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Speak Out [politics] September 8 to November 1, 2010

Wednesday, September 8, 2010

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People are gonna lose their jobs over this.

http://www.redstate.com/laborunionreport...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Nov 1, 2010, at 6:44 AM

Delegitimizing The Victories: The Politics of the Angry White Male

http://www.redstate.com/erick/2010/11/01...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Nov 1, 2010, at 6:43 AM

xray,

Thanks. I forgot about that post.

Cable news and it 24/7 onslaught of "opinion" based editorial news is dragging us down. Maybe we should all take a week and boycott cable news and turn back to the things we really enjoy in life. Maybe we all need to refresh our perspectives and start acting like Americans again instead of he two camps that we have been sucessfully divided in to.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Nov 1, 2010, at 6:01 AM

What the f.... I agree with your analogy... too many people in America and on this message board are so biased toward their personal OPINIONS that they ignore reality. Your Pro-wrestler analogy is spot on. The Dems and Repubs just take turns and it gets worse and worse and more blatant. It is not about what is best for American citizens but what bests secures their power and money and comfortable life style.

As long as we the people continue to ignore the realities of our political situation then we will never actually get it fixed.

You can agree or disagree with the tea party movement all you want. But, if you are half way honest, you have to admit that their actions as a movement have made a big first step in forcing the political elite to at least pay attention to the citizens a little bit. IF the people remove a few incumbents and then go back to sleep then nothing is solved. BUT if this movement of citizens waking up to the realities of the bribery and corruption in DC that is causing our nation to fail continues then maybe we have a chance.

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Nov 1, 2010, at 12:38 AM

JO: So YOUR idea of progress is expensive government programs, full of endless red tape and rules and regulations that can change at a whim and that add confusion, distrust in the government, and extreme cost to any industry the 'government' decides to target with programs that are full of fraud, abuse, waste, inefficiency?

The whole idea that you lefties try to push is that if someond disagrees with the left and progressive agenda, then they have to be anti government, radicals, "christians" (Like that is somehow evil) and that they desire anarchy and no government at all... LOL leftist propaganda...

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Nov 1, 2010, at 12:32 AM

most media outlets donate money to candidates and political party committees...

I love this... MORE liberal biased hypocricy... NewsCorp did donate money to Republicans but they donated chunks to various Dem organizations as well.

GE and NBC donated more money to Democrats than Republicans... where is the the horror and outrage at this? LOL

General Electric, which owns NBC, has also made substantial political contributions in the 2010 election cycle. For example, GE donated $688,900 to Democrats through its PAC this election cycle compared to $410,100 to Republicans.

This just demonstrates AGAIN the LEFT BIAS that the lame stream media has for the Left....

Just find it hilarious that you lefties cannot at least be honest and admit that the left is doing the exact same thing that the right is doing.... your being DISHONEST Shame Shame... LOL

At least you are entertaining me

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Nov 1, 2010, at 12:28 AM

Miss October: You stated: "Does anyone know how Fox is handling the coverage they have to hate the fact about the govt foiling terror plots? They have to take time out of getting republicans elected?"

lets at least be fair.... Obama BARELY took time out of his campaigning all across the nation to address the terror activities, calling them "probably a valid threat" and then jumping back on his plane to campaign, trying to get dems elected... LOL

More liberal hypocrisy... love it!!

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Nov 1, 2010, at 12:18 AM

lol News... again with failing logic... you seem to be saying that if a Republican runs for office then they are just attention seekers with nothing in their brains? LOL Sad example of the liberal thought process....

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Nov 1, 2010, at 12:15 AM

Daily Show Laughter at Obama

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/s...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Oct 31, 2010, at 8:23 PM

"Charlie Crist, hands down, despite the tan, is the whitest of these three candidates in Florida. And who is it that the Obama White House and the Democrat Party are arranging to win this thing? The white guy. Can you say 'civil rights'?" -Rush

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Oct 31, 2010, at 8:18 PM

No what do you mean wtf?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Oct 31, 2010, at 7:14 PM

All this nasty talk about one Party or the other,is crazy, ultimately its our decision what happens to our Government! If we are so stupid as to let our Employees do the things they do,we are wrong, these people do as they please! And they are pretty good at convincing the Electorate of their dirty deeds,that's our fault! From the beginning of Reagan's term is the beginning of our down fall in our Government.In my opinion! We let them change thing too their advantage. Redistricting when they feel like it. Making up different rules as they go! And why do we need so many Representatives,and Senators,if they want too reduce the size of Government get rid of a few of these People! Also there are too many Constitutional Attorneys,to many Advisors to many Speech Writers,to many of everything! We have to change the way the system works, starting with the Voting system ,on up! All the tactic Congress & Senate uses to stall things,All the nonsense!Does this make any sense to anyone, or is it just me???

-- Posted by Jo on Sun, Oct 31, 2010, at 2:19 PM

See what I mean?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Oct 31, 2010, at 12:16 PM

Wtf I am really sorry I am such a disappointment to you I am really sorry boss. Please don't beat me master.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Oct 31, 2010, at 11:05 AM

rr3yv0.

Wow. What can I say. Bush loved America so much that he squandered the lives of thousands

of our troops and counless Iraqi's. For what?

You really disappoint me.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Oct 31, 2010, at 10:59 AM

"Make no mistake: Barack Obama is very happy about what he's done to the country -- very happy. He sees himself as Reverend Wright's 'chickens come home to roost.'" -Rush

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Oct 31, 2010, at 10:37 AM

For all you Bush and Rush fans I mean you must be their name keeps coming up.

"Ladies and gentlemen, the Bush book ain't bad. In fact, it will remind you, as it did me, of when we had a president who loved America." -Rush

Give me one thing Obama loves about America.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Oct 31, 2010, at 10:36 AM

Well said John the left always accuses their opponents of the very things they are doing then act all innocent. I mean it is all Bush's fault isn't it. I bet Raw Story or some other lame news media said that. I mean it couldn't be Fox News they are not a real news organization. It couldn't be Rush he has zero credibility. It couldn't be Beck he's just a right wing wacko. According to the left where does a conservative go to get the news fair and balanced?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Oct 31, 2010, at 10:33 AM

I don't see how they called it a Restoring Sanity rally looked insane to me but hey what do I know right.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Oct 31, 2010, at 10:04 AM

What would you be willing to compromise on News?

I think compromising to the left has gotten us where we are at.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Oct 31, 2010, at 9:51 AM

Whats scary cheesehead is that someone even likes that video.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Oct 31, 2010, at 9:49 AM

I want to wish everyone a Tea Party hallowen! I warn you there is lots of scary charcters in this video! Their costumes are scary but their ideas even more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-gjy8pJx...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Sun, Oct 31, 2010, at 2:31 AM

Yeah I saw that WTF,

it was incredible!!!

Did you see all the people stretched out for what seemed forever? Wow is all I can say...that and I think Jon and Stephen are correct...we all need to start working together for the good of our Nation. I and many others on the far left are aware this means compromise and for the good of the Country we know it has to be that way in order to find common ground. However, I am not sure the right-wingers would give an inch. So far all I have seen from them throughout this Congressional term is obstructionism.

I hope some of the conservatives were watching.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Oct 30, 2010, at 8:01 PM

Did anyone see the massive turn-out at the rally to restore sanity today?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Oct 30, 2010, at 6:51 PM

rr3yvo,

I won't call Palin, Angle or O'Donnel any names but I will say that maybe they should get their own talk show. That's a win win for everyone. They win because they get all the attention the so desparately desire and we the people win because they would be as far away from making policy as is possible.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Oct 30, 2010, at 6:17 PM

miss october

Fox Conservative Propaganda Inc makes me want to upchuck! lol...

What really made me ill was their massive, partisian, political donation to the Republican Party.

At that point their intent became all too clear, if before it had been obtuse.

Fortunately, as President Lincoln said, "...they cannot fool all of the People, all of the time."

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Oct 30, 2010, at 5:16 PM

Does anyone know how Fox is handling the coverage they have to hate the fact about the govt foiling terror plots? They have to take time out of getting republicans elected?

-- Posted by miss october on Sat, Oct 30, 2010, at 11:11 AM

Grow Up, Already! Calling Women Bad Names Doesn't Help Anyone

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/10/2...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Oct 29, 2010, at 7:48 PM

Here is the post about how Fox news is using its coverage to manipulate the elections. They should now be considered a conservative PAC not a news source.More than 30 foxnewsers have endorsed right wing candidates during weeks leading up to elections. How do independant viewers get fair and balenced coverage on Fox PAC.

http://mediamatters.org/research/2010102...

-- Posted by miss october on Fri, Oct 29, 2010, at 3:18 PM

"Officials: Muslim source turned in terror suspect"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39894024/ns/...

Funny that...the neocon/teabaggers keep telling us the Muslims are our enemies by virtue of their religious beliefs.

Gee I guess those innocent victims who died in the WTC Towers on 9/11, who also happend to be Muslim Americans, might be shocked by the neocon.teabagger position...if they weren't already dead from the attack on 9/11.

Muslim Americans Also Died On 9/11

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seH_gnUzj...

http://islam.about.com/od/terrorism/a/Mu...

-- includes list of Muslim Americans killed on 9/11.

http://iraqimojo.blogspot.com/2010/09/in...

Its time We the People start standing up to the neocon/teabaggers and tell them to get off their racist soap box and end their racist, anti-Muslim tirades.

We need solutions...not more racism!!

miss october,

Thanks for the link about Fox News but for some reason it won't pull up that article. However, I learned about Fox so-called News along time ago. That is one channel that is never watched in our home even though it is available in Sydney. We don't trust Fox News, we don't like their partisian broadcasting, we don't do business with any of their advertisors, and we don't watch their broadcasts. We do laugh at them a lot though lol...

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Oct 29, 2010, at 12:20 AM

Should Fox news be considered a PAC or a news channel?I dont believe this is no longer a news channel it is a conservative PAC. Right wing candidates have recieved over 600 endorsements in the last few months from fox commentators and entertainers. We should all seek out a different source without such bias? Check out this Article!

http://mediamatters.org/research/2010102...

-- Posted by miss october on Thu, Oct 28, 2010, at 11:25 PM

Actually OKR

I was very happy you brought the subject up so I could set the record straight.

Some folks in this forum attempt to cast personal dispersions upon their opposition when they find the opposition's arguments unbeatable. Now I think every reader here can easily understand and probably already know that most of the English speaking World uses the word "mate" in the same way that many Americans use the word "buddy" or "pal."

Jo,

I share your concerns mate. I am hoping that folks will remember what these Republicans are all about...torture, wars based on lies, eliminating civil rights, racism, and using fiscal policies that gave us our current economic crisis.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Oct 28, 2010, at 10:42 PM

And now, William Rivers Pitt. http://www.truth-out.org/now-we-know6454...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Oct 28, 2010, at 10:33 PM

Hey News I hope that I wasn't misinterpreted. Actually I was digging at those who get upset by your use of the word. Probably should have just kept my mouth shut. Instead I may have p---ed off at least two people.

Sorry mate, wisecrackers like me screw up sometimes. I just did. I'll try to watch my comments on the foibles of my fellow humans a bit closer.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Oct 28, 2010, at 10:21 PM

Well,people the big day that will either make or break the USA is about here! I think everyone knows that the Obama Administration has not had time to do much,i don't think anyone could have done much better! Although he has made some progress,(with a lot of People in his way).I understant this, if democrats don't keep the majority,and add to it,we are in for absolutely nothing done to take care of the peoples business for at least,another 2 years!So if you are so disturbed over this we better hang in there at least, until the end of Obama hitch,we have signed up for nothing to happen, but the same NO NO NO! We have to give him some help, with more time? If it doesn't happen, he's out in 2 years, if it does, it's all for the good of the Country! In my mind,judging by the last Administration performance we can expect,(by their own words) NO SOCIAL SECURITY,NO HEALTH CARE,NO MEDICAL RESERCH, NO V A , NO JOBS, NO PROSECUTING POWER,NO PULLING OUR TROOPS OUT OF THESE WARS,AND IT GOS ON & ON!! But we have to deal with what we have, and make the right decision on this Election! With these two guys, Boehner & MCconnel,running the Party this Country will never progress! Why Kentucky & Ohio keep these two guys? They just want their individual power, and everything Obama does, to fail,they don't care about the Country! If you think it's bad now, wait till the Republicans get the power back! If you think your home is safe, i hope your right? Vote vote vote!!

-- Posted by Jo on Thu, Oct 28, 2010, at 10:10 PM

Lol...OKR you know very well that "mate" in the U.K, Ireland, South Africa, and Australia means "friend."

There are some other differences in word usage in most of the other English speaking countries such as the fact that most of them spell "tire" as "tyre;" "checks" as "cheques," "harbor" as "harbour," ect., and then there is the really odd use of the word "fairdinkum" in Australia -- which is the only English speaking Nation that I am aware of that uses that word -- which means "good value."

If some Americans don't understand what most other English speaking countires and their people mean by "mate" then that is the problem of those specific American individuals. Its no problem for the rest of us lol. Perhaps some Americans should travel more and learn there is an entire World outside the USA.

As to "mate" having a sexual content...well that would depend on how you use it. Most folks here use the term "partner" to describe their committed relationships. My "partner" and romantic "mate" is my wife...a female from Sydney.

I guess I am married to a female because I was born heterosexual. However, if I had been born gay instead of straight, I would be very proud of it and would certainly make no secret of the fact, and if that was the case then my "partner" and romantic interest would have been another gay man.

I do have quite a few gay friends here though. My wifes best friend of over 30 years, Brian, is quite openly gay and has a solid, very committed relationship to his gay partner of many years, Graham. In fact, right now my wife's best friend is in intensive care in the hospital and thank goodness his partner, Graham, has the same legal rights as a spouse so he can be by Brian's side during this difficult time. We do expect Brian to fully recover, btw. Brian is a wonderful person, well educated, a professional, and the kind of guy that would, and has, given the shirt off his back to help other folks out. He is gay, proud of being gay, and he is a fine human being. We who know him well are all looking forward to his full recovery soon.

As a result of knowing Brian, I have had the priviledge of meeting many folks in the gay community in Sydney. Australia has a large and very open gay population and many of the gays I have met here are absolutely outstanding individuals in Australia and they are very proud to be gay Australians...as they should be.

I have never noticed Australians to be particularly homophobic as many Americans clearly are. Its just not an issue here. Gays are fully accepted as good, contributing members of the community here and we have strong anti-discrimination and hate-crime laws that absolutely protect gays here from abuse or discrimination.

It has not always been that way in Australia and in fact homosexuality was actually outlawed here until the late 20th Century.

There are still some equallity issues that need to be met here as there are also in the USA. Gays in Australia are still working hard to achieve full equality, but they are much closer nowdays to their goals of equality than they were 10 or 20 years ago. The right to marry their partners is an issue here as well, with the right-wing particularly opposed to it. The right-wingers here often echo some of the Christian rhetoric we hear from the conservatives in America, but the majority in the general public now seems to support the right of gays to marry. Fortunately, gay partnerships already do enjoy the same legal rights and obligations as married couples do here. It is my hope that Australia will take that next, inevitable step and give gays the right to marry as any straight couple has.

I hope that clears things up regarding the many meanings of the word mate...lol.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Oct 28, 2010, at 8:25 PM

Here's something depressing. The new immigration law in Arizona was motivated not by boder security but by the profit to be made by private prisons. I don't know why I'm surprised.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Oct 28, 2010, at 7:46 PM

"US spy spending revealed for first time, tops $80 billion [in 2010].

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/10/28/us.spy....

Wow!!

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Oct 28, 2010, at 7:22 PM

Thanks News, I knew I could count on a detailed response from you. I was aware of Darwin, but believed that infrastructure destruction was not a significant problem there. The population explanation was quite interesting. Have a good day mate. (not that there is anything wrong with that. I have good friends who are mates ;)).

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Oct 28, 2010, at 6:20 PM

"Matthews: Tea Party supporters 'acting like street thugs,' Nazi-era 'hoodlums'"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/10/matth...

Well Mr/ Matthews is finally beginning to realize what we on the left knew a long time ago...the Teabaggers political philosphy is in harmony with fascism. We were saying long ago that the Teabaggers were nothing more the the right-wing crazies of the Republican Party -- trying to hide under a new name. This would also explain why they call themselves "Tea Party" but all their political candidates run for office as Republicans.

I hope my fellow Americans will wake up before election day and realize who these Teabaggers really are...because the consequences of having fascists in power, as history has shown over and over again, can be devestating to a Nation.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Oct 28, 2010, at 5:05 PM

Oklahoma Reader

Australia was never isolated from WWII. The Japanese attacked Darwin, a large city in the Northern Territory, and they tried to attack Sydney. Both attacks failed.

The Australian situation after WWII was rather unique though.

Australia's cities and manufacturing base were functional but they had a real population problem.

The Aussies feared that their population at that time would not be large enough to sustain a National economy. The decision they had to make was do we all return to Europe or do we increase our population with immigration? They finally decided to increase immigration and launched a major advertising campaign in Anglo Nations such as the United States, the United Kingdom, South Africa, ect.

It did work, however the Aussies were severely critisized for the "White Only" immigration policy. They eventually ended the "White Only" immigration policy but it was not that long ago that they ended it. Naturally I am personally happy they ended that policy or I might not have been allowed to emigrate to Australia had they kept the White Only policy.

Anyway, the increase in immigration brought with it new skills and a larger population. Australian manufacturing boomed after they began to enlarge the population and today Australia is the economic powerhouse in this region of the World.

I hope that answers your questions mate.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Oct 28, 2010, at 4:40 PM

News Across: Thanks for the info on Australia. Can you tell me if the peace time recovery after WWII, ran as it did for the others physically isolated from the sites of battle?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Oct 28, 2010, at 10:31 AM

JHH Sorry to bother you again, but was the "Well done." comment sarcasm, connected with your squeezed out statement, or what? I guess I am just slow this morning. I did get loud, and clear your reservations about whether elections just change the faces, and we all continue to suffer from their actions. We all feel your anguish about that one bud.

Maybe that is another area where we can all get together. Election reform.

So: 1. the wars, 2. election reform, that is a good start.

Do you see a another category of common ground?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Oct 28, 2010, at 10:26 AM

JHH I think that I missed something in your comment about squeezing out conservative comment on the blog. Was it something I said? If so I am surprised. I assure you that my message was inclusiveness, not exclusiveness. Our horrible problems effect us all, and we all have to be part of the solution.

I have a sense that one area of common ground where we can most readily change things is our wars. That would be a huge start.

They were a bad investment, remain a bad investment, yet we continue to put our dollars in something that will not ever give us a return of value. If the wars were on the board at the stock market it would have ceased trading long ago.

Would you give a little more detail on what you meant about being excluded?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Oct 28, 2010, at 10:16 AM

Oklahoma Reader

Australia's economy is still booming. We have tremendous job growth and unemployment continues to drop quickly even below our traditional levels. In fact last month we created over a million new jobs...not bad for a population of only 20 to 22 million people. Australia never experienced the economic bust the USA is currently suffering from.

Australia's success seems to be due to 1.) the enormous mineral wealth in Western Australia, 2.) Heavy regulation and policing of the banking industry which prevented banks here from trading in credit derivatives, 3.) High immigration, 4.) Strong business and diplomatic relations with our best trading partner, China. 5.) Strong social programs including socialized medicine and our public dole which provides a safety net for all Australian poor.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Oct 28, 2010, at 6:29 AM

One last thing. Included in where we are now is an unfortunate circumstance. Corporatists at the top remain in a panic. They can apparently find no place to turn except where they have been, as they spin dizzily looking for answers. So they are right back at the old game of building huge houses of cards that are destined to fall at the first ill wind. This illusion is lunacy, as was the one from which we are just now beginning to recover. Can we survive another all fall down? Perhaps, but there will be no financier for a similar bail out.

Our friend China won't need to do it again. They will be in a position to secure a much more advantageous relationship.

That is just one more reason why we have got to really scratch our heads, and come up with something. There must be an answer. It will not come from the blindly staggering, and grasping corporatists.

It is up to us folks. Whatcha got?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Oct 28, 2010, at 1:22 AM

I purposely left the countries of Australia, Canada, and New Zealand out of my essay.

I believe Canada rode the same wave as their near neighbor, even prospering from manufacturing needs that were shipped north due to a lack of labor, and other things, but certainly not capital, that were proceeding at more than peak capacity stateside. A symbol of their arguably slightly inferior, and subservient status is that until things began to unravel, the Canadian dollar consistently remained of lesser value than that of the U. S. dollar. A sign of the times is that it is no longer the consistent case.

I believe that Australia, and New Zealand may have prospered to some degree for the same reasons as did the United States of America. They may have been curtailed somewhat by lack of scale, that was a huge (pun intended) advantage to the United States.

An Australian citizen could speak with greater authority than I, and certainly with greater detail, if he would choose to oblige that need. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Oct 28, 2010, at 12:58 AM

One other thing. We are all in agreement that America is in decline. We all bemoan the loss of advantages that this nation enjoyed post world war two until about 1975, or 1980. Don't get upset Righties, I am not going off on Reagan, that is another thing, for another time.

Anyway, there was a thirty to thirty five year period wherein we were on top of the world. We all bemoan what is missing from our economic system, our politics, and our people that allowed that to slip away. We can not agree as to the problem. Do you suppose that it is because we all have it wrong?

Could it be something as simple as geography that allowed us that window of supremacy?

What I mean is that all of western civilization, and developed eastern civilization were devastated by the war. At its end their factories were destroyed, their people demoralized, and their countries were broke. On top of that all our allies were in hock to us up to their eyeballs. The Germans, the Japanese, and to some degree the Italians, were reduced to beggars, coming to us hat in hand, asking us to please help keep their people from starving. We responded in each case, magnificently. Because we were the only ones that could.

Our quasi-ally the Russians took a different tack. they opted to oppose us by grabbing land, and resources every direction that they could reach. Gambling that they could grow stronger based on additional real estate alone, in the process becoming our competitive enemy. They rolled craps, and never have achieved the material success that the rest of those countries mentioned in time did acquire. Even many of their satellites, once freed from their soviet bonds achieved a higher standard of living than did Russia itself.

Not a building was bombed in our country, nothing was destroyed by the great war. Exactly the opposite happened. Factories were built, and our entire population was mobilized to produce the materials of war. Compared to what the rest of the world was forced to do after the war, it was relatively simple to convert our enlarged capacity for production to providing creature comforts to our citizens, and yes the peoples of the world, at a price we named.

How could we not have soared above all others in that circumstance? We had simply by geography been spared the ravages of war.

In time the rest of the world began to recover. They began to compete, to again trade among themselves. We had lost our leverage. It was not an overnight thing, but it gradually began to sink in. A populace that had become used to having it all, and more, was once again on a level playing field. In some cases less than a level playing field, because of the efficiencies that other countries had to adopt to recover from devastation were not even considered here.

We became uneasy, and began to try new things. We thought well let's join together into a world economy, drop tariffs, open our markets to competition, squeeze our labor force, and if necessary export our manufacturing to get a larger piece of the world's pie by being there when it came out of the ovens of the rest of the world. That did help those at the top, those that is who were in a position to grab the pies straight from the oven. Not a crumb though for the most of us, who never even got a whiff of what was baking.

Still we continued to sag economically. Those ingrates that we had helped to recover excluded us, and bonded together in their own alliances, excluding us.

Panic at the top began to set in. We had to look for new sources of wealth. We gambled blindly, lurching into wars for resources, mistakenly thinking that our military strength would allow us to quickly take control of those apparently weak repositories, and immediately begin to utilize those commandeered materialities. What a colossal mistake.

Then our panic at the top began to drive us to straight out gambling, and sleight of hand. If we couldn't have the real thing, then we would have at least the illusion of the real thing. Some got rich off this scheme, but as it soon tumbled down, as such things must, most of us were the poorer as the result of that frivolous exercise.

So, here we sit in a world of hurt, pointing fingers at each other, not even seeing the big picture. Don't you think it is about time to recognize that it has all gone wrong, and work together to figure out how we can make the best of a bad situation? Don't you think that if we keep what truly has happened in mind, that we can somehow dump the ***** at the top who have led us all so far astray, and restore some semblance of the good life to all Americans? I hope so because if not we are all going to be up to our necks in quicksand without even an arm left free to pull ourselves out.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Oct 27, 2010, at 11:17 PM

"US travel security goes overboard, says EU"

http://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/-/world...

LOl...their goes those billions in tourist dollars...lol...oh and the Australians are not too fond of American Gestapo tactics either.

Well no-one ever said facsism would easy lol but who knew it could be so costly? Well at least you are safe lol lol lol...

Now let's see what was it Ben Franklin said?

Oh yeah...here is what Ben Franklin had to say about security...

"Anyone who trades liberty for security deserves neither liberty nor security."

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Oct 27, 2010, at 10:57 PM

rr,

No, RawStory did not make that statement.

The Green Party made that statement.

Raw merely quoted them. Raw has no opinion. Raw is a news reporting organization. They just report the facts.

However, I would agree with the Green Party that there are very few major differences between the Republicans and the Democrats. In fact, I like to refer to the two major parties as the "Unified Facist Party.?

I think it describes them well. Here in Australia my wife and I vote Green Party. They used to be a minor 3rd Party here. Now they control our Senate.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Oct 27, 2010, at 10:25 PM

By the way ladies, and gentlemen have you perused the comments that are being fired out on Marcia's Prop B blog? And I thought it was rough, and tumble here.

Check it out, then give yourselves a pat on the back for your comparitive decorum.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Oct 27, 2010, at 9:37 PM

And Cheesehead as I mentioned in an earlier post, only eight percent of the people are aware that the Obama Administration gave us all a tax break. Evidence of that is that not a one of those that post from the right has said they were glad that it was provided. Even more telling is that none of us on the left have used it as rebuttal when the right has endlessly said lower taxes.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Oct 27, 2010, at 9:33 PM

Here is hint that just maybe we are headed in the right direction minus the teabaggers and Rush. President Obama has already added more private sector jobs than Bush did in 8 years.

http://newsjunkiepost.com/2010/10/08/its...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Wed, Oct 27, 2010, at 9:02 PM

rr3, and vote Republican if you want it to end? Are you kiddin me?

How about YOU fessin up that we are between a rock, and a hard place?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Oct 27, 2010, at 8:48 PM

What Would the Country Look Like Should Obama's Agenda Prevail?

We have more racial division in this country than we've had since 1964, sponsored by and brought to us by Obama.

Iran is nuking up. There's no stopping them. If you want more of that, while America disarms its nuclear stockpile, vote Democrat.

If you want to see America in ten years, take a look at any country on this planet with a declining economic output, a rising poverty rate.

Vote Democrat if you want this to continue.

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/s...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Oct 27, 2010, at 8:25 PM

Can Democrats Cheat Enough to Overcome Tuesday's Teanami?

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/s...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Oct 27, 2010, at 8:12 PM

Thank you Smart Dog

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Oct 27, 2010, at 8:08 PM

Green Party: 'Whether you elect Democrats or Republicans, you're getting a GOP agenda'

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/10/green...

News Raw Story says there is no difference.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Oct 27, 2010, at 8:06 PM

Thanks for reading my drivel to all. I guess in my old age I am finding it more fun to try and find common ground than argue. Of course I do enjoy a good logic debate for fun, but those are much better 'live' than typewritten.

I also need to apologize to rr3. Bad thinking on my part to name you like that in my post. Uncalled for and unnecessary. My bad.

I think our country was founded by some smart fellers who thought the system would be based on compromise among those who disagreed. I fear that two and a quarter centuries later we have turned it into 'winner takes all.'

Poor James Madison, the guy who authored our constitution, thought we would end up with lots of small political parties, special interest groups if you will, and they would have to reach compromise and agreement in order create a majority and get anything done.

I think we are pretty far from that idea now in American politics. It is a shame that the only time we can get that sort of behavior out of our two major parties these days is when some sort of major disaster or war breaks out. Then there is still an aweful lot of political posturing.

On to other stuff, I still am undecided on the puppy mill thing. I like the concept, but have to admit that we don't fund enforcement of the animal cruelty laws we have now so what difference will this make? Also, as a hobby farmer, I have learned not to trust the HSUS, so for me their support and sponsorship of this proposal seems suspect. What a dilema, poor starving puppies or vegans run amuck?

Also, I am a 'quit taxxing the crap out of me' guy, so on the surface I like the 'no more taxes on real estate' idea of Ammendment 3. However constitutional ammendments are rather far reaching once they hit the courtroom. I also don't trust that there are not other hidden agenda to use this as a backdoor for other things in the courts. Could this be used to prevent schools from annexing property, such as a factory built on the edge of a district, in order to increase the tax base? I fear that big money interests will use this to avoid paying their share which will then fall on me.

-- Posted by Smart Dog on Wed, Oct 27, 2010, at 7:07 PM

"REVEALED: SHADOWY GROUPS HAVE PUMPED JUST SHY OF QUARTER BILLION INTO 2010 ELECTIONS"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/10/shado...

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Oct 27, 2010, at 6:44 PM

Phil,

Fox is far more than just a right-wing mouthpiece.

Thay are now actively working with Republican policitians to get those Republicans elected.

Personally though, I find the entire election very amusing. What kind of fool wants to jump from the pan to the fire? Answer: Teabaggers and easily conned swing voters who have a short memory.

It reminds me of one definition of the word "insanity" -- doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Good luck with that.

I sure am glad I won't have live under a crazy right-wing, Republican government.

Anyway, I find the whole thing to be hilareous. Maybe one day my fellow Yanks will wake up...but I doubt it -- so until then, keep the comedy coming fellas! lol lol lol...

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Oct 27, 2010, at 5:15 PM

"We report, you decide?

More than 30 Fox News personalities endorsed, raised money or campaigned for GOP candidates during 2010..."

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/10/repor...

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Oct 27, 2010, at 5:01 PM

I've found it difficult tot stay brief myself lately Smart Dog, but made it through your post with ease. I appreciate your opinions and their presentation was in a manner I can very much respect. I can't quite say I agree with everything you said totally, but can agree in principle.

I like your description leaning away from the right rather than being on the left. I tend to think of myself as being from the cold lonely North, but continually making trips down to the East and West (left and right) for supplies depending on the issue or candidate. Far too often I find that what I'm looking for is out of stock.

-- Posted by Philemon on Wed, Oct 27, 2010, at 2:52 PM

Very true wtf I was not pointing fingers just stating facts. Don't we tend to label people extremist because their opinion is different from ours? Individually we need to stand for what we believe.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Oct 27, 2010, at 2:13 PM

Smart Dog, I made it through your most recent post with no difficulty. That's because it's well-written, well-reasoned and absolutely right on the money. We do not always agree, but on the specifics you give here, I couldn't agree with you more.

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Wed, Oct 27, 2010, at 1:29 PM

rr3yvo.

Keep in mind that everything you just said in your post about opinions, smoke and mirrors etc. could also possibly be applied to you as well.

The problem as I see it is that we are being railroaded by extremists in this country. Extremists from both ends of the spectrum. From someone wanting to pass laws on how much salt a restaurant can and can't use and how you discipline your children to insisting we are only a Christian nation and telling us who we can and can't marry.

Do we blame ourselves that we fall for this drivel? The politicians generally only tell us what we want to hear. Is this it? Is this really what we want to hear? Tea Parties and Terrorists? Atheists and treehuggers? The first task of division is labeling and the rest just falls into place if we let it.

My idea of getting our country back is for us all to take a breath, calm down search for where the middle used to be. There is no more give and take. No more compromise. No more civility. I'm tired. Tired of all of it, isn't anyone else?

None of us will ever have everything exactly the way we would like it but the promise of that is the politcal distraction that keeps any real change from happening. Change that is good for everyone, not just this group or that group.

Some division is to be expected but this has become bloodsport. It seems to me as if it has only gotten worse after 9/11. Have those extremeists won? Are they laughing hysterically that we now feed on ourselves?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Oct 27, 2010, at 12:51 PM

Phil: You say you can't decide on some of the Candidates?For me until there is a third Choice there is no way i would vote Republican,not with their record! They have already said what they would do,if that's not enough to make your choice,you will never know!

-- Posted by Jo on Wed, Oct 27, 2010, at 12:51 PM

See what I mean Smart Dog.

Okr their are millions of Americans that would be happy to carry water or empty porta potties right now just to have a job. But wait the government will probably extend unemployment benefits so why work? I feel blessed to have a good job and I'm glad it is not emptying porta potties.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Oct 27, 2010, at 12:03 PM

I am sure rr3 will post plenty of links to smoke and mirrors arguements against my opinions but hey, that's the beauty of opinions, I own them and I know the research I have done to develop them.

-- Posted by Smart Dog on Wed, Oct 27, 2010, at 9:15 AM

That is very true we do own our own opinions. There are also plenty of smoke and mirror arguements to go around but I am not going to give a lengthy dissertation about that. I don't know about you but this is all for fun and I don't care what any of the other posters think that I believe. Frankly they don't know any more about what I think then I know about what you think. I have tried being nice on here but it doesn't matter to the "left". They attack by trying to discredit you or your source they rarely argue the issue. I ask questions that never get answered. I just feel if I give them enough rope they will hang theirself so to speak. The true colors will show don't you think?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Oct 27, 2010, at 11:52 AM

Smart Dog, and Philemon it was pleasant to read your comments this morning. They went well with good coffee.

Hey you may have even influenced rr3 to embrace moderation. Supporting MS. Clinton? I hope so, but I suspect that his reason may be the same as if I touted Ms. Palin as the Republican presidential candidate.

Come to think of it that would be an interesting contest. As much so for observing the populace's reaction to such a race, as the actual contest. Would hearts, or minds win out?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Oct 27, 2010, at 11:09 AM

Good point WTF regarding what a burden it must be to carry water for Rush Limbaugh.

Rather akin I would think, to those poor souls who have to clean out porta-potties every day.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Oct 27, 2010, at 10:52 AM

Philemon,

As you probably already know, I think you are the kind of voter I wish we had more of. Thinking for yourself and pondering both sides agendas is the key to smart voting. I say, way to go.

Now, to get back to current politics. I have to give Carnahan a plug. She's not Blunt.

Specifically, there is plenty of mud being thrown, but the one fact about Roy is that he has become filthy stinking rich off of lobbyist money. Roy is a darling of the Republican National Committee and has never failed to tow the party line. One thing about republican candidates: they can't win a primary without moving to the extreme right of their party. Roy also has ambitions for 2012 or beyond so he will be busy getting the next job, not doing the one he already has.

These are my opinions that are of course based on my stated "leaning against the right, not toward the left" perspective. I think that following eight years of republican ideas (6 years of total control)that led us to where we are, we need to give the democrats at least 2 more years of congress to see if we can't fix a couple of things.

Specifically-

I do not trust the right to fix looming social security problems. Fundamentally they will make all decisions favoring those who paid for their campaigns, and I don't see anybody in that arena who favors lightening the load for us who have paid, or will pay, into the system for 45 to 50 years and expect a return on our investment. The solutions from the right? 'Privatize' or raise the retirement age. I oppose both. I say let's go back to that Al Gore idea of locking up the fund and quit spending money paid in to fund on other things.

I do not trust that the right will not be bought off by big pharmacy and big health insurance and therefore never do anything to help improve the ugly condition of our 'for profit' health care system which ranks poorly in the world.

And finally, I do not support the old, tired "the wealthy deserve to be rich" philosophy of trickle down economic theory that is just being repackaged for the 21st century as a method of job creation. In any study of political science, the function of all governments, regardless of type, is the "redistribution of wealth." It is an unarguable fact and to try and say it is not is foolhardy and baseless.

I am sure rr3 will post plenty of links to smoke and mirrors arguements against my opinions but hey, that's the beauty of opinions, I own them and I know the research I have done to develop them.

Man, I always start out with a brief comment and then the words just won't stop flying out. Apologies for my lengthy dissertations and once again, readers, if you made it through I commend you.

-- Posted by Smart Dog on Wed, Oct 27, 2010, at 9:15 AM

With the election getting so close, I'd like to see more info posted here about our specific elections on my ballot next week. I'm still undecided on some and so barely leaning on others that I'd like to see some actual hard facts to sway my decision. Just saying someone is evil isn't good enough, tell my specifically why.

In races where I had no specific reason for one candidate or the other, my original plan was just to vote against the incumbent. As the election gets closer, I'm thinking that was more of a knee jerk reaction and would like a better reason. For example, I'm not sure that is enough to make me vote against Skelton or Blunt. I'd still like to vote against both of them, but can't find a good enough reason to vote for either of their opponents.

In Saline county, most of the elections were decided at the primary, but do any of the candidates actually in a race have any special benefits or any glaring deficiencies?

I wish you actually lived here Oklahoma Reader. This would be the opportunity for you to actually make that difference and convince someone of something you spoke of on this forum. Got anything Smart Dog? You've made quite a bit of sense on some other issues.

-- Posted by Philemon on Wed, Oct 27, 2010, at 8:54 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Pat is finishing up video from the NAACP Candidates Forum Saturday. Should be available this afternoon sometime. That will give voters more info about county candidates, and Joe Aull spoke about the constitutional amendments and propositions, offering an objective explanation of each.

Actually Smart Dog I thing you're right Hillary would be the best man to run for the job in 2012. Go Hillary!

I don't think the Obama machine or his arrogance will allow it. Do you?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Oct 27, 2010, at 8:52 AM

Hillary for President 2012!

(That ought to get the Limbaugh crowd stirred up.)

Sad to say but in my opinion she's the only moderate still viable in the Amercian political scene. I personally lean a little left, or more accurately I lean away from todays right, but I blame Obama for getting in the way of an intelligent, moderate democrat who is loved around the world.

My view is that 2008 was much like 2000. If we had elected a different candidate (and, no, not McCain/Palin in '08) we would be living in a different world today.

What a poor state our politics are in when we are going to be forced to choose between the lesser of two evils.

Of course I am sure that following the current elections there will be a 'race to the middle' by both parties. Sadly, it will all be for show to buy votes from us poor commoners sitting here paying the bills.

-- Posted by Smart Dog on Wed, Oct 27, 2010, at 8:42 AM

Thanks OKR. There are a couple of constant posters here from the right and one from the left that irritate me so bad in their methods, that even if I agree with them I find myself wondering if I should change my mind. Anyone quoting Rush or Maher in particular will lose my attention.

One major difference that I've noticed that irritates me more about the left than the right is that at least most on the right can admit that Fox is biased. The left only seems to be able to admit that Fox is biased but left leaning sources are fine.

In this campaign season, I think I have also been more irritated by the Democratic campaigns more than Republican. I think this is probably because overall, they are expected to lose so they are using more desperate tactics. There are many examples of this, but I'll name two.

First, Carnahan has attacked Blunt from her very first commercial. She still hasn't told me why I should vote FOR her but only why I should vote AGAINST Blunt. Even on this forum, I've heard how evil Blunt is and even once that he had an evil looking face, which he does. Blunt's campaign hasn't been much better, but at least he has spoken of accomplishments rather than only slinging dirt. I'm still undecided in that race while trying to determine if Blunt actually did accomplish anything and if there is actually a reason to vote for Carnahan.

Second example would be that slide show posted here yesterday. Most of it was based on the word of jilted lovers and divorce court transcripts. Based on that I would have easily made the made the list if I were running for Congress. A racist was defined as anyone against the ground zero mosque. The murder and pedophile were a soldier and a cop who aren't in jail and apparently have no prospect of going to jail. What happened to innocent until proven guilty? And Cheesehead, if JHH or RR3 had posted the same slide show but with the parties reversed, it would have gotten the same condemnation from me.

-- Posted by Philemon on Wed, Oct 27, 2010, at 8:39 AM

It's Time to Make GOP Leadership Less Powerful

http://www.redstate.com/russvought/2010/...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Oct 27, 2010, at 6:59 AM

The suspect voting machines in Clark County Nevada are serviced by the SEIU.

http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/201...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Oct 27, 2010, at 6:56 AM

Oh wtf tis no burden but it is fun to read how you and others respond.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Oct 27, 2010, at 6:53 AM

Ariz. Law Requiring Voters Prove Citizenship Is Struck Down

Hey if you don't need one to be president why should you need one to vote. I need one to drive though. Hmmmmmmmm!!!

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/10/...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Oct 27, 2010, at 6:51 AM

rr3yv0,

Of course I read my posts,haven't you read yours? What a burden it must be to carry Rush's water.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Oct 27, 2010, at 6:51 AM

"Alan Keyes ordered to pay Obama's legal fees in birther lawsuit:

Court dismisses Alan Keyes' 'birther' lawsuit"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/10/appel...

Its too bad they didn't get a photo of Mr. Keyes just as the Judge was telling him he had to pay the President's legal fees...lol lol lol lol...I bet that jaw dropped to the floor when he got that bit of news...lol lol lol...

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Oct 27, 2010, at 3:45 AM

Philemon

I never judge an article by its title anymore than I would judge a book by its title.

The facts are located within the article where the actual report is.

That is the part I read.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Oct 27, 2010, at 12:56 AM

Congressional Report: Obamacare Costs America Nearly 800,000 Jobs

http://www.redstate.com/ben_domenech/201...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Oct 26, 2010, at 11:27 PM

This is STUNNING: SEIU's Racism Rears Its Ugly Head Again

http://www.redstate.com/laborunionreport...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Oct 26, 2010, at 11:25 PM

Democrat Early Cheating Begins

All they can do is cheat. All they can do is intimidate.

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/s...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Oct 26, 2010, at 11:18 PM

Cheesehead and wtf

The best part about quoting Rush is to read your response. Do you read your own post? Maybe you should read it out loud to really hear what it sounds like.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Oct 26, 2010, at 11:15 PM

Philemon I have no doubt that you are a centrist. As you have indicated you blast both the left, and the right on occasion.

Well here is some news for you from the left. I would also have a hard time voting for Obama, next time, and hope that he has a primary challenger.

He has escalated a no win war in Afghanistan. He has toadied up to Wall Sreet, and brought in the same type despicable Wall Street wretches to his adminisration that Bush did.

He can't even get across his message to the people when he does something that appeals to almost all. Only eight percent of the people know that we have each a tax cut provided by his administration.

I really do not think he has the makings of a very good president. Even sadder I don't see anyone else electable that would be a very good president.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Oct 26, 2010, at 11:08 PM

News,

Technically Raw may present the facts, but surely you can't seriously say they didn't present that in a biased manner so that it would be taken out of context. Read the headline and then read the quote again. The way it is presented is just begging for it to be misconstrued. Proving my point, Cheesehead misquotes it even worse just a few posts later, turning him into a great leader rather than a strong one. This is exactly what Raw wants their readers to think. Pure bias, just like Fox.

-- Posted by Philemon on Tue, Oct 26, 2010, at 10:05 PM

Cheesehead,

I call them like I see them. Those who have been reading all my posts know I'm not a big fan of the Republicans either. Case in point, Rush Limbaugh is a joke. I've called Bush an idiot. I can't think of a single Republican whose name gets mentioned for president in 2012 that I would want to see win. On the other hand, if Obama wins the Democratic nomination, I can almost guarantee that I will vote against him. I really wish one party or the other would present a good candidate. I don't really care which party. It has been years since I've actually felt good about who I voted for in a presidential election.

You say you've read a couple of my posts here so now you think you know me to be a right winger. Scroll down a bit to get my opinions on some of the issues and you will find that neither party would like my opinions et al. I've never voted a straight Republican or Democratic ticket, and it won't happen next Tuesday either.

I really think it's funny how I take pot shots at both parties, but followers of each usually only see me taking shots at them. It's not just you though. Amongst my friends, the liberals tend to think I'm conservative and the conservatives tend to think I'm a liberal. Personally, I think that's proof I'm doing something right - actually thinking for myself.

By the way, I couldn't even tell you what channel Fox news is on unless Fox 4 out of Kansas City counts. I do catch them on the radio sometimes, but actually tend to watch BBC America more than any other news.

-- Posted by Philemon on Tue, Oct 26, 2010, at 9:57 PM

LOL someone is actually quoting Rush Limbaugh. I think he was just trying to change the topic.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Oct 26, 2010, at 8:02 PM

rr3yvo,

Sorry, I'm not sure where regurgitating anything Rush has to say lends any credibility at all to your arguement.

It's sad to say but the more vile his statement the more $$$ in his bank account. That's what he does. That's all he does. He doesn't care about you, or me or anyone else.

I am ashamed that he is from Missouri.

As far as what the Democrats may or may not have accomplished so far, I'll take a party that spends money over a party that spends innocent lives in order to make money any day of the week.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Oct 26, 2010, at 7:46 PM

Philemon

Raw prints the facts and they are there to read for yourself.

As to my opinion...I left that out.

You read the article. You read the facts. You decide for yourself what that means to you.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Oct 26, 2010, at 6:45 PM

Rev. Jackson Stirs the Race Pot

He makes it clear now.

There are more black voters than there are Tea Part'ers. I mean, there's more coffee in the, uh -- in the pot than there is, uh, tea in the cup. (snickers) And whenever those voters vote in big numbers in strategic states, they are the whoooole difference.

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/s...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Oct 26, 2010, at 5:16 PM

"The people Obama can lead are those who are as angry as he is. That's where he excels." -Rush

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Oct 26, 2010, at 5:13 PM

"The Democrats do not have one issue on which they can run with pride and say, 'Look what we accomplished.' Nothing. All they can do is cheat and intimidate." -Rush

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Oct 26, 2010, at 5:12 PM

News,

Could you imagine what they would be saying if Pres. Obama said this?Hitler a great leader. Thats pretty bold to make that statemet. Fox news and the right wingers would use that for their platform to obstruct everything they could.

Phil,

I have seen you post a couple of times that you are in the middle, but in sounds like you watch Fox news. Just because you say youre not on the left or right doesnt make your defense of the right more credible. You cant't take shots at every liberal then claim that you arent a right winger. At least im not buying it and I would guess most others arent either.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Oct 26, 2010, at 4:50 PM

Come on News, the actual quote was "Hitler and Lincoln were both strong leaders. Lincoln's character made him the greater leader whose legacy and leadership still lives on!"

So does this mean that you and Raw Story believe he was a weak leader? I suppose that maybe a weak leader could have rallied Germany to such a misguided cause, but I doubt it. The man was evil to the core, but still a strong leader. This is what the Senate candidate was getting at.

The way the headline reads, I think all you did with that link was prove that Raw Story is just as biased as Fox, only the other direction.

-- Posted by Philemon on Tue, Oct 26, 2010, at 4:25 PM

Sheesh.

And all this time I thought the GOP thought that Obama was Hitler.

-- Posted by Smart Dog on Tue, Oct 26, 2010, at 4:25 PM

"GOP State Senate candidate calls Hitler 'strong leader'"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/10/ouch-...

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Oct 26, 2010, at 3:14 PM

Well said Smart Dog, and good continuation Oklahoma Reader. I'll add that I know many people who read this section continually.

Cheesehead,

I give the man no less or for that matter any more respect in death than I did in life. The name slips me, but I haven't seen anyone give that really old Republican politician who died in the last few years that was an extreme racist at least in his younger years any more respect since his death, and deservedly so. I don't respect George Wallace any more just because he is dead. I've seen quite a bit of disrespect for President Reagan on this forum, and he's dead.

Having said that, it was a good political tactic to dodge the actual arguments against the actual slide show by making a claim of disrespect. Also, go ahead and poke all the fun at Dick Cheney you want or even Bush if you would like. I believe I have actually used the word idiot to describe him myself on this forum. You see, I'm not a Republican or a member of any party. I'll call out either side if I don't agree with it.

-- Posted by Philemon on Tue, Oct 26, 2010, at 11:15 AM

I don't have much argument with what you said Smart Dog.

I had about quit posting here until someone said, News Across I believe it was, that others read this that never post. So, I have continued to post occasionally, just to assure that differing points of view are available to those who peruse the blog.

There may be one or two young folk reading it that are still forming their political opinions. Just as likely not however, especially since one now has to actively select politics to find it.

It is kinda ironic that since politics has been shunted aside to this cave, that those who have little interest in the topic, and are likely those the most ignorant about the topic, thus having the most to gain by exposure to it will not see any of it.

Oh well, anything to preserve their bliss.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Oct 26, 2010, at 10:31 AM

Is it not a sad commentary on America when the debates among voters are which party has the most crooks, or bigger crooks?

Or, the old socialism vs. capitalism debate that has been discussed by people much smarter than 21st century bloggers for at least 200 years, probably more.

But the most entertaining aspect is that we have folks who are hard and fast in their positions somehow thinking they are going to change the others deeply held beliefs through debate or argument. No participant in a debate changes his position as a result of the debate or he wouldn't be in the debate in the first place. Just sayin'.

It is, however, much fun to watch. As my favorite philosopher and physicist, Albert Einstein once said "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over but expecting a differeint result."

The nugget to be gleaned there is that voting republican will get you all things republican politicians do, good and bad. Voting democratic will get you the same result, democratic ideology, good and bad.

There are no winners here, except for the elected politician who gets a fat salary and benefits. The middle class will always be the loosers as we are the 'cash cow' for either party. One favors the top 10% of incomes, the other panders to the fringe and bottom 10%.

My biggest fear is that the majority are not represented at all, as any populist movement, say the tea party in its origins, is quickly pandered to and then taken over by one group or the other for it's own gain. Our beloved tea party who in it's origins had the middle class in mind, is now firmly in the grasp of those who stand to get rich off of politics.

Of course, my other favorite physicist, Stephen Hawking summed up the human condition a little differently. "Primitive life is very common, and intelligent life is fairly rare. Some would say it has yet to occur on Earth."

-- Posted by Smart Dog on Tue, Oct 26, 2010, at 9:30 AM

Phil

You have a lot of nerve comparing possible criminals to a dead man! Kind of seems disrespectful dont you think? I could have poked fun at Dick Cheney.My guess is you would defend him also?

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Oct 26, 2010, at 7:55 AM

Miss Marple, yesterday I was actually thinking D.L. Hughley, but not sure. It was about 9 years ago, but it was someone of that stature. I actually wonder if whoever it was actually sold the joke to Richard Jeni for his special 4 years later.

-- Posted by Philemon on Tue, Oct 26, 2010, at 7:42 AM

Cheesehead,

I read the slide show. Some of those guys could be almost as bad as Ted Kennedy. Much of the info they found was from divorce cases and jilted lovers. From experience, I wouldn't put too much credence in that. Most people who know me would tell you that I'm a decent person and extremely nonviolent. If I were running for Congress, you might find my name on that list with some of the lies my ex has told in court.

A couple even made that list because of their opposition to the ground zero mosque. I take it those were the racists. The murderer was a soldier and the pedophile was a cop who wasn't even present at one of the two incidents. Maybe the soldier and cop were actually guilty, I don't know. I do know that most accused murderers and pedophiles end up at trial if not in jail. Then again, Ted Kennedy.

-- Posted by Philemon on Tue, Oct 26, 2010, at 7:34 AM

Pretending The Union Money Doesn't Exist

http://www.redstate.com/dan_mclaughlin/2...

Where is the outcry from the libs?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Oct 26, 2010, at 6:20 AM

Cheesehead what particular candidates are extreme and dangerous?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Oct 26, 2010, at 6:16 AM

All over the country the Republicans/Tea party are putting up very extreme and dangerous candidates to run for national office. What even makes this worse is people are actually planning on showing up to vote for them. When will the Republican leaders put a stop to this? They could speak out against them, but they don't as opposition and obstruction are there only goals.Here is a slideshow of some of the worst candidates from the right. Murderers, Pedophiles, and Racists oh my!

http://www.salon.com/life/slide_shows/in...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Mon, Oct 25, 2010, at 8:13 PM

Philemon, that sounds like Chris Rock.

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Mon, Oct 25, 2010, at 6:01 PM

News please give examples of fake patriotism, fake outrage and fake shock.

What is their real intentions in their policy positions?

What is their wars?

What is their overt racism, and their collective homophobia?

What are the disaterous effects on gay folks?

What are their lies, their hypocrisy?

What policies have made us a laughing stock?

So many questions so few answers.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Oct 25, 2010, at 11:32 AM

I hate to contradict you Miss Marple, but the man I saw was definitely black and it was within two weeks of the actual attack. Maybe he stole it from the person you refer to or even the other way around. The man I saw went on to say that he understood now when some white people looked at him like they were afraid, just because of the color of his skin. He said he didn't like it, but understood it now.

This was a rather famous comedian whose name just escapes me right now. He's also been in several movies, the names of which also escape me right now. Yes, I'm getting too old.

-- Posted by Philemon on Mon, Oct 25, 2010, at 10:43 AM

Just another tidbit or two about Richard Jeni: He was a white comedian who made frequent appearances on the Tonight show. He had been taking antidepressants and had a history of schizophrenia when he killed himself in 2007, at the age of 50.

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Mon, Oct 25, 2010, at 10:07 AM

Philemon - the quote is from Richard Jeni: A Big Steaming Pile of Me (2005)

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Mon, Oct 25, 2010, at 9:29 AM

Shortly after 9/11, I heard this from a black comedian, although I don't remember who or where.

"There are two things I hate most in this world - racial profiling, and guys wearing turbans on my airplane."

-- Posted by Philemon on Mon, Oct 25, 2010, at 8:08 AM

mrxray: What I posted about Kroc's gift to NPR is certainly not irrevelant. You raised the issue of Soros' contributions to NPR. The point of my post was to show that Soros is not the only person of considerable means who has contributed to the funding of NPR.

But while we're at it - as far as Williams is concerned, he was not fired for what he said, particularly. He was fired after he ignored repeated warnings from his employer that his remarks on other occasions were in violation of the conditions of his employment, the remarks about Muslims being only the most recent.

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Mon, Oct 25, 2010, at 7:31 AM

mrxray: Here's the citation you requested regarding Joan Kroc's gift to NPR:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story...

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Mon, Oct 25, 2010, at 6:38 AM

Opps! Double post! Heavy fingers this morning!

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Oct 25, 2010, at 5:46 AM

Yikes Xray,

Here we go again! I agree with you!

IMHO, the corporations and govt. big wigs have us exactly where they wants us. While we all spat about this and that we are distracted from what's really going on. GOP and Dems are like pro wrestlers taking turns being the bad guy while the multi-national corporations continue to manipulate our laws and sell us down the river. Politics are just a distraction so that the masses are calmed into thinking they actually have some say in the process. It's all smoke and mirrors. Pay no attention the the man behind the curtain so to speak.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Oct 25, 2010, at 5:45 AM

WTF... I am not sure how firing Juan Williams shows class.... lol pretty classless to me.

BUT it is a good example of capitalism working.. he got a new job and a pay raise...lol

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Oct 25, 2010, at 1:36 AM

OMG Miss Marple: YOU forgot to provide a citation for the funding from the lady you spoke of. However, what you are saying is irrelevant to the point and you either failed to pick that up or you just are ignoring it and using a false argument in an attempt to make a point.

Anyone who wants can make a donation to NPR or any other radio station...BUT NPR should not take a stand with Juan Williams comment that really was a simple statement that many people think in similar situations when they have not fired any other person for stating radical and extremist statements regarding their disdain for the conservatives and republicans that they view as 'racists' and radicals and extremists. AND if they are going to allow their leftist slant instead of being an honorable unbiased news source then they should not get any public funding, even if that funding is not near as much as the donations from any other person.

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Oct 25, 2010, at 1:34 AM

LOL News... you are 'sick and tired of the lies on the right" but the lies on the left are fine and dandy and appropriate? WHY oh why cant you just stand up and admit that ALL politicians lie and the system sucks and BOTH sides play the same game?

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Oct 25, 2010, at 1:26 AM

actually news it is the failed LEFTIST agenda that is failing. Welfare and unemployment and food stamps and all the other entitlement programs FAIL to solve ANY social problem and only prolong the problems, make them worse and keep people dependent on government handouts while killing their individual drive and desire to overcome poverty by doing hard work.

The whole class warfare rhetoric from the left does NOTHING to solve the problem and adds to the problems because the liberal entitlements take away money from the economy where job creation is required to overcome our current economic situation.

We only have to look to Greece and France and other European nations, even nations in other places in the world and we see how their liberal entitlements are failing becaue they cannot afford their huge benefits. Take France, they are being forced to increase the retirement age from 60 to 62 and on up to 67 or more by 2018(if I recall correctly) They are increasing their work weeks from 35 hours to 40 hours per week ( The poor poor people who now have to work a little harder and longer)

YET the people fail to understand that their economy is failing DUE to these horribly costly entitlement programs because the progressive agenda that says governments should provide all things for all people has caused people to become accustomed to the government handout life style.

YET even with the overwhelming information that these nations experiemented and can no longer sustain these programs our liberal progressives refuse to acknowledge this problem within their agenda and have absolutely NO explanation for HOW these programs will not overburden our economy in the same manner as they are in France and Greece and other nations.

For someone who claims to be an economist, the whole statement that capitalism is failing does not fit into economics very well since our economy is not a true capitalist economy. Theories are just that, not reality.

The failings of our economy AGAIN are not due to capitalism but inadequate amounts of morally fit people in DC to stand up to the special interest monies from BOTH sides of the Aisle. More appropriately, the failings are due to the progressive agenda that says more and more and more and more regulations and more and more removal of freedoms by a nanny state are what we need.

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Oct 25, 2010, at 1:24 AM

W the F.... lol hug?

As to the whole NPR thing. They cry loudly about being fair and unbiased and the short haired lady trying to sadly defend her firing of Juan Williams said that it was because THEIR reporters are not allowed to give OPINIONs (Especially if they are also working on Fox News)

YET they have some of the most VILE Leftist opinion speakers on their radio stations that go unchecked and unfired.

As to the funding, I just find it ironic that since Soros gave a huge chunk of change to NPR at the same time that J Williams was fired. YET the people crying about who funds who on the right side and saying it is wrong totally ignore that the exact same thing happens on their side.

The whole cliche thing about how impossible it is to take a speck out of someone else's eye while you yourself have a log in your own eye seems to apply... LOL

I dont care if Soros gave money to NPR... I was merely pointing out another case of liberal blindness where they hypocritically cry about what is going on with the right while the EXACT same thing happens on the left.

They cry about Koch brothers giving to Conservative venues, YET cannot acknowledge that this is equal to the donations from Soros and his 100s of sub-companies that donate to liberal companies and politicians and entities all the time.

If you are going to cry foul about one side then have the testicular fortitude to cry about the exact same things and similar things that are occuring within your OWN political side. LOL

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Oct 25, 2010, at 1:14 AM

rr...

The only State that has a maximum income of $60,000 is Hawaii...do you have any idea how much it costs to live in Hawaii? You can bet it costs a lot more to live in Hawaii than it does in Missouri, mate.

What is the poverty line in Hawaii?

Just some more questions that come to mind when you go to the State with the highest maximum income threshold for receiving a minimal amount of foodstamps...since a Hawaiian income of $60,000 for a family of 5 annually -- which is the equavillent of 1 person making $12,000 a year or $230.77 per week, gross,...in very very expensive Hawaii -- is the maximum income allowed in that State to receive assistance and since the level of assistance is income based, those folks making the maximum income allowed would also be the folks receiving the least assistance.

I thought one of the most interesting part of the article was that part concerning the nature of the new recipients economic circumstances. Frankly it looks like the kind of movement one would see accompany a diminishing middle class. This description from the article seems to say it all,

"It helps moderate and low-income people who are struggling," said Stacy Dean of the Washington-based Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. "They're doing everything we want: they're working, paying all their bills, taking care of their kids, and they still don't have enough money at the end of the month to put food on the table."

rr, we can't ignore this important symptom of a very sick economy. Attempting to sweep the problem under the rug by simply reducing the maximum income qualification ceiling would be a lot like trying to reduce unwanted pregancies by simply outlawing unwanted pregnancies...it fails to address the problem and is woefully inadequate. We need new ideas because the old capitalist ideas don't seem to be helping.

Perhaps its time we take a new look at some alternative economic systems rather than continuing the boom to bust cycle and the masses of poor and working class who can no longer put food on the table (yeah I would call 42 million Americans unable to put food on the table a near-starving mass) that are typical of most forms of Guided Capitalism.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Oct 24, 2010, at 11:16 PM

Raising the income level to be eligible for food stamps what should that tell you News? Looks like to me it points to other problems not capitalism. Someone earning almost $60,000 a year getting food stamps sounds like a good way to buy votes. VOTE DEMOCRAT!

You should like this news that way the poor don't have to spend ALL their income to exist. This should be in your play book.

So many questions so few answers.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Oct 24, 2010, at 9:51 PM

So many questions so few answers.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Oct 24, 2010, at 9:32 PM

"More working families getting government food aid:

A record 42 million Americans are now relying on food stamps"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39796680/ns/...

Well maybe these slackers need to get out and get a job! What's that you say? You say they already have jobs?

Oh!...these slackers need to get a second...what's that you say? You say some of them do have second jobs and some are even small business owners?

Oh!

So how is that capitalism working out for ya?

America has problems. The Democratic Socialists have solutions:

http://www.dsausa.org/dsa.html

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Oct 24, 2010, at 8:28 PM

The Democrat Party's Long and Shameful History of Bigotry and Racism

http://gopcapitalist.tripod.com/democrat...

Gay Voters Angry At Democrats Could Sway Election

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story...

Democrats' Gay-Marriage Problem

http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?arti...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Oct 24, 2010, at 7:52 PM

My how soon some forget!!!!!

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country." Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002.

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power." Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002.

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002.

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..." Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002.

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force-- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security." Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002.

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction." Sen. Jay Rockerfeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002.

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998.

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction." Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002.

"[W]ithout question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real ..." Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Oct 24, 2010, at 7:35 PM

News please give examples of fake patriotism, fake outrage and fake shock.

What is their real intentions in their policy positions?

What is their wars?

What is their overt racism, and their collective homophobia?

What are the disaterous effects on gay folks?

What are their lies, their hypocrisy?

What policies have made us a laughing stock?

So many questions so few answers.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Oct 24, 2010, at 6:53 PM

News I don't think it was a Republican that went on an apology tour and bowing to all the world leaders so they can laugh at us. Appeasement does not work it got over 3,000 Americans killed that started their day like any other.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Oct 24, 2010, at 6:39 PM

WTF,,

I admire the way you don't mince words.

You definately call a shovel a shovel lol.

Right on WTf!!!!

Oh by the way, I am sick and tired of the pretend outrage of the ultra-right wing crazies too. You are not alone friend...there are millions of us.

It seems like everything the conservatives do is so phoney. Fake patriotism, fake outrage, fake shock, and let's not forget faking their real intentions in their policy positions.

I for one am sick and tired of their wars. I am sickened by their overt racism, and their collective homophobia would be funny if it didn't have such disaterous effects on gay folks. I am tired of their lies. I am disgusted by their hypocrisy, and I am not too fond of the way the Republican foreign policy has made our Nation the laughing stock of the World.

But I am happy to see that I am not the only one willing to call them on their false outrage.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Oct 24, 2010, at 1:40 PM

"Michael Moore's letter to Juan Williams"

"Juan Williams Is Right"

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-s...

Folks, I think you might find Mike's letter is well worth reading.

Enjoy!

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Oct 24, 2010, at 1:25 PM

Oh, gosharooney, mrxray, I almost forgot some very important information about NPR's funding. While it may be true that George Soros recently gave NPR almost $2 million, if anyone should get credit for a large donation that credit should go to the estate of Joan Kroc, which handed NPR more than $225 million in 2003. Mrs. Kroc, as you may know, was the widow of Ray Kroc, founder of McDonald's. Have another Big Mac. :)

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Sun, Oct 24, 2010, at 10:24 AM

mrxray, would you explain this comment you made, please?

"PUBLICALLY funded radio station (Funded by George Soros) "

I'm not sure how that works, but I'm pretty sure about where NPR's money comes from.

NPR is not directly funded by the feds. As you can see from the attached link, the funding provided by the Corporation for Public Broadcasting funds local stations, and that money does, indeed, come from federal sources, but that support has diminished greatly in recent years.

Check it out for yourself - I think you'll be surprised:

http://hubbub.wbur.org/2010/10/22/npr-fu...

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Sun, Oct 24, 2010, at 9:36 AM

xray,

I do actually agree with you on the immigration

issue. Hug?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Oct 24, 2010, at 9:19 AM

xray,

What's really bugging you? Are you afraid that maybe NPR showed a little class whereas FOX news couldn't spell class?

Spare me your false outrage.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Oct 24, 2010, at 9:16 AM

I just interacted with my first group of Somalis. We have no way of knowing their legal immigrant status as of yet. However, this whole concept that individual cultures and nationalities can come and exist within our SOVEREIGN borders without learning English and assimilating into our nation is foolish and dangerous.

Just the simple fact that if they cannot learn English YET they are driving on our roads without REAL understanding of our traffic laws then this is dangerous to our families. Not only that, it is dangerous to their selves and their families because unless you speak Spanish, most medical facilities have no access to interpreters and immediate and life threatening injuries can be missed and not treated or treated incorrectly or in a delayed manner simply because you are not willing to learn English.

I have interacted with many different cultures and nationalities and this is a major problem when they refuse to at least learn the language and learn basic things like traffic laws and local rules and policies.

The problems are only magnified since we refuse to secure our borders and allow any and all people to enter our nation unchecked. They just said it was too expensive to operate the virtual border and only 50 miles were covered in this manner anyway so they are considering stopping this effort.

Instead of trying to win votes of the hispanic people, Obama should be unholding the main constitutional mandated job of the Federal Government, National security and addressing the border problem and finish the walls and fences and provide REAL man power to aggressively fight off the free will border to our south.

It is funny how Mexico can condemn AZ's law and even be allowed to enter into our State law suit against AZ while at the same time they have very strict immigration laws and enforcement and are aggressively enforcing their border on the southern end of Mexico. More liberal hypocrisy. Instead of attacking US citizens for how much soda they drink or how much salt or what we can say or cannot say at the risk of being fired from a PUBLICALLY funded radio station (Funded by George Soros) why doesnt the Dems and the current Fed Government worry about REAL security risks at our borders and shores?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Oct 24, 2010, at 4:46 AM

I find it sadly ironic that Soros threw millions at NPR and Juan Williams gets fired..... lol but I know the lame liberal thought process is blind to its own hypocrisy....that is part of the disease of liberalism

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Oct 24, 2010, at 12:46 AM

Cheesehead, exactly how is it any different for the Koch brothers to fund conservative issues than for George Soros and Michael Moore and the majority of rich hollywood types contributing to the Liberal agenda?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Oct 24, 2010, at 12:45 AM

news... I stand by what I said... lol

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Oct 24, 2010, at 12:25 AM

Jo: food for thought.

ANY type of government that is big enough to provide all things for all people is big enough to take all things away.

The crux of this issue is this: In all honesty, exactly how is providing a welfare check and unemployment that is unending and food stamps and the like SOLVING the problem of poverty? I am not referring to a short term type of assistance to help people regroup after being laid off or becoming ill or whatever that might cause a sudden loss of income and hardship. I am talking about those that live in and around the poverty level continually, long term. How are the liberal welfare entitlements HELPING solve the problem of poverty, homelessness or any other social problem?

The whole spread the wealth/communism idea might be a happy thought in theory but reality is that people need desire and drive and motivation to provide for their own selves and their families.

Entitlement programs as we have today do not assist long term poor people in getting out of poverty. They simply are something that is handed out so some liberals can feel good about their selves because they forced the tax payer...or better yet the evil rich people to pay even more into a failing inefficient program. When people get a hand out and are forced to survive on government handouts while NOTHING is done to solve the cause(s) of poverty then the problem is not solve but the ramifications are that the poor people LOSE hope and LOSE motivation because they LEARN that the government will give them the bare necessities with no individual effort. When they have kids, the kids become generationally poor and grow up in poverty and learn from their parents that they can get things for free from Uncle Sam. The cycle continues until people look upon these handouts as RIGHT and their DUE.

IF government entitlement programs functioned as the liberals like to claim they do, then our numbers of poor would have been DECREASING every year until we had very few people living in poverty. They would have been treated for their addictions and mental illnesses, been educated and provided job training and career skills. They would have been taught that being self reliant is a GOOD thing instead of becoming accustomed to living off of "free" handouts that take away money from the economy.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Oct 24, 2010, at 12:24 AM

I found some good radio clips and links to different sites about the Koch brothers. They are funding the tea party to help eradicate fed govt. These guys give out money against every idea Pres. Obama is for.This is the roots of the tea party and im not seeing any grass just cash. So the original independant tea partiers have been misled they are actually campaining for these rich guys.

http://inthetoilsofoil.posterous.com/lib...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Sun, Oct 24, 2010, at 12:21 AM

mrxray,

I stand by what I said.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Oct 23, 2010, at 11:55 PM

news... some people cannot make their names and their professions the talk of public message boards such as this. Example, if you would use YOUR self proclaimed intelligence: People who work in hospitals can be and are often fired for discussing the events that happen in a hospital even if they dont mention names or even if they are just expressing opinions about the administration.

I am not asking you to believe me, nor do I care really. YOU are the one with the choice. You can simply ignore me if you dont like it that i wont state my name and occupation, or you can actually use a brain cell and dicuss and argue against something that I said on the merits of what I said, OR you can continue with your current and pointless method where you dont dicuss nor argue the merits of the things I post but you simply state over and over and over that I did not cite something. LOL

This is not a professional debate forum, nor do you win points for citing something. You can either choose to research what I said or not it does not matter and it does not matter in real life..... lol we will never solve anything here nor will anyone convince their opponents here to change their minds...

So you can waste your time with the whole, mrxray did not provide a citation statement if you want but you still are not actually contributing to the conversation

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Oct 23, 2010, at 11:55 PM

w the f... I am not going to even argue about your pathetic comment. Smaller government has nothing to do with the abortion argument nor gay rights. Those are social issues that have to be based on logic and bioligical facts OR there is no hard basis for a 'line in the sand'. So these have NO bearing on big or small government discussion.

The fact is that governments are intrusive, wanting more and more information and regulations. We are giving up more and more freedom to choose in exchange for more and more inefficient and expensive government. The facts are that the Federal government and state governments and local governments can change and redo their rules anytime a loud special interest group rears its head and shouts loud enough OR more likely give enough money to politicians. The fact is that this type of governance is costly to businesses where the goverments can make rules and regs, then change them at any and all levels on a whim.

Businesses gear their business model to the initial set of rules and then the rules change and they have to retool and readjust adding cost to their business that is passed on and paid by the consumer, ultimately hurting the poorer people the worst because they have less money to spend. And the regs add bureaucracies that are full of idiotic red tape and are inefficient and full of fraud waste and abuse and because they are rules and regs they are made to be broken, bent, ignored and have built in loop holes for the favored business of the day, which also changes.

The false argument you will not throw at me is that we are against ALL regulation and dont want ANY government because we are anti-government radical extremists... again a failed and false argument that is not grounded in reality but in the brainwashing the radical left is feeding you and you are buying into.

It is like this puppy mill law in Missouri. We already have laws regarding this issue, enforcment is the problem.... I have read that if we pass this law the puppy mill owners will only have to feed the puppies once a day per this new law where currently they have to feed them once every 12 hours. All this is, is an emotional driven law that really does not do anything new except make a few people feel like they are doing something. (One example of the problems with this puppy mill law) All they do is find the worst pictures of mistreated puppies to create some emotion to try to drive policy changes instead of using logic and common sense.

This is a prime example of the lack of common sense and the overrunning of emotional instead of rational and well reasoned laws, rules and regs.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Oct 23, 2010, at 11:42 PM

so... how is Biden and Obama going to justify their statements that Bush greatly exaggerated Iran's influence in the war in Iraq... I mean Biden said that Iran had minimal influence and minimal contribution to the weapons and duration of the war in Iraq... now with Wiki leaks, they released documents that shows that Iran's influence was GREAT, as Bush said it was, AND continued and was not reduced after Obama thought he appeased Iran and their wacko leader.

How is Obama going to Appease his way out of this situation?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Oct 23, 2010, at 11:29 PM

Nan,

Thanks for the link. I just read the review and I am considering ordering the book.

General and quantum phyisics are hobbies of mine. My Dad is a scientist, so I guess I inherited an interest in science.

I am aware of quantum entanglement and it is an area I am interested in.

Things get really strange when you get down to the World of the very small. Electrons for example are always at different locations all at the same time and oddly, electrons seem to disapear from the universe and reappear in the blink of an eye...well, even faster actually. The Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle helps explain this to some degree, but the best explanations for quantum entanglements is today being found in the mathmatics of M Theory...the combination of String Theory and Super-Gravity Theory.

One thing is for sure, the deeper we look into physics, the more complex it becomes. I guess its true that truth is stranger than fiction.

Anyway, thanks for the link Nan and I will let you know what I think of it if I end up reading the book.

Here are some related links for anyone interested in these subjects. They are all easy to understand and the documentary on M Theory is particularly well done, in my opinion.

" Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A408638

"Uncertainty principle"

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty...

"M Theory" Part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-yEu-b_Y...

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Oct 23, 2010, at 11:03 PM

john henry's hammer

I have stated my profession many times. I have cited my qualifications.

All I am asking X-ray to do is cite his wualifications that he used to qualify his statement.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Oct 23, 2010, at 10:23 PM

"NYT: Iran financing Karzai's government"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/10/nyt-i...

Ya know empire building really seems to have a real ugly side to it. Come to think of it, is there such a thing as a "good" side to empire building?

...but I digress...

Well one thing that is a problem with empire building -- besides the fact that it sickens a nations economy and makes the empire builder appear to be the bully of the World, amongst other rather nasty side effects of empire building -- is the problem of keeping your puppets under control.

Oh, one other problem with empire building...when they begin to collapse the collapse tends to happen relatively quickly and its not usually very pretty.

Is empire building what we -- a Nation that was born upon an anti-imperialistic, anti-empire building foundation -- really want? Can we really afford the high price of empire building?

Folks, Please write, call, or email your Represntitives today and demand they end the empire building, stop wasiting our tax dollars on wars we cannot win, and bring all our troops back home.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Oct 23, 2010, at 9:55 PM

"Glenn Beck - Road to Socialism: Democratic Socialists of America"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSqy3BmMB...

An interesting discussion. I am glad to see that Glenn Beck has the courage to give us socialists some air time.

Thanks Glenn!

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Oct 23, 2010, at 8:32 PM

Xray I think you have it wrong there is one reason for entitlements. VOTE DEMOCRAT see how much we care about you. I will keep my millions and give you just enough so you will VOTE DEMOCRAT. I will make all these hard working people give you a helping hand as long as its not my money and you VOTE DEMOCRAT. Get the picture. But I'm just sayin' or wonderin' you know what I mean.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Oct 23, 2010, at 6:17 PM

Yea News that map has a lot of red on it. I wonder what the US would look like if we mapped all the abortions. With almost 50 million I think we could just paint it red. What do you think?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Oct 23, 2010, at 6:09 PM

One thing about it Obama is the best man we have to campaign for the Republicans.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Oct 23, 2010, at 6:05 PM

"IRAQ deaths mapped"

A map of the Republican-lead genocide in Iraq.

Look at all those red dots...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/datablog...

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Oct 23, 2010, at 5:22 PM

mrxray

You made a statement with your epertise as a professional as the qualifier.

What profession is that? Why do you seem to be avoiding telling us what profession that is?

Don't you think that is rather odd that someone would claim their profession as a qualifier then go way out of their way to avoid telling us what profession that is?

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Oct 23, 2010, at 4:42 PM

Like there is always going to be poor. Matter of fact now the middle class is heading in that direction.And these People supposedly did everything right.Its Polices that create these problems. With the Republican ideology! And with the welfare, they don't go far enough with Policing the programs.When you take into account the little things that gos along with succeeding.A way to get too and from a job, a place affordable enough to live, the cost of keeping things Maintained,keeping yourself Healthy.Universal health care would have helped everybody! Social Security distributed in a fair way,and the Government keep their hands out of it,and pay back everything they have borrowed from it! And the Policing of all the Programs, this takes big Government and Regulations,that everyone is fed up with,but is necessary! To me the government is the only entity big enough to control thing! Privatizing everything, and no Regulations is part of what got us here! Then Obama comes in and tries to change thing, like Wall Street.And what does he do, puts the same people in charge that got us here. Does that make sense? Policing its self has too happen? Some of the Constitutional Attorneys hasen't helped things! There's to many Chiefs and not enough Indians in Washington,get us back to respect for the Commander in Chief, alone!

-- Posted by Jo on Sat, Oct 23, 2010, at 3:06 PM

Is that the same smaller and less intrusive govt. that many would have remove a woman's right to choose and criminalize gay marriage? Is that the one? I'm just askin'....

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Oct 23, 2010, at 11:18 AM

LOL Nanadot... so when Obama was elected by a majority of the electorate.. THAT was fine and dandy and the Democratic free choice way and appropriate...

However, when the poll numbers are showing Obama's favorability is failing dramatically and that many long term democrats are out of favor as well and that a majority of people are in favor or smaller government, less intrusive government and less spending then somehow that is "Tyranny of the majority" ? ROFL

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Oct 23, 2010, at 10:34 AM

JO: here is my problem with welfare and other entitlement handouts... it takes a one size fits all approach to a problem that is not based on one specific problem or two. Each individual or family has their own reasons for being poor. Born into it, lack of education due to bad choices like becoming involved and addicted to alcohol and drugs or getting pregnant prior to getting an education and career, parental abuse and neglect and other problems that are specific to individuals.

The liberal approach that is based on the thought that the rich owe society and the poor and spreading of wealth is flawed because what happens is the creation of a entitlement program that we currently use does not address the individual people and their problems nor does it encourage or force people to actually do the hard work to overcome their problems. It merely provides them with an inadequate amount of food or money without the benefit of a mechanism to help guide them out of poverty. It is merely a feel good program(s) for the liberals who are full of guilt, but not enough for them to be willing to actually give their own time and money but they instead try to force all people into paying for these programs via taxation.

But the problem with this is that if you were REALLY solving problems for people and helping them and guiding them in solutions to their poverty causing problems then people would be gradually becoming functioning memebers of our society and contribute to our economy.

I think that the majority of people would be more than happy to contribute their tax dollars and even charity donations to programs that actually solved problems causing poverty if they could be shown to be efficent in getting people OFF of the government dole instead of encouraging a life style of poverty that the entitlement programs perpetuate, especially if it could be shown that the people were successful in their movement out of poverty.

The liberals like to say that because a conservative is against entitlement programs they are uncaring, lack compassion and are just mean and other adjectives... but that is a REAL dishonest rhetorical argument not founded in reality. Entitlement programs are good in theory but in reality are harmful to our economy because there is NO potential seen in growing our economy by decreasing the numbers of people on the government dole and harmful to society because we have a growing group of people that born into the entitlemtn lifestyle and dont know anything else and thus come to EXPECT handouts as some kind of right.

The problem is that the liberals dont want to admit that individual failings and not the evil opressive corporations are most often to blame for poverty and until we can openly and honestly acknowledge this we will not have an open and honest discussion on the development of REAL programs that actually HELP people solve their problems and get them on their own feet and help them work their way out of poverty.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Oct 23, 2010, at 10:31 AM

news... one that keeps me in continual contact with the same people on the same government entitlments for year after year after year with absolutely NO real assistance to wean them off of government slavery... er dependence.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Oct 23, 2010, at 9:52 AM

People like to say that Bush II was an idiot or worse... I bet he NEVER lost his card with the Nuke Codes...

http://www.aolnews.com/nation/article/ge...

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Oct 23, 2010, at 9:48 AM

Your Professional opinion x-ray?

What profession would that be?

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Oct 23, 2010, at 3:06 AM

"Kucinich on WikiLeaks: 'American people have a right to know'"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/10/kucin...

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Oct 23, 2010, at 3:05 AM

jo: Sorry to take so long to respond.... I never said that all people on welfare or other social benefits are lazy. BUT a good majority, in my opinion based on my professional interaction with them, do become complacent, hopeless wore down, and just give up because the system is not there to solve the actual problems of the people living in poverty, but in reality it is a system that keeps people dependent on the government.

As for me personally never having been on assistance of any kind? I have been do to a poor choice I made in life and had to work hard to get out of poverty. Government assistance did NOTHING to help me overcome the obstacles. I had to make great sacrifices and work long and hard hours to pay for my training and education in my current career. However, it sure would have been easy to sit back and just get the welfare checks and other types of benefits instead of doing the hard work because NO ONE in the government programs has the desire to do the hard work to actually work with the people to help them overcome their situations and problems because the government systemt prevents them from actually having any tools to do this with.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Oct 23, 2010, at 2:27 AM

SSI became an entitlment the minute it was funded by taxes and withholdings without individual choice to pay for other people in a ponzi type scam where politicians can raid the money to use it where the government is borrowing from its self....

Times were different back in the early to mid stages of the industrial revolution and society needed to ensure the businesses were not abusing its workers and that there were safe conditions... however, SSI is basically telling a person that they dont need to provide their own retirement funds because uncle sam will do it for them. Look how many people use SSI as their main source of retirement funds instead of planning for long term starting when they were young.

It is another example of the mentality that is passed on and increased from one generation to the next where temporary benefits an temp assistance turns into a life style where it becomes expected and demands are increased for more and more benefits at the expense of our economy and worse, at the expense of the development of REAL solutions to social issues that would allow people to work their way out of poverty by helping them actually overcome the causes of their poverty which would prevent the passing down of the entitlement mentality/slavery from one generation to the next.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Oct 23, 2010, at 2:14 AM

"Spiegel: WikiLeaks logs may reveal war crimes"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/10/wikil...

"Hellfire from the Sky:

Iraq War Logs Reveal Details of Dubious Apache Attacks"

http://www.spiegel.de/international/worl...

"Right now our Government is doing something we think only OTHER countries do"

Van Halen "Right now!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMV-fenGP...

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Oct 23, 2010, at 1:45 AM

Hey rr,

ya know what would be nice?

If we could get Bush to run for a 3rd term. The heck with that liberal interpretation of the Constitution limiting him to 2 terms.

If we could get Bush back in there he could start some more dirty little wars with brown skinned people in 3rd World Countries who never attacked us like he did before.

Then we could do more dirty, nasty, illegal things like we have in Iraq and Afghanistan...and we could see more stories like these:

"WikiLeaks papers detail Iraq torture, US killings"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/10/wikil...

Well no worries mate...the Republicans will soon be back in the saddle again and the fun will continue.

But in the meantime, enjoy this clip from "Full Metal Jacket...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4sc...

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Oct 23, 2010, at 12:29 AM

Yes Nan I do understand and I am with ya 100%.

Oh by the way, the US Government also allowed slavery...at least in the Southern States. It took the 13th and 14th Ammendments to finally get it outlawed completely...if we can call Jim Crow and end to slavery lol.

Its ssd what Governments sometimes do to people, but its people like you Nan who put a stop to the evil things governments sometimes do by taking a stand against fascism.

Thanks by the way for posting the entire passage in that Mill quote...it was excellent!!!

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Oct 23, 2010, at 12:05 AM

rr

its based on a legitimate, scientifically based poll. The poller does publish the quantitative method used and the range of error, plus or minus.

In additon, the report is further qualified because it is a factual reporting of a well-known, legitimate news source -- lending it further credibiity.

...not a right-wing opinion blog...

I think perhaps the notion of the democrats coming out in masse and voting scares the bejesus out of you neocons lol lol lol...'cause if the dems come out in force, the Republicans don't stand a chance.

But don't feel discouraged rr. You and I are still both hoping for a big Republican win on election day...and nothing brings the promise of socialism into reality faster than the damage that conservatism causes when the government is in their hands. The sooner the Republicans get into power, the sooner the People will be demanding socialism. I tried hard to get McCain elected back in '08. I really went to bat for him, but it was to no avail. But I am really hoping this time around the Republicans will finally get back into firm control of the Government. Its really too bad we can't just go ahead and have that '08 election all over again in today's political atmospher.

Really rr, you could say that the Republican Party is the best recruiting tool we socialists have lol lol lol...

Let's all get out on election day and "vote us in a Republican..." lol lol lol...

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 11:58 PM

I have noticed around saline cty there is way more signs for dems as opposed to righties. The right wing lies have lit a fire amongst democrats. The passion has come alive, but it may be to late. Too bad there weren't more debates because thats where the dems win big.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 11:57 PM

My passion is running high on these Elections! Maybe i got too Blunt about Blunt! I feel the same about the last Administration because of what they left,and the People they got killed, and not just the (Republicans),every single person that Voted to go after al-Qaeda in Iraq! They have the Blood of Every single American on their hands! No i don't think much of any Politician that was Convinced by two evil SOBS ,That, that war was needed!And thanks to the guy's that died for all the SOB"S! And to think we Voted, and put these people in charge! We have to think of this when we go into that Voting Booth???

-- Posted by Jo on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 10:07 PM

Wishful thinking about Obama's poll numbers news they just want you to believe that. It's working!!!

http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/1...

http://ozarksfirst.com/fulltext?nxd_id=3...

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Election-20...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 9:39 PM

Yea but news there may be someone that got fired a year before there retirement and they stole their 401K you know those evil corporations. I would think if would be for the good of your fellow man you would have compassion and give up part of yours for the good of mankind. Oh what the heck am I thinking liberals are only generous with other people's money never their own. And I thought they were such bleeding hearts for their fellow man.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 9:27 PM

"NEWSWEEK Poll: Obama Approval Rating Jumps, Democrats Close 'Enthusiasm Gap'"

http://www.newsweek.com/2010/10/22/poll-...

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 7:39 PM

Jo...

...lol lol lol...

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 7:17 PM

No rr...

I want my Social Security. I paid it in. I want it back as was promised.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 7:14 PM

Jo,

I admire your passion.

-- Posted by Smart Dog on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 6:42 PM

News I never said that I didn't want it I just said it probably wouldn't be there when I can draw it. I can't draw full benefits until I am 67 anyway. If I was financially independent like you I probably would leave it there for someone less fortunate. You know spread the wealth so we can be equal. You're all for that right!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 6:04 PM

Jo, hun, there is no governors race in this election.

Blunt is running to fill Kit Bond's senate seat. I agree he is crooked, but that is just my own opinion of the guy, because he has become a millionaire off of lobbyist money. His opponent is Carnahan.

Skelton is running for the House of Representatives from our district. Ike is one of a rare breed, the conservative democrat, my personal favorite ideology. His opponent is Vicky Hartzler and I don't even know who she is or where she came from.

Sheesh.

-- Posted by Smart Dog on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 4:17 PM

Social Security becomes an entitlement program when we take out more than we paid in, which is what the majority of Americans do. 65 was the original age because in the 1930s very few lived that long. Now most of us not only reach 65, but 75 too. The average person on SS gets every penny they paid into the system within less than 10 years of the day they start collecting.

SSI was meant as Insurance (that's what the I in SSI stands for) It was only meant as a suppliment. We were supposed continue saving for our retirement. It has been the great governmental ponzi scheme which is now starting to unravel. I have paid in since I got my first job, but thanks to Misssouri voters, because of my full-time job I do not get to receive my SS in full -EVER.

-- Posted by inthemiddle on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 4:05 PM

Jo

you are absolutely right about Blunt.

Roy Blunt and the rest of the Republicans have promised to reduce Social Security payments to our retired folks by up to 50%. It was snuck into their budget proposal.

"GOP plan dramatically reduces Social Security benefits, actuary finds"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/10/gop-p...

I hope We the People will be smart enough to reject Republican "promises."

Its election time and this is the time to send a strong message to the Republican Party...

...REPUBLICANS KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF OUR SOCIAL SECURITY!!!

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 3:45 PM

"O'Donnell admits using campaign cash to pay rent"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/10/odonn...

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 3:13 PM

rr

I never said Social Security is an entitlement program.

I did say folks are entitled to get the money they paid in back, That was the deal when we boomers signed on.

If you don't want your Social Security Pension then fine... don't apply for it when you turn 65 -- but I want and expect my Social Security pension to be paid in full per the agreement between me and our Government. Like most Americans, I would vote against any candidate that would dare try to cut my or my parents Social Security Pension payments.

REPUBLICANS, KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF OUR SOCIAL SECURITY!!!

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 3:03 PM

The People in Missouri should get off their Tractor more often and catchup on this Governor's Race here in Missouri! Because if they intend too Vote Blunt,you better check him out, the same with Skeleton! He has Voted against a lot of good Bills! And Blunt Vote's against everything that helps the People, and will take away whats been accomplished years ago! All these clown's have on their selfish, Pea Brains, is Privatetize and Tax Cut thats been tried,and don't work! And if you don't think so, Check them out! How they can personally Bank a few more Dollars for them selves! Arn't you tired of this by now?? wake up and check things out, it don't take that much time, cut the time you spend in the Fields ,and be informed about who your Voting for,not just because Dad Voted that way!

-- Posted by Jo on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 1:50 PM

The People in Missouri should get off their Tractor more often and catchup on this Governor's Race here in Missouri! Because if they intend too Vote Blunt,you better check him out, the same with Skeleton! He has Voted against a lot of good Bills! And Blunt Vote's against everything that helps the People, and will take away whats been accomplished years ago! All these clown's have on their selfish, Pea Brains, is Privatetize and Tax Cut and if you don't think so, Check them out! How they can personally Bank a few more Dollars for them selves! Arn't you tired of this by now?? wake up and check things out it don't take that much time, cut the time you spend in the Fields ,and be informed about who your Voting for,not just because Dad Voted that way!

-- Posted by Jo on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 1:47 PM

News,

Social Security is Not an Entitlement Program

Anything that I have paid into and "earned" I don't consider an entitlement but I am not counting on SS to be there when I am ready to collect.

http://www.coolfreebielinks.com/Articles...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 1:31 PM

Not a Republican nor a Democrat nor a supporter of any other political party. I would support and vote for any viable 3rd party candidate that I could approve of, but wouldn't actually vote for one if, at election time it was obvious they had no chance of winning. I'd rather have a say in picking the lesser of two evils than simply flushing a vote.

Actually, I wish our system would change so that if no candidate had over 50% of the vote that there would be a runoff. In fact, I'd like to see a system of nationwide government funded primaries, that eventually whittle things down to the person with over half the votes. That system could actually end up with the last 2 or 3 candidates in the race being all from the same party. Sure it will never happen.

I actually try not to know or at least ignore what party a candidate is from until I make my decision. Very hard to do sometimes, but I try. I will also admit that I have voted for more Republicans than Democrats over the years, especially for president. Usually it was a vote against a candidate rather than for my choice.

-- Posted by Philemon on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 11:51 AM

I agree about the money to Pakistan. I think they have been and continue to be Osama enablers.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 11:17 AM

Philemon,

You make way to much sense. Do the other republicans know you use logic and reason?

Of course, there I go branding another, which is always a mistake no matter which side one is on.

I agree with you about the money for Pakistan, but I think we are trying to buy them off so we can still shoot missiles over thier country. I support the missle shooting, by the way, 'cause I'd still like to settle the score with Osama.

I just didn't like that we got sidetracked in Iraq.

Of course I can rebut my own opinion with another clever saying:

"An eye for an eye leaves everybody blind."

But I still think we'd be doing the world a favor if we could eliminate Al Quieda (sp?) and the Taliban.

And yes, that is an emotional response on my part. Ahh, the challenge of being a moderate.

-- Posted by Smart Dog on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 10:20 AM

Here's the problem in it's most pure form.

People are too religious about politics

and too politcal about religion.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 9:57 AM

WTF,

That silver platter is overflowing on both the left and right sides. As I said, I like his show. I'm simply not brainwashed enough to see which way it leans. Funny how anyone who makes fun of the current administration gets branded a racist though. Keeping with my usual equal time theme, I suppose being a racist for not agreeing with this administration is no worse than being unpatriotic for disagreeing with Bush.

To-may-to to-mah-to.

The real trick is to not be caught in the propaganda and dodge the bull coming from both sides.

-- Posted by Philemon on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 8:09 AM

Anyone want to take a stab at explaining why it's a good idea to extend $2 Billion in military aid to Pakistan today? This is actually a non-partisan question since Bush gave the aid previously and now it is being renewed by Obama.

Couldn't that money be spent someplace where they actually like us and are less likely to use it against us? How about feeding the hungry, especially here at home.

-- Posted by Philemon on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 8:00 AM

Philemon,

John Stewart goes after left as well but

it's not his fault the right has the lowest hanging fruit that is ripe for satire.

My advice to the right is to quit giving him material on a silver platter.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 7:56 AM

Smart Dog,

If you still think only the right is brainwashed and the evidence is because they "spew party-line rhetoric or use words...hacks" then just read the string of comments from the left following your remarks.

-- Posted by Philemon on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 7:35 AM

Oh...by the way lol...

The second part of my last comment, the part about Roy Blunt, was in response to miss october's comment.

Oh and miss october...Roy Blunt is one of those Republicans that, in support of Bush's proposal, wanted to screw us out of our entitlement to Social Security. The current Republican "Promise to America" includes a plan to reduce social security payments up to 50%.

"GOP plan dramatically reduces Social Security benefits, actuary finds"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/10/gop-p...

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 3:48 AM

Nan...

As you know, Cons love tyrrany of the majority over the individual...especially Mexicans and Muslims.

Harry Trumen, who ended segregation in one stroke of the pen in the Military and Navy, was a good example of the potential of a Missourian to be a strong and postitive force for the good of the People.

Roy Blunt's overt and covert racism is a good example of the potential of a Missourian to be an evil and destructive force against the People.

Its sad that folks in his Dirstrict continue to re-elect that fool.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 2:29 AM

Roy Blunt is found to have links with racist group known as CCC, which part of its agenda is to keep the races from mixing. This video shows him speaking at funraiser in which he makes comment about a monkey throwing the ball around in Washinton. Fundraiser for racist group and racist analogies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TAKLtEJe...

-- Posted by miss october on Fri, Oct 22, 2010, at 12:22 AM

cheesehead

the Glen Beck stuff was great. Jon Stewart definately had him down-pat.

I hate to say it, but frankly I think its true that anybody who takes Glen "the sky is falling" Beck seriously should reall have their head examined.

Thanks for the link mate!

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Oct 21, 2010, at 10:43 PM

I found the Top 10 videos mocking Glenn Beck if anybody wants to view. Here is the clip

http://www.alternet.org/media/148527/10_...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Thu, Oct 21, 2010, at 6:22 PM

Hey Phill,

Do any of those comedians, Stewart, Cobert, or Maher, want to cut my Parent's social security payments in half?

The Republicans do want to cut my Parents' Social Security.

Of these two groups of people, which do you think intends to do my Parents' greater financial harm?

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Oct 21, 2010, at 4:08 PM

I think both sides are somewhat brainwashed. If you even have to ask about John Stewart, then it proves the point. I love his show, but from an independent perspective, it is very easy to see his bias. Colbert is even worse, but I like his show even more. The absolute worst would be Bill Maher. I can't even stomach watching his show any more. At least these all actually claim to be comedians where Rush and others are just funny like comedians.

-- Posted by Philemon on Thu, Oct 21, 2010, at 3:43 PM

John Henry what the heck are you talking about?

Is it because I quoted John Stewart, a comedian?

-- Posted by Smart Dog on Thu, Oct 21, 2010, at 3:00 PM

Oooohhhh!

Smart Dog's got teeth!

Well played, Dog, Well played!

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Oct 21, 2010, at 2:58 PM

"GOP plan dramatically reduces Social Security benefits, actuary finds"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/10/gop-p...

Hey Republicans...keep your grimy, corrupt hands off my Social Security! I payed it in and I expect to get it back.

Do we really want these kinds of policies? Do we really want the "Bush Republicans" back into power?

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Oct 21, 2010, at 2:12 PM

I reckon the only evidence I have of not being brainwashed is that I will never spew party-line rhetoric or use words of any hacks from either party to make my point.

-- Posted by Smart Dog on Thu, Oct 21, 2010, at 1:58 PM

You two do an excellent job of proving my point regarding how good the GOP is at brainwahing.

Either that, or you are both making incomes in the top 10% of the counrty. If that is it, then congragulations.

-- Posted by Smart Dog on Thu, Oct 21, 2010, at 11:58 AM

2008 was all about hope and change. I'm still hoping for change!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Oct 21, 2010, at 10:57 AM

Oh, yeah, I forgot to include any smart-alecy comments.

For us to become a socialist or communist country, someone's going to have to get at least 3/4 of voters to abandon the constitution, and figure out a way to disband the supreme court.

Do conservative voters really think that is happening?

Clever fellers those founding fathers. I personally have faith in the system they created.

So, if anyone thinks that will really happen anytime in the next century or two, I suggest they seek help for the paranoia issue.

Our modern conservative party is good at exploiting basic human instincts to invoke fear? That then is followed up with a healthy dose of playing on another instinct, 'agenticity,' the need to assign blame for things beyond our control on some sort of being or individual (that being the opponent). I suggest a study of Atwater.

There's a ton of psychology in republican politics today, and voters need to try to get past it.

Wait, those who are able to get past it would never use terms like 'Obamanation'.

Never mind.

-- Posted by Smart Dog on Thu, Oct 21, 2010, at 9:34 AM

The republicans, being the clever opportunists they are, merely followed a basic tennant of political science with regard to the 'Tea Party'. I may not agree with thier ideology, but I have to admire thier methods. Quite effective.

"When you are out of power, you want the voters to hate the government. When you are in power, you want the voters to love the government."

Hijacking the tea party was a no brainer for them. They had to, otherwise the 'teabaggers' were going to split the republican vote. Also, here was a group that reperesented a way to make Americans hate thier government. Perfect.

The fear of splitting the republican vote was obvious to the Republican National Committee. Most informed folks know that prior to the 2000 elections Ralph Nader was encouraged to run and funded under the table by the RNC in order to dillute democratic votes. Without that, Al Gore is our president regardless of Ms. Lewinski and her affair which was loosing traction. I am sure Nader had no idea where all his support was coming from, he was just happy to have it and extremely naive.

To quote John Stewart "you guys are really good at winning elections, you just suck at running the country."

This sort of thing was the basis for my personal total loss of support for neo-conservatives. I was one of George Bush Senior's biggest fans, but by the end of Monica Lewinski, GOP funding of the Green Party, the Bush,jr./Cheny 'national energy policy', the invasion of Iraq for Haliburton profit ("we can't make any money in Afghanistan, dang it"), and the "Patriot Act" I was pretty much done with them.

What the GOP proved to me is that they are quite willing to sacrifice the success of our democracy for personal and political gain.

I do have to admit, though, when it comes to propoganda and brainwashing the masses, they are extremely effective. They coin terms like 'Obamanation', Obamacare, and other meaningless hogwash which are easy to remember and sound clever.

They purposely frame political issues in a devisive manner, selecting issues meant to invoke emotional response, in order to force a "one side or the other" approach to problem solving then taking a poll to see which side to be on. Anyone who bases thier vote on the hope of making abortion illegal or fear of a loss of their 2nd ammendment rights is a dupe. For me personally, I have faith that our seven supreme court justices will uphold our constitution, which is what protects us from that "evil big government" we hear so much about.

The fun part of todays conservative? Man are they predictible. It's just a shame that their opponents are not clever enough to use that to an advantage. I am never surprised by what GOP politicians do, but I am surprised by how many folks today are unable to see them doing it.

Along the vein of my 'informed voter' thoughts, it is amazing how many today can not look past thier own personal beliefs, opinions, and intuition to see the truth in what is happening to our country.

I personally blame a fellow by the name of Lee Atwater for teaching these methods to the GOP in the 80's. Alas, I have to let Lee off the hook though, as toward the end of his life he himself stated rather clearly that what he had done to American politics was bad for our country . At that point, however, he was rebuked by the GOP as they were drunk on the effectiveness of his methods.

Anyone who thinks that the methods and divisiveness employed by modern politics is not slowly destroying our democracy is a fool.

(If you made it to this point in my lengthy dissertation on 21st century politics, I am impressed, dear reader, and thank you for taking the time.)

-- Posted by Smart Dog on Thu, Oct 21, 2010, at 9:17 AM

Give me a president who only spends some money

over one who spends thousands of innocent lives based on lies and mis-information soley that a few captalists can make a buck.

How soon we forget.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Oct 21, 2010, at 8:57 AM

Maybe I was just being naive. I took the term educated beyond their intelligence level to mean something along the lines of having a degree because they passed the classes, but didn't learn anything. This could be through several means such as teachers just passing people, being able to memorize facts for tests with no real comprehension, influential parents, or even down right cheating.

Here's an example that should get my point across, especially to liberals. Does anyone really think that George W Bush is really smart enough to have earned a degree from Yale? In the interest of impartiality, where are Obama's transcripts?

-- Posted by Philemon on Thu, Oct 21, 2010, at 7:33 AM

News.

Great link.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Oct 21, 2010, at 7:12 AM

"Tea Party 'founder': Palin, Gingrich a 'joke'"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/10/tea-p...

http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?single...

With video...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Oct 21, 2010, at 1:17 AM

"Isn't it great we live in a country that can change the ruling parties without a war - who else does that?"-JHH

All of western Europe for starters JHH. Where have you been? Great Britain just did so. France a couple of years ago, Germany with some frequency. Italy? Regularly. On, and on, and on. I am really surprised that you didn't know that, or is it that you were meaning to say something else, but didn't?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Oct 20, 2010, at 11:40 PM

It's Dylan Radigan! Sorry guys!

-- Posted by Jo on Wed, Oct 20, 2010, at 10:42 PM

Wondering if anyone has ever watch the Bill Radigan show in the afternoon ,on MSNBC at 300pm the guy knows all about the Wall Street and Banking fiasco? News,nanadot,oklahoma,slater might be right up your ally! You guys would Probably enjoy what he has to say,and understand it better than i! Complicated as hell,but he can clearify it pretty well. Also there is a Political Paper caller THE YOUNG TURKS.COM INTERESTING!

-- Posted by Jo on Wed, Oct 20, 2010, at 10:36 PM

ND it looks to me like our gooses are Koched.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Oct 20, 2010, at 10:20 PM

"The only real ill-doing is the deprivation of knowlege"-Plato.

We have this quote in a prominent place on our book cases.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Oct 20, 2010, at 10:12 PM

The following link is on point regarding the rampant anti-intellectualism that infects/infests this blog, and much of mainstream America.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/20/opinio...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Oct 20, 2010, at 10:06 PM

news,

Maybe the freedom to use propanda to distort the facts about our current economic system to scare people into voting for Republicans and Teabaggers? Or maybe the freedom to give tax cuts to the rich and big coorps? Possibly the freedom to lie by stating that the stimulus bill didnt add jobs in the U.S? The freedom to mislead every person that will let them.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Wed, Oct 20, 2010, at 9:03 PM

john henry's hammer

Uh...I have to ask mate, exactly what freedoms do economists want to take away from us?

...specifically

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Oct 20, 2010, at 8:16 PM

I have always had a good laugh anytime I have heard someone say, "there is such a thing as too much education."

No there isn't lol.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Oct 20, 2010, at 7:34 PM

Smart Dog: There is nothing wrong with being Socialist! And i think your post is right on!

-- Posted by Jo on Wed, Oct 20, 2010, at 5:09 PM

Or Mr. President.

-- Posted by Philemon on Wed, Oct 20, 2010, at 2:48 PM

rr3,

Probably call them boss.

-- Posted by Philemon on Wed, Oct 20, 2010, at 2:45 PM

Wow! Can't remember a time when there has been this much agreement on the political blog with this much discussion. Maybe we are just taking the town motto of "Smart Dog Nice Folks" too literally today.

Back to my son, I will give a Dutch doctor some credit for discovering a problem requiring very major surgery when he was 18 months old. I think an American doctor probably would have found the same problem if we had been living in the States though. We did fly home and he eventually had surgery at Children's Hospital in Denver. Military paid entire bill. Hmmm, how about we put the entire country on the same insurance plan as our military. That would probably be too simple and would have no room for certain Senators to get special concessions for their state.

-- Posted by Philemon on Wed, Oct 20, 2010, at 2:44 PM

What do you do with people that are educated beyond their intelligence?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Oct 20, 2010, at 2:36 PM

Of course, the education still has to lead to a productive job in the end, I just think we would be better off with more well rounded engineers, or doctors, or accountants and such.

Might make people able to see more than one side of every issue which I believe is sorely lacking in our society in the US today.

I am afraid that we have become a nation of narrow minds on both sides of the aisle.

I reckon I'll be branded a socialist for expecting folks to be able to look past thier own beliefs and opinions for solutions to the problems of modern man.

-- Posted by Smart Dog on Wed, Oct 20, 2010, at 1:56 PM

True, Philemon.

But we better be careful, we might get in trouble for discussing history and education on a politics blog.

Oh, wait, as educated and informed voters are a necessity for a sucessful democracy (as stated by Jefferson or one of those guys, I think) then perhaps better educated voters would help clear up some of our political problems today.

Whew, I knew I could work some politics in there somewhere.

-- Posted by Smart Dog on Wed, Oct 20, 2010, at 1:50 PM

I'm tempted to agree with you that education in general was better back then, but it would only be my unsubstantiated opinion. That would probably be especially true of the liberal arts like you said. In the various sciences and maybe even some other areas such as economics and political science, there have been many discoveries and changes in the general way of thinking. Even history classes have changed with some archaeological discoveries.

-- Posted by Philemon on Wed, Oct 20, 2010, at 1:17 PM

And on the other topic, a degree in the 70's or 80's or 90's is just as good as today and in some ways it may be better. Today education just has better technology.

My worry for todays higher education is that it is too focused on 'getting the student a professional job' and not enough on educating the person. Not enough philosophy, literature, and history today. Those subjects, properly taught, make one smarter. Today it's all just get the diploma and get a job.

If you can't tell, I'm a fan of liberal arts education and for some of you out there, that does not make the student a socialist.

-- Posted by Smart Dog on Wed, Oct 20, 2010, at 12:36 PM

Good guess, Philemon, Luxemburg is it. They greatly benefited from the Benelux pact sharing currency and banking with Belgum and the Netherlands following WW2. Thier success is what led the rest of Europe into the economic union and the Euro.

Thier government is a Constitutional Monarcy. Constitution protects the rights of the citizens, and monarchy is a pretty efficient way operate. Don't need a bunch of politicians to agree on something to get things done. The monarch is more of a manager than a politician.

-- Posted by Smart Dog on Wed, Oct 20, 2010, at 12:31 PM

Forgot to answer your other question Smart Dog. I was there back in the 90's. Admittedly, that is long enough ago that things could have changed for the better by now. Kind of like how things could have changed since myself and others who tout their various degrees could find that things have changed if were went back to school today.

-- Posted by Philemon on Wed, Oct 20, 2010, at 10:59 AM

This is with no research and really just a guess based on my travels, but I would say Luxembourg. Other possibilities come to mind, but thats just an impression from a short visit there. I don't remember their government but my guess would be a monarchy of some sort.

-- Posted by Philemon on Wed, Oct 20, 2010, at 10:55 AM

Interesting story, Philemon. Sounds like your son could have used a good pediatrician and some anti-biotics.

When were you stationed in Europe?

And off on another totally unrelated topic. I have a trivia question.

Which country has the highest per capita gross domestic product in the world?

A hint would be that it is very near where Philemon had his run-in with European healthcare.

And, once you get the answer, what form of government do they have?

Another hint, it ain't democracy or socialism, which for me are way, way too general of terms for a good political discussion. Most all governments have some of each buried in them so any good political arguement has to be a little more specific.

-- Posted by Smart Dog on Wed, Oct 20, 2010, at 10:33 AM

Thanks mate, didn't really want to do the research to give a correct clear definition of Democracy. Majoring in History with a minor in Political Science, I was sure I had used the term correctly, but try not to post without doing the grunt work first.

As far as Finland, Germany, etc, I once lived in The Netherlands for 3 years and visited almost every country in Europe during that time. Where I lived, the German and Belgian borders were only about 10 minutes away. I actually had to use the medical facilities in a couple of those countries. Lets just say I found them quite lacking. For example, their answer to my 14 month old son's fever was to dress him in only a diaper for 2 days and turn on the air conditioning, giving him a severe cold that was turning to pneumonia until he was moved to an American facility. Yes, technically this was free, especially for me since I didn't pay their high taxes. Taxes on gasoline were specifically for health care and were extremely high. Fortunately, I received gas ration coupons at U.S. prices that more than covered any fuel I needed.

Another thing I remember from those three years is that the Europeans I worked with, especially the Germans, were constantly asking Americans if they could buy non-prescription medicine such as aspirin and cough syrup for them at our pharmacy. They would tell us how it either wasn't available to them, theirs didn't work as well, or it was way too expensive.

Long story short, I was very happy to get back home to live.

-- Posted by Philemon on Wed, Oct 20, 2010, at 8:22 AM

ObamaCare: Ripping Health Care out of Your Own Hands

That disparity, if great enough, will save this country.

http://www.capitalismmagazine.com/scienc...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Oct 20, 2010, at 6:27 AM

Tax Cuts Won't Cut It

http://www.capitalismmagazine.com/market...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Oct 20, 2010, at 6:23 AM

Isn't the sheer fact that there is any government at all socialistic?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Oct 19, 2010, at 8:30 PM

The right wing is at it again by trying to supress latino votes. There are urging latinos not to vote in Nevada, but some networks are pulling the ad once they caught on to this dirty trick. I'm not sure but I think this might cause more voters to come out. Check out this video and tell me what you think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKFAiMbm1...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Oct 19, 2010, at 8:26 PM

Gotta agree with that Philemon. Folks rail about socialism for instance, and enjoy its fruits every day in our Democracy. They would squeal like a pig caught under a gate if the socialistic facets suddenly disappeared.

Good grief.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Oct 19, 2010, at 8:06 PM

"Crystal Cathedral files for bankruptcy"

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010...

Awww how sad

-- Posted by Divergent Thinker on Tue, Oct 19, 2010, at 7:50 PM

NanaDot,

My question is what goes on in the mind of right wingers thinking they can make it harder on the working class and the poor?Why do they want to stick up for big coorps and the rich?

On a different topic did anyone see how a tea party candidate ordered a reporter to be hadcuffed and detained? This must be why they want smaller govt so they arrest those who oppose them. Does the tea party believe in free speech or just free speech of teabaggers?

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Oct 19, 2010, at 7:05 PM

cheesehead

Thanks mate, its nice to actually get a compliment for once lol lol.

Thanks buddy!

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Oct 19, 2010, at 4:54 PM

inthemiddle

Their are 2 forms of Democracy, the Greek form which is strictly majority rule with no provisions to protect individual liberties and the "republic," a form of democracy in which the civil rights of the individual come before that of the majority except where such would directly threaten the physical well being of the massess.

A republic is one of the two types of democracy.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Oct 19, 2010, at 4:52 PM

Obama Tax Cuts go under the radar.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/19/us/pol...

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Oct 19, 2010, at 4:13 PM

OK Philemon, the USA is not now, nor has it ever been a democracy. '..and to the REPUBLIC for which it stands." Ever heard the Battle Hymn of the Democracy? Nope. Our founding fathers were terrified of the concept of democracy. Democracy meant mob rule. They used democracy as a political perjorative to attack political enemies. All they had to do was look at the French Revolution and see that our choice of a republic was superior to their lurch towards democracy.

True we have become much more democratic over the last 2 centuries, but we are still a republic. Democracy requires too much work for the average American. It requires not only paying attention, democracy demands participation of all citizens. We have never had this and due to our population of over 300 million, never will.

-- Posted by inthemiddle on Tue, Oct 19, 2010, at 4:08 PM

Nana just one point and you may already know it. The Postal Service has not been supported by tax dollars since 1970 they only get revenue from postage sales.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Oct 19, 2010, at 3:21 PM

Hey, how many on the blog think that "Obamacare" has a sales tax on real estate wrapped up in it?

I'm taking a poll just to see how far the misinformation has spread.

-- Posted by Smart Dog on Tue, Oct 19, 2010, at 2:33 PM

Good campfire song wtf.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Oct 19, 2010, at 1:18 PM

"Kum bay ya, my Lord, kum bay ya"

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Oct 19, 2010, at 1:14 PM

For whatever it is worth I haven't posted much on here because it has become like the political races that we are constantly being bombarded with on the radio and TV. Each post seems to be about cutting the other person down or blaming someone for all our/their problems. Not pointing fingers because I'M GUILTY of it too. If seems every post tries to get a dig in about how the other person is wrong, they don't trust them or whatever it may be. It is easy to respond to emotion on these post, I am learning to read them and think a while before I respond. Reading through the recent post, I read News response to John and I had to go back and reread it because it only contained thought and opinion and their was nothing in it trying to tear the other person down. It was refreshing to read even if I didn't agree with all of it. It was thought provoking. This may come as a surprise News but hats off to you mate, well done.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Oct 19, 2010, at 12:11 PM

News,

Regardless if others agree with you or not at least you bring facts to the table. You are an economist so your opinion should be held in high regard, but to those on the right its not. When it comes to economy or climate change they look to their Fox news,Limbaughs,Palins,and Bush cronies. Even though none of them are experts in anything thats were they look for answers.They worry that minorities might have as much as them someday.

So news keep up with the good posts the Democrat News should actually be paying you for bringing some common sense and facts not just propaganda.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Oct 19, 2010, at 11:24 AM

It amazes me that some folks just can not stretch their minds enough to discern that economic systems and political systems are completely intertwined, especially in a Democracy such as ours. It is even more astounding when reasons for this have been painstakingly described over, and over on this blog.

Good grief.

News likes to tell us over and over again how "scientifically" socialism works so well in a democracy. Besides not really being scientific at all, I see many fallacies in this after doing quite a bit of research on the subject a few months back.

First of all, look at our recent presidential elections. A 60/40 split would be a landslide. That could probably be brought forth that at least 40% of the people would be against a change as drastic as socialism. It would be hard to accomplish anything with that many against it, minimum.

Second, being a democracy means that the politicians in favor of it could and probably would be voted out rather easily. Then economic policies would be shifted. I doubt if any economic system would work well with that instability.

Personally, I only see socialism working in a totalitarian environment such as China or the old USSR. If he people have no vote and therefore choice, then it will work, at least until they exercise their only method of voting -- outright rebellion.

-- Posted by Philemon on Tue, Oct 19, 2010, at 10:56 AM

JHH,

Organized religion of every flavor is a business. There's not necessarily anything wrong with that if you happen to be interested in the product they are selling.

It's simply an observation more than it is a condemnation.

Maybe you can also explain this to me. Alot of the very people who are screaming about "big government" also want that very government to deny a woman's right to choose and to determine who someone is allowed to marry. To me, that is the most radical example of "big government".

How am I supposed to take any thing those people say seriously. Do they only want small govt. as it applies to them? It doesn't, or at least it shouldn't work that way. Everything else,

spending, borders etc. seems trivial by comparision.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Oct 19, 2010, at 10:11 AM

It amazes me that some folks just can not stretch their minds enough to discern the difference between economic systems, and political systems. It is even more astounding when said differences have been painstakingly described over, and over on this blog.

Good grief.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Oct 19, 2010, at 9:42 AM

China is just so amazing. I can see why the people love it there so much. Probably the only problem that country has is all those illegal immigrants trying to get there from America to escape the human rights violations so dominant here. Did you know that some people pay their life savings to criminals just to get a spot in a crowded transport hold just to get over there? It's so wonderful that I"m surprised you haven't traded up again and moved from Australia to China by now.

-- Posted by Philemon on Tue, Oct 19, 2010, at 7:27 AM

"Did the 111th Congress get a bad rap?

The Congress now coming to a close may just be the most productive one in 50 years"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39723961/ns/...

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Oct 19, 2010, at 4:53 AM

JHH

I believe the Soviet Union fell because of economic collapse, the result of trying to compete in a arms build up with the United States. Unlike the USA, the USSR could not borrow 70% of the cost from Japan as the USA did under Reagan (in return for huge trade concessions which favored the Japanese and contributed greatly to the Reagan Recession of the '80's), and as a result of the economic drain of their war in Afghanistan.

However, the Soviet Model is not a model of Communism but rather a model of Stalinism...2 completely different things. No Western Socialist that I am aware of would ever wish that even on their own worst enemy...lol.

As for the Chinese...if you call the People collectively owning 51% of every business "capitalism"... then great, I am all for that kind of captialism. The Chinese are following Deng's plan as adopted by the Central Committee of the Communist Party of China. So far its going exactly as Deng planned it. The Chinese know it commonly as "the Plan." It allows for a mild form of capitalism with the People, through the State, retaining 51% of the profits and control of every company in China. Ultimately, the plan calls for the wealth of the small wealthy class to be forfeited to the People. The purpose was 3 fold...1 to end homelessness, 2 establish a large middle class, and 3 to increase Chinese technology. In the end, the Plan then calls for a return to a more pure form of socialism and yes Deng did set specific dates that specific economic watermarks should be accomplished, and, thus far, the Chinese are right on tract with Deng's predictions. As I said, so far the Plan is going great and of course China remains a successful, modern socialist state.

I would prefer to see a more direct form of democracy to accompany the Chinese socialism as well but for now the Chinese People seem happy with the indirect form of Democracy they currently use.

Of course I am not suggesting either the Soviet model or the Chinese model for the USA. In fact, I have many criticisms of both the Soviet and Chinese models. I prefer a hybrid system much more similar to the models we see in Scandinavia today.

JHH, you may not be aware of this but there are many forms of communism and socialism, Its unfortunate that well planned socialist nations have sometimes fallen into the hands of despots such as Stalin, but given that Country's long history of totalitarianism -- both communist and capitalist -- its not surprising that someone like the Csar or Stalin could end up in power.

However, the American model of socialism as proposed by the CPUSA and the Democratic Socialist Party both call for a socialist economic system consistant with our Constitutional Republic, our Constitutional protections, and our Democratic form of Government. Many, if not most, Western Socialists today would probably agree that Communism and other forms of Socialism cannot succeed for long without a democratic form of government with strong civil rights to protect the individual from tyrrany of the majority. In fact, the lack of this kind of democracy in China may well be its downfall. Socialism is a system that ultimately requires a free and open, democratic society to succeed. The lack of democracies in the former Soviet Block ensured the eventual failure of their attempts at socialism.

After all JHH, this is the 21st Century...and Socialism has grown up, and I believe will ultimately replace the failed, American form of captialism which only works for some of the members of the society. There are way too many poor out there yearning to be politically and economically free all across the World, and they do want their fair and equal share of the pie -- and they have the numbers to get it if they choose to do so...even in the USA. When the working class is tired of being beaten down by the capitalists and the running dog lakeys of the capitalists...then they will demand and get a fair share of the pie and there is not much the rich and upper middle class can do to stop them -- given that the working class voting as a block can way out-vote all the rich and upper-middle class put together. Such is the power of the little guy in a democracy and unlike capitalism, where the number of economic votes you get depends on how many dollars you have, in the voting booth each person is truly equal. And its there in the voting booth that socialism will become the dominant economic force in our great Nation and the power of the rich a thing of the past.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Oct 19, 2010, at 2:46 AM

I think public financing of campaigns would be the answer. Then the people would have more of a say of what goes on in Washington. Then we should keep those tax cuts from going to the wealthy and put it towards infrastructure.Then maybe we could focus on some of the real problems this country faces.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Mon, Oct 18, 2010, at 11:48 PM

Read it, and weep. Then kiss democracy good by.

http://www.truth-out.org/robert-reich-th...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Oct 18, 2010, at 10:50 PM

Just in case you didn't think organized religion was nothing more than a business.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101018/ap_o...

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Oct 18, 2010, at 10:12 PM

No one said communism was great, but the point is that sometimes people need help and those that don't often forget about others. It is unchristian and unamerican to let people suffer, just because some want to give the rich tax cuts, increase defense funding, give wall street bailouts, and to save the oil and natural gas compainies. None of that is more important than health care and helping those in need.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Mon, Oct 18, 2010, at 10:01 PM

...and speaking of choices...

"Sicko - Chilling Excerpt by Tony Benn"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnserZOf1...

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Oct 18, 2010, at 7:45 PM

Wasn't talkin bout Jesus. Talkin bout choices.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Oct 18, 2010, at 6:05 PM

If anybody wants to know what a right wing Jesus would actually sound like I will post a video for all to watch. This is the Jesus some Republicans believe in, but not what we have learned.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t08kEkoqE...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Mon, Oct 18, 2010, at 3:55 PM

Just to provoke thought, not argument, consider the following.

Joe Schmoe bought a used car from Sneaky Sales, who invariably rips people off. Joe got it fixed in his mind that he had got a wonderful deal from Sneaky. He went about proclaiming that everyone should buy their used car from Sneaky.

Some people said nothing in reply to Joe. They had bought their used car from another dealer, were satisfied, so silently went on their way.

Others knew that Joe wasn't the brightest bulb, and tried to tell him that he had gotten ripped off.

A third group became irked at Joe's constant in their faces praise of Sneaky's deal, told him he was an idiot, and to stay away from them.

Moral: No matter what one thinks is best, they should give the good news to everyone.

Alternate moral: Some people hunt ducks wearing a blind fold. In that case it is the quack that counts.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Oct 18, 2010, at 1:35 PM

Or have you forgotten the greatest commandment Jesus CHRIST gave? -- Posted by Smokin' Cheetah on Fri, Oct 15, 2010, at 5:42 PM

It is this commandment that I must proclaim the truth, and the good news. -- Posted by john henry's hammer on Sat, Oct 16, 2010, at 7:02 AM

hey jhh - the greatest (first) commandment according to jesus of nazareth is to love the lord your god with all your heart, mind, strength, and soul (with all your being essentially) and that you love your neighbor as yourself. what man refers to as the "great commission" is a mission or purpose statement given to believers - but it is not "the greatest commandment".

just one believer's humble opinion - but one that i believe is based on scripture.

hey cheetah - don't give up on all believers.

zeke

-- Posted by zeke on Mon, Oct 18, 2010, at 10:28 AM

Some good stuff there JHH. I will wait on Xray to see what he suggests. Who knows, maybe I will just say to you guys on the right that your ideas oughta git her done, you don't need my input. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Oct 18, 2010, at 10:19 AM

john henry's hammer

Socialism is an economic system. Democracy is a political system. The 2 are well suited in fact since socialism is a much more democratic form of economics as well.

However, for future questions regading the CPUSA, I recomend you puruse their website. If you still have more questions regarding the CPUSA, I recomend you ask them directly.

http://www.cpusa.org/

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Oct 18, 2010, at 8:27 AM

Xray for purposes of discussion, what do you think should be done to elevate people from poverty? There are few more important questions at this vulnerable point in our nations economic history.

Just to get it rolling what do you think of:

Early childhood intervention to correct the culturally deficient manner that many poor children are raised? If you agree that early childhood is the place to start, how do we do it?

Many children are raised in homes where books are absent, where they are not exposed to the English language as it is spoken by mainstream society, where their parents, or caretakers are functionally illiterate. These kids start off unable to communicate, are mainstreamed in public schools, and just never get it.

I have some ideas, but I would like to hear yours.

I accept your challenge. It is relevant, and hopefully it will help to elevate the discussion here to a point above the fevered fray that is essentially pointless. Watcha got dude?

How do we give hope, and a chance to succeed to these unfortunate children? Of this I am certain, you believe that we must help them.

Do not come back with lower taxes, or I will never engage you in discussion again. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Oct 18, 2010, at 1:11 AM

Right on Jo!!!!

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Oct 18, 2010, at 12:52 AM

MRX: I think you and i are on the same track,but have different idea's about how to solve them! I am one of those Uneducated,Naive,Wishful,Liberal as i can be, People you mention,but not stupid! I'm one of the old timers that has been on a hand out before! And happy for the help I think you described People as lazy dependent? The way i read you,is someone that has never been down,through no fault of your own,and really don't know from experience what it feels like? There is always going to be poor,since time began! I tried Law enforcement, that's part of the reason i left was the way you had to deal with the Poor! To see them hurting and no place to take them,there were too many! So i'm try to speak out for them, the poor,the Dependent,the Lazy! They won't be that way forever,(not all) unless we keep people in Towns & Cities & States, that thinks the same as you and ( i wont say the majority). It's going to take more to change Washington than us sitting here bantering A good start would have been for the Government to start Prosecuting from the top down,from Cheney,Bush, Tom Delay and all the Law breakers. Any of them that has even been suspect of breaking the Law, Sit a precedent! That would be the good part,i would like to be the Arresting Officer! This is not going too happen,short of a Revolution! But all we can do keep chipping away and keep on a keepin on! Lighten up on the Liberals, until all of us can find a way! You won't miss that much more for the Social well being of others.Grip at them about, funding the War! It might make you feel better about yourself,if that's possible? hope this makes you under stand,i'm not for either one of the Parties,but the lesser of two evils! Have a goodnite!

-- Posted by Jo on Sun, Oct 17, 2010, at 11:17 PM

Oh and x-ray

yeah sometimes I am in Australia and sometimes I am in Kansas City.

But don't worry...I always get my vote in on time in every Missouri/National election. I guess you could say my one vote is canceling out your one vote lol...

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Oct 17, 2010, at 10:57 PM

mrxray

Both the Communist Party of the United States and the Democratic Socialists Party of the United States are lawful political parties that support our democratic form of Government, our Constitution, and believe in working for change within the law and within the system.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Oct 17, 2010, at 10:55 PM

In keeping with newsacross's thought process.... all of you who are crying about the evil big corporations and their ties with the government... you sound like the vile Marxist theorists. Their concepts were this:

Marxism is essentially a method of analyzing history through the vehicle of economics. In Marxist thinking, there are two classes of people who will always be engaged in what Marx termed the "class struggle":

The Bourgeoisie: The rich, those who own land, the owners of factories, the capitalists who only get richer by exploiting the labor of the workers. In capitalist societies, they are the owners of the "means of production."

The Proletariat: The workers who are always helpless and exploited.

Any failures along the path to the manifest destiny of true communism are always attributable to the idea that true communism has not yet been achieved, therefore Marxist theory cannot be falsified. It can never be proved wrong. There can never be, by definition, enough communism, and the remedy to the problems caused by insufficient communism is always more and more fervent communism.

So from this point forward I might just have to consider some of you advocates for Communism which we all know has failed due to its, radical islam-like thought that the world must bow to their desires and the only way to achieve full communism is by violent revolution and murdering of the Wealthy class of people.

So I ask you, are you condoning the violent overthrowing of our government?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Oct 17, 2010, at 9:19 PM

JO: exactly what entitlement program of the progressive left has actually helped people out of poverty, helped eliminate poverty?

What US government sponsored program has actually addressed nation-wide homelessness and been successful in eliminating people from being homeless?

We provide handouts and nothing to help them dig their way out of poverty. We provide random soup kitchens and shelters but no means to solve the problems that caused them to be homeless. We shove them off our streets and out of sight so we can pretend they are not there.

YET welfare and food stamps and any other type of program does not actually honestly address WHY people are poor and homeless and then address those individual specific reasons. We try to have a tax payer sponsored entitlement program so the liberal progressives 'feel' like they are helping and providing for the poor and homeless, YET the lefties, as a whole contribute LESS out of their own pockets in FREE WILL contributions, than their rightie conterparts. The whole idea is that if they can created a mandated tax payer funded entitlement program then they can keep more of their own money to their selves... lol

The whole issue of poverty and homelessness has to be taken down to an individual level and address the actual REAL LIFE problem(s) that caused them to be poor and/or homeless.

What I mean is not all people are poor for the same reason. Some dropped out of high school, did not go to college or a trade school. Some got pregnant and could not finish high school. Some became addicted to drugs or alcohol. Some have mental illness. Some were born into poverty and have been forced to think, by society, that living off of the government dole is normal and that there is nothing wrong with it. Some have had learned behavior that no one really cares and that all they can hope to achieve is welfare and food stamps because of the cycle of poverty that one size fits all entitlement programs creates. Then there are some that got laid off from a good job and never rehired and they dont have the skills to find another job or there are no other jobs around. Some got caught in the housing crisis but some of these knowingly got into a home loan they could not afford while some did not.

But when you just tell the poor people, here is your welfare check and your food stamps card and see you next month, what are you doing to actually SOLVE the problem? NOTHING, yet the liberals feel good while the tax payer suffers and is penalized for a program that is not SOLVING a problem but in reality making the problem worse because more and more new generations are just accepting the life style of being a slave to the government handout.

I would love a HONEST discussion and investigation into the problem of poverty and homelessness but until we get the idea out of our head that a tax payer entitlement program is actually doing good we will never actually fix the problem... but then the lefty Democrats view the poor people one of their majore voting bases...

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Oct 17, 2010, at 9:12 PM

"Newsweek: How Tea Partiers get the Constitution wrong"

http://www.newsweek.com/2010/10/17/how-t...

Food for thought...especially in this election season.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Oct 17, 2010, at 9:04 PM

Who did not see the Sunni's who switched to "our side" once again returning to their real side, that of the TERRORIST, murderer of innocents... er infidels? But then it is just random, unconnected acts of terror and not a real example of their religious teachings right?

But again, Obama declared the war in Iraq over and won....lol

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Oct 17, 2010, at 9:01 PM

Jo: Come on be realistic. If there were not men wearing Armani suits, as you state as a means of insult, there would not be a ton of jobs.

The whole concept that Repubs dont want any government regulation is a false statement and a false argument created by a Democrat party who conducts fear mongering tactics and tries to create class warfare and many of the uneducated and liberal naive people just buy into that without actually looking at reality.

The problem with regulations is the exact same thing that is wrong with Politics...money influences laws and policies AND the development or regulations for any industry.

The next biggest problem is that there is NO accountability for each individual's actions. Corporations are made up of a bunch of individuals. However, since our policians such as the Democrat Rangle, Waters, Reid who are caught up in ethics violations charges, are not held accountable for their actions and violations of ethics rules and possibly laws then the individuals in big corporations who donate money to their campaigns are not going to be held accountable either.

You have Democrat black caucus member violating their OWN rules about scholarship money and how they are not supposed to give it to family memebers but more and more of the Black Caucus members are being found to have done exactly that...

Rangle sat on the Tax law writing committee and then turns around and violates tax laws and STILL has not been tried in the House where Pelosi (Dem) stated she was going to run the most ethical House ever....

How can general citizens who happen to have the money to donate to influence campaigns and policy and regulations be expected to adhere to rules and ethics when our own long term CAREER and CORRUPTED politicians are not held accountable?

And this is not to say that Republicans do not have the same problems because they do... but the left cannot admit their failings YET are quick to point out the problems in the other party. Maybe if EACH party policed their own people and did it in PUBLIC with harsh penalaties and having them Kicked out of Congress, THEN the fear of the rule of law and its consequences would be more applicable to those at the corporation level.

However, to make a silly blanket statement that Republicans are against ANY rules is naive, uneducate or just plain lazy statements.

But really this is a societal problem not a political one. How many people bend the rules or ignore the rules or attempt to find any and all loop holes that they can and then take advantage of them? EVERYONE who every uses a tax preparer is guilty of this to some degree. LOL But the "Keep up with the Jones", ME ME ME attitude is not the fault of corporations.

I know many of you dont like Beck, but the major point of his rally in DC was exactly that, we need to restore HONOR and ETHICS and MORALS in our society as well as our Politics or we are just going to continue down the path to national ruin. And that is NOT party specific even though you lefties wont admit that.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Oct 17, 2010, at 8:56 PM

Obama is trying to get some oversight on all the agencies we actually need! If we didn't have what little watch dog's we have,the Democrats or the Republicans would Pick us all like Chickens.They do anyway! Were is there another Job that lets the Employees set their own Wage and Compensation's Package? Wear Armani Suites that we Pay for! Have Dinners fit for a king,while many, many, American starve? And then have the audacity too make Laws that keep other People starving? You know even Al Capone feed the Poor,with soup kitchens! The Government under Roosevelt Brought us out of the Depression, (Democrat) Not unlike we have now,but most of his Congress & Senate helped out! Now think of what Obama is going through now, with most going against everything he tries? There should be no Term Limits on a good President! Let the People decide, after we cleanup the Voting System & ever other System they control! Frankly in my opinion,what we have now is no different than the Cosa Nostra! I think our Government has picked up some of their methods,years ago! Just a thought!

-- Posted by Jo on Sun, Oct 17, 2010, at 3:44 PM

"Europe's right rises again: 13 percent of Germans want a 'Fuhrer'"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/10/13-pe...

I bet moderate and progressive Germsns must be as shocked at the rise of the NAZIs in their Country as moderates and progressives are at the rise of the Teabaggers in the USA.

I know I sure am shocked.

How long will it take for swing voters to figure out that conservatives are bad for America? One might have thought our experience under Bush would have been enough for most folks.

Apparently not...

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Oct 17, 2010, at 2:55 PM

john henry's hammer

You are blaming the colonialists for what the imperialists did to them?

Gees...that takes a lot of nerve.

I bet you must really detest India and the United States...both also former colonies of the British.

As for me, I have 2 countries...Australia and The United States. When either of these 2 countries is wrong about something, I point it out and I do it fast...but to blame them for being former victims of imperialism? No I would not go that far mate. I will leave that to you and the teabaggers lol lol lol.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Oct 17, 2010, at 2:26 PM

I will concede that we are all biased but I will not concede that we all lie. Big difference.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Oct 17, 2010, at 12:12 PM

You know xray and John it's funny how the libs fuss about Fox News or Rush being biased. Do they not think they are biased? I will be the first to admit I am biased. We are all biased and always will be. It's not about 'left' and 'right' either it is about 'right' and 'wrong'. Most of this was in the 'wrong' 'Speak out' column but I thought I would make my comment in the 'right' place.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Oct 17, 2010, at 9:25 AM

Oklahoma Reader

Yes I saw that mate.

I would like to point out I predicted that in this forum a number of years ago. The Iraqis weren't as stupid as the Republican "leardership" who planned and carried out this war of agression. They knew there was no way we would stay forever. They knew time was on their side. But after all, Iraq -- and its natural resources -- belong only to the Iraqi People.

I think this will be very interesting to watch as that thread of American Imperialism continues to unravel.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Oct 17, 2010, at 6:42 AM

news... and the Spend even more and borrow even more policies of the left... lol

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Oct 17, 2010, at 6:03 AM

Oldest living Nazi confesses to being a Republican legislator re-inacter. http://satiricalpolitical.com/2010/10/15...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Oct 17, 2010, at 1:17 AM

News from the war that is over...NOT!

Fighters well trained by us quitting to join Al Quaeda in Iraq. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/17/world/...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Oct 17, 2010, at 1:02 AM

rr3yv0

Yeah you would think so mate, but then it never shrank any of the 8 years under Bush and in fact Bush, fully supported by conservatives, reached new spending records every year.

Lest we forget the "spend and borrow" policies of the Republican Party.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Oct 16, 2010, at 10:39 PM

Even though America's leading morning woman's talk show hosts, Whoopi and Joy claimed that Tim McVeigh was a christian, this is an untruth as documented by Tim McVeighs own words in many letters... he stated many times he was Agnositic and did not believe in heaven and hell. He claimed Science was his religion... and according to the people who wrote about McVeigh, "American Terrorist: Timothy McVeigh and the Oklahoma City Bombing" (ReganBooks, 2001) written by Lou Michel and Dan Herbeck, McVeigh claimed to not be religious and stated that he was agnositic while they were interviewinn him for this book. His history from know acquaintences supports this as well....

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Oct 16, 2010, at 9:17 PM

JHH... you are dealing with the mechanism on the left that shows their true hypocrisy, as per normal statements... they want to villianize ALL Christians based on a few radical and extreme examples of SOME people who have misunderstood or distorted the bible or some protestant variation of religion to commit crimes or evil acts such as the Westboro church in Topeka. In these examples, that the liberal maniac media publicizes over and over and rather loudly, the 'churches' or people involved did not speak for the entire baptist denomination nor for all of Christianity. The groups are made up of a few mentally challenged people and they conduct their selves in a manner that is obvious to be OUTSIDE the normal behavior patterns of Normal Christians...

The Leftist ignore this point...actually blatantly disort reality in an attempt to make it seem like these groups represent all Christians.

HOWEVER, when you flip this over to the Muslims and the religion of Islam, where you have MILLIONS of radical extremist terrorist conducting actions of terror and murdering of innocent people all around the world where these radical DO represent a major portion of the Islam Religion, the leftists then change their tune and claim that even though there are millions of people in the Islam religion who view the purpose of their religion to convert or destroy those who wont convert, that somehow in the leftist twisted logic these millions of radical muslims do not represent a major portion of the entire religion....

If you are going to say that a few radical people who use Christian religion to conduct radical acts in the US represent the entire Christian religion and all of its denominations then you ALSO have to claim that millions of radical muslims commiting acts of terrorism and murdering of innocent people ALSO represents their entire religion and therefore treat both religions in the same manner... except adjusting for the fact that there are a greater percentage of muslims conducting radical acts than there are in the protestant religions in current time....

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Oct 16, 2010, at 9:05 PM

lol JO:

Always always the conservatives... right... right.... there is no openmindedness here. lol

But you do make a valid point about the changes.... the Government ALWAYS creates bills and laws and policies and programs that are inefficient and wasteful and abuse-filled with many many loopholes for people of various special interest groups to take advantages of. And any changes to 'improve' said programs ALWAYS makes them more complicated and creates more red tape and in the case of anything Obama, 100s or 1000s or brand new bureacracies and government entities.

The government does not solve probmes it creates more new ones and complicates the existing ones.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Oct 16, 2010, at 8:46 PM

It is a good thing people teach their kids about Santa Claus, and go to great lengths to assure them that it is all true.

Due to that it makes the let down easier when they later find out about the myths of religion.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Oct 16, 2010, at 8:22 PM

The Federal Reserve Mandates Inflation

http://www.capitalismmagazine.com/market...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Oct 16, 2010, at 6:13 PM

After a record deficit the previous fiscal year I would hope it would shrink. Go figure!!!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Oct 16, 2010, at 6:06 PM

"Democrats shrank US spending, deficit in last fiscal year, figures show"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/10/democ...

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Oct 16, 2010, at 4:32 PM

Philemon

I would submit the suggested paper but Nobel Laureate and Economist Paul Krugman already beat me to it.

"Paul Krugman on "The Return of Depression Economics?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5r17NrIM...

http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/5...

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/opinion/ed...

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/

http://www.nytimes.com/ref/opinion/KRUGM...

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Oct 16, 2010, at 4:29 PM

Xray,

Tactics? You want to whine about tactics? Cry me a river.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Oct 16, 2010, at 6:40 AM

News,

I think my FATHER's memory is doing fine. I must be older than you think. I agree, I think some of your fellow economists might be underestimating things, but what do I know, I'm not an economist. I do have a degree in history though. From history, I think your comparing the current state of affairs is laughable. I 'm not saying that it couldn't get there, especially under the current administration, but not yet. Maybe you should write a paper and submit it to your peers for review.

I'm headed out of town right after posting this, so it could be a while before I can reply any further.

-- Posted by Philemon on Sat, Oct 16, 2010, at 6:26 AM

I was reading about the CRA act 1977. Looks like there's been so many fingers in that pie,with Legislative,Regulatory,& Reform Proposals you would have to be a legislator to understand all of it! Sounded like a good idea, in the beginning But the Problem is ,there's been too many finger's in that pie,like any other good idea they come up with! You could under stand Changes that made it better,but they never make anything better, just more Complicated and it does get their fingers in the pie! And its usually the Conservatives! Read about it.You may see this for yourselves!

-- Posted by Jo on Sat, Oct 16, 2010, at 5:05 AM

news. here is a simple point blank question I want you to answer. Here are some statements based on fact. After reading them I want you to justify your statement that it was Bush's policies that caused our economic problems

1. Community Reinvestment act (CRA) was a Carter (Dem) policy that stated all people had the right to own a home regardless of their ability to pay the loan and their credit history in an attempt to get minorities into home ownership in hopes to help urban environments.

2. Bush I did not do much with the CRA and Clinton and the progressives pushed this agenda again and revised it under the pushing and special interest groups like ACORN.

3. ACORN and other groups intimidated and boycotted and picketted local banks coercing them to make risky loans to people that probably would not pay the loans

4. Fed Govt coerced banks to make loans by charging those who did NOT make the loans a higher interest rate.

5. Sub Prime mortgages had to be 'invented' to allow people with high fiancial risk to get around traditional loan practices creating a HUGE increas in risky loans that were packaged together and traded on intermingling throughout our entire economy

6. The increase in people obtaining home loans ARTIFICIALLY inflated our housing markets to the point where people were speculating on being able to buy multiple houses and fliping them to make a profit thus causing the housing market to hyper-inflate.

7. During Early Bush II years Bush and the Repubs like McCain warned Congress and the citizens that this problem if not corrected would crash our entire economy.

8. DEMOCRATS like Franks and Dodd and others in high positions of power in house and senate committees responded to the BUSH warnings saying every thing was fine and dandy with Fannie and Freddie and the housing markets and the sub prime mortgages. (At least until recent remarks by Franks where he attempts to claim that he only wanted people to have homes to rent not own like the America public cannot remember or view recorded comments that prove Franks to be a liar.

How again is the economic crash Bush's fault when it was a DEMOCRAT/progressive program that FAILED only after it involved every aspect of our economy and only after the REPUBLICANS warned that the economy would crash if CONGRESS, not the PRESIDENT, did not fix their failing policies in this regard?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Oct 16, 2010, at 12:47 AM

I would like to point to the PRIME example of the tactics that the LEFT uses in their arguments. First they call us names like racist or rednecks or evil radical 'christians' and uneducated and dangerous militia members simply because we disagree with them... we all saw that throughout the entire health care debate and debate about any issue that Obama and the far left wants to push. Then because they cannot stand up and name call for very long before the illogical false arguments of name calling are proven to be just immature and ignorant, the left will behave in the manner of Whoopi Goldberg and Joy whats her name on the View when those crazy ladies had Bill O'Reilly on their show... just get mad and walk off... pouting little children is all they really are.

Their behaviors are like little kids who get mad at their playmates because they are not getting their way so they grab their toys and run while shouting in anger... lol

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Oct 16, 2010, at 12:34 AM

Phil,

Right now you are doing fine mate.

However, the American economy is still in a serious deflationary spiral. Consumption of durable goods and new housing starts is in decline and has been for the long term. If this continues, you may well find yourself out of work and out of business.

Then you will join the ranks of the estimated 20 to 22% effectively unemployed folks who may be unemployed for quite a few years to come. Of course, as unemployment grows there is a futher reduction in the consumption of durable goods and new housing starts, further deflating the economy and causing employers to layoff even more of the work force. Worse yet, states, counties, and cities all over the USA are laying off workers and reducing others to part-time status in an effort to fund public services in the face of tax-revenue shortfalls, also the result of the decrease in consumption and income of the unemployed, the partially employed, and the guy who thinks he and his family may be next.

Thus far, I have seen nothing to indicate any upturn in consumption in the short-term.

As to your GrandFather's experiences...well...memories are a funny thing. Perhaps if he walked through some of the tent-cities in many of America's large cities or walk the streets and count the number of poor and homeless it might jogg his memory a bit. And the worst part is that this depression is not nearly over. It has barely just begun.

Many of the conditions that existed in the Great Depression 1, such as a surplus in the treasury helped a great deal when FDR considered how to fund recovery. With todays record National Deficit + the amount our Government owes to Social Security right around 60 trillion dollars, we may lack the resources necessary to fund our way out of this depression.

There are some economists who have decided the recession/depression is over -- and I fail to understand how they have come to that conclusion based upon the numbers -- but I don't know of too many that would agree with your Grandfather's assesment, nor do I think the mass of unemployed or the citizens of a tent-city would agree with your GrandFather.

Anyway, I try to be hopeful despite my gloomy prediction. I try to stay optimistic as I can given the fact that we may be returning to exactly the wrong economic policies we had under Bush and the Republican Congress that caused this depression to begin with. Either way, yeah my life is pretty much just an ongoing, life-long vacation in Australia and barring some major, unforseen castrophe, I will probably live this way till I die...or at least that is my game plan lol.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Oct 15, 2010, at 10:49 PM

Zeke,

You might want to google puxico farmer Wayne Cryts. It's a story from way back in the '80s about a farmer who put some soy beans in a grain elevator which later went bankrupt. Courts seized the soy beans with the intent to use them to pay debts. Farmers, led by Cryts, raided the elevator and took the beans. Many legal battles later, he actually ran for Congress. I don't remember if he won, but I think he did. I was just looking to try to find out but was unsuccessful. This happened while I was in the military and out of the country quite a bit so that era of history on a more local level(I lived fairly near there at one time) is a bit fuzzy. This just looked like maybe the kind of candidate you are looking for. Too bad it was over 20 years ago.

-- Posted by Philemon on Fri, Oct 15, 2010, at 10:35 PM

RR3-Jhh-Phil;You Guys have beat the Religion thing to death,we all know how you feel! And you will probable get too that mysterious place you want to go,but i'm sure none of us can help you get there! That's between you and your Mysterious friend! I'm tired, good nite,all three of you & your friend!

-- Posted by Jo on Fri, Oct 15, 2010, at 10:21 PM

"What the numbers say about progress in Afghanistan"

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/201...

Well the poll numbers indicate this empire building effort isn't going well.

Its sad young men and women have to die in a war to control a country that even Alexander the Great could not control.

"Afghanistan: a Military History from Alexander the Great to the Fall of the Taliban"

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0...

"BBC - In the footsteps of Alexander (Afghanistan) 17"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thAS28SWK...

Someone please remind me why our kids are dying there again?

Tell me how all this dying will matter when the dust settles...cause I just don't see it.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Oct 15, 2010, at 10:14 PM

News,

I certainly do love your flair for the dramatic. Capitalism is treating me just fine thanks. I currently have the highest paying job in my life and am considering investing some money in creating a part time business on the side. My stock portfolio also has more money in it than at any time in my life. I was having a hard time late in the Clinton era and early in the Bush II years, but everything is fine for me right now. I hear capitalism is treating you well also. I keep hearing of your wealth and that sounded like a lovely vacation you were on mate. I realize not everyone is doing as well, but thanks for caring.

Yet another fantasy like I spoke of this morning. I read some of the comments here about the "Great Depression II" to my father the other day. He thought it was hilarious that anyone could compare today to what he lived through. He told me how nobody had a job back then and those who did barely got paid. To be honest, I did some research and there was only 25% unemployment, 37% in non-agricultural jobs.

-- Posted by Philemon on Fri, Oct 15, 2010, at 10:01 PM

Smokin' Cheetah

Wow!!!!!!

Well said mate!

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Oct 15, 2010, at 7:53 PM

slatermo

I really enjoyed reading your most recent comment.

You made some excellent points.

Good on ya mate!!

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Oct 15, 2010, at 7:48 PM

I have read most of your comments. There is one thing that we all need to remember is that when the candidates say that they are going to do this or do that, they can not do anything without the support of rest of the Congress. The same with the President, I am going to do this and do that, well that is a good campaign speech but if he don't have the backing of Congress, he will get nothing done. I don't care if you are running for city, county, state, or a national campaign, without the support you are not going anything done. If you are running for city dog catcher and all the dogs are against you, you will not catch a dog. I hear so many states that they want to take back American. My question is where did it go. I hear them say that they want the government stay out of the medical programs. Well, what about Medicare, Medicade, VA Hospital and some others. Some say that we don't need food stamps. Some would go hungrey tonight without it. I do agree that it has been abused and will be abused unless you have the ----- to turn them in for abuse.

That is my opinion.

-- Posted by slatermo on Fri, Oct 15, 2010, at 4:55 PM

"Wealth gap: U.S. slipping in global rankings"

http://lifeinc.todayshow.com/_news/2010/...

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Oct 15, 2010, at 3:57 PM

Philemon

No economic system is perfect, but some work better than others. How is that capitalism working out for you?

We need a new deal and we need it now. The Nations with the fastest growing economies have socialist economies and the others have significantly mixed systems with strong social programs -- and this despite the American economic depression. Gee how did that happen? lol

In addition, socialism is a much more democratic economic system because it does not rely on dollar vote to decide Allocation, Technology, and equity. Rather socialism utilizes one man/ one vote to make these important determinations. In socialism it is the ballot box that decides...not the market place...and it clearly works well.

Frankly Phil, it matters not to me if the USA clings to its failed economic system. Its not me personally that will suffer...its you mate. Good luck with that failed economic system mate...you are really going to need it.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Oct 15, 2010, at 3:40 PM

john henry's hammer

Yes every other industrialized Nation in the World -- with one exception, the United States -- pay for their health care out of general taxes. The rest of the Civilized World -- except for the USA -- find that this method of paying for medical care ensures that everyone has equal medical care access and is treated regardless of income.

It works well in the rest of the civilized World including my other Country, Australia.

But in the United States, goodness help you if you get sick. Over 55% of all bankruptcies in the USA are due primarily to medical bills. In Australia not a single person has filed for bankruptcy due to medical bills. Their in lies one of the main differnces. Yes here in Australia and the rest of the civilized World we have socialized medicine and here in Australia our economy is booming, So don't worry, unlike empire building, socilized medicine won't break the bank.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Oct 15, 2010, at 3:27 PM

So if we pay for health care with our taxes there is no direct cost to the patient. Interesting concept!!

Pay for with massive cuts to military spending. I feel safer and healthier already.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Oct 15, 2010, at 1:50 PM

Zeke I think we would have to ask someone that has run for office. I haven't so I can't imagine the political a media pressure that you would be under after they are elected. That is if they want to rock the boat so to speak. Since you were just wonderin' I was just speculatin'.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Oct 15, 2010, at 11:21 AM

Sorry news Santa Claus compared to God no comparison!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Oct 15, 2010, at 11:15 AM

so i will ask once again the question i have asked before and have yet to get anyone to answer ...

can a person run for office - on any level - city, county, state, federal - and truly make a positive difference?

is it futile for a person to think they can make a difference - or is it all in vain?

if it's in vain - why do people get involved?

just wonderin'

zeke

-- Posted by zeke on Fri, Oct 15, 2010, at 8:32 AM

Sorry Jo, you're just a bit off. The lack of substance and fantasy has been going on waaaaaaay longer than 2 weeks. Religion pops up every so often, but so do many other topics that many would consider a fantasy.

For example, we keep hearing a bout a perfect economic system that we should be using because it has been proven scientifically. This is pure fantasy and a lack of knowledge about how science works, despite touting scientific facts on other issues. Valid science requires experimentation and actual results before making claims that something works as the best solution.

We've also got the continual fantasy and lack of substance by both sides thinking that their news sources are unbiased while the other side is totally biased.

We also have the fantasy of asking for peer review. According to Webster, a peer is someone of the same status or qualifications. So News, your peers wold be economists, a scientists peers would be other scientists, a Baptist ministers peers would be other ministers. So do you realize that when you tell JHH to present a paper probing God's existence for peer review that he would only have to present it to other Christians and it would probably be accepted?

Sorry, woke up in a bad mood and had to rant.

-- Posted by Philemon on Fri, Oct 15, 2010, at 7:47 AM

john henry's hammer

As I have pointed out, Raw Story is not a blog site. Its an independent news reporting service just like Fox, cnn, msnbc, ect and yes they do have a seat in the White House press pool.

As to the health care bill that passed, I was opposed to it almost from the start. I only support universal, socialiced medicine which is provided to the patient at absolutely no direct cost to the patient and paid for out of taxes...preferably with massive cuts to the over bloated military budget.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Oct 15, 2010, at 7:35 AM

Here is the sad reality folks. None of us are really being represented in Washington.

Every few years they come around, play to our particiular liberal or conservative fears and then go back into thier hole.

I submit that the federal govt. as a whole and politicians specifically are but a mere distraction. We the people are distracted by the rhetoric and lulled in to a false sense of having some say in how our country is governed. Sure, a few policies may change slightly and one side or the other thinks they made a difference or got their way. All the while, it's the corporations calling the shots and making the money.

Divide and conquer is a very effective tactic.

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain said the wizard.

This is all by design and we are falling for it. You and I. We're all out here fightin' about any number of idiotic topics while the corporations giggle with delight while picking our pockets. There are many differnet ways to rob us too. Remember when Wal-Mart used to buy American products? Poor Sam must be spinning like a pin wheel? How much? How much is enough? How many cars can they drive and houses do they need before they have enough?

I don't know how to fix it, do you?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Oct 15, 2010, at 7:31 AM

rr3yv0

Oh I see...you don't mind asking other people a similar question about God, but when someone asks you a similar question all of a sudden you don't want to answer questions. Yeah I see how it is mate...and so does everyone else who reads this forum.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Oct 15, 2010, at 7:29 AM

News your question is not worth answering that's my final answer. You need to get out of your theoretic world and live in the real one.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Oct 15, 2010, at 7:05 AM

SC you can call it whatever you want but you still didn't answer the question.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Oct 15, 2010, at 7:03 AM

"'Bandit' Obama billboard sparks storm in US city"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/10/bandi...

Pssst...teabaggers...don't look now...but...your racism is showing again...

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Oct 15, 2010, at 4:55 AM

"AZ sheriff ordered to fix 'unconscionable' jail conditions"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/10/fed-j...

This rascal is a teabagger favorite lol lol lol...

Isn't it a shame the Courts have to force a teabagger sheriff to obey the law?

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Oct 15, 2010, at 4:30 AM

Neocon/teabagger War of Empire building in Afghanistan not going well...to say the least:

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapc...

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Oct 15, 2010, at 3:04 AM

I am pleased to see conservatives -- especially the ultra-right wing of the Republican Party, the teabaggers...poised to win so many seats in the House and Senate.

I think it likely they will win the White House in 2012 as well, ceteris paribus.

This is bad news for most Americans in the short-run since the bottom will eventually fall out of the economy when the teabaggers economic policies finally begin to have a visable effect on the economy.

But its good news in the long-run because what will emerge from the ashes will be a much better, much fairer Nation with a working socialist economy. Well that is what I am predicting anyway. Our Nation will suffer greatly for awhile with the teabaggers in charge, but once the economy collapses, Americans will be screaming for a new deal...and I don't mean a new conservative deal lol lol lol...

Good luck teahbaggers. Let's hope when the dust finally settles the teabaggers won't be swinging by their necks from ropes lol, lol, lol...

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Oct 15, 2010, at 2:30 AM

OKR

Yes it is the same organization.

...they don't mind taking terrorist money and being beholden to terrorists if they think that money will further their own twisted agenda.

Odd that...eh mate?

Also, don't worry about the light switch mate...the guardians of liberty and freedom...the real kind, not the pretend kind the neocon/teabaggers talk about...but rather real freedom and liberty as encased within our Bill of Rights...are always on guard against those who would try to dim that light of freedom.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Oct 15, 2010, at 2:16 AM

Last one turn out the lights.

Good night Gracie. Good night Mrs. Calabash, where ever you are.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Oct 15, 2010, at 1:11 AM

How's that capitalism treatin ya?

Pouring cold water on the smoldering ashes of the capitalist fire. The German socialist democracy is red hot.

I dare you to read this, and not at least wonder if maybe, just maybe, we got it wrong.

http://www.alternet.org/economy/148501/w...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Oct 15, 2010, at 1:09 AM

Congratulations Cheetah. I will remember the date of your event because my dear wife's birthday falls on the same day, and you know I ain't gonna forget that one. ;) I will write more later using the appropriate forum.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Oct 15, 2010, at 12:21 AM

G'day News. Politics makes strange bedfellows, apparently so does religion.

Correct me if I am wrong News, but isn't the alleged Muslim terrorist group that this Christian fundamentalist group took money from the same one that the stalwarts of the right, not that long ago, railed against on this blog?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Oct 15, 2010, at 12:16 AM

Republicans across the nation are out spending Democrats 7 to 1. Where that money is coming from should cause concern to every human citizen of our nation.

How many years will it be before the United States becomes United States LLC?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Oct 15, 2010, at 12:07 AM

"Powerful DC Christian group took money from 'terrorist organization'"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/10/praye...

WOW!!!

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Oct 14, 2010, at 11:52 PM

Says here that Cheney no longer has a pulse. A walking person with no pulse makes them a...naw, not gonna say that. http://www.thepoliticalcarnival.net/2010...

I wonder if a persons heart doesn't work does that cause them to become heartless? Answer to myself: Usually, but not in this case.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Oct 14, 2010, at 11:27 PM

Dick Cheney is looking more, and more like Mr. Burns on "The Simpsons. Smithers would be....naw, not gonna go there.

Anyway the evil one is out, and about again, sorta. Take a look. Some of you might enjoy this evidence of his decline, even enjoy his ill health. Justice will never get him, but it does look like the Grim Reaper may be just around the corner. http://www.thepoliticalcarnival.net/2010...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Oct 14, 2010, at 11:16 PM

How about you JHH,

Are you a Santa Clausist (meaning you have faith that Santa exists) or not? If yes, what is your basis for believing in Santa, if not, can you prove Santa does not exist?

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Oct 14, 2010, at 10:57 PM

****; Now can everyone see why Politic & Religion don't mix! **** this has went on now, for 2 weeks ,X ! No wonder this Country in this shape! They do this in Washington,never anything with substance! Always fantasy!

-- Posted by Jo on Thu, Oct 14, 2010, at 10:43 PM

rr3yv0

How do you know Santa Claus does not exist...or do you believe in Santa Claus' existance?

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Oct 14, 2010, at 6:50 PM

"GOP Tea Party frontrunner: 'Abolish' public schools"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/10/gop-t...

Goodness help us if the conservatives end up in power in 2012. Conservative "ideas" will be the end of our Nation if the conservatives have their way.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Oct 14, 2010, at 6:49 PM

i believe cheetah had his old silver tongue planted firmly in cheek when he said what he said about God not existing. but hey - i might be wrong - been there before you know ...

zeke

-- Posted by zeke on Thu, Oct 14, 2010, at 2:49 PM

did cheetah say he thinks God doesn't exist?

i missed that ...

zeke

-- Posted by zeke on Thu, Oct 14, 2010, at 2:47 PM

JHH,

Good for you. You got your thing. I got mine.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Oct 14, 2010, at 2:30 PM

SC how do you know God doesn't exist?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Oct 14, 2010, at 2:17 PM

Philemon at the risk of causing you to be cast out I am going to plunge ahead, and say how refreshing it is to have a centrist voice on the blog. I am sorry for giving you that label because it is inadequate, and confining. Most people whose reflections reveal complexity, and nuance are not well served by labels.

Thank you.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Oct 14, 2010, at 12:50 PM

JHH,

You are still missing my point. I'm not saying Christians should go out and do these things. I'm saying our government has no business prohibiting these things that a Christian wouldn't do anyway. As you said, our free will doesn't prohibit us from doing anything. Government prohibition simply punishes those who exercise their free will when the government doesn't approve. But, we don't live in a Theocracy where the laws of a particular church should be the laws of the entire land.

By the way, going out and having a few beers that can get you into trouble doesn't equate to several people I know who have a glass of wine with supper. Actually from what I've read, that glass of wine is probably more healthy for them than the Mt Dew I drink with my supper.

-- Posted by Philemon on Thu, Oct 14, 2010, at 12:06 PM

But wtf how do you know something is immoral or wrong? are you born with it? in your genes? I don't believe it just happens or you are born with it.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Oct 14, 2010, at 11:59 AM

JHH,

I never siad there wern't any Wiccans. It's sounds as if, all things considered it's a very small group. I'm just not sure if that equates to

"steeped" in Wiccans. Were are steeped in Christians, and maybe sprinkled with Wiccans?

My benchmark for my moral behavior, just like everyone is myself,my common sense and my heart. It's the same for you as well. Wheter or not you choose to tie your moral behavior to specific religious writings is up to you. I choose not to, but I don't think that makes me any less moral than you.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Oct 14, 2010, at 10:49 AM

WTF I would trust a good Wiccan every time over judgmental self proclaimed Christians, who say that they judge no one, but then go on to proclaim without error exactly who God/Jesus has judged. I think that they are more victims of a monumental ego, than benificiaries of a monumental faith. Too bad they missed the humble lessons in the "New Testament".

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Oct 13, 2010, at 11:38 PM

Who,s judging now okr?

What are the humble lessons in the "New Testament"?

Why would you trust a Wiccan and how do you tell if they are a good one?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Oct 14, 2010, at 10:21 AM

I know I may not get an answer. Wtf how do you know when you have conducted yourself in a moral fashion what do you use as a benchmark?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Oct 14, 2010, at 10:08 AM

JJH,

So now it's a discussion on the finer points of the success of prohibition itself, when what is actually being prohibited should be the more important issue.

I'll concede your expertise on prohibition because that is essentially what religion does. Prohibit. What I don't understand and maybe you can help me is why aren't your religious beleifs good enough for how you choose to live your life? Why must you demand others conform to your will?

I don't get that.

Actually, I guess I feel a little sorry for you. Your existence must but be nothing more than a continuoous stream of guilt. Constantly begging for forgiveness for some perceived sin or another.

Sounds exhausting to me. Good luck with that. I know tonite when my head it's the pillow I will

have no such feelings. I know I will have conducted myself in moral fashion and that I have hurt no one.

BTW, you never answered my question. Where did you get the notion that Saline Co. is steeped with Wiccans?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Oct 14, 2010, at 9:30 AM

JHH said, "Prohibition works. Does't thou forget freewill?"

I'm really confused now. Didn't you just name two totally opposite concepts and use one to explain why the other works?

To continue the thought line you were on earlier, I'll expand it a bit. Seeing a pretty girl can cause lust, sin but not illegal, which can cause adultery which is another sin but not illegal. A tasty meal can lead to wanting more and eventually gluttony, a sin that is not illegal. A good job and finding more work and better ways to make money could lead to greed, a sin that isn't necessarily illegal but in extremes could get there.

Furthermore, there are some churches with rules (notice I didn't say sin) that they follow that they apparently base on the Bible (that is the authority is it not?) yet other churches don't have the same rules. For example, in one church women can't cut their hair, must wear dresses, nobody can wear shorts, no dancing, no drinking, no card playing (I didn't say gambling), just to name a few. Other churches using the same Bible don't have those regulations. Personally, these are all things that should be regulated by the individual church to determine how they interpret the Bible, but NOT a political issue.

-- Posted by Philemon on Thu, Oct 14, 2010, at 7:49 AM

OKR, News, and WTF,

Thanks. Probably the thing I dislike most about this blog is that I often will agree with the message delivered by one side or the other, but be so annoyed by how it was delivered that I actually wish that I disagreed. Unfortunately, that holds true not only on this blog, but in most conservative AND liberal media. Then again, maybe I'm just the type who wants to shoot the messenger. lol

-- Posted by Philemon on Thu, Oct 14, 2010, at 7:17 AM

JHH Said:

"I'm well aware that Saline County is steeped in Wiccan/pagan believers..... I am always encouraged when the Wicca or pagans feel so challenged by even one believer that they have to attack and encourage each other in greater numbers."

I've lived in Saline County all my life and to my knowledge have never met a Wiccan. I'm curious to know how you came to the conclusion that we are "steeped" with Wiccans here in Saline county?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Oct 14, 2010, at 5:48 AM

"Little Popes"

lol...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Oct 14, 2010, at 2:04 AM

I do not know why I have not thought of this before, but I think I am really on to something this time.

I have always wondered what is at the core of the disdain, and often outright hatred of the Catholic Church, especially the Pope, by hard right fundementalist Christians.

I believe it is because each one of them considers himself a little Pope. Proclaiming here, proselytizing there, every word an edict. Listen, obey, or suffer eternal damnation.

It must be frustrating for them that, relatively speaking, there are so few fish who actually swallow the hook, and line that they each toss.

The Pope speaks, and millions jump to heed his words. Each of them? Not so much. Why didn't I think of it before? They are each, wrapped in their imagined cloak of infallibility, jealous of the Big Pope. They absolutely can't stand it when Big Pope fills stadiums with people hanging on to, and obeying his every word. Little Popes are lucky if they find a fish that takes their bait once a month.

I will give them credit for one thing. They are a heck of a lot more patient than crappie fishermen. I guess that goes a little way toward forgiveness of the little Popes, for being jealous of the big Pope.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Oct 14, 2010, at 1:06 AM

ND re: "who burned who at the stake" I think you create more Homer Simpson Doh! moments for the far right posters than the rest of us put together. Now I am ROTFLMAO.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Oct 13, 2010, at 11:47 PM

Phill,

I am with OKR on this one.

I may disagree with you on many issues, but never do I doubt your sincerity or your appreciation of ethics.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Oct 13, 2010, at 11:44 PM

WTF I would trust a good Wiccan every time over judgmental self proclaimed Christians, who say that they judge no one, but then go on to proclaim without error exactly who God/Jesus has judged. I think that they are more victims of a monumental ego, than benificiaries of a monumental faith. Too bad they missed the humble lessons in the "New Testament".

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Oct 13, 2010, at 11:38 PM

Philemon I appreciate your candor regarding independent thoughts you have. Unfortunately it brought out the attack dogs.

I will say this, speaking as a non-Christian, your demeanor when posting on this blog seems to emulate the Christ we are told about in the Bible much more than some of your self professed Christian colleagues who can't go a paragraph without citing THEIR Christianity.

Their behavior begs the question, who are they really trying to convince, who are they really trying to remind with their ceaseless repetition? Are they hugging it so hard because they are not sure they are up to living it, or perhaps knowing themselves, do not in their heart of hearts feel they are worthy of approbation?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Oct 13, 2010, at 11:23 PM

"Middle Eastern governments gave to Chamber [of Commerce] election fund: report"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/10/83-fo...

...and from there it went into Republican Party election coffers.

Do we really want a to have a Party that is funded by foreign nations and foreign Corporations in charge of our Government?

It sounds like a real bad idea to me.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Oct 13, 2010, at 11:15 PM

Actually, I believe somewhere in the bible it says to "drink of the grape, not of the grain."

I guess it all depends on if you want to follow it or not. It was probably inserted by a scribe with a vinyard.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Oct 13, 2010, at 9:49 PM

Knew I would probably open up a can of worms with that.

JHH,

What you aren't getting is that whether these are good or bad things, or call it sin, that just makes it against our religious faith, not standards that those of another or no faith should be held accountable to. You and your church should be trying to basically do 2 things. First, and most importantly, convert unbelievers. Second, teach those believers what sin is and help them avoid it. If your church is like mine, then getting an unbeliever to go totally without sin would still leave them condemned.

By the way, you really think prohibition is working even against killing. I suppose that's why our prisons are so empty. Works great to keep people from hunting out of season though. I'm sure nobody here has ever head of anybody poaching.

Also, your argument about weak wine was, shall we say, kind of weak. This should be simple. Unlike News Across, I'm not asking you to use a source that you would never consider looking at. Tell me, from the Bible, what book, chapter, and verse it says something to the effect of "Thou shalt not have a beer."

-- Posted by Philemon on Wed, Oct 13, 2010, at 9:40 PM

JHH said:

"I didn't have to label it as sin. The Bible sets the principles, gives examples, and names various sins, such as fornication, adultry, and idolatry."

That's my point exactly. Not everyone subscribes to the bible. Did you even understand what I was trying to say?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Oct 13, 2010, at 8:06 PM

Okay, I knew I should've stayed out of this.

Goodbye.

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Oct 13, 2010, at 7:22 PM

What??? You mean to say that, after all this time, your slice STILL causes you to throw your club in disgust??? (heh heh)

For this discussion, non-Christian is defined as an individual who either doubts or does not believe in the existence of God.

I'm glad to see you say that non-Christians can be as good as (or better than-my add) Christians? Every day I see people who profess to be Christian displaying attitudes and behaviors to the contrary.

And we have people like Jo, NanaDot, WTF, and others, for example, who are non-Christian by their own admission but have goodnes in their hearts and I'm certain behave in a reputable manner toward others - maybe living by the Golden Rule.

The Christian religion doesn't have a corner on the morals market, in my view. Good people of all faiths and non-faiths inhabit every part of this earth, and I see no reason(s) why our differing views, religious or otherwise, should interfere with a peaceful coexistence, relatively speaking.

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Oct 13, 2010, at 5:29 PM

JHH,

I think the fundamental flaw in your arguement is that you label activities that you don't agree with as "sin."

It seems as if you expect everyone else to adhere to or live by the standards as dictated by your religion. Seems like there is alot of that going on these days. Wait a minute, I forgot. We have been warring about religion in one way or another since the dawn of man. I guess it's nothing new. I've never understood why a person's religious beliefs aren't just good enough for them to live their life by, but they seem to demand everyone else follow suit. If you are not of my tribe then your are the enemy also seems to be the attitude of the day. I think the Wiccans say it best: "An it harm none, do what thou will."

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Oct 13, 2010, at 5:09 PM

Also Slater, not being a Christian doesn't preclude anyone by living by a higher set of morals. Where I would consider Christians to be commanded to by God, many non-Christians also do simply out of the goodness of their hearts. For example, I didn't have to change my lifestyle hardly at all except for attending church once becoming a Christian. I already lived by the basic morals that I do now. I'm still far from perfect though, especially in big city traffic and on the golf course.

-- Posted by Philemon on Wed, Oct 13, 2010, at 3:57 PM

Not superior, just forgiven. That was the simple answer. The more complicated response is to answer with a question. Do you consider someone who doesn't lie, fornicate, cheat, steal, etc. to be superior. Of course, nobody can be without sin all the time, other than Jesus, and even he got mad at the buyers and sellers in the temple.

-- Posted by Philemon on Wed, Oct 13, 2010, at 3:48 PM

As i remember it(Oklahoma)Temple Stevens was the first doorway that faced North Street,West from the Square! every thing in the Produce line, was brought in Raw, (uncleaned )with mud still on it! In the Summer the frontdoor was always open. Twillings,moved in later, that's were the Beer smell came from! Mostly Draft Beer! Next to the Mary Lou was, (at that time),was Gus Lake's place! Next was, Max Walker's Shoe store. ,then Langan's & Brown's Tavern on the Corner,seems like that was the order,but my Brain has srunk too the size of a Walnut. The Spot Restaurant was across Salt Pond! ( west)

-- Posted by Jo on Wed, Oct 13, 2010, at 2:40 PM

Philemon said this:

"Christians should live by separate and higher morals..."

Philemon, does this statement imply that Christians should think of themselves as superior to all other humans?

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Oct 13, 2010, at 2:09 PM

This post is probably going to shock most of the people here, liberal and conservative alike.

I am actually for the legalization of pot and you may as well throw in prostitution while you're at it. Don't confuse this with me wanting to smoke pot or visit a prostitute.While in the military, I lived in a country where both were legal and I could see many benefits. Crime was down, it was regulated to be safer, and extra tax money to name a few. Prohibition didn't work for alcohol, actually causing more crime, and it is doing the same for these issues.

For some of the conservative crowd here who may be surprised by my position on this after reading some of my previous posts, I'll remind you of a few things I've learned in church. Judge not, lest you be judged. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Can't remember the exact quote, but basically follow Caesar's rules unless they cause YOU to break God's rules. I've heard it preached against, but I've still not read in the Bible where it specifically says not to drink alcohol. In fact, Jesus himself turned water into wine. It does say not to take it to excess, but says the same about other things such as eating.

Christians should live by separate and higher morals. It is their duty, despite what others may wish, to spread the gospel and try to convert others. It is not their duty to make others follow their rules unless they are converted. Wanting others to follow the same moral standards by law is no better than a Muslim wanting us to live by Sharia law.

In case this sounds inconsistent with my position on abortion, there is a big difference in not caring if my neighbor takes a drink, smokes pot, or visits a prostitute than my neighbor taking a life.

-- Posted by Philemon on Wed, Oct 13, 2010, at 1:27 PM

OKR said this:

"Same old stuff....yawn."

OKR - I'll definitely second that!

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Oct 13, 2010, at 12:58 PM

rr3yvo and JHH

Yor're right you don't have to answer for the way myself or anyone else lives their life. Remember that you were the one who said that the next time you are judging others for the choices they make. I believe my point of view is pretty well defined. You don't have to agree with it or maybe you just don't understand it for that matter but your questions that you demand I answer are a poor attempt to cast a pall on my moral compass. Sorry. Swing and a miss. Besides, the instrument has yet to be invented which could measure my indifference to what you may think about me.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Oct 13, 2010, at 12:40 PM

Same old stuff....yawn.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Oct 13, 2010, at 11:09 AM

You know John I guess I asked too many questions for wtf I didn't get any answers.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Oct 13, 2010, at 11:01 AM

rr3yvo,

Big business is the government. Politics and voting are a shell game designed to distract the citizens into thinking they actually have a say in something. To keep them calm.

So, are you now saying that alchohol and tobacco use are a moral dilemma? Is it your implication that those who choose to partake are somehow less moral?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Oct 13, 2010, at 7:45 AM

Inspired by okr to post

Big government is constantly warning us about the power of big business, right? But while they warn you about big business and all the stuff they're making you do, you really live under the rule of big government. That's where you're losing your freedom and getting screwed!" -Rush

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Oct 13, 2010, at 7:02 AM

OKR:It seems to me that there is an ugly malignancy that continually grows stronger among the far left. Their comments are nothing but parrotings of the maliciousness spewed by the corporate shills of the radical left media. I can't recall the last time I read an original comment from any one of the current group who pretend to carry the banner of liberalism. It is so off putting to me because if that was what I wanted to be exposed to I would just listen to PMSNBC, or the unprincipled hacks on CNN.

Seems to me you do the very thing that you accuse us of. Sounds like a liberal, smells like a liberal must be a liberal.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Oct 13, 2010, at 6:22 AM

So wtf if you don't like abortion how do you morally support the right to choose? does it make it right?

Why do we still have underage children drinking and smoking if showing an ID is supposed to stop that?

What makes you think legalizing and taxing something makes it right? how do you justify that?

Just because alcohol and tobacco are legal does that make it morally right to use them?

Contrary to what you believe I don't have to answer for the way you live your life you do.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Oct 13, 2010, at 6:15 AM

ND just read the links. Yee Gads, as I was saying...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Oct 13, 2010, at 2:24 AM

ND I will get back to your links in a moment. I presume they will be interesting as yours always are.

I just wanted to comment on your reflections. I also miss the contentious camaradarie once shared on the blog.

It seems to me that there is an ugly malignancy that continually grows stronger among the far right. Their comments are nothing but parrotings of the maliciousness spewed by the corporate shills of the radical right media. I can't recall the last time I read an original comment from any one of the current group who pretend to carry the banner of conservatism. It is so off putting to me because if that was what I wanted to be exposed to I would just listen to Limbaugh, or the unprincipled hacks on Fox News. Nevertheless that is all they do, import the latest line from those sources. Where is White Tornado, AF Brat, and others of that ilk? I suppose that MrXray is the closest to that of the current posters, but he comes loose from his libertarian underpinnings far too often. Not a one of them ever acknowlege that maybe, just maybe they could be wrong about anything, ever.

Oh well.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Oct 13, 2010, at 1:56 AM

Jo I was recalling the late 50s. I reckon that corner must have had a long tradition as a location for chasing the Devil.

I do remember when we would come to town (lived on a farm 46 to 52) that there was a Temple Stevens store on that block. Did it later become Langan's? Or was Temple Stevens where Twilling's Tavern was later, and was Twilling's, at the time, down on the Northwest corner of North Street and English is it that is one block off the square?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Oct 12, 2010, at 11:43 PM

Oklahoma: If i'm thinking clear,that one of those Evangelical groups,were the Swift Family! They played a guitar,sang and preached? Say like the early, to late 40s. John t. Davis drug store,was across the street! That corner smelled like Produce & Beer,there was a market,Temple Stevens,i think,next to the old Mary Lo Theater. that takes me back!

-- Posted by Jo on Tue, Oct 12, 2010, at 11:03 PM

Bravo NanaDot. Well said WTF.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Oct 12, 2010, at 10:28 PM

When I was a young guy in Marshall fifty plus years ago there were street corner evangelizers that hung out around the northwest corner of the square, sometimes spilling west down North Street where a couple of taverns served the needs of their patrons.

There they stood, or more descriptively, darted to, and fro, faces jutting forward, eyes wide, psyched out by Jesus, some would say. Loudly they proclaimed what they God honest believed, what they could no longer leave quiet in their hearts. God had spoken to them through Jesus, "this is the only way". They were bursting to tell it, to share what they believed had generated their euphoria.

At the time I would usually walk on by ignoring their words as I enjoyed an inner smirk at their unusual behavior. Being young, and spirited I would occasionally drop a few words of ridicule as I passed.

I have reflected on that situation over the years, after I had witnessed a reminding display of human behavior, or sometimes the tableau would just pop into my mind.

One day it struck me that those folks were more exuberant, more alive than they had ever been. I realized that the first thing those kind people wanted to do was share. To tell people of their delight, and to help them get there. I was grateful for their past offer to share their good fortune with me.

On another day it struck me that I had no common interests with these folk, beyond the fact that I would be glad to share with them the joys of the life path I had chosen, just as they wanted to share theirs.

The glaring difference was that I wasn't absolutely positive that my way was the right way for me, let alone the entire human population. I could not rationally dispose of the notion that as my mind is finite, therefore I could be wrong. They believe that they can not be wrong.

So, I believe that I wasn't that far off base as a young man. I think I will continue these last few years to just walk on by, and toss the occasional witticism if the mood strikes me. The difference now is that my witticisms, that can be biting, are tempered a bit because I am mindful of their kindness in wanting to share what they believe is best in their lives.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Oct 12, 2010, at 10:25 PM

rr3yv0,

First of all I don't think anyone who supports a woman's right to choose likes abortion. Unfortunately as a species we justify the death of our own in many ways every single day. I just don't understand why the death of an unborn is anymore tragic than any other death? A life is a life is it not?

I don't like abortion and think a woman should be offered every other alternative possible but I don't feel that anyone other than she and the father depending on the situation can make that decision.

As for the attempted slam about legalizing drugs that dog won't hunt. It is a docomuented fact the marijuana is far less harmful than two legal drugs we have now. Alcohol and tobacco.

It is readily available on the blackmarket. Kids don't need an ID or to find an alternative buyer. The black market is also where people are exposed to harder drugs. That is also a fact. Considering how you feel about pot,it would probably curl your toes if you were aware of all of the responsible, hard working, tax paying good parents that you know who enjoy a little herbal therapy. Most of the people who are going to smoke pot already do. It's out there, it's plentiful and easy to get. It's also a few billion dollars a year in tax revenue flushed down the drain by the hysterical minority not to mention the billions to fight it.Those are resources that could be used to go after truly dangerous drugs. Leave the pot smoking sterotypes to the movies. Most are not like that. If you can look past the recreational hang up you have, how about the releief it brings to thousands of cancer patients, who in the eyes of the govt. are criminals. Compared to synthetic pharmecuticals it is not only cheaper but much more effective. I wonder if maybe the pharmecutical companies have anything to do with perpetuation of the myths, misinformation and hysteria about pot? Nah, those guys wouldn't do anything like that would they?

Why do you take aspirin, antacids or cough syrup? To make you feel better right? Those are "drugs" also by the way. You would'nt be a hypocrite would you? It would seem again as if you want everyone to live their lives based on your standards. Sorry Charlie, not this one.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Oct 12, 2010, at 6:33 PM

Amazing how all the liberals justify legalizing drugs and killing babies.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Oct 12, 2010, at 4:30 PM

Or kill it if they have more oil than we do.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Oct 12, 2010, at 9:16 AM

My point is that you seem to want it both ways.

Why does it seem as if a person already born doesn't count?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Oct 12, 2010, at 7:38 AM

Oh and wtf how many Iraqi soldiers or civilians die in this country from drunk drivers or abortion? Hmmmmmmmmmmm!!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Oct 12, 2010, at 7:07 AM

rr3yco,

In your death count post in regards the the Irag and Afghan wars, it appears as if you only listed deaths of American soldiers. Why is that?

No dead Iraqi soldiers or civilians?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Oct 12, 2010, at 5:49 AM

I was reading something about the corruption on Wall Street. (High Frequency Trading) I've been trying to find out more on the subject! We need an (Outside Washington, Impartial, Independent Investigation) And wanting the American People too demand it of their Representatives! If anyone can find anything on this Please post the link? Thanks! And News Across: I'm happy for your success man, and still supporting changes for everyone else to succeed! That's an unselfish thing, good man!1

-- Posted by Jo on Tue, Oct 12, 2010, at 1:22 AM

WTF I meant that the consumer of medical services should be protected, just as with any other medical service. Thank you for the heads up allowing me to clarify my remark.

With that I have nothing more to say on the issue of abortion. I can take a cue, and full well realize that it is a corner in which I am not welcome, nor needed.

I will have more to say on a tangential issue with Part 2 of Save All The Unborn Children, hopefully to which I will soon return.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Oct 12, 2010, at 12:01 AM

You are correct Nana it should be a joint responsibility. The reason I reference just she is that it is always the argument about the woman's choice like they don't need a man to have a baby.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Oct 11, 2010, at 11:15 PM

Wtf you fail to recognize that it is not a choice it is a baby. The choice was made moments before conception and she should take responsibility for that choice.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Oct 11, 2010, at 11:04 PM

Drunk driving fatalities

http://www.alcoholalert.com/drunk-drivin...

Total abortions since Roe v Wade.

49,551,703

http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/facts/abort...

Iraq war deaths 4,287

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/o...

Afganistan war deaths 1323

http://icasualties.org/oef/

WHICH IS WORSE, YOU DECIDE?

WHICH WOULD SAVE MORE LIVES IF WE STOPPED IT, YOU DECIDE?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Oct 11, 2010, at 11:01 PM

rr3yvo,

My point about big governement and a woman's right to chose is that some of the same people screaming about big govt. etc would like that very government to deny a woman's right to choose.

I thought we wanted the govt. out of our lives didn't we?

I'll answer the question about pot. It's a relaxant. Like a warm bath....a massage or even a cocktail at the end of the day. There is a time and a place for it and with regulation it should be legalized. We are spending billions to keep it illegal when those resources could be used to combat truly dangerous drugs. It's well documented to be much safer the alcohol and no one has ever died of an overdose. The time has come to end the hysteria and even accept the reality that with the current ban on idustrial hemp, we are shooting ourselves in the foot by not reaping the benefits of this incredibly versatile and renewable natural resource.

We can make whisky out of corn but we can't grow industrial hemp? Does anyone else see the absurdity in that?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Oct 11, 2010, at 10:52 PM

Okr tell me what the purpose of regulation is? For example alcohol is regulated but we still have under age drinking and more people die each year from drunk drivers than we have lost in both of the current wars we are in.

You speak against war and how bad Bush was for getting us in it but you are in favor of abortion and pot. Where is the logic in that?

I guess it is ok to be killed by a drunk driver or under influence of pot or by a mother that decides she really don't want to be burdened with a baby. Now where is the hypocrisy?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Oct 11, 2010, at 10:43 PM

OK Reader,

Get ready. I think your use of "consumer" in relation to a woman seeking an abortion might be rather touchy. I wouldn't phrase it on the same level as buying a gallon of milk if I were you.

I don't think that's really what you meant either but don't be surprised if others don't. IMHO

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Oct 11, 2010, at 10:17 PM

JHH I do not believe in either without regulation. I believe in both with regulation.

Mainly provider regulation in both. No coat hanger operators, no unregulated street dealers of marijuana. In both instances regulation to protect the consumer.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Oct 11, 2010, at 9:51 PM

I beg your forgiveness rr3. I meant JHH in my last post. Hopefully it will come down before either sees it. Actually I shoudn't have said that about anyone. So, I am going to censor myself by flagging it.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Oct 11, 2010, at 6:03 PM

It's really sad that American people have to resort to bribery to sway the politicians that they put in office.

We call people that bribe congress lobbyist to make it legal, kind of like calling a murderer of babies an abortionist to be legal. Still doesn't change the crime.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Oct 11, 2010, at 4:34 PM

Wtf what does the size of government or the need to take our country back have to do with the right to tell a woman what she can or can't do with her body?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Oct 11, 2010, at 4:18 PM

Okr I didn't ask you to edify anything. You made a statement and I simply asked a question because of your statement. Is that too hard? or too much to ask? As news would say the burden of proof is on you mate.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Oct 11, 2010, at 4:15 PM

If you would like to know about medical marijuana rr3 I suggest you read up on it. Both sides of the issue. I long ago gave up on any attempt to edify you.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Oct 11, 2010, at 4:00 PM

Now here ia an idea whose time has truly come. The American people hire a lobbyist to assure that their message gets through to Congress.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/america...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Oct 11, 2010, at 3:57 PM

Okr I would like to know how medical marijuana makes family life better? how does it just jump out at you?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Oct 11, 2010, at 3:55 PM

If the govt. is getting too big and we need to take our country back, then why should the govt. have the right to tell a woman what she can and can't do with her body? I'm just sayin'....

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Oct 11, 2010, at 3:39 PM

Thanks for that gem ND. It is a well woven narrative, and a source of light in dark days.

Not in my life time, but perhaps common practice within the lifespans of my grand children, which matters much more to me.

Meanwhile I will continue my quixotic, lilliputian use of my own small patch, by continuing personally long established practices such as harboring the native sun flowers that I gleaned from bar ditchs long ago. They are wonderful magnets for insects which much prefer them to the plants I nurture for my own sustenance. The two thrive in an easy symbiosis. The birds munch their seeds while efficiently scattering enough for the next years growth.

I much prefer blending with nature to futile attempts to conquer it.

Thanks again, and I hope that you are having a well deserved good day.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Oct 11, 2010, at 3:23 PM

Myth busting: what big stimulus package that failed? Federal spending actually less under Obama. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/11/opinio...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Oct 11, 2010, at 2:32 PM

Many are injured in our two wars. some of the injuries that ultimately result in the deaths of soldiers are not even recognized when the injury occurs, nor is sufficient treatment given once the injury, sometimes grudgingly, recieves a medical response..

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/11/us/11s...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Oct 11, 2010, at 2:22 PM

The following link is posted to provide a moment of amusement. Side effects may include chagrin, disdain, ill humor, laughter, uncontrollable smirking, uncontrollable anger that may be channeled through one or the other of two paths of neural transmission, feelings of helplessness, and lethargy.

Should one or more of these symptoms persist please contact your family medical practitioner, herbalist, psychiatric support provider, religious counselor, or Eric Crump. http://pol.moveon.org/republicorp_orgcha...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Oct 11, 2010, at 1:06 PM

MrXray,

ALL the liars and cheats are equally bad. It's when they're on a more prominent display that their lies and conniving appear to be worse.

I'm looking forward to which side (public, govt.) wins the test of wills.

We'll end up with a bunch of no-goods after this election and nothing will change over there, but everything new always needs refinement. The mistakes the voters make this time around can be corrected the next time around, or the time after that. It would be a novelty for us voters to actually think about our choices before we make them.

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Oct 11, 2010, at 12:12 PM

Sorry if these responses seem outdated, but I've been too busy for a few days to post.

News,

Friday your said "If you want to cite medical science mate, make sure you know what you are talking about before you hit that first key of the keyboard." You also provided a link to an article to support your view, for a 2nd time. Look mate, if you want to be condemn people for having a lack of medical knowledge, please show a little knowledge yourself by posting a link to something maybe from at least this century. Come on, the article was from 1989! My son was born in 1991 and only barely exceeded the limits in the article. Meanwhile, there were numerous infants in the hospital with him that didn't meet the supposed limits mentioned in that article THAT SURVIVED. FYI, my son barely weighed over 2 lbs when he was born very premature.

WTF,

I could have sworn we were discussing abortion, not the horrors of war. If you really need to hear it, then yes, I'm opposed to the needless loss of any human life. Just in case you want to throw a few grapes and bananas in with the apples and oranges, I also think it is a shame we can't do enough about all the innocents dieing of famine, earthquakes, hurricanes, etc. It's awful how we treated the Indians, slaves, and even the peasants before we left Europe. Also, sorry for any idiots that may have caused all this. We really need some GOOD choices in the next election. I can't remember the last time I actually voted for a presidential candidate rather than simply against his opponent.

-- Posted by Philemon on Mon, Oct 11, 2010, at 11:58 AM

Medical marijuana is one example of drug use that does make family life better. It is the one that just jumps out at you. There are others.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Oct 11, 2010, at 10:58 AM

Well john henry's hammer,

I agree with 19th Century Political Philosopher John Stewert Mill that what an adult puts into their own body is their own business.

Mill believed that a person is free only when that person's rights are assured. He believed that any person had the right to do as they want as long as they did not directly hurt other people.

In addition, Mill believed that while a person simply being drunk was not a criminal act, a police officer or an Army officer being drunk on duty is a crime. He believed there was a difference between what an individual did to him or herself and what an individual did to society.

"The Philosophy of John Stuart Mill"

http://meta-religion.com/Philosophy/Biog...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Liberty

"On Liberty"

by John Stuart Mill

http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/m/mill/joh...

So, like John Mill, I believe that what an adult puts into their own body is their own concern until they cross the line where it does or potentially could directly hurt someone else. For example, I believe an adult has the right to sit at home and get as drunk as they want. Its their body, their life. But if they sit at home and get drunk then get into a car to drive...at that point they are a direct threat to the safety of the public and are committing a crime.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Oct 11, 2010, at 8:59 AM

JHH

I don't think prohibition of alcohol or marijuana has ever stopped anyone who wants to use these substances from using them.

Even our prisons are full of recreational drugs.

Laws don't stop human beings from putting things into their bodies.

But prohibition laws do create crimes and create a whole new class of criminals (users become criminals by virtue of their use of the illicit substance) that otherwise would not be criminals.

Our prohibitions were and are not effective in their goal of protecting the individual from themselves and have cost us billions and possibly trillions over the years with little or no success.

While certainly drug and alcohol addiction are treatable (12 step programs), but to treat the victims of these diseases as criminals is not a solution. In addition, prohibitions keep exclusive control of the production and distribution of these substances in the hands of criminals.

As the empirical data demonstrates, prohibition has far more negatives than any positives and is costing the tax-payers out the wazoo...and for what? Who has it stopped? What good has it done?

Its time we end prohibition.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Oct 11, 2010, at 7:09 AM

mrxray

I really don't like either party.

I prefer the Democratic Socialist Party.

http://www.dsausa.org/dsa.html

However, the Democrats use of modified Keyensian economic theory won't cause our economy to collapse and in fact the Stimulus probably prevented that collapse.

Neoclassical economic policies of the Republican Party did almost wipe our economy out completely in 2008, and I believe without a doubt that if McCain had been elected Pres, the collapse would have occured in 2009. The economic proposals of the Republican Party's "Pledge to America" contains those exact same neoclassical economic policies that brought our economy into a state of deflation to begin with. So really their Pledge to America seems to this economist to be a pledge to destroy our economy.

This good, American Socialist will be supporting the Democrats because my love for my Country, the USA, won't allow me to support any party who's specific economic policies have driven our Nation to the brink of collaps before and whose policies will ultimately bring about that collapse if they are put into a position where they can force those neoclassical economic policies on us again.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Oct 11, 2010, at 3:52 AM

Actually X-ray,

Using a subjective source is fine as long as that source cites qualified sources to support their statments.

The Blog that was cited by CH does just that. The blogger takes the reader directly to the video of Jon Stewert's comments. In addition, the Republican Party's "Pledge to America" is a well publicized position and is well known to the public. So the citing of a blog in a matter where that blogger has included his qualified sources is perfectly acceptable in academia and by publishers as well.

The problem with some subjective citations is that they state their non-expert opinion wiht no sources of their information at all. That would definately be an unacceptable citation as it has no qaalification.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Oct 11, 2010, at 3:34 AM

news... if the Dems and liberals are all so morally better or more enlightened or whatever you want to say, why has Pelosi failed to bring the ethics charges for Rangle and Waters and why has she decided to wait until AFTER the elections to finish this unsavory business... after all she promised hers would be the MOST ethical and honest. Why not get this done immediately so she can keep her promise? Or is it because they are Dems so she thinks they should be able to get away with it...

Talk about the worst of the lies and cheats!!!!

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Oct 11, 2010, at 3:27 AM

news for all the good your little links to republican lies does on this forum, here are a few to show you how hypocritical YOU and the Dems are being.. LOL

http://detnews.com/article/20101008/POLI...

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/50l...

how about the VIDEO that the leftist media outlets such as CNN and ABC and etc used to claim that white racists gun toting extremists were protesting at an Obama rally in Arizona, if I remember correctly and then when the REAL video was shown it was a black man carrying it on his back? LOL

I particularly like how the media, CSPAN this time, used a picture of Beck's rally to claim that the Democrat/liberal Union Thug/NAACP biased One Nation rally had more people in attendance than Becks Rally. I dont care about the numbers or about either rally. The point is not about beck or the one nation rally but that a media outlet had to use a FAKE/LIED about picture to make a claim about how more people attended a liberal rally than a conservative rally. LOL

http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/201...

Thats just a few, but a few is all it takes to make a point... that the Dems and the Repubs LIE and manipulate and distort and hide reality during their campaigns and when fighting for policy... too bad you are so onesidedly biased and cannot acknowledge this

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Oct 11, 2010, at 3:23 AM

news... I agree with you to a degree about the pot industry. If the US treated it like they do the Alcohol industry this would HELP eliminate the portion of the border security/drug problem that pertains to this specific drug. It would NOT eliminate the human trafficing nor the other drugs and weapons gang problems which also allow for them to aid terrorist people to enter our nation undetected.

Simply legalizing Pot would not solve the crime and corruption problem in Mexico either and since there would still be drug gangs and the rest of the stuff, you would still have the same problem, with the same amount of people involved on both sides. It would just turn to making more of the more dangerous drugs to sell on our streets to fill the void left by not having a market for illegal pot....

I simply cannot understand the politicians lack of desire to uphold the constitution and secure our borders in the name of national security which IS one of the real jobs of the Federal government.

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Oct 11, 2010, at 2:53 AM

"I think political correctness accepts that misfit Muslims do not represent Islam, but that misfit Christians do represent Christianity."

The above statement I copied from an unknown source but this sums up the TOTAL hypocrisy of the of the left, particularly Obama and his admin in dealing with the Muslim religion. As a liberal, in their twisted and sad and dishonest logic, they can justify that if a MUSLIM person commits an act of terror and kills innocent people then somehow that person does NOT reflect the religion of Islam as a whole. However, when a Christian person does something extremist but does not kill anyone then the leftists jump all over that action and attempt to use that single person to claim that ALL christians are of similar characteristics and ALL Christians are radicals and extremists.

This only proves over and over and over that the left has no interest in civil debate or discussion but ONLY wants to attempt to belittle, intimidate and alienate any person or grou of people that want to stand up for something that the left disagrees with.

This is what leads to the lefts continual usage of terms like racists and red necks and extremists militia people for anyone who disagrees with them. And the lefties on this message board are no different for the most part.

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Oct 11, 2010, at 2:46 AM

LOL Cheesehead... could you buy into a more liberal biased news source than Huffpo? LOL I mean according to News you cannot EVER use a biased news source for information therefore you cannot ever use Huffpo..... but AGAIN, you refuse to answer my questions... not got the knowledge or facts to do so?

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Oct 11, 2010, at 2:38 AM

JHH

Thanks for posting the link about the Mexican drug war problem! It was very informative. I enjoyed reading it very much.

It reminds me a lot of the problem we had in America back during alcohol prohibition.

Crime is one of the things we get from prohibitions. However, as some American Governers and the Mexican President have pointed out, if America would end the prohibition of marijuana it would take control of this top cash-crop drug away from the criminals and put that control where in belongs -- with the People.

This was the case with the end of alcohol prohibition in America as well. The alcohol produced after that was highly regulated for purity and the gangs that once had exclusive control of alcohol production and distribution instantly lost all their control of it -- and all their illicit profits. As a result, the mob drive by shootings and wars stopped, alcohol purity increased significantly, folks who wanted to peacefully enjoy a good beer at the ball game could do so with out breaking the law, and the new tax revenues helped fund many vital community services such as police and fire protection.

Ending alcohol prohibition turned out to be a win-win situation. Perhaps now we should consider this successful approach with today's prohibition by ending marijuana prohibition for people 21 and over as we did with alcohol.

Thanks again for posting that fasinating look at the Mexican drug war, mate.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Oct 10, 2010, at 11:18 PM

john henry's hammer

I would not know about disabilities being the public dole as neither my wife or me have ever been disabled.

As to my Social Security...well I paid it in, I sure have a right to get it back...as was promised from the start...and spend it where ever I want. After all, it is my money. We regard it as sugar on top of our current defined pensions and the wealth we created and stored ourselves over a life-time by making good choices and working hard -- something one has to do in either a socialist or capitalist economy but something that is much more difficult for the average Joe or Jane to successfully do in a "free"-market economy. I might add that our success would probably have not been possible if not for the social programs that put us both through college.

Oh and by the way, defined pensions are mostly a socialist thing. Unions certainly prefer their members have defined pensions. But now days in both America and Australia, defined pensions are a thing of the past as capitalists did away with defined pensions for the workers years ago.

Capitalists prefer 401K's for the common folks, and they really prefer you have 401K's they, the capitalists who own and control 98% of the means of production and distribution, don't have to make any matching contributions to.

We saw what happened to the value of Americans 401K's in 2008 -- many, if not most, lost half their value -- a direct result of conservative neoclassical economic policy -- the same policy the Conservatives (Republicans) are proprosing now -- and many Americans who had planned to retire soon now have found retirement is years away -- as a direct result of Republican Party neoclassical economic policies..

One last thing mate, don't worry I have lots of mates here in Australia as well as in America. I can spare a mate or too lol.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Oct 10, 2010, at 10:29 PM

"Republicans' 'scary' immigrant photo depicts Mexicans in Mexico, photographer reveals"

"A photograph that has appeared in two high-profile Republican campaign commercials, used in both cases to depict what some have called "scary" illegal immigrants, is actually a photo taken in Mexico, depicting three Mexican farmers whose crops were destroyed, a British photojournalist has revealed."

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/10/repub...

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Oct 10, 2010, at 9:56 PM

"Obama approval doing better than Reagan, Clinton, according to poll data"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/10/obama...

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Oct 10, 2010, at 9:49 PM

cheesehead

Mate, if the Cons become the majority in Congress and are control of the White House by 2012...our economy is doomed...

...no matter what other reason a person may choose to cast their vote for the Cons, they can count on the toughest economic senerio they can imagine, unlike anything they have ever experienced, by no later than 2015.

Cons only use neo-classical economic policy. They call it many things, trickle down, supply-side, free market, but its all neoclassical economic policy.

Republican neoclassical economic policy is what caused the near economic collapse of 2008 and its what will cause the final economic collapse by 2015 -- if the Republican/Teabaggers gain control of all 3 branches of Government by 2012.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Oct 10, 2010, at 9:15 PM

So if anybody remembers the Republicans promised us some new ideas to help move the country forward. Then the decided to block more legislation than any other congress in our history. Then just a few weeks ago they promised not to be anything then they have been in the past. This may make John Boehner a prophet, because they will do the same as Bush did. Do we really want to go back to the failed Bush policies? Do we want to have the ignorant tea partiers in office?Here is a clip of the ideas of the right wing, but I warn you not much interesting here!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/24...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Sun, Oct 10, 2010, at 8:59 PM

JHH

Today is a perfect example of what a typical Monday morning is for me. I read a lot of news while sipping coffee wearing my pajamas and housecoat. Then I mosey on into the shower around 9 am. My biggest concern for the day is deciding what mulch I want to put around my palm trees near my front veranda. That's it. That is the hardest thing I have to do today.

I really don't think about money very much. I know that my wife and I are assured of our incomes for life. We are not market dependent, and we make plenty enough to maintain our middle class lifestyle for the rest of our lives. We have socialized medicine in Australia so health care costs are never a worry, and on top of all that...guess what? Yeah, it won't be much longer and I will be collecting my Social Security -- American Social Security -- and spending every bit of it right here in Beautiful Australia lol.

So you see mate, there is no way I would ever comply with a request to return to regular employment...I don't have to and I don't want to, lol.

I guess when you add the fact that I live in one of the most beautiful, temperate environments in the World...well...perhaps paradise might be too strong a word to describe my lifestyle...but its close

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Oct 10, 2010, at 6:38 PM

" Report: Republican Candidate in Ohio wore German SS uniform"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39595055/ns/...

How appropriate...lol.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Oct 10, 2010, at 5:18 PM

JHH

I don't know what folks on the public dole have. I have never met one with a lot of assets. In fact, all the folks i have known to be on the public dole are poor as dirt and are in need of the help they get.

However, my wife and I do not fall into that category...not even close mate lol. In fact, we spend most of our time doing pretty much what ever we want to do. We don't punch clocks. We don't answer to a boss. We mostly just do as we please mate...lol.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Oct 10, 2010, at 4:54 PM

Beck 'legitimizing violent fringe'

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Oct 10, 2010, at 4:49 PM

John Henry, the videos are "malformed," according to the error message. Too bad for us, I guess.

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Oct 10, 2010, at 12:42 PM

After watching the recent episode of POV on PBS about Daniel Ellsberg, I wonder if a like-minded person exists today. Surely there would be plenty of pentagon papers-like revelations about our latest war activities that could be enough to galvanize the nation against a continuation.

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Oct 10, 2010, at 12:37 PM

Greatest Living Americans Are Robert Byrd And Ted Kennedy

Proof that birds of a feather really do flock together.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Oct 10, 2010, at 8:54 AM

Well said xray but you will be attacked for revealing the truth.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Oct 10, 2010, at 8:46 AM

VERY WARY OF HARRY, SCARY

Sharron Angle surge unnerving Nevada Democrats

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/101...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Oct 10, 2010, at 8:43 AM

by the way news... exactly what was extraordinary about any thing I stated in regards to the great depression and current times? LOL

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Oct 10, 2010, at 8:13 AM

OKR: The whole comments about fools for passing on swill and believing swill is the EXACT thing that I am referring to when I say that leftist people cannot handle debate... if people dont agree with your OPINION then they are foolish swill believing/spouting idiots... lol

Why cant you just stand up for your belief and opinions without the whole insulting, belittlement?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Oct 10, 2010, at 8:10 AM

okr: exactly who stated something that is hate filled or vile? Or are you saying that if some chooses to stand up for the rights of what they consider to be an unborn 'life' and does not support abortion except for drastic situations like endangerment to the mother's life or rape then they are evil haters and vile foolish people? Or is this your inability to accept that reasonable people can and do have differing opinions from you.

The way I see it, the only people on here that use vile tactics are the people who CANNOT accept that other people have differing opinions and also cannot respect that RIGHT to have different opinions. It is the LEFT that continually uses the race care when they cannot debate factual differences... so they have to resort to NON-argument and debate tactics intentions ONLY to belittle someone else with an opposing view point. The whole concept that Obama and his Admin, his Campaign managers, and the entire Democrat Party and leftist liberals is based on the single argument for every debate... if you dont agree with Obama and the Liberals then you are a racist... no facts, no real debate, only belittlement and lies.

On this blog, the ONLY people that have used these tactics are the people from the left. If we dont agree with you we are dumb, uneducated, racist, foolish swill, "evil conservatives" unenlightened. YET you attempt to demand that others respect YOUR opinion.... the whole hypocrisy of the left in regards to honest debate is pathetic.

I have not seen anyone on here from the right, on this specific posting spout off that they think YOU are stupid evil vile or foolish and racist if you oppose their opinions. I dare you to copy and paste any such comment.

A simple differing in view points does not make someone vile and stupid LOL again intellectually dishonest and greatly takes away much of the value that your arguments and comments might have

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Oct 10, 2010, at 8:07 AM

john henry's hammer

You tried to tell me to "get a job."

Sorry mate, but we are financially independent and I prefer to do more worthwhile things than work for somebody else lol.

I will leave the wage slavery to you mate.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Oct 10, 2010, at 7:07 AM

One of our inalienable rights endowed by our creator is the right to be wrong and reading these post proves that.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Oct 10, 2010, at 5:35 AM

...oh and as to Nandot...

That woman can think circles around you boys lol lol lol...

You boys trying to keep up with Nandot are like minor league ball players trying to keep up with a pro...lol.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Oct 10, 2010, at 4:10 AM

mrxray

The burdon of proof falls upon the person making the extraordinary claim.

If you can't back your stuff up then perhaps you should just sit down.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Oct 10, 2010, at 4:06 AM

Mr. Xray to clarify. I said fools for swallowing swill, and passing swill on. I don't think they are swill. I do not hate them. Do I think they are fools? Absolutely.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Oct 10, 2010, at 2:09 AM

Not what I said Xray. Read it again.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Oct 10, 2010, at 2:04 AM

I say fools Mr. Xray because the corporatocracy, and those who support it, most vehemently the right wing, miss the bottom line.

Just how long do they think that we can go on with a capitalistic system that can only succeed with continually escalating consumption, and at the same time continue to reduce the means of consumption by the vast majority of Americans? It will not work. It is lunacy to support the status quo.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Oct 10, 2010, at 2:01 AM

Mr Xray it is one thing to be a man hater, though I disagree with your appraisal. I seriously doubt that NanDot hates men who are deserving of respect.

It is another thing to hate everything, and everyone. I see many vile, and hate filled statements on this blog about the allegedly weak, shiftless, larcenous, poor. It is all a right wing agenda.

Those same fools can't say enough in adulation of the Corporate Kingswho motivated by greed work hard every day to leave more, and more Americans out of a job. For forty years they have been rewarded with tax breaks for sending American jobs overseas. The radical right hates the poor, but praise those who cause more to be poor. If the radical right has its way soon everyone will be poor except Corporate Kings. Then the radical right will hate everyone, likely including themselves. That will be just deserts for the latter group.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Oct 10, 2010, at 1:45 AM

OKR: Just to be clear in reading your response to Nanadot... you are saying that because someone disagrees with you on the issue of Abortion then they are swill and hate mongers and illeducated or whatever other term you want to use or used?

Is that not EXACTLY what you are accusing the right wing people of doing? The whole holier than thou attitude does not belong to the "right wing or left wing" exclusively. You demonstrated that pretty well.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Oct 10, 2010, at 1:35 AM

Before the editor deletes my comments I want to clarify something about the whole abortion statements I made.... I was making a point regarding what and how nanadot stated her opinions about men using a smart alec tactic to make a point.

Personally, I think that there are good and bad people on all sides of all issues but the majority are basically good people that make mistakes... there are many examples of this in life on every issue not just dead beat men and women. But to play up the worst case scenarios of any situation and use them to belittle an entire gender or political party is lazy and irresponsible and perpetuates the problems and does nothing to solve them.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Oct 10, 2010, at 1:32 AM

At this current time BOTH parties are fear mongering and using hate... except the Left uses a horribly sad tactic... that of race, calling anyone who opposes the President's policies a racist... that is a horribly ignorant and lazy argument... sad for people who think of their selves as enlightened.. LOL

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Oct 10, 2010, at 1:28 AM

Cheesehead... i would like to discuss one thing you said... where is your proof that Clinton created more jobs than Bush.... I am not saying I agree or disagree... where is your idea coming from? Are you comparing Clinton's terms to Bush's where Clinton did not have a 9/11 occur at the beginning where jobs were lost and did not have a total economic crash due to a Democrat policy that allowed the housing market to hyper-inflate thus dragging the entire economy down in his last few years causing massive job loss?

I mean the overall numbers might reflect a basis for your statement but when you look into the specifics you have to acknowledge there was a huge difference in 'life' and national circumstances during the two Presidents terms. And even Clinton ended with a mild recession...

But then the liberals use imaginary "jobs saved" categories to pad their job creation numbers even though you cannot actually see or find an actual job saved, nor prove exactly what saved it.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Oct 10, 2010, at 1:26 AM

news... how about you take my concepts and discuss them instead of using your typical tactic of just saying that they are wrong without backing up YOUR disagreement. LOL

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Oct 10, 2010, at 1:16 AM

another word to the man hater Nanadot... lol

If I use your logic regarding the horrible men in the "it takes two to tango" relationship I would have to draw these conclusions. Womem are idiot for ever having a procreative relationship with a man because after all, according to you, they are all deadbeats and worthless. In fact I would have to go further and come to a logical conclusion using YOUR logic that for a woman to have a realtionship with ANY man in which pregnancy is a possibility then that woman is irresponsible because she ought to know that ALL men are worthless vile pigs, especially if they are republicans and/or conservatives and therefore the woman has brought on to herself the problems to herself by failing to subdue the primative sexual urges and allowing them to overcome her normally responsible and reasonable thought process...that being men are worthless.

I mean fair is fair when you try to bash all men or attempt to take out the reality of the situation that pregnancy takes TWO people of opposing genders therefore equal responsibility.

To go even further, I would have to say that you are willfully ignoring that many women end up having 4, 5 6 or more kids with many different men because they are simply uneducated, uneducated about birth control, too lazy to utilize birth control effectively and consistently, unable to control their animalistic urges when birth control is not availble, and they do not care about personal responsibilty because they know the liberal radical wackos will provide them with another handout, a larger food stamp amount, health care for free or almost free and on and on.

I too can play using your type of logic. LOL it is mildly fun I have to say. Thanks for that.

However, I know many many more responsible men than irresponsible when it comes to providing for their children within the marriage and/or after a divorce than I do dead beats. I also know a substantial amount of women who ONLY want the child support and alimony and could care less about the children as it is shown with their fancy cars/SUVs and weekly hair/nail appointments while their children are dirty, unkempt in ratty hand me downs and ill behaved.

So eaxctly what was your point again?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Oct 10, 2010, at 1:12 AM

NanaDot I can appreciate your anger. I can also appreciate your frustration. Frankly I harbor those feelings myself regarding many posts on this blog, inclusive of many, if not most, of those on the topic of abortion.

I am on the record on this blog that in my opinion it is no one's right to tell a woman what she can or can not do with her own body. For that matter I also do not believe it is any one elses right to tell a man what he can do with his body.

Having said that I also believe that it is no one's right to tell anyone else what topics they should, or should not discuss. I think that it would be foolish to condemn the words of a person regarding any subject because of their gender. With most of us there are flaws enough in the content that are ripe for condemnation. Some more than others.

Even those especially ripe for tossing on the compost pile I most often ignore, and go on by. That is, unless I see that some innocent may step in it, and like it. Then I explain as rationally as I can why it is nasty, and to be avoided at all cost.

I probably should reread your comment, and I will. Perhaps you did not say that for men to discuss the topic of abortion is an affront to women. Perhaps you did not say that it is men's heavy-handness on the topic, and others, that has driven most of the women from this blog.

Anyway I am going to reread your comment now, and perhaps I will come back with an apology to replace this apologia.

My own opinion is that what has driven the women from this blog is the endless stream of right wing swill, pompously served up as haute cuisine when it is really nothing more than a warmed over hash of hatred and hyperbole, with bilge water to wash it down. The stuff tossed out by the few that they consider top chefs. Those top chefs laugh all the way to the bank at those who lap it up, even become addicted to it. I believe that it has also driven men from the blog.

I just hang around to let people know that there is something else to chew on. I truly hope that you continue to redress the menu.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Oct 10, 2010, at 1:12 AM

CH

No doubt...the Conservatives collectively comprise the party of hate..and ignorance.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Oct 10, 2010, at 12:14 AM

Come on news you know the right only operate on propaganda not facts. They hate facts just like they hate gays, muslims, and those that cant afford to pay for their own health care. Also they hate President Obama,economics,immigrants and so on. They still think that tax cuts for the wealthy will get us out of the recession, but fail to mention the recession started soon after the tax cuts began.They fail to mention that Bill Clinton raised taxes, but still added more jobs than Bush and Reagan combined.They fail to mention the want to repeal health care reform then add back most the pieces of it.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Sat, Oct 9, 2010, at 11:39 PM

mrxray

Where are the links or sources of your information?

I would love to have a good read of them, and as you know, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Frankly, I think you just grabbed those claims out of the air.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Oct 9, 2010, at 10:56 PM

the GDP comparison...are you talking about nominal GDP or effective GDP?

In order to compare the GDP of these 2 years, it is necessary find the conversion factor and use it to compare the 2 or more or periods.

Typically, Conversion factor C = GDP year A/GDP year B.

To compare year A's to year B we simply multiply Year A by the conversion factor, or in other words, A/B(A)= GDP A in terms of year B

or more simply use this formula:

effective year A GDP = (year A GDP squared) divided by year B GDP

Otherwise you are simply trying to compare apples and oranges mate...and that won't work.

I don't see your explanation of how you made your comparison. Perhaps you could elaborate further.

Thanks mate!

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Oct 9, 2010, at 10:53 PM

News.... here is example(s) of sharia law taking effect and influencing US legal process and legal decisions:

The FIRST example is how many liberal legal idiots are saying that international law should supercede our own Constitution and laws and that we should forgoe our sovereignty. Again and again the courts have been known to use this concept in their decisions using precedents from outside the US legal system to make US legal decisions.

Obama's pick to be the legal advisor to the State Department stated that Sharia law could be used in some cases in US courts to influence legal descisions. This goes totally against the US constitution and US laws and Codes as the authority of our legal system and its decisions.

Then we have some court cases heard by judges where the judges refused to grant an order of protection from an abusive husband because of the mandates of SHaria law, but they have been overturned by higher courts so far. There was on in NJ and one in Florida.

In Tennessee Child protective services refused to even investigate a claim that a 7 year old child, who had a Muslim Husband who beat her during Sharia classes. Find articles from May 2009 about this.

And you can look to European nations to see how they have gradually been affected in this same manner where they condone Sharia law in enclaves of Muslims allowing them to rule their own.

It is SO dishonest to ignore facts there News...

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Oct 9, 2010, at 10:31 PM

Oh great: I wondered how long it would be before some one started MAN BASHING in regards to abortion. Were I to lower myself to those standards Nanadot, I would have to say that the MAN should not have trusted the Woman to use birth control and they should have thought about the possibility that the woman was USING the MAN simply to get a child because the woman was desparate to have someone to love, get an extra tax deduction or an extra welfare check each month, AND a portion of the Man's income in the form of Child support and alimony. LOL

It takes TWO people to tango and create a new life. Because of that it is NOT ONLY the Woman's responsibility to care for the baby nor to end its life because it is convinient. And to use the whole issue of rape babies is not even a valid argument for abortion rights because very few people are arguing that this aspect of abortion should be eliminated. AND it is exceedingly rare to get pregnant from rape and with the invention of abortion type of birth control pills called the day after pill.

IF you are going to argue that the woman has the SOLE right to keep or end the life of the baby without the input of the father, then you also have to agree that if the father decides they dont want a baby nor want to have anything to do with the baby, then the mother should not ever have the right to pursue child support in this case since you are saying that the mother has the ultimate right of choice in the life and death decision regarding the baby to be.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Oct 9, 2010, at 10:14 PM

Cheesehead: With any semblance of honesty can you at least acknowledge that the Dems and liberals are equally corrupt in their dealings with special interest bribery game that DC participates in daily? That is the problem with some or most of the liberals on this board.. the are trying to take a speck out of our eyes while having a LOG in their own eye...

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Oct 9, 2010, at 10:08 PM

4. We were NOT in a war during the Great Depression and we are in Two now.

5. Most individuals and most local, state and even the Federal Governments were not in over their heads with huge debts. for 2010 our national debt is at 94.7% of our GDP and last year it was about 83.3% The year before it was only 69% The only time it was higher was during WWII and shortly after. Even during the Great Depression it was only in the 30 and 40% range. The only way to pay for this enormous debt is to print imaginary money based on hope and faith and down the road will come high inflation.

6. Nanadot hit on this aspect: Back in the 30s about 25% of people lived on farms and a greater majority had at one time lived on farms. Plus there was the victory garden program where the government and corporations promoted the idea that families could grow food for their selves, family members and neighbors and provided simple tools and seeds to help. This freed up more supplies for the war effort to support our Troops overseas. I doubt most people today could grow enough food efficiently to survive even a moderate winter for their own family let alone to help a neighbor... LOL....

7. Another issue is the state of our family units. Back then it was common place to care for your own family, your children and your parents and grand parents, even cousins aunts uncles and others. Nowadays we shove our parents into nursing home ASAP and as soon as our children are off to college they are on their own. Gone are the days of extended families helping each other and living together. So we do not have even families willing to help each other out because we are a me me me society lusting for instant gratfication.

8. Back prior to and after the great depression we were the leading economy because the war did not touch our homeland so our manufacturing facilities were not damaged. In Europ, both World wars devastated theirs and this allowed the US to be the primary provider of goods giving us the roaring Twenties and the economic recovery after WWII. Now our economy does not have the capabilities to recover based on all of these bits of information. YET we think we can spend our way out of this problem?

You can opine about this information all you want but we are in a drastically different position now economically than when we had the great depression

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Oct 9, 2010, at 10:06 PM

as for the liberal concept of spending our way out of the economy here are some factoid to consider when comparing our current problem with the problem of the Great Depression:

1. Back then we were the major manufacture of almost all goods, both because of our industrial revolution, or wide variety of natural resources and innovation, and because of the devistation of the World Wars to manufacturing facilities in Europe. Today we dont manufacture very much stuff and we are competing with insanely cheap slave labor costs provided by people who live under oppressive governments.

2. The size of our government, complete with its wasteful spending on idiotic projects and programs such as teaching chinese hookers to drink responsibility, is drastically larger and therefore more corrupt, fraud filled, wasteful and inefficient than our government was prior to the Great Depression. Therefore PRIOR to our current problem we were already taking more from our economy to support government waste and inefficiency so we have less economic room to support further growth of government spending/'unstimuli'

3. Baby Boomers were babies or were not born yet so after WWII there were more people to support those retiring and those unable to provide for their selves, now the baby boomers are going starting to retire and have made most of their major purchases such as homes, extra cars and college educations for their children. Therefore we will have LESS people to pay for these huge government programs

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Oct 9, 2010, at 10:06 PM

nanadot: I did not refer to WWII but WWI and the great depression......

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Oct 9, 2010, at 9:35 PM

wtf... also our GDP was nothing close to what it is today... lol

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Oct 9, 2010, at 9:33 PM

John Henry's Hammer.

I don't know if it was your intention or not but your last post says a hellava lot more about you than it does any "wacko liberal" or anyone else for that matter. Labels are fun aren't they? I can think of a few.

Hey, was America great before the 1950's?

I think it was. Funny how America was great before "one nation under god" was inserted into the pledge of allgience. That inserted phrase or even those on currency don't equate to any constitutionally recognized religion. I don't know why some people seem to want to insist otherwise. I tell you one more thing. I'll take a "tree huggin wiccan" over most any hypocritical, puritanical and usually hysterical christian any day of the week.

Are you going to church tommorrow? Go back and read your post then ask yourself what would Jesus do? Would you call him a "liberal wacko"?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Oct 9, 2010, at 9:29 PM

Liberals anti-democratic? Lol...'splain that one to me...lol

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Oct 9, 2010, at 9:06 PM

If anybody wants to watch how top Republican leader John Boehner discusses his act of handing out bribes to his collegues in the house. Like it or not this is an example of how the right only has the interest of big corparations in mind and not the people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAC2xeT2y...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Sat, Oct 9, 2010, at 8:51 PM

For those who are considering voting next month here is a video of some hate pushers and who want to take this country to new lows. If you have listened to any of these charcters chances are you've been misled. So share this video and hope we can get out the vote and defeat the radicals who want to rule this country.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DRkUU-qh...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Sat, Oct 9, 2010, at 8:39 PM

"AP: Abortion doc's murder may be linked to broader campaign"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/10/abort...

"A federal grand jury is investigating whether the murder last year of Dr. George Tiller, one of the nation's few late-term abortion providers, was connected to a broader case involving radical anti-abortion activists..."

Geeeeee...do ya think just maybe the christofascists might have been behind that?

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Oct 9, 2010, at 5:42 PM

mr. xray.

We also didn't have 300 million people either.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Oct 9, 2010, at 4:22 PM

so.... because humans abuse the system, any system, that is an EXCUSE to not fix the system? Lol. That is logical. And I guarantee if there were an HONEST investigation into how much government systems were abused we would ALL be shocked. In my job I see a major majority of all people who use the medical benefits from the government abusing them all the time, over and over and over. Some intentional and some because there is no educational process to teach people when it is ok to use an ER and when it is not, and some because there are not enough family practice doctors to see patients in rural areas in a timely manner.

But then we would have to look into the fraud abuse and waste from the government employees, bureacrats and doctors/medical facilities and suppliers as well. It is easier to just continue to expand the expensive and economic draining programs than it is to be honest and make hard choices.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Oct 9, 2010, at 1:45 PM

wtf... really? The citizens of the US survived WWI and the great depression without food stamps.... or unemployment.

But with typical leftist discussion/put downs you miss the point. Pelosi is happy that the government is spending more and more money, records high amounts of people are on Food stamps and she is stating that this is a GOOD thing because this is another way that the liberals think will FIX this horrible economic depression we are in.... And extending the unemployment benefits over and over is another means to stimulate the economy.... spend spend spend while we are NOT fixing the problems, not addressing the real problems. Instead of this depression being a wake up call for ALL people from politicians and special interest groups to the common folks we are just switching who the bad guy is and who is the favored special interest group.

I am all for temporary assistance to help people get back on their feet, never said I wasn't. But that is not the attitude of the lefties. Their attitude is that if they have more people on the government dole then they can increase their cycle of spending more imaginary money on programs that dont FIX the economy, but keep more people dependent on the government in a never ending cycle.

We have 1/7th of our people on food stamps How many is too many before we actually start to address the real problems? AND make people from BOTH political parties accountable?

And by the way... former enlisted member of the US Army. 2nd of three generations of enlisted Army. I had 2 kids prior to enlisting and was eligible for food stamps but luckily did not need them. I am well aware that some of the military are eligible for food stamps... sad but true... sort of like the value we place on Public safety personnel and teachers right? We adore and value sports stars and movie stars and people of this nature more than we do those who protect and serve and instruct our children. But that is not the same debate as food stamps.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Oct 9, 2010, at 1:39 PM

LOL News... again.. try to use some logic here... your statement refering to the article about a barrier in medical science has some faults. First, again, science has proven over and over in EVERY type of science that new discoveries and advancements that come with new technologies, that science is NOT always set in stone. With medical science this is particularly true.

Second, even if medical science has or will reach a limit or barrie that it cannot help a fetus/baby survivre, by claiming to "know" that a fetus is NOT a life prior to this barrier you are taking a huge leap of faith to know the internal/soul/conscience being that may or may not be inside the womb. Basically, you are taking an OPINION that makes a simplistic statement that life does not start until it is viable. However the definition of that specific point has changed immensely over the years. In fact, there are several different opinions regarding exactly when a baby is a viable life... Some thoughts are not until 6 months after a baby is born or even a year...

So, to put it LOGICALLY, with the given state of the medical science that is constantly changing, the unknowns about the fetus' viablility or whatever other term you want to give it you are STILL condemning the fetus to death without actually KNOWING beyond a shadow of a doubt about the actual 'life' of that fetus.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Oct 9, 2010, at 1:28 PM

Interesting reading about the Sharia law and Islam and how the current official viewpoint of the current Admin is different than one that looks at this from a security standpoint...

http://centerforsecuritypolicy.org/uploa...

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Oct 9, 2010, at 1:08 PM

There will always be a certain percentage of people who abuse the system. Any system. It's human nature. That doesn't mean we throw the baby out with the bathwater.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Oct 9, 2010, at 10:29 AM

rr3yv0,

Everyone I know including myself didn't want unemployemt but we are glad it was there. We all want to go back to work. That has worked out for me but others still need some help. As a taxpayer I have no problem with that.

I hope you never find yourself in the postion of needing help and if you do I hope no one turns thier back on you because of your politics.

I'll ask you like I asked Mr.xray, are you really that partisan?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Oct 9, 2010, at 7:26 AM

Teabagger Angle's latest bit of crazy:

"GOP Senate hopeful Angle says Muslim law taking hold in parts of United States"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/10/angle...

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Oct 9, 2010, at 4:55 AM

The news today is that 89,000 stimulus checks -- totaling $22 million -- got sent to people who were dead or in jail.

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/249...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Oct 9, 2010, at 4:42 AM

"You people in the media thought in the eighties that it was Reagan's charm, personality, and slick marketing that made people love him. No, no. It was his policies. It was his core beliefs; it was his convictions." -Rush

"Why would anybody think that extending unemployment compensation benefits would reduce the incentive to work? What kind of thinking is that? It's logical thinking is what it is." -Rush

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Oct 9, 2010, at 4:38 AM

Here is some comments by the Democrats(liberals) and what the country is up against

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?i...

http://hiphoprepublican.com/general/2010...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Oct 9, 2010, at 4:36 AM

CH,

Excellent link mate. I really enjoyed reading about the crazy Teabaggers statements. You just never know what bit of crazy will come babbling forth from their peanut brains lol lol lol...

That really made my day mate!

Thanks!

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Oct 9, 2010, at 3:09 AM

Here is some comments by the tea party and what the country is up against!http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/10/08/top-10-craziest-tea-party-quotes-of-all-time/

-- Posted by cheesehead on Sat, Oct 9, 2010, at 12:35 AM

BTW Mr. xray, did you know that many of our soldiers with families rely on food stamps to make ends meet?

Should we pull that rug from under them as well?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Oct 8, 2010, at 11:12 PM

Et tu Cheesehead.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Oct 8, 2010, at 10:58 PM

Thanks News. I cut my teeth on Swiftian satire. Samuel Clemens has also been an influence.

Thanks to you also Divergent Thinker. You are a welcome fresh voice on this blog.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Oct 8, 2010, at 10:57 PM

An after thought. Not that the child roasting piece was satire. Unfortunately it is hideously true. Just a different way of seeing some of our more revolting transgressions against helpless innocents.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Oct 8, 2010, at 10:54 PM

rr3yv0,

I don't think I read anything into your post that wasn't there. BTW, those weren't compliments or insults but merely observations.

Mr.xray,

The fact is that food stamps and other govt. services do stimulate. They maintain a necessary link in a vital aspect of our economy and our society. Regardless of how you feel about the subject people have to eat. Food stamps allow them to have the most basic of needs. These are also not bums or lay abouts. These are our neighbors who have been hit hardest by our economy. For the love of humanity it's just food!

Would you deny that to your brother? A brother or sister who would much rather provide for themselves but thier job or the prospect of employment has completely dropped out from under them?

Food stamps also pay the producers of the food to stay in business. We're not talking about new cars and satellite TV here. It's food for cryin' out loud. Are you wealthy Mr. xray? How many missing paychecks would it take for you to be in exaclty the same postition? I worry about that, don't you? I never hope you find yourself in that position but it could happen tomorrow. If it does happen to you, as my neighbor and fellow American I have no problem with my tax dollars helping you feed and shelter your family until you are once again able you provide for yourself. I am thankful that I am back to work full time. I was at three days a week for six months. I am also very thankful for the unemployment that I received.

Seriously dude, are you really that partisan?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Oct 8, 2010, at 10:49 PM

x-ray,

You apparently missed this even though it is a posted support link to my statement in my comment regarding a woman's right to exclusive rights to her own body and her own private medical decisions prior to viabliity of the fetus.

I reconmend you have a read of this:

"Survival Of the Fetus: A Barrier Is Reached"

http://www.nytimes.com/1989/04/18/scienc...

If you want to cite medical science mate, make sure you know what you are talking about before you hit that first key of the keyboard. Spreading false information that is the direct opposite of the factual medical evidence isn't helpful to anyone mate -- especially when we are discussing such an imporant subject as a woman's right to the exclusive ownership of her own body.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Oct 8, 2010, at 10:49 PM

Cheesehead... here is something to counter YOUR point about lies being made about Carnahan.... she too is blasting out lies about her opponent...

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt-...

THIS is from St Louis

The point is Carnahan is just as bad as blunt... I mean did not Obama say that Carnahan would vote exactly as he ordered during his campaigning? LOL It is funny that one sides tries to claim that they are NOT from a family that relies on politics as a career and not for personal gain... in this particular race.

-- Posted by mrxray on Fri, Oct 8, 2010, at 10:41 PM

lol Cheeshead... we all know fact check is not biased right?

-- Posted by mrxray on Fri, Oct 8, 2010, at 10:32 PM

"The lessons of history ... show conclusively that continued dependence upon relief induces a spiritual and moral disintegration fundamentally destructive to the national fiber. To dole out relief in this way is to administer a narcotic, a subtle destroyer of the human spirit."

Anyone know who made this statement?

-- Posted by mrxray on Fri, Oct 8, 2010, at 10:29 PM

The whole "hope and change" has once again increased our unemployment rates...the Sept report showed it stated at 9.6% but a gallup study showed that more jobs were lost in the end of Sept that the 'official' report missed because it was published before last half of Sept numbers were accounted for.

Just the other day Pelosi told her constituents that FOODSTAMPS was stimulating our economy....this is one of the best examples of how the DEMS do not understand reality...

-- Posted by mrxray on Fri, Oct 8, 2010, at 10:03 PM

I found an article on factcheck.org which states some of the ads run against Carnahan are false. The group American crossroads are running attacks against Democrats which are completely false. If anybody is interested here is the link.

http://www.factcheck.org/2010/10/crossro...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Fri, Oct 8, 2010, at 9:44 PM

I refuse to get into the abortion debate AGAIN on this message thread.. lol it is pointless and all you get is a bunch of people with their minds made up.

It does make for entertaining reading though... I dont understand why it is even a debate on here because nothing is solved... lol and everyone is just trying to make other people think they are 'right' or more 'enlightened' than the others...

I do take exception to one argument from News.. there is no proven medical fact that states at some specific point a fetus if viable and prior to that point it is not viable therefore not a 'human' protected by rights and laws. In fact medical SCIENCE is proving over and over that a fetus can be delivered at earlier and earlier stages and still survive and lead normal lives, albeit with high costs to the parents.

IF the pro abortion argument hinges on the specific time in which a fetus becomes a viable life protected by rights and laws, then medical science is disproving the whole concept that a fetus is not a viable being....

-- Posted by mrxray on Fri, Oct 8, 2010, at 9:42 PM

OKR,

Regarding Part 1...bravo mate!!

Your comment reminds me of a "Modest proposal" offered to the British Parliament in the 18th Century regarding...the Irish problem.

A Modest Proposal

by

Jonathan Swift

http://www.fullbooks.com/A-Modest-Propos...

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Oct 8, 2010, at 9:37 PM

Divergent thinker... and the exact same thing can be said for Obama, Pelosi, Reid, Rangle, and a whole majority of the liberal media talking heads as well.... lol

-- Posted by mrxray on Fri, Oct 8, 2010, at 9:14 PM

"Colbert invites Angle, Vitter to use 'FearStock.com' for 'scary' immigrant photos"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/10/colbe...

With Video

...and now for the lighter side of politics...

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Oct 8, 2010, at 8:36 PM

Wow wtf you read a lot into my post that wasn't even there but thanks for the compliments.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Oct 8, 2010, at 8:16 PM

Most do go to the YMCA to workout and it is great for Marshall, but thats not the point.The point is that the board members or whoever is selecting stations are doing so by their political biased. There are better things to talk about, but there also needs to be some awareness raised on this issue. We all know that Fox news is not a legimate news site and shouldn't be played in a public forum.A non profit org has no place for propaganda especially when the community is supporting it.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Fri, Oct 8, 2010, at 7:41 PM

Whilst we are on the topic of morals, it is interesting to look at research that shows 'high-level people who (a) preached a high moral standard but then (b) acted using a low moral standard'. These are actually traits of psychopaths.

http://www.articlesbase.com/human-resour...

Unfortunately at least 2% of the population have these personality traits and many of them are in positions of power. Some examples could include Mark Foley, Ted Haggard, Scooter Libby, Jack Abramoff, Larry Craig, Rush Limbaugh, Jimmy Swaggart and Jim Bakker all of whom presented a 'high moral standard' to the world and yet have been shown to be lacking that in reality. This is one of the dilemmas of thinking you are 'more moral'. Either you are and have always lived an exemplary life which is virtually impossible if you are a human being, or you are a psychopath and are comfortable with lying and manipulation. However I think the bulk of so called moralists are actually hypocrites and are hiding behind a do as I say, not as I do position and because of this any argument they present can easily be debunked as has been proven by the eloquent and rational letters of news across and Oklahoma Reader.

-- Posted by Divergent Thinker on Fri, Oct 8, 2010, at 7:26 PM

"Report: Fox 5 reporter arrested for sexual abuse of a 4-year-old girl"

"Gained attention for attempted "ambush interview" with "Ground Zero Mosque" developer"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/10/repor...

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Oct 8, 2010, at 6:59 PM

Folks who support the forced sterilization of poor women just because they are poor and have babies should not be using the word "moral."

Folks who support conservatives who carry around racist signs and make racist statements should not be using the word "moral."

Folks who support cutting all social programs that help feed the poorest Americans while also supporting empire building should not be using the word "moral."

Folks who support war and launching unprovoked wars on brown skinned people in 3rd World countries should not be using the word "moral."

Folks who support torturing prisoners sheuld not be using the word "moral."

Folks who would force a woman to give her right to exclusive control of her own body and medical choices to the state should not be using the word "moral."

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Oct 8, 2010, at 6:29 PM

So the local YMCA refuses to turn off the propaganda channel Fox news, employees citing that several members of the board like fox news and have even requested CNN to be taken off tv's. This sounds like members of YMCA's board and head employess are politically biased and using their power to keep biased network playing at non-profit site. Not sure if Susan Smith the director has final say or if members of the board do? Regardless of idealogy is it fair for the YMCA to play such of role when it has non-profit status

-- Posted by cheesehead on Fri, Oct 8, 2010, at 3:09 PM

Where is my post?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Oct 8, 2010, at 2:29 PM

PART 1: SAVE ALL THE UNBORN CHILDREN

Sometimes we need our noses rubbed in the continuing, and probably endless, litany of destruction of the very lifes of innocent children which began with our nation's founding. All done, always, with the approval of the Ameican citizenry. Often ramped up by the cheers, and yes prayers, of these interlopers from western Europe who came to feel that they could vanquish all, and further, that it was their God given duty.

Fire seems to be involved quite often. Apparently we have some special affinity for roast child. We burned the villages of the indigenous people of America. When we ran out of the "savages" we had to content ourselves with little such action for awhile.

With the advent of new ways to cook children we really got after it in a big way. The fire bombing of Dresden in WWII took it to new heights. Unfortunately that only made us salivate for more. Once again technology came to our rescue. That precursor of the microwave oven, the atom bomb, did in mere seconds what the original slow cooking never could. Thousands of children in Nagasaki, and Hiroshima instantly burned to a crisp. Literally rendered in some cases.

Why is it that we only kill all other species than ourselves to eat, but kill our children and leave it untouched, hiding the cooked carcasses in a hole in the ground? Hopefully it is at the endgame, utter shame.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Oct 8, 2010, at 2:04 PM

Czar czar links:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,5255...

http://cricketsoda.com/2009/06/obama-app...

http://gspence1173.wordpress.com/2009/06...

http://threebeerslater.blogspot.com/2010...

The ones I've found so far appear to be commentary/satire. No news stories. Nice try.

-- Posted by taxedpayer on Fri, Oct 8, 2010, at 1:15 PM

Seems to me that the oft said statement that the Christian Right is neither Christian, nor right, is trite, but true.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Oct 8, 2010, at 12:52 PM

Thousands upon thousands of innocent Iraqi children died because of our malfeasance. Thousands upon thousands of native American children died for the same reason. Our bloody past, and present is an abomination. We are right up there in the annals of those who murder children.

I never hear any thing from the right about these outrages, yet they by some disconnect keep their bowels in an uproar about the unborn innocents. Why is that?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Oct 8, 2010, at 12:46 PM

rr3yv0,

The presidents personal thugs? You hear that on Beck? Why don't you spare us your false outrage and partyline nonsense.

So now it appears as if you are the authority on what constitutes an innocent life. I'm so glad you can put it into such cut and dry terms.

Do you mean to say that in our military "so what if they get killed" they knew the risk when they signed up. Let's use them with impunity because they are adults and they knew the risk, Is that what you are saying?

What about to the Iraqi mother whose innocent child was blown to smithereens from a US airstrike, that doesn't count? There were many young children killed in Iraq. They did not have a chance to make that life or death decision either. Could you look an Iraqi parent in the face and tell them thier kid doesn't count? Do any of those children count, rr3yv0?

Then you might say that all the Iraqi's where enemy combatants so they deserved it. A lot where and a lot were'nt but then again what would you expect? Politcs aside, what do you think would happen if this country were invaded by a foreign power? I'm guessing anyone who had a gun would join the fight. Politics don't really matter once the invading force is comimg down your street.

So there we have if folks, straight from rr3yv0, only babies in the womb can be considered innocent and once you're born you're fair game.

I'll even go further as to suggest that as far as your concerned only American babies in the womb should be considered innocent.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Oct 8, 2010, at 12:30 PM

The innocence of a child is much different from the innocence of an adult. The child has not had the chance to make a life or death decision. The adult, in paricular the military they sign up to serve, they don't want to die but they know that it is a risk as part of their service to this country. So yes wtf there is a big difference.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Oct 8, 2010, at 10:56 AM

That's the problem wtf they are not official they are the president's personal thugs.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Oct 8, 2010, at 10:50 AM

You know okr the bible talks about man having dreams about future events. I'm not sure what the bus racing down the mountain means, but he might have something great in store for you.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Oct 8, 2010, at 10:41 AM

JHH,

You said earlier this week:

"Obama talked about doing that, what would you expect from someone who appoints Czar's to a post?"

Can you show me anywhere in the entire federal govt' where there is an official title of "Czar"?

Seriously, I'd like to see it.

That is a term coined and used by the media.

You try to make it sound as if the evil President is appointing czars. That's a bunch of hooey. That goes for any other president as well.

We have no official czars in the federal govt.

Sorry, you'll have to find another bogeyman.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Oct 8, 2010, at 10:39 AM

Philemon,

I understand and respect your postition on abortion. I don't like it. I don't know anyone who does. I think every available option should be given to a woman before she chooses to abort.

What I don't understand though is our definition of innocent lives as a society. Does that only apply to children in the womb? Does it only apply to children? I'm not sure we can have it both ways but we seem to do just that everyday.

You said this about President Bush and the invasion of Iraq:

"To me, this didn't make him a liar, it just made him wrong and a little idiotic. In fact, I bet he still expects evidence to be found showing that he was right"

His being just a "little idiotic" costs the lives of thousands of innocent people. Thousands.

I guess that's ok because a lot of people made a lot of money. All because he was just " a little idiotic" My point is do you share the same outrage over those deaths as you do for an unborn child. If not, why? Where do we draw the line?

What constitutes an innocent life? Just curious.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Oct 8, 2010, at 10:29 AM

Well I guess it's time I fess up as to why I am on this consarn blog late at night so much recently.

You see, as some of you know, we recently spent a week, and a half in the mountains. Ever since we got back I been havin this recurring dream.

Just after I drift off to peaceful sleep I start dreamin that I am on this bus packed full of Tea Partiers screaming "Onward Christian Soldiers" as we hurtle down this mountain at breakneck speed. As if that ain't enough I look up to the front, and Sara Palin is a drivin the bus with a gleam in her eye, peddle to the metal. Leanin over her shoulder is Rush Limbaugh, navigatin, so to speak. Through the din all I can hear him say is "keep her turned hard to the right hon, and we are gonna make it down this mountain". Up ahead I see this big yellow sign...its gotta S curve on it. I start a screamin at em bout that sign. Can't nobody hear me, "Christian Soldiers" keeps gettin louder, and louder. The bus goes faster...then I wake up in a cold sweat.

I sigh, take a deep breath, then I realize I'm back in OKLAHOMA! I scrinch my eyes shut real tight, and try to jump back in that dream, but O Lordy Mercy I cain't.

So now you know why I been writin so much so late at night. Should'n never a took that vacation.

Sweet dreams everbody.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Oct 8, 2010, at 1:41 AM

President "Obama slams GOP's 'open floodgates' of foreign cash"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/10/obama...

Disgusting! Now the Republican Party is owned and controlled by foreign money!

THE PARTY OF NO! HAS GOT TO GO!!

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Oct 8, 2010, at 1:23 AM

Meanwhile George W. Bush is preoccupied with figuring out how to get a manned mission to Mars.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/bush-st...

Can't wait until after the next presidential election when it will again be the Republican's turn, and we can have another great president like George W. Bush. It will be awesome because by that time the new great president will have a Republican congress to work with, and they together can save the country just like George W. Bush, and his Republican congress did in the first four years they ruled the roost.

Boy o boy ain't it gonna be great. I am totally impressed by the wisdom of the American voters who know that the Republicans will get us back on track, just as they did the last time.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Oct 8, 2010, at 12:59 AM

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comme...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Oct 8, 2010, at 12:33 AM

International Monetary Fund admits that western civilization is stuck in near depression. And that in my opinion is an optimistic view.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/8039789/IMF-admits-that-the-West-is-stuck-in-near-depression.html

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Oct 8, 2010, at 12:31 AM

cheesehead

Excellent link mate!

Thanks!

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Oct 8, 2010, at 12:30 AM

I dipped into history today and came out with a headache from reading about Puritanism, its two forms, and how the separatist concept applies to the Republican political party as it currently exists. This was prompted by OKR's post about G. Cowan, Constitution Party member.

We'll be seeing some new faces in Washington soon, but my guess is that the action will remain the same.

I believe Jo is correct in his view that only a strong threat of insurrection will effect change. My question is, just how strong is the collective will?

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Oct 8, 2010, at 12:01 AM

News,

so you are going to learn something from the republicans are you who exactly do you have in mind? I did find some good information on just how much the possible Reb.candidates like fox noize the network thats fair and balanced.lol There a 5 potential candidates that have made a total of 269 appearances just this year, but these same people made just 5 appearances on other networks. Sounds like someone maybe helping their cause. I also provided a link.

http://mediamatters.org/research/2010092...

-- Posted by cheesehead on Fri, Oct 8, 2010, at 12:00 AM

I notice that the temperature in Marshall has dropped 21 degrees F over the last six hours.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Oct 7, 2010, at 11:38 PM

OKR,

It has been my experience in life that conservative political arguments tend to disentigrate under scrutiny. When one removes the emotion and examins the facts, the facts establish truth. At least in theory lol.

But the reality is we all have our own opinions which are the result of many natural and evironmental factors. I may or may not agree with some of the folks in this forum but I am still always interested in hearing their point of view, and I always hope to learn something new from them.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Oct 7, 2010, at 11:05 PM

JHH,

Personal details of my life are not up for debate or discussion in this forum. This is not a forum about me or my personal life.

Let me know when you are ready to discuss the issues again. State your thesis and defend it. I will rebut if I think rebuttal is needed.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Oct 7, 2010, at 11:00 PM

News how do you stand the racket day in day out? You have stamina my friend.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Oct 7, 2010, at 10:25 PM

News,

As I said before, not going to have a futile debate with you about abortion. However, when you argue you do need to learn a few important definitions that apparently aren't taught in Tennessee such as slavery, absolute, and analogy. Also, not going to bother with links since it wouldn't really matter to you anyway, but your definition of when life begins is one area where many doctors and scientist would agree with me, but peer review only matters when they agree with your stance anyway. It is a very divisive subject not only amongst us, but with the professionals as well.

WTF,

I did support Bush at the time, but he proved to be an idiot. Notice I didn't say a liar. I still have only seen evidence that he was wrong and listened to poor intelligence that agreed with his own beliefs, much like many people do. It is easy to believe what you think you already know. To me, this didn't make him a liar, it just made him wrong and a little idiotic. In fact, I bet he still expects evidence to be found showing that he was right. In the end, I would still rather follow an idiot rather than a liar, but only as the lesser of two evils. Unfortunately, I think we currently have both.

-- Posted by Philemon on Thu, Oct 7, 2010, at 10:24 PM

JHH,

My "type?"

Since when do you decide what "type" the rest of us are? lol.

As to my economic views, no I don't like Government debt and as I have pointed out the first place we need to start cutting is the military budget. Let's start by ending all foreign wars which we started and let's bring all our troops back from all foreign bases and bring them home where they belong. One of the biggest sources of our economic problems, other than the inherent, built-in failures of capitalism, are our empire building policies. If we want to get that budget under control, we will have to stop putting our limited resources into empire building and put these resources where they can help end the current economic depression utilizing fiscal spending policy in a Keynesian approach.

However, if we really want a balanced budget, low taxes, and a flourishing economy then we need to look at an economic system that does not have the built-in pitfalls of capitalism. Its time we have a fresh look at modern socialism...Democratic Socialism.

As to the rest of your comment and the erronious conclusions you draw (based on apparently nothing more than your own non-expert opinion), I think your view is highly subjective and not supported by the facts.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Oct 7, 2010, at 5:26 PM

Cheesehead,

A variety of non-profit categories are recognized by the IRS. If you want to read about the differences, go to www.irs.gov and check it out. I believe all the classes are in one publication; go to the publications link on the site and you should find the booklet, which you can read online.

It's actually pretty interesting, all the different classifications that fall under the non-profit heading.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Oct 7, 2010, at 5:24 PM

Philemon

Again, I was not making an analogy or a comparison.

When the state has exclusive rights to control a person's body, the state can do what ever they want with that body. That is the purest form of slavery.

Forcing a woman to carry a pregnancy to term requires the state to exclusively control a woman's body for 9 months...and yes that is slavery. I am not saying its sort of like slavery...I am saying that is slavery.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Oct 7, 2010, at 5:08 PM

From what I understand a non-profit has to be a neutral group in order to recieve tax-free status ,but when you have a board along with employers that are politically biased its hard for them to understand this.I'm just not exactly sure how that works, but if a church was to endorse or provide a means to do so wouldn't they be at risk for losing their non-profit status. Is this different from the YMCA?

-- Posted by cheesehead on Thu, Oct 7, 2010, at 5:03 PM

Philemon

As is well established by the medical evidence and the Constitution, as interpreted by the Supreme Court, the Constitutional rights of every Human Being...even those who have yet to be born, are well protected under our current laws.

A blastisis and/or a developing fetus that has not reached the point of viability does not meet the medical or legal definition of the point at which said developing fetus becomes a living human being.

According to medical science, A devoloping fetus becomes a human being at the point of viablity. This is the point at which the developing fetus is capable of surviving independently of the mother. Under Roe v Wade and the Webster decision, the States are free to regulate abortion at the point of viability...usually at 6 months and beyond (some times a bit earlier). In cases where the birth would be a threat to the life of the mother, rape, and/or incest, there are exceptions and rightly so.

So indeed the rights of the unborn child are well protected, but clearly the rights of women are under constant assault.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/hi...

http://www.nytimes.com/1989/04/18/scienc...

http://law.jrank.org/pages/11255/Webster...

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionar...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Oct 7, 2010, at 5:02 PM

Cheesehead,

I suppose you have a valid question, but I'm not understanding the television angle. Is your question prompted by the type of programming kids would watch while there?

As a former official of a non-profit, I don't recall the government interfering with any political actions of our group, but we didn't receive funding from any governmental entity, either.

It's my guess the YMCA is autonomous in terms of political views.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Oct 7, 2010, at 4:42 PM

cheesehead,

Are they running FOX. Beck's always on at the Doc's office in the waiting area to give a bllod sample. It's a good thing I'm at the Doc's office cause that guy makes me ill.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Oct 7, 2010, at 4:33 PM

I was trying to get some feedback on the local YMCA. The YMCA is a non-profit org and most of us know that. Should they YMCA be allowed to choose their own tv stations based on the board members political viewpoints? Being a non-profit org shouldn't they be neutral in selecting stations that members have placed in front of them? Whether your on the right or left a tax free org shouldnt be playing politics with the communities money.Does anyone agree?

-- Posted by cheesehead on Thu, Oct 7, 2010, at 3:51 PM

Philemon,

Did you support the Bush Admin?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Oct 7, 2010, at 2:59 PM

News: Think about it there is more method to my madness. Just don't want to say on this blog.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Oct 7, 2010, at 2:57 PM

So what do YOU call it when the state allows another to end the life of an innocent unborn child? Slavery only forces someone to do something against their will, not end life. Again, its a poor, fear-mongering analogy, no better than the Holocaust comparison.

-- Posted by Philemon on Thu, Oct 7, 2010, at 11:05 AM

Philemon

I was not making an analogy or a comparison.

When the state has exclusive rights to control a person's body, the state can do what ever they want with that body. That is the purest form of slavery.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Oct 7, 2010, at 8:26 AM

I realize this post is a bit over the top, but I hope you will get the point. If you want to compare not allowing abortion to slavery, then I suppose that means I should compare the killing of an innocent unborn child to the Holocaust, just to stoop to the same tactic.

-- Posted by Philemon on Thu, Oct 7, 2010, at 8:09 AM

Again, I don't want to get into a futile argument about abortion, just looking at some of your statements. In my opinion, to compare it to slavery is simply using the usual political tactic of comparing your issue to something horrid, no matter how dissimilar, rather than debate the actual issue.

Also, you are correct when you say "we the majority" won't allow something, unless of course the "we" you happen to be in turns out to be the minority instead. Isn't finding out which "we" we belong to the reason to actually get out and vote in the first place?

-- Posted by Philemon on Thu, Oct 7, 2010, at 8:04 AM

I agree John and I think it is funny thing about the liberals is that if they were truly elected to serve and served the will of the people then they should be a shoo in for reelection in November. I think they really think like John Kerry that the people are stupid and uninformed. Really it is just the opposite we are informed and realize the road they are leading us down and we don't like it. They really wish we were uninformed so we would be slaves to the government. Funny how people still support them when the public overwhelmingly rejects them.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Oct 7, 2010, at 6:49 AM

Hey, Barney Frank! Democrats Defended Fannie/Freddie in 2004

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/s...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Oct 7, 2010, at 5:36 AM

Oklahoma Reader

Yeah I can understand the sentiment mate, but I have to point out that most of the major positions of this candidate and his "party" are already encompassed within the Republican Party platform and are widely and commonly held issue positions of the ultra-right wing of the Republican Party.

For all intents and purposes, he is a Republican with very few differences. Yeah the corporatists will never be able to buy that guy...lol, lol, lol...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Oct 7, 2010, at 3:31 AM

Method to the madness News. In this election I would vote for a Green Party candidate if there was one available. Or a similarly leaning candidate. Only the right has an alternative to establishment politicians, at least in the fourth district.

The Constitution Party guy seems to strongly support everything that the right who blog here talk about. How could they not support their dream guy?

This election is message time to the establishment, and I don't mean flipping back, and forth from Dems to Repubs, and back again.

The Mitch McConnells of this world need to get the message as much as the blue dogs that abandon their party's goals, and bow to Big Pharma.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Oct 7, 2010, at 1:52 AM

OKR??

I stand with mouth agape...speechless!...lol...

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Oct 6, 2010, at 10:39 PM

O. K. all you guys on the right get this. I have found the perfect candidate for you to support in the upcoming Fourth District race. No, not Ike; no, not Vickie.

You all are sour on establishment politics. Especially sour on the Democrats, but also on the Republicans. You know what? We do not disagree on our mutual disappointment with both parties.

This guy seems to me to support everything you guys believe in. Hey, he even supports somethings I believe in.

His name is Greg Cowan. He is the Fourth District Candidate of the Constitution Party.

Check him out you won't be sorry. http://www.cowanforcongress.com/

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Oct 6, 2010, at 9:55 PM

jjj: You better get us to it,because its gone to take a while to improve what was left as a present, from Bush,with even more stimulus! It was a great big hole after his first 4 years,spending Clintons surplus! Do it again, put those Morons back in! Then everyone will see what hurt is?

-- Posted by Jo on Wed, Oct 6, 2010, at 9:54 PM

The stimulus and the auto bailouts even bush supported the auto bailouts. I am sick of barrack talking about a balanced budget when he put these programs through that have pushed us to a 1.6 trillion deficit for this budget cycle larger than bush clinton or carter. We have got to stop the out of control spending whether democrat or republican. This is why Ike has got to go he may take time to listen but his actions speak louder than words.I commend him on voting against the health care because he thought would hurt us more than it would help us.

-- Posted by jjjeremy on Wed, Oct 6, 2010, at 8:50 PM

...Oh and about that Freeway...Never Again, Never Again, Great Universe, Almighty, Never Again!!

I thought I was going to die on that Freeway, my wife quit as my navigator as soon as we got on the Freeway, and the native Californian drivers there all seem to turn into Charles Manson when they get onto the Freeway.

Even if I lived there, I would not drive on that freeway again.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Oct 6, 2010, at 8:11 PM

Slater

Wow!!! I loved those photos!!

Thanks mate!

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Oct 6, 2010, at 8:07 PM

News,

Don't you just love all those expansion joints in the roadways out there? No driver should ever nod off as long as (s)he stays on the freeway.

Here's a link to a very nice photo collection along with some historical notes about some of what's featured in the photos:

http://members.tripod.com/apollo_photoca...

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Oct 6, 2010, at 7:11 PM

"Goldman warns of dire economy"

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-06...

Folks remember which Party made all the economic policy decisions that gave us this depression (Republican Party) when you step into that voting booth in November. Its not the Democrats only that will suffer if we return to the conservative, neo-classical policies of the Republican Party. You may be angry. You may think the Dems are not solving the problems fast enough, but one thing is for sure...if we return the the neoclassical economic policies of the Republican Party, you may be starving before its all over.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Oct 6, 2010, at 5:11 PM

OKR,,,lol...

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Oct 6, 2010, at 4:56 PM

Philemon

Our system of jurisprudence requires case law approach and requires precedent in order to have a stable legal system.

The Supreme Court is well aware of the importance of the case law approach to our legal system, and they know we would have a lot to lose if we ever abandon that system.

As far as passing a Constitutional ammendment to give exclusive control of a woman's body to the state, that too is highly unlikely. In addition, such a move would be tatumount to restoring slavery in the United states. I realize that many conservatives oppose our freedoms as encased within the Bill of Rights...there is a mountain of empirical evidence to demonstrate that..., never the less, its highly unlikely that the conservatives will ever manage to recind the 14th Ammendement and force our citizens, or any portion of our population, into slavery as they clearly want to do.

We the Majority simply won't allow that.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Oct 6, 2010, at 4:16 PM

It is all for naught if nought something else. One ought to naught throw nary a stone when the statement they make doing so has grammatical errors. But then again I aught nought to have said anything about it. Samuel Johnson ought to have some insight on this one. It is all so confusing. I should have confined this to a line of oughts, if nought aughts.

Commenting further makes me a big ought, or is it aught?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Oct 6, 2010, at 11:57 AM

ought

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Oct 6, 2010, at 11:17 AM

Not holding my breath mate, but anything is reversible if the correct procedures are followed. If nothing else, the Constitution could be amended, although I don't see it happening. Even as written, the Constitution has been interpreted drastically different over the years.

If Roe vs Wade had been decided in the other direction, I would not be at all surprised to have seen it reversed by today. NOTHING is ever set in stone and the most convenient answers tend to float to the top, no matter what the morals or what issue. Just look to your misgivings about Bush as another example of this with you being on the other side of the fence.

-- Posted by Philemon on Wed, Oct 6, 2010, at 8:09 AM

Slater I am pleased to learn you are so familiar with San Francisco. I think its a great city. In fact, if ever we move back to the USA to stay permanently, I think we would definately put San Francisco right on the top of our list. My wife liked the cooler weather there and I enjoyed everything...except for the California Freeway...or as I like to call it, the California 500...lol.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Oct 6, 2010, at 1:49 AM

News,

As a matter of fact I HAVE been to San Francisco multiple times, when my daughter was living in the Bay Area. I enjoyed the visits, and we're planning another trip out there to take in more of the wine country (my wife's choice). My part will be to go up and hug a few of those gigantic trees. :)

I haven't paid a great deal of attention to Brown's campaign, but it does seem that he's mellowed some. As for his new look, I'd say you're right about the reason for it.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Oct 5, 2010, at 11:18 PM

"Maddow exposes delusional GOP 'fake secret agent' candidates"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/10/maddo...

I love these teabaggers lol...all of them "double knot spies"...just like Jethro.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Oct 5, 2010, at 10:58 PM

Slater

That is a new look for him isn't it?...lol lol lol.

It is kind of a cool look, but I bet it is because he developed a half-moon shaped balding pattern lol over the years. Still, I am glad to see he is still working hard for the People of California.

...and speaking of California...my lovely wife and I just recently enjoyed staying down near Union Square in San Francisco. Its a very nice town. I don't know if you have ever been there mate, but if you ever get the opportunity to go there for a few days then may I highly recommemd San Francisco.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Oct 5, 2010, at 9:37 PM

john henry's hammer

I am an Economist mate...all other Economists are my collegues.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Oct 5, 2010, at 9:24 PM

Do you suppose Brown shaved his head to try and look younger?

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Oct 5, 2010, at 8:46 PM

"GOP's Whitman struggles in Calif. gubernatorial race"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39525522/ns/...

Well now, isn't that interesting...

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Oct 5, 2010, at 8:18 PM

Philemon

I do not agree with the conclusion my collegues at The National Bureau of Economic Research recently came to regarding the economy. Frankly, it sounds like wishful thinking to me.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Oct 5, 2010, at 3:57 PM

Philemon

The Court in Gore v Bush stipulated that in that case and that case only that was there ruling. They make clear in their decision that this particular case was not to set a precident.

If you are looking for a reversal of Roe v Wade, don't hold your breath mate lol.

JHH,

sending criminal suspects on trial is the job of the AG and a Grand Jury. That is how our jurisprudence system works. As to putting them in prison...that would be up to a jury amd a judge. My only concern is that neither Bush, Cheney, or the American People got their day in court.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Oct 5, 2010, at 3:46 PM

On the Supreme Court, so you admit that they can do complete reversal on some issues, but your stance seemed so final concerning them on another issue.

Note, I don't really want to argue abortion with you since it would be a totally futile exercise. I know neither of us have the slightest chance of changing the other's opinion on the subject. Just pointed out what I perceived to be an inconsistency between some of your arguments on differing issues.

-- Posted by Philemon on Tue, Oct 5, 2010, at 9:40 AM

News,

This is old news, I think from while you were on vacation, but what did you think of that report that came out about the start and end dates of the recession? I was amazed to find out that it had already ended some time ago. Don't have time to find a link right now, but it was big in the news a few weeks ago, with most commentators having trouble keeping straight faces while reporting it. I'm betting we are actually in total agreement on this one.

-- Posted by Philemon on Tue, Oct 5, 2010, at 9:27 AM

Oops! Another typo...

make that "Try Bush and Cheney in this forum..." lol

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Oct 5, 2010, at 8:48 AM

JHH

We have covered this ground before. The evidence has already been laid out. As I said before, we won't be ttying Bush and Cheney in this forum. However, they certainly should have gone on trial immediately after they were out of office. We the People were robbed of our day in court.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Oct 5, 2010, at 8:42 AM

OOps..

here is that link lol...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comme...

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Oct 5, 2010, at 8:09 AM

"IMF admits that the West is stuck in near depression"

IMF admits that the West is stuck in near depression

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Oct 5, 2010, at 8:08 AM

Philemon

Actually I found that an interesting decision since it was a complete rervesal of their earlier rulings. But I really had no problem with it. My only concern was that he do a good job. Instead he did a terrible job. He broke our laws with impunity and lied to us bare faced and with out concern. During the whole process he made his rich family and rich friends richer while he made the rest of America poorer.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Oct 5, 2010, at 7:55 AM

I'm glad to see you changed your mind News. I see you finally agree that the Supreme Court was so totally correct and well within their rights when they did their part in making Bush our president. (end sarcasm)

-- Posted by Philemon on Tue, Oct 5, 2010, at 7:44 AM

JHH

If you prefer to intentionally misinterpret the word mate...that is your perogative mate.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Oct 5, 2010, at 6:38 AM

JHH

In the USA, the Supreme Court does have the final say. Only the Court can interpret the Constitution.

Regarding my use of Aussisms...I will continue to use the vernacular that is common in that area in which I live. It may be an Aussie term but you and most Americans fully understand what an Aussie means by "mate."

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Oct 5, 2010, at 3:34 AM

I feel that trying to take the moral highground by excusing the 'use' of Klaus Barbie for 'intelligence' by the USA is an oxymoron. Any harboring of Nazis for whatever reason is abhorrent and defending them is a reflection low moral character.

-- Posted by Divergent Thinker on Tue, Oct 5, 2010, at 3:18 AM

john henry's hammer

Yes cut and paste is an easy method of quoting...unlike the old days when we had to copy it by hand...huge difference!

So besides semantics (mate means friend in Australian...mate) and technical quotation matters. did you have any comment you want to make regarding the fact that you were completely wrong and that viability of life is the line drawn by the Courts to determine when human life begins -- other than asserting that your legal opinion is far superior to that of the Supreme Court?

Only the Court has the authority to interpret the Constitution, Marury V Madison, 1803.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marbury_v._...

I am sure your opinion matters a lot to you and your friends, unfortunately for you and your friends (and fortunately for the rest of America), your opinion has no direct effect on Constitutional matters and has no legal standing.

Only a woman has exclusive rights to her own body. You and your conservatives pals can keep your hands off a woman's body, her reproductive system, and her right to choose...

...because ITS THE LAW!!

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Oct 5, 2010, at 1:12 AM

I'll start out by saying,i have read this blog for a long time,i agree with both sides on some of the pros & cons that's been said.Not a lot ,but a few! By now i think you know witch side i lean too! I try to see the wright & wrong in everything! I want to ask if a few of you REALLY,REALLY,DEEP IN YOUR SOUL,feel that this first Black Man, Elected as President of our United States of America,(OBAMA) is there to do harm to us or the nation,and his place in American History? And if you do, as a personal observation & feeling, i think you have lost all reality & faith, in our Country?

-- Posted by Jo on Tue, Oct 5, 2010, at 12:45 AM

The Government is not there for them too invade the choice of Peoples health, or how they handle it! "Their" there too make the Peoples lives better. If you want euthanasia , that's the Families business! If a Woman wants an abortion that's her business,it may not be all women's choice but, don't take it away from the ones that do! You will run them into the hands of unqualified butchers! It's happened before, remember?

-- Posted by Jo on Mon, Oct 4, 2010, at 11:49 PM

Anyone read the book "Dupes: How America's Adversaries have manipulated progressives for a century"?

I am in the first few chapters... I knew the communists from Russia had a great influence during the 1920s- 40s.... I am reading with great anticipation to see how progressives are being DUPED in today's current time period... This book is based on RUSSIAN documentation that was released after the cold war ended and some US documentation that was released.

I know some or most of you will automatically, without an open mind, disregard this book as a right winger radical trying to bash the leftists... but I DARE you to read it, read the citations and information that backs it up and then refute it with documentation that is factual

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Oct 4, 2010, at 11:15 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzEoZCnrI...

if the link works... interesting food for thought...

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Oct 4, 2010, at 11:06 PM

JHH

The Supreme Court in Roe V Wade ruled that the exclusive control of a woman's body, under the 14th Ammendment -- equality before the law -- belongs entirely to the woman and her alone until such time as the fetus reaches the point of viabliltiy (normally at 6 months but sometimes a bit earlier). At the point of viablity, the fetus is recognized as a human being by both medical science and the Supreme Court.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/hi...

http://www.nytimes.com/1989/04/18/scienc...

In addition, the Supreme Court in Webster v. Reproductive Health Services, 492 U.S. 490, 109 S. Ct. 3040, 106 L. Ed. 2d 410 (1989),

"...upheld the constitutionality of Missouri Revised Statutes section 188.029, which required physicians to perform certain medical tests when there was reason to believe a fetus had reached at least 20 weeks of gestational age. These tests, which included assessments of fetal weight and lung maturity, were designed to determine the viability of an unborn child."

paragraph 6

http://law.jrank.org/pages/11255/Webster...

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionar...

http://openjurist.org/492/us/490/webster...

Our right to own and control and exercise complete jurisdiction over our own medical health is firmly rooted in the 14th Ammendment. This Ammendment was important and was the will of The People of the Untied States. The People ammended the Constitution in order to protect the civil human rights of minorities -- individuals -- who were former slaves of the Southern States. Prior to the 14th Ammendment, States argued that the Bill of Rights of the U.S. Consititution only applied to the obligations of the Federal Government. As a result, the Southern States were systematically denying African American's citizenship and then basically enslaving them again through wage slavery and Jim Crow laws which denied African Americans equal access to the schools, public services, and often times, due process of law.

Recongizing the limitations of the 13th Ammendment, which outlawed slavery and was intended to extend full civil rights to African Americans, The People established the 14th Ammendment which extended the Federal Government's obligations under the Bill of Rights to include all the various States. In addition, it established the inalienability of natural citizenshp and guaranteed equality of all citizens and individuals before the law.

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html...

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html...

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/const...

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/const...

There are some in the anti-choice crowd that are motivated by far more than some moral sense in the matter of abortion. There are some who would like to see this entire Ammendment gone because they believe it would bring back what some of them see as the "good old days of States rights" in which the systematic violation of the human rights of individuals is possible under the law and the rights of individuals dissolve in the face of a simple majority.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/05...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rep-luis-g...

Rest assured JHH, We the People will never allow the 14th Ammendent, and its guarantees of equality before the law, to fall by the way side.

I believe that we can always trust our Republic to guarantee human rights in the United States and its territories for as long as the grass grows and the wind blows...mate...

...and rightly so!

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Oct 4, 2010, at 5:55 PM

John Henry, can you please rephrase your question?

"Is there a difference between "harboring" Nazi's and using a thug for covert operations?" I do not understand what you mean by this statement.

-- Posted by Divergent Thinker on Mon, Oct 4, 2010, at 3:53 PM

On the issue of abortion:

For me the whole issue comes down to the question of who has exclusive control over a woman's body -- the woman or the state?

Since the Constitution does allow for states to limit abortions beyond the 2nd trimester (the point of viability of the neonate), the life and rights of the viable human baby are thus protected by law and as much as medical science can protect the baby.

So really the issue is does the state have the right to exclusive control over the woman's body prior to the 3rd trimester of pregancy, and the 14th Ammendment to our Federal Constitution answers that question with a resounding NO!

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Oct 4, 2010, at 3:14 PM

"DNC raises more than $16 million in September"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/10/dnc-r...

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Oct 4, 2010, at 3:05 PM

How about a little Donald Duck cartoon? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfuwNU0js...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Oct 4, 2010, at 1:26 PM

I am a pure libertarian on this issue. I do not believe that any government has any right whatsoever to tell any woman what she must do about anything that goes on in her own body, but then you already knew that, right?

One more hypothetical question for you. You might call this a flexibility test.

A woman is one month pregnant, early tests indicate that the fetus is essentally brain dead, but is capable of living with expensive around the clock care for as long as ten years, maybe more. It the mother carries the fetus to term she will die in childbirth. Abort, or no abort?

Roy Blunt, and at least 76 other Republicans say let the mother die. Are you also with him on that one?

The questions only get tougher guys.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Oct 4, 2010, at 1:24 PM

British environmentalists: murder children for a Greener tomorrow!

http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2010/10...

Is this what we want coming to America. Do not watch this if you have a weak stomach.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Oct 4, 2010, at 12:48 PM

The OneNation March: November's Choices Are Clearer Than Ever

even though OneNation had tried to compete with Glenn Beck's "Restoring Honor" rally, attendance was far less.

http://www.redstate.com/laborunionreport...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Oct 4, 2010, at 12:37 PM

Okr if you can't tell where I stand on the issue you didn't read my post. I agree with John would you give a baby a death sentence or the father? This country would be better off if we made murder(abortion) illegal as it should be.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Oct 4, 2010, at 12:21 PM

Eric I have been thinking about the following concept for a while so I thought I might broach it to you so that you would have some time to think about it.

Would you consider reopening the front page Speakout to politics for the period of two weeks prior to the upcomimg election?

We the people will be bombarded by television adds pro, and con, concerning the many candidates. Most of those sound bites will lack depth, and be created solely to elicit an emotional response from potential voters.

On the original Speakout venue (which has a greater exposure than this one) we (left, right, and center) could give truth to the lies sometimes promulgated in media advertising, and detail to the discussion.

I see it as a service to the community.

Many folks will not take the time to garner an in depth comprehension of candidates positions. That forum could be an excellent resource for folks who need an expedient source for additional information regarding the candidates.

It could become a virtual village square where proponets of candidates could tout the virtues of their candidates, and/or defend their candidates against false attacks.

Further, in this day of candidates with the most money often having an unchallenged forum it would give the actual candidates, especially those with less resources, an opportunity to present their ideas on at least one even playing field. That to me should be the American way. We must come up with ways to assure that every one has an equal chance. I truly believe that innovative steps such as this will help to take the money out of politics.

I can appreciate the need for special rules regarding opportunities of this nature. On the original village squares, speakers were occasionally pulled from their stumps, and subjected to eye gouging, groin kneeing, ear biting "wrasslin". In a virtual village square incendiary remarks that lead to such behavior can be whisked away with the touch of a key. The best of both worlds, eh?

I can also appreciate that you have a publisher to whom you must answer. This concept may be a no go because the publisher says so. I hope though that instead they, if not enthralled by the opportunity to enhance the democratic process, will consider the potential for increased readership.

Thank you.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Oct 4, 2010, at 12:00 PM

Of course it is an obvious typo, I meant 77 Repubs, not 777. I thought I better clear that to not provoke disingenuous response.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Oct 4, 2010, at 10:16 AM

JHH, and rr3: I will answer your questions when the two of you quit dancing around the specific question I asked. To wit, where do you stand on the issue of whether, or not an eleven year old child impregnated by her genetic father should be forced to carry that baby to term. Are you with Roy Blunt, and at least 777 other Republican candidates on insisting she have the baby, or not?

Well?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Oct 4, 2010, at 10:10 AM

those who lump all democrats together and all republicans together are missing the point that the american people are trying to make even now.

we're tired of sterotypes and voting the "party line."

we need independent thinkers who will do what they told their constituents they would do when and if elected.

not all dems are for abortion - not all dems are for bigger government - not all repubs are for bailing out wall street.

why don't we all despense with the generalities and try to make sense for a change - instead of just attacking someone because they are liberal or conservative.

i suppose there are lots of conservative, pro-life dems out there - and am certain there are more than a few liberal, big government republicans around.

i'm just sayin

zeke

-- Posted by zeke on Mon, Oct 4, 2010, at 10:07 AM

You are right John and with Obamacare coming to fruition we will be able to kill the old people when they and later we become inconvenient. One thing okr was right about was that the devil is in charge when decisions like that are made.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Oct 4, 2010, at 7:10 AM

The Dark Underside of Abortion

http://bible.org/article/dark-underside-...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Oct 4, 2010, at 6:32 AM

Okr what is your stand on abortion? You say anyone against abortion is a monster what about the father that molest his 11 year old daughter and gets her pregnant isn't he a monster or worse? No matter how conceived it is not the child's fault but they pay the price whether it is a criminal act or a night of fun. What about young girls that choose to have sex should they automatically have to right to choose to abort where does it end? Maybe the right to murder should be raised to 1 or 2 years that way they could have the child and decide no not for me so just kill it is there a difference?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Oct 4, 2010, at 6:24 AM

Never did get those facts news.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Oct 4, 2010, at 5:51 AM

News and yours is????

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Oct 4, 2010, at 5:40 AM

"White House: Dems gaining ground on GOP in voter enthusiasm"

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-r...

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Oct 4, 2010, at 4:15 AM

Outrage about any country protecting Nazis is justifiable and commendable as long as the outrage is applied in a non hypocritical manner. Perhaps some readers are not aware of the close links between the CIA and the Nazis. This article from The National Security Archives should clarify this issue

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAE...

Might I also suggest that readers google 'Klaus Barbie' (the butcher of Lyon) and read about his close ties with the CIA.

-- Posted by Divergent Thinker on Mon, Oct 4, 2010, at 2:54 AM

"Bernie Sanders: Republicans do not want America to succeed"

"...what has happened is the Republicans have said no, no, no. They have waged more filibusters than any time in the history of this country. They have been the party of no and obstructionism,..." Bernie Sanders

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/10/sande...

Do we really want to put the Republicans back into power? I mean, really...do we? Given the enormous failures of the last round of Republican control of Congress gave us torture as a policy, 2 wars, at least one baseed on intentional lies, that "Patriot" Act, fear as a policy, and a great economic depression...again. Do we really, really, really think putting the party of NO! back into power is a good idea?

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Oct 4, 2010, at 2:17 AM

A Prologue

At times we all are desperate at the insanity of it all.

Hiding our heads under a pillow, hoping for a knock, or call.

"Are you there my friend, come out, come out, this you must see."

To this do you confess? If so you are like them and me.

Sometimes a simple poem, and the words wrapped round it said.

Can cause to throw back covers, and rouse you from your bed.

I meant this as a prologue, and a tribute to the linked comment by William Rivers Pitt. http://www.truth-out.org/come-wake-me-up...

Something we can all take from: http://www.truth-out.org/come-wake-me-up...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Oct 4, 2010, at 1:20 AM

At least 78 GOP candidates would force women to bear a child fathered by a rapist, even if that rapist were her own genetic father. What kind of monsters is the Republican Party offering to the people to represent them?

By the way Missouri's own Roy Blunt is one of the 78 who supports a no exception anti-abortion law.

Thankfully that extreme will never fly until hell freezes over because it has been vacated by the Devil who will be reigning on earth.

It is hideous. It is disgusting. I do not see how anyone could ever vote for anyone that would vote to force an eleven year old little girl to bear a baby that was fathered by her own genetic father.

Where are you on this one right wing blog posters?

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/09/78-go...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Oct 4, 2010, at 12:28 AM

"Israeli court: Soldiers used 9 year old Palestinian boy as human shield"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/10/israe...

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Oct 3, 2010, at 10:16 PM

I was at the 8/28 Restoring Honor Rally, also have pictures of how clean 650,000 people left the mall. Here is a link to how the 10/2/10 Communist Rally looked. http://maroonedinmarin.blogspot.com/2010...

-- Posted by US male on Sun, Oct 3, 2010, at 8:32 PM

"impeccable"...ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha...

rr, you have a really good sense of humor mate.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Oct 3, 2010, at 7:48 PM

You're right okr impeccable!!!!!!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Oct 3, 2010, at 5:29 PM

"Thousands gather for 'One Nation' rally in D.C."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39474438/ns/...

Right on, Right on, Right on!!

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Oct 3, 2010, at 4:29 PM

rr3: And anyone putting stock in Rush Limbaugh speaks volumes about their character.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Oct 3, 2010, at 3:27 PM

Okr #5 would be impossible for D's or R's or any other party. Money drives the corruption and anyone putting stock in what Michael Moore says doesn't say much for their character. Though some of what he says could be true how has he made all his money CAPITALISM. Don't you hate that?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Oct 3, 2010, at 9:34 AM

News it would be nice to have some facts about Brazil's successful socialist policies. What is the average wage? minimum wage? poverty level? you know the facts mate.

Just saying they are the worlds eight largest economy does not mean everything is rosy or successful.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Oct 3, 2010, at 9:25 AM

"Former Marxist Guerrilla poised to be Brazil's first female president"

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americ...

When the Worlds 8th largest economy in the is poised to continue its successful socialist policies...that is something no one can ignore.

While our economy has floundered under failed conservative economic polcies, South American socialist economies are booming!

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Oct 2, 2010, at 4:42 PM

OKR,

I like Mike's ideas. However, I think the mainstream Democrat politicians quit listening to any of us on the left the day President Obama took office.

Well let's hope the coming return to the Bush years will be enough to wake the mainstream up in the 2012 election.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Oct 2, 2010, at 7:09 AM

That is an interesting commentary News, though the upshot is that the Dems are still going to lose big, just for different reasons than are bandied about in most quarters these days.

Here is a take that I believe could turn all the prognostications into nothing but wind. Is it going to happen? Naw, because Democrats refuse to be Democrats. They would rather hug the knees of Republican king pins, and say, oh pretty please?

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/mike-f...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Oct 1, 2010, at 11:34 PM

"NEWSWEEK Poll: Anger Unlikely to Be Deciding Factor in Midterms"

http://www.newsweek.com/2010/10/01/newsw...

This is an interesting analysis.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Oct 1, 2010, at 5:24 PM

Jo

I think the most important aspect of any comment is to get the point across clearly and with as few words as possible. I am terrible at it. You are excellent at it. In my opinion, simple words can carry a whole lot of wisdom.

Anyway, yeah i haven't seen much of okr, or nandot, or slater or any of the other sane people posting on hear lately...well till your posting lol. I think the gang was pretty busy holding their own while I was on vacation. I wasn't posting much but I was reading the comments. Tough bunch! lol -- they give no quarter and take no prisoners lol. I hope we see them come on hack and get their 2 cents in again soon.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Sep 30, 2010, at 11:48 PM

Hey,,News Across,Thanks! I don't speak as eloquent as the rest of you guys,but i do like too express my frustrations on our silly Political system! Glad to see your back and well! Don't hear much from,Nana Dot,and Oklahoma,and nothing from White Tornado! Hope he's well.i knew his family when he was a KID, Good man,Good family!

-- Posted by Jo on Thu, Sep 30, 2010, at 9:09 PM

Jo,

I loved readiing your comment!

I especially liked it when you said,

"Or taking a vote too see if they want to vote on a bill, what the hell is that?"

I think you speak for millions of us with just that one sentence and one question alone.

Jo, I love reading your comments. You always put things in a way that anyone can easily understand your point.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Sep 30, 2010, at 6:44 PM

Philemon

Actually the study speaks for itself. It was done scientifically and the quantitative methods used are no secret. As to reading anything into it...is that what posting a link to a study is? Is that what you mean by "reading something into it?" Are you saying posting a link = reading something into it? Inquiring minds want to know lol.

As to what Americans accept...well...the electorate appears ready to put back into power the same folks that caused the current major economic depression, using the same exact failed economic policies they used before, and who almost caused the bottom to fall out of the economy entirely. Yes apparaently we Americans make odd choices in what we will and will not accept.

I look forward to watching the events unfold in the USA over the next few years. This should be interesting Phil...lol lol lol.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Sep 30, 2010, at 6:12 PM

Concerning the article about Sweden, some need to read the whole article and quit reading things into it. The poll says that most Americans would like for the the incomes here to be dispersed closer to the way they are in Sweden. By dispersed, they don't mean how the incomes are arrived at, they mean a larger middle class, fewer poor, fewer extremely rich.

It goes on to say that most Americans would be unwilling to take the steps Sweden took to make that happen.

Basically, yes, most Americans would like for everyone to have a good income and be near the same economic level as everyone else, but, most still want everyone to earn that level the old fashioned way, themselves.

-- Posted by Philemon on Thu, Sep 30, 2010, at 2:56 PM

It seems to me by everything i've read that there is very few that thinks anything of of how the System is used. Not just change healthcare, or wall street. Things like Public Finance! These are all good things ,but what has to be done too get there,the way the system works,like the three quarters vote to pass anything.I Always think of what has happened too the 51% for anything else in life that calls for a majority vote? Or taking a vote too see if they want to vote on a bill, what the hell is that? Other than a stall tactic? In my opinion its this kind of nonsense the people should demand stopped,this is not a game for them too manipulate. These people get in office and start putting things to gather so that they can manipulate this or that! Are we stupid to let things like this happen? WE have no say about their retirement package,or any say on what kind of raises they approve for themselves? We must be nuts or just unconcerned about the abuse they inflict on us, We are the Government, so why hasn't there been much demands on all this? Just a novice like me,on Politic can see the motivation on a lot of things is to stall and keep our opinion out of it! My reading ran across so many things that could be changed to make the system more honest & efficient These changes are needed too expedite the system! I know everyone is fixated on Jobs and Wall Street the Debt.In my opinion these change and others are need before you can proceed fixing any of the rest? Its insane!! Term limits are a good idea that jhh expressed,That's the only thing that i have agreed on that he has stated.But that how good ideas come about ,regardless of Party??

-- Posted by Jo on Thu, Sep 30, 2010, at 1:11 PM

I think JHH that you have veered into a subject other than that which we were discussing.

Anyway, if you are not interested in reading about the study that is entirely your perogative mate.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Sep 30, 2010, at 9:27 AM

rr3yv0

Regarding defining poverty, I hope the information in these links will be helpful.

1.) "What are poverty thresholds and poverty guidelines?"

The Institute for Research on Poverty

http://www.irp.wisc.edu/faqs/faq1.htm

2.) "U.S. poverty rate hits 15-year high"

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1617...

3.) "2009/2010 HHS Poverty Guidelines"

http://liheap.ncat.org/profiles/povertyt...

Also, besides income one must also consider the net assets of an individual to determine his economic class status. An individual who makes $1 a year and has no net assets is clearly a poor individual. A person who makes $1 a year but also has a billion dollars in net assets is clearly not poor. I prefer to determine what percentage of society owns the most of the means of production and distribution of goods and services in the economy when defining terms such as capitalist and rich. Likewise, in determining the number of poor I would look to see what percentage of the population owns and controls the least amount of the means of production and distribution of goods and services.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Sep 29, 2010, at 7:54 PM

JHH

I am reposting this again in response to your comments regarding Sweden. I hope you get a chance to read it mate. I think you will agree its a very revealing study.

"Study: Most Americans want wealth distribution similar to Sweden"

"92 percent prefer Swedish model to US model when given a choice"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/09/poll-...

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Sep 29, 2010, at 7:01 PM

rr3yv0

In answer to your questions:

A.) Tax redistribution in capitalist economies are necessary to push the flow of capital to those areas of the economy in which it can most efficently increase consumption and alliviate the severity of poverty. In short it is a mechanism by which the capitalists attempt to prevent what we sometimes call in economics "3rd Class Coach Theory." This theory holds that empirical evidence demonstrates that when the masses have nothing left to lose but their own lives, they will revolt and take what ever they want from the capitalist class -- see French Revolution, Russian Revolution, and Chinese Revolution for more on this.

B.) Yes the most successful economy today is a socialist economy. China has a socialist economy as first laid out by Mao and later improved by Deng. Deng's modifications, known very well and commonly in China as "The Plan, have produced not only the most successful socialist economy in the World but in fact the fastest growing economy in the World as well as what will ulitmately be the World's biggest market.

http://english.cpc.people.com.cn/mediafi...

http://english.cpc.people.com.cn/mediafi...

http://english.cpc.people.com.cn/mediafi...

http://www.spiegel.de/international/spie...

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/KJ03A...

C.) Yes there is a difference between the term "scientifically planned economy" and the term "Democratic Socialism." "Scientifically Planned economy" refers to a socialist economy but makes no spedific reference to the nature of the government. "Democratic Socialism" requires a Democratic form of government in a nation with a socialist economy.

http://www.dsausa.org/dsa.html

D.) There are different varieties of socialism and thus they have different approaches to how government revenues are accumulated. Lenin believed in Nationalizing all businesses. China's Deng, however, prefered the approach currently in use in China where by all businesses are co-owned by the People of China (as represented by thier Government) and the individual entrepenuer. The People own 51% of all businesses in China. The Peoples share of the profits are the primary source of Government revenue. See answer A for more on this.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Sep 29, 2010, at 5:56 PM

Are people broke or poor news. How do we determine that? I know people that make $100,000 a year and they are broke and I know people that make $25,000 a year and they are broke. I know a guy that makes less than $6,000 a year and he has no debt and yes he does live in a house and is able to pay all his bills. I asked him why he doesn't try to make more money and he says he is happy where he is at. He don't even have to file income tax because his income is so low. He gets no public assistance. Is he poor? In some ways he's better off than the person chasing debt. So how do you define poor?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Sep 29, 2010, at 4:55 PM

rr3yv0

Poor People pay sales tax on most of their income since they have to spend most of their income right away.

Rich folks don't tend to spend all their income and while they may be richer, that does not mean they purchase more groceries. So they only pay sales tax on that portion of their income that the do spend.

Percentage of income paid out on sales tax = (portion of income consumed x sales tax percentage)/income

The math is real simple mate.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Sep 29, 2010, at 4:37 PM

"Poll: Most Americans want wealth distribution similar to Sweden"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/09/poll-...

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Sep 29, 2010, at 4:27 PM

According to my math sales tax is a certain percentage of dollars spent and that percent can vary depending on where you spend it. Lets say it is 8% how does that percentage get higher if you spend all of your income? Seems to me whatever a person spends it would be 8% no matter what you spent. Maybe economist do math different then I do.

Why is redistribution required in a capitalist system?

Is there a scientifically planned economy that has been tried or in place we can look at or is that only theory?

Is there a difference between a democratic socialist economic system and a scientifically planned economy?

If everyone takes home 100% of what they earn how does the government operate?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Sep 29, 2010, at 2:28 PM

john henry's hammer

My information regarding taxes comes from mathmatics. People who spend all their income pay a larger percentage of their income in sales tax relative to a person who does not spend most of his or her income. The more a person spends of their income, the higher the percentage of their income that is paid out in sales tax.

As far as your and my assistance to the poor in tax redistribution, bare in mind that the IRS reports that less than 1 percent goes directly to the poor in terms of cash welfare payments. Being poor in America is no joy ride. In fact, most poor folks I have known work very hard, long hours doing America's hardest jobs and they receive no Federal assistance at all. I have noticed you conservatives don't mind redirstibuting our tax dollars to the richest americans though -- but you seem to hate to see it redistributed to the folks who need it most.

As far as a Professor grading on a curve...that is not unusual at all and tends to be a standard practice at most Universities I am familiar with. However, yes I prefer the pass/fail system which is much fairer to the student and encourages the student to learn with out the worry of his efforts failing only because the professor grades on a curve.

As far as redistribution of income goes...that is only necessary in a capitalist economy. In a scientifically planned economy, the equity is distributed fairly and evenly with all members of the society benefiting...the first time around.

Regarding a flat tax. I oppose all taxes. Under a democratic socialist economic system, taxes are not necessary. In a scientifically planned economy you take home what you earn -- 100% of it -- and as Sweden and Norway have both proven, under socialism that take home pay can be quite substantial for everyone.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Sep 29, 2010, at 9:18 AM

Wicked potions brewed by Coons, Feingold and most any Democrat

Finally, the Democratic Party will be held accountable for the proven failure of liberal economic policies that the Left has dreamed of for 100 years

http://www.redstate.com/thomasrspencer/2...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Sep 29, 2010, at 6:32 AM

The Dead Just Keep On Voting

Democrats seem to be suspiciously inept at cleaning out the rolls.

http://www.redstate.com/thomasrspencer/2...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Sep 29, 2010, at 6:26 AM

News again you are mistaken I didn't bring to question the objective poll that was referenced only the opinion inferred by the author.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Sep 29, 2010, at 4:06 AM

rr3yv0

Most folks, rich and poor alike, pay some form of Federal Taxation...sometimes disguised as "fees," but frankly considering that the poor pay so much more sales tax as a percentage of their income than do the rich, do you really think they care whether they are paying local or state tax or federal tax? They probably only know that it eats up a big chunk of their meager income and/or very limited assets. In addition, whenever the Federal Government cuts Federal Funding to states and cities -- which it typically does under conservative administrations -- that money has to be recovered locally and is then paid by all the tax-payers in that state...such as the poor and homeless. Of course the good thing is that no matter how much or what type of tax they are paying, they all are entitled to one vote each in every election...and there are a whole lot of them.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Sep 28, 2010, at 9:16 PM

rr3yv0

Also,...the news article was reporting the findings of an objective poll of teabaggers. They are the ones who answered the questions.

If you have a question about the poller's quantitative methods then I suggest you contact that company and make an inquiry.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Sep 28, 2010, at 9:02 PM

rr3yv0

Any person who makes a purchase at any shop in Missouri...and most other states...is also a tax-payer.

Regressive taxes, such as sales tax, not only count but are in fact much harder on the poor than they are on the rich. This is because the poor must spend all their income in order to survive, while the rich only spend a limited portion of their income -- a luxury afforded them by their extreme wealth.

I don't know of any consumer that is not also a taxpayer -- including all the poor and homeless. They pay taxes too and they are entitiled to an equal say in how our tax revenues are used.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Sep 28, 2010, at 8:29 PM

News you mean the big difference is Democrat or Republican don't you?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Sep 28, 2010, at 7:23 PM

News do you really expect people that pay no taxes to complain about big government and higher taxes? Seems the only point of the authors opinion was to discredit the tea party. Did he expect the people on government assistance to join in?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Sep 28, 2010, at 7:16 PM

"dependendent"...lol...now there is a new word for ya folks...lol.

Sorry for the typos.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Sep 28, 2010, at 5:50 PM

"Survey Shows Consumer Confidence Dropped to its Lowest Point Since February Amid Job Concerns"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39398929/ns/...

All capitalist economies turn on ever increasing consumption. Consumption is dependendent upon consumer confidence in the future of the economy and their own personal future in that economy.

So...how is that capitalism working out for ya there boss?

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Sep 28, 2010, at 4:59 PM

"Poll: Vast majority of tea party participants are white, wealthy and affluent"

"Despite their apparent anger over government spending on social programs, the vast majority of tea party participants have never worried about putting food on their family's table, according to a new poll."

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/09/poll-...

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Sep 28, 2010, at 4:45 PM

rr3yv0

Well mate, I just think there is a big difference between a person who makes the law (legisitator) and a person who breaks the law (criminal).

Phil,

Yeah regarding the ignorance of many Christians when it comes to their own religious beliefs, I too feel the problem is rooted in lack of education. This may include the lack of ability to learn at anything other than a minimal, functional level. Not surprisingly, it was the athiests who scored best on the test -- way outscoring the religious folks.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Sep 28, 2010, at 4:40 PM

News I wasn't really questioning the legality of the matter. Would it have mattered to you liberals if Bush had done it legally? Mighty nice of Obama to do something legally.

The religious survey is not surprising. It tends to be the church's goal to bring people to accept Christ and then we forget to teach them what it is all about. A lot of Catholics believe it because the church tells them to and they never bother to find out why. Good example is the statement about the bread and the wine actually being or becoming the body of Christ and not a symbol is false but most will never question the church.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Sep 28, 2010, at 11:30 AM

Interesting, but not surprising. I'd like to take that test since I think I would have scored well. I knew all the answers to the questions mentioned in the article anyway.

Their conclusion about it being a matter of the level of education rather than how religious a person is makes sense. After all, a Baptist for example doesn't have to know anything about being a good Methodist to be a good Baptist.

The ones that didn't know much about their own claimed religion probably fit into the category of supposed Christians that only attend church on Christmas and Easter.

-- Posted by Philemon on Tue, Sep 28, 2010, at 9:59 AM

Well Phil, maybe you will find this interesting...

"Survey: Americans don't know much about religion

But atheists actually know more than Protestants and Catholics, Pew Forum finds"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39397251/ns/...

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Sep 28, 2010, at 8:20 AM

Darn News, that wasn't good enough, and I had yesterday in the pool. Just kidding. Really am glad to see you back. I don't agree with you that often, but reading the back and forth is much more entertaining than just reading the forth.

-- Posted by Philemon on Tue, Sep 28, 2010, at 7:52 AM

rr3yv0

I read the article you posted a link to regarding wire taps. It was an interesting article.

I did notice some disimilarities between the Democrat approach and the Republican approach to wire tapping.

President Obama intends to submit proposed changes to US Title 50, Chapter 36 to Congress for their consideration. If Congress approves then they will pass the legislation and submit it for the President's signature.

President Bush did not bother to go to Congress. He simply began wire tapping with out warrants on millions of Americans private telephone and internet communications in clear and direct violation of Title 50, Chapter 36.

I think between the 2 approaches, President Obama's approach is at least a lawful, democratic approach to changing legislation...unlike President Bush's approach to it by simply breaking the law...multiple times.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Sep 28, 2010, at 6:44 AM

You guys need to quit baiting news he can't help it.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Sep 28, 2010, at 6:33 AM

Fox a Clear Winner for Election News

http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/FoxMS...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Sep 28, 2010, at 6:32 AM

US Would Make Internet Wiretaps Easier

Alright where are the idiot liberals screaming when Bush did this for our safety and security. I guess its alright now.

http://www.newsmax.com/SciTech/USInterne...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Sep 28, 2010, at 6:28 AM

MRXRAY: I would like too have the link on the expansion of the Patriot Act,i would like to read it! Thank you.

-- Posted by Jo on Mon, Sep 27, 2010, at 9:45 PM

"FactChecking 'The Pledge':

Republicans' "Pledge to America" falls short on some of its facts." FactCheck.org

http://factcheck.org/2010/09/factcheckin...

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Sep 27, 2010, at 3:17 PM

Phil,

I do have to admit that given what I see in America right now, thank goodness I don't have to live there.

How is that? Is that close enough to what you wanted lol?

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Sep 27, 2010, at 1:48 PM

mrxray

RawStory is a news reporter -- not a blog or opinion page. If you think they have lied about the facts in any matter, please let me know immediately and I would be happy to notify the publisher of their error. However thus far I have only known them to accurately state the facts and leave out any commentary. They are a news source...not an opinion page.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Sep 27, 2010, at 1:45 PM

Tax-Cuts Vote Unlikely until after Elections

Where is the outcry from all the two-faced liberal morons that would be screaming if this was a Republican congress pulling these shenanigans. Well where is the outcry, come on now!

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Tax-Cut...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Sep 27, 2010, at 11:40 AM

Glad to have you back News. It was getting a little boring around here. Really didn't miss the source bashing rather than the content bashing though. I've actually started a pool with my friends as to when we will get the next dual citizenship tirade from you. If I start baiting you on that in a few days, don't take it personal, I just like to win!

-- Posted by Philemon on Mon, Sep 27, 2010, at 7:51 AM

I guess we could define Raw Story as a left wing opinion web site. News might as well be posting links to the Democratic National Committee talking points and spewing their propaganda. News the unqualified opinions you cited have no objectionality or credibility. They are nothing more than the empty opinions of your fellow left-wing wacko extremists -- and all they offer are the exact same policies that got us 2 unending wars, torture as a National policy, and a collapsed economy...thanks but no thanks!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Sep 27, 2010, at 7:23 AM

News.... you bash the right with extreme bias and show every time you open your mouth...er keyboard... that you do not have even one tiny bit that is open minded. AND you try to defend such statements regarding the extreme left with BIASED sources and articles and 'studies' What little scientific data you produce you claim that because it is peer reviewed that this gives it some sort of credibility when in fact peer review is as corrupt as any other endeavor that FAULTY humans undertake.

Then when it comes to economics you can only talk about THEORIES and the idea that somehow one specific economic theory is the best one, when in fact we have much historical data that shows that NO economic theory matches up with reality. You bash capitalism and Nanadot is right there with you but you ALWAYS miss the real culprit in the problems in society, that being humankind. No theoretical system will or can function as desired by the purest mind because there is no such thing in humankind.... You guys decry capitalism but then turn to the MOST corrupt system to attempt to fix the problems that we have in our economy, corruption in government that is system-wide influenced by 100,000s of outside special instrest dollars, INCLUDING socialistic entities that are attempting to manipulate the system for their OWN good and not for the good of the nation.

But on a closing note, how about the fact that Obama and is administration is attempting to expand the patriot act and allow easier tapping of internet communications following in the footsteps of Bush... a policy that I have seen bashed on here as a "REPUBLICAN" issue... LOL

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Sep 27, 2010, at 3:14 AM

Good old Teachers unions 'fixing' our educational system right?

The Vista Unified School District is suing the Vista Teachers Association, the California Teachers Association, and the National Education Association over the wages of its local union president, which is released from teaching responsibilities to work on union business as part of the district's collective bargaining agreement, the North County Times reports.

basically this is about unions forcing school districts to allow teachers to have paid leaves to conduct UNION business, costing school districts money that should be going to TEACHING teachers... they are losing money on the teacher's salary who is not teaching and paying for a sub to teach for them....

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Sep 27, 2010, at 3:03 AM

But heck News... your source raw story is just as biased as anyone elses.... lol sort of hypocritical doncha think?

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Sep 27, 2010, at 3:01 AM

here is another example of SEIU conducting voter fraud... http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/09/...

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Sep 27, 2010, at 2:59 AM

news... lol who cares where the link is from, why not read the data and articles and debate the content,..... if you dare.

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Sep 27, 2010, at 2:56 AM

"'Jewish aid boat' leaves Cyprus bound for Gaza"

"A boat carrying Jewish activists from Israel, Europe and the United States set sail on Sunday from Cyprus bound for Gaza, in a bid to run Israel's blockade of the Palestinian territory."

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/09/jewis...

Well, this should be interesting.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Sep 26, 2010, at 6:23 PM

"Army censors photos of Afghan corpses in 'kill-for-sport' trial"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/09/army-...

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Sep 26, 2010, at 2:52 PM

Well before any of you folks go giving xray's link any credibility, let's all remember all but one of his links are to CNS, an ultra-right wing wacko opinion site. Xray might as well be just posting links to the Republican National Committee talking points and posting their daily propaganda as his source... lol lol lol. Xray the unqualified opinions you cited have no objectionality or credibility. They are nothing more than the empty opinions of your fellow right-wing wacko extremists -- and all they offer are the exact same policies that got us 2 unending wars, torture as a National policy, and a collapsed economy...thanks but no thanks!

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Sep 26, 2010, at 2:37 PM

rr3: Your trying to start a debate on Politic! First off i don't debate on matters i still don't have a handle on right now.I'm just stating an opinion i have at this point, with what i've read about so far, like you are. Opinions are like,the nose on your face, everyone has one! But that doesn't make any of them right! I think,for now i'll go along with Political Science just like any other Scientific study you learn from the mistake's made in the past but most Politicans don't, these things i mentioned in my last post is something,( in my opinion) could help in getting our system back in order! Maybe this should be more of a serious part of the discussion in Washington! With my research on this seems the most fare of all. Like other things in the System that could be changed! Like this misleading statement all of them are making on small business. They can Structure their Business's were Multimillion Dollar Organizations as small business's, (Mom and Pop business,) and pay tax on this,from what i have read so far.! In my Opinion, this is what is killing Part's of our tax System? So far i don't believe in the TRICKEL DOWN THEORY! A lot of this started when Reagen took office,the way i get it! I lived through it but couldn't have cared less at the time ,along with a lot of other's! Too bad!

-- Posted by Jo on Sun, Sep 26, 2010, at 1:35 PM

mr.xray,

Dude, take a breath.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Sep 26, 2010, at 11:50 AM

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/7573...

Another 'study' funded by US tax payers to study sex habits of people in other nations and the nations they migrate to.....

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Sep 26, 2010, at 1:34 AM

http://www.cnsnews.com/commentary/articl...

an interesting piece on equality versus Freedom and liberty

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Sep 26, 2010, at 1:17 AM

ELitist John Kerry is a digging himself another hole..... he who is dependent on his wife''s money considers his self above the rest of us... saying that voters are too stupid and dont pay attention and that is why they are against Democrats in this election cycle... however, IF the elitists in DC paid attention they would understand that people are paying more attention right now to politics than they have in a long time... the public was not paying attention UNTIL Obama and the Dems had the majority and passed all these socialist programs.....

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Sep 26, 2010, at 1:03 AM

Desparation in the Democrat party is funny to watch, instead of standing up for what they supposedly BELIEVE in and fighting strictly based on the merits of what they believe, they are digging for dirt, any dirt that they can find on any candidate.... even if the dirt is made up or not based on factual data supported by documentation...

http://www.startribune.com/politics/nati...

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Sep 26, 2010, at 1:00 AM

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20100925...

This pertains to the new government program that is supposed to stimulate bank lending and small business borrowing... another sad attempt of our government to be the solution to everything while at the same time being the cause of the problems that needs solutions in almost every case

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Sep 26, 2010, at 12:56 AM

Here is another example... the environmental wackos have been using the scare tactics that the world was going to end if we did not do something about mother nature..... they claimed in the 1970s that the world was going to have another ice age.... we were going to freeze and millions would die so we HAD to do something NOW.... it was a crisis... YET I dont remember being abnormally cold... I do remember a colder than normal winter where we got 36+ inches of snow in north Missouri all at once but not in the same snow storme in 1976/77. Now they are falsely saying the world is going to end because of man made global warming YET their science is shaddy at best and purposefully manipulating and distorted at worst in a scam to mislead many people and once the data behind the "peer reviewed papers" were released many of the scientist that signed the intitial papers backed off their statements of agreeance. That is just one example of the left using crisis and sky is falling mentality to push policy... another is mandating the stoppage offshore drilling... another is cap and tax stupidity that will harm our poor people as energy rates skyrocket as Obama desires based on faulty science in the climate area....

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Sep 25, 2010, at 11:22 PM

Jo: if you want to claim that Beck is full of fear and sky is falling guy, how do you feel about the leftists that utilize fear and 'the sky is falling' propaganda to push almost all policies and legislation that they do? Or are you saying that you dont think the left does the same thing? LOL How about this for a flip side example: In the early to mid 2000s, President Bush Jr told us repeatedly, as did Sen. McCain, that the economy was completely intertwined with the fanny/freddie debacle and the hyper-inflated housing marktet that was created by a socialist policy that tried to claim that every person had a right to own a home? He said that because small local banks were being forced to lend money to risky people and those loans were being sold to bigger banks where they bundled them and sold them on a betting/futures market and that many VERY large corporations were investing in these sub-prime loan bundles. He said that because so many large businesses were investing large amounts of money on these risky items that it was going to catch up with us. In fact in 2006 and 2007 Bush warned us once again as did McCain. YET the DEMOCRAT leading senators like Franks and Dodd claimed that Bush was just fear mongering.

SO for you to say that someone on the right is fear mongering, how do you justify that statement with the above example of a Republican President being accused of fear mongering as it pertained to the Fannie/Freddie situation and the sub prime mortgage disaster ESPECIALLY since Bush's prediction came true?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Sep 25, 2010, at 11:16 PM

JO

We had a great time on our holiday in America.

San Francisco was fun, but Chicago was even better. In fact, in Chicago the view from our Hotel Room on the 19th floor of the Sun-Times Building was nothing short of breath-taking. We did a lot of shopping as American goods are so inexpensive...the Miracle Mile, Macy's, and of course the shops on Michigan Avenue were definately on our venue. We also went on several sight-seeing tours both by bus and by boat. I highly recomend the architectual tour if you are ever in Chicago -- and yes they do serve wine! lol. We also went to a couple of the museums -- they were free for the week so we took advantage of the price. I really enjoyed the Field Museum but the Planetarium was a bit disapointing.

It was a fun trip and now its nice to be back home. Our dogs were very happy to come home after their 3 weeks at the kennel...or as I like to call it...fat camp for chubby puppies. Of course, after all the great food we had in America, I think perhaps I might need some of that fat-camp treatment myself lol...notice I didn't mention my wife in referrence to fat camp?... She can speak for herself on subjects of weight lol. Anyway, we are happy to be home and are currently getting over the jet lag. As an added bonus, I started suffering from a cold almost exactly 24 hours after I got back. Still, better to have the cold at home than while on holiday.

Thanks for asking Jo!

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Sep 25, 2010, at 10:18 PM

News Across : Hope your Vacation went well and your Family enjoyed it! I have a guestion for anyone who would like to have some input?? ,What does everyone think about a Flat Tax, and Term Limits,and should it be put on some kind of Ballot that the people might have some kind say? Going through the Representitive don't have any affect. I know there are proceedures but they don't work either! I've not caught up with the way the system works exectly,(yet),anyone could help me would be appreciated!

-- Posted by Jo on Sat, Sep 25, 2010, at 8:17 PM

"Poll: Most Americans want wealth distribution similar to Sweden"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/09/poll-...

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Sep 25, 2010, at 6:47 PM

Well wtf WHO?????

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Sep 25, 2010, at 5:12 PM

I see beck as a little paranoid nothing! Chicken Little! The Sky is falling, the sky is falling! He dosen't fit in anywere, but his own little head! It must be tarriable to have that much fear in your head? Poor guy!

-- Posted by Jo on Sat, Sep 25, 2010, at 3:35 PM

Comparing Bill Maher to Rush or Beck. Who outright lies the most?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Sep 25, 2010, at 11:55 AM

Bill Maher is NOT the definition of integrity. He is a hypocrit. He uses CAPITALISM to garner money for himself and he benefits financially when people watch and listen to him and they pay for tickets to do so and people places ads during or for his 'events' and his salary with HBO.

He is an angry white man who does not know who he is really angry at. Anyone who can watch Bill Maher and not see that his anger and his extreme LEFT radicalism is not biasing his total behavior and treatment of 'guests' on his show might be having a moment of inability to see their own bias outlook on life.

He gets angry at his guests and belittles them and then turns around and bashes O'Rielly for doing the same thing... for example.

He is a prime example of how radical extremist people are attempting to push the direction of American politics and how those who cry the loudest have the most influence right now... he is no different to the left than Rush is to the Right, except I have never heard Rush get as angry toward so many people like Maher does.. LOL

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Sep 25, 2010, at 1:45 AM

Upsedaisy,

I'm hooked on the BBC comedies. Our local PBS station shows 4 on Sunday nights (10-midnight), and when I remember I tune in to BBC America for some pretty good programming.

I haven't seen The Choir, so I'll check it out.

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Sep 24, 2010, at 11:42 PM

We must have different definitions of both ignorance and integrity. He does give his honest opinion to be sure, but touts it as FACT rather than OPINION, and then claims that anyone that doesn't accept his opinion as fact is either an ignorant uneducated fool or has been brainwashed by those he opposes. I once watched his show every week, but for the past few years I can rarely watch 5 minutes without getting so mad that I have trouble getting to sleep afterward.

Most conservative hosts aren't too much better, just on the opposite end of the spectrum. None of them turn my stomach the way Maher does, except for maybe Michael Savage when he claimed that what ruined America was when we went to the one man one vote principle. He actually claimed that a person should pay a certain amount in taxes before having the right to vote.

-- Posted by Philemon on Fri, Sep 24, 2010, at 3:35 PM

Thats good jhh! We,re good.Have a good day!

-- Posted by Jo on Fri, Sep 24, 2010, at 2:33 PM

Philemon: Bill Maher is a lot of thing but he's not egnorant! He's painfully honest about everything & everybody. He's unique,you don't find Integrity like that anymore from anyone!

-- Posted by Jo on Fri, Sep 24, 2010, at 2:25 PM

Hey Slater,

Glad to know you enjoyed the Yes Minster and sequel. I often think of it, when viewing the machinations of Congress. You definitely see the fine hand of the gobblygook artists in legislation.

It isn't about politics but a show currently running on BBC America is The Choir. Here in the U.S. we have Glee, which is fiction. The Choir is real life. I think Marshall residents, actual and "in our hearts" with interest in music will enjoy it.

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Thu, Sep 23, 2010, at 9:02 PM

Ahmadinejad Condemns Capitalism, U.S. and Its Allies Walk Out

Good because the U. N. is our enemy but maybe some in this country should move to Iran.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/09/...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Sep 23, 2010, at 4:53 PM

"It was pretty fitting that Obama was at the United Nations, promising them that he's going to shift even more income from the US to the world, while at the same time the Republicans were in Virginia in front of a hardware store trying to save our economy." -Rush

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Sep 23, 2010, at 4:42 PM

Jo everyone does not have common sense if that were the case we wouldn't have politicians. There are people who would bring a knife to a gun fight. There are people who would forget their head if it wasn't attached. Where do you get the idea that liberals have a better attitude to everyones well being? Liberals buy votes by making people dependent on the government. I'm all for helping people when they need it let's not do for life. Give a man a fish you feed him for a day, teach him to fish you have helped him feed himself for life. Lets help make people independent.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Sep 23, 2010, at 3:10 PM

I agree, Bill Maher is waaaaaaay too ignorant to be governed. Rush would fit in that class too.

-- Posted by Philemon on Thu, Sep 23, 2010, at 1:22 PM

JHH & AND RR3: Common sense is to me, you don't walk in to a knife fight with out a gun, you don't go for a nightly stroll in a dark crime ridden neighborhood! Common sense is what it is, and everyone has it, i think! And the liberals are have a more humane attitude toward (everyone's) well being, not just a few! They overwhelmingly voted for Democrats , in the last Election for this reason alone! As of right now,the liberals feel the main issue's have not been carried out! I feel the same,but haven't gave up yet.I don't think the fat lady has sang (yet)because there hasn't been enough time with (NO) cooperation on both side's our Government has gotten us in 3 war! One of them is right here in our Government,so how can that be good for our Country? First & Second World War's, everyone cooperated,the same with the Depression!! I've said this before, a quoat from Bill Maher, and it make's so much sense,MAYBE WE'ER TOO EGNORANT TO BE GOVERNED,AT THIS POINT IN TIME???

-- Posted by Jo on Thu, Sep 23, 2010, at 12:42 PM

The old saying that "all generalities are false, including this one" comes to mind. When I say all politicians are crooks, I should probably rephrase that to all career politicians are crooks. Some may stay totally honest, but I think they would be in the extreme minority. I do think most start out honest, but power tends to corrupt.

-- Posted by Philemon on Thu, Sep 23, 2010, at 7:43 AM

Good stuff now if we can elect people who will actually follow through.

http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/0...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Sep 23, 2010, at 7:09 AM

I have made my judement on Blunt and others by watching them perform! I make my call and then check them out with everything i can find on them, to conferm my judgment. I haven't done bad yet!I will agree that there not all crooks,but most are complisit when they all vote no on important issue's, hanging togather in other words. And not just one Party! Obama has listened to his advisors to the point he's getting to be one in the same! I do exspct something drastic to happen soon! Maybe i'm wrong , but i don't think so!

-- Posted by Jo on Wed, Sep 22, 2010, at 5:34 PM

slater - no i didn't see any of that ... sorry.

rr3 - he may or may not have been - depends on who you ask - but he was certainly a mover and shaker and served the people well.

my question had to do with the constant lumping together of all elected officials as bad, corrupt, crooked, self-serving, etc.

i'm not all that sure that the good ones get enough press - and i am positive that the bad ones seem monopolize the gaze of the media.

so - are they all bad or are there some who really care and want to do what's right by there constituents?

just wonderin'

zeke

-- Posted by zeke on Wed, Sep 22, 2010, at 1:20 PM

Zeke - did you watch any of the BBC tv series, Yes (Prime) Minister?

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Sep 22, 2010, at 12:26 PM

Zeke

Was Jesus a politician?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Sep 22, 2010, at 11:48 AM

phi - jo - et al

is there a difference between a politician and a civil servant?

can someone serve the nation, state, county, city, etc., without being a "politician"?

just wonderin'

zeke

-- Posted by zeke on Wed, Sep 22, 2010, at 8:01 AM

Jo,

You started off making good sense. Nobody should listen to just one source for their information. I think most people do actually listen to more than one source or they wouldn't know what others are saying that they object to. The real trick is choosing which sources to believe.

Conservatives tend to believe Fox, numerous talk radio hosts, Conservative blogs, and other Conservative sources. I can understand counting all that as one source since it is all Conservative. On the other hand, Liberals tend to believe only Liberal sources. There are numerous liberal sources, but just as all Conservative sources can be lumped together as one, so can the Liberals.

Where you lost me in your post was when you said to try to be objective followed by saying that Blunt is a crook because of his face. There may be good reasons for why someone is a crook but just looking at their face isn't really all that objective. I've found that the best crooks usually have the most honest faces. Of course, all I needed to know about Blunt to know that he is a crook is that he is a politician.

-- Posted by Philemon on Wed, Sep 22, 2010, at 7:36 AM

Jo common sense is not a liberal attribute or they wouldn't be liberal. You say common sense is how we find out what is true how does that work? Liberals don't like to believe in a higher power they want to be the higher power and keep the common people dumbed down so they can stay in power. They like people that really don't know what is true or not so they will believe anything. How does common sense tell you what is right and wrong? If we don't believe in something we will believe in anything.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Sep 22, 2010, at 5:51 AM

I've always wondered there is a couple of people on this blog that seems to be hard nosed Conservative that seems to get their information from a single source, or at last that the way i get it! I wonder if you are going at it with any objectivity on Politic at all? For the last Year i have been looking at Politic in general. I was in some of the protest back in the 60s the war& some of the pickers fight in California. It always, (to me) was based on just, right and wrong!To me it's the same with Politic & Politicians.So far it's Liberal's out ahead. It just makes sense we must take the well being of our own Country first! So far i haven't seen that in any thing i've read about the Republican Ideology! It's been just a play on words, and misstatements,on both sides! It has be come nothing but a side show,nothing that will benefit Americans.The far out is going too take over if the People don't see through all this and get the true information about thing! The only way i see to do that is get your information from every source you can fine,and even then use your common sense as too whats right for everyone! Try to be Objective,I won't get stuck with all this rhetoric anymore! And an obvious example of a crook is Blunt,you can just see in his face,(in my opinion), many, many, others? Im just making an observation of all this craziness! We can do better then this??

-- Posted by Jo on Tue, Sep 21, 2010, at 10:44 PM

The SEIU and Its 'Extreme' Election Shenanigans

http://www.redstate.com/laborunionreport...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Sep 21, 2010, at 5:38 AM

only one answer for the problems in washington and most state houses - and it's a four letter word at that -

VOTE

VOTE

VOTE

VOTE

VOTE

VOTE

zeke

-- Posted by zeke on Mon, Sep 20, 2010, at 11:59 AM

Got to love the leftist greenie wacko that held up Discovery Channel in DC, or whatever channel it was... but the media did not jump on that story as a leftist terrorist either...

Wheres the list of people from the left, like tree hugging PETA people, and wacko environmentalists and the angry Bush haters that need to be on a national watch list?

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Sep 20, 2010, at 12:42 AM

http://www.newsrealblog.com/2010/09/15/t...

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Sep 20, 2010, at 12:39 AM

Something interesting.. the guy that tried wanted to Stab Gov. Nixon and stabbed the College Chancellor is a leftist wacko, mad at the government, mad at Bush, mad at christians but standing up for Islam...

Now it also sounds like he was not taking meds or they were not functioning as intended....

So the point is not really to accuse him of being a leftist radical, but to say that individuals in American can just go beserk for many reasons.

But the interesting fact is that the national media has not picked up the story of a left leaning whacko (At least according to his rants on facebook and to other people) but they every time someone does something like the guy in Tex that crashed into the IRS building or the failed car bomb in times square and Mayor Bloomberg instantly stated it was a right wing radical, and the media jumps on stories every time they think it points to how the politically right people are all radicals and home grown terrorist and redneck racists.... who says there is no bias in the main stream media?

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Sep 20, 2010, at 12:38 AM

Lets put it this way. "A wolf in sheeps clothing"

I view Islam in this manner. They claim loudly that they are a religion of peace and that the rest of the world and all other religions MUST be tolerant of them. YET they are not tolerant of any other religion except superficially. They preach that all non-Muslims must convert or be destroyed in many Mosques. They are not open with where their money gets sent overseas and much of it has gone and is going to nations that support terrorism or at the least ignore the activities of terrorists within their borders granting them asylum. And since there has been and currently are terrorist cells within our borders then national security deems it appropriate that we remain skeptical of Muslims.

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Sep 20, 2010, at 12:28 AM

I think we should be tolerant of people, HOWEVER, I think that common sense and healthy skepticism should also be exercised.

Here are just a few links to attacks by MUSLIMS against CHRISTIANS, just in 2010. These dont even touch the reality of how many attacks of violence are conducted against Christians around the world by muslims.

Because of the severe secrecy of Muslims and their financial network that branches out to EVERY Mosque and group of Muslims all around the world and where the money goes and what they use it to fund should be investigated fully and honestly. If a denomination of protestant christians had even a remote link to a terror type group of, oh lets say a militia, then the government would down their throats, investigating their every financial move and the left would be saying once again that christians are just radical wackos. Because of the amount of evidence that there are muslim terrorist cells in the US and other western nations and funding from mosques has and is going to terror networks or nations supporting terrorism, then we MUST be skeptical and cautious and stop funds from leaving the US to finance terror activities.....

probably rambled and used horrible grammar because I am at work and am getting interupted..

http://www.worthynews.com/8499-eight-chr...

http://www.catholicculture.org/news/head...

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

http://www.christianpost.com/article/201...

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/09/misund...

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/p...

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Sep 20, 2010, at 12:21 AM

Government Policies Pushing Towards Depression

It becomes increasingly clear that a continuation of the current Administration's policies will push America into a depression.

http://www.capitalismmagazine.com/market...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Sep 19, 2010, at 9:31 PM

Why has the liberal/left formed a "gentlemen's agreement" alliance with Islam?

A Nexus of Nihilism

http://www.capitalismmagazine.com/islami...

Burning the First Amendment for The Muslim Cult of Sharia

http://www.capitalismmagazine.com/islami...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Sep 19, 2010, at 9:29 PM

I agree Jo get out and vote. If you can't vote on election day the court house is open the Saturday before the election or if you call far enough ahead of time they will mail you a ballot. Just call the County Clerk and they make the voting process easy so there is no excuse for not exercising your right to vote.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Sep 19, 2010, at 7:00 PM

Does anyone have an Opinion on, term limit, Flat Tax , our Voting System & how they can misrepresent & flat out lie's about other Candidate's? Why they don't use the law's on the books to correct these thing? Or bring back, the slapping of the face with the Glove thing (Dulling) I don't want to hear. (Thats the way it's alway been!) With my trying to keep up with Politic,the more i see,nothing but a bunch of cowardly thugs looking to make their own fortune! They have no desire to help this Country in any way! I keep thinking to vote is the way to turn this system around! But now i'm leaning back toward the 60s and Revolution! But i will vote until that occurs. ha Lets all keep voting, make this a priority Regardless of who the hell we vote for! VOTE VOTE VOTE?

-- Posted by Jo on Sun, Sep 19, 2010, at 4:13 PM

True wtf the writers of the Bible are dead but the God that inspired it is alive and well. The writers physical bodies are dead but their spirits are alive eternally with Christ as we speak. It doesn't make sense how a religion can worship a dead God or man. A good example is the Catholics that pray to Mary she is dead she can't do anything for them. It is idol worship and is not biblical. Jesus Christ is the only way.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Sep 17, 2010, at 12:40 PM

So, one was done by an executive, the other by a committee? ;) I am outa here.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Sep 17, 2010, at 12:26 PM

rr3yvo said:

"The Muslim faith rely on a book inspired and written by a man that is dead"

Technically speaking, this is one statement that actually applies to every known religion.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Sep 17, 2010, at 6:28 AM

By the way rr3 I also appreciated your comment.

I have nothing against the "Frontline Fellowship". Their name considering their location I did find humorous.

Just a few words to elicit thoughts about where I would have gone with this parody, had I the time.

Elohim City, unindicted co-conspirators. Mysterious never located persons near the scene of the blast. Witnesses who saw another person get out of the Ryder truck, Aryan Nation, et al.

Have fun while I am gone. Like Nixon you won't have me to kick around anymore. Well, maybe you will, after all I still kick Nixon around occasionally.;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Sep 16, 2010, at 11:34 AM

Satire JHH, satire. I first thought of spinning it further when I got a reply such as yours...going off into conspiracies, ludicrously overplaying what the right has already done, but I am getting ready to go on vacation, and just don't have the time.

The main purpose was to put the shoe on the other foot, to expose how ridiculous all this "Mooslum" conspiracy is.

Glad I caught your interest.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Sep 16, 2010, at 11:17 AM

The Frontline Fellowship you reference okr seems to be a doctrinally sound church. They mention nothing about Jihad. Read what they believe in the link.

http://www.frontlinechurch.tv/about-us

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Sep 16, 2010, at 2:25 AM

"Christian terrorists" okr you are really grasping at straws on this one. Are to say there are Christian terrorist just the same as Muslim terrorist? Wow what an analogy! If you read the Koran and the Bible you will find there is no comparison. But then I am speaking to someone that has asked God to save us from the righteous??? Really!!! The Koran call Muslims to Jihad as a religious duty. There are Christian sects or individuals that have committed terrorism through wrong teaching by a cult or misinterpretation of the Bible. The Muslim faith rely on a book inspired and written by a man that is dead. The Christian believes in a God that saves us from sin and is a living God. There is no camparison!!! Okr I thought you didn't like to discuss religion but you keep bringing it up. Hmmmmmmmm! I just pray okr that God saves you from your sin not the righteous.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Sep 16, 2010, at 2:18 AM

Christian terrorists blew up a whole bunch of people including babies, and little children here in Oklahoma City.

It disgusts me that the scene of that dark deed is today literally surrounded by Christian churchs. I know, I know, you are all going to say that you can't blame Christianity or Christians as a whole for the act of a few Christian terrorists. By Golly why not? At least if not illegal, it is offensive, and in bad taste to build or rebuild Christian churches so close to the site of Christian terrorism. It strikes me as particularly offensive that some weird church called Frontline Fellowship has set up near by. As far as I can tell they are not affiliated with any denomination so we really can't know what they maybe scheming can we?

I am just wondering if you who have stood so tall in condemning that Muslim religious structure near ground zero in New York City, won't join me now in condemning the situation here in Oklahoma City?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Sep 16, 2010, at 12:00 AM

rr3yvo--You made an excellent argument for the Islamic Cultural Center's right to build their center anywhere they deem appropriate. These same fallen soldiers fought for all of us no matter what God we believe in, or not believe in. We are making a mockery of our Constitution if "some are more equal than others", when it comes to Rights or Freedom.

-- Posted by izaak on Wed, Sep 15, 2010, at 9:32 PM

Fly your POW-MIA flag below the American flag on Friday Sept 17 for POW-MIA REMEMBRANCE DAY. Did they name that one right Nana.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Sep 15, 2010, at 11:05 AM

okr

agreed

here in western missouri there are a few long-standing "cliques" that could stand to be broken up.

thanks for the response.

zeke

-- Posted by zeke on Wed, Sep 15, 2010, at 8:27 AM

:)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Sep 14, 2010, at 11:57 PM

God save us from the righteous.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Sep 14, 2010, at 11:50 PM

The air is fouled, ants crawl over my bare foot. Dare I move a toe?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Sep 14, 2010, at 11:28 PM

You know Nanadot I just came from a business meeting of an Association of churches and by your post I could have swore that you were there. You know you're right it doesn't matter if we fly our flag at half staff for Patriot Day or not. It doesn't matter if we remember Pearl Harbor or not. It doesn't matter if you or I are more patriotic then the other. Maybe it should be 9/11 Remembrance Day I don't really care. Just like the meeting of churches there are always one or two that keep bringing something up that doesn't mean squat to the whole scheme of things. You remind me of one of those people because these things don't really matter. If you decide not to honor or pay respects to our fallen then that is your decision but you should be thankful to those that died to allow you that freedom. I choose to honor and remember that if it wasn't for them I wouldn't enjoy the freedom I know today. Just like at the church meeting who cares what we call it what does it represent? What is God's will for us to do? I choose to remember that Jesus died for our sins even though you choose not to believe that. Does it really matter that I believe that and you don't? it might!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Sep 14, 2010, at 11:20 PM

Your comment was thought provoking Zeke. When I read it the first thought that crossed my mind was that you have an opportunity to know local candidates better, so it is easier to decide, and in that circumstance party consideration is not a high priority.

Further, there are times in local elections when ruling cliques need to be broken, no matter which party.

Whatcha think?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Sep 14, 2010, at 2:26 PM

okr -

can i assume then that you would carry your disdain for repubs and demos to the local (county and city) levels as well?

are things the same on the local level as they are at the federal level?

and shouldn't independants really fall into the same category as the two major parties?

just a wonderin'

zeke

-- Posted by zeke on Tue, Sep 14, 2010, at 12:17 PM

Feds Spent $800,000 of Economic Stimulus on African Genital-Washing Program

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/75198

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Sep 14, 2010, at 11:16 AM

You can say no to business as usual by Democrats, and Republicans in this election.

Regarding the Missouri race for the U.S. Senate; instead of voting for Carnahan the Democrat, or Blunt the Republican, make another choice. Try Jonathan Dine, Libertarian, or Jerry Beck, Constitution Party.

Concerning the 4th District Congressional race, say no to Democrat Ike Skelton, say no to Republican Vicky Hartzler. Instead choose either Jason Michael Braun a Libertarian, or Greg Cowan of the Constitution Party.

The important thing is to let the two majority parties know that we mean business. If you really are unhappy about what has happened in Congress for years, and years, and I believe most of us are, this is your best shot.

To get out of the box that we are in, we must first think outside the box.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Sep 14, 2010, at 1:08 AM

Neoliberal, neoconservative, neofascist, I am sick of all the neos.

Where the heck are the oldstyle Republicans, and Democrats? You remember those guys, you know, the ones in congress that worked together across party lines to make America a better place for its citizens.

My thought is that a lot of them, Dems, and Repubs, left congress frustrated, and depressed because they had to spend all their time begging for money, instead of doing the people's business.

Others just got old and were replaced by neo one thing, or another. It has been a long time (Pre-Reagan) since oldstyle held sway.

I am of the opinion that if a third party candidate is not also a candidate for the looney bin, that candidate will likely get my vote. Why you say?

Well, it's like this, some of us are angry at the Democrats, some of us are angry at the Republicans. It has dawned on me that maybe, just maybe, that instead of one group being wrong, or both groups being wrong, both groups are right. If that is the case (think about it before you join me on this one) we all need to be angry at all of them; no, we all need to be absolutely outraged at all of them.

So, how do we deliver the message of our outrage?

I can think of nothing better than to vote every d-mn one of them out that is running for election in this cycle, and don't vote for their opponent Dem, or Repub. I believe they would get the message, and positive cooperation would reappear. If not, throw everyone of em out, Repub, and Dem, in the 2012 cycle. By that time we would definitely have a new kind of congress, with no one party able to have their way. the fresh ideas of the reform third party candidates would be part of the equation.

Risky you say? Insane you say? Well I say what could be riskier, or more insane than to vote into majority control either of the two parties that have proved time after time that they can not get it done? I for one am not so masochistic that I will assist either one of them to put the screws to me again.

Look for Libertarian, or Green Party, or any of the other parties. The important thing is to inform Democrats, and Republicans that we are mad as hell, we are on to your take turns, do nothing right game and you are gone.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Sep 14, 2010, at 12:29 AM

Hey! Another 5 hours without a post! What's up???

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Sep 13, 2010, at 8:14 PM

mr.xray,

Democrats ram policy down our throats which uncomfortable to be sure, but not nearly as uncomfortable as where the republicans ram it.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Sep 13, 2010, at 8:20 AM

So, Janet Napolitano and the Liberal whackos, mostly on the West and East Coast are saying that the border is more secure now than ever... That we dont need to secure our border, that we dont need to know who is coming back and forth across the border even after intelligence says there are terrorists crossing along with the drug and human traffickers and that we only want to stop ILLEGAL immigration because we are racist, and Obama is attacking a State law that mimics the Federal law and that illegals are not a problem.

http://www.krgv.com/news/local/story/Mex...

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Sep 13, 2010, at 5:57 AM

Great artical Okalahoma,4 elephents in the room ! Thanks for sharing!

-- Posted by Jo on Mon, Sep 13, 2010, at 5:00 AM

Slater:

First off, the counting of the people below the cutoff of the "poverty level" is a fairly easy number to determine. It is not like accounting for a bill that is not a bill yet or a bill that needs to be passed BEFORE we find out what is in it and then manipulate the cost over and over until the reality comes out.

I was not claiming that the Republican party is the end all, be all party with all the solutions.

I just like to counter the people who claim that somehow the government needs to control more and more of our lives based on THEIR opinion that corporations are evil, more evil than corrupt government politicians from all parties who are slaves to the almighty dollar handouts from often times conflicting sources just so they can stay in power and get re-elected so they can feed their own immoral and unethical persons. Just look at the three Congress people in the Black Caucus that got caught giving away scholarship money to family members when their own rule stipulated that they could not do this and then see how they try to justify it by saying the rules changed, but they did not. Or the Charlie Rangles or any of the politicians in power that abuse it.

Nanadot and News and those like them blame evil corporations and Capitalism. People on the Right blame big government and socialist practices. Of course News just deals in a theoretical world... lol

But if you get down to it Corporations are only made up of individuals and our economy is made up of individuals and our politicians are made up of individuals. So is it these entities that are some how evil and bad and keeping people poor? Not really, it is society and its lack of demanding that people be virtuous, its lack of demanding personal responsibility, its selfish individualism, its "I want instant gratification", its "I want it on a silver platter or I need to blame someone else" attitudes.

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Sep 13, 2010, at 12:10 AM

And here is one with something for honest people of the left, and the right. I doubt there is a one of the regular posters on this blog that does not agree with at least a part of it. The main thrust is bashing neoliberals whom I happen to believe are one of the scourges that is ruining America. That's right, that's what I said, neoliberals have played, and continue to play a large part in the decline of the welfare of the people. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Sep 12, 2010, at 11:02 PM

"Four Elephants in the Living Room".

Here is an opinion as to the identity of the four groups that may bring America to ruin.

http://tpjmagazine.us/adams51

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Sep 12, 2010, at 10:16 PM

Right you are, rr3. Thanks for keeping the record straight.

Going along with the love of money I suppose would be the lust for power, like "...power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely..."

It's no wonder we have such a cesspool throughout all levels of government.

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Sep 12, 2010, at 8:14 PM

Slater I am glad that I can be a reference to refer to in your post. Money is not the root of all evil it is the LOVE of money. Along with that comes greed.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Sep 12, 2010, at 7:30 PM

MrXray - Take the government numbers with the grain of salt, since they're illusory and most likely have little reflection on the reality of the issues, unless. of course, one would have an unterior motive for their worth.

You've made some interesting comments of late, most of which I agree with. However, I do need some clarification on your statement that liberals are the cause for people being in poverty because they don't do the right things to help afflicted people work their way out.

What does this say for the conservatives? Are they just uncaring and have turned their backs on people in need, or are they the only group providing the kinds of assistance you refer to? To take rr3's word, the conservatives either do or should abandon the impoverished, since they show no sign of self-help.

I couldn't agree more with your statement that the wrong kinds of efforts are being made to help people move out of the cycle of poverty, but it isn't because no one knows what to do.

The change in the percentage over the past 40 or so years is like the 1-2 percent change in the unemployment rate - almost an anomaly. We can look back on history (much to rr3's dismay) and see how ineffective the efforts have been to cure the ills.

If we're to study the hypothesis that corporatism is the cause for poverty, what would we find? Would we realize that money is truly the root of all that's evil in a capitalist society? I don't know the answer to that, and no one would ever manage a concensus on the question, either way.

If Corporate America has indeed systematically stepped on the throats of the working class, then they haven't stepped with enough force, since people, by and large, have it too good for their own good.

Softies, all of us are. I was just thinking about the Russian guy who says America can't win wars because we don't know how to win. Maybe the public should take lessons from the corporatists and get tough and greedy.

Obama is like the boat whose rudder fell off, and I certainly don't see a suitable replacement from the conservatives waiting in the wings to put it back on.

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Sep 12, 2010, at 5:55 PM

Hmmm under the reigns of Obama and the overwhelming DEMOCRAT majority they have led us to a huge increase in the poverty rate....

it jumped from 13.2% to about 15% in 2009 according to the census. That is about 1 in 7 people. That is after all the TRILLIONS spent on bailouts and entitlements and more and more unemployment benefits that Pelosi said would create jobs somehow.

I know... I know... It is Bush's fault and the Republicans fault... I mean after all the Dems kept telling us how they could just ram policy and legislature down the Americans throats without the Repubs. Oh, and after the Dems caused the Housing crisis that snowballed into the sub-prime disaster that BUSH II warned us about all through the early 2000s... and the Dems berated him for those warning even though the economy was growing so fast based on the FALSE growth in the housing market based on all of the COERCED loans to risky people and the market trading based on those packaged risky loans... Franks, Dodd, Pelosi, even Obama claimed that there was nothing wrong with the economy based of the hyper inflated housing market....

So it IS the Repubs fault if you ignore all of these factors LOL

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Sep 12, 2010, at 9:14 AM

Nanadot: Sort of like the whole honoring of the WWII memorials in Pearl Harbor. I mean those people who died there did not do anything to deserve our honor and rememberence, I mean they were just sitting in a Harbor not actually in combat so why should we honor them or do anything special for those people.

(note: that was sarcasm in case you did not get it)

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Sep 12, 2010, at 9:07 AM

HA HA HA... France, is acknowledging that even THEY cannot support the huge expense of benefits of worker's retirement pensions... so they are upping the age to retire from 60 to 62 and eventually 67.... so what do the UNIONS do in response??? Incite protests against the government.... LOL When Europe is seeing that socialism, spread the wealth, entitlement mentality is unaffordable and adjusting their policies and economies, the US progressives are STILL drooling over their failing economies and unaffordable legacy costs and entitlement programs..

France is just another example of what the US is heading for... Greece, Ireland, France and many other European nations...

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Sep 11, 2010, at 4:08 AM

News... life is NOT fair and NO system will function fairly. You love to speak in economic theoretical terms and attempt to claim that some system or another would be the cure for capitalism..... yet this ignores the real problem with any economic system. Power and money corrupt and with this corruption come unfairness and individual gain at the expense of others.

We have seen it with EVERY economic and political system throughout the history of the world.

This is why it is so funny when people like Nanadot cry and cry and cry about the evils of capitalism..... capitalism is NOT a living breathing system. All faults found in capitalism or any other system can and are found in EVERY type of system. Maybe it would not be the big evil, job creating businesses and corporations taht make money but it would be some person or group of people who were making a profit at the expense of other people.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Sep 11, 2010, at 3:44 AM

Speaking of failing the poor.

every wonder why the poor dont consistently rise above poverty? It is not capitalism. It is not an economic system of any type that causes poverty or keeps people in poverty.

The problem is there is no REAL effort to work with and teach the poor and show them WHY they are poor, nor to teach them how to work their way out of poverty. Instead, the middle class and rich on the left use their wealth to inflict a sense of guilt amongst their own. But they dont use this guilt to spend their OWN money to help the poor. Instead, they try to force the government (Meaning using some one else's money) to provide more and more entitlements. Now is there anything wrong with a short term program to help people with problems within life? No, of course not.

The problem with the "entitlement solution" theory is that you cause people to continue to view life as hopeless, that they have to accept the hand out, and that there is no way to rise above poverty so they are forced, in their minds, to accept the handouts as the only source of additional income or assistance.

This mental conditioning causes a snow ball effect because the poor do not know how to overcome the unfair obstacles in life, nor do they have the education to get a better career with better financial rewards, so over time they become used to the system of government hand outs. And as they have children and grand children, this hopeless mindset is handed down to every generation that comes after only the children and grand children grow up IN the system and do not know any other way.

It is a cycle that is never ending. IF social entitlement programs and hand outs actually WORKED, then we would see a trend of less and less people dependent on the government dole.

The old saying paraphrased; "If you give a man a fish he will eat for a day, if you teach him how to fish he will have food every day" is really a good way to make this point.

In a sad way, we reward people who ARE capable of fending for their selves and doing the hard work with the right direction from mentors or community leaders, for example, and by rewarding them there is not the sense of sink or swim that is needed to provide self motivation to actually DO the hard work required to overcome poverty.

BUT we see examples every day or year of people who worked 3 jobs while going to night school part time so that they could eventually earn a decent living and over come the obstacles within their families and environments that caused their poverty.

Another thing about the entitlement system is that, as we can see with the recession we are in right now, the tax payer funding for entitlement programs increases dramatically during tough economic times nationally and because we are requiring more money to fund entitlements we have less money available to create jobs and hire back people laid off so our nation as a whole suffers.

Life is NOT fair and no amount of laws and regulations will cause life to suddenly be fair. However, if you actually cared about the individuals instead of a 'one size fits all' entitlement program, then we could work people and families at a time to help them actually get out of poverty IF they were willing to work hard and become educated and we taught personal responsibility.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Sep 11, 2010, at 3:39 AM

Ah, Ted Koppel, so good that he was a threat to the Corporatocracy. Does any one watch the revised "NightLine" at all when there are so many other better fluff programs like "Entertainment Tonite"?

I miss Koppel's thorough hold their feet to the fire interviews.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Sep 11, 2010, at 2:15 AM

Fly your flag at half staff tomorrow for Patriot Day.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Sep 10, 2010, at 1:15 PM

Interesting Republican doings as reported by: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnew...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Sep 9, 2010, at 11:47 PM

JHH you guys raising the same old taunts of News Across time after time seems to me to be juvenile, and redundant. Further it does nothing to raise the level of discussion on the blog. In fact I believe it has the opposite effect. All that is just my opinion. I am not saying you can't do it because that isn't my call.

I am asking though, that you give it a break. Thank you for considering my request.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Sep 9, 2010, at 11:40 PM

john henry's hammer

Wiki is not a very good source.

Also, both the USA and Australia have mixed economies...both capitalist and socialist (ie: social security, medicare, ect). However Australia has far more social programs, more safety nets, more regulation of business and banks, and a booming economy.

Also, I emigrated to Oz to be with my wife who is an only child and who wished to remain near her elderly parents...I make no apologies for that and I am proud to be an Australian citizen as well as an American citizen. Get used to it.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Sep 9, 2010, at 11:24 PM

News life is not fair because people are not fair. Any economic system is going to be taken advantage of. Our tax code is supposed to be fair but is it? Everyone pay 10% of their income in taxes no matter what you make that would be fair. Actually a national sales tax would be more fair because the more you buy the more taxes you pay therefore the rich would pay more. Either way it would eliminate the zero liability voter because everyone would pay something in taxes. Then we might have a more concerned voter base because everyone would have a stake in the game.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Sep 9, 2010, at 11:53 AM

JHH

Capitalism is a system that has completely failed the poor. Its a system that only works some of the time and then only for the rich.

Any economic system that does not work for all the people is a failed economic system.

Its time we try something that has not ever been tried in our Nation before...a fair system that works well for everyone equally and benefits all the people...democratic socialism.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Sep 9, 2010, at 8:16 AM

I'm trying figure out what scientifically derived evidence has to do with Democrats and Republicans?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Sep 8, 2010, at 4:53 PM


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