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Speak Out [religion] February 1 to April 1, 2011

Tuesday, February 1, 2011

This forum is for discussing religious issues. The same standards of behavior apply as are spelled out on our home page in the introduction to Speak Out.

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rr3, you sound like u must be a preacher? Regardless, I have a question for you: Do you believe that had you been born to Muslim parents in Afganastan that you most likely would have been a Muslim? If so, do you think your life after death would put you in a place equal to where Christions end up? Just ask'n?

-- Posted by RationalThinker on Mon, Apr 4, 2011, at 7:26 PM

rr3yvo,

If religion were all it's cracked up to be, you wouldn't have to try so hard.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Apr 1, 2011, at 6:10 AM

Okr it will be interesting if they prove authentic. I think God will reveal things to us that will only prove his existence. Thanks

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 9:22 PM

rr3 I did not watch the video at this link, but I thought it may be of interest to you if you have not seen it. http://www.aolnews.com/2011/03/31/ancien...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 1:05 PM

Implications of Evolution in Morality/Culture

http://www.godandscience.org/evolution/i...

Morality - illusory or real?

"Not even the cleverest ape could be conditioned to be angry upon seeing one animal steal food from another."

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Mar 30, 2011, at 9:50 PM

Good Without God, But Better With God?

http://www.reginaldbibby.com/images/PC_1...

To what can we attribute the moral decline in this country to. With God? Without God? That is the question.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Mar 30, 2011, at 9:32 PM

So Nana if it is good for the group/tribe then it is moral to rape women and kill infidels like in Muslim countries? If morals were left to man we wouldn't have any. All you have to do is look at our politicians I mean they are only doing what is good for the group. Right!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Mar 30, 2011, at 9:11 PM

Okr if you think evolution is true how would it know to preserve the species? Where would instinct come from?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Mar 29, 2011, at 6:48 AM

RT it is not about being morally superior. Do away with the bible where does our morality come from? Are we born with it? If we are it has to be instilled in us by something or someone. It is easy to generally say the bible is bad but you give no specifics. I would be happy to discuss it and pray with you RT.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Mar 29, 2011, at 6:45 AM

Altruism is instinctive behavior, many species exhibit it. It is a tool that was developed through evolution for preservation of species.

It is biologically sound practice to, in most instances, treat well other members of your species.

Did God cause all that?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Mar 29, 2011, at 12:02 AM

RR3, I said I don't feel guilty about my desires. I didn't say I don't feel guilty for my actions, as this is a big difference. I have done things in my past, primarily in my youth, that I felt guilty about because we all have an inate sense of right and wrong. Right and wrong for most people is some derivation of the golden rule. The bible and Koran are horrible guidelines on how to treat your fellow man (or animals) and is rift with abusing women and condoning slavery. Do you think that without those religious books that you might have grown up believing it was OK to murder and rape or molest children? I don't need those books to know that those things are wrong, nor do you. In fact, it is often in the name of those books that some of the worst atrocities have been committed. Now, please tell me if you feel you are morally superior to me because those books guide you and those same books mean nothing to me?

-- Posted by RationalThinker on Mon, Mar 28, 2011, at 11:25 PM

So RT just wonderin'. How do you know right from wrong? I know we learn most of it from our parents but what about the first human to evolve from the primordial soup how did they know? You say you don't feel quilty for your actions then what makes us want to do right? Did you ever tell a lie or take something that wasn't yours and didn't feel quilty? If we felt no quilt then would there be any wrong?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Mar 28, 2011, at 12:28 PM

Oops Bad Link. Let's try again.

The Wages of Sin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jf1IP3yof...

www.thecartooniststudio.com

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Mar 26, 2011, at 9:42 AM

The Wages of Sin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jf1IP3yof...

www.thecartooniststudio.com

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Mar 26, 2011, at 9:39 AM

Nanadot, your youtube video links are hilarious. There is so much truth in exaggerated humor that it tends to offend those who find themselves in the center of those being ridiculed, especially when they've based their whole life on a total falsehood. I've always wondered how any preacher, rabbi, or any other so called spiritual leader has the audacity to even act like they have true knowledge about something they could not possibly know. I'm confident they know deep down inside that they really don't know any more about the existence of a deity than anyone else on the planet. To have lived your life for such a sham is so very sad. At least those videos have brightened my day with a big laugh, and being happy doing what you think is right is really what it is all about. We don't need no "stink'n" books to tell us what is right and wrong :-)

-- Posted by RationalThinker on Sat, Mar 26, 2011, at 7:43 AM

RT assuming you are not religious do you express your desires without guilt? Just wonderin'

I don't wander this way often, so sorry for not responding quickly. I have no guilt at all in any of my "desires". That's because I don't have any irrational belief in some crazy writings about tribal beliefs of what is good and bad. I have a very positive attitude and belief in what is good and bad that is not derived from tribal thought. Do you carry a lot of guilt with your desires that don't coincide with your holy book's writing? Just wonderin' back at you :-)

-- Posted by RationalThinker on Sat, Mar 26, 2011, at 7:21 AM

You can vote for one of Marshall's own if you like:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jf1IP3yof...

www.thecartooniststudio.com

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Mar 25, 2011, at 3:45 PM

Evidence for Special Creation From Scientific Evidence

http://vintage.aomin.org/specialcreation...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Mar 24, 2011, at 8:24 AM

Thanks OK Reader,

But I just posted the link.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Mar 22, 2011, at 3:32 AM

Good job WTF. I scribble, and sketch a political cartoon now, and then. Gotta say my drawing is more rudimentary than yours. LOL

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Mar 22, 2011, at 12:45 AM

http://www.sedaliademocrat.com/articles/...

Gays and Religion

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Mar 21, 2011, at 12:19 PM

Okr I believe God was. I don't believe God will say one thing now and another later for no good reason. God doesn't always tell us what we want to hear but he always keeps his promises.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Mar 20, 2011, at 10:27 PM

rr3 who do you believe was the first editor? My finite understanding of Christianity leaves me a bit befuddled. Did, and/or does God edit himself/herself? Could God have told us one thing, and then in her/his infinite wisdom changed his/her mind, and told us something else?

How can one be sure about any of the above, considering that God, if so choosing, can/did edit everything, sort of Editor in Chief, and even appoint other editors.

Whether male, female, or asexual, does God have the right to change of mind?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Mar 20, 2011, at 1:13 AM

News you might like this video with Lawrence O'Donnell proclaiming that he knows it is not the end of the world. Who do you believe?

http://thelastword.msnbc.msn.com/

All I know is that each day we are one day closer.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Mar 19, 2011, at 6:41 PM

Is the Bible Really the Word of God?

"It may be stated categorically that no archaeological discovery has ever contradicted a biblical reference."

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Mar 19, 2011, at 5:47 PM

What is really interesting Nana is that your article doesn't give a specific scripture as reference except the book of Kings. Asherah is also found in Deuteronomy, Judges, 2 Chronicles and several times in 1&2 Kings. It is always referenced as wood or a tree. If God had a wife where do we find that God is a man? We are made in God's image both male and female. Would God have a gender? The author of the article referenced Asherah as female but how would they know? The purpose of the article was to discredit the bible because of the many translations and because of that it is inaccurate. They don't really care if God had a wife or not because they don't want God to exist. We were made male and female for a reason so we can perpetuate the species. If he had made Adam and Steve the story would have ended their and we wouldn't be around to read it.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Mar 19, 2011, at 5:44 PM

News you may think your videos are entertaining but I do not see making a mockery of God as entertainment. Have you showed these videos to your pastor? Just to see what he thinks. I find then highly offensive and amazing that someone finds them entertaining but that's just my opinion. But of course I find some of your comments anti-american too but again that is my opinion. I don't want to discourage anything you post so carry on mate.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Mar 19, 2011, at 5:30 PM

...and one more...

"What Would Yahweh Do?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmhFniUTQ...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 17, 2011, at 8:40 PM

"Jay Spears: 'SMAK DEM CHRISTIANS DOWN'"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16R4aeYBX...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 17, 2011, at 8:26 PM

"Why Don't Bees Go to Heaven? HQ (man created god) AKA The Rational Anthem"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9bMi4s_y...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 17, 2011, at 8:21 PM

Another brilliant commentary by Edward Current.

"Checkmate, Atheists!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P47OC439x...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 17, 2011, at 6:49 PM

"Intelligent Design Really Is Being Expelled!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXf8COiHM...

Edward Current is brilliant and makes excellent points using satire, but most of all he is very very funny.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 17, 2011, at 6:46 PM

Very good analogy SC I like it.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Mar 14, 2011, at 10:34 AM

RT assuming you are not religious do you express your desires without guilt? Just wonderin'

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Mar 13, 2011, at 3:57 PM

So RT why do people get AIDS, why do people get cancer. I heard one newscast that said Japan is one of the most non-religious countries in the world. Is that true? I don't know. Could God have kept Jesus from hanging on the cross? Yes, but then we would still be living under old testament law instead of grace. Natural disasters are terrible and we wonder why they happen but good will come in the face of tragedy if you are willing to see it. If you aren't willing to see it then you will always wonder why. If you know Jesus then if you would die in a tragedy then it is all good otherwise it can be all bad. For Christians to die is to be with Jesus which will be far better then this earth where we live only for a moment. Do you wonder why we die? Do you ever wonder why the word 'luck' is not found in the bible? Why in the face of tragedy church attendence always goes up?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Mar 13, 2011, at 3:55 PM

What say any of you about this columnist take on the Japanese earthquake and tsunami?

A C Grayling "For if he is not competent to stop an earthquake or save its victims, he is definitely not competent to create a world. And if he is powerful enough to do both, but created a dangerous world that inflicts violent and agonizing sufferings arbitrarily on sentient creatures, then he is vile. Either way, what are people thinking who believe in such a being, and who go to church to praise and worship it? How, in the face of events which human kindness and concern registers as tragic and in need of help -- help which human beings proceed to give to their fellows: no angels appear from the sky to do it -- can they believe such an incoherent fiction as the idea of a deity?"

Oh yes, I forget, god works in "mysterious ways" :-)

-- Posted by RationalThinker on Sun, Mar 13, 2011, at 9:17 AM

I would guess there is a higher proportion of religious "pervs" than in the general population simply because those who call themselves "religious" probably suppress their their desires out of guilt based on a belief that someone is watching their every action 24/7. This is all so very sad how all these writings by mere mortals (in all relgions) plague large percentage societies all over the world.

-- Posted by RationalThinker on Sun, Mar 13, 2011, at 9:08 AM

NASA Scientist Discovers Alien Life in Meteorites - Again! NOT!

http://www.godandscience.org/evolution/n...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Mar 13, 2011, at 7:24 AM

The Myth:

Muhammad Always Chose Peace over War

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Muhamm...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Mar 13, 2011, at 7:13 AM

Nana the sheep were not blind or mindless for they knew the shepherd, all others were robbers and thieves. They only followed the one they knew. When one does not know the shepherd they can follow anything.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Mar 10, 2011, at 11:41 AM

God, the all knowing and all seeing entity that cares for the infirm and children alike......

I only wish that those who are incharge of spreading the word and bring ing the light of the lord to those who need it would stop covering up, hiding or perpetrating acts of sexual misconduct on our children.

let the guilty be ousted and allow those who have really dedicated themselves to the word of God to do their job. this situation in Philly is wrong and dispicable.

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Wed, Mar 9, 2011, at 2:21 PM

I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd. John 10:16

just sayin

zeke

-- Posted by zeke on Wed, Mar 9, 2011, at 1:54 PM

God was too busy...so he sent me!

http://www.breakingthetape.com/runningwi...

This is fiction no evidence of it be true!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Mar 8, 2011, at 7:58 PM

I see what you are saying SC but I don't see that God has given any indication that there is life anywhere but on earth. But I won't deny the possibility. I believe God can do all things. If God didn't create all the universe like the bible says wouldn't that raise the possibility that none of it is true? I firmly believe that God created all things and I don't believe that is being naive. God says we must believe as little children because when we grow up we have listened to and absorbed so much garbage it muddles our thinking. Sometimes I wish we could be like a computer and format our hard drive and start over.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Mar 8, 2011, at 7:53 PM

Give thanks to the Lord, call on His name; make known among the nations what he has done for you!

--1 Chronicles 16:8

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Mar 8, 2011, at 6:20 AM

Be joyful always; pray continually; give thanks in all circumstances, for this is God's will for you in Christ Jesus. --1 Thessalonians 5:16-18

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Mar 8, 2011, at 6:18 AM

SC how do they know that God didn't do it?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Mar 8, 2011, at 6:16 AM

Wow news how does that open a can of worms for religion?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Mar 7, 2011, at 7:06 AM

Nasa scientests find proof of alien life.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/digitaltrends/na...

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Mar 6, 2011, at 4:52 PM

Some Thoughts on Listening to God, or A Brief Theology of Prayer

Those of us dead to sin cannot hear God.

http://www.wesleyan.org/wlonline/article...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Mar 6, 2011, at 8:35 AM

Expect anti-Christian discrimination to 'ramp up' in U.S.

A couple in Great Britian denied to be foster parents because of their religious beliefs. Why have we always wanted to be like Europe?

http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Defaul...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Mar 6, 2011, at 8:16 AM

Stephen Hawking's Materialist Logic: "We Don't Understand How Life Formed," but It "Must Have Spontaneously Generated Itself"

If that is true why couldn't God have done it?

http://www.evolutionnews.org/2011/03/ste...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Mar 6, 2011, at 7:36 AM

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.--NASB

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Mar 6, 2011, at 7:30 AM

In God, whose word I praise, in the Lord, whose word I praise; in God I trust; I will not be afraid.

Psalms 56:10-11

We can be secure in the Lord.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Mar 4, 2011, at 2:05 PM

ND interesting commentary on infiltration of mainstream churches by subversive radicals. Thanks.

Also enjoyed your proper use of deductive reasoning. I think you are on to something Holmes!

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Mar 4, 2011, at 10:13 AM

Multiculturalism and Islam vs. Western Civilization and Freedom

What can happen if we aren't grounded in our faith? If we don't believe in something then we can believe in anything. Can America become and Islamic Republic? I don't know but it is something to think about.

http://www.capitalismmagazine.com/cultur...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Feb 27, 2011, at 7:18 PM

Why Go To Church?

A Church goer wrote a letter to the editor of a newspaper and complained that it made no sense to go to church every Sunday. "I've gone for 30 years now," he wrote, "and in that time I have heard something like 3,000 sermons. But for the life of me, I can't remember a single one of them. So, I think I'm wasting my time and the pastors are wasting theirs by giving sermons at all."

This started a real controversy in the "Letters to the Editor" column, much to the delight of the editor. It went on for weeks until someone wrote this clincher: "I've been married for 30 years now. In that time my wife has cooked some 32,000 meals. But,for the life of me, I cannot recall the entire menu for a single one of those meals.

However I do know this... They all nourished me and gave me the strength I needed to do my work. If my wife had not given me these meals, I would be physically dead today. Likewise, if I had not gone to church for nourishment, I would be spiritually dead today!" Thank God for our physical and our spiritual nourishment!

Come, let us worship and bow down; Let us kneel before the Lord our Maker. For He is our God, And we are the people of His pasture, And the sheep of His hand. Amen! Psalm 95:6-7

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Feb 27, 2011, at 4:59 PM

Its ok OKR...

Rant on mate...

Enquiring minds what to know...lol/

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Feb 25, 2011, at 9:06 PM

"We must not accept the church the way it is. We must check it with the word of God to see the way it should be." ---AW Tozer

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Feb 25, 2011, at 10:00 AM

Good thought SC some of us appear older than we actually are.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Feb 25, 2011, at 8:28 AM

Yes rr3 I had figured out that you were not a chronological geezer. My words, "I conclude from your remark that you had talked to teachers who taught before the nineteen sixties, which infers that you your self had at best limited cognizance at that time. If that is the case you are most assuredly not an old geezer."

I'm not in the mood to rant right now. Have a good evening.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Feb 24, 2011, at 10:45 PM

Not that it makes any difference okr much I think you are much older than me. If I recall you reached the big 7-0 just a while back. But I may be mistaken, no offense intended.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Feb 24, 2011, at 6:06 PM

Just like me rr3. A tendency to rant at the drop of a hat. Frequent uses of "back when", "in my day", "things were different". Far too much time on our hands resulting in long tirades on this blog. Tirades that 99% of people don't give a good darn about. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Feb 24, 2011, at 2:25 PM

Just wondering okr what an old geezer should or does sound like.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Feb 24, 2011, at 1:10 PM

Oh, yes, and rr3 I owe you an apology for calling you an old geezer. I conclude from your remark that you had talked to teachers who taught before the nineteen sixties, which infers that you your self had at best limited cognizance at that time.

If that is the case you are most assuredly not an old geezer. I referred to you along with myself as 'we old geezers". Chronologically speaking it is not likely that you are one.

But Lordy man, sometimes you sure sound like one. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Feb 24, 2011, at 12:32 AM

I often reflect upon what I have written on this blog, and have just done that again.

It was shameful that I did not mention my good mother as the original source of my morality. She by example taught me morality, she by her positive actions in the face of negative acts, taught me morality, and the difference between good, and bad.

Yet I never heard her quote the Bible, I never heard her use God as a reason to do, or not do something. She mostly set a good example, and was saddened when we children did not follow it. That itself cut to the quick. She was loved by all, and sacrificed herself for those she loved.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Feb 24, 2011, at 12:13 AM

Rr3 you said " Our morality comes from God and when you take that away, Satan has no morals. Without God how do we know good from bad?"

Once again you are being subjective, not objective. Far too often you state OUR when the only thing you can rationally say is MY.

Your morality comes from God perhaps, at least that is your belief. My morality comes from a plethora of sources, each source considered by rational thought.

I don't believe in Satan, nor do I believe in the Bogey Man. About the only thing I agree with you in your piece is that Satan has no morals. If something does not exist it can not have morals.

Regarding your statement without God how do we know good from bad? Perhaps your limitations make it impossible for you to do so. However for many of us rational thought suffices to discern the difference.

I think your big mistake, or should I say your primary mistake, is that you think we are all just like you, therefore we have the same needs. People are too varied to apply your one size fits all mantle. Your needs are not my needs. I recognize that, you do not. That is why I don't insist that you drop all your Christian baggage, and join me in the freedom afforded the rational mind. It is irksome that you insist that me, and others like me are wrong. Further it is disrespectful. You may as well say, "hey stupid you are clueless, only me,and others like me have it right". Do you have any idea how grating,and disrespectful that is to many, many, of your fellow humans?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 11:35 PM

rr3yvo,

"How many school shootings did we have prior to 1960? When was prayer taken out of school?"

"Without God how do we know good from bad?"

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 7:55 PM

What are we blaming the lack of God for?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 7:37 PM

rr3yvo,

Isn't blaming a supposed lack of god a little too convenient?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 7:29 PM

Yeh, a long time for the each of us rr3. My point was that your opinion was subjective, as was mine. I believe you insinuated that memory may be recalled to suit one's perspective. That is also true.

As to whether you are right,and I am wrong, or whether we are both right, or wrong, well, that is also subjective.

Anyway keep your subjective opinions coming, as will I.

We can let others decide whether they want to believe either one of we old codgers.

(posted in the wrong place first)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 5:15 PM

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 5:18 PM

Okr I think that I mentioned in my post that everyone didn't do it. That is a long time though to remember something.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 4:31 PM

Wtf isn't blaming the NRA kind of like blaming that evil gun for a crime. Just a thought.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 4:26 PM

Empress I do apologize if I have offended or talked down to you. I know a lot of times the perception of a post is not at all what is intended.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 4:23 PM

rr3yvo,

Maybe you should save a little of that blame in your analogy for the NRA. I've never killed anyone and I have no intentions of ever doing so, yet I am considered a godless,commie heathen.

Not too long ago, a "good Christian soul" blew away a doctor inside a church in Witchita. Are you sure you don't wanna tweak your theory a little bit?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 3:50 PM

And hurrah for Range Line Church, a little church next to the woods where I ate gooseberries with no contaminates after Sunday School, and Church.

A whole bunch of good country people were part of that religious community.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 2:16 PM

rr3 I went to a rural one room school house in the nineteen forties. We didn't have prayer in the classroom, in fact I don't recall God ever being mentioned. At the time there was not even "under God" in the pledge of allegiance. We were all excited about the United Nations being formed, and we had the United Nations flag on one side at the front of the room, and the stars and stripes on the other.

Nobody gathered to pray around the flag pole as they do today, it was just for the flag of our country. We had a place for our religion, it was called a church.

It was enough religion to go to the little community church on Sunday, and to church suppers, dinner on the grounds, etc. It was our community center. I joined that church when I was twelve, not because of any special call from God, nor even the preacher, that is just what we did. I never moved my membership. Why? Because it was about good feelings, enjoying, and caring for your neighbors. I never again found that degree of loving, sharing, concern for friends, and neighbors in any other church I attended. There is not a single one of those kids that I went to school with that did not grow up to be good people, and citizens.

Then your generation came along, forced to say under God every time you pledged allegiance to our country through its flag. The United Nations flag was discarded, so that we were no longer reminded that all the people of the world shared common concerns. You were forced to listen to prayers, that fit some but not others.

Who needed church anymore, you got it at school.

That is when things began to deterioate. That was the start of the great unraveling.

Hurrah for Prairie Ridge R# 44!

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 1:58 PM

I have talked with several people that were in school or taught school prior to 1960. They said the pledge and scripture reading was the norm every morning. At least in the rural schools in this area, I am not saying all of them did it but it was not unusual for them to do that. How many school shootings did we have prior to 1960? When was prayer taken out of school? Our moral decline will defeat us. When we take the moral foundation away what is left? When we want our children to be good we want them to act like "Christian good little girls and boys" don't we. Our morality comes from God and when you take that away, Satan has no morals. Without God how do we know good from bad?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 9:54 AM

I don't know Empress. Would you support the killing of infidels? Assuming you were Muslim of course. I'm sure we could talk and be friendly but probably not close friends. We tend to be birds of a feather.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 5:58 AM

Hey okr some good thought provoking questions there. I don't think being confident of one's faith is disrespectful of another. Everyone should be confident in their faith because if they are not then they will always question their faith. I believe accepting Jesus and becoming born again is the only way to heaven. The bible says that. I believe we are all sinners and can only be saved by the Grace of God. Is that arrogance? I don't think so, it is assurance of heaven God gave us through Jesus. Other faiths don't have that same assurance. My faith grows stronger each day that I study God's word, it's really hard to describe. I believe true understanding only comes when you become a christian, I just don't think it would be possible to understand it and not believe.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Feb 22, 2011, at 6:59 PM

By the way Cheetah, sorry I mispelled your name. Also my comment below is not a statement about your faith, nor beliefs, in anyway. You merely spurred my thoughts about faith. I thought I should add that as some times feelings get rubbed a little raw around here. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Feb 22, 2011, at 2:06 PM

A statement about faith on the political blog by SmokinCheeta got me to thinking...just what is faith? I checked several dictionary definitions, and they all said in one way, or another what the "Free Online Dictionary" stated "Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.

2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See Synonyms at belief, trust.

3. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters.

4. often Faith, Christianity, The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.

5. The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith.

6. A set of principles or beliefs.

When we discuss faith on this blog it is almost always in reference to Christian faith, with perhaps an entry or two that I have forgotten wherein it was referenced as religous faith.

We have all been cautioned, and rightfully so, to not disparage other's faith. Most of us adhere to that, most of the time, with occasional lapses into jocularity.

When we diverge from Christianity on this blog and speak of convictions, and/or beliefs, yes faith in other concepts, are we expected to, and do we afford the same respect as we do in the more narrow concept? Do we instead state flatly that those who embrace such concepts are wrong? Do we insinuate that such folk are subject to condemnation should they not change?

I am just mulling, and wondering? What do some others of you think? Do you believe that an assertion that one's faith is the only true course is disrespectful to those whose faith is different, and an insinuation that you are superior, that your reasoning faculty is somehow more competent than that of those who do not share your faith.

One thing that I have noticed (on this blog) is that the only ones who have asserted with certainty that they are right,and all others are wrong are some of the Christian faith. Does that imply a lack of humility, perhaps vanity, and an ingrained belief of personal superiority? Is arrogance at play?

Would not an iota of doubt in everyone's case build a stronger faith? By that I mean keep one working toward an ever stronger faith, which would not occur if one adopted a case closed, this is it attitude.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Feb 22, 2011, at 1:34 PM

While we are on the subject of tolerance, and respect I want to say something I have been thinking about for quite some time.

Over the last several years people have come, and gone on these blogs. I have missed several that were pretty much opposed to me on most political issue. White Tornado, AFBrat, and others, all conservative, who sparked lively conversation. More recently JohnHenry'sHammer has left the forum. All made me angry at times, but they also made me think.

It appears we are down to two conservatives who regularly post rr3, and X-ray. Stick around guys, and pull back some others if you know any. It will suck if this gets down to the left splitting hairs.

It is going to be ridiculous if I have to look for issues to argue about with NewsAcross.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Feb 21, 2011, at 11:19 PM

RT in response to your scripture references the first was God talking to Moses. At that time society accepted the use of slaves and God told Moses how the business of that should be conducted. Another was a lesson to not to bargain with God because you may not like the outcome. The rest of them details God's judgement on ungodly people. Man brings judgement on themselves. Does God allow abortion? Murder? Adultery? No God cannot sin but man are born into it since the fall of Adam. If God allowed it why would it be wrong?

Yes I still believe the bible is the inspired word of God written by men, chosen by God.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Feb 21, 2011, at 9:31 PM

News and Empress I really appreciate your concern but I made a decision long ago to not take anything posted here too personally. Life is just too short for that. Likewise I hope I never disrespect one of you intentionally. Sometimes we get caught up in the heat of battle and say things that maybe we need to slow down and think about for a while.

The only reason I made the statement about not participating in the Zeus topic is because of respect for my Lord. My faith is something I cannot compromise on and I feel that discussion bordered on being blasphemous. So as a believer I could not participate. The following link further explains that.

http://carm.org/what-blasphemy-holy-spir...

I really appreciate the respect and I will return the same respect. Happy posting.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Feb 21, 2011, at 9:19 PM

The Empress

Bare with me for a moment please while I tell you a story you might find amusing.

Years ago (yeah I am almost as old as the dinasaurs lol), I was watching one of the political panels on one of the big 3 networks on a Sunday morning. Its what I usually did back then on Sundays.

On the show were conservative Republican Senator, the Honorable Bob Dole (Senate Minority or Majority Leader at the time) and progressive Democrat Speaker of the House, the Honorable Tip O'Neil.

Throughout the program, Bob and Tip disagreed on virtually every issue that had been raised on the panel. In fact, their disagreements often seemed rather heated. Both men, good men, making their cases for their side of the argument.

Towards the end of the program the moderator said that they had a little time left and he wanted to ask them both about something not on the political agenda at all.

He wanted to know how it was that 2 such men, strong leaders of often opposing ideologies could be best friends in their personal lives.

Both men weighed in on it and they were in full agreement that human beings are far more than just their political beliefs. They learned early on in their careers that they shared a love of fishhing. So they began as fishing buddies and ended up best friends. Tip pointed out that when he and his bud Bob went fishing together or even just haning out together, they never discussed politics because there were too many other things to talk about.

I have always been fasinated by their friendship. They were best friends for most of their adult lives and this despite their radically different political ideologies. I really took that to heart. It impressed me.

So yeah, me and my bud rr have gone head to head on almost every political issue...but on the personal side, I have nothing but admiration for rr and I think he is a darn good person.

That is why I was a bit worried about my analogy possibly bruising his sensibilities...something I would never want to do intentionally.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Feb 21, 2011, at 4:35 PM

The Empress

There are a number of us who have been posting here for many years now. I am one. RR3 is one. and there are others of course.

Over the years many of us have formed friendships -- even across the political/religious asile.

rr and me are about as far apart poltically and religiously as 2 people can be. rr is a hardcore political conservative and a conservative Christian. I am a hardcore Socialist and a rationalist.

But people are much more than just their political or religious beliefs. Over the years I have gained a lot of respect for rr and frankly I regard him as a friend -- despite some of our differences.

I know him to be a good, compassionate person and I was concerned I might have hurt his feelings while having some fun with a new take on an old mythology. Yes I was making some important points. You are correct. But at the same time, I could not help but be concerned about my friend rr, and I wanted him to know that I had no intention of causing him any discomfort with my exercise in rational thought and analogy.

He is my friend and I care about how he feels. That's all it is.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Feb 21, 2011, at 3:58 PM

rr

While yes I am having some fun wiht the Zeus thing, please do not take offense.

There is no way I would ever intentionally offend you. I have way too much respect for you and I personally like you too much to ever do that.

I am just having some fun with a new take on an old mythology.

Its just some fun mate and is not intended to offend you or anyone for that matter. I apologize if I have offended you buddy.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Feb 20, 2011, at 5:36 PM

I believe r3 responded to my question about what parts of the bible he chooses to believe as "all of it". So, please tell me your thoughts about the following passages: a) The God of the Bible allows slavery, including selling your own daughter as a sex slave (Exodus 21:1-11), b) child abuse (Judges 11:29-40 and Isaiah 13:16), and c) bashing babies against rocks (Hosea 13:16 & Psalms 137:9). Do you believe these passages were inspired by god or tribal man?

-- Posted by RationalThinker on Sun, Feb 20, 2011, at 5:18 PM

One thing about it all of your post have some real entertainment value and some pretty hilarious. But we all know entertainment is not the real thing. I will take my chances and NOT pray to Zeus.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Feb 20, 2011, at 12:33 PM

News Across... thanks for shining the light on Zeus for me. Just the other day I had two strange people knock on my door trying to convince me Zeus was the one true god. I really feel bad now as I thought they were really crazy. However, now I know they had seen the lightening bolts that I hadn't been able to see before. I always wondered how anyone in their right mind could possibly think they might convert someone over to their way of thinking (unless they already were indoctrinated in the same thought) just by going around knocking on doors explaining how ridiculously crazy they had become. That bolt of lightening did if for me!

-- Posted by RationalThinker on Sun, Feb 20, 2011, at 8:14 AM

The Empress

I hope your comment was not an expression of doubt in Zeus.

He knows everyone's thoughts and he reads your mind at all times while he is reading more than 6 billion other minds and he knows what you were thinking. He doesn't like non-believers.

I will pray to Zeus for you.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Feb 20, 2011, at 12:11 AM

Smokin' Cheetah

Yeah a couple of months or four decades...all the same I guess, eh Cheet?

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Feb 20, 2011, at 12:05 AM

Well rr...

Lots of people have worshiped Zeus. In addition, there is an equal amount of evidence to support "Zeusism" as there is to support your religious beliefs.

So yeah I guess I am a devout Zeusian now.

I really do wish you would see the light and come on over to Zeusism. It won't save your soul -- we are all going to Hades when we die and be a ghost, every human soul does, nothing we can do about that -- but Zeus can be pretty rough on the living folks who don't worship him properly. He can make things real hard. So its better to worship him than to not worship him. I look at it like a kind of insurance. If I am wrong, I have lost nothing. If I am right, then I can expect not to get toyed with quite as bad by Zeus and his kids than I would be otherwise.

It was either Zeus or I might have gone with Pazuzu, one of the many ancient Hebrew demigods -- you may remember him from the movie, "the Exorcist." That was Pazuzu who was possessing the little girl in the movie (demon is such a harsh term, don't you think?), well at least that is the story Peter Blatey wrote.

I like Pazuzu. He is powerful, has magical powers, he likes to have a good time...what's not to like? In fact, I think he had real God potential.

So I tried an experiment to see which one was really God. First I prayed to Pazuzu and asked him to make it snow in Sydney the next day. The next day was the typical Australian, warm, sunny day. The temp was around 110 and no snow in sight. I even checked the weather service and they said the snow precipitation was 0 inches for the day.

Then I prayed to Zeus and asked him to make it a typical, warm, sunny, Australian day the next day -- and my prayers were answered -- it was around 110 degrees, bright blue, sunshiny sky, and not a cloud in the sky. So I knew then that Zeus was the one true and almighty God. Its scientifically verified.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Feb 20, 2011, at 12:01 AM

Thanks for clarifying SC.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Feb 19, 2011, at 10:30 PM

"Mockeries" SC? I rest my case!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Feb 19, 2011, at 3:59 PM

SC at least you are being honest. I think?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Feb 19, 2011, at 3:27 PM

Good Zeus! News you may be on to something. A lot of people would think it is just Zeus awful if you are right. If you are right one of the neatest things is we could curse like a sailor on this blog, not get censored, and Oh My Zeus would not bother the uptight. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Feb 19, 2011, at 11:13 AM

News are you telling us that you believe in Zeus?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Feb 19, 2011, at 6:09 AM

Well I don't know about you WTF, but here lately I have become convinced that God may be Zeus.

After all, we know how brilliant the ancient Greeks were and many very respected men of that time witnessed many of Zeus' miricals on earth.

I think that is conclusive evidence enough for me, but may I also point out that we have ancient documents from that very time that Zeus was performing great miricals...(some of the miricals not so nice, but what's a guy or gal to do?)...for mankind. Those documents...many carved in actuall rock (just like the 10 Commandments except that we actually have these rocks) are proof positive of Zeus existance and His great love of mankind.

However, the most convincing evidence for me was when I prayed to Zeus and asked Him to give us a beautiful day of sunshine today...AND IT WAS!!! Zeus answers prayers. All you have to do is believe and ask for what you want.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Feb 19, 2011, at 5:04 AM

rr3yvo said:

"A lot a people saw Jesus but not all believed. He was seen by over 500 eyewitnesses after his resurrection."

Ok, so you're going with that? Something Paul said but did not witness himself? I could cite many more examples of sillines in his claim but I don't want to bore everyone and it wouldn't matter anyway.

Faith itself is not evidence, but it can certainly cloud someone's perception as to what actually qualifies as evidence.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Feb 18, 2011, at 9:44 PM

Empress, I know your question wasn't directed at me, but since I have been so anti-religion in my posts, I would like to confess that I do have a great deal of hope for the future of human beings. The reason, however, is not because of religion, but in spite of religion. Think about all the turmoil in the Middle East and what might happen if everyone had an awakening and realized that there is absolutely nothing sacred about what they have all called their holy ground? That's not going to happen over night, but I believe that the internet will pave the way for democracy and rational thinking at an exponential rate. We are already seeing much of its power of communication with recent events in Egypt. An awakening will also happen as the large numbers of people who realize their underlying doubts about there actually being a sky daddy watching over them, and that being good and ethical has nothing to do with fear of punishment from an imaginary being.

-- Posted by RationalThinker on Fri, Feb 18, 2011, at 9:33 PM

In the long view, no. Still, on an individual basis one can,and should aspire to a righteous life, ever knowing, that there likely will not be a sufficient number who so ascribe, to change anything. Hope, at least slight hope is not extiguished.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Feb 18, 2011, at 9:13 PM

Rr3 you said to WTF, "If Jesus was standing in front of you would you believe?"

I think I probably would believe, or at least give the utmost respect. What I certainly believe is that if Jesus did come back, and started shooting off his mouth about his radical commie views he would be shot by some radical right winger, or locked up as a loonie before he got any where near where I am.

An unspoken other interpretation of the crucifixion story is that the people of this earth will always kill the pure of heart who condemn all of those who believe that each is entitled to all they can wrest from others, and glory in the accomplishment. Who trivialize those who have nothing, and admire those who have much, and aspire to the same material success.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Feb 18, 2011, at 7:09 PM

SC I never said that you were not a Christian. I don't doubt that. If we both read the same passage of scripture would we get the same thing out of it? So if you didn't agree with me could I just say that you didn't read it? I don't think I could read your post and always get the exact meaning that you intended from it. As for reading a post I stated that there are many religions. Because of my belief I cannot except all of them as true. My belief is not something I gloss over so I never offend anyone. I don't think it is something I can negotiate it has to be rock solid not wishy washy.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Feb 18, 2011, at 6:29 PM

You know wtf some things even Christians can't fix. You fail or refuse to see the context of what I said. But then if you agreed with me you couldn't disagree with me. Tell me what physical evidence would convince you? If Jesus was standing in front of you would you believe? A lot a people saw Jesus but not all believed. He was seen by over 500 eyewitnesses after his resurrection.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Feb 18, 2011, at 6:16 PM

rr3yvo said:

"Uhh! Wtf the people that were there had physical evidence."

What evidence? Evidence that a guy died on the cross? At that time cruxifiction on the cross was all the rage. Thousands of people died that way, not just "Jesus". If that is the evidence you are refering to it doesn't hold water. Now we come to the part where he supposedly got up and walked away after he died. That makes for a great story, but then again L.Ron Hubbard was also a great story teller.

Is there any physical evidence that exists today that I can go and see? Something in a museum maybe? What,specifically, is this physical evidence of which you speak?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Feb 18, 2011, at 4:44 PM

RT I don't pick and choose parts of the bible to belief I accept it all thank you.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Feb 18, 2011, at 2:19 PM

SC I never said that other religions did not exist on the contrary there are many religions. Many are not even named. I do apologize if I take anything you say out of context and when I do please correct me. I don't recall anyone that post here having to have certain qualifications before posting. You said yourself that it was an open discussion so why shouldn't I participate? I have read many of your post and do enjoy them but what you think of me and my postings has no bearing on my participation. I believe that any religion that denies that Jesus was the son of God and died for our sins and is the only way to salvation is FALSE! Just because we may not believe the same way doesn't mean that I nor anyone else cannot participate in open discussions.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Feb 18, 2011, at 1:27 PM

Uhh! Wtf the people that were there had physical evidence.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Feb 18, 2011, at 12:56 PM

Considering that Jesus was a Palestinian...do you reckon he had blue eyes and blond hair as he is usually depected? Or do you think he had dark black hair, brown eyes, and dark brown skin like all the other Palestinians?

What do you think Jesus would think of our support of Israel who regularly commits genocide against the Palestinians?

Do you think the Prince of Peace would approve of the genocide visited upon the Palestinians by the European Jewish Zionists who control Israel?

I don't think he would and if he really was and is God...then a whole bunch of religious conservatives are in a heck of a lot of trouble.

That is one of the many reasons I believe so-called "devoutly religious" folks don't really believe any of that superstitious nonsense they claim they believe anymore than the rest of us. Its nothing but lip service. Because if they really believed Jesus was God, they sure would not support Israeli genocide and oppression of the Palestinians.

Let's just call it food for thought.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Feb 18, 2011, at 3:38 AM

Rr3: "People laughed and mocked Jesus as he hung on the cross, but he still died for their sins just the same as he died for yours. That shows that even physical evidence wouldn't convince some people, so if that don't work I can understand why you lack faith."

The "story" in the bible of Jesus on the cross does NOT constitute "physical evidence". Christians take the bible as literal truth unless it is obviously inhumane, and then you just call it allegory. To use the bible to pick and choose is as ambiguous as astrology.

-- Posted by RationalThinker on Thu, Feb 17, 2011, at 9:54 PM

Physical evidence?! What physical evidence?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Feb 17, 2011, at 2:38 PM

You know WTF if religion is so absurd and hilarious then why do you try so hard to disprove it. People laughed and mocked Jesus as he hung on the cross, but he still died for their sins just the same as he died for yours. That shows that even physical evidence wouldn't convince some people, so if that don't work I can understand why you lack faith.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Feb 17, 2011, at 11:23 AM

SC it it hard to claim any religion as false if you believe that none of them are true. There are similarities in all religions but only one God. It really doesn't matter if you choose to believe or not but your decision will have eternal consequences.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Feb 17, 2011, at 11:19 AM

rr3yvo said:

"RT much of the bible was written before Jesus and foretold of the coming Messiah"

OK, The "Mesiah" could have been, and probably was, anyone that they wanted to give the title to. It's wouldn't say it was devine so much as it was just the luck of the draw. Self-fulfilling prophecy.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Feb 17, 2011, at 9:59 AM

rr3yvo said:

"Scientology is a false religion, a figment of Hubbard's imagination. The same can be said of Joseph Smith. The foundations are completely different from that of Christianity."

Dude, you are hilarious! How in the world can any one religion be anymore absurd than another? That was rhetorical. I don't need a long drawn out response explaining how Christianity isn't absurd, that it's the one true religion and that everything the bible says is true and evertything else is ridiculous. Alas, once again the irony is lost.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Feb 16, 2011, at 4:27 PM

Scientology is a false religion, a figment of Hubbard's imagination. The same can be said of Joseph Smith. The foundations are completely different from that of Christianity.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Feb 16, 2011, at 1:49 PM

RT much of the bible was written before Jesus and foretold of the coming Messiah.

http://carm.org/when-was-bible-written-a...

How do you explain why Christianity is growing faster in places like India and China, faster then here in the USA? Pleas reference your information for the facts.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Feb 16, 2011, at 12:49 PM

rr3yvo,

What are your thoughts on Scientology?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Feb 16, 2011, at 11:43 AM

I can't believe all the quotes rr3yvo keeps spouting from the bible as if it was more than allegory and tribal beliefs. The earliest parts of the bible was written over 50 years after jesus was supposed to have lived. IF he did live, and there is reason to doubt that, he was very diluded to believe he was the son of god, god, and the holy ghost. 2000 years ago man thought that sunamis and earthquakes were always brought about by supernatural powers as they didn't understand the science behind them. Jesus is the adult version of Santa. You that are christian are so because you were raised by christians. Had you been born and raised in India, China, or any of the majority of countries that are not christian, do you really believe you would be christian and not a muslim or budhist, or believe in some other supernatural being?

-- Posted by RationalThinker on Tue, Feb 15, 2011, at 9:08 PM

Critics Slam U.S. Government, Media for 'Weak' Response to Anti-Christian Attacks

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/02/15/...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Feb 15, 2011, at 5:27 PM

Empress I am really sorry you feel that way but if you want to end this discussion so be it. You don't have to attack my intelligence before you quit that is if you can't offer nothing else. That's fine by me because I know the God I worship and I am confident of my salvation. Are you? Nice talking to you though maybe we can talk again sometime. You know God never gives up. Thanks

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Feb 14, 2011, at 7:23 PM

I say it all with love Empress and wtf. Wtf's point is baseless that is why I questioned it. And Empress please tell me where you get your information. There has been more killed by atheistic governments than any Christians. Other religions that don't worship Jesus I can't answer for those. Their evil is not the work of God. God is not capable of evil but he is capable of judgement. All sin has a consequence. Most of the killing is by governments or empires trying to deny God. It will never work because I read the end of the book and we win.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Feb 14, 2011, at 5:26 PM

rr3yvo,

I did make my point, very clear and concise.

I guess the irony REALLY is lost on some.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Feb 14, 2011, at 4:09 PM

Wtf you know if you have a point to make please make it.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Feb 14, 2011, at 2:22 PM

"paranoia and ignorance "

It's interesting how those words not only apply to the Salem witch trials in regards to the reaction of organized religion to mere accusation, but they would also apply to sheer reason we even have organized religion in the world today.

"paranoia and ignorance"

I guess the irony must be lost on some....

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Feb 14, 2011, at 2:15 PM

The Crusades were in defense of the movement of Islam from the east. We know that Islam teaches to spread itself by the sword. I am sure we could find faults on both sides but Islam teaches killing in the name of their God and prophet. The New Testament teaches no such thing.

There have been times in the Christian church when those proclaiming to follow Christ have done horrible and terrible things. It wasn't done because Christ told them to do it, but it was because they didn't listen to the word of God. The Inquisition was a Roman Catholic invention intended to root out all sorts of "heresies." We could use the witch trials here in America where people allowed their paranoia and ignorance to overtake reason and scripture.

Do we consider the police force bad because of a few bad cops? Why don't we look also at the good things that Chrisianity does? We need to look at the whole of Christian history particularly the New Testament from where Christianity derived. We need to believe Christianity because of who Jesus is, not for what some so-called Christians did in error.

Empress I could post links to this very information for more detail but I hate exercises in futility.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Feb 14, 2011, at 12:51 PM

Are you saying the Christian's were responsible for the holocaust?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Feb 14, 2011, at 11:40 AM

Know therefore that the Lord your God is God; he is the faithful God, keeping his covenant of love to a thousand generations of those who love him and keep his commands.

( Deuteronomy 7:9 *NIV )

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Feb 14, 2011, at 6:48 AM

Empress I feel that I have answered your question the rest is up to you. Why do you think belief in God leads to conflict and killing? Far more people have been killed because of "government" around the world then religion.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Feb 14, 2011, at 6:45 AM

One site that I really like is www.carm.org. It is run by Rev. Matt Slick. Biblically grounded and sound doctrine.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Feb 13, 2011, at 1:27 PM

Empress I think there needs to be a base. To be a Christian I believe that you have to accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Saviour. You have to admit that you are a sinner and are willing to repent. You have to believe that Jesus died on the cross for all of our sins. If you believe all that then you are a born again Christian regardless of what denomination you are. After that their can be differences in opinion and points of view.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Feb 13, 2011, at 1:25 PM

The nature of God never changes. We were made in the image of God. "Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth," (Gen. 1:26, NASB).

Empress sometimes the links that a person post reflects what they believe or feel better then they can say in their own words. It can be said without a long dissertation, just enough to get your attention or pique your curiosity. As for equating truth to human thoughts, I am not sure where you want to go with that. Just because we think it does not make it true. I don't feel that we have to reduce God to a mental idol that we worship. He lives within us and we have a personal relationship with him through Jesus Christ.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Feb 13, 2011, at 6:07 AM

What is truth?

"If you are interested in truth beyond yourself, then you must look to God."

http://carm.org/secular-movements/relati...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Feb 12, 2011, at 3:20 PM

"If you doubt your salvation, does it mean you are not saved?"

"If your salvation depends upon your faithfulness and your goodness, then you should doubt."

http://carm.org/doubt-salvation

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Feb 11, 2011, at 6:16 AM

Thanks Empress.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Feb 9, 2011, at 10:35 PM

Was it really truth?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Feb 9, 2011, at 5:45 PM

Truth is truth anything else is?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Feb 9, 2011, at 5:45 PM

Where is the tolerance in truth? A true statement said any other way is not true. Right? So the truth can only be one thing. True! Tolerant? No!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Feb 9, 2011, at 3:54 PM

A big HELLO back at you Cheetah, and by the way I endorse every word that ND said to you re: apology.

I always enjoy your comments.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Feb 9, 2011, at 1:37 PM

may be a crazy question - but how can something that is supposed to "make you free" (the TRUTH) be intolerant by nature?

zeke

-- Posted by zeke on Wed, Feb 9, 2011, at 1:31 PM

hey all

thought i'd drop in to see what condition my condition was in. good stuff being tossed about in here. i have always thought we (christians) were a little too tough on the world and not tough enough on ourselves. that doesn't mean we need to beat each other up with rules - but we each need to examine ourselves - lest we give others an opportunity to examine and then judge us.

just sayin

zeke

-- Posted by zeke on Wed, Feb 9, 2011, at 1:29 PM

"Religious Tolerance in America"

"Is there only one truth?"

http://carm.org/more-stuff/features/reli...

Truth by its very nature is intolerant. Don't you think?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Feb 9, 2011, at 1:24 PM

Ahh...yes. Religion,the opiate of the masses.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Feb 9, 2011, at 1:17 PM

NanaDot one of the impressive things about you is that always "you get it".

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Feb 9, 2011, at 11:38 AM

And Jesus said; "With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."

( Matthew 19:26 *NKJV )

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Feb 9, 2011, at 5:47 AM

Wow okr did you make that up all by yourself?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Feb 9, 2011, at 5:29 AM

NanaDot I am glad that you enjoyed it. Your comment is extremely meaningful to me. I can't think of anyone on the blog that I could have chosen to first read it than you.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Feb 9, 2011, at 2:21 AM

These thoughts occurred to me as I once again read this religion blog.

The Glass Mirror

Once upon a time, long, long, ago early Christians raised a huge glass mirror. It was so large that they all (their numbers still small) could stand in front of it, see each other, and occasionally one would shriek that he had seen the face of God. Their numbers grew, as a crowd draws a crowd.

After a while they were jostling each other for position, and grasping at the mirror. Finally in their ardor, and their panic they caused the mirror to crash to the ground where it broke into thousands of pieces.

Each grabbed a sliver, and stared into it transfixed, each certain that he possessed the true vision. It mattered not that the view was small, and obscured. It was theirs. Blood dripped from their hands due to the jagged sharp edges. They took that to be a badge of sacrifice, and attached other deep meanings to it. The blood became as important as the mirror.

In their excitement, perhaps hysteria, they ran everywhere, wildly waving their slivers as they careened into crowds who had no slivers. Many in the crowds fell bleeding as the sliverites proclaiming the portent of their slivers waved them blindly, and wildly not seeing anything, but their vision.

In time some people began to avoid them. Others gathered to stop them, and to wrest the mirror slivers away from them. Oh what a fight the sliverites put up. they slashed all that tried to stop them, they went on the offensive attacking those who had no sliver, commanding them to convert, or die by sliver. When overwhelmed by numbers their last act was to slash their own wrists, staring devoutly at their sliver as their life's last blood drained from their bodies.

Years passed, centuries passed, in time all the slivers passed into oblivion. But the memories, and the legends carried on. By word of mouth, some of which was recorded, the sliverites message though skewed, as it went from mouth to ear, then mouth again, passed into posterity.

To this very day their are thousands carrying the message of each of the archaic slivers, and making the same egregious blunders as did those that once held the slivers of the mirror in their hands.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Feb 9, 2011, at 1:41 AM

rr3yvo,

Tell that to King James or possibly any other "scribe" throughout history.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Feb 8, 2011, at 9:10 PM

"Some notes on textual criticism of the Bible and the Qur'an"

http://www.answering-islam.de/Main/Quran...

"The Dead Sea Scrolls and Biblical Integrity"

http://www.apologeticspress.org/article/...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Feb 8, 2011, at 7:34 PM

Wtf the bible hasn't changed.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Feb 8, 2011, at 2:59 PM

"If our moral standards came from man then they could change depending on the laws that are passed. "

So could the bible change. Old Testament meet New testament.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Feb 8, 2011, at 1:58 PM

As the Wiccans say: "An it harm none, do what thou will."

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Feb 8, 2011, at 1:56 PM

So Nana where do you get your moral standard. How do you know it is wrong to kill, steal, committ adultery, etc. If our moral standards came from man then they could change depending on the laws that are passed. How do you explain that our moral standards have been declining since they took prayer out of the schools and legalized abortion. All you have to do is listen to the tv commercials and some of the things they advertise would border on pornography 40 years ago. Man is a sinful creature so how could we develop any moral standards? Moral standards only come from God.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Feb 8, 2011, at 1:07 PM

What right do you have to judge what is moral?

Without a standard of morality, there is no way to judge what is good or bad.

For Christians, God's revelation found in the Bible is the standard by which we make such judgments. So, to answer the question about what gives us the right to judge what is moral, the answer is God.

http://carm.org/what-right-do-you-have-j...

Christians are told in the Bible to separate themselves from the sinful practices of man and to expose error.

Do we have the right to make these judgments?

The reason something can be said to be right or wrong is because the Bible has laid out before us a moral and doctrinal standard that is clear.

To make a judgment means that we must recognize that there are absolutes.

http://carm.org/do-we-have-right-make-th...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Feb 8, 2011, at 6:01 AM

What are you defending Nana?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Feb 8, 2011, at 5:53 AM

Are you really sure about that Nana? I have all the answers, you have all the answers if you choose to receive them. I'm not always right I'm human, I make mistakes, but I have the owner's manual for the human being, to reference when I need to. Thanks for all the compliments.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Feb 8, 2011, at 5:51 AM

NO!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Feb 7, 2011, at 9:27 PM

Yes!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Feb 7, 2011, at 8:35 PM

I have a question... Do you really believe that all the billions of humans that have been born and died over the last 100,000 years (give or take a few), and of which the vast majority over that time were not Christians, will end up in hell, or end up somewhere in a lesser status than those in that very tiny percentage that call themselves Christian? Second question... do you believe that every one of the current living humans on this planet are being monitored every single second of every day for everything they say and do?

-- Posted by RationalThinker on Mon, Feb 7, 2011, at 7:02 PM

An interesting question but one very hard to explain depending on whether you are a Christian or not. I also think what we think of heaven will depend on what we think hell is like. I don't think even Christians can know or imagine what it is like. The bible tells us but there is nothing on this earth to compare it to so each person can have their own picture of what it will be like. I don't worry what heaven will be like I just know that hell will not be a good place to be. The following link offers a good explanation of what the bible says that heaven and hell will be like.

http://forums.carm.org/vbb/archive/index...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Feb 7, 2011, at 3:46 PM

I have an interesting question: What is heaven like in your mind? What do you perceive heaven to be?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Feb 7, 2011, at 9:45 AM

2 things Nana either you missed the point or no matter what I say you want to be at odds with me. Ok which is it?

My point is that being good alone will not earn you a place in heaven. Just being a good person without Christ will not bear good fruit. You will get your reward from man not from God. Why does someone that is not a Christian always think being good is the thing to do? Why do they want to be Christ-like? Nana you can do unto the least of these or to others but where is your reward? As a Christian my reward is in heaven I always do my good deeds so man hardly notices that way God gets all the glory. Like I said Nana it is all about God I get zero credit for anything I do. I give God all the credit.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Feb 6, 2011, at 6:29 AM

I forgot to tell you what church I attend, the OLIVET FREEWILL BAPTIST CHURCH located on the corner of Franklin and High st. If you do not have a church home come visit us, we would be more than happy to see you

-- Posted by buttons on Sat, Feb 5, 2011, at 12:57 PM

Praise God for my church, we don" want to be known by our denomination, we are not a white church, nor a black church, nor red, ywllow or brown. When you walk into our church we want to be known as a SOUL-WINNING CHURCH, teaching and preaching Gods word, the poor, rich and in between is welcome.

My pastor wants every one to have a bible so they can read the scriptures as he reads them, take notes and after services ask any question that you may have.Anyone that has ever been in our church knows it is a freindly and warm church to all and thers alot of love.

If you are looking for just one kind of religion and thats to confirm your was of life, you will be disappointed, Gods way is all that is preached, and sometimes God will speak to your heart about something in your life that you need to change, then you get mad at the preacher instead of listning to God, but praise God it does not phaze my preacher because he knows God gave him that message for a reason, even if he does not know who was convicted by it.

I"M very proud of my church, my preacher and the christians in it.

-- Posted by buttons on Sat, Feb 5, 2011, at 12:33 PM

God's Plan of Salvation

Man's Problem Separation From God

http://bible.org/article/gods-plan-salva...

Scripture also teaches that no amount of human goodness, human works, human morality, or religious activity can gain acceptance with God or get anyone into heaven.

No amount of human goodness is as good as God.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Feb 5, 2011, at 11:38 AM

Oh but Nana it has never been my plan it is all God's. Thanks anyway but all the credit goes to him.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Feb 5, 2011, at 11:23 AM

Oh and Nana we will all die whether we believe and become saved or NOT!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Feb 5, 2011, at 7:25 AM

Does God Want You to be Rich?

http://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuse...

Maybe! Some of the man in the bible were wealthy some were not but all had one goal. To serve the Lord and have the promise of everlasting life after this one. Job had all his wealth and his family taken away but he never blamed God or quit worshiping him. He became even more wealthy later in life. The rich man asked how to get to heaven, Jesus told him to give away all he had and follow him. He couldn't do it and walked away. Please don't walk away.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Feb 5, 2011, at 7:24 AM

What does the Religion of Peace Teach About...

Can Muslims force others to accept Islam?

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Feb 5, 2011, at 7:14 AM

Young Iraqis are losing their faith in religion

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/03/world/...

Why Islam is Different and Dangerous

http://www.webcommentary.com/php/ShowArt...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Feb 4, 2011, at 12:18 PM

Nana I was referring to Christian Doctrine.

http://carm.org/basic-christian-doctrine

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Feb 2, 2011, at 1:46 PM

blj I think you are right people want religion to conform to their lifestyle so they can feel good about it. They worship their lifestyle instead of God. Some think we don't need sound doctrine.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Feb 1, 2011, at 6:12 PM

The liberalism that is infecting the the Church of Jesus Christ is amazing to me. But the Word of God says that this is what will happen. "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables." 2 Timothy 4:3-4

-- Posted by blj on Tue, Feb 1, 2011, at 9:37 AM

It's a new month and a new forum!

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Tue, Feb 1, 2011, at 6:37 AM


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