.)

    Just clearing that up.....

    Have a great evening!

    -- Posted by missy08 on Wed, Oct 22, 2008, at 6:44 PM
  • just think,

    I'm sorry that your cousin was hurt. Hope she is doing well.

    Just wanted to point out to you (and others who post such comments) that I have heard that the newspaper staff has been greatly reduced these past few months. Basically, one person and several part-timers have been doing 4 people's work. I've heard that they have recently hired one reporter and are soon to add another, brining them back to full staffing.

    Perhaps people who post notes about items that the newspaper misses could take that into account and not make it sound like it's a personal thing when something gets missed. Even with full staffing, the reporters are not superheroes -- they can't be everywhere at once.

    I think they do a fine job of covering what they do with a limited staff.

    -- Posted by hat full of sky on Wed, Oct 22, 2008, at 7:23 PM
  • Missy08,

    The term "spread the wealth" was most definately taken out of context if the GOP is going to use it to label Obama as a socialist in a negative way.

    Every single govt. program that is designed to benefit everyone is a socialist program. Sarah Palin is using the term ad naseum when Alaska is probably the most socialist state in the union because the proceeds of the state resources are evenly doled out to every citizen. So why then does that make Obama the evil socialist?

    I've seen the "Joe the plumber" interaction and yes Obama did say "spread the wealth" which is what we have done since the inception of income taxes, social security, medicare, medicaid or any other program that might actually help someone else. The problem as of late is that the wealth that is being spread is hardly fair and equitable especailly in terms of taxation.

    So, we are in agreement that all conservatives really seem care about is guns, abortion, religion and gay marriage? Just wanted to clear that up.

    Have a better evening.

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Oct 22, 2008, at 7:42 PM
  • BD42: Thanks for recognizing that we can't be in three (or four, or five) places at once. Eric has done a truly wonderful job of juggling the many priorities we have every day, but news happens when it wants to, not when it's convenient for us to cover it.

    -- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Oct 22, 2008, at 8:07 PM
  • It's both frustrating and hilarious to see someone here attempting to paint Alaska as "the most socialist state in the union".

    Allow me to enlighten the conversation on the topic of Socialism just a tiny little bit.

    Here's the crux of the matter, while one poster is correct in general regarding the large majority of government programs being socialist in their nature, they are one hundred percent backwards when they apply the same logic to Alaska. The confusion on the matter surrounds several things:

    A, PFD disbursments from the the State of Alaska to residents.

    B, Essentially ANY of the many social programs funded by the state

    C, The recent legislation proposed and shepharded through the legislature by Gov. Sarah Palin that returned excessive revenues from state coffers to the general population in the form of a 1200.00 check last month, aptly named an "Energy Rebate" as Alaskas pay 20-25 percent more for fuel and heating oil than the national average, despite our vast reserves and massive production and transit infrastructure.

    Here's the reason it's usually a form of Socialism in most places and NOT Socialism in Alaska. In Alaska, the state constitution declares expressly that the resources of the state belong to the public, and not to the States government. The State of Alaska does not take money from one individual, and give it to another in any way shape or form. All of the revenues used to fund social programs and return funds to the people where appropriate come from the development of natural resources that belong in equal part to each living soul in the state, period.

    That's really the point of the aversion to Socialism, aside from it's repeated and demonstrable failure as a form of government. It seeks to forcibly equalize it's subjects, and there's absolutely nothing American about it, it's thoroughly contrary to the American way. To put it simply, without digging into the intellectual nuances of the various forms of Socialism, when Democrats demonize the affluent and seek punitive so called 'progressive' tax policies in order to subsidize the various programs that are designed to benefit a less fortunate class, THAT is Socialism. The only way to describe the employment of rhetoric designed to appeal to the 'proletariat' at the expense of the 'bourgeoisie' is by use of the term Class Warfare, which is the means by which every Socialist Totalitarian gains power and keeps it.

    If Alaska had an income or other personal tax, that siezed funds from one group of private citizens, and provided them in kind or in goods/services to another, THAT would be Socialism. In our case it's not, and it's etched in our states constitution that the government maximize natural resources including fish/game/mined materials and petroleum to the benefit of the people. The producers can't operate here without paying the states various taxes. You'd think Democrats would at least grudgingly applaud Gov. Sarah Palin for boxing the producers into a corner in such as way as she has. It was masterful, her leadership on the issue was remarkable, as was her leadership regarding the recent "Energy Rebate". The overall national read on Palin is just so far off it's truly a marvel.

    The collective knowledge of mankind is now quite literally at the fingertips of the 'proletariat' for the first time in history, however messy of a job it is sorting fact from fiction. I think people should read more and post less.

    Socialism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

    Proletariat: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proletariat

    Bourgeoisie http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bourgeoisie

    -- Posted by MrsAKGrizzly on Wed, Oct 22, 2008, at 8:56 PM
  • Ok Mrs. Grizzly,

    From dictionary.com


    --noun 1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

    I think it's fair in this case to include natural resources as the "land,etc'" as described in the definition.

    2. procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.

    Nowhere in that definition does it say:

    "take money from one individual, and give it to another" which from your post seems to suggest that as the definition of Socialism.

    You said:

    Here's the reason it's usually a form of Socialism in most places and NOT Socialism in Alaska. In Alaska, the state constitution declares expressly that the resources of the state belong to the public, and not to the States government. The State of Alaska does not take money from one individual, and give it to another in any way shape or form. All of the revenues used to fund social programs and return funds to the people where appropriate come from the development of natural resources that belong in equal part to each living soul in the state, period.

    Once again, the definition:

    --noun 1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

    and again no where does it say:

    "take money from one individual, and give it to another".

    Your post of Alaska's form of generating revenue is virtually verbatim to the actual definition of Socialism.

    The problem is that we all benefit to some degree from socialism. What the GOP wants to do is equate any socialism as total socialism and then use that to demonize Senator Obama.

    This takes us to the 3rd part of the definition as noted by dictionary.com which is apparently the only part of the definiton that the GOP wants people to focus on.

    3. (in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.

    True to form they want to play on either the fear of the populace or more likely the ignorance.

    Keep in mind that ignorant doesn't mean stupid it just means someone doesn't know any better and that is what the GOP and Sarah Palin are banking on.

    I fail to see from your arguement where Alaska in not technically speaking a socialist state more than any other in the union. Speaking of the union, how is that whole secessionist movement in Alaska going? You know, the one that Todd Palin was a member of and the one Sarah Palin told to keep up the good work? How's that workin' out for ya?

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Oct 22, 2008, at 9:51 PM
  • Mrs. Girzzly,

    You also said:

    "Alaskans pay 20-25 percent more for fuel and heating oil than the national average, despite our vast reserves and massive production and transit infrastructure."

    I think you guys are getting ripped off.

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Oct 22, 2008, at 9:58 PM
  • It would seem to me the largest act of socialism (under the current Republican Party's watch) was the 700 billion dollar bail-out and now government management of this country's financial institutions.

    Obama, a Socialist...I think not!

    -- Posted by nouveaublogger on Wed, Oct 22, 2008, at 10:13 PM
  • I couldn't say for sure but perhaps the GOP concentrates on the narrower definition of marxist socialism because that is what the DNC and the greater Democrat platform propose.

    You can try and paint Alaska with the dictionary definition of the term if you'd like, but the bottom line is that it doesn't fit the state, period, conversation over. Socialism refers to a much broader set of economic theories of social organization advocating state or collective ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods, and the creation of an egalitarian society. The only thing collectively owned in SOA is sub-surface minerals, and wild fish and game. The means of production are privately owned, and those owners cut a slice off for the state in exchange for the right to make a PROFIT from the extraction, production, and delivery of those resources to a free market....or what's left of the free market anyway. Nothing resebling socialism in the profit motive or the owner/leasor relationship between the the state and private sector industry. How you could possibly fail to recognize that Alaska is not "technically" a socialist state is far beyond me, except that your ideology trumps your intellect, as evidenced by your foamy slobbering attacks on Tod Palin.

    Never mind Obamas deep deep and long running ties to Acorn and the mad bomber Ayers who Tim McVeigh and Ted Kaczynski learned from, that's not relevant at all but Tod Palin and his links to the A.I.P. are endless (mindless?) fodder for kool aide drunks like yourself. Don't be such a bore. Never mind the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac links to Sens. Dodd, Frank, and Obama, let's talk about a tiny 3rd party up in Alaska and it's platform, yay! \o/

    Don't be so fast to tie the feds bailout package to one party, THAT is a hole you won't be able to dig out of, I'd bother to specify at length, but it would fall on deaf ears anyway, you can't bother people with facts when their minds are made up. Suffice it to say that I'd have preferred to watch the whole rotten system burn to the ground than see that abomination of a bill pass, House Republicans made a sort of a stand against it but caved in the end, at least they bothered to stand on principal, if only momentarily. Meanwhile, back at the batcave, Barney Frank, Chris Dodd et al, and Obama himself are sweating bullets hoping they hadn't stumbled their way into squandering the greater portion of the private sectors wealth with their ridiculous SOCIALISTIC policies regarding home ownership, GSEs, and lending not to mention the.... jeez what should we call them...underprivledged borrowers? People who work in finance have a term for the people who recieved loans as a result of Democrat policy, they call them fleas, and once upon time they didn't get the time of day with regards to a home loan because financially speaking, they were just that, fleas, they can't afford it, that's why they didn't have houses already, and why many of them either don't have houses now, or won't have houses for long...unless of course some other Socialist piece of policy gets put into place, regardless of which party pushes it.

    Personally, a cynical side of me wouldn't mind seeing an Obama administration and having Palin back to ourselves while we watch Obama take a turn rolling around in the coal pit being BBQ'd like most holders of high office are, well, like they used to be, before the national press started feeling tingles up and down their legs over Obama.

    Mr. or Mrs. What the F... It's tiring and useless to even attempt to hold a discussion with you, and nothing will turn you from the Obama ticket. I'm okay with that.

    -- Posted by MrsAKGrizzly on Wed, Oct 22, 2008, at 11:14 PM
  • Mrs. AKG: Maybe I am missing something so please let me know if I am wrong, but I think your logic may be a bit flawed on this one.

    The state of Alaska takes in money from its natural resources, which goes in the pot with other collections such as income taxes, and any excess after state expenses is returned to its citizens. Each qualified citizen gets the same amount. However each citizen does not pay the same amount in taxes. The citizen who pays one hundred dollars in taxes gets the same dividend as the citizen who pays ten thousand dollars in taxes. Would it not be more equal for all to get a pro-rata share depending on how much they have contributed?

    It seems that Alaska's program is just a back door redistribution of wealth. The fictional Joe the plumber who has income of two hundred and fifty thousand dollars, and is taxed accordingly, should be squealing like a pig caught under a gate, lipstick or not. Meanwhile, the real Joe the plumber who makes forty thousand dollars should be slopping like a happy pig at his disproportionately full trough.

    Am I missing something here?

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Oct 22, 2008, at 11:52 PM
  • Mrs. AKG, I did forget one thing. The pig with the undeserved full trough might not be happy with his unearned bonus if he was a really stupid pig named Joe.

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Oct 23, 2008, at 12:10 AM
  • You would be spot on except for one thing. The thing that your missing is that there are no taxes in the SOA. There is no income tax, no luxury tax, only a few fees for things like fishing licenses, DMV stuff, that sort of thing, no personal taxes of any kind. So the people don't pay anything to the state from their income at all. Some local communities levy sales and property taxes to a certain extent, but with the exception of the largest city, Anchorage, even that is fairly limited.

    The SOA leases surface area to firms like BP, Exxon, Conoco Philips, etc. Those firms pay for leases for surface area to explore and extract resources. Then there is the Alyeska Pipeline Company. This is a private for-profit firm that is in charge of administering and maintianing the Trans-Alaska pipeline, an 800 mile pipeline that transports oil from the North Slope production fields to the southern south-central coast of Alaska, at Valdez, where it is transferred to tankers and delivered to market. Every step of extraction/production and tranporting of petrol products is taxed. These revenues and other less significant yet still substantial production taxes on various things like mining and other heavy industry pay for the entire state budget, but that's not the whole story. The deal with the money is called the Alaska Permanent Fund Dividend. A certain portion of revenue realized by the state goes directly to general fund budget, then there are things outside of the general fund that get paid for by legislative mechanisms. Another portion of revenues gets set aside for rainy day money in a fund called the Constitutional Budget Reserve. This is a hedge against a crash in the value of petrol products. Then there is the PFD fund. This is an account, currently valued in the 40 to 50 billion dollar range, depending on the market from day to day. This fund is administered by finance people and widely invested with a stable, low risk profit in mind. It fluctuates with the market, but a sum of that size conservatively managed always comes out ahead, it's a financial juggernaut, it barely feels the current market volitility. Each fall, every qualified resident of the state, man woman and child recieves an equal dividend taken from the Permanent Fund.

    It's more complex than that however, first the annual dividend only takes into account a portion of the fund, it's not based on the entire balance, some is reserved to hedge agains market volitility and again against serious economic downturn. The other component is the formula by which the annual dividend is calcualted. Simply put, the annual dividend is based on a five year rolling average of the appropriate portion of the funds balance. To illustrate this, five years ago the price per barrel of oil was in the toilet, dividends were rather smallish, and there was nothing we could really do about it. Basically each year over the last five has seen bumps in the average ppb of oil. So this year, we dropped a bad oil year out of the rolling average and added a better year to the average, bumping PFD checks significantly. For the next five years we'll drop a year out of the formula and add a better year, so over the next five years, we'll see ever increasing shares of oil revenue out of the PFD fund. In the event of a major collapse of oil as a valued commodity, we'll have five years to figure out what to do about lost PFD revenue, and five years to alter our economy and state revenue structure before the wounds actually hurt. It's not a lot of time really but it IS a buffer against calamity. If that ever did happen, I have a lot of faith in Alaskans, we'll pull it together.

    This may not all be precisely accurate, someone who really knew the guts of the industry and the state would probably correct me on a number of semantic points but those are the basics. I'm doing my best not to make a novel out of it. You can read up on the structure if your really interested but that is essentially the basics of the matter.

    This year, with oil prices freaking out the way they did, the state realized and immediate and significant increase in general fund revenue, in fact they took in so much money, so quickly, that even politicians in the legistature couldn't figure out what to do with it. That's when Palin proposed the Energy Rebate checks, a suspension of fuel taxes, and a bunch of money to go toward alternative energy sources, (we have a really cool wind farm) and other diversification projects designed to put a portion of the revenue increase to work in different ways as well as return some cash to the population. We suffer at the pump, we suffer when it comes time to buy heating oil, my heating oil bill was 4.00 per gallon one week ago today. It wasn't right that the state took in obscene amounts of tax revenue for petrol production while the people pay market prices to gasoline in a major oil producing state. So Palin said hey, give em some cash back to take the edge off of heating oil and fuel, it's their money anyway. There was more money there than the government could have spent in any sane way at all, they're still drunk on what's left after Palins energy package passed. Even if the blow it all and oil collapses for good, we still have the CBR and the PFD and about five years of cash reserves to figure out what we should do about funding state government. It's an absolutely beautiful arrangement, and it has nothing to do with Socialism.

    Also, under Palins administration production taxes were increased, and failure to produce known reserves is also penalized, preventing producers from sitting on known quantities in a manipulative posture. This creates a darned if you do, darned if you don't policy trap that boxes the producers decision making into delivering the reserves and paying the state, all the while turning an obscene profit. Not as obscene of a profit as they made under the previous, incredibly corrupt Repbulican administration. In fact, the Republican establishment despises Palin for stepping on thier sweet action and making "honest joes" out of the oil producers, meanwhile, corrupt republican legislators are being jailed by the van full for being on the take from oil related firms, to the cheers of the public and much to the chagrin on the dirty rats who haven't been caught....yet. They (Rs & Ds alike) break out in cold sweats at the thought of Palin working out of DC bending ears at the Justice Department because while Palin has made huge strides in remaking Republican politics in the SOA and cleaning up the corruption, there is still much to be done with corrupt Alaskan Republicans AND Democrats who are equally dishonest and corrupt.

    -- Posted by MrsAKGrizzly on Thu, Oct 23, 2008, at 12:38 AM
  • Even if the pig named Joe was unhappy with his undeservedly full trough, that wouldn't make him stupid, not if he knew where it was coming from, it might make him principaled in his opposition to the redistribution of wealth, maybe the idea of it all just doesn't quite sit well with the pig named joe, eh?... food for thought.

    -- Posted by MrsAKGrizzly on Thu, Oct 23, 2008, at 12:41 AM
  • Oh my goodness! Much has been "discussed" since I signed off last night.

    Mrs. AKG, thanks for picking up the slack. I so enjoy reading your posts. I knew when I responded to the guns, etc. and socialism post that I was wasting my time but the temptation was too great. As I have stated before, I believe that we are "wired" differently. Bumble bees and Christmas trees!

    Have a great day!!!

    -- Posted by missy08 on Thu, Oct 23, 2008, at 5:57 AM
  • Mrs. AKGrizzly,

    A pig with lipstick by any other name is still a pig with lipstick. Socialism is what it is regardless of whether or not there may also be to a progressive tax system in place to help generate revenue or wheter or not you want to split hairs as to the definition. I'm happy for Alaska in that you have such an abundance of natural resources in which to generate revenue.

    Here in the lower 48, most states just aren't that lucky and require a system of taxation. Hey, I wish we just had a flat tax and maybe someday we will but until then I see no problem with tightening the loopholes for those who can afford it.

    As far as Democrats and Republicans we all know that there is plenty of blame to go around but when your rabid republican Governor comes down to the lower 48 and starts spewing what are and are not Pro or Anti American areas of the country, it's offensive and I'm gonna call her on it. I'm gonna talk about her husbands involvement in the AIP and her apparent support of it. I am also offended that she would support an ammendment to the constituion based soley on HER relgious beliefs. Maybe you could tutor her as to the job description and the actual powers, be they real or imagined of the Vice President of the United States.

    ACORN. They are legally required to turn in every registration they recieve,period. They also flag the ones that are suspect. Some people they hired were lazy and just put anything down to get paid. They also go to jail for that. Those suspect registrations are purged from the rolls so Mickey Mouse won't vote and no one will vote more than once. ACORN has acutally done what is was designed to do, register voters. Maybe your upset because alot of the legitimate new registrations are Democrats.

    It's one more thing for the GOP to demonize and that seems to be the only thing that they are really good at. Division.

    Have a nice day.

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Oct 23, 2008, at 7:22 AM
  • Good morning!

    WTF, "Hey, I wish we just had a flat tax and maybe someday we will but until then I see no problem with tightening the loopholes for those who can afford it." Those who are not affected by this tax probably don't have a problem with it. Those of us who will see our taxes go up -- certainly do. You realize, that taxes are taxed by percentage, right. I am already paying higher taxes than those that make less money. I am not "freeloading" or "living off others" as has been previously stated on this board. A flat tax would be great but we all know......

    "rabid republican Governor" Oh come on. You don't have to agree or support but stick to the issues. I think that is another way that we are "wired differently". I find this offensive. Consider yourself "called".

    "..no one will vote more than once." How do you know? Some were allowed to vote "absentee" on the spot.

    Again, just clearing up....

    Have a great day!

    -- Posted by missy08 on Thu, Oct 23, 2008, at 7:51 AM
  • Well Geez,Missy,

    I too pay more taxes than those who make less than I do. The problem is that there doesn't seem to be a fair and equtiable system of taxation. When you get into the big money you can afford ways to either get out of paying a fair share of taxes or you might be in a position to get the people you put in office to do it for you. That is what has to stop.

    Im' glad to see that you are doing so well and are apprently pulling down at least 250 g's because if you aren't your taxes will go down just like the vast majority of Americans who don't make anywhere near that. Think of it this way. If you are making 250 g's a year then you are definately providing some sort of goods and services that are in great demand and that demand more than likely would come from those who don't make 250 grand a year. If those folks taxes are lowered then they will have more money in which you purchase your incredibly popular goods and serivices and it is entirely possible that you will make up any tax increase and could possibly be making even more money because of it. I'm sure you will correct me if I'm wrong but if you are making at least 250 grand a year then it won't have any effect on you.

    Maybe we could dig into the GOP trademark of voter suppression, I'm sure that is just as prevelant as any actual voter fraud by ACORN.

    As to the rabid Republican Governor. Yes and I stand by my earlier comment on her support of molding our constituion into her own biblical billyclub. That, in my opinion is not only rabid but unacceptable and is the birth of Theocracy which would make our conversation about the evils of socialism a fond memory.

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Oct 23, 2008, at 8:14 AM
  • What The F.....

    I am hearby, from now on, going to call the acceptance of tax credits at the expense of successfull, $250,000+ small businesses, VOTER PROSTITUTION, because that is exactly what you are doing if you vote for Obama's tax plan.

    And did I just hear you admit earlier that most ACORN new registrees are Dems? mmmmm.....ACORN workers are Dems. And the new registrations they bring in are Dems. (When of course they're not Mickey Mouse or a starting line-up of a football team or one of the seven dwarfs).

    **Insert bewilered, yet enlightend expression here**

    The word incompotent comes to mind. ACORN should be desolved and started anew.

    Off to work everyone, have a good day! :)

    -- Posted by MrsAKGrizzly on Thu, Oct 23, 2008, at 8:52 AM
  • "... possible that you will make up any tax increase and could possibly be making even more money because of it.... I'm sure you will correct me if I'm wrong but if you are making at least 250 grand a year then it won't have any effect on you."

    Yes, I am correcting you. We work our tails off for our income. I doubt my income would increase at all -- unfortunately I have incredible job security but not because it is anything people want. (and just for a grin -- it's not a government job!!!!)

    -- Posted by missy08 on Thu, Oct 23, 2008, at 9:24 AM
  • Kathy, my warped sense of humor is acting up today... I was just thinking about how tired you must be -- working all day at the paper and all night at the hospital -- ;-0

    Have a great day!!!!!!

    -- Posted by missy08 on Thu, Oct 23, 2008, at 9:29 AM
  • Just to put it over here too, I wanted to thank Fyi for all the info and everyone else who cares about this nursing home issue. I think its awful that Marshall doesn't have bragging rights to the BEST nursing home in the state and that I think it is the fault of Ron Ott. Too often the brown stuff rolls downhill to land on the little people who are busting their butt every day in a bad situation. I suppose I just wanted to push that stuff back uphill this week. Thanks again to Marshall Democrat for running the story. I am sure it's a difficult position to be in and I appreciate the attention to this issue. Our elderly deserve better than what they are getting out there at that hospital. And I'm sorry but the nursing home IS part of that hospital! I don't care what they say. Maybe that is part of the problem! Claim it and make it something to be proud of instead of something to deny and distance yourself from MR. OTT!!!!!!

    -- Posted by capitalistchick on Thu, Oct 23, 2008, at 9:38 AM
  • missy08: You have no idea how taxing it is to be a part-time brain surgeon AND a reporter. :)

    -- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Thu, Oct 23, 2008, at 10:10 AM
  • Maybe it's time for the board of directors to step in and hold Ron Ott accountable. Maybe he needs to give up a few of his trips and WORK on "Improving the Health of the Community."

    -- Posted by tommob on Thu, Oct 23, 2008, at 12:09 PM
  • Where is the story on Casy's getting robbed on tuesday evening? Has anyone heard anything about it.

    -- Posted by marshallmom67 on Thu, Oct 23, 2008, at 1:04 PM
    Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
    A police spokesman informs me there was a theft at a Casey's store, not a robbery.

    How many want to pay a nominal fee for online access to the paper?

    -- Posted by Slater on Thu, Oct 23, 2008, at 4:30 PM
  • OKR, it's pretty cool that you're out chucking the ol' ball around with the grandson. I hope you're able to watch them playing now.

    :) As you know, my memory isn't completely accurate in some instances, but I'm pretty sure that we've never formally introduced ourselves to one another, and it could be that we've never even met. Craig and I have been pretty good friends from the time he moved to Slater from Marshall, but he's never talked much at all about any of his Marshall friends.

    Did any of your brothers play football at MU? I'm remembering one with the same last name as yours.

    -- Posted by Slater on Thu, Oct 23, 2008, at 4:55 PM
  • There's a difference between theft and robbery - in general terms, theft is the illegal taking of property while robbery usually involves the use of force in the taking of the property.

    -- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Thu, Oct 23, 2008, at 5:04 PM

    A documentary film by a Pakistani woman reporting on her conversation with the former president of Pakistan, and a serious look at conditons in the country.

    KF, thiis is the program I mentioned the other day, indicating that it was being aired possibly in November.

    -- Posted by Slater on Thu, Oct 23, 2008, at 8:52 PM
  • Slater: yup.

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Oct 23, 2008, at 11:56 PM
  • Mrs. AKG: Thank you for taking the time to give a detailed response to my post. Thanks to you I know more about The financial system of Alaska.

    However, it makes me wonder why should Alaska, a state apparently in better shape financially than any other state in the nation be getting more federal pork, per capita than any other state in the nation?

    In a strange dichotomy Palin's Alaska is the highest at $506.34 per capita in ear marked funds, while McCain's Arizona is last at $18.70 per capita.

    That is also a form of redistribution of tax dollars paid by all Americans, in this case from poorer states to the richest. I hope that you are going to say you are also against this form of redistribution.

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Oct 24, 2008, at 12:31 AM
  • As you may or may not know, it's a states congressional delegation that is responsible for earmarks, not the Governor, the house and senate, so remove Palin from the formula, and you have the remaining leaders in the Alaskan Republican party, Ted Stevens, Don Young, and Lisa Murkowski. Forget Murkowski, she was handed the post from her father who was trounced by Palin in the parties primary. The fact that Murkowski was even re-elected is remarkable, and perhaps a testament to her, or an indictment of her opponent.

    That leaves the indicted Ted Stevens, the most senior member of his party in the senate, and Don Young, who boasts similar longevity and seniority. Of course he brings home big time federal bacon, it's an ironic criticism since it's considered pretty widely as a sign of a senators effectiveness and his value to his constituency. Just tonight I heard some pundit lavishing John Murtha for having "brought home a lot of money to his district", as he nose dives in the polls for his awkward statements about his own supporters.

    Let me be perfectly clear, I'm not in the least bit ashamed or apologetic for Ted bringing the money into Alaska from D.C. Ted Stevens is just good at it, and that irritates people, get your own senior Senators and Reps! Petition your government to change house and senate rules and let's get rid of all these riders and earmarks and put the fed back on track with it's nose in it's own business, I'm all for it. However, as long as that's the way the fed is going to do business, Alaskans want an Ace player in our corner. The act does redistribute peoples money and certainly has the flavor of socialism about it, and it's not equitable either since the highest tax brackets, and the fewest of us, pay the most in gross tax reciepts to the IRS. Hey, Alaska is a young state, our guys learned from the best of the best at the time. I think there will always be a disproportionate amount of federal money flowing into Alaska as long as their involved in so many things that they shouldn't be involved in.

    Alaskans chafe about the No Child Left Behind Act, which is a terrible bill for Alaska for a host of reasons that don't fault general thrust of the bill but speak more to logistics, but they don't see the connection between the policy and the federal education dollars we willingly accept. If we could break states addiction to federal dollars and along with it the long arm of federal policy that comes with it, we'd go a long way toward regaining control of our state and taking a stand against federal/socialist pork, and I and many Alaskans are all for it, we just have to set up a way to generate revenue to pay for our own schools, and not look to D.C. for answers all the time. This is something all Americans need to focus on, because every state recieves heaps of federal pork for some really odd projects regardless of the controlling party and it's really up to us to figure a way out of it. Ted Stevens and Alaska are just the current poster child for federal pork recently, and maybe they do actually deserve it based on raw numbers.

    In our defense, our flush state coffers are a fairly recent development as it is linked to the price of a commodity, oil. Also there are some unique factors about Alaska that enable the state to draw a disproportionate amount of federal money, again a topic I run the risk of getting extremely verbose on, running the risk of self indulgence. It was so bad not very long ago that the debate surrounded whether or not we should tap PFD money for government or not, and how much we should take if we did. That didn't sit well with people, to many the fund is inviolate. We've taken great strides to diversify and solidify our revenue streams, and a lot of progress has been made by Palin, she's very effective. To answer directly, no I do not support huge pork spending, but that's the game the feds are in.

    If uncle Ted gets convicted, he may actually not be re-elected, which is unthinkable here. I would personally chuckle if he gets acquitted and re-elected, but convicted and then sent back to Washington, priceless. Most A-political Alaskans simply don't buy the governments case against Stevens, there's a huge amount of back story, I could write all night long and not get it all out, that and they're hesitant to send another Democrat to D.C. this cycle for reasons that should be clear to anyone paying attention.

    Palin has been at war with the Republicans in power in Alaska for years now. She recently fell short in an attempt to have a the party chairman ousted, and we love her for trying. Alaskans don't embrace corruption, we just can't quite stand to return the state to Democrats quite yet, maybe this cycle with all the Republican baggage lately, but I'm not sure if our local Dems aren't a little overconfident....again.

    -- Posted by MrsAKGrizzly on Fri, Oct 24, 2008, at 1:54 AM
  • Mrs. Grizzly, your admission to verboseness is the understatement. I'm surprised that Editor Crump hasn't gotten on you for filling so much space. He chastised Gal66 for pasting one article she'd copied, which wasn't even as long as most of your posts have been.

    -- Posted by Slater on Fri, Oct 24, 2008, at 12:02 PM
  • Slater,

    Your response to what I wrote doesn't suprise me. You have a sincere disgust for me which is evident in every point in which you address me, political or not.

    How about the # of posts? Word for word you have me beat hands down I believe.

    -- Posted by MrsAKGrizzly on Fri, Oct 24, 2008, at 12:35 PM
  • Alaska appears to be in a vacuum when it comes to socialism as that only applies to the lower 48.

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Oct 24, 2008, at 12:38 PM
  • Now WTF MrsAKGrizzly did post "The act does redistribute peoples money and certainly has the flavor of socialism about it"

    Slater Eric got on me because I could have just posted the link not the whole story.

    -- Posted by Gal66 on Fri, Oct 24, 2008, at 12:52 PM
  • You're wrong, Mrs. Grizzly. I have no sincere disgust for anyone. I may not agree with everything you say, but you certainly don't disgust me, sincerely or otherwise.

    We're all entitled to our opinions, and I don't have to agree with everything you say to respect that entitlement.

    You're the one who brought up the point of verboseness. I merely agreed with you (in a good spirited way).

    If we can't laugh at ourselves once in a while, we're in big trouble, I'd say.

    -- Posted by Slater on Fri, Oct 24, 2008, at 1:09 PM
  • Gal66, yes, you could have posted the link, but at that moment you happened to be directly in the path of Eric's reminder, and I thought you were unfairly singled out, even though he didn't name you specifically.

    It could have happened to anyone.

    -- Posted by Slater on Fri, Oct 24, 2008, at 1:16 PM
  • Slater, oh my yes, your post.....

    "Mrs. Grizzly, your admission to verboseness is the understatement. I'm surprised that Editor Crump hasn't gotten on you for filling so much space. He chastised Gal66 for pasting one article she'd copied, which wasn't even as long as most of your posts have been."

    .....was halarious. Thank you for pointing out my lack of humor. Perhaps our 'humor' wiring is different as well?

    -- Posted by MrsAKGrizzly on Fri, Oct 24, 2008, at 1:20 PM
  • Yes, there have been a few reeeeeally long messages lately. And yes, there have been a few people posting very frequently. I should have posted reminders earlier, but now's as good a time as any.

    It is a good idea to keep messages relatively short. There's no specific size limit, but I would say if any single comment is 250 words or more it's getting a bit long. If the comment is information available on the web somewhere, it's better to post an intro -- say why you think it's worth reading -- and then post the link. If it's original ideas, it's often possible to boil things down a bit or break them up in to separate comments.

    It's also a good idea not to post too frequently. Again, there's no hard & fast rule, but just as a rough guide, I would say if someone is posting more than 4 or 5 times a day in a given forum (Speak Out or on individual stories), that's going to start giving the impression of trying to dominate the discussion. Might be a good idea, in that case, to consolidate a few messages (keeping in mind that too much consolidation risks running into the comment length problem!) or wait and post a comment that responds to several points rather than replying with a comment to each point.

    I could say more, but I'm getting near my comment length limit :-)

    -- Posted by Eric Crump on Fri, Oct 24, 2008, at 1:23 PM
  • Obviously. Don't fret, I won't express my humorous side to you ever again.

    -- Posted by Slater on Fri, Oct 24, 2008, at 1:24 PM
  • Thank you Eric for putting a stop to the 3 or 4 people who think this is their own personal treestump. And they just spout the same info over and over in different forms.

    -- Posted by GOCHIEFS on Fri, Oct 24, 2008, at 5:22 PM
  • MrsAKG: Palin as mayor, huge earmark amounts accepted. Palin as governor, disparaged "bridge to nowhere" ear mark but kept money, built road to nowhere. Brevity.

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Oct 25, 2008, at 4:09 AM
  • Here in this county real property is appraised two ways - land and improvements. Earlier in the summer I was reviewing the latest appraisal by the taxing authority and saw that my house depreciated by approximately $6,000., but the land went up slightly OVER $6,000. Has anyone else had this experience? We do have the right to protest, but, based on previous attempts, it's a waste of time since they do what they want, arbitrarily and without oversight.

    OKR, I like your new posting style. It reads sort of like a telgram. heh heh

    -- Posted by Slater on Sat, Oct 25, 2008, at 10:15 AM
  • Slater apparently your neighborhood improved but your home didnt keep pace. easy explanation

    -- Posted by GOCHIEFS on Sat, Oct 25, 2008, at 12:50 PM
  • As I said Nandot " over and over"

    -- Posted by GOCHIEFS on Sat, Oct 25, 2008, at 12:55 PM
  • And what would your "easy explanation" be, Chiefs fan?

    -- Posted by Slater on Sat, Oct 25, 2008, at 1:31 PM
  • Slater: About your home, I don't know anything about the area where you live, but it's possible that you're in an area where land is at a premium - that is, there's not much left to build on. My parents lived in a small town where there was actually NO open land left - that would tend to drive up the value of the land.

    As to the depreciation of the home itself, that could reflect a general downturn in your area in home prices, or it could be that the former evaluation was too high and this newer evaluation reflects a downward adjustment from that.

    I realize that the relative tax value of land and buildings doesn't necessarily reflect the "real" value of your place. On the other hand, the "real" value is only what someone will pay for it, anyway.

    -- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sat, Oct 25, 2008, at 1:47 PM
  • KF, thanks for your thoughts, but I fully understand what happens here.

    In the case of the increase in the land valuation, that makes up for the tax deficit the county would have realized if the land value had remained the same, as it has for the past few years.

    Our taxing entity constantly plays these games with property owners, and most people never file a protest, since we're "fighting city hall," so to speak.

    I generally file the protest, as a matter of routine to let them know I'm still here, watching them.

    A couple of my friends living in Jackson Co., Mo. experience the same thing. It isn't unique to Bexar County by any means. I was just wondering if any Saline County residents have encountered similar circumstances.

    -- Posted by Slater on Sat, Oct 25, 2008, at 2:08 PM
  • I thought paying more taxes was a patriotic thing to do according to Biden. I can't believe I'm reading what appears to be unhappiness at paying higher taxes Mr. Slater. You should be happy to pay more. I'm sure the renters and others who would view you as a wealthy land owner are happy to share in the wealth that the government is going to spread around on your behalf! You should be reporting that you feel your property is undervalued so that you can pay more and be very patriotic. Unless you can admit that class envy may end up biting you in the .....Oh wait. In a perfect socialist world you wouldn't be able to own any property anyway.

    -- Posted by capitalistchick on Sun, Oct 26, 2008, at 8:20 PM
  • Capitalist, I don't object to paying my fair share. My objection is to the manner in which my property taxes are levied.

    The local government here is inhabited by public servants with the greatest distain for the people who pay their salaries. They do pretty much as they please, and I'm not exaggerating when I say this. The example I cited reflects the prevailing attitude. There was a report on the local news a few weeks ago which revealed that the property (the land his house sits on) owned by the head of the taxing authority had been decreased by $23,000.+, along with that of two or three of his neighbors, while property owners on the street behind him saw theirs increase. Every change made is made arbitrarily, and the property owner has no effective recourse.

    I don't mind paying my fair share as long as it's calculated properly.

    And, no, I'm certainly not a wealthy landowner.

    -- Posted by Slater on Sun, Oct 26, 2008, at 8:48 PM
  • Yes, Capitalist, the socialists are coming to take you away.

    -- Posted by Slater on Sun, Oct 26, 2008, at 9:05 PM
  • Wealth is relative and I'm sure many people would look at what you have and be envious. I bet they would not feel bad if the big bad arbitrary taxing authority you are complaining about confiscated more from you. You aren't being a very compassionate liberal today.

    -- Posted by capitalistchick on Sun, Oct 26, 2008, at 9:25 PM
  • What goes on here also happens most everywhere else, but obviously that doesn't excuse anything.

    I won't be out much for the tradeoff, so it isn't the money I'm concerned about. I don't like crooks, especially the ones who are hired to look after the affairs of our communities and the people who support those communities with their taxes.

    I grew up in a different era, in a time when people who violated the public trust were dealt with in no uncertain terms. Nowadays those same people MIGHT get a slap on the wrist (or most likely a big bonus) and left to continue their ways. That's what I see wrong with things today. Maybe like that business at the hospital you've been talking about.

    -- Posted by Slater on Sun, Oct 26, 2008, at 9:57 PM
  • Obama leads in newspaper endorsements, one hundred and eighty to seventy five for McCain. Included in the Obama endorsements are thirty five that supported Bush in 2004.

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Oct 27, 2008, at 12:22 AM
  • Regarding the listed newspaper endorsements: The source for the figures is Editor & Publisher, America's oldest journal covering the newspaper industry.

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Oct 27, 2008, at 12:29 AM
  • From the It Was Bound To Happen File.

    Many on this blog, and other blogs across the net have used Snopes.com to debunk right wing statements that are untruthful. I had often wondered when those squelched in that manner would attack the credibility of Snopes.com. After all, such behavior is a favorite Rovian tactic.

    This weekend I received an E mail doing just that. It proclaimed that Snopes. com is owned by "flaming liberals", and went down hill from there.

    Within that same E mail was the comment that truthorfiction.com was a much more reliable source. Curious person that I am I immediately went to the truthorfiction.com website. Lo and behold, I found an entry there totally debunking the E mail I had just read that attacked Snopes credibility, and had recommended truthorfiction.com as reliable.

    I can only surmise that the originator of the E mail must have flunked Karl Rove 101. an important maxim of that school of thought is that never give sources unless you must, but if you must, be sure the source you cite supports your allegation. Yee Gads.

    P.S. Politifact.com is another good place to do credibility checks.

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Oct 27, 2008, at 1:03 AM
  • Uh oh Slater, I think CapChick got you on this one.... "I don't mind paying my fair share". That is exactly what I've been saying.... We have soooo much in common!

    How's the weather in Texas? Blustery and cold here.

    Have a great day!!!!!

    -- Posted by missy08 on Mon, Oct 27, 2008, at 9:37 AM
  • Missy, weather in south-central texas: blustery but not cold - 74 for the high today.

    You better watch out! If you find too many things we have in common, capitalist might start calling YOU a flaming liberal. :)

    -- Posted by Slater on Mon, Oct 27, 2008, at 10:34 AM
  • Thanks Missy.

    -- Posted by capitalistchick on Mon, Oct 27, 2008, at 11:14 AM
  • Anyone see the radio interview shown on Drudge showcasing Barrack Hussein's redistributive ideas? The man is the worst Democratic candidate they come forth with to date. At least McCain doesn't view our country as his own little social experiment lab.

    -- Posted by capitalistchick on Mon, Oct 27, 2008, at 12:17 PM
  • "At least McCain doesn't view our country as his own little social experiment lab."

    Really? I give you Sarah Palin.

    Barack cannot help what his middle name is anymore than you and I and as a name it's actually very common in other places in the world. You know, those places that aren't actually in the U.S.? There is a whole other world outside the U.S.

    Congratulations on falling for and propagating the same GOP tactics of division and hatred. Just what we need right now.

    Rush called, he want's his talking points back.

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Oct 27, 2008, at 12:50 PM
  • I served in the armed forces under the nightmare called Clinton from 1994 to 1998. I was thinking of Him, and his atrocious blowing off of the USS Cole attack, Gore and his pathological lying problem, and Kerry who now doesn't seem so terrible to me anymore. I don't like him and would never have voted for him, but at least he appears to be mentally stable and does love his country in his own little way. Barrack Hussein Obama bin Laden is worse than all the prior 3 put together. So how old are you?

    -- Posted by capitalistchick on Mon, Oct 27, 2008, at 1:05 PM
  • I can't believe McCain-Palin are leading in the MDN poll. This town's IQ must be in the single digits.

    -- Posted by klop on Mon, Oct 27, 2008, at 1:18 PM
  • captialistchick.

    Now you are just showing your ignorance to call Obama that. It's not a thoughful criticism nor does it add any creedence to any policy disagreements that you may have. It's just mean,spiteful,childish and unfortunately typical.

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Oct 27, 2008, at 1:31 PM
  • Klop, don't disparage the mental prowess of the good citizens of Marshall!

    Just keep in mind that everyone gets to vote once every day. :)

    Borrowing from an earlier election, "Vote early, and often!"

    -- Posted by Slater on Mon, Oct 27, 2008, at 1:35 PM
  • Cap chick,

    Why do McCain supports continue to make racist remarks about Obama.

    Furthermore, Palin is a fanatical conservative that feels small town residents are the only "real Americans".

    As for McCain, he's a billion years old.....he may not last four years......then Governor Crazy McLooneypants would be our president.....

    -- Posted by klop on Mon, Oct 27, 2008, at 1:45 PM
  • to klop

    why is it that when someone backs the GOP - you make disparaging remarks about IQ, etc.?

    they are no more ignorant than the person who blindly votes for one party or the other no matter who the candidate is.

    looks a lot like what the demo candidates are doing in florida - if you don't want to play by my rules, i'm taking my marbles and going home - and you don't get to ask me anymore substantive questions. duh - could it be any more plain why they shut it down?

    do us all a favor - and this goes for everyone who plans to vote for a party instead of an individual - stay home on november 4th.

    -- Posted by circuitrider on Mon, Oct 27, 2008, at 1:58 PM
  • Your right, this isn't just about party ties. It's about a superior candidate (Obama) being held back by his race and his name.

    Obama will be a great president, that is if small town bigots can open their peanut-sized minds and give him a chance.

    -- Posted by klop on Mon, Oct 27, 2008, at 2:06 PM
  • What now Broseph

    -- Posted by klop on Mon, Oct 27, 2008, at 2:12 PM
  • "Obama will be a great president...."

    You can bet that Putin and Kim Jong Il are licking their chops at the chance to deal with him instead of McCain.

    Ya know...I'd love to see health care for everyone, I'd love to see cheaper energy, I'd love to see tax cuts for the middle class...but more than anything else I'd love to be sure that my family and I will be kept safe and free. Of the four candidates, Obama is the one I fear is least capable of accomplishing those two things.

    The other things...we can deal with them.

    -- Posted by outsider on Mon, Oct 27, 2008, at 3:46 PM
  • Oh please, do you really think they would risk war with the U.S. because just because Obama was president? That is abusurd. Fear,fear,fear,kill,kill,kill,burn,burn,burn!

    You are overreacting just like we did after 9/11 and what did it get us? It got us current violations of our constitution but it sure as hell didn't help us catch the culprit.

    We will never, ever be perfectly safe no matter who the president is and I submit to you right here right now that that this president has done more harm to our country than the boogey men Putin and Kim Jong Il. By the way have either of them ever actually threatened us specifically? If they have please provide a source that I may learn more about it.

    Let me leave with this:

    "Ofcourse the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger.

    Hermann Göring, Reich Marshal, at the Nuremberg Trials

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Oct 27, 2008, at 4:24 PM
  • I've just been reading an article in the Washington Post about Obama's lead in Virginia (8% today), and this is what McCain is doing to counter that:

    In recent weeks, McCain and state and national Republicans have sought to slow Obama's momentum in Virginia by sending out a flurry of mailers and automated calls that try to link him to 1960s radical William Ayers.

    "I honestly believe Obama is a socialist, a Chicago thug," said Donna Tilley, 58, who lives in Chesterfield County, outside Richmond.

    Actions of a desperate party.

    -- Posted by Slater on Mon, Oct 27, 2008, at 5:07 PM
  • Do you believe there is no connection between Obama and Ayers? Or just that it is not relevant?

    Do you agree with "spreading the wealth"? Can the 5% that are going to see increased taxing really make that much difference? What if next year it is the upper 10% or upper 20%?

    Should people be fined if they choose to not have insurance coverage?

    These are some of the things that I am struggling with.

    -- Posted by new girl on Mon, Oct 27, 2008, at 5:20 PM
  • Hey nicotine stained kitty, can't tell you how much it has made my day to have provoked all the classic lib indignation today! I will cop to hating Obama. I totally think his best buddy Ayers was the inspiration behind the Oklahoma City bombings, that involved the murder of many children. I think he is a terrorist sympathizer. But I don't hate him because he is black. Thanks all. You crazy libs all just make my day. Especially when I **** Ya'll off. Sorry about the grammar errors in that one post. Trying to blog and work doesn't mix. Now all of you go upstairs from your parents basements and ask for some dinner.

    -- Posted by capitalistchick on Mon, Oct 27, 2008, at 5:42 PM
  • At this very minute I'm thinking of the novel by Ken Kesey which was made into a movie, starring Louise Fletcher and Jack Nichholson.

    -- Posted by Slater on Mon, Oct 27, 2008, at 6:30 PM
  • Slater your showing your age. I just don't understand why this would remind you of OFOTCN. Who would you cast me as. If you say Ratchett, I'll just die.

    -- Posted by capitalistchick on Mon, Oct 27, 2008, at 6:40 PM
  • smelly cat, I don't presume to want to change your opinion or anyone else's. This is just a fun playground to blow off some steam in before the election. I don't intend to try to impress the pseudo intellectual wanna Be's on this blog. It'll be fun to watch ya'll go down in flames again. Didn't Kerry go into the election last go around with an even bigger lead in the polls and still lose. I suspect that the people you believe agree with you, who are scared of being called names, actually vote for Repubs, but won't cop to it because they are scared of people like you. It's not like anyone can have a rational discussion with a lib. I would so love to be your BFF!! We could go shopping, but I'm afraid you might have blown all your $$ on e-harmony trying to find a girlfriend. :(

    -- Posted by capitalistchick on Mon, Oct 27, 2008, at 7:26 PM
  • Heh heh heh...no ms. chapstick, not mildred ratcheD (yes, that's right, RatcheD). No, not Mildred, you're not mean enough. Nurse Ratched wasn't a fun-loving person like you are. :)

    -- Posted by Slater on Mon, Oct 27, 2008, at 9:05 PM
  • Lets see who hates Obama? Well there are the skinheads that were just arrested for plotting to kill him. There are the subjects of all the other unreported investigations by the Secret Service, so many in fact that Obama got a Secret Service detail long before the other candidates during the primary. There is the chorus of ignoramuses and fools that are incited by oratory at Palin/McCain rallys that shout kill him, etc. Then there is you CapitalistChick. Fine company you are in.

    Hatred of one candidate or another has been around for a long time. There were those who cheered when Abraham Lincoln was assassinated. There were those who cheered when John Kennedy, and Bobby Kennedy were assassinated. My stomach churned and I was sick when it happened. When Ronald Reagan was shot, I thought my God they have done it again. Enough with the hatred.

    Hatred has never initiated one positive thing. Whether it is as seemingly minor as screaming "I hate you" at your sister, to the ultimate act of hatred as described above, it always has a horrible effect. Therefore CapitalistChick, I urge you to expel the word from your vocabulary, and more importantly, to expel the feeling from your mind.

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Oct 27, 2008, at 11:48 PM
  • Obama supporters, what do you all think of hanging a look-alike Sarah Palin by a noose in your front yard? One Obama supporter said this was all in the fun of Halloween and called it a piece of art. What do you think? Is it art?


    -- Posted by MrsAKGrizzly on Tue, Oct 28, 2008, at 1:03 AM
  • MrsGrizz,

    It was wrong and in very bad taste. I don't know what was in the persons heart but it was definately over the line.

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Oct 28, 2008, at 5:32 AM
  • Sorry, I don't pretend to aspire to the saintly standards of Okie. I definitely have stuff I hate. I hate mosquitoes, my itchy hemorrhoid, Pink, Obama, changing the cat box, and cleaning the toilet (especially after a night of drinking). I will promise you that I won't go link up with the skinheads and go shooting at mosquitoes, my hemorrhoid, Pink, Obama, the catbox or the toilet. Speaking of cat box, where is my smoldering ******** this morning? BFF...where are you? Sniff.

    Thanks Slater. I never knew the correct spelling of that nurse. I never read the book, just saw the movie. I'm okay with chapstick.

    -- Posted by capitalistchick on Tue, Oct 28, 2008, at 8:35 AM
  • About that hanging Palin. That is a typical lib for you. TOTAL HYPOCRITES! If someone did that to an Obama doll there would be screams of outrage, calls for hate crime prosecution, and lots of calling people racist! Compassionate open minded politically correct bleeding hearts my butt!

    -- Posted by capitalistchick on Tue, Oct 28, 2008, at 9:04 AM
  • Captialistchick,

    You seem to be very emotional this morning. Good thing your finger isn't on the button.

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Oct 28, 2008, at 9:26 AM
  • Which button are you referring too? hehehe

    -- Posted by capitalistchick on Tue, Oct 28, 2008, at 9:41 AM
  • I'm with you, capitalistchick, the noose is an icon of hatred that can't be employed as a "joke" -- its history cannot be passed off with a cavalier wave of the hand. And the use of it as a political gesture is completely unacceptable.

    Of course, Obama has been subject of worse: An actual plot (with plotters accumulating the actual firepower to carry it out) to assassinate him. That's not a gesture of hatred. It was a plan for violence.

    The fact that both stories broke about the same time may explain why the Palin-noose story (which is being reported nationally) is getting a little less attention.

    I for one sure will be glad when Nov. 5 gets here!

    -- Posted by Eric Crump on Tue, Oct 28, 2008, at 9:59 AM
  • I agree Eric

    A noose around the neck of an image of anyone as a form of protest - or as a halloween prank - should not go unpunished.

    Planning to assassinate ANYONE should also be dealt with swiftly and severely.

    This hatred thing has gone just about far enough.

    History should be our tutor on this subject, and - no matter where you stand on the election - hatred should NOT be a factor in your vote.

    No matter what - I will still respect the office of the presidency. As perplexed as I am about the past eight years, and as angry as I was by the time Bill Clinton left office - I still believe the office of the president is an honorable thing to aspire to.

    Let's hope it stays that way after November 4th.

    And let's take hatred out of the picture.

    As we used to say when I was a much longer individual - "Peace, man!"

    -- Posted by circuitrider on Tue, Oct 28, 2008, at 10:22 AM
  • Does anyone know if convicted criminals still lose the right to vote?

    -- Posted by Slater on Tue, Oct 28, 2008, at 10:46 AM
  • Slater: Yes, generally they do. It depends on the offense, and in some cases, the right is restored later. I'll do a little research on it and get back to you.

    -- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, Oct 28, 2008, at 10:50 AM
  • Thanks, KF. A convicted felon is what I intended to say.

    I was just thinking about how the Miranda Decision has impacted the legal system over the past 40-some years.

    -- Posted by Slater on Tue, Oct 28, 2008, at 10:54 AM
  • -- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, Oct 28, 2008, at 10:55 AM
  • Thanks for the links, KF. As I expected, the rules governing felons are as convoluted as the rest of the legal world.

    Wouldn't it be nice if a simplified but effective system were in place to govern every legal issue.

    A few years ago a basketball player (Rickey Paulding) was being recruited by MU. His mother wanted to come to Columbia from her home in Michigan, and the school wanted to pay for her trip, so the school's legal department was asked to look at the NCAA rules to see if the offer would violate any regulations. It turned out that two different rules, both with nearly identical language, were cited. At that time the NCAA rules book had nearly 1,000. entries. One thousand rules to govern amateur athletics. Hard to imagine why that's necessary, but who knows how many duplications, or repetitions, of rules are in place throughout our legal system.

    -- Posted by Slater on Tue, Oct 28, 2008, at 11:25 AM
  • Slater: Here's one way to look at it - if the word "legal" is involved, you can rest assured the words "convoluted," "complicated" and "unnecessary duplication" will not be far behind. And I say that with all due respect to the lawyers of this world, my sister and her husband among them. :)

    -- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, Oct 28, 2008, at 11:33 AM
  • The way I think about it, I suppose I'd be the Law and Order candidate. I'm not able to understand why our society believes we should be paying $60,000. to $80,000. or more per year per convict to keep them in jail, when something along the line of what that sheriff in NM or AZ is doing would be more fitting.

    I believe people like this Morisette guy should suffer more than national heckling for his wooden-headed action. Halloween art, my a_ _.

    -- Posted by Slater on Tue, Oct 28, 2008, at 11:56 AM
  • Slater, Slater, Slater. What am I going to do? That sounds a whole lot like Missy08 to me. Dare we have this low tolerance thing in common also?

    Hope you are having a great day!

    -- Posted by missy08 on Tue, Oct 28, 2008, at 12:03 PM
  • Eric and Kathy,

    What do you think about the Florida "Biden interview". Do you think the reporter was "unprofessional" and asked "inappropriate" questions? From the professional media/journalism point of view? Just curious......

    -- Posted by missy08 on Tue, Oct 28, 2008, at 12:07 PM

    Program Description

    This film presents a personal journey through Pakistan and explores a country markedly different from the images projected by the international media. It probes the varied and diverse mindsets of the people of Pakistan; their understanding and meaning of democracy and their opinion of what their country's political system offers.

    -- Posted by Slater on Tue, Oct 28, 2008, at 12:59 PM
  • I assume you're referring to the interview referred to in this clip:


    I didn't think the interviewer's questions or manner were inappropriate. Nor was Biden's response. The only thing I'm puzzled by is why the exchange itself has become a story. It looked like good journalism and fairly typical political speech.

    For a politician to use a bit of ridicule directed toward a journalist who asks an uncomfortable question is kind of standard operating procedure for both parties.

    For a journalist to pose a question that is based on an opposing party's rhetoric is fine, too. What's West supposed to do, just pitch big fat DNC softballs to Biden?

    Seemed to me like she and Biden were both on their game that day.

    -- Posted by Eric Crump on Tue, Oct 28, 2008, at 1:07 PM
  • Eric and I have some disagreement on this topic - I think West could have asked the same questions in a different way and still gotten perfectly good answers out of Biden, without adding to the already-too-fevered pitch of this election cycle.

    Jill Geisler, of Poynter Institute J-school, said she felt some of the questions were of the "Have you stopped beating your wife?" variety and I have to agree in some measure.

    The questions to McCain, which I have read but not seen on video, struck me as a little less confrontational, although not in the category of "softballs."

    -- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, Oct 28, 2008, at 1:23 PM
  • If we believe that every story has two sides, then we need to see West's inverview with McCain to determine whether this is even a story. If she asked McCain the identical questions, we can then compare apples to apples, as it were.

    -- Posted by Slater on Tue, Oct 28, 2008, at 1:38 PM
  • Slater: The questions were not identical. Here's the text of the questions to McCain from West:


    You'll have to scroll down the page a little way to find the McCain questions.

    -- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, Oct 28, 2008, at 1:46 PM
  • I may be because Barbra West is married to Wade West who is a republican political consultant.


    -- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Oct 28, 2008, at 1:52 PM
  • I'm all for binning the West videos, along with the questions.

    I'm more inclined to believe that we're seeing the Karl Rove Bag of Dirty Tricks at work with respect to voter registration fraud.

    Since when did voter registration fraud suddenly become a novel issue?

    Since when did one party or the other inherit sole ownership of invalid voter registrations?

    Unless and until the FBI investigates ALL voter registration efforts and starts putting registration workers in jail for deliberate wrongdoing, I will only believe that this is an underhanded effort to subvert the rights of citizens to vote.

    -- Posted by Slater on Tue, Oct 28, 2008, at 2:48 PM
  • The Biden/West interview was quite a contrast to the McCain/West interview. Questions to Sen. McCain included: the 'Palin/McCain staff rift; Sen. Obama's well coordinated campaign; Joe the plumber; Sen. Obama's tax plan; Rep. Barney Frank's defense spending reduction plan; an Obama interview "did several years ago." Biden's questions included: ACORN; 'spread the wealth'; Karl Marx/marxism; turning America socialist.

    While I understand that Ms. West is an 'anchor', she is also listed as the stations "health reporter"; an area she has received several awards for. I would think that the interviews would have been better left to a reporter that covers 'politics & election news' for the station.

    -- Posted by modemocrat on Tue, Oct 28, 2008, at 3:43 PM
  • Touche' to the Leslie's for their editorial in tonight's paper. Come on Democrat News,, this ongoing stuff is beneath you.. If you want to report on local folks and the problems they get "themselves" into, fine! But leave their family connections out of it.. It's irrelevant!

    -- Posted by rmb4life on Tue, Oct 28, 2008, at 6:21 PM
  • I believe the controversy with the Barbara West interview with Senator Biden began in earnest when the Obama campaign staff canceled all future interviews with that station. In other words, they got out of the kitchen. Heat too hot?

    -- Posted by pressman on Wed, Oct 29, 2008, at 1:01 AM
  • rmb4life,

    Actually, the Leslie family is the one out of line. I realize that trust with the press has detoriated, what with the shennigans of the press in the past decade, but when did stating the facts become an attack? It is absolutely true that the gentleman mentioned is related to Wally George. The Leslies also mention a problem with stating that a person (years ago) was identified as a Missouri Valley student.

    Both of those statements are FACTS -- which is what a paper is supposed to report.

    The ironic thing is that Wally George (who is one of the best public servants I know) knows this. If you ask him, he'll tell you straight.

    -- Posted by hat full of sky on Wed, Oct 29, 2008, at 7:21 AM
  • This business about Socialism and Marxism no doubt also came out of Rove's bag. People like him make me wonder how they managed to talk their way into the human race.

    -- Posted by Slater on Wed, Oct 29, 2008, at 9:20 AM
  • However, in spite of the deviant few who do their best to poison our minds, the bottom line for me is this:


    -- Posted by Slater on Wed, Oct 29, 2008, at 9:46 AM
  • For Mrs. AKGrizzly

    From Hendrik Hertzberg's New Yorker commentary about McCain and Palin's failed attempt to convince people that Obama is a socialist is the final paragraph containing this boast from Gov. Sarah Palin:

    The state that she governs has no income or sales tax. Instead, it imposes huge levies on the oil companies that lease its oil fields. The proceeds finance the government's activities and enable it to issue a four-figure annual check to every man, woman, and child in the state.

    One of the reasons Palin has been a popular governor is that she added an extra twelve hundred dollars to this year's check, bringing the per-person total to $3,269. A few weeks before she was nominated for Vice-President, she told a visiting journalist--Philip Gourevitch, of this magazine--that-

    "we're set up, unlike other states in the union, where it's collectively Alaskans own the resources. So we share in the wealth when the development of these resources occurs."

    Perhaps there is some meaningful distinction between spreading the wealth and sharing it ("collectively," no less), but finding it would require the analytic skills of Karl the Marxist

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Oct 29, 2008, at 9:58 AM
  • Missy, I see you're having a heat wave, a TROPICAL heat wave! Hang up that winter coat for a few days. :)

    Am I right in thinking that Melissa Ethridge is from somewhere around Leavenworth, KS?

    -- Posted by Slater on Wed, Oct 29, 2008, at 11:19 AM
  • What the F.....

    Once again your biased reading has lead you astray. No fear! I am here to educate you :)

    First of all, ask roughly HALF of the US population if they think Obama's tax policies are socialist and they will tell you YES! So, failed attempt? I think no.

    I know now that you don't read what I write because I've already explained this. And thank you for informing me of this huge sum of money I recieved. I was not aware. I'll go check my bank account immediatly!

    Sarah Palin is not to be credited for the PFD..that was set up in 1976, loooong before anyone knew of her. And the Energy Rebate allowance you are refering to was first introduced in Feburary - many, many months BEFORE her VP announcement and directly ment for those living out in the bush where their sole heating source is the fuel we here in Alaska were paying $5.00 a gallon for - imagine trying to heat your entire house with that 10 months out of the year.

    We produce the oil. We pay higher in retail for it. THAT is the reason for the rebate.

    Don't quote someone who presumes to know why I like my governor and then stand there with your hands on your hips and think you know how it works up here. YOU DON't! YOU DON'T GET IT. YOU WON'T GET IT BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT TO.

    (BTW, if we hadn't gotten that rebate money, it would have been lost in October when the market when went down the toilet)

    -- Posted by MrsAKGrizzly on Wed, Oct 29, 2008, at 1:25 PM
  • Mrs. AKGrizzly,

    I'm surprised to hear that you speak for half of America. That's the only way I can explain your comment -- "ask roughly HALF of the US population if they think Obama's tax policies are socialist and they will tell you YES!"

    Can you give me some hard numbers to back up such a sweeping statement?

    -- Posted by hat full of sky on Wed, Oct 29, 2008, at 2:22 PM
  • My explaination is simple. It is my opinion. If your curious, ask anyone planning on voting for John McCain if they think Obamas tax policies are socialist.

    Hince the word "Roughly" half.

    -- Posted by MrsAKGrizzly on Wed, Oct 29, 2008, at 3:29 PM
  • Mrs. AKGrizzly,

    My post speaks to the battle cry of your governor in that Obama is "the" demon socialist.

    It has nothing to do with wheter you and I like her or not yet and you still make it sound as if I made some sort of personal attack on her. Why is that? Why does any criticism of Governor Palin always considered a personal attack?

    I get your point.

    Alaska pays dividends to residents and generates revenue for the state govt.by the selling of it's natural resources that are "collectively owned" by the residents of Alaska in lieu of taxation. i.e. sharing the wealth. Yeah, I get it. It's called socialism no matter how you parse words or split hairs. Semantics.

    My point is to the hypocrisy. Alaska's redistibution of wealth is some sort of noble gesture while in the eyes of your Governor, everyone else is a closet communist. Meanwhile, Alaska will accept billions in earmarks from the socialists in the lower forty-eight while you stand high on a mountain, with hands on your hips, shouting with righteous indignation that " I DON'T GET IT!"

    No, I do get it, the question is do you?

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Oct 29, 2008, at 3:32 PM
  • No What the F..., you clearly do not get it. Your last post implys that Sarah Palin bought her approval rating. And I am telling you that, as a citizen of Alaska, that is only a tiny fraction of what she has accomplished to earn her her approval in this state.

    What gives you the impression I am taking this as a personal attack on her? You addressed me by name, you certinly expected me to disagree with you, and I told you just what I though of what you said. That's it.

    Speaking of hypocrisy, I would think you would all be in favor of taxing the living daylights out of big oil in leu of state taxes. Is your new label of Alaska as Socialist because Sarah Palin is governing us? I know how you dislike her so. It is alright to do this on a national level, but Alaskans are socialists to disperse big oil tax on a state level?

    I do not call the annual PFD socialism because we are not taxing one private citizen at a higher rate to turn around and give it to another who is not paying any. The PFD is given out to the owners of the oil EVENLY to EVERYONE. I've said all this before. I don't know why it's so hard to get.

    None the less, neither opinions are going to change one the topic.

    -- Posted by MrsAKGrizzly on Wed, Oct 29, 2008, at 4:08 PM
  • Mrs. AKGrizzly,

    In addition to speaking for half the country, you also are one of the most optimistic people I've met if you think half the country is voting for McBush! Wake up and smell the coffee.

    -- Posted by hat full of sky on Wed, Oct 29, 2008, at 4:33 PM
  • Mrs.AKGrizzly,

    You said:

    "I do not call the annual PFD socialism because we are not taxing one private citizen at a higher rate to turn around and give it to another who is not paying any."

    But what you are doing is "spreading the wealth" regardless of how you want to dress up the pig before applying lipstick. If your Governor just doesn't like the fact that tax rates will go up for those making a specific amount of money (and that probably includes her)then she should just say it,period,without all the drama,doom and gloom. Our tax system will never seem to be fair to everyone, especially when for the past 8 years that system has favored those of wealth. The proposal is to roll back the cuts for the wealthy made by Bush. Maybe those affected should just increase thier BEFORE TAXES contribution into thier IRA's by the same percentage as a tax increase. The irony being wheter or not they trust the market enough to put in more money.

    Now we here Wayne Hyzinga(don't know if that is spelled right) part owner of the Miami Dolphins and ultra rich is wanting to sell his half of the team right now for fear that if Obama gets elected he will have to pay more capital gains taxes. He is crying the blues very publically about this while I watch my health insurance rates go up yet another 34% this year for no apparent reason. So pardon me if I don't shed a tear for this man and his football team or others like him who reap the benefits of tax loopholes and everthing else this country has to offer while they move company headquarters to mail boxes in the Cayman Islands or reside in other countries all to avoid taxes.

    Governor Palin acts as if the govt. is going to force someone to let a less fortunate family move into her finished basement and drive her cars.

    Your point is well noted and if that's the way you feel then I would expect you to do the right thing and spearhead the Alaskan movement not to pay into the federal system or take one more dime from the socialists in the lower 48.

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Oct 29, 2008, at 5:09 PM
  • What is it about Halloween that drives some people to hysterical extremes. It has gotten to the point in my neck of the woods that kids hardly venture out to trick or treat anymore.

    First it was rumors of imagined razor blades or needles in apples that scared overly impressionable parents (I am being kind here) to the point that they forbade their children the Halloween fun of trick or treating. Unfounded rumors got so far out of control that the local television "newscasters" (I am being kind again) were advising parents to take their children's candy to hospital emergency rooms to be x-rayed before allowing their children to partake. Of course the hospitals went along with the foolishness. I believe that one has died out now, but only after doing its part to diminish the number of children who get to enjoy the fine old tradition.

    Now there is a sex offender behind every door on Halloween. Another phony fear has raised its phantom head. I wonder how many more children will be denied the delightful experience from this latest bogie man.

    I suppose that eventually all our already over organized children will be marched off under parental escort to churches (no sex offenders there), or other safe places to get a lame bag of candy, and to be frightened by scary abortionist caricatures, or Muslims. Then, they will march back home to dark bed rooms, heads filled with fears stimulated by too zealous religion and politics, too scared to sleep, afraid to even scream.

    I am on the side of the witches and goblins on this one. I guess that wonderful little fellow Charlie Brown said it best....good grief.

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Oct 30, 2008, at 1:03 AM
  • It appears that Joe the plumber was a poor example for John McCain to use to disparage Barack Obama's tax plan. If the rumors are correct that Joe's income in his present job is $40,000 or $50,000, then he will get a tax cut under Obama's plan. As long as his adjusted gross income (AGI) is under $100,000, he will get a tax cut. During those years, he can use that additional money to save up to buy this business that he plans to buy. Then, if he is as successful as he hopes to be and joins the 2% of small businesses that net over $250,000, if he is a smart business man he will invest some of those profits back into the business, thus growing his business and reducing his tax burden. The way to do this would be to invest in capital items and/or hiring more employees. So, you see, Obama's tax plan is not a jobs killer; it is a jobs generator and an economy stimulator.

    -- Posted by Ridgeway on Thu, Oct 30, 2008, at 1:27 AM
  • FYI

    We're broadcasting a live feed of Sarah Palin's appearance in Cape Girardeau. Kit Bond is speaking now. The link is the lead story above.

    -- Posted by Eric Crump on Thu, Oct 30, 2008, at 9:05 AM
  • Palin is taking the stage now.

    -- Posted by Eric Crump on Thu, Oct 30, 2008, at 9:36 AM
  • Thank You Eric for giving us the chance to hear Sarahs speech.If i wasnt 100% McCaine/Palin.I would be after her stirring speech. And just remember her closing remark.."There is only one candidate in this race who has ACTUALLY fought for you"

    -- Posted by GOCHIEFS on Thu, Oct 30, 2008, at 10:12 AM
  • The live feed was great. Thank you Eric.

    -- Posted by MrsAKGrizzly on Thu, Oct 30, 2008, at 10:20 AM
  • Hey MDN,

    Why hasn't there been a live feed for any of the Obama/Biden Mo. speeches. There have been plenty of them. I know Marshall is a McCain stronghold, but give me a break.

    -- Posted by klop on Thu, Oct 30, 2008, at 10:27 AM
    Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
    Our parent company is Rust Communications, which is based in Cape Girardeau. The flagship paper, the Southeast Missourian, ran the live feed of Palin's campaign stop there and offered us a chance to broadcast it, too. If we can find a way to broadcast Obama's speech in Columbia, we'll do it.
  • Thanks

    -- Posted by klop on Thu, Oct 30, 2008, at 10:31 AM
  • OK Reader - thanks for your voice of reason regarding the "bogeyman"! I have long been of the opinion that tales get out of control around Halloween and quite frankly, I'm sick of it!

    -- Posted by koeller77 on Thu, Oct 30, 2008, at 4:14 PM
  • News, everything okay with you and the Frau these days? I hope you're busy making lots of money. What kind of money is used there in Oz, by the way?

    My long-time friend and his wife are down in your vicinity. They departed Kansas City for Aukland, NZ on October 18, and should be showing up in Sydney sometime early this coming week.

    OKReader has convinced me that I should go trick-or-treating tomorrow night. The weather here will be good for a change. In the past, Halloween has been cool and rainy, but not this year.

    I'll save you a tootsie roll. :)

    -- Posted by Slater on Thu, Oct 30, 2008, at 9:39 PM
  • This was written by William J H Boetcker in 1916.

    The Ten Cannots

    You cannot bring prosperity by discouraging thrift.

    You cannot help small men by tearing down big men.

    You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.

    You cannot lift the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer.

    You cannot help the poor man by destroying the rich.

    You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than your income.

    You cannot further brotherhood of men by inciting class hatred.

    You cannot establish security on borrowed money.

    You cannot build character and courage by taking away man's initiative and


    You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and

    should do for themselves.


    Rev. William J. H. Boetcker

    -- Posted by Billfromraytown on Thu, Oct 30, 2008, at 10:02 PM
  • Many of the conservative pundits have been critical of the McCain-Palin ticket. Here is an article by George Will in which he takes shots at the ticket.


    For Republicans, Independents, as well as conservative Democrats who admire Mr. Will it may be worth your time to read this article in the Washington Post.

    It is also worth noting that over forty newspapers that went for Bush the last time around have endorsed Obama-Biden.

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Oct 31, 2008, at 12:57 AM
  • Eric or Kathy,

    Can you post what time the polls will open tuesday?


    -- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Oct 31, 2008, at 6:06 AM
  • This is from the secretary of state's Web site:

    Polling places open at 6:00 a.m. and remain open until 7:00 p.m. Those individuals arriving after the polling place has closed will not be allowed to vote. However, those individuals in line at 7:00 p.m. will be allowed to vote.

    Additional voter information can be found here:


    -- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Fri, Oct 31, 2008, at 7:52 AM
  • Question:

    Did anyone notice a hint of "strokiness" during Mr. Obama's speech last night in Columbia.

    From time to time, he seemed to slur his speech and favor the left side of his face - his voice even went to a lower picth during those times.

    Maybe the campaign trail is taking its toll - he may be just very tired.

    But it was noticeable. Hope he's OK.

    -- Posted by circuitrider on Fri, Oct 31, 2008, at 8:52 AM
  • 'Twas the night before elections

    And all through the town

    Tempers were flaring

    Emotions all up and down!

    I, in my bathrobe

    With a cat in my lap

    Had cut off the TV

    Tired of political crap.

    When all of a sudden

    There arose such a noise

    I peered out of my window

    Saw Obama and his boys

    They had come for my wallet

    They wanted my pay

    To give to the others

    Who had not worked a day!

    He snatched up my money

    And quick as a wink

    Jumped back on his bandwagon

    As I gagged from the stink

    He then rallied his henchmen

    Who were pulling his cart

    I could tell they were out

    To tear my country apart!

    "On Fannie, on Freddie,

    On Biden and Ayers!

    On Acorn, On Pelosi"

    He screamed at the pairs!

    They took off for his cause

    And as he flew out of sight

    I heard him laugh at the nation

    Who wouldn't stand up and fight!

    So I leave you to think

    On this one final note-



    -- Posted by Billfromraytown on Fri, Oct 31, 2008, at 11:42 AM
  • When the Bush TAX CUTS expire (Obama and the Democrat Congress have promised they will let them expire) we will ALL (except those who don't pay taxes, they will receive "hand out", "share the wealth" checks from the government) get a huge TAX INCREASE. People you'd better wake up and smell the coffee before you vote and not after! Many have already voted (early) for Obama and now regret that they did.

    -- Posted by Billfromraytown on Fri, Oct 31, 2008, at 11:56 AM
  • Raytown Bill, I believe you and California Ray came from the same egg.

    -- Posted by Slater on Fri, Oct 31, 2008, at 12:14 PM
  • Cute poem Bill.

    -- Posted by MrsAKGrizzly on Fri, Oct 31, 2008, at 12:17 PM
  • I'm tired of supporting lazy people that do not want to work. If you feel the same way, and are tired of "sharing the wealth" then we need to keep Obama out of the Oval Office. All of you people that are waiting with your hand out, GET A JOB! Maybe if you start paying taxes you will see how the working class feel.

    -- Posted by tommob on Fri, Oct 31, 2008, at 12:33 PM

    -- Posted by GOCHIEFS on Fri, Oct 31, 2008, at 1:13 PM
  • I'm with tommob, nObama wants to (redistribute the wealth)which means take from the working class and give to the lazy people and illegal alien's who dont want to work!!!!I'm tired of paying for these people!!. Dont blame Bush. The democrat's have been in control of Washington for the last 4 years, not bush. Do you really want a man from the south side of Chicago running our country? have you seen what a mess that city is? By far more murders there than in Iraq, and that's a war zone!!! they are millons and millons in debt and getting worse everyday. THINK PEOPLE--- DONT BELIVE THE SERMONS!!!!!!!!!!If he gets elected it means higher taxes for all of us so the lazy people dont have to work!!!!!

    -- Posted by 17mizzou17 on Fri, Oct 31, 2008, at 1:36 PM
  • Bill Clinton is the blame for this credit crisis just before he left office he is the one who said everyone in America should be able to buy a home. Whether you could afford or not!!!!!

    -- Posted by 17mizzou17 on Fri, Oct 31, 2008, at 1:40 PM
  • Please read BEFORE YOU VOTE

    Part 1

    Remember the election in 2006? Thought you might like to read the following:

    A little over one year ago:

    1) Consumer confidence stood at a 2 1/2 year high;

    2) Regular gasoline sold for $2.19 a gallon;

    3) The unemployment rate was 4.5%.

    Since voting in a Democratic Congress in 2006 we have seen:

    1) Consumer confidence plummet;

    2) The cost of regular gasoline soar to over $4.10 a gallon;

    3) Unemployment is up to 5% (a 10% increase);

    4) American households have seen $2.3 trillion in equity value evaporate (stock and mutual fund losses);

    5) Americans have seen their home equity drop by $1.2 trillion dollars;

    6) 1% of American homes are in foreclosure.

    ; 7) Food prices skyrocketing over 30% in 1 year.

    America voted for change in 2006, and we got it!

    Remember, it is Congress that makes the laws and spends our money -not the President.

    He has to work with what's handed to him.

    Part 2:

    Taxes...Whether Democrat or a Republican you will find these statistics enlightening and amazing.


    Taxes under CLINTON -1999 Taxes under BUSH-2008

    Single earning: Single earning:

    30K - taxed- $ 8,400 30K - taxed $ 4,500

    50K - taxed $ 14,000 50K - taxed $ 12,500

    75K - taxed $ 23,250 75K - taxed $ 18,750

    Married earning: Married earning:

    60K - taxed $ 16,800 60K - taxed $ 9,000

    75K - taxed $ 21,000 75K - taxed $ 18,750

    125K - taxed $ 38,750 125K - taxed $ 31,250

    Barack Obama promises to return to the higher tax rates if elected. It is amazing how many people who fall into the categories above think Bush is screwing them and Bill Clinton was the greatest President ever.

    If elected, Barack Obama has already promised that he will repeal the Bush tax cuts, and amazingly, a good portion of the people who fall into the categories above can't wait for it to happen.

    PART 3:

    You think the war in Iraq is costing us too much? Read this: Boy, am I confused. I have been hammered with the propaganda that it is the Iraq war and the war on terror that is bankrupting us. I now find that to be RIDICULOUS. Read on...

    I hope the following 14 reasons are forwarded over and over again until they are read so many times that the reader gets sick of reading them. I have included the URL's for verification of all the following facts.

    1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year by state governments.

    Verify at: http://tinyurl.com/zob77

    2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.

    Verify at: http://www.cis..org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

    3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.

    Verify at: http://wwwcis..org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

    4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English!

    Verify at: http://transcripts.CNN.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.0.HTML

    5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.

    Verify at: http://transcripts..cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

    6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.

    Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ld t.01.html

    7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.

    Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

    8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare & social services by the American taxpayers.

    Verify at: http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html

    &nb sp; 9. $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens.

    Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

    10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. I n particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US

    Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html

    11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the Southern border.

    Verify at: Homeland Security Report: http://tinyurl..com/t9sht

    12. The National Policy Institute, 'estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period.'

    &nb sp; Verify at: http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/pdf/deportation.pdf

    13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin.

    Verify at: http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm

    14. 'The DaRk Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States .'

    -- Posted by 17mizzou17 on Fri, Oct 31, 2008, at 1:44 PM
  • tommob,

    I find your words offensive. Your generalizations that a vote for Obama is a vote to support the voluntarily nonworking welfare-abusers of the Country are impudent! I get up and go to work everyday! I work hard for my pay and I do pay taxes!! Believe me, I do know how the working class feels. I, however, don't know what it is like to make $250,000 a year or more...do you? I plan to vote for the Democratic ticket! I don't believe the lower and middle class should pay a large portion of the overall taxes this country takes in while rich folks (those who do know what it is like to make $250,000 a year or more) get to keep more of what they make. Why shouldn't those making more have to pay more? That seems fair to me. We've seen that the trickle down theory doesn't and hasn't worked! You can't give everything to the rich and expect them to 'spread their wealth'...greed is greed! We can look at the people on Wall Street to find the truth in that. I don't want to support the voluntarily nonworking welfare-abusers either, but some folks are not working right now because the economy is so bad that jobs have been cut. Not every person in the United States that is not working right now is not working because they just don't want to work! Your tax dollars go to help those people...are they bad people? Do you not want to 'share your wealth' with those unfortunate soles who have lost their job and are worried about how their going to feed and house their children? They didn't ask to be laid-off! They may be searching desperately for a job and haven't yet be able to procure one! What if that happened to you? I'm not going to change your mind about the election and you're not going to change mine, but I just don't think it is right to make generalizations about folks!

    -- Posted by Typesetter on Fri, Oct 31, 2008, at 2:00 PM
  • Sorry to offend typesetter. I am not talking about the people that have lost their jobs. I'm talking about able bodied lazy people that expect to be taken care of. THey do not appreciate it, they expect it and I for one am sick to death of it. I know people get down on their luck, and yes, they need a helping hand not a lifetime handout!!!!

    -- Posted by tommob on Fri, Oct 31, 2008, at 2:25 PM
  • tommob,

    I do agree that there are some people who are parasites on society. I don't want to support those people either, but in order to support the good, we usually end up supporting the bad too. There just doesn't seem to be away around it.

    Also, I believe if you were raised by a lifelong welfare-abuser that is what you know. Who teaches the children of those folks differently? If that is what you know that is what you will more than likely grow up to emulate. Its just a revolving cycle. Seems sad but, who shows the welfare-abusers child how to, or even how to want to, break the cycle? If you don't know any better it is hard to do better. We need people that can show these children a better way. We need people that can teach them to want to be able to support themselves and their families when they grow up by working a job. I don't know how to make that happen but I think it would be a good thing for society in general.

    Further, regarding jobs and working, some people might say that illegal aliens do the jobs that no U.S. Citizen would do. I don't believe that is true. I think that is one reason why citizens here have trouble finding jobs. I think if an alien will do the job much cheaper that is who employers hire. As far as 'so-called'legal aliens go it is my understanding that some employers get tax breaks for hiring those folks. That just doesn't seem right! It also seems that many aliens, illegal or not, get lots of freebees from our government...such healthcare...which I think is crap! I have to pay big dollars for health insurance and their children get to go to the doctor for free on my tax dollars. Then instead of spending their money in our economy they send their pay back to their homeland. I also don't appreciate my tax dollars going to have an interpreter in Courtrooms, and other places of official business because many of those that come here to benefit from living here don't think it is necessary to learn the language that is commonly spoken here. Maybe I just muted my earlier point about generalizations...I'm not saying all aliens don't try to assimilate and all come here to use the benefits of living here. I know some that are good, hard-working folks who not only assimilate, but do their best to help others do the same. However, if you want to discuss people to who unfairly benefit from your tax dollars I think the non-assimilating non-citizen worker might be a big place to start.

    -- Posted by Typesetter on Fri, Oct 31, 2008, at 3:34 PM
  • Typesetter, you're on the right track, but in order to round out your thinking you could give yourself a hand up by studying some of the research that's been done on welfare and attitudes toward immigrants.

    To tommob, Obama doesn't intend for anyone to have a free ride any more than McCain does. What he's saying is that he wants to help those who are willing and able to help themselves. Those are the people who need the hand UP. If you talk to the director of your local welfare agency, that person will tell you what the research shows about people caught in the so-called cycle of poverty, and what can be done to help eradicate it. I must say, your earlier statements didn't sound Christian-like. You put me in mind of the crowd throwing stones at Mary Magdalen.

    At any rate, the fact remains that whoever is elected will need help from ALL of us, not just those who side with one party or the other.

    -- Posted by Slater on Fri, Oct 31, 2008, at 4:08 PM
  • "I don't believe the lower and middle class should pay a large portion of the overall taxes this country takes in while rich folks (those who do know what it is like to make $250,000 a year or more) get to keep more of what they make. Why shouldn't those making more have to pay more? That seems fair to me."

    Typesetter, please remember. Income taxes are taxed by percentage. We do not have a flat tax. If you make more, you already pay more.

    "You can't 'give' everything to the rich and expect them to 'spread their wealth'...greed is greed!"

    I don't consider it "greed" when you work hard to try to make a better life. And I think the use of the word "give" here is totally inappropriate.

    As for helping out those who are "in need". Absolutely. That will continue.

    Jeesh, we're all in this together...

    -- Posted by missy08 on Fri, Oct 31, 2008, at 4:15 PM
  • Here are the facts as I see them: the economy has tanked and we are in a recession; oil companies are posting the largest profits of any corporations in the history of this nation, while still receiving enormous tax breaks; we have the largest deficit in history that will take our children's children's children to pay off; the dollar is the weakest it has been in decades; we are in a war that we entered under false pretenses in which hundreds of thousands have perished, with no end in sight. All of this in 8 short years.....the proof is in the pudding, so to speak.

    I would love to keep all the money I earn; sadly, there are roads and bridges that are falling apart, an army to finance, and a multi-TRILLION dollar debt to repay. Also, there are millions of people who are born with developmental disabilities or serious illnesses who cannot take care of themselves, and require the government's help. This is what taxes are for. Its not so black and white. Its very simplistic thinking to believe that most of your taxes are going to people who are lazy and refuse to work. Yes, those people exist and get welfare. There will always be people like that. I don't like them either!!! But what about the huge oil companies and other corporations who get billions in tax cuts, while making billions in profit? Aren't they getting welfare as well? And what about farm subsidies? I would rather have my tax paying dollars going to people who CAN'T help themselves, and if that ends up including some who WON'T help themselves, so be it.

    I feel compelled to note that the biggest welfare reform in the nation came under Clinton's administration. He instituted the welfare-to-work program. It ended lifetime dependence on welfare and encouraged those using welfare to obtain employment by offering training opportunities. I'm proud to add that he modeled his plan after Missouri's own highly successful welfare reform program.

    -- Posted by ckstaley on Fri, Oct 31, 2008, at 5:52 PM
  • Here's something you won't be contending with when you go vote on Tuesday:


    -- Posted by Slater on Fri, Oct 31, 2008, at 8:06 PM
  • There's been a whole lot of folks warning us that Obama will bring higher taxes to all of us. Its pure bull, and they know it. Ever straight shootin source says it jest ain't so.

    Seems those kinda fellers jest cain't get it through their haids that this here election ain't about what Obama might or might not do, it's about what Bush already done did, with the hep of'n his sidekick John McCain. The old "maverick" was ridin with him ninety percent of the time. Right there when the posse was sent in the wrong direction. Right there when the bank was burnin an they never smelled the smoke. Yes sir, McCain tries to say where he disagrees with Bush, but that's like Gabby Hayes arguin with Roy Rogers.

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Nov 1, 2008, at 12:07 AM
  • Really, Well I just seen him on tv saying he was raising the captial gains tax by 5%,so tell us again he's not going to raise taxes!! Not a report, not on the internet, HE SAID IT HIMSELF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    -- Posted by 17mizzou17 on Sat, Nov 1, 2008, at 5:47 AM



    -- Posted by Billfromraytown on Sat, Nov 1, 2008, at 9:42 AM
  • That's right Bill, she'll never have to worry about putting gas in her car, food on the table, electricity in her house, medicial emergencies, clothes, nothing.....Obama will take care of her at our expense....and apparently the "middle class income" is being redifined by Obama...last I herd it was $120,000.

    And Nana....95%..95%..95%..95%..95%... Delusional! If middle income was just redefined as $120,000 how long is it going to be $70,000 to come and punish my income? The incredibal shrinking Obama tax cut is coming to get me!!!

    Gov. Bill Richardson:

    "What Obama wants to do is -- is he is basically looking at $120,000 and under among those that are in the middle class, and there is a tax cut for those."

    -- Posted by MrsAKGrizzly on Sat, Nov 1, 2008, at 1:28 PM
  • Here's an even more important fact. Our country has a massive debt, most of due in large part to the Bush administration and this debt has to be paid some how. If somtime in the future our taxes have go up to pay for it we shoudn't be surprised. We won't like it but we shouldn't be surprised.

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Nov 1, 2008, at 7:21 PM
  • I cannot wait for Tuesday to get here and then after that everybody and shut-up about who's gonna be president or why what's his face sucks.

    -- Posted by para-chic on Sat, Nov 1, 2008, at 7:24 PM
  • Congratulations to Katie Wells, Matt Bledso and Stormy Morrison for their excellent performance at District Cross Country today. These three will be going to State in Jefferson City next weekend. A extra congratulations goes to Wells for bringing home the honors of District Champion for Marshall High School! The first time a girl from Marshall has brought home the honors since Dana Gaddy.

    This team is very tallented with all girls that are underclassmen. They will have a strong team for at least 2 more years.

    This is just another sport, like swimming, that gets no, to little support and attention from anyone in this town. All everyone cares about is the losing football team.

    -- Posted by get a clue on Sat, Nov 1, 2008, at 9:23 PM
  • Well, shoot!! I see the American Vegetarian Party candidate didn't make it onto the ballot. :(

    -- Posted by Slater on Sun, Nov 2, 2008, at 11:07 AM
  • There is concern about the security of the Diebold voting machines that are used by about half our country. Below is a site that discusses the existence of software programs that can check, to some degree, the veracity of vote counts by the suspect machines.


    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Nov 2, 2008, at 11:15 PM
  • OKR, I was told that the voter using the touch screen machine sends the tallies to a database by pressing a button on the machine. That's the kind I used the other day, but I've also been a little uneasy about our system.

    I wish someone in the coming administration would undertake to put into place a uniform system with safeguards.

    -- Posted by Slater on Sun, Nov 2, 2008, at 11:24 PM
  • This one has got me scratching my head.

    How can it be that the same conservative pundits who proclaim that Sarah Palin is not qualified to be president, thought that Bush was qualified?

    Are they wrong in both cases, neither case, or either case? No matter which, it begs concern when leading conservative pundits have a lesser opinion of Sarah Palin's competency, than that of George Bush.

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Nov 2, 2008, at 11:45 PM
  • I'm still believing it's largely a matter of a chauvinist mentality. I remember seeing some guy on the Charlie Rose program saying that Hillary would not be a serious candidate because of being female. I'm sure many must feel the same about Palin, but maybe for somewhat different reasons.

    I was really hoping our society had started to move away from that mindset, but evidently not. If I was back in graduate school again I'd be writing a thesis on this subject, how attitudes about race and gender have seemingly become internalized by the white male population.

    -- Posted by Slater on Sun, Nov 2, 2008, at 11:53 PM
  • Does Oklahoma have early voting? I was readign online today that all states supposedly have some form of it, known by different names. I asked a freind in St. Charles, Mo. about it and he said MO doesn't have it. Maybe not by that name. Another item needing some uniformity.

    By the way, we had a total of four groups trick-or-treating the other night. All the kids in this neighborhood are grown now, and that leaves us old fogies, I guess.

    -- Posted by Slater on Mon, Nov 3, 2008, at 12:12 AM
  • Slater, I hate to make you more insecure about your vote, but seven counties in Texas have reported the machines flipping Obama votes to McCain.

    This is a serious problem. I hope that you were not victimized. It is happening in early voting all across our nation.

    Apparently you can lessen the chance of it happening if you check every candidate individually instead of just voting a one check straight party ticket.

    For more details check this hyperlink. I also strongly recommend my previous hyperlink on rogue voting machines.


    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Nov 3, 2008, at 12:12 AM
  • When you mark your choice for president, it then marks all Democrat or Republican. Then I went down the list of each candidate and made whatever corrections were needed. I wouldn't know if that made much difference.

    Do you know which counties reported the problem? I'm in Bexar County. I haven't heard anything on the news about it, but that doesn't mean anything either.

    -- Posted by Slater on Mon, Nov 3, 2008, at 12:18 AM
  • What about flipping the other way - McCain to Obama? Any of that reported?

    -- Posted by Slater on Mon, Nov 3, 2008, at 12:20 AM
  • Very disturbing! Two or three weeks ago I sent an email to the DNC asking about voter machine problems and related matters, and all I got from them was a deluge of emails all asking for money.

    -- Posted by Slater on Mon, Nov 3, 2008, at 12:27 AM
  • Slater, Oklahoma does have early voting. The problem is that the voting location is confined to the county election board headquarters, which are in each county seat. That has made for long lines for early voters. I think that if I vote mid afternoon election day at my little precinct I should not have much delay.

    A little aside: Though I think McCain will carry Oklahoma as projected, it will be closer than it has in many years in Oklahoma. You actually see more Obama signs than McClain signs in the Oklahoma City metro, and even in some of the towns in western Oklahoma which is usually as red as it gets. I think there is even a remote chance that we will rid the state of looney senator James Inhofe, who is wholey owned by big oil.

    All this red state stuff calls to mind a phrase you will remember from the cold war days thatis more appropriate now than ever, "better dead than red".

    See you down the road.

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Nov 3, 2008, at 12:38 AM
  • Slater: Nope. All the flips have favored the Republicans. However I am sure that has nothing to do with the fact that the machines were made by corporations that are huge supporters of Bush, and now McCain. It also does not concern me that the chief executive of Diebold said prior to the 2004 election that he would do anything he could to get Bush elected. It also does not worry me at all that Diebold fights tooth and nail to keep anyone from knowing how their machines work.

    What me worry?

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Nov 3, 2008, at 12:47 AM
  • Slater Bexar County is not one of the seven Texas counties that have thus far reported the problem. You can check those effected thus far on the second hyperlink I inserted.

    Any one else that reads this post should know that investigators of this problem are STRONGLY urging voters to forego the easy way of just checking the straight Democratic party ticket, and instead opt to check your choice on each race on the ballot.

    Not all states have the ballot option to vote a straight party ticket.

    I always select each race individually. Sometimes I actually vote for a Republican (some will find this hard to believe), and more often give certain Republicans a final consideration before casting my vote for their opponent.

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Nov 3, 2008, at 1:16 AM
  • This is kind of "off the topic" but I was wondering if anyone knows the name of the "boss" or high-up of GE energy in Slater. I need to get a hold of him for an interview for school.

    -- Posted by aen2012 on Mon, Nov 3, 2008, at 7:39 AM
  • aen2012: You can contact GE in Slater at 660-529-3208 or 660-529-2227. I'm sure they can help you out.

    -- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Mon, Nov 3, 2008, at 10:19 AM
  • Thanks Kathy!

    -- Posted by aen2012 on Mon, Nov 3, 2008, at 2:03 PM
  • aen2012: You're welcome. :)

    -- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Mon, Nov 3, 2008, at 4:07 PM
  • Does anyone know what the pecan crop up highway 24 has been like this year? I was thinking back to teh days when my mother would pin me down and sort of coerce me into helping her shell pecans and walnuts. The walnuts I didnt' mind messing with, but I could NEVER get the hang of shelling pecans.:) She finally gave up when she noticed I was eating most of what I picked out of the shells.

    Can anyone recommend a good device to use? I feel the urge to crack a few this season. :)

    -- Posted by Slater on Mon, Nov 3, 2008, at 4:49 PM
  • Wow, I totally agree. I used to really enjoy reading the message board. But, for the longest time it has been nothing but politics! Good to see something else for a change. I agree a link would be great for those that want to get on their soap box about politics.

    -- Posted by RedAngel on Mon, Nov 3, 2008, at 8:41 PM
  • I think being lazy is great. I dont have to work because i got you people payin taxes. Let me tell you, i love it. Raise the rich peoples taxes by 300% i say. I mean if you make 200,000 a year you dont need the money, so you can let me sit in my lazyboy and watch jerry springer all day. I mean being lazy is so great. You all should quit your jobs and try it. We can all live the lavish life of a lazy man. Its so great. Why the hell should i have a job? Haha, i dont even pay income taxes. Doesnt this sound great?

    -- Posted by lazyboy on Mon, Nov 3, 2008, at 10:47 PM
  • Since we've temporarily moved from politics, I have a question for the newspaper.

    Why is it that some news stories refer to an arrested person as "Marshall man", "Malta Bend man" "Slater man" etc and nothing more is ever said...while for similar incidents, others have the person's name, age and address out there for everyone to see, along with multiple follow-up articles?

    I think I know the answer, but in the interest of fairness, I hope I'm wrong.

    Personally...I'd say leave out the names, but just make sure the same rules apply for all.

    -- Posted by outsider on Tue, Nov 4, 2008, at 9:27 AM
    Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
    Once formal charges have been filed, we use the names of the accused.
  • I did my civic duty this morning and voted. All I have to say now is thank goodness that after today I will not have to hear these words, "I'm (insert candidate here)and I approve this message." for a really long time. I am so sick of political advertising I could hurl!!

    -- Posted by Typesetter on Tue, Nov 4, 2008, at 9:49 AM
  • Yes, Typesetter, I voted too. And, yes, I will be so glad to not hear any more political advertisements for a while.

    I vote at the Catholic Church -- voted at 8:30 and was about the 450th to vote. Wish we could have that turn out at every election!

    Tomorrow (I hope we know tomorrow) whether we are happy or disappointed, we will pick up, work together, and make our country the envy of the world.

    -- Posted by missy08 on Tue, Nov 4, 2008, at 10:42 AM
  • Yes, but I believe that tommorrow will be the start of the 2012 election. uugh!

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Nov 4, 2008, at 10:44 AM
  • Oh my WTF, you are probably right!

    -- Posted by missy08 on Tue, Nov 4, 2008, at 11:38 AM
  • "...we will pick up, work together, and make our country the envy of the world."

    I like that, Missy.

    -- Posted by Slater on Tue, Nov 4, 2008, at 11:59 AM
  • Oooh! Fun election fact (via CNN): This is the first time in 28 years (since 1980) that there will not be a Bush or a Clinton on a major party ticket!

    I think those little tidbits at the bottom are my favorite part of the election coverage.

    -- Posted by koeller77 on Tue, Nov 4, 2008, at 2:05 PM
  • Oh yeah, and one other thing -- Good job to Ken Bryant and also to Paul Gieringer. There were a lot of people voting this a.m. but everything was moving smoothly -- no long lines, no chaos or confusion. There may have been headaches "behind the scenes" but there was nothing evident at my polling place. The students that were working were doing a great job -- friendly, respectful, and professional. Thank you!

    -- Posted by missy08 on Tue, Nov 4, 2008, at 2:38 PM
  • The Smurfs are on DVD!

    -- Posted by koeller77 on Tue, Nov 4, 2008, at 4:10 PM
  • Here on Time Warner in Marshall MO you can

    get old Tom & Jerry cartoons on the Cartoon

    Network. Most of the other junk they offer

    on that station is just that,,,"JUNK"! But at

    least Tom is still chasing Jerry and Jerry

    is still outsmarting Tom. Just like the good ole days.

    -- Posted by rmb4life on Tue, Nov 4, 2008, at 4:23 PM
  • Ok I will ask the questionl as it looks like Obama will win.

    What good will come from an Obama victory?

    -- Posted by Gal66 on Tue, Nov 4, 2008, at 8:38 PM
  • Missourians, we have no one to blame but ourselves for what is coming for this state and nation. Apparently we are satisfied to see what has been to be no more. God help us!

    -- Posted by rmb4life on Tue, Nov 4, 2008, at 10:40 PM
  • Congratulations rmb4life,

    You have taken an wonderfully historic moment in our country and ruined it!

    You said:

    "Apparently we are satisfied to see what has been to be no more. God help us!"

    Look to the future and let your hate go. God help you.

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Nov 4, 2008, at 11:25 PM
  • Rmb4Life: Did you see John McCain's concession speech? It was filled with the heart, and strength that are among his better qualities. He was not ugly in defeat. You can catch it on youtube if you can spare the time.

    Concerning your prayers, they are between you, and your God. I can't resist the observation though (since you made your's public) that it might be proactive to consider praying for our new president instead of your first inclination.

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Nov 5, 2008, at 1:36 AM
  • Behavior can be modified through legislation, but legislation won't change attitudes.

    Maybe attrtion will take care of the bigotry.

    -- Posted by Slater on Wed, Nov 5, 2008, at 9:17 AM
  • A sad day for America

    -- Posted by GOCHIEFS on Wed, Nov 5, 2008, at 9:50 AM
  • Ok I will ask the question one more time as Obama has won.

    What good will come from an Obama victory?

    -- Posted by Gal66 on Wed, Nov 5, 2008, at 10:18 AM
  • Plenty of good if you let it. If McCain had won and you were posed that question, what good would have come from a McCain win?

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Nov 5, 2008, at 10:49 AM
  • This is the first time for me to comment here,but I am so upset with what I saw at the voting poll on S. Miami, that I just HAVE TO comment.Did any one notice the FRAYED AMERICAN FLAG and on election day of all days. I have always thought of this church as one of the wealthiest in town. Can they not afford to fly a new flag. Where is thier AMERICAN PRIDE ?

    -- Posted by sidetrack63 on Wed, Nov 5, 2008, at 10:57 AM
    Response by Sydney Stonner/Staff writer:
    Your comment inspired us to do some research about the American flag and provide readers with information about it.

    These are some websites that tell the proper treatment for and history of American flags.




    This website describes the American Legion flag disposal ceremony.


    Here is the site of a nonprofit organization where you can report flags in poor condition.


  • Go Chiefs,

    I think it is only a sad day for 46% of Americans. The other 52% don't think it's such a sad day. If more people thought Obama winning would be such a bad thing I think the vote would have went the other direction. Some people seem to think that now that the President is going to be a Democrat and we have a Democratic majority in Congress that things are going to change for the worse. How can that be when the vote of the people not only elected a Democrat for President, but also elected those in Congress. Is it possible that a majority of people think that the Democrats can make a positive change for our country? I think the polls tell us that. I think this is only a sad day for those who want to make it that way. The way I see it the faster we get George W. Bush out of the White House the better! If there is anyone responsible for a sad day (or eight sad years) it has been our current President.

    -- Posted by Typesetter on Wed, Nov 5, 2008, at 11:55 AM
  • WTF,

    McCain did not win so what if's don't work with me!

    Back when you asked for anyone to give you a good reason to vote for McCain I tried to explain why I was going to vote for McCain ie his stance on gun control, taxes, his views on pro life and energy.

    From you I would like a better answer than "A lot if I let it"

    -- Posted by Gal66 on Wed, Nov 5, 2008, at 1:18 PM
  • I think its so funny when all these people blame the President for all the problems when we have 535 Members of Congress.

    So whos faul is it really?

    -- Posted by Gal66 on Wed, Nov 5, 2008, at 1:25 PM
  • Well, the Republicans did have control of congress 6 of the last 8 years, so I guess you are right Gal66.

    -- Posted by born-n-raised on Wed, Nov 5, 2008, at 1:57 PM
  • Appears to me sidetrack63 that if you are so upset over the looks of a flag and it really upset you. You should ride out to wal-mart buy a new one a donate it to the church. I agree strongly that flags flown should be presentable. On the other hand you can't juge an idividual on the looks of there flag or a church. If you feel it needs to be replaced help them out

    -- Posted by RedTruckRider on Wed, Nov 5, 2008, at 2:34 PM
  • Gal66,

    Do you believe that the buck stops with the president?

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Nov 5, 2008, at 2:59 PM
  • WTF I really don't know what I believe anymore.

    Yes the buck stop with the president but he sure cant do it my himself.

    born-n-raised the problem is neither side has done anything to help the problems

    -- Posted by Gal66 on Wed, Nov 5, 2008, at 3:47 PM
  • Syndey - thank you for the links on proper handling of our flag. This is taken from one of those links:

    The Salute

    To salute, all persons come to attention. Those in uniform give the appropriate formal salute. Citizens not in uniform salute by placing their right hand over the heart and men with head cover should remove it and hold it to left shoulder, hand over the heart. Members of organizations in formation salute upon command of the person in charge.

    Could someone please inform our President Elect of this. He doesn't seem to follow this and ESPECIALLY as Commander in Chief of our military, needs to set a proper example. Actually, this needs to be taught to everyone at a very young age.

    I hope the majority was correct in their choice for our next President. As military, I respect him just as I do current President Bush. Don't have to agree or like them but I do respect them. If things turn around and he does what he promised, I will be the first to say I was wrong.

    -- Posted by Air Force Wife on Thu, Nov 6, 2008, at 8:10 AM
  • Speaking of flag --


    This is worth a watch........

    -- Posted by missy08 on Thu, Nov 6, 2008, at 10:33 AM
  • AirForceWife

    On that occasion Obama did not have his hand over his heart. Maybe you would like to go here and read about what he was taught as a young man. His grandfather taught him to put his hand on his heart for the pledge of allegiance and to sing for the anthem. As children people are taught different things and not everyone is familiar with what the US Flag Code says about the National Anthem. I was always taught to remove a hat,show quiet reverence and to sing if desired but was never told explicitly to put my hand on my heart for the anthem although I was for the pledge. Different strokes for different folks.


    -- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Nov 6, 2008, at 12:50 PM
  • AirForceWife -

    I would agree with WTF that it depends on what you are taught. I, for one, was always taught never to clap after the National Anthem. Other people are taught NOT to sing along. Neither is in the flag code. A Google search on National Anthem etiquette shows that there are varying "rules" out there.

    It would be wonderful if we ALL abided strictly by the Flag Code, as I, too, am appalled by the number of violations I see on a regular basis. But the reality is, it won't happen until people are made aware of the "real" rules from a young age!

    -- Posted by koeller77 on Thu, Nov 6, 2008, at 2:19 PM
  • Basically, it's all part of a smear campaign that didn't work. The general American population is smarter than the conservatives give us credit for. If you think, for one minute, that all media outlets missed this story and their opportunity to raise questions about his patriotism- you're wrong. You don't just stumble upon something like this and think you're the only one that caught it. Fact is, people have been doing research on the man for the past 2 years and anything that's true, has stuck. Anything false, seems to fall in the laps of pushovers that will believe anything for the sake of their own cause. Take a look at this link as well:


    -- Posted by er on Thu, Nov 6, 2008, at 2:27 PM
  • miss08: Thanks for posting the link to Robin Williams' riff on the flag. I saw it earlier this week and thought it was just great!! Thanks to you, lots more people can see it.

    -- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Thu, Nov 6, 2008, at 2:39 PM
  • A good post, ER. It never ceases to amaze me how some people are either unwilling or unable to formulate a reasonable opinion about a topic.

    I have a sister living in Saline County who's in that category. A week or so ago while we were talking I mentioned that I'd voted early and she responded by saying she didn't want to vote for either of the candidates, especially "that one who was born in Kuwait." When I asked her where she'd heard that fairy tale, she said, "Well, EXCUSE me." I reminded her that only native-born citizens are allowed to become candidates for the presidency. At that point she moved on to Fred Thompson and how she planned to write in his name.

    Some people simply refuse to exercise any sort of rational thought, I guess.

    Thanks for posting the link.

    -- Posted by Slater on Thu, Nov 6, 2008, at 4:48 PM
  • WTF - I had already read the snopes link along with the rest of the on line stories about the picture. So whatever. I stand by my position on people - especially the commander in chief of the military - should know or at least bother to learn proper flag etiquette. That's the first thing taught in every branch of military. If a person wants to be their leader he should be held to the same standards. Obviously it is easy enough to find this etiquette on line if he was taught incorrectly. Even as a Senator, he should have known. So you see, this was not a smear campaign. On that occasion it was a fact which he made a good effort at correcting later. I watch CNN and Fox - both ran the story at the time so guess I'm not wrong about that nor am I a pushover to believe everything nor did I formulate an opinion. I simply made a point. Guess you have to be part of the smarter general population to have seen it.

    -- Posted by Air Force Wife on Thu, Nov 6, 2008, at 6:39 PM
  • er - you stated people have been doing research on the man for 2 years...let me correct you. I lived in IL when he ran against Jack Ryan for and was elected to the Senate in 2004 so I became very familiar with "the man" long before most Americans ever heard his name. I even had his campaign sign in my front yard. I thought he would make a great Senator. So please don't put me in a category of conservatives who are less intelligent than the general American population. Even the conservatives are Americans.

    -- Posted by Air Force Wife on Thu, Nov 6, 2008, at 9:28 PM
  • Air Force Wife,

    Please go back and re-read my response to your post about flag etiquette. Yes, I defended Obama because I was pretty much taught the same thing.

    I merely made a point in response to yours.

    Judging by your most recent post I can't help but I think your bitterness goes far deeper than the National Anthem. You then go on to accuse me of not being part of the smarter general population and that I didn't see your point.

    No. I saw yout point and responded in kind. I was not trying to be combative or confrontational, I was merely offering another point of view. I'm sorry you are bitter and that is something that you will have to work on. BTW, the "smarter general population" that you spoke of

    just elected Barack Obama president.

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Nov 7, 2008, at 5:57 AM
  • WTF - who said I'm bitter? I made a point and now that proper flag etiquette links are on here perhaps you and anyone else who doesn't know can learn the proper way. I said NOTHING about the national anthem. My comment was regarding proper flag etiquette. As for accusing you of anything - I did not. My only response to you was that I had read snopes but thank you for putting it here for everyone. The general population comment was referencing er who insinuated that I am a conservative and not as intelligent as the general population. Why are you Democrats so defensive? Talk about an angry bunch of people. If you would read my first post on here, you will see my feelings about President Elect Obama - he should now be addressed properly as opposed to some calling him "the man". I'm not angry or bitter as to the outcome of the election. It's over. Now it's a matter of hoping he can bring Congress together for the good of the country. He has worked hard to get where he is and I hope he does well.

    -- Posted by Air Force Wife on Fri, Nov 7, 2008, at 8:08 AM
  • WTF - as for the national anthem, here is a clip from the web:

    The Pledge of Allegiance and National Anthem

    The pledge of allegiance should be rendered by standing at attention, facing the flag, and saluting.

    When the national anthem is played or sung, citizens should stand at attention and salute at the first note and hold the salute through the last note. The salute is directed to the flag, if displayed, otherwise to the music

    It is up to the adults to set an example and teach children this. I have noticed at sporting events and rodeos which I frequent, the majority will follow suit of those around them. It's at least a start. I was taught this in 1st grade when we started our day by saying the Pledge of Allegiance. Those were the "good ole days" in many regards.

    As for the future - I already know my taxes are going up because of my income bracket. But I sincerely hope the majority of people who believe Pres. Elect Obama can lower their taxes stop and realize he can't perform magic. With all the additional debt Congress is taking on right now, taxes are going to HAVE to go up if we ever hope to have a balanced budget. I do hope his plans work. I just hope the population doesn't beat him down as we seem to most politicians. I'm not sure why anyone would put their family through any kind of election.

    -- Posted by Air Force Wife on Fri, Nov 7, 2008, at 8:41 AM
  • Wow, Airforce Wife. It does seem like there's a chip on your shoulder. I am an Obama supporter and live in STL. I am from Marshall and have many relatives there. I never said you didn't do research on Obama. I said the conservatives spread these false stories around to hope that at least one would stick. Apparently, one did because there's a long blog about it. Also, I received an email from an educator in the Marshall school district, from their school email address, regarding the link I included (which is very scary that a teacher would believe something like that- who knows what lies they spread around within the kids). I was referring to those people who didn't take the time to research but were the first ones to pass emails around saying how he was muslim, didn't pledge allegiance to the flag, etc. The link was to clear up those lies and anyone who believed that to be true. You were never included in what I was saying, so calm down. And yes, you are correct. The media, which I was referring to about researching- not you, has been doing research on him for OVER 2 years. My point was, and I hope you would have gotten this, was that since he began running for President the media has DEFINITELY researched every possible avenue- even past what they would for a senator. There will be no surprises like everyone is claiming with the whole patriotism issue. As far as calling him a man, he is- I'm sorry, but he is a man. If you'd like to call him by a correct title and be literal, his title is not president. It is President elect.

    -- Posted by er on Fri, Nov 7, 2008, at 11:33 AM
  • ER you can tell your no longer living in Saline county.Just take a look Obama only carried urban counties where you now reside.Us country folk aint so easily fooled by the "pied piper"

    -- Posted by GOCHIEFS on Fri, Nov 7, 2008, at 1:19 PM
  • OK!?

    -- Posted by er on Fri, Nov 7, 2008, at 1:54 PM
  • Go Chiefs,

    I'll bet you even voted twice for Bush. Thanks for nothing.

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Nov 7, 2008, at 3:15 PM
  • Go Chiefs...

    Obama carried plenty of "rural" counties across the nation...it's not just urban counties where he won!

    And even if it was, since it's the overall popular vote in a state that determines who wins the electoral votes, what does it matter if they are in an urban area or in a rural area? Since the whole state of Missouri was only won by a couple thousand votes (5,859 at last count), seems to me the state was pretty evenly split (and in Saline County as well, with only a 252 vote difference!)

    -- Posted by koeller77 on Fri, Nov 7, 2008, at 3:32 PM
  • er - I want to clarify that your entire post was not directed at me because if you read my post, I am the one who pointed out the correct title of President Elect Obama. Just want to make sure you saw that. As for the chip on my shoulder or you telling me to calm down....I am very calm with nothing on my shoulders. As for the smears against any and all politicians, even supporters who repeat the negative issues and lies are spreading the "junk" and doing more harm. Directing people to links as you did with "editorandpublisher.com" is the best defense and the best argument. Talk is a waste of time because many times people only hear and comprehend what they want to believe anyway. I for one feel that we as Americans should support the new Administration as best we can whether we voted for him or not. He's got a lot to deal with.

    -- Posted by Air Force Wife on Fri, Nov 7, 2008, at 5:12 PM
  • GOCHIEFS- Were you aware that Obama won in Iowa? What urban areas are in Iowa again? There is more to America than Missouri (as pointed out earlier, where McCain narrowly won in). Just go ask Uncle Jesse. He'll tell you.

    -- Posted by er on Fri, Nov 7, 2008, at 5:32 PM
  • Many of the people who were gullible enough to believe all the outrageous lies and distortions that were being circulated about Barack Obama actually chose to believe them because it gave them an excuse not to vote for a black man without having to admit that they were really racists at heart.

    -- Posted by Ridgeway on Fri, Nov 7, 2008, at 5:48 PM
  • i miss marshall and go owls and vikings

    -- Posted by jamesjr1971 on Fri, Nov 7, 2008, at 7:54 PM
  • Missouri voted the same as Arkansas in the presidential race. Can you be more out of step than that?

    -- Posted by raysfan on Fri, Nov 7, 2008, at 8:09 PM
  • Well, commish, I can easily think of one state more out of step.

    -- Posted by Slater on Fri, Nov 7, 2008, at 9:31 PM
  • i voted for mccain and i think we made the wrong choose

    -- Posted by jamesjr1971 on Fri, Nov 7, 2008, at 10:09 PM
  • Also, since I've been ruminating for a while on the aftermath of the election, I want to say a thing or two in defense of Air Force Wife, not that she needs me to defend her, and not that I'm implying anyone has been unfairly critical of her statetments.

    Even though I don't go so far as to accuse someone of being unpatriotic for not precisely carrying out the standards when recognizing our flag as the situation warrants, I see nothing offensive about AFW's attempt to educate us with the proper etiquette. Maybe it's time that our country began using one set of rules.

    As to her bitterness, she's said on more than one occasion that, in spite of her disappointment regarding the outcome of the election, she intends to do whatever she can to support the incoming adminsitration in its effort to resolve the problems facing our nation, and she even called on the rest of us to set aside our idealogical differences and work for the common good of the country.

    I know her feeling is the same as what the rest of us feel, and as Missy expressed it so succinctly the other day, that all of us must work together if America is to regain its prominence and admiration among the nations of the world.

    This may sound superficial, but all of us know it's true, so it's just a matter of deciding how serious we'll be when the time comes.

    -- Posted by Slater on Fri, Nov 7, 2008, at 10:17 PM
  • James Jr., nobody is faulting you for the way you voted, or for your feeling about the wrong person being elected (as long as you believe for the right reasons that he's the wrong guy).

    You may very well be surprised to learn that Obama is much more central-thinking than most people realize.

    The truth of the matter is that there's very little difference between the philosophies of both parties. The big difference is in the way their members approach the job.

    -- Posted by Slater on Fri, Nov 7, 2008, at 10:41 PM
  • Air Force Wife,

    I Salute you and your family for your service to these United States of America.

    I did and still do live in Illinois. As you probably know, you would have to look long and hard to find a state with as many problems as Illinois has.


    The results of President Elect Obama's works and deeds will determine if it was the "smarter" general population that elected him. Let's hope it was. Regardless, he is "our" President for the next four years.

    -- Posted by pressman on Fri, Nov 7, 2008, at 10:43 PM
  • All I can say is, this couldn't have happened to two more honest people:


    -- Posted by Slater on Sat, Nov 8, 2008, at 2:52 PM
  • Congratulations at your awesome showing at State Cross Country today Katie Wells. You are sure to make a lot of people in Marshall proud! WTG girl! You are loved by many. We are all proud of you.

    -- Posted by get a clue on Sat, Nov 8, 2008, at 10:12 PM
  • pressman and Slater: Thank you.

    I am saving the comments from the past couple months into a document and in 2012 will read it to see if the people who curse our current administration will be making the same comments about the Obama Administration. Odds are that a great number will. That's just politics and government.

    -- Posted by Air Force Wife on Sun, Nov 9, 2008, at 8:19 AM
  • OKR, here's a story to go along with your recollection of the war's end in 1945. :)


    -- Posted by Slater on Mon, Nov 10, 2008, at 12:32 PM
  • I just wanted to share something nifty that a friend told me about. I had a question the other day about a song, and my friend told me to ChaCha it! I asked my friend what was that and he told me just text the question to ChaCha or 242242 and they will answer it. I asked how much it costs? He told me it is free, they do limit your question to 20 a month, but you can get free weather, trivia, and stuff unlimited. I did some research about the place, and it is legit and I wanted to share it with my Marshall Family.



    -- Posted by riclin1 on Mon, Nov 10, 2008, at 11:08 PM
  • -- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, Nov 11, 2008, at 6:54 AM
  • GOD's blessings to us all


    a sincere "Thank You" to our Veterens.

    -- Posted by nomad on Tue, Nov 11, 2008, at 12:01 PM
  • notgvnasht,

    You are so disrespectfull to be calling McCain a looser on Veterans Day. Very unpatriotic of you. But then, I guess we've got a lot of that to look forward to for the next 4 years from liberals.

    It's been a week already..move on...

    -- Posted by MrsAKGrizzly on Tue, Nov 11, 2008, at 3:48 PM
  • NanaDot - where did the topic of being personally responsible come from? FYI, I am responsible for things I can control. I am not a politician so don't blame me for the mess. The mess we're in now goes back more than 8 years so when you start preaching personal responsibility, look farther. I refuse to argue this any more. The election is over, those hoping for McCain should stop whining and those hoping for Obama should stop gloating. Move on would include cleaning up the mess. You can't change history so get over it, learn from it, and move on.

    -- Posted by Air Force Wife on Wed, Nov 12, 2008, at 9:42 AM
  • Airforce Wife- you responded to me last week with the following 'advice'. "Talk is a waste of time because many times people only hear and comprehend what they want to believe anyway." and that posting my link was the only communication that I need to make. However, you have done nothing but respond to every post with YOUR views. It's like your either preaching or 'instructing' others how they should behave in these posts. I suggest you take your own advice and remember that talk is a waste of time because many times people only hear and comprehend what they want to believe anyway. Funny how it's ok for you to do but not for the ones that want to express their views.

    -- Posted by er on Wed, Nov 12, 2008, at 9:48 AM
  • Eric Crump: How come when I called the Bush administration 'morons' you deleted my post but when Airforce Wife types 'damned', referring to another blogger's attitude, it isn't deleted? I suggest you go back and read my deleted post, if possible, and see where it is offending someone in these posts as opposed to her actually referring to one of the writers. It was in the article with the Valley students celebrating their president elect's victory.

    -- Posted by er on Wed, Nov 12, 2008, at 9:54 AM
  • I apologize for using a word that apparently has insulted someone. Guess I heard too much of Rev. Wright and thought that had become accepted.

    er: I was complimenting you for putting a link to the facts for others to read. Guess you didn't read it that way. oh well. I'm not wasting any more time.

    -- Posted by Air Force Wife on Wed, Nov 12, 2008, at 10:52 AM
  • AFW- before you down play what you've been posting and place yourself as the victim, please read ALL of your posts and not just some. Besides referencing Rev. Wright in a backhanded compliment(who's clip was never played in full and was taken out of context by the media over and over), you took offense to me saying 'Fact is, people have been doing research on the man for the past 2 years and anything that's true, has stuck. Anything false, seems to fall in the laps of pushovers that will believe anything for the sake of their own cause.' Because I used the term 'the man' instead of 'him' or 'Mr. Obama' or 'President Elect Obama', etc...you decided this was disrespectful. This is splitting hairs and a reason for you to argue. Tell me, how is it beneficial that I replace 'the man' with any of those other labels? Why is this disgraceful to you? If I put in this post 'Please leave the woman alone', would you take offense because I didn't call you 'AFW' or 'the mediator'? You tend to state the rules in all of your post, even though you are in a minority now that does not dictate the way the majority feels. You actually have been for the past 4 years, but the terrorist scare tactic worked and we, as a country, felt it may be better to 'stay the course' while we were being lied to. When I mentioned that the general public is smarter than the conservatives that put out ads and false information about Obama, you considered yourself as that group I was talking about and, again, rebutted my statement. I was unaware that you are in the Republican marketing team that placed these ads on TV, radio, and the internet. The general public is smarter than THOSE people who paid for those ads like we (Americans- including you) are going to believe them without doing research on the issues. I do understand that you felt the link was beneficial and didn't need an explanation, but then why are you doing so with every statement that's on here? Nothing wrong with that, it is a free country, but don't give advice that you don't follow. It looks like you're trying to be the judge and jury when you do.

    -- Posted by er on Wed, Nov 12, 2008, at 2:41 PM
  • er: quoting you "you are in a minority now that does not dictate the way the majority feels. You actually have been for the past 4 years" then, "When I mentioned that the general public is smarter than the conservatives that put out ads and false information about Obama, you considered yourself as that group I was talking about" - you assumed me to be part of that group - not me. So, another quote from your posts "please read ALL of your posts and not just some." Also, what am I a victim of? - your words, your assumption, not mine.

    -- Posted by Air Force Wife on Thu, Nov 13, 2008, at 10:42 AM
  • Another Bill Balsamico blog post

    "Dear Friends,

    On 9/24/08 in the letter I sent out stating my displeasure (along with the majority of Main St.) with the possibility of a WALL STREET BAIL OUT, our outrage and concerns were ignored. Then on 10/04/08 in another letter I stated that now that the BAIL OUT PACKAGE was passed this would now become the first day of the next crisis. Since then it has become a daily routine for Big Business to stand in line for their HANDOUT. The latest is the Big 3 Auto Makers."

    Here is a link to the rest if it


    -- Posted by Gal66 on Thu, Nov 13, 2008, at 11:05 AM
  • For anyone interested, here's the Washington Post link to a review of some prospects for various agency heads, along with prospects for advisory and working groups members:


    -- Posted by Slater on Thu, Nov 13, 2008, at 11:39 AM
  • Thanks for the link, Gal66. Although I agree with Bill B. philosophically about government bailouts, he isn't offering much of a solution in this article.

    What would make more sense to me, at least, is for the automakers to file Chapter 11 bankruptcy petitions and establish a REASONABLE AND WORKABLE reorganization plan, then the government can loan them money to keep going.

    It's pointless to give an organization money to pay interest on its debts when that avenue nets nothing for anyone except even greater debt.

    People in charge of these organizations have either forgotten how to manage money or they never learned to begin with. The automakers have been living in the fog of escalating union contracts way too long. It's time they learned how to live within their means, like the rest of us have to do.

    -- Posted by Slater on Thu, Nov 13, 2008, at 12:33 PM
  • Notgvn, I'm not bashing unions, I'm just saying that the automakers have allowed the union to dictate their viability in today's economy.

    Generally, I support unions. They were necessary in the beginning, and they're becoming necessary once again, particularly when so many employers don't have much respect and loyalty for their employees.

    -- Posted by Slater on Thu, Nov 13, 2008, at 1:11 PM
  • Notgv...

    I agree with you that union people are hardworking and deserve to be paid for what they do, as well as deserve the benefits that they are given. However, I agree with Slater that they have gotten out of control - not only with automakers, but with airlines, too! Unfortunately, even though I am a highly skilled employee as well, there's no such thing as a "financial planner" union and the actions that *some* unions have taken have affected ME directly - in higher costs passed directly along to me.

    -- Posted by koeller77 on Thu, Nov 13, 2008, at 1:46 PM
  • I my opinion anyone that works under union contract is over paid and can't talk for themselves.

    Union wages are one of the main reasons cost's of a lot of products have gone thru the roof.

    -- Posted by Gal66 on Thu, Nov 13, 2008, at 2:13 PM
  • I on the other hand have worked in both union and non union jobs and have found that the people who use the union the most are the ones who never show up to work and are the troblemakers, I have never needed a union steward to help me out to keep my job. I am on time, only miss work if there is an emergency (1 day in the past 5 years)and I do my job like I am suppose to I do not need a union steward in order to keep my job and the union dues are money that could be going toward food or gas. Just my opinion.

    -- Posted by litlmissme on Thu, Nov 13, 2008, at 3:57 PM
  • AFW- Are you kidding me? You cannot be serious. Again with the arguing over words you are saying. Honestly, read all of your posts because I'm getting these straight from them. This is you: "So please don't put me in a category of conservatives who are less intelligent than the general American population. Even the conservatives are Americans." You go on to say in the next post, "The general population comment was referencing er who insinuated that I am a conservative and not as intelligent as the general population." Do you still think I am the one that put you in that group? Those are your words, not mine. I was never talking about you here- yes, you assumed I was for some unknown reason. I was clearly talking about the people that put out smears of our President Elect. In your last response, you used a quote of mine out of context. I do include you in a minority group that does not feel Obama can do the job. You want everyone to check back in 2012. Yes, you are a minority. Most of us feel he'll do soooo much better than the past regime. This quote has nothing to do with the previous group that provided a smear campaign. It has to do with a small amount of Americans that feel we are now doomed. Do you have several people writing these posts under the same username? For someone that isn't wasting anymore time, you just did again. For someone who believes I should only include links and not discuss/explain them, you have spent much time on arguing issues that will never be of any importance. Again, why is this OK for you to do and not everyone else? At least everyone else isn't writing like they have multi personalities. What are you a victim of? Exactly, nothing so quit acting like it. Everything most people have wrote in response to you have been their opinions of your posts. You write outlandish claims and people will respond so quit with the 'but I was only complimenting you' bit. I have never needed a compliment so bad as having someone in a blog telling me their rules of responding to others by 'writing less' when they write- more. Complimenting is not telling someone how they're more knowledgable because they lived in the same state as a senator. Apologies are not sincere when they are made then sarcastically referring to another person to make it OK. This is what I mean by you making yourself a victim. That's an 'I'll just take my ball and go home' attitude when someone calls you out. And all the while, you didn't really go home, you had to make one more response- even though it's better to talk less. Any more clearer?

    -- Posted by er on Thu, Nov 13, 2008, at 4:03 PM
  • litlmissme you nailed it right on the head

    -- Posted by Gal66 on Thu, Nov 13, 2008, at 4:29 PM
  • Slater, In your remark about the big three automobile manufacturers You said, "The automakers have been living in the fog of escalating union contracts way too long. It's time they learned how to live within their means, like the rest of us have to do.

    The automakers have dozens of six figure specialist who manage employee payroll and benefits. I worked at Chevrolet during the summer of 1967. I received $5.26 an hour with two ten minute work breaks and a 26 minute lunch break. While I was at my work station the line turned out 56 1/2 vehicles an hour. My benefit package included full employer paid health care (Blue Cross and Blue Shield) and one week paid vacation.

    The workers bargained collectively for the pay and benefit package that they receive. Believe me those costs were built into the price of the vehicles that they made. One of the existing problems that General Motors faced was the pensions they had to be pay for the living retirees who had worked there 30 years. This too was a part of their collective bargaining agreements.

    This year General Motors transferred the pension cost to the United Auto Workers Union to manage these benefits to clear their books of these liabilities.

    The biggest problem that the automakers failed to meet was competition from the transplanted automakers who have state of the art facilities and have developed a loyal customer base because of the quality of their vehicles, manufacturing efficiency, and no pension costs because their employes haven't retired yet.

    Another problem with the big three was not to recognize the changing market that favored the other automakers.

    Inevitably, the more automakers that you have reduces the market share of the existing automakers.

    As far as the union workers living within their means as far as I know I have never met anybody that lives within their means unless the wealthy.

    I don't think you are bashing union workers, but respect them for their courage for demanding a living wage.

    -- Posted by John Q. on Thu, Nov 13, 2008, at 7:38 PM
  • Smokin' Cheetah, during my construction years I had two union eight man traveling work crews. On more that one occasion I was informed that I would have to pay the prevailing rate (Bacon-Davis). I told the general contractors that my workers wouldn't work at the prevailing B-D rates because that would require them to take a cut in pay. I you know of any construction projects for the state or federal government check what the prevailing rates are. There are unlicensed, uninsured, non-union contractors in the Marshall area who pay more that the B-D prevailing rates.

    -- Posted by John Q. on Thu, Nov 13, 2008, at 7:48 PM
  • John Q., evidently I'm guilty of not speaking directly. Earlier I said the automakers have not spent their money wisely, along with having been in a fog of ever-higher labor contracts, leading to poor decision-making, self-delusion and greed regarding the kinds of vehicles produced (once, when asked why they don't make vehicles with better fuel mileage, the response was that the public didn't want them). These factors led me to follow my earlier comments with an opinion the automakers, not the union workers, need to learn how to live within budget.

    In the late 60s, maybe around 1967 or so, the federal government, during a concession to the automakers about emission standards, told Detroit to begin taking care of itself - maintaining its infrastructure, producing more fuel-efficient and pollution-free engines, etc. etc. Now, 40+ years later, Detroit is asking for help to do these very things that they were ordered to do way back when.

    I can see no reason why the taxpayers should have to be responsible for their mismanagement and poor judgment. Where does all this stop? It has to stop someplace.

    The bankruptcy laws are kind to organizations which demonstrate a genuine willingness and expertise to save their companies and all the jobs that may be affected. It won't hurt a thing for GM and Chrysler to face the music and tighten their belts. The workers will have to concede some benefits, obviously, but having a job that might not be as cushy as before will certainly be better than not having a job at all.

    Incidentally, when Chrysler was taken over by the investor group, the first thing they said they were going to do was to reduce the numbers of models and brands that were being produced. I don't see any evidence of that happening. What I've seen is that they've hired some guy as the head knocker who doesn't have any automaking experience whatsoever, and apparently has been one of the first in line for a handout.

    I feel sorry for the working people who are caught in the middle of all this utter nonsense of gouge and greed. I DON'T feel the least bit sorry for the corporations who had concern only for what they could gain monetarily.

    To top it all off, it appears that most of the clucks in Congress have so little real understanding of economic principles that it's no wonder money is being thrown around indiscriminately.

    I've cleared up the misunderstanding about which side of the ledger I was meaning, so I'll stop ranting for now. :)

    -- Posted by Slater on Thu, Nov 13, 2008, at 8:37 PM
  • Cheetah, I like your public housing project example. That's the way it works. My brother operated a mechanical contracting business in Columbia for many years, and he told me that he was forced to use union labor, so what he did over time was to pick out the best from the pool and put them on his payroll. He said as long as he was having to pay the going rate, he'd at least have control over the quality of his workforce.

    -- Posted by Slater on Thu, Nov 13, 2008, at 9:31 PM
  • Cosa Nostra,

    Excellent point. Let's not forget that those spiffy new meters will undoubtedlly put those who read meters out of work. If we have to have a rate increase I would rather see it go to keep those people employed as opposed to buying some fancy meters.

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Nov 14, 2008, at 6:55 AM
  • i'm sure there is another side of this story, so please voice if you know what happened, as to all my children have attended, heck growed up thier and always have had a great time and have had for many years, as to i have lived here all my life and hot wheels has always and still is 1 of the only place's kids have to go in this town, it always seems that people are quick to cry race, remember where all supose to be equal, so maybe the new black president will stop this racial thing, rich you always have and seem to be a good man, so rich stay proud of what you do for the kids of this town, i think most everone will agree and we got your back, stay strong !!!!

    -- Posted by gokinser11 on Fri, Nov 14, 2008, at 11:24 PM
  • With regards to the comments about the skating rink. As a former long time skating rink employee. I have had the pleasure of working with Del and Dorthy Sander as well as working for Rich and Rise' (sorry if I flubbed the spelling). I would like to point out that working at the skating rink is a tough job at best. The work is not so physically demanding as it is mentally demanding. For an adult, the time you work there is often when you have spent 40hrs. on your full time job and you are tired. You are at the end of your week, and the young people are at the beginning of their weekend. Full of energy and ready to blow off a little steam. You try to be bright and cheerful, when all you really want to do is to sit down for a few minutes of peace and quiet. Now, I don't agree with many of the things that I have seen Rich do, or the way that he has treated employees, let alone customers, children and adults included. I have witnessed him yelling at kids for misbehaving and I have seen him follow kids outside while berating them the whole time. The rink is not nearly as clean as it once was. The North end of the bench area is piled with clutter the last time I was there anyway. On a positive note, that used to be a trouble spot for kids trying to get away with something. The D.J. booth looks like a train wreck with all the clutter underneath it. In my opinion, I don't think Rich is the best suited to be in the skating rink business, but if he can afford the payments, lease, or rent. I guess it is his to do with as he pleases. I haven't taken my kids there for sometime. So if you want to hit him where it hurts, don't take your kids there. Or,,, go to the skating rink with your kids and that way you can see for yourself. What is really needed is for more parents to spend more time with their kids and then you can be there to reprimand your kids if needed, or to come to their defense. Parents can get in free unless you want to skate, I think. Oh, and bring ear plugs. It's loud, and of course, I'm to old.

    -- Posted by big3fan_62 on Sat, Nov 15, 2008, at 1:05 AM
  • Seems to me that no one wants to watch their own kids anymore. It says Family Skate Center because it is for the family. It isnt so you can dump your kids and have a cheap babysitter for the night. I remember being a child and my family actually going and skating. If your child is a "problem" and you arent there supervising your child then the person in charge may discipine your child anyway they seem fit within guidelines. This person was not beating your child. A well mannered child wouldnt have been horsing around, they would have been doing what they went to Hot Wheels for, to skate. If all the kids out there are bad why are you letting your child go without you being there? Seems to me that would fix the problem or not let your child go at all. Just because the others are bad doesnt justify your own child being bad.As far as racism, it goes both ways and reverse discrimination is bad as well.

    -- Posted by cj2010 on Sat, Nov 15, 2008, at 6:12 AM
  • I was at the skating rink last night with my own children. I saw everything, I'm sorry your child didn't tell you everything. The owner did NOT step in to the problem, till she was AWFUL with his staff. Your child's language was that I had never seen before in a young lady. The owner didn't chase her out. He asked her to sit down and SHE is the one that choose to leave. Your child change a lot of facts of the evening.

    -- Posted by holdon on Sat, Nov 15, 2008, at 9:57 AM
  • you are right on cosa nostra!! is there a plan of action for spending cut backs for mmu? or do we just PAY!! PAY!! PAY!!

    -- Posted by marshallite on Sat, Nov 15, 2008, at 10:11 AM
  • I myself was there with my children last night also. I have been there many times with my children and see the way that the owner speaks to children who are out of line. As a parent it concerns me and this is why I choose to stay with my children while they are skating. While it is a skating rink, more children opt to socialize instead of skate. It is a place for them to hang out too.

    I observed this situation you all are speaking about and it was blown out of proportion on both sides. Yes, the young lady over reacted and was totally out of line. However I seen the owner follow her outside. I overheard several comments he made to her which were unprofessional and not necessary. I understand this is his establishment,however when he acts like the children,it makes you wonder who is really in charge.

    -- Posted by beachbound on Sat, Nov 15, 2008, at 10:22 AM
  • Cosa Nostra, does the Marshall utility have to submit rate changes to Missouri Public Service Commission for approval?

    Maybe the citizens who oppose arbitrary rate increases could protest to the PSC, unless it doesn't afford consumers the opportunity to voice their side.

    Comparing the rate structures of the two coasts to Saline County is absurd, to say the least.

    It sounds like a simple case of wanting to recover the expense of buying new meters.

    The water company here in San Antonio raised the rate to "upgrade the infrastructure," but immediately before the increase, it spent $44 million refurbishing a building so it could move its offices from a perfectly good location. The head guy bought himself a new desk for $4,500. to go in his new office.

    So many public servants these days seem to have a total distain for the consumers who support them.

    -- Posted by Slater on Sat, Nov 15, 2008, at 11:10 AM
  • It is my opinion that children should be accompanied by their parents at the skating rink and any where else that parents choose to "dump" their kids. A great example of that is the movie theater some times that place is like a zoo the children are terrible and not a parent in sight. If you want to be a parent then BE A PARENT and teach your children to respect others and the property of others. Disipline your own kids and don't force business owners to step into your role as the parent.

    -- Posted by litlmissme on Sat, Nov 15, 2008, at 4:51 PM
  • Here's the URL for Missouri Public Service Commission's "snapshot of what we do."


    Obviously, I'm not an expert, but a quick read of this indicates MMU might not be in their area of coverage.

    -- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sat, Nov 15, 2008, at 5:45 PM
  • Comments by Palmtrees deleted at the request of the user.

    -- Posted by Eric Crump on Sun, Nov 16, 2008, at 10:26 AM
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