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Speak Out [politics] October 1 to December 31, 2011

Saturday, October 1, 2011

This forum is for discussing political issues -- local, state, national or international. The same standards of behavior apply as are spelled out on our home page in the introduction to Speak Out.

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Eric Margolis, one of the last real Republicans on 'Republican Hicks and Holy Rollers', also quotes Sinclair Lewis 'When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross'. http://www.ericmargolis.com/political_co...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Dec 31, 2011, at 9:51 PM

Yeh CWilli it's been going on for a long, long, time. Since the founding of our country the haves, have oppressed the have nots. In fact one must pause to wonder if it ever stopped, even for a moment.

Are you familiar with Howard Zinn's "A People's History of The United States"? It is an eye opener.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Dec 31, 2011, at 5:52 PM

Thanks rr3, uncanny huh?

1.eerie: too strange or unlikely to seem merely natural or human

2.keen: unexpectedly accurate or precise

However, you leave me in a quandary as to what you meant. Knowing your predilection I am betting on 1. above. Should I frame that One above? ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Dec 31, 2011, at 5:43 PM

Article from St. Louis American - :Assault on Voting Rights".

http://www.stlamerican.com/news/local_ne...

-- Posted by CWilli on Sat, Dec 31, 2011, at 9:52 AM

"That's the problem with history, it repeats its self."

--Clarence Darrow

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/30/opinio...

-- Posted by Smart Dog on Sat, Dec 31, 2011, at 8:54 AM

Well bless your liberal atheistic heart okr from saving us from that BEFORE Christmas. Your consideration is uncanny. Thank you.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Dec 31, 2011, at 4:18 AM

I saved this link until after Christmas because I didn't want to besmirch Christmas with these images. ;)

Ayn Rand Christmas cards. http://www.internetweekly.org/2011/12/ca...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Dec 31, 2011, at 1:35 AM

Yep, News. Obama, and Vice President Hillary Clinton.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Dec 30, 2011, at 5:19 PM

Oklahoma Reader

Yeah and face it, despite the circus...which is rather amusing to watch unfolding from an offshore perspective...we all know Obama is going to win hands down. I don't support him at all. I don't like him. I won't vote for him, but a lot of other folks who also don't like Obama can't help but look at the Republican "candidates" and realize...we have no reasonable or viable alternative to Obama in the 2 major Parties. And that is why we need stronger support for 3rd parties. Still, let's face it, Obama will have a 2nd term. I just hope he will stop his warmongering, murdering of Americans, and his never ending tendency to give the teaparty Republicans every evil thing they want.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Dec 30, 2011, at 2:31 PM

A bunch of clowns, nine, or so, have squeezed into a little old car that has seen better days, and has four flat tires. It is a vehicle that most folks think is going nowhere. They are traveling across Iowa in winter to drum up business.

The circus in which they participate has grown stagnate. The public, as a whole, not only doesn't take their craft seriously, but no longer even think they are funny. In fact things have turned rather ugly, to the point that the majority of folks hurl insults, and worse, whenever the circus, and its clowns are mentioned. Surveys indicated that only around ten percent of the people think that they even know what they are doing, and many actually think they are doing nothing.

The clowns know that a minority of the folks in Iowa would at the least come out to see them, especially because they are among the last remaining people anywhere who have any interest in their particular circus. To rev up response they decided they would ask those loyalists to pick out a special clown from among their group of nine as best clown to represent their circus in the run for national clown in chief.

At each stop they tumble out of the car stumbling and prat falling as they go. Some specialize in saying really stupid things, knowing that these loyal special spectators like stupid, and have shown in the past that it is the one thing that is sure to get the vote of their sort of people, not only in Iowa, but across the nation.

The only distaff member of the clown corps wished Elvis happy birthday on the anniversary of his death, an over the top, desperate gamble to establish once and for all, that she was the stupidest of clowns. Pundits observed that her tactic was an utter failure because the Iowan minority involved in the contest, and weaned on Fox News, didn't get her mistake. She received no dumb points for that one.

Another is famous for his statement "I have no problem with homosexuality. I have a problem with homosexual acts." That registered high marks for stupid with those folks of the challenged caucus. One serious fellow was heard to say "I think that Rick Insanitorium feller has got my vote. He reminds me of my neighbor Billy Bob. He's the kinda guy you can laugh with, and have a beer with."

So, on, and on this insignificant madness continues. We will know in a few days who a minority of the voters of Iowa, a group to the right of eighty percent of the American voting populace thinks should be Clown in Chief.

The only thing more ridiculous than this scenario as it plays out, is the psuedo gravitas that our national main stream media pretends to afford it. Actually they are just copping to a good thing, a good thing for the MSM that is. Where else would they find kooky reality television, an American addiction, that they do not have to pay the participants, nor production costs. They are laughing all the way to the bank.

Soon the "Iowa Primary" will be forgotten. Open primaries, that is those open to Republicans, and Independents, will give us, in short order, a better understanding as to who a significant portion of the citizenry will choose as the Republican nominee for President to challenge Barak Obama.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Dec 29, 2011, at 11:46 PM

Oh I am still here OKR,

Thanks for asking mate.

I had a pretty good Christmas. I got socks. I asked for them lol. Heck, I needed them, and not just any socks...white-cotton tube socks -- the World's best fitting, softest, most comfortable socks!

Lately, I have been busy planning another trip to the Outback. I am leaving for Bre later on this month to look at some business properties there. We like that town. I won't be driving the Great Australian Outback Super-Highway again though. Instead I will be going half way by rail..1st class of course. I like the Country Link Railways here in Australia. They are comfortable and they have both a pub car and a restaurant car for convenience. The other half of the trip I will be going by RTA Coach. The coach service is part of the public rail service. Its what they do when you reach the end of the track. They ship ya by bus lol. However, the Coaches are also comfortable and have all the basic facilities one might require on the 6 hour trip between Dubo and Brewarrina. I plan to get some great photos and will be posting them at my facebook photo site at:

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a...

(you must be logged in to facebook to view the photos before you put click on the link).

I plan to get some better photos of the various places on my way to and through the Outback. I was unable to get many photos of the wilderness here the last time I went up there because I was driving...and driving the treacherous Great Australian Outback Super-highway takes all the driving skills this driver has. But this time I will be a passenger with a big fat window, a great view of the scenery, and my camera at the ready. I will be sure and post some photos of Dubbo too. Dubbo is the Gateway to the Outback here in New South Wales, and it is a splendid example of a bustling Western NSW city. I will also be getting some photos of Bre that I didn't have time to get during my last trip. I will post them when I get back.

So anyway, yeah I have just been reading the comments when I have had a chance and yeah I am still here mate lol.

Eric thanks for posting the poll results.

I voted for Ron Paul, but frankly, I don't see any candidate from either major party that I prefer. RP is not too bad. I think he is probably the most sincere candidate anyway, and if forced to, I guess I could live with a Ron Paul Presidency.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Dec 29, 2011, at 6:32 PM

The Iowa causes are just around the corner, and the presidential candidates are jockeying for position. Here's what MDN website poll participants think about the field:

Mitt Romney: 27.8% (74 votes)

Ron Paul: 27.1% (72 votes)

Newt Gingrich: 15.8% (42 votes)

Michele Bachmann: 9.4% (25 votes)

Jon Huntsman: 7.5% (20 votes)

Rick Perry: 7.5% (20 votes)

Rick Santorum: 4.9% (13 votes)

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Thu, Dec 29, 2011, at 11:55 AM

News you still out there, or did you celebrate Christmas so frenetically that you collapsed from heat stroke?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Dec 29, 2011, at 12:06 AM

Thanks ND, and welcome back. I must admit that I had fun creating it. If anyone had been watching as I thought, then wrote, then thought again, pauses punctuated by audible chuckles, they would have thought to themselves "The old fool has finally lost it!" I do enjoy entertaining my selves. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Dec 28, 2011, at 11:38 PM

Like I said, cha-ching!!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Dec 28, 2011, at 10:46 PM

Believe something long enough it might come true?????

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Dec 28, 2011, at 10:14 PM

"A gentleman told me recently that he doubted I would vote for the Angel Gabriel if found at the head of the Democratic Party, to which I responded that the Angel Gabriel would never be found in such company. Speaking quite dispassionately, and simply as a historian, the Democrats can be trusted invariably to walk in the darkness even when to walk in the light would be manifestly to their advantage."----Teddy Roosevelt

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Dec 28, 2011, at 9:05 PM

I'm convinced Obama will get a second term.It's all we have now.If the Congress can be changed at the same time, maybe he could get some great things done for the People!A lot of things will have to be changed to make this System work for the People who made this Country. I get a sense that anyone that is Voted into Power gets the attitude they will do as they please! But the People are showing a little defiance to these Jerks,it may work,but i'm still sceptical about it! We till have to get the Term Limits on these SOBS!

-- Posted by Jo on Mon, Dec 26, 2011, at 11:15 PM

You say it's not a choice. I say it's none of your business.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Dec 25, 2011, at 9:03 PM

Next time a friend excitedly shows you an ultrasound picture of the baby they are expecting you need to look mortified and say "But surely, it's not yet a child, it's still a choice."

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Dec 25, 2011, at 7:55 PM

Let's get something straight here we have a government that takes money from the taxpayers to put more workers on the government payroll payed for by taxpayers and that helps the economy how exactly?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Dec 25, 2011, at 7:49 PM

I was thinking Ron Paul, and then read some letters thats out.He is a bigot. But i don't think i could Vote Republican, who ever he is! Just looking at them,(the leaders)remind me of when i was a kid sitting in the theater watching Movietone News, seeing Hitler and his Henchman on the Screen,same difference with the Republicans i see today! And they all puke me!! We need one term for all Politicians! And like Roosevelt as many as the President can Win,it's up to the People if he's doing his Job!

-- Posted by Jo on Sun, Dec 25, 2011, at 3:58 AM

The the best you got rr3yvo? And you call others pathetic?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Dec 24, 2011, at 11:26 AM

Well Obama is our 4th greatest president-just ask him.

http://www.breitbart.tv/obamas-our-4th-g...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Dec 24, 2011, at 10:02 AM

Pathetic, really pathetic!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Dec 24, 2011, at 9:54 AM

rr3yvo,

If you had shown as much contempt for the Bush admin as you do the current admin. I might give some creedence to anything you have to say. Until then......

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Dec 24, 2011, at 9:43 AM

We are a country 15 trillion dollars in debt but the president and the democrats can make an issue out of 40 bucks. Have a Merry Christmas everyone!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Dec 24, 2011, at 7:43 AM

Best Political cartoons of 2011. http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Dec 23, 2011, at 6:34 PM

"Boehner's office cuts off C-SPAN cameras as GOP takes verbal beating"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/12/21/bo...

Normally I would be surprised this could happen in a democracy then I remembered -- the United States is a fascist country.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Dec 21, 2011, at 4:19 PM

"Republican Congress ending 2011 with worst approval rating ever"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/12/20/co...

Yeah those teaparty republicans are so popular!

Oh me, oh my, what will we progressives do??

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Dec 20, 2011, at 4:27 PM

More on micro-efficiency, right there in Missouri no less. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/19...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Dec 19, 2011, at 6:45 PM

One thing is for sure, America is reaching a point of no return economically and democratically.

This election is not politics as usual but rather it is about which direction our Nation wants to go. Will they go the teaparty way? -- The road to economic ruin? or will they choose to break free from the Iron fisted control of the brutal, fascist teaparty and take a new road of possibiities? Please notice I used the word "choose." Its a choice. If the American economy and democracy cease to function then that is only a reflection of what the American People want. Its what they choose if that is where the next President leads them -- after all its they who are choosing who that President will be.

Its sad to watch the collapse of the greatest democracy the World has ever known and all at the hands of corrupt, Reaganist, teaparty politicians who value lining their own pockets with money from the 1% more than they do about our Nation.

Frankly, I see little hope for America's future. It would seem the Beacon on the Hill has dimmed and may be going out.

In fact, I have noticed here in Australia the people seem to think America has had it. I keep suggesting they remember the USA has survived tough times before and not to count Her out so quickly. But I do so all the while worried that they may indeed be correct.

The economic situation, the result of 30+ years of Reagan's failed Fascist economic policy and fascist political philosophy, is drastic. The facts that half the American People are now poor and that the middle class is disappearing fast are serious indications of an economy headed the way of Hati, Mexico, and the Philippines. Life in America 2 to 3 years from now may be very very different from anything most Americans have ever experienced in their entire lives. Poverty really hits home when one has not eaten for a few days.

I hope in the next election America will choose very carefully. The future of the Nation depends upon it.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Dec 19, 2011, at 4:36 PM

That would be a balance I could believe in News.

I am certain that a balanced third party ticket has a better shot now than at any time in my life.

I would like to see that ticket reversed though. It would be a heck of a lot less scary to me. Paul has too many Regressive qualities. With his name at the top of any ticket my vote would be largely one of desperate defiance of the status quo.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Dec 18, 2011, at 11:16 PM

rr3yv0

Exactly what was your point?

Also, what makes you think ND's comment supports your point -- specifically?

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Dec 18, 2011, at 6:00 PM

Oklahoma Reader

I strongly concur with your comments regarding Ron Paul.

We may very well see an independent run on his part in 2012. The 2 most likely candidates from which he would choose a running mate are Nader and Kucinich.

They would get my vote in a heartbeat.

And I think that ticket would win. There are lots of folks out there who are fed up with the Republicans and the Democrats.

I would definately support a Ron Paul independent bid just as long as the ticket is balanced with a civil libertarian from the left side of the field.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Dec 18, 2011, at 5:10 PM

Nana thanks for proving me right, AGAIN!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Dec 18, 2011, at 7:07 AM

I am in anguish concerning who I should vote for in the upcoming presidential election of 2012, or even whether I should cast a presidential vote. Here in Oklahoma I will likely only have the choice to vote for, either the Democratic candidate, or the Republican candidate.

I will not vote for Barak Obama as I believe he is weak, and an appeaser, incapable of leading us out of the morass in which we find ourselves. On the other hand the Republican candidates, a corps of creationist clowns, and puppets of plutocrats, save one, are even more repulsive.

The one Republican candidate that has any saving grace is Ron Paul. He has been consistently against our exercises in madness, i.e. that we can win the hearts, and minds of the people of countries by invading them, destroying their infrastructure, and slaughtering them. It is a preposterous madness that has consumed the minds of those who run our country for far too long. Perhaps I, and others like me should reward him for his steadfast position against foreign adventures.

Even though his policies would have us creating a void in world affairs as he believes in no foreign aid, and is something of an isolationist, those positions may have an upside. It may hasten to conclusion the currently untenable state of world affairs that would only be delayed by Obama, and the others. Maybe that house needs to fall, so that it may be reconstructed with a stronger foundation.

Additionally he is the only anti-establishment candidate in play. He is stronger on civil liberties than any of the other possibilities. I have not made up my mind, it will be awhile yet before all is clear. One thing for certain, I would not vote for him if he selects one of the others in the Republican field, or anyone else like them as his vice-presidential running mate. He would be dead in a year, and we would have another disastrous presidency with which to contend. What to do, what to do?

For those of you in most other states, it should not be too hard to find a third party candidate that fits your desires on at least some issues. Why not vote for that candidate, and send a message to Republicans, and Democrats that you have failed us. We all know that they have.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Dec 18, 2011, at 12:00 AM

And here is more evidence of the bone chilling fact that we committed murder to the point that it became a part of the process of conducting the war.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/15/world/...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Dec 17, 2011, at 10:52 PM

How we made an impression on the hearts, and minds of the Iraqi people, one that they can never forget. http://warisacrime.org/content/new-photo...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Dec 17, 2011, at 10:20 PM

News I should have spoken more precisely. His comment is on this website. He has a blog now, here. It is in the same column where Marcia, Kathy, and the regular bloggers post. It is on the left side of your screen.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Dec 17, 2011, at 9:19 AM

Oklahoma Reader

A link would have been helpful lol.

By the way, I should tell you that Senator Stouffer was a huge help to me and to the kids up on Montegue Hill. Back when they had condemned the twin Bridges there on Eastwood just as you leave the city limits, the police were enforcing a no treaspassing sign on the bridge and stopping the kids from using the bridge to get into town. Their only other possible choices -- the highway or a very long ride down a dangerous, hilly, snake-turny, gravel road to the other Bridge -- were not safe or viable. Some of the neighbors and me set out to rectify that. It was an uphill battle. Marshall said it was not theirs. The County said it was not theirs. The State said it was not theirs. I contacted a number of our local politicians and they were all helpful, but it was Senator Stouffer who stepped in and really did do something. He was genuinely worried about the kids and concerned about them getting safely into town. He took action and it would be difficult for me to have anything other than absolute respect for the man after that.

But I will look for the article all the same lol.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Dec 17, 2011, at 12:47 AM

Any of you still up, and around should take a peek at what state senator Stouffer has to say now on his blog...priceless. I could not resist a counterpoint to his point. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Dec 16, 2011, at 11:32 PM

ND, OKR...

...exactly!

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Dec 16, 2011, at 10:34 PM

I see a lot of R.U.S.H. here. What's that you say? Oh, Regressive unadulterated swill hurled.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Dec 16, 2011, at 10:21 PM

You guys still don't get it. Keep them poor and dependent and they will vote for you as long as you keep the entitlements coming and they will vote against anyone trying to take it away. You should thank Mr. Obama and the democrats for this it is their voting base. They want people to be poor. Why do they attack the private sector and uphold unions and keep expanding government? They have been doing it for years but Obama put it on steroids and we can see where it is leading us and you all seem to want more of it. They will get what they deserve and we won't have to worry about it. Good example is the payroll tax cut. Who will vote against it? People will not give it up willingly. Want poverty vote democrat! Oh and FDR extended the great depression much longer than if he hadn't interfered.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Dec 16, 2011, at 9:13 PM

Well then maybe folks should be a bit worried now that half the American Population is living in poverty.

After all, most of the other half are headed in that direction as well.

When will people wake up and realize Regressivist economic policies of the Tea Party and the war policies of the Tea Party are wiping out the American economy?

I guess some folks get what they deserve in the end, eh mate?

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Dec 16, 2011, at 4:15 PM

Nope News, not in my lifetime. In my past (what is destined to be the larger portion of my life) people in fact had less material goods. Yet there were not so many, so poor. Most adult males, most of the time, even those who were not "good", and "ambitious" workers had a job. While many women were homemakers, it was not a disparaged career. Wages were such that a one income household was sufficient to maintain a decent standard of living.

Please note that this is not some sort of homage to halcyon days of old, there was plenty that was wrong. Abject poverty, to specifically answer you, seemed not so acute, particularly among white folks. You would likely get a different answer from folks of color kidnapped into slavery in this country, and those remnants of indigenous peoples from whom we took everything.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Dec 16, 2011, at 11:47 AM

OKR,

I can't remember anytime during my lifetime that half our population was...well,...poor.

You are a couple years my senior, do you remember anytime when half of America fell into low income classification?

I am not sure that was the case in the first Great Depression, but it may have been the case then too.

The difference is we had FDR and his New Deal, Keynesian economic policies...which saved our Nation.

But frankly, it appears many Americans have decided poverty is just fine with them. Why else would the keep voting for Regressives?

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Dec 16, 2011, at 12:50 AM

Thank you News Across. If you disparage all the Progressive ideology, and you espouse the opposite, you are the opposite of a Progressive which is, as defined, a Regressive.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Dec 15, 2011, at 10:50 PM

No offense taken Anne D., and from what I have seen of you on the blogs I do believe your position was taken in the interest of fairness. I did not think your position was politically motivated.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Dec 15, 2011, at 10:44 PM

OKR, clearly, we have seen what the Regressives have to offer our Nation -- endless wars, permanent recession, and increased poverty. Just yesterday United States Census reported that current statistics indicate almost half of the entire American Population is living at or below the threshold of the middle class -- 1 out of every 2 people are living in poverty or real close to it with not much further to go.

"Census: 1 in 2 persons is poor or low-income"

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45678784#.Tu...

That is what we get from the Regressives, that and an autocratic, oppressive government is what we have already gotten from the Regressives, and now one can only stand back and watch in shock and horror as the Regressive controlled House of Representatives makes plans to shut down our Government, for the second time this year. If the economic policies of the Regressives continue, I think we may reach a point of no return.

That is why I am getting my immediate family out of the USA as fast as I can. Here we have a good economy and a democratic government (and socialized health-care...yeah!). Here in a free nation, the young people have at least some hope for a bright future. In fact, as a side-note, my youngest son just told me recently he plans to move here to Oz just as soon as he finishes his enlistment in the Navy -- him and his wife and my grandson, Tony.

I hope America will wake up and figure out that continually supporting Regressives will do nothing to make things better and will probably only make things much worse.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Dec 15, 2011, at 9:19 PM

By the way, Oklahoma-----I would have taken up for you too if the situation were reversed. All in the interest of fairness, of course. I'm not here to take political sides. I like reading about what others think and hearing both sides.

-- Posted by AnneD on Thu, Dec 15, 2011, at 8:43 PM

I have no interest in knowing if xray reads the Religion Board. I was merely pointing out that you reprimanded him for not reading something that you posted on another board when he asked the question on this one.

-- Posted by AnneD on Thu, Dec 15, 2011, at 8:18 PM

"LOL I still have to laugh at the suggestion that 500 billion would have appeased Iraq into stopping what they were doing and quit molesting the Kurds or anyone else for that matter they Sadaam decided to perform Genocide against. LOL"

That is the expected response from you X-Ray, with, in my opinion, your last century ideology. Laugh if you will, but it is the Chinese who are entitled to ROTFL at our antique, and muddled utilage of warfare to further empiricism. They meanwhile are quietly, and adeptly utilizing the methods that I spoke of to establish a dominating presence where they choose, including Afghanistan. It is so much cheaper, with stable, long lasting results.

We will be better off if, and when, we can get the out moded ideology of the Regressives put on the back shelf, and that of Progressives leading us back to sanity. LOL indeed!

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Dec 15, 2011, at 8:04 PM

Anne D: I, and others, have posted previously as to what we think should have been done. I merely selected that one because it was nearest in time to X-Ray's broadside. However as you are interested in fairness why not ask him if he reads the religion blog? I happen to believe that he does.

His bombast was typically long on hyperbole, and short on accuracy.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Dec 15, 2011, at 7:42 PM

mrxray

You may find our current and future discussions rather limited as I have no intention of responding to your requests and questions until you answer the questions I asked you.

After all, its not fair you demand of me what you yourself are not willing to do.

I await your answers.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Dec 15, 2011, at 4:04 PM

Oklahoma, I have been reading this board pretty regularly of late and didn't remember you posting that so I went on a search. Just to be fair to xray, you posted that on Speak Out Religion and not this Politics board. So maybe xray didn't see it because of that?

-- Posted by AnneD on Thu, Dec 15, 2011, at 3:22 PM

X-Ray you said "I am still waiting for answers from you liberal wackos... with your 100% accurate (In your opinion) 20/20 hindsight vision, exactly what would you do, where would you send troops, how would you defend the US from more Terrorist activities..."

I had posted exactly what you said you wanted a very few days before you said the above.

Can you man up, just once, and say I WAS WRONG? Of course not, and I am wasting my time pointing out that you were wrong. Due to your selective attention deficit, whatever it's source you won't know this was ever posted.ROTFLMAO!

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Dec 15, 2011, at 12:37 PM

xray,

Bush/Cheny lied about Hussien aquiring weapons grade yellow cake uranium from Nigeria for WMD's. Congress bought the lies and voted to invade.

When Joe Wilson wouldn't play ball and lie for the them they outed his wife as a CIA operarative. That's a treasonous act in and of itself and all that happened was that Scooter Libby was slapped on the wrist. Pathetic.

As of last Friday, the war in Iraq had claimed 4,487 American lives, with another 32,226 Americans wounded in action and that doesn't count the thousands upon thousands of dead Iraqi's who never did a damned thing to you.

They defended thier country as we would have ours.

Can you look into thier mother's eyes and tell her they deserved it? Could you do that Xray because that is effectively what you are saying?

Do you have the guts? I doubt it.

You cannot blame them for defending thier country. We invaded them, remember?

Billions and billions squandered and for what? The profit of a very few. Period. Shell,BP, Haliburton and Blackwater.

And folks wonder why people are protesting.

I love my country but words cannot express how ashamed I am of my government.

What part of this do you not understand and how can you continue to defend these people?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Dec 15, 2011, at 10:49 AM

LOL I still have to laugh at the suggestion that 500 billion would have appeased Iraq into stopping what they were doing and quit molesting the Kurds or anyone else for that matter they Sadaam decided to perform Genocide against. LOL

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Dec 15, 2011, at 3:23 AM

To break down that Senate vote further... 28 Dems voted FOR the resolution and only 22 Dems against.

Clinton, Kerry, BIDEN, Edwards,Bayh and Daschle voted FOR IT.

You all act as if Bush and Cheney did this all by their self and ignored Congress... LOL

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Dec 15, 2011, at 3:22 AM

as for those objecting to the Iraq war... the SENATE voted 77-23 to authorize Bush to invade Iraq in Oct 2002. THe house voted its approval 296-133. You act as if Bush and Cheney did this alone, of as if the Senate and House intell committees did not read the same reports as the President did... These were even bigger margins than Bush I got in 1991 to expel Iraq from Kuwait... strange Right?

Historically Sadaam ignore the UN, the UN security counsel and all efforts to resolve the Iraq situation that had been festering like an open boil since before 1991.

HEre some interesting aspects regargind England and Australia

"The U.S. administration argued that it had enough legal support for its subsequent military action, based on resolution 1441 as well as two previous Security Council resolutions: 678, which in 1990 authorized the U.N. to take military action against Iraq, and 687, which set the terms of the cease-fire at the end of the 1991 Gulf War. Administration lawyers said that because Iraq never lived up to the terms of the cease-fire, the use force was now valid.

In answer to a question in parliament, Great Britain�s Attorney General Lord Goldsmith issued a March 17th statement supporting the use of force against Iraq. The Australian Attorney General�s Department issued a memorandum on March 18th, also supporting the use of force against Iraq."

Spain supported this action as well as other nations

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-107pub...

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Dec 15, 2011, at 3:15 AM

news... you will have to provide background before I answer your question. Explain how YOU think that corporations are a person... I know the liberal talking points... but if you are going to argue this point then YOU have to provide exact details that substantiate how YOU think that corporations have personhood AND how that is bad.

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Dec 15, 2011, at 3:06 AM

news... as to your comments... I dont care about what you think of me either... but maybe you should stop YOUR silly thinking and change YOUR mind over to MY way of thinking... lol can you please tell me exactly what sense you made with that statement?

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Dec 15, 2011, at 3:04 AM

News... comparing UK and Irelands situation to that of the World and the Islam religion is like comparing hot pancakes and eggs and bacon to hard tack and frozen biscuits Nothing CLOSE to the same situation....

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Dec 15, 2011, at 3:02 AM

news... how about beliving like Harry Reid that absolutely NO rich person EVER creates a job, or maintains employees? OR Obama stating that he had visited 57 states with a few more to go? OR Biden telling Missouri's Representative to stand up... when he was wheel chair bound?

Bringing up mistakes and mistatements by people proves nothing Only that you are biased with no real free thinking of your own

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Dec 15, 2011, at 3:01 AM

anyone who claims OIL is the cause of all wars and evils in the world ignores the reality of the Islam religion and how they PUBLICALLY tell you they hate anything Western and want all Westerners dead..... I know, I know... appeasement is what you leftists want. Nanadot

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Dec 15, 2011, at 2:59 AM

OKR>.. LOL so you think that by giving Sadaam 500 BILLION dollars after he ignored 100s, if not 1000s of UN sanctions and rulings and mandates, would have suddenly changed Iraq's course of action? OR would they have acted like Hitler did when Europe tried to appease him and taken the money, grown stronger with more and more terrorists support and ignore the US desires?

wake up

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Dec 15, 2011, at 2:57 AM

Oklahoma Reader

Yes your suggestion would certainly have saved lives and our economy.

Xray should bare in mind also that the UN Nuclear Weapons Inspectors had been consistently pointing out that Iraq had no trace of any nuclear weapons program of any kind. As xray and his conservative bunch soon learned -- the hard way -- the UN was 100% correct. But of course, Bush had already intentionally lied to Congress and the American People and so clearly he knew it was all a ruse to go steal the Iraqi People's natural resources.

Conservatives could not be honest even if their lives depended on it!

Well. I sure hope xray and his conservative buddies are pleased with the mess they got our People into with their lust for war and oil.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Dec 15, 2011, at 12:57 AM

X-ray I don't know whether you read selectively, or it is that you have a selective memory, but the ground you asked us to cover, has been covered here more than once by those you most enjoy insulting. In case you are dealing with a failing memory, rather than what I supposed, I have included your comment as a reminder of what you said. Following that is a post I made not that long ago that is on point concerning your direct plea for an answer. I hope it clears your fog.

"I am still waiting for answers from you liberal wackos... with your 100% accurate (In your opinion) 20/20 hindsight vision, exactly what would you do, where would you send troops, how would you defend the US from more Terrorist activities...

NONE of you have ever come up with any sort of action... and we all know and understand from history that doing nothing strengthens the enemy, appeasement leads to more aggressive behavior by the enemy until you are too weak and have too many of your resources taken away to defend yourself. WWII is the greatest example of how appeasement and apathy leads to great destruction in the world

SO again... give me DETAILED description of how you would have responded to terrorist attacks against the US... Keep in mind you have none to very little of the top secret data and intell that were present at the moment of these attacks and the months afterward.

I dont care about opinion about past US policies all I care about is your answer as to what our response should have been.

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Dec 13, 2011, at 6:08 PM"

"Suppose instead of invading Iraq, at the cost of a million lives, and trillions of dollars, we had rationally considered the real problems the Iraqi government posed to us, what their real problems were, and gone to it with the following offer. We will help to protect you from invasion by Iran, We will give you five hundred billion dollars to restore you infrastructure, and assuage your other needs. In turn you must not continue the friction with the Kurds in your country, instead let them share equally. You must give up any desire for nuclear weapons, and nuclear power, using our largesse to instead build environmentally friendly sources of power etc. I believe that had we done that we would not be in our current dilemma.

Instead we did what we did at monumental cost to us, and Iraq, destroying the balance in the middle east as we were at it. Instead we engaged in what George W. Bush so unconsciously succinctly called it, a crusade.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Dec 9, 2011, at 11:35 AM"

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Dec 15, 2011, at 12:12 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJ1L4eeu5...

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Dec 14, 2011, at 4:28 PM

O'Reilly surprised to learn U.S. gov't. controls the military

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/12/14/or...

With video (dang my lyin' ears and eyes).

If a person bases their opinion on anything this dummy says then that person should not be surprised to get hammered by people who do know that facts (in this case, the fact is the U.S. military is governed and controlled by a civilian government -- not some separate "military government," as dummy Bill O'Reilly claims).

Ya know folks, its not real complicated. If your data is garbage going in, it will be garbage when it comes out the other side -- garbage in -- garbage out. If Bill O'Reilly is your source of information then you don't have any useful information.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Dec 14, 2011, at 3:15 PM

Hey xray,

Again, I know how much like the question and answer portion of the show, so let me probe your super-brain with this one.

Do you agree with Republican Leader Sarah Palin that Paul Revere road to warn the British that the Americans had firearms?

Or how about this one,...

...do you agree with Michelle Bachmann that natural disasters are caused intentionally by God to cause misery in America?

Inquiring minds want to know!

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Dec 13, 2011, at 8:27 PM

Wackos? Hmmm...I like the original better:

"right-wing, religious wacko"

...and there are some real good reasons we call the conservatives that, just take a good look at some of their "leaders."

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Dec 13, 2011, at 8:18 PM

xray,

Fine. You win. Let's just kill everbody. Feel better now?

BTW, If Jesse Jackson and Obama have indeed commited crimes then by all means we should prosecute them. I'm not sure where anyone on this board has ever suggested that a democrat get a pass on illegal activity. That seems to be your particular fetish/phobia.

That being said, can we finally stop the dance and indict Bush/Cheney? Iraq was illegal no matter how you decide spin it.

Best Regards,

Your friend the Liberal Wacko.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Dec 13, 2011, at 6:59 PM

Oh and xray,

I know how much you appreciate getting a response to your questions.

That is why I am sure you will want to answer the question I am addressing to you as soon as possible.

QUESTION TO XRAY:

Do you agree that corporations are "persons" and have all the same rights as you and me and any other natural born citizen?

If you answer in the affirmative, would you support a corporation as a Presidential candidate if that corporation was "born" in America, has been a resident for at least 14 years, had attained the age of at least 35, and which reflects your values and positions on the issues?

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Dec 13, 2011, at 6:52 PM

mrxray

As to how to stop terrorism, the answer to that is encapsulated within the historical record. As the UK demonstrated in Northern Ireland, the only way to permanently end terrorism is negotiation. Any other approach -- and especially your approach -- either does nothing to address the causation or in fact makes the terrorism much worse. Attacking, occupying, murdering, and torturing people in 3rd World countries does not make us popular mate, but it does make a lot of folks want to stop us -- and they don't mind dying as long as they can take us with them.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Dec 13, 2011, at 6:31 PM

mrxray

I am not interested in your opinion of me either way mate.

I will post news articles regardless of what you think of the articles or of the messenger who brought the link to you.

Really, maybe what you should spend your time on is reconsidering your positions, often based in factually incorrect assumptions rather than fact, and basically cleaning up your own backyard -- before you worry about mine.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Dec 13, 2011, at 6:26 PM

"ACLU sues Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker over new voter ID law"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/12/13/al...

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Dec 13, 2011, at 6:23 PM

nanadot... to your comment regarding the imaginary 1%.... if they own Congress exactly how is giving our federal government more and more and more control over every aspect of our life not giving that 1% more and more control over our lives? You say we need more and more government to fix things but then you say they are bought and paid for by the evil corporations.... just curious how you justify this in your mind.

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Dec 13, 2011, at 6:10 PM

I am still waiting for answers from you liberal wackos... with your 100% accurate (In your opinion) 20/20 hindsight vision, exactly what would you do, where would you send troops, how would you defend the US from more Terrorist activities...

NONE of you have ever come up with any sort of action... and we all know and understand from history that doing nothing strengthens the enemy, appeasement leads to more aggressive behavior by the enemy until you are too weak and have too many of your resources taken away to defend yourself. WWII is the greatest example of how appeasement and apathy leads to great destruction in the world

SO again... give me DETAILED description of how you would have responded to terrorist attacks against the US... Keep in mind you have none to very little of the top secret data and intell that were present at the moment of these attacks and the months afterward.

I dont care about opinion about past US policies all I care about is your answer as to what our response should have been.

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Dec 13, 2011, at 6:08 PM

what the f

Blog getting prison time also implicates Jesse Jackson junior and Obama.... but then the current DOJ is preventing fair treatment of the facts as they apply to Democrats ....

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Dec 13, 2011, at 6:04 PM

news... you get more and more and more and more and more radical with each post... it is mildly entertaining to watch you drift from reality

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Dec 13, 2011, at 6:01 PM

"Report: Boehner influenced Ohio gerrymandering on behalf of GOP donor"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/12/13/re...

Even in prison Republicans will vote for him and support him. They have no moral values.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Dec 13, 2011, at 2:58 PM

Oh and zeke, can a 5 year old child put up a defense against a fully grown man who is a professional boxer? The answer is yes!-- for a few seconds he could put up a defense.

Its a good analogy of what we did to Iraq and Afghanistan's armies. We wiped out all organized resistance pretty quickly. So yeah they were able to defend themselves...for a week or so.

The United States, once the beacon of democracy, is now an autocratic police state known for its bullying of much smaller, poorer nations in order to gain control of their natural resources and in the case of Afghanistan, to get that oil pipeline built.

But if you think that is something -- just wait till we get the bill -- a cost that will be paid for decades to come -- a huge cost.

One might think that by this time our Nation would have learned from past mistakes (Vietnam), but nope!! We are determined to destroy ourselves.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Dec 13, 2011, at 2:56 PM

zeke

Neither Iraq nor Afghanistan had a navy, army, or air-force capable of 1.) reaching the United States or 2.) getting past our coastal defenses (or anywhere close to our shores), nor did they ever threaten to do so.

The only way they were any threat to us was if we attacked them -- which we did. We invaded them, unprovoked and without any precedent.

The wars were/are unlawful under the Geneva Conventions and have almost wiped out our economy and any future our kids may have had.

In addition, we are now regarded by most of the World's nations -- including our allies, like my other country, Australia, -- as being as bad or even worse than fascist Germany, fascist Italy, and Stalinist Russia. Where we were once famous for our democracy, our freedom, and our support of human liberties and civil rights, we are now known for bullying smaller countries -- all populated by brown skinned people, torturing people, filling our prisons with political prisoners, ignoring international and domestic laws which prohibit many of the things we have done, murder, genocide, and heavy racism.

The real cost of these wars has not even yet begun to be paid yet -- but as a result of these wars we may have sacrificed the future of our Nation.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Dec 13, 2011, at 2:48 PM

are you saying that iraq and afghanistan couldn't defend themselves? ... not that i agree with the wars - the sooner we get out the better - but do you really think either of these countries were defenseless?

-- Posted by zeke on Tue, Dec 13, 2011, at 1:37 PM

"Russians stage mass protests against Putin"

http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/201...

What the article may fail to point out is that these folks are upset because the Russian People overwhelmingly voted for the Communist Party and Putin was stuffing ballot boxes -- some where stuffed before the polls even opened. The Communist Party gained 1/3 of all the seats of Parliament but the People are pretty sure the Communist Party actually won the election without question.

The Russians are very unhappy with capitalism. They want to restore the Soviet Union, and I have no doubt they will succeed. I welcome such a return for a number of reasons, but to me the most important reason is that nothing says "NO" to American imperialism better than a well Armed Soviet Union. We, the People of the World, need checks and balances to American militarism. If the Soviet Union had been around 10 years ago, we would probably would not have been able to invaded any 3rd World Countries that could not defend themselves against us. We would be at peace now instead of war.

There is a new day dawning. There is a new World coming, and it can't come soon enough.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Dec 10, 2011, at 2:28 PM

"Palestinian leader: Gingrich's comments 'the most racist I've ever seen"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/12/10/pa...

Gingrich's racist statements may fly well with the teaparty racist minority, but that racism won't fly well in the General Election.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Dec 10, 2011, at 1:47 PM

Rick Perry is exactly the kind of dummy we expect from the Tea Party voters.

My kids, when they were in 1st Grade, could easily name at least one Supreme Court Justice, but not Rick Perry. He could not name even 1. Also he made some rather nasty comments about our Founding Fathers. Apparently HE does not like the way they designed our Court structure, but then HE didn't found America nor did Rick Perry fight for American Independence (sorry Rick, but I think the Founding Fathers knew much better than you do what they wanted for the Nation THEY created). Such is not surprising from some Johnny-come-lately who cannot even name just one Supreme Court Justice.

No wonder he has been such a poor excuse for a Governor, and the fact that the Texans vote for him gives us all a big clue about the intellectual capacity of most Texans. No wonder that State is so screwed up.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/201...

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Dec 10, 2011, at 1:14 AM

Thanks ND. You set a high standard to emulate. :)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Dec 9, 2011, at 1:29 PM

What would be a more definitive name for the right wing in America who continue to cling to the appellation Conservative? They certainly don't want to conserve anything.

Nowadays they seem bent on returning us to the no holds barred, days of the Robber Barons. Survival of the fittest is their mantra. Remove regulations, do away with, or reduce federal income tax, privatize (gut) Social Security, on, and on. In summation they embrace a return to Social Darwinism. That is in no way twentieth, nor twenty first century Conservatism, which due to its absence from the scene in this century is yet to be defined.

They fume at Progressives, and scoff at everything Progressives stand for. In fact on almost every issue they occupy a political position the polar opposite of Progressives. In fact, and most would heartily agree, they are the opposite of Progressives.

The opposite of progressive defined, is regressive. Therefore, the only rational conclusion as to what they really are is the Regressives. Republican Regressives, The Regressive Movement, those phrases have a nice ring to them don't they, and all the more so because of their dead on accuracy.

In the future I will refrain from using the term Conservative, for it is but a ghost, a phantom, an apparition, not in any semblance of truth a presence in modern America. I hail those dead, or diminished Conservatives who no longer have a voice, and will not sully their memory by mentioning them in the same breath with the names of the clowns, cut throats, and connivers currently parading across the platform of the Pachyderms. REGRESSIVE, REGRESSIVE, REGRESSIVE!

For more information on this subject please read the Robert Reich commentary at the following link. It was the inspiration for my diatribe. http://robertreich.org/post/13567144944

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Dec 9, 2011, at 12:40 AM

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Dec 9, 2011, at 12:42 AM

"Newt Gingrich's sister: 'I'm voting Obama"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/12/08/ne...

With video, dang my lyin' eyes and ears.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Dec 8, 2011, at 3:26 PM

rr3yv0

Welcome back buddy.

...and thanks a lot for letting me worry about you. I thought something bad had happened to you. I am glad you are OK buddy, but listen the next time you take a vacation from posting please let your friends -- like me -- know you are OK. Seriously, I was pretty worried by your absence.

Good to have you back mate!

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Dec 8, 2011, at 2:11 PM

"You're a Mean One Newt Gingrich"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pla...

"It's Beginning To Look A Lot Like Gingrich"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcV4EaSEl...

I don't know about you folks, but I just love holiday music.

Enjoy and have a very merry Saturnalia!

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Dec 8, 2011, at 2:07 PM

"God does not believe in Rick Perry"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbrI3F7p6...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Dec 8, 2011, at 2:02 PM

Well, you have to keep in mind that Gingrich is polling well with the GOP base, not the general population. At least Blagojevich just got 14 years. That's a start. I wonder what Bush / Cheney will get?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Dec 7, 2011, at 5:01 PM

Can't Prosecute? Some more B.S.for the People to swallow! They do think we are stupid,i kind-a think so too!Look at all the Prosecutions that could be in Court right now.The deterrent factor alone would save us a lot of Money in the long run! It would be Money well spent! And the Flem -flam Man is back,Gingrich is as no account as you can get,and look he's back at the top of the Polls.Crime does Pay.This man should have been in Jail a decade ago! So are we nuts? I think maybe little.

-- Posted by Jo on Wed, Dec 7, 2011, at 1:43 PM

There is never the money for bed pans or books yet we always have plenty of bullets.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Dec 7, 2011, at 12:19 PM

I can believe you Deleted the "Quote" from Patty Myer, of Montana! It was a Profound Statement that everyone should have the Opportunity to read! The Language was a little harsh but nothing too shocking for grown Ups Censorship Sucks!What was the objectionable Part of the Story? Was it the Language or the content? You should be ashamed!

-- Posted by Jo on Wed, Dec 7, 2011, at 11:29 AM

rr3yvo said:

"After reading many post on here I guess it could be said that many have believed lies for so long that they can't recognize the truth. Just sayin....."

Sounds the me like you just described organized religion.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Dec 7, 2011, at 9:11 AM

They have been so corrupt for so long, they don't know how to do any good.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Dec 3, 2011, at 1:07 AM

After reading many post on here I guess it could be said that many have believed lies for so long that they can't recognize the truth. Just sayin.....

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Dec 6, 2011, at 10:06 PM

You know with all i've read about Politic.You know who the enemy? Most of us! What do People do sit around and listen too every crackpot that opens his Mouth,and believes it? take this Gingrich thief and Flem flam Man! Don't People remember how this Pig left his terminally ill Wife, and how he handled his job as Speaker.and now the s.o.b. is back running first in the Polls! My friends, there's somethings wrong with all of us, if this is the kind of People we want running our Country,and all Politicians are the same,from city Government right up to the Top office's! It's something else when you Investigate!

-- Posted by Jo on Tue, Dec 6, 2011, at 9:00 PM

No one will be Indited in the Mortgage Fraud & Wall Street until we the People, (as one) demand it not just Demonstrate on the Streets! Back them up with pulling your Money out of Wall Street, and putting it in Credit Unions! Take your Money out of their Hands,anyway possible. I did ,what little i have! All these indictments should have started with Bush, Cheney,and the rest! It would have set a tone with the rest of the Crooks!

-- Posted by Jo on Tue, Dec 6, 2011, at 4:18 PM

Thanks WTF.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Dec 6, 2011, at 12:07 PM

60 Minutes showed a couple of inside the mortage industry whistleblowers that have been completely ingnored by the justice department. Typical.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Dec 5, 2011, at 10:08 PM

Amen to all that News.

Nope WTF. Good one?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Dec 5, 2011, at 7:28 PM

So....did anyone see 60 Minutes last night?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Dec 5, 2011, at 7:31 AM

"Bachmann: Deport all undocumented immigrants"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/12/04/ba...

1.) How do you deport 11+ million people? What exactly are the logistics on that?

2.) Who is going to be paying the enormous cost?

3.) Doesn't the mass deportation of 11+ million people sound an awfully familiar -- perhaps the last step before a Republican "Final Solution" to the immigration problem?

Folks, I bet a lot of you are wondering some of the same things I am -- like why is it the USA sounds more and more like a fascist, NAZI police state?

Does this worry anybody over there or does it comply pretty much with the general direction the American majority support? Surely Bachmann's fascist policy proposals don't reflect even the mainstream Republican immigration policy support.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Dec 4, 2011, at 5:09 PM

What the f......

Exactly mate.

What the bill does is basically to establish martial law (martial law occurs when military courts and military law replace civilian courts and civilian laws) in the USA and whenever the right of habeas corpus is suspended.

I think it will have some Constitutional issues when it is tested in the Courts.

The Courts have ruled in past cases that the Congress can only authorize martial law in areas where there is no functioning civilian court (ex parte Milligan, 71 US 2 [1866]).

Never-the-less, the writing is on the wall, and it appears the USA has opted to move a bit closer towards the fascist police state the 1% and a few rednecks would prefer -- well so they think anyway.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Dec 4, 2011, at 4:08 PM

How long until the OWS protestors are labeled terrorists?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Dec 4, 2011, at 10:23 AM

I agree, NanaDot. Surprisingly little media frenzy over the defense bill provision you refer to. Here's a passage from the Washington Post story:

"In an escalating fight with the White House, the bill would ramp up the role of the military in handling terror suspects. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta and FBI Director Robert Mueller both oppose the provisions as does the White House, which said it cannot accept any legislation that "challenges or constrains the president's authorities to collect intelligence, incapacitate dangerous terrorists and protect the nation."

"The bill would require military custody of a suspect deemed to be a member of al-Qaida or its affiliates and involved in plotting or committing attacks on the United States. American citizens would be exempt. ...

"The legislation also would deny suspected terrorists, even U.S. citizens seized within the nation's borders, the right to trial and subject them to indefinite detention."

Chilling.

-- Posted by taxedpayer on Sun, Dec 4, 2011, at 8:03 AM

Jo

Exactly mate.

They have been so corrupt for so long, they don't know how to do any good.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Dec 3, 2011, at 1:07 AM

It should be each Individual ordering the Arrests, and making the Arrest, held responsible and not having to Pay with Tax Payer Money.it would be more affective? They are holding the Tax Payer Hostage.These People holding these Positions should be held accountable Individually.Just as Bush and his cohorts should have been dealt with!The same with the Politicians, Fraud & Perjury and taking things out of Context.there should be Consequences for that in my opinion!

-- Posted by Jo on Fri, Dec 2, 2011, at 1:05 PM

Oklahoma Reader

There is another expense you have not mentioned mate.

The cost of settling the multitude of lawsuits which are filed immediately upon release of anyone arrested for exercising their Constitutional right to peaceably assemble and present their grievances to the gov.

What happens is the city quietly settles out of court and usually its quite a bit of money involved. You will never know how much because of the non-disclosure aspect of the settlement, but the cost to the local tax-payers -- who pay the entire cost -- is enormous.

So in the end you folks get to pay for the Mayor and the police violating the rights of the American People. And you don't even know how much its costing.

But the fun part is yet to come.

This notion that we can settle public discontent by attacking protesters is completely illogical and cannot possibly succeed. Its a lot like trying to cure cancer using sugar water injections. Failing to attack the cause of the discontent, we doom ourselves to the violence and disorder that is soon to follow.

I will never understand why some folks like the Mayor there think they can help the 1% steal the wealth of America, stifle the American People's right to complain about it publically, and think it won't result in cities on fire -- even though that has been the result in every other similar struggle in modern history.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Dec 2, 2011, at 2:33 AM

"Why Republicans Embrace Simpletons and How it Hurts America", from Forbes.com. A painfully funny look at the funny farm of dolts, and goats that comprise the Republican field. http://news.yahoo.com/why-republicans-em...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Dec 2, 2011, at 12:40 AM

Tonight at eleven OWS-OKC gets das boot. This after a week of propaganda by the Regressive owned local media howling about how expensive it is to "allow" them to exercise their civil rights.

By that standard there should be no arrests. After all it is much more expensive to process, and imprison protesters, than to patrol, and provide porta-potties.

We shall see.

Here is an interesting link regarding cop-biased media. http://www.ct.com/blog/wtxx-the-media-bi...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Dec 1, 2011, at 8:58 PM

The National Defense Authorization Act sends a chill down my spine. We have become a nation of moles that never see the light, excepting during an occasional pop up, followed by a whack that sends us back into darkness more senseless than before.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Dec 1, 2011, at 5:34 PM

"What you need to know about the National Defense Authorization Act: Raha Wala explains the dangers"

http://current.com/shows/countdown/video...

I hope everyone takes a look at this. As ND pointed out, this is bad legislation and it threatens our civil liberties in a big way.

Under this legislation, any American citizen can be arrested and permanently imprisoned for life without any trial, without even speaking to an attorney, and without any Constitutional foundation.

Is that the kind of Nation our Founding Fathers Wanted?

Is that the kind of Nation we want to be?

Its time we answer those questions with a resounding NO!!!

As ND recently suggested, everyone should be up in arms and in contact with their elected representatives over this one.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Dec 1, 2011, at 3:48 PM

Jo,

I haven't heard of him but I plan to research the guy today and find out all about him.

As a general guide, the only way you could go wrong in the coming election would be to vote for a Republican.

The Democrats are not much better than the Republicans, but they aren't crazy. That is a difference that makes the difference for me.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Dec 1, 2011, at 3:01 PM

I was reading about this Rocky Anderson, Former Mayor in Utah. He has been trying to get on the Ballot for President with a Third Party,(The Justice Party) I've never heard of him before! Rachel Maddow had him on last nite.He has some good idea's. I'll have too find out more about him.If he's a Bible Thumper and can't leave that out of his Politic, ill forget him! News, Okla,Nana what do you know about him?

-- Posted by Jo on Thu, Dec 1, 2011, at 1:51 PM

War? What war?

...lol...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Dec 1, 2011, at 7:13 AM

I was standing in my garage tonight when I happened to look up to a shelf, and saw a box of very large trash bags. The picture on the side of the box was of one of the black bags, tied with a prominently displayed yellow ribbon. I reflected that it was the only place I had seen a yellow ribbon for a long, long time. The irony did not escape me.

Has it really come to pass that our interminable wars have gone on for so long that direct symbolic references to them are now absent, blown away like the dust of the dead that has settled unmarked in foreign fields? Has it come to pass that we not only indulge our proclivity for forgetting what has ended badly, but have now learned to forget what continues badly?

Are we not quickly stuffing reminders of our failures, our remorse, into black bags, like so many pieces of garbage, to be quickly removed before the stench can not be ignored?

How can something awful that continues, be so absent from our consciousness, that we see, in the absence of contemporary reminders, an unintended reminder, that causes us to reflect almost as if it was something that happened long ago. These wars in a large part, for many of us, now dwell in surreality.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Nov 30, 2011, at 11:59 PM

ND, Where ya been mate?

Nice to see you posting again.

I am very concerned about the direction the passage of that bill points in. Obama has said he will veto the bill if it included the offending provisions, but we know how he flip-flops.

Frankly, I think all the signs point to the emergence of an autocratic American Government which has been replacing democracy in small bits and pieces and began with the Patriot Act.

Today we see ever growing assaults on American civil liberties that defy logic, but I think the worst part is how they don't even bother being subtle about the trashing of the rights of the American People.

Perhaps Mr. Bush was correct when he said the "Constitution is nothing but a *@#*#*% piece of paper."

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Nov 30, 2011, at 2:32 AM

Oklahoma Reader

Oh I was not excited mate lol.

I did not realize it was satire though.

When I read it, the economist in me kept saying, "that is meaningless as a long-term indicator" lol lol lol.

I guess its because I have heard so many of my fellow economists lying through their teeth and ignoring the traditional indicators in the process for so long now.

Now that I know its satire, I will go re-read it.

Anyway...you chill!...lol...

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Nov 30, 2011, at 2:20 AM

I think this take on OWS may not be that uncommon considering the perspective forced upon black people in America. http://www.theroot.com/views/ows-blackne...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Nov 29, 2011, at 11:55 PM

News I am surprised that you did not realize that the Borowitz Report is pure satire. Give me a break. You didn't take that spoof seriously did you? I am relatively certain that the writer already knew that it is poppy cock to believe that the annual Thanksgiving Friday madness is anything more than brain washed consumers going on a buying frenzy to relieve their pent up desire to buy, buy, buy.

In my opinion it is not all that different from a broke drunk, unable to buy decent whiskey, spending his last dime on rot gut because he must have something...NOW!

I have long been aware of the distinction afforded durable goods, and found your closing comment "They know better, and now so do you." presumptuous. Chill my friend. :)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Nov 29, 2011, at 9:52 PM

Oklahoma Reader

I read the article you linked to in your comment regarding the 36 hour Black Friday shopping spree.

I looked at the empirical record for the last 3 years. The same thing that happened this year happened last year and they year before and the year before.

I was curious about this because some economists are errantly assuring the public that this is the economic sign they have waited for, and that such is proof of the end of the recession/depression and the beginning of recovery.

I say nonsense.

The only thing they are basing that on is the crowds and sales of Chinese manufactured products -- Chinese imports. Those sales increases are temporary at best and it does nothing to increase new housing starts, new auto sales, or sales of domestically produced durable goods such as air-conditioners, water heaters, and roof-top, solar panel arrays nor does it increase the consumption of domestically produced building materials.

Any economist who is telling you that the frenzied crowds and seasonal increases in retail sales is proof of the end of the deflationary American economy is lying to you. Yeah lying. I am not saying they are mistaken. I am saying they are intentionally telling you a lie. They know better and now so do you.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Nov 29, 2011, at 5:23 PM

"Guan Jianzhong: Downgrading the US"

"The chairman of China's only independent credit rating agency warns they might have to downgrade the US again."

http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/talk...

His economic diagnosis is spot on.

It seems the Chinese have a very clear understanding of the American economy.

If only our Government wasn't an autocracy and the most corrupt government in the World, we might be able to do something about it. But as it is...

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Nov 29, 2011, at 3:58 PM

Its a good question:

"Will War Ever End?"

What is sad that we should even have to ask that question. What is even sadder is how blood-thirsty America is. Nobody is looking to America with admiration in the World Community anymore. Nobody in the World Community seriously regards America as a democratic republic anymore.

Nowadays, whether Americans realize it or not, America is an Autocracy where principles like democracy, freedom, liberty, justice, and doing the right thing are no longer of any importance.

America has become a pathetic, collapsing empire at the hands of 2 conservative parties -- the Democrats and the Republicans.

Is it too late to go back to the good old days of freedom and democracy in America? Well I guess it doesn't matter since only a few of us want that anyway.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Nov 29, 2011, at 12:48 AM

Food for thought. En garde pessimists. Despite the thoughts expressed at this link Malthus lives!

http://www.slate.com/articles/Arts/books...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Nov 29, 2011, at 12:14 AM

A bullish take on the never before seen 36 hour Friday. http://www.borowitzreport.com/2011/11/25...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Nov 28, 2011, at 11:48 PM

In that case News I had better tell you that on the next Saturday morning, after we had delivered four large pizzas on a Thursday evening to OWS-OKC we took breakfat to them. Three big boxes of Dunkin Donuts, a gallon of orange juice, and a gallon of orange-mango juice. Oh, and four packs of Marlboros (the cigarettes by their request when asked what they needed). ;)

Seriously, to receive kudos, and friendship from one of your caliber is indeed gratifying.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Nov 28, 2011, at 11:00 PM

OKR,

Trust me mate, I have never once thought you and I were quarreling.

I guess you forgot,

You are on my list of "American Heroes."

In my book you can do no wrong...lol.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Nov 28, 2011, at 9:28 PM

You may be hearing about an organization called

"King Street Patriots."

If you haven't yet, you will.

Here are the facts regarding this corporation:

The King Street Patriot Corporation is a privately owned, not-for-profit corporation which is owned and administered by Byron Engelbrecht, Catherine Englbrecht, and James C. Hopkins,

http://www.corporationwiki.com...

-- all 3 of them are 1%ers who also own Engelbrecht Manufacturing Corporation, and Plan B Fire Arms, Inc. , in addition to many other corporate holdings along with their partners and primarily the very shady and mysterious James C. Hopkins.

James C. Hopkins owns:

The Dewey Corporation, a for-profit corporation located in San Diego. Very little more information is available regarding this corporation. I was unable to even learn what they sell -- very very shady corporation. His partners include Robert D Humason and Michael R. Schmid. And he owns Epic Ventures, Inc.

The Engelbrechts and Hopkins are the sole and primary owners of King Street Patriots, Inc. It does their bidding. They don't want you to know this by the way, but they cannot hide it from public disclosure because the law won't allow anonymous ownership of corporations . Their commercial interests are selling guns and ammo and selling industrial manufacturing machinery the nature of which seems difficult to get any information on -- almost as if they don't want to be too specific about what that "industrial manufacturing equipment" does.

The web of connections between these individuals and the corporations they own are vast and complex. This is how the 1%ers operate as behind-the-scenes Puppet Masters. Their goal is to make substantial profits by manipulating the political environment.

You will find this information at:

http://www.corporationwiki.com/Texas/Ros...

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Nov 28, 2011, at 9:25 PM

iTS TRUE ,THERE IS NOT ENOUGH COVERAGE ON THE OCCUPY MOVEMENT! yOU WOULD EXPECT TO SEE SOMETHING EVERY NEWS CAST BUT YOU DON'T?

-- Posted by Jo on Mon, Nov 28, 2011, at 8:44 PM

No quarrel with your statement News in regard to the greater economic peril of black folks.

If there was greater participation of blacks at this time the blood bath at the sites would likely have been even greater. I am not so sure that the spirit of Bull Connor does not still reside in the hearts of some of the Gestapo.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Nov 28, 2011, at 3:37 PM

OKR, I think there is a lot more support for the OWS movement in the Black Community than a lot of folks are aware of. People of color are suffering tremendously -- far worse than those in the White Community and like any other American, they are deeply concerned about the direction our Nation seems to be sliding. Some Black folks have gone down to the protests -- particularly high profile Black leaders. I think often it may not be reported or is under-reported in an effort to create divisiveness or at least the appearance of such in the OWS Movement, and estimates of Black participation in the Movement are at best unscientific at this point. None of us knows the accurate figure.

However, none of that really matters at this point because the 3rd Class Coach model predicts that as the causation (war, government/corporate corruption, economic disparity and unemployment) grows so too grows the effect (mass public discontent) at a rate greater than or equal to the growth of the causation.

If the rate of causation increases so too will the rate of the public discontent until it reaches a level of outright revolution -- the real deal -- with the 1% on one side and the 99% on the other.

History gives us a very good idea of what to expect, and frankly its the defenders of the rich that really do have something to worry about if history is correct.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Nov 28, 2011, at 2:46 AM

Why are Afro-Americans not embracing OWS? They are more downtrodden than any other group, and suffer the highest unemployment rate.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/w...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Nov 27, 2011, at 11:36 PM

Wow Jo,

I see you are not a happy camper...and I don't blame you mate.

I think we are all tired of American Government corruption. It would seem we have allowed the foxes to govern the hen=house, sort-to-speak.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Nov 27, 2011, at 11:23 PM

I would like to see Marshall Law declared on Wall Street and all big Corporations,Until they can weed out all the thieves, and then deal with whats right for the Economy, and well being of the People! We should keep our Nose out of other Nations Business,No more Money in Foreign aid for any of them!Term Limits on all Government Offices,with the exception of the President,that would be left up to the People.Roosevelt was kept in place from 1933, until his Death 1945!A lot of Great things happened!If there doing their Job keep them in Place, the People will make that choice.Any deception or taking things out of Context in an Election will be Prosecuted! When its said that its just Politic is BS,it doesn't have too be that way and everyone knows it? i think that would be

Fraud or Perjury,and well be Prosecuted as such!

-- Posted by Jo on Sun, Nov 27, 2011, at 10:08 PM

"Pakistan voices 'deep rage' over NATO attack"

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia/2011/...

"US, Pakistan Near Open War; Chinese Ultimatum Warns Washington Against Attack"

"Any Attack on Pakistan Would be Construed as an Attack on China"

http://tarpley.net/2011/05/21/us-pakista...

"Obama Tells BBC He Will Violate Pakistan Borders"

http://tarpley.net/2011/05/24/obama-tell...

I sure am happy I don't live in the United States -- even happier than those right-wing folks who hate me and also enjoy the fact that I am not living in the United States (as an American I certainly could live there anytime I want to live there...however, I think its safer down here.)

And if things start to look like there will be massive nuclear attacks on American cities, my wife and I will be moving to Brewarrina, deep in the Australian Outback or maybe even Alice Springs) -- its one of the the safest place in the World, or at least its as safe as any place can be. Thank goodness for remote, isolated communities that live just fine in no-man's land, way down under!

Good luck mates!

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Nov 27, 2011, at 9:10 PM

koeller77

No, you are incorrect.

Bad politics may lead to war, but War is a category all to itself

...or did some of our Congressman run into a hidden IUD today?

I didn't think so.

Politics is politics.

War is a whole other subject.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Nov 27, 2011, at 7:17 PM

Thanks ND...I guess. What is going to happen to my grandchildren? I am old, and perhaps getting forgetful. What is it again that IMF stands for? Oh, now I remember, Insidious Meddling Fools.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Nov 27, 2011, at 4:07 PM

Howdy mate.

Can you validate my parking, mate?

-- Posted by CheddarMate on Sun, Nov 27, 2011, at 12:06 PM

"Mexican president accused of war crimes"

"systematically allowing troops to kill, kidnap and torture civilians"

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/americas/2...

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Nov 27, 2011, at 2:36 AM

Goldman Sachs to make presidential run.

http://www.salon.com/writer/k_m_breay/

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Nov 27, 2011, at 12:40 AM

"Philadelphia mayor gives 'Occupy Philly' eviction notice"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/11/26/ph...

If you had not already figured out that the Democrats are just as big an enemy of the People of the United States as the Republicans, you now have full confirmation.

Its time we start putting criminals like Michael Nutter and his rich, fat-cat 1% pals in prison.

Its time WE THE PEOPLE -- the 99% -- send a message to these criminals like Michael Nutter -- you are finished as are your rich, fat-cat pals. There is no place in our Government for criminals anymore. Those days are finished.

Its becoming clearer and clearer that the only thing the 1% understands is violence...so be it...it looks like they will get it.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Nov 26, 2011, at 4:24 PM

OCCUPY! OCCUPY! OCCUPY!

Right on ND!!!!

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Nov 26, 2011, at 3:05 PM

Way to go red dog your home work.The fact is the collage has a track,it's in the building across the street,in the one they built a few years ago.They haven't used that old track in awhile.

I lived here a big part of my life,and it is true that the highschool did pay to use not the track but only the football feild.ONLY.they used that old runned down gravel track that in fact has never had a whole lot done since i went to school there.It still has the same old blechers there when i was in the 7th grade. but still to this day not a dam thing has been to that track.the concrete is all broken up was then and still is the middle school track in question.

But were any cuts made to fix that on going problem and the safety of anybody and,or any students,think not.instead they used that track until and well after they bulit the new highschool and some years ,until they got a track.but yet nothing still has been done to the old one.why. cause they don't care about those young kids that use it nor their safety.

Now back to the point.they closed the A.E. school,true.for what real reason,money.

The money they say they had to save,for what.lets see how,a couple of new vehicles that they said they were buying.how about a new shed that maybe that the wick builders provided,why cause his wife is involed in the tennis program.maybe.

but someone still got to pay for the labor.that's how that works

The soccer feild, maybe those compaies are taking care of their part,but once again the labor.who pays for that.in case you dont this but concrete is not cheap,i know.it's about $100.00 a yard ,so you ask your self, how many yards are they pouring.[$135.000 worth] who paying for the labor.they don't donate that stuff.

The track oh yeah the track.did any one donate a 3 135.00 fOR the asphalt ,the paint for stripes ,maybe and maybe not.so you got ask yourself that. i don't think so.

Maybe the track was in need of some repairs a little cosmetic work.a fairly new one at that.they close down something that fundamentaly good,for sports fans as you say.

Their savings is $135.000 that they said they forked out yearly for that building,wow thats alot .for a couple of rooms.and you think that macfarland was charging the school district that much money for that.good for him.there is no way that could be.thats stupid.on their part.

brake that down.i think there was four teachers,a secetary,and the principle.is that where the $135.00 was going or for the rent and ultilies.uh.

so what were they trying to save ,the staffs salaries or the rent .their still paying their salaries but in a different school.so what were they saving.

They couldn't afford the A.E. school but yet they can do all this extra stuff after they voted to do so, why you ask.heck i don't know why maybe i will ask the school board ,so they can give the public some bull story about their actions on what is right or wrong or maybe the good for school,and not anything else.

Apparently you did read all the past post about this matter and maybe you did ,maybe not i guess.their is alot of people here that feel the same way as i do on this matter and yeah maybe it is at the highschool but that is not the point.

The point is what they did to those kids that might have a hard time learning or getting along the staff at the highschool.they could have made cuts else where,like the hall cop.last i remember it is a HIGHSCHOOL not a level 4 prison.that school is no more harmful today than it was when it was built.so what is with cop.just more money or sercurity.that could have been a cut.

Enough said i could go on the fact of the matter is they will do what they want and tell you what they want you to hear,just like the higher end of the berucratic ladder we all have to trust their judgements cause they know best and the good of mankind ,but yet they are always cutting funds for education.always

So how much money out of that $135.000 IS GOING TOWARD FIXING UP THE PLACE.ALL OF IT AND SOME.

-- Posted by madparent1 on Sat, Nov 26, 2011, at 2:45 AM

Which side are you on, Democracy, or Capitalism? Is Western Civilization being forced to make that choice? http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/t...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Nov 26, 2011, at 12:41 AM

The problem with history is that instead of choosing to learn from it we simply choose to revise it if not ignore it all together.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Nov 25, 2011, at 9:22 PM

"Eisenhower warns us of the military industrial complex."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y06NSBBR...

Maybe we should have listened...eh mates?

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Nov 25, 2011, at 7:55 PM

THE AMERICAN POLICE STATE

"Police body slam leaves grandpa bloody, unconscious at Wal-Mart"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/11/25/po...

I bet Grandpa is having a few second thoughts about his support of the American Police State.

"Off-duty police pepper spray NC shoppers"

http://bottomline.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...

"Safeway fires guard for banning 4-year-old girl"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/11/25/sa...

Season's Greetings from your Police State Government and remember -- OBEY!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8Q9MxvxX...

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Nov 25, 2011, at 5:07 PM

LOL wtf,

Well that won't there long lol lol lol...

but I admire your fortitude mate lol.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Nov 25, 2011, at 4:45 PM

mrxray

The NAZI's hated socialists. That is why the socialists were the first to go to the concentration camps.

The NAZIS were a small, ultra-right-wing, conservative think tank when Hitler was first ordered by the army to investigate and spy on them. Hitler was delighted to learn the NAZI Party shared his conservative ideals and he joined them.

The National Socialist Workers Party is no more socialist than North Korea is a democratic republic (as in "Peoples' Democratic Republic of Korea," aka, "North Korea").

I can understand your confusion. Lots of folks mistakenly judge books, national titles, and political parties by their cover -- rather than looking at the story inside the book, or the ideals which fueled a political party, or what the actual policies of that party or government were.

As to the teaparty fascists...well they are fascists not much different than the folks we were just discussing. I have no time for the teaparty, their failed economic policies or their opposition to enforcement of all but 2 of the Bill of Rights. As to the future of their policies....well those are causing a lot of unrest in the USA and I see no reason to think that unrest has dissipated any.

As long as oppressive, authoritarian teaparty policies continue to destroy our economy and allow the flow of wealth into the private accounts of the fat-cat rich bankers, the cause of the unrest will continue to result in more and more public unrest, more police violence, and more folks sliding into poverty. The only real question is how long does the teaparty think it will be before We the People start loading them up onto the guillotines? I am betting it won't be much longer lol lol lol...Good luck buddy lol lol lol...

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Nov 25, 2011, at 3:32 PM

So Mr.X-Ray, Communists, Nazi Socialists, and Anti-Americans are totally funding the OWS movement? Really? ROTFLMAO!

I saw on the original Speakout that you are looking for someone to dig you some post holes. You are so adept at digging holes for yourself, that it has me scratching my head as to why you would ever need such a service. ;)

P. S. Welcome back.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Nov 25, 2011, at 12:30 PM

all of you who are standing up for the whole idiotic occupy wall street and occupy cities movement have obviously NOT done your research as to who is initiating this and backing it and who is prodding the young mindless fools with their expensive tents, Ipads,Iphones and etc to stay in a location in a city protesting something of which they have NO real grasp of, made obvious by the inability of them to do nothing more than shout one liners and memorized propaganda, ALL WHILE creating in evironment in the tent cities where drugs and RAPE and Crimes are being commited, and where HONEST hardworking MIDDLE CLASS small business owners are being DESTROYED while the idiot protestors disrupt their businesses and vandalize their property all while proving they are idiots every time they open their mouths....... Bill Ayers, George Soros, the Communist, Nazi Socialist and other ANTI American groups are totally funding and pushing this movement.... no wonder Obama is trying to show that he empathizes with this OWS movement..... At least the Tea Partiers went home at night, cleaned up their trash and were respectful....

-- Posted by mrxray on Fri, Nov 25, 2011, at 10:11 AM

I was watching the most recent Republican Presidential Debate this evening.

It was interesting to say the least.

To me it looked like 2 sane people (Ron Paul and John Huntsman) surrounded by a bunch of pathetic nut cases -- except for Rick Perry who would make a terrible President but would make a great neighbor.

I know folks think I am a democrat. I am not a democrat. Nor am I a Republican. I am an independent who could be persuaded to cast my support for either Ron Paul or John Huntsman and I certainly think either of these good and honorable men would make better Presidents than Obama has been.

Anyway, for anyone who has not seen it,

"CNN Republican National Security Debate 11/22/2011 (1 of 9)"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbG83q_A4...

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 6:26 AM

OKR,

William River's Pitt's article normally would bring to everyone's attention the criminal behavior of the mayors and police involved in the brutal attacks on the peaceful protesters. However, apparently the teaparty neocons who cried so loudly for a return to our Constitution are no-where to be seen or heard when it comes to defending that Constitution they claimed -- falsely -- that they understood, had read, and wanted to see enforced.

These mayors and their storm-trooper, brown-shirt police officers all need to go to prison where they belong and as soon as possible. However, if nothing good has come of the attacks on our Constitutional rights by the police and the conservative 1%, at least now the teaparty has been exposed for the fraud they are.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Nov 22, 2011, at 10:27 PM

Turning the tables on the Neu Reich, and its Gestapo, as explained by William Rivers Pitt.

http://www.truth-out.org/peoples-surveil...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Nov 22, 2011, at 7:53 PM

ND,

Actually, as I have pointed out before and which remains a well-understood fact in the science of Economics is that "free-market, "Supply-side," and "Voodoo Economics" are all the same thing -- Neoclassical Hypothesis. It too has no empirical evidence which would describe it as a successful economic hypothesis when used in practical application.

I am all for trying out the Steady-State Economic Hypothesis. Certainly the Neoclassical approach is not working as evident by the many economic collapses we have experienced over the years as a result of applied Neoclassical policies. We need a new deal and perhaps Steady-State is the way to go. I say let's try it and see what happens. If it doesn't work, we will try something else.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Nov 22, 2011, at 2:46 PM

What the f......

Grover Norquis and his pals might not like it if We the People -- the 99% -- stop paying taxes...and remember, the Supreme Court says its not a criminal act to not pay income taxes -- as long as a person files, she or he is perfectly legal.

Of course that only works if one is in the 99% -- because tax liens don't work well on the poor which is where the middle-class is headed...fast!!

Oh I think old Grover Norquis and his rich fat-cat pals would be squealing like pigs if we stop paying for their corruption and injustice...and everything else.

"SHARON JONES AND THE DAP-KINGS - WHAT IF WE ALL STOPPED PAYING TAXES?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MD4d7bel...

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Nov 21, 2011, at 11:39 PM

ND,

Thank you for asking me about Steady-State Economic Hypothesis. I am honored that you are interested in hearing my thoughts on that.

But first, some good listening music while you read my response (lol)

"Taxi Driver - Soundtrack"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGkujkBRa...

OK, got it playing? Lovely isn't it?

Here is a summary of my opinion thus far of the Steady-State Economic concept.

I like the general concepts of Steady-State Economic hypothesis.

As yet is has not been attempted in the form now described by Herman Daly, Robert Costanza, and AnnMari Jansson, et al, so we have no empirical evidence to support it. I believe it may have strong mathematical support, and I think its probably do-able.

It describes achievable Allocation and Technology goals, but it becomes rather fuzzy as regards the 3rd leg of any economy -- Equity -- how the goods and services are to be distributed. That is a crucial aspect of any economy.

I believe that a Steady-State economy would only work in the context of a very tightly controlled economy. The dollar vote element of Capitalism just won't do it. To maintain effective levels of supply and demand at a stable equilibrium point while also keeping investment and depreciation at exactly the correct balance would require a scientifically planned economy.

I fully support the idea. I would love to see our Nation at least give it a shot because at least one thing is for sure...

...Capitalism sure doesn't work very well, nor can Capitalism survive long in an environment of declining consumption.

Thanks again for asking and I hope you enjoyed the musical portion of the show..ahem...I mean, summary.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Nov 21, 2011, at 11:14 PM

If anyone has been watching 60 minutes the past few weeks, they are quitely running stories that show the very reason people are protesting. So far it's been inside information that congressmen use to invest for thier own personal gain and the power of lobbyist Grover Norquist. It's all sad, pathetic and infuriating. Good job 60 minutes and keep it up!

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Nov 21, 2011, at 4:26 PM

Thanks for the link ND. I signed their petition. Unfortunately in many congressional quarters petitions such as that get the same sort of attention that they would give to the hanky of a bum with a bad cold as he handed it to them.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Nov 20, 2011, at 9:47 PM

As we begin Thanksgiving week here are some things to be thankful for; that is if you are progressive populists.

Centerists may also wish to read it, but if so, treat it as a Thanksgiving buffet, devour the things that delight you, sample some others, and just move on past the things that turn your stomach. There is enough to like to be satisfied.

As for you folks on the far right, don't bother to even walk to the table. It will just give you indigestion, high blood pressure, and may even cause you to vomit. ;)

Mark Bittman-"No Turkeys Here" http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/201...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Nov 20, 2011, at 3:39 PM

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Nov 20, 2011, at 3:47 PM

For all the sisters and brothers of the Occupy Movement,

I think Green Day might agree...this song is in your honor.

Good on ya America for not lying down and taking it!

Good on ya America for fighting back against the fat-cats and their fellow travelers, the teaparty neocons!!

Green Day - "Holiday [Live]"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5aQFRc4o...

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Nov 19, 2011, at 7:02 PM

OK, now I am getting concerned.

RR WHERE ARE YOU BUDDY??

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Nov 19, 2011, at 3:52 AM

"Let it be told to the future world, that in the depth of winter, when nothing but hope and virtue could survive, that the city and the country, alarmed at one common danger, came forth to meet and repulse it."-Thomas Paine December 23rd, 1776.

The writings of this man for the ages are as pertinent today as they were over two hundred years ago.

I invite you all to explore "The Crisis" a series of "posts" by our friend Tom Paine. http://www.ushistory.org/PAINE/crisis/in...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Nov 18, 2011, at 2:25 PM

Thanks for the Link Okla.That guy,PITT can put it out there. Great story!

-- Posted by Jo on Fri, Nov 18, 2011, at 1:04 PM

Here is another of our neo-pamphleteers who like Chris Hedges, writes as if Tom Paine is looking over his shoulder. William Rivers Pitt on OWS. Enjoy, think, then act! http://www.truth-out.org/what-america-lo...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Nov 18, 2011, at 12:06 AM

Jack Abramoff could help The Government take down these Lobbyist, and other thieves, why don't they? Were the hell is Holder? Is he even there anymore?They won't do anything when they get the chance,this entire Government has to go!Are we the People, stupid? It would surprise me if there working on this! Abramoff has a book out ,but i don't want too put any Money back in his pocket! Thanks for the Link Nana.

-- Posted by Jo on Thu, Nov 17, 2011, at 9:42 PM

ND,

I did indeed enjoy that very much!!

Kieth doesn't mess around. He gets right to the point.

Great link ND.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Nov 17, 2011, at 12:03 AM

Thanks ND.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Nov 16, 2011, at 11:27 PM

Ya know OKR, your right...

...it sure has gotten quiet around here lately.

I am hoping some of our good friends on the other side of the political aisle are perhaps silent because they are considering the arguments made by those in the 99% Movement...well revolution might be a better word for it.

Funny that how folks can sometimes see things so much clearer when they realize the voice they are hearing is the collective voice of the overwhelming majority of Americans demanding a whole new deal.

Let's see, how does that old saying go?

Oh yeah, "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em."

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Nov 16, 2011, at 3:01 AM

There is no question about it anymore -- Bloomberg needs to resign as soon as possible along with the New York City Chief of Police.

They are finished politically.

oh and...

OKR, the Chris Hedges op-ed piece...nothing short of brilliant!!

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Nov 16, 2011, at 2:50 AM

Expanding further I believe that it is the example set by their presidential hopefuls that has caused conservative comment to cease on this political blog, rather than that they have been overpowered by the splendid minds of those fortunate enough to possess an enlarged anterior cingulate cortex.

It seems that each week a new head pops up a bit higher than the others, from the sewage lagoon that all the Republican candidates are swimming in, and just as their constituency on the bank throws that candidate a line, and pulls it partially to dry land, they are as usual, overwhelmed by the stink, release the rope, and let another hopeful slide back in.

Michelle Bachmann has amazed the world with her astounding ignorance that is recognized by every conservative whose knuckles don't drag the ground when walking.

Rick Perry who, even worse, at times can't speak at all, and then when he does, reminds them so much of George W. Bush that it sends a shudder down their spines, has been rejected.

They hoped that they were on to something with their own black candidate, Herman Cain, to oppose Obama, but have even if they can't admit it, the sense that he is a womanizer, and a bully. They may have been able to live with that, but his over the top imitation of Rick Perry's brain freeze was just too much. They let him flop back into the water.

And so it goes, on, and on, one by one. With each the stink has a distinctive top note, but the underlying stench is the same.

Meanwhile Mittt Romney holds his head high above the water, immaculate hair unscathed, carefully treading, treading, treading. It could be that the nomination is his if he will just adopt the old Stealers Wheel song as his campaign anthem. "Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, here I am, stuck in the middle with you."

That is until you consider this. It was those with conservative minds that violently drove the Mormons from state after state for their heresy. I am not willing to believe that in essence, the inflexible conservative mind has changed, only circumstances have changed. They will not nominate a Mormon for the office of President of The United States.

The result is that conservatives don't know what to say, because they don't know what to think. They can only rail against Obama for so long until surrounding voices, and in some cases their own inner voices say "well, then who?" They are at that point, and they like some of their candidates, have become speechless.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Nov 16, 2011, at 1:42 AM

It is beginning to appear that the modern day loyalists who have posted here have seen the tide turn, and have all fled to some virtual Canada for conservatives, where their remarks are heard by, and responded to only by an array of those with amplified amygdalas.

They are apparently either clustering with their own herd, or burrowing away from the light of day because they can not bear what the sun reveals to them these days.

Sad it tis that small comfort is all that remains for them.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Nov 16, 2011, at 12:13 AM

Chris Hedges. To me his writing is evocative of the revolutionary spiriit exhibited by our colonial pamphleteers

http://www.truth-out.org/what-revolution...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Nov 15, 2011, at 11:47 PM

Buddy Roemer is the best of Republican candidates. Jim Hightower has a high opinion of him, and (for me) that is one strong endorsement.

http://www.buddyroemer.com/posts/a-polit...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Nov 15, 2011, at 9:31 PM

"GOP presidential candidate Buddy Roemer: Bloomberg on the wrong side of history"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/11/15/go...

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Nov 15, 2011, at 4:52 PM

Gingrich: "Republicans 'don't rely enough on actually knowing things"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/11/15/gi...

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Nov 15, 2011, at 3:13 PM

I will look for that ND. It sounds like very interesting reading.

I think the hope for the future is, with out a doubt, the young people of America. I admire the way they are "mad as hell and not going to take it anymore." I fully support them. They are bravely utilizing their Constitutional rights to bring an end to teaparty/capitalist oppression of the Nation.

Also, it looks like the Reagan Era has finally died an overdue death. The effects of Reaganism on the Nation have been horrific, and the ideology a complete and utter failure.

These are indeed signs of hope.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Nov 14, 2011, at 1:46 PM

Good Points all ND.

Frankly, looking at America from the outside, it looks as if half the Country has lost its mind.

Never-the-less, I remain hopeful.

Its odd how different America appears when one no longer lives there. To me America looks a lot like the former Soviet Union, ruthlessly trying to build an empire and doing whatever it pleases with no regard for human rights, national sovereignty of other countries, and no regard for basic values and morality -- and yes I do mean the conservatives and middle of the roaders to be specific. When torturing people is no longer a moral problem for a person or a party or a country, something is terribly wrong.

Gone are the days when things like liberty and freedom had any meaning in America.

Gone are the days of the great American experiment in Democracy.

Gone are the days of the great American dream.

I really wish my fellow Americans could see what our Nation looks like from the objective perspective. It isn't pretty.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Nov 14, 2011, at 1:04 PM

OKR

That was pretty good mate.

Very creative.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Nov 14, 2011, at 2:20 AM

I'm sorry, I forgot to put on the title.

BEAR, Bull, and ME

I am also sorry if poetry bores many of you. No bull, bear with me. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Nov 14, 2011, at 1:09 AM

The Soviet bear hibernates confined to the Russian Cave, awakening occasionally to crunch bare bones left from aged kills.

John Bull still walks with grand steps, turning often at close boundaries of diminished estate, looking across to neighbor Uncle Sam, reflecting with despair twinged regret, at that companion's decline.

Ah, poor Sam, a white beard grown to disguise callow youth, too soon conformed to general appearance.

They all vaguely perceive rumblings to the east, confused as a giant yellow hand pats the heads of the people of the world, but then they have all been to Afghanistan.

The sun sets in the west bringing darkness, as it rises in the east with a brilliance that blinds some to the appearance of the new day.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Nov 14, 2011, at 12:28 AM

Question:

When exactly did Herman Cain lose his sanity?

My guess is while he was CEO of Godfather's Pizza.

Perhaps some of our friends who happen to have a conservative interpretation of events could shine some light on this question.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Nov 13, 2011, at 11:13 PM

Any politician seeking to be elected to national office in 2012 who does not co-opt at least some features of the new progressive movement is a fool. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/13/opinio...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Nov 13, 2011, at 11:01 PM

"Mayor frees Occupy Burlington protester"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/11/11/ma...

Oh friends, you have got to see this video. These young people are so brave.

POWER TO THE PEOPLE!!

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Nov 12, 2011, at 8:26 PM

"...a full 61 percent of Republican voters said they were not troubled by the numerous sexual harassment allegations against Cain."

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/11/11/po...

What's wrong with this picture?

What is wrong with Republicans?

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Nov 12, 2011, at 5:37 AM

That was a very interesting article OKR.

I am sick and tired of conservatives screwing things up and then going "oops!" and then thinking we will just forget all about their many screw ups and return them to public office.

Idiots!

Thanks for posting that mate. I hope some of the neocon teapartiers read it...not that it would even begin to occur to them that their "leaders" are taking us down the road to hell, nor do I think facts have any significance to them.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Nov 12, 2011, at 3:16 AM

Perhaps I would eat it. :)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Nov 12, 2011, at 1:01 AM

There, I did it again (Steagall).

No, it wasn't Godfather's Pizza. I would perhaps eat it, if Herman Cain first ate his words, all of them. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Nov 12, 2011, at 12:05 AM

I misspelled political Upsedaisy. I used kenned as you assumed. I thought it appropriate because it carries a nuance, knowlege beyond what may be expected to be known. I believe that hits Newt Gingrich squarely in this instance. Who would expect him to believe, or at the least, that it was a mistake, to repeal Glass-Steagle.

Good to hear from you.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Nov 11, 2011, at 11:55 PM

OK R,

Hope it isn't Godfather's pizza!

What did you misspell?

"kenned"? I thought you were using the Scottish term "to know"

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Fri, Nov 11, 2011, at 10:56 PM

I am eating pizza, and trying to write at the same time. Sorry for the misspelling. Also I left out his name. Newt Gingrich.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Nov 11, 2011, at 7:37 PM

Has That old polical strategist kenned that it is going to take populist positions to win the Republican nomination, and the presidency? I look for (hopefully) a lot of monkey see, monkey do from the other candidates.

Hard to believe what he said. http://www.addictinginfo.org/2011/11/09/...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Nov 11, 2011, at 7:33 PM

parkuser

Oh about average on the right, wrong, and inbetween mate.

How about you?

Anyway, so, where in my argument am I wrong. Have at it and point out how I am all wrong. I am from Missouri mate, you will have to "Show Me" -- and please, be specific.

Where is my argument incorrect? After all, an argument either can stand on its own merits or it can't.

Show me where my argument is incorrect, mate.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Nov 11, 2011, at 6:41 PM

"Herman Cain's Campaign Promises with Mike Tyson"

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/4ecfd3a...

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Nov 11, 2011, at 12:57 AM

Jo

It is the rich -- the Rothschilds, the Koch Brothers, the Waltons, the Rockerfellers, and a few of their friends who sent those young people to die in that war -- a war started for and fought for to make the rich and only the rich much richer.

When the rich no longer have any further use for us, they care not what becomes of us.

That is why the rich in this country need to be stripped of all their wealth and put on trial for their crimes against the People.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 11:29 PM

I thought i had seen and heard and read about every Disgusting thing this Country, and the People running it,but when i heard about our Brave Men & Women killed in the Far East being Dishonored and their Bodies handled like so much Garbage, even in Death,makes me even more disgusted with Washington and the way the system works. Some of them thrown in the Dump In south Carolina,after Cremation! One Identified Pilots Arm sawed off so they could get their Uniform on his dead Body! This is just now being Investigated By the Agency that should have been on this years ago,so more to be reading in disgust!And they want People to be Civilized, Dignified and Respectful when dealing with them,b*** S***! People we as a Nation Had better do something fast! We will end this Country with our own Civil War!

-- Posted by Jo on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 10:35 PM

"Poll shows most see deepening wealth gap"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/e...

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Nov 9, 2011, at 5:39 PM

Jo

Its all cause and effect mate.

The cause is the growing, wide-spread poverty, a rapidly shrinking middle-class, and the disparity of income between the rich and the middle-class/poor-class.

The effect is widespread discontent amongst the People which manifests itself in ever-growing, large demonstrations.

If the cause worsens, so does the effect.

The next step predicted by the 3rd Class Coach Model should be cities on fire -- some of which we have already seen

The Model predicts that as discontent rises in response to worsening conditions -- and remember that means "worsening" conditions, it will ultimately reach the point of revolution. This revolution can take many forms. Historically, it is usually bloody as were the American and French Revolutions.

Let's all hope that Rich Tyrants that are causing the discontent will soon get the message before they find themselves sitting in a jail cell waiting their turn on the Guillotine -- right behind their current supporters.

Its all cause and effect.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Nov 9, 2011, at 5:33 PM

RR

Haven't heard anything from ya buddy.

I hope all is well mate.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Nov 9, 2011, at 5:15 PM

With the way the systems is set up, with Bush & Obama Appointments, our Government can do what they want! I personally think we have let them go too far already.Until the entire Population of this great Nation gets involved, like the 99%,there is not a hole lot going to change. They may give the illusion of it, but, some were in their Black conniving Heart they will get all of us! Make us their Slave! And yes the Police can turn a peaceful Protest into a Riot real quick,and thats whats hard for the Protester to deal with.Its a fine line for them to walk! But to them i say good Job my friends!!

-- Posted by Jo on Wed, Nov 9, 2011, at 3:24 PM

NanaDot

You make some good points there and I have no dispute with any of them.

However, I would like to point out that cities on fire is exactly what we get when we allow the rich to strip the People of all hope for a decent future.

I really do wish the rich and the tyrants that support the rich would go over there to France sometime and count how many rich folks ended their careers on the Guillotine.

The Will of the American People -- the 99%ers -- is unstoppable and they will carry the day in the end.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Nov 9, 2011, at 2:43 PM

Well said News. Those are the parameters I utilize when considering, or discussing liberal, or conservative orthodoxy.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Nov 8, 2011, at 7:08 PM

"We are Radicals"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WU0Rg1gVQ...!

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Nov 8, 2011, at 6:59 PM

Oops -- lol -- typo alert in my previous comment. said "euity," meant "equality."

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Nov 8, 2011, at 6:13 PM

zeke

..and yes I am proud of the team.

Many good Americans play a role in the process of restoring democracy to our Republic, defending the poor, defending human rights, defending long-standing Western concepts of justice for all, euaity, and fair play.

It is both fair and correct, and as Patrick Henry would point out, a patriotic duty, to quickly correct erroneous, conservative propaganda and misinformation and any argument that is designed to encroach upon the rights of mankind.

Yep, I am darned proud of this team of concerned citizens who rally to the cause of truth and right.

In fact, I think one more cheer is in order!

JOB WELL DONE TEAM!!!

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Nov 8, 2011, at 6:11 PM

(Terms defined: continued):

"Conservative" Defined:

A Conservative is one who (1) (Constitutional Approach) follows the "Strict Constructionist" view of the Constitution. This School of thought holds that the Constitution is a rigid document which should be interpreted literally and that no other documents, records, or literature written by the Founding Fathers should be used or included in any interpretation of the Constitution. The Strict Constructionist believes the Constitution should be taken literally and word for word. Strict Constructionism often runs into serious difficulties when attempting to define the words used and consequently, the meaning of the Constitution.

(2) (Economic Approach) the Conservative follows Neoclassical Theory (aka, "Free Market economics," Supply-side economics, et al.) This economic Theory (actually the word hypothesis would be more suitable since there is no empirical evidence to support the validity of the Neoclassical approach) suggests that consumption is the engine of the economy and that only economic market forces should determine the direction of the economy with government stimulation limited to utilization of the Tax Multiplier and application of one area of Keynesian Economic Theory, Monetary Approach, which utilizes the Prime Rate to cool down the economy during inflationary periods to keep inflation under control. The Neoclassicalist believes economies preform best when government takes a laissez faire -- hand off -- approach to the economy. The Neoclassicalist believes that economic downturns are self-correcting.

Yes there are many opinions in this World -- 7 billion of them lol.

However, when defining terms its best to have an operational definition that is understood by all parties to a discussion involving those terms. Operational definitions are best provided by the experts such as Dr. Dunn and those in the field of specialty in academics. The above definitions are universally accepted in academia and by most, if not all, fully accredited universities. In addition, these definitions are clearly supported by the empirical evidence and is discussed in depth in essays by many of our former and current Supreme Court Justices.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Nov 8, 2011, at 3:15 PM

zeke

Actually, they had the same definition in 1803 that they did in 2003 and will in 2103.

I am not surprised that you are unable to give an objective definition of these terms. A lot of folks can't. I couldn't define them either until I was in my sophomore year in college.

Fortunately, I took some courses in Political Science and read Charles Dunn's book, "American Democracy Debated"

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=Q7jr...

in which he gives very useful, objective definitions of these words which defines these terms at any point in the history of American diplomacy and is regarded in academia as the universal political definition of these terms as regards the United States history of diplomacy.

"Liberal" defined:

A liberal is one who (1) (Constitutional Approach): Follows the School of Thought referred to as the "Liberal Interpretationist" approach to the Constitution. This School of Thought states that the Constitution is a living document which our Founding Fathers intended to serve as the supreme law of the land for all time. They designed it to be flexible and, with quite some difficulty, changeable.

The Liberal Interpretationist view holds that the Founding Fathers, who wrote a mountain of essays, letters, articles, op-ed pieces, and books in which they discussed their views and what they intended in the Constitution, left these detailed writings so that we can better understand what is meant by the Constitution they wrote. The Liberal Interpretationist believes these records and documents must be considered any time we are interpreting the Constitution.

(2) (Economic Approach): Follows Keynesian Economic Theory which holds that economies are driven by consumption and that consumption is best stimulated through the Federal Spending Multiplier. Keynesian Economic theory further holds that government has a strong role to play in shaping the economy especially since it is the largest employer in the United States and that only the government has the means to sufficiently stimulate the economy. This School of Thought further proposes that economies should operate at a slight deficit in order to guard against the effects of Paradox of Thrift which is likely to occur when a sufficient amount of money is kept in the National Treasury as a surplus. Keynesian Economic Theory views government as having a responsibility to the People to ensure a regulated economy that benefits all the People and has a responsibility to motivate equitable distribution of goods and services in the economy.

Please move to my next comment above for the second part of this comment.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Nov 8, 2011, at 2:43 PM

as you know - news - the terms liberal and conservative probably and most likley DO NOT mean the same today as they did in 1800 ...

i think today's society would see a liberal as a person who states he or she favors a political philosophy of progress and reform and the protection of civil liberties ... or someone who is open-minded or tolerant, especially free of traditional ideas, values, etc. ... i also think that what we see in practice is that many who would see themselves as liberals are often the most intolerant of ideas and opinions that don't line up with their own ...

and i think today's society would see a conservative as someone who appears to adhere to principles of personal responsibility, moral values, and limited government ... many self-proclaimed conservatives hold former president Ronald Reagan up as their standard bearer and tend to believe that a conservative is someone who rises above his or her personal self-interest and promotes moral and economic values beneficial to all (the last part of which sounds like what us former-liberals wanted in the 60s and 70s - and a lot like what Christ stood for) ... a conservative in today's sense would seem to place a great deal of importance and value on the scriptures of the Judeo-Christian Bible ... conservatives will say they seek or support limited government, balanced budgets, capitalism and free markets ... although - like liberals and others - this is not always the case.

again - i do not believe comparing the meaning of "liberals" or "conservatives" in 1800 to today is a productive process due to the fact that there seems to have been significant changes over the years.

i know that's probably not scientific enough for some - but that's how i see it - and - after all - this place is all about opinions ...

-- Posted by zeke on Tue, Nov 8, 2011, at 8:26 AM

"GOP bill would make Pledge of Allegiance mandatory for Michigan students"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/11/07/go...

Wouldn't it be easier to just have the kids face the flag, thrust their arm out at a 45% upward angle, hand flat with plams towards the floor and then have them shout loud and proud "Sieg Heil?

After all it means the same basic thing.

Personally, I only have allegiance to truth, justice, equality, and the principles of a democratic republic.

The GOP has their fascist thing, and I have my democracy thing. Each to his or her own I guess.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Nov 7, 2011, at 4:23 PM

zeke

What is your definition of the terms "Liberal" and "Conservative" in the political sense?

Please define these terms without going to issues please. Give us definitions that would have been as equally applicable in 1800 and 2011 and everywhere in between.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Nov 7, 2011, at 3:43 PM

my real complaint centers around folks who are "all the way" conservative or "all the way" liberal - with no variations or in-betweens ... if anything - i guess i am a little of both ... and that is beyond some folk's ability to comprehend ... for them - every thing has to be all black or all white - in every circumstance ... and i don't believe that's how life presents itself ... soooooooo ... i can't and won't make "i'm right and anyone who disagrees with me is wrong" types of statements ... just won't join in that fray ...

i wish you peace ...

just sayin

zeke

-- Posted by zeke on Mon, Nov 7, 2011, at 3:25 PM

sorry - Old Testament ...

-- Posted by zeke on Mon, Nov 7, 2011, at 2:35 PM

wow - you must be so proud of your "team" for pulling off the "Wam - Wam Bam - Drive the Nail Home" tri-fecta ...

anyway - though lenin was probably a genius and stalin was most definitely a monster - it is my humble opinion that ANY TIME a people start thinking they need a king - they end up suffering ... in the Old Tetsmant (I know - you don't believe the bible - but hey - it's just an illustration - OK?) ... in the OT the people demanded a King and God gave them Saul - a giant of a man who stood head and shoulders above everyone else - and he turned out to be a complete failure and practically brought the people down with him when he fell. ... more recently - our nation demanded a king and now we have a man in the white house who can't get anything done in congress and refuses to make peace with them - so he announces he will "start governing(?) by executive order" ... now that's democracy (tongue firmly in cheek) ... gotta love it.

and btw - you may think you have shut the other conservative up --- but maybe he or she decided to stop casting pearls before swine, so to speak, and spend his or her valuable time elsewhere.

note: i am not calling anyone swine - just using another bible reference ...

just sayin'

zeke

-- Posted by zeke on Mon, Nov 7, 2011, at 2:34 PM

Normally, I would be pretty amused at What William Kristol had to say, but since the US is only a democracy in that we get a choice between one candidate or the other for a Presidential Office that is now a virtual dictatorship, it becomes difficult to be giddy over it.

When any President can have any American citizen killed at any time and for any reason he wants, then just use a claim of National security to legally squash any judicial review (and squash all investigations, also legal)...well...the Constitution clearly is no longer the law.

So which dictator will it be? Obama (who has already had an American murdered -- and for political reasons at that)? Or maybe you would prefer Mitt Romney handing out the political murder orders to special services military units?

One or the other.

I think I can almost hear the sounds of a democracy crumbling somewhere in North America.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Nov 5, 2011, at 9:26 PM

"Bill Kristol concedes 2012 presidential race to Democrats"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/11/05/bi...

"It's Not 1980 Anymore," Bill Kristol, "Weekly Standard"

http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/i...

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Nov 5, 2011, at 9:13 PM

I would like to note that in a previous comment string, in a different forum, a conservative -- not RR or X-ray -- got the triple hammer -- WTF came in with the short but hard Wam! ND jumped in with an almost lethal Wam Bam, and, standing on the shoulders of the giants before me, I brought the nail home.

Nice work team! (lol)

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Nov 5, 2011, at 8:22 PM

"Romney Economic Plan: Of The 1%, By The 1%, For The 1%"

http://thinkprogress.org/progress-report...

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Nov 5, 2011, at 6:22 PM

WTF...

Yeah I saw the thing on Cain lol.

His bid for the White House is now over, albeit he has not announced that -- yet -- however his past sexual harassment/discrimination of his employees guarantees he is done, finished, Kaput.

Next he will be staring on the Fox/Republican Propaganda "News" channel and getting that book written.

Cain is and has always been nothing more than a cheap opportunist who has gotten rich paying his employees minimum wage.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Nov 5, 2011, at 6:12 PM

NanaDot

I would agree to a flat tax as long as neither individuals nor corporations can have any deductions.

If you have to pay a tax based on your gross revenues -- then so do the corporations.

That means Gross Revenues -- not Gross Revenues less expenses...lol.

What the cons are trying to do is make you pay a flat tax on your Gross Income while corporations would only pay the flat tax on their net income.

If they want a flat tax, then they have to level the playing field and treat all individuals and corporations the same -- flat tax on Gross Income.

Watch how fast the 1%ers drop that flat tax idea when you explain to them that means paying the tax on their Gross income...lol.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Nov 5, 2011, at 6:06 PM

Nana I am so gonna do that. I get at least three of those a week.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Nov 5, 2011, at 9:27 AM

Did anyone see where Herman Cain said he was the Koch Brothers "Brother from another mother"?

Does this guy not see that this is exactly the reason people are protesting?

And we're supposed to vote of this guy?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Nov 5, 2011, at 7:22 AM

It's amazing how much trouble the 1% can cause.

The top 1% with the money, 1% of cops who beat protesters and 1% of the protesters who cause problems.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Nov 5, 2011, at 7:12 AM

"Things Congress passed this week that had nothing to do with jobs"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/11/04/th...

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Nov 5, 2011, at 5:55 AM

Yeah OKR has a good point there RR, you are way to smart to go with a simple 1 liner like that. In fact mate, sometimes you are quite intellectually challenging.

I am disappointed...(lol).

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Nov 5, 2011, at 4:31 AM

rr3 must you always be so scornful, and abrasive? The story is all over the internet, so pick where yo want to read it. Typically, you had no comment on the story itself, instead using it as an opportunity to disparage the Huffington Post.

That is so off point, and lightweight. You are better than that.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Nov 5, 2011, at 1:08 AM

Huff Post oh then it must be true then.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Nov 4, 2011, at 11:33 PM

Did I strike a chord here?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Nov 4, 2011, at 11:32 PM

Sorry...here is the link to the Afghanistan story.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/04...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Nov 4, 2011, at 11:29 PM

Just as I expected!!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Nov 4, 2011, at 11:26 PM

U. S. General in Afghanistan fired for speaking the truth instead of sticking with the propaganda that is dished out to the public. It is bad there, and getting worse. Karzai says that if U. S. and Pakistan go to war, Afghanistan will join Pakistan. Winning the hearts, and minds of the Afghanis. NOT!

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Nov 4, 2011, at 11:26 PM

And also RR,

It would appear religion has had its share of frauds as well.

"List of religious leaders convicted of crimes"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rel...

How is that "divine inspiration" working out for ya? lol...

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Nov 4, 2011, at 11:21 PM

rr3yv0

Obviously faked data is neither science nor correct.

Its also not the first time.

Its a civil and sometimes criminal wrong -- but it sure isn't science mate.

However, just because there might be some frauds in science does not mean we disregard the rest of the accurate, non-fraud, peer-reviewed evidence.

We didn't shut down all investment corporations when we busted Bernie Madoff for fraud, and we don't discount REAL science just because of some jerk faking data.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Nov 4, 2011, at 11:16 PM

Dutch Scientist Diederik Stapel Faked Data

http://www.theworld.org/2011/11/dutch-sc...

I wonder how that factual, testable, measurable, verifiable, repeatable evidence is working out?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Nov 4, 2011, at 10:55 PM

The media wants you to think it is the police causing the trouble. You mean its not there job to have rocks thrown at them, watch people set fires and break out windows. You all are as pathetic as the OWS.

The media tried to make the Tea Party look bad but they cleaned up their own trash and were peaceful. So yes news you are supporting violence, but yet you want to appear to be peace loving. Yeh right!!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Nov 4, 2011, at 10:43 PM

Oklahoma Reader

I have added you to my Great American Heroes list...lol.

Good on ya mate!!!!!

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Nov 4, 2011, at 8:18 PM

Went down to OWS-OKC last evening, we took them four large pizzas. Had some interesting conversations...more later.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Nov 4, 2011, at 7:39 PM

In Oakland the cops are using strobe lights that are supposes to make camera's ineffective. Now why in the world would the cops want camera's to be ineffective? Wanna take that one rr3yvo?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Nov 4, 2011, at 7:11 PM

NanaDot

I am not surprised to learn the police are behind the violence.

I was very near Daley Plaza in '68. I watched the police riot from an elevated "L-train" platform near-by. I saw the police attack the People with clubs and shields. I saw the sharp-shooters taking aim on the roof-tops. I watched as the police beat and arrested every single person they could lay their hands on including beating folks who were peaceful and clearly surrendering to the police (the cops did not care and beat them with clubs anyway) and news reporters who were clearly marked as "Press."

I have seen first hand how the police operate when their rich-fat cat bosses dictate orders to attack the People -- and then try to blame it on the People.

Its time We the Majority of Americans draw a line in the sand. Its time we put the teaparty robber barrons in jail cells where they belong.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Nov 4, 2011, at 3:39 PM

It would behove the teaparty (aka Republican Party) and other conservatives who support the rich 1% that those kids you see at OWS are our kids -- our friends kids, our siblings kids, and our grandkids.

We, their parents, relatives, friends, and other supporters of civil rights, peace, economic equality, and democracy have no intention of leaving those kids out there on the OWS front hanging.

The kids may be flat broke -- but we their older relatives and supporters are not broke. A lot of us have rather significant resources, and we intend to finance OWS, collectively.

You teaparty neocons have the Koch Brothers -- OWS kids have the majority support. I bet we win.

I will be posting OWS leadership sites where supporters of OWS can make donations to help keep the kids warm and fed while they continue their protests.

As for my wife and me, we are preparing to make a significant contribution. We think liberty, democracy and our kids are worth it.

The OWS kids are not alone -- they have us.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Nov 4, 2011, at 3:29 PM

What the f......

I fully agree with your sentiments mate.

I am tire of rich fat-cats telling me what I should do and think when they have no idea what-so-ever what its like to live poor or middle class.

...and I am about tired of the suckers of the rich telling me what I should think too. I am not interested in being like them -- a slave to the rich. I believe only in liberty and freedom -- particularly my freedom and liberty lol.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Nov 4, 2011, at 2:32 PM

zeke

Actually the elected Communist Party Secretary was Lenin who many of us still regard as Russia's greatest hero and a great hero of the working-class.

After Lenin's death, Stalin bullied his way into the the position of CPS. He was never chosen by the People or by Lenin.

As to life under Stalin, yeah bad news but not surprising given the long history of cruel tyrants that go back over a 1000 years in Russian history. Certainly the Czar, the previous power in Russian was just as bad as Stalin and every other tyrant in Russian history. No surprises there either.

Its unlikely that such would occur in America. In fact, as President Eisenhower pointed out, the greatest threat to American democracy comes not from the communists or the left wing, but rather the greatest threat comes from the fascist leanings of conservatives in America. Those are the ones he suggested we keep a close eye on.

Whatever comes of the OWS protests, one thing is for sure -- the poor and middle class are through being kicked around by teaparty fascists and their Rich, fat-cat Republican banker pals.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Nov 4, 2011, at 2:28 PM

rr3yv0

When did I say I approve of violence?

Show me where I said that.

I said I support the right of the People to demonstrate, assemble, and present their grievances.

As regards violence, I oppose all violence. I am a rock-solid pacifist.

However, I don't make the decisions for the People. The People make their own decisions -- they are the deciders.

Yes I recommend peaceful resistance, but that is just me. Clearly, the majority of the protesters may have a different take on it.

Never-the-less, 3rd Coach Class Theory of economics which predicts that when the People have nothing less to lose, they are happy to give up their lives -- as long as they can take the rich with them. Rioting is the next natural step when the Peoples' rights have been stomped on by a tyrannical Governement. And look for a lot more of our cities on fire before its all over mate -- this thing is just beginning.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Nov 4, 2011, at 2:18 PM

Zeke regarding Russia in the early 1900s do not forget that Russia was corrupt with a despotic government, which enabled the communist takeover.

Have you considered the other lesson in your example? Our current situation is similar. Hence it is urgent that people do not sit on their hands, and grumble about the Tea Party,and/or OWS. The people must make every effort to end the rampant bribery of government officials, the back, and forth employment of government officials by those they regulate, and rein in the greed, and gambling that is endemic in our financial apparatus.

That is our pragmatic choice. Failure to make that choice may result in rue regarding the changes that are going to occur. Change is coming make no mistake about it.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Nov 4, 2011, at 1:09 PM

Let's see how rr3yvo justifies this.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Nov 4, 2011, at 12:12 PM

BRAVO NANA! BRAVO! Well said indeed.

BTW, I have worked all of my life starting as a child hoeing beans and detassling corn. I have worked all my life and I am happy to do so. I am, however, sick and tired of being told by the wealthy that I have to sit down and shut up because I haven't "worked hard enough".

It's not about having wealth, it's about how you got it.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Nov 4, 2011, at 11:33 AM

all of this OWS stuff and its resulting mayhem remind me of what "history" tells us happened between 1905 and maybe 1919 in Russia ... we all know how that turned out - stalin taking the lead in about 1924 ... i wonder what the outcome will be here in the good ole USA ... all i know is that washington is broke and somebody needs to find a way to fix it ...

-- Posted by zeke on Fri, Nov 4, 2011, at 8:44 AM

That's funny news that of the OWS you would approve of violence, rape, public nudity, trashing public property with no intent to clean it up and antagonizing police to get arrested. I see a double standard here. What if the Tea Party had done any one of those things? That's ok you don't have to answer because I already know what it will be. There may be some good things happening and good people involved in OWS but they are being made to look like a bunch of thugs because of these events. Keep them quotes coming I like being famous.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Nov 4, 2011, at 6:09 AM

2012 DNC Discriminates Against Charlotte Businesses, Demands Unionization

http://www.redstate.com/aglanon/2011/11/...

I am just curious if all of you that scream about fairness think this is fair? I eagerly await an answer, this should be interesting.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Nov 4, 2011, at 5:49 AM

NanaDot

Great Article mate.

I got to thinking about my youngest son when I read it. He is in the Navy proudly serving our Nation. In fact, he has sacrificed a lot for the honor of serving in the United States Navy. His wife is sacrificing too. She has to live without her husband until he comes home. She has to take care of the children, the home, work, and balance it all without the man she loves so much.

My son says he works 18 hours a day, 7 days a week on that Ship. Its probably more like 12 hour shifts but it probably feels like 18 hours to him. He had a baby last August -- his first son and my first grandson, Tony. My son has not seen Tony yet. He has not held his son yet. He has not yet been able to tell his son that he loves him. And he won't being doing any of those things until that Ship gets back to Seattle.

He loves his Country very much and he gives all he has to his service to our Nation, but if he were back in the civilian World right now, and no longer serving in the Navy, he would be right in the forefront of OWS -- serving our Nation in another way and with just as much dedication.

Thanks NanaDot for reminding us all that this younger generation, the OWS movement, is a hardworking, strongly motivated, and intelligent group of young people dedicated to the principles of peace, equality, and justice and devoted to our traditional democratic values.

Good on OWS and good on you NanaDot.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Nov 4, 2011, at 2:24 AM

"I guess you guys ought to be proud of the Founding Fathers. Tried to take over a city building, starting fires in the streets and trashing a ship full of tea. Such nice peaceful protesting you fully support that, RIGHT!!!"

RR I hope you don't mind that I changed a bit of your wording in your comment.

See how you think it sounds now.

RR. do you also believe our Founding Fathers were wrong to revolt against the Government?

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Nov 4, 2011, at 12:21 AM

RR its like Woody told the rich fat-cats and their supporters mate,

Woodie Guthrie - "All You Fascists are Bound to Lose"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s76mkRRGP...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Nov 3, 2011, at 9:32 PM

RR

You said,

"I guess you guys ought to be proud of Occupy Oakland. Tried to take over a city building, starting fires in the streets and trashing a Whole Foods store. Such nice peaceful protesting you fully support that, RIGHT!!!"

I say this is exactly what the 3rd Class Coach Model of Economic Theory predicts. (I predicted this as well, about a week ago here in this forum and for the reasons I stated which proved to be a 100% accurate prediction).

Cities on fire is the response of the People to tyrannical government, AFTER that corrupt government and its owners -- the rich fat-cats -- have denied the People their human right to absolute freedom of assembly and their absolute right to protest for as long as they want, in any public place they want.

The People are correct to defend their Human Rights, by what ever means are necessary (becaue its their Country and they are the 99% of that Country) and to demand to be allowed to peacefully demonstrate unmolested by Storm Trooper Police under the command of fascist politicians and rich fat cats.

I always support the People -- they are the deciders -- not the 1% and the teaparty minority.

And remember RR, it does not end till the People win.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Nov 3, 2011, at 9:20 PM

the proper size of government

http://www.whoisjohngalt.com/2009/04/the...

Can it be too big? Some don't think so.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Nov 3, 2011, at 8:20 PM

The government takes in 2.2 trillion per year and spends 3.7 trillion per year. If the government took 100% of the money over $250,000 that the top 1% earn, how much would it be? That would only work for one year because next year I can guarantee nobody would make more then $250,000.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Nov 3, 2011, at 8:10 PM

I guess since it is football season then--go long, pass...touchdown.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Nov 3, 2011, at 7:45 PM

Right again.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Nov 3, 2011, at 7:42 PM

rr3yvo,

Wow. You really have no idea what this is all about do you? Are you being willfully ignorant or are you just repeating the blahter you hear from your questionable news sources? As with all human injustices you have to follow the money.

It does no good to protest in Washington. We have to protest against those who bought and paid for Washington. You have to follow the money.

You have become a cartoon of yourself but it is no longer funny...it is sad.

Each is your posts is more pathetic and desperate than the last. A true Christian should possess the capacity for empathy. What would Jesus do,rr3yvo? What would Jesus do?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Nov 3, 2011, at 7:39 PM

Obama is behind it, our community antagonizer-in-chief. He wants the riots and the violence because what else does he have. This is his base, the losers, the bottom 50% that pay no taxes. They are losers because they listen and look to the government for success. The only way to success is smaller government then we would all be winners. They are not the 99% they are a minute minority that the liberals are using just like they use everybody dependent on government. They use the black community, they use single moms, they dumb down our kids, they promote climate change, etc. etc. They buy their base for the votes for the power. And you think they care about anybody but numero uno then you are naive. To make things better we just need more money and more votes. Folks the government don't need more money period. We need to riot in Washington where the non-producers are not the people working. We need to quite inconveniencing working people and go to the source. OWS is doing exactly what Obama wants and blame it all on the rich. Some people will believe it but the majority won't and if they run a conservative candidate then conservatism will win in 2012.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Nov 3, 2011, at 6:54 PM

Thanks wtf I am right again.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Nov 3, 2011, at 6:34 PM

Yep, I fully support them. If you had the skills for critical thinking then you would know that those who are destructive have nothing to do with the actual protest. They are just trouble makers.

We'll probably find out they were planted there by the wealthy to cause trouble giving the cops probable cause to forcefully break up the protests.

I look forward to the future protest of the country clubs and gated communitites. The uber wealthy will need to spend thier money on higher walls. Your criticism falls on deaf ears.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Nov 3, 2011, at 6:28 PM

I guess you guys ought to be proud of Occupy Oakland. Tried to take over a city building, starting fires in the streets and trashing a Whole Foods store. Such nice peaceful protesting you fully support that, RIGHT!!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Nov 3, 2011, at 5:50 PM

Oh may I also add, I think the teaparty is now dead in the water and is now politically irrelevant.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Nov 3, 2011, at 5:17 PM

I don't know about other folks, but I for one am extremely proud of the younger generation.

They are showing tremendous courage, strength, and fortitude in the midst of the 2nd Great Depression demanding their fair share of the economy, an end to the wars and empire building, and an end to lobbying and capitalists bribing our politicians.

They want action. They mean business. And they won't accept "NO" for an answer.

I am very proud of the younger generation. They inspire hope.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Nov 3, 2011, at 5:16 PM

I just watched this video, wow!

Its a very different take on Michael Jackson's song, Billie Jean.

Check it out.

Billie Jean by Aloe Blacc & The Grand Scheme

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DptqlP9PY...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Nov 3, 2011, at 4:52 AM

RR

I enjoyed reading the article you posted which makes comparison/contrast analysis as regards President Reagan and Obama.

I agree with the thesis and I think the author presents a well supported argument.

Great article mate.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Nov 3, 2011, at 4:34 AM

NanaDot

Apparently the rich have forgotten who mans the military and navy -- the children of the 99%ers.

Our children would not march on their parents.

Our children would not shoot at their parents.

The Czar learned that the hard way when the Russian Army became his own worst enemy -- after he ordered the Russian Army to put down protesters. They basically told him to stick it because they had no intention of killing their own families.

Oh here is a more modern story that may illustrate my point on a smaller scale.

My wife's Aunt June is a hard-core political activist from way back. She is now in her early 80's and still extremely active in protests. About 10 years ago they had a big protest against the Warf/Union policies of conservative Prime Minister Howard. One of the police there to control the crowd was her son, Stephen. The cops got the order to move on the crowd and the crowd peacefully resisted -- with Aunt June at the head of the crowd lol. Stephen's commander ordered him to arrest her. Stephen turned to his commander and said, "I am not arresting my Mother no matter what." He didn't and that was the end of that. No one arrested her. Word spread real fast to the other cops present that she was Stephen's mother and they all refused to arrest her.

So much for using our kids against us.

The rich had better start giving in soon before they reach the point of no return and learn that we really do mean to put them on a guillotine and that its not some mere metaphor.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Nov 3, 2011, at 2:59 AM

Thanks for the link ND. I had previously read the article by Lew Rockwell that is referenced by commentary at your link. The diverse voices raised in this latest cause of the people, by the people, and for the people is making some strange bed fellows. It doesn't bother me. I learned long ago that even a skunk doesn't smell too bad, if you stay down wind, and are going in the same direction. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Nov 3, 2011, at 12:10 AM

...and a fine good evenin to you ND. :)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Nov 2, 2011, at 11:58 PM

Rush Limbaugh; ten most racist quotes. http://newsone.com/obama/casey-gane-mcca...

This is one for The Gingham Dog, and The Calico Cat to sink their teeth into. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Nov 2, 2011, at 11:57 PM

News, you have more confidence in the People than i do! When you have gotten Burned like we have in the last 4 Elections, like we have,it's hard to think that most of the people have got it, yet! There a long pause between Elections were more Damage can be done! This Country is already in a collapse mode!I haven't liked some of things Obama has done,but with some of the others we could have been a lot worse off! I'm for another Party, and too **** old too see one come about.I see absolutely Nothing coming from the Republican Party! So i wonder how does it exist as a Political Party ? I'm missing something that the Republicans of this Country are feeling.Unless they are immune too Pain and abuse from maybe a dominate Family that insisted on regimentation for everyone? this is what i get from there Ideology. Sounds like you live in a system that works with not a lot of conflict in Government? Good for you and your Family, I have some jealousy my friend!!!

-- Posted by Jo on Wed, Nov 2, 2011, at 8:05 PM

Obama's Reagan Parallels are Falling Away

http://www.aei.org/article/103823

If liberal policies are so successful why do they always emulate a conservative at election time? Get it!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Nov 2, 2011, at 7:27 PM

"GOP Rep: 'Few things more important than re-affirming 'In God We Trust'"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/11/02/go...

The GOP is completely out of touch with the People...and reality.

Let's kick the GOP to the curb in 2012 and get our Government working for the People instead of the crazies.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Nov 2, 2011, at 4:48 PM

Jo

What the Republican Congress is doing is sharpening up the Guillotine which WE THE PEOPLE -- the 99%ers -- will be using to lop off the heads of the politicians and their rich, fat-cat 1%er masters.

Everyday they come a little closer to their fate.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Nov 2, 2011, at 4:42 PM

Congress is doing a wonderful Job! They reaffirmed our motto (in god we trust) and voted to have 2 weeks on & 1 week off for themselves! Sweet deal for everyone but the People! This is absurd ! The People should do something,besides waiting to Vote them out! Like drag them out of the Chamber by their foot, Sorry i forgot, that's Politically Incorrect!But Civil disobediance & fear, seem's to be the only thing they will understand! This Political System is actually silly!!

-- Posted by Jo on Wed, Nov 2, 2011, at 4:31 PM

rr3yv0

Yeah you got a nominal raise when you found a new position, however, I doubt that was a Real Wage increase for that same position.

It helps to understand what Real Wages are and why that is a statistic so important that the Government has tracked it since 1820.

Real Wages is that package of goods and services you could purchase with your total income in a 12 month period.

The Government statistics show that on the macro level, that is the entire Nation, Real Wages have not increased for the 99% since prior to 1978. That is a statistical fact and it says it all. You may think you got a raise, but in fact you simply found a new position. That position now pays the same Real Wages it did prior to 1978.

I admire you drive to step up to better employment positions RR, but that is not the same as a Real Wage increase.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Nov 2, 2011, at 4:28 PM

rr3

he told the woman caught is adultery to "go and sin no more" ... he told the woman at the well many other things - so many that she said to him that she "perceived he was a prophet" (John 4) - but not to "go and sin no more" ... just for clarification ...

just sayin

zeke

-- Posted by zeke on Wed, Nov 2, 2011, at 2:52 PM

You mean the police violence,right?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Nov 2, 2011, at 2:32 PM

That's good to know Nana. There are also many there that are being paid and don't know why they are there. They really want this the gain traction like the Tea Party but I don't think it is happening. Did their parents also teach them that violence was ok during protest and it is ok to trash public property for someone else to clean up and to also be arrested and to trample others civil rights in the process. Oh thats right you don't want to listen to that spin. I am right again.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Nov 2, 2011, at 11:29 AM

I agree okr and I know people are frustrated, I mean I am frustrated as more and more of my hard earned dollar goes to gas and food. I guess my point would be that it's ok to protest but do you do that instead of working? Can't you protest after work? I want to instill in my children and grand children that it is ok to speak up but don't rely on the government to make you successful. No matter how bad it is go out there and do something, don't sit around and think of someone to blame because you have nothing. As Larry the Cable Guy would say "Git er done".

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Nov 2, 2011, at 6:33 AM

Nana --ROTFLMAO--

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Nov 2, 2011, at 6:26 AM

I don't know that I deserve better news. I feel I have done pretty well but that depends on what you compare it to. Since 1998 by changing jobs and promotions my wages are up about 377%. During that same time union bosses have gotten richer with fewer members. It's easy to put the blame on the 1% that are already paying their fair share then to look at the very people that claim to be for us. Yeh they have gotten rich off us by keeping almost 50% of eligible taxpayers dependent on the government for everything. Yet we keep voting the rich into public office so they get richer lets protest them. As Trump would say "you're fired".

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Nov 2, 2011, at 6:23 AM

RR, I can't help but admire the strong effort you have made in your life to live the lifestyle you prefer. I have no doubt you fully understand the meaning of the words "hard work." I admire your spirit buddy.

I think the problem is that the American worker has not had a Real Wage increase since prior to 1978 -- that is what the National Statistics show. As a consequence you and many other people have ofter had to work extra hours beyond your normal 40 in order to make ends meet. From 1820 to 1978 the American worker had regular, yearly Real Wage increases -- even in the Great Depression workers received Real Wage increases every year. That is why each generation's lives improved. Each generation received greater and greater Real Wage increases over the years and span of generation. It is the real American dream -- work hard and be rewarded with Real Wage increases. That stopped in 1978 and the income of the top 1% increased dramatically. They became much, much richer as we worked harder, longer, more efficiently, and with no Real Wage increases. All the benefit of our increased productivity -- all of it -- went only to the top 1% -- all of it! That is not fair to someone like you who has worked so hard and for so long RR.

You deserve better than that mate.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Nov 2, 2011, at 3:34 AM

Jo

Your comment is the most significant political point I have heard or read all day.

You really hit that one right on it!

The Republicans are wasting time with nonsense when they should be creating direct hire, government jobs with good middle class wages rebuilding our infrastructure and a national solar energy grid.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Nov 2, 2011, at 2:30 AM

Your experience rr3, or mine for that matter, are not relevant to now. My life experience has been similar to yours. As a child I knew what it was to hear my belly growl all day, I overcame...yadda yadda yadda.

Every statistic supports the reality that it is increasingly harder to get ahead. So truthfully neither you, nor I have the first hand experience as to how tough it is to start up now. More, and more are materially making less, and less progress. We are on our way to a return to a society reminiscent of the days of the Robber Barons.

When our perspective arises from "back in the day", and we ignore the present, as well as projections about the future, we have become victims of geezerdom and our voices become meaningless ghosts from the past.

Things have gone well for you, and for me. I think we both want at least the same starting base for our grand children that we had. Unfortunately that is not the case. Do you not see that? There is a reason that people are disgruntled, restive, and more of them, are more so all the time. It is just the beginning of the stirring of the people. Get aboard, or get left behind. Muttering about the past is best left to those in rest homes waiting to die, and or meet their Maker.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Nov 2, 2011, at 12:02 AM

Nana keep waiting that was the exact response I had you pegged for. I am right again. Thank you.

Besides Nana and Wtf who else thinks I didn't answer?

When they don't like the answer they accuse you of not answering the question. Get real or maybe you need a hobby.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Nov 1, 2011, at 11:31 PM

I remember back as a child okr I always thought things were unfair. There was always other kids that had more. My parents were poor but we always had food on the table and a roof over our heads and I never heard them complain about anything being unfair. I was unemployed once but I realized it was up to me to find work to get the things I wanted. When I didn't like the job I had it was up to me to find another job that I might like better. When we didn't have enough money to pay all the bills I went out and got a second job to make ends meet. When we had trouble buying groceries I went out to the woods and shot something and drug it home so we could eat. We planted a garden and canned the produce so we wouldn't have to buy it in the store. I'm doing better now but I don't drive new cars and my only debt is my house. My car I drive to work has over 275,000 miles on it and is much cheaper to operate then a new one. I say let the haves have it I have what I need and I can live with that and if I have to I can live on less or get a second job again. Sometimes the only difference between the haves and the have-nots is the size of the payment. I've had payments but I don't want them, and if people would learn to live within our means they would be better off. We live in a society that teaches us when we want something get it now, keep your credit score high and you can borrow your way to prosperity just like our government. But then when something happens it all comes tumbling down and then we think its unfair. In my opinion that is for children.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Nov 1, 2011, at 11:25 PM

News not to worry something that might be offensive to me may not bother anyone else. Seems like they said this in some movie "don't worry about it".

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Nov 1, 2011, at 11:07 PM

Personally i could care less what they did 2000 years ago! This is sounding like what the Republicans are wasting time in Congress with this (IN GOD WE TRUST) and NO one is working! I think these fool Politicians has got everyone silly! If there is any change in this Country,you'll have only these People sitting in the cold and Snow too thank,not some imaginary God! Everyone has to get real. I respect your having faith but it has no place in Policy for this Country! Matter of fact i believe the People of Faith is who has started a lot of this,with the People they Vote into Office!(Example)Bush and all the others that has sucked you in with Faith! Just a thought.

-- Posted by Jo on Tue, Nov 1, 2011, at 10:58 PM

Thanks for answering rr3.

Regarding your partial answer "If we have our eyes on God it doesn't matter what others have." has been nefariously used by haves, against have nots for ages. Slave holders regarding slaves, men against women regarding personal, property, and voting rights, and the rich against the poor.

It has otherwise been stated in secular context as "know your place, and stay in it". Quite convenient for the haves, but that belabored bromide does not pass the smell test in a society wherein fairness is of the slightest concern. Just my opinion of course.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Nov 1, 2011, at 9:42 PM

Lest we forget...

Woody Guthrie - "Jesus Christ"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVRqdhfFA...

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Nov 1, 2011, at 8:16 PM

Oh but on the OWS thing...well Jesus did make a mess in that Temple when he was overthrowing the money-changers (bankers in it for the profit) tables...and it sure did seem to make him down-right angry.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Nov 1, 2011, at 8:14 PM

RR,

You took the words right out of my mouth mate, lol.

Mutual respect is what its all about in the end I think.

I will try to post less offensive stuff mate. I did not realize I had offended anyone. I certainly didn't intend to. Sometimes I see things that I simply think are funny, but not necessarily relative in any realistic way to the topic at hand. In other words, I like comedy for comedy's sake and in no way would I post anything I thought might be patently offensive.

Thanks for bringing that to my attention mate and I will consider my audience a bit more carefully the next time I post something I think is funny.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Nov 1, 2011, at 8:06 PM

He could tell them to go and sin no more like the woman at the well. I mean one of the commandments is to not covet. What is the purpose of OWS? If we have our eyes on God it doesn't matter what others have.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Nov 1, 2011, at 7:58 PM

I checked your post rr3 it says: "Well it is becoming quite a joke wtf. If you want to know what Jesus would do maybe you need to read your bible. I personally don't think he would support trashing personal and public property and antagonizing the cops. Maybe you support those kind of things.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Oct 31, 2011, at 11:44 AM "

So, In regard to OWS what would Jesus do in your opinion? From your post I gathered the limited knowledge that you think he WOULD NOT support trashing personal, and public property. Leaving Jesus, and the money changers aside for the moment, what do YOU think Jesus WOULD have done in regard to OWS?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Nov 1, 2011, at 7:34 PM

Good for you wtf I'm so proud.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Nov 1, 2011, at 7:29 PM

rr3yvo.

I'll speculate that if Jesus were here he wouldn't like you, Rush Limbaugh or FOX news.

That's my Jesus speculation for the day.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Nov 1, 2011, at 7:15 PM

Nope wtf I could never and would not claim to speak for Jesus. I can only speculate what he might say just like you. I can only speculate how you respond to my post too. Although I am usually right on the latter.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Nov 1, 2011, at 6:45 PM

rr3yvo,

So let's assume for a moment there was a Jesus. Are you saying that you speak for him?

I will say one thing, when it comes to the "nonsensical" as you put it, you are certainly in your element.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Nov 1, 2011, at 4:15 PM

I am really surprised okr that you would jump on this nonsensical band wagon. I quess birds of a feather stick together.

All you have to do is read

The post on 10/31 11:44am to get what you need.

Maybe if you read what I post

You will get what you need the most.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Nov 1, 2011, at 3:18 PM

Hey rr3, with all due respect to you, in regard to OWS, what do you think Jesus would do?

Or, (just to address it from the other side) why would Jesus not with them abide?

You must have an opinion, with which you may retort. I will await with interest, your overdue report.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Nov 1, 2011, at 2:10 PM

I just threw up a little in my mouth....

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Nov 1, 2011, at 1:21 PM

Thank you news. Even though we disagree most of the time and sometimes go at it I feel we have a mutual respect for each other. Of course I can't speak for you, it is only my opinion. You always offer something of substance in the form of an opinion, idea, theory or fact. You seem to have gotten away from attacking someone on character, sources of information or simply because you disagree. I know old habits are hard to break. I want to thank you for that. Even when you post something I deem offensive I still respect your position even though I don't agree. You are a rare breed among liberals because as we see in politics they are usually mean and nasty and facts doesn't seem to matter if you disagree with them. The media is the worst. Some posters on here seem to always want to be at odds instead of offering any sort of intelligent dialogue. I know when I first started posting on here we would have never had this sort of dialogue. Respect I think develops over time when you decide to accept the differences along with the agreements. Again news I want to thank you and as I think you would say "good on ya mate".

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Nov 1, 2011, at 11:25 AM

Ya got a point there RR.

You have every right to your take on things mate and I for one think this would be a pretty boring forum without ya.

And even when we disagree, I think you are a good guy RR.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Nov 1, 2011, at 12:29 AM

rr3yvo,

So Jesus would support the wealthy? I guess the rich have finally found a way to pass a camel through the eye of a needle. I'll bet they hired a scientist to figure it out.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Oct 31, 2011, at 8:11 PM

What question is that Nana? With all of wtf's and your diatribe I forgot what it was. Must be really important to gain so much attention from you guys. I do try to answer legitimate intelligent questions but many times you all don't like the answer. I just have to laugh at the way you carry on over NOTHING.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Oct 31, 2011, at 8:02 PM

rr3yvo,

I blindly follow no man,being,book or movement.I follow my heart.

Just how did I assinate your character? I guess I must have used your words against you.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Oct 31, 2011, at 3:59 PM

Wtf don't you grow weary of character assasination?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Oct 31, 2011, at 2:59 PM

Wtf are following the OWS footsteps?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Oct 31, 2011, at 2:49 PM

rr3yvo,

I need to read the bible? Thank you for commenting as each time you reveal more and more about yourself.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Oct 31, 2011, at 1:41 PM

O. K. rr3 lets hear your interpretation of Jesus, and the money changers. Seems somebody ( we really don't know who, do we?) said he did a bit of trashing himself. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Oct 31, 2011, at 1:10 PM

Well it is becoming quite a joke wtf. If you want to know what Jesus would do maybe you need to read your bible. I personally don't think he would support trashing personal and public property and antagonizing the cops. Maybe you support those kind of things.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Oct 31, 2011, at 11:44 AM

Apparently rr3 doesn't like being refered to as a loyalist.

-- Posted by Smart Dog on Mon, Oct 31, 2011, at 7:57 AM

RR

That was a great link mate.

The dog definitely knows his limitations lol lol lol.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Oct 31, 2011, at 6:25 AM

rr3yvo,

You seem to get a lot of joy from making fun of the 99%. What would Jesus do? I would really like you to answer that question for a change.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Oct 31, 2011, at 5:00 AM

Two of the greatest qualities in life.

http://pagosasprings.com/two-of-the-grea...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Oct 31, 2011, at 12:10 AM

I think they got it wrong instead of the 99%ers they are the 0.99%ers.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Oct 31, 2011, at 12:07 AM

When even Conservatives such as Thomas Friedman are saying it you know we are in trouble. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/30/opinio...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Oct 30, 2011, at 10:48 PM

"Whenever possible go outside the experience of the enemy." -S. Alinsky

http://www.truth-out.org/gandhi-meets-mo...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Oct 30, 2011, at 10:24 PM

May I suggest that if the Tennessee Republican Governor cannot find it in himself to obey the law and follow the Constitution then perhaps it would be time for Obama to consider sending in Federal Marshals to insure that the right of the People to peacefully assemble in Nashville is protected.

...but we know he won't.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Oct 30, 2011, at 10:01 PM

cheesehead

Not only that, but the Judge stated that the Governor's curfew was invalid because it had not been passed by the State Legislature and that the Governor had no authority to rule by decree.

Its awfully scary to see such occur in a Nation that was once regarded as a bastion of democracy and civil liberty.

It illustrates the greatest threat that is emerging from the Republican Party -- authoritarian rule by a strong-man state governor who has no need for a state legislature and rules by decree. He is a good example of the kind of "leadership" the Republicans would like to see at the national level as well.

Sad but true mate.

Oh one other thing, even legislated curfew of adults violates a whole bunch of our Constitutional amendments and articles -- not the least of which is our right to peacefully assemble and protest which has no time limit. Similar curfews have been struck down as unconstitutional by the High Courts both at the state and national levels -- and there is a mountain of precedent which prohibits such curfews.

The Tennessee Governor should be immediately impeached, convicted, and removed from office as well as be brought up on Federal charges for his flagrant disregard for the rights of the People and his aggressive, violent assault on the right of the people to constitutional democracy in their state.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Oct 30, 2011, at 9:57 PM

In this video there is a report that police in Tennesse were told they couldnt impose a curfew at this plaza by a judge they defied this order and only arrested protesters that defied this curfew and no the others that were in violation of this illegal law. The judge ordered all of these protesters to be released.

My question is to anyone who is qualified to explain this is this, how exactly are the police allowed to enforce a law that is illegal without themselves or those in charge being charge with a crime or disciplined in some way?

http://patdollard.com/2011/10/occupynash...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Sun, Oct 30, 2011, at 9:21 PM

It looks like we have police riots going on in Nashville and Denver.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45088079/ns/...

Question: What happens when authoritarian city and state governments violate the right of the People to peacefully assemble in protest and then attack the protesters?

Answer: The People fight back!! Cities on fire baby, cities on fire!

This is only the beginning.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Oct 30, 2011, at 3:44 AM

Yeah, I like Hip-Hop...

I may be wrinkled, but I am not old.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Oct 29, 2011, at 10:07 PM

Ah Heck, while I am at it...

Dr. Dre - "Forgot About Dre" ft. Eminem, Hittman

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5a93wABH...

N.W.A. - Straight Outta Compton

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JjqTinl-...

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Oct 29, 2011, at 9:33 PM

Uh well now that I look at it, I have to disagree about Eminem. He clearly has a style that is his own. But you are spot on with the other 2 fellows.

On a more serious note, may I point out that about all I have seen Obama-the-murder do, regarding Africans, is to kill as many of them that he can, and he has done nothing to significantly improve the lives of African Americans.

As for Eminem, the man has style.

Eminem - "Real slim Shady"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGk2qmDmv...

Eminem - "My Name Is"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNPnbI1ar...

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Oct 29, 2011, at 9:15 PM

rr3yv0

Lol lol lol lol lol, great joke mate. I whole-heartedly agree and laughed my rear off.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Oct 29, 2011, at 8:08 PM

rr3yv0

Wrong.

What you are seeing is the manifestation of the real majority.

Just wait till the election and see how we vote!

As to the tired, worn out, "blame the democrats" empty-excuses of the Republican House majority, that won't help the neocon tea party or their fellow travelers, the Republican Party. It just makes us, the 99%ers, the American majority, think most Republican's are terribly evil, or terribly ignorant, or anti-democracy, or anti-American, or just plain stupid. Take your pick (personally I would pick "all of the above.)

We the People demand an end to conservative obstructionism and an end to the corporatist 0ligarchy and an end to American empire building -- and we have the votes to recreate the Government to do it, if that should be necessary.

That is the way it is RR, get used to it mate because We the People are the deciders -- not the tea party neocons or their rich masters.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Oct 29, 2011, at 8:06 PM

They are so jealous of the Tea Party they need for OWS to take off but it seems to be a fizzle. They seem to be getting in trouble and the lame stream media are portraying the cops and government officials as being the bad guys. These people are the ones violating other people's rights but no reporting about that. And the amazing thing is that people that seem pretty smart are believing it.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Oct 29, 2011, at 8:03 PM

What do Vanilla Ice, Eminem, and Barack Obama have in common?

They've all made careers pretending to be black men.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Oct 29, 2011, at 7:57 PM

You need to be looking to where the heart of the problem is--WASHINGTON DC. That's where all this started and of course some took unfair advantage of it but look to the liberal Democrats mostly Dodd and Frank, Fannie and Freddie and its going to be like dominoes they will all fall. That's where the protesters ought to be.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Oct 29, 2011, at 7:16 PM

Patriotic American Occupy Protesters Arrested for 2nd time in Nashville for Exercising Their 1st Amendment Right to Protest. :

Judge drops all charges against Patriots for 2nd time in Nashville.

Tennessee Republican Governor Exercising Unlawful Authoritarian Rule in Tennessee: Attempt to Bypass State Legislature and Rule by Decree Declared Unlawful by Judge.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45088079/ns/...

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Oct 29, 2011, at 6:34 PM

"American Jesus"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaNOqDarn...

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Oct 28, 2011, at 9:00 PM

"Tennessee judge orders Occupy Nashville protesters released"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/10/28/te...

"Egyptians march in solidarity with 'Occupy Oakland'"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/10/28/eg...

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Oct 28, 2011, at 8:11 PM

Thanks ND. :)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Oct 28, 2011, at 12:16 PM

Oh speaking of solar power,

Just got our bill for the last quarter (3 months). Its the first full quarter since our installation of 12 large solar panels on the roof. It was $37.00 for the entire 3 months. Our bills before that averaged around $600.00 a quarter. Its gone from $200 a month down to $12.33 a month. We plan to put up 12 more next year and start selling electricity back to the electric company...lol. After that we will only be getting a check from them.

Just think how much America could save if they would create a nation-wide solar grid and those savings would translate into lower prices, increased employment, and increased consumption.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Oct 28, 2011, at 3:38 AM

RR

Rush earned the title of drug addict and drug dealer when he chose to engage in the abuse of addictive drugs -- drugs he knew were addictive and which he knew he was using for the "high" -- and when he decided of his own free will to engage in drug trafficking.

That was his doing -- not the messenger's doing.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Oct 28, 2011, at 3:30 AM

rr3yv0

Hey I have an even better idea that will quell the protests.

Let's impose a 100% tax on the entire wealth of the top 1% and a 100% tax on their income then spend the money on direct-hire of the unemployed for government employment with good middle-class wages and benefits, build a nation-wide solar age energy grid system, invest in American small business manufacturing start-ups, and rebuild our infrastructure. Any excess can go to finance a socialized medical system similar to that in France.

I think that would be a much better solution and would take care of a multitude of problems facing our Nation. Its what many would call a good first step.

And before you think that a bit harsh of a solution...well...we could just slap them up on a guillotine and be done with them altogether.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Oct 28, 2011, at 3:26 AM

The corpulent corporates sat down to dine,

on the finest of food, the finest of wine.

Discussed how to fool ignorant masses,

and decided to feed the ignorant arses.

Gave them baloney, and a whole lot of pap,

served by Rush from the plutocrats' lap.

He uses bulb and syringe instead of a spoon,

their faces see no daylight, even at noon.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Oct 28, 2011, at 1:07 AM

Hey back at you Jo. Evenin ND. :)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Oct 28, 2011, at 12:17 AM

"They need to quite furnishing diapers for the OWS protesters, give them some big boy pants tell them to go to work."-rr3

"Injured vet spent days at work, nights at protest"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45071048/ns/...

You think he doesn't wear big boy pants rr3? Shame on you. Read his story then decide if you could fill one leg of his trousers. From what I have seen of you I have my doubts.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Oct 28, 2011, at 12:15 AM

You know, i have had to take a break form all this Political Nonsense for awhile. I have a question about some of these reports you hear, on obvious lies that the Candidates,Strategists, bring up on some of their Interviews.We all know the Journalist cover these things and actually know its B.S. but they still put them on the air.Eric maybe able to answer this, why do they waste time on Interviews they know are bogus? And has he ever had any suggestion on what he can or can not run in the News? Rachel Maddow seems to have enough facts too call them on anything they may say thats bogus. I think that's the reason most won't go for an interview on her show. I haven't seen her call any of them liars,but she comes close.They should be cut off from saying anything, if they do that! We have too have term limits on all these People.No more career Politician! Hey too Nana,Slater, Okla,News Across,White Tornado,were ever you are! Hope all's well with ya! GO TO THE 99%. HANG IN THERE AND GOOD LUCK!

-- Posted by Jo on Thu, Oct 27, 2011, at 10:50 PM

They need to quite furnishing diapers for the OWS protesters, give them some big boy pants tell them to go to work. They could at least work to clean up the mess they are making.

It would really be interesting if this was a bunch of Christians protesting abortion. What would the story be then? Would you support them?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Oct 27, 2011, at 9:43 PM

Wtf maybe I can add some substance to your comment. I don't make excuses for nobody. I don't understand how someone can call a person all kinds of names while accusing said person of calling people names. I doesn't matter who it is, when they do that they are a hypocrite.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Oct 27, 2011, at 9:40 PM

He is also a drug dealer and a drug addict Jo. That is all well documented.

Personally, I don't take political advise from drug dealers and drug addicts.

Some people do -- conservatives -- but only their imaginary friend in the sky seems to know why.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Oct 27, 2011, at 8:32 PM

In my opinion Rush Limbaugh would sell his Children, (if he had any), if the Price was right Sorry ,Sorry, Man! Not because of anything other than the Man he is! A big ZERO!

-- Posted by Jo on Thu, Oct 27, 2011, at 6:36 PM

RR

Please show me where in our Constitution it states that the right to Freedom of Assembly is prohibited in public places and is subject to time limits.

I bet you can't mate

Because it does not say that at all.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Oct 27, 2011, at 5:39 PM

congratulations too the 99%! It's Something i have been wishing for for 20 Years! It bring back the feeling i had back in the 60's! I've had my butt dragged over some curb's or anything that would cause some injuries back then,they would try and grab you just right so the gun Hammer would cut you pretty good if you didn't watch it!They had other tatic,s too! But in the end ,it accomplished something worth while,that was the only thing then and now,that ever got anything done. I wish i could be on the line again! So i hope everyone supports them by Writing you Representatives of approval! Their doing it for All of America,the least us Old Folks can support them!

-- Posted by Jo on Thu, Oct 27, 2011, at 3:18 PM

rr3yvo,

How is that someone who calls himself a christian will constantly makes excuses for the most intolerant people in the world?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Oct 27, 2011, at 1:16 PM

How about just saying that Rush is a documented liar, a documented drug addict, a documented draft dodger, a documented failure in his several personal relationships, and proven by time to have been wrong in many of his predictions. Just the facts. Is that better rr3?

Just saying. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Oct 27, 2011, at 12:53 PM

Smart Dog it seems you are doing the very thing that you are accusing someone else of. When it comes to name calling you're only rebuttal is more name calling. Interesting!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Oct 27, 2011, at 10:53 AM

It is clear that rr3yvo will be a loyalist when the next American Revolution occurs.

On another topic, I find it absolutely hilarious Rush Limbaugh coined the phrase "walking human debris" in regards to those with whom he disagrees.

I find it a fine example of the pot calling the kettle black.

Atta boy, Rush. Nice talk from an overweight guy fraught with anger issues, an overcompensating god complex, and an addiction problem who slanders someone every day and shows no respect or love of country or his fellow man.

I probably can't refer to him as "walking human debris" though, because I am not sure he can walk. Several other adjectives seem appropriate, however: vile, contrarian, immature, boorish, elitist....well, never mind, that list could go on all day.

-- Posted by Smart Dog on Thu, Oct 27, 2011, at 9:06 AM

News these protesters are violating public land by trashing it and occupying public areas keeping other people from using it. What about the rights of the citizens that live near where these protesters are violating? You are not getting the whole story news just what Raw Story wants you to have and you believe it.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Oct 27, 2011, at 6:03 AM

rr3yv0

He had the right to Freedom of Public Assembly and to protest.

The police are violating the rights of the protesters.

...and what happened to all those calls by the teaparty neocons about our Constitution?

I guess we were right when we said they have never even read it...eh mate?

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Oct 27, 2011, at 4:17 AM

Hey wtf what would Jesus do with OWS? I would really like to hear your brilliance on this issue.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Oct 26, 2011, at 11:32 PM

Well what would he do since you think you know? Jesus had nothing to do with him getting hit in the head.

Wtf if I didn't post on here you would have nothing to offer. Glad I can help.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Oct 26, 2011, at 11:14 PM

rr3yvo,

My my my, how very christian of you. What would jesus do, rr3yvo? What would jesus do?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Oct 26, 2011, at 11:01 PM

If they would have dispersed like they were asked to do he wouldn't have got clocked in the head.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Oct 26, 2011, at 10:50 PM

"If Jesus Ran For President..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJ1L4eeu5...

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Oct 26, 2011, at 10:25 PM

"Marine veteran's skull fractured by police projectile at 'Occupy Oakland' protest"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/10/26/ma...

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Oct 26, 2011, at 5:21 PM

Oklahoma Reader

Yeah it was quite an experience mate.

Bre (that is what the locals call Brewarrina) is a very unique place on the Earth. It was hard to leave there and go back to Sydney. Bre is a place that really captured my heart. The people there were all so nice and very friendly, and the history of the place is fascinating.

I am going back to Bre in January for 7 or 8 (or if I am lucky, 10) days. There are some things there that I want to look at which are related to a project I am considering. More on that as things develop (lol). I won't be driving this time however. I plan to take the train to Dubbo -- gateway to the NSW Outback, then I will travel by bus coach to Bre -- 6 hours by train then 6 hours by coach. At least I can drink beer and get a meal on the train lol, but the coach trip will be entirely Outback, dusty, hot, dry and very wild. The good news is that I don't have to do the driving this time and I can sit back and watch the scenery and wildlife while I relax on the coach.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Oct 26, 2011, at 5:19 AM

Sounds like a fun jaunt News. Sounds like a day in the life of Crocodile Dundee mate. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Oct 25, 2011, at 2:19 PM

"'Anonymous' vows to 'destroy' Fox News website on Nov. 5th"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/10/24/an...

Right on! Right on! Right on!

For those dedicated Fox News sheep, I suggest you get your share of Fox News propaganda before November 5th. They won't be around to lie to you anymore after that.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Oct 24, 2011, at 9:49 PM

Hi guys and gals!

I just got back from a trip to the Australian Outback. It was so cool! -- scary, but cool. Its a 12 hour drive, and it was scary because the highways in the outback are very narrow with one lane for each direction -- and I don't mean a divided highway either lol (see photos at link below).

There are some interesting things that go down -- and across -- the "Australian Outback Super-Highway," as I like to refer to it, which includes many, many trucks with over-sized equipment on them, "Road trains," trucks with multiple trailers (all moving at 70 to 80 mph with no intention of slowing down for any reason), 6 foot Kangaroos, Emus, Razorback Boar, and last but not least, cattle crossing the road with seemingly no concern for oncoming traffic.

I went to an Outback Town called Brewarrina (see photos at link below). Its a very remote and isolated, primarily Aboriginal, community. It is referred to in Australia as their version of the Old West. Its a town that time forgot and a fascinating place to see. Almost the buildings in the Town are very old -- 1880's and '90's -- including the Hotel I stayed in. Its a very small community with only 1,121 people but the area has been the traditional fishing grounds of the local Aboriginal people and their ancestors for over 40,000 years. The Fishing traps built in the river have been feeding folks for all of those 40,000 years and are owned and maintained by the Aboriginal People (with full funding by the State) and they fish in them still. They are the only People allowed to actively use this National Monument. We took a tour of the Fish Traps with an Aboriginal guide and its an incredible site to see and learn about. The water is high right now but the hot season has started and the waters recede, the reeds are cleared out, and the traps are used until the next Winter. However, you will clearly see the trap pools (full of reeds right now) with no problem. They are constructed of rock and are a very efficient method of fishing. The Aboriginals simply wait till the various fish swimming upstream find themselves in shallow rock pools designed to trap the fish. Then they simply spear the fish and pull them out -- ready for the pan lol.

We had a great time!

I have created a special facebook page if anyone is interested in seeing the many photos I took while I was there. Just log into your facebook and then go to this link, click on photos, then click on the album entitled "Brewarrina, NSW - Outback Australia, and you will see all the photos I took.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1...

I hope everyone will take a look at them. Its an interesting place.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Oct 22, 2011, at 11:59 PM

Hey, aren't there some bloggers on here that think global warming is a hoax? Seems to me I have seen that here on the MDN.

Well, I reckon after the 4th peer reviewed study, this one partially funded by the Koch's and other conservative groups, verifies those done by NASA, the NOAA, and those British fellers that everybody accused of cheating, were correct.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-enviro...

-- Posted by Smart Dog on Thu, Oct 20, 2011, at 4:18 PM

I thought the OWS was the majority aren't they the 99%'ers.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Oct 20, 2011, at 12:10 PM

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -- Benjamin Franklin

-- Posted by zeke on Thu, Oct 20, 2011, at 8:16 AM

rr3yvo

Considering the things you have admitted to believing, I'm not sure you have any room to call anyone else stupid.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Oct 20, 2011, at 8:09 AM

Bumper sticker

DON'T STEAL: The government hates competition.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Oct 20, 2011, at 6:15 AM

Afraid now that's funny, It's more like they're STUPID just like our VP.

All Huffy, Joe Biden Stands By Rape Reference to GOP

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?i...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Oct 20, 2011, at 6:14 AM

...why are you so scared of OWS?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Oct 20, 2011, at 5:52 AM

You really believe that!!! Come on now we aren't that naive now are we?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Oct 19, 2011, at 5:38 PM

No one is in charge of OWS.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Oct 19, 2011, at 4:47 PM

'Sybil' is one big psych-out

Author exposes split-personality 'lie'

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/sybil...

This is an agenda driven hoax becoming scientific fact. Sound familiar? Has anyone heard of global warming? "Anything dominated by liberals you have perverse corruption, lies, outright fraud and hoaxes all for the express purpose of controlling people, all because they want to control everybody." Who do you think is in charge of OWS? HMMMMMMMMMM!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Oct 19, 2011, at 3:12 PM

Heh! Heh! Heh!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Oct 19, 2011, at 2:39 PM

No,once again you are wrong. Swing and a miss.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Oct 19, 2011, at 9:09 AM

Nostalgia & Decline

http://www.redstate.com/erick/2011/10/19...

Interesting!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Oct 19, 2011, at 6:02 AM

Swing....GRAND SLAM!!!!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Oct 19, 2011, at 5:51 AM

rr3yvo,

I'll admit to a misspelled word. What will you admit to? Do you have the capacity to think for yourself? I'll wait while you go and and ask someone.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Oct 19, 2011, at 4:43 AM

What's the difference between liberalism and communism?

The communist admits it.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Oct 18, 2011, at 9:18 PM

P-L-A-G-I-A-R-I-Z-E..............plagiarize

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Oct 18, 2011, at 9:14 PM

rr3yvo,

Careful, FOX sues those who plagerize.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Oct 18, 2011, at 8:45 PM

Obama and Occupy Wall Street Are One

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?i...

Their anger and outrage is directed to everyone but the ones that caused this mess, their fellow leftist.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Oct 18, 2011, at 8:35 PM

If capitalism was allowed to run its course many of these banks would have went under and some of the corporations would have went under and wall street would have taken a hit too. But no we had crony capitalism in the form of government bailouts so why aren't these OWS protesters at Washington instead of wall street? True capitalism would have taken care of many of the problems they are protesting. Does that really matter though? No because this is the hard left bunch, these are not 99 percenters. These people are prone to violence and would be willing to take other people's money because the liberal media and the liberals in Washington told them so. This will come back to bite the Democrats for embracing this as a legitimate deal. It will bite them as soon as it gets out of hand.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Oct 18, 2011, at 8:20 PM

Bumbling Obama Campaign Tour Hits Virginia As Democrats Run for Cover

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?i...

"Obama's perfectly situated for his campaign. His supporters are turning on him, Wall Street can't stand him and the general public can't wait to get rid of him. Other than that he's doing great."

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Oct 18, 2011, at 8:09 PM

eric - thanks for the clarification re: the origin of the internet ... you are right on ... however - my point was just that - without capitalism we wouldn't have the net as we know it today ... or maybe i should say access to the technology that we have today ... we all hail the deeds of gates and jobs, etc., but they (and their corporations) made a lot of money doing what they did ... i agree with wtf - the problem lies in the selling of our government to the highets bidder ... it's ridiculous ... and maybe too big to fight ... who knows ...

-- Posted by zeke on Tue, Oct 18, 2011, at 12:23 PM

Captialism is NOT the enemy. We have to consume in order to give others employment. What is the enemy is the buying and selling of our govt and our laws.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Oct 18, 2011, at 11:15 AM

Zeke,

Not to argue the point you're making, but I have to offer a clarification, only because it's a bit of history not many seem to be familiar with.

The Internet was developed by scientists and technologists primarily using U.S. defense department funding. It was gradually opened to commercial development in the early 1990s, but the technology was created with public funds and enhanced by university researchers long before it became the world of commerce we know today.

See the book, "Where Wizards Stay Up Late: The Origins Of The Internet."

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Tue, Oct 18, 2011, at 10:58 AM

the keyboard you are typing on ... the opinion space you are writing in ... the internet you are so used to ... probably the cup you drink coffee from each day ... all made possible by capitalists. ... what can we do? ... we need capitalism to fuel our disposable lifestyles ... it's the way of the world ... i don't agree with it ... but it's the way it is ... we reap the benefits of the corporate world but hate it atthe same time .. remember the old listerine commericals? ... i hate, but i use it. ... that's us.

-- Posted by zeke on Tue, Oct 18, 2011, at 10:35 AM

I would like to point out an issue that is one of my own and im sure countless others. The issue would happen to be run down rental properties and the landlords that do not care about the neighborhood in which they are ruining. Let me point out that there are plenty of good landlords out there and im not speaking of you. But what happened to the idea of a yearly inspection of rental property to keep the "slum-lords" in line and protect the lives of the individuals living in them, furthermore holding the landlords accountable for allowing individuals to live in unsafe unsanitary conditions and ruining the value of homes that people own in those communities. The laws seem to protect the very people who wish to break them.

AM I WRONG TO FEEL THIS WAY?

-- Posted by dsgusted on Mon, Oct 17, 2011, at 9:14 PM

NanaDot

When neocons (aka teapartiers) say they want "smaller government" what they mean is they want (1) to eliminate all government programs that benefit the poor, (2) less regulation of business, and (3) increased regulations of individuals.

Just so we are clear on what "smaller government" means when a neocon teapartier uses that phrase.

I do not support their idea of smaller government and I doubt you do either.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Oct 16, 2011, at 3:25 PM

The thought occurs to me that people choose to rely on their emotions, or their rational minds, sometimes both. Sadly the majority do not have the opportunity to make the choice.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Oct 16, 2011, at 1:58 PM

And to all those teaparty-neocon nut cases attempting to paint the brave young men and women who are demonstrating against the out of control capitalism in the USA as "dirty, smelly, hippies," please bare in mind that for each young person you see there are 1000's of people back home who agree with them...and we don't smell,...and we have money...and we vote.

The teaparty is over.

A new day is dawning and the promising light of a new direction for our Nation can finally be seen.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Oct 15, 2011, at 5:09 PM

Oh there is more than one protest going on rr lol.

...and you aint seen nothin' yet lol lol lol.

We will be putting some of those big bankers on trial and putting them in prison for a long time.

The only question at this point is do we hang their teaparty mouthpieces with them?

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Oct 15, 2011, at 3:10 PM

rr3yvo,

What you just stated is utter nonsense. The whole arguement is not about captialism or taxes per se, both are necessary. The arguement is that the the hyper wealthy have bought OUR govt. lock, stock and barrel. Now they can manipulate the laws with impunity in their favor and the rest of us can eat cake. Do you not see this? Do you refuse to see this?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Oct 15, 2011, at 9:53 AM

Cheesy I'm don't know the details of the 999 plan. Are you commenting from a point of knowledge or speculation with no knowledge?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Oct 15, 2011, at 9:06 AM

Fair, Fair, Fair that is what is nonsense Nana. You won't define it because you can't. You want to empower the government to to take what you can't. "Thou shall not covet" one of the ten commandments but you don't believe that because it don't fit your argument. This protest is nonsense but it fits your agenda so you will lift it up. I am right on the money, you are wrong.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Oct 15, 2011, at 9:04 AM

You tell lies long enough, to some it becomes fact! The Politicians have found this out. That the Journalist will keep on Printing it, when they know the actual Facts themselves! Why is this happening? Are People stupid? I have almost given up looking for the actual facts. Maybe that's what the liars are depending on,wearing you down with disgust for everyone. You know we did it too ourselves by giving the Majority back in Congress. Obama wasted everyone's time when they had the Majority! I'm looking at some of these (supposedly) Democrats. Third Party Absolutely!! I hope everyone has signed the Bernie Sanders Proposal on getting the Money out of Politic,I seen it on Dylan Ratigan show!

-- Posted by Jo on Fri, Oct 14, 2011, at 10:45 PM

"Herman Cain Frustrated That People Are Misinterpreting His 'Nein-Nein-Nein' Economic Plan"

http://www.freewoodpost.com/2011/10/13/h...

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Oct 14, 2011, at 4:59 PM

"Jesus Christ Files Lawsuit Against GOP For Slander"

"When asked about the lawsuit, House Speaker John Boehner stated,

'I don't know where Mr. Christ thinks the Bible says to help the poor and the sick, but that sounds awfully socialistic to me, and we are not a socialist country"

http://www.freewoodpost.com/2011/09/05/j...

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Oct 14, 2011, at 4:44 PM

cheesehead

Have you noticed he didn't say that the corps would pay 9% on their gross revenues did he? lol. There is a reason why he failed to mention that the corps still get all their deductions and loopholes.

I say if we are going to go with Cain's plan then everyone -- individuals as well as corporations -- all get the same deductions or we eliminate all deductions and tax both corps and individuals at the same rate -- taxed on their gross income -- nothing more, nothing less.

Watch how fast the rich folks back on off of that one lol lol lol...

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Oct 14, 2011, at 4:01 PM

Does anyone believe this Cain who is running for President? He says his 9-9-9 plan will add 6 million jobs. I would like the people who believe this to raise their hands?

In my opinion this is a slap in the face to informed voters. I wonder how Fox news is going to push this one across and did I mention his plan will raise taxes on the middle class and lower taxes for the rich.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Fri, Oct 14, 2011, at 8:04 AM

How you can tell when a liberal is losing the argument.

They attack your morality, for example:

If you are discussing immigration and they disagree you are a 'racist'.

If you are worried about radical Islam then you are 'Islamophobic'.

If you want your kids to get the best education you are an 'elitist'.

If you think marriage requires one man and one woman then you are 'homophobic'.

If you think there are obvious differences between men and women then you are a 'sexist'.

They think their opponent is so evil that their truth is tainted by their depravity. But the liberal thinks that being nice and good and caring that they win.

In a fact based debate the conservative always wins unless the liberal can destroy their character. Because that is all they have, just look at the current presidential campaign are they running on their successes or blaming and attempting to destroy their opponent? You decide.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Oct 14, 2011, at 6:37 AM

OKR

Sounds good to me.

and yeah it was a great letter.

Thanks ND for posting that.

I for one am tired of getting the "slip mahoney" end of the stick.

Well it will be interesting to see if any of the honorable opposition will be up to the challenge.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Oct 14, 2011, at 1:52 AM

ND that is an excellent link. Yes that is what Liberals want.

X-ray, rr3, Jason69, and the rest, did you read that? Quit telling Liberals what they want. You don't know unless we tell you.

If you want discussion don't start by telling us what we want, and then arguing against what you say we want. Do you have any idea how absurd that is?

Here is a repeat of the link ND provided in case you didn't read it. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/10/12...

I am telling you that is what we want, and I believe most Liberals would agree with my statement. So, I will be waiting, but not holding my breath until it happens, for you to discuss, even argue against the position stated in the link.

One would think you would be tired of blowing up a plastic dummy with your own hot air, naming it Liberal, and knocking it over. Are you up to really bringing it on?

By the way turn about is fair play. Pick your own conservative comment stating what conservatives want, provide a link, and I will be happy to discuss it, and argue against it if I disagree. I also think others would.

Don't be throwing Rush, or Coulter out there. You may not know it, but they are at the bottom of the conservate barrel, and there are other much better spoke persons for conservatism.

One caveat. I expect an answer to the above challenge before I will honor yours.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Oct 14, 2011, at 12:27 AM

Oh one other thing x-ray

I think its the Christianist and other conservative, American terrorists we are most worried about in the USA. After all, the Christianist and other conservative terrorists have attacked us a heck of a lot more than the Arabs have.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_t...

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/pu...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-aborti...

http://www.alternet.org/teaparty/151751/...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Oct 13, 2011, at 11:33 PM

mrxray

It would have saved a lot of lives if we had created a Palestinian State a long time ago.

They Arabs hate us because the last thing the Palestinian sees just before the Israeli tank crushes his house so the Israelis can steal his property and build a Jewish-only settlement out of it, is "Made in America."

If you want to solve the problem of terrorism then do what the Brits did with the Irish mate -- negotiate an equitable settlement that respects everyone's civil rights.

Otherwise, get used to terrorists I guess.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Oct 13, 2011, at 11:14 PM

mrxray

I was surprised you didn't mention the attack on the USS Liberty...by the Israeli Air Force...in International waters.

http://www.usslibertyveterans.org/

Odd that how we never even responded to it.

Anyway, here are a couple of things you may want to keep in mind regarding your wars.

1.) Your wars are un-winnable

2.) Your wars are wiping out the American economy.

3.) You are creating the groundwork for making over 1.5 billion people extremely angry at America for generations to come.

Good luck with that...

Lol...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Oct 13, 2011, at 10:09 PM

what the f... in no respect can you attribute wars to conservative or liberal ideals...

Here is a curious question for you... since you seem to be all knowing and all against war of any nature.... we are at war with terror and terrorist that is a fact. We were attacked by them many times. Since YOU have no clue about what the President of the United States if actually briefed about (not saying I do either) exactly what would you have done differently... I know being an arm chair Quarterback with 20/20 vison after the fact, you MUST know everything, so please tell us how YOU would prevent more terrorist acts against the US...

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Oct 13, 2011, at 9:16 PM

Here is a little video dedicated to all our conservatives.

Its your kinda rap mates, please enjoy.

"Wall Street Rap" - Bob Roberts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2af69xt0V...

and while I am at it, here is another.

Bob Roberts, "Complain"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zY5d1kpJ...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Oct 13, 2011, at 5:48 PM

Oh sorry, I meant cheesehead...not ND

That was hilarious mate.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Oct 13, 2011, at 5:17 PM

ND

Great link!!! Lol...I couldn't stop laughing.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Oct 13, 2011, at 5:16 PM

Obama's approval rating soars after slugging banker in the face.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/10/12/pa...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Thu, Oct 13, 2011, at 4:58 PM

Oh yeah, I forgot.

I think Cain scares politicians on both sides.

Unlike someone else we all know, he seems to be 'rogueish' without being such a shameless money-grubber and lunatic.

I believe he may actually have paid attention in American History class, for example.

I don't see him towing the party line for anybody. Not sure where he stands on all those pesky social non-issues that makes voters vote though.

My worry is this. I know a few very successful CEO's personally. A bit of a strech, but if he is anything like those that I know, having that type of guy for president would be plenty scary all on it's own.

Most of those folks don't think any of the rules apply to them, or that they are obligated to listen to anyone else. They are the proverbial 1%, who believe they are better than the rest, and dang proud of it.

Herman seems well grounded and practical, but he is no doubt the "INJT" personality type, long on narcissism, short on compassion.

That would be my concern.

-- Posted by Smart Dog on Thu, Oct 13, 2011, at 4:47 PM

WTF,

Clearly he is talking about conservative values.

I am listing the values we have seen in conservative action below for clarity.

CONSERVATIVE FAMILY VALUES:

1.) Imperialism is good, Democracy bad.

2.) Torture is a humanitarian act.

3.) Breaking American law is allowed as long as its a conservative breaking the law.

4.) Lying is a good thing if it advances the conservative causes -- like war.

5.) Warrantless spying on American citizens is fine despite the fact that its unconstititutional and against the law (see conservative value number 3 for more on this).

6.) Adultery is the right thing to do, as long as its a conservative committing the adultery.

7.) Gay marriage is always wrong but it is perfectly acceptable for closeted, conservative gay politicians to wait in airport restrooms and make sexual advances to all who enter -- including police officers.

8.) Demonstrations by anyone NOT a conservative should be made illegal.

9.) Voter Fraud (IE, Ann Coulter) is perfectly acceptable as long as the politician being voted for multiple times by a voter is a conservative.

10.) Stealing is perfectly acceptable as long as the thief is a conservative politician or a rich conservative.

Well the list just goes on and on mate.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Oct 13, 2011, at 4:35 PM

My apologies to Libertarian's everywhere. Since that didn't look quite right, I had to look up how to spell it. Doh!

-- Posted by Smart Dog on Thu, Oct 13, 2011, at 4:33 PM

x-ray,

I guess that, or a liberaterian. Not really what I meant to do though.

Think Cain has a chance? Looks to me like the GOP is putting all their money on Romney.

-- Posted by Smart Dog on Thu, Oct 13, 2011, at 4:31 PM

xray,

Are those the same conservative values that got us an illegal war and put it on a credit card? Are they also the conservative values that now applauds the fact that the US tortures people?

are those the values you are talking about?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Oct 13, 2011, at 2:15 PM

Well wtf what would you do?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Oct 13, 2011, at 11:21 AM

smart dog... lol you calling me an ultra right winger?

I think that Cain speaks his mind and is most definitely NOT an establishment politician which is refreshing on both counts. I like what I hear so far, but at this point I would be concerned about his foreign policy experience or concepts, but this is mostly because I have not read nor heard him discuss this aspect of politics as of yet.

I think that he scares Obama and the Dems because he is yet another example of a minority who learned conservative values; doing the hard work, not blaming anyone else, not expecting someone else or the government to pick up the check, and the other conservative values, and then used these learned values to become a huge success in the business world. I think that this aspect of his life will resonate with many people regardless of their political leanings as long as the message gets out there. Dems seem to think that minorities ALL suffer too many societal obstacles therefore they should all just give up and accept government assistance and social welfare/justice programs instead of doing the hard work, suffering through the hard times so that you feel great about the success on the other side of the obstacles. Every time someone like Herman Cain or a woman with several kids, a long term family, or any other minority type provides America an example of how the entitlement mindset really just prevents you from real success by going against what the Dems demand minorities do or behave.... this irritates them and scares them.... God forbide that someone not be like Al Sharpton or professor West or Jesse Jackson.... you already see how they are calling him names and accusing him of only being a puppet of some conservative evil white guy... lol

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Oct 13, 2011, at 10:49 AM

Hey, rr3 and xray,

I would be interested in hearing your opinions on Herman Cain. Not trying to make any statements or stir up anything here.

I would sincerely like to hear from the blogs resident conservatives about him.

I thought the 'flat tax' concepts of Steve Forbes had some credibility back when I also thought republicans had somethng to contribute to government back in the last century.

I'm curious how the libertarian and ultra-right see Cain, and his views, today.

-- Posted by Smart Dog on Thu, Oct 13, 2011, at 8:55 AM

OKR

Please let me be clear.

In no way was I criticizing Mr Coulter's obvious gender-changing decisions. I have nothing but respect for good men like Mr. Coulter and another famous American man, Mr. Chaz Bono.

I admire the courage of Mr. Coulter and Mr. Bono to take the medical steps necessary to permanently establish the gender they are each comfortable with.

However, while I find Mr. Bono to be a man of reason who has a good understanding of the political and economic problems facing our great Nation at this difficult time, I find Mr. Coulter's political commentary to be laced in misinformation and, often times, with absolutely no basis in fact what-so-ever.

I hope this clears up any confusion regarding my opinion of Mr Coulter's gender-changing decision. It his his right to be a man, and I strongly support his right to choose his gender.

I wish Dan Coulter the best of luck and I hope he has finds that special lady that I know is out there waiting for him. Could wedding bells be in store for Dan Coulter? Let's hope so!

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Oct 13, 2011, at 1:02 AM

There is a bizarre dissonance when one quotes the Bible in one breath, and Ann Coulter in the next. Wow rr3!

News, Dan Coulter, LOL (not that their is anything wrong with transsexuals). I have heard that they are outraged that some assign Coulter to their community. I guess the only ones who wanted a part of Ann Coulter were his re-assignment surgeon, and the worst portion of the knuckle dragging right.

(rewritten and reposted before Eric makes my comment nevernet history)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Oct 12, 2011, at 10:44 PM

Speaking of kids living in Mom's basement...

"James O'Keefe lives with his parents"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/10/12/an...

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Oct 12, 2011, at 10:02 PM

Oh sorry, lol,

RR my last comment was designed for you my friend -- to lend guidance in these trying times.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Oct 12, 2011, at 9:53 PM

Well, while you are deciding what your next step will be, you may want to include "never listening to anything Dan Coulter has to say."

Dan Coulter has a been busted so many times just making things up -- yep out of thin air. Some of his notables are end notes to nothing in his book -- yep, make a claim in a senatence, put the end note number or letter on it, then when you look it up in the end notes there is no such number or letter.

The guy has no class at all mate.

Your best bet is sticking with the 99% of the population anyway mate. I don't think there enough 1%ers to save the rich or their running dog lackies. Now might be a good time to re-evaluate your position regarding the 99%ers -- before events unfold to the point where you no longer have that option.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Oct 12, 2011, at 9:52 PM

rr3 who you for as President in 2012? Why?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Oct 12, 2011, at 9:44 PM

rr3yvo,

You're trying to hard. Is that the best slam you can come up with? Once again, swing and a miss.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Oct 12, 2011, at 9:28 PM

You know I am torn whether to go to work as a protester or sit at home and collect unemployment what would you do?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Oct 12, 2011, at 8:37 PM

Wingless, Bloodsucking and Parasitic: Meet the Flea Party!

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?i...

"This is the flea party, not the tea party."

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Oct 12, 2011, at 8:06 PM

His gun was loaded, and so was he,

driving the highway proud, and free.

He wants the same rights for you, and me.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44878611/ns/...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Oct 12, 2011, at 5:29 PM

Folks I for one am sick and tired that now just because 99% of Americans are angry at Wall Street, the rest of us have to suffer.

THE TEA PARTY DOES NOT LIKE TO BE IGNORED!!

So in order to bring balance and order back into the mix, I am proud to present the following public service announcement from our friends at the Tea Party:

"Why Dummies Want to Forget the Tea Party Ancestry"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiaI63pBm...

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Oct 12, 2011, at 3:50 PM

"Economist blasts GOP's 'seven biggest economic lies'"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/10/12/ec...

When you are sick you go to an doctor.

When you are being sued you go to an attorney.

When you need to get your financial business in order, you see your accountant.

But in American instead of consulting the professionals on the economy, aka Economists, Americans rely on the teaparty non-experts.

What is wrong with this picture?

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Oct 12, 2011, at 2:30 PM

Okla; In my opinion, until the entire system is restructure, there is no one or anything going to happen in this Country,but failure! But what do i know?

-- Posted by Jo on Wed, Oct 12, 2011, at 2:20 PM

I have yet to see this blog's contributing conservatives mention a candidate that they support in regard to the 2012 presidential election. Occasionally they do state, though with little emphasis, that yes, the Republicans also failed us before going back to pounding Obama, and liberal congress.

It is almost as if after their Obama/liberal inspired diatribes they are exhausted, and don't have strength, or will to say any thing else.

So, how about it, who do you believe is the best choice to lead our nation as we go forward, at least in time, if not otherwise?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Oct 12, 2011, at 10:42 AM

rr3yvo said:

"What's amazing is that seemingly intelligent people are buying into this big sham..."

Sound familiar? Sounds an awful lot like those who buy into religion doesn't it?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Oct 12, 2011, at 10:38 AM

Greed & Hippies Properly Understood

http://www.redstate.com/erick/2011/10/12...

What's amazing is that seemingly intelligent people are buying into this big sham. It's going to get worse though because it is in Obama's campaign play book to distract from his failures to be reelected. I guess if you think this is all legit then keep voting Democrat.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Oct 12, 2011, at 6:01 AM

Nope ND. If the little fascists think like the big fascists, the big fascists leave them alone.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Oct 11, 2011, at 10:52 PM

News it's not my land, and it's not Woody's land, any more.

When the last century was new, as was Oklahoma, it was the most progressive/populist state in the nation. The state constitution those folks came up with is still a thorn in the side of revisionists, even after eighty years of their often successful attacks on it.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Oct 11, 2011, at 10:48 PM

The ultra-wealthy may need thier money to build higher walls. Let'em eat cake.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Oct 11, 2011, at 6:59 PM

Oh hey look!

Its a documentary about the French Revolution!

"The French Revolution" 1/9

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EvakM9Wa...

I sure hope the 1%ers are a watchin'.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Oct 11, 2011, at 5:11 PM

Oops..

Make that "either 'you're' with us or you're against us."

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Oct 11, 2011, at 4:57 PM

Its time to start drawing lines folks.

Either your with us (the 99%ers) or you're against us.

There is no middle.

Time to make important, potentially life-changing decisions.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Oct 11, 2011, at 4:56 PM

mrxray

Well one thing is for sure mate,...

We know which side you are on (the side of the 1%).

That knowledge may come in handy when this thing is over mate.

I think this thing may get a lot bigger than you and other pro-1%ers seem to think...and a lot worse for some.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Oct 11, 2011, at 4:53 PM

OKR,

How sad that the State that gave us Woody Guthrie seems to be one of the most oppressive States in the Union.

In that case mate, yeah, least of 2 evils.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Oct 11, 2011, at 4:50 PM

There is nothing wrong with captialism, profits or corporations per se, but when these entities buy the government it is time to push back. Our supreme court should be impeached as well.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Oct 11, 2011, at 10:34 AM

X you said, "Freedom, American Freedom, is the ability to make individual choices and then suffer the rewards or consequences of said choices... what you are saying is that the government, a body made up of a corrupted process, campaign donations for legislation bribery, and fraud, waste and a political class that considers their selves better than us common folks, is somehow a better mechanism to make choices for us. You proclaim that the political process is broke YET you want those same politicians to make all of our choices for us, pick business and industry winners and losers, tell people how much money is too much money to obtain and then tax them to death."

That is not at all what ND was saying. You are good at putting words in other's mouths.

None of us on the left are saying that we want the sorry politicians (essentially corporate shills) who now are in the majority to make our choices for us, in fact there is little difference between them, and the corporate greedaholics. We don't want either of those groups running things. That is unlike you who has chosen rotten corporates, over rotten congress. Why is it that you can not recognize that they are but two sides of the same coin?

Greed must be controlled. It is preposterous to believe that the greedy should control themselves which is what you advocate. It is equally preposterous to believe that those that the greedy buy elections for will control greed. That is what you falsely accuse the left of doing.

Get this, and please address your future comments to what we believe if you value credibility. We want a REFORMED GOVERNMENT, elected by, and in tune with the needs of all human citizens. We want to pay for elections with our tax dollars. We want each viable candidate to have an equal voice when seeking office. We do not want corporations, nor unions for that matter, paying for campaigns.

Get real, or get laughed at.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Oct 11, 2011, at 10:19 AM

Mr. X Ray you are a libertarian only when it is a convenience to persuasion. Actually you appear most to be one of those shills for corporate takeover. Are they paying you for it?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Oct 11, 2011, at 9:36 AM

Why would a wealthy guy back a cause that rallies against the wealthy?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Oct 11, 2011, at 7:16 AM

Yes, because as we all know, only the religious are moral.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Oct 11, 2011, at 6:01 AM

conservative free markets DO work... news... the problem is that we have liberal progressive politicos corrupting the process with restrictive rules and regulations that prevents the free market from eliminating the bad business models and where the corrupted politicians pick and choose who the winners and the losers are, where they bailout bad businesses at the expense of the tax payers who fund the bailouts and the mom and pop investors who were simply trying to provide for their own retirement. free market is not a failed system, OUR political system where we totally function based on who gives career politicians money to bribe into existence laws and rules that favor them. This is exactly why a big and growing government is HARMFUL. this is what happens when we allow the two party establishment political process to have career political people that rule from upon Mount D.C. When our society has a section of progressive liberals who attempt to get rid of every single aspect of religion and prevent the encouragement of good morals and ethics and rewards those in political positions when they do bad things by not self policing, then of course the free market will not function... G. Washington and other stated we had to have people of high morals, even men of religious virtues, or this great experiment of the Republic of the United States would FAIL. And because this political corruption, NOT capitalism or free market failure, has been going on for so long the citizens are frustrated, apathetic and have given up hope that anything will change and therefore they become easily swayed by things like the concept of taking from the rich to support a progressive addiction to spending or the concept that the rich are evil simply because they are rich.

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Oct 11, 2011, at 4:04 AM

News. because you claim the tea party is nothing more than some corporate manipulation and because the Occupy wall street is backed by George Soros and Unions and other corporate type organizations where is your outrage that OWS is a corporate manipulation as well? LOL Hypocrite

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Oct 11, 2011, at 3:53 AM

OKR.... do we sit and wait for a jury to decide if an enemy combatant deserves to die for shooting at our soldiers? Terrorism and those behind it are no different than any other enemy military combatant, except they hide behind civilians and school buildings and a religion

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Oct 11, 2011, at 3:51 AM

nanadot... based on YOUR logic, if someone favors NOT taking from the rich simply because they happen to be rich, then if you are for wealth redistribution then YOU HAVE TO BE in favor of communist, Marxism and socialism. Therefore YOU are a shill for the communist party of the united states and/or any socialist party in the US.

Freedom, American Freedom, is the ability to make individual choices and then suffer the rewards or consequences of said choices... what you are saying is that the government, a body made up of a corrupted process, campaign donations for legislation bribery, and fraud, waste and a political class that considers their selves better than us common folks, is somehow a better mechanism to make choices for us. You proclaim that the political process is broke YET you want those same politicians to make all of our choices for us, pick business and industry winners and losers, tell people how much money is too much money to obtain and then tax them to death.

Anyone who buys into the class warfare arguments is buying into the propaganda from the communist parties of the 1900s....

Does our political process need fixed? SURE. But when you blame capitalism, an inanimate entity for our woes, then you FAIL to understand what the real problem is. the REAL problem is American apathy, Citizens giving up hope because it seems like nothing will ever change the whole situation we have because we have OVER PAID politicians in DC that get there and NEVER have to rely upon their constituents for their future financial well being so there is no check and balance for people sent to DC. And because the establishment politico group in DC, that includes BOTH parties and all of their advisers and managers and lobbyists and etc, is SO powerful NOTHING changes. Spending is increase exponentially ONLY because they know the MORE tax they impose on the lowly normal citizens the more power they have and the less likely they will be removed from their palaces.... It is NOT capitalism that is a fault NOR the rich people alone...... Wall streeters play by the rules that the corrupted political process create and modify in an attempt to garner more campaign dollars.... Human nature at ANY socio-economic level dictates that one looks out for ones self.... Political corruption and providing favorable legislation in exchange for more campaign dollars is NO different than the quest to abuse and fraudulently manipulate the rules of social welfare programs so you never have to work again, or so you can go out and buy the newest cell phones, hightops or support your smoking habit..... selfishness is NOT the affliction of the rich... Life is unfair and no amount of laws or wealth redistribution will make life fair or even fairer... people go get things for NOTHING will continue to exploit the system to get more just as the rich will exploit the system to get more.

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Oct 11, 2011, at 3:49 AM

News no write in vote is legal, we have the most restrictive ballot access law in the nation requring a greater percentage of voters sign an access petition than any other state.

Yes, I have done all the things you mention. As it stands now I will be partially disenfrachised in 2012, as I may only choose between the two tawdry parties' candidates.

There is a ray of hope as there is a ballot access bill working it's way through the legislature. We'll see.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Oct 10, 2011, at 11:33 PM

"Slavoj Zizek: Marriage between democracy and capitalism is over"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/10/10/sl...

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Oct 10, 2011, at 10:36 PM

Oklahoma Reader

Have you considered all the options?

Do you know all the options available in Oklahoma?

Have you contacted the Green Party to see what they are doing in terms of organizing candidacies in Oklahoma?

Is there a write in option on the ballot, if not, why not?

Are there other like-minded folks in Oklahoma who would be willing to work to make the changes necessary for a democratic election process in your State?

Do democracy and the future of Oklahoma and the United States of America matter?

Have we all just given up out of frustration?

I think those kids in the OWS Movement sure haven't given up. I don't think they are willing to accept the demise of democracy in America, and I don't think they intend to give up. They should be an inspiration for us boomers.

And never forget mate, we boomers have changed the World before. The Civil Rights movement, the ending of the Vietnam War. Its down right amazing what we boomers can do when we set our minds to it.

We CAN do this mate! Together and standing united , we boomers can win this struggle to save our great Nation!

"If I Had A Hammer"

Pete Seeger

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSWQfCkdu...

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Oct 10, 2011, at 5:32 PM

News I would vote Green Party, had I that option. Unfortunately Oklahoma is one of many states in which the Green Party does not have ballot access. My further misfortune is that Oklahoma has the most repressive standards in our nation regarding third party access. That is of course due to collusion between the Republican Party, and what passes for the Democratic Party.

http://www.gp.org/committees/ballot/inde...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Oct 10, 2011, at 4:56 PM

"The case for a third party candidate"

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/101...

Don't let the Democrats and Republicans con you folks, we do have options. Its up to each of us to decide the question, do we accept lower and lower living standards till we are living in shacks and using outhouses, or do we do something to stop the decline of our Nation?

Please, do something to change it! Vote 3rd Party!

Green Party USA

http://www.gp.org/index.php

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Oct 10, 2011, at 4:42 PM

CORRECTION:

In my last comment, I meant to say "I cannot help but wonder."

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Oct 10, 2011, at 4:08 PM

Ya know watching as events unfold in America, I cannot wonder just how bad things have to get for the average Joe and Jane in America before they realize that conservative, free-market economies don't work?

I mean, if I was living in America, I would be very concerned at the loss of living standards.

Well I will keep watching. This should be interesting. Its like watching someone who keeps dropping a rock on his foot and complaining that he can't figure out why his foot hurts so much. I keep wondering when he will figure out that dropping a rock on his foot is not going to make it feel better lol lol lol.

One of the days Americans might wake up...when they get hungry enough.

And really, its so simple.

Conservative, free-market capitalism doesn't work -- yet you keep electing conservatives.

Lol lol lol lol...so, how is that free-market capitalism working out for you?

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Oct 10, 2011, at 4:06 PM

It appears to me that Obama, and those others who have designs on becoming his challenger, all either misunderstand what the people want, or are afraid to deliver it. That is why neither Obama, nor any of his prospective opponents are delivering a message that resonates with the populis.

If this is the best that politics has to offer us we are in for another ho hum election with people dragging themselves to the polls out of duty, not desire, and holding their noses as they vote for the slightly lesser evil.

If this is the best they can produce there will be abandonment of the process by the younger citizens who do get the one message that comes through loud, and clear, none of them really give a darn about the people. Consequently, as they have in the past, the young will choose different routes to make a difference.

We have to wonder why is there not even one populist candidate from either party, at this time when we all are desperate for someone, anyone, to represent us, and tell us what they will do about the continued destruction of the middle class. When we all want someone, anyone to share a vision, even fresh ideas, and no one speaks, no one steps up, it may be that we are truly done as a functioning democratic republic.

In the absence of a benevolent response from the political establishment the people will take to the streets sooner, or later.

A political response to that discord may be the only way we will ever get our troops home. It would be just like our malfunctioning government to bring the troops home at the wrong time for the wrong reason, just as our malfunctioning government sent them off at the wrong time for the wrong reason.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Oct 9, 2011, at 11:12 PM

rr3yv0

Our Nation should lead by example mate. A good step in that direction would be re-establishing democracy and the rule of law in the USA.

However, I read the entire Romney speech word for word and what he appears to be calling for is American economic and military domination of the World. Such imperialism is in direct conflict with our traditional American values and is something our Founding Fathers would have associated with the pro-British, pro-King George American Colonists -- or "loyalists" as they were known then.

Romney is right about one thing though...he certainly is not the person I want in Government in any form or manner. I am an American who respects our cherished national tradition of democracy and freedom, our Founding Fathers and the other brave Americans who fought to establish the World's greatest democracy, fought for our freedom, and fought against imperialism -- imperialism that Mr. Romney says he favors.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Oct 9, 2011, at 7:35 PM

ROMNEY: An eloquently justified surrender of world leadership is still surrender. I will not surrender America's role in the world. This is very simple. If you do not want America to be the strongest nation on earth, I'm not your president. You have that president today.

I'm not saying that Romney should be the nominee but I do like the point he made.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Oct 9, 2011, at 6:53 PM

Herman Cain Endures Lecture on Blackness from MSNBC White Guy

http://conservativebyte.com/2011/10/herm...

"This is the kind of thing that makes me think we are never going to overcome this divide because of the left. Now, they claim that they are the ones who are colorblind, they are the ones who are open-minded and tolerant, when in fact they are the biggest bigots among all of us."

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Oct 9, 2011, at 6:48 PM

The Democrats Envy the Tea Party, So They Created a Bad Imitation

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2011/1...

That's funny news.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Oct 9, 2011, at 6:44 PM

"Editor admits to 'infiltrating' D.C. protest to undermine 'Occupy' movement"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/10/09/ed...

Lol...the teaparty neocons will stop at nothing to achieve their hidden corporatist agenda. Even violating every journalistic ethic is fine with them as long as they can achieve their hidden corporatist agenda.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Oct 9, 2011, at 3:58 PM

Hey remember when neocon teaparty suckers used to complain about "special interests" -- you know, lobbying? Now they seem to love lobbyists lol lol lol...

While teaparty neocons are well known to be pretty reprehensible, to say the least, at least they could start being consistent...lol.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Oct 9, 2011, at 3:44 PM

...that should have read rooting for our "team".

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Oct 9, 2011, at 2:15 PM

rr3yvo,xray aand anyone else who takes the OWS lightly,

If we look at the OWS issue solely through the lens of our party you are doing ourselves a major disservice.

This issue is more than just a difference in personal income tax rates and it trancends political idealogy.

This issue is the fact that the ultra rich have bought and paid for our goverment. It is really that simple.

If we refuse to see the real issue because we are too busy hating some politican or some party then we're are all doomed. We have to wake up. We are falling victim to the age old divide and conquer tactic. Do you really think anyone in Washington ,Republican or Democrat,is really looking out for our best interests at this point?

We have to quit spending all our energy rooting for our ""when we should be rooting for every American citizen who is being flushed down the toilet. If we can't see, or refuse to see what is really going on because we are blinded by party rhetoric then we are part of the problem and you have become far worse then those we condemn.

We have played right into thier hands and they picked our pocket. So yes, I do hope the far left media is giving them some help considering what Huckabee said on FOX the other night. If we are to turn a blind eye to the realities of the situation because are stuck in some sort if idealogical quagmire then we should all be ashamed of ourselves and we'll continue to get what we deserve.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Oct 9, 2011, at 2:03 PM

Oh, and we should rescend the supreme court decision to grant coporations the same rights as citizens which to me is one of the most recent and most glaring infractions.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Oct 9, 2011, at 12:28 PM

rr3yvo,

It's simple. We the people need to demand terms limits, campaign finance reform and the end to lobbyists just to name a few things. We need to make these ballot issues. These need to be enforcable laws and not empty political promises.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Oct 9, 2011, at 12:26 PM

So wtf how do you propose changing that? Without money?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Oct 9, 2011, at 11:59 AM

Is Occupy Wall St. Getting Big Name Lefty Media Help?

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/dan-gainor/...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Oct 9, 2011, at 8:23 AM

Obama is a murderer -- pure and simple.

Now what are we, the American People going to do about it?

If we do nothing, then we can kiss our democracy and everything we ever fought for goodbye.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Oct 9, 2011, at 4:25 AM

X-Ray if you have a libertarian bone left in your body you must be against Obama's kill at will policy. What will the next President do to extend it just a bit further, then the next one, and the next one? It is a horrible precedent, and another huge rip in the already tattered fabric of democracy that shelters the people.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Oct 8, 2011, at 7:10 PM

"US soldiers accused of raping teens in South Korea"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44826697/ns/...

Oh hey that must be some of that American Exceptional-ism.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Oct 8, 2011, at 4:42 AM

Oh X-ray,

The reason there was no warrant for Al-alwaki is because there is zero evidence linking him to any crime.

You have been told he has been "linked" to this and that but if you read the fine print they also tell you in another breath that this is only the opinion of a few folks and not a reflection of the actual evidence -- which is none.

Every American has Constitutional rights and one of those rights is the right to due-process.

The President committed murder just as sure as Charlie Manson did, and like Charlie Manson, the President should be tried, convicted, removed from office, and sentenced to prison for his crimes.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Oct 7, 2011, at 8:32 PM

Its looking like the OWS movement is going to be a major political force in the coming election.

I fully support OWS and their goals.

Its time to sweep the crazy teaparty-neocons out of office!!

We the People won't allow them to ever again hold our nation hostage to their demands!!

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Oct 7, 2011, at 8:27 PM

back to my mixed feelings on the issue of killing Al-Alawki..(spelling)

The problem I have is that the Department of Justice that Ok'd the death of this terrorist is the same Department of Justice that makes serious errors of judgement like when they refused to prosecut the Black Panther party people for voter intimidation, the same Dept of Justice that allowed the Gun Runner program to go on where US Border agent(s) have been killed due to their serious failed judgement, the same administration where the Vice President calls Tea partiers Terrorists, so what is to stop the Democrat logic from first saying that a Tea partier is a terrorist rhetorically to then putting the person or people who most loudly oppose Obama on a kill list?

-- Posted by mrxray on Fri, Oct 7, 2011, at 6:09 PM

On a happier note... George Soros' conviction of insider trading was upheld by the European Court

-- Posted by mrxray on Fri, Oct 7, 2011, at 6:05 PM

I have mixed feelings about the killing of the American who is a terrorist in another nation plotting and assisting people who are attempting to kill OUR CITIZENS. The oath we take to serve in our Military, both enlisted and officers, says we will defend our nations from enemies both foreign and domestic. This Al-alwaki was a US citizen, KNOWN to have worked with most of the terrorists that attacked or atttempted to attack our nation in various ways and was in Yemen carrying out terrorist activities... THIS is an act of war against the US, even if he is a US citizen.... his behavior, being an act of war, allows for us to kill him during war... and we are at war with Terrorists and therefore anywhere we can find them is a battle field of terrorism because they will utilize anywhere for their battle field of terror.

I guess if you want to leave the borders of our nation, move in with the terror organaizations attacking your nation of origin and carry out acts of war against them, then you willfully acknowledge that you are a war time combatant and run the risk of being killed in retaliation.

-- Posted by mrxray on Fri, Oct 7, 2011, at 6:04 PM

Back to the occupy wall street FAKE protests... every one of those protestors participate in the very capitalist process in which they are protesting... ironic.... BUT more to the point, I could post a whole bunch of videos where people are being interviewed and they cannot answer in depth questions about why they are there... videos from most every city in which there are protests... and thank god we have the unions and michael moore to come in and financially support these people who are obviously not thinking for their selves... and if you read the signs... they are printed by socialist and communist groups... that is sadly ironically funny

-- Posted by mrxray on Fri, Oct 7, 2011, at 5:56 PM

no matter how much a rich person is forced to contribute in taxes... you all will never be happy... there is not enough money in the world to support your crack-like spending addiction where you think the government should be providing all things for all people instead of demanding that people take care of their selves.

Life is not fair and no amount of laws will make life fair, no amount of wealth redistribution will make life fair.... all blaming the rich for our problem does is make people MORE dependent on the government and less likely to do the hard work, invest the time to become a success....

-- Posted by mrxray on Fri, Oct 7, 2011, at 5:50 PM

On a different topic... China and the Green industry... China and its economy behaves just like you all complain about Walmart... they utilize intentionally cheap labor to undercut the US And European businesses then when they have the greatest market share, or even before, they make cheap, poorly made, sometimes posionous products. Their green industry is no different. BUT in this case they are not utilizing their own green energy but instead are building more and more coal plants to generate electricity.

When we push the artificial market of "green" energy, we are ONLY helping build up the economy of China, much like we do with every artificial financial stimulus plan when we borrow money from other nations such as china... all while we take tax payer money from tax payers and send back to those very same nations for different types of aide or social programs....... you know, the same nations we are borrowing money from .

http://www.worldwatch.org/node/5650

-- Posted by mrxray on Fri, Oct 7, 2011, at 5:47 PM

you can find that list of demands on the Occupywallstreet.org website...

-- Posted by mrxray on Fri, Oct 7, 2011, at 5:39 PM

Here is the problem with blaming the "Wall street guys"... aka "Those evil rich white guys" SOLELY for the economic crash is that they ONLY played a game within the boundaries of the rules that were created by politicians. When you try to force some sort of social justice and that attempt goes against the forces of capitalism, then the social justice effort will fail because it relies solely on taking away productive money from the economy and from tax payers to pay for a program doomed to failure. The REAL agenda that forced this false economic boom was a social justice program attempting to force banks to lend money to low income, risky people on an idealistic concept that people somehow have a RIGHT to own a home regardless of their financial abilities or risks. THEN when local banks refused to make the loans ACORN and others boycotted and protested banks and the Fed raised the interest rates on banks refusing... so local banks were FORCED, COERCED into making risky loans to risky people so the snow ball started where they sold off risky loans and then farther down the mountain lots of these loans were bundled, traded and invested upon.... THANK YOU FRANKS, DODD, and other even way back to Carter with the Community Reinvestment Act and Clinton and the liberal progressive socialist agenda where they want to spread the wealth, redistribute the wealth of those who EARN their way in life and give it to those who dont.

I have to agree with Mr Cain..... if you are not rich BLAME YOURSELF.... that includes me. lol

Here is a list of "demands" from the "occupy wallstreet" astroturf.... sounds exactly like the communist manifesto

Then there is the list of "demands" made by the Occupy Wall Street Movement:

*Restoration of the living wage.

*Institute a universal single payer healthcare system.

*Guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment.

*Free college education.

*Begin a fast track process to bring the fossil fuel economy to an end.

*One trillion dollars in infrastructure spending, now.

*One trillion dollars in ecological restoration.

*The decommissioning of all of America's nuclear power plants.

*Racial and gender equal rights amendments.

*Open borders migration.

*Bring American elections up to international standards.

*Immediate across the board debt forgiveness for all.

*Outlaw all credit reporting agencies.

*Allow all workers access to unionization and collective bargaining at any time.

-- Posted by mrxray on Fri, Oct 7, 2011, at 5:39 PM

RR

Remember I told you that thing we economists call "3rd Class Coach" theory?...well...the Occupy Wall Street movement is a manifestation of the discontent of the average Joe -- and things will probably get a lot worse before they get better.

We can debate whether the rich have a greater obligation to society than they seem to be exercising till the cows come home and probably never reach agreement on the issue.

However, try as we might, we cannot change 3rd Class Coach theory which predicts that when the rich have taken everything from the people or threaten to take away everything from the people by launching a class war upon the poor and middle class -- threatening their jobs, income, 401ks, social security, and their economic future, the People are then willing to give up their lives -- as long as they can take the rich with them.

The rich are now learning a lesson they should have learned from the French Revolution -- in the end it is the People who are the deciders. It is the American People who make the rules -- not the rich.

We way outnumber the rich. Their numbers don't come anywhere near our numbers and their money won't save them.

It seems its time the rich take a serious look at their situation before this movement grows to massive numbers calling for the rich folks heads on sticks.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Oct 7, 2011, at 5:01 PM

rr3yv0

We know exactly what the Occupy Wall Street movement wants.

They want the 1-2-3 plan.

1.) They want the rich to pay a fairer share of the tax revenues.

2.) They want increased and enhanced Federal regulation of the banks and other lending institutions to prevent the rich from crashing our economy and stealing our 401Ks again.

3.) They want the Federal Government to take a Keynesian approach to the economy -- direct hiring of the unemployed to rebuild our crumbling infrastructure and to build an entirely new energy system in America based on green technology.

Now I hope you won't try to tell us you don't know why they are there. Their leaders speak for them -- not fox news -- and that is what their leaders say they want. If you try to say you don't know why they are there or that they don't know why they are there...well...at that point I think you are just playing possum mate.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Oct 7, 2011, at 4:19 PM

Smart Dog

I can not speak for others or tell you why anyone else wanted to impeach Bush and Obama.

I can tell you why I supported impeaching Bush and why I believe Obama should be impeached, convicted, and removed from office.

Bush admitted to multiple violations of Title 18, part 1, Chapter 118 and Title 50, Chapter 36 of Federal Acts. He admitted ordering the torture of prisoners and he admitted he spied on all American's who use any form of electronic communication. Those are crimes and our Constitution mandates that Presidents that break our laws be impeached, convicted and removed from office.

Obama has admitted ordering the execution of an American citizen who was never charged with any crime and was not even wanted for anything. Obama violated every single Constitutional right that American man had. He denied him Constitutional due process, denied him his Constitutional right to a trial by a jury of his peers, and then denied that American his right to his live -- and the man had never even been charged with a single crime, much less convicted. It appears Obama had the man murdered by the Army. If murder does not qualify a president for impeachment, then nothing qualifies any impeachment.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Oct 7, 2011, at 4:09 PM

Say, rr3, why don't you report back to us on why they are there after you review all those posts from Nanadot.

I think your foxnewsylike, gop-lemming denial that there is anything of substance there is quite funny.

But, hey, you may be right. It's just a bunch of hispanics paid to be there by ...... wait ..... who? ....... Obama? Nancy Pelosi?

Man, ultra-neo-cons are hillarious.

Let me give you a clue. This is what a populist movement looks like. It's not Sara Palin in her "I wannabe a millionaire" bus.

-- Posted by Smart Dog on Fri, Oct 7, 2011, at 2:44 PM

The Wall Street protesters don't know why they are there. Hispanics have admitted to being paid to be there. There have been over 700 arrests.

How does that compare to a Tea Party protest?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Oct 7, 2011, at 11:33 AM

Let's see.

Folks want to impeach Obama.

Many folks wanted to impeach Bush II.

Before that, we impeached Clinton for getting a little on the side but we couldn't get him out of office.

Heck, fellers, let's just start impeachement proceedings as soon as whoever we elect gets sworn in.

That's about 20 years of "we hate the president" sentiment in America, wouldn't you say?

The common theme here seems to be the desire to hate and place blame on whoever wins the spot. Mostly I think this is the work of the two parties busily slinging mud at the incumbent in order to win next time.

A novel approach might be to get the two sides to work together on compromise solutions to our problems as opposed to the "winner take all" mentality we now have. "I'm right and you're wrong" is not a logical basis for decision making.

I believe that the premise we were founded on was one of civil debate, negotiation, and compromise to reach solutions supported by a majority of Americans.

What a concept, eh? We seem stuck on boneheaded obstanance and a refusal to accept anything but our own ideology. Instead of looking for solutions and common ground, our politicians on each side are stuck on getting their way at the expense of others.

-- Posted by Smart Dog on Fri, Oct 7, 2011, at 7:40 AM

RR

Its not too late for the House Republicans to begin impeachment proceedings against Obama, and though I wish they would and think they should impeach him I don't think its going to happen...sadly.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Oct 7, 2011, at 6:26 AM

rr3yv0

I don't think Obama cares one bit what the Constitution has to say.

The guy is one of the worst Presidents this American can remember followed by Bush at a close 2nd.

Between the 2 of them, the days of democracy are over in the USA unless the People stand up to the Obama dictatorship right now, regardless of party affiliation.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Oct 7, 2011, at 6:24 AM

So news with this president does the constitution mean anything?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Oct 7, 2011, at 5:46 AM

I don't think I am the sucker here news most of the American people have been suckers for years and the liberals want more of them. I think they are getting what they want.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Oct 7, 2011, at 5:44 AM

Reid Goes Nuclear To Block The President's Stimulus Plan

http://www.redstate.com/russvought/2011/...

This is what they had you all believing would be so terrible if the Republicans did this. It is terrible but look who did it, the party responsible for a lot of this mess and making it worse.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Oct 7, 2011, at 5:41 AM

"Secret panel can put Americans on 'kill list' without any oversight"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/10/06/se...

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/0...

http://news.yahoo.com/secret-panel-put-a...

When the President can, on a whim and without notice, deny any American he wants his Constitutional right to a fair trial and order that American executed by the Army, do you really think you live in a free country?

If so, please 'splain to me how you can be free when the President can take your freedom and all your Constitutional rights from you anytime he wants and doesn't even have to explain it to anyone. How is the President having absolute powers of life and death of every American citizen, without any regard for the Constitution or our laws, the same thing as freedom?

There is definitely something wrong with America!

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Oct 7, 2011, at 3:41 AM

"New evidence could clear 14-year-old executed by South Carolina"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/10/03/ne...

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Oct 7, 2011, at 3:16 AM

rr3yv0

Yeah so said fox news RR -- consider the source.

If they want to know why the protesters are protesting it would make a lot more sense to talk to the real protesters -- not the teenager that came along for the ride.

The protesters want the "1 2 3 " deal as I outlined below.

RR doesn't it aggravate you when fox news misleads you into believing their nonsense mate?

'Cause that is exactly what they did when they told you the protesters don't know what they want -- and fox news knew better when they told you that, by the way. Don't be a fox news sucker mate.

The protesters want 1-2-3.

That is what they want.

Read my comment below to see the 3 things they want. Then you don't have to be fox news' convenient fool.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Oct 7, 2011, at 2:15 AM

The following link is to a thought provoking commentary at "Market Watch".

Could it be that the Corporatists have over reached; to the point that the youth of the world FINALLY "get it", and are at last beginning a world wide rebellion that will not cease until equitable balance is restored?

To me it is a sign of hope, for no real seismic change ever occurs that is not spearheaded by the energy of youth.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/a-new-l...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Oct 7, 2011, at 12:56 AM

What i've been saying ever since i've been on this blog is finely coming true. All this nice talk everyone has been putting out hasn't made a dent in the troubles this Country has been facing.Maybe we have awaken the beast of Protest.I hope so! Now if the Bible Belt wakes up and joins in, and a few other Places we can shake Washington up,and a few of the Lying fools wondering around in that big Building in Washington. It all comes down to big big changes in the way the System is changed. And i mean big changes to every Branch.I think a lot of People will be hurt and even Killed but a change like that has to happen or we are going to fall like the Roman Empire,along with everyone else! If that's what has to happen to see change, RIGHT ON! I would like to see Integrity reintroduced in this Country again ,before i die! Hang on News Across it's happening everywhere! A big shout out to all young and Old Protesters,you may be Americas Heroes!

-- Posted by Jo on Fri, Oct 7, 2011, at 12:08 AM

These Wall Street protesters are protesting capitalism, right! Should they buy stuff?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Oct 6, 2011, at 11:48 PM

Most of the Wall Street protesters they talk to don't know why they are protesting. They are just there because hey it's a party.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Oct 6, 2011, at 11:44 PM

Personally, I like the protests on Wall Street. I think they are well within their rights to be there making media take notice. And I believe that this will help clarify the positions of many candidates going into the next election.

I notice that the GOP is already trying to find some way to lable the protest something it is not. Gotta love those guys, they specialize in "branding" anyone who disagrees with capitalism run amok as "Un-American."

Big, fat, SHEESH! on that one.

Anyone who by now does not recognize that most GOP politicians do not have the best interest of middle and lower class Americans in mind is a bonehead.

Anyone who does not recognize that most politicians are controlled by rich, arrogant, self-serving donors is also a bonehead.

And anyone who thinks that more and more neo-conservate control of our political system will lead to a positive outcome for America is ... well . . . a bonehead.

Here's a fun thought experiment. What would America look like if we just made Rush Limbaugh the dictator and did everything his way? Does that look like the America we want? No fear there though, because I am sure old Rush wouldn't take the job. He doesn't want to work that hard.

What about Dick Cheney? I am sure old Dick would love the job. Is an America where we do everything Cheney's way look like a place you would like to live? Think that's what the founding fathers had in mind?

You don't need to answer, rr3, we all already know you would be the happiest lemming on the planet if any of those scenario's came to pass.

For me, I'd take any one of those high school educated protesters who come from "the great unwashed masses" as my leader than Perry, Bachman, Cheney, Rove, Boehner, etc, etc....

I figure we would at least have somebody who didn't think they had all the answers already, regardless of the situation, and therefore might actually try to do what's best for everyone, not just the moneyed folks.

When the next revolution comes I'll be marching with the 99%'ers.

I would hope that one of these days working class folks who have been duped by the mingling of Christianity and politics will wake up and realize that a vote against abortion, however right minded it may be, these days is a vote for greed, graft, and a system where the economic distance between you and the guy living out on Long Island in his billion dollar mansion gets bigger every election.

-- Posted by Smart Dog on Thu, Oct 6, 2011, at 2:27 PM

Oh and remember folks,

Neocon/teaparty folks are a small minority.

We the People can do anything we want to do and, if we stand strong and united, there is nothing the neocon-teaparty can do to stop us.

JUST SAY NO! TO TEAPARTY CONSERVATISM!!!

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Oct 6, 2011, at 1:41 PM

And to those neocons/teaparty folks,

to answer the question which so many neocon/teaparty folks dont's seem to know the answer too -- even though it has been said many times,

the Occupy Wall Street Americans protesting through out the Nation want:

(1) increased taxes on the rich to help reduce the tax burden of the Middle Class and the poor and to make sure the rich are paying a fairer share of our tax revenues (helping to further reduce our deficit),

(2) increased Federal regulation to prevent the rich from stealing from the American People, again, and crashing our economy again,

(3) they want the government to do something positive and direct, something that we know works (such as bringing back the CCC and the WPA -- government jobs to rebuild our infrastructure and establish a nation-wide green energy production system), to increase the number jobs in America.

Its a pretty simple message that somehow the neocon/teaparty just don't seem to get.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Oct 6, 2011, at 1:36 PM

rr3yv0

Neocon/teaparty blogs by bloggers who know nothing of economics do not adequately answer the question of why America is not creating enough jobs to end the economic depression.

I have told you many times before why not enough jobs are being created -- consumption has been dropping like a rock and has never recovered sufficiently to result in a substantially increased need for labor.

To do that we need to bring back the CCC and the WPA on a large scale.

But the rich folks may not like that! Rich folks love a good economic depression because they become much wealthier and they don't have to invest/risk a single penny to do it.

Remember, the rich do not create jobs. Only increased demand can create jobs.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Oct 6, 2011, at 1:20 PM

rr3 - what is "successful" about big banks and investment firms getting bailed out of a mess - which they created - by taxpayer dollars? we are supposed to "look up" to these folks? if they offered to repay the taxpayers - or at least placed a moritorium on executive bonuses - that might be a bit better - but i doubt it.

zeke

-- Posted by zeke on Wed, Oct 5, 2011, at 10:00 AM

rr3yvo,

There is a very clear distinction between success and rape.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Oct 5, 2011, at 8:33 AM

This Is Why America Is Not Creating New Jobs

http://www.redstate.com/erick/2011/10/04...

This says it all:"He's not just a political loser, he seems more and more an economic dolt."

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Oct 5, 2011, at 6:33 AM

Oops wrong link try this one.

http://www.redstate.com/erick/2011/10/05...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Oct 5, 2011, at 6:31 AM

The Occupy Wall Street Fools

http://www.marshallnews.com/story/176930...

What happened to the America where we looked up to success instead of looking down on it as an excuse for our own failure?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Oct 5, 2011, at 6:25 AM

http://cartoonblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Oct 5, 2011, at 1:24 AM

...said the man with no credibility.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Oct 4, 2011, at 5:20 PM

Barack Obama is No Underdog. He's a Political Loser

http://www.redstate.com/erick/2011/10/04...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Oct 4, 2011, at 7:00 AM

I haven't seen any coverage on our Local News,not zip! They can't hid all this forever,or can they?? Wake up America, and look these things up for your selves, Or do you really want to know how this System sucks1

-- Posted by Jo on Mon, Oct 3, 2011, at 10:16 PM

zeke

Defending Fox? lol...

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Oct 3, 2011, at 4:32 PM

the article o spoke of - dated 10-2-11 - was pretty much just news. however - a subsequent editorial piece on FOX News by columnist Dan Gainer sort of got me riled - he continued to state the entire event is "just another leftist" event ... calling the protestors anarchists, left wing radical, etc.

not on the same page there - that's for sure.

zeke

-- Posted by zeke on Mon, Oct 3, 2011, at 1:54 PM

in fact - the fox news web site has a fairly substantial article RIGHT NOW concerning the demonstrations, police brutality, the camps, the different cities where demonstrations are taking place, etc.

maybe folks should check things out a bit better before making uneducated comments.

just sayin'

-- Posted by zeke on Mon, Oct 3, 2011, at 1:17 PM

LOL

You won't get that on Fox News.

Fox news, fairly imbalanced and blind to anything not approved of by its rich fat-cat owner -- Murdoch.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Oct 2, 2011, at 1:03 AM

MSNBC reports about 700 arrested. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44742659/ns/...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Oct 2, 2011, at 1:00 AM

Olbermann has covered it extensively.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Oct 1, 2011, at 8:23 PM

"400 'Occupy Wall Street' protesters arrested"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/10/01/40...

I haven't seen a single mention of it in the Mainstream conservative media.

Gee do you think maybe they don't want to talk about it?

lol

The tendency of the press is to ignore news anymore.

The subdued, docile American press does not care about telling us the news.

They are owned by the same folks who own Wall Street.

...and the American public goes on as if nothing is happening while the empire collapses around them...lol.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Oct 1, 2011, at 8:10 PM

Obama = Bush...(maybe even a little worse than Bush).

Warmonger Kings of a subdued, docile population.

Never in my life did I believe our Nation would go down this fast and this hard. I figured we would be the shining example of democracy for at least a few more generations.

Oh well, quaint, inexpensive former empires are fun too...for the tourists.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Oct 1, 2011, at 6:37 PM


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