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Thursday, May 5, 2016

Speak Out [politics] April 1 to May 1, 2011

Friday, April 1, 2011

This forum is for discussing political issues -- local, state, national or international. The same standards of behavior apply as are spelled out on our home page in the introduction to Speak Out.

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Post your message of hope in either Empress. It is a certainty that both religion, and politics need such infusion.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, May 1, 2011, at 12:12 AM

Good point Empress. That shabby propaganda story is so full of holes that it is absurdly ridiculous. What kind of nuts are running the news manufacturing store?

Considering my immediately prior post, as well as what we have done in the recent past, (thousands of Iraqi children, and at least hundreds of Afghan children killed) are we now known across the world as the nation that kills children? There is no doubt that we are in the middle east.

It turns my stomach. Not only because it has happened, but just as much because we the people are so morally numbed by war that most hardly blink an eye at these moral crimes. I guess it is just too far away for our moral eye to see that far. There was more moral outrage regarding Waco, though the loss of lives was much less. There was extreme outrage about the Oklahoma City bombing, and of course 9-11. Yet we can not understand why, and do not care why there is outrage when we, in the name of our nation, kill many, many, more, children with bombs.

War is hell, and if Christian believers do not think such actions against children as these will not get them a ticket to hell they are sadly mistaken. It gives Jesus' words "suffer the little children" a very sick twist.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Apr 30, 2011, at 8:56 PM

Gadhafi's grand children killed by a missile strike. His son was also killed. Another proud moment in our grand little third war that isn't a war. We can not stop killing brown skinned children, for oil. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/30...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Apr 30, 2011, at 8:32 PM

"Andrew Brietbart smearing college professors with deceptively edited video"


Yeah he is back to his old tricks again.

Someone needs to sue the pants off this guy.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Apr 30, 2011, at 3:59 PM

Dennis Kuchinich pledged to form a Department of Peace during the 2008 campaign. Now there is a man for the season.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Apr 30, 2011, at 12:36 AM

I read it OKR.

Its part of the empire building justification propaganda of the United States.

You would think by now folks would be noticing a pattern.

Demonize, create or manufacture an "atrocity blaming the "Demon" leader personally, set a date by which some unrealistic demand must be met by the latest demon leader, attack the small country utilizng German blitzkrieg tactics, terrorize and butcher civilians, destroy the government and as many buildings as possible, create havack, black out media coverage other than a few shots of missles being fired from an American Naval Ship, subdue the country, occupy the country, and you have yourself the standard American approach to empire building. They have done this a few times now. Its no coincidence it always seems to follow the same basic pattern.

I wonder what would happen if we set up a Department of Peace? I wonder if that would help stop this kind of amaturish demonizing tactic?

Its almost enough to make me want to give back my passport -- but I won't lol.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Apr 30, 2011, at 12:26 AM

Regulars on this blog of all political persuasions, would you check this link, and tell me whether, or not it appears to be true, or is just a propaganda trick to demonize an enemy. To me it does not seem well documented enough to support its sensational allegation. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/28...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Apr 29, 2011, at 11:56 PM


The "handouts" you refer to -- by that I presume you mean social programs that are designed to help feed the poor -- are not on the increase.

The current Budget agreement calls for massive cuts in programs that are designed to help feed poor people, provide medical care availability to poor children, assist in housing poor children, ect. Not only are such cuts during a deflationary period unwise (insane actually from an economic standpoint), but such an attack on the poor by the rich and the government they own -- at a time when the middle class is shrinking rapidly and the number of poor rising -- has in the past, in other countries resulted in fierce, bloody revolutions such as the French Revolution and the Russian Revolution -- just to name 2 of them.

Infact, there are number of strong similarities between the French economy leading up to the French revolution and the direction of the current American economy. For example, most of the Nations' wealth was in the hands of just a small number of the population while the wealth of the common man was on downward trend. In addition, the rich paid little or no tax and the common man paid higher and higher taxes. The French were also at war leading up to the Revolution -- wars that were bankrupting their economy -- and much like America today, the French Government ignored the calls of the common man to end the foreign wars and the empire building.

So here we are cutting the food, medicine, and housing to the poor, waging economic war on American workers (ie: Republican push to eliminate public workers' unions) while waging at least 2 unpopular, illigitimate, foreign wars which are draining our tax revenues -- both present and future -- in the middle of an economic deflationary period. I won't even mention anything about how both the French Government and the US Government engaged in torture -- that falls a bit outside the economics of it lol.

But they did and do.

Will Americans revolt if things get bad enough?

...well, as you know, they have before.

And now that we are busy cutting a lot more from folks who already have nothing...well...you can argue it won't happen but I don't think that argument will change anything.

When folks have nothing left to lose but their lives they don't mind losing that -- as long as they can take the rich with them.

So says the empirical evidence mate.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Apr 29, 2011, at 9:31 PM


I do have to admit I was surprised to hear a professional who is well versed in history and especially one with a Bach. of Arts in History ask for evidence he knows very well is safely stored in the historical record for all to see -- especially a peer reviewed, scientific theory that is well supported by a mountain of historical evidence.

As to dollar vote. Try running a campaign on a zero dollar budget against an opponent with a 1 billion dollar budget. You will lose. Again, we have many many many years of elections that lend strong support to this notion. In fact, one of the main indicators in any election watched by reporters, journalists, and political pundits is the candidates "war chest" of political funding. They know full well that the more campaign money one has, the better his advantage. They know this and they watch this because of their own experience in their chosen field. Money wins elections in almost every case. He or she who has the most money gets the most media exposure. Perhaps this is why advertising is such a profitable business to be in and why some advertising is so expensive.

But dollar vote does so much more that just swing elections.

In a capitalist system -- and especially a free market capitalist system -- allocation is decided entirely by dollar vote. That alone gives the rich a heck of a lot of muscle because they decide by dollar vote what package of goods and services will be available for purchase in our society. They outvote us. Its that simple because with dollar vote you get a vote for every dollar you have -- and they have a lot more than most of us.

Technology is also decided by dollar vote. He who has the most dollars decideds how we will produce those goods and services. It does not matter if it is efficient, inefficient, productive, or non-productive. All that matters is that they have more dollars and so more say in it. They can outbid any of us.

Equity is also decided by dollar vote. It is done by buying campaigns, media, politicians votes', and when necessary, by direct bribery.

Indeed, money can be the root of all (or most) evil. All we can do as folks who don't have 2 nickles to rub together relative to the mass of wealth in the hands of just 1.5% of the richest Americans is hope and pray to sweet Jesus that every politician is too honest to ever give extra consideration to the guy who is paying for his campaigns.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Apr 29, 2011, at 8:58 PM

Governor Jay Nixon VETO SB188


-- Posted by CWilli on Fri, Apr 29, 2011, at 3:36 PM


I happen to be very good at interpreting history thank you. After all, I'm as much of a Historian as you are an Economist - it says so right on my degree.

Also, there is are glaring flaws in your recent solution given to rr3. If no record is kept of the votes in Congress, not only can the fat cat lobbyists that pay them not know how they voted, We the People wouldn't know how they voted and have no record to base our votes on at election time.

Finally, when it comes right down to it, $$$ don't go into the voting booth and mark a ballot, people do. If you and I, and many others on this blog, are smart enough to not have OUR votes bought, we can only hope enough of the rest of the country can wise up also. I personally think that if the masses are too dumb and lazy to avoid having their votes bought, they are probably too dumb and lazy to revolt in any other way also, especially if our government increases the hand outs.

-- Posted by Philemon on Fri, Apr 29, 2011, at 9:52 AM

Walking down Wistful Vista Avenue. http://www.npr.org/blogs/monkeysee/2011/...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Apr 29, 2011, at 12:24 AM

Something for history buffs, and students of empires, and their decline. http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/175383/t...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Apr 28, 2011, at 11:59 PM

See if you have objective morality or relative morality.


-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Apr 28, 2011, at 11:31 PM

"There are two ways to slide easily through life: to believe everything or to doubt everything. Both ways save us from thinking."

- Alfred Korzybski

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Apr 28, 2011, at 11:26 PM


I agree completely that you are not a cruel person nor do I think you would willingly support government policies that you view as cruel.

I do hope that you will, along with me and hopefully everyone, learn as much as you/we can about these policies and carefully examin them.

I think that in general that is probably the best we can do with all our options...learn about them, anylize them, and support those government bills and policies we think are the fairest to all involved and are in-line with our long-standing American traditions of equality and altruism.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Apr 28, 2011, at 8:11 PM

"Wisc. GOP plans to severely restrict voting rights"


-- Posted by news across on Thu, Apr 28, 2011, at 7:07 PM

"GOP Rep. West faces another angry town hall"

with video (dang my lying eyes and ears).


It looks like folks are finally beginning to realize who the teaparty Republicans are.

Teaparty = Neocons = fascists

Woody Guthrie~ "All You Fascists Bound To Lose"


-- Posted by news across on Thu, Apr 28, 2011, at 7:02 PM

"Tea party Rep. confronted by angry retirees"

with video (dang my lying eyes and ears)


-- Posted by news across on Thu, Apr 28, 2011, at 6:47 PM

Oh also Phil,

I won't be voting Republican or Democrat.

I no longer, as a matter of personal policy, vote for any candidate of either the Republicans or Democrats...ever.

I plan to vote Green Party straight ticket in 2012. If there is no Green Party or Democratic Socialist Party candidates available in my district's part of the election (District 5), then I will write in my own name (something the Aussies do when they are not happy with the canidates offered on the ballot). I don't think I will win but at least my vote will go to someone I can trust...lol.

Some folks would say I am wasting my vote by voting 3rd party, but I don't agree with those folks. Here in OZ we thought it was a waste to vote 3rd party too...some years back, but enough folks had the courage to break from the pack and vote independent or 3rd party.

As a result of the courage of the Australian voters, the Greens are now in firm control of the Senate. In addition, neither major party has a majority in the House either and they must court the Greens to get their votes or the bills don't pass. In fact, because neither major party has a majority in the House of Representitives, the choice of Prime Minister was decided by the Greens.

So much for claims of wasted votes.

What one country can do, another country can also do.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Apr 28, 2011, at 6:37 PM


I think the solution is easy.

We change the Senate rules to allow only votes by aye or nay. No record is kept as to how a specific Congressman votes. Only the totals are taken by voice vote at the time of the vote.

By doing this rich fat-cats won't have any idea if the politicians they think they bought are voting the way the rich fat-cat wants them to vote.

One thing rich fat-cats don't want to do and won't do is to pay for votes they can't verify.

In addition, this will make elections much better because the only real issue would be the candidates good character and honor, and it would allow the politician to vote his/her conscience rather than casting a vote he knows is bad for the little folks -- us.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Apr 28, 2011, at 5:33 PM


The empirical evidence of 3rd class coach theory is well preserved in the historical records.

Perhaps you should have watched the History Channel documentaries I posted links to.

It might have broadend your horizens.

As to your question,

Yes a rich man gets many many many many more dollar votes than you and that translates into a win for their candidates.

As to whether or not the American People will ever revolt...well they have before.

As to when will they revolt...that will be when they get hungry enough.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Apr 28, 2011, at 5:22 PM

News short of outlawing any money going to a congressman except for their salary will anything change. I don't think it will until things get bad enough for the people stand up and say enough is enough. We won't get it done whining about fairness or taxing the rich though. Outlawing lobbyist, special interests, corporate and private money will only begin to solve the problem. When we send someone to Washington they would agree to go on the salary and expenses approved by us the voters. Then we will have a voice.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Apr 28, 2011, at 11:58 AM

Nana I wasn't the first to bring up those of less than average intelligence. And I'm cruel that is laughable.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Apr 28, 2011, at 11:06 AM

You tell me of the "3rd Class Coach theory" News, but I'd really rather see testable, observable, repeatable, verifiable evidence, not just a theory. Sorry, couldn't resist.

So, Nana and News, are you saying that I don't have one vote or that a rich man gets more votes. I understand Congressmen can be bought giving the buyer more votes in Congress, but the masses can then vote that person out of Congress. Lovely little system our founding fathers developed. A friend of mine from the Ivory Coast once told me how perplexed people were in his country about how we can have a peaceful overthrow of our government every 4 or 8 years.

Again I ask, could it be that these masses you refer to that are so unhappy that they need to revolt aren't really that massive? I know you and I aren't happy with Obama and many Democrats aren't either, but I really do expect the "masses" to vote him in for another four years. If that happens, I won't like it, many won't like it, but the majority will rule, not the 1%.

-- Posted by Philemon on Thu, Apr 28, 2011, at 7:54 AM


This is why fairness and altruism do matter and should matter to the rich and their running dog lackeys who die with them during revolutions.

1.) "The French Revolution 1/9"


2.) "The Russian Revolution - Part 1"


-- Posted by news across on Wed, Apr 27, 2011, at 11:26 PM


In the field of Economics we have a theory we refer to as "3rd Class Coach theory."

Its pretty simple. These revolutions I listed and you repeated were all a result of 3rd class coach theory. When a large mass of the population no longer have anything left to lose, they are willing to give their life...as long as they can take the rich or the agents of the rich with them.

You assume autocratic rule was the causation...ignoring the economic state of the masses prior to and at the time of the revolution.

Granted, the murder of the Iranian people enmass certainly was a motivation of the Iranians but I think less so than the enmass starvation that was occuring.

Russia is another good example. The last of the European Nations to practice the economics of Feudalism, was rampant with canibalism and the poverty of the Russian people was unmatched any other place in Europe.

Each true revolution (for operational definition, I am refering to a revolution in which the culture itself is changed -- unlike the American revolution in which the same culture continued after the war) has a similar pattern. The Rich control the government (in our case that is done by buying votes in Congress which corporations are now completely free to do in darkness) and the government makes sure it creates the conditions required by the rich for the rich to get richer.

Does that sound familiar? It should.

One man, one vote you say?

What planet is that on?

"Cause now that Corporations have had the way cleared to unlimited, secret donations to any Senator or Congressman the want to "donate" to by the 5 Republican Justices on the Surpreme Court, perhaps only dollar vote matters now...bad news for us little guys.

"Woody Guthrie Ludlow Massacre"


-- Posted by news across on Wed, Apr 27, 2011, at 11:14 PM

rr3 did the math on the family example in my head as I wrote, could be off a few dollars here or there, but not enough to change the relevance of the example.

By the way I have enjoyed our exchange today. Some how you seem to bring out the best in me.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Apr 27, 2011, at 6:06 PM

rr3 what gives us the right is that it is right.

Who says dog eat dog, to the victor belongs the spoils, beyond a few half baked extreme libertarians? We as humans should aspire to more than that. Why is it the right thing to do to sit on our hands,and even in many cases revere those greedy humans to whom the only mark of success is to capture as much of the worlds resources as each of them possibly can? Those people are mentally ill, and if nothing else we should try to save them from their sociopathic selves.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Apr 27, 2011, at 6:01 PM

I was referring to your family of four making only $20,000. okr.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Apr 27, 2011, at 5:54 PM

"I'm deeply fascinated by this whole notion of what candidates are 'smart' or 'serious.' I think 'serious,' is the new word replacing 'gravitas.' I mean, if Obama is so smart, isn't two-and-a-half years enough time to figure out that his policies aren't working? There's no indication of smartness in anything he tries to do." -Rush

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Apr 27, 2011, at 5:52 PM

Math is not off rr3, 2.2 plus 6.7, plus 16.1 =25.0. Cipher again if you would?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Apr 27, 2011, at 5:52 PM

"Who's to say its not fair okr? You!! Please spare me the heartache. Life is not fair and at your age you should know that.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Apr 27, 2011, at 5:18 PM"

rr3 I know a lot of things at my age including that life is not fair. I also have learned to dream, and to think beyond such knowlege, to realize that I am my brothers keeper, and that I keep myself better by never forgetting that. I wish for you the same advance as you approach me in years.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Apr 27, 2011, at 5:47 PM

Man okr I didn't know such a percentage of the population was so stupid. Lighten up man. I still ask what gives us the have-nots the right to tell the haves what they will give up? That has never happened in this world. Another point is how much is enough? Math is a little off on your last post but hey who's counting right!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Apr 27, 2011, at 5:47 PM

You are right rr3, life is not fair, but to hold every one to the same standard regardless of their respective abilities is not the same thing. We can eradicate that unfairness, and I believe we should. You apparently do not. Perhaps I have a more charitable nature than you? I can not know your reason.

For instance 2.2% of our population has an I.Q. of below 70 (extremely low), 6.7% has an I.Q. of 70 to 79 (borderline), and 16.1% have an I.Q. ranging from 80 to 89 (low average). That my friend is twenty five percent of our nation's people who have more difficulty than the rest of us just getting by day to day. Most of them are not capable of doing those jobs that pay a living wage. Therefore they are forced into a life of deprivation. What sort of an illustration is that, here in the richest country in the world? And we call ourselves civilized, we call ourselves Christian, we call ourselves humanistic? I think we should not.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Apr 27, 2011, at 5:36 PM

Who's to say its not fair okr? You!! Please spare me the heartache. Life is not fair and at your age you should know that.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Apr 27, 2011, at 5:18 PM

Fair rr3? Balderdash.

Here is why. Supposing a young family of four has a gross income of $20,000.00 per year. Lop your proposed 17% off of that leaves them $16,600.00. Oh yes, but then they must pay state taxes, and sales taxes. Erring on the conservative side (that is easy to do), lop another 10% off their gross income. That leaves them $13,600.00. But we are forgetting all the other fees, and mandates, Car tags, and auto insurance for instance.

Now they are sitting on about $13,000.00 in disposable income.

Lets say housing, and utilities cost $700.00 per month. That is $8,400.00,leaving $4,600.00 to live on for a year. That leaves them a little over $300.00 per month to cover food, clothing, medical expenses, and anything else that crops up, and since we are talking about life here things qwill enevitably crop up.

Now you may be prone to respond, but there is Medicaid, there is subsidized housing, their is help with food stamps. Yes there is in the world we live in, and that theoretical family may qualify for some of that in today's world.

Yes rr3 that is true in today's world, but it would not be so in rr3's world. You are on record on these blogs as being against everyone of those forms of welfare. I suppose that leaves you with nothing else to say but, "Are there no prisons, are there no work houses? Merry Christmas to you Mr. rr3.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Apr 27, 2011, at 4:30 PM

I'm confused about all of this talk about the masses and their need to rebel, especially comparing it to Russia, China, France, and Iran. If I remember my history correct, and I did major in history way back in college, those revolutions took place in areas where the rich ruled in an autocratic fashion. If I remember my current events correctly, we currently live in a country whose government is still based on the one man one vote principle. So, if the masses are so upset that a revolt is needed to put that 1% in their place, why aren't they out there voting the people and policies into place that would accomplish what they want? Could it be that these masses that keep getting referred to simply aren't the majority they claim to be? Could it be that a majority of those not in that 1% actually are thankful to the rich for their jobs? I honestly don't know, but I am curious.

-- Posted by Philemon on Wed, Apr 27, 2011, at 3:57 PM

17% would be great maybe we need it as a flat rate across the board no deductions. 100% of income earners pay no exceptions. That would be fair.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Apr 27, 2011, at 3:49 PM

Part joke, part serious ND. Figuratively, off with their heads right now. I am (as are you) sick of the cake that they have been feeding us for years. It may look like chocolate, but the smell persuades me that it has a source other than an oven.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Apr 27, 2011, at 3:19 PM

I'm wondering what is a 'fair share'? If I was rich who would determine what my 'fair share' is?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Apr 27, 2011, at 12:09 PM


-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Apr 27, 2011, at 11:40 AM

Oh we know what happens when the rich and the state (often one in the same) leave the masses with little left to lose but their lives...

History has been very clear and woe to anyone who would assist the rich in this endeavor.

1.) The French Revolution

2.) The Russian Revolution

3.) The Chinese Revolution

4.) The Iranian Revolution

We don't have to guess what might happen when we as as a society ignore altruism...we already know.

"All You Fascists Bound To Lose"


-- Posted by news across on Wed, Apr 27, 2011, at 1:28 AM

Altruism: Why The Republicans Will Lose The Budget Cut Battle

"Render unto the slackers and lackers that which is theirs."


-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Apr 26, 2011, at 10:42 PM

On Tax Day Thank the Rich and Support Lifting the Tax Yoke off Them

"The wealthiest 1% of the taxpayers pay 34% of all federal income taxes. The top 50% pay 96% of the total bill. This means that the least wealthy 50% pay almost nothing. In short, the income tax system soaks the rich."


"The doctrine of altruism induces (and is meant to induce) guilt. It makes the successful feel that they have no right to their achievements."

"Most Americans would be shocked to learn that altruism is the moral code that underlies Marxism (and thus Communism)."

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Apr 26, 2011, at 5:38 PM

1984 is now. If the government does not like history, they just change it. http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ...

This article also reminded me of the times when we were engaged in the Cold War with the USSR, and they arrested one of "ours". We screamed, and cursed, we were outraged by the injustice of their justice system. Skip ahead to now. We have to face the fact that in the world's eyes, our "justice" now for foreign nationals, is more of a miscarriage of justice than was the Soviet's during the cold war.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Apr 25, 2011, at 8:25 PM


Recently we had a State Election here in New South Wales.

It was an interesting election as it was viewed as an opportunity to rid ourselves of our version of the Democrats for awhile.

The labour Party have been in control of the New South Wales Parliament for as long as any living person can remember, and they had become so comfortable in being the majority party in NSW that they had become even more conservative than our version of the Republicans (the Liberal Party -- yes I know its confusing lol).

The Liberals (our version of the Republicans) won a punishment vote and now our version of the Republican Party is in charge in NSW -- until the next election.

Anyway, the Liberals (our version of Republicans) had begun a campaign attacking the Greens. Their slogan was "a vote for the Greens IS a vote for Labour." I found it interesting that they were so terrified of a 3rd Party lol lol lol.

Anyway NanDot, during a discussion of the election and the Greens on Australian right-wing radio (which my wife listens to faithfully), the Liberal supporter made some standard, non-fact based, slur against the Greens and one of the others said,

"The Greens? Well they certainly couldn't do any worse than the 2 major parties already have."

I think his statement says it all.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Apr 25, 2011, at 3:18 PM

ND thanks for "interesting essay". I have long thought that is exactly how it is.

Something new that I got from it is that I no longer wonder why I so much enjoy the tiny patch of earth that is mine to use for my life time. A patch where I spend my time in a charade, or illusion of self sustainment, and practice the principles of living small. My place where I, in the midst of joy, may suddenly feel sadness because this little island is surrounded by the environmental, and social madness that is de rigueur.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Apr 25, 2011, at 2:58 PM

I wonder how many People sit down and read about the Green Party's Plan for America? It sounds too good to be true. When you look at the damage the Corporate world is doing to the environment, Oil, Corporate Farming,every aspect of life its scary. when every Drug that's put on the Market is more Dangerous than what you treating! They speak of free Markets & Competition ,how can you have Competition when they either own it all ,or collaborate on Price,like the oil Companies,Wall Street! This Country tries to gives the illusion of free Market! Reading of what go's on in this world makes you see just how insignificant the People really are,unless we keep up and do something about it without being fooled by these slick Attorneys twisting the Laws,with the meaning of a single work! We have to stop it ???? We have too have them so afraid of what the People think of them, that they blink their eyes every time they hear a back fire from a Car! That seems too be the way the Abortionist handle things,the Morons!!!!

-- Posted by Jo on Mon, Apr 25, 2011, at 12:45 PM

OKR and Jo,

You both make outstanding points.

I agree with Jo that resistance from the conservative Democrats put a damper on some of the things Obama promised to do. That is even more reason to vote 3rd Party...such as the Greens.

If all the folks who normally vote Democrat got out and voted Green Party this time around, do you think maybe we would finally break the 2 party addiction?

However a 3rd Party need not be the majority in order to have major say on every piece of legislation in the House and Senate. A 3rd party often means no majority for either of the traditional 2 parties. With no majority, both sides of the asile must cater to the 3rd Party for their support. It works and it does not mean the Greens have to have a majority to be effective.

It sure worked in Australia...and if that can happen in Australia, it can happen in any democracy.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Apr 25, 2011, at 1:21 AM

I'm in for a third Party,(BUT) If their isn't i can't see anyone other than Obama! I have to think he is all we have. Four years is not a lot of time for anyone Elected after Bush, to correct the damage done! He has did a lot of compromising with the Conservatives,but seems like no one wanted to back him on anything,even in his own Party ! And to accomplish what he has, with everyone fighting him on both sides,has impressed me too the Point of , (no one in the wings) i can see, to trust! As i see it I'll give him another 4 too get it right. Other wise this Country,as far as I'm concerned, Democracy will be NO more! You see it every day from Dem. & Rep. I don 't see any concern for Politic or fight in the American People any more,and that's do us in?

-- Posted by Jo on Sun, Apr 24, 2011, at 11:00 PM

Thanks ND. Praise the word, and pass the verbal ammunition! ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Apr 24, 2011, at 10:18 PM

News I see your point regarding Obama. I would find it hard to vote for him again. At the moment I can't say for certain I won't, primarily because I am partially disenfranchised in the theocorporatist state of Oklahoma.

You see it is very hard for a third party to get on the ballot in Oklahoma. The Green Party could not gather the exorbitant number of signatures required to get their party on the ballot. It is a greater proportion than any other state in the union, and the Oilies of both parties like it that way.

Further, a vote for Obama, even if I liked him, is moot in Oklahoma. He did not carry even one county in this state the last go round. Again, Oklahoma was the only state in the nation wherein that occurred.

It could be that my best choice will be to abstain from voting in the presidential election, for the first time since I voted for JFK way back when (at the Ford dealership on E. North Street).

We shall see. I will get involved in a get Green on the ballot if that is viable.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Apr 24, 2011, at 10:13 PM

I don't see a nouveau Eugene McCarthy this time out of the box News. I wish it were not the case.

The empire builders/corporatists have us figured out. No more Viet Nam type wars.

Never again will we have a war wherein all may be called to serve (draft/lottery). Instead they have ratcheted down the economy to the point that poor boys, and girls have no other avenue than the military to get a living wage, and an education. Then the corporatists tell us they are volunteers. We in our chosen ignorance, lap up that slop, saying well they all volunteered for it!

Never again will the corporatists allow truthful television coverage of the insanity, and brutality of war, as they did in Viet Nam.

For the majority of Americans if it isn't rubbed in their faces they don't care. Middle class young people (the heart of the anti-war movement in the sixties, and seventies) aren't looking over their shoulder at Uncle Sam coming after them, so they have no sense of urgency about our three wars of empire.

We sit here lobsters in a pot, not even aware that the pot is about to boil, not feeling the incremental heat.

We will just sit in that hot tub, growing ever more sullen, and suspicious of our neighbors, blaming them for the sweat on our brows. Blaming especially the ones that say things like I have said in this commentary.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Apr 24, 2011, at 9:43 PM

Does anyone see a possible, viable 2012 Democrat Primary challenge to Obama's nomination as the Democrat Candidate for the White House?

I know many of us on the left are clearly not happy with President Obama, and this may present a problem for the President. After all, we on the left make up a big chunk of Democratic voters (I no longer vote Democrat at all -- I only vote 3rd Party). So I am wondering if we might see any serious primary challenges to another 4 war-mongering years of Obama?

...or will the Dems just roll over and let Obama get away with his appeasement of the conservatives?

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Apr 24, 2011, at 7:05 PM

Empress I never claimed to be right you or someone else made that claim. I have no way of knowing whether you are going to hell or not, only God knows. I give all the glory to God not myself, but thanks anyway.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Apr 24, 2011, at 6:03 PM


Oh yeah there are definately at least a couple of contenders for the Republican Nomination...besides the Donald of course.

I think without question Governor Huckabee is a contender. He would be a formidable opponent to Obama. Governor Huckabee has a number of good personal qualities that I think make him generally a likeable guy. That helps in a Presidential election. He has a lot of experience as the top Executive Officer -- the Governor -- of a State and is noted by many to have been a successful governor at that.

I don't think Romney will do as well in the nomination process as he did in 2008. The Democrats have a lot of political ammo to use against him -- beginning with the fact that as Governor of Mass he passed the same basic health care reform package that passed into Federal law -- the same one that got a lot of conservatives mighty upset. I think his bid will fall flat.

I don't know if Governor Perry of Texas has thrown his hat in the ring yet, but he may very well be the best nominee for the Republican candidacy. He is the longest serving Governor of Texas and can hold his own well in political debates. He has a strong record as Governor and has had some major successes recognized on both sides of the political aisle.

Well those are just a few possible contenders as I see it. There are others but I believe Huckabee and Perry are the 2 best bets the Republicans have for the job of President.

But RR, I am still backing the Donald...lol.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Apr 24, 2011, at 9:32 AM

News I haven't picked one yet I'm not sure they will pick a viable candidate. We shall see though.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Apr 24, 2011, at 7:02 AM

"Video: SC Tea Party members support Trump, question Obama's citizenship"


My kinda folks!

"Your Fired!/I Quit!

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Apr 24, 2011, at 12:04 AM

Definition cocksure: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionar...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Apr 23, 2011, at 6:33 PM


Any thoughts on the best Republican Presidential ticket for 2012? Do you have any favorites or are there any of the potential candidates that you think will top the ticket?

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Apr 23, 2011, at 6:30 PM

100% = cocksurety http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionar...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Apr 23, 2011, at 6:30 PM

Empress aren't you 100%?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Apr 23, 2011, at 5:34 PM

Just one question okr isn't discussion with futile? I mean it is hard to teach an OLD dog new tricks but I have a tenacious never give up attitude even if people do disagree. So give up if you want but I don't really believe you will I don't think give up is part of your personality. Hang in there buddy!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Apr 23, 2011, at 7:59 AM

Americans showing their support for the next Republican Party candidate for the Presidency.


"You're Fired!/I quit!"

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Apr 23, 2011, at 5:48 AM

"Donald Trump is turning Republican Party heads"


"Has the GOP found its trump card?"


"The Donald Does Boca Tea Party"


I am glad to see the Teaparty getting behind Donald Tump's bid for the Republican Party Presidential ticket.

It just makes good sense!

I am hoping for a Trump/Palin ticket representing the Republican cause (whatever that is).

At least it would keep the election intersting lol lol lol lol...

and remember our rallying cry folks,

"You're Fired!/I quit!"

It just somehow seems to say it all...

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Apr 23, 2011, at 12:11 AM

I hear you loud, and clear rr3. Your way, or the highway. Let me ask you this one last question. Under that circumstance is there any valid reason why we should continue discourse? From this point forward why not just consider my questions rhetorical, as they won't be directed toward you.

Discussion with you is as futile as Obama trying to find common ground with a ridiculous Republican House majority. Yap at my heels if you like, but I won't even launch a backward kick.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Apr 22, 2011, at 10:02 PM

How many think Obama's task force will make a dimes worth of difference in the gas prices? Or is it being done for political reasons? Do they really care what the price of gas is?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Apr 22, 2011, at 9:26 PM

Don't you all blame the conservatives for everything?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Apr 22, 2011, at 9:13 PM

That's the problem okr why do you think I am to be one to compromise and agree with you? I guess that would mean I would lose no thanks I won't play your game. Oh and Nana I can blame Clinton too it doesn't matter to me if they are black or white I blame all liberals equally. I am an equal opportunity blamer.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Apr 22, 2011, at 9:06 PM

Yeh rr3, I don't know how HAPPILY he is doing it, but he is doing it. And just think there are a whole bunch of Republicans willing to take his place doing the same thing.

It will continue until we the people get it together enough to stop it. Will that happen? I don't know. Heck, you, and I both concerned about the status quo, can't bring ourselves to accord on anything. Doesn't leave much room for hope does it? Maybe I should say it this way, hoping I am wrong in my opinion. Can you think of anything about which you agree with me?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Apr 22, 2011, at 6:11 PM


-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Apr 22, 2011, at 6:02 PM

The Syrian death toll for the day continues to rise. Yeh that's it Phil! However our statesmen are asking Syria to please play nice. Another gutsy move against tyrany. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/22...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Apr 22, 2011, at 6:01 PM

Phil we will not go into Syria unless their is no good reason for America to be there. I mean we have a president happily presiding over the decline of America.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Apr 22, 2011, at 6:00 PM

I'm sure that can't be it. Maybe we are just waiting for a coalition of Jordan, Lebanon, and Israel to take the lead. After all, we wouldn't want to use our military might without someone else being in charge.

-- Posted by Philemon on Fri, Apr 22, 2011, at 3:24 PM

Syria's oil production peaked in 1996, and reserves continue to decline. Their oil reserves are suchthat there are technical problems with extraction. Syria is trying to make their country more petro-efficient due to diminishing reserves.

Gee Philemon do you suppose that has anything to do with our lack of official outrage, and lack of coverage in the MSN? Tell me it ain't so.


-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Apr 22, 2011, at 2:42 PM

Another 49 killed in Syria today, including a small child. Where is the outrage? when do we start dropping bombs? How much oil do they have?

-- Posted by Philemon on Fri, Apr 22, 2011, at 2:26 PM

They can do what they want,as long as the People let them do it? When more than half sit home every Election Day! Nobody gets in their face,and that's what its going to take! I think that's bold,to do whats being done in Wisconsin & Michigan! And they get away with it? The People aren't tough enough with their peaceful stanch on the subject.Revolt,and drag the SOB OUT OF THEIR OFFICE! recall TAKE TOO LONG?

-- Posted by Jo on Fri, Apr 22, 2011, at 5:32 AM

Two faced hypocritical mercenary bast**ds. How I despise our corporatist government.

Thanks for the link anyway ND.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Apr 21, 2011, at 10:48 PM

Sleazy Republican U. S. Senator resigns, rather than have published, a congressional report covering his moral, and ethical corruption. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/21...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Apr 21, 2011, at 10:16 PM

ND your coffee party link was an excellent read. I recommend it to every one. Left, Right, and Center.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Apr 21, 2011, at 2:43 PM

If you really cared about job growth and what you had been doing for two years is definitely not working what would you do? Would you double down on failure and just do more of what is not working or would you change policy? I think it depends on what they think will work best to get re-elected. Jobs and $5 gas doesn't matter when you have a Democrat in office.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Apr 20, 2011, at 6:08 PM

The funny thing is OKR, history has taught us that the folks who cater to the rich are the first to cry when they realize they have been used against themselves.

When the enablers of rich fascists actually have to live in the World the rich fascists want, they tend to scream the loudest.

I say if America wants fascism...so be it! Have at it and see how much they like it when they no longer have the power to change it.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Apr 20, 2011, at 11:47 AM

Good links News. Greed is an addiction, with the urge to take more, and more uncontrollable by those addicted. Those links prove the point.

The Greed addicts are in no different a position than if drug addicts no longer were restricted from purchasing whatever they wanted at a pharmacy. They own our government., and can do what they will. Just as would the drug addicts they will finally take so much that they will unravel. It will be the people that terminate them, not our government. Off with the Greedheads!

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Apr 20, 2011, at 10:05 AM

"Maddow: Mich. Gov. Snyder using new 'Emergency Financial Managers' law to assist corporate land grab from the poor"


-- Posted by news across on Wed, Apr 20, 2011, at 4:22 AM

"Gov. Walker planning 'financial martial law' in Wisconsin"


-- Posted by news across on Wed, Apr 20, 2011, at 4:02 AM

Fox news makes a mistake by allowing a Democrat on one of their shows and he calls them on their lies about health care reform.


-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Apr 19, 2011, at 10:45 PM

Cheesehead thanks for the small crowd/boo link.

The Tea Party are right to be angry. Speculating optimistically it may be that the corporatists ability to channel the anger of those folk is about to fail.

The greedy corporatists bas**rds have stolen from the Tea Partiers just as they have from every one else. Their unquenchable greed eventually will lead them to squeezing more, and more until they have gone too far, and it is likely that when that time comes, the Tea Party will be right at the front of the mob with the rest of the populists screaming off with their heads.

They will be their own undoing, they can't stop themselves.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Apr 19, 2011, at 6:32 PM

Thanks Nana, you are welcome.

You got any more like that Cheesehead? LOL

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Apr 19, 2011, at 6:20 PM

Amen rr3!

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Apr 19, 2011, at 2:46 PM

CNN and Fox Ignore Small Crowd Sizes and Palin Being Booed in Their Coverage of 'Tea Party' Tax Day Protests


-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Apr 19, 2011, at 12:31 PM

Sounds like we may be in Libya for the long haul. Who told us NATO was taking this over? They lied. NATO is finding they don't have the fire power since European countries have gutted their military for the last 50 years in their effort to just get along. We are still flying a third of the sorties. Then NATO says today that you can only do so much with air strikes. HINT! HINT! Let's see the next step will be boots on the ground don't you think?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Apr 19, 2011, at 12:13 PM

What would Jesus tax? http://www.ips-dc.org/articles/what_woul...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Apr 19, 2011, at 12:21 AM

A new trump ticket slogan "We shall overcomb"

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Apr 19, 2011, at 12:15 AM

In some recent polls the Dems pick Obama over Sheen for Pres in 2012, and for Repubs they pick Palin over Sheen for Pres. Here comes the kicker indepedants pick Obama over Sheen for pres, but Independants would rather see Charlie Sheen as our next President rather that Sarah Palin. I think we might like some of his policies.


-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Apr 19, 2011, at 12:06 AM

"Palin, Breitbart booed at tea party event"

with complete coverage video


I wonder if the mainstream media in the USA showed this one on the 6:00 news?


-- Posted by news across on Mon, Apr 18, 2011, at 4:39 PM

Ditto Cheesehead. (May I use Ditto?)

Dead on Phil. The N word has just gone under ground, at least among adults who have a hard time letting go of their formative past.

However I am encouraged that the teenagers of the day in many circles have let it go. In fact they refer to kids as multiracial on a regular basis. Now if the little turkeys would drop, "that's so gay", and "faggot" they would get another gold star from me.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Apr 18, 2011, at 11:14 AM

Best thing I've ever seen you come up with Cheesehead. I have to remember you're fired/I quit. Love it.

Been out of town for the weekend. If I caught up on all of the comments correctly, the answer to my question was no, nobody knew anything about Herman Cain except that he must be a token black man blind to the blatant racism around him. I've never been to a tea party rally, and probably never will, but I've found over the years that I could find racism almost anywhere (even at church) and hear the N word regardless of political party or for that matter the color of the skin of the people I was around.

-- Posted by Philemon on Mon, Apr 18, 2011, at 8:06 AM


I love the new slogan....

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Apr 18, 2011, at 4:20 AM

Fox Panel Paints Food Stamp Recipients as Nanny State and Crack Cocaine Addicts. Also notice in this video how its 5 against 1 which Fox news does on a routine basis to try to discredit counter arguments. How does anybody that watches Fox actually think they are well informed?


-- Posted by cheesehead on Sun, Apr 17, 2011, at 11:51 PM

I cant wait to see the Trump/Palin ticket. A good slogan for this pair would be your fired/I quit. I could imagine seeing those signs in everyones yard.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Sun, Apr 17, 2011, at 11:41 PM

Nana how do you know whether anyone does something not in their PERSONAL SELF INTEREST? What do you do that is not in your PERSONAL SELF INTEREST? I mean come on I wouldn't make that claim about anyone, that's lower than a snake's belly in a wagon rut. Then you claim to be one of the compassionate one's. Simply amazing! Sounds like a politician running for office.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Apr 17, 2011, at 9:42 PM

Well come on folks...let's all get behind Trump/Palin for the Republican Party Presidential ticket.

Let's get in there and win one for the Trumper!!

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Apr 17, 2011, at 5:01 PM

I think Palin/Bachmann would be the best ticket for the Republican Party in 2012, though RAND Paul, and Creflo Dollar does have a certain symbolic symbiosis.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Apr 17, 2011, at 4:47 PM

Oh come on Nan, you know a Trump/Palin Republican ticket would be the best possible Republican Presidential ticket we could possibly hope for!


-- Posted by news across on Sun, Apr 17, 2011, at 3:38 PM



-- Posted by news across on Sun, Apr 17, 2011, at 3:35 PM

I am supporting Donald Trump as the Republican Presidential Candidate.

Clearly he is the best possible nominee to head the Republican Party Presidential ticket.

Is a Trump/Palin ticket in the offing?


-- Posted by news across on Sun, Apr 17, 2011, at 5:12 AM

"Obama kicks off 2012 campaign Promises to close Gitmo if elected" http://www.ironictimes.com/

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Apr 17, 2011, at 12:45 AM

More evidence that the Tea Party is connected to, infiltrated by, and supported by, overtly, proudly, racist groups. http://www.bluenc.com/report-connects-te...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Apr 17, 2011, at 12:34 AM

Nanodot i can remember when we were coming out of it, witch took a good 10 years just to get back too work, for my People! Thank to the Shoe Factory,Ice Plant , Stampers! We were very poor! So i know of what you speak! I guess you had to be there,even as a child to really know! History just don't implant it in your brain,like living it?

-- Posted by Jo on Sat, Apr 16, 2011, at 10:24 PM

nanadot.. sorry to burst your bubble but BOTH parties are equally guilty in giving what big special interest groups want.... that is where their campaign donations come from. Repubs are no different than Dems and have never been different in this aspect... they ALL are slaves to the campaign contributions.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Apr 16, 2011, at 8:07 PM

nanadot... AGAIN Avoiding the actual question I asked... WHAT entitlement program has SOLVED a social problem. Has welfare gotten people OUT of poverty, reduced poverty or prevented people from becoming perpetual mambers of the entitlement class where their children and grandchildren are born into poverty and the entitlement life style?

Can you answer that question?

Has social security been robbed of the excess monies by politicians of BOTH parties during the times when the majority of the population was paying into SSI so that now when the majority of people are going to be the ones obtaining monies and less people are paying into SSI so that SSI is underfunded and the government owes with interest funds to be paid back to SSI?

Do we have a 14 TRILLION dollar deficit? If we are using imaginary money and money borrowed from peter to pay paul in the government and from foreign governments should we be just spending more and more money like we are living in the roaring twenties?

Liberals too are ignoring history... like in the roaring twenties people borrowed and spent like crazy thinking that the good ole days were never going to end therefore they did not plan for the bad. Bigger and bigger and bigger government and spending and red tape is NOT going to cure our economic problems and NEVER HAS NEVER WILL. All it does is prolong the hard times that we have to suffer though to come out on the other side of the business cycle. Spending what we dont have and increasing entitlements like the huge disaster of Obamacare is only making things worse by spending MORE money we dont have.

So Answer my question... what entitlement system has SOLVED social problems.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Apr 16, 2011, at 8:06 PM

News and Nana how is back then any different then now. We have the ultra wealthy, people die, people starving, people are still hunted down you hear it on the news all the time, and some segments of the population are treated like pests. Where is the improvement after all these years has anything really changed.

And Nana in regards to your post about abortion is legal to make it medically sanitary and safe. I wonder should we legalize stabbing so the weapon used would be medically sanitary and safe but I guess some one would still have to die. But lets see abortion is medically sanitary and safe but some one still has to die where is the difference?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Apr 16, 2011, at 5:12 PM


Again, you are exactly right.

Well said!!

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Apr 16, 2011, at 4:00 PM

Okr isn't the government already taking more of my money and giving to entitlements. I mean the president's proposed budget expands our "nanny state". So comment on that or call me a racist take your pick buddy.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Apr 16, 2011, at 10:21 AM

But cheese they paid their taxed to the Democratic party. Why don't you look that one up? Who let them get by with that?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Apr 16, 2011, at 10:11 AM

Okr how do you define racism? I mean the brush is pretty broad for you libs. I think its stupid let's discuss our differences instead of resorting to name calling when you don't agree. If I don't agree with people 70 years old or older no matter what they say would I be racist? Come on okr you usually do better than that.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Apr 16, 2011, at 10:09 AM

Sorry I missed your comments Miss October and OKR, from last weekend... I am not trying to convince anyone of anything.... you can vote how ever you want... BUT you still failed to answer my question without bashing Republicans in the tired old arguments about how horrible Republicans are and how they hate the poor and how they hate decent wages.

PLEASE tell me how ANY social welfare program or entitlement program has SOLVED any social problem. Please tell me how it has reduced the numbers of poor, reduced the numbers of homeless, reduced the numbers of addicts, reduced the generational poverty where the every subsequent generation born into poverty stays in poverty? Solutions to social problems such as poverty should NOT be handouts that are there ONLY to provide some money to help you barely make it to the next handout out or to make you somewhat comfortable so that you become addicted to the hand outs.

The problem is NOT a Dem versus Repub one and BOTH parties are to blame. One loves tax payer funded entitlements to make the leftist elite feel better about their selves and to create a slave class of people who vote in block for the Dems and the other party is made up of one part that is RINO and votes with the Dems on these issue or at least they do not vote against these entitlements and the other half of the party are to strict in their "Individuals should be able to fend for their selves" attitude.

NOT ONE honest, national and VERY PUBLICA look into WHY people are poor and stay poor because an honest look would prove that these entitlements FAIL to move people from poverty to a place where they can take care of their selves... It would demonstrate that entitlements, as they are right now does not breed desire in individuals to overcome obstacles in life AND an honest look would force the right to admit that there are corporations and businesses and rich people who take advantage of uneducated and poor people.

Social issues and problems should not even be a Political issue, it should be a societal and local issue that people address locally and regionally to help out their neighbor, where the community takes pride in banding together to look after those who are unable to function to provide for their selves and to kick the behinds of those who are lazy and who make bad choices to help them get back on the right path.

We are too scared of tough love and bleeding hearts find too many scape goats and exuses... maybe rock crushing and hard labor were not bad things.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Apr 16, 2011, at 12:40 AM

OKR... dont you know by now that this early in the Pres Campaign season we will see the favored candidate change a ton of times? The media will try to influence this pattern, especially when strong candidates come out and are taking the lead... the main stream media will be working OVERTIME to keep Obama in place, again with NO hard questions of Obama and sensationalizing any thing they can about ANY candidate that they might think could give Obama problems...


-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Apr 16, 2011, at 12:25 AM

OKR... those are the bedfellow that Obama has CHOOSEN...

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Apr 16, 2011, at 12:23 AM

News... it is sad that we have people who think we should not do EVERYTHING possible to protect our people from terrorists... it is sad that we have people who cannot call muslim terrorists muslim terrorists. It is sad that we have people who want to be appeasers even though France and European nations have proven over and over that nations of appeasors get destroyed and overrun by the likes of Hitler's Nazi Germany because they give away the farm, their dog, their children in futile hopes that the aggressor will stop after each give away.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Apr 16, 2011, at 12:21 AM

news... you actually have no clue what makes up a tea party person... lol they are NOT radicals, they are simply people fed up with corruption, big spending and government intrusion into our lives in EVERY aspect possible. They are made up of people from all political aspects. YOU are being foolishly led by the main stream media and their desparate attempt to put down real grass roots movements that go against the liberal progressive marxist and communist tendencies from the left. LOL

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Apr 16, 2011, at 12:16 AM

Cheesehead... GE gets their tax credits and refunds but then they are all tight with Obama and his inner circle... they are too addicted to the campaign donations (They ARE seeking a BILLION for this campaign run) so they CANNOT turn against GE or the other big donors to their campaign funds.. LOL

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Apr 16, 2011, at 12:14 AM

I don't get it rr3 this thread was about racism. Were you changing the subject because racism is a characteristic of a good many of the Tea Party members, and you can't find a plausible denial? That is a tactic used by the likes of Limbaugh, and Beck. LOL

I saw nothing racist about any sign carried at the link you provided. I saw a lot of invective against a corporatist governor from people who were angry because he was taking away their contractual rights, literally taking money from their pockets. Understandable anger in my opinion.

I doubt that you would have any different response if Governor Nixon came to you, and said times are tough, I'm going to take more money from you, because I gave it to people on welfare which put us in a hole (that being the opposite of what Walker did).

Again all that has nothing to do with the topic at hand, racism, did you care to comment on that?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Apr 15, 2011, at 11:09 PM

One of the biggest questions I have is why are some of the most profitable coorps in this country like GE, Chevron, goldman sachs paying 1% in taxes or in most cases getting tax refunds when the middle class is being asked to give more and more. Here is a video of Bernie Sanders telling us about the biggest tax cheats in America.


-- Posted by cheesehead on Fri, Apr 15, 2011, at 10:16 PM

News I am surprised that you would be so hung up on racism when it can be alleged to be just as bad on the liberal side. I mean you liberals claim to be compassionate and all as long as you have your power and no one dares challenge it. The degradation of the family unit especially among blacks I feel can be traced to the compassionate liberals wanting people dependent on them. Heaven forbid if we would have an independent population I mean they might not vote for us. The racist are the one's making the claim that someone is racist because they don't agree. I know you have a much better argument then racism I mean really. You allege the N word was used and the signs but nothing about the vileness and the words used in the protest in Wisconsin. Here is an example of some of the signs in Wisconsin. But hey maybe they were tea partiers or Republicans yeh that's it. Couldn't be a liberal union person now could it.


-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Apr 15, 2011, at 9:08 PM

Nd your link makes me wonder how that poll would have played out in Marshall, the site of three racist lynchings, and one burning at the stake, all in one day, during the civil war.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Apr 15, 2011, at 7:38 PM


There are already black Republicans...not many though because the majority of African Americans know full well the plate the Republicans want to hand them.

The tea party is not a political party. The tea party folks are extremist conservative Republicans -- ultra right wing Republicans. The Republicans are happy to have s few token African Americans (who in no way represent the majority of African Americans). This is nothing new and nothing unusual.

See Alan Keyes for more on this...

As to the many many many racists in the Republican Party who associate themselves with the ultra-conservative, extremist tea party branch of the Republican Party, they are racist not by the word of those of us on the left but rather because the various racists in the Republican Party extremist branch, the tea party, say they are racist with the words they choose to speak (the N word is quite frenquently used, amongst others) and the words they choose to write on their many racist signs at ultra-conservative rallies. They are racist because they say they are.

Their words...nor ours.

However, I have yet to find a Republican ultra-conservative supporter or sympathizer that seems to be bothered by the racism of the Republican Party ultra-conservative racists...aka the tea party...which leads me to wonder...

is it perhaps because most tea party supporters and their fellow travellers are also secretly racist?

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Apr 15, 2011, at 5:55 PM

Anybody know anything about Herman Cain? I heard his name on the radio earlier this week as having been a speaker at a Tea Party rally in either Columbia or Jefferson City last week. From what I heard in the short news story, he was very well received and acknowledged as the highlight of the rally. They said he was also considering running for President. Also, he is an African American. That is everything I know about him, so his possible candidacy could be totally meaningless. If serious, what do those who constantly claim the Tea Party is inherently racist have to say?

-- Posted by Philemon on Fri, Apr 15, 2011, at 2:42 PM


No doubt about it, Obamabush is just as bad as his Republican co-conspirators.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Apr 15, 2011, at 6:36 AM

Who promised no new taxes except on the rich of course but has proposed tax hikes in his new budget? Come on now I know you can guess who it is.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Apr 15, 2011, at 6:17 AM

Oh and one more thing mate...

Thank goodness I don't have to live in America (I can live there of course, but I choose to live in a free country instead).

Australia is not perfect, but they are not an imperialist Nation, they don't torture people, they are not allies with Al Quaeda or Hezbollah, and they staunchly support civil rights.

I plan to get as many of my family out of America as fast as I can before the Republican-fascist Iron Curtain makes its final decent upon America.

May God help the rest of you...

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Apr 15, 2011, at 5:57 AM


There are 3 major schools of thought on the history of American diplomacy.

1.) the Idealists:

The idealists believe that the United States only does what is just and right. These are the "God is on our side" folks.

2.) the Realists:

The realists believe the empirical evidence confirms that the United States does what ever it perceives to be in its own best interest...regardless of right or wrong.

3.) the Radical:

The term "radical" in this sense does not refer to wild-eyed hippies lol. Instead, it is from the Greek word which refers to the "root cause." These folks agree with the Realists but they also believe the United States is an imperialist Nation which is bent upon more and more conquests and empire building.

I think we all know the idealists are full of it.

However, our association with our new allies, Al Queada and Hezbollah, can be explained by both the rationalist school of thought and the Radical.

My fellow Americans seem blind to their own faults as a Nation and bent upon self-destruction...as evidenced by the Republican onslaught on the American People and the seeming inability of Americans to shake off the fascist Republican Party.

We keep doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

I have reached the point where I do not believe the American People, as a Nation, are capable of responsible behavior...and I am not alone...not by a long shot!

Trust me mate when I tell you the whole World is watching in shock while the greatest Democracy in the World collapses into fascism.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Apr 15, 2011, at 5:51 AM

I yield the floor. Anyone else out there? ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Apr 14, 2011, at 11:40 PM

It is said that politics makes strange bed fellows. Perhaps not so strange bed fellows as war. In Libya we are allied with Al Quaeda, and now, Hezbollah? http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/20...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Apr 14, 2011, at 11:38 PM


-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Apr 14, 2011, at 11:29 PM

Obama has aligned himself with Cameron of Britain, and Sarkozy of France by committing to support military action in Libya until Gaddafi is gone. (London Times exclusive)http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/

We have jumped into the tar baby of war with both feet, and now we have a hand stuck there. One more hand, and we will be immobilized. Insanity.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Apr 14, 2011, at 11:27 PM

More black men are in prison than were enslaved in 1850. http://www.laprogressive.com/law-and-the...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Apr 14, 2011, at 11:13 PM

An after thought, if all those I mentioned should magically return, and got their rail ride along with the rest of the moderate Republicans, the Log Cabin Republicans wouldn't have a stick left to build on. Wait a minute, they don't now. Now there is a group that I truly do not understand.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Apr 14, 2011, at 3:37 PM

Bravo Smart Dog. If Eisenhower, and Nixon reappeared today the Republican party would ride them out of town on a rail. Lincoln too, perhaps on a rail he had split himself. I hate to imagine what they would have done to Teddy Roosevelt.

The Tea Party is the tail wagging the dog, the wrong end for sure, and that smell reasonable people are turning away from is a sign of that. I feel sorry for moderate Republicans. Guess who has swelled the ranks of the Independents?

No offense intended toward dogs, mind you. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Apr 14, 2011, at 3:31 PM

Almost posted this rant on the home page, but then as I transpired, even I realized it was pretty political so I thought it would be best to spare the masses and play to a more appropriate crowd here in "Politics." It is the balance of my dissertation following the paragraph on the home page.

Haven't you guys heard? The middle is the new left, so if you are a moderate, "live and let live" kind of person, you are now a leftie socialist.

As the right moves farther right as fast as they can run, fueled by big money, it makes everything moderate appear more liberal.

A good measure of where we are is that ideas like eliminating medicare and social security are seriously considered as credible ideas.

So now, if you support just keeping the systems like they are today, you are branded as a left-wing socialist.

Social science in the 21st century is highly entertaining if nothing else.

Remember though, that the right wing social issues are only to woo voters, the real agenda is complete deregulation of business and shift of more of the tax burden to the middle class.

That doesn't exactly get the masses out to the polls to vote you in so the social issues are necessary as a tool to buy votes.

Hate abortion? Vote GOP.

Scared of gun control? Vote GOP.

Think public schools suck? Vote GOP.

Want your church to be able to get on the government dole? Vote GOP.

And once they lost control of the government.

Hate the government? Vote GOP.

I'm still waiting an explanation of how we are going to get out of the two wars they got us in, how they are going to repair the economy wrecked by deregulation, and how we are going to improve education while cutting funding for it.

But, alas, it seems that those topics don't produce voters at the polls, so they must not be important.

-- Posted by Smart Dog on Thu, Apr 14, 2011, at 2:27 PM

Funny, I knew that would get a rise out of you, even though if you will read my post carefully, I didn't say a single good thing about Fox News. I even said that I don't waste my time watching it.

Now, the one good thing I will say for Fox News, at least they admit their bias. I don't think I've seen that from any of the others. Of course, no bias would be best.

-- Posted by Philemon on Thu, Apr 14, 2011, at 1:26 PM

Fox News Presents The Zombie Women of Satan! Check out this picture!


-- Posted by cheesehead on Thu, Apr 14, 2011, at 1:08 PM


You should make a note that just because a source is biased in doesnt make it untrue. Not only is Fox news biased but it misleads its viewers also.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Thu, Apr 14, 2011, at 1:03 PM

Very good answer OKR. I don't waste my time watching it, but I've always thought that should be the same response to Fox News. I was just surprised that one of the biggest complainers about Fox would use a source so blatantly biased.

-- Posted by Philemon on Thu, Apr 14, 2011, at 11:52 AM

Philemon that is where the skill of critical analysis comes in. In my opinion the teahing of that skill is the most important thing missing from our classrooms. Every student should be required to take that course, and if the course is failed, they should have to take it again.

Will it happen? Naw. Who in politics wants a bunch of voters that they can't fool?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Apr 14, 2011, at 10:54 AM

From what I've seen, the poll could be totally correct, but coming from a place called crooksandliars.com, I'm sure we should believe everything they say and know there is absolutely no bias in their reporting or sources.

-- Posted by Philemon on Thu, Apr 14, 2011, at 7:48 AM

Good to see that those merry pranksters The Yes Men are still at it. http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/arti...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Apr 13, 2011, at 11:23 PM

Are the Republicans dumping Palin for Donald Trump? New Poll: Trump tied for the top with Huckabee,

Palin lagging badly. That is such a shame...for Democrats more so than for her ardent supporters who stand in the rain, and snow to buy her books. At least some parts of her supporters anatomy won't be numb if she continues to fade. http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_theticket/...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Apr 13, 2011, at 11:14 PM

Here is a web site, "The Unsilent Generation" that has a different slant, though progressive at its base. Seems interesting to me. Check it out, especially if you are a geezer as I am. I hope I didn't scare anyone off with that last sentence. It (not geezerhood, the web site) is full of vitality. http://unsilentgeneration.com/about/

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Apr 13, 2011, at 11:01 PM

Buyer Remorse: New Poll: House Republicans doing worse job than the Democrats did!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


-- Posted by miss october on Wed, Apr 13, 2011, at 9:56 PM

Some of you know that the United States does a human rights record report on some 190 countries every year. China, has this year done a report called Human rights Record of U.S. A. in 2010. It is at times informative to see ourselves through the eyes of others. At this link we are afforded that opportunity. http://usa.chinadaily.com.cn/us/2011-04/...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Apr 13, 2011, at 12:11 AM

I'm not exactly sure of the legal aspects or the rules that apply during an election and how the votes are counted, but it appears that 15,000 votes were found and added to the Supreme Court justice Prosser in Wisconsin and a member of the canvassing board knew nothing of these votes. So if anybody knows these rules someone help me out on how this could have happened?


-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Apr 12, 2011, at 8:06 PM

House progressives offer budget plan: Tax the rich, end the wars, slash oil subsidies, invest in jobs


-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Apr 12, 2011, at 12:04 PM

Why do I do things like that? Calamitous would have worked just fine. I hang my head. Jeez.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Apr 12, 2011, at 12:22 AM

In my prior post I had the effrontery to (as far as I know) coin a word. At the least, I should have spelled it closer to its root word calamity. So instead of calamatic, it should have been calamitic.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Apr 12, 2011, at 12:17 AM

rr3 thanks for continuing the discussion.

What do you think of a situation wherein there was different regulation for unions? For instance a livable standard union base wage remains in existence, as bargained between workers, and ownership, but to progress above that base wage proficiency must be demonstrated? In other words, get away from the inefficient seniority based wage scale?

I have never said unions were perfect. I know this will go against the grain of the dog eat dog variety of libertarians, but in my opinion, unions as all other entities, including Wall Street, and GE, must be regulated to forestall the effects of unbridled greed, calamatic error, and ineffiency.

Another way is simply for businesses to put in place meaningful profit sharing. That is a strategy that has been proven succesful time after time. Being my old far left self, I am, in theory partial to worker owned business, but I am looking for a compromise here, that Americans of all political stripes could in good conscience support.

Watcha think?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Apr 11, 2011, at 11:12 PM


So I wonder why we dont ever hear a voice from the Green Republican party on Fox News?


Yes I believe it should be a law that every Republican should have to work for Min wage for at least a year out of their life then maybe they would be a little more empathetic.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Mon, Apr 11, 2011, at 6:54 PM

Miss O how about the Environmental Radicals holding us hostage via the EPA? Oh you probably don't believe that. What about the Democratic Congress that unconstitutionally never passed a budget? I never heard anything from you on that.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Apr 11, 2011, at 2:58 PM

I found this artlicle on a Republican green party site. Even they think the Tea party are a bunch of radicals.

GOP Leaders Held Hostage by Anti-Environmental Radicals

April 7, 2011

"The failure of Congress to pass a budget and avoid a government shutdown is no longer the result of a legitimate debate about fiscal responsibility.

The failure is being perpetuated by House Republican leaders who have allowed themselves to be held hostage by theatrical malcontents pushing a radical agenda that has nothing to do with cutting wasteful government spending, Republicans for Environmental Protection, a national grassroots organization, said."


-- Posted by miss october on Mon, Apr 11, 2011, at 10:53 AM

I found this website and I didnt realize there was a such thing s green Republicans or Republicans for enviromental protection.


-- Posted by miss october on Mon, Apr 11, 2011, at 10:51 AM

Okr I agree with you to reward those that do more but your unions don't think that is fair. It's not fair for someone to make more then the other person doing the same job regardless of the difference in productivity. Some of your private sector non union corporations do that to varying degrees but we can't have them evil corporations doing that now can we. I mean those workers should be unionized so they can pay us to keep it fair. Because only we know what is best for them otherwise they couldn't know what to ask for. I mean we have George that is 20% more productive then Ralph but you can't pay George more because that just wouldn't be fair to Ralph. So who will determine what is fair okr? As far as I know it hasn't been done in the history of mankind has it? So now you have it we have producers and whiners does it ever change?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Apr 11, 2011, at 12:48 AM

Okr Yes! Sounds like whining to me.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Apr 11, 2011, at 12:13 AM

rr3 I thought you might fire up at the content of that link. In response you said "OKr sorry to inform you but we are only created equal after that there are no guarantees."

One of the "twenty items that we all should know" featured at the link dealt with productivity, and real income. It said before showing the actual statistics, "We are a richer country overall because of a spectacular rise in labor productivity. But who has profited from this rise? Although the growth of labor productivity has expanded total national income, the real income and wages of the median worker have at the same time stagnated.

Back now to your "after that there are no guarantees". Why shouldn't there be guarantees? What is wrong with guaranteeing a cut of increased productivity to the workers who provide the increase? Would it not be a proactive incentive to reward those who do more? I thought that was what we are about. You also spoke of whining in your post. Do you really think it is whining to advocate for a fair deal?

I yield the floor back to you. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Apr 10, 2011, at 11:35 PM

old chair... not playing any bush or cheney card, only the facts... I could use ANY republican candidate as an example... they would be all over Republicans if they refused to show documents that may or may not prove eligibility to run for some office....

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Apr 10, 2011, at 10:31 PM

Taxedpayer... actually the legal, signed, long form birth cert is NOT made public because of legal reason in Hawaii...AND if it was legal, then why does Obama spend lots of money with several lawyers to fight off the effort to make the real or legal document public?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Apr 10, 2011, at 10:30 PM

Okr sorry to inform you but we are only created equal after that there are no guarantees. We have those that achieve success and those that whine about how they did it.

How is that for fuel to the fire?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Apr 10, 2011, at 9:04 PM

Here is a link that is fuel for the fire on this blog. http://www.stanford.edu/group/scspi/cgi-...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Apr 10, 2011, at 6:32 PM

That's the thing, though. Obama's legal birth certificate has been provided. Birthers apparently can't take "yes" for an answer. It strikes me as comparable to those on the left who clung to the claim that Bush was an illegitimate president because of the Supreme Court's role in the 2000 election. I suspect no explanation of our legal system could dissuade them that Bush was legitimate. He was illegitimate because they believed he was. Facts? No thanks.

-- Posted by taxedpayer on Sun, Apr 10, 2011, at 11:10 AM

taxedpayer... I agree.. the whole birther issue is stupid... but is it not the fault of Obama for spending a ton of money and hiring a team of lawyers to prevent his REAL and LEGAL birth cert from being made public? Does that not stir up the conspiracy theories and keep those you call wacko talking about this situation?

Even Chris Matthews who has a man crush on Obama said Obama could end this debate once and for all. You can blame the so called birthers all you want but the blame lies squarely on the scrawny shoulders of OBama for prolonging this issue.

Why does Obama get a free pass from the main stream media on this issue.. not the issue of where he was born but the issue of why he is not making a simple form like a birth cert public?

The main stream media would be all over Bush or Cheney and they did pursue McCain and the main stream media questioned his birth in Panama more than they did Obama... hypocricy is never ending on the left.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Apr 10, 2011, at 10:36 AM

You might be a teabagger if......


-- Posted by cheesehead on Sat, Apr 9, 2011, at 9:00 PM

I was sorry to see Obama decide to run for prez in 2012, but I gotta say the persistence of the birther claims, now trotted out by Donald Trump, is getting ridiculous. It's like the Believers are immune to fact. It just rolls off their backs like water off a duck's back. If you believe in the intelligence of the American people, this is embarrassing.

Snopes.com has thoroughly debunked the junk and now FactCheck.org has revisited the claims:

"Donald, You're Fired!"


-- Posted by taxedpayer on Sat, Apr 9, 2011, at 2:07 PM

Who cares if we have $5.00 gas as long as we can support killing babies. Come on people get your priorities straight.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Apr 9, 2011, at 12:36 PM

"What's a few dead babies between friends? President Obama has no problem ordering a moratorium on drilling for oil, but he will not support a moratorium on drilling for babies." -Rush

This is the best one the Dems were going to force a government shut down if we outlaw government funding to murder babies. Who supports these people?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Apr 9, 2011, at 12:34 PM

"Jesse Jackson says the government shutdown would be a return to the Civil War. If today's troops still engage in battle -- if they go to war and execute the orders -- but are not paid by their commander-in-chief, are they his slaves? It sure sounds like Obama has more in common with President Jefferson Davis than he does with President Lincoln." -Rush

Ok liberals put on your discrediting thinking cap. Oh I should say I told you so.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Apr 9, 2011, at 12:32 PM

Nana that is just more fear mongering and you fell for it. lol

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Apr 9, 2011, at 12:27 PM

Cheesehead who are you try to invoke fear into then?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Apr 9, 2011, at 12:25 PM


The brains of conservatives process fear a lot easier thats why they always try to scare people into voting for them while us on the left can actually sort through and process the facts easier.

I hope this study will conclude whether these parts of the brain are predetermined or if ones enviroment affects them. If its true that your surroundings or influences affect this then we now know that watching Fox news will increase the size of your amygdalas.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Fri, Apr 8, 2011, at 10:52 AM

Socialism Won't Lower the Cost of Gas

"They actually believe that innovation, invention and radical changes in technology all come about because of government. In reality, just the opposite is true."


-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Apr 8, 2011, at 7:27 AM

The FED's Core Incompetency and Inflation

I guess if you throw out the highs and lows it doesn't look too bad. If we could personally throw out food and energy for our household hey everything looks good.


-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Apr 8, 2011, at 7:23 AM

Cheesehead the following quote is from the link you provided just before this post. "Individuals who call themselves liberal tend to have larger anterior cingulate cortexes, while those who call themselves conservative have larger amygdalas. Based on what is known about the functions of those two brain regions, the structural differences are consistent with reports showing a greater ability of liberals to cope with conflicting information and a greater ability of conservatives to recognize a threat, the researchers say."

If that is the case perhaps we on the left should listen more carefully to those on the right as to what threatens our country. By the same token those on the right should then shut up, and let those on the left sort out how to fix the problem the right identified. I don't guess that is going to be happening any time soon. You know what it might work, at least better than what is going on now.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Apr 8, 2011, at 12:15 AM

Political Views Are Reflected in Brain Structure

ScienceDaily (Apr. 7, 2011) -- We all know that people at opposite ends of the political spectrum often really can't see eye to eye. Now, a new report published online on April 7th in Current Biology, reveals that those differences in political orientation are tied to differences in the very structures of our brains


-- Posted by cheesehead on Thu, Apr 7, 2011, at 11:21 PM

Race To The Bottom: 7 States Where Republicans Are Ruining The Environment


-- Posted by cheesehead on Thu, Apr 7, 2011, at 11:12 PM


It has been some time since I read that series, and actually still haven't bought the last section on WWII, but much of it is centered on battles over the Oklahoma Territory. What reminded me of this series from the article you posted was the South's interest in Cuba and Mexico. It is very interesting who various allies would have probably been. Also interesting, how wars fought in Europe could have been much closer to home.

-- Posted by Philemon on Thu, Apr 7, 2011, at 9:48 AM

Thanks Philemon. I will be on the lookout for the author when I finish the current stack of fiction that I am reading. I don't think the name Turtledove will escape me, no matter how harried I get. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Apr 7, 2011, at 8:45 AM

Interesting article OKR. I'd like to recommend a series of fiction books to you by an author named Harry Turtledove, and I think News Across would be particularly interested also. They are basically a "what if" scenario where the South won the Civil War. The first is called "How Few Remain" and is basically a 2nd war between the states that kind of replaces the Crimean War in our actual history. Following are several books that continue the alternate history through WWII. Turtledove is a history professor and many of his musings of fiction seem very possible. The reason I think News Across would appreciate it is that the North ends up electing a Socialist government at one point.

-- Posted by Philemon on Thu, Apr 7, 2011, at 7:55 AM

This one is for history buffs. What was the primary reason that the south chose to secede from our nation? http://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/fi...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Apr 6, 2011, at 11:51 PM

Stephen Colbert is offering you chance to have everything needed in a post Glenn Beck world.


-- Posted by cheesehead on Wed, Apr 6, 2011, at 10:14 PM

Hey News. I knew that you of all the people who read this blog would find the story heartening, though I know others will as well.

There were some other things that I think may have played in the victory to some degree, among them is the fact that there is a relatively large Lebanese American population here, and they have been here since statehood. They are generally well respected business folk, and professionals, lots of Attorneys, Doctors, and Dentists.

Anyway I have done a comprehensive analysis as to why it may have happened, too much to go into here, and I am pleased as to what I believe are the reasons for his victory.

One question I have in my mind is whether, or not the fact that Oklahoma is way out in front in the theocorporatist takeover of America, the people have been afforded the opportunity to experience its repugnance earlier than elsewhere? Thus they are among the first to recognize it, and repel it. I don't know. I just hope this is a sign of more positive change to come, and that Dr. Shadid's election is not just an anomaly due to all the stars being properly aligned in this isolated case.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Apr 6, 2011, at 1:40 PM


Thanks for the good news mate.

It gives me hope just at a time when I find myself at the point of giving up entirely on my fellow Americans.

My wife likes to refer to us Americans as "lemmings." She says the name applies because we just seem to follow in line in every election and vote for the same bad guys over and over again...bad guy Democrats and bad guy Republicans.

Perhaps its time for the Unified Fascist Party to finally go (United Fascist Party = Democrats + Republicans).

We have a big election next year and a big opportunity to get those Republicans and Democrats out of our Government.

Its time to kick the Republicans and Democrats to the curb!!

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Apr 6, 2011, at 12:01 PM

Here is the story as reported by the arch conservative Daily Oklahoman. It is a slap in their face that Shadid won. http://newsok.com/ed-shadid-wins-oklahom...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Apr 5, 2011, at 11:52 PM

After thought: I think I will hang on to my yard sign as it is the first one I have ever had in my yard that was a winner in Oklahoma.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Apr 5, 2011, at 11:32 PM

GREEN PARTY WINS (In Oklahoma City. Unbelievable.)

Oklahoma City: An interesting turn of political events occurred here this evening. A run off election for a city council position (my ward) resulted in a liberal winning over a staunch conservative. This ward is a part of a congressional house district that hasn't sent a Democrat (even a Blue Dog) to Washington in over forty years.

Although the city council elections are not party based there was no doubt who stood where.

The establishment candidate, Charlie Swinton, is a banker, and a bank lobbyist. There was hundreds of thousands of dollars poured into his campaign by secret sources. He was touted by the ultra conservative powers that be in Oklahoma. He was endorsed by the mayor, and the chamber of commerce. His campaign bought a lot of television time, He won a plurality, mid forties as I recall, but was forced into a runoff by his opponent who had garnered slightly over 30% of the vote. There were several other candidates including a Tea Party candidate, all of whom finished in single digit percentages.

The winner of the run off is an orthopedic surgeon, Ed Shadid, who is a Lebanese-American, yes one of those Arab types. (strike one) He was master of ceremonies at a Ralph Nader appearance here a few months ago, and endorses Green Party positions. (strike two. His opponent, and his opponents secret supporter hammered at the Green Party affiliation. Screaming liberal, liberal, liberal in every venue. Dr. Shadid's campaign fund was largely self supported with some contributions from individual donors. He made a point to say he was not taking funds from PACs, etc. He was endorsed by the Fire, and Police Unions.

How he won in Oklahoma City is dumbfounding. I surmise that folks here are sick of bankers, and bank lobbyists, and candidates getting loaded up with secret sources of support. Maybe Wisconsin was on some folks minds. He was definitely a populist candidate, and stressed that in his advertising. GO GREEN PARTY.

A little aside: this is the first time in the forty four years that I have lived here that a candidate I voted for in a primary, actually won the election.

Hey if it happened here it can happen anywhere in America. Dream big.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Apr 5, 2011, at 11:29 PM

free will only exists when needs are met. a starving man could care less about whats right or wrong if he hasn`t eaten in along enough time and a drowning man will pull his wife under if he is near enough to death.

I didn`t look at what I sad about the man as a negative, I thought I was giving him a compliment as being WAY ahead of his time politically.

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Tue, Apr 5, 2011, at 12:04 PM

BFG I'm not sure of the context of your statement but it sounds like a heck of a thing to say about someone that loves you. Why do you think you have the free will to make such statements?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Apr 5, 2011, at 11:05 AM

I bet Joe the Plumber hates him.

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Tue, Apr 5, 2011, at 9:37 AM

greed is the root of all evil, free fish and bread to all, share and share alike, free health care, leaders who are poorer than their followers.... Jesus was a Socialist/communist liberal.

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Tue, Apr 5, 2011, at 9:37 AM

If You Think Unfunded Pensions Are A Problem, You Don't Know The Half of It...

"The piggy bank is empty. The underfunding problems that exist are a result of electing politicians who have made promises to state workers that they had no business making, as there is no way taxpayers can shoulder the burden."


-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Apr 5, 2011, at 6:24 AM

rr3 Not exactly disagreeing with you or the Bible, maybe just splitting hairs, but my take is that greed is the root of all evil, and that money is just how one keeps score. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Apr 5, 2011, at 12:33 AM

After my feeble attempt at a Bon Mot, the serious thought occured to me that as the "deals" I mentioned were the works of (in consecutive order) Theodore Roosevelt, Franklin Roosevelt, and Harry Truman who are all three ranked high historically, maybe we were just lucky to get three deals in a century. One thing I am certain of is that we are still waiting for a good deal in this new century.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Apr 5, 2011, at 12:26 AM

The thought just occured to me that we have had a Square Deal, a New Deal, and a Fair Deal, but it does not seem we are still playing with a full deck. Maybe it is time that we get a new deck of cards. I would like to see a green backing when it comes to that. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Apr 5, 2011, at 12:12 AM

It might be worth it Jo just because it would put the Repubs permanently out of business. With them out of the way the country would be able to make a come back pretty darn quick, especially if with the Repubs gone we could individually pick off the corporate shills among the Dems. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Apr 4, 2011, at 11:52 PM

I have an idea, Lets put Republicans in every elected Office,and really put this Country out of business! Good idea???

-- Posted by Jo on Mon, Apr 4, 2011, at 11:44 PM

Rand Paul staffers instructed to lie about his vote on March 1 where he supported a No fly zone in Libya. Paul voted for senate resolution 75, but now is lying to voters about this vote.


-- Posted by cheesehead on Mon, Apr 4, 2011, at 11:01 PM

This is a moment we have to make note of. Glenn Beck actually shows a moment of sanity on the O"Reilly show. Glen Beck even thinks Donald Trump's conspiracy theory is scary!


-- Posted by cheesehead on Mon, Apr 4, 2011, at 10:43 PM

Just like the old saying okr "money talks and bulldung walks." That's why the bible says the "love" of money is the root of all evil. I think that is true.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Apr 4, 2011, at 8:54 PM

Yeh I think rr3. What in the world are we gonna do? The Repubs, and the Dems both cotton to the corporates.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Apr 4, 2011, at 3:35 PM

Don't worry okr I wasn't trying to sell you a book in fact I haven't even read it. I simply posted it for entertainment value. I don't know if there would be anything in the book that we don't see from this regime on a daily basis though. It may be things we already know. Don't you think?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Apr 4, 2011, at 1:48 PM

rr3 I read your link to "Gangster Government". If you want to "sell" a book to folks that are not members of the right you are gonna need to provide an unbiased link, with reviews across the political spectrum. When your link features people like Ann Coulter telling me I ought to read it you know that is a turn off.

Thanks, but no thanks.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Apr 4, 2011, at 9:54 AM


I've been away from the net for a few days, sorry it took so long to get back to you. You asked basically why I don't vote for more left leaning candidates considering my score on that test. Basically, there are two factors involved. First, My score was only barely left, meaning more of a centrist, like I've always said. Second, I do vote for numerous left leaning candidates. I tend to try to ignore what party they are from and find what I think normally ends up to be the lesser of the two evils.

What I have found your usual attitude to be is that if I'm not with you completely all the time, then I must be a right leaning conservative that is always against you. It's not just you though, the far right tends to think I'm a left winger also.

-- Posted by Philemon on Mon, Apr 4, 2011, at 9:13 AM

You know every since welfare started there has been people too watch the scamers! I don't think there doing their job ,and never have? And if they keep having kid just too draw more Money, there has to be some kind of accountability! I still think the majority are trying too do the right thing,not wanting too be in that situation no longer then necessary! just a thought?

-- Posted by Jo on Mon, Apr 4, 2011, at 8:03 AM

The following link to a story provided by Spiegel, the German newspaper of record, is a very sad story that highlights the tragedy that our war in Afghanistan has become. In a microscopic manner it is a detailed mirroring of how the macroscopic effort has become an excercise in futility, a lost cause that due to political machinations may drag on for years, becoming ever more morally bankrupt, as it also is a factor in the fiscal bankruptcy of our country. http://www.spiegel.de/international/worl...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Apr 4, 2011, at 12:17 AM

Gangster Government: Barack Obama and the New Washington Thugocracy

This a new book some of you ought to read.


-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Apr 3, 2011, at 10:56 PM

Andrew Cuomo Gov-NY who some have touted as an up, and comer in national Democratic circles has a Koch problem. His campaign war chest has accepted ninety two thousand dollars from the Koch brothers. I wonder what they want him to do, and what signs they recieved from him as to what he will do for nearly one hundred thousand dollars?

I have scratched him from my short list for anything important on the national front, not that it matters very much. http://theunionlegion.blogspot.com/2011/...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Apr 3, 2011, at 10:52 PM

Firefighters, Cops Warn Republicans Anti-Union Stance Has Consequences


-- Posted by cheesehead on Sun, Apr 3, 2011, at 10:46 PM


I really hope your really just trying to progandize us into voting Republican and you really dont have to personality of a Glenn Beck.

Here in Missouri we have Republicans trying to lower wages and trying to make us work like slaves. They are also trying to make it harder to afford a college education and I think someone already mentioned headstart. So if your idea of happy world is wages that leave someone underemployed and making education just available to those that have the money to afford I sure dont want to be part of that.

-- Posted by miss october on Sun, Apr 3, 2011, at 3:51 PM

Further X-ray, I do find it hard to blame an individual born into multifaceted poverty, No books, little parental vocabulary, deficient amounts of, and the wrong kinds of food, poor parenting skills, if a parent is even there, on, and on. Yet we have generation after generation keeping the cycle going. We refuse to take the major steps necessary to break the tragic chain. Heck the Republicans are now insisting that we cut Headstart, something that has been a positive intervention to the problem. Well all that will do is help them support their mantra, lazy, immoral people, who prefer to live off the government teet.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Apr 3, 2011, at 12:54 PM

Xray a whole lot of words you put in my mouth. If you care to screen prior comments on this blog you will see that I have never said there were not those who scam the system, rich or poor. The difference is that the right has some sort of blinder that keeps them focused on the poor, like good little trained rats of their corporate handlers.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Apr 3, 2011, at 12:45 PM

OKR... so then you are saying that there are not a lot of people who scam the welfare/entitlement systems? Or that there are not a lot of people who are lazy and expect joe tax payer to pay their way through life no matter how many bad choices they make?

How about you entitlement loving radicals allow and HONEST and OPEN study into the REAL causes of poverty and the need for government entitlements funded by the government. But no... instead you blame EVERYTHING on the republicans or conservatives. Instead of creating a SLAVE class of people who never overcome the inherent unfairness of life because they have the government crutch of entitlements they and their descendents NEVER, for the most part, get to a place in life where they embrace individual responsibility for their own lives. And to further the Democrat, liberal, progressive leftist agenda you spout irrationally about how evil rich people are and how nothing is the fault of the poor people.

Why cant you accept the reality of the situation that there are good and bad, hard working and lazy, honest and deceitful, moral and immoral, responsible and irresponsible people at all socio-economic levels. NOTHING will every actually get SOLVED in socio-economic issues that keep people in poverty until we actually have an HONEST and OPEN investigation into WHY people are poor that gets beyond the political point making propaganda that claims it is "Never the fault of the individual" but ALWAYS the fault of the big evil racist rich white man and the big evil corporations that they supposedly control.

BUT when you actually sit back and look at it this issue is NOT about solving social problems but ALL about creating a block of people that IF they vote will ALWAYS vote for the group who gives them more and more free money and benefits.... Because IF we were solving issues we would require that people take personal responsibility for their actions, much like an alcoholic has to be able to stand before man and admit that they are an alcoholic.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Apr 3, 2011, at 10:58 AM

GE explains how it applies "Imagination at Work" to its tax returns. http://satiricalpolitical.com/2011/03/27...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Apr 3, 2011, at 12:17 AM

Hoovernomics is back, commentary by Jim Hightower.


-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Apr 3, 2011, at 12:01 AM

Xray I might consider your evaluation that I was engaging in false rhetoric if I wasn't still hearing, on a regular basis, the worn out canard from members of the right. It has become a cliche', and some have repeated it so often that it has become what I called it, a mantra.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Apr 2, 2011, at 10:45 PM

hmmm mine stated 2.93 for foreign policy and 5.22 on culture.

However, I have to say that that a many of the questions would have to have qualifiers not made available to actually get an accurate answer, at least from me. Example, the question about criminals not being able to vote... I think that for certain crimes this possibly should be true but for most crimes, if you do your time and parole/probation times and have fully completed your punishment then you should have the right to vote. I guess the point is that while reading the questions I felt that there were many that could not accurately predict my view points because the information was too vague or too general.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Apr 2, 2011, at 9:03 PM

OKR... come on... surely you can do better than spout rhetoric that is false or a distortion of what the right believes.


-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Apr 2, 2011, at 8:49 PM

Hey Xray, and rr3 are you going to take the little test to which Cheesehead provided a link?

It looks like most of the regulars, center, and left, have done so, and told us of their results.

Just curious.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Apr 2, 2011, at 10:05 AM

I really don't quite understand why the far right is at all concerned about unemployment. Such concern flies in the face of their mantra that the unemployed are just a bunch of lazy good for nothings who prefer to live off the government teet. One would think that their take on the situation would be that there are just more, and more lazy good for nothings.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Apr 2, 2011, at 10:00 AM

more continued sad news in the unemployment arena.

An important quote from this article...

"As unemployed Americans find part-time, temporary, and seasonal work, the official unemployment rate could decline. However, this does not necessarily mean more Americans are working at their desired capacity. It will continue to be important to track underemployment -- to shed light on the true state of the U.S. workforce, and the millions of Americans who are searching for full-time "


-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Apr 2, 2011, at 1:18 AM

"The people of the various provinces are strictly forbidden to have in their possession any swords, bows, spears, firearms or other types of arms. The possession of these elements makes difficult the collection of taxes and dues, and tends to permit uprising." -- Toyotomi Hideyoshi, Japanese Shogun, August 29, 1558

just a couple of interesting quotes...

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Apr 2, 2011, at 1:16 AM

"The national budget must be balanced. The public debt must be reduced; the arrogance of the authorities must be moderated and controlled. Payments to foreign governments must be reduced. If the nation doesn't want to go bankrupt, people must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance." -- Cicero, 55 BC

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Apr 2, 2011, at 1:13 AM

We all know that Obama and his minions always try to manipulate things like unemployment numbers and imaginary jobs saved numbers to make things look better than what they are for obvious political reasons, but then when the reviewed and updated figures come out or the additional data and numbers behind the numbers come out things always are way worse in reality than the Unicorns and Rainbow propaganda that Obama puts out.

here is another example of how Obama and his czars and minions have manipulated data and information into making the GM debacle to appear as if it is a money making experiance for the American tax payer who funded this bailout... but the REAL data speaks a totally DIFFERENT story than what you will every hear from Dems and Obama


-- Posted by mrxray on Fri, Apr 1, 2011, at 11:02 PM

People are just not that concerned,until it effects them.They won't even get out and Vote! Maybe that's changing now that the Republicans have done away with the Middle class! Seems everything they try, is against the middle class,the Poor and the elderly,the people who made this Country!We had better see whats happening and do something???

-- Posted by Jo on Fri, Apr 1, 2011, at 10:27 PM

Inthemiddle kind of like Obama.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Apr 1, 2011, at 10:25 PM

Hitler didn't disguise his agenda. He simply made it respectable. He was open about his intentions, most people of postWOrld War I, depression-era Germany either out-right agreed with him, or had sympathy for his goals, even if they found his methods to be unrefined. Sadly for the world, he gave his people what they wanted in addition to what he promised.

-- Posted by inthemiddle on Fri, Apr 1, 2011, at 7:25 PM

Thanks, BFG, that's a right nice thing for you to say.

-- Posted by Smart Dog on Fri, Apr 1, 2011, at 3:45 PM

there is a reason they call you "SMART dog"

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Fri, Apr 1, 2011, at 2:46 PM

To clarify the Hitler statement.

Apparently it is quite possible to get a majority of voters in a democracy to vote for things they really don't believe in by employing effective marketing of your candidate and disguising your agenda.

In my foolish youth I did not think that possible.

I now believe that it is not only possible, but somewhat inevitible when hunger for power and control by any political party exceeds the ability of the average voter to understand what he is voting for.

-- Posted by Smart Dog on Fri, Apr 1, 2011, at 2:01 PM

Following testing, I am a left social moderate.

Problem is, I used to be a moderate conservative around the late 80's to early 90's, then all the other moderate conservatives took off running to the right as fast as they could go, chasing after Rush Limbaugh, and left me here where I've always been.

Now I'm one of those dang left-wing, tree huggin', socialist liberals.

I have always thought regulation of capitalism is necessary, nation building is a bad idea, freedom means free from government intrusion into my personal affairs, and that success of the middle class is very important to the future of the society.

Apparently now those are left wing ideals.

Sheesh, life in the 21st century is mighty unusual.

Now I am beginning to see how folks like Hitler rose to power in democratic societies.

-- Posted by Smart Dog on Fri, Apr 1, 2011, at 1:49 PM


Since apparently from your scores you are a little more to the left than I expected then maybe I could expect you to support more often than not left leaning candidates. This shows that those on the right don't share your ideology as much as you think they do, so why consider voting for them?

-- Posted by cheesehead on Fri, Apr 1, 2011, at 1:27 PM

Here are my scores on the political quiz!

You are a left social moderate.

Left: 7.41, Authoritarian: 0.3

Sponsored Links

My Political ViewsI am a left social moderateLeft: 7.41, Authoritarian 0.3

On the left side are pacifists and anti-war activists. On the right side are those who want a strong military that intervenes around the world. You scored: -1.46


Where are you in the culture war? On the liberal side, or the conservative side? This scale may apply more to the US than other countries. You scored: -2.03

-- Posted by cheesehead on Fri, Apr 1, 2011, at 1:24 PM

To everyone,

I found this great political quiz test to see exactly where you fall on the spectrum. Its 50 questions and rates you as liberal or conservative and authoritarian or libertarian. Post a link for results.


-- Posted by cheesehead on Fri, Apr 1, 2011, at 1:14 PM

It's time for Person in every Town ,City, State to do the same as Michigan ! And show them we are fed up with our Representation from the top down,we own this Country not the Representatives! If they have to put all these decisions on the Ballot and let us Vote on them,its what they should do,regardless of what extra cost there is! We put them in Office, and what do they do,get there heads together with the other criminal cohorts and do what "they" want to do! We have to stop this through out the entire Government,we the People should have the final say! Don't you think? I think they have learned a lot from organized crime!

-- Posted by Jo on Fri, Apr 1, 2011, at 12:26 PM

Hey Cheesehead how about moving your political scale link to the new polics blog. Thanks.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Apr 1, 2011, at 11:45 AM

Wis. Dems To File First Recall Petitions Against GOP State Sen. Dan Kapanke. Its payback time in Wisconsin.


-- Posted by cheesehead on Fri, Apr 1, 2011, at 10:09 AM

Clean slate.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Fri, Apr 1, 2011, at 8:56 AM

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