[Masthead] Fog ~ 62°F  
Dense Fog Advisory
Thursday, Sep. 18, 2014

Speak Out January 1 to January 31, 2011

Friday, December 31, 2010

The Marshall Democrat-News invites readers to share their views and questions on any issue. Open discussions are often useful and enlightening. Criticism is acceptable as an important part of public conversations, but we expect everyone to treat others with respect. Experience suggests it is best not to post comments while angry. We reserve the right to delete comments that we think include personal attacks, are disrespectful, threatening, obscene or in other ways objectionable. Anyone who repeatedly violates this policy will be banned from participating in our forums.

Past Speak Out conversations


Comments
Note: The nature of the Internet makes it impractical for our staff to review every comment. If you feel that a comment is offensive, please Login or Create an account first, and then you will be able to flag a comment as objectionable. Please also note that those who post comments on marshallnews.com may do so using a screen name, which may or may not reflect a website user's actual name. Readers should be careful not to assign comments to real people who may have names similar to screen names. Refrain from obscenity in your comments, and to keep discussions civil, don't say anything in a way your grandmother would be ashamed to read.

Eric,

Thanks for the photos of Marshall's Winter Wonderland. Especially loved Jim the Wonder Dog's "white fur" coat! Do hope you were dressed for the weather.

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Mon, Jan 31, 2011, at 10:22 PM

Just for fun: Go now to the Agriculture Page (just click the Agriculture tab above) and make your snowfall predictions!!

-- Posted by Marcia Gorrell on Mon, Jan 31, 2011, at 6:56 PM

upsedaisy as I am aware that you are a poetry lover I thank you for the compliment.

Actually, as word, rhyme, flow, nuance, and all that other stuff swirled in my head, then caused words to begin to appear on the screen, I thought of you. I realize that is not a full blown dedication LOL, but hey thanks, I appreciate you, and hope all is well.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Jan 31, 2011, at 10:38 AM

This would be a great time to check with friends and neighbors who are unable or unwilling to drive in ugly conditions, to ask if they need any groceries or if they need assistance obtaining a prescription that might run out in the next few days.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Mon, Jan 31, 2011, at 9:20 AM

OKR,

Excellent poem.

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Sun, Jan 30, 2011, at 11:29 PM

if you all could get the store rush out of the way tonight, then they would be empty for me when I get home and have to run around tomorrow after it ices... lol

Be safe and go do some donuts in the snow!!!!!

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Jan 30, 2011, at 8:37 PM

Regarding the grear Snow King controversy, i.e. to throne or dethrone:

If all the problems that confront us

would so simply melt away,

like offensive snowmen that had their day,

leaving carrots, twigs, or lumps of coal,

our problems would not take so great a toll.

Some would eat the carrot (those who starve)

Some would take the twigs (those who carve)

Some as deserved would get season's due.

Just lumps of coal for those of you.

--

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jan 30, 2011, at 1:38 AM

Word on the Street:

Wikileaks is currently releasing information from secret Egyptian Government files which was given to them.

Just wait till you see what our Egyptian buddies have been up to -- and which American officials are in kahoots with them.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/01/leake...

Includes direct links to the leaked Egyptian cables.

It looks like a true Peoples' Revolution is underway in the Middle East now. I wish the Egyptian People good luck in their struggle for Democracy and economic equality.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jan 28, 2011, at 4:49 PM

We think gasoline is high, watch the brewing fire storm in Egypt and hold on. This is a World mess about to explode...stay tuned..

-- Posted by Marshall Man on Fri, Jan 28, 2011, at 1:32 PM

Cheetah - I'll post it to the "Share a Recipe" section tomorrow, promise!

-- Posted by koeller77 on Fri, Jan 28, 2011, at 12:53 PM

I vote for rhubarb upside-down cake!!! With fresh whipped cream!

Let's see...it's January. Still have February, March, April...can't pick until May. I was always told by my grandparents that you can only pick rhubarb in months that don't have the letter "r".

-- Posted by koeller77 on Fri, Jan 28, 2011, at 11:38 AM

Rhubarb/Strawberry pie made with produce fresh from the garden now you're talkin'

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Jan 28, 2011, at 11:20 AM

I too am a member of the "We Love Rhubarb Pie" Club.

I wish someone would teach the Aussies how to make it lol lol lol...

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jan 28, 2011, at 8:31 AM

Red Dog I completely agree

-- Posted by buttons on Fri, Jan 28, 2011, at 8:23 AM

that's the point

-- Posted by red dog on Fri, Jan 28, 2011, at 7:31 AM

Who cares about the rhubarb!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-- Posted by walkingblind on Fri, Jan 28, 2011, at 7:29 AM

Will all this snow hurt the ruhbarb?

-- Posted by red dog on Fri, Jan 28, 2011, at 7:15 AM

nanadot... I find a lot of the practices of huge businesses to have potential bad effects on people. But as to the whole issue of big corporations sending their money and jobs overseas and blaming big business for it is simply silly.

This issue is exactly like the situation we have with state tax issues within our nation. Look at Illinois and California, to name two, who are having horrible problems with their budgets due to irresponsible BIG SPENDING and unacountability to reality of what happens when you spend too much and dont plan for the rainy day (year or decade) To compensate for spending too much Illinois raised their tax rate by 61% or so recently. What do you think will happen to a lot of businesses and people with money? Just as is happening in NY and NYC and California.. people with the businesses and the money to invest or to purchase goods and services are leaving those states and moving to states with business and investor friendly tax rates policies in place. And it is not because they are evil and dont care about helping the poor or other reasons you designate for them it is because they have to maintain the best possible situations for their business so they can provide for their families and their employees and to do this they have to be as competitive with the WHOLE WORLD as they can be. Than means being able to compete with nations who pay their people pennies a day or hour or week. They have to compete with nations that have rules and laws and tariffs that prevent our goods and services from being competitive with theirs.

IT is a TON more complicated than just sitting back and seeing a person or a corporation that is rich and then seeing them move money off shore or their jobs and even business headquarters offshore and then labeling them evil or uncaring or other much worse names... lol

-- Posted by mrxray on Fri, Jan 28, 2011, at 7:14 AM

Ray,

...I also found your statement regarding Australia being "depressed" both amusing and unqualified...given the facts...

"New Australian economic boom could last for years"

http://www.perthnow.com.au/business/news...

"Australian economy to boom again this decade"

http://dynamicbusiness.com.au/articles/a...

http://www.aigroup.com.au/portal/binary/...

"United Nations names Australia as the second best place in the world to live"

November 5, 2010

http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-news...

"Top 10 Countries to Live in 2010"

"#2. Australia"

http://www.popularsomething.com/2010/01/...

But let's keep the focus on what you said earlier. We can discuss Nandot's statement after we resolve this issue of your clearly subjective and faulty economic analysis. I was not concerned with anything other than seeing you qualify your cleary errant and unqualified thesis...which you still have yet to do.

In addition, I am still waiting for you to show me where Dr. Krugman's economic analysis of the factual data is all wrong...as you inferred in your statement.

Get that all cleared up and then we can discuss Nan's posting -- one thing at a time mate.

Oh one last thing Ray, yeah Australia is on the other side of the World but don't worry we have Television, Telephone, and Telegraph and all the news somehow manages to make its way all the way down here lol lol lol....

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jan 28, 2011, at 7:08 AM

Nanadot.. you are correct about the name of the issue...prevailing wage but YOU failed to answer my question. YES the employer could have pocketed the difference (illegal) and this was totally NOT my point. So I ask again... exactly HOW does forcing prevailing wage (a dollar amount for wages set by UNION demands and NOT real wages in any specific locale. This arbitrary and artificial dollar figure used for the prevailing wage was not based on reality for all locales and was used based off the desires of the Unions to be able to force all contractors to pay the same wages as the Unions were demanding and then because it was law for government contracts to pay this artificially inflated wage, it basically forced small and local businesses to be unable to retain the advantage they had by being local with lower costs like wages and distance to transport supplies.

IF I can provide a service, meet the specs for the job and pay my people less because they live in a cheaper place to live and are willing to work for wages that are lower than UNION organizations how does this help the economy since all jobs costs ALOT more to finish which costs the tax payers MORE money and therefore forces the government to tax the tax payer more ONLY because the Unions found a way to manipulate things. Why do you think that local contractors are not awarded many DOT jobs?

-- Posted by mrxray on Fri, Jan 28, 2011, at 7:02 AM

"Also Ray, can you please qualify your statement regarding Nobel Economic Peace Prize Laureate, Dr. Paul Krugman?"

Youbetcha!

http://tinyurl.com/4bsza27

"'Whenever Democrats were in charge he thinks it was a golden age,'" observes William Anderson, a professor of economics at economics at Frostburg State University. "[Economists are] supposed to provide dispassionate analysis. What we get from Krugman is partisan shilling."

In January 2008, economist Daniel Stein published a comprehensive critique of Krugman based on an analysis of his columns from 1997 to 2006. He found that Krugman, despite his professed admiration of the free-market, routinely favors government intervention and increased regulation. Aside from a single column opposing rent-control and agricultural subsidies, Krugman's support for the free market was nowhere in evidence. Beyond that, Klein found that Krugman now approached economics through a "liberal versus conservative" mentality, and there was no doubt about where Krugman's allegiances lay."

-- Posted by Ray on Fri, Jan 28, 2011, at 6:07 AM

"Your use of yourself as a statistical model which you infer accurately reflects the trend of real average historical income over the last 30 years is not sufficient for that purpose."

You are wrong on all counts news across. And that's quite a mouth full, considering Nanodot offered no stats either, just anecdotes, but you didn't mention that. How convenient of you and also a double standard. My intent in offering my own example was to show what individual initiative could do, against the odds. As far as incomes, certainly where I am, what I said holds true. I'm not sure what the trend was for you in apparently far away and depressed Australia, and where ever Nanodot is too.

I suggest, Nanodot, P.K., you, and all others of your political ilk don't bother trying to push political ideology as statistical facts. I'm not buying them. In academia it's known as advocacy research, aka, academic fraud. In journalism it's simply propaganda. As far as the discredited Noble prize, now that's become a real politicized joke of late and has about as little significance as a prize you'd find in a box of Cracker Jacks, IMO.

Sorry, I'm probably going to make this my last post for a while. I don't have time to single handedly refute the posts of a team of anti-Capitalist, anti-corporate, pro big government, pro tax and spend ideologues.

-- Posted by Ray on Fri, Jan 28, 2011, at 5:49 AM

Ray

Your use of yourself as a statistical model which you infer accurately reflects the trend of real average historical income over the last 30 years is not sufficient for that purpose.

A statistic of 1 is not a statistic. It is a population and thus can only reflect its population and its population only -- in other words Ray, your personal experiences may or may not reflect the experiences of others but we have no other source for that short of your word for it. Such a subjectively egocentric approach to economic analysis tells us nothing about the National average trend of real income over the last 30 years, 20 years, 10 years, 5 years, or even 1 year. It only reflects your personal experience and nothing more and since such is apparently based in nominal dollars and not effective dollars, even that may not be accurate.

I recommend you stick with standard quantitative methods and objectively gathered data when attempting to assess such things as economic trends.

Also Ray, can you please qualify your statement regarding Nobel Economic Peace Prize Laureate, Dr. Paul Krugman? After all his list of credentials in the field of Economics are, to say the least, impeccable. There is no question as to the qualification of his professional economic opinion -- he is one of the top, leading professors of economics in the World and he provides substantial qualification of his professional opinion in the form of objectively gathered statistical data from neutral sources.

So please cite those specific things that you and and Dr. Krugman disagree on, present your data, and please cite your sources so we can check them for qualification.

Otherwise your thesis remains unverified and unverifiable.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jan 28, 2011, at 3:49 AM

"...minimum wage is about 1/2 of what it actually costs to live in most areas. If a single parent is working two jobs, who's raising the kids? And how much goes to child-care?"

Bad career or life planning, or lack of initiative, on the part of people is not the fault of, or the problem of, the government, or me. Unfortunately, some people who follow a socialist model have a skewed perception that government has an obligation to provide "happiness," while the Constitution only says "the pursuit of happiness" is a right. Our schools previously taught students self discipline and how to take responsibility for themselves, their lives. Under the socialist restructuring of many curriculums, public education now fails to emphasize that as before, and thereby has changed for the worse. Our laws guarantee equal opportunity, but socialists want to change that to mean equal outcome, no matter how little some people choose to work, or study to improve themselves. Sorry, I adamantly oppose paying the way for the people who don't make the effort and I don't believe the government should either.

-- Posted by Ray on Fri, Jan 28, 2011, at 3:25 AM

"And Ray, you neglected to mention..."

That's right, I disagree with those opinions and think their basic economic philosophies lack credibility. And I would have completely dismissed most everything coming from Krugman at the N.T Times too - for the same reason. His opinions, grounded in his political model(s), have zero credibility, in my opinion. But do tell me Nanodot, when was the last time you ever said anything good about conservatives, Capitalism, or large corporations? You appear to want to hold me to a standard, or standards, you don't even follow yourself.

"Ray - I think you are wrong, and that you are misrepresenting history. Ever since Reagan busted the unions in the 80's, American wages have done DOWN. Production is up, profits are up, but American workers are getting less and working more."

Sorry Nanodot, you're wrong again- from my experience. In my roughly thirty year career, since Reagan took office, I've seen nothing but steady salary increases - - - until Obama came along. But then I've never waited for someone to hand it to me on a government silver platter. I've worked hard for it.

-- Posted by Ray on Fri, Jan 28, 2011, at 3:05 AM

This article cites a "libertarian" assessment on a potential minimum wage increase. Surprise, surprise, many actions often have consequences, aka "causality," aka "cause - effect."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16229175/ns/...

"There is certainly a case to be made that the added cost of a higher minimum wage -- by itself -- could wipe out some marginally profitable businesses and eliminate the jobs they provide. The economics have been spelled out clearly by think tanks like the Cato Institute.

"If the government coercively raises the price of some good (such as labor) above its market value, the demand for that good will fall, and some of the supply will become 'disemployed,'" according to a study by the libertarian group. "Unfortunately, in the case of minimum wages, the disemployed goods are human beings.'"

-- Posted by Ray on Fri, Jan 28, 2011, at 1:00 AM

I am considering making a contribution to the Make a Wish Foundation. Is there anyone here who has had any experience with them? From what I read online, they're a good organization but I would still like to hear from someone who has some knowledge or experience. Thanks.

-- Posted by AnneD on Thu, Jan 27, 2011, at 4:20 PM

Nanodot said: "rr3 - No body said anything about "sucking on the government teat" except you. I asked a fair question regarding wages paid by private enterprise - Do conservative support getting rid of the minimum wage so EVERYone can make as little as 'illegals'?"

When far left ideologues, under Obama, finish turning American into a welfare state, American's salaries will be worth less than an "illegals" in actual purchasing power. Apparently, his plans support Americans making less than an illegal. It's Obama's administration that's making all the talk (and action) about spreading the wealth around, following the old Karl Marx adage, "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need (or needs)." Of course it's Obama and his far left ideologues who determine everyone's needs and abilities with a concurrent loss in liberties.

The last time I checked conservatives still supported the American dream, where citizens were free to labor under equal opportunity to achieve as much as they are willing to work for.

-- Posted by Ray on Thu, Jan 27, 2011, at 2:06 PM

Nanodot said: "One of the conservative mantras is "close our borders - illegals take our jobs!"

Nanodot does not speak "the whole truth," while she disingenuously attacks "conservatives!"

There's a lot more regarding the issue of border security than she covers in her slamming of valid conservatives and their concerns.

What about border security to keep terrorists out (see today's news below)?

What about rampant drug smuggling into the U.S. along our southern border (see today's news below)?

What about massive use of government health care facilities by illegals in sanctuary cities like L.A. - at taxpayers expense?

What about use of government schools by children of illegals at taxpayers expense?

"A book celebrating suicide bombers has been found in the Arizona desert just north of the U.S.- Mexican border, authorities tell Fox News."

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/01/27/ira...

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/pot-firi...

"HERMOSILLO, Mexico (AP) -- Drug smugglers trying to get marijuana across the Arizona-Mexico border apparently are trying a new approach -- a catapult."

-- Posted by Ray on Thu, Jan 27, 2011, at 1:53 PM

Nana I guess it depends if you want to work or suck on the government teat. Won't illegals always work for less in an attempt to not get deported? Not that they really have to worry about that anyway.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jan 27, 2011, at 12:28 PM

nandot...you bash big businesses alot. I just have a question.

Here is example for context: I worked for a local construction company when I was in my early 20s. (Not Marshall) and I made about 14-15 buck an hour to set concrete forms and laborer duties as a small business we all did everything. However, when the boss bid on a DOT project he was forced to pay us 25-27 bucks an hour for the concrete work and about 20 bucks an hour for the laborer work. The reason for the different pay? UNION influence forcing the government to get bids ONLY at UNION wages. Exactly how does this benefit the consumer or the little guy?

If a local company can do the work and do it abiding by the specs and can do it for lower wages, and when the government forces companies to bid it at higher wages are we not harming the economy, the local business owner and the working people as a whole? Are we not harming the poor by artificially inflating the cost of any project which raises the rates of other things down the chain?

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Jan 27, 2011, at 10:57 AM

congrats. I am not the only one who wants his money to bounce around this country for a while untill the govt sends it over seas.

I am with ya and I`ll be looking for that made in the US label, hope you guys are too.

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Thu, Jan 27, 2011, at 8:42 AM

nandot,ray,

I have been concerned about this issue for a while now. and I mean no offense but what was the last product you bought that had that sticker we used to look for on everything? you know the one that says MADE IN AMERICA? I honestly couldn`t tell ya the last time I saw one.

I think the last two american made things I picked up were my breakfast and the ~10% ethanol in my gas tank this am.

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Wed, Jan 26, 2011, at 2:51 PM

Nanodot said: "'think of all the purchases of Chinese goods that Americans are making" - WE can change THAT... quit buying it."

That's not very practical, considering how American companies have already been priced out of the market and American consumers have little or no other options, than to buy Chinese. The time is way past due to oppose the greed of America's union leaders, who are driving up the cost of American labor, and products, making American products uncompetitive in the world (and American) market. Maybe the union leaders and the regulatory agencies under Obama should demand that China compete on the same terms and rules that American companies are subjected to - the terms and rules that are in place after the demands of greedy union leaders and endlessly, business regulating, governmental agencies are instituted.

Greedy American union leaders and regulatory agencies under Obama should make vigorous efforts to go to China, IMO, to do there, what they do in America. I'd love to see our American union leaders in Chinese coal mines, agitating for work conditions and pay equal to America's. And where is the vociferousness of Obama administration regulatory agencies (if they really care about climate change and our economy), complaining about the massive greenhouse gases being emitted by China's enormous coal fired power plants? Chinese coal fired plants don't have emission controls anywhere near America's plants. It appears Obama's mouth was in his pocket about that (and other things mentioned here), at his recent meeting with Chinese President Hu Jintao. Maybe the Obama administration was too busy listening to that Chinese propagandist who played music referring to the United States as "jackals."

http://tinyurl.com/6xg8nxr

"The "jackal" in the song is the United States. "The song Lang Lang played describes how beautiful China is and then near the end has this verse, "When friends are here, there is fine wine /But if the jackal comes /What greets it is the hunting rifle." The "jackal" in the song is the United States."

-- Posted by Ray on Wed, Jan 26, 2011, at 1:46 PM

About half of the budget deficit is actually due to 2 wars and tax cuts for the last 10 years as this has cost us several trillion dollars already and counting.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Wed, Jan 26, 2011, at 6:15 AM

Nanodot, you are wrong. Under rules for quoting, you should have said "the source you quoted," or some such, instead of quoting me directly as saying "owning." In Journalism, it's called attribution.

And you are wrong about the amount of American wealth China is acquiring. Watch that Chinese professor again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTSQozWP-...

Now in addition to all that American debt that China holds, think of all the purchases of Chinese goods that Americans are making.

Go to the Port of Los Angeles down in the Long Beach/San Pedro area if you get a chance and watch all the ships coming in from China. Just get on the 110 Fwy and go south. The Fwy ends in the POLA.

The trailer portion of Tractor/trailer rigs come in like this on ship after ship, day after day, month after month, year after year.

http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/200532...

Forty years ago there was only a trickle of the incoming cargo that's there now. A major part of that Port used to be the Long Beach Naval Base and shipyard, but it's completely gone - shut down.

Now go to your local area stores and see how many items you can find that say "Made in China." Now realize you are experiencing a microcosm of what is happening all across America, as Americans purchase Chinese goods and transfer there wealth to China.

http://useconomy.about.com/od/tradepolic...

"In 2010 (most recent annual statistics), the U.S. trade deficit with China was $252 billion. This was down slightly from the record of $268 billion set in 2008, the largest in the world between any two countries. The deficit means that the U.S. exported $82 billion in goods and services to China (double its 2005 exports), while it imported over $334 billion (second only to 2006 levels)."

Yes, China doesn't own America completely - not yet. But it's completely accurate to say that they are in the process of buying America, and that we are in the process of selling America. Capisce?

-- Posted by Ray on Wed, Jan 26, 2011, at 3:53 AM

Nanodot said: "Ray - your comments about the Chinese 'owning' us is just scare-talk... the Chinese only own something like 7.5% of total US debt. The majority of US debt is owned by We the people."

You're being disingenuous. You quote me as having used the term "owning," but I did not, then you falsely accuse me of "scare talk." Such dishonesty underscores your lack of credibility. You should try harder to keep track of who your name-calling.

-- Posted by Ray on Wed, Jan 26, 2011, at 1:59 AM

http://tinyurl.com/2ehqvqw

"Mr. Johnson, a former chief economist for the International Monetary Fund, estimated that China owns about $1 trillion in U.S. Treasury securities, or nearly half the $2.37 trillion stock of Treasury debt held by "foreign official" owners.

The amount of U.S. debt held by China is even higher than that, said Eswar Prasad, an economist at Cornell University."

"...China probably holds about $1.7 trillion in U.S. government debt. "

-- Posted by Ray on Wed, Jan 26, 2011, at 1:48 AM

Upse daisy, good to hear from you.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jan 26, 2011, at 1:01 AM

John Q.

Weren't we all going to be a bit more civil w/our words? Eric turned the page on the previous dialogue on December 31st. Allowing this to continue until January 31st will allow us to accurately measure the same time period. The greater volume probably reflects bad weather which keeps people at home.

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Tue, Jan 25, 2011, at 9:06 PM

Here in America we have it great! We make our comments known without any fear of incrementation.

Some comments seem to have a little more substance to them than others. Remember your history? In some ancient cultures senators had to wear a noose around their neck, when they brought up an issue they had to both identify the problem and also present their ideas or opinion. Their speeches were voted on by either being allowed to remove the noose or having it used to veto their idea.

-- Posted by John Q. on Tue, Jan 25, 2011, at 9:05 PM

Hey Eric, how many responses on this blog 500? Get with it!

-- Posted by John Q. on Tue, Jan 25, 2011, at 8:52 PM

Yeah Ray,

You're right . Let's nuke'm till they glow and shoot'em in the dark,right?

Every problem we have and will ever have is all Obama's fault,right?. Maybe we need "unCurious George" back. I'm sure he would get us right back on track don't you?

While Obama has been less than perfect, how many of the wealthy and corporations have bought and paid for larger tax loopholes time and time again since you were in kneesox? Didn't the GOP just fight toothe and nail for that recently? Where does that tax burden go?

I also think you fail to realize the huge burden he inherited when he took office. The problems weren't fixed overnight but we are headed in the right direction. I give our president kudos for that. What will you do when YOU are president? What will you do to fix all of our problems in two years? I'd like to know.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Jan 25, 2011, at 4:36 PM

Ray,

Your concern about China is valid, but your connection is not. The recent tax cut bill is an example of this as this bill required us to increase our Federal debt to China and Russia which the President signed into law. Most of those at MSNBC were against this bill, so actually our President and those at MSNBC were actually on separate sides of this issue as the Presidents views were actually aligned with those at Fox news on this one.

If you really want to place blame on the debt owed to foreign countries we should blame Obama and Bush for both signing tax cut bills while 2 wars are going on that is what has used our surplus and turned it into a deficit

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Jan 25, 2011, at 3:57 PM

Please respond to my posts in Chinese, because that's who'll be buying our debt to fund all the social "investments," Obama is planning (transfer of wealth). Chinese is what future generations of American children will be speaking (one way or another) as they are working, struggling to pay off the huge debts this wastefully spending president is selling out to. I hope factually challenged Obama and MSNBC supporters "wise up" before we see China's stealth jets flying over the Rose Parade some years from now. We are witnesses a progressive weakening of America every day Obama is in office.

-- Posted by Ray on Tue, Jan 25, 2011, at 2:47 PM

Amen, dadofmany.

I say we blame Obama for this lack of snow removal, also.

-- Posted by Smart Dog on Tue, Jan 25, 2011, at 2:16 PM

So here is my concern.......I would like to know why the *new edition* on the south end of town has had clear streets through all of this snow (it is scraped to the pavement, and has been even through the worst part of the snow), and the citizens on the north end have had horrible road conditions? We all pay taxes, yes theirs may be higher BUT you have to remember, they have been paying taxes for only a few years and the north end has been paying taxes for 30+ years so they pay the city salary just like the south end! Yet they make more money, have fancy cars, and gardeners, so they are catered to? I just don't find it right. So all I am saying is, we are all equal! Why do they get it better because in the long run like I mentioned above, yes their taxes are higher, but they chose to live there and pay those taxes the north end has paid the city salary for years and once again have horrible road conditions? I know the excuses will pile in about, how they streets are smother thus easier to scrape- my come back to that is well maybe the city should work on the north ends roads and they will be easier to scrape because they will be more level also. Once again, the north end also pays for the salt, sand, and scraping the south end receives so shouldn't the north end get some of it or is it reserved for just the south?

-- Posted by dadofmany on Tue, Jan 25, 2011, at 2:09 PM

Ray,

If your in the middle or working classes you probably arent in a postition to go and buy any new vehicles as average middle and lower class wages have been dropping for sometime now while cost of living has increased.

What we are experiencing now is a trend towards social imperialism not socialism where the rich have more power and money than past years and the average person has less and less influence.

When the middle class decides to unify then and only then will there be a push towards socialism, but the people will need someone with power to bring about this action. This President has catered to corporate america by giving tax cuts to the rich and the Surpreme court ruling giving Coorparations more influence over elections are testimony towards social imperialism not Socialism.

The spokespeople for corporate America wish to scare the public from a shift towards a better economic model as this would shift the wealth back to the people where it belongs.

-- Posted by Back in the day on Tue, Jan 25, 2011, at 1:08 PM

Ray,

I prefer to see him as a president who doesn't start illegal wars in order to make money.

I will stack up MSNBC facts against those of FOX any day of the week and twice on sunday.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Jan 25, 2011, at 11:36 AM

Back in the day said: "Dont forget to watch the State of the Union speech by our President Barack Obama. Hopefully he wont sell us out to corporate America and Fox news."

He's already sold out us, and future generations of Americans, to Socialist, big government tax and spend policies and MSNBC. Maybe we should all go out today and buy expensive cars we can never pay for - to celebrate "your" president.

-- Posted by Ray on Tue, Jan 25, 2011, at 11:01 AM

Dont forget to watch the State of the Union speech by our President Barack Obama. Hopefully he wont sell us out to corporate America and Fox news.

-- Posted by Back in the day on Tue, Jan 25, 2011, at 7:43 AM

Speakin of lost souls, we haven't heard from you in a while JHH. Check in, if you can.

UpseDaisy you doin O. K. ?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Jan 24, 2011, at 11:50 PM

Jo glad to see you haven't made it to the "big cut off". I'm figurin my old man, and yours can wait a little while longer on us. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Jan 24, 2011, at 11:32 PM

Hey Jo!

It's good to see you again, and I'm glad you're doing alright!

How are you doing with the snow? Been out to the park for some sledding? :)

Hope the new year is treating you well. Let us hear from you every now and then!

Take care, my friend!

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Jan 24, 2011, at 9:08 PM

Slater, thank my friend for asking! Everything's things fine. I've been keeping up with my friends post! I like reading you guys,Slater,Nana, News Across okla. Oklahoma's Dad was an old acquaintance of our Family,although, i my self don't like to kill anything, never have, (unless they were trying too eat me) ha! My Dad and Okla Dad us to hunt a lot of Ducks & Geese on the old cutoff ,in Malta Bend! Good days gone by,too bad! Hang in there all you Guys!! Thanks

-- Posted by Jo on Mon, Jan 24, 2011, at 8:46 PM

Thanks for the history lesson, LadyJustice. It's always a plus to learn some of the story behind the topic being discussed. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Jan 24, 2011, at 7:51 PM

Iceland:

The first Scandinavian who deliberately sailed to the island now known as Iceland was Fl--ki Vilgerđarson, also known as Hrafna-Fl--ki (Raven-Fl--ki). Fl--ki settled for one winter at Barđaströnd. It was a cold winter, and when he spotted some drift ice in the fjords he gave the island its current name, Ísland (Iceland).

Greenland:

The name Greenland comes from Scandinavian settlers. In the Icelandic sagas, it is said that Norwegian-born Erik the Red was exiled from Iceland for murder. He, along with his extended family and thralls, set out in ships to find the land that was rumoured to be to the northwest. After settling there, he named the land Grćnland ("Greenland"). Greenland was also called Gruntland ("Ground-land") and Engronelant (or Engroneland) on early maps. Whether green is an erroneous transcription of grunt ("ground"), which refers to shallow bays, or vice versa, is not known. The southern portion of Greenland (not covered by glacier) is indeed very green in the summer and was likely to have been even greener in Erik's time because of the Medieval Warm Period.

-- Posted by ladyjustice on Mon, Jan 24, 2011, at 6:47 PM

Editor Crump,

A man with the screen name Jo hasn't posted for quite some time, and in one of his last posts, he alluded to having some health issues.

How about checking on his health and well-being and giving us an update, or is that beyond your purview?

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Jan 24, 2011, at 5:15 PM

Well the name Greenland comes from Greenland (Kalaallisut: Kalaallit Nunaat meaning "Land of the Greenlanders"; is referring to the indigenous people who live there and has nothing to do with past climate as roughly 80% has been covered with an ice cap that is melting.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Mon, Jan 24, 2011, at 3:34 PM

Global warming is what happens too Earth. Are we speeding up the process, probably so, but at the same time it's happened to Earth many times in the last 4 billion + years. Jus tlike there have been ice ages and everything in between. The earth goes through spells of hot and cold, it's nothing to get scared about for the next 100 years and at 30 years old i don't think i'll be around when it's time to worry about it.

-- Posted by oldschool17 on Mon, Jan 24, 2011, at 3:23 PM

Don't be silly, Mommyto1. The church of global warming never thinks about pesky details like facts and history.

-- Posted by marshall4ever on Mon, Jan 24, 2011, at 3:14 PM

Come on people why do you think they call it Greenland, don't you think it was a lot warmer then.

-- Posted by Mommyto1 on Mon, Jan 24, 2011, at 3:01 PM

rr3,

I see the county seat is blessed with a heat wave, sort of a "mini-global warming," one might say, but you don't believe in global warming, so the excessive melting of the Earth's icepacks is strictly an anomaly.

Why do you think the community of scientists studying this phenomenon is in such disagreement? Could it be that they were once employed as weather forecasters?

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Jan 24, 2011, at 2:48 PM

It's funny cheesehead they don't mention how much the sea levels rose in 2010 but yet they can tell us how much they will rise in 2100. Come on now can anyone really believe that?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Jan 24, 2011, at 1:28 PM

The Greenland ice sheet melting season lasted 50 days longer than average in 2010. This summer and spring were the hottest on record since 1873 in Greenland. This melting will contribute to rising sea levels in the next few decades.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/201...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Mon, Jan 24, 2011, at 12:35 PM

Cheetah, don't waste another minute - nothing says excitement on a Sunday evening like LINT!

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sun, Jan 23, 2011, at 6:44 PM

Eric,

Would you mind find out who is suppose take care of Sunset Gardens. Snow has not been removed and I was not able place flowers on my mothers grave for her Birthday ....

-- Posted by momandgramma on Sun, Jan 23, 2011, at 5:00 PM

By all means, Cheetah! Please do unravel that yarn for us!

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Jan 23, 2011, at 4:27 PM

Yes please Cheetah I am always interested in a good lint ball story :)

-- Posted by Mommyto1 on Sun, Jan 23, 2011, at 4:25 PM

In response to the poll conducted on President Obama I wonder aside from the Health Care bill if any of these people who are voting could name anything that has happened under his watch without a Fox News spin put on it?

With that being said his poll numbers are still ahead of where Pres Bush or Pres Clinton was at this time in their Presidencies as far as poll numbers.

-- Posted by miss october on Sun, Jan 23, 2011, at 3:30 PM

I read some comments from earlier that set me to entering one of my own. Pat Nolan is an incredible writer. He has brought us factual stories of our local news. Instead of throwing them out there with one or two line sentences and blah blah boringness he has filled in the gaps between the lines for us. Giving those of us who were not able to be where ever to witness first hand what ever he is reporting, an incredible glimpse of the details that surround any particular event. If you havent read Freedom comes with responsibility yet, you should take a look.

One day Pat we will be the old ducks making entries to a paper that is no longer a "paper". Think back......thirty/forty years ago..... one had to write, sign and mail a letter to the paper. It had to be received via snail mail, mulled over and then if you were lucky you might get a very small, in both length and letter height, return response. This would end up being a week or more out and if readers had missed a previous paper they were lost as to why the grit. Ahhhhh the 70's. Introduction to the rubiks cube spinning, parachute pant wearing, collars up high, like a virgin humming, pac man masters of the North American CONTINENT 80's...whew! Our hair was stiff, bubalicious was in. There were big hoop ear rings on junior high chicks, don't forget the leg warmers(even in summer), Friday/Saturday night from 7 to 12 skate sessions and if you didn't have a million zippers on your highly flammable MJ thriller britches you were absolutely certain to have your buns clad in levis. Oh yes....501's, button fly. Brings back memories of watching my cousin in the ER getting stitches in her chin. Both of us in the laundry room, waiting for the buzzer on the dryer to wield our blue jean armor that would proudly be displayed on our backsides. Neither of us speaking as we listened to the buttons tumble in the dryer. Our minds fully focused on the not so far away future of us at the skate rink standing poised on four wheels each foot in front of Galaga and Centipede, playing through the glare just to hope at slapping the joystick and popping the fire button to forever etch whatever initials we chose as our emblazoned glory mark. BUUUUUZZZZZZZZ. Dryer door flies open, we haul out our jeans, hotter than fresh baked bread, excitedly ram a leg in and begin the "hop" that enabled the skin tights to make it to your waistline. My cousin gets hers up first. Being a year older and much braver than I, she had dropped her skivvies when the dryer door opened and was suiting up COMMANDO. Now back in the 80's, as you well remember, there were a few choice words for a girl like that. Girls didn't like em and boys adored them. At any rate when the button fly was pulled all the way up she screeched out obscenities and started trying to strip them back off. Skin tight as they were, legs trapped and feet tangled, she hopped her way into a fall and cut her chin on the dryer door while her crotch burned with coin size red circles. Hence stitches. I tried to write a story about that experience for english class but was told to start over and make it about something important. Talk about censorship. What would our hippy, tyedye wearing, plant growing, free minded parents think of that??? Oh well that was back when kids actually got in trouble by their parents too. Makes me shake my head to think of what people are so willing to give up simply because they are scared. Scared of what? Dying? Aren't we all guaranteed that anyhow? Scared someone will disagree with us? Diversity is the gene pool for innovative success...is it not? Hmmmmmm just a Sunday thought. See ya round the block.

Ps....remember old school writing before a "crash" could wipe out two hours of hard work? That's why our predecessors used paper and pencil. A crash with those tools couldn't break and instantly zap your words into thin air. Your only worry was water or fire.....lol.

Just kidding on that last part.... We all know it's cause they didn't have the precious small electronic slates with a once bitten apple on the back aka iPad.

Keep writing Pat, and keep painting the pictures with words. Its awesome...or heres you one from the 80's.... Heavy dude, heavy...

-- Posted by ambiguity on Sun, Jan 23, 2011, at 2:13 PM

i heard there is going to be a new bbq rest. is that true?

-- Posted by Jason1969 on Sun, Jan 23, 2011, at 12:21 PM

I've borrowed this little poem to share with you:

WINTER IN MISSOURI

It's winter in Missouri

And the gentle breezes blow

Seventy miles an hour

At thirty-five below.

Oh, how I love Missouri

When the snow's up to your butt,

You take a breath of winter

And your nose gets frozen shut.

Yes, the weather here is wonderful

So I guess I'll hang around

I could never leave Missouri

Cuz I'm frozen to the ground!

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Jan 23, 2011, at 11:28 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Could you tell us who it's by? Thanks.

Gray hair,

I beleive that the mini golf course and trampolines at the Cree Mee Drive had been installed and later removed several years before the mini golf course at Morgan and English.

-- Posted by Bcat on Sun, Jan 23, 2011, at 10:21 AM

Yes there was a reflecting pool at the Statue of Liberty, north entrance of the park. And, I believe it was octagon shaped.

I, too, threw a few pennies in there. We would walk past it on our way home from a day in the park. Across to the Creemee...for a pinapple whip (Italian ice). Also, their broasted chicken...I can still remember that aroma! Haven't had broasted chicken as good as that since.

-- Posted by nouveaublogger on Sun, Jan 23, 2011, at 1:34 AM

nanadot... I get made fun of now when I pack an emergency bag of warm clothes and hand and feet warmers and etc... LOL

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jan 22, 2011, at 11:48 PM

Gray hair, you mentioned Benton School and, as bad as my memory is, I still recall a bunch of us kids playing ball or something there, looking up and seeing Ms. Bud Smith trudging across the playground with Chief Coslet. It seems two of the kids (whom I won't name) had climbed onto the roof of the school and some neighbor had called it in. Strangely enough, I do not recall any of the kids running away. We stood there waiting for whatever was going to be dealt to us. Her bark was worse than her bite. Scared the ...... out of me though and I knew I hadn't done anything wrong.

-- Posted by red dog on Sat, Jan 22, 2011, at 11:29 PM

I have lived here all my live and I remember Mr. Walkington's trampolines. I think he may have had the mini golf too at that same location. Do you remember he used to drive one of those Ford Econoline trucks--the one that had only a two seater cab and the low bed? As far as the mini golf on English, I don't know if it came before or after the one on Eastwood. I remember the home that was located there before it was torn down for the mini golf belonged to Mr. and Mrs. Nelson McQuiddy. She was the principal at Benton School when I attended there MANY years ago. GH

-- Posted by Gray hair on Sat, Jan 22, 2011, at 11:10 PM

Another memory of the Cree Mee. Mr. Walkington dug a couple of pits on the east side of the parking lot and put in trampolines. Pay to hop around. Someone had a mini golf course there also. Was the mini golf there before or after the mini golf at English and Morgan?

-- Posted by red dog on Sat, Jan 22, 2011, at 10:55 PM

Gray Hair, I can almost, but not quite remember a pool of water there. I certainly remember the Cree Mee. That was a turn-around on the strip. Mostly we cruised from out south around the Dairy Queen (sometimes), then through A&W (Dale Zank did some of his growing up there) past Coslet's 65 Drive In, around the Dog and Suds and on to the square. We then usually went on out to Valley Drive In at Miami and Morrow. We usually routed out to the Cree Mee every two or three trips. What did I leave out fellas?

-- Posted by red dog on Sat, Jan 22, 2011, at 10:50 PM

Regarding the statue at the north entrance to the park, there was indeed a pool around the statue. We used to ride our bikes over there after getting a five cent ice cream cone from Mr. Miller at the Cree-Mee just across Eastwood Street. While not certain, I believe the pool was eight sided and held only a few inches of water. We used to throw pennies in it. This would have been around 1963 as best I can recollect. GH

-- Posted by Gray hair on Sat, Jan 22, 2011, at 10:36 PM

What you do speaks so loud that I cannot hear what you say. ~Ralph Waldo Emerson

-- Posted by born-n-raised on Sat, Jan 22, 2011, at 10:01 PM

momaster, according to weather records I looked at earlier this week, Missouri is seeing some indications of the changes you mention. According to the Midwest Regional Climate Center in Champaign, Ill., between 1895 and 2006 the amount of annual precipitation in Missouri has risen overal1 by 1.5 inches (+0.3 in spring, -0.8 in summer, +1.5 in autumn and +0.4 in winter). Temperatures have changed in that period, too, annually by +0.5 (+1.0 in spring, -0.1 in summer, -0.6 in fall and +1.5 in winter. You can find more information about climate change here:http://mrcc.isws.illinois.edu/climate_midwest/mwclimate_change.htm#

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sat, Jan 22, 2011, at 9:55 PM

red dog: According to the notes on that page, the photo shown was taken in 1999, so if there was ever a pool, it must have been gone by then.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sat, Jan 22, 2011, at 9:41 PM

Let me check with the staff of the Genealogy Room in the library. They have many images and of course, access to newspapers going back more than 100 years. We having a saying: if Marvin Wilhite can't find it, it doesn't exist.

-- Posted by Amy Crump on Sat, Jan 22, 2011, at 9:38 PM

Scroll down the page of photos and the Marshall statue is in the 9th row of photos, second from left.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sat, Jan 22, 2011, at 9:33 PM

red dog: There is a photo of the Marshall statue on this page: http://www.cheyennetroop101.org/liberty/

I don't see a pool around it.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sat, Jan 22, 2011, at 9:32 PM

How many of you are still around that rode down that same hill in a soapbox derby car? Now that was an experience. It was held there several years.

I remember one year some misguided park superintendent allowed the derby to be held on the hill going down into what is now Lyon Bowl. It was just a dirt path that was somehow smoothed out and made wide enough for two cars. This would have been about due west of where third base is now on the big ball diamond. That was also an experience. A scary one. I don't recall anyone getting hurt but it surprises me if no one did.

-- Posted by red dog on Sat, Jan 22, 2011, at 9:05 PM

Thinking of the north entrance to the park reminded me of sledding on the road there. It was a pretty good ride down that hill. I remember a barrel about halfway up the hill that the park crew always started a fire in. Ride down the hill, trudge back up, stand by the fire a bit and do it all again. Wish I still had that kind of energy. I don't recall there being any adult supervision around then. Just kids having fun.

If you recall, there was a house partway down the hill on the west side that was for the use of the park superintendent or one of the employees. I think it stood until the seventies, maybe the eighties.

-- Posted by red dog on Sat, Jan 22, 2011, at 8:57 PM

I am sure most of you are aware Jeff Stubblefield is trying to find an image of the Boy Scout Statue of Liberty at the north park entrance. He intends to restore it to it's original form. From what I have read, Stubbie seems to think there was a pool of water around the base. Was there? I just can't remember.

I Googled Boy Scout Statue of Liberty and went to images. I saw a number of the statues that were erected all across our land but none of the Marshall statue. I saw many different style bases but none struck a chord with my memory.

Does anyone remember what it looked like? Maybe someone has a photo of it. It seems like maybe it did have a pool around it and was lighted. I just don't remember.

-- Posted by red dog on Sat, Jan 22, 2011, at 8:47 PM

Buttons, I go along with that. It sure is tiresome wading through all the bickering to find the happy stuff.

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Jan 22, 2011, at 8:36 PM

But isn't it nice to be able to read things that bring back memories or give you a smile WITHOUT all that bickering??

Sure would like to read more of these things.

-- Posted by buttons on Sat, Jan 22, 2011, at 8:03 PM

Well I guess you can't engage anyone in a conversation on this blog unless you talk about snow ice cream or the editorial policies of the Marshall Democrat News. Goodbye!

-- Posted by momaster on Sat, Jan 22, 2011, at 7:47 PM

ND, I was pretty ornery, but I didn't try that one on any of the litle kids. And to think, your own brother! ha ha ha!!!!!

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Jan 22, 2011, at 2:26 PM

When we were outdoors and needed a drink, we just scooped away the soot deposited by the coal-fired furnaces off the top of the snow and helped ourselves to the "clean" stuff. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Jan 22, 2011, at 12:21 PM

Last night, I think I saw this on CNN, they mentioned that one of the results of increased earth warming is an increase in the amount of precipitation due to the fact that the increased warmth causes more evaporation putting more moisture in the air. So what they were saying was that we should get used to more snow, more torrential rains like they have had in Australia and Brazil, etc. Interesting.

-- Posted by momaster on Sat, Jan 22, 2011, at 10:34 AM

Things You'll Need:

* 1 cup of half and half or whipping cream

* 1/2 cup of sugar

* 1 teaspoon vanilla

* 4 cups of clean, fresh snow

-- Posted by wheresthelove on Sat, Jan 22, 2011, at 9:32 AM

@Nana - You just triggered a memory for me with "snow ice cream". I remember my parents making snow ice cream, such an awesome memory. You don't happen to recall a recipe do you? I'd love to share that with my children.

Have seen a few snowmobiles around, those bring back good memories too of my time in the frozen North. :)

-- Posted by Scarpetta on Sat, Jan 22, 2011, at 8:15 AM

I watched channel 9 news tonight and yesterday and the day before... I am SO tired of watching about how and if the KC snow plows are ready and how tired the drivers are and all the complainers in KC who wont be happy unless they get out and plow, then sweep then squeegie, then get on their hands and knees to wipe up the remaining moisture after every single snow..... lol

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jan 22, 2011, at 12:10 AM

Koeller77...LOL now why the "gasp" at agreeing with me... LOL

I remember in the winter of 1976-77 that up in Trenton we got like a total of 32" or more after two different snow storms came through... My parents listened to the forecast and we went to the store and got food and milk and all that we might need to 'survive' until the roads were plowed and the last of the snow had fallen.

AND if they had to get out, they took blankets, and candles and all sorts of supplies in their car in the event of getting stranded on the road, and then they just DROVE SLOW when they were out.

We are a society of instant gratification though so we think we deserve all sorts of things to be handed to use immediately on a silver platter, without effort of our own and we expect the government to provide it to us with total disregard as to where the money comes from.

Back then if you lived in the country, either you missed school or your parents got the tractor out and plowed the road their selves and brought you either all they way into school or to the road where you met the bus. None of this missing school for 2-3 inches of school or due to it being "too cold"

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jan 22, 2011, at 12:07 AM

Slater, yep had to come in and change clothing! But it makes me smile everytime I look out my door! Was fun!

-- Posted by nouveaublogger on Fri, Jan 21, 2011, at 11:17 PM

Hey NB!

Yep, it's been too crisp up there to get the snow packed, but that'll come soon, I expect.

I can just see you making those snow angels. :) Get any snow up your sleeves?

Some of my friends ask me why I'd want to leave this climate and return to that one up there. I remind them they've forgotten what it was like to be a kid.

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Jan 21, 2011, at 11:09 PM

Buttons, indeed it was fun, and even after 50-some years I'd do it again.

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Jan 21, 2011, at 11:03 PM

Slater, a couple of the kids tried snowmen yesterday, said it wouldn't pack. However, it was perfect for snow angels....of which the kid in me could not resist! :)

-- Posted by nouveaublogger on Fri, Jan 21, 2011, at 10:52 PM

Something to think about:

www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/01/21/pearlman....

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Fri, Jan 21, 2011, at 10:52 PM

UPSEDAISY it was early 50's and the good ole days are gone.

No Red dog didn't have a hill coming or going, sorry you have been so touchy, smile it will get better.

Slater riding a sled behind a car really was fon was't it, I agree lets go to the meadow and build that snowman.

-- Posted by buttons on Fri, Jan 21, 2011, at 10:47 PM

When oldtimers write about their childhood experiences in coping w/snow, it would be nice to have a time frame: 40s, 50s, 60s, etc.

Does the Mayor or Town Council have the power to declare "snow emergency" routes closed to non essential traffic until town crews have plowed?

Amy Crump had thoughts on being happy or miserable. Ralph Waldo Emerson said it this way: ""For every minute you are angry you lose sixty seconds of happiness."

The snow will melt. If you still have power you can always clean house and organize.

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Fri, Jan 21, 2011, at 10:30 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
I asked a Municipal Services official about that and was told there is an emergency snow route regulation, but they use it only as a last resort and haven't done so in at least 20 years because they want to remove snow with as little inconvenience to residents as possible. Instead, they ask for voluntary compliance.

Growing up in Slater I saw two streets graded after big snows - Main Street, and Broadway, the street that's a county road running north and south from 240 highway to the county road ending up at 41 highway a bit south of Miami. During my high school years we tied the homemade sled to the back of a car and away we'd go.

C'mon, gang! Let's go out to the meadow and build that snowman! :)

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Jan 21, 2011, at 10:11 PM

I apologize. I am just too touchy the last few days.

-- Posted by red dog on Fri, Jan 21, 2011, at 9:49 PM

You don't have to chide me about the "old days". I was here. I lived them. The City owned one war surplus road grader and two dump trucks. There was a front loader at the power plant that loaded the dump trucks with cinders. The cinders were spread with scoop shovels.

That was then. This is now.

-- Posted by red dog on Fri, Jan 21, 2011, at 9:26 PM

I have to laugh at the remarks about our street dept. what would these people do when years ago we did'nt have a street dept. to clean one road let alone the whole town of Marshall, and guess what? WE MADE IT, kids walked to school sunny or snow, rain or windy.

wE lived 3 1/2 miles from school and went every day WALKING.

Our parents drove to work, sometimes breaking their own tracks coming and going, and never missed a day, and believe me we had snow on the ground from late Oct-April.

We never went hungry, had plenty of clothes (outer and inner) to wear, always getting to the stores when we needed something, and our roads and streets were not half as nice as they are now.

Some time we got lucky and a neighbor bladed our rsteet only for it to snow during the night, Believe me we had deep snows.

Our streets are in fine condition compared to then, What oh what would these COMPLAINERS do??

You sure can tell the ole timers from these young ones.

-- Posted by buttons on Fri, Jan 21, 2011, at 7:38 PM

Haha Cosa. If I post it after you said that, it will definitely be deleted again.

-- Posted by AnneD on Fri, Jan 21, 2011, at 7:37 PM

I did but it was deleted. ???

-- Posted by AnneD on Fri, Jan 21, 2011, at 7:26 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
No. You added a comment about the business, too.

Eric, this person with the problem needs the contact information for the snow removal service. It's public information. The man has a business and his name is in the phone book. Why can't we give company info like owner's name and phone number?

-- Posted by AnneD on Fri, Jan 21, 2011, at 6:56 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Sure. You can post the number.

Just giving some local business information that is available in the phone book. His number isn't unlisted.

-- Posted by AnneD on Fri, Jan 21, 2011, at 6:26 PM

I think the city and county road crews have done an excellent job so far. Every road I had to drive today was plowed. I take my hat off to these men. They're tired and doing the best they can and are facing more long hours of work if we get this next forecasted snow.

-- Posted by AnneD on Fri, Jan 21, 2011, at 6:16 PM

Mother Nature always wins these contests. Budgets only go so far. We can have our roads cleaned perfectly...at a cost. We may not get new roads or resurfaced roads in the summer, as the budget covers roads, police, fire, insurance, and other necessary items. Give Mother Nature her due and just be careful at these tougher times.

As to the wages of the city employees...I believe they have had raises greater than the cost of living for quite a few years now.

I think they are doing a great job, and as I have said before; if you want to gripe about the budget, go to city hall, pick a copy of one up, then go to a council meeting with your questions. I think you may get an education, I did it years ago, and learned a great deal.

-- Posted by Interested Too on Fri, Jan 21, 2011, at 6:09 PM

The schools were cancelled today because of bad weather. Why are the basketball teams playing out of town today. If the weather is to bad for schools, it should be to bad for the ball games.

-- Posted by pennypincher1 on Fri, Jan 21, 2011, at 5:34 PM

SCENE: Red Dog (alias Shane) faces off with Purse Strings (alias Jack Wilson):

Red Dog: So, you're the famous Purse Strings. I've heard of you.

Purse Strings: So have a lot of others, and to save you time and trouble, I'll say it again - there's no money to clean the streets.

Red Dog: You're a low-down Yankee liar!

Purse Strings: Prove it...

And we know how that story ended.

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Jan 21, 2011, at 5:01 PM

Maybe they could use the MSDC building to store it....

-- Posted by Oldblackcat on Fri, Jan 21, 2011, at 4:39 PM

12 hrs on 12 hours off is how it is for the street dept., so they are working. It is the 3:1 ratio of salt and sand that sits in the open all year through rain, snow, and sunshine that is the problem. No where to store it, and not enough salt! They also don't have the equipment to per treat. Now let's throw in the break downs from worn, out of date equipment! Oh don't forget about what little they are paid and all the complaining from Marshall citizens that they must endure.

-- Posted by jamie77 on Fri, Jan 21, 2011, at 4:33 PM

I find only one word that describes the condition of the streets in Marshall and that is "shameful". This is the second full day after only about 8 inches of snow and the main streets are still snow packed.

Why?

Don't anyone tell me it is because the temperature is so low the chemicals won't work. What chemicals?

I have been in Sedalia today and the main streets are clear. I was there the day after the earlier snowfall and the main streets were clear. Not in Marshall though.

Perhaps the reason the streets are still snow packed is because there is insufficient money to buy the chemicals and sand needed. Perhaps there is insufficient money to pay the road crews overtime.

My gut feeling tells me it is a ploy by someone on the council level to budget insufficient funds to do the job that is needed. This is one way to call the citizens attention to the lack of money and then ask the citizens to approve another tax devoted to road maintenance and whatever else that can be tacked onto the proposition.

The problem is not caused by the Street Director's inability to do the job. I would say the problem is he does not have the authorization or the supplies to do the job.

Am I way off base on this? If there isn't money alloted to do the job right I wish someone would say so.

-- Posted by red dog on Fri, Jan 21, 2011, at 3:53 PM

@mrxray -

I have to say I *gasp* agree with you! We get a LOT more snow up here in WI than you do down there, so you think people would be used to the fact that it snows in winter by now, and yet they seem to be surprised, every single snow storm!

-- Posted by koeller77 on Fri, Jan 21, 2011, at 10:29 AM

Amy -

So true, so true!

-- Posted by koeller77 on Fri, Jan 21, 2011, at 8:38 AM

Every year we have snow..... every snow storm we have a day or two of forecasts... maybe if you took the time to pre-plan and get your meds and milk and beer, and fill up your gas tank a day or two BEFORE the snow gets here then you can eliminate the need to drive on the snow....

I find it amazing how big of a deal people make because it snows... every year

-- Posted by mrxray on Fri, Jan 21, 2011, at 8:29 AM

Just thought I'd share something I read yesterday:

You can make yourself happy or make yourself miserable. It takes the same amount of work.

-- Posted by Amy Crump on Fri, Jan 21, 2011, at 7:08 AM

20 hwy is icy as well as H. None of the gravel roads that I passed on the way home yesterday have been plowed.

I have no idea why school has not been called off.

I really like knowing the day before. It makes a difference what time to wake him. What he has to take and what sitter to use. If they are going back why not annouce it?

-- Posted by litlmissme on Fri, Jan 21, 2011, at 5:48 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Classes in Marshall have been canceled for today.

It's the time of the season

When the love runs high

In this time, give it to me easy

And let me try

With pleasured hands

To take you and the sun to

Promised lands

To show you every one

It's the time of the season for loving

What's your name?

(What's your name?)

Who's your daddy?

(Who's your daddy? He rich?)

Is he rich like me?

- The Zombies.

-- Posted by EMINEMis the GREATEST EVER! on Thu, Jan 20, 2011, at 11:26 PM

I wish they would cancel school as well..I live over by wal-mart and they never clear the streets over there... My brother in law got stuck as did my parents just today..It's going to be miserable trying to get my son all the way to eastwood tomorrow!

-- Posted by MG2008 on Thu, Jan 20, 2011, at 10:13 PM

I hope they cancel school for Marshall soon. I don't understand why they haven't yet. We live out in the country and can't even begin to get out of our long driveway. I heard the city roads were pretty clear, but EE is a mess and so are county roads.

-- Posted by Marshall Citizen on Thu, Jan 20, 2011, at 8:44 PM

anybody know if anybody has a cheap van for sale?

-- Posted by Jason1969 on Thu, Jan 20, 2011, at 7:31 PM

Hats off to the City of Marshall for the great work in getting the snow routes cleared. I know many of the side streets are still a mess, but you can still get around town. Also, hats off to the crew that takes care of the courthouse. I was on the square over lunch and the sidewalks and steps at the Courthouse were not only clear of snow, they were already dry! Great job!

-- Posted by OldOwl on Thu, Jan 20, 2011, at 2:21 PM

Here's my advice about driving in snow and bad weather for those who never listen ...

If you are afraid to drive in snow (or other bad weather), then DON'T! If you don't absolutely have to get out, then stay home. If you have to get out - no food, need medication, employment issues - then pick up the phone and phone a friend! Chances are that one of your friends is either comfortable driving in this and will play taxi for you, or they know somebody else who is.

The best way to learn to drive on bad roads is to actually get out and do it - but do it in a safe place. Find an empty parking lot. Do some low-speed donuts and work up into a slide or spin and learn how to get back out of it. See what happens when you jam on the brakes, and see what happens when you brake smooth and steady. Jerk the steering wheel back and forth a little and see that you don't HAVE to grip the wheel with that white-knuckle death grip to keep the car under control. After a while, some of the things you've been told about how to control a car in a skid become second nature, and you have to work to actually get a skid started because it becomes so automatic to prevent it.

Just my opinion - worth every penny you paid for it!

-- Posted by TerryM on Thu, Jan 20, 2011, at 12:45 PM

Has anyone heard anything about a new BBQ place opening in Marshall?

-- Posted by born-n-raised on Thu, Jan 20, 2011, at 11:21 AM

If your car is equipped with ABS, do NOT pump the brakes. See this link for more information:

www.intellichoice.com/carBuying101/AntiL...

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Thu, Jan 20, 2011, at 11:04 AM

One thing to keep in mind when braking on slick roads - if your car is equipped with an anti-lock brake system (ABS), pumping the pedal is NOT advised, because that's done automatically by the braking system.

Proceed slowly with all due caution and shift into neutral, letting your vehicle coast to the stopping point as you either gently pump the brake pedal (standard type) or apply steady pressure on the pedal (ABS type).

Isn't driving in the snow FUN? Ahhh! Home at last, and now for that stiff drink to settle my nerves!! :)

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Jan 20, 2011, at 11:01 AM

Little lesson in driving in snow if you don't drive past 20 miles per a hour there is no way you should slide..When breaking at least start breaking at twice the distance and do the gentle pump break its easy to drive on snow you just have to be smarter than the snow. I have never gotten stuck and i have driven in blizzards. I would hate to see if you all had to drive in kc or Columbia.

-- Posted by Jason1969 on Thu, Jan 20, 2011, at 10:33 AM

Once again we were hit by Mother Nature. Let me again say if anyone needs their driveways and/or sidewalks cleared I know 2 young men who do a wonderful job. My driveway looks amazing. Give them a call @ 660-631-2541 or 660-815-4392. They are out now and would be glad to do the job foe a reasonable price. A huge THANK YOU to Lucas & Adam.

-- Posted by Marshallgirl71 on Thu, Jan 20, 2011, at 10:12 AM

Any official word on how much blanketed us?

-- Posted by Scarpetta on Thu, Jan 20, 2011, at 9:06 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
KMMO reported 7.5 inches in Marshall overnight. Of course, we've gotten more since 7 a.m...

Just watching the news this morning and you'd think it has never snowed before!

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Jan 20, 2011, at 6:35 AM

I personal have put my vehicle in neutral, eased on the brakes and still slid through stop signs at 5 pm yesterday....I know how to drive in snow, but they shouldn't wait till there is 2 inches before they get out because it will be packed down and you can't get it up. just like the last snow we had on the 11th.

-- Posted by missouriwoman3 on Thu, Jan 20, 2011, at 4:53 AM

If ur slidin past stop signs why u u slow down and put ur car in nutrel and ease on the brakes and u wont slide past the stop signs it only takes common sinse to drive in the snow

-- Posted by arojr on Wed, Jan 19, 2011, at 8:28 PM

The city needs to be proactive not reactive. I live on an "emergency snow route" still haven't seen a plow truck. While I dont expect them to tend to the side streets, the snow routes should be cleared of cars and plowed. There aren't that many snow routes in this town.

-- Posted by Scarpetta on Wed, Jan 19, 2011, at 7:06 PM

Geez, Selmac. It's snowing out. Hard. Of course you're going to slide. If you go slow enough, you won't endanger yourself or others. To say the city crews are letting us down is a quite a stretch, too. Even if they had three times as many plows, there's no way they could keep streets perfectly clean. It's a snow storm! Drive accordingly. Marshall crews -- keep up the good work!

-- Posted by taxedpayer on Wed, Jan 19, 2011, at 6:31 PM

I have chains on my truck, Doing 10 miles an hour I still slid when I came to stop signs, So far this winter the City of Marshall has failed its citizens. When you let it get so bad the snow plows slide off the road, You waited to long.

-- Posted by Selmac8 on Wed, Jan 19, 2011, at 5:17 PM

I'm just curious if the city is gonna plow i slid through 5 stop signs just going across town...Maybe they wanna wait and let it all get packed down again(repeat of the last snow) before the send out plow trucks. I mean come on get going its not gonna get any better

-- Posted by missouriwoman3 on Wed, Jan 19, 2011, at 4:44 PM

5 signs really? Two words come to mind. SLOW DOWN!

-- Posted by litlmissme on Wed, Jan 19, 2011, at 4:49 PM

I'm just curious if the city is gonna plow i slid through 5 stop signs just going across town...Maybe they wanna wait and let it all get packed down again(repeat of the last snow) before the send out plow trucks. I mean come on get going its not gonna get any better

-- Posted by missouriwoman3 on Wed, Jan 19, 2011, at 4:44 PM

Not so well wheresthelove,

she keeps people out of my yard and parking spot and I really like that part, but leaves her own special landmines all around to make sure I`m paying attention.

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Wed, Jan 19, 2011, at 12:05 PM

Hey at least fresh aire vented their apparent frustration here, LMAO! How you doing BigFatGuy with the slobbering dog.

-- Posted by wheresthelove on Wed, Jan 19, 2011, at 10:48 AM

Freshair,

Here is a thought, are those stopsigns on walmart property instead of public roads? Does walmart have the authority to enforce its road signs?

Do the police have the power to enforce stop signs in private parking lots? My driveway says Chevy Parking Only. Who enforces that sign?

No offense intended, I just don`t know the answer to most of those questions. (the chevy one is enforced by myself and a big slobbering stinky dog)

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Wed, Jan 19, 2011, at 8:50 AM

Yep !!! lol

-- Posted by fresh air on Tue, Jan 18, 2011, at 10:05 PM

To the lady in the SUV on the Wal Mart parking lot today: The entrance to the store parking lot is a 3-way intersection NOT a 4-way. I had the right of way NOT YOU so next time please STOP for the cars entering the parking lot from 65 Highway. Thanks.

-- Posted by fresh air on Tue, Jan 18, 2011, at 4:17 PM

Scientists predict that tempertures may increase more than originally thought if society continues to produce greenhouse gases at the current pace. This new study suggest that greenhouse gases can produce twice the heat as once thought.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/201...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Mon, Jan 17, 2011, at 11:12 PM

I, too, liked Pat's story. I found it very descriptive and completely unbiased.

-- Posted by ALM on Mon, Jan 17, 2011, at 10:32 AM

free your mind and the rest will follow!!

-- Posted by wheresthelove on Mon, Jan 17, 2011, at 9:24 AM

at newspaper writing conferences 10 to 15 years ago - you could see the trend toward more narrative news writing beginning to take hold - even way back then - with some pretty major newspapers.

pat did a good job with the courtroom story - kind of capraesque i thought - but some still like the dragnet, sgt. friday approach - "the facts, ma'am, just the facts."

just sayin

zeke

-- Posted by zeke on Mon, Jan 17, 2011, at 8:29 AM

I thought Pat did a wonderful job on that story, and meant to say so sooner. I was there, one of the people filing in for an afternoon case. His depiction put to words exactly ow I was feeling that day.

-- Posted by Philemon on Mon, Jan 17, 2011, at 8:05 AM

and i liked it, so there ya go, different strokes for different folks, just not of the clock!!

-- Posted by wheresthelove on Sun, Jan 16, 2011, at 12:39 AM

I myself looked at that story by Pat Nolan as a common play on words often used in situations like this. Often I hear people say "it was if time stood still", in this case...time was standing still by the clock that didn't tick. BTW...can someone fix that?? All those tax dollars that went to renovations...can we get that fixed??

-- Posted by Scarpetta on Sat, Jan 15, 2011, at 10:39 PM

Hi Slater,

People are having fun w/the zodiac. My son-in-law, who turns 60 in February is quite taken w/the idea he is now an Aquarius. Age of ...rather fits him. Our daughter is less happy about being a Pisces.

When I first read the new sign, I thought Oprah might have invented it.

Hit the car wash this a.m. Grandson, who helps w/pumping gas was annoyed that at least two of the four cars ahead of us, had far less salt on their cars than mine. Doesn't work that way, son:)

Sorry about the ribbon candy. I was looking forward to vicarious enjoyment from your descriptions.

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Sat, Jan 15, 2011, at 8:59 PM

Patrick Nolan's "short story" about "the clock that does not tick" was a far cry from practical journalism. It seemed to be a mockery of a trial where an all white jury convicted a man of color without proper representation by either witness or defense attorney.

I think Mr. Nolan should write greeting cards for Hallmark and leave the news reporting to someone with a little more professionalism that will report the facts as they are, and allow the public to have a better picture of what is going on.

I think the clock is about to stop ticking on Mr. Nolan's journalistic career.

-- Posted by Bad Egg on Sat, Jan 15, 2011, at 7:38 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Pat wrote it, but I approved it, so I take responsibility for publishing this particular portrayal of the trial. It is an unusual approach to the situation, I agree, but I believe the story included all the features of good journalism -- it was fair, balanced, accurate -- with the addition of description that helped readers see the scene more vividly.

I don't begrudge you your opinion about it and thank you for taking the time to share it. Just offering another perspective.

Kathy Fairchild said: "I'll let those facts speak for themselves."

Put in the context of what's been said, I stand by what I've said.

-- Posted by Ray on Sat, Jan 15, 2011, at 2:45 PM

Clearly not, hunterfisher. I've heard it's lonely at the top.

-- Posted by born-n-raised on Sat, Jan 15, 2011, at 2:34 PM

To lighten all the talk about having "the last word"....try writing your own eulogy, such as I have warned my children that I have done. :)

-- Posted by nouveaublogger on Sat, Jan 15, 2011, at 2:14 PM

hunterfisher: Sure. I haven't said anything in an hour. What are you waiting for?

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sat, Jan 15, 2011, at 1:52 PM

is it possible for kathy to let someone have the last word?

-- Posted by hunterfisher on Sat, Jan 15, 2011, at 1:34 PM

Ray - Mere presentation of factual information is not vitriol and it's not sniping. I posted factual information from the website of the U.S. Chamber for the purpose of clarifying what was being discussed. You came back with "It's a slap in the face of hard working conservative business people everywhere and you know it, and it's typical of the left-wing sniping on this blog."

I'll let those facts speak for themselves.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sat, Jan 15, 2011, at 12:57 PM

I definitely don't come here for political exchange, rather news of home. MDN has set up a political blog and said to "Take it there," paraphrasing. If they simply followed their own guidelines and deleted all political speech from this blog, none of this would be going on.

That being said, last night I went for a walk where I live, wearing a T-shirt, blue jeans and walking shoes. It was very warm (70's) and enjoyable, but you can't take Missouri out of this boy. My heart is often in Marshall. I'm certain I'd miss this place too if I moved away. Such is life.

-- Posted by Ray on Sat, Jan 15, 2011, at 12:13 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Just to clarify: The politics forum was created by request of people who felt political discussions had a tendency to overwhelm Speak Out. I didn't say all political discussion had to move there. I just created a place it could move. Speak Out remains an open forum, but the expectations of at least a portion of the community here would like politics to stay in the politics forum.

Eric,

Maybe you could start a seperate thread for "perpetual victims" of vitriol and sniping?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Jan 15, 2011, at 12:08 PM

"Seems every one HAS to have the last word and won't give up. For crying out loud people give it a rest."

Please take a look at the first words in these exchanges. The one thing that everyone should consistently see from carefully reading the posts is that it's overwhelmingly the same few who always have the first vitriolic word(s), starting these exchanges. And they seem to be immune from repercussions, because they keep doing it. Why? That itself is a message sent by Marshall DEMOCRAT News. My responses are just that, "responses," to their vitriolic attacks (sniping). You can ban me, but it doesn't address the source of the vitriol.

-- Posted by Ray on Sat, Jan 15, 2011, at 12:04 PM

Kathy Fairchild said: "Ray, I think you need to back up just a bit and take another run at this. I am ONLY pointing out that there is no relationship between the U.S. and local chambers of commerce. That's it - there is no agenda for me to push. My statement has absolutely nothing to do with right- or left-wing commentaries by others and should not be construed as such."

The name association (Chamber of Commerce) is still clearly there and it points a finger at all C. of C's., when the U.S. C. of C. is slammed. Local members share much concern (common ground) for business issues with the U.S. C. of C.

Maybe it's you who should back up and take another run at misdirection.

-- Posted by Ray on Sat, Jan 15, 2011, at 11:55 AM

Well if your ultimate goal is to drive people away from reading this web blog IT'S WORKING!

Good bye!

-- Posted by momaster on Sat, Jan 15, 2011, at 11:45 AM

WHY OH WHY can't you get off this MDN kick?? People gets tired of the same old agruements going no where.

Seems when it comes to goverment or the MDN it goes on and on. Seems every one HAS to have the last word and won't give up. For crying out loud people give it a rest.

-- Posted by buttons on Sat, Jan 15, 2011, at 11:24 AM

Ray,

you need to take it easy, your right, but dude they'll delete you, Poof - into cyber never never land.

Let Kathy have the last word. Really, names disappear never to return!

You make sense, but that don't really matter, live to fight another day ! you must survive, reason is refreshing, but you don't hold the cards, and then one day poof!

-- Posted by ceymorehobson on Sat, Jan 15, 2011, at 8:12 AM

Ray, I think you need to back up just a bit and take another run at this. I am ONLY pointing out that there is no relationship between the U.S. and local chambers of commerce. That's it - there is no agenda for me to push. My statement has absolutely nothing to do with right- or left-wing commentaries by others and should not be construed as such.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sat, Jan 15, 2011, at 7:52 AM

"Business" and "right-wing" are not pejoratives and I wish posters on this MDN blog would stop using them that way. If they are permitted to do so, then it is clearly bias on the part of MDN not to allow others to speak up against that vitriol.

-- Posted by Ray on Sat, Jan 15, 2011, at 7:40 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Good point, Ray. Exactly what I meant but did not say so well in my most recent blog post. Same goes for "left-wing." It's not a pejorative, either. I would like to ask folks to be specific about what they disagree with -- rather than using broad labels -- and treat with respect the people who hold views they oppose.

Is it possible?

NanDot said: "JHH, you ARE aware that "leftist" and "business" are diametrically opposed, as in business is generally considered "right-wing"...???""

And according to your "reasoning" is "left-wing" today considered anti-Capitalist, and anti-business. So if right-wing is generally considered business, what is "left-wing" generally considered? Is it just anti-business, anti-Capitalism, anti-something else, or does it actually stand for something? I think most people know what it is, but the censors here won't allow us to say. Obviously, only denigrating remarks about the "right wing" are allowed at MDN.

-- Posted by Ray on Sat, Jan 15, 2011, at 7:25 AM

"Ray - criticism of the US Chamber is not necessarily criticism of a local chamber. According to the US organization, "The U.S. Chamber of Commerce is not a governing body, chartering agent, or a regulatory agency for chambers of commerce, and we have no say in how chambers decide to run themselves. Any community can organize and support a chamber of commerce."

It's a slap in the face of hard working conservative business people everywhere and you know it, and it's typical of the left-wing sniping on this blog.

-- Posted by Ray on Sat, Jan 15, 2011, at 7:15 AM

Ray - criticism of the US Chamber is not necessarily criticism of a local chamber. According to the US organization, "The U.S. Chamber of Commerce is not a governing body, chartering agent, or a regulatory agency for chambers of commerce, and we have no say in how chambers decide to run themselves. Any community can organize and support a chamber of commerce."

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sat, Jan 15, 2011, at 7:02 AM

"Ray - gee, I thought it was the US Chamber of Commerce = er uh... you know, those guys THEY bought off... they bought China, too, I guess.;>D"

Will all the hardworking business people of Marshall (many who are members of the Chamber of Commerce) appreciate your condescending comments also aimed at all their hard work?

-- Posted by Ray on Sat, Jan 15, 2011, at 5:52 AM

"Ray - I would say that the more pertinent question is "what do you call it when government operates at the behest of & in the interests of business?"

China.

-- Posted by Ray on Sat, Jan 15, 2011, at 12:43 AM

Hey Upsedaisy,

Nope, I didn't get the first hunk of ribbon candy! :( I got out twice in the two or three weeks prior to Christmas Day, but I didn't even get close to any of the Dollar General stores, or any confectionary type stores. I guess I'll try again next year.

Alas, the26er, I've yet to come close to your favorites, also. :(

Yes, I can hear the salt working on that thin metal found in vehicles these days.

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Jan 14, 2011, at 11:22 PM

I see we may be in store for an additional zodiac sign. Astronomer Parke Kunkle has suggested that sign Ophiuchus should be added.

Sounds good to me, but here's my warning to ya: take care in pronouncing it if you're a bit snockered at the time.

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Jan 14, 2011, at 11:15 PM

Nana,

I wish more of our news networks could have reported this story. So much for those who think all Muslims are evil.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Fri, Jan 14, 2011, at 8:54 PM

"Ray - I would say that the more pertinent question is "what do you call it when government operates at the behest of & in the interests of business?"

I don't know.

-- Posted by Ray on Fri, Jan 14, 2011, at 7:51 PM

had the joy of visiting Marshall today. Can someone tell me what happened to the road crews? back in the day Emergency Snow Routes meant something. Today they meant snow-packed. Someone in town told me salt was too expensive to use. funny guys, this is your first "real" snow to have to deal with. You can't be out of salt already. Hate to see my hometown going downhill....

-- Posted by put out on Fri, Jan 14, 2011, at 7:28 PM

Muslims in Egypt form human shield around Christians to protect them. These Muslims formed this shield under the slogan "We either live together or we die together." So its sounds to me that some Muslims are standing against extremists.

http://www.isna.net/articles/News/Muslim...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Fri, Jan 14, 2011, at 7:24 PM

If coming from Glasgow, make a right on Cambridge, just before the wreck. Take Cambridge to the first stop sign, make a left. At the next stop sign make another left. Go through the 4-way stop and make a right a the next stop sign. This will put you back on Highway 240, towards Slater.

-- Posted by ieatsuperglue on Fri, Jan 14, 2011, at 6:03 PM

Driver Jim Adkinson was unhurt by the wreck. If you need to get through Gilliam, turn on Highway M. Go to State Highway PP and make a left. Make a right on Cambridge Ave. just before the sharp turn. Follow Cambridge to the stop sign and make a left. This will put you on Highway 240 east heading towards Glasgow.

-- Posted by ieatsuperglue on Fri, Jan 14, 2011, at 6:00 PM

ATTENTIION:

As of 30 minutes ago, Highway 240 in Gilliam was still closed. A semi driven by Jim Adkinson was coming down Cambridge Ave. heading towards Highway 240. He didn't swing out far enough to make the turn, with the ground already soft, the tractor sank on the soft shoulder. Causing the semi to land in the ditch, blocking both lanes of Highway 240. More information to follow.

-- Posted by ieatsuperglue on Fri, Jan 14, 2011, at 5:57 PM

Scarpetta,

the absolute BEST prime rib in this neighborhood is at the Railyard in Brunswick. They are only open Thursday, Friday, and Saturday and sometimes you have to wait for a table but well worth it!

-- Posted by put out on Fri, Jan 14, 2011, at 4:52 PM

It's a simple matter of overhead. More than just printing a paper, they have to pay people to compile material, sell ads etc. Online ads don't generate as much income as you would think expecially for what could be considered a relatively small readership in the grand scheme of things.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Jan 14, 2011, at 3:43 PM

@born-n-raised, you're correct it doesn't make someone right just because they had the last word.

However, just posting doesn't mean that a person is intending to have the last word, but rather, perhaps they are continuing a conversation that has begun.

@Cosa - I think print news will be around longer than we thought...after all, when I was in high school 15 years ago, we were going to have a "paperless" society by the time we entered the workforce. Again, while I think the situation you describe is ideal, I don't necessarily think it will work for a paper such as the MDN.

-- Posted by koeller77 on Fri, Jan 14, 2011, at 2:45 PM

Oh, I wasn't referring to you Cosa.

-- Posted by born-n-raised on Fri, Jan 14, 2011, at 2:23 PM

Always having the last word doesn't make one always right.

-- Posted by born-n-raised on Fri, Jan 14, 2011, at 2:11 PM

Cosa, you should always be careful what you ask for.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Fri, Jan 14, 2011, at 1:57 PM

Cosa -

I agree with you that that situation would be ideal.

However, it seems that the newspapers that I am aware that tried this didn't make enough to pay their internet bills and so switched to paying-only content. I would rather suffer less information than see MDN have to go that way!

-- Posted by koeller77 on Fri, Jan 14, 2011, at 1:56 PM

Cosa Nostra: Thanks ever so - I had four yesterday along with a lumbar puncture, so I've had quite enough needles for a good long time.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Fri, Jan 14, 2011, at 1:47 PM

Cosa Nostra, you asked if I would like to "weigh in."

I would.

I was not born here or raised here - I was born in Newark, New Jersey in 1946, and from the time I was about 5 years old until I graduated from high school in 1964 in Lincoln, Nebraska, I was a military brat, living with my parents and siblings in several states and overseas (in Libya) during that time.

The majority of my adult work life (more than 30 years) was spent with a very large manufacturing company from which I retired in 2003.

I am related to just three people who live in Saline County. One is my husband. He is not Smokin' Cheetah, and neither are the other two.

I have lived in Marshall for just under 5 years, and began working for the MDN in September 2006 as a news clerk, moving to reporter and columnist about six or seven months later. I was last employed by the paper in September 2010; prior to my departure, I had been working only part time for a couple of years.

Those are the facts. Happy as I would be to be related to Smokin' Cheetah, whose intelligence and sense of humor I greatly admire, I am not.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Fri, Jan 14, 2011, at 1:35 PM

Actually, Cosa, I personally prefer it this way. Many of the newspapers that I used to read for free online started charging to read their paper online when they started putting all of their content on there.

Guess what? I'm not willing to pay to read it and I don't subscribe to either print or online versions of those papers. I'd venture to guess I'm not alone in that...

-- Posted by koeller77 on Fri, Jan 14, 2011, at 12:50 PM

Nanodot said: "... JHH, you ARE aware that "leftist" and "business" are diametrically opposed, as in business is generally considered "right-wing"...???"

And what is it considered where government owns, or controls, business?

-- Posted by Ray on Fri, Jan 14, 2011, at 11:08 AM

Anyone can do their own research to see when newspapers began accepting ads. An abundance of old newspapers are available online for collectors. http://www.historicpages.com/

There's nothing like reading an old newspaper to debunk a lot of the historical revisionism so present in social institutions (schools, media, etc.) today.

Suffice it to say that pre-Civil War newspapers had an abundance of ads - right on the front pages. Many early 1800's newspapers showed ads for "runaway slaves." I recall one about a Sheriff who'd apprehended a "runaway slave" who claimed to be "owned" by a woman. Holding that old newspaper and reading that ad was like stepping into a time machine.

As an aside, another place to find a lot of interesting, old printed material, that's been scanned and placed online, is the U.S. Library of Congress. It's interesting to see "King" crossed out of a Book of Common Prayer, undoubtedly by some War of Independence revolutionary.

As most know, ads are used to reduce the cost of newspaper subscriptions for readers.

What would the cost of a newspaper subscription be, without ads offsetting the cost of most (if not all) newspaper businesses?

-- Posted by Ray on Fri, Jan 14, 2011, at 11:03 AM

Hi Slater,

Any noteworthy ribbon candy tasted over the holidays? Snow/ice shut things down for awhile. Brine on the roads and now on the cars, (chomp, chomp). Wishing all a healthy, happy new year. Most of all peace.

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Fri, Jan 14, 2011, at 12:07 AM

Cosa,

I never thought of it like that but your probably right. I think that the businesses in the community probably are lucky some of those who work for the newspaper grew up here and are a little more fearful of pulling feathers.

-- Posted by Back in the day on Thu, Jan 13, 2011, at 8:11 PM

Cosa

I agree with you about businesses using their influence to limit free speech. I hope the editor and Marshall Dem news will not try to limit our freedom of speech because most business owners in the community have one goal and that is to make money.

If a business has did something that someone finds offensive or wrong the community and surrounding communities should have a right to know about it. Most business are worried about money then being honest in their approach.

-- Posted by Back in the day on Thu, Jan 13, 2011, at 1:33 PM

Cosa nosta -

I'm reasonably sure it's not much of a secret on these blogs that I'm Kathy's daughter, which is WHY I can say that neither of us are related to Smokin' Cheetah.

-- Posted by koeller77 on Thu, Jan 13, 2011, at 1:24 PM

Knowing both Ms. Fairchild, and Smokin' Cheetah personally, I can say with authority that they are NOT related in any way, shape, or form.

-- Posted by koeller77 on Thu, Jan 13, 2011, at 12:24 PM

Newsacross- scary, isn't it, especially combined with all of the bird kills and fish kills in the last month?

Still, it's always been hard for me to reconcile global warming with my frigid WI winters! And especially because of the news story I saw yesterday that there is snow on the ground in 49 of the 50 states (Florida is the only exception!)

-- Posted by koeller77 on Thu, Jan 13, 2011, at 8:08 AM

I have a concern/request. The flag at the south golf course has been hanging by one connection for about two weeks. I respectfully request that it either be fixed or taken down. In respect for our nations flag I fear it may fall especially with the wind we have had. I also believe since it is winter and golf is not happening there does not need to be a flag flying at this time there - it is not lite and is not being taken care of properly. Thanks to the park officals/city that take care of this.

-- Posted by Pidge on Wed, Jan 12, 2011, at 10:06 PM

"2010 tied for Earth's hottest year on record, NOAA reports"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/01/2010-...

"Scientists see climate change link to Australian floods"

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE70...

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Jan 12, 2011, at 5:46 PM

And, Cheetah, darling, I'd hardly call my below posts from that blog post "repeated attacks". Note there's even an apology to you.

Blog: The real "General Hospital" (Posted by AnneD ~ 12/05/10) But we also have to practice a preventative lifestyle while we're young and growing older. The smoking you did previously to the past two years could have contributed to what happened. Sorry, don't mean to offend. Just trying to inform others about smoking. Smoking is a filthy, stinky, unhealthy habit. I'll jump down from my soapbox now and put it back under the kitchen sink.

Blog: The real "General Hospital" (Posted by AnneD ~ 12/05/10) P.S. Forgot to say, glad you're ok.

Blog: The real "General Hospital" (Posted by AnneD ~ 12/05/10) Kathy, I have read your past blog topics and comments and have seen you defend smoking and even make light of it so this doesn't surprise me that you're doing it again. What a shame but to each his own.

Blog: The real "General Hospital" (Posted by AnneD ~ 12/05/10) Cheetah, you are correct. There was none in her last post. It was the one before that. Your comment to me - your last sentence - is a bit rude and uncalled for, don't you think? If you took my previous comments as rude, I apologize for they were not intended that way. Tone of voice can not be heard online and all that, you know. I was only lamenting that she would still defend smoking after abstaining for two years and after what happened to her last weekend.

-- Posted by AnneD on Wed, Jan 12, 2011, at 5:08 PM

And, Cheetah, I am not employed by the Democrat News. Kathy is/was/whatever. That seems to be the $64,000 question of the day.

-- Posted by AnneD on Wed, Jan 12, 2011, at 4:55 PM

Cheetah, she has promoted smoking. Read some of her past blog posts.

I saved all the comments from those deleted General Hospital posts, including this one from you which was said to me. "might I humbly suggest a forward tilting of the head, whereby the eyes are parallel to the floor and the nose below them?"

When I came back with a surprised response that such a comment is not of your usual caliber but in light of your relationship with Kathy, perfectly understandable, we all know that is what got those posts deleted.

-- Posted by AnneD on Wed, Jan 12, 2011, at 4:54 PM

Sarah Palin's recent speech (blood libel) reveals why she is not qualified for national leadership. She leads by quitting her governorship to star on TV. She has a poor grasp of history when she uses the term "blood libel". Hopefully Republicans will turn to another in looking at 2012.

-- Posted by mu-grad on Wed, Jan 12, 2011, at 4:30 PM

To quote you, Eric. "Just to clarify: Kathy is not on the MDN regular payroll and only works on special projects on occasion."

That is still, in this community's eyes, an employee of the paper. She gets paid for special projects, correct? That still represents the Democrat News.

And to quote you further, when daisygurl22 asked you this question, "why can Kathy be allowed to be disrespectful????", your answer was:

"Response by Eric Crump/Editor:

Because as gatekeepers, reporters and editors have to tolerate more heat than others do. Otherwise, we're susceptible to claims that we screen comments to protect our own interests."

Now either she is or she isn't, which is it? You're speaking from both sides of your mouth.

She still writes a column, still has a blog. Isn't that being a representative of the paper?

Doesn't that call for having respect for her fellow co-workers?

-- Posted by AnneD on Wed, Jan 12, 2011, at 4:07 PM

AnneD

THANK YOU AND AMEN!! Someone finally sees what I see!!

Kathy~~~~

"That's really the fundamental question here. It seems some people simply cannot communicate without being snide or insulting. The newspaper asks you to be respectful of others, even when you disagree. If you prefer to be deliberately offensive, do so elsewhere."

Maybe you should take you OWN advice because you, yourself, have been snide and insulting!

-- Posted by daisygurl22 on Wed, Jan 12, 2011, at 4:01 PM

Eric and Shelly, when are you going to put a stop to this? You have one of your employees admonishing another employee in front of all of us!

Enough is enough! Whether Pat Nolan was wrong or right in what he said to news across, he is at least refusing to address it here and engage his fellow employee in online sniping.

Kathy Fairchild, have you no shame? What the heck has got into you? If I were to take on one of my co-workers on my business webpage as you have done here, I'd be fired or reprimanded and definitely very embarrassed.

As a Democrat News subscriber AND a paying advertiser, I am not at all happy with seeing this situation play out this way.

I ask again, Eric and Shelly, please note what your employee is doing.

-- Posted by AnneD on Wed, Jan 12, 2011, at 3:52 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Kathy has not been an employee of The Marshall Democrat-News for about six months.

Kathy,

Sorry, I took the exchange as you posted to be a general statement with no names mentioned to stop doing it and take it to the political blog. News then claimed not to know what the problem was and asked, so it was explained to him, again, since it came up in November.

koeller77,

Looks like we agree again since that was the tact taken back in November, which was purposely ignored. Your first link didn't work, but the second seems to say that it was first used in innocence, but then their opponents ran with it because of the other meaning. That must make it a perfectly legitimate term to be spread on the front page to the paper and in a way, a doorstep to our town. Sorry, my bad. I'll say no more on the subject.

-- Posted by Philemon on Wed, Jan 12, 2011, at 3:46 PM

Philemon: I agree - but if he didn't know what word to look up, it's hard to figure out what you're doing wrong! I didn't know the meaning of the word myself until I saw a "funny" on FailBlog and didn't understand why it was funny. I had to look it up.

I also agree that Mr. Nolan's set-down of newsacross was unnecessarily rude. He could have simply said "Perhaps you are unaware that the derogatory term that you are using for the members of the Tea Party has another meaning. As such, please stop using it" and then linked to the urban dictionary definition.

And the Tea Party were the initial users of the word to describe themselves - it wasn't until someone pointed out to them (and used it to make fun of them) that they discovered the derogatory use.

http://tinyurl.com/4a6m3x

http://tinyurl.com/ybghspq

-- Posted by koeller77 on Wed, Jan 12, 2011, at 3:29 PM

Philemon, I do disagree with you on whether the person in question was aware of the slang meaning of the word. It's clear he does not and he is joined in that lack of knowledge by millions of people. My objection to the attention directed at his comment was based on the fact that he was accused of deliberately using an offensive word in a very public way. That was absolutely not necessary and is not the way such comments have been handled in the past. The comment should have been deleted, if that was the goal, without the editorial comment - and the comment was definitely editorial in nature.

Here is the exchange I objected to:

"You guys should take this to the political blog where only those seeking it have to read it. I, for one, am extremely tired of having to read offensive sexual acts being used to describe political groups on the front page of the paper.

-- Posted by Pat Nolan on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 8:48 AM"

This is the first response:

"Pat Nolan

The Political Speakout is for discussing politics.

This is an ongoing story of a crime -- and act of terrorism. Its not about politics.

As to words you maybe misinterpreting, I looked carefully for the words containing sexual content and I could not see them. Perhaps you are reading a word and attaching a meaning to it that is not there and is incorrect.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 9:05 AM"

And the last response:

"News - it is your comments specifically. Do you really think your derogatory term for tea partiers is acceptable for the front page of a family publication? And it has nothing to do with discussing a crime.

-- Posted by Pat Nolan on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 9:15 AM"

I still think this was handled badly.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Jan 12, 2011, at 3:16 PM

koeller77,

I agree with you to a point. I didn't know what it meant till my teenage son pointed it out. Seems it is very common usage in the younger generation. I hear it is especially common in online video games. I could be wrong, but I think it was associated with that group of people in the first place because it had a derogatory meaning. As far as not knowing what it meant this week, I can't imagine someone that researches things to the extreme extent that he usually does not having looked it up back in November when it was first brought up, and if he didn't, he should have.

-- Posted by Philemon on Wed, Jan 12, 2011, at 3:01 PM

Philemon -

After reading the refereneced comments, I think it's pretty clear that the people using the "perjorative" term weren't really clear on the "urban dictionary" definition. In fact, one poster makes it clear what he thought the definition was.

In fact, I'm pretty sure that if I were to take an informal poll of the people I work with, you would find that less than 25% were clear on it's "true" meaning. Most assume it to be no more derogatory than calling someone childish or stupid.

-- Posted by koeller77 on Wed, Jan 12, 2011, at 2:07 PM

I stayed out of the argument the last few days mostly because I didn't want to post anything I would be ashamed of later, deleted or not. I think Eric does a great and very unappreciated job of policing the site. It's a generally thankless job that I sure wouldn't want to put up with. You're right Eric, when both sides complain, you have probably been fair.

Kathy,

Just a bit more data for you on your problem with a reporter's handling of a certain post. The term had been complained about before on the political blog on Fri, Nov 19, 2010, at 9:47AM. The poster being complained about replied at 5:00PM that evening saying that it was a "slippery slope" to edit that type of remark. So, if he didn't know of the derogatory meaning this week, then he has a very short memory. As far as that political party embracing the term, I wouldn't know. I don't think I personally know anyone who calls themselves a member, and I don't recall ever hearing the term used in a non-derogatory way by anyone.

-- Posted by Philemon on Wed, Jan 12, 2011, at 1:39 PM

I do believe in our right to speech and freedom of press..and with the the freedom of press comes editors... and we are talking in the editors "world" therefore he has a right to publish anything he wantsand "edit" what he wants.

-- Posted by Jason1969 on Wed, Jan 12, 2011, at 12:51 PM

Well Eric it certainly shouldn't be, but in the example I have given -- which occured just recently -- you seem to have done exaclty that. Perhaps it was just a mistake on your part. Perhaps you misread something in it, but deleted it was and an exact duplicate less the word "fascist" remains undeleted in the Politics Speakout section.

Look Eric, I am not trying to give you a hard time mate, I just wish you would use a little more discretion in the use of that delete button. Frankly, you may want to consider what Cosa Nostra had to say about it. I thought he made some excellent points. You may also want to consider that under no circumstances can you please everyone all the time. Some people are always offended whenever they read an opinion they strongly disagree with but there is no such thing as a right to not be offended. When opinions are involved, somebody will always be offended. I guess maybe we all just have to live with that if we choose to have a free and open society.

This is the last I am going to say about this matter. I really never intended to harp about this thing at all, but rather I just wanted to bring some aspects of the situation to your attention. All I can do is hope you will objectively consider the well argued points of some of the posters here such as those made by Cosa Nostra and maybe even the argument I am making.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Jan 12, 2011, at 10:11 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
I will consider your points. I appreciate you taking the time to explain your views.

"Deleting a comment or singling out a comment because the political opinion may not be the one commonly shared by the majority of an area's population is a violation of the neutrality mandate encoded within the generally accepted code of journalistic and editorial ethics."

Except for Mr. Crump does not delete or single out comments that don't share the majorities political opinions. He deletes them because they are argumentative, non-factual, unnecessarily inflammatory, and rude (among other reasons). After his request for people to STOP using their verbal scatterguns, people continued to do so, resulting in comment deletions.

Neutrality has nothing to do with it as he has been accused equally by both sides of deleting comments that don't further his own political beliefs. That in and of itself points to his inherent neutrality and fairness in deleting comments that do not belong on the MDN boards.

-- Posted by koeller77 on Wed, Jan 12, 2011, at 10:00 AM

Kathy Fairchild

See "neutrality."

Deleting a comment or singling out a comment because the political opinion may not be the one commonly shared by the majority of an area's population is a violation of the neutrality mandate encoded within the generally accepted code of jounalistic and editorial ethics.

For example, deleting a comment because the comment refers to the policies of a government as "fascist" would definately be crossing the line of neutrality.

Fascism is a political philosophy -- not a very nice one, but a political philosophy that has been practiced in a number of nations including Germany under Hitler, Italy under Musolini, Spain under Franco, and Chili under Pinoche. It is a legitimate target.

Yet one of my comments in which I characterized some of the policies of both the Democrats and Republicans as being "fascist" was deleted. We know it was that one word that was the cause of the deletion because I re-posted the exact same comment less the word "fascist" and it remained unmolested by the MDN deletion button. The comment was polite, was not directed at any one private or public individual, contained no cuss words or slang terms, and included a link to Reagan Chief Economist and Head of the Reagan Administration's OMB, David Stockman, in which he argues that these policies have resulted in our Nation's economy being beyond the point of no return.

While the editor certainly retains full rights to print what he or she wants, he or she is still responsible for complying with the standard accepted ethics of his or her chosen profession, and there are consequences for ethics violations that can last a lifetime. In most professions ethics violations are a death knell to the professional who dares to cross that line. Take for example an attorney who disregards her fiduciary duty to her client in the name of higher profit. That attorney would quickly find that the ethics violation is absolutely not acceptable to the local Bar and would probably soon be waiting tables down at the local Denny's -- because she sure wouldn't be practicing law anymore.

Ethics are very important in any profession and the professional that complies with his or her ethical responsibilities often gains the respect and admiration of both his peers and the general public. For the professional that fails in their ethical obligations...well...let's just say no one in their right mind would want to go there.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Jan 12, 2011, at 9:49 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Ideology is not mentioned in our policy nor is it a factor in our enforcement of it.

Posted by Marshallgirl71

"Just wanted to let everyone know that I had the guys from MHC Choraliers come remove the snow from my driveway and sidewalk. These young men did an excellent job. They even put salt down. All for a very reasonable price. So anyone needing this done, I highly recommmend you call them. And it helps fund the up coming trip to New York. You can reach them at 660-631-2541 or 660-815-4392."

Clarification: Just to clarify, this is not a MHS Choraliers fundraiser for the NYC trip. The two young men shoveling happen to be MHS Seniors and Choraliers, but they are providing this service for their own income, not as a group fundraiser. Thank you for your support and positive feedback though.

BTW, they are also available for lawn care and any other odd jobs.

-- Posted by k_m on Wed, Jan 12, 2011, at 9:49 AM

After reading all of the canons and codes of ethics provided, there are only two things I can say:

1) I agree with all of those ideas. (The first document cited is dated 1923 and is rather poorly written in spots, however), and,

2) There is a not a single word in any of those documents that indicates a newspaper should accept, allow or endorse personal attacks or name-calling by readers on each other, anonymous or otherwise.

That's really the fundamental question here. It seems some people simply cannot communicate without being snide or insulting. The newspaper asks you to be respectful of others, even when you disagree. If you prefer to be deliberately offensive, do so elsewhere.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Jan 12, 2011, at 8:40 AM

@ Cosa Nostra - I don't think the MDN's policies regarding Speak Out are all that unusual. Almost every newspaper/tv channel forum that I post on or read frequently restricts posting on certain stories, and monitors aggressively for the same things that Mr. Crump does.

@newsacross - Glad to hear that you're okay, and will keep Australia in my prayers! That said, as I read through the links you post, I don't see where the MDN has violated any of those tenants.

-- Posted by koeller77 on Wed, Jan 12, 2011, at 8:37 AM

Kathy,

I know of no socially acceptable violation of professional ethics.

Such violations can bring a whole slew of problems for the professional who violates the standard acceptable code of ethics for their profession. In addition, a violation of professional ethics is regarded by most professionals as evidence of incompetency as well as a sign of low moral character. Its not a good idea to violate universally accepted ethics in any profession. Such violations can bring public condemnation by other professionals in that field and in some professions can lead to a loss of certification.

Profit is never a good reason for ethics violations and in fact, a pattern of ethical violations could - and have -- end up bankrupting a business over the long run.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Jan 12, 2011, at 8:32 AM

Cosa Nostra - I appreciate your point of view, but don't confuse freedom of speech and censorship with the right of the newspaper to control what appears here. Freedom of speech and lack of censorship refers only to government interference with your rights as a citizen and the right of the newspaper to print any point of view.

The newspaper is a business and no canon of journalism or statement of ethics can argue that point, at least not successfully.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Jan 12, 2011, at 8:16 AM

Kathy Fairchild

When a journalist or editor violates professional ethics...there is a problem...

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Jan 12, 2011, at 8:12 AM

1.) "Canons of Journalism"

Ethical rules adopted by the American Society of Newspaper Editors on April 28, 1923, and since endorsed by many state associations and other groups of journalists:

http://www.superiorclipping.com/canons.h...

2.) "Status of Journalists and journalism ethics: IFJ principles"

International Federation of Journalists

http://www.ifj.org/en/articles/status-of...

3.) "ASNE Statement of Principles"

American Society of Newspaper Editors

http://web.archive.org/web/2008060516191...

4.) "Statement of Ethical Principles"

Associated Press Managing Editors

http://web.archive.org/web/2008062212340...

5.) "SPJ Code of Ethics"

Society of Professional Journalists

http://www.spj.org/ethicscode.asp

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Jan 12, 2011, at 7:58 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Thanks!

For those who object to the monitoring of comments on the newspaper's website, it may be helpful to think of it this way:

The Speak Out section and the comments sections of the website are a part of the newspaper's front door - its public face to its readers and to the larger world. If you were a business owner, you would not want a dozen or so people (or more) to stand outside your front door and shout insults and obscenities to one another. It surely would not be good for your business, and you would want those people to either change their language to something more acceptable or leave the premises. If you asked them nicely and they didn't leave, you'd be well within your rights to request the assistance of local police to remove the offenders.

The newspaper isn't asking anyone to leave the area around their front door - only that those people improve the level of communication so others can "enter" without being verbally assaulted. That is no more and no less than what you would expect in any business.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Jan 12, 2011, at 7:56 AM

news across: Good to hear from you - I was afraid you might have been swept away in the tides! I'm happy the U.S. can help with the problems down under.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Jan 12, 2011, at 7:47 AM

Just wanted to let everyone know that I had the guys from MHC Choraliers come remove the snow from my driveway and sidewalk. These young men did an excellent job. They even put salt down. All for a very reasonable price. So anyone needing this done, I highly recommmend you call them. And it helps fund the up coming trip to New York. You can reach them at 660-631-2541 or 660-815-4392.

-- Posted by Marshallgirl71 on Wed, Jan 12, 2011, at 7:30 AM

After three days of rhetorical storms, I've come to a conclusion. Major media talking heads do not understand the difference between degenerative brain disorders and social malajustment. For example, Alzheimer's is a degenerative brain disorder. Classic teenage onset schizophrenia is a degenerative disorder with reduced brain volume, loss of normal connections, and a statistical correlation with autoimmune problems. The Tucson shooter shows signs of degenerative brain disorder. I knew an old fellow who was moved to a nursing home against his will where he yelled and hit people with his cane. Was the cause Alzheimer's or anger about no longer living at home (social malajustment)? I'm sure the major media talking heads could render an opinion without asking for any more facts.

-- Posted by former editor on Wed, Jan 12, 2011, at 7:16 AM

Cosa Nostra

Wow! Well said!!

I have been reading up on the professional standards of editors and journalists today. It would behove crump to have a look at them sometime.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Jan 12, 2011, at 7:00 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Glad to. Send any sources you recommend.

THANKS AMERICA!!

As an Australian citizen, I would like to thank all those kind Americans and the American Government, who have sent millions in assistance, for their kindness, charity, and help which is coming in to Australia from America at this difficult time.

As you may know, 3/4 of the State of Queensland is currently a flood plain almost the size of the State of Texas, Brisbane, our 3rd largest city is underwated, and the flooding continues with great loss of property and increasing loss of life. Our Nation is devestated.

Thanks to assistance and money sent by the USA, we are slowly making headway in rescuing people.

We in Australia thank you for all your help, your prayers, and your financial assistance at this most difficult time.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Jan 12, 2011, at 2:33 AM

Hey BNB,

Another channel, fine, but please not on another planet, like Uranus, for example. :)

Incidentally, I brought along something for you when I came up in October and was going to see if I could leave it at the newspaper office, but the woman at the front desk was so rude I decided against it.

I'm coming back in April, so maybe I can hand it over directly at that time.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Jan 11, 2011, at 11:26 PM

Hi Upsedaisy,

Got snow?

I think we're safe enough from China's coming intercontinental nuclear capability. I can't see why they'd want to blow up something they have majority ownership in.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Jan 11, 2011, at 11:13 PM

China rolled out their first spy plane just before Gates arrived for his visit. He learned while he was there that China, in five years, will have nuclear missiles capable of causing damage to mainland USA. Perhaps, we should get back to the many, many serious problems facing this country.

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Tue, Jan 11, 2011, at 10:55 PM

lol @ Slater you are on a different channel and I think I much prefer it to the other choices.

-- Posted by broke-n-busted on Tue, Jan 11, 2011, at 8:57 PM

Good Gawd, I just caught up on my reading here.

All this bickering reminds me of when I was a kid and my brothers and sisters and I all had chicken pox at the same time and were stuck inside together the entire snowy month of February. My mother was ready to ship all of us to China!

Which is what I bet Eric would like to do too!

-- Posted by AnneD on Tue, Jan 11, 2011, at 8:07 PM

CALLING ALL BLOGGERS!!!!

Borrowing from Rocky Hardcastle, here's all I have to say:

ROCK ON!!!!!!!!!!!

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Jan 11, 2011, at 7:51 PM

Kathy Fairchild

You absolutely have the right to your opinion and to express that opinion at any time and in any forum.

...and I would fight to the death to defend that right without any reservations.

I hope you will continue to express your opinion here and in any other forum and I for one enjoy your comments. I find them to be thoughtful, insightful, sometimes surprising, and always well written...even when I may disagree with you.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jan 11, 2011, at 7:29 PM

Stop It! Just quit. I grew up in the business world hearing the phrase "if you don't like it, quit". That is a very meaningful direction. Nobody is forcing you to continue posting. If you feel violated, report it to the thought police. Maybe then you can hire an anonymous lawyer to file a lawsuit on your behalf for defamation of an anonymous person (you) by being mean and nasty because the respondent won't cave in to your demands.

-- Posted by red dog on Tue, Jan 11, 2011, at 6:45 PM

daisygurl22, I am posting under my own name and I am entitled to express my opinion on matters posted here, as everyone else is. I have not, at least in my opinion, said anything out of order. Clearly, you disagree, but that is, of course, your right.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, Jan 11, 2011, at 6:16 PM

Online sniping? My, now that is quite rude, I think.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, Jan 11, 2011, at 6:14 PM

So which is it?? She is no longer an employee which means she should follow policy like the rest of us OR she is an employee and was just doing her job as "gatekeepers, reporters and editors have to tolerate more heat than others do. Otherwise, we're susceptible to claims that we screen comments to protect our own interests."

OR the DMN functions as everything else in Marshall and only allow opinions that they agree with????

-- Posted by daisygurl22 on Tue, Jan 11, 2011, at 5:56 PM

While I am appalled at the shootings in AZ; there are shootings in Kansas City, Columbia and other towns near here as well.

I want the same concern for our victims as we are giving to the unfortunate people involved in AZ.

Why do we go nuts over these cases, just because the newspeople want a story? All are tragedies and need to be dealt with in a similar fashion IMHO.

-- Posted by Interested Too on Tue, Jan 11, 2011, at 5:49 PM

"Most Americans do not blame political rhetoric for AZ shootings, survey says"

"CBS said its nationwide telephone poll found that, "57 percent of respondents said the harsh political tone had nothing to do with the shooting, compared to 32 percent who felt it did."

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/01/most-...

I doubt any of us can determine at this time what the motivations of the shooter were when he made the final decision to cross that line into darkness. We will find out in time -- just as soon as he gets his plea deal. Until then, all any of us can do is speculate.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jan 11, 2011, at 5:41 PM

I think I understand the situation just fine, Mommyto1, and if Nolan wants to defend himself, he is certainly free to do so.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, Jan 11, 2011, at 5:12 PM

Quoting Kathy

"What I object to is the needless scolding of someone who clearly did not mean to be offensive"

and yet you try to do so. It sounds to me like you don't have the entire story, perhaps you should ask Mr. Nolan about it.

-- Posted by Mommyto1 on Tue, Jan 11, 2011, at 4:57 PM

Response to Loughner's carnage appears to be evidence that media and individuals projected their own, pre-existing views upon it instead of exploring information. It's a sad kind of ink blot, Rorschach test.

-- Posted by former editor on Tue, Jan 11, 2011, at 4:40 PM

daisygurl22 - If you believe that I was throwing Nolan under the bus, that's your opinion. In my opinion, Nolan was throwing an innocent person under the bus and I object to that kind of disrespect. As Eric noted, Nolan and I are not colleagues.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, Jan 11, 2011, at 4:39 PM

Eric,

Regardless it was disrespectful and she violated that policy.

-- Posted by daisygurl22 on Tue, Jan 11, 2011, at 4:26 PM

former editor: I can't disagree with someone who is writing an editorial (which is, by definition, the writer's point of view) wanting to prefer his own point of view. Just my opinion, of course.

I think it's crystal clear from everything we're reading about the accused Arizona shooter that he could best be described as mentally disturbed. Changes in how we deal with people like him have pushed them out of the care facilities they need and into the "mainstream."

For those in this situation, who are not equipped for or capable of dealing with the world as it is, the mainstream is a very bad place to be and easy access to guns doesn't improve that situation. Laughner (sp?) should have been in treatment to address his difficulties, not just sitting at home brooding about how poorly life was treating him. He might have had a shot at being a productive citizen, but was instead left to come up with a different plan for his life. His choice was poor.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, Jan 11, 2011, at 4:16 PM

Well, personally I think it was very unprofessional of Kathy to throw a co-worker under the train as she did Mr. Nolan. Whether he was wrong or right is irrelevant. The Democrat News made the politics board for discussion of politics, but that is clearly not enforced. I really don't care either way, but in my eyes, Kathy was very disrespectful to her co-worker. One more thing, since politics can be discussed here I am assuming if I choose to discuss some of the crime stories here that will be ok as well.

Thanks

-- Posted by daisygurl22 on Tue, Jan 11, 2011, at 4:08 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Just to clarify: Kathy is not on the MDN regular payroll and only works on special projects on occasion.

Regarding discussion about crime stories, comments will be deleted that violate our posted policy.

I just saw something truly amazing. An editor of a daily newspaper (not Eric or the Democrat) was proofing his editorial about the Arizona shootings before publication. I showed him Jared Loughner's video site where the 22-year-old tells about himself and what is important to him. I suggested to the editor that he read and hear what the shooter said. Instead, the editor didn't want Loughner's point of view. Editor preferred his own point of view. Loughner lived in a fantasy world. Do we all prefer our own fantasy worlds? NAMI national has an excellent position statement on the mental health tragedy.

-- Posted by former editor on Tue, Jan 11, 2011, at 4:01 PM

daisygurl: I don't believe I have been disrespectful at all.

Mommyto1: The sequence of events in Nolan's comments does not match your interpretation. What I felt was unfair was Nolan's assumption from the start that newsacross was KNOWINGLY using language that was offensive. It's clear that was not the case, and in any case, previous comments by newsacross would certainly not lead one to believe that would ever be the case.

What I object to is the needless scolding of someone who clearly did not mean to be offensive, and Nolan's failure to follow what I know was the policy as recently as a few months ago. Again, that is my opinion - you are free to disagree.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, Jan 11, 2011, at 3:47 PM

I think Kathy was right on with her assessment. When does honesty and fairness become disrespectful?

-- Posted by miss october on Tue, Jan 11, 2011, at 3:23 PM

Yes it most certainly was Eric.

-- Posted by daisygurl22 on Tue, Jan 11, 2011, at 2:27 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Sorry. Our system keeps a record of all comments posted. None by daisygurl have been deleted. It's possible something went wrong when you tried to post it.

so why can Kathy be allowed to be disrespectful????

-- Posted by daisygurl22 on Tue, Jan 11, 2011, at 2:25 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Because as gatekeepers, reporters and editors have to tolerate more heat than others do. Otherwise, we're susceptible to claims that we screen comments to protect our own interests.

rumor has it that the shooter in the arizona massacre emailed a goodbye note to a friend or two before going to the store to shoot the victims. maybe he planned it all out. don't know if that makes him sane or a terrorist. but he apparently didn't plan on being interupted before killing himself. the former military gentleman that tackled him and held him down while another bystander hit him in the face any time he moved (as reported on abc) probably kept this from being a murder-suicide.

maybe he was a terrorist with a mental disorder.

good grief -

zeke

-- Posted by zeke on Tue, Jan 11, 2011, at 2:04 PM

May I ask why my comment was deleted?????

-- Posted by daisygurl22 on Tue, Jan 11, 2011, at 2:03 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
None of your comments have been deleted.

I am compelled by my desire for accuracy to state that in my last post it was a member of the House of Representatives that made the Clinton assassination comment, a Senator made another inflammatory comment, similar to it. The Senator's comment with a few others also appeared in my deleted post. That's it.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Jan 11, 2011, at 1:07 PM

Kathy

After reading your comment I had to go back and reread the events of the last two days. I was curious what you found so wrong about Mr. Nolan's post asking News Across to take his political comments to the political blog. As a couple of people who agreed with Mr. Nolan also stated, some of those comments were not appropriate for the front page of a website.

I believe the comment you found offensive was after News Across asked for clarification. Which is what you said should be done in your post. Mr. Nolan's comment seemed quite justified since he is a member of the paper and only wants what is best for his readers.

-- Posted by Mommyto1 on Tue, Jan 11, 2011, at 12:59 PM

Just read a CNN article that the Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka is going to protest at the funerals in Arizona. Sad, very very sad.

-- Posted by momaster on Tue, Jan 11, 2011, at 12:25 PM

I took my own advice, and wrote again, in a different way, about the tragedy that is the talk of the blog. I was careful to not, even by the slightest insinuation, ridicule, or condemn any one who has posted anything about Loughner.

My point was that deranged people take literally comments about liberals by prominent right wing commentators, and elected officials, and that loose cannon remarks by those people are incendiary. I gave quotes by a senator who stated among other things, that to get rid of President Clinton if other methods failed, he should be assassinated. I also quoted a prominent radio personality who stated that liberals should be killed. I provided a link to a nationally known commentator who excoriated the national media for not condemning such remarks. That was it. My comment once again did not make the cut.

I reread it before I put it on the 'Speak Out" blog, and thought this one should fly. Just in case though, I decided to err on the side of caution, and put a more innocuous version on the rough, and tumble political blog, a site read, in my opinion, only by those who enjoy passionate political comment. There I merely stated the title of the columnist's piece, and gave his name (William Rivers Pitt), with a link to the comment. I thought "this will be in no danger of being expunged", even if for some reason the prior one is removed. As I discovered this morning both were removed.

This made me wonder what else has not seen the light of day. Mr. Crump has every right to remove whatever he chooses. It is my right to attempt to post, or not. At this time I have decided to no longer post. It is a habit that I enjoy, and will miss. I may return to read, and to post on these blogs, I may not, as habits broken are often replaced by another habit.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Jan 11, 2011, at 11:51 AM

Let me begin by saying that Eric has deleted far FEWER comments than I would have. Although we were generally in agreement on most things when I was a reporter for the paper, his patience with differing points of view was (and remains) far greater than my own.

The debate about what should or should not be said on this site will never be resolved. People of every political stripe believe they are being censored and their comments deleted. As Eric has said more than once, that alone convinces him that he's doing a pretty good job of being balanced and I wholeheartedly agree.

Keeping tabs on these comments and all the comments on all the other stories where they are permitted is an exhausting task. Please pardon the rather violent reference, but monitoring comments is a lot like playing the "Whack-a-mole" game at a carnival. You get one smacked down and another one pops up even faster and in even more offensive fashion. When I worked as a reporter, I helped monitor and I was stunned at the outrageous and vitriolic comments some people made - the cloak of anonymity seems to encourage people to be unbelievably mean-spirited and vindictive.

Now, having said all of that, I can point to one comment recently which I believe was handled in an offensive fashion. I'm referring to the comment made by Pat Nolan, in which he (in my opinion) rather rudely smacked down newsacross when he made reference to members of the tea party in a way that Nolan found offensive.

When I was a reporter, offensive comments were deleted without a public scolding of the "offender" and no reference was made to the deletion unless the person commenting asked about it. It's clear from his response that newsacross had no idea what Nolan was talking about - and frankly, I think there were a LOT of people who didn't. The reference newsacross used was, in fact, one that tea partiers themselves encouraged others to use, apparently without knowing of its negative association, so the scolding of newsacross was, again in my opinion, offensive and needlessly embarrassing to him. If an apology has not been made, I believe one is in order.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, Jan 11, 2011, at 10:28 AM

What would Earl Pitts say?

-- Posted by red dog on Tue, Jan 11, 2011, at 8:17 AM

for those who have an ear to hear

i know eric and i can say - emphatically - that he is far from "right wing" ... (no offense intended, eric) ... to say that he protects the right or conservatives is a statement based more on emotion and self-preservation than on fact.

that's not his job. some have been using all of the speak out sections to press their own agenda - and some have become somewhat "attack" oriented.

just mind your Ps and Qs - and get over it - or take your marbles and go home.

just sayin

zeke

-- Posted by zeke on Tue, Jan 11, 2011, at 8:09 AM

While many people posting on this hot topic say they have quoted facts, virtually no one has quoted the shooter or said they visited the shooter's video site to read and hear what he had to say. The aftermath of something this horrific is bound to be confusing. The choice is between going to primary sources or listening to others who have formed opinions without reading what Jared Lounghren had to say.

-- Posted by former editor on Tue, Jan 11, 2011, at 7:24 AM

Lets all calm down. Hey I was also deleted. I suspect for the scatter gun affect. Why not take another approach? Review your deleted comment, see how you can make it better, and repost.

The last thing to do is give up, take your ball, and go home.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Jan 10, 2011, at 11:43 PM

smokin cheetah,

I actually hope your right, but I can tell you that give it a week or two and you will no longer see a few of our lefties no longer on this site.

I think that Mr. Crump is purposely trying to incite them to posting something so he can kick them due to his own opposing views. Again I hope you are correct, but in regard to News and cheesehead I have seen much worse posts then theirs and others are still posting their biased opinions. Watch closely and you will see exactly what news is talking about when he calls crump the thought police.

-- Posted by miss october on Mon, Jan 10, 2011, at 11:12 PM

News and Cheesehead,

Come on guys calm down. I also agree with 100%, but when you guys make a post that some seem as biased there are many on here that resort to name calling and such and they know who they are.

They are just trying to save those who they agree with instead of having to kick them for name calling and such, and we need you guys here and if they truly are trying to block your posts because they dont agree then will surely look for a reason to kick you from this forum. So I truly appreciate the posts you two have, so please try to cool it.

-- Posted by miss october on Mon, Jan 10, 2011, at 10:04 PM

News,

I agree with you 100% because I posted several stories relating to the shootings that occurred with just facts and no name calling of sorts and they werent posted due to the editor.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Mon, Jan 10, 2011, at 9:42 PM

Its a sad day in America when an editor decides to cross that line of neutrality in an opinion forum and begins deleting comments not based on newspaper policies but rather because the editor disagrees with the comment.

Crump is not longer functioning as an editor but rather he seems to be attempting to function as the thought police.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jan 10, 2011, at 8:12 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
www.marshallnews.com/blogs/crump/entry/3...

Ha Ha Ha! Good fishing story. I believe I can picture the look on both your faces. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Jan 10, 2011, at 5:21 PM

Y'know Slater, I probably won't go rabbit hunting tomorrow. My dog is getting too fat to go down into the brush piles.

I am seriously thinking about fishing though. Opening day at Bennett Springs is coming up.

I went last year for a week-end with some buddies. Had a really good time. My wife packed for me so all I had to do was drive down and go fishing. She is such a good woman.

There was a small problem I told her about when I got home. I told her she hadn't packed me any pajamas.

She told me I would have found them if I had opened my tackle box.

-- Posted by red dog on Mon, Jan 10, 2011, at 4:50 PM

I vividly remember those days, Red Dog! Getting out in the cold and snow always helped to clear my mind of a few stale thoughts.

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Jan 10, 2011, at 2:52 PM

Eric, Speak Out must be the bane of your existence. I appreciate the difficulty of your task, and most certainly wouldn't want to be in your shoes. Keep up the good work!

-- Posted by born-n-raised on Mon, Jan 10, 2011, at 2:22 PM

Mommyto1 - Great article and I completely agree! How sad that instead of mourning those that were killed - including an innocent 9 year old girl - and praying for those that were injured, we instead engage in a round of point the fingers - at everyone EXCEPT the shooter, it seems.

Objectivity, Fairness, and Balance - Eric, you're doing an admirable but thankless job, trying to keep the nastiness to a minimum. Keep doing what you're doing, because you'll never make everyone happy all of the time, and some people will never be happy, but most of us are pleased with how you do your job!

-- Posted by koeller77 on Mon, Jan 10, 2011, at 1:05 PM

OK Ray. You can have the last word.

Thank you Mommyto1. The person that put all this together is very insightful. I wish I could string thoughts and words together like that.

-- Posted by red dog on Mon, Jan 10, 2011, at 10:04 AM

"Eric, you are doing the right thing and calling them as you see them. What more could be asked of an umpire?"

Balance.

-- Posted by Ray on Mon, Jan 10, 2011, at 10:04 AM

"Eric, you are doing the right thing and calling them as you see them. What more could be asked of an umpire?"

Fairness.

-- Posted by Ray on Mon, Jan 10, 2011, at 10:03 AM

"Eric, you are doing the right thing and calling them as you see them. What more could be asked of an umpire?"

Objectivity.

-- Posted by Ray on Mon, Jan 10, 2011, at 10:00 AM

Some of the posts here are critical of the newspaper editor. I equate it somewhat to a baseball game and arguing with the umpire.

When a manager/player gets into an argument with a baseball umpire, the argument isn't so much about that particular call. That is over and done with. The ump isn't going to change his mind. The argument is about trying to get an edge for the next call. This is an attempt to get the umpire to prove he isn't biased by being biased in your favor for the next close call.

Eric, you are doing the right thing and calling them as you see them. What more could be asked of an umpire?

-- Posted by red dog on Mon, Jan 10, 2011, at 9:58 AM

Hey Red Dog

Thought you might like to read this:

http://www.catholicvote.org/discuss/inde...

-- Posted by Mommyto1 on Mon, Jan 10, 2011, at 9:49 AM

"I guess its Ray thats has friends at this site as all his political post are found on the front page, yet others are removed."

Another personal attack permitted by MDN.

-- Posted by Ray on Mon, Jan 10, 2011, at 9:39 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
And I'm the target, but because I have the authority to remove comments, I generally allow criticism about how that's done.

Hey Slater. It's snowing. It's cold. Tomorrow, it will be time to go rabbit hunting.

-- Posted by red dog on Mon, Jan 10, 2011, at 9:31 AM

Yep, I refuted all of news across's biased comments, but if you go down the thread you can count and see he has far more of his comments left than mine, showing once again the bias of "The DEMOCRAT News." I post on a lot of news blogs and have to say this is a pattern that exists preponderantly at the "The DEMOCRAT News." Oh, and by the way, I'm a Journalism graduate.

-- Posted by Ray on Mon, Jan 10, 2011, at 9:16 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
www.marshallnews.com/blogs/crump/entry/3...

Red Dog, I'll tag along with you, if you don't mind.

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Jan 10, 2011, at 8:37 AM

Who was it that said to never let a good tragedy go to waste? ENOUGH ALREADY! Back off. Get a life. People are dead. People are hurt. The perpetrator is in custody. It's over. Deal with it.

-- Posted by red dog on Mon, Jan 10, 2011, at 8:16 AM

I guess its Ray thats has friends at this site as all his political post are found on the front page, yet others are removed.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Mon, Jan 10, 2011, at 8:15 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Quite a number of comments from all sides were removed this morning.

As I stated, he was responsible for his actions, plain and simple. A little more common sense, respect and human decency instead of picking sides and placing blame would do wonders for everyone, including public figures. Sarah Palin didn't cause this, but she didn't help society out in any way with cross hairs either.

-- Posted by hunterfisher on Mon, Jan 10, 2011, at 7:52 AM

This is what the shooter said about his motivations on his site:

http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10

Please ground opinions. Go to the source. (And don't be fooled by prank/parody sites.)

-- Posted by former editor on Mon, Jan 10, 2011, at 7:42 AM

On GMA just this morning, they've determined that the shooter acted ALONE.

-- Posted by tcn on Mon, Jan 10, 2011, at 7:25 AM

Nobody else is responsible for this "mans" actions any more than AC/DC was ever responsible for turning your kid toward the devil by listening to their music. It's a shame that the warning signs were not dealt with so this might have been avoided.

The thing that bothers me, is the fact a national figure or any public figure for that matter, would not have enough common sense or human decency in these times of school shootings, mall shootings and work place shootings to avoid using any graphics, references or slogans related to guns and violence. Ms. Palin should of had more common sense and respect for her fellow man than to use cross hairs and slogans such as "don't retreat, just reload" in reference to other Americans or current issues. I would hope one would think just a bit before going down that road. It's in very bad taste at the very least.

It's not about being right, left, blue, black, pink, Democrat, Republican, middle or anything else. It's about being a decent human and having some good old fashion common sense. This man was certainly responsible for his own actions, but whether this ever happened or not, Sarah Palin should have avoided using such violent innuendos as a public figure. Common sense, respect for your fellow man and human decency is all it boils down to my friends and that has no color or sides.

-- Posted by hunterfisher on Mon, Jan 10, 2011, at 7:25 AM

Cosa Nostra

Yeah that's it...I am a kid...lol...I wish.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jan 10, 2011, at 5:40 AM

"Perhaps you should have a read of Dr. Dr. Laurence Britt's "The 14 Characteristics of Fascism." It will help you understand what characteristics he found that all fascist nations such as Germany, Spain, Italy, and Chili shared in common, and it will help you understand what fascism is...if you read it."

And perhaps you should have read Friedrich A. Hayek, "The Socialist Roots of Naziism"

"The connection between socialism and nationalism in Germany was close from the beginning."

"From 1914 onward there arose from the ranks of Marxist socialism one teacher after another who led, not the conservatives and reactionaries, but the hard-working laborer and idealistic youth into the National Socialist fold. It was only thereafter that the tide of nationalist socialism attained major importance and rapidly grew into the Hitlerian doctrine."

-- Posted by Ray on Mon, Jan 10, 2011, at 3:08 AM

U Ray,

When he is talking about National Socialism he is referring to the National Socialist Workers Party -- the NAZIs who publically stated their full support for fascism often and proudly.

As to socialism...Hitler publically stated his hatred of socialists and socialism in almost every speech he gave, and he stated that he felt socialism was the greatest threat to the World lol lol lol...but nice try mate.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jan 10, 2011, at 2:49 AM

"Well Ray,

Here is the website of the Democratic Socialist Party...they don't look too evil to me mate...unless you think democracy is evil..."

No need, I stand my my comments. Did you even read them?

-- Posted by Ray on Mon, Jan 10, 2011, at 2:45 AM

Well Ray,

Here is the website of the Democratic Socialist Party...they don't look too evil to me mate...unless you think democracy is evil...

http://www.dsausa.org/dsa.html

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jan 10, 2011, at 2:44 AM

"Perhaps you should have a read of Dr. Dr. Laurence Britt's "The 14 Characteristics of Fascism." It will help you understand what characteristics he found that all fascist nations such as Germany, Spain, Italy, and Chili shared in common, and it will help you understand what fascism is...if you read it."

And perhaps you should have read Friedrich A. Hayek, "The Socialist Roots of Naziism"

"The connection between socialism and nationalism in Germany was close from the beginning."

"From 1914 onward there arose from the ranks of Marxist socialism one teacher after another who led, not the conservatives and reactionaries, but the hard-working laborer and idealistic youth into the National Socialist fold. It was only thereafter that the tide of nationalist socialism attained major importance and rapidly grew into the Hitlerian doctrine."

-- Posted by Ray on Mon, Jan 10, 2011, at 2:44 AM

"I wish he had done some nationalizing. I am a strong supporter of socialism and, I am proud to be an American Socialist. In fact, I believe Democratic Sociaism is the only economic system that can restore the fiscal strength of our Nation. Yes indeed, I wish he had done some serious nationalizing of corporate America... "

One of my poly sci teachers claimed to be a Social Democrat, but his ideas, without a doubt, appeared to be the most tyrannical and oppressive I've ever had the misfortune to witness. I didn't see much difference between his ideas and many of those used by Stalin, A.H., Mao, Castro, or Chavez.

-- Posted by Ray on Mon, Jan 10, 2011, at 2:21 AM

Ray

I don't utilize NAZI propaganda to define the characteristics of fascism...I look at their policies and activities.

Perhaps you should have a read of Dr. Dr. Laurence Britt's "The 14 Characteristics of Fascism." It will help you understand what characteristics he found that all fascist nations such as Germany, Spain, Italy, and Chili shared in common, and it will help you understand what fascism is...if you read it.

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasc...

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jan 10, 2011, at 2:16 AM

"No they weren't socialists mate."

Yes, mate they were Socialists. Massive funding for social programs from the National Socialist state that printed the money more than verifies that. And certainly, the National Socialists brought their social engineering (change) to many European countries, whether the majority of the people wanted that "change," or not.

-- Posted by Ray on Mon, Jan 10, 2011, at 2:10 AM

Uh Ray,

We all had family members who struggled in that war against the NAZIs and Japanese Imperialists.

My Uncle was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross and 2 bronze stars in that war. You will find his name and his medal awards inside the Courthouse on the Distinguished Veterans of Marshall Board...I believe its still on the 1st floor near the North Side door.

Some of us continue the struggle against fascism even today. But today our best weapon is the pen and not the bomb.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jan 10, 2011, at 12:54 AM

Hey Ray,

How many of those dead were killed by illegal American weapons sold to the Mexican banditos by Americans in violation of our laws and their laws?

If we want to end prohibition related deaths then the key is to end prohibition.

Leagalize it for adults and stop the sales of illegal weapons to the Mexican banditos and we will save lives and trillions of dollars.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jan 10, 2011, at 12:40 AM

tcn

Well don't worry to much about the speculation mate -- that boy will be happy to tell us who influenced or assisted him and what motivated him soon -- just as soon as the Federal Prosecutors take the death penalty off the table -- which they will in order to get him to talk.

Plea bargins are an interesting thing -- the defendent loses all 5th Ammendment protections as soon as he or she agrees to the plea bargin and answering all the prosecutor's questions is part of the plea bargin. That is when he will tell all.

I am so happy we got this one alive so we can learn the truth and not have to speculate anymore.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jan 10, 2011, at 12:36 AM

Reefer madness! Now why didn't I think of that.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Jan 10, 2011, at 12:03 AM

News,

I agree with you that if these murders were politically motivated this guy should be tried as a terrorist. The judge that was killed also had death threats to his family after his rulings that favored some illegal immigrants. Arizona has been a hotbead for politcal rhetoric of late and shouldn't surprise anyone if this is the case.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jan...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 11:27 PM

Link to what Jerad at to say about himself. It's gone viral since yesterday. Watch out for the fake/ prank sites that have been created in the past 24 hours. http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10

-- Posted by former editor on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 10:53 PM

Divergent Thinker,

It seems to me that former editor & I are simply trying to point out that there's another possible reason for this shooting besides political. We're saying a lot of the same things. Our "speculation" isn't hurting anyone.

-- Posted by tcn on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 10:46 PM

"However, there are ultra-right wing conservative commentators that did call for this Congresswoman to be targeted -- and with a bullseye at that -- for elimination. In addition, these same conservative commentators have called for people to take up arms in an effort to exact political changes they favor."

And what about the Democrats who used "targets" on Republican politicians running for office? Scroll down to the map of the U.S. http://tinyurl.com/23c4xtd

-- Posted by Ray on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 10:45 PM

A good day for this song. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdTOHVJWD...

Related comment on the political blog.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 10:40 PM

Look at this: Jerad Loughner's words.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10

I found this and social network information on him yesterday before some sites were blocked. This one is still up. In the meantime, many prank or parody sites have popped up, so don't believe everything someone posts. Believe me or not, this site was up and running right after the shooting yesterday. It had only a few views when I first saw it. It's gone viral now.

-- Posted by former editor on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 10:37 PM

Jason1969

No one is blaming the ultra-conservative wing of the Republican Party for this terrorist act.

However, there are ultra-right wing conservative commentators that did call for this Congresswoman to be targeted -- and with a bullseye at that -- for elimination. In addition, these same conservative commentators have called for people to take up arms in an effort to exact political changes they favor.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/01/rep-g...

http://www.facebook.com/notes/sarah-pali...

So there is another issue now -- Sedition -- which is not protected speech. Sedition is a crime. In fact, Just recently a chicago conservative radio commentator was found guilty and sentenced to prison for calling for the targeting of Federal Judges in Chicago and posting their home addresses on the net. He is currently serving a prison sentence.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime...

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 10:09 PM

marshall4ever

If he committed this act with the intention of forcing political change and had any assistance in the planning, then his act would be classified as a terrorist act under U.S. Code: TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 113B > § 2331

While its not an act of international terrorism, it does meet the defintion of domestic terrorism if his intent was to force political change or to intimidate the American people (either/or) by his act of assassination.

He may very well be brought up on terrorism charges and especially if it is discovered he was politically motivated and assisted in any way by another person.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/718/us...

http://www.csa.com/discoveryguides/homel...

http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/web...

It would not be the first time in the USA such domestic terrorism has occured. In fact, the FBI reports that between 1980 and 2000 alone there were 250 acts of terrorism.

http://www.cfr.org/publication/9236/mili...

Perhaps we only think its terrorism when its Muslims committing the act. I hope not, but I get the feeling there are a lot of folks out there that tend to think that way.

But trust me when I tell you Tim McVeigh was not a Muslim. -- Eric Rudolf was not a Muslim...ect.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 9:54 PM

The Sheriff on the Arizona shooting case believes that the public has been inflamed and that vitriolic rhetoric is to blame for the shootings.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/megyn-kelly-t...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 9:46 PM

With all do respect a political movement didn't order him to do this. His own evil insane thoughts did it his warp perception of reality did it. Timothy Mcveigh did the bombings in okc bc of the branch dividians in fact it happen on the anniversary. Now to hold the right wing or the T party responsible is wrong my friends Nazi germany blamed alot of things on the jews in order to justify mast killings stalin did mass murder in russia bc of evil thoughts again hold the individual responsible and don't hold a political movement that has a god given right to speak responsible for his motives. His warp perceptions was his motives.

-- Posted by Jason1969 on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 9:46 PM

Terrorism seems like a stretch. This was a crime. If it was terrorism, perhaps the President should unilaterally declare war on 20-somethings and invade Arizona. After all, I'm pretty sure they have WMDs in Arizona...

-- Posted by marshall4ever on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 9:29 PM

former editor

Are you saying the shooted did not know shooting the Congresswoman was wrong and a violation of the law and/or morally wrong?

Mental illness is only an excuse when a court has decided that the defendant was insane at the time the crime was committed. In most States, the defendant must prove he was 1.) unable to tell the difference between right and wrong, 2.) knew the difference between right and wrong but was unable to resist the complusion to commit the crime.

Given the extensive planning in this terrorist attack -- as he clearly planned to do it before he got there, knew who was going to be there and when they would be there, called out the victims he came to shoot by name as he shot them, and immediately clammed up as soon as he was arrested, indicate he knew what he was doing was a crime and was wrong.

I don't think the insanity mitigation will apply here nor do I think that is how this case will be resolved. Such legal mitigation such as an insanity argument are rarely granted and then only in cases where the evidence of insanity is overwhelming and confirmed by a whole slew of court appointed psychiatrists.

No, I think he will plead guilty in return for a life sentence and then he will fill in all the blanks and end all the speculation.

This should be very interesting indeed.

Thank goodness we got this one alive so we can learn the truth behind this terrorist attack and what motivated him and possible co-conspirators to attack this particular Congresswoman at this particular time.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 9:13 PM

If that is the case Eric, I suggest you censor tcn and former editor as they have indulged in far more non factual speculation than I ever did

-- Posted by Divergent Thinker on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 9:04 PM

tcn

Please provide the link to the mental health evaluation of the shooter done by a licensed psychiatric physician. I would love to read it.

As I have said, its a good thing we got this shooter alive so we can learn firsthand why he decided to assissinate this particular Congresswoman at this particular time. He will get his plea deal -- death penalty off the table -- and then he will tell all.

In addition, it will be interesting to learn what his co-conspirators, if any exist at all, that the police are still seeking, have to say about their motivations behind this terrorist attack.

Clearly, there is far more beneath this iceberg than the eye reveals.

In addition, there will be questions of other crimes related to this terrorist attack that may have been committed by some other people including possible sedition charges against some well known mediea personalities that called for the targeting of specific Congressmen which would constitute a call for violent action against the Government of the United States of America.

Yes I think we will learn a lot more facts just as soon as he gets his plea deal. We are most fortunate to get this one alive.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 9:00 PM

News Across: Maybe you missed it, but one of Jared's teachers has been vocal on the news today. The teacher reported him. Jared was kicked out of school until he came back with a clean bill of mental health or treatment protocol. Only a tiny percentage of people with mental illness have a dangerous form of paranoid schizophrenia, but they too often slip through the cracks, recognized only when they do something outrageous and wind up in regional or national news. We've got to get better at helping people like this.

-- Posted by former editor on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 8:58 PM

news across,

"Interestingly enough, the Congresswoman this assassin targeted had a long history of supporting publically funded mental health facilities and easily accessible mental health treatment."

Please research schizophrenia. If at any time anyone called Jared Loughren "crazy", he could have misinterpreted her support of mental health as a direct persecution.

-- Posted by tcn on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 8:55 PM

news across,

This probably was politically motivated but not in the way everyone seems to think. MANY schizophrenics are very interested (to the point of obsession) in politics. They truly believe that they have all the answers to the world's problems & could be president if given half a chance. Some believe that the voices are political figures speaking directly to them. I seriously doubt this was random, but I do doubt that he intended to shoot & kill a 9 year old girl.

The sad fact is that 1 out of 3 people have some form of mental illness. That includes your friends & neighbors. Unfortunately there is still such a stigma attached to mental illness that most people are embarrassed to admit they have an illness & so many more just don't know the facts.

-- Posted by tcn on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 8:44 PM

former editor

Yeah look I am not going to start blaming teachers for this terrorist act.

Instead, I will wait to see what the assassin has to say about his motivations...thank goodness we got this one alive so we can eventually find out if it was the random act of a lone gunman or a well organized conspiarcy to eliminate a Congresswoman who had been previously targeted by some well known mainstream, news media commentators.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 8:39 PM

Only psychiatrists and Ph.D. psychologists can make official diagnosis of serious mental illness. However, many others are responsible to notice differences and report problems so that individuals who may hurt themselves or others can be referred to the "designated diagnosers". Teachers are among those responsible for observing and reporting, and sometimes they have training in what to look for. In Jared Loughren's case, referral failed.

-- Posted by former editor on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 8:27 PM

former editor

I do agree that mental health is as important as physical health. I have consistantly opposed the drastic cuts the Federal Government, State Governments, and local Governments have made that have made it difficult for people with mental illnesses who are not insured for such treatment to receive said treatment.

Interestingly enough, the Congresswoman this assassin targeted had a long history of supporting publically funded mental health facilities and easily accessible mental health treatment.

Never-the-less, the facts in this case indicate it was not a random shooting but rather well planned in advance and for political reasons.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 8:25 PM

Please note:

www.marshallnews.com/blogs/crump/entry/3...

Speculation is a normal reaction to a case like this, but I would urge everyone to avoid innuendo and accusations unsupported by facts, which are still sparse.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 8:22 PM

former editor

Neither you nor I are qualified to make mental health evaluations of this individual or any other.

Let's not speculate. Let's rely on the facts of the investigation when that investigation is complete.

I believe we will learn there was far more to this than just some mentally disturbed kid doing a random shooting.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 8:11 PM

tcn

Yes it is sad.

However, jumping to conclusions about his mental health and then assuming he must have been a lone shooter is not helpful in getting to the bottom of this.

I trust law enforcement will fully investigate this terrorist attack. I think our speculation is just speculation. I will be anxious to hear what the shooter tells the prosecutors after he gets his plea deal.

Thank goodness we got this assassin alive so we can find out who else, in anyone, was involved and how much influence some well known political commentators in the mainstream media had on his decision to commit this criminal act.

Sure he is a little nuts...most people I have met in life seem to be a little bit nuts... mental illness may be present but that does not mean he didn't do this for political reasons.

While I agree we cannot yet reach full conclusions and we won't be able to do that until the police investigation is complete, I must point out that a lot of folks seem pretty quick to write this attack off as "some crazy lone gunman shooting at random targets -- and this despite the facts in the case that seem to indicate the opposite conclusion -- that it was a well planned attacked and motivated by political concerns -- real or imagined -- and planned well in advance.

I look forward to hearing what the shooter has to say when he gets his plea deal -- and he will get it because he won't talk till he does.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 8:08 PM

Jared Longhren will have his mental evaluation after the charge formalities. One could suspect schizophrenia for several reasons including his behavior and changes in his behavior observed by classmates and friends. He is also typical age for evidence of onset. You are internet literate. Read his rants, watch his videos. Compare with the increasing information on the nature of schizophrenia including scans showing changes in neural anatomy. Compare with classic known cases. Most people with a mental problem don't have this kind of extreme potential. But if we don't taken mental health seriously, we add to problems.

-- Posted by former editor on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 8:02 PM

Oh & btw, having a mental illness doesn't mean someone is stupid. Just the opposite in many cases.

-- Posted by tcn on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 8:00 PM

news across, it's VERY apparent that you've never knowingly talked to a schizphrenic!

-- Posted by tcn on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 7:57 PM

news across, have you watched the press conference or anything else on this kid? The police were "well aquainted" with him because of other threats he's made. It's also been reported that he was kicked out of college because of his postings on you tube. The college wasn't going to let him return until he had a psychiatric evaluation. It sure sounds to me like this kid fell through the cracks , so to speak. I have to agree with former editor that this kid sounds like a paranoid schizophrenic. If this is the case, more than likely one of his parents probably is too.

It's so sad that this happened at all. My heart goes out to ALL involved.

-- Posted by tcn on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 7:54 PM

Fomer Editor

I believe we shall know all the facts when the shooter gets his deal and then must answer all the proscutors questions.

So far it appears to have been a carefully planned terrorist attack. I hope that is not the case but we cannot ignore the facts that indicate others may have intentionally or untentionally motivated the shooter to commit this terrorist attack.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 7:53 PM

former editor

Please provide your source (please include the link) to the shooter's mental evaluation by a licensed psychiatrist.

I would love to read it.

Also, since the authorities are still investigating and believe there may have been other co-conspirators involved, did they catch his mental illness too?

To write him off as a lone assassin who just randomly decided to kill that particular person on that particular day just does not seem to be supported by the facts.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 7:49 PM

News Across: If you click on the New York Times link you posted, you will notice the Jan. 8 dateline. Paranoid schizophrenics have accomplices - the voices in their heads. Have you read this young man's rants? Have you read Ted the Unabomber? Ted fired his attorneys because they wanted him to plead insanity. He believed himself sane and the rest of the world crazy.

-- Posted by former editor on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 7:47 PM

former editor

Most people I have known in life have mental problems...that is no excuse to commit an assassination.

For a crazy boy he sure seemed to know what he was doing.

He knew exactly who he wanted to shoot, he called them out by name as he shot them, he knew where they would be and when they would be there. Most telling of all is the fact that he did exactly what any criminal defendant should do in that situation...he immediately invoked his 5th Ammendment right to remain silent.

This guy -- or someone else -- planned this assassination attempt carefully and well in advance.

Sure he has a screw loose...most terrorists do -- never-the-less, as he New York Times article points out, there are clear indications of a political motivation behind the attack.

The facts indicate this was a well planned assassination attempt -- and I believe after he gets his plea deal, he will be ratting out his co-conspirators. You may be surprised at what you will learn at that time.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 7:43 PM

Of course, a paranoid schizophrenic can commit an act that qualifies as terror if the voices in his head tell him that's the sensible thing to do. The potential to kill others is why this type of mental illness deserves to be treated much more seriously.

-- Posted by former editor on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 7:42 PM

former editor

The article is dated January 09. This is the most recent article on the terrorist act in Arizona that I know of right now. Yes a taxi driver was cleared but they still have good reason to believe that others may have been involved and are continuing the search for the co-conspirators.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 7:36 PM

U.S. Code: TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 113B > § 2331

Terrorism Defined by Law:

§ 2331. Definitions:

"(A) involve violent acts or acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State, or that would be a criminal violation if committed within the jurisdiction of the United States or of any State;

(B) appear to be intended--

(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;

(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or

(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping;..."

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/718/us...

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 7:32 PM

News Across: the New York Times article you cited was dated/written yesterday. The "person of interest" was a taxi driver who has been cleared. The motivations a paranoid schizophrenic needs are provided by the voices in his head. The young man's postings (have you read them?) identify him as someone with mental problems.

-- Posted by former editor on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 7:21 PM

"In Attack's Wake, Political Repercussions"

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/us/pol...

According to this report in the New York Times, dated January 9, 2011, 11:40 PM, the authorities are still searching for others they believe were involved in a conspiracy to commit this assassination attempt. Also, according to this report, there is a lot more information coming out now as to his motivations -- and yes, according to the New York Times, the motivations of the conspirators were poliical.

I think we will learn a great deal more about who was involved in this terrorist attack in the coming weeks. After the shooter gets his plea deal (no death penalty), he will then have to answer all questions from the prosecutor and I get the feeling we will learn there was a lot more to this terrorist attack than just some crazy kid deciding he was going to commit a random murder.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 7:13 PM

Andrea Yates drown her children. Ted the Unabomber sent explosive mail. Arizona reduced mental health funding last year. Jared Loughner is likely paranoid schizophrenic, plus a drug user. Some types of psychosis are excuse or reason enough to harm self and others. The focus needs to be on the mentally ill getting help, not on politics.

-- Posted by former editor on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 7:06 PM

In regards to the terrorist attack on Congresswoman Gifford, as long as there are well known personalities calling for the assassination of people on political, religious, and/or "moral" grounds, there will be others ready to head the call and commit terrorist acts.

Yes its sad, and its also true.

I guess we should get used to it because I think there will be many more terrorist acts in our Nation in the future. I bet this attempted asssassination will be the first of many to come.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 6:54 PM

That's what I'm saying, Ray. The guy obviously has an unsound mind, and any number of things can push someone like that over the edge.

I seriously doubt we'll know the true reason(s) for his behavior, but certainly it's up to our society to restrain itself from providing the ingredients which provoke those who teeter on the brink.

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 5:10 PM

"Jason, you may be right, but I'm not aware of a single instance where someone attempting to commit mass murder/mayhem does so without a motive."

Motive "yes," but not necessarily "sane motive." From the little that is available to read about Loughner, there appears to be a growing profile, pointing to an unstable personality like that of a John Hinckley, or a David Chapman, type.

Hinckley tried to kill Ronald Reagan (and others) and Chapman did kill John Lennon. Hinckley had an obsession with Jodie Foster and wanted to impress her, although she didn't even know him. How crazy is that? Chapman's mental illness appeared even more convoluted and involved some irrational impressions he got from reading "Catcher in the Rye."

At the "Son of Sam" level of mass murder, David Berkowitz believed his neighbor's dogs were demons, sending him messages to kill. I'd say that's definitely not a "sane motive."

I suspect the coming days will put an end to much of the wild speculation, that's presently flying around. Some of that speculation is quite vicious and highly political, IMO.

While some political motivations may eventually be laid at Loughner's doorstep, the very real possibility exists that he may be little more than another garden variety crazy person with crazy perceptions about a prominent person. Lougner's sanity, or insanity, may become as much a focus as any possible "motivations," IMO.

-- Posted by Ray on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 2:12 PM

Jason, you may be right, but I'm not aware of a single instance where someone attempting to commit mass murder/mayhem does so without a motive.

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 1:22 PM

Amen to that, BNB! Unless Clyburn's words are merely more rhetoric.

Anymore, how does anyone know when the truth is being spoken? That's the dilemma for me.

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 1:16 PM

The monster that killed and shot all those people including a fed judge that was originally appointed to the position by Bush Sr. Republican (the congress woman that was shot was a dem) the monster didn't represent any political view. He alone is responsible for this not a political movement..Here is the problem with us today we are always looking to blame others on things instead of holding people responsible... I get tired of this we are responsible for or own actions and certainly no political view told him to kill...

-- Posted by Jason1969 on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 11:03 AM

wow

-- Posted by wheresthelove on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 10:29 AM

I join Rep. Clyburn http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/09...

-- Posted by broke-n-busted on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 10:29 AM

News

I'm afraid I have to agree. The "t-bagger" this and "t-bagger" that is a little much and it completey feeds right into the horrible politcal climtate in this country right now. You're better than that. I agree with you most times and I won't be at all surprised if we find out this tragedy was indeed a misguided politcal statement. We need to dial back the rhetoric.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 9:43 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
I agree:

www.marshallnews.com/blogs/crump/entry/3...

News - it is your comments specifically. Do you really think your derogatory term for tea partiers is acceptable for the front page of a family publication? And it has nothing to do with discussing a crime.

-- Posted by Pat Nolan on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 9:15 AM

Pat Nolan

The Political Speakout is for discussing politics.

This is an ongoing story of a crime -- and act of terrorism. Its not about politics.

As to words you maybe misinterpreting, I looked carefully for the words containing sexual content and I could not see them. Perhaps you are reading a word and attaching a meaning to it that is not there and is incorrect.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 9:05 AM

You guys should take this to the political blog where only those seeking it have to read it. I, for one, am extremely tired of having to read offensive sexual acts being used to describe political groups on the front page of the paper.

-- Posted by Pat Nolan on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 8:48 AM

"Jared Lee Loughner: Meet Rep. Giffords' Alleged Shooter"

http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/01/jare...

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 2:39 AM

"Giffords warned in March of 'consequences' to Palin's violent rhetoric"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/01/giffo...

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/01/rep-g...

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id...

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jan 9, 2011, at 1:52 AM

You two are the ones labeling people and jumping to break things down along party lines. Who are you to assume anything about anyone? Aren't you doing the very thing you are accusing me of?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Jan 8, 2011, at 11:55 PM

You libs. might want to be careful with your conspiracy theories. Rep. Giffords is about as conservative a Democrat as you will find.

-- Posted by Bcat on Sat, Jan 8, 2011, at 11:38 PM

Pot,...meet kettle.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Jan 8, 2011, at 11:35 PM

wtf.... and YOU know that by painting this guy with a brush of YOUR opinion without full knowledge of any statement from the guy that ALL you are doing is foolish and unbiased, therefore unintelligent attempts at trying to get in an attack against a political party that you disagree with.

Tis sad tis sad but tis typical of how you liberals ALWAYS behave... failure of substance of your beliefs and opinions allow you to resort quickly to name calling and sad attempts to associate any and every incident to the Republican party.....

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jan 8, 2011, at 11:11 PM

xray,

Are you aware of the fires that have been stoked in Arizona prior to this tragedy? If the shoe fits wear it. This person or persons are nothing more than a homegrown terrorists.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Jan 8, 2011, at 10:46 PM

OMG... are you really going to start up this quick with "blame the republicans and right wing nuts" when the people's bodies are not even cold and there are people whose families have been torn apart? THAT is the exact reason most people cannot stand the left.... rush to blame, call people racist and any other name even before all the facts are in AND even worse, at the MOST inappropriate time!

Wow you liberal people never cease to amaze me!

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jan 8, 2011, at 8:28 PM

Correction: I said the shooter's Facebook page but I meant to say his MySpace page.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Jan 8, 2011, at 8:27 PM

What the f

There is still a lot of information coming out about the alleged shooter. His politics seem to swing from the left to the right and he apparently hates hispanics according to some of the sources I have been hearing from. Also, there are reports that he was motivated by a concern for a loss of American property rights. That has a familiar ring to it by the way...the 'baggers share that concern. Also, on his facebook page he states that Adolph Hitler's "Mein Kampf" is his favorite book. In addition, the police report they are seeking another person who they believe was involved in the shootings.

But what I want to know are 2 things...is the alleged shooter tied to the 'baggers and was he in any way motivated by Sarah Palin's "hit-list" of Democrats and her thinly veiled calls to armed violence against those Democrats? Is that where the idea originated for him? If so, then this would raise some serious concerns.

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/01/08/...

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/01/rep-g...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40980334/ns/...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40978517/ns/...

http://www.facebook.com/notes/sarah-pali...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/24...

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Jan 8, 2011, at 8:07 PM

A child was also killed. It will be interesting to find out his motivation. For a 22 year old kid to do that and not take his own life like so many other gunmen seem to do, it makes me think he may have had an agenda.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Jan 8, 2011, at 5:35 PM

"Rep. Giffords on so-called hit list of Dems 'targeted' by Sarah Palin"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/01/rep-g...

Are accessory before the fact charges against Palin in order here?

I think maybe yes. This may get pretty interesting.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Jan 8, 2011, at 5:11 PM

Congresswoman shot at Arizona safeway store.

This is horrible.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Jan 8, 2011, at 2:41 PM

Hey Ray,

This is a 60 minutes clip with the guy who interrogated Saddam and confirmend there were NO WMD'S. Why would the Buss admin feel the need to lie, out CIA operatives and the like to justify that war?

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=3...

Again, I'll take a money spending president over a war criminal anyday.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Jan 8, 2011, at 2:33 PM

"Always money for bullets, never money for bedpans."

Take a good look at this spending chart. http://tinyurl.com/2cfnh8z After Obama's reckless, record spending, "always" may be a very, very poor choice of words on your part.

-- Posted by Ray on Sat, Jan 8, 2011, at 2:19 PM

Restore a 1854 church into a Culture Center/ MuseumWaverly Citizens for Progress. Currently has 318 votes. Voting ends Jan 31. Vote on line or text, I believe I'll try both...lol.

-- Posted by wheresthelove on Sat, Jan 8, 2011, at 1:51 PM

How about some positive vibes here? Check this link out and VOTE!! Waverly Mo in a contest with Pepsi. Sounds like a good idea and I wish them luck with this!! http://pep.si/g6A9am

-- Posted by wheresthelove on Sat, Jan 8, 2011, at 1:47 PM

Hey you all. Grow up. Quit sniping. There ain't no right. There ain't no wrong. It's all somewhere in the middle. Quit criticizing and start fixing. Words ain't gonna do it. Action always talks loudest.

-- Posted by red dog on Sat, Jan 8, 2011, at 11:19 AM

Ray,

Waging war for profit. Where does that fit in to the consitution?

As for president Obama, you said this:

"Obama has greatly expanded drone strikes into Pakistan, trying to deny those people a safe haven there."

Isn't that what you want him to do? You can rail all you want about Obamacare but it's really reform for insurance companies. Someone had to do something. Now it seems as if you would have it repealed at even more costs to the taxpayer. You wanna blame someone? Blame the insurance companies and not the guy that is trying to get them to do not only what they're supposed to do but what is right. Meanwhile, the state of Arizona is fine with letting a small fraction of thier population (2 already) die because they can't afford life saving transplants and those who do have insurance are being denied. If that where Missouri, as a Missouri taxpayer I would be happy to help them. It took a republican from Illinois to look at the Arizona budget and within days found 26 places in thier budget where they could get the measly 4 million to save these people.

What's next, don't help the lefties, only the righties? Or vice versa? By all means let's politicize healthcare and punch the hippie.

When it comes to our tax money what is more important than the health and well being of our fellow man? Everything else is virtually meaningless by comparison. As a tax payer, Ray, if you needed life saving treatment I would have no problem with my tax money helping you out. No questions asked. But then again maybe I would want to deny you because you had the nerve to get sick. Maybe I thought you didn't work hard enough or maybe I just didn't like your politics. That may sound harsh but it is the reality we are dealing with these days.

Always money for bullets, never money for bedpans. Have a nice day, Ray.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Jan 8, 2011, at 10:28 AM

"How so Ray? Be specific."

Obamacare, the Interstate commerce clause cannot be used to make people buy health insurance.

Yes, to answer another posters comment/question. It is next to impossible to cogently discuss issues with the incessant abuse of the left engaging in Allinsky style attacks, instead of standard debating. But that's the lefts modus operandi. That's how their party leaders have framed the rules of debate, aka Rules for Radicals: A Pragmatic Primer for Realistic Radicals http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rules_for_R... Allinsky was a "comminity organizer." Let's see, do we know any other prominent politian(s) who were "community organizers" who are bringing their tactics into our social institutions? http://tinyurl.com/69z2vs

http://tinyurl.com/3222otg

Sadly, the end reality is that the American people are about to get hit with higher taxes, due largely to the highest spending in the history of America by any President - Obama.

-- Posted by Ray on Sat, Jan 8, 2011, at 9:12 AM

Nope. That's the fun. That's why we all come here isn't it?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Jan 7, 2011, at 11:45 PM

Hasn't the time of dramatic hyperbole passed yet? Be reasonable. Statements like 'criminal in the Whitehouse...' and 'Christian soldier...' have no purpose or point, aside from trying to elicit a similar response.

If more people would take a minute to realize it, then we might actually accomplish something good.

It is no wonder that our system is in the state that it is when these are our voices of reason. I wonder how long people will bicker in these types of forums before they realize that it isn't going to change anybody's mind. Ever.

If you want to influence a person's way of thinking, don't tell them how they're wrong. Tell them why, in your opinion, you're right. This way you have at least given them new information, rather than just telling them their wrong. They can agree or disagree.

Besides, we just been picking between the lesser of the evils for years. Nobody really worth voting for would associate themselves with our political system the way it is right now. Look at what it has become- how many ads did you see during this last election that weren't just negative ads about an opponent?

I have my own theory as to why that is- because we let it work! When our discussions on these topics deteriorate to this state, we cannot expect them to behave any differently. They're representing us, after all. If we want them to be reasonable, then we need to be as well.

-- Posted by thebirdman on Fri, Jan 7, 2011, at 11:27 PM

KILL 'EM all, Ray! Let's KILL 'EM all! Yee Haw! We gonna KILL 'EM all! Onward Christian Soldier, marching as to war, with the cross of Jesus, we gonna KILL 'EM all!

There is that better?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Jan 7, 2011, at 9:37 PM

How so Ray? Be specific. Is that all you got?

C'mon Ray. Every problem we ever had is Obama'a fault right? Typical.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Jan 7, 2011, at 9:20 PM

"Iraq is not my enemy but George Bush and Dick Cheney are nothing more than war criminals.Period."

The only criminal in the White House in the past decade is Obama who continually finds new ways to trample our Constitution, the law of the land.

-- Posted by Ray on Fri, Jan 7, 2011, at 8:31 PM

Iraq did have components for Nukes (see link below). Best available intelligence indicated the need to go in and it's certainly possible some Iraqi WMD's are in Syria. You may also recall Sadaam invaded Kuwait once upon a time and was not above doing further harm to his neighbors, including Saudi Arabia. You may nbot like oil, but it is a fact of life. Furthermore, the invasion led to Libya giving up it's active Nuke bomb program that used Iraqi scientists. Of course, you probably don't count those WMD's, and of course those nukes would have never made it to Iraq. :-/ Sadaam Hussein, Udai and Kusai are no longer in power and/or spreading terror, but even more significantly, Iran now exists between Iraq and Afghanistan. We will never be at peace with those terrorists as long as we have not converted, or are alive. That's been there historical modus operandi.

http://tinyurl.com/285sefn

"The opposition really needs to get its story straight. The president cannot be taken to task for inventing the Iraqi WMD threat, and simultaneously disparaged for not securing Saddam's dangerous WMD-related materials."

"Wow--nuclear-weapon components were in Iraq? Shouldn't the headline be, "Saddam Had 'Em?""

-- Posted by Ray on Fri, Jan 7, 2011, at 8:28 PM

One thing that hasn't changed from the time of the Vietnam war, is that our military men and women serving in harms way can depend on getting a knife in the back (figuratively speaking) from the left as the left undermines their work, thereby aiding and supporting the enemy. The only difference is that now the left does it with a smile. When I was in they openly spit in our faces.

-- Posted by Ray on Fri, Jan 7, 2011, at 8:11 PM

What the f....

Dont you remember the surge in Iraq helped us get rid of all those terrorists and it helped us find the"WMD's" right where they said they were all along. Those are the facts if I remember correctly regardless whereever they come from.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Fri, Jan 7, 2011, at 8:09 PM

Ray said,

"That's the same thing that the lefties said before the surge was applied in Iraq and it worked."

Worked in Iraq? So it doesn't bother you that we had NO RIGHT to be there in the first place? I have no problem with our military and as a matter of fact I am extremely proud of them. That being said I do have a problem with the guy who sent our young folks into harms way based on outright lies and for the sole purpose of collaborators like Haliburton and corporate America to make billions of dollars from it.

Thousands of our kids have been killed and maimed, not to mention untold thousands of Iraqi's and for what? For what Ray?

Iraq is not my enemy but George Bush and Dick Cheney are nothing more than war criminals.Period.

They are the ones who have done a disservice to our military.

Who cares about the fact the we illegally waged a war based on the treasonous acts of a handful of profiteers. Go ahead and wrap yourself in the flag and stick your head in the sand, as for me I'll continue see things for what they are. This isn't some John Wayne movie Ray.This is real and our children are dying because of it. If you cared as much about our military as you would lead us to believe, then you would be as upset as I am when they are used as disposable actions figures in the quest for profit.

If you are a vietnam vet as you suggest then you should be more upset than anybody about the careless usage of our military. In your day it was the Gulf of Tonkin. They used you too Ray.

Killing kids for fun and profit, the story of corporate America.

What do you reckon Bush and Cheney are doing as you read this? What ever it is I'll bet they're doing it on a huge pile of money.

So you'll forgive me if I don't buy in to your hyper-patriotic, single minded and overly simplistic way of looking at things. This is more important than left vs. right.

I'll take a president who spends money any day of the week and twice on sunday over one that kills our kids soley for profit.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Jan 7, 2011, at 6:25 PM

"We can throw bullets, bombs and the lives of our kids at it, but it will change nothing. At some point we need to accept that fact and move on."

That's the same thing that the lefties said before the surge was applied in Iraq and it worked. The left is the biggest sell out of the lives of our military personnel. I saw first hand how that works, when LBJ acquiesced to war protesters back home with one of his "cease fires." Our casualties and deaths doubled. Obviously, the enemy appreciated the aid & comfort offered then by the lefties as I'm sure they do now.

-- Posted by Ray on Fri, Jan 7, 2011, at 5:05 PM

Ray,

It seems to me that you are the one doing all the political sniping when someone gives their opinion that you dont like. There are facts which you might not hear on Fox news, but just because you don't agree doesnt mean they they are always politcally biased.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Fri, Jan 7, 2011, at 5:00 PM

OKR,

The weather has been fairly nice here this week so far, but snow flurries started today after lunch. The weekend and into next week looks frigid. How are things there?

-- Posted by Philemon on Fri, Jan 7, 2011, at 2:15 PM

Ray,

I think you are absolutely right. It is a time honored tradition and there is no way the we can ever change that. We can throw bullets, bombs and the lives of our kids at it, but it will change nothing. At some point we need to accept that fact and move on.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Jan 7, 2011, at 2:02 PM

"Ray, can you really tell me you wouldn't do the same if a forign army (who at one time protected you)invaded our country, threw out the govt., totally disrespected your time honored traditions,"

That statement is one of the most ill informed assertions I've read in a long time. Time honored traditions? Are you serious? What, making war against other tribes, murdering, pillaging, etc., and harboring terrorists like Osama Bin Laden? What, denying all women education, voting rights, etc., and making them walk around under Burkas? What, ritualized rape as punishment for imagined sexual misbehavior by women? Afghanistan has a time honored tradition of having a "war of the month" club, executing women for virtually nothing, forcing boys into warfare, etc. and qualify as one of the most barbaric countries on earth. What, a tradition that supported the terrorism that killed more than 3,000 Americans in a day?

-- Posted by Ray on Fri, Jan 7, 2011, at 1:30 PM

"Ray if you want to debate this issue lets take it to the political blog."

You want to take the discussion to the political blog? Here's a tip, "Keep it there in the first place, along with the political sniping at others."

-- Posted by Ray on Fri, Jan 7, 2011, at 10:47 AM

I didn't mean to stir you up Ray. I hope tomorrow will be a better day for you.

Let's get back on appropriate topic. What's the weather like there today old buddy?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Jan 7, 2011, at 10:46 AM

My my parents once told me of a forign war on which the United States wasted heaps of money and countless souls in the name of...... nobody really knew. they said that it was an aweful lesson that we should never forget. Have we learned nothing from our past?

"there is no instance of any nation benefiting from prolonged warfare" -Sun Tzu

Ray, can you really tell me you wouldn't do the same if a forign army (who at one time protected you)invaded our country, threw out the govt., totally disrespected your time honored traditions, and occaisionally dragged off a couple of your neighbors for "questioning"? I thought not.

let us not forget how the taliban came to power in Afganistan.

-- Posted by BigFatGuy on Fri, Jan 7, 2011, at 8:32 AM

Actually Ray, most lefties, righties, and those in between general try to follow the rules and meet in the proper forum. When minor strays start turning major, regulars tend to try to get back on the right track.

Actually from what I've observed, most of those who post there would rather the conversation be here, where it would be seen more, but those who post here regularly would rather not see the usual political banter posted over there.

-- Posted by Philemon on Fri, Jan 7, 2011, at 7:37 AM

Lefties come to this main blog, snipe at conservatives, then try to lure them into the political blog. Even "Restrepo" points out the U.S. mission in Afghanistan. "...as the soldiers painfully push back the Taliban. Written by Sundance Film Festival" "Resptrepo" mentions "the foreign fighters (terrorists). I consider the Taliban "ilk" of Al Quaeda." Taliban, Al Quaeda, Jihadies and foreign fighters cross the Pakistan border, snipe at U.S. forces and their allies, then flee back across the border into Pakistan.

-- Posted by Ray on Fri, Jan 7, 2011, at 7:11 AM

The terrorists are not in Afghanistan. They are in several other countries. I ask again why are we in Afghanistan?

Ray if you want to debate this issue lets take it to the political blog.

I post short reminders of the continued loss of life, and limb of our service personell on this blog because we as a nation are largely ignoring the inconvenient truth of their continuing sacrifice.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Jan 6, 2011, at 10:33 PM

Gas price in Elizabethtown, KY yesterday at 5pm $3.19 a gallon.

-- Posted by litlmissme on Thu, Jan 6, 2011, at 7:00 PM

Why are we in Afghanistan? The same reason we went into Afghanistan, "To deny Al Quaeda terrorists, and their ilk, a safe haven from which to plan attacks on the U.S." Remember 9/11? Obama has greatly expanded drone strikes into Pakistan, trying to deny those people a safe haven there.

-- Posted by Ray on Thu, Jan 6, 2011, at 5:04 PM

I was just reading the old article link about the Stream Team. Is there a local Stream Team one could join?

-- Posted by wheresthelove on Thu, Jan 6, 2011, at 10:55 AM

Thank you! I'm transplanted so my time in Marshall is very limited, but out west local government is taking this wasteful spending bull by the horns. The new 'strip', the YMCA, and Indian Foothills Park are Wonderful! Keep it up Marshall!

-- Posted by ladyjustice on Thu, Jan 6, 2011, at 10:33 AM

How come in times of economic struggle we still find the money to spray paint fish on the curb and drive around big trucks for days to hang tacky xmas decorations. Is there anyway for an ex local resident to check the costs of these projects? I wonder if the 'no dumping' fishies have ever stopped a would be dumper?

-- Posted by ladyjustice on Thu, Jan 6, 2011, at 8:56 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Last I heard, the storm sewer messages were applied by volunteers.

www.marshallnews.com/story/1247243.html

I'll check with city officials to see whether that's still the case.

Our children, our brothers, our sisters, are still dying in Afghanistan, and no one can really tell us why. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/doug-bando...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Jan 6, 2011, at 12:01 AM

What happened to my post? I never read any term or condition that disallowed rooting for the home football team. sheeesh.

-- Posted by ladyjustice on Wed, Jan 5, 2011, at 4:36 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Too many S's. I got reports it was messing with some folks' page display. That's all.

As in any small business all the big profits are made prior to the local place. As noted the oil companies are making the money not local owners. Just check corporate tax returns if you don't believe me.

I have to wonder if counties/areas are governed by distributor? I mean if I own a station and I have to buy from distributor A and Joe Blow in a surrounding town can buy from distributor B, if B's price is lower than A's that has nothing to do with the local guy. So you're preaching to the wrong group of people.

Like Phil said, it boils down to greed and look who's pocketing from the big oil companies...the politicians. Why not keep prices high so their pockets continue to get fat while Joe American can't afford to live.

-- Posted by Scarpetta on Wed, Jan 5, 2011, at 2:09 PM

Well put daisygurl22. I don't think I've had a post deleted by the editor of this forum yet, at least not that I've noticed. I have deleted several myself prior to posting that I'm sure wouldn't have made the cut. Thanks for keeping me from going through that process now.

-- Posted by Philemon on Wed, Jan 5, 2011, at 11:31 AM

Ambsun,

One more thing, I don't live in Marshall but I have family that does and that is where my concern is. Last I knew this was a public forum where one could have a discussion on whatever topic we so wanted. If you don't like it, don't read it. Period.

-- Posted by daisygurl22 on Wed, Jan 5, 2011, at 11:02 AM

Since I no longer am able to drive (vision loss), I don't pay much attention to gas prices, but every now and then I look at the signs as we're out and about.

Here in San Antonio (and I'm sure every other larger metro area), the price can vary several pennies. For example, Valero is one I see on the way to and from my daughter's house. The price at the Valero station near her is 5 cents higher than the Valero station near me.

I haven't made a study of the oil industry and have no documented evidence to the contrary, but my impression is that GREED (all caps) drives the price. The oil companies have raised the price so that record profits are now the norm, and yet it seems they want more, always more, and they'll get what they want, since us lowly consumers have no leverage to counter our disadvantage.

The information Kathy posted recently from the KC Star article supports this supposition, as I see it. High Finance is behind it, as always.

The price for a gallon of gasoline is just one example of the general sickness that pervades this country's corporate sector (supported by the federal government).

Sorry, but I can't prevent the political tone of this post.

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Jan 5, 2011, at 10:58 AM

Ambsun,

Why are you taking this sooo personal?

-- Posted by daisygurl22 on Wed, Jan 5, 2011, at 10:22 AM

If you don't like the gas prices in Marshall, MOVE problem solved. It is amazing to watch history repeat it self, here we are in the middle of another witch hunt. You would think we would have learned by now.

-- Posted by ambsun on Wed, Jan 5, 2011, at 9:41 AM

Thanks, Philemon - What I was saying (or trying to say) about the map is that it doesn't appear that Saline County is quite as far out of line as some have been saying, if there are three counties around us with similar average pricing. The report is very detailed, with plenty of graphics that make it easier to understand. It certainly highlights the complexity of this issue.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Jan 5, 2011, at 9:34 AM

Thanks for the research Kathy. I really mean that. I haven't had time to read the report yet, but will this evening. I did go to the map you posted just moments ago. I'm not sure what it said when you looked at it, but it looks to me like it agrees with what we have been saying. The shaded areas represent a 7 cent range. Of the 7 counties bordering us, 4 of them are in a higher priced range and the other 3 are equal. State wide, there is only 1 county with average worse prices than us. Also, this is a county wide average. When Marshall is higher than other places in the county, the average comes somewhere in between.

Again, I would prefer prices to be lower everywhere, but feel lucky to live in Missouri where the prices average lower than most of the country. I also feel lucky to live in the USA where our prices are lower than most of the rest of the world. I simply don't feel lucky to live in Marshall where the price is usually higher than nearby surrounding areas. I really am looking forward to reading that report this evening. Maybe it will explain the reason this is happening.

-- Posted by Philemon on Wed, Jan 5, 2011, at 9:17 AM

LOL Kathy... glad you caught my sarcasm... lol

The point though is I dont need a study or a web site. I travel multiple times those routes and KNOW and pay attention to gas prices in all the towns that I drive through. It would not make any economical sense for me to stop and buy gas in the place that has the most consistently high price would it?

I was not trying to bad mouth your 'research' effort, only stating what I find in real life on the road daily and weekly.

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Jan 4, 2011, at 11:42 PM

You hate to? I seriously doubt that. This is why it's so difficult to address questions like this one - no matter what anyone else finds by doing a little research, someone will say, "Oh, no - that's not true." That's fine - but if you are seeing different prices, then go to gasbuddy.com and post the prices you see. It's completely updated by consumers and you clearly fall into that category, do you not?

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, Jan 4, 2011, at 8:34 PM

Gas prices here in NC are on the way to four dollars a gallon. An economist at NCSU postulated that gas prices are going up in response to an improving economy. Take a look at the countries that buy our Treasury bonds: China, Saudi Arabia, even Iran. Wait for the shoe to drop.

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Tue, Jan 4, 2011, at 8:27 PM

I hate to refute some online gas pricing map link but I travel from Sedalia to Trenton on highway 65 and from marshall to cameron going up highway 13 or across 36. Every town has lower gas prices than Marshall on a consistent basis. Not everyday or time but pretty much on a weekly basis or more. I just never buy gas here or buy stuff at gas stations here unless absolutely necessary. And it ain't evil old walmarts fault

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Jan 4, 2011, at 7:33 PM

Here is a GAO report from 2004, which includes very good information on some of the reasons for geographical differences in gas prices, including variations within a small local area. The relevant information begins on page 37 of the report.

www.gao.gov/new.items/d05525sp.pdf

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, Jan 4, 2011, at 6:23 PM

Looks to me like reports of local gas prices being substantially higher than in surrounding areas may be a little off, at least according to this map:

http://www.missourigasprices.com/Price_B...

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, Jan 4, 2011, at 5:02 PM

Smokin Cheetah,

After reading your post I could see why the editor probably deletes most of your posts.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Jan 4, 2011, at 3:42 PM

Not that we like high prices, but people aren't simply complaining about the high price of gas in general. We are complaining that gas is almost always quite a bit higher in Marshall than in other nearby cities such as Sedalia and Sweet Springs. I travel quite a bit and I always try to make sure that I only have enough gas when I leave town to get to someplace else to buy it while I'm out. In the last ten years, I can only remember being disappointed at having to pay a higher price out of town twice. I recently added an app on my phone that shows live prices of gas at all Murphy stations accurately and others a little less accurately. Every time I have checked so far, ours has been the highest within 100 miles, usually by at least a dime a gallon.

I understand the difficulty the paper may have in finding a reason for this and don't hold it at all against them. I would also hesitate to blame the local owners, as John Henry suggests, since I know a few of them and realize they have to pay their suppliers at whatever rate they are charged. Maybe there is a good reason why our prices are consistently higher, but I doubt it. Maybe we are at the exact farthest point on the route for every supplier to every station. Whatever the reason, I know it has nothing to do with war in the Middle East, OPEC, oil spills, what type of vehicle I drive, or even how much it costs in Australia.

By the way, if I found out that toilet paper was almost always significantly higher priced here than in every nearby town, I would be just as annoyed and wonder why.

-- Posted by Philemon on Tue, Jan 4, 2011, at 2:21 PM

Would you all just stop! What is people's beef with SUV's? They are not necessarily the "gas-guzzlers". I have a 6 cyl extended length that I average 20 on local highway, 18 in town, sometimes 25 on interstate. It is an SUV. This is better than I got with an AMC Pacer years back, and DEFINITELY better than my hubby ever got with his farm pickups!!!!! We choose to drive what we drive, I don't even pay any mind to gas prices, just fill up when I need, and pay my bill at the end of the month. It is a needed item. Look at toilet paper price increases the past few years - now I don't hear people beefing about that!! - it is because it is an item we need, that will be bought and used regardless of the price. We just all must be smart in HOW we consume these items, or any item, to use less of our worlds resources, but still get through this life.

Can we just find something else to discuss, something positive ???

-- Posted by the26er on Tue, Jan 4, 2011, at 11:42 AM

For all of those driving those gas guzzling vehicles and complaining of the cost of gas, well here is some of the newest and most fuel efficent vehicles on the market.

http://www.thedailygreen.com/environment...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Jan 4, 2011, at 11:16 AM

daisygurl22,

that's exactly the chain I'm speaking of....the one you worked for.

-- Posted by tcn on Tue, Jan 4, 2011, at 10:18 AM

Scarpetta,

I agree with you. My wording was not what I meant it to be. But I do know when I worked for Casey's we would get a call from corporate as to what we were to set the prices at.

-- Posted by daisygurl22 on Mon, Jan 3, 2011, at 5:27 PM

Smokin Cheetah,

THANK YOU!! And I agree with everything you said!

-- Posted by daisygurl22 on Mon, Jan 3, 2011, at 5:24 PM

ambsun,

Where in my post did I say I was talking about myself? YOU, my friend, are the one that directed all of this towards what kind of vehicles people drove. However, it doesn't matter...I was simply trying to point out that it is not only people who can afford big SUV's complaining about gas. Oh, by the way, I drive a 2004 Chevy Impala which is very economical.

Thanks

-- Posted by daisygurl22 on Mon, Jan 3, 2011, at 5:22 PM

smokin cheetah

Sounds like my statements hit close to home.

THE TRUTH HURTS.

-- Posted by ambsun on Mon, Jan 3, 2011, at 5:05 PM

A US gallon is a US gallon (128 oz) no matter what right?

-- Posted by Scarpetta on Mon, Jan 3, 2011, at 5:01 PM

daisygurl22

LoL! Thats funny when in your statement you make sure to let us know that you are on a fixed income and you cant afford to put gas in your 20+ year old car, sounds like your making it about the car that you drive. NO I'm not jealous of big SUV, I am very proud of the fact that I have been smart enough to not spend my money on wastfull transportation, and keep my money where it counts. MY FAMILY

-- Posted by ambsun on Mon, Jan 3, 2011, at 4:57 PM

Actually it's big chains that price check, local competition. How else do u think Walmart undercuts everyone? That is unless a local owner calls and tells them to stay away.

-- Posted by Scarpetta on Mon, Jan 3, 2011, at 4:51 PM

tcn,

So not true. Maybe with privately owned stations but not with the chains.

-- Posted by daisygurl22 on Mon, Jan 3, 2011, at 4:43 PM

Ambsun,

WOW! You completely missed the point! It isn't about the car one drives. Sounds to me like you are just jealous that you don't have a big gas guzzling SUV!

-- Posted by daisygurl22 on Mon, Jan 3, 2011, at 4:41 PM

outsider, I am obviously incapable of diverting you from a subject you have decided MUST be covered by the newspaper. You've had your question answered a couple of times, by more than one person, but if you prefer to beat a dead horse, please be my guest.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Mon, Jan 3, 2011, at 4:28 PM

daisygurl22

That is such a poor response. My family has never been wealthy and yet we have been able to purchase fuel efficient veicles since the 1970's. Just because you didn't have the fore thought to understand that prices never go down, what did you think that gas prices were going to stay at 95 cents per gallon when you bought your car 20+ years ago.

-- Posted by ambsun on Mon, Jan 3, 2011, at 4:28 PM

About the gas prices.....I have worked for one of the convenience stores chains. The gas & milk prices are based on competition. It was a daily task to drive around town & see what the competitions gas prices were. You report any changes back to your supervisor who then gives you direction as to what to do.

-- Posted by tcn on Mon, Jan 3, 2011, at 4:21 PM

Thanks for yet another diversion, Kathy. The global oil situation has nothing to do with why gas is higher in Marshall than nearby towns. Basically what Eric said was that it was hard to get an answer to the question, and if I recall, we didn't actually have a station owner resopond but rather someone who had a "good buddy" who used to have a station. As for where I live, let's put it this way...I spend probably 75% of my time and about the same percentage of my money in Marshall, but don't consider myself an "insider"...thus I'm an outsider.

-- Posted by outsider on Mon, Jan 3, 2011, at 4:01 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
And just to clarify -- the difficulty is not with local retailers but with finding someone up the supply chain who knows how prices are set and is willing to talk about it. We have tried in the past to find someone who meets both criteria and haven't succeeded.

Ambsun,

Some folks complaining about the gas prices are on a fixed income driving the same car they have had for 20+ years and can't afford to drive across town to the store much less go to a Dr. appt in Columbia. Not everyone is driving "a big macho useless gas guzzler".

Thank You

-- Posted by daisygurl22 on Mon, Jan 3, 2011, at 2:07 PM

outsider, you said that "most would just like to have the paper ask the question and report what the local gas merchants have to say about the situation."

I believe that Eric has already answered that question. And we have had, as someone pointed out, at least one station owner respond. There's not much more to discuss, is there? If you're interested in the reasons, look globally - it's not a situation that is confined to the city of Marshall. Our gas prices may be higher than elsewhere AT THIS TIME, but the rest of them will catch up pretty quickly.

Just wondering - does your nickname mean you don't live here in Marshall? And if that is the case, why, then, is gas pricing here such a deep concern for you?

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Mon, Jan 3, 2011, at 1:58 PM

Here in WI, we have a "minimum mark-up" law on just about every purchasable item, including gas. We also have much higher gas taxes surrounding states. As a result, places like Wal-mart can't charge less for gas than what it costs them to buy it. Of course, it also means that our gas prices are much higher than in Missouri. We're currently paying $3.09/gallon in my town. Pretty much everyone I know would love to be paying the prices they do in Marshall!

-- Posted by koeller77 on Mon, Jan 3, 2011, at 1:04 PM

No one is asking, and certainly aren't expecting, the paper or city council to do something about gas prices. That's obviouisly not within their powers. It's private business. Most would just like to have the paper ask the question and report what the local gas merchants have to say about the situation.

-- Posted by outsider on Mon, Jan 3, 2011, at 11:04 AM

We live in a free market economy people, which means you have a right to shop or NOT to shop with any business you choose. If you want to start forcing business to charge what you want, then you might as well rip down the American flag and hand us over to communist China. Just because driving a vehicle has become common place here in the U.S. doesn't mean that it has become a right, no where in the Constitution does it say that we have a right to life, liberty, and cheap fule and a vehicle to drive. The people who complain about high fule prices are the same people who bought a big macho useless gas guzzler not thinking about the cost of vanity, they have made their bed so now they have to lie in it.

-- Posted by ambsun on Mon, Jan 3, 2011, at 10:47 AM

A local business owner did respond to the gas question. It was in the previous edition, prior to the new year. I'm not sure of the laws governing the "gas industry" but with all local business all the money is made long before it makes it to the local mom and pop shop.

So attend all the council meetings you want, they don't control local business owners. If you want to offer better prices, contact Cat Lover and make an offer in their business. You can set the price as you wish, that is of course that it isn't governed by the government.

-- Posted by Scarpetta on Mon, Jan 3, 2011, at 8:09 AM

Outsider, and all

I was just curious why everyone was complaining about getting gouged and the newspaper not doing anything about it. The newspaper has to have hard evidence and proof of gouging taking place, or they could be sued. Instead of sitting on this website complaining all day why don't you do something about it.

If every single person who has complained on here grabbed ten friends and neighbors that also do not like the gas situation, attend the next city council meeting make your city council do something about it. If enough of you show up, they want your vote they will do something about it, or else start a boycott of the local gas stations if you get enough involved and affect their bottom line it will stop.

They only get away with it, because the citizens do not do anything accept complain about it. Its time to stop complaining about others not doing anything when we can take care of it ourselves.

-- Posted by Mommyto1 on Mon, Jan 3, 2011, at 7:35 AM

Give it up, wheresthelove. The paper wants the whole gas price question to disappear. That's the trouble with small town papers. They can't ask the tough questions because they'll be stepping on the toes of their neighbors or their shrinking number of possible advertising accounts. Instead, they hide behind a bunch of lame excuses.

read fast...a lot of my posts get pulled.

-- Posted by outsider on Sun, Jan 2, 2011, at 11:14 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
www.marshallnews.com/story/1684882.html

Happy New Year and thanks Eric for your equanimity.

A suggestion for the polling question on the past year:

"With gratitude for having had 365 more days on earth."

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Sun, Jan 2, 2011, at 9:51 PM

Thanks Kathy and oldblackcat!!

-- Posted by Scarpetta on Sun, Jan 2, 2011, at 7:06 PM

gas $2.73 in Sedalia, topped off my tank!!

-- Posted by wheresthelove on Sun, Jan 2, 2011, at 6:31 PM

Recently had dinner at The Railyard in Brunswick - good food!

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sun, Jan 2, 2011, at 5:56 PM

testing

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jan 2, 2011, at 5:30 PM

Scarpetta-

We love eating at the Pizzeria in Slater and The Railyard in Brunswick. Both places offer steaks, but only on the weekends.

-- Posted by Oldblackcat on Sun, Jan 2, 2011, at 3:20 PM

Does anyone know if the Marshall FFA will be collecting shoes again and about when???? I think it was them that had the project last year.

-- Posted by farmerwife on Sun, Jan 2, 2011, at 3:05 PM

arojr no I haven't, thank you for the suggestion. I'll look into that.

-- Posted by Scarpetta on Sun, Jan 2, 2011, at 1:46 PM

Scarpetta have u tried Dickie Doo's in Sadalia they have really good food.

-- Posted by arojr on Sun, Jan 2, 2011, at 12:03 PM

How about good prime rib? Any thoughts on where to find some without driving 4 hours?

-- Posted by Scarpetta on Sun, Jan 2, 2011, at 11:45 AM

Another year is upon us. Wow, that was fast, wasn't it?

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sat, Jan 1, 2011, at 6:33 AM

Ate at an excellent place in Columbia last night. Excellent food and a nice romantic atmosphere. Check it out.

http://www.mackenziesseafoodandsteaks.co...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Jan 1, 2011, at 5:33 AM

Happy New Year!

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Sat, Jan 1, 2011, at 12:05 AM


Respond to this story

Posting a comment requires free registration. If you already have an account on this site, enter your username and password below. Otherwise, click here to register.

Username:

Password:  (Forgot your password?)

Your comments:
Please be respectful of others and try to stay on topic.

Related subjects