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Monday, May 30, 2016

Speak Out February 1 to April 1, 2011

Tuesday, February 1, 2011

The Marshall Democrat-News invites readers to share their views and questions on any issue. Open discussions are often useful and enlightening. Criticism is acceptable as an important part of public conversations, but we expect everyone to treat others with respect. Experience suggests it is best not to post comments while angry. We reserve the right to delete comments that we think include personal attacks, are disrespectful, threatening, obscene or in other ways objectionable. Anyone who repeatedly violates this policy will be banned from participating in our forums.

Past Speak Out conversations

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another newsacross bio? boy that never gets old....

-- Posted by wheresthelove on Fri, Apr 1, 2011, at 7:44 AM

Eric, no foolin' it's April 1.

Would you give us a new forum? March marched onto February, w/o notice.

Astonishingly cold winter--tons and tons of snow. Now with 85 degrees in Missouri, spring must have been lost in a snow drift and is now floating down the creeks and rivers.

Are the pear trees on the square blooming?

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Fri, Apr 1, 2011, at 12:38 AM


For the Record and to clear up any misgivings you may have about me and my connection to Marshall...

1.) I was born in KCMO and grew up half my life in Marshall including moving back there as an Adult and working and living there for many years before I ever moved to Australia.

2.) My family goes back 5 generations in Marshall and we have owned property in or around Marshall for all of those 5 generations -- and we pay our taxes.

3.) My Father and all his brothers and sisters grew up in the same house I did up there on Montegue Hill, went to school in Marshall, lived and loved in Marshall, and served as part of Marshall's contribution to WWI and WWII. Most of their spouses are also from the Marshall area.

4.) If you go up to the Court House and go in the North Door you may find they still have the most decorated Marshall Veterans of WWII listed along with their medals earned on a board just inside the door. I did call and ask before the remodling if they would be keeping that list of distiguished Marshall veterans there. They said at that time that indeed they would never remove that from the Court House for any reason. Go on up there and have a look at my Uncle Stan's contribution. Its ok mate, he is the only one up there with the name Stanley. Go have a look at his contribution.

Yeah mate, I have a strong and permanent connection with Marshall. Don't think that just because I set my boots in Australia sometimes that somehow means I am not a Marshallite. That is something no place and no person can ever deny me.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 10:42 PM

news across,

I am sorry for your loss, but I would like for the political forum which the editor so kindly created to be used for politics. It really unnerves me that when I try to get to read a little local news, I am bombarded by the political viewpoints of people that don't live in or seem to have any connections to Marshall. It appears all you talk about on here is politics. I do believe they have forums and things out there just for that purpose, if I am not mistaken. Shoot, there might even be one for ex pats like yourself.

-- Posted by Owl12345 on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 10:24 PM

I would think that if even a small percentage of these guys were terrorists then they would probaby know how to shoot rockets and mortars.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 10:22 PM


You may want to consider the following in your assesment of the Libyan Rebels and our involvement with these folks.

1.) "Less than four years before Libya's popular opposition movement took up arms and revolted against Moammar Gadhafi with enthusiastic U.S. backing, anti-Gadhafi fighters chose another tactic to hit back at the hated dictator: they joined al Qaeda and tried to kill American soldiers in Iraq, according to U.S. documents."


2.) "Libyan rebel commander admits his fighters have al-Qaeda links"


3.) "Libya: the West and al-Qaeda on the same side"


4.) "Al Qaeda offers aid to rebels in Libya"


5.) "Washington may arm Al-Qaeda-linked Libyan rebels"


Mate, my nephew, a US Army Staff Sgt was recently killed in a war launched to defend us against Al Quaeda in Afghanistan. He died of combat wounds. The Army named a building after him, gave him a whole bunch of medals and ribbons, paid for a heck of a fancy military funeral, and gave my Sister, my niece (his sister), and my Mother flags.

So...even while we still have soldiers in harms way fighting Al Quaeda in Iraq and Afghanistan, now we are going give Al Quaeda in Libya full military air support (including massive bombing of Libya's capital city) and arm them (directly or indirectly)?

I wish someone would tell me again why I will never be able to hug my nephew again or tell him his Mother sends her love.

I wish someone would tell me again why he died and what he died for.

Surely he didn't die so we could assist the enemy he was fighting just because they are in Libya and not Afghanistan.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 10:08 PM

Did anyone read Matt Schofield's opnion piece in the Kansas City Star last week, "No Fly Zone Is also a Don't Boat Zone"? He suggested that some European countries - like France - don't want more Muslim refugees to add to their already large Muslim population, since Muslims don't assimilate to a culture that native Europeans are proud of. A quote: "Italians warned that as many as 300,000 north Africans might soon be boating across the genial Mediterranean ..." The no-fly could be an attempt to give those north Africans a reason to stay home, according to Schofield.

-- Posted by former editor on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 9:59 PM

Back in the day

For the record, I do not and will never support any war or act of war.

I do not believe in violent resistance at all.

I believe passive resitance is the best form of resistance.

It certainly was enough to bring down the biggest empire history ever knew -- the British Empire.

It was also enough to break the back of Jim Crow in the United States.

We have no business attacking any nation that is no direct threat to our national security. Any act of war that is not defensive is offensive...a war of agression. In this case, I believe we are attempting to add Libya to the list of other oil rich nations we are attempting to colonize.

I would not have supported us attacking Egypt nor do I support us attacking Libya. I have never supported our Nation committing immoral acts of war on 3rd World nations.

I hope that clears things up as regards my view of this cowardly act of war we have perpetrated.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 8:38 PM

News across,

So if you disagee with the handling of Libya then you probably agree the way the President handled Egypt? How exactly do you think this should be handled? Should we investigate further to see who exactly the rebels are? What about just giving them arms to make it a fair fight?

Im kind of in the middle of all this on what hand we have to stop innocent people from dying, but yet we dont wont to escalate the fighting. To me it seems like most of the people calling for action at first were only wanting this when they thought nothing was gonna be done and now they are against that. If that the concensus opinion or is that just one political party or the other playing politics?

-- Posted by Back in the day on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 7:45 PM


In my previous comment I meant to say

"Saying they are just a little bit Al Quaeda does not change my opinion about them.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 7:24 PM


I don't believe in supporting Al Quaeda...even if they only comprise a percentage of the rebels in Libya.

Saying they are just a little big Al Quaeda does not change my opinion about them. Nor does that make it ok for us to commit acts of war against Libya.

We have no business attacking 3rd World Countries that are no direct threat to our National Security.

...and yet another good reason...


-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 6:41 PM


Yeah me too.

Unfortunately, politics touches every aspect of our life and any subject as important as war -- which means our kids lives are at stake (I just lost my nephew -- killed by Taliban bullets in Afghanistan while trying to get all his men into a helicopter in a hasty retreat from battle) is something folks prefer to discuss.

So yeah...I guess given the fact that we just committed more acts of war against a 3rd World Nation that never attacked us, never threatened us, and could not attack us directly anyway, and may get thousands of our kids killed if we don't stop Big O, will probably make its way to the front page.

After all...our kids lives matter...even if some folks think our kids are nothing but fodder for their wars of aggression.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 6:37 PM


Why exactly would Al Qaeda be asking for our help?

Just because a small percentage of Foreign fighters in Iraq(less than 1/5)had links to Al Qaeda doesnt mean we should let them all be slaughtered. You know just as well as anybody that in these countries that have high unemployment rates they will do thing to feed their families that a typical American wouldn't do.

A good example is the Tea Party. Most of them are quite radical but they should by no means represent the normal American. You cant sterotype the people of any country because of the fringe elements that are involved.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 6:37 PM

I really wish that the politics would stay in the politics blog....

-- Posted by Owl12345 on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 6:25 PM


Looks like you are swallowing the hype.

Remember mate, the folks demonizinng Gadaffi are the same folks who demonized Saddam.

Its part of their engagment process. The big media collude with the governing adminstration in Washington in order to tug at our heartstrings and cause us to support their invasion of another oil rich nation they dont't yet have under their control.

Don't believe the hype mate.

Libya is engaged in a civil war between forces of Al Queada (the rebels) who are waging a war upon the majority of people in Libya who are supporting their Government.

You can find attrocities on both sides of any civil war -- if you just look hard enough.

So, let's hear about the attrocities being committed by Al Qhaeda in Libya (the rebels).

Wow...such silence...maybe we just don't really want to know about the scumbags we are supporting in Libya...maybe we don't want to know the truth.

We have no business attacking or invading 3rd World countries that are no threat to us (the ground invasion is next if We the People don't stop big O from his desired conquests on behalf of big oil).

Its time We the People draw a line in the sand...NO MORE WARS!!!!

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 6:19 PM

Yes, yes CheeseHead I am aware of all those things, but you miss my point. What makes you ignore the possibility that similar actions have been perpetrated by the side we are aligned with? Surely you would think that in the heat of war there would be abhorrent things done by both sides. I have never known of a war wherein that did not occur. Doesn't it seem just a bit curious that we have not heard of a single atrocity by the side we support? Could it miraculously be that they are all pure of heart, and Gadafi's supporters are all evil? How can you not smell a rat in this situation?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 6:18 PM


Here are a few sites about the crisis in Libya.

The soldiers want to defend their honor by killing the woman they raped.


Women and children targeted along with those injured in the hospital and peaceful protesters killed.


"Muammar Gaddafi's security forces are firing on Libyan citizens and killing scores simply because they're demanding change and accountability


Here are some more details of the rape by Gadaffi's forces.



-- Posted by cheesehead on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 3:28 PM

Yes,I read that article on the Speedway. I was well acquainted with both ,Mikels, Corpus,everyone knew them! If i'm not mistaken Junior is dead now! But i'm not for sure ,(hear say). Thanks anyway!

-- Posted by Jo on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 3:08 PM

Cheesehead I would like to know where you have attained intelligence that gives you your certainty that you have all the facts. Would you mind sharing your sources? I have not been able to nail it down even going beyond the corporate establishment war mongers MSNBC, CNN, and Fox who ramp our lust for war all day, and all night. They are selling our invasion just as hard as they push the products featured every few minutes between the interminable war sales pitch.

Hey what is going on in Afghanistan? The American mind set that has allowed us to forget a war before it is over is astounding. Not a word of it on those cable propaganda pitchers.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 12:55 PM

Thats silly because the Government forces in Libya are raping women, killing children and civilians,shooting at those going in and out of hospitals, blowing up schools, gas stations, and anything in the way. So, I wouldn't put a price on life as some seem to care more about money than life.

Until the is proof that us providing air support or giving weapons to the freedom fighters will cost more civilian lives than it will save we should all support actions to help the people of Libya.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 12:10 PM


What price do we put on human life? Apparently $550 Million as of the speech the other night, since that is what we have spent so far taking lives.

-- Posted by Philemon on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 11:54 AM

CH we have no way of knowing what the rebels are doing concerning atrocities. It is in the percieved best interests of our controllers to tell us only the bad things done by government forces in Libya. Do not be sucked in, it is far too soon to have forgotten the lessons taught us by the Iraq War build up.

I do not believe that the families of dead civilians in Libya, whether killed by government troops, rebel troops, or U. S. bombs, bullets, and missiles, grieve any differently from each other, nor are any less filled with rage at the proximate cause of death.

Here is a news site that you may be already reading, but if you are not you may find valuable. http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 11:03 AM

No one has yet to answer to question on what price they put on human life?

These people in Lybia are just like those in Wisconsin they dont want to be ruled by Authoritarian Governments. If this was just a civil war then it wouldn't be the government with tanks against civilians with machine guns that doesnt sound like a civil war to me. It sounds like oppression to me and if the freedom fighters were targeting civilians and raping women then this might be a different story, but there not they are targeting the Military not the people.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 10:28 AM

Note: And I also meant to say more fighters per capita, than any place else in the world.

Now I got it right.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 10:08 AM

Note: My previous comment should have said from August 2006, to August 2007.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 10:06 AM

Documents captured by the U. S. Military from Al Qaeda in Iraq show that Eastern Libya, the seat of the rebellion, provided far more foreign fighters in Iraq from August 2006 to August than any where else in the world.

Do we have a clue as to whom we have allied ourselves? Does it really matter? What is our end game? http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20110330/wl_...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 10:04 AM

For any of those who remain under the impression that we are just lobbing missiles, and dropping bombs in Libya that is not true.

We are directly firing bullets at the Kadafi soldiers on the ground every day. AC-130 flying gunships, and A-10 attack aircraft designed to strike enemy ground troops are replacing "boots on the ground", resulting in U. S. forces participating in battles as they occur. This is a civil war, in which we have chosen sides based on our economic interests.

Looking back, I wonder what would have been the turn of events, had Great Britain intervened on the same scale in our civil war? Their economic interests were with the Confederacy yet they held back. http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2011...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 9:36 AM

Rawanda, Darfur, wisconsin,

"Do we just stand by and let an authoritarian dictator kill those who have ask for help to overthrow him and they are willing to help?"

Yup, we do, unless they have something we want.

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 9:22 AM

Apparently we do just stand by Cheesehead. Ruwanda. There was no immediate material gain for us there. But then that wouldn't make a difference would it?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 8:47 AM

Can you really put a cost on human life? It seems that the U.S. and Britain are both are trying to figure out how the al qaeda are linked if at all to the rebels. We do know Gaddafi has links to state sponsored terrorism and he wants to slaughter those who oppose him.

Do we just stand by and let an authoritarian dictator kill those who have ask for help to overthrow him and they are willing to help which makes this situation unlike what is going on in Afganistan and Iraq.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 8:09 AM

Oklahoma Reader

Actually the US Government is actively doing something about Al Quaeda -- they are assisting them in Libya.

It was recently discovered and confirmed by a number of news services such as CNN and MSNBC that many of the Rebel groups in Libya are indeed active, veteran Al Queada terrorist group members.

Apparantly our National policy regarding Al Quaeda seems to be sometimes they are our enemy and sometimes they are our friends.

I sure hope my Sister, who gave her son's life in service to our Nation's War in Afghanistan, can understand that policy.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 1:48 AM

Our new little war in Libya thus far has a 550 million dollar price tag. Oh well anything to entertain us with something new, and to help us forget about the two wars we were already waging.

I know gang lets start another one for this summer when we tire of this one...how about Syria?

"Naw their oil reserves are about tapped out."

How about Yemen?

"Naw, we have already locked up their oil, well us, and European consortiums together."

But isn't that a place where Al Quaeda is hanging out?

"Who? Oh, Al Quaeda, darned if I hadn't forgotten about them. Naw, that doesn't matter anymore."

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Mar 31, 2011, at 12:19 AM

Oklahoma Reader

Yes Aussie Wife keeps me constantly informed to the progress of the man-made portion of the disaster -- the nuclear radiation.

She digs deep to find information about it and she has pretty much become an expert on it. She was already well versed on 3 Mile Island and Chernobal. What she is telling me she is finding out about this man-made portion of the disaster is pretty frightening. She says she believes this is much, much worse than even Chernobal.

We aren't watching that much on Libya anymore. We had already learned that the "rebels" only make up less than half the population of Libya and that the other half of the population is supporting the Libyan Government. That makes it a civil war. So when American War-Monger-in-Chief Obama attacked Libya -- an oil producing nation he and his capitalist big oil pals would love to get their hands on -- I was not a bit surprised. Attacking 3rd World Countries and stealing their oil seems to be the American way nowdays.

But we are keeping a good eye on the World threat in Japan.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Mar 30, 2011, at 10:24 PM

In case you missed it because our brand new war has crowded it from the "news", the recommended evacuation area in Japan has widened to a twenty five mile radius. That is outside the established evacuation zone. http://www.aolnews.com/2011/03/30/un-nuc...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Mar 30, 2011, at 10:10 PM


The other man's name was Junior Copas and if you would like to know more, there is a great website about the speedway: sportsmansspeedwaymarshall.com.

-- Posted by snoozes on Wed, Mar 30, 2011, at 9:04 PM

A shout out back to you Jo, and you too UpseDaisy. As I am a new to being seventy I can only hope that I am as sharp as you two five years from now.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Mar 29, 2011, at 11:16 PM

Yea Oklahoma,dads passion was birds too. When they went dad had 2 Bird Dogs, Sport & Lady. Both very good dogs. I think that's why dad liked to hunt with anyone that would like to watch his dogs hunt, too show off!

-- Posted by Jo on Tue, Mar 29, 2011, at 10:47 PM

Oklahoma: Dad and if i'm thinking right, was a guy named Cunningham, i think he was from shackelford and Mikel's,he and, Copus built the speedway. There was one other Udell Haines! NO your dad wasn't in the photo.If i'm right who he was!Just thought you might be interested ! I was going through some old Photo's from that time.The old Honky Tonk.

-- Posted by Jo on Tue, Mar 29, 2011, at 10:31 PM

OK Reader,

Agreed the oldtimers' thawed out on 28 March for sure. Have to post periodically so y'all won't worry, "we're pushing up daisies."

Your exchange w/Jo on hunting brought back memories of my Dad's love of quail hunting. That and the fact, I had just purchased his now antique gun from a pawnshop on Saturday, where it had ben sold by a thief. Words of wisdom: Photograph your cherished possessions and note identifying numbers.

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Tue, Mar 29, 2011, at 9:13 PM

Just a refresher -- the last spot chosen for the proposed new school building was not near the country club.

It was never implied that the reduced heating bill would balance the budget -- just that it would help make things less tight. It would be great if the savings from heating two old buildings meant that you had to lay off fewer staff and/or teachers or buy less textbooks for the students.

And yes, the taxes would be raised to pay for the new school -- that's what the bond issue was about. It was not said the school was free.

The important thing to remember is that the need for a new school buildings did not go away just because the bond didn't pass. All that meant was that Marshall missed out on federal funding options that won't be available the next time we have to vote on this. And we will have to vote on it. You can't wish away the reality of outdated school buildings.

-- Posted by Citizens for the School Bond on Tue, Mar 29, 2011, at 7:55 PM

WTF - Even if BFG meant Business 65, his implication is that the neighborhood he's referring to is secluded or otherwise not a place that's easy to get to. That's not true - those are public streets, easily accessed, just like every other street in Marshall. Not every house on that street is a "fancy one." The people who live there might not like it, but you can cruise around that neighborhood, looking at the houses, any time you feel like it.

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Tue, Mar 29, 2011, at 7:01 PM

I believe he was referring to Business 65 which is Odell

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Mar 29, 2011, at 6:40 PM

BigFatGuy: You wrote "you cant even get to their neighborhood via a side road, gotta take 65." I'm not sure what neighborhood you're talking about, but if you're referring to the area near Stone Hedge Country Club, please allow me to introduce you to Odell St., which runs all the way down there.

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Tue, Mar 29, 2011, at 6:11 PM

I find it way too funny that there are still people grousing over the failure of a school bond issue that we can't afford.

That 'lower heating bills' might balance the budgets is hillarious. A reason voters have no confidence in the groups pushing for a new school is evidenced by those kind of statements.

The costs of operating the school district would obviously go up with a new building. Doh? How do we pay off the $20 Million if we don't raise taxes?

As my dearly departed father would have said "You can buy a lot of natural gas for $20 million."

And to clarify, there would be no segregation created by a new school, but the lucky neighborhood that lands a new school will enjoy an increase in the adjoining property values.

I believe the concern of the clubbers is that they would prefer a new school on the vacant property bordering their neighborhood before somebody puts another subsidized housing development or trailer park next door.

-- Posted by Smart Dog on Tue, Mar 29, 2011, at 4:14 PM


It's always been my theory on small-town living, if you don't know your own business; just ask your neighbor and they'll tell you! :)

-- Posted by nouveaublogger on Tue, Mar 29, 2011, at 3:56 PM

the rest of the people who visit this blog will no doubt fill you in on that question. if I answer now I will get deleted for making fun of you and maybe using profanity. I`ll try to respond later.

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Tue, Mar 29, 2011, at 3:07 PM

Explain how people would be segregated. Every bond issue would have included all children of certain grades in a new building. Not just people in that area. Issues failed for a new school north of town, south of town, and east of town. If you don't want a new school, fine. But please don't pull the discrimination card--it does not apply.

-- Posted by mu-grad on Tue, Mar 29, 2011, at 12:06 PM

what makes you think that marshall could fit all iths kids into a new Rich Kid School.

where do you think that cut money from that meeting would have gone? to the new school upkeep etc. and at least one plumbing/electrical problem because the city of marshall cant add a building without at least one. check every single (non private home) building added in the last 10 years.

insulating 2 old buildings is still cheaper than building a brand new one from the ground up.

the only major up side is a school over by the money so those with money can Defacto segregate their kids from us poorer folks. why do you think they seperate themselves from us so? you cant even get to their neighborhood via a side road, gotta take 65

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Tue, Mar 29, 2011, at 11:36 AM


No, if we had a new building, the school district would save the money from heating two less old poorly insulated buildings -- compared to the cost of heating one well insulated (and possibly ground-source heat) building.

-- Posted by Citizens for the School Bond on Tue, Mar 29, 2011, at 11:22 AM

heard that the owners of the Phillips 66 that closed was not paying their bill for gas is the reason they closed the stores in Marshall, Concordia and Boonville

-- Posted by froom on Tue, Mar 29, 2011, at 7:15 AM

Jo, thanks for the good wishes.

I haven't been posting much lately since I'm an outsider and most of the topics have been of concern to Marshall residents.

Yep, my vision is pretty poor these days. I have a form of RP (retinitis pigmentosa) which has narrowed my field of vision to less than 1 degree, and the degeneration of the retinal tissue is making for a steadily darker environment, like standing outside in the evening and watching the daylight turn to darkness.

You win the bet about finding the sandstone with all the names on it. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Mar 29, 2011, at 12:18 AM

Thank you, and good to hear from you UpseDaisy. This must be old timer homecoming day on the "Speak Out" blog. Of course I mean all we long time posters. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Mar 28, 2011, at 11:45 PM

Ok Reader,

Thanks for dailyfinance link on oil prices. Should we be surprised that "Among the biggest winners of the new oil markets are investment banks like Goldman Sachs (GS) and Morgan Stanley (MS), which create new products for clients and then use that information to trade on the products."

My Mama used to say, "The rich get richer, the poor get children."

Read a great quote today, "Raising teenagers is like trying to nail Jello to a wall."

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Mon, Mar 28, 2011, at 11:33 PM

Former Editor: Thanks for the link. Hilariously depressing, and informative.

Jo: I don't recall my Dad ever going deer hunting. Of course there were not any deer in Missouri in those days. He was more in to geese, duck, quail, and dove. He did go to Madison WI pheasant hunting once, around 1945 I believe. He enjoyed fly fishing, especially rare trips to Bennet Springs trout fishing. He also used to fish the Missouri River, catfish, drum, etc. He also liked to fly fish for bass in farm ponds.

Do you know who the people are in the picture, and where they were hunting?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Mar 28, 2011, at 11:11 PM

Slater: hows your eyes doing? I remember you had mentioned you had some trouble? Bet you couldn't find that sand stone with all the Names on it,i know i couldn't! Take care my friend,good to hear from you.You haven't been Posting much? Stay well!

-- Posted by Jo on Mon, Mar 28, 2011, at 10:14 PM

Hey Jo!

Great to see you again! It's getting to be that time of the year to come out of hibernation. :)

Hope all is well with you!

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Mar 28, 2011, at 9:51 PM


Answer...None. Because all the existing ones would be still running plus the addition of a new school. Simple math...would be costing us more. Nice try though.

-- Posted by Scarpetta on Mon, Mar 28, 2011, at 9:07 PM

Interesting reading in the article about the last Marshall School Board meeting.

Cuts, cuts, and more cuts!

Wonder how much we would be saving on heating bills with the new school if the school bond had passed.

-- Posted by Citizens for the School Bond on Mon, Mar 28, 2011, at 8:26 PM

Hey Oklahoma; Say my friend, i think i have an old News Paper Photo of four deer Hunters . You may or may not know them ? If i can find it,i will send it,if your interested?

-- Posted by Jo on Mon, Mar 28, 2011, at 8:19 PM

Yes, a generation of deregulation and Fed-fueled speculation leaves an expensive mess. The last time we had high gas prices, it was speculators driving up the cost of driving. For interesting input on Fed fueled inflation and speculation see the following cartoon gone viral that explains "Quantitative Easing." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTUY16CkS...

-- Posted by former editor on Mon, Mar 28, 2011, at 7:41 PM

Good article OKR. I'd heard that before, but this explains it well.

-- Posted by Philemon on Mon, Mar 28, 2011, at 3:38 PM

The real reason gas prices are going up? It has nothing to do with the potential loss of Libyan oil. It has nothing to do with your local gas station. It even has nothing to do with greedy oil companies. Some of you will be surprised, but the answer, provided at the following link, not only tells us why, but gives a reasonable solution to the problem. Must read. http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/the-re...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Mar 28, 2011, at 2:49 PM


Have we heard any thing else on what might have started the fire at Deer Creek Apt.?

-- Posted by momandgramma on Sun, Mar 27, 2011, at 2:22 PM
Response by Pat Nolan/Staff writer:
I don't have the fire report in front of me, as I am at home, but there was no cause listed. It was undetermined.

Just went to the Circle K site.....they list the W. College address as a Circle K store. Maybe they are going to redo it and reopen.

-- Posted by momaster on Sun, Mar 27, 2011, at 11:43 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
I haven't been out there, but I did hear they had closed. We'll see if we can find out more details Monday.

Eric, know anything about this Phillips 66 thing?

Have they closed? That might explain why twice in the last month I went in there and they were out of unleaded fuel..selling premium for regular price.

-- Posted by momaster on Sun, Mar 27, 2011, at 11:39 AM

Phillips 66 became Circle K, which I heard had closed. Last Saturday my friend went in there and they were selling cigarettes 2 for 4 dollars and everything else dirt cheap.

-- Posted by MyVoiceIsHeard on Sun, Mar 27, 2011, at 11:16 AM

Does anyone know what's up at the Phillips 66 station? Looks like they have been closed the last two days.

-- Posted by momaster on Sun, Mar 27, 2011, at 10:38 AM

Did anyone go to the Craft Fair at the High School Saturday? Do you want more?

-- Posted by red dog on Sun, Mar 27, 2011, at 9:43 AM

Read Marcia Gorrell's story about the sound of silence. It will make your day better.

-- Posted by red dog on Sun, Mar 27, 2011, at 9:02 AM

anyone have an old barn or shed that is unpainted they want removed? Or have old scrap untreated lumber? Do you need someone to remove them for you? I dont need much but I have a project I want to start and I would be happy to take some material off your hands that is taking up space or in your way...

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Mar 27, 2011, at 2:47 AM


Wish you best of luck in finding a great environment setting for you and the children ...*Smile and pass one along

-- Posted by momandgramma on Fri, Mar 25, 2011, at 7:54 PM

Thanks, MomandGramma... I was going to give it a few more tries until you posted..I have kids and don't want to deal with noisy neighbors or management that don't care, especially if they can't even return a call :( My search continues!

-- Posted by MG2008 on Fri, Mar 25, 2011, at 6:19 PM

Indiana deputy prosecutor and Republican activist resigned Thursday after the Wisconsin Center for Investigative Journalism uncovered an email to Gov. Scott Walker in which he suggested a fake attack on the governor to discredit union protesters.

If you could employ an associate who pretends to be sympathetic to the unions' cause to physically attack you (or even use a firearm against you), you could discredit the unions," the email said


-- Posted by cheesehead on Fri, Mar 25, 2011, at 10:38 AM


That is just a taste of how is ran at Deer Creek, think personally I would shop somewhere else to live....

My friend says rare occasion you catch a answer on phone, leave a message never get a return call

back, go to office never unlocked,if you have neighbors that are rude and loud after the hours 11 pm keep you awake ( minors in a campground with alcohol out of control ) that do not have a J O B ya just have to deal with it ...

Utilities will eat you alive .... just a few points for ya

-- Posted by momandgramma on Fri, Mar 25, 2011, at 10:33 AM

There is an ad in the classifieds for apartments at the Deer Creek complex. I have called there OVER five times (literally..I'm a tad obsessive...)with NO answer any of those multiple times (and yes, it WAS during office hours) and left TWO voicemails with no returned call...What does a girl have to do in this town to get an apartment?!

-- Posted by MG2008 on Fri, Mar 25, 2011, at 3:24 AM

You can vote for one of Marshall's own if you like:



-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Mar 24, 2011, at 4:15 PM


Here's a little cheer for you from the Dairy Queen website:

"We believe that Australia and New Zealand will be strong markets in the future. Our expansion efforts are constantly growing and we hope to be in many new markets including Australia and New Zealand within the next five years."

-- Posted by Philemon on Wed, Mar 23, 2011, at 1:15 PM

amen on that one! their Blizzards are the best evening snack in town too.

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Wed, Mar 23, 2011, at 12:01 PM

News unlike a lot of the other fast food places in Marshall that the kids work at the Lamberson's work around the schedules of these high school kids.

Another thing they do is they close on holidays so their employees can spend time with their families.

A very well ran business and the amount of business they do shows that.

-- Posted by Gal66 on Wed, Mar 23, 2011, at 6:23 AM

I see the Dairy Queen is in the news.

I think what the Dairy Queen did for the DECA students is absolutely outstanding. They are a good example of a good local business belping out in the community.

I have missed the Marshall Dairy Queen since I left. I used to go eat lunch there pretty often. I like Dairy Queen quite a bit. Its not just all the ice-cream...well ok the ice-cream is a big part of it lol -- but I like their hot food too. Its always fresh and hot.

If they were having a fast-food election next year, I think Dairy Queen would probably be one fot the final contenders...along with Taco Bell and Sonic.

I like fast food...lol...ok I like all food..I admit it...but it is good to see the Dairy Queen helping out the DECA students. The Marshall Dairy Queen not only has great food but obviously they have some mighty fine people working there too -- especially the owner, Mr. Mike Lamberson -- and also everyone in Marshall who bought a blizzard to help send the kids to the next round of competition.

Good on ya Mike Lamberson

Good on ya Dairy Queen!!

Good on ya Marshall!!

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Mar 23, 2011, at 12:16 AM

miss october

I must have heard him give that same speech at least a million times lol...

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Mar 22, 2011, at 11:56 PM

Does anyone remember George Bush's state of the union address. Regardless this was the one he wanted to give. This is one you must watch.


-- Posted by miss october on Tue, Mar 22, 2011, at 11:49 PM


Actually, cheesehead didn't even need to post the article to prove that the repeal of most collective bargaining rights for public workers has nothing to do with the state budget.

The WI Senate Republicans did that all by themselves when they decided to circumvent the required quorum of 20 senators for all "fiscal" items and pass the repeal of those collective bargaining rights separately from any and all fiscal items. Please note that since that has passed, we have heard not a word from Gov. Walker about how "we have to pass this Budget Repair bill to refinance the state's debt or I will have to lay off 1500 people by April 1." In fact, that portion of the bill has yet to pass, and Gov. Walker rescinded the layoff notices.

No, the stripping of collective bargaining rights from Wisconsin state workers had nothing to do with the budget or any other fiscal items. It had everything to do with stripping power & rights from public workers, and was a power grab on the part of Walker & the Fitzgerald brothers on behalf of their puppet masters the Koch brothers.

-- Posted by koeller77 on Tue, Mar 22, 2011, at 9:31 AM


Again, you hit the nail right on the head.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Mar 22, 2011, at 5:56 AM


I see nothing wrong with the previous link by cheesehead, but since you want to try to cast the link as not objective here is another article about how a woman in Wisconsin with ties to A Republican Senator by the name of Randy Hopper who just got paid more than $11,000 more than the person who was previously in that position. It just happens this woman is this senator's mistress.

It turns out this is a public employee and they were supposed to be cutting the budget right? Isnt this unfair to the other employess who have seen their wages cut? I agree the Gov of Wisconsin is the best example of hypocrisy and more have come to form this opinion.


-- Posted by miss october on Mon, Mar 21, 2011, at 11:00 PM


I'm not seeing anything about fox news in cheese's article, but Fox news villifies itself and no one really has to help them out. Maybe you should find some facts before you try to reply to someones post.

-- Posted by miss october on Mon, Mar 21, 2011, at 10:47 PM


Your referenced article "proves" nothing. You seem to have this phobia about Fox News and villify the network at every opportunity. Yet you produce an article to make a point that references the Daily Kos as a source. "Can anybody say hypocrisy?", indeed. You might want to tune in to MSNBC. They certainly seem to lean your way, with maybe a tad bit more objectivity.

-- Posted by Bcat on Mon, Mar 21, 2011, at 10:36 PM

This proves that what is happening in Wisconsin is not about the budget regardless of what he says. If they were serious about cutting the budget then how would the girlfriend of one of the GOP senators get a public sector job with a raise of $12000 more than the person who previously held that postition?

Can anybody say hypocrisy?


-- Posted by cheesehead on Mon, Mar 21, 2011, at 9:14 PM

"Labor movement could kick-start a 'popular revolt' in the U.S., Nader claims"


-- Posted by news across on Mon, Mar 21, 2011, at 5:03 PM

Thankyou for the kind comments OKR and Former Editor, I will address any interests that you have in Australia if I can. As far as nuclear energy is concerned I urge extreme caution. The Titanic was built to never sink and it did. Unfortunately with nuclear there are no 100% safety guarantees and the industry has a long history of near misses as well as devastating accidents. In Japan they started using MOX ( a mixture of uranium oxides and plutonium) in September 2010 in Reactor 3. Mox fuel is highly concentrated with radioactivity but a cheaper option as spent plutonium is recycled. http://www.nirs.org/factsheets/moxprolif...

This stuff is incredibly dangerous to human beings and there has been a desire to use this in some US nuclear reactors like Hanford in Washington State http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/lo.... As I consider the USA to be my second home I urge you not to go down the nuclear road any more. The only way I could be reassured by those who think nuclear is the way to go is if all of the owners of the reactors had the courage of their convictions and lived next to them. The US is such a beautiful place with so many natural resources, you don't need this 'dirty' energy source, the people of Missouri deserve better.

-- Posted by aussie wife on Sun, Mar 20, 2011, at 9:35 PM

The radiation from the nuclear accident in Japan has spread into its food sources and levels in these foods such as milk and spinach are rising. These levels are high enough they breech Japan's food safety laws. There might not be an immediate risk of eating these foods, but who knows the long term effects.


-- Posted by cheesehead on Sun, Mar 20, 2011, at 1:06 PM

Interesting views from Australia! Thanks. I've wondered why we ship jobs to China so they can make things "dirty" when we could make products with less pollution here. I kind of hope we build another nuclear plant in Mo., not on the New Madrid fault, of course. We won't have tsunami. Nuclear can become safer after analysis of Japan's backup systems failures.

Weather/climate is different in Mo. Here's a link to a rural data station in this county. It shows the same 110+ year trend as other rural Mo. stations not affected by urban heat island effect, supporting old timer views that it was hotter here in Dust Bowl days. I doubt this raw data is used in figuring climate - or is adjusted downward on assumption old data keepers couldn't be right. http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistem...

-- Posted by former editor on Sun, Mar 20, 2011, at 11:51 AM

Welcome to the blog Mrs. Across, or should I say Ms. Across, or perhaps just Aussie Wife? ;)

Anyway, keep em coming.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Mar 20, 2011, at 12:46 AM

aussie wife

Thank you honey.

Anytime you have an Aussie question, she is definately the one to talk to.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Mar 19, 2011, at 8:08 PM

Former Editor, the carbon polluter's tax has become a big issue in Australian politics mainly due to right wing shockjocks broadcasting misinformation about how utility prices and evrything else will increase because of it. They are trying to organise a rally in a few weeks but if it is anything like the last one where 400 people were against the tax and 8,000 for it, it will fail. http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/latest/8999...

The latest polls here very confusing as they show declining support for a carbon tax but a majority demand that something be done about climate change. There is definitely a push here to get people to consider alternative energy sources but it will take time. As far as exporting coal to China is concerned, this is considered a necessary evil at this time as Australia relies heavily upon natural resources. But as we have more sunlight than most other countries, development of solar/ green industries is a high priority for the government and gradually our reliance upon coal will decrease. Most of the European countries have a carbon tax and the push for nuclear energy in Australia is now dead because of Japan, so it is inevitable that we will have this tax (the government is giving compensation to the middle and lower classes for any major financial consequences). You might find this article from The Guardian interesting as it gives more background to this issue.


-- Posted by aussie wife on Sat, Mar 19, 2011, at 7:56 PM

Children, children, children. Quit this crap.

-- Posted by red dog on Sat, Mar 19, 2011, at 7:54 PM

Oh heck, I had to post this last Woody Guthrie Song. He was indeed a great American folk hero.


-- Posted by news across on Sat, Mar 19, 2011, at 6:56 PM

Oh and here is another wonderful song by the late, great Woody Guthrie


-- Posted by news across on Sat, Mar 19, 2011, at 6:49 PM

former editor

Yeah all good questions mate.

Don't worry, my wife has it covered lol lol lol.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Mar 19, 2011, at 6:27 PM


Do you like music? I like music. Heck I even play a violin -- not well -- but I play. Eric is a musician too...probably much better than I could even be.

Anyway, if ya like music, you might like this song.

Its a song about you and me and America.

Its a song by that great American Patriot, Woody Guthrie.

I hope you will enjoy it as much as I do...and go ahead mate -- crank it up!!


-- Posted by news across on Sat, Mar 19, 2011, at 6:26 PM

News Across:

Any opinion on the axe-the-carbon-tax protests coming to a town near many down under next week? Why charge Australians more for coal power while shipping more and more coal to China? What goes on?

-- Posted by former editor on Sat, Mar 19, 2011, at 6:18 PM


No offense mate, but I am from Marshall not Australia...well to be specfic, I was born in Kansas City...but I grew up in Marshall and Chicago. My family has been in Marshall for 5 generations now. My Uncle's military honors are still accounted for on the WWII Veteran Board inside the Court House. Yes, I go way back in America and in Marshall mate.

Ya know, my family has contributed a lot to our Country. The most recent contribution was my nephew -- an Army Sgt who died of wounds he recieved being shot up by the Taliban while he saved the men in his platoon in Afghanistan. They gave him a bunch of medals, named a building after him, and gave my sister a flag.

I am a Vietnam Era Army Veteran. Yeah I did my service too mate.

Ya know mate, you are welcome to think what ever you want, but you are not welcome to decide for me what patriotism is or what I should or should not do.

I will continue to point our when America does bad things and I will continue to cheer America when she does good things. I will continue to vote in my district in Independence, and I will continue to pay my American Taxes (property tax, state sales tax, tax on my Australian income above $83,000, ect), and I will continue to be loud and proud mate.

Get used to it.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Mar 19, 2011, at 6:06 PM

All right if anybody knows Ann Coulter, she is now a radiology specialists. She is now trying to tell people they should get more levels of radiation. Everybody that believes this should head toward the nuclear accident in Japan, hopefully Ann will do the same.


-- Posted by miss october on Sat, Mar 19, 2011, at 12:07 PM


So you are the patriotic police? It doesnt seem patriotic to disagree with someone by questioning their degree of patriotism. There are many evils in this country and news helps bring light on these issues, so if you dont like those issues take issue with those and stop the personal attacks.

-- Posted by miss october on Sat, Mar 19, 2011, at 12:02 PM

OK Reader...my comment is hardly a 'love it or leave it' edict on life. It just seems that our friend from down under is always frothing at the mouth about all the evils of this country, (his current addendum missive exemplifies) while dandying off to the underside of the planet. Part of being a patriot is actually doing something to consumate your love of country. And though spinning a discourse on electronic blogs can anonymously fill some need, it falls very short of actually doing anything of substance to show your service. Afterall Missouri is the show me state isn't it?

-- Posted by oceanlord49 on Sat, Mar 19, 2011, at 9:50 AM


Yes I do prefer life in Australia.

However, I often miss my mother Nation too.

I have a deep love for America that spans a lifetime.

That is why I am critical of America when She is doing bad things...

...things like torture, spying on Americans in violation of the law and our Constitution, waging war on the natural human rights of America's workers, profiling and discrimination of American Hispanics, African Americans, and Moslem Americans (just to name a few), attacking 3rd World Countries who never attacked us or had the capacity or ability to attack us (including getting my Nephew, a US Army Sgt, killed in a war that should never have been in the first place) -- and then escalating those wars, stifling our civil rights, out-right denying such rights as our 8th Ammendment Right to humane treatment and to not be subjected to cruel and unsual punishment, as some of our citizens have been subjected to and as some are being subjected to right now (such as Private Manning), and so many other things that are just plain wrong.

Its hard to see my own Nation do these things and so many other bad things.

So as a loyal, patriotic, and dedicated American citizen I feel I have a duty and an obligation to speak out against such threats to our Nation -- even when those threats come from within.

It takes a lot of love of one's Country to do that mate.

So I will never completely leave my mother country. Though an Iron Curtain seems to have decended upon our Nation, I have not lost hope. I love our Nation way too much to ever do that mate, and I will always return.

And don't worry mate, I am always here here to cheer our Nation on when She does the right thing too. But as to what soil is beneath my feet at any given moment...well...as a free man that is my choice to make when and where I want to make it.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Mar 18, 2011, at 11:58 PM

Kind of like love it, or leave it oceanlord? Have you considered the possibility that the only real option of an American patriot, is that if you see something you percieve to be wrong, speak out?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Mar 18, 2011, at 11:44 PM

Say news across, from reading your many missives detailing you positions on about everything under the sun in life, many of which are flavored with a great distaste for America, why aren't you living full time in the land down under? As so many things in America seem to set you off, it would seem to me you would best serve yourself to live in the land of kangeroos for more than just six months of the year. Just wondering mate.

-- Posted by oceanlord49 on Fri, Mar 18, 2011, at 10:45 PM


Now there's an example of of city taking the hiring of this important position seriously. Our city council could not have come off looking more lazy than it did with it's pre-arranged process. They definataly took the easy way out.

-- Posted by Bcat on Fri, Mar 18, 2011, at 7:33 PM

Very interesting....

City administrator selection panel reviews process at first meeting


-- Posted by nouveaublogger on Fri, Mar 18, 2011, at 6:27 PM

Here is a copy of an email sent to the Governor in response to his fake thank you to public employess who he has tried to take rights of in Wisconsn and it couldnt have been worded any more accurately. Its a good thing a Wisconsin judge put his bill on hold.

"Please, keep your backhanded 'thank you's and empty compliments to yourself," one person who identified himself as a state corrections worker wrote to Walker. "Actions speak louder than words, and every one of your actions speaks quite clearly to your irrational hatred of the very people that have dedicated their lives and careers to keeping the state running safely and efficiently."

-- Posted by cheesehead on Fri, Mar 18, 2011, at 4:50 PM


Absolutely folks should always question everything. You may not get a response from me. Often times I simply state my opinion and I make the best case i can in my argument. I see responses and I respect that others may not share my opinion. I support diversity and open discussion of all the issues and I have no objection to disagreement.

However, my American citizenship is not up for debate. I was born and spent most of my life in America. I am a natural born American citizen and a natural born Missourian. My family on my Father's side has been in America since we were only 13 Colonies, a member of my family has served in every war we have ever fought (I too am a veteran), and on my Mother's side my family has been in America for over 14,000 years (yes I am part native American).

In addition, the 14th Ammendment of our Constitution guarantees my 1st class citizenship can never be taken from me. I do also have Australian citizenship. Its called dual citizenship. While I could live in the USA and while I still own a permanent residence in Independence, I prefer to live in a free country and not behind the American Iron Curtain.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Mar 18, 2011, at 4:43 PM


Do I sense a bit of prejudice toward people who dont live in the U.S.? Or just a belief that they shouldn't be allowed to share their thought?

News actually contributes more and more accurate information to this forum and we should be glad to have him regardless where he is from.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Fri, Mar 18, 2011, at 4:39 PM

A US citizen, yes. Opinions that should be questioned, absolutely. One has nothing to do with the other.

-- Posted by Philemon on Fri, Mar 18, 2011, at 3:57 PM

They have already stated that being a US citzen isnt a prerequiste for posting opinion on this forum.

God bless Wisconsin and Im glad to see a judge called this an illegal law and halted it.

-- Posted by miss october on Fri, Mar 18, 2011, at 2:24 PM

all opinions should be Questioned.

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Fri, Mar 18, 2011, at 2:12 PM

Newsacross--you certainly have opinions about EVERYTHING for someone who doesn't even live in the Good 'Ole USA!! I hope other readers question your opinions as I do!!!

-- Posted by farmerwife on Fri, Mar 18, 2011, at 2:01 PM

NBC15 Breaking News right now out of Wisconsin:

A judge has issued a temporary restraining order halting the implementation of the collective bargaining bill. But the judge pointed out, lawmakers can give proper notice and hold joint conference committee meeting again. Dane County's D.A. filed a lawsuit contending a legislative committee met without the 24-hour notice required by Wisconsin's open meetings law.

-- Posted by koeller77 on Fri, Mar 18, 2011, at 11:17 AM

miss october

I read the article you posted a link to.

That is excellent news.

The Republican Party has show what its really all about...again...anti-American worker, anti-American traditions, anti-American values, just to name a few.

2012 is an election year and we can rid our government of the Republicans that thought they could wipe out the rights of the American worker.

The Republicans started this class-war on the American worker...and We the People, We the American Workers, will win it in 2012!!!

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 17, 2011, at 11:07 PM

Missourians rally this week in Jeff City to put a stop to the anti-union bill with success. There were unable to gather enought support to even hold a vote.


-- Posted by miss october on Thu, Mar 17, 2011, at 9:06 PM

Happy St. Patrick's Day, All!

Éirinn go Brách!!!

-- Posted by koeller77 on Thu, Mar 17, 2011, at 9:09 AM

Thanks Eric. Just heard some more myself - appears to be just a rumor.

-- Posted by broke-n-busted on Wed, Mar 16, 2011, at 8:27 PM

Heard a rumor that the majority of the Hab Center closed today. Can anybody confirm or deny this?

-- Posted by broke-n-busted on Wed, Mar 16, 2011, at 7:33 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
For what it's worth: We received no notice to that effect from the Dept. of Mental Health.


They only call it Union Thuggary and class warfare when WE THE PEOPLE fight back!!

The workers of Wisconsin will continue to fight back and workers all across America will be pushed no further.

Get used to it!

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Mar 16, 2011, at 5:00 PM

BFG said that he reworked some of the electrical in the pub. His comment seems newsworthy to me in that it is the comment of a professional (that is true BFG?) who has had hands on experience with the original electrical work. That would have required a detailed inspection of the original work, noting its flaws, before redoing it.

Eric you have offered to talk to the original contractors, would you not also want to talk to those who redid the work? Perhaps he could even provide additional insight as to the reason/reasons for the delay in completion.

In my mind BFG is a potential news source. It seems to me that would provide balance to the story, but then I am not a news professional, so perhaps I am wrong.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Mar 16, 2011, at 4:35 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Yes, we would be interested in talking with anyone who will speak on the record about the issues. 660-886-2233 or pnolan@marshallnews.com

John Q's piece appeared months ago - October 25, to be exact - and it appears that the same issues are being cited in the recent story as the reason the pub still isn't open. More than four months have passed, which ought to be plenty of time to correct the problems mentioned in that blog, if they exist. Another story doesn't seem necessary to me, either.

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Wed, Mar 16, 2011, at 4:06 PM

BFG my suggestion wouldn't allow you to add the balance you would like to on the thread at John Q.'s blog. Maybe J.Q. will reopen it to comment.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Mar 16, 2011, at 3:32 PM

Post it here BFG? Most of us who have followed the story would be interested in you comment.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Mar 16, 2011, at 3:27 PM

Hey John Q,

the reason people like me can`t post anything factual or nice about Madigan`s pub is that they cant. The "post a comment" button has been removed. I would like to comment on the construction/re-construction work that I acutally did on that building and how Madigan is pulling his hair out trying to get this place open, but either you or the MDN has decided to leave the nasty comments and conjectures up there with a half hearted response By Mr.Q as the default last luke warm word with no way to refute such scattergun-ish remarks.

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Wed, Mar 16, 2011, at 2:49 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
We would like to do a news story on the project with more information from other sources who are familiar with it. Please call Pat Nolan at 886-2233 or write pnolan@marshallnews.com

interested too, I hear you! wouldn`t it be great if these talking heads were forced to show how they came to the conclusions that spray from their mouths like flies off of a kicked corpse.

it would be so nice to see a works cited page in his credits at the end of the "show"

I wish somebody would sit Glenn down and read him the history of the modern world.

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Wed, Mar 16, 2011, at 2:18 PM

Just another great example of union thuggery at its best.


-- Posted by Mommyto1 on Wed, Mar 16, 2011, at 1:17 PM

I guess I am on my soapbox this morning.

Glenn Beck stated that "Japan deserved its troubles". I admit that this is a paraphrase, but check it out for yourself.

Yes, Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, and they paid the price.

They have been a good ally for decades since, and they do not deserve this sort of vile exchange by an idiot that gets press by being an idiot.

-- Posted by Interested Too on Wed, Mar 16, 2011, at 9:30 AM

Well, Missouri made the front page of USA Today on Proposition B.

Thanks for listening to the lobbyists; Rep. Aull and Sen. Stouffer.

Once again, the voter's voices are quelled by special interests.

-- Posted by Interested Too on Wed, Mar 16, 2011, at 9:25 AM

"AT&T to cap users' Internet access, impose fees for too much information"



-- Posted by news across on Wed, Mar 16, 2011, at 3:29 AM


Yeah like I said, I am definately the most notorious misspeller of this forum without question mate (so what else is new? lol).

But I am working on it lol.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Mar 16, 2011, at 3:15 AM


While we're about the dictionary and spelling...

nevertheless, tidbit, et. al. :)

Ain't it the pits?

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Mar 16, 2011, at 1:12 AM

"Boycott targets contributors to Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker"



Hit 'em where it hurts fellas!!

Yes indeed, elections do have consequences and this is only the beginning.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Mar 15, 2011, at 11:41 PM


When ever using a "Websters" dictionary, its a good idea to check who the publisher is.

The copyright on the name "Webster" expired a long time ago (life of the author + 50 years). Webster is now part of the public domain and anyone in the World can publish their own English dictionary and call it "Websters"

I thought you might like that little tid-bit. I learned the from my university freshman English Comp Professor. She was particularly concerned because she was even pickier about sources than I am...lol.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Mar 15, 2011, at 11:27 PM


I mispell a lot of words mate, but here in Australia I think a lot of people misspell that word because it usually appears in the same form.

I think if you check a good, fully qualified Australian English dictionary you will find that one of the common forms of the word here is fairdikum. You will probably also find other forms including the one you cite as well as fair-dikum.

Never the less, or should I say never-the-less, it is an Australian English word that I doubt you would find on dictionary dot com.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Mar 15, 2011, at 11:21 PM

News Across: LOL My friend I think you incorrectly spelled fair dinkum. At least that is what is indicated by my "Webster's Third New International Dictionary" that I keep beside my computer. You are hopeless. LOL, LOL. (Indicates affectionate laughter, not derisive laughter.)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Mar 15, 2011, at 10:42 PM

Miss Marple

Like me, I feel relatively certain you were taught to always cite qualified sources.

I agree with you regarding the dictionary dot com dictionary.

I have always prefered a source with a long record of concise definitions and which provides every definition of every English word used be it Old English (lower German), Middle English, and Modern English, anywhere in the World. To give you an example of what I mean, try looking up the English word "Fairdikum" on Dictionary dot com -- I doubt you would find it there. Yet it is an English language word used with great frequency in Australia.

Probably the most qualified dictionary a person can use is the Old Oxford English Dictionary. It is regarded by virtually every single prominent academic English Scholar to be the authority on the English language. In fact, as you probably already know, the creation process that was used in the development of the Old Oxford English Dictionary was so complex, took so many years, and was such an outstanding achievement that they actually made a movie about it -- and it did quite well at the box office lol.

...and you will find the word "fairdikum" in that dictionary.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Mar 15, 2011, at 10:10 PM

news across - Not everyone finds spelling easy and not everyone cares. It's wonderful that you're trying to do better. What winds my watch is the suggestion that dictionary.com is any kind of reliable source. It's not.

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Tue, Mar 15, 2011, at 9:39 PM

Miss Marple

As one of the most notorious misspellers in this forum, I appologize for not being more attentive in my writing.

I admit I have always had difficulty with spelling. I think it may have something to do with the mix of Teutonic spellings in some words and latin spelling in others, or maybe its just plain, ol' carelessness on my part.

Whatever the cause, I am working on improving my postings.

I do agree with you that proper grammar and spelling are important, and it seems sometimes as if all the rules have just been thrown right out the window in this age of the internet.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Mar 15, 2011, at 9:11 PM

Dictionary.com is not what anyone who cares about the language we speak would call a real dictionary. It's true that the use of the "word" irregardless means regardless, but that is by no means proper or correct usage.

I don't care who uses or endorses dictionary.com, all it does is give you what people mean when they use words that shouldn't be considered common usage. You can also find "accidently" in dictionary.com, which is not an acceptable spelling of "accidentally."

The decline of proper spelling and usage in this country is appalling. Newspapers, books and magazines, and even websites, in the early days, used to care about that - these days it's quite easy to find poor grammar and worse spelling everywhere, and I'm not talking about typographical errors, which we all make now and then.

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Tue, Mar 15, 2011, at 8:22 PM


Here's the definition I found on dictionary.com

Definitions of 'irregardless'[ir-i-gahrd-lis]

Dictionary.com - (Showing 1 definitions)


1. regardless

-- Posted by brmihe on Tue, Mar 15, 2011, at 7:41 PM

I'm just guessing, but I would think that Ms. Latimer's salary (or lack thereof), as well as other city employees salaries would be public record - and be contained in the budget. It doesn't look like that's online on the Marshall city website, but you should be able to request to see it at City Hall.

-- Posted by koeller77 on Tue, Mar 15, 2011, at 2:18 PM

never mind what I said: I dont care to argue. some body just answer LadyJustice`s Questions. I would really like to know the answers. (seriously)

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Tue, Mar 15, 2011, at 12:03 PM

my friend was in jail with a guy who was arrested for drugs. i searched his name and it wasnt in the paper. i have done this with numerous people and i have found that last names keep you out of the news. i dont know if its the police, sheriff, court, or paper. does this kind of stuff fall under susnshine law or is that just public meetings? also how can a city employee go without pay in secret? shouldnt that have some sort of "sunshine" on it? or is no one asking these questions?

-- Posted by ladyjustice on Tue, Mar 15, 2011, at 11:50 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Did you search the website or the newspaper? The website doesn't include all the information published in the paper, and the paper does not include all the information published on the website.

Court records are published weekly in the newspaper, for instance, but only court stories that are published in story form are posted on the web.

koeller and BFG,

You two are exactly right. It doesnt seem like the hundreds of thousands that have been involved in protests minded having their union dues deducted yet most in this country would like to see their money back that has paid for 2 wars.

When you have someone that listens to the likes of Beck or Limbaugh there wont be rational discussion that will come from them. So its usually best just to correct them but not to engage in a direct discussion as their rationale is flawed.

-- Posted by miss october on Tue, Mar 15, 2011, at 11:07 AM


first, have you ever heard of a closed union shop?

secondly,my tax money was forcibly taken out of my check and used to start 2 illegal wars over seas because the Bushes dont get along with successfull oil tycoons. I cant do any thing about that deduction.

third just because people in the sam group as me act foolish doesnt mean that they represent the whole group. for instance Mike Vicks actions dont make the whole NFL a bunch of animal abusers, and the dictator of wisconson's actions don`t make all republicans a bunch of autocratic Facists

finally "Irregardless" isn't a word.

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Tue, Mar 15, 2011, at 8:42 AM

Actually, xray, I don't rely on the mainstream media - I got my information from the front lines - the people who have BEEN at the capitol, seeing the protests - they're not violent. People like my sister-in-law, my brother, my step-mother. People like my former teachers, my coworkers, and my BOSS. No offense, but I'll take their front-line, been there, done that reports over your allegations.

There has been no "tearing up of the capitol". In fact, the unions that had people living at the capitol 24/7 had cleaning crews set up within their own ranks to keep it neat. There has been climbing in of the windows when they DOA has illegally closed the capitol to the public (something prohibited by the constitution). You'll note that the "$7.5 million" in damages testified to in court last Thursday was very, very quickly revised to less than $500k by Friday morning...and most of that was for adhesive removal of the painter's tape used.

As to the death threats - yes, you're correct. There have been 2. Whoop-de-doo. Compared with the close to 100,000 people who were there protesting peacefully on Saturday, hardly statistical significant. Can you imagine how many death threats the President receives every day in comparison?

My point was this - you don't want us to tar every Republican and/or Tea Partier with the Nutcase/psycho/crazy/violent tag, so don't do the same to us. And don't say I do - I'm married to a Republican, so I know that they come in the reasonable flavor, too, not just crazy.

-- Posted by koeller77 on Tue, Mar 15, 2011, at 8:30 AM

K77: here is an article that you might find interesting regarding my previous statement directed at you.

Friday the National Labor Relations Board ruled that threats of violence by Union organizers towards its members are NOT coercive. LOL So NO WONDER the Violent Union organizers, aka the Purple People Beaters of SEIU for example, are not being detained and arrested for their violence and threats of violence... LOL Hope this adequately addresses your complaint about painting all protests for the Unions with in one color.


Specifics for this case are :On August 22, 2008 the NLRB conducted an election where, by a vote of 14 to 12, the red-shirted Communications Workers of America (CWA) won the vote. Following the election, the employer filed objections, requesting the NLRB to overturn the election based upon alleged threats of physical violence made by pro-union supporters to their co-workers.

HERE IS THE QUOTE AND THREAT FROM THE UNION ORGANIZER: Specifically, the objections cite a statement by prounion employee Anthony Hodges to employee Matthew Abel that Hodges could "whip [employee Dennis Sheil's] a*s" or sabotage his work; an anonymous telephone threat to employee Lou Mays that the caller would "get even" with him if he "backstab[bed] us"; and statements by prounion employee Chris Verbal to a group of three or four employees that Verbal would "b*tch slap" two other employees (who were not present at the time) or "whip their f--in' ***" if they "cost us the election," and that he would "whip [supervisor] Eddie's ***" if the Union lost.

SO based on this ruling, I could use the same type of threat against Union organizers or my boss and not be held or arrested for threats of violence?

Exactly what kind of sense does it make, this ruling?

So much for Unions looking out for the welfare of its members... as the NEA Union boss stated, it is not about the kids or the teachers, it is ONLY about the collected money in the form of the Dues that allows them to garner more and more power by bribing more and more democrat politicians....

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Mar 15, 2011, at 8:20 AM

lol here is a good example of trying to force laws to support public sector Unions...

talk about brainwashing kids.


Here is a news story... MANDATORY membership in Teachers Unions and autopay of Union dues is the major issue.... how does making ANYTHING mandatory create freedom of choice? AND BECAUSE Unions forced Democrats in previous years in Wisconsin to pass a law that makes it mandatory for a teacher to pay their own hard earned money on Union Dues, does this not create an atmosphere where the Unions bosses have the power to coerce and badger and force their members to do what they want? If a Business owner had that same power to force its workers to do anything they want or they would have to move out of state, you all would be up in arms and bashing those evil rich big corporations for being mean to the little ole workers... lol


This one is not about Wisconsin but another state that had mandatory Union membership laws FORCING away the right to CHOSE for ones own self and giving the power to the Union and its bosses, taking away ALL choice regarding political processes and where the union dues monies go... so if a republican teacher who does not agree with democrat candidates is FORCED to be a Union member, their money is STILL going towards candidates and policies that they disagree with... this article also shows how one you are a teacher then your money is automatically taken from you without your consent. Making it MANDATORY to belong to a Union creates slaves to the Union, people with absolutely no choice in anything. And because Obama and the Unions are in bed together, any teacher who abhors Obama's policies has absolutely no recourse for sending their own hard earned money into the hands of someone with whom they disagree...

irregardless of the political process of Unions, the simple fact of making it MANDATORY for a teacher or ANYONE to belong to a Union without a choice is wrong on the base level of freedoms that America was founded on.


-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Mar 15, 2011, at 8:13 AM

Koeller 77....

Funny.... when it is the conservative or Republican side or the wacko righties and racist rednecks you all are quick to paint them all with one color...racist rednecks who all belong to a militia and hate ALL government and want absolutely NO government. Just look at the vitriol that spewed forth from this website, in lemming-like fashion, after the mainstream media jumped on the Palin-Hate band wagon even after the "Horrible" targets they cried about on her website were no different than the gun sights that the Democrats had on their website but the media refused to state anything about the Democrats equally harsh and mean rhetoric. It was total but blind and illogical and irrational, right hatred from the left that was demonstrated.

However, in this Public Sector Union issue in Wis. and other states, we are seeing tons and tons of VIOLENT speech and threats on recordings that the main stream media refuses to show so it is understanding that you and others like you would not see them on TV news or read about them in main stream radio or paper outlets like PBS or NPR because they refuse to run those stories because it makes THEIR side look foolish.

Have you heard from MSN, or NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN about all of the extremely violent death threats toward Gov. Walker of Wis and their Republicans in their house of legislators? Or about all the people entering through opened windows and tearing up the Capital building, or casting out violent and threatening rhetoric, often with pushing and shoving people who simply have a different opinion from them? Yeah, there might not be a lot of arrests, but that does not mean the violence and threats are not happening.... two reasons... typically the police do not want to arrest people who are protesting, it is bad form, causes bad feelings toward the police and then the people arrested can claim the government is persecuting them. The second reason is that the Police are in a public sector Union and contrary to popular belief, the police and fire Unions supported Democrat candidates primarily, only one or two groups in Wis actually voted for Gov. Walker, SO the people with the threats and mild violence are not going to get arrested when they support the cause of the unions with whom the police are associated with.

So... in summary, I am finding great amusement to state that those protesting against Gov Walker are almost all being pushed and prodded by the SEIU purple people beaters in the background.

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Mar 15, 2011, at 7:52 AM

Goldman Sachs bet against Wisconsin municipal bonds, sold toxic junk to their school district pension funds. Big bad banksters contributed to Wisconsin's budget/pension shortfalls. But do the unions go after them to demand regulation and less leverage? Time for everyone to go after them. Firefighters' local bank move was good but doesn't change Wall St./Washington corporatism. Ever wonder how much your local gas price reflects hedging with Bernenke-created money instead of Middle East uncertainty?

-- Posted by former editor on Tue, Mar 15, 2011, at 7:07 AM

SC: No offense, just discussion. It's all good.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Mar 14, 2011, at 10:07 PM

The firefighters in Wisconsin shut down the bank that funded Governor Scott Walker. Check this out link!


-- Posted by cheesehead on Mon, Mar 14, 2011, at 8:00 PM


-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Mar 14, 2011, at 3:27 PM

As this is not the religion blog, and for brevities sake I will just say that tainted Christianity is neither a new, nor a geographically confined concept.

I think that when taken in the context of the post that ND was responding to, her posting the link, and my response to it was not an attack on Christianity, but rather an observation on the failure of humanity as a whole to treat children in a humane manner. My post in response to hers was more in the nature of "ye gads is there no intenty that a portion of does not oppress children?"

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Mar 14, 2011, at 3:15 PM


Especially since WI state retirement is based on your "highest three years" of income.

-- Posted by koeller77 on Mon, Mar 14, 2011, at 3:06 PM

if I hear "public workers union" and "cushy retirement" in the same sentence again I may scream.

you show me a retired school lunch server, bus driver, janitor, garbage worker, or fireman who is living it up on his/her "cushy" retirement.

I dare you.

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Mon, Mar 14, 2011, at 2:49 PM

ND it is amazing that so many entities mistreat, and throw away children. Thanks for the links.

Christians accusing children of witchcraft? OMG?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Mar 14, 2011, at 2:19 PM

t-bone picker -

Sorry to not respond earlier, I wasn't online at all this weekend.

No, if we walked off our jobs to strike (or declined to perform our duties while we are at work), we could and probably would be fired. While Gov. Walker has severely limited what we can collectively bargain for, he has not eliminated the state statute that allows for the creation of unions. Unless we choose to do as the NFL players have done and decertify/dissolve our union, we are prohibited by law from striking.

Unfortunately, given the current economic state of Wisconsin, I can't afford to lose my job. My choice, instead, is to fight back by participating in protests on my own time, and working to help recall those Republican senators that we can.

-- Posted by koeller77 on Mon, Mar 14, 2011, at 8:55 AM

mr xray -

I would respectfully ask that you refrain from painting ALL of the union/union protesters with the broad brush as being "where the REAL violence and threats of violence are coming from"...

Like all political groups (including the Republicans and the tea party), the Democrats & the union protesters have nutcases that will always threaten violence. However, please note that not only have the protests in Madison been remarkable peaceful (only about 20 arrests over the course of 4 weeks), but that the vast majority of the protesters are NOT being violent, and not threatening violence.

-- Posted by koeller77 on Mon, Mar 14, 2011, at 8:49 AM


Just to clarify, I believe the "teacher's union" that you're speaking of that was granted collective bargaining rights 18 months ago refers to the fact that University of Wisconsin System faculty & academic staff were finally granted the right to unionize should they choose to do so, after 40 years of trying to get that right. Of course, they are now no longer legally able to do so with the passage of this bill.

The rest of the classified employees (secretaries, janitors, police, prison workers, etc.), along with public school teachers, were granted the right to unionize in 1959 - one of the first states to do so.

-- Posted by koeller77 on Mon, Mar 14, 2011, at 8:44 AM


Do you just make up stats as you go?

It sure seems like it.

Let's see the source of your stats...I want to check them for qualification. Please include the links.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Mar 14, 2011, at 7:49 AM

The price the will be payed for the attack on unions will be that their jobs will be recalled.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Mon, Mar 14, 2011, at 6:31 AM

Nanadot... dont confuse private sector unions with Government Unions... they are much different, mainly public sector Union are using confiscated money from tax payers to fund their cushy benefits and etc. AND unlike the private sector there is not industrial profit to compensate for the ever increasing COST, only more and more raiding of the tax payer's money. There is no Tax payer Union, only a collaberation between Democrats and Unions where the Unions collect 7 BILLION in dues annually and spend it on bribing politicians and influencing policies, then the Dems who get elected will not stand up for the TAX PAYER but give in to the hand that is feeding them... the Unions.

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Mar 14, 2011, at 5:38 AM

News... when Obama's ORganizing for America and the entire realm of Unions are paying homeless and other people to come protest and putting them on buses you can have as many people as you want there protesting. BUT when the protesters are asked specific questions about why they are there beyond the statements on the signs, their chants and their prompts from the organizers of the protests guess what? They cannot answer them....everywhere that SEIU has sent people to protest and when they are directly questioned the people have no clue why they are there and often just give up and demonstrate that they have no real conviction or beliefs...

OH YEAH.. dont forget that these so called Union protests are where the REAL violence and threats of violence are coming from... NOT the tea party. LOL

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Mar 14, 2011, at 5:34 AM

Nanadot.. your fearless leader told us during the campaing that he WANTED energy prices to skyrocket.... it is part of his deconstruct America plan.

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Mar 14, 2011, at 5:30 AM

"Wisconsin protests larger than any Tea Party rally"


-- Posted by news across on Mon, Mar 14, 2011, at 2:29 AM

Winning the hearts, and minds of the children of Afghanistan? http://www.truth-out.org/after-afghan-ma...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Mar 13, 2011, at 11:45 PM

Nanadot out of curiosity just what appropriations bill number or executive order gave the Koch brothers millions of dollars.


-- Posted by Mommyto1 on Sun, Mar 13, 2011, at 11:41 PM


If exercising a right the people have is a power grab the name of this power grab would be Democracy and only in a communist state would someone frown upon this. If the Democrats in Wisconsin are guilty of this then it clearly shows who represents the people better. I think most would agree that would like to have the option to exercise this right without government intervention.

-- Posted by miss october on Sun, Mar 13, 2011, at 9:49 PM

Mommyto1 - You said, "the real power grab was the teachers union and the democrats conspiring to give them collective bargaining rights a year and a half ago."

The unions in question in Wisconsin are not solely for teachers but also for a very large number of other public employees. Those unions, some of the first public employee unions in the country, have been in place for a lot longer than a mere 18 months.

As for a "conspiracy by democrats" to give them those rights, all I can say is that you need to review the history of collective bargaining in this country to get a better handle on how they came to be.

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Sun, Mar 13, 2011, at 9:42 PM

miss october,

The issue of elimination of collective bargaining did not come up over night. It was there for weeks. It was the Democrats who chose not to argue their point from the Senate chamber, rather from some hotel across the state line. So your claim of a power grab just doesn't hold water. The results may have been the same but I think those Democrat Senators certainly would be holding their heads a little bit higher. Some of them may think otherwise, and I respect their right to do so. In the final analysis, their electorate will have the last word on their behavior.

-- Posted by Bcat on Sun, Mar 13, 2011, at 9:27 PM

Miss October,

I would just like to point out that the real power grab was the teachers union and the democrats conspiring to give them collective bargaining rights a year and a half ago. The people of Wisconsin overwhelmingly responded to that power grab by voting democrats out and Republicans in to restore that balance.

-- Posted by Mommyto1 on Sun, Mar 13, 2011, at 8:54 PM


All of the financial aspects of the dealing with the teachers and the unions were agreed to with all parties involved, so all parties including unions agreed to financial provisions.

The motives to eliminate the collective bargaining was just a power grab in which the Governor and other members of their congress would benfit from this move. If you want to know the real reason just watch this clip of wis sen member Scott Fitzgerald. Although you may agree with this decision you would have to admit they have mislead and lied to the people of Wisconsin.


-- Posted by miss october on Sun, Mar 13, 2011, at 8:41 PM


You will find my response in the Political Speakout section if you are interested in reading it.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Mar 13, 2011, at 7:20 PM

Obama once reminded McCain during their discussion on the Health Care Bill: "Elections have consequences". The Democrat State Senators of Wisconsin knew this as well, when they were voted out of the majority. The difference is that they abdicated their duty to debate the issues on the Senate floor and fled across the state line. Once there, they refused to cross the union picket lines to even think about returning to do the job to which they were elected.

The Republican MAJORITY and the Govenor have acted in what they believe to be the best interest of their State. If the citizens of Wisconson want to recall them for not meeting with the Democrats in another state, so be it. Elections do have consequences.

-- Posted by Bcat on Sun, Mar 13, 2011, at 6:50 PM


Human rights are something we are born with.

The right of workers to associate with one another, gather together, and to agree democratically to negotiate for the same pay and benefits togther as if they were one person is independent of anyone or anything else.

Its a right. It does not need to be given by someone else nor does it require someone else's approval. Its a human right and that means each of us was born with it.

Anyway, whether you agree or disagree on the right of workers to associate, freely assemble, and excersise their free speech to state the conditions under which they will provide labor and the price of that labor, or not, The People -- the workers of this Nation -- far outnumber those who oppose the American worker. American workers have the numbers to overwhelmingly win elections when they band together, and that is exactly what is happening. We the People always win in the end and We Will Win this fight too.

Get used to it.

The Neoconservatives in Wisconsin -- specifically Walker and the entire Republican Party in Wisconsin -- are in deep trouble. Given the will of the majority in Wisconsin, I would predict that Walker will be recalled early in 2012 by the voters and his political career will be over...permanently. Also, from the looks of things it appears that the Democrats in Wisconsin will have a very large majority in the State Legislature after they finish recalling the 8 Republican Senators. I believe the winds of change are a blowin' in Wisconsin -- and the entire Nation. That is called "Democracy."

Its what happens when the Republicans forget that the folks who drive the trucks, build the houses, teach the children, protect us from the bad guys and fires, and perform all and every sort of labor in America -- are also eligible to vote.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Mar 13, 2011, at 3:06 PM

Mr. Xray,

When the Republican National Committee take their untold BILLION's per year in campaign contributions and spend that money on bribing politicians and influencing policies clear up to the President of the United States who is beholden to only rich folks for their organizing voters and their money and ONLY spend that money on Republicans, and then the negotiations are often between politicians who are in political debt to the RNC for their Campaign efforts and money, exactly how are the Tax payers being protected?

Well said.

-- Posted by Smart Dog on Sun, Mar 13, 2011, at 8:50 AM

What is not being talked about in Wisconsin's capitol is Goldman Sachs betting against state bonds after facilitating their sale and selling school district pension funds CDO's squared (junk made from the junkiest). Big banksters welcome left vs. right food fights because it distracts the public from blaming them. "Too big to fail" rhymes with "no one goes to jail." Obama is Wall Street's poodle.

-- Posted by former editor on Sun, Mar 13, 2011, at 8:41 AM

news... come on... collective bargaining is a Right? LOL How can something be a right when it depends on someone else, tax payers in the Public sector unions case, to provide that right to them? Rights cannot be provided, only protected.

When the Unions take their 7 BILLION per year in Collected Dues and spend that money on bribing politicians and influencing policies clear up to the POTUS who is beholden to Unions for their organizing voters and their money and ONLY spend that money on Democrats, and then the negotiations are often between politicians who are in political debt to the Unions for their Campaign efforts and money, exactly how are the Tax payers being protected?

Your idea of Rights is extremely skewed... typically liberal. It is not different than saying health care is a right... because a right is not something that someone else provides for you. In the healthcare example, the workers have a right to NOT work in the health care field and if there are not any health care workers or too little health care workers then your so called right would vanish...therefore not a right. However, in the Public sector Union issue, tax payers dont have the ability to protect their RIGHT to not contribute their hard earned money so other people can have cushy retirement benefits and health care benefits when those people obtaining those benefits do not have to contribute very much, if any of their own hard earned money to take care of their personal responsibilities...like paying for their own health care and retirement. Public sector and Private sector unions are two different issues... one funded ONLY by tax payers and one funded by consumerism where the cost of the benefits are paid for by adding HUGE costs to the goods and services.... either way harms poor people and the working class.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Mar 13, 2011, at 12:12 AM

In response to koeller77, if the folks walked out, would there be just a "silly fine?" Don't think so. Remember President Reagan in 1981? Take a gander at this site. http://eightiesclub.tripod.com/id296.htm

-- Posted by t-bone picker on Sat, Mar 12, 2011, at 10:30 PM


If the State legislature and the Governor no longer recongnize the contract, the wildcat strike clause no longer is in effect.

As to laws prohibiting strikes...can they physically force workers into performing labor?

I don't think they can.

Can they stop Wisconsin public workers and other workers from exercising their right to peaceful assembly -- guaranteed by both the Wisconsin State Constitution and the National Constitution?

(Wisconisn State Constitution, Article I, §4

Right to assemble and petition. Section 4.

"The right of the people peaceably to assemble, to consult for the common good, and to petition the government, or any department thereof, shall never be abridged.")

I don't think so.

A general strike is where ALL the workers -- public workers and non-public , union and non-union alike -- refuse to work until all their demands are met and hopefully attend the protests. To be specific, a general strike is where everyone who is paid a wage refuses to work and insist on protesting in a public place until the demands of the People are met...and make no mistake about it, the American worker IS the majority. They ARE the "We the People"

Oh yes a general strike is possible, and I don't see any constitutionally valid law can prevent that. The key is for the unions to officially not call for the strike but rather that it be done simultaneously by the workers without involvement by the union leaders in the organizing of the general strike. Laws that prohibit striking by public workers are generally only punishable by a fine on the union itself. In a general strike, no specific union calls for the strike. Rather it is something all workers agree to do and do it at the same time while also attending mass protests.

It worked in France. It worked in Egypt (where all strikes were unlawful at the time).

Remember mate, we way outnumber the rich and we can definately outvote them too. We can change laws too if we want to.

But I would never let some silly fine of union leaders keep me from participating in a general strike. Struggling against the oppression of the wealthy Koch brothers and their fellow travellers, the Republican Party, is not going to be easy -- it was never easy before. Fighting back involves discomfort and struggle. The key is to make it even more painful for the rich and to get out and vote in the next election to get the bad guys -- the Republican Party -- out of power and in the mean time -- GENERAL STRIKE!!

The struggle for good pay and benefits -- and the right to negotiate collectively for the pay and benefits is just that -- a struggle. But We the People will win this struggle again -- as our forefathers and foremothers did before us. We Will Win!!

In fact mate, the only folks who can stop us, The People, is us. So, either we watch our cherished traditional American right to collective bargaining disapear and the road to our oppression cleared for the rich to travel down, or we can fight back.

Woody Guthrie~ "All You Fascists Bound To Lose"


Woody Guthrie: "Ludlow Massacre"


"Hard Travelin'" - Woody Guthrie


-- Posted by news across on Fri, Mar 11, 2011, at 5:39 PM

Thanks Pat!

-- Posted by patron on Fri, Mar 11, 2011, at 4:40 PM

Does anybody know if the new pub in the old Generations building is still going to open on St Patty's day?

-- Posted by patron on Fri, Mar 11, 2011, at 11:50 AM
Response by Pat Nolan/Staff writer:
I spoke with owner Pat Madigan. The restaurant will not be open for St. Pat's Day. There are a number of construction-related issues that are still being worked on. I posted a short article on it and we'll have a longer one next week.


Here's one recipe that I use all the time for my rhubarb upside-down cake. It's from Betty Crocker & is easy-peasy! Check it out:


I'll try and find the other one....

-- Posted by koeller77 on Fri, Mar 11, 2011, at 10:40 AM

LOL - Yes, I can use the internet for personal uses throughout the day, within reason. Obviously, if I'm not getting my work done, it would be an issue. You'll notice there are days where I don't post at all because I'm so crazy busy! No, it's not negotiated by my union - it's a campus-wide policy. I also occasionally access & blog from my phone as I'm walking things across campus (multi-tasking!!!) or on break.

BTW, Nanadot - GREAT piece from Fox!

News - there are many people calling for a general strike - unfortunately, public unions in Wisconsin, by statute, cannot strike. Unlike our governor, who doesn't particularly care for laws, most of us feel it prudent to follow this particular law and have restricted our rallying & protesting to either break times, scheduled vacation time, or outside work hours! We are also fortunate at my university to have a very sympathetic administration who is encouraging us to voice our opinion and supporting us every step of the way!

-- Posted by koeller77 on Fri, Mar 11, 2011, at 9:36 AM

whether or not K77 is allowed to blog at work is immaterial, His/her points are still valid and a concerning insight into whats happing.

btw. If you are getting your job done and Blogging I`m proud of you. many People in this country don`t work at all. (some as a result of personal sloth and many as a result capitalistic greed in the great american governmental corporation.)

keep it up.

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Fri, Mar 11, 2011, at 9:26 AM


There are 2 and only 2 things any corporation -- and most other employer's care about -- remaining solvent and making a profit. Governement also expects a payoff and to keep that agency solvent but their payoff is measured in terms of productivity and effectiveness. Despite the difference in how they measure the profit both are concerned with those and only those 2 goals.

That is all the stockholders care about.

That is all the board of directors cares about.

That is all the CEO cares about.

So, in order to achieve these 2 goals corporations extract as much incoming revenue from their business operations as is humanly possible. This includes running their business as efficiently as is humanly possible. So corporations and other employers, dedicated to those 2 goals, operate at as little cost as they possibly can. In short, it means they want to cut their labor costs as much as they can without negatively effecting production. So giving out benfits -- which they view in terms of cost in dollars -- is not something employers are anxious to do. What they would really prefer is for you and me to work for wages so low that its almost slave labor. Fortunately, we have regulations that prevent that, but that is their preference since it contributes to their 2 goals -- remaning solvent and making a profit. There is no internal pressure for the employer to provide benefits.

Consequently, only external pressure can push an employer to provide benefits. Such pressure comes in different, but often related, forms such as collective bargaining by the union of the workers at that place of employment, or it may be the effect of competing for employees with union shops who are offering the workers the employer is seeking higher wages and/or better benefits, or it may be outside pressure on the employer in the form of Government regulation...just to name a few. However, without these outside pressures there would be no benefits at all.

The empirical evidence supports this. During the Gilded Age, large monopolies and oligapolies dominated America's economy and had a great deal of control of our Government. During this period -- a period that saw few unions as we understand them today (most unions then were trade unions with little or no rights for the workers) -- most Americans -- the average American -- was poor as dirt and a slave to his employer and recieved no benefits at all short of very long, hard hours of work for very very little pay.

So...are secretaries at college campuses get "break-time internet privleges? Maybe they do or maybe they don't but one thing is for sure -- if they do have that benefit its not because their employers wanted to be nice.

Being nice only contributes to their 2 goals when it is directed towards the customer.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Mar 11, 2011, at 4:25 AM


Thanks for keeping us posted on the attack on the middle class thats happening in your home state of Wisconsin.

Whats happening there is one of the best examples that we could give of the corrupt and dishonest officials that are allowed in Government offices and try to use it for their own benefit regardless of who is affected.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Thu, Mar 10, 2011, at 10:58 PM

"Tens of thousands gather at Indiana's statehouse to support workers' rights"


-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 10, 2011, at 10:42 PM


Several days ago you mentioned that you are a secretary on a college campus. Your blog entries seem to appear throughout the day on a regular basis. I'm just curious. Are you allowed to blog from work? If so, is that a concession that was negotiated by your union?

-- Posted by Bcat on Thu, Mar 10, 2011, at 9:56 PM

...and remember folks,


-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 10, 2011, at 4:47 PM

Right now every worker in Wisconsin, union and non union alike, should go on strike until Walker agrees to resign and the State Legislature of Wisconsin starts revering that anti-American-worker law.

Until then trucks should not move, stores should be empty of employees, and nothing should be built...until these Republicans do the right thing and reverse that legislation.


-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 10, 2011, at 4:37 PM

According to MMA on May 2nd, 1933, the day after Labor day, Nazi groups occupied union halls and labor leaders were arrested. Trade Unions were outlawed by Adolf Hitler, while collective bargaining and the right to strike was abolished. This was the beginning of a consolidation of power by the fascist regime which systematically wiped out all opposition groups, starting with unions, liberals, socialists, and communists using Himmler's state police.

Fast forward to America today, particularly Wisconsin. Governor Walker and the Republican/Tea Party members of the state legislature are attempting to pass a bill that would not only severely punish public unions (with exception for the police, fire, and state trooper unions that supported his campaign), but it would effectively end 50 years to the right of these workers to collectively bargain.


-- Posted by cheesehead on Thu, Mar 10, 2011, at 3:59 PM

Breaking News out of WI: State Legislators have voted to strip public employee unions of almost all collective bargaining rights. The bill now goes to the governor for signature.

It's a sad day to see that democracy and reason have died in my state.

-- Posted by koeller77 on Thu, Mar 10, 2011, at 3:56 PM

Back in the Day: Someone always has to take the first step...go for it! Find out how to recall someone and organize your friends, family, etc. and go for it!

-- Posted by koeller77 on Thu, Mar 10, 2011, at 1:55 PM


Well good luck hopefully Wisconsin can be an example for others who try to take away rights of their citizens by recalling a few if not all of them.

I wish someone down here would start an effort to recall Vicky Hartzler she is trying to do the same in our state.

-- Posted by Back in the day on Thu, Mar 10, 2011, at 12:56 PM

Back in the Day - It will be interesting to watch this unfold...there are elements of the bill passed last night that are clearly fiscal - increases to my pension payments & health insurance payments. They can't pass those without a quorum of 20, which they did not have. I think the Republicans in WI just put the nail in their coffins for their recalls!

-- Posted by koeller77 on Thu, Mar 10, 2011, at 11:26 AM


All these days have passed and those Senate Republicans insisted it wasnt about taking away the people of Wisconsin's rights and then they turn around and do a backroom deal that does exactly that. What a shame hopefully they all get recalled. God Bless the people of Wisconsin!

-- Posted by Back in the day on Thu, Mar 10, 2011, at 11:06 AM

To those of us talking about unions before...Did you all see that the Republicans in WI split the collective bargaining piece from the bill last night and then convened a session to pass that portion stripping collective bargaining rights from public sector workers? It goes to the Assembly today, and then to Dictator Walker. Here's more info at the Wisconsin State Journal: www.madison.com/wsj

I'm proud to say that the Republican Senator from my district - Dale Schultz - was the lone "No" vote in the chamber.

-- Posted by koeller77 on Thu, Mar 10, 2011, at 7:44 AM

OOPS! Sorry upsedaisy! I forgot! I'll try and remember to grab the recipe at lunchtime to post!

-- Posted by koeller77 on Thu, Mar 10, 2011, at 7:42 AM

At the end of January there was conversation on here about rhubarb. Seemed to be a consensus builder--conservatives and liberals agreed that rhubarb pie was mighty fine. Koeller 77 promised a recipe for rhubarb upside-down-cake. I've been checking but haven't found it yet.

Just had rhubarb crisp last night. It was extremely tasty. Grandson #4 polished off the rest this a.m. for breakfast. (Oatmeal topping and fruit+glass of milk=balanced nutrition:)

Ignored the warning about not eating it till May. Never had heard that admonition. There's a similar warning about oysters isn't there?

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Wed, Mar 9, 2011, at 11:46 PM

I find it hard to believe the here in our country where we are supposed to be the greatest model of Democracy in the world that we elect people that would in one way or another try to find ways to stop citizens from voting.

We try to help pave the way for Democracy in the world even when we know most countries have different beliefs than us yet some try to pull the rug out from their own citizens. This makes me sick to my stomach and this is hypocrisy at its finest.

-- Posted by Back in the day on Wed, Mar 9, 2011, at 9:41 PM


Good point. The organization I am affiliated with registered over 300 students at MVC prior to the last General Election.

The students had and have a hunger to have their voices heard and be part of the system. College administrators call and ask us to come back to register strudents to vote because there were some we missed and those who were not going home to vote, decided to register as vote her in Marshall. (Students, living on campus, Vote at the Presbytarian Church.)

The high schools are bursting with students who are 18 or will be 18 by the next election, who want their voices heard and they are being heard thru the ballot. That is DEMOCRACY.

Voter fraud, there is not any voter fraud.

-- Posted by CWilli on Wed, Mar 9, 2011, at 2:09 PM

I find it to be Hysterically Ironic that the same people who slash out country`s education budget have the guts to say that the college age voters are foolish in their voting habits. Had they actually been educated and forced to use any of the stuff they learned in practice they would make better choices. Still liberal, but better.

I have been noting this for quite some time now. Our country is no longer a democracy; it has become oligarchy ruled by the few in the country with enough money or fame to sway the elections. (The Governator, The Body Ventura, Ted Turner, the Bushes,) the ruling class is doing its best to make a real education a difficult thing to attain and so cost restrictive that only the rich can afford it. Next comes Feudalism. Yeah! I can't wait to be a serf

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Wed, Mar 9, 2011, at 9:25 AM

Current Missouri law regarding college voters:


-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Mar 9, 2011, at 6:06 AM


It won't exactly be brought to us as a choice between allowing college kids to vote or not in the districts they attend school, but it will be wrapped in some voter fraud prevention bill.

They will have to claim that fraud is occuring among college students to do so, but the real reason is that a majority of new voters in most regions but not all tend to vote for Liberals. It actually about more voter suppression.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Mar 8, 2011, at 6:41 PM

I don't see how having college students vote has caused any issues in our local elections.

It would be interesting to see how the college vote has/has not impacted our local issues.

Maybe, this would be a good poll question on the MDN.

I personally think that young educated minds are needed in politics if we want our country to grow.

-- Posted by litlmissme on Tue, Mar 8, 2011, at 4:50 PM


I'm not exactly sure but I think in Missouri there is no residence requirement in term of time living in the county as long as your registered in time. There isnt really a difference between living in dorms or having an apartment as long as its their primary residence. One lawmaker states college students voting habits are foolish, so much for Democracy.

However not only are they going to try to take away the voting rights of college students they are going after those who rent also by trying to suppress votes any way they can.

The first step is to minimize the amount of forms you can use to vote then its to take away voting rights from college students then if they can achieve that it will be those who rent.



-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Mar 8, 2011, at 3:59 PM

Red Dog -

What determines their primary residence? Is it where they live (because the dorms are not full time, after all, but they're still there 9 months out of the year), is it where they get the bills for their tuition, is it the address on their driver's license, what?

-- Posted by koeller77 on Tue, Mar 8, 2011, at 3:59 PM

Primary RESIDENCE determines where one votes. It seems pretty cut and dried. That is one of the reasons for absentee ballots. Why try to bring on an argument over a non-issue?

-- Posted by red dog on Tue, Mar 8, 2011, at 3:24 PM

Cheesehead -

I'm divided...if they're just living in the dorms, and not really putting down roots, I think they should vote in their hometown.

If they have actually taken up residence in an apartment, I think they should change their driver's license address and then yes, should be voting in the town (and local election) in which they live. If they're not willing to change their driver's license and actually commit to living in the town, they shouldn't be voting there.

-- Posted by koeller77 on Tue, Mar 8, 2011, at 2:49 PM

well Cheesehead,

I think its a great idea but there is no way that the conservative republican core of this town is going to allow such an influx of young liberal forward thinking votes to change the age old ways of doing things.

with a bunch of young adults ready to call 'foul" at the back alley dealings that go on the WHOLE town would have to actually follow the laws and regulations in place instead of the way things are handled presently.

no, Kathy I`m not making any accusations to which Eric should be alerted, just predicting the future.

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Tue, Mar 8, 2011, at 2:43 PM

There are several states that are proposing that college students not be allowed to vote in the towns they live in, but rather make them vote where their parents live.

I think that if students want to come and live and attend school in Marshall they should be allowed to vote here. What does everyone think about this law that will be coming to Missouri sooner than anyone thinks.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Mar 8, 2011, at 12:56 PM

Honest to Pete folks. How many here has, or would, kick one of their children from the fold simply because the magic age was reached? It that action is in your makeup, I feel sorry for you.

-- Posted by red dog on Tue, Mar 8, 2011, at 12:25 PM

That was dedicated to the daughter I never had (since the current thread is kids).

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Mar 8, 2011, at 11:36 AM

It is a gray dreary day here. The following popped into my head. So, I thought I would share my momentary shift from prosaic to poetry.

A sweet young girl upon a lark

strolled one night in a park

there she saw a black velvet sky

sparkling sequins met her eye

dizzy then she fell in a swoon.

Sit on the edge of a sliver moon

swing your legs to a lovely tune

ask the stars to deliver soon

every wish made for June.

Soon enough you will have found

to the earth your feet are bound

Once in a while night morn or noon

remember the edge of a sliver moon.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Mar 8, 2011, at 11:32 AM

It seems like a lot of people look at having children as an 18 year "sentence" they must complete rather than the lifelong occupation it really is. Honestly, if that's the way they feel about it...why have kids at all?

-- Posted by imaloony on Tue, Mar 8, 2011, at 11:20 AM


Absolutely mate, some folks push their kids out the door way too early and then wonder why the kids are having a tough time adjusting lol lol lol.

With my kids I never set dates by which they had to move out on their own. I knew they would move out when they were ready...and they did.

I am pleased with how they matured and now have families of their own. I am not sure how things might have transpired if I had followed the "kick 'em out of the nest at 18" mindset...but I didn't and everythng turned out pretty well lol.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Mar 7, 2011, at 4:21 PM

As a parent you have one single task that overrides all others and is the single most important job you could ever choose to have. (Remember you chose the path that led you to procreate.)

You are responsible for showcasing your parenting skills by producing a functional member of society. a person who reflects your values and sense of responsibility. a person who actually makes the world a better place.

if it takes you 22 years to get the job done who cares? if you can get it done in 18 years, I am proud of you, good job.

who cares how long it takes? I think you should be Forced to keep you kids in your home until they can function in society: Keep a job, Pay the bills, keep the lights and water on, and get themselves from A to B.

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Mon, Mar 7, 2011, at 2:38 PM

It makes sense to me that children should be guided toward developing responsible independence of thought and action beginning in early childhood, so that, by the time they reach the legal adult age, they're better able to cope with the demands of being productive citizens.

Maintaining physical proximity by itself won't suffice if an enriching parent/child relationship was never established.

It does seem that certain segments of our society are finding it more and more difficult to live up to the responsibilities of parenthood, and forcing children to become self-sufficient beginning at age 14 or thereabouts would be one indicator.

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Mar 7, 2011, at 1:02 PM


For once, we are in total agreement. Even at 50, if I fell on hard times, I know my father would gladly take me in, as I would my own son. I would also gladly take care of my father if needed. I think the declining importance of family is one of the biggest problems in our country today.

-- Posted by Philemon on Mon, Mar 7, 2011, at 8:59 AM

News I endorse your concept of allowing one's children to remain at home as you stated. I also practiced that endorsement with my son in a single parent household, to no one's regret.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Mar 7, 2011, at 1:15 AM



Well this discovery really opens up a big can of worms for religion lol lol lol.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Mar 6, 2011, at 5:24 PM

Personally, I believe we push kids out the door way too fast.

Its not good for the family unit to push the kids out and its not good for the kids.

My Father and Mother, with their parent's full permission, moved away from home when they were 14 -- both of them. They worked and continued their educations and they were real believers in pushing the kids out at 18. In my family, the 18th birthday was also move out day. Fortunately for me, I had joined the Army and was deployed overseas on my 18th birthday.

However, I disagree with my parent's belief that kids should leave home at 18. Kids at 18 are usually not ready to assume all the responsibilies we ultimately face in life. Its been my experience that kids should move away from home in phases so that they learn to take on adult responsiblities gradually. I found with my kids, and watching other folks who also let their kids move out gradually -- when they are ready -- that it works out much better in the long run. By gradually learning to balance the difficuties of adult life, they are able to cope better than they would if all the full responsibilies of adulthood are thrust upon them in one day.

I believe that the family that stays together functions much better than one that forces the kids to move away from home too early.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Mar 6, 2011, at 5:22 PM

Uh Oh! Nasa scientists find evidence of alien life.


-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Mar 6, 2011, at 4:51 PM

why is a 20 year old still living at home?

-- Posted by blj on Sun, Mar 6, 2011, at 8:43 AM

Divorced mother of two, one is 14 one is 20, leaves town with boyfriend for 11 days. No adult presence in the home that entire time. Should we be concerned?

-- Posted by momaster on Sun, Mar 6, 2011, at 7:38 AM

former editor

Yes I have been reading Al Jazeera since 2000.

Its one of the best sources for International news and the news you can't seem to get in America as a result of the self-censorship of the news by many in the American media.

So yeah, I read Al Jazeera...

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Mar 5, 2011, at 2:15 PM

News Across - Reading Al Jazeera, are ya? Well, here's another one:


It's shocking to see them doing better coverage of the fraudy, Wall St. induced financial crisis than much of our traditional media. I often wonder how much money in property recording fees our county recorder did not get because of the fake shadow mortgage tracking scam called MERS, designed to speed up processing of toxic securities and save on recording.

-- Posted by former editor on Sat, Mar 5, 2011, at 8:25 AM

"Yemeni army 'fires on protesters'"

"Soldiers fire rockets at anti-government demonstrators in the country's north, killing four people, rebels say."


-- Posted by news across on Fri, Mar 4, 2011, at 6:11 PM

Smokin' Cheetah

Ok...but do you have horns mate?

I always watch out for horns.

I had a goat that had a pretty mean set of horns. Even when he was playing -- and they are very playful -- his horns were a constant, potential threat.

So maybe I am just being a bit too cautious, but I watch our for horns.

I am just kidding of course mate. Oh well I really did have a pet goat though lol. That part was true lol.

SC, I was just being friendly when I used a shortened version of your forum name. I meant no offense mate. I will use SC for now on.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Mar 4, 2011, at 5:33 PM

Smokin' Cheetah's ordinance find and interpretation sound plausible, but I checked with the police department and was told that the pertinent ordinance is

Sec. 29-96. City-wide speed limit prescribed; presumption of violation.

which states that the speed limit in Marshall is "(25) miles per hour, unless a different speed limit is otherwise lawfully posted" and since there are no speed limit signs posted on the square, the enforceable limit is 25 mph.

My own observation is that most vehicles do not exceed 15 mph because they have to stop before entering the square and only have a block to accelerate before negotiating another interection.

There are exceptions, of course, and I've seen a few of those, too.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Fri, Mar 4, 2011, at 5:19 PM

Smokin' Cheetah,

If you was reading the post would state on March 2nd of my Dear Diary post I was aware the speed limit was 15 yet no post of this.. so others could know and slow down

My main purpose was for Amy because she was one posting so I did my investigation as well.

I have read and very much aware of the city ordinance yet

The point I am trying get across here that others is not aware of this and the speed is not being 15 they are going much faster and 2 lives was hanging in middle of a cross walk that I watched from driving behind the vehicle ....

yet thanks for the hard work you put in this as well

So maybe if we all get up and decide solve the problem past posting and looking up ordinance we can put signs where they can be observed for people to see and know where it is meant to be not blocks away or on another street going into or away from

Then our police officer can enforce this and tickets be issued ....smile

-- Posted by momandgramma on Fri, Mar 4, 2011, at 4:11 PM

Amy Crump,

Hope you are not driving about still finding speed limit signs lol....

Yet the matter is still at large here and appears be a problem, do we or do we not know what the speed limit is on the square?

Fact has been made we know we have couple different post and 25mph going into the square ( block and half away ) 20mph heading north from the square and another 20mph headed opposite of square .....so, my question again is does anyone know what the speed limit is on the square ....not what it might be or where it might / might not be posted or where / or where not is posted

Thanks for all the hard work and driving time you put into this yet still unanswered questions

-- Posted by momandgramma on Fri, Mar 4, 2011, at 2:13 PM

Just guessing, but is it possible the alleged preponderance of tickets written to college-age students has more to do with that age groups tendency to speed and break other traffic laws? And other laws like underage drinking?

Just a guess - after all, there is a reason that car insurance rates are higher for that age group.

-- Posted by koeller77 on Fri, Mar 4, 2011, at 2:13 PM

counting the people in the court room and counting the number of tickets written/paid is very different. college kids pay up quickly to avoid parents finding out. they make a great source of income for the city.

In 1997 when I enrolled in MVC my advisor said to me point blank: "Watch out for the cops. They dont wanna ticket their neighbors so who do you think they go after?"

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Fri, Mar 4, 2011, at 2:07 PM

Just a reminder, BFG - I am not on the staff at the newspaper. If you are accusing local law enforcement of profiling or of conducting illegal searches, you should discuss that eith Eric Crump, the editor. I assumed you were talking about traffic stops generally; apparently that is not the case.

That said, I can say that I did not see, in my more than two years covering the courts here, a preponderance of college students charged with any crimes, by any stretch of the imagination. There were some, but really not many overall.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Fri, Mar 4, 2011, at 1:26 PM

ask any 5 college students or coaches about local police and their totally legal searches.

I won`t give any specific situations until I get permission from the complaining parties to use their story. But I will be speaking with several of them after work this evening.

even better! ask the Phi Beta Sigma fraternity and see what kind responses you get.

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Fri, Mar 4, 2011, at 12:00 PM

Okay, BigFatGy - Gotta hear the story on this one. Local law enforcement folks target college students because they don't vote here? May we have an example, please?

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Fri, Mar 4, 2011, at 10:52 AM

I am very sorry I must not have been clear in my last post. I was trying to say what I meant with out saying it but I now see that I failed.

I meant to say that the marshall police and state guys target college students because they dont vote in the area.

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Fri, Mar 4, 2011, at 10:24 AM

has anyone heard any more of the "irish pub" that was supposed to open on st pats day?

-- Posted by awake on Thu, Mar 3, 2011, at 11:30 PM

Amy crump,

Thanks and the one on Arrow Street is going into the square posted 25 mph....

So we can assume poke and hope so which ever street you are entering is speed you can actually go on the square??

If we can determine what actual speed limit on square is

Hope we can get this issue figured out soon

-- Posted by momandgramma on Thu, Mar 3, 2011, at 7:24 PM

There are two signs that have 20 mph limit on them: one at Odell and Morgan and one at Odell and Marion.

Obviously, the one at Marion is heading away from the square but the one at Morgan is going into the area of the square.

-- Posted by Amy Crump on Thu, Mar 3, 2011, at 5:33 PM


The rental car we got from the place at the airport in Kansas City had an Illinois plate on it. We drove all over Marshall for two days and no one paid us any mind, but that's just one instance.

Relative to the speeding traffic around the square, we were up there walking around on a Sunday afternoon and I noticed most of the vehicles using the streets around the courthouse seemed to be in a big hurry. It was about 4pm and we were the only pedestrians. It was like a few frames from an old Twilight Zone episode.

We didn't happen to notice any speed limit signs, but I was a little surprised at the briskness of the sparse traffic passing by.

For reasons maybe not completely agreeable with me, our society has been encouraged to go at a faster pace nowadays.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Mar 3, 2011, at 5:22 PM

BigFatGuy: You said "I wish I could aggree with you but have you ever tried to drive around marshall with an out of state licence plate? or while being brown?"

I can't speak to the issue of "being brown," but I can certainly discuss out-of-state plates. No one in law enforcement ever approached me (when I was new in town and had different plates), nor has anyone who has visited me from out of state had any problems with that at all.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Thu, Mar 3, 2011, at 5:17 PM

I just checked with Marshall Police. There have been no officers injured recently.

-- Posted by Pat Nolan on Thu, Mar 3, 2011, at 4:05 PM


I was not aware one of our officers was injured ....what happened?

I will keep him in my prayers and his family

-- Posted by momandgramma on Thu, Mar 3, 2011, at 3:43 PM


I wish I could aggree with you but have you ever tried to drive around marshall with an out of state licence plate? or while being brown? While the original idea behind the confusing sign may have been saftey I don`t think thats what its for any more.

also on the topic of saftey I wonder how long the city is going to let the grass at the corner of 65 and vest get this spring. maybe we`ll be able to see the oncomming traffic this year!

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Thu, Mar 3, 2011, at 2:49 PM

Hey, speaking of confusing speed limits.

If you turn west on Hwy 240 from the 4-way stop at Miami and Hwy 240 (in front of Mid-States Seed)there are two speed limit signs about 200 feet apart. One says 35 mph, the other 45 mph.

What do you reckon the speed limit along there is?

According to the police, you can't get a ticket if you always obey the lower limit. Good logic there.

This is compounded by the fact that traveling west on 240, say coming from Slater, approaching the 4-way the speed limit is 45. After the 4-way it is apparently 35 for about half a block, where it then returns to 45.

I reckon maybe MoDot had an extra 35 mph sign that they wanted to get out of the warehouse.

-- Posted by Smart Dog on Thu, Mar 3, 2011, at 9:45 AM

Amy Crump,

The sign on Odell does read 20 headed north at stop light where old Sheriff station use to be

Where would that indicate that is suppose be for the square?

-- Posted by momandgramma on Thu, Mar 3, 2011, at 8:53 AM

When you are coming down Odell and get near the square, the speed limit signs read 20 mph. I will double check today to make sure I didn't "dream" it.

-- Posted by Amy Crump on Thu, Mar 3, 2011, at 7:46 AM

@ Gal66 MEEEE TOOO!! Something to do in Marshall would just be exciting! LOL. And something new!

-- Posted by valleygirl01 on Thu, Mar 3, 2011, at 6:19 AM

Just a heads up to any that may have ignored Pat Nolan's latest blog entry "A mechanic's perspective" thinking it was about auto repair. It ain't, it is about something much more in need of repair, and the neat thing is even if you have never busted a knuckle using a wrench, you should be concerned about his subject. Check it out.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Mar 3, 2011, at 12:53 AM

Amy Crump,

For the record I'm old school so I still do 15 on the square geeze someone still needs have a good eye on things

The signs coming into the square read 20 miles per hour.

-- Posted by Amy Crump on Wed, Mar 2, 2011, at 9:34 P

Please do correct me if I missed something

When I got off of work tonight I went one block down from all 9 entrance on the square and not once did I see a sign posted 20 on square ?

-- Posted by momandgramma on Thu, Mar 3, 2011, at 12:43 AM

Might be a good place set up a speed trap ....

bet they can make some money or stop the speeding

-- Posted by momandgramma on Wed, Mar 2, 2011, at 9:41 PM

The signs coming into the square read 20 miles per hour.

-- Posted by Amy Crump on Wed, Mar 2, 2011, at 9:34 PM

Red dog,

I kinda thought it was like that, small price we pay for a accident or a life

Personally who ever thought of that was not thinking period....

Who has tried backing out when they are flying around 25 miles per hour and switching up the lanes at last minute ?

Maybe this is something our city administrator can check into and have signs re posted for beauty of saving a life or a accident

-- Posted by momandgramma on Wed, Mar 2, 2011, at 9:28 PM

Ouch! I said left turn. Right turn would be correct.

-- Posted by red dog on Wed, Mar 2, 2011, at 7:45 PM

The speed limit on the square is indeed 25 mph. The city wide rule applies because someone in all their wisdom decided to not put the 15 mph signs back up when the square was "beautified". Someone in charge decided the signs would detract from the beauty. The no left turn signs are gone also. Someone decided they also would detract from the beauty. Instead, we now have arrows painted on the pavement indicating the driver should turn left only.

-- Posted by red dog on Wed, Mar 2, 2011, at 7:40 PM


You make me laugh!

Thanks, I needed a good laugh today!

-- Posted by litlmissme on Wed, Mar 2, 2011, at 5:42 PM

Dear Diary,

Today I seen a lady driving a red escort, (moose) wish she could hear me holler the figure in middle of the cross walk holding a figure was humans, it was a lady carrying a beautiful little girl in a pink coat that you almost smashed over

Is speed limit still 15 on square?

If not maybe it should go back being 15, 25 is wayyyy to fast

Maybe tomorrow be a better day if she reads this and comprehends English

-- Posted by momandgramma on Wed, Mar 2, 2011, at 5:31 PM

valleygirl01 I would go see it!

-- Posted by Gal66 on Wed, Mar 2, 2011, at 7:39 AM


These 2 are from Marshall! Sure wish we had an MMA show in Marshall, Sedalia can support 2 shows in the same night, you would think we could support at least one.

What are thoughts on bringing an MMA show to Marshall?

-- Posted by valleygirl01 on Wed, Mar 2, 2011, at 5:30 AM

Chief Editor of Wikileaks, Julian Assange nominated for Nobel Peace Prize.


-- Posted by news across on Wed, Mar 2, 2011, at 1:13 AM

Yeah but Scoop, you have to admit Cheet's got a great sense of humor.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Mar 2, 2011, at 12:53 AM

Here's my way of saying good morning to all you hootowls :)


-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Mar 1, 2011, at 7:18 PM

Does anyone know when the animal swap is at the fairgrounds this spring?

-- Posted by OMG! on Tue, Mar 1, 2011, at 6:24 PM

"Fox News reporter appears to have lied about being 'punched' by protester"


-- Posted by news across on Tue, Mar 1, 2011, at 4:04 PM

Koeller, I'm pleased that you'll have an opportunity to catch up with it. Being on satellite, I have one shot at the initial broadcast, since the others are on the cable.

It's good that PBS makes its full programming available online, although only briefly (the Triangle story expires March 3rd).

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Mar 1, 2011, at 3:08 PM

OKR, NOW look what you done went and did!

I saw Esau down in Arkansas saw with a saw outsaw any saw I ever saw saw!

(Oh, please stop!)

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Mar 1, 2011, at 2:59 PM

Thanks, Slater! I'll either watch it online, or it looks like it'll be on again in my area on March 2nd. YAY! I wish I could claim closer relation to Sarah...she is my aunt's husband's great-grandmother, but I decided I'm a shirt-tail relative :-) From the stories I hear, though, she was a pistol!

-- Posted by koeller77 on Tue, Mar 1, 2011, at 12:00 PM

Slater, re: your dark roasted blend link. Thanks to you...here it comes...I saw that. (groan). ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Mar 1, 2011, at 11:09 AM


I'm sorry about the late post. I generally try to put those up in plenty of time.

However, here's the link to the online video of the program:


That's very interesting about your ancestors. I can just imagine the stories your great grandmother could tell about all of her work experiences.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Mar 1, 2011, at 10:06 AM

Thanks Eric

-- Posted by momandgramma on Tue, Mar 1, 2011, at 9:44 AM

Fox News reporters welcomed by the chants "Fox News Lies" in Madison, Wisconsin. You can only mess with the people so long before they begin to do the same.


-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Mar 1, 2011, at 9:40 AM


ARGH! I didn't see your post about PBS until this morning, and I'm so sad! That must be about the Triangle Fire in NYC. I hope that it will be on again soon!

That fire has family significance to us...my uncle's great grandmother, Sarah, survived that fire by throwing her coat down on the top of the elevator as it descended, and jumping on top of it. Her eventual husband read about the fire in a paper in Iowa (of all places) and came east to NYC specifically to find her!

The 100th Anniversary of the fire is March 25th.

-- Posted by koeller77 on Tue, Mar 1, 2011, at 9:16 AM

Heh heh...I might be inclined to say the artist(s) went out on a limb to accomplish these:


-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Feb 28, 2011, at 11:59 PM

This reminds me of that long-forgotten tune by Brewer and Shipley...um...darn! Can't remember the name of it!


-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Feb 28, 2011, at 11:41 PM

Thank you owl12345,

Yet I will wait on Eric since he has been one busting his buns to get all the information and might I add has done a wonderful job at it

-- Posted by momandgramma on Mon, Feb 28, 2011, at 11:24 PM

I haven't followed all the conversation about Connie Latimer working for free the first year. Has there been any mention that it's an illegal state ethics violation if she had moved into the city manager position and gotten paid that first year? And the three year contract when city ordinance limits it to two doesn't quite make up for working for free, but it's a nice perk as a tradeoff. She wasn't doing the city a favor by working for free, she was making sure she got the job. Finally, the city attorney declined to say what advice he gave his clients (city officials) due to attorney/client privilege. Aren't we his employer? And don't we employ the city officials? Instead of the editor constantly defending the city and its actions, I think the paper should impartially seek a legal opinion from out of town on what's been happening.

-- Posted by MG2008 on Mon, Feb 28, 2011, at 11:22 PM

I know for a fact that the city audit is generally 100+ pages of financial statements that the average reader cannot just pick up and understand. It would be very difficult to publish that in the paper.

-- Posted by Owl12345 on Mon, Feb 28, 2011, at 11:16 PM

Oh ya, and just for the record Smokin' Cheetah my best friend is a cop in this town, so im not saying cops are bad, im just saying that was the wrong thing to do, he could have helped the citizen and pushed the car back in the drive. Its not like the citizen woke up that morning had a cup of coffee and planed to make his car stall in the middle of the street!!!

-- Posted by scoopmackenzie on Mon, Feb 28, 2011, at 10:40 PM

Thanks Eric,

I for one want to see the legal document of this audit, so how would I be able to obtain this information?

Or you posting audit in paper?

I still have many questions on this issue personally I have trust issues with city council get along gang, secret secret is so back in grade school ....again thanks for all the digging, Eric not trying get under your skin, just wanting some trust to surface

-- Posted by momandgramma on Mon, Feb 28, 2011, at 10:12 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
You can put in a request for a copy at the City Office Building, 214 N. Lafayette Ave.

Referencing the recent discussions about untions, some may be interested in tonight's American Experience on PBS.

It's about the 1911 fire in a New York garment factory that killed 146 workers and led to reform legislation.

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Feb 28, 2011, at 9:09 PM


Please forgive if I missed a post for you get more info posted

Response by Eric Crump/Editor:

No. The city didn't say there was no documentation. The city's financial records for last year were audited, as always, so we'll obtain a copy of the audit report.

Did you get the audit report?

Did we find out where, how, when,city spent the money that would have been paid to Connie? an do we have this documented proof?

We need show trust in our community, Right now, truth seems to be rare.

-- Posted by momandgramma on Mon, Feb 28, 2011, at 9:06 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
The audit report is due to be released at the next council meeting.

"Former Reagan official: If law fails, CIA will assassinate Assange"


-- Posted by news across on Mon, Feb 28, 2011, at 5:10 PM



For the record mate, I was born and raised in the US of A to parents who were born and raised in the US of A, to their parents who were born and raised in the US of A...all the way back to the 1750s.


...and while I certainly empathize with you mate regarding the lack of factually correct information within the mainstream media in the USA, most of my sources are infact...American...like you...like me lol. I do have to dig for the information quite a bit though.

You would be surprised how many of my own relatives back home there in the U.S.A. don't seem to realize that, yes, even here in Australia we have telphone, telegraph, and television lol lol lol...

Anyway...you do make some very good points in your comment.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Feb 28, 2011, at 5:09 PM

dear Gal 66

I am truely sorry for the delay. the non union roof on the house I rent allowed my non union electrical wireing to get wet and I had to live without juice or internet for a couple days.

I`m not making jokes. It happened. thank God my "new"(cerca 1989) gas lines are union work or I could have been cold aswell.

after this weekend`s events and the ready supply of union information brought to us by NewsAcross I dont really feel like I need to answer your questions from the other day.

I would like to point out that the money in America has muddied the water so much that we have to get out accurate and non propaganda filled information about unions from Australia.

Pat this looks like an issue for an article (why do we have to get accurate info from other countries?.....)

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Mon, Feb 28, 2011, at 12:01 PM

A sign of the times. http://www.democraticunderground.com/dis...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Feb 28, 2011, at 12:38 AM


I'm glad to see the Missourians are finally deciding to stand up against corporate greed, buts its only the begining. The people are tired of them taking income from us and giving it to the rich. Were prepared to take this fight from Missouri to Fox News to the Koch Brothers.

-- Posted by miss october on Sun, Feb 27, 2011, at 9:20 PM

News, I would think it's more of a Secret Service and safety issue more than anything else.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Feb 27, 2011, at 5:31 PM

"Rally in Missouri: 'Where are you, Mr. President?'"


Well President Obama...do you plan to break this campaign promise too?

"Flashback from candidate Obama: 'I'll walk the picket line with you'"


-- Posted by news across on Sun, Feb 27, 2011, at 3:50 PM


I sure wish you the best with that surgery mate.

Its never easy to have surgery and heart surgery is probably the most difficult.

I wish you and your family the best mate.

I am sure everything will be fine and you will be home in no time at all.

Hang in there mate...you can do this!

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Feb 27, 2011, at 3:44 PM

Well this Thursday I am going to have open heart surgery...And my thoughts are with my wife she has to deal with 2 developmentally delayed children..So she won't be up to visit me much in Columbia..So keep my family in your thoughts.

-- Posted by Jason1969 on Sun, Feb 27, 2011, at 11:15 AM

With Great Depression inspired regulation removed, the market was supposed to regulate itself. Self regulation required letting the big banksters crash out instead of socializing the loss for all of us to pay. Now they are riding high, and we're still in the dirt. Union/pension issues wouldn't be important except for Wall St., and the banksters are happy we're squabbling among ourselves instead of holding them accountable. See this link http://www.huffingtonpost.com/william-s-...

-- Posted by former editor on Sun, Feb 27, 2011, at 7:57 AM

So X supposing for the moment that you are right on every count. How do we stop the greed, the fraud, the corruption that brought us to where we are? Surely you of all people, a died in the wool libertarian purist are not going to suggest that word that is verboten to your group, REGULATION of greed, etc.?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Feb 27, 2011, at 12:01 AM

I went to the Oklahoma City support Wisconsin rally today at the state capitol. Only about 350 people showed. Where were all the teachers? Where were all the public workers? The largest identifiable group was, would you believe it, Teamsters union members. Koeller 77 you may not support them, but they support you.

Depressing turn out, but that's Oklahoma. I saw many familiar faces, those that attend all the progressive get togethers. That was about fifty people, so the rest, those with a close vested interest, three hundred tops. Very depressing.

We get what we deserve if we don't have the guts, nor the interest to fight back.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Feb 26, 2011, at 11:53 PM

I know, I know... you believe in the imaginary "Jobs saved" figure that Obama and his cronnies are always tossing around... that whole ideal that American citizens are stupid and will take the imaginary "jobs saved" data and believe it without question is exactly how we got to where we are now.... politicians trying to pull the wool over the eyes of all in the attempts to play to special interest groups while making us THINK they care about us... LOL

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Feb 26, 2011, at 9:50 PM

news... the more you talk the more you prove my point... YOU can ONLY talk in THEORIES... you villify One theory and uphold another theory but it is ALL based on THEORETICAL OPINION...

Theory has absolutely NO real life application because all economic theories operate on the basis of ideal parameters that are contingent upon ideal factors and variants in the operation of an economy AND, more importantly, biased by the theorists' opinions about as they "THINK" it should run, political beliefs or preconcieve outcomes that they are trying to formulate their theory to predict. Not to mention, they all ignore the TRUE human factors that affect economies in real life, things like greed for money and power or corruption by many factors and many other human variants and factors that influence and disrupt ANY economic theory because you cannot EVER predict the human factor or its effects. Heck, you cannot even get a consensus agreement on the cause of the Great Depression or the cause of its resolution in the minds of many theorists. LOL

The point is, be it monetary policy, fed reserve manipulations or any other type of economic manevuering my question STILL remains as it pertains to the current REAL LIFE situation.... exactly HOW has OBAMA and the Fed Government's concept of Spending TRILLIONS of dollars stopped the net loss of jobs, created MORE jobs or done anything to stop, slow or end this current economic recession? In fact, their policies, it can be argued, have INCREASED the severity of the recession because they are not honestly addressing the economy because they are all worried about re-elections. They did not let bad business plans fail and instead propped them up with tax payer money and NONE of the real problems have been fixed, nor even addressed. Fannie and Freddie are being left alone although some are pushing for their end. Financial companies are bailed out while small banks are being forced to close their doors due to the government policies and other factors.

The list goes on and on and it all comes back NOT to some theoretical economic gamemanship or ideal theoretical economic plan of any type, it all boils down to the corruption, the greed and power seeking that is taking place in DC. Career politicians who are worried about getting re-elected and obtaining campaign funds and sweetheard positions and etc do not care about economic theory or the economy as an honest concern independent of anything except "How do I get re-elected"

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Feb 26, 2011, at 9:47 PM


Ever run across any of those Funnel Web Spiders down under? iiiiiiiiccccccckkkkkk!!!!

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Feb 26, 2011, at 5:36 PM

former editor

Thank you for posting the link to that indepth, economic analysis of the effects of Big Banking on liquidity in our guided capitialist economy.

Dr. Black is right on target and smacked that nail flat on the head with one big hit.

Oh I apologize for the carpentry analogy...lol...I have been doing some remodeling here at the ol' homestead way down under...lol...

Anyway, I really enjoyed reading the Article.

Thanks again for posting the link.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Feb 26, 2011, at 3:54 PM

William K. Black, UMKC professor and white collar criminologist, says the financial sector is so out of balance with money, power and fraud that the standartd fixes won't work. See http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2011/02/how...

-- Posted by former editor on Sat, Feb 26, 2011, at 2:30 PM

"Live updates: Americans answer call to protest for workers' rights"


-- Posted by news across on Sat, Feb 26, 2011, at 1:18 PM

Oh and X-ray,

Monetary policy is not Federal spending policy.

They are 2 completely different things and have different purposes.

Monetary policy is primarily the use of the prime interest lending rate and the rate of return paid on T-Bills to either increase or decrease the price of money. It is designed to increase or decrease the money supply. It is generally and primarily used to cool down an overheated, inflationary economy.

It cannot and has never been successfully used to stimulate a deflated economy. Much like the Tax Multiplier, it just does not have enough punch to do the job. In fact, empirical evidence indicates that only the Federal Spending Multiplier has the strength to reverse a deflationary economy.

One of the advantages to taking the economics course I recommended is that those course will provide you with a good fundamental, general understanding of basic economics and how our guided capitalist economy functions. It would help you at least understand the terminology and basic economic mechanisms.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Feb 26, 2011, at 12:32 PM


You asked about the Federal Spending Mulitplier and how it produces jobs.

That is easy mate. Its a very well known concept in economics.

If you would take the survey courses I have recommended, Principles of Macro Econonmics I, Principles of Micro Economics I, and a course in Money and Banking, you would have already become well aware of how the Federal Spending Multiplier works.

It is a complex multiplier, but I will be happy to explain that mechanism to you at a later time,

But first,

let's stay with the topic at hand.

Can you please explain to me how cutting thousands -- maybe hundreds of thousands -- of government jobs and reducing the pay of unon members will increase consumption?

There is no doubt amongst economists that consumption is the engine of any guided capitalist economy -- especially the consumption of new housing and durable goods such as cars, refrigerators, airconditioners, ect.

And clearly when folks are layed off they put off purchases of durable goods and new homes.

So can you please explain to me how reducing the income of American workers will increase consumption.

Its a fairly simple question.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Feb 26, 2011, at 12:16 PM

State employees in Wisconsin have not had a wage increase in quite a few years. They have, for the last two years, also had to take 8 unpaid furlough days to help with purported budget problems. The governor then cut corporate taxes in January and now claims a larger deficit. And now forces employees to take yet another kick down the steps in the form of benefit reductions. It's a lot to swallow in one gulp, especially when you are already drowning. Conrary to what many have said, state employees are not necessarily paid higher wages than are paid in the private sector. At current rates of pay, in fact, Wisconsin state employees are a long way behind.

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Sat, Feb 26, 2011, at 10:07 AM


In regards the Wisconsin union flap, they were willing to make concessions in what they paid towards healthcare and pensions. The governor eliminating the right to collective bargaining in general is what they were really upset about.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Feb 26, 2011, at 8:12 AM

lol News... can you show me exactly how spending TRILLIONS of dollars and bailing out of big financials and autos corps and in a failed attempt by the government to 'stimulate' job growth has worked? Can you show me monetary policy that Obama is pushing is working to create jobs? How has removing more money from consumers and businesses to fund BIG GOVERNMENT wasteful spending helped created jobs or stimulate our economy?

But to your point about Union jobs... if a state has a budget crisis and since the state union workers were paying MUCH MUCH less percentage of their own individual benefits than were private sector union memebers then why is it wrong to expect that those people accepting tax payer donations to fund their salaries to be willing to pay for a larger percent of their own retirement and health care? Because the state government can decrease their spending by this measure it can SAVE jobs because the alternative is to lay people off, increasing those on government doles, unemployment, medicaid, welfare, food stamps, etc... are you not disproving everything you were trying to prove by your statement?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Feb 26, 2011, at 4:51 AM


For many years, the handful of very very rich people who own and control most of the means of production, distribution, and media in the USA, began disseminating a lot of mis-information about modern day unions in a massive propaganda campaign designed to create an anti-labor atmosphere in the USA. If you do a fact check you will learn the following facts about Unions -- and about the Teamsters Union and President Hoffa.

James Hoffa, Jr, was elected to his position and yes re-elected.

He is not a boss of any union member.

The President of both the International Brotherhood of Teamsters and all local Brotherhood of Teamsters are elected officials directly accountable to their constituency, the union member.

It is true that James Hoffa, Jr. did have an outstanding career as an attorney before becoming a member of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters and before being elected to the Presidency of the Union. However, he gave up his lucrative career in law to lead the Teamsters and has done an outstanding job. He could have kept practicing law like his sister did. She is now a Federal Judge in St. Louis.

However, most of the officals who interact directly with the members of any Union are found at the local union. These officials cannot and do not give orders to members. They take their orders from the membership and any offical who fails to satisfy the membership will find his job terminated by the union members at the next election. Marshall Teamsters belong to Local 41 which has its Union Members Headquarters in Kansas City. The local president and all the other officers, as with the International Union, are elected by the membership to fixed terms -- i believe 3 years is the period the members decided for Local 41 officers.

The officers of the union are no more the boss of the member than is their representative in Congress. These are elected officials who must answer directly to the people they represent.

Unlike the company bosses who really are bosses...and have no obligation to and are not answerable to the workers, the union officials work for the union members.

In a union, the union brother or sister is boss.

In addition, union members are protected under the ULP and by the Law of Agency which require the union officials to always act in the best interest of the union member. Failure to meet their fiduciary duty to the member can and has lead to unions being successfully sued by their members. The company bosses owe no such fiduciary duty to the employee what-so-ever.

The only boss in the workplace is the company boss.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Feb 26, 2011, at 1:23 AM

Um, news? Preachin' to the choir. I do think unions are good policy, but that doesn't mean ALL unions are "good." As to your questions, 3 words: James Hoffa, Teamsters. Overpaid boss, with too much power to hurt companies AND workers.

-- Posted by koeller77 on Sat, Feb 26, 2011, at 12:11 AM

@ Smokin' Cheetah

Yes I did say 10ft, but I guess I should have said 10ft OR SO, there was plenty of room on both sides and its not like they purposely parked their car there it quit and they could have pushed it back in BUT it was to late, the cop saw them and instead of helping push it back in they made him call a tow truck to have it towed 10ft OR SO.......which cost $75 or they could have helped a citizen out and helped push 10 ft OR SO........

-- Posted by scoopmackenzie on Fri, Feb 25, 2011, at 11:02 PM

"Exclusive: Non-partisan 'US Uncut' group demands corporations pay taxes"


-- Posted by news across on Fri, Feb 25, 2011, at 10:09 PM

Virtually every single economist in the World agrees that consumption is the engine that drives our guided capitalist economy.

There is not one voice of disagreement with that fact from any side of the economic "aisle."

Neoclassicalists and Keynesians all agree...consumption drives our economy.

When income outpaces production capabilities -- an overheated economy -- an inflationary gap can sets in. This is usually easily corrected by "cooling the economy down" by utilizing Government Monetary Policy. The amount of money in the economy is tightened by raising the prime rate and other methods. Its not real difficult to control inflation under normal conditions.

When income levels are below production capabilities, consumption drops, perfect competition sets in, prices and wages decrease, and unemployment goes way up.

So, given that decreasing consumption, a result of lower income, can push an economy into a dangerously spiraling deflation, can someone please explain to me how all the budget cuts and eliminating high-paying union jobs , which will mean far less consumption, will increase consumption and reverse the current recession/depression?

I bet you can't show that will increase consumption at all...not successfully anyway.

Is cutting a lot of jobs from the workforce in the middle of the worst recession/depression since the Great Depression really the wise course to follow?

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Feb 25, 2011, at 10:05 PM


In your comment you say,

"...the "out of control" unions that I'm talking about are the ones where the union bosses make multi-million dollars, where people who are twisting widgets are making $25/hour."

What is a Union Boss?

Every Union I have belonged to in my life only had elected officers. They were elected every 2 or 3 years by a direct vote of the entire Union Membership and most were also further limited by term limits.

Who are these Union Bosses you refer to?

Can you name them please.

Which wons are making zillions of dollars...which one?

Can you name them please?

As to the widget production, how much is the CEO of that company making...say in a 40 hour period?

How did you determine what level of value was added to the widget by the assembly process?

I mean, sure, it would be made cheaper if it was made by slave labor but since slaves don't buy widgets...in a society where all products and services are based on slave labor...who will buy the widgets and other goods and services?

Americans need and demand good paying jobs with good paying benefits, and good incomes mean increasing consumption. Unions are the best way to achieve that goal.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Feb 25, 2011, at 9:01 PM


In your comment you sak,

"Here to protect and serve?"

Have you ever seen them do that to a rich person?

Guess who the police serve and protect.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Feb 25, 2011, at 8:49 PM

Are you kidding me? A Marshall citizen backs out of their drive, gets into the turning lane goes to put it in drive and the car quits. But here is the kicker, he was no more than 10 feet away from his drive way, not blocking traffic, and caused no accidents. An officer shows up, and makes him pay $75 to get it towed back in his drive way? The citizen could have just pushed it back in his drive, but no he was made to call a tow truck and get it towed back in his drive. Here to protect and serve? or here to protect them selves and serve the other person to call the tow truck instead of helping push?

-- Posted by scoopmackenzie on Fri, Feb 25, 2011, at 3:00 PM

Solidarity! Thank you K7, after the lessons we are learning (finally), I believe that you, and many others would support similar causes if they cropped up in Oklahoma. You may have the opportunity soon as our educators, and public employees are under constant fire, to say nothing of every working man, and woman in the state.

I believe every one should keep an eye on Oklahoma as we are the canary in the coal mine. It is amazing that this state which began as one of the most populist progressive states not that long ago, is now the most repressive, regressive, and far right Republican in the nation. Watch us fall, and learn.

News, I have thought of a new motto, I thought I had placed it somewhere on these blogs, but at my age you can't remember where you put anything, or even if you did. That motto is, "First in the race to the bottom". All our condition of humanity stats support that.

On Wisconsin!

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Feb 25, 2011, at 10:52 AM

Oh, news -

Speaking of state mottos...Wisconsin's is "FORWARD!"

Most of us have decided to change it to BACKWARD!

-- Posted by koeller77 on Fri, Feb 25, 2011, at 8:57 AM

OKR - Thank you!!!

We got the bad news when we woke up this morning that our Assembly passed the bill last night...opening & closing the roll before the Deomocrats knew what was going on, before all the proposed amendments had been heard, and so quickly that only 13 of 38 Democrats were able to even vote in time. The Assembly Republicans have no shame!


-- Posted by koeller77 on Fri, Feb 25, 2011, at 7:51 AM

@news - the "out of control" unions that I'm talking about are the ones where the union bosses make multi-million dollars, where people who are twisting widgets are making $25/hour. There's not a lot of them, but they are out there and they give the rest of the union workers a bad name.

-- Posted by koeller77 on Fri, Feb 25, 2011, at 7:49 AM


I mean Oklahoma...lol

Typos...fast fingers...too fast...lol

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Feb 25, 2011, at 3:38 AM

"theocratic corporatocracy"

LOl lol lol lol lol lol...


Does the Great State of Oaklahoma have a State Motto?

...or perhaps they need a new one lol.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Feb 25, 2011, at 3:34 AM


Thanks for posting the Fox News piece. I have a lot of respect for Shep Smith. He is probably the only journalist at Fox that has not sold out his principles.

Great article mate!

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Feb 25, 2011, at 3:31 AM

koeller77 even here in Oklahoma, the first state in the nation to become a theocratic corporatocracy we are rallying in support of Wisconsin's cause. At noon on Saturday at the south steps of our capitol our voices will be heard though likely with numbers under-estimated, and message skewed by the worst metropolitan newspaper in the nation (per the Columbia Journalism Review).

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Feb 25, 2011, at 12:49 AM

New Wisconsin poll:

"When asked, 58 percent of respondents oppose eliminating collective bargaining, 57 percent oppose cutting wages for public employees and half are against cutting pension benefits for public employees. Independents (59 percent) don't like it much, either, nor do a third of Republicans, along with 78 percent of Democrats. Three out of four respondents said they opposed taking away public employees' collective bargaining rights, including nearly half of Republicans." http://www.thedemocraticstrategist.org/s...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Feb 25, 2011, at 12:22 AM

"One of the most elemental human rights (is) the right to belong to a free trade union."-Ronald Reagan 1982 http://blog.buzzflash.com/node/12392

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Feb 25, 2011, at 12:08 AM

Fox News: "Pretending Wisconsin is about a fiscal crisis is malarkey." http://www.mediaite.com/tv/shep-smith-pr...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Feb 24, 2011, at 11:43 PM

May 1933 Hitler abolishes unions. http://newsjunkiepost.com/2011/02/20/may...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Feb 24, 2011, at 11:30 PM

Lest we forget what our parents, grandparents, and great grandparents did for us...

We owe to them.

We owe to each other.

We owe it to ourselves.

Stay United. Stay Strong! Stay Union!!


-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 24, 2011, at 6:42 PM


Yep, Union shops are about the only place you can still find good health benefits...but those are going fast too as the workers at each plant are cajoled into giving up their health benefits.

Good on ya sister, and to your husband too for being union and for supporting your union.

I am a former Teamster, and I am rock solid Union for life!!!...or what is left of it lol.

When workers fail to unite and stay united, they face a future in a Nation where minimum wage is the only wage available and with the Republicans you can expect that to disapear as well.

Don't ever let the rich folks and their thugs fool ya...there are a lot more of us than there of them and We the People will win in the end. The Egyptians demonstrated that when they launched their National Strike and shut down the country during their protests.

And our Grandparents and greatgrandparents proved that when they fought hard, against all odds, against the big corps in order to establish Unions and the right of the worker to collective bargaining.

Stay strong! Stay United!!

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 24, 2011, at 6:18 PM

"Lawsuit: Fox News chairman Roger Ailes may have committed federal crime"


-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 24, 2011, at 4:47 PM


It is simpler than that.

A Union is the group of workers at a place of employment agreeing democratically to bargain as one entity rather than each individual competing against each other for lower and lower wages.

Union = you + your coworkers = union

Its that simple.

So which workplace got out of control as you said?

Who are these workers who got out of control?

Who is trying to control them?

When we talk about a union, we are talking about the workers at a place of work who have democraticaly agreed to bargain as one unit...the same way their employer "bagains" with them.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 24, 2011, at 4:43 PM

By some union standards in order to be awarded a position, the winner of the bid is the most senior applicant.

Really? You have been here 16 years so that makes you the most qualified to do a job? Not in some cases, but that is the union rule.

-- Posted by litlmissme on Thu, Feb 24, 2011, at 4:22 PM

Gal -

I'm always happy with a new convert :-) I'm like you - I want first hand numbers & information, and I'm always happy to give that information if I have it!

I have to say, too, that I agree with you that there ARE unions out there that are out of control. They have definitely played a part in some of the problems in larger companies, such as the automakers. BUT, I think they do have their place. I wish it was simpler!

-- Posted by koeller77 on Thu, Feb 24, 2011, at 1:00 PM


Keep setting the record straight because the only people getting raises in this country are the rich people who don't need it, but these people wont hear that on Fox News that the average worker here in the U.S. makes $400 less than in 1988. I'm 100% confident if we would have raised union memberships instead of decrease them than we would be making more than 20years ago.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Thu, Feb 24, 2011, at 11:44 AM

k77 thank you very much you have given me a lot of first hand information, to me that is the best kind.

I will give you this in your case I will say your union is needed ( bet you never thought you would get that out of me:-) )

I will never say that the need for unions does not exist but I do think the need has changed from what was started.

To me some unions have become the very thing they started fighting against big business!

-- Posted by Gal66 on Thu, Feb 24, 2011, at 11:42 AM

Gal -

Here's a good example of the UNDERpayments that WI state workers in a union have been receiving for years. In 1981, my best friend's mother worked in a position almost identical to my current position. She made $24,377. As we discussed previously, I make just over $29k. By using a simple inflation calculator found on the web, the $24,377 amount should now be $56,798.09.

Now, do I really think that I should be making that much? No, I don't, because I know my state doesn't have the money to pay me that much. However, as I said, what my union has done instead is negotiated lower payment for health insurance, more sick days, more vacation, and the ability to "bank" sick days & vacation time to be used at retirement to help pay for health insurance after retirement.

THAT'S why I believe in my union, and why I believe they need the ability to negotiate on my behalf. Without them, I'd still be making the $24,377 that my job was worth in 1981, and not have received any benefits or raises in 30 years.

-- Posted by koeller77 on Thu, Feb 24, 2011, at 11:15 AM

So BFG your saying that nearly every house and most building in Marshall have been built by less skilled workers and are often of poorer quality?

You know BFG I worked construction right here in Marshall building new homes for 5 years in the late 70's early 80's so I know a little of what I am talking about.

I will put the houses that got built by the builders in Marshall during those years up to any build by union labor.

You know just because someone is a union member does not make them a more skilled craftsman period!

BFB your so pro union do you live in a house or appartment built by union labor?

-- Posted by Gal66 on Thu, Feb 24, 2011, at 9:55 AM

he may not but I will say "...Buildings that arent built with union labor have less skilled workers and are often of poorer quality."

giving the bid to the lowest bidder isn`t the way to get the best product. period.

when every laborer on the job is drawing a decent wage and all of them are paying taxes and all of them are documented "on the books" the whole community benefits. when all of the guys on the roofing framing and paint crew are off the books and sending their wages to cental America or over seas (anybody who has ever worked construction knows what I`m talking about) the whole community suffers.

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Thu, Feb 24, 2011, at 9:36 AM

nouveaublogger - I can't tell you how many of us here in WI spent yesterday laughing our a** off about the phone prank!

-- Posted by koeller77 on Thu, Feb 24, 2011, at 7:59 AM

notgvnasht said

"The hiher than average pay rates we get for his highly skilled abilities benifit every person who walks into a building built by unions as well. Safer buildings, better trained workers."

Are you saying that buildings built by non-union workers are sub-standard?

Would your husband agree with that?

-- Posted by Gal66 on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 10:17 PM

koeller77 thank you for the open and honest answers.

notgvnasht I have a question for you does your husband draw prevailing wage and if so how much is that.

Do you think it cost more to have a building built by union workers?

What percentage of the buildings your husband works on are paid for by tax money?

Do you live in a house that was built by union workers?

-- Posted by Gal66 on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 10:12 PM




-- Posted by nouveaublogger on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 9:48 PM

These unions represent the working class of America and we should be glad there is still a system in place to fight for the middle class because its evident that these politicians will stick up for tax cuts for the rich and not the middle class. Its time to take back America and return it to the middle class.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 8:03 PM

Through the years I have witnessed several cases where people were summarily dismissed from their jobs due to incorrect judgements, management decisions that were unfair, sometimes stupid, even arrogant. Because they were members of a union these people were able to return to work and maintain the positions they had held in some cases for nearly a lifetime. The unions were the only thing that kept them from being stepped on particularly in this day of the "right to work" mantra. For that reason alone I would belong to a union if it were available to me and I would be more than willing to pay the dues.

-- Posted by broke-n-busted on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 7:59 PM

Easy! When we were unable to get $$raises, they negotiated alternate compensation - add'l vacay, sick leave, holidays. Also, when we were given furloughs, they negotiated for us to take them 2 hr. Increments to be able to use them More easily!

-- Posted by koeller77 on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 7:40 PM

k77 like BNR you have helped me to understand a lot better what is going on up your way for that I thank you.

One more question what has your union done the last 10 years that make you think you need them?

-- Posted by Gal66 on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 6:08 PM

I agree BNR.

-- Posted by litlmissme on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 4:35 PM

koeller77, you have enlightened me a great deal to what is happening in Wisconsin. Everyone needs to pay attention, because this is going to be happening all over the country soon.

Although I respect your stance, I have never been a supporter of unions for a number of reasons. It makes no sense to me to give my hard earned money to an entity that does not have to actually improve the quality of my work experience in order to continue to collect my money. You haven't had a raise in 10 years, but the union continues to get paid.

Look at the recent automaker debacle. In my opinion, the UAW is responsible for the near collapse of the American automobile industry. I wish for all my fellow Americans to make a good living, but it's ridiculous that an autoworker makes $55/hr for screwing in a glove box. Collective bargaining insured great wages, but it also resulted in skyrocketing car prices, and automaker bankruptcy. That's just not good business, and it affected the entire American economy.

Unions were beneficial during the American Industrial Age, as they helped establish acceptable and fair labor standards. Since then, I feel that unions have lost their effectiveness. Unions are businesses, and they do well even when the laborers they serve don't.

Again, I respect your position, k77, and I hope this all gets resolved quickly. Waiting and not knowing what is going to happen is a killer. I wish you and your fellow Wisconsin neighbors the best.

-- Posted by born-n-raised on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 3:48 PM

Gal -

Unfortunately, yes, I do believe that without a CBA we won't get merit raises because this bill also puts a cap on any raises we receive. We haven't had raises in 10 years WITH a CBA - why would they give us one without it? Even when there's been money, we haven't gotten one - and certainly not since the money dried up (hence the 3% furlough/paycut for the last two years). At least if we can sit at the negotiating table, there's still hope!

All I'm saying is that until we have the same protections in place as private sector & federal employees, state public workers should be able to join a union and be protected against despots like Walker.

-- Posted by koeller77 on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 2:40 PM


Thanks for the answers.

Do you really think with out a CBA you would not get merit raises or a raise of some sort if the money was there to give it?

I know Missouri is not your state but I want to point out something.

My better half works for the State of Missouri and yes they have a union but for the life of uswe have no idea what they do to our knowledge they do not have a CBA but then again you do not have to belong.

They do get raises it seems when there is the money.

Do you think it is right because there is a CBA that a company or in your case the state you give out raises if the money is just not there?

koeller77 I know it may not seem like it but I really do hope that this works out the best for you and your family.

We have been talking about this at work some and some of us think this is only the start of the people taking back the country from both sides of the isle.

-- Posted by Gal66 on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 2:15 PM

OH, and I forgot...my pension deduction is POST-tax, not pre-tax like your 401k...which means I have more deducted in taxes than if I had a 401k.

-- Posted by koeller77 on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 2:02 PM


#1) Is your pension 100% funded by you?

No, my pension is not funded by me. However, unlike a 401k, I am unable to stop any contributions to it or alter the rate of the contribution, in the event of economic hardship. I can also not withdraw it or transfer it should I leave my job. Nor can I get loans on it, and I have to wait until I am 57 to receive ANY payment from it, even if I have not been employed by the state for 20 years at that time.

#2) If 5.6% is $189.25 a month does that not come up to more than less than $30k you said you make?

5.6% is the amount of the pension contribution. We are also being asked to contribute 12.6% of our healthcare. I make, to be precise, $29,078 gross every year. I currently have $78/month coming out in basic healthcare costs, and .2% for pension, along with a 3.065% furlough/paycut deduction, for a total monthly deduction of $157.25 (1887.00/year). My 3.065% furlough deduction will end July 1. However, beginning April 1 (if this passes) we will have $208/month coming out in basic healthcare costs, and an additional 5.6% for pension for a total monthly deduction of $349.16(4,190/year). The difference is actually $191 (must have missed the .2% when I did it previously).

But AGAIN, this is not about the costs. I'll pay those costs, if we retain the right to collectively bargain, so that I have some hope of getting raises in the future - oh yeah, by the way - We don't get merit raises, or bonuses in good years. We have negotiate every single pay raise with the state and have it approved by the legislature.

-- Posted by koeller77 on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 1:33 PM


A couple of questions.

#1) Is your pension 100% funded by you?

I only ask because mine is and it is in the form of a 401k with no match.

#2) If 5.6% is $189.25 a month does that not come up to more than less than $30k you said you make?

Unless I am not reading the 5.6% right.

-- Posted by Gal66 on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 12:58 PM

Gal -

Sure, they could voluntarily end the program (for the entire company) - with proper notice, with notification that you are eligible for COBRA, etc.

However, they can't single out one "class" of employees. The bill up for debate initially attempted to single out a class of employees (called LTE's) and say they were prohibited from having health insurance through the state. That was legal.

My understanding is, as with most federal laws, the new health care "Obamacare", does not impact employees working for state governments. I could be wrong on that, though.

I currently pay $78/month for family coverage. And you know what? I know that it's low, and I'm willing to increase that. Even if I'm not willing, that part is likely to pass - and more than double, to $208/month. I will also have a mandatory, non-stoppable, non-adjustable 5.6% of my gross income taken out to go my pension. That amounts to $189.25 increase taken out of every month's paycheck.

The unions have agreed to take that nearly 10% hit from our paychecks. We just want to keep collective bargaining.

-- Posted by koeller77 on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 12:06 PM


ERISA protect employee benefit plans: benefit plans that are voluntarily established and managed by an employer, an employee organization, or both.

Here is a question I need to ask because I just don't know if the company I work at voluntarily established could they not voluntarily end that also?

With the new health care reform act I just do not know?

If you do not mind me asking what do you pay for your health insurance?

I pay over $300 a month for me and one child.

-- Posted by Gal66 on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 11:36 AM

Gal66 - I understand your point of view, but at the same time, this isn't just about the teachers, firefighters, or police.

This is also about workers like me, a secretary. Who, as a state public worker, does not have the same federal protections that a secretary at, say, a bank does. I don't have ERISA protections to keep them from taking my health insurance completely away with no warning. I don't have age discrimination protections. It is my UNION that protects me from those things - and only my union. It is unions that created the 40 hour work week, unions that made it so I have to get paid overtime for more than 40 hours, unions that made it so I get breaks, and a lunch hour.

I don't make a fortune - heck, I don't even make $30k a year. And I'm one of the better paid secretaries on my campus. You're right - without a college degree, I shouldn't be making more than the professors, and I don't.

Until the federal government sees fit to protect every worker in America - not just federal & private sector workers - state workers need their collective bargaining to protect them.

-- Posted by koeller77 on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 11:16 AM

koeller77 Please do not take this as an assult on teachers because I have a great deal of respect for teachers for the most part they are underpaid there is now way in hell a person like myself with no education past high school should be making more than a good teacher that has been on the job for some length of time.

I have a younger brother that has a PHD in chemistry he worked in the private sector for a years but his company closed it's operation in St Louis and he is now teaching in a collage and does not make much more than I do.

For the most part it's the same for police and fire fighters.

I just don't see the need for collective bargaining sorry.

-- Posted by Gal66 on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 10:39 AM

Thank you, Koeller. Wow! I hope this is resolved soon. Good luck.


-- Posted by missy08 on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 10:25 AM

@Gal66 - I agree with you. I am terrified that our union will go on strike (which is illegal in our state, by the way - see my note to newsacross). If that happens, I will HAVE to be a strike breaker. I can't afford to not be at work, or to lose my benefits, or to lose my job. I simply can't.

I'm not sure striking is the answer - I much prefer the peaceful protests we have to this point. It appears that at least a couple Republicans may have gotten the message, and we might at least be able to compromise (fingers crossed!)

-- Posted by koeller77 on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 10:13 AM

@Missy08 - the issue in Wisconsin is a little bit different than union vs. non-union. This bill specifically limits/prohibits STATE workers from collective bargaining because we are not protected by federal labor laws. Other labor unions in the private sector would not suffer the same fate.

As to wages, you then have to look at the public sector vs. private sector in Wisconsin. When the elevated level of education required AND our state benefits are included, Wisconsin State Public Workers are paid, on average, 4.8% less than equivalent private workers. If you don't include our benefits, it's 8.2% less.

-- Posted by koeller77 on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 10:11 AM

BFG ok what happens when the (farmers, ranchers, and other ag-centered careers)get organized?

Who do you think will be paying the extra costs of the products they produce, here let me give you a hint the consumers.

BFG let me ask you a question lets use a few home town companys right here in Marshall.

Lets say the employes at Kays Engineering, W.B. Young, Hinzlers and Mid-States Ag all go union and have to start paying union wages and union benefits do you really think any of these companys would be open?

As far as the saftey and health concerns go there is a little thing called OSHA.

You know BFG I have only worked 2 union jobs in my life one at the age of 16 at Safeway here in Marshall I was paid $14hr for part time work do you really think a 16 year old kid working part time was worth that?

The other was Wilsons and yes I do think the money I was paid was right for the amount of work I will say it was the hardest job I ever had.

But guess what they both closed!

Here is another one for you my older brother was a union sheet metal worker in 1973 his base pay was $27hr you could almost double that if you put the cost of benefits in, and he would tell you he was not worth that and he used to get mad everytime they went on strike!

-- Posted by Gal66 on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 10:08 AM

@news - Unfortunately, the state workers of Wisconsin can't do what France does - our state laws allowing us to unionize (because we're not covered by federal laws) also expressly make it illegal for us to strike. The workers that are up at the Capitol are using their vacation days, sick leave, and personal days to be away from work.

-- Posted by koeller77 on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 10:07 AM

Gal66, folks like us would never make it if it werent for the unions. they are responsible for the many saftey and health concerns that have allowed you and I to attain the position we now have.

what do you think Tyson and monsanto are going to do when they dont have to worry about what happens when a bunch of the hardest working men and women in the country (farmers, ranchers, and other ag-centered careers)get organized and demand that they are paid fairly? I`ve seen farmers organize, it is quite a sight to behold and force to be reckoned with. the corporations are quiet right now for a reason. they want to see the unions die so they can go back to rolling in money.

there is no way that I should pay more for a couple of salted hams than the farmer got for the whole pig. not to mention the soy bean monopoly or the dictatorship that is the Tyson chicken cartel.

these companies prey on your sence of responsibility and ethic of hard work to keep you docile until these pesky unions die and they can return us to the world that Upton Sunclair was so disgusted by.

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 9:24 AM

Silly question -- my blonde is showing again.

Why is a union so different from our government? Isn't it all based on the same idea?

Elect representatives? Pay dues/taxes. Hope to receive benefits and protection when needed?

How do the Wisconsin union laborer's income compare to those who are non-union.

Just curious.

Have a great day!


-- Posted by missy08 on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 8:28 AM

news said

"The workers in France have a wonderful way of handling the situation.

They all go on strike until their demands are met -- all workers -- anyone who earns a wage -- they don't go to work."

You know news I know for a fact that would not work for me as I like to live indoors and eat so I have to work.

I can see where it would work for you because you don't work and are financially secure.

Sure looks like capitalism did you well!

You know news and anyone else that wants to complane about everything this country has done, if an old country boy like me with out any education past high school can make it in this mean old for crap run country and not really want for much.

You have one more right that you could use and either stay gone as one has done or exercise the right and do as he has done and pack your bags and move along to where it's better!

-- Posted by Gal66 on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 8:09 AM

LOL thanks for the link WTF

-- Posted by Gal66 on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 7:34 AM

Taxpayer. Don't you get tired of hearing the phrase "I'm a taxpayer and........" whatever; "I pay my taxes and ..........." whatever?

It finally dawned on my that yes, we are all taxpayers individually. The bigger picture is as a group (taxpayers) we are in fact enablers. We enable all that is going on in our government.

Start thinking of yourselves as enablers. Remember that word when you go to vote on anything. Do we really want to enable this person or that person to have a voice in our future? That is the bottom line in choosing a political office holder.

-- Posted by red dog on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 7:11 AM

Check this out:


-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 6:21 AM

"Union-busting battle spreads to more US states"


-- Posted by news across on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 12:24 AM


The workers in France have a wonderful way of handling the situation.

They all go on strike until their demands are met -- all workers -- anyone who earns a wage -- they don't go to work.

Shops don't open and those that the mangers do open are completely unstaffed. Rich people learn that having money doesn't mean anything if you can't spend it. Gas stations don't open. Warehouses and factories shut down. Nothing moves by truck, train, or plane.

Everything stops...

...until the demands are met.

Along with mass protest, its pretty effective.

Its worked well for the French People. It worked well for the Egyptians too. Maybe we ought to give that a try in America. Maybe the rich folks will get the message and if they don't stop their war on the American worker...well they will be losing millions by the hour...and doing their own laundry...for a long time...lol.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Feb 22, 2011, at 11:38 PM


Yeah, I agree...it is getting difficult to tell the difference between the Governor in Wisconsin and the Middle Eastern and African dictators.

...and remember...right now YOUR country is doing something bad that you think only OTHER countries do.

Read Wikileaks for more on that...

Oh...hey, look, here is a wonderful song for you. I hope you will enjoy it.

Van Halen-"Right Now"


-- Posted by news across on Tue, Feb 22, 2011, at 11:26 PM


It seems to me that the workers of Wisconsin among others have been excercising their rights to assemble peaceably and to associate for the last several days, according to the news reports. Maybe you're confusing that story with the reports and video from Libya.

-- Posted by Bcat on Tue, Feb 22, 2011, at 10:34 PM

If the Republican Governor is blocking internet access then isnt that violation of of free speech. This sounds like some of dictators we have on the run in the Middle East.

-- Posted by miss october on Tue, Feb 22, 2011, at 10:21 PM

"Wisconsin Capitol blocks pro-union website"


Is this their idea of liberty?

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Feb 22, 2011, at 5:35 PM

Now there is an anti-union bill making its way through the Indiana congress and now member have fled to Illnois and Kentucky. In Indiana they are tyring to strip collective bargaining rights from the public and private sector there.

What is happening in America when they tell us that they can afford to give the rich tax cuts, but they cant afford to pay teachers, firefighters, and police men and women?

I cant think of many people who believe those who are responsible for this were given a mandate by the American people like they say they were.


-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Feb 22, 2011, at 1:24 PM

what a great way to keep a dumb work force under controll! not just taking away the collective barganing and union protection from middle class folks but take it away from the people who educate our youth.

this way the unions die and the future of America is too dumb to know they got the short end of the stick. that way only the children of upper class families can afford to get the necessary tools to be successful and maybe employ a few of us lowly Proles to maintain their sprawling properties

welcome to the jungle folks. (not the song, the book) or would 1984 be a better choice.....?

If you have ANY idea what I am talking about thank a teacher.

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Tue, Feb 22, 2011, at 8:47 AM

notgvasht - Oh, I am so sorry to hear that! Our 7yo daughter keeps begging for a loft, and one of my conditions has been that it must have built in railings that we can't take off! I'll be sharing your son's story with her for emphasis!

-- Posted by koeller77 on Tue, Feb 22, 2011, at 8:02 AM

Thanks, NanaDot - We're still full of hope here!

All the schools are back in session today - and at our local high school, our students were having a "walk-in" - cheering for the teachers & showing solidarity as they came into the school today!

-- Posted by koeller77 on Tue, Feb 22, 2011, at 8:00 AM

Notgas Sorry to hear about your misfortune, and thanks for the heads up for others.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Feb 21, 2011, at 11:52 PM

What conservatives REALLY want...in Wisconsin, and in our nation at large. http://www.truth-out.org/what-conservati...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Feb 21, 2011, at 11:49 PM


At least the people of Wisconsin now know that the Governor used balancing the budget as an excuse to go after unions and the middle class for political gains or so he thought.

The state of Wisconsin is sitting on $73 million for an economic fund which is more than twice of what they seek to gain from the middle class in your publice sector. His proposed cuts wouldnt even effect his current budget predictions as contracts wont expire untill the next budget year.

This governor believes he can take money from the middle class and give it to the rich hence the 73 miliion in economic funds will go to the rich and corps.


-- Posted by cheesehead on Mon, Feb 21, 2011, at 3:52 PM

Cheese -

At least one Republican senator (the one from my district) has also proposed a compromise - taking away collective bargaining for two years, and then immediately restoring it. The governor has said no dice, I refuse to compromise. I believe the tide is turning against Walker, and we haven't given up hope!

-- Posted by koeller77 on Mon, Feb 21, 2011, at 1:49 PM

I looks like the rally against the Government officials in Wisconsin is continuing to grow larger and larger.

What will the end result of these rallies be? It seems that all over the world people are standing up for Democracy and fairness. Is this the start of even more protest here in the U.S.?

I believe the protest in Wisconsin are shedding light on the war on the middle class and how exactly we have been pitted against each other and been distracted from the fact that middle class wages have dropped and the rich are getting richer. Budgets are being balenced on the backs of those who cant afford it but those with the most money are getting more.

Regardless of our backgrounds this will be the one issues that will unite us here to bring our country back to those who are largest in numbers which is the middle class. Check out the link on how exactly their are trying to divide us.


-- Posted by cheesehead on Mon, Feb 21, 2011, at 1:06 PM

Philemon he won his next match by fall and lost in 3OT's the next.

You know news I have seen a lot of matches with girls vs guys the results have been all over the place form boys just flat not knowing how or what to grab even to the point of one young man stopping in the middle of the match because he had touched one young lady in the wrong place his face so red I felt bad form him at that point he was winning by several points but he could just not wrestle after that she ended up winning.

To one boy making it a point to put one young lady in every position he could to make it look like he was trying to make out with her, he ended up throwing a cross face so hard she ended up a bloody mess and the worst part it was all with-in the rules.

-- Posted by Gal66 on Mon, Feb 21, 2011, at 10:09 AM

What were you going to allow all female criminals to go free?

-- Posted by ladyjustice on Mon, Feb 21, 2011, at 10:07 AM

I think we all may have lost sight of something in regards to the highschool wrestling situation.

I've heard alot of high brow theories being thrown around so I'll offer my take on it.

These are kids. There are alot of things going with kids at that age, self-esteem issues and puberty among the most noted. Maybe this young man just wasn't comfortable with physical contact with a girl no matter what the setting.

This young man was put into an extremely uncomfortable position and he made a decision that wokred for him. Losing to a girl is but one of the embarassments this young man could have suffered, if you know what I mean.I think someone who calls him a gender bigot may have forgot what it was like at that age. To all the guys here. Do you really know what you would have done in that situation? I know I don't. Bring it down a notch and leave the kid alone.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Feb 21, 2011, at 9:24 AM

How can you possibly consider this to be discrimination? He FORFEITED! The only person even remotely hurt here was him. You ask why he only made the decision once they were on the mat? Well, it's hard to forfeit until time for the match to start and he "agonized" over the decision. If his decision not to fight her resulted in her not getting the win, then THAT would have been discrimination.

Like Eric, I applaud them both for being so respectful. I saw that she was eliminated later with 2 losses. I'm curious how he ended up.

-- Posted by Philemon on Mon, Feb 21, 2011, at 8:39 AM

Imagine if you will a boy wanting to play volleyball but at his school they only have a girls volleyball team so he wants to play bad enough he goes out for the team but they tell him he can not because he is a boy.

News and everyone else is that discrimination?

-- Posted by Gal66 on Mon, Feb 21, 2011, at 8:10 AM

news -

Actually, there are a number of people that would say that the girl came out better in the end. This young man voluntarily disqualified himself from the tournament, paving the way for her to get to another level of competition. I'm a woman, and I don't see anything wrong with what he did.

Besides, I believe that what Eric was applauding was the fact that it was handled with grace & civility by both sides, not tantrums and yells of bigotry and/or discrimination. For that, I commend both of them as well!

-- Posted by koeller77 on Mon, Feb 21, 2011, at 8:00 AM


Youre right on this one because someones faith doesnt give them a right to discriminate against someone because of their gender whatever that faith may be. The boy shouldnt have even showed up if he knew he wasn't going to participate like every one else in this tourney did.

Also those who read your post know your by no means a bigot like someone suggested in their post.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Sun, Feb 20, 2011, at 11:50 PM

News, why are making a mountain of this mole hill? After all, it was their decision, not yours.

You have your opinion, and Editor Crump stated his. Why not just leave it there?

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Feb 20, 2011, at 10:06 PM

Oh sorry for the typos Cheet,

I meant to say, I hope you will please go read the analogy I posted in the Politics section of speak out and see if you can still honestly say you think a persons' religious faith justifies discrimination be it racial, sexual, religious, nationalistic, or age.

Thank God we at least have laws protecting women from such expressions of "faith" of this type in the workplace...or there might be far fewer women in the workplace.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Feb 20, 2011, at 9:31 PM

Faith is not a justification of denying basic human rights and dignity such as gender equality.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Feb 20, 2011, at 9:19 PM

Smokin' Cheetah

You are factually incorrect. He refused to wrestle the competitor, who had wrestled her way to earn that right to compete with him for that title, due to no other reason than her gender.

If it had been a man, the match would have gone on. The only difference is that of gender.

That is gender discrimination.

Perhaps you will read the analogy I provided in the poltics section of speak out. See if you still can honestly say you don't thing singliing out and penalizing someone for no other reason except that of their sex is the right thing to do.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Feb 20, 2011, at 9:17 PM

Cheetah, here's my "aye."

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Feb 20, 2011, at 8:11 PM

Breaking news from the resurgence of freedom seekers around the world.

Libya: protesters have seized military bases, and tanks.

Gadhafi's son concerned that civil war is breaking out, offers concessions. http://www.aolnews.com/2011/02/20/gadhaf...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Feb 20, 2011, at 6:04 PM

Smokin' Cheetah

Absolutely yes, if I was that boy I would have wrestled whoever had earned their right to compete with me -- I would owe my worthy opponent that -- and I would have wrestled as well as I could in that match as is expected of any sportsman.

By the way, I am not calling his masculinity into question...I am calling him a gender biggot and I am saying that by denying her the right she had earned to have the opportunity to beat him on the mat, based entirely upon her gender, is immoral sexual discrimination and a trait of low moral charactor beneath that of a real sportsman.

In addition, anyone who says they have respect for a person who so overtly displays that discrimination, and says that he or she respects the biggot's immoral (and possibly unlawful) discrimination because they think he did so with civility, is displaying a behavior not far removed from that of the culprit himself. Worse yet, it compounds the situation when a respected member of the Marshall City community publically holds that gender biggot up as a shining example of something good.

Here is a video for ya mate. I hope you enjoy it.


-- Posted by news across on Sat, Feb 19, 2011, at 9:58 PM

Eric Crump

Oh you mean her gender was not the only basis of the male wrestler's decision...

...speaking of which...

...he knew well ahead of time he could be facing her in competition. Odd that he waited until the very seconds before the match to back out and announce his decision to quit. I am pretty sure he knew at least a few days before who he would be facing in the match. Its not like they keep sport facts secret. I think perhaps his weak, male ego could not handle the very real possiblity of being beaten, publicly, probably in front of hundreds of people...by a girl...

and Cheetah,

She earned her way to that match. She won because she deserved it. She beat many guys in many sporting matches all the way up the ladder...just like he did. She earned that right to be in that match. Clearly, her being a female was not enough leverage for her previous male challengers who had lost to her.

Perhaps mate. it was he who was worried about being beat up...

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Feb 19, 2011, at 9:02 PM

Sorry news. I still think these kids are shining examples to us all. Trying to entice me to contradict my point by engaging in an argument over a claim I didn't even make is, well, sort of like throwing red meat bait to a vegetarian fish.

Not interested.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Sat, Feb 19, 2011, at 8:44 PM


Here is a video that is rising fast on the Australian music charts.

Given your position of attempting to justify sexual discrimination, I think maybe you can appreciate the charactor this singer portrays in his song.

Die Antwoord

"Enter The Ninja"



-- Posted by news across on Sat, Feb 19, 2011, at 7:05 PM

Eric why would any modern American support and respect sexual discrimination?

Are you proud of that?

Do you also respect the local Grand Wizard of the Klu Klux Klan for his firm stance in opposition to equality for African Americans?

Please spare me you undefendable rationalization of sexual discrimination.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Feb 19, 2011, at 6:59 PM

Excellent comment, Eric! I agree.

-- Posted by missy08 on Sat, Feb 19, 2011, at 6:56 PM

My reason for mentioning the story was to highlight that both Joel Northrup and Cassy Herkelman, two high school athletes, showed a great deal of class in handling a difficult situation.

Each stuck firmly to their own beliefs without disparaging the beliefs of the other. Each expressed respect for the other, in spite of their differences.

In this time, when our society seems addicted to contentiousness, I find their example to be refreshing.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Sat, Feb 19, 2011, at 6:39 PM

Eric in a gender neutral society as we are today or at least should be and claim to be, a person's gender has no bearing on their abilities to do battle or defend themselves or to compete against men in sports.

Todays woman is not a butterfly and they do not need us to defend them...they can do that perfectly well by themselves.

His refusing to compete against the contender based entirely on her gender is nothing short of gender discrimination and it is not justified by his unfounded, archaic, superstitious beliefs...ever. A biggot is a biggot no matter how hard the biggot tries to rationalize his or her biggotry.

But I am glad he is out of the competion, and I hope it will be the end of his sports career because he clearly is both a sexist and a poor sportsman and there is no place for either in sports.

Oh by the way, here are a few women who have demonstrated they could protect you far better than you, the male wrestler, or any man could ever protect them:

1.) Susan B. Anthony


2.) lyudmila Pavlichenko - Soviet WWII sniper hero


3.) Amelia Earhart


4.) Elizabeth Blackwell


5.) Joan of Arc


6.) Catherine the Great


7.) Elizabeth C. Howland -- Confederate hero


8.) Pauline Cushman -- Union hero


9.) Indira Gandhi


and of course the great,

10.) Rosa Parks -- American hero of the civil rights movement


...and there are so many more Eric.


-- Posted by news across on Sat, Feb 19, 2011, at 6:30 PM

news across:

I read in one story where Joels' father said "the Bible talks to us about loving our wives, protecting our families, being there, as an older brother, just to protect his home and his sisters."

That's the basis of Joel's view that it's not right to do battle with a female.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Sat, Feb 19, 2011, at 5:40 PM

""Joel made the decision that he felt was the right decision," Jamie Northrup continued. "And it aligned with his beliefs and his values and conscience."

Since when is gender bias a value?

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Feb 19, 2011, at 5:08 PM


Well I can't blame the male wrestler for being frightened...'cause that little lady would probably have made short work of him...lol lol lol.

He should have wrestled her. I know its difficult for some folks to accept the full equality of women in our society, but the fact is women can do everything we guys can do...and often better than we can. The ladies have come a long way since the days when we American men treated them like chattle!

She deserved that win but I am sure she would rather have done it on the mat instead of his withdrawing from the match.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Feb 19, 2011, at 5:02 PM

Eric you gotta wonder if the fact that Iowa students are traditionally at, or near the top scholastically doesn't have a bearing on that scenario. Ya got good reason to be proud.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Feb 19, 2011, at 1:52 PM

Makes me proud to be from Iowa. The situation this week in which a male high school wrestler refused to face a female wrestler could have been contentious, spiteful, bitter.

But it wasn't.

Both wrestlers and their families showed understanding and respect for each other. Regardless of their records on the mat, I'd say everybody won where it matters.



-- Posted by Eric Crump on Sat, Feb 19, 2011, at 9:22 AM

Glad you liked it ND all the music was the icing on the cake. I think the three of us have pretty good taste, but then of course I would. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Feb 19, 2011, at 2:08 AM

Back at you News. By the way I enjoyed your "Perfect Competion" piece. Thank you for sharing your knowlege of economics on this blog. I suspect that more are glad that you do than will ever mention it. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Feb 19, 2011, at 1:21 AM

Nan and Okr,

I enjoyed all the music very much. Thanks.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Feb 19, 2011, at 1:17 AM

Thanks, and good evening ND. I have been listening to such tonight. My spirits raised by On Wisconsin! I thought appropriate music might raise an old skeptic's spirits even further. It did. I hope your spirits were raised a bit today.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Feb 19, 2011, at 12:49 AM

Well I can't get the link to activate...copy, and paste to your browser. Sorry

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Feb 18, 2011, at 11:03 PM

Better link to Joe Hill.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_yC4ffyGiw

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Feb 18, 2011, at 11:02 PM

Good stuff News. Here's another that fits the day. Pete again, "Joe Hill". I think you will appreciate the visuals on this one.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_yC4ffyGiw

Oh yes, and a tip of me old hat to those swarthy brown people of the middle east who remind us that the embers of the fires of freedom can not be extinguished by the puffing of plutocrats.

What an irony, we invade them to save them, and give them freedom. They return our dubious favor by showing us how freedom is really achieved.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Feb 18, 2011, at 10:59 PM

For all our hardworking, working class heros, and for the middle class which owes its existence to...you, our Nations workers.

"Woody Guthrie-This Land Is Your Land"


"Which Side Are You On -- Pete Seeger"


-- Posted by news across on Fri, Feb 18, 2011, at 9:01 PM


Thanks for posting that link.

I have never understood how anyone could think they have the right to tell the workers at a work place that they can't bargain collectively as one rather than competing against each other for lower wages.

In fact, when workers are denied their right to bargain and negotiate their pay and benefits as one entity, an economic mechanism called "Perfect Competition" gradually sets in. Deflationary periods, such as the one we are in right now, tend to hasten Perfect Competion which slowly reduces all wages offered by employers in specific geographic areas...including the salaries of many professionals as well. During such deflationary periods, collective barganing is one of the very few, effective safeguards available to the worker against the effects of Perfect Competition.

If the current efforts to thwart the democratic process of collective bargining continues as it is continuing in some Midwestern States today, the end result could be a Nation of minimum wage workers at almost every level.

To get an Idea of what the long-term effects of anti-unionism and Perfect Competion looks like, one has only to look at countries where such free market economies effectively prohibit collective bargaining, and perpetuate Perfect Competition such as the Phillipines, Mexico, and Hati. Or better yet, read Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle" and get a good look at what life was like for most Americans during the period of the Great Trusts when free market capitalism was king and Unions were almost nonexistent...around the turn of the 19th/20th Century.

Almost every professional and member of the middle class owe their good fortunate birth into a family that could afford to nurture them and educate them to their working class grandparents and greatgrandparents who fought hard to establish the right to collective bargaining and established good middle class wages and benefits as the norm for most of the working class.

Its a shame to see so many people who owe a large part of their professional success to the Unions of their foremothers and forfathers now turning their backs on those rights, paid for in the blood of their Grandparents and Great-Grandparents which moved their families into the middle class in the first place. Further yet, it will be a shame to see what happens to their middle class salaries if the rich fat-cat top 10% win this fight.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Feb 18, 2011, at 8:36 PM


What they are trying to do in Wisconsin is called union busting and the unions are one of the last line of defenses the middle class has. This is another example of those trying to wage war against the middle class and it has nothing to do with the job performance of the teachers at this point.

-- Posted by Back in the day on Fri, Feb 18, 2011, at 7:53 PM


The Governor in Wisconsin is not listening to the Teachers in that state or the Democrats in their state congress, so by not showing up to vote on this bill this is the only way the people of Wisconsin will be heard and thats by protest.

-- Posted by Back in the day on Fri, Feb 18, 2011, at 7:48 PM

I'm all for teachers making good salaries and having good benefits, IF they have a proven record of being able to teach. I'm the first to admit that a lot of times teachers hands are tied behind their backs because of a lot of legislation, but the simple fact is that a love of children and working with children does not mean you have the ability to teach. There has to be accountablity because the current state of education in this country is appalling, and getting worse every year. It's not enough to pay teachers well, there has to be accountability, teacher must show they can teach to keep their jobs and good pay/benefits.

-- Posted by Reader101 on Fri, Feb 18, 2011, at 7:44 PM

blj - Also, the teachers are calling in using personal days, not sick days. Usually, of course, they are only used for sick days, but in fact, they can be used for anything.

In addition, while it is true that some teachers do not pay for the health insurance or pension, that is not true of ALL teachers. Not to mention, this bill affects every single public worker in the state of Wisconsin - including those of us who already pay a portion of both health insurance and pension.

-- Posted by koeller77 on Fri, Feb 18, 2011, at 3:19 PM

Mommyto1 -

I suspect the students will be back in school on Monday, so I'm okay with missing school right now (we have not had many snow days here in WI, so there won't be a lot of makeups). The teachers are being urged to be back in class on Monday, and I do think that pushing it beyond today will be testing the goodwill of the parents.

As to the senators, I am glad they left and have delayed the vote. They tried to stand up and fight for what's right, but the Republicans won't let them. The only way to delay the ramming thru of this bill and allow people to have their say (and actually read a bill that was only introduced 1 week ago today) was to stop the vote from happening. They will come back when the governor and/or the other senators are willing to actually discuss the bill. Our governor has stated repeatedly that he will not negotiate with unions. Period.

Also, please understand - I already contribute to my pension and health care. I will be paying $189 MORE than I currently do. Plus, like many state workers, I have to pay to park at my place of business to the tune of $140/year. I used to have to pay $800/year when I was in Madison. I don't have any objection to paying more for the excellent health care and benefits I get. I DO object to taking away my right to collective bargaining.

-- Posted by koeller77 on Fri, Feb 18, 2011, at 3:16 PM

Let me be clear! I really don't want the present situation with 99 percent of the wealth stuck in the top 10 percent of the population to cause the down fall of our nation the way it has done so many times throughout history!

But I have to say something so I don`t regret it the rest of my life should the worst actually happen.

On the education thing: I have thought up a way to explain my thoughts to people who haven't worked as teachers:

If you drove a Ferrari you wouldn't put the cheapest gas and oil you could find in it nor would you take it to "some guy" to service it. Would ya? A car won't take care of you when you`re old, give you grandchildren, make you cry out of pride, or say nice things over your casket in a tear filled voice. So why would you subject your kid to the cheapest education you could find provided by underpaid serfs who are in a monthly struggle to keep the rent paid?

Mommy to 1, no matter what minimum wage paying job you had it didn`t have half the effect on the future as the job done by the least respected superheroes in the world. TEACHERS!

The best thing we can do for our country and selves is to focus on the education and decision making ability of our children.

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Fri, Feb 18, 2011, at 2:59 PM

here comes the little wave that starts the boat listing to one side....

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Fri, Feb 18, 2011, at 2:32 PM


it appears that some of us are WAY out of touch with whats going on in our public schools

people think teaching is a regular job. 40 hours and done.

let me tell you folks..... It Ain`t. my first two years between the other duties teachers are saddled with(bus duty, hall moniter, en loco parentus etc.) I put in at least 60 hours a week. staying after football/basketball/track practice to grade research papers til nearly midnight on the days that I didn`t sleep on the highjump mat in the gym.

and all that for $28,000 a year. thats $600 a year more than my friends are earning at that same school today 5 years later!

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Fri, Feb 18, 2011, at 2:16 PM

Always remember kids....he who hath the gold maketh the rules.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Feb 18, 2011, at 2:08 PM


Please do not take this as offensive I just would like to get your opinion on what is happening a little further. You said that you are conflicted on the sick out, but you are happy to see so many kids getting a taste of democracy, how are 14 senators running across the border to hide considered democracy. If these were my senators, I would want them to stand in that room and fight. The senate minority leader said in an interview this morning that they may be gone for weeks. How long are you willing to keep those kids out of school. Having worked in jobs that were minimum wage and I paid close to 400 dollars a month in health insurance, I do not see the problem with what they are asking you to pay. I would prefer to pay 190 dollars a month for pension and insurance then to have the possibility that I would lose my job all together. I understand that you have every right to stand up for what you believe and I am proud of you for that, but to what cost are you willing to continue this fight.

-- Posted by Mommyto1 on Fri, Feb 18, 2011, at 2:01 PM


This isnt just war on unions its war on the middle class by lawmakers on the right. The people are tired of being sold out by corporate politicians and its time we put a stop to it.

If the people who belong to these unions were rich then we wouldn't have this discussion as they wouldn't suffer from these cuts, but thats not the case as those on the right who were elected werent given a mandate to wage financial war on the middle class and to give tax cuts to the rich. The have already misused there power in the short time they have been in office. This is just the begining of the iceberg.

-- Posted by Back in the day on Fri, Feb 18, 2011, at 1:52 PM

Gal66 -

To be perfectly honest, we all have to have cuts made. We know that, and we, as union workers, were willing to negotiate more cuts than we already have made. The bigger issue is that he is union-busting - taking away all our collective bargaining rights, except salary, and then limiting any raises to the Consumer Price Increase. I know I'm going to have to take a hit - but we've already not had any raises in 10 years, and I took a 3% pay cut 2 years ago. Including our benefit packages, WI state workers are paid, on average 4.8% less than the equivalent private sector counterpart.

The other issue at hand is that in the 7 weeks he's been in office, he's passed tax cuts amounting to nearly $140 million. Now, he's telling us we have to make up a $137 million budget shortfall before July 1, which is why he's ramming this through so quickly. Hmmm...I think I see where the budget shortfall came from, and it angers me that he's balancing the budget on the backs of the public workers.

-- Posted by koeller77 on Fri, Feb 18, 2011, at 1:40 PM

Who are you calling big bosses? The taxpayers run the goverenment, and Gov. Walker is doing exactly what he said he would do in his campaign to get elected. These goverenment school teachers should at least be fined for lieing about being sick, instead of "teaching" the kids that they say they care so much about. If they would simply aply simple addition and subtraction the teachers would see that the state is in the red. All the unions care about is getting all the money they can for their rank and file. These teachers pay 0% for their health insurance and put in 0% for their pention. The private sector puts on average of 20% in health care and around 8% for their pention. The freely elected Gov.'t and legislature is needing them to put just a fraction of that to help with budget.

-- Posted by blj on Fri, Feb 18, 2011, at 1:34 PM

koeller77 sorry for not knowing what is going on up your way as I have just now seen a little of it in a couple of stories.

I am not a big fan of unions as most around here know.

But I do not like to see any cut in funding for education, and I am sure cuts could be made in a lot of places in your states budget.

So can you give us some examples of places he should be looking to cut.

As I can see some more cuts coming here in Missouri.

-- Posted by Gal66 on Fri, Feb 18, 2011, at 1:28 PM

Great articles, NanaDot!

While I, of course, hope that we can stop this outrage of bill from being passed, and I'm somewhat conflicted about the schools having to close because of teacher sick-outs, I am SO excited about the education our children are getting about democracy in action! SO many parents are taking their children to the Capital to protest with them, and I know many other students that are asking for (and getting) parental permission to miss school to participate.

We may not win in the end...but we are going down fighting if we do!

-- Posted by koeller77 on Fri, Feb 18, 2011, at 12:53 PM

BFG - SO true!

-- Posted by koeller77 on Fri, Feb 18, 2011, at 10:32 AM

The easiest way to keep a workforce at a job without having to treat them like equals or people for that matter is to make it tough for them to get an education. It worked in Ancient Egypt, Rome, all those countries that 'Newsacross' named and the early history of this country.

"An educated population is easy to govern and nearly impossible to rule."

Have you ever noticed that every time the Big boys screw up the budgeting of our money they slash the funding of the school systems? What is that saying about how they regard us?

It says that we (the big boys) don`t want high quality teachers and school staff. We want worksheet spouting drones who are working at the school as a second job. That way we don't end up creating (from the public school dregs) any challengers to our empires. We just need a bunch of dumb worker bees with little on their mind other than the next bill, beer, or paycheck.

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Fri, Feb 18, 2011, at 9:36 AM


-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Fri, Feb 18, 2011, at 9:19 AM

Cheese, news -

It's heartening to see people outside of WI (although, cheese, I don't know where you live?) aware of what's going on in our state!

As a state employee up here, I make less than $30k a year, and am facing a $189.25 a month reduction in my paycheck - effective April 1. It's very scary to see a governor who has been in office less than 7 weeks declare war on his employees.

It's also been exciting to see the students get involved and organized walkouts to support their teachers, and to see the parent support of the teachers "sick-outs" as schools are closed. We've won a few minor concessions back, and I hope that we will get more!

-- Posted by koeller77 on Fri, Feb 18, 2011, at 8:33 AM

Thanks OKR,

Yeah I miss J0's plain but brilliant way of putting things. He really knew how to make a point but was not longwinded about it like I am lol.

I hope Jo will come on back and post again. He has a rare wisdom -- the kind of wisdom our Nation and State need during these trying times.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 17, 2011, at 7:17 PM

News I will let Jo speak for himself if he cares to, however I posed the same question a month or a bit longer ago. Jo replied that he still reads the blog.

By the way I also miss his comments. He is full of pis and vinegar. Not enough of those around any more.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Feb 17, 2011, at 6:22 PM

Does anyone know why Jo never posts comments anymore?

I sure hope Jo is ok.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 17, 2011, at 4:31 PM


The rich declared war on the masses a long time ago.

So when We the People fight back, the rich and their running dog lackies start crying foul.

I pay no attention to them. Of course we are engaged in class warfare -- the rich started this war a long time ago -- and We the People have every right to fight back.

And as history has shown over and over again, the masses always win in the end -- see the French, Russian, Chinese, Iranian, and Egyptian Revolutions for more on this.

The fact is we way, way, way outnumber the rich and in the end we can make the rich and their running dog lackies desperately poor and praying they won't be next on the guillotine -- and there is nothing -- NOTHING -- they can do to stop the People.

Guess who the Governor of Wisconsin is fighting for...I can give you a hint -- its not the People...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 17, 2011, at 4:13 PM


Dude, you are so right on!!!

Your comments are well thought out, well articulated, and right on!!!

Its a pleasure to read your comments, mate.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 17, 2011, at 4:01 PM

In 1988 the average American made $33,400, yet in 2008 the average worker made $33,000. Those who have made $380,000 or more have seen there incomes rise by over %30 in the last 20 years. Does anyone see something wrong with this picture?

These wage increases for the rich and the stagnant incomes for the middle class can be directly related to the decrease in collective bargaining in the last 30 years as unioun memberships our down to about %10 from %20 of the population.

Some people dont believe in class warfare, but the truth lies in the numbers and if your in the middle or working class youve been hoodwinked for 2o years now and it has nothing to do with taxes or this current recession.


-- Posted by cheesehead on Thu, Feb 17, 2011, at 1:08 PM

no sir Wi is not our Egypt. it is however a stern warning of things to come. when a boat becomes top heavy it takes just a little wave to start the eventual sinking.

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Thu, Feb 17, 2011, at 12:04 PM

The war on the working class has heated up in Wisconsin as the move to privatize the school system has begun. Is Wisconsin our Egypt?


-- Posted by cheesehead on Thu, Feb 17, 2011, at 11:49 AM

By the way, I do hope the unseasonal spike in temperature doesn't cause your trees to forget what month this is.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Feb 17, 2011, at 11:19 AM

Former Editor, that's a very engrossing article, along with some of the commentary.

Thanks for sharing it.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Feb 17, 2011, at 11:15 AM

I feel like all of this talk of the "rich" and the "ruling class" is probably best suited to the politics forum, but that is just my opinion.

-- Posted by Owl12345 on Thu, Feb 17, 2011, at 11:06 AM

Marshall Man 1% of our national budget goes to foreign aid. Not a lot. Of course that doesn't take into account the cost of two utterly ridiculous foreign wars, both of which were started on at best false premise, and should have been ended long ago.

We should have left national change to the people who live in foreign countries. Egypt, and the other middle eastern countries that are in rebellion have proven that point.

It is not foreign aid that is sapping our treasury, it is misguided empire building. Invasion is not foreign aid, it is aggression against other nations who did not attack us.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Feb 17, 2011, at 8:55 AM

Marshall Man, check to see which tax bracket those "fools in Washington" fall into of course they didn`t spend our money wisely. They didn`t contribute any of their paychecks to the tax money that they spent willy-nilly.

There is a reason they don`t care about your retirement or social security.... it's because they voted themselves a separate non failing system of retirement funding.

The king of the hill doesn't help people climb up there with him; he keeps his position by stepping on the faces of chalengers and pushing others back down the slope. The part of this that really bothers me about this is that this exact same situation has happened before. Those who don`t learn from history.......

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Thu, Feb 17, 2011, at 8:50 AM

Major media shilling and spinning for the big shot vested interests is a frequent topic here. Try this Matt Taibbi story for analysis of our economic crisis and why it's not going to get better. Taibbi uses dramatic language that makes legal-technical stuff easier to absorb.


-- Posted by former editor on Thu, Feb 17, 2011, at 8:21 AM

Gal66, I just read Editor Crump's article about the city administrator job, so I now see why you posted the link to the Sedalia issue.

I haven't had any thoughts about the Latimer appointment since last year, until now.

Smart Dog's commentary to the editor's column paints a pretty accurate picture, in my opinion.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Feb 17, 2011, at 12:25 AM

"Uncovered: Fox News deceptively used old CPAC footage to smear Ron Paul"


Really, shouldn't Fox News change their name to "Fox Propaganda"?

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Feb 16, 2011, at 6:21 PM

Good Point Nan

I have always found it amusing that those who keep crying about personal responsiblity are surprisingly silent when it comes to collective responsibility.

For example, where are the admissions of guilt and apologies on the part of those conservatives who lied us into war? When will the conservative leadership be admitting their part in lying us into a war that was really intended to establish another American colony in the Mideast?

Where are the admissions of guilt and apologies for the needless slaughter of our children serving in the Armed forces in wars that should never have happened in the first place?

Where are the admissions of guilt and apologies by the conservative leadership for the more than 1 million innocent, unarmed, non-combatant Iraqi civillians -- 55% of who the Iraq Government says were women and children -- butchered by American bombs and bullets?

Where are the admissions of guilt and apologies from the conservative leadership that violated our laws (Title 50, Chapter 36 and Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 118 of Federal Acts) and spied on our People with no warrants even sought, much less used.

Where are the admissions of guilt and apologies from the conservative leadership that caused our economy to spiral into deflation and cost Americans millions of jobs -- jobs that won't be coming back -- when they utilized neo-classical economic policies, recinded regulations on Wall Street bankers, and who turned a blind eye to the economically disasterous trading in credit derrivatives?

Where are the admissions of guilt and apologies from the conservative leaders who violated our Constitution and put Americans in military prisons for years with no charges, no access to their attorney, no access to communication with their families, and not even one day in court to ask a judge why they were being held in prison?

The conservatives fail totally when it comes to collective responsibiliity. In fact, they still deny their responsibility for the things they have done and attempt to blame a party that was not even in power at the time.

Where are the admissions of guilt and apologies from the conservative leadership that established torture as a norm in the USA -- in violation of our laws and our Constitution?

Where are the admissions of guilt and apologies from those conservatives who supported, voted for, and cheered on that same conservative leadership?

Yes we hear a lot of crying about personal responsibility -- when they think it only applies to someone else besides them -- but those same folks sure are quiet when it comes to collective responsibility -- so quiet that you could hear a pin drop.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Feb 16, 2011, at 4:59 PM

BigFatGuy, what got us in this mess would be the fool's in D.C and at state level that spend more then what come's in. It doesn't matter if it's from all the free give away program's or the flat overspending with contract's paying way more for item's then what they should. We send billion's of $$$ around the world and these place's would stab us in our back first chance they get. I will agree Big Business and the very rich do get off easy with loophole's, but I still think everyone should pay some Tax.. Heck maybe if we cut our pay out's around the World say 30% may be nobody in this great Country would have a worry. just sayin I'm just a poor workin stiff....

-- Posted by Marshall Man on Wed, Feb 16, 2011, at 4:05 PM


That is one well written post. Nice job.

-- Posted by Smart Dog on Wed, Feb 16, 2011, at 3:25 PM


Do we know why gunshot on Grant street last night?

-- Posted by momandgramma on Wed, Feb 16, 2011, at 3:24 PM

Dear Gal66,

I am proud of your kids and their achievement and I`m sure that as a way to say "thank you" for the fortune bestowed upon them they help keep the children in their area fed and make frequent donations to the local clothes and food pantries and that the total of these donations are near or close to all of the households disposable income.

There are Americans who can`t afford to feed themselves or their children. Often simple heat is an issue in some of these homes. (The ones who have homes)

The world has completely forgotten about "love thy neighbor" and reverted to "how can I get more money than my neighbor" somehow we got duped into believing that we can all be rich. We can`t!

Marshall Man, the only fair tax is one targeted at a population`s disposable income. A flattening of the tax rates takes more money out of the middle/lower class man's food and fuel budget and less out of Ted Turner's Private Yacht and Island budget. That kind of thinking is backwards and is what got us into this mess. Check out the history of American, ancient Greek, and Roman tax structure. All of these societies had tax structures that tax the rich heavily (as high as 90%) and the poor more leniently and their state economies were booming..... Until the rich started to gripe about "fairness" and found ways to duck the taxes and become excessively rich.

The Tyranny of Athens during the golden (crooked) age brought down the whole system. The aristocracy of Rome and their excess brought the fall of the ancient Italian republic. The greed of the American corporations and politicians ....... Well, I guess we`ll see.

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Wed, Feb 16, 2011, at 2:24 PM

NanaDot your right the really big buys do not pay what we do thats a given that is why I said we have to get rid of the tax shelters, I do not have a problem with that.

I did like the idea that philman posted a while back when he said to have tax breaks for the companys that do create new jobs or something like that.

Also we must tax incoming goods from other countries just as our goods are taxed by them.

-- Posted by Gal66 on Wed, Feb 16, 2011, at 12:36 PM

Marshall Man. I see your point about the term "not for profit." It does seem imprecise. I'm president of a tax-exempt non-profit organization, and we need to make more money than we spend, like any business. Profit will help us grow and do more to serve the community. The difference, of course, is that for-profit businesses intend to *maximize* profit in order to pay investors/owners. Non-profit businesses use any income above expenses to further the mission of the organization rather than to pay out. Both kinds of organization need profit, but they use it differently.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Wed, Feb 16, 2011, at 11:35 AM

Thanks Gal66,

pssst I knew the answer just being a smarty just another example of how our little community is not at all best interest of .....How our money is paid out and no results show for days work

Municipal Services staff and the council's Municipal Services committee have direct oversight over road maintenance and improvement.

-- Posted by momandgramma on Wed, Feb 16, 2011, at 11:26 AM

So, News, keeping in mind the theme started by OKR and his link to the have/have-not dichotomy, do you see the symbolism in fishing guy Bill's futility?

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Feb 16, 2011, at 11:24 AM

Here you go momandgramma

Marshall Municipal Services

1277 South Odell Avenue

Marshall, Missouri 65340

Phone: 660 886-3945

Fax: 660-886-9565


-- Posted by Gal66 on Wed, Feb 16, 2011, at 11:15 AM

right On Gal66, People can be self made and you don't have to step-over and cheat people to do it. If a person work's hard ,save's and does good for them self they should be able to do as they want. Also like you I am sick and tired of being taxed when people that have no desire or drive to better them self's suck the system dry. A person can dream and be what they wish but you must have drive and WORK hard. I think there should be a flat rate income tax in place for all people. I don't care if you make 10k a tear off welfare or 10 million at what ever, this would be paid no matter what your deduction's or other tax credit's. No matter your income or source of it we as citizen's should pay something in. Also all this not for profit stuff should be stopped. NOTHING is not for profit..NOTHING!! just sayin

-- Posted by Marshall Man on Wed, Feb 16, 2011, at 11:15 AM

Thank You Eric,

You think you can put a bug in a ear is a problem?

Cars swerve over miss the rut bump and on going traffic swerve miss them ....

I would much rather drive away from it as well keep from messing up my car I paid for

-- Posted by momandgramma on Wed, Feb 16, 2011, at 11:02 AM


Who over see that our roads are fixed?

And can they be fixed first time around so keep expense down?

For Example College street when was dug up and re fixed and same problem exist! they are sinking again..... Mind you is more yet using 1 example .. Thanks Eric

-- Posted by momandgramma on Wed, Feb 16, 2011, at 10:38 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Municipal Services staff and the council's Municipal Services committee have direct oversight over road maintenance and improvement.

Ok BigFatGuy let me see if I have this right.

Because my daughter and her husband started a retail business and have done very well with it and own 2 nice cars and a pick-up and a couple of motorcycles and a nice home, and pay someone to clean their cars, mow the grass.

Now for us

We make a nice living have a house, a nice ford pickup and a nice car and a 1986 Mustang we also pay someone to mow the grass and clean our cars.

We should all be ashamed that our excess has taken food out of somebodys mouth.

Why on earth would I be ashamed I have worked since I was 14.

Been in the same job for almost 25 years.

My kids took a big risk put all the money they had saved into a business but you think that just because they have done well they should be ashamed

The people that should be ashamed are the people that dont work but are able and live off the system.

Yes big corporations need to be forced out of elections and we need to do away with the tax shelters.

But I do not think just because someone makes a lot of money they should pay a higher tax rate % that I do.

For example if I pay 20 cents on a dollar so should Bill Gates and Koch Industries.

-- Posted by Gal66 on Wed, Feb 16, 2011, at 10:19 AM


which is worse? a "self made man" or a person who inherited a heap of money?

either they personally stepped on a bunch of people to get all the money they have now or their parents did.

the real dilemma is that the American Dream is a cold blooded robbery nightmare. to get rich you have to take money out of somebodys pocket. everybody wants to get rich. why dont we set a goal of everybody having ENOUGH.

if you are driving a hummer and pay somebody to wash it, you should be ashamed that your excess has taken food out of somebodys mouth.

the fact that we have a show in this country that the purpose of the show is for the rich to brag about their "Cribs" sickens me when I see families that are struggling at the grocery store.

the Egyptian government was suprised when their people rose up and demanded that the population be respected as a whole instead of only listening to money. will the United States suffer the same fate or will we address out problem and take it seriously?

the plane is headed for the side of the mountian. are we going to pretend that the mountian isn`t there or do something about it?


I really dont know. how are the beaches down under? I may be headed there sooner than planned.

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Wed, Feb 16, 2011, at 8:47 AM

Poor Bill the Fishin' guy...

He just can't seem to win.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Feb 16, 2011, at 1:25 AM

Interesting CheeseHead, Slater your link seemed fishy.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Feb 16, 2011, at 12:37 AM

In fact, to keep me from doing a Beetlejuice-like imitation of head spinning, I find it easier to relate to this:


Give it time to clear out the prelims.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Feb 15, 2011, at 11:16 PM

Very good link, Cheesehead.

OKR, I don't know about everybody else, but I have a really difficult time trying to relate to paying $1 million for a car and $20K per night for a hotel room. That's a whole nuther world to me.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Feb 15, 2011, at 11:10 PM


The rich get tax cuts and the big corporations get to buy elections, yet middle and working class Americans have seen their wages drop.

Why cant people realize their has been a financial war on the middle class that can't be solved by reducing taxes on corps and the rich, but for years now as the concentration of wealth has been increasing for the top 20% for at least 30 years now.


-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Feb 15, 2011, at 10:50 PM

"Worse Than Egypt

In fact our country's concentration of wealth is worse than Egypt. Richard Eskow writes,

Imagine: A government run by and for the rich and powerful. Leaders who lecture others about "sacrifice" and deficits while cutting taxes for corporations and the wealthy. A system so corrupt that rich executives can break the law without fear of being punished. Increasing poverty and hardship even as the stock market rises. And now, a nation caught between a broken political system and a populist movement that could be hijacked by religious extremists at any moment.

Here's the reality: Income inequality is actually greater in the United States than it is in Egypt. Politicians here have close financial ties to big corporations, both personally and through their campaigns. Corporate lawbreakers often do go unpunished. Poverty and unemployment"....read more at the link that I provided in my previous post.

Remember, our nation, and our well being can only be taken from us if we allow it.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Feb 15, 2011, at 9:53 PM

If my previous post upsets you at all you will be totally disgusted by the pictures, and facts at this link. http://www.truth-out.org/nine-pictures-o...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Feb 15, 2011, at 9:45 PM

400 people have as much wealth as half of our population. The combined net worth of the Forbes 400 wealthiest Americans in 2007: $1.5 trillion. The combined net worth of the poorest 50% of American households: $1.6 trillion.

Don't most of us think something is wrong with that?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Feb 15, 2011, at 9:41 PM

I just about fell out of my chair while watching 5 o"clock news tonight.

The Rep. was saying Obama did not make deep enough cuts in budget, The Speaker of the House said " Obama had created so many jobs during the past two years, and if some of those had to be cut SO BE IT"

Why would he want to put people out of jobs????

Is this what we are going to get from the Republicans?? I thought maybe just maybe we were going to get help from them not another recession.

-- Posted by buttons on Tue, Feb 15, 2011, at 7:11 PM

news across,

I appreciate the kind words.

-- Posted by Amy Crump on Tue, Feb 15, 2011, at 5:29 PM

Amy Crump

Thanks for clarifying the National Geographic thing.

When I last lived in Marshall, I was a regular patron of the Marshall Library. I love books. I know the Marshall Library is pretty small and yeah it may not have the resources many other city libraries have, but they do a darn good job with the shoestring budget they get.

However, at least Marshall has a library now. When my Dad was growing up, he had to use the library over at the college which was a very long walk from Montague Hill.

Thanks again for the clarification and keep up the good work over there at the Marshall Library Amy.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Feb 15, 2011, at 4:39 PM


In your comment you say,

" if Jr would have gotten the award I would feel the need to leave the country."

Lol...trust me, I know what ya mean.

That's one of the reasons I moved to another country and became a citizen of that country -- and its on the other side of the Earth lol lol lol. I knew we were in big trouble when the Republican Supreme Court appointed Dubba to the Presidency -- by a 1 vote majority, and I have yet to find in the Constitution what article, clause, or ammendment they think gives them the authority to stop or overturn a State election.

My grown up children are still in the USA. They have the right to become Australian citizens because I am an Australian citizen and I hope they will do so in the future. I hope so because they will learn as I learned that while we Americans may think we are the apex of modern civilization, there are actually much better places one can live.

And with Obama adopting so many Dubba positions...you may want to look into your own future travel plans soon...lol.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Feb 15, 2011, at 4:28 PM

Gal66, here's an example of how government can end up pooping in its own nest when it tries to deceive or distort intentions:

A few years ago the San Antonio water department had the idea of treating wastewater and recycling it for human consumption. The department wanted to purchase an open area south of town and build a reservoir and treatment facility, so a campaign was initiated to sway public interest to get behind the $300+ milllion project.

It had to be approved by the voters, so it got put on a ballot, but before the election, the water department bagan construction, and by the time of the election, $12 million had been spent. The voters turned down the project, mainly because the newspeople had done extensive investigations about who was going to benefit financially from the purchase of the land.

The story never came out, and the city quickly changed the subject, evading all attempts to get to the bottom of things. After a time, it was old news and soon forgotten, mainly on the basis of no harm, no foul.

Flim-flamming will always come to light eventually, but the public seems to prefer turning a blind eye to the unethical and illegal stuff that goes on.

This is not to say the Sedalia issue is an attempt at deception or distortion, but more a case of people not using good judgment, in my opinion.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Feb 15, 2011, at 3:59 PM

Smokin Cheeta,

thankyou for clarifying the HW, Dubbya, issue. if Jr would have gotten the award I would feel the need to leave the country.

as I remember from government class the people in congress and the president Must be American citizens like the rest of us(even tohugh they like to think they are above the law), who represent the will of the people in their area.

(although they usually only represent the money that got them elected ).

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Tue, Feb 15, 2011, at 2:45 PM

Slater my thoughts about the Sedalia problems are much the same as they are about Marshall's.

People of both towns just might not have so many problems if they did not keep us in the dark.

-- Posted by Gal66 on Tue, Feb 15, 2011, at 2:30 PM

Gal66, my point was this: The world is full of rain makers, but very few miracle workers, especially now in this time of economic decline.

Like the newspaper, I have no idea what's happening at the Sedalia city hall, but their continued silence (as reported) and inactivity to hire a firm to gather candidates speaks for itself. The mayor says the interim appointment is the best person for the job, then laters says the city administrator should be someone formally trained, with proper experience. How would you say the public should interpret those two statements?

Small cities by and large are having a devil of a time nowadays, so, if you take the word of the Sedalia Democrat News as gospel, the city would seem to be in dire straits. Every story has two sides. The problem is, which side is stating "mothing but the facts?"

I know very little about Sedalia, other than that it's too big to suit my liking, and that's one reason why I said I have no intention of locating there, but more importantly, I have no interest in living where there seems to be some kind of continuous adversarial perception between the residents and city government (like Marshall, for example).

You haven't stated your opinion about the Sedalia city hall question, other than to post the link. So, what's your thought?

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Feb 15, 2011, at 2:05 PM

Hey, a gentleman stopped by the library this morning and asked where the latest edition of our National Geographic Magazine was.

I mistakenly told him that the library had discontinued that subscription.

But I didn't catch the gentleman's name.

Spread the word! The Marshall Public Library still has copies of the National Geographic for the library patrons to read.

-- Posted by Amy Crump on Tue, Feb 15, 2011, at 11:39 AM

Slater said

"The diminished flow of federal and state dollars to cities is now hitting home with many administrators, leading me to believe that dealing with hard times (which most likely are permanent) is too much for those who were lulled into thinking the money well has no bottom."

This statement is why we needed to have the most qualified person we could get or at the very least do a very thorough search for one.

Did our City Goverment do that?

I think not!!!!!!

Slater also said

"Thank you, but I think I'll pass on locating in Sedalia"

You know Slater I don't want to move but if something was to happen I would have to think about it because there sure are not any new jobs here!

The next time your in Missouri you should take a drive to Sedalia and just see how that town has done getting new business.

-- Posted by Gal66 on Tue, Feb 15, 2011, at 11:35 AM

Gal66 - The article you posted brings to mind the article WTF posted a few months back on the same subject. It took long enough to get the guy out of the chair, and now, the silence at city hall is deafening, and telling.

Then the mayor appoints the police chief as acting city administrator, declaring that he was the logical choice since he knows the needs and what has to be done as the city "moves forward." (I DESPISE the use of catch phrases!)

From the tone of that article, the city of Sedalia would seem to be in dire straits.

What about Marshall? I've read a few posts about sewers backing up into basements during rainy periods. Is that problem an isolated one? Leaky foundations could explain some of that, I suppose.

The diminished flow of federal and state dollars to cities is now hitting home with many administrators, leading me to believe that dealing with hard times (which most likely are permanent) is too much for those who were lulled into thinking the money well has no bottom.

Thank you, but I think I'll pass on locating in Sedalia.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Feb 15, 2011, at 11:18 AM

Good post, Gal66.

Good editorial on the topic.

The last paragraph says it all.

-- Posted by Smart Dog on Tue, Feb 15, 2011, at 10:44 AM

It seems Sedalia also has a problem as well in reguards to the city administrator but their paper put out an opinion of their own about it.


-- Posted by Gal66 on Tue, Feb 15, 2011, at 10:03 AM

Hmmm.. yet GW seems to b afraid to travel outside the US for fear of arrest.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Feb 15, 2011, at 9:06 AM

George H.W. Bush is honored with the Presidential medal of FREEDOM! putting him in the same category as Maya Angelou and Gerda Wiessmann.

I have now completely lost any little faith I had in the wisdom of the American people.

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Tue, Feb 15, 2011, at 8:27 AM


Yeah...I agree.

The worst part for me was finding ground cornmeal so I could make cornbread at home here in Oz.

I looked around and found Italian Polenta which is pretty much the same thing. Its not quite as good as American ground cornmeal -- after all, who knows cornmeal better than us Americans -- but its close enough.

Before my wife retired I used to make cornbread with the palenta for my wife to share with her collegues and they all seemed to love it. In fact, they were really fascinated by it lol, and they would often suggest to my wife that she request I send more lol. So at least some Aussies seem to like cornbread pretty well.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Feb 14, 2011, at 3:16 PM

news - no cornbread! That's downright sacrilegious!!!! I think you should start a new movement over there to educate the Aussies, LOL!

-- Posted by koeller77 on Mon, Feb 14, 2011, at 8:49 AM

Oddly enough, Pete,

People in Australia eat corndogs. Usually they critize our hillbilly food. They say we fry everything. Of course, they are pretty close on that one, lol.

So it was odd when I saw that they had corn dogs in the grocery markets in Sydney...odd, yet there they were.

I haven't tried an Australian corndog yet, but I have had their version of BBQ sauce...which we I just refer to as ketchup because that is basically what it is. Worse yet, most Australians have never even heard of corn bread. Its sad but true.

But they do eat corndogs.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Feb 14, 2011, at 1:54 AM

hey Pete,

Walmart called. They said to tell ya they have lots of tasty corn dogs -- gold medal corn dogs -- gold medals they won at state fairs.

They said they have been wondering when you were going to be picking your share up.

Problem solved

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Feb 13, 2011, at 7:26 PM

Just fix a pot pie or something. Geez!

-- Posted by ladyjustice on Sun, Feb 13, 2011, at 5:24 PM


-- Posted by ladyjustice on Sun, Feb 13, 2011, at 4:10 PM

try the state fair........

-- Posted by ladyjustice on Sun, Feb 13, 2011, at 3:26 PM

Speaking of movies, I just finished downloading the 1951 movie, Bright Victory, about a soldier who was blinded during WWII, and his subsequent rehabilitation and training to become a "productive" member of society.

Now I'm clocking out to go fix the cat her bedtime snack. :)


-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Feb 13, 2011, at 1:14 AM

Slater, that is absolutely true and absolutely sad! My son called the other night and was talking about the movie, "Social Network", and how I really needed to see it, that it was an excellent movie. Based on Facebook and where it started and where it is apparently going, I don't know that I really want to see it. So...I decided to rent RED...excellent movie!

-- Posted by nouveaublogger on Sun, Feb 13, 2011, at 12:54 AM

A few months back I listened to the ramrod of Facebook talking to Charlie Rose, and all he could talk about was how much money his site was making him.

That's the only thing of importance to many.

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Feb 13, 2011, at 12:36 AM

Oklahoma Reader, I read an article earlier today on MSN about the merger of NYSE and Deutsche Boerse today. I agree, about the only thing I know for sure that is American and American made, is me! I communicate with family through Facebook, mostly so I can see the pictures they post (especially my grandson), but when I read about the investment opportunity that Facebook and Goldman Sachs was offering only to foreign account holders (Russian), that gave me pause! I really don't get on there much, but it made me want to DELETE my account!

-- Posted by nouveaublogger on Sun, Feb 13, 2011, at 12:08 AM

Slater...that's what I used to say when my kids came home from school and started telling me about something that happened to them that day...I'd say, "wait a minute, am I going to have to kick someone's butt"? (including their's, ha!). It always got me that Ohhhhhhhhhh Mooooooom that I really couldn't get enough of!

Lady Justice...you might be onto something there...my husband, closer to 60 than 50 is the biggest kid I know when 4th of July comes around. Put a package of bottle rockets within reach and he's extremely happy! For a small town, the fireworks the City puts on are pretty darn good and then there is some private entities who put on just as good, if not better, showing!

-- Posted by nouveaublogger on Sat, Feb 12, 2011, at 11:56 PM

That's funny about painting the store red and black and your red and black outfit! HA!

It's a little ironic that my kids graduated from Marshall High School (John Marshall HS) here in San Antonio. I explained to them about it, but it didn't have any meaning for either one, and I didn't really expect that it would.

People in small towns, maybe like the size of Slater, can be stand-offish, sometimes for years, but I believe you're right by saying that people generally are accepting of new people as long as the new ones make an effort to fit in. Being acquainted is a two-way proposition, for sure.

I think it's cool that some of the former students come back to visit with you. It shows a genuine regard for you, for anyone in your situation, I believe. And I know I'd feel the same way as you. Time passes so quickly. They're here one day and gone the next, many never to be seen again.

Nope, no rear kicking needed, but now you have me wondering why you'd say that. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Feb 12, 2011, at 11:39 PM

I think slater is going to steal the working class middle age men from marshall. Probably just so they can live in a place they can legaly and resposibly shoot fireworks out front on the 4th! Plus the fact the city council meetings are receptive to all. Oh and the police wont hunt you with a dog!

-- Posted by ladyjustice on Sat, Feb 12, 2011, at 11:26 PM

Slater, for the most part I feel that I have been received well, understanding that not everyone likes everyone else no matter who they are or where they are from. I tease the kids every once in awhile that I'm going to paint the place red and black (my school colors) :)...that get's them roaring. As a matter of fact, while the hubs and were living in Marshall, he had his 30th class reunion. He asked what I was wearing and I came out dressed in a red and black outfit. Needless to say....he sent me back to change! I guess, to some people, I will always be considered an outsider. Yet, to many, the town couln't be more friendly and I guess that's the way most places are. Some of the kids came in around Christmas break, that have graduated...to see me, say hello or have lunch and I can't tell you how much that means to me. I believe, I have set myself up for heartbreak...every 4 years! Can't wait to hear your story about City Hall. Do I need to go kick someone's butt? HA!

-- Posted by nouveaublogger on Sat, Feb 12, 2011, at 11:07 PM

NB, I hope you were well-received when you moved into town. I believe that's the way it was a few decades ago, and I'd like to think the same sort of hospitality still exists.

Good coffee goes along with good conversation. The conversation when we were there definitely was interesting.

I sent the photos to a couple of my old pals who've been gone from Slater longer than I have, and the consensus is that they like what you've done to the place. I always wondered what would become of the store once Mr. and Mrs. Wood no longer had it.

That was my daughter's first time in Slater since she was maybe 14 (she's now 32), and I'm not sure just what her thoughts are about the place. She's grown up as a city girl, so small town living probably isn't high on her list.

When I see you next I'll tell you about my experience when I went into the city hall looking for Ron Monnig. You'll get a laugh. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Feb 12, 2011, at 10:44 PM

Germans to buy New York Stock exchange. Not much left that we can call truly American is there?


-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Feb 12, 2011, at 10:21 PM

Lady Justice, to quote my daughter, "that's soooo high school"! Come on down, get to know us! We would be glad to have you!

Slater, I don't know about graciousness, but I do love a great cup of joe and "adult conversation"! Ha! What did all your friends think of the changes, when you showed them the pictures?

-- Posted by nouveaublogger on Sat, Feb 12, 2011, at 10:11 PM

To answer your question Nouv.......

childish theory learned in high school

-- Posted by ladyjustice on Sat, Feb 12, 2011, at 8:46 PM

NB - You're too gracious for words! I'm hoping to be back in the area toward the end of April, and I'll take you up on the offer for the coffee. :)

By the way, I've shared the photos with old friends my daughter took inside your store.

LadyJustice, I wasn't being snide, really I wasn't. I haven't lived in Slater for over 50 years, and I'll admit it seems so foreign now when I visit there, but my roots are there and no matter how it changes, it'll always be home.

NB has the right outlook - go have a look around and maybe you'll see something good you haven't noticed previously. If not, then you've only lost a bit of time. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Feb 12, 2011, at 8:08 PM


How ya doin? This is a World Class invitation to come have a cup of coffee when you get back here this Spring! We're still decent people, ;)!

-- Posted by nouveaublogger on Sat, Feb 12, 2011, at 7:40 PM

Lady Justice,

Why so anti-Slater? Is that for real, or is that you hanging onto a childish theory you gain in high school? That there is still that "rivalry", that Marshall kids and Slater kids don't mix? Well...we ain't in high school anymore!

I am a Marshall girl, who married a Slater guy. He lived in Marshall with me for about 5 years and then we moved here approximately 5 years ago. It grows on you! It really does! Now, I admit to a little bit of culture shock when first moving here (meaning I couldn't just run to any of the stores at the drop of a hat like I used to, but that just takes a little planning).

Besides all the benefits already mentioned in other comments, we have a great Mayor and an absolutely fantastic City Administrator and city council meetings that are about as transparent as it gets. They, are truly about community, growth and prosperity.

So, if you can put your anti ?.... behind you, come on down, take a look around and maybe you would decide to stay awhile.

-- Posted by nouveaublogger on Sat, Feb 12, 2011, at 7:34 PM

I live in Marshall, but Slater does have us beat by not being so uptight. The let grown up's be grown up's and those who don't wish to act like grown up's are dealt with in a singular fashion instead of punishing everyone.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Feb 12, 2011, at 4:09 PM

I have a lot of family in Slater but I live in Marshall. I find Slater to be much more fun at times. In Slater you can shoot fireworks on the Fourth of July, they have the Fall festival and the blues festival. They also have no hang ups about beer gardens. Marshall seems very prudish in comparison.

-- Posted by dhok on Sat, Feb 12, 2011, at 3:38 PM

LadyJustice, if you're anti-Slater, you'd most likely be doing yourself a favor by staying put.

There's no good reason to go to the trouble and expense of moving to be just as unhappy. You'd have to drive to Marshalll to do your shopping.

I must say, at one time in the history of the world, Slater had a pretty decent bunch of residents. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Feb 12, 2011, at 3:01 PM

I am as anti-slater as it gets. But for the first time ever I am considering the move. They just got a medical clinic. They have music festivals. On a town on town basis they are kinda beating the tar outta marshall....

-- Posted by ladyjustice on Sat, Feb 12, 2011, at 2:06 PM

I have a question. If Connie was not paid last year, but the money was budgeted for, what will happen to that money? Is it still in the city coffers waiting to be used elswhere? Is it sitting in an account somewhere drawing interest? Will Connie be receiving a lump sum of that money anytime in the future? Etc.,etc,etc.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Feb 12, 2011, at 10:21 AM


Excellent mate...lol lol lol...

Cheetah, I love reading your posts. Not only do you make darn good points but sometimes you throw in some really good humor in the process as well.

Good on ya mate!

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Feb 12, 2011, at 2:20 AM

Well, BigFatGuy, bravo for you. You took offense where none was intended. I'm all for helping people stay alive. Apparently, you're not.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Fri, Feb 11, 2011, at 6:42 PM

I thought about the questions I posed and realized what has to be sold is the package containing not only Marshall but the entire county. What is missing from the package?

-- Posted by red dog on Fri, Feb 11, 2011, at 5:25 PM

Why has the City of Marshall not been selected by business' to open a new facility in or near Marshall? Is it the infrastructure? Is it the lack of labor? Is it the location? Is it the school system? Is it for lack of enticement in the form of abatements, etc? Is it poor salesmanship? Just what is the reason(s)?

I don't have the answers. I am sure there are some who have studied the situation and have the answers. I wish someone would publish the problems so we can figure out how to fix them.

To start with, every town, big and small, want the same thing. Some are willing to give away more than others. I personally do not intend for anyone representing our city to make costly deals that will end up biting the citizens in the rear. It has happened you know.

One thing I do know. The Hab Center will soon be history. There is a large labor force just waiting for something good to come along.

As for the rest of it. Someone more informed than me will have to figure it out.

-- Posted by red dog on Fri, Feb 11, 2011, at 5:16 PM

You know what she meant and she is right because the gap between the rich and poor in this country is an all-time high. The top 20%(above $100,000) earn half(50%) of all the income made in th U.S compared with 3.4% below the poverty line. This gap has doubled since 1970.

Families who averaged $50,000 or less seen their income levels drop while those families making above $180,000 seen their income increase. How do we have a system that is allowing this to happen year after year? If we had a system that would have allowed for equal wage increases among lower and middle classes the lower wage earners would have made $6,000 more this year while middle income brackets folks would have made $13,000 more this year. This isnt whats happening as the rich are getting richer,but the middle and lower classes are getting poorer.

Those in the U.S aged 18-34 have seen their poverty levels double recently and child poverty is at 21% which means 1 out of every 5 children in this country lives in poverty. Poverty levels are at 6.3% which means the poor are now poorer than they have ever been.



-- Posted by cheesehead on Fri, Feb 11, 2011, at 5:03 PM

Thanks Kathy

That was a well worded shot at my intelligence. Maybe you can look back at my blog postings and make comments on my spelling aswell.

ask anybody schooled in teaching and they will also tell you that Americans usually dont start driving until after they reach the concrete operational stage (Piaget) of their life. If by 16 you cant tell that 100 ton train vs 1000 pound car will turn out badly for the car you don`t need a drivers licence.

in my view its not the car driver we should want to protect, the engineer is the only driver we should be worried about. and the revenue collected from tickets should go to offset the cost of a wrecked train and lost commodities.

natural selection is a Cruel but effective educator.

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Fri, Feb 11, 2011, at 4:31 PM

They post mug shots in the Sedalia paper as well. I could see if it was with an article of conviction of the crime, but not if you have not been proven guilty.

-- Posted by litlmissme on Fri, Feb 11, 2011, at 4:25 PM

BigFatGuy: Ask that question of any parent and they will tell you YES. Some people (and perhaps you are one of them) don't get the picture the first time, the second time or even the third time. Repetition in the hope of saving your life or even just keeping you from serious injury just doesn't seem like a bad idea.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Fri, Feb 11, 2011, at 4:06 PM

Miss october, why do the rich people need to be, "stood up," to? Many of those rich people had to work for what they have. Something that SOME poor people may not. Some people are poor by circumstance others are poor because they may not want to work. It's my view that the rich people who make a living scamming the poor are the ones that need to be stood up to, not the rich who worked honestly for what they have.

-- Posted by dhok on Fri, Feb 11, 2011, at 4:03 PM

Not even close to the same. In Egypt they have a very educated work force (college-professional degrees). Half of the population is under 30 years of age. And 90% of those under 30 are unemployed.

In America we have a growing untrained work force--those are the jobs that have relocated to other nations. Our population is aging-why we have so many people on entitlements and government aid. Egypt 80 million people-USA 300 million. Egypt and Israel together account for one-third of the foreign aid the USA gives. However, ONLY 1% of the Federal budget is for Foreign Aid.

-- Posted by mu-grad on Fri, Feb 11, 2011, at 3:48 PM

The Egyptian people have risen up to defeat tyranny. The Egyptian people and the American people have something in common, which is in their country the rich were getting richer and the poor were getting poorer as many there were living below the poverty rate but the difference is we havent stood up to the rich here in our country and demand a change.

-- Posted by miss october on Fri, Feb 11, 2011, at 3:38 PM

if I knew that putting my hand on the stove while it was glowing hot would end up badly and still did it would you feel the need to tell me its a bad idea?

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Fri, Feb 11, 2011, at 3:01 PM

cheesehead you apparently missed the sarcasm. so, to help out, i was being sarcastic.

-- Posted by hunterfisher on Fri, Feb 11, 2011, at 11:19 AM


It seems disrespectful to put these pictures on the internet especially when we have the innocent untill proven guilty clause. While this might be awesome to you what if we put your picture on the internet and accused you of doing something illegal?

-- Posted by cheesehead on Fri, Feb 11, 2011, at 11:11 AM

I did a story on the railroad crossing event a couple of years ago. I sat at an intersection and watched while an amazing number of people (who could CLEARLY see the train coming) just gunned their motors and raced to get across the tracks.

The idea of the program is to draw attention to the danger involved in trying to beat the train.

If anyone thinks that's not a good use of the time of local police, I suggest they make themselves available the next time someone loses the race and see the results first-hand. Maybe that would drive the point home?

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Fri, Feb 11, 2011, at 10:59 AM

eric, i know the democrat-news would never do this seeing as they don't even allow people to comment on crime stories, but check out what the carthage, mo paper does on a regular basis! awesome idea!


-- Posted by hunterfisher on Fri, Feb 11, 2011, at 10:09 AM

lady Justice have you ever tried to leave Hustlers at close to closing time? there ARE highway patrol officers in the parking lot!

and at dairy Queen

and waiting near Stonehedge

and by the bank

and and and


-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Fri, Feb 11, 2011, at 7:39 AM

This is sunday live from STAPLES Center in Los Angeles are the Grammy Awards. See EMINEM....yes the ICON...EMINEM ROCK the heck outta STAPLES!

-- Posted by EMINEMis the GREATEST EVER! on Thu, Feb 10, 2011, at 11:57 PM


Look at all that snow!!!

I sure don't miss that lol.

I hope it warms up and melts off soon folks.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 10, 2011, at 7:59 PM

Smokin' Cheetah

Great link and I think you have a very good point there...the police have an obligation to uphold the law and to protect public safety.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 10, 2011, at 4:43 PM

This railroad enforcement thing happens every year. What's the big deal?

-- Posted by red dog on Thu, Feb 10, 2011, at 4:11 PM

Does anyone know how to tell if a pro-football jersey is actually a game jersey of the named player?? Just curious!!

-- Posted by farmerwife on Thu, Feb 10, 2011, at 2:41 PM

BOX CAR COPS!!! sounds like a show on some network i dont watch

-- Posted by ladyjustice on Thu, Feb 10, 2011, at 2:18 PM

Can we get the guy who did the opinion piece on the Iowa site to do one for this site? He seems like a pretty smart guy.

-- Posted by Back in the day on Thu, Feb 10, 2011, at 1:46 PM


-- Posted by delete me on Thu, Feb 10, 2011, at 1:45 PM


-- Posted by delete me on Thu, Feb 10, 2011, at 1:45 PM


The police and government can wiretap our phone, read our emails, and even find out what library books we read. Some government official even want to monitor every pregnancy in this country and police other countries also.

The point is there are way bigger issues than the police sitting at railroad stops at least they are doing something that will save lives and enforcing laws that have been on the books for a bit.

-- Posted by Back in the day on Thu, Feb 10, 2011, at 1:42 PM

maybe we can station police at walmart, the surgeon general at mcdonalds, or maybe even highway patrolmen in huslters parking lot. i dont see much difference

-- Posted by ladyjustice on Thu, Feb 10, 2011, at 12:44 PM

are railroad tracks private property? considering the times ive seen those lights flash because of some equipment thats just stopped on the tracks i would say thats boarderline shifty police work.

-- Posted by ladyjustice on Thu, Feb 10, 2011, at 12:42 PM

I found a website that is a mirror image of the Marshall Dem news website. Its called The Daily Reporter and based in Iowa. They also were pointing out that yesterday was "Glen Beck is a moron day" which was a day to honor his birthday.

Take a look at this site and see if it looks familiar to anyone.


-- Posted by cheesehead on Thu, Feb 10, 2011, at 10:40 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
The Spencer Daily Reporter is owned by Rust Communications, the same company that owns the MDN (and a number of other news organizations). The SDR appears to use the same content management software that is used by MDN and other Rust papers. The link above is to a blog post, so it is an opinion piece, not a news story published by the paper.

as I understant the situation there are flashing red lights around the train track crossing area. and trains are big very loud machines.

do the cops really need to tell us that standing or parking infront of a 100 ton piece of steel going 30 to 50 mph is a bad idea?

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Thu, Feb 10, 2011, at 8:35 AM


Are you saying the police cannot enforce rail crossing laws and narcotic laws at the same time? Do we need to increase the number of police personnel? Perhaps we need to replace police department management? What ever the problem, it can be fixed but ignoring rail crossing safety and the serious threat to life it presents is not a viable solution.

For those of us who have lost loved ones and good friends to unlawful rail crossings, death from meth and death from train/car/truck collision have the same result...loss of a loved one, pain, and of course misery.

I think we have the resources to wipe out illicit narcotic production and illicit rail crossing both.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 10, 2011, at 2:44 AM

cops should be in meth houses not box cars.

-- Posted by ladyjustice on Thu, Feb 10, 2011, at 1:08 AM

I am happy to see the Police are emphasizing raildoad track crossing safety.

I have had a number of good friends who died as a result of not stopping at tracks and/or trying to race the train across the track. They are all quite dead now. Not even one of them survived. The one that survived the longest (one month) lost both his legs and one arm. He did regain consciousness just long enough to learn what had happened to him...and then he died.

This kind of tragedy is both unnecessary and preventable.

Marshall Police Department...Good on ya mates!!

Your hard work will save lives.

Keep up the good work fellas!

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Feb 9, 2011, at 11:57 PM

Did the police ever catch and arrest Dennis Evans? I havent seen an update on this story.

-- Posted by 17mizzou17 on Wed, Feb 9, 2011, at 12:32 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Yes. Mr. Evans' case has not yet been concluded and he remains in custody.

No diapers. http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/08/fake-...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Feb 8, 2011, at 8:36 PM

Is there any news on why the Slater School Board didn't renew the contract for Mr. McEachern for superindent. We are all very curious.

-- Posted by aen2012 on Tue, Feb 8, 2011, at 6:06 PM

ND - funny! :)

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Feb 8, 2011, at 9:21 AM

I found a dead Racoon buried in my snow? Did anyone else find any Racoons?

-- Posted by cheesehead on Mon, Feb 7, 2011, at 6:38 PM

I think someone is just jealous that the equipment wasnt used to clear their driveway too.

-- Posted by speedfingers on Mon, Feb 7, 2011, at 4:35 PM

And sorry - I got your name wrong M. Pathy :)

-- Posted by MG2008 on Mon, Feb 7, 2011, at 3:04 PM

M. Patty - WELL SAID!!! I'd much rather go without mail for a day or two than to make anyone get out in the weather and conditions we had just to put mail in my mailbox. Thank you to the mail carriers who were out delivering mail while I got to stay holed up in my house!

-- Posted by MG2008 on Mon, Feb 7, 2011, at 2:57 PM

I'd like to say a few words regarding our mail carriers and their exemplary service during Missouri's worst blizzard of the last decade:

Those of you who have the audacity to whine and complain about not receiving mail last Tuesday and Wednesday need to pull your heads out and get a grip on reality. I had the distinct honor of observing one of these dedicated, responsible, selfless persons try to make their rounds on a rural route after the snow. I had my eyes opened to the precarious and often times dangerous situations encountered in an effort to conscientiously deliver the mail to all residents. At least one third of the public roads and private lanes had not been bladed. Three quarters of the boxes were buried behind and only accessable through 2 to 3 foot snow drifts. And still this carrier delivered 90% of the mail and packages that had made it to the Marshall depot for distribution on this route. Honestly, is a newspaper, flier, magazine, even a government check, worth the risk of life threatening personal injury to ANYONE? Surely we need to re-assess priorities here. This self-serving, insular attitude of the complainers is just another indicator of the sad state of our nation. Buck up, folks. Lets be bigger than self only.

-- Posted by M. Pathy on Mon, Feb 7, 2011, at 12:38 PM

-- Posted by M. Pathy on Mon, Feb 7, 2011, at 1:13 PM

Thank you Eric, you guys were on top of it. I should have waited an hour or so. I am a bit surprised that on Mr. Gibbs comment though, seems odd that it is their policy to clear out on-call persons driveways. Maybe that makes more sense than calling the person(s) in and have them standying by at the plant (and on the clock) during such emrgencies. Seems it would have been easy enough for him to have asked the foreman in charge of the operations/department if they did any 'on-call personnel driveway clean-up operations' on the day that the person reported the story and go from there. Its not like the bureaucry is so large at MMU that he could not have gotton a quick answer to the question without having to know the exact location, time, etc. MMU is not the Army where if some private is seen doing something wrong and a person reports the wrongdoing to the Secretary of Defense, where he has a 20-layer bureaucracy to filter through in order to get the details.

-- Posted by oceanlord49 on Mon, Feb 7, 2011, at 11:24 AM

Smokin' Cheetah you will be glad to know the dead horse topic now has it's own place.

Funny how some topics just don't seem be OK with you!

-- Posted by Gal66 on Mon, Feb 7, 2011, at 11:16 AM

An interesting exchange over the MMU employee allegedly having company folks clear his snowed-in driveway for him. I would suspect that neither MMU policy nor management peroggative would allow use of company assets for personal use. But nevertheless, this might be a good question for Marshall News to ask MMU folks about. Ask if they know of the incident and what is their policy for such use of MMU assets for personal gain. There might even be some relevant circumstances here as to why they did what they allegedly did. Somehow an arguement that in the heat of the battle it was necessary for such action to allow for the city to get employees out in order to get their streets cleared is hard to follow. Did they do this for every MMU snow truck driver and equipment operator or just this one?

What do you think Eric?


-- Posted by oceanlord49 on Mon, Feb 7, 2011, at 10:18 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Pat's on it. Will have a story in today's paper and online soon.

big3fan_62 the man that lives in the house works for MMU, he was setting in a MMU truck along with another MMU worker watching the MMU backhoe remove the snow.

I know with 100% certainty all 3 of these men work for MMU and 100% certainty it was a MMU backhoe.

big3fan_62 I doubt your co-workers at MMU came by and cleaned your drive-way did they?

-- Posted by Gal66 on Mon, Feb 7, 2011, at 8:13 AM


Once again you're wrong. I just want the evil rich to pay their fare share. Unfortunatley they are the only one's who can to hire lobbyists to slant everything in thier favor. You wanna denfend 'em? Go ahead.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Feb 7, 2011, at 8:03 AM

w the f... you are right, if we did not have tax codes with 76000+ pages made up of 3.5 million words or more then the tax code writers, like Charlie Rangle would know how to pay their taxes and the common folk would know how to do their taxes and it would be easier to figure out who is paying and who is not... the tax code is nothing but special interest loopholes that only the working people are required to follow.

But... you wont be happy until those evil rich people have 100% of their money confiscated....

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Feb 7, 2011, at 1:33 AM

Cheesy... that is the trouble with liberals want to bail every body out when they have bad policies and gambled on high risk financials... people that dont deserve to be bailed out get the most benefit from the spend spend spend liberal agenda... lol

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Feb 7, 2011, at 1:30 AM

Here is a list of 8 major corporations that owe us money. Some are known to have tax free havens outside the country and received tarp bailouts.

Why do we allow these corporations to evade paying taxes, yet we still bail them out when they need help, with taxpayer funds. Its about time to take back our money.


-- Posted by cheesehead on Sun, Feb 6, 2011, at 1:56 PM

Just for the record: MMU takes care of your fresh water, sewage, and electricity (distribution and production). Utilities! MMS takes care of trash removal and streets ( pothole repair and snow removal). Services! Please take the time to know the difference, also the trucks have different logos on the side. Just because someones driveway was cleaned out by a backhoe, does not mean it was a member of MMU or one of their personel!

-- Posted by big3fan_62 on Sun, Feb 6, 2011, at 1:03 PM

Sure hope IF and WHEN this snows starts to melt, I don"t have water in my basement, the ground will be so saturated, Where oh where will it all go????

-- Posted by buttons on Sat, Feb 5, 2011, at 8:07 PM


Let it all out. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Feb 5, 2011, at 4:46 PM

ALL people who worked at removing snow and helping others in any way I leave you HUGS & KISSES! THANKS..For the whiners and complainers would you like some cheese with your whine?

-- Posted by soupy on Sat, Feb 5, 2011, at 3:39 PM

Ditto to k_m and Amy

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Feb 5, 2011, at 11:13 AM

"We make ourselves miserable, or we make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same."

But why would anyone want to live with themselves if they are miserable? Stuff happens, get over it. When you're out there shoveling out of your driveway for the fourth time, consider yourselves lucky that you have a driveway, a home, a job that you could buy a shovel, warm clothes, a warm house to go back into, a bed to rest in, a cup of coffee or food to replenish your energy. Then think of the many millions of people in this world who have none of these things, are struggling to survive everyday, yet complain to no one.

Thank you city officials, city employees, police, ambulance, fire, postal workers, street crews, sanitation dept., MMU workers, store owners and employees, hospital workers and health care employees, 911 dispatchers, and all those hundreds of people I may have forgotten who have busted your behinds to keep things running through this storm and its' aftermath.

-- Posted by k_m on Sat, Feb 5, 2011, at 11:08 AM

Okay, I asked a closer source and found out that the way MMU is set up is pretty simple.

They belong to an energy pool that purchases power from a variety of sources (like Iatan or even Marshall). Then everyone in the pool purchases the power from the pool.

What we are paying for with our utility bills is that power and the cost of employees who maintain all the systems: electricity, water, and sewer.

Any profit that MMU gets goes strictly to improving the systems.

I'm just glad that MMU is taking care of us during storms rather than a company like Ameren in St. Louis that had people out of power for weeks a couple years ago.


-- Posted by Amy Crump on Sat, Feb 5, 2011, at 10:56 AM

If you are in good health shoveling snow is good exercise. I have only got one of my drives shoveled so far. I actually worked up a sweat while shoveling. You can shovel a lot of snow in 20-30 minutes then go in have some coffee cool off and go do it again. Just think you won't have to do this come spring. Then we will have to mow the grass. So each year which do we spend the most time doing shoveling snow or cutting grass? I would say cutting grass.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Feb 5, 2011, at 6:00 AM

The blade lock's just won't work! They cannot carry this much snow past you're driveway then have time to empty before clearing the next. If someone out there would like to take the financial burden of getting new equipment that is large enough to handle 18" of snow then we would be glad to use it, other wise we will continue to use the equipment that can handle an average 6" snow.

-- Posted by Alross on Fri, Feb 4, 2011, at 8:34 PM

We went to the chili supper at the knights of colubus bldg tonite, my hat is off to the missouri valley rodeo team and coach, hope you have another one soon.

-- Posted by mofireman on Fri, Feb 4, 2011, at 6:53 PM

Heh heh...A message from the sub-tropic region of Texas:


-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Feb 4, 2011, at 6:18 PM

All of the "problems" with snow and clearing the snow and the mail and all the rest pale into insignificance in the face of this story:


Our snowstorm was like a lump in your oatmeal. Barney Brown had a real, honest-to-God problem.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Fri, Feb 4, 2011, at 5:25 PM

I could understand that the blade attachments might not work on the initial plowing with this much snow, but it would seem like they would work on the subsequent trips. People shouldn't have to clean out the end of their driveways time after time.

-- Posted by outsider on Fri, Feb 4, 2011, at 5:20 PM


You may be right but just think of all the stuff we could pay for if the corporations and the obscenely wealthy actually paid their fair share. Cry me a river.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Feb 4, 2011, at 5:05 PM

Well I finally dug out of this...And I must say I am looking forward to spring...I have an 8 foot to 10 foot high snow mountain behind my car...I just hope nobody takes my parking space you might be seeing a story about me being arrested lol

-- Posted by Jason1969 on Fri, Feb 4, 2011, at 5:02 PM

Snow plowed by my mail box, Snow plowed in my drive entrance,My street just cleared one time, My trash not picked up, South end cleared before North end, on & on.whine,whine,whine.. Great Job steet department on our street's. Great job MMU keeping our power going. Great job all city employee's who have been working your butt's off to keep thing's going. Slater is correct American's do complain a lot and we have become a nation of soft behinded people for the most part. Sometime's when stuff get's tough we must suck it up and pull together not cry,cry,cry about every little thing that doesn't go our way.

-- Posted by Marshall Man on Fri, Feb 4, 2011, at 4:54 PM

news YOUR warning to the "Conservatives" about the working class revolting when they are tired of the politicos taking too much is exactly what the Liberals need to hear... they are the ones who continually demand more and more spending more and more welfare, more and more entitlements, more and more government interference and government take over and more and more removal of freedoms and liberties...

Conservatives seem to be saying that enough is enough to the liberal spending FAILURE of the leftist government take over and bail outs and SPENDING... NOTE: because I know you will say something... Republicans have their share if liberal spend spend spend addicts

-- Posted by mrxray on Fri, Feb 4, 2011, at 4:46 PM

LOL... it snowed!!!! A lot! Guess what happens when it snows alot? The snow plows plow the roads, or you would complain that they did not plow... and when they plow, it is pretty much a given that they will pile up a huge pile in your driveway entrance. I know with the amount of snow we had on our road that the county did not even plow it the day after the snow... neighbors had one tractor blade width plowed down the road... I had to scoop snow at least twice during the snow storm and guess what? I had to remove the pile that the county plows piled up in my drive entrance... I KNEW it was going to happen.

With the amount of snow that came down, they about had to plow continuously without concern for the entrances to every single driveway because to slow down or stop plowing at the driveways would have been impossible and inefficient.

Like someone else said... Ya'all just like to complain to hear your voices...

-- Posted by mrxray on Fri, Feb 4, 2011, at 4:42 PM

The city used to have blade attachments on their plows that they could drop at a driveway and keep the snow from being piled up again. They would then raise the attachment when they got to the other side of the driveway and resume their business. Do they not have these anymore...or do they just choose not to use them?

-- Posted by outsider on Fri, Feb 4, 2011, at 4:33 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
City officials said those attachments could not be used in this storm because of the large amount of snow.

All the grousing going on about snow being plowed into driveways and police not responding when it was obvious they were as handicapped as anyone puts me in mind of the wartime images of soldiers idly complaining about conditions. Complaining is an inherent part of being an American.

It will all pass, Mr. Editor. As you mentioned, frustration can be the devil during times like these, but we're all thankful that people are on the job, working to deal with the emergencies when they arise.

I don't see you coming away from this with black eyes. People on the other side know you're stuck in the middle while trying to appease everyone.

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Feb 4, 2011, at 3:26 PM

Editor Crump, I believe you're off target. I haven't seen any negative comments about the way city employees are dealing with the storm's aftermath.

Are you implying that stating an observation about the MMU employee using MMU employees and equipment to clean his driveway during working hours is a general denigration of all city employees?

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Feb 4, 2011, at 2:12 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
I'm not referring to the observation about the MMU employee's driveway. I'm referring to complaints about police and plow drivers. I should have been more specific, perhaps.

So Eric I should not voice my opinions about what to me amounts to theft?

-- Posted by Gal66 on Fri, Feb 4, 2011, at 1:50 PM

I realize the storm this week has caused a great deal of inconvenience and frustration for just about everybody in the county.

The biggest frustration for me is not the snow but the comments bashing our public servants, who have been working their tails off since Tuesday to rescue stranded motorists, clear streets and deal with any number of other difficulties residents have faced.

Please stop.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Fri, Feb 4, 2011, at 1:07 PM

kenjen KMMO reported 14"

modernmetalhead that is laughable they would just have to fine me because if the pipes in my house busted I would turn the water off anyway I could.

I would guess the cost of the fine would be much less that the damage.

-- Posted by Gal66 on Fri, Feb 4, 2011, at 12:57 PM


The official snowfall anywhere from

14" to Holy ....!

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Feb 4, 2011, at 12:56 PM

Gal66, no they dont fix your water pipes, but they do have to turn off your meter. You know it is illegal to turn it off yourself.

-- Posted by modernmetalhead on Fri, Feb 4, 2011, at 12:36 PM

can anyone tell us what the official snowfall amount was. thanks

-- Posted by kenjen on Fri, Feb 4, 2011, at 12:13 PM

Someone closer to you would be in a better position to answer that question, Amy, but I didn't see anything in the site that indicates any portion of its revenues comes from taxes.

I'm guessing the city retains the right to hire and fire and otherwise regulate MMU activities, but doesn't provide financial support.

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Feb 4, 2011, at 12:05 PM

I guess I thought that the utility bills that we pay go toward the costs of the services we receive, not for the employees.

Isn't MMU itself supported by taxes? Gosh, I need an education on how this works!

-- Posted by Amy Crump on Fri, Feb 4, 2011, at 11:55 AM

I was reading about MMU, and it appears to be a similar/same type operation to our electric and water companies here in San Antonio.

Although they're self-sufficient in terms of operating revenues, they're under city jurisdiction, and from what I've read, MMU is tied to the Marshall city administration in the same manner.

MMU bills itself as a community-owned enterprise, declaring that every rate payer is part owner. Well, they may say that, but it's only in a hypothetical sense.

So, although MMU is somewhat autonomous, it still reports to the city.

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Feb 4, 2011, at 11:51 AM

Amy I can see how that could be confusing sorry.

I am referring to MMU in general?

MMU is funded by us the people that pay the uility bills.

-- Posted by Gal66 on Fri, Feb 4, 2011, at 11:46 AM


I found your last sentence confusing.

Clarification please -- are you saying that the MMU employees have their utility bills paid by us or are you referring to MMU in general?

-- Posted by Amy Crump on Fri, Feb 4, 2011, at 11:33 AM

momandgramma and Jason1969 let me point out incase you did not see it.

I was wrong to say that it was a city worker as it was a MMU workers house and MMU employees.

The City of Marshall and MMU are 2 different eneties.

Jason I accept that you do not think their was nothing wrong with it.

But let me ask you this if you think it was ok that not all the employee's of MMU got the same perk?

And let me remind you MMU gets their money from us the people that pay their UILITY BILLS

-- Posted by Gal66 on Fri, Feb 4, 2011, at 10:28 AM


I agree... why waste tax payers money when the employees can do what the rest of us do in weather situation or any other situation

1) do it

2) or......pay have it done .....but seems a lot of you scratch my back I will scratch yours in this town with city people

FYI I might be wrong yet do not think I am ..you have frozen pipes city is not gonna fix it lmao that cost is on you buddy

-- Posted by momandgramma on Fri, Feb 4, 2011, at 10:08 AM

I have been thinking of a proper response to the driveway incident with the street crews...The ones that cleaned it out although I think there is nothing wrong here that was done...This was done to ensure the availabilty of that person...I do say it does give it a look of being improper...

-- Posted by Jason1969 on Fri, Feb 4, 2011, at 9:26 AM

Looks like I got deleted again! What a contentious person I am. hee! hee!

-- Posted by Amy Crump on Fri, Feb 4, 2011, at 7:13 AM

modernmetalhead do you really think if your water pipes freeze that MMU is going to do anything about it (here is a hint for you you better call a plumber).

You are intitled to your opinion I don't have a problem with that.

-- Posted by Gal66 on Fri, Feb 4, 2011, at 6:44 AM


I feel sorry for you mate. I know how it is to have to repeatably shovel my driveway in a bad snow.

I grew up in both Marshall and Chicago. In Chicago this kind of snowstorm and deep freeze was just par for the course back then. I remember they never blocked ours or anyone elses driveway with snow. they were careful not to do that. Perhaps Marshall can learn a few tips on how to do from the City of Chicago...seriously...'cause mate what you went through was completely unnecessary and uncalled for.

No one should have to go through that nonsense.

Let's hope things will change in the future and perhaps they can learn a new method of removing the snow from the street -- one that does not include blocking your driveway.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Feb 4, 2011, at 5:04 AM

It kind of sounds like to me, that Gal66 shouldn't make any calls to MMU if her water pipes freeze and break, or her lights fail to brighten her rooms due to a lack of electricity, and expect someone to be out in 5 minutes to fix her problem. Who cares if the guy was in a company truck, you know maybe he could have been doing it because of the fact he might be home and get called out after hours. Then he might be able to get to your home quicker instead of having to trudge his way through the snow and end up taking an hour to get to his destination.

OR... he could be just wasting your oh so precious tax dollars... I tell you what, I would rather all of my utilities be working properly and pay a tad bit more to make sure that man is able to get to work than have problems and not have someone to maintain them. But that's just my opinion.

-- Posted by modernmetalhead on Fri, Feb 4, 2011, at 2:49 AM

solution for somone to purpose ( i cannot as for my status is one of a rougue vegabond ): maybe a simple CITY OF MARSHALL TO MDN ALERT......maybe they can post or kmmo us approx. snow plans and maybe get some sort of advance warning and/or plans for such events (Im pretty sure they do). And if they do not have a logical plan ( and i'm sure they do ) annnnd we know this plan and we plaaann. the happy citizen can reasonably recognize that at some point:

1. they cant make snow disappeaer. aka they gotta move it somewhere and if they didnt block your (whiney voice) 'maaaaaaaiiiilboockks' then you would be mad that your street contained 17 sub compacts.

2. you knew 8 days ago a storm was coming or you had the means to obtain this info.

3. you could have went to a local business and got what you needed so you wouldnt have to go with out in the BLIZZARD ADVISORY.

I'am not taking a side here, really, I am just asking, " Is having your mailbox blocked and one drift on the curb after a blizzard reasonable"? I tend to think in the 'internet info age' public info should be made readily available to the people that pay for the public activities via the internet. Do we not have paid positions that record such things? And if they type them its a simple copy and paste. would this be a city council issue? democracies need mass and un-bias participation to suceed. thats the whole principle. but we just whine on the net.... imo

-- Posted by ladyjustice on Fri, Feb 4, 2011, at 12:35 AM

Do city workers block there own driveway? I understand it happens to clear the roads and I can deal with that. I shoveled yesterday to clear my way out of the drive and didnt think twice about it. Now they come back and block it again at 11:30 at night. Was going to bed but I guess I will shovel some more since I need it opened up by 4:30 .

-- Posted by jickjick65349 on Thu, Feb 3, 2011, at 11:59 PM


That's a good point.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 3, 2011, at 10:48 PM

outsidelookin'in and iluvsports it is not MMU's job to do the streets that is the street departments.

I was told today MMU is not the same as the city of Marshall.

For your information both autos that park in that garage are 4X4's and had both been out of the garage that day in fact one of them was out at the time they showed up to clean the driveway.

Here is an idea for all of you that do not like what I had to say.

Try asking your boss if they will let you use their equipment while you are at work getting paid to do a home project.

-- Posted by Gal66 on Thu, Feb 3, 2011, at 10:16 PM

To give context to NewsAcross comment below it was in reply to my statement regarding the minimum wage I placed on the political blog. To give context to my statement there, I followed it with a short poem there. Got all that? Here they are (full disclosure). ;)

This is the story of Tedwell, Ted.

A wonderful man many have said.

When his next door neighbor was in a tight,

Ted was at his door day, and night.

A few blocks away was a parallel plight,

that poor soul's yard was a terrible sight.

Tedwell drove by, and rendered a sneer,

"there are too many bums that live around here".

Note: I know no one named Ted Tedwell, and this poem is not intended as a slight toward anyone with that name.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Feb 3, 2011, at 9:53 PM

I really do not understand those that grouse about the minimum wage. Surely they know that it is now at its lowest ebb in its history. It is no where near what it was when it started. The so called "good jobs" at ten dollars an hour, in equivalent dollars are what the minimum wage once was.

We now have millions working for less than what the minimum wage was originally intended to provide for, and still that is too much for some people.

It is amazing how heartless some people can be to their fellow Americans. I would like to excuse it as ignorance, but sadly I see more evidence that it is just mean spirited.


-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Feb 3, 2011, at 9:25 PM

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Feb 3, 2011, at 10:11 PM


The saddest part is that many -- and probably most -- of those crying about the minimum wage owe their position in life to the unions -- the fellow workers -- of their parents and grandparents...and don't even realize it.

Old 19th Century concepts of a "Root, Hog, or Die" utopia were as hard on the grandparents and great-grandparents of the folks screaming for a return to root, hog, or die today as they were on the grandparents and great-grandparents of todays union workers.

That is why those folks rose up and established unions in the first place.

CONSERVATIVES: please take careful note of what is going on in Tunisia, Algeria, Yemen, Jordan, and Egypt...that is what happens when the working class decide they won't take it anymore. Third Class Coach Theory of economics is well supported by empirical evidence. When the working class have nothing left to lose but their lives, they don't mind giving up that life -- as long as they can take some rich folks with them...and in the end, the masses always win.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 3, 2011, at 9:49 PM

"US plan: Replace Mubarak with torture-linked 'CIA point man'"


-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 3, 2011, at 9:39 PM

If MMU employees can't get out of their own driveways, how do you suppose they are going to come clear your street? Think about it......

-- Posted by outsidelookin'in on Thu, Feb 3, 2011, at 8:48 PM

Seriously you are going to complain about a city worker doing there own drive way? They are spending countless hours in the cold taking care of your streets while you are nice and cozy in your home. I would be ashamed to say anything negitive to these people out working there butt off in the cold and being away from there family. Thank you MMU

-- Posted by iluvsports on Thu, Feb 3, 2011, at 6:31 PM

MU-grad, Gal66 clearly stated the city employee was already at work when he showed up with crew and equipment to clear his driveway, while on the clock, we'll presume.

Maybe he paid the city for his time, the time of the other individuals, and the use of the equipment, then again maybe not. Maybe the city allows this sort of thing, at taxpayer expense.

All else failing, he could've walked out to the street and climbed into a city vehicle for a ride to work.

Appearance is everything, you know.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Feb 3, 2011, at 5:24 PM

mu-grad the point is the guy was all ready out and and was setting in a truck watching.

But hey if your ok with someone getting their drive cleaned off buy someone that is getting paid by to do something that I am sure they did not have the ok of the management of MMU that's your right.

But I really do not think that getting his drive way done by an MMU worker with MMU equipment was right.

-- Posted by Gal66 on Thu, Feb 3, 2011, at 4:52 PM

Again, maybe that MMU employee needed to work and keep your services running. You expect those services.

-- Posted by mu-grad on Thu, Feb 3, 2011, at 4:18 PM

jamie77 and everyone else that has seen what I had to say about the city workers.

And the most important people I am sure I offended (the city workers) I was wrong it was not the city workers.

It was MMU workers no wonder our rates are so high.

I did not know MMU and the city are not the same entity.

-- Posted by Gal66 on Thu, Feb 3, 2011, at 4:08 PM

What were all of the police cars and ambulance doing on College street earlier today? Hope that everyone is okay...looked pretty serious.

-- Posted by RedAngel on Thu, Feb 3, 2011, at 1:53 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
I believe it was a medical situation that required police assistance.

I was in Marshall and Slater last night and I want to say the crews of both cities have done a fine job with the amount of snow we had. I see they are running out of room to put it but all streets I traveled had been plowed and no problems. Some will be plowing snow into next week especially in the country.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Feb 3, 2011, at 12:29 PM

I can't speak for the county, although I can only imagine what it's like in the country but all in all our city crews have done a great job with pushing the snow out of the way.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Feb 3, 2011, at 11:35 AM

Jason is the Oats bus running? The taxi service? Have you called the pharmacy to see if they deliver? I know of a couple that do.

Before the next storm arrives go buy a sccop shovel from Orchslens they work better than the filmsy show shovels they sell anyway.

Good luck!

-- Posted by litlmissme on Thu, Feb 3, 2011, at 11:32 AM

i am so mad at myself for not preparing well I did try but there is no snow shovels in town i have to get my car cleared off I may need to get my step daughter some meds..anybody around old vest circle that wants to help free a ford contour which is parked in front of where i live can let me borrow a shovel please come by

-- Posted by Jason1969 on Thu, Feb 3, 2011, at 10:19 AM

Eric and the crew have been doing a terrific job during this cold and snow event. The parent company's website style is very functional and helpful.

-- Posted by former editor on Thu, Feb 3, 2011, at 6:50 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Thank you!

For anyone interested, here are some really good photos of the aftermath of Cyclone Yasi.


-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 3, 2011, at 5:05 AM

Are there any schools kids trying to make a buck by shoveling this year? If so I have a project for them.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Feb 3, 2011, at 4:13 AM

Gal66 I guess they can't take their own trash in and throw it away this week either. What else do you expect, I would do the same thing. Why don't you go do their job for 12 hrs and then go shovel you're drive for 3 hrs, eat, take a shower then do it all over again. I think you should just give them a break, it's not like they are constantly using city equipment year round. You have the right to you're own opinion though, so do what you would like.

-- Posted by jamie77 on Thu, Feb 3, 2011, at 12:33 AM

Well rr3yv0 it is a long driveway and the snow was about 3 foot deep through most of it.

mu-grad the owner of that house was setting in a truck watching the guy running the loader so he was already out and about and in a city pick-up to boot.

Also you know I am expected to be at work and my boss would not come clean my drive way.

jamie77 why should I not complain!!!! our tax money and city equipment should not be use by city enployes to do work on their own property

And like I said above the owner of the home was setting in a city truck watching!

-- Posted by Gal66 on Wed, Feb 2, 2011, at 11:41 PM

Well, Missouri has been defeated by OSU. Arriving at the arena just six hours before game time, probably didn't help. After hearing they were stranded in KC airport, I had wondered if they would make it. Hope a road trip brings a win for the Tigers in the conference.

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Wed, Feb 2, 2011, at 10:22 PM

Nice try Slater but I still have the shovel.

-- Posted by broke-n-busted on Wed, Feb 2, 2011, at 7:29 PM

Can you tell us where this castle is?

Response by Eric Crump/Editor:

I neglected to ask Sarah for the address, but I believe its near Lincoln and Mitchell in Marshall.

-- Posted by pennypincher1 on Wed, Feb 2, 2011, at 5:21 PM
Response by Sarah Reed/Staff writer:
Yes. It's on Lincoln between Mitchell and Yerby. You can't miss it.

Posted on facebook: Photo of a church display board that said: "Will whoever is praying for snow please stop?"

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Feb 2, 2011, at 4:22 PM

Wow 3 hrs that must be a big driveway or a really small shovel.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Feb 2, 2011, at 3:14 PM

Perhaps that worker needs to get out of their driveway to keep city services running. We expect them to get to work. How else can this happen.

-- Posted by mu-grad on Wed, Feb 2, 2011, at 3:07 PM

You shouldnt complain! They are digging there self out quickly so that they can remain on the job! If they don't get out then no body will get out. Do you use you're work resources to you're advantage? I bet you do! Leave them alone.

-- Posted by jamie77 on Wed, Feb 2, 2011, at 3:05 PM

You know I don't complain much about the city workers even when they fill my driveway in after I just spent 3hrs cleaning it out as I know they have to do their jobs and that is just going to happen.

But I will have something to say when a city backhoe & loader come down the street and clean a fellow city workers driveway out with that loader.

In my opinion that is wrong period.

And I will be calling the city about this.

-- Posted by Gal66 on Wed, Feb 2, 2011, at 2:48 PM

well i tried using my baby's high chair didn't work well did manage to walk to car and start it this sucks.

-- Posted by Jason1969 on Wed, Feb 2, 2011, at 2:47 PM

Jason, B-N-B has a shovel he's been saving for me, and I'm sure he'd let you borrow it rather than have it rust away waiting for me. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Feb 2, 2011, at 1:47 PM

Jason cut the edge of your broom on a slant, soak your broom in water, set it outside for thirty minutes, and get after it. That ought to lop a year or two off the project.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Feb 2, 2011, at 1:33 PM

Yikes, Jason1969, longer than you are old, if your only tool for snow removal is a broom!

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Feb 2, 2011, at 11:59 AM

wonder how long its going to take to dig out of this with just a broom.

-- Posted by Jason1969 on Wed, Feb 2, 2011, at 9:59 AM

Just want to thank every one for prayers and concern about my brother-in-law and grandson, they were found about 12:15pm last night. They were both ok, very cold, hungry and thirsty, The truck had hit a snow drift and slid into a ditch.The MODOT truck become stuck and a road grader from Slater had to be called to get them out, arrived home in Nelson at 4am this morning. and they were on AA. I did not know his grandson was with him when I posted on speak out, again THANK YOU

-- Posted by buttons on Wed, Feb 2, 2011, at 9:22 AM

Oh I'm so glad they have been found and r safe.

-- Posted by Scarpetta on Wed, Feb 2, 2011, at 9:18 AM

That's great news!

-- Posted by Amy Crump on Wed, Feb 2, 2011, at 9:00 AM

Larry Nease and his grandson were found and apparently are safe. Pat will have more details soon.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Wed, Feb 2, 2011, at 8:45 AM

Any news on button's brother-in-law?

-- Posted by Amy Crump on Wed, Feb 2, 2011, at 8:41 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Pat's trying to find out now.

Eric that is a great photo of the snowy street.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Feb 2, 2011, at 1:35 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Thanks news! Sarah Reed took that one. I'll pass along your comment.

Buttons, we're adding our prayers to those from momof3girls.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Feb 1, 2011, at 11:04 PM

and its on the way up because of people like Pat Nolan. Thank you.

-- Posted by ladyjustice on Tue, Feb 1, 2011, at 11:01 PM

in response to Kathy,

I believe its something more than that. I believe they started on pony and no matter what tried to deliver. I wish more institutions could be counted on like our postal service. They dont want to deliver coupons any more then we want to throw them away. We need to stop frequenting places that flood us with trash. WE RUN THIS COUNTRY

-- Posted by ladyjustice on Tue, Feb 1, 2011, at 10:59 PM

Selmac8 -- I sent an email with my cell number to the address you registered. Call me if she still needs a ride. I'll go get her.

-- Posted by Pat Nolan on Tue, Feb 1, 2011, at 10:56 PM

A friend of mine has been stranded in her van for 7 hours weighting on the tow company, Her husband called the police and they won't go out. Way to serve and protect there Marshall PD.

-- Posted by Selmac8 on Tue, Feb 1, 2011, at 10:13 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
If there weren't any 4-wheel drive vehicles available it would have been impossible for the police to get to the van. EMS vehicles and MoDOT trucks were getting stuck right and left last night, too. Our emerrgency personnel were risking their lives all night rescuing stranded motorists. Any more comments disparaging their efforts will be deleted.

buttons....will be sending prayers that he returns safely! Please keep us updated!

-- Posted by momof3girls on Tue, Feb 1, 2011, at 9:18 PM

My brother-in-law still has not been found, he has a bad heart abd is in #2 kidney failure and his 14 y/o grandson is with him, Snow plows is having hard time gettin down AA, so please if any one lives on that road and has a tractor that can get thru, our family would appreciate it if they would be kind enough to look, THANK YOU

-- Posted by buttons on Tue, Feb 1, 2011, at 9:16 PM

The USPS can call it anything they want to - it's junk mail to me and probably to most people. I realize they get paid to deliver it, but risking people's lives for that stuff borders on the criminal. JMHO.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, Feb 1, 2011, at 7:42 PM

If any one lives on AA please keep your eyes open for a brown ford truck. My brother-in-law left Nelson at 2pm enroute to the Hardeman store to pick up my neice and has not been seen since. He is deaf so he does not have a cell phone, he did not make it to the store. If anyone sees him please call the sheriff dept. THANK YOU

-- Posted by buttons on Tue, Feb 1, 2011, at 7:05 PM

Kathy, the mail class you mention is officially titled by the USPS as business class mail.

-- Posted by John Q. on Tue, Feb 1, 2011, at 7:00 PM

USPS did at least some of their routes today. I did get mail...mostly junk.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, Feb 1, 2011, at 6:01 PM

My condolances to my fellow Marshalites who are braving the extreme cold and snow.

I know its not easy.

You might want to count your blessings though. It could be worse.

Its been 110 to 115 degrees here in Sydney for 3 days now and its expected to last till Sunday. In additon, a massive Hurricane -- one that makes Katrina look like kid's stuff -- is about to smash into our already flooded State of Queensland.

I guess either way ya go in this World, your darned if you do and your darned if you don't lol lol lol.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Feb 1, 2011, at 5:52 PM

I would be happy to think the USPS carriers were able to use common sense and come in out of the blizzard.

-- Posted by Pasta on Tue, Feb 1, 2011, at 5:17 PM


They may have started out the day but Im not sure the mail carriers finished the day. I know that the mailman did not come down our street. I nor three of my neighbors got mail today.

-- Posted by momaster on Tue, Feb 1, 2011, at 5:13 PM

Speaking of who is working and who is not, the USPS is delivering mail today, as they always do. I sincerely apologize to all mail carriers, who have the job of delivering what is often mostly junk mail to us in this ugly weather. It's bad enough that it's junk mail - it's pretty awful that someone is risking his/her life to get it to us, especially since we are no happier to receive it than they are to be dragging it around.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, Feb 1, 2011, at 2:57 PM

Con Ag is gonna mess around and get somebody hurt.

This is ridiculous. Even my work sent us home for a two day shut down. Safety first people. Would you rather have frozen food or frozen people?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Feb 1, 2011, at 12:40 PM

I wonder if it was a flat roof.

-- Posted by Amy Crump on Tue, Feb 1, 2011, at 11:23 AM

Amy, it's the Hard Rock Casino. Here's the story of that partial roof collapse:


-- Posted by koeller77 on Tue, Feb 1, 2011, at 11:14 AM


-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Feb 1, 2011, at 11:10 AM

Heard a report that the roof of a Hard Rock Cafe in Oklahoma collapsed under the weight of all the snow.

-- Posted by Amy Crump on Tue, Feb 1, 2011, at 11:08 AM


If you haven't already, can you contact employers like cargill, con-ag etc. to see what their plans for the next few days are?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Feb 1, 2011, at 10:47 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
ConAgra reports there are no plans at the moment to reduce operations. Cargill officials said they may send workers home after noon.

It's a new month and a new forum!

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Tue, Feb 1, 2011, at 6:38 AM

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