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Speak Out [politics] November 1 to December 22, 2010

Monday, November 1, 2010

This forum is for discussing political issues -- local, state, national or international. The same standards of behavior apply as are spelled out on our home page in the introduction to Speak Out.

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news across,

Here's a source I found that gives more context to the quote:

http://tinyurl.com/4um2svr

-- Posted by taxedpayer on Sun, Jan 30, 2011, at 9:11 AM

Note. My apparent dual post was just a legit effort to be less abrasive in my comments, the second being my try harder. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Jan 25, 2011, at 12:32 AM

Back In The Day, I agree that what you reported is anathema to the right as well as the left. Do you not agree rr3, JHH, and Mr. Xray?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Jan 25, 2011, at 12:30 AM

Saw that one "Back In". I am curious as to whether, or not our "Resident Right Trio" can bring themselves to chime in on this one. If not here then where, and when? What about it guys?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Jan 24, 2011, at 11:40 PM

Aw Gee News, say it ain't so. Things won't be the same without you.

ROTFLMAO at your response.

Congratulations on your first Grand Child. Enjoy intensely, for they do grow up, and are on with life far too soon.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Jan 24, 2011, at 5:53 PM

Over the past week, I've gotten the impression that a group of people who preach "diversity" don't mean it. An opnion that diverges from theirs is condemned instead of welcomed to the dialogue. Jared Loungher (besides being mentally ill) had it wrong: it's not about grammar. It's about vocabulary. We discuss politics in terms of sports or war terminology. Think about it. Some people don't understand differences between war and hunting vocabulary, perhaps isolated in big city environments. Let's understand differences between metaphorical and literal. Urbanites are in the majority and believe they know it all even if they never stood in a cornfield or nocked an arrow to shoot a deer.

-- Posted by former editor on Sun, Jan 16, 2011, at 12:24 PM

A link to a page in the Wall Street Journal. I'm not pointing my finger at the right or left. Just want to show FACTS.http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703779704576073973345594508.html

-- Posted by US male on Wed, Jan 12, 2011, at 7:38 PM

One day after the turnover in the House was made official, the so-called Promise to America by the GOP is already backing down on its promises.

Now, isn't that a surprise!

Yes, it'll be business as usual. When will the citizens of America wake up and force REAL change?

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Jan 6, 2011, at 6:56 PM

rr3, I thought I might take a moment to provide you some information that you have either forgotten, supressed, or never knew. Your comment about the 60% increase under Pelosi is chump change.

Your hero Ronald Raygun is the true champion with a 182% increase during his tenure.

Since his "sin" is three times greater than Pelosi's I expect you to berate him three times as much as you did Pelosi in regard to the issue.

http://www.skymachines.com/US-National-D...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jan 5, 2011, at 11:08 PM

For all the talk about the death panels that would have been formed by the creation of universal health care it sees odd to me that there wouldn't be more opposition to the death panels that the republicans and the new tea party officials we be creating with cuts to medicaid.

I guess most Republicans are okay with it as long as it is low-income americans dying and its not their rich friends on wall street. Whether its the elderly or its low income Americans I don't believe money should be the determining factor in whether someone lives or dies. Its sad to see occurences such as this in this video!

http://www.thinkprogress.org/2010/12/08/...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Jan 4, 2011, at 12:40 PM

Check out this funny cartoon about the Tea Party.

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:193809...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Mon, Jan 3, 2011, at 10:23 PM

testing

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jan 2, 2011, at 5:39 PM

Sho nuff about that.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Dec 23, 2010, at 10:44 PM

One more reason why Obama should be overwhelmingly defeated in 2012, and be left to languish on the ash heap of history. http://blog.buzzflash.com/node/12130

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Dec 23, 2010, at 10:42 PM

zeke,

You are referring to the song "One Tin Soldier" by Coven.

It's amazing those lyrics hold just as much if not more meaning than ever.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Dec 22, 2010, at 3:52 PM

hahaha

okr - not sure - i first heard it on a john denver album back in "the day" as they say. denver did a good job with it - and i was a little more anti-war back then. made an impact, that's for sure. kinda reminded me of the "go ahead and hate your neighbor ... go ahead and cheat a friend ... do it in the name of heaven ... you'll be justified in the end ... there won't be any trumpets blowing ... come the judgment day ... or the bloody morning after - one tin soldier rides away" from the billy jack movies. remember that?

zeke

-- Posted by zeke on Wed, Dec 22, 2010, at 8:00 AM

Eric this is getting slow to load again. May we start fresh?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Dec 22, 2010, at 12:43 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Sorry about that. I'll get to it today.

Or was that Kendrew Lascelles? Always a controversy on the political blog, even about the seemingly non-controversial. ;)

http://www.reelyredd.com/english-0108the...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Dec 22, 2010, at 12:41 AM

The Box

By lascelles Abercrombie

(1881-1938)

Once upon a time in the land of hushabye, in the woundrous days of yore ... They came upon this kind of box ... All bound with chains and locked with locks ... And labelled "kindly do not Touch, it's WAR"

Decree was issued round about ... All with a flourish and a shout ... And gayley colored mascots trippling lightly on the fore ... "do not tamper with this deadly box" ... "Don"t break the chains or pick the locks" ... "Please don't ever play about with war".

Well the children understood ... children happen to be good ... And they were just as good around the time of yore ... they didn't try to break the chains or pick the locks ... they didn't play about with war.

Mommies didn't either ... sisters aunts grannies neither ... They were quiet and sweet and pretty in those wondrous days of yore ... Fairly much the same as now ... Not the ones to blame somehow ... for opening up that deadly box of war.

But someone did - Someone battered in the lid and spilled the insides out across the floor ... A kind of bouncy bumpy ball, filled with guns and flags and all the tears and horror and death, that goes with war.

It bounced right out and went crashing all about ... And bumping into everything in store ... and what was sad and most unfair ... Is that it didn't really seem to care much who it bumped ... Or why, or what , or for.

It bumped the children mainly ... And I'll tell you this quite plainly ... It bumps them every day and more, and more ... And leaves them dead and burned and dying ... Thousands of them sick and crying ... cause when it bumps ... its really very sore.

Now there's a way to stop the ball... it isn't difficult at all ... all it takes is wisdom ... and I'm absolutely sure ... We can get the ball back in the box ... And bind the chains

And lock the locks.

But no one seems to want to save the children any more.

Well that's the way it all appears ... that balls been bouncing round for years and years ... in spite of all the wisdom whizzed since those wondrous days of yore ... when they came upon this kind of box ... all bound with chains and locked with locks ... and labeled "Kindly do not touch" ... "ITS WAR"

-- Posted by zeke on Tue, Dec 21, 2010, at 2:23 PM

"The System Worked": Man Boards Plane with Loaded Gun

http://www.redstate.com/aglanon/2010/12/...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Dec 21, 2010, at 6:51 AM

Well news you are right about leading a horse to water. Maybe we are alike just on different issues. Men suppress the truth because they don't want to come from the dark to the light because it reveals their evil ways. I don't think that applies to tax cuts though.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Dec 21, 2010, at 6:08 AM

I asked for specifics and you provided none. Just as expected.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Dec 21, 2010, at 6:01 AM

Well rr,

The specifics you ask for are in the links.

I guess its true what they say about leading horses to water.

I guess mate it doesn't matter what is right in front of your eyes...you will find some obscure reason why you just can't see the words through the letters.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Dec 21, 2010, at 4:47 AM

News if those links were so specific then tell me what tax cuts that will benefit me? All I hear is largest tax cut in history but nothing specific. I can find all kinds of links that say that but nothing specific. Kind of like global warming claims that explain nothing but you better believe it. One thing about it news having faith in man takes a lot more faith then having faith in God.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Dec 21, 2010, at 4:12 AM

Anyone else checkin out the eclipse? Sorry News, looks like you are doubly short changed this holiday season.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Dec 21, 2010, at 12:43 AM

In 2010 only four percent of the major news outlets stories were devoted to the Afghanistan war.

Cited as a cause by journalists was that news budgets didn't have the money for Afghanistan coverage. Also cited was that inside the United States you've got audiences that are beginning to suffer from war fatigue. Additionally it was stated that it is a complex war, and therefore difficult to cover. http://thinkprogress.org/2010/12/20/afgh...

Let's nutshell that. The people don't care about war anymore, we don't have money we want to waste on war coverage, and it is to hard to explain this war.

Let's compress it a bit more. The people don't give a ****, couldn't understand it if they did, so we don't spend money on it.

There ladies, and gentlemen is the kind of cancerous apathy that is killing our democracy.

In all previous wars we waited to forget our troops, and what they had done, until they had been home for a little while. Now we forget them as they continue to fight.

It is a national disgrace perpetrated by the people, and the press.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Dec 20, 2010, at 11:39 PM

Its official Fox News is not a news network anymore just a political arm of the Republican party.

http://mediamatters.org/studios/video/20...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Mon, Dec 20, 2010, at 9:17 PM

rr3yv0

Uh...yeah everyone of those links was specific. What is it about "Largest Tax Cut in History" don't you understand.

You may not want to believe facts...but the fact is that in February 2009 President Obama and the Democrats passed into law the largest single tax cut in the history of the United States of America.

In addition, its important to note that every single Republican in Congress -- every one of them -- voted against the tax cuts...and that is a fact too mate.

Maybe you need to go back and re-read those links before you start erroniously claiming again that the articles I posted are not specific...cause that dog just won't hunt...

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Dec 20, 2010, at 4:57 PM

NanaDot

Thanks for asking.

Its been a cool Summer start this Season. Cool in the sense that it is extrememly comfortable. Really, the only way you know its Summer here are that the days are longer lol...more daylight hours. I am bracing though for the really hot days which we expect in January. I have seen it hit 125 farenheight here, and its not unusual for it to hit 115 on a particularly hot Summer day here. Needless to say, we spend a lot of time in the house with the airconditioner running full on those days.

The only good thing about those hot Summer days is the cool "Southerly" that usually follows the heat at around 5 PM. Its kind of like some gigantic airconditioner is turned on and it cools down the entire city. The Southerly is a wind that blows up from Antarctica. Sometimes the Southerly Wind brings with it rain, but when it does the rain is brief -- a brief thunderstorm -- then it becomes a very nice, comfortable Summer night.

And with Christmas coming up...

I Just can't seem to get used to having Christmas in the Summer. I should be used to it by now, but I'm not. Folks put up Xmas lights and displays here just like they do in many places in the USA and some are very lovely and extensive, but still its hard for my American brain to reconcile seeing Santa's sleigh on a green lawn surrounded by green trees and bush's on a hot Summer day. Its a good thing Santa's sleigh can fly because I don't think that sled would pull well on thick grass and bare street pavement...lol.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Dec 20, 2010, at 4:18 PM

That's ok news I looked them up myself and I am not eligible for any of them. I will not buy something that I wasn't going to buy anyway just to get a tax break. I don't know about you but my cost of living has went up the last 2 years. So higher cost of living and no tax breaks, I'm not impressed.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Dec 19, 2010, at 11:23 PM

Uh news you may impress your fan base with all your links but none of them provided any specific tax cuts as examples or where any of the money was being spent. Not impressed mate. Where's the beef?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Dec 19, 2010, at 10:56 PM

Hey there X-ra...how ya doing mate.

I see you are confused again regarding what constitutes rich and what constitutes poor. Perhaps the better question is what is the trend of disparity of income in the United States?

Perhaps these will help clear things up for you.

(1) "Income Gap and Marginal Tax Rate 1917-2006"

http://www.visualizingeconomics.com/2008...

(2) "Tour of the

US Income Distribution,

"The L-Curve"

http://www.lcurve.org/

(3) "Income Inequality: A Deeper Look"

http://modeledbehavior.com/2010/07/22/in...

(4) "Facts About Income That Every American Should Know"

http://www.osjspm.org/101_income_facts.a...

(5) "Income Gap Is Widening, Data Shows"

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/29/busine...

I think the only way one could not see the rate of income disparity and the clear lines that seperate the overwhelming majority and the very few rich is if the person simply didn't want to see the facts.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Dec 19, 2010, at 8:32 PM

Uh.. rr3yv0...

I guess you and Rush missed the largest Tax cut in the history of the United States -- February, 2009...

"BIGGEST. TAX CUT. EVER."

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archive...

"Is Obama Stimulus Plan Also the Biggest Tax Cut Ever?"

By Robert Schlesinger

http://politics.usnews.com/opinion/blogs...

"American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Re...

"The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009: Information Center"

http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,i...

Exactly how did Rush forget this? You don't think ol' Rush has a partisian, selective, deceptive memory do you? Hey!...I bet its all those drugs he is abusing that are fogging his memory...what do ya think mate?

Personally, I don't trust drug addicts...you remember that old National Promo we use to see on TV..This is your brain on drugs.... So, I guess you can understand why I don't listen to any of Rush's confused diatribes.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Dec 19, 2010, at 7:19 PM

"Study: Supreme Court becoming a tool for corporate interests"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/12/supre...

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/19/us/19r...

http://epstein.law.northwestern.edu/rese...

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Dec 19, 2010, at 6:58 PM

Evidently you're not listening Nana. I expect no more or no less. So continue.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Dec 19, 2010, at 8:34 AM

Will We See Democrat Defections?

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/s...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Dec 19, 2010, at 7:48 AM

Dick Durbin Admits That Tax Increases Damage the Economy

Now they want credit for not increasing taxes but never want to cut them.

Why didn't you cut taxes two years ago, Dick? Why didn't you and Obama cut taxes two years ago in the midst of the beginning of the recession?

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/s...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Dec 19, 2010, at 7:13 AM

What's Smart About Being Wrong?

Are you smart because other people think you are? Are you smart because the right people say you are? Are you smart because you sound smart?

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/s...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Dec 19, 2010, at 7:07 AM

You can bet if the economy doesn't recover in the next 2 years they will blame the tax cuts. Folks there were no tax cuts they didn't change anything the rates remain the same. If the economy recovers they will say look what we did we saved America from financial collapse. People wake up we the people recover the economy not big government.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Dec 19, 2010, at 6:59 AM

Seems to me the military and the healthcare industry share the same goal using different tactics. The end goal is the health and well being of the American citizen. What if the military were only to protect those who could afford "military insurance".

I really don't see any difference. "We were founded on christian principals" I hear that alot. Really? It is shameful to me that in this age of advanced mecial techniques and technology that we are ok with letting our supposed "brothers and sisters" suffer,die and be driven into bankruptcy and for what? Money. Pieces of gold if you will. We are more worried about "gays" in the military then the suffering of our fellow man.

I guess some things will never change.

If we wanted to we could figure out a way for every citizen to have the care they needed with dignity and compassion but,apparently we don't want that. Maybe we are too worried about someone getting something for nothing? Let's keep arguing about the most petty issues while ignoring the most basic needs of man. Afterall, what is the government for anyway? There's always money for bullets,never money for bedpans.

We should be ashamed of ourselves.

Merry Christmas.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Dec 19, 2010, at 6:01 AM

nanadot... same thing...

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Dec 18, 2010, at 10:54 PM

should have said... the people being accustomed to the government taking care of all things for them....

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Dec 18, 2010, at 12:34 PM

OKR.. lol again reading too much into something I posted. I never said that Europe does not ration as they ration every aspect of health care. WHo can get what drugs and at what stage of their disease process and at what age are you deemed too old for some procedures as the economy cannot every support real health care for all people of any nation of any size. AND with the European nations economies falling like dominoes and being forced to reduce and remove some or all of their socialist programs and the riots that follow due to the people being accustomed to taking care of them so they have no personal responsibility should REALLY be the example we follow? LOL

I guess if we too want to follow the example of the European nations then we should start exchanging our window glass for bullet proof glass and armored cars and arming ourselves with fire extinguishers and weapons to protect ourselves and our property for the riots that you are wishing on our nation right?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Dec 18, 2010, at 12:27 PM

http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2010/12/17...

Here is an example of what we get when we let the government have too much power

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Dec 18, 2010, at 12:13 PM

Xray, your statement, America rationing cancer drugs, Europe is not. Thank you for helping make the case for single payer health care, the European model.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Dec 18, 2010, at 11:52 AM

More clarification here:

www.semissourian.com/story/1688546.html

Turns out Cleaver posts on his website all proposals he receives, good, bad or silly. He did not submit a request for $48 billion. His total requests were a little over $17 million. He even says if anyone asked for $48 billion they ought to be removed from Congress.

The whole thing was a misunderstanding on the part of the columnist who wrote the original piece that is now being taken as gospel by some bloggers.

-- Posted by taxedpayer on Sat, Dec 18, 2010, at 7:07 AM

mrxray,

After following a few links, I found the original version of this bogus claim. It was published by the Southeast Missourian, which offers a clarification:

"Editor's note: According to Rep. Emmanuel Cleaver, the $48 billion project cited below was not "proposed" by him. He explains that he lists all earmarks requested by his constituents on his website -- but not those he actually decides to support. His office says it will consider listing those projects he actually supports in the future."

This page has links to Cleaver's response and to his website, where the original request for the earmark was published.

www.semissourian.com/story/1687936.html

-- Posted by taxedpayer on Sat, Dec 18, 2010, at 6:58 AM

Of course the FDA is RATIONING our health care in the form of rationing Cancer treatment drugs... even as Europe is NOT rationing the same drug...

But of course the whole death panel comment had not basis right? Nor does the governmental control of our health care industry... yet if you dont get the CA drug then you DIE and if the government can ration drugs then this is governmental control over our health care....

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Dec 18, 2010, at 1:04 AM

http://biggovernment.com/jhoft/2010/12/1...

Great day for Missouri Democrat Rep Cleaver... 48 BILLION earmark to his friend who runs a day care center out of his home? lol

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Dec 18, 2010, at 1:01 AM

I happen to agree that greed is a major issue and problem within our politics and our society as a whole. BUT the whole idea that somehow if you designate a dollar amount and above it you are 'rich' and below it you are 'poor' then if you are above that dollar amount and deemed automatically greedy, uncaring and evil and if you are poor then you are automatically abused, oppressed and good, then this idea is stupid, not based in reality and does nothing to help solve the problems in our society, our nation and even our world.

It is very easy to look, jealously, toward the rich people and blame them for our poverty. This is especially true if, as the left is doing, stirs the pot of class warfare. It is even easier for the poor and downtrodden to use the 'rich are oppressing me' excuse and then just accept their lot in life and look toward the government for handouts while ignoring the fact that the government is full of greed and corruption itself.

Using the easy rich people are evil argument ignores the reality of the causes of poverty and other issues. It ignores the fact that most people who are poor have made at least one major bad choice in life that has affected the outcome of the rest of their lives. It ignores the fact that millions of people make the CHOICE to drop out of school, to have babies before education and a career, to drink alcohol and do drugs leading to addiction and mental problems. Not ONE big corporation or rich person caused people to make bad life choices and not one rich person or big corporation forces those people to not do the hard work to overcome the problems that come with bad choices.

If you REALLY wanted to fix out nation and its economic problems you would ensure that people were forced to take responsibility for their own actions and choinces and not reward them with handouts and welfare. This type of concept has made our government to become an enabler of this type of behavior.

Yes there are rich people who are greedy and take every advantage of any loophole or person that they can. BUT the same is said of any and all people at any income level. Everyone has to have the newest and latest electronic gaming system, cell phone, newer or bigger cars, newer and bigger houses, name brand insanely expensive clothes and accessories all at the expense of things that are actually important, such as life insurance, long term disability insurance, retirement, health care, and taking care of our parents instead of placing them in nursing homes, to name a few.

And the whole concept of personal responsibility can be applied to any income level and any size of business. But we dont because we have grown accustomed to uncle sam bailing us out... individuals or businesses.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Dec 18, 2010, at 12:40 AM

The official Tea Party Christmas card. http://www.internetweekly.org/2010/12/ca...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Dec 18, 2010, at 12:34 AM

The rise of right wing hate and how it gets started!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WT1Vwlfy...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Sat, Dec 18, 2010, at 12:07 AM

Ann Coulter thinks Canada sent troops to Vietnam.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vg7IhR0cc...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Fri, Dec 17, 2010, at 11:23 PM

Very interesting News.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Dec 17, 2010, at 10:44 PM

"Exclusive: US empire could collapse at any time, Pulitzer winner tells Raw Story"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/12/untit...

When I first read this headline, I thought it was a bit over the top...until I read his reasons for thinking that.

Its and interesting read and he is an expert on declining empires.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Dec 17, 2010, at 3:34 PM

zeke

I think you are exaclty 100% correct, and I agree with you.

Well said mate, you make some darn good points there.

Its a frighting situation, and I think its a much bigger problem than most folks know. In fact, Big Banking and their corpratist pals have done a very good job of hiding their agenda from the general public. But as President Lincoln once pointed out, they can't fool all the People, all of the time. That is their weakness.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Dec 17, 2010, at 2:55 PM

in addition - i think it was easier to see the elite and recognize them for who they were back in the french revolution days. seems like today - the banking elite and just plain powermongers live among us and put on a pretty good show of being "one of us." in short - hard to tell the good guys from the bad. still - i would go along with the thought that revolution might just be a good thing, all things considered.

just sayin

zeke

-- Posted by zeke on Fri, Dec 17, 2010, at 8:56 AM

news

what i find annoying - maybe even a bit scary - is that those who have not really studied the new world order and have some idea of how far back its roots go think it's a right wing thing. the new world order is not about republicans or democrats - right wing or left wing. its ranks contain members of every imaginable irk and slant. and at it has some very alarming goals and means. most folks don't know - for instance - that people are hand picked to be groomed for leadership at a young age. many who have been named rhodes scholars have been especially on the fast track the last few decades.

sorry to say - it appears that the idea - and likelihood - of a new world order is alive and well, is international in its scope, is controlled by the ultra-elite of all political persuasions, and is not a good thing for any nations or peoples who consider themselves a democracy or an independent, sovereign republic.

i'm just sayin'

zeke

-- Posted by zeke on Fri, Dec 17, 2010, at 8:50 AM

I found this video on you tube.

Its photos from the East coast of Australia and from the blue mountains to the south pacific, this is what I see everyday...this is where I live...enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PlaTF66l...

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Dec 17, 2010, at 5:54 AM

"Reflections And Warnings - An Interview With Aaron Russo {Full Film}"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGAaPjqdb...

Alex Jones interview with the late Movie Producer and conservative Republican Aaron Russo regarding his friend Rockefeller and what Rockefeller told him regarding, the Banking elite, 9/11, and his close friend Rockefellers' plan for a New World order as told to him by Rockefeller.

Its a very interesting, revealing interview.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Dec 17, 2010, at 1:13 AM

OKR,

I concur with Professor Reich's assesment.

I have been saying the same thing for quite sometime now.

The French had a similar problem and in 1789 they began to do something about it.

I really do wish the rich would count how many of them there are and how many of the rest of us there are, because there are not enough bullets to stop the People if, like the French, they tire of the economic desparity and the oppression of the rich elite.

I recall one time that one of my American history teachers when I was in college once asked for a show of hands in class to the question of whether or not Americans tend to be politically complacent or politically revolutionary. Most of my fellow students were very conservative Southerners and most believed we were a complacent society. Then our Professor proceeded to prove that notion completely wrong with the many, many examples of American rebellion.

The Rockefellers and their fellow ultra-rich, banking class seem to belive that somehow no rebellion could ever happen in America or that somehow they could resist the masses in America...they are definately wrong.

The sad part is that they may not realize what their greed has wrought until they and their families are swinging from ropes by their necks.

We the People always decide everything in the end...not the rich, and when the People decide the rich are rich no more, then the rich and their running dog lackeys may find themselves waiting in a jail cell for their turn on the Guillotine -- just like the French aristochracy.

No amount of bullets or money will save the American aristochracy and their supporters from the rath of the American People once the wheels of revolution begin to turn, but the American People will have to get pretty hungry before they will finally take control of the situation. Never-the-less, we are well on our way in that direction.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Dec 17, 2010, at 12:06 AM

An editor at Fox news sent emails to its staffers and journalists for them to cast doubt on climate change during news coverage. This is the same editor that urged them to use the phrase government option instead of public option during its coverage of the health care debate.

This is more proof that Fox News is in the business of trying to influence its viewers instead of just informing them of the issues that this country has to deal with.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/15...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Thu, Dec 16, 2010, at 11:41 PM

Tanks ND, I couldn't stop with just one, rather I read on, and on, and on.

I hadn't read Reich in a week or two. the only problem I have with him is that he has too high of an opinion of Obama, and Clinton. So much for the trite old phrase familiarity breeds contempt.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Dec 16, 2010, at 11:38 PM

If anyone here hasn't seen tonite's episode of the Daily Show on Comedy Central dedicated to 9/11 first responders, look for it on the net.

I would love to hear your thoughts.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Dec 16, 2010, at 10:23 PM

All are bad, but ClusterFox is the worst. http://www.newscorpse.com/ncWP/?p=3409

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Dec 16, 2010, at 9:04 PM

"Extended exposure to Fox News makes voters stupid, university study finds"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/12/study...

Cheese I hope you don't mind me reposting the study's results. It was so good when you posted the alternet article on this study the first time, that I just had to post it again.

Its sad that a lot of folks just accept Fox News commentary as "reporting the news." There is a big difference. Certainly commentary is important but it should not be presented as if it is news reporting. When folks can't distinguish between factual news reporting and subjective, partisan opinion it indicates a significant problem with comprehension.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Dec 16, 2010, at 8:42 PM

"The only security of all is in a free press. The force of public opinion cannot be resisted when permitted freely to be expressed. The agitation it produces must be submitted to. It is necessary, to keep the waters pure."

Thomas Jefferson to Lafayette, 1823. ME 15:491

"The basis of our governments being the opinion of the people, the very first object should be to keep that right; and were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter. But I should mean that every man should receive those papers and be capable of reading them."

Thomas Jefferson to Edward Carrington, 1787. ME 6:57

"Our liberty cannot be guarded but by the freedom of the press, nor that be limited without danger of losing it."

Thomas Jefferson to John Jay, 1786.

"Freedom of the press, or, to be more precise, the benefit of freedom of the press, belongs to everyone - to the citizen as well as the publisher... The crux is not the publisher's 'freedom to print'; it is, rather, the citizen's 'right to know. "

Arthur Sulzburger - 1990 - American newspaper publisher

"Paramount among the responsibilities of a free press is the duty to prevent any part of the government from deceiving the people and sending them off to distant lands to die of foreign fevers and foreign shot and shell."

Hugo Black

"There is no more important struggle for American democracy than ensuring a diverse, independent and free media. Free Press is at the heart of that struggle."

Bill Moyers

"...there's enormous pressures to harmonize freedom of speech legislation and transparency legislation around the world - within the E.U., between China and the United States. Which way is it going to go? It's hard to see."

Julian Assange, 2010, Chief Editor Wiki Leaks, Champion of Free Press

http://www.tentmaker.org/Quotes/free_pre...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Dec 16, 2010, at 6:35 PM

"Espionage Act endangers First Amendment rights, ACLU warns"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/12/espio...

http://www.aclu.org/files/assets/ACLU_St...

"Wikileaks did not commit a crime, House Judiciary chairman says"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/12/wikil...

1st Ammendment of the United States Constitution:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_Am1...

Freedom of the Press: Supreme Court: Precident: New York Times V United States of America, 1971

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/ge...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Dec 16, 2010, at 3:50 PM

rr

As I said, my biggest concern right now is the trend of the United Fascist Party towards stripping us of our civil rights.

Lead by UFP President Obama, these attacks include attempting to effectively eliminate our Free Press by utilizing prohibited prior restraint and eliminating Free Speech by controlling the content of our speech, and by threatening to jail anyone who dares to expose Government fraud and Government criminal activities.

To me there is no greater threat to our National Security than these attacks by the United Fascist Party upon our Constitution and our freedoms.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Dec 16, 2010, at 3:17 PM

rr,

Hey read this post before you get too much information from Fox news. Fox news may be just a tad more reliable than Limbaugh but who knows? Yet less reliable than other networks

http://www.alternet.org/media/149193/stu...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Thu, Dec 16, 2010, at 12:03 PM

So where is the overwhelming undeniable evidence you speak of? Most of what I read is speculation of what might happen. I know some of our hottest temperatures in this area were recorded over 100 years ago. Looks to me that weather cycles. Back in the 70's it was global cooling and now they want to call it climate change so then they can go either way. If there was no money to be made from it either way then what would it be. How much money has Al made from this and would he be willing to give that up if it were actually true. A lot of the evidence to prove it has been proven to be in error and scientist have been told to uphold it to be employed. False evidence does not make true facts. As for misleading we have been led to believe it to be true and they are indoctrinating are kids with a lie. You know people in power don't want to waste a good crisis and they get people such as yourself to believe it.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Dec 16, 2010, at 11:45 AM

zeke

Yes I think it is likely. If they can do it at the National level, they can sure do it at the State and local levels too.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Dec 16, 2010, at 8:40 AM

news

you said "I wonder if any of our votes are actually counted nowdays anyway. I think perhaps the Masters ... decide long before the election who will be the 'winner' and what the outcome of the election will be." do you think this happens at the state and local levels as well?

just wondering'

zeke

-- Posted by zeke on Thu, Dec 16, 2010, at 8:29 AM

rr3yv0

The scientific evidence of man-made global warming is overwhelming and undeniable.

But that is not my immediate concern right now. Issues like the emails and memos of Fox's intent to mislead the public on this issue are self-evident.

But what I am really concerned with right now are the many attempts on the part of the Republicans and the Democrats to strip us of our civil rights. These 2 parties are almost identical with the only real disagreement being how far to stick the knife in the backs of the American People.

I agree with another commenters observation that indeed Obama is just as bad as Bush ever was.

"Federal court blocks Obama Administration attempt to spy on cell phones without a warrant"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/12/obama...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Dec 16, 2010, at 8:23 AM

So news do you believe in global warming? If so why?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Dec 16, 2010, at 6:27 AM

"Al Gore: Fox's 'false' coverage of climate change comes straight from the top"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/12/gore-...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Dec 16, 2010, at 1:37 AM

Cheese,

Thanks for posting that link to alternet regarding Fox News. It is very informative and hillareous...all at the same time.

I notice they used the word "misinformation." This is a word created by one of Reagans running dog lacky speech writers. It means "lie." It was first used to describe a lie that the Reagan Administration had been intentionally spreading as a "leak" in order to further one of his fascist policies.

So, when ever I see the word "misinformation," I know they mean lie and are trying to be polite lol.

Fox has been getting busted for direct lying and orders to lie from their top boss lately. Its getting to be a daily occurance now that Fox gets busted in intentional lies.

Why anyone would watch that propaganda channel to get news, I don't understand.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Dec 15, 2010, at 11:53 PM

People tend to forget that Murdoch admitted on camera he slanted his news in favor of the Iraq war. Why is this man not in prison right along with Bush/Cheney?

Can anyone tell men what horrors President Obama has committed that even come close to what these men have done to the USA?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Dec 15, 2010, at 10:26 PM

A new study out of the University of Maryland shows that viewers of Fox news placed #1 for the most misinformed. 63% of Fox news viewers believe President Obama wasn't born in the U.S. This wasn't the only issue Fox viewers are misinformed on.

So its clear the Fox News intenionally lies to its views by distorting the reality of the political arena. So its true the more fox news you watch the less you know whether youre a conservative or liberal.

http://www.alternet.org/media/149193/stu...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Wed, Dec 15, 2010, at 9:21 PM

"Ho, ho ho! It's a bonus bonanza for Wall Street

investment bankers"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40681578/ns/...

http://in.reuters.com/article/idINIndia-...

While regular folks - the backbone of America -- struggle to put food on the table, Rockefeller and his Big Banking buddies on Wall Street are laughing at you and living high on the hog -- at your expense.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Dec 15, 2010, at 7:37 PM

"UK, not Sweden, behind efforts to keep Assange in jail: report"

"Assange's lawyers say they were lied to on effort to prevent bail"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/12/swede...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/dec...

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Dec 15, 2010, at 6:44 PM

mrxray

its even sadder to see my beloved Nation engaged in a downward spiral into fascism.

Flags don't really mean much...I guess to some folks they represent Nationalism, but I think Nationalism is a dangerous element of fascism.

So if the United Fascist Party replaces the Stars and Stripes with the swastica or not...it still is intent on establishing totalitarian fascism in the United States -- no matter the overt or covert transition to fascism and no matter what symbols they choose to represent American Fascism.

But one thing we agree on, it is sad that the Stars and Stripes is no longer a beacon of democracy but rather the symbol of a nation headed fast into the dark depths of fascism.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Dec 15, 2010, at 6:17 PM

mrxray

There are many different variations of socialism.

I prefer the Chinese model where the People own 51% of every business and recieve 51% of the profits.

This does not mean I support the Chinese Government. I believe socialism can only succeed in a Democratic, free and open society and thus until the Chinese adopt direct democracy, they will never fully achieve a fair socialist economy.

There are also other versions of socialism that seem to work very well...elements of which can be seen in Scandinavian Countries which have booming economies and strong union support.

As to what version of socialism would work best for us in America, that is something the American People will decide when the time for real change comes...but Americans will have to live under the current brutal guided captialism before they get hungry enough to demand an end to this failed economic system.

However, I really don't care one way or the other when or if Americans tire of the oppressive capitalism in the USA. I am much more concerned with the United fascist Party's attempt to squash civil rights and democracy in America.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Dec 15, 2010, at 6:12 PM

IF you look at the whole of populism, all it is is rhetorical ideals that pit the rich versus the poor. As with any idealology or theoretical concept it too ignores reality. Not all rich people care about poor people but not all rich people are total greed heads and do help the poor and working people.

IF you subscribe to one type of concept or theory then you limit yourself by each types problems and while trying to be a proponent of something that is strictly an ideal or theory, none of which applies to real life completely or adequately.

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Dec 15, 2010, at 5:59 PM

news.. you stated sometihng about a company running just to break even... that is a very arbitrary concpet. IT is subjective, as is ANY type of business plan, to the owners designation of what a person/worker, CEO and product is worth.

Or are you saying that the government should own party of or interfere with every business and dictate to them what they have to pay, what they can keep in profits and what they can charge for their products and services?

You STILL ignore the potential of something that is a popular item that provides a bigger profit than predicted. WHat then, the government just gets anything above the amount that someone says is enough of a profit for that product? Sounds like freedom to me...not

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Dec 15, 2010, at 5:55 PM

IT is sad to see someone try to compare the Stars and Stripes to the swastika.....

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Dec 15, 2010, at 5:49 PM

OKR: Not sure why you cannot just state your cause and case and discuss...have you been hanging out with NEws too much and cannot any longer oppose or discuss without such comments?

The tax code is not just geared toward corporations. IT is geared towards any entity that elected politicians might see as campaign donors OR groups that if they assist will provide campaign voting blocks where they will get the most votes for standing up and saying "See what I did for you"

It is a valid point that big corporations get big breaks. BUT it happens at every level. But on the local level it is done as enticement for a business to relocate or start up in that local and state.

The problem is that in order for your economy to grow you have to have busineeses and corporations. But the political game in DC, special interest bribery games, and the citizens apathy to this for so long has created the mess we are in. When you attempt to legislate fairness and equality and provide bailout for bad business plans and failing corporations and when when those same people are still using billions to bribe politicians then you create an environment where things are not done for the good of the nation but for the good for the politicians' bank accounts or campaign funds or the power positions after they end their political career.

"Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action."

George Washington quote

Our government for too long, has been left to its irresponsible actions.

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Dec 15, 2010, at 5:48 PM

Yep Nan,

and its because both factions of the Unified Fascist Party -- Republicans + Democrats -- are all in it together.

Neither major Party has the interests of their constituints and the American People in mind. They plan to move ahead with the fascification of America. I believe that eventually they will do away with elections in America altogether and simply rule with an iron fist. I wonder if any of our votes are actually counted nowdays anyway. I think perhaps the Masters -- The Rockefeller family and other members of the Fascist Big Banker club decide long before the election who will be the "winner" and what the outcome of the election will be.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Dec 15, 2010, at 5:32 PM

NanaDot

I had an interesting conversation with United Fascist Party Senator from Missouri, Claire McCaskill regarding the fillibuster via email.

Stormtrooper McCaskill was very clear in her rabid support for the Senate rule 22 -- the filibuster. She strongly supports it and would not even consider changing rule 22 so that legislation could come up for a straight up or down vote as the Founding Fathers intended.

Until we remove these Fascists from our government, the spiral towards totalitarian fascism will continue.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Dec 15, 2010, at 5:13 PM

mrxray

I agree that both major parties are responsible for the Fascism that now seems to exist in the USA.

That is why I only vote 3rd party now.

The United States, in my opinion, is governed by a defacto single political party -- the Unified Fascist Party. This is of course both the Democrats and the Republicans together.

These 2 fascist factions of the defacto Unified Fascist Party may squable on minor details of their fascist agenda or on how far to stick the knife into the back of the American People, but in the end they basically agree. The passage of the Bush tax cuts is certainly strong evidence of the Unification of these 2 fascist parties.

I urge everyone to break away from supporting either of the 2 major parties and vote 3rd party only. A vote for 3rd parties is an excercise in democracy but a vote for the Unified Fascist Party (Republicans + Democrats) does nothing but accelerate America's downward spiral into fascism. Given the history of the Unified Fascist Party in the USA since its first leader, President Ronald Reagan, took office to today cannot help but cause reasonable folks to wonder just how much longer will it be before Old Glory is replaced by the swastica.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Dec 15, 2010, at 5:06 PM

Check it out - the latest Gallup poll measuring public approval of Congress:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/145238/Congre...

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Dec 15, 2010, at 3:30 PM

Isn't the tax code now defined by weight?

The only way the average Joe, regardless of political view can get a break is public campaign financing. In the long run it will be much cheaper for the taxpayer when politicians will no longer be accountable to anyone other than their constituents.

Maybe that's what we the people should seek to get on the ballot for the next election cycle.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Dec 15, 2010, at 2:40 PM

It will be a fine day when everybody wakes up, and realizes that Obama does not push leftist programs so much as corporatist programs, just like all the others in the last thirty plus years.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Dec 15, 2010, at 12:35 PM

X, you said "Our taxation policy is 76,000+ pages of special interest group favoritism where tax breaks, loopholes and credits are given to various people and entities to the point where out system of taxing people is so complicated that not even the writers of the tax laws know the laws and are continually breaking them."

Right again, oh wise one.

Somehow you failed to mention that the vast majority of those 76,000+ pages are there as plums for the corporatocracy. It is just another example of the little voices of the people not being heard because they are muted by corporate roars. Eighty percent, or more of congress hear nothing else, or if they do hear the voices of the little people they pretend they do not.

Should it be changed? Absolutely, but the devil is in the details. In my opinion a good start would be to delete every part that gives tax breaks to corporations for taking jobs out of our country, and those even nastier ones that give American based corporations tax breaks for increasing their work force in foreign lands.

We need to forget right, and left where we can, and think populist.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Dec 15, 2010, at 12:06 PM

News currently the Postal Service does not make a profit and postage is inexpensive and they probably pay most of their employees more than they are worth. How does a company determine how much their employees are worth, how much to charge for their product and break even? What would be the incentive to do that year after year? Despite economic hardship the unions still want raises for the employees that already make more than they are worth. I just can't see how we determine the worth of everything across the board to make it fair for everyone without the incentive to make more money to better your lifestyle.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Dec 15, 2010, at 11:59 AM

Diversion, and avoidance instead of a trenchant answer, to my statement Xray. That is a tactic that you regularly employ. I have come to accept that as your version of concurrence.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Dec 15, 2010, at 11:14 AM

Bush's admin might have started the patriot act but Obama and his admin are increasing its usage and power immensly in various different agencies.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2010/oct201...

Nothing Obama has done has done anything except to further increase the power of the Patriot Act

Obama has close ties to Google who, with theiir Gmail, is snooping on everyone....

"Based on today's Washington Post, it appears that Google holds classified U.S. government contracts to supply search and geospatial information to the U.S. government. In addition, White House records show that Google executives have been holding meetings with U.S. national security officials for undisclosed reasons. Finally, it also appears that Google's widely criticized efforts to collect wireless network data on American citizens were not inadvertent, contrary to the company's claims."

"As history has repeatedly shown, alliances between the U.S. intelligence community and giant corporations that collect data on American citizens can be a toxic combination where the U.S. Constitution is concerned," the letter said

http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/is...

AGAIN you want to blame Bush... even though CONGRESS was also involved and you FAIL to even give Obama and the Dems credit when they oo are pushing the Patriot Act's renewal and expansion when they had TOTAL control over Congress.

Again, BOTH sides are playing the same and either you are to blinded by leftist blindfolds to see it or you intentionally ignore the facts

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Dec 15, 2010, at 10:59 AM

for someone like you News who claims to be an economist you have a limited understanding of reality compared to any type of theoretical type of economics theory. You do not even understand that government control of businesss that socialism demands would smother capitalism and infringe on the freedoms of man in several different ways. You dont understand that what America hs is not free market capitalism but a mixed economy not based on any theory but on political whims of which party can get policies pushed throughout our history.

Our taxation policy is 76,000+ pages of special interest group favoritism where tax breaks, loopholes and credits are given to various people and entities to the point where out system of taxing people is so complicated that not even the writers of the tax laws know the laws and are continually breaking them.

The simple fact that local and state and even federal entities have to provide tax breaks and credits as incentives to entice businesses must be seen as an example of how out taxation policies HARM businesses, particularly smaller and medium businesses.

Refer to an earlier post where I discussed how a single parent of 3 making 14,500 per year have a disposable income of over 30K and is a higher disposable income than a family making 60K per year. The taxation, tax credits and welfare type causes the hard working middle classes of our nation to support the non-working, oft times lazy, depressed, disincentivised people while the higher income people,

Then you always say the Republicans want to deregulate everything... that is such a stupid and false distortion and lie that the left pushes. No one wants to completely deregulate anything, unless they are a nut job beyond Ron Paul's style of thinking. But we dont have common sense guiding our regulations, in stead we have leftist liberal progressive agenda pushing policy based purely on emotional based thinking which constantly thinks up more and more entitlement programs to be funded by more and more taxation on the working tax payers of the middle class, even when there is not any money and we have to borrow from China.

Socialism does not work. Look to Europe and how all the nations there except Germany, basically are struggling and look to the EU to bail them out. Nations trying to fix their budget problems finally are seeing their costly social benefits and workers benefits as the problem so they are doing things like raising the retirement age, reduction in benefits and reduction in things the government health care will provide. In times of the down turn of the business cycle and a world-wide recession they cannot support the high cost and inefficiency of having these types of socialist programs where a FEW tax payers are paying for all people.

Socialism fails not only because of its inability to sustatin taking from the tax payer's expense to provide for the rest of society but also for the same reason capitalism has its problems.... human greed for money and power.... I am not sure why that is hard for you and those with a like mindset to understand but that is a fact jack

The trouble with you News is you subscribe to theoretical ideals and not reality and the failure of any one theory to apply to real life. You buy into the leftist propaganda that tries to make an easy and lazy arguement that rich people are all evil and care nothing about the poor people. It is a propaganda tactic that is EXACLY like using racism issues to say that anyone opposing Obama on any policy is a racist... false but stirs up emotions so you can get the ill educated and the weak minded to buy into it. Mainly because it is the Democrats that push the entitlement programs that kepp the poor people poor and do nothing to solve their real causes of their poverty but makes them think that someone is actually caring about them....yet the Dems dont care bout the individuals only the voting block.....

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Dec 15, 2010, at 10:46 AM

rr3yv0

Just imagine how inexpensive it would be if you could mail that letter using a company that is not run for profit...but rather a company that is designed to break even at the end of the year and pays its employees what they are really worth?

But frankly, my interests right now are how the conservatives in the USA want to deny us our civil rights, violate our Constitution, and establish prior restraint of our free press and how We the People can stop the conservative elite in Washington and Wall Street from succeeding in stripping us of our freedoms and liberty.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Dec 15, 2010, at 8:27 AM

News I am still reading about Democratic Socialism and one thing I read was that a business would not be solely for profit, but for the customer and general welfare of the society. Another thing mentioned was that this has never been tried in its truest form so it is mostly theoretical as to how it would work and if it would be successful. I ran across this article about the Postal Service and how they go the extra mile for the customer. Would this be a good example of the type of business you would have? They are government run though and do not allow competition for first class mail delivery. They are currently running on revenue from postage(no tax dollars) but they can't operate at a profit with declining mail volume. Could a private business continue to run at a loss as long as they are serving the customer?

Post Office goes the extra mile

http://www.stltoday.com/news/opinion/mai...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Dec 15, 2010, at 8:04 AM

What does the Supreme Court and our Constitution say about censoring the press from publishing classified information? They say its the right and obligation of news publications and providers to publish the news including classified information, and that Government has no business or right to ever excercise prior restraint in a free and open society. They say it is an unconstitutional invasion of our civil rights under the 1st Ammendment.

New York Times Versus the United States of America, 1971:

http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/avp/cas/comm/fr...

http://law.jrank.org/pages/3217/New-York...

http://www.infoplease.com/us/supreme-cou...

http://www.oyez.org/cases/1970-1979/1970...

1st Ammendment of the United States Constitution:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html...

What did our Founding Father and author of the Declaration of Independence, President Thomas Jefferson, have to say about a free press?

"The basis of our governments being the opinion of the people, the very first object should be to keep that right; and were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter. But I should mean that every man should receive those papers and be capable of reading them." --Thomas Jefferson to Edward Carrington, 1787. ME 6:57

"Our liberty cannot be guarded but by the freedom of the press, nor that be limited without danger of losing it." --Thomas Jefferson to John Jay, 1786.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Dec 15, 2010, at 7:14 AM

"Warrant needed to snoop on your emails, court finally rules"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/12/warra...

Yeah remember when the Republicans and Democrats allowed President Dubba Bush to spy on you with out a warrant?

Remember when we on the left told you it was unlawful and unconstitutional? It looks like we were correct...again.

Folks how long are we going to allow the Conservative elite in Washington rob of us of our Constitutional rights. Isn't it time we stop electing these fools who keep doing the same nonsense and expecting different results?

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Dec 15, 2010, at 6:34 AM

rr3yv0

Your reference to the conseravtive elite in Washington and their conservative masters, Big Banks and Wall Street, have nothing to do with me and I have nothing to do with them.

As to x-ray's attempt to discuss socialism (and avoid the real issue of the conservative calls to censor our press in direct violation of the 1st Ammendment), he is arguing out of ignorance and basis his argument on capitalist propaganda. I don't think he knows any more about socialism than he does about macro economics...and I pointed that out.

As to your claim about socialism, I don't think that is accurate, and much like x-ray's non-argument, it seems to be based more in capitalist propaganda and not in facts. Its kind of like learning about racism from Klansmen rather than an expert such as a socioligist. The Klan would not be a good source of objective information on racism in America and the captialists sure aren't going to provide you with objective, accurate information about socialism and probably don't know very much about socialism.

Sure governments by their very nature have to enact controls such as criminalizing theft or assault, but in a free and open Democratic society it is We the People who decide what will and will not be controlled by the Government -- a government by the People, of the People, and for the People. The only exception to this are our civil rights which exclude government control of those important aspects of our lives...such as a free press which the conservatives so strongly oppose...along with the 14th Ammendment, free speech, freedom to peacefully protest, ect...all of which the conservatives seem to want to strip us of.

Socialism is an economic system that levels the playing field for the little guy. It empowers the People and takes away power from the rich. It gives the commone man full control of his life and takes away the control the rich now have over his life.

As to how we Americans may want to structure our laws to accomodate a fair socialist economy...well that is something we need to determine in open public debates and through the election of our Representitives in Washington. It is something that We the People will determine through the normal, peaceful public debate process.

If you would like to know the suggestions of the Democratic Socialist Party then I suggest you go to their website and read up on the Party Platform. I think you will find many of your answers there.

Democratic Socialist Party

http://www.dsausa.org/dsa.html

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Dec 15, 2010, at 6:25 AM

News you say socialism is economics and I agree but from what I understand socialism would involve heavy government control or ownership in everything we do. Wouldn't that interfere with our rights and freedoms that we have now?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Dec 15, 2010, at 5:50 AM

News you have good post except for the fact that you have to tell a poster how dumb they are before you can make a point. That is a characteristic of our ruling elite in Washington. You make good points just stick to the point.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Dec 15, 2010, at 5:41 AM

Cheesehead you're theory about a Gore presidency with higher taxes and no wars, my theory would be we would all drive electric cars, ride bicycles and it wouldn't get so cold in the winter. I think Gore's hot air is the largest contributor to global warming.

Just sayin'

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Dec 15, 2010, at 5:36 AM

xray,

Your entire basis of your argument is your rather limited, rudimentary understanding of socialism and economics. I recommend you take at least 1 course in macro-economics then come talk to me about socialism. Until then, you just don't have the prerequisites necessary to carry on an intelligent discussion of capitalism and socialism.

Socialism is an economic system not a political system. However, we Americans who support Democratic Socialism strongly support civil rights and democracy, and we insist that you on the right-wing be held accountable for your attacks on the freedoms and liberties of the American People -- such as your opposition to every one of the Bill of Rights with the one exception of the 2nd Ammendment. We American Democratic Socialists have always supported our Constitution and we have always strongly held you on the right accountable to that Constitution. We will continue to do so.

Socialism is an economic system that works very well in our society already, and does not at all conflict with our Constitution. Take Social Security for example. Despite the fact that you capitlists have been borrowing from Social Security to pay for your many, many lost wars, and despite the fact that the right wing politicians have made no effort to pay back the money they borrowed to pay for their lost wars, Social Security is still making it possible for folks to retire when they can no longer work due to age. I don't know of anyone who has lost a single civil right because of Social Security...not one. Its the same with other social programs. Socialism is about empowering people and fair equity -- not profits. Socialism puts people, democracy, and our civil rights before profits.

Just today one of the elected Teabaggers stated that he supports full censureship of the Press.

" Elected tea partier Allen West calls for mass censorship of US media"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/12/tea-p...

Given this and other right-wing attempts to strip us of our civil rights, I have to ask the question,

WHY DO CONSERVATIVES HATE OUR RIGHT TO A FREE PRESS?

WHAT ARE THE REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS TRYING TO HIDE FROM THE AMERICAN PEOPLE?

Perhaps you should read more about Democratic socialism. You can learn more at the Party website:

Democratic Socialist Party of America

http://www.dsausa.org/dsa.html

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Dec 15, 2010, at 5:01 AM

xray,

It looks like you cant answer a questioning without using your radical right wing slant. Maybe thats why know one is directly debating or joining in your discussions. Your were asked about a judge and you answered with another judge.

You talk about socialism as if you know anything about except what youve heard on fox news which makes your talking points radical themselves. You do the same aabout the constituition and the economy.

-- Posted by miss october on Tue, Dec 14, 2010, at 11:31 PM

oklahoma,

Thats the truth but just think where we would be at today if they wouldn't have robbed Gore of the Presidency. We wouldn't have the bush tax cuts for the rich or the 2 wars, both of which have contributed to our deficit. We at least learned that the Republicans are only for small government when they don't have control, but when they do that goes out the window.

xray only want conservative activist judges because they will uphold the constitution besides the admendments they dont like. Shame on him he is ok with the activist judge that ruled part of the hc reform is unconstituitional.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Dec 14, 2010, at 11:14 PM

http://www.news.com.au/business/federal-...

hmmmmm

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Dec 14, 2010, at 11:03 PM

oh... GOD people who keep bringing up Gore's defeat by Bush over and over and over when a Supreme court ruled on it are no better than the birthers... LOL

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Dec 14, 2010, at 11:00 PM

X you said, " IF you knew the constitution, then you would realize that it is self limiting and what is not specified in the constitution is to be left to the individual states and locales."

So true.

If we could get rid of the activist corporate/conservative SCOTUS, that shredded the concept, stopping Florida's vote recount, and stealing the 2000 presidential election for Bush, maybe our constitution would be stronger.

As a matter of fact not only would our constitution be stronger, so would our nation, had they not have stolen the election.

I hate those right wing radical activists on the Supreme Court who are usurping settled law, and destroying the sanctity of our constitution.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Dec 14, 2010, at 10:57 PM

so you are saying that IF you are rich then YOU are the person to first determine at what income level you are to be declared rich, that all rich people are corrupt, evil and should be punished even before any crime is committed, and that no one has the right after hard work and effort to be rich.

THAT sounds like the Nation that our founders were trying to found. (Sarcasm)

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Dec 14, 2010, at 10:22 PM

This is why the rich needs to be taxed at a higher rate, so they can't buy themselves out of trouble. Hallburton has offered Nigeria 250 million to drop bribery charges against them and Cheney. This is one of the advantages of big coorparations and the wealthy.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/12/halli...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Dec 14, 2010, at 10:19 PM

He has a good sense of humor just like that of Glenn Beck. LOL I'm sorry for my generic statement LOL

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Dec 14, 2010, at 10:13 PM

a limited government as defined by the constitution precludes socialism simply by preventing the government from oppressing the freedoms and rights as defined when discussing natural rights of men. The goal was to prevent the government from becoming oppresive and interfering with every aspect of our lives. The manipulation of certain clauses while ignoring the limitations set forth in the constitution have allowed for more and more take over of bigger and bigger government to the point where the left wants to tell us how to live and even if we can live... example the refusal to allow people on government health care (Soon to be all people if Obama care is not overturned) to have life saving/extending cancer drugs that has been in the news in the lsat month(s)

Now where does the constitution authorize, in fact it limits the amount of power the federal government should have, delegating those specific powers to the states.

AND you are sadly mistaken when you attempt to blame capitalism for our problems. In NO manner would capitalism or a free market support the government confiscating more and more of the tax payer money in support of more and more INEFFICIENT government programs that fail time and time again. While it is the greed of mankind for power and money that causes the problems, when men and women are running the government that same greed for power and money exists in the government at all levels. BUT the more the government interferes the more problems it causes because the PEOPLE, who are inherently corruptable by money and power are not making rules and regs based on what is base for the nation but on how they can get re-elected..... this has NOTHING to do with capitalism and EVERYTHING to do with ignoring individual responsibility at every level and allowing our political elitist class to run amuck....

The problem is that those on the extremes of the left and the right cannot see past their theoretical ideology and that clouds how they see reality. Then add to it the distortions, lies, mistruths from BOTH political sides perpetuates the process that allows partianship and anger instead of real thought, discussion and debate based on reason and rational thinking.

We are a society, at thist time, based on emotional, knee-jerk, shallow minded thinking and as a while we allow other people to do our thinking for us.

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Dec 14, 2010, at 10:12 PM

come on Nanadot... I expected better than that from you... or maybe not.

over indulgence in over statement... examples? I love generic statements without examples... proves nothing.

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Dec 14, 2010, at 9:57 PM

mrxray

Actually, your statement is so far off base that one has to wonder how did you come to your erroneous conclusion?

Perhaps you can explain my thoughts on the Constitution in detail and then perhaps you can explain how you have determined what I think.

I fully support our Constitution. No where in our Constitution is a socialist economy prohibited...no where.

Socialism is an economic system and the American People will decide what system will work best for us. We have been using conservative, neo-classical economic policies on both sides of the political aisle for many years now, and you can see what its done to our People -- high unemployment, continual boom to bust every 5 to 6 years, a huge mass of poor-- and this in a so-called wealthy nation -- spiraling deflation, and a very bleak economic future. Many of us feel we need to stop trying to do the same thing over and over again expecting different results, and many of us think its time for a New Deal. Neoclassical guided capitalism has failed the American People -- just ask anyone looking for a job. I am sure they will be happy to let you know what they think of the current economy.

Perhaps the problem here is that you confuse capitalism and democracy. In fact, capitalism is the least democratic economic system by virture of its reliance on dollar vote -- the more dollars you have, the more votes you get. Democracy is one person/one vote. Socialism is not anti-American. No economic system is anti-American. Economic systems are how we decide economic allocation, technology, and equity and that is all. Our Nation would remain a democracy with a socialist economy too. As an economist it is my belief that socialism can only succeed in a democracy.

So please tell us x-ray how you utilize your ESP and read my mind. Tell us all how it is you have come to read my mind as it pertains to our Constitution.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Dec 14, 2010, at 9:49 PM

I am just pointing this out because the false outrage you lefties show is amusing because your side does the exact same thing.... lol

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Dec 14, 2010, at 9:46 PM

are there not rules for a judge hearing a case in which their SPOUSE is one of the members of the case or one of the legal entities representing one side of the case?

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Dec 14, 2010, at 9:45 PM

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/02...

That case did not involve stock but a liberal judge refused to recuse himself when he was married to the head of the ACLU in a gay marriage proposition in California.... when aclu was representing the main character in the case. OUTRAGE...

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Dec 14, 2010, at 9:43 PM

Regardless of the ideology aren't there rules that would prohibit a judge from participating in a case that they have any financial relationship with?

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Dec 14, 2010, at 9:42 PM

I wonder how many judges own stock..... and then hear cases that have ties to companies that they own stock in or subsidiaries of companies that they own stock in. I remeber hearing the same thing said about liberal, left leaning judges and the left just thought is was fine and dandy... lol

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Dec 14, 2010, at 9:37 PM

So the judge in Virginia that ruled against the provision that requires insurance coverage is claimed by Fox news to be non-partsian and non-biased. This is what they tell there viewers, but they know better yet they intentionally mislead its viewers.

The judge in this case owned stock in the company that brought the lawsuit against this provision. This company Campaign solutions inc worked with the Bush-Cheney camp and with the RNC.

Here is a copy of the judges financial disclosure forms that clearly show donations to this company in the year 2009 and another link which tells a little about this company in case someone wants to check this out.

http://www.judicialwatch.org/jfd/Hudson_...

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?tit...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Dec 14, 2010, at 9:28 PM

Cheesy.. the difference between Romney and other State Governors and the Federal mandate is exactly that.... it is not the job of the federal government to proclaim a mandate for all, nor is it constitutional for the federal government to force people to enroll in and/or pay for any service or goods. IF you knew the constitution, then you would realize that it is self limiting and what is not specified in the constitution is to be left to the individual states and locales.

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Dec 14, 2010, at 9:20 PM

As I said x-ray,

My patriotism is not up for debate and again, I doubt you could give a qualified political definition of the word "Liberal" as it relates to the American Political system without going to issues.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Dec 14, 2010, at 9:12 PM

rr,

That is a good question about is the mandate is pulled. The truth is the mandate for everyone to carry insurace is actually a republican idea that started with Nixon.

Romney has a similar law on the books with his healthcare plan and also Scott Brown favored this. The Republicans were for this provision until President Obama decided to push this as part of a comprimise for the right to help get support from Republicans in Congress.

So for each state which this provision is pulled from the law the citizens will receive an increase in insurace cost with the Republicans to blame as they care more about repealing healtcare reform than they do the people of this country. This provision was an alternative by the Republicans instead of having single payer.

http://www.boston.com/news/health/articl...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Dec 14, 2010, at 8:49 PM

Cheese... lol and you cannot debate someone so in love with total government control of every aspect of our lives and hatred of anything Bush and anyone rich like you on the left are and that is radicalism

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Dec 14, 2010, at 8:41 PM

wow... news. you posted blanket statements about me and RR3.. saying we are both wrong, are opinions are meaningless... way to contribute meaningfully to the conversation... LOL YET you failed to provide ANY sources for your basis for disagreeing with either of us...

practice what you preach mate

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Dec 14, 2010, at 8:37 PM

Miss October,

The #1 pick in my fantasy radical draft league is Glenn Beck. Here is a clip of him trying to recruit the special forces to his revolution. By the way if you know anyone in the special forces make sure you tell them the revolution is coming.

I have noticed the what you are posting and you can't debate with someone radicalism when they support it.

http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/20101214001...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Dec 14, 2010, at 8:35 PM

News... PS your claims and statements are nothing more than your empty opinions..meaningless... LOL I can make the exact same claim toward you. but where did that get me?

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Dec 14, 2010, at 8:35 PM

news.. I am glad you are back on here... no one does as good of a job at being arrogant and condescending as you. Just because YOU think YOU are right does not mean that you are necessarily right.

I am wondering where you are finding that I am for censureship? Me thinks you are imagining things OR you are intentionally lying.

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Dec 14, 2010, at 8:32 PM

Miss October... tis YOU who are pushing and continuing the evil discource. I asked you a simple question about howyou saw that Beck and Fox news were pushing radicalism. Instead of answering with logic and reasion you attack me. All I wanted was for you to substantiate your claim that a person or news outlet was pushing radicalism and I was wondering exactly what the radicalism was in YOUR viewpoint.

If YOU are going to make a claim of someone being radical and pusing that radicalism then you should be able to defend that position.

Just because I am asking about WHY you said something does not make me inconsistent nor necesarily someone who supports or thinks like Beck. Sad attempt at belittlement instead of a real discussion where you back something up with well thought out rationales?

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Dec 14, 2010, at 8:25 PM

xray,

I could only assume since youre questioning how Beck and Limblaw push radicalism that you prob share these views which would make this debate unworthy of having with you.

I seems to me your are making the same points against the left that were made against the Bush policies. So maybe if you would be consistant with your gripes we could be past all this fear mongering which the Republicans have done with 2 wars with no complaint from the right.

-- Posted by miss october on Tue, Dec 14, 2010, at 8:19 PM

mrxray

Again, you erroneous claims addressed to Miss October are nothing more than you empty opinion...and not based in fact.

I think maybe the problem is that you don't know what a liberal is. I doubt very much if you could provide a political definition, supported by qualified sources, of what the term "liberal" means in the American political sphere with out going to issues.

In addition, I don't know of a single piece of legislation that was promoted by the left, supported by the left, written by the left, and passed by Congress since the 1964 Civil Rights Act.

In addition, we liberals have always been the champions of freedom and liberty. We aren't the ones who passed the Patriot Act. We aren't the ones who ordered the spying on of American citizens with out a warrant and in violation of Title 50, chapter 36 and in direct violation of the 4th Ammendment. That was the right wing that did that, and it is the right wing that is now calling for censureship of the news media in direct violation of the 1st Ammendment of our Constitution.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Dec 14, 2010, at 7:31 PM

mrxray

You claims about me are nothing more than your empty opinion...which is meaningless.

My personal patriotism is not up for debate.

...and calling for censureship of the media is un-American...and anti-Constitutional...and that is exaclty what many conservativs are calling for.

However, socialism is an economic system and not a political system. It has nothing to do with the Constitution.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Dec 14, 2010, at 7:23 PM

speaking of radicalism... here is our Government trying once again to get one citizen to snitch on another citizen. Using a phone app to enable people to do this.

http://www.infowars.com/iphone-snitch-ne...

Gotta love how they use a state of fear to push policy. It is like they are scared of rational and PUBLIC debate

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Dec 14, 2010, at 7:07 PM

miss october... please explain exactly how you see Beck or Fox news as pushing radicalism. It is the LEFT that is pushing for more and more take over of individual freedoms and choices and THAT is radicalism. Demanding personal responsibility for ones own life is radical in your vie?

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Dec 14, 2010, at 7:03 PM

Cheese... exactly WHO do you think is paying for the huge and expensive obama care plan? China? Oh wait the US is out of money and is printing more imaginary money and borrowing more and more money from China... lol

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Dec 14, 2010, at 7:01 PM

news... we all know your total disregard for the US and its constitution. Otherwise you would see how socialism is against our constitution... at peast pre-leftist manipulation of the constitution to make our government bigger and bigger.

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Dec 14, 2010, at 6:59 PM

Isn't a CONSERVATIVE DEMOCRAT an oxymoron.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Dec 14, 2010, at 6:47 PM

rr3yv0

You are incorrect in your statement regarding the mandate to purchase insurance.

This was the dream child of conservative Democrats...dixiecrats if you will...such as Senator Baucus.

We on the left opposed this bill from the start since it provided no provision for socialized medicine.

In addition, this bill was promoted by the DINO (Democrat in name only), President Obama and other DINOs who are in fact conservatives.

We on the left only support socialized medicine as it is the only system that ensures that all Americans have access to all medical treatment no matter what their income level is.

It is the conservatives who crafted the mandate you are now crying about. It is the conservatives you can thank for that one.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Dec 14, 2010, at 6:39 PM

News is that kind of like easy come easy go.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Dec 14, 2010, at 6:33 PM

miss october do you believe in free speech for everyone or just a certain few?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Dec 14, 2010, at 6:32 PM

Miss October,

Yeah well I knew from the beginning that the teabaggers were in fact the conservative, fascist wing of the Republican Party.

Their leaders have always opposed our liberty and freedoms and this is not the first time they have openly said that they oppose our Constitution and especially the 1st Ammendment.

The Teabagger party is anti-American and such is quite obvious by their opposition to our cherished American traditions such as a free and open press free from any form of prior restraint.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Dec 14, 2010, at 6:32 PM

So cheesehead if this mandate is pulled then who would you blame the right or the ones that put the mandate in the bill which would be the left. Just curious then who you would blame for the theoretical price increase. Right now it is just a theory.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Dec 14, 2010, at 6:31 PM

News,

Here all this time I though the Tea Party was fighting for our freedoms. Well I guess that was the wrong thing to do. If anybody should be censored it should be Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh they lie to Amercians on a daily basis along with trying to influence radicalism.

-- Posted by miss october on Tue, Dec 14, 2010, at 5:18 PM

mrxray

There is no significant differnce between the Democrats or the Republicans.

I oppose both parties. I condem both Democrats and the Republicans, and I only vote 3rd Party.

I don't support anti-American behavior or anti-American political parties.

I DO SUPPORT freedom, our Constitution, and our liberty.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Dec 14, 2010, at 5:14 PM

xray,

1 out of 3 judges have ruled it unconstituitional, so thats still not good odds at getting it repealed. If by chance they did have to drop the mandate for coverage which is what this ruling is based on it would cause the insurance companies to raise the cost more than it is now.

So those on the right should be careful in supporting this because if this mandate is pulled its the American people who will be paying for this out of their pocket.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Dec 14, 2010, at 5:07 PM

glad to see at least on federal judge has the guts to stand up to the Obama socialist agenda and denounce obama care as being unconstitutional

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Dec 14, 2010, at 4:56 PM

LOL News... Hatred of the constitution is not exclusive to the right... look how many leading Dems ignore the consititution and think the government had the power and the right to control any and everything... from happy meals to soda and salt. and who can own a house and have a mortgage no matter their financial risk? lol

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Dec 14, 2010, at 4:42 PM

"Elected tea partier Allen West calls for mass censorship of US media"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/12/tea-p...

Yeah I know I am not surprised to hear a Bagger calling for the abolishment of our 1st Ammendement right to a a free press unhendered by prior restraint.

Why do the Baggers hate our freedoms?

Why do the Baggers hate our Constitution?

Why are the Baggers afraid of a free press?

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Dec 14, 2010, at 3:47 PM

Thanks Okr. I figured maybe you guys could use some help lol lol....oh wait, you are pretty good at holding your own lol lol lol...

...and rr...things change...its just the way it goes mate lol lol...

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Dec 14, 2010, at 3:33 PM

News seems appropriate to me that you return at this time. Couldn't wait to get the wrapper off the link you presented. Ho Ho Ho.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Dec 14, 2010, at 11:47 AM

Hey news welcome back I'm a little surprised after you said you would not patronize MDC.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Dec 14, 2010, at 11:35 AM

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

United States Constitution, 1st Ammendment

"In the First Amendment, the Founding Fathers gave the free press the protection it must have to fulfill its essential role in our democracy. The press was to serve the governed, not the governors. The Government's power to censor the press was abolished so that the press would remain forever free to censure the Government."

New York Times vs United States of America, 1971, Justice Black, Majority Opinion.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Dec 14, 2010, at 6:14 AM

"Julian Assange: Readers' Choice for TIME's Person of the Year 2010"

http://newsfeed.time.com/2010/12/13/juli...

And rightly so. Jullian Assange is a hero of the People and a champion of freedom of the press.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Dec 14, 2010, at 6:04 AM

hey... how many old people who saw Clinton at the President's 'puplit" the other day had to be treated for confusion and changes in mental status because they thought Obama was President but then saw Clinton being lead-like and had a flash back? LOL

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Dec 13, 2010, at 7:58 PM

Come on Cheesy...

When you attemtp to make a statement that says Bush tax cuts failed... you ignore reality. Bush STILL had policies that created jobs EVEN WITH the 9/11 attack on our financial area and EVEN WITH jobs lost during Katrina and the recession caused by LIBERAL PROGRESSIVE ideals that said home ownership was a RIGHT even if you had horrible finanicial histories and were a big risk.

Bush was able to be job market friendly with his tax cuts and people knew wht their tax burdens were going to be and even with the horrible attacks on 9/11 and the other events that caused jobs to be lost there was confidence in the administration that ensured job creators to invest their money in expand businesses and start new ones...

NOW we have ever changing tax rates, unsure and irratic behavior on the current admin and total HATRED of the wealthy people and stirring up class warfare and racism issues as a means to attempt to push policy and NOT to honestly adress social issues.

AND you lefties parrot the talking heads with out any real self thought.

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Dec 13, 2010, at 7:56 PM

Makes you wonder why any Dem is for any tax cut.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Dec 13, 2010, at 5:23 PM

"Now that Obama and Co-President Clinton have confessed that they were dead wrong on the Bush tax rates, it would be a good time for them to admit they were dead wrong about Obamacare bending the cost curve down and saving Americans $2500 on their premiums. It'd be a good time to admit their stimulus bill was a slush fund, a good time to admit that Bush and Cheney were right about Gitmo." -Rush

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Dec 13, 2010, at 5:22 PM

"If the Democrats believe Clinton's tax increases led to a boom economy and Bush's tax cuts destroyed the economy, why do they want to extend the Bush tax rates?" -Rush

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Dec 13, 2010, at 5:20 PM

Its all right wing propaganda. If anybody remembers the economy was doing great under Bill Clinton and the tax rates were higher for the rich then.

The economy tanked after the Bush tax cuts were enacted and resulted in 2 recessions so there is no proof that tax cuts for the rich will do anything, but give them more money to put back to save or take vacations.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Mon, Dec 13, 2010, at 12:35 PM

Like it or Not: Mexico is America's Next Afghanistan

http://www.redstate.com/laborunionreport...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Dec 13, 2010, at 6:36 AM

I know xray I love global warming too. I do my part and cut down trees and burn them to hear my house just as God intended.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Dec 13, 2010, at 6:35 AM

I LOVE global warming!!!!!

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Dec 12, 2010, at 10:32 PM

People on the left say that entitlements to not entice people to NOT work... AND they say that the middle class needs to pay more and that the middle class is not being punished by the current approach of the leftist administration of Obama and the Dems prior to the Nov election. Here is some data that says you are wrong.

This link shows you that a single parent family of three has MORE disposable income than a family making 60K per year after you figure in all the tax credits and welfare type payments and assistance that the lower income family can obtain.

http://www.marklevinshow.com/goout.asp?u...

You can complain because it is from Mark Levin OR you can read the data and discuss that information logically. you know which approach I will have more respect for.. .LOL

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Dec 12, 2010, at 8:04 PM

Miss October... explain me this...

IF you want the rich to be taxed at an overall rate of 80 or 90% (Or whatever high rate of tax you think is "fair") then how do you think that this does not HURT our economy?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Dec 12, 2010, at 8:00 PM

The US has the HIGHEST corporate in the industrial world.

American businesses, large and small and across all industries pay from 35% to 41.6% of their income in combined state and federal taxes. The 41.6% maximum rate is scheduled to rise to 46.2% in 2010 when President Obama's promised tax increases are implemented. Compare that to socialist France where companies pay only 34.4% in taxes, to China where the rate is 25%, or Russia which levies a mere 24%. Corporations in Ireland, Europe's fastest growing economy for the

last 18 years, pay just 12.5% in taxes.

When compared to other OECD countries:

24 US states have a corporate tax rate higher than top-ranked Japan.

32 states have a corporate tax rate higher than third-ranked Germany.

46 states have a corporate tax rate higher than fourth-ranked Canada.

All 50 states have a corporate tax rate higher than fifth-ranked France.

Among other surprises, all 50 US states have a combined corporate tax rate higher than even Italy, Spain, United Kingdom, Greece, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Austria, Switzerland, Denmark, Hungary, New Zealand, Australia, Mexico, Turkey, and South Korea. All 50 US states have higher tax rates than 27 of the other OCED countries.

In the midst of a serious global economic slowdown, with devastating reductions in corporate profits, accelerating business bankruptcies, and massive corporate layoffs, many state lawmakers are working to increase tax rates and fees on corporations and businesses. Concurrently, the White House and a majority of representatives in Congress are promising more tax increases and the elimination of many tax credits. Instead of helping US companies be more competitive and profitable and thereby allow the US economy to remain the job creating engine and economic driver of the world, our politicians are punishing and handicapping them. What could they be thinking?

Looking toward 2010, if President Obama and Congressional Democrats keep their promises, we will witness the once unthinkable: free-market America will tax its companies at 46.2%, almost double the rate of state-controlled China at 25%. As the world's largest economies continue to embrace lower corporate tax rates, a friendlier business environment, and greater prosperity for their people, the US will move backwards to the failed policies of the past, of punitive taxation and mediocre growth at best.

HOW do you expect the economy of the US to grow when we are TAXING our way out of competition? How do you expect corporations competing in a global economy to NOT ship jobs overseas and even move their business overseas where they would have a much more competitive corporate tax rate than they do in the US? How do you expect corporations to be willing to expand their hirings IN THE US when they can reduce their tax burden and their employee expense in other nations that have a much better rate of taxation and pay?

You liberals whine about rich people needing to be taxed more but look at what YOU are doing to our nation!!!

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Dec 12, 2010, at 7:57 PM

RR3... it IS a spending problem not a tax problem. What those claiming that our economy grew during a time with higher taxes are forgetting is that there was less spending, budget cuts and reduction of troops to a level that we cannot adequately defend ourselves without severely overburdening our existing troops.

They want MORE and HIGHER taxes so they can push continued corrupt and wasteful and unnecessary spending on pet projects for their special interest groups and the only way is to PUNISH the rich people so that they can continue the cycle of tax more, spend more, tax more irresponsibility. BUT the Dems and Leftist DO NOT CARE that they are bankrupting our society and our nation and weakening our nation and puting at risk the security and safety of our entire nation. By spending spending spending and increasing entitlements when there is NO MONEY available to increase spending, they have to turn to the very nations that hate us and wish us harm and nations that OPPRESS their people, refusing them freedom or even the bare necessities like safe working environments.

IF it were not for the sad shape of our nation, it would be amusing to watch them spend their way into oblivion so that the logical, reasonable, conservative approach would become once again something that people viewed as normal, you know the approach of spending nothing more than you HAVE and limited government that does not interfere in every single decision of its people, and allows hard working people and those with the innovations and instintual business sense to keep what they EARN.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Dec 12, 2010, at 7:50 PM

Those 10 items I listed are the 10 planks of the Communist manifesto.

If you do some research into the different ways our government is accomplishing these goals you can actually see how the liberal progressive agenda is NOT American but something that was being pushed from communist influences outside of America from the late 1800s and especially in the early 1900s

Willing and useful Dupes is what the Communists in Russia called liberals in America because they willingly bought into their propaganda about their Potemkin villages and the fake economies and fake socialist communes that they presented to the world while the REAL common folk were in soup lines and treated horribly with NO freedom of anything.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Dec 12, 2010, at 7:42 PM

I see it as a spending problem not a tax problem. This country will never tax itself out of a deficit unless spending is controlled. Until that happens it won't matter who we have in office.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Dec 12, 2010, at 7:28 PM

rr,

Maybe when there are millions of people struggling that do have jobs and do take personel responsibilty, yet we have one major party pushing everything they aside just to get the rich tax cuts um I think thats a problem.

I dont think they can 1 month make an argument that we our taxing our childrens' future by running up so much debt, then want to add 700 billion towards the deficit. We are calling them on it and they should do this when they have control if they want it so bad that way they cant put the blame on the Dems in congress.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Sun, Dec 12, 2010, at 6:57 PM

Wow you all are up in arms about the Repubs giving tax breaks to the rich and if it passes nothing has changed so they have done nothing Dems or Repubs. I mean what would change basically all they are doing is paying people to not work for another year. I mean we all ought to be proud of that.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Dec 12, 2010, at 4:58 PM

You know wtf some on here think they are smarter than other posters kind of like the ruling class dems think of the middle class. They actually believe it but they are sadly mistaken.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Dec 12, 2010, at 4:54 PM

Wow the Republicans have stepped all over themselves to make sure the rich get tax rates.

If you listen to right wingers you would never guess that this great country not only survived, but flourished under much higher tax rates then we have now. They want you to think that over time taxes have increased when its exactly the opposite.

If for over ten years middle class wages have went down but the income of the wealthy keeps going up we know that something is wrong with our economic system.

-- Posted by miss october on Sun, Dec 12, 2010, at 12:46 PM

MrXray, if I'm not mistaken, those are quotes from the book, "Confucius Says..."

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Dec 11, 2010, at 10:42 PM

mrxray ; No, but it sounds like where this late great nation is headed.

-- Posted by US male on Sat, Dec 11, 2010, at 8:24 PM

Do you know where this list comes from?

1. Abolition of private property and the application of all rents of land to public purposes.

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.

4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.

5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.

6. Centralization of the means of communications and transportation in the hands of the State.

7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state, the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.

8. Equal liability of all to labor. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.

9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries, gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equitable distribution of population over the country.

10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Dec 11, 2010, at 4:49 PM

rr3yvo

That's how it ought to be framed, huh? It doesn't matter if it's total B.S., does it? That's Rush for you.

You know what's really sad is at times you almost come off as someone who is too smart to fall for all that drivel. Sadly, I'm mistaken.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Dec 11, 2010, at 10:13 AM

"If we were on the ball and if the Republicans were on the ball, the question being asked would be, why are the Democrats trying to take away unemployment extensions here at Christmas? That's how this ought to be framed." -Rush

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Dec 11, 2010, at 8:49 AM

I think we should let the tax rates go up January 1st the Democrats have had two years to fix it and they haven't. Let the new congress fix it and they can if the Republican leadership will let them.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Dec 11, 2010, at 8:45 AM

Wikileaks finds nothing on Sarah Palin. http://www.borowitzreport.com/2010/12/05...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Dec 11, 2010, at 1:16 AM

Ron Paul, champion of liberty, defends wikileaks on house floor. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/10...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Dec 11, 2010, at 1:00 AM

Now xray you know we can't have people responsible for their own choices or decisions we are too dumb for that and it wouldn't be politically correct. Oh if you have people making their own choices then they might vote for a conservative or even worse a Republican and we just couldn't have that now could we.

Note to libs this is sarcasm but not far from the truth.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Dec 10, 2010, at 10:59 PM

Well I have to give a thumbs up to the Independant Senator from Vermont. He spent 8 1/2 hour speech against the Republican-Obama tax cut plan that only they have agreed on.

I guess those on the right don't mind borrowing more money from China and Russia. I wish there were more politicians speaking out against the tax cuts like Bernie Sanders. I guess xray cant really complain about this because if you try to read all the posts on here you will be this long reading his post, but there are not as interesting so Im sure no one is reading all of his 20 paragraphs he posted in a row.

http://www.cspan.org/Watch/Media/2010/12...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Fri, Dec 10, 2010, at 8:36 PM

OKR... As for OK Bombing.

I find it funny how different disasters and tradgedies are treated differently. I am not assigning blame or anything... just an observation.

Nashville was flooded horribly and the Federal government did not rush and 'fix' things and we barely heard about it on the news.

Same can be said for flooding in Minnesota and Iowa. The same can be said for the OK Bombing.

I wonder if the way the different disasters are viewed and treated are a reflection of things like who got involved with the reaction to these disasters. That is why it is important for local and states to have funds available to react and take care of any potential disaster... instead of spending money on frivolous things or corrupt and wasteful entitlements

-- Posted by mrxray on Fri, Dec 10, 2010, at 7:59 PM

And as I always say, Republicans AND Democrats are guilty of spending money that we dont have on programs that provide ways for people to not have to address their own mistakes and choices and spend money on wasteful things that the federal government has no business spending money on.

-- Posted by mrxray on Fri, Dec 10, 2010, at 7:52 PM

RR3...and JHH... it is simple. the Left views taxation as something akin to being Robin hood. However, they work the system and the tax rules and laws to favor special interst groups so that we now have over 76000 pages of tax laws just at the federal level. No one can understand them all and we know that the leading Dems cannot follow them even though they sit on the tax writing committees.

They view money we earn as something that is a gift to us and not something we earn. They veiw the money that the government taxes us for as somehow a god given right to the government. That is why leaving the tax rate the SAME as the bush era Tax cuts were is being manipulated into them saying that the repubs want to give us another tax rate... again it is leaving the tax rate the SAME... if they change the tax rates to what they were Before these tax cuts then it is a TAX INCREASE.

Again, they view revenue toward the government as someone else's money and therefore they do not see the need to be responsible for it nor to ONLY spend on the absolute necessities. Were we only spending on the things that the constitution limits the government to spend money on AND if we the Career corrupt, elitist politicians and special interest groups viewed spending the hard working tax payers money that is confiscated from them as something SCARED and that should only be spent wisely, THEN and only thing can we begin to solve our economic woes and our social problems. IF we attached individual responsibility and consequences at every level, for all choices that people make in their lives then we would not have the need for a blanket type emergency rescue program for every aspect of our lives.

It is MUCH MUCH easier to make a blanket type government program where you take from the rich and attempt to give to the poor than it is to make anyone feel somewhat uncomfortable by making the own their OWN mistakes and choices... and for a bonus you get people to vote for you when you dont make the people be responsible for their own choices and decisions.

-- Posted by mrxray on Fri, Dec 10, 2010, at 7:51 PM

lol SO nanadot.. you too have posted long messages... so how much are YOU getting paid?

-- Posted by mrxray on Fri, Dec 10, 2010, at 7:39 PM

Cheesehead... at least for now America is free. As such YOU have the FREEDOM to NOT read what I post. LOL

As for factual or not. PROVE with an unbiased source some specific thing that I stated was not true.

Are you saying that the money earned by private citizens and businesses are NOT the property of those who make the money, work for the money or own the businesses? Are you saying that any money earned belongs to the government instead of the people owning and working in businesses?

I mean, the last few things I posted were regards to taxation and how the taxes confiscated from the people by the government does not belong to the politicians nor special interest groups.

So come one ONE thing that you think I stated that is false.

-- Posted by mrxray on Fri, Dec 10, 2010, at 7:37 PM

OKR: IF, as you say, it will take 8 year to recover from Bush... then it will take at least 8-10 years to recover from the Obama Administration... again RECORD decifit for November... and for his almost two terms.

-- Posted by mrxray on Fri, Dec 10, 2010, at 7:33 PM

Zeke there was none of that when the OKC bombing occurred. No big pay outs to anyone, and few demanded. I have pondered those differences over the years, and come to the conclusion that scale, and geography had a bearing in the difference between the OKC, and NYC occurrences.

The number killed was smaller, and it certainly did not happen in a national media center. We all know that the farther away we are from a tragedy, the less it stirs our empathy.

Some say (especially here, and especially among the self righteous) that it is because Okies are better people. I ain't buyin that one. People are people.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Dec 10, 2010, at 10:51 AM

cheesey

concerning the 9-11 vote ...

the owners of the buildings (or their insurance carriers) - along with the employers of those working in the buildings - should be responsibilbe for restitution and ongoing medical care for the survivors - and except in the case of those forced by the incident to go on medicare and medicaid - the federal government should not be burdened with the payouts. that's why we pay insurance premiums to insure buildings, etc., and that's why employers have to work hard at making complex benefits plans for employers - to insure their safety and wellbeing should something happen WHILE THEY ARE ON THE JOB. that would include the rescuers and firefighters - preseumably employed by the city of new york or the port authority. I am sure they paid insurance and many had union benefits as well. an interesting side note would be to see a comparison between the amount insurance companies take in each year and the amount they actually pay out. i am sure it would take our breath away.

just sayin

zeke

-- Posted by zeke on Fri, Dec 10, 2010, at 10:00 AM

Sounds like the troops are turning against their leader. Two years ago who would have thunk it?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Dec 10, 2010, at 6:39 AM

The Lamest Duck?

http://www.redstate.com/dan_mclaughlin/2...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Dec 10, 2010, at 6:38 AM

I sure hope that we get a good, and strong president in 2012. I do not think that we can survive after twelve years of atrocious administration, unless we do get someone other than a corporate sycophant.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Dec 10, 2010, at 12:41 AM

Mr. XRay you said, "OKR... I can point and twist stats and figures around and make them mean what I want. Economists, politicians, stataticians and talking heads do it all the time.

The whole issue of comparing one admins term to another is never accurate because many things are left out of the comparision..."

You have a point. Why bother? I think I will just let this stuff go for a while, you twist it one way, I twist it another, it is fruitless.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Dec 10, 2010, at 12:23 AM

It will take at least twenty years to clean up the disaster that eight years of Bush Administration malfeasance caused.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Dec 10, 2010, at 12:15 AM

The war in Iraq continues for U. S. Forces despite the supposed end to engagement, and fifty thousand troops left there for "training" purposes. http://www.military-world.net/Iraq/4692....

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Dec 10, 2010, at 12:12 AM

xray,

Is there really a need to post 2 pages of non factual info on this blog. Could please in your future post get to the point in your posts? It seems like 6 posts and 25 paragraphs in a row posted by you really bogs down the discussions here. Not sure if you want a discussion or if you want to own this board. Maybe you should ask for your own?

-- Posted by cheesehead on Thu, Dec 9, 2010, at 3:54 PM

Today the Republicans in the Senate blocked a vote on a bill that would have helped those who got sick due to exposure of dust at the World Trade Center. The bill failed 3 votes short of passing.

I find it concerning that many Republicans hopefully not all believe that its ok to deny the unemployed benefits and victims of the 9/11 terror attacks some help with their medical care. However there main concern is with giving the rich tax cuts.

Are there any Right wingers that participate that find this concerning also or do Fox news and Rush talk you out of having any concerns and sideing with the rich folks on Wall street. When will we stop finding excuses to forget about those who need help instead of fighting for those who have everything they need in life.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/09...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Thu, Dec 9, 2010, at 3:47 PM

I am not saying that I dont nor that I do Agree with Rush with any or all of what he says. BUT to state that if YOU dont like RUSH then no one else should either, nor should they post anything that you THINK Rush said or that they should not post links to Rush is simply arrogant...

Sort of like saying that Since I think I am right then everyone else is wrong so NEVER post or talk about anything that MIGHT disagree with me...

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Dec 9, 2010, at 2:54 PM

IF nancy pelosi cared about POOR AMericans she would not spend 100,000s of dollars on plastic surgery and instead she would accept her natural looks and doanted that money to POOR People and to CHarities and to the government programs that she claimes to love that are for poor people... HYPOCRITS.

Instead lets create class warfare and blame the rich for everything... but wait.... aint Pelosi Rich?

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Dec 9, 2010, at 2:39 PM

OKR... I can point and twist stats and figures around and make them mean what I want. Economists, politicians, stataticians and talking heads do it all the time.

The whole issue of comparing one admins term to another is never accurate because many things are left out of the comparision.... often they take the whole Bush terms and say he lost more jobs but do not also say that no other President had 9/11 and Katrina and two wars and some Wall street type frauds AND the whole falsely inflated housing market that was pushed by DEMOCRAT policies starting way back with Carter and pushed by CLinton and warned about by Bush and McCain... Where Demss stepped up to the mike and claimed that the housing market and fannie and freddie were fine.

But the simple economic fact is this.... Even rich people have a limited, or finite, amount of money. If you make 1 million dollars and we set the overall tax rate, after you figure all taxation in, to 90% then that person only has 100K left. Now if you are a millionaire, reality is that you are only a 100Kanaire... Now who will spend more money on goods and services, a person with 100K of spendable money or a person with a million? Because the millionaire who is left alone has more money available to spend, EVEN IF HE IS NOT creating jobs by starting a business or expanding a business, he is creating jobs by spending the 900K than the millionaire who is taxed at 90% does not have. The more money you have the more money you spend so automatically the more stimulus you provide to the economy, the more jobs, the more TRICKLE DOWN jobs you created simply by spending YOUR OWN MONEY.

The Government can NEVER spend our money as efficiently as individuals and private entities can. WHY? Because there is no sense of ownwership by the people making the taxation and spending decisions because it is not money coming out their pockets.

You can twist reality and attempt to throw theoretical economic ideas around all you want that that does not make it right nor reality.

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Dec 9, 2010, at 2:35 PM

LOL Any increase in welath that the rich have gotten in the past 2 years was because of progressive liberal ideals of huge businesses being too huge to fail and being bailed out even though in the financial industry, those bailed out were often the CAUSE Of the economic crash and the greedy actions that took advantage of the liberal progressive program of saying that ALL people regardless of their financial risk should have the RIGHT to own a home....

Most of thoses CEOs support Democrats and Obama and got benefits from the Democrat COngress and Obama's admin. Funny isnt it? The whole Class warfare that the Dems are trying to push is a false argument because the DEMS are the ones currently doing things to favor the rich and greedy and huge business that are more likely to be uncaring toward their working people and only care about profits.

Consider this... who has the money that we are borrowing to support any and all spending and entitlements and budget items right now? NOT THE POOR PEOPLE.

The RICH, be it AMericans buying Bonds or whatever, or other nations with money to lend. The money, the interest payments are NOT going to help the poor or the working class the spending of trillions we do not have are only working to build the wealth or nations that hate us or do not care one way or another about us, OR to RICH AMERICANS getting richer.

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Dec 9, 2010, at 2:22 PM

You people, like nanadot, act like just because you are rich that you no longer have the right to your OWN property and wealth and that if somehow you have a 1040 IRS form that states you made 250K or 150K or 1 million dollars then you no longer have the right to property or the pursuit of happiness.

You view taxation as something that is owed by virtue of being rich and that if you are under a SUBJECTIVE dollar amount of annual income then you are automatically being oppressed by those you deem rich.

You act as if the GOVERNMENT and the CORRUPT politicians have the RIGHT to OUR Money and that the Rich people should be willing to give up 100% of their money to support any and all funding and wasteful spending that the liberal progressives can dream up.

IT has been said that if there is something that is IMPORTANT enough to be funded by taxing US citizens, then ALL people should be WILLING to have their income/wealth confiscated equally. IF it is not important enough for ALL people to be WILLING to contribute to then there is probably something in the program or project that is suspect. AND if you ever have looked at the federal budge then you KNOW there is TONS of things in there that should not be.

Maybe instead of trying to increase revenue for federal usage by increaseing taxes on the wealthy (Which has NEVER worked long term) we should really be serious about being responsible with the money that the government is FORCABLY taking away from ALL PEOPLE.

I mean look at how you liberal progressives are trying to frame the argument about Bush era tax CUTS.... you are saying that by keeping those rates as they currently are that somehow this equates a TAX CUT.... how is keeping the rates as they currently are a TAX CUT? LOL THe ONLY way you can justify this type of rationale is if you veiw taxation as something that should only be done to the rich and ONLY if you view taxation as something that the GOVERNMENT has a RIGHT to instead of something that should be used for only bare necessities to run our nation. and you can never tell me that we should be taxing people to build turtle tunnels..... or funding for educating CHINESE hookers in CHINA to drink responsibly on the job. two examples of the 100,000s of examples in the federal budget

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Dec 9, 2010, at 2:14 PM

Nanadot... LOL I love it when someone just makes a blanket statement... as we ALL know, you can twist around stats and figures and make the end results mean ANYTHING you want.

BUT the fact STILL remains, RICH people are consumers just like you and I. EVEN IF they dont own a business, or done expand businesses they own or dont start up jobs to create new jobs, THEIR WEALTH DOES. When they buy the yacht, the manion, the fancy cars, jet planes, fancy foods, wines, or any other type of item, they are TRICKLING DOWN wealth to those who manufacture goods, provide services, transport, grow, store, and function in the beginning, middle or end of providing those products.

SO the trickle down can be in the form of rich people investing in businesses that they think are strong, starting up new business, OR just by being consumers of lots and lots of items and services, they are the source of wealth growth for the entire nation.

Simply by consuming MORE and BIGGER is a stimulus to the economy and if the government CONFISCATES THEIR MONEY (in essence, their property) then they have less money to spend/stimulate the economic growth of a HUGE and wide ranging portions of our economy.

In 1990 Congress implimented a 10% tax on yachts over 100K and planes over 250K. This caused the yacht building industry and all the suppliers and retailers to suffer severely, lay offs, businesses going under and sales practically stopped. WHY? Because the government (LIBERAL) decided they could confiscate MORE of the RICH people's money and that they thought no one would notice and that the economy would not suffer... But who suffered? The rich people who did not buy a yacht? NOPE the working class people who built the boat and supplied the parts.

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/02/07/busine...

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Dec 9, 2010, at 2:07 PM

FDA Set To Cut Off 17,000 Women Annually From Lifesaving Drug

http://www.redstate.com/cringinghere/201...

Soooooooo how's that Obamacare workin for ya! Would it be different if the Repubs were doing this? Probably!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Dec 9, 2010, at 6:37 AM

Liberal-someone that wants you to follow the rules but doesn't want the rules to apply to them. ---rr3yv0

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Dec 8, 2010, at 10:48 PM

"How about reparations for the unemployed, a Social Security-like retirement program for them? Get all the economic stimulus from that. It's not their fault they don't have jobs. It's society's fault." -Rush

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Dec 8, 2010, at 10:42 PM

Thank you okr I glad you get it. I can respect you for that.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Dec 8, 2010, at 10:41 PM

I talked to a guy that has been unemployed about 6 months and he told me his unemployment check was only $10 less than what he brought home when he was working. He no longer had to buy gas to get to work so he got a pay raise to be unemployed. He said he was in no hurry to go back to work. I guess not. I know all that are unemployed are drawing much less than working but think about how many are content sitting at home drawing rockin chair money.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Dec 8, 2010, at 10:39 PM

I don't pull punches rr3. You have absolutely no credibility with me, and I do not respect you.

You continue to put Rush quotes (unadorned), on the blog just to annoy people. you have been asked not to, and know that it is neither good form, nor policy on this blog. That is what a jerk does.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Dec 8, 2010, at 10:29 PM

Just goes to show it depends on where you get your news whether it is right or left.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Dec 8, 2010, at 10:28 PM

rr3, and here is a Reuters poll from yesterday, 12-07-10 wherein Rush had the lowest approval rating of anyone, including the villified Nancy Pelosi. LOL

I did note that on Rush's own website he claimed a 60% approval rating. As he is your primary source of "credible news" I now understand why you believed that a majority approved of him.

Sad. http://blogs.reuters.com/frontrow/2010/1...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Dec 8, 2010, at 10:15 PM

That poll shows 19% favorable among libs but 47% among Repubs. Do you think that is representative of the nation? If you read the complete poll 40% Don't know or Don't have an opinion so I would say it could go either way.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Dec 8, 2010, at 10:08 PM

Okr I guess I will take your comments of endearment as a badge of honor. Oh yeh respect is one of the rules. Also I am not like other posters and don't want to be that would be kind of boring. Like I have said before Eric and others that police this blog do fine job and I will trust he will tell me what I should or shouldn't do or delete my post. I have no problem with that. Now I know cheesehead doesn't like Rush but he respectfully posted about the issue mentioned in the quotes. Now I can respect that.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Dec 8, 2010, at 9:58 PM

Not my opinion, it is the people's opinion. Here is one wherein he has a 19% approval rating. ROFLMAO!

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-4...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Dec 8, 2010, at 9:52 PM

rr3 you talk a good game on religion, but then you ask what Jesus has to do with what you post here. Somehow you had given me the impression that Jesus had to do with every thing about you. I hadn't heard about your "kings x" before.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Dec 8, 2010, at 9:45 PM

Hey okr maybe you need to read my post about hate speech on the religious blog. What does Jesus have to do with what I post here. What poll shows the majority thinks Rush is a jerk? Your opinion? That's not a majority.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Dec 8, 2010, at 9:37 PM

I guess is doesn't matter that this country added jobs for 53 months straight when the Bush tax cuts were passed.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Dec 8, 2010, at 9:31 PM

Man okr sorry I upset you so but stick to the issues your opinion of me doesn't matter.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Dec 8, 2010, at 9:28 PM

rr3, the majority of the people of this nation think that Rush Limbaugh is a jerk, and ignore his lying radio rants.

If he is generally considered a jerk, what would you call someone who ignores the general rule on this blog that postings on it are to feature original content, and instead posts only Rush quotes, with no original content by the poster?

In my opinion it would be super jerk.

I note that there are no posters on the left who post in a similar manner, i. e. Bill Maher, Keith Olberman. I further note that there are no other posters on the right who do what you do with Rush, or other right wing incendiaryists.

Maybe that is why people such as JHH, and Mr. Xray receive respect, and you do not.

Further, have you asked yourself what Jesus would do in this situation? Apparently not, I guess you figure this is one place you don't want to emulate the one you call Lord, and Savior. Just remember that you believe God is watching you with all six eyes.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Dec 8, 2010, at 9:22 PM

rr,

I guess if listen to Rush you already know that the Bush tax cuts will add millions of jobs right that will lead to many of those receiving unemployment checks having jobs. LOL

I dont think unemployment checks will pay the bills formany of those receiving them, but I do agree that 13 months is too long. Again if the Republicans and Obama were serious about cutting the deficit they would oppose tax cuts and unemployment checks. I do think we could give unemployment checks for a couple of months after all this is the working class right.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Wed, Dec 8, 2010, at 8:23 PM

By popular demand more Rush quotes.

"Liberals attempt through judicial activism what they cannot win at the ballot box" -Rush

"No nation ever taxed itself into prosperity." -Rush

"Liberal Democrats are inexorably opposed to tax cuts, because tax cuts give people more power, and take away from the role of government." -Rush

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Dec 8, 2010, at 3:24 PM

If people knew then what they now know about Barak Obama, our president might be wearing pant suits!! I guess this is how that "hope and change" thing will play out!!! Dems better watch out for 2012!

-- Posted by OldOwl on Wed, Dec 8, 2010, at 3:07 PM

How many are proud to be paying people in America not to work for 3 years?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Dec 8, 2010, at 2:52 PM

Okr I'm sorry that is the best response of any substance you can come up with.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Dec 8, 2010, at 2:47 PM

Rr3 I am sorry to see you have depleted your supply of original comments, and are again down to posting quotes from Rush. Garbage in, garbage out.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Dec 8, 2010, at 11:10 AM

I'll 2nd that. Also, I personally really can't complain too much this year. I'll be dropping all my family and only have myself on the plan this year. My employer pays for me so my actual cost will be zero. Still, benefits have gone way down.

Cheesehead,

our prices are locked in for a year and change every year in January. Maybe it's just not your time yet. If that's not it, then please, do us and your insurance carrier a favor by letting us know who it is.

-- Posted by Philemon on Wed, Dec 8, 2010, at 11:00 AM

cheesehead if your skeptical of the amount my cost has gone up I would be glad to show the paper work, we could meet and I would be glad to show you my check stubs of course you will have to wait until I get my first check with the new rate.

-- Posted by Gal66 on Wed, Dec 8, 2010, at 7:47 AM

"I hate the fact that this unemployment extension, which is a disincentive to work that's harmful to the people on it, is 13 months. Republicans coulda hung in there for six. Thirteen takes us back to Christmastime next year and -- Guess what? -- they're gonna be extended again because Republicans won't want to be called Scrooge or the Grinch." -Rush

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Dec 8, 2010, at 7:14 AM

Obama didn't compromise he surrendered and the dems don't like it so they are going to threaten the American people with a tax increase. Want higher taxes keep voting Democrat.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Dec 8, 2010, at 7:12 AM

Humor, read at your own risk. http://www.ironictimes.com/index.html

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Dec 8, 2010, at 1:01 AM

Obama's latest compromise. http://www.borowitzreport.com/

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Dec 8, 2010, at 12:45 AM

There has been no change in my prems on my insurance, so not sure how some insurance companies can justify a 10% increase and decrease benefits.

That makes me seem a bit skeptical on some of the numbers being thrown around, but even prior to Health care reform there was a usual 3-5% increase in prems anyway. The only thing that will slow this cost down is medicare for all or some other single payer.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Dec 7, 2010, at 10:18 PM

I don't have the exact numbers yet, but will post them when i do later this week or next. Good news, one of the other companies has made a much better offer so it will come in under 10%. Benefits aren't going to be nearly as good though with copays doubling.

Okr,

You are right, they do usually go up anyway, but not nearly this much. There were even two years of the last 10 that our rates actually went down or our benefits went up. I suppose it is best just to try to stay healthy.

-- Posted by Philemon on Tue, Dec 7, 2010, at 1:15 PM

Re: Health care costs. They were going up annually before Obamadon'tcare. We are darned if we do, darned if we don't. Why? Because Washington is owned by Wall Street. Big Pharma loves Obamadon'tcare, and they should.

There are some little scraps thrown to us by the new health care changes (darned if I will call them reform). We should be greatful to our masters for those little things I suppose, things such as you can keep your kids on the policy to an older age. That is, if you can afford policy increases.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Dec 7, 2010, at 12:48 PM

Philemon from the sounds of it I did get off easy.

I pay #314 a month for me and one child if I may be so bold and ask what would you be paying for you and one child with the 16%?

-- Posted by Gal66 on Tue, Dec 7, 2010, at 12:38 PM

Sounds like you got off easy Gal66. Our company is still looking at proposals, but the current best offer is a 16% increase. Anyone got any doubts about my number one reason for not liking Obamacare?

-- Posted by Philemon on Tue, Dec 7, 2010, at 11:27 AM

Well I just got out of our Insurance meeting and my health care is going up 7% not as bad as I expected so I guess that is good.

5% of that is from the Federal Health Care Reform Act the max allowed.

Anybody else know what theirs is going to be yet?

-- Posted by Gal66 on Tue, Dec 7, 2010, at 10:40 AM

I don't like how things went last night either, but I choose to be optimistic about it and see the good rather than the bad.Some may say that unemployment benefits were held hostage for the rich tax cuts, but maybe this is one of the first of many compromises the two sides will reach with the new split in power. Compromise should be the theme for the next two years. Only other possibility would be stalemate, which I don't think anybody wants.

By the way, good call on the open primary OKR.

-- Posted by Philemon on Tue, Dec 7, 2010, at 7:19 AM

Cheese and Nana,

Apparently you aren't getting what I'm saying. I agree, jobs haven't been created because of the tax cuts. That is why proof of job creation would be attached to any break in taxes under my plan. Furthermore, if proof wasn't shown, I would then call for taxing that same income from the previous year at an even higher rate. I don't see this ever happening since it would call for people to be way too accountable for their actions for politicians to actually vote for it.

-- Posted by Philemon on Tue, Dec 7, 2010, at 7:10 AM

Romney is slightly more socially liberal than some Cheesehead, though he denies that these days. Other than that he is just another corporatist. He may run into a brickwall made up of an angry Tea Party in the Republican primary.

Tom Harkin, D-IA, was asked recently what Obama could do to win in 2012? His reply was hope that Sara Palin is the Republican nominee.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Dec 7, 2010, at 12:31 AM

Oft times we forget the human element when we are discussing economic politics.

Hoarding is a good example of this. It is a natural response of human kind to hoard when they are in hard times, especially when they do not see an end to the hard times.

At this very moment the large bank's coffers are filled, potential liquidity if you will. They are not loaning it to businesses because they are afraid that the businesses may fail. So they just hoard it.

The same goes with our five hundred largest businesses. Pockets stuffed with money, but afraid to spend a dime of it on new ventures, or increased production.

The real question is so what must be done to get them to shakin, and bakin again?

It darn sure has absolutely nothing to do with unrestricted tax cuts.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Dec 7, 2010, at 12:22 AM

oklahoma,

The President caves to the Republicans so much he might as well be one. Maybe he can switch partys and run with the GOP in 2012 or is that even possible. I think Romney is the smartest canididate they have but I dont know where he stands is he more moderate than any other potential GOP canidates?

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Dec 7, 2010, at 12:17 AM

I said it before, and I say it again Mr. Xray. Tax cuts won't create jobs. There is ample evidence to support that statement. The following link is very clear on the subject. http://www.inthesetimes.com/working/entr...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Dec 7, 2010, at 12:09 AM

I for one will give my full support to any viable primary candidate who chooses to oppose Barak Obama in the Democratic primary election of 2012.

He should do his party, and the nation a favor, and announce that he will not seek re-election in 2012.

There is relatively recent precedent for that option. Lyndon Baines Johnson realized that he had made huge mistakes, and made a mess of things. He also recognized that the result of that was that he was not going to be re-elected by the American people. Another reason that he chose not to seek another term was for the good of his party. Barak Obama should make the same choice. It is likely to be even worse after two more years as the lamest of lame ducks.

OPEN PRIMARY IN 2012!

Now that would be real change that we can believe in.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Dec 6, 2010, at 11:14 PM

I find it very interresting that these Republicans want to cut the deficit but want to be no part of the cutting. This is why they are considered hypocrits. They want to complain about someone who may need a little help getting some extra money, yet the fat cats on wall street can get a suitcase full of money that we will have to borrow from China to pay for.

US male thats why we should increase taxes on imports so you cant move your business then sell your goods back to to U.S. for as cheap as you thought.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Mon, Dec 6, 2010, at 9:37 PM

Ok,say I am one of the 1% who make over $250,000, now I know that my taxes are going up in 2 years. I think now I will begin making plans to move my business , which I have 5,000 people working for me. Haiti has a lot of people who need work, and NO UNIONS. My income I will put in a Swiss bank, O well why tell you, your mind is made up, I should not confuse you with FACTS.

-- Posted by US male on Mon, Dec 6, 2010, at 9:07 PM

Nanadot,

Hopefully everybody doesnt forget that our govt is broke and by continuing the Bush tax cuts will cause us to borrow more money from China and Russia to pay for these tax cuts. Do we really want to go deeper in debt to China and Russia?

Estimates are that we would add an additional 420 billion to China and 60 million to Russia.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Mon, Dec 6, 2010, at 7:16 PM

Phil,

Your proposal would be one that I could agree on, but if there is no agreement after 9 yrs of tax cuts for the rich why would there be one 1-2 years from now. If this policy were enacted it would have to wait for the new congress and then they would maybe have eonough votes to extend tax cuts for rich permanently so thats not really worth risking.

We already have 9 yrs of data that shows that the bush tax cuts for rich doesnt add jobs and it will increase the defict by 700 billion dollars.

So in your opinion Phil how many years do we need do get an accurate number on these tax cuts for the rich? If the Dems for say agreed to a proposal like your and 1-2 yrs down the road it didnt add jobs they would just find a way to put it on Obama or the Dems in congress and pass them again anyway because after 9 years they havent admitted its done nothing for the economy they wont ever.

A different proposal might be to let the rich tax cuts expire, but give good tax credits to those who have added jobs whether it be small or big business then you could reward those who do choose to help in our economy.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Mon, Dec 6, 2010, at 3:45 PM

I know you were asking xray for a solution, but below is part of one of my previous posts I'd like your opinion on.

"To add to your plan for recovery, I've been kicking around a compromise idea on the tax cuts for the rich. My plan would call for keeping the cuts and possibly even increasing them. The following year, proof would have to be given that the extra money was actually used to create jobs, or it would be retaxed at an even higher rate. This may be impossible to actually do, but doesn't it make sense?"

I've actually been adding to that, but will wait to hear your thoughts before continuing. I'm calling it my forced trickle down theory.

-- Posted by Philemon on Mon, Dec 6, 2010, at 2:14 PM

Nanadot,

I dont believe these people still subscribe to the trickle-down theory. The rich have still been experiencing raises in income lately while the middle and working classes incomes are dropping.

If the wealthiest people in this country are still making more and more money who exactly is this money trickling down to. Commom sense is that they are hoarding all their money no trickle down around here.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Mon, Dec 6, 2010, at 1:51 PM

News Across: I have a feeling your not Posting in support of me,and my last Post, that was Censured! Hey don't let that happen,my Friend! Everyone should hear what you have to say on Americas situation & other Topic's! You have a lot contributions to make, that makes a lot of sense too me! give'em hell, my old time Friend's! -------- And a shootout too Okla,Nana,Slater,& W.T., were-ever you are!

-- Posted by Jo on Mon, Dec 6, 2010, at 1:38 PM

cheesehead and okr... funny... what conservative person on this forum has ever said that Bush did not break campaign promises or did not go against his supposed conservative beliefs? Or any republican for that matter.

AND refer to my post about Bush era tax cuts and how they stimulated JOB GROWTH after 9/11. There were more jobs LOST right after 9/11 than during this economic crash... YET jobs were still being created... go do your research on the GOVERNMENT's bureau of labor and statistics.

lol

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Dec 6, 2010, at 4:30 AM

We have a huge problem with unemployment. It is commonly thought that the tax cut (or extension of prior temporary tax cuts due to expire) will spur employment. Politicians spiel it like it was cut in stone. They are reading the tablet upside down. Maybe that is because they have just pulled their heads from a dark, and smelly place where it had been for far too long, and they are not yet able to raise their heads toward the sky.

At any rate since 1960 the common thought is more often wrong than right. Instead tax cuts have usually lead to higher unemployment, whereas tax increases have lead to lower unemployment. Ah, history, we ignore it at our peril. http://blog.buzzflash.com/node/12037

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Dec 6, 2010, at 1:18 AM

I found some of the promises that Bush made when he was running for President and how exactly these promises turn out. Its funny how Republicans love the truth but hate the facts.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Sun, Dec 5, 2010, at 11:53 PM

Why exactly do right wing want tax cuts for the rich when everbody knows it won't add jobs?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqQn1_x5C...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Sun, Dec 5, 2010, at 11:12 PM

so one logical idea would be to leave the tax rates where they are... then provide tax cuts or a tax holiday to put even more money in the hands of job creators. We have seen that spending trillions has NOT increased job creation and only added HUGE debt and deficits.

Once we have a steady increase in job creation THEN we can work on adjusting tax rates to help with the needed SPENDING cuts and reduction in the size of government, but only adjust tax rates incrimentally over several years instead of at shock rates that would once again slow down job growth.

What you are not considering that is that with MORE jobs in the PRIVATE sector you will have LESS people on the government dole. so revenues would increase and spending would go down

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Dec 5, 2010, at 10:06 PM

PS this is NOT a tax cut.... it is a vote to leave the rates where they are and not allow them to raise.....

PSS.... once you put the money in the hands of job creators, you increase the number of people in the pool of tax payers INCREASING revenue AND reducing spending because less people are on the entitlement programs that are inefficient, wasteful and fraud filled..... THAT is hard to grasp right?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Dec 5, 2010, at 10:03 PM

It is a false presumption that "soaking the rich" by increasing taxes will raise tax revenues. The Obama administration's plan to increase marginal taxes for the rich to bring down the deficit fails to factor in human motivation and action. As taught in economics 101, incentives matter. Under Obama's plan, two-thirds of businesses profits will be taxed at a higher rate of 39.6 percent. As a result, individuals are more deterred from starting new enterprises. Employers will be forced to pay more in taxes and will have less to invest in expanding their business by creating new jobs. In the end, these higher taxes will discourage production. Why take an enormous risk with your capital if the government takes away nearly 40 percent of your potential profit?

In reality, higher tax rates will alters incentives which lead to larger deficits. If the Obama administration increases marginal tax rates for high income earners, tax revenue will likely decrease. The graph above shows that the Bush-era tax cuts increased production and innovation which led to the rich paying a larger share of taxes. According to the U.S. Department of Treasury, the top 1 percent of income earners will pay 37 percent of tax revenue with the current 35 percent marginal tax rate. Under Obama's proposal, these individuals will only pay 31 percent of tax revenue with the proposed 39.6 percent marginal tax rate. President John F. Kennedy understood that "reducing taxes is the best way open to us to increase revenues." If Congress fails to extend the Bush-era tax cuts to high income earners, the nation will suffer by reducing employment and output while increasing the budget deficit.

http://www.freedomworks.org/blog/jborows...

IN OTHER WORDS, because Obama's admin is ANTI business, particularly those small and medium business ownwer, they people that are willing to take the risk to start or expand businesses, therefore create jobs are LESS willing to expend the money, both because of the increase expenses of taxation and because of the ever changing uncertainty. The difference between Obama and Bush was that Bush understood that the major way to increase tax revenue for the government was to support the creation of jobs by putting more money in the hands of those creating jobs... AND IF you consider 200K or 150K or 250K annual incomes rich and therefore they should be penalized for being rich then you are taking money out of the hands of those who are creating the jobs. IT is really a simple concept to grasp once you have an open mind to reach beyond the rhetoric of the class warfare propaganda

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Dec 5, 2010, at 9:59 PM

nanadot... you sound more and more like you have great jealousy of those who happen to have more money than you. That is the exact meaning of richness is relative.

Basically you are advocating for the government to legisliate some maximum amount of money that a person can earn and then the force you to turn over the rest to the inefficient, fraud and waste filled, red tape, illogical bureaucracies?

LOL so much for freedom.

Again, for those slow on the uptake. there is only a LIMITED supply of money in our economy... granted it is a lot of money but it is limited based on our resources and ingenuity and the people able to work. When you take away money from those creating jobs and starting new businesses or expanding existing ones, you are removing the available capital for job creation and research and development. Instead of efficient private industries using their money, the inefficient government entities waste the money on way too high costs and contracts where all the people involved are gaming the system to their advantage so that most of the money does not go toward the people in need. This all artificially inflates the cost to the consumer harming the POOR PEOPLE.

As for the whole concept that someone making 250K per year are automatically rich, that is where the relativity comes in... that all depends on your position. IF you are a small business owner,then you are often set up so that all profits from the business are passed through to your individual tax return.... So even if you put that money back into the business for growth and sustainment, you STILL pay taxes on the entire amount. AND you are liable for any risks involved with running your business....not all are set up that way but many are. So if I am a trust fund baby and get a annual amount of money of 250K then I am rich... but if I have to use that money to expand my business or pay for unexpected expenses then that 250K is not so rich as it is all going back into the business so that it can function.

SO the simple idea that some set amount automatically makes you rich is not well thought out.

IF spreading the wealth was such a wonderful idea why dont the liberal idiots in Hollywood jump ahead of all other people and donate all their money except 100K per year or less? Why dont the rich liberal politicians refuse their salaries? Why dont they refuse their healthy expensive benefits?

It is way too simplistic to state that the sole cause of our problems are the evil rich people and the republicans that YOU claim ONLY support rich people.... LOL It is the DEMS that wanted to bail out the rich financial people... and GM... and GE.... so to say it is republicans that want to favor the rich over the poor is a very inaccurate statement.

Try again

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Dec 5, 2010, at 9:50 PM

nanadot... please explain how you figure that bush era tax cuts that are to be extended increases deficits when in fact they actually decreased the deficit during Bushes Terms even with 9/11, Katrina, two wars and other major issues?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Dec 5, 2010, at 9:37 PM

Just days ago the budget director for former Pres Reagan who was the king of conservativism said there would have been no way Reagan would have given tax cuts to the rich with the deficit being as high as it is or with the tax rates for the rich alreday so low.. He said that the only way tax cuts would work is if the Government had been made smaller before the tax cuts.

You can't give tax cuts then shrink the government he stated also that his administration made the mistake of giving tax cuts believing that the right would work the reduce the size of government, but the Republicans in congress didnt just break this promise they added to the size of govt which added to the Government debt.

There does seem to be some on the right that believe tax rates for the rich are already to low and to keep giving them tax cuts puts the government in very bad postition to govern and damages the economy, but the right wing media seems to portray just the opposite.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Sun, Dec 5, 2010, at 9:26 PM

nanadot,

Whats funny about the tax cuts is that is that the people who argue for them don't care if it adds to the deficit now, but during the weeks before the elections all the Republicans told us they wanted to cut the defict! This is hypocrisy at its best!

-- Posted by cheesehead on Sun, Dec 5, 2010, at 9:13 PM

Most will complain about the rich getting all the breaks but will never be willing to assume the risk to become rich their self. Kind of like someone telling you how to become rich but they are not.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Dec 5, 2010, at 3:45 PM

Nana who says we will have to borrow more if the 'rich' get tax breaks?

Who can define what is wealthy of who has enough?

The game the Dems play is they want you to look at the 'rich' as evil so you won't look at them as evil because they are 'rich'. You are pawns in their evil rich game.

Just look around our local area and how much government money some get that don't really need it. Example our farm programs has made some of the locals very wealthy. So my question is are they evil?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Dec 5, 2010, at 3:40 PM

w t f.... I never said that I did or did not think that the rich (richer than me) people did or did not need to pay more than the poor...

My point is that richness IS relative because those who look toward anyone who makes more than they do or can afford more then they can they always think of them as rich, even if they are not.

Same if you look toward someone who is poor... you view them as poor most times. And by YOU I mean people in general not someone in specific.

So richness is relative and if you see someone with more money than you, you assume automatically that they should pay more in taxes... mostly to support you and your entitlements... because after all the Dems push the class warfare card as much or more than they do the race card.

As for people who own businesses... and their perceive richness...many of them have to pay taxes not only in their personal income but on the income of their business... all on the same 1040 even if they are putting back that money into their business.... so the APPEARANCE of richness may not really be what reality is...

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Dec 5, 2010, at 10:49 AM

Oh come on taxpayer... I am standing up for you... the tax payer.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Dec 5, 2010, at 9:52 AM

MrXray. I take it back.

-- Posted by taxedpayer on Sun, Dec 5, 2010, at 8:06 AM

xray,

Richness is relative? Perhaps.I guess access to things like good healthcare are relative also. Richness also allows one to buy legislation to keep them richer.We are watching it right now.

He who hath the gold makes the rules. Let'em eat cake,right?

The taxes we are talking about are for personal income are they not? If a small business owner is paying himself a modest income and the rest of the money stays in the business then they have no worries. But, if a small business owner pays themself a quarter of a million dollars are more a year then they may just get bumped into a higher tax bracket,right? That's the way it works. The funny thing with our tax code is that the wealthier someone is the more they can afford tax shelters and pay someone to find them.

This is the worst "entitlement" program of all.

As a taxpaying American citizen, I would rather see our money help the masses in a very tough time. The rich will be just fine and they always will be.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Dec 5, 2010, at 7:40 AM

Locally we all cry about a half cent tax increase to pay for a school building project or whatever... we cry about a 1% increase in our utilities cost ... we cry about any increase in our taxes locally but at least we get to vote on those issues.

We DO NOT GET TO VOTE on federal tax rates

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Dec 5, 2010, at 2:10 AM

SO..... when the liberal progressives want to cry about spending MORE and MORE money for their entitlement programs exactly WHERE is the money going to come from to pay for them?

Ohh... and now that we have the baby boomers retiring we are top heavy to where we are going to have less and less people actually in the work force to support the retirement benefits and medicare for those that are retiring. oh and less and less people working to earn wages that Uncle Sam can confiscate for these entitlement programs and our debt payments so what does that mean? IF there are less people paying into the tax fund then we are ALL going to have our taxes increased substantially over the next 10+ years...

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Dec 5, 2010, at 2:08 AM

This information does not include the whole US Debt picture... we hovered around 50-65% of GDP during Bush's years and now we are really close to having a Federal Debt of 100% of our GDP.. projected outlooks show 2015 being well over 100% of our GDP.... what does that mean? Not only do we have an economic crisis, and not only do we have a small, private business UNFRIEDNLY administration causing hesitancy and fear amongst business owners, and not only have we increased our deficits to record highs, we also have increased our DEBT to nations like China and Russia to where our nation now owe MORE money than it takes in......

So basically our nation is like so many of its citizens... we have credit card balances and payments that are well beyond our capability of paying without SEVERE cuts in spending....

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Dec 5, 2010, at 2:05 AM

Cheeshead... lol you say that tax cuts did not create jobs in the last nine years.... some facts for you.

During Bush years, even with the recession that started in 1999 under Clinton and continued into 2000, 9/11, Katrina, stock market scandals and both wars, the deficit was reducded from 412 billion in 2004 to 162 billion in 2007. This was a 60% drop in the deficit. Unemployment averages 5.2% There was the strongest economic growth in 4 decades and also a good GDP growth (See the links below)

During the recession after 9/11/2001 there were more jobs lost than after this economic crash at the end of Bush's term into Obama's term. However the unemployment rate did not increase over 6.4%, the highest rate of unemployment during Bush's term. SO how is it possible for more jobs to have been lost after 9/11/2001 than after the economic crash in 2008 and still have a lower unemployment rate during Bush's years after 9/11 than it is not after Obama's years after the economic crash?

Bureau of Labor and statistics shows us that there have been about 8.6 million less jobs created during this economic crash/attempted recovery than after the 9/11/2001. WHY? Because after the recession caused by 9/11 and the HUGE jobs lost Bush and his adminstration had a business friendly policy and stable economic policies. Obama and his administration have exploded with trillions of dollars of spending, government take over of portions of businesses and many business UNFRIENDLY policies and UNSTABLE economic policies that all create uncertainty, inability to long term plan and absolutely NO FAITH in the President and the Democrats that were in total control of Congress. In these policies you can include the HUGE increases that many business will incur due to the health care spending bill and the possibility of HUGE expenses from any type of crap and tax bills and the like. Even Obama's campaign promise to EXPONENTIALLY INCREASE the cost of UTILITIES across the board can be included.

According to the Bureau of Labor and statistics, lower job creation accounts for about 65% of this recessions decreased employment.

All of the differences that show that during BUSH's years there was a better track record of job creation and recovery from huge economic problems when compared to Obama and his policies, but it also shows that these things occurred WHILE THE TAX CUTS were in place... SO with Bush era tax cuts in place, the deficit was decrease until this current economic crash, more jobs were created and unemployment was lower after economically difficult events occured during Bush's terms.

I know you lefties wont believe this but do your own research instead of listening to the leftist alphabet soup news outlets... LOL

Productivity rates http://bp0.blogger.com/_L6pDyjqqsvY/R9Qe...

Economic growth rates

http://bp2.blogger.com/_L6pDyjqqsvY/R9Qd...

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Dec 5, 2010, at 1:54 AM

lol taxpayer... someone has to balance out the whacko lefties...

But Nanadot... seriously? You are going to look toward Europe and expect Americans to want to follow their examples?

Let me see

1. First, Appeasement and bowing to crazy dictators of the world is NOT foreign policy.

How many times did it take Europe before they understood that appeasement would not work with Germany? Two horrible world wars, Holocaust, destruction of European nations and their infrastructure and then the financial nightmares after each war? And they still probably have not learned.

2. How many European nations are failing or on the brink of failure? Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece, Spain (PIIGS) just to name a few. And they are all expecting basically Germany to bail them out. How many of these nations have become so acustomed to their shorter work weeks, lots of extra vacation time and low retirement ages and their expensive legacy type benefits packages that are all expensive and remove lots of capital from the economy only to RIOT and take to the streets when the countries economies cannot support those exenses any longer so they have to raise retirement ages and reduce benefits and require that people work longer weeks, more hours per day and have less vacation?

It was Italy that decided that they would utilze a new factor in their accounting columns for their economy. Because they only work 30-35 hours per week, 4 days a week or less and have several weeks per year that they are on vacation, their economy was getting to the point it could not support all of their entitlements and legacy-type benefits. SO one answer was to add a happiness factor to their economic formula. Their theory was that because they worked less they were happier therefore this should be accounted for in the economy. Since they were happier but worked less, they could raise their economic outlook based on this theoretical happiness factor and artificially or theoretically increase their economic standing....

I am not sure how that would work out in real life.

The point is that you have to have the funds to pay for ANY program and when you borrow and borrow and borrow and spend and spend and spend all while decreasing the capital available by reducing work hours and increasing vacation times or increasing retirement benefits and allowing people to retire at an earlier age, you ALWAYS get to a point where your economy cannot any longer support these liberal progressive programs.

IT would be nice and wonderful if all people did not have to go to work for as many hours and had the luxury of getting 4 or more weeks of vacation legislated by the government and we all had huge retirement packages. BUT, as with the case with the EU, we are seeing that real life does not function like this.

The more money we take away from the tax payer, the less they have to support their selfs and the MORE INEFFICIENT the governemtn is at spending those funds for every program and bureaucracy that it runs. Then you have to factor in the greed, abuse, waste, fraud of all these programs and then you can understand how much capital is removed from the economy that is no longer functioning to create jobs and expand businesses.

They say over 65-80% of our jobs are from small businesses. So the whole "big bad evil businesses" as the root cause for our economic problems is a rhetorical talking point of the leftist talking heads that want to stir continuously the class warfare pot. Granted, huge corporations are all about profit and investors and the workers often get screwed but that still is only a minority portion of the job market. Most people who own a small business own it in their community and have a close relationship with their employees and their community and work hard both to make money and to have a good repuation amongst their community because they know that is a key factor in their success.

So when a Democrat states that the repubs are causing middle class people to have a tax increase if they hold out for the re-establishment of the bush era tax cuts so they are favoring the rich people this is a false argument as many small business owners are rich according to the majority of Americans. But due to their incorporation status, many business owners pay taxes personally for their business and are liable for any problems as well and risk their entire lives because of their business.

"Richness" is relative. If I make 80K per year, those that make 150K think I am poor while those that make 40K think I am well off. And those that make 25K think those that make 40K are well off. SO when a Democrat is stating that they should continue the tax cut for those making less than 250K you are going to increase the taxes for a great portion of those who are small business owners. Even those that make a million dollars a year are small business owners and much of their income per year is tied up in the running of their business and not really free money to live on.

Real life is much much more than sound bites that say the republicans want the rich to get richer... But then the left always is quick to jump to sound bits like ' if you dont agree with Obama then you are a racist'

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Dec 5, 2010, at 1:31 AM

I see there is lots of support on the homepage of this site for middle tax cuts only. I'm really glad to see this especially coming from a rather conservative majority community. Its a good thing that people can see past the lies of the right wing propaganda machine and realize giving tax breaks to the rich doesnt add jobs.

It might have taken 9 years for a majority in this country to realize that tax cuts for the rich hasn't added any jobs at all, but I'm glad it has happened. Record profits but not record job growth.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Sat, Dec 4, 2010, at 10:48 PM

Its a sad day for America when the GOP block tax cuts for the middle class just to ensure the rich get lots of money. I say if the GOP want to give the rich tax cuts they do so by themselves. I'm asking for pledges to vote every senator out of office who votes for tax cuts for the rich. Who is with me on this one?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/12/0...

-- Posted by miss october on Sat, Dec 4, 2010, at 8:54 PM

xray,

I'll give you that here is plenty of blame to go around. However, that in no way diminshes what Dick Cheney is. The facts are there already in regards to invading Iraq and Halburtons billions in no-bid contracts. Dick Cheny is the worst kind of criminal.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Dec 4, 2010, at 5:39 PM

I have to say, MrXray, I really enjoy reading your comments and learn stuff from them when you're explaining your position on issues and not just slinging insults and "whacko liberals" (same goes for those who sling insults at the "wingnuts"). You're really on a roll here. Thanks!

-- Posted by taxedpayer on Sat, Dec 4, 2010, at 7:58 AM

http://www.therightreasons.net/index.php...

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Dec 4, 2010, at 2:28 AM

nanadot: Not sure what your links are supposed to be countering....

huff post? lol

Or are you talking about a third world nation attempting to garner some limelight by trying to arrest Chaney? lol

When the facts come out instead of allegations we shall see.

HOWEVER, I have NEVER said that Repubs are not guilty of wrong doing...YOu do that enough without showing ANY Dems wrong doing so I am only helping to equal out the imbalance that is shown on this forum...

you are welcome for that help too... LOL

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Dec 4, 2010, at 2:12 AM

FINALLY!!!

An honest, at least in this instance, a Democrat politician admits that Hillary Clinton and Obama were both influenced and used that Saul Alinsky tactics

http://www.breitbart.tv/howard-dean-reve...

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Dec 4, 2010, at 1:51 AM

The problem with tax payer funded entitlement programs is this.

Not only do they remove working capital (money) from the finite supply of capital within our economy, they are based of emotional, tear jerking reactions to some bad or sad experience within our society.

However, as we get more and more entitlement programs and we are taking more and more money away from the working, tax paying citizens, we are increasing the resentment that the tax payer has toward the government and toward the people obtaining these 'free money' benefit programs.

The fact that almost all government programs are inefficient, wasteful, and filled with abuse and corruption adds to the anger and resentment of the tax payer.

The more of these programs we have and the longer people are on them breeds the expectation that Uncle Sam will take care of them. This takes away motivation and incentive to provide for ones own self. This feeling of 'entitlement' is handed down from generation to generation while nothing is being done to actually FIX the causes of why people need the assistance. Instead it is an expectation and if there is talk of removing an entitlement then there is talk of riots and etc.

Another thing that these entitlments cause is found in our career political elitist class of people. They view tax payer funds as a pool of money that the tax payer owes THEM instead of viewing it as a hallowed gift. Just look at how our politicians view tax CUTS. They think that if they cut our taxes then we should all be grateful and not complain if they raise them back. Instead they should view tax money as something that belongs to the tax payer which should be treated as something to be used frugally instead of rampant spending on pet projects and money for turtle tunnels and funds for teaching CHINESE hookers in CHINA to drink responsible 'while on the job' or other stupid and wasteful programs and projects.

Because our politicians, liberal progressives worse than others, view our tax contributions as something that is THEIRS instead of OURS they are not spending it wisely and they instead use those funds to play the special interest bribery game.

No individual nor most businesses, unless you are a favored huge industry of the month could get away with spending their money that did not help grow their business and provide for their employees. Yet the politicians blow our money, do things like the ponzi scheme of medicare and social security funding. Then they stand up and break the tax laws that they wrote and all they do is get censured?

is it no wonder that the tax payer is angry and resentful of the liberal progressive agenda and the people obtaining the entitlement benefits?

IF the politicians spent our money wisely and ONLY on the limited things set forth in our constitution, instead of every expanding things based on how far they can stretch the commerce clause, and ONLY spent what was necessary, then the tax payer would be more than happy to contribute to logical, common sense and efficient programs that actually address and FIX the problems of individuals that were poor and homeless.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Dec 4, 2010, at 1:43 AM

OKR: I feel as bad as the next guy or gal about those who have been laid off or fired and cannot find a job. It sucks, been there done that.

Here are some questions.

1. Do people not have the obligation to take care of their self? What I mean is that we all know that the economy cycles, or we should know, and that being laid off is a REAL possibility. SO we should have a years worth of bill money and food and clothing and other necessities stored up in the event of the worst case scenario right? Why is it the government's job to take care of all of us?

2. Where does the money come from to pay for the never ending unemployment and how is that helping us to fix the economy and grow new jobs?

3. Again, as with any entitlement program people game the system. I know people that never step foot into businesses yet they fill out their unemployment information monthly and get their checks. I know people that have turned down jobs and refused to go into places that were hiring because they did not want to work.

Being unemployed sucks and is stressful and is probably the only entitlement program that I am in favor of to some degree. However, I would think that there is enough jobs that are needed in our communities, trash pick up for example, that we could have a local program where you would get your unemployment in exchange for some sort of contribution back to your community. Heck, if they are professional with an education and skills they could volunteer as mentors and teaching assistants or something.

This would allow people to get a sense of satisifaction even while enduring stress of being unemployed, they would get their money and they would help their community and this would provide incentive for some of the people to actually find a job instead of milking the system.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Dec 4, 2010, at 1:27 AM

nanadot: You stated "xray - your personal experience or who comes to the ER does not TRUTH FOR ALL OTHERS make, nor is it representative of the entire country."

Actually, it is not my personal experience alone. Go ask any person that works in the medical field in the ERs or Urgent care patients.

I have been keeping track recently. During my 3 shifts last week, we had about 20-22 ER patients each night shift. Of those patients, about 75% were medicaid patients. Each night we had about 5, give or take one, that were people who were coming in for chronic problems, problems that they have had for weeks or more. We had about 3-5 patients that came in an claimed pain but all were allergic to Morphine, Demerol, Toradol and everything except Dilaudid, because Dilaudid is the drug of choice now for "drug seekers". Over the weekend on night shifts we had 3 people that had been to multiple hospitals seeking drugs but were failures because they did not play the game good enough and the medical staffs caught on to them.

EVERY patient that came in with a medicaid card... every patient period, had a cell phone and every member of their family over the age of 12 had one as well. A few of the red card holders had game systems with them because they routinly use the ER for their routine care and know that there can be a wait of several hours for non-urgent patients.

Over the same 3 shifts, we had people who had been to other larger area hospitals that had sat for many hours without being seen so they decided to drive to our hospital for routine problems and chronic problems.

I Know you, like so many liberals, do not want to face the reality of the problems within the entitlement programs but they are there and medical facilities and providers are slowly waking up to the fact that they have to address this situation because it is causing many systemic problems within our health care industry.

So it is NOT burnout but a healthy dose of reality on a routine basis that shows us that there are a good number of people that abuse and game the system.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Dec 4, 2010, at 1:18 AM

OKR: My 'bridge to no where" comment never stated that this was a Dem only bill.... lol

Calm down

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Dec 4, 2010, at 1:00 AM

Cheeshead... lol it was Obama and Biden and the Dems that PROMISED that if we spend trillions of dollars then our unemployment rate would not go over 8%. I mean it was 'vote for this bailout bill and for this next bail out bill and for huge government spending stimulus bills or our entire nation is doomed" coming out of the mouths of the Dems. How can you even still blame Bush? LOL

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Dec 4, 2010, at 12:53 AM

wow, Nanadot and cheesehead never stop... LOL

Before you continue to bash the republicans and the evil big businesses read this article;

http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time.com/...

The jist of it is that the record profits is not from increased revenue but from firing and laying off of employees that occurred last year and early this year. IN other words the cycle is economic down turn or financial problems, decrease in revenue, laying of and other cost cutting means, this leads to an increase in profits not by increasing sales, therefore revenue but by not having the expenses. IF the increase in profits continues over a few quarters then hiring is re-established.

So far there is no trend in sustained revenue increases or sustained profit.

The other issue is that the sector that gained most of these profits were in the banking sector. To quote; "Look at where the profits came from. The biggest gainer in the third quarter was the banking sector. Profits at financial companies jumped 191%. Yet revenues at those firms actually fell 6%. No new sales, no new employees"

So to say in a 'lump sum' statement that Big evil corporations, as a whole, had a record setting profit amount for the 3rd quarter does not really mean anything when you actually look at the facts and figures.

Besides, most of the financial industry's increase of profits is artificially stimulated from the influx of government intervention and bail outs.

read the outlook for next year which says that economic growth is still going to be slow and that there will not be sustained profits to generate the hiring back of employees. Maybe that will give you an idea as to why the record amounts of profits does not translate into job growth.

Again, our unemployment rate has increased and again the white house continues to claim that we are growing and increasing jobs... lol

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Dec 4, 2010, at 12:51 AM

OKR: In the recent example of the Community Reinvestment Act and its primary root to our current state of economic woes, I can faithfully state that this was primarily an act pushed by a progressive liberal agenda that stated that ALL people somehow had a right to have a home MORTGAGE. As with many economically harmful policies and programs, they start out as good intentions or 'good in theory' concepts, but when applied to real world circumstances they fail. This goal of having ALL people own homes, as if home ownership is a RIGHT, failed because many people are not financially responsible enough to have a monthly mortgage AND be responsible for the upkeep of the home as well.

As we know the CRA was started by Carter and really pushed by Clinton and the liberals and dems as a social justice agenda or an attempt to legislate equality or equal access. Just as with morals and ethics you cannot legislate fairness.

So people people borrowed more than they could afford and with risky loans to the banks and the RULES and REGULATIONS were established and then people from borrowers to lenders to the entities like Freddie and Fannie gamed the system causing our housing market to become hyper or super inflated.

What it boiled down to was that people took out larger loans than their incomes should have allowed with less money down and on shakier terms. This caused a run on the existing houses and the people built new houses like crazy and people 'flipped' olds ones for quick profits. But the growth in the housing industry was built on quick sand and the derivities that were allowed from this liberal agenda and its GOVERNMENT rules and regulations and the lack of real oversight by the DEMOCRAT led committes in the 2000s, were the cause of the housing market causing the rest of the economy to crash.

So in this specific instance I can say that it was the liberals and democrats like Franks and Dodd that stood up many times and told us that fannie and freddie and the derivities market and the housing market were stable and fine ignoring the people like Bush and McCain that were saying the housing market was going to crash and with it our entire economy. Who was correct on this issue?

Yes Repubs had a hand in enabling this program to exist and voted for it and many ignored it and allowed it to fester.

But if you read my comments, I never say that Republicans are not to blame for many of our economic problems, I merely put more emphasis on the Democrats and the liberal progressive agenda because many on this forum love to blame the evil Republicans and evil big businesses for any and every problem so I find it important and amusing to equally point out the things that the Dems caused or pushed.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Dec 4, 2010, at 12:36 AM

Kucinich-Paul 2012

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Dec 3, 2010, at 7:17 PM

The leaders of the Republican party are trying to push for tax cuts for the rich. We already know that the tax cuts for the rich don't create jobs we have the last 9 years as proof for this.

If more proof is needed just look at the 3rd quarter growth rates which Wall street raked in record profits this last qtr and the unemployment rate is still climbing. There were 40,000 jobs added which is good, but not good enough. The unemployment rate is 9.8% now. So why do what weve been doing for 9 years now?

So if you really want to know why many high profile Republicans are pushing for these tax cuts for the rich you should look no further than their pocket books. Here is a video showing how much money the Republican leaders will make if Bush's tax cuts for the rich don't expire. I do have to note that 1 high profile Republican by the name of Ron Paul voted with the democrats to give tax cuts to those making under 250,000.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqQn1_x5C...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Fri, Dec 3, 2010, at 5:45 PM

That figures, we have to leave it to Nigeria to do the right thing.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Dec 3, 2010, at 4:07 PM

what the f,

Well maybe the U.S. wont press charges on the Bush/Cheney crime family, but it appears that Nigeria is proscuting Cheney over a bribery scandel that invlolves Halliburton and other oil compainies. A total of 23 Halliburton officials have already been arrested.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-12-01...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Fri, Dec 3, 2010, at 2:37 PM

Yep, so much for prosecuting Bush/Cheny.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Dec 3, 2010, at 12:59 PM

What makes it worse is that he did not have to give in, he chose to give in. Another stinkin corporate shill. Please let there be a real Democrat to challenge him in the next primary.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-kl...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Dec 3, 2010, at 1:51 AM

Obama has caved again. Agreement is being reached that the tax cuts, including those for the rich will be extended for three years.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Dec 3, 2010, at 1:33 AM

Sorry Duggernaut I misspelled your screen name, or you did. ;)

It is a new word to me. Does it have a special meaning you would care to share?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Dec 3, 2010, at 12:24 AM

Well said Duggernaught. Welcome to this blog.

It is a mix of voices, left, right, and center that aspiring politicians may be well advised to cover as it is a microcosm of the voices of ordinary Americans.

It is distinct from many blogs because it is not hosted by an entity that has a particular axe to grind. Thus it is not dominated by any particular political faction.

If you have been a regular reader prior to joining the fray you already knew that. If you were not in need of the heads up, just chalk up this post as a welcome. I hope you enjoy the experience. As you said, you take your hope where you can find it. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Dec 3, 2010, at 12:17 AM

It seems, that amidst millions of these same types of debates and discussions over many years, that we are still unaware that the chess match between the power and the poor has long been over. The worker is the loser but yet he/she still remaines hopeful...what else does he/she have but hope? And unfotunately, it is hope that sustains the poor. The wealthy pay the powerful, who become the wealthy after they lose the power and in turn pay the powerful to keep them wealthy. Their only loss is the occasional token sacrifice of one of their own to make it all seem legitamate. All the while, the worker is given just enough to keep working and remain hopeful. The machine is too large and corrupt to be changed at this point. You may say that this view of politics is extreme, but ask yourself...is it hope that prompted your response?

-- Posted by duggernaut on Thu, Dec 2, 2010, at 8:54 PM

A halfway hurrah to that.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Dec 2, 2010, at 5:24 PM

Phil & Oklahoma

We have good news as the House has passed tax cuts for those who make under 250,000. Now on to the Senate where the water gets a little muddy.

Will the Republicans in the block a vote on this bill?

I think the number of jobs added last month was about 90,000 which is positve job growth in private sector for about 11 months in a row or 9 out of last 11 months depending on your sources, but we need like 200,000 or more a month to reduce unemployment rate. However coorpations added 1.7 trillion dollars in the 3rd qtr which is a 60yr record, which if the fact that the rich added jobs with their extra money we should have had a record number of jobs added right? I'm not an expert by any means so if anyone could explain to me why record profits arent equaling record jobs someone please explain why? It doesnt sound to me like the rich need extra money it sounds to me like the middle class needs more money.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Thu, Dec 2, 2010, at 3:50 PM

Thank you Philemon, coming from you those comments are gratifying.

Regarding your suggestion on the tax cut problem it may be a viable compromise that would stand a chance of ending the impasse.

I would prefer a compromise going in the opposite direction, that is doing away with the temporary tax break except for those with a net household income of sixty thousand, or less. Our country is in dire straits, and it is time that all the American people make a direct sacrifice. We have skated through two wars for years with the majority of Americans sacrificing no more than five minutes, and a few bucks to slap a yellow ribbon on their cars. As we have avoided sacrifice there, it is even more compelling that we all do our part to recover economic stability. I know that many would squeal like a pig if that were to happen. The up side would be that the rich would not be in any position to whine, without their patriotism, and loyalty being questioned. It would be nice to shut them down to a mumbling grumble on their winter flights to Jamaica. Alas, my preference has less chance of surviving than a snowball in Hades. It certainly would have an impact on the deficit.

I would prefer your alternative to stalemate, and if the details could be worked out, it may finally put to rest whether, or not, tax cuts for the rich provide substantial economic stimulus. Out of the lab, and into the streets so to speak.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Dec 2, 2010, at 2:55 PM

Well put OKR. I'm notsure if this is the correct way to put it, but I like your posting style. Even if I disagree with you, which in this case I agree, I find your posts informative and worded in a way that doesn't feel argumentative or just a spewing of partisan rhetoric. When I do disagree, I find myself wondering if I should reconsider my position.

I too miss News Across, but his posting style tended to have the opposite effect. With an almost opposite platform from News, JHH makes me feel the same way -- the latest tiff with Nanadot on the religious blog is a perfect example.

To add to your plan for recovery, I've been kicking around a compromise idea on the tax cuts for the rich. My plan would call for keeping the cuts and possibly even increasing them. The following year, proof would have to be given that the extra money was actually used to create jobs, or it would be retaxed at an even higher rate. This may be impossible to actually do, but doesn't it make sense?

Basically what I'm saying is that trickle down only works in theory since ti is up to the individual to keep the tap open. What I want is the tap to be forced to stay open.

-- Posted by Philemon on Thu, Dec 2, 2010, at 1:42 PM

Good questions Zeke.

The problem is that a permanent state of war has become an integral part of our economy. Do you recall Eisenhower's warning to beware of the military/industrial complex? Well, his worst fears have come to fruition.

I have long thought that the Obama administration's, and the prior administration's dragging of feet on ending our two wars was precipitated in a large part, by the fear that it would leave our economy in shambles.

However, there are several ways to soften the blow.

We have spent, and continue to spend huge amounts of money to rebuild Iraq, after we destroyed it. We are also trying to "win hearts, and minds" in Afghanistan by massive public works.

It is being done by civilian contractors, and Army engineer troops. There is no reason that we could not bring ALL those folks home, and transfer their efforts to rebuilding the American infrastructure. While it would not directly slash the deficit, it is the right kind of stimulus, and would result in exponential growth.

Secondly we all know that we have huge problems with illegal immigration along our southern border. We could place troops not fitted for reconstruction efforts, along that border to close it. They would not have to be in full combat mode, in fact it would be better if they were not. We do not need tanks rumbling along the border for economic reasons, but more importantly, because of the effect of such activity on foreign relations.

Then we have the problem of what to do with all the folks cranking out bullets, and all the other things that have to be constantly replenished, when our main industry is to provide tools for killing people.

Some manufacture of those things could continue through conversion of use. For instance drone aircraft could be of great assistance in border surveillance. Other manufacturing would require an all together new direction. For instance we could begin a conversion from war tools, to renewable energy tools.

I could go on, but this forum better serves broad overview than detail. To get it going we should abolish all those negative commissions established to determine how to cut medicare, and how to cut social security. We should establish positive orientated proactive commissions concerned with transition from an industrial state of physical war, to an economy that can vigorously wage economic war. The Chinese are way ahead of us in that game, and that is where we need to proactively proceed if we want to survive real threats, not manufactured threats.

The twentieth century is over, and we are dragging our feet, refusing to leave its ways, instead of seizing the opportunities presented by what can be a splendid century for America despite our morose start. I have no doubt that the American people are up to the task. I have grave doubts as to whether congress, and this, or any other administration is up to the task.

So Zeke there you have an overview of OKR's plan to get us out of out moded twentieth century war, and into a strong defensive posture for the bloodless wars of the twenty first century. It is time we "get it", as China already has.

-- Posted by oklahoma reader on Thu, Dec 2, 2010, at 1:00 PM

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Dec 2, 2010, at 1:09 PM

Sounds like the inmates are getting restless!!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Dec 2, 2010, at 11:26 AM

couple of questions -

i agree with the idea of getting out of the two dismal wars we are now mired in.

but (1) what will become of the soldiers who are currently gainfully employed if they are shipped home and have no where to fight?

(2) unemployment being what it is - might the dollars being spent on the wars translate into true job creation here at home?

just wonderin'

zeke

-- Posted by zeke on Thu, Dec 2, 2010, at 10:54 AM

Oklahoma Reader you hit the nail on the head with this statement!

"It would take a bold approach by Obama to get it done, but getting us out of two irrational wars posthaste would be the most effective start"

At one point in time I was in full support of these wars, but when the truth came out I changed my opinion.

-- Posted by Gal66 on Thu, Dec 2, 2010, at 7:11 AM

Let me ask this question if the Republicans are wrong for blocking the benefits for the unemployeed buy saying they will not vote to extend them if the tax cuts are not extended, then are the Democrats just as wrong for holding out the benefits extensions unless the Republicans vote to do away with the tax cuts for the rich?

These people need to learn that they can vote on one issue at a time.

Both sides need to vote for the extension to help people that need help and fight about the tax cuts issue at another time!

-- Posted by Gal66 on Thu, Dec 2, 2010, at 7:07 AM

It would take a bold approach by Obama to get it done, but getting us out of two irrational wars posthaste would be the most effective start in my opinion Cheesehead.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Dec 2, 2010, at 12:25 AM

Oklahoma,

Well it seems to me the Obama has caved into the Republians on this one, but will congress do the same. Your post is the perfect example of class warfare. The right and some Democrats want tax cuts for the rich, but the rich will just save most of their money. Also the tax cuts for the rich havent helped the unemployment rate for the last 8-10 years why would it help create jobs now.

At the same time the Republicans blocked a vote on benefits for the Unemployeed and those middle class workers who have jobs have seen their income reduced for several years now. I don't know about you but Im pretty confident that most people who did vote for the Republicans in Nov did not do so to give tax cuts to the rich. I think that a lot of them voted because they thought they would help balance the budget, but $700 billion could be saved instead of giving it to the rich.

Regardless of what side were on we can all remember that Clinton raised taxes on the rich and added more jobs than the current pres and the past 3 combined. I believe middle class wages also rose in the process. In order to balance the budget we need higher taxes somewhere along with cuts in programs its simple math but where should it start?

-- Posted by cheesehead on Wed, Dec 1, 2010, at 11:19 PM

I guess I am the only one still up tonight, or perhaps it is just that nobody wants to cross this crusty, angry old man tonight. The way I feel I don't blame you. Don't be messin with me tonight, I might just transfer some of my rage at the Demorats, and the Repukicans to you. ROAR...AAAARRRRRGGG. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Dec 1, 2010, at 10:48 PM

This should make your blood boil whether you are a right populist, or a left populist. There are five unemployed people for every one job opening. Yet congress refuses to extend the average $290.00 per week in federal unemployment benefits.

Republicans, and some Democrats are holding out for extending tax cuts for the rich, before they will extend it. They also say that they will extend it if we cut other areas to pay for it. In the next breath they demand the tax cut for the rich, but make no demand for cutting other areas to pay for it.

Meanwhile Wimpy Obama stumbles around with his finger stuck somewhere other than where it should be which is pointing, and shaking it at this inhumane outrage. http://www.seattlepi.com/connelly/430974...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Dec 1, 2010, at 10:40 PM

Would you like to see more evidence that Obama is nothing more than another corporate shill? Read this link. http://robertreich.org/post/2060506381

I really hope that he has an opponent in the Democratic primary. If I can discern that his opponent is not just another corporate shill, I will work my butt off as never before to throw this latest of a long line of rascals out of office. What a phony!

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Dec 1, 2010, at 10:14 PM

Here's one thought spurred by Cheesehead's post of wealthy Americans sitting on their money:

They're hanging onto it so that when the time comes for them to abandon this country, they'll have all the dough they need to settle somewhere else in the world.

I'm close to being the dumbest about the stock market, but I can't understand how the number is well over 11,000 while our economy continues to lag at near the same point it's been for the past two or so years.

Maybe it comes back to what Cheesehead was saying.

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Dec 1, 2010, at 6:52 PM

News Across I do not know if you are even reading these forums at the present, but if you are, will you not make your presence known? You have been at the very least a bright light with your commentary.

Sometime back I was on the verge of leaving the podium for several reasons. Your encouragement was a major factor toward the renewal of my enthusiasm. I hope that you will go back, and read the words that you addressed to me, but this time apply them to yourself.

Now I am sure there are those that will groan, oh no, I wish they were both gone, hey mate, come on back just for spite if for no better reason, though I happen to believe that there are many better reasons.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Dec 1, 2010, at 5:41 PM

As I have long suspected would happen, the mainstream media who have fallen all over themselves to be a propaganda arm of the corporatists, are becoming irrelevant. This obsequiousness by the fourth estate would ordinarily be a nail in the coffin of democracy.

But for the increasing relevance of the internet, and its renegade reporting we would not know half of what we know as to what is going on in our country. This reportage has caused a sheepish old guard press, such as the New York Times, to come out of the shadows, and at least report to some degree, what Wikileaks has shared with the citizens. Shades of Bernstein, and Woodward, one wonders how much they knew, but weren't saying, all along.

The next big revelation is apparently going to be in regard to the shennanigans of a very big U.S. bank, one that has not folded. Rumor is that the result will be raw evidence that federal prosecutors will not be able to ignore. It will be interesting to see what the Wall Street Journal has to say about it. It is likely they are already working on their corporate apologistics, based on things they already know, but did not share with the citizenry. However, try as they might, they won't be able to squirm out of some show of outrage. To neglect that would result in the destruction of their last vestiges of credibility.

It is apparent that we are in the midst of a great transition in jouralism. As readers are leaving the print media in droves, reporters, editors, and commentators are losing their jobs. They will continue to practice their craft in the only availble forum, the internet. That hopefully will make internet news production even more professional. One caution though, are too many of these refugees from print media too tainted to improve the product, and instead may subvert it? Time will tell.

Meanwhile, corporate representatives in government, are scrambling madly to destroy internet neutrality, and to build new fences as yet not understood, to keep we second class human citizens from knowing what is transpiring among the privileged corporate citizens.

Still, hope springs eternal. As more of the professional players go to the net, it just may result in a slam dunk for the people.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6A...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Dec 1, 2010, at 5:28 PM

What does our Department of State think of the French President? Courtesy of Wikileaks. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Dec 1, 2010, at 4:07 PM

"Information is the currency of Democracy"-Thomas Jefferson http://www.truth-out.org/why-wikileaks-g...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Dec 1, 2010, at 3:55 PM

Phil,

Im not exactly sure but I wouldnt too surprised if Palin turns out to be that 3rd party candidate if she really wants to run for President. It seems like most of the right wing inside of Washington wont admit she's not a qualified candidate, but watch if she keeps pushing this run.

I think most Republicans inside Washington will speak out if it comes to it, but they want her support and following is she decides not to run so they dont want her mad. She seems to me that she might just take that 3rd party role if the mainstream Republicans speak out against her and after all she has Hannity and Beck on her side at Fox.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Wed, Dec 1, 2010, at 3:16 PM

I think that was the best post I've ever read from you Cheesehead. Good analysis of the problem and good bi-partisan blame given.

I just wish there was a good answer as to how it can be fixed. Just a thought, but maybe what this country needs is Obama vs Palin in 2012. Maybe that would finally be two candidates bad enough to make some 3rd Party candidate viable. Honestly though, I doubt it.

-- Posted by Philemon on Wed, Dec 1, 2010, at 11:30 AM

Just keep on keepin on Cheesehead, one of these days folks are gonna wake up, an realize that the big putrid stink they been smellin for so long ain't comin from those poor unwashed wretches at the bottom, and that it is just the stench of trickle down.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Nov 30, 2010, at 10:05 PM

I jes hope they don't try an make ole Willie an object lesson, considerin as the 150,00 object lessons that preceded him never took holt wit nooobody. Speakin of Cheshire cats, Ima thinkin I saw it one time in my younger ramblin days. %~)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Nov 30, 2010, at 9:53 PM

I guess the recession is over for some, as U.S. coorps took in 1.659 trillion dollars in the third quater which breaks 60 year old record.

So apparently the free market and private companies growth hasnt brought down the unemployment rate in this country. So why have Republicans and Democrats been telling us that growth in these places would increase jobs when it doesn't appear to be the case. There has been small gains in private sector job growth but not at the rate expected with this type of cash flow.

So why are banks and big coorps giving huge bonuses to CEOs and hoarding the rest of this money and not hiring people? The richest people in this country experienced increases of 8% in this country, but the average income of workers in the U.S. dropped by $500.

The numbers are in and the rich aren't spending their money adding jobs nor will they do so with tax breaks.Its a travesty that members of congress wont extend unemployment benefits during the holidays but instead throw its citzens to one of the worse job markets in history and expect them to feed and clothe their children. Well we know now that the Bush-Obama bailouts at least helped out wall street.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2010/nov201...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Nov 30, 2010, at 7:51 PM

Sic ounces? Good lord! I promise you I ain't high on nuthin. Just old, and past my daily golden hours. Maybe it is close to the same thing? Nope.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Nov 30, 2010, at 5:07 PM

Meant illegal of course. The way I spelled it makes it rhyme with giggle. We would not want that. Maybe I was subconsciously trying to work up some lyrics. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Nov 30, 2010, at 5:01 PM

Oh yes Willie Nelson. Some wag recently said something to the effect of; Sic ounces? On any given day you could shake out his shirt, comb his hair, and find six ounces.

Anyway (for entertainment purposes only) here is Toby Keith's, and Scott ? take on Willie, and his legendary use of the product that causes illigal smiles. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDQANmQO2...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Nov 30, 2010, at 4:58 PM

Everybody needs to check out the Sarah Palin supporters and one of her book signings. Notice how very few know anything about her policy but most know exactly what the right wing media tells them. One of them even states they watch Fox news alot so of course he has all his facts wrong.

This is a must watch! We have a possible Presidential candidate that knows so little yet has lots of support, but it also seems that many of her supporters have no specifics of why they are supporting her.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKKKgua7w...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Nov 30, 2010, at 4:05 PM

rr,

So let me get this straight you believe that money should determine who recieves health care and who shouldn't? You speak of liberals having low morals but it appears to me a society that didnt try to get those who need it treatment would be a society with low morals whether it be secular, Christian, Islamic, Jewish, or any other model which society could be based on.

When did it become ok for Wall street to be on people losing their homes? These are just 2 example of people who have their morals in the wrong place, but due to the righ wing media they have learned to justify such things. The right wing is leading to the destruction of the middle class and the destruction of morals in this country.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Nov 30, 2010, at 1:33 PM

You know NanaDot if we are all on this board honest with our selves we really are not all that far apart, with the exception of the few that I really think only post just to have someone to bicker with.

You know your last post made me really think I know your right that its the few that make it look so bad on the rest.

But it just makes me so mad to see crap like that just about every time I go to a store and then have to put up with seeing the same people at my second job.

Then knowing a friend of mine that is disabled to the point that he is in a wheelchair most of the time and they will not give the man enough help so he can live on his own!

In my opinion we need to vote all the people out of office every chance we get until they get the point that it's got to be fixed!

-- Posted by Gal66 on Tue, Nov 30, 2010, at 11:55 AM

Just a short note from me this morning.

I wish to applaud all those who post on this website,

The undercurrent that sweeps us along is that we all care, and strive to be informed. Of course we differ as to the best approach to fix so much that is broken within our society, but we all are trying to find answers.

It is healthy that we continue to talk, and become better informed by doing so. We do get perturbed with each other, but I can safely say that if any one of us were down, there is not any other one of us that would not lend a helping hand.

Would that such comity was present in our Congress.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Nov 30, 2010, at 11:45 AM

No Philemon I am glad I returned to reading it and I have even started posting, not that what any of us have to say here will change anything I am just tired of not doing anything hell this last election season I even set of a few letters to people running for office and telling them how I felt.

I could not have said it any better.

"Philemon - my libertarian streak says as long as it was personal use, quit wasting taxpayers' money on trivia"

-- Posted by Gal66 on Tue, Nov 30, 2010, at 9:13 AM

NanaDot I never once said just say no, but I do think the system as it is now is broke.

I don't have a problem with subsidized daycare for people that are working, hell even for people looking for a job.

You know NanaDot if you can honestly tell me it does not bother you to go to the store and see someone in line in front of you unload a basket load of goods ie beer, hard liquor, xbox and play station games, bags of candy and chips and yes other food thenpay for part of it with an EBT and the rest of it with a wad of cash that would choke a horse then go out and get in a brand new car, then I see the same people come into my SECOND job 4-5 times a day and buy little cigars and zig-zag rolling papers

Then your a better person than I am!

Why do you have to go to the extreme "Don't like Medicare? End it. Hate the VA? End it. Kill it off for everyone who has no other option"?

Why can't these systems be fixed with good management?

I am not disagreeing with this comment at all "I guaranTEE that commercial health insurance companies will NEVER pick up the slack."

-- Posted by Gal66 on Tue, Nov 30, 2010, at 8:57 AM

On a different issue, I heard yesterday that that dangerous criminal Willie Nelson was busted by the border patrol for having 6 ounces of pot on his tour bus. Unless charges are reduced or dropped, he is looking at a minimum of 6 months to 2 years jail time. I personally don't want to smoke pot, but isn't this a waste of time an money?

-- Posted by Philemon on Tue, Nov 30, 2010, at 8:29 AM

Sorry Gal66, I bet you are wishing I had never got you reading this blog again.

I've not had to use a VA hospital since leaving the military, and hope to never be in a situation that requires it. The equipment is usually ancient and, even when new, was purchased from the lowest bid. They are plagued by long lines, short staff, and limited funds for any improvements. Hurry up and wait is the common description.

While in the military, I only had one semi major injury, non-combat related. I only lived 10 minutes from the post hospital, but an ambulance had to be sent from a town 20 miles away to get me there. While in the hospital, patients were required to do most of the janitorial work such as mopping and trash removal. After leaving the hospital, my doctor didn't think I needed any special restrictions and was back on normal duty. So, after less than a week of being able to walk for the first time in over a month, I went on a 10 mile Battalion run. Since leaving the military, my doctors have told me that this is probably why I still have trouble with that knee.

To be fair, the military hospital took great care of my very premature son when he was born and also when he had very serious surgery at only 18 months. Of course, on both occasions, he was immediately transferred to very nice civilian hospitals.

My experience could only be isolated occurrences, but I've heard similar stories from numerous friends over the years.

-- Posted by Philemon on Tue, Nov 30, 2010, at 8:20 AM

NanaDot I am not saying to stop helping people, I am saying put safe guards in to stop people from abusing the system.

I think it would be better to help the people get to a point to where they do not need the help.

And ramdom drug is a must in my opinion period.

Next time you get a chance why don't you ask a Veteran what they think of how the government is doing running the VA?

Hey wait lets ask Philemon he is a Vet?

What do you think is an fair amount of overhead for a private industry in the health care industry?

I never once said a WORD about you saying it was being repub or dem, I was just stating my opinion on what the problem is.

And no I don't have the guts to let the government be in charge of my health care!

-- Posted by Gal66 on Tue, Nov 30, 2010, at 7:26 AM

Cheesehead you seem to have a real hang up about Fox News and Rush. Truth hurts.

Why has American fell behind the rest of the world?

Liberals like to punish success and lower morality for an equal playing field. Takes away any incentive to be great.

Why do we have so many people without health and/or dental insurance?

When did health or dental insurance become a right?

Why do the unemployed workers not deserve an extension on their benefits?

They deserve a job not extension of benefits to continue to not look for work.

Why don't gays not deserve the right to serve their country, but we allow allies who have gays in their military assist us in war?

I'm sure we have gays in our military and lifestyle should not be an issue to serve the country. Washington continues to make it an issue. I don't publicly proclaim my heterosexuality why should they have to proclaim they are gay.

Why do the rich CEO's deserve tax cuts when it will cost billions to a government that has a huge deficit?

Why does a tax cut always cost the government when it is not their money to begin with. Government needs to live within their means just like us. What qualifies them to determine who is rich or how much you can make. If we have to pay taxes lets pay our fair share but make it fair across the board so everyone has some skin in the game. If you don't pay taxes you don't have the right to vote to increase mine that would be a conflict of interest.

Why do many in this country go hungry when Wall street can make money off people losing their homes?

Wouldn't have happened if loan regulations had not been relaxed.

When will the Republicans stand up and help us come up with solutions to some of the most important problems we face here in America? When if they dont have solutions will they step aside and quit blocking progress and allow the real leaders to get some work done?

The last 2 years the Dems had the majority and could have fixed everything. But they are not going to stick their necks our without bringing the Repubs along so they have someone to blame if it fails.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Nov 30, 2010, at 6:53 AM

MrXray since I did say "latest example" in my last post it seems fair that I cite a previous example.

"I mean the CEOs might get chastised by the President and Congress but Congress and the President cannot really punish them because to do so would expose all the politicians that had their hands in the causes of the economic crash. People like Franks and Dodd and Fannie and Freddie and the Government financial entities that forced and allowed the local banks to lend to risky people with bad loans on houses that were too expensive and then allowed the bigger banks and financial businesses to trade on packages of these bad loans."

Here again you single out liberals, and progressives to make your point. You know as well as I do that you could have used similar acts by conservatives, cited by name, to make the same point. I know that you will not disagree with that. I have yet to see you call out conservatives by name. When you do mention them it is in a better light. That is bias, you can't have it both ways.

Things are a mess in congress, and rats all sniff for, and will all scurry to the same cheese.

Do you really see the "Boehner" house as one that will revive America?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Nov 30, 2010, at 1:11 AM

MrXray you said, "fund liberal progressive things such as bridges to nowhere". Eighty two Senators voted for that bill. As much as I wish it were true, there are not eighty two liberal progressive senators.

You continue to weaken the strength of your message by repeated prevarication, as shown by this latest example.

I expect that from the talking heads. It is my understanding that you share my distaste for that ilk. Why then do you emulate their behavior?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Nov 30, 2010, at 12:23 AM

rr,

I guess dut to years of watching Fox news and listening to Rush Limbaugh has condtioned you to believe that everyone is dealt the same hand in life and hard work always equals everything out.

Why wont some of you people get out and try to get to know some of these people that need and/or receive help from the government. What about peoples health? What about irresponsible parent who fail to provide for their children do we just forget about them because we might prolong their suffering after all you people always seem to think this is a pattern.

I have went to college and made a better life for myself, but that doesnt mean that I will forget about those who havent or couldn't. I would be ashamed of myself if I made my life better but at the same time advocated for people to suffer.

Most people need some help at one time or another in their life, but can't get due to the policy of the Republicans. Whats even more concerning is the self righteous religous folk who think because they have a good life that others dont deserve this because they dont work hard enough or they arent smart enough.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Mon, Nov 29, 2010, at 10:57 PM

Why has American fell behind the rest of the world?

Why do we have so many people without health and/or dental insurance?

Why do the unemployed workers not deserve an extension on their benefits?

Why don't gays not deserve the right to serve their country, but we allow allies who have gays in their military assist us in war?

Why do the rich CEO's deserve tax cuts when it will cost billions to a government that has a huge deficit?

Why do many in this country go hungry when Wall street can make money off people losing their homes?

When will the Republicans stand up and help us come up with solutions to some of the most important problems we face here in America? When if they dont have solutions will they step aside and quit blocking progress and allow the real leaders to get some work done?

-- Posted by cheesehead on Mon, Nov 29, 2010, at 10:41 PM

If I'm not mistaken Nana and Cheesehead thinks the American dream should be given to you? Any dream worth achieving is worth working for anything else is welfare.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Nov 29, 2010, at 10:39 PM

Its a shame in this country that due to the fact that many listen to the right wingers and their propaganda we have fell short in giving many the chance to live the American dream.

Americans fell short in achieving a single payer or universal health care. Its very concerning that anyone would believe a for profit company will ever put the needs of citizens over their bottom dollar.

Its about time we the people stop doing the dirty work of big coorapations and Fox news. Its time to hold them accountable. We need to stop the right winge from controlling their message which allows the rich to get richer and the poor to get poorer.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Mon, Nov 29, 2010, at 10:29 PM

NanaDot let me address each point from my view I know you may not agree with what I have to say but we also know I don't agree with alot of what you have to say but some of my views just may surprise yoi.

I could not agree with you more that the system is broke, but why can't we have safe guards to try to help the changes along the way?

I do not think it is the height of insanity to train and equip soldiers but I do think it is wrong to get involved in places we should not be for the wrong reasons

If I read what your saying right you think the we could send them to school, and buy them a house for less than $100,000 I don't think this is possible

From what I have seen you post you seem anti- military.

In my opinion the welfare system fails period!

I like the idea of a flat tax.

Let me ask you this question do you think it is possible that there are people "abusing the system"?

Do you not know one person that is abusing the system?

I do think there could be a bunch of money saved by the Pentagon/military with out a doubt.

I do also have a huge problem with $4MILLION dollar birthday parties.

Insurance companies and pharma are out of control but I don't think our government is able to run the health care system any better.

Myself I do not think it is a repub or dem problem it is a problem that stems from them not willing to work together.

And that is why at the last election I did not vote for anyone that was an incumbent.

-- Posted by Gal66 on Mon, Nov 29, 2010, at 10:08 PM

I never said any of the stuff you said was ok I was simply pointing out the hypocrisy of all the harping about war and empire building which are legitimate problems but we have worse atrocities happening here at home but we say nothing about it. Abortion the same as war has long term effects on everyone involved but we try to do things for our veterans but what do we do for the women that are emotionally scarred from having an abortion. Nothing! Simply put we can't see the forest for the trees.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Nov 29, 2010, at 9:06 PM

Nana the 53 million was over the last 37 years. Divide 81.26 by 37 will round to 2.2. The same as using the figure of 1.2 million a year. Sorry Nana but you have to use the right figures not just what you want.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Nov 29, 2010, at 8:47 PM

How do you figure Nana the study said there were at least 1,787 that perform abortions probably more. That would be 672 per doctor that is only 2.2 per day excluding weekends and holidays. Horsefeathers? Hardly!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Nov 29, 2010, at 8:35 PM

That was just the short answer Gal66 keep up the good work.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Nov 29, 2010, at 8:13 PM

Dems want blacks to rely on gov't

All things considered, Miller decides it is "a cruel irony" that liberals, who declare themselves to be best friends with the black community, would rather keep blacks subservient to government than encourage them to create their own wealth.

http://www.onenewsnow.com/Business/Defau...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Nov 29, 2010, at 8:11 PM

United States Sees 53 Million Abortions Since Roe in 1973

It is estimated there are 1.2 million abortion performed annually. Let's see how many soldiers have been killed because of war in the last 37 years? I think we should be proud that our country allows more babies to be killed then soldiers every year. We hear all the outcry about empire building and how we shouldn't be at war but nothing about abortion. Wow!!!!!!! I guess we all have priorities.

http://www.lifenews.com/2010/11/26/nat-6...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Nov 29, 2010, at 8:02 PM

NanaDot I will tell you this about this one thing you said "if we are going to 'subsidize' anything, it should be old people, and children...

"

I do like this idea very much but here is a thought.

I was raised by a single parent my Mom in a time when if your old enough you may remember food commodities but even back then there was people that sold their commodities to buy beer and cigarettes.

My point in this is if we are to subsidize old people, and children then we have to have very strong rules to take care of misuse and we have to find out why these people need help and try to fix that problem.

I do not have a problem giving people a helping hand if it's a helping hand up not a helping hand that keeps on giving.

-- Posted by Gal66 on Mon, Nov 29, 2010, at 2:18 PM

NanaDot you should ask yourself the same question!

Are you sure you don't have burn-out? You seem to see, like cops, so much bad, that you forget or never see, any good. ???

-- Posted by Gal66 on Mon, Nov 29, 2010, at 1:56 PM

The whole sense of self pride or lack of it in our society and the whole entitlement climate that we have that breeds more and more generations of children that are born into poverty that just accept that life style is the exact reason that I am not totally against the government establishing work-type programs IF the funding is there and IF (Which is the biggest IF of the equation) the project is one that is logical, needed and benefits an entire region or the nation and is not for the sole benefits of some special interest group that is donating to the politician so that an fancy multi-million dollar airport that wont be used can be built.

We need to get away from the "money for nothing" entitlement programs and instead have programs that require you give back something in exchange for the assistance and/or are programs that provide some real employment opportunities that would allow for the development of new businesses.

AND we need to actually address the REASONS that people are poor, such as did they drop out of school, become an addict, have mental or physical problems and on and on.

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Nov 29, 2010, at 12:37 AM

nanadot: You stated that people would work for whatever wage they can find in a FALSE hope that they can make ends meet... I can see that in a few cases but that is not the norm today. The norm is for people to get onto government handouts and unemployment checks and they get used to the free money and they get lazy and complacent and depressed and they dont want to go work so they wont work for less than what Uncle Sam is giving them....

You can argue against that all you want but I know first had a ton of people in that position.

We dont have a sense of individual pride like back before and during the first part of the Great Depression. FDR had a person go out and talk to people and even he found out that the people did not want handouts but wanted to work for a living and that is why many people refused to enter the soup line or accept handouts from the government because they had self pride and wanted to EARN their own way.

With more and more government entitlements that sense of individual pride has been replaced with social acceptance and individual acceptance and complacency and laziness to the point that living on Uncle Sam's dole is not seen as undesirable except as a last resort but something that is more preferable than actually working.

That is why we have to get away from entitlement programs that are not actually looking at INDIVIDUALS and the specific reason(S) that they are poor. Handouts breeds a perpetuation of generation after generation of people who are unwilling to do the hard work that is required to overcome life's obstacles because it is easier to NOT do the hard work AND because it is more socially acceptable for people to be "on welfare"

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Nov 29, 2010, at 12:32 AM

Here is a good example of the bad and costly influence of government regulation.

I was the manager of a radiology department for a while. Prior to my employment they did construction on the department and had to shut down their mammography section. After I got there the remodel was complete and we met with the FDA, the State of Missouri, and other government entities to determine what new equipment we should purchase. The original equipment prior to the remodel was deemed out of date by new rules laid out by one or more of the government entities. After we determined which machine that we could afford that met the new rules we purchased it.

We had to buy the machine, pay to have it installed with some minor remodeling to adapt to the new equipment. We had added expenses of buying a different type of film that was more expensive. We had to have a new film processor. We had to pay a TON of money for the government entities to come in validate the installation and certify it for usage. We had to have a Radiation Physics person come in and test the machine. WE had to pay to have someone come and train our techs to use the new equipment. AND the government was at the time starting on its program of reducing reimbursements for mammography exams.

It was a VERY expensive process.

About 3 months after we were approved to see and started seeing patients, Congress passed a series of laws that put into place a whole new set of criteria for mammo equipment. Long story short, we had to stop seeing mammo patients, re-evaluate the purchase of new equipment and pay all of the same expenses all over again. Because we were the only hospital within about a 3 county area in a very rural area we felt we had to provide this service so people did not have to drive a long distance to obtain this exam.

The hospital had to eat the cost of BOTH sets of equipment and their surveys and tests and accrediations processes and training and installation and everything else. YET the government continued to reduce the amounts that they would reimburse for mammograms to the point where we were losing money for each exam.

Why did they make the second change in rules about mammo equipment? It was an emotional response to a spouse of a Congress man who happened to get Breast Cancer.

Now we are seeing studies that are more and more saying that mammograms are not the end all be all in diagnosing Breast cancer.

This same practice of just changing rules and regs mid stream for ANY reason and every reason ads more and more cost and waste to any industry.

I am not saying that rules dont ever need modified but the mechanism in which those changes take place are extremely faulty and costly and often take place due to emotional or extremist influence of some special interest group.

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Nov 29, 2010, at 12:24 AM

OKR: You stated a KEY issue with the financial meltdown.... you said if they would have been PROPERLY regulated and monitored then this would not have happened.

People keep saying they were not regulated nor monitored. This is just not true. For every industry there are tons and tons of rules and regulations mandated by the various stated, local and federal governments. The problem is not that there are no regulations, as many on the left proclaim, but that the rules that are there are written based on special interest groups that are manipulating the politicians who want to get re-elected who manipulate the rules to benefit whomever they think will contribute the most to their campaign chests.

The lefties want to blame the republicans for the finacial mess, but it was people like President Bush and Sen McCain and other Reps that were standing up during the early and mid 2000s saying that the sub-prime markets and fannie and freddie were tied to our entire economy and that the over-inflated housing market was going to crash and when it did our entire economy would go with it. THEN it was leading DEMs like franks and Dodd that said the Repubs were fear mongering and that Fannie and Freddie were fine and nothing was wrong with the housing industry.

Again NOT the fault of not having regulations but the fault of either the rules and regulations that were in place of the failure of those in Congress who were on the committees to actually be honest enough to let their political bias not cloud their judgement because the programs were something they wanted in place or supported.

How many times did we see Barney Franks stuttering that all was well with Fannie and Freddie?

But then again all political sides have a hand in writing the rules and passing laws so it is not just the fault of one side or the other. But on this message thread there are too many people who cannot see past their political bias and continually spout that it is the Repubs fault or it is the fault of big evil corporations only....

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Nov 29, 2010, at 12:08 AM

OKR: Buying a hammer for a 100 bucks is not the same thing as a hospital charging 10 bucks for an aspirin.

The government does not allow for true competitve bidding on contracts and the non-transparent actions of our politicians regarding this and everything else causes contracts to be awarded not on the price/quality merits but on who you know and how you can twist the rules or break the rules to allow for contracts to be awarded without competition and bidding.

In the health care field, hospitals, even non-profit ones have to make a profit to pay their employees and pay for supplies and utilities and etc. AND then with the government reducing over and over the amount that it reimburses for people on the government health care entitlement programs the medical facilities are inbetween a rock and a hard place. They are forced to raise the prices for self pay and those with private insurance and are forced to raise the price on things that the patient uses during their stay.

Example: Where I work we have two orthopeadic groups that come in and provide services.... BUT because of the government rules and regulations they will not accept medicaid patients because they cannot recoup enough money to pay their staff and for the supplies required and all that is involved in doing surgeries and office visits.

So it is not greed and the evil corporations that are doing this it is the POLITICIANS that WRITE THE RULES AND REGS that are HARMING the health care industry.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Nov 28, 2010, at 11:59 PM

nanadot... a living wage is relative. Government interference and random rule changes and Union costs and removal of capital from businesses in the form of taxation forces the cost of living to be astronomical. We are pricing ourselves out of every industy due to the notion that we have to have brand new cars and big screen tvs and the newest phones and gaming systems to keep up with the Jones' and that DOES take place even witht he lower income people... I know TONS of people who use their earned income tax bonuses to buy 1000 dollar car stereos and gaming systems and cell phones and on and ont. I know more 'poor' people who live like this than I know poor people who scrape by on less than minimum wages and cannot feed their selves or their families.

It is so easy to blame some evil big corporation than to address social/economic problems on bad choices of individuals.

LOL Nanadot, you make wild claims that a growing economy is a cancer but that is not based in fact. You have to have a growing economy to fund research and development. No growth in the economy, no profits then cancer drugs and treatments for STDs and any other disease or illness would not have occured.

Taking away taxpayer money to fund liberal progressive things such as sex worker research in China and bridges to no where and more and more entitlement programs only HARMS the economy and reduces the nation's ability to deal with problems and needs. ANY aspect of life when it is conducted to the extremes is harmful and bad. Capitalism and socialism are both no exception.

BUT you cannot continue to take money OUT of the economy and away from the working people's pockets and turn around and give it to failed entitlement programs that are NOT fixing poverty, nor addressing the reasons WHY individuals are poor. Yes there are some businesses that take advantage in any manner that they can. But there are others that do not. AND who is making the rules that are written to benefit the special interest groups that happen to be the flavor of the month? That is why career political class of rulers is a failing mechanism. That is why our founders warned about career politicians and the influence of money and power and how they corrupt people who are too long in a political office.

Our nation's problems cannot be blamed only on the rich and that is stupid. Our problems are systemically intertwined throughout our society from how we uphold criminals who happen to be sports stars as idols, or drug addicts that happen to be be actors and actresses as worthy of praise. Or how little we view the worth of our teachers and public safety people. Or how our society thinks it is cool for teenagers who can sing to dance on stripper polls or rappers who can call women horrible names. Or how we are apathetic to the stupidity in DC and State capitols in how the politicians look down on the common folk and how they play the bribery game.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Nov 28, 2010, at 11:52 PM

Miss October,

I guess I'm inclined to think that many people are just plain lazy and don't want to work for any useful/accurate information when trying to decide about the issues important to all of us.

That would explain the apathy, but I suppose not the hold the talking heads have on so many people.

I wonder if the Tea Party really did generate as much appeal as the media would have us believe. History is against that type organizing having a great amount of success, but I'm sure someone is working on making that determination. However, the findings may never be well-publicized.

I trust probably no more than a handful of people for factual reporting, and my list doesn't include Fox News or MSNBC or CNN or the networks.

Thanks for the confirmation! :)

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Nov 28, 2010, at 11:48 PM

Ireland we feel your pain. Let the speculators off the hook, make the citizens pay for speculator's mistakes. Now, just where has that happened before? Oh, yeah, right here in the good ole U. S. of A. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/26/opinio...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Nov 28, 2010, at 11:14 PM

MrXray it is not just government that pays ridiculous amounts for items such as one hundred dollar hammers, a rip off of the nation's people. Private corporations directly rip off the people. A case in point is the ten dollar aspirin when one is hospitalized. At the heart of it all? A lack of regulation.

There should be an unconscionable cost law, against demanding, or paying ridiculously high prices for items.

Humans are innately greedy. If greed is not checked it expands within the economy like a cancer.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Nov 28, 2010, at 7:14 PM

If you wanna know the real problem with society in general, look at who we consider celebrities.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Nov 28, 2010, at 3:52 PM

ND I got a chuckle out of your statement that "consumption is nothing but TB". After all as I am sure you were aware TB was once called consumption. It was an ironically delicious choice of words.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Nov 28, 2010, at 12:51 PM

I give you all the talking heads,

I would rather be on meds,

than dependent upon the light it sheds.

Much more nourishing I often find,

learn facts, then set my mind.

Eat the fish, not bones, and lemon rind.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Nov 28, 2010, at 12:33 PM

By the way JHH, there was some really good stuff, in the same post that you were talking about TR.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Nov 28, 2010, at 12:05 PM

JHH you said today Teddy Roosevelt would probably be seen as a right winger. In a pigs eye! The great trust buster? Please read the following link which is a digested history of TR (the last great Republican president), and his populist political activism. http://www.nps.gov/history/logcabin/html...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Nov 28, 2010, at 12:02 PM

Slater,

You've hit the nail on its head. I noticed the same thing with those posts, and how can anyone have intellectual honesty when they watch Fox news?

-- Posted by miss october on Sun, Nov 28, 2010, at 10:16 AM

Xray: Had our (corporate) financial institutions been properly regulated we would not have had the meltdown.

As they are still not properly regulated we will likely have a second meltdown.

Bushes base campaign theme of compassionate conservatism was a trick to get the voters to believe that he really cared about the people. It was a lie. That is basic betrayal.

Obama has made many changes, though not enough in my opinion. I am not going to list them all here. If you do not already know what they are, simply google changes that Obama has made.

His base campaign theme of change has stumbled, much of that because of right wing obstructionists.

It seems you want to have it both ways by condemning Obama for not changing things, at the same time supporting, or at the very least minimizing, the role of rightist obstructionists in resisting change.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Nov 28, 2010, at 10:13 AM

MrXray, what's this business about intellectual honesty? You're accusing me of lacking intellectual honesty? HA!

You talk like the person whose mind is closed to everything beyond your own opinions/interpretations, while at the same time you're trying to convince others that you disfavor the actions by both sides.

What's the word for that? :)

By all means, stay closely tuned to your "entertainment" shows! The "facts" will no doubt be flowing in copious quantities.

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Nov 28, 2010, at 9:24 AM

Cheesehead... the tactic of saying that because I MIGHT be against minimum wage or unions then I must also be in favor of poor people getting poorer has no rational basis. That is a false argument. Try again.

The point is that you will NEVER EVER legislate morals, fairness, equality in business practices, nor should you. People will not work for a business if they do not pay enough for the type of work required, especially in todays more mobile world that is connected electronically and we can see what other people are making for the same work.

The 'theoretical' idea that we can somehow force businesses in America to pay higher wages and more and more benefits, which raises cost of products and services, while the rest of the world allows their people to be paid pennies for the same work is idiotic and we are seeing the result of attempting to function in this manner. We could become Isolationists and accept no imports and export nothing and manufacture and provide all things for our own use but this makes a limited pool of consumers and thus our economy would not grow and we could not support the required infrastructure and military that is required to survive in this world.

The trouble with the liberal progressive agenda is that is is almost always based in theoretical ideals that sound good in sound bites and in theoretical application. BUT when real life and outside interests interfere then they are impossible and impractical. The trouble with the extreme right view is that there is no way possible to do away with all interference from the government and things like a free market are dependent on a moral and ethical society of which we are not even close to having.

Another issue with the left is that they want to force THEIR ideas onto me and demand that the government get involved with every aspect of my life. Examples PETA They want to force me to never eat meat. The Anti gun folks want to take away my firearms and my freedom to protect myself and my family and to hunt and shoot. They want to take away happy meals and other foods in San Francisico, NYC and Chicago and other places. I could go on there is a group for every aspect of our lives that is advocating for the ruination of our nation that was founded on the principle that people should be free, founded because of the oppression from European governments that forced people to brave the seas and move to the New World, that caused people to be willing to fight and die for this new nation so that we could live in a FREE nation where our property is actually our own, not something government entities can take away from us, where we were not overburdened with foolish spending by elitist career politicians who no longer dwell amongst their constituents but jet set around in private jets and consider their selves to be above us lowly tax payers

The extreme right wants there to be NO government rules or regulation

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Nov 28, 2010, at 4:43 AM

Slater: I agree, talking heads should be viewed as entertainment based on news and political issues. I have no problem with any view point having its place to discuss their opinions and ideas. The problem is that most of the time the left just cannot admit that their talking heads are equally as bad as the right in how they conduct their selves while hosting talk shows. The people posting on this board are prime examples of this.

I know that Beck and Limbaugh and Hannity are sensationalist and have strong opinions regarding their veiwpoints and that they are biased in that direction. RR3 and JHH and other conservative leaning people have expressed this as well.

But those that are hard core liberal progressives are smitten with their alphabet media outlets and cannot see that they are equally apt to use the same type of sensationalism.

It is my opinion that at least Fox news allows people to disent. They might get tough and slanted questions from the host but the left side gets to express their opinions. When I watch Maddow and Matthews and Olbermann and others on the other networks, I almost always see the leftist host talking almost the entire time with some leftist guests talkiing but when they show the guest from the right, they normally do not get time to speak more than a word or two and then the host belittles and lectures and ignores the guest with the right viewpoint. That is my opinion... maybe I dont watch them enough to see anything different.

watch what you want, have whatever opinions you want but at least have the intellectual honesty to acknowledge that your own side is not without its equally bad flaws... lol

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Nov 28, 2010, at 4:30 AM

Cheesehead... you miss the point, either on purpose or it was beyond you.

The point is that I showed you two extremes... one where the government is a dictatorship and forces its people to work for very low wages in poor conditions and that of a liberal progressive approach where the government has to interfere with every single aspect of life and business adding enormous cost and inefficiency to everything it touches.

Union costs and minimum wages are just one thing.

I never said that there were not good points to a minimum wage or to unions.

BUT can you honestly say that in today's world that the Unions are helping people outside of the Union Bosses group? They add huge costs to the production of everything and they are pricing their selves out of jobs and competition. Unions have huge legacy costs, especially in the Auto and manufacturing industries and in Government employees and government contracts.

Here is another example, maybe it wont hurt your feelings.... When I was younger I worked for a contractor. I was a general laborer for a construction company. In the 1980s I was paid about 14 bucks an hour to do this work and I was happy with this pay in this area at my age with the education that I had at that time and it was more than enough to take care of my family, 4 people including myself. However every time our company bid on government contracts, IF we got the contract, we all got an instant pay raise. My wages went from 14 bucks an hour to over 25 bucks an hour and the higher your training the greater percentage your increase was for government contracts.

This had NOTHING to do with being concerned with the welfare of my family but solely to do with garnering UNION construction contractors equal competition with the local small contractors taht paid less and had less legacy expenses than the Union contractors. This is still how they do the business.

In my home town they are building a hospital and that job has to be done with Union wages so this basically elimiates the local contractors from playing in local big jobs. I was talking with the various types of workers and many of them are making well over 100K a year plus benefits. The simple laborers make anywhere from 50k on up. This does not count the time and a half for saturday work and double time for Sunday work and any overtime. AND contractors who bid on government type jobs can ALWAYS extend the deadline for completing their work AND the projects are Almost always WAY over the agreed upon cost projections.

OR how about the 100 dollar hammers. While the Army does not pay that for a hammer now, the cost to government entities for items are usually higher than for the regular consumer thus costing the tax payer more.

It is one thing for workers to be organized and work to protect their lives and have safe work evironments and protections. BUT to extort the business to the point of preventing your own company from being competitive is counter intuitive to the what the goal of a Union should be.

But then who cares about this right, I mean after all it is the Unions that are the major supporter of Obama and as long as the Union bosses get paid by extorting money from the workers in the form of Dues and special deals with the President's admin then the workers dont really matter right? Nor does the harm that Unions are doing to our economy right?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Nov 28, 2010, at 4:21 AM

I have what I believe is are valid questions regarding people doing talk programs:

If the consensus is that information put forth by people like Beck, Limbaugh, Maddow, Olbermann, and others is misleading or even untrue, why listen?

What is it about their presence that's so commanding?

Are so many people in this country so lacking in the ability to reason for themselves that they feel compelled to rely on others to do their thinking for them?

I don't listen to any of them, but I've heard them talking about the issues (or just talking to hear themselves, I suppose), and I've heard both sides present distortions of the facts in order to suit their purposes or the purposes of those who pay their salaries.

Some people will do anything for money and fame (fame used advisedly).

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Nov 27, 2010, at 11:52 PM

xray

The question you post is about the political elite. I would actually prefer them not to be elitest in any way, but you post of the demons of unionized labor and the shackles of min wage lol.

Dont you think it would have to be an elitist that would oppose unions and min wage? Many families are allowed to support their families due to unions and would be allowed to with an increase in min wage. So you want the poor to be poorer?

My view of an elitest would be someone that can't understand the common man in the working class. I would prefer someone that has had to deal with the struggles and know how it feels to be poor and has had to work several jobs to make it along with feeling empathy with there fellow man not rich CEO's and big coorps.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Sat, Nov 27, 2010, at 11:32 PM

Cheesehead...

why are you scared of some one from OUTSIDE of the political elite, better than everyone else political families?

Dont you agree that we have for too long allowed the politically elite from both sides of the aisle to Rule down from on Mount DC where they treat us like poor uneducated fools?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Nov 27, 2010, at 10:54 PM

To add to my point.. If we punish a multi billion dollar corporation with a 6 figure fine or even a 7 figure fine, is it not still financially rewarding for the business to continue their bad or illegal practices than it is to abide by the over abundence of government rules and regulations?

Refer to the Cost of complying with Government regulation to our economy Post that I posted before.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Nov 27, 2010, at 10:51 PM

OKR: you stated "Corporate meltdown due to LACK of regulations" ROFLMAO... can you name ONE corporation that is NOT regulated to death? can you name one corporation or industry that does not have MORE government regulations that are based on special interest group influence both from within the specific industry and from those that oppose that industry? Can you name ONE corporation or industry that does NOT have foolish, non-sensical, expensive, inefficient government imposed red tape that adds cost and waste of capital?

Here are a few examples. Auto industry. Not counting all that the unions add to the cost of an automobile but the fact that we allow each state AND the federal government and sometimes local cities and counties to add and change upon a whim to rules and regulations regarding exhaust output, MPG limits and safety gadgets is simply ridiculous. These types of rules and regs and laws are almost always made as knee jerk reactions to some accident or some minority radical environmental group and are not logical nor well thought out rules and regs AND because the auto industry has to do research and development years prior to the release of said updates, when you have so many entities that can add and change rules and regs and laws any time they want, forcing the auto companies to alter and adjust to these ever changing rules and regs adds to the price of the car and the inefficiency to the company.

You can apply this same thing to any industry that exists.

NOW for you lefists. that does NOT mean I dont think that rules and regulations should not exist at all.. that is a figment of the leftist imagination.

But if you looked at it honestly, we have a sense of entitlement and a sense that Uncle Sam will bail bad business models out simply because they are very big companies OR because they are the flavor of the month by the politicians in power at the time. If we imposed financially BREAKING penalties for the violation of SIMPLE and easy to understand rules and regs and did NOT bail out companies when their business models were bad and had too many bad actors like the Unions in today's world, then the good business models would continue to exist and the bad ones would fail and go away. Anyone that thinks that GM failing would crash our nation is silly. Their portion of the car market would be taken over by someone with a good business model and efficient financial practices.

We dont really punish the bad acting businesses so it is still financially rewarding for investors and upper management to find loop holes and even break laws in their business management because of the power of special interest influence. You can see this within the Auto industry and the Banking Industry and the Housing industry since those are the most visible examples right now. I mean the CEOs might get chastised by the President and Congress but Congress and the President cannot really punish them because to do so would expose all the politicians that had their hands in the causes of the economic crash. People like Franks and Dodd and Fannie and Freddie and the Government financial entities that forced and allowed the local banks to lend to risky people with bad loans on houses that were too expensive and then allowed the bigger banks and financial businesses to trade on packages of these bad loans.

TOO much government interference is what led to this mess not lack of regulation.

I am anxiously awaiting example(s) of ANY industy or corporation or business that does not have government rules and regulations.

I mean YOU DID claim that it was a lack of these regulations and rules that caused this economic crash.... example please!

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Nov 27, 2010, at 10:50 PM

This one is for the Tea Party nation. If youre a republican and Barbara Bush tells you to stay home you might want to listen.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/201...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Sat, Nov 27, 2010, at 10:00 PM

maddow lies:

http://bigjournalism.com/sright/2010/04/...

http://www.charlotteconservative.com/ind...

http://liberalfail.com/2010/03/surprise-...

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/jack-colema...

http://merriemarie.amplify.com/2010/04/2...

Not to waste your time, but I could post lie after lie after disortion after distortion... this is how the leftist media works... EXACTLY in the same manner that the left accuses the right of.

EXCEPT the common folk, like those of us on this message board, who happen to be leaning right CAN ADMIT openly and readily that the right talking heads and politicians are flawed and utilize sensationalism and disortions and OPINIONS but the common folk on this message board that lean left (almost all of you but not all) think that their talking heads and politicians somehow have non-stinking excrement and that they somehow have a moral high ground but cannot see that their ground is actually the sinking sand of blind hypocrisy.

So you tell me which is worse. Knowing your personal beliefs and philosophies AND openly acknowledging that some of the talking heads and politicians are faking it and distoring things and using sensationalism OR Knowing your personal beliefs but hypocritically standing up and saying that the talking heads and politicians that are on your side are Honest, Moral and NEVER EVER use sensationalism, distortion and never ever lie?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Nov 27, 2010, at 9:53 PM

xray,

So your criteria is based on campaign promises? Arent you glad that he didn't fulfill all his promises?

1)The messiah deal was just some right wing propaganda to get the religous right crying foul!

2)We on the left don't believe those on the right so we have only to look at their most recent history?

3) Look at the alternative we had which was McCain/Palin. We would be in at least 1 more war if we had elected them with North Korea and/or Iran.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Sat, Nov 27, 2010, at 9:45 PM

Cheesehead... LOL I know you meant it as belittlement and insulting, but I agree with you regarding Boehner... lol he is orange... YET how come you cannot also equally bash your lemming leader Pelosi and all her botox that has poisoned her brain cells to the point that she looks like plastic woman?

How many tax payer funded private jet trips has she taken to get her face redone?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Nov 27, 2010, at 9:28 PM

OKR: LOL I never ever said that Bush and Chenney did not fail on campaign promises... yet Bush did not promise the whole political game change of the openness and transparency that Obama did.

My point was that in MY opinion Obama used the biggest most expensive campaign in history to brainwash people who were blinded by Bush hate into thinking that he (Obama) was some how the next coming of the messiah and that his campaign promises were golden and true and should not be questioned.... So in MY opinion Obama was the most blatant campaign in MY time period to promise these grandiose things and from day one failed to uphold these changes in values within politics and in fact worked hard to hide everything that he did.

I remember Bush campaigns there was a big difference, I remember Clinton campaigns and Gore Campaigns and the first Bush and etc back until Reagan. None of these made the types of promises that Obama did regarding the changes promised.

Here is a question for you. Why is it that when I make a statement regarding the leftist politicians, or anyone on the right makes a statement regarding leftist politicians regarding their opinions, those people that disagree with us have to use the tactic to automatically go the extreme to say that we 'are forgetting about how bad the right is'? Especially, when most of us who disagree with leftist politicians and their agenda and philosophy ALSO disagree with the career elitist politicians in the Republican party as well? And have stated such over and over.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Nov 27, 2010, at 9:26 PM

Has anyone noticed how our soon to be house leader John Boehner looks just a little orange?

Some reports on the internet state that its costing taxpayers $200 million a day. How else could he get this orange? In the words of Glenn Beck "I couldnt say this if it weren't true and still keep my job".

-- Posted by cheesehead on Sat, Nov 27, 2010, at 9:12 PM

So cheesehead we are racist and demeaning. Have you actually read your post? Proves my point perfectly. Thank you.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Nov 27, 2010, at 8:58 PM

News,

Where did you go? Are you on a vacation or something? So what the right wingers get to post racist analogies and sterotypes along demeaning posts. Would you expect anything else? They fight for this to be allowed on a daily basis all the way from Fox news to just local politics, but you would call them on it. Not to mention you are the only economist we have here.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Sat, Nov 27, 2010, at 8:44 PM

Jo you still with us buddy? How about you News Across?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Nov 27, 2010, at 5:16 PM

Miss October,

Thanks for that!

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Nov 27, 2010, at 3:20 PM

What the f

I found Xrays evidence file against Rachel Maddow im not sure if its from his library or not, but quite sure this guy is fans of Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh also. This guy also thinks Pres Bush did a better job than Obama, so now you have all the facts they need.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8IMaul-D...

-- Posted by miss october on Sat, Nov 27, 2010, at 2:03 PM

MrXray sometimes you flabbergast me. Did you have your blinders on for eight years? The Bush/Cheney Administration did everything that you accuse Obama of doing, and much, much, more. Have you forgotten the compassionate conservative campaign?

While I do respect your opinion, though you may even choose to quarrel with that, I have greater respect for our nation's historians who are already lining up to declare George Bush our nation's worst president. There remains a few quibblers who won't give up on Buchanan, but that is about his only competition. I have expressed my own dissatisfaction with Obama, but the worst ever? Really?

It is far too early to project his place in history. Two years in, are you kidding me? He is a president that appears to be overwhelmed by the most awful mess we have had since the First Great Depression. Economic chaos, two wars that never should have have began, (an appropriately strong anti-terrorist strike in Afghanistan is not a war), corporate melt down due to lack of regulation, on, and on. It could be that any one would be overwhelmed.

It seems to me that your conclusion is based on emotions rather than a rational thought process. It is way out in right field, you know, the position on little league base ball teams where the least able player is placed. ;) There are times that you have been a good pitcher, this is not one of them.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Nov 27, 2010, at 12:08 PM

Mr.xray,

Can you tell us specifically where Rachel Maddow has lied? I'm curious.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Nov 27, 2010, at 7:55 AM

Ohhh... NOW I have to add for those liberals who will automatically spew something about me being totally against ANY rules and regulations, dont even go there, that would not be anything grounded in reality.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Nov 27, 2010, at 3:23 AM

The cost of Government regulation and compliance (Beyond government spending) the real cost to the US Economy. One of every THREE dollars goes to service the cost of government taxation and regulation compliance.

From this report, the second link, this information was passed along:

"Read that again! An astounding 35% of national income is spent on federal tax and compliance costs. And like I said before, small businesses are faring marginally worse. A report from the Office of Advocacy of the US Small Business Administration found that small businesses pay a disproportionately large share of regulatory costs. The initial overall cost in 2008 was $8,086 per employee. But ... "these costs were not borne equally by businesses of all sizes. The regulatory cost per employee for businesses with fewer than 20 employees was $10,585, compared with $7,454 for medium sized firms (employing between 20 and 499 employees), and $7,755 for large firms."

So government IS harming the welfare of our most wage earning and job creation sectors of our economy, the small business person.

I dont think I ever hear about the COST of complying to the horrendous amount of government red tape, only the liberals saying that the evil big corporations are ONLY out to take advantage of the worker.... is this NOT an example of how the Government is taking advantage of the tax payer without full disclosure?

http://boortz.com/nealz_nuze/2010/09/the...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424...

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Nov 27, 2010, at 3:19 AM

Nanadot said: WTF - Beck and Limbaugh were laughing all the way to the bank, until they started to believe their own BS = which is the definition of psychotic...

Can you not turn this around and say that the radical talk show hosts like Rachel, the liar Madow and Chris, tingly leg Matthews and Olbermann and all the other leftist talking heads are laughing all the way to the bank until THEY started to believe all their own BS?

GOOD greif, EVERY day you display your Hypocrisy. It is fun to watch

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Nov 27, 2010, at 2:13 AM

OKR: Just saw your question. I never make claims that Republicans candidates would not have run on promises and then broke them.... all politicians do it. However, in my time, I have not seen a politician, other than Obama, that had the media backing that Obama had and who made promises to "change" politics in DC dramatically who then came out from the first step and conducted politics as per the norm with the additional tactics of using SEIU thugs and other means to intimidate people who dared question him and stand up against the Obama agenda.

It is one thing to stand up and promise a specific thing, but when you stand up and promise transparency and openness and honesty and PUBLIC debate and all the things that the REAL citizens of the America wanted due to the corruption in BOTH parties and the political game then turn around and push bills at the eleventh hour and during recesses appoint radical people and totally go against those types of promises it stands out at a much grander scale.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Nov 27, 2010, at 2:04 AM

http://maaadddog.wordpress.com/2009/03/0...

more reading

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Nov 27, 2010, at 1:56 AM

Here is an interesting article about the LIES you are spewing about Rush and what the liberal hate mongers are saying Rush said.... lol Even some of the original people making claims that Rush said the stufff about MLK and the medal of honor have said they got their source from a VERY RADICAL hack job author of a book that made lots of claims with no documentation or proof. AND that this author's source was from Wiki entries regarding Rush that came from unverified sources and were never proven and anonymous sources.

SO if you are going to claim Rush said the racist things that you are saying then put up the video link of the radio shows where he said these things. LOL

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Nov 27, 2010, at 1:54 AM

Happy Thanksgiving (Belated!) to all

I was not going to say anything else, but yet again NANADOT and cheesehead are spewing their HATE messages. By claiming that the RIGHT has been the only side of the political realm to use fear mongering and hate sounding messages you are using a sadly mentally and intellectually hypocritical attempt at belittlement that is nothing more than uneducated hate speech.

The left has used fear mongering and race baiting to intimidate and to attempt to stop people from being vocal in their FREEDOM of speech and freedom to disent with the government or any political party or entity within the political game.

The left simply and quickly runs out of things to use in real and logical and rational debate so they ultimately and almost always resort to calling the right names like racist and tea bagger. How many times have we heard that simply because we disagree with Obama's agenda that we have to be racist or stupid?

COME ONE when are you going to use brain cells and actually come up with something original?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Nov 27, 2010, at 1:28 AM

Better have an armload of AnneD's indigestion remedies handy if you read the following:

"The Arrangements Have Been Made (You Lost.) (continued): Louisiana has sold $5.9 billion in federally funded, Katrina-designated bonds since the 2005 hurricane. How much of the state's bond haul has gone to projects inside the city limits of N'awlins? 1% How much for the ground-zero/wiped-out Lower Ninth Ward? 0%. How much for the state's oil industry? 29%. Harper's Index (December 2010) [not free online] /// Newsweek (8-25-2010, by Ariella Cohen, the go-to writer on this issue)"

Incidentally, Academy has Winchester 9-mm ammo on sale for $10. a box (while supplies last).

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Nov 26, 2010, at 8:11 PM

You are welcome 66 Galaxy. See I can properly spell galaxy. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Nov 25, 2010, at 11:30 PM

Thanks for the help Oklahoma Reader and Eric

-- Posted by Gal66 on Thu, Nov 25, 2010, at 10:12 PM

Jihadists hiding bombs in breast implants

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/03/booby-...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Nov 25, 2010, at 8:05 PM

Jindal Says Congress Should Work Part-Time

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/11/...

"When they live under the same rules and laws they passed for the rest of us, maybe you'd see some more common sense coming out of Washington, D.C." he told the conservative publication. "Instead, you got a permanent governing political class."

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Nov 25, 2010, at 7:59 PM

66Galaxie regarding the one you posted that was an email you got you can handle it as follows.

Copy the first ten, or so words of the statement that you got. Then paste it in your search engine, (also known as paste to google). Hit search (the one you copied to the blog shows up as multiple hits). Click on one of them. When your statement comes up right click on the heading (the http etc. of the site). Copy that.

Then make your introductory statement. Right click afterward. Your link will appear.

Happy Thanksgiving.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Nov 25, 2010, at 6:39 PM

"Response by Eric Crump/Editor:

Long and/or unoriginal content should be linked to rather than pasted into a forum like this."

Well Eric if you could be so kind to tell me how to link to an email I got I would be glad to do it!!!!

-- Posted by Gal66 on Thu, Nov 25, 2010, at 4:17 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
OKR beat me to it. His procedure should work. If you have something you want to post but *can't* find it anywhere with a search, send me email at ecrump@marshallnews.com and I'll help.

Oh he did take the day off wtf thanks for caring.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Nov 25, 2010, at 1:46 PM

rr3yvo,

It's Thanksgiving. Maybe you could do us all a favor and give Rush the day off.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Nov 25, 2010, at 9:33 AM

The True Story of Thanksgiving

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/s...

The bounty was shared with the Indians." They did sit down" and they did have free-range turkey and organic vegetables, "but it was not the Indians who saved the day. It was capitalism and Scripture which saved the day," as acknowledged by George Washington in his first Thanksgiving Proclamation in 1789.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Nov 25, 2010, at 9:17 AM

So Eric why was my post deleted this time?

-- Posted by Gal66 on Thu, Nov 25, 2010, at 8:24 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Long and/or unoriginal content should be linked to rather than pasted into a forum like this.

Happy Thanksgiving to all, left right, and center.

I know that some of us are squeamish on this holiday, and I include myself in that number.

There are others that don't percieve that there is anything unusual about the holiday, and just celebrate it as a family tradition, those I believe are in the majority.

There are those who have some knowlege of the history of the holiday, but for several reasons have adopted the get over it, that was a long time ago attitude.

I am of course, talking about our betrayal, and portrayal, of the indigenous people of this beautiful land. There is no doubt that we committed genocide against them.

It is significant that many of that race do not celebrate Thanksgiving.

Though it troubles me I will still celebrate Thanksgiving, for what I believe is the right reason, simply that I am thankful for much, and wish to gather with others to share joy. I also on the occasion, reflect upon those who are no longer among us. These days I include reflection about those who were victims of the american genocide, and those who remain its victims. Thats not much, it takes more effort to slap a yellow, or pink ribbon on one's car.

This is my day of thanks giving, and I will not give it up. There are better ways to support the native americans, than to boycott my family.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Nov 24, 2010, at 11:11 PM

NanaDot,

If you give them any reason to hate they will take it. Fox news and Rush are making money and influencing the minds of their viewers. They think hate should control the agenda.

I'm posting some good examples from the Rush Limbaugh files.

Rush Limbaugh thinks that Native Americans should pay reparations because they invented smoking and Martin Luther King's killer should receive a medal of honor.

If this isn't racist im not sure what is? I will post a video of Rush's rant trying to degrade Native Americans and Thanksgiving along with his Top 10 racist comments.

http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/20101124002...

http://newsone.com/nation/casey-gane-mcc...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Wed, Nov 24, 2010, at 9:06 PM

sorry to say - but there are those poeple in powerful places who are working specifically for the overthrow, demise, extinction - whatever you want to call it - of our nation. and they are doing it from within. people who say that, as they see it, now that the right people are in leadership in washington and the white house, we have to work from the ground up to completely change the nation - to turn it onside out and restructure it all - with the 'have nots' sticking it to the 'haves' for a change.

sounds like lunacy - but what it really is is a holy war. and no - this isn't supposed to be on the religion speak out page - because in this instance religion and politics go hand in hand. our children's generation will have it much harder than we have had it - and primarily because of what we've let our nation become ...

it's a holy war and it's going to get lots tougher.

i'm just sayin'

zeke

-- Posted by zeke on Wed, Nov 24, 2010, at 12:13 PM

No Nana I am really sorry!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Nov 24, 2010, at 8:57 AM

So NanaDot do you like your tax dollars going to support people that do not work?

I am not talking about people that have legitimate disabilities or the single mother or father that has a job but needs some help because of a dead beat mother or father.

I am talking about the people that work the system.

-- Posted by Gal66 on Wed, Nov 24, 2010, at 8:09 AM

Gosh Nana for a minute there I thought I was seeing progress I'm sorry.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Nov 24, 2010, at 6:49 AM

News, I wish you would reconsider. Many of us have learned a lot from you, especially on economics. I think that even those on the right would grudgingly admit that their understanding of economics has increased since arguing with you.

Trite, but true, "don't throw out the baby with the bath water".

Anyway, if you have made an irrevocable decision, it has been great.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Nov 24, 2010, at 12:48 AM

By the way rr3, I don't watch the show these days. It has become too preachy for me. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Nov 24, 2010, at 12:39 AM

Wrong blog, meant that for the religion blog. (yawn, yawn, and yawn)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Nov 23, 2010, at 11:16 PM

Optimistic, sorry for the typo, and the one on separate in an earlier post. (yawn)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Nov 23, 2010, at 11:14 PM

Cheesehead I never said Sharpton and Jackson were the reason for racism. They perpetuate racism because of the money. Heck you probably think I'm racist!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Nov 23, 2010, at 11:04 PM

rr,

So what you are saying is that Sharpton and Jackson are the reason for racism. Arent you just using more of Limbaugh's propaganda I believe so.

Didn't Rush Limbaugh say the MLK's admitted killer deserves a medal of honor ah yes he did.

Didnt Rush say that African Americans make up only 12% of the population so who cares about them ah yes he did.

Didn't every white Republican NFL owner say they didnt want him to own a team because he was racist. I won't spoil all the fun here is a link with more Limbaugh racist statements. Defending him or quoting his more will just discredit your statements a little more now to all who check this link.

http://newsone.com/nation/casey-gane-mcc...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Nov 23, 2010, at 10:21 PM

cheesehead there are several examples of Sharpton and Jackson available with a simple search. Don't you remember Jackson even used the N word to refer to Obama but it barely made a blip in the news. Really I don't think it matters what they say but if someone else had said like Limbaugh the outrage from the left would still be going on. Sharpton even recently called for the FCC to pull Limbaugh's license because of comments he makes on the air. I don't know about you but the racist thing always seems a bit one sided and the definition is ever changing.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Nov 23, 2010, at 9:16 PM

Nana I see you got it the left has been playing that game for years and some people never get it. Responding to your post in the regular speak out because I thought I was getting too political.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Nov 23, 2010, at 9:00 PM

Cheesehead I think race is of the least important issues going against Obama. People don't like his policies period. Myself I could care less what color he is.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Nov 23, 2010, at 8:58 PM

rr,

No one has ever on this forum posted any racist quotes or videos from Jackson or Sharpton nor has anyone defended them.

So even if we assume these 2 are racist no one is quoting either of them or getting any political insight from them. Do you not provide us with quotes from Limbaugh? We can only assume you get your political agenda from him. As far as Beck goes he doesnt even try to appear like he has a bit of sanity. I heard firsthand several people at my place of employment that they plan on voting for whoever runs against Obama they will vote for them since they don't want a Black president. These same people actually agree with me on some issues, but the thing that matters most to them is race.

We would be glad to take racism out of the equation, but when many use it as a basis of their ideology its hard to do.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Nov 23, 2010, at 8:53 PM

Funny when racism is brought up we never hear Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson't name. They have made a career our of racism and are rich because of it. Doing away with it would put them out of business. Same with the Dems they have played the race card for years and people actually buy into it. Kind of like hate speech am I really expressing hate, or if I commit a hate crime did I really express hate when I committed the crime, we can't define that no more than we can racism. You accuse the right of all of these things but do you really listen to what you say about conservatives, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck or anyone else that disagrees with you. I think many times those accusing someone of racism, bigotry, etc. really are the guilty ones. Also it is a weak excuse to keep from discussing an issue or difference of opinion.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Nov 23, 2010, at 6:59 PM

Philemon this could get real ugly real quick with 37,000+ US troops in S. Korea all it would take is for Kim Jong Il or one of his Generals to order a strike on one United States installations in S. Korea.

-- Posted by Gal66 on Tue, Nov 23, 2010, at 4:22 PM

JHH,

You'll be happy to know that I actually agree with you. Ever notice the change at wal-mart after Sam died?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Nov 23, 2010, at 12:35 PM

Any thoughts on the N Korean attack on S Korea and what the response should be?

-- Posted by Philemon on Tue, Nov 23, 2010, at 10:42 AM

Well,well,well JHH,

Look who's bringin' religion onto the political blog.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Nov 23, 2010, at 5:42 AM

Check out this link its great, even the Simpsons are getting in the action against Fox news and are in the same network. Fox News not racist, but #1 with racists!

http://perezhilton.com/2010-11-22-the-si...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Mon, Nov 22, 2010, at 11:26 PM

Mr. XRay you said,"On a different note... isnt it grand (sarcasm) how Obama, President with promises of openness and honesty pushed through the biggest Arms deal in US history while Congress was in recess in a secret deal that Congress did not get a chance to debate nor discuss, NOR was the public informed of this deal in advance."

I say, "and you have a Republican in mind who if President wouldn't have done the same?" ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Nov 22, 2010, at 11:25 PM

"Beck and Limbaugh were laughing all the way to the bank, until they started to believe their own BS = which is the definition of psychotic... "

Interesting. I work with someone who fits this definition. It's not Beck or Rush tho.

-- Posted by AnneD on Mon, Nov 22, 2010, at 8:41 PM

Funny Cheesehead.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Nov 22, 2010, at 4:25 PM

Has anybody noticed how the TSA and its screening at airports are consuming media time. Its happening on all media outlets. I think its a waste of time doing all this coverage when most Americans dont like the fact of being patted down or getting scanned, but polls show they overwhelming support this to keep flights safe.

All 3 major news outlets are giving negative coverage to the screenings, but I personally havent heard any objectiions to this except on the news. Each news org seems to make political arguments against this, but most just want airlines to be safe regardless of what ideology they are. I'm tired of hearing about pat down if they just give them a few drinks before these pat downs there wont be any arguments.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Mon, Nov 22, 2010, at 3:53 PM

Jo my Dad would have been 105 last month. He has been gone over thirty years. I guess both our Dad's are duck hunting at the big "cut off" in the sky. (grin)

All good with us in the land of the living.

Thanks for the reply.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Nov 22, 2010, at 11:34 AM

i think slavery was a terrible institution and that many are paying for their deeds in whatever afterlife they mighthave found - even now. However - to find the truth about who first owned a negro slave in our nation you'll have to research the names Anthony "Antonio" Johnson (a black man) and John Caster (also a black man) in and around Virginia - mid 1600s. doesn't make it right - but shows that the practice was a human issue and not just a race issue.

just sayin

zeke

-- Posted by zeke on Mon, Nov 22, 2010, at 8:42 AM

Okla: Yes i've been Posting since the Guest Book as Jo. I think i knew Raytown BILL.I was wondering if your Dad is still with us? He would be up in Years,Hell Dad would have been 105,so i doubt if your Dad is still with us? Hope everyone else is well?

-- Posted by Jo on Mon, Nov 22, 2010, at 8:05 AM

The problem is that Beck, like so many others is an entertainer, No more no less. Unfortunately nobody bothers to make the distinction anymore.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Nov 22, 2010, at 7:17 AM

Nana,

I'm sure he is a big fan of Beck. Beck gave his crazy rant about George Soros and him being the most powerful man in the world and guess what? There was some posts about George Soros here on the forums. The question for me how does anyone believe this guy? Beck is a good example of where not to look for insight.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Sun, Nov 21, 2010, at 11:42 PM

Many of us have heard of the Koch brothers and how they help fund the fringe right and the Tea party movement, but not many know about the industries they own and why exactly they funded this movement.

Here is a sight that gives some facts about Koch industries and some details about why they are funding such groups. The Koch industries are one of the major polluters in this country and have gave around 50 million dollars to fund anti-climate science organizations. They have also been found guilty of covering up enviromental violations in Texas. No wonder the U.S. second biggest private company want less government regulation, because they have been breaking the law and have had to pay for it.

http://kochindustriesfacts.com/

-- Posted by cheesehead on Sun, Nov 21, 2010, at 11:30 PM

I've never heard anyone declare that we are post racial until right now. America is not the worst country in the world but America is people and people make mistakes. If our elected officials have violated human rights then as the American people we need to do something about it.

We cannot regard this as acceptable and those who participated need to be prosecuted.

That's what we expect everyone else to do isn't it? Isn't the America that we all love and respect the one that can avoid cruelty even in the most dire of circumstances? That's the America that I love.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Nov 21, 2010, at 9:34 PM

nanadot: Who exactly declared that America has reached greatness and end of story? Who said that America is all of a sudden perfect and that no more change is needed? LOL Only the people who declared that since Obama was elected that America was suddenly 'post-racial'

So according to you then, America is the worst nation in the world today and that we should just bow down to the third world nations and nations like China and Russia with HORRIBLE human rights records (Who by the way happen to be sitting on UN human rights panels investigating the US?)

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Nov 21, 2010, at 7:49 PM

Cheesehead... again? Taking the path of the liberal democrats like Pelosi? dont like what I said so you try to say it was racist? LOL Nice but sad try.

I never took a shot at any minority. I only pointed out that white people were slaves, black people were slaves and muslims were slaves and people of all races have been slaves. AND the whole aspect of slavery that is forgotten (Convinently) is that slavery of black people was STARTED by African nations selling their own people and even after the white nations in Europe and America started to gradually view slavery as bad, the African nations continued to sell their own people.

No one is diminishing what slaves went through. I was responding to nanadot claiming that there were not white slaves. History is clear.

Nanadot also seems to claim that America is a horrible nation and finds ways to diminish the great things that this nation has done. ONE thing was to END slavery even though it was a gradual development that was fought tooth and nail by some people. BUT the point is that the USA was NOT the only nation that had slaves and it was common practice world wide and propagated by the AFRICAN nations who continued to sell and trade their own people and those from other tribes that they might have fought and captured.

The revisionist liberals want to claim that it was evil old America that started and continued Slavery and that ONLy America and White nations were to blame. Sort of like saying America was evil for its Imperialism actions during its short history, when in fact had we not done this our nation would not have had the ability to keep up with the powers that were in the world during that time. This does not make the horrors that slaves endured any less horrible or any less wrong.

Most nations in the world up until the United States of America rebelled against Britain were oppressive empires and monarchies that lived off of the serfs and slaves and common folks and the people had no represenation and were at the whim of the rulers and their military. What makes America great is the mindset that allowed us to develop a Constitution that protects natural rights of all humans granting each person freedoms and liberties, although the liberals are trying to take away more and more of those rights and liberties.

So Cheesehead.. Try again to find some REAL basis to throw accusations at me for attacking minorities... lol

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Nov 21, 2010, at 7:45 PM

"By the way, any others that posted back then, that are still alive, give us a shout out. Otherwise, please don't. ;)"

Haha, Oklahoma. That's like the time I received an email that said to let the sender know if I didn't get it.

-- Posted by AnneD on Sun, Nov 21, 2010, at 12:31 PM

Jo were you one of the folks that posted way back at the start of the Iraq war, on the old MDN guest book?

I posted then as Old Timer if my recall was correct. I argued against it, with Bill arguing for. A fellow named Al, a moderate nice guy as I recall used to post there. There were several others whose names I regret to say I can not recall. Were you one of them?

By the way, any others that posted back then, that are still alive, give us a shout out. Otherwise, please don't. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Nov 21, 2010, at 12:57 AM

xray,

I think there is pattern here with your post as you seem to take shots at minorities and the underprivledged every chance you get.

You may think by stating it is a fact or a politicial argument may give you pass on these statements that are offensive. The fact that they often make statments like yours on conservative outlets doesnt make them unoffensvie. I noticed its not just me that object to your posts.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Sat, Nov 20, 2010, at 11:47 PM

Cheeshead... exactly HOW is stating fact that race riots occur a racist statement? Are we banned from discussing historical content and events? LOL Are we that politically correct?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Nov 20, 2010, at 11:02 PM

On a different note... isnt it grand (sarcasm) how Obama, President with promises of openness and honesty pushed through the biggest Arms deal in US history while Congress was in recess in a secret deal that Congress did not get a chance to debate nor discuss, NOR was the public informed of this deal in advance.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Nov 20, 2010, at 11:00 PM

Nanadot what you are describing is survival of the fitest to the human degree. History is full of horrible events and tragedies that were caused by people of ALL races. America is no different from any other nation through history. While it was a work in progress, the founders came from nations with opressive kings and emperors and they knew that our "great experiement" had to protect natural rights of the citizens in our new nation. But as with any aspect of life, change cannot happen at the snap of a finger or simply because a delcaration of independence and a constitution was written declaring that all men were created equal. History was full of slavery and discrimination at all levels and in all nations around the world since the beginnings of time. Native Americans captured and slaughtered each other and enslaved and sold the captured people into slavery before and after White people were around

This whole concept that Nanadot tries to proclaim that America is evil, more evil than other nations is simply untrue.

You have to view American history in historical context with world wide events and historical events leading up to the start of this GREAT nation. ALL nations were founded and developed on the backs of and with the blood of the poor, the minorities and those captured in battles and the like. Rich people have mistreated people to get ahead, YET they were also some of the most willing to help the poor and donated to charities or created their own. All nations are full of stories of good people and great events and also have bad aspects and bad actors. But as with our news, it is the bad actors that get the fame and publicity and the good are often unknowns and dont get credit.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Nov 20, 2010, at 10:58 PM

dont forget about all those poor white people that were endentured slaves and who were abused and treated poorly and had years and years of service added on once they got to the New World because of the various reasons they were running from the Old World Those were white people as well.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Nov 20, 2010, at 10:49 PM

Good video Nana and Cheese head just pointed out a good example of what this guy is talking about.

They complain about those who call them racists and try to constantly push the same agenda on us. So hopefully the next time they can use their racist propaganda without question, but I'm glad to see people on this forum arent gonna stand for and you should be proud that you are speaking out against this. I want to also note that many know how to make racist statements without using derogatory terms and there is some evidence of this on this board.

-- Posted by miss october on Sat, Nov 20, 2010, at 10:44 PM

Moral opposition to slavery was widespread even before Lincoln, and throughout Europe. On the other hand, opposition to slavery was never particularly strong in Africa itself, where slavery is slowly being eradicated only in our time. One can suspect that slavery would have remained common in most African kingdoms until this day: what crushed slavery in Africa was that all those African kingdoms became colonies of western European countries that (for one reason or another) eventually decided to outlaw slavery. When, in the 1960s, those African colonies regained their independence, numerous cases of slavery resurfaced. And countless African dictators behaved in a way that makes a slave owner look like a saint. Given the evidence that this kind of slavery was practiced by some Africans before it was practiced by some Americans, that it was abolished by all whites and not by some Africans, and that some Africans resumed it the moment they could, why would one keep blaming the USA but never blame, say, Ghana or the Congo?

This is not to say that slavery did not cause racism in America because it did. But it is unfair to say that whites were never slaves because they were. It is unfair to blame America and white European nations for slavery solely because Muslims and more importantly, AFRICANs, who are black, sold their own people in exchange for goods and gold and other items. AND when European nations and America started their evolution to view slavery as inhumane and gradually change their laws and thinking, AFRICAN nations continued to sell their own people into slavery which worked to prolong the slave trade world wide.

It is way to easy and lazy to view things like slavery with rosy revisionist glasses in order to manipulate people and history.

Again, I am not saying that racism was not a horrible problem in USA, nor that racism has ended and because Obama was elected we are not post racial. People like Sharpton and J Jackson wont allow America to become 'post racial' because suddenly they become irrelevant and their message is meaningless and their bank accounts will dry up.

My point is that racism in today's world IS and DOES come from ALL races of people toward all other race of people and that simply because you are minority does not mean that white people as a whole are racist toward you and that minorities cannot be racist towards white people.

A little less complaint and whining, and a little more dogged work and manly striving, would do us more credit than a thousand civil rights bills."

W. E. B. Du Bois quote

"It is the trained, living human soul, cultivated and strengthened by long study and thought, that breathes the real breath of life into boys and girls and makes them human, whether they be black or white, Greek, Russian or American."

brronaldojm W. E. B. Du Bois quote

"There is a class of colored people who make a business of keeping the troubles, the wrongs, and the hardships of the Negro race before the public. Having learned that they are able to make a living out of their troubles, they have grown into the settled habit of advertising their wrongs-partly because they want sympathy and partly because it pays. Some of these people do not want the Negro to lose his grievances, because they do not want to lose their jobs."

-Booker T. Washington

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Nov 20, 2010, at 10:30 PM

NANADOT said: Racism is about POWER, using skin color as a subordinating factor, supported by the majority customs, culture and legal system.

HISTORY LESSON: LOL

Then is this not also true when ANY race uses their skin color to intimidate and attempt to oppress people rights? such as with polling place intimidation by the Black Panters? Or when a race threatens and DO riot because they dont agree with a verdict in a trial? Is that not racism just as any racism a group of white people might conduct?

My point was not to stir the pot, but to make people think. it is way too easy to pull the race card, just look to Pelosi and Reid and the liberal progressives that use it to try to sway opinions and intimidate people into voting their way or to convince the feeble minded public that they cannot succeed because of the racism obstacle so the only solution is to vote Democrat.

Did you know that modern slave trade was predominately between Muslims and African kingdoms. In the year 869 and beyond most of the human slave trade occurred when Muslims traded GOODS for PEOPLE and the African Kingdoms were SELLING their OWN people for those goods. No violent destruction of villages and capturing and raping of helpless africans.

In the Roman Empire, Romans did not discriminate. They captured Black and WHITE people for their slaves. slaves WERE black and white and other skin colors... Popes and Emperors were Black and White as well. Europe, during the middle ages outlawed slavery (not counting legal loopholes to keep slaves) but the African nations continued to trade their own people. Since the white anglo-saxon nations stopped enslaving their own or other white people the only remaining people at that time were black people being sold and traded by their own people. The other capturing of slaves at this time were muslims capturing and enslaving Christians and vice versa. European christian nations continued trading for and capturing black african people for slaves during the mid to late 1400s for sugar plantaions.

Even after Europeans began transporting black slaves to America, most trade was just that: "trade". In most instances, the Europeans did not need to use any force to get those slaves. The slaves were "sold" more or less legally by their (black) owners. Scholars estimate that about 12,000,000 Africans were sold by Africans to Europeans (most of them before 1776, when the USA wasn't yet born) and 17,000,000 were sold to Arabs.

It is also fair to say that, while everybody tolerated it, very few whites practiced slavery: in 1860 there were 385,000 USA citizens who owned slaves, or about 1.4% of the white population (there were 27 million whites in the USA). That percentage was zero in the states that did not allow slavery (only 8 million of the 27 million whites lived in states that allowed slavery). Incidentally, in 1830 about 25% of the free Negro slave masters in South Carolina owned 10 or more slaves: that is a much higher percentage (ten times more) than the number of white slave owners. Thus slave owners were a tiny minority (1.4%) and it was not only whites: it was just about anybody who could, including blacks themselves.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Nov 20, 2010, at 10:15 PM

Good video Nana and Cheese head just pointed out a good example of what this guy is talking about.

They complain about those who call them racists and try to constantly push the same agenda on us. So hopefully the next time they can use their racist propaganda without question, but I'm glad to see people on this forum arent gonna stand for and you should be proud that you are speaking out against this. I want to also note that many know how to make racist statements without using derogatory terms and there is some evidence of this on this board.

-- Posted by miss october on Sat, Nov 20, 2010, at 9:03 PM

I think after all this talk about racism there would still be someone to post racist comments.

Why exactly wasn't this comment deleted "is it racist for the black community to riot and destroy property every time a police officer shoots someone while commiting a crime or while being apprehended"

So in earlier post black people were thugs, and now they are criminals that get mad and riot when one of them get shot while commiting a crime. This is an offensive post and if I was black this would be even more offensive. What is it with some people?

-- Posted by cheesehead on Sat, Nov 20, 2010, at 8:43 PM

yeah I have seen that policy grow and become more subjective for quite sometime mate. Now it seems your even narrower interpretation of that policy reaching the point where it may become too constrictive for my taste.

Well it is still a semi-free Country mate...we both know that. You and I both can pretty much do as we choose to do in this World.

But I bet your further narrowing your interpretation of the MDN's commenting policy will come to be your own undoing.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Nov 20, 2010, at 5:25 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Implementation of our policy has not changed since April.

See www.marshallnews.com/blogs/crump/entry/3...

correction:

in my previous post (which will probably be soon deleted) I said,

"I sure hope this trend to deleting for your highly subjective interpretation of content to be most disconcerning...and I bet I am not alone."

I meant to say this:

I find this trend to deleteing comments for your own, highly subjective, interpretation of content to be most disconcerting...and I bet I am not alone.

I might add...where does it stop? Where is the line? What is the criteria for the line...or have you drawn some arbitrary line?

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Nov 20, 2010, at 5:18 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
I have company policy to follow (see my reply to your previous comment) and I try to implement it fairly and consistently. Whenever someone disagrees with my decisions they are welcome to express their objections. They quite often do.

Uh Eric,

Sticks and Stones mate...sticks and stones.

You have got to be kidding dude. You deleted her for "name calling?"

I see my and my family's many, many, many years of doing business with the MDN coming to an end soon.

I sure hope this trend to deleting for your highly subjective interpretation of content to be most disconcerning...and I bet I am not alone.

Eric tell me mate, do you really think Marshall has enough fires to keep your numbers up on this site?

Print is dead but you still make your money selling advertising space and in this the age of the internet that means having enough "hits" to convince a potential advertising customer that you reach a large enough audiance to justify his or her advertising cost if they choose to advertise with you.

Do you really think you can maintain your current level of advertising if you alienate your commentors?

I bet you can't. I don't think you have enough "action" in Marshall to do that and your nearest competitors would love to see another one bit the dust.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Nov 20, 2010, at 5:10 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Our policy: "The Marshall Democrat-News invites readers to share their views and questions on any issue. Open discussions are often useful and enlightening. Criticism is acceptable as an important part of public conversations, but we expect everyone to treat others with respect. Experience suggests it is best not to post comments while angry. We reserve the right to delete comments that we think include personal attacks, are disrespectful, threatening, obscene or in other ways objectionable. Anyone who repeatedly violates this policy will be banned from participating in our forums."

OKR

Yes I understand your comment better now.

Yes I agree all of us, conservative and liberal alike, should band together to rid our Nation of the high-level corruption of both major Parties.

I have fully supported the "Common Ground" aproach to our Government and our Nation for sometime now.

After all, aren't we all good, freedom loving Americans?

I think we are.

I am with ya mate!

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Nov 20, 2010, at 4:58 PM

I guess this is for Eric! Why would you deleat my last Post?

-- Posted by Jo on Sat, Nov 20, 2010, at 11:27 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Name calling.

so.. I wonder how much of the racism today is real actual people intentionally seeking out someone of differing skin color to discriminate against and how much of today's 'racism' is a combination of residual emotional feelings from historical racial problems and reverse racism where the minorities are prodded by people like Sharpton and Jesse Jackson who keep the ill-educated people stirred up every chance they get because it pads their bank accounts, and organizations like NAACP who entered the political realm to stereotype all white people being racist if they attend a tea party or believe in conservative values.

Dont get me wrong there is racism. BUT it comes from all directions. People, like any animals, tend to group together by likenesses and skin color and culture are the two most noticable factors. So white people hang with white people and black people hang with black people and hispanic hang with hispanic and on and on. But is that racism? Or is it because it makes you feel more comfortable?

Isnt it racism for the black community to riot and destroy property every time a police officer shoots someone while they are committing a crime or while trying to be apprehended? Isnt it racist for hispanics to threaten people who want to fly the US flag simply because it is Cinco de Mayo? In today's world, racism is NOT solely the behavior of some white people it is a real action from ALL races of people, most of it stirred up by the likes of people like the idiots in Topeka Ks and that Westboro Church and Sharpton and J. jackson and other mouth pieces.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Nov 20, 2010, at 10:45 AM

just makes people think that you have nothing of worth to discuss and no logical and rational leg to stand on and lack any merit in this political discussion. LOL

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Nov 20, 2010, at 10:30 AM

glad to see news and cheeshead are still at it... ALL people who are not progressive liberal democrat COMMUNISTS are radical right wing racists. Glad to see the horrible, ill-educated, disingenuous rhetoric that the left is spewing is still alive and well on this message thread.

It is sad that you cannot see that you simply have differing opinions and that does not make one side or the other evil... or wrong.

You make claims about the right all the time YET you cannot see that your statements in this regard is nothing more the the exact same speech and behavior you are hypocritically accusing the right of. AND it is pointless to spew this nonsense over and over and over and over and it adds not ONE intelligent or meaningful point to the debate.

Too bad you cannot see exactly how you are

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Nov 20, 2010, at 10:28 AM

News thanks for pointing out my lack of clarity. What I meant to say was for populists on the left, and right to not get bogged down in their differences. We can, and of course will, continue to struggle in regard to our disparate opinions.

What we must change is to not allow our common ground to be sacrificed to our ire with each other.

Election reform, and changing the ethics of government are common ground wherein we should applaud each others efforts, and take advantage of the strength of our unity on issues.

The corporatists are working constantly to achieve just the opposite. They clearly recognize the danger to them of unity of the people on those issues. Thus they continually roil both sides, whipping up the anger to the point that we can't even agree on the broadest points of rational government.

So, once again, a tip of my hat to the Ohio Tea Party for telling Boehner hands off the ethics committee.

Now if they will join us all in making ethics stronger, we will be getting somewhere.

We must do this, and hopefully more people of all persuasions are beginning to recognize the urgency.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Nov 20, 2010, at 9:27 AM

Oklahoma Reader

Mate I don't understand.

How do you put a moratorium on the most important thing in the World?

How can we not be concerned about the welfare of the American People and especially those who live with horrible poverty and hunger everyday? How do we ignore homelessness? How do we ignore the suffering of so many poor single mothers with hungry children?

I am sure I must not have understood you correctly because I know you are a deeply caring person.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Nov 20, 2010, at 3:46 AM

Nan,

You said, "i guess it sort of matters what skin you walk around in, doesn't it? White people rarely see the inherent racism of white culture - sort of like the goldfish doesn't know it's breathing water until it's on dry land and suffocates."

From all of us in the one race -- the Human Race --- thank you for saying that so well.

Its folks like you who actually make me think maybe we human beings do stand a chance of surviving into the distant future.

You have rekindled my hope in mankind.

Thanks

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Nov 20, 2010, at 3:39 AM

Gonna sign off tonight with a tip of my hat to the Tea Party in Ohio. Seriously.

Johb Boehner (is that Boner, or Bawner?) Is threatening to dismantle the House ethics apparatus. In his home state, the Ohio Tea Party has bellowed back with a resounding NO! Good for them.

What was I saying the other day about populists from the left, and the right declaring a moratorium on social issues, and working together to reform government?

My first "MIX and Fix" award to the Tea Party in Ohio. http://thinkprogress.org/2010/11/18/boeh...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Nov 20, 2010, at 12:55 AM

Joe Scarborough suspended by MSNBC for unreported campaign donations. What goes aroung comes around.

That Fox "News" does not have the same policy is tacit admission that they are an arm of the Republican party. It is reasonable that they would not suspend people for donations to their own organization.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Nov 20, 2010, at 12:34 AM

Oklahoma,

Yea what I meant to say was that Roger Ailes the CEO of Fox news said that NPR was a bunch of Nazis.The apples at Fox dont fall far from the tree and we now understand why Beck still has his job.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Fri, Nov 19, 2010, at 6:27 PM

Cheesehead that was not the point I was trying to make.

No, I did see that some were racist.

The point I was trying to make is that certain posters here claim ALL of the signs are racist.

I was trying to point out that yes some are BUT NOT ALL.

I was also trying to make the point that while some are desensitized to racism, an equal number of us or hypersensitized to it and often see it were it wasn't intended.

-- Posted by inthemiddle on Fri, Nov 19, 2010, at 5:01 PM

Eric,

When you start down that slippery slope of deleting comments with pejoritives -- especially those used so often in the mainstream, conservative media then you may wake up someday and find you are deleting comments for words like "liberal" or "conservative." Will you delete all comments that refer to a klansman as a racist also because they use the word racist?

I think at that point even I would just move on and quit reading your publication...and so would lots of others.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Nov 19, 2010, at 5:00 PM

SOROS claims that NPR is a bunch of NAZIs? That is news.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Nov 19, 2010, at 4:43 PM

For all you Fox news fans its official Glenn Beck has lost his mind. This takes the cake as he claims George Soros is trying to overthrow our government and then he starts playing with puppets.

This guy is extreme even when compared to the other guys at this network and thats hard to do.

Well Jon Stewart not only does a good impression of Beck he makes the point of by Becks on list of criteria he uses to spin that Soros is trying to overthrow the govt that Fox news meets the same exact criteria!

The only reason Beck still has his job is because the Fox ceo Roger Ailes is just as crazy as Beck. Soros claims that NPR is a bunch of Nazis. I guess the apple doesn't fall far from the tree after all.

There are 2 videos on this clip make sure you watch them both because this is not to miss.

http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/art...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Fri, Nov 19, 2010, at 4:33 PM

Well, everybody knows where I stand on that one Eric. The less impingement on free speech the better.

One of the upsides to allowing perjoratives is that it often helps to define the depth, the passion, and the intelligence of the writer. In both positive, and negative ways.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Nov 19, 2010, at 1:59 PM

Zeke,

I'm not sure what your definition of teabagger is, but most of use this term for the Tea Party.

Another definition of teabagger would be-a person who is unaware that they have done or said something foolish, childlike, lame, or incovenient.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Fri, Nov 19, 2010, at 10:51 AM

i am wondering if those who use the term "teabagger" so flippantly and so often know what they are talking about - and if they would mind telling everyone what the term means - and why the editors let such a term pass on such a regular basis ... disgusting.

just wonderin

zeke

-- Posted by zeke on Fri, Nov 19, 2010, at 9:47 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
We could start deleting all comments with perjorative labels, if that's the will of the community. What's everybody think?

I found a comment by our wonderful congressman Roy Blunt making a racist statement about monkeys throwing the ball around in Washington. Also no one has mentioned that Blunt is already trying to get congress to block votes and he is not even seated yet. If Missouri voters like a man that makes racist jokes and wants to continue blocking votes in the Senate well you got your man.

Roy Blunt also has ties to a group CCC which part of its motto is to keep the races from mixing.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/9/19/...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Fri, Nov 19, 2010, at 8:20 AM

inthemiddle

With openly racist statements and close associations with well-known racists, Teabagger leaders such as "Klan Rand" of Kentucky, Michele Bachmann, Glen Beck, Tim Pawlenty, and Sarah Palin leave no doubt in any reasonable person's mind that the Teabagger Party is little more than the Klan with out the sheets.

http://pageonekentucky.com/2010/05/20/ra...

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-2...

http://www.liquida.com/blog-news/1129293...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot/201...

http://www.phillyimc.org/en/node/76770

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Nov 19, 2010, at 3:59 AM

Some Republican Congressmen considering elimination of the Airport wing of the American Gestapo Administration which they helped create:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40242420/ns/...

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Nov 19, 2010, at 2:55 AM

Oh boy, I really went wild with the bad spelling on that last comment lol lol lol...

Obviously I meant "themselves" and "Official."

I appologize for my many, pitiful spelling and typos...lol

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Nov 19, 2010, at 2:45 AM

"Watchdog: Fox News' free publicity for GOP presidential contenders worth $40M"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/fox-n...

I would have a lot more respect for Fox if they would just be honest and call themselfs "The Offical Proganda Wing of the Republican Party."

I mean, its not exactly like that would make any difference to its loyal viewers lol lol lol....

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Nov 19, 2010, at 1:52 AM

In the middle,

Again you are trying to justify the racism by using the talking point which is we are just disagreeing with his policies. Maybe instead of having an open mind most have been desensitized by a constant barrage of racist propaganda. Its not hard to tell the Tea party is fueled by racism, its just hard to get the righties to admit this. Racism in politics is usually offered up in policy and propaganda as its not socially acceptable anymore to just blatently do so.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Fri, Nov 19, 2010, at 12:15 AM

We've got some good news in the fact that Dems plan to vote on tax cuts for the lower and middle only. As we all know the republicans will probably block the tax cuts for those who need it the most, but if they want tax cuts for the rich they may have to wait.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40262323/ns/...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Fri, Nov 19, 2010, at 12:01 AM

Let me get this straight the Dems are still a majority even in the lame duck how are the Repubs getting them to do anything they don't want to do. The Dems have played this game for 2 years now don't you get it?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Nov 18, 2010, at 11:55 PM

Nana D, I went to your site and as I said the first time most were negative, mean, and/or ignorant, but most were not racist from what I could see. YES some of them are racist, but most of the ones I saw on both sites weren't.

Is it possible that I am a Pollyanna and missing somethng - maybe. Is it possible that you are reading something into them that isn't there - maybe. What if they had been presented separately and not in a group labelling them as racist? Studies have shown that people are told that they are going to see something, they are more likely to see it, even when it isn't there. Maybe I'm terribly naive and don't want to see it. I guess that could be true too. Again, is simply critisizing the President's policies enough to qualify as racist? Is "send him back to Kenya racist?" If it is, why? Just because it is in Africa? What if instead it (more accurately too) said "send him back to Indonesia?" Still racist?

Perhaps all people on both sides need to look at the issue with open minds. Are there racists in the Tea Party movement - most-likely, there are racists in ALL parties. Most of my friends, family, and co-workers are liberal democrats and I know they are not racist. However, most of the racists that I have known in my life have been life-long democrats.

Sometime look at the anti-Bush images on the net and you might see that much of the anti-Obama stuff is rather tame in comparrison.

-- Posted by inthemiddle on Thu, Nov 18, 2010, at 11:38 PM

Sad, but true ND.

You would think that the strategy you just mentioned would be a no brainer Cheesehead, and it is.

The problem is that the elected Dems, and the elected Repubs all sleep in the same comfortable bed provided by the corporatists. Maybe, and only maybe, the Dem's pillow is not quite as soft, but there won't even be a pillow fight over that, let alone anybody falling out of that kind of bed.

They are like a dysfunctional couple that screams at each other all day, and then cozy up when the lights are turned out, hoping that the American public is not peeking in the window, nor listening at the door. It is perverse, and I mean each, and every one of the following definitions of perverse. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/p...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Nov 18, 2010, at 11:36 PM

It looks like the Republicans are trying to get the Dems in a lame duck session to approve tax cuts to the rich permanently so they won't have to stand up for those who paid for this election cycle again.

This is their way of getting the money that funded this election back into the hands of those who paid for it. If the Dems would just bring a vote on middle class tax cuts during this lame duck session it would show that the right wing is the party for the rich. The republicans should have to do their own dirty work.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Thu, Nov 18, 2010, at 10:57 PM

They paid for it NanaDot, but that is just the up front costs. As they knew, ultimately we the people will pay for it. We made a huge down payment when we just elected an even more corporately owned congress. Now they will be in an even stronger position to suck our life blood. You get what you pay for.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Nov 18, 2010, at 9:05 PM

cheesehead

Right on Cheese!!!!!!! Right on, Right on, Right on!!!

I guess the teabaggers need to learn that if the shoe fits, wear it!

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Nov 18, 2010, at 7:57 PM

In the middle,

It looks like she wrote "some of the signs seem racist". It also looks like you agreed that some of the signs are racist. Again you didnt care to focus on the racism part which many right wingers do now days, you focused on complaining about Tea party members being called racist. This seems to be exactly the problem most of us are getting at. The right defends racism more often than they critize it or try to prevent racism from happening.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Thu, Nov 18, 2010, at 7:07 PM

By the way Old Owl, I neither called anyone a Nazi, nor Hitler. I believe that distiguishes me from Beck, Limbaugh, and the rest of that ilk, who make a very good living off that name calling sensationalism.

I said that the Republican Party, and Hitler's Germany used the same propaganda. I stand by that until some one can show me that opinion is in error.

As for respecting the collective opinion of the masses I continue to believe they are what they are until I see contrary evidence.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Nov 18, 2010, at 6:02 PM

Old Owl I hope that you do not think that I consider you to be one of the voters that vote impulsively, because they like this one, and don't like that one. However that is how, in my opinion, beyond Supreme Court shenanigans of course, that we got GWB & Co.,LLC for eight years.

As far as comparing campaign tactics of the Nazis, to those of the Republicorp Party it is all there in writing. Read Joseph Goebbels, then read Lee Atwater, and Karl Rove, same tactics, same theories.

As far as what the Democrats have done, I like you am disgusted with much of it. I long for an anti-corporate third party.

I think that if at this point, populist left, and populist right would enjoin, not emphasize their social differences, and stick to political reform as the mandate for which they were elected, they just might kick butt. That is at the least a glimmer of optimism shining from within my skeptical self LOL.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Nov 18, 2010, at 5:53 PM

So I went to the youtube site like miss o suggested. I saw signs that were mean, misspelled, of questionable accuracy, and extremely opinionated but I only saw 3 - 4 signs that were even remotely racist, or am I to understand that any criticism of the president that includes a picture of our President is racist. Perhaps simply disagreeing with his policies is racist? I need someone to tell me why all of the signs are "racist."

Comparing Obama to Hitler is that racist? If it is, then every liberal or Democrat who has ever compared a conservative or Republican to Hitler/Nazis, must also be racist.

-- Posted by inthemiddle on Thu, Nov 18, 2010, at 5:19 PM

"Republican effort to defund NPR fails"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/gop-e...

"Outgoing Republican blasts global warming skepticism"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/outgo...

"Republicans vote unanimously against equal pay for women bill"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/repub...

"House GOP blocks bill to extend jobless benefits "

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40258413/ns/...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Nov 18, 2010, at 4:57 PM

DINO (Democrat in name only) President "Obama to give George Bush, Sr. the presidential Medal of Freedom"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/obama...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Nov 18, 2010, at 4:46 PM

Our newly elected Senator Blunt cast his "no" vote on extending unemployment benefits for 3 months. I'm so proud. Hope all you who voted for him realize what he is going to do for you. Nothing.

-- Posted by politico1206 on Thu, Nov 18, 2010, at 4:41 PM

We all know that the charges laid against Nancy were brought about by the fox right wing network and all the righties bought what they were saying. She was effective as a leader and doesnt deal with hypocrits which is why the leadership on the right wants her out.

-- Posted by miss october on Thu, Nov 18, 2010, at 3:51 PM

On whether the Tea party could be considered racist or not just take a look at some of the signs in this video? I think some seem racist to me, but judge for yourself. This was what all the Tea baggers rallies looked like.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCpwjvVaq...

-- Posted by miss october on Thu, Nov 18, 2010, at 3:47 PM

OKR, I don't buy into your argument that voters are ignorant and that is the only reason why they "bought into" the demonization of Nancy Pelosi. I also question your Nazi reference, but I will leave that for Glen Beck (who I cannot stand). However, for the sake of argument let's assume that you have correctly described the GOP's strategy. The fact remains that the strategy worked terribly well for the GOP! Knowing that to be the case, the Dems continued with their same leadership and down the same failed path. It did not work for the Dems in 2010, but they think it will work in 2012??!!! WOW! The other possible explanation is that President Obama made a whole lot of promises in 2008 that he has not followed up on! He said "elect me and it will not be politics as ususal." Guess what? He was elected and it was "politics as usual."

-- Posted by OldOwl on Thu, Nov 18, 2010, at 3:39 PM

Cheesehead this is for you http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TQBEzaHT...

-- Posted by US male on Thu, Nov 18, 2010, at 3:31 PM

Back in 1958 when I got out of high school jobs were hard come by. I was seventeen years old. I went to Kansas City, and applied for nearly fifty jobs, but didn't get a sniff.

I came back, and hauled hay, bucking bales with my buddies. It was hard work, and fun to work with them, but there were thoughts running through my mind that I knew they would not care to discuss.

I reached out for conversation, as I always had to some degree, by reading. I would in my mind, say as I read, but what about this? What about that? It was a great conversation, and it still is.

Among the books I read that summer was Vance Packard's "The Hidden Persuaders". After reading it my primary response was "holy sh t", what is this going to lead to? Well now I know. I was a skeptic even then, some would say a pessimist, but I don't think so. Nevertheless, I had no idea that we would be manipulated to the degree that we have been. What a world. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vance_Packa...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Nov 18, 2010, at 2:54 PM

And to precisely answer your question as to why Ms. Pelosi's face was on every piece of campaign mail that you recieved, here are the reasons.

It was because the Republicorp knew that their constant barrage of cleverly designed, and corporately financed, campaign of hatred had been successful. They had demonized the woman. They also knew that as they had done so, the ignorant would fly into an irrational emotional response at the picture, and subconsciously the hatred would ooze into the primitive centers of their brains connecting with the unfortunate person pictured next to her.

Rats in a maze can't find an exit when they are distracted, and neither can the majority of people.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Nov 18, 2010, at 2:29 PM

Cheesehead give some specific examples of the tea party being racist and I will listen. You consider disagreement as devisive and racist come on now. You can do better than that stick to the issues instead of calling people you don't know racist.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Nov 18, 2010, at 2:24 PM

Experts say Pelosi is one of the greatest House Speakers. http://www.aolnews.com/politics/article/...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Nov 18, 2010, at 2:16 PM

Old Owl the answer regarding Pelosi is not as simple as you believe.

The Republicorp party is very adroit at swaying the masses. They have taken the mantra "if it worked for Hitler it will work for us".

Among the tactics that are so effective is to find a figure head that they can demonize. Then they attack that person, over, and over, until they have brainwashed the masses to the point their pavlovian response is to parrot exactly the lies, and innuendo intended. If you held a gun to their heads, not one in ten of the slobber when the bell rings crowd, could say precisely, and specifically why they despise Nancy Pelosi.

Those credulous folk would be astounded, and unbelieving if they were informed that conservative analysts of congress are on the record stating that Nancy Pelosi is one of the best, most effective Speakers the House that our nation has ever had. That ain't no "lying lefty trying to trick em" statement though it is how it would be percieved by the "We got our Depends on Tea Party, lets drink it ALL up".

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Nov 18, 2010, at 2:00 PM

For all of you Pelosi lovers out there, explain to me why her face was on just about every piece of campaign mail I got for the last election from the GOP? Also, why was her face on nearly every tv ad I saw? The answer is simple: the voters are fed up with her and a vote for the GOP was a vote against her. Voters hate her guts and took it out on good people like Ike Skelton. NOW, the Dems decide it is a good idea to keep her in a leadership position! Now that's a great 2012 election strategy....for the GOP! Thanks again Nancy!!!

-- Posted by OldOwl on Thu, Nov 18, 2010, at 12:42 PM

Well as most of us know a big portion of the Tea party movement is fueled by racism. The vocal leaders of this movement such as Palin, Beck, and Limbaugh denounce this, but they use every chance they get to be divisive. I watched this video and asked myself. WHAT IF THE TEA PARTY WAS BLACK?

How would Rush, Palin, Beck, and its current supporters talk about this movement? I think they would be labeled a terrorist org or maybe they would want the military to go after them. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be accepted the same way with all their un-american or racist signs would they? Did I mention if some of them were carrying around guns or stomping on some heads?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtH7vH4yR...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Thu, Nov 18, 2010, at 12:18 PM

Did I hear this correctly? Charles Rangle paid $2 million in attorney's fees and was looking at paying another $1 million for them to continue. First question: how does an honest congressman come up with $2 million to pay to his attorneys? Second question: Why would an honest congressman pay $2 million or $3 million to keep his position if the position was not worth that amount or more? Third question: While everyone seems to agree that DC is full of crooks, the crooks are the OTHER senators and reps, and not their own. Rangle will continue to be elected in his District, no matter how badly things get for him. It will be an interesting 2 years!

-- Posted by OldOwl on Thu, Nov 18, 2010, at 12:15 PM

Cheesehead I don't think any of them do what they are elected to do. They do what they want or what the money tells them to do to heck with the voters. We are just pawns in their game you win a few lose a few.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Nov 18, 2010, at 11:49 AM

Amen Cheesehead. Whoops, considering words over context maybe I should have reserved Amen for the religion blog. It is all so confusing. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Nov 18, 2010, at 11:02 AM

Lets have an adult conversation as the republicans might say, but then do nothing. Like nanadot said their number one issue was stopping Obama. You right wingers should speak out against your own leadership first because they knew single payer or public option would be liked by America if it got passed and then the Dems would get credit for it and get re-elected. So Boehner and McConnel, Steele and others thought screw the American people not letting the Dems get re-elected is are #1 priority. Obama thought well if I propose more centrist ideas this will help and boy he was wrong. The Republican leadership has put its party over the American People, and with that so did the blue dog democrats along with Obama. It was Pelosi and progressives in congress that have been the only members in congress that have tried to do what they got elected to do.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Thu, Nov 18, 2010, at 10:50 AM

I was trying to think of even just one bill that was proposed by the far left, passed by Congress, signed by a President and made into law in the last 40 years.

I could not think of any.

We have proposed things (like full socialized medicine) but not in over 40 years has Congress seriously considered any of our proposals.

So tell me again how and why would anyone be angry at us?

Maybe folks should consider going left instead of right -- after all we have been going right for a very long time and you can see where that has gotten us.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Nov 18, 2010, at 12:24 AM

rr,

When the Republican leadership comes up with some ideas to lower the cost of health care the Dems will listen. If those on the right wouldnt have fought against the public option or single payer we would have started the process of lowering health care costs. Before this reform insurance costs were rising 5% every year and not many had 5% increases in their wages. So if you do the math more and more were still dropping their insurance. Only by cutting out the middle man(insurance compainies) and finding a way to limit health care cost will be the only way to actually make progress. Dont we all want cheaper health care? We should look for solutions to go forward not backwards.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Wed, Nov 17, 2010, at 11:46 PM

Who's that tapping on the bathroom floor?

Shhh, we better not open up that door.

What really got the right wing vexed,

was Clinton lying, when he got sexed.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Nov 17, 2010, at 11:19 PM

If Range is the only one singled out, it stinks.If the man did what they say he did ,he needs to go,and now! But don't stop with him! Keep searching ,you won't run out of suspects! Clean them all out and get them out of Politics for good! As far as Pelosi i don't see anyone left to replace her shes as good as they have,in my opinion! She hasen't been a complete failure. Do something with the Blue Dogs.Personally they seem like Conservatives,get out of the **** Party! I Want a Social Democratic Party!Its the only thing that sound fair to me. Too hell with the far left the far right ,the middle! There is no in between, to me ,one way or the other, or start there own Party,it may help putting these confused People in there **** place! I hate a confused a-- h---s !!! Is you is, or is you ain't?? The way the song go's! Lead Follow or or get the Hell out of the way! I would love to be in the group that comes to the Whitehouse and crawls up you junk and carrie you all out of there! I'm disgusted with all these Meatballs! Good nite all!

-- Posted by Jo on Wed, Nov 17, 2010, at 11:06 PM

Come to think of it rr3 it is the right that I have never seen condemn one of there own congressmen on these blogs, no matter how crooked.

You must have been thinking of your own faction when you were accusing the left.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Nov 17, 2010, at 11:04 PM

rr3 this is one of those times when you must feel good to have been wrong. This just in, Rangel was convicted on twelve of the thirteen charges against him. I say, get the old sleaze bag outa there. http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/1...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Nov 17, 2010, at 10:58 PM

rr3yv0

You couldn't be more wrong mate.

1.) I came out against Pelosi the day she said impeachment of Bush and Cheney were off the table -- way back in 2006. I don't care at all for her political positions which I see as leaning conservative. In addition, I think she is weak and not willing to stand up to the conservatives.

2.) I came out against the Democrat's Health Care Bill the moment they dropped the single payer option. I only support socialized medicine -- period.

3.) I could not care less for Rangle. I think he probably violated ethics rules and should pay the price. Apparently his constituents do not agree with me because they keep re-electing him.

4.) I am not a Democrat at all. I am an independent voter and I only vote for Democrats when there are no other acceptable, viable choices such as Green Party candidates.

However, I sure don't support right-wing wacko's or their political positions. Ideas such as doing away with Social Security, cutting domestic spending during a deflationary period, and engaging in empire building are not the answers me and millions of other voters want. Nor do I support their racism or their suggestion that we should be willing to trade away our freedoms for security. I believe doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the very definition of insanity.

We the People need a New Deal -- not the same old Party that caused most of the problems to begin with.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Nov 17, 2010, at 9:53 PM

Hey guys I don't want to rain on your parade, but I am one populist that believes flush em all if they are crooks. It doesn't matter to me if they are Demeocrats, or Republicans.

I for one would like to see a strong populist third party in place. It could be a big enough tent to cover those on the left, and the right willing to fight the corporate strangle hold on America.

If Rangel screwed the people he needs to go.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Nov 17, 2010, at 9:37 PM

That's ok oldowl don't let news and nan beat you down they like Nancy not sure why but ok.

They are the same one's that hasn't mentioned Rangel and I think his 11 of 13 indictments that he will probably never get punished for.

They are the same one's that praise Obamacare while health insurance rates raise 20-50% and people are dropping their insurance because they can't afford it.

Let's not mention continued high unemployment.

I didn't hear any specific reason that they like Nancy but they will give you plenty why they hate "teabaggers". So Oldowl don't let them get you down they like to gang up on one and not really address the issue.

You know they will probably come back and blame Bush or those evil Repubs. Let's not talk about what the current regime has done or NOT DONE!

Just calling them like I see them.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Nov 17, 2010, at 8:53 PM

Excellent response Nan!!

I wonder if that oldowl could tell us just what legislation the Teabaggers have accomplished this last session? None...that is the correct answer and that is what they will accomplish in the next -- none.

What staunch Teabag/neocons like the oldowl will soon be learning is that the only reason they won the House at all is because the Dems and those of us on the left sat this election out because we are unhappy with the President's DINO behavior.

But 2012 will be a whole new ballgame and my money is on Hillary Clinton. That political powehouse will steam-roll the wild-eyed, crazy Republicans and bring out a whole lot of Democrats to vote. The Democrats won't be sitting that one out.

Your crazies in the House have 2 years oldowl...then they are gone and We the People will have a real Democrat in the Whitehouse and a big majority in the Senate and House.

Get used to the idea...

lol lol lol lol

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Nov 17, 2010, at 8:30 PM

OldOwl

I think most Americans will be very anxious to toss those do-nothing-good, wild eyed, crazy, neocon, teabagger, Republicans out on their butts in 2012...and just wait till you see who the Dems will be running for President in 2012..lol lol lol...see ya at the voting both! lol lol lol....

That is assuming of course that there still is a United States in 2012 after the Teabaggers are finished with it...

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Nov 17, 2010, at 6:00 PM

Thank you to the Dems for re-electing Nancy Pelosi as your leader! If you think the 2010 elections very well for the GOP, just wait until 2012! Thanks again Nancy, the GOP just loves you!

-- Posted by OldOwl on Wed, Nov 17, 2010, at 4:27 PM

rr

That was an interesting blog.

I have never liked recess appointments. I know they are Constitutional, but it just seems that there is just too much room for abuse by Presidents of both major parties.

I look forward to reading more about the Senate's questioning of this nominee, and I am glad that they finally will have that opportunity.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Nov 17, 2010, at 7:04 AM

Always money for bullets, never money for bed pans.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Nov 17, 2010, at 6:40 AM

Donald Berwick - Rationer-In-Chief of ObamaCare

http://www.redstate.com/brian_d/2010/11/...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Nov 17, 2010, at 6:37 AM

Oops!

Sorry for all the typos lol...again...

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Nov 17, 2010, at 5:53 AM

cheesehead

I would vote for you in a heartbeat.

If you do decide to run, I would be happy to help to do all I could to get you elected.

We need folks like you up thee in Washington, and I think you would be a real asset to your chosen constinuency and all freedom-minded Americans.

...and thanks for your comment regarding the rampant racism. There are lots of folks out there that want to see the Teabag/Klan racism stopped in its tracks, but I wish more people would have to courage to stand up to racism with the same courage you show us.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Nov 17, 2010, at 3:05 AM

Nan

Yes of course you are absolutely correct.

I just wanted to avoid having to go back that far in history lol.

Thanks for expanding on it Nan.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Nov 17, 2010, at 2:49 AM

Splendid ND.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Nov 17, 2010, at 2:36 AM

News,

I couldn't say it any better. Those on the far right have racism a staple of their political agenda. In fact they made it so commom that those that are moderates now dont take any offense to this. It has moved us backward not forward. I think some forget that in the future the minority will be us. Then them being in the minority and knowing how that feel they would never treat us like we do them. Hey news I'm considering running for the house in 2012 you would make a gret aide if this comes about.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Wed, Nov 17, 2010, at 12:01 AM

Philemon

Yes that is all the 14 points refer to -- the common characteristics of the various fascist nations such as NAZI Germany, Facsist Italy, Pinochet Chili, Franco Spain, Vichy France, et al.

These Characteristics are not the type we would expect to find in a free and open democracy such as ours yet there they are -- we have all 14 characteristics. I think that clearly indicates our democratic republic is in serious trouble. You may not think so. However, millions of other Americans, including this American, do think so.

Our Nation has been going in the wrong direction since Bush was appointed by the Conservative Justices of the Supreme Court to the office of President (this despite the fact that we still don't exactly know for sure who won in Florida and this despite the fact that Vice President Gore had over half a million more uncontested votes for him Nation-wide than did Bush). As I recall you were a Bush supporter having voted for him twice, by the way, according to a previous comment you posted, and frankly I think that makes it very clear which side of the political aisle you are on -- and its not anywhere near the center. I always keep that in mind when I read your comments too mate. Like me, you are not exactly objective friend, but at least I admit which side of the political aisle I am on and why I am on that side.

We now see the results of that Presidency with an economy on the verge of collapse, unemployment at near Great Depression levels, 2 unnecessary occupations in Nations that were never a direct military threat to the United States, over 1 million innocent Iraqi civillians killed by Americans with American weapons (55% of who the current Iraqi Government estimates to be women and children), torture now an accepted norm amongst conservative Americans, defendants being detained indefinately without trial and often without access to an attorney and no chance to ask a judge why they are being held, anti-semitism on the rise (yes Arabs are semite also), anti-Muslim discrimination on the rise, overt racism in the Teaparty -- including some who are now on their way to Congress such as Klan Rand of Kentucky, -- and now a law already struck down by the Federal Court system before it could ever take effect because it unconstitutionally singles out hispanics, and the list goes on and on.

Perhaps if each of these was an isolated event it would not be so frightening, but taken together they indicate a direction that is anything but the free and open democratic society many would like to believe we still are.

Its time We the People take control of matters and boot out the Teabags and other ultra-right-wing crazy conservatives and their DINO co-conspirators and take back our Nation.

Perhaps then we can finally see progress towards a better, more free and open society in our Nation where the rights of all Americans are protected and enforced, and maybe then we won't be the laughing stock of the World...and trust me mate, they are laughing at us...I should know...I actually travel overseas and live overseas.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Nov 16, 2010, at 10:49 PM

Is there just a touch of hypocrisy by the right wingers these days or do they live by it? This new republican congressman is complaining he has to wait to long for his government subsidized health care plan to kick in. Andy Harris is one of the congressmen who opposes govt run health care, but he can't wait to get his new plan. This guy is a doctor and wants his plan quickly, yet he could afford any plan he wants. Isnt it hypocrisy for these republicans to want good health care coverage, but want to keep it from millions of Americans?

http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/art...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Nov 16, 2010, at 9:52 PM

Also, here's a link about the 14 points. It is a right wing source and there is quite a bit of the article that I don't agree with, but it does give a pretty good assesment of the 14 points. My first thought when I read them was that many of them applied to our country more during WWII than today, and many apply less every day.

http://www.arguewitheveryone.com/general...

I also remember reading another article the last time you posted those 14 points that I can't find now that contained an interview with Britt. In it, he even said that simply meeting the 14 points didn't didn't make a country fascist. In fact, many countries meet those criteria that aren't fascist. He was simply stating that in the seven fascist regimes that he did study, ALL 14 were present.

-- Posted by Philemon on Tue, Nov 16, 2010, at 9:39 PM

News,

I think I asked this before or at least somebody did, but exactly what part of that law is racist to you? The law shouldn't be necessary since it is mostly a duplicate of the Federal law, but with the Federal law not being enforced it became necessary. I've lived in Arizona before. While there, some of my best friends including a girlfriend and mys son's babysitter were all of Mexican descent, but were here legally. They all even knew there was an extreme problem. I lived in a town only slightly larger than Marshall. It had a huge gang problem, whose members were alost all illegals.

I seem to remember you telling us before how strict the Australian immigration laws are and how they are enforced. So does this mean Australia is a racist country? I don't think so.

Also, to reiterate, I said at the bottom of that last post that the examples were silly. That was my point. Don't judge a book by its cover and don't condemn everyone who supports something just because a few bad people agree with it.

-- Posted by Philemon on Tue, Nov 16, 2010, at 9:13 PM

DINO (Democrat in name only) President Obama "envoy secretly promised to keep troops in Iraq after 2011, Iraqi intelligence official says":

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/revea...

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Nov 16, 2010, at 6:38 PM

I guess its just a coincidence that so many of the policies and legislation we see coming from the Teabags are also supported by such groups as the Klan and the Neo-Nazis.

But then again...maybe its no coincidence at all...

"The 14 Characteristics of Fascism"

by Dr. Lawrence Britt,

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasc...

http://www.ellensplace.net/fascism.html

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Nov 16, 2010, at 5:45 PM

Philemon

There is nothing "socialist" about the NAZIs. They are no more socialist than North Korea is a "Democratic Republic."

I think its pretty commonly accepted that we should not judge a book by its cover. The same thing applies to the names of Political Parties and Nations...

As to my comment, I was referring to the unConsitutional law passed by the Arizona legislature which is racist based and an insult to every freedom loving American...like you and me.

Its time We the People get off our duffs and take back our Nation from the Teabags. We the People demand the return of freedom to our nation and an end to Teabag/conservative oppression of minorities.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Nov 16, 2010, at 5:04 PM

First they came for the smaller companies, and I did not speak out.

Then they came for the union members, and I did not speak out,

Then they came for the office workers, and I did not speak out.

Then they came for government workers, and I did not speak out.

Then they came for the midsize companies, and I did not speak out.

Then they came for the family farms, and I did not speak out.

Now, they come for my retirement security.......HELP!

HELLO? HELLOOO? Hello???

Get out of that easy chair Gray Panthers. Stop the Corporatocracy!

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Nov 16, 2010, at 3:34 PM

News,

Your interpretation that it "speaks volumes" reminds me of your comments on the religious blog about JHH's opinions on prophesy. Just because some bad people support the same thing as some good people, it doesn't make the thing bad. Some of those Neo Nazis probably had a chocolate donut just like the tasty one I ate this morning. By your logic, eating that donut would make me a racist. Worse yet, since they are National Socialists, that must "speak volumes" about all Socialists, using the same logic.

Just to be sure we are on the same page, yes, I know those examples were silly. That was my point.

-- Posted by Philemon on Tue, Nov 16, 2010, at 7:42 AM

"Neo-Nazis rally in Phoenix to support Arizona's immigration law"

with video

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/neona...

Well this speaks volumes about the racist "immigration" law passed in Arizona this year.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Nov 15, 2010, at 4:58 PM

A Message to America from Survivers of the 9/11 Attack:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHIj9wzbY...

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Nov 14, 2010, at 8:41 PM

OKR

Ditto mate!

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Nov 14, 2010, at 3:49 PM

rr3yv0

Thanks rr.

Well rr like I said you do make some good points sometimes. There are times when I will read something you say and I think, "well he is right, it is like that."

Nobody is right all the time and no one is wrong all the time. Issues change, events happen, but no matter what those events and issues are, there are not many things I admire more that a person who stands by their convictions and has the courage to do so even when the odds seem against doing so. In short, courage and convictions are 2 qualities which I admire --- and you have plenty of both.

I even like reading the Rush quotes lol...even though I disagree with Rush on most things.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Nov 14, 2010, at 3:49 PM

Thank you News, for your kind, and encouraging remarks. Also thank you for your insights posted regularly on several of the blogs. You are one of my all time favorites.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Nov 14, 2010, at 1:05 PM

The thought occurred to me that if brains were bucks, half of our congress would spend all their time running around looking for a handout. Then I thought, wait a minute, almost all already do that.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/14/opinio...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Nov 14, 2010, at 12:57 PM

Thank you news for the comments even though we don't agree. I think we can discuss issues without being dumb or immoral just because we disagree. Don't get me wrong I don't take any of this personally and I have been trying to refrain from the name calling and stick to the issues. Happy posting mate!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Nov 14, 2010, at 9:15 AM

OKR

That comment was hillareous.

I laughed for what must have been 10 minutes before I could stop and write this response.

I miss Raytown Bill and 3rd Child.

3rd Child had no bones about being nuts lol. He or she (I never could figure out which 3rd Child was) really meant conservative crazy business, and I think its fair to say 3rd Child was indeed one of the original Teabagger/birthers. I still can't drink a cup of water with out wondering if 3rd Child might have been right about the floridated water. Yeah...I miss that one for sure.

But actually, I think there are a lot more folks out there that read this forum than actually comment here.

Take my Dad for example.

Back before the internet, my Pop always subscribed to the Marshall Democrat -- even by mail and he may still have a subscription as far as I know. I really should ask him I guess...maybe when I give him and Mom the weekly call tomorrow. Anyway, Dad is a dedicated reader of the MDN and a dedicated reader of these forums here in the MDN -- as well as the news portion and the obituaries (he likes to keep up with who has died that he knows).

Dad and I always discuss the many commentors that post here and their comments. Oh by the way OKR, I don't know if I ever told you or not, but my Dad has great regard for your comments and your opinion, and he thinks you must be a darn fine person. He has said as much many times. Its kind of funny because he knows the forum names of everyone who posts here -- not their real names of course -- but he reads this forum daily and knows who is conservative, middle of the road, and liberal. He has also told me he enjoys reading JHH and rr's comments too. He is a regular reader of these forums.

And I don't think Dad is alone.

There are a lot of folks who read this forum that we never hear from and probably never will. However, I am glad they are out there, and I am glad they take an interest in the views of the folks that do comment here. Even here in Australia there are a lot of folks who read these forums including most of my wifes family. We often yuk yuk it up about some of the funnier comments, and the MDN Speak Out forums are a real hit with them. I have encouraged some of them to comment here. My wife does comment here. I won't tell you her online name because she does not want me to reveal that, but she does comment here once in a while. She feels she has a stake in America since she is married to an American, has a bunch of relatives in America -- including her step-children who are also American -- and because she genuinely loves America almost as much as I do.

Yeah I miss Raytown Bill, 3rd Child, and some of the others and yeah it would be great to hear from them again. However, I am darn glad for the conservatives who refuse to give up and continue to comment. Guys like JHH and rr have guts and I respect that. Those fellows don't give up and I am glad they don't. Frankly, even though I may disagree with them on almost every issue, I still like hearing their opinions and sometimes I even think they make darn good points. Can you imagine how boring it would be if we all agreed all of the time? Even I might stop commenting if that happened...ok maybe I wouldn't lol...but again, I am very happy to hear their points of view also.

So don't forlorn my friend. There is a silent majority out there and they are reading these forums, and I invite them to please join in and be heard.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Nov 14, 2010, at 3:13 AM

"Nazis Were Given 'Safe Haven' in U.S., Report Says"

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/14/us/14n...

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/repor...

JHH,

You may want to have a look at this.

This report plus the others listed (with direct links to the original reports) kinda makes it look like you were recently engaged in a little "pot calling the kettle black" behavior.

Didn't "divergent thinker" point out the fact that the USA was much more engaged in the kind of behavior that you accused only OTHER countries of doing?

Yeah...it seems he or she was correct.

...and there is the proof.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Nov 14, 2010, at 1:30 AM

Sometimes I become reflective, especially since a recent event in my life. Tonight my reflections included the following.

So, If all you banned posters are still out there, looking through a big window at this wonderful party (the politics blog) in which you never had a chance to participate, hello out there. I raise my glass of vitriol to the each of you.

Some of you may never take even a peek.

I am thinking that Raytown Bill may be too busy with Tea Party activities to even remember that he wasted his time arguing with half baked liberals who are forever wrong about everything.

Perhaps Third Child does not even furtively click on the web site because he might be added to a list. One that would allow THEM to track him down, and remove him to another planet, or at least some earthbound isolation, where all that become aware of THE PLAN are sequestered.

And then there was the furtive fellow (or was it a woman?) of multiple identities, Secret Agent something something, and...darned if I haven't forgotten all those names. I am sorry. I know that the attention you drew to yourself was extremely important to you, and if you are reading this it must fill you with chagrin that I have forgotten. I so hope that many, many others do remember.

What was I saying? Oh yes, you would all love this new political blog, where you can run on to unfettered lengths, and where seldom is heard, but a discouraging word. Sorry you can't come in. I think that there may be room for you now.

Before taking the preceding seriously please be aware of potential side effects. It may contain sarcasm, satire, regret, and in the interest of full disclosure, it may be contaminated by a small portion of tongue in cheek.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Nov 14, 2010, at 1:25 AM

Signed it. Monkey see, mokey do. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Nov 14, 2010, at 12:25 AM

Lest we forget ladies, and gentlemen, I give you William Rivers Pitt. http://www.truth-out.org/a-small-fractio...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Nov 14, 2010, at 12:21 AM

cheesehead

Thanks for posting the link to the petition.

I signed it right away and I urge all the readers of this forum to do the same.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Nov 14, 2010, at 12:20 AM

news,

I'm glad to be part of the team. If anybody is tired of all the hate and lies coming out of the Fox political action commitee and Glenn Beck I will post a link to petition which goes to sponsors of Glenn "The world is coming to an end" Beck show to drop their support of his hate filled shows.

http://mediamatters.org/action/dropfox/

-- Posted by cheesehead on Sun, Nov 14, 2010, at 12:12 AM

We are the modern equivalent of the Weimar Republic? I hope not, that didn't last very long. :) http://www.youtube.com/rabbletv#p/a/u/0/...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Nov 14, 2010, at 12:09 AM

Peter King: George Bush right on waterboarding

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/111...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Nov 13, 2010, at 10:09 PM

Bill Clinton praises Bush book

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/111...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Nov 13, 2010, at 10:04 PM

Go team rah rah!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Nov 13, 2010, at 9:15 PM

Oh and cheesehead,

I sure am happy you are participating in the discussions in this forum.

Its darn nice to have you on the team mate.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Nov 13, 2010, at 8:59 PM

"[DINO (Democrat In Name Only)] President Obama may deny KSM a trial: report"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/obama...

Well there goes a defendant's right to a trial and habeas corpus rights...

So will we be extending this policy to all criminal defendants next?

Perhaps one of your friends or relatives will be accused of something and denied a trial and inprisoned indefinately next...or worse yet, it may you who is denied a trial next.

...and no one is even complaining lol lol lol...

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Nov 13, 2010, at 7:33 PM

"Britain's new Conservative government is effectively handing over control of the country's health policies to multinational food and drink manufacturers and fast-food retailers, says a report in the British press."

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/mcdon...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/...

Oh I bet that is going over real well in the UK...not! lol.

I don't think the conservatives are too popular in England these days lol lol lol...

...but just wait till we see what our crazy conservatives have in store for us lol lol lol....

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Nov 13, 2010, at 6:40 PM

"Revealed: Texas officials [allegedly] covered up dangerously radioactive tap water for years"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/texas...

http://www.khou.com/home/I-Team-How-safe...

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Nov 13, 2010, at 7:21 AM

OKR,

That link was great mate. Thanks!

By the way, I read today that it turns out Bush committed mulitple acts of plagiarism in his new book.

"Report: Bush lifted quotes for his memoir"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40159188/ns/...

Why am I not surprised?

The man has no ethics at all.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Nov 13, 2010, at 3:16 AM

I don't care about Obama's race.

I'm glad he didn't stay "in his place".

The skinny guy's big disgrace?

They all kick sand in his face.

It's a fight he'll never win,

saying "please don't do that again".

Please just once, roar "No More",

and knock their butts to the floor.

Sometimes we can't all get along.

Sometimes you fight if you're strong.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Nov 13, 2010, at 1:07 AM

Grim, and grimmer. Will we ever learn that just passing services back, and forth will not grow the economy? http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/11/11/10...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Nov 13, 2010, at 12:15 AM

"Protesters bomb police station with cart full of burning cannabis: report"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/prote...

I have read and re-read this article and I still can't figure out what the protesters thought this criminal act would accomplish. It just doesn't make any sense.

The place to change the law is in Parliament -- not by attacking the police. The police don't make the laws. Their job is to enforce the laws Parliament passes. This act on the part of the protesters was nothing more than a senseless attack on the very people who protect them from the bad guys. It makes no sense at all.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Nov 12, 2010, at 8:27 PM

"Texas executed man in 2000 based on someone else's DNA, test reveals"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/texas...

http://www.texasobserver.org/

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Nov 12, 2010, at 7:11 PM

Change your station. No more Rush.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Nov 12, 2010, at 7:06 PM

rr,

I think we would all agreebthat none of what Rush says is true. It even looks like most of your right wing friends dont believe in what he says, but yet he is your god.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Fri, Nov 12, 2010, at 5:36 PM

"The country was never set up to have one political party use the public trough as significantly as the Democrat Party has to cement itself in permanent power. That's not what this country was founded to do." -Rush

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Nov 12, 2010, at 4:52 PM

Hu Jintao and Angela Merkel and the leaders of South Korea told Obama to pound sand at this G20 summit. They basically said, 'Look, Obama, if you want to destroy the US economy, go ahead, we'll deal with that, but you're not gonna destroy ours.'" -Rush

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Nov 12, 2010, at 4:51 PM

rr3yvo,

Fair enough. Are you willing to have all of your hairs pulled out one at a time? Most torture probably does not result in death, at least not immediately. That's what makes it torture.

Are you willing to subject yourself to various forms of alleged torture so you can report back to us as to which qualifies as actual torture?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Nov 12, 2010, at 12:19 PM

Wtf that would be like asking if you want someone to pull all your hair out one hair at a time it may not kill you but it would be mighty uncomfortable.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Nov 12, 2010, at 12:05 PM

rr3yvo

Are you willing to be waterboarded?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Nov 12, 2010, at 10:55 AM

See cheesehead I told you.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Nov 12, 2010, at 8:05 AM

That is a very good question WTF.

Conservative radio hack, Madcow in Chicago, didn't think waterboarding was torture...until he volunteered for it in an attempt to prove its not torture. It wasn't long before he was leaping off the board and swearing that waterboarding is definately torture.

I guess its easy for torture deniers to sit back and claim that waterboarding is harmless...until its them on that waterboard then they start singing a completely different tune.

I guess I would have more respect for them if they would just admit that they like the idea of torturing prisoners. Well then again, I have no respect for gestopo tactics or its supporters.

One thing I would like to know from torture supporters is do they really think Jesus would approve of waterboarding and other tortures and further, what does their religion teach them the price for supporting the torture of people is? Is heaven a place where torturers and torture supports go?...or do they go to that other unearthly place down below?

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Nov 12, 2010, at 7:38 AM

"Holocaust survivors slam Beck's 'monstrous' Soros claim"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/holoc...

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Nov 12, 2010, at 7:11 AM

Anybody here willing to be waterboarded?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Nov 12, 2010, at 6:38 AM

Its never to late to undo the wrong that's been done.

But i have always thought some of German war Criminals took a very long time to apprehend,but they got most of them! They paid ,and i'm sure it took a lot of strain off the People that survived the holocaust. The ones that watch their children die of starvation,their mothers and Fathers taken to the gas chambers,hung, burned alive,beat to death. To watch something like that, without losing their mind, and not want retribution regardless of how long it takes! I think if there is a regime,or individual that commits a slaughter,should be tract until they are either Dead or caught,and slaughtered themselves regardless of how long it takes! I see no difference from that and what Bush & Company did! The iraqi People,and above all our own Men & Women. The People that sit back and let them excuse these Maniacs for this. Should be tried with them ,because they are complicit when they do that!! That P----- me off too no end! and hopelessness. I've lost respect for the entire Governments Judicial system! Well i'm depressed so bed time for me! Goodnight all!

-- Posted by Jo on Thu, Nov 11, 2010, at 10:43 PM

rr

I can't realy say if waterboarding is torture or not, but I do believe we have prosecuted in the past for this. If it is classified as such it sounds like he admitted his guilt.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Thu, Nov 11, 2010, at 10:04 PM

rr3yv0

Their are certainly plenty of conservatives who think waterboarding is torture.

http://bobmccarty.com/2009/05/22/caught-...

http://www.tmz.com/2009/05/23/radio-host...

"Pelley asked him [Senator McCain] about American interrogation methods today. Asked if water boarding is torture, McCain said, "Sure. Yes. Without a doubt."

"So the United States has been torturing POWs?" Pelley asked.

"Yes. Scott, we prosecuted Japanese war criminals after World War II.

And one of the charges brought against them, for which they were convicted, was that they water-boarded Americans," McCain said."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/03/0...

http://www.lp.org/poll/is-waterboarding-...

http://conservativehome.blogs.com/platfo...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Nov 11, 2010, at 9:42 PM

But cheesehead the libs don't like waterboarding now now that's torture you know!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Nov 11, 2010, at 9:24 PM

I'm not really sure that money should be spent on putting Bush on trial he has already cost this country lots of money and jobs. He probably deserves to be punished for his war crimes don't get me wrong, but it just seems like a little late for that. You know I would rather see him and Cheney waterboarded for a couple of days just to see what we could get out of him! Go ahead and put Glenn Beck and Limbaugh with them we would have a hit reality show.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Thu, Nov 11, 2010, at 9:17 PM

I just wish all that want his head on a platter would just go ahead put on trial with a jury of his peers find him guilty or innocent and be done with it. Then all those people could go to something else they can do absolutely nothing about.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Nov 11, 2010, at 8:40 PM

rr3yv0

Actually rr, like many other Americans I have mixed feelings on the matter.

I do think he probably broke our laws, but then we also have to consider his intent.

He clearly believed our Nation was in immediate danger of another attack, and after the attack on 9/11 who can blame him for thinking that? I think his intention was to protect America at all costs, and on top of that he was receiving legal advice from trusted attorneys who were telling him it was lawful and not torture.

Then there is the matter of a long, drawn out trial that may open more wounds than it heals. In addition, I am not sure we want to set a precedent which will cause future President's to hesitate to take emergency defense measures for fear that they may be prosecuted after they leave office.

I think perhaps if we were going to do anything about this matter then perhaps we should have impeached him and tried him in the Senate while he was still in office.

Now I am personally not sure what we should do.

Do you have any thoughts on this mate? I would love to hear any suggestions we may have from the loyal opposition.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Nov 11, 2010, at 8:13 PM

News, as always,the links are great. Thanks!

-- Posted by Jo on Thu, Nov 11, 2010, at 7:43 PM

I wish they would just do it and get it over with.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Nov 11, 2010, at 6:30 PM

"Democratic Congressman Nadler: 'Shameful' 'dereliction of duty' not to prosecute Bush"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/rep-n...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Nov 11, 2010, at 6:11 PM

"Pressure rises on Obama to investigate Bush for torture"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/press...

...and rightly so.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Nov 11, 2010, at 6:08 PM

Jo

I understand how you feel. It is frustrating trying to get 3rd Parties into Congress. We have managed to do it here in Australia -- the Green Party controls our Senate here and thank goodness they do, but getting the Greens to the point where they were viable took a very long time.

You may be surprised what might happen in the Democratic Primaries in 2012 though. I believe Obama will not seek a 2nd term, and I think Hillary will be running. She is the obvious choice for the Democrats and if she runs I believe she will win easily in 2012.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Nov 11, 2010, at 3:16 PM

I don't have any other Candidate to Vote for this next Election, but i do know, It won't be for a Republican! My hope is that some of the Social Democrats, get a true Socialist Leader Running as a third Party candidate.But everyone is scared of the word Socialist,witch we have a lot of right now, and works extremely well! With that kind of balance, Socialism works,i think! If there could be that kind of Candidate & option i would consider getting away from the Party we have now! trying too agree with any of the Republicans Policies is impossible for me! And Democratic isn't what it use too be??

-- Posted by Jo on Thu, Nov 11, 2010, at 2:24 PM

"Obama agrees to allow rich bigger tax cut than middle class"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/white...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/10...

Well does anyone still think we on the left will be supporting Obama in the 2012 Democratic Primaries?

Anyone?

This guy is finished. There is no way he will be nominated in 2012 and no way he can win in 2012.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Nov 11, 2010, at 7:38 AM

"America...a Nation founded on double Standards"

George Carlin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Rlqjxst6...

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Nov 10, 2010, at 11:43 PM

rr3yv0

Yes...I do actually get confirmation of the facts they report. I do check with other sources before I accept their report...and yes I do have the time to do it.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Nov 10, 2010, at 11:30 PM

The good news is that of the 34 house democrats who actually voted against healthcare reform only 13 remain. So even though the dems have less members in the house it seems most of the conservative dems are gone. I agree that most liberals wanted more from this reform also. It was better than the right-wing health care reform oh my mistake there wasnt such a thing. To you on the right who oppose health those on the right just wanted to take credit for this bill which will never happen.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Wed, Nov 10, 2010, at 10:20 PM

News how do you know every fact they report is fact. Do you have time to verify each and every one or do you have to accept them at face value?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Nov 10, 2010, at 10:18 PM

rr3yv0

The Health Care law as passed was written by conservative Democrats. We liberals opposed it the minute they took single payer off the table.

The only form of Health Care this American supports is full socialized medicine where there is no direct cost to the patient and all medical costs are paid our of general taxes. Yes this will mean making some serious cuts to military spending and yes it will mean ending empire building. But that is good thing because empire building is killiing our Nation's economy.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Nov 10, 2010, at 10:06 PM

rr3yv0

Again, Raw Story is a news reporter not a blog or opinion page. They report facts. I don't think facts will lead me by the nose. Facts are facts...not opinion. Raw reports the facts and I form my own opinion.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Nov 10, 2010, at 10:02 PM

I thought that was the reason we passed Obamacare news was so everyone would have healthcare. Why are we having this problem?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Nov 10, 2010, at 9:53 PM

Wtf I thought you liked the Rush quotes I was only posting them for you.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Nov 10, 2010, at 9:46 PM

Uh news Raw Story may be leading you by the nose. Watch it!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Nov 10, 2010, at 9:45 PM

Oh and folks...

if strong adult language bothers you then you may not want to view the links to George's Carlin's comments posted below.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Nov 10, 2010, at 8:47 PM

...and while I am at it,

George has some other interesting observations of our Society too...

"YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS" - George Carlin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWiBt-pqp...

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Nov 10, 2010, at 8:45 PM

News

Youre right some on the right are calling for war with Iran and North Korea, but at the same time they want to repeal health care. So the right wants to spend our taxpayer money on wars and giving tax cuts to the rich along with giving power to big coorps. Well I say h*** no you can't!!This will be the biggest waste of money in the history of the U.S.. The people will stand up against this and could end the right wing as we know it. How does any of this help the working and middle class people?

-- Posted by cheesehead on Wed, Nov 10, 2010, at 8:44 PM

Nan,

I think George Carlin had our Nation's sick, perverted, meglamaniacal obsession with killing brown skinned people in 3rd World Countries pretty well figured out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDkhzHQO7...

And like George, I guess I must not be a good American because I prefer to form my own opinions rather than being lead by the nose by our Government propaganda and the conservative media.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Nov 10, 2010, at 8:38 PM

WTF,

lol lol lol lol lol lol...

You are not alone mate lol lol lol...

Nan,

You are absolutely correct and this despite the fact that our Constitution mandates that the Government provide for the "General Welfare" of the People.

But don't worry, after folks see what these Teabagger/Republican/conservative/neocons want to do to the People -- the Teabagger/Republican/conservative/neocons will be finished.

I soooooooooooo look forward to 2012!!

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Nov 10, 2010, at 8:21 PM

Eric,

Can we have a separate blog for "Rush" worship?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Nov 10, 2010, at 6:40 PM

rr3yv0

I wish someone would tell Rush that I don't want to have to pay taxes to support the wars. Why should I have to pay for these wars when there are deadbeats out there that don't?

Let's end these wars and cut the military budget.

We don't need war. We do need socialized health-care.

If we have dollars to kill with then we have dollars to heal with.

Oh and I wish someone would tell Rush that we are one Nation and we all have to make sacrifices for the good of the Nation -- such as ending those wars that Rush so strongly supported -- and such as giving a helping hand up to those Americans who need that help..

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Nov 10, 2010, at 5:32 PM

"59 million in US lack health insurance: study"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/59-mi...

This is a huge number and it is unacceptable.

Its time our Nation joins the rest of the modern World and move into the 21st Century of health-care.

We need socialized medicine and we need it now.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Nov 10, 2010, at 5:24 PM

"California epitomizes this notion that you don't have to pay for what you want or have or need: $500B of unfunded pensions, $40M a day to people who don't work? I know me calling for tax increases is simply unbelievable, but these are the people calling on the rest of us to pay for them!" -Rush

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Nov 10, 2010, at 5:21 PM

"Ex-German leader: Bush lying about Iraq in new book"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/germa...

Yes we know he is a liar...but oddly enough the Teabaggers still support and defend him.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Nov 10, 2010, at 4:53 PM

We now have a forum for discussing religious issues. It's at http://www.marshallnews.com/story/167981...

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Wed, Nov 10, 2010, at 4:50 PM

Wow okr was it really necessary to disrespect others when you don't like to topic of discussion?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Nov 10, 2010, at 2:24 PM

Wow there is a lot of really wormy stuff on the POLITICAL blog these days, can't bring myself to even read it, let alone honor it by engaging in that conversation. See you later.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Nov 10, 2010, at 1:49 PM

rr3yvo,

""Keep thinking they are our friends it will be alright."

That is your comment. Can you tell us who were you referring to in that comment?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Nov 9, 2010, at 8:46 PM

I have no idea wtf what you think that's why I can't answer your question. I could make an assumption like you but I can't assume what you believe now can I?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Nov 10, 2010, at 9:03 AM

News I wouldn't exactly describe Nana's words as words of wisdom. Until you are born again you can't begin to understand what a Christian is.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Nov 10, 2010, at 9:00 AM

News saved by grace but we are still sinners we are only forgiven if we repent. You left that very important part out. Also the Roman Catholic religion is a false religion because they pray to idols and any belief that thinks you earn you way to heaven is false I don't care if they are the largest it is false if they don't believe they are saved by grace and repenting of their sin. Please study some more before you assume what a Christian is. Thanks. Faith without works is dead but is you are truly saved you will have the desire for good works. Works will not earn you a spot in heaven.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Nov 10, 2010, at 8:58 AM

NanaDot

Thanks for those words of wisdom.

I would like to point out to rr and some of the others that within Christianity the concept of "Grace" (born again with no sin and guaranteed a place in Heaven no matter what sins they commit after they have been "born again") is only accepted by a minority of Christians.

The largest Christian sect in the World is the Roman Catholic Church -- which by itself is still the largest single religion in the World -- estimated to include 1.5 billion to 2 billion followers. They far outnumber the evangelical, puritan Southern Baptists and all other Protestant sects combined. In fact, the Protestants don't even come close to the number of Catholics in the World...nowhere near close.

The Catholics don't buy the concept of Grace at all. They believe that faith without acts is a guaranteed trip to Hell. They believe that faith alone does not cleanse one of sin but in fact one must confess each and every sin to God and do penance for each and every sin or risk eternal damnation -- hence Last Rites which are a must have for any devout Catholic on his or her death-bed.

So rr's and many other evangelical Christian's belief in Grace is that of a small, but vocal, minority of Christians and is not a belief shared by most Christians. Most Christians are Catholic and they believe that faith and acts are equally important.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Nov 10, 2010, at 7:29 AM

THE REAL CAUSE OF MIDDLE EASTERN TERRORISM:

One of the problems we have is that Fox News, and to a lessor degree most of the other news "providers," Bush and his pals,...and some of the Democrats as well,...have demonized Muslims to the point where the average American seems to have no idea what motivates the Middle Eastern folks, many of who happen to also be Muslim.

The fact of the matter is that none of the Middle Eastern terrorists were religiously motivated, but rather the Arabs and many other Middle Eastern folk are motivated by political reasons. They are sick and tired of Israel's brutal occupation of Palestine and the treatment of Israeli Muslims and Arabs as 2nd class citizens. The majority in the Middle East want Israel's military occupation of the Palestinian lands to stop. They want the destruction of Palestinian Homes and Buildings to stop. They want the building of Jewish settlements in the Palestinian territories -- which are not part of Israel at all -- to stop. They want the thousands of Palestinian children jailed in Israel freed. They want the torture of Palestinian children inside Israeli jails to stop. They want the human rights of all Israeli citizens -- including Arab and Muslim Israelis -- to be respected by the Israeli Government, military, and police. And they want the United States military troops out of the Middle East.

What they want is political -- not religious.

The Middle Eastern folks are well aware of who is financing the Israeli's brutal occupation of the Palestinian territories is -- its the United States. That makes us their enemy along with Israel.

The Middle Eastern folks have been fighing for justice in the Palestinian Territories for over 60 years now, and there is nothing we can do to stop it except to force Israel to stop its brutal occupation and agree to a disarmed, Palestinian Nation in the Palestinian Territories.

If we want peace and we want to be free from Middle Eastern based terrorism, then we will absolutly have to stop supporting Israeli aggression and oppression of the Palestinians.

Until that happens...we might as well get used to the Middle Eastern based terrorism. If over 60 years of brutality at the hands of the Israelies and the many wars with both Israel and the United States hasn't stopped them by now -- then clearly the heavy handed approach of the United States and Israel never will work.

We need a sensible foreign policy in the Middle East -- one that recognizes the political and human rights of both sides, and we need to stop financing the Israeli oppression of the Palestinians.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Nov 10, 2010, at 4:00 AM

There is an interesting blog by Pat Nolan, "Information freedom and supporting reporting" that is stirring controversy with divergent opinions from people on the left.

There are several reasons it is worth checking out, not the least being that it is a clear example that all on the left do not all think the same. Another good reason is that it is the kind of discussion that many who post here like to join.

Check it out.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Nov 10, 2010, at 1:46 AM

rr3yvo,

Just what I thought. I simply asked for you to clarify your comments. I know through innuendo what you are saying. If you really feel that way then why don't you have the guts to just say it?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Nov 9, 2010, at 11:34 PM

You are right cheesehead God is compassionate and merciful but according to the Koran you have to earn it by good deeds outnumbering the bad and you don't know if you will achieve paradise until after you die. According to the Bible all you have to do is accept him and repent of your sins and you will be saved making heaven after you die. We know that as soon as we accept him we don't have to wait until after we die to know. I would hate to try to earn my way to paradise all my life then find out I didn't make it because he decided not to be compassionate and merciful because the God of Islam makes no guarantee. You said yourself it is up to God so that disqualifies both of us from judging each other. According to your statement I can't judge whether or not you hate someone or you are spreading indecency now can I? or you?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Nov 9, 2010, at 10:33 PM

Wtf you can answer the question yourself but for some reason you don't want to. I really can't answer the question for you.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Nov 9, 2010, at 10:18 PM

rr3yvo,

It doesn't matter what I think. I didn't make the comment, you did. Why don't you stop being coy and tell everyone exactly what you think? I have a pretty good idea about what your trying to say but do you have the guts to actually say it?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Nov 9, 2010, at 10:12 PM

rr,

The Koran actualy says that God is compassionate and merciful and that those who spread indecency will suffer in this world in the next. I do actually have an english translation of the Koran or Quran right next to me. However some take this phrase of suffer in this world to into their own hands. I believe this is up to God so do most Muslims, its not us to decide who is to suffer, yet you are one who spreads indecency and it will not be any Muslim who decides your fate it will be God. Hate is how persicution begins if you spread it enough someone will take action. This is what Rush and Fox news does. You assist in this cause with some of your posts.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Nov 9, 2010, at 10:03 PM

I've been seeing a lot of programs about Bush and his Book! He is flatout incriminating himself in what should be War Crimes! So why isn't the Judiciary acting,and indictment put on him? Although i do consider him innocent because of a Mental Defect! Im not a Psychologist, but he is a pathetic little person (i won't say Man), that was lead into all of this. Sacrificing his own self esteem, and his Family's! From all of the interview, if you have a mind at all,and look in this persons eyes,along with mannerisms, you can see he is oblivious to the Sacrifices of lives he and others caused! Like i said in the past,this man is nuts,but still responsible,along with others too be tried for War Crimes,or the law means nothing! And to think i once wanted to be in enforcement of the law! Funny

-- Posted by Jo on Tue, Nov 9, 2010, at 9:58 PM

Well cheesehead you didn't answer my question. I have studied what Islam stands for and maybe you have too but it doesn't sound like it from your comment. I don't think Fox or Rush have classes on Islam so I guess I didn't get my information there. Have you read any of the Koran or the Hadith? They use our freedoms to further their agenda and their goal is not to live in peace and harmony with infidels.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Nov 9, 2010, at 9:18 PM

rr,

There you go again. What exactly do Muslims stand for in your mind, not Rush Limbaugh because we all know he is a hate monger? There are radical Muslims just like there are Christians. The problem isnt speaking out against things you don't believe in its when you speak out against something you know nothing about or take a hate monger such as Limbaugh and use him as your preacher of God's word. Hate only breeds hate and ignorance only breeds ignorance. More Muslims are trying to take on the extremist in Islam, but its kind of like Liberals at a Tea party rally only worse. What Muslims need is support in dealing with extremist is not hate propaganda against Islam. Most Muslims have never killed anybody or supported such things so maybe you should do some actual research on Islam somewhere else than Fox or Rush as these 2 sources are the worst sources a man can have.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Nov 9, 2010, at 9:02 PM

Do you think they are our friends wtf? Time to shut the fan off.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Nov 9, 2010, at 8:48 PM

Cheesehead what qualifies you to judge whether me or Rush are true Christians? I'm not able to do it that is between the individual and God because God is the only one that knows what is in the heart. For one thing I don't hate Muslims I just hate what they stand for you can construe that as hate if you want. Could I make the assumption that you hate Christians? You are way off the mark assuming I hate Muslims. Islam the religion is our enemy and those that follow what it really says. We usually classify those as radicals. But the time is coming when their numbers will be great enough that they will no longer be friendly and will follow through with what the Koran tells them about infidels or unbelievers. One day we won't be able to speak out against a religion or a lifestyle because it will be a hate crime I hope as a nation we don't fall into that trap.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Nov 9, 2010, at 8:46 PM

rr3yvo,

""Keep thinking they are our friends it will be alright."

That is your comment. Can you tell us who were you referring to in that comment?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Nov 9, 2010, at 8:46 PM

Cheesehead,

Well said. Let's not forget that with all the things you said about Rush he made gazillions doing them. Talk about the American dream.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Nov 9, 2010, at 8:43 PM

rr,

Why do you keep quoting Rush and talking about Muslims like they are the enemy? First of all if you call yourself a Christian then how could you promote the hate and divisive politics of this man? He is trying to get his viewers to hate Obama and Muslims and you have quoted him on this. Does the bible teach you that hate is ok or do you just put politics over your faith? There is a sector of Muslims which are usually properly called terrorist which hate Americans or Christians or anybody not like themselves and this is wrong. Rush Limbaugh is not a true Christian, he is very unchrist like and he hates others that our not like him. The thing that terrorist and Limbaugh have in common are hate speech and followers and they both try to convince the common men they have influence over that the others are evil.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Nov 9, 2010, at 8:30 PM

"It is uncomfortable to actually believe, much less say, that we've elected somebody who's happily presiding over our decline and goes over to India and practically applauds the end of American dominance." -Rush

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Nov 9, 2010, at 7:40 PM

I'm not sure why you want to keep fanning the flames here wtf but who was I being derogatory to?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Nov 9, 2010, at 7:37 PM

"The Big Lie"

"...the last year or so in America's political culture has represented the triumph of untruth. And the untruth was propagated by a deliberate, simple and systemic campaign to kill Obama's presidency in its crib. Emergency measures in a near-unprecedented economic collapse - the bank bailout, the auto-bailout, the stimulus - were described by the right as ideological moves of choice, when they were, in fact, pragmatic moves of necessity."

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/th...

An editorial that clears the air about the Presiden's policies. Well written, concise and to the point, its a good read.

Enjoy!

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Nov 9, 2010, at 7:15 PM

rr3yvo.

In reagards the FOX news reports regarding Sharia law you said:

"Keep thinking they are our friends it will be alright."

Is that not a derogatory comment?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Nov 9, 2010, at 6:59 PM

"Pastor convicted of stalking abortion doctors"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/pasto...

Note the words "convicted of stalking."

Stalking...now that was real Christian of him...

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Nov 9, 2010, at 6:48 PM

"Former British intelligence chairman all but calls Bush liar, says waterboarding didn't stop terror plots"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/briti...

We seriously need to see a Grand Jury investigation of the serious potential crimes of the Bush Administration. Certainly we have enough evidence -- including Bush's admissions -- to justify a Federal Grand Jury investigation.

Bush deserves his day in court...and so do we, The American People. Justice is what we seek and justice is what we all deserve.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Nov 9, 2010, at 5:47 PM

Wtf fanning the flames the Fox influence I don't think so I simply responded to your post and didn't even make a derogatory comment. I call that good discussion.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Nov 9, 2010, at 5:25 PM

I suggest that some may want to review the history of the early English settlement of New England. They were virtually Christian theocracies, but couldn't make a go of it, even after they killed all the witches in their midst LOL.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Nov 9, 2010, at 5:15 PM

rr3yvo,

You are correct so why do you keep fanning the flames? Is it the FOX influence?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Nov 9, 2010, at 4:07 PM

It probably would wtf but it would fly in the face of religious freedom now wouldn't it? As for the ten commandments some of them are laws and have been for centuries haven't they?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Nov 9, 2010, at 3:06 PM

But wait a minute, you just said outlawing Islam in the U.S. would solve alot of problems didn't you? Do you really think that?

BTW, the Christians do want the 10 commandments to be the law of the land.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Nov 9, 2010, at 2:48 PM

I mean really wtf what if the chrisians wanted to have the ten commandments as the rule of the land. Mandatory prison or death sentence for breaking any one of them. I mean really would anyone go for that I don't think so. All I want is equal representation of all religions no favorites.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Nov 9, 2010, at 1:16 PM

It would solve a lot of problems don't you think?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Nov 9, 2010, at 1:11 PM

rr3yvo,

Why don't you just say it already? Do you think Islam should be outlawed in the U.S. or not?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Nov 9, 2010, at 12:31 PM

Oklahoma's Ban on Shariah Law Blocked:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/11/08/okl...

Keep thinking they are our friends it will be alright.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Nov 9, 2010, at 10:55 AM

cheesehead

Well I think we the voters will hold them to account in 2012. I have the feeling Democrats will be flocking to the polls in record-setting numbers in the next election, and frankly, I don't think these Teabaggers stand a chance then.

So they have 2 years to do nothing then we replace them with Democrats.

However, I thought it interesting how quickly the Teabagges backed off their promises. Its like we on the left have been saying all along, these Teabaggers are nothing more than the standard, right-wing crazies of the Republican Party. They were all here in 2000 and most, if not all of them, fully supported Bush in both 2000 and 2004. They then supported McCain/Palin in 2008.

The name "Teaparty" may be a new name they have given themselves, but they are still just the right-wing wackos of the Republican Party and nothing more.

I guess Teabaggers have not figured out yet that they can put their boots in an oven and call them "bisquits," but they are still just boots.

The Teabaggers can call themselves anything they want, but they are still just the same old crazy, ultra-conservatives of the Republican Party...as they have always been.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Nov 8, 2010, at 8:26 PM

News,

John Boehner did this exact same thing just a couple of days ago. These guys only want something to say. They only want to cut earmarks when it suits to them. The only problem with this is that those on the right won't try to hold them to their word whether it just voters or their media.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Mon, Nov 8, 2010, at 7:56 PM

"Revealed: Rand Paul reverses on core campaign pledge before even taking office"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/flipf...

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Nov 8, 2010, at 5:29 PM

Jhh

Thanks for your posting regarding the Triune nature of the God you worship.

It was well written and very informative. From an achademic standpoint, it is a very complex subject.

As you know, I don't share your religious beliefs, but I certainly support your right to your beliefs. In addition, I share an interest in Christianity from an achadmic standpoint. Its a facinating religion.

Thanks again for your interesting comment.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Nov 8, 2010, at 4:04 PM

It appears that Fox news is going to turn to 2012 presidential election into a reality show according to Mike Wallace. Fox is already at work tring to make a profit off 2012 GOP primary. Since they already own most of the candidates this should be easy for them. Since Palin,Gingrich, Huckabee, and Santorum already work for Fox who gets the easier questions now! We now know that Fox has no code of ethics for its employees and they can donate money to candidates of their choice, but isnt this crossing the line when you have 4 GOP presidential candidate working for you. This could backfire if they show too much favor to 1 of their employees.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/chris...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Mon, Nov 8, 2010, at 3:47 PM

News Across,

I am confused as to your leanings. You seem like a bleeding heart liberal, but you use a gay bashing term when you want to call someone you disagree with a name.

-- Posted by GettinAround on Mon, Nov 8, 2010, at 2:17 PM

News I misunderstood what net neutrality was about but after reading about it I am in favor too. Thanks

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Nov 8, 2010, at 11:01 AM

rr3yv0

Yes I certainly favor net neutrality.

The cost comes in when internet providers give preference to some data over other. Basically, it allows them to slow down some data...or you can pay an extra fee for that data and they will speed it up. Its just another way to further squeeze the consumer and it won't be cheap.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Nov 8, 2010, at 7:18 AM

News I didn't see in the article where the price of the net would rise unless I missed it. Are you for net neutrality? I think it would be just another freedom lost.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Nov 8, 2010, at 6:30 AM

You're right Nana because that is what it says.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Nov 8, 2010, at 6:24 AM

Oh I was shooting straight with you news you just keep moving the target.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Nov 8, 2010, at 6:22 AM

"GOP wins in Congress effectively doom 'Net Neutrality'"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/gop-w...

Oh boy, that's going to raise the cost of using the net.

Thanks a lot Republican/Teabaggers!!

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Nov 8, 2010, at 5:06 AM

"Keith Olbermann returns to MSNBC on Tuesday: network president"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/keith...

Thank goodness this great American commentator has been vindicated and will soon be back on the job.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Nov 8, 2010, at 2:31 AM

Frustrated because you feel powerless to thwart the corporatocracy in their endless effort to run over the people? Read this. There really are things that we the people can do. http://www.alternet.org/story/148761/10_...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Nov 8, 2010, at 12:36 AM

Oh and rr,

I don't think I will get the book although I do think it would be a good read.

But I did enjoy the vido/audio very much. If I have nothing else, I do have a sense of humor.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Nov 7, 2010, at 11:11 PM

rr3yv0

I count 3 Gods.

God the Father = 1

God the Holy Spirit or Ghost, depending on your creed, = 1

God the Son = 1

1 God + 1 God + 1 God = 3 Gods.

Anybody with any rudimentary math skills can see that 1 + 1 + 1 = 3, BUT it does not equal 1 and it never will.

...and rr, anytime someone tries to tell me that 1 +1 + 1 = 1, I immediately know one thing for sure...they aren't shootin' straight with me.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Nov 7, 2010, at 11:09 PM

I don't know new I haven't read the book. I thought you would like it though.

Oh and news the triune God is God in three persons-one God not three.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Nov 7, 2010, at 10:04 PM

Oh come on rr,

You aren't buying into that nonsense are you?

Now rr, I know we disagree on a lot of the issues, but I also know you are a fairly reasonable, highly intelligent person. I think you must see that they are just trying to sell a book...surely you can see that rr.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Nov 7, 2010, at 9:19 PM

wtf: I've had that frustration from day one & till the Day i die.I don't think i have ever hated like that before. Cheney is maybe getting some payback. I hope he lives for a long time,just like he is! They have a lot of Blood on their hands!

-- Posted by Jo on Sun, Nov 7, 2010, at 8:13 PM

Nana Dot: I felt that you could put me on track to my question,and i thank you.I'm barely able to get on this PC,but with help from people like you,and my Grandaughter,(that has no interest in Politic)will get me by, i guess. Thanks again!

-- Posted by Jo on Sun, Nov 7, 2010, at 7:54 PM

You can choose not to believe the truth if you want news your choice. Laughing will not make it less true. HAHAHAHAHAHA!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Nov 7, 2010, at 7:30 PM

rr...

I watched/listened to the link you posted.

It was hillareous. I really enjoyed that piece of right-wing-crazy propaganda. I don't believe any of it, but it was hillareous.

Thanks mate!

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Nov 7, 2010, at 7:21 PM

Yeah rr,

2 years -- you didn't even give him that long. You were attacking him the day he was elected.

But don't worry mate, with the crazy ideas of Lil' Boehner, you will be lucky the voters give the neocon/teabaggers even 2 years before they start screaming for Lil' Boehner's head on a platter...lol lol lol...

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Nov 7, 2010, at 7:12 PM

If Bush thought Iraq was such a slam-dunk good idea and that the American people would support it then why didn't they sell war bonds to pay for it? It wasn't paid for and is now reflected in the budgetary numbers. That is Bush's fault. Bush left us alot to deal with. There is no magic wand to fix it and neither will partisan idealism. My personal frustration with pres. Obama is that Bush,Cheney and Rumsfeld aren't sitting in prison as we speak.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Nov 7, 2010, at 7:09 PM

REVEALED: What really motivates Barack Obama

as he works to destroy America

Warning this video could be bad for your health if you have a liberal point of view.

https://members.humaneventsonline.com/vi...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Nov 7, 2010, at 6:55 PM

What have we heard the last 2 years from the libs:

We just have to give the guy a chance.

Their just trying to clean up the mess we are in and you expect them to do it in two years.

It's all Bush's fault.

Obama's reluctant to come on too strong

I'm not ready to give up on him yet.

I do feel he is a good Man and wants to do good for the Country

I have been very critical of the policies of the Democrats and Obama.

Immediately after election 2010:

We got the same one's that got us in this mess.

They're in power now you got 2 years to get it done.

They have two years to make good on all their absurd promises and idiotic plans.

Ok now we want your plan to solve our economic problems and how you will get them past the president and when it will be done and I mean we want it now.

Funny how that works.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Nov 7, 2010, at 6:45 PM

Sorry class but you are all wrong the only true God is the God of the Bible and all others religions are not enemies they are just false religions. Parts of other religions do follow what the Bible says but the Bible is 100% true and you can't just believe parts of it or parts you want to believe and be a Christian.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Nov 7, 2010, at 6:24 PM

To all of those folks wondering what the Republican agenda is, here is John Boehner explaining how he would raise the retirement age to 70.

"Ensuring there's enough money to pay for the war will require reforming the country's entitlement system, Boehner said. He said he'd favor increasing the Social Security retirement age to 70 for people who have at least 20 years until retirement, tying cost-of-living increases to the consumer price index rather than wage inflation and limiting payments to those who need them."

"We need to look at the American people and explain to them that we're broke," Boehner said. "If you have substantial non-Social Security income while you're retired, why are we paying you at a time when we're broke? We just need to be honest with people."

Watch the video http://dailybail.com/home/john-boehner-s...

-- Posted by Divergent Thinker on Sun, Nov 7, 2010, at 6:19 PM

"Rand Paul: GOP must consider military spending cuts"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/rand-...

ROTFLMAO!!

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Nov 7, 2010, at 5:01 PM

"Reagan budget chief slams GOP on taxes"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/reaga...

wow!!

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Nov 7, 2010, at 4:36 PM

Nan...

Oops! I should have looked at your link first before I responded to Jo lol lol lol...

Well Jo,

Nan's link seems to confirm what my wife told me.

My wife, by the way, is 100% Australian but she loves to follow American politics. Of course seeing that she is married to an American, has a bunch of relatives who are Americans, and has the right under our laws in the USA to immigrate to the USA and become a citizen (because she has been married to me for so many years) then I guess her interest in American politics is justified lol lol... Anyway, she really keeps her eye on political matters.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Nov 7, 2010, at 4:19 PM

Jo,

I don't know the exact number of Blue Dogs (DINOS -- democrat in name only) that lost their seats in the House, but my wife, who keeps a very close eye on those things says that most of the Democrats who lost their seats were indeed Blue Dogs (DINOS).

It serves them right too.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Nov 7, 2010, at 4:10 PM

Has anyone found out how many Blue Dogs lost in this Election? i'v had no luck.

-- Posted by Jo on Sun, Nov 7, 2010, at 9:28 AM

Well. Here we are after the elections. And all I can say to the winners is this: You have two years to make good on all your absurd promises and idiotic plans. Two years, kids - that's it. Better get moving, eh?

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Sun, Nov 7, 2010, at 6:53 AM

Can a person worship Buh, or Mungu, and be heard by God?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Nov 7, 2010, at 1:55 AM

""If you look at the US, you look at who we're electing to Congress, to the Senate -- they can't read," he said. "I'll bet you a bunch of these people don't have passports. We're about to start a trade war with China if we're not careful here ... only because nobody knows where China is. Nobody knows what China is."

New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg

Saturday, November 6th, 2010

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/bloom...

He definately has some good points there...

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Nov 6, 2010, at 11:42 PM

Jo, that's a good point about Obama's possible reluctance to come on too strong for fear of being called even worse names (like BIGOT, e.g.). Our "political correctness" surely muddies the water at times.

I've looked to find the number of new democrats elected to the house but I haven't come across any figures.

I want to see how many incumbents in both parties got turned over. All I'm seeing the newspeople blabbing about is the 50 seats claimed by the republicans.

This shows the level of mentality by the news organizations, in my estimation.

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Nov 6, 2010, at 9:18 PM

"Did tea party movement cost GOP the Senate?"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/tea-p...

Food for thought...

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Nov 6, 2010, at 9:09 PM

mrxray

The Republicans only won the House because the Dems and the left did not get out ant vote...mate. But please enjoy your brief majority in the House. You have 2 years then your boys are out.

Enjoy!

"Voting Intentions Even, Turnout Indicators Favor GOP"

http://people-press.org/report/630/

"Conventional odds are stacked against Democrats in November"

Paragraph 3

http://politic365.com/2010/07/28/poll-po...

"Republicans Win Big in Elections -- Bankruptcy of Democratic Party Leads to Spectacular Fall"

http://www.socialistalternative.org/news...

"Why Democrats Lost the House to Republicans"

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-2...

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Nov 6, 2010, at 8:46 PM

News Across; He has shown to me that he is very slow about taking on his adversaries! I also wonder if him being the first Black President,if maybe he feels he shouldn't be too aggressive. That people would feel threatened by that? I 'm not going to give up on him entirely,yet! He may come back like Gangbuster,i hope. I think he feels he would like to go down in History as a good President.I do feel he is a good Man with what he wants to do for the Country! But dealing with the thugs he has to deal with,is pretty tough. That is why i have always felt the way the system is rigged, and all the nonsensical thing has to be done away with! Getting the Money out would be a great beginning, keeping the Lobbyist out, along with Voting reform,a 51% Majority Vote on anything,Term Limits on every position but the Presidency! Let the People decide on that! As it is now everything takes up so much of the Presidents time,nothing ever gets done! To me everything is rigged to the Politicians advantage,not the Peoples! One things for sure if none of (these thing) are taken care of its the some old smoke and mirrors! I learn a lot from you guys, thanks! Hang in there Ha.

-- Posted by Jo on Sat, Nov 6, 2010, at 7:30 PM

News... funny how the left cried that the election of Obama was a mandate against Republicans and that somehow it meant that the nation was suddenly extremist left instead of center right....

Why is it that when the electorate repudiates the extreme leftist turn that somehow it is NOT about the people not liking or wanting the extreme leftist policies? LOL

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Nov 6, 2010, at 6:52 PM

Jo,

I think this recent election had a lot more to do with an angry populas sitting out an election far more than it is about Republican Platform positions.

These Republicans are in charge of the House temporarily. After 2 years of seeing what the Republicans want to do to our Social Security, our Medicare and Medicaid, and our economy, the voters will be happy to have the opportunity to vote these Republican crazies out of power in 2012.

Personally Jo, I think the problem is that Obama is a wimp.

There I said it.

The man has no courage and refuses to stand up to the Republicans who not so long ago tried to run our Nation right into the ground. I doubt very much if he will even consider running for a 2nd term. He simply has no support.

So I am getting on the "elect Hillary" band wagon. She may be our best hope for the future.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Nov 6, 2010, at 6:34 PM

Jo,

I'll say thank you very much for the nice compliment, and I'll add that you can speak in my place any time. I admire your ability to get to the point. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Nov 6, 2010, at 5:53 PM

Reading this blog awhile,seeing the Comments of everyone,personally i think Nanadot,okla,slater,News Across,have a lot too say. With a common sense aproach. I have back up some of there fact,and they know what their talking about! My opinion! They can speak for them selves!

-- Posted by Jo on Sat, Nov 6, 2010, at 12:33 PM

rr3,

Of course Muslims don't worship the bible. We were talking about God, not books. They do worship the same God as Jews and Christians worship. Sorry, but them's the facts.

-- Posted by taxedpayer on Sat, Nov 6, 2010, at 12:20 PM

rr3yvo,

Let me get this straight. Christianity is the only true religion and all others are your enemy?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Nov 6, 2010, at 12:18 PM

rr3yvo,

Muslims are not my enemy.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Nov 6, 2010, at 12:16 PM

triune God = mulitple Gods...in the case of the Christians this means 3 Gods.

lol lol lol

Yeah you are correct rr, the Muslims only worship 1 God...the God of Abraham.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Nov 6, 2010, at 11:58 AM

So the last 2 years have been blamed on Bush can we blame the next 2 on Obama. Seems fair to me.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Nov 6, 2010, at 11:46 AM

Nana Muslims don't worship the bible because they only believe parts of the the parts copied in their Koran. They don't believe Jesus is the son of God and they don't believe in the triune God. So sorry Nana and taxedpayer I don't buy into their message you can if you want. Muslim is a false religion a cult.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Nov 6, 2010, at 11:44 AM

"Poll shows midterms not a GOP mandate"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/repub...

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Nov 6, 2010, at 10:40 AM

rr3,

No, NanaD got it right. Your welcome to disagree/dislike the Muslims, but it's a historical and theological fact that they worship the same God Christians do. To say Allah is not God is comparable to saying the God of Catholics is not the same God worshipped by Protestants. There are different ways of worship, different beliefs, but same God. Allah is the Arabic word for God, that's all.

-- Posted by taxedpayer on Sat, Nov 6, 2010, at 8:43 AM

outsider

You can forget about Obama...he won't be running...but Hillary will be running...lol lol lol.

...and you may not be so all fired up about these Republicans in 2 years mate lol lol lol...

Look for things to get much, much worse...especially the economy.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Nov 6, 2010, at 8:16 AM

Nana I am sorry you are wrong.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Nov 6, 2010, at 7:02 AM

Cheesehead am I hypocritical because my opinion differs from yours? I don't think so!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Nov 6, 2010, at 7:01 AM

Critical of the Democrats? Ok news thats your story and you're sticking to it!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Nov 6, 2010, at 7:00 AM

news....don't forget, nothing changes until January. What will be interesting is seeing just what kind of crap this lame-duck group of sore losers tries to push through between now and then. After January, if the Repub house sends bill after bill that the public agrees with to the Senate and President only to have them rejected, look for Barry O to be building houses with Jimmy Carter after Nov 2012.

-- Posted by outsider on Sat, Nov 6, 2010, at 6:38 AM

news... as for any entitlement program, even for ones in Australia, they STILL dont SOVLE the problem as to why they are homeless or unemployed. They are ALL Still a burden to the economy and take away initiative and motivation for those for have become enslaved to the welfare lifestyle and expect and DEMAND that someone else take care of them. It takes away hope and desire and self reliance and exchanges these things with hopelessness, despair and depression.

The whole argument that you are going to make; where you say that if we oppose entitlements then we are selfish and uncaring is a false argument and you know it so dont bother.

What needs to be done is once jobs are being created and our economy has been on the upswing for a while, we need to revamp our system of caring for the poor, homeless, jobless and etc by actually looking HONESTLY into WHY they are poor and homeless and jobless. Instead of inciting class warfare to garner votes and creating more and more welfare programs to garner votes, we need to take a more realistic and more individual look as to the reasons WHY they are having difficulty making it in life and then GUIDE them through the process of bettering their selves. Education and living expenses can be provided to people in need in exchange for work programs like our young people do in work study programs while in college but instead of doing work at schools they could do work in our communities doing mowing and weeding and trash pick up and working at city events or mutltitudes of other jobs. They could pool together and babysit each other's kids while they attend classes and counseling and other really helpful activities.

This would accomplish several things. One we would be addressing REAL reasons that people are poor and etc instead of blaming rich people or big corporations or racism or any other crutch. Another would be providing guidance where the people in need would be doing the hard work required which would allow them to feel good about their selves as they meet their goals and providing hope as they see how meeting their goals helps them progress to overcoming poverty, and it would give the tax payers and people who donate money a sense that something REAL is being done for people instead of feeding a government bureaucracy that is full of fraud, waste and corruption and red tape.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Nov 6, 2010, at 1:56 AM

I am also curions NEWSACROSS... why is it that you cannot EVER make a comment without some derisive adjective or insult towards people and politicial parties with whom you disagree? lol

Every comment you make has to have the term teabaggers or something similar. Does that make you more intelligent in your mind? LOL Does it give your argument more foundation?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Nov 6, 2010, at 1:44 AM

Come on news.. get off the whole Bush is a war criminal issue... CONGRESS signed off on the whole intelligence gathering techniques at the time they were approved... LOL If you are going to prosecute Bush, then Pelosi and every other DEMOCRAT and republican Congress person that read the techniques and their uses would also have to be prosecuted. LOL I know I know... liberal hypocrisy

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Nov 6, 2010, at 1:41 AM

RR3: You have to forgive Nanadot... she is like the leftists in DC that are always apologizing for America. No nation is perfect and no one is or has said America is or was perfect. HOWEVER, when our President and top cabinet members allow the UN Human Rights commission to 'investigate' America when that committee is made of of the likes of China and a whole bunch of nations with HORRIBLE and SEVERE human rights problems then all you can say is this administration is completely out in left field with no grasp on reality.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Nov 6, 2010, at 1:38 AM

rr,

I thought are differences were just political but your runs deeper which is intolerance. Allah does mean god and we have the same one just differences in our teachings. May Allah(God) have pity on you for your hypocrisy. Hypocrisy is the worst sin that a being can have.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Sat, Nov 6, 2010, at 12:10 AM

rr3yv0

So you mean all those bills passed by Congress and signed by Bush between 2006 and 2008 were not good examples of "cooperation" by Democrats?

I think your boys, the conservatives, have no plans and no answers and your boys are trying to avoid the leadership role they were elected to.

I don't think the flip/flop voters will be so forgiving of your boys in the next election.

I think your boy Lil' Boehner and his pals have 2 years before they disapear into a political void.

I think that is the way it is mate.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Nov 5, 2010, at 11:51 PM

cheesehead

I live in a suburb populated almost entirely of Muslims and I have for many years now.

They are good neighbors, good citizens, are generous and kind, and we are very happy to have so many Muslims in our Suburb.

Its sad that there are so many in America who refuse to tolerate the religious beliefs of others. They are so sure their religion and their creed is the correct one when in fact there is no more testable, repeatable, observable evidence to support their religious beliefs than anybody elses religious beliefs.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Nov 5, 2010, at 11:36 PM

No taxedpayer praying to God is fine but Allah is not God.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Nov 5, 2010, at 11:17 PM

rr3,

Um, you said "Can you say M.U.S.L.I.M. Can you pray to A.L.L.A.H. Then freedom lost!" Sounds like you're saying if people pray to God the result is: freedom is lost. Is that not what you meant to say?

-- Posted by taxedpayer on Fri, Nov 5, 2010, at 11:07 PM

Seems to me cheesehead you have a problem with Rush not me. What does Allah meaning God have to do with anything?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Nov 5, 2010, at 10:55 PM

rr,

I'm Muslim so what your saying is that were automatically enemies. Are your really sure this is what you meant to say or are just repeating Rush Limbaugh. Allah means god is you havent figured this out by now. Now we know your true colors by the statement you just made.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Fri, Nov 5, 2010, at 10:43 PM

"I love this theory that the Democrats lost because of low turnout. If your voters love you and know you're in trouble, they turn out to vote for you. If they don't, the problem is you, not the voters." -Rush

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Nov 5, 2010, at 10:33 PM

I agree with Jo.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Nov 5, 2010, at 10:33 PM

I would like to know why a lot of people on this blog,think the election was anything but the Electorate did not get out and Vote! It proved only one thing to me! When 44% of Democrats didn't bother to participate ,Why? I think the reason lies in the feeling of hopelessness in the Young! Obama let us all down when he didn't start with reworking the way things are done in the Capital! limiting the Strategist , the Constitutional Lawyers,the Speech Writers, half of our Representatives,half of the Congress, half of the Senators, get the lobbing Groups out Completely! A redo of our Voting System with the popular Vote! Go to the Majority Vote,51% on any bill! Eliminate the filibuster all together! And there is a hell of a lot of nonsense that could be eliminated, go through the list! This is what the People wanted when they said they wanted Change,in my Opinion. ???

-- Posted by Jo on Fri, Nov 5, 2010, at 10:26 PM

Wtf be specific? If we keep appeasing our enemies our enemies will control us. Can you say M.U.S.L.I.M. Can you pray to A.L.L.A.H. Then freedom lost!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Nov 5, 2010, at 9:55 PM

When a Democrat say they want to work with it really means we can work together as long as you agree with me(the Democrat that is). Isn't that the way it works news?

If it is a Republican idea then the Democrats water it down so now we have failed policies they can blame on the Republicans. Thats the way it is.

Have you ever had a Democrat take the blame for anything?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Nov 5, 2010, at 9:51 PM

rr

I have been very critical of a number of the policies of the Democrats and Obama.

1.) I have been critical of their economic policies. Obama has attempted to use a way too watered down version of Keynesian Economic Theory. It has never been enough or properly applied. I have advocated an immediate return to a modern version of the WPA and the CCC rebuilding America's infrastructure.

2.) I have been very critical of Obama's foreign policy. I believe he should have ended both wars on the first day of his Presidency, and he should have begun to withdrawl all our troops from those 2 Nations that day.

3.) I have been very critical of Obama's continued use of American Rendition policies and maintaining secret CIA prisons abroad.

4.) I have been very critical of the Obama Administration and the Democratic parties failure to launch a grand jury investigation into Title 18 and Title 50 violations that may have been committed by Bush and members of his administration. There certainly is enough evidence already to justify a grand jury investigation...at the very least.

...and I have been very critical of quite a number of policies of the Democrats and Obama and I will continue to be critical of them.

However, the House Leadership is now Republican and the Senate is almost evenly split. Obama has made it clear he will be happy to work closely with the Republican Leadership in the New House of Reps.

So what I and millions of other voters and tax payers want to know is...what is the new plan? So far the Republican leadership in the House hasn't been too specific. In fact, they don't seem to have a plan at all.

So what is the plan?

It would be at least helpful if they could layout the specifics of their plans -- and a timeline -- and tell us how they plan to get these plans manifested into reality.

Ya know mate, 2 years passes very quickly and We the People don't want excuses from the newly elected Teabagger-Republicans.

We expect results!

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Nov 5, 2010, at 8:44 PM

rr3yvo,

Could you be a little more specific about how freedoms will be lost because of so called "Democratic Appeasement"?

BTW, the perception of yelling does nothing to bolster your arguement. Could it be that your lashing out because have no arguement at all?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Nov 5, 2010, at 8:36 PM

You tell me cheesehead.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Nov 5, 2010, at 8:17 PM

Cheesehead,

You claim that Fox News is not a real news organization why do you think they should have the same code of ethics as NBC(real news organization)? Kind of a double standard on your part don't ya think?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Nov 5, 2010, at 8:16 PM

WTF,

ALL OF THEM!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Nov 5, 2010, at 8:08 PM

News if the Australian government is giving the homeless $300 a week why are they still homeless?

I have the solution stop giving them $300 a week. If I was a taxpayer in Australia I would hate for that burden to be forced upon me.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Nov 5, 2010, at 8:04 PM

Hey Teabaggers,

...maybe they didn't tell you guys the rules in politics 101.

Ya see, when you are the majority you are in a leadership role.

Now you actually have to do something.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Nov 5, 2010, at 4:08 PM

News maybe you should have told Obama and the Democrats that the last 2 years!! You think!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Nov 5, 2010, at 8:00 PM

Outsider,

I guess it doesnt matter that lots of people could afford there homes, but lost their jobs under republican control. Didnt Bush also interfere in the free market along with Dodd and Frank with the bailouts. I thought that was a no no to the right. I get it as long as you are conservative or a republican then its ok to expand government and increase the deficit, because under Bush government expanded and so the size of government. Don't forget Republicans sent this country downward so how exactly will they turn it around?

-- Posted by cheesehead on Fri, Nov 5, 2010, at 7:54 PM

Bush wanted Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac audited, but the Dems in control at the time, specifically Barney Fwank and Chris Dodd, said it was fine and to butt out. We now see who was right and who was wrong there. I'm thinking it was Dodd who gave us this bit of wisdom (and I paraphrase).."the Republicans are trying to limit home ownership to those who can afford it"

-- Posted by outsider on Fri, Nov 5, 2010, at 7:29 PM

Cheese,

Thanks for explaining that lol lol...

I think you have their "plan" pretty well figured out mate lol lol lol...

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Nov 5, 2010, at 7:17 PM

I hope all the Teabaggers out there don't forget that when Pres Bush was in office he created more government jobs than any president in the last 40-50 years. I didnt hear you guys complaining about big governemnt then. Obama is actually cutting public sector jobs.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Fri, Nov 5, 2010, at 6:09 PM

News,

Your not the only one who is asking what the republicans are going to do? Every newstation out is trying to find this out and they have nothing but talking points. Some say repeal Obamacare! Some say give tax cuts to rich!Some say lower taxes but they wont give examples of what they want to cut. Nothing at all except what they been doing which is blocking votes. Also in the pledge to America they state they want to repeal Obamacare and then add most of it back to law.So basically they want to do the same with health care but dont want Obama to get credit for it.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Fri, Nov 5, 2010, at 6:06 PM

Ya know fellas...I think I might owe you conservatives and middle of the roaders who put the Republicans into the leadership of Congress an apology.

Yeah...I think I do.

I apologize for asking what the Teabagger/conservative/Republican leadership in the Congress plans for solving our Nation's problems are.

How dare I ask such a thing!

I also apologize to the middle-of-the-roaders, or as I like to call them, the flip/flop voters, for asking them why they helped the neocon/teabagger/conservative/Republicans put a Party into power without knowing what that party's plans are.

How dare I ask such a thing!

I guess I will just have to wait to find out what the plans of our leadership in Congress are when they come up with some.

Until then I guess we have no idea what direction we are going.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Nov 5, 2010, at 5:38 PM

JHH,

"Research shows that losing one's job can have a "powerful and negative impact" on the health of the jobless, leading to feelings of failure, depression, anxiety, notably increasing the risks of strokes, heart attacks and catastrophic illnesses, and potentially leading to premature mortality." http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/05...

Is this what you mean by 'sick' and 'lazy'?

-- Posted by Divergent Thinker on Fri, Nov 5, 2010, at 5:16 PM

outsider

Well no I never said Obama had 4 years...I said we gave him 2 years and then gave the House back to the Republicans who created the problems we expected Obama to fix in 2 years. And while the Dems have been the majority in the House for 4 years, I must point out that even solving the problems the Republicans created in 8 years of full control of the White House in 4 years is really not realistic.

But I agree that the majority of those folks that actually got out and voted disagree with Obama's approach. I disagree with him and the Democrats approach also. In fact, I don't think either party has the right approach. That is why I support the Democratic Socialists. Perhaps its time we should give third parties a chance...eh mate? Rather than doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

But anyway, I am anxious to hear the Teabagger/Republican plans. I am all ears! Tell me how they plan to solve our economic problems, how they plan to get those bills through the Senate and past the President, and please give us all a time-line so we can have some idea when to expect results.

I don't think either major party has those answers mate.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Nov 5, 2010, at 4:40 PM

JHH,

Yes we have socialized healthcare.

Some years ago though, the Australian conservatives empty out our hospitals of mental patients making them "out patients." Now they live on the streets.

Australians don't seem to mind people with disabilities or folks who are seeking employment living in their neighborhoods...if they even know they are there. Frankly, most Australians seem to mind their own business and I don't know how they would know what their neighbors circumstances are with out asking them. I don't know of any Australians that inquire about their neighbors personal affairs.

Entitiled under our laws mate. Entitled because the Australian People say they are entitled. Entitled because helping the poor is what the Australian People regard as the right thing to do.

No the dole and unemployment insurance are 2 different things in Australia. Australian States do offer unemployment insurance payment benefits just as we do in America. However, the Dole, unlike unemployment benefits, only ceases when the person finds work. As to encouraging them to find work, everyone on the dole here who is medically able to work is required to provide documention from employers from whom they have sought jobs to our government and they do it on a bi-weekly basis. Yes Australia wants the ablebodied recipients to find work just as we do in America and like America we have mechanisims that encourage employment.

What we are doing here is making sure the homeless have the tools they need to make their lives better. However, all we can do is make these social programs available to them. We are working on reversing the policies put into place by the conservatives when they were in charge of the Government here, and getting those amongst the homeless who need to be treated in a hospital back into the hospital.

So what are you Teabaggers doing about our homeless in America? So far I haven't heard your plan. What is it?

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Nov 5, 2010, at 4:29 PM

I am totally confused, why would anyone of sound mind 'choose' to be homeless? But then again I never understood how a group of people would 'hate our freedom' (anyone of sound mind would never hate freedom)And surely any decent family (especially a Christian family) would feel nothing but compassion for the sick living near them. The term 'lazy' reflects more of the writer's bias than anything else. If you research the unemployment benefits of many other countries, especially the progressive Scandinavian countries, you will find that benefits do not run out and there is a reason for that. If people have no money they can get sick, resort to crime or die which ends up costing the rest of us. Vilifying the unemployed and homeless by implying they are 'lazy' might make people feel better about their own miserable lives for a few minutes but the reality is that they don't go away and their plight is the responsibility of all of us in civilized society.

-- Posted by Divergent Thinker on Fri, Nov 5, 2010, at 4:22 PM

Let's see. In the great "people have spoken" mandate election of 2006, the Dems took control of BOTH houses. So while they're busy whining "we've only had 2 years", they've actually had 4. Now the Repubs are expected to fix things even though they only control 1 house. Obama and his fellow lefties would do well to finally admit that a lot of the country doesn't like their ideas. I actually think the pressure is on them to show that they recognize this and move slightly towards center. They all, especially the Chosen One, want to be re-elected in 2012 and I'm betting they'll be feeling a little jelly-legged when they watch so many of their cronies cleaning out their offices in January.

-- Posted by outsider on Fri, Nov 5, 2010, at 4:21 PM

Hey Teabaggers,

...maybe they didn't tell you guys the rules in politics 101.

Ya see, when you are the majority you are in a leadership role.

The good old days when all you had to do was blame Obama and the Democrats for not solving the problems the conservatives created under Bush fast enough and the fun days of just saying "No!" are over.

Now you actually have to do something.

So lets see that leadership. What are your specific plans to solve our Nation's problems? Specifically how will your plans solve the problems -- and give us a time line too. When will we see the results of your plans? Then tell us how you plan to get those bills through the Senate and how you will get the President's signature on the bills.

Inquiring voters want to know!!

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Nov 5, 2010, at 4:08 PM

inthemiddle

C;early you weren't watching very closely during the Bush Administration. He refused to allow anyone from his administration to testify in front of Congress.

If their were hearings on civil rights violations by the Bush Administration, they sure didn't get far with out the witnessess testimony.

But frankly, I don't remember a single Congressional hearing during Bush's tenure in which he was investigated for this or any civil rights violations.

...and now he admits he order the torture in direct violation of our law and still the American People do nothing in the face of his crimes.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Nov 5, 2010, at 3:44 PM

john henry's hammer

As in the USA, Judges in Australia are entitled to be called "Your Honor, Judge, or Sir.

The case you refer to is the case where the defendent was warned by the Judge to refer to him in a form that is consistant with our laws.

...and yep 3 times he ignored the judges ruling...and then he was held in contempt by the Court...mate...and rightly so.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Nov 5, 2010, at 3:36 PM

rr3yv0

Yes we have homelessness here too...a result of the former Republican equivalient in Australia moving all our mental patients out of mental hospitals...thanks conservatives!

Unlike the USA, we are doing something about it. All homeless in Australia receive $300 a week in cash from our Government...and that is until they find a job -- no cutoff point.

Unlike the USA, our homeless are entitled to full medical care at no cost to the patient. We have socialized medicine so all our people are covered for medical expenses including our homeless.

Unlike the USA, our homeless are entitled to an apartment paid for by the Government. Unlike the USA, our "public housing" are very nice apartments in good neighborhoods. Many of the homeless here choose to remain with out an apartment -- its a side effect of many of the mental illnesses they suffer from.

But rr, Australia is clearly doing something about its homeless...unlike the Teabaggers in the USA who apparently no idea of what even the first step is in addressing homelessness.

What are you conservatives doing about homelessness in America? I am an American voter and tax payer and I want to know what you conservatives plan to do about homelessness in America.

Inquiring voters want to know!!

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Nov 5, 2010, at 3:32 PM

How about this? Keith Olbermann has been suspended for making contributions to 3 Democratic candidates. It violates NBC"S code of ethics. Also Hannity donates 10,000 to Michelle Bachmans campaign, but Fox doesnt have a code of ethics!

http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Fri, Nov 5, 2010, at 3:09 PM

rr3yvo,

What freedoms will be lost because of "Democratic Appeasement"?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Nov 5, 2010, at 1:48 PM

Homelessness in Australia

Each day nearly 1 in every 200 Australians is homeless

http://www.homelessnessaustralia.org.au/...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Nov 5, 2010, at 1:45 PM

Good news there were 150,00 new jobs added to the private sector in October which is more than predicted and weekly wages improved more than any period since the recession started. The Republicans cant say this trend started under their watch so they have to stick to just saying no and obstructing progress.

http://money.cnn.com/2010/11/05/news/eco...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Fri, Nov 5, 2010, at 12:49 PM

Do you think, just maybe, that the Carlyle Group is some how involved in this furtive move by the Pentagon? http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/penta...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Nov 5, 2010, at 11:19 AM

Local weather: Hot, and getting hotter. An occasional bitter wind, gusting rather than sustained.

Short periods of torpor are a part of long range projections.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Nov 5, 2010, at 10:41 AM

So, about that union job security.

Given that the Machinists' is the same union that thought Boeing was bluffing about moving to South Carolina last year, ya just gotta wonder if there's any correlation between the union's job performance as a union and the newly formed Union of Unemployed...

http://www.redstate.com/laborunionreport...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Nov 5, 2010, at 6:56 AM

Democratic appeasement will cost us our freedom.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Nov 5, 2010, at 6:53 AM

No evidence? How many investigations were held in the GW Bush administration for rights violations, real or perceived? What about investigations into rights vilations in both the Reagan and first Bush? How about the entire Nixon administration? I never said the smack wasn't deserved. I just noted the Democtats are treated differently by the AMerican people.

-- Posted by inthemiddle on Fri, Nov 5, 2010, at 5:59 AM

No Phill, I guess am just not that smart, but then I never claimed to be the sharpest tool in the barn.

Anyway, as I said when this topic began, inthemiddle's statement that the general public "smacks the Republican's" when they commit civil rights violations is not supported by the evidence.

OH and thanks for giving the President and the Democrats 2 whole years to correct 8 years of neo-classical economic policy of the Republican Party that resulted in the current deflationary period.

The part that is really difficult to understand -- besides your clearly generous nature of giving the Dems 2 whole years to clean up the Republicans' mess -- and I mean really hard to understand -- is this; what exactly is the logic behind putting the Party that caused the deflationary period back into power?

That just doesn't make a bit of sense to me.

Exactly what do you think that will accomplish?

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Nov 5, 2010, at 5:43 AM

News,

Sorry, I thought you would understand that when I said having a vote and an angry voice, that you would realize that I was smart enough to know the only way I could use my angry voice to our government was by writing to or actually speaking to our representatives. As far as getting the word out to other folks, hopefully some read this blog.

-- Posted by Philemon on Fri, Nov 5, 2010, at 4:28 AM

Cheesehead,

Really getting tired of you calling me a right winger. You are so blinded by your own views that anyone who disagrees with anything you say must be a right winger. Are 71 percent of Missourians right wingers because they agree with me that Obamacare was bad and needed voted against? Ike must be a right winger since I've supported him all these years. You claim Blunt is my friend? I ranked that race right up there with our last several presidential races where I had trouble stomaching either candidate. Even though I thought I'd made up my mind before entering my polling place, I probably spent more time staring at those two names before marking one than I spent on the remainder of the ballot.

To continue your discussion from the front page, you said Fox News wouldn't report about the jobs. I thought you were probably right till I googled "fox news private sector jobs." Try it. I'm sure you will be surprised. I went to the fox news website for the first time in my life (I think, I could have followed a link from here before) and found the following quotes:

"Private companies added 64,000 new jobs in September..."

"Analysts Predict Private Sector Job Gains in September, Higher Unemployment Rate"

"Both June and July's figures were revised Friday to show the private sector created more jobs in both months."

(I would have posted the links, but apparently I'm too sleepy to make that work tonight. These were 3 of the top 4 results. The other was more about federal jobs but had the keywords in it.)

Note, I'm still not saying FOX is a good source or even that it is better than most sources. Your abc news site was probably a better source, but it didn't even agree with that far left site you quoted earlier. The remainder of those Fox articles could be totally bogus for all I know. I'm simply pointing out that you said they wouldn't report on it, and apparently they did.

-- Posted by Philemon on Fri, Nov 5, 2010, at 4:14 AM

A little bit of the raw side of Marshall's history. http://books.google.com/books?id=XzHVqJV...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Nov 5, 2010, at 2:01 AM

1,000 homeless under Vegas streets:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...

...and that is just Vegas...

Well What are you conservatives going to do about this now that you control the House?

...or don't you think our economy and our people matter?

Let's all hear the big plan. Inquiring voters want to know!

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Nov 5, 2010, at 1:51 AM

Phill there is a lot more you could do and do right now.

You could write our you new Rep and the new Speaker of the House and demand they investigate the admission of G.W. Bush in his book that indeed he did order waterboarding...which is torture under the Geneva Conventions and thus actionable under Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 118 of Federal Acts.

You could also get the word out to other folks...friends and family...and ask that they too write our new Reps and new Speaker and demand an Congressional investigation of Bush's ordering torture in direct violation of our law.

You don't need to be a policeman or a lawyer or a judge to do those things mate.

...or maybe you believe Presidents are above the law...and maybe you believe only Republican Presidents who you voted for are above the law.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Nov 5, 2010, at 12:54 AM

Conservative scholars rank Nancy Pelosi as one of the greatest Speakers of the House of Representatives. (misanthropes, misogynists, and malcontents may disregard) http://www.aolnews.com/politics/article/...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Nov 4, 2010, at 11:59 PM

Philemon said this:

"..."We the People" yelled for help by voting in Obama. He answered by ignoring what the people wanted which in this case was an investigation. He has kept ignoring what "We the People" wanted for almost 2 years now, thus the election results."

That's a concise assessment of the matter, Philemon. It's too bad that Obama didn't follow through, or, maybe that was never his intention. He now impresses me as being just one of the crowd, and I feel an inordinate sense of disappointment/disenchantment, perhaps even despair.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Nov 4, 2010, at 11:14 PM

Phil,

We the People must mean us right wingers, so you dont care that you will be taxed to repeal healthcare. If I remember right the CBO states health care reform will reduce the deficit. If John McCain would have been president we would be in three wars right now. How come its ok to bankrupt the country for wars, but yet the dems create a stimulus to invest in this country and its a bad thing. Um stimulus and healthcare vs more wars it seems we made the right choice. Your friend Roy Blunt was at every Ribbon cutting cereomony he could be at thanks to the stimulus he seemed to like some of the things this money was spent on. Most would rather be overtaxed for healthcare if this was the case.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Thu, Nov 4, 2010, at 10:58 PM

Uh News,

I'm not a policeman, lawyer, judge, or any kind of elected official - kind of like most of "We the People." I am a citizen with a vote and an angry voice of which I have used both, as have you. That doesn't mean that it is ok for anyone to break the law, but I personally have done all that I legally can about it. Kind of like when I saw someone vandalizing the Girl Scout Cabin at the park once. The group I was with yelled, called the police, but the vandals got away. To extend the analogy, "We the People" yelled for help by voting in Obama. He answered by ignoring what the people wanted which in this case was an investigation. He has kept ignoring what "We the People" wanted for almost 2 years now, thus the election results.

Cheesehead,

What do I want to change? Read the above. It would be nice if he would listen rather than just claim we are uneducated enough to know what we should want. Missouri said no resoundingly to his healthcare. As far as taxes on the rich, I'm really undecided. I can see how trickle down is supposed to work, but I have trouble trusting the rich to spend the extra money to make new jobs rather than just put it in their pockets. I suppose I'd only really worry about it most if my employer gets taxed so much that he has to fire me, and I don't really see that happening. I saw a book by Savage at Walmart tonight called "Trickle up Poverty." I thought the title was cute, but wouldn't trust a word in it knowing the author.

-- Posted by Philemon on Thu, Nov 4, 2010, at 10:46 PM

Uh Phil,

We the People did not investigate, have hearings, or look into Bush's violations of Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 118 -- War Crimes of which tortures are a violation of == to which he admits fully in his book -- either.

Does that mean its ok for the President to break the law and not even have an investigation into the matter?

An election in which Bush was not even running and which punished only his Party for a short 2 year period is not at all the kind of process that punishes the criminal for his crime as prescribed by the specific law which he broke. Nor does it make clear to future Presidents that they are not above the law. In fact, the inaction of our Nation to act upon these multiple violations of the law by a president has set the opposite precident.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Nov 4, 2010, at 9:22 PM

Phil,

What is it exactly do you want to change? You are just repeating the Right wing talking points! If you follow along those lines you will prob say repeal health care reform and pass tax cuts for rich! It would add billions to the defict to do this, so we would be in more debt. If you say that you want the parties to work together more well thats on the right, because they set a record number of filabusters. There will be no change unless the Republicans want to cooperate to get something done.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Thu, Nov 4, 2010, at 9:17 PM

I don't like to post this many times in a row usually, but I just almost passed out from something I heard on the news just as I posted that last comment. Bill Maher said he was alarmed that the most popular baby name (I think in either England or Europe) was now Mohammed. He claimed that he said that because he believed in Western values that most Muslims don't. He was then asked if he thought he would be fired by NPR for saying that if he worked for them. He said probably.

-- Posted by Philemon on Thu, Nov 4, 2010, at 8:06 PM

News,

Bush wasn't thrown in jail, but his party was beat down. Remember the last election? That is one thing that is great about this country. Our government ticked us off so we overthrew it, peacefully. Tuesday, the first step was taken for the next peaceful overthrow. If Obama and the Democrats want 6 more years rather than only 2, things had better change.

Or, to use some of your words, "We the People" didn't allow things to continue the way they were under Bush by electing Obama. Now, "We the People" have spoken again that things won't be allowed to continue the way they are going now either.

-- Posted by Philemon on Thu, Nov 4, 2010, at 7:58 PM

"Grayson: Democratic 'appeasement' cost us the election"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/grays...

...and they do it almost every chance they get...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Nov 4, 2010, at 6:13 PM

Not going to argue with you about whether we are a democracy or not, beyond telling you that you are in error, and should do further research. One tip however, Google forms of democracy. It would be pointless to argue your opinion as further expressed. You of course are free to do as you will. At least to some degree.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Nov 4, 2010, at 6:01 PM

inthemiddle,

"**** right' I personally ordered waterboarding: Bush"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/****-...

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/40012221/n...

We now have it in Republican President George W. Bush's words that he violted Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 118, Section 2441, "war Crimes," of Federal Acts.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc...

When was he investigated for the torture? When was he brought to account for breaking our laws?

You say." In those emergency situations, whenever Republicans overstep civil rights they get smacked back into place by the public;"

When did this happen under the Bush Administration?

When did we "smack" him down for torture in violation of Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 118, Section 2441 of Federal Acts?

Where is the investigation? Where are the cries of outrage from the general public? Where are the Fox News Panels urging the new Congress begin serious hearings to look into this matter?

Yeah...you think the American People "smack down" those Republicans when they get out of line.

I don't see it.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Nov 4, 2010, at 5:33 PM

"Exposed: Pentagon awards $630M fuel contract to secretive corporation whose ownership is unknown"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/penta...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Nov 4, 2010, at 5:17 PM

Oklahmoma Reader. Our democracy is not dying because we are not a democracy. We are a REPUBLIC as in "..and to the republic for which it stands." The Republic may not be doing well but I suspect it will recover.

Similar arguments were made in the 1800s. When Grover Cleveland was elected the Republicans were is such disarray it was predicted that the Republicans would be non-exsistent in 2 years. Four years later the Republicans returned in such large numbers it was the Democrats who were predicted to be dying. Four years later Democrats were back.

Oh and for those predicting a future Republican dictatorship, look at history. In those emergency situations, whenever Republicans overstep civil rights they get smacked back into place by the public; when Democrats abuse civil rights, the public response is often that it is a necessary evil, doing it for our own good.

-- Posted by inthemiddle on Thu, Nov 4, 2010, at 4:40 PM

Cheesehead I don't know that we can trust any of them Dems or Repubs but only time will tell. You know news might be right we shall see.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Nov 4, 2010, at 4:25 PM

"China's Hu Jintao passes Obama as most powerful man in world."

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/11/04/for...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Nov 4, 2010, at 4:12 PM

Well the next 6 years should be interesting.

I predict the Republicans will make our current economic disaster much, much worse. In fact, I think in 2012 the majority will foolish put a Republican in the White House and the Republicans will take the Senate -- giving them full control of all 3 branches of government.

Not long after that, I predict the bottom will completely fall out of the American economy, the Republican Congress will approve a modified Republican dictatorship in the White House under the guise of "emergency powers," and the USA will never be the same again. The Republican dictator will then begin ruling by decree thus bypassing Congress in most cases. Life in America will become very hard, freedom as we know it will be gone, and I predict I will be very happy I don't have to live there under the coming draconian laws the Republicans will create.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Nov 4, 2010, at 4:04 PM

It looks to me that the Republicans have pushed back at the moderates in their party or maybe they just changed their positions to benefit their own party. An example of this was John Mccain wasnt he moving towards the middle during his election bid. Next thing we know he stands for nothing he did in the past, so how do we know which Republicans we can believe and which ones we cant? Did anyone else notice this pattern?

-- Posted by cheesehead on Thu, Nov 4, 2010, at 3:38 PM

Compromise is never easy. The country was founded as a result of the refusal to compromise (with the British) and the need to compromise (with each other). And that tension between refusal and reluctant cooperation seems to be with us still.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Thu, Nov 4, 2010, at 12:40 PM

Sounds like Cesca is suffering from the agony of defeat.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Nov 4, 2010, at 12:40 PM

I agree news we need to compromise but most in Washington look at compromise as you agreeing with me or vice versa. No middle ground.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Nov 4, 2010, at 12:34 PM

Cesca, so bleak, so true. Thanks.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Nov 3, 2010, at 11:04 PM

Uh folks...

...While we are all bickering our Nation is suffering from enormous problems.

I believe we are really all going to have to start making some compromises and work together or our Nation may be in for some seriously bad times...

Our Nation has voted and the People exercised Their Will. That is democracy in action and the system worked.

So now the Republicans are leading the House of Representives. I suggest we give them a chance. Let's hear their ideas and then let them tell us how they will make their bills into law.

In 2 years we will see where we are at and if we really want to continue down the conservative direction at that time.

Until then, its only fair that we respect the will of the People and give the Republicans a chance to succeed. If their plans work then we will all be better off. But if they don't work, the Republican Party will be in serious trouble in 2012.

Congradulations to the Republican Party and our posters who were supporting them on your winning the House of Representitives! Good luck fellas...you are really going to need it...lol.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Nov 3, 2010, at 10:16 PM

The reasoning in the commentary I linked to in my previous post is flawed. It is true that more progressive Democrats survived the purge yesterday than did Blue Dog Democrats. That is no reason for progressives to crow.

The commentary fails to consider the reason that many of the Blue Dogs were there at all. They were in Congress because of Howard Dean's mission to spread the Democrat's effort into every state, and to leave behind the party's policy of focusing its efforts on so called blue states.

Many of them would have not even won the Democratic primary in those moderate to conservative states had they adopted other than blue dog positions in their campaigns.

While Dean's policy was successful in getting more Democrat's elected to congress. It did nothing for cohesiveness of purpose. The Democrats majority was a faux majority. Enough of those elected under Dean's broaden the scope theory were more like Republicans, and did not vote with their party on many issues. Some in their reelection bids even pledged to work against Nancy Pelosi remaining in her leadership position.

The Democrats need to rethink their strategy. It does not advance the party's agenda to promote the election of Republicans who wear a Democrat cloak.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Nov 3, 2010, at 8:31 PM

Why Democrats must be Democrats, not Republican Lite: http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2010...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Nov 3, 2010, at 6:29 PM

And yes Philemon, Obama's declaration also reminded me of Bush's declaration. I didn't know whether to laugh scornfully, or grieve, so I did both.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Nov 3, 2010, at 4:28 PM

And just why is it that we can't even agree to agree regarding the topics upon which we agree? That is nuts.

The wars should be ended. Get out of there, bring our people home. If we couldn't accomplish our goals in ten years, we are not going to accomplish them.

Our democracy is dying for the lack of election reform. Our only hope is to accomplish that.

The majority agree with both. We the people can accomplish that. Why do we not focus our accord, and work together to accomplish just those two things?

What a difference it would make for our nation.

Nope, we are stupid, or perhaps it is mass insanity? We would rather alleviate our frustration by taking it out on each other.

Does the corporatocracy have us where they want us, or not?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Nov 3, 2010, at 4:24 PM

Something to keep in mind if Sarah Palin runs for office again and that's the Palin work ethic. We all know that Sarah quit as Alaska's governor with for no valid reason. Now her daughter Bristol seems upset that she hasn't been voted off of DWTS yet.

I guess she thought, as her mother did about being governor that everything should be handed to them. Bristol said in the post show interview:

"I'm exhausted and I want to go home."

I guess the cub doesn't stray far from the momma grizzly.

Don't take the job if your not willing to do the work.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Nov 3, 2010, at 4:03 PM

rr3,

I believe your were actually talking to WTF when you said "True Irag started with Bush but Obama campaigned to end the wars. Is that happening? Would you give a Republican the same leeway you give the Democrats?" I hate to generalize, but I think everyone here, especially from the left, and even more especially Oklahoma Reader, has said they want the wars over. They do blame Bush for starting them, but have been very critical of Obama for continuing them.

Is it just me, or did the declaration by Obama that the war was over in Iraq remind anyone else of that "Mission Accomplished" banner?

-- Posted by Philemon on Wed, Nov 3, 2010, at 3:35 PM

rr3yvo,

I don't know. Will concede that Bush,Cheney and Rumsfeld are war criminals? That's all that really matters anyway.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Nov 3, 2010, at 3:04 PM

rr3 said this:

"...A lot of people that I have talked with will be experiencing increased in their health care premiums. We were told this wouldn't happen were we not?..."

and then rr3 contradicted himself with this:

"...Seems the results of this election are already being attacked and they are not yet in office. Are you assuming the worst?"

ME: I have no great expectations that anything positive will happen, but I'm siding with Philemon and hoping that MAYBE the two sides will stop acting like grade schoolers and seriously work at getting something done for a change.

What is it about the American psyche that permits this horse crap to continue in perpetuum?

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Nov 3, 2010, at 2:42 PM

Wtf some of the credit card reform was good but they have found ways around it. I still get 2-3 credit offers per week in the mail but I refuse to be a slave to the credit industry. I don't have any. That's my credit card solution. As for the health care what is coming is not good. A lot of people that I have talked with will be experiencing increased in their health care premiums. We were told this wouldn't happen were we not? I alson recall that the GOP input was not needed for health reform. Would you consider Republican solutions if you heard them or just automatically assume they are no good?

Like I told okr this post would be a lot better if the comments didn't include personal attacks. Ok buddy. I don't think I am the one spinning. True Irag started with Bush but Obama campaigned to end the wars. Is that happening? Would you give a Republican the same leeway you give the Democrats? Seems the results of this election are already being attacked and they are not yet in office. Are you assuming the worst?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Nov 3, 2010, at 1:50 PM

Phil: You hit the nail on it's head! there will be no agreeing, on any polices that amounts to anything, Conservatives or Liberals! We are broke! I have always said that they have to start with changing the way Washington operates entirely. And it still stands! Get the Money out of the Whitehouse,& Congress the entire Political system!

-- Posted by Jo on Wed, Nov 3, 2010, at 1:43 PM

But okr you are the one that said others on the right have the same problem. Is that an assumption? I don't recall putting words in your mouth I trust that you are very capable of that yourself. Most of the time on these post since we don't have the benefit of audio to detect voice inflection it is very hard to detect nuance, sarcasm, comedy or the conviction of the poster because of what is written. Sorry that I can not always pick up on the meaning of your post and sorry if I unintentionally put words in your mouth. I can only try to conform to the standards expected of me.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Nov 3, 2010, at 1:22 PM

I don't suppose that some of you will ever realize why I ignore much of what you say. I regret that I rose to the bait of your smart aleck jab JHH. Won't happen again.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Nov 3, 2010, at 12:46 PM

Perhaps not a reasonable question JHH? Would you concede that?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Nov 3, 2010, at 12:43 PM

To my fellow posters from the right side of the political spectrum:

I am not News Across, nor NanaDot, I am me, and I do not hold every opinion that they do. On the same point rr3 you are not Xray, or JHH. You do not all hold the same opinions.

I have noted an increasing tendency by you on the right to not be able to recognize nuance, to assume that we to the left of you all hold the same opinions, on everything. Compounding that tendancy you (as I have started calling to your attention) erroneously put words in my mouth, and the mouths of others, then argue with the words you have assigned, calling out others for what you have said. Do you have any idea how ludicrous that is?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Nov 3, 2010, at 11:18 AM

We the People don't want excuses -- we want action...now end our economic problems and solve all our National and State problems...the clock is ticking and I still don't see you Teabaggers doing anything.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Nov 2, 2010, at 7:35 PM

Is this a rational statement considering the last 2 years? We have had 2 years with poor or no results but now you want results yesterday. Really? Can you say H.Y.P.O.C.R.I.S.Y.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Nov 3, 2010, at 11:13 AM

Well okr maybe you need to tell me in simpler terms what you think or believe since you think I am too stupid to understand the first time. Since all of us on the right have the same problem please explain.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Nov 3, 2010, at 11:03 AM

rr3 you don't have a clue what I think, or believe, despite my many posts. Others on the right have the same problem. One more time:

What you said: " What's funny Okr and News is you are already wanting to blame the teabaggers before they actually take office. You have blamed the last 2 years on Bush. Is Obama responsible for anything or is he just an empty shirt? Have the Democrats been responsible for anything? Is it good that Republicans get elected from time to time so you have a scapegoat? Can you say H.Y.P.O.C.R.I.S.Y."

What I just said a few hours before you made that erroneous comment:

"I think that the only difference the Tea Party will make is to provide us with occasional comic relief.

It remains Congress LLC. Emphasis on the LLC, (Limited Liability Corporation). A W.O.S. (wholly owned subsidiary) of international corporations. The legal department of this wholly owned subsidiary is the Supreme Court of the United States. They answer to the international board of directors which directs funding of the W.O.S.

I pledge allegiance to the swag of the W.O.S.of America, and to the schemes by which it stands.

One aberration, under ground, with misery and injustice for all...but a few.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Nov 3, 2010, at 1:24 AM"

You can continue to speak based on your fabricated opinions of others if you want. You may want to give just a little consideration to actually discussing what they have said, and believe. Guess it just depends on what motivates you to open your mouth, and sound off.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Nov 3, 2010, at 10:53 AM

You've confused me Jo. Today you say they are all the same, Democrats, Republicans, and Teabaggers. I can agree with you there. But yesterday, you wanted everyone, especially young people, to get out and vote Democrat to make a big difference in the next two years.

I think I prefer the way things went yesterday, but not because I like the Republicans or even agree with all of their agenda. I think a split between Congress and the President forces compromise. When either party was totally in charge, they tended to try to cram things down our throats whether we wanted it or not. Case in point, Obamacare. Now they will have to either work together or not get anything done. Hopefully it will be the former and not the latter.

-- Posted by Philemon on Wed, Nov 3, 2010, at 10:41 AM

Get real JHH! We can fire them ,but who do you put in their place? Their all the same!????

-- Posted by Jo on Wed, Nov 3, 2010, at 9:24 AM

The teabaggers and Republicans & Democrats are one in the same. Look for another 10 years of nothing. I really think the American people don't know what they want!And beside who ever has control won't be able to correct things any faster than Obama!The Government is not in charge anyway, big Money is! Until we get someone that's tough enough and resilient enough to clean it up we are exposed to a take over,and then they can put the heads of these people on the block,like Iraq & Germany!That's the only way to change Washington! The people are not sure, and the Ones we have in charge are not tough enough! This Country is doomed, and rightly so! Until Money is out of the picture, and Humanity takes it place!

-- Posted by Jo on Wed, Nov 3, 2010, at 9:17 AM

"American exceptionalism is not that we're better people; it's not that we're any different DNA-wise. It's that the history of the world is oppression, tyranny, and control, and that the United States is the exception because of our founding documents." -Rush

"Our principles are for the express purpose of benefiting everybody because our principles empower individuals to be the best they can be, independent of a Nanny State and a ruling class that view them with contempt." -Rush

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Nov 3, 2010, at 6:55 AM

Obama says he wants to seek common ground with the Rupublicans. Just a week ago he said they could come along for the ride but they needed to stay in the back seat. What changed?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Nov 3, 2010, at 6:24 AM

News you already want a plan from the elect but what was the plan for the last 2 years? Please be specific.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Nov 3, 2010, at 6:21 AM

What's funny Okr and News is you are already wanting to blame the teabaggers before they actually take office. You have blamed the last 2 years on Bush. Is Obama responsible for anything or is he just an empty shirt? Have the Democrats been responsible for anything? Is it good that Republicans get elected from time to time so you have a scapegoat? Can you say H.Y.P.O.C.R.I.S.Y.

Don't forget Obama said the war in Iraq is over so anything that happens over there is still Bush's fault. Come on now.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Nov 3, 2010, at 6:18 AM

DT if you recall the Iraq war is over Obama and the Democrats ended it thats what Obama said anyway.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Nov 3, 2010, at 6:09 AM

At least 57 people were killed, 248 people were injured in 11 car bombs set off in Baghdad today. When are the Republicans who now run the house going to fix up this problem they started???? No point getting elected if you dont do anything.

-- Posted by Divergent Thinker on Wed, Nov 3, 2010, at 3:59 AM

G'day ta you too mate!

That video was definately fairdinkum mate.

Meatloaf rocks!!

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Nov 3, 2010, at 2:17 AM

G'day News. It is a wake for me, awake for you.

As Meatloaf pleaded in a song, when under similar duress, "Let me sleep on it". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZK-FRac7m...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Nov 3, 2010, at 1:31 AM

I think that the only difference the Tea Party will make is to provide us with occasional comic relief.

It remains Congress LLC. Emphasis on the LLC, (Limited Liability Corporation). A W.O.S. (wholly owned subsidiary) of international corporations. The legal department of this wholly owned subsidiary is the Supreme Court of the United States. They answer to the international board of directors which directs funding of the W.O.S.

I pledge allegiance to the swag of the W.O.S.of America, and to the schemes by which it stands.

One aberration, under ground, with misery and injustice for all...but a few.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Nov 3, 2010, at 1:24 AM

Americans Bravely Go To Polls Despite Threat Of Electing Congressional Representatives

http://www.theonion.com/articles/america...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Nov 3, 2010, at 12:43 AM

Oklahoma Reader

Just wait till 2012 and see what progress the Teabaggers have made lol lol lol...

I think the wind will be blowing in another direction in the 2012 election.

Anyway, I am very pleased to be the loyal opposition now lol...look out Teabaggers...now we will be holding YOU responsible for the failures lol lol lol...

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Nov 3, 2010, at 12:37 AM

Wow. I guess the first thing I must do is reread 1984 to look for survival techniques.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Nov 3, 2010, at 12:15 AM

Ok Reader,

Not sure, but I think they poured lots of money into it.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Nov 2, 2010, at 11:33 PM

Cheesehead: Too bad Wisconsinites threw away Feingold to grab Johnson. Whats up with that?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Nov 2, 2010, at 10:42 PM

I guess the Teabaggers who lost will all have jobs working at Fox news soon! They will still be angry and try to project that anger on the viewers while trying to push the country further to the right.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Nov 2, 2010, at 10:16 PM

Ohio: Nazi impersonator Rich Iott lost to incumbent Democrat Marcy Keptur in a tight race. It is comforting to know that at the least Democrats are still favored over Nazis by the voters. Well, at least in this race.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Nov 2, 2010, at 10:07 PM

Oklahoma: Tom Coburn rakes in 70% as he stays in senate. Democrats move from back seat to trunk of vehicle of state. Blue Dog Rep. Dan Boren allowed to ride in back window as long as his head continues to wobble in the right direction.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Nov 2, 2010, at 9:51 PM

Will Missouri have a Skelton in its closet?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Nov 2, 2010, at 9:16 PM

Arkansas: Boozman. Pass the booze man. Blanche Lincoln to get free headache pills from Big Pharma.

Missouri: Not to be blunt, but anyone, but Blunt. Carnagehan edges out independents for distant second.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Nov 2, 2010, at 9:08 PM

Delaware: Ding dong the wicked witch is dead. Christine O'Donnell goes down in flames. We won't have to listen to that CD again.

Kentucky: Rand Paul wins. They'll be stompin all over Kentucky tonight. Expect a Blue moon.

W. Virginia: The state where they turn mountains to mesas. New Senator will follow Byrd tracks.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Nov 2, 2010, at 8:55 PM

Right On Nan!!!!

Oh and to the Teabaggers out there...ok...your up to bat...what's the plan...come on a workable plan...its your shot...what are you waiting for?

You say you can't get any legislation passed? You say its all the Democrats fault?

We the People don't want excuses -- we want action...now end our economic problems and solve all our National and State problems...the clock is ticking and I still don't see you Teabaggers doing anything.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Nov 2, 2010, at 7:35 PM

I am looking forward to my new role as the loyal opposition...lol...

Hey Teabaggers...get used to the following word...

NO!!

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Nov 2, 2010, at 6:27 PM

Philemon

You ask about room in Australia?

Oh sure we have lots of room down here...our Nation is the size of the Continental United States and only has 20 to 22 million people...lol.

Acutally, you can't just hop on a plane and move here...after all Australia is a soverign Nation and has rules about immigration. In fact, Australia is regarded by some as being the 2nd hardest country in the World to emigrate to. You would probably be shocked at the mountain of documentation you have to send them in order to immigrate. Its a long, very expensive process and its a process you go through several times inbetween immigration and citizenship. Its a grueling process.

However, living in Australia is well worth it. Here we have lots of jobs, a booming economy, socialized medicine, and the World's best weather lol...and the best part is, we don't have any teabaggers here lol lol lol...

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Nov 2, 2010, at 5:27 PM

Man, I can't wait for that rapture thing either. Then maybe we can get some peace and quiet with all the Baptists gone.

Funny to say, but I think politics would be much more civilized without religion.

To quote somebody more 'holy' than me:

"Politicians need religion much more than religion needs politicians."

-- Posted by Smart Dog on Tue, Nov 2, 2010, at 3:52 PM

A self-fufilling rapture maybe.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Nov 2, 2010, at 3:49 PM

Although I can see a point to the article cheesehead what about some anti-spending initiatives? I've heard talk of cutting 100 billion but I think there is much more we can do. After the rapture I won't care who you'all vote for.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Nov 2, 2010, at 2:10 PM

john henry,

could you explain how voting no on prop b is good for the future of farmers? I didn't see anything about farmers in this bill.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Nov 2, 2010, at 12:15 PM

Not sure if I agree or not with this article, but its at least worth a look. It explains how some anti-tax ballot initiatives could help destroy the government.

http://www.alternet.org/news/148709/seve...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Nov 2, 2010, at 12:12 PM

As for individual responsibility I can only speak for myself. I cannot force someone or some corporation to be responsible for their actions there can only be guidelines in plact to keep them honest. Just like a padlock or locked door only keeps the honest person out the crook will come in anyway. I am only responsible for my integrity. Integrity is the decision you make when no one is looking.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Nov 2, 2010, at 11:56 AM

Nana I think the only way to move is forward and hopefully learn from the past. We have enjoyed being the richest and freeest country for a long time and it may be time we get knocked down a notch or two we probably deserve it. Lets not tuck our tail and run though. The past is past and we can't change it so move on hopefully learning from it. Maybe we are in a war we don't need to be in lets take action to correct it I see no end no plan for victory. Lets have a plan for victory, execute the plan and come home. We committ our men and women to fight without the end in sight. We have to set goals and plan to achieve them. With God we can do all things.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Nov 2, 2010, at 11:50 AM

Sheesh, John Henry, you been lookin' at my ballot?

-- Posted by Smart Dog on Tue, Nov 2, 2010, at 8:59 AM

Slater,

When I typed the name Ike, I was wondering who would make that quote. I'd actually picked Oklahoma Reader, but you win.

News,

Got any more room down in Australia? Sounds like some hate it here so much that maybe they should join you. Come on people, pick any country in the world and you can find something bad about it's history. I've visited and even lived in several countries around the world and although some were very nice, there is NOWHERE I would rather live than here in America. Everyone should be proud of what we have, work to make it better, and quit complaining about things that happened before anyone still alive was even born.

-- Posted by Philemon on Tue, Nov 2, 2010, at 7:28 AM

Jo

I think you are correct. Getting out the young peoples' vote is important and could turn this entire election.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Nov 2, 2010, at 3:49 AM

If all the Democratic, Registered young people will get out and Vote Tomorrow it will make a big different to our next 2 Years of getting things done for America! The young People can make the difference! They are the ones that they think won't get out and Vote,so go Vote and take some of your friends,make it work! We can't stand another 2 years of Lame Duck Operations in Washington! The Young People will be the ones to finely get our Honor & Respect back! Nana dot is absolutely correct in her analysis of things!

-- Posted by Jo on Tue, Nov 2, 2010, at 12:43 AM

Devil if I know Cheesehead. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Nov 2, 2010, at 12:27 AM

Fox news really liked this story!

http://theswiftreport.com/?p=387

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Nov 2, 2010, at 12:22 AM

News I agree that conservatives come up with good points. Rarely is Rush Limbaugh the source of conservative good points. Heck I see more out of Xray on this blog than Limbaugh has produced.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Nov 2, 2010, at 12:19 AM

LOL The rapture could throw some wrenches into politics couldn't it. We would still have to deal with fox new. There would still be some suprises. There would still be Tea baggers beating people up at their rallies. It appears the rapture ready index is rising, so who will you be voting for after the rapture?

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Nov 2, 2010, at 12:14 AM

Rapture, and 2012. http://theswiftreport.com/?p=240

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Nov 1, 2010, at 11:39 PM

Well it appears that if John Boehner and his lieutenant have their ways there will be no comprimise with Obama and the dems. If the fueled fired rush and beck rants continue along with the others, who will bring us back together? Who is this person? THE ONLY REPUBLICAN that could do this is Mitt Romney, but this couldn't happen untill 2012 elections.He is by far in my opinion the smartest republican they have. The congress had a record number of filibuster this year.Who will be working together to get things done? Please give heartful responses.

http://crooksandliars.com/jon-perr/gop-p...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Mon, Nov 1, 2010, at 11:36 PM

How Would YOU Encourage Voters

Just for fun. Not to be taken seriously but maybe I'm wrong.

http://www.foxnews.com/slideshow/opinion...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Nov 1, 2010, at 11:24 PM

News I hope you are right but I will believe it when I see it happen. At this point I don't know that we can get rid of the business as usual in Washington. The best thing we can do as a nation is to get out and vote tomorrow.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Nov 1, 2010, at 11:18 PM

Nana I have a much more positive view of America than you do evidently. Just because we have things in our history we are not proud of don't mean that America is not a great nation. Personally and I can only speak for myself I have things in my life that I am not proud of does that make me a bad person? It is only bad if we continually dwell on them. Let's think about the good things and move on.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Nov 1, 2010, at 11:09 PM

rr

I too have great faith in the will of the American People work hard to put the bad times behind and create a better future for our Nation. I believe if we Americans are nothing else, we are at the least a determined Nation of do-ers.

Tuesday this election will be over and in January the new Congressional term will begin. It is my hope that all Americans, conservative, middle of the road, and left will finally start working together to save our great Nation.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Nov 1, 2010, at 11:01 PM

rr

What does the American dream have to do with wars? Could you explain in a little more detail without a Limbaugh quote? Limbaugh is silly if I remember right Palin is the reason Obama is President. I think some on the right still remember this and dont want it to happen again. Sorry hun I have to call you out on this one!

-- Posted by miss october on Mon, Nov 1, 2010, at 10:33 PM

The American dream died when we try to appease our enemies. Instead of prolonging the wars set a goal of victory and plan to achieve it, execute it and go home. Stop messing with these mamby pamby countries and be the America we once were and still could be.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Nov 1, 2010, at 10:14 PM

We will see if an Election can be bought tomorrow! If Sharron Angle can win you can buy it! That should really make all Americans proud!If it does happen,witch i doubt, at least we'll know whats going on with the radical Conservative Group! They have all the Money, but we have all the Votes! If every Democrats will get off their *** and Vote they can't beat the Liberals on this one,regardless of how much Money they have! It's up to Liberals! Hope you would like going back to Minimum Wage and let the 2% have a little more! Wall Street will go back to reckless investing of your Money! You better stay out of the Market if that's the case!Your Taxes will go for more War, your Son's will be Fighting! Disgusting situation from either Party?

-- Posted by Jo on Mon, Nov 1, 2010, at 10:11 PM

Liberals Try to Depress You with GOP vs. Palin and Tea Party Stories

You guys just can't seem to get enough.

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/s...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Nov 1, 2010, at 10:09 PM

News I wouldn't say the American dream is over yet but it has been dealt a severe blow in the last 2 years.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Nov 1, 2010, at 10:04 PM

Philemon, I didn't realize Eisenhower was running for office again. I'll loan you my I Like Ike button. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Nov 1, 2010, at 9:54 PM

News,

Here in America the blowhard Rush is also considered a drug addict and a clown, but he also gives credence to some of the extremist views.

After watching one of his clips you have watched them all. Nothing postive ever comes out his cigars. With all fairness anyone hopped up on painkillers will say some crazy things.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Mon, Nov 1, 2010, at 9:53 PM

If all of the crooks are re-elected tomorrow, they'll know for sure they have America by the cohones.

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Nov 1, 2010, at 9:51 PM

Anyone care to do some last minute campaigning? I've decided how I'm going to vote in every race except one. I'm leaning towards Ike. Anyone got some last minute pros or cons? I've heard that as of the last poll this race was very close.

By the way, I was reading on the front page earlier where some people were complaining about FOX bieng on at the YMCA. My first thought were that since I agree that FOX isn't really "fair and balanced" that if the people actually watching it complained, then the channel should be changed. Then I read the comment where someone said they had four televisions at the Y with four different stations being played: FOX, CNN, a local station, and ESPN. That mix actually does sound both fair and balanced. Sounds to me like someone just wants everything their way and nobody should be able to watch anything that disagrees with them.

-- Posted by Philemon on Mon, Nov 1, 2010, at 9:40 PM

"A Superpower in Decline:

Is the American Dream Over?"

http://www.spiegel.de/international/worl...

An interesting read and food for thought.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Nov 1, 2010, at 9:38 PM

Actually OKR,

I read most of the links rr posts.

I get a kick out of what ol' crazy Rush has to say -- even though his arguments don't stand up well in the face of detailed scrutiny.

Besides, its only fair to hear out the conservatives' arguments. Sometimes they do actually hit a good point...but not often.

By the way, here in Australia Rush Limbaugh is widely recognized as a drug addict and a clown.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Nov 1, 2010, at 9:18 PM

Who received a robo call from Charlton Heston? He's been dead for almost two years now!

-- Posted by inthemiddle on Mon, Nov 1, 2010, at 9:00 PM

Obama Heckled and Besieged, Bush Gets Thunderous Ovation

OBAMA: (heckler shouting) A'right... (heckler shouting) A'right, you guys have made your point. You guys have made your point. Let's go. (heckler shouting) Let me jus' understand, everyb'dy... (heckler shouting) All right. (heckler shouting) Come on, guys. (extended booing) All right, everyb'dy, come on. (heckler shouting) All right, everyb'dy. (booing) Hey! Listen up. Listen up. Listen up. Listen up. Look... Listen up. Listen up, everybody.

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/s...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Nov 1, 2010, at 8:26 PM

Okr instead of worrying about me or Rush stick to the issues instead of personal attacks. Ok buddy.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Nov 1, 2010, at 8:11 PM

Rr3 you waste your energy with your Rush Limbo links. Nobody reads them , but ditto heads. Further when you establish that you are posting as a ditto head no one but other ditto heads pay you any attention.

You guys just go round,and around in a circle talking to each other, as all others walk right on by.

I am not saying that you don't have anything to say your self, but I do say you don't give your self much exposure.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Nov 1, 2010, at 7:57 PM

Dems Don't Want Military to Vote

Funny how the military ballots can't get there in time because they know how most of the defenders of freedom will vote.

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/s...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Nov 1, 2010, at 7:39 PM

Huge See, I Told You So from 2008: Democrats Try To Take Your 401(k)

Will the government outlaw your 401(k) plan?

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/s...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Nov 1, 2010, at 7:31 PM

At least there is one thing we agree on news the eternal campaigning. The campaigning for 2012 will probably start 11/3/2010.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Nov 1, 2010, at 7:27 PM

The GOP set to take on Sarah Palin? This one will get dirty,will it happen sooner or later? Why wouldn't the GOP take on the Tea Party anywhere besides Alaska or Florida in these elections? Maybe some on the right can answer this with some facts not propaganda from Rush or Fox news? My opinion is that they knew a bunch crazy people will be easier to take jobs from. I think that the GOP should bear some of the responsibilty for getting tea baggers elected this year during the next elections, or will they do them like they did Bush?

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/101...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Mon, Nov 1, 2010, at 4:51 PM

Two robo-calls each from Sara Palin and Mike Huckabee, one from Betty White, dozens from pollsters and perky volunteers from both major parties. -- lol -- the phone rang while I was typing this message. It was Newt Gingrich! Is there a politician on the continent who didn't record a robo-call? And do they care that I hang up as soon as I recognize the nature of the call, so I don't hear their "important message"?

-- Posted by Pragmatist on Mon, Nov 1, 2010, at 4:08 PM

commish

Lol!!! I can understand how you feel. In fact, anymore it seems like American election campaigns by politicians is a continuous activity.

I was amazed when I witnessed first hand the Australian elections when I first immigrated here. One month and it was over -- and that was for the Prime Minister's seat.

The last National election here did go into overtime though when neither of the 2 major parties had a 51% majority in the Federal Parliament. So they talked about it for awhile after the election, the independents went with the Labour Party (Australia's equivalent of the American Democrats), and the problem of a "Hung Parliament" was solved.

But normally its one month and the campaigning stops here. It sure beats the eternal campaigning we see in America.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Nov 1, 2010, at 3:47 PM

Sheesh, commish, that wouldn't be any fun.

I've gotten calls from Sara Palin and Betty White. I think maybe I got a call from Charlton Heston from the grave, also.

Didn't realize how popular I am with the celebraties.

The politico's can't really think that anybody is going to vote based on a recorded phone call from somebody who is semi-famous, can they?

-- Posted by Smart Dog on Mon, Nov 1, 2010, at 1:44 PM

Xray as per your comment quoted below you apparently share the blind eye, and deaf ear that you attribute to the left.

A couple of weeks before that I had said what you say the left doesn't say, nor admit. Read that quote below yours. You paint with an awfully broad brush, that resulted in this instance, in painting yourself into a corner. ;)

"General Electric, which owns NBC, has also made substantial political contributions in the 2010 election cycle. For example, GE donated $688,900 to Democrats through its PAC this election cycle compared to $410,100 to Republicans.

This just demonstrates AGAIN the LEFT BIAS that the lame stream media has for the Left....

Just find it hilarious that you lefties cannot at least be honest and admit that the left is doing the exact same thing that the right is doing.... your being DISHONEST Shame Shame... LOL

At least you are entertaining me

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Nov 1, 2010, at 12:28 AM "

"Xray you are correct. Obama got nearly a half million dollars from the G.E. PAC. ($499,130.00)

They are all bought, and paid for. Things won't ever be right until national elections are publically financed.

Interesting web site, this link. http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contri...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Oct 18, 2010, at 12:33 AM"

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Nov 1, 2010, at 1:24 PM

whoohoo - a clean slate

-- Posted by zeke on Mon, Nov 1, 2010, at 10:43 AM

Go IKE!

-- Posted by SalineFire on Mon, Nov 1, 2010, at 10:33 AM


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