Speak Out [politics] August 2 to September 8, 2010

Weimar Amerika won't last long. http://www.youtube.com/rabbletv#p/a/u/0/...

Jhh I guess I will be patient with your contentious nit picking.

First of all you should have noted no quotation marks on the second sentence which was a declaritive sentence. I did not choose to give the second of a two short sentences statement a seperate paragraph because it shows up with a gap on this blog.

As to who made me the arbiter as to what is patriotic that is easy to answer. No one. It is my opinion which comes from my free will. You may believe that your opinion is on loan from God. That is another opinion.

Is that enough for you regarding this ridiculous exchange?

I only rarely listen to "the Savage Nation" and when I do I find that I sometimes agree but usually end up ticked off about something. I caught a few minutes last night and found a bit he did about his fathers boyhood advice concerning politics to be fairly accurate.

"If a Democrat is President then he is a crook and a liar. The Republicans will tell the country how much of a crook and a liar he is and how honest they will make government when they are elected to replace him. Eventually, a Republican will be elected. He will be a crook and a liar. The Democrats will then tell the country how much of a crook and a liar he is and how honest they will make government when they are elected to replace him. Repeat over and over"

Although I placed that in quotes, it wasn't a direct quote, only repeated from the radio last night to the best of my memory.

News if you were open to the idea then what I and others believe would not be irrational or senseless. Seems that God knew before you were born the you would see the evidence and still not believe. Just like the evidence that Democrats played a major role as to the direction this country is headed but you still don't believe. They have been in charge of Congress for almost 4 years with a majority that the Republicans couldn't stop if they wanted to. What have they done to make things better?

rr3

I was in Marshall yesterday. I looked for ya mate. Yeah I did. I stood around the square for at least an hour but I didn't see ya anywhere mate lol lol lol...

I was hoping to buy you a cup of coffee and engage in a good, healthy debate with you one on one, but alas you were no where to be seen...lol.

As to your claim that I assume there is no God, I have never made any such assumption. In fact, I am very open to the idea. I merely point out that there is no scientific evidence to support the hypothisis of the existance of a God, Goddess, Gods, ghosts, ghoolies, Santa, or the Easter Bunny.

I am not opposed to religion at all. I think religion plays an important role in our society. Religion does help keep many psycopaths from running wild in the streets, relgious charities help feed many of the poor, and religion tends to help foster compassion for our fellow man....all very good things.

JHH

Perhaps you should take your complaints about the Aussies to the Aussies. I really don't care what you think of them, and in fact I would be willing to bet you have never even been there. In addition, I think you would find the Aussies could not care less what your opinion of them is. After all, they are a soverign Nation and the opinion of some obscure yank means nothing to them.

As to my American citizenship, it is not up for debate. My American citizenship is mine for life, cannot be revoked, and remains mine no matter what soil I happen to be standing on. Get used to it.

john henry's hammer

I live in both the United States and Australia.

I am a natural born citizen of the United States (Kansas City, MO), raised in Marshall and Chicago (Illinois). My family goes way back in our American history (at least as early as 1750). I am an American -- pure born and purely bred...American through and through and we Americans do not check our American citizenship (or our rights) at the door when we happen to go to or reside in another nation.

As to Australia and NAZIS, I checked with my resident Australian expert (my wife). She tells me that yes some NAZIS did sneek into Australia after WW2 and United States as well. In addition she accurately points out that in fact many former NAZIS were directly employed by the United States after the war and worked in both the CIA and the NASA program. So it seems the pot is again calling the kettle black.

Finally, Australia has the United States to thank for its founding. Prior to 1787, Great Britain sent their political prisoners to the American Colonies. After the end of our American War of Independence, the Brits sent the prisoners to Australia. In fact you may even be one of the decendents of the many political prisoners the Brits sent to the USA. So again, it seems we have a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

Actually, I was just watching over the weekend with an absolutely straight face all the nonsense that has been attributed to me, you, News, etc... It's amazing what some folks will try to put in other folks' mouths - fortunately, my gag reflex is in working order ;>D

Eight Hundred Twelve comments. The page turned on 2 Aug 2010.

Perhaps, it is time to reboot? Did NA leave his heart in SF?

Organization? You guys peek under any old leaf and see a conspiracy. This one is a product of your own fevered imaginations. I'm just sittin' here at home, mindin' my own business, posting when I feel like it, without regard to anything NanaDot or news across has to say. And as for anything that was deleted, I didn't even see it, so I couldn't very well complain about it, now could I?

News I guess I can take your assumption that God doesn't exist as irrational and makes no sense.

rr3yv0

Your assumption that God exists because mankind speculates on God's existance is part of the "circular logic" typically eminating from religion. It is irrational and makes no sense.

Thanks for the heads up John, I will keep my Armor of God on. Funny how the the ones that don't want to discuss God are always bringing him up just by the mere mention of the name. If there is no God why does it merit discussion? We must remember John unbelievers are unarmed in the battle for truth.

Federal agents that are trained to detect counterfeit money only study the real thing so when they are out in the field they can immediately detect a counterfeit. The same holds true if we study the truth, the Word of God then when we are out in the world we can immediately detect a lie. If you don't know the truth you can be led to believe anything.

General Petraeus says knock off the harassment, and hatred of Muslims, and their religion. It is endangering our troops, and therefore is unpatriotic.

http://www.aolnews.com/surge-desk/articl...

EPA TO ISSUE NEW CLIMATE RULES WITHOUT CONGRESS

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/epa-to-i...

Scroll down and check the post by PSYCHOSIS

Posted on September 5, 2010 at 10:30pm

Are you a Democrat, a Republican, or a Redneck?

Nope, I get to keep mine. God doesn't need it.

Isn't yours Kathy?

Nanodot: Thanks for sharing the Hawkins article!

rr3 you said: "Since we are on the subject of fairness.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Sep 5, 2010, at 9:29 AM "

Now you say you had said nothing about fairness when I replied to that post.

Some may choose to call you a revisionist. Not me, I give you the benefit of the doubt on that one. I think you just don't remember what you say from one comment to the next.

ROTFLMAO.

Thats ok news you don't answer questions either. Especially when confronted with truth.

Remember my talent is on loan from God.

CAPITALISM IS BOSS!!!

Hope you enjoy your trip in this foreign land news.

Some may call a dual citizen a traitor too. But who's listening? That statement ought to let you cut and paste your whole litany of arguments that we have heard before. (yawn)

Good thing your back news, okr and nana have been floundering since you went on vacation.

rr3yv0

It is not OKR's responsibility to make your argument for you. It is not his responsibility to answer your questions. Defending your thesis is your responsibility. State your thesis, defend your thesis, and OKR will rebutt your thesis if he chooses to do so.

rr3yv0

That NAZI didn't admit to anything voluntarily. She didnt admit her lying until she was cornered by her opponent who had the transcripts of her lies. Faced with documented evidence, she had no choice but to admit her statement was not true and intentional.

No way would I vote for a party that regularly lies to me and my fellow American voters as the Republicans have done many, many times and continue to do so now.

THE PARTY OF NO! HAS GOT TO GO!

News she admitted in the article she was wrong if that had been a Democrat you would have given them a pass. Wouldn't you? Go ahead and vote for the enemy then later I can say see I told you so.

Thanks Nan!

Yeah I am still on vacation. I was in Sanfrancisco last week and I had a great time. Sanfrancisco is a great city!!

My journey continues lol...

Republicans Caught Lying Again:

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/09/tale-...

Do we really want to put these folks into power again? Is it ok for Republicans to tell barefaced lies?

This independent voter will be voting straight Democrat ticket. This independent voter was taught to believe lying to gain public office and lying to get partisian legislation passed is just plain wrong.

I know Nanadot will say that the big bad evil corporations are unfair and thus they should be regulated.... oh they are horrible and they are evil and all they want to do is take away all the money from all the rest of the people so that they can live in a mansion and look down on the rest of us and they dont care about their workers and all they want is to pay people as little as they can....

So? Lets say that some corporations do. So what? Dont people have a choice to NOT work there and NOT buy things from them?

Next Nanadot will say that we need more and more and more rules and regulations to take away what that business has earned by providing a good or service that people demand, but who is making the rules and regs and arent the politicians corrupt and the isnt the political game corrupted by the insane amounts of money that float around through the system? So how can you trust the government more than the corporations or the evil job creaters in our nation? It makes no sense.

OKR: Changing the constitution to allow blacks or women to vote was not fairness really. It was about altering a problem with the Constitution/Amendments that caused the GOVERNMENt to infringe on the NATURAL rights of all men/women of all races. Just because they changed the law to let women vote does not mean that all of a sudden life was fair.

Okr you say fairness has been legislated but who determines whether it is fair or not? Whomever that is, is it fair for them to make that determination? No it can't be legislated. Giving women and blacks the right to vote was the right thing to do it didn't matter if it was fair.

Is affirmative action fair? Giving one race an advantage over another is that fair? I don't think so. That's why we have God given inalienable rights as people regardless of our race or political affiliation.

Is freedom of speech fair? When a majority of the news media carry the water for the liberals and bash conservatives and we still have people in this country that listen to them. Is that fair?

Is it fair for me to disagree with you? Now we're getting somewhere.

Wrong Xray. Fairness can, and has been legislated, with considerable success. Otherwise women, and Blacks would not have the right to vote. There are many other examples. You are a bright guy therefore capable of filling in the remaining blanks.

The Vietnam War was a tragic and dismal failure -- if you believe what liberal historians and the media say about it.

But here's the politically incorrect truth: The Vietnam War was in fact the most important -- and successful -- campaign to defeat communism ever waged. Without the sacrifices made and the courage displayed by our military, the world might be a very different place today.

Thomas S. Winter

Editor in Chief, Human Events

Since we are on the subject of fairness.

You're absolutely right xray that life is not fair I tell my kids that all the time. All kids should learn that, and now we are now seeing adults that never were taught that life is not fair. That's why they think the government is the answer to everything. Unfortunately we see examples of this daily. Look at politicians that want to tax the evil rich and they are also RICH! Oh I forgot evil rich politicians don't pay taxes. Thats just no FAIR is it?

Mr. Xray,

Am I to assume that post was directed at me for some reason?

WTF... here is a novel idea...

Scientific fact states that the biological purpose of sex IS in fact to procreate. If we CHOOSE to ignore that fact and if we are unable to control our animal urges for the instant gratification that you get from sex, then we should also be aware and intelligent enough to understand that IF we get pregnant because we did not use birth control correctly, or with an antibiotic, or not at all, then it is not the government's fault, nor society's fault, nor your neighbor's fault that you are pregnant so no one but yourself and your partner should be punished because you cannot control your urges long enough to use protection prior to having a career that is adequate to support children

ALSO: Scientific Fact: Birth defects of a wide range of problems DO happen when you procreate. The Union of genes from one partner to another is not perfect and diseases and other types of problems DO happen when two people create a new life. IF you plan on having a child, then you have to understand, because we are intelligent human beings supposedly, that this IS a risk of pregnancy/birth and that we should be prepared to financially and emotionally deal with this outcome if it happens. IF it happens, then you made the CHOICE to have a child then that human being is your responsibility and you have the privelidge of caring for it for as long as it needs..... again not the fault of the government, nor not the responsibility of the government or your tax paying neighbors.

See the pattern of how life is? It is all about choices, using your common sense and intelligence to fully understand your choices and the outcomes of each option. I can say the same for dropping out of school, choosing to use drugs and alcohol and becoming an addict and any number of situations and choices that humans are involved in.

Life sucks, life is not fair, life is full of obstacles and choices. BUT it is not anyone's responsibility other than our own.

corporate death panels or government death panels? At least you have a choice of using a corporate private type insurance company, if the left has their way, we wont have a choice it will be all government run then we will ALL be forced to sway to the political winds about what they will and will not cover as for treatments, drugs, tests and anything else medical. Pretty soon the government panel/board will just have a check list and if they THINK you have a group of symptoms they will just prescibe a one size fits all treatment plan that any nurse or medic can prescribe for you and doctors will be irrelevant (Sarcasm I HOPE) but in reality the government is already determining that you cannot have some life saving drugs for cancer... they in the process of making all sorts of decisions for you.

I know you dont care....

Seventy one percent of the people still blame Bush for the economic problems. http://thinkprogress.org/2010/09/03/most...

wtf - "Davis" saying that 'they' want health reform that 'makes sense' makes as much sense as turning AIG back over to AIG - all we are gonna get is more corporate death panels, less care at insanely higher costs, and more insurance companies denying people medical care. More gigantic CEO bonuses for denying people medical care. More of the same.

Some folks don't seem to understand that even SOME regular care is better than NONE... which a growing percentage of our citizens are getting - NONE.

wtf - I was grossly exaggerating to make the point. Looks like somebody else took me seriously - and made the point for me... too bad.

"If we're the Party of No, good for us! Saying no to Obamacare means saying yes to health care reform that makes sense. Saying no to insane spending means saying yes to a sensible size of government. Saying no to punitive taxation means saying yes to a tax policy that does not blister you for succeeding or dissuade business and individual entrepreneurship. Saying no to activist judges means saying yes to judges who will obey the Constitution." -Davis

rr3yv0 said,

"Yeah - you're right - what do we need with all those useless old people, orphans, cripples, 'tards - they are a real drain... just cut 'em off and let'em fend for themselves...

Obamacare is on the way to take care of that."

Can you back up that assertion with any facts or are you spouting personal speculation?

Keep in mind some of the bugetary numbers that have you so freaked out is because they are now including the on going cost of Iraq and Afghanistan in those numbers. Something his predecessor would conveniently leave out. Presidant Obama was also left one hell of a mess to clean up, regardless of who's fault it was, it's still a mess. In your infinite wisdom, rr3yv0, what would you do to fix the problems? I really see nothing in the way of help or even good ideas coming from the republicans. Just more demonization and division in the hope to curry votes. I certainly have seen nothing from them that would suggest they really care about the greater good. Simply having a government is an act of socialism so that dog won't really hunt.

It's ok for you to dislike or even hate the president but I truly question your reasons why. Perhaps it's something else, maybe even something subconcious?

rr3yvo, I sure hate to get in the way of yours and NanaDots discussion of slave labor, billionaires, and trillionaires, so I'll say thank you for sharing your view on the interstate highway system. Even though I do not see the benefit to our national security today, I do understand and recognize the value placed on that issue at the time construction began. As to whether or not it could have come about without Big Brother, I guess that is open to debate. Good evening to you.

Still don't know what np means but Nana you are really coming around. I like it CAPITALISM IS BOSS!!!

What the heck does np mean Nana.

Slavery continues today in California

http://www.modbee.com/2009/01/04/552440/...

From a very nice left coast Democratic state!!! How could this go on with Democrats in charge?

Yeah - you're right - what do we need with all those useless old people, orphans, cripples, 'tards - they are a real drain... just cut 'em off and let'em fend for themselves...

Obamacare is on the way to take care of that.

CAPITALISM IS BOSS!@!!!!!! Cheap Labor, cheap materials, cheap STUFF = MORE PROFITS for the billionaires!! YEAH!!

Yeah - you're right - what do we need with all those useless old people, orphans, cripples, 'tards - they are a real drain... just cut 'em off and let'em fend for themselves... if they were right-thinking people, they'd step on the ice flow and relieve society of the burden, like Simpson implied the VietNam vets should do... not take up valuable resources. Yeahh, rr3 - you got it, dude!

Naw = just keep it all for the top 400 billionaires - what do real people need a decent income for anyway?

Hey Nana is that any different then giving people entitlements and enslaving them to the government dole or are you all for that?

Related story:

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/09/fbi-6...

You're slipping rr3. Now you are being questioned from the right. Maybe there is hope for you.

Think the Tea Party is BS?

Then you have got to have one of these!

http://www.zazzle.com/stixx3969

Smart Dog I didn't take anything negative. I would like to see government as a body to help with infrastructure. We couldn't have our current road system without federal government. Our current trends of bailouts tells me if a company is too big to fail then they are too big that should have been an oversight of the government. I think if these companies would have been allowed to go bankrupt then we would probably already be on the upswing out of this mess. There is a demand for cars and it doesn't matter who builds them the demand would have been met and any workers put out of a job temporarily would already be back to work. An example of something the government should have stayed out of. Government spending has put deeper in the depression then if they would have stayed out of it.

We need government control over certain things and sometimes there is a fine line so it will never be perfect. I think when the smoke clears and the government quits meddling then the free market will take over and people will go back to work. I never understood punishing small business and corporations when they put people to work. Do you want a 100 small business and employees paying taxes or would it be better to cut taxes 50% and have 1000 small business and employees paying taxes. 50% less taxes per business or individual but 10 times the business or people paying taxes. According to my math that equals roughly five times the revenue to the government. Thats over simplified but thats what Reagen did and it worked but he or Congress would not control spending. They said wow all this money we got to spend it stupidly. You know B.I.O.B.(blame it on Bush)

Wow Smart Dog that's a first 'somewhat far right' never heard of that one. I would probably have to say government really went on steroids when they implemented the income tax, social security, medicare, medicaid and any other entitlement you can think of. As for right or left why can't we use some common sense and a moral compass that says if we can work then we work for a living and if someone is in need then we help them but let the freeloaders fend for themselves. The federal government cannot police the fraud and waste of the entitlements it would be better left to local government and churches to help those in need. The government doesn't do what they do because they care about us, it is about power and what they can do to convince you to vote for them. It seems those on the left can't see that. We need to start by cutting government. Nana thinks capitalism is all about greed but what about our government they have been taking from us for years but it is never enough. Lets force them to make a budget and stick to it. I never heard the left talk about a budget this year because the Democrats "deemed pass" a budget so they didn't even have to vote on it. So they would not have any guidelines or real spending limits. We need a federal government as an oversight for the power of the states but who can provide oversight for the government? How can you provide oversight for the cookie jar when your hand is in it?

Izak - the whole concept of human digntiy, justice, and fairness is a foreign concept to most corporatists. But OKR is right, too - more working people are figuring out that industrial capitalism is NOT sustainable. Perpetual growth without limits is cancerous. Destruction of the Earth is suicidal.

Unlike some, who worship an inanimate theory of oppression, capitalism is NOT a 'boss'. It is not human, it is an inhuman system with only one goal - profit for stockholders. It's goal is not competition, it is monopoly - total control.

Capitalism can only survive on slavery, or the lowest possible wages - which is why we cannot 'compete' with China's prison labor, and why corporations hate labor - and hate those on whom they depend to DO the labor.

We have twisted society to serve 'The Economy', which is an inhuman, inanimate process totally driven by human greed, instead of several different economies that serve people.

But if we 'made it up', we can unmake this inhumane system - we can remake it, even if it's only in small ways... Buy local, trade local, make your own, locally. :>D

Izaak of course it isn't fair.

It boggles my mind that more people can not see that the root cause of our plummeting economy is that wages are cut, jobs are shipped overseas, then the powers that be scratch their heads, and wonder why the American people aren't buying anything. To me the most important thing is that more of us aren't buying the corporatist B.S. any longer.

Why is it that in America's economic hey day executive wages were "only" twenty times the wage of workers, and the tax rate on the wealthy was three times what it is during our ongoing depression? Is there a connection? Duh.

Capitalism is driven by ever increasing consumption. Take away the masses ability to consume, and we get now. Another Duh! It ain't that complicated.

Of course it screws up things even more when greed is increasingly deregulated resulting in potential consumers being bilked out of any remaining wherewithall to consume.

Good one okr you're really coming around.

Courtesy of youtube, and the Chad Mitchell Trio.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pG6taS9R1...

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Industrial 'agriculture' is as toxic as most other industrial production -

http://www.grist.org/article/food-the-pr...

http://www.grist.org/article/food-Iowa-a...

And just think = we are downriver...

The Earth has limits, even if human greed does not.

OKR - that's worth a repeat...

Found this little gem about 'Big Brother' - makes you wonder what multinational corporation(s) are behind these abuses...

http://www.grist.org/article/food-five-t...

Yeh smart dog I've heard that about Catholics too.

Does God care about politics?

http://www.bpnews.net/BPFirstPerson.asp?...

rr3 this blog is for politics. Please take you fundementalist evangelism to an appropriate blog. Check out Pat Robertson, Creflo Dollar, etc.

They probably have an active blog that would be perfect for you. Fair warning though. You may have to pay God through them to post there.

Nana

5. seem to be against capitalism, yet embrace a facist or socialist govt - Wrong.

Fascism is captitalist-owned governance of slave labor.

Socialism is those who work reap the benefits.

Why do socialist economies always embrace capitalism when given the opportunity. Socialism takes rights and liberties away from the people.

Nana

3. they possess an almost Robin Hood syndrome of taking from the working to give to all others.

Wrong = I want people who actually do the work to get fairly compensated.

Who decides what is fair, government, unions there will always be someone that believes they are not fairly compensated so this is an impossible task just something for the liberals to whine about.

Nana

1. tolerant of ALL religions at any cost, but not of Christianity -

Wrong, I just don't like the Far Right "true believers", Christian or Muslim.

True believers only apply to Christians that believe in the one true God, Muslims don't.

2. extremely liberal to the point of almost no moral compass -

Wrong - just not YOUR moral compass.

God give you a moral compass whether you believe or not but if you reject God your moral compass can point in the wrong direction.

As some troops move out of Iraq, oil companies move in.

Finally we can honestly say mission accomplished. We get their oil. http://blogs.forbes.com/brianwingfield/2...

Any news from News? Wasn't he due for surgery or some such, or maybe he's already here and laughing his arse off...??

Hey OKR, and all - nite - it's late n lightening here... am losing electricity as we spea

ND thankfully we still have a few courageous, and honest folk in congress. Those two are at the top of my list.

Looking back, I wonder what has happened to White Tornado, and AFBrat. Their cogency concerning conservative points of view is missed. I don't recall them hammering the same old cliches taken from radical right radio, and tv over, and over. But then maybe I don't remember it because of my dotage. ;)

What she said. Me too. Is that clear enough? Probably not for those whose minds are so closed that any thing bucking preconceptions simply does not register.

1. tolerant of ALL religions at any cost, but not of Christianity -

Wrong, I just don't like the Far Right "true believers", Christian or Muslim.

2. extremely liberal to the point of almost no moral compass -

Wrong - just not YOUR moral compass.

3. they possess an almost Robin Hood syndrome of taking from the working to give to all others.

Wrong = I want people who actually do the work to get fairly compensated.

4. an almost trance like matra of borrow, borrow, borrow, so we can spend, spend, spend,,,,,,,,

huh? Sustainability, frugality, and simplicity that are based on real limits, not CONSUME MORE.

5. seem to be against capitalism, yet embrace a facist or socialist govt - Wrong.

Fascism is captitalist-owned governance of slave labor.

Socialism is those who work reap the benefits.

6. a belief that the federal govt. is all knowing and powerful, and people are too weak minded to sove the problems themselves

Wrong. Actual Democracy requires ALL of our citizens to take part in our governance.

A Republic elects other people to do the job for you, or whoever pays the most... Or as Ben Franklin said, "Madam, you have a Republic, if you can keep it..."

"Objective reasoning" in religious choices is impossible, as religion is based on geographic and cultural proximity, 'faith' and 'revealed truth', none of which is objective.

By objective reasoning, religion is a human control system for explanation of "ultimate" human purpose, behavioral and social regulation, explanation of the unknown, and power.

The Bible, the Bagvad Gita, the Popul Vu, the Upanishads, the Tanak Torah, the Hopi, the Mohawk, etc. all have valuable insights and lessons. I do not reject the works, just the human belief that ANY of them is 'inerrant'.

Miss Marple - Well said! I do not understand the idolization of Reagan on any level (tripled the size of government, "privatized" everything he could get his hands on, deregulated everything else, and set us up for the current fiscal fiasco..), and the bald-faced lies of Bush II are legendary - and nightmarish. I am NOT impressed with Obama's continuation of Bush II policies, but given the available options, I'd still have to pick Obama.

JO! Good to see you! Hope you, OKR and the other 'old guys' hang around to give us your wit and wisdom for a loooong time to come! ;>D

Izak - I wasn't ignoring you, but I do get tired of the perversion of the language commonly (ab)used on the far right. It is exhausting, and sometimes, it just isn't worth the headache... I do not understand how anyone can believe that one little sub-cult has ALL the answers for EVERYone in the ENTIRE world and is, at the same time, "victimized" by that same entire world.

Mostly I get tired of the constant hate- and fear-mongering, and the denigration of anything positive, generous, community-based, compassionate, caring, or tolerant. Sometimes, I just have to go DO something constructive and positive and giving with others who are not like me, doing the same, to remind myself that it IS possible.

Well said, Miss Marple! I'm no economist by any stretch, but I'm convinced that David Stockman knows what he's talking about.

Miss Marple I guess you haven't heard that Obama is going for the record breaker to be the most destructive president in American history. As for Reagen he was the best president we have had in recent history. I'm really sorry you voted for Obama and still feel that way. All I can say is UNBELIEVABLE!!!

Sorry.

Your very, very cold

JHH

My post was as calmly written as your was rational.

rr3yv0,

What was the question you asked me. I don't remember.

okr thanks for the compliments I think we are getting to you. I think if we get together we need a good bible study and an invitation time for anyone that wants to accept Jesus. Yes you all are qualified it is come as you are. We have nice weather here in Missouri in September and October and would be a good time for a campfire.

Jo don't let the bas**ds grind you down. Stay alive as long as you can. I intend to. I know our society is not one that values the acquired wisdom of the aged, but we still have to try.

Yep, OKR. Liberty Enlightening the World with words of wisdom that should be every bit as inspiring today as they were 125 years ago.

Camping out with Lady Liberty are you Slater? That is certainly more productive than what I just proposed. ;)

Thank you rr3. Perhaps there is hope for you stone hearted, stone headed folk on the right.

I think our next move should be to all get together. I can see you, JHH, and Xray, sitting around a simulated no smoke camp fire with me, NanaDot, and News all holding hands. We could sing a few choruses of Kumbaya, then make the difficult segue to a rollicking version of Onward Christian Scolders. After a camp dinner of tofu with bean sprouts, and raw road kill with a crawly garnish, we could all settle back to commune with nature, each in our own way, whether falling to our knees to pray, dancing around a tree shouting ooom every second beat, or busting a few caps at any varmints whose eyes shine in the beam of a big flash light.

As we adjourned we could share hugs that are manly, but sensitive, but not too sensitive, at least where gender appropriate.

How's that version of "we can all get along" workin' for you?

Naw.

Ha! That's funny, John Henry. Yep, we were had, alright. :)

Thank you John you're right it should read guns and bullets. I used to not like okr's post but now I will look at them as inspiration. Thanks okr.

Let me break it down for you okr

QUALIFICATIONS: You must believe that federal government has failed you, and that it will continue to fail you.

TRUE and always will be

You must believe that God has begun retribution against sinners, and you must be eager to personally execute retribution in his name.

HALF TRUE I will leave it up to God he is capable without me.

You must believe in your heart of hearts that homosexuals are abominations, that AIDS was an early form of God's retribution for their choice to sin.

TRUE sin has consequences.

You must believe that our beautiful country was God's gift to white people, and that he directly guided us in the eradication of the heathens who dwelled in it.

PARTLY TRUE this country is for all people I can't say he guided us because I wasn't there all we have is what is written about it.

You must believe that this Paradise that God gave us is again being overrun by inferior races, and that they must be removed in their entirety by what ever means is necessary.

FALSE

You must believe that our universities, and colleges are propaganda machines for liberals, homosexuals, Jews, and socialists, and that we must return God, and The Holy Bible to the class room.

DEFINITELY TRUE

You must know that the mass media is a propaganda machine for communists, socialists, and Godless deviants, and that it must be ignored.

TRUE probably 80-90% of it.

You must exclusively get your news from Fox News, and clear seeing pundits including Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, and Pat Robertson.

FALSE

You must believe that you are a true patriot, and that only those who are Christians can save our country from the Devil's mischief which temporarily has the upper hand.

TRUE

You must believe that only Christians can effectively participate in the return of our nation to its lost values.

TRUE

You must store as many guns as possible in case they are needed.

DEFINITELY TRUE

Thanks okr for all the help some very good points.

John Henry, I posted what I found on the Internet, which was that someone has determined that the Washington quote you misquoted is nowhere to be found in recorded history of Washington's quotations or speeches or any other utterances.

Do I care if he said it? No.

Do I care about the accuracy of someone's report that he didn't say it? No.

Do I care if he EVER made any notable statements? No.

Do I care what your opinion is of me? Absolutely not.

UNCLE SHAM WANTS YOU!

QUALIFICATIONS: You must believe that federal government has failed you, and that it will continue to fail you.

You must believe that God has begun retribution against sinners, and you must be eager to personally execute retribution in his name.

You must believe in your heart of hearts that homosexuals are abominations, that AIDS was an early form of God's retribution for their choice to sin.

You must believe that our beautiful country was God's gift to white people, and that he directly guided us in the eradication of the heathens who dwelled in it.

You must believe that this Paradise that God gave us is again being overrun by inferior races, and that they must be removed in their entirety by what ever means is necessary.

You must believe that our universities, and colleges are propaganda machines for liberals, homosexuals, Jews, and socialists, and that we must return God, and The Holy Bible to the class room.

You must know that the mass media is a propaganda machine for communists, socialists, and Godless deviants, and that it must be ignored.

You must exclusively get your news from Fox News, and clear seeing pundits including Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, and Pat Robertson.

You must believe that you are a true patriot, and that only those who are Christians can save our country from the Devil's mischief which temporarily has the upper hand.

You must believe that only Christians can effectively participate in the return of our nation to its lost values.

You must store as many guns as possible in case they are needed.

THIS IS SATIRE. It is not intended to, nor does it, depict any semblance of rationality in its faux message.

Actually, John Henry, there's no evidence in recorded history that Washington made that statement about God and the Bible.

What I think is interesting was his belief that a supreme being had to create the universe since there was no proof that nature did it.

NanaDot- Refer your post on fascism. We now have our scapegoats to hate and fear, Muslims and gays, now all we need is enough fear to give up our freedoms, magically we end up wrapping ourselves in the flag and Christian crusading-fascism.

Studies Prove

http://www.capitalismmagazine.com/scienc...

http://www.capitalismmagazine.com/scienc...

Usually they proves what they want them to prove not true facts.

John Sharpton wants to claim that Glenn was trying to derail the memory of MLK because Glenn was holding his rally at the sight and on the anniversary of MLK speech. Glenn's rally wasn't even political but the left is trying to make it so.

Quote of the day:

"To be gratuitously nasty in public discourse is like relieving yourself in a swimming pool. Even if nobody knows you did it, you still made the pool a dirtier place for everybody--yourself included."

--Terry Teachout, www.artsjournal.com/aboutlastnight/2010/...

Mrxray are you inferring that the oil deal in Iraq garnered by Halliburton raises no questions as to it being a back room deal?

In my opinion much done in government, and corporations is accomplished by back room deal. Always has been. It is an integral aspect of human social interaction.

If you are just asking for the details on the Halliburton deal look em up. Your mouse is as good as mine. If you do please share. I was just raising the question which to me seemed obvious. Frankly, I think it is likely you share my opinion.

Thousands Turn Out for Glenn Beck Rally as Civil Rights Leaders Protest Event

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/08/...

I wonder if the same ones speaking out for the mosque in NY are the ones protesting would be interesting to know. I think Dr. King would be more honored about the Restoring Honor Rally then the protest.

Glenn Beck's Restoring Honor Rally by the Lincoln Memorial in Washington, D.C.

http://www.foxnews.com/slideshow/us/2010...

http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/0...

Who is really dividing the people? If the people weren't divided what good would Sharpton be? He has to divide the people to remain effective.

OKR: so any other company except Haliburton should have been given the contracts? do you know the specifics of the contract and the bidding process and the competions bids?

xray another fine example of the incompetence of our government to spend money. These projects should be handled by state and local governments not federal. Seems the government incompetence spreads to everything it touches but some are convinced they need to run our lives because we are too stupid to do it ourselves.

Obama spending... in 20 months Obama has increased the US deficit by 4 trillion almost.. Bush only increased it by 4 trillion over 8 years..... read more about the cost of war versus cost of Obama, cost of medicare etc

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinio...

rr3 you said: "Wow John that was like hitting the easy button. All we can do is pray when someone's heart is that hard."

"The recent post on here should tell us that there is a lot of people out there that needs to hear about Jesus."

Firstly, I believe you are confused. How can a bleeding heart, and a hard heart be in the same person? Nana Dot is definitely a progressive populist, a bleeding heart by your standards.

Secondly I don't want to hear about Jesus, especially from you. So please take your evangelizing back to a street corner. At least there one can walk in another direction.

Thirdly your pomposity regarding religion is tiresome. I am joining NanaDot in not having anything to say to you. With one exception that is. If you post misinformation on this blog I will expose it.

Remember the 'wonderful" 'stimulus' program from the Obama program that was to weatherize homes? LOL Stupid typical Government MESS..... what a waste and what a ignorant bunch we have in the white house and Congress

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/arti...

America, the Odd Man Out

Every dollar of government spending sucks between one and three dollars from the wealth-creating private sector.

Some have the absurd notion the government achieves a 3:1 multiplier effect but sensible economist suspect the opposite is true.

http://www.capitalismmagazine.com/world/...

Wow John that was like hitting the easy button. All we can do is pray when someone's heart is that hard.

rr3 & JHH - Was my grandmother a Christian? Born, bred, dunked, and twice on Sunday ... I have been hammered by Bible-thumpers for most of my life, been threatened with Hellfire since I was a small child, and consigned to the Fiery Pit ever since I asked "why?" the first time... And don't make the mistake of pitying me or any of that other garbage. My grandmother's terror was just the last straw in a very large bale of such 'wonderful' experiences. If THAT is what the world is heading for, I want off.

"The idea that there is Islamophobia in America and an anti-Muslim backlash is a huge myth. We are a very nice and tolerant people. But if you read the pages of the NY Times or watch various television news reports, you'll hear much more bigotry toward anyone who is a Christian." -Urbanski

The Leftist Tailspin

When in doubt, threaten to murder them.

http://www.redstate.com/tabithahale/2010...

Glad to hear it Slater.

Sounds like things are going pretty good there for you okr.

One more.

Forthcoming dilemma for progressives. Whether to support a Christian conservative Republican who has seen the light, and gone green, based on the believe that it is mandatory for Christians to fully engage in exemplary stewardship of God's earth, or a Democrat who supports Agribusiness over the environment.

Ah come on guys, bury the hatchet, you are both good guys.

After, to some degree participating in, but, largely observing the current perfect storm of mixed politics, and religion on the blog, I feel compelled to tout the benefits of Oklahoma to the righteous, and right wing group waving the the banners of Christendom, and Conservatism. How's that complex sentence workin for ya?

Firstly, and probably most important to those to whom I am spreading the Good News, Oklahoma is well on the way to becoming the first state in the nation to be a genuine theocracy. Our legislature (I use the word our very loosely) is dominated by Republican Christians who put their God in front of every public statement that they make, and in the forefront of every legislative execution. They have such numerical superiority that they slam dunk in the face of a Southern Baptist, conservative Democrat Governor who occasionally exhibits the temerity to veto one of their God ordained bills. Never mind that he patiently explains that he is vetoing such business because it will not even pass muster at the conservative SCOTUS, and the state is too broke to spend money on lost causes. Slam, veto, "it is God's will". Onward Christian soldiers, we are marching because it is war.

The next U.S. Representative from my District most assuredly will be a Republican whose work record is that he has spent the last fifteen years as the head of the largest summer youth church camp in the state. Southern Baptist of course. Accentuating how God driven are the voters in Oklahoma is that in the Republican primary run off he got a landslide victory against get this, an ex-state legislator who is everybody agrees, a conservative christian, and who volunteered for Iraq duty, while there winning the Bronze Star. Snuggled up to God, 1; Just close to God war hero, 0. Yeh, he faces a Democratic opponent in the general election, some sucker who is well spoken, an attorney, a family man. He is probably right with God in most folks eyes, but not all, especially in Oklahoma. Seven years a marine. Hasn't got a chance. But wait, the political piece de resistance, our two United States Senators James Inhofe, and Tom Coburn. Their notoriety is such that I need not say more. One last tid bit that will make you break in to tears because you don't live here yet. It is the only state in the nation that every county gave a majority to John McCain in the last presidential election.

Another thing that you conservative/christians will love is the fiscal situation, what I mean is tax rate. Among the lowest in the nation, and would you believe that the legislature is continuosly, that is without pause, doling out tax breaks to the oil industry? Talk about trickle down at its purest, wow. Here is the best part, NO TAX INCREASES UNLESS APPROVED BY 70% OF THE PEOPLE. That'll happen when hell freezes over.

I probably should mention some factors within the state's social structure that may be of particular interest to those I am addressing. The sneer factor here is off the charts. If you think you have a bunch of lazy good for nothings up there, you ain't seen nothin. We are at or near number one in teen births, obesity, smoking, illiteracy, and many more. We are doing a good job of getting a handle on it though. I am proud to announce that we have the highest population of women in prison of any state in the nation. We understand the cry of the right, LOCK EM UP!

We have not one, not two, but three dark skinned minorities to get angry about. African- Americans, Hispanics, and Native Americans. That's not counting a lot of Asians, but we don't say much about them because they make such cheap good food, do our nails, give us massages, and generally seem to be hard working.

Then there is the homeless. You will have the rare opportunity to observe them up close all over Oklahoma City. It is an opportunity that you don't expect to run into outside of third world countries. Every day at every major intersection there is at least one, often several, beggars looking for a hand out. What an deal, a chance to get rid of that pent up frustration every mile, or so. Sneer at em, shoot em the bird, even yell profanities, or "get a job".

I know, I know, the first question that comes to your mind is, but why do you, a progressive/populist choose to live there? Most of all family, and the fact that I am old. Our house is nice, and is paid for, yadda, yadda, yadda. Hard to leave. I confess though that I am beginning to have a better understanding of the mindset of the Jews of Warsaw, Poland in the early nineteen forties.

If you are interested, and would like to see more information than is contained in this prospectus please let me know.

THIS IS SATIRE.

Slater I thought you might have been worried about your own status I was just trying to help you out brother.

Nanadot I'm not obsessed with going to heaven I just don't want to go to hell. Do you have to believe that, not at all.

Hi zeke, allow me to offer my view on the upcoming elections: Politicians should not be allowed in politics.

ND - I believe all those people who obsess over Heaven and Hell are worried about their own status. They're usually the ones who insist on telling us how "religious" they are and how the rest of us are headed to hell.

When I hear that kind of talk I immediately think of the Paul Sorvino character, Rev. Williams, in the movie, Oh God.

Sign seen at a rally against illegal immigration:

Illegal immigration is destroying America-look what it did to the White House!

Pure genius!

Why Do Muslims Convert to Christianity?

http://www.siena.org/March-2008/why-do-m...

That's your usual tactic, rr3 - whenever you're cornered you sidestep and try to make excuses.

Evidently you're unable to discern disclaimer from debate language. The statement I made about my belief is in the form of a disclaimer. Nowhere in it did I ask to debate my belief, nor was I debating the belief of any other person.

I've said all I need to say on this topic, and so have you between the two of us. Let's move along to other issues.

You know Slater if you don't want to debate something don't bring it up. You can use the cut and run method of posting if you want. I never said your views were less than religious. Seems like your beating a dead horse here.

I said this to rr3:

"I have no problem accepting your religious views, but I do have a problem with you telling me that my views are less than religious."

As you said to me, my salvation is between God and me, and that's the way I think about your salvation. I don't offer criticism or a critique of the way you or anyone else thinks about religion, and I expect the same consideration in return.

rr3, in its purest form, I believe the Bible is the inspired word of God, as interpreted by the contributors. Nothing proves they've repeated His words verbatim, since we're talking about humans.

I'd question your statement about having a responsibility to offer unsolicited advice about religion to the sinners of the world. I have no problem accepting your religious views, but I do have a problem with you telling me that my views are less than religious.

You share your brand of religion with like-minded individuals and I'll do the same if asked, and we'll both be well off.

Nanadot you are right my responsibility is not to you it is to God. There's people that deny God all their life and accept him at the last minute of their life. We don't know if we will be given that last chance though.

looks like maybe there should be a dedicated "Religion" Speak Out much like the "POLITICS" Speak Out.

but then there would probably be a lot of political talk on the religion side.

oh bother ...

anyone looking into the elections that will effect you locally - senate, reps, etc?

we share some of the same folks with you - Ike and others. interested in the senate race as well.

zeke

pardon me - that should properly have been "right wing Wahabi Sharia" - you know - like Saudi Arabia...

rr3yv0

You say, "...I know where I'm going. Not a criticism, just a fact."

It is not a fact. It is an assumption based on nothing more than some myth your parents and preacher told you were real stories.

If you had been raised in China, you would be a Buddist.

If you had been raised in India, you would be a Hindu.

If you had been raised in Saudi Arabia, you would be a Muslim.

You bought all that nonsense when you were a child because of a thing in psycology known as "Life Scripting."

You don't know if you will even survive death...you have no facts...you have only the assurances of authority figures who also have no facts and believe that nonsense for the same reason you do -- their parents and preacher taught them.

Nanadot I never said anything about being a minority. Again you have me confused with someone else. So I don't have any idea what you are referring to or what news is praising you for.

NanaDot

Nice smackdown Nan,

...well said.

"Army: Soldiers formed 'kill team' to randomly execute Afghans [non-combatant, civillians]"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/0825/sol...

I guess a warmonger would regard this as the "winning of hearts and minds."

So Slater do you believe the bible is the true inspired word of God? Satan wants us to believe that some of the literal interpretation of the bible is lost through translation. Those that study the original language of the bible don't believe that.

My question is do you believe the whole bible as written? You say you were saved at age 12 are you completely saved? My point is can someone be a little bit pregnant?

I'm not questioning your salvation that is between you and God I agree. Just seems to me you are questioning the bible. If you are that brings other things to question.

You know Miss Marple and Nanadot if you would offer something besides criticism then maybe we could talk about it.

Amen, NanaDot. This has devolved into a forum for about five people, two of whom continually pound the drum on the same tired subjects. False victimhood - excellent description! ^5

JHH said: "As you can see on this forum, a Christian is a minority, or at least their voice is the minority,..." What kind of fake victimhood IS this? I mean, REALLY, we ought to just rename the whole political forum Y'alls Proselytizing Forum - you have a 5 to 1 post rate on virtually EVERY body, which is why so few of us even bother any more... horse puckey.

"Cops: NYC cabbie is asked if he's Muslim, stabbed"

How much ya wanna bet the bad guy in this story is a good Christian boy?

hey - rr3 - i'm with you - but get your bible right.

jesus isn't standing at the door of our hearts in that scripture - he's standing at the door of the church - and having a hard time getting in.

just a thought ...

but please continue.

zeke

rr3...

yeah but what if you are wrong and the voodo priests are correct?

What if you are wrong and the great Juju is the real God?

Since they are all supported by nothing, they all are potentially correct and equally potentially wrong, how do you know your's is the correct one?

So with not one shread of evidence to tell you which one is correct...then how do you know you are not dooming yourself to an eternity of pain and suffering even now as you read this?

How do you know?

The fact is you have no objective way of knowing which is correct and whether or not you are on your way to hell. So given that fact, I find it ironic that you can suggest that I am the one who has something to worry about while you are "insured" by your belief which may be all wrong because the fact is you have no idea if you are right or wrong.

There is only one true God and he sacrificed his son to save all of us. All we have to do is accept him. I could go into more detail news but for you it would probably be an exercise in futility unless you're ready.

News the way I see it God is real whether you believe or not. So if I am wrong news when we die thats it we rot. Thats what you believe right? If I am right then I have the promise of eternal life in heaven and you would go to hell. This life is short compared to eternity so is it worth it to be wrong? I think I will stick with the promise of eternal life because after you're dead it is too late to change your mind.

Seems like a vicious circle.

"So, if Saudi Prince Alwaleed bin Talal funds terrorists and is a large shareholder of NewsCorp and NewsCorp funds the Republican Party, then the Republican Party is funded by the same money that funds terrorists" blogger comment

And YOU are related to all of the evil Liberals HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHA!!!

"We are all related"...

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/20...

Philemon thank you and good post by the way but the Rush quotes are just to get them going they are so predictable you know.

News,

Also, where I tend to agree with you is that your ideas might be the best solution in a perfect world, but unfortunatly, we don't live there and I doubt we ever will.

For example, I'm all for there being no nukes in the world, but I don't see it ever happening and don't even think it is a good idea for us to lead the way. When nukes were first invented, the one to have them first was the obvious winner. If eliminated, the last to get rid of them would be the obvious winner. It's the old Mexican standoff problem.

Also, socialism may well be the perfect system in a perfect world. A world where everyone has all their needs met and everyone does their fair part in making the system work. I just don't see human nature working that way in a large enough percentage of the population to be viable. On a side note, I find it kind of ironic that such a proponent of the Theory of Evolution is so anti-capitalist. Isn't capitalism at its root a survival of the fittest?

News you don't understand if we have a city laying in radioactive ruins means someone has attacked us. We will never rid the world of nukes so that means we need to have the most so nobody dares mess with us. How do you defeat a bully news? Appease him? Talk to him? Apologize to him? No you defeat him where he will never stand up to you again. Why do you think we have the mosque controversy, Iran threatening us because Obama has emboldened them by making us look like a bunch of sissies that we are weak and they encroach onto our territory. I don't think you and the rest of the liberals will wake up until we do have a city or cities laying in radioactive ruin. Then will you get mad enough to do something about it. The attack of 911 happened because of the appeasement of the left whether you want to admit it or not. They tied the hands of our intelligence and our military so we wouldn't make anybody mad. The wars we are in could end a lot sooner if we would loose our military to do their job and achieve victory. You want to end the wars news withdrawal without victory is not the answer. Give our military everything they need and give them a goal to achieve then you could put a timetable on it and the mission would be accomplished. Get the mamby pamby liberals out of the way. The only way to defeat the enemy is VICTORY!!!

News did you ever have a bully bug when you were young. He just kept bugging you making you mad but you did nothing so he kept bugging and bugging you and bugging you. Get the picture, I had a bully like that and everyone told me you need to stand up to him then he will stop. For a long time I didn't believe them. But one day I had enough and I stood up to him and we fought I don't think either one of us won but after that we were friends and no more bullying. He got the message. No different with world bullies we need to stand up to them and if they don't get the message then we defeat them that's how its done news. Thats how we can achieve VICTORY!!!

The Unbalanced Load

It's not good the public sector gets bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger because they really don't produce or make anything, and everything that's used to pay them has to first be produced and then taxed in the private sector.

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/s...

jhh

Yes I am a pacifist and yss I believe in peace.

Me and Jesus make no appologies for supporting only peace and opposing all violence.

As to WWII, again, we didn't enter the war until 1 of the Axis Powers attacked us (Japan) and another declared war on us (Germany).

It is true that the Democrats definately wanted to enter the war early on in 1939. However conservatives strongly opposed our entry into WWII and the Republicans obstructed every effort that was made by the Democrats to get us into the war in support of our Allies. When we were attacked by the Japanese and had war declared on us by Germany, Republicans had no choice but to drop their obstructionism and we then declared war on the Axis Powers.

"If, God forbid, the day comes when an American city is lying in radioactive ruins, nobody's going to care what the complexion of the president was or how he could speak. They'll want to know what the hell happened and how did these people leave us defenseless." -Dr. Sowell

News regardless of what you think Fox News is still #1 in NEWS. Do you really believe your so called real news organizations don't donate money to whom they want to influence and pick and choose what they want to publish or broadcast or are they really fair and balanced? I don't think you are that naive are you?

JHH you said, "Three times the mosque near Columbia has been raided by the FBI for funneling money to terrorists. Do you think it doesn't happen?" I believe I was very clear in my response which established that no, it did not happen.

Once again I have no idea where you got your information that led to your statement that is quoted above. It certainly was not in any link that you have posted thus far that relates to your comments on the subject. By the way you are also in error when you state that I did not read links that you posted. I did, as well as other information on the subject. Have you been bitten by the assumption bug?

Someone, the author of the missing link that is apparently the source of your statement apparently perverted the real story, and unfortunately you ran with it. It happens. However, the author of that misinformation is nothing but a Gossip. Unfortunately gossip is rampant on the internet, and deserves the same response as verbal gossip. Ridicule, disrespect, and exposure of a Gossip is the appropriate response, whether in a village, or on the internet.

Some may say "that is a harsh response, they didn't mean any harm", but gossip at times is malignant,and has tragic ends. It at no time has a positive effect. It behooves people of good character to disparage it, to punish it.

In the case at hand the idle statement by some at best stupid person has harmed every innocent Muslim citizen in Columbia, no in America. They are my fellow citizens, and I have got their back. If the fellow citizens of the Jews in Germany had adopted that attitude we would have avoided the holicaust. No real American patriot will allow the besmirching of the reputation of any class, or group of people because of the acts of a few that happen to be members of that group. It even goes deeper than that when one considers the admonition, you are your brother's keeper.

Now, I am through with the subject. Do not expect a response should you address this comment.

Fox News Channel

#1 in News

We report. You decide.

"Watchdog devises way for Fox to 'report' news it 'skipped'"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/0823/wat...

After all the fussin that has been goin on I thought this might be a good time to post a link that most of us who post here right, or left will agree with, at least in part. I think Joe Bageant may be the best writer in America to get us to see beyond our differences, and to unite us in our real needs. Enjoy.

http://www.joebageant.com/joe/2010/08/un...

Oh and JHH...

...When you called me "sorry" you were both incorrect and you were signalling that you had lost you could no longer defend your thesis.

The rules of debate prohibit personal attacks.

When you stop defending your argument and cross the line to personally insulting your opponent...it is clear that you have no argument left to make.

john henry's hammer

Freedom of Independence?

Well if you support the brutal invasion and brutal occupation of 3rd World countries (over 1 million innocent Iraqi civillians have been killed by American munitions...so far) that pose no direct National security threat to the United States then you sure are not supporting their freedom or their independence.

In addition, your assurtion that the United States can dictate to the rest of the World because of its size and wealth (the old, flawed, and morally corrupt "might makes right" argument) is ubsurd, illogical, unreasonable, with out any moral foundation, with out any legal foundation,...and the United States attempting to dictate to the rest of the World could, and would, have disasterous effects on our Nation and our way of life because the rest of the World would not stand for it.

You assertion that the USA has a responsibility to colonize the World is even worse than your assumption that the USA has the right to dictate to the rest of the World.

"An informed electorate is the Democrat Party's worse nightmare." -Rush

Building Mosques on Sacred Sites of Defeated Enemies a Symbol of Conquest

http://www.hudson-ny.org/1496/mosques-on...

Just a broken link jhh. Nothing there either.

Oh and we were not fighting tyrrany in Vietnam...we were fighting the Vietnamese People. Fortunately for them, we were no match for them. They lost about 3 million people and weren't even close to surrendering. That was nothing but more attempted empire building and like Afghanistan...our attempt at empire building in Vietnam was nothing but a horrible tradjedy for our nation. If their is a God, let's hope She forgives us all for what our Nation did to those folks in Vietnam.

The wesite militanislam etc., could not be found. Anybody had any luck finding anything on the allegation, no statement, that the Columbia mosque has been raided three times by the FBI?

When trying to reach the above mentionrd link I got this: http://finder.cox.net/main?InterceptSour...

When people stop arguing the issues and start beating (verbally) on each other, more comments get deleted. Maybe it would be good to take a break for a day or two?

Slater

The Cordoba House was the idea of Imam Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf. He is an American citizen who has spent most his life trying to help educate fellow Americans about Islam and Muslim culture in an effort to create a better understanding between the Muslim and non-Muslim communities in America.

http://asmasociety.org/about/b_rauf.html

The organization states that its purpose for constructing the Cultural Center is because,

"A need exists in New York City, America and the world to integrate Islamic education, spiritual development, the arts and culture under one roof. The Muslim community in NYC will build a world-class facility to promote tolerance, self-awareness and self-recognition within society. Both community driven and globally oriented, the center will serve as the platform to launch a broader vision of Muslim-West harmony and interdependence. The community center will satisfy the current need of a prayer space in the lower Manhattan area, making it the only prayer area opened for the five daily prayers below Houston (greater lower Manhattan)."

http://www.interfaithing.com/cordoba-hou...

That seems pretty reasonable.

I have not been able to find the date when the Imam had the original idea for the new Cultural Center or the date that they purchased the land. The land may very well have belonged to them for some time now since the organization has been around since the '60s serving the religous needs of many Americans in New York.

john henry's hammer

"Deserted this Country"? lol lol lol.

I am a Vietnam Era Army Veteran who served his country faithfully.

As to Australia...I don't remember checking my American Citizenship at the door. I am still just as American as the day I was born -- with all the same full rights as any other American...no matter what soil I happen to be standing on at any given moment. So get over it dude.

News, Mrs Marple, anyone else.

I am STILL waiting for an answer as to how you cannot see the INSENSITIVITY of building a Mosque and/or community center or whatever other name they might throw onto it, so close to the very spot that MUSLIM TERRORISTS destroyed, attacked and killed on our own territory.

AND if you dont consider it insensitive then you would agree that I can fly my confederate flag on the grave of Martin Luther King Jr and no one should care at all?

Again, for those without common sense, it is NOT a freedom of religion or any other 'rights' issue, it is a common sense and sensitivity issue. Just because I have the RIGHT to so something does NOT make it the right thing to do.

This is NO different with you Libbies when you call those who oppose Obama or obama care racist simply because we disagree with his policies and agenda, you try to twist or blatantly disort reality into something that is not even the issue, NOR was it ever the issue.

End States Who Sponsor Terrorism

Fifty years of increasing American appeasement in the Mideast have led to fifty years of increasing contempt in the Muslim world for the U.S. The climax was September 11, 2001.

http://www.capitalismmagazine.com/war-pe...

"The wife of the imam behind the Cordoba House Muslim community center in Manhattan says the opposition to its construction goes "beyond Islamophobia," likening it to a "metastasized anti-Semitism."

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0822/mosque-...

joh henry's hammer - I sure think that you ought to refudiate those "political 'fractions' that are negotating for hostage money to buy arms."

Taxedpayer,

Certainly I would not have a problem with it. At least I don't think it would be a problem in any of the churches I attend but I can't speak for all of them.

Frankly taxedpayer I'm not interested in attending a mosque. I was just wondering if an infidel was welcome because I didn't know? Thanks for the info.

A church is not a physical structure so the speak without people a church is just another building. Christians could meet anywhere and that place or building could be considered a church. Would anybody be able to walk into a mosque looking for a place to worship? I would like to think I could walk into any church in this country and worship.

Miss Marple

Good point!

Of course it really does not matter which it is...they have the constitutional right to build it and enjoy it with out physical interference of any kind from the Christofacists who want to stop these good people from enjoying their full right to Constitutional equality right here in THEIR own Country.

Sunday Quote

"Men despise religion; they hate it and fear it is true. To remedy this, we must begin by showing that religion is not contrary to reason; that it is venerable, to inspire respect for it; then we must make it lovable, to make good men hope it is true; finally, we must prove it is true. Venerable, because it has perfect knowledge of man; lovable because it promises the true good."- Blaise Pascal

Wow news your videos show you are really coming around to the belief in intelligent design. Man news believing in intelligent design and okr being a right winger now we're getting somewhere.

OKR

Thanks for the link to the Frank Rich piece.

Excellent analysis!!!!!

"Intelligent Design Really Is Being Expelled!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXf8COiHM...

rr3 I see you have again run out of original comments. Why don't you spare us the copy, and paste of other's comments with no quotes? If you have nothing to say on a topic yourself just a link to what some one else says will suffice.

Purportedly you said,

The skeptical worldview The first and foremost principle is that all beliefs should be based upon observational evidence. Unlike theists, who base some of their beliefs on religious writings, skeptics must rely completely upon physical evidence. The second principle is that skeptics must----and so on.

Actually some one else said it. Right?

Not very Christian of you to steal other people's work. Then again you can probably justify any thing you want to justify by YOUR interpretation of the Good Book. Tsk, tsk.

I guess News Across has whipped you in argument so badly that you are now throwing the heavy artillery at him, in the form of someone else's work. Apparently you could not postulate the point yourself.

News Across: i have a tendency to agree with you on the Socialist Democratic Party! We already have socialist endeavors going on all around us! Taxes are socialistic,every Ball Stadium that's built is supported by socialistic Policy,until it gives all the Profits too Private Owner, that gets all kinds of incentives from the City wanting them to build in their Town! Up keep is socialized! That's quite profitable for Capitalist! Other business's get the spill over witch is very little compared to owners of the team,and what they have too pickup in taxes! Most of the ordinary working people can't go to a game (too expensive) and we pay most of the taxes! Socialism is what runs everything and keeps wars going. Does any of this make sense? This is the way i see it! I don't see that Capitalism in any way is good for what we have! With out regulation on everything,and they still get around the regulations,ha! Don't make any sense too me! These intellectual Legal minds can & will eat us common folks alive Socialism makes more sense for everyone.I'm still reading to try and make it all seem equal! Ha. Capitalism seems too be loosing! Social Security is the most effective safe keeping of the old! ss came in effect when i was born. after i got older i remember how happy my Granddad was to receive so little, but a lot to him, i guess!

Below is a story that highlights the fraud waste and abuse that is inherent in EVERY government program... however this story has some funny parts.... the scam was regarding male impotence and erectile problems.... the names of the companies charged with the crimes "Happy Trips: and "Charlie RX" AND they billed the govt for FEMALE patients and their erectile problems.....

However, since this took place in Florida, I am sure that this state has the highest incidence of these types of medical conditions.....

http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/08/16/17...

It took a year and a half... more if you count the campaign and the time after his election, before he took office, but Obama blamed someone else besides Bush for our economic problems??!?!?!?!!?!? Now it is still not HIS fault but Congress' fault... read between the line the republicans and those Dems bailing on him....

All while he took a Gulf Coast vacation, took a dip in the bay, then went on a 3 day campaign trip just to head off for another family vacation, all while telling us common folk we should pay MORE in taxes

news.. once again you are on the wrong side of the mosque issue... no one made a statement that said 100% for sure that the people wanting to build the mosque by the 9/11 site caused 9/11. AND it is not a religious freedom issue it is a common sense issue. In America, in case you have forgotten, we hold many places sacred, places of battles and importance, usually where people have been killed as innocents or serving their country.

In NYC there are already 100s if not 1000s of mosques so the question is NOT do they already have a place ro worship freely so in presence of NUMEROUS mosques the only question remaining is WHY that specific spot, AND if it is all innocent then the funding and specific people backing the mosque should be made public and they should allow anyone off the street to enter into their church, much like the famous Cathedrals do in most cities around the world.

AND any this mosque, if allowed to build, should deny publically any and all funds from nations that help terrorism, such as Iran and almost all of the middle eastern nations.

As I stated, I had nothing to do with the Civil war and slavery, nor did I have anything to do with the trampling of the rights of any minority in our nation's past. HOWEVER, I AM from the south and I believe in acknowledging the part the South played in the history of our nation, all of the good and the bad. So based on YOUR logic it is just fine and dandy for me to demand that a confederate flag be displayed at all monuments that memorialize the end of slavery and those who fought against civil rights abuses. After all it is a free nation all people and all thoughts have equal access to EVERY place in our nation correct?

Further Arguments Against the NYC Mosque

http://www.capitalismmagazine.com/war-pe...

speaking of Obama and all of his wonderful plans to save the economy and 'work for the common folk":

How about all of those millions of people failing out of the Obama housing rescue plan. Glad we spend our millions/billions to provide another hand out that fails

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=...

The skeptical worldview

The first and foremost principle is that all beliefs should be based upon observational evidence. Unlike theists, who base some of their beliefs on religious writings, skeptics must rely completely upon physical evidence. The second principle is that skeptics must be logically consistent at all times. Even in the Bible, which claims to be a record of God's supernatural actions, over 90% of what is described is purely naturalistic.

One who insists that supernatural events never occur is expressing a belief that can never be fully confirmed. To be truly open-minded, one must recognize the possibility that supernatural events do occur.

Problem with the skeptical worldview

It is also possible that the cause of the universe was a supernatural intelligence (i.e., God). However, there is no direct observational evidence for either belief. Those who are "strong atheists" have just violated one of the main rules of atheism - that all beliefs are based upon observational evidence. So, any atheist who denies the possible existence of God violates his own worldview.

The physical laws of the universe fall within very narrow ranges in order for life (or even matter) to exist, suggesting some level of design.

If true, then the observational evidence actually leans toward the existence of God.

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics...

rr

If you want someone to be angry at for the attacks on 9/11...perhaps you might consider Bush and his Admninistration.

Bush was warned of an imminent attack on the U.S. by Al Qaeda using hijacked aircraft to attack targets. Bush was fully briefed...then he promptly left for a vacatiion in Texas. He gave no orders. He did nothing but go on vacation. A month later we were attacked by Al Qaeda using hijacked aircraft to attack targets with.

I don't know about you, but that kind of incompetance -- bordering on criminal negligence -- by Bush and other top Republicans makes me very angry. Prompt action on the warnings by Bush and top Republicans who were in charge of our Government probably would have saved thousands of lives. Instead Bush went on vacation.

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bin_Ladin_D...

http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.j...

http://www.slate.com/id/2098861

rr

You can be skeptical all you want mate. Of course its illogical to condem folks who have not done anything wrong...but I have seen conservatives in action before and they don't seem to be concerned with being right...just winning elections.

Anyway, conservatives are welcome to disaprove of building the Mosque in NY and conservatives can continue to be a religious biggots (a matter of low moral character). That is their choice mate and its there for the whole World to see...

...but if any conservatives step across that line that violates the civil rights of these good Americans who want to build that Mosque, they will find the courts can move very quickly. In fact, I predict we will seen a number of conservatives cross that line and go to prison over this matter before its all over.

"At Pentagon, Muslims pray every day without protests"

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0821/pentago...

Oh to be so naive news to think the ones behind the mosque are innocent. They may be but I remain skeptical.

mrxray

Yes I definately disagree with President Obama and the Democrats approach to the economy as I have stated many times...but going back to the neo-classical economic policies of the Republican Party that caused this Great Depression II would be the death knell of any hope for a recovery. Utilizing neo-classical economic policy would further fuel the spiraling deflation dramatically.

As an Independent voter and as an economist, my preferential approach is that of the Democratic Socialist Party.

http://www.dsausa.org/dsa.html

I certainly don't support capitalism nor do I support fascism and frankly both the Democrats and the Republicans look pretty much the same to me now days. They look like one political party -- the Unified Fascist Party -- to this independent voter.

Perhaps what we are seeing is the end of capitalism as we know it. Maybe capitalism is like an old car that never has run well and perhaps is on its last leg now. All the economic indicators are telling me we are in for one heck of bad time economicaly and we may never recover from this one. I remain highly skeptical of the paultry, watered down Keynesian approach of President Obama, I am extremely skeptical of the Republican neo-classical approach which was responsible for the depth of this depression, and I remain hopeful that this depression may spawn a renewal of interest in the socialist economic approach.

One thing is for sure...we need a new deal 'cause that capitalism isn't working out real well.

Army base/christian concert issue: I agree that religion should not be pushed in the military. Concerts should be publicized and the soliders should be given the opportunity to attend if possible.

However, having been in the Army there is a strong push to get the soldiers to attend concerts and special activities that civilians volunteer to conduct at military bases and sometimes there are over eager young officers and NCOs that take it to the extreme. In the attempt to show support for those that are willing to perform for the troops they can become too pushy and overbearing.

But if you have experienced stuff like this by your actual personal experience in the military you would understand that this has nothing to do with a specific religion but more to do with showing appreciation for things that people do for the troops. The chains of command can push troops to attend any type of event that happens on base. IF this were to happen at a country music or rock concert no one would say anything at all, but I saw this take place for these events all the time.

news you claim cutting entitlement programs at this time of horrible economic times would be wrong thing to do... HOWEVER to support the programs of MRS Obama, they are taking AWAY funding for food stamps to pay for her pet project, fighting obesity. Granted fighting Obesity is a good thing BUT by taking away money from people who have little or no income to pay for some pet project of the first lady is the RIGHT thing to do?

AND New Orleans has started a new state run school voucher program to increase the quality of their schools. This similar type of program that was run for several years in DC was defunded by OBAMA even though it was increasing the quality of education for ALL students.

The typical thought process that the government can fix all things much better than the local people who are involved with the specifics of their region is pure theoretical nonsense and is proven wrong over and over and over. Anytime the government gets involved, fraud waste abuse and corruption is rampant and adds high cost to the programs.

The progressives and liberals want their slave class of people that are not educated enough to understand that dependency is a mental disorder... all they care about are more voters that are uneducated

That applies to any opinion mate...

We have the right to express our opinion provided we can find a voice for said opinion.

However, we don't have the right to stop a group of American Christians from building a new church on their own property and in full compliance with local building codes. Nor do we have the right to stop a group of Jews or Muslims from building a new temple or mosque on their own property and in full compliance with local building codes.

Your right to express your opinion is just as well protected by the Constitution. Both your right to voice your opinion and their right to practice their religion -- as well as your and their right to equality before the law (14th Ammendemnt to the U.S. Constitution) -- are part of that wonderful document that is at the center of what is often referred to as "the Great Democratic Experiment." We are a fortunate People.

rr3yv0

Folks don't have to like the Mosque...

...as long as they don't cross a line and try to stop the Muslims from building their Mosque on the property they own and in complete compliance with New York building codes...provided those codes don't violate their civil rights of course.

You can cry about it all you want...but their right to practice their religion and to be treated equally before the law come before your objections and matter more than your objections.

john henry's hammer

Socialism is an economic system not a political system.

In addition, the Democratic Socialist Party fully supports our Constitution, our laws, and our form of Governement. They support our Democratic Republic very strongly and they support our civil rights with a gusto never seen on the right wing of our political system.

http://www.dsausa.org/dsa.html

As to guns in Australia. Every hunter I know owns a gun.

Many non-hunters also own guns here.

It is true that gun owner ship under Conservative Prime Minister Howard (the Australian equivalient of a Republican) did increase regulation of gun ownership but they certainly did not go door to door collecting guns. In fact, Australian Federal and State court systems would never have tolerated that. These folks take their rights against unwarranted search and seizure very seriously.

Gun owners here are merely required to pass a back ground check, show cause for gun ownership such as being a hunter, member of a shooting club, a police or private security officer, ect, follow regulations for carrying a weapon in public (must be licensed, gun must be visable, must be good security reason for carrying gun, must be approved by State Police and AFP), and follow hunting and transport of weapon regulations.

You really should get your facts straight before you post a comment mate.

Oh one other thing...yes I emigrated to Australia...but I am still an American who owns a resident in Missouri and who still votes in every election. We Americans don't shed our citizenship or our rights as Americans just because we happen to have a residence in another country or because we spend a lot of time in that country.

One thing about it news we will find out how the Democrats make every attempt possible to wreck this country with their lame duck congress. They will lose and yes my talent is on loan from God and CAPITALISM IS BOSS!!!

News you still don't get it you should have attended the University of Reality. The ones responsible for this mess you voted for they are in charge thats why its not getting any better. Use the KISS principle news.

News he said we should not use the first amendment as a sword but we should act as Americans. Example News if you and I were neighbors and we know what we know about each other now would it be neighborly of me to erect a cross or a nativity scene facing your house. Lets say I have never done such a thing I was just doing it for your benefit would I be a good neighbor? I think they have every right to put a mosque there but is it the right thing to do. He also said that groundbreaking for this mosque would be 09/11/2011 now does it really have to be on that day? I think it is blatant disregard and disrespect for the American people but they can still do it if they want.

News I agree and have been saying that all along but I was really hoping that I would be wrong.

"If a program expands the deficit, by law, it has to have a sunset. It has to end. But the Democrats wanted Obamacare to be perpetual. So they had to lie that it will reduce the deficit $118 billion. Now they're telling Democrats to forget talking about cost savings. Instead, talk about the improvements to health care. It was a big lie, and we all knew it." -Rush

I am not going back to the piece rr3, it takes too long to roll back to August 5th, but my recall is that my right winger comment was part of a broad satirical jab at the heavy handed neglect by conservatives of the unfortunate.

I meant those conservatives who regularly dismiss all that are in poverty as low lifes that prefer to do nothing. It has been a feature of conservative polemics for centuries. The Irish plight is just one of many I chose to be the base of my satire.

Most when you pin them down, back off, and admit that there are many who are in desperate circumstances,and add "I wasn't talking about them". That illustrates part of my point. That group of conservatives never mentions the unfortunates that they grudgingly admit do exist. It is always those that illustrate worst case that they talk about. What is the significance of that?

It could be many things, but most likely a combination of factors. Putting the best face on it perhaps it is just that those poor conservatives can't bear to think about, or mention justified hard ups because it tears their compassionate hearts to pieces.

More likely though it has its origins in baser emotions, greed for instance. Such as I don't want those lazy ( insert favorite racial group, or class here) to get something for nothing. Folks like ME would reap more material rewards if we weren't having to take care of those rotten b**tards.

Maybe part of it is a rationalization of subconcious guilt.

Whatever it is, and it could be other things, the result is that many percieve it as harshness, and lack of compassion, that in its extreme borders on sociopathy.

In denouement, I must say that I do not tar all conservatives with this brush. Henry Bellmon was a conservative Republican, and if not the best Governer Oklahoma ever had, he was unarguably one of the best. Whatever the reason those of whom I speak have a certain nastiness about them, they exhibit an insularly driven false grace that makes most of us at the least uneasy.

News I don't know if you are qualified to make that statement. Do you have the scientific evidence, has it passed peer review and do you have proof it was taken out of context? Unless you are batting for okr now I guess only okr can answer that now can't he?

rr3yv0

Your quote alleged to be OKR's statement? It reads as if it was taken out of context and is someting he have been saying with some level of sarcasm.

Perhaps you merely misunderstood his statement.

Just announced that health care cost will increase 8.9% next year. I thought that the passage of Obamacare would save us money. Did they lie? I just can't believe they would do that I guess it is a see I told you so.

Distracting Republicans with the Ridiculous and Absurd

But don't expect this to be the end of completely irrelevant questions asked to GOP candidates. The media senses that the end is coming for Democratic reign in Congress, and that every second Republicans are reminding people of the damage the Democrats have wrought just hastens the process.

http://www.redstate.com/lexington_concor...

And that's how we got Jack Kennedy one of my favorite presidents. Oh gosh, I guess he can't be that anymore since I am now a right winger.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Aug 5, 2010, at 11:51 PM

Now okr I guess I showed you.

OKR

lol...

Re: Bill Maher. Hilarious, and on the money with his observations.

rr3: I do not believe I have ever said I was a right winger, nor inferred it.

I live in Oklahoma, but I was born 'n' raised in Missouri. Show me.

Some peoples sanity has taken a long walk off of a short pier quite some time ago but it doesn't keep them from talking.

You are the one that said it okr in one of your post not me.

rr3 what on earth gave you the perception I am a right winger? I have opinions that run the gamut from left to right, but more to the left, most would say. I don't think I can be pidgeon-holed. I support some libertarian positions for instance. One thing I do not support is Corporatocracy, too darn close to fascism for my tastes. People left or right can be opposed to that. All you have to believe is one person, one vote. Democracy.

It goes to show we can't legislate morality. We have tried and it doesn't work. Take affirmative action they put one race or gender above another and perpetuate the very problem it was supposed to solve.

Okay, John Henry, I'll take your words at face value and say that you've placed all females above all males, including yourself.

Yes, the human race is a matriarchal society in spite of what many males would have us believe. Females have been the sustenance of our existence from the very beginning, and I believe males simply are jealous of this stature. What other compelling reason explains why females are still fighting for equality?

Solutions for America

http://thf_media.s3.amazonaws.com/2010/p...

Warning:This link contains positive ideas and the truth. Read at your own risk.

All the days of the afflicted are evil, But he who is of a merry heart has a continual feast. ( Proverbs 15:15 *NKJV )

The thoughts we have today dictate what our future holds for us tomorrow. Therefore a person who has positive thoughts shall have positive results, just as a person who has negative thoughts shall attract negative results in their life.

Happy are the people who are in such a state; Happy are the people whose God is the Lord! ( Psalms 144:15 )

May everyone have happy and positive thoughts and feast continually.

Well now okr you told us you were a right winger now. What happened?

Slater good to see you commenting again. Yup. I fess up that I know Slater a little bit. I will vouch that he is one of the nicer, more considerate people around. That is except when he tussles with News Across, then all bets are off. ;) But then that info will probably endear him to you guys on the right all the more? ;(

Dennis Kuchinich is no corporate shill. As usual he is ahead of the game with the guts to call out his colleagues in the House of Representatives.

He is a gutsy, and honest legislator saying now about Afghanistan what the rest will say in another year, or two.

I hope that he runs for President against Barak Obama in the 2012 Democratic primary.

Stop our nations longest war. A war that though the longest, has the least identifiable success.

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/201...

...and one or two other thoughts, rr3.

I couldn't care less about Limbaugh's drug habit, or about Clinton "not inhaling," or Obama's cocaine snorting. That kind of stuff is fodder for the National Enquirer - you know, that tabloid focusing on all of those "great minds" who just HAVE to know.

You're not onto my game, rr3. If you were, you'd stop being so serious all the time and have a laugh or two along with me.

Slater I think you are confusing being conservative and ones faith is the same thing. Christians do tend to be conservative and conservatives tend to be Christian. I cannot figure how you can be Christian and liberal or pro-abortion.

I guess the liberals can't give some things up. Rush went to rehab for his drug problem and as far as we know he is still clean. But then we have Bill "I never inhaled" Clinton and Barack "I snorted cocaine once" Obama why not refer to them as drug addicts. Oh I know its because you agree with them and anyone you disagree with instead a arguing the facts lets just call them a drug addict. I'm on to your game Slater.

If Rush is gay I must be too because his new bride is 'LOOKIN GOOD'.

Heh heh...No, rr3, it would be Rush Coulter, or Rush Limbaugh-Coulter.

Hey OKR, I didn't know Rush is gay!

rr3:

You have had your little fun,

enjoyed your time in the sun,

and we hope that you are done.

Could it be you are sad a bit,

find your own stuff inadequate?

You forgot to stop and think.

If not your words, use a link.

Excepting to his "Ditto Heads", Rush is a big fat liar. The only thing that he has legitimately proven is a delicious irony, that being that a person can be a drug addict, show up for work every day, not slur words, and inspire a lot of people.

So much for drug testing in the work place. Think about it. All those folks that think Rush does an amazing job might want to begin lobbying to remove Oxycontin from the group of drugs that are screened in the work place.

The folks that use it (if Rush is any example) may be just as amazing in the jobs that they are currently barred from undertaking. Such a lobbying effort could adopt a Palinesque rallying cry like "how's that Oxy workin for you?". Or the more dignified "better working through chemistry". Watcha think?

John I commend your ability to articulate your thoughts. I find it easy to think about what you want to say but not so easy to put it in writing.

No news you are absolutely wrong I have explained time and time again at the risk of sounding like you bragging about your education. Don't tell me I haven't done something when you refuse to listen maybe John was right you didn't even read it.

rr3yv0

No you have never even addressed the question and every reader here knows that whether they say so or not.

You say economic depressions are self-correcting.

Please explain in detail how that happens.

You have given us effect...what is the cause?

Hey Slater if he was married to her would that be Ann Limbaugh?

rr3 - thank you for sharing the drug-induced babbling of Limbaugh.

Is he married to Ann Coulter?

"What happened to all of those 'shovel-ready jobs' Obama promised to fund with the Porkulus bill? It looks to me like the only 'shovel-ready job' is going to be the job of burying the Democrat Party." -Rush

Lower taxes and limited government spending have always led to an increase of revenue to the government. Kind of like abstinence news it works everytime it is tried.

I do agree news that this economy is going to get worse as long as the current administration is in charge. I think everyone that voted for Obama owes the American people an apology. What do you think?

john henry's hammer

In economics we define both recession and depression exactly the same...a period of declining prices accompanied by high unemployment. I know you have probably heard some economists refer to a recession as a mild economic downturn. Trust me, there are a lot of economists winking and nodding with that one. This may surprise you, but a lot economists worry the truth might scare the bejesus out of folks. I don't worry about it. I think I have a responsibility to call a period of deflation just what it is...a depression.

Interstingly enough, FDR ordered Government Economists to refer to deflationary periods as "recessions" after he took office. He was concerned of the ramifications of the term "economic depression" on the minds of the American People. His concern was well founded. After years of depression, Americans were probably terrified of the words "economic depression," and indeed it is ultimately consumers' outlook of the economy that has the greatest effect on the economy. As FDR said, "All we have to fear is fear itself." Fear of, or confidence in, the perceived future of the economy ultimately drives present consumption decisions. So now we call deflationary periods "recession" instead of depression...but they are defined the same in the field of Economics.

The current depression is the worst economic downturn -- depression/recession -- we have experienced since the last crash in 1929, and if phantom unemployment -- those folks who are no longer on the unemployment roles but remain unemployed -- is as high as many of my colleagues believe it is then the actual unemployment rate would be roughly double the unemployment rate reflected by the number of people collecting unemployment insurance payments...around 20% to 22% total unemployment, including phantom unemployment...which puts the effective, current unemepoyment rate close to the estimated 25% unemployment of the last Great Depression.

The current period of deflation began in December, 2007. It has not yet relented. Concepts such as a "jobless recovery" are meaningless and misleading. There is no recovery until employment recovers. With out good paying jobs with good benefits and long term employment prospects, consumption -- particularly consumption of new housing starts and durable goods -- will continue to drop over the long run, resulting in futher job cuts and even furher decreased consumption...and on and on in what amounts to a domino effect. Yes mate, it is a Great Depression...the greatest since the last Great Depression, and its even possible that our economy may never return to its peak seen during the Clinton years.

In my professional opinion, we should begin immediate, direct Government hiring of as many of the unemployed as we can and put them to work rebuilding our infrastructure. This would substantially increase consumption of durable goods and new housing starts...increasing employment even further and creating significant levels of new, good paying jobs in the economy. In addition, the new Government consumption of resource products such as steel, concrete, lumber, ect, would create even more new jobs in the economy as both producers and retaliers scramble to recruit new-hires to keep up with the increased sales. In turn all these newly employed would continue to fuel consumption and spur on the creation of even more new jobs...in a reverse domino effect.

In my professional opinion, only the Federal Government, already the largest single employer in the United States, has the power to creat the kind of massive employment we need to reverse the deflation and create real recovery.

Obamacare worth 17.5K dead women a year?

http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2010/08...

I appreciate your support John but someone has to stand against the lies of Mr. Economist. I think with you and I posting the truth, it only shows their true colors so post on. Thanks and CAPITALISM IS BOSS!!!

Reading many entry's in this post by certain folks is like groundhog day(THE MOVIE WHEN EACH DAY REPEATS ITSELF) . Politicians have us tied right where they want us. Hold on to common sense. Quit blaming republicans and quit blaming democrats. "The republicans were in control when the economy sank." Sorry to inform you but the global economy tanked not just the US economy. What about Bill Clinton's terms that were republican controlled in the house and senate. THIS IS AN COMMON SENSE AMERICAN FIGHT NOT A IDEOLOGICAL FIGHT

rr3yv0

Yes I am an economist.

As to how economies work...well that is what we economists study.

As to the proof of economic theory, like any scientific theory, it lies within the empirical evidence.

I don't view economics from a political stand point...I view the data as an economist.

The Social Security bogey man is coming to get us. The neo fascist Republican Party as represented in Congress is nearly unanimous in their desire to destroy social security. They are joined by some undercover fascists masquerading as Democrats.

The truth is that they are lying about the fiscal vulnerability of the seventy five year old social security program. It is reason enough to turn out every one of the devious rascals when they stand for reelection.

Read this, and wake up America. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/16/opinio...

News your economic theories may have worked in the university class room but doesn't work in real life. I am certainly glad I am not that educated to lose common sense and touch with reality. We are looking at a double dip recession by November even with all the spending now explain that Mr. Economist?

rr3yv0

Cutting social spending in a deflationary period is the worst possible thing you could do.

Cutting social spending at this juncture would have a number of very negative economic effects including significantly further reducing consumption. That will translate into more layoffs. Unemployment will rise further reducing consumption. That will mean more layoffs and more unemployment.

Meanwhile, Perfect Competition will begin driving down prices of new housing starts and durable goods. However, unemployed folks don't purchase many new homes or durable goods.

Unemployed folks subsist on autonomous consumption which does the economy very little good. As prices decline at a time when most people have no extra cash at all and fear of job loss is prevalent, consumers tend to put off purchases in hopes of a smaller price tag tomorrow.

In no way would the tax multiplier have any noticeable effect under such conditions except to reduce badly needed tax revenues...at a time when we are trying to also finance 2 overseas wars as well as troops stationed in many nations across the World.

Cutting social spending at this time would be shear economic suicide...no matter which side of the bench one may happen to be on.

Do we really know who is affiliated with the mosque? I all could be on the up and up but I just hope we apply the same standards that we would for any other religion.

News your not listening news CUT SPENDING duh! It will not fail if the government would spend no more than the tax revenue brought in at any given time. It doesn't even take an economist to figure that one out. But every time anyone wants to cut anything the Democrats scream that they are racist, they are giving tax breaks to the rich, they are starving the old people, they are starving the kids, etc, etc, and news they are the very people doing it. Time to wake up news and smell the coffee that is if you have enough scientific evidence to make some. Don't forget CAPITALISM IS BOSS!!!

rr3yv0

I don't thing anyone affiliated with that Mosque has ever attacked us.

I don't think the people affiliated with the strip bars killed 3000 people. I have no problem with their right to practice their religion or their right to build their mosque on private property near ground zero. I don't agree with and I also have that right so are you saying I should give up my right to disagree? I don't think so. I think if it was looked into where the money is coming from and who is behind we should be suspicious. Hey I could be wrong but I still disagree with their intent.

"You know that if somebody came along and wanted to put a Walmart at Ground Zero, the unions and Bloomberg would go nuts. Or if you wanted to put a nativity scene down there? There would be a conniption fit. Obama would say, 'We can't impose our religious views on people this way!'" -Rush

Media Takes Notice As Winning Streak Continues

http://www.freedomworks.org/blog/mduncan...

News you are wrong tax cuts always stimulate the economy. Runaway government spending has always caused deficits not tax cuts. How do you pay for tax cuts you don't thats why they are called CUTS. If we don't cut government spending it won't matter how much we are taxed it will never be enough. Capitalism will bring us back if we allow it because CAPITALISM IS BOSS!!!

But it is very hard to convince a tax and spend liberal of that isn't it? In fact you keep blaming the wrong people for this mess the ones responsible are in charge right now but that's our little secret. Shhh don't tell nobody.

rr3yv0

Yeah I looked at the link of the Republican economic plan...

I have some questions.

1) how do you intend to pay for those tax cuts?

2) Can you cite any empirical evidence that shows that the tax multiplier can cause an economic depression to shift into recovery?

3) How do these tax cuts put people back to work?

4.) With consumer confidence in the economy at a low and unemployment in double digits, how will this tax cut cause consumption of durable goods and new housing starts to recover to the pre-depression levels?

This is basically the same plan the Republicans used under Bush. His economic polcies...this one specifically...lead to the Great Depression II that we are currently suffering under and now the Republicans want to do the same thing to us again????

rr3yv0

I asked what your party's NEW PLANS were. You gave me their OLD PLAN for the economy...the same one that caused our economy to collapse in 2008. Is that all they have to offer us? Are the same previous failed Republican polcies that almost destroyed our Nation the best the Republicans have to offer us?

Does this mean the Republicans don't have any NEW PLANS but instead REPUBLICANS ARE ONLY OFFERING US THE SAME OLD SONG AND DANCE THEY DID UNDER BUSH?

I agree with AA...doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the very definition of the word insanity.

We need fresh ideas. We need a New Deal, but all we get from the Repubulicans are the same failed ideas that caused the problems we have in the first place.

This independent voter will be voting Democrat this time around...

This link rr3 from 2009 was vague, and offered nothing new, just a continuation of the same old Recorporate policies that put us in this mess to start with. http://online.wsj.com/article/NA_WSJ_PUB...

That is why I hesitate to read your links.

Nope, Xray, I don't disagree in general with you on your point, just a caveat. Every historian starts with a point of view, and hopefully supports his theme strictly with the facts.

Thus we get Frederick Jackson Turner, and his frontier hypothesis, thus we get Howard Zinn, and populist history, and so on.

I was speaking of other statements within the body of the commentary. For instance, it provoked the thought for me as to whether, or not it is true that no president can make drastic changes unless that president is riding the tide of a great social movement? That sort of stuff.

Democrats 'plan to steal the vote'

If you thought health-care bill was scary, check out universal-registration scheme

http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=121878

How about the Dems voting to take away more and more money from the Food Stamps programs and giving it to UNIONS and to fund the Mrs Obama Child nutrition plan? I thought DEMS cared about the POOR people??????

House GOP Economic Stimulus Plan

http://republicanwhip.house.gov/Jobs/

news... what exactly is the NEW ideals that the progressives are pushing>? Are they not all still pushing for complete government take over of all decision making by all common folk Americans that they consider too stupid to know what is best for them and spend spend spend spend spend?

Not sure why you oppose what you consider the party of No if they are saying no to government take over, spending TRILLIONS of dollars we dont have and no to creating a class of people who are slaves to the big government political elitists of BOTH parties

Hey news did you get in on that free book deal? I know you like anything free.

rr3yv0

I never saw the detailed new plans the conservatives have.

I think the real problem the Republicans have is...they can't produce new plans for the economy or ending the wars the Republicans started and didn't finish because the Republicans have nothing new.

I don't think your Party has any new plans at all.

All you have are the samea old plans that crashed our economy, spied on Americans with out a warrant in direct violation of our laws, started 2 wars -- one of them based on an outright lie (where are those Iraqi nukes again?) -- and never finished them, caused unemployment to reach double digits while causing a downward spiraling deflation the likes of which have not been seen since the last Great Depression.

I don't think the Republican party has anything to offer us but the same old song and dance they gave us the last time they were in power...

...otherwise I am sure you would have posted the new plans of the Republican Party rather than just claiming to have already posted the Republicans detailed, new plans.

I wonder who Triple r is?

Ok rr3yv0

Let's see the Republican NEW PLANS. What are they offering us?

Let's see the SPECIFICS of how the Republicans' NEW PLAN -- the same folks who caused this depression -- will get the economy moving again.

We want to hear the NEW PLAN you conservatives have.

Whan will you conservatives end the wars you conservatives started but never ended?

Let's here your NEW PLAN.

What is the conservative plan to reduce unemployment? Let's hear your NEW PLAN specifics.

Because I think you don't have a new plan.

I think the only plan your party has is the same old plan that caused our economy to crash, created double digit unemployment, left us not 1 but 2 raging wars to deal with, made torture a standard American practice, spied on us with out a warrant in violation of our laws, and made our Nation the laughing stock of the World.

Xray I am sorry that the only thought that was provoked in you was the one you mentioned. I had hoped that it would give its readers more to mull. Sorry, I hope you get more from the next link that I post for thoughtful consideration.

I guess now we can't argue any success that the current administration is having on our economy. Everything so far has been a dismal failure. What could they do different to kill jobs? What could they do different to increase our debt? What could they do different to prop up the unions that only represent 8% of the workforce? We have an economist that thinks socialized medicine, higher taxes and runaway government spending is the answer. I learned that didn't work when I went to school. I think our current path we are on is a train wreck economically but it is right out of the liberal play book. They have been working to destroy this country for 100 years and they may finally have success. Consevative principals is the answer and CAPITALISM IS BOSS!!!

mrxray

What we need in medicine is socialized medicine, and one of these days we will finally get socialized medicine.

If we don't have enought supplies or hospitals or medicines...then we cut military spending and properly fund socialized medicine. Socialized medicine, fully funded and capable of serving the needs of every American citizen, at no direct cost to the patient, should be our priority.

But I see right now you conservatives are in an uproar over "Terrist Babies" lol lol lol lol...when will conservatives wake up and start addressing the needs of the American People. Where are your new plans -- 'cause the Republican's last plans, back when your boys were in charge (Bush) -- didn't work out real well. So what is the Republicans new plan? Let's hear it. Let's hear your NEW plan to make sure every American has full medical care with out bankrupting the patient? What is your NEW plan to boost the economy...other than the same old reduce taxes for the richest Americans song and dance...We the People, We the Voters, We the taxpayers want to hear the NEW plans...not the same old failed plans the Republicans almost destroyed our Nation with last time around.

Food for thought: http://www.thenation.com/article/154018/...

news...

1. Republican talking points? How is the denial of a life saving drug for cancer a talking point?

Are you saying you condone withholding a life saving drug for the sake of a socialist agenda so that only those deemed worthy by the government are saved?

2. Peer Review. As you can see with this process it IS full of misuse and worse. If the study is done with computer modeling or is conducted based on some pre-set data that the peer reviewers have to accept as fact in order to review the specific study (Because they dont have the time to review and re-collect the data that the specific study was based on) then the whole "garbage in, garbage out" is the only correct and valid outcome for a peer review process. This was seen a lot in the whole Man made global warming "science" that was initially conducted via the biased influence of WHO and the UN and the Al Gore Mania types.

If a creationist submits a paper, study or whathave you to be peer reviewed and the "peer" refuse to even look at it or make statements that "this is creationism therefore it is wrong" and they do not even objectively review the study then how can you ever have a peer review of anything that opposed the reviewers preconcieved biases? LOL

Again, Try Try Try Again.

RR

Can I disprove God's existance? No...and I am not trying to disprove anything.

Science is not about disproving things. Science is about fact. Science seeks to prove not disprove. Science is a methodology by which we seperate what is truth and what is not truth and its done systematically. You have 4 possiblilities with any experiment -- Hypothosis, Null Hypothosis, False Positive, False Negative. That's it.

As to Australia, yes its here. I don't know if their is a hidden continent like Atlantis any place though, and until I see proof that their is a hidden continent like Atlantis, I would have to say that no evidence exists that their is a hidden continent of the nature of Atlantis. Likewise, since there is no testable, observable, rpeatable, varifiable evidence of the existance of a God or Gods, then I must say that no objective evidence of the xistance of a God or Gods.

News can your belief that NO God exist be verified by scientific evidence? If a person has never seen scientific evidence of Australia does that mean it doesn't exist?

rr3yv0

Either an expericment can be repeated with the same results or not.

That is scientific peer review. If an experiment's results are not verifieed independently, they are disgarded. Its not hard to understand...either it is verifiable or its not.

Gee X-Ray are you sure those are todays Republican talking points?

"Death-Panels" lol lol lol lol lol lol lol...

Government Run Health Care Death Panels...

http://biggovernment.com/capitolconfiden...

Encouraging news. The Republicans have their Tea Party. While the Democrats do not have a name for their insurgency against the party establishment it is out there, and showing considerable strength, as it bucks Obama and the Democorpocrat Party.

It is good news because it shows us that the American people are not entirely stupid, and that the voters of both parties are beginning to get the fact that whether Democorpocrat, or Recorpican, our representatives do not represent we human citizens.

Case in point: http://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/index....

News I didn't specify what you take pride in except your intellectual ability you definitely qualify as prideful in that regard. You need to have your facts straight mate.

JHH - no, I don't write for the paper.

john henry's hammer

Yes based upon the fact that Christianity is derived from a small, obscure Middle Easter Religion that was one of thousands of religions of the time -- the rest of which we now call mythology, I do regard the Bible and Christianity and all religions to be mythology.

As a skeptic I can not ignore that it is possible some superior force or beings were behind Big Bang...but the probability of that is very small. So yes I am certainly open to any scientific evidence that would prove that Big Bang was the result of a superior being or beings. However, to date no such scientific evidence of the existance of any God or Gods exists, and I feel I can logically conclude that a God or Gods existing is an unlikely proposal. But hey I could be easily converted to any religion. All I require is scientific evidence that leads to no other logical conclusion that there is a God and scientific evidence that a particular religion's God is the only real God.

I remain skeptical

Most skeptics take pride in their intellectual ability and like to think that they have no "beliefs."

"Just because cause and effect overwhelmingly operate in our universe, does this mean that supernatural events never occur?" one who insists that supernatural events never occur is expressing a belief that can never be fully confirmed. To be truly open-minded, one must recognize the possibility that supernatural events do occur.

The physical laws of the universe fall within very narrow ranges in order for life (or even matter) to exist, suggesting some level of design. The prospect of finding a naturalistic cause for the origin of the universe is bleak at best, since the laws of physics indicate that we will never be able escape the bounds of our universe to even attempt to look for the cause of the universe.

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics...

One thing about it news you have tremendous faith for a skeptic.

CAPITALISM IS BOSS!!!

OKR - great idea!

I heard the other day a comment on the rise of conservatives as beginning in the late 60's when Buckley and crew were convinced the world THEY knew and loved was disintegrating... Oligarchy dies hard, I guess... I always thought of the 60's and 70's as 'growing pains'...

"Florida GOP candidate urges concentration camps for undocumented immigrants"

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0813/gop-can...

Do we really want people like this transforming our Government into a Fasciast/NAZI style Government?

Is this the politics blog, or is this the evangelical blog?

I say a seperate blog for religion. Then we will have those two taboo subjects politics, and religion covered.

What do you think of the weather? Sure has been hot recently. :)

ND

Nature can be easily explained by natural selection. There is a lot of evidence to support the Law of Evolution, but none to support the existance of a God or Gods.

http://www.actionbioscience.org/evolutio...

http://anthro.palomar.edu/evolve/evolve_...

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary...

http://www.nature.com/nature/newspdf/evo...

http://www.hhmi.org/biointeractive/evolu...

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary...

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10574901/

http://www.blackwellpublishing.com/ridle...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence_of...

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/...

http://www.globalchange.umich.edu/global...

"Experience demands that man is the only animal which devours his own kind, for I can apply no milder term to the general prey of the rich on the poor." -- Thomas Jefferson

john henry's hammer

Investigate? I went to Catholic School for 12 years mate...I think I know a thing or 2 about Christianity.

The fact is that to date nobody has come up with even 1 shread of scientifically derrived evidence to support the existance of a God...not even 1.

Unitl there is at least 1 piece of evidence to support the existance of a God, I don't believe it.

Romans 1 vs. 18 - 21 says:

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities - his eternal power and divine nature - have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.

The Proof that God exists is that without Him you couldn't prove anything.

john henry's hammer

Asking someone to disprove God's existance is asking them to prove a negative. That is not reasonable or logical.

I can't disprove the Easter Bunny's existance either...that does mean the Easter Bunny exist. I can't disprove Santa's existance either...but that does not mean Santa really exists. I can't prove a magician's magic trick is not really magic...but that does not mean it is really magic.

The burdon of proof always falls upon the person making the claim. In this case that would be you. You say God exists...not me. So show me just one piece of scientifically derrived evidence that He exists and we can move on.

Nature is not scientific evidence. It can already be easily ezplained by real scientific theories such as evolution which is supported by scientifically derrived evidence.

Perhaps you need to watch the Baloney Detector Kit video again.

News explain the difference between an atheist and a skeptic.

News you are wrong Christmas is about the birth of Jesus that's why they want to call it a winter holiday so they don't have to claim it is about the birth of Jesus. Allah is not the same God that I worship. Apostle Paul did know Jesus and every Christian today knows Jesus as a non-believer you don't. Sorry but you are not qualified to know that. I believe in Jesus by faith and I have all the proof I need. Just like you have faith in evolution, the big bang, etc do you really have all the proof you need?

JHH

Your claims don't past the baloney detector test.

You can learn more about the baloney deterctor kit here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUB4j0n2U...

john henry's hammer

You are the one who made the extraordinary claim that Jesus was an actual historical figure and that even athiest historians agree that Jesus did actually lived and existed as written in that collection of mytholigical books we call the Bible.

So it is now up to you to defend your thesis with qualified sources and scientific evidence. You don't even bother to provide us with a source for the information you allegedly claim exists.

You say,

"Josephius writes about the followers of Jesus, roman history has mention of it, there is no denying as a historical figure he existed."

Where did Josephius write about Jesus? Where is the link to your qualified source of that information so we the readers can verify your claim is accurate and based on physical evidence? By the way, the Romans were extremely serious about documentation. We have a lot of documents from that era and yet there is not one mention of Pilot putting Jesus to death...not one...despite their tendency to tediously record every detail of every public act of Governement.

you say,

"I've repeatedly asked you about Dawkins and his inability to sensibly discuss evolution and creation. News, I've asked about debates where even the college students note is inability to list scientific principle to support evolution."

Who says that about Dawkins? You? Some un-named and mysterious college students? That is nothing more than your empty opinion unless you can provide a qualified source of those claims with evidence that Dawkins does not cite physical evidence.

you say,

"I have asked about the frauds concerning Java Man, Orce man, misrepsentation of Neanderthals, haeckels ebbryo sequence, Brontosauras, and what National Geographic had to recant concerning Archaeoraptor..........."

Where is your source citing and link for that information? I would really love to have a look at it...but I don't think you have a qualified source for that. Maybe you heard if from some other non-expert who heard it from some other Joe? Maybe your preacher told you that. Where are you qualifed citations that prove your claims? When did you establish that your claims are accurate? Let's see the National Geographic article you claim you are refering to. Tell me the names of these folks who make these claims so I can check their background to see if indeed they are legitimate scientists and if indeed their claims have passed peer review in credible scientific journals?

If you are trying to say there have been some frauds who tried to pass off phoney scientific evidence as real...yes that is true. One of the things scientific methodolgy does very well is to root out those frauds. But that does not mean we then ignore the enormous amount of physical evidence that is real and fully verified.

You make a lot of empty claims mate, and it all means nothing without qualified citations and physical evidence.

You own the claim mate...now defend it. Let's see your proof.

JHH...

Perhaps Dr, Hawkins can answer the question of "What if you are wrong?" than I can.

"Richard Dawkins - "What if you're wrong?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mmskXXet...

oops

must have offended someones sensibilities.

sorry

zeke

rr3 - the bible also tells you to 'give away all you have and follow Me' - ... ;>D

rr3yv0

I thought ours was a government of the people, for the people, and by the people.

As to your mythological approach to economics,...it is not necesaary to have a class system at all. We socialists strive for a 1 class society...no rich, no poor. In a socialist economy the benefits of society are equally shared by all the members of that society -- instead of directing the bulk of that wealth into the hands of just 1% of the population...as you do in a capitalist economy.

As to Christmas...yes mate, I always wish everyone a very merry Christmas during the holidays. In fact, I am one of those folks who goes all out for Christmas. Its my favorite time of year! Of course it might be more correct to call it "Saturnalia" since that was the original name of the Roman Holiday which the Romans later re-named "Christmas." But what ever you call it...I like it!

News the bible tells us the poor will always be with us and we are to help them not the government.

OKR

I tried not to read the story at common dreams but by the time I realized I shouldn't read it, I had already read it. Now I know.

Shhh. Don't ask, don't tell, and maybe no one should even read the story at this link. http://thinkprogress.org/2010/08/10/mill...

For those of you in the Marshall area who are of the Muslim faith, I wish you all a most happy Ramadan!!

Same old rant.

Same old cant.

Another slant?

At least it is good to see this blog going to the dogs.;)

To heck with the argument of whether capitalism or socialism is king. How 'bout we stick to the real world of right now.

What does any GOP politician propose right now that will bolster our extremely damaged and "going down in flames" economy? The right, through several years of pandering to the top 1% along with two unfunded elective wars, has created this mess. How will they fix it if given control of congress?

And for the so called progressives, what is it that Sara Palin and the rest of the tea partiers have for ideas to restore the american dream? God, Guns, and Gays will not do one single thing for our future. Tell me how we can create jobs, decent paying middle class jobs with any of thier positions on these issues?

And if anyone says "supply side economics", Reaganomics, or "trickle down economics" then I will be the first to call you a liar. The failed conservative policies of the past 30 years are what got us here. Period.

The only jobs I see being created by conservatives are jobs for people making up ridiculous tv ads blasting those "tax and spend democrats." To me it shows me just how out of touch conservative groups have become. If you think Skelton ruined the Missouri economy then I would like to hear how. And just what is the "Pelosi Agenda"? I certainly haven't heard Pelosi herself announce an agenda. Oh the glittering generalities, a favorite of the right.

Perhaps a bigger wedge driven right down the heart of our country will make it better, eh fellas? Let's see if we can't move further from compromise and reason and just base every decision on whether it wins votes from the conservative base or not. Surely that will bring us the bright future we all can now only dream of.

Conservatives and liberals are kindred spirits as far as government spending is concerned. First, let's make sure we understand what government spending is. Since government has no resources of its own, and since there's no Tooth Fairy handing Congress the funds for the programs it enacts, we are forced to recognize that government spending is no less than the confiscation of one person's property to give it to another to whom it does not belong -- in effect, legalized theft.

-- Walter Williams

Here's a couple more sob stories to add to your collection Nanadot. The Democrats drove New Jersey to the poor house not capitalism.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/jacketco...

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/arti...

CAPITALISM IS BOSS!!!

OKR...If you haven't read David Stockman's book, "Triumph of Politics" then I highly recomend it. In it he tells all about how then President-elect Ronald Reagan ordered him to take steps to create a major recession (10+% unemployment in 1982) in order to break the backs of unions.

Its the classic story of a politician selling out the People in favor of his political ideals...conservative.

I read his book while in college and I was shocked when I realized what Reagan's true agenda was. It also explained how we went from stagflation to depression in just 2 short years.

Again, Stockman's book, "Triumph of Politics," is an excellent read.

SmartDog thanks for posting the Stockman piece. I read his op-ed in the Times, and had intended to post a link to it, but some how forgot to do it. I'm glad you did not.

So, fellow posters of the conservative bent, do you favor extending the Bush era tax cuts for the rich? Are you in lock step with the Republican establishment in Washington? The Republican establishment has dug in their heels, and is fighting tooth, and nail to preserve them. How about you guys?

rr3 - you mean THIS capitalism?....

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/08...

84 Days to Decide: Democrats Roll Dice With Education Aid Vote

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/08/...

Sounds like we are paying for their campaign don't you think? No need to let a good crisis go to waste.

I could also go to a Government Motors dealer and get a new car. I mean it shouldn't cost anything since we have about 60 billion invested in the company. GM at the most would be worth 52-54 billion boy I'm really counting on getting our money back.

You know news you're right every time I'm short on money I just spend more that brings everything back in line. Yep thats it works every time. Man I should have been an economist.

Like I said news capitalism is working just fine. Its the government screwing it up. Higher taxes and wreckless spending is going to further collapse the economy. Obama wants to transform America and the best way to do it is collapse our economy so he can come to the rescue. Is that what you really want news?

CAPITALISM IS BOSS!!!

"We live in a country that values individual enterprise, personal responsibility and individual freedom. The more the government takes out of your pocket the less we have of all three of those things." -Karl Rove

Jhh no problem we all have a brain **** now, and then. Hilary, nor Barak were my primary candidate. I had seen enough about the pending war to decide it was misguided at best, and I knew that all the Senators, and Representatives had at least as much info as did I. Therefore I would not have voted for any candidate that was stupid enough, misguided enough, or disingenuos enough to have voted for it.

I truly believe that history will determine in hindsight that it was one of the greatest blunders in our nation's history. Most of our nation could not hear rational voices because of the deafening beat of the drums of war.

How did we get to the point that we love a good war so much, and are so exhilarated by the prospect, that we say screw the particulars, let's go?

rr3 not just that the site you pointed me to presented few viable solutions to our critical needs is the problem. The problem is that the Republican leadership denies supporting even those weak half measures with comments like we should declare a moratorium on all federal regulation. Now that will really cause Goldman Sachs, and CitiBank to toe the line. Not!

Jo you might want to read this, provided by Move On.org. Others may find it interesting.

Top 5 Social Security MythsRumors of Social Security's demise are greatly exaggerated. But some powerful people keep spreading lies about the program to scare people into accepting benefit cuts.

Myth: Social Security is going broke.

Reality: There is no Social Security crisis. By 2023, Social Security will have a $4.3 trillion surplus (yes, trillion with a 'T'). It can pay out all scheduled benefits for the next quarter-century with no changes whatsoever.1 After 2037, it'll still be able to pay out 75% of scheduled benefits--and again, that's without any changes. The program started preparing for the Baby Boomers retirement decades ago.2 Anyone who insists Social Security is broke probably wants to break it themselves.

Myth: We have to raise the retirement age because people are living longer.

Reality: This is a red-herring to trick you into agreeing to benefit cuts. Retirees are living about the same amount of time as they were in the 1930s. The reason average life expectancy is higher is mostly because many fewer people die as children than did 70 years ago.3 What's more, what gains there have been are distributed very unevenly--since 1972, life expectancy increased by 6.5 years for workers in the top half of the income brackets, but by less than 2 years for those in the bottom half.4 But those intent on cutting Social Security love this argument because raising the retirement age is the same as an across-the-board benefit cut.

Myth: Benefit cuts are the only way to fix Social Security.

Reality: Social Security doesn't need to be fixed. But if we want to strengthen it, here's a better way: Make the rich pay their fair share. If the very rich paid taxes on all of their income, Social Security would be sustainable for decades to come.5 Right now, high earners only pay Social Security taxes on the first $106,000 of their income.6 But conservatives insist benefit cuts are the only way because they want to protect the super-rich from paying their fair share.

Myth: The Social Security Trust Fund has been raided and is full of IOUs

Reality: Not even close to true. The Social Security Trust Fund isn't full of IOUs, it's full of U.S. Treasury Bonds. And those bonds are backed by the full faith and credit of the United States.7 The reason Social Security holds only treasury bonds is the same reason many Americans do: The federal government has never missed a single interest payment on its debts. President Bush wanted to put Social Security funds in the stock market--which would have been disastrous--but luckily, he failed. So the trillions of dollars in the Social Security Trust Fund, which are separate from the regular budget, are as safe as can be.

Myth: Social Security adds to the deficit

Reality: It's not just wrong -- it's impossible! By law, Social Security funds are separate from the budget, and it must pay its own way. That means that Social Security can't add one penny to the deficit.1

Jo I found this site talking about the SS trust fund. They throw a lot of numbers around and it may not be what your looking for.

http://newsburglar.com/2009/04/07/social...

How would you find out how much is owed to Social Security? Maybe one of you can help! Thanks! I can't find anything.

The philosophy of liberty:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z1buym2x...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100806/ap_o...

Anyone STILL wondering why Unions and Education do not go hand in hand? LOL I guess it is good for the dirty old man perverts that teach....

"71% Think Prop 8 is Unconstitutional -- Source: Fox News"

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/08/0...

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/08/0...

Greed, unchained is running amok in our country. with our approval Greed is walking arm in arm with Hope, and Aspiration. We murmur, "Well, Greed is with a good crowd," What sort of fools have we become?

We curse the members of "our" Congress, and march out to vote for change, only to find that our new hero feeds at a similar trough as the Congress member we replaced.

Are we even greater fools by believing that we can change the result without changing the system that our Representatives have to live with every day they are in office?

We will not get what we want until we the taxpayers are paying the cost of campaigns, and elections. It is the only way that Congress will ever again answer to us instead of corporations, trade unions, and other powerful special interests.

We will not get what we need until we properly regulate 'Wall Street" which has become a roiling den of unregulated gambling, stealing, and double dealing. Even should this doubtful recovery become a success how long would it be before those who walk on our backs unregulated throw us into another financial crisis?

Will we remain the fools we have become until most of us are sitting on our haunchs in the dirt?

News the species was no different they were still stickleback fish and have been from the time God created them. The 5% that adapted and survived the lower temperatures simply adapted something species were designed to do. You have nothing here news and by no means any mountain of evidence. Show a species changing from one to another and actual evidence then you would have something. You have none!!!

No john henry's hammer

She isn't selling anything nor was she paid for speaking to this group of rationalists. She merely presents the history and facts surrounding the creationist attempt to circumvent our 1st Ammendment Seperation of Church and State as well as discussing in depth how the creationist concept of "irreducible Complexity" was completely debunked by science in the court room.

Opps! another typo...

I meant to say "methodological" not "methodlogical."

Peer Review:

Problems with Peer review in general and with creationism: http://www.dakotavoice.com/2008/02/creat...

From another source:

Richard Horton, editor of the British medical journal The Lancet, has said that

The mistake, of course, is to have thought that peer review was any more than a crude means of discovering the acceptability -- not the validity -- of a new finding. Editors and scientists alike insist on the pivotal importance of peer review. We portray peer review to the public as a quasi-sacred process that helps to make science our most objective truth teller. But we know that the system of peer review is biased, unjust, unaccountable, incomplete, easily fixed, often insulting, usually ignorant, occasionally foolish, and frequently wrong.[23]

Another:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/02/health...

Anyway, there are more articles on the horrible bias, fraud and other problems when it comes to 'peer review' within the sciences.

It all boils down to the age old cause of all problems... money. The journals dont want to offend those that support them or those that might provide extra funding or they might have economic pressure from the likes of politicians or Al Gore.... for example.

But if you want to discuss evolution, the problems are many with that science, just as it is with the science of creationism. However, no one argues that species evolve over time due to external changes in habitat. The point of contention is when someone tries to explain exactly how we evolved from a single celled being into the complex being that humans are and why are there no other animals that have had their brains evolve at the same rate to the same rate with the same bodily abilities.

here is an interesting article about the science of creationism, not specifics but of the methods... the three questions asked are "can a law explain it, does chance explain it or Does Design explain it?

Read in the article....

I just am tired of the whole argument by news about the whole concept of Peer Review, like that is the JD Power award of science or the Good Housekeeping stamp of approval ... LOL

BE HONEST News

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424...

Interesting paragraph in this article about the "Recovery" that obama and biden so desparately want.

"The latest figures confirm the labor market has lost much of its momentum in recent months. The private sector has added 90,000 jobs a month on average so far this year, well below the 125,000 needed monthly just to keep up with population growth, let alone recover the eight million jobs lost during the recession. Two-thirds of the private-sector job creation this year occurred in March and April, when the economy's trajectory appeared stronger."

"It's a double whammy because it causes people to take a psychological step back," said Tig Gilliam, chief executive of Adecco Group North America, the staffing firm. "Now, it looks like not only has the economy slowed, but maybe it wasn't as good when it was originally reported as we thought."

OKR: LOL ONLY drink Guiness when served in a half full glass with a shot of Bailey's Irish Cream dropped down into it..... why?

I can drink it if I have to... lol

rr3yv0

As pointed out in the study, 95% died in each trial. The 5% that survived were muted and able to withstand much lower temperatures than their ancestors, At that point they became a new, sslightly different, better adapted species. Its an excellent illustration of how climate change can trigger the evolutionary process. The climate changes dramatically, mutations begin to occur, natural selection chooses those mutations which best contribute to survival of the organism and continuation of the biological line.

Its an interesting study and if it survives peer review, repetition with the same results done independently, then we can begin to draw some interesting conclusions from it.

"Climate change sparks 'quickest evolution ever'"

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0807/climate...

Its interesting to be able to observe and measure the evolutionary process while it is occuring.

"When taxes actually go up, when energy actually becomes more expensive, and when the monstrosity that is Obamacare actually takes effect, the name 'Obama' will be worse than 'Herbert Hoover.'" -Rush

"If these people think that they can run against George W. Bush, then that is the single biggest indication of just how stupid they think every one of us happens to be. Obama inherited a deficit that he voted for." -Rush

When a person is able to stay in office and make a career of the 'service job' then they are more and more likely to become corrupted by the power and money.

For no other reason, there should be term limits AND their pay and compensation should not set them up for life, they should be required to EARN their own living once they are done serving back amongst the common folk that they represented. THIS would give them the fear of their constituents, knowing that they would have to depend on their neighbors when they conduct their business back home.

nanadot... why do they need another tax on stocks... if you make money you pay taxes already.

NanaDot

That idea about taxing the filthy, rich capitalists on Wall Street 1/4 cent per transaction is an excellent idea.

I think a lot of folks would support that.

OKR - Or how about ending the lifetime salaries and perks for ousted members of Congress?

Another possible solution to our Social Security Retirement program funding...

...We can eliminate the ceiling on income subject to Social Security taxes. Its time the rich start paying their fair share.

I believe that would entirely eliminate the solvency problem.

However, there are other solutions as well.

We could for example cut our bloated, unnecessary Pentagon budget. Stop these wars and use the money we would spend on these wars to fund Social Security.

We could also look for other sources of taxes. Some of the Western States are well poised to legalize cannabis for recreational use by adults 21 and over. We should definately capitalize on that. If we legalize recreational use of cannabis for adults 21 of age and older (with sever penalties for any adult making it available to anyone under 21) at the federal level, we could then apply a federal tax on it in any State that legalizes it and in all U.S. territories that legalize it with a portion going to help fund Social Security.

Those are 3 possibilities.

I like to think in the terms once put forth by the late, great John Lennon..."There are no problems...only solutions." We can solve this problem with out raising income taxes and with out raising Social Security taxes and see this highly successful retirment program continue to help our senior citizens for many generations to come.

I'm with Nanodot, Pay back what it's owed, and leave it alone! I think i heard or read, it's owed 3 Trillion?

so - it's official

social security is broke - in the red - capput - drained - sucked dry - for the first time in 35 years.

any suggestion from the right, left, or down-under how to fix the problem?

zeke

And news - would love to raise a glass with you, too!

More'n welcome News. Guiness Stout is my favorite as tis my wife's. I do think it makes a great substitute for consomme when consumed cold. We have a domestic difference of opinion on that finer point. ;)

Oklahoma Reader and NanaDot,

If you have room for 3, Guiness Stout is my favorite beer...

More Obamadness.

It is the position of the Obama Administration that U.S. citizens can become targets of assassination, and be killed without any legal proceedings on behalf of said citizens prior to the said administrative decision. Further, criminal charges may be filed against any U.S. attorney that attempts to represent said U.S. citizen.

Even the Bush Administration did not go that far.

http://www.americablog.com/2010/08/obama...

Here is another very disappointing move by President Obama. He is subsidizing corporate America by paying for the training of three thousand IT workers in southeast Asia so that our corporations can take advantage of giving them jobs at low foreign wages.

What happened to all his talk about bringing jobs back to America? http://www.commondreams.org/headline/201...

Jobless claims raise doubts about economy

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE65...

Unexpected REALLY!!!!

Why Young People are Liberals

Everybody in a minority is a victim according to the left. One of the reasons why young people are liberal is because they're children. Children are used to being taken care of, and liberalism promises to take care of you. The State is going to take care of you. Liberalism means being a child of the State. Liberalism means turning your life over to your rulers and so forth. It's easier. I once told you liberalism is the most gutless choice you can make. It's the easiest thing in life you can do is be a liberal. But a human, even at age 21, most of them can't take care of themselves. And they don't expect to have to. That's why it's easy being a liberal.

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/s...

Edward Current sets liberals straight:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZRyXkZE9...

You might like this one rr3yv0. Its pretty funny.

Xray,

Capitalism is merely an economic system one step beyond Feudalism...and it didn't fall far from the tree.

Economic systems evolve. Karl Marx believed that Socialism is the natural, next step of economic evolotion along the economic scale.

What the next economic system to replace capitalism is -- is anyone's guess, but one thing is for sure, given enough time Capitalism will be replaced by a more effcient, more productive, and more equitable economic system that will be distinctly different from Capitalism.

Capitalism has serious flaws...beginning with the fact that Capitalism only works for some of the members of a society...but not all the members of that society. Some are left out altogether. A system like that cannot last in a World that is growing ever more democratic. The masses won't forever tolerate being left out of the economic system. As democracy rises around the World, so does the power of the economically deprived masses of poor.

So its probably not fair for anyone to ask anyone else to marry the notion of Capitalism being the only possible economic system we have. Economic systems change with time. Feudalsim gave way to capitalism and indeed Capitalism will give way to a new economic system. Capitalism will ultimately cease to be used any place on Earth.

If anyone thinks Obama can snap his fingers and thing are better in a few Months, have a blank spot in their head and you know it? That Poor Pathic Pea brain BUSH and the rest of his, not going too comply with the Consatitution, or anything else Thugs! ( the ones who are still there!) Should go in there and carry them all out to a garbage truck and dump it in the sewer! You can make all excusies for them you want , but the fact is they are as bad as the mob,and with the decission they make could starve or drive People into something that would ruin their lives forever,and they could care less,they are evil men and every man woman & child should see it! These people are descusting!Not all but enought on both sides!

xray and john I agree with you. Where used to work at a place and if you got hurt on the job because of the union we had to give the employee light duty. This was never fair to the employees that come to work everyday and done their job because they got paid the same but couldn't perform to full capacity. I always called it my sick, lame and lazy section. Then you would have someone get hurt off the job and would bring in a dr note describing their medical restrictions and they could request limited duty work if we had any available. The funny thing was if you told them you didn't have limited duty work that they would have to use their sick leave it was amazing how quickly they would heal and bring in another dr note saying they could come back at full duty. Just like a lot people we have on entitlements and unemployment now if we would cut them off you would be amazed at how many could get off their can and get a job.

news... you know as well as anyone else that it not capitalism failing but the ineptness of the government, its failure to uphold its laws, the failure of the government because of its fraud, waste and abuse by the highest of politicians, the failure of the system to function because of bribe money from 1000s of special interest groups and the unwillingness of any politician to stand up and fight for what is right instead of what pads their pocket...

LOL try and get a grip and take a stab at viewing reality not some theoretical concept of economics, none of which are ever totally correct or applicable.

rr3yv0

Unlike many of my collegues, I never predicted a Summer of recovery. In fact, I predicted continued, long-term decrease in real consumption, continued high unemployment, along with other economic factors keeping pressure on a rapidly deflating economy.

So...how is that capitalism working out for ya?

Stimulus dollars at work. How's that summer of recovery workin for ya!!!

http://coburn.senate.gov/public//index.c...

Evenin' my friend.

rr3 - so you want the US to become a theocratic dictatorship like Saudi Arabia?

I agree John we have elected the enemy.

JHH - Tolerance IS a value about which one holds convictions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toleration

The Terrorists Win: NYC Panel Votes 9-0 for Ground Zero Mosque

You know what this is? Everybody's falling for this notion that there's Muslim outreach going on. This is not Muslim outreach. They're planting the flag of victory with this mosque. That's what they're doing. Opening a mosque at Ground Zero? That says we won. That's what's going on here.

I'm wondering if they'd be willing to build a synagogue at Mecca?

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/s...

A New iPhone Factory Hires 200,000 in China as Obama Economy "Recovers". So how's that summer of recovery workin for ya!!!!

Pending home sales sink 2.6 percent in June

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/arti...

Factory orders drop for second straight month

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/arti...

Welcome to Obamaville people working exactly as planned for all the Obamamaniacs and Obamunist.

Midnite: According to WebMD: "What are the requirements for individuals to buy insurance?

Starting in 2014, a person who did not obtain coverage would pay a penalty of $95 or 1% of income, whichever is greater. That penalty would rise to $695 or 2.5% of income by 2016. The bill would exempt the lowest-income people from that insurance requirement.

Medicaid would be expanded to cover those under age 65 with an income of up to 133% of the federal poverty level (below $29, 327 for a family of four).

To make coverage more affordable, the legislation would offer premium subsidies for people with incomes more than 133% but less than 400% of the federal poverty level ($29,327 to $88, 200 for a family of four).

In addition, people in their 20s would have the option to buy a lower-cost "catastrophic" health plan."

Prop C will 'exempt' Missouri from the above requirements and from the subsidies. Your only option is private insurance under whatever 'rules' they dream up.

JHH the government can not fix the mess we are in, only the people have that potential.

JHH,

And then what? Millions going to lawyers and banks? What's that? Corporations are running the show? When did that happen? Must be just since Obama took office I'm guessing.

Guess who got rich off the Iraq war.

As much as this all may be BS, if they're are gonna take my money anyway, at least maybe it will help to allevaite someone's suffering instead of inflicting it.

JHH,

"Death Panels?" Really? Funny, you don't look like Sarah Palin. News flash, death panels, as you like to refer to them have been around for years as they are in fact the insurance companies.

Who's trying to scare who?

It sounds to me like argument in favor of Prop C comes down to this: states' rights trump personal responsibility.

I'm voting for personal responsibility. Still looks to me like health reforms will make the system more fair and more efficient. I'm voting No.

Wrong Speakout...sorry.

14 defining characteristics of fascism:

http://www.rense.com/general37/char.htm

Is Fascism from the extreme right a possibility?