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Speak Out [politics] February 1 to April 1, 2011

Tuesday, February 1, 2011

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Thanks for the link Cheesehead. One suggestion, would you mind posting the link on the new polical speak out so others may have the opportunity?

Not surprising that I was slotted as a far left social libertarian. Left 8.87, Libertarian 5.7

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Apr 1, 2011, at 10:09 AM

I took your quiz Cheese, ended up a centrist moderate social authoritarian. Left 0.96 and authoritarian 1.48. Think you can quit calling me a rightie now? What was your score, or did I miss it?

-- Posted by Philemon on Fri, Apr 1, 2011, at 8:11 AM

Thanks OKR for that reminder.

I have loved all his work.

In addition, his passing hss been a bit of a personal loss as well as his son is a close friend of my wife and me.

We have passed our condolences to him and his family through private channels.

Joe's passing was indeed a great loss for us all. He was an incredible man with a wonderful sense of humor.

His son is like that too. He is hillareous but always has a subtle moral lesson in every story...a lot like his Dad. I have not said anything to him yet, but I think he could easily follow in his Dad's footsteps but I also think he would be the first to point out that his Dad's shoes are a bit too big for him to completely fill.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Apr 1, 2011, at 12:53 AM

I want to call to the attention of my fellow populists that one of the finest progressive writers in America, Joe Bageant died last Sunday at the age of sixty four.

He was most known for his book "Deer Hunting With Jesus" a classic must read for progressives, and populists, but also of interest to those of other political persuasions because of the depth of his understanding of, and sympathy for blue collar America, from which he came.

It is not often that some one dies whom I never personally knew, causes within me a feeling of personal sadness. Joe was one of those rare individuals. I felt a special affinity for him partly because I also have blue collar roots, but more so because of his wonderful humanity.

Fortunately his last book will be released in a few days. Joe will get the last word. http://www.alternet.org/story/150402/joe...

Now I am going to pour myself a shot of whisky, kick back in my back yard under the stars, and toast old Joe before I go to bed. I know that if he still could, he would be all for joining me.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Apr 1, 2011, at 12:34 AM

Ok Cheese,

I took the quiz mate.

According to the results of my quiz, I am

"a far-left social libertarian.

Left: 9.24, Libertarian: 6.21"

and I might point out that I am very proud to be an American liberal.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 11:55 PM

To everyone,

I found this great political quiz test to see exactly where you fall on the spectrum. Its 50 questions and rates you as liberal or conservative and authoritarian or libertarian. Post a link for results.

http://www.gotoquiz.com/politics/politic...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 11:28 PM

Jo,

Oh yeah...Raytown...haven't seen him around in quite awhile.

I think we skeeeeeered him lol.

Jo have you any thoughts about the Republican onslaught against American workers in Wisconsin and other states?

I would love to hear your opinion Jo.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 11:18 PM

cheesehead

Thanks for posting that link.

I am glad to see some of the Wisconsin Judges don't appear to be as willing to attack working Americans as the Republican Party is.

Its good news but our struggle for the rights of working Americans continues.

I think the recall elections will be rather interesting too -- especially the one they have planned to begin in earnest in January.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 11:15 PM

mrxray; You sound like a guy that us too post a couple of years ago! Raytown Bill!

-- Posted by Jo on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 10:52 PM

News there is always going to be conflicts some were, with killing (just too be killing)Im with you on all of it, (peaceful) to a point! But when does humanity step in and stop it,that's been my dilemma about all of this,the World is getting smaller and Smaller and there isn't enough room too run,or stay out of things!~ Especially when we are considered a world power ! So were damned if we do and damned if we don't! Like you said there has to be a stopping point,at least most of the United Nations are with us and have taken over if you can believe what you read? I think if im reading this thing right UN is a big fraud too! also we should shut down all the Nuclear Power Plants around the world! They can't no more make them safe than they can have a decent Government! Wait till yucca Mountain splits open from a quake fault thats runs under it! They are not going to stop these Wars and make this a Great Country again until the Profit is taken out of it,and the people get off their a-- and make things happen again like we did in the 60 & 70 ! Not all of those were Peaceful Protest either.I was never crack on the head or shot at, but a lot of others were! everyone our age, knows all this! I don't think the people really want things to change? I have been so nasty on some of these blogs,they probably have me ,a 75 Year old nothing, on some kind of list! Im really a threat ha! like we said in the 60, (PEACE)

-- Posted by Jo on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 10:27 PM

Well, we have some good new as a Wisconsin judge rules for that the union busting law is not in effect.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/31...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 10:24 PM

OldOwl

The reason we don't do that is because it is a criminal act to kill the leader of another country -- especially one that has not attacked us and is no direct threat to our National Security.

There is another reason too.

The USA has lost a lot of its power and influence on the rest of the World. Criminal acts such as the one you suggest are not viewed by the rest of the World as a "good thing." More American bullying won't do us any good.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 7:15 PM

What the f......

the "he who has the gold..." thing...

Yeah the French Aristocracy thought that too.

They don't think that anymore...probably because its difficult to think anything when they don't have their heads attached to their bodies.

We the People are the deciders.

It may take us awhile and things may have to get pretty bad before the People react...but as history shows us over and over again...when the People get tired of the oppression by the rich, they will take matters into their own hands. Things tend to move pretty quickly at that point.

The rich are only rich until We the People take everything they have and they find themselves sitting in a prison praying to Sweet Jesus they don't lose their head too.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 7:10 PM

Philemon

Yeah I agree about my new slogan.

How about this one mate:

BIG O HAS GOT TO GO!!

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 6:30 PM

cheesehead

No way will I support the Democrats or the Republicans.

I see no significant differences between them.

They are in fact one party -- the United Fascist Party.

I only vote for the Greens now.

We do have a choice.

Its working in Australia (the Greens control the Senate here now -- nothing gets through the Senate now without their approval), and it can work in the USA.

We don't have to be slaves to the fascists.

We do have a choice.

This American chooses to vote Green Party...no matter what that may mean in the short-term...because its so worth it in the long-term.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 6:26 PM

This might be simple thinking, but it seems to me that all of the problems in Libya could be solved by placing one Cruise missile through the bedroom window of Qadaffi, I mean Gadaffi, I mean Kudaffi..you know who I mean. Heck, you could probably call him and let him know about 5 seconds before it actually gets there.

-- Posted by OldOwl on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 5:00 PM

Big Fat Guy.

It as old as mankind itself. "He who hath the gold maketh the rules."

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 4:09 PM

wtf,

Welcome to my world. I have been watching this and railing against the money-buys-freedoms situation since before somebody smarter than me put it all together in one place and named it

"the value of nothing"

you wver wonder why the rich seem to concur cancer or at least fight it for like 30 years? or why people who have a history of wealth also seem to never get in trouble, or if they do they get out very quickly. (lohan, spears, Lil Wayne, Oj, Magic Johnson)?

its not because they are super human. its because they are super rich. and if they get rich enough they can actually erase the things they did in the past. (the Kennedys, Bushes, Kochs)

I have no problem with people who want to climb to the top of the mountain, but when you get there help somebody else up. don`t stand there like the kid who got left back 2 years in school and dominates king of the mountain like a tyrant kicking younger smaller kids back down the hill. and please dont act like your hard work makes you a better person because you make more doing it.

i hope I can save enough money before I die to allow my children to have enough to go to college at a Private school in China where they may actually learn something, and have enough money-making-potential to deserve to live in the shadow of the Bush/Koch shadow and breathe the same air as the kings of walmart and Exxon mobil.

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 2:29 PM

The tragic part is, no matter what the arguement, we'll never again have ANY president or congressman who isn't a corporate puppet.

Bis business has won and considering the recent Supreme Court decision, they have been bought as well. Another tragic irony is that not only have we been sold out, we've been stuck with the bill.

Keep that in mind next time a divisive issue such as abortion, gay marriage, etc.,etc. is brought up by the media. Divide and conquer. These people are slick marketing experts. Don't fall for it. As long as they keep us distracted and fighting over nothing, we won't see them looting the coffers.

I am now completely depressed.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 1:09 PM

News,

I can't believe how much I've been agreeing with you lately. I like the premise of your slogan, but I think it I think it needs a few more syllables. It just doesn't flow right for me. Again, I really don't think McCain would have been any better. Of the contenders right now, I can't think of a single Republican I would vote for, but would probably vote for any of them against Obama. Right now, I would vote for Hillary above any Republican, but don't really want that either.

-- Posted by Philemon on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 12:01 PM

How many believe that John Boehner's political mindset will be co-opted by his new job?

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 11:19 AM

News,

You may disagree with Obama on this war, but you do have to admit its a way better strategy then was applied to Iraq or Afganistan. I would also remember that if McCain was president we would be in wars with North Korea and Iran right now which would cost us lots more money and lives.

Also unless Ron Paul was to get the Republican nomination the rest of the field has already proven to be hypocrites who flip-flop and demanded Obama to take action then retracted after there votes for a no fly zone and he took action. Wouldnt a vote not cast for Obama lead us down the same or even more narrower road that you are saying youre against.

You know we arent going to get a liberal to run against Obama know matter what happens, so your choice is either Obama or Corporate America. The Dems are poised to take back the house with all these crazies they have in there and we dont want a Republican Pres to veto all our bills.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 10:38 AM

mr. Xray,

"because money IS what makes the world go round."

show me where the constitution calls for a capitalist dog eat dog economy.

"the fact that MANY if not most people who are poor are poor because of POOR choices?

this coment is the most accurate thing you`ve ever posted. most of the poor folks around now ARE poor due to poor choices. the Poor choices made py the government elected by their parents. and the poor choice of finantial deregulation that allows big abnks to gamble with other peoples money with out fear of loosing it or being punished in any way at all.

or the poor choices made by their cash strapped parents to have 6 more kids and not send them to a private school, (the only way to get a real education anymore)

is it fair to punish the kids with a life time sysle of poverty because their parents choices suck?

and on another note, as somebody who has been bailed out of jail several times in my youth I know that when you get balied out of jail by a 3rd party you are expected to stand for you court date and pay the person who bailed you out back the money they are owed. when are Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, and the Leiman Bros. gonna pay back the 750,000,000,000 we loaned them to get out of trouble?

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 9:49 AM

RR

Yeah the Republicans will have to wait their turn lol.

Obama is now public enemy number one as far as I am concerned and I think he is a serious threat to our National Security over the long-run mate.

O HAS GOT TO GO!!

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 7:17 AM

News the outback may suit me because according to some I am not civilized. I do like "O has got to go". That's similar to your saying "the party of no has got to go" that you were saying about a year ago.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 6:18 AM

Obama also said, "It's not that I want to punish your success. I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you, that they've got a chance at success, too... My attitude is that if the economy's good for folks from the bottom up, it's gonna be good for everybody. If you've got a plumbing business, you're gonna be better off [...] if you've got a whole bunch of customers who can afford to hire you, and right now everybody's so pinched that business is bad for everybody and I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody

O's quote to Joe the P... spreading the wealth IS socialism... not sure how you can deny that this was a statement stating his support for socialism. AND any one who stated he might have "got it wrong" about calling Obama a socialist was only back tracking and covering his Behind for political reasons.

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 5:39 AM

LOL Nanadot... even your buddy Chris Matthews says that Obama should make public his real, signed, long form birth certificate instead of the one that was not the LEGAL birth certificate.

How about the fact that he has some sort of issue with his social security number and that it was not one issued by the state of Hawaii but from the state of Connecticut.

I love it when people bring up this whole birth certificate issue because all the Big O had to do was make public his real birth certificate and or his college financial aid documents if he could not find his real birth certificate instead of spending huge dollars on hiding his birth certificate...

AND you cannot say that he did produce his birth cert becauce TOO many liberals agree that the one produced on the internet during his campaign was not the REAL birth cert.

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 5:36 AM

Nandot.. you VOLUNTEER to be in the military... It is totaltarian and you give up a certain extent of your rights, but Not one aspect of military life was socialist... even if you want to use the health care aspect, you have to turn around and acknowledge that for the most part, in the military you dont get paid as much as your civilian counter part and you give up freedoms that you have as a civilian therefore you are compensated with free health care, or mostly free and other things like death benefits... you an say that military life has socialist aspects but is not really a socialist environment...besides this is ONE of the few things that the Fed is constitutionally supposed to be doing...

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 5:28 AM

nanadot.. Huff Po does not make a very good source...

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 5:25 AM

nanadot... you are so biased against money... lol

Here is an idea... instead of demanding that our citizens make SMART choices, get an education, NOT do drugs, not get pregnant with out an education and career or financial means to provide for a child, and demanding that our citizens work for a living, use their intelligence and innovation to run a business, work their way up through their chosen career or create some new invention, or otherwise become successful and be rewarded with money (because money IS what makes the world go round) exactly what system do you think should take the place of personal responsibility and having the FREEDOM to earn as much as one is capable of?

Why is it that you are so quick to back the right and Republicans and so quick to ignore the fact that MANY if not most people who are poor are poor because of POOR choices?

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 5:23 AM

heya news... I read about some sad Aussie news... having a run on endangered species...

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 5:19 AM

NanaDot

Every candidate has the same chance starting out.

Its up to us. We can solve the problem, but we can't solve it by putting in parties that are both basically the same and fascist in their approach.

You say the American People are not ready for 3rd Parties.

I say if not now, when? If not us, who?

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 5:18 AM

I think McCain has dementia... I heard him live talking about how he disagreed with Obama on his total policy... or lack of policy or action toward any of the uprisings in the Middle East, starting with the 2009 uprising in Iran.... lol

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 5:18 AM

nanadot.. even though you seem to desire total leftist radical takeover of all three branches...again....

I have to agree with you I dont want total control of all three houses by either party... that is not good for anyone... too bad your so full of hate for the republicans.... totally closed minded and lemming like when it comes to this issue... lol

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 5:16 AM

NanaDot

McCain's position is one more example of the problem with having a 1 party system...oops I mean 2 party system.

Obama's policies, including his foreign policy and his economic policies, are directly out of the Conservative handbook.

He is a war hawk in foreign policy -- attacking a 3rd World Nation that has not attacked us and is no threat to us, and he is still busy torturing American Citizens (Private Manning) as well as foreign nationals (policy of rendition and secret torture prisons).

He is a neo-classicalist in his economic policies attempting to use the tax multiplier and cash handouts to big banking and big corporations in an effort to pull us out of a defationary period -- policies which has never been successful before BTW.

Tell me again how he is different from George Bush?

As to the Greens...yeah they started out small here too -- now they control the Senate. A party does not have to be big to be the decider when the other 2 parties don't hold a majority.

If you believe in your ideals and those ideals are shared by Green Party...shouldn't you be supporting the Greens?

If we keep electing the same 2 parties over and over again, we should not be surprised when they begin to look pretty much the same.

AA says the definition of "insanity" is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

...and here we are attacking another oil rich country...

...who'd a thunk it!?

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 2:06 AM

News Across, McCain agrees with Obama on Libya. You can end your speculation. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/29...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Mar 30, 2011, at 11:52 PM

Ya know there is a question that keeps running through my mind.

Would Senator McCain have gotten us embroiled in a 3rd war in some small oil producing nation in Africa that is no security concern of the USA?

I don't think he would have.

If he would not have had Sarah Palin on the ticket he might just have won that election.

But one thing is for sure...

O HAS GOT TO GO!!

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Mar 30, 2011, at 10:08 PM

Hey RR,

How do you like my new slogan?

"O has to go!!"

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Mar 30, 2011, at 10:02 PM

rr3yv0

actually there is a heck of a lot of room in the Outback mate, lol lol lol.

Australia is the same size as the continental United States but has only the same population as the State of Texas.

The problem is that only the costal regions are habitable for civilized folks lol lol lol.

But come on down RR...we would be glad to have ya mate!!

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Mar 30, 2011, at 10:00 PM

Poll: Obama's approval hits new low

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/031...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Mar 30, 2011, at 9:51 PM

You might be right news is there any room in the outback over there?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Mar 30, 2011, at 9:04 PM

"Dem Rep. Jared Polis calls on Congress to end marijuana prohibition"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/03/30/de...

Will we never learn?

Prohibition never works.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Mar 30, 2011, at 5:33 PM

"Most Americans think Obama does not deserve re-election, according to new poll"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/03/30/mo...

O has got to go!!!

...and while we are at it, we should toss out the Republicans and the Democrats in Washington as well.

We don't have to be slaves to the United Fascist Party. We can vote Green Party instead.

It up to us.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Mar 30, 2011, at 4:50 PM

rr3yv0

Not all of us will be serfs to the future US of Whatever...lol.

Some of us have other options lol lol lol.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Mar 30, 2011, at 4:44 PM

Nana and BFG I think we already have Almighty Dollar as our king. I think when the world decides to not accept our dollar as a base currency then Almighty Dollar will be worthless. We will all be serfs in the United States of whatever takes the place of the Almighty Dollar. You are right on track.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Mar 30, 2011, at 1:18 PM

Thanks for the link ND. All true, but who will listen? Certainly not the Tea Party/corporate owned Republican Party.

This is another example of how greed blinds those in power to an opportunity to enhance their wealth. They ignore, at their peril, the foundational fact that without stimulation of consumerism, as opposed to the current climate of thwarting it which creates a negative dynamic, product will not move.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Mar 30, 2011, at 12:35 PM

how funny is it gonna be when the ever growing dictatorial, money grubbing, capitolists finally find a way around the power of the vote and totally abolish free speech and finantial regulation. The guys who are so against the thought of a socialist economy are thrown into a Feudal system with the rest of us serfs? took us 30 years to get this far in the hole give us 30 more of the same and we'll have a king named the all mighty dollar and we will be subjects not citizens.

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Wed, Mar 30, 2011, at 9:23 AM

One thing further Xray. Sammon went on air, and stated something as his opinion that he did not privately believe to be true. How can that be anything, but a lie? Were you confused because he stated it as his opinion? Is that why you said it was an opinion, not a lie? Do you now see the point?

By the way, standards at most networks have caused people to be fired for less, but then we all know Fox doesn't hold to journalistic standards don't we?

Sorry you just flat lose this round Mr.XRay. Better luck next time. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Mar 29, 2011, at 11:54 PM

Xray, Bill Sammon Fox executive said, "Last year, candidate Barack Obama stood on a sidewalk in Toledo, Ohio, and first let it slip to Joe the Plumber that he wanted to 'spread the wealth around.' At that time, I have to admit that I went on TV on Fox News and publicly engaged in what I guess was some rather mischievous speculation about whether Barack Obama really advocated socialism, a premise that privately I found rather far-fetched."

Xray the man admitted he went on air, and said things that he believed were far fetched, then called it mischief.

Definition of far fetched: not based on probable, or reasonable grounds. Synonyms; unbelievable, fanciful, fantastic. Used in a sentence; Xray I find your statement that Bill Sammon did not lie farfetched.

You can call it what you will Xray, but to say it is anything other than a lie is fanciful. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Mar 29, 2011, at 11:40 PM

Nana & Oklahoma: i couldn't have said it that well! People like this guy sounds like the most Un American Individual i've heard in a while,weather he gets it or not! He has a right to say what he wants,but it gets old after awhile, & meaningless! It's like these unfortunate People that stand on corners with signs saying the world is ending! Great Post you guys!

-- Posted by Jo on Tue, Mar 29, 2011, at 11:08 PM

OKR... that is not a lie, that is an OPINION based on statements that Obama and his minions have stated all through their adult lives. Tendencies for socialism are seen throughout most of Obama's policies. And how can you state what Obama said to Joe the Plumber was not socialist?

That whole premise he stated to Joe the P was exactly socialist. The problem is that the Media is to CHICKEN to dig into Obama's past and associates and mentors... the hardly even mentioned their names let alone dug into Obama's past beyond what Obama puts out as propaganda.

Just because someone is of the opinion that Obama is a socialist or leans in that direction does not make them a LIAR... lol you have distorted definitions of what makes a lie.

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Mar 29, 2011, at 8:16 PM

LOL News... because OR State denies that his happened does not make reality match their denial... lol OF COURSE the univeristy is going to deny this accusation... just as you deny that Unions are not violent, nor make threats of violence, nor does anyone on the left EVER make threats of violence and violent actions.

lol

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Mar 29, 2011, at 8:12 PM

rr3 here is more proof that your political bible Fox News just flat out lies. My question to you is, will there be a point when you quit believing the source because you can no longer be sure that what they are saying is correct?

The fact that you continue using them as your source already has weakened your argument with the majority. In other words your gun is shooting bullets filled with increasingly wet powder. The bullet now drops out of the barrel to the floor, and never hits the target. You need fresh ammo old buddy if you hope to win this shooting match. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/29...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Mar 29, 2011, at 3:14 PM

I hear you. The easiest and most practical way to jazz up the American workforce is to empower the other half of our population.

And in my own personal experience working in several fields alongside women, they stink less are usually less grumpy in the morning than their male counterparts.

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Tue, Mar 29, 2011, at 3:04 PM

Actually I was just making the point that there are guys, myself included, who recognize gender bias at all levels including even the written word. When one sees such she should not countenance it without putting in her two cents worth. ;)

I along with other males, including you BFG, abhor the second class status of women in our society. A discriminating person does not have to experience something to recognize its repugnance. Bottom line I truly believe it is a humanitarian issue, that should not at any time be restricted by the label gender issue.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Mar 29, 2011, at 2:03 PM

pardon my spelling errors. I hate this phone.

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Tue, Mar 29, 2011, at 11:20 AM

I am very sorry that I may have souded like I was singling out a gender or belittling the plight of women in this country. that was certianly not my intent.

I meant to say that as a Man I`ve wondered if are seeing this differently than I am. as a fellow hair splitter I see things as they could be instead of how they are and I see a Orwellian type govt becoming an Evil we just have to accept rather than the way it should be, a government that is scared of upsetting its employers, the tax payer. male female or otherwise.

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Tue, Mar 29, 2011, at 11:19 AM

BFG Nana's comment, at least to me, was more the view of a compassionate human than exclusively that of women. In your response there seems to be an implication (not necessarily on a conscious level) that "only" women care about the issues raised. Sadly, I must admit that it is "mostly" women that care about the issues raised.

No offense intended, I enjoy your work. Unfortunately I also occasionally enjoy splitting hairs. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Mar 29, 2011, at 10:09 AM

Nana,

It is nice to hear a womans point of view on this one. I totally see how you feel let down by both parties and who doesn`t?

trotting Palin out there doesn`t give them a mandate to curtail womens rights.

Priach on sisiter

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Tue, Mar 29, 2011, at 8:54 AM

E-ray,

Oh what a tangled web a blogger weaves when first they try to deceive...eh mate?

I read the ultra-right wing blog piece you linked to in your comment.

http://biggovernment.com/jorient/2011/03...

Then I did some research.

Being one of those folks who really does appreciate a fair and balanced airing of issues, I located some rather interesting information regarding the claims the author you cite makes which have turned out to be...well, for lack of a better word...phoney...never happened.

Here is the University's Official Response.

"STATEMENT REGARDING INTERNET POSTINGS BY ART ROBINSON"

http://oregonstate.edu/ua/ncs/archives/2...

It really helps to do some research before you swallow the unsupported nonsense hook, line, and sinker.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Mar 29, 2011, at 4:02 AM

RR3. obviously you are not a liberal so you are those like you are not qualified to make decisions for our nation nor for each individual... only the liberal elitists are qualified and only a super huge expensive, wasteful, fraudfilled, government can provide for individuals and our nations.

LOL

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Mar 29, 2011, at 2:39 AM

Nandot.. why cant you see that the liberals and Dems do the exact same thing... How about the 3+ billion the GE got back as a tax break and how they were allowed to get away without paying ANY Taxes on the 5 billion of business they did within the US... but because Obama and Imelt are tight and Imelt is working with Obama to get these breaks means nothing to you right?

How come you cannot see the things that the Dems do that are equally as bad to that of anything you cry about the Republicans?

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Mar 29, 2011, at 2:37 AM

Here is one that will make you liberals happy... this is the HORRIBLE and probably illegal, unethical, immoral, unfair and down right wrong actions of the liberal left at the University level but is a GREAT example of how Unions and other liberal 'arms' behave when they dont get their way or when someone threatens their forced and mandated union memberships and when policy is passed that they disagree with... instead of being and AMERICAN and acknowledging that the political process swings both ways and you win some and lose some and when you lose you accept it and work within the system to attempt tomake the desired changes later, you liberals get angry and go outside the bounds of our democracy and our political rules and laws and attack people and their family members simply because you have a difference of opinion from them or because they might have backed a politician or policy that you dont like.... and the sad part is that you liberals cannot see your actions for what they are.

http://biggovernment.com/jorient/2011/03...

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Mar 29, 2011, at 2:35 AM

Jo we are not the World Police.

We should not be diving into another Country's civil war. Its not our place to do that. Libya is not a threat to the United States nor has Libya attacked us.

It is not our place to decide which side of the Nation of Libya wins the civil war.

That kind of thinking is what got us into Korea, Vietnam, and was used to justify our occupation of Iraq.

It was wrong then and its wrong now.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Mar 29, 2011, at 2:09 AM

I agree with you news across on this killing! But i have found out some times its unavoidable,when your trying too stop it, or keep from being one of the killed! I never was a hunter as a kid, like my Father. And i could never explain to him why! Unless whatever it was,was trying to eat me i could, Self preservation! I think maybe that's way i sympathize with anyone or thing that's being taken advantage of unless its an equal fight. A metaphor would be too give the Deer guns,at Deer Season! ha. Does that make sense? Im sure the Rebels & their families feel the same way as the deer! I feel Obama took what action he did, not for oil but for saving lives.Now thats not to say he maybe opened the door for some of the blood suckers! That should be watched. This is all my stupid two Cents worth,but i've been wrong a lot in my life,ha!

-- Posted by Jo on Mon, Mar 28, 2011, at 11:11 PM

New Rules Would Label Millions of American Workers as Disabled

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/03/...

Do we really need more government regulation on this? They are going to put the burden of proof on the employer to prove the employee don't need special accommodations. I mean we already have to park at the back of the parking lot because of all the empty handicap spots at the front.

I know some of you are salivating to slam me for hating handicap people but that is not my point. I'm just asking do we need the government to do this?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Mar 28, 2011, at 9:25 PM

Jo it really isn't nitpicking no matter how hard I try I can't think like you and some others think. It just leaves me to wonder what life circumstances would lead a person to think like that. That's all!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Mar 28, 2011, at 9:09 PM

I have wondered why the American people are so easy to except plane nonsense so easily and why the pundit,politics,News Media,Koch Brothers,wall Street,even the common man on the street,any one that takes things out of context.And make a bigger deal out of it.Isn't there a law or should there be a law,with Consequences too correct this? At least something on the Order of false witness,perjury! There has to be something on the **** books to cover these **** liars? They can take away the Honor and respect of War Heroes,like karrey,with the Swift Boat incident as nanadot mentioned! Something too charge these SOBS WITH! Make them prove what they say! Sue them if they can't give them Jail time see to it they will never make a dime again.That can be done! They took away Colon Powell's good name in History! Wee were taught not to lie in Grade School ! Mrs. Cole,at Northwest school, beat my Butt once a week for it! So i know it's wrong under any circumstance! ha ha but it isn't funny! Just another silly thought too break the tension,tee hee hee

-- Posted by Jo on Mon, Mar 28, 2011, at 7:58 PM

But frankly,...

...if the Republicans want to impress me then this would be a good time to cut all funding of all the wars.

Republicans...bring our kids home.

Stop the killing!!

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Mar 28, 2011, at 6:18 PM

RR,

I was scrolling down trying to read all the comments I missed over the last couple of days that I have been busy out in my workshop, and I ran across one where you point out how we on the left were quick to point out that Bush's warmongering was wrong.

You ask if the current lack of critisism of Obama for doing pretty much the same thing Bush did from the middle of the roader Democrats amounts to a double standard.

I think it does mate.

You hit the nail right on the head RR.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Mar 28, 2011, at 6:11 PM

RR3: i haven't commented on many of Statements because in a lot of ways your mind is set like mine, you have your mind set with all this nitpicking! i my self i try to get as many straight fax , and pick out the ones with most common sense! In no way am i a Political Science Major,never ever liked Politic in any way! But in my old age,i find the injustice in this Country is intolerable! I started with Reagen, reading up to now.And with either Party, if i wanted to pick the most sympathetic to the People, is the Democrats! they seem to have the programs for the People! We need more Socialism in this Country, the Specific seems to always go back too nonsense,that can be argued till the last dogs dead! But having said this ,its up to the people too make these changes that will help Mankind,NOT Corporate America,And i begain to think mankind wants it just like it is.Think about it we control this, if we want too,and not listen too nonsense that Politic & the Money Men want you to believe!

-- Posted by Jo on Mon, Mar 28, 2011, at 1:17 PM

Amazing Nana; simply amazing!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Mar 28, 2011, at 12:20 PM

Jo,

I agree with you because President Obama was handed 2 wars and a recession not to mention he has had to rebuild our international reputation. He has also had to deal with the formation of a new party if you call it that paid for by Fox news and the Koch brothers in the Tea party.

President Obama wont get us in to anymore long drawn out wars like Bush has done. As far as the money Obama spent a great deal of that has been on the stimulus bill and anybody that critizes that bill really doesnt understand economics that well.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Mon, Mar 28, 2011, at 11:06 AM

Jo I have no quarrel with your statement that Obama is better than Bush. In my opinion a monkey randomly pushing yes, or no buttons on policy would have done a better job than Bush.

My point in criticizing him is that I expect much more from him, because I believe he is capable of delivering more. Therefore people like me choose to keep the pressure on him. I believe it is necessary to do so, if for no other reason than to counter balance the extreme pressure that he is under from the corporatists who run America.

I believe that his continuing attempts to appease the right, whose only goal is to fight him at every turn to assure his failure, is a collosal strategic blunder.

I appreciate that his majorities in congress were but an illusion because of some very conservative Democrats. His approach to them should have been to arm twist, and unleash the might of his position, and that of the Democratic party upon them. They would have fallen in line, or fallen behind. As is, he has made no visible effort of consequence to solidify a united front within the Democratic congressional body. It is hard to win a fight when your right hand is smacking you in the face every time you throw a punch with your left.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Mar 28, 2011, at 9:10 AM

Jo I know you don't like debate but I just have to ask you to justify why you think the way you do. You say this president has done more in 2 years then the past but you give no specifics. I would think if that be the case you would have some bragging rights instead of generalities. Humanitarian? He has launched more missiles than any Peace Prize winner in history. He has accrued more debts then all of the past presidents. Also I would think you would have more respect for the presidential position then referring to past ones as morons? Listen I don't like the current president but I try to always show respect for the office whether I like the person in it or not. It's ok Jo I don't expect a response.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Mar 28, 2011, at 7:05 AM

Considering what he was up against when he came into office,i personally think he has did an impossible job! He came in with all that **** dumb un American idiot left for us,plus all his crazy thugs that lead him around like a Child, and made all the decisions the A%& H**% put his name too! All his Rep.& Some Dem. followers pledged too not help in anyway to straighten out everything the Moron and his thugs did! So then he comes in and accomplished more than any other President in his first 2 years,i think that's impressive! His caring for Humanity is great.I cant see anything of a War monger in this man in any way! Maybe I'm thinking how the War mongering Idiot did his job and makers this President look so good? I keep thinking the things i read about him,and say to my self, ( self ) am i wrong,then i come senses and say HELL NO YOUR NOT WRONG,AND I TRY TO BE OBJECTIVE Maybe everyone expects too much too soon after the Moron??? Just an Observation of what i'v been reading. Maybe the entire World needs to start over,you think?? ha

-- Posted by Jo on Sun, Mar 27, 2011, at 10:28 PM

Why is it that Obama lacks the courage to defend his convictions? http://www.truth-out.org/the-republicans...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Mar 27, 2011, at 9:37 PM

Maine Tea Party Governor agrees to install new labor murals to replace the ones he ordered removed. http://satiricalpolitical.com/2011/03/24...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Mar 26, 2011, at 12:36 AM

The Vermont House of Representatives passed a bill calling for a single-payer system Thursday afternoon, putting the state on a path to become the first in the nation to adopt universal access to health care.

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/201...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Fri, Mar 25, 2011, at 12:03 PM

I have always been against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. What a giant waste of life and $. I also agree we all live on the same planet, but if we cannot get the Arab League interested in what is going on in Libya, why should we? If things work out well, the Arab League will take the credit. If things don't work out, the Arab League will point the finger of blame at us. Its all "lose/lose" for us. WAKE UP AMERICA!!!

-- Posted by OldOwl on Fri, Mar 25, 2011, at 11:56 AM

oklahoma,

Here is a clip of how the new cool Republican Governors have turned into the mean psychotic stepdads. There is also a clip of the weird guy you mentioned below. These are just some examples of the attack on the middle class.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-ma...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Fri, Mar 25, 2011, at 10:26 AM

Maine's Tea Party Governor wants murals depicting the state history of labor removed from the Dept. of Labor building. Revisionism? 1984? Watcha think?

To me it looks like the far right Republicans have opened a new front in their efforts to destroy the middle class, and lower wages. This attack is on symbols instead of substance.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/24/us/24l...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Mar 25, 2011, at 12:09 AM

marshall4 ever,

Really Pres Obama is destroying our nation. I guess you watch Glenn Beck, listen to Michael Savage, and read the blaze. Regardless of what we believe our huge deficts and 2 wars never was a problem to most of those on the right until Obama was in charge. Take a look around and see what Republicans are doing across the nation with their war on the middle class and tax breaks for the rich and big coorps.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Thu, Mar 24, 2011, at 9:23 PM

Wow wtf I told you I knew what your answer would be.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Mar 24, 2011, at 9:07 PM

That was with tongue placed firmly in cheek.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Mar 24, 2011, at 4:18 PM

what the f...: You realize that by even making the offer, you admit that Obama is a failure.

I don't think Obama is a failure. He is accomplishing everything he sets out to do. He is set on destroying our nation and he is accomplishing that quite nicely.

That Bush is a war criminal we can agree on. But really, aren't you beyond the "They did it too argument"?

None of the politicians in recent history gave a whit for the constitution. Not democrats and not republicans. And the Courts aren't much better. They squabble over turf and battle like street gangs. And make Americans think the other party is the enemy while the real enemy is outside our borders laughing at us.

-- Posted by marshall4ever on Thu, Mar 24, 2011, at 3:00 PM

rr3yvo,

I'll admit that Obama's a failure if you will admit that GW and Cheney are war criminals and war profiteers,Deal?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Mar 24, 2011, at 2:41 PM

oldowl and rr

Now come on I bet you guys didnt mind when we went to Iraq and Afganistan. Were you calling for the Arab league back then? At least we have willing partners with this one.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Thu, Mar 24, 2011, at 12:08 PM

old owl,

BECAUSE WE ALL LIVE ON THE SAME PLANET AND ARE ALL THE SAME SPECIES!

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Thu, Mar 24, 2011, at 11:27 AM

Good point oldowl.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Mar 24, 2011, at 10:51 AM

The Arab League was all in favor of a no-fly zone in Libya and stood in favor of efforts to implement it. NOW, they won't contribute and want to critize "the West." I say we pull out of Libya and let the Arab League deal with their own. Let the Arab League explain to the rest of the Arab world why they are allowing a tyrant to kill his own people. No...wait....the Arab League consists of tyrants who kill their own people! Why should we do their dirty work and then have to take criticism for doing so?

-- Posted by OldOwl on Thu, Mar 24, 2011, at 10:05 AM

Take your pick wtf it will still = failure if your willing to admit it. But I already know that answer.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Mar 24, 2011, at 9:33 AM

Failure? Compared to what /who? GW?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Mar 24, 2011, at 9:24 AM

I will make a prediction for 2012. The top ten excuses liberals will use for Obama's failure. Here it is folks 1-10::RACISM Lets see if it comes true!!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Mar 24, 2011, at 8:31 AM

Sen. Joe Biden threatens to impeach W. Bush for war without congressional authorization

http://www.democraticunderground.com/dis...

http://www.infowars.com/hypocrite-biden-...

Is there a double standard here or is it just me?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Mar 24, 2011, at 8:18 AM

Here is Rep Anthony Weiner talking about how we may return to the possibilty of a public option is the Supreme Court rules against the current health care reform and his take on Libya.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Wed, Mar 23, 2011, at 10:29 PM

Obama's War on the Middle Class

http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/03/o...

So you think Obama is for the middle class, REALLY!!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Mar 23, 2011, at 10:10 PM

Former SEIU Union Official Exposes Plot to Collapse U.S. Economy

http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/...

Keep giving the union your money people they are not for the employees anymore.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Mar 23, 2011, at 10:05 PM

Thanks Nanodot, this guy can put his feelings on paper,but its also depressing, but true!HA. **** it don't look good.The people has to wake up,its all in our hands, i don't care how much money these Clowns put in this thing,or how much influence they carry around,if the reasonable thinking people get their head-out far enough,we can still save this Country! We are the ones their playing too! We the people hold all the cards actually! I like your style,and wisdom nana.

-- Posted by Jo on Wed, Mar 23, 2011, at 9:00 PM

Obama, went for this in the right way, as long as he don't put Boot's on the ground it's naive to think they would not put some Intelligence on the ground. But,to even the fight for the Rebels is great! I'm sure the People who want to be free needed the help! That being said,"NO" i know we can't Police the world and shouldn't! Obama went by the book with this exception,not asking Congress,This the way i read it, was a Humanitarian act! If they give the help they needed and get out! Let the rebels continue on a level playing field! I have never liked anything or anybody taking advantage of the disadvantage, here or any were else! I'm with a fair fight.For the right reason but there is killing all over the world and that's dreadful! The World is in such a mess,i don't think there is anyone Person in Washington is going too solve it! Politic has lost all reasoning! There's no one in the distance future,i see, could make a difference! So whats left after Obama? He has brought a little class back to the White House! It's going to have too be a radical change before i make a choice ? Sorry we found something to disagree on,but that's healthy, my friend!

-- Posted by Jo on Wed, Mar 23, 2011, at 12:49 PM

At this link is a really cool picture of the Libyan fire works show. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/22/world/...

What a pretty war this one is. It almost rivals the Gulf War show that was so aptly hosted by color commentator Wolf Blitzer. He did such a good job then that his career took off like...well, a rocket.

I know that the manufacture of weapons, and other armaments is our only remaining thriving industry, and that we must keep up production. The only way we can do that is to keep using up the inventory, or we run out of room in the warehouses resulting in no more production.

However, it would be nice if we could stop killing so many people, and destroying the infrastructure of so many countries. There must be some alternative to that.

Struck by the beauty of the latest pyrotechnical display in Libya the thought occurred to me that we should use up all those armaments in a more benign manner, and then I thought why not an annual tournament modeled on, what else but March Madness, except we could call it World Madness, lasting year long as we can never get our fill of the spectacle of war.

It seems to me that in this day, and time it would be best set in the Middle East, and there could be no more an appropriate host than Saudi Arabia. We would want it in a place that would least intrude on civilization, and they have the Sahara Desert. In time the Gobi Desert could be used as an alternate site if its proprietors cared to bid for the host rights.

The largest munitions sellers should have a first round bye. That would include number one ranked U.S.A., second ranked Russia, followed in descending order by Germany, France, United Kingdom, Spain, and China. The rest could engage in a preliminary tournament to determine first round opponents for the perennial powers. My money would be on Czechoslovakia as a dark horse to explode in the final round.

Judging the performances could be a function of the World Court.

Such an event would dwarf the audience drawn by the World Cup, capturing the attention of the entire world's people. Imagine that every night our televisions would portray the pageantry of anti-aircraft fire, the magic of tracer bullets, incoming missiles, huge explosions, and all the rest, accompanied by the anthem of the particular country putting on the show. The very rich would even have the opportunity to view the display in person. I think those like the Koch Brothers should have front row seats.

I understand that this proposition is an indication that I am insane, but if so, my insanity does not even begin to rival the insanity that is war

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Mar 23, 2011, at 11:59 AM

One of Marshall's own.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jf1IP3yof...

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Mar 23, 2011, at 9:13 AM

News,

I just want to say again that I have gained a new respect for you this week. First, staying consistent on Libya, now admitting you made a mistake voting for Obama. I won't go so far as to say that it was a mistake though. As much as I dislike him, I don't think we would be any better off under McCain/Palin. It has been years since I actually voted for a candidate for president, I've just been voting against the other guy. Last election, there wasn't even a lesser of the two evils.

-- Posted by Philemon on Wed, Mar 23, 2011, at 8:27 AM

Cheesehead and Miss October,

I hope you are sitting down because I agree with you - most Republicans are being very hypocritical about this. They were complaining last week about inaction and now about action. I haven't seen any comments pre or post attack from our local conservatives, so I can't say that about them.

I personally was against it last week. If the same thing were going on in Cuba, Mexico, or anywhere else covered under the Monroe Doctrine, I'd be all for it. I feel like this is in Europe's back yard and our allies there should be taking care of this one.

I'm against it more this week because of the lack of it being presented to Congress. You mentioned other conflicts done this way, but those I know of were a bit different. In Granada, Americans were being rescued. In the previous attack on Libya, their Air Force shot at our planes first because they were claiming to own more of the Mediterranean than international law recognized. They fired at us on two separate occasions so we put a stop to it. If I remember right, the Sudan was in response to the attack on the Cole, but I could be wrong. It's strange, but I don't remember the exact reason for Panama, even though I was only hours away from being deployed there when it luckily ended quickly. I do remember there being a threat to American interests, probably to do with the canal.

This time, there was no threat to Americans from Libya. Like Miss October said, it is horrible what Gadhafi was doing, but are we really entitled to be the world's police. If so, we should have invaded China years ago, not to mention Cuba. Why aren't we in Israel fighting on one side or the other. In Somalia, we were just trying to deliver relief. Should we have invaded when the food was being kept from the people it was for. Actually, pirates from Somalia are still a problem. Perhaps we should start bombing them, which I would be for if we knew the exact location of those pirates attacking Americans. Should we have invaded the old Yugoslavia when the ethnic cleansing started? We did eventually send troops there, but under the NATO flag, since this too was in Europe's back yard. I could continue with more examples, but I think you should get my point. Where do you think the line should be drawn?

-- Posted by Philemon on Wed, Mar 23, 2011, at 8:19 AM

News I know some other people that think the way you do now. They are sorry they voted for Obama and I think we need to think long and hard about how we vote in the next one. The Obama team game plan will be to push for a third party run hoping to take votes from their opponent and completely trash the competition. Most of the media is going to be pro Obama so we need to be careful what we listen to and even more careful about what we believe. I don't know if we will get the complete truth about any of it. Would it even be possible?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Mar 23, 2011, at 7:59 AM

Jo

I understand your sincerity and respect your reasons for sticking in there with Obama, though I do see it differently.

For me its this simple, he launched massive military assaults against a 3rd World country, killing their citizens and destroying their property, violating their sovereignty, committing an act of war against a nation that never attacked us, has no capacity to attack us directly, and is much smaller than we are...

...and guess what all the countries we have attacked since the days Bush Junior have in common?

If you guessed "they are one of the Worlds major oil producers" give yourself a cigar -- oops better make that some chewing gum...that tabbacco isn't too good for ya lol.

Anyway, this looks to me like the same old game they have been playing since Gulf War 1 -- same formula, same reason -- confrol of oil.

I won't support any President that engages in empire building, rapes other nations of their national resources, kills innocent civilians, and sends our kids to die in wars designed to make rich oil billionaires into rich oil trillionaires.

Most of all, I cannot support a President that takes our Nation to war without ever once consulting with the People on it...in the form of our elected Congress.

The President is wrong, wrong, wrong...anyway you look at it.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Mar 23, 2011, at 1:15 AM

I'm not ready to give up on Obama! (The reason) He is as close as we have to get anything Liberal done! The Gene Pool, on politicians, is as thin as we have ever had, in my opinion! And a third Party Candidate could not be the one either, they would have to prove them-self with some balance of Democratic Socialism! Taking away from the Middle class & the poor seem to be acceptable to the cheep A** tax Payer who think nothing of possibly causing the death of thousands of People! Could this be the be the Death Panels they were talking about? There's plenty of way's to kill off People and make it look and sound Legal, and absolutely necessary if it saves the all mighty Dollar! Personally i kind of think the Gene Pool in Humans is getting a little thin too! We were never that easy to convince of all these ridiculous Lie's and flat a** Acceptability of all the Crap these Thug's put out ! Sorry i don't thing i speak any nicer then this! So if you want too delete me? I think my Grandma would approve! At least got it off my chest!ha

-- Posted by Jo on Wed, Mar 23, 2011, at 12:36 AM

cheesehead

Yes that could be a problem for Paul and Kucinich but that brings to me what I like about both those men -- integrity.

I think they are smart enough and honest enough to actually come up with something that just might work.

Anyway, its still a ways off before the election cycle really kicks into gear. I guess we will all have a lot of time to look at it. But one thing is for sure...I will never, ever support Obama or Biden for anything short of dog-catcher.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Mar 22, 2011, at 11:49 PM

News,

The Paul/Kucinch ticket has been thrown out there, but my biggest question would be how would they reconcile their differences on health care.I think a better ticket would be Nader /Anthony Weiner, but they would have a better chance in 2016. That could be a winning combination.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Mar 22, 2011, at 11:06 PM

RR,

I would support a Republican ticket if that ticket was lead by Ron Paul for President balanced with a liberal such as Dennis Kucinich for Vice President.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Mar 22, 2011, at 9:30 PM

rr3yv0

I can promise you this...there is no way I will ever vote for Obama again.

I am sorry I voted for him in the first place and frankly I offer my sincere apology for having been one of the millions that supported him to my Republican friends and associates.

I am not saying I think a McCain/Palin ticket would have been any better, but fair is fair and to be fair I have to admit one thing -- you guys were right about Obama.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Mar 22, 2011, at 9:23 PM

News isn't that pretty much what politicians do, from any party. We are pretty much the laughing stock of the world right now and world would love Obama to have a second term. I understand why you want to vote 3rd party but I am wondering if that would indirectly be a vote for Obama? Something to think about.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Mar 22, 2011, at 9:05 PM

Flashback: Great Presidential War Announcements in US History

Check out how past presidents announced when we went to war compared to Obama!!!!!! Let's party!!!!!!

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/s...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Mar 22, 2011, at 9:00 PM

cheesehead

Yes I agree the Republicans are condeming Obama for doing pretty much the same thing they cheered Bush for doing.

I think that is clear to anyone who is not intentionally shutting their eyes.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Mar 22, 2011, at 8:25 PM

cheesehead

One of the major factors that helped establish the Presidential precedent of obtaining at least a joint resolution when attacking a Nation that has not attacked us or even threatened to attack us and is not capable of attacking us directly is a thing called the Bollin Ammendment. It was the beginning of a series of laws requiring the President to seek Congressional approval of this type of military attack. After all, we committed an act of war when we fired those missles. That is a very serious step...taking the American People to war -- with no approval from the People as represented by Congress.

I don't know what Congress will do about it -- if anything at all or what they can do about it --but for me the fact that Obama's warmongering act violated precedent is enough for me to vote 3rd Party.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Mar 22, 2011, at 8:24 PM

miss october

Yes absolutely Iraq was never a direct threat to the USA and there were no nukes. They had no means by which they could attack the United States -- no navy or airforce that could reach us. -- none.

The UN inspected Iraq for years and very thoroughly prior to our invasion of Iraq and reported that the Iraqis had packed up their nuclear research in accordance with the terms of the cease fire at the end of Gulf War 1. These facts, established after a thorough investigation by the Pentagon after the invasion, confirmed what UN inspectors had been reporting -- no nukes, no nuclear research program, and no biological weapons or biological weapons research programs.

That is important because in order to justify their war for oil in Iraq to the American People they had to claim Iraq was an immediate, physical threat to American cities. Bush even went so far as to claim we had intelligence that predicted "mushroom clouds on the American horizon" at any moment in a joint address to Congress when asking for a resolution giving him authority to invade Iraq. Yet the day before the CIA had issued a memo to the President saying that, infact, there was no hard, confirmed, intelligence evidence what-so-ever to support the existance of nuclear weapons in Iraq.

This meant Bush knew the CIA said there was no immediate nuclear threat from Iraq but he went ahead and told Congress there was a threat...anyway.

In fact, Bush had no such hard intelligence to support his claim.

It turns out, most -- if not all -- of Bush's "intelligence" on Iraqi biological weapons came from Rafid Ahmed Alwan al-Janabi -- a close business partner and associate of the notorious Ahmed Abdel Hadi Chalabi. CIA operative, code-name "Curveball," Rafid Ahmed Alwan al-Janabi now admits everything he told the Bush Administration was a lie and for personal gain (vendetta). Apparently his word -- and his word alone -- was all the Bush Administration needed and this despite the many reports and memos Bush had seen which warned that Curveball was well known to the agency as a notorious liar.

The American formula for empire-building and oil-stealing-war is currently being used with regard to Libia.

Its the same old song and dance...

...their leader is vilified using the media which has colluded with government for many years in many other other wars in the past. When they have sufficiently vilified the target nation's leader, they create or manufacture a resistance, even if its an enemy or a group that has expressed their terrorist preferences many times -- in writing -- and even though they may be, or are, on our Terrist Group Watch-list. Having established some small resistance which has no real influence with the real majority of the citizens of the target nation, they mix in some "attrocities." This is done pretty easily by taking normal bad effects of a rebellion and painting them as an attrocity committed by the vilified leader. At this point they get real creative. Armed with "attrocities," they use the enormous weight of American influence to get a UN resolution -- giving their plan the apperance of international legitimacy -- failing that, they vilify the UN and go ahead with the plan anyway (as with Iraq). Final step -> launch air strikes.

I think you know what is likely to come next.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Mar 22, 2011, at 8:14 PM

News,

I know we disagree with the establishment of a No fly zone in Libya, but have you noticed lots of the right wing pundits and politicians were wanting him to intervene in Libya then they were against him. Regardless of whether you agree with them or not this is starting to be a pattern as they want him to do what something then he does and they try to sway public opinion against him. Do you notice this or is it just me?

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Mar 22, 2011, at 7:13 PM

Back in the Day,

To answer your question there have been quite a few times that a President went to war without the congress approving. Also there was never an official Declaration of War in Afganistan or in Iraq, so there probably wont be an official declaration of war here either. This is just a few inststances of war without congressional approval.

1)Reagan-The invasion of Grenada(83)and the Bombing of Libya(86)

2) George Bush-Invasion of Panama(89)

3)Clinton-Sudan

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Mar 22, 2011, at 7:07 PM

In my opinion, war is always the wrong choice.

I believe peaceful resistance makes much better sense and is far more effective in the long run.

After all, Ghandi brought down the British Empire with it.

Dr. Martin Luther King brought down Jim Crow with it.

Violence is not acceptable.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Mar 22, 2011, at 6:50 PM

Philem,

I also believe its funny when a Democratic president is involved in a war its dithering, but when a republican president gets us in a conflict they are strong on defense and protecting the American people. Thats what you also seem to be saying. I bet news and others would agree there was no immediate threat in Iraq either and the support from that war came from lies that there were wmd's and terrorists in Iraq. At least here we know whats going on.

-- Posted by miss october on Tue, Mar 22, 2011, at 6:41 PM

Phil,

What you given is a bad analogy because in Libya it is the killing of innocent and peaceful protesters that is happening. I believe that you said that MSN was one of your references that you recieved info on this attack. One reports says snipers are killing anyone on the streets. Another report states tanks were shelling at peaceful protests.

Do you honestly think a former sponsor of terrorism and someone that has payed mercenaries to snipe protesters from buildings before this war started is going to use a peaceful way to stop protesters.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42216979/ns/...

-- Posted by miss october on Tue, Mar 22, 2011, at 6:36 PM

Back in the day,

I was a history major in college minoring in political science, but without doing some research that I don't have time for right now, I'll see what I can remember. I think one of the most notable cases was when Reagan put troops in Beirut. If I remember correctly, he got away with it because they weren't there to attack, just defend, which made for very stupid rules of engagement. Even at that, Congress met about it and I think only gave him 100 days authority, which has been used since then as a precedent I believe.

Miss October,

I'm sure the rebels have a good cause considering who they are rebelling against, but yes, it is just a rebellion even though thousands are being killed. My point is that we are already in two unwanted wars and don't need to get into a 3rd. It also isn't just enforcing a no-fly zone. One of our missiles hit a government building killing many. A column of tanks was destroyed by the planes of one of our allies. As far as people being killed, weren't the rebels taking over the country by force?

Just to bring this closer to home, I'll use an extreme analogy. Suppose the Tea Partiers, Beck/Rush fans, and others of that type, all went and armed themselves and went and took over the city of Madison by force, then started on other cities, with an ultimate goal of taking Washington and getting rid of Obama. Wouldn't our government have a right to put down the rebellion without interference from Libya.

I really am all for these rebels, and hope they win, but there has been no direct threat to the United States. Of course, it is right in Europe's back yard. I'm all for sitting this one out and letting Europe handle this one. I really think it is hypocritical for so many who have been harping on the fact that we shouldn't be the world's policemen suddenly decide that we should be the cops. I've always had a great respect for Oklahoma Reader, even when I disagreed with him, and was sure I knew his opinion on this matter without asking. I also gained a new respect for News Across for being consistent in his views on this, even if I strongly disagree with him in most other arenas.

-- Posted by Philemon on Tue, Mar 22, 2011, at 3:00 PM

Thanks for the defense Oklahoma, but I did support those wars in the beginning, just like Congress, on the information given at the time. I've not been in support of how most of it has been handled since then. I actually defended Obama last week when talking to some friends about his lack of supporting an attack on Libya. That all changed yesterday.

And Oklahoma, it seems not to really matter too much what your previous posts are, some people here seem to think that if you aren't with them, then you must be against them. Case in point, even though I have repeatedly called Bush a total idiot, yet again today someone calls me a Bush supporter. I wonder how many people voted for Obama that don't support most of his policies now.

-- Posted by Philemon on Tue, Mar 22, 2011, at 2:25 PM

Can anybody that knows their history really well tell us how many and which Presidents have acted without congressional authority in war times or conflicts? If I remember correct this has happened several times before. I wouldnt consider this in Libya a war, but for the topic at hand we can do so.

-- Posted by Back in the day on Tue, Mar 22, 2011, at 1:33 PM

Miss October what has lead you to believe that Philemon supports the wars in Iraq, and Afghanistan? I have been following his coments for a long while, and either I have forgotten as I approach dotage (quite possible), or he has not mentioned his position on those wars.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Mar 22, 2011, at 1:31 PM

Philemon,

So let me guess you supported the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, but not creating a no-fly zone in Libya?

So youre ok with thousands of people being slaughtered there? This isnt just a rebellion when people are dying!

-- Posted by miss october on Tue, Mar 22, 2011, at 12:48 PM

No Cheesehead, I joined the ranks of News Across and Oklahoma Reader on this one. I don't think RR3 or Xray have said a word about this yet. Again, I DON'T WATCH FOX NEWS! Everything I posted was my gut reaction immediately after hearing about the attack, ENTIRELY MY OWN OPINION. First heard about it on KMMO, then read an article at MSN.com. Neither of those sources even came close to telling me what to think, just reported that the attack had happened along with a press release from Washington concerning the process of how it happened.

So, if there is another rebellion in Ireland that our friends in the UK send troops to suppress, I suppose you will be all for bombing Downing Street in London? Sure is a good thing the UN wasn't around back in 1861 to tell the superpowers of the day to bombard Washington for their reaction to those pesky rebels in the South.

-- Posted by Philemon on Tue, Mar 22, 2011, at 11:59 AM

What about the people of Libya? I think everybody is more worried about the political details here and less worried about human life. Hopefully we sent a message to other leaders who think its ok to meet protest with deadly force! This is about the right to protest without consequence and the right of the people to play a role in the future of their countries. Lets worry about the people now and the politcs of it later.

I wonder how those same people who wanted us to intervene when they thought that Obama wasnt going to the what really caused you to change your mind after the fact? At the very least we know we have an honest President who isnt lying to us about wars.

-- Posted by Back in the day on Tue, Mar 22, 2011, at 11:39 AM

Phil,

So you have joined the ranks of rr and xray in using everything you can against Obama. Your rant is the same as heard as Fox news(turn off fox) and there is nothing you posted that shows your opinion besides a talking point to use against the President. This is just something the Bush lovers are using for political points. I remember Bush lying to congress to get their approval.

President Obama got the support of the U.N. in establishing a no fly zone that is something Bush never could do because he misled people and lied about the evidence he had to go to war. We shouldn't let 1 Republican war monger ruin it for every president we have. At least most Americans did give Pres Bush the benefit of supporting him at first until we found out the truth.What about the people of Libya being slaughtered there? Isnt this the same thing Ronald Reagan did to Libya in the past?

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Mar 22, 2011, at 10:37 AM

Okr,

I was sure we would totally agree on this one, but wanted to make sure. I've heard quite a bit of hypocrisy over this one from what I'll call blind followers. I was away from any news source for the entire weekend and was shocked to hear what was going on when I was listening to the radio on my way to work yesterday.

News,

Glad to see we also agree for a change. I won't go as far as to say that all war should be avoided, but will say that at least the side starting things shouldn't. Sometimes, negotiation just won't work. Remember Hitler?

Cheesehead,

I was disappointed in your comments. If you really think it is only the extreme left and the right trying to put down Obama for this, you really need to start using a different news source because you are obviously getting your facts from someplace even worse than Fox News in the other direction.

No matter how wrong the other wars may have been, at least Congress voted. I couldn't believe it when I heard from the White House that the U.N. directed this so we attacked. Since when does the U.N. trump our Constitution?

-- Posted by Philemon on Tue, Mar 22, 2011, at 8:07 AM

rr3yv0

You make some very important points in your comment.

There are indeed clear Constitutional issues in this mess anf frankly I think Obama has overstepped his authority. Only Congress can give the President authority to take such action and I don't think he bothered consulting with Congress before he sent 141 missles flying on the first night.

Obama has got to go.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Mar 22, 2011, at 7:25 AM

I believe eventually we will be in Libya because the UN or other countries don't have the stomach for it. But I could be wrong. I have been telling you all along to Obama "we don't need no constitution". Just like any other document if you don't uphold it then it is not worth the paper it is written on.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Mar 22, 2011, at 6:31 AM

News I am glad to hear it. Have you ever watched the movie Demolition Man? Maybe that's the kind of world you want to live in--LA 2032!!! Very passive society I don't think I would like it.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Mar 22, 2011, at 6:26 AM

I oppose all war...all war.

Peaceful resistance is much more effective.

Ghandi brought down the British Empire with it.

I oppose all war. All war is wrong. Killing is wrong. Violence is wrong...and it is not necessary.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Mar 22, 2011, at 6:04 AM

Phil I am agin it, as you probably guessed because:

1. Two wars at a time for our nation is already more than we can afford. There were other nations willing, and able to do the Libiyan mission.

2. I am uneasy with the fact that a President nowadays can just send our armed forces into other countries whenever they choose to do so. Seems to me that we are having a basically unchallenged constitutional crisis.

3. I do not believe that the lust for war of a goodly portion of the American people needs three squares a day. We have been adequately feeding that lust with two wars.

Yet here we are again with all three cable net works showing us on a constant basis the bombs bursting in air etc., the likes of such pyrotechnics we have not seen since the Gulf War with Wolf Blitzer as master of ceremonies.

Meanwhile what is a harbinger of darker hours yet to come, the Japanese nuclear melt down, a cautionary tale that should play second fiddle to nothing else, is now just a second feature that people don't even stay to see.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Mar 21, 2011, at 11:32 PM

Phil,

There are not many situations where war is justified, but with that being said as long as what is being told to us is the TRUTH then helping enforce a no fly zone is ok. However I would not support any ground troops at all we have enough troops in foreign countries as is.

The Iraq war we were lied to about, so that makes that war unjust right off the top and then we added a prolonged occupation with that. In Afganistan this war was just as we were protecting innocent lives, but there appears to be no clear mission or an end in sight which is the biggest reason to question this war.

I think the majority of the people are ok with enforcing a no-fly zone, but not ok with sending ground troops into this area. So most of the complaints about this situation is coming from the far left who almost never support war in any fashion or those on the right who hate President Obama and want to find any reason to make him look bad.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Mon, Mar 21, 2011, at 6:52 PM

OOPS!

In the previous comment it should have said "...campaign promises..."

Its early...lol.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Mar 21, 2011, at 6:28 PM

Can you guess how many of the 510 2008 presidential election campaign Obama made have been fulfilled?

Answer: 2

That clown has got to go in 2012.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article...

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Mar 21, 2011, at 6:25 PM

Oh RR,

I found another thing we agree on.

We both strongly oppose Obama.

It looks like you guys were right about him mate.

I think next election I will just cast my vote for a 3rd Party Candidate.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Mar 21, 2011, at 5:25 PM

"Kucinich: Obama could be impeached for attacking Libya"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/03/21/ku...

Well, well, well, well...that makes 3 wars going on.

Can I have another look at that birth certitificate again please?

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Mar 21, 2011, at 5:14 PM

OKR (and anyone else),

I know your opinion of our current state of affairs in Iraq and Afghanistan, but what do you think of our current response in Libya? I'm betting we are in near total agreement on this one, but just wondering.

-- Posted by Philemon on Mon, Mar 21, 2011, at 2:42 PM

Oklahoma: Everything's good,my friend! Hope everyone's well!

-- Posted by Jo on Sun, Mar 20, 2011, at 10:22 PM

Hey Jo, thanks for checking in. Hope all is well.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Mar 20, 2011, at 12:51 AM

Jo!!!!

Great to hear from ya!!!!!

I missed your bits of wisdom Jo...great to havve you back!!

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Mar 20, 2011, at 12:28 AM

You go News! I'm with you 100% on just about everything you comment on! Maybe you get some of your knowledge from your wife? ha. You sound like a perfect couple good luck too the both of you! Give um hell!

-- Posted by Jo on Sat, Mar 19, 2011, at 10:14 PM

You know cheese if someone is not talking about you then you ain't doing nothing.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Mar 19, 2011, at 6:55 PM

Here is the total number of companies that refuse to have ads run on Glenn Beck: 300+ (Based on number recently reported by the New York Times plus sponsor drops after this report came out).

So believe it our not there are many people who feel this man is a few colors short of a rainbow, and Fox news may not admit because he is saying exactly what they want him to.

http://stopbeck.com/dropped-sponsors/

-- Posted by cheesehead on Fri, Mar 18, 2011, at 1:19 PM

1.) the videos don't do that. They are using satire to make an important point.

2.) I had nothing to do with the making of the videos but I do like the videos. I like the humor and I agree with the important points they make.

3.) If you have a problem with the videos contact the makers and tell them about it.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Mar 18, 2011, at 1:38 AM

Obama and Biden sure have helped our economy!

Cost of living at all time high

http://www.cnbc.com/id/42130406

Biden's Amtrak station is 5.7 million OVER budget.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011...

BUT Thank God Trumpk and the Unions exist... their BENEFITS are now something equal to the civil rights or ALL humans which were fought for during the civil rights movment for blacks and women during the history of the US. Some how NOT being property, having the right to be able to vote and treated as equal to any other race is the exact same thing as getting very high wages and benefits

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Mar 17, 2011, at 11:51 PM

Even Hillary is fed up with the incompetent NON-leader in chief that you liberals voted into office....

http://www.thedaily.com/page/2011/03/17/...

All Obama knows how to do is fill out March madness tourney brackets, play golf, take fancy trips, and invite celebrities to a party or go to parties and stir up the VILE and VIOLENT and EVIL rhetorice amongst those community organizers and union thugs...

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Mar 17, 2011, at 11:43 PM

Alien Intervention Institute spokesman explains their position.

"Intelligent Alien Intervention Institute"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7IRRiVUm...

lol lol lol lol lol lol...

...and Creationists wonder why the whole World laughs at them...lol.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 17, 2011, at 7:56 PM

This video is so good, I had to post it again lol lol lol lol...

Special note to conservatives: you may want to skip this video...you just wouldn't get it.

"Intelligent Design vs. Alien Intervention"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kp86gsHsc...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 17, 2011, at 6:35 PM

BigFatGuy

I checked with my resident expert on teaching and teachers in Australia. My wife taught for 32 years lol...in fact she was a Head Teacher for more than 20 of those years.

She said the only shortage of teachers are in math and science.

However, there does not have to be a shortage of teachers in order for you to qualify for emigration to Oz.

While there is no shortage, the schools here are always hiring. If you are offered a teaching position -- even a casual teaching position then the Dept of Immigration would gladly issue you a work visa (kind of like being a temp but still a full fleged teacher -- I have known several casual teachers here who have been teaching at the same school for over 20 years so dont let that word casual scare you -- and casuals get the same pay and benefits as any other teacher -- around $85,000 to start + very generous benefits). The next step is you simply apply for a permanent residence visa after 2 years on a work visa. A good guy like you with a good record would have no problem being approved.

BFG, if you are serious about escaping from behind the American Iron Curtain, I could be a lot of help in that regard and yes I would be happy to assist you. There is nothing I would like better than being able to help a fellow American escape to freedom. Please feel free to email me anytime and don't worry, I would never disclose privaleged information in this forum or any other place. Your personal identity is your own business and I would never disclose that information to anyone.

Perhaps this will help.

http://www.immi.gov.au/

Its the Australian Dept of Immigration's website. While reading it please bare in mind that despite how tough they make it sound, they unofficially give Americans and Brits special preferrence. They shouldn't, but they do. I have never heard of them turning down an American for immigration except for a few like Snoop Dogggy Dog who has an extensive criminal history (they turned him down on a visa he needed to perform here because of his criminal history but in fact they eventually gave it to him anyway lol lol lol...).

If I can be of any assistance mate, please don't hesitate to email me at news_across2000@yahoo.com

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 17, 2011, at 6:14 PM

Here is a video of rep Anthont Weiner as he has to take on not 1 but 2 right wing extremists as he shines a bit of truth on this propaganda machine.

http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Thu, Mar 17, 2011, at 4:21 PM

"you also have to have a good, specific reason for the emigration such as marriage to an Australian, a specific expertise in a career field that is in high demand in Australia"

I would like to get back in to the Education field, please tell me there is a shortage of educators.

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Thu, Mar 17, 2011, at 1:52 PM

News, All I can say about your link to that misguided womans quote is "Yuck" how could she even think that a young girls clothing choices could warrant such disgusting treatment? I`ll be emailing you this evening and beginning my paper work I refuse to live with people who would even suggest such craziness.

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Thu, Mar 17, 2011, at 1:47 PM

"Republican lawmaker blames 11-year-old victim of alleged gang rape"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/03/16/re...

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Mar 16, 2011, at 11:28 PM

NanaDot

You bet Nan...we would love to have you here as an Australian citizen or permanent resident anytime. You would find the political atmosphere much more to your liking lol.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Mar 16, 2011, at 6:35 PM

BFG

In my previous comment I made a typo in my email address lol.

the correct address is:

news_across2000@yahoo.com

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Mar 16, 2011, at 5:42 PM

BFG

I can empathize with you.

Perth is very nice. Almost any place in Australia is very nice. Queensland gets awfully hot though and its very humid.

I recommend Sydney. Its the New York of Australia, its very temperate year-round, there is very little crime, its beautiful, the people are real laid-back, we have socialized medicine, lots of jobs and a booming economy, and best of all, we are a free country as compared to fascist nations such as the USA.

There is something you should consider though. Australia is the 2nd hardest country in the World to emigrate to. The emigration process is long and difficult and expensive (well not that long really as they like Americans to emigrate to Australia lol -- it took me 3 months to get the initial visa after they had recieved the mountain of paperwork). In addition to all the paperwork you have to do -- including a lot of documents which must be applied for such as an FBI report and State Police report -- you also have to have a good, specific reason for the emigration such as marriage to an Australian, a specific expertise in a career field that is in high demand in Australia, such as nursing, et al.

In addition, once you have been granted a conditional residence visa by the Australian Embassy in Washington, they require you repeat the process a total of 3 times before you a receive permanent residence visa and again to get full citizenship. I am not trying to discourage you. I just want you to understand that its not an easy process and it does require a reason for emigration that is acceptable to the Australian Minister of Immigration.

A little side note, single women here outnumber the men by about 7 to 1...lol...and its the easiest path to emigration to Australia (and Australian women love American men -- even the American men who have a few extra pounds lol), if ya know what I mean (you can love an Australian woman just as easily as you can an American woman lol lol lol). By the way, I have found Australian women to be much less "intense" than most American women I have known. They really try hard to please their men because they know they competition here for a man is also intense lol.

If you are serious about emigrating to Australia, send me an email at:

news_scross2000@yahoo.com

and I will see if I can be of assistance in your endeavor to get out of Fascist America. It can be done mate...and I would he happy to help you out. There is another way also which would get you down here fast and you could apply for a visa from on-shore here...(email me for more on that). It is possible to come here as a tourist and then apply for immigration from onshore, and frankly I would recommend it.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Mar 16, 2011, at 5:33 PM

newsacross. I am seriously considering leaving my home country and re-locating in on of a few spots that I`ve been considering for a while. "The Land Down Under" sounds really nice, little soggy right now but nice. I am a big fan of warm weather sunny skies and civil rights/liberties.

hows Perth? any other suggestions? I am serious. I won`t be the boiled frog. not me!

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Wed, Mar 16, 2011, at 9:38 AM

"AT&T to cap users' Internet access, impose fees for too much information"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/03/15/at...

http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Exclu...

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Mar 16, 2011, at 3:26 AM

rr

Certainly people are part of nature, but they do not comprise nature itself. We come from nature and that is where our natural human rights come from and that is why they are inalienable.

So let's get busy and start supporting the rights of all union and non-union American workers to protest working conditions and low pay, to speak about those issues with employers, and the right to enter into contract -- the same right the employers enjoy without impediment. Let's do the right thing and throw out all the bums (Republicans) who are trying to strip the majority of Americans of their natural human rights.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Mar 15, 2011, at 9:38 PM

BFG,

You make some excellent points there.

I don't know which is worse, the Straussian neoconservatives and teaparty minority that are stripping us of our civil rights a little bit at a time, or the majority which does nothing to stop it.

Thank goodness there are folks like you, and Nan, and OKR, and other folks that are at least trying to do something to stop it.

Its time the true silent majority step foward and stop the ultra-right wing conservatives in their tracks. Its time the true silent majority exercise their vote and rid our Nation of the conservatives in power who would dearly love to establish a 4th Reich in the USA...before its too late to stop them.

I really do hate to say this, but thank goodness I am also an Australian citizen, and I can choose to live in a free country instead of the oppressive United States.

On a little side note, I was chatting with one of my neighbors here in Oz, and he asked me why I prefer to live in Australia when I have every right to live in the USA (because I am a natural born American citizen as well). Like me, he immigrated to Australia. He is from the Country of Lebanon, and like me he is an Australian citizen. I thought about his question for a moment and the answer came to me quickly. I told him that I prefer not to live in a nation where torturing people is considered a good idea.

To me, its pretty simple math. Torture = evil. USA = torture is acceptable as a policy.

Let's hope we can eventually get these conservatives out of our government...both State and Federal -- as soon as possible...lest our Nation perish from their failed and evil conservative policies.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Mar 15, 2011, at 9:30 PM

Newsacross,

they are alread whittling away at voting rights.

there is a bill presently being pushed by the repubs. to limit where college kids could vote. saying that they had to vote where their parents live via absentee ballot.

what a great way to curtail the overwhelmingly liberal college age vote.

next comes voter registration cards with your pic, name, and social on them. then grandfather laws, then a test to make sure you are going to mark the right candidate. finally a tattoo on your forhead or wrist to show that you are part of the party.

anybody recognise this series from a book you may have read?

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Tue, Mar 15, 2011, at 8:54 AM

Wisconsin cops & firemen break their oaths.

http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2011/03...

So now if you aren't a union supporter we may or may not respond if you are being robbed or have a fire. Oh yeh let's support that union baby.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Mar 14, 2011, at 10:36 PM

White House Falsely Takes Credit For Oil Production Increase

http://www.redstate.com/vladimir/2011/03...

Do these people have no shame. Seems another president wanted to expand oil production on the continental shelf and got blasted for it. Let's see gosh I can't remember his name.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Mar 14, 2011, at 10:33 PM

News I never said it had to be human!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Mar 14, 2011, at 10:17 PM

Exactly news you made my point and I thank you for it.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Mar 14, 2011, at 10:13 PM

rr3yv0

You failed to make your point if it was that nature or a God (if one or more exist at all) endowded us with human rights.

You never once said that our human rights are endowed by our creater (nature) or a God or Gods.

You said that human rights have to be given by someone (another human). That is the opposite of what you are saying now.

We are born with our human rights and -- those rights are something all human beings are born with. Those rights are not given by any human being but rather it is a concept arising out of Natural Law which is one of the 3 philosphies of law. In additon, no human can rightfully take away the human rights of another person.

One thing is for sure though, if the Koch brothers are successful, you will suffer along with the rest of America. All the bantor and words we put on this screen won't change that. Fortunately for me, I won't be suffering with you. I will be living the life I live now -- in a free country -- unlike America. I will continue to enjoy civil rights, my income will continue till I die, and I will continue to enjoy socialized medical care here in Australia no matter what happens there in America. But if unions are destroyed in America...and the massive cuts to social programs being pushed by the Republican Party are inacted, the economic and political results will be disasterous for you and every other person living in the States.

Good luck with that lol.

...and don't say you didn't know or were never warned of the consequences of conservatism on your ability to earn a decent income and enjoy the civil rights enumerated and encased within our Constitution. You had plenty of warning and plenty of warning signs (Bush and the Republicans spying on Americans without a warrant, the Patriot Act, outlawing unions, limiting free speech, freedom of the press, and other civil rights the Republicans have been nawing away at). I suspect that soon you will see the Republicans passing legislation limiting your ability to vote. That too will be done little by little.

I guess maybe a lot of folks are like the frog in a pan. Heat the water slowly and he will sit there and cook to death. But put the frog in a pan of already heated wated and he will jump out. Like the frog who is slowly cooked, your civil rights are being slowly erroded by Republican legislation and you may wake up someday realizing you now have no rights at all that are recognized by the Republicans or our laws.

And like the frog, you may find you have been simmering all along and didn't realize it -- till it was too late.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Mar 14, 2011, at 6:25 PM

News very good you made my point they are given, God-given or otherwise. Thank you.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Mar 14, 2011, at 10:30 AM

rr3yv0

over 1000 years of Western History -- as well as every single one of our Founding Fathers -- says you are wrong.

No human can give human rights to another human. All you or anyone else can do is respect another person's human rights. However, 1000 years of Western history, beginning with the Magna Carta, has well established that human beings are all born with certain human rights endowed by their creater be it God or nature.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Mar 14, 2011, at 7:57 AM

Nana I am surprised they let you use so many asterisk in your post. I mean young people may be reading this.

Oh and news we are not born with rights unless someone gives them to us.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Mar 14, 2011, at 7:04 AM

Union-Controlled NLRB Approves Union Thuggery in Union Elections

http://www.redstate.com/laborunionreport...

Hey xray did you know that threats of physical violence by pro-union supporters is not coercive? Wow what a deal!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Mar 14, 2011, at 7:01 AM

NanaDot

I empathize with you.

In fact today I said some words to my Dad, regarding the USA, that I thought would never come out of this American;s mouth. I told him, given the direction towards fascism that the USA is headed in, all I can say is thank goodness I don't have to live there. I am proud to say that I do live in a free country, but I wish my Dad could say that as well. With Republicans wittling away at the rights of Americans since Bush first took office in 2001, the pace at which Americans have lost significant human rights is quite alarming.

I hope to see some major changes in the next election. The only hope our Nation has at this point is the vote, but I am not sure how much longer it will be before the Republicans strip Americans of their right to vote.

It will be sooner rather than later I suspect.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Mar 14, 2011, at 2:40 AM

News

I don't think the republicans are worried about the 100,000 union supporters, a significant portion of whom came from out of state, compared to the 3.4 million registered voters in the state. Shoot they couldn't even get all 355,000 union members out for the protest. Elections have consequences, and no one likes union thuggery, not even the good union members.

-- Posted by Mommyto1 on Sun, Mar 13, 2011, at 8:50 PM

Bcat

Giving out huge tax handouts to the Koch brothers and other filty rich folks and then turning around after that and claiming there is a budget crisis is "...in the best interest of their State"?

How is taking rights away from the People and manufacturing a crisis where one did not exist "...in the best interest of their State"?

No-bid contracts are "...in the best interest of their State"?

Since when are those things in the best interest of the People of Wisconsin ?

Who do you think the State of Wisconsin belongs to? Walker? The Koch brothers? Or the People?

Those Republican crazy ideas might work well for the Koch brothers and their other rich, fat-cat bosses, they might even please the right-wing-wackos of the Republican Party, the teapartiers, but it sure isn't good for the average person in Wisconsin or anywhere else.

As to their majority...well...not for long lol lol lol. Those 100,000+ Wisconsinites weren't there to congradulate the Governor...lol. The Republicans in Wisconsin don't have any political capital and they are fresh out of mainstream support. Majority today, kicked to the curb tomorrow...lol lol lol.... Thank goodness for recall elections, eh mate? lol lol lol...

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Mar 13, 2011, at 7:31 PM

rr3yv0

Your rights begin the moment you are viable and able to live without depending completely on your mother's body.

As to a woman's right to exclusive ownership of her body, that exiats from the moment she is viable and can live without being completely, physically dependent upon her mother's body.

And, while I would love to restate all the facts surrounding reproductive choice..for about the 10th time (why do you always want to change the subject when you can't make a good argument?), but the topic we have been discussing is the attack on worker's rights to free assembly, freedom of association, freedom of speech, and freedom to enter into contract, et al.

All of these rights are either Constitutionally mandated human rights or legislatedly recognized humman rights. Walker, the Koch brothers, and the Republican Party have overturned over 60 years of that recognition.

Don't think for one second the voters in Wisconsin -- most of whom are proud, American workers -- are going to be distracted from their task of removing Republicans from power in Wisconsin. The recalls of the Republican Senators are already underway, Walker will be recalled in early 2012, and all the other Republicans in Wisconsin will be fired in the 2012 election.

At that time, the legislated rights of these fine, proud, American men and women who work hard everyday will be recognized again.

...and rightly so!

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Mar 13, 2011, at 5:00 PM

Hey news when do we get our rights at conception or when we come out of the womb? Never heard of anyone being born with rights so I'm just askin'.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Mar 13, 2011, at 3:35 PM

INFLATION-I guess when you take food and energy out of the equation then you can say--NO WE DON'T HAVE NO STINKIN INFLATION. Or as some brilliant economist told me DEFLATION!!!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Mar 13, 2011, at 7:29 AM

Maybe that should be

unions....0

oh well it is hard to tell the difference.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Mar 13, 2011, at 6:51 AM

Score in Wisconsin

Taxpayers.....1

Democrats.....0

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Mar 13, 2011, at 6:46 AM

In reading about the Teachers Unions and Public sector unions in general I found some interesting tid bits of information.

In ONE year the Union dues exceed 7 BILLION dollars. Unions vote primarly ONLY with the Democrats. People cry about a millionaire pair of brothers like the Kochs and their influence, but when an entity can contribute 7 BILLION dollars to support ONLY Democrats and lawyers to file time consuming lawsuits against republicans and pay to organize ACORN type activities where voter fraud and voter registration fraud is constantly taking place, how can you NOT see that this is a corrupt process. Because you have an election cycle every 2 years, that is 14 BILLION or more dollars JUST FROM DUES to use to influence elections and bribe politicians.

How can you not look at this and see that the TAX Payer is getting screwed by public unions and their bribery monies where the Democrats get elected and are beholden to the Unions because they rely on them to get the next years campaign donations.

You cry about rich corporations and their influence on the political process. YET UNIONS contribute as much or more toward the leftist big government process because corporations hedge their bets and spend money on BOTH parties where as the Unions only spend their money on Democrats.

As the NEA president stated in a recent video, they dont care about kids or even teachers, they care about their union dues so they have the power to influence elections that will grant them more power.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Mar 12, 2011, at 3:39 PM

news... they only call it class warfare when they are trying to call out for VIOLENT protests when the left does not get their way.... LOL

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Mar 12, 2011, at 3:33 PM

rr

Nice try but most know the Republicans will try to use this budget battle to their advantage and there using people like you as their voice. Have you noticed they wont talk about cutting defense spending? It sounds like this is more of a game to those on the right instead of serious talks.

-- Posted by miss october on Thu, Mar 10, 2011, at 8:42 PM

Reid's Obstructionism May Cause Government Shutdown

Reid has been employing this tactic the last four years to control the agenda in the Senate but he promised to stop this year. Did he keep his promise?

http://www.redstate.com/brian_d/2011/03/...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Mar 10, 2011, at 8:31 PM

Blame the Democrats for High Gas Prices

Wait ten years into Obamacare if you think this is bad.

http://www.redstate.com/erick/2011/03/07...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Mar 10, 2011, at 8:26 PM

One way to look at Wisconsin is the people working and paying the salaries of these public sector employees are finally being represented. Collective bargaining in this case has been against the taxpayer.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Mar 10, 2011, at 8:19 PM

Thanks for posting wtf I went and voted. I remember Keith doodling in math class.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Mar 10, 2011, at 8:16 PM

Thanks for posting this, WTF. Good luck to Keith! I'll go vote now...

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Thu, Mar 10, 2011, at 3:57 PM

Here's one of Marshall's own.

http://www.sedaliademocrat.com/articles/...

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Mar 10, 2011, at 3:22 PM

Amen okr!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Mar 10, 2011, at 12:16 PM

rr3 it sure as heck wasn't what I thought was to be passed.

However, getting to the bottom line much of what we got was of more benefit to Big Pharma, and other corporate owners of Congress, than to the American people.

Guess what, those type results will not change regarding anything Congress does until we diminish that influence, and increase the influence of we human citizens.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Mar 10, 2011, at 10:43 AM

If you remember correctly news this latest Obamacare was shoved down our throats by the Democrats and it is not what they promised.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Mar 10, 2011, at 6:47 AM

A song for Wisconsin Governor Walker and his bosses, the Koch brothers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfq5b1bpp...

...and remember folks,

THEY ONLY CALL IT CLASS-WARFARE WHEN WE FIGHT BACK!!

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 10, 2011, at 5:31 AM

Governor Walker address the People of Wisconsin laying out his plans for the future of the State

Includes video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhVM0HmGa...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 10, 2011, at 3:57 AM

NanaDot

I think you are spot on about the Phelps family.

I watched a documentary about them recently in which the doco maker points out that in fact many of the family have nothing what-so-ever to do with the family Church.

Its an interesting look at the Phelps family. Those that remain in the family compound (yep they have their houses in a block they bought that includes the family Church) are active in the Church and these are the ones we hear about.

However, apparently quite a few of the extended family want nothing to do with the family Church.

I think also, and especially with regards to Margie Phelps, that much of what they do is rooted in their deep loyalty and love of their Father and Grandfather and Great-Grandfather, Rev. Phelps. Family love and loyalty are very strong motivators, and though I don't accept their faith, I do admire the fact that they are loyal to their Mom and Dad. I think most people are that way with their folks. Not all of course share that kind of love and loyalty for their parents but I most of us do to some degree feel a sense of loyalty to our folks.

Also, we should remember that the Phelps are strict Calvinists and follow the teachings of John Calvin to the letter. This is not far from the position of almost all evangelical, Protestant Churches in the USA. While most evangelical Christian leaders may not blame the war in Iraq on American gays, as the Phelps do, many prominent Christian leaders in America were quick to blame the lifestyles of the folks in New Orleans for "offending God" and thus bringing His rath upon them in the form of Hurricane Katrina. I don't see much difference between that Calvinism and the Calvinism of the Phelps family.

So when ever I hear an evangelical Christian critizing the Phelps for their Calvinist belief that God is punishing America for tolerating gay lifestyles, I can't help but think its no more than a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

I strongly disagree with the Phelp's religious position regarding gays, but I also believe that some very good things have emerged from that family including their strong defense of many of our cherished civil rights and the great deal of pro-bono work on behalf of the civil, Constitutional rights of African Americans to be treated as full citizens and with complete equality.

...and one more thing...I think Margie Phelps is the "cat's meow"...lol lol lol. I really like that gal.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Mar 9, 2011, at 7:53 PM

I hear ya OkR, we are the United States of America. it says "united" right in the name. we can do it but we are going to have to sacrifice some sweat and hard work to make up for years of laying back and watching the situation getting worse.

I challenge each of us. (me included) to try to make your neighborhood, block, street, town, state, yard or place of work a lil better today.)

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Wed, Mar 9, 2011, at 12:10 PM

Thanks News for the heads up re: Margie Phelps on youtube. It was very interesting, and I see your point.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Mar 9, 2011, at 12:51 AM

rr3 you said "You know okr and news I think maybe you are becoming conservative because I actually agree with you on a couple of things."

I can't speak for News Across, and would not if I could because he does a fine job of speaking for himself. However I think it is likely he will agree with the remainder of this post.

It is not that I have become more conservative, my values have not changed. What you are seeing is the strong social libertarian values that are at the core of the political philosophy of many populist progressives. In other words, I have a passionate resistance to any form of government telling me, or you, (whether I agree with you or not) or anyone else, that one can not live life, and speak freely about it, as one chooses. That of course, is as long as those choices do not harm another, which is where it begins to get muddled.

You, and I may, or may not agree as to what may, or may not harm another. Even in that troubled ground I would defend your right to express your opinion with the same conviction as if it were my own. At the same time I would insist with that same strong conviction that I not be forced to live with social conditions set by what you believed, but that I did not, nor you by mine. To each his/her own. That my friend, is a libertarian position, and it may well be that we share that philosphy.

I certainly hope that is the case because if so, it is a foundation upon which we can work together for the betterment of our country.

An emotion that we may share, at least I hope we do, is a sense of frustration that the voices of the human citizens are overwhelmed by the power of the voices of the corporate citizens.

That anomaly is not conservative (traditional) in any way, nor is it progressive, it is putting it bluntly, fascism, and serves neither your cause, nor mine regarding points upon which we agree, or disagree.

I fervently believe that unless we can put our differences aside, and work together we will continue our rapid devolution into fascism. The only fear of the dark forces of fascism is that we will put those differences aside, and work together. Hence, they do all they can to keep us divided.

Do you think that we, not just you, and me, but all the people of this once great republic, can work together to restore its glory?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Mar 9, 2011, at 12:24 AM

rr,

Do you by chance know anyone that has been to the hospital or any health care facilty that didnt have any insurance or if they did have you seen an itemized bill within the last year or two?

Those who are actually robbing us are the health care instituitions and insurance companies. What we need in addition or replacing this health care bill is the elimination of for- profit insurance compainies as they have no reason to exist except for profit and whether it be state or federal government or any non profit 3rd party that is unable to take money from any lobbist or coorparation working for the people to reduce by a lot the excess cost of healh care in the U.S.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Mar 8, 2011, at 11:03 PM

rr3yv0

It illustrates another of the many many good reasons we as Americans have to want full socialized health care access for all.

Its much easier to do the accounting and let's face it, health care is not cheap. If we are trying to cut the cost...well with a rising age amongst babyboomers...that is not going to happen no matter what we do.

However we can make sure every American has equal access at no direct cost to the patient. Yes we still have to pay taxes but the improvement to health care access will be well worth the cost. Americans will live longer, feel better, and be healthier -- no matter what their income level or insurance status may be.

Let's do away with the failed health care access policies of the conservatives -- the two major parties -- and let's simplify it the way Australia did and extend medicare coverage to all, eliminate any co-pays and costs to the patient. Let's try something different for a change rather than trying the same failed Republican/Democrat policies and expecting different results.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Mar 8, 2011, at 8:16 PM

Battle Grows Over Obama Administration's Health Care Law Accounting

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/03/...

Oh did we double count, Oh will it cost more then we said it would, Oh are we robbing Peter to pay Paul, Well you know we are really, really sorry.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Mar 8, 2011, at 8:03 PM

You know okr and news I think maybe you are becoming conservative because I actually agree with you on a couple of things. And news I don't hate America but thanks for the terms of endearment anyway.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Mar 8, 2011, at 7:05 PM

Oklahoma Reader

I concur with your opinion.

By the way, have you had a chance to read the arguments made by Margie Phelps?

She demonstrates a brilliant legal mind, incredible critical analysis skills, and an in-depth understanding of Constitutional law the likes of which may not have a match in modern-day, American jurisprudence.

In fact, what I find even more intresting is that many of the precedents in the case arise from other successful arguments she made previously to the Supreme Court in other cases.

She may not be as beautiful as some women. She may have some strange religious beliefs, and if I was not married I would be in a hurry to meet her. I think I am falling in love with her brain lol lol lol lol...

Seriously though,

She is probably one of the best legal minds of the 21st Century.

As you may know that is not unusual for the Phelps family.

Reverand Phelps and 2 of his daughters are attorneys and they have successfully argued landmark civil rights cases -- pro bono -- on behalf of African Americans.

Its difficult for me to not have mixed feelings about the Phelps family. In some ways they have been real champions of freedom and on the other they want to strip some Americans of those same rights for no other reason than that their personal faith -- which Margie knows darn well is not supported by the evidence.

Still...I can't help but admire the extraordinary legal minds that Reverend and Mrs. Phelps have brought into this World.

"Margie Phelps and Frank Ravitch spar about free speech & Westboro Baptist Church"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnIu4iTgP...

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Mar 8, 2011, at 6:58 PM

ND you write so well, and so often that I have to force myself to avoid the redundancy of constantly saying to you, "What you said, great job".

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Mar 8, 2011, at 6:37 PM

Xray I was aware of that, and am proud of the response for the most part. It is what I have advocated as the best answer to hate speech instead of additional legal restrictions. I am pretty sure that you, and I share the opinion that further legal restriction of free speech would ultimately fetter all citizens.

We citizens as exhibited in the Oklahoma incident, are perfectly capable of putting hate speech in its place. We do not need Big Brother's help with that.

Where I draw the line is the latter part of the Oklahoman's response. Letting the air out of the tires of the Wayward Baptist's vehicle, and then a refusal to respond to that action by the populace is purely vandalism, with after the fact abetting by the local citizenry. That has nothing to do with free speech, neither the good side, nor the bad.

In my humble opinion the fact that liberal, centrist, and conservative justices concurred in near unanamity regarding Wayward Baptist, lends credence to the position I propound.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Mar 8, 2011, at 6:28 PM

rr3yv0

Well if you wanted to vote all the liberals out of Congress it would not be much of an effort since you can almost count the number of liberals in the Congress on one hand. There are no liberals in the White House and no liberals on the Supreme Court.

...and that leads one to wonder...since the last major piece of liberal legislation to pass the Congress and be signed into law was the 1964 Civil Rights Act, who are the folks who created the many messes we have now? The answer is easy -- conservatives of both major parties.

...and that is why this American will be supporting the Green Party in the 2012 election.

Its clear the conservatives are in charge, have been in charge for decades, are the one's responsible for the economic and geopolitical problems we face now. It could not have been liberals because their are not enough of them in the Congress to pass anything.

So who does that leave?

Its time we fire the 2 major parties and try something new -- vote Green Party in 2012 and maybe our Nation will progress rather than digress.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Mar 8, 2011, at 5:15 PM

"Pew poll: Clear majority of Americans support legal abortion"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/03/08/pe...

http://people-press.org/report/?pageid=1...

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Mar 8, 2011, at 4:32 PM

cheesehead

Thanks for posting the Rush Limbaugh radio show clip in which he could not explain why the conservatives hold President Reagan in such high esteem given that President Reagan negotiated with terrorists, raised social security taxes, and cut and run from Lebanon.

Lol...

Rush was a bit stumped.

I wish the caller would also have mentioned the fact that Reagan clearly broke our law when he sold the Iranians missles in violation of our law which prohibits weapons sale to Iran -- a prohibition which was passed right after the Iranian hostage crisis overwhelmingly and with full bi-partisian support in both Houses of Congress. You may recall how he "couldn't remember" if he had sold missles to the Iranians then when he was out of office all of a sudden the memory of it came back to him and he admitted that indeed he had sold missles to the Iranians.

I might also add that Reagan was the one responsible for mining Nicaragua's main harbor -- for which the United States was tried and convicted of the war crime in the World Court.

Well...the list goes on and on of Reagan misdeeds.

I guess the answer to the caller's question is so obvious and so easy that Rush didn't dare speak the truth which is that conservatives hate America.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Mar 8, 2011, at 4:20 PM

OKR.... for once you can be proud of your fellow Oklahomians.... IN McAlister, the stupid Westboro folks protested a funeral. After a whole bunch of town citizens stood infront of the WBC idiots and shouted them down and the harley riders revved their engines, someone flattened their tires on their van and NO place would fix the tires until they stopped and called AAA and they ended up getting fixed at some Walmart...

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Mar 8, 2011, at 3:18 PM

Here is MORE evidence of the leftist, elitist bias of NPR from the PRESIDENT OF NPR FOUNDATION:

No more tax dollars! LOL

http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/note...

The video with audio clips is here.

More from the ACORN debacle, FBI investication into ACORN's ST Louis office and voter registration fraud for the purpose of causing confusion and hopefully forcing the polls to remain open longer and to allow people who are not legally able to vote to be able to vote. AND Acorn officials told the workers to not talk to the FBI... lol

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Mar 8, 2011, at 3:16 PM

News, as I checked further on Hickenlooper I found that, to coin a phrase, he is an Odd Duck Democrat. Neither Blue Dog, nor full blown Progressive, he may be that bizarre mix that is representative of something different that can get one elected these days, by folks that are frustrated , disappointed, and independent having left both parties full of scorn.

He is an interesting character. Check him out. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tag/john-h...

Whatever he is it includes being a hypocrite on the issue I posted. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Mar 8, 2011, at 2:41 PM

Cheesehead: Limbaugh in limbo LOL. At least when he stumbled, and couldn't answer, he didn't go into a tirade that continued long after he had hung up on the liberal caller which has been his wont. Perhaps he is on better medication these days?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Mar 8, 2011, at 2:16 PM

News Across, John (I called him Jim) Hickenlooper is not a Blue Dog Democrat, he is pretty much liberal, and I agree with many of his positions. He is a quirky liberal. All that doesn't change that he is a hypocrite on the point that I described. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hicken...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Mar 8, 2011, at 2:06 PM

If anyone wants to hear how Rush Limbaugh reacts when questioned about Ronald Reagan here it is.

Ronald Reagan raised taxes and granted amnesty to illegal aliens all while negotiating with terrorists but is still a hero to conservatives. A Liberal caller asks Rush about this.

http://www.politicususa.com/en/limbaugh-...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Mar 8, 2011, at 10:22 AM

Yep rr3 I am sure the hypocritical Colorado governor is a Democrat. Despite Xray's constant refrain that liberals don't call out Democrats I do so with some frequency. I don't look at the party label, I look at the person. Wrong is wrong no matter the party.

I would like to see you bloggers on the right do the same thing. If you read this Xray how about ceasing your tired refrain that we don't, and instead do so yourself where warranted. Of course if you truly believe that your folks on the right are flawless, I can appreciate your hesitancy. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Mar 8, 2011, at 10:04 AM

Or news maybe we ought to vote all the liberals out we could go either way. But I do agree all currently in office vote out lets start with a clean slate.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Mar 8, 2011, at 7:08 AM

Listen Up, Blogosphere: We Don't Hire Actors to Call This Program

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/s...

I don't know news sounds kind of fishy to me.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Mar 8, 2011, at 7:06 AM

rr,

I am sure you are familiar with the term "Blue-dog Democrat...yes there are many conservatives in the Democrat Party and frankly I wish they would just go over completely to the Republicans -- leave the Democrat Party completely...forever.

...or better yet...we can solve the problem at its source and vote all conservatives out of Government regardless of party affiliation.

That would be a good start to getting our Nation going in the correct direction rather than down the road the conservatives are taking our Federal and State Governments right now.

Its time we all,,,

Just say NO! to conservative politicians in 2012!!

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Mar 8, 2011, at 7:00 AM

Are you sure he is a Democrat okr?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Mar 8, 2011, at 6:21 AM

Tom Cruse has more than one reason to jump up, and down on a couch.

One of his really sweet deals is that he bought a twohundred and forty eight acre property near Telluride Colorado for eighteen million dollars. By gaming the system he pays only four hundred dollars per year in property tax to the state of Colorado.

I suppose that is O. K. because Democratic governor Jim Hickenlooper is doing the same thing. Meanwhile, that hypocrite is advocating drastically cutting teachers, and other parts of public education because guess what, they don't have enough revenue in their property tax base to meet those public needs.

What a world. http://thinkprogress.org/2011/03/07/tom-...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Mar 7, 2011, at 11:35 PM

"Exclusive: Limbaugh's parent co. still using actors to fake radio call-ins, exec tells Raw"

http://www.rawstory.com/

http://www.tabletmag.com/life-and-religi...

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Mar 7, 2011, at 7:03 PM

Nan,

Wow! when you write,

"... the reason that we are largely in the resource wars that we are is because our population has overshot the Earth's capacity to provide adequately for all of the people. Now, we can either sanely and responsibly reduce our population by giving women informed choices and options in reproduction, or the Earth will correct the situation for us - and it will be ugly."

you hit the nail right on the head.

Its sad that their are folks out there who think the capacity of our Rarth to support our population is unlimited. Its limited and you are 100% correct that Mother Nature will correct the situation whether we likd it or not. That is a fact.

For anyone interested in learning what overpopulation can do to an isolated population (the entire population of our World is isolated on the planet Earth -- this is it -- there is no other reachable planet that can sustain Human life), they may want to read the story of Easter Island. It shows just how Mother Nature responds to overpopulation.

"Carrying capacity of a biological species"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrying_ca...

"Easter Island Histor -- Legacy of Statues"

http://www.allaboutpopularissues.org/eas...

"The Lessons of Easter Island"

http://www.primitivism.com/easter-island...

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Mar 7, 2011, at 5:02 PM

arojr

Nice work mate.

Your comment was well written, informative, and well supported.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Mar 7, 2011, at 4:32 PM

rr3yv0

For those folks up there in Washington, being a politician IS their job.

I think that is a sad commentary on our society and our democracy when we have such a thing as a career politician.

I say we throw all the bums out and elect all new people to every elected position in Washington.

Its time the bumbs in Washington learn what it is to bust their rear-ends, for long hours. day in and day out, trying to put food on the table.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Mar 7, 2011, at 4:30 PM

Oil prices can be moved by geopolitics, the value of the dollar or Chinese demand. Gas prices can be moved by oil prices, refinery problems or even weather that might keep drivers at home. For example, gas prices are expected to rise in the next few weeks as refiners switch from cheaper winter blends to more expensive summer ones because the warm air makes gas evaporate faster.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110307/ap_o...

-- Posted by arojr on Mon, Mar 7, 2011, at 4:05 PM

Nana do you mean that teachers, police, caregivers of all kinds, artists, postal carriers, etc. would still go to work if they didn't get paid? I don't think so. My definition of a real job is when you have to go in everyday week after week month after month and actually be productive to put food on the table and pay the bills. I made the reference with no insult intended to anyone with a real job or otherwise. I don't know any family making $40,000 being in a 35% tax bracket. According to the IRS the 35% tax bracket starts at $379,150. Also passive income is taxed and the same rate as earned income I know mine is. Also Nana my riches run far deeper or should I say higher than you will ever know. Oh and yes I do qualify thank you.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Mar 7, 2011, at 3:04 PM

News sometimes I think the union should run a business but then we have people running the country that has never had a real job either. Only to better understand what they are asking of an employer.

News the definition of rich is not defined as to where you are on the pay scale that is your definition and you have no right to what they have. I prefer the informal definition of rich: (a)highly amusing (b)ridiculous;absurd. I think that better applies to what most think as rich. Myself I am rich beyond your wildest dreams but that is another story.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Mar 7, 2011, at 7:03 AM

mrxray

I am very familiar with Planned Parenthood.

I support Planned Parenthood and their mission.

And I bet a large majority of Americans support them too.

Its one thing to get your party elected to the majority of the House, but the hard part is keeping that majority.

I am betting this crazy idea, along with all the other crazy Republican ideas in the House of Representatives by the Republican Party will cost the Republicans that majority in 2012...lol lol lol.

If I could send a message to Lil' Boehner, I would tell him to keep the crazy coming...'cause its a sure-fire guarantee we won't have those crazies up there in Washington again for a long time.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Mar 7, 2011, at 5:40 AM

Not afraid to comment X re: your gun running post. Bottom line is that if we didn't have all those unnecessary military guns floating around we wouldn't have the problem would we? Of course as you full well realize Obama has done nothing regarding gun control, and doesn't intend to. There are reasons that he is a bogey man to you guys on the far right, but much to my chagrin guns ain't one of em. You are beating a dead horse if that is your perception.

rr3, I see that News Across agrees with you on Westboro Baptist, so do I. Are you sure you don't want to reevaluate your position? ;)

By the way I posted my position at length on John Q.Public's blog. There is some interesting commentary there, check it out.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Mar 7, 2011, at 1:45 AM

so you are all scared to comment about the ATF story because you know Obama screwed the pooch on this one along with his DOJ? Or are you still trying to figure out how to blame Bush for this?

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Mar 7, 2011, at 12:02 AM

News... I bet you dont know what the not-so-public but OFFICAL mission of Planned parenthood is that they file with their tax status information with the IRS as a non-profit entity.

Here is a what they stated on their latest tax filing. "To find out, you have to dig through Planned Parenthood's tax forms because the group certainly isn't going to tell you. According to its most recent tax filing, the purpose of Planned Parenthood Federation of America is to provide leadership in "[a]chieving, through informed individual choice, a U.S. population of stable size in an optimum environment; in stimulating and sponsoring relevant biomedical, socio-economic, and demographic research.""

It has NOTHING to do with protecting the right of a woman to choose nor to protect the freedom to kill a baby. It is all about population control.

You have to scroll down to page 78 of 86 pages on the tax filing link to see the quote the article refers to

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-s...

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Mar 6, 2011, at 11:50 PM

NanaDot

Yeah...it didn't take me long to realize who ordered those shells to be put there -- the same folks that benefited from it -- The Republican Governor and the Teaparty leaders and bankrollers, the Koch Brothers.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Mar 6, 2011, at 7:48 PM

rr

Now hang on to your seat mate...because...

WE AGREE ON SOMETHING!!

I have long argued that what the folks at Westboro Baptist do -- demonstrating at funerals -- is perfectly Constitutional and a lawful exercise of their 1st Ammendment right to Free Speech and Free Assembly.

While I may not like their message, the 1st Ammendment guarantee of free speech and free assembly are not there to protect speech and assembly that is well accepted by the majority -- rather it is entirely there to protect those who hold opinions that are offensive to the majority.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Mar 6, 2011, at 7:45 PM

Oh rr, you ask where we draw the line as to who is rich?

That is easy mate...at the point where there is a huge jump in terms of wealth and/or income that far surpasses the average wealth and/or income of the average of the previous jumps in wealth.

That pretty much narrows things down to the somewhere between the top 10% and the top 1%.

...and yeah...if We the People say they have to give the People none, some, or all of their wealth...then that is what we will do and there is nothing the rich can do about except hand it over and pray we don't slap them up on the good ol' guillotine.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Mar 6, 2011, at 7:39 PM

rr3yv0

Unions don't run the business mate. That is management's responsibility.

The union of employees is for purposes of negotiating the employment contract.

Running the business is the employer's responsibility.

Asking anyone to show you a union that runs a business well is like saying show me a fish the can fly like an eagle. The fact is the fish is not designed by nature to fly like an eagle and a union is not designed by its owners -- the employees -- to run the business.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Mar 6, 2011, at 7:33 PM

Nana,

These Republicans are doing everything they can to shut down the protests and/or limit acess to the capitol. If the Governor was thinking of puting troublemakers in the crowd and got called on it, so this was there second option and it probably got them some extra police at the capital.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Sun, Mar 6, 2011, at 3:31 PM

Observation? I am very calm. Lil' buddy!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Mar 6, 2011, at 9:41 AM

Merely an observation. Calm down lil' buddy.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Mar 6, 2011, at 9:08 AM

I didn't say they had the market cornered wtf, now did I?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Mar 6, 2011, at 8:10 AM

rr3yvo said;

" I think it is a shame they try to represent a Christian group that I don't think are acting Christ-like"

Ironically, the Westboro Baptist Church doesn't have that particular market cornered.

There's a lot of that going around.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Mar 6, 2011, at 7:56 AM

Westboro Case Strengthens Free Speech Rights For All

I don't like what they do but I totally agree with the court on this. I think it is a shame they try to represent a Christian group that I don't think are acting Christ-like. But that is just my opinion.

http://www.npr.org/2011/03/05/134287458/...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Mar 6, 2011, at 7:18 AM

Michael Moore is saying that the rich need to give up their fortunes. Who is going to define rich? If any of us fall in that category will we give up our wealth? Who would be willing? Rich is an arbitrary figure usually defined by someone that is not? Or by other rich people that won't give up their wealth? Where does it end? Is everything we have belong to the government and we should feel good about what they let us keep and enjoy? Would Moore give up his fortune?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Mar 6, 2011, at 7:08 AM

Name for me something run well by a public sector union?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Mar 6, 2011, at 7:01 AM

Live Ammo Found Outside Wisconsin Capitol

What I find ironic is that nothing is being said about this and the what it will cost to clean this mess up. NOTHING! Where is the outrage News, Nana, Okr, Miss October, Cheese, Wtf. I mean come on where is the outrage? What if this was a Tea Party rally? We wouldn't hear the end of this, whether it was true or not. News I checked Raw Story and not a peep on there. Even without the live ammo look at the destruction left in the wake of these protest. Inexcusable!

http://www.myfoxmemphis.com/dpps/news/li...

PS-I know all of you will attack the source and not really address the issue. But thats ok. I know what the response will be.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Mar 6, 2011, at 6:54 AM

xray,

Time for nite,nite.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Mar 6, 2011, at 6:43 AM

http://www.sedaliademocrat.com/articles/...

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Mar 6, 2011, at 12:49 AM

PS Correction to my post Agent Brian Terry was NOT ATF but a Customs and Borders agent

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Mar 6, 2011, at 12:36 AM

Well. Obama's Dept of Justice has stepped in another pile of male cow waste. The DOJ ordered ATF to allow guns to be "run" to the Mexican drug cartels and the ATF agents had to allow it. They allowed at least 360 guns like AK like assault rifles and Barret .50 cals to be taken from gun shops back to Mexico During March 2010. And during March 2010 960 people were killed in Mexico. Now two of those guns were used to kill ATF agent Brian Terry.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/03/0...

Now the ATF has tried to deny it but more sources are coming out... so what did the DOJ and ATFadmin do in response? Sent out memos to media outlets to not run this story, but instead run happy and nice stories about successes in the ATF in the hopes that the good stories drown out the HORRIBLE story about a HORRIBLE policy and the HORRIBLE response that the DOJ and ATF and Obama have had to the death of an ATF in which this policy contributed.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20...

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Mar 6, 2011, at 12:34 AM

cheesy... lol we ALL know fox is biased... how come YOU cannot admit and show examples of the main stream alphabet soup media outlets bias? That would garner you at least a LITTLE respect instead of blind conservatism hatred... lol

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Mar 6, 2011, at 12:25 AM

I found a channel on you tube dedicated to pointing on examples of fox news bias and how they try to spin the news they report on. Take a look at this video and suscribe to see more like it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bky0cXRj...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Sat, Mar 5, 2011, at 11:44 PM

Oh hey,

in an unrelated matter...

I ran across this video while I was looking for the Merle Haggard tune.

Its just a great tune and it has Buck Owens in it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBaVUaHlZ...

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Mar 5, 2011, at 4:14 AM

OKR,

I had a friend in Chicago that was a bicycle mechanic. He was one of the best I have ever seen.

He was from Oklahoma.

He didn't talk much about Oklahoma but I knew he was born and raised there.

Usually when Oklahoma was mentioned, he would just shake his head and then move on with something else...lol.

I asked him once if he would ever consider moving back to Oklahoma and he just laughed.

I have to admit, I have never been there...but I have listened to Merel Haggard's "Okie From Muskogee" which I hear is almost as good as actually being there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iYY2FQHF...

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Mar 5, 2011, at 3:41 AM

One other thing I gotta share. In our city wide council elections the one sitting Tea Party endorsed Councilman was ousted by his opponent, an accountant running for political office for the first time.

Even better, there were Tea Party endorsed candidates in three other wards. All three came out of the very militant ultra-conservative Windsor Hills Baptist Church. All three finished at the bottom of the pack!

I am not yet sure what is going on here in Oklahoma City, but there is one point I now must consider. Could it be that we are so far ahead of most places in our movement toward extreme conservatism, that the people here are already beginning to see through their sham? Time will tell.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Mar 5, 2011, at 12:46 AM

I just the other day voted for a green candidate as city council person for my ward. Party affiliations are not a part of our city council, so it wasn't an official Green Party vote. He was master of ceremonies when Ralph Nader was here recently so he has credentials as far as I am concerned.

Lo, and behold in this conservative backwash he finished second out of six candidates, and is in a run off!

He finished eight points behind the leading candidate so has some ground to make up. It will be difficult as his opponent sent out, I swear this is true, an average of thirty shiny "vote me" cards per week to our household the last three weeks prior to the primary. and was all over the television. My guy is a Doctor, this opponent is a banker, and people don't know where all his money is coming from. I am hoping that people, even people here, are beginning to get the message if somebody is giving him all that money, and he won't tell who, he ain't gonna listen to me.

I'll keep you posted. Weird stuff does occasionally happen here...maybe this will be one of those cases.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Mar 5, 2011, at 12:26 AM

OKR,

Without question, the conservatives in both major parties are taking us in a direction towards disaster.

We don't have to put up with it.

We can vote 3rd Party.

We can vote Green Party and change course in the correct direction and ensure the future of our children and grand-children.

We just have to be willing to do it.

They did it here in Australia.

The Green Party controls the Senate here.

It took a long time and came in small steps, but the people here finally have tired of their 2 major parties -- their versions of the Republicans and Democrats -- and now it looks as if the Greens might even take the House here in the next election as well.

Our economy in Australia is fantastic!! Its the best its been in years. We have socialized health care -- everyone is covered -- and life is good. Naturally, its not perfect here. The Aussies still are having immigration problems, troops in Afghanistan, and they are sorting out their climate change policies, just to name a few of problems they are working through here, but a person can find work here with no problem, make a decent living, and enjoy a bunch of government programs that assist Australians in everything from buying their first homes to starting a new, small business. So far, these social programs and the Australian Government's Keyensian economic policies, which were a direct result of pressure from the Greens, seem to be very successful.

The Greens have been a big influence on the direction Australia is headed -- and it seems to be the correct direction.

Maybe its time we Americans give the Greens a chance in Washington.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Mar 4, 2011, at 6:48 PM

That's pretty funny stuff okr.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Mar 4, 2011, at 1:43 PM

Eliminationism by Limbaugh. http://www.talk2action.org/story/2011/3/...

If you don't know what eliminationism means it is time you do.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Mar 3, 2011, at 11:39 PM

When is a Democrat not a Democrat? Answer: When he is elected to Congress on the Democratic ticket in Oklahoma. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...

Oklahoma has become a one party state. One party rule in this state failed when it was the Democrats, and is failing again under Republican rule.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Mar 3, 2011, at 11:17 PM

I very much appreciate the economic education in news across postings. The very thing he has described about unions is part of Marshall, Mo's history. From 1973 to 1990 Wilson Foods operated a Hog processing plant where the hourly employees were represented by a union. I won't comment about the quality of this union, but they did represent the employees. Union packing house pay was relative high compared to other manufacturing, but considering the work conditions in a packing house, cold, wet, hot, humid, bloody, slimy, etc, the pay was probably not high enough. These workers worked for the higher pay so they could enjoy the weekends and afford more. A substantial middle class resulted, and these workers had nice homes, new cars, a boat in the driveway, etc. When the union was driven out of meat packing and lower wages resulted, the middle class that had developed started to diminish. I think what happened in this example is happening all over the U.S. and we are losing our middle class. Thank you "news across" for explaining some of these economic concepts.

-- Posted by izaak on Thu, Mar 3, 2011, at 10:04 PM

RR3... I know that news is saying we are in a deflationary situation because housing prices are falling... BUT housing prices are only falling because they were grossly inflated due to bad government policies that prevented the market from cycling as it normally does and instead created a fake "good" market where people were buying houses by the truck load and trying to instantly flip em for a profit and people buying houses with bad/risky loans added to this... so housing prices are coming back down to hopefully historically normal prices. HOWEVER, almost every other aspect of our economy is costing more... add to this is the whole mid-east uproar and the increasing oil prices and soon we will be in full fledge inflationary times... even if some do not see that we are already headed in that direction.

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Mar 3, 2011, at 9:56 PM

"Wisconsin voters launch recall campaign against Republican state senators"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/03/02/wi...

UH OHHH!

Wadda we do!! Wadda we do!!!

lol lol lol lol lol lol...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 3, 2011, at 1:38 PM

No rr,

Actually money is created by banks...but that is a lesson that will have to wait till another day.

Money 1, spendable cash dollars, make up only a very small part of the money supply and most money actually only exists on paper.

However, I did not want to discuss money and banking but rather I wanted to point out that the reason some things are increasing in price is because oil is price inelastic relative to demand over the short term which means consumers are unable to respond to price increases in oil effectively enough to cause the price to reverse and drop. It effectively means that the multi-national, non-American oil companies -- all 3 of them -- can basically charge you anything they want over the short term (1 year). This has an effect on most manufactured goods and of course agriculture and transportation as well. It would account for the price increases you have mentioned that you have seen in your local area.

However, that is not inflation. The "Inflationary Gap" is that distance on the positive X,Y portion of the cartesian coordinate system above the equilibrium point of quantity supplied and quantitied demanded. It is the result of too many folks working and spending their income (limited savings). Yes its a period of rising prices -- specifically rising prices of new housing starts and durable goods such as automobiles, airconditioners, washing machines, ect. The way we normally deal with inflation is to limit the money supply -- specifically liquidity. It means that we allow interests rates -- specifically the Prime Rate of the Federal Reserve -- to rise (Monetary Policy). This chokes off some borrowing by business and ultimately means a cooling in employment but its a calculated and controlled cooling.

However, we are not in an inflationary period now as I have said. We are in a deflationary period which is far more dangerous than simple inflation.

To learn more about deflation and what defines it, please see the simple description I provided in my previous comment.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 3, 2011, at 1:32 PM

News I am sure glad I can provide comic relief for you. Why do you always have to use scurrilous words to try to make a point? Not very becoming for you. I would like to differ on your opinion of inflation though.

INFLATION---Econ. a persistent substantial rise in the general level of prices related to an increase in the volume of money and resulting in the loss of value of currency (opposed to deflation).

I mean here in the USA we are paying higher prices because the fed is printing money making it worth less. That kind of fits the definition but that's just my opinion.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Mar 3, 2011, at 11:29 AM

mrxray

An inflationary gap is when the price of goods lies above the equilibrium point of where the price should be relative to demand and supply.

Simply put, its too many dollars chasing too few goods. This occurs when you have over-employment. It is easily controlled with monetary policy.

However, a period in which the over-all price of new housing starts and durable goods is falling and unemployment is rising quickly or is already high is defined as a deflationary period. The dollar is worth more, but far fewer people have dollars to spend. The result is decreased consumption which leads to more layoffs and even further decreasing consumption...aka, deflationary spiral.

I hope that clears things up for you.

As to the free market economy you refer to which is unguided captialtism, we can see how well that has worked out for Haiti, Mexico, and the Philippines.

Or we can look at our own history and see what happened when free market reigned free in America around the turn of the Century. It made most folks who lived in the cities dirt poor, wage slaves at the mercy of their employer's every whim. That is why We the People established unions in the first place.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 3, 2011, at 11:14 AM

Palin's Mis-Tweet

Former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin joined the budget-bashing, using the social networking site Twitter to spread a falsehood about Obama's budget cuts on the day that the president presented his budget.

Sarah Palin, Feb. 14: Here's how minuscule the White House's $775 million a year cuts are: less than 1/10 of 1% of this year's budget deficit http://j.mp/fsjlop

But the White House isn't planning to cut $775 million next budget year. The president's budget proposed cuts totaling $33 billion in 2012 discretionary spending (see pages 3 to 5 for a tabulated account of the cuts).

Palin's mis-tweet, which has since been re-tweeted by more than 100 users, links to Glenn Beck's conservative website The Blaze. A blog item on the conservative website mischaracterized a recent op-ed by White House Budget Director Jacob Lew. Palin sent the tweet following the president's budget announcement, but The Blaze post was written five days before by Mike Opelka. The Blaze mocked the $775 million as the total amount of proposed cuts, but they were merely examples offered by Lew:

Opelka, Feb. 9: White House Budget Director Jack Lew penned a piece for the New York Times that let us all know the President made some "tough choices" when cutting an estimated $775 million from the 3.8 TRILLION dollar budget.

In his article, Lew gave three examples of cuts that totaled $775 million, and said they were "only a small fraction" of the total cuts:

Lew, Feb. 5: These three examples alone, of course, represent only a small fraction of the scores of cuts the president had to choose, but they reflect the tough calls he had to make.

Using the right numbers, Obama's proposed 2012 discretionary cuts represent 2 percent of the $1.645 trillion projected deficit. Still a small amount, but it's 20 times larger than what Palin claimed

http://factcheck.org/2011/02/budget-spin...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Thu, Mar 3, 2011, at 11:01 AM

Phil,

At first it was Kenya then it was the madrassas. Im not really sure why he is talking like this it doesnt make much sense to me. Is he just misinformed or just appealing to his tea partiers?

He is starting to sound as intelligent as Sarah Palin does.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Thu, Mar 3, 2011, at 10:47 AM

OKR,

I watched a clip last night of Huckabee trying to explain his Kenya mistake. He claims to have simply mis-spoke, and meant to say Indonesia rather than Kenya. Personally, I think he mis-remembered making it as bad as you said. I did like his one liner at the end of the clip though. I don't remember it word for word, but basically he said that anyone can mis-speak, and if he had to travel to all 57 states to explain it, he would.

-- Posted by Philemon on Thu, Mar 3, 2011, at 8:09 AM

RR3... definition of Inflation... a time where goods and services increase in cost but the value of money stays the same or decreases....this occurs over a sustatained period of time

interesting read, not sure of news's references, but I know our comodity prices have been increasing at the same time that the fed has been printing more and more money... more printed money means the dollar is worth less....

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archi...

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Mar 3, 2011, at 4:54 AM

RR3... the trouble with News' thoughts and ideas... errrr OPINIONS about economics is that he stands STRICTLY by a THEORY. As we all know theories, especially economic theories, are formulated by preconcieve ideals and desires, political influences, life experiences and etc. Show me one economic theory that can fully and accurately provide a factor for human flaws, into any economic equation. Show me one theory that adequately factors in human greed, greed for money and power by politicians, greed by unions and employees, greed by employers.

The problem with the whole concept of Perfect Competition is that humans are greedy and will not willingly accept less for their labor...

Also, what news is describing, can you tell me how that is any different from a free market where people would either accept or refuse a wage based on how many jobs were available, or how many people were trained to do a job or other similar factors.... what unions and minimum wages prevent is the natural cycle of economies by placing artificial limits on business owners and those limits are in fact increased costs of doing business and those costs are passed on to the consumer, harming the poor people most.

In a world of less regulation, we would have a balance between what people would accept as pay for a specific job and what employers want to pay. If the employees felt that they did not get enough pay then they would go find someone else that paid more.

In a world where dont value ethics and morals as valuable comodities then we have to have regulations and laws to protect people from powerful entities. However, if we are going to set minimum wages and benefits and the like and increase the cost of doing business how can we in turn complain about people getting rich from creating a business, running, having the financial risk of failure?

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Mar 3, 2011, at 4:46 AM

OKR,

Your anaylsis of the corner Murdoch has painted himself into is excellent.

Here in Australia the people laugh at Fox News -- and anyone who watches Fox...lol. I don't know of a single person -- save for the some of the very few of the right wing crazies here -- that take Murdoch or Fox News seriously as a source of accurate, factual news. But Fox and Murdoch do make great topics for laughs.

For real news, most folks here tend to watch our Australian Public Broadcasting service which is a publicly funded, independent news source. They tend to stick with the facts -- rather than inventing news with their imagination as Fox does.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 3, 2011, at 3:38 AM

rr3yv0

Lol I read the opinion piece you posted the link to.

After I got done laughing, I tried to find the authors name so I could learn his or her field of expertise...'cause after reading that bologna I was pretty sure he or she is not an economist.

Alas, I never could find the authors name...

...so I guess we will never know anything about the author of that nonsense except that he or she knows little or nothing of economics short of a few opinion pieces in some other crazy right wing website by some other un-named author that the author of the piece you posted had read.

Anyway, nationally there cannot be an inflationary gap because of high and rising unemployment, very very tight liquidity, and falling consumption of new housing starts and durable goods. Our economy is no where near overheated. In fact, just the opposite Yes you will see the prices of some things in your area rise. There are other factors that can affect the prices of various products and services. However, that is not what an inflationary gap is nor are the conditions right for an inlationary gap to emerge. What we economists watch in terms of what the economy is doing are primarily, growing and high unemployment, consumption of durable goods and new housing starts, and the effects of Perfect Competition.

Stagflation is even more complex than inflation. Its causes however are primarily the same. You could say that stagflation is the end result of long-term, uncontrolled inflation or hyperinflation.

However, none of the conditions necessary to cause stagflation are present.

You can believe whatever you want buddy, but the fact is we are in a deflationary economic period. That is a fact. Consumer spending, and long-term consumption of new housing starts and durable goods has decreased dramatically. High unemployment -- one of the root causes of the current deflationary period -- began in 2007. Bush dealt with the liquidity side of the problem but did so recklessly and the cost was very high. Obama has also attempted to deal with the deflation by shoring up liquidity and attempting to pump money into the system on the supply side of the equation. I don't believe that will work. It never worked before. Neither do many of my collegues think that will work.

Never the less, we remain in a deflationary...not inflationary or staglationary -- period.

You of course are welcome to believe whatever you want. No matter how wrong you think I am or how wrong you are, one thing is for sure, if the Republicans get their way, you will suffer in the coming economy just as much as your neighbors mate.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 3, 2011, at 2:53 AM

Poor Rick Santori. Man he was dogged to his end of a Fox run by his past comments. That man fit no better at Fox than his man and dog comments fit propriety, and reason.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Mar 3, 2011, at 12:39 AM

And before anyone goes righteous on me, defends Fox, and begins pointing fingers about the remainder of the mainstream media, I concede the point, but you miss mine, if you were about to do just that.

Fox knows that within the American populace, there is a whole bunch of really ignorant people (there is a lot of humanity out there), you know, the ones that believe things like Obama grew up in Kenya, oops that was Mike Huckabee, front running Republican presidential candidate. Well anyway those that have a predilection for making Palinesque remarks regularly, those that scratch their heads a few minutes before marking their X during a game of tic tac toe, are the ones I am talking about.

Fox also knows that those are the folks that make up a goodly portion of their audience. It is all about ratings in the mainstream media, and advertising bucks. Even if Fox's management was not arm, and arm with the theocorporatist powers that be, they could not stop peddling the p*op because it would cost them audience which translates to money. They have painted themselves into a corner. They could not be a valid source of news, and keep that audience. They can not give up that audience so they have long since given up any pretension of being a nationally respected source of news, to say nothing of world respect. They are what they are, and either revel in it, or revel in the bucks it brings in, or both, that doesn't really matter any more.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Mar 3, 2011, at 12:14 AM

Stagflation 2011: Why It Is Here And Why It Is Going To Be Very Painful

Going to be like the 70's again only worse. I told you this is Carter's second term.

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archi...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Mar 2, 2011, at 9:27 PM

Normally we think of unions being against some big fat cat CEO of some major corporation. In Wisconsin what are the public sector unions against? The taxpayer? Then when they deny pay based on merit and the ability to fire poor teachers who are they against? The children?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Mar 2, 2011, at 9:15 PM

News if we are not in an inflationary period then why does everything I buy such as groceries, gas, electricity, entertainment, etc. costs more and more? Especially in the last 2 years. What is wrong with competition in the workplace just like competition in business. We the consumer benefit when businesses compete because we get more bang for our buck. An example is my internet service cost is 2.5 times what the same service is in a neighboring town because where i live we only have one provider. That may eventually change but is that fair? The way I see it I can move or pay the price it is up to me. That should be the same for a job. Should I have to pay a union to have a certain job is that fair? I guess if I want the job I pay the price. Should I pay the price through my taxes and not have the job or the benefits? Something to think about.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Mar 2, 2011, at 10:52 AM

Most workers have the right to organize and bargain as a single unit rather than seeing wages drop rapidly. And all workers should have that right.

However, supporting unions is just plain ol' good economic sense.

The economic situation you describe, one of rising prices, is an inflationary period. When an inflation gap occurs -- an overheated economy -- it can be easily managed with Monetary Policy..tightening the money supply and forcing a controlled cooling down of the economy.

However we are not in an inflationary period.

We are in a deflationary period which is, by its very nature, inclusive of Perfect Competion mechanisms. In such an economy -- where workers are forced to negotiate and down-bid their wages against each other, without having the right to bargain their pay, benefits and rights at work, collectively and democratically, Perfect Competition will drive down wages through out the specific geographic region and, eventually, spread Nationally. This would further reduce consumption of new housing starts and durable goods -- the engine of our economy. Its kinda like watering down your gas and thinking it will give you better performance...and to allow that to happen in a deflationary period is like throwing water on a fire and expecting more heat.

If you think returning to the days of the Great Trusts is a good idea...move to Haiti. If you want your children and grandchildren to earn good wages and benefits, support unions.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Mar 1, 2011, at 10:04 PM

News I don't think I support an economy like you describe. What I don't see is the benefit of constantly paying higher and higher wages and benefits when as a result consumer goods go up and up because labor is such a huge cost to almost any business. As for in Wisconsin as an example why should public sector workers be paid at a higher rate for doing the same as someone in the private sector that is paying taxes to contribute to their wages. I have to say I have been blessed by not being in a union but in management the union won't represent us. It doesn't matter how many hours we work or what we get paid, but we better not breech the contract with one of our employees. The union also don't care what hardship is placed on the employer or the public for that matter. To me public sector unions are a conflict of interest when they represent the voters of the very people they work for. The union is kind of like someone that is educated beyond their intelligence and has no common sense or business sense but yet can theoretically tell you how it is supposed to be done. I know you will probably try to educate me on what a union is and what they represent but please spare me and everyone else on here. I just tossed out some ideas and opinions and I trust that most that post on here don't need educated on what a union is. I could post some links on here but I am sure they would not be credible or pass your peer review so I thought I would spare you the time mate.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Mar 1, 2011, at 8:23 PM

rr3yv0

Do you support an economy that drives workers wages down by pressure exerted by "Perfect Competition"?

Do you support a society that encourages workers to compete and bid against each other for lower and lower wages?

Without unions, that is what we will get...

...and its not just factory or food industry jobs that will pay less and less. As overall wages and income decrease, consumption decreases. As consumption decreases, the number of job positions decrease...across the board. Perfect Competition then begins to exert a downward force on professional salaries -- especially in management. In fact, in a deflationary period such as the current Great Depression II, Perfect Competion -- a natural mechanism of capitalist economies -- ultimately drives down all prices including the price of labor. If you support policies that result in perfect competition then you may want to get used to the idea of receiving a salary cut -- many of them -- in the not so distant future.

I recommend when it comes to the future of our Nation, we choose very carefully at this juncture of the life of our Nation. Our entire future as a 1st World Nation may very well rest upon the decisions we make today.

If we choose wrong...well...take a good look at economies where labor Unions are discouraged and perfect competition rules supreme. Take a good look at the economies of Nations such as the Philippines, Mexico, and Haiti.

Republican Party Policy, in regards to unions and collective bargaining and in regards to Government job layoffs, are putting the final nails in the coffin of our already downward deflating economy.

The Republicans are taking us in the complete opposite direction we need to be going if we ever expect to see any reversal of the current deflation and see new, good-paying-joh growth.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Mar 1, 2011, at 6:05 PM

I think the Governor of Wisconsin is planning to lay off public employees anyways regardless of what the Dems are doing he just wants some sort of scapegoat, so he doesnt have to bear the pushback from it. He wants private employees and corporate takeovers just as many us believe.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Mar 1, 2011, at 9:51 AM

Watch as the Fox news reporter comes close to reading the Bill O Reilly is a sexual predator sign out loud to his audience.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuT9Wgv21...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Mar 1, 2011, at 9:47 AM

Here's the link.

http://www.redstate.com/laborunionreport...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Mar 1, 2011, at 5:36 AM

Beyond the Left's Talking Points: WI Protests Are About Union Power & Money

It's all about votes and power it doesn't matter if they are good for anything.

Beyond the Left's Talking Points: WI Protests Are About Union Power & Money

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Mar 1, 2011, at 5:34 AM

Washington Post's Greg Sargent Demands Unions Get Violent. Union Goons Attack Fox Reporter.

He says oh I was being sarcastic, but would the left extend the same courtesy to the right? I don't think so. And newspapers wonder why people don't read them.

http://www.redstate.com/erick/2011/02/28...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Mar 1, 2011, at 5:30 AM

Does anyone want to know some of the lies the speakers at the cpac convention that were thrown out? I just wonder if these guys dont actually know the facts or if they are intentionally misleading people.

http://factcheck.org/2011/02/factcheckin...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Mon, Feb 28, 2011, at 10:53 PM

Wisconsin Democrats now owe state $165,000,000.

Maybe they should be without a job.

http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2011/02...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Feb 28, 2011, at 7:04 PM

Union workers stage a sick out and leave 174 developmentally disabled clients and critically ill patients waiting for a bus that never came. I don't care what there cause is they were hired to do a job and for not doing it they should be fired. We have plenty of people out a work that can take their place.

http://www.redstate.com/laborunionreport...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Feb 28, 2011, at 7:03 PM

rr

I definately believe in a free and open society with full access to information -- including information on all the evil things the USA has been doing behind our backs.

I did indeed read the opinion piece you posted. However, the author's lack of objectivity wipes out any credibility he may have began with. Perhaps if he had quoted some accurate, objectively gathered information or data to support his thesis we would not even be discussing his lack of credibility.

No offense mate, I did read it, but I don't think his thesis is worth discussing since its based only in his ultra-right-wing, Republican, opinion and has no bearing on socialist or liberal ideology. In fact, socialism is an economic system -- it is based in economic theory -- not a political system, so his thesis is clearly way off-base right from the start.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Feb 28, 2011, at 5:30 PM

rr3yvo,

...and you've helped the conservative cause how?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Feb 28, 2011, at 12:11 PM

Nice to share your opinion on an opinion piece news. And also your opinion of the author but no opinion on the subject matter. I think it proves the point very well that liberalism is not about persuasion is it? It is about intimidation and discrediting your opponent no matter whether they are right or wrong. It is an agenda isn't it? It can never be the free exchange of ideas can it? You know news you can be as derogatory as you want but will it really help the liberal cause? I don't think so but that is just my opinion mate.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Feb 28, 2011, at 6:59 AM

I,m soooo glad you could get that out of the way news. You post my sentiments exactly to describe the last 2 years. Thanks mate.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Feb 28, 2011, at 6:28 AM

Thank goodness there is an election next year.

These crazy Republicans have to go...for the sake of the Nation.

They are going to drive our economy, our civil rights, and our traditional rights to collective bargaining right into the ground.

In 2012, its time the Silent Majority step forward and rid our Nation of this scourge.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Feb 28, 2011, at 2:17 AM

MrXray,

Your imagination is running away with itself. I didn't say PBS news isn't slanted one way or the other. What I said is that I agreed with OKR that PBS news is the least biased of all the news services, and that is according to polls showing PBS news to be the most believable. This is not to say that it shouldn't improve.

You'll need more than the Juan Williams incident to prove your hypothesis, but I agree that it's a black mark on their record. It's not like they're the only ones who made a mistake.

I'll give you teh point about the money pile being a great temptation. Time will tell.

I have no knowledge of PBS funding sources, except for what I see advertised on the network. I have no idea how much money the government puts into it. Maybe government support is enough to prevent the crooks from getting a grip on it.

By the way, Texas has a public radio system, and I haven't heard Rick Perry threatening to withhold funding.

Whatever happens in Washington to reduce the deficit, you can bet the effort will be half-baked and nearly ineffective. I say that because I believe there aren't enough smart people sitting in Congress and elsewhere up there to make much difference.

What? You want to eliminate the Social Security program? If I didn't believe differently, I'd say you also want to start the first world war over again.

If a coordinated effort was made for a protest march on Washington, would you support it? Would you join it, or would you leave it to us retired folks since we have time on our hands?

Do you email your legislators and encourage them to work cooperatively, or do you not bother, or do you send emails encouraging them to NOT work cooperatively?

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Feb 28, 2011, at 12:43 AM

xray,

Polls now suggest the PBS is the most trusted network on TV nowdays. You should try watching even though they dont stick up for the rich or big corporations I think if u watched for awhile you would think they are rather fair.

-- Posted by miss october on Sun, Feb 27, 2011, at 9:47 PM

rr3yv0

With all due respect my friend for your honorable position on the subject,

"Capitalism" Magazine...oh mate, come on...lol...

Yeah, I can see right from the start how objective their opinions are at that mag.

...but getting back to this opinion piece by Michael Hurd...and mate, God bless ya I know your heart is in the right place, but I really did enjoy learning about Michael Hurd. I would like to share some of his more "objective" creditentials with you.

1.) Michael Hurd...self professed follower of a loosely coined title of a psuedo-philosphy known as "Objectivism." It was a psuedo-philosphy invented by Ayn Rand. Now that should be setting off alarms in your brain right now -- specifically in that region of the brain that is designed by nature to protect you from crazy nonsense with just the mention of Ayn Rand.

Well right off the bat we see he is not exactly a neutral observer of socialism or "liberalism" (whatever that means).

2.) He works for "Capitalism" Magazine. ....'nough said on that...

3.) He is a self-proclaimed ultra-right-wing-tea-party-type -- meaning he is an ultra-right wing Republican, right wing talk-radio-show DJ.

Lol there is not one objective bone in his body.

Unqualified source...lacks objectivity, cites no objective sources, does not base his conclusions in peer-reviewed, scientificaly derived evidence.

Ok now that we have that out of the way, I hope all is well for you and yours rr.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Feb 27, 2011, at 8:47 PM

Union Chief Doesn't Condemn Comparisons of Wisconsin's Walker to Hitler

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/02/...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Feb 27, 2011, at 7:23 PM

Slater... also look at how PBS handled Juan Williams... LOL and you are saying PBS is not a left slanted outlet?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Feb 27, 2011, at 7:13 PM

Slater...I think that PUBLIC radio needs not a dollar of tax payer funds... HOWEVER While Soros might not fund NPR he did donate about 1.8 million to NPR and they are hiring more POLITICAL reporters across the nation... exactly how can one claim that Soros tainted money will not influence the type of reporters and with what political bias will they be looking to hire? Conservative ones that will speak out against Soros?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Feb 27, 2011, at 7:12 PM

lol news... You CLAIM to know the difference between an edited video and one that is not... so when Maddow used ONLY nine words of a video clip and the politifact site used the entire statements in CONTEXT from Maddow's OWN site, again, tell me which one is edited? Sorry but you lose big time mate

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Feb 27, 2011, at 7:07 PM

http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/...

Interesting read about the abuse of power by Obama in regards to Wis. situation...

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Feb 27, 2011, at 7:06 PM

Social Security Cannot -- And Should Not -- Be Saved

Now why does the government go to the trouble to take money from us when we are young promising to give it back to us when we are older with interest? We shouldn't have believed it in the 30's and we definitely shouldn't believe it now.

http://www.capitalismmagazine.com/politi...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Feb 27, 2011, at 7:02 PM

Civil Discourse For Some

"Liberalism and socialism do not, and by their nature cannot, speak the language of reason, logic, and factual discourse because by definition this ideology is committed to the use of force -- not persuasion."

"Lack of civility comes first and foremost from a lack of commitment to reason."

http://www.capitalismmagazine.com/politi...

This explains why someone would even suggest to remove the wealth from the top 10% and give them a stipend? Wow that is really persuading them to change. "Prison or loss of wealth" in America. Amazing to me someone even thinks that way.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Feb 27, 2011, at 6:51 PM

Slater

I am with ya mate...

...but we Australians do get to keep our Queen anyway right?

We kinda like her.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Feb 27, 2011, at 4:24 PM

mrxray

Yeah like I would trust a conservative opinion site lol lol lol...those boys and girls don't exactly have a reputation for being accurate or truthful.

Nice try but no cigar mate.

I know the difference between an edited clip and an unedited clip.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Feb 27, 2011, at 4:23 PM

OKR, you beat me to it, but here's my affirmation regarding your thoughts about PBS and NPR. The rest of the news sources are pure crap, as MrXray stated.

If we believe that a conspiracy is being waged by the haves against the rest of us, then THEY better smarten up before THEY find us have nots beating on their doors. Personally, I believe it's the way of humankind, from the beginning, and it's up to all of those who tire of being constantly trampled to rise up and put THEM back in their place.

The Monarchy of the UK is a microcosmic example (albeit mostly peaceful) of the age-old world order. Why not remove the top 10% in America's economic strata from direct control and put them on a stipend? (Offer a choice of prison - loss of all wealth - or else. Similar choice to politicians.)

Jo said it right a few months back when he mentioned mass demonstrations and veiled threats of insurraction as the only way to get proper attention. As long as THEY believe we're only capable of idle threats, THEY'LL keep on winning.

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Feb 27, 2011, at 12:51 PM

So X, do you go along with the Republican plan to unfund PBS, and NPR? Neither Soros, nor the Kochs own them, they are as close as it gets to unbiased. Admittedly could be better, but they are the brst we have, or would you also argue that isn't true.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Feb 27, 2011, at 12:15 AM

Slater... BUT, I also hold the main stream media's feet to the fire as well. They are to intermingled with the government, especially the left, funded by the left and influenced by the left and even owners of the news outlets are getting sweetheard deals with the Government but it is not being reported because they are bought and paid for by the Democrats and George Soros.... Fox News... well at least you know what they are all about and there is no real attempt at hiding their funding nor their right leaning bias. Can you say the same for the left leaning and more main stream media outlets? They do everything they can to hide their bias except it is obvious to people who are not blinded by their left leaning biasedness.

Until we have a FREE press and not a bought and paid for press, a open and transparent political system will never occur... we have too much instananeous media coverage nowadays.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Feb 26, 2011, at 10:00 PM

Come on News... go to Politifact site and listen to the REAL AND ENTIRE comment she said, not that 9 word blurb she edited out to make herself look good... try again

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Feb 26, 2011, at 9:52 PM

MrXray,

Not all people of the leftist persuasion believe they're better than everyone. As you well know, that kind of person can be found in all quarters.

I'm disappointed by your apparent insincerity when you claim to be disgusted by party politics in general but only bash the democrats.

They're all in it together and in cahoots with big business, and until the public wakes up and takes action to change that, nothing good will ever happen.

Some people (I won't mention screen names) refuse to acknowledge historical events, but, for all of those who believe the current republican "initiative" will result in any substantive changes, I'm suggesting they refrain from holding their collective breath. Of course, the same can be said of the democrats. Talk is cheap, and Washington is full of hot air and empty rhetoric (plus a gaggle of crooks-new ones, old ones).

If prolonged economic hardship is a galvanizing force that propels revolt, how soon will we be witnessing open rebellion in America?

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Feb 26, 2011, at 8:45 AM

mrxray

I can see and hear what she says when she replays the video.

What you are claiming is that she said the opposite of what she really said and the fact is in the video of her when she said it...its not like its locked away in some vault -- and she replays it several times.

Just because you refuse to recognize the fact which is apparent in the video does not mean everyone else here won't watch the video for themselves and see for themselves exactly what she says and then compare it to what you claime.

The proof is in the tasting mate -- and all your denials won't change the facts and the facts are in the video for all to see.

http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/0...

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Feb 26, 2011, at 5:00 AM

Hey news... dont feel bad... it happens when you get your "facts" from someone who is trying to claim they did not say something that they really did, or that they did not mislead the viewers of her show when she clearly did...

better luck next time mate

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Feb 26, 2011, at 4:21 AM

Uhhh News... dang my lying ears...

Ohhh Psych.... I am not admitting to being wrong.. only that YOU were misled by your bias to believe that Rachel Maddow, in her response to Politifacts of stating that Maddow lied or mis represented the Wis. debt, did not edit severely her original quote(s) regarding this debt. Politifact has an article about this situation... AND they post the ENTIRE statement(s) from Maddow's show where she made these statements and she opens the show and says there is no budget crisis or deficit....instead of the short nine word edited version of her original show that she sadly attempts to prove she never said what she said. LOL

Here is the exact quote, but still only a PORTION of the text from the orginal show.

"RACHEL MADDOW, HOST: Good evening, Lawrence. Thanks very much for that.

And thanks to you at home for staying with us for the next hour.

I'm here to report that there is nothing wrong in the state of Wisconsin. Wisconsin is fine. Wisconsin is great, actually. Despite what you may have heard about Wisconsin's finances, Wisconsin is on track to have a budget surplus this year.

I am not kidding. I'm quoting their own version of the Congressional Budget Office, the state's own nonpartisan "assess the state's finances" agency. That agency said the month that the new Republican governor of Wisconsin was sworn in, last month, that the state was on track to have a $120 million budget surplus this year."

FURTHER the grapic was shown that showed that there was a budget surplus in Wisconsin...

Quote from a letter from politifact to Maddow's producer,

"To emphasize the point, you showed graphics on the screen that excerpted the report that supposedly showed the surplus. Any viewer who saw the segment clearly came away with the impression that Wisconsin had a surplus. So it was fair for us to check the claim. Indeed, I think the overwhelming majority of viewers came away with the surprising conclusion that there was a surplus."

Even FURTHER: Maddow blogged the following after this original show.

Beyond that, it appears the editorial in question is a source for your own reporting. On the Rachel Maddow blog in a post dated 9:57 a.m. Friday, Feb. 18 -- the morning after the segment aired -- the same editorial is cited. Here is the excerpt from the blog:

He (Walker) says it's because there's a budget crisis going on, but as we reported on the show last night, the "repair" he's calling for would fix the giant dent he made himself."

Anyway, read the Politifact article and the corresponence between Politifact and Rachel Maddow's producer it is interesting and actually show

So, by manipulating information about the debt and adding the 140 million of tax breaks to those evil businesses who only make slaves of people and only want them to have 2 dollar a day wages and horrible working environments, she did state that there was no budget deficit, only tax

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Feb 26, 2011, at 4:19 AM

RR3... so my point is why would you expect this situation to be any different.... to the leftist on here they cannot see anything that their own side is doing as wrong... it is justified because they think, in their own twisted logic, that they are better than other people and when they yell and shout and strike out with violence it is justified because they "know what is better" for the rest of us and when us uneducated, red neck, racists step out of line and "dare" to disagree with them, the have every right in the world to "whip" us back into our places.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Feb 26, 2011, at 3:23 AM

RR3... it is funny that so many on here chimed in with the lame stream media and the Sheriff of Pima county when they all blamed Palin for the Arizona shooting and bashed paling for her "crosshairs" when the Democrat leadership committee also had targets but nothing was said about that... they cannot EVER see past the ends of their collective noses to see past that log in their own eyes but they sure like to attempt to take the fleck out of other people's eyes...

I find it amusing that so many people cannot see that they have NOTHING to stand on, no real beliefs or ideals that other people will respect when they behave in this manner. IF they actually had beliefs that they truly believed in then they would have no need to do things like call people racist when they disagree with them or to call them radical right wingers, or evil white men, or vilify rich people and big corporations in a generalization or stereotype. Instead they could use logic and a respectable and well stated opinion that people might not agree with but would respect because it was well thought out and because they could discuss and debate with well thought out conversations that did not resort to heated exchanges and quickly resorting to name calling.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Feb 26, 2011, at 3:21 AM

Uh mrxray,

Dang my lying ears and eyes for seeing her replay the original video portion of her statement -- the statment your source got completely wrong -- where she says the opposite of what you claimed.

You were wrong and the video proves it beyond any doubt mate.

That happens alot -- getting things completely the opposite of the facts -- especially when you are relying on a conservative opinion piece. Try going to the original source first. It can save you a lot of time and embarrassment.

http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/0...

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Feb 26, 2011, at 3:17 AM

as some of you are quick to point out... show me a source (Other than Rachel Maddow saying something) that shows information that states that the State of Wisconsin somehow has a budget surplus... LOL

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Feb 26, 2011, at 3:02 AM

Not sure how you can say that Rachel Madcow did not lie when the actual budget information from the state of Wisconsin shows their budget problem AND the amount did not include a portion of 'potential' debt that might be incurred after a debt court rules on about 200 million dollars tha the state might owe.

"The confusion, it appears, stems from a section in Lang's memo that -- read on its own -- does project a $121 million surplus in the state's general fund as of June 30, 2011.

But the remainder of the routine memo -- consider it the fine print -- outlines $258 million in unpaid bills or expected shortfalls in programs such as Medicaid services for the needy ($174 million alone), the public defender's office and corrections. Additionally, the state owes Minnesota $58.7 million under a discontinued tax reciprocity deal.

The result, by our math and Lang's, is the $137 million shortfall."

"It would be closer to the $340 million figure if the figure included the $200 million owed to the state's patient compensation fund, a debt courts have declared resulted from an illegal raid on the fund under former Gov. Jim Doyle.

A court ruling is pending in that matter, so the money might not have to be transferred until next budget year."

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Feb 26, 2011, at 3:01 AM

lol Over the top? explain or be quiet... LOL

as for the planting of people by Gov. Walker... hey they admitted they discussed and DECIDED AGAINST it... unlike the whole liberal lefts who OVER AND OVER do exactly that, place plants, hire homeless and poor to picket and protest things that they have no clue about.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Feb 26, 2011, at 2:57 AM

X-ray,

Your statement about Rachel Maddow and the alleged statement you claim she made turned out to be factually incorrect and in fact what you claimed is the opposite of the facts.

Rachel Maddow has the video of what she said.

You are wrong...again.

Rachel Maddow Responds:

http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/0...

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Feb 26, 2011, at 2:23 AM

Yea Shepard Smith will probably have to look for a new job by actually telling Fox News viewers the truth.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Fri, Feb 25, 2011, at 7:41 PM

Give credit when credit is due. Fox News via Shepard Smith gets it right about Wisconsin. http://www.mediaite.com/tv/shep-smith-pr...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Feb 24, 2011, at 11:40 PM

Apparently the only people that may start trouble in Wisconsin are the Republican Walker Gang. Borrowing tactics from Karl Rove they are considering planting trouble makers in the crowds to give the crowds a bad image. http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/g...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Feb 24, 2011, at 11:13 PM

You know the silence is deafening from the left on this blog regarding the protest in Wisconsin. Not a word from them about the hatred and the rhetorical language being used. What if this was a Tea Party protest? I mean remember what was said about Tuscon and it wasn't even a protest. It's like they are in a hypnagogic state.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Feb 24, 2011, at 6:48 PM

"Every once and a while you have to get out on the streets and get a little bloody" Congressman Capuano

That happened in Tuscon didn't it?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 6:36 PM

Gotta say X in my opinion you sometimes go over the top. LOL, LOL

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 1:28 PM

lol Gal66.... I know... the whole comment about wanting people to get blood on their hands WAS the context...

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 12:32 PM

Now mrxray come on you know he was taken out of context.........

-- Posted by Gal66 on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 11:16 AM

So... THIS is the new Democrat example of civility? WHERE in the world are the lame stream media talking heads... this guy is calling for BLOOD in response to the Wis. budget issue....

Between the Dems running like girls so they can hide from debate and voting on bills and the Dems calling for Union protesters to get bloody... wow..

But then if you remember, Obama sent his SEIU Union thugs to St Louis to beat up and intimidate anyone who opposed him during his campaign....

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-r...

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 10:18 AM

I think both! The parents need to support the good teachers when their child needs help or discipline, instead of the attitude that the child does no wrong and it is the teacher that is bad. Also when your child has a poor teacher then proper channels should be followed to correct it.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 9:33 AM

Are Teachers failing or Parents?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 9:24 AM

If you failed as miserably in your job as some of our public school teachers would you be fired? Or would you ask for lifetime pension and health insurance paid by someone else?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 8:06 AM

Straight Into Darkness

A good read about the crisis triggered by the philosophical, moral and ethical failures of modern American Liberalism.

http://www.redstate.com/blog/2011/02/22/...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 7:14 AM

Cheese does that excuse the Dems from staying and doing their job?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 7:04 AM

rr,

They have agreed with the cuts, but the workers dont wont to give up their bargaining rights. This isnt about the budget anymore unless your ask the Wis. Republicans because now they are getting worried about the response from voters so they decide to be untruthful

-- Posted by cheesehead on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 6:13 AM

Funny how the Dems in Wisconsin are supporting the public sector unions and not representing the very people that voted for them. When it comes time to take care of the fiscal hole they dug they cut and run.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 5:46 AM

RR3...

The Department of Ed put out hat the state of Wis. is a FAILURE and only has one third of its 8th graders with the ability to pass reading with proficient... 2/3 are below proficienct... even as the Wis schools spend more money per kid... including 670 MILLION in federal tax dollar subsidies.

Rachel, the LIAR, Maddow... Mad as in crazy... lied in a story where she claimed that Wis. did not have a budget short fall but really had a surplus... Man she is a liar, a liar... where is the rest of the media's outrage that a main stream NEWS HOST would lie publically and blatantly in a manufactured story with absolutely not basis except for her biased lefitst leaning Union support?

http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/stat...

Teachers that are speaking out in Wis. about how horribly hard it would be on them if they had the pay cut in the form of increased retirment and health care fees are severely distorting reality and their salaries and the true costs of their Union bargained benefits packages are being exposed as they speak out publically... interesting reading about the REAL costs of Unions to the teaching industry... at the bottom of this article there is a statement that shows what the average Wis. worker makes... something in the 30K per year wage...The teachers benefits packages are worth 20-30K not including salaries.. LOL what exactly are the teachers whining about?

http://dailycaller.com/2011/02/21/wiscon...

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Feb 22, 2011, at 11:57 PM

Miss Marples.. if you LOVE Chicago political family mafia thuggery, then you can celebrate Rahm, the F bomb, E's election in the CORRUPT chicago political arena... LOL

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Feb 22, 2011, at 11:43 PM

Hey News... Thanks for the laugh.. your sad attempt to belittle a guy for bowing out of the wrestling attempt and twist his religious belief into somehow removing a right from some other person is typical but hilarious.

For your logic to hold up, we would have to believe that something that is a RIGHT is something that is solely dependent on someone else providing for you. In this wrestling case, you claim that because the boy had a religious belief that prevented him from wrestling a girl somehow denied the girl a right...

A sporting event is a RIGHT? come on now. The boy quit the tournament and the girl got to wrestle someone else and was allowed the PRIVILEDGE to participate in a sporting event.... there is no RIGHT, nor prevention of some right anywhere in this scenario. LOL I bet you would be to scared to wrestle a girl too.

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Feb 22, 2011, at 11:42 PM

Gotta love it - Rahm Emanual is the new mayor of Chicago!

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Tue, Feb 22, 2011, at 8:42 PM

cheesehead

There are many misconceptions as to what constitutes a union.

However, a union is really a very simple thing. It is the workers in a particular workplace bargaining their pay and benefits with their employer as one unit.

The entire process is completely democratic. The workers first vote to decide if the want to form a union. If that passes the workers vote by a majority, the next step is deciding whether to go with the assistance of an already existing Union -- such as the Teamsters or some other union that is affiliated with the trade of the workers at that workplace. Again the workers vote to decide what union they wish to be a part of. If that passes with a majority vote, the workers at that plant are now a union.

So anytime a politician makes anti-union statements he or she is really attacking American workers.

Attacking American Workers -- is that what we want in our leaders?

I think not.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Feb 22, 2011, at 7:31 PM

news,

Well at least we know now not to believe those Rasmussen polls! Its pretty obvious that wasnt the proper questioning to use unless you want to affect to responses given. I do think that now that teachers, firefighter, and police are the new faces of organized labor it will definately change the outlook of unions.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Feb 22, 2011, at 7:07 PM

"NYT calls out Rasmussen for conservative bias in Wisconsin poll"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/02/22/ny...

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com...

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Feb 22, 2011, at 5:46 PM

"Indiana Democrats flee state to protest anti-union bill"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/02/22/in...

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Feb 22, 2011, at 5:40 PM

"Montanans protest GOP assault on environmental and labor programs"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/02/22/mo...

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Feb 22, 2011, at 5:38 PM

This leaked cable from wikileaks show that in 2008 U.S. threatened China over their anti satelite and missle program.

http://wsws.org/articles/2011/feb2011/us...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Feb 22, 2011, at 3:55 PM

News,

I know you are finished commenting on the subject, but I want to make sure you understand something about me that you apparently were mistaken about. You said:

"What you are missing and where you fail in your analogy is this:

If littlebubba quits because he does not want to take orders from a woman, he has chosen to lose something.

But when Bigbubba denies a woman equal opportunity, it is she who has been denied something."

What you seemed to have missed from my post is this:

"If the wrestler who forfeited grew up to be like BigBossBubba, he would need the book thrown at him for discrimination."

I just don't think the two situations are related, and I didn't want anyone to think I was in favor of the type of discrimination you described.

-- Posted by Philemon on Tue, Feb 22, 2011, at 7:25 AM

Obamacare waivers over 900 and counting. Whole states are being waived particularly swing states, you know we have an election coming up. The unions are getting a waiver and certain corporations are involved. This is like a bus speeding down a mountain everybody is wanting off. Who will be left to pay for it? That's right you and me!!! and all working class people in this country.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Feb 22, 2011, at 6:05 AM

The Wisconsin Union Battle is About America's Future Generations

"six-figure salaried head of the Wisconsin teachers' union" (WEAC)

I wonder if they are one of the evil rich or do they get a pass?

http://www.redstate.com/laborunionreport...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Feb 22, 2011, at 5:59 AM

"Embarrassed Republicans Admit They've Been Thinking Of Eisenhower Whole Time They've Been Praising Reagan"

http://www.theonion.com/articles/embarra...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Feb 22, 2011, at 12:07 AM

Chris Dodd about to become Hollywood's chief lobbyist, after saying he would not become a lobbyist after leaving congress.

He gets my nomination as hypocrite of the day if the story is true. http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/20...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Feb 21, 2011, at 11:29 PM

That's just it News, I don't presume to know why he quit. All I know is whatever the reason it was his decision. You are certainly making a lot of assumptions about the actual details leading up to his decision. I'll make an assumption and say that you weren't there. Let's say that you are right on all counts and when the situation came about he just called an audible. He took his lumps on the national stage not to mention he forfieted a match in a sport that he obviously worked very hard at. It was his decision to make and he made it. He shouldn't need to answer to you or I because like it or not, this was a private matter. Let it go.....mate.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Feb 21, 2011, at 10:15 PM

oh and please don't even get me started about my the women in my wifes family...lol...they are the very definition of the word "tough" lol...

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Feb 21, 2011, at 10:05 PM

I don't think I want to comment on this subject anymore mates.

It makes me too sad. When I see a woman discriminated against, I can't help but think of people close to me who deserve their right to equality.

To my Grandmother, who fought as head of the Union at the old Shirt Factory back in the 1930s -- literally -- to establish the right of workers in Marshall and Missouri to collective bargaining.

and my Mom, who had the courage and stamina to bring 6 healthy children into this World and who stood Proudly in our front yard when she was 34 and announced to the World (well mostly the neighborhood lol) that she was mad as hell and not going to take it anymore!" She announced her independence that day and never tolerated anyone discriminating against her on the basis of her sex.

and my 4 sisters who could out-think any man in this forum...including me. Beauty and brains, none of them ever tolerated being treated as 2nd class citizens for even one second. Many tried to discriminate against them and many found out the hard way not to cross those very capable ladies.

and to all the women of the World with out whom none of us would be here. They deserve to be respected. They deserve to have their right to equality and equal opportunity respected.

and that is all I will say on this matter now. I will give it a rest folks...to those who read my comments on this, thank you for at least reading them and considering the position I am advocating -- even if you don't agree -- thanks!

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Feb 21, 2011, at 10:02 PM

What the f

I think he knew that she was wrestling long before that match.

If he wanted to quit wrestling because he didn't like the rules, he sure had the opportunity long before he got to that match.

Isn't that how it works in sports? Don't we volunteer to abide by the rules of the sports accreditor from the start? I bet either he signed or his parents signed an agreement to abide by the rules of the accrediting sponser of that event. I bet the accreditor has that document. I bet he and his parents knew long before-hand that the matches would be gender neutral. In fact, I bet he knew well in advance that he was likely to face her in the championship. If he quit for his ideals as you seem to think, why did he sign on in the first place? I mean if the Communist Party does not share your ideals, would you run down and sign up with them - not likely. If he felt so strongly that he should not wrestle women -- for whatever reason -- and he felt it to be morally wrong to compete against women, why did he run down and sign right up with an organization he and/or his parents knew had eliminated gender as a qualification for the atheletes?

He knew the rules and he volunteered to abide by those rules.

I believe I already pointed out that indeed he could not be forced to wrestle and certainly has the right to choose a loss by default instead.

But in doing so he violated the spirit of the rules, his ethics as an athelete, and worst of all, he openly and blatently discriminated against his opponent due entirely to her genitalia and denied her the opportunity to prove that she was the better athelete or a good loser, if she should happen to lose. If the challenger had been a male, he would have wrestled. So there can be no other reason than that one difference -- which the rules of the sponsor state have no bearing on the qualification of the athelete.

He knew that when he signed on.

But this incident probably in and of itself is really nothing to write home about...if ya know what I mean. Worse things have happened, but as I pointed out, my complaint is the irresponsible behavior of the editor of this publication in holding that young man up as some kind of shining example when in fact what that young man did is wrong at every level.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Feb 21, 2011, at 9:43 PM

WTF I agree with you because I believe there is a reason boys are boys and girls are girls. You hit the nail on the head.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Feb 21, 2011, at 9:36 PM

Oops, I meant lose "sight" not lose site.

With all the talk of gender discrimination, couldn't the same be said if the young man was "forced" to wrestle a girl? Who would then be suffering discrimnation? That's why we have to let people make their own personal decisions in matters such as these and let the chips fall where they may.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Feb 21, 2011, at 9:01 PM

Maybe everyone is losing site of that fact that in as much as the young girl had the right to be there, this young man had a right to choose not not to participate. The reasons for this could be numerous and complicated but at the end of the day it's really none of our business. You don't have to like it but in a free country sometimes you have to put up with things you don't agree with. Gays should have the right to marry and this guy had the right not to participate.

News, you seem to want to cruxify this kid based on what you assume his motives are. So again I would have to say maybe we should dial it down a notch.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Feb 21, 2011, at 8:11 PM

Smokin' Cheetah

In our secular Nation and our society, faith and belief is never a legal or moral justification for an action that results in gender discrimination as it relates to public, non-religious matters. Yes the Churches have some leeway to hire the Preachers they want and can discriminate on religious grounds in that forum and within their oranization, provided such is not a threat to the well being of children or a threat to the physical well being of the masses -- but not in the work place or any other public forum.

This young adult, an adolescent very close to the age of age of majority, made a decision on whether or not to continue the competition based entirely on the fact that his worthy opponent was a female.

If it had been a man, he clearly would have wrestled. So the only difference is her gender.

As I have pointed out several times now, there is no disagreement that he has the right to his faith and heck he even has the right to openly say and believe that women are 2nd class citizens and should be kept, by men, barefoot and pregnant if he so chooses. However, his rights end when they cross the line and translate into an action or actions that directly deny her equal opportunity which is her right.

He can believe as he wishes -- no matter how wrong he is -- but when his belief manifests itself into denying her right to equal opportunity, his right to believe has become a potentialy unlawful and/or immoral behavior -- an action that discriminates against his opponent for no other reason than the mere fact that she happens to not have the same gentilia as him.

And once again, let's not forget that my complaint is not what the adolecent did, that in and of itself is a minor thing to me -- after all she won the bout by default and took the title -- and rightly so.

My complaint is that a respected newspaper editor and public figure such as Eric would have the audacity to hold that adolecent up as a golden example of something good when in fact what he did was bad...no matter how much sugar you try to coat it with.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Feb 21, 2011, at 7:52 PM

smokin cheetah,

What faith doesnt allow boys to wrestle with girls? I have had a Religion class, but never heard of this one. This boys coach wasnt aware of this boys religious views either until this episode. I think this faith business is quite funny!

-- Posted by cheesehead on Mon, Feb 21, 2011, at 7:24 PM

news across: I reviewed my original comment. Nothing I said could be construed as supporting gender discrimination. In fact, nothing I said indicates my views on gender politics. As several others in this conversation have understood, I referred to the *manner* in which two young people were able to handle a potentially contentious situation. They were courteous and respectful even though they no doubt disagreed with each other.

My admiration for them both remains unshaken by your voluminous response.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Mon, Feb 21, 2011, at 6:09 PM

What the f,

With all do respect and high esteem for your opinions, I must disagree with your conclusions.

If we leave it alone, will he ever learn that her right to be treated as a full equal citizen, with no regard at all to her gender, is absolute since she was born with that human right and it cannot be taken away from her by anyone...including him and his Father's entire congregation?

Will he learn that her gender has no bearing what-so-ever within a secular, public forum?

If no-one corrects him or says anything to him to let him know that her gender means nothing in terms of a sporting competition in which she had already proved her ability to compete and had worked hard and earned the right to compete with him, how will he learn that denying her equal opportunity is wrong?

I gotta tell ya mate, I have heard the "I am not a chavanist I am just being chivalrous" argument before and repeated over and over for a long time...it didn't hold water the first time I heard male chavanists attempt to use it back in the '60s and it doesn't hold water now.

We as responsible adults living in a secular Nation -- a Nation established by a Constitution which guarantees specific human rights in the both the public and private sectors -- have a collective responsibility to correct kids when they behave in ways contrary to the intent of the Founders of our Nation and the long, well established recognition of the rights of all People, often paid for in blood, over the span of Western history. Our society has long held equality of the sexes as absolute (see the 14th Ammendment of the U.S. Constitution and the 1964 Civil Rights Act, as well as other legislated guarantees of gender neutrality in our society at both the federal and state levels for more on this).

In fact, shouldn't we be teaching him that virtually every Western, industrialized Nation guarantees gender neurtrality in the public sector? Shouldn't we tell him that its not surprising that we are also signers to the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights? Shouldn't we be teaching him that its also not surprising that Article 1 of the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights establishes full equality of all human beings everywhere? Article 1 States,

"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood."

That is a good beginning.

and The Declaration goes even further when in Article 2 where is states,

"Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty."

And we have an obligation to make sure all American kids grow up understanding that no matter what their religious or moral value system -- be it positive or negative -- it has absolutely no bearing when it reaches the point where it denies another person, in a public forum, her right to equal opportunity.

He has the right to believe she is a 2nd class citizen because of her gender, but he must also be taught that when his belief manifests itself in the form of denying a woman her right to equal opportunity then he has crossed a line that is unacceptable both morally and legally by our secular society.

By not correcting that youngster, we have collectively failed him and possibly have doomed him to a rather uncomfortable position in his secular life.

Not having been taught that its wrong to deny a person fair opportunity to compete in sports based upon their gender, he has also not been taught that its wrong to denay a person fair opportunity, based upon their gender, in every other aspect of life as well.

To me, considering the long and incredible struggle women have made in order to have their right to equal opportunity respected, if we allow such blatant and disrepectful denials of equality as this kid's behavior to go unchecked then we have just taken one step forward...and two steps back.

I am not saying he did not have the right to not participate in public sports. Certainly he has that right. I am not saying he did not have the right to forfeit the match. He had that right. But I am saying he did it for the wrong reasons -- and he should never have been held up as a shining example of something good for doing something for so many bad reasons by a respected member of the Marshall Community. Such behavior on the part of a public figure is irresponsible and reprehensible.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Feb 21, 2011, at 5:47 PM

Just wondering..?? the empty lot where Marshall Lumber used to be belongs to who?? I thought we were not going to have a parking lot there because of it being an "eye sore". Seemed like I have been seeing some trucks parked close to this lot, maybe it is in another lot, but still in the same general area. I was just wondering????

-- Posted by 1OFTHEGALS on Mon, Feb 21, 2011, at 4:00 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
The lot is owned by ConAgra. I believe there was an agreement (not sure if it was formal) that the lots would not be used as permanent truck parking lots. They were used extensively for building material and equipment during ConAgra's expansion project. There was some mention that the company would do some landscaping at some point to spruce up the area. We'll ask for more details.

I think we all may have lost sight of something in regards to the highschool wrestling situation.

I've heard alot of high brow theories being thrown around so I'll offer my take on it.

These are kids. There are alot of things going on with kids at that age. Self-esteem issues and puberty among some of the most noted. Maybe this young man just wasn't comfortable with physical contact with a girl no matter what the setting.

This young man was put into an extremely uncomfortable position and he made a decision that worked for him. Losing to a girl is but one of the embarassments this young man could have suffered, if you know what I mean. Guys know what I mean. Can you image that embarassment in public wearing only a wrestling singlet?

I think someone who calls him a gender bigot may have forgot what it was like at that age. To all the guys here. Do you really know what you would have done in that situation? I know I don't. Bring it down a notch and leave the kid alone.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Feb 21, 2011, at 3:52 PM

Philemon

What you are missing and where you fail in your analogy is this:

If littlebubba quits because he does not want to take orders from a woman, he has chosen to lose something.

But when Bigbubba denies a woman equal opportunity, it is she who has been denied something.

when it comes to our rights it works like this:

My right to swing my fist exists only to the point where it reaches my neighbors nose.

He has the right to his faith and to practice that faith until it reaches the point where it infringes upon her right to equal opportunity -- which he denied her.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Feb 21, 2011, at 3:45 PM

The Empress

When even one of our sisters is denied equal opportunity -- denied a "fair-go" as we Australians like to say -- then at that moment we are all women.

When even one of our Arfrican-American brothers and sisters is denied equal opportunity then at that moment we are all African-Americans.

When even one of our Moslem brothers or sisters is denied equal opportunity then at that moment we are all Moslems.

Justice means speaking up loudly whenever a human being is treated as a second-class citizen. Justice means righting the wrong done to our sister. Justice means not standing by while our sister is denied her basic human rights and her dignity is stolen by those who would relegate her to 2nd class citizenship.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Feb 21, 2011, at 3:40 PM

My analogy from the girls side:

Now I have to hire a new worker, one that won't be so hard to deal with. Sure am glad he quit since it would have a whole pile of sexist trouble if I fired him.

-- Posted by Philemon on Mon, Feb 21, 2011, at 3:31 PM

Not so Phil. Your analogy gave it from the boy's side. News' analogy gave it from the girl's side. Neither is off the mark.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Feb 21, 2011, at 2:36 PM

Great defense of women's rights News, but your analogy is just a bit off the mark for this particular circumstance. If the wrestler who forfeited grew up to be like BigBossBubba, he would need the book thrown at him for discrimination. A closer analogy to the situation would be if he were LittleWorkerBubba, who quit his job when a woman was place in charge of him. He wouldn't be discriminating then, he would just be hurting himself, just like when he forfeited.

-- Posted by Philemon on Mon, Feb 21, 2011, at 1:23 PM

Imagine if you will a tire factory that produces large tires for farm equipment such as combines and tractors and the following senerio occurs:

Worker Jane Doe: (speaking to the plant manager)

"Hi boss how are you? I was wondering if you could spare a few minutes for me so I can ask you something."

Big Bossman Bubba: "Sure thing Jane, I always have time for my employees...how can I help you out."

Worker Jane Doe: "I see that there is a management position open in the warehouse as Team Leader and I have applied for the position 3 times now and still I haven't heard anything or even been able to discuss it with you."

Big Bossman Bubba: "Oh yes we are still interviewing applicants and I will get back with you on that when we make a decision."

Worker Jane Doe: "Well Boss here is the thing. I have been working in the warehouse for 10 years now. I am proficient in every aspect of warehousing including high-lift forklift operation, cherrypicker operation, and my production rate, doing the same work, is far higher than most of the guys in the warehouse. I would also like to point out that I have an excellent attendance record with not one time coming to work late, and I have not missed a single day of work in 3 years for any reason. Also, I have been attending night school for 2 years and just recently graduated with an Associates Degree in Mangement, and I graduate with a B+ GPA. I would be happy to have them send you my transcripts at my own expense any time you want to see them to verify my education and the new skills I learned.

Frankly sir, this position has been open for 3 months now and I feel I am well qualified for the position. Do you or do you not intend to take my application seriously for this position?"

Bigboss Bubba: "Yes Jane you are an exemplary employee, and one of our best workers. We are real happy to have you as part of the team. However its a complicated matter. Frankly, that position that requires a man. Please don't misunderstand me. I am not saying you are not a great worker and yes if you were a man I probably would have already given the position to you. But being a woman disqualifies you. As you know, the position you applied for requires a lot of heavy lifting and..."

Worker Jane Doe: (interupting Big Bossman Bubba) "Uh sir...I work in that warehouse everyday and I lift the same things the guys do. In fact, I have arm wrestled a couple of them during my lunch break...and lol...beat them hands down with no problem...quick...wham bam slam, I win. Sure there might be a couple of the guys who are a little stronger than me, but I sure am not the weakest person in there either."

Big Bossman Bubba: "Well hehehehe...that is interesting...but please try to understand. I was homeschooled by my Mother and Father. Dad is a Preacher at our non-denominational Temple to Zeus -- the 'Free-Will, Zeusist Bible Believin', Oracle of Olympus Temple" over on Oxford Avenue. Its our belief that it is a mortal sin for a woman to do men's work. I was taught, based upon the Bible, that its never ok, under any circumstances, to ask or allow a woman to do a man's job. I am sorry, but I have my values and beliefs and its simply unfair and just plain wrong of anyone to ask me to put aside my beliefs and values for you or anyone else. Its nothing personal Jane, I have great love and respect for women. Heck my Mom is a woman.

Jane believe me, this hurts me far more than it does you. However, I must stick with my beliefs and I cannot give you that promotion. The job involves having to give orders to the men who would be working under your supervision and most men just would not take you seriously in that position. Jane most men in our society would never accept orders from a woman -- its just not the manly thing to do and no gentleman would ever want his little lady in an embarrassing position like that. So you see Jane, I am just doing the right thing for our company and I am sticking to my traditional values, and frankly Jane. I am doing what's best for you. The answer is no."

Worker Jane Doe: "Oh ok...well thank you Boss for at least listening to me."

Big Bossman Bubba: "No problem at all Jane. I hope you know we really value you here at the Tire Company, and I want you to know I really respect your applying for the position but of course it would violate my religious beliefs to give you the job.

Have a good day Jane, I need to get back to something important now. Thanks again Jane!"

Do any of you folks out there really think that would be a just thing for an employer to do?

What happens when the gender biggot male wrestler extends his "beliefs" to the workplace someday...maybe as a human resources manager...do you really think he will take a different approach then?

I believe discrimination is a violation of the Human Rights and dignity of the victim. Its wrong. It is not justified by civility. It is not justified by religion. Its not justified by tradition. It is not justified...ever.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Feb 20, 2011, at 7:23 PM

Thanks OKR.

I knew you heart could only let you do the right thing. You are too compassionate to side with discrimination.

I feel a lot better now knowing that other Americans who also believe in freedom, liberty, and equality are still out there...though quiet sometimes lol.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Feb 20, 2011, at 5:13 PM

LOL, a capitalist Jesus. I think capitalism seems to benefit the rich and corporations and I think Jesus would much rather help the sick and the poor!

Just because many conservatives choose the pervert Christianity for political gains doesnt mean Jesus shares their beliefs. I think Jesus was for social justice.

Here is a clip of what a capitalist Jesus would sound like though!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHq_wkKzI...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Sun, Feb 20, 2011, at 1:31 PM

Gadzooks X-ray! Capitalist Jesus?

Can you also flesh out Libertarian Jesus? How about Corporatist Jesus?

You have opened a new window here. If you have the time I would also like your take on the capitalistic directives in the ten commandments.

Can't wait.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Feb 20, 2011, at 12:54 PM

xray,

Why didn't Bush win in Afgahnistan? Besides? What is winning in Afghanistan? A Wal-Mart in every village? This isn't a football game with a definative score. How in the hell do you "win" something like that? Kill'em all?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Feb 20, 2011, at 6:11 AM

An addendum: I said "It is just another example that on the discrimination front, that we are much farther along the road in our consciousness as a society of racial discrimination, than of sexual discrimination."

I was referencing sports. I know that it is a mixed bag regarding other issues...but that is a subject for another day.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Feb 20, 2011, at 3:28 AM

Naw News, you are not standing alone. I had not entered the fray because you had ably stated your position, one with which I essentially agree. There are a few things that have not been covered by anyone, or if they were I missed them.

I am wondering whether the body that controls high school wrestling in Iowa has codified that body's reaction to a wrestler within their jurisdiction who refuses to wrestle a qualified, and scheduled opponent for any other reasons than illness, injury, or family emergency? Is the only penalty forfeiture of the match, and its bracketing consequences, for what ever reason a participant chooses to withdraw? For instance would the consequences remain the same if a participant withdrew because the scheduled opponent was of another race? If that were the case would the fact that the withdrawee based it on his religious belief that there should be no mingling of different races matter? If there is no penalty beyond forfeiture for that, one might be led to believe that there should be no further penalty in the instant case.

What jumps out from the comparison I just made, changing only one element, race for sex, is the automatic response, "that is wrong, that is discrimination, despite what ever their rules call for".

It is just another example that on the discrimination front, that we are much farther along the road in our consciousness as a society of racial discrimination, than of sexual discrimination.

So, I ask those that oppose your view News, (and mine), would you have complimented, and/or defended the boy's polite response to the situation, to wit, explaining that it is against his religious beliefs to physically grapple with someone of another race?

Would not your sympathies in that slightly altered scenario been solidly with the child of another race, and not at all with the child who refused to touch him because he was different?

Which child is harmed by it?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Feb 20, 2011, at 3:23 AM

Oklahoma Reader

Lol...I have actually had birds die around me when I sing...ok well maybe they didn't die but I am sure they wanted to after hearing me sing. I am not allowed by my wife to sing in the house or anywhere she is with me.

But seriously...

OKR...on that other thing...you know I am right. You know it OKR. and you know right is right no matter how uncomfortable it may be. I am standing alone in this one OKR. I know I have right on my side and so it makes it a bit easier, but I know others also agree with me...especially those sisters who's freedom and equality demands we all speak out when those rights to equality are clearly withheld from them. You know I am right OKR...please mate...

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Feb 20, 2011, at 1:47 AM

Thanks News, and you are welcome. I also listened to yours twice, as well as Nana's offering. However I didn't sing along with them like NanaDot. My dear wife was asleep, and no way in h*ll was I going to wake her up with the noise of the world's worst singer.

Unless alone in the middle of a forest I wouldn't attempt a note, excepting when in a group of singing people I do occasionally sneak sing. That is when one carefully keeps the voice at a decibel level no more than one fourth that of singers to the right and the left. A good sneak singer also occasionally has to drop down to mouthing the words to avoid offending companions, only voicing again at the beginning of a crescendo.

In what is becoming the distant past, there was one situation where I would beller, and howl at the top of my lungs, even now and then all the way from my diaphragm in a fair imitation of a banshee. That was when I was much younger, and drinking with my buds. The first few rounds, or shots, I stayed with my sneak singing, patiently waiting for what I knew would come, a level playing field. Then I would let her rip. Such joy it brought me, that uneven, but nevertheless actual blending of voices, at last including mine. At the least, it seemed that I could sing, and at that stage of the game I had no reason to believe that my friends' perception differed.

So that is why I did not sing along last night when I heard those wonderful old songs, about freedom, justice, and peace.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Feb 20, 2011, at 1:34 AM

Sorry Empress... Not ONE of Jesus' parables tell any COMMON MAN how to let the government how to provide all things for all men... IN fact Jesus tells you that men who take a gold piece from the master and ONLY buries it and has one gold piece to show for it in the end, the man who FAILS to work within capitalism is a failure. The dudes who INVESTED the coins given them from God and GREW them because of Capitalism were WORTHY of God

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Feb 20, 2011, at 1:14 AM

Just wanted to let you all know... My son just returned from Afghanistan. We have been with him and his two boys all weekend. It has been great.

After his year in country, he says that if it were not for liberal idiots like Obama and Pelosi and other Liberals that HATE Bush and HATE winning, we would have been winning this war back when McChrystal was trying to tell the arrogant Obama that we needed a whole bunch more troops.

Sorry but the 101st airborne actually KNOW how to fight a war and Obummer does not!

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Feb 20, 2011, at 1:11 AM

rr,

You are quick mate...lol lol lol.

That is one of things I like about you rr -- you can think on your feet.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Feb 20, 2011, at 12:21 AM

OKR

I watched and listened to everyone of those vids.

Fantastic!!! I loved it mate. I listened to them all...twice.

Thank you mate.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Feb 20, 2011, at 12:19 AM

Wisconsin Is a Battleground Against the Billionaire Kochs' Plan to Break Labor's Back

http://www.alternet.org/news/149965/wisc...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Sat, Feb 19, 2011, at 6:33 PM

GOP-Controlled House Passes Spending Cut Bill

Yes it was in US news also.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/02/...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Feb 19, 2011, at 3:30 PM

If anybody is interested in the top 4 victories given to corporate america by the Supreme Court here you go.

http://www.alternet.org/teaparty/149861/...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Sat, Feb 19, 2011, at 10:44 AM

I know your comment was not directed to me RationalThinker...I admire your cautious optimism. Wish I felt the same. I am concerned that you may have overestimated your numbers, including the number of rational thinkers yet to be born. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Feb 19, 2011, at 1:05 AM

I thought I might tote some music links similar those just put on speak out (the original) over here to politics where it maybe is even more appropriate. Then I am gonna kick back, remember the late sixties, and early seventies, and hope that maybe, just maybe that as we play the circle game we are hitting that point in the circle again.

Peace. Join me? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7d6ZwAp2... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjUA3RU4B... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lz_eJqQCC... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3t4g_1VoG...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxQuytT2t... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHrK6L91B...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwcKwGS7O...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yR2vGJSX0...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Feb 18, 2011, at 11:57 PM

As I've said many times organized religion is a business. Nothing more, nothing less.

In regards to War vs. Healthcare I've also noted that it seems as if we always have money for bullets and none for bedpans.

I always thought that the Healthcare Industry and Military both existed for the same reason. To protect us.

I wonder how people would feel if the Military on protected those who could afford it. Seems as if these days the only thing being protected are corporate profits. Alot of those profits are coming from the hijacking of both healthcare and the military.

We are bound by law to buy horribly overpriced American pharmecuticals while our military is used to run interference for the likes of Haliburton and KBR. These perpetrators live free and wealthy enjoying everything this coutry has to offer and then tell me it's illegal to smoke a joint. There is something profoundly wrong with this picture.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Feb 18, 2011, at 10:01 PM

Well said Empress. It's the same where I live. The First state of the United States to become a theocratic corporatocracy. We need a new state motto; First in the race to the bottom.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Feb 18, 2011, at 6:51 PM

Can someone please explain to me where the religious right is concerning the health and well being of our fellow man? Their silence is deafening.

It's 2011 and we continually allow our brothers and sisters to suffer at the hands of profit. Why are they not scremaing the loudest for help and reform in this area? This situation would make me sick if only I could afford it.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Feb 18, 2011, at 4:52 PM

Nanadot,

Even us that consider ourselves in the middle are begining to realize that most lawmakers on the right are selling the people out who need the most help. At the same time businesses like Koch industries are benefiting from these tactics.

Will the moderate Republicans PLEASE STAND UP against these corporate radicals!

-- Posted by Back in the day on Fri, Feb 18, 2011, at 1:42 PM

mrxray

Cutting entitlements eliminates Government service employees and reduces consumption by the recipients of the assistance. All economies turn on consumption. In addition, we are already in a deflationary period. Anything that reduces consumption during a deflationary period could very easily lead to complete economic collapse.

There are plenty of places we could cut the Federal Budget without ever cutting entitlements -- such as ending the illegal and immoral wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and recalling all our troops from around the World back to the United States where they belong. In addition, we could easily cut the overbloated military budget which comprises most of our Government debt. In fact, this would also be a very good time to recind the Bush Tax handout to the very richest Americans as well.

For more on the importance of consumption as it relates to economies and how the massive job cuts by the largest employer in the United States can lead to a collapsed economy and especially in a period of deflation, may I recommend you take an introductory survey course in Macroeconomics, and if you can also take the prerequisites, a course in Money and Banking. These courses are designed to assist folks who have little or no background in economics understand the function of Government in our economy. You may find it to be a lot of help. These courses are offered by MU Columbia.

http://economics.missouri.edu/

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Feb 18, 2011, at 7:48 AM

Oklahoma Reader

Regarding your interesting comment in which you mention the right wing wacko Republican in Kansas, He apparently studied American History under Michele Bachmann, who thinks that African Americans came to the United States looking for a better life...lol lol lol.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/02/11/ba...

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Feb 18, 2011, at 3:50 AM

..... because if you DONT touch entitlements you wont lose voters as a Dem? lol.

Entitlement spending to the HUGE amount that we have, does nothing to create jobs or cause the hiring back of laid of employees... NOTHING

-- Posted by mrxray on Fri, Feb 18, 2011, at 3:01 AM

Nanadot... how about you find the actual words from the Governor of Wis. BEFORE you take an OPINION piece out of context. The only thing I can find that he said about the national guard was that he would recall the national guard to step in and guard prisons if the prison guards had a strike called in sick in mass numbers.... not one actual QUOTE from the Governor mentions intimidation or using the National Guard against citizens... LOL

BUT what do we expect from you poor liberals...

this situation in all of the states that are addressing the Union caused economic problems are going to be like light shining light on the huge numbers of violent bad actors on the left...

-- Posted by mrxray on Fri, Feb 18, 2011, at 2:58 AM

Boy o boy, Planter's can't put as many nuts in their largest can as the Republican Party elects to office these days. This one is just the latest, there will be another tomorrow. Kansas legislator complaining about a furriner gettin college help when her son could not. "I could tell she wasn't originally from this country because she wasn't white, and she wasn't black she had that olive complexion" "I didn't have to ask where she was from" http://thinkprogress.org/2011/02/15/ks-g...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Feb 18, 2011, at 12:08 AM

Cheesehead you gotta be proud of your Packers. Check this one out. http://crooksandliars.com/karoli/wiscons...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Feb 17, 2011, at 11:41 PM

This is the specific link associated with my prior post, though the other link is chock full of news. http://www.truth-out.org/wisconsin-crowd...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Feb 17, 2011, at 11:25 PM

Teachers, and their supporters staged a huge rally in Wisconsin's capitol against the Republican Governer's attempt to bust their union. http://classic.buzzflash.com/

As Republicans have come to power in Ohio, and other states they are attempting to bust educator's unions.

I wonder where those educators were when all the other union's were being busted? Many were voting for George W. Bush twice, and voting Republican in state, and local elections.

It would almost serve them right for their antiunion political positions when it was not their ox being gored, and for their silence as unions have dropped like flies.

I wonder how they feel now about the union busting Republican party?

" we were the only ones left, and they came for us"

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Feb 17, 2011, at 11:22 PM

cheesehead

Clearly, the Republicans are showing our State just how evil they really are.

I may disagree with the conservative Democrats, but at least they aren't nuts.

As Bill Mahr points out, the Democrats have shifted to the middle and the Republicans have gone off the deep end.

But we don't have to tolerate these crazies. We have a choice. Perhaps its time we give the liberals a chance to Govern because the crazy Republicans and the conservative Democrats sure don't seem to have any plans that actually work.

That is why this American/Missourian will be supporting the Green Party in the next election.

Its time to get all the crazies out of our Government and replace them with sane folks who will do the right thing.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 17, 2011, at 4:25 PM

It looks like the radical agenda is even taking place here in Missouri as State Sen Jane Cunningham(R)is trying to take us back a century and repeal child labor laws.

Does anybody want their 14 year old child working long hours on school nights? Well it would happen if some Republicans got their wishes.

This is one example of the good the Federal Government does as they stop these people with crazy ideas.

http://thinkprogress.org/2011/02/15/miss...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Thu, Feb 17, 2011, at 11:56 AM

Barack Obama's Drug Use

I guess for Obama and the Democrats this is a badge of honor. You HYPOCRITES!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.obamapedia.org/page/Barack+Ob...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Feb 17, 2011, at 11:37 AM

NanaDot

Actually Rush is an expert...

...at being a drug dealer.

After all, he got busted for trafficking in drugs and still managed to worm his way out of it with out serving a single day in prison.

Anyone else who got caught dealing drugs the way Rush did would still be sitting in a prison cell.

And you have to wonder, what would a multi-millionaire drug dealer like Rush have in common with your average Joe?

Answer: nothing.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Feb 16, 2011, at 1:30 AM

"If spending cuts kill jobs, 'so be it': Boehner"

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/1...

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/201...

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/federal...

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/02/15/if...

Folks the Republican leadership in the House thinks it does not matter if you lose your job as a result of Republican House policies. Conservative leadership thinks your job is not important. House Speaker, Republican Boehner thinks protecting tax cuts for the richest 10% of Americans is far more important than your ability to feed your children.

Is this the economic leadership we wanted? Did we really want a Party in charge of the House that thinks you having a job is of no importance?

Folks the Democrats and Republican Parties have failed us. They will not do the right thing -- no matter how hard We the People twist their political arm.

Its time for solutions.

Its time for the Green Party.

Check 'em out:

Green Party Platform:

http://www.greenparty.org/Platform.php

You might just like what you see...

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Feb 15, 2011, at 10:19 PM

rr3yv0

In my opinion, all the proposed cuts I have read about in the news amount to National economic suicide.

Yes we need to cut the deficit, but cutting social programs and laying off government employees is not the way to go and especially at the rates proposed.

Such cuts will severely strangle an already strangled National economic consumption rate, and less consumption means less jobs. Any Retailer or Producer will immediately begin laying off workers when their sales drop dramatically and expected future sales appear bleak. These laid off workers now suspend their plans for future purchases of durable goods and new homes. Thus, consumption drops even further resulting in employers laying off even more workes who also now suspend their plans for future purchases of durable goods and new homes. The end reuslt will be an accelerated downward, spiraling deflation -- at a time when we are already in a deflationary period.

We do have other areas where we could make massive cuts without significantly damaging our economy any further than it already is. We could end the immoral empire building we are engaged in, stop spending money on wars, bring all our troops home to the United States, and slash the overbloated and massive military which comprises most of our debt spending.

Rush may make cute comments, but I can assure you if we, as a Nation follow his economic advise, there will be a heck of a lot more folks in the poor house than there are now. Let's hope you and your loved ones won't be included in that count.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Feb 15, 2011, at 7:05 PM

"Since Democrats took Congress in 2007, the US has racked up more debt than all presidents from Washington through Bush 43. Obama, one of the architects of this spending, opens his presser saying that we have to live within our means. This is like Col. Sanders saying, 'We gotta stop killing chickens!'" -Rush

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Feb 15, 2011, at 5:33 PM

Lol rr...

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Feb 15, 2011, at 4:56 PM

Very good okr I'm happy for ya!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Feb 15, 2011, at 6:22 AM

OKR,

Thanks mate...you are way too kind lol.

Anyeay, I am sure rr would agree you are a poet and don't know it mate...lol lol lol....

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Feb 15, 2011, at 4:46 AM

Thanks News. I'm glad you enjoyed it. Doubly so because I have great regard for your opinions.

Oh, by the way, rr3 before you ask,I made that up all by myself, just as I did the last one that you asked, "Wow okr did you make that up all by yourself?"

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Feb 15, 2011, at 2:38 AM

Wow Nan,

I read the article you posted a link to. I am shocked.

As a Veteran, I am highly offended by Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker's odd notion that our Army should be deployed and use force against our own people peacefully excercising their right to strike and their right to protest publically.

As a soldier in the United States Army, my first and formost duty was to PROTECT American Citizens -- not threaten them when they are excercising their right to strike and demonstrate.

I wish conservatives would wake up and learn to respect our chrerished American traditions and stop behaving as if they hate our time-honored American principles of freedom and liberty.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Feb 15, 2011, at 12:26 AM

Oh very good OKR

I like it!

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Feb 15, 2011, at 12:12 AM

Who is that guy who is known as Rush,

who evaded the draft by a boil on his tush?

Who believes he has a direct dispensation

to tell lies as truth to folk of the nation,

that his audience endorses by acclamation.

The only real truth that he has ever deployed?

A drug addict can be successfully employed.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Feb 14, 2011, at 11:19 PM

"Does the right ever hold a convention and say, 'You know what? We gotta dump the Tea Party people,' or 'We gotta deemphasize the racism of our Party members? Does the right ever do anything for its enemies, to try to be loved and associated by its enemies? No! So why should liberals?"

I think this is what Rush really meant to say...or maybe not...but it looks to me like his generization could be applied to almost any political group or ideology -- Just fill in the name with the name of the folks you want to smear.

Its the Rush way!

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Feb 14, 2011, at 9:40 PM

rr3yv0

It should painfully obvious to anyone with an IQ above 74 that these conservative leaders are not very bright at all...

...and the fact that they are not very bright is well established by their own words.

Their words....not mine.

So I have to wonder if we really want folks who don't know much to make the rules for us.

I think not.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Feb 14, 2011, at 9:19 PM

Here is the SNL version of the O"Reilly and Obama interview.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/13...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Mon, Feb 14, 2011, at 8:33 PM

"Does the left ever hold a convention and say, 'You know what? We gotta dump the Huffington Post people,' or 'We gotta deemphasize the Daily Kos'? Does the left ever do anything for its enemies, to try to be loved and associated by its enemies? No! So why should conservatives?" -Rush

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Feb 14, 2011, at 8:09 PM

Seems to me news when you lack for argument you attack someone's intelligence. Wonder why?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Feb 14, 2011, at 7:27 PM

Actually rr,

Factually incorrect and misleading statements on the part of well known conservatives leads me to believe perhaps they should go back to grade school...and actually study this time around.

1.) "Rep. Riddle Claims Terrorist Baby Plot"

http://www.newsvideoclip.tv/abc-breaking...

with video (dang my lyin' ears and eyes)

2.) "Bachmann Slavery: Watch Anderson Cooper Blast Bachmann for "Rewriting History"

http://edition.cnn.com/video/?/video/pol...

with video (dang my lyin' ears and eyes)

3.) "Christine O'Donnell: Of Mice and Men"

http://www.examiner.com/science-policy-i...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,3119...

4.) Sharron Angle, "Government isn't what our founding fathers put into the Constitution. This is different..."

line 18

http://www.mesquitelocalnews.com/viewnew...

5.) "Tea Party Nation Founder Declares Himself a Birther"

http://teapartynationalism.com/the-blogb...

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/...

6.) "Meghan McCain Condemns Michele Bachmann's & Sarah Palin's Ignorence"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y9k8mSCV...

We have to wonder rr, would a Corporation put a person with 3rd grade math skills in charge of engineering? Would a corporation put a 6th grade drop out in charge of their investment by hiring him as their CEO?

Or do corportations make sure the folks who run their corporation are fully qualified to do the job and have sufficient education to do so.

Do we really want conservatives, who clearly are not very smart. running our Nation?

I think not.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Feb 14, 2011, at 7:03 PM

"Bachmann ignores slavery in African-American history again"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/02/11/ba...

with video ("dang my lyin' ears and eys", lol lol)

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Feb 14, 2011, at 5:48 PM

Now we are back in grade school.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Feb 14, 2011, at 5:27 PM

"US Chamber hired firm to investigate families and children of critics"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/02/14/us...

Ok folks, now let's say it all together,

"I-N-V-A-S-I-O-N_____OF_____P-R-I-V-A-C-Y"

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Feb 14, 2011, at 3:27 PM

X-ray,

I have said many times that I do not support or cast my vote for Republicans or Democrats.

I believe they are in fact one Party, the United Fascist Party.

I see no significant differences between Democrats and Republicans. They both want to stick a knife in the back of our Nation...they only differ on how far to shove the knife in.

At this point, I believe the Party with the best platform is the Green Party. In addition, they have a lot of support already and have viablity. In fact, Here in Australia, the Greens are so strong now that they control the Australian Senate.

I would also like to see other 3rd parties take a portion of the House and Senate seats in the USA...regardless of their, reasonable, non-violent, political ideology (the Neo-nazis, the Muslim Brotherhood, or the klan would be 3 that I would say are NOT reasonable, for example).

Democracy works best when all reasonable political parties participate and hold seats in the House and Senate. However, when we only have 2 Parties participating in our Democracy, it becomes "their way or the highway."

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Feb 13, 2011, at 6:06 PM

news.... sounds like you are part of the tea party... wanting to toss out the establishment politicos.... wow... You are making progress!!! lol

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Feb 13, 2011, at 5:08 PM

George W. Bush, persona non grata all around the world. http://arabnews.com/opinion/letters/arti...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Feb 12, 2011, at 9:42 PM

Nanadot I did not make the claim for world dominance.... only the importance of having and showing the strength for national security... LOL

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Feb 12, 2011, at 6:15 PM

A little hard to do from Australia mate. Don't you think?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Feb 12, 2011, at 4:53 PM

Hey do you think maybe we can get rid of the Republicans and Democrats if we have a big demonstration like the Egyptians did?

Wouldn't that be great to finally have freedom and democacy like the Egyptians have now?

But no, instead we are stuck with the Unified Fascist Party in Congress and the White House.

Folks the Egyptians showed us the way. They proved we don't have to accept the fascists.

We need an Egyptian-style massive demonstration in Washington.

.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Feb 12, 2011, at 3:07 PM

..and speaking of Fox so-called News...

"Former Fox News employee: 'Stuff is just made up'"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/02/fox-n...

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Feb 12, 2011, at 4:53 AM

Ok, well Mubarak is gone.

I down, 2 more to go.

Come on Bill O'Reilly and Lil'Johnny Boehner get those resignation letters ready!

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Feb 12, 2011, at 4:52 AM

OKR... regarding Military spending, if you read that article, what do you disagree with... or agree with?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Feb 12, 2011, at 12:30 AM

I was just thinking...you can lead a horse to water, but if he thinks it is a trough of urine you may have mistaken a jack *** for a horse.

The tight automatic word deleter on this web site does not allow one to use the noun jack ***. If it is not clear as to the word I wanted to use, I mean the most widely used name for the father of a mule. Sorry, but ya gotta fill in for the asteriks.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Feb 12, 2011, at 12:01 AM

More GOPers are foregoing birthday celebrations for Conception Day celebrations. http://theswiftreport.com/?p=732

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Feb 11, 2011, at 11:36 PM

There IS common gound between liberals and conservatives, and they CAN work together for the benefit of the people. That common ground is a reverence for the personal liberty of the citizens of the United States of America. Kuchinich-Paul in 2012.

http://blog.buzzflash.com/node/12334

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Feb 11, 2011, at 11:05 PM

X, I read your Weekly Standard link. Not to worry about ever cutting defense spending. We are up to our eyeballs in a military-industrial combine that we have no way, nor will to change. It is what we are. The world knows it, and so do discerning people in our country.

Whether it is right, or wrong, it is, and it will not change.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Feb 11, 2011, at 8:49 PM

It all says much more about Bill O'Reilly than it does about Obama. Much more

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Feb 11, 2011, at 7:48 PM

Whatever X. I was cracking wise. Lighten up.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Feb 11, 2011, at 5:13 PM

XRAY,

You are dead wrong Obama wasnt given a change to answer questions which was very disrespectful, but I take it you liked this interview. Sometimes you right wingers will hold onto any thread you can to make the President look bad and I'm actually glad you do these type of things because reasonable people notice these things. If you right wingers would stand up against these events you could actually bring some decency to political discourse.

-- Posted by miss october on Fri, Feb 11, 2011, at 3:43 PM

Interesting on the realities of cutting defense spending

http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/p...

-- Posted by mrxray on Fri, Feb 11, 2011, at 3:39 PM

Back in the day...lol if you ask a question, as an interviewer and the person OBVIOUSLY is avoiding that question with the direction of his answer why would YOU NOT interrupt and redirect, especially if you have a short time period to ask the questions? LOL blind defense of Obama is sad...

OKR... my discussion of Obama/o'reilly interview have absolutely NO bearing on what Bush, Clinton or Reagan may or may not have done, in YOUR opinion.

-- Posted by mrxray on Fri, Feb 11, 2011, at 3:38 PM

Glenn Beck tries to incite viewers by calling President Obama a racist.

http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/video/g...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Fri, Feb 11, 2011, at 11:05 AM

You who castigate Obama for giving evasive answers to Bill O'Reilly lack a grasp of the past.

Ah if we could but go back to those halcyon days when our presidents gave a different response to questions. For instance;

George W. Bush, who characteristically often did not understand the questions, and answered a different question in a manner that no one could understand the answer he gave to an unasked question. His press secretary's full time job was explaining what the Prez had said, or had meant to say than anything else.

Bill Clinton who parsed things to the point that he could draw that fine line wherein you had to scratch your head to determine whether it was a lie, or the truth. That upset a Republican Congress to the point that they chose to impeach him just to figure it out.

Ronald Reagan who was the only person testifying regarding Contragate that said he did not recall, and was telling the truth. Many of his feel good answers came from that twilight golden reverie slipped into by those who are confused by the present.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Feb 11, 2011, at 10:32 AM

miss o

So if your link is correct the Republicans may lose 2 members of congress in the same month.

They may also lose a justice or 2 for impartiality and activism in the court.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Fri, Feb 11, 2011, at 10:08 AM

xray

Name one politician that will answer 70 or more questions directly under 10 seconds each. He didnt have a chance to answer the questions. There is a difference between getting answers and getting the ones you want. The President has moved to the center and Fox doesnt want its viewers to believe this so Im quite sure CEO Ailes had this interview happen just like he wanted.

Maybe OReilly should have had a timer and informed our President he had only 10 secs to answer each question. The interview onlys gives evidence to the complaints of unprofessionalism thrown at Fox news.

-- Posted by Back in the day on Fri, Feb 11, 2011, at 10:01 AM

Back in the Day... I have a different interpretation of O'Reilly's interview... He has intervied Obama before and every time Obama get interviewed when he is asked a question that points to soemthing that he dislikes or disagrees with Obama evades and attempts to answer a different question from what was asked. As I said, ANY interviewer who asks a specific question of a person and then that person dodges and tries to answer a different question, the interviewer SHOULD attempt to redirect the interviewee back to the REAL question. However, I think that O'reilly had the common sense to understand that the Superbowl halftime was not the place to be confrontational so after a few attempts with each question he just moved on...

I agree, it was not O'reilly's best interview, but what do you do when someone tries as hard as Obama to dodge the hard questions?

-- Posted by mrxray on Fri, Feb 11, 2011, at 8:47 AM

Central Planning vs. The Market Economy

http://www.redstate.com/vladimir/2011/02...

A good example of how much alternative energy will cost with government involvement. This is just one example I am sure there are many others.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Feb 11, 2011, at 5:04 AM

Mr Xray I hope that all goes well with your son. Deployments seem interminably long for a parent. I appreciate his sacrifice, and yours.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Feb 10, 2011, at 11:23 PM

News my heart felt sympathy for your loss. Up to a point I understand how you feel. My stepson (since he was ten) did a tour in Iraq after he was stop gapped. He and some buddies were "blown up" (using their vernacular). He is out now, and has been for some time. He has many lingering problems from his experience, and life is difficult for him. I also ask, why? By the way he is another of the progressives who served.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Feb 10, 2011, at 11:19 PM

News,

You may get your wish as Senate majority leader John Boehner is involved in a sex scandel involving 2 women one is a lobbyist.

Most of us already knew he was imbed with lobbyist and took lots of money from them, but it turns out he may have been taking more than money.

Yea I know this is the Enquirer, but they were right about John Edwards.

http://www.nationalenquirer.com/john_boe...

-- Posted by miss october on Thu, Feb 10, 2011, at 10:12 PM

Yeah rr,

...and he has thumbed his nose at the Egyptian masses of poor...again.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 10, 2011, at 9:20 PM

Seems like Mubarak has thumbed his nose at America and the world saying that he wants no foreign interference.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Feb 10, 2011, at 8:48 PM

Hey wouldn't this be a great headline.

"Mubarack, Lil' Boehner, and O'Reilly all announce their immediate retirment!"

But alas...it remains just a hope, a dream, and has not happened...yet.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 10, 2011, at 8:38 PM

O'Reilly should just retire now while he still has a least few folks out there who still hold some level of respect for him.

Lol...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 10, 2011, at 8:33 PM

xray,

Did you watch the interview Mr. O'reilly made a fool of himself and I'm a fan of O'reilly. I watch his show on a regular basis and wasnt him at his best.

I dont really blame Bill though I think its the radical management at Fox that put him up to make it as confrontational as possible. Bill didnt share any of his thoughts nor did he let our President finish he interrupted him more than 70 times. I will Bill O Reilly would go to a different network where he would be allowed to ask more moderate questions and not be used as a pawn to help decrease his popularity.

-- Posted by Back in the day on Thu, Feb 10, 2011, at 7:10 PM

LOL Nanadot.. O'reilly only interrupted AFTER Obama started evading and dodging the DIRECT question that was asked of him and OReilly as ANY news interviewer does, he merely tried to reidirect him to the original question... good try

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Feb 10, 2011, at 6:56 PM

News... sorry to hear about loss in your family.

My son is still there.

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Feb 10, 2011, at 6:54 PM

so for all you HUGE government big spending liberals this should be interesting and informative as to the failure of your big government, big spending ADDICTION

http://nation.foxnews.com/democrats/2011...

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Feb 10, 2011, at 6:53 PM

Cheeshead... so if you think Justice Thomas should recuse himself, then so to should Kagan Right? After all she was a member of Obama's administration IN FAVOR And PUSHING for Obamacare AND she was appointed by Obama so she OWES Obama for this lifetime appointment.... so how can SHE be impartial in ruling on the Obama care case?

BUT you never answer direct questions... LOL

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Feb 10, 2011, at 6:52 PM

My family thanks you for you kind words rr...as do I.

However, we would be free without him having to die in that war. Afghanistan has is not and has never been a threat to the United States. Afghanistan did not attack us. The Taliban did not attack us. We, the United States attacked them...so tell me again how my nephew died for my freedom...I don't see what attacking Afghanistan has to do with my freedom. Oh and by the way, my Nephew was personally opposed to that war. He often told us that we should not be there and that our being there only brought more suffering to the People of Afghanistan...and he was saying that while he was serving there...so I think he had first hand experience in the matter. But like any good soldier, he followed orders...but he sure didn't die for our freedom.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 10, 2011, at 5:58 PM

Very sorry to hear of your loss News and I know it doesn't matter his political affiliation. He evidently loved his country enough to make the sacrifice. Unfortunately his sacrifice was his life like many others before and there will probably be many after. It takes a special person to volunteer to protect this country and the freedoms that we enjoy. I would like to extend sympathy to you and your family with the loss of a loved one.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Feb 10, 2011, at 5:17 PM

To those who think only conservatives serve in the Armed Forces....

I would like to share something with you.

My nephew died last week from complications related to the combat injuries he received in Afghanistan.

My sister, a proud liberal progressive, gave her son to that cause...whatever that cause is.

My Nephew was a 34 year old Career soldier. He enlisted in the Army not long after the attack on 9/11. He served his first tour of duty in Iraq for a couple of years and then he was sent to do a tour of duty in Afghanistan. He was wounded by Taliban bullets as he was being pulled into a helicopter. The Army were evacuating the area under fire and my Nephew refused to get on the helicopter until all the men under his command were safely onboard the aircraft. He was the last to board and his legs were shot up pretty badly in the process.

My nephew gave his life for his Country...our Country...and he was a rock solid, America-loving Liberal -- a full on politial progressive who gave his life for his fellow Americans.

He will be sorely missed by my family. He will be forgotten by the public. He is now just another casulaty of that war. I just have to wonder...did my family and nephew really have to make that sacrifice? What cause did my nephew die for? What in that God-forsaken Country is worth the life of even one American kid?

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 10, 2011, at 5:05 PM

Uh Oh!

It looks like Lil' Boehner, the Crying Orange and Speaker of the House, may be on his way out...already.

"National Enquirer: Boehner had affairs"

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/politics/201...

http://www.examiner.com/pop-culture-in-c...

Yeah the National Enquirer, the same folks who gave us the low-down on John Edwards.

This should be interesting lol lol lol...

Folks, these Republicans and Democrats are all the same.

...but we do have a choice...Green Party...a viable 3rd Party...has solutions.

http://www.greenparty.org/Platform.php

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 10, 2011, at 4:30 PM

cheesehead

Yes and she claims she is the "Teaparty Ambassador"...lol lol lol lol (whatever that is lol lol lol).

In fact, Justice Thomas did not disclose his wife's additional income of almost $700,000. Supreme Court Justices are required by law to report all of their income and all of their spouse's income. He failed to obey that law. There are groups currently conducting investigations into this and, if it turns out to be true. Justice Thomas may soon find himself impeached, convicted, and no longer a Supreme Court Justice.

Saddly, the Senate failed to listen when good folks like Anita Hill testified as to the low moral charactor of Clarence Thomas. Instead of listening to the message, the Senate decided to "kill the messenger" instead.

By the way, lest we forget, he was regarded by the American Bar at that time to be the least qualified candidate for the Supreme Court in the history of the United States.

Thomas has to go. Its time Congress begin the impeachment process so we can get an honest jurist into that seat.

" Clarence Thomas failed to report wife's income, watchdog says"

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/...

"Watchdog Says Clarence Thomas Failed to Report Wife's Heritage Foundation Income"

http://nationaljournal.com/member/politi...

"Group says 2 justices may have conflict of interest in election case"

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/01/...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 10, 2011, at 3:42 PM

rr3, Feinstein et.al don't read the MDN blogs, so how could we expect any of them to understand anything?

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Feb 10, 2011, at 3:04 PM

The Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas's wife has taken about $700,000 from opponents of Health Care reform already. So if Justice Thomas and his wife are set to gain from the potential ruling on Health care reform then how would he be allowed to sit for the case.

It is illegal for Justices of the Supreme court to be partial in their rulings, but we know this justice has benefited from this oppossition to reform. We are asking the Dept of Justice to take a look at this case as Justice Thomas is impartial and would't fairly represent this high court.

http://www.anthonyweiner.com/conflictedc...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Thu, Feb 10, 2011, at 12:36 PM

If Jesus was a capitalist, this is what would happen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHq_wkKzI...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Thu, Feb 10, 2011, at 10:57 AM

"'Thousands' of protesters may have been tortured: report"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/02/cable...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wikileak...

http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/wor...

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Feb 9, 2011, at 8:24 PM

"Cables: FBI trained Egypt's state security 'torturers'"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/02/cable...

America...the torture expert of the World.

What has become of our Nation's cherished priniciples and traditions?

It appears our cherished National principles of doing what is right and just were sold out by the Republicans and the Democrats.

Its time we throw out all the bums -- kick the Democrats and Republicans to the curb and vote 3rd Party...vote Green Party.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Feb 9, 2011, at 8:00 PM

Feinstein: "We don't understand this"crisis in Egypt

What does she understand?

http://hotair.com/archives/2011/02/09/fe...

Fundamentalists Islamic what? You gotta listen to the video.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Feb 9, 2011, at 6:44 PM

Sheila Jackson Lee Says Pepsi Super Bowl Ad Was Racist

And this woman is an elected representative in our government? Amazing!

http://nation.foxnews.com/media/2011/02/...

Seems like the one proclaiming racist are one. Don't you think?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Feb 9, 2011, at 6:35 PM

Exactly what I anticipated. No answer!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Feb 9, 2011, at 5:48 PM

Would you say that about Bush? I or II!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Feb 9, 2011, at 5:43 PM

I would like to beg to question what Obama has done(in your opinion)specifically to make this country a better place to live, work and raise a family. If I was looking for a country to live in what would I look for in Obama's leadership to convince me to put down roots in the USA? Leave entitlements out please.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Feb 9, 2011, at 1:35 PM

Wtf I don't have the ability to foretell what would have happened in that situation. Although I am sure there are plenty who would claim to know that. Would you?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Feb 9, 2011, at 1:29 PM

rr3yvo

I think Obama has been a great leader. He can't fix everything overnight, there's alot of things I wish he could do but all in all I think he has done ok. Would you like Bush back?

Let me ask you this, what if McCain /Palin had won and McCain had health issues that put Palin in charge and it were two years later. What would mama grizzly have done to fix everything? Personally I think she would have found a reason to resign.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Feb 9, 2011, at 1:16 PM

Why do some always want to make excuses as to why Obama is not a leader?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Feb 9, 2011, at 12:01 PM

Obama sure did the bob and weave with o'Reilly on Sunday....he could not give a straight answer to any question that O'reilly asked him.

I thought this aspect of the interview was telling.

"Obama revealed his alarming apathy about the Muslim Brotherhood seizing power in the aftermath of the Egyptian crisis. While Obama easily faulted "the judge in Florida" who declared "ObamaCare" unconstitutional, he couldn't manage to criticize the Brotherhood despite its commitment to a worldwide caliphate imposing Shariah Law and Jihad on all nations."

http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/02/o...

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Feb 9, 2011, at 9:57 AM

But you are right.. Obama likes to distract the citizenry...while hiding his real agenda...

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Feb 9, 2011, at 9:39 AM

lol Empress... it is not ONLY rich people buying people off... Unions, Code Pink, and all sorts of special interest groups are buying off politicians... that is not news. But when we allow the politicians to continue to spend and spend and spend and spend and spend what do you expect will happen? We spend enough on election campaigns that if we used it on our debt, we would be debt free in probably 10 years. When you toss that much money around what you get IS CORRUPTION. IF we had a LIMITED government that only operated within the constitutional limits instead of expanding on its limits by manipulating the law to garner more and more power for the Federal government, then corruption would be more limited as well... remove the money from campaigns and we would have less corruption.

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Feb 9, 2011, at 9:39 AM

cheesehead... if you are crying about a couple of justices being partial due to their personal lives, then we better find some robots or something... You dont think EVERY justice is influenced by their personal lives and experiences and friends?

LOL

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Feb 9, 2011, at 9:33 AM

lol Empress... This is not a formal settting. While it is a good idea to provide a link or something you post it is not some sort of crime if you forget. WE have had people jump on others off and on on this message board and as I always say, if it is important enough for you to complain about then it is important enough for you to google it because most stuff is simple to find if you dont believe what someone is saying or posting from some other sources.

And yes... my name is a self important name...

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Feb 9, 2011, at 9:28 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
I would urge everyone to make clear which words are quoted from another source. Formal or informal, that's just a good practice for the sake of fairness and accuracy.

OKR I never said that laws had no place... GOOD TRY.

What I did say was that you can NEVER enact enough laws to stop people from being human and being imperfect and no amount of laws, especially laws created by a corrupt political process that we have, full of corrupt politicians who govern their selves... errr not so much on the self governace in the case like Charlie Rangle and others that get a verbal lashing when they should be kicked out for poor ethics...

You and nanadot are correct, the Constitution laid out the ground work for better treatment of the people of the nation and allowed for the civil rights laws, YET we still have racism, we still have crime as we will always. People will ALWAYS find a means to get advantage over other people, a loophole for self benefit and there will still be people who break the law, any law

The point is the whole "nanny state" that the US is becoming, where they want to take away our choices in some demented egotistical attempt at thinking that "the" know what is best for me or my family... and it seems that some people are too "slow" to see that the more we allow the government to dictate our "choices" to us the less freedom we have and the easier it is for them to take more away.

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Feb 9, 2011, at 9:24 AM

http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/02/d...

Interesting reading...

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Feb 9, 2011, at 9:18 AM

Those with a weak foundation have nothing to stand on.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Feb 9, 2011, at 5:53 AM

http://www.redstate.com/vladimir/2011/02...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Feb 9, 2011, at 5:48 AM

"The Climes They Are A-Changin'"

"Folks, this is the best piece on climate change you are goin got read. You really need to check out the whole thing."

See what they were saying back 100 years ago.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Feb 9, 2011, at 5:39 AM

Wow all the Bush bashing I love it!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Feb 9, 2011, at 5:31 AM

Tis a sad state of affairs. Big George, and Big Mamma sat their pride, and joy, Little George down on a yellow brick road. He skipped along it for fifty years always looking for a brain. The only thing he found was that his golden paved road ran in a big circle. Tis regrettable that he never found a brain.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Feb 9, 2011, at 12:40 AM

Well at the least George the small, and Cheney are both under a loose form of house arrest. The former because he had no brain, and the latter because he had no heart. Glad neither can go far.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Feb 9, 2011, at 12:29 AM

Sposed to get 6 to 10 more tonight...ain't started yet.

It had finally melted off enough today that I could look for possums 'n coons, but I didn't even find a vole.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Feb 9, 2011, at 12:05 AM

It doesn't look like George Bush,The Smaller will ever be runnin around th world on missions of mercy, and diplomacy like his predecessors Clinton, and George The Larger. Too much chance he would be arrested in over one hundred nations, for his hand in torture. http://www.truth-out.org/george-bush-cut...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Feb 9, 2011, at 12:01 AM

Evenin Mizz ND.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Feb 8, 2011, at 11:49 PM

Speakin of missin persons...anybody got any idee where ole Johnhenryshammer mighta got off to?

Seriously, I hope you are O.K. JHH. Raise your hand to let us know if you read this.

Your conservative brethren are out numbered, and under furious attack. No one knows how long they can hold out. Time for you to ride back to the Alamo. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Feb 8, 2011, at 11:48 PM

Empress ain't no need to rush off...y'all come on back now.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Feb 8, 2011, at 11:26 PM

Here is a link to a petition that is being sent to the DOJ and Attorney Gen Eric Holder calling for an investigation into the impartiality of Surprems Court justices Scalia and Thomas and their ruling on Citizens United vs Federal Election Commission. The evidence is begining to show that these two justices could have possibly gained in the personel lives due to this ruling.

http://www.commoncause.org/site/apps/nln...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Feb 8, 2011, at 10:31 PM

Why not stick to the issues wtf and okr. I mean you can do better than to attack my sources or what I say. Can't you?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Feb 8, 2011, at 9:10 PM

rr3yvo,

Do you have any source other than Beck?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Feb 8, 2011, at 9:07 PM

Empress we have been over, and over this with rr3 for months, if not years. He just likes to play by his own rules, and doesn't care that others get credit for what they say, nor if we take others words for his.

Another favorite tactic is when his tank runs low he barrages with Rush quotes. Go back, and read past Speak Out politics, and you will see what I mean.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Feb 8, 2011, at 8:55 PM

X you said "lol Nanadot... there you go again.. I never said we needed NO laws. I only point out the reality of life and that reality is that you CANNOT EVER come up with enough laws to legislate fairness or equality or to force people to abide by our laws."

Aren't you forgetting something X? Say the Civil Rights Act that changed the way people in the south behave. Or are you up to arguing that law did not force folks to treat Blacks in the south better, and with more fairness, and equality?

Nice try. LOL

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Feb 8, 2011, at 8:48 PM

"Michael Moore: Show me the money!"

http://www.glennbeck.com/2011/02/08/mich...

I am sure he is doing this to help the poor in some way because he hates capitalism. Don't you think he has good intentions?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Feb 8, 2011, at 8:21 PM

Empress when critiquing someone's post please open the link to see that it was not plagiarized before accusing. You said you didn't open the link so I was right about the assumption. As always Eric came to the rescue that is why I always leave the policing of this blog to him and his employees because they do a much better job then I can. Thank you.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Feb 8, 2011, at 8:15 PM

Thanks, Eric!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Feb 8, 2011, at 7:24 PM

"We've tried every Obama idea to stimulate the economy -- surges in private sector regulations, lining the pockets of public sector unions, deficit spending, phony 'green' technology, crony capitalism with companies such as GE -- and we've lost. The future will be won by defeating Obama at the ballot box." -Rush

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Feb 8, 2011, at 7:18 PM

Nanadot you posted a quote about society and how people care for each other... that is another thing you cannot legislate. You cannot legislate caring or compassion or charity... that is not a function of government but one of society and that is above what the law is for.... if you want to encourage society changes for the better you have to look toward the morals and ethics and integrity and good character that many religions claim to believe in.

G. Washington stated, and I paraphrase, that our form of government is reliant on men of HIGH moral character such as is found in men of religion. Our society is so skewed... we place teeny boppers that show way too much skin on a pedastal and the same with TV/movie stars and Sports stars and basically ignore the people that are in the Public safety arena and the military and the good samaritans in society... just think how different our society would be if we sponsored good samaritans at the same rate as we do a Football player...

Government cannot ever legislate enough laws to force people to change

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Feb 8, 2011, at 7:14 PM

....or continue to be bailed out at the tax payer expense...

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Feb 8, 2011, at 7:09 PM

lol OKR... good try, I never said that the MPG issue was the sole problem and they have many and I think they should just be allowed to fail... someone else will take over their portion of the industry.

As for the US auto makers not making cars with higher MPG rates that is false... when gas prices rise more and more people wil demand a car with better gas mileage. We have seen that... and if they dont keep up with that demand then they will go out of business...

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Feb 8, 2011, at 7:08 PM

lol Nanadot... there you go again.. I never said we needed NO laws. I only point out the reality of life and that reality is that you CANNOT EVER come up with enough laws to legislate fairness or equality or to force people to abide by our laws. If you think that laws and more laws and more laws are the answer, why have we not reached a point with the millions of laws in the world, that is showing a great reduction in human infractions of laws? Where is the evidence that laws and huge numbers of laws are helping FORCE people to stop their illegal and harmful actions?

Again you live in some theoretical world where you believe government, which is made of politicians, which are flawed humans can somehow make a complete set of laws that prevent anyone from breaking those laws, or prevents people from finding personal advantage in every new set of rules and laws?

Not only is your view of laws and our current government flawed based on a theoretical assumption you are willing to TRUST government politicians to be able to enact rules that are unbiased and ones that have common sense.

EVERY aspect and EVERY socio-economic level of people and EVERY common folk, political class and corporate types are all HUMANS and made up of HUMANS and humans are imperfect and make imperfect laws and are subject to bias and influence in ways that help their own person or that of the entity that they identify with, such as businesses.

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Feb 8, 2011, at 7:04 PM

lol Empress... just because YOU picked a self important name does not mean YOU have the final say on posting rules... LOL this aint no formal research paper.... chill

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Feb 8, 2011, at 6:56 PM

Look closely Empress those were not by words. It was the title of and article with a link to it. So no you were not quoting me.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Feb 8, 2011, at 6:19 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
I would suggest putting quote marks around titles. That might make it clearer that they are from another source and not something you're stating.

Its sickening ND. Will the american people ever wake up? Well at least I don't have to feel sorry for you. You have a potential possum in the pot. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Feb 8, 2011, at 5:37 PM

The Democratic Leadership Councilhas shut down. You will find no cheer here at the demise of this long term haven for Blue Dogs, and Democrats in name only. This Progressive Populist just sees it as further evidence that their positions on the issues have been co-opted by the mainstream of the party in its drift to center right corporatism. http://www.politicsdaily.com/2011/02/08/...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Feb 8, 2011, at 4:51 PM

How much longer is the United States government going to allow the "thug-like" tactics of the Egyptian government in repressing its citizens? I know, I know...we have allowed it for the past 30 years, but at some point in time it has to end and in my mind that time is now. Also, did anyone else hear the news that Mubarak and his family are presently worth more than $40 billion...yes billion?!! Where do you think this vast amount of money came from (U.S. taxpayers and the sweat of hard working Egyptians who live off of $2 a day) and why it is that he is fighting so hard to keep his position? Mubarak has got to go! The sooner the better!

-- Posted by OldOwl on Tue, Feb 8, 2011, at 4:36 PM

It appears that Keith Olbermann has a new job at Current TV. His show will air weeknights later in 2011. Current TV is channel 196(Dish)358(directtv)

107(comcast)

http://current.com/keith-olbermann/

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Feb 8, 2011, at 3:34 PM

Nana I never said the last 2 years were the blame for everthing thing and one person is responsible. You did. But you fail to tell me what has been done the last 2 years that have helped employment or the economy? I just can't believe that the current regime can't take responsibility for something good or bad. Do you? I mean in the last election the Dems distanced themselves from their supposed legislative successes. If you call legislating against the will of the people a success.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Feb 8, 2011, at 1:27 PM

I don't know Empress I guess you had to make an assumption? You know what happens when we do that.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Feb 8, 2011, at 1:21 PM

Cheese I don't think the rich have a financial crisis. Do you?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Feb 8, 2011, at 1:20 PM

Does anyone want to know how to build a progressive Tea party? We must demand that the government regulate the behavior of corporations and the rich along with making them pay their taxes. We must make the rich pay for their own financial crisis.

http://www.thenation.com/article/158282/...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Feb 8, 2011, at 12:49 PM

But Nana Obama has been in charge for the last 2 years and what has been done to put people to work? This administration is in comtempt of court twice just to keep people from working. Now who's fault is that? You know it really doesn't matter who's fault you think it is Obama is in charge and he needs to lead not follow. Don't you think?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Feb 8, 2011, at 11:38 AM

Empress I'm not asking for Obama's resignation. The article is pure opinion I just thought it was interesting take on our current regime.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Feb 8, 2011, at 11:26 AM

How Obama Can Double His Budget Cuts By Doing His Job

http://www.redstate.com/ben_domenech/201...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Feb 8, 2011, at 6:21 AM

If Obama is willing to listen to the protesters of a foreign country due to their grievances from high food and energy prices and an unresponsive government, shouldn't he accede to the similar demands of his own citizens and resign immediately?

Hey Barack, Resign Now, and Now Means Yesterday

http://www.redstate.com/dhorowitz3/2011/...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Feb 8, 2011, at 6:18 AM

More evidence of the continuing devastation of the middle class, and why no one in a position to change that, Republican, or Democrat cares.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-kut...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Feb 7, 2011, at 11:54 PM

X an afterthought to my last statement; actually a better case could be made that were it not for the lackluster urging, and pressure from the federal government to increase vehicle gasoline mileage the American auto industry would be even further behind their world competitors. Without that pressure they would even now be trying to sell midsize sedans that get 15 to 20 miles to the gallon, when the world competition is selling mid size sedans that get 30 to 35 miles to the gallon.

You should be thankful for the little regulatory push that made them do what they didn't have the foresight to know that they should do.

How about instead, federal pressure to increase gas mileage in American cars saved them from being blown away by foreign manufacturers.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Feb 7, 2011, at 11:08 PM

X you said "Then you have things like EPA rules on MPG and exhaust emissions that change on a whim and can change from state to state also on a whim which interferes with industries because they are constantly required to retool and remodel and sometimes they have to have so many different variations from state to state that there is no cost effective way to keep up."

Do you not see any responsibility on the part of the American auto industry?

Time after time their lack of vision has left them lagging behind the world's auto industry, particularly that of the Japanese. Then they struggle to catch up only to fall behind again as they continue their short sighted ways. They have known for decades, or should have known, that improved gasoline mileage was the imperative of the future. They did nothing.

In my opinion your take is a strange twist on the libertarianism that you purport to espouse. The true libertarian slant on this one is if facets of the auto industry are not smart enough, and competitive enough to survive on the same playing field as the others, then they should perish. To lay their failure at the door of gasoline mileage regulation is utter hogwash in my opinion.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Feb 7, 2011, at 10:51 PM

The Empress,

I'm glad to see sound reasoning added to this forum by your words. When we often have things going good for us we lose sight of the plight of our fellow man. With gap between the rich and poor widening in this country I think the political divide is also growing bigger.

I hope like you do we can get past this divide and defeat the survival of the fittest mentality an get back to helping and caring for each other. Only the rich and big corpartions benefit from this type of mentality yet the common people struggle even more when this is applied to our society.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Mon, Feb 7, 2011, at 1:10 PM

rr,

Your website link is misleading! The drug your are refering to is Avastin which is being considered an off label drug due to the fact that the use isn't what they intended it to be which is common when dealing with medications.

Most of the research on this drug shows there are fatal side effects with this drug and in fact these side effects are perforated bowels, severe bleeding, and slow wound healing all of which can lead to death. This side effects are more prevalant than the side effects of chemotherapy.

This has nothing to do with health care rationing that is just a right wing spin that you fell for.

In my opinion for the FDA to approve a drug(on label) that cost $5000 a month that most insurers arent going to cover anyway so the rich are the only ones that could afford anyway that has severe and most cases fatal side effects would be irresponsible. We should actually applaud the FDA as this is a very dangerous drug even when compared with its benefits.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Mon, Feb 7, 2011, at 12:57 PM

Interesting commentary X, thanks for the heads up. Hopefully this time we won't be listening to a bunch of opportunistic expatriates to get our take on Egypt's turmoil. That provoked utter disaster for us in Iraq.

Hope you enjoyed the link I provided as much as I did yours.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Feb 7, 2011, at 10:25 AM

The True Cost of Rationing Health Care

It is wrong for the government to spend so much money on drugs and health care services that cause massive inflation for drugs and care for those paying with after tax dollars.

Just try to fill a prescription without health care insurance and you will feel the sting of health care inflation.

http://www.redstate.com/brian_d/2011/02/...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Feb 7, 2011, at 6:27 AM

The DNC's 2012 Union Convention: The Devil's Always in the Details

Unions to have their cake and eat it too?

http://www.redstate.com/laborunionreport...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Feb 7, 2011, at 6:24 AM

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3174287/Opinion%...

COurt ruling voiding Obamacare law... interesting read about court decision history and case law

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Feb 7, 2011, at 4:38 AM

okr... another interesting read from the same source

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/07/opinio...

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Feb 7, 2011, at 1:23 AM

the empress... THEORETICALLY you can think that people can all of a sudden switch to complete and total adherence to the Golden Rule. Reality is that this will never happen. Our whole nation could suddenly live by this belief system and all of our corporations could suddenly live by this system and you STILL have all of the horrible, oppressive, greedy, radical, extremist, hate-filled elements all around the world and no amount of preaching the golden rule will every legislate some sort of utopian harmony and rainbow type system where all people get along.

Reality is what we have and we have to deal within reality. We cannot see some sort of dream world that might be ideal for all and then attempt to force people to enter that dream world... and no amout of laws and rules or regs will ever create that dream world

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Feb 7, 2011, at 1:10 AM

It looks like the some Republicans are set on the destruction of the planet as they introduce pro greenhouse gas bill to congress.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2011/2...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Sun, Feb 6, 2011, at 1:33 PM

The mainstream media has totally missed the story of the Egyptian uprising. Why? Click the link, and read on. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/06/opinio...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Feb 6, 2011, at 12:18 PM

OKR... so what YOU are saying is that we should confiscate MORE taxes from the people so that the working class people pay even MORE to the government for wasteful spending, fraud, abuse, waste, inefficiency, bail outs and special favors to any and all types of entities such as businesses and Unions? Because the reality of the situation is that whatever taxation you place on businesses, whatever tariffs you place on corporations is ALWAYS passed on to the consumer and ALWAYS harms the poor and working class more... So what you are saying is MORE taxation and more costs incurred due to MORE regulation and more redtape and paperwork that the working class people have to pay for? THAT is your solution?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Feb 6, 2011, at 9:48 AM

Nanadot.. again this goes back to the whole premise that you are saying an economic system can be good or evil or have some sort of human qualities and can manipulate people. Capitalism and a free market are not the problem... there is NO SUCH THING as as true Free Market Capitalism because of the ENORMOUS amount of rules and regs... heck take just the Tax Code alone and none of the various industry rules and regs or things like EPA and other government bureaucacy laws and regs and in the tax code alone you have 76000 pages or more of tax laws and rules and exemptions and loopholes. Who made those rules? PEOPLE, POLITICIANS that YOU and I elected throught the various years, most geared toward which every special interest group is the "pet" of the day. Democrats and Republicans have CREATED the rules of the game for the entire economy to function in over decades and the rules are convoluted, confusing, sometimes contradictory. The tax code is so confusing that those writing the laws, like Charlie Rangle cannot even understand them and violates the law routinely.

Then you have things like EPA rules on MPG and exhaust emissions that change on a whim and can change from state to state also on a whim which interferes with industries because they are constantly required to retool and remodel and sometimes they have to have so many different variations from state to state that there is no cost effective way to keep up.

The whole concept that "Capitalism" is the CAUSE of economic problems is silly as it ignores the whole HUMAN aspect to our Government and our society and our business leaders. Just as socialism and marxism and communism and any other type of political/economic THEORY is not the problem with their failures, but the corruption of the humans in power and the greed for more power and money by those in power. And when you are seeking more power and money, you are easily swayed by where the next campaign handout or donation is going to come from or where the post-politics career opportunity is going to come from and you are more readily able to justify bending and breakig rules and laws for self gain.

Just as corporations are always looking for the loophole to provide them with a means to reduce cost and increase profitability. It is human nature that is the problem, not an economic system or a political system.

Our politicians are the rule writers, the enablers, the builders of the boundaries in which our businesses operate and with all laws and regulations there are unintended consequences. Just as children will constantly test the boundaries of their parents rules, humans will constantly test the boundaries of government rules and will always attempt to find loopholes that benefit them.... and since corporations are created by humans and run by humans and employee humans, corporations are no different than an individual human in this regards....

SO in all YOUR rants about the evils of some imaginary Free Market Capitalism that does NOT exist in reality, how do YOU purpose to legislate humanity out of humans? How do you legislate instinctual survial of the fittest, self serving tendencies out of humans, especially out of the ones who run those horrible evil vile big corporations that you hate so much?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Feb 6, 2011, at 9:45 AM

lol OKR... I never said that all problems will be solved with the disolution of Unions, only that they DO create competitive disadvantages to US businesses that are forced to pay the additional costs caused by Unions.

Billions of TAXPAYER Money is getting funnelled through the major industry with Unions, the Auto and Ironworkers unions because they are too big to fail, granted not all the issues are Union related but a big portion of the problems are due to not being competitive with other producers inthe world.

If you consider the Union caused prevailing wage scam, this is total waste of tax payer money. Think about how many MORE projects could have been funded with the 'stimulus' plan had they had a bidding process that allowed LOCAL contractors to bid on LOCAL jobs at the LOCAL wage rates instead of the oft times double rate where the money paid in wages go to big cities because that is where the Union contractors are located and that is where the majority of their workers live.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Feb 6, 2011, at 9:20 AM

Some people believe in ghosts that never think they do.

They fear long dead unions, and their faintly rattling chains.

They constantly tell us all that we should believe it too.

They fear another specter, that's like fearing desert rains,

taxation of the rich, and the middle class it drains.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Feb 6, 2011, at 2:00 AM

Mr. X-ray: If I follow your line of reasoning, prosperity, and a re-burgeoning middle class is just around the corner.

You place huge emphasis on the detrimental effects of unions on our economy. Are you chortling, and rubbing your hands together with glee? Union membership is at its lowest level in sixty years, and still falling sharply. Only thirteen and one half percent of our nation's work force are union members, and many of those are members of low paid, low benefit service unions. Do you fervently believe that if we can finally just get rid of the remnants of those pesky unions we will all return to a prosperous middle class?

I suppose that 13.5% of the workers are a heck of a lot more powerful than a fool like me ever recognized. Kinda gives the motto "In union is strength" an awesome respect that I had not recognized until you began to expound upon your theories.

Gotta say I feel a whole lot better now that I am beginning to understand your twin dogmas, bust all unions, and free of taxation the big corporations as well as the very rich. Especially as things are pretty much in place to make all that happen real soon like.

Thanks again for relieving me of worry. I hope you are right for the sake of my grand kids.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Feb 6, 2011, at 1:25 AM

So X-ray, the middle class is rapidly shrinking because we are not giving enough tax breaks to the very rich, and big corporations? Then if we just remove all taxes from the rich, and from the big corporations the middle class will grow again, but faster than ever? Is that how you figure it works?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Feb 6, 2011, at 12:19 AM

Republicans once again stand up for the little guy in their traditional way.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/republi...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Feb 6, 2011, at 12:10 AM

nanadot... LOL in your horror of a world you must see evil in everything, everything is either 100% evil or 100% good..... too bad reality is not that...

In your continued bashing of big evil businesses, maybe you would like to explain why GOVERNMENT imposed extremely high corporate taxation is not the cause of businesses and jobs leaving our shores, or how artifically inflated wages like the whole prevailing wage idea does not reduce our competitiveness, or how legacy costs of high dollar benefits and retirement packages for Union members does not price our businesses out of competition...

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Feb 5, 2011, at 10:14 PM

If we had more people like this guy we would be a much better nation...

http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%...

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Feb 5, 2011, at 10:11 PM

Obama, at least his speech writers... have tried to claim Obama was Lincoln, JFK, MLK, and now they are trying to compare him to President Reagan. I also read where he has been reading up on Reagon.... Well here is where he should be starting.....

From Reagan's first inaugural address: "We are a nation that has a government--not the other way around. And this makes us special among the nations of the Earth. Our government has no power except that granted it by the people. It is time to check and reverse the growth of government, which shows signs of having grown beyond the consent of the governed."

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Feb 5, 2011, at 10:08 PM

Nanadot,

Your exactly right because what some people dont realize is that our tax money goes to lots of people that help our communities and creates jobs here in the U.S.

I would much rather have my tax dollars going to those who build and maintain roads, health care workers, police officers and firefighters, teachers, elderly, disabled, and underemployeed.

Instead we have our tax dollars going to oil companies, wars, bank bailouts, and the rich.

If we take the wars and the tax cuts to the rich out of the equation for the last 10 years we would cut our Federal deficit in half.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Sat, Feb 5, 2011, at 1:50 PM

Don't forget start Feb 10 you can buy your Ronald Reagen forever stamps. Who would be a better pick to be the first president on a forever stamp. Oh and you can buy them now at 44 cents before they go up.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Feb 5, 2011, at 11:10 AM

Empress: Thanks for the addendum...I think. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Feb 5, 2011, at 10:57 AM

hey Nanadot... how about the entitlements in the budget... forcable confiscation of PROPERTY from the tax payer where the confiscated funds are put in the spider web of government inefficiency and red tape and fraud waste and abuse...

19.63% for social security, 16.3% for unemployment and welfare, 12.79% for medicare, 8.2% for medicaid and schip,

DOD is only about 18.74% of the budget.... 2010 budget submitted by Obama...

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Feb 5, 2011, at 9:21 AM

nanadot.... if you actually paid attention I ALWAYS say that the whole special interest group influence works for BOTH sides of the aisle equally.... you are just really good at only being able to see one side... LOL

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Feb 5, 2011, at 9:03 AM

"In the last two months, they've lowered the unemployment rate by almost a full point with only 139,000 new jobs created. We're being spun like a top. They have just subtracted 2.2 million jobs from the universe of available jobs. That's how you get the unemployment rate down to 9%: Don't count people who have given up looking for work. If you add those people in, the unemployment rate went up over 17%." -Rush

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Feb 5, 2011, at 6:14 AM

Cheese I don't think you are my brother but that's ok. Your link for global warming is very biased because they are solely supported by private and corporate donations. There is no reference as from where they get their information. So would they publish anything that is not pro global warming? But yet you slam Fox News and others for being biased. We have a word for that.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Feb 5, 2011, at 5:46 AM

nanadot if you would take of your liberal blinders and dig a little more you would find multiple places and groups and organizations where Soros funnels his money to get around the various laws...

Sorry but a simple up or down vote is not simple when the peer pressure of standing beside your other workers can be incredible. Sorry, the US has secret ballots for its PResident.. secret ballots for union issues should be no different

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Feb 5, 2011, at 1:36 AM

And I did not even go into the huge wages that those guys working at building the Hospital in Trenton are making.... the numbers would make your head spin..... anywhere from a 15-46% increase from what a local contractor would bid on a job.

People in Marshall, at least on this site, are continually harping about there not being any new jobs and what jobs do come up are done by outside contractors and the local ones dont ever get the jobs... well this is the MAIN reason why

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Feb 5, 2011, at 1:34 AM

News... too bad Unions no longer work FOR The employees but for their own power and greed... IF they were truly FOR the employee they would not be doing things like continually trying to force people to have to PUBLICALLY vote for unions in the work place, and they would DEMAND secret balloting so as to ensure no coercion of the employees would occur. I could go on.. they pressured the government into the whole prevailing wage debacle that only increases the cost to complete a government project by an enormous amount... artificial inflation of wages, therefore cost to complete the project, ROBBERY of the tax payer, when local contractors could complete the jobs while paying wages that are appropriate to the local economy, with employees that are willing to work for those wages and also stimulating the LOCAL economy, not the economy of the nearest BIG CITY where the union workers come from.

In Trenton they are building a new hospital. I was talking with some guys there and they are Union workers... from simple laborers to metal and concrete workers to every body... I am not saying that they do not do hard work but there are so many stupid rules, where a concrete finisher is not allowed to help set forms or a carpenter finisher is not allowed to help a framer and therefore you have a bunch of people sitting idle all while drawing the hyper-inflated union wages...

Yes there is a need for Unions, or at least organized workers in bigger businesses, or workers in general. But with OSHA and other laws like the child labor laws the work places are fairly safe and rules are in place to make sure people are not mistreated... all the Unions are doing now is creating another layer of competition reducing cost to operating a business in the US and thus harming the economy by losing jobs to over seas places that dont have unions and dont have the huge corporate tax cost and other things that we have in the US..

I see the need for an organized group of employees to protect against corporate greed but I also see the need for those unions to have common sense... greed exists amongst the Union bosses and Admin just as it exists in any other institution and it is equally as bad... greed for money and power

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Feb 5, 2011, at 1:02 AM

nanadot... lol GOOD JOB!!! way to twist reality. The same can be said for the circumstances during Bush's years... Katrina, hurricanes, terrorist attacks and EVERY SINGLE thing mother nature through at the world... YET the media STILL questioned Bush and not one peep towards Obama... LOL

LAME

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Feb 5, 2011, at 12:48 AM

news... Obama increased the power of the Patriot ACt and is working with Google and other companies to SPY on Americans.. LOL not sure what you are whining about.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Feb 5, 2011, at 12:45 AM

Cheesehead... how about Obama... you forgot Obama... "Obama still received $884,000 from the oil and gas industry during the 2008 campaign, more than any other lawmaker except his Republican opponent, Sen. John McCain"

This is what Obama got from BP... you know, the evil big oil company that destroyed the gulf AFTER Obama gave them safety awards... LOL

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/051...

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/...

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Feb 5, 2011, at 12:43 AM

You all read about the SECRET (as opposed to the OPEN AND HONEST) deal Obama made with Russia to betray England's trust and secrets regarding their military Trident

"Information about every Trident missile the US supplies to Britain will be given to Russia as part of an arms control deal signed by President Barack Obama next week."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnew...

BUT he bows dictators?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Feb 5, 2011, at 12:38 AM

nanadot... you forgot George Soros and GE .... just to mention a FEW of the liberal progressives... come on be fair... either bash em all or dont bash any

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Feb 5, 2011, at 12:35 AM

Obama this and Obama that!

-- Posted by cheesehead on Fri, Feb 4, 2011, at 11:47 PM

SO read this article and tell me that the main stream media is NOT biased in its treatment of Obama and the Democrats!!!

http://www.mrc.org/bmi/articles/2010/Gas...

-- Posted by mrxray on Fri, Feb 4, 2011, at 10:48 PM

rr,

This link is for you my brother! It is some charts and graphs you can check out.

http://globalwarming.com/2010/05/statist...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Fri, Feb 4, 2011, at 3:53 PM

Cheese isn't it supposed to cause warming too?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Feb 4, 2011, at 2:00 PM

Does anyone want to know who in congress received the most money from big oil?

Top Recipients, 2009-2010

Candidate Office Amount

Lincoln, Blanche (D-AR) Senate $430,600

Vitter, David (R-LA) Senate $343,950

Portman, Rob (R-OH) $276,208

Blunt, Roy (R-MO) House $269,400

Pearce, Steve (R-NM) $264,517

-- Posted by cheesehead on Fri, Feb 4, 2011, at 12:28 PM

rr,

If you would do some research you would see that global warming causes increases in precipitation also.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Fri, Feb 4, 2011, at 12:27 PM

Discrimination by unions

http://www.unionfacts.com/articles/crime...

Schemes involving bribery, extortion, deprivation of union rights by violence, and embezzlement used by early racketeers are still employed to abuse the power of unions.

-- U.S. Department of Labor Office of Inspector General, 2004

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Feb 4, 2011, at 11:23 AM

News you preaching to the choir I already knew that, contrary to what you assume. Did you ever work in management?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Feb 4, 2011, at 11:15 AM

"The planet has a fever."

--Al Gore

How many sitting under all this snow believe that?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Feb 4, 2011, at 11:08 AM

Sorry news but you are being severely misled by the propoganda of the unions.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Feb 4, 2011, at 11:06 AM

"Kristen Schaal: Rape Redefinition Protects Americans From 'Money Rape' (VIDEO)"

http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com...

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Feb 4, 2011, at 2:54 AM

Yes Cheese,

I think there are a lot of folks out there who are beginning to remember that Fox News and their fellow travellers, the Republican Party, are the same folks that gave us 2 regretable major wars -- Afganistan and Iraq -- based on lies, spying on Americans without a warrant, and the economic depression which began in December 2007 as result of 6 years of Republican control of the White House with a lot of help from the Republican Congress. _-- and Fox News.

I guess what ol' Abe said still remains true -- you can't fool all the people, all the time.

Americans aren't stupid -- not by a longshot -- and eventually they wake up to who their real enemy is.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Feb 4, 2011, at 12:12 AM

News,

Fox news is looking more and more like a big joke. Glenn Beck and Hannity are proof that some right wingers will believe anything they are told. The good news is that polls are showing that Fox news are losing a big portion of their viewers on the left and the middle because of things like this. Their is even a poll showing that even a small percentage of Republicans have turned off Fox news due their misleading propaganda.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Thu, Feb 3, 2011, at 11:55 PM

"Fox News producers scripted 'socialism' outcry, email shows"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/02/fox-n...

...and just another proof that Fox News leads you around by your nose.

So how long will you let Fox News con you?

At what point do you say "enough is enough -- no more of that right-wing wacko, conservative propaganda for me -- I will stick with facts instead of inuendo for now on"?

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 3, 2011, at 11:06 PM

This is the story of Tedwell, Ted.

A wonderful man many have said.

When his next door neighbor was in a tight,

Ted was at his door day, and night.

A few blocks away was a parallel plight,

that poor soul's yard was a terrible sight.

Tedwell drove by, and rendered a sneer,

"there are too many bums that live around here".

Note: I know no one named Ted Tedwell, and this poem is not intended as a slight toward anyone with that name.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Feb 3, 2011, at 9:53 PM

I really do not understand those that grouse about the minimum wage. Surely they know that it is now at its lowest ebb in its history. It is no where near what it was when it started. The so called "good jobs" at ten dollars an hour, in equivalent dollars are what the minimum wage once was.

We now have millions working for less than what the minimum wage was originally intended to provide for, and still that is too much for some people.

It is amazing how heartless some people can be to their fellow Americans. I would like to excuse it as ignorance, but sadly I see more evidence that it is just mean spirited.

http://www.epi.org/economic_snapshots/en...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Feb 3, 2011, at 9:25 PM

rr3yv0

you seem a bit confused as to what union is and what its purpose is.

Let me help you out here.

A union is comprised of the workers at a plant or place of business acting collectively as one. Rather than negotiating pay and benefits individually -- in which case employers will offer the lowest possible wage they can and say take it or leave it, unions are comprised of the workers at that workplace that have democratically elected to have a union and then democratically decided which union they wish to have to represent them as their bargining agent. All contract negotiation teams are always comprised of workers from the workplace -- often elected to the negotiation team -- and they also include the union stewards -- who are also workers at that plant and usually elected to the steward position -- and of course there are union offcials present to assist in the negotiations.

The purpose of a union -- which means the workers at the plant acting as one -- in addition to ensuring the workers have the opportunity to negotiate with the employer, is to protect the union member from unfair labor management practices and to ensure that management is following the contract and all labor laws to the letter. It is the job of the union to make sure the employee receives all hearings available to him or her and to take those matters in which there is money or termination involved, as well as a breach of contract, in which management refuses to meet its contractual obligations to arbitration be decided by a neutral arbitrator -- often times former Federal Labor Court Judges and experts on labor contract law and Federal Labor law.

The union agent is not a boss of the union member. In fact, its the opposite. The union business agent and all the officers of a union work for the employee. The worker is the boss. It is the workers who decide democratically who the union officers are -- yep those boys have to be elected to those positions by the workers. In addition, a union has specific legal obligations to those workers. Unions can be held leagally liable for failing to ensure the rights of the worker. A union that does not defend its union worker all the way can very quickly find itself in court for failing in its fiduciary duty to the worker.

I hope this clears up the misunderstandings and misconceptions you seem to have regarding collective bargaining.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 3, 2011, at 8:51 PM

rr3yv0

If you live in an area where the employers have conspired to keep wages low by all or most of the employers in that area offering only minimum wage then minimum wage is all you will earn -- unless you organize your fellow workers into a single, collective bargining agent -- a union -- with the decisions being made by you and your co-workers and with you and your co-workers negotiationg the rules, wages, benefits, and diciplinary proceedures, and having the final say in any contract that is negotiated.

Yes there are millions of workers in the USA who are only offered minimum wage by all the employers in their area no matter what the skilled worker level.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 3, 2011, at 8:26 PM

News I am well aware of what the unions are. What about the union worker that really does need to be fired but the union doesn't have the courage to say so? They will fight for his/her job back whether management is right or wrong. Is that really right? The unions should encourage their workers to be the best at what they do because they get the best pay for what they do. By and large I don't see that. I have seen unions force companies into bankruptcy because they won't concede on benefits or wages. Who does that benefit? News the unions are like the politicians if it comes down to them or the workers who will be thrown under the bus?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Feb 3, 2011, at 8:18 PM

You know News you think the Federal Government is the answer to everything. If I lived on the coast and they told me a hurricane was coming I am leaving and I am not going to wait for the Federal Government to rescue me. If they tell me a tornado is coming I am going to take cover I will not wait for the Federal Government to tell me to. If they tell me flood waters are likely to overtake my house then I am going to higher ground I will not wait for the Federal Government to tell me to. They may have every right for the Federal Government to assist them after the disaster but good gosh man help thyself, get out of dodge. How hard is that to understand. This is the very reason we have a bunch of politicians that think they know what is better for us then we do. Keeping the masses dependent and dumbed down means votes and power.

No News people are not forced to work for minimum wage. They may have to start there, I had plenty of minimum wage jobs but they can choose to do better or they can choose to stay where they are. Some are quit content to stay in a minimum wage job so people like you will feel sorry for them. I could still be working for minimum wage but I chose not too. Its all about choices mate.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Feb 3, 2011, at 8:08 PM

"Census shows big gains for U.S. minorities

The growth in the Hispanic population is expected to have political implications"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41410511/ns/...

Food for thought for the conservatives who still think they can push minorities around. Its a whole new ballgame now. 2012 should be an interesting year lol lol lol...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 3, 2011, at 6:46 PM

rr3yv0

Yeah that is it, blame the folks who lived in New Orleans for what happened to them lol lol lol...smooth move lol lol lol.

Yes they had every right to expect the Federal Government to assist them prior to Katrina hitting. They pay their taxes too and they have every right to benefit of those tax dollers they earned and paid to the Federal Government.

Sure the Republicans in Washington -- who were in charge of all 3 branches of Government -- could have evacuated the entire city. After all, Canberra had no problem evacuating the entire coastline of Queensland and the Northern Territory -- and with far less dollars than Wahshington has. So its not like it can't be done -- we know the facts show it can be done -- but Republican Washington refused to do anything significant and made no effort to evacuate the folks in New Orleans -- or to even rescue them after Katrina hit.

If a Nation of only 22 million people can do it --surely a country of 320 million people can do it.

...or maybe the Republicans just didn't care about the folks in New Orleans because those folks are mostly poor and primarily members of minority groups. Maybe the GOP is 80% white for a reason. Maybe these are not just "coincidences" as many Republicans might like us to believe.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 3, 2011, at 6:42 PM

Yes rr3yv0,

There are folks -- millions of them -- who are forced to work for minimum wage.

Entire States like Louisiana and Missippi have large populations of employers that only offer minimum wage and comprise the largest percentage of employers in those states.

I guess one could argue that workers could refuse the position due to the minimum wage they offer, but starvation is not really a viable choice for most workers. So when all or most of the employers in an area offer nothing but minimum wage --even for skilled jobs -- the workers are not left with much of a choice.

But there is one other choice -- unions.

Union shop employees tend to make far more than minimum wage, have much better benefits and working conditions, and the workers who are protected by a union contract tend to paid a fair living wage with which they can support their families, and are protected by the contract and by the Federal Unfair Labor Practice Act. Thus union workers are not forced to submit to the "employment at will doctrine" which states that a worker can be let go for good reason, bad reason, or even no reason at all -- unless they are protected by a labor contract via a union. With a union -- the worker has specific contractual and legislated rights he or she does not have in a non-union shop. When a worker in in a union he or she has a contract with the company that thet company must comply with and which is enforced by the Federal Department of Labor. The unions won't stand for the workers getting jerked around by the employers who have conspired to bring all wages in an area down to minimum wage. So its not surprising to see the lowest possible wages being the norm in those states that have attempted to all but outlaw unions.

For the worker...unions are the only solution to corporate tyrrany.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 3, 2011, at 6:27 PM

We get it. You don't like Obama. Take a breath already.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Feb 3, 2011, at 5:21 PM

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/021...

This one makes me laugh because of the ineptness of the people writing the statements for the Obama's and their complete unattachment to REAL people in REAL places.....

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Feb 3, 2011, at 3:51 PM

You all read the news from South Dakota? They have purposed a law that would MANDATE all South Dakotians to purchas and own a weapon of their choice and learn how to use it and maintain it... I can think of many reasons that this a good idea. We might have an influx of terrorists and illegals across our northern UNSECURE Border, Personal protection, A militia of citizens if chaos erupts world-wide, reduction of accidental injuries and deaths by gun shots because more people would know how to safely use a gun, a greater deterrent to criminals who would know beforehand that ALL homes had guns and the home owners knew how to use the weapons.

Now this was not the point of purposing the law, the point was to show how a mandate for health insurance is also unconstitutional.... and it is showing the hypocritical ideals that leftists/liberals/progressives have in that they will say Obamacare is constitutional in some twisted and convoluted way that tries to show it will make health care cheapter, CONTRARY to all the evidence from CBO and Medicare/medicaid actuaries (remember the article recently published about this) but then they will turn around and cry about this mandate about gun ownership is unconstitutional because it forces every person to PURCHASE a gun.... just as Obama forces every person to PURCHASE a government mandated insurance policy

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/south-d...

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Feb 3, 2011, at 3:48 PM

here the link for you News... LOL

http://ethicsalarms.com/2011/02/03/erodi...

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Feb 3, 2011, at 3:40 PM

hmmmmm It has been what? a week? since Obama appointed his newest addtion to his communist collusion between Obama admin and BIG EVIL corporations... Jeff Immelt of GE and NOW EPA releases its new regs and rules and guess who gets an exemption? GE... go figure... NOW how do we twist this to blame big oil, republicans and Bush?

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Feb 3, 2011, at 3:38 PM

Bush and the Republican leadership in Congress were well aware of hurricane Katrin days before it hit New Orleans -- and did nothing.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Feb 2, 2011, at 11:59 PM

I think the locals knew it was coming too. Why didn't they have or execute an evacuation plan instead of waiting on Washington? Proof that Washington cannot solve problems but are capable of creating them. Why did we have the incompetent response to the oil spill? Why did we refuse help from so many countries that had sufficient equipment to deal with such disasters? I guess that could have been Bush's fault too.

You know news you blaming Bush is like some people complaining about spending 3 hours to clean their driveway evidently before the city plowed the street and then complain because they had to do it again. Whiner! I was glad to get up yesterday morning and see the highway had been plowed. After I shoveled 5 feet of snow(pushed up by the snowplow) for about 50 ft and wide enough for my pick-up I made it to the highway and then it was smooth sailing. I guess I could blame that on Bush too. You know someone from Washington should have plowed my drive. I guess I knew it was coming I could have evacuated. Just like any disaster most people just deal with it but all you hear are the complaints you don't hear about the one's that quietly just deal with it and move on. Better quit before it sounds like I'm whining.

I'm certainly glad that you are satisfied with the Australian government and the response to the cyclone. Sounds like they had a plan in place to execute when a disaster hit not after the fact. Sounds like they knew it was coming and took action, good for them.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Feb 3, 2011, at 12:25 PM

Nana if there was no minimum wage who would be forced to work for less then something that don't exist? I have answered your question Nana you just don't like the answer. Is anyone being forced to work for minumum wage now?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Feb 3, 2011, at 11:22 AM

Thanks Nan,

Yes we are well out of the way here in Sydney. its kind of the equivalent of being in Boston when a hurricane hits Miami...pretty far away.

However, here in Australia if one city or area is in need of help, we all pitch in. We have given generously to help out with the recovery from the floods and we expect to do our part with Yasi as well.

Its been truely amazing to watch how the Australians carefully made sure the entire impact region of Queensland and the Northern Territory were completely evacuated long before Yasi hit. There have been no casulaties so far and no injuries -- not one. Compare that to a much smaller hurricane named Katrina. Bush and the Republican leadership in Congress were well aware of hurricane Katrin days before it hit New Orleans -- and did nothing. And just like when Bush was warned that Bin Ladin was poised to attack some American skyscrapers with hijacked aircraft then he did nothing and went on vacation. Those Republicans are pretty good at doing nothing meaningful aren't they lol lol lol.

Anyway, it looks like we managed to come through this one ok.

I hope ya'll are ok up there. We have been keeping a close eye on the snowstorm and freezing temps there. I worry a lot about Mom and Dad...they are old...and you know how these nasty Winter storms always seem to kill off some old folks. I don't want my parents to be the next headline lol lol lol. Stay indoors, stay warm, eat some good food, and enjoy some nice television.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Feb 2, 2011, at 11:59 PM

Hey rr,

You know what the Fedualist Kings like our old buddy King George III used to say don't you?

They said "FEUDALISM IS BOSS!!!!|"

Of course we don't hear folks say that one much anymore.

I wonder why?

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Feb 2, 2011, at 8:30 PM

Nan,

I would hate to be the nail under your hammer lol lol lol...

'cause you always hit it right on the head.

Great links Nan.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Feb 2, 2011, at 8:25 PM

"Hundreds of liberal activists pledge to oppose Obama in 2012"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/02/promi...

...and rightly so. If Obama chooses to continue to govern as a conservative, he can forget our support, and I see nothing to indicate he intends to abandon those conservative policies that are running our Nation into the ground.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Feb 2, 2011, at 3:47 PM

Evading the question I see!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Feb 2, 2011, at 3:20 PM

Now Nana it had everything to do with your statement regarding someone else's sterling example of the lack of education. I just figured yours was an example of excellence in education to be able to make that judgement. You know inquiring minds want to know.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Feb 2, 2011, at 2:12 PM

I wonder Nana did you have a problem with GE being reclassified as a bank to get TARP funds?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Feb 2, 2011, at 1:37 PM

Should I take that as a NO!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Feb 2, 2011, at 1:30 PM

Just wonderin' Nana would your comments be a sterling example of our excellence in education?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Feb 2, 2011, at 12:04 PM

Cheesehead I appreciate your concern and will take your opinion into consideration for whatever it is worth.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Feb 2, 2011, at 9:55 AM

for thousands of years people have used the 'threat' of muslim invaders to go conquer. they got us once, big whoop

-- Posted by ladyjustice on Tue, Feb 1, 2011, at 10:52 PM

A terrorist attack on Goldman Sachs. We could name it Terror on Wall St. Maybe then they would go after Koch Industries. They wouldn't be crying about big Government then.

I'm glad to see the Obsession with Obama continues.LOL LOL LOL

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Feb 1, 2011, at 9:22 PM

news... so Obama is proving to be just another Carter when it comes to foreign policy.. LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Feb 1, 2011, at 8:08 PM

rr,

I think thats a little inconsiderate to post Islamists will come for us unless you mean Wall St and in that case who cares?

The author that wrote the article you posted is a racist and a Bigot a merely puts his opinion in place of facts. I'm not familar with the site you posted but this is one you should probably kick to the curb.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Feb 1, 2011, at 7:48 PM

The Fall Of The Strongmen

Eventually Islamists will come to power and wage war against us. It's up to us whether they win or not.

http://www.eurasiareview.com/opinion/opi...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Feb 1, 2011, at 6:27 PM

Susan Collins, Queen of Denial

Egypt coming to America. And somebody actually votes for these people.

http://www.redstate.com/neil_stevens/201...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Feb 1, 2011, at 6:07 PM

Obamacare Meets Its Death Panel

"Judge Vinson's ruling ultimately tells a group of people used to saying 'yes we can' that, in fact, 'no, you can't.' "

http://www.redstate.com/erick/2011/02/01...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Feb 1, 2011, at 6:04 PM

Oh great Eric and I have a wonderful link to post that may be perfect for the occassion.

"Egypt President Mubarak announces plan to retire in Sept."

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/02/egypt...

It looks like America has lost another one of its colonies lol lol lol...and many more to come...

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Feb 1, 2011, at 5:55 PM

It's a new month and a new forum!

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Tue, Feb 1, 2011, at 6:38 AM


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