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Speak Out [politics] June 1 to August 31, 2011

Wednesday, June 1, 2011

This forum is for discussing political issues -- local, state, national or international. The same standards of behavior apply as are spelled out on our home page in the introduction to Speak Out.

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...and Dick Cheney should be in prison.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Sep 1, 2011, at 5:55 AM

I nkow... all those military men and womend who are Conservative, anti-Obama, Anti-liberalism, anti big government are UnAmerican right???

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Sep 1, 2011, at 1:23 AM

News... funny that you call Tea partiers Unamerican... hypocrisy at its best... if you cannot handle oppsoing and differeing opinions and debate without resorting to that tactic, the favored tactic of the left, to call the right racists, terrorists, unamerican and etc then you should quit trying to have conversations..... LOL

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Sep 1, 2011, at 1:23 AM

If I took a group of 3 or four of the biggest redneck white guys into an area with mostly minority voters all holding clubs, yelling racial slurs, and in general intimidating people at the door of the election facility, all you liberals wold be crying for their heads......

Eric Holder's unprofessional racist statement regarding the black panther voter intimidation case.

"The Attorney General seemed to take personal offense at a comment Culberson read in which former Democratic activist Bartle Bull called the incident the most serious act of voter intimidation he had witnessed in his career.

"Think about that," Holder said. "When you compare what people endured in the South in the 60s to try to get the right to vote for African Americans, and to compare what people were subjected to there to what happened in Philadelphia--which was inappropriate, certainly that...to describe it in those terms I think does a great disservice to people who put their lives on the line, who risked all, for my people," said Holder, who is black."

"To compare that kind of courage, that kind of action, and to say that the Black Panther incident wrong thought it might be somehow is greater in magnitude or is of greater concern to us, historically, I think just flies in the face of history and the facts.," Holder said with evident exasperation.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/joshgerste...

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Sep 1, 2011, at 1:19 AM

Nanadot, ACORN and its reworked, renamed organizations and the Unions and the "community organizer in Chief" are rewriting just as many voting laws and our Dept of Justice willfully and racially ignores voter intimidation.... which has the effect of diminishing laws if not changing them in practice.

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Sep 1, 2011, at 1:14 AM

nanadot... the Point was that Labor is not something that is something that belongs to the left and to the "Unionization labor" movement.

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Sep 1, 2011, at 1:11 AM

Rabid Dog Briefly Mistaken for Tea Party Candidate

Receives Stnding Ovation at Missouri Rally

http://www.borowitzreport.com/2010/09/06...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Wed, Aug 31, 2011, at 11:12 PM

I kinda feel sorry for the atheist, when they die, they get all dressed up with nowhere to go!

-- Posted by PWB on Wed, Aug 31, 2011, at 7:11 PM

Interesting take on the state of Europe and UK...interesting that the Euro took the economy status and interest rate of the BEST economy and tried to make it fit the economies of ALL the nations in the Euro

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/colum...

Interesting take on the failure of Mass. Mandatory health care system adn how they pushed THEIR costs onto the taxpayers of the ENTIRE nation.

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?topic=...

Green jobs go away.... specifically ones that Obama touted and the Fed govt funded

http://www.mercurynews.com/bay-area-news...

Sad effects of the stimulus that they wont tell you...only less than half of "jobs" stimulated were actual new jobs the rest were job swaps "Poached jobs"

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/stud...

God love the Unions... God love the labor movement... too bad they HATE freedom of speech and a quality and open debate or discussion....

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/3...

Finally... a prayer that ANY conservative Christian can honestly use while praying for this disaster of a President... Pray for Obama. Psalm 109:8

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Aug 31, 2011, at 3:26 PM

Would that be any different then people that vote Democrat no matter who the candidate is?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Aug 31, 2011, at 6:10 AM

Limbaugh: Colin Powell Will Vote For Obama Again Because 'Melanin Is Thicker Than Water' If this isnt race baiting for White people I dont know what is.

http://thinkprogress.org/media/2011/08/2...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Aug 30, 2011, at 11:41 PM

Yes it was.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 30, 2011, at 9:39 PM

If that story was about Laura Bush I bet you would believe it.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 30, 2011, at 9:26 PM

Hey Nana I have seen some of you reference the Enquirer as legitimate news source. So hey whats good for the goose......

I find amazing that the liberals are all experts on legitimate sources. Is there a school for that?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 30, 2011, at 9:22 PM

Expensive massages, top shelf vodka and five-star hotels: First Lady accused of spending $10m in public money on her vacations

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...

Now who is sticking it to the working class?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 30, 2011, at 8:32 PM

Why not just lock the door?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 30, 2011, at 4:25 PM

Thank you wtf all your compliments are appreciated.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 30, 2011, at 1:44 PM

rr3yvo,

Even though I suspected as much, your last few post's have said volumes about you. BTW, very christian of you as well.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Aug 30, 2011, at 12:52 PM

It is really silly not to acknowledge the dangers inside our own borders.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 30, 2011, at 12:33 PM

Yeh but BFG we don't have to let them in the front door.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 30, 2011, at 12:31 PM

How do you starve an Obama supporter?

Hide his food stamps under his work boots.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 30, 2011, at 12:30 PM

rr3yvo I have no problem what so ever with the truth. i just dont hear it as much as I would like. you may have ememys who are from countries where Islam is the most dominant religion. or enemys who are Muslim but to generalize an entire religious/cultural/geographical area as bad, evil, homogenous and all your is simply silly.

1) nobody has the time to meet all of the humans you propose going to war with. 2) much less to make assessments like good versus evil

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Tue, Aug 30, 2011, at 12:05 PM

Oh ok old Al didn't say that. Reminds me of a bumper sticker on a car delivering newspapers. "I don't believe the liberal media". Pretty much says it all.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 30, 2011, at 10:48 AM

rr3yvo,

What is your stance on global warming?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Aug 30, 2011, at 7:33 AM

President Obama has Tour Buses Flown to Stump Speeches

http://www.redstate.com/aglanon/2011/08/...

What better way to spend our money?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 30, 2011, at 6:52 AM

Algore: If You Oppose Global Warming, You're Racist.

http://dailycaller.com/2011/08/28/gore-g...

"We have to win the conversation on climate"

Here all along I thought it was supposed to be about facts!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 11:53 PM

Ditto!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 11:42 PM

Islam is not my enemy rr3. You stating it is so does not make it so. Who do you think you are Allah, or somebody? ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 11:35 PM

Not at all okr.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 11:05 PM

rr3 your statement that Islam is our enemy is incorrect. What is likely correct is that Islam is your enemy. Rather grandiose of you to state Islam is OUR enemy don't you think? ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 5:43 PM

LOL Cheetah my wife, and I had one of our rare political disagreements on the Freedman issue. It has been roiling for years, the Freedman issue, not our debate. ;) I believe they should retain tribal rights. She does not. By the way her opinion is not racially motivated. She has been a card carrying member of the NAACP for thirty years.

It is a close issue. A couple of years ago, we argued it off, and on for a couple of days. To avoid killing each other we agreed to put our arguments in writing. We did, neither budged. I am not going to mention that you brought up the topic on the blog. I don't want to "discuss" it anymore.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 5:38 PM

rr3yvo,

And you wonder why people have a problem with religion. All religions.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 2:22 PM

So BFG you don't like the truth?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 2:17 PM

rr3yvo,

Looks like you fell right in to that statement. I almost feel bad for setting you up but I'm sure I'll get over it.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 1:44 PM

rr3yvo,

saying islam is our enemy Is not only false but irresponlible and kinda inflamatory. I cant believe our local paper would allow such a comment to be posted and remain for so long makng us all look like a bunch of ignorant country bumpkins who just believe whatever the FOX network tells us what is "American" and what to believe.

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 1:36 PM

How did everyone spend all the money they saved on gas as a result of Obama releasing all that oil from the Reserve? Just wonderin'

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 12:44 PM

No Islam is.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 12:41 PM

rr3yvo,

Are Muslims officially our enemy now?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 11:39 AM

Yes nana and yes they do count.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 11:31 AM

News is that why they leave dead bodies all over the world in the name of Allah? If you believe it is propaganda then you are aiding and abetting the enemy. Just look at the list.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index....

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 6:02 AM

"Report: Foundations paid $42 million to spread anti-Muslim propaganda"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/08/28/re...

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 1:59 AM

Ok

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Aug 29, 2011, at 12:06 AM

rr3, yes.

Definitions: established principle

established: thriving: started or set up long enough ago and sufficiently successful to suggest likely continuation or permanence. successful: having gained public recognition in a sphere of activity

principle: basic assumption: an important underlying law or assumption required in a system of thought

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Aug 28, 2011, at 11:58 PM

Some Big Lies of Science

http://activistteacher.blogspot.com/2010...

They will get you to believe whatever they can fool you into believing. When one doesn't work they try something else so a few years from now we will have something else to fear. Interesting verrry, verrry interesting!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Aug 28, 2011, at 11:57 PM

The thought occurs to me that it is important to understand, when one endeavors to travel the middle of the road, whether one is in the middle of the high road, or the low road.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Aug 28, 2011, at 11:41 PM

Okr can a theory be an established principle?

Just checkin'

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Aug 28, 2011, at 11:38 PM

Republicans against science? Anti-intellectual?

No doubt about it my mind. In my opinion the Republican Party is controlled by their fringe right wing. It is a recipe for political disaster. Even the complacent under-informed middle of the road majority will not stand for that.

So, one of them wins the Republican primary denying human causes of climate change, established principles of biology and economics, and the theory of evolution. Then he is trapped, glued to a wall of ignorance, or hypocrisy, perhaps both, which will be highlighted by futile attempts to squirm free from it, and move to the middle. The masses in the middle who vote are not entirely blind will observe the sad scenario, and in disgust, either will not vote, or vote for Obama who is nearer the middle of the road.

All bets are off if some how a strong third party candidate emerges. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/29/opinio...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Aug 28, 2011, at 11:17 PM

I agree Jo and that is why I will be voting 3rd party and independent.

To me, the policies of the Republicans and the Democrats seem to be relatively the same.

They both want to stick the knife in the back of the American People -- they just disagree as to how far to shove the knife in.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Aug 28, 2011, at 9:32 PM

When you have a Government that lies and takes thing out of Context, has NO respect for Science and their expertise, how can you believe any of them? Some can take an obvious lie and make the People believe it! Thats why i have NO hope for this Country anymore.You can't believe that our Elections are Honest!When the American People wake up,then maybe we can have hope again. But that seems impossible.I know everyone's not going to think the same way about anything,but at least debate with the facts,not insane, Religious double talk! I have nothing but disdain for Politicians,and most Attorneys! I don't know that a third Party would be any better but it can't hurt!

-- Posted by Jo on Sun, Aug 28, 2011, at 7:52 PM

One of the most ridiculous lies put forth by the Teaparty and other conservatives is that "Scientists are trying to get rich from creating a climate change hoax."

Lol...what nonsense.

I asked one teapartier exactly how does a university professor (scientist) or university researcher (scientist) get rich from doing research and experimentation?

His answer was as obsurd as his claim.

He claimed a university professor (scientist) can make "millions" in government grants.

I asked him to name 1 scientist who had made "millions" in profit from research grants.

He said he could not think of anyone specific.

I asked if he had ever seen the application for a government grant for scientific research.

I was not surprised to learn he hadn't ever seen one.

The reason I had asked him that is because the grant application does not require the university or the professor stipulate the nature of the study, details about the study, or any prior history of studies by the professor or the university. In fact, the application is much more akin to the application a student uses when applying for educational grants. So the government has no idea what the study is specifically or what the hypothesis are or any other detail of the research.

I don't listen to teapartiers anymore.

Frankly, the climate change debate is over. The scientific facts won.

The only question now is what are we going to do about it?

So far it appears we aren't going to do anything but leave our grandchildren a misserable death in the form of massive climate related disastors.

I think the problem is not the scientists or the scientific facts, but rather the fact that we keep electing dummies to Congress...dummies like Rick Perry who would like to be elected to the White House and will do anything to get there...no matter how many of your grandchildren he has to kill to get there.

Well folks, remember...dummies in -- dumb policies out. Garbage in -- garbage out.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Aug 28, 2011, at 5:24 PM

Wisconsin union reforms an early success

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2011...

How come this is not all over the news. I guess they have to create their negative spin on the early success before it will really be news. If you don't like success then keep voting Democrat and support those unions.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Aug 27, 2011, at 8:33 PM

NanaDot

Now you know its not nice to throw facts at conservative arguments.

It leaves them speechless.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Aug 27, 2011, at 8:09 PM

No Class: Vandals, Union Protesters Disrupt Successful Choice School

http://biggovernment.com/bhealy/2011/08/...

"The Left and the perpetually offended, who despite spending millions of dollars in national money have been losers now in several consecutive elections and policy debates in Wisconsin, must resort to civil disturbances, vandalism and thuggery."

Funny that no consideration is given of the protesters toward the children. Are we being a good example? I know the kids were.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Aug 27, 2011, at 5:42 PM

In the news,

-Today both the Republicans and Democrats move closer to raising the debt ceiling to remedy America's financial predicament.....

-In other news, blood alcohol levels will be raised to solve drunk driving.....

Now there's a solution!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Aug 27, 2011, at 3:27 PM

Wow Nana you gotta quit drinkin that kool-aid.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Aug 27, 2011, at 3:22 PM

rr3yv0

LOl lol lol...

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Aug 27, 2011, at 1:23 AM

Seen on a billboard....

If you voted for our current president in 2008 to prove you weren't a racist, please vote for someone else in 2012 to prove you're not and idiot.

Thank you......Concerned Citizens of America

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Aug 27, 2011, at 12:04 AM

Sorry, it should read "waiting."

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Aug 26, 2011, at 10:55 PM

rr3yvo,

Still waiting to hear how president rr3yvo is gonna fix everything. Does it involve wating on a "god"?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Aug 26, 2011, at 10:54 PM

"Christian warrior' charged with firebombing Oregon mosque"

http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/0...

Another Christofacist terrorist.

The greatest threat to America does not make its home in the Middle East.

The greatest threat to America is homegrown.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 26, 2011, at 5:28 PM

Oklahoma Reader

Good point.

I think Bill Hicks may have had the same concept in mind when he did his piece on Fundamentalist Christians in the White House with their fingers on the button.

"Tell me when Lord, tell me when. Let me be your servant Lord..."

Bill Hicks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R370YkYhV...

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 26, 2011, at 5:01 PM

Yes Nana I am SERIOUS? REALLY? Obama has been the most fiscally irresponsible president to date so let's blame for his own failures for once instead of some dead guy.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 26, 2011, at 5:00 PM

I would like to know how many of those in favor of multiple nuclear attacks by our military, feel so, at least partially, because it would be an Armageddon prompt.

Note that I said feel, not think.

I also wonder how they can concieve positive feelings about favoring anything that undoubtably, at the least, will result in the agonizing death of millions of people. I further wonder how they can feel that they can join any just god in Heaven, when harboring such emotions.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Aug 26, 2011, at 4:55 PM

Thanks Jo,

its good to be a Grandpa lol.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 26, 2011, at 4:16 PM

I have noticed lot of folks have forgotten the USA is not the World's only nuclear power.

When I hear American nuke threats, I can't help but wondering, what the heck is wrong with those folks? Do they want to die along with everyone they love?

It would behove those who want to jump to muclear arms in order to solve America's problems to remember that there are other nations just as capable of nuking America back into the stone-age and they already have their missles pointed at America and they are ready to fire when ever the Russians and Chinese feel they need to use them.

Or perhaps the energy of these suicidal Americans would be better spent ridding the World of nukes altogether.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 26, 2011, at 4:15 PM

Congratulations News!

-- Posted by Jo on Fri, Aug 26, 2011, at 4:02 PM

Good Point BFG.

There are a few Congressmen I would support. Congressman Kucinich comes to mind as an example.

For the most part however, I say line them up and have at it lol.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 26, 2011, at 3:56 PM

when drowning a person will scramble for air with all his might. when starving a man will fight for food. when thirsty people go looking for water. so how come when our country is in dire need of young hard working educated people we slash education funding and get boys and girls killed in wars overseas?

its like the old saying about how a man is very smart but a 1000 people together are all idiots. in this case its about 535 idiots in congress.

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Fri, Aug 26, 2011, at 1:56 PM

It's going to be interesting how many had right Conservatives will be getting our Money, to fix up their seaside homes after this Storm go's through,don't you think? See what they think of Big Government then! It would go a long way too help our School's!

-- Posted by Jo on Fri, Aug 26, 2011, at 1:14 PM

rr3 I find that our proposals are often mirror images of each other's suggestions. Thus, in regard to the current thread I counter-propose that instead of nuking nations out of existence we do away with all the nuclear devices in the world.

Now I know that suggestion only carries the thrust of a simple agnostic, and is in no way inspired by God, new testament, or old testament as are all your proposals. Still this old godless person believes it to be better to destroy thousands of weapons of mass destruction than millions of people.

I am glad that I have absolutely no belief in your god, or I would be scared to death right now for my blasphemous thought, and suggestion.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Aug 26, 2011, at 12:23 PM

I am still interested in hearing which countries you are eager to nuke rr3? Do I get an answer?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Aug 26, 2011, at 11:59 AM

"Funalmentalists in the White House (with their finger on the Butten)" Bill Hicks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R370YkYhV...

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 26, 2011, at 7:13 AM

Why does it seem all the "solutions" the conservatives offer to our Nation's problems always seem to involve committing National suicide?

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 26, 2011, at 7:04 AM

well RR,

Nuke the Mideast and plan on nuclear war and the destruction of our Nation because Russia, China, and Pakistan won't stand by and watch that happen without full retaliation in kind.

Getting all our major cities destroyed is not a good way of saving our Nation from some imagined threat in the Mideast.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 26, 2011, at 7:02 AM

I would hate to see it come to that news but by nuking Japan we effectively ended WWII. I wonder would we still be fighting in today if that hadn't happened? I believe that the only way to end this war on terror is to step up the game and deliver such a devastating blow to them that they no longer want to fight back. That's how you defeat your enemy. All this feel good and can't we all get along is not cutting it.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 26, 2011, at 6:40 AM

Democrats are now blaming natural disasters for the poor economy. Let's see they have blamed Bush, the Tea Party, the Republicans, now natural disasters? Hey I got an idea let's blame the DEMOCRATS I mean who's left?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 26, 2011, at 6:13 AM

Thanks OKR,

Actually, I am relieved my Grandson has come into the World safely, well loved, and ready for all life has to offer him.

Its been a stressful 4 weeks (baby was way over-due) and now I can relax lol.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 26, 2011, at 6:04 AM

Obama's Job-Killing NLRB Strikes Again! ALL Employers Must Post Union Notices

http://www.redstate.com/laborunionreport...

This is announced the same week Obama claims to make an effort to scale back burdensome rules on small businesses. I guess that is no different then giving us all this debt and then saying we need to be fiscally responsible.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 26, 2011, at 6:02 AM

rr3yv0

Regarding your comment about my suggestion -- impeaching Obama -- you are 100% correct mate...and we are stuck with him until 2013 whether we like it or not.

Its a darn shame.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 26, 2011, at 4:39 AM

rr3yv0

So you figure all those innocent men, women, and children who live in that neck of the woods should be nuked?

And their (the innocent) crime was...?

I know you don't really mean that mate.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 26, 2011, at 4:37 AM

This one will make your blood boil. More evidence that Obama is a pawn of the plutocrats.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blo...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Aug 26, 2011, at 12:16 AM

Congratulations News. In my opinion grand kids are a joy.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Aug 25, 2011, at 11:47 PM

Just which countries are you itching to nuke rr3?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Aug 25, 2011, at 11:44 PM

I appreciate the sentiment news but do you really think any member of Congress has the kahonies to even mention impeachment? I don't think it is remotely possible even in the next four years.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 25, 2011, at 11:07 PM

Over 13,200 killed by terrorists in 11,500 attacks: State Department

http://www.examiner.com/law-enforcement-...

Maybe if we would quit trying to talk to these people and treat it like we did WWII. Pull the troops out nuke the place THE END!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 25, 2011, at 11:04 PM

"Glenn Greenwald: Obama upheld 'evisceration of the rule of law for political elites'"

http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/0...

May I recommend that we simply impeach and prosecute Obama and make an example out of him?

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Aug 25, 2011, at 10:58 PM

Stupidity is a luxury and you will find time and time and time and again that those who are overwhelmingly on the left are those who can afford to be. -- Evan Sayet

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 25, 2011, at 10:28 PM

Sounds like character assassination to me.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 25, 2011, at 10:25 PM

rr3yvo,

Do you possess the capacity to form any of your own thoughts? I'm just asking as you seem to just parrot those of others. In regards to global warming and armadillos this far north, fact trumps faith any day of the week and twice on sunday.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Aug 25, 2011, at 10:05 PM

Inside many liberals is a totalitarian screaming to get out. They don't like to have another point of view in the room that they don't squash and the way they try to squash it is by character assassination and name calling. -- David Horowitz

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 25, 2011, at 9:41 PM

Oh and here is the link:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44270675/ns/...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Aug 25, 2011, at 8:00 PM

"TRIPOLI -- More than 30 men believed to be fighters loyal to Moammar Gadhafi have been found killed at a military encampment in central Tripoli and at least two were bound with plastic handcuffs, indicating they had been executed"

The Rebels are executing prisoners now.

The Rebels are the ones we call our friends.

Has the United States no sense of shame?...no sense of responsibility?

Clearly we don't have any respect for the International Laws of War.

Geneva Conventions??? We don't need no stinking Geneva Conventions!!!

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Aug 25, 2011, at 7:58 PM

My 2 favorite quotes from OKR's link to the common charactoristics of Teaparty supporters:

"17. [Tea Party suppoters] think governors who advocate their state's secession from the Union would make great presidents of the United States.

23. And most of all, unlike our founding Tea Party brethren 238 years ago,

[Tea Party suppoters] think "No taxation without representation" really just means "No taxation."

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Aug 25, 2011, at 7:40 PM

"Poll: Obama, GOP disapproval ratings hit record highs"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/08/25/po...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Aug 25, 2011, at 5:32 PM

OKR

I really enjoyed the link you posted to the list of common characteristics shared by most Teaparty supporters.

Seriously, I think every American should take a good hard look at those characteristics.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Aug 25, 2011, at 5:28 PM

Well friends,

Its official!

I am now offcially in the Granparent Club.

My first Grandchild, Anthony, aka "Tony," was born this morning -- 8lbs, 3 ounces...a big boy...just like Grandpa lol lol lol...

His Mom is fine and recovering -- but little Tony's Dad is far from home, in a distant part of the World, serving the People of the United States of America.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Aug 25, 2011, at 5:10 PM

ND Were you referencing "armadillo" or Tea Party"?

To me they both ring true, "Armadillo" being the darker, more bitter truth.

With increasing food shortages aggravated by climate change we may not be that far off from road kill becoming a regular part of the diet for far too many. I reckon we would get used to it. It becomes a lot less revolting when seasoned by necessity. It wouldn't be a surprising cultural adaption.

Heck we find it revolting that dogs, frogs, bugs, and grasshoppers are scarfed down in many cultures. Yet we love to eat bee vomit.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Aug 25, 2011, at 12:29 PM

"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 25, 2011, at 11:34 AM

You might be a liberal if ...

http://dare2sayit.com/you_might_be_a_lib...

Now we know it is true, liberals are a riot.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 25, 2011, at 11:18 AM

Sorry about the link. http://www.ostroyreport.com/2011/08/you-...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Aug 25, 2011, at 12:08 AM

You know you're a Tea Party member if...http://www.ostroyreport.com/2011/08/you-know-youre-tea-bagger-if.html

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Aug 25, 2011, at 12:06 AM

WTF finally you in Missouri have available an old delicacy, one that has long been delicious to starving homeless Okies. Here is just one hard times recipe.

Take one armadillo by the tail.

Flip him upside down on hot pavement (100 degree temperatures, and upwards).

Hold that sucker there until it stops kicking.

Leave it all afternoon and catch some shade in an alley. While you are resting sharpen a spoon on an alley brick.

When the sun gets down, just go back, and dig in.

Times get even harder for the homeless when hitch hiking the bumpy road. That is why most of the old pros keep a sharpened spoon with them as they walk the road of diminishing opportunity.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Aug 24, 2011, at 11:27 PM

Richard Lindzen: A Modern Day Galileo on Climate

http://dollarsandcrosses.com/2011/07/ric...

"There's not much evidence about the behavior of these climate models."

"The climate is always changing. It's natural variability."

A lot of assumptions have to be made to make it work.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Aug 24, 2011, at 11:18 PM

That's pretty amazing wtf that you believe in global warming on faith but you don't believe the bible. Just an observation that's all.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Aug 24, 2011, at 11:10 PM

They are kind of cute wtf.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Aug 24, 2011, at 11:02 PM

What The New Left and Islam Have in Common

http://dollarsandcrosses.com/2011/08/wha...

Support the left or Islam you are aiding and abetting the enemy.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Aug 24, 2011, at 11:00 PM

On the issue of global warming. Shouldn't we be just a little alarmed that we have armadillo's in mid Missouri?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/s...

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Aug 24, 2011, at 10:57 PM

They would have never been able to negotiate this with the union. They would have lost more jobs and still been bankrupt.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Aug 24, 2011, at 5:18 PM

The controversial Wisconsin budget reform saves teachers' jobs

http://www.scottwalker.org/news/2011/07/...

We find conservatism works when not watered down by liberal policies. Capitalism works when it is not hindered by government regulations or unions. They are actually able to lower property taxes in some districts. And still saved teachers jobs. The unions were going for the layoffs it wasn't about saving jobs to them. When will you people wake up to the liberal lies about conservatism and capitalism. Also people can govern themselves better then the federal government it has been proven time and time again. Don't you just love positive outcomes like this. I do.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Aug 24, 2011, at 5:16 PM

"Leaked cable: Sen. McCain promised to help Gaddafi obtain U.S. military hardware"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/08/24/le...

Who's side are these Republicans on?

It sure isn't the side of America.

THE PARTY OF NO! HAS GOT TO GO!!

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Aug 24, 2011, at 3:29 PM

"Congressman Kucinich: NATO must account for Libyan deaths"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/08/23/co...

I am glad at least one Congressman is standing up for our rule of law.

But I doubt we will see any of the criminals prosecuted anytime soon.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Aug 24, 2011, at 2:05 AM

Senator Bernie Sanders demands enforcement of a law that is on the books that limits oil speculators. The Obama Administration has failed to enforce the law. http://blog.buzzflash.com/node/12965

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Aug 23, 2011, at 11:12 PM

Dot,

You're right about the money but the only people that can change that is congress. catch 22

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Aug 23, 2011, at 6:19 AM

Good point Jo.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Aug 22, 2011, at 5:20 PM

Thanks Nana and News! Yes Nana there is a lot of good Idea's out there,it's getting them implemented! Seems the Rep.know Parliamentary Procedure better then the Dem.Or the Dem. don't use them! Thanks Again.

-- Posted by Jo on Mon, Aug 22, 2011, at 11:19 AM

Nana,

One more thing we need to do. We need to quit electing frickin' lawyers to congress!

Our congress is lousy with millionaire lawyers.

Right now we are running from ditch to ditch. We need to get back in the middle again.

We need a better cross section of America from all different professions to represent us.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Aug 22, 2011, at 9:40 AM

NanaDot said to rr

a my way or the highway kinda place. So please - go do that.

NanaDot how is that any different that what you want?

Here is how I see it all groups (Dems, Repubs, Indpends, Socialist, liberals, conservatives and any others you want to add) want a my way or the high way kinda place!!!

That is the problem until we ALL go back to what we lernt in kindergarten you know (how to get along with others) we are in a hell of a mess!!!!!!!!!!!!

-- Posted by Gal66 on Mon, Aug 22, 2011, at 8:46 AM

Verizon Strikers Head Back to Work Without New Agreement

http://www.redstate.com/laborunionreport...

Just before they would have to start paying workers out of their own coffers. Interesting

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Aug 22, 2011, at 7:13 AM

Union Ain't Wanted: The UAW's Bad Week...

http://www.redstate.com/laborunionreport...

The government are not the only one's chasing manufacturing jobs out of the country. Wonder how them unions jobs are working out for the people that no longer have one? Hmmmmm!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Aug 22, 2011, at 6:42 AM

We need someone with leadership, is there anyone out there that is not bought and paid for?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Aug 22, 2011, at 6:14 AM

Is this an example of the best and the brightest that America has to offer?

Obama to farmer: 'Call the USDA.'

http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2011/08...

Big government at its best.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Aug 22, 2011, at 6:12 AM

...and while I am at it,

Here is another little gem I found.

"Obama vs. Obama"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lnETHlzu...

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Aug 22, 2011, at 3:55 AM

"LEARN TO SPEAK TEAPARTY"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCqQRflUW...

Oh this is good...lol.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Aug 22, 2011, at 3:46 AM

Jo

President Obama has no backbone.

He is weak.

We will never be able to expect him to exercise the will of the People and stand up to teaparty/Republican conservatism. He is afraid of the conservative minority and won't do anything without the consent of the same conservative minority.

Its sad but true mate...Obama proved to be almost worthless.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Aug 21, 2011, at 11:52 PM

RR

Listen buddy, before you answer WTF, may I respectfully recommend you consider Congressman Ron Paul.

There are a lot of his economic policies you might like and let's face it, he is a real man of interity which is exactly what our Nation needs during these troubling times.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Aug 21, 2011, at 11:48 PM

News , Okla, or nana,could you guys tell me why Obama could not have Appointed Elizabeth Warren during this Recess? Hell the Republicans did it several times,didn't they, with some of their appointees?

-- Posted by Jo on Sun, Aug 21, 2011, at 11:45 PM

rr3yvo,

Who would you like to see as president?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Aug 21, 2011, at 10:58 PM

"Corporations keep overseas job figures a closely-guarded secret"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/08/21/co...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/e...

How much longer will we allow the mega-rich and their mouthpieces, the conservatives, keep pushing America around.

When we will stand up to this conservative force that hates America so much?

Perhaps its time we take the reigns away from the conservatives in both parties and try some liberal ideas for a change?

These conservative policies only lead to less jobs for Americans.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Aug 21, 2011, at 10:13 PM

You know Obama said look at the problems I inherited from the previous administration. Didn't he also inherit a AAA credit rating?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Aug 21, 2011, at 9:55 PM

Riding a Bus to Save One Job

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/08/1...

"Our unpopular president, who faces an all-time low approval rating of 39 percent, came off the road show looking particularly desperate to save his own job regardless of the cost to overburdened taxpayers."

This is what is really sad but to some he can do no wrong even when everything is wrong.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Aug 21, 2011, at 9:45 PM

OKR

I think we can get through the problems our Nation is suffering from.

We have overcome impossible odds before mate.

We can do this.

Of course a good first step would be for the voices of the crazy to give way to the voices of the reasonable.

Without that, we probably won't get past square one.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Aug 21, 2011, at 6:56 PM

I don't know News...what you said, is to me, sounding more, and more like whistling as we pass the grave yard. We have so many problems, so many problems.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Aug 21, 2011, at 6:40 PM

Yeah its hard times in America.

My wife and a lot of Aussies like to remind me of that...often.

Some here seem to have lost faith in America.

The Aussies have for most of their history as a Nation looked to America for inspiration. They feel a certain kinship with us and they have traditionally supported us even when we were wrong.

However, I have noticed that great confidence the Aussies had in America, even just a few years ago, has declined and continues to decline.

Which brings me to my point.

Anyone who gives up faith in United States of America is ignoring our history.

When an Aussie tells me the age of America is over, and some have, I tell them they are woefully underestimating the American People. I remind them that this is not the first time we Americans have faced troubled times...and not the first time folks around the World thought maybe we had had it...sort-to-speak.

Yeah its hard times in the USA right now, but I think when we finally make up our minds to work united as a nation to solve our troubles, we will far exceed even the best expectations with overwhelming success.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Aug 21, 2011, at 6:18 PM

ND,

Your're right. They are the "Wizard of OZ" , so speak. Puppeteers.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Aug 21, 2011, at 5:40 PM

I for one am sick and tired of the United States leading the 4th Crusade in the Middle East.

The first 3 Crusades were wrong and so is the 4th Crusade.

Its time to stop our barbaric and brutal aggression against the People of the Middle East.

Its time we grow up as a society and stop murdering the People of the Middle East.

Its the 21st Century -- not the 13th Century.

Aren't we mature enough as a society to realize religious crusades (and the pursuit of the spoils -- oil -- that come from that crusade) are regressive, pointless, and barbaric?

Folks. please contact your Representitive in Congress and our Senators and demand they end the brutal, economy wrecking 4th Crusade.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Aug 21, 2011, at 5:17 PM

"Jon Huntsman: GOP has 'huge problem' with science"

http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/0...

Finally, a Republican candidate that is NOT crazy...for a change.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Aug 21, 2011, at 4:45 PM

Why no outrage over big religion? Do you think they don't wield any power? The have power becuase they have money, tax exempt money by the way.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Aug 21, 2011, at 3:59 PM

I'm with Nana! Were would this Country be without big Government? Would you feel safe? Dog eat Dog!

-- Posted by Jo on Sun, Aug 21, 2011, at 2:28 PM

By golly I think she's got it!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Aug 21, 2011, at 8:55 AM

The High Cost of Washington's Price Manipulation Policy

http://www.capitalismmagazine.com/econom...

Maybe we need to get the government out of the business.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Aug 21, 2011, at 7:47 AM

Big Government or Death

http://www.capitalismmagazine.com/scienc...

"Besides forcing citizens to rely on government as the only source for their medical care, congressmen also love to force physicians to become, in effect, public employee unions that crawl hat-in-hand to lobby for adequate reimbursement. We must eliminate the annual ritual by which Congress votes to temporarily delay severe cuts in Medicare reimbursements to physicians and other health care providers to levels below their costs."

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Aug 21, 2011, at 7:44 AM

When terrorists are merely 'irrational'

http://www.sananews.net/english/2011/08/...

"So exactly how desperate are the Taliban?"

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Aug 21, 2011, at 7:33 AM

...and poeple wonder how religion can possibly cause any problems.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Aug 20, 2011, at 8:32 PM

I read your Muslim take over link rr3. It convinced me...that the life blood of the fundamentalist religio-politico movement is irrational fear. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Aug 20, 2011, at 6:47 PM

The Islamic Political Takeover of America

http://frontpagemag.com/2011/08/19/the-i...

Liberals may be the least of our problems.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Aug 20, 2011, at 6:18 PM

Big Pusher/Big Pharma has flooded the U. S. market with "Oxy" to the point that some is being smuggled to Mexico!

Don't hold your breath until the truly big manufacturers, and dealers are arrested. Instead we subsidize them.

Sickening. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/20...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Aug 20, 2011, at 3:43 PM

rr3yvo,

I think you were right the first time.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Aug 20, 2011, at 2:43 PM

Correction wtf, not really!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Aug 20, 2011, at 12:29 PM

Wtf, no!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Aug 20, 2011, at 12:18 PM

rr3yvo,

How do you expect anyone to take you seriously?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Aug 20, 2011, at 10:09 AM

Obama Will Run on How Good His Record Would Have

Been If Not for Those Obstructionist Republicans

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/s...

I wonder if he will tour all 57 states this time.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Aug 20, 2011, at 8:50 AM

rr3yvo,

You quote Limbaugh as if he's somebody special.

You seem like an intelligent person yet you consistently let others do the thinking for you.

Do you really think Rush cares about you? He cares about your wallet. He's a preacher, a charlatan, a snake oil salesman. He's an embarrassment to the State of Missouri.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Aug 20, 2011, at 7:23 AM

"The Democrat Party dumbs people down, keeps them stupid, poor, dependent, all in the name of compassion. It's one of the most amazing hoaxes and frauds that's ever been achieved, and they've been getting away with it for 50 years."--Rush

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Aug 20, 2011, at 6:41 AM

Let's Talk About Fairness

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/s...

"Taxes are like a cancer out there. And the idea that we are not paying our fair share is so absurd. The problem is, or the fault is the irresponsibility of the people managing all of it."

Why is it when the president and congress, past and the present run up bills we can't pay, it is always some one's fault except their own?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Aug 20, 2011, at 6:38 AM

Don't worry ND,

...at the current rate of decreasing middle class income and the sharp increase in poor (gee I wonder where all those new poor people came from?), it won't be long before a whole lot of middle class conservative folks will have a very clear and concise understanding of what poverty really is all about.

Its just a matter of time.

I bet they will be singing a whole different song then lol lol lol...

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 19, 2011, at 7:20 PM

That Oxycontin has Rush's brain twisting, turning, and squirmin' like a toad...lol lol lol....

Drug additcts don't make good sources mate.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 19, 2011, at 6:14 PM

rr3yv0

Was Rush high as a kite when he said that?

I bet he was.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 19, 2011, at 6:12 PM

"Separating fact from fiction on U.S. economic myths"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/08/19/ec...

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 19, 2011, at 5:58 PM

RR

Actually, yes the Federal Spending multiplier is the largest of the 3 main tools used to cause the economy to grow. In fact, the empirical evidence indicates that the Federal Spending Multiplier is the most useful tool in pulling an economy out of a deflationary period.

However, I believe it would be better to go to direct government hiring of the unemployed and use that vast labor force to build a whole new energy grid utilizing solar and wind power, building a socialized medical system (the UK's socialized medical system created over a million new jobs in just the first year alone), and building a vast new infrastructure to meet the needs of a modern nation.

The conservative approach of cutting social programs has never been effective in growing an economy. In fact, 2 years into Reagan's first term -- after massive cuts in social programs -- unemployment hit 10%.

Massive government layoffs accompanied by massive job losses in recent years and more layoffs in the private sector do not grow jobs either mate.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 19, 2011, at 5:56 PM

Obama to Propose New Stimulus in Lame Attempt to Set Up Campaign

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/s...

The perfect set up to blame the Republicans that if they would have passed it then it would have saved us. Baloney! Typical liberal strategy to try to pass something you know your opponent is against and then claim victory when it fails. Brilliant! And somebody voted for these knotheads.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 19, 2011, at 5:42 PM

Well Nana I hate to break this to you but the health insurance crisis will only get worse with Obamacare. Did you know after you reach 73 years old they will no longer treat you for cancer under Obamacare? You know the bill we had to pass to see what was in it. Well facts are being uncovered and it is not good.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 19, 2011, at 5:35 PM

But news unemployment and food stamps grow the economy. Haven't you heard?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 19, 2011, at 5:32 PM

rr3yv0

Here in Australia they have all kinds of entitlement programs -- including, socialized medicine, a $14,000.00 first time buyers grant to help the young family to purchase that first new home, $14,000.00 a year to assist families with children who choose to have one of the partners/spouses stay home and raise the children, a public pension which goes to all retired citizens, and a whole slew of federal programs to assist Australia's poor and elderly.

Its not a perfect system, but it works (and so do the people -- plenty of jobs here in Oz).

We also have a AAA rating in Standard and Poor's...top rating.

I don't think the economic problem in America is causeed by entitlement programs mate. I think the problem is the unemployment in America and the 30+ years of conservative fiscal policies on both sides of the political aisle that lead to the conditions that created that unemployment.

Maybe its time we try the liberal approach...

...'cause that conservative approach clearly isn't working very well.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 19, 2011, at 5:05 PM

No news they only charge that against conservatives when they want to cut any free entitlement programs.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 19, 2011, at 4:32 PM

...and let's not forget,

they only call it "class warfare" when we average folks fight back.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 19, 2011, at 3:48 PM

ND.

The top 10% of the population -- the rich folks -- are very unlikely to voluntarily give back to the society that has done so much for them. After all if we didn't purchase their goods and services, they would be poor as dirt.

We the People made the rich folks rich. The rich had little to do with it. We the People made them rich. They owe our society big time.

Unfortunately, the conservatives kiss the rear of the rich folks. These average folks think somehow they will be in the rich people's club eventually so they rally behind the rich. Of course the rich won't let average folks -- or anyone else -- into their club. To do so would mean having to give up some of their wealth and they won't do that voluntarily.

So in the end, a massive economic depression is just what we need to wake folks up -- but its going to have to get a lot harder before the conservatives realize who their real enemy is -- the rich.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 19, 2011, at 3:29 PM

Jon Stewart was absolutely brilliant last night. Well worth the watch by either side if you can find it someplace.

-- Posted by Philemon on Fri, Aug 19, 2011, at 7:19 AM

OKR,

I am not surprised to learn the Chinese are so far advanced in providing cheap, solar based power and their goal for 2015 should be the target goal of every nation on Earth.

My wife and I are strong believers in solar power -- we put up 12 gigantic 200+ watt per hour solar panels up on the roof last April.

We like to think we are actively involved in reducing the greenhouse gasses that contribute to climate change and we have reduced our electric bill substantially as well.

Solar power is really mankinds only safe alternative and I believe it is the future of power production.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 19, 2011, at 2:43 AM

Excellent link ND.

My favorite quote -- from the piece:

"...in 2010, Texas tied with Mississippi for the highest percentage of workers employed in minimum-wage jobs."

It illustrates part of the agenda of the rich, elitist Republicans...low wages for the working majority, vast riches for the rich Republican minority.

If America elects any of those clowns the Republican elitists are offering us, America will be finished -- a last nail in the coffin type thing -- which is the other goal of the conservative elite.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 19, 2011, at 2:35 AM

It appears to me that the United States, a young pup of a nation, at a bit over two centuries old, is prematurely aged. For some reason, or reasons, we must be dragged kicking, and screaming, into the twenty first century. How ironic it is that China, the ancient of the east is way out in front in the march to modernity.

While we sanctify, and subsidize our treasured heirlooms; oil, coal, and nuclear power, China is casting them aside. Consequently they are running way out in front on the things that keep nations running. They are light years ahead of us on solar power. They are making governmental predictions that in just a few years the cost of their solar power will be at an equal cost with coal power. The growth of their solar power industry can only be described as explosive. Meanwhile our own dim efforts regarding solar power result in the failure of start up companies starved for capital.

Sadly in a few years we may be sitting in the dark, the only thing rocking being our chairs, as we sigh, and say they have so much more energy than we.

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2011/08/...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Aug 19, 2011, at 1:02 AM

"Wall Street firms donated $11.2 million to members of debt 'super committee'"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/08/18/wa...

Thanks Teaparty Republicans for selling out America!!

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 19, 2011, at 12:18 AM

Rick Perry and Islam

http://sultanknish.blogspot.com/2011/08/...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 18, 2011, at 10:31 PM

Our prison walls are too high to look over, moan terror suspects

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...

And liberals listen to them!!!!!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 18, 2011, at 10:21 PM

Wow news you are easy to tweak.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 18, 2011, at 10:03 PM

A Classic from "Mock the Dummy"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Trw8UsSZ...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Aug 18, 2011, at 7:10 PM

"The Mad (Republican) Tea Party"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyIZIiY81...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Aug 18, 2011, at 7:04 PM

"Perry's scientific beliefs questioned"

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/201...

Perry is starting to make Backmann look like a rocket scientist...lol lol lol.

Where do the conservatives find these geniuses?

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Aug 18, 2011, at 6:24 PM

"Bachmann: Americans fear 'the rise of the Soviet Union'"

http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/0...

Bachmann sure is dumb.

I for one do not want a person as President who does not even realize the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991.

Hey folks, here is a good idea...let's stop electing dummies to office and expecting different results.

Garbage in...garbage out.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Aug 18, 2011, at 6:15 PM

rr3yv0

You mean you don't know about Rush's addiction and related criminal charges against him in the past?

Oh yeah, he has a long history of drug abuse. He is a druggie. In fact, his greatest claim to fame was his "doctor shopping" to increase his possession of oxycontin -- a highly physically addictive, synthetic opiate -- "rich man's heroin."

I am shocked to learn you didn't read about him before and that you apparently are just learning of this man's serious addiction to hard drugs now. He was all over the news for his many years of addiction and criminal drug trafficking.

Here are a few articles that will tell you all about him...just so you realize that the probability that he is high on drugs when he makes those crazy statements...and probably all his waking hours -- is real strong.

Do you really think taking your politial advice from a drug addict (who is probably high as a kite most of the time) is a good idea?

" Rush Limbaugh Turns Himself In On Fraud Charge In Rx Drug Probe"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...

"Rush Limbaugh Arrested On Drug Charges"

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/04/2...

"Rush Limbaugh Arrested on Prescription Drug Charges"

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/28/us/28a...

"Rush Limbaugh arrested on prescription drug charges again"

http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/general-d...

...and the list goes on and on.

I am surprised you missed it -- real, real, real surprised...even shocked!!! How could you have missed the empirical evidence?.

Heck, a guy would almost have be trying to miss that news to not know about Rush's well known drug addiction...and yeah I bet he was high as a kite when he made every one of the quotes of his you post.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Aug 18, 2011, at 6:01 PM

The Cost of Compromise

http://www.capitalismmagazine.com/politi...

"Americans need to realize that Obama and the left are the poison."

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 18, 2011, at 5:30 PM

I don't know news I don't have any scientific evidence of that just your accusation.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 18, 2011, at 5:27 PM

rr3yv0

Was Rush high on Oxycontin when he said that?

I bet he was.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Aug 18, 2011, at 5:15 PM

Muslims denounce bill to ban 'foreign laws'

http://www.detnews.com/article/20110817/...

"It's racism at its core."

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 18, 2011, at 5:12 PM

"Public sector unions are a Democrat Party money laundering scheme. Tell me why somebody on your street should pay you twice what he earns and then promise you health care and salary for the rest of your life after you quit working?" -Rush

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 18, 2011, at 5:05 PM

Okr you really are a riot!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 18, 2011, at 11:53 AM

It is always tribal in the middle east. Ten years of war there, on top of hundreds of years of illustrative history, and we still don't get it?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/14/world/...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Aug 17, 2011, at 11:42 PM

rr3 I am consistently entertained by your growing list of new things that you blame on liberals.

I would be surprised if your reaction when you step on sidewalk gum is anything other than muttering "darn liberals".

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Aug 17, 2011, at 11:10 PM

Liberals Aren't Funny, They're a Riot!

"When blacks were only four generations out of slavery, their illegitimacy rate was about 23 percent (lower than the white illegitimacy rate is now). Then Democrats decided to help them! Barely two generations since LBJ's Great Society programs began, the black illegitimacy rate has tripled to 72 percent."

"Liberals love mobs because rioting and anarchy is their path to power."

"Liberals promote welfare dependency, class warfare, endless government programs staffed with public sector workers, street protests, coddling criminals and physical attacks on their ideological opponents. This is how they create reliable Democratic voters."

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?i...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Aug 17, 2011, at 9:50 PM

rr3yv0

Thus far the predictions made by the Climate Change model have been 100% correct fully verifying its accuracy.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Aug 17, 2011, at 9:44 PM

Sounds like you are preaching someone's religion Nana you are getting the amen's.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Aug 17, 2011, at 9:16 PM

Is that another one of those things you cannot prove and have no evidence news. Except anything you want to accept to support your argument. Nothing about climate change has been proven just theory you know kind of like evolution mate.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Aug 17, 2011, at 9:14 PM

"Bachmann campaign staffer imprisoned for suspected terrorism in Uganda in 2006"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/08/17/ba...

Lol lol lol...

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Aug 17, 2011, at 6:40 PM

...oh and...uh, there is something else.

Its going to get worse...much worse.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Aug 17, 2011, at 6:07 PM

"Record for billion-dollar weather disasters tied

National Weather Service chief laments 'new reality' across U.S."

"The "new reality" is that both the frequency and the cost of extreme weather are rising, making the nation more economically vulnerable and putting more lives and livelihoods at risk, Hayes said."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44179825/ns/...

Let me 'splain this to you.

Climate change = frequent, very severe weather patterns = decrease in arable land = decrease in food supply = higher food and textile prices -- and related products and services.

Thank the climate deniers who prevented our Govenment from doing anything substantial to reduce global warming. Thank the Republicans and the Democrats who insisted there was no global warming and no climate change.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Aug 17, 2011, at 5:52 PM

Amen Nana,

Amen.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Aug 17, 2011, at 3:54 PM

I will rr3,because what we have now is the lesser of two evils! I think the sane People See's it that way.It's like playing Football the Quarterback can't win by himself. It will be that way until the system is changed,whoever is the Leader. And that's not going to happen until the people take back control! When People See's that our Career Politicians is there to screw us,and not make things better! Term limits on all Public Officials,and a few other things. They think their Kings,not Public officials! Put some of their Pay and Benefits on the line too! Tell me would anyone get the kind of care that (SOB) Cheney is getting? Our life is just as valuable as any of theirs. Million's of people barely get care!!They get all this for life,in or out of Office! "O" and by the way Cheney and the rest of his crew should be in Jail for Treason, has everyone already forgot that? They have to much control over our Voting also,a lot of thing has to be changed! Don't everyone see this,or do you care??? I'm a dumb *** and i see it!!

-- Posted by Jo on Wed, Aug 17, 2011, at 1:42 PM

That's ok Nana after Obama our lifestyle will be low enough we will be able to compete with China's slave labor. It's coming to a factory near you.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Aug 17, 2011, at 11:08 AM

Now Obama announces that by Labor Day he will introduce a jobs and deficit reduction bill. Well la de da! Has anything this President proposed worked?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Aug 17, 2011, at 11:03 AM

I agree Jo if you like the direction of our country right now KEEP VOTING DEMOCRAT! And hang on to your seat!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Aug 17, 2011, at 11:00 AM

Were almost there rr3! Give these fools another try, without doing or saying anything, and we'll get there!

-- Posted by Jo on Tue, Aug 16, 2011, at 11:35 PM

Evergreen Solar files for bankruptcy, plans asset sale

http://www.bostonherald.com/business/tec...

Obamas green energy plan goes up in smoke. It was probably a sham anyway.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 16, 2011, at 11:02 PM

Ag Secretary: Food Stamps are 'Stimulus'

http://michellemalkin.com/2011/08/16/ag-...

I guess we just need everybody on unemployment! Yeehaw!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 16, 2011, at 10:55 PM

With school just starting up again.

A Speech Every American High School Principal Should Give

"If every school principal gave this speech at the beginning of the next school year, America would be a better place."

http://www.dennisprager.com/columns.aspx...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 16, 2011, at 10:41 PM

rr3yvo,

I'm not surprised you believe what FOX tells you. I'll take science and any other news organization over anything that FOX or the bible has to say.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Aug 16, 2011, at 2:34 PM

That's funny wtf I always thought that about the liberals and the lame stream media. How did you know what I was thinking?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 16, 2011, at 2:23 PM

Roger Ailes is a jerk but he's a smart jerk. Everything on the FOX channel is tailor made for the gullible.

Tailor made for the religious types. He knows they will committ to something 100% regardless of facts and they will keep coming back for more which means revenue. We are now in a full blown "idiocracy".

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Aug 16, 2011, at 11:56 AM

How the Head of Fox News Is Making Americans More Right-Wing, More Ignorant and Ever More Terrified!

http://www.alternet.org/teaparty/151980/...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Aug 16, 2011, at 10:42 AM

With the people we have in Washington there is NO such thing as Reasonable Negotiations, their all insane! We are at the point in our History were we have been bought and paid for buy the very rich, and nothing is going to change that now but the people to get Radical! I think they have total control of the Majorities Minds,Dem or Rep! They have most of the Populations minds conditioned to except any nonsense they put out! Matter of fact i'm almost tired of trying to keep up with all of it,it insane!It seems as though the Majority don't want a better life! I think our Government ,(over the Years) has made the young American People so passive,with all the Laws they wouldn't rebel against anything they would to them! That's a sad fact as far as i'm concerned! They need an Army of People in their Face, ready to break it! I really think thats all they would understand!???

-- Posted by Jo on Tue, Aug 16, 2011, at 12:27 AM

Oh hey, seriously, if the Republicans want to win the 2012 Presidential election hands-down with no sweat...

...run Ron Paul.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Aug 13, 2011, at 8:05 PM

"CNN's Don Lemon gets shoved, elbowed by Marcus Bachmann, campaign staff"

With video of the whole ugly incident captured on film.

http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/0...

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/cnns-don-lemo...

No doubt about it, she really knows how to dazzle the press. Another outstanding quality for a Republican Candidate for President.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Aug 13, 2011, at 7:05 PM

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/201...

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Aug 13, 2011, at 6:22 PM

"Bachmann wins Ames straw poll"

Wow!!! I told ya, she is the perfect candidate for the Republican Nomination for the office of President.

I am pleased to see the Iowa Republicans agree.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Aug 13, 2011, at 5:56 PM

Well I see Rick Perry has thrown his hat into the race.

After reading what he had to say, his biography, and some of the anti-American things he has done and said in Texas, it appears that...

...Rick Perry = Dubba Bush

We sure don't need another 4 years of Dubba.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Aug 13, 2011, at 5:53 PM

Jo

I agree -- its as if Obama decided right from the start that he was going to be a one term president.

Interestingly enough, he has only kept 3 of his over 800 campaign promises.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Aug 13, 2011, at 5:07 PM

Apparently we are a country that still cares about anything Sarah Palin has to say. We are so screwed.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Aug 13, 2011, at 9:09 AM

rr3yv0

I certainly do not approve of creating dangerous or violent circumstances by either side. That is why we have a negotiation process...to peaceful come to reasonable terms that benefit both parties to the contract.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Aug 13, 2011, at 5:47 AM

Right on both counts Jo. No surprise there.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Aug 13, 2011, at 12:44 AM

Mitt Romney only buys corporations and sells them off ! Gets rid of Jobs and makes Millions for him self! He has a history of that if you look it up!

-- Posted by Jo on Sat, Aug 13, 2011, at 12:23 AM

QUESTION: Is there any reason Obama couldn't appoint these People like Elizabeth Warren to the Consumer Protection Agency? There are other agencies Open for appointments also! They are out on recess,right? Or am i wrong? Another thing,is Obama satisfied going down in History as the first Black President,and don't want another term? He isn't tough enough for the hard stuff,do you think?

-- Posted by Jo on Sat, Aug 13, 2011, at 12:13 AM

Oh I believe you news but does it call for that kind of action?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 12, 2011, at 10:41 PM

rr3yv0

Well mate when they bring in scabs and strike-breakers, the workers will fight back.

Frankly that is pretty mild relative to some company tacticts against union workers in the past. In fact, it you want I can give you a whole slew of historically factual, brutal, violent attacks on workers by company management thugs. The companies have a long, infamous history of brutality to workers -- including children -- and I would be more than happy to dig a bunch of it up for you and post the links to each and every one of them in this forum if you would prefer.

Of course the fact that Verizon is threating their ability to feed their children...well...that is pretty a pretty serious matter as well.

Perhaps now Verizon will sit down at the negotiation table and negotiate in good faith as any reasonable company would do.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 12, 2011, at 8:28 PM

Striking Union Extremists Imprison Verizon Replacement Workers In Pennsylvania

http://www.redstate.com/laborunionreport...

Way to go unions.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 12, 2011, at 8:09 PM

rr3yv0

Lol..fear? lol lol lol...don't count on that mate, lol.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 12, 2011, at 7:58 PM

You Know The Left Truly Fears a GOP Candidate When...

http://www.redstate.com/repair_man_jack/...

"The second a leftist fears a Conservative politician; they immediately whip out either the race card or the class warfare card."

Seems that when the left report something facts don't matter but if the right even makes a mistake they are all over it. Wonder why that is? Go ahead liberals twist away.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 12, 2011, at 7:55 PM

"Anti-gay Indiana state rep solicited 18-year-old boy on Craigslist"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/08/12/an...

Another closeted gay Republican who hates himself...

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 12, 2011, at 4:45 PM

WTF,

Every now and again I read a comment in this forum that seems to trigger a thought I have had quite often over the past few years.

Your last comment was one such motivation for thought.

Your observation of our good fortune to which Tina Fey may have contributed greatly lead me to reflect for a moment on a possible Palin Vice Presidency (or worse, a "President Palin") and instantly one thought came to mind...

...thank goodness I live in Australia!

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 12, 2011, at 2:29 PM

news,

I understand what you are saying. Problem is people are so knee-jerk reactive anymore that she's libel to win. I think we also owe a debt of gratitude to Tina Fey. Without her it's possible that Palin could be vice-president right now.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Aug 12, 2011, at 7:07 AM

lol...wtf...

Remember mate, I am only supporting her for the Republican Nomination...maybe you should too.

lol

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 12, 2011, at 12:54 AM

news,

I take it your support of Bachman is just a place holder until Palin steps in the race?

Anyone see FOX news tonite? People actually listen to that BS. They should just change FOX to GOP. Then again, that might actually be the only truthful thing they have ever done.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Aug 11, 2011, at 11:31 PM

If Mitt Romney has the powers to magically create jobs, why does he have to wait to be president to do it? He's extorting us.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Aug 11, 2011, at 11:27 PM

Correct on the quotes News.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Aug 11, 2011, at 10:13 PM

rr3yv0

Granted Republicans do tend to march in locked goosestep, there is never-the-less the fact that now in the Wisconsin Senate there is but one vote difference between the Republicans and the Democrats...one vote's difference is pretty slim indeed.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Aug 11, 2011, at 9:21 PM

RR I mean it quite sincerely, I am fully supporting Michele Bachmann -- 100%, no apologies, support -- for the position of Republican Nominee to the Office of the President of the United States of America.

She has my primary vote for sure!

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Aug 11, 2011, at 9:16 PM

"Florida Gov. Rick Scott pays $30 per month for health insurance"

"Scott pays only $30 per month for taxpayer-subsidized health insurance for himself and his family, the Miami Herald reported. Meanwhile, the janitors who clean his office in the state Capitol pay six times as much out of pocket for their own health coverage."

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/08/11/fl...

Sounds like the classic case of do as I say but not as I do.

Sounds like the classic Republican double standard -- everything for the Republican elite politicians -- nothing for the American working middle class.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Aug 11, 2011, at 9:13 PM

Win or lose they still control the Senate that's what matters.

Oh by the way have you become a Christian too. While you are patronizing I just thought I would ask. I mean you wouldn't want to leave anybody out would you?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 11, 2011, at 9:05 PM

Well friends,

As you may know, I have been struggling to figure out which of the Republican candidates for the Republican nomination for President in 2012 that I prefer to support.

I have decided.

I am going full steam in support for Congresswoman Michelle Bachmann.

It was a tough decision.

All the Republican candidates have their good points -- but only Bachmann has those...well...really fine points we need in a Republican candidate for President.

She says crazy stuff, the press points out her crazy statements, and she just keeps on being crazy anyway.

Now that is intergrity!!

I still haven't decided who I will be supporting for President, but the important thing (lol) is that I have finally made the tough decision and decided who I am supporting for the Republican candidacy.

GO BACHMANN GO!!!

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Aug 11, 2011, at 8:04 PM

OKR,

I believe those statements were made by the Hero of the right-wing, Adolf Hitler.

He talked alot about the right=wing's Christian duty to conquer the World and save it from some imagined World-wide, Jewish/Socialist conspiracy.

Of course the boogyman of the right wing is the Muslim now.

Interestingly enough, almost all the Middle Eastern Muslims are Arabs...and Arabs are, like the Jews, Semite. So while the right-wing's greatest hero is gone, his antisocialism and antisemitism is alive and well...in America.

What a shame.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Aug 11, 2011, at 7:43 PM

The preceding are all quotes from one individual.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Aug 11, 2011, at 7:23 PM

As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice.

As soon as by one's own propaganda even a glimpse of right on the other side is admitted, the cause for doubting one's own right is laid.

He alone, who owns the youth, gains the future

I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator.

It is always more difficult to fight against faith than against knowledge.

Sooner will a camel pass through a needle's eye than a great man be "discovered" by an election.

Success is the sole earthly judge of right and wrong.

The doom of a nation can be averted only by a storm of flowing passion, but only those who are passionate themselves can arouse passion in others.

The great masses of the people will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one.

The very first essential for success is a perpetually constant and regular employment of violence.

Who says I am not under the special protection of God?

What good fortune for governments that the people do not think.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Aug 11, 2011, at 7:19 PM

Uh RR...they netted 2 additional seats they didn;t have before and the Republicans had a net loss of 2 seats.

You call a net gain of 2 seats losing?

lol...it seems we have a different understanding of the meaning of the word "lose."

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Aug 11, 2011, at 4:55 PM

The unions outspent them all and still lost what do you make of that?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 11, 2011, at 3:48 PM

That statement doesn't even make sense Nana.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 11, 2011, at 2:10 PM

"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." --Margaret Thatcher

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Aug 10, 2011, at 10:49 PM

The unions spent $35 million in Wisconsin and the Republicans still control the Senate. The voters of Wisconsin stopped a union take over.

Oh and don't forget to watch Al Sharpton on PMSNBC. Hoorah!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Aug 10, 2011, at 10:40 PM

"Wall Street takes another beating; Dow slumps 520 as investors fret about economy"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/

http://money.cnn.com/2011/08/10/markets/...

"Ratigan: Republicans 'want to burn the place to the ground'"

http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/0...

This is the yeild of 30 years of conservative policies by both parties.

I don't think this is going to clear itself up. Its not going to "self-correct.

Thanks conservatives and you folks who voted for these conservatives for brining our Nation to its knees.

To those swing voters and conservatives who voted for conservative Republicans or conservative Democrats remember, you will suffer just as much as everyone else. Your being "on their side" won't save you. You will starve along with the rest of America.

Idiots.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Aug 10, 2011, at 4:51 PM

rr3yv0

Question: Who do you think the Chinese plan to use the aircraft carrier on?

If you guessed us, you are right.

Thanks to rich Americans the Chinese will soon have the most powerful navy, army, and airforce the World has ever seen and they plan to use that force to finally bring an end to the USA...if the conservatives don't kill us first. Helping the Chinese to build the most powerful military and naval force in the World is an act of treason.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Aug 10, 2011, at 4:34 PM

That's right Nana you got it. Hip Hip Hooray!!!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Aug 10, 2011, at 2:58 PM

It's a trap Nana that's what they want you to believe. Guess what it's working. You still believe this after Obama has spent more then all of the past presidents. Oh and ruined our credit rating too on his watch. That's funny.

We need a leader that leads, not blame their mess on someone else. But hey as long as they got followers then it will never end. So Nana it's rah rah Obama?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Aug 10, 2011, at 1:23 PM

Yes news it is!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Aug 10, 2011, at 8:52 AM

Nana you sure sound like you are describing Obama.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Aug 10, 2011, at 8:51 AM

"China's first carrier starts sea trials"

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapc...

Isn't Free Market Capitalism just great!!

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Aug 10, 2011, at 3:11 AM

"Upper-class people less empathetic than lower-class people: study"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/08/09/up...

"Social Class as Culture:

The Convergence of Resources and Rank in the Social Realm"

http://cdp.sagepub.com/content/20/4/246....

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Aug 9, 2011, at 8:07 PM

Actually RR there are some Democrats I like...of course.

I like Congressmaa Emanuel Cleaver, III who is my Rep in Congress from Independence. In fact, I like and support all of the Congressional members of the Black Caucus.

I like Congressman Kucinich of Cleveland Ohio and Representative Barney Frank of Newton, Massachusetts. In fact, I like and support all the Congressional Progressive Caucus.

I don't like or support President Obama.

I don't support him and other conservative Democrats because of their conservative policies -- such as 4 wars against 4 Nations that never attacked us and never had the ability to attack us, conservative economic policies -- Neoclassical economics (aka Free Market Economics, Supply Side Economics, Voodoo Economics, ect) which have left our poor and middle class in serious trouble while the rich are posting record profits while paying little if any taxes. I don't support their conservative policies because the same conservative approach over the last 30+ years has meant no Real Wage increase for the poor and middle classes while the rich got filthy richer.

My support of 3rd Parties such as the Greens and the Socialists reflects my Social Libertarian roots, and my support of Keynsian Economic policies reflects my professional opinion as an Economist. We know it works. We have the empirical evidence encased within the historical record.

As to whether or not my support of 3rd Parties benefits the Democrats...I doubt it. When I vote 3rd Party it is one less possible vote for the Democrats and one less possible vote for the Republicans.

When the Democrat Party rids itself of the conservative Democrats, such as Obama, abandons its failed conservative policies, and returns to its progressive roots then I would be very likely to return to supporting the Democrats.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Aug 9, 2011, at 6:12 PM

I thought you were talking presidential politics effected by third party candidates rr3 (George Wallace, and Strom Thurmond come to mind as two more that benefited Republicans).

Regarding congressional campaigns I'll have to think about that some more, though my initial thought is that both parties have benefited from third party candidates in congressional elections.

One other thing about third party candidates is that on the congressionallevel they at times have a fighting chance, unlike presidential politics.

I too am looking for good third party candidates. I agree our two party system is in grid lock, and is failing us.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Aug 9, 2011, at 3:29 PM

Democrats Back Third Parties to Siphon Votes

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/23/us/pol...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 9, 2011, at 2:43 PM

Didn't say it was 100% okr sometimes when you gamble you lose.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 9, 2011, at 2:38 PM

Gore v. Bush, enter Ralph Nader, exit Gore. Don't think you are correct that third party candidates help the Democrats.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Aug 9, 2011, at 2:27 PM

I know in the past okr that a third party vote usually favors the Democrat. So I don't see the difference. I wish we could get enough interest in voting for someone that is not Democrat or Republican. I would also like to see a larger voter turn out. But really it all plays into the hands of the Democrats and their plan. Have the majority of people dependent on the government, so there is an outcry if someone tries to cut any of it. Encourage a third party candidate when the competition is tough, hoping it will pull votes away from the competition. And spend other people's money, while complaining it is never enough and it is all the fault of the Republicans. Sound familiar?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 9, 2011, at 11:59 AM

Nana is it any different then what is happening in America on Obama's watch?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 9, 2011, at 10:23 AM

rr3 how can you say that News keeps defending those you mention? Over, and over he has said throw all the rascals out, and that he intends to vote third party. Where does your disconnect come from?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Aug 9, 2011, at 9:40 AM

But news you keep defending and voting for the very people that put us in this mess. I'm glad you finally saw the light about Obama so there is still hope. Have a good day.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 9, 2011, at 9:06 AM

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/08/08/po...

here is the specific link to the poll article

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Aug 9, 2011, at 12:03 AM

"Poll: 62 percent say debt ceiling deal benefits the rich and hurts the poor"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/08/08/po...

X=ray tell your teaparty frinds to pack their bags...We the People are about to kick them to the curb along with their Republican buddies in 2012.

You can try to defend them. You can try to apologize for their Anti-Americanism, you can cry to us about how they are just "misunderstood"...

...but come November, 2012, We the People will be permanently terminating their positions in our Congress...and we don't want them back.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Aug 9, 2011, at 12:02 AM

http://www.nationalcenter.org/P21PR-Down...

Comments from some evil conservative racists... lol (Read the article and find out who wrote it to figure out the "racist" joke)

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Aug 8, 2011, at 10:09 PM

Obama led our nation to unprecidented new Hopes and Changes.... he is the FIRST President to preside over a reduction in our credit rating.... YAY Obama..

He had THREE years to overcome Bush's so called obstacles that he supposedly inherited... IF Obama can blame Bush for all that is wrong and take none of the blame then I Can blame Obama for the ENTIRE financial debacle that has take place UNDER HIS WATCH

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Aug 8, 2011, at 10:08 PM

Iran's rich eat ice cream covered in gold as poor struggle to survive

http://www.iranfocus.com/en/index.php?op...

The similarities of Ahmadinejad and Obama are scary.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Aug 8, 2011, at 10:06 PM

"Hartmann: It's time 'to abolish the institution of corporate personhood'"

http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/0...

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Aug 8, 2011, at 5:03 PM

"President Bernie Sanders" has a nice ring to it.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Aug 8, 2011, at 2:05 AM

I don't think she will do it News, unless she does it a la Bobby Kennedy who jumped in the water after Eugene McCarthy broke the ice.

It is a long time until New Hampshire, there may be room, and national mood for an upstart Democratic candidate by then.

My own thought is that if there were ever a time for a third party ticket of true independents it is now. I have good vibes about a Bernie Sanders, Lincoln Chafee ticket. They would change the dynamic in Iowa, and New Hampshire.

Incidentally Lincoln Chafee was the only Republican Senator to show the good sense, and guts to vote against the Iraq War resolution. He became an indendent after that. Bernie, long time independent, we know about him, always the people's candidate.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Aug 7, 2011, at 11:59 PM

Oklahoma Reader

Just a thought here mate, its not too late for Secretary of State Clinton to throw her hat in the Democratic ring.

You can bet she would never capitulate to the Republicans. She is very experienced at motivating them.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Aug 7, 2011, at 10:53 PM

"What Happened To Obama?"-NYT http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/07/opinio...

Yes, I know some of you will say stop beating a dead horse. In response I say it is better to beat a dead horse, than to be forced to vote for one in 2012.

If we are forced to that choice, and it does appear to have more than a remote chance of happening, an old Democrat saying, I would rather vote for a yellow dog running on the Democratic ticket, than any one on the Republican ticket, will be updated. We will be forced to realize, and say, I would rather vote for a dead horse than the Republican candidate. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Aug 7, 2011, at 1:10 PM

rr3 enjoyed the sixteen reasons post. There were only about three lines with which I disagreed. That is a sea change. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Aug 6, 2011, at 11:02 PM

rr3yv0

In my previous comment I was referring to your comment regarding the infinate resources and substitutes you think we have.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Aug 6, 2011, at 10:19 PM

rr3yv0

Yeah that is what that guy on Easter Island said.

Boy was he wrong!!

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Aug 6, 2011, at 10:17 PM

China Building Electromagnetic Pulse Weapons For Use Against U.S. Carriers

http://www.prophecynewswatch.com/2011/Ju...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Aug 6, 2011, at 10:16 PM

Those wondering if China might come to the rescue will think differently after reading The Telegraph's take on the reaction of the Chinese. www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcri...

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Sat, Aug 6, 2011, at 10:01 PM

16 Reasons Why The United States Can No Longer Afford To Be The Police Of The World

http://endoftheamericandream.com/archive...

This puts it in perspective.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Aug 6, 2011, at 9:47 PM

To say we use 30% of the world's resources one would have to assume that our resources are maxed out. I don't think so. One of our problems is our government that hinders production therefore driving up the cost. I don't think this world will ever run out of resources because if we run out of one thing, we will come up with something else to use. We always have and I don't think we will die off because of lack of resources.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Aug 6, 2011, at 9:13 PM

Do you really think the whole world would consume according to population. Does that mean we cut food production so we just feed our 7%? If we only consume our fair share should we produce more then we need? Only if we lived in a bubble. How ludicrous would that be.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Aug 6, 2011, at 7:42 PM

Thank you for the info Nana but I really wish you had a point about content. Thanks anyway

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Aug 6, 2011, at 7:36 PM

"Are Liberals having 'buyer's remorse' about Obama?"

http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/0...

Uh...yeah.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Aug 6, 2011, at 5:55 PM

NanaDot

In no way did I say I would support Governor Perry.

I only said I am willing to hear him and all the candidates out.

After I have heard all the candidates out, I will cast my vote for that candidate who I think has the best plan.

There is about a 98.5% that the candidate who gets my vote and support will be in the Green Party.

Still...I am willing to hear out every candidate and I am willing to strongly oppose those canidates who only offer us more of the same insano policies of the Bush Republicans, the Teaparty Republicans, or the Obama Democrats (who are really Republicans in Democrat clothing).

Our Nation is in serious trouble as a result of years of conservative policies by both Republicans and Democrats.

We need a new deal, and I doubt we will get that new deal from either Republicans or Democrats.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Aug 6, 2011, at 5:18 PM

Liberal Frankensteins

"From Greece to California, the liberal dream is dead."

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/2...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Aug 6, 2011, at 4:31 PM

I don't have one but it sounded like you did.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Aug 6, 2011, at 1:00 PM

Insulting Christians ok but terrorist no way? Is that what you're saying? If you are insulted then say so. No whining zone!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Aug 6, 2011, at 12:00 PM

One other thing, and I will let this subject go for now. I believe that from early in our human development we became instinctually tribal as a survival mechanism. Tribalism remains within each of us at our very core.

Tribalism manifests itself in many ways in our world even today. Among The more overt are those such as the middle eastern loyalty to tribe above all which shapes all that occurs there, and the tragic, savage, tribally generated genocidal wars in Africa, and elsewhere. There are more subtle manifestations of tribalistic instinct, from the current world wide strife over immigration, to racism in this country, and elsewhere.

I believe that until we admit this original instinct individually, and as a species, and realize that this instinct must be considered as a part of nearly every conflict that occurs, we can not successfully resolve any of those conflicts.

As is the case with some other of our baser instincts we must realize that they are largely relics, and rise above them. To deny them is counter-productive.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Aug 6, 2011, at 1:55 AM

ND,

I only said I was willing to listen to his proposals for his plan if he were elected President, but I never said I would necessarily support him and vote for him.

However, a lot of folks are Christian and that in and of itself is no problem for me. I respect Perry's right, and everyone's right to worship as they wish. That is fine.

With Rick Perry though I think its just a political gimmack. Heck everyone knows he is going to run for Pres. So of course he has to appeal to his Party before he can even get on the ticket...and most Republicans are of the Christian faith. So I am not surprised.

What I am interested in hearing is his new bold plan -- if he has one at all -- to save our Nation from economic ruin. Its only fair that we hear what he has to say. But that is all any of us owe any candidate. I will listen. I have an open door policy, but I frankly doubt I will like what I hear...lol.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 5, 2011, at 11:28 PM

I didn't figure you could make a decision.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 5, 2011, at 11:07 PM

Take your pick.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 5, 2011, at 10:14 PM

So what is so wrong with that Nana? Obama met with terrorist did you have a problem with that?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 5, 2011, at 9:57 PM

John Kerry tells the media to ignore the Tea Party they are nothing and Obama still thinks unemployment benefits creat jobs. I hate to tell him this but it's not working. Who voted for these guys anyway.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 5, 2011, at 9:47 PM

rr3yv0

You are probably right mate.

At this point I am interested in hearing where Governor Perry stands on the issues. After all, just like Democrats, not all Republicans think exactly the same. My understanding is that Governor Perry has been very successful in Texas with a number of new ideas he put into his policies there, and we all want the best man for the Job of President.

So far, I would say Governor Perry is a good man of outstanding character. I know of no blights on his record, and the record he does have as Governor seems to have been pretty good.

As an independent voter, I am always interested in hearing what all the candidates have to offer our Nation -- no matter their Party. I think its only fair and to any of my friends on the left who might chide me for considering a Republican, I would remind them that President Lincoln and President Teddy Roosevelt -- both great Presidents in their own right -- were Republicans.

However, if Rick Perry espouses Teaparty "ideals" and/or his proposals are anything like lil' Johnny Boehner's, then I will have to rule the Governor out of my consideration for the position of President. And frankly I think that would be a shame, because I do believe Rick Perry is a highly intelligent and very capable politician -- but can he govern from the center or will we end up with another Obama -- promising one thing in his campaign then doing the opposite in his Presidency?

Anyway, there are a lot of good candidates out there who we still need to hear out. I hope this time around we can find a good and honorable person who genuinely loves our great Nation as much as all of us do.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 5, 2011, at 9:14 PM

I hear Obama had a big birthday party at the White House last night after the stock market took a dump, over $1 trillion in assets lost. Can we even believe the unemployment numbers? If the job force was as large now as when Obama took office unemployment would be over 11%. That's where the media would report it if a Republican was in office. Real unemployment is probably closer to 20%. Why is the job force not as large, because they have destroyed it. I guess we could call him Emperor Obama because he don't care folks. All these economic numbers are bad but the media is trying to tell us it is good. It ought to be an insult to your intelligence. Like the comedian Bill Engvall says, "there is some things you can't fix" and "here's your sign". Carry it proudly.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 5, 2011, at 9:03 PM

Sounds like 'We the people'(that voted for Obama) got fooled by voting for him the first time. I predict this next election will be no different because even if you vote for a third party it will be the same as a vote for Obama. I am not in a hurry to get excited about 2012 just yet because I am not sure any candidate can out campaign Obama. It won't matter what condition we are in the lame stream media will spin him right back in office. If you think the first term was bad just double down on what we already have I can't imagine what it would be like.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 5, 2011, at 8:43 PM

Properly chastised (doubly so) I have to admit I didn't do a very good job of expressing my point. News I have heard the N word used in the connotations I referenced by Af-Ams and noted the a sound at the end. I am not short of black acquaintances. I was not aware it was spelled differently.

ND, in short, Obama is not a Tom to me, but I think Af-Ams have a different perspective, perhaps even earned ownership of the word, and the terms of its use. I would call all three Prezs corporatist pigs. I would like to see more pressure come from the African American voting block.

I am concerned that they are the other constituentcy that put him into office (along with progressive populists) whose concerns have been ignored.

Beyond that, sorry folks, sometimes I talk about things that aren't talked about. Perhaps it is my insensitivity, but I think it as much other's special sensitivity to certain subjects.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Aug 5, 2011, at 6:14 PM

NanaDot

One thing that I keep thinking about is would Obama's 2nd term be like his first or will he use his then lame-duck status to push through the legislation We the People elected him for?

I recall Nixon's 2nd campaign when he departed drastically from the conservative rhetoric of his 1st term as President.

Clearly, Presidents care very much about their legacy. I feel certain Obama has been keeping a 2nd term in mind all along. He may very well govern as We the People had hoped in his 2nd term when he is not preoccupied with worrying about any further elections.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 5, 2011, at 5:46 PM

Oklahoma Reader

When we were vacationing in Chicago, I noticed that some of my friends who I was visiting were awfully quiet about Obama. Most my friends in Chicago are African American and I was surprised they were not more enthusiastic with Obama. I talked about it with some of my buddies and they told me that while they were proud America finally elected an African American as President, his policies brought only harm to the African American community. Much like many other Americans, it would seem Obama is not the kind of change a lot of black folks had in mind.

As to the N-word -- yep terrible word. The word that many African Americans use to refer to one another is not the same word. They sound they similar but in fact are 2 different words. one has an ending spelled "....er and the other is spelled ....a. They are 2 similarly spelled words with completely different meanings.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 5, 2011, at 4:44 PM

As a caucasian I can not use the N word in any context which is fine by me. To me it is vile, and demeaning to whomever is addressed by it in any context. Even that context wherein it is used lovingly by one black person to another, in a demonstration of solidarity it is still tainted. Despite the connotation of shared misery it remains disrespectful. That is just my opinion.

I am wondering if because I am white, I am also prohibited from using the word Tom as a descriptive of a black male who is subservient to white people with power? Be that as it may, I wonder even more why people of color have not began to use it as a pejorative in regard to Barak Obama?

He has bowed, and scraped over, and over to the corporate powers (mostly white males). He advocated bailing them out when in trouble. He did not stand firm regarding taxation of the rich, in fact he has markedly not ever gone against them with emphasis. He has allowed them to have everything that they want. On the other hand he has promoted, and signed off on a budget agreement of which the burden rests only on the backs of the middle class, and even more disproportionately on the backs of the poor.

Unfortunately it is fact that a large portion of the people of color are among the poor. In fact, the case can be made that black Americans suffer more from our economic downturn, and this budget agreement than any other group. In fact, it is at the least arguable that Obama has given every thing desired by the white powerful elite, at the greatest expense to the African American community.

The real question in the end is not whether or, not I may call Barak Obama a Tom. It is why aren't African Americans calling him Tom? If things do not change he may hear that epitaph ringing in his ears as he is driven from office.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Aug 5, 2011, at 4:17 PM

rr3yv0

Well I guess sometimes good things can come out of bad times buddy.

I am really happy to hear you are bicycling.

I bicycle everyday. I used to drive everywhere I went, but since I started bicycling I have almost completely given up driving.

Bicycling is so good for the body. Since I started biking around, I have become much healthier, I look better (well as much as this old dog can look lol), and most importantly, I feel better.

But I gotta tell ya buddy, I am not sure I have the strength to bicycle 13 miles everyday. My hat is off to you if you can do it mate, but I know I probably would not be going that far on a daily basis.

Heck RR, by the time this economic downturn finally ends you ought to be in pretty darn good shape from all that riding.

Good on ya mate!!

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 5, 2011, at 3:56 PM

Obama is Bizzaro FDR.-David Sirota

I hope Obama has a primary challenger. If so that candidate will get my money, and time.

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/the_...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Aug 5, 2011, at 2:24 PM

rr3 good things you are doing. A slight upside to what we are beginning to go through is that it will stop our ridiculous quest for every new thing that comes down the pike, and is hawked endlessly in themass media. That part will probably be good for us.

I have been an advocate of simple living for over thirty years. Most folks thought it was bizzare, but more are coming around.

Glad you had a great garden. Mine burned up. I watered it as needed, but it could not stand incessant 100 plus temps, but that is another problem.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Aug 5, 2011, at 12:49 PM

One thing I don't understand news if this new legislation to increase the debt ceiling by over 2 trillion dollars then where are the cuts? If we truly made cuts wouldn't the debt ceiling stay the same or go down? Or is this just more government manipulation with the math?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 5, 2011, at 11:39 AM

Wtf not chastising just stating a fact buddy. By your statement I don't think you understand what I believe.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 5, 2011, at 11:31 AM

News I agree with you and I also agree that things are going to get worse. I said that before Obama got elected. Some of this should have been done years ago to correct the economy and it wouldn't have been so painful now. But when we see the writing on the wall what do you do? You have to bite the bullet so yes be prepared for inflation, high fuel prices, high food prices and the dominoe effect that has on other prices. I grew a large garden this year and have been canning and freezing anything I can. I started bicycling last year and figure if gas gets high enough I can bicycle for my 13 mile commute to work if I have to.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 5, 2011, at 11:28 AM

News that was an outstanding plain language presentation of our economic dilemma. In my opinion any one that doesn't get it at this point, ain't never gonna get it. Those folks just flat do not have rationality on the menu for the mental table they set.

ND same for your presentation. In my opinion no one can rationally ignore those cold hard facts.

Which brings me to this question, why would a rational person even argue these FACTS with those who deny them? It seems to me that irrationality is a contagion, and perhaps it is best to subject it to quarantine. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Aug 5, 2011, at 9:42 AM

rr3yvo,

You are chastising others for falling "hook, line and sinker?" for something?

Well, at least you observe the holy trinity. Hubris, Hyperbole and Hypocrisy.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Aug 5, 2011, at 6:19 AM

"World stock prices plunge amid 'general fear' of a new US recession, European debts"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44030567/ns/...

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 5, 2011, at 4:59 AM

"Asian stocks tumble after Wall Street slide"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44028848/ns/...

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 5, 2011, at 3:19 AM

"Poll: Large majority disapprove of Congress but Americans split on Obama"

"A record breaking 82 percent disapprove of the way Congress is doing its job."

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/08/04/po...

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 5, 2011, at 1:56 AM

rr3yv0

I agree the Democrat Party as lead by President Obama is 100% equally guilty of passing this terrible legislation.

The complicity by Senator Reid and other top ranking Democrats and the complete capitulation by President is clear for all to see.

However, we in the public also witnessed how that surrender came about. We saw the Teaparty threaten to shut down our Government entirely if they did not get everything they wanted. We the People watched in horror as the Teaparty forced its will on a hostage America.

Many of us are sickened by Obama's relentless capitulation to the Republicans, but it pales in comparison to what the Teaparty did to our Nation.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 5, 2011, at 1:52 AM

rr3yv0

The stockmarket is a gauge of the investor's confidence in the future of the economy.

The investors are very nervous right now -- real nervous -- so nervous that the Dow dropped 500 points today -- that is a stockmarket crash -- they just haven't told you that...yet.

The investors have good reason to be nervous. They know that the Teaparty legislation means a huge decrease in Government purchases -- the largest single consumer in our economy and also the largest employer. Which brings me to a second point, the largest employer in the United States is also about to layoff a whole bunch of consumers -- who will now switch to automous consumption -- bare necessity spending -- this lowers consumption even further resulting in private enterprise laying off workers due to the slower sales -- resulting in even less consumption and more layoffs and so on and so forth. Its a domino effect mate and it will ripple through out the entire economy.

The stockmarket investors know full well what that means. In essence, the Teaparty legislation is a form of anti-Federal Spending Multiplier that not only does not create the new consumption our already deflated economy absolutly requires for recovery, but in fact now the Government will not only reduce its own consumption of goods and services but cause former consumers (Government employees) to reduce their durable goods and new housing starts purchases. In addition, the Government will be less able to provide new business start up assistance for small businesses. That is bad. It means that we are about to tighten the heck out of the money supply in so many different ways. This means interest rates will be rising...substantially. Such an increase will result in those business who are doing well and wish to hire more workers postponing their expansion until liquidity is loosened. They will wait for the interest rates to return to near current levels. This will mean an increase in the rate of unemployment and even less B to B consumption and less retail consumption -- that is bad -- real bad for the economy. On top of all that, a whole slew of businesses that have that either do business with the Goverment directly or indirectly will be laying off their workers and closing their doors -- increasing unemployment and further decreasing consumption.

Finally, when the American People or any group of consumers fear for their jobs, they stop consuming new housing starts and durable goods resulting in a huge decrease in retail consumption -- the engine of the economy.

It isn't necessary for the cuts to have taken place before we see the effect on consumption and jobs. That starts right away. Capitlaism, even guided captialism such as we have in the Western Industrialized countries, is very sensitive to any reduction in consumption. The fear that a person just might, just maybe, be looking at a possible layoff in the near future will and does cause consumers to immediately reduce their consumption of durable goods and new housing starts. The net effect is reduced sales, reduce inventories, and massive layoffs if the consumption decrease is large enough...and all the indicators right now point to a sharp decrease in consumption.

Like it or not mate, things are about to get even worse.

All this is occuring during an economy still deflationary at its core. We were making some slow headway in recovery before this. Unemployment was slowly coming down and consumption was increasing at slow but healthy rate.

Then they passed this legisilation and it will be taking effect in the midst of a still deflationary economy. To those of us in economics, we know that means economic suicide.

Like it or not, that is the way it is mate. You don't have to take my word for it -- you will be living it.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Aug 4, 2011, at 11:45 PM

rr3 calm down old fellow. There is enough heat outside with out boiling over inside. I don't want to see you go all apoplectic on us. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Aug 4, 2011, at 11:43 PM

News I think you are wrong it is still business as usual in Washington. The debt ceiling was increased where are the cuts? THERE AREN'T ANY!!!!!!! Why don't we put this blame where it needs to be squarely in Obama and the Democrats but hey I'm sure you can't see that looking through your rose colored glasses. And yea I know the Democrats and the lame stream media will do everything they can to get you to blame conservatives, Republicans, Tea Partiers, etc. and you know what it is working. You buy it hook, line and sinker. Congratulations!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 4, 2011, at 10:56 PM

Blame the Washington Bureaucracy for High Gas Prices

http://blog.heritage.org/2011/08/04/morn...

"Americans are paying more for gasoline today than they were six weeks ago when President Obama released 30 million barrels of oil from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve."

Hey news maybe it's the Tea Parties fault have you finally grown tired of blaming Bush? How funny!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 4, 2011, at 10:17 PM

Nana you still didn't tell me if the facts in the article are incorrect or not. The facts are either true or they are not and it doesn't matter what the source is. I know you hate all those people but we already know that.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 4, 2011, at 10:07 PM

Hey maybe the New York Stock Exchange will change the way they begin trading each day of business.

Instead of just ringing a bell, all the traders should shout "Welcome to the Teaparty."

Just so we keep fresh in our minds who to thank in the next election for this glorius economic Nirvana our most gracious conservatives led us to.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Aug 4, 2011, at 7:34 PM

"Stock markets have terrible day; Dow drops 500 points"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44000197/ns/...

So how is that Teaparty cut, slash, and burn thing working out for ya far?

Well hang on to your seats folks...cause this ride has just begun.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Aug 4, 2011, at 6:46 PM

So Nana make your point. Are the facts incorrect?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 4, 2011, at 2:41 PM

Ten Myths About the Bush Tax Cuts

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Reports...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 4, 2011, at 11:22 AM

The Historical Lessons of Lower Tax Rates

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports...

I think it boils down to a spending problem more then a revenue problem. Uncertainty by this regime has businesses holding back because they don't want to invest then be punished for it. It has to be a balance of tax rates and less incentives to hide income but government also has to spend wisely to build confidence in the economy. Stop bailing out companies that need to go bankrupt. We may suffer some pain for a little while but it will be better in the end. As long as the government props them up then the pain will linger a lot longer.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 4, 2011, at 11:07 AM

Good point RR.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Aug 4, 2011, at 12:46 AM

Doubtful rr3.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Aug 3, 2011, at 9:05 PM

I don't think it matters okr who puts up a candidate. There are good one's out there but will they ever win a nomination?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Aug 3, 2011, at 7:55 PM

Oops I mean after he created everything.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Aug 3, 2011, at 7:53 PM

I would say he is over qualified wouldn't you say? I mean after you created everything.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Aug 3, 2011, at 7:52 PM

rr3yvo,

Why don't you run for president? Maybe you could have Jesus as your running mate?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Aug 3, 2011, at 7:33 PM

rr3 you said. "You know news what is really scary is Obama may be the best candidate they put up for the job."

Do you mean by "they" the corporatocracy that essentially selects the candidates for both parties these days? Or, do you mean more generally, the Republican, and Democratic parties? If that is what you meant I am inclined to agree with you, and ain't it a shame that is the best America can do.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Aug 3, 2011, at 7:22 PM

You know news what is really scary is Obama may be the best candidate they put up for the job.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Aug 3, 2011, at 6:31 PM

I'm surprised you put up with it news.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Aug 3, 2011, at 6:29 PM

"Cutting spending will soon be said to have triggered an economic collapse. In just two days, we have a new Armageddon. They say all these spending cuts -- and there aren't any -- will lead to a downturn, as if we ever got out of the recession in the first place. Soon it'll be poor Obama has no choice but to raise taxes." -Rush

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Aug 3, 2011, at 6:28 PM

To our conservative fellows,

Listen if you fellas want to impeach Obama...well...a lot of us on the left would not complain...lol.

I don't think a President Joe Biden would have ever caved to the conservative special interests like Obama did.

Oh by the way, I hear Obama is considering running for the Republican Nomination for President in 2012...lol.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Aug 3, 2011, at 5:10 PM

WTF...

Absolutely mate.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Aug 3, 2011, at 4:33 PM

Does anyone else see the irony of someone posting a dismissive comment about science on the internet and that it's also entirely possible it was done using a wireless device?

Science 1

Religion 0

....again.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Aug 3, 2011, at 4:09 PM

Federal Aviation Administration initiates partial shut-down due to lack of Govenment funding

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/08/03/as...

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Aug 3, 2011, at 3:58 PM

rr3yv0

In terms of scientific data -- yes.

The poll was done utilizing standard quantitative methods, and math is the purest science.

If you mean do I need "evidence" that I will wake in the morning...still alive? With such things one can only rely on probability. If I am in good health and I am not subject to unusual risks then the probability is that I will awaken as usual. So I can reasonable say I believe I will awaken alive and well in the morning.

Different aspects of life require different levels of evidence and probability. The degree to which some event is likely to occur or not occur depends upon the correct chance occurances. Most events are a roll of the dice.

However, EXTRAORDINARY claims indeed require EXTRAORDINARY evidence.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Aug 3, 2011, at 3:47 PM

News I have to ask what does that peer reviewed scientific evidence prove? That is all you believe isn't it?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Aug 3, 2011, at 2:47 PM

Hey wtf you might be on to something, you have been very flattering and full of good ideas lately. Thanks so much buddy.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Aug 3, 2011, at 2:42 PM

"Poll: Muslims, atheists most likely to reject violence"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/08/03/po...

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Aug 3, 2011, at 2:04 PM

Huffington Post Forced to Issue Retraction

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/201...

Some staffers at the website, who were unable to reveal their names for fear of retribution, told FOX411 that they weren't surprised at the error.

"The goal of the site is aggregation, not news generation. We're chasing traffic and there isn't always time to make sure that everything is accurate," one staffer admitted. "We're really just a factory for links."

AOL bought the Huffington Post back in February for $315 million and placed Huffington Post founder Arianna Huffington in charge of the combined group's content. The new leadership resulted in the laying off of a network of seasoned journalists and the destruction of many of AOL's content sites, including the influential Politics Daily news site.

Politics Daily was to be "absorbed" into HuffPo Politics, but the merger instead resulted in the laying off of the site's political reporters, some of whom would have been in the White House briefing with O'Donnell and Carney.

"If the site still had actual reporters in Washington, they would have known that the tape wasn't doctored, but right now HuffPo is relying on other people's reporting," one former AOL political writer said. "Arianna doesn't believe in real reporting."

Breitbart celebrated his victory over the liberal website with a follow-up Tweet:

"Mr. Breitbart ACCEPTS @HuffPost apology/retraction for falsely claiming I 'doctored' video."

-- Posted by Gal66 on Wed, Aug 3, 2011, at 12:44 PM

rr3yvo,

By all means let's get GOD and the GOP to solve our problems? But then again where have they been up to now? They had it for 8 years and gave us a hell of alot of the problems we're in as well. I'm sure they'll do a wonderful job. What have they doen for you lately?

If your horse were any higher you would need oxygen. Maybe that explains it. Oxygen deprivation.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Aug 3, 2011, at 12:26 PM

Gal66 loved that article it seemed simple and to the point. I thought it interesting that the Democrats haven't proposed a budget in over 800 days and any of Obama's budgets were so bad even the Democrats couldn't vote for them. Interesting, very very interesting!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Aug 3, 2011, at 11:08 AM

Biden Backpedals From Tea Party 'Terrorists' Comment

http://www.christianpost.com/news/gop-te...

The Democrats are getting nasty but hey they had the power in the Senate to shut it down. If it is that bad why didn't they? If they are right wouldn't they be the hero? They could have presented their own plan with all the tax increases couldn't they?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Aug 3, 2011, at 10:56 AM

The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. government can't pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our government's reckless fiscal policies. ... Increasing America's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that 'the buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."

The words of a terrorist?

Read the story below to find out who said it'

Tea partiers not terrorists; they're realists

http://detnews.com/article/20110803/OPIN...

-- Posted by Gal66 on Wed, Aug 3, 2011, at 10:53 AM

Wtf do you really think that any news source that you agree with would report this if they can help it. Personally I hope it is false but if it is true the hypocrisy and media bias may be worse than we think.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Aug 3, 2011, at 10:27 AM

That's really funny coming from you wtf.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Aug 3, 2011, at 10:17 AM

rr3yvo,

The vice-president said nothing like that. When you post post links to Rush and the like you cannot and will not be taken seriously.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Aug 3, 2011, at 7:14 AM

Jonah Goldberg is tired of the vicious hypocrisy of these people

http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2011/08...

"Then last night. on the very day Gabby Giffords heroically returns to cast her first vote since that tragic attack six months ago, the Vice President of the United States calls the Republican Party a bunch of terrorists."

But does anyone care?

2 A wise man's heart directs him toward the right, but the foolish man's heart directs him toward the left. ---Ecclesiastes 10:2

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Aug 3, 2011, at 5:59 AM

Harry Reid Admits He's a Terrorist Hijacker of FAA Funding

http://www.redstate.com/dhorowitz3/2011/...

"FACT: Senate leaders have chosen to protect political pork and outrageous subsidies of nearly $4,000 per ticket on the backs of 4,000 furloughed FAA employees."

So much for being about job creation.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Aug 3, 2011, at 5:47 AM

Where's the Civility? The Vice President Calls Us "Terrorists"

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/s...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Aug 3, 2011, at 5:35 AM

On a side note...

Over the last 3 days I have been building some shelves for my wife. She wants them in the kitchen.

They went well. They are built of light pine, squared nicely, side rails to prevent spillage, ect. I finished the last of spray painting today.

I prefer to spray paint outside whenever possible for obvious reasons, but it hit me today just how nice it was to be able to work outside and enjoy the warm, comfortable 75 degree, sunshiny weather.

It was a nice day.

The wind gently blew through the overlooking light green gum trees, and storks were flocking under the tops of the palm trees feasting on seeds. Everything was green and golden sunshine.

...and that is our Winter here in Oz...

Just another reason I love living in Australia!!

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Aug 3, 2011, at 2:29 AM

What if at the turn of the twenty first century we had declared a new dawn. What if the federal government had hired all the young people of our nation who wanted a better job, who wanted a chance at a college education they could not afford, who wanted good health insurance, who wanted technical training, and what if the federal government did not exclude those who were highschool drop outs, or had minor criminal records? What if we had given the nation's youth all those things, including the promise of free further education when their work contract was fulfilled?

What if at the turn of the twenty first century we had trained them, and then deployed them to rebuild America. Deployed them to teach, and assist in teaching, to create art, music, and to build roads, parks, buildings, windmills, and solar panels. Deployed them to build hospitals, and to staff hospitals, and a myriad of other fulfilling, rewarding things.

Well we got half way there. We did hire all those youth with their declared desires. We gave them what they asked. We gave them free medical care, paid them as they trained for new jobs, promised them money for college, and other socialist frills.

Then we sent them all to war.

Can you imagine how much better this country would be today if we had not left the job half done?

No one complains when socialism is utilized as a tool to wage war. Most complain when socialism is utilized as a tool to build instead of blow up, when used to make instead of break. What is wrong with us?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Aug 3, 2011, at 12:56 AM

More on tar baby. http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pp...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Aug 2, 2011, at 11:55 PM

We are going down, down, down. We can not move out of the trap we have set with the economic model that we pursue, by neglecting governmental stimulus during depression. It can not be done.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Aug 2, 2011, at 11:35 PM

I wouldn't say precisely that he called Obama a"tar baby".

Here is the quote. "Now I don't even want to have to be associated with [Obama], it's like touching a tar baby and you're stuck, you're part of the problem now. You can't get away."

I believe the fair connotation of his remark is that as a conservative Republican he should not get involved with Obama's programs because once started on that path he would be tainted by the doctrines involved.

Nevertheless he remains an insensitive ignoramus, many of whom are racist. Firstly he should have known that prominent members of his party have suffered the same criticism for the same gaffe. Secondly he should have known that though the original meaning of tar baby dealt with tactics, not race, the connotation has morphed today into a percieved slur.

The context was in regard to involvement with Obama, not what Obama is.

It would have been a somewhat similar situation had he said I don't even want to be associated with Obama because it is queer, then someone taking it to mean that he called Obama a queer.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Aug 2, 2011, at 11:30 PM

Thanks UpseDaisy. Good to hear from you.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Aug 2, 2011, at 10:49 PM

Repub Rep. Doug Lamborn calls Obama a "tar baby"

That's where we're at folks. That's the mindset of alot of our so called "leaders". It should now be painfully obvious that those on the far right will do and say anything to undermine this president regardless of the effect on our country and it's citizens.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Aug 2, 2011, at 10:30 PM

Putting a human face on the "debt ceiling". From The New Yorker 25 July www.newyorker.com/talk/comment/2011/07/2....

According to official records there are 14.1 million "faces", unofficially many, many more.

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Tue, Aug 2, 2011, at 9:29 PM

NanaDot

While reading your comment a scarry bit of reality hit me:

The Teaparty wants to have one of its own with their finger on the big button.

"...fundamentalist Christians in the White House...fundamentalist Christians who believe the Bible is the exact word of God,...including that wacky fire and brimstone, Revolations ending,...with their finger on the button...

[Bill Hick's eyes rolling to the back of his head and his hand above an imaginary nuclear button] Tell me when oh Lord...tell me when. Let me be your servant."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq4Srd0P2...

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Aug 2, 2011, at 8:53 PM

"Debt downgrade still possible despite deal"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43987798/ns/...

Actually, economicaly, this is now the least of our worries.

Save your pennies folks...hard times are a comin'.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Aug 2, 2011, at 5:51 PM

Its hard to understand NanDot how we could go from the World's Greatest Nation to the World's most pathetic joke in just 11 short years.

...and what the heck happened with Obama?

I liked the pre-election Obama much better than the President Obama -- 2 completely different people with 2 completely different opinions on the direction our Nation should be going.

The worst part ND is what this will do to the American economy. These criminals in Washington completely ignored the advice of the overwhelming majority of economists and went with their gut instead. Interstingly enough, its the gut of the American People that will be hurting soon...from hunger.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Aug 2, 2011, at 5:19 PM

SHOCKING!!!

America allowed itself to be held hostage by a small minority of ultra-right wing Republicans.

Its not so shocking these scumbags would take the American People hostage, but the fact that the American People took that lying down is even more shocking.

I guess America deserves what it will be getting...courtesy of the Teaparty Repubblicans.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Aug 2, 2011, at 4:41 PM

Looks like the American people may be strongly considering firing everyone in Congress that is up for review in 2012.

First post agreement poll:

"The approval ratings for Congress on the survey hit a new low of just 14 percent, a 12-point fall since January, when 26 percent approved the way Congress handles its job."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/02...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Aug 2, 2011, at 4:22 PM

Barney Frank voted no. Here is why: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Aug 1, 2011, at 10:24 PM

We will see ND. Medicare cuts to provider payments will make worse an extant problem. More providers will simply refuse to take Medicare dependent patients.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Aug 1, 2011, at 7:28 PM

I suppose that the only way to put a positive spin on this situation is to consider it not an end of things, but instead the moment of a new dawn, shedding first light on a new beginning.

If this onerous new contract against the American people holds it will be a metaphorical equivalent to the burning of the Reichstag. If it holds, Congress as intended to be, will instead be ashes, overlayed by the stench of all that transpired.

I say a new beginning because, quoting John Steinbeck's character Tom Joad, " It don't take no nerve to do somepin when there ain't nothin else you can do".

It appears only great tragedy can arouse the American people from their somnolence. Clinging to our ever more shredded security blanket we sleep on. This may, as does any nightmare, awaken us with a start, a shiver, and finally the realization, that the emperor has no clothes, nor do we.

They have at last gone too far. Millions of people with nothing left, stripped even of their very dignity, may begin to do what must be done.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Aug 1, 2011, at 11:25 AM

In the middle of the long wrangle over the debt ceiling, we have several things sneaking through that mean more unneeded problems for farmers and others in rural area. At least we can watch Congress. It's the regulatory sneaky stuff that's a worry.

Of course, there's the story Gorrell wrote about the sweet deal Lightsquared got to provide broadband on FCC regulated frequencies that will likely interfere with GPS. "Comment" period was extremely short.

There's the U.S. Department of Transportation wanting to require CDL's on farm trucks and trailers. If you crop share and haul to a local elevator, you're doing interstate commerce, they say, so get a CDL. Or if you're hauling a load of calves to the sale barn, get a CDL. Comment period was extended 2 days, ends today.

Despite Congress voting down federal regulation of farm ponds, etc., it's now sneaking through. The EPA and Corps. of Engineers will be in charge of water, water everywhere. We've seen what a great job the Corps did with saving mountain snow melt this year. It's not like we have a state department of natural resources of conservation department. We need federal regulation of rural details?

Additional complexity adds costs, introduces inefficiencies, and - I suppose leads to job creation at the federal level.

Bureaucracy grows itself in a shrinking economy.

-- Posted by former editor on Mon, Aug 1, 2011, at 6:31 AM

Next on the ruling Teaparty agenda:

1.) Repeal 14th Ammendment

2.) Repeal 13th Ammendment

It does not take a rocket scientist to know what their agenda calls for after number 2.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Aug 1, 2011, at 4:18 AM

So begins the Teaparty Dictatorship in America.

You will now do exactly as the Teaparty tells you.

They are the boss now.

Good luck with that America!

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Aug 1, 2011, at 4:11 AM

Oklahoma Reader

I believe today marked a turning-point for America...and not a good one.

The Democrat capitulation to the Ultra-right wing minority in the Republican Party means an end to life in America as we have known it.

The future for most Americans is now fixed.

Widespread poverty, disease, starvation of the poor, elimination of most of the middle-class lie down the road the Teapartiers have chosen for you, me...and themselves.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Aug 1, 2011, at 3:23 AM

NanDot...

Definately mate.

I know you know the subject well.

I agreed with you 100%. I just wanted to emphasize my point for some of the doubters.

I think we are lucky we can now look at chromosomal structures and confirm an already well supported scientific model.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Aug 1, 2011, at 3:17 AM

Obama goes against every thing he has learned, and believes about economics, and societal needs, shedding his principles faster than he shucked Reverend Wright.

What principle will this man fight for other than that he deserves a second term in office?

Scary thought, especially because it may be true. Could it be that the President of the United States is now no more than an administrative officer, answering to a corporate board? Should we no longer consider ourselves as citizens of a federalist republic, but instead as minor stock holders in the world's showcase corporate holding?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jul 31, 2011, at 11:37 PM

Debt deal struck, appears to be all take away from the common people, and nothing from the rich. Obama having all ready handed his privates to the so called conservatives, had nothing left to give, but the arses of ordinary Americans. The deal appears to be more capitulation than compromise. Economists say wrong, wrong, wrong!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43949638/ns/...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jul 31, 2011, at 11:07 PM

"Science/Tech

Bernie Sanders calls on Obama to use 14th Amendment to raise debt ceiling"

http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/0...

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jul 31, 2011, at 5:35 PM

NanaDot

Yes it may go back very far.

The important thing is this.

Only one scientific model accounts for the fact that our 2nd pair of chromosomes are the fused 14th and 15th chromosome pairs of the Chimpanzee and that is the evolutionary model. In fact, the evolutionary model predicts we would find this genetic variation -- which is even further evidence on top ot the mountain of evidence that already supports the evolutionary model.

This fact leads to no other conclusion but that we share a common ancestor with the Chimpanzee and other apes.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jul 31, 2011, at 4:43 PM

"10 signs the double-dip recession has begun:

'Many Americans believe that the 2008-2009 downturn never ended'"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43946055/ns/...

"Krugman: 'Proposed debt deal will cost jobs and revenue'"

http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/0...

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jul 31, 2011, at 4:37 PM

Opps..Typot alert.

In my previous comment I meant to say,...

"...and that can mean only one thing -- we share a common ancester with the chimpanzee."

Sorry for any confusion my typo may have caused lol.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jul 31, 2011, at 2:59 AM

RR

I just looked in the religion speakout at your non-answer to my question.

But its ok to say you don't know the answer -- and I would hope you wonder why the model you support cannot answer the question nor does it predict these 2 fused chromosome pairs would appear anyplace in our genetic make up.

But the fact is they do.

...and that can mean only one thing -- we share a common answer with the chimpanzee.

So what model does explain that and what model does predict it?

Answer: the evolutionary model. Its just one more piece of evidence that attests to the accuracy of the model.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jul 31, 2011, at 1:27 AM

RR,

Please, you failed to address my question.

Why was it ok for the Republican Party to raise the debt ceiling multiple times under Bush but not Ok when a Democrat President needs to do it to keep our Government functioning?

As to the other question, it is not a religious question. It is a science question. Our 2nd pair of chromosomes -- all humans -- is the fused pair of the 14th and 15th chromosomes of the chimapnzee. Thgat is a fact. It is exactly what the evolutionary model predicts and is explained fully by that model.

How does the creationist/intelligent design model explain this and is it what the model predicts?

Its a science question mate -- not a religious quesstion.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jul 31, 2011, at 1:21 AM

Mr. X-ray, and rr3 as our only conservative posters on this blog (thank you for being here) please read the following link, one initially provided by ND, and see if you can refute it.

I expect that if you accept the challenge you will attempt to refute it, as opposed to agreeing with it, but perhaps I am wrong.

The reason I am asking your assistance is because it is hard for me to believe, that anyone who reads at the link, who follows our nation's workings with acuity, would have any response excepting, "but of course" concerning the content. I expect that, should you choose to respond, it perhaps will allow me to better understand the conservative mind. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/20...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jul 31, 2011, at 1:11 AM

rr3yv0

He did.

Its just been delayed as it appears the Republicans may be working on a deal with him.

Now, I have answered your question. You may not like it. You may not agree. Never-the-less, you have been answered.

"Reid delays Senate vote to give debt negotiators more time:

Senate Democratic leader sees a 'move toward cooperation and compromise' as struggle continues"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43949638/ns/...

Now would you be so kind as to address the questions I have submitted to you in my prior comment before you ask me anything further.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jul 31, 2011, at 1:07 AM

Obama thought it was a bad thing under Bush this is nothing new in the political fray news. I mean I wish I could raise my debt ceiling so I could spend more money but as an economist maybe you can explain why it is good.

I will go to the religious forum for the other.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Jul 30, 2011, at 10:51 PM

No news how come Harry Reid didn't bring his own bill to the floor of the Senate to vote? Please pay attention.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Jul 30, 2011, at 10:48 PM

RR..

So now that I have answered your question maybe its time you start answering my questions.

1.) How does your creationist model explain the fact that the human 2nd pair of chromosomes are in fact the fused 14th and 15th chromosome pairs of the chimapanze?

The evolutionary model explains it perfectly and is exactly what the model would predict.

So how does the creationist model explain it and are the fused 14th and 15th chromosome pairs of the chimapanzee correlating 100% with the the 2nd chromosome pairs in humans what the creationist model predicts?

2.) Why did the Republicans in the House of Represntatives argue so passionately for INCREASING the debt limit under Bush -- multiple times -- and yet NOW the Republicans say its a bad thing? Explain that please.

I await your answers.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Jul 30, 2011, at 9:06 PM

rr3yv0

Because the Republican plan is unacceptable to the American People.

...and rightly so. The Republican plan is a recipe for economic disaster.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Jul 30, 2011, at 8:51 PM

News how come Harry Reid didn't want to bring his bill for a vote in the Senate. He was made the offer.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Jul 30, 2011, at 6:56 PM

"Watch House Republicans defend raising debt ceiling in Bush era"

http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/0...

Its fun watching the fascist Republican Party crash and burn but let's not forget just how passionately the Republicans argued for INCREASING the debt ceiling under Bush.

The fact is the Republicans want to shut down our Government for nothing more than political reasons. They thought it would make Obama's chances for re-election impossible -- now its backfiring on them and the ones most likely not to be re-elected are the Republicans.

What a bunch of clowns!!

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Jul 30, 2011, at 5:53 PM

NanaDot's main page link to the article clarifying the difference between debt ceiling and default was highly informative:

http://www.alternet.org/story/151827/the...

It also discussed the rating companies' (S&P, Moodys) role in the financial crisis, rating mortgage bonds sold to pension funds among other investors even though they were junk. Some junk was produced here, absurd loan underwriting. If a youngster got a home loan, he thought that meant the mortgage originator was confident he could make the payments. But that wasn't the game they were playing.

-- Posted by former editor on Sat, Jul 30, 2011, at 1:56 PM

There used to be laws against that WTF.

It is the fourth quarter, Corps 40 People 0.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Jul 30, 2011, at 12:25 PM

Also, how does a guy like Rupert Murdoch manage to own so many media outlets? Controlling the flow if information to masses is power in it's most pure form. Granted, he didn't manage to keep a lid on the whole phone hacking thing. The question is will anything of consequesnce really happen to them.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Jul 30, 2011, at 12:21 PM

If our Laws don't cover what the Koch brothers are doing ,and other big Money,it should be taken care of now! And what about to big to fail? When will that splitting up take place! If anyone thinks it will with out some bad things happening.I think your dreaming! They are so close too total control of us,it's scarry! We could be looking out our Windows thinking, when will they come for me! I'm sure the Jews felt that same feeling!

-- Posted by Jo on Fri, Jul 29, 2011, at 10:50 PM

Yeah the guy does ND, which means nobody in government is going to be heeding him. Aaaaaargh!

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Jul 29, 2011, at 10:32 PM

Please read Marcia Gorrell's story at this link http://www.marshallnews.com/story/174847... for just another example of corporations running over farmers, taxpayers, travelers, and even the FAA. Don't forget to read the links she has added below her commentary.

I haven't had the opportunity to check it, but I bet the Republican Party is in it with them hand in glove, h*ll maybe the Democrats too.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Jul 29, 2011, at 10:26 PM

No rr3 the real story is The Corporatocracy Takes Aim on Rural America

The Corporatocracy's ultimate goal is to assure that they have ultimate control of every square inch of land, every business activity, the curriculum in every school, and, ultimately, the information that may be conveyed on the public airways.

It's high time to recognize the Corporatocracy's blatant disregard for the Constitution, and cleanse our country of all who allow either Congress or the Administration to embrace the fascist policies recommended by the Koch Brothers, and aped by the Tea Party.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Jul 29, 2011, at 10:09 PM

You can say what you want about our government never achieving anything. There is one thing they are always successful at. Achieving the debt ceiling , I think they have hit it every time it has been raised. I guess we should call it a target and Obama has hit it 3 times already. I am proud to know that our politicians in Washington are good for something.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Jul 29, 2011, at 7:40 PM

White House Council Takes Aim on Rural America

"Obama's ultimate goal is to assure that government has ultimate control of every square inch of land, every business activity, the curriculum in every school, and, ultimately, the information that may be conveyed on the public airways."

"It's high time to recognize the Administration's blatant disregard for the Constitution, and cleanse Washington of all who allow either Congress or the Administration to embrace the socialist policies recommended by the United Nations."

http://www.rightsidenews.com/20110703139...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Jul 29, 2011, at 7:34 PM

Nanadot, I think your Post on July,27 was right on! I think this Government would do well with the way i was raised! Honesty,with a hand shake,and confrontational if necessary! What i mean, is if one tells lies, break out the white gloves,with a slap across the face of your opponent,then the best Man wins! I don't think any one of our Politicians would lie about one another,or to us! If that were the case! I really do think our Rep.are getting to that Point,that Violent protest is all they will understand,we just haven't made that clear yet! Common sense isn't used much anymore.You can always interpret things different,regardless what it is,but Common Sense should prevail,and it doesn't anymore!

-- Posted by Jo on Fri, Jul 29, 2011, at 3:53 PM

News why does God have to have chromosomes?

Watch out or your cronies will be hollerin' that we are gettin' too religious over here.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Jul 29, 2011, at 1:12 PM

Char Broil, Good piece of meat you put on the grill.

Please do send it to all your federal representatives. It is the sort of well written expression of the ire of the American people that may get the attention of one, or more.

If nothing else they do note the frequency of various categories of e mail they recieve, sort of a backward poll. That is why, and how the people's voice is heard. We are all numbers in this information technology age. Let's all unite as a good number, and tell em to enjoy this term, because unless they change it is their last!

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Jul 29, 2011, at 12:33 PM

Okay, I am tired of this partisan stuff. And I am tired of the Republicans blaming the Democrats. How short is their memory. We had a huge deficit after Reagan and Bush1, then Clinton came in and our deficit was almost gone (relatively). Then in comes the Shrub and look out here comes the biggest deficit ever. Yes, we were bombed on 9-11, but instead of concentrating on the one war in Afghanistan, the Shrub somehow convinced a nation to get us into a war in Iraq. Now 9 years later we are still in both places. So now we are blaming Obama?? I am not a Democrat and didn't even vote for Obama, but I don't rewrite history or the facts. Bush had us in so much trouble at the end of his 8 years, there were no good solutions. Now the we need Congress to quit the partisan stuff and just compromise. We need to cut everything some, cut out all the waste, and make sure wealthy americans pay their fair share.

I am a moderate, you know the ones that actually swing the elections every two years. When is someone going to represent us and find some commonsense and some middle ground. This is ridiculous. Enough already. When are the politicians going to look out for their country instead of their precious parties?

-- Posted by Char-broil on Thu, Jul 28, 2011, at 7:46 PM

RR

Does God have the fused 14th and 15th chromosomes pair of the chimpanze as his 2nd chromosome pair?

You do. So do I. So do all humans -- including Jesus.

How do you explain that?

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jul 28, 2011, at 4:12 PM

rr3yv0

The only thing I am biased against are bad ideas and the bad policies that come from those bad ideas.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jul 28, 2011, at 4:08 PM

News you assume a lot of things like who says you have to be aligned with a political party to be biased? If you are aligned with independents wouldn't you have an independent bias? I think you have a liberal bias and I have a conservative bias but that is just my opinion not peer-reviewed scientific evidence.

They want you to believe there is overwhelming evidence that we evolve from monkeys. They want you to believe that so you will deny God otherwise they would be wrong. We all are made in God's image so your peer-reviewed scientific evidence is wrong.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jul 28, 2011, at 2:31 PM

rr3yv0

Actually we evolved from an ape-like creature. We are a type of ape...a very smart one, but a type of ape all the same.

While monkeys and apes are both primates, they are very different branches of the broader family.

That is what the peer-reviewed, scientific evidence overwhelmingly proves without a shadow of a doubt.

To believe anything less is pure folly and requires one ignore the mountain of physical evidence that confirms our evolution.

and I might add, to call the other guy "biased" when between you and him, you are the only one who is aligned with a political party and he is independent, is also pure folly not supported by the obvious facts. I am not in anyway aligned with any political party. I am a true independent -- unlike so many I know who claim to be independents then vote straight Republican ticket in every election.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jul 28, 2011, at 1:36 AM

The Myth of the Clinton Surplus

http://www.craigsteiner.us/articles/16

"The growing deficits started in the year of the last Clinton budget, not in the first year of the Bush administration."

So why did the Dems make this claim? "it has to do with Washington doublespeak and political smoke and mirrors."

"The government just covered its deficit by borrowing money from Social Security rather than the public."

I mean seriously Nana you want to stand on that argument that is about as good a someone saying they are not biased. And if you believe all of that then maybe we did evolve from monkeys.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jul 27, 2011, at 10:12 PM

It didn't go toward the deficit Nana because it didn't exist don't you get it?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jul 27, 2011, at 9:58 PM

OOps

Sorry about all the typos in my last comment -- I wrote it straight out of bed this morning...lol. Still its readable.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Jul 27, 2011, at 7:16 PM

mrxray

In regard to your comment,

I have no party affiliation -- no bias.

I am not a Republican, and I do not support or vote for Republican candidates for any office.

I am not a Democrat, and I do not support or vote for Democrat candidates for any office.

I do not support any Democrate policies.

I do not support any of Obama's policies.

I do not support any Reublican policies.

I do not support the Democrat Budget proposals.

I do not support the Republican Budget proposals.

Nor do I think either have any chance at all of doing our economy any good, and in fact I believe both those approaches -- which are really for all intents and purposes the same policies -- will result in a severely tightened money supply, extremly tight liquidity, severely reduced consumption, and a return to a spiraling deflationary period accompanied by long-term, consistantly increasing unemployment and massive layoffs by private sector employers becoming the norm over the next 2 years...minimum.

If I have any bias at all x-ray -- whatever that means -- its that I an biased against both the Republicans' and the Democrats' proposals for the budget neither of which has any potential of solving any problems and will ultimately cause far more problems than their mutual proposals will solve.

I have no bias mate.

I think both major parties are wrong, wrong, wrong.

However, what is worse than either plan of either party is the Republican House Majority which is fully willing to cut (and ultimately elimate etirely) our parents' and grandparents' Medicare and Social Security...and our childrens' future as well.

And worse...the Republicans have made it clear that they are more willing to shut down our government if they don't get their way.

So if you mean I don't like either major party's plans when you call me "biased," then you are absolutly correct.

The fact is x-ray, I am personally already financially independent. I want my Social Security when I reach retirement age, yes, because I paid into it -- that was the agreement between Uncle Sam and me. However, I can continue to live my middle class lifestyle for the rest of my life quite well without it. And while the sinking American economy will affect many people I love, its unlikely to have much effect on the boom economy of Australia which is in its 10th year of unprecidented economic growth. So I really don't have any personal bias other than the fact that I think both parties are dead wrong mate.

Good luck with that coming Government shutdow.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Jul 27, 2011, at 6:14 PM

Hey rr3!

Then their is the other side of the coin.

What do you get when you offer a conservative a penny for his thoughts? He takes your penny, and says I'll get back to you.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jul 27, 2011, at 1:35 PM

X-ray you said; "HA HA HA ....

This is for you liberal whiners....

I just heard on KMBC that if you want to utilize a "Cooling Center" then you have to bring a Photo ID. YET you dont have to have one to Vote?????

LOL SO the excuse that seniors and poor cant afford or get to a location to get a photo ID, therefore they should be exempt from having a photo ID to vote applies for voting but NOT to life saving cooling centers.... LOL LOL LOL

I love IRONY"

I too love irony x-ray. An even greater irony is that you heard on the radio that one needed an I. D. to enter a cooling center, and your take away was that if folks need an I. D. to go to a cooling center, then it would be a lesser infringment to have to produce a photo I. D. to vote.

Most would have focused on why people can't get into a cooling center, many would have thought it an outrage, certainly if what you related was all that you heard on the subject.

I find it bitterly ironic that you expressed no concern for those who could not get in, and instead you mind was drawn to voter I.D. issues, endorsing by innuendo denial of rights for both groups.

Additionally, your usage of false equivalency in your rhetorical argument is laughable, or should I just say LOL, as you are wont to do.

Perhaps, I should have responded to your comment with a terse "two wrongs, don't make a right", after all that is at the heart of it.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jul 27, 2011, at 1:15 PM

(whisper) Hey Nana we really didn't have a surplus.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jul 27, 2011, at 6:44 AM

Now for something really funny.

What do you get when you offer a liberal a penny for their thoughts?

Change!!!!!!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jul 27, 2011, at 6:42 AM

xray,

On one hand you say it's sad that we believe the class warfare "propaganda" and blame the rich for our problems. On the other hand you say the rich have run over us and we have allowed them to feel comfort in their corruption and egotistical delusions of grandeur.

The fact that they have purchased our governemt and it's laws sounds like the very definiton of class warfare to me.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Jul 27, 2011, at 6:17 AM

Gal66.. I agree with you, BOTH parties are equally corrupt, equally only out for their own selves and to attempt to get their party elected instead of being interested in long term solutions to our REAL problems...

It is sad to see so many fall into the whole class warfare propaganda where they blame the rich for all of our problems when in fact is the apathy of our VOTING citizens and common folk, who WAY out number the rich, and allowing them to run over us and for allowing them to feel comfort in their corruption and egotistical delusions of grandeur.

We should almost NEVER elect people to office who WANT and desire to be in office, especially those who are willing to spend millions and billions to get elected...

Do away with the concept that a dollar equals a vote....

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Jul 27, 2011, at 5:20 AM

News... again.. your logic is FAILED. Just because the source might not meet "Your" ideals you attempt to discredit the info based on YOUR Bias. You fail to actually discredit the actual information....

AGAIN.... a "real" leader, like Obama pretends to be in his teleprompter speeches, would have a plan in writing, on paper, in black and white, for public consumption ESPECIALLY when the two parties in the House are not currently able to work the budget out..... that is EXACTLY what a leader and a President of our nation should do... YET neither Obama, NOR the Dems have a budget plan in writing with any sort of specifics required to enable a debate....all the Dems can say is NO NO NO to the budget plan that has been laid out.... LOL

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Jul 27, 2011, at 5:16 AM

LOL The whole BAD propaganda that News is spewing about the conservatives wanting starve grandma and prevent them from having a retirement is so factually inaccurate I am really surprised that you would lower your self to repeating it NEWS... ok, I am not surprised all you are is a parrot of the leftist hate tactics that you read on your biased blogs... LOL

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Jul 27, 2011, at 5:12 AM

HA HA HA ....

This is for you liberal whiners....

I just heard on KMBC that if you want to utilize a "Cooling Center" then you have to bring a Photo ID. YET you dont have to have one to Vote?????

LOL SO the excuse that seniors and poor cant afford or get to a location to get a photo ID, therefore they should be exempt from having a photo ID to vote applies for voting but NOT to life saving cooling centers.... LOL LOL LOL

I love IRONY

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Jul 27, 2011, at 5:10 AM

Thanks News. I was aware of it. but RR says it so...succinctly.

My dream administration would be Dennis Kucinich, President; Bernie Sanders, Secretary of State; ROBERT REICH, Secretary of Treasury; Paul Krugman, Chairman, Federal Reserve; Ron Paul, Secretary of Defense; Robert Kennedy, Jr., Secretary of Interior; Elizabeth Warren, Secretary of Energy, Elliot Spitzer, Attorney General; Ralph Nader, Secretary of Commerce, Joan Mahoney, Secretary of Education. Too tired to fill out the rest now.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jul 27, 2011, at 12:31 AM

News I really think your wrong when you say the party of no has to go.

I really think they all have to go!!!!!!

-- Posted by Gal66 on Tue, Jul 26, 2011, at 11:10 AM

How the hell do you all expect the people we elect to act any differently that we do here on this blog?

We are all so hard headed that we can not see that the other side has some good ideas!

As the father of a disabled child I do not want to see any cuts in what little help that we do get (we have just started getting some help for our daughter after doing it on our own)

But I know the system is in need of some work and if we have to deal with some cuts we will, I would hate to guess just how many people in the country are on disability that have no real reason to be on it.

There could be a lot of savings in the government spending if they would just cut out the waste and do away with the pet projects of the elected members of congress!

We need tax reform in the worst way everyone needs to pay taxes at the same rate and no one or any company should get by with out paying period!

I will not vote for anybody that votes to cut social security benefits at all!

We the voters of this country had better get our heads out of the sand and force our elected members of congress to do what is best for this country as a whole not just what their side of the isle thinks is best for the country!!!!!

-- Posted by Gal66 on Tue, Jul 26, 2011, at 11:08 AM

RR,

It may surprise you to learn that during WW2 (and after WW2) we had a much higher debt than we have now in terms of real dollars.

It didn't kill us.

It also may interest you to learn that in 1929 -- at the time of the Great Depression -- we had a surplus in the treasury.

Sure, we need a balanced budget and we need to reduce spending but we also need to be careful when, where, and how we do it. The Republican "Cut, Slice, and Dice" Plan does everything wrong, at the wrong time, and in the wrong way -- that is why the Senate opposed it bipartisanly.

What we need are jobs and we won't get those by laying off government employees from the largest employer in the the USA. We will get less tax revenues, decreased consumption, and a return to deflationary downward spiral.

This political arm of conservatists -- specifically the Teaparty affiliated Congressmen -- has got to go. The conservatists have clearly illustrated they do not care what happens to hard working Americans. Their only interest is cutting the taxes of the rich who finance their campaigns.

Its another reason that for the sake of our Nation and our children's future...

THE PARTY OF NO! HAS GOT TO GO!!

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jul 25, 2011, at 11:24 PM

See I told you.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Jul 25, 2011, at 11:12 PM

"House spending bill slashes environmental protections"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/07/25/ho...

THE PARTY OF NO! HAS GOT TO GO!!

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jul 25, 2011, at 11:06 PM

News and Nana someone has been lying to you guys!!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Jul 25, 2011, at 10:28 PM

News if you keep saying something long enough does become true?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Jul 25, 2011, at 10:25 PM

I paid into to Social Security and it is a financially sound retirement program.

I have every reason to expect and demand that I recieve the retirement fund return in the form of social security payments when I reach 62 (yes I am qualified for the early retirement at 62)...which is just around the bend.

That was the deal I signed onto.

I did my part. When I turn 62, I expect the United States Government to keep its part of the bargain.

However, the thing that tickles me most about the Social Security Program is that even after I die, my Australian wife will continue to receive my social security payments. Its a nice benefit and my wife looks foward to spending it all here in Australia...thank you very much! (lol)

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jul 25, 2011, at 9:28 PM

Nana D. your link to history of the Republican party, and how they reacted to raising the debt ceiling http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/05/2... when their guy was in the White House should be read by everyone who follows this blog. Oh the hypocrisy of the Republican Party, which, by the way should be a dead party by now considering their outrageous betrayal of the American people. Folks in this country may be slow to react, but what is left in me of optimism after seventy years hopes that they soon will get their long over...due.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Jul 25, 2011, at 8:05 PM

I pay into SSI as do most of you. We are financing SSI for our parents and we expect the next generation to do the same for us. When did SSI become an "entitlement"?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Jul 25, 2011, at 7:59 PM

NanaDot

Well said.

May I add that the conservative attempt in America to shut our Government down, starve our parents, our grandparents, and our disabled citizens is almost as much an act of conservative terrorism as the recent conservative terrorist attacks in Norway -- just a bit more subtle and a bit less bloody -- but just as hazardous to the health of our old folks in America.

Its becoming increasingly clear that conservativism is a dangerous threat to the well-being not only of our Nation but to all of the Western Industrialized World.

Its time We the People say NO! to conservative terrorism!!

Its time we send the dummies like Michelle Bachmann and Steve King packing.

We need rational minds running our Government, men and women capable of doing the right thing for the American People and capable of actually getting the work of the People completed -- on time, not conservative crazies who are bent on the destruction of our traditions, our democratic institutions, our American values, and the American way of life.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jul 25, 2011, at 6:37 PM

Phil,

We didn't elect those politicians in the House and Senate to give us excuses.

If they can't do the Job then We the Voters will fire them.

As an American citizen, I expect the politicians on both sides of the political aisle to obey the Constitution, do their duty as spelled out under the Constitution and send an Expenditure/Revenue Bill to the President. If he vetos it then I expect the House to do as the Constitution requires and reconsider the bill utilizing the President's objections. I am not alone. Millions of other voters also expect the House, lead by the Republicans, to do its job.

I am not interested in hearing how difficult the job is.

I am not interested in hearing how the possible political repercussions make the task difficult.

If the Republicans majority in the House either cannot or will not successfully pass a Bill to be sent to the President then they can reasonably expect to be hammered real, real hard in the coming election.

We the People will not tolerate the insano, partisan Republican party shutting down our Government.

Its that simple.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jul 25, 2011, at 5:43 PM

Phil and xray you make some very good points but some may never get it.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Jul 25, 2011, at 12:06 PM

News,

You are right, it is their constitutional duty today, just like it was before the last election. Prior to the last election, when the House, Senate, and President were all Democrats, why was there don budget passed and why aren't you complaining about that. Also, good or bad, they did pass a plan last week called something like cut, cap, and balance. It wasn't the Senate that rejected that. It takes BOTH parties for a compromise to work. In the House vote, some Democrats voted with the Republicans.

-- Posted by Philemon on Mon, Jul 25, 2011, at 7:38 AM

X-ray,

Your quoting an opinion piece by a paper founded by Sun Myung Moon and the Unification Church of South Korea. It is now owned by an offshoot of that church.

Ol' crazy Sun Moon has zero credibility as does his Church and the paper he founded and owned directly until 2010 -- then selling it to some of his followers.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jul 25, 2011, at 2:38 AM

News... we all know that info about the House being responsible for the budget... BUT when the parties are at an impass... then a real leader would lead. And the President is supposed to be a leader but we all know Obama is not...he has to be pushed and dragged along to make a decision... AND the Dems want to bash the Repubs by calling them the party of No, but because the Dems in the HOUSE are not putting up a budget of their own, nor a long term plan then does this not make the DEMS the party of NO? LOL

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Jul 25, 2011, at 2:27 AM

hey nanadot.... here is something you will love...

Another example of your favorite Union, SEIU, and how they use bad actions to attempt to intimidate boardrooms and employers along with the employees...

But as long as it puts money in the THUGS of SEIU and they elect Democrats that is all good right?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011...

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Jul 25, 2011, at 2:24 AM

rr3yv0

The responsibiity for passing a Bill for the annual National expenditures and revenues f the Government of the United States (aka "The Budget"), is ENTIRELY the responsibility of the House of Representatives.

This is a Constitutional mandate that is hard and fast.

Anything less is the House shirking its Constitutional duties -- the same Constitution they swore to uphold.

Clearly, our Founding Fathers felt this was one of the most important responsibilies of the House of Representatives -- and that is why you find it in Article I.

United States Constitution,

Section 7, Lines 1 and 2, respectively:

"All bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives..."

"Every Bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a Law, be presented to the President of the United States; If he approve he shall sign it, but if not he shall return it, with his Objections to that House in which it shall have originated, who shall enter the Objections at large on their Journal, and proceed to reconsider it..."

United States Constitution,

Section 8, Line1:

"The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States..."

For more on this please see:

United States Constitution, Online:

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html...

Presenting a budget to the President for his signature must begin in the House of Representatives. It is their responsibility...period.

So say our Founding Fathers

So says our Constitution

So say the People of the United States.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jul 24, 2011, at 11:55 PM

Let's see news I don't think Obama and the Democrats have come up with a budget since he took office.

FactChecking Obama's Budget Speech

"The president went too far in his critique of the House Republicans' deficit-reduction plan."

http://www.factcheck.org/2011/04/factche...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Jul 24, 2011, at 11:09 PM

rr3yv0

You say, "Again news you fail to address the real problem 'spending'. If we cannot control that we will always have a revenue problem."

The only folks who are failing in this matter is the House of Representatives which has a mandate from our Constitution to come up with a spending/revenue bill each and every year. In addition, they are required to raise the revenues necessary to keep our government operational.

So says the United States Constitution.

There is no excuse for violating the Constitution and no reason for the House of Representatives to shirk their duty as clearly spelled out under Artlce I, Sections 7, and 8.

But that is ok mate...We the People will deal with those Republicans in 2012...and it won't be pretty lol.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jul 24, 2011, at 5:13 PM

Far to the right, where most can see

strange fruit drops from a curious tree.

When it rots bad seeds soon set free.

Neath that tree is it fertile ground,

when the stench of death is all around?

May the fruit not drop near you, nor me.

Ted Kaczynski

Eric Robert Rudolph

Timothy McVeigh

Anders Breivik

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43873009/ns/...

'Where the Unabomber wrote, "One of the most widespread manifestations of the craziness of our world is leftism," Breivik's text puts "multi-culturalism" instead of leftism'

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jul 24, 2011, at 4:44 PM

Thanks for the links ND, especially the one on market fundamentalism. I haven't finished it yet because I am sandwiching it with my paper copy of the Sunday Times, but I shall.

It occurs to me that innocent, and naive are not only far from being synonyms, but depending on circumstance, may be antonyms. I wish all would read at the market fundamentalism link that you provided.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jul 24, 2011, at 1:38 PM

He who has the gold makes the rules.It's even worse now. I won't give a long list of obvious examples but keep in mind the recent supreme court decision to give corporations the same rights as individuals. The ultimate betrayel to the American worker. The deck is now completely stacked.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Jul 24, 2011, at 11:18 AM

Nana how can you see GM as a success when the average person cannot afford a new car. Also they are very overpriced. I will not finance their success except what is forced upon us by the hand of the government.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Jul 24, 2011, at 7:26 AM

Again news you fail to address the real problem 'spending'. If we cannot control that we will always have a revenue problem.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Jul 24, 2011, at 7:23 AM

It appears that the Norwegian killer holds fundamentalist Christian views, is anti-Muslim, conservative, and against multiculturalism.

It would be ridiculous, and unfair to suggest that he is typical of those who share his beliefs. Mass murderers are typical of no others in whatever belief set they are esconced.

It is fair, and perhaps enlightening to ponder, and discuss, why it is that more often than not in recent decades mass murderers belong to one fundamentalist sect, or another.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Jul 23, 2011, at 11:57 PM

Deputy police chief Roger Andresen declined to comment on the possible motive for the killings, but said: "We have no more information than ... what has been found on (his) own websites, which is that is goes toward the right (wing) and that it is, so to speak, Christian fundamentalist." http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43857267/ns/...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Jul 23, 2011, at 7:37 PM

Thankfully we don't have any one like that posting on the internet around here.

"Public broadcaster NRK and several other Norwegian media identified the suspected attacker as Anders Behring Breivik, a blond and blue-eyed Norwegian who expressed right-wing and anti-Muslim views on the Internet." http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/23...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Jul 23, 2011, at 7:05 PM

News I wish I could. I get the same error message. It may have something to do with the fact that I posted that message, and link back in January. That is so long ago that I don't recall how the link was associated with my post.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Jul 23, 2011, at 3:30 PM

You said, x-ray, "OKR and NEWS>>... so I guess what you people are celebrating is another LEFT WING WACKO sad chance to cast ALL people of different political opinions in the same light as these people who are allegedly responsible for the violence in Norway?"

And then you said, "this is how you all acted right after the AZ shooting and how you blamed right wing radicals and Sarah Palin for this mentally deformed individual's actions... this is getting boring"

So you say, "this is how you all acted"?

It is really laughable x-ray that you indulge in generalization to accuse us of generalization. ROTFLMAO

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Jul 23, 2011, at 10:48 AM

"lol OKR... you guys were the ones instantly jumping in and saying ALL conservatives are just like the alleged gunman in Norway... sheesh..

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jul 23, 2011, at 7:59 AM "

There you go again xray, dissembling. You just can't help it can you? It is ingrained in your persona. I don't see anywhere, where any one said all conservatives are just like the alleged gunman in Norway. You know what, neither did you. So why did you say that? Don't you know that you lose credibility each time you do it? At the least your credibility is strained in the minds of all, but those brainwashed by Limbaugh logic.

In the clutter you have made I still can't find where you have shared any opinion on the topic of the day, the Norwegian mass murderer. You do have one I assume. Just to be clear, I am asking you to get past your opinion of liberals, we have heard it all before, it is boring, and comment on the story.

dis·sem·ble /dɪˈsɛmbəl/ Show Spelled

[dih-sem-buhl] Show IPA

verb, -bled, -bling.

--verb (used with object)

1. to give a false or misleading appearance to; conceal the truth or real nature of: to dissemble one's incompetence in business.

2. to put on the appearance of; feign: to dissemble innocence.

3. Obsolete . to let pass unnoticed; ignore.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Jul 23, 2011, at 10:00 AM

Nanadot... here is another example of the government CAUSING our financial problems or at least adding to them with BAD policies.

Quotes from the article:

This is what they call a success?

"In the year leading up to the Chrysler and General Motors' bankruptcies, the auto industry lost 400,000 jobs. Since the bailout, about 113,000 of those jobs have been recovered."

Another success?

"That's because the government originally expected it would lose much more on the auto bailout. Initial estimates from the Congressional Budget Office in 2009, predicted the government would lose $40 billion on the overall auto bailout.

Now it estimates, by the time the $80 billion program is completely wrapped up, taxpayers will have lost $14 billion."

http://money.cnn.com/2011/07/21/autos/ch...

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jul 23, 2011, at 8:06 AM

lol OKR... you guys were the ones instantly jumping in and saying ALL conservatives are just like the alleged gunman in Norway... sheesh..

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jul 23, 2011, at 7:59 AM

OKR,

Could you repost that video link please. For some reason its giving an error message.

Mr.xray

Why did the conservatives in the House abandon their Constitutional duties as spelled out clearly in Article I, Sections 7 and 8, and Article VI, Line 1 of the Constitution of the United States???

Is this the kind of anti-constitutional behavior we can expect from this House of Representatives for the rest of this term?

You can bet on one thing mate, We the People will not stand for that kind of behavior. These Republicans will pay for their disrespect for our Constitution big time in 2012.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Jul 23, 2011, at 2:30 AM

mrxray

This fellow WU you mentioned, what was the date of his conviction again?

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Jul 23, 2011, at 2:09 AM

Here is what I mean about divert, and dissemble xray. Here is what I actually said about the Arizona shooting on this blog. It bears no semblance to what you stated that I said. You should man up, and apologize for accusing me of saying something that I did not even approach saying. But then that won't happen will it? Along with diversion, and dissembling, right wingers never admit they are wrong, and never apologize.

"I always grow weary with sadness when another tragedy such as this Arizona massacre, occurs. Today, as on all similar days I flashback to exactly where I was when I heard John Kennedy was killed. Dying along with Kennedy that day was my innocent idealism, and unbounded belief that we, all together, were going to make America a shining example to the world.

We, compelled by innate curiousity, begin to search for answers as soon as we hear the disheartening news. We may never get the complete answers that we frantically try to find in this, the immediate aftermath. Try we must, not only to assure that justice prevails, and that the full scope of the crime is revealed, but because we once again, must attempt to make sense of madness. There is some chance that justice may prevail, there is some chance that we will know all the details of the act, but there is no chance that we will ever make complete sense of the madness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdTOHVJWD...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 11:12 PM

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Jul 23, 2011, at 12:10 AM

Mrxray, up to your usual rightist maneuvers, divert and dissemble, I see. What say you about Norway? It has captured the attention of most this evening. Curiously, you are changing the subject. Repubs, and Dems do this stuff you are throwing up all the time, but wing nut massacres of this magnitude are deserving of at least one evenings attention.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Jul 22, 2011, at 11:48 PM

OKR and NEWS>>... so I guess what you people are celebrating is another LEFT WING WACKO sad chance to cast ALL people of different political opinions in the same light as these people who are allegedly responsible for the violence in Norway? yet again you guys prove that you simply do not have the confidence in your own individual believes or values as proven by the intellectually immature action such as this.... this is how you all acted right after the AZ shooting and how you blamed right wing radicals and Sarah Palin for this mentally deformed individual's actions... this is getting boring

-- Posted by mrxray on Fri, Jul 22, 2011, at 11:47 PM

as to SSI Efficiency... exactly how is forcing an employer to hire and pay people or accounting firms to collect a workers money (government confiscation of a workers hard earned money) and taking it away and sending it to the government where there are tons of overhead and waste and fraud and over and underpayments and other costs and then having that money placed into a trust fund where politicians of BOTH parties steal it to fund some other pet project and THEN once you reach retirement age you are handout out a minimal amount of money that most cannot live off of, an efficient system, or more efficient than allowing ME to take MY HARD EARNED MONEY and using it to fund my OWN retirement fund with a higher return where there are NO middle men nor government redtape and overhead?

-- Posted by mrxray on Fri, Jul 22, 2011, at 11:44 PM

Nanadot... if politicians from BOTH sides of the Aisle through the past several decades have not of raided the SSI trust fund to pay for government BIG spending the fund would have been in the neighborhood of 315 TRILLION DOLLARS right now......maybe the figure was higher but I did not save the article....

So exactly how is SSI NOT part of the government debt/deficit crisis?

-- Posted by mrxray on Fri, Jul 22, 2011, at 11:37 PM

For all those celebrating tonight, including the Aryan Brotherhood, Aryan Nations, Ku Klux Klan, Friends of New Germany, Supreme Order of Caucasians, and others of that ilk. A look at the dark side that fosters such evil.

Songs of celebration by a different kind of teenagers than those peacefully assembled on the Norwegian Island.

Skinhead Boy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKJA0kSPA...

Gone With The Breeze http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOL9I2PEJ...

The Stranger http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjh9YQHvg...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Jul 22, 2011, at 11:35 PM

Rep WU, a DEM Rep from Oregon just accused of an unwanted sexual incounter....

Hmmmm where are you liberal hypocrits?

-- Posted by mrxray on Fri, Jul 22, 2011, at 11:34 PM

OKR,

I took a look at the photo of the right-wing terrorist/crazy that killed those kids in Norway.

The BBC is reporting he is, without question, a right-wing extremist.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jul 22, 2011, at 10:41 PM

Over eighty dead at the island youth camp.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43854355/ns/...

What a fine looking Aryan is the perpetrator. http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/artik...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Jul 22, 2011, at 10:19 PM

rr3yv0

I am concerned with the Republican Majority in the House of Represntitives doing their job as required directly by Article I, Sections 7 and 8 and Article VI, Line 3 of the United States Constitution.

The Republican Party in the House of Reprentatives have failed to meet their Constitutional duties as required by our Constitution.

That is a fact.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jul 22, 2011, at 10:05 PM

RR,

Perhaps if we start seriously fining the filthy-rich fat-cats, like the Rockefellers, the Rothschilds, and the Koch brothers, when they hire undocumented workers we wouldn't have the problem at all.

If you want to kill the snake, you have to cut off the head first. Similarly, if you want to end unlawful migration, make it hurt the filthy-rich fat-cats who are causing the problem in the first place.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jul 22, 2011, at 9:59 PM

News do you really think the government don't have the revenue? They really have you snowballed. We have a spending problem in Washington not a revenue problem. I don't know news maybe you missed the last 3 years.

Bush Deficit vs. Obama Deficit in Pictures

http://blog.heritage.org/2009/03/24/bush...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Jul 22, 2011, at 9:55 PM

Yeh okr the Mexicans are not coming into the country because they can't find a JOB because of Obama. Of course AMERICAN'S can't find a job either.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Jul 22, 2011, at 9:48 PM

CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

ARTICLE I, SECTION 7,

"All bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives..."

ARTICLE I, SECTION 8,

"The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States..."

ARTICLE VI, LINE 3,

"The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution"

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html...

The Republican Majority in the House has failed in its Constitutional duty to the People to provide for the revenues required to run our Government.

The Republican Party has failed America...

...again.

In just a little over a year we will have the chance to sweep the House clean of these Republican scoundrals and get our Nation back on track.

Let's make sure we never forget how the Republican Majority shirked its Constitutional duties to the People of the United States and almost/did shut our Government down in 2011!

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jul 22, 2011, at 9:28 PM

Self described as single, Christian, and conservative, otherwise described as a right winger, another wing nut indulges himself via mass murder. He couldn't listen to Rush, nor Beck in Norway, could he have? I wonder who he was getting his "instructions" from?

I believe I am less uneasy about schizophrenics who hear a myriad of voices in their heads, than the fringe right who hear Rush talking in their heads. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43857267/ns/...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Jul 22, 2011, at 9:15 PM

Obama sets new record on kicking Mexicans out of the country. Why don't extreme right wingers love him for his actions even if they can't stand what he is?

He also hasn't touched their guns.He has dragged his feet on the equal rights for gays in the military, and other things dear to their shriveled little hearts.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/22...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Jul 22, 2011, at 5:33 PM

What she said. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Jul 22, 2011, at 12:58 PM

Jo I think there are not more rebels in this generation because the young people are not personally threatened by the atrocious acts of their government. Bring back the draft, and watchem start yellin he*l no, I won't go, and getting caught up in all the associated causes.

As an old Navy man you will get this one. No draft, stay aft.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Jul 22, 2011, at 12:02 AM

ND, so now the credit rating agencies are determining what our Congress, and President do? Or, are they just a smoke screen, giving cover for dastardly acts by both?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Jul 21, 2011, at 11:55 PM

Okla: I just called All the rep's i could ,for all the good it will do! I would give half of the last half of my life to see this Government changed,to a Socialized Government! I'm ****** that there isn't more Rebels in this Generation,like there was in the 60's! We need a 5 Million Man assault on Washington and be heard,so the Republicans can't say(We know what the People want)! The lying fools. I get sick of hearing it,and the Polls showing different! How do the People not see these lairs for what they are? Politicians are low life's,and it doesn't have to be that way!

-- Posted by Jo on Thu, Jul 21, 2011, at 10:19 PM

Some Of The Rich Ask For Higher Taxes

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jul 21, 2011, at 11:56 AM

For the wealthy, less in taxes is not always more

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...

"Of course, if millionaires really want to pay higher taxes, there's nothing stopping them. The Treasury Department Web site even accepts contributions by credit card to pay the public debt."

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jul 21, 2011, at 11:49 AM

Well I just wrote a long e mail to my hard shell Baptist Congressman pleading the case for leaving Medicare, and Social Security untouched. I figure that at the least has a chance of being more productive than any thing else I have written tonight. LOL

ND thanks for the youtube Bernie link. What a guy!

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Jul 21, 2011, at 12:00 AM

We're Still Waiting for Obama's Plan

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/s...

"And, of course, in a strict logical sense, what is the debt limit? All it is now is a political chaos opportunity for the Democrat Party. It's all it is. In 2006 Obama voted against raising it."

They want us to blame the evil rich so we won't see what they are doing. I know people are smarter then this if they would just do their homework. Don't believe everything you read or hear.

"Obama has offered nothing."

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jul 20, 2011, at 11:20 PM

How can you say that and believe it okr?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jul 20, 2011, at 11:05 PM

Then I will say it for you rr3, God help you.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jul 20, 2011, at 11:01 PM

No okr you just don't like your opinions to be questioned. Pretty simple really. I didn't even have to ask God for help.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jul 20, 2011, at 10:57 PM

rr3: "Don't like tough questions okr that's ok I know the answer anyway. Thanks."

You sir, on this blog, are the master of assumption. That is unless you feel you have absorbed the powers that prior to now you ascribed only to your god.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jul 20, 2011, at 10:43 PM

Wow Nana you hate the wealthy as much as the authors of your links. And you believe it. Wow!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jul 20, 2011, at 10:22 PM

Don't like tough questions okr that's ok I know the answer anyway. Thanks.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jul 20, 2011, at 10:04 PM

rr3 you have a real knack for twisting a person's comments way out of context. I can look at it as just plain nastiness, or stupidity, or your idea of fun. Whichever, your last two comments are not deserving of a response. Hence there will not be one.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jul 20, 2011, at 6:22 PM

Okr is there anyone in Congress that would not be considered 'rich' by your standards? If that is true then does it matter how they rank from richest to poorest? Would the richest of the rich be the most evil?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jul 20, 2011, at 1:20 PM

Okr is there a difference in prejudice towards a person's finance, color, nationality, or religious affiliation? Do you look at the rich as evil? Careful you are showing your true colors here.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jul 20, 2011, at 1:14 PM

Interesting link Gal 66, thanks for providing it.

I like to look at such things in detail. For instance though the entire Congress does have more Democrats than Republicans in its top twenty five richest, that is not true of the House of Representatives.

The House of Representatives is where every thing is stuck with no progress in sight. It is where populist matters are held captive. Twenty of the top twenty five richest in the House are Republicans.

What do you make of that?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jul 20, 2011, at 12:18 PM

rr3 you said, "Do I detect a prejudice against 'rich' people on here?"

You darn sure do from me rr3, SOME rich people, I make no bones about it.

For me the source of that prejudice is that I abhor greed, and the collecting, and holding of moneys for its own sake which measure that greed.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jul 20, 2011, at 12:05 PM

Inthe middle the first thing I want to say is that I enjoy your comments, and the perspective that they reflect.

I can't speak for everyone, but to me your last comment has merit. No doubt there would be many filled with glee if certain governments, or corporations were brought down, no matter the method, legal, or illegal. Though you didn't mention it, the same would be true if a left wing government were brought down. Think Venezuela.

I think that I personally would be a bit more nuanced in my response. For instance I can't imagine any circumstance wherein I would support the killing by drone aircraft of the leader, and key government officials of any country that we are not at war. Think Gadafi. There would be many who would cheer that action. Assassination? As a whole, not good.

For me, I am comfortable taking it on a case, by case basis.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jul 20, 2011, at 11:58 AM

Do I detect a prejudice against 'rich' people on here?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jul 20, 2011, at 11:47 AM

NanaDot take a look at this link http://www.opensecrets.org/pfds/overview...

Looks like to me more than half of the top 25 highest net worth in congress is on the democrat side.

So do the dem's really want to do away with the tax loop holes for the rich?

The problem as I see it is we the people keep putting fat cats in congress.

-- Posted by Gal66 on Wed, Jul 20, 2011, at 11:41 AM

OKR but what if motivated by greed,Murdoch's reporters spying on innocent people, had discovered information that would bring down a corporation, or right-wing government? That was my point. Too many people in America who are rightfuly outraged now, would instead be cheering it as a "courgeous act" or "necessary evil."

-- Posted by inthemiddle on Wed, Jul 20, 2011, at 9:42 AM

The U. S. economy 101 in plain english, with humor. http://truth-2-power.com/2011/07/12/u-s-...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Jul 19, 2011, at 2:49 PM

Nana what Christian laws being imposed on you do you disagree with?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Jul 19, 2011, at 12:08 PM

I meant exactly what I said rr3. If you can't fathom it that is your problem.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Jul 18, 2011, at 9:17 AM

Good argument okr I would have never thought of that!!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Jul 19, 2011, at 10:35 AM

OKR,

I'm with Jo, we need to break out some predator drones on Washington.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jul 19, 2011, at 2:26 AM

"The U. S. Love Affair With Drones"

"Americans have moved into postmorality. Right or wrong? Who cares?"

A hard read, or at least it should be for those who value The American Way as being a beacon of hope, an example of fairness, and justice for all. How far we have fallen.

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opi...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Jul 19, 2011, at 12:34 AM

The USA isn't going to do anything to Murdock! If they had of carried out some Prosecutions against Bush and his thugs,i might have some hope Justice could be done! There is no Justice in this Country for the big shots. Everyone's dreaming if you think so! Elisabeth Warren should have been fought for,but what happens ,he caves! He just don't have any guts! I think were done for. Use the Drones on Washington! I sick of all these criminal Pigs!

-- Posted by Jo on Mon, Jul 18, 2011, at 11:58 PM

I hope you younger ones who post here (if there are any)live to see justice done for the sake of all the folks who have "disappeared" during the Bush/Obama Administrations, and for the sake of all those children who have been killed in Pakistan, and elsewhere by our drones.

Nations that we are not at war with have had their children killed by our drones. Can you imagine how we would feel if ANY nation flew drones into the United States, and killed our children? Can you imagine how we would react? Has the government of our nation gone mad?

It took forty years for the outrageous moral crimes that occurred in Argentina to see the light of justice, overcoming an immunity granted to the perpetrators after the events. May those who have authorized, and committed these crimes be haunted to their dying day, be tried, and convicted along the way. http://www.truth-out.org/americas-disapp...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Jul 18, 2011, at 11:38 PM

It used to be called the Grand Old Party. Now it is reduced to this: http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/...

Which results in this: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-2...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Jul 18, 2011, at 11:07 PM

Yeah NA, news hacks, and news hackers, all in the same bundle. LOL

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Jul 18, 2011, at 10:43 PM

Hey, ya know what would make the exposure of Mudoch's and Fox New's crimes even more fun?

If they find out Bill O'Reilly and Hannity have both been actively involved in the phone hacking...lol.

Oh that would be heaven!!!

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jul 18, 2011, at 7:59 PM

OKR,

Lol...I never left mate.

I was just reading comments and not commenting for a change and learning new things in the process.

However, when I see folks consusing criminal acts by Murdoch owned news channels with investigative journalism, I have to speak out.

TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 47 > § 1030

§ 1030. Fraud and related activity in connection with computers:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/103...

TITLE 18 > CHAPTER 96--RACKETEER INFLUENCED AND CORRUPT ORGANIZATIONS:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc...

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jul 18, 2011, at 7:54 PM

Good to see you back News, and in fine fettle as usual I see.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Jul 18, 2011, at 6:26 PM

"Former Fox News producer claimed network's 'Brain Room' led to phone hacking"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/07/18/fo...

Responsible Journalists investigate and report news -- they don't break the law to do it.

We can look at Wiki leaks and see they printed news from documents that were given to them from an outside source -- the Government documents were downloaded to their site.

We can look at Fox News and see they printed news from information they personally stole in violation of the law.

Big difference.

Oh well, there goes that fair and balanced thing lol.

Folks its time we wake up to what the rich fat cats have been doing to us. Its time to put them in their place.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jul 18, 2011, at 6:04 PM

On other matters...

My wife and I finally went green...lol.

2 months ago we put up 12 huge solar panels on our roof.

So far it has cut our electric bill by almost 2/3...and its Winter here right now -- the part of the year with the shortest days.

We are most pleased we are able to save a lot of money off the cost of our energy use and make our World a safer, better place to be.

Its time the World community get off the fossil fuel drug and move into a clean, healthy, green approach -- the solar age.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jul 18, 2011, at 5:54 PM

mrxray

"Our liberty cannot be guarded but by the freedom of the press, nor that be limited without danger of losing it."

Thomas Jefferson to John Jay, 1786.

"The only security of all is in a free press. The force of public opinion cannot be resisted when permitted freely to be expressed. The agitation it produces must be submitted to. It is necessary, to keep the waters pure."

Thomas Jefferson to Lafayette, 1823. ME 15:491

"The functionaries of every government have propensities to command at will the liberty and property of their constituents. There is no safe deposit for these but with the people themselves, nor can they be safe with them without information. Where the press is free, and every man able to read, all is safe."

Thomas Jefferson to Charles Yancey, 1816. ME 14:384

http://www.famguardian.org/Subjects/Poli...

As you can see x-ray, we freedom/liberty lovers, true American patriots, are in good company.

Perhaps someday you will join us.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jul 18, 2011, at 5:34 PM

Meant KGB, not KGBD.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Jul 18, 2011, at 9:58 AM

You said, mrxray, "ahhh but you liberals LOVE wikileaks...."

No, we love transparency in our government so that we the people can make informed decisions. We regret that our government in its KGBD like secrecy, and the full compliance of a lap dog media, forces us to rely on sources such as Wikipedia to know what our government is actually doing.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Jul 18, 2011, at 9:55 AM

I meant exactly what I said rr3. If you can't fathom it that is your problem.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Jul 18, 2011, at 9:17 AM

anyone who is bashing murdoch, fox news.... two words... George Soros.... but you LOVE the millions he quietly spreads through our main stream media outlets and NPR and other entities to spread HIS ideals for America and he is not American.... you are so blind by your Bush hate syndrome that you cannot see the horrible corrupting influence that is George Soros.... lol sad

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Jul 18, 2011, at 6:26 AM

ahhh but you liberals LOVE wikileaks....

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Jul 18, 2011, at 6:23 AM

AFSCME: The Big Green Dog Behind Big Government & Higher Taxes

http://www.redstate.com/laborunionreport...

It's funny that most of these state and city governments that are in shambles financially have been under Democratic control for a long time. And some people still don't get it.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Jul 18, 2011, at 6:21 AM

And Nana you still refuse to see the Muslim threat. Their goal is sharia law, it starts in very small areas and spreads, just like Islam being spread by the sword. Of course your liberal news source won't tell you to think that way now will they?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Jul 18, 2011, at 5:54 AM

What do you mean okr?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Jul 18, 2011, at 5:45 AM

With you part way Inthemiddle. What Murdoch's organization has done is eavesdrop on innocent people motivated by greed. That is egregious from every perspective.

One has to be careful of hard, and fast rules. Motivation, method, and result, in my opinion must be considered, case by case.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jul 17, 2011, at 2:01 PM

What the Murdoch news did was wrong. However I wonder, how many of us would change our outrage if these invasions of privacy had been used to topple a corporation, a right-wing government, or to end some military action? How many of us would be justifying those violations of privacy? Sadly, I think many of us would be, especially those of us who are at this time, displaying the most moral outrage.

Wrong is wrong.

-- Posted by inthemiddle on Sun, Jul 17, 2011, at 12:06 PM

rr3 which do you enjoy most, testifying, or jacking with people? ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jul 17, 2011, at 10:35 AM

Does that mean he tried to convince you to be 'FOR' the invasion Nana? I didn't think you watched Fox News Nana.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Jul 17, 2011, at 8:52 AM

Completely wtf you leave out many details and speak in generalities.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Jul 17, 2011, at 7:36 AM

rr3yvo,

Which way did Murdoch slant his news? Are you serious?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Jul 17, 2011, at 6:41 AM

Funny, Jo. :)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Jul 16, 2011, at 1:45 PM

Murdoch is an UN-American scumbag that needs to be sent back to Australia,but that would be a helluva thing to do too Australia & News Across?

-- Posted by Jo on Sat, Jul 16, 2011, at 1:35 PM

Dennis Kucinich for President. Fighting every day for ninety eight percent of the people. Most of the rest fight every day for the other two percent. http://www.truth-out.org/debt-political-...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Jul 15, 2011, at 11:58 PM

So now the Republicans want to welsh on the debts owed to the American people? How low can they go.

Thanks for the link ND.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Jul 15, 2011, at 11:39 PM

Wtf which way did Murdoch slant the news? Why would you believe him on this when you wouldn't believe him on any thing else?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Jul 15, 2011, at 1:43 PM

Neither Nana just simply asking a question to see why anybody would make such a statement. Simple questions....simple answers-this is not a test.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Jul 15, 2011, at 1:30 PM

Why does it bother no one that Rupert Murdoch said on camera that he slanted his news for the invasion of Iraq? This guy single handedly controls most of the info we get in some way or another. He's like an arch-criminal right out of a batman comic book. We had the Joker, The Riddler, The Penguin, etc. What should Rupert Murdoch's arch-criminal name be? I submit "The Manipulator."

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Jul 15, 2011, at 12:16 PM

Nana, Nana why do you think conservatives hate Muslims? Do you actually know that or is that liberal media telling you that?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Jul 15, 2011, at 7:05 AM

Our Petulant Child President

http://www.redstate.com/streiff/2011/07/...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jul 14, 2011, at 7:06 AM

Who do we blame?

http://www.redstate.com/erick/2011/07/14...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jul 14, 2011, at 7:04 AM

You have a point okr but the way I see it is it will be the Republicans caving to the Dems that will lead us to disaster. Then the Dems will blame the Republicans and you will believe them just like now. No different.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jul 14, 2011, at 6:42 AM

rr3 Re: your "For starters:

BO:Before Obama

AO:After Obama"

That reminds me of the guy who went out, and drank a quart of whiskey, woke up the next morning with a heck of a headache,couldn't speak at all, drank a water and Alka Seltzer, then finally able to at least croak said, "darn that Alka Seltzer it gave me another headache".

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Jul 14, 2011, at 12:03 AM

"The problem isn't with elected Republicans; the problem is that the people want their treats. "

And the way things are going if the Republicans get their way the only time the people will ever get any treat will be a Halloween hand out by the Bogey Men Bankers, and the Hedge Hogs. That treat will just be an extension of trick, and really no treat at all.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jul 13, 2011, at 11:55 PM

One President Left Behind: McConnell Schools Obama on Debt

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?i...

"Democrats don't want to cut any government spending programs, not now, not ever."

"The problem isn't with elected Republicans; the problem is that the people want their treats. "

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jul 13, 2011, at 10:02 PM

Bush Deficit vs. Obama Deficit in Pictures

http://blog.heritage.org/2009/03/24/bush...

"Overall, President Obama's budget would add twice as much debt as President Bush over the same number of years."

Hey these numbers come from the Washington Post and include the cost of wars.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jul 13, 2011, at 9:53 PM

For starters:

BO:Before Obama

AO:After Obama

BO we had $1.67 gas give or take a few pennies

AO we have $3.50 gas give or take a few pennies

BO we had unemployment around 5%

AO currently unemployment around 9.2%

BO we had health care available and affordable

AO we don't know that we will continue to have healthcare and can pretty much guarantee that it won't be affordable in the future

BO Dems accused Bush of trying to starve the old people by addressing SS

AO he claims they won't get a check if we don't raise the debt ceiling but yet SS is supposed to be solvent for another 20-30 years if you want to believe it

So Nana tell me something the Dems have done that the liberal media hasn't convinced you of.

As for defining lately-- if that is the only basis of your argument then I'm sorry but I can't help you.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jul 13, 2011, at 9:45 PM

Well Nana I would think that wtf is perfectly capable of replying all by himself if he so chooses. Don't you think?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jul 13, 2011, at 9:31 PM

Economic Terrorism: President Lies About Social Security Checks

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/s...

An outright lie, what would the media done with this if a Republican president would have spouted this nonsense.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jul 13, 2011, at 9:28 PM

By the same token wtf what has the Dems done for anyone? I mean what has Washington done for anyone lately? All I can see is that they do pretty well for their self.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jul 13, 2011, at 8:39 PM

News Across are you still on hiatus, or otherwise shut down? I hope all is well with you, and yours.

X-ray are you burned out from your hectic work schedule,and too exhausted to make the appearances that we have come to expect?

You both are missed.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jul 13, 2011, at 10:40 AM

I tend to take a rather simplistic view on life. When it comes to the debt ceiling, my answer would be to either not raise it or do away with it completely. How is it really a ceiling if it can continually get raised?

Meanwhile, it seems rather obvious that the first thing to do to prevent reaching the debt ceiling is to quit spending so much money. Numerous areas could be cut without touching social security and military pay like Obama threatened yesterday. For starters, how about firing a few (or many) less missiles? I had the pleasure of talking to a few off duty Army personnel this weekend who told me that even at monthly training is costs $7,000 every time they fire a missile.

Some kind of tax reform is also necessary, but probably not to the extremes that either party insists. I don't think this is needed to prevent reaching the debt ceiling, but is necessary for actually reducing the debt back to something reasonable.

-- Posted by Philemon on Wed, Jul 13, 2011, at 8:10 AM

rr3yvo,

the rich probably do pay thier "fair share" in regards to "the law". But, then again those laws are made by the rich so I'm not sure how that helps.

You say Obamacare like it's a bad thing. Typical GOP schoolyard B.S. Let's call it what it actually is.

HEALTHCARE INSURANCE REFORM. It ain't perfect but it's a start. What has the GOP done for you lately? What has the GOP done for anyone lately?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Jul 13, 2011, at 6:18 AM

Sparks fly when blades are crossed, just because they must.

Other times we circle round, it's mostly parry, and thrust.

Either way, it's safe to say, it saves our swords from rust.

What stays, or goes, every one knows, in Eric we must trust.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jul 13, 2011, at 1:11 AM

Thanks for the link ND. The problem has always been that not enough people give a hoot, compounded by the fact that few listen to those that do. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Jul 12, 2011, at 11:17 PM

I would say that you hit that on the head.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Jul 12, 2011, at 9:58 PM

I liked the article Nana but it seems to go against everything the media and the politicians are telling us. So the debt ceiling is not about defaulting, it sounds to me it is about uncontrolled spending. Just like Obamacare is not about better or cheaper health care it is about more control over our lives. Kind of like those evil rich politicians trying to tell you we need to make the rich pay their 'fair share', I have yet to see a politician stand up and say he did not pay his fair share so here is a check for it. I would really like to see that then there plight would be more believable. It's all about unregulated spending and your vote.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Jul 12, 2011, at 9:25 PM

Rupert Murdoch: Would you say his Corporation is too big to fail? They, (The British) won't do anything to him or his Business! And were is this breaking up these Monopolies, what happened? I hope the British do there job,and Prosecute. The USA, WOULD JUST LET IT SLIDE!

-- Posted by Jo on Tue, Jul 12, 2011, at 5:19 PM

Phil I don't doubt that you voted against Obama for the reasons you stated. You have proven over, and over on this blog that you are a discerning person. Others however give reasons that are merely camouflage for their darker emotions that they don't want known.

On the other hand my experience of hearing overtly, and masked racial statements from many members of the Right, to say nothing of the horribly racist e mails that fly around the net, and the spurious rumors about Obama lead me to the conclusion I made. I believe that your reasons for voting against him are the reasons of an extremely small minority. Don't forget that I mentioned ignorance of the voters in the same sentence, and I did not draw a conclusion as to what percentage fell into each category.

I did look for statistical evidence that might shine light on the subject, but found none, beyond the large deviation between some who voted for other Democratic candidates that shared Obama's positions, but did not vote for Obama.

Sometimes we have to make decisions based on our life experience, due to a paucity of concrete evidence. I stand by my subjective opinion. If you have hard evidence to support your subjective opinion that my opinion is racist then by all means share it. As it stands you have presented nothing except your own personal action to refute my subjective opinion.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Jul 12, 2011, at 3:56 PM

To be as specific as possible OKR, when YOU said:

"I think about 40% again Cheesehead. Made up of all the racists, and a batch of the ignorant, such as those that believe Obama is going to take their guns, make them sleep with gay people, and is a Muslim who wants to kill their living Jesus."

That wasn't the right playing the race card and you simply commenting on it, it was you making the assumption that people fit into that category if they voted for some Democrats and against Obama, rather than having very valid reasons, such as lack of experience for one, to vote against him. Like I said earlier, he lost me in the primary debates when he showed a total lack of knowledge of our military. Labeling all those who voted that way as either racist or ignorant is way below the usual standard that I've come to expect from you.

-- Posted by Philemon on Tue, Jul 12, 2011, at 2:24 PM

PART THREE

On the surface it appears that this proposed guerilla economic war is to be waged against China. It is not. Its purpose is to support the real people of this nation, and indirectly the real people of the world, including the Chinese people, in the never ending quest to defeat economic systems that thrive because they victimize citizens subjected to their tyranny.

The tactic of boycotting all Chinese manufactured goods parallels the conventional guerilla warfare tactic of cutting the supply lines of the enemy. If successful in this instance, the desired result will be the cut off of profits for those who took our jobs offshore, and prevent them from launching further offensives against our citizenry. The government of our country has failed to take any measures to curtail these corporate offensive acts against the citizenry. Thus we must punish them ourselves.

One other tactic of guerilla warfare is that its warriors have a flexibility advantage over their conventional foe. I leave this topic with the hope that as others enroll, and engage our mutual enemy they will adapt the tactics individually as they see fit to speed we the people to victory. My other hope is that all who participate do not become confused by their anger, and unable to resist the use of physical force in this particular guerilla war. It would be counter productive. In fact it is not outside the realm of possibility that our enemy as a counter insurgency tactic, provokes, and even manufactures incidents to use as propaganda to villianize this movement.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Jul 12, 2011, at 12:53 PM

Phil the race card is played by the Right, the Left comments on that activity. It is played in a game that could be named Hate&Spite. It is played against African Americans, and Muslims. President Obama in the minds of the Right is both, and doubly subject to their venom. It is naive to think otherwise.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Jul 12, 2011, at 11:22 AM

Nana,

If you will actually read my post again, you will see that I didn't even come close to saying that ANYONE who mentions racism has a left wing bias. I did imply and will come right out and say that almost ANYONE who says that ANYONE who didn't vote for Obama did it because they were a racist, would have a left wing bias. Racists come in all shapes, forms, sexes, religions, and POLITICAL PARTIES.

Maybe I've just been too color blind my entire life to really understand racism as well as you. I remember not understanding why my black neighbor across the street wasn't allowed to see me any more because her parents didn't allow it. As far as racism being a defining characteristic, you do have to admit that we have come a long way in the last 200 years. I doubt it can ever be stamped out, not just in this country, but world wide. I hope you do realize that it is not just a local phenomena.

As far as experience, I don't believe that was Clinton's particular weakness, but I won't go there. He had been a rather successful Governor down in Arkansas prior to being elected President. Experience doesn't always equate success, but it does help in a higher percentage of the time.

By the way, it was just as wrong for those on the right to claim you weren't patriotic when disagreeing with Bush as it is to claim racism for not agreeing with Obama.

-- Posted by Philemon on Tue, Jul 12, 2011, at 9:29 AM

Sorry OKR, I've got to go with RR3 on this one. Statistical analysis would mean that you actually took some good statistics and actually analyzed them. Rather, you took some overall voting numbers reflecting only total vote and union membership and inferred that since they voted against Obama that they must be racist. I'm kind of disappointed - I've always thought better of you. This is the left wing bias swallowed hook line and sinker.

Could these people not have simply recognized that he was extremely under qualified. Couldn't they possibly have seen his smooth talk for the political pile of manure that hindsight has shown it to be? Personally, when he first came on the scene I thought he might be president one day, and maybe a good one that I thought I would probably vote for. Running so soon with so little experience was a big turn off. An even bigger turn off were his answers during debates I watched with Clinton and Edwards. He didn't just have bad policies, but gave blatantly wrong info in some of his answers and showed a total lack of knowledge as to how the military worked. But, I suppose you are right, those and numerous other reasons could have nothing to do with why I voted against Obama, and since I also voted for Ike Skelton, I must be a racist. I hope my child of mixed race doesn't take that news too hard.

Also, and I have no statistics to support this, but I suspect there is a larger percentage of racists in this country that are non-union than there is union. The right wing has many many many problems that make most of them not worth voting for or listening to, but I am really tired of the left wing continually playing the race card. How about trying to win an election on the actual issues for a change rather than just continual name calling and creating hatred?

-- Posted by Philemon on Tue, Jul 12, 2011, at 8:01 AM

PART TWO

The strengths of guerilla warfare include the ability to frustrate an enemy that is perceived to be more powerful, by not giving them a direct target that they can utilize their strength against. Also included is the ability to attack at points chosen by the guerillas, so that they may on a localized basis, field superior strength. Another is to improvise weapons against which those in power have no defense. Finally guerillas must devise a simple method of communication with each other that can not be subject to intercept by those against whom the rebellion is waged. Finally the elements of stealth and surprise are key guerilla tactics. We can do that.

In fact, one simple strategy incorporates all of those strengths. We must start by boycotting all products entering this country from China. For the time being buy U.S. made first, if you can even find it. If not buy from Bangladesh, or Brazil, or Germany, or Japan, or anywhere else you can find the goods you need. We can worry about the other imports later. This will entail some sacrifice by each of us, but miniscule sacrifice when compared to that of the starving ragged wretches at Valley Forge.

We must also spread the word. We don't have, nor need media to do this. We must do it by word of mouth, and from citizen to citizen. Copy this treatise, show it to your friends, e mail it to others. Talk about it when among others. Do not put it on face book, or contact your congressional representatives about it. Let them find out when they are surprised at the plummeting sales of Chinese products. We the patriotic human citizens of this nation can do this thing.

By this means we can, and must, reverse what the powers of this world have done to us. When the warehouses are stacked full of Chinese products that won't move, and when we no longer have to read the fine print on items on the store shelves to determine that a product is from China, because we can tell where it is from because it covered in dust, we will be beginning to win this war. We will then have the advantage because our enemy will not know where we may strike next.

We will have done what all our government, and all the brilliant CEOs, have been unable to do. We will have restored our balance of trade with China. We will have slowed the rush of China in their no holds barred economic war for world dominance. We will cause a void in availability of saleable products, wherein manufacturers on our soil at least have chance to fill our needs. We will finally let the government, and arrogant corporations know that they do not rule us, that their role is to serve us, not enslave us. We will have shown the world again as we did in 1776 that America is a beacon of hope to the entire world. Then we can begin to talk to them again. We can then talk armistice, and ending war, but on our terms.

This can be done. The only question is do we have the will to execute it?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Jul 12, 2011, at 2:07 AM

Many citizens of our once great country are sick at what has happened to us. We are frustrated at our sense that we are powerless to do anything about it. Our feelings of rage have driven some of us to the extreme right, and some of us to the extreme left of the political spectrum. Many others have just given up, and are apathetic regarding the woeful state of our politics, our economy, and the outrageous behavior of our corporate citizens. Others have remained in the centerist section of the political fold, hoping, and believing that if folks will just leave their extreme positions we can somehow work things out. Perhaps due to an innately inspired belief in compromise, and the lack of it in our country today, their frustration is compounded.

We all despite our differences as to the cause, are witnesses to the effect upon our country. We all have seen the shuttered factories, the desolate cities, and towns. We all know someone who has lost that good job, and now struggles to support a family on two jobs that together pay less than the good job held prior to the American dream becoming a nightmare. Far too many of us live with a silent dread as to what will happen if I lose my job. I suspect that the most recurrent bad dream in America today as we uneasily toss, and turn in our sleep is based on job loss, and its attendant sub-themes loss of home, health, and dignity. That identification with vulnerability has become nearly universal for a large majority of the good folk of this country.

We have been standing by, believing that we are helpless, as our manufacturing jobs have been scattered to the ends of the earth, as if some country wide economic tornado had blown them all away. We have seen corporations given super citizenship though they demonstrate daily that they have no heart. We see that our government does the bidding of the rich, and powerful, and has forgotten that it is there to serve we ordinary people.

Though the powerful argue otherwise, our jobs did not have to be taken from we citizens. The proof of that is that the jobs of our war industry all remain here on United States soil. I hear no complaints that they can not make a profit domestically from the fat cats of that industry. The truth is that it could be the same for the industries who cried wolf , and abandoned we the people.

Here we sit, filled with ire, and bitter gall, feeling helpless against the tyranny that has been inflicted upon us. We are fools to not look to our founding fathers for guidance, and inspiration. We must once again realize that tyranny against the people may be thwarted only by revolution.

Though there are a growing number of those who are ready to take up arms in a guerilla war that would be fruitless. Revolution today must be waged with the weapons of today, and that rules out anything involving bloodshed, and direct physical confrontation. We have powerful weapons at our disposal that are legal, and non lethal, though I have not heard anyone speak of them. We have been felled by economic weapons, and we must rise again by using economic weapons ourselves in an economic guerilla war.

END OF PART ONE

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Jul 12, 2011, at 12:30 AM

Thank you ND. You said it better than I would have. That doesn't surprise me.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Jul 11, 2011, at 10:45 PM

Then what do you call it okr?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Jul 11, 2011, at 9:56 PM

No rr3 it isn't.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jul 10, 2011, at 11:53 PM

I hope everyone See's how the Republicans are trying too being this Country down! And if you can't,something is wrong with your reasoning.And i think there are some Democrats helping it along ,as well! One day someone will expose this Government for what it is , just as they're finding out about Murdock now! That Clown should go to jail for his Un-American Ideal's or if nothing else just because he's senile and ugly! Ha

-- Posted by Jo on Sun, Jul 10, 2011, at 10:34 PM

Okr why do you label those 40% racist and all those other things you said? Isn't that profiling?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Jul 10, 2011, at 9:49 PM

You may be right on both counts CH. I am a little more cautious as to whether, or not union voters will lurch back to vote for a centrist like Obama, when the Koch Brothers Cartel is blaring the guns, god, and gays mantra with never a let up.

There are too many visceral voters, not enough cerebral voters, and the Koch cartel has mastered the old technique of ring the bell, and make em slobber.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jul 10, 2011, at 6:19 PM

Oklahoma,

I think you are right on the breakdown of those union votes, but I also think those right winger who were against the unions didnt realize they were getting 40% of the union vote. They can blame that on Fox news and the Limbaugh's of the world who are teaching right wingers that unions are all liberals.

I also think that the extremism and overreaching will cause more unions to turn to Democrats in the upcoming elections even some of those you mentioned.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Sun, Jul 10, 2011, at 4:42 PM

One of my considerations that led me to state the types of union members who would vote against Obama is this. In those same places where Obama was losing nearly 40% of the union vote, the Democratic candidates for Congress were losing considerably less of the union vote. That, even in districts where Obama, and the Democratic candidates for the House were emphasizing the same platform items. Hence it had to be some perception of Obama personally that they found negative that caused them to vote against him, but not other Democratic candidates on the ticket.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jul 10, 2011, at 12:01 AM

By the way rr3 one of the people who said 40% is one of your boys, William Kristol. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Jul 9, 2011, at 11:41 PM

I think about 40% again Cheesehead. Made up of all the racists, and a batch of the ignorant, such as those that believe Obama is going to take their guns, make them sleep with gay people, and is a Muslim who wants to kill their living Jesus.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Jul 9, 2011, at 11:36 PM

Where did you get those figures cheesy.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Jul 9, 2011, at 11:18 PM

I would like some opinions on this issue. During the 2008 elections 40% of all union members voted Republican in the 2008 election are there any guesses on how fall that percentage will drop in 2012?

-- Posted by cheesehead on Sat, Jul 9, 2011, at 11:12 PM

The really sad part okr is that I think he is serious.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Jul 9, 2011, at 11:05 PM

http://satiricalpolitical.com/2011/07/06...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Jul 9, 2011, at 12:53 AM

This link is for lefties only. http://existentialistcowboy.blogspot.com...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Jul 9, 2011, at 12:37 AM

OK,

I'm sure you're right. It's not like we export anything else anymore.

The keep talking about how we can't raise taxes on the wealthy because the create the jobs.

Where? In China? Or just jobs for folks to serve them coffee, do thier laundry and mow thier lawns?

What a waek arguement.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Jul 8, 2011, at 2:06 PM

The lies that sold Obama's escalation in Afghanistan. http://www.truth-out.org/lies-sold-obama...

I believe that our economy has been based on war production for so long that to end it would result in an economic meltdown. I think that hit Obama in the face when he became President. I believe that he is resigned to the awful truth of our predictament. Endless war, preparation for war, and furnishing the equipment for the rest of the world's wars is what we do.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Jul 8, 2011, at 11:58 AM

The wealthy can buy the laws and the lawmakers and manipulate them in thier favor. It's never enough for them. They can never have enough.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Jul 8, 2011, at 6:00 AM

http://www.breitbart.tv/devastating-vide...

How do you like me now? The only thing good is the music.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jul 7, 2011, at 8:31 PM

Why do we have a debt ceiling if we always keep raising it? Isn't that promoting irresponsibility? How can we get rid of corporate greed when we can't get rid of it in Washington?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jul 7, 2011, at 8:11 PM

Wtf, both!!! What is your answer?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jul 7, 2011, at 8:00 PM

Very good Nana!!!! I am so proud of you.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jul 7, 2011, at 7:37 PM

rr3yvo,

It's actually kind of ironic that the vast majority of ignorant citizens and the ignorant leaders they elect also believe in talking snakes, humans appearing from thin air and people raising from the dead, etc.,etc,etc.

Which welfare is it you are so appalled with...

social or corporate?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Jul 7, 2011, at 4:16 PM

Interesting rr3 to see you quoting that old lefty George Carlin. Have you seen the light?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Jul 7, 2011, at 1:53 PM

Some folks never learn to believe, nor trust the left despite their astounding run of correct analysis of major problems that have faced our nation.

1. The Great Depression

2. Financial regulation

3. Segregation

4. Viet Nam War

5. Afghan War

6. Iraq War

Instead they scramble to cover their arses with revisionist takes on each of those events. My only questions are is it duplicity, ignorance, or idiocy that fathers such irrationality?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Jul 7, 2011, at 1:38 PM

Confrontation is a necessity rr3, but the devil is in the details. You, and I confront, but our individual mind sets compell us to confront different targets.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Jul 7, 2011, at 1:23 PM

A Clueless America Approaches Bottom

http://www.capitalismmagazine.com/market...

"The left likes people to believe that they are representatives of idealism and the future. No such thing is true."

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jul 7, 2011, at 1:20 PM

Americans are Destroying America

http://www.capitalismmagazine.com/market...

"Ignorant citizens elect ignorant leaders, it's as simple as that. And term limits don't help. All you do is get a new bunch of ignorant leaders. So maybe it's not the politicians who suck; maybe it's something else. Like the public."---George Carlin

"Blame yourselves, if you're in that 80 percent or so who will not hear of confronting the moral and fiscal bankruptcy of our toppling welfare state."

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jul 7, 2011, at 1:13 PM

Nana you fail to define 'fair share'. What would that be exactly and why would it be fair?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jul 7, 2011, at 11:37 AM

rr3 I always appreciate your unique takeaway from the commentary I post here. ;)

News, thanks for the nuts, and bolts you provided to give depth to my snapshot of that particular economic machine.

ND the appellation "Hedge Hog" popped into my head last night as I wrote my commentary. One has to be careful when claiming to coin phrases. I didn't last night, and still don't regarding "Hedge Hog".

I did google it (hedge hog economics) this morning, and though I didn't read every entry (who could) I did not find it used in the context that I did. The nearest use I found was from an essay by the liberal philosopher Philip Tetlock dealing with two approaches to economic prognostication which he entitled foxes, and hedge hogs. http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexcha...

However, whether I coined it, resurrected it, or pulled it unconsciously from a memory bit of something I don't recall reading, I think it fits those A-holes like a glove, and am flattered that you also chose to use it. I respect your erudition, and would appreciate it if you would inform me as to an original source of its use in my chosen context, should you know one. I would like to give credit if it is due.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Jul 7, 2011, at 10:45 AM

For a more detailed viewing of Dr. Wolff's "Capitalism Hits the Fan," you can watch his full lecture given at Brown University at this link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZU3wfjtI...

You may want to skip the long introducion and get right to the lecture.

I hope Dr. Wolff's lecture may shed some light on our current economic problems.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jul 7, 2011, at 8:07 AM

"Capitalism Hits the Fan Part" 1 of 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPmrA_QPm...

"Capitalism Hits the Fan Part" 2 of 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQNvHXJbF...

Lecture by Economist Richard Wolff

If you want to know how we got into this mess and where its all headed then you may want to watch this lecture. Its the best I have seen yet which can explain in simple language just what the economic situation we are facing is and what the root cause is.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jul 7, 2011, at 7:54 AM

Oklahoma Reader

Supply-Side Economics and Free-Market Economics both are actually just other names for Neo-Classical Economics -- which is an Economic Theory more aptly applied to micro economics rather than macro.

It was the bases of Economic Theory (beginning with Adam Smith's "Classical Economic Theory as detailed in his work, "An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations" 1776) until the early 1930's when Keynsian Economic Theory guided the hand of President Roosevelt.

Neo-classical Theory has some serious problems, not the least of which is that it has never, ever pulled an economy out of a deflationary period (Depressionary). Oh but it has some other problems too. The math does not work. Neo-classical theory, in order to work mathmatically, requires 2 or more seperate prices for the same quantity package of goods and services demanded. This results in a discontinous function...or simply put, it just kinda blows up mathmatically. The empiracal evidence for Neo-Classical Economic policies used from 1820 well into the early 30's suggests an inability for the economic model to control wild shifts in the economic cycle -- or rather, continual boom to bust cycles ever 5 to 6 years.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jul 7, 2011, at 7:44 AM

Okr that tells me that spending is the real problem.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jul 7, 2011, at 7:31 AM

It is no longer a wonderful life. Potterites win. Everyone said let George do it, but he couldn't by himself. No help provided by any angels.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Jul 7, 2011, at 1:42 AM

Las Vegas is a ghost town. Missing its high rollers, its halls are filled with the same grim folks of haunted face that regularly show up at the Boats, and Indian Casinos that have proliferated all across our nation. Having reconciled themselves that no real wage increases will be forthcoming from America's employers, the smarter ones are regularly staking a percentage of their pay, down to a desperate, vain hope that Lady Luck will give them the raise that current capitalism can't. Others just lose it, both their dollars, and sense, knowing that what they have in hand from the boss won't pay their ever increasing bills.

But what about the High Rollers? Where are they? They have found a better game with better odds. They have become The Hedge Hogs. The hedge fund game has as many available variants as a casino plus certain elements that smack of three card Monte, card counting black jack, and whack-a-mole that are all perfectly legal. Unlike the casinos if they can't pay their losses, there are no broken knee caps, instead if their gambling losses are large enough, they are covered by the Treasury of the United States.

Perhaps it is stated best by Sebastian Faulks, in his novel "A Week in December", in the words given his character Roger Malpase. The scene is a dinner party of the rich. "What happened,' said Roger "is that investment banks, and hedge funds created evermore arcane instruments which they could flog to one another in a completely false market. Because it was over the counter, in private, the regulators couldn't see it. Then they could sell an inverted iceberg of bets on the likelihood of the original instruments defaulting. They were able to account a notional profit on the balance sheet on all this Alice in Wonderland crap and so pay themselves gargantuan bonuses."

Veals smiled thinly. "I'm afraid it's rather more complicated than that."

"Do you know what?' said Roger. "It really isn't. It's a fraud as old as markets themselves. The only difference is that its been done on a titanic scale. At the invitation of the politicians. Behind the backs of the regulators and with the dumb connivance of the auditors. And with the fatal misunderstanding of the ratings agencies."

My conclusion from all this is that Supply Side economics is dead. Not only because of inherent flaws in that system, but because The Hedge Hogs are addicted to their insured gambling, and won't turn loose of a dime for "trickle down".

http://www.salon.com/technology/how_the_...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Jul 7, 2011, at 1:10 AM

Take another look at America's corporate tax rate.

By this reckoning only Iceland's is lower.

ATTENTION: rr3 and MR. X-ray. http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/07...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jul 6, 2011, at 11:42 PM

"After all of this destructive spending, all of this debt that he authored, all of a sudden now Obama gets to talk about fiscal responsibility. He gets to have the Congress up there and lecture them about spending as though he's been a spectator for two years. That's the thing about this that rubs me wrong." -Rush

And some still believe it when he tells them it is Bush's fault. Still Amazing!!!!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jul 6, 2011, at 3:37 PM

"Don't tell anybody, but there are Tea Party Democrats. I met a bunch; they're listening to this show." -Rush

They are figuring out what you liberals are led to believe is a lie. Amazing!!!!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jul 6, 2011, at 3:35 PM

IN MHO ND that was a good score on that test. Not that we are about measuring each other on these blogs. :)

Peace.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Jul 5, 2011, at 10:44 PM

You are right not until Barack Obama news.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Jul 5, 2011, at 9:12 PM

Anything making you dependent on the government and a burden to society wtf. So take your pick.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Jul 5, 2011, at 9:10 PM

rr3yvo,

Define "entitlement" programs.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Jul 5, 2011, at 4:25 PM

Oh here is another passage from the Pitt opinion piece that I enjoyed:

"Every single "responsible" person in the American power structure went along with what Mr. Bush was selling, because he peddled it neatly between solemn lines about how terrible 9/11 was for everyone...and now that the bill for Mr. Bush's bull.... has come due, and come due with a lethal, nation-shattering vengeance, all those "responsible" people are suddenly looking around like someone trying to avoid getting the check at the restaurant at the end of the night.

I remember America, and it was not always like this."

Wiliam Rivers Pitt

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jul 5, 2011, at 4:09 PM

OKR

I loved the Rivers-Pitt piece.

I especially loved this line which really seems to illustrate the truth simply, and without a lot of pretense.

"Free Market' is just another way to screw me and you out of a lifetime of labor and saving - might as well scrape the sweat off my brow and drink it right in my face - but be sure to vote for the Republican when you hit the voting booth, because we are all going to be rich like him someday. The American Dream says so, and as it turns out, so does he."

William Rivers Pit

2012 is coming real soon.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jul 5, 2011, at 3:59 PM

NanDot,

Thanks for posting that interesting opinion piece frome the Washington Post.

I agree that finally Obama has learned to "just say no" to Republican attempts to destroy our Federal Government and lay waste to our economy. It is refreshing.

My Dad told me once that what Republicans do is try to do as much damage to our Nation as they can in the very short time they have to do it in, because they know full well they don't stand a chance of winning the next election after the People see what the Republicans are really trying to do to our Nation.

I think the President should just simply veto any Bill he does not like. That is his perogative. Let the Republicans shutdown the Government.

The Republicans are fininished in 2012 when the Democrats come out in force in the next election.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jul 5, 2011, at 3:42 PM

Yeah that was an interesting quiz OKR. I did learn a lot of new things about the plant. I enjoy learning new things.

Here is something new and old all at the same time:

"Tea party writer frets over 'non-European immigrants'"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/07/05/te...

...and they wonder why we call them racists.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jul 5, 2011, at 3:26 PM

Tough one huh News? Thus, we are now each better informed. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Jul 5, 2011, at 12:58 PM

RR,

and other wage slaves of the filthy rich fat-cats. a happy dependence day to you too!!

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jul 5, 2011, at 2:42 AM

Oklahoma Reader

I took the quiz.

I did not do well.

I got 3 our of 12 questions answered correctly.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jul 5, 2011, at 2:40 AM

From the redoubtable Christian Science Monitor, a paper linked far too seldom on this blog: Twelve thousand can seek sentence relief of crack cocaine convictions. http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/201...

Note: At the end of the article is a twelve question test, "How much do you know about marijuana?" I am embarrassed to say that I was correct on five of the twelve. I would be interested to know how other posters do on that test. And don't worry you won't be handicapped if you have smoked the stuff, or if you haven't. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Jul 5, 2011, at 12:46 AM

Freed from his pen at the New York Times, here is Frank Rich, free range. http://nymag.com/news/frank-rich/obama-e...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Jul 4, 2011, at 11:44 PM

I REMEMBER AMERICA-William Rivers Pitt

http://www.truth-out.org/i-pledge-allegi...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Jul 4, 2011, at 10:40 PM

HAPPY INDEPENDENCE DAY to all and for all you libs out there -------Happy Dependence Day you can be thankful for all entitlement programs.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Jul 4, 2011, at 6:39 AM

"Who was it that hosted the evening news on the third network, at the time that the three above worked the other two networks?

Time is up.

The answer is (essentially) John Daly, at ABC 1953-58. Harry Reasoner did a later stint for a shorter time. ABC ran a distant third to the other two networks for years. Their was none until Peter Jennings at ABC that reached the status of Anchors at the other two networks.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Jul 4, 2011, at 12:40 AM

ND interesting link to "Coffee Party".

I wish them success.

There is one article that I find troubling. "Establish Justice: We support policy solutions that promote economic and social justice for all...not just a select few. (ADVOCACY CAMPAIGNS FOR AN END TO THE CORRUPT INFLUENCE OF MONEY IN POLITICS, ADVOCACY FOR CONSUMER FINANCIAL PROTECTIONS, ADVOCACY FOR FAIR TAXATION POLICY, ADVOCACY CAMPAIGNS FOR EQUAL RIGHTS)"

The first three items all deal with financial concerns, and to get greater support they should stick to advocating those.

While my personal belief is that advocacy campaigns for equal rights are necessary, and important, this Coffee Party advocacy should narrow the scope of their advocacy.

Firstly, the three financial items are across the board items addressing the concerns of those of all political persuasions hence greater numbers are likely to adhere to the movement. It follows that will result in greater financial support. Additionally, equal rights remains politically charged, and will provoke counter advocacy against the Coffee Party. The harm from Coffee Party abstination to the equal rights movement would be negligible because there are already several fine organizations promoting that cause. There may even be some harm to those organizations due to the Coffee Party bleeding off their funding sources.

Finally, the narrower the focus, the greater the pressure on the target.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Jul 4, 2011, at 12:10 AM

Here is a link about the state of television news today, and about the lack of real reporting. Think warm thoughts about Uncle Walter, Huntley, and Brinkley. If you are young enough to not know who Huntley, and Brinkley were, all the more reason to read the link.

A question for you oldsters to which I have forgotten the answer (though I will probably Google it when I finish this comment). Who was it that hosted the evening news on the third network, at the time that the three above worked the other two networks? http://thepoliticalcarnival.net/2011/07/...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jul 3, 2011, at 11:28 PM

Wow news you really buy in to all that too! I thought you might know better.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Jul 3, 2011, at 11:26 PM

NanaDot,

Your last comment was absolutely brilliant.

You have such a wonderful ability to hit right at the heart of the problem and not waste time doing it.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jul 3, 2011, at 10:52 PM

The Extinction of Retirement

"For years the essential Ponzi-like structures of Social Security and Medicare were concealed behind positive demographics. But once taxes collected from current payers fall short of the required distribution owed to current recipients, the ruse will be laid bare."

http://www.capitalismmagazine.com/politi...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Jul 3, 2011, at 10:46 PM

The Cause of Calmness

"Calmness is easy when you fully, honestly grasp the utter weakness, metaphysical insignificance and sheer torpidity of people who actually say and believe these things."

http://www.capitalismmagazine.com/cultur...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Jul 3, 2011, at 10:33 PM

Why do you think you have that right Nana? Just because? Have you earned it?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Jul 3, 2011, at 10:08 PM

You're welcome okr I figured you would appreciate that.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Jul 3, 2011, at 9:14 PM

Thanks for including me in such excellent company rr3.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jul 3, 2011, at 7:14 PM

Why do you think the rich are all those things? I know a lot of rich people that are none of those things. You're thinking is flawed and unfounded Nana. Like I said they want you to think that and you are falling for it just like okr.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Jul 3, 2011, at 4:18 PM

Amen ND.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jul 3, 2011, at 10:59 AM

rr3yvo,

The problem is that the govt. is bought and paid for. If there were a level playing surface I might agree with your statement. But there isn't a level playing surface and the rich have made sure of that. He who hath the gold makes the rules.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Jul 3, 2011, at 9:25 AM

Boy are you really buying all this Nana?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Jul 3, 2011, at 8:11 AM

That is exactly what they want you to believe. The people telling you this are rich and you still believe what faith.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Jul 2, 2011, at 7:50 AM

It's pretty funny that you still believe all of that Nana. How naive!!!!!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Jul 2, 2011, at 7:48 AM

Unbelievable,that the American People that try too keep up with Politics,can not see whats happening to our Government.What they do, is not to make thing better for this Country,but let it fall! This is why there has to be another alternative,but there is no way that everyone will get to gather and try! This is unthinkable, but, could it be, the majority don't care? As i said before,i had to sign up with the VA for some care after all these years,and even they say they can't get enough money to take care of the Vet's,but still do a helluva job,i have found out! I look back and think about the Guys that went too Canada rather then go to Vietnam,and think maybe they they had it right! It's a helluva thing to think a man wouldn't serve his Country, but why would they, the way things are now,why should they? Its depressing! Good nite you guys.

-- Posted by Jo on Fri, Jul 1, 2011, at 11:45 PM

Referencing my last post rr3; just how much more "business friendly" can the working people stand?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Jul 1, 2011, at 11:15 PM

"Between the second quarter of 2009 and the fourth quarter of 2010, real national income in the U.S. increased by $528 billion. Pre-tax corporate profits by themselves had increased by $464 billion while aggregate real wages and salaries rose by only $7 billion or only .1%. Over this six quarter period, corporate profits captured 88% of the growth in real national income while aggregate wages and salaries accounted for only slightly more than 1% of the growth in real national income. ...The absence of any positive share of national income growth due to wages and salaries received by American workers during the current economic recovery is historically unprecedented."

So what else are you wanting to give to the rich Mr. X-ray? Are you in some kind of race to give them everything?

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/06...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Jul 1, 2011, at 10:59 PM

"Republicans in Washington want what has worked in Texas, Tennessee and North Dakota. They want low taxes and a business-friendly, limited government. That's not sabotage; that's rescue!" -Rush

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Jul 1, 2011, at 9:17 PM

Good morning ND, and Jo.

NanaDot you are right, and I must add that we are compelled to play a different game, with hope that others will see that it is immeasurably better, and join us.

Jo another thing that hurt the Democrats in my opinion, was the Howard Dean strategy to take the election battle to Red States. It was successful on the surface, as several of those states did vote in the Democratic Senate candidate, which on paper gave them a working majority in the Senate. Problem was that those Blue Dog Democrats too often voted against bills promoted by the majority party, per the wishes of their conservative constituency.

Hopefully as the American people continue to get rolled, and rolled over, they will learn to vote progressive over old school, instead of Democrat or Republican. Hopefully they will learn that if it is a corporate backed candidate, it is not a people's candidate.

We shall see.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Jul 1, 2011, at 9:15 AM

Okla,Nana, I agree with everything you all have Posted! I have a feeling that The Bush era set this Country up with Appointments and Placements in our Government,( he and his cohorts), made in all different areas of the Government,(that are still there)working against this Administration! The same with running Republicans as Democrats in our Elections. (Like a-cadea setting up the Sleeper Cells here in the USA),with it set up right eventually they could do away with the Democratic Party, or any other Party, in the long term! It wouldn't surprise me at all! Personally i think it could be done? We should be very careful how we Vote?

-- Posted by Jo on Fri, Jul 1, 2011, at 2:01 AM

A little reminder that our nation's most respected newspapers were cheer leaders for those wars. Only the left, and some Libertarians had it right.

http://consortiumnews.com/2011/06/30/the...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Jun 30, 2011, at 11:21 PM

X-ray you asked, "I know all of you like to be Monday morning quarterbacks.... I suppose since you think that Iraq and Afghanistan were "Wrong" wars against terror, then how would YOU fight the war on terror? just ignore terrorists and just sit back and wait for them to attack us again ?"

Xray Since you asked how we posters would have done it, I will say that we (Lefties) did have a game plan.

My personal plan goes like this.

I wouldn't fight terrorists by throwing armies at them. I was on record with that ten years ago, and have seen nothing to change my mind about that. Nothing Monday morning about that, I was screaming my lungs out NO No NO prior to kick off.

The terrorists are in small cells scattered here, and there. We should have organized, and developed a small force specializing in counter terrorism. We should have ratcheted up diplomacy to secure the cooperation of the world in eradicating terrorism, and access for our forces to combat it.

That was my plan prior to the start of the game. There were lots of others, many with a voice much stronger than mine, that were pleading to be heard, to promote that message. Sadly all our voices were silenced by the deafening roar of mad voices, mad voices sparked by lust for blood, any body's blood would do, that was sweeping our nation.

Where were you on game day? Were you in the stadium roaring with the crowd. Or were you outside with we lefties delivering what most thought was a ludicrous message, "THE GAME MUST BE CANCELLED

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Jun 30, 2011, at 10:41 PM

"The United States is a nation of laws, badly written and randomly enforced. Fewer laws equals more freedom--only a liberal could be opposed to that." --Frank Zappa

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jun 30, 2011, at 7:26 PM

nanadot you are wrong... an economic system cannot be at fault. Capitalism has NO ability to sway any individual or corporation to conduct their business in a good way or a bad way. PEOPLE influence things. And with the way our society accepts more and more immoral behaviors and allows so called celebrities to skate with slaps on the hands and politicians OF BOTH PARTIES to get away with ethics violations and criminal and bad behaviors and actions with no consequences except MAYBE chastizment on the Floor of the House or Senate, it is no wonder that we have problems.... the whole concept of the "Great Experiement" of our new concept of "Self Rule" via a respresentative republic is that it would require men and women of high moral standards and ethics to ensure that this experiement would work. AND we have gradually become corrupted... not capitalism corrupted by PEOPLE and politicians corrupted.

This is what happens when you disincentivize people to provide for their own needs and be responsible for their own actions and consequences of those actions and choices.

The corruption is in society and within the political class and NOT the form of economy that we have. The citizenry have become lazy, fat, apathetic and many have given up hope that we will ever obtain people of good enough character to overcome the REAL problem.....again.. MONEY corrupts and when money is what people are desparately trying to obtain to become elected then the system will automatically become corrupted and the people corruptible.

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Jun 30, 2011, at 6:08 PM

come on nanadot. at least be HONEST and address the bad monetary bribery influence that G. Soros has for his radical view points and to influence policy in HIS favor so HE can benefit personally from that curried favor. IT does not matter if it is the Koch brothers of the Soros, or Al Gore or any other person or group. The problem is the idea that a dollar equals a vote. When a sitting president is DESPARATE to raise a BILLION dollars to use in a campaign.... good grief... a BILLION dollars would feed a lot of people who are hungry, house a ton of people who are homeless. and if Obama does raise a billion dollars it is extremely hard to imagine how much money is changing hands from the working people, from the poor people, from the rich people, from the rich people from the corporations, Unions and special interest groups all to BUY a candidate from whom they will expect special favors as soon as they are in office... the total amount of Dollars for votes from the election of the POTUS to the state and local official is INSANE and corrupting. BUT all you can find are examples of this within the Republican party and NEVER EVER within the Democrat party or the left side of the Aisle.

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Jun 30, 2011, at 5:59 PM

Thanks ND. Too bad many of the workers won't have time to read the very interesting commentary, and facts at the link you provided. The only thing good about that is the anger that they would feel by knowing what has made them stressed out, would stress them even more.

Oh well, the pharmacy has a pill for that stress. for those that can afford it.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Jun 30, 2011, at 2:47 PM

Of course, they should have said it was 'similar' to what they think were Palin supporters who did the same thing, since the same assumptions would apply in that case.

Also, when those"nerdy geeks" track an ip address, it still would tend not to have a political label attached to it. It is possible, but very doubtful. They probably would have mentioned exactly where the ip was traced to in the article if there were any real evidence.

-- Posted by Philemon on Thu, Jun 30, 2011, at 8:35 AM

First of all, just in case anyone got the wrong idea, I am not now nor have I ever been and doubt that I ever will be a Bachmann supporter. I merely point out that Raw Story did not "just report the facts" as News continually tells us, but made a major assumption and reported it as fact.

As far as which side would benefit most from the changes made at wikipedia, I really think it is a wash. If the changes were left and everyone magically believed, then Bachmann would benefit. Despite the poor state of education in this country, I think that had very little if any chance of success, which would make Bachmann opponents have more benefit. But Bachmann's people would then claim sabotage and the benefit switches, and so on, and so on. I don't see the incident changing anyones mind one way or the other.

So, it was either an idiot form one side or the other, or a neutral having some fun, or something else altogether. The world will never know. Most will simply check with their favorite biased news source, such as Raw Story or maybe Rush Limbaugh, and blindly believe whatever it says.

-- Posted by Philemon on Thu, Jun 30, 2011, at 8:04 AM

Nanadot... this one is for you... I know you LOVE the Koch brothers... HOWEVER, where is you hatred for George Soros and his purchasing of MANY main stream media outlets and reporters?

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/05/1...

And what about his spending 27 MILLION dollars to fight the re-election campaign of Bush in 2004? Talk about FOREIGN and INFLUENCING sources of monetary corruption!!

I love the ONE sided slant that you guys attempt to paint about Bush and Repubs and Koch brothers... lol Again Logs in your eye while you are trying to take the speck out of your own eye

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Jun 30, 2011, at 2:23 AM

lol OKR... AND the wars continued by OBAMA and the NEW war instigated by Obama under the disguise of NATO but in reality ANOTHER war....

I know all of you like to be Monday morning quarterbacks.... I suppose since you think that Iraq and Afghanistan were "Wrong" wars against terror, then how would YOU fight the war on terror? just ignore terrorists and just sit back and wait for them to attack us again ?

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Jun 30, 2011, at 2:19 AM

Fox News reports that Japanese radiation,

continues falling all across our nation,

and that folks find it's no aggravation.

http://enenews.com/fox-news-receiving-st...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Jun 30, 2011, at 12:09 AM

Federal Reserve gives Congress the finger, heeds the bidding of Goldman Sucks, and Moregain Chase.

Sticks it to mom, and pop retailers, along with a hostof others. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43584934/ns/...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jun 29, 2011, at 11:28 PM

NanaDot

Thank you for the wisdom encompassed within your last comment.

You speak for millions of us.

...and you are right...

We can do better than that.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Jun 29, 2011, at 11:09 PM

Philemon

Somebody attempting to change Wiki's take on historical facts by changing the stated facts to fiction leads one first to ask now who the heck could benefit from something like that?

Who has motive. So far only conservatives seem to fit the profile. No one else had any thing to gain from it.

You are correct that we don't know the exact identity of the bad guys, however that does not mean we cannot deduce particulars about them.

You can believe what ever you want mate. It matters not what you or I believe in the longrun anyway as regards Bachmann's many, many absolutely incorrect and just plain wrong mis-statements, nor does it matter who you or I may believe is responsible for the ficticious alterations in Wiki. However, we do have good reason to suspect who was behind it and what their motivations are and I don't see much to cast doubt on that.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Jun 29, 2011, at 11:05 PM

Our Nation Is All About The Choices We Make

We can't afford national strength but we can afford "the largest expansion of The Food Stamp Program ever before seen?" money to pay for Obamacare? or a failed stimulus plan?

"The US Senate, controlled by Harry Reid and The Democratic Party, is close to, if not over 800 days since they last passed an original scoreable Federal budget."

http://www.redstate.com/repair_man_jack/...

"Republicans are too gutless and uncaring about their country to make the Democrats openly state, codify and vote for every last one of these priorities."

We need someone that has some principal and can stand for something and stick to it. Not cave to political and media pressure. Or it will never change.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jun 29, 2011, at 9:25 PM

I checked the code utilized by Wikepedia regarding authors. There is no way to recognize them beyond IP. Responsible is not a word I would use regarding Wikipedia.

So, in my opinion Raw Story couldn't check further. Confining themselves to stating apparently, or probably that they were Bachman supporters is about as far as they should have gone.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jun 29, 2011, at 5:14 PM

However Phil, though we can't rule out that some underhanded lefty may have done it to make Bachman, and her supporters look bad, I think it more likely was done by her supporters.

If Raw Story can check the source who did the editing, and failed to investigate the source it was sloppy reporting. They should have commented regarding their search for the source. That it was done by someone is only half the story.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jun 29, 2011, at 5:02 PM

My bad Phil.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jun 29, 2011, at 4:52 PM

I think you misunderstand me OKR. Wikipedia has self corrected the wrong posts in this case. Since it is done by volunteers, this isn't always accomplished. As has been said in this forum many times, wikipedia would not be considered a good source to use in a college class for example. It would be a good place to start though, since sources are listed for much of it's info.

All I was claiming is that nobody can say for sure who posted those false changes. Raw Story claims that it was Bachmann supporters, but has absolutely no evidence, only speculation. By the way, thanks for admitting that Raw Story is left biased - New has always refused to acknowledge that.

Also, I mentioned that I have made numerous contributions to wikipedia. I've only rarely contributed anything I would call new, but have corrected numerous pieces of blatantly wrong info. None of these corrections were at all political or even opinionated in nature. For example, some books written by one of my favorite authors were attributed to another.

-- Posted by Philemon on Wed, Jun 29, 2011, at 3:38 PM

Gotta disagree with you somewhat on this one Phil. I think you are comparing apples, and oranges.

Firstly, Raw Story has an admitted left bias. Nothing unusual about that, it is the same with newspapers. The newspapers select stories at times, or give them more space to fit their particular bias. Their editorial, and opinion pages reflect that bias. Raw Story does print news, it does print opinion, as do newspapers.

On the other hand Wikepedia holds itself out to be a form of encyclopedia, in other words just a provider of facts, never opinion, and never bias. Thus its self policing, to make sure it has facts, not falsehoods. Theoretically it is subject to a different standard than newspapers,as there is no place for opinion, nor bias. People alter Wikepedia content for spurious reasons.

The same opportunity does not present it self at Raw Story, nor newspapers.You can't sign up, and alter a story that they publish as you can on Wikepedia. Space is provided to place opinionated comment about their content, just as there is a letters to the editor section at physical newspapers, and the blogs of online papers.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jun 29, 2011, at 3:20 PM

You are right News, when it comes to Wikipedia it is garbage in -- garbage out. I know you have sworn to us in the past that this isn't the case with Rawstory, they just report the facts. I have to wonder exactly where they got their facts in this case. I actually have an account at Wikipedia and have made many contributions to articles there. When signing up, there were no questions concerning my political views, and certainly no questions concerning which candidates I support. In fact, I could have easily used a fake name and still made as many contributions. So, if Wikipedia doesn't know who tried to make those changes, how does Rawstory? Just another example of how they really are left leaning. To be fair, enough digging could probably produce a right leaning website with an article saying how opponents of Bachmann have tried to change wikipedia to smear her. Such an article would be just as biased and with the same lack of evidence. For all we know, a 10 year old kid could have heard her speech, took it for fact, and posted it. There is simply no way to know.

-- Posted by Philemon on Wed, Jun 29, 2011, at 1:22 PM

"Bachmann fans float Wikipedia edits to cover candidate's recent gaffes"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/06/28/ba...

Yeah...garbage in -- garbage out.

If we want to see our Nation continue its downward spiral, all we have to do is elect dummies to make our important decisions for us.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jun 28, 2011, at 5:17 PM

X-ray you said, "AND the fact that over and over again we use FAILED tactics of spending money in the form of bigger and bigger government "programs" that are formed in the dark of night, in the backroom, under the guise of some national crisis if we dont spend billions and trillions of dollars."

Boy, did you get that one right. The biggest example of that is the wars promulgated on fictions formed in the dead of the night by the Bush/Cheney Administration, and continued under the Obama Administration. We somehow must get away from war being our biggest industry, and the biggest sink hole of the tax payer's dollars.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jun 26, 2011, at 1:50 PM

Because if politicians were not beholden to dollars for their campaigns then they would not have to curry favor and suck up to the entities that they think will give the most campaign dollars. AND if we removed that type of monetary control that corporations and special interest groups hold over politicians then they could actually have REAL debates over the issues and not propaganda to hide the fact that they are accepting bribe money for votes on legislation and policies.

That is why I favor a system where we just take over the networks, TV and Radio, and hold public debates and discussions without ANY commercial subsidies. WE have the emergency broadcast network system that we could utilize and adjust to include video feeds. Who cares what the radio and TV stations think. This would help eliminate the sway and spin that the media outlets utilize to help their favored candidates as well because there would be no money in it for the networks and stations. The only money that should be required for state and federal election campaigns should be what is needed to pay people to run the equipment required to broadcast these events. Each network would not need their own people or equipment as it would just simply be broadcast through their airwaves as is the emergency broadcast signal is.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Jun 26, 2011, at 1:16 PM

nanadot... I agree with you that we have to get away from the whole left blaming the right and common folks who are either Dems or Repubs blaming each other's party as the one who has all of or the most guilt in any problem.

HOWEVER, you also have to stop blaming what you are refering to the evils of capitalism and understand that we dont anywhere close to a free market nor anything close to real capitalism. There are too many interferences written into tax codes that no one person can fully understand that are based on special favors for various special interest groups on both sides of the aisle and the most vocal radical groups who manage to sway some of the public's opinions based on scare tactics and not real science... such as Al Gore and the global warming falsehoods. And interferences in the form of legislation based on the same type of favoritism towards various special interest groups of many different political and social ilks.

AND.... the strangle hold that financial institutions and the Fed hold over Congress and our politics.

AND the fact that over and over again we use FAILED tactics of spending money in the form of bigger and bigger government "programs" that are formed in the dark of night, in the backroom, under the guise of some national crisis if we dont spend billions and trillions of dollars.

And now that the policians from BOTH sides of the aisle have dug us a multi TRILLION dollar hole their continued solutions are to tax us more and to borrow more and to spend even more.

Even the whole "Rich v Poor" idea or the idea that any business entity that is a national or international company is automatically evil and out to get the poor person that many are pushing as being to blame for our woes is something that is only propagated in order to distract us from the real problems.

Until we actually remove the concept that a dollar equals a vote, causing politicians to be slaves to the dollar, then we will never get corrupt politicians out of the political game and we wont eliminate the sway that special interest groups have over politicians and public policy.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Jun 26, 2011, at 1:07 PM

RR3... lol have you not figured out their tactics yet? They post over and over from liberal slanted sites... THEN accuse you of being somehow "wrong" simply because you post something from a site that is slanted to the right.

It is a never ending cycle of evasion, distortion, avoidance, and changing of the subject.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Jun 26, 2011, at 12:56 PM

Joke for this evening,''There are rumors that Sarah Palin will run for president. It's a big decision. On one hand, running for president is a long and grueling process that goes on for months and years. But she could just quit halfway through, right?'' --Jimmy Kimmel

Or, "The White House said that President Obama will not focus on full-time campaigning for a long time. Yeah, he wants to wait a year or two before he gets serious about it -- just like he did with being president." --Jimmy Fallon

Something for everyone.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jun 26, 2011, at 1:08 AM

By the way rr3 if you missed it, I think you also would enjoy it, especially where it rips Keynesians. It is a new way, not your way, nor my way, maybe we both should think about it.

Here is the link again if you did miss it. http://www.yesmagazine.org/blogs/david-k...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jun 26, 2011, at 12:50 AM

Informative post regarding alternatives ND. Thank you. I liked David Korten's definition of market fundamentalists, and as I may choose to use the term on this blog, I am sharing it for the sake of the regulars. Perhaps it will cut back on the number of times readers mumble to themselves "I don't know what he is talking about". I can use all the help I can get. ;)

Anyway, here it is: " Market fundamentalism is more ideology than science. Its practitioners are dedicated to privatizing public assets and services, deregulating markets, lowering taxes on corporations and the rich, and limiting government's role to enforcing contracts and protecting property rights. This school has prevailed for more than thirty years and pushed through the policies that led to the present unconscionable concentration of wealth and crashed the economy. It remains oblivious to the lessons of its experience."

I enjoyed Mr. Korten's commentary.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jun 26, 2011, at 12:39 AM

One of these days wtf it is not a question of maybe it will happen.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Jun 25, 2011, at 7:03 PM

Yes Nana I am serious and you are being seriously mislead and don't realize it. One of these day it will come to light.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Jun 25, 2011, at 6:58 PM

Gosh that is right okr boy am I bad.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Jun 25, 2011, at 6:56 PM

rr3 you said, "I think he was a liberal plant okr sounds like what they do in Washington. lol"

Naw, can't be. Only yellow dogs are Democrats.;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Jun 25, 2011, at 1:29 PM

rr3yvo,

Maybe god will fix everything. But then again.......

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Jun 25, 2011, at 11:41 AM

Righteous Indignation: Excuse Me While I Save the World.

New book by Andrew Breitbart about how the liberal media lies to us. This guy used to be a liberal. Watch the interview with Uncommon Knowledge.

http://www.humanevents.com/UncommonKnowl...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Jun 25, 2011, at 10:25 AM

A good place to start Nana would be to get the government out of the bailout business. News today is saying that GM may be headed to more financial trouble. I gave them 5 years from their bailout and they would be bankrupt and that may be a fairly close guess. Capitalism is not the problem but greed with capitalism is.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Jun 25, 2011, at 10:01 AM

"I think the cost of energy will come down when we make this transition to renewable energy." --Al Gore

HAHA What brilliance and people believe this guy on global warming or climate change or whatever they want to call it to fit their agenda at the time.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Jun 25, 2011, at 9:52 AM

Obama Needs Capitalism; Capitalism Doesn't Need Obama

http://www.capitalismmagazine.com/politi...

Seems that Obama is doing on the job training. Even the unions have a probation period during which if you don't perform, in Trump fashion then "You're fired". How long is the presidential probation period?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Jun 25, 2011, at 6:41 AM

I think he was a liberal plant okr sounds like what they do in Washington. lol

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Jun 25, 2011, at 6:31 AM

And now, last, but not least, for this evening, a bit of political humor allegedly originating from Missouri's politics central. ;)

http://www.borowitzreport.com/2010/09/06...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Jun 25, 2011, at 1:28 AM

A very interesting article. It proposes that we are currently undergoing a populist realignment as a consequence of the third Gilded Age.

The only disagreement I have with it is that the commentator says it presents an opportunity for Democrats to seize the moment. I believe that too many Democrats, not only the Republicans, are enthralled by, and entangled in the machinations of the Gilded Age to seize the moment. I believe it is more of an oppportunity for fresh voices from both parties, perhaps forced by, and joined by Independents in the hop to this band wagon.

Read it, and see what you think. http://mobile.thehill.com/opinion/column...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Jun 25, 2011, at 1:21 AM

Genetically modified marijuana? LOL I guess it had to become like corn, soy beans, etc., part of the GM movement sooner, or later. After all it is one of the biggest cash crops in the world. http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110624/lf_...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Jun 25, 2011, at 12:54 AM

OFF WITH THEIR HEADS! If things don't change, the people in the streets will be roaring that soon enough. We have had enough of their patent nostrums that don't cure a d*mn thing.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Jun 25, 2011, at 12:34 AM

Oklahoma Reader

Good point a\nd well made.

My favorite historical response to the fat-cat, rich elite is the French Revolution.

I really do wish the Rich, fat-cats and their apologists -- the conservatives -- would stop and have a good look at the French Revolution and count the number of Aristocrats and Royalty who met their end flat broke and sitting in a prison awaiting their turn upon the guillotine.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jun 24, 2011, at 11:16 PM

"GOP poll: Tea party movement could cost Republicans in 2012"

Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/06/22/22...

Yeah...the jig's up.

The word is getting out.

Folks are finally figuring out who these teaparty folks really are -- the extremist right-wing of the Republican Party...the same folks who voted for Bush twice...the same folks who still defend his outragous abuse of power and his many misdeeds.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jun 24, 2011, at 11:08 PM

rr3 you are also on a roll. no doubt we of the masses are experiencing the effects of inflation. The inflation index is nothing but a sham to make things seem better than they are when it does not include the items that are essential for all but the well off to live their daily lives. Do they feel our pain? Heck no! Everything is wonderful. No, bread? Let them eat cake. Not only do the elite not know our problems, as far as they are concerned there is no problem, everythingis rosy.

Well, wait until there insulated butts wake up one day to their duh moment, and find that we no longer can, nor would if we could, buy what they are selling figuratively, nor literally.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Jun 24, 2011, at 8:45 PM

What's Up With All the Presidential Gaffes?

http://pajamasmedia.com/michaelledeen/20...

Seems like we heard about every one of them during Bush but not a peep now. Makes you wonder who the dummy is, us or them?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Jun 24, 2011, at 8:14 PM

Man okr you are on a roll I think consumption will continue to decline as long as the price of food and energy increase. If we keep spending more on the staples for a civilized lifestyle then we will do without other things. I know the price of fuel alone has us considering every time that we get in the car: Is this a necessary trip, could it be combined with another? When we go somewhere for part of the day we consider do we eat out or do we pack our lunch? If I understand correctly that the price of food and energy is not figured in when they tell us whether we have inflation of not. I don't know about you but my cost of living is inflated.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Jun 24, 2011, at 8:05 PM

It is a standard finding in economics that investment is determined by consumption as past sales are seen as indicators for future sales. When consumption is slow so is investment.

We are in a real pickle with this Great Recession. It is stagnancy in both consumption, and investment, neither will make the first move, so here we sit(on our hands).

Government must put money into research, and development which will prod investment in newly developed innovations, as a substitute for the usual stimulus (consumption) which is not going to magically reappear. In fact consumption is going to continue to shrink as our fears are magnified. There has to be a new approach, I suggest this one.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Jun 24, 2011, at 7:49 PM

Finally an admission, yes, we are trying to assassinate Gaddafi, regime change is our mission, we will need boots on the ground after he is killed. Will we ever again have an administration that doesn't lie to the people of our country to embroil us in war? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/24...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Jun 24, 2011, at 7:27 PM

Phill

Yeah the previous capitalist government of Greece certainly did make a mess of things and yeah of course in the next election the Greeks elected a socialist Govenment which is now saddled with the problem Its a real shame that the IMF is forcing Greece to sell off their assets -- but that is how it goes in a capitalist economy sometimes.

Anyway, I see unemployment is still above 9% in the USA (effective unemployment, including phantom unemployment and under-employment, is actually around 22%). Anyway its been very high for many years now. Its a real shame those conservative economic policies are still in place despite the fact that they have done nothing to improve things there. Its a real shame.

I personally don't really care what approach America takes anymore, and I really don't care much what happens there anymore. Its you and others who cling to failed conservative notions who will suffer along with everyone else there -- not me and my wife. My wife and I are set financially for life. Our income is not market-based and is guaranteed by the full faith and credit of the Australian Government. Our health care is socialized, guaranteed, and at no direct cost to us, so no worries there. We are set. We don't worry about our own employment as such is not necessary for us -- so unemployment in America or Australia means nothing to us personally.

So at this point all I can do is wish you and my other fellow Americans good luck with the coming shut-down of the US government, your high unemployment, your decreasing life-style, ect. As for my wife and I, we are set for life and American failure doesn't mean a whole lot to us anymore. We vote, we protest, but we also know that America's failures are the result of conservative policies and our conscience is clear.

We will be sitting and enjoying coffee at an outdoor cafe on the beautiful Paramatta River in about an hour -- our usual morning. Its Winter here lol...that means it will only hit about 75 degrees here today. So its going to be another beautiful morning...quietly enjoying the sunshine, the river, and our coffee...and not worrying about the results of American conservative policies in America lol.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jun 24, 2011, at 4:49 PM

"Van Jones on the deficit: 'We are not stupid. We can do the math.'"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/06/24/va...

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jun 24, 2011, at 3:37 PM

I read on CNN the other day how Greece is considering selling government owned banks, real estate, airports, etc. and also end many government funded handouts to get money for their financial problems. In other words, socialist Greece is looking to capitalism to solve it's problems.

I think the answer has to be somewhere in the middle.

-- Posted by Philemon on Fri, Jun 24, 2011, at 11:59 AM

Phil I think you said that very well.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Jun 24, 2011, at 11:42 AM

News,

Since I do not now and never have claimed to be an economist, I hesitate to get into this, but since rr3 isn't answering your question "Name one time when Neoclassical economic policies have pulled our economy out of a deflationary period please" then I'll take a stab at it.

Like I said, I'm not an economist, but I can use a wee bit of logic. First, I'm going to make a couple of simple assumptions, even though I know that can get me into trouble:

1. We have had several economic downturns since the Great Depression.

2. We have come out of them, yes, only to go back into another one later.

You have told us in the past that capitalism in general can only go in cycles of boom and bust. You have also told us how we haven't given Keyensian economic policies a chance since FDR. Therefore, logically, my answer would be that EVERY economic downturn since WWII must have been ended using Neoclassical policies. Those same policies may have got us into the mess in the first place, but obviously they have also got us out in the past.

Personally, I am all for New Deal like policies combined with getting out of the Welfare State. I think most hand outs should have some kind of work attached to it. For example, unemployment benefits already require a minimum of two job applications a week, but maybe it should include some community service hours, or some kind of work also. Maybe having to actually earn the small check would encourage a harder hunt for a job.

-- Posted by Philemon on Fri, Jun 24, 2011, at 9:47 AM

The U.S. Senate flails about in an effort to save face as the coalition in charge of bombing Libya begins to crack

http://www.redstate.com/jeff_emanuel/201...

Trying to cover for a president that is a total failure. Does the US have any interest there? This has done nothing but embolden Gaddafi. Come on liberals where is the outrage? What if Bush had done this? You would be screaming at the top of your lungs, IMPEACH. Now we hear nothing, silence.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Jun 24, 2011, at 6:44 AM

Hillary Clinton Questions Congress's Patriotism Over Libya

http://www.redstate.com/jeff_emanuel/201...

Funny how liberals always change their argument to blow with the political wind. They should come like a carton of milk with an expiration date.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Jun 24, 2011, at 6:34 AM

Quite a prophecy News that I can mostly agree with. I am just wondering if you believe it? and why?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Jun 24, 2011, at 5:58 AM

Does it make any difference okr?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Jun 24, 2011, at 5:51 AM

"Rockefeller Reveals 9/11 FRAUD to Aaron Russo"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nD7dbkkB...

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jun 24, 2011, at 4:09 AM

"Chris Hedges: Global revolution must begin in America"

"Pulitzer-winning author and former New York Times reporter Chris Hedges has a revolutionary worldview. In the video below, his recent "Endgame Strategy" piece for AdBusters is read aloud by George Atherton."

(Audio version)

http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/0...

(Written Essay version)

http://www.adbusters.org/magazine/96/chr...

Very interesting argument that asserts we are headed towards Neo-Fudalism. Pulitzer Prize winning reporter Chris Hedges makes a well supported argument.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jun 24, 2011, at 3:16 AM

Did you rr3, also fail to reply to questions in grade school?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Jun 24, 2011, at 12:30 AM

Obama releasing 30 billion barrels of oil from our strategic oil reserve. Does that mean that supply means something? Why aren't we drilling?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jun 23, 2011, at 9:33 PM

I am surprised news that you don't know more about Keynesian theory that you support. Ignore if you want I did the same things in grade school.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jun 23, 2011, at 9:16 PM

RR

Agreeing to slash social programs to the poor is not a Keyensian approach -- its the opposite. Giving money directly to State Governments and Banks in the form of bailouts is not Keyensian. Employing the tax multiplier to stimulate the economy with out direct government employment of the unemployed and engaging them in the rebuilding of the infrastructure is not Keyensian. Those are Neo-Classical approaches to the economy.

Also nowhere in Keyensian economic theory does it recomend lowering wages per say. Please post your source of your claim as its the first I have ever heard of that.

Now back to my question -- one of many you thus far seem to refuse to answer. Name one time when Neoclassical economic policies have pulled our economy out of a deflationary period please.

Oh and RR, I have a new policy regarding questions. When you answer my question with a question, I will ignore it until you at least attempt to answer my question or admit you have no answers.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jun 23, 2011, at 6:02 PM

It's funny news that you would believe in an economic theory without scientific evidence. Obama has employed Keynesian theory with extreme deficit spending. Also Keynes believed wages needed to go down to boost employment. I guess you would say we are moving in the right direction. But it don't seem to be working. Government intervention put the 'Great' in the Great Depression. I am really surprised that you would believe in a theory such as this when no amount of evidence will convince you on other matters. I do understand that my knowledge may be limited in this area so since I cannot discuss this at your level I will leave it at that. Thanks anyway. Okr is right there are way too many stupid people, we need the government to do it.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jun 23, 2011, at 10:54 AM

NanaDot

I could not agree more.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jun 23, 2011, at 8:04 AM

Well frankly RR, with all do respect, I think your knowledge in this area is fairly limited mate.

If we want to support good economic policies, we should be basing them on policies that have worked under similar circumstances -- such as Keyensian economic theory which successfully brought us out of the Great Depression. Clearly the New Deal policies were quite successful but the New Deal policies were struck down by the Republican majority on the High Court during the 1930s -- another split decision -- which eliminated and abruptly ended the NRA programs -- programs that provided jobs to the unemployed and strong stimulation of consumption. Striking down the National Recovery Administration caused the Great Depression to drag on longer than it otherwise would have. Never-the-less, though a bumpy recovery, by 1939 the economy was well on its way to full recovery despite the fact that the economy was at the low end of the normal economic cycle in 1939.

Can you cite when Neo-Classical economic policies have even once pulled our economy out of a deflationary period?

Good luck with that.

We need a New Deal and we need it now -- and if we don't get it soon you, me, and everyone else will suffer tremendously from run away deflation -- no matter what our political affiliation may be. We all have a stake in this mate.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jun 23, 2011, at 7:36 AM

When has the Keyensian approach worked and for how long?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jun 23, 2011, at 7:02 AM

News either I am talking way over your head or totally beneath your understanding I don't know which!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jun 23, 2011, at 7:00 AM

Does that mean you won't or can't answer the questions?

After all, you were the one who made the statement regarding Free-Market economics (properly known as Neo-Classical economic theory). Did you make that statement without regard for the laws of economics?

Neo-Classical economic approach has serious problems and seriously bad results (such ss the current deflationary period which is only going to get worse with the massive State and Federal layoffs). Empirically, there is no support for Neo-Classical Economic Theory and it won't work mathmatically...yet some folks -- conservatives like yourself -- think its a great approach. Could that conservative approach perhaps be the result of a understanding of economics that is superficial at best?

I think its probably fair to aay that we all want to see a healthy economy in the USA. However, basing our National Economic Policy on economic theory that fails empirically and mathmatically over and over again just makes no sense.

Its time we abandon that failed approach and try something that works -- a Keyensian approach.

We need a New Deal and we need it now...before its to late to do anything at all.

1.) End all wars and bring the troops home.

2.) Hire the unemployed to rebuild the National infrastructure.

3.) Revoke NAFTA and reinstate market protections -- such as import tariffs -- to rebuild our manufacturing base and encourage the building of capital.

4.) Increase taxes on the rich to a level equivallent to most Western, Industrialized Countries (usually around 65%).

5.) Tax the income of American manufactures operating offshore at the same rate as onshore.

6.) Nationalize energy and medicine.

Do these things and maybe in 5 or 6 years we will finally see some real and serious improvement in the economy, but we should begin enacting these changes as quickly as possible. Tomorrow won't be soon enough mate.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jun 23, 2011, at 6:57 AM

You are right Nana.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jun 23, 2011, at 5:29 AM

rr3yv0

Regarding your take on Free-Market economics (Neo-classical economic theory)...

How do Perfect Competion forces of economics figure into your computations?

What results does Perfect Competition produce in regards to the price of labor (wages and salaries)?

What effect does Perfect Competition in the labor market have on consumption and tax revenues?

What does the emperical evidence say about it?

What kind of movement along the IS/LM (Investment-- Savings/Liquidity of Money) curve do we see as a result of Perfect Competion in the labor market?

I am anxious to hear your thoughts on the effect of Perfect Competition in the model you describe.

...and I can give you a hint -- it isn't good lol lol lol...well not for the working class and middle class anyway...lol...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jun 23, 2011, at 3:43 AM

rr3 you said, "Probably not possible Nana because we can see what liberal policies has gotten us in the last 2 1/2 years. The sad part is they don't even realize it. All you have to do is read post on here to see that. John Kerry may be right the American public is stupid."

The best evidence that it is not going to happen rr3 is your own statement. You read the same article that I did. It talked about problems on both the left, and the right. There was merit to the statements regarding each. Yet the best you could do was hurl more invective at the left. Not even an acknowlegement that there may be a problem with the right. It is as if we didn't even read the same commentary.

There are far too many on the left, and the right that can only see a problem with their opposite. It is so tribal that it is ridiculous. Yes, and it is proof that there are too many stupid people.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jun 22, 2011, at 11:59 PM

Well wtf slavery was inefficient because the only incentive to work hard was to just do enough to keep from getting punished. In the free market you voluntarily sell your labor to an employee of choice. Free labor(capitalism) will always produce better products then slave labor.Government interference interrupted the market forces that would have gradually and peaceably done away with slavery. Our government used tax dollars paid by all to return slaves to a privileged few. You could actually be fined if you didn't participate in slave patrols again paid for with tax dollars and eased the burden on the slave owners.

You have to ask if slavery was so inefficient why did it exist at all? People always lobby the government for privileges even if we would be better off if all the privileges were eliminated. People are motivated by bad ideas that just keep us poorer than we should be.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jun 22, 2011, at 5:52 PM

Probably not possible Nana because we can see what liberal policies has gotten us in the last 2 1/2 years. The sad part is they don't even realize it. All you have to do is read post on here to see that. John Kerry may be right the American public is stupid.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jun 22, 2011, at 3:21 PM

Works both ways news. I would like to know how you know nature don't care and if that is the case how can it respond?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Jun 21, 2011, at 9:30 PM

Here's another, politics, or religion? So many Right wing Christian groups are politically active that we might even call it The Great Crossover.

Anyway, Christian Conservative Group Demands Vitter's Resignation, Says G O P Committing Outright Hypocrisy By Letting Him Stay. http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/0...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Jun 21, 2011, at 9:27 PM

Tough decision as to whether to put this on the politics blog, or the religion blog. "Newly crowned Miss USA was one of only two contestants who believe in Evolution." http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/0...

Hmmmm? All contestants this year were asked the question in a preliminary round. Did this fact occur because fundementalist judges, and contest moguls in preliminary rounds, turned thumbs down on contestants who professed a belief in evolution? Was it because of the so called "dumb blonde" effect? Something else? Watcha think?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Jun 21, 2011, at 8:49 PM

"Watchdog: Sen. Vitter tried to 'bribe' Sec. Salazar with pay raise"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/06/21/wa...

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jun 21, 2011, at 3:46 PM

rr3yv0

Are you making new allegations regarding Senator Kenedy now?

What is the charge and what is your evidence?

Don't just half do it mate...come on and tell us what was on your mind...but be very careful you know the facts before you make the charge or you might end up looking pretty silly.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jun 21, 2011, at 3:45 PM

Hey crazier things have happened they voted Kennedy in how many times? Something about a girl in a car in a river. An average person would still be in prison for it.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Jun 21, 2011, at 6:44 AM

Yeah RR.

I suspect he will resign.

Anyway, he can give up that plan to be the Republican candidate for the Idaho Governor's Office.

I know if I had to choose between him and Weiner for Governor of a State, I would feel much safer with Weiner as a Governor than that conservative fellow who was seeking "the promised land" in that stolen truck. Well anyway, I guess he found "the promised land" in the form of a jail cell and a career dead in the water lol lol lol...

...another one bites the dust lol lol lol lol...

Ya know the funny part is that what the Republican did was so crazy that it didn't take an organized smear campaign to bring him down. Surely to goodness nobody would ever vote for that fellow again...would they?

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jun 21, 2011, at 12:24 AM

He should resign too.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Jun 20, 2011, at 11:35 PM

"GOP lawmaker gets drunk, steals truck, wrecks it, then takes nap"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/06/20/go...

Yeah but what Weiner did -- typing adult-themed, consensual messages to an adult woman in Las Vegas -- is far worse than what this Republican did...eh RR?

No reason for this fellow to consider resignation -- after all his was not an adult-themed behavior and thus perfectly acceptable to conservatives -- and don't worry -- you won't hear about it on Fox News.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jun 20, 2011, at 11:22 PM

I appreciate your consistency rr3.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Jun 20, 2011, at 10:48 AM

That's right okr.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Jun 20, 2011, at 8:43 AM

I watched the Bill Maher reading of Weiner's emais and the emails sent back in response.

Has anyone else seen it? Its a verbatim reading...word for word reading, of the emails that went back and forth.

I listened. I laughed.

Most of all, when it was all said and done, it did little more than make me realize Weiner is just as human as the rest of us...no more, no less.

What a sad sideshow this has been...while the Republican Congress tries to do as much damage as they can to our Nation with the short time they have left as the Majority Party in the House.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jun 20, 2011, at 5:16 AM

rr3 you said, "The National Enquirer!! Really okr I am going to have to lower my expectations."

Sounds to me like you didn't read the link rr3. Apparently the New York Times is about to do the story. Now I know the Times doesn't have the credibility with you that Rush does, or say...Fox News, but the Times ought to at least give you a heads up as you wait for your superior sources to report it.

Never mind that though. Have you forgotten that it was the National Enquirer that was early on the Clinton/Lewinski scandal? Others followed them. It appears that a similar scenario is setting up.

By the way, if it is true about Boehner's adultery you will be first in line demanding he resign, or be expelled...right?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jun 19, 2011, at 11:32 PM

There may be 18 billion dollars of Iraq's money, money that was in control of the U. S., unaccounted for. Most is missing from the earlier Bush years. Who got it? http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middle...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jun 19, 2011, at 11:20 PM

Losing His Religion

A Pentagon terror scare and a media taboo.

Probably didn't hear about this one either.

"When news organizations evade facts that fit what they see as undesirable stereotypes, they train news consumers to fill in the blanks even when the stereotypes do not apply."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Jun 19, 2011, at 10:15 PM

The National Enquirer!! Really okr I am going to have to lower my expectations.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Jun 19, 2011, at 9:59 PM

The Muslim Brotherhood and Weiner

His mother-in-law and his wife's brother is supposedly members and this doesn't even make the news. Why?

http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/06/t...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Jun 19, 2011, at 9:57 PM

Is Republican heavyweight John Boehner caught up in an adulterous relationship? Is the N Y Times about to do an expose'? The National Enquirer has already broken the story.

If proven,should he have to resign? http://current.com/news/93289537_boehner...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jun 19, 2011, at 6:47 PM

BETTER REPRESENTATION OF THE PEOPLE 101

Examining the shortcomings of the American two party system, and the steps needed to replace it with a multi-party system. http://www.suite101.com/content/how-to-e...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jun 19, 2011, at 6:32 PM

More stuff on Fox News consumers, still believing the highest level of misinformation.

For all the duped, at this link there is a looong list of the things that you are wrong about. http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/politic...

Last chance to get right with knowlege...come on down.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jun 19, 2011, at 6:07 PM

Nothings going to change until we change the System. After all these Years they have Perfected the the art of doing what they want,and with the Peoples Blessing! We are fools?

-- Posted by Jo on Sat, Jun 18, 2011, at 11:43 PM

Those people who choose the words of Rush Limbaugh have parted ways with their God. The average person's voice has been silenced due to the greed that these people like Rush have fostered onto the masses. Their value is on a person's net worth and not the value of ones quality of life. It's too bad Rush doesnt have to pay fines for his lies he spreads because then they might actually hear the truth.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Sat, Jun 18, 2011, at 10:37 PM

Is that the best you can do? I really expected better.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Jun 17, 2011, at 11:08 PM

Or, has his God replaced rr3 with Rush? ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Jun 17, 2011, at 9:43 PM

rr3yvo,

Have you relaced your God with Rush?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Jun 17, 2011, at 7:44 PM

"Government dependence is a learned behavior, and the Democrat Party and the worldwide left have been teaching and encouraging it for years." --Rush

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Jun 17, 2011, at 7:28 PM

We're Living Through What Occurs When the Liberals Get Their Way

"The more people become independently wealthy, the less they need government. The left needs you dependent, the left needs you subservient. The left, the Democrats and the president want you needing them."

"The same party that yells about tax cuts for the rich have made it so that General Electric pays no taxes. Do you think Bush did that? you think Reagan did that? That was Barack Obama, my friends."

Look what happened to Microsoft when they didn't have a lobbyist in Washington, they do now.

They say small business creates jobs but who is on Obama's job council, corporate America folks. It's all for show. It's not about creating jobs these Democrats got you right where they want you and they know you will defend it because you depend on them.

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/s...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Jun 17, 2011, at 7:26 PM

"Unemployment, jobs, manufacturing, inventories, foreclosures, housing starts, housing prices, inflation, gas, food? Except for those details, everything has been pretty much wonderful since Obama took over." -Rush

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Jun 17, 2011, at 6:56 PM

Cheesehead you said:

"I would like to see someone figure out how much money we would have if it wasn't for the wars in Iraq and Afganistan along with tax cuts for the rich and all the oil subsidies given out in the last 10 years." Here it is, in rough form just for you. :)

Oil subsidies: forty five billion dollars over the last ten years. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/...

Cost of wars: One trillion and two hundred and eight billion dollars. http://costofwar.com/en/

Cost of Bush tax cuts over the last ten years: Somewhere between one and a half trillion dollars, and two and a half trillion dollars. http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/2...

Taking the low figure on tax cuts we would have roughly two trillion and seven hundred fifty billion dollars to play with. Now that is a whopping drain on the treasury. Just think of all the good that could have been done for all facets of our decaying infrastructure, and the jobs that would have been created to do it. Think of all the children that could have been assisted to become all they can be, in much more productive ways than is promised by the Army when they tout the slogan "be all you can be".

What a shame.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Jun 17, 2011, at 12:43 AM

Right on Cheesehead. (he says, knocking the dust off an affirmative circa 1970)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Jun 17, 2011, at 12:06 AM

I would like to see someone figure out how much money we would have if it wasn't for the wars in Iraq and Afganistan along with tax cuts for the rich and all the oil subsidies given out in the last 10 years. Not to mention if we would close all the tax loopholes that would bring in millions if not billions in revenue. If we also did away with health insurance companies we would save huge amounts.

If we did this their wouldn't even be a discussion about taking money away from senoirs, children, and the poor. I'm confident the American people are begining to wake up to what the right wingers are doing to this country.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Thu, Jun 16, 2011, at 11:43 PM

Interesting xray, veeeery interesting!!!!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jun 16, 2011, at 3:27 PM

Mrs. Obama's pet project, school nutrition program, is being funded by taking money away from food stamps for POOR People.... where are all you liberal and why arent you crying about this?

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Jun 16, 2011, at 2:14 PM

A very interesting article about Ayn Rand, the darling of the Tea Party, and Paul Ryan. It includes discussion of why Christians support her atheistic, anti-Christian beliefs. I believe that this one is edifying, and of interest to those of the right, left, and middle. http://www.gorevidalnow.com/2011/06/gore...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Jun 16, 2011, at 12:09 AM

A nuclear power plant 20 minutes outside of Omaha is reportedly at a stage 4 level of emergency. On June 6th the airspace for two miles around it was shut down. Unrelated to the emergency is the fact that the plant is on an island, and the Missouri River is flooding., which also is raising concern. Details are sketchy, and disputed (just as they were in Japan). At this point it is something we should keep our eye on.

http://www.businessinsider.com/faa-close...

Meanwhile high levels of radiation has been found in whales caught 650km from the Fukishima nightmare.

Something else to keep our eyes on. http://www.myweathertech.com/2011/06/15/...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jun 15, 2011, at 11:28 PM

Backfire: Nothing in Palin E-Mails

"Palin did better in her public colonoscopy than Katie Couric did in hers."

The State-Controlled Media couldn't find anything so they are ticked.

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/s...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jun 15, 2011, at 10:10 PM

Spending Addiction: Will Obama and Dems Go to Stimulus Rehab?

Weiner is not the only one needing rehab.

OBAMA: "That's exactly right. And, you know, a year from now I think people are gonna see that we're starting to make some progress, but there's still gonna be some pain out there. If I don't have this done in three years, then there's gonna be a one-term proposition."

There'e one thing I hope he is right about.

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/s...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jun 15, 2011, at 9:55 PM

Now here is a guy that has too much time on his hands, and too little sense as to how all that time could be used productively. He might as well go on a search for a steak that had last month, been thrown into a pen of pit bulls. http://www.5min.com/Video/US-Diver-On-a-...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Jun 14, 2011, at 2:35 PM

How Welfare Destroys the Family

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/s...

It is passed on to the next generation.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Jun 13, 2011, at 7:17 PM

rr3 I guess you, and Rush believe it would be better to just let em starve, or freeze to death. You got a point. Grudgingly I have to admit that would stop passing it on to the next generation. It would also stop that nasty old over population problem we have. We haven't been very efficient at doing that since we nearly wiped out the indigenous people of this country.

You guys on the right have such great ideas.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Jun 13, 2011, at 11:20 PM

Americans Hooked on Medicare Crack

http://www.capitalismmagazine.com/law/pr...

"Private enterprise and capitalism are still America's greatest hope."

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Jun 13, 2011, at 9:01 PM

"There is only one way to kill capitalism--by taxes, taxes, and more taxes." ---Karl Marx

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Jun 13, 2011, at 8:50 PM

How Welfare Destroys the Family

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/s...

It is passed on to the next generation.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Jun 13, 2011, at 7:17 PM

In their crusade to change the United States as we know it, Republicans that claim to be pro-life are actually not so pro-life after all. They have constantly called abortion the mass murder of unborn children and yet, the Republican agenda being slammed through the US House of Representatives and Republican controlled state houses across the country will end up killing or harming more children around the world than abortion ever could.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Sun, Jun 12, 2011, at 11:25 PM

I have always in your words, "gotten it" rr3 regarding the alleged health care reform. It was a sell out to big pharma, and insurance companies.

In fact I think Pharmacare, actually has a truer ring than Obamacare.

The best thing about it? It is a starting point toward universal health care for Americans. Since Nixon's failed efforts, on through Clinton's, no Administration has been able to get anything into law. Now we do. It is such a mess that it must be changed. No one believes we can fail to do that. Hopefully that will result in a better program. We are finally on a mandatory roll, after over forty years of sitting on our hands.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jun 12, 2011, at 11:39 AM

25 shocking facts that prove the entire U. S. health care industry has become one giant money making scam. http://endoftheamericandream.com/archive...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jun 12, 2011, at 12:10 AM

I've been trying to tell you guys this when they began talking about Obamacare. Obamacare is only making a problem worse. I'm glad someone finally gets it.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Jun 12, 2011, at 8:28 AM

Reaganomics Vs. Obamanomics: Facts And Figures

"When President Reagan entered office in 1981, he faced actually much worse economic problems than President Obama faced in 2009."

"For the last couple of years, President Obama keeps claiming that the recession was the worst economy since the Great Depression. But this is not correct. This is the worst "recovery" since the Great Depression."

http://blogs.forbes.com/peterferrara/201...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Jun 11, 2011, at 6:48 AM

Evening ND. :)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Jun 11, 2011, at 12:01 AM

The House of Representatives since its take over by the Republicans, could more appropriately be called the House of Mean based on their all out effort to balance the budget on the backs of the most fragile members of society, the elderly, and children. Destroy Medicare, destroy Social Security Retirement, and now their meanest, and leanest yet. They want to cut funds for the WIC nutrition program, cutting off 200,000 to 350,000 low income women, and children dependent on the program for nutrition, while refusing to ask one dime in help from the richest in America.

They stand firm on keeping their rich benefactors at the low Bush tax rate they have enjoyed for years.

It reminds one of Dickens' "Oliver Twist" wherein Oliver asked for a second bowl of gruel, and the masters thought it best to hang him for his effrontery. At least that would have been a quick death. Starvation is painful, and slow. Leave it to our current Republicans to be nastier than Dickens' villains. http://www.thewashingtoncurrent.com/2011...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Jun 10, 2011, at 11:52 PM

Israel of of course WW, though I would call them our most favored ally, as opposed to the one ally.

In one sense they are like a spoiled and mouthy little brother who shoves every one in the school yard. We are like a big brother that is only smart enough to go there, beat up every one li'l bro has gotten in to it with, or may in the future. Of course we also want to pick the pockets of those that we beat up(oil and other resources). ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Jun 10, 2011, at 2:29 PM

Can someone please tell me one positive thing Obama has done for this country? He scares me--why are we spreading our military forces so thin--Yemen, Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan? Are we seeing a pattern here? Are we headed to a draft? Who is our one ally in the Middle East and how are we supporting them?

-- Posted by WickedWitch on Fri, Jun 10, 2011, at 1:35 PM

and OKR, Aussie Wife and News...

As a VOTING US CITIZEN I have the RIGHT and the OBLIGATION to review the actions of our political figures and demand that their actions be questioned and when they do stupid things like Weiner and any other politician R or D then we have the RIGHT and OBLIGATION to demand for their resignation. Not only have they broken the trust of their constituents they have placed the entire nation at risk by allowing their selves to be put into a position where bad actors could take advantage of them with black mail scenarios and were the politician unwilling to stand up and admit publically what they have done they would give in to those extorting them and exchange favors and secret information for the bad actor's silence. I guess I just dont see how you can stand up and say that the private actions of a politician, especially a Federal politician, is something to ignore. AGAIN, as I have said over and over, it is NOT a Dem vs Repub issue it is BOTH or ALL political parties.

In this case of Weiner... when you point to some Repub that did something similar and is still in office you dont make a very good case for your self... you only admit that two wrongs make a right......

-- Posted by mrxray on Fri, Jun 10, 2011, at 1:31 PM

LOL News... sorry but the interrogation methods in question were VETTED and approved by a bipartisan congressional committee AND THEN the rest of Congress approved them or at least were allowed to read a list of methods and had the opportunity to speak out... NONE DID at the time during Bush's admin. The Dept of Justice vetted them and confirmed that all of those methods were within the bounds of US law and the Geneva Convention rules. These methods were NEVER questioned until the Dems tried to make political points against Bush later on down the road.... AND it has come out from the Intelligence community and the military community that the waterboarding and other enhanced interrogation methods were used to obtain the names of the currier and other information that led to the discovery leading to the location of OBL. AND the initial information was gather BEFORE Obama took office. Makes you wonder how long Obama sat around and could not make a decision about taking OBL dead or alive. lol

Try again... Obama admin will only tell you what THEY want you to hear.

-- Posted by mrxray on Fri, Jun 10, 2011, at 1:21 PM

Scientific evidence does not come "from man" -- it comes from objective measurement and/or observation and is confirmed by peer review.

and yes intense.

I need a break -- writing 3 or 4 essays a day gets tiring.

be back in a week or so...bye.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jun 10, 2011, at 7:42 AM

News how come when you have no basis for your argument you say,"do you have scientifically derived evidence." Reminds me of the show are you smarter than a 5th grader. If I told you the grass was green would I need scientifically derived evidence to prove it? Why don't you just say you deny God because I don't think any amount of evidence will convince you because your God is 'scientific evidence' that comes from man and if you rely solely on that you will never know God.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Jun 10, 2011, at 7:03 AM

Uh rr -- all of your assumptions are there for the whole World to see.

You can say you didn't assume anything but that does not change the fact that you did -- such as your assumption your religious belief determines absolutely what our definition of marriage is or should be.

It doesn't.

Nor do you have one shread of scientifically derived evidence to support your claim. You just assume your religious belief to be absolute. It isn't -- its mostly a baseless assumption -- much like the many baseless and factually incorrect statements of Bachmann.

Talk with you in a week or so buddy.

Till then take care and have a good one.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jun 10, 2011, at 7:03 AM

Ok...well I have been spending a lot of time commenting here lately and its getting a bit intense for me. So I will take a break for at least a few days and concentrate on other things.

I love the comments folks -- whether I share a particular view or not, but I really need a break for now lol.

I will leave you all with what I consider to be a wonderful perfomane of a beautiful song by the Birds of Tokyo.

This particular performance was a very private performance of this song in Sydney -- I think it was Sydney but it may have been elsewhere. Anyway, I was not there, but I wished I had been...lol.

Please enjoy.

BIRDS OF TOKYO - "Circles" (Secret Show)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZf3oWyIh...

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jun 10, 2011, at 6:56 AM

No assumptions here.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Jun 10, 2011, at 6:55 AM

RR

Again you give us a list of your assumptions.

For example, you think its fair for the media to determine (1) what is a pro-Americsn view and what is an anti-American view? lol by who's standard? Bachmann's? Yours? I don't think there is an objective, precise definition of either and I don't know of anyone qualified to make such generalized judgements.

Regarding gays and marriage. We just need one law for marriage -- 2 adults -- same law, same rules, for every adult.

As to God defining marriage. You have yet to provide a single piece of scientifically derived evidence that (1) There is a God and (2) Your God is that God. Until then, there is no way we should base our laws on any religion, and may I point out that basing our laws on the word of some obscure, undefined, mythological belief is prohibited by the 1st Ammendment's provision for seperation of church and state.

Too much carbon dioxide in the atmosphere has dire consequences for global warming which leads to global cooling (the shutting down of the Atlantic Convection), a new Ice age, and kaotic weather patterns. Plants maintain a delicate, natural balance but when we are putting additional carbon dioxide into the air it disturbs that balance and creates a process of building up too much CO2 in the Atmosphere. This is well confirmed by a mountain of scientific evidence. Bachmann illustrates just how ignorant she is on this subject with her statement.

The Founding Fathers did not work tirelessly to end slavery and did not end slavery. Rather, many, if not most of them were in fact slave owners till the day they died. It took the bloodiest war in our history to end slavery and the 13th Ammendment which was not ratified until 1865 -- long after our Founding Fathers had died. Her statement is false and factually incorrect. In fact, its one of the most ignorant things she has ever said.

Lots of folks of many different persuaions -- including Mitt Romney -- want to save the planet. What is wrong with that? Given the danger posed by our contributing to global warming, it seems it would be a good idea to at least make a go at slowing it down.

No that is not what the doctors said at the time. Terri Shiavo -- they said just the opposite. Again Bachmann is operating out of pure ignorance and is making factually false statements and calling it absolute truth. In fact, the autopsy confirmed what all her doctors were saying -- she had almost no brain left. Not having a brain ensures one cannot survive long when taken off the machines that assisted her breathing as well as other functions. One would expect that a compentent Congresswomen would have at the very least checked the facts before making such a obviously false statment.

The DSM -4, Reformed, the psychological "bible" that is used by literally every psychologist and psychiatrist in the World and is developed by the very best science in the field classifies open homosexuality as normal behavior. In fact, the DSM-4, Reformed points out that since we can only define "normal" by defining "abnormal," open homosexuality has to be normal. This is because only behavior that is a direct threat to the life and well being of one's self and/or others is classified as abnormal. Homosexual relationships are no more dangerous than relationships between heterosexuals . In addition, the courts never gave the instructions she claims and never made any such ruling regarding homosexuality nor did they recommend children engage in adult relationships...straight or gay. This is another factually incorrect and false statement by Bachmann which is based in her ignorance of the subject and the facts. As to the pledge of allegience, the High Court has ruled in favor of the 1st Ammendemnt seperation of church and state. The case centered on the right of Jehova Witnesses to their religious beliefs which prohibit them from taking oaths to anyone but God. The ruling had nothing to do with homosexuality nor was such ever mentioned.

Well RR, I could go on and on with each one, but I think you can see the pattern of ignorance upon which Bachmann operates -- whether you admit such or not.

You ask if I think she is crazy and the answser is no I do not think she is crazy. In fact, I don't even know what that word means. It is not a word used in psycology or psychiatry. That word was the choice of the person who listed her ignorant claims on that website.

I do, however, think she is dumb as a brick, and I question the wisdom of putting someone so dumb in a powerful position such as a Congresswoman. What we can reasonably expect from such is garbage in -- garbage out. Her policies cannot be any more intelligent than she is, and she had demonstrated that she does not know very much at all.

For more on Bachmann's factually incorrect and misleading, false statments, you may want to have a look at what FactCheck.org has to say about her statements.

http://www.factcheck.org/tag/michele-bac...

As to her winning election in her district...well...that does not ensure that she is fit to serve. After all just look at some of the other clowns folks vote for such as Bush who had an IQ right around 97 (100 is average), paid intelligent people to take his exams for him in uni., and who never had a legitmate job in his life until he managed to get the dummies in Texas to vote him into the Office of Governor.

Our Nation is in serious trouble. Our economy is teeteing on collapse, we have shipped most of our capital (machinery) to China, we are engaged in at least 4 wars -- one of which was a "secret war" until just recently (not a secret anymore), and who knows how many other secret wars we may be engaged in, just to name a few of the problems we face. We need intelligent, competent politicians who have answers to our problems as a nation and who are of good character (which leaves out all the warmongers) if we even hope to survive much longer as the great democracy we once were.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jun 10, 2011, at 5:50 AM

Oklahoma Reader

Thanks mate...lol.

Its easy to be right when you have right on your side mate lol.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jun 10, 2011, at 2:10 AM

Well put News.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Jun 10, 2011, at 12:13 AM

rr3yv0

Actually the rich are the biggest minority.

The working class way, way, way outnumber the rich.

But I agree that neoclassical economic policy is the dominate economic theory practiced by both Republican and Democrat Presidents -- with the one exception of Clinton who used primarily Keynesian economic policies -- going all the way back to Reagan.

For most economists this is a troubling thing because all economists are aware that in order for the neoclasical economic theory to have a positive effect on the economy, one would have to be able to have a function that has multiple positive Y's (Price) for one single positive X (Quantity demanded), simultaneously, on the Cartesian Coordinate system and that is not mathmatically possible. It results in a non-function -- basically a straight vertical line (see calculus for more on this). The proponents of neoclassical economic theory won't tell you that by the way -- but they know it also. Every economist learns that when they study intermediate macro economics, calculus, and econometrics in Uni. It was neoclassical economic policies that caused the current period of deflation and there is no empirical evidence to suggest that the neoclassical approach has ever pulled our economy out of a deflationary period.

Its not surprising that most of the Rich support neoclassical economic policies via their proxies, the politicians in Congress and the White House, because rich people know the value of their money grows tremendously in deflationary periods.

Let me give you a simple example that illustrates this point.

A local Missouri Farmer, during a prosperous economic year, goes to his local bank and applies to borrow $100,000.00 in order to purchase 1 unit of land. He applies for a standard business loan which in which the principle is due in 5 years in full. The Bank owner approves the loan.

The value of the land when the Farmer purchases the land is $100,000.00 and the Bank Owner now holds a note for $100,000.00 (plus interest). As you know a note receivable is a negotiable instrument that can be bought and sold. The banker could sell the note to the highest bidder at any time he wishes. Keep that in mind as we go along.

The next year the economy falls into a deflationary period -- a recession/depression -- which is defined as a period of decreasing prices accompanied by high unemployment. The value of the 1 unit of land purchased by the farmer now has a market value of $25,000.00. However, the bank owner still holds a note worth $100,000.00 which can now purchase 4 units of land equivalent to the 1 unit land purchased by the farmer.

The bank owner's money (a negotiable instrument is regarded as money -- M-3 -- since it can be traded directly for cash) is now worth 4 times what it was worth in the good economic period when the farmer took out the commercial loan. That means the banker can now buy 400% more with each dollar he has than he could when the farmer took out the loan. The bank owner's wealth has now increased by 400%.

That is why rich people LOVE economic recession/depression. They become significantly richer without adding any additional risk. All they have to do is let the recession/depression happen and they become much richer because the purchase value of the dollar is now significantly higher but with out risk or additional tax liablility. Deflation is a rich man's ideal economy.

The rich -- such as the Rockefeller family, the Walton family, the Rothchild family, and the Koch brothers, ect., absolutely love deflationary periods, and the last thing they want to see is an increase in employment since such can bring and end to the recession/depression.

However, the average Joe becomes much poorer during these periods because he is the one who becomes unemployed, underemployed, and in the long-term, even if keeps his job or finds another job, the wages offered are far less than he would get in a healthy economy (remember our definition -- a period of decreasing prices -- including the price of labor accompanied by high unemployent). Simply put, the rich enjoy vastly increased wealth while the average Joe must learn to accept a lower standard of living.

Most politicians know dudley squat about economics. Most of them are lawyers and not economists. In addition, the rich own all the politicians they bribe with campaign funds (and other legal forms of bribery), so most the politicians use economic policies that are favored by most of the rich (neoclassical economics which ultimately cause deflation and which ensure continued deflation). You and I are not even a consideration. We don't put millions into their coffers -- the rich do -- and they know who they work for -- and its not us. So the politicians have little real incentive -- or any incentive at all -- to use economic policies that result in a healthy economy. They know elections are bought by campaign funding -- their "war chests." They know that he or she with the most campaign funds can purchase the most campaign commercials and advertisements -- which the empirical evidence overwhelming supports as being the biggest factor in winning elections. They will give a lot of lip service to jobs, but increasing employment and ending the recession/depression is the very last thing the owners of the politicians want.

We get the dirty end of the stick while the rich enjoy vastly increased wealth and much cheaper labor.

Aloe Blacc - "I Need A Dollar"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-V8EzyNt...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jun 9, 2011, at 11:05 PM

"Yes, the president should resign. He has lied to the American people... and betrayed their trust."- The 12th Congressional District hopeful Bill Clinton during the Nixon Watergate investigations.

"The purpose of government is to rein in the rights of the people" - Newly elected President Bill Clinton on MTV in 1993

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jun 9, 2011, at 10:30 PM

News you think this is crazy?

1. ''(Gay marriage) is probably the biggest issue that will impact our state and our nation in the last, at least, thirty years. I am not understating that.''

Marriage is a God given institution and to believe otherwise is detrimental to our moral structure.

3. ''I wish the American media would take a great look at the views of the people in Congress and find out: Are they pro-America or anti-America?''

Sounds like a fair question what are you news?

5. ''Carbon dioxide is portrayed as harmful. But there isn't even one study that can be produced that shows that carbon dioxide is a harmful gas.''

Plants love the stuff.

6. "But we also know that the very founders that wrote those documents [The Constitution) worked tirelessly until slavery was no more in the United States.

At the time we had slavery it was ok for that culture did everybody agree? No What is so different about slavery then what we agree or disagree about now?

9. ''[Pelosi] is committed to her global warming fanaticism to the point where she has said she has even said she is trying to save the planet. We all know that someone did that 2,000 years ago.''

The first part of that statement is true all liberal think it is there job to save the planet.

10. ''A woman (Terri Schiavo) was healthy. There was brain damage, there was no question. But from a health point of view, she was not terminally ill.''

That's what some doctors said at the time but I'm not a doctor.

12. "Unelected bureaucracies will decide what we can and cant get in future health insurance policy. Thats why theyre called death panels.

We can see that coming in Obamacare.

15. ''And what a bizarre time we're in, when a judge will say to little children that you can't say the pledge of allegiance, but you must learn that homosexuality is normal and you should try it.''

That is true we stand a better chance to teach why homosexuality is normal then keeping the pledge of allegiance especially the under God part.

18. ''If we took away the minimum wage -- if conceivably it was gone -- we could potentially virtually wipe out unemployment completely because we would be able to offer jobs at whatever level.''

This is true plain and simple.

21. ''There are hundreds and hundreds of scientists, many of them holding Nobel Prizes, who believe in intelligent design.''

I don't know about hundreds but there are some. Well I am sure you could look them up if you want.

22. ''I don't know where they're going to get all this money because we're running out of rich people in this country.''

That's why the working class is getting less and less.

25. ''I find it interesting that it was back in the 1970s that the swine flu broke out under another, then under another Democrat president, Jimmy Carter. I'm not blaming this on President Obama, I just think it's an interesting coincidence.''

Not enough details to answer.

29. "Carbon dioxide is natural, it is not harmful, it is a part of Earth's lifecycle. And yet we're being told that we have to reduce this natural substance, reduce the American standard of living, to create an arbitrary reduction in something that is naturally occuring in Earth."

They want to make it a currency or commodity so it will have worth. It's not about carbon dioxide it is about control.

30. "The President of the United States will be taking a trip over to India that is expected to cost the taxpayers $200 million a day."

I heard that.

31. "I just take the Bible for what it is, I guess, and recognize that I am not a scientist, not trained to be a scientist. I'm not a deep thinker on all of this. I wish I was. I wish I was more knowledgeable, but I'm not a scientist."

Not sure on that one.

I agree our nation is in trouble but these statement are no crazier than these.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news...

This one really take the cake.

http://www.rateitall.com/t-19883-democra...

And someone still votes for these kind of people. All the more reason that character does matter look what we get when it doesn't.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jun 9, 2011, at 9:45 PM

News I agree with getting the dummies out of Congress but who do we put in and how do we get them there? People think that they are helpless against the government machine and frankly I don't think we will see an uprising until the government runs out of handouts. The working class is quickly becoming a minority.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jun 9, 2011, at 9:02 PM

"The 10 Craziest Michele Bachmann Quotes"

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/the-10-cr...

"The Ultimate Collection Of Bad Michele Bachmann Quotes"

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/the-ultim...

1. ''(Gay marriage) is probably the biggest issue that will impact our state and our nation in the last, at least, thirty years. I am not understating that.''

3. ''I wish the American media would take a great look at the views of the people in Congress and find out: Are they pro-America or anti-America?''

5. ''Carbon dioxide is portrayed as harmful. But there isn't even one study that can be produced that shows that carbon dioxide is a harmful gas.''

6. "But we also know that the very founders that wrote those documents [The Constitution) worked tirelessly until slavery was no more in the United States.

9. ''[Pelosi] is committed to her global warming fanaticism to the point where she has said she has even said she is trying to save the planet. We all know that someone did that 2,000 years ago.''

10. ''A woman (Terri Schiavo) was healthy. There was brain damage, there was no question. But from a health point of view, she was not terminally ill.''

12. "Unelected bureaucracies will decide what we can and cant get in future health insurance policy. Thats why theyre called death panels.

15. ''And what a bizarre time we're in, when a judge will say to little children that you can't say the pledge of allegiance, but you must learn that homosexuality is normal and you should try it.''

18. ''If we took away the minimum wage -- if conceivably it was gone -- we could potentially virtually wipe out unemployment completely because we would be able to offer jobs at whatever level.''

21. ''There are hundreds and hundreds of scientists, many of them holding Nobel Prizes, who believe in intelligent design.''

22. ''I don't know where they're going to get all this money because we're running out of rich people in this country.''

25. ''I find it interesting that it was back in the 1970s that the swine flu broke out under another, then under another Democrat president, Jimmy Carter. I'm not blaming this on President Obama, I just think it's an interesting coincidence.''

29. "Carbon dioxide is natural, it is not harmful, it is a part of Earth's lifecycle. And yet we're being told that we have to reduce this natural substance, reduce the American standard of living, to create an arbitrary reduction in something that is naturally occuring in Earth."

30. "The President of the United States will be taking a trip over to India that is expected to cost the taxpayers $200 million a day."

31. "I just take the Bible for what it is, I guess, and recognize that I am not a scientist, not trained to be a scientist. I'm not a deep thinker on all of this. I wish I was. I wish I was more knowledgeable, but I'm not a scientist."

Our Nation is in deep trouble. Having dummies in Congress will not save us.

Garbage in -- garbage out.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jun 9, 2011, at 8:59 PM

"What have I or those I represent to do with your national independence? Are the great principles of political freedom and of natural justice, embodied in that Declaration of Independence, extended to us? And am I, therefore, called upon to bring our humble offering to the national altar, and to confess the benefits, and express devout gratitude for the blessings resulting from your independence to us?"

Fredrick Douglas

"The Hypocrisy of American Slavery"

http://www.historyplace.com/speeches/dou...

I guess Backmann forgot about Mr. Douglass and all the other African slaves forced by kidnapping into slavery, forced to toil 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year, for their entire life for their White owners, forced to submit to rape, forced to forfeit life and limb so the White owners could get rich on the backs of these kidnapped human beings.

But I would bet in fact she never knew anything about the history of slavery -- and very little else of American history.

We don't need dummies like her in Congress.

Its time to get the dummies out of Congress and replace them with people who actually do know something.

Garbage in - garbage out...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jun 9, 2011, at 8:06 PM

inthemiddle,

This note's for you mate.

Enjoy!

"Neil Young - Southern Man"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVRxdPWV3...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jun 9, 2011, at 7:47 PM

inthemiddle

Please spare me your defense of human slavery.

Slavery was wrong then and its wrong now.

No human can own another human being.

And no Africans volunteered to be enslaved for their entire life giving up their right to life, liberty, and freedom -- none -- zip -- zero.

Bachmann was full of bunk in her statement -- which also excluded Mexican Americans who had no choice but to become Americans when we stole half their country and the native Americans who came her 14,000 years ago seeking nothing more than food in the form of wild game.

She was completely wrong in her statement and she is a good example of exactly the wrong kind of person to have in Congress.

After all, if you owned a company you would not hire a dummy to run it -- you would want the best, most intelligent candidate for the job with the best track record of success. You would not want to risk your profit and income in the hands of someone who has a demonstrated lack of knowledge and low critical analysis skills.

So why on Earth would anyone want someone like that making important National policy decisions?

We need to get the dummies out of our Government because as most folks know, dummies are only capable of inferrior dumb policies. Garbage in -- garbage out.

Bachman and other like her may account for the current movenment of our Government towards fascism and the substantial loss of liberty that comes with it.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jun 9, 2011, at 6:50 PM

What the f......

Oh yes I agree 100% mate.

I am aware of how the war on cannibus began -- it was an act of racism.

How sad so many racist are still out there.

Will they never grow up?

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jun 9, 2011, at 6:13 PM

inthemiddle

and your point about the tea is?

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jun 9, 2011, at 6:10 PM

News,

It's illegal because it would cut into the profits of big Pharma and that won't do. If people knew the real reason pot was criminalized in the first place they might think differently about it.

I'm not ashamed to admit that I know from experience.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Jun 9, 2011, at 5:21 PM

Actually newsacross, early in the period of African slavery, there were some examples of volunteers, although they were very few and far between. Slavery as it exsisted in Africa was different than in America. (Slaves could own property or even refuse to be sold) A few of the early slaves were more indentured servants and were given freedom after a certain number of years. There was debate over this in the very early colonial years. Sadly, we know how the debate ended.

-- Posted by inthemiddle on Thu, Jun 9, 2011, at 5:00 PM

Why was the British Tea cheaper? The answer to that was that the Tea Act placed a tax on all tea from any company that wasn't the East India Company. King George III was one of the owners of the East India Co.. Not only did the Americans resent the method of taxation, they also resented the fact that the government was trying to force them to purchase a product from one provider ending competition.

Washington, Adams, Revere and other founding fathers were upset with the Boston Tea Party. Several even petitioned to get compensation for the destroyed tea. Most of the Founding Fathers were middle class property owners who respected property rights, were concerned about the dangers of democracy or "mobocracy" as many refered to it, but demanded political rights that the Renaissance, Reformation, and Enlightenment had introduced introduced.

-- Posted by inthemiddle on Thu, Jun 9, 2011, at 4:51 PM

OKR,

I have never understood how anyone could think they can legitimately make a plant illegal.

I guess its just a matter of time before they slap the cuffs on Mother Nature herself.

Its time our Nation grows up and legalizes this plant which is currently the largest cash crop in the USA -- despite the fact that its unlawful to grow it.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jun 9, 2011, at 5:24 AM

OKR,

Here is an interesting fact about the Boston Tea party a lot of folks don't know.

Sammual Adams and many of our Founding Fathers engaged in the sale of illegal black market tea.

The reason for the Boston Tea Party was not some patriotic act of defiance, rather it was the act of illegal black market tea dealers upset that even with the tax on legal British tea, the legal tea was much cheaper than the black market tea. The idea was to prevent the legal and cheaper British tea from entering colonial ports.

I picked that little tidbit up from one of my professors in Uni. lol...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jun 9, 2011, at 5:19 AM

Here is an opportunity to rotflyao at Palin. Millions found this hilarious, some thought it disgusting, others thought it stupid.

Guaranteed that many have not seen it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmH6oXE77...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jun 8, 2011, at 11:56 PM

Somebody tell the current "Tea Party" that Washington, and Franklin opposed the Boston Tea Party. http://www.pensitoreview.com/2011/06/08/...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jun 8, 2011, at 11:49 PM

rr3 you do want this Republican from Ohio thrown out of the House of Representatives right? He was just convicted of having sex with a sixteen year old girl. He refuses to resign, and says he will run again when his term is over.

I wonder if he will get as much air time as the Weiner weiner caper?

http://www.nytimes.com/1989/05/27/us/ohi...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jun 8, 2011, at 11:29 PM

Here is another dirty little secret. Meet your new pot dealers, the big pharmaceutical companies. It was just a matter of time. http://www.salem-news.com/articles/june0...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jun 8, 2011, at 11:16 PM

Well we are now involved in at least four wars, and counting. Have we gone nuts or what? We are fighting in Yemen. I do believe that Obama has established the nation's record for the most wars fought by our nation at one time.

How many even knew we are fighting in Yemen? How long will it be before we are fighting in every country in the middle east? We can not sustain this madness, and survive as a nation. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/09/world/...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jun 8, 2011, at 10:49 PM

OKR

You really hit the nail on the head with that comment regarding the medical care access problem in the USA.

Its one of the many problems of neoclassical guided capitalism.

I don't know when Americans will wake up and stop electing the dummies who want to deny them equal and affordable medical care access, but I do know that capitalism has a definate end point.

As the lessons of Easter Island demonstrate, our resources are limited and increasing populations means an increasing rate of use of natural resources. We know from empirical evidence that overpopulation eventually causes complete collapse of the economic system. We know from a mountain of scientific evidence that nature will reverse overpopulation. Eventually whether we like it or not, population will decrease dramatically World wide.

Since capitalist economies are driven by increasing consumption of resources, we know that decreasing consumption ultimately causes capitalist systems to collapse. A capitalist economic system cannot sustain decreasing consumption and is particularly sensitive to large decreases of consumption. So we know that capitalism will eventually collapse when nature forces large reductions in population (such as the long-term effects of global warming which leads ultimately to a shut down of the Atlantic Convection which causes global cooling -- a new Ice Age).

One would hope we would elect intelligent politicians, rather than intellectually incompetant politicians we see so prominently on the conservative side of the poltical aisle, and enact real solutions to the problems rather than the dummies who insist the system is just fine despite the factual evidence to the contrary. But no matter what we do one thing is for sure, nature will eventually react to our overpopulation and dramatically reduce our population and the current guided system of capitalism will completely collapse.

When we input dummies into the system, we get back dumb policies. Simply put, garbage in, garbage out.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Jun 8, 2011, at 6:59 PM

RR

I read your list of assumptions.

I know of no evidence to support your thesis.

As to the Soviet satellites, why are you surprised the satellite nations had Stalinist governments considering they were liberated by the Soviets?

After all, our European satellites adopted capitalist systems very similar to ours which is no surprise because we were the ones that liberated them.

Stalinism -- a dictatorship with a socialist economy -- was the result of one guy hijacking control of the ruling political party after the untimely death of the great Russian hero of the workers revolution, Vladimir Lenin, and imposing his (Stalin's) will with an iron fist.

Stalinism certainly is not a good form of socialism because it lacked true democracy and the country was controlled by a dictator. That had nothing to do with economics and everything to do with politics.

In no way was I defending Stalinism and not too many modern socialists would want to live under anything but a democratic government.

However, the Soviets certainly were not fascists no matter how much lipstick you may try to put on that pig.

Nice try though.

But I noticed you didn't mention the most important aspect of my comment -- all 14 defining chracteristics exist in significant levels in the USA.

This would indicate the United States is indeed on the road towards fascism (to say the least) and with strong support for fascism on the conservative side of the political aisle.

It is sad but true that the dummies are in charge of our House of Representives now and these same dummies are determined to expand American fascism (politicians with low IQs and a demonstrated lack of factual knowledge -- such as Bachman who thinks African's volunteered to come to America to serve as personal property of white Americans --white slave owners with full rights to kill and rape the Africans if they so wished since they were legally regarded as the property of their white "owners" and who says she believes slavery was a "better way of life" that the African's were seeking and was the motivation for their voluntarily coming to America to become slaves).

When we put dummies in charge of our Government, we should not be surprised when we look and find we now share the same common characteristics of every single confirmed fascist country such as NAZI Germany, Mussolini Italy, Franco Spain, and Pinoche Chili.

Maybe its time we stop electing dummies to run our government and start electing intelligent people who believe in Democracy, support our cherished American traditions, and respect the rule of law.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Jun 8, 2011, at 6:20 PM

Is greed killing cancer patients, or is it it just a bothersome side effect of capitalistic control of medicine? Should we do anything about the problem? What? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/07...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jun 8, 2011, at 3:32 PM

Newsacross

Sorry but your history is maybe selective.

1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism

Communist Nations are not dedicated to nations. They are dedicated to socialism -- World Wide socialism. In fact, Karl Marx model predicts a World without national boundries under socialism.

I am sure the Latvians, Jews, Lithuanianas, Kazahaks, and the over 100 other nationalitiesw who were forced to give up their culture for Russian culture would disagree and when Marx supportecd imperialism was it to embrace native culture? No it was European culture i.e. our culture is superior (a form of nationalism)And the reason Facists (national socialists) opposed communism (international socialism) was for this reason.

5. Rampant sexism

In fact, the Soviets outlawed sexism with serious consequences for the offender. In addition, the Soviet Union was the first European nation to give full equal rights to women and to make every job position in the Soviet Union equally accessible to both men and women. Perhaps the most telling aspect of this was the woman many consider to be the greatest hero of WWII -- Lyudmila Pavlichenko -- who was a sharpshooter of the Red Army who killed over 300 fascists -- including many of the fascist's best sharpshooters.

All sounds good on paper, however sexism still remained. No racism in the USA because our Declaration of Independence says "all men are created equal." Yes women have played a significant part of communim, but women who live under the system will tell you that men still have preference. Remember Nicolae Ceausescu? His policies in Romania were hardly feminism in action.

8. Religion and ruling elite tied together

The soviets had no religion nor did they ever tie religion to the government.

Sorry, the religion of the Soviet Union was the worship of the state. Much like Hitler's attempts to replace Christianity with the worship of Hitler. All one has to do is to looki at Stalin and his imagery and the role of "Mother Russia" to see the Russians had state religion. Communists, like Hitler used religion when it suited their needs.

9. Power of corporations protected

There were no corporations in the Soviet Union.

Not officially, however after the Revolution when the economy proved too complex to direct, former leaders of corporations, who supported Lenin/Stalin/etc., were brought back for their expertise and put into political positions. Some were never out of power. Of course the state also became the new corporation. That becomes the problem on nationalization of any industry. Competition threatens state revenues, so competition must not exsist. (As the right-leaning posters will tell you, look at how the Obama administration allows exemptions for corps that support the administration.)

10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated

The Soviets and all communist nations glorified labor. Communism is all about the rights of the worker.

Unless the needs of the workers is in conflict with the state - then the workers lose. Military build-up and the arms race always took precedent over the rights of the workers.

11. Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts

The Soviets fully funded state Universities and the arts. This is one of the reasons so many great authors, painters, and musicians (particularly violinists) were able to develop their arts under the Soviets and would account for the large number of artists who thrived under the Soviet Union.

Again, only the intellectuals and artists who towed the party line were given freedom. Are you familiar with Alexander Solzhenitsyn or Boris Pasternak? The Soviet Brain Drain was why the Berlin Wall was built in 1961. Or are we to guess that intellectuals and artists are only politically left-wing?

-- Posted by inthemiddle on Wed, Jun 8, 2011, at 1:40 PM

Aussie Wife and News it amazes me that anyone would not think that telling the truth would not be a moral activity. Was it not immoral to send these kind of pictures to women other than your wife? What would you do if it was your spouse doing this? I think our public servants should be held to a higher standard and when they do screw they should have the fortitude to step down. I mean as parents aren't we held to a higher standard as an example to our children? It should be the same for public office. Now I know they are regular men and women but they put themselves in the public light and subject themselves to public scrutiny. We the public should hold our officials accountable for their actions. You are right I don't have the right to judge except to what the bible says, but when you deny God and the bible it is hard to maintain a moral standard. How do we expect our children to have moral standards when we don't stand for any?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jun 8, 2011, at 10:48 AM

rr, it surprises me that this is even an issue. There are far more important issues to deal with. It seems to me that any issue involving a private life (especially if it involves a certain amount of titillation for the audience)takes on the importance of a life and death event. Meanwhile the economy, the environment and the wars take a backward step in the consciousness of the people. As far as 'ethics' is concerned, if there has been no ethics investigation of why we ever invaded Iraq (and yes that includes Australia) then having an 'ethics investigation' of this situation is a gross example of the waste of taxpayers money and the height of hypocritical hubris. Those calling for it should be ashamed of themselves.

-- Posted by aussie wife on Wed, Jun 8, 2011, at 8:08 AM

RR

What makes you think you have the right to judge anyone from a moral standpoint?

What makes you think you have the moral standing to make such judgments considering your own moral failings?

I don't think either should resign because they may or may not have made some personal, private error in their private life. After all they are no more and no less human than you and me.

Its one thing to say that a politician who lies to his constiuents the way Weiner and Bush have done should resign. That is based on the issue of trust -- not on morality.

But it is an entirely different matter when we make such an assertion based on our own personal code of morality -- especially when we have so many moral infractions -- infractions of the morals we preach -- in our own lives.

May I suggest that anyone who wants to claim the moral highground first prove that their morals are absolute and they they also prove they have never transgressed that moral code themselves.

Simply put, you have no right to judge Weiner or Vitter based on your own illusion of moral superiority because no such superiority exists.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Jun 8, 2011, at 7:56 AM

Aussie wife I think that both of them should be out of government. Does one that gets away with it justify another getting away with it? If that would be the case then why would we need an ethics investigation?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jun 8, 2011, at 6:13 AM

"Bill O'reilly's Sexual harassment lawsuit"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqf1rFoAD...

...and this guy wants to judge Weiner from a moral standpoint?

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Jun 8, 2011, at 5:25 AM

"GOP running fake Democrats in Wisconsin recall elections"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/06/07/go...

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Jun 8, 2011, at 5:18 AM

"Conservatives spam Detroit with fake eviction notices"

http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/0...

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Jun 8, 2011, at 5:16 AM

I have only two words to say about the Weiner affair - David Vitter, Republican US Senator from Louisana. He is still in government despite admitting going to prostitutes. So unless you are proud of being a hypocrite might I suggest this gossipy non issue be dispensed with.

-- Posted by aussie wife on Wed, Jun 8, 2011, at 4:31 AM

mrxray

The Obama Administration says that torture played no part in the assassination of Bin-Laden -- also an illegal and immoral act.

As to your claim that the ends justify the means, that is the opposite of what most Americans have been taught by their parents.

Using your analogy, it would be reasonable and justified for one baseball team to cheat in order to win the game -- after all your claim holds that only the end matters -- not how you play the game. I reject that notion as do most Americans.

Torture is illegal and immoral. It violates the Geneva Conventions and it violates U.S. Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 118 -- which is a serious Federal crime.

In your mind it may be fine to commit crimes and immoral acts as long as you get what you want, but We the People have already made the crime you support punishable by a mminimum of 5 years to life in Federal Prison and punishable by the death penalty in cases that result in the death of the prisoner.

Again, you cannot justifiably condem a fella for sending a private photo to friends when you yourself have been a party to high crimes as you and millions of other Americans are -- even if you commit the crime by proxy. If you support torture, you own it and consequently you have no moral highground upon which to judge anyone and your support for high crimes makes it clear you are not fit to judge Mr. Weiner.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Jun 8, 2011, at 4:06 AM

News I agree, stop the hypocrisy... I love how the hypocrisy, according to you, is only on the right... lol

Personally, I like the methods of enhanced interrogation.... seems like it worked in locating OBL and it worked to stop major attacks on the US... AND Dems voted for and were informed of these tactics and NEVER ONCE complained until after Bush was on the way out..... lol

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Jun 8, 2011, at 12:59 AM

OKR. I dont specifically remember about Ensign nor comments on here regarding. BUT if you recall the AZ shooting many of you liberal wackos parroted the talking heads the the DISHONEST sherrif of Pima County accusing Sarah Palin for causing this shooting when the facts proved this was totally false.

I also remember that most of you are really quick to jump on anything that you consider "bad" by One or two people in a gathering of conservatives and instead of looking objectively at the situation and realizing that ALL groups might have a bad actor or two you automatically jump in and cry about how the WHOLE conservative movement or the entire tea party movement is racist or what have you. Not only that, you totally ignore the information that comes out that shows that often the racist comments or violent statements or other bad actions and comments are conducted by SEIU and other agents of the left in pathetic attempts at creating the appearance of racism and ect from those with whom you politically disagree.

Now I know there will be denials and blah blah. And I refuse to spend the amount of time on here that it would require to research people's comments to support what I am saying..... but the fact remains.

Personally, if you cannot keep it in your pants and you are so addicted to the Power of the office or of politics that you think you are somehow above ethics and morals and you have free reign to post naked pictures or sext or have phone sex with strangers then you have NO RIGHT to be in any elected office. With being elected there is a certain obligation you have to the citizens of the US and one of those is to not think yourself above the law. You are a role model and are supposed to be elected to an office that provides stability for our nation, economicall, socially and etc. In fact, the ONLY thing that our economy is based on, since eliminating the gold and silver standards, is our "faith" in our elected body... Congress. For how many years has our faith in Congress been at 20% more or less?

Our politicians, Rs and Ds, have learned NOTHING from Nixon or Clinton and have learned everything from Rangle. What we have is a environment of ALL elected personnel being above the law that and that they do not have to abide by the same rules that us common folk do. Instead, when they get caught they think that if the cry on camera and apologize and make statments like, "I take full responsibility" that these type of actions make everything alright. I am sorry, but elected officials do NOT put their pants on any different than I do and should not get ANY special consideration.

It is NO different than Baseball and its era of Steroids. We should have a No tolerance policy in our political arena and there should not be ANY questions asked once proven that a politician violated moral, ethical, or legal boundaries. This should apply to appointees or presidential czars that bypass congressional approval.

Until BOTH parties start getting serious about policing the behavior of their elected officials, NO trust will be re-established.

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Jun 8, 2011, at 12:56 AM

News... so flashing your private parts to other people, NOT friends but people you DO NOT know on facebook or twitter or other social media is MORAL behavior?

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Jun 8, 2011, at 12:42 AM

Oh and sorry for the mispellings in my last comment.

I was typing fast and angry at all the pots calling the kettle black and I did not do any proof reading as one might normally expect lol.

The spellings are bad

The sending of a lude photo by a Congressman to his friends might be wrong.

But the butcher and rape of over a million innocent civilians in two 3rd World countries that never attacked us and never had the military capacity to attack us are much worse crimes...much, much worse.

And before you conservatives out there start crying that you were not personally responsible for the crimes committed against humanity by the United States remember this...

Charlie Manson never committed the LaBianca or Tate murders. He never even met any of them. No one, including the prosectutor ever said Charlie was even present during the murders. He just convinced some other folks to do it.

Does that make Charlie innocent?

Or do you think it makes him just as bad as the ones who committed the acts?

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jun 7, 2011, at 10:52 PM

TO THOSE WHO ARE CLAIMING SOME IMAGINED, LUDACRIS MORAL RIGHT TO CONDEMN A CONGRESSMAN FOR SENDING A PRIVATE PHOTO TO A PRIVATE FRIEND, PLEASE CONSIDER YOUR OWN HYPOCISY.

When the same folks who cheer on torture of prisoners, invasions of 3rd World countries who never attacked us and never even had the capacity to attack us, genocide of Iraqi innocents including the murdering of over 550,000 Iraqi women and children, spying on Americans with out a warrant, ect, want to condemn a congressman for sending a personal photo to a personal friend, please be sure clean up your own back yard and right the wrongs you have wrought upon the World, before you start judging anyone for anything.

Clean up your own backyard before you start worrying about Mr. Weiner's backyard.

Stop the hypocrisy!

Stop the wars!

Stop worrying about some congressman sending a private photo to a private friend and start worrying about your own crimes against the People!

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jun 7, 2011, at 9:58 PM

"Well I'll be!" Okr you didn't miss it. I'm right proud of you.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Jun 7, 2011, at 9:29 PM

Things like this should transcend party lines.

Discretion should be the better part of valor. If he has no more sense than that I don't think I want him making national policy.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Jun 7, 2011, at 8:19 PM

However,

In my opinion it is immoral to support the wars in Iraq and Afgahnistan and anyone who does support American empire building is a person of low moral character.

In my opinion torturing prisoners is immoral (and also illegal) and anyone who supports torture is a person of low moral character.

In my opinion, the "Ayn Rand" budget, which strips our parents, grandparents, and us of our medicare needs and which leaves unemployed workers with few, if any, job programs, few choices, and very little hope, that is being put forward by the Republican's in the House is immoral and anyone who supports it is a person of low moral character.

Those are just a few of the truely immoral things going on -- and all supported by conservatives.

That harmless photo sent by Weiner to his friend is nothing compared to the attrocities committed by and supported by conservatives in America.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jun 7, 2011, at 5:32 PM

rr3yv0

In my opinion, there was nothing immoral about Weiner sending that photo to his friends. That is his own business.

I do think his lying was a bad idea.

And that brings me to my point.

1.) only conservatives seem to think the photo was "immoral."

2.) conservatives would not vote for Weiner anyway.

3.) conservative voters opinion of the photo don't mean doodly squat -- conservatives in his district are a small minority -- they don't matter.

4.) Weinder's only mistake was in not telling the media and conservatives to stick their opinion's where the sun does not shine and move on. Instead, he lied about it, and the lie is what got him trouble.

If I had been in Weiner's shoes, I would have refused to comment on any personal matters, I would have said if conservatives don't like that then too bad -- end of story.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jun 7, 2011, at 5:22 PM

rr3 you said, "Okr you can't blame the mainstream media for reporting on the sexual adventures of a politician if they made it public."

I don't blame them for reporting it rr3, I blame them for dwelling on it ad nauseam, at the expense of more important news. I blame them for their non stop effort to titillate their audience with garbage such as Weiner weiner.

I am mindful that they would say "we" demand it. Maybe so. I am also mindful of the old Pogo poster stating we have met the enemy, and it is us, or something to that effect.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Jun 7, 2011, at 4:59 PM

By the way rr3, I don't find anywhere that Barney Frank has even been charged, nor even accused of improper sexual conduct. He has been accused of trying to get jobs for those with whom he has been intimate, but that doesn't make the sexual conduct unethical, just possibly the aftermath. Would you mind being more explicit regarding that charge of improper sexual conduct?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Jun 7, 2011, at 4:47 PM

"Well I'll be!" That's all I can say rr3 about Barney Frank's cite for an ethics violation over twenty years ago. I guess that elephants do have long memories.

Am I missing any more regarding him being chastised for ethics violations by an unfavorable vote of the House of Representatives, or elsewhere?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Jun 7, 2011, at 4:37 PM

Jo I would have to agree with you when Clinton was in office the media tried to tell us that character didn't matter. I think it does.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Jun 7, 2011, at 2:17 PM

Okr you can't blame the mainstream media for reporting on the sexual adventures of a politician if they made it public. As for Frank ethics violations are not confined to sexual misconduct.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Jun 7, 2011, at 2:14 PM

But that didn't address your primary question rr3. I am with you concerning those who commit actual crimes, and breaches of ethics that directly effect our country. Throw the rascals out.

I, because of my libertarian values, think it none of our darn business as to the sexual adventures of our politicians, any more than it is my business to know what you do in private. What goes on between consenting adults in their private life should remain private. In some cases, such as that of a Senator tapping his foot to attract attention from a man in another bath room stall, a line is crossed. You do not do that stuff in public, it is against the law. More to the point, he chose to step over the privacy boundary, and attempted to engage in public sexual behavior, waiving his right of privacy.

The social moron Weiner, (has anyone ever indicated so indelibly, confirmation of the effect one's name has on one's behavior?) is in a middle ground wherein in one sense his act was apparently intended to be private, but the idiot should have known that there is no guarantee of private communication on the internet. Result: he is the country's laughingstock, which is a harsh punishment for an aspiring young politician. I could hardly refrain from expressing my satirical wit on this blog concernig the story. It is a perfect storm for satirists. I chose not to do so, not because he is a member of the left, but because the thoughts that occured to me would not have, and should not have, passed muster with Eric.

The case of Senator Ensign on the other hand was a full of undercover machinations, such as paying his mistresse's husband from political funds, other Senators involved in pay offs, on, and on. It is closer to the John Edwards case, and should be brought to trial, just as the Edward's case has been. We shall see what happens.

Frankly I am sick of the mainstream media sticking their noses into the sexual adventures of politicians.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Jun 7, 2011, at 12:52 PM

Personally, i think we wouldn't have a Government,if they would Investigate every person that ran for Office! Character is almost out of style!

-- Posted by Jo on Tue, Jun 7, 2011, at 12:50 PM

Just curious rr3, what was it that Barney Frank did? I must have missed that one.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Jun 7, 2011, at 11:48 AM

Yes okr I did notice but if you had noticed that wasn't the object of my question. In my opinion anyone in public office that is caught lying or committing an immoral act should resign either willfully or be forced to. I know it doesn't happen all the time. If the Democrats don't call for his resignation what will they do the next time. It also doesn't matter to me the party affiliation he should lead by example and resign. Pelosi may have only called the investigation to make her and the Dems look good but we will see. I mean we have examples of Clinton, Rangel, Frank and I am sure others Dem or Repub that didn't do the right thing. Where do we start to make it right? or do we let it be the status quo?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Jun 7, 2011, at 11:36 AM

Here we go X ray. ;) You said:

"I am waiting for you lefties to get on the bandwagon demanding that Weiner resign or be fired... yet I have not read ANYTHING so far BUT were it to be a Republican you would be dancing in the aisle and screaming for his head and using one person as an example that you put forth indicating the entire right side of the political aisle."

Not so. You will recall the recent news regarding Republican Senator Ensign. I do not recall one word written by the left on these blogs regarding his regretful behavior. Come to think of it I didn't see one chastising word from the right, even though he thumbed his nose at Christian rules of comportment, which many posters on the right believe more important than political errancy.

Recent history on the blog supports the opposite of your declaration. I suppose you may point your finger, and say there you go bashing the right again. No, I have merely given my opinion based on my observations of blog content.

Your turn.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Jun 7, 2011, at 10:44 AM

rr3 did you notice that Nancy Pelosi has demanded an investigation of Weiner?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Jun 7, 2011, at 9:43 AM

Ya know RR,

it kinda reminds me of something important my Dad taught me a long time ago.

When I was a child I learned, like all children do, that lying is wrong and has consequences.

My Dad could probably have spanked the lesson of why we should not lie into me lol...but he didn't.

After catching me in a lie when I was a young child he just looked at me and said, "there is no reason to lie to a person. If you don't want to answer a question, just say so and don't answer it. Its that simple."

I have carried that imporant lesson with me through out my life.

And Weiner's life might be going in a different direction right now if his Dad had taught him that same lesson.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jun 7, 2011, at 8:43 AM

rr3yv0

I am happy you asked me that.

I think he should resign for lying to his constituents and the Nation.

It appears he made the same mistake Clinton did...he lied.

It would would be nice to see democrats grow a pair and learn to say "my personal life is none of your business and I won't discuss my personal life with the press."

That would have been the end of it.

But no, Weiner had to lie instead.

That was flat out stupid.

He should have just said "yeah I sent it, and she seemed to like it...and after all, I am a normal human being just like the rest of you." Beyond that he should have refused to discuss his personal, romantic life with anyone.

I expect that he will be resigning any time now. If he had grown a pair and told the press to stick it where the sun doesn't shine BEFORE he decided to deny it instead, he would not be sitting in the stew he is in now.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jun 7, 2011, at 8:35 AM

Lol Eric...

Sorry mate...my bad.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jun 7, 2011, at 8:29 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
No problem!

Speaking of ethics News what is your take on Congressman Weiner? Should he resign? Should he stay?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Jun 7, 2011, at 6:14 AM

"Catholic confronts Rep. Paul Ryan over 'Ayn Rand budget' at religious conference"

http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/0...

This constituent of Republican Paul "No more medicare for you" Ryan a perfectly reasonable question and Ryan ignored it.

And this is a perfectly reasonable article (with video) about the incident by a news organization (Raw Story) that is well respected and holds a seat in the Washington Press Core -- a real news organization.

Delete this one again Eric and you and I will go back to a public discussion about editorial ethics.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jun 7, 2011, at 4:32 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
I did not delete any previous version of this comment. It's still available, in fact. You're welcome to talk about editorial ethics any time you like as long as the comments comply with our posting policy.

On a separate, more serious note...

I just got back from Joplin. I spent about 4 days down there. I had seen pictures and videos and read articles and listened to interviews and stories during news shows prior to getting to Joplin. NOTHING can prepare you for what that town looks like in real life.

My sister lives there with her husband and two kids. They decided to go camping in OK. the night of the tornado or they would have been inside the building on St John's Hospital's property, a place called Stained Glass Theatre. This is where young people perform plays and are sponsored by Churches in town. They had just gotten through with the play and they were tearing down the set when the sirens sounded. There is nothing left of the building, it even cracked the foundation.

If you saw pictures of people hauling injured people in the back of a pickup and sitting in the back of the pickup was a young man with a bright red shirt on, this was the guy who saved my nephews best friends life. Another of my nephews friends worked in the Caterpillar building after business hours and when the siren sounded he went into the mens bathroom and when the tornado passed he opened the door and the mens room was the only thing standing.... not even the womens room was there.

The stories I heard from people who survived this tornado were sad and amazing and scary. There were many many stories of heroic actions and sad stories of those who lost loved ones.

If you look at a map of Joplin the path of the tornado was 11 miles long, from outside the western city limits to the eastern city limits of Joplin and through the town of Duquesne that sits beside Joplin. The path was about 8 blocks wide give or take. When you enter the area where the destruction took place it is unimaginable that ANYONE survived. Somone stated that it looked like a God sized bulldozer plowed through town. It looked like someone took all the toothpicks in the world and dumped them along the middle of Joplin. The scary part was that if the tornado would have been 2-3 blocks farther south BOTH big hospitals would have been demolished and many many people would have died.

I talked with FEMA, Red Cross, Salvation Army, Samaritan's Purse personnel and other groups while we were out helping people and over and over we heard that they had never seen a town and state and area come together and respond to a disaster and help their neighbors and town with such overwelming numbers of people and donations. Many stated that they have been to many other disaster areas and many places the people just sat and waited for the government to hand them a check and for the government and other agencies to come in and rebuild. The response from citizens of Joplin and the areas around the nation were in such large numbers that the FEMA and Red Cross people just had to give up trying to control access to the affected areas. They were very impressed with the willingness of people to solve the problems of their own community.

On a side note... I learned something. When FEMA gets involved and a federal disaster area has been proclaimed, the community is financially on the hook for 10% of the cost to search and rescue, clean up and rebuild. So if it costs 100 Billion then the City of Joplin has to come up with 10 percent of that. However, to help offset this amount owed by the city, they get credit for every volunteer hour officially logged in. So while I was down there every hour I worked gave the city of Joplin or Duquesne a credit towards the 10% that they will owe. As of last Friday, I think, there were over 55,000 volunteer hours and that was not a final tally but a rough estimate since there were SO many places accepting volunteers and organizing them to go out and help people or to help sort clothing or food or other necessities to give out to those affected.

That was the other thing that was so impressive. I volunteered at a couple of churches and the first weekend after the tornado this one church had 2000+ on Saturday and over 3000 volunteers on Sunday helping to sort clothes and food and to help those in need. There were businesses set up cooking and giving away free meals. Even the town of Tuscaloosa AL sent a semi trailer of water. It was a very intimidating experience to see first hand the destruction but it was a very great thing to see the outpouring of humanity from one stranger to another stranger where many new relationships were formed.

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Jun 7, 2011, at 2:37 AM

OKR... lol that was a blast from the past.

I have not given up. I have simply stopped posting very much because it is tiresome to read over and over about how bad and evil and racist people are simply because they differ in political and social opinions and the blatant hypocrisy that I read over and over from people proclaiming to be on the left every time they bash the right for something that the left does equally as well.... errrr bad. There is no desire for conversation nor debate. Take Cheesehead and News as worst case examples if you dont agree with them then you are uneducated, ill informed or you only listen to Fox News... lol

I am waiting for you lefties to get on the bandwagon demanding that Weiner resign or be fired... yet I have not read ANYTHING so far BUT were it to be a Republican you would be dancing in the aisle and screaming for his head and using one person as an example that you put forth indicating the entire right side of the political aisle.

Discussion and debate is only interesting to me when both sides can realize that there is no RIGHT opinion and that each person's opinion is exactly that... an opinion based on individual biases and environments, and education both formal and informal and many other factors.

To sit and read over and over about how horrible the right is and how horrible it is for people to be Christian, or to demand a small government because the huge inefficient government is BROKE financially and physically and EVERYTHING that the government does is geared toward a special interest group and NOT the people in general and that BOTH sides conduct their selves mostly to get re-elected and not in an honest effort based on values and morals and what they think is the best thing for our nation; this is not entertaining reading for me nor a useful way for me to utilize my spare time.

I do still read your posts from time to time but just choose to not respond very much unless I see something that gets beyond the whole concept of Right Bashing...

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Jun 7, 2011, at 2:17 AM

"Catholic confronts Rep. Paul Ryan over 'Ayn Rand budget' at religious conference"

http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/0...

Some good questions by Christians.

Isn't it a shame that Republican Congressman Ryan felt the questioner was not worthy of an answer.

Never-the-less, the question remains.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jun 6, 2011, at 11:41 PM

Sarah Palin..........really?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Jun 6, 2011, at 10:41 PM

Also,

When we look at Dr. Britt's study, we cannot ignore the method which he used.

He examined known fascist governments -- governments that were very proud of their fascism and made no secret of their support for fascism -- such as WWII Italy, Franco Spain, NAZI Germany, and Pinoche Chili.

The 14 Characteristics were the common characteristics he found in significant levels in all of the fascist nations examined. Each fascist nation had all 14 characteristics. They reflect a minimum standard by which we can define fascism. Simply put, Dr. Britt's study demonstrates that in order for a nation to fit into the same category -- fascism -- as those nations we know were fascist, the nation must have all 14 charactoristics of fascism -- minimum. If it has only 13 then it is different from the minimum standard of scale provided by Dr. Britt's study. 13 of the 14 characteristics would not be enough to meet that minimum standard by which we can define fascism.

In order to fit with the empirical evidence which does define fascism, a nation would have to reflect all 14 characteristics of fascism.

Surprisingly enough, all 14 characteristics of fascism are clearly manifest in modern America...and that should really cause all freedom-loving American to be very concerned for their own future.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jun 6, 2011, at 8:44 PM

inthemiddle

You say,

"By the way, Dr. Britt's 14 points describe every "communist" government that has ever exsisted and many of the 14 would be supported by socialists."

That statement is false and is contrary to the factual evidence we have.

1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism

Communist Nations are not dedicated to nations. They are dedicated to socialism -- World Wide socialism. In fact, Karl Marx model predicts a World without national boundries under socialism.

5. Rampant sexism

In fact, the Soviets outlawed sexism with serious consequences for the offender. In addition, the Soviet Union was the first European nation to give full equal rights to women and to make every job position in the Soviet Union equally accessible to both men and women. Perhaps the most telling aspect of this was the woman many consider to be the greatest hero of WWII -- Lyudmila Pavlichenko -- who was a sharpshooter of the Red Army who killed over 300 fascists -- including many of the fascist's best sharpshooters.

8. Religion and ruling elite tied together

The soviets had no religion nor did they ever tie religion to the government.

9. Power of corporations protected

There were no corporations in the Soviet Union.

10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated

The Soviets and all communist nations glorified labor. Communism is all about the rights of the worker.

11. Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts

The Soviets fully funded state Universities and the arts. This is one of the reasons so many great authors, painters, and musicians (particularly violinists) were able to develop their arts under the Soviets and would account for the large number of artists who thrived under the Soviet Union.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jun 6, 2011, at 2:43 AM

An interesting comment regarding the rising demand for non-Muslim mercenaries to serve the governments of Muslim countries. Looks like "Old Blackwater" is going to make another mint from it.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/scramble-for... (Sidney Morning Herald)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Jun 6, 2011, at 12:39 AM

Recent discussion of the roots of socialism seemed to me to be somewhat doctrinaire in its nuance.

Overlooked was obviously successful pragmatic application of socialistic principles that has taken place aside from whatever is the political attachment of socialistic practice.

Health care in first world countries is the most glaring example. Almost all, excepting the United States, have a socialistic health care system. Evidence of its success is highlighted by the negative example of the United States. We spend more per capita than any other country on health care. Despite that we are among the lower ranked, even third world, countries as to the success of our health care system. We are rated poor in infant mortality statistics, longevity statistics, and a plethora of categories between those. That says nothing of those who are denied even basic access to medical care. Hence our notion of non-socialistic health care is a failure. That does not mean that our republican system must also fail, though it is in danger.

Socialism need not, but may be affiliated with fascism, communism, federalism, corporatism, et al. It has had successful application, in all those forms, failing not because it was socialism, but because it was tied to unsuccessful forms of government. To me socialism is a tool to serve the needs of the people, the service is paid for by the people. It has never been a pure political system in its self. Instead it has always been an arm of a political system. It is flexible, and adaptable, unlike each of the aforementioned political systems, all of which are afflicted by a restrictive rigidity.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Jun 6, 2011, at 12:06 AM

Inthemiddle I first want to say that I appreciate your comments. I don't always agree, but they are well stated.

Secondly, please refresh me as to the good decisions by George W. Bush. There must not have been many because he has already been rated as one of the worst Presidents. I am legitimately curious as to what a self described middle of the road person considers his good decisions.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jun 5, 2011, at 10:48 PM

By the way, Dr. Britt's 14 points describe every "communist" government that has ever exsisted and many of the 14 would be supported by socialists. In both communist/socialistand facist regimes, corporations that sensed the political tides openly supported the new governments and survived just under new guises, while those that stood in opposition were eliminated.

Perhaps both Freud and Shakespeare were right when they argued that we hate in others what we see in ourselves.

-- Posted by inthemiddle on Sun, Jun 5, 2011, at 10:05 PM

Historically speaking, in the 20s and 30s the supporters of facism were mostly on the left. An interesting argument has been made that facism was shifted to the right, not by right-wing politicians, but rather by the fact that Russia switched sides in WWII after the German invasion of Russia. Allied propoganda helped perpetuate this view so as to not alienate the new ally. After the war, especially in the 1960s, as many of the most extreme left-leaning migrated into academia, they helped to reenforce this thinking. While that argument may not be 100% accurate, I suspect that it has some validity to it.

Notice the G8 conferences and the recent international global warming summit in Copenhagen. The tactics of the "facists" are still practiced by the left, however it is now labelled as "civil disobedience," or "popular uprisings" while the actions of the government are called facist. Imagine calling Hitler's Beer Hall Putsch or Mussolini's March on Rome "civil disobedience" and shouting as the government tried to supress such popular uprisings that the government was a "police state."

I am a moderate, hence the inthemiddle. A recent post mentioned that more moderates should post. My guess is that moderates like myself are less-likely to post because those of you extremes (both right and left) are so locked into your mindsets that you refuse to even consider the possibility that the other side may be right, or at least have valid arguments. Those of us in the middle grow tired of one way discussions. I have read many post by all of you and I hate to break it to you but neither Presidents GW Bush or Obama are the sources of all evil. Both have made mistakes, both have made good decisions.

-- Posted by inthemiddle on Sun, Jun 5, 2011, at 9:49 PM

... and remember...

"The Revolution Will Not Be Televised"

Gil Scott-Heron

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGaRtqrlG...

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jun 5, 2011, at 3:50 AM

inthemiddle

I can't speak for other folks, but the definition I use of Fascism is rooted in Dr. Lawrance Britt's in-depth study.

"Fourteen Defining

Characteristics Of Fascism"

http://www.rense.com/general37/char.htm

"14 Characteristics of Fascism"

http://www.videolica.com/videos/VVVa1IvH...

Its pretty much the same definition we had in the 30's and 40's.

Woody Guthrie: "All You Fascists Bound To Lose"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwcKwGS7O...

Woody and me, we don't like fascist pigs at all. Woody and me think fascism belongs buried along with Musolini, Hitler, Franco -- and the ruthless fascist dictator the United States helped put into power in Chile, Augusto Pinochet, replacing the democracy that was flowering there prior to Pinochet's military coup.

Call me simple minded, but I only support democracy.

But there are a lot of Americans today who seem to admire fascist priniciples...and all of them are on the political right wing.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jun 5, 2011, at 3:08 AM

The Daily Show on GOP Reponse to Joplin Tragedy: "What Is Cantor Thinking?"

http://www.firedupmissouri.com/content/d...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Sat, Jun 4, 2011, at 11:39 PM

But Nana in quoting Trotsky you use communist definitions of facism. That was the part of the point of my post. You quote by Trotsky regqrding facism, could easily have been made by facists about communism. Karl Marx himself was a supporter of the "capitalist" imperialism. (He viewed it as a necessary evil, part of the "white man's burden" to civilize non Europeans so they would be ready to accept communism.)

Politicos of the time recognized that facism was the rival twin of socialism. Many communists in Europe of the time felt that Facism was the first step to their plan. As many communists said "First brown, then red." Mussolini was popular with the working class of Italy. Facists such as Mussolini, and Hitler, like Lenin, Trotsky, and Stalin used the same tactics. And yes Mussolini's facism was pertinent to only Italy. That was the point of facism as I stated. Italian Facism was for Italy, Spanish Facism for Spain, English for England, etc., that is why it was called "National" socialism. All had similar goals. All corresponded with Mussolini for advice. However, each was free to "tweak" Facism to fit their national identities. International socialism was to be directed by the Comintern of the Soviet Union, where conformity was expected.

As for the second part of your response, I am not sure where it comes from. I made no judgement of socialism, communism, or facism. Just like capitalism, all systems can demonstrate successes and abuses. I feel that perhaps you were reading something into my post that was not there. I was simpliy speaking from an historic perspective.

-- Posted by inthemiddle on Sat, Jun 4, 2011, at 2:44 PM

No Matter How the Media Spins It, Obama Owns This Economic Crisis

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/s...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Jun 4, 2011, at 2:28 PM

Employer Can't Find Applicants

"You need to first tell 'em what the sick day schedule is, how many vacation days they're going to get, how many personal days to take the dog to the vet and then you'll be overrun with applications."

"I think the biggest issue here in Wisconsin is BadgerCare. We have free medical care for people who don't have an income."

Why work when you can have free health care that would be awesome.

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/s...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Jun 4, 2011, at 2:21 PM

"Of course I take issue with your scenario that it is all the fault of the big bad bullies on the right. I believe that dogmatic in your face commentary is as much the province of the left, as of the right, if not more so."

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Jun 4, 2011, at 2:10 PM

Coming to the USA

SUMMER OF RECOVERY 3

Housing market worsening, unemployment rising, inflation and double dip recession. I can't wait for SUMMER OF RECOVERY 4. Can you?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Jun 4, 2011, at 2:06 PM

ND nice expansion, and reply.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Jun 4, 2011, at 1:52 PM

Thanks for explaining your impression of the blogs rr3. I will try to take that into consideration in future posts. Of course I take issue with your scenario that it is all the fault of the big bad bullies on the left. I believe that dogmatic in your face commentary is as much the province of the right, as of the left, if not more so.

So, you wanna fight about it? ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Jun 4, 2011, at 11:20 AM

nana - your Henry Wallace piece was interesting. Part of the reason Roosevelt dropped Wallace was FDR and others had suspicons that Wallace was leaning too far to the left, possibly even communist sympathies. Reading his definition of Facism it does show more left-leaning ideology than many of his contemporaries.

Facism as created by Mussolini, was more left of center than right. Mussolini was a Socialist. The difference between the Facists and Communists of the 1920s and 30s was that Communists were internationalist and Facists were Nationalists, meaning that while they shared MANY goals, the major difference was Communists wanted Russian leadership, Facists wanted the socialist movement leadership from each individual nations hence The National Socialist (NAZI) movement in Germany. Look up the original NAZI party platform and you may be aqmazed at how progressive it was - free college education, free health care, old-age pensions, break-up of corporations, etc.

Many of the arguments made by Wallace were accusations made by traditional socialists and communists of the period. Many American progressives of the inter-war period preferred facism and/or its methods, to the traditional socialism/communism of the same era.

-- Posted by inthemiddle on Fri, Jun 3, 2011, at 12:26 PM

And here is interesting comment presented by Third Child. Remember him?

"* while I voted for President Obama, I do not consider him to be a messiah nor do I worship him*

'Within the narrow parameters of space allowed'

"The argument that the two parties should represent opposed ideals and policies, one, perhaps, of the Right and the other of the Left, is a foolish idea acceptable only to the doctrinaire and academic thinkers. Instead, the two parties should be almost identical, so that the American people can "throw the rascals out" at any election without leading to any profound or extreme shifts in policy." ~ Carroll Quigley, Tragedy and Hope

Mike Gaddy's perspective:

"A great majority of Americans refuse to accept the fact both parties are controlled by the same power cabal, just as Professor Carroll Quigley pointed out in his book, Tragedy and Hope. Instead, they embrace the concept of party politics over those of individual freedom and liberty. The paradigm of supporting your party or candidate of choice, even when they are involved in unconstitutional and/or criminal activities, takes on greater priority than supporting the Constitution or liberty itself. Party first, regardless of the crimes committed, has relegated this country to being led by criminals and the loss of individual liberty."

More:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/gaddy/gaddy68...

-- Posted by Third Child on Mon, Sep 21, 2009, at 9:00 AM"

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Jun 3, 2011, at 12:14 AM

Associated with my prior post about the lack of conservative comment here is a blast from the past courtesy of Mr. X-ray. It is an example of common ground between the left, and the right.

"What the f.... I agree with your analogy... too many people in America and on this message board are so biased toward their personal OPINIONS that they ignore reality. Your Pro-wrestler analogy is spot on. The Dems and Repubs just take turns and it gets worse and worse and more blatant. It is not about what is best for American citizens but what bests secures their power and money and comfortable life style.

As long as we the people continue to ignore the realities of our political situation then we will never actually get it fixed.

You can agree or disagree with the tea party movement all you want. But, if you are half way honest, you have to admit that their actions as a movement have made a big first step in forcing the political elite to at least pay attention to the citizens a little bit. IF the people remove a few incumbents and then go back to sleep then nothing is solved. BUT if this movement of citizens waking up to the realities of the bribery and corruption in DC that is causing our nation to fail continues then maybe we have a chance.

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Nov 1, 2010, at 12:38 AM "

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Jun 3, 2011, at 12:07 AM

I don't like it this way, but the truth is that rr3 is the last conservative posting here with any frequency. Gotta give him credit for not giving up. I wish some of the others would come back. It is hard to present a counterpoint when there is no point.

I would also like to see some of the moderates post more often. We (right and left) don't go toe to toe with moderates, but wehave some good discussions that are absent the passion that right, andleft throw at each other.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Jun 2, 2011, at 11:48 PM

Mine is very significant to me Nana. Really should I worry about what a business or a millionaire pays in taxes? I mean unless we throw the current tax code out the window and start all over I believe we the people will continue to pay more and more and the rich will pay less and less. Let's not worry so much about the symptoms, let's get to the root of the problem. The media wants you to worry about the evil rich and they have done a darn good job of it haven't they? They aren't the problem. The rules of the game are the problem that is where we need real change. Will it happen, it wouldn't surprise me if Obama got reelected and in 2016 we will still be wondering about the hope and change.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jun 2, 2011, at 11:27 PM

My tax returns say otherwise Nana.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jun 2, 2011, at 10:43 PM

"We were told during the campaign that Obama would fundamentally change the way the US economy works -- and he has! We are getting to see exactly what he meant by that promise." -Rush

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jun 2, 2011, at 8:57 PM

ND regarding your listing the benefits of hemp. As you know the Missouri River bottoms of Saline County were once huge producers of hemp (unfortunately done by slave labor). I am wondering if hemp might again have potential in those bottoms, perhaps in rotation with corn. Maybe some of the agriculturists that read, and or post could enlighten me as to the feasibility.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Jun 2, 2011, at 12:55 PM

Yeh ND Reich would be my choice for President. It has long been obvious that Obama snatched the wrong Robert from the Clinton Administration.

Re: marijuana. We learned in short order that prohibition of alcohol was a disaster, and ended it. Marijuana prohibition (in my opinion) is the same kind of disaster with the same consequences. We don't exhibit the good sense to treat it the same way because big pharma is scared to death of their potential losses, and there is such an infrastructure (think jobs & profits) built up that it would be an Augean task to dismantle it, or so percieve the powers that be. Actually all that would be necessary is change of mission, toward meth, heroin, and oxycontin. Especially Oxycontin, which results in more death by overdose, than any other drug.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Jun 2, 2011, at 12:45 PM

re: drug screening for welfare recipients ...

i think it's a good thing ... most employers do drug screening for their employees - why not the government for those who are on the public payroll ... if this was a federal bill - it would probably take care of all the debt ceiling problems and might even balance the budget ...

just sayin' ...

zeke

-- Posted by zeke on Thu, Jun 2, 2011, at 11:33 AM

Drug War has failed says a new report by the Global Commission on Drug Policy. This commission is a blue ribbon panel that includes George Schultz who held cabinet posts under Nixon, and Reagan, former U. N. Secretary General Koffi Annan, Paul Volker former Chairman of the Federal Reserve, business mogul Richard Branson, also, the current Prime Minister of Greece, and former presidents of Brazil, Mexico, and Columbia.

It is an interesting conclusion, one worth, at the least, consideration, in my opinion. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/01...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Jun 2, 2011, at 12:48 AM

Where have we been, where are we, where are we going, and why. A cogent commentary by Robert Reich. If you want to make some sense of the mess we are in do not neglect to read this. http://www.truthout.org/truth-about-amer...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jun 1, 2011, at 11:56 PM

Oh well, I gotta say more than that. If the drug screening results in more than just kicking addicts into the ditch, and putting their kids in foster care it has positive potential.

If its purpose is punitive I am opposed to it. If it is proactive, I am for it.

I haven't read the bill, but I suppose it includes that old punching bag, marijuana, right in there with meth, heroin, and all the rest. If so I am also opposed to it on those grounds.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jun 1, 2011, at 1:01 PM

BFG like rr3yvo I think it is a great idea as long as there is a way to get help to the kids of the people that test positive.

I also think the people that are on welfare should be either in school learning a new trade or be looking for a job.

I do not think welfare should be never ending!!

It should be a helping hand not a way of life!

-- Posted by Gal66 on Wed, Jun 1, 2011, at 12:55 PM

BFG what do I think? The opposite of rr3. ;)

(as usual). My response wasn't very wordy, but is essentially accurate.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jun 1, 2011, at 12:51 PM

Drug screening is fine (IN MY OPINION)if it go's no further than that! But it always leads too other thing they want to add to the Bill, it never stops!

-- Posted by Jo on Wed, Jun 1, 2011, at 12:44 PM

As long as they have a provision for helping the kids I think it would be great. If they want to do drugs why should we support them. I think there is also a similar bill in Missouri.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jun 1, 2011, at 10:40 AM

Floridas governer signed a bill requiring welfare recipients to submit to drug screenings before getting any money. what do you guys think about this one?

http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/06/01/f...

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Wed, Jun 1, 2011, at 8:14 AM

Welcome to June.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Wed, Jun 1, 2011, at 7:05 AM


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