Speak Out [religion] January 5 to January 31, 2011

Wednesday, January 5, 2011

This forum is for discussing religious issues. The same standards of behavior apply as are spelled out on our home page in the introduction to Speak Out.

Post a comment

View 69 comments
Note: The nature of the Internet makes it impractical for our staff to review every comment. Please note that those who post comments on this website may do so using a screen name, which may or may not reflect a website user's actual name. Readers should be careful not to assign comments to real people who may have names similar to screen names. Refrain from obscenity in your comments, and to keep discussions civil, don't say anything in a way your grandmother would be ashamed to read.
  • Time to reboot!

    -- Posted by Eric Crump on Wed, Jan 5, 2011, at 12:07 PM
  • "But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him."

    Hebrews 11:6

    -- Posted by zeke on Thu, Jan 6, 2011, at 10:48 AM
  • "Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see," (Heb. 11:1)

    Faith is only as good as the object in which it is placed.

    All the faith in the world in someone false won'thelp you.


    -- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jan 6, 2011, at 8:30 PM
  • rr3etc

    it is hard to believe that you are sniping at nothing more than a simple scripture quotation. sometimes it appears that the truth of the kingdom of god is wasted on "the church."



    -- Posted by zeke on Fri, Jan 7, 2011, at 11:20 AM
  • Zeke,

    Sorry if you thought I was sniping at your post I was simply adding to what you posted. There was no attempt to take away from it.

    -- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Jan 7, 2011, at 1:12 PM
  • rr3

    sorry - just seems to be a little too much of that going around - anytime someone posts something folks jump on it like the proverbial dog on a bone.



    -- Posted by zeke on Fri, Jan 7, 2011, at 1:17 PM
  • What is heresy?

    A heresy is a teaching that deviates from the truth of biblical revelation.

    Faith is not what saves, but faith in the true God is what saves.


    -- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 7:31 PM
  • Faith without works is empty.

    -- Posted by izaak on Mon, Jan 10, 2011, at 9:04 PM
  • Excellent song news I hadn't heard of him.

    -- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jan 12, 2011, at 9:02 PM
  • -- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Jan 13, 2011, at 11:06 PM
  • Interesting indeed wtf but how do they know they are 34,000 years old? Could they be 340,000 or maybe 34,167 years old? That raises the bigger question. When God created the earth he created a mature earth, man, animals a everything in it so on day one how old was everything? Mature trees were they one day old or 50 years old? Interesting!

    -- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Jan 14, 2011, at 6:41 AM
  • People of science search for the answers never claiming to have them all. The religious, on the other hand aleays have an answer for everything. As you type your rebuttal on the computer and send into cyberspace, remember you are doing so on a device brought to you by science.

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Jan 14, 2011, at 5:36 PM
  • Ookaaay!

    -- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Jan 14, 2011, at 9:08 PM
  • rr3, your definition of "heresy" is a little off the mark. The meaning of the word is not confined to biblical considerations. Note there is no reference to the Bible in any of these four excellent definitions from Webster's:

    1. Any opinion or doctrine at variance with the orthodox or accepted doctrine, especially of a church or religious system.

    2. The maintaining of such an opinion or doctrine.

    3. In the Roman Catholic Church, the willful and persistent rejection of any article of faith by a baptized member of the church.

    4. Any belief or theory that is strongly at variance with established beliefs, customs, etc.

    It follows, then, that one can have heretical beliefs about either conservative or liberal ideologies, or about political parties, or, in fact, about any system of belief at all. Annoying, isn't it, that a person can be a Muslim and a heretic at the same time - and nowhere is there a word about the Bible? You can also be a Baptist and a heretic or a heretic and a Republican or Democrat. Why, the possibilities are just endless, aren't they?

    -- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sat, Jan 15, 2011, at 9:07 AM
  • ceymore,

    All I said is that it was interesting.

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Jan 15, 2011, at 11:35 AM
  • KF I never said heresy is confined to biblical applications. As for the definition I could have looked at Webster's myself but since this is a religious blog I thought Mr. Slick's definition was applicable. You are correct anyone can be a heretic.

    -- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Jan 15, 2011, at 4:16 PM
  • Even a child is known by his actions,by whether his conduct is pure and right.

    ( Proverbs 20:11 *NIV )

    -- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Jan 16, 2011, at 9:20 AM
  • -- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Jan 17, 2011, at 8:21 AM
  • The bible thrived on human slaughter at the behest of "god" for even the smallest of infractions. Thousands upon thousands of men,wpmen and children. If any of that is true then tell me, where is the glory?

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Jan 17, 2011, at 2:49 PM
  • All you have to do is look around you wtf just look around you. To see God's glory though you have to be willing to see it. If you are not willing you won't see it. God uses the KISS principle. KEEP IT SUPER SIMPLE. Then you can see.

    -- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Jan 17, 2011, at 9:23 PM
  • A Loving God Would Not Send Billions of People to Hell, Would He?


    -- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Jan 17, 2011, at 9:41 PM
  • What's Wrong with the Democrats (and Republicans) and "The American Dream"


    I know the title says this is in the wrong speak out but it's not.

    -- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Jan 17, 2011, at 10:03 PM
  • Actually the KISS method is better known as "Keep it simple,stupid". But that's ok too. How about you? If you choose not to see the absolute and monumental absurdity of a man-made and horribly violent book sold for centuries as the snake-oil that is God's word, then you will not see it.

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Jan 17, 2011, at 11:00 PM
  • It's really sad that you think that wtf. Why do you read the bible? Is it solely for entertainment? I am just trying to understand why you think the way you do.

    -- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Jan 18, 2011, at 5:14 AM
  • I am thinking Albert Einstein was a great scientist, here is his thought on science...

    "It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure."

    "Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind."

    "God always takes the simplest way."

    I can think of no one more scientific than Einstein, and yet he believed Jehovah was his creator. Hmmm.......

    -- Posted by Who on Tue, Jan 18, 2011, at 11:27 AM
  • Who

    Excellent statement when reading about our great scientist most of them were Christian or held Christian beliefs.

    -- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Jan 18, 2011, at 12:11 PM
  • You must remember. I have never said or will I ever say there is no god. Why? Because I can no more prove there isn't a god then someone can prove there is.

    That doesn't mean however that the bible or any other religious doctrine isn't the biggest scam ever perpretrated on humankind. Violent, intolerant.....vengeful. No thanks.

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Jan 18, 2011, at 12:26 PM
  • nanadot

    I concur, Einstein was a Jew (hence, no reference to Christ)...escaped from a country that had raised a man up and worshipped him. When men are left to their own devices, they will perpetrate evil.

    As for my God, he is neither violent, vengeful or intolerant. I would ask anyone out there to find a single word spoken by Christ that could be said to be any of these things. Christ was the son of my God and said he came as a way to his Father, teaching from the Old Testament.

    -- Posted by Who on Tue, Jan 18, 2011, at 1:44 PM
  • In these scriptures Jesus and god were one and the same.

    John 1:1

    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    John 1:14

    And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us.

    John 8:58

    Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

    John 10:30-31

    I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

    John 10:38-39

    The Father is in me, and I in him. Therefore they sought again to take him.

    John 14:9

    He that hath seen me hath seen the Father.

    John 20:28

    And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.

    Acts 20:28

    Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

    Colossians 1:16

    For by him [Jesus] were all things created.

    Colossians 2:9

    For in him [Jesus] dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1 Timothy 3:16

    God was made manifest in the flesh.

    Titus 2:13

    Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.

    Philippians 2:6

    Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God.

    Hebrews 1:8

    But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

    Revelation 1:17

    Fear not; I am the first and the last.

    Revelation 22:13

    I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

    There is probably an equal amount that says he isn't. So? Which is? Was Jesus in fact god or not?

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Jan 18, 2011, at 1:55 PM
  • Wtf yes Jesus is fully God and he was fully man when he was on this earth.

    -- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Jan 18, 2011, at 2:59 PM
  • 19th chapter of Matthew, verses 16-17.

    "And behold, one came and said unto him: 'Good master, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?'

    And he [Jesus] said unto him, 'Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God:..."

    If Jesus was God, then why did Jesus say "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" How could he have uttered that sentence if he knew that it was His own plan to be sacrificed, and not sacrificing himself would provide Humankind with no possibility of salvation?

    More about Jesus not being God... What about when Jesus tried to get out of the crucifixion? He asked God (or Himself) in the Garden of Gethsemane: "Father, if it be possible to let this cup pass from me..." If he was God, and he knew everything, this just does not make any sense. He knew that his crucifixion was a necessity for the salvation of Mankind. Didn't he care anymore about his children?

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Jan 18, 2011, at 5:59 PM
  • Wtf

    It is hard to understand when Jesus was here on earth he was fully man and experienced everything that we experience pain, hunger even anger. He prayed to the God as an example to us he was the perfect example because he was sinless. God gave his begotten son to die for us because of his love for us not because he had to. If we were facing crucifixion wouldn't we want to get out of it? As man we wouldn't want to endure the pain. Jesus was the perfect sacrifice so we can now live under the new covenant. Now we can repent and pray for forgiveness of our sins instead of offering a live sacrifice.

    -- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Jan 18, 2011, at 8:11 PM
  • Why woud Jesus pray to a god if he was infact god, as you stated yourself?

    "Wtf yes Jesus is fully God and he was fully man when he was on this earth."

    So Jesus is fully god...except when he is a man?

    Then he just goes back to being "fully god"? Who fills in for the Jesus the "fully god" when Jesus is just a man on earth? Were we godless? How did we survive without a god to look over us for that period of time?

    Were there two gods? That isn't possible is it? Isn't even thinking that criminal enough to get one tormented for all eternity?

    If Jesus is fully god, as you stated, why would he pray to himself? What was he praying for and why didn't he as "fully god" just make it happen?

    Was he asking another god?

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Jan 18, 2011, at 10:55 PM
  • Wtf I told you it was hard to understand, Jesus while being fully man was fully God. He didn't change from one to the other. The triune God is not limited to physical laws that we know, that is what makes it hard for us to grasp. That's why we have to have faith that God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are what they are and are one and the same. Jesus was around at the beginning before the time of creation as was the Holy Spirit. Physically God cannot be omnipresent but he is. Can we fully understand that? Yes with faith.

    -- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jan 19, 2011, at 5:33 AM
  • Romans 1:17, For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written:"The righteous will live by faith."

    -- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jan 19, 2011, at 5:42 AM
  • Wtf you asked a question and I answered it but it sounds like you didn't like my answer. You are asking some good questions but don't condemn the person answering just because you don't like the answer. I just pray God will put someone in your path that can answer your questions to your satisfaction.

    -- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jan 19, 2011, at 6:40 AM
  • I guess Eric didn't like my answer.

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Jan 19, 2011, at 7:12 AM
  • Faith to believe in fairy tales is not necessarily a good thing. What about those who have faith in a religion that differs from your own. Are they any less right or any less wrong?

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Jan 19, 2011, at 7:19 AM
  • This is a yet another great example of why I have nothing to do with organized religion.


    -- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Jan 19, 2011, at 7:35 AM
  • Wtf I believe the bible to be the inerrent inspired word of God. You believe it to be a fairy tale. Who is right? I would say you believe you are and I believe I am. So who is right? There evidently has not been a point in your life where God has convicted you to believe or you refuse to believe, I don't know your heart only God does.

    As for what the Alabama governor said in his speech was true in the context of Christianity. Probably something he should have kept to himself because now he has Christian branded on his forehead and will be attacked for proclaiming his belief. We are all children of God and are brothers and sisters in Christ when we become believers. If you don't believe or be born again we won't be able to spend eternity together.

    Look what happened to Jesus, many knew who he was and refused to believe it.

    -- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jan 19, 2011, at 12:37 PM
  • Nana we have the book with all the answers and I have read the end of it and we win.

    -- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jan 19, 2011, at 12:38 PM
  • "Nana we have the book with all the answers"

    Thanks for that r3yvo, that says everything I ever need to know about christians.

    As far as christians being attacked I don't agree. People of all stripes, non-religious or even of other faiths have grown tired of the self-induced superiority complex generated by the christians since the first day it was made up.

    People are now starting to speak out. No one is running you out of your church, removing your tax exempt status or even telling you who you can marry for that matter. They are,however, speaking out after having grown tired of the christian boot on their necks for the past 2000 years.

    If you feel that people speaking out is an "attack" then maybe you sould look at how words of religious intolerance have felt like an attack to others.

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Jan 19, 2011, at 1:18 PM
  • Wtf you wouldn't consider any of your verbage an attack? What is your purpose posting on a religious blog? Good intent? As for that saying everything if that was the case you would understand and believe. You either refuse or don't want to believe. Nothing I can do about that and I won't have to suffer the consequence. If you were so sure about your nonbelief you wouldn't question my belief.

    -- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jan 19, 2011, at 2:30 PM
  • Nana Christianity is not the only game in the universe but we serve the only true God anything else pales in comparison. We serve a living God the others are dead.

    -- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jan 19, 2011, at 2:33 PM
  • It is a religious blog. It doesn't state pro-religion comments only. My intent? My intent is merely to keep the religious in check. To let them know that they are free to believe whatever they choose but that is where it ends.

    Those who differ in opinon will no longer remain silent.

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Jan 19, 2011, at 2:57 PM
  • Nana and wtf I welcome the dialogue from anyone with any point of view but it seems the very thing you accuse us Christians of you are guilty of yourself. That was the only point I was making.

    I think you know why I believe in God, why do you not?

    -- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jan 19, 2011, at 3:17 PM
  • Wtf what qualifies you as the gatekeeper to keep religion in check? Just askin'

    -- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jan 19, 2011, at 3:18 PM


    Nana you say you believe in a universal intelligence how would you describe it?

    -- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jan 19, 2011, at 5:23 PM
  • rr3yvo,

    What qualifies the religious, or more specifically the christians, to be the gate keepers for everyone else? I see it everyday even in my own family. They can't even tolerate those of the same religion from a different church.

    That's been my life experience. That's what qualifies me, what qualifies you to speak?

    You certainly don't like it when the shoe is one the other foot do you?

    I have never said there was no god. Do I believe in god? I honestly don't know and I am willing to admit that. What I don't believe is the massive load of nonsense that has been perpetrated upon mankind up until now. What I don't believe is the man-made superstition and conjecture, manufactured to control the ignorant masses through power and wealth.

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Jan 19, 2011, at 5:54 PM
  • Sooooooory Nana!!!!!!!!!

    -- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jan 20, 2011, at 5:36 AM
  • Good wtf I have friends, family and employees that are not Christian. Do I get along with them? Sure. Anyone that is around me very long will know what I believe because it seems to always come up. Do I shove it down their throats? No. I believe that a Christian is someone that has accepted Jesus as their personal Lord and Saviour.

    John 14:6 (NAS)

    Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.


    I also believe that the bible is the inspired inerrant word of God. It has not changed in over 2000 years. The following link list questions that are asked about the bible and each is a link to an answer. You might look through the questions there and you may or may not see something of interest.


    Those two things I won't budge on now anything else is open for debate because we can read the same bible passage and get different things from it. Does it mean one of us is wrong? Not always. The bible means what it says but has hundreds of applications for one's life depending on the individual.

    -- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jan 20, 2011, at 5:41 AM
  • You know Nana sometimes the attitude conveyed in your post causes me to dismiss a lot that you say. I know if you are unsure of your belief you may not want to go over it again. Jesus said we are to be witness that means we tell our story over and over as a witness for others. I am sure of my salvation and of an eternal home in heaven when I leave this earth. Does your belief assure you of eternal life? Heaven? Something to think about.

    -- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jan 20, 2011, at 5:46 AM
  • See what I mean!

    -- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jan 20, 2011, at 11:44 AM
  • I can do that Nana but if I think you are wrong I will point it out and you should do the same. Just because I think you are wrong or you think I am wrong shouldn't stop the discussion from any topic. I'm not the one complaining.

    -- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jan 20, 2011, at 3:03 PM
  • Pick one Nana and run with it.

    -- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jan 20, 2011, at 10:35 PM
  • Nanadot,

    Because then there would be no need for the church and the church don't like that.

    -- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Jan 22, 2011, at 1:04 PM
  • Nana some good thoughts in regards to our soul being eternal. I think we have a soul and it is eternal but where we spend eternity is dependent on how we live our life on this earth. Where did our soul come from or originate? Does everybody have one? I don't think our souls will live in eternity at random but there will be order not chaos. If our souls live in eternity how can the universe contain us? Will we still be contained by space and time? Or the physical laws of the universe?

    -- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Jan 22, 2011, at 4:00 PM
  • Anything that exist in our universe could not have created it. Could it? As three dimensional beings we cannot visualize anything existing outside of that. I think that is the reason we can't see God unless he makes himself visible in our three dimensional world.

    The Extradimensional Nature of God


    -- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Jan 22, 2011, at 5:44 PM
  • If this "spark" of eternal just is then how do we know it's eternal? Would that be like believing life formed from something non-living? God when speaking to Moses said "I am who I am" and Jesus refered to himself as 'I am' relating to the Father and Son. Jesus said "Before Abraham was, I am." I believe that the only way we can be eternal is because of God.


    -- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Jan 24, 2011, at 1:52 PM
  • Eternity is something our finite minds cannot totally comprehend. We get bored in the short time we are here on earth how would we spend our time in eternity? I believe I serve an eternal God that always was and always will be. Can I totally understand that? No. Are we supposed to? I don't think so. God has many names can others be worshiping the same God? I think they can.

    -- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Jan 25, 2011, at 9:35 PM
  • -- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Jan 25, 2011, at 9:58 PM
  • I think that eternity will be in heaven or hell our choice. We can't wrap our infinite mind around what it will truly be like. I don't think we will be contained by space and time. In heaven we will not know boredom, sadness, sorrow, or sin. We will be Christ-like in our nature. In hell we will know boredom, sadness, sorrow, and sin. We will be in eternal torment. Just my thoughts on what our life will be like when this life is over.

    -- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jan 26, 2011, at 5:08 AM
  • On this earth we are always looking for something to fill a void in our lives. That could be Jesus, Buddah, or money, career even material possessions. But that void can only be filled with Jesus. Just a thought.

    -- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jan 26, 2011, at 5:38 AM
  • That should be (finite) mind.

    -- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jan 26, 2011, at 7:00 AM
  • He who heeds the word wisely will find good, and whoever trusts in the Lord, happy is he.

    ( Proverbs 16:20 NKJV )

    -- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jan 27, 2011, at 6:12 AM
  • Really!!!

    -- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Jan 28, 2011, at 6:56 AM
  • And Jesus said, "I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

    ( Matthew 18:3 *NIV )



    -- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Jan 29, 2011, at 8:11 PM
  • Regarding Voltaire's declaration ""God is a comedian, playing to an audience too afraid to laugh." I would (risking impertinence) add, "or too afraid not to laugh." I can't ignore that there is dichotomy to some degree, in every group. It also appears to me that one, or the other of those fearful factions would be percieved as more pleasant, positive, and appealing. But then,that laughter might be heard as hysterical laughter, which annoys the previous point.

    Some though, would dispute my point.

    Signed: Wacky Philosopher

    -- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Jan 29, 2011, at 11:26 PM
  • Creationism Still Advocated in H.S. Biology Classes, Study Finds


    -- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Jan 30, 2011, at 8:35 AM
Respond to this story

Posting a comment requires free registration: