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Speak Out [politics] August 2 to September 8, 2010

Monday, August 2, 2010

This forum is for discussing political issues -- local, state, national or international. The same standards of behavior apply as are spelled out on our home page in the introduction to Speak Out.

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Weimar Amerika won't last long. http://www.youtube.com/rabbletv#p/a/u/0/...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Nov 14, 2010, at 12:03 AM

New Across I read some of your posts and think that the Democrat news should pay you to write colums for their paper because unlike Mrs. xray and others you seem to care about people.However a big Republican gain we set this country back and give a win to the side of hate.

The right is scared of others that are different religions,race, and sexual preferences. And now more than ever they promote prejucice and hatred, so I ask myself and others as Americans when have these things became okay to spread? To top it off the right wing even votes against its own ideas just for political gain to go against the president, which makes them hypocrits.They would rather see America fail than have President Obama win another term. They would deny the middle class tax cuts if the rich cant have them. ARE THESE TYPES OF PEOPLE WORTHY OF RUNNIG THE GOVERNMENT? They go out of their way to point out that Obama is raising the defcit, but did you hear any of this from them when Bush was president? Every senate republican voted against the stimulus bill, but all except one requested special funding projects for their state. Now they claim they voted against it, but they take credit for the money. We cant sit back and let hate, prejudice, and discrimination take over the country.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Tue, Sep 14, 2010, at 10:16 PM

Jhh I guess I will be patient with your contentious nit picking.

First of all you should have noted no quotation marks on the second sentence which was a declaritive sentence. I did not choose to give the second of a two short sentences statement a seperate paragraph because it shows up with a gap on this blog.

As to who made me the arbiter as to what is patriotic that is easy to answer. No one. It is my opinion which comes from my free will. You may believe that your opinion is on loan from God. That is another opinion.

Is that enough for you regarding this ridiculous exchange?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Sep 8, 2010, at 12:21 PM

rr3yv0

I am only interested in objective, scientifically derrived evidence...not speculation.

Regarding President Obama and the Democrats in Congress, most of us on the left also share your frustration. In fact, many of us on the left feel he and the Democrats really let us down.

Many of us worked very hard to give the White House and the Congress to the Democrats. We gave them the tools they needed to socialize medicine, bring back the WPA and the CCC, end the wars, cut military spending, increase spending on social programs that help that poor and middle class, increase taxes on the very richest 10% of Americans, strengthen civil rights and privacy rights, and prosecute Bush and Cheney for war crimes.

The Dems seem to have wasted the enormous political capital we on the left helped provide to them, and many of us are now looking at the possible emergence of a viable third party that would elimnate the monopoly the Republicans and the Democrats (Unified Fascist Party would be a better description of the Republicans and Democrats) have on our Government.

A big Republican win this November would go a long way to futhering our movement on the left and furthering our goals in that regard. Many of us on the left think a big Republican win would help create an environment conducive to launching a massive push towards socialism and an end to capitalist tyrrany in America.

I guess you could say that in a sense the Republicans are the Socialist movement's best friend because when the Republicans are in power they do so many bad things and fail so well that they actually increase our numbers on the left very significantly. We on the left know we can count on the Republicans to fail miserably every time and the Republicans are our best recruiting tool.

So while many of us on the left will be voting the lessor of 2 evils (democrat), I am hoping for a big Republican win in November so that the American People will be reminded of why we fired the Republicans in the first place.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Sep 8, 2010, at 8:44 AM

I only rarely listen to "the Savage Nation" and when I do I find that I sometimes agree but usually end up ticked off about something. I caught a few minutes last night and found a bit he did about his fathers boyhood advice concerning politics to be fairly accurate.

"If a Democrat is President then he is a crook and a liar. The Republicans will tell the country how much of a crook and a liar he is and how honest they will make government when they are elected to replace him. Eventually, a Republican will be elected. He will be a crook and a liar. The Democrats will then tell the country how much of a crook and a liar he is and how honest they will make government when they are elected to replace him. Repeat over and over"

Although I placed that in quotes, it wasn't a direct quote, only repeated from the radio last night to the best of my memory.

-- Posted by Philemon on Wed, Sep 8, 2010, at 8:33 AM

Barack Obama's Get-Even-With-'Em-ism is an Historic Failure

Barack Obama is the biggest presidential failure since James Buchanan.

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/s...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Sep 8, 2010, at 7:09 AM

News if you were open to the idea then what I and others believe would not be irrational or senseless. Seems that God knew before you were born the you would see the evidence and still not believe. Just like the evidence that Democrats played a major role as to the direction this country is headed but you still don't believe. They have been in charge of Congress for almost 4 years with a majority that the Republicans couldn't stop if they wanted to. What have they done to make things better?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Sep 8, 2010, at 7:03 AM

Sorry news but I wasn't in Marshall yesterday darn the luck.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Sep 8, 2010, at 6:54 AM

rr3

I was in Marshall yesterday. I looked for ya mate. Yeah I did. I stood around the square for at least an hour but I didn't see ya anywhere mate lol lol lol...

I was hoping to buy you a cup of coffee and engage in a good, healthy debate with you one on one, but alas you were no where to be seen...lol.

As to your claim that I assume there is no God, I have never made any such assumption. In fact, I am very open to the idea. I merely point out that there is no scientific evidence to support the hypothisis of the existance of a God, Goddess, Gods, ghosts, ghoolies, Santa, or the Easter Bunny.

I am not opposed to religion at all. I think religion plays an important role in our society. Religion does help keep many psycopaths from running wild in the streets, relgious charities help feed many of the poor, and religion tends to help foster compassion for our fellow man....all very good things.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Sep 8, 2010, at 6:48 AM

Under Obama, Only the Rich Are Doing Well! We Want Trickle-Down!

The greed in this society is to be found in Washington DC by people who are using other people's money to increase their own lifestyles.

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/s...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Sep 8, 2010, at 6:40 AM

JHH

Perhaps you should take your complaints about the Aussies to the Aussies. I really don't care what you think of them, and in fact I would be willing to bet you have never even been there. In addition, I think you would find the Aussies could not care less what your opinion of them is. After all, they are a soverign Nation and the opinion of some obscure yank means nothing to them.

As to my American citizenship, it is not up for debate. My American citizenship is mine for life, cannot be revoked, and remains mine no matter what soil I happen to be standing on. Get used to it.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Sep 8, 2010, at 6:30 AM

Reread it Jhh. You will figure it out. Hint, two independent sentences.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Sep 7, 2010, at 11:27 PM

john henry's hammer

I live in both the United States and Australia.

I am a natural born citizen of the United States (Kansas City, MO), raised in Marshall and Chicago (Illinois). My family goes way back in our American history (at least as early as 1750). I am an American -- pure born and purely bred...American through and through and we Americans do not check our American citizenship (or our rights) at the door when we happen to go to or reside in another nation.

As to Australia and NAZIS, I checked with my resident Australian expert (my wife). She tells me that yes some NAZIS did sneek into Australia after WW2 and United States as well. In addition she accurately points out that in fact many former NAZIS were directly employed by the United States after the war and worked in both the CIA and the NASA program. So it seems the pot is again calling the kettle black.

Finally, Australia has the United States to thank for its founding. Prior to 1787, Great Britain sent their political prisoners to the American Colonies. After the end of our American War of Independence, the Brits sent the prisoners to Australia. In fact you may even be one of the decendents of the many political prisoners the Brits sent to the USA. So again, it seems we have a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Sep 7, 2010, at 10:28 PM

Eight Hundred Twelve comments. The page turned on 2 Aug 2010.

Perhaps, it is time to reboot? Did NA leave his heart in SF?

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Tue, Sep 7, 2010, at 8:36 PM

Exactly what do you mean by this, JHH?:

"I wonder is Gerald Gardner, or Anton Lavey be the choice of preference for so many? There does seem to be several covens around an about."

Satanists? Covens? Witches? Really? Right here in Saline County? What in the world does that have to do with anything that's being talked about here? Oh, wait. I know. You're in the mood to stir up another pointless argument, you sly dog.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, Sep 7, 2010, at 4:51 PM

Organization? You guys peek under any old leaf and see a conspiracy. This one is a product of your own fevered imaginations. I'm just sittin' here at home, mindin' my own business, posting when I feel like it, without regard to anything NanaDot or news across has to say. And as for anything that was deleted, I didn't even see it, so I couldn't very well complain about it, now could I?

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, Sep 7, 2010, at 4:29 PM

Jhh Endangering our troops is unpatriotic. It is bad enough that we don't truly support them, mostly ignore them, in this particular war.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Sep 7, 2010, at 3:56 PM

News I guess I can take your assumption that God doesn't exist as irrational and makes no sense.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Sep 7, 2010, at 1:32 PM

JJH

Yes many political prisoners were sent to my Country by the British, but that changed after our War of Independence which began in 1776. After my Country gained its independence, the Brits then began sending the political prisoners to Australia.

As to NAZIS in Australia....I have never heard of that happening before and the Aussies say it isn't so...I think perhaps you are confused...again.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Sep 7, 2010, at 8:25 AM

rr3yv0

Your assumption that God exists because mankind speculates on God's existance is part of the "circular logic" typically eminating from religion. It is irrational and makes no sense.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Sep 7, 2010, at 8:16 AM

Thanks Nan...that was a good article.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Sep 7, 2010, at 8:06 AM

Thanks for the heads up John, I will keep my Armor of God on. Funny how the the ones that don't want to discuss God are always bringing him up just by the mere mention of the name. If there is no God why does it merit discussion? We must remember John unbelievers are unarmed in the battle for truth.

Federal agents that are trained to detect counterfeit money only study the real thing so when they are out in the field they can immediately detect a counterfeit. The same holds true if we study the truth, the Word of God then when we are out in the world we can immediately detect a lie. If you don't know the truth you can be led to believe anything.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Sep 7, 2010, at 3:37 AM

There are Republicans that many Democrats would consider supporting. At this link is one. http://thinkprogress.org/2010/09/03/hage...

Are there Democrats that many Republicans would consider supporting?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Sep 7, 2010, at 12:43 AM

General Petraeus says knock off the harassment, and hatred of Muslims, and their religion. It is endangering our troops, and therefore is unpatriotic.

http://www.aolnews.com/surge-desk/articl...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Sep 7, 2010, at 12:26 AM

"Some may call a dual citizen a traitor too. But who's listening?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Sep 6, 2010, at 8:06 AM"

Who would ever call a dual citizen a traitor, and expect any other than a fool to listen?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Sep 6, 2010, at 11:56 PM

EPA TO ISSUE NEW CLIMATE RULES WITHOUT CONGRESS

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/epa-to-i...

Scroll down and check the post by PSYCHOSIS

Posted on September 5, 2010 at 10:30pm

Are you a Democrat, a Republican, or a Redneck?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Sep 6, 2010, at 8:27 PM

Very good Kathy who gave it to you?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Sep 6, 2010, at 8:16 PM

Nope, I get to keep mine. God doesn't need it.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Mon, Sep 6, 2010, at 7:30 PM

DEMOCRATS INTENTIONALLY SET UP OBAMACARE TO FAIL

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/sen-cobu...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Sep 6, 2010, at 7:29 PM

Isn't yours Kathy?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Sep 6, 2010, at 6:33 PM

Your talent is on loan from God??? I can't think of anything less true.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Mon, Sep 6, 2010, at 5:32 PM

Nanodot: Thanks for sharing the Hawkins article!

-- Posted by Jo on Mon, Sep 6, 2010, at 1:23 PM

rr3 you said: "Since we are on the subject of fairness.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Sep 5, 2010, at 9:29 AM "

Now you say you had said nothing about fairness when I replied to that post.

Some may choose to call you a revisionist. Not me, I give you the benefit of the doubt on that one. I think you just don't remember what you say from one comment to the next.

ROTFLMAO.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Sep 6, 2010, at 11:23 AM

To be fair though, in terms of spelling I too should learn to use a dictionary lol.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Sep 6, 2010, at 8:12 AM

Thats ok news you don't answer questions either. Especially when confronted with truth.

Remember my talent is on loan from God.

CAPITALISM IS BOSS!!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Sep 6, 2010, at 8:11 AM

rr3yv0

Traitor? lol lol lol...for moving to our closest alied nation??? lol lol lol...

I suggest you learn to use a dictionary.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Sep 6, 2010, at 8:10 AM

Hope you enjoy your trip in this foreign land news.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Sep 6, 2010, at 8:07 AM

rr3yv0

Floundering????....lol lol lol...

OKR and Nanna are both quite brilliant...they don't need my help to stomp your arguments lol lol lol...but I do like adding my 2 cents anyway.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Sep 6, 2010, at 8:07 AM

Some may call a dual citizen a traitor too. But who's listening? That statement ought to let you cut and paste your whole litany of arguments that we have heard before. (yawn)

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Sep 6, 2010, at 8:06 AM

rr3yv0

Yes many American NAZIs call themselves many things and wear many hats but they all practice and support facist policies. I don't put a lot of stock in what they call themselves.

If it gooseteps like a NAZI and it zieg heils like a NAZI...it probably is a NAZI.

She can pur her boots in and overn and call them bisquits...but they are still boots.

She can call herself a Republican and a Governor....but her political philosophy appears to be something right out of "Mein Komf."

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Sep 6, 2010, at 8:01 AM

Good thing your back news, okr and nana have been floundering since you went on vacation.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Sep 6, 2010, at 8:00 AM

I think I addressed okr in that post not news, but I am one of those simple minded folks you affectionately refer to.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Sep 6, 2010, at 7:55 AM

rr3yv0

It is not OKR's responsibility to make your argument for you. It is not his responsibility to answer your questions. Defending your thesis is your responsibility. State your thesis, defend your thesis, and OKR will rebutt your thesis if he chooses to do so.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Sep 6, 2010, at 7:50 AM

Is that kind of like admitting to not paying taxes until you are caught? You still didn't answer the question news. Would you have given a Democrat a pass on such a statement? They have been lying for years and you still believe. What faith?

A nazi? I thought she was the governor of Arizona? Maybe I'm wrong?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Sep 6, 2010, at 7:38 AM

rr3yv0

That NAZI didn't admit to anything voluntarily. She didnt admit her lying until she was cornered by her opponent who had the transcripts of her lies. Faced with documented evidence, she had no choice but to admit her statement was not true and intentional.

No way would I vote for a party that regularly lies to me and my fellow American voters as the Republicans have done many, many times and continue to do so now.

THE PARTY OF NO! HAS GOT TO GO!

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Sep 6, 2010, at 7:29 AM

Good post xray about fairness I think you described it perfectly but some still don't understand.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Sep 6, 2010, at 6:43 AM

News she admitted in the article she was wrong if that had been a Democrat you would have given them a pass. Wouldn't you? Go ahead and vote for the enemy then later I can say see I told you so.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Sep 6, 2010, at 6:38 AM

You are right okr you have a failure to communicate. You failed to answer any questions.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Sep 6, 2010, at 6:32 AM

Thanks Nan!

Yeah I am still on vacation. I was in Sanfrancisco last week and I had a great time. Sanfrancisco is a great city!!

My journey continues lol...

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Sep 6, 2010, at 6:20 AM

Republicans Caught Lying Again:

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/09/tale-...

Do we really want to put these folks into power again? Is it ok for Republicans to tell barefaced lies?

This independent voter will be voting straight Democrat ticket. This independent voter was taught to believe lying to gain public office and lying to get partisian legislation passed is just plain wrong.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Sep 6, 2010, at 12:25 AM

rr3, and Xray you guys astound me. You get called on something, have nothing really to say in retort, but never can admit "you have a point". Instead you turn it into a semantics issue. How about next time you address what you mean when you say "fair" before continuing your polemic. It may save a lot of time. What I said certainly fits the word fair as it is broadly defined.

If you are thinking a very narrow definition of whatever concept you are promoting announce that narrow definition. People will understand you muuch better. "What we have here is a failure to communicate." ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Sep 6, 2010, at 12:06 AM

I know Nanadot will say that the big bad evil corporations are unfair and thus they should be regulated.... oh they are horrible and they are evil and all they want to do is take away all the money from all the rest of the people so that they can live in a mansion and look down on the rest of us and they dont care about their workers and all they want is to pay people as little as they can....

So? Lets say that some corporations do. So what? Dont people have a choice to NOT work there and NOT buy things from them?

Next Nanadot will say that we need more and more and more rules and regulations to take away what that business has earned by providing a good or service that people demand, but who is making the rules and regs and arent the politicians corrupt and the isnt the political game corrupted by the insane amounts of money that float around through the system? So how can you trust the government more than the corporations or the evil job creaters in our nation? It makes no sense.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Sep 5, 2010, at 9:35 PM

Most times the government tries to legislate fairness or justice or whatever other name they try to give it, they create more and more problems for other people and society.

Life should not be about trying to make each and every detail of life about being fair or equal but allowing you to make your own CHOICES and learn to overcome the obstacles that are not fair nor equally dispersed.

Life is not fair, not every person has instinctual business sense, or the same ability to do math or scientific research. Not everyone can be a footbal player or movie star or the nations's best architect. Every brain functions differently, the same for everyone's body. NATURE provides some people with cancer and others dont get it all with the same exposures to the same things within the environment. Some people have heart attacks or stroks and others do not. Some live to 50 some to 100, some die at birth. Life is not fair and you cannot make it fair.

Even when the amendments were changed to where black people were equal under law or women could vote, life still is not fair. Even if we magically snapped our fingers and America did not have one single race issue, life would not be fair and there would be problems that each person from all races and life styles would have to over come IF they CHOOSE to be motivated and make the sacrifices, personally, to over come them.

Instead what we have today is the entitlement slave class that the government provides just enough for that they are dependent on the government for ALL their choices because it is the easy way out.

How many people do we have to see with their arms cut off that STILL play the piano or other musical instruments or blind people that are successes in life through hard work before we realize that we need to teach people the individual work ethic, how to be motivated, and the personal responsibility needed to deal with the UNFAIRNESS of life instead of just creating more and more easy way outs for them to sit back and not take care of their own life and that of the family that they may have created?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Sep 5, 2010, at 9:30 PM

OKR: Changing the constitution to allow blacks or women to vote was not fairness really. It was about altering a problem with the Constitution/Amendments that caused the GOVERNMENt to infringe on the NATURAL rights of all men/women of all races. Just because they changed the law to let women vote does not mean that all of a sudden life was fair.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Sep 5, 2010, at 9:18 PM

Looking back at my Viet Nam post it didn't mention anything about fairness but nonetheless is a good discussion topic okr.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Sep 5, 2010, at 6:05 PM

Okr you say fairness has been legislated but who determines whether it is fair or not? Whomever that is, is it fair for them to make that determination? No it can't be legislated. Giving women and blacks the right to vote was the right thing to do it didn't matter if it was fair.

Is affirmative action fair? Giving one race an advantage over another is that fair? I don't think so. That's why we have God given inalienable rights as people regardless of our race or political affiliation.

Is freedom of speech fair? When a majority of the news media carry the water for the liberals and bash conservatives and we still have people in this country that listen to them. Is that fair?

Is it fair for me to disagree with you? Now we're getting somewhere.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Sep 5, 2010, at 6:00 PM

Wrong rr3. Your Viet Nam example had nothing to do with fairness. Was the Viet Nam war fair to the people of Viet Nam? Of course not. Or are you of the mind set that little yellow "furriners" don't count?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Sep 5, 2010, at 1:49 PM

Wrong Xray. Fairness can, and has been legislated, with considerable success. Otherwise women, and Blacks would not have the right to vote. There are many other examples. You are a bright guy therefore capable of filling in the remaining blanks.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Sep 5, 2010, at 1:42 PM

I wish someone would tell the business around town that if you are going to fly the American Flag at night that to respect the flag and put a light on it. I have talked to some of them and that did not help. If they want to fly the American Flag at night then respect the flag.

"OUR NATIONAL FLAG SHOULD BE DISPLAYED ON ALL DAYS THAT THERE IS NO DANGER THE WEATHER WILL DAMAGE IT. IT NOT ONLY SHOWS RESPECT FOR OUR NATIONAL SYMBOL, BUT PROLONGS THE LIFE OF THE American Flag. IT IS CUSTOMARY TO FLY THE FLAG FROM SUNRISE TO SUNSET ON BUILDINGS OR ON A STATIONARY FLAG POLE IN THE OPEN. HOWEVER, IT MAY ALSO BE FLOWN AT NIGHT IF IT IS PROPERLY ILLUMINATED."

This can be found at http://www.americanflagstore.com/etiquet....

I fly the American Flag 24/7 unless there is going to be storms. Yes it is well illuminated.

There are two flags that is flown at night on North Benton Ave and they are illuminated.

Maybe Eric can help with this, I sure hope so.

Thanks

-- Posted by slatermo on Sun, Sep 5, 2010, at 9:39 AM

The Vietnam War was a tragic and dismal failure -- if you believe what liberal historians and the media say about it.

But here's the politically incorrect truth: The Vietnam War was in fact the most important -- and successful -- campaign to defeat communism ever waged. Without the sacrifices made and the courage displayed by our military, the world might be a very different place today.

Thomas S. Winter

Editor in Chief, Human Events

Since we are on the subject of fairness.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Sep 5, 2010, at 9:29 AM

Izaak it would be nice if you would provide your source to back up your claims. Thanks. I think that would be fair don't you wtf?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Sep 5, 2010, at 9:23 AM

You're absolutely right xray that life is not fair I tell my kids that all the time. All kids should learn that, and now we are now seeing adults that never were taught that life is not fair. That's why they think the government is the answer to everything. Unfortunately we see examples of this daily. Look at politicians that want to tax the evil rich and they are also RICH! Oh I forgot evil rich politicians don't pay taxes. Thats just no FAIR is it?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Sep 5, 2010, at 9:15 AM

wtf I think your wrong I hit a home run. Cha Ching!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Sep 5, 2010, at 9:02 AM

Mr. Xray,

Am I to assume that post was directed at me for some reason?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Sep 5, 2010, at 7:32 AM

Since when is life just or fair? There is not possible way to legislate morality or ethics or fairness or to make enough laws that people cannot screw someone else over.

All laws and regulations do is prevent openness about what they are doing and gives them some legal standing tha they can use as justification for NOT making a better or safer product. If they meet the 'government' rules then that is all they HAVE to do to be safe from being held liable in court.

I agree that it is UNFAIR that walmart CEO makes a ton while people working there dont... BUT people work their and ACCEPT by CHOICE those wages. If they did not have enough people working they would raise the wages or shut down stores.

It is not fair that some CEOs of big business make a ton money in bonuses and stuff while some portion of their business lays people of. However, again life is not fair nor is it constant so a business has to absorb the ebbs and flows of the business cycle and sometimes to keep the rest of the business afloat while dealing with the bad economy you have to lay people off.

But the competition amongst big corporation CEOs is NO different than the insane and embarrassing pay that a sports player or movies and TV stars get paid is it? I mean the economy is bad and it is not MY fault so shouldnt I get to watch them play for free or a very cheap cut rate price and shouldnt the sports star take a pay cut? Or shouldnt the movie star work for free so I can feel like life is more fair? LOL

life and Fairness is a concept that is all about a selfish outlook on life. ME ME ME life is not fair and if I expect it to be fair then I will not be prepared to deal with the reality of life and then I will become a slave to the government and their entitlements.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Sep 5, 2010, at 5:25 AM

WTF... here is a novel idea...

Scientific fact states that the biological purpose of sex IS in fact to procreate. If we CHOOSE to ignore that fact and if we are unable to control our animal urges for the instant gratification that you get from sex, then we should also be aware and intelligent enough to understand that IF we get pregnant because we did not use birth control correctly, or with an antibiotic, or not at all, then it is not the government's fault, nor society's fault, nor your neighbor's fault that you are pregnant so no one but yourself and your partner should be punished because you cannot control your urges long enough to use protection prior to having a career that is adequate to support children

ALSO: Scientific Fact: Birth defects of a wide range of problems DO happen when you procreate. The Union of genes from one partner to another is not perfect and diseases and other types of problems DO happen when two people create a new life. IF you plan on having a child, then you have to understand, because we are intelligent human beings supposedly, that this IS a risk of pregnancy/birth and that we should be prepared to financially and emotionally deal with this outcome if it happens. IF it happens, then you made the CHOICE to have a child then that human being is your responsibility and you have the privelidge of caring for it for as long as it needs..... again not the fault of the government, nor not the responsibility of the government or your tax paying neighbors.

See the pattern of how life is? It is all about choices, using your common sense and intelligence to fully understand your choices and the outcomes of each option. I can say the same for dropping out of school, choosing to use drugs and alcohol and becoming an addict and any number of situations and choices that humans are involved in.

Life sucks, life is not fair, life is full of obstacles and choices. BUT it is not anyone's responsibility other than our own.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Sep 5, 2010, at 5:12 AM

nandot... the rich evil business owners that are getting rich that you seem to be SO jealous of would not be rich business owners if they did not provide a service or a product that you and I and millions of other people purchased.

Consumers have the power because they dont have to have a new cell phone every time Apple makes a new Iphone or a new computer and Lap Top or New TV and DVD player every time there is a new verions of any of these. We dont have to purchase $30K cars and trucks and we could purchase a fixer upper instead of brand new large house that has a three or four car garage around a golf course and its lake.

In fact, we dont have to do a lot of things but since our society and the world do, then people spend their money and the people that provide things to people make money.... that is horrible... sheesh how selfish of them to make money so they can provide people things they WANT and make a CHOICE to purchase.

Capitalism and Socialism and any other economic system are not to blame. Our society and our lack of morals, ethics and values in INDIVIDUALS is what is causing the problems.

Everything in our life is interconnected. IF almost all business ownwer, consumers, politicians, celebritys and every day citizens were responsbile for their own actions and lived by the golden rule then we would not have the problems we have and Capitalism would be just fine. Socialism not so much as it drains motivation and incentive and resources from the economy rewarding those with no incentive or motivation. So if we treated each other as we wanted to be treated and with consideration, AND we also acknowledged that life is NOT fair and fairness cannot be legislated and we put a great emphasis as a society on personal responsibility then all would be well.

Capitalism is not a living breathing system with a life of its own, it only functions efficiently to help society IF the people running it from the consumer, to the maker of goods, to the provider of services to the politicians, even lobbyists are all living with virtues and without the vices, if you refer back to Ethics classes.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Sep 5, 2010, at 5:02 AM

corporate death panels or government death panels? At least you have a choice of using a corporate private type insurance company, if the left has their way, we wont have a choice it will be all government run then we will ALL be forced to sway to the political winds about what they will and will not cover as for treatments, drugs, tests and anything else medical. Pretty soon the government panel/board will just have a check list and if they THINK you have a group of symptoms they will just prescibe a one size fits all treatment plan that any nurse or medic can prescribe for you and doctors will be irrelevant (Sarcasm I HOPE) but in reality the government is already determining that you cannot have some life saving drugs for cancer... they in the process of making all sorts of decisions for you.

I know you dont care....

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Sep 5, 2010, at 4:51 AM

Well said by somebody Izaak.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Sep 4, 2010, at 10:15 PM

Seventy one percent of the people still blame Bush for the economic problems. http://thinkprogress.org/2010/09/03/most...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Sep 4, 2010, at 10:12 PM

Who is More Conservative: Ronald Reagan or Barack Obama?

Reagan:

-Gave Amnesty to Illegal Immigrants

-Negotiated with Terrorists (Traded Arms for Hostages with Iran)

-Raised Taxes 11 times

-Negotiated with the "Evil Empire" without Pre-conditions

-Made a Decision to "Cut and Run" From Lebanon After Our Troops Were Attacked

-Highest tax bracket 50%

The bottom line is that, no matter what the reason, Obama seems to be in some important ways significantly to the right of Reagan on the political spectrum. If Reagan ordered the execution of US citizens abroad, he might have been impeached. If Obama tried to give undocumented immigrants blanket amnesty the way Reagan did, he might be impeached.

I don't think Obama is a hard right-winger. It's just that the political establishment in this country has moved so far to the right (though not the public, according to polls on specific issues) that as a natural politician when he goes to appease them, he is solidly center-right on the spectrum.

And the political line has moved so far that if Reagan tried to run as a Republican now he would be the laughing stock of the party. Rush Limbaugh would tear him to shreds and Bill Kristol would say he is Neville Chamberlain. He would be run out of town as a tax-raising, amnesty giving, terrorist negotiating, cut and run no-good lib who hates the troops.

ALL ABOVE QUOTED FROM ANOTHER SOURCE , I THOUGHT IT WAS AN INTERESTING POINT.

-- Posted by izaak on Sat, Sep 4, 2010, at 9:55 PM

rr3yv0,

Before you accuse me of not doing my homework you may want to consider that the next time you plagerize someone else's statement, you may want to credit the writer or readers such as myself might just think they are actually your statements and comment as such. Swing and a miss, pal.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Sep 4, 2010, at 9:01 PM

"Sometimes you can't get rid of bad ideas until you get rid of their purveyors. November 2nd is only the beginning. It's the first chapter in trying to take back the country." -Davis

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Sep 4, 2010, at 7:08 PM

"If we're the Party of No, good for us! Saying no to Obamacare means saying yes to health care reform that makes sense. Saying no to insane spending means saying yes to a sensible size of government. Saying no to punitive taxation means saying yes to a tax policy that does not blister you for succeeding or dissuade business and individual entrepreneurship. Saying no to activist judges means saying yes to judges who will obey the Constitution." -Davis

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Sep 4, 2010, at 7:06 PM

The first sentence in your post wtf is incorrect in came from Nana so I think you need to do your homework. I took Nana's quote and added the part about Obamacare which made Nana's quote true.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Sep 4, 2010, at 6:31 PM

rr3yv0 said,

"Yeah - you're right - what do we need with all those useless old people, orphans, cripples, 'tards - they are a real drain... just cut 'em off and let'em fend for themselves...

Obamacare is on the way to take care of that."

Can you back up that assertion with any facts or are you spouting personal speculation?

Keep in mind some of the bugetary numbers that have you so freaked out is because they are now including the on going cost of Iraq and Afghanistan in those numbers. Something his predecessor would conveniently leave out. Presidant Obama was also left one hell of a mess to clean up, regardless of who's fault it was, it's still a mess. In your infinite wisdom, rr3yv0, what would you do to fix the problems? I really see nothing in the way of help or even good ideas coming from the republicans. Just more demonization and division in the hope to curry votes. I certainly have seen nothing from them that would suggest they really care about the greater good. Simply having a government is an act of socialism so that dog won't really hunt.

It's ok for you to dislike or even hate the president but I truly question your reasons why. Perhaps it's something else, maybe even something subconcious?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Sep 4, 2010, at 10:44 AM

Mikelh you wouldn't be in the way at all join in anytime that is the beauty of the this column. I'm not real sure about the point you were getting at but our interstate highway system being mostly supported and maintained by user fees and federal dollars seems to work pretty well. They provide evacuation routes for natural disasters and possible man-made disasters. Also in case of a domestic attack on our country they would allow our military quick efficient routes to travel. I think maintaining them is in the best interest of our national security.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Sep 4, 2010, at 6:27 AM

rr3yvo, I sure hate to get in the way of yours and NanaDots discussion of slave labor, billionaires, and trillionaires, so I'll say thank you for sharing your view on the interstate highway system. Even though I do not see the benefit to our national security today, I do understand and recognize the value placed on that issue at the time construction began. As to whether or not it could have come about without Big Brother, I guess that is open to debate. Good evening to you.

-- Posted by mikelh on Fri, Sep 3, 2010, at 10:19 PM

What would God say about capitalism?

God has made a significant investment in us, and he expects a return. But he gives us freedom and rewards as the risk taker. That is the essence of a true capitalist.

http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/st...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Sep 3, 2010, at 10:16 PM

Still don't know what np means but Nana you are really coming around. I like it CAPITALISM IS BOSS!!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Sep 3, 2010, at 10:10 PM

What the heck does np mean Nana.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Sep 3, 2010, at 9:54 PM

Slavery continues today in California

http://www.modbee.com/2009/01/04/552440/...

From a very nice left coast Democratic state!!! How could this go on with Democrats in charge?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Sep 3, 2010, at 9:12 PM

We need more billionaires hey maybe some trillionaires. Oh let's see who is responsible for spending over a trillion dollars but never earned a penny of it? Three guesses OBAMA! OBAMA! OBAMA!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Sep 3, 2010, at 9:01 PM

Yeah - you're right - what do we need with all those useless old people, orphans, cripples, 'tards - they are a real drain... just cut 'em off and let'em fend for themselves...

Obamacare is on the way to take care of that.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Sep 3, 2010, at 8:57 PM

Nana you said you were not going to address me again what changed?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Sep 3, 2010, at 8:56 PM

Hey Nana what does your story have to do with the GOP killing SS? I missed any reference in there to that effect. Please clarify!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Sep 3, 2010, at 8:55 PM

Slavery in the 21st Century

http://www.freedomcenter.org/slavery-tod...

Does it make any difference Nana if the owners or perpetrators of slavery are Democrat or Republican? Does it matter what party they donate to? Does that make it any more right or wrong? No I think it still makes it wrong! Surprised to hear that from someone who thinks CAPITALISM IS BOSS???

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Sep 3, 2010, at 8:50 PM

Hey Nana is that any different then giving people entitlements and enslaving them to the government dole or are you all for that?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Sep 3, 2010, at 8:43 PM

Eisenhower had the vision to see the potential of a super highway system to connect all parts of the country. Also seen the benefit to our national security I think it is one thing the feds have done well. I know I enjoy the convenience to jump in my car and drive anywhere in the country and be assured from state to state that the roads are good.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Sep 3, 2010, at 8:39 PM

You're slipping rr3. Now you are being questioned from the right. Maybe there is hope for you.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Sep 3, 2010, at 7:19 PM

rr3yvo, May I ask why you feel that our current road system could not exist except for "Big Brother"?

-- Posted by mikelh on Fri, Sep 3, 2010, at 6:59 PM

Think the Tea Party is BS?

Then you have got to have one of these!

http://www.zazzle.com/stixx3969

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Sep 3, 2010, at 5:27 PM

Why Government Spending Does Not Stimulate Economic Growth: Answering the Critics

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Reports...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Sep 3, 2010, at 2:51 PM

Smart Dog I didn't take anything negative. I would like to see government as a body to help with infrastructure. We couldn't have our current road system without federal government. Our current trends of bailouts tells me if a company is too big to fail then they are too big that should have been an oversight of the government. I think if these companies would have been allowed to go bankrupt then we would probably already be on the upswing out of this mess. There is a demand for cars and it doesn't matter who builds them the demand would have been met and any workers put out of a job temporarily would already be back to work. An example of something the government should have stayed out of. Government spending has put deeper in the depression then if they would have stayed out of it.

We need government control over certain things and sometimes there is a fine line so it will never be perfect. I think when the smoke clears and the government quits meddling then the free market will take over and people will go back to work. I never understood punishing small business and corporations when they put people to work. Do you want a 100 small business and employees paying taxes or would it be better to cut taxes 50% and have 1000 small business and employees paying taxes. 50% less taxes per business or individual but 10 times the business or people paying taxes. According to my math that equals roughly five times the revenue to the government. Thats over simplified but thats what Reagen did and it worked but he or Congress would not control spending. They said wow all this money we got to spend it stupidly. You know B.I.O.B.(blame it on Bush)

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Sep 2, 2010, at 5:42 PM

Didn't mean 'somewhat far right' in a negative way.

You have some valid points regarding corruption and waste on the part of governments.

Now, regarding the power thing, all governments, in all forms require the consent of the governed. Even totalitarian forms, as they just obtain consent via fear of reprisal.

Democracies must spend lots of effort 'convincing' the governed that government is necessary in order to exist in the first place.

This is pretty much an oversimplified summary of the fact that all governments exist to exercise control of the masses. That being the case, government must brainwash the masses into believing that thier system is what is for the best.

Given that these principles are fundamental to all governments in all forms, where is the line as to when the appropriate amount of control, or brainwashing to gain control, has been reached? Who gets to decide where that line is?

Is the amount of control allowed to change with societal development, or is it to be a firm level, with no change to account for technology, education level of the masses, or societal reform (aka - ending slavery, burnings-at-the-stake, et al)?

As far as the other multiude of sins in your post, I am sort of a one thing at a time dog.

-- Posted by Smart Dog on Thu, Sep 2, 2010, at 1:58 PM

Wow Smart Dog that's a first 'somewhat far right' never heard of that one. I would probably have to say government really went on steroids when they implemented the income tax, social security, medicare, medicaid and any other entitlement you can think of. As for right or left why can't we use some common sense and a moral compass that says if we can work then we work for a living and if someone is in need then we help them but let the freeloaders fend for themselves. The federal government cannot police the fraud and waste of the entitlements it would be better left to local government and churches to help those in need. The government doesn't do what they do because they care about us, it is about power and what they can do to convince you to vote for them. It seems those on the left can't see that. We need to start by cutting government. Nana thinks capitalism is all about greed but what about our government they have been taking from us for years but it is never enough. Lets force them to make a budget and stick to it. I never heard the left talk about a budget this year because the Democrats "deemed pass" a budget so they didn't even have to vote on it. So they would not have any guidelines or real spending limits. We need a federal government as an oversight for the power of the states but who can provide oversight for the government? How can you provide oversight for the cookie jar when your hand is in it?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Sep 2, 2010, at 11:52 AM

rr3,

You seem obsessed with the 'big government' theory. I agree that our current federal government is bloated, and in some areas extremely inefficient. Some areas, however, I don't agree and think the feds do a decent job.

But on to my point, if government is indeed too 'big', at what point in our history do you think it was of appropriate size? Is there any example we can use as a point of reference where you think that things were properly 'sized' and our government was being operated efficiently?

I'm not so sure it didn't begin to founder pretty much right off the bat, personally, but I'm curious as to how you, who I think pretty much represent the 'somewhat far right' position, see this.

-- Posted by Smart Dog on Thu, Sep 2, 2010, at 9:12 AM

Hate to break it to you all but life is not fair and never has been and never will be. It's amazing to me that people that have zero experience owning or being a CEO of any major corporation know what they need to be paid. You say taxes are too low and executives make too much? What about our government officials that have zero experience in the real world have been lifetime politicians how much are you paying them? Do they produce anything? You and me the taxpayer can't even regulate our out of control spending government but we know how to regulate the private sector. Do we really know what our Congressman and Representatives make from the government dole, lobbyist, etc. I don't think we could nail it down completely if we wanted to. We also know they don't pay their taxes unless they think they are going to get caught and they write the tax code. I think we need to put the blame where it really needs to be instead of whining about something they are telling you to whine about. You want me to bring some cheese to go along with that whine! Would that be FAIR?

Let's take the fat of the government where the real problem is and quite paying the non-producers.

CAPITALISM IS BOSS!!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Sep 2, 2010, at 6:48 AM

Izaak of course it isn't fair.

It boggles my mind that more people can not see that the root cause of our plummeting economy is that wages are cut, jobs are shipped overseas, then the powers that be scratch their heads, and wonder why the American people aren't buying anything. To me the most important thing is that more of us aren't buying the corporatist B.S. any longer.

Why is it that in America's economic hey day executive wages were "only" twenty times the wage of workers, and the tax rate on the wealthy was three times what it is during our ongoing depression? Is there a connection? Duh.

Capitalism is driven by ever increasing consumption. Take away the masses ability to consume, and we get now. Another Duh! It ain't that complicated.

Of course it screws up things even more when greed is increasingly deregulated resulting in potential consumers being bilked out of any remaining wherewithall to consume.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Sep 2, 2010, at 12:56 AM

Should there be justice in the distribution of wealth?

1. Is it just for the CEO of Walmart to be paid $10,000.00/hour when 40,000 Walmart team members are paid$8.00/11.50/hour, which is not a living wage?

2. Is it just for 50 major corporations pay their CEO,s an average of $12,000,000.00 salary while the same year these same corporations laid off 500,000 employees?

3. Is it justice for CEO pay to average 300 times the corporations average hourly pay?In the 1960's the number was 30 times. Peter Drucker, a recognized management theory expert has statedd the number should be closer to 20 times the hourly wage.

-- Posted by izaak on Thu, Sep 2, 2010, at 12:07 AM

Good one okr you're really coming around.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Sep 1, 2010, at 10:55 PM

Looks like a good example of government regulation not enforced. How's that big government working for ya!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Sep 1, 2010, at 10:44 PM

Courtesy of youtube, and the Chad Mitchell Trio.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pG6taS9R1...

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Sep 1, 2010, at 10:33 PM

Well Nana do tell what international corporations are behind those abuses. Inquiring minds want to know.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Sep 1, 2010, at 9:01 PM

God and Politics: Lessons from America's Past

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Lecture...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Sep 1, 2010, at 5:16 PM

Yeh smart dog I've heard that about Catholics too.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Sep 1, 2010, at 4:41 PM

So when Jim the Wonderdog died, he went on up to heaven and met up with old St. Peter for the tour. He found that Heaven looked just like a Holiday Inn, with lots of banquet rooms.

They passed the first room with the doors open, and all inside were listening to Hawaiian music and dancing and having pineapple and ham. St. Peter said "Hey, those are the island people, they will be happy to let you party with them."

The next room, the door too, was open. Inside were lots of folks in jeans and boots, dancing to country music, and having a beer. "The country folks are lots of fun, you might want to get to know them, also."

Then St. Peter turned to Jim and said, "When we pass down this next hall, you need to be really quiet." So they walked on down the hall and past a closed door.

When they turned the corner, Jim looked up a St. Peter and asked "So, what's going on in that last room, eh?"

St. Peter said "That's the Baptists, they think they are the only ones in here."

-- Posted by Smart Dog on Wed, Sep 1, 2010, at 3:52 PM

Does God care about politics?

http://www.bpnews.net/BPFirstPerson.asp?...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Sep 1, 2010, at 12:45 PM

Okr is worrying about what I post political? Practice what you preach brother!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Sep 1, 2010, at 12:31 PM

rr3 this blog is for politics. Please take you fundementalist evangelism to an appropriate blog. Check out Pat Robertson, Creflo Dollar, etc.

They probably have an active blog that would be perfect for you. Fair warning though. You may have to pay God through them to post there.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Sep 1, 2010, at 11:23 AM

Nana

6. a belief that the federal govt. is all knowing and powerful, and people are too weak minded to sove the problems themselves

Wrong. Actual Democracy requires ALL of our citizens to take part in our governance

A Democracy gives the majority unlimited power and takes away any legal safeguard for the individual or minority. So a Democracy does not require that all citizens take part, only the majority. A Republic protects the individuals God given inalienable rights and protects rights for minorities and a Constitution limits the majority.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Sep 1, 2010, at 6:37 AM

Nana

5. seem to be against capitalism, yet embrace a facist or socialist govt - Wrong.

Fascism is captitalist-owned governance of slave labor.

Socialism is those who work reap the benefits.

Why do socialist economies always embrace capitalism when given the opportunity. Socialism takes rights and liberties away from the people.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Sep 1, 2010, at 6:16 AM

Nana

4. an almost trance like matra of borrow, borrow, borrow, so we can spend, spend, spend,,,,,,,,

huh? Sustainability, frugality, and simplicity that are based on real limits, not CONSUME MORE.

We need real limits on government but not on the free market. Don't put limits on lifestyle. People choose according to what they make.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Sep 1, 2010, at 6:13 AM

Nana

3. they possess an almost Robin Hood syndrome of taking from the working to give to all others.

Wrong = I want people who actually do the work to get fairly compensated.

Who decides what is fair, government, unions there will always be someone that believes they are not fairly compensated so this is an impossible task just something for the liberals to whine about.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Sep 1, 2010, at 6:10 AM

News where are you they have lost their leader.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Sep 1, 2010, at 5:52 AM

Nana

1. tolerant of ALL religions at any cost, but not of Christianity -

Wrong, I just don't like the Far Right "true believers", Christian or Muslim.

True believers only apply to Christians that believe in the one true God, Muslims don't.

2. extremely liberal to the point of almost no moral compass -

Wrong - just not YOUR moral compass.

God give you a moral compass whether you believe or not but if you reject God your moral compass can point in the wrong direction.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Sep 1, 2010, at 5:51 AM

He may be in Missouri. For his sake I hope that's true. Better that than an operation.

No News is bad news. I thought I would say that before it dawns on our radical right faction to say, No News is good news.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Sep 1, 2010, at 1:49 AM

As some troops move out of Iraq, oil companies move in.

Finally we can honestly say mission accomplished. We get their oil. http://blogs.forbes.com/brianwingfield/2...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Sep 1, 2010, at 1:41 AM

Ah those profligate petro plutocrats that prostitute our professional people, plunder our piggy bank, and push us into perditious peril.....make me sputter. ;(

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Sep 1, 2010, at 12:42 AM

ND thankfully we still have a few courageous, and honest folk in congress. Those two are at the top of my list.

Looking back, I wonder what has happened to White Tornado, and AFBrat. Their cogency concerning conservative points of view is missed. I don't recall them hammering the same old cliches taken from radical right radio, and tv over, and over. But then maybe I don't remember it because of my dotage. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Sep 1, 2010, at 12:31 AM

What she said. Me too. Is that clear enough? Probably not for those whose minds are so closed that any thing bucking preconceptions simply does not register.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Sep 1, 2010, at 12:07 AM

Good point John lets not forget Ried, Schumer, Dodd just to name a few more.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 31, 2010, at 5:07 PM

Well said, Miss Marple! I'm no economist by any stretch, but I'm convinced that David Stockman knows what he's talking about.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Aug 31, 2010, at 12:56 PM

If we had a hundred more like him we wouldn't have the freedom or the privelge to speak out like we can now. Their way of thinking is if you can't defeat them eliminate them.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 31, 2010, at 12:40 PM

Miss Marple I guess you haven't heard that Obama is going for the record breaker to be the most destructive president in American history. As for Reagen he was the best president we have had in recent history. I'm really sorry you voted for Obama and still feel that way. All I can say is UNBELIEVABLE!!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 31, 2010, at 12:37 PM

rr3yvo: you said "For your support for Obama, you and all his other supporters owe the American people an apology for putting the enemy in the White House." Apologize - sure - as soon as the rest of you apologize for allowing Nixon, Reagan, Bush I and Bush II to be elected. I'd vote for Obama again in a heartbeat. I only wish there were a hundred more in government like him.

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Tue, Aug 31, 2010, at 11:58 AM

Sorry.

Your very, very cold

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Aug 31, 2010, at 11:10 AM

Wtf I asked if you were about 47-48 years old and graduated from Marshall High about 1980? I could be off a year either way and it doesn't matter if you answer just curious.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 31, 2010, at 10:46 AM

JHH

My post was as calmly written as your was rational.

rr3yv0,

What was the question you asked me. I don't remember.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Aug 31, 2010, at 8:50 AM

Jo are you posting and running you say you don't want to debate but think you can post something without comment. For your support for Obama, you and all his other supporters owe the American people an apology for putting the enemy in the White House. You on the left are the ones that think politics and religion don't mix and you think its in the constitution. Hey maybe you can join okr and the gang at the campfire!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 31, 2010, at 6:36 AM

okr thanks for the compliments I think we are getting to you. I think if we get together we need a good bible study and an invitation time for anyone that wants to accept Jesus. Yes you all are qualified it is come as you are. We have nice weather here in Missouri in September and October and would be a good time for a campfire.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 31, 2010, at 6:26 AM

John I think increasing cost through regulation will reduce consumption just like they want to do to our energy through cap and tax they will do to ammunition. Increased cost=reduced consumption.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 31, 2010, at 6:20 AM

Jo don't let the bas**ds grind you down. Stay alive as long as you can. I intend to. I know our society is not one that values the acquired wisdom of the aged, but we still have to try.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Aug 31, 2010, at 1:14 AM

Hey Jo! Glad to see you again, and in good form as usual. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Aug 31, 2010, at 12:03 AM

Yep, OKR. Liberty Enlightening the World with words of wisdom that should be every bit as inspiring today as they were 125 years ago.

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Aug 30, 2010, at 11:56 PM

Hey,Oklahoma,Nana Dot,Slater,and ,White Tornado were ever you are? Hope your ok my friend? Been trying too catch up on all this Politicking, you know that place were Politics and Religion are not supposed to mix! Well i guess it didn't work! I've never read such nonsense ,about our trying to correct all our problem's with all this other nonsense going on! Hell Obama is trying to stay on track but he can't seem to get out of the rut, of him being something other than an American.The American people listen to all this, and know he wouldn't have gotten this far if he wasn't what he said he is. That shows how ignorant some of us are! We let the strategist come up with this kind of insane strategy,and sit around and argue about it and keep it going, the media can't leave that kind of thing alone! Lets get some of these fools out of the business of running our Country? The more i read about this silly system, the more i'm glad i don't have that much longer to listen and read about it. ha Most of these Employees we have needs to find another job,for the Countries sake! Seems like the only way they think they can get Elected, is bring up Religion! Like i've said be for, i grew up in a Honky Tonk were the people were honest , hard working , and most saying they were believer's and never seemed to enter into politic just a good bunch of people, were a handshake was their word.It seems to have changed from what i remember? Well enough of that.With everything i've been reading we have enough Law's to cover this thing,start Prosecuting these People who put out all these misleading statements, and Lie's! Maybe they would call it free speech if a few were incarcerated for inciting hate, with out proof? But what do i know. ha.

-- Posted by Jo on Mon, Aug 30, 2010, at 11:54 PM

Camping out with Lady Liberty are you Slater? That is certainly more productive than what I just proposed. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Aug 30, 2010, at 11:47 PM

Guess where I've been tonight:

With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Aug 30, 2010, at 11:44 PM

Thank you rr3. Perhaps there is hope for you stone hearted, stone headed folk on the right.

I think our next move should be to all get together. I can see you, JHH, and Xray, sitting around a simulated no smoke camp fire with me, NanaDot, and News all holding hands. We could sing a few choruses of Kumbaya, then make the difficult segue to a rollicking version of Onward Christian Scolders. After a camp dinner of tofu with bean sprouts, and raw road kill with a crawly garnish, we could all settle back to commune with nature, each in our own way, whether falling to our knees to pray, dancing around a tree shouting ooom every second beat, or busting a few caps at any varmints whose eyes shine in the beam of a big flash light.

As we adjourned we could share hugs that are manly, but sensitive, but not too sensitive, at least where gender appropriate.

How's that version of "we can all get along" workin' for you?

Naw.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Aug 30, 2010, at 11:35 PM

john henry's hammer just proved my point.

-- Posted by izaak on Mon, Aug 30, 2010, at 11:00 PM

Ha! That's funny, John Henry. Yep, we were had, alright. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Aug 30, 2010, at 10:41 PM

Can someone please show me exactlty where Obama is after your bullets? If he is after your bullets, then why is he the president that signed into law that permit holders can now take weapons into national parks?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Aug 30, 2010, at 10:32 PM

Thank you John you're right it should read guns and bullets. I used to not like okr's post but now I will look at them as inspiration. Thanks okr.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Aug 30, 2010, at 8:25 PM

Here's a site that says it debunks fake religious quotes, including the one by George Washington at issue here:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/badquo...

-- Posted by taxedpayer on Mon, Aug 30, 2010, at 7:43 PM

Let me break it down for you okr

QUALIFICATIONS: You must believe that federal government has failed you, and that it will continue to fail you.

TRUE and always will be

You must believe that God has begun retribution against sinners, and you must be eager to personally execute retribution in his name.

HALF TRUE I will leave it up to God he is capable without me.

You must believe in your heart of hearts that homosexuals are abominations, that AIDS was an early form of God's retribution for their choice to sin.

TRUE sin has consequences.

You must believe that our beautiful country was God's gift to white people, and that he directly guided us in the eradication of the heathens who dwelled in it.

PARTLY TRUE this country is for all people I can't say he guided us because I wasn't there all we have is what is written about it.

You must believe that this Paradise that God gave us is again being overrun by inferior races, and that they must be removed in their entirety by what ever means is necessary.

FALSE

You must believe that our universities, and colleges are propaganda machines for liberals, homosexuals, Jews, and socialists, and that we must return God, and The Holy Bible to the class room.

DEFINITELY TRUE

You must know that the mass media is a propaganda machine for communists, socialists, and Godless deviants, and that it must be ignored.

TRUE probably 80-90% of it.

You must exclusively get your news from Fox News, and clear seeing pundits including Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, and Pat Robertson.

FALSE

You must believe that you are a true patriot, and that only those who are Christians can save our country from the Devil's mischief which temporarily has the upper hand.

TRUE

You must believe that only Christians can effectively participate in the return of our nation to its lost values.

TRUE

You must store as many guns as possible in case they are needed.

DEFINITELY TRUE

Thanks okr for all the help some very good points.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Aug 30, 2010, at 6:06 PM

The inspiration for my recent satire was the Nazis. It would not surprise me that there are likely many in our midst that support a renamed Nazi agenda.

Be afwaid. Be vewy, vewy afwaid.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Aug 30, 2010, at 5:52 PM

John Henry, I posted what I found on the Internet, which was that someone has determined that the Washington quote you misquoted is nowhere to be found in recorded history of Washington's quotations or speeches or any other utterances.

Do I care if he said it? No.

Do I care about the accuracy of someone's report that he didn't say it? No.

Do I care if he EVER made any notable statements? No.

Do I care what your opinion is of me? Absolutely not.

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Aug 30, 2010, at 4:59 PM

okr except for a few tweaks here and there sounds like uncle sham has it down. See I knew you were a right winger.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Aug 30, 2010, at 4:46 PM

UNCLE SHAM WANTS YOU!

QUALIFICATIONS: You must believe that federal government has failed you, and that it will continue to fail you.

You must believe that God has begun retribution against sinners, and you must be eager to personally execute retribution in his name.

You must believe in your heart of hearts that homosexuals are abominations, that AIDS was an early form of God's retribution for their choice to sin.

You must believe that our beautiful country was God's gift to white people, and that he directly guided us in the eradication of the heathens who dwelled in it.

You must believe that this Paradise that God gave us is again being overrun by inferior races, and that they must be removed in their entirety by what ever means is necessary.

You must believe that our universities, and colleges are propaganda machines for liberals, homosexuals, Jews, and socialists, and that we must return God, and The Holy Bible to the class room.

You must know that the mass media is a propaganda machine for communists, socialists, and Godless deviants, and that it must be ignored.

You must exclusively get your news from Fox News, and clear seeing pundits including Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, and Pat Robertson.

You must believe that you are a true patriot, and that only those who are Christians can save our country from the Devil's mischief which temporarily has the upper hand.

You must believe that only Christians can effectively participate in the return of our nation to its lost values.

You must store as many guns as possible in case they are needed.

THIS IS SATIRE. It is not intended to, nor does it, depict any semblance of rationality in its faux message.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Aug 30, 2010, at 1:41 PM

Eric,

In light of your "quote of the day" from yesterday I had to post this link.

http://www.physorg.com/news199982319.htm...

Apparently science has confirmed something I learned a long time ago, from a wise old man "What you say about others says more about you than them."

Isn't it fun when science proves grandpa right?

-- Posted by Smart Dog on Mon, Aug 30, 2010, at 1:35 PM

Actually, John Henry, there's no evidence in recorded history that Washington made that statement about God and the Bible.

What I think is interesting was his belief that a supreme being had to create the universe since there was no proof that nature did it.

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Aug 30, 2010, at 12:10 PM

Obama's EPA to Regulate Hunters and Fisherman

http://www.redstate.com/brian_d/2010/08/...

Another example of the heavy hand of government stripping us of our rights. I bet they are doing it without scientific evidence too.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Aug 30, 2010, at 5:56 AM

NanaDot- Refer your post on fascism. We now have our scapegoats to hate and fear, Muslims and gays, now all we need is enough fear to give up our freedoms, magically we end up wrapping ourselves in the flag and Christian crusading-fascism.

-- Posted by izaak on Sun, Aug 29, 2010, at 11:19 PM

Washington knew enough to also say:

"The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion."

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Aug 29, 2010, at 8:36 PM

Studies Prove

http://www.capitalismmagazine.com/scienc...

http://www.capitalismmagazine.com/scienc...

Usually they proves what they want them to prove not true facts.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Aug 29, 2010, at 8:35 PM

I should have made a separate line.

John,

Sharpton

If there is such a person as John Sharpton my apologies. I was referring to John Henry's Hammer and Al Sharpton.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Aug 29, 2010, at 5:04 PM

John Sharpton wants to claim that Glenn was trying to derail the memory of MLK because Glenn was holding his rally at the sight and on the anniversary of MLK speech. Glenn's rally wasn't even political but the left is trying to make it so.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Aug 29, 2010, at 5:01 PM

Quote of the day:

"To be gratuitously nasty in public discourse is like relieving yourself in a swimming pool. Even if nobody knows you did it, you still made the pool a dirtier place for everybody--yourself included."

--Terry Teachout, www.artsjournal.com/aboutlastnight/2010/...

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Sun, Aug 29, 2010, at 10:21 AM

ND - the article by the Russian guy was most interesting. Thanks for posting the link.

His comment about the US military not knowing how to win was thought-provoking, and I understand what he meant if he was talking about the affect to the societal mindset caused by invasion and/or mass destruction.

I believe the number of PTSD cases among our military personnel reflect the lack of hardness necessary to be victorious in war.

Must be our sense of fair play. We need more generals like George Patton (tic).

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Aug 28, 2010, at 4:06 PM

Mrxray are you inferring that the oil deal in Iraq garnered by Halliburton raises no questions as to it being a back room deal?

In my opinion much done in government, and corporations is accomplished by back room deal. Always has been. It is an integral aspect of human social interaction.

If you are just asking for the details on the Halliburton deal look em up. Your mouse is as good as mine. If you do please share. I was just raising the question which to me seemed obvious. Frankly, I think it is likely you share my opinion.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Aug 28, 2010, at 2:54 PM

MrXray - I'm in agreement with you on your assessment of how politicians SHOULD behave as opposed to how they ACTUALLY behave. As I see it, it's our duty to oust ALL of those who connive and cheat in order to advance their own interests ahead of the interests of the country and the rest of us.

I'm not keeping up with any polls, since I have a very low regard for poll data accurately reflecting the general public attitude, but I'm sure the sentiment as expressed in November will surprise members of both parties.

It'll no doubt be a choice between the lesser of the evils - in both directions.

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Aug 28, 2010, at 1:42 PM

Thousands Turn Out for Glenn Beck Rally as Civil Rights Leaders Protest Event

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/08/...

I wonder if the same ones speaking out for the mosque in NY are the ones protesting would be interesting to know. I think Dr. King would be more honored about the Restoring Honor Rally then the protest.

Glenn Beck's Restoring Honor Rally by the Lincoln Memorial in Washington, D.C.

http://www.foxnews.com/slideshow/us/2010...

http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/0...

Who is really dividing the people? If the people weren't divided what good would Sharpton be? He has to divide the people to remain effective.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Aug 28, 2010, at 1:33 PM

RR3 you are right about religion, it is not a compromising area of or lives. IF we beleive in a religion then we should be willing to stand up and say we do and live like we do and not be scared if other people know we believe it.

Politics should be the same way to a certain extent. If I am elected to represent my constituents, I should always be willing to talk to them, listen to them and be upfront about what I am voting for and why so even if some disagree with me they always know what and why I am voting for. All politicians are snake oil sales men and women and they will only tell you what they think we WANT to hear and not what they believe. They hide behind rhetoric and disortions and flip flops and it is from both parties. I find it funny that polls are showing the people trust Republicans on all 10 major election factors more than they do Democrats... but does that prove the people trust the Republicans? No it just means that at this point in time they are the better of the two evils and that the same old problem exists.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Aug 28, 2010, at 12:42 PM

OKR: so any other company except Haliburton should have been given the contracts? do you know the specifics of the contract and the bidding process and the competions bids?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Aug 28, 2010, at 12:31 PM

Our Summer of Despair

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/08/2...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Aug 28, 2010, at 8:32 AM

xray another fine example of the incompetence of our government to spend money. These projects should be handled by state and local governments not federal. Seems the government incompetence spreads to everything it touches but some are convinced they need to run our lives because we are too stupid to do it ourselves.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Aug 28, 2010, at 7:38 AM

Really it is all about control. Look at our government and the legislature that has in the last 20 months or so. Has anything been in line with the will of the people no it has been to give Washington more control over our lives.

Religion is something the left can't control so they don't want to talk about it. They don't want to get out of the box.

They want to be a bleeding heart for illegal immigrants but they have a hard heart when it come to protected American citizens.

They have a bleeding heart for Muslims wanting build a mosque but have hard heart toward Christians.

They think it is there job to expose misinformation if you do it but they never do it. Misinformation can be anything they don't agree with.

They have a bleeding heart for the poor and minorities but they never want them to go away because they make a career out of taking advantage of them and make it look like their helping.

If they don't like the subject they turn there back and say "I'm not going to talk to you no more". I remember maybe saying that back in third grade.

I'm not sure how the subject of religion came up but I posted other things in an effort to change the subject but the religion subject kept coming up. It was by the ones that don't want to discuss it.

There seems to be a confusion that you can compromise on religion the same as politics. That is not the case you have two choices heaven or hell whether you believe or not.

I feel anything I post on here is open for debate don't try to hide under a disclaimer. If there is a subject I don't want to discuss I will ignore it, not whine to all my friends about it.

So Nanadot and okr I am sorry you feel you can't address me but in the scheme of things it really doesn't matter. Thanks anyway.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Aug 28, 2010, at 7:30 AM

Obama spending... in 20 months Obama has increased the US deficit by 4 trillion almost.. Bush only increased it by 4 trillion over 8 years..... read more about the cost of war versus cost of Obama, cost of medicare etc

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinio...

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Aug 28, 2010, at 1:22 AM

Looks like the oil war in Iraq is continuing to pay dividends to Halliburton, a.k.a. Cheney & Co.

They get a one hundred and fifty million dollar deal to develop a major oil field in Iraq.

http://www.iraq-businessnews.com/2010/08...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Aug 28, 2010, at 1:05 AM

rr3 you said: "Wow John that was like hitting the easy button. All we can do is pray when someone's heart is that hard."

"The recent post on here should tell us that there is a lot of people out there that needs to hear about Jesus."

Firstly, I believe you are confused. How can a bleeding heart, and a hard heart be in the same person? Nana Dot is definitely a progressive populist, a bleeding heart by your standards.

Secondly I don't want to hear about Jesus, especially from you. So please take your evangelizing back to a street corner. At least there one can walk in another direction.

Thirdly your pomposity regarding religion is tiresome. I am joining NanaDot in not having anything to say to you. With one exception that is. If you post misinformation on this blog I will expose it.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Aug 28, 2010, at 12:21 AM

I thought this was a POLITICAL thread... we need a different one for religion... this is getting boring. The debate between those that beleive and those that dont is pointless on a message board.......... neither side will give in and neither side will make compromises......

-- Posted by mrxray on Fri, Aug 27, 2010, at 11:28 PM

Remember the 'wonderful" 'stimulus' program from the Obama program that was to weatherize homes? LOL Stupid typical Government MESS..... what a waste and what a ignorant bunch we have in the white house and Congress

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/arti...

-- Posted by mrxray on Fri, Aug 27, 2010, at 11:21 PM

America, the Odd Man Out

Every dollar of government spending sucks between one and three dollars from the wealth-creating private sector.

Some have the absurd notion the government achieves a 3:1 multiplier effect but sensible economist suspect the opposite is true.

http://www.capitalismmagazine.com/world/...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 27, 2010, at 9:10 PM

Good article taxedpayer but I was also glad some of the young people are on fire with the passion for telling people about their experience with God. Too bad it is not as easy to get the grown-ups fired up. The recent post on here should tell us that there is a lot of people out there that needs to hear about Jesus.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 27, 2010, at 8:08 PM

Wow John that was like hitting the easy button. All we can do is pray when someone's heart is that hard.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 27, 2010, at 7:57 PM

The study mentioned in this article seems to support what John Henry & rr3yv0 are saying about the number of christians-in-name vs purebred Christians.

www.cnn.com/2010/LIVING/08/27/almost.chr...

-- Posted by taxedpayer on Fri, Aug 27, 2010, at 4:13 PM

"The idea that there is Islamophobia in America and an anti-Muslim backlash is a huge myth. We are a very nice and tolerant people. But if you read the pages of the NY Times or watch various television news reports, you'll hear much more bigotry toward anyone who is a Christian." -Urbanski

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 27, 2010, at 3:49 PM

John I agree none of us want to die but we don't have to fear it. I'm not sure you meant to say "religion is a bad experience" you might check that. Also true that a majority of people in this country will proclaim to be Christian but really aren't. I think they should ask those that proclaim to be Christian if 1)they are saved by the blood of Jesus and 2)do you believe the bible is the true inspired word of God. I would say that the percentage would go down.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 27, 2010, at 3:45 PM

The Leftist Tailspin

When in doubt, threaten to murder them.

http://www.redstate.com/tabithahale/2010...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 27, 2010, at 7:12 AM

NBC/MSNBC & YouTube teamed with progressive orgs with financial ties to ACORN in 2008

http://www.redstate.com/ladyimpactohio/2...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 27, 2010, at 7:06 AM

Glad to hear it Slater.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 27, 2010, at 6:49 AM

Nanadot you didn't say whether your grandmother was a Christian or not. Hope she was. It is natural for unbelievers to fear death because of the fear of the unknown. Thats why Jesus said his wish is that none should perish but all to have eternal life.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 27, 2010, at 6:45 AM

Sounds like things are going pretty good there for you okr.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 27, 2010, at 6:41 AM

One more.

Forthcoming dilemma for progressives. Whether to support a Christian conservative Republican who has seen the light, and gone green, based on the believe that it is mandatory for Christians to fully engage in exemplary stewardship of God's earth, or a Democrat who supports Agribusiness over the environment.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Aug 27, 2010, at 3:09 AM

Well, I'm still awake. Some thoughts that just occurred to me.

Most interesting dilemma for Libertarians. How to tolerate being bed fellows with the christian conservative right, and contain their partner's propensity to meddle in matters of personal liberty.

Most interesting dilemma for the christian conservative right. How to continue consistently voting for all Republican candidates when they see that many of them don't give a **** about conservative causes, just corporate causes.

Most interesting dilemma for the progressive populist left. How to persuade the working class, whites in particular, to redirect their well founded populist angst toward corporatist Republicans instead of liberal Democrats.

Most interesting dilemma for the largely independent center right, and center left. Figuring out just where in the heck the center is any more.

That's all folks.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Aug 27, 2010, at 2:45 AM

Ah come on guys, bury the hatchet, you are both good guys.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Aug 27, 2010, at 1:59 AM

Clarification. Oklahoma has the highest female population per capita, in prison, all the states in the nation.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Aug 27, 2010, at 1:11 AM

After, to some degree participating in, but, largely observing the current perfect storm of mixed politics, and religion on the blog, I feel compelled to tout the benefits of Oklahoma to the righteous, and right wing group waving the the banners of Christendom, and Conservatism. How's that complex sentence workin for ya?

Firstly, and probably most important to those to whom I am spreading the Good News, Oklahoma is well on the way to becoming the first state in the nation to be a genuine theocracy. Our legislature (I use the word our very loosely) is dominated by Republican Christians who put their God in front of every public statement that they make, and in the forefront of every legislative execution. They have such numerical superiority that they slam dunk in the face of a Southern Baptist, conservative Democrat Governor who occasionally exhibits the temerity to veto one of their God ordained bills. Never mind that he patiently explains that he is vetoing such business because it will not even pass muster at the conservative SCOTUS, and the state is too broke to spend money on lost causes. Slam, veto, "it is God's will". Onward Christian soldiers, we are marching because it is war.

The next U.S. Representative from my District most assuredly will be a Republican whose work record is that he has spent the last fifteen years as the head of the largest summer youth church camp in the state. Southern Baptist of course. Accentuating how God driven are the voters in Oklahoma is that in the Republican primary run off he got a landslide victory against get this, an ex-state legislator who is everybody agrees, a conservative christian, and who volunteered for Iraq duty, while there winning the Bronze Star. Snuggled up to God, 1; Just close to God war hero, 0. Yeh, he faces a Democratic opponent in the general election, some sucker who is well spoken, an attorney, a family man. He is probably right with God in most folks eyes, but not all, especially in Oklahoma. Seven years a marine. Hasn't got a chance. But wait, the political piece de resistance, our two United States Senators James Inhofe, and Tom Coburn. Their notoriety is such that I need not say more. One last tid bit that will make you break in to tears because you don't live here yet. It is the only state in the nation that every county gave a majority to John McCain in the last presidential election.

Another thing that you conservative/christians will love is the fiscal situation, what I mean is tax rate. Among the lowest in the nation, and would you believe that the legislature is continuosly, that is without pause, doling out tax breaks to the oil industry? Talk about trickle down at its purest, wow. Here is the best part, NO TAX INCREASES UNLESS APPROVED BY 70% OF THE PEOPLE. That'll happen when hell freezes over.

I probably should mention some factors within the state's social structure that may be of particular interest to those I am addressing. The sneer factor here is off the charts. If you think you have a bunch of lazy good for nothings up there, you ain't seen nothin. We are at or near number one in teen births, obesity, smoking, illiteracy, and many more. We are doing a good job of getting a handle on it though. I am proud to announce that we have the highest population of women in prison of any state in the nation. We understand the cry of the right, LOCK EM UP!

We have not one, not two, but three dark skinned minorities to get angry about. African- Americans, Hispanics, and Native Americans. That's not counting a lot of Asians, but we don't say much about them because they make such cheap good food, do our nails, give us massages, and generally seem to be hard working.

Then there is the homeless. You will have the rare opportunity to observe them up close all over Oklahoma City. It is an opportunity that you don't expect to run into outside of third world countries. Every day at every major intersection there is at least one, often several, beggars looking for a hand out. What an deal, a chance to get rid of that pent up frustration every mile, or so. Sneer at em, shoot em the bird, even yell profanities, or "get a job".

I know, I know, the first question that comes to your mind is, but why do you, a progressive/populist choose to live there? Most of all family, and the fact that I am old. Our house is nice, and is paid for, yadda, yadda, yadda. Hard to leave. I confess though that I am beginning to have a better understanding of the mindset of the Jews of Warsaw, Poland in the early nineteen forties.

If you are interested, and would like to see more information than is contained in this prospectus please let me know.

THIS IS SATIRE.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Aug 27, 2010, at 1:00 AM

Thanks for your concern, rr3, but, no, I'm quite satisfied with my status. I know God won't be picking me as a shining example, but He knows I do my best, regardless of how mediocre that may be.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Aug 26, 2010, at 11:38 PM

Slater I thought you might have been worried about your own status I was just trying to help you out brother.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 26, 2010, at 11:15 PM

Nanadot we are slaves to the ever encroaching hand of the government in our back pockets because of the numbers we have feeding at the government trough. Don't forget CAPITALISM IS BOSS!!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 26, 2010, at 11:13 PM

Nanadot I'm not obsessed with going to heaven I just don't want to go to hell. Do you have to believe that, not at all.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 26, 2010, at 11:10 PM

Hi zeke, allow me to offer my view on the upcoming elections: Politicians should not be allowed in politics.

-- Posted by mikelh on Thu, Aug 26, 2010, at 9:25 PM

Hey News - I'm extending my hand in friendship, willing to let bygones by bygones if you are.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Aug 26, 2010, at 7:48 PM

ND - I believe all those people who obsess over Heaven and Hell are worried about their own status. They're usually the ones who insist on telling us how "religious" they are and how the rest of us are headed to hell.

When I hear that kind of talk I immediately think of the Paul Sorvino character, Rev. Williams, in the movie, Oh God.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Aug 26, 2010, at 7:43 PM

Sign seen at a rally against illegal immigration:

Illegal immigration is destroying America-look what it did to the White House!

Pure genius!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 26, 2010, at 5:55 PM

Just a catch up on overdue thank you responses to News, and Jo, as well as anyone else I may have left out.

News your comments are meaningful to me because I have a high regard for your opinion.

Philemon nice job of timeline, and detail on the Columbia situation. Thank you.

See you all down the road. I suppose down the road to perdition in some folks eyes. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Aug 26, 2010, at 5:16 PM

Why Do Muslims Convert to Christianity?

http://www.siena.org/March-2008/why-do-m...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 26, 2010, at 4:26 PM

I'm not the one sidestepping Slater now its a disclaimer not up for debate? Sounds like an excuse when your cornered? I told you Slater you were beating a dead horse. You seem quite defensive about a "disclaimer".

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 26, 2010, at 3:45 PM

That's your usual tactic, rr3 - whenever you're cornered you sidestep and try to make excuses.

Evidently you're unable to discern disclaimer from debate language. The statement I made about my belief is in the form of a disclaimer. Nowhere in it did I ask to debate my belief, nor was I debating the belief of any other person.

I've said all I need to say on this topic, and so have you between the two of us. Let's move along to other issues.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Aug 26, 2010, at 3:16 PM

Pigs of Waste

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?i...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 26, 2010, at 2:56 PM

You know Slater if you don't want to debate something don't bring it up. You can use the cut and run method of posting if you want. I never said your views were less than religious. Seems like your beating a dead horse here.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 26, 2010, at 2:48 PM

Islam: The Only Religion Protected and Defended by the American Left

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/s...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 26, 2010, at 2:43 PM

I said this to rr3:

"I have no problem accepting your religious views, but I do have a problem with you telling me that my views are less than religious."

As you said to me, my salvation is between God and me, and that's the way I think about your salvation. I don't offer criticism or a critique of the way you or anyone else thinks about religion, and I expect the same consideration in return.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Aug 26, 2010, at 2:34 PM

Slater I never question your salvation but I can question your opinion just like you can question mine. Any advice given was not unsolicited the subject turned to religion and I am just voicing what I believe thats all.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 26, 2010, at 2:14 PM

rr3, in its purest form, I believe the Bible is the inspired word of God, as interpreted by the contributors. Nothing proves they've repeated His words verbatim, since we're talking about humans.

I'd question your statement about having a responsibility to offer unsolicited advice about religion to the sinners of the world. I have no problem accepting your religious views, but I do have a problem with you telling me that my views are less than religious.

You share your brand of religion with like-minded individuals and I'll do the same if asked, and we'll both be well off.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Aug 26, 2010, at 1:48 PM

Jihad in American Mosques

http://exposingliberallies.blogspot.com/...

Our Tax Dollars Used to Promote Islam

http://exposingliberallies.blogspot.com/...

A Little Education on Islam

http://exposingliberallies.blogspot.com/...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 26, 2010, at 1:20 PM

Nanadot you are right my responsibility is not to you it is to God. There's people that deny God all their life and accept him at the last minute of their life. We don't know if we will be given that last chance though.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 26, 2010, at 1:02 PM

News you see I do have all the facts and I do know where I am going. You are the one that don't know what to believe or just don't want to believe but thats ok. You seem to be looking for something to fill a void in your life but if your not ready to listen it doesn't matter what I say.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 26, 2010, at 12:58 PM

looks like maybe there should be a dedicated "Religion" Speak Out much like the "POLITICS" Speak Out.

but then there would probably be a lot of political talk on the religion side.

oh bother ...

anyone looking into the elections that will effect you locally - senate, reps, etc?

we share some of the same folks with you - Ike and others. interested in the senate race as well.

zeke

-- Posted by zeke on Thu, Aug 26, 2010, at 12:11 PM

john henry's hammer

Don't forget third possility...the Hindus, Mormans, Animists, or some other of the many ancient beliefs is the correct one and you believe in the wrong God and you end up in hell (or something like it) because you were raised up believing in a false idol. After all its not like you have verified your belief or verified any religious belief. You are just hoping you have been brought up in the right religion and that is all you can do.

By your own definition you could be just as well on your way to hell as you are to heaven and you have no tangible way of knowing if you are right or wrong...until its too late I guess.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Aug 26, 2010, at 8:51 AM

rr3yv0

You say, "...I know where I'm going. Not a criticism, just a fact."

It is not a fact. It is an assumption based on nothing more than some myth your parents and preacher told you were real stories.

If you had been raised in China, you would be a Buddist.

If you had been raised in India, you would be a Hindu.

If you had been raised in Saudi Arabia, you would be a Muslim.

You bought all that nonsense when you were a child because of a thing in psycology known as "Life Scripting."

You don't know if you will even survive death...you have no facts...you have only the assurances of authority figures who also have no facts and believe that nonsense for the same reason you do -- their parents and preacher taught them.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Aug 26, 2010, at 6:49 AM

AGAIN - I do not care about your religion, I don't believe in your dogma, and have no interest in your heaven or hell. Not a criticism, just a fact.

-- Posted by NanaDot on Wed, Aug 25, 2010, at 11:48 PM

I guess we have heard this before. Nanadot you don't have to believe in heaven or hell thats why we all have free will to believe the way we want. That still does not relieve me of the responsibility of telling someone if they don't accept Jesus as their personal Lord and Saviour then they are headed for hell. But you are correct you don't have to belief and you can bash me all you want but I know where I'm going. Not a criticism, just a fact.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 26, 2010, at 6:26 AM

Nanadot I never said anything about being a minority. Again you have me confused with someone else. So I don't have any idea what you are referring to or what news is praising you for.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 26, 2010, at 6:08 AM

Howdy y'all. I'm a thinkin that anybody of the left, or the right persuasion will get mad bout these here facts. Now there may be a few odd souls or narco-shills for the Corporate Nobility that will smile about em. How's that gettin ahead workin out fer ya?

http://www.businessinsider.com/15-charts...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Aug 26, 2010, at 2:07 AM

NanaDot

Nice smackdown Nan,

...well said.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Aug 26, 2010, at 12:49 AM

"Army: Soldiers formed 'kill team' to randomly execute Afghans [non-combatant, civillians]"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/0825/sol...

I guess a warmonger would regard this as the "winning of hearts and minds."

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Aug 25, 2010, at 11:28 PM

"Regardless of numbers, it feels like a recession [depression]:

More bad housing, hiring data show an economy that may be faltering"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38855093/ns/...

Double-dip is nonsense, this derpression never ended at all...in fact, its barely even begun yet. Add the potenial of the Republicans taking over Government and you have a receipe for making America into the newest Banana Republic.

In fact, my wife and I are really looking forward to the bargains we can get on our upcoming trip to America. People once used to go to Mexico to get real value for their money...now they go the USA...does that give you any idea where our American economy is headed?

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Aug 25, 2010, at 11:07 PM

So Slater do you believe the bible is the true inspired word of God? Satan wants us to believe that some of the literal interpretation of the bible is lost through translation. Those that study the original language of the bible don't believe that.

My question is do you believe the whole bible as written? You say you were saved at age 12 are you completely saved? My point is can someone be a little bit pregnant?

I'm not questioning your salvation that is between you and God I agree. Just seems to me you are questioning the bible. If you are that brings other things to question.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Aug 25, 2010, at 10:34 PM

you have not one shread of testable, repeatable, verifiable evidence that your God exists and is the only true God.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Aug 25, 2010, at 4:54 PM

Wow I wonder how many times we have heard that argument? Quite a few. Like I said news the evidence of a creator is all around you every time you look at creation. You believe life comes from non-life then we evolved on this planet into what we are now. If we evolved from simple to complex then why do we die. Where did death come from? Why do we die? We should not age if we evolve to something better should we? Nothing evolves from chaos to order? Do you look at a building and think that used to be a forest but a tornado came through and now we have this beautiful building? Sounds ridiculous doesn't it?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Aug 25, 2010, at 10:21 PM

You know Miss Marple and Nanadot if you would offer something besides criticism then maybe we could talk about it.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Aug 25, 2010, at 10:08 PM

zeke,

I'm not sure where you were going with telling me to get my bible right. I didn't reference heart or church in my post.

Revelation 3:19-21 (New International Version)

19Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest, and repent. 20Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me. 21To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne.

If you were meaning some churches don't invite him in I can agree with that.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Aug 25, 2010, at 10:06 PM

Amen, NanaDot. This has devolved into a forum for about five people, two of whom continually pound the drum on the same tired subjects. False victimhood - excellent description! ^5

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Wed, Aug 25, 2010, at 10:00 PM

About Religious Beliefs or Non-Beliefs:

I'll start by saying that I'm one of the believers - I believe in God, and I accepted Jesus as my Savior when I was 12.

I've adopted a simplistic way of thinking about my belief by accepting that certain things can be believed without being quantified, and that goes for my belief in God. Physical science can make a strong case for our existence being due to factors grounded in that discipline, and I don't intend to argue against science; thus, my rationale.

While I believe in God, at the same time I take a relative view of any interpretation of the Bible. It was written by people who no doubt held various biases, the same as us humans today, and the original work has been translated several times by many people who no doubt held various biases, just like us. Those elements make a literal interpretation inaccurate, and to do so is unwise, in my view. Sunday school and Bible study have been less than productive for me because of the way some choose to think about the Scriptures, so I choose to avoid discussions of that type.

I'm not the missionary type, so I don't go around trying to re-channel the thinking of those who are uncertain about believing in God. It's like believing in Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy or the Easter Bunny. We grow up believing in those legends until we discover the hard evidence of their non-existence. However, unlike those legends, a belief in God lasts for eternity.

A spiritual belief can't be denied or contradicted. It's a belief that's inherent in certain people and comes from the heart.

I may very well have done poorly at explaining my feeling, but I believe you'll get my point.

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Aug 25, 2010, at 9:27 PM

OOPS...here is the link to that story.

"Cops: NYC cabbie is asked if he's Muslim, stabbed"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38852372/ns/...

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Aug 25, 2010, at 6:21 PM

"Cops: NYC cabbie is asked if he's Muslim, stabbed"

How much ya wanna bet the bad guy in this story is a good Christian boy?

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Aug 25, 2010, at 6:19 PM

Yeah...rr3...you have not one shread of testable, repeatable, verifiable evidence that your God exists and is the only true God.

I mean you clain you have provided scientific evidence but I haven't seen it anywhere in any of your postings, and thus far no Christian has ever submitted their scientific evidence to support their hypothisis that a God exists and that it is the Christian God to any scientific journal for peer review (the repeating of experiments using exact same conditions and getting the exact same results as the original experiment).

I can assure you, every skeptic in the World wold love to see your scientific evidence....but you have none. Its that simple, and I am not accepting your hypothisis till you provide scientific evidence that supports your hypothisis.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Aug 25, 2010, at 4:54 PM

hey - rr3 - i'm with you - but get your bible right.

jesus isn't standing at the door of our hearts in that scripture - he's standing at the door of the church - and having a hard time getting in.

just a thought ...

but please continue.

zeke

-- Posted by zeke on Wed, Aug 25, 2010, at 3:43 PM

News,

The evidence has been presented but you turn your back on it. It says in the last days men will see evidence of God but will harden their hearts and turn away. I can only hope you don't do that. You will not receive the truth unless God has prepared your heart to receive it that will be your decision. Jesus says he will stand at the door and knock but you have to let him in he won't break the door down.

John and Philemon are both right that you have a very closed mind about what you believe. You can't even see the evidence all around you how could we present evidence in this format that would suit. We can just pray.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Aug 25, 2010, at 2:32 PM

rr3...

yeah but what if you are wrong and the voodo priests are correct?

What if you are wrong and the great Juju is the real God?

Since they are all supported by nothing, they all are potentially correct and equally potentially wrong, how do you know your's is the correct one?

So with not one shread of evidence to tell you which one is correct...then how do you know you are not dooming yourself to an eternity of pain and suffering even now as you read this?

How do you know?

The fact is you have no objective way of knowing which is correct and whether or not you are on your way to hell. So given that fact, I find it ironic that you can suggest that I am the one who has something to worry about while you are "insured" by your belief which may be all wrong because the fact is you have no idea if you are right or wrong.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Aug 25, 2010, at 9:03 AM

rr3,

It was an exercise in futility from the moment he called God your "imaginary friend" in his post. I've started a reply to that several times but couldn't come up with a way to put my opinion of those remarks in a way that I wouldn't delete myself if I were Eric.

News,

Good thing you didn't say that about the relationship between Allah and his Prophet and especially didn't draw a cartoon about it.You could have ended up on a death list or at least started world wide protests. Luckily, rr3 will just pray for you.

-- Posted by Philemon on Wed, Aug 25, 2010, at 8:14 AM

There is only one true God and he sacrificed his son to save all of us. All we have to do is accept him. I could go into more detail news but for you it would probably be an exercise in futility unless you're ready.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Aug 25, 2010, at 7:23 AM

rr3yv0

...well your plan depends upon your religious beliefs being correct. What if you are all wrong and disregarding the real God? How do you know which religion is correct?

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Aug 25, 2010, at 6:55 AM

News the way I see it God is real whether you believe or not. So if I am wrong news when we die thats it we rot. Thats what you believe right? If I am right then I have the promise of eternal life in heaven and you would go to hell. This life is short compared to eternity so is it worth it to be wrong? I think I will stick with the promise of eternal life because after you're dead it is too late to change your mind.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Aug 25, 2010, at 6:50 AM

rr3yv0

You say we are all made in your imaginary friend's (God's) image.

Is God a male or a female? If he is a male...which seems to be what a lot of folks think...what does he need the male parts for? Does his body require the same functions as ours? Does he engage in marital relations? If so, does he have a wife? Mary maybe? After all She is the Mother...right...OMG...if Mary is both his Mother and his wife and He is his own Father...oh this is getting scary.

What an odd and pervese belief that is.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Aug 25, 2010, at 3:11 AM

Seems like a vicious circle.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 24, 2010, at 11:11 PM

Good one Nanadot I have to give you that. That mosque thing has got to be bad its funded by Fox News. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 24, 2010, at 11:10 PM

You're right Nanadot we are all God's children made in his image. That means your kin to people in the Tea Party. AAAAAAAAAAAAH!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 24, 2010, at 9:09 PM

Philemon thank you and good post by the way but the Rush quotes are just to get them going they are so predictable you know.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 24, 2010, at 8:24 PM

rr3,

To continue my equal time theme, even though I agree with most of what you posted that he said, your Rush Limbaugh quotes have only barely more credibility than Bill Maher.

Slater,

How about helping get us out of this political rut by posting some more nostalgia type stuff over on the main page. I wasn't born here, but love history.

OKR,

Nothing to say but didn't want to leave you out.

Everyone else,

See OKR

-- Posted by Philemon on Tue, Aug 24, 2010, at 8:07 PM

News,

Also, where I tend to agree with you is that your ideas might be the best solution in a perfect world, but unfortunatly, we don't live there and I doubt we ever will.

For example, I'm all for there being no nukes in the world, but I don't see it ever happening and don't even think it is a good idea for us to lead the way. When nukes were first invented, the one to have them first was the obvious winner. If eliminated, the last to get rid of them would be the obvious winner. It's the old Mexican standoff problem.

Also, socialism may well be the perfect system in a perfect world. A world where everyone has all their needs met and everyone does their fair part in making the system work. I just don't see human nature working that way in a large enough percentage of the population to be viable. On a side note, I find it kind of ironic that such a proponent of the Theory of Evolution is so anti-capitalist. Isn't capitalism at its root a survival of the fittest?

-- Posted by Philemon on Tue, Aug 24, 2010, at 7:55 PM

News,

Just to give equal time after my post to JHH, your statement that:

"Its sad that the Conservatives won't admit to themselves that their motivations are sticktly based in racism and religious biggotry. Its not hard to see. All one has to do is take a good look at the Teabagger Party to see just how racist the conservatives are."

is just as wrong as what JHH said. You've taken the actions of a few and the exaggerations of some bloggers and even some news agencies and convicted a large portion of the population of the country of being racists and biggots with no sound facts.

Also, as far as other news agencies being more reliable, one thing off the top of my head to mention would be the Dan Rather debacle. Also, strange that Fox News was the only major news agency to carry a story about Prop C passing by such a wide margin in Missouri. (No link to support this claim, think I read it in the KC Star although I was watching ABC that night and heard nothing.) Could it be that didn't fit the message the other news agencies wanted America to hear?

As with JHH, I tend to agree with you at times, but your methods tend to be so irritating that your message is lost.

-- Posted by Philemon on Tue, Aug 24, 2010, at 7:39 PM

News you don't understand if we have a city laying in radioactive ruins means someone has attacked us. We will never rid the world of nukes so that means we need to have the most so nobody dares mess with us. How do you defeat a bully news? Appease him? Talk to him? Apologize to him? No you defeat him where he will never stand up to you again. Why do you think we have the mosque controversy, Iran threatening us because Obama has emboldened them by making us look like a bunch of sissies that we are weak and they encroach onto our territory. I don't think you and the rest of the liberals will wake up until we do have a city or cities laying in radioactive ruin. Then will you get mad enough to do something about it. The attack of 911 happened because of the appeasement of the left whether you want to admit it or not. They tied the hands of our intelligence and our military so we wouldn't make anybody mad. The wars we are in could end a lot sooner if we would loose our military to do their job and achieve victory. You want to end the wars news withdrawal without victory is not the answer. Give our military everything they need and give them a goal to achieve then you could put a timetable on it and the mission would be accomplished. Get the mamby pamby liberals out of the way. The only way to defeat the enemy is VICTORY!!!

News did you ever have a bully bug when you were young. He just kept bugging you making you mad but you did nothing so he kept bugging and bugging you and bugging you. Get the picture, I had a bully like that and everyone told me you need to stand up to him then he will stop. For a long time I didn't believe them. But one day I had enough and I stood up to him and we fought I don't think either one of us won but after that we were friends and no more bullying. He got the message. No different with world bullies we need to stand up to them and if they don't get the message then we defeat them that's how its done news. Thats how we can achieve VICTORY!!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 24, 2010, at 7:21 PM

JHH,

I've taken the "dates of significance" you noted and done the research you claim nobody is doing to see your point about 3 mosques being raided in Columbia. Below are my findings:

Oct 14, 2004

There was a raid on the Islamic American Relief Agency in Columbia. This was not a mosque, but rather a charity. To avoid further arguement, I'll give you this as the first raid since you claim they are close to the same thing.

Sep 20, 2006

The FBI searched the home of one of the leaders of the Islamic Center of Central Missouri. If his home is a mosque, then mine would be a church, so I'm not going to give you that one.

Mar 8, 2007

Five men were indicted that were associated with the charity named above, partially from evidence at the above named raid. They weren't indicted for giving money to terrorists, but for sending money to Iraq that was supposed to be for economic relief to the poor. They were indicted because under the sanctions, ANY money sent for ANY reason to ANYONE in the entire country of Iraq was illegal. Not a raid, only indictments from your previous raid.

Jan 2, 2009

That was the date of a peaceful protest by muslims in Columbia wanting an end to Israel's military attacks in Gaza. No raid, no arrests, and not even any claimed violence.

I searched further, but still found no evidence of 3 raids on mosques in Columbia. I often agree with much of what you have to say, but you do tend to exaggerate and this is a blatant example. Be careful, putting out misinformation tends to make people not listen even when you are 100% correct at other times. That is one problem Fox News has, although I do agree with you that the other news agencies are just as bad with a liberal twist.

-- Posted by Philemon on Tue, Aug 24, 2010, at 7:13 PM

The Unbalanced Load

It's not good the public sector gets bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger because they really don't produce or make anything, and everything that's used to pay them has to first be produced and then taxed in the private sector.

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/s...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 24, 2010, at 6:54 PM

rr3yv0

I agree mate...nukes have to go.

I am glad to see you and I agree on at least that.

Nuclear weapons are indeed one of the greatest threats to mankind.

I urge you to email or call our Senators and your Congressman and demand that the U.S. take the initiative and lead the way to ridding the World of nuclear weapons. A good start would be our own nuclear arsenal. May I suggest that we stop producing any nuclear or biological or chemical weapons around the World.

Let's lead the way in getting rid of nukes. Let's voluntarily eliminate our nuclear arsenal and show the rest of the World that we are serious about getting rid of nukes.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Aug 24, 2010, at 6:52 PM

jhh

Yes I am a pacifist and yss I believe in peace.

Me and Jesus make no appologies for supporting only peace and opposing all violence.

As to WWII, again, we didn't enter the war until 1 of the Axis Powers attacked us (Japan) and another declared war on us (Germany).

It is true that the Democrats definately wanted to enter the war early on in 1939. However conservatives strongly opposed our entry into WWII and the Republicans obstructed every effort that was made by the Democrats to get us into the war in support of our Allies. When we were attacked by the Japanese and had war declared on us by Germany, Republicans had no choice but to drop their obstructionism and we then declared war on the Axis Powers.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Aug 24, 2010, at 5:53 PM

Oklahoma Reader

There is no question what so ever that you clearly proved your thesis, and you did so very very well.

Its sad that the Conservatives won't admit to themselves that their motivations are sticktly based in racism and religious biggotry. Its not hard to see. All one has to do is take a good look at the Teabagger Party to see just how racist the conservatives are.

...another good reason why THE PARTY OF NO! HAS GOT TO GO!

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Aug 24, 2010, at 5:44 PM

"If, God forbid, the day comes when an American city is lying in radioactive ruins, nobody's going to care what the complexion of the president was or how he could speak. They'll want to know what the hell happened and how did these people leave us defenseless." -Dr. Sowell

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 24, 2010, at 5:40 PM

rr3yv0

Please list for us the other news organizations that have made a major political contribution to a political party besides Fox News.

Oh and they are only the number 1 cable news show and there are only 2 other cable news orgs. Try comparing Fox News to any of the big 3 network news shows and you will find Fox doesn't even come close.

Face the facts mate...Fox News and Newscorp are not the least bit interested in real news -- only right wing crazy propaganda.

Fortunately, the only folks who take Fox News seriously are the right wing crazies...the rest of us laugh at Fox News. Yeah we watch Fox...for a good laugh lol.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Aug 24, 2010, at 5:35 PM

News regardless of what you think Fox News is still #1 in NEWS. Do you really believe your so called real news organizations don't donate money to whom they want to influence and pick and choose what they want to publish or broadcast or are they really fair and balanced? I don't think you are that naive are you?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 24, 2010, at 3:33 PM

Oklahoma : Thank for the Joe Bageant article,now i am depressed,ha

-- Posted by Jo on Tue, Aug 24, 2010, at 12:49 PM

JHH you said, "Three times the mosque near Columbia has been raided by the FBI for funneling money to terrorists. Do you think it doesn't happen?" I believe I was very clear in my response which established that no, it did not happen.

Once again I have no idea where you got your information that led to your statement that is quoted above. It certainly was not in any link that you have posted thus far that relates to your comments on the subject. By the way you are also in error when you state that I did not read links that you posted. I did, as well as other information on the subject. Have you been bitten by the assumption bug?

Someone, the author of the missing link that is apparently the source of your statement apparently perverted the real story, and unfortunately you ran with it. It happens. However, the author of that misinformation is nothing but a Gossip. Unfortunately gossip is rampant on the internet, and deserves the same response as verbal gossip. Ridicule, disrespect, and exposure of a Gossip is the appropriate response, whether in a village, or on the internet.

Some may say "that is a harsh response, they didn't mean any harm", but gossip at times is malignant,and has tragic ends. It at no time has a positive effect. It behooves people of good character to disparage it, to punish it.

In the case at hand the idle statement by some at best stupid person has harmed every innocent Muslim citizen in Columbia, no in America. They are my fellow citizens, and I have got their back. If the fellow citizens of the Jews in Germany had adopted that attitude we would have avoided the holicaust. No real American patriot will allow the besmirching of the reputation of any class, or group of people because of the acts of a few that happen to be members of that group. It even goes deeper than that when one considers the admonition, you are your brother's keeper.

Now, I am through with the subject. Do not expect a response should you address this comment.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Aug 24, 2010, at 12:01 PM

rr3yv0

Looks to me that by persuading Republicans with a $1,000,000 political contibution, its not us who will be deciding anything but rather Fox News is the one deciding for us.

Nothing fair about that mate...or balanced...and they tried to not report it at all but they got busted by the real news organizations.

Fox News is nothing more than the Republican spokeschannel and not a news organization anymore after this loss of objectivity.

But then we always knew that about Fox News now didn't we?

OH and JHH,

In response to your claim that we entered WWII for the purpose of helping our allies...that is completely false. The Nation of Japan attacked us at Pearl Harbor. The next day Nazi Germany officially and publically declared war on the United States. We entered the war because we were attacked and because they declared war on us.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Aug 24, 2010, at 9:39 AM

Fox News Channel

#1 in News

We report. You decide.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 24, 2010, at 5:25 AM

You know news that comes with being #1 in news. There is always someone to tear you down to try to take your spot. It will only help Fox News rating just like when the president attacked them that didn't work either. Just like when you attack me news that doesn't work either.

Sounds as if the other news organizations have donated money also. Who is really guilty here? What are they guilty of? Has this passed peer review? Is there scientific evidence? Come on!!!!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 24, 2010, at 5:23 AM

"Watchdog devises way for Fox to 'report' news it 'skipped'"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/0823/wat...

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Aug 24, 2010, at 2:37 AM

OKR

You last comment was excellent mate! It was very informative and, clearly, you did your homework on that subject. Best of all, it was fun to read!

Nice work mate.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Aug 24, 2010, at 2:13 AM

After all the fussin that has been goin on I thought this might be a good time to post a link that most of us who post here right, or left will agree with, at least in part. I think Joe Bageant may be the best writer in America to get us to see beyond our differences, and to unite us in our real needs. Enjoy.

http://www.joebageant.com/joe/2010/08/un...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Aug 24, 2010, at 2:01 AM

Clarification regarding my last post. I said,"In this case, a very loud no." I meant to say, in this case, a very loud no it did not happen. Sorry for any confusion.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Aug 24, 2010, at 1:20 AM

Oh and JHH...

...When you called me "sorry" you were both incorrect and you were signalling that you had lost you could no longer defend your thesis.

The rules of debate prohibit personal attacks.

When you stop defending your argument and cross the line to personally insulting your opponent...it is clear that you have no argument left to make.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Aug 24, 2010, at 12:32 AM

JHH I waited, and waited for you to provide links that confirmed your statement that a mosque in Columbia had been raided three times by the FBI. You failed to verify your comment so I did some checking.

I do not know where you got your information, but it is a lie.

Apparently some not to bright, and perhaps confused person, posted somewhere that it had happened. I would like to see that link if you can find it.

I say confused because the only connection I found involving Columbia, Muslims, and the FBI was a raid on October 13th, 2004 at the headquarters of the Islamic American Relief Agency, a public charity. The federal government earlier that same day declared that the charity, along with seven, or eight others were "specially designated global terrorists". Their assets were frozen, and raids began.

This case, and follow ups by the FBI rocked on for years.

After all these years there have, finally this year, been convictions of some board members of the charity for illegally transferring funds to Iraq. It seems they were trying to set up their charity in Iraq, and had in fact met with Iraqi government officials to arrange it. They also admitted they had transferred funds to Iraq. That under U. S. law is illegal, and that was the sole basis of their conviction. Note they were not convicted of giving money to bad people. Ironically at the time (2004) it was illegal for almost any group to privately ship funds to Iraq for any reason, charitable or otherwise. Considering everything else our government was doing at the time regarding Iraq, it is no great surprise that they deemed private charity in Iraq verboten.

One interesting side note is that it appears the only other conviction was of a former Republican Congressman from Michigan. After he completed his lobbyist internship by serving as a U.S. Representative, he became a Washington lobbyist. Mark Siljander pled guilty to obstruction of justice , and acting as an unregistered foreign agent. Apparently he had contacted people in Washington on behalf of the charity attempting to get its name removed from the 2004 list.

So there you have it. No mosque in Columbia was ever raided by the FBI for funneling money to terrorists. In answer to your question at the end of your statement "Do you think it doesn't happen?". In this case, a very loud no.

If you find the site from which you got the false information you might want to consider avoiding anything it says because it is obvious the site jumps to really dumb conclusions.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Aug 24, 2010, at 12:32 AM

john henry's hammer

Freedom of Independence?

Well if you support the brutal invasion and brutal occupation of 3rd World countries (over 1 million innocent Iraqi civillians have been killed by American munitions...so far) that pose no direct National security threat to the United States then you sure are not supporting their freedom or their independence.

In addition, your assurtion that the United States can dictate to the rest of the World because of its size and wealth (the old, flawed, and morally corrupt "might makes right" argument) is ubsurd, illogical, unreasonable, with out any moral foundation, with out any legal foundation,...and the United States attempting to dictate to the rest of the World could, and would, have disasterous effects on our Nation and our way of life because the rest of the World would not stand for it.

You assertion that the USA has a responsibility to colonize the World is even worse than your assumption that the USA has the right to dictate to the rest of the World.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Aug 24, 2010, at 12:25 AM

JJH

In reference to Vietnam...as well as Iraq and Afghanistan and any other foreign war with a 3rd World country that posses no direct threat to the National security of the United States...

...America has not been authorized by a majority vote of the World's nations to be the World Police.

...America has no legal or moral authority to authorize itself to be the World's Police. We don't own the World. We are but one of many Nations of the World.

And regarding you position of the Israelis being the "Police of the Middle East" that you referred to in your Political Manifesto you posted here in this forum...

...The Israelis have not been authorized by a majority vote of the various Nations in the Middle East to be the Police of the Middle East.

...The Israelis have not been authorized by a majority vote of the Worlds many Nations to be the Police of the Middle East.

...The Israelis have no legal or moral right to authorize themselves to be the Police of the Mideast.

...The USA has no authority or right to dictate to the rest of the World who the Police of the Middle East are.

We can cast our vote in the United Nations General Assembly just like any other member nation, but we get one vote and every other country gets one vote -- no more, no less.

...And thus far no such election has ever taken place nor has any such authorization ever been given.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Aug 23, 2010, at 9:30 PM

"An informed electorate is the Democrat Party's worse nightmare." -Rush

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Aug 23, 2010, at 8:52 PM

Hate Speech?

You decide!

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Articl...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Aug 23, 2010, at 8:50 PM

Building Mosques on Sacred Sites of Defeated Enemies a Symbol of Conquest

http://www.hudson-ny.org/1496/mosques-on...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Aug 23, 2010, at 8:40 PM

News, thanks for the info and links to the NY project.

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Aug 23, 2010, at 3:16 PM

Just a broken link jhh. Nothing there either.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Aug 23, 2010, at 2:16 PM

So, Jhh do you have anything at all to support your statement that the Columbia mosque has been raided three times by the FBI?

I know that you consider my quest for answers to the startling accusation that you made a personal attack, but that is not the case. There are many valid reasons to want to know more about it.

First of all do we have something right here in central Missouri, in the intellectual center of our beautiful state no less, that is an immediate threat to our citizenry? I don't think so, but your statement was alarming.

Secondly, and no less important, is the statement just an ugly, dangerous lie that besmirches good Missouri citizens of a specific relegion? That is a fascist tactic employed by Hitler that brought on board the good German people to persecute the Jews, and ultimately resulted in their near extermination. Why? Because no one spoke up to give the truth to malignant lies. I consider it my patriotic duty as an American citizen to not allow any semblance of what happened in Germany to happen in America.

I would think that if you style yourself an American patriot, which I believe you do, you who are more privy to the source of your statement would be the first to investigate its veracity. For the first reason I stated even if you could not care less about the second reason.

What can you share with us about the alarm you sounded? Anything at all?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Aug 23, 2010, at 12:04 PM

Oh and we were not fighting tyrrany in Vietnam...we were fighting the Vietnamese People. Fortunately for them, we were no match for them. They lost about 3 million people and weren't even close to surrendering. That was nothing but more attempted empire building and like Afghanistan...our attempt at empire building in Vietnam was nothing but a horrible tradjedy for our nation. If their is a God, let's hope She forgives us all for what our Nation did to those folks in Vietnam.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Aug 23, 2010, at 10:41 AM

john henry's hammer

Regarding Sharia law...that is something that Muslims apply to themselves.

In civil litigation it is appropriate and lawful for the parties to agree to an arbiter. The arbiter has extremly wide powers and can make his ruling based on anything he wants including Sharia law.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Aug 23, 2010, at 10:36 AM

The wesite militanislam etc., could not be found. Anybody had any luck finding anything on the allegation, no statement, that the Columbia mosque has been raided three times by the FBI?

When trying to reach the above mentionrd link I got this: http://finder.cox.net/main?InterceptSour...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Aug 23, 2010, at 10:35 AM

john henry's hammer

Full Honorable mate with medals and ribbons.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Aug 23, 2010, at 10:30 AM

When people stop arguing the issues and start beating (verbally) on each other, more comments get deleted. Maybe it would be good to take a break for a day or two?

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Mon, Aug 23, 2010, at 8:26 AM

Oklahoma Reader

Did you ever read JHH's Political Manifesto he posted in this forum?

It revealed a great deal about JJH's view of the World.

After reading it, I stopped looking for any qualifications of his statements. I knew already that he rarely ever qualifies anything. I kinda stopped taking anything he has to say seriously after his statement that he supports forced sexual sterilization of poor people for having the audacity to have children while they are poor.

That told me all I ever needed to know about his opinions so I don't look for his qualifications any more...I think I have a pretty good idea where most of his political philosophy comes from already lol.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Aug 23, 2010, at 1:41 AM

Slater

The Cordoba House was the idea of Imam Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf. He is an American citizen who has spent most his life trying to help educate fellow Americans about Islam and Muslim culture in an effort to create a better understanding between the Muslim and non-Muslim communities in America.

http://asmasociety.org/about/b_rauf.html

The organization states that its purpose for constructing the Cultural Center is because,

"A need exists in New York City, America and the world to integrate Islamic education, spiritual development, the arts and culture under one roof. The Muslim community in NYC will build a world-class facility to promote tolerance, self-awareness and self-recognition within society. Both community driven and globally oriented, the center will serve as the platform to launch a broader vision of Muslim-West harmony and interdependence. The community center will satisfy the current need of a prayer space in the lower Manhattan area, making it the only prayer area opened for the five daily prayers below Houston (greater lower Manhattan)."

http://www.interfaithing.com/cordoba-hou...

That seems pretty reasonable.

I have not been able to find the date when the Imam had the original idea for the new Cultural Center or the date that they purchased the land. The land may very well have belonged to them for some time now since the organization has been around since the '60s serving the religous needs of many Americans in New York.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Aug 23, 2010, at 1:34 AM

Does anyone know why that particular site was chosen for this cultural center?

John Henry, if the FBI has "raided" the mosque in Columbia multiple times for sending money to anti-US terrorists, why is it still open? As a law enforcement/prison worker you should have some insight to share into how those things are dealt with.

How about you, rr3? What do you have to say about those raids in Columbia? You work or worked in the prison system so you should know about the kind of evidence needed to make a case.

What do you suppose would be the odds on that NY center being bombed or torched?

John Henry, what would be the point of putting your confederate flag on MLK's grave? Wouldn't it make more sense to put a KKK cross on it?

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Aug 22, 2010, at 11:44 PM

john henry's hammer

"Deserted this Country"? lol lol lol.

I am a Vietnam Era Army Veteran who served his country faithfully.

As to Australia...I don't remember checking my American Citizenship at the door. I am still just as American as the day I was born -- with all the same full rights as any other American...no matter what soil I happen to be standing on at any given moment. So get over it dude.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Aug 22, 2010, at 11:33 PM

mrxray

The Confederate flag was the flag of the enemy of our Nation. Those scumbags killed a lot of our soldiers. Why you would even want to own a flag of the enemy of the Uniteed States of America, I can't understand.

Anyway, unlike the Confederacy, These are American citizens who are building and plan to use this Cultural Center. They are not an enemy. These are good law-abiding citizens who wish to errect a building affiliated with their faith. That is their right.

There is no need for sensitivity since this building has nothing to do with 9/11, nor did these good folks who are building the Cultural Center have anything to do in any form or maner with 9/11 -- unless suffering along with the rest of us Americans counts. In fact, like all Americans, these good Americans were victims of the 9/11 attack. We all suffered that day our buildings went down and our countrymen died -- and by "all" I am including the good Muslim folks there in NY..

These folks in NY who are building the Cultural Center are our fellow Countrymen. These are our citizens and this building is their right. Its their right because their Constitution, the Constitution of the United States of America is the supreme law of the land and it says that this is their right.

If the only justification you can offer of your opposition to this Cultural Center in NY that is going up, is your own personal prejudice for Americans of the Muslim faith, then you have no reasonable foundation for your argument.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Aug 22, 2010, at 11:28 PM

News, Mrs Marple, anyone else.

I am STILL waiting for an answer as to how you cannot see the INSENSITIVITY of building a Mosque and/or community center or whatever other name they might throw onto it, so close to the very spot that MUSLIM TERRORISTS destroyed, attacked and killed on our own territory.

AND if you dont consider it insensitive then you would agree that I can fly my confederate flag on the grave of Martin Luther King Jr and no one should care at all?

Again, for those without common sense, it is NOT a freedom of religion or any other 'rights' issue, it is a common sense and sensitivity issue. Just because I have the RIGHT to so something does NOT make it the right thing to do.

This is NO different with you Libbies when you call those who oppose Obama or obama care racist simply because we disagree with his policies and agenda, you try to twist or blatantly disort reality into something that is not even the issue, NOR was it ever the issue.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Aug 22, 2010, at 10:44 PM

This is why Religion is so Dangerous, more than any Boom.everyone sound paranoid must be furstrating, and not at all healthy? (An opinion)

-- Posted by Jo on Sun, Aug 22, 2010, at 9:47 PM

End States Who Sponsor Terrorism

Fifty years of increasing American appeasement in the Mideast have led to fifty years of increasing contempt in the Muslim world for the U.S. The climax was September 11, 2001.

http://www.capitalismmagazine.com/war-pe...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Aug 22, 2010, at 9:33 PM

"Karzai: Private contractors 'looting and stealing,' working with terrorists"

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0822/karzai-...

Senators...end the War!!!

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Aug 22, 2010, at 5:50 PM

"The wife of the imam behind the Cordoba House Muslim community center in Manhattan says the opposition to its construction goes "beyond Islamophobia," likening it to a "metastasized anti-Semitism."

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0822/mosque-...

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Aug 22, 2010, at 5:39 PM

rr3yv0

Like I said mate, you dont have to like the Muslim Cultural Center soon to be built in New York...as long as you don't cross the line that says you can't stop them. Anyone who crosses that line will soon find themselves in prison. That is where we put lawbreakers mate.

Anyway, good luck in your vocal opposition to the cultural center lol lol lol.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Aug 22, 2010, at 5:27 PM

joh henry's hammer - I sure think that you ought to refudiate those "political 'fractions' that are negotating for hostage money to buy arms."

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Sun, Aug 22, 2010, at 5:10 PM

John I find it interesting the people that will tolerate the intolerance of the Muslim faith but have no tolerance for the Christian faith. I know one that even went so far to say that Islam is a beautiful religion. Makes you wonder where they have been.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Aug 22, 2010, at 2:54 PM

Taxedpayer,

Certainly I would not have a problem with it. At least I don't think it would be a problem in any of the churches I attend but I can't speak for all of them.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Aug 22, 2010, at 12:40 PM

Would a Muslim be welcomed in a Christian church?

-- Posted by taxedpayer on Sun, Aug 22, 2010, at 11:10 AM

Frankly taxedpayer I'm not interested in attending a mosque. I was just wondering if an infidel was welcome because I didn't know? Thanks for the info.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Aug 22, 2010, at 10:44 AM

rr3yv0,

You can. At least, I've never found a mosque, church or synagogue whose people weren't welcoming. I've visited all three kinds.

Or are you saying you wish all churches in the country were Christian churches where you would feel welcome and would find the surroundings and rituals familiar?

-- Posted by taxedpayer on Sun, Aug 22, 2010, at 10:04 AM

A church is not a physical structure so the speak without people a church is just another building. Christians could meet anywhere and that place or building could be considered a church. Would anybody be able to walk into a mosque looking for a place to worship? I would like to think I could walk into any church in this country and worship.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Aug 22, 2010, at 9:51 AM

Indeed, amid all the happy talk about "tolerance" and "building bridges," few people seem to recognize that, throughout Islamic history, the placement of mosques has been an expression of conquest and superiority over non-Muslims — and that the Ground Zero Mosque fits this pattern to a "T." Even its proposed name, "Cordoba House," is a reference to the Spanish city where, after it was conquered by Muslims, a church was converted into a mosque.

Thomas S. Winter

Editor in Chief, Human Events

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Aug 22, 2010, at 9:46 AM

Miss Marple

Good point!

Of course it really does not matter which it is...they have the constitutional right to build it and enjoy it with out physical interference of any kind from the Christofacists who want to stop these good people from enjoying their full right to Constitutional equality right here in THEIR own Country.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Aug 22, 2010, at 9:17 AM

The building to be erected near the World Trade Center is not a mosque. It is actually a cultural center that houses a prayer room. If putting a prayer room in that building makes it a mosque, then Fitzgibbon Hospital and every other hospital that contains a chapel is a church.

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Sun, Aug 22, 2010, at 8:22 AM

Sunday Quote

"Men despise religion; they hate it and fear it is true. To remedy this, we must begin by showing that religion is not contrary to reason; that it is venerable, to inspire respect for it; then we must make it lovable, to make good men hope it is true; finally, we must prove it is true. Venerable, because it has perfect knowledge of man; lovable because it promises the true good."- Blaise Pascal

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Aug 22, 2010, at 8:11 AM

The Incredible Design of the Earth and Our Solar System

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Aug 22, 2010, at 7:36 AM

Wow news your videos show you are really coming around to the belief in intelligent design. Man news believing in intelligent design and okr being a right winger now we're getting somewhere.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Aug 22, 2010, at 7:19 AM

okr your Frank Rich piece is not excellent analysis as news would lead you to believe. Its just a liberal opinion to try to justify the ruling class going against the will of the people. As for you attacking the way I post its not original news used to do that and it really doesn't bother me but it doesn't do much for your character. The debate would be much better if you post things that agree with your opinion and not worry about how I post mine. Sounds like you may be the one whipped and out of opinions.

Symbolism and Emotion: Further Arguments Against the NYC Mosque, Part II

http://www.capitalismmagazine.com/war-pe...

Ok news its your turn to post for okr.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Aug 22, 2010, at 6:58 AM

OKR

Thanks for the link to the Frank Rich piece.

Excellent analysis!!!!!

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Aug 22, 2010, at 6:28 AM

Frank Rich's column in the Sunday New York Times brings up some points concerning the Islamic Cultural Center to be built in Manhattan that have not been considered by the bigoted, the ignorant, and the hypocrites. Oh the hypocrisy of it all. Anyone who reads his column will know more about the situation than they did before they read it. Poor General Petraeus, read what Erank says is happening to him. It all comes together. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/22/opinio...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Aug 22, 2010, at 3:01 AM

"Intelligent Design Really Is Being Expelled!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXf8COiHM...

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Aug 22, 2010, at 2:35 AM

"Intelligent Design vs. Alien Intervention"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kp86gsHsc...

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Aug 22, 2010, at 2:16 AM

rr3 I see you have again run out of original comments. Why don't you spare us the copy, and paste of other's comments with no quotes? If you have nothing to say on a topic yourself just a link to what some one else says will suffice.

Purportedly you said,

The skeptical worldview The first and foremost principle is that all beliefs should be based upon observational evidence. Unlike theists, who base some of their beliefs on religious writings, skeptics must rely completely upon physical evidence. The second principle is that skeptics must----and so on.

Actually some one else said it. Right?

Not very Christian of you to steal other people's work. Then again you can probably justify any thing you want to justify by YOUR interpretation of the Good Book. Tsk, tsk.

I guess News Across has whipped you in argument so badly that you are now throwing the heavy artillery at him, in the form of someone else's work. Apparently you could not postulate the point yourself.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Aug 22, 2010, at 1:58 AM

rr3 - Am I understanding correctly that you work(ed) in the prison industry?

I've heard mention of the name Wackenhut as a national employer of jail/prison personnel, but I don't know what the demand is these days for workers in that area.

I'm guessing the facilities are full and more are needed, since crime is ever-present.

I'm all for more places like the one in Arizona that the well-known sheriff operates, the sheriff whose name I can't recall.

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Aug 22, 2010, at 12:07 AM

News Across: i have a tendency to agree with you on the Socialist Democratic Party! We already have socialist endeavors going on all around us! Taxes are socialistic,every Ball Stadium that's built is supported by socialistic Policy,until it gives all the Profits too Private Owner, that gets all kinds of incentives from the City wanting them to build in their Town! Up keep is socialized! That's quite profitable for Capitalist! Other business's get the spill over witch is very little compared to owners of the team,and what they have too pickup in taxes! Most of the ordinary working people can't go to a game (too expensive) and we pay most of the taxes! Socialism is what runs everything and keeps wars going. Does any of this make sense? This is the way i see it! I don't see that Capitalism in any way is good for what we have! With out regulation on everything,and they still get around the regulations,ha! Don't make any sense too me! These intellectual Legal minds can & will eat us common folks alive Socialism makes more sense for everyone.I'm still reading to try and make it all seem equal! Ha. Capitalism seems too be loosing! Social Security is the most effective safe keeping of the old! ss came in effect when i was born. after i got older i remember how happy my Granddad was to receive so little, but a lot to him, i guess!

-- Posted by Jo on Sat, Aug 21, 2010, at 10:05 PM

Funny xray how sad to see the incompetence of our government programs at work. But then we have some that think the government hiring all the unemployed would solve our unemployment problem very sad. Then again if government keeps extending unemployment benefits then are they really unemployed?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Aug 21, 2010, at 9:29 PM

Below is a story that highlights the fraud waste and abuse that is inherent in EVERY government program... however this story has some funny parts.... the scam was regarding male impotence and erectile problems.... the names of the companies charged with the crimes "Happy Trips: and "Charlie RX" AND they billed the govt for FEMALE patients and their erectile problems.....

However, since this took place in Florida, I am sure that this state has the highest incidence of these types of medical conditions.....

http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/08/16/17...

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Aug 21, 2010, at 8:46 PM

BP Oil Spill: Private Property is the Solution

How a Capitalist Government Would Handle the BP Oil Spill

http://www.capitalismmagazine.com/enviro...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Aug 21, 2010, at 8:34 PM

It took a year and a half... more if you count the campaign and the time after his election, before he took office, but Obama blamed someone else besides Bush for our economic problems??!?!?!?!!?!? Now it is still not HIS fault but Congress' fault... read between the line the republicans and those Dems bailing on him....

All while he took a Gulf Coast vacation, took a dip in the bay, then went on a 3 day campaign trip just to head off for another family vacation, all while telling us common folk we should pay MORE in taxes

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Aug 21, 2010, at 8:33 PM

sounds like Australia is not happy with their new chick PM.... interesting politics down under going on

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Aug 21, 2010, at 8:29 PM

news.. once again you are on the wrong side of the mosque issue... no one made a statement that said 100% for sure that the people wanting to build the mosque by the 9/11 site caused 9/11. AND it is not a religious freedom issue it is a common sense issue. In America, in case you have forgotten, we hold many places sacred, places of battles and importance, usually where people have been killed as innocents or serving their country.

In NYC there are already 100s if not 1000s of mosques so the question is NOT do they already have a place ro worship freely so in presence of NUMEROUS mosques the only question remaining is WHY that specific spot, AND if it is all innocent then the funding and specific people backing the mosque should be made public and they should allow anyone off the street to enter into their church, much like the famous Cathedrals do in most cities around the world.

AND any this mosque, if allowed to build, should deny publically any and all funds from nations that help terrorism, such as Iran and almost all of the middle eastern nations.

As I stated, I had nothing to do with the Civil war and slavery, nor did I have anything to do with the trampling of the rights of any minority in our nation's past. HOWEVER, I AM from the south and I believe in acknowledging the part the South played in the history of our nation, all of the good and the bad. So based on YOUR logic it is just fine and dandy for me to demand that a confederate flag be displayed at all monuments that memorialize the end of slavery and those who fought against civil rights abuses. After all it is a free nation all people and all thoughts have equal access to EVERY place in our nation correct?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Aug 21, 2010, at 8:26 PM

The NYC 9/11 Mosque: A Victory for Islamic Jihad

The Cordoba mosque will serve as a field headquarters for more Islamic dawa, meaning indoctrination, proselytizing, recruitment, and fund-raising, behind the fašade of a "community center."

http://www.capitalismmagazine.com/war-pe...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Aug 21, 2010, at 8:17 PM

Further Arguments Against the NYC Mosque

http://www.capitalismmagazine.com/war-pe...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Aug 21, 2010, at 8:15 PM

Our Problem Is Immorality

Do you believe that it is moral and just for one person to be forcibly used to serve the purposes of another?

Unfortunately, there is no way out of our immoral quagmire. The reason is that now that the U.S. Congress has established the principle that one American has a right to live at the expense of another American, it no longer pays to be moral. People who choose to be moral and refuse congressional handouts will find themselves losers.

http://www.capitalismmagazine.com/politi...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Aug 21, 2010, at 8:07 PM

speaking of Obama and all of his wonderful plans to save the economy and 'work for the common folk":

How about all of those millions of people failing out of the Obama housing rescue plan. Glad we spend our millions/billions to provide another hand out that fails

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=...

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Aug 21, 2010, at 8:06 PM

News... Clinton was ALSO warned of the 9/11 attacks and lets see, his response was to reduce the numbers a US military troops substantially to the point where our commanders were telling us that they could NOT fight two wars at once.... oh yeah, he also reduced the numbers of intelligence assests on the GROUND all across the world. There is enough blame to go around.

But lets get back to Bush... BUSH warned us all that our economy was tied to the housing debacle that Fannie/Freddie and Barny Franks and the leading Dems caused, clear back to the CRA from Carter's admin which was pushed hard during Clinton's term. YET once the warning was out there in the early 2000s from Bush and from McCain and once their predictions came true, Barny and clan in the Dems STILL try to blame Bush for the economic crash...

LOL You are STILL refusing to face up to reality .... must be nice to live inside a glass house with such rosy colored windows

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Aug 21, 2010, at 8:05 PM

The skeptical worldview

The first and foremost principle is that all beliefs should be based upon observational evidence. Unlike theists, who base some of their beliefs on religious writings, skeptics must rely completely upon physical evidence. The second principle is that skeptics must be logically consistent at all times. Even in the Bible, which claims to be a record of God's supernatural actions, over 90% of what is described is purely naturalistic.

One who insists that supernatural events never occur is expressing a belief that can never be fully confirmed. To be truly open-minded, one must recognize the possibility that supernatural events do occur.

Problem with the skeptical worldview

It is also possible that the cause of the universe was a supernatural intelligence (i.e., God). However, there is no direct observational evidence for either belief. Those who are "strong atheists" have just violated one of the main rules of atheism - that all beliefs are based upon observational evidence. So, any atheist who denies the possible existence of God violates his own worldview.

The physical laws of the universe fall within very narrow ranges in order for life (or even matter) to exist, suggesting some level of design.

If true, then the observational evidence actually leans toward the existence of God.

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Aug 21, 2010, at 7:57 PM

Wow news you really got it all wrong don't you. There might be someone that can help you with that.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Aug 21, 2010, at 7:44 PM

rr

If you want someone to be angry at for the attacks on 9/11...perhaps you might consider Bush and his Admninistration.

Bush was warned of an imminent attack on the U.S. by Al Qaeda using hijacked aircraft to attack targets. Bush was fully briefed...then he promptly left for a vacatiion in Texas. He gave no orders. He did nothing but go on vacation. A month later we were attacked by Al Qaeda using hijacked aircraft to attack targets with.

I don't know about you, but that kind of incompetance -- bordering on criminal negligence -- by Bush and other top Republicans makes me very angry. Prompt action on the warnings by Bush and top Republicans who were in charge of our Government probably would have saved thousands of lives. Instead Bush went on vacation.

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bin_Ladin_D...

http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.j...

http://www.slate.com/id/2098861

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Aug 21, 2010, at 6:45 PM

"At Pentagon, Muslims pray every day without protests"

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0821/pentago...

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Aug 21, 2010, at 5:48 PM

rr

You can be skeptical all you want mate. Of course its illogical to condem folks who have not done anything wrong...but I have seen conservatives in action before and they don't seem to be concerned with being right...just winning elections.

Anyway, conservatives are welcome to disaprove of building the Mosque in NY and conservatives can continue to be a religious biggots (a matter of low moral character). That is their choice mate and its there for the whole World to see...

...but if any conservatives step across that line that violates the civil rights of these good Americans who want to build that Mosque, they will find the courts can move very quickly. In fact, I predict we will seen a number of conservatives cross that line and go to prison over this matter before its all over.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Aug 21, 2010, at 5:45 PM

Still skeptical news.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Aug 21, 2010, at 2:47 PM

"At Pentagon, Muslims pray every day without protests"

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0821/pentago...

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Aug 21, 2010, at 9:04 AM

rr3yv0

To say that one is guilty without charge and without any evidence until one can prove themselves innocent is not the standard of Jurisprudence we use in America.

Unless you have physical evidence linking these good Americans who want to build this Mosque directly to the attacks of 9/11 -- which you haven't done and can't do -- then any reasonable person would presume you are simply blaming Muslim Americans for the criminal acts of 19 Arabs -- just because they share a belief in one of the Worl's largest religions. Franky sir, that is religious biggotry. Do you also blame all Catholics for the criminal acts of some perverted, preditory priests? How about the Jews? Do you blame all Jews for the acts of a minority of Jews demanding that Jesus of Naz be put to death by the Romans?

Please put aside your religious prejudice and respect the right of these good American citizens to build their House of Worship on the property they own. Please spare the rest of us your religious prejudice against Muslim Americans.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Aug 21, 2010, at 6:48 AM

Oh to be so naive news to think the ones behind the mosque are innocent. They may be but I remain skeptical.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Aug 21, 2010, at 5:21 AM

mrxray

Get real dude...the American Citizens who want to build a Mosque to worship in in New York had nothing to do with 9/11.

19 Arabs with the help of Bin Laden's money and an obscure Pakistani's planning brought down the towers. Please stop blaming innocent people who had nothing what so ever to do with that attack.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Aug 21, 2010, at 4:46 AM

mrxray

Yes I definately disagree with President Obama and the Democrats approach to the economy as I have stated many times...but going back to the neo-classical economic policies of the Republican Party that caused this Great Depression II would be the death knell of any hope for a recovery. Utilizing neo-classical economic policy would further fuel the spiraling deflation dramatically.

As an Independent voter and as an economist, my preferential approach is that of the Democratic Socialist Party.

http://www.dsausa.org/dsa.html

I certainly don't support capitalism nor do I support fascism and frankly both the Democrats and the Republicans look pretty much the same to me now days. They look like one political party -- the Unified Fascist Party -- to this independent voter.

Perhaps what we are seeing is the end of capitalism as we know it. Maybe capitalism is like an old car that never has run well and perhaps is on its last leg now. All the economic indicators are telling me we are in for one heck of bad time economicaly and we may never recover from this one. I remain highly skeptical of the paultry, watered down Keynesian approach of President Obama, I am extremely skeptical of the Republican neo-classical approach which was responsible for the depth of this depression, and I remain hopeful that this depression may spawn a renewal of interest in the socialist economic approach.

One thing is for sure...we need a new deal 'cause that capitalism isn't working out real well.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Aug 21, 2010, at 4:41 AM

the Muslims can build their mosque however, this issue is NOT about religious freedom and anyone with a lick of sense knows that. I could demand that someone display, permanently, a confederate flag at the gravesite of MLK Jr. They are opposing the building of walmarts and casinos at other battleground sites across our nation. This all about honoring a site that is sacred to many. AND because the man in charge of the mosque is unwilling to answer questions into his funding, unwilling to deny monetary contributions from Iran and other foreign sources that hate America, then we should be vigilant in our opposition to this mosque building. There are 100s of them already built in Manhattan so no one is denying them their right to worship at all.

Who is going to monitor all things that are brought into and taken out of the building or stored there? Are our police going to have an open door to search at will when ever they want, for explosives or weapons or terrorists?

Any other 'church' in America that had ties to militia groups, for example, would not be given the freedom to do anything they pleased without being investigated.

But that is not the point really anyway. The Progressives would rather ignore that terrorists are coming across our borders unchecked along with human and drug traffickers and criminals. They would rather ignore the common sense aspects of why people are opposing this mosque. AND they are quite willing to allow it to be build without questions being answered that could and are a security issue.

Osama told us that NYC and the trade towers were the alter of western religion (finances) and he tore them down and now they want to build up their own alter to show the world that they can.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Aug 21, 2010, at 4:29 AM

Army base/christian concert issue: I agree that religion should not be pushed in the military. Concerts should be publicized and the soliders should be given the opportunity to attend if possible.

However, having been in the Army there is a strong push to get the soldiers to attend concerts and special activities that civilians volunteer to conduct at military bases and sometimes there are over eager young officers and NCOs that take it to the extreme. In the attempt to show support for those that are willing to perform for the troops they can become too pushy and overbearing.

But if you have experienced stuff like this by your actual personal experience in the military you would understand that this has nothing to do with a specific religion but more to do with showing appreciation for things that people do for the troops. The chains of command can push troops to attend any type of event that happens on base. IF this were to happen at a country music or rock concert no one would say anything at all, but I saw this take place for these events all the time.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Aug 21, 2010, at 4:22 AM

Gotta love seeing Barny Franks doing the political stance dance.....

After Bush told us that Fannie/Freddie were on the verge of collapse and that with their collapse our economy would tank, and then Franks and other leading Dems claimed Bush was fear mongering and that F/F were sound and we should push on with the policy of having the federal government push home onwership onto people who may or may not be able to afford home ownership, he is NOW saying that F/F should be abolished and that the Federal Government should get out of the business of pushing people into home ownership..

Not long ago, Franks stated over and over that all people deserved to be home owners and that this was why F/F was a good thing even at the expense of the tax paying people and our economy.

NOW, he says that not all people should be allowed to own a home and that this is NOW a problem for our economy... this after our economy tanked due to a feel good, emotional type of entitlement program that snowballed into the economic problems that we have now

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Aug 21, 2010, at 4:15 AM

news you claim cutting entitlement programs at this time of horrible economic times would be wrong thing to do... HOWEVER to support the programs of MRS Obama, they are taking AWAY funding for food stamps to pay for her pet project, fighting obesity. Granted fighting Obesity is a good thing BUT by taking away money from people who have little or no income to pay for some pet project of the first lady is the RIGHT thing to do?

AND New Orleans has started a new state run school voucher program to increase the quality of their schools. This similar type of program that was run for several years in DC was defunded by OBAMA even though it was increasing the quality of education for ALL students.

The typical thought process that the government can fix all things much better than the local people who are involved with the specifics of their region is pure theoretical nonsense and is proven wrong over and over and over. Anytime the government gets involved, fraud waste abuse and corruption is rampant and adds high cost to the programs.

The progressives and liberals want their slave class of people that are not educated enough to understand that dependency is a mental disorder... all they care about are more voters that are uneducated

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Aug 21, 2010, at 4:06 AM

But here is something we don't have a right to do...

"Troops say they were punished for skipping Christian concert"

By STEVE SZKOTAK

updated 8/20/2010 7:06:05 PM ET

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38792399/ns/...

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 20, 2010, at 11:17 PM

That applies to any opinion mate...

We have the right to express our opinion provided we can find a voice for said opinion.

However, we don't have the right to stop a group of American Christians from building a new church on their own property and in full compliance with local building codes. Nor do we have the right to stop a group of Jews or Muslims from building a new temple or mosque on their own property and in full compliance with local building codes.

Your right to express your opinion is just as well protected by the Constitution. Both your right to voice your opinion and their right to practice their religion -- as well as your and their right to equality before the law (14th Ammendemnt to the U.S. Constitution) -- are part of that wonderful document that is at the center of what is often referred to as "the Great Democratic Experiment." We are a fortunate People.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 20, 2010, at 11:14 PM

Does that apply to your post also news.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 20, 2010, at 10:03 PM

rr3yv0

Folks don't have to like the Mosque...

...as long as they don't cross a line and try to stop the Muslims from building their Mosque on the property they own and in complete compliance with New York building codes...provided those codes don't violate their civil rights of course.

You can cry about it all you want...but their right to practice their religion and to be treated equally before the law come before your objections and matter more than your objections.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 20, 2010, at 10:00 PM

"Electing Barack Obama president is the equivalent of marrying somebody without knowing a **** thing about them until the next day."Rush

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 20, 2010, at 9:57 PM

john henry's hammer

Socialism is an economic system not a political system.

In addition, the Democratic Socialist Party fully supports our Constitution, our laws, and our form of Governement. They support our Democratic Republic very strongly and they support our civil rights with a gusto never seen on the right wing of our political system.

http://www.dsausa.org/dsa.html

As to guns in Australia. Every hunter I know owns a gun.

Many non-hunters also own guns here.

It is true that gun owner ship under Conservative Prime Minister Howard (the Australian equivalient of a Republican) did increase regulation of gun ownership but they certainly did not go door to door collecting guns. In fact, Australian Federal and State court systems would never have tolerated that. These folks take their rights against unwarranted search and seizure very seriously.

Gun owners here are merely required to pass a back ground check, show cause for gun ownership such as being a hunter, member of a shooting club, a police or private security officer, ect, follow regulations for carrying a weapon in public (must be licensed, gun must be visable, must be good security reason for carrying gun, must be approved by State Police and AFP), and follow hunting and transport of weapon regulations.

You really should get your facts straight before you post a comment mate.

Oh one other thing...yes I emigrated to Australia...but I am still an American who owns a resident in Missouri and who still votes in every election. We Americans don't shed our citizenship or our rights as Americans just because we happen to have a residence in another country or because we spend a lot of time in that country.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 20, 2010, at 9:54 PM

Like I said news you don't get it I said they have every right to build it just like you have every right to post here but we don't have to like what you say.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 20, 2010, at 9:42 PM

One thing about it news we will find out how the Democrats make every attempt possible to wreck this country with their lame duck congress. They will lose and yes my talent is on loan from God and CAPITALISM IS BOSS!!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 20, 2010, at 9:39 PM

rr3yv0

His claim that the First Ammendment is being used as a sword and not as a shield is highly subjective and frankly his opinion. It certainly is not fact and I think his opinion is full of holes.

What is wrong with insisting on one's First Ammendent rights?

After all...its a right...not a privalege.

No good American should ever wave his or her civil rights just to placate the majority. That would fly right in the face of the concept of and founding principles of our Democratic Republic.

I hope the good Muslim folks that own that property will build their Mosque as soon as possible. That is their RIGHT under our laws and our Constitution...and standing up for one's rights is never a bad thing.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 20, 2010, at 9:35 PM

News you still don't get it you should have attended the University of Reality. The ones responsible for this mess you voted for they are in charge thats why its not getting any better. Use the KISS principle news.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 20, 2010, at 9:33 PM

rr3yv0

Well...yes you have been predicting further economic downturn since President Obama was elected.

However, ths downturn began in December 2007 and the cause, prior years of neo-classical economic policies of the Republican Party, resulted in, amongst other things, fast rising unemployment and deregulation of the Banking industry which lead to the extremely, economically dangerous banking practice of trading in credit derivatives, which lead to the economic crash in 2008.

http://www.mafc.mq.edu.au/short_courses....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_c...

http://www.portfolio.com/views/columns/w...

The credit derivatives trading intentionally overvalued banking assets while hiding huge liabilities and ultimately resulted in a liquidity shortage the likes of which have not been seen since the last Great Depression in 1929. The negative shift from the equilibrium point along the Investment-Savings/liquidity-Money curve is frightening, and the resulting substantial decrease in jobs and consumption has left us being sucked down a deflationary black hole.

There were other conservative neo-classical economic policy failures as well.

The huge Republican/Bush tax-give away to the very richest Americans eliminated the budget surplus gains of the Clinton Administration. The Republican Party, under Bush's leadership and following the Republican Party's exclusive belief in and practice of neo-classical economic theory, put the money into the pockets of a lot of those folks in Big Banking that were busy trading in the highly risky credit derivatives market. This big Republican tax give-away to the rich reversed the precident of a balanced federal budget set under the Clinton Administration, and rather than going to help pay down the National Debt, it went into the pockets of rich fat cats who are now much richer...while so many who were once in the middle class are now much poorer and unemployed.

President Obama has attempted to use a very watered down version of Keynesian economics in an attempt to increase consumption and release pressure on liquidity (watered down to placate the conservatives). His measures were a mere stop-gap. The "Stimulus" was never enough to cause a recovery. I predicted the long-term failure of this attempt to stimulate the economy at the time the stimulus bill was passed. It fell way to short to do any long-term good. He was attempting to stimulate the economy by injecting more money into the economy. His failure was in the way he tried to infuse the economy. The result was that it had no more effect than one would expect from the tax multiplier which is not nearly big enough to cause an economic recovery.

I have been saying since the days this began under the Republicans that only direct, immediate government hiring of the unemployed in long-term, good paying (middle class wages), jobs with good benefits rebuilding our infrastructure and creating a new green enery structure along with economic and legal incentives for the return of our manufacturing base will save our economy. Any thing short of those measures is at best a temporary fix.

We need action -- that is for sure, but going back to the same Republican economic policies that caused this economic depression in the first place is not the answer and would only make things much, much worse.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 20, 2010, at 9:23 PM

News he said we should not use the first amendment as a sword but we should act as Americans. Example News if you and I were neighbors and we know what we know about each other now would it be neighborly of me to erect a cross or a nativity scene facing your house. Lets say I have never done such a thing I was just doing it for your benefit would I be a good neighbor? I think they have every right to put a mosque there but is it the right thing to do. He also said that groundbreaking for this mosque would be 09/11/2011 now does it really have to be on that day? I think it is blatant disregard and disrespect for the American people but they can still do it if they want.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 20, 2010, at 8:02 PM

"Fox host [Peter Johnson, Jr., Fox News Legal Analyst]: 'Muslim [American citizens] should 'give up their rights' and not rely on the First Amendment'"

In his piece he also tells us that "Great Americans give up their [civil] rights"

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0820/fox-mus...

I think anyone who voluntarily gives up their civil rights as spelled out by our Constitution and interpreted by the Courts is voluntarily committing a very anti-American act. We should never, ever do as Fox News seems to be suggesting...give up our civil rights -- never, never, never!

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 20, 2010, at 7:44 PM

News I agree and have been saying that all along but I was really hoping that I would be wrong.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 20, 2010, at 7:23 PM

"Economic forecaster: 'Greatest Depression' coming"

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0820/economi...

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 20, 2010, at 6:29 PM

"If a program expands the deficit, by law, it has to have a sunset. It has to end. But the Democrats wanted Obamacare to be perpetual. So they had to lie that it will reduce the deficit $118 billion. Now they're telling Democrats to forget talking about cost savings. Instead, talk about the improvements to health care. It was a big lie, and we all knew it." -Rush

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 20, 2010, at 5:29 PM

It took about 2 seconds to roll back to the 5th okr just scroll down. Funny you speak of heavy handed neglect of the conservatives for the unfortunate. Hmmmmmmmmm. The liberals make entire careers out of the unfortunate because the only way they maintain power is to perpetuate the unfortunate. So to do away with the unfortunate would ruin some of their careers.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 20, 2010, at 5:26 PM

I am not going back to the piece rr3, it takes too long to roll back to August 5th, but my recall is that my right winger comment was part of a broad satirical jab at the heavy handed neglect by conservatives of the unfortunate.

I meant those conservatives who regularly dismiss all that are in poverty as low lifes that prefer to do nothing. It has been a feature of conservative polemics for centuries. The Irish plight is just one of many I chose to be the base of my satire.

Most when you pin them down, back off, and admit that there are many who are in desperate circumstances,and add "I wasn't talking about them". That illustrates part of my point. That group of conservatives never mentions the unfortunates that they grudgingly admit do exist. It is always those that illustrate worst case that they talk about. What is the significance of that?

It could be many things, but most likely a combination of factors. Putting the best face on it perhaps it is just that those poor conservatives can't bear to think about, or mention justified hard ups because it tears their compassionate hearts to pieces.

More likely though it has its origins in baser emotions, greed for instance. Such as I don't want those lazy ( insert favorite racial group, or class here) to get something for nothing. Folks like ME would reap more material rewards if we weren't having to take care of those rotten b**tards.

Maybe part of it is a rationalization of subconcious guilt.

Whatever it is, and it could be other things, the result is that many percieve it as harshness, and lack of compassion, that in its extreme borders on sociopathy.

In denouement, I must say that I do not tar all conservatives with this brush. Henry Bellmon was a conservative Republican, and if not the best Governer Oklahoma ever had, he was unarguably one of the best. Whatever the reason those of whom I speak have a certain nastiness about them, they exhibit an insularly driven false grace that makes most of us at the least uneasy.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Aug 20, 2010, at 2:02 PM

HAPPY COST OF GOVERNMENT DAY!

Obamunist ought to be proud this is the latest it ever has been.

Enjoy the rest of your 134 days this year! Finally, the average American has paid off his or her share of the cost of big government spending.

http://www.freedomworks.org/blog/jborows...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 20, 2010, at 12:57 PM

News I don't know if you are qualified to make that statement. Do you have the scientific evidence, has it passed peer review and do you have proof it was taken out of context? Unless you are batting for okr now I guess only okr can answer that now can't he?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 20, 2010, at 12:46 PM

Duh news I'm glad you enlightened me because I may have never figured that one out. Thanks mate!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 20, 2010, at 12:34 PM

rr3yv0

Your quote alleged to be OKR's statement? It reads as if it was taken out of context and is someting he have been saying with some level of sarcasm.

Perhaps you merely misunderstood his statement.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 20, 2010, at 9:21 AM

Democrats Told To Stop Campaigning On Obamacare

Democrats should avoid making the claim that Obamacare will reduce costs and cut the deficit.

http://www.redstate.com/erick/2010/08/20...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 20, 2010, at 8:22 AM

Just announced that health care cost will increase 8.9% next year. I thought that the passage of Obamacare would save us money. Did they lie? I just can't believe they would do that I guess it is a see I told you so.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 20, 2010, at 8:04 AM

Bill Maher I don't listen to and I am not a fan. I refuse to stoop to his level. He makes money bashing America and religion among other things and I don't think he's funny. But to each his own. Being a fan a Maher reveals a lot about that person being on an intellectual equal level of hating America and religion. Amen.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 20, 2010, at 7:44 AM

Distracting Republicans with the Ridiculous and Absurd

But don't expect this to be the end of completely irrelevant questions asked to GOP candidates. The media senses that the end is coming for Democratic reign in Congress, and that every second Republicans are reminding people of the damage the Democrats have wrought just hastens the process.

http://www.redstate.com/lexington_concor...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 20, 2010, at 6:50 AM

How soon we forget!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 20, 2010, at 6:42 AM

And that's how we got Jack Kennedy one of my favorite presidents. Oh gosh, I guess he can't be that anymore since I am now a right winger.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Aug 5, 2010, at 11:51 PM

Now okr I guess I showed you.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 20, 2010, at 6:40 AM

"Bill Maher On Religion" and on Reason...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlP09x2kx...

Excellent!!

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 20, 2010, at 6:21 AM

OKR

lol...

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 20, 2010, at 2:45 AM

Jhh, and rr3 your statements that you were both prison hacks goes a long way toward explaining your attitudes toward the down trodden. Aha!

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Aug 19, 2010, at 11:50 PM

Re: Bill Maher. Hilarious, and on the money with his observations.

rr3: I do not believe I have ever said I was a right winger, nor inferred it.

I live in Oklahoma, but I was born 'n' raised in Missouri. Show me.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Aug 19, 2010, at 11:45 PM

JHH

I disagree...I think he makes an excellent argument...and uses humor to make his point with.

I enjoyed watching it and I hope others did as well. It certainly is based in truth...and he cites excellent, specific examples to do it.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Aug 19, 2010, at 11:05 PM

Some peoples sanity has taken a long walk off of a short pier quite some time ago but it doesn't keep them from talking.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 19, 2010, at 8:29 PM

Bill Maher discusses Conservative "Think Tanks":

"You can't call it a "think tank" if all your ideas are stupid."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcJohfS4v...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Aug 19, 2010, at 7:15 PM

You are the one that said it okr in one of your post not me.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 19, 2010, at 5:48 PM

"The economy is sinking fast, there's no end in sight, and Obama is doubling down on all the things that have caused it to plunge -- and, meanwhile, seems more focused on making sure a mosque gets built at Ground Zero than he is on his own country's economy." -Rush

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 19, 2010, at 5:46 PM

rr3 what on earth gave you the perception I am a right winger? I have opinions that run the gamut from left to right, but more to the left, most would say. I don't think I can be pidgeon-holed. I support some libertarian positions for instance. One thing I do not support is Corporatocracy, too darn close to fascism for my tastes. People left or right can be opposed to that. All you have to believe is one person, one vote. Democracy.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Aug 19, 2010, at 5:45 PM

John interesting article I know when I worked for the prison system the women prisons were worse to work in. The women are more violent and nastier than the men think about being.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 19, 2010, at 5:43 PM

It goes to show we can't legislate morality. We have tried and it doesn't work. Take affirmative action they put one race or gender above another and perpetuate the very problem it was supposed to solve.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 19, 2010, at 5:38 PM

John Henry - If I read your post a thousand times, the meaning wouldn't change one bit, and your latest only reinforces my first impression of your gender bias.

I once told someone on here that I believe in the goodness and the clear thinking of others until and unless I'm proven wrong by their statements or actions. You keep on talking the way you did in your latest and I may change my mind about you. Worries you stiff, doesn't it. (chuckling)

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Aug 19, 2010, at 1:46 PM

Okay, John Henry, I'll take your words at face value and say that you've placed all females above all males, including yourself.

Yes, the human race is a matriarchal society in spite of what many males would have us believe. Females have been the sustenance of our existence from the very beginning, and I believe males simply are jealous of this stature. What other compelling reason explains why females are still fighting for equality?

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Aug 19, 2010, at 9:09 AM

rr3 - still thinking you're onto my game, eh? I do apologize for confusing you; you'll just have to learn how to read between my lines.

Laughter is the best medicine, you know. Keep it up, even when you don't know why you're laughing.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Aug 19, 2010, at 8:55 AM

Solutions for America

http://thf_media.s3.amazonaws.com/2010/p...

Warning:This link contains positive ideas and the truth. Read at your own risk.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 19, 2010, at 7:58 AM

Flaming Hypocrisy and the Convenient Constitutionalists of the Fringe Political Elite

Compare the demands of the political elite and their sycophants on the mosque issue with their condemnation of NewsCorp.

http://www.redstate.com/erick/2010/08/19...

The Growing Detachment of the Political Class

But they'll keep telling us the same thing over and over trying to force us to believe them.(Sounds like someone we know)

http://www.redstate.com/erick/2010/08/18...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 19, 2010, at 7:50 AM

All the days of the afflicted are evil, But he who is of a merry heart has a continual feast. ( Proverbs 15:15 *NKJV )

The thoughts we have today dictate what our future holds for us tomorrow. Therefore a person who has positive thoughts shall have positive results, just as a person who has negative thoughts shall attract negative results in their life.

Happy are the people who are in such a state; Happy are the people whose God is the Lord! ( Psalms 144:15 )

May everyone have happy and positive thoughts and feast continually.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 19, 2010, at 7:14 AM

Stop Racial Pandering

Part of what led me to leave the Democratic Party was its obsession with racial, ethnic and gender politics.

http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/chavez...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 19, 2010, at 5:43 AM

Well now okr you told us you were a right winger now. What happened?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 19, 2010, at 5:30 AM

Don't worry Slater I don't take this too seriously I laugh when ever I read one of you post. So I do have a sense of humor. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 19, 2010, at 5:28 AM

Slater good to see you commenting again. Yup. I fess up that I know Slater a little bit. I will vouch that he is one of the nicer, more considerate people around. That is except when he tussles with News Across, then all bets are off. ;) But then that info will probably endear him to you guys on the right all the more? ;(

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Aug 19, 2010, at 12:12 AM

John Henry - As has been mentioned on here previously, it's very difficult to know the intent of the person making comments, since we don't know one another personally. You and most everyone would have a hard time knowing when I'm joking and when I'm not. OKR knows me and even he had a bit of a tussle knowing if I was having fun with the Limbaugh/Coulter stuff. No, actually, he was unsure how to take that article he posted the link for.

rr3 didn't know my intent, so I explained myself. I told you I was pleased that you have a regard for women. Since I don't know you personally I have no way of knowing whether you honestly believe that females should have equal status with males.

My thought is that if a person truly believes that all people are equal - as stated in our Constitution - then you'd be treating ALL people, male and female, alike - holding chairs, opening doors, offering assistance, and so on.

Based on the general tone of your posts, I'd say you're a decent sort of person. However, I don't have to agree with you philosophically in order to say that.

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Aug 18, 2010, at 11:57 PM

Dennis Kuchinich is no corporate shill. As usual he is ahead of the game with the guts to call out his colleagues in the House of Representatives.

He is a gutsy, and honest legislator saying now about Afghanistan what the rest will say in another year, or two.

I hope that he runs for President against Barak Obama in the 2012 Democratic primary.

Stop our nations longest war. A war that though the longest, has the least identifiable success.

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/201...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Aug 18, 2010, at 11:37 PM

John Henry - from the dictionary:

"Parody: a literary or musical work in which the style of an author or work is closely imitated for comic effect..."

FirePlug was imitating the minds on the right, which I stated in my response to rr3.

I'm pleased that you show females respect, but obviously you don't believe in equal rights for women. Your statement that they should be found in the home makes that point clear. Raising children is the responsibiliity of BOTH parents, not just the female.

Females should enjoy every right that males enjoy, and that has nothing and everything to do with politics.

As for JE Hoover, I have no idea about his political persuasion, but it's been said that he indulged in some kinky sexual activities. As far as I know, he didn't act out while on the job, so what he chose to do on his time was his business.

Do you believe his private life influenced the way he did his job?

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Aug 18, 2010, at 5:27 PM

...and one or two other thoughts, rr3.

I couldn't care less about Limbaugh's drug habit, or about Clinton "not inhaling," or Obama's cocaine snorting. That kind of stuff is fodder for the National Enquirer - you know, that tabloid focusing on all of those "great minds" who just HAVE to know.

You're not onto my game, rr3. If you were, you'd stop being so serious all the time and have a laugh or two along with me.

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Aug 18, 2010, at 12:09 PM

rr3, you should listen to yourself - you accuse me of doing the very same thing you do in every one of your posts.

I make fun of people like Limbaugh, because to me they're full of hot air and nothing more, BUT, they CAN be dangerous, when people who always let others think for them start taking their nonsense seriously. If Limbaugh and his crowd EVER had an original thought, I'd be shocked and amazed.

If Obama and his cast of "great minds" start making smart decisions I'll be shocked and amazed.

I'm not a liberal, I'm not a conservative, I'm not very smart, but I AM smart enough to know what that stuff is that bulls produce.

By the way, I couldn't care less about Limbaugh's sexual orientation.

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Aug 18, 2010, at 11:54 AM

Slater I think you are confusing being conservative and ones faith is the same thing. Christians do tend to be conservative and conservatives tend to be Christian. I cannot figure how you can be Christian and liberal or pro-abortion.

I guess the liberals can't give some things up. Rush went to rehab for his drug problem and as far as we know he is still clean. But then we have Bill "I never inhaled" Clinton and Barack "I snorted cocaine once" Obama why not refer to them as drug addicts. Oh I know its because you agree with them and anyone you disagree with instead a arguing the facts lets just call them a drug addict. I'm on to your game Slater.

If Rush is gay I must be too because his new bride is 'LOOKIN GOOD'.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Aug 18, 2010, at 11:22 AM

Here's a quote from a member of the Green Party:

"What I want to know is, how can a person be gay and be a conservative at the same time?

Conservatives have always denounced homosexuality, so it makes no sense to me, just like it's senseless that a woman would be a conservative, considering how male conservatives view women as being second-class." - FirePlug

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Aug 18, 2010, at 10:33 AM

Heh heh...No, rr3, it would be Rush Coulter, or Rush Limbaugh-Coulter.

Hey OKR, I didn't know Rush is gay!

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Aug 18, 2010, at 10:11 AM

Very good okr

It's nice for when you have to sit

to be able to read these words of wit.

Liberals come and liberals go

but will be defeated by the party of no.

They set on their tush and make their claim

but in the end who do they blame.

They claim truth is their fare

but really they are full of hot air.

Lets not forget when we go through the polling gate

that we are retiring them back to their state.

Everyone exercise your right to vote

before you get an IOU note.

Thanks and CAPITALISM IS BOSS!!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Aug 18, 2010, at 5:49 AM

rr3:

You have had your little fun,

enjoyed your time in the sun,

and we hope that you are done.

Could it be you are sad a bit,

find your own stuff inadequate?

You forgot to stop and think.

If not your words, use a link.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Aug 18, 2010, at 1:22 AM

More Rush quotes for the liberals reading pleasure.

"It did strike me as a little ironic out there, folks, that the same Barack Hoover Obama who called people 'bitter' for clinging to their guns and religion feels like he can lecture us on the constitutional right to freedom of religion." Rush

"'Imam Obama' is the Media Tweak of the Day. You know, yesterday I said Obama's the first anti-American president in history. That worked! They had cows over there at MSNBC." Rush

"Let me see if I understand this right. We have to get out of Iraq to show our sensitivity, and we have to close Guantanamo Bay out of sensitivity, but we can't say no to Muslims building a victory monument at Ground Zero, which is what this mosque is." Rush

"Don't tell me the Ground Zero mosque is all about religious freedom for the left. Check and see what happens to a pro-life group protesting an abortion clinic if you want to talk about religious freedom." Rush

"The fact that people are broke... there's nothing new about that; that's been happening since we invented money. But all of a sudden now in America, if you're broke, and you happen to have supported a Democrat, the American taxpayer's going to pay you back." Rush

"If Obama is not the first anti-American president, who is? Maybe I should have been more respectful to Imam Obama, peace be upon him." Rush

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Aug 18, 2010, at 12:14 AM

Excepting to his "Ditto Heads", Rush is a big fat liar. The only thing that he has legitimately proven is a delicious irony, that being that a person can be a drug addict, show up for work every day, not slur words, and inspire a lot of people.

So much for drug testing in the work place. Think about it. All those folks that think Rush does an amazing job might want to begin lobbying to remove Oxycontin from the group of drugs that are screened in the work place.

The folks that use it (if Rush is any example) may be just as amazing in the jobs that they are currently barred from undertaking. Such a lobbying effort could adopt a Palinesque rallying cry like "how's that Oxy workin for you?". Or the more dignified "better working through chemistry". Watcha think?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Aug 18, 2010, at 12:02 AM

Not so fast on Rush, and Ann Coulter hooking up. I am truthfully not sure whether this is satire, or expose', you decide. http://blog.buzzflash.com/Contributor/35...

Ann may be more likely to hook up with one of Rush's exs. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Aug 17, 2010, at 11:33 PM

John I commend your ability to articulate your thoughts. I find it easy to think about what you want to say but not so easy to put it in writing.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 17, 2010, at 9:59 PM

"So Obama is out in Hollywood causing a giant traffic jam at a $30,000-a-plate fundraiser. Wasn't it in California that he talked about bitter clingers who hold onto their guns and their...what? Their religion, right? Now, who is it that sounded like a bitter clinger here? Is it not Imam Obama?" -Rush

Obama attempted to clean up his mosque gaffe quicker than the gulf oil spill!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 17, 2010, at 9:13 PM

No news you are absolutely wrong I have explained time and time again at the risk of sounding like you bragging about your education. Don't tell me I haven't done something when you refuse to listen maybe John was right you didn't even read it.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 17, 2010, at 8:17 PM

News the government has too big a footprint in the market place. Just like the unions the government is inefficient, stifle competition and drag down productivity. But we see this government propping up the unions and their unsustainable benefit packages. Inefficiency at the maximum to stifle capitalism and hiring.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 17, 2010, at 8:14 PM

rr3yv0

No you have never even addressed the question and every reader here knows that whether they say so or not.

You say economic depressions are self-correcting.

Please explain in detail how that happens.

You have given us effect...what is the cause?

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Aug 17, 2010, at 8:14 PM

Oh by the way Slater you're welcome!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 17, 2010, at 8:05 PM

Hey Slater if he was married to her would that be Ann Limbaugh?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 17, 2010, at 7:52 PM

News I gave you the answer whether you agree or not or could be over your head. I just don't know what to tell you!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 17, 2010, at 7:51 PM

rr3 - thank you for sharing the drug-induced babbling of Limbaugh.

Is he married to Ann Coulter?

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Aug 17, 2010, at 7:29 PM

rr3yv0

How would the economy have self-corrected in 18-24 months during Great Depression I? as you claim?

What mechanism would have caused this?

Magic maybe?

I await your answer with great expectations.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Aug 17, 2010, at 6:45 PM

"What happened to all of those 'shovel-ready jobs' Obama promised to fund with the Porkulus bill? It looks to me like the only 'shovel-ready job' is going to be the job of burying the Democrat Party." -Rush

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 17, 2010, at 5:20 PM

The government increased spending in the great depression made it last about 5 times as long as it should have. The great depression would have corrected itself in 18-24 months if left to its own devices the private sector. I would think someone with a BBA would know that. It's hard to get a good education these days.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 17, 2010, at 1:02 PM

Lower taxes and limited government spending have always led to an increase of revenue to the government. Kind of like abstinence news it works everytime it is tried.

I do agree news that this economy is going to get worse as long as the current administration is in charge. I think everyone that voted for Obama owes the American people an apology. What do you think?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 17, 2010, at 11:36 AM

john henry's hammer

I hold a BBA with double majors in Accounting and Economics, Middle Tennessee State University, Class of '91.

I don't have to pretend lol lol lol...

You may not like my forecast or even think it has validity but one thing is for sure...you are one of hundreds of millions of Americans who will have to live with the ever worsening economy. Worse yet, if conservatives manage to carry out their plans to severly cut social programs, the bottom will most likely fall out of the economy entirely and relatively soon after those neo-classical policies are put into place.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Aug 17, 2010, at 10:51 AM

john henry's hammer

In economics we define both recession and depression exactly the same...a period of declining prices accompanied by high unemployment. I know you have probably heard some economists refer to a recession as a mild economic downturn. Trust me, there are a lot of economists winking and nodding with that one. This may surprise you, but a lot economists worry the truth might scare the bejesus out of folks. I don't worry about it. I think I have a responsibility to call a period of deflation just what it is...a depression.

Interstingly enough, FDR ordered Government Economists to refer to deflationary periods as "recessions" after he took office. He was concerned of the ramifications of the term "economic depression" on the minds of the American People. His concern was well founded. After years of depression, Americans were probably terrified of the words "economic depression," and indeed it is ultimately consumers' outlook of the economy that has the greatest effect on the economy. As FDR said, "All we have to fear is fear itself." Fear of, or confidence in, the perceived future of the economy ultimately drives present consumption decisions. So now we call deflationary periods "recession" instead of depression...but they are defined the same in the field of Economics.

The current depression is the worst economic downturn -- depression/recession -- we have experienced since the last crash in 1929, and if phantom unemployment -- those folks who are no longer on the unemployment roles but remain unemployed -- is as high as many of my colleagues believe it is then the actual unemployment rate would be roughly double the unemployment rate reflected by the number of people collecting unemployment insurance payments...around 20% to 22% total unemployment, including phantom unemployment...which puts the effective, current unemepoyment rate close to the estimated 25% unemployment of the last Great Depression.

The current period of deflation began in December, 2007. It has not yet relented. Concepts such as a "jobless recovery" are meaningless and misleading. There is no recovery until employment recovers. With out good paying jobs with good benefits and long term employment prospects, consumption -- particularly consumption of new housing starts and durable goods -- will continue to drop over the long run, resulting in futher job cuts and even furher decreased consumption...and on and on in what amounts to a domino effect. Yes mate, it is a Great Depression...the greatest since the last Great Depression, and its even possible that our economy may never return to its peak seen during the Clinton years.

In my professional opinion, we should begin immediate, direct Government hiring of as many of the unemployed as we can and put them to work rebuilding our infrastructure. This would substantially increase consumption of durable goods and new housing starts...increasing employment even further and creating significant levels of new, good paying jobs in the economy. In addition, the new Government consumption of resource products such as steel, concrete, lumber, ect, would create even more new jobs in the economy as both producers and retaliers scramble to recruit new-hires to keep up with the increased sales. In turn all these newly employed would continue to fuel consumption and spur on the creation of even more new jobs...in a reverse domino effect.

In my professional opinion, only the Federal Government, already the largest single employer in the United States, has the power to creat the kind of massive employment we need to reverse the deflation and create real recovery.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Aug 17, 2010, at 8:11 AM

I see the Democrats have their acronym for the 2010 election. B.I.O.B.(Blame it on Bush) Wow thats a new idea boy I'm glad someone has some new ideas. Why couldn't the Republicans come up with something as original as that. Wow!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 17, 2010, at 7:23 AM

Obamacare worth 17.5K dead women a year?

http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2010/08...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 17, 2010, at 6:49 AM

The Democrats' Disaster: More Americans Question Barack Obama's Birth Story Than Support the Ground Zero Mosque

http://www.redstate.com/erick/2010/08/17...

Democrats Obfuscate

Starvation seems a bit excessive but apparently well within the range of ideas Democrats are willing to pursue so long as potential votes and donors are appeased.

http://www.redstate.com/haystack/2010/08...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 17, 2010, at 6:44 AM

I appreciate your support John but someone has to stand against the lies of Mr. Economist. I think with you and I posting the truth, it only shows their true colors so post on. Thanks and CAPITALISM IS BOSS!!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 17, 2010, at 6:30 AM

jjjeremy

The current Great Depression began in December, 2007 and is the direct result of the Republican Party's use of neo-classical economic policies.

In additon, it is not a World Depression. Yes many nation's economies were also affected by they American economic crash, however not all the World is in economic depression.

The Chinese are doing very well. Sweden is doing very well. Norway is doing very well. Australia is doing very well (lots of jobs here mate!)...just to name a few.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Aug 17, 2010, at 3:39 AM

Reading many entry's in this post by certain folks is like groundhog day(THE MOVIE WHEN EACH DAY REPEATS ITSELF) . Politicians have us tied right where they want us. Hold on to common sense. Quit blaming republicans and quit blaming democrats. "The republicans were in control when the economy sank." Sorry to inform you but the global economy tanked not just the US economy. What about Bill Clinton's terms that were republican controlled in the house and senate. THIS IS AN COMMON SENSE AMERICAN FIGHT NOT A IDEOLOGICAL FIGHT

-- Posted by jjjeremy on Tue, Aug 17, 2010, at 1:20 AM

JHH I think that we are going to have to flat out reject every darn one of those in congress who are sucking at the corporate teet, or to be fair, at the large union teet.

We can make third parties viable. I predict it will happen, though not in this election cycle. It will come about because nearly all are addicted to payola, therefore will not do anything for the average American citizen, nothing needed will be done. Eventually we will all be disgusted,and in desperation vote for anyone other than a Democrat, or Republican. They are slowly destroying themselves by failing to act in the best interests of the human citizens. Gridlock don't get er done.

Thanks for askin.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Aug 17, 2010, at 1:09 AM

rr3yv0

Yes I am an economist.

As to how economies work...well that is what we economists study.

As to the proof of economic theory, like any scientific theory, it lies within the empirical evidence.

I don't view economics from a political stand point...I view the data as an economist.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Aug 17, 2010, at 1:03 AM

I used to be amazed at the Mad Hatter Tea Party logic of the fascist right, but not any more. One of the things that they excel at is painting with a broad brush. For example, Jews killed Jesus, ergo Jews are all bad people, and must be punished. Muslims destroyed The WTC, ergo all Muslims are bad people, and must be punished.

The funniest thing though is that they are very selective as to when, or where they apply their twisted logic. I have never, ever heard a single one of them say white people enslaved Africans, mutilated, raped, and killed them, therefore all white people are bad, and must be punished. I also have never, ever heard them say white people killed, lied to, broke promises, and tried to eradicate native Americans, therefore all white people are bad, and must be punished.

Nope, they reserve their one size fits all punishment for minorities. It is kinda like a selective bully in the school yard who specializes in beating those who are different. Well, no, it is exactly like that.

America, love it in all its diversity, or leave it.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Aug 17, 2010, at 12:56 AM

The Social Security bogey man is coming to get us. The neo fascist Republican Party as represented in Congress is nearly unanimous in their desire to destroy social security. They are joined by some undercover fascists masquerading as Democrats.

The truth is that they are lying about the fiscal vulnerability of the seventy five year old social security program. It is reason enough to turn out every one of the devious rascals when they stand for reelection.

Read this, and wake up America. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/16/opinio...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Aug 16, 2010, at 11:23 PM

What happened to my comments on my last Post? Was there something in it that was objectionable?

-- Posted by Jo on Mon, Aug 16, 2010, at 11:06 PM

News your economic theories may have worked in the university class room but doesn't work in real life. I am certainly glad I am not that educated to lose common sense and touch with reality. We are looking at a double dip recession by November even with all the spending now explain that Mr. Economist?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Aug 16, 2010, at 10:12 PM

Ok news or maybe I should say Mr. Economist why didn't the stimulus and the runaway spending by the Democrats improve the economy all indicators show it is worse. Wow! Unbelievable!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Aug 16, 2010, at 10:03 PM

rr3yv0

Cutting social spending in a deflationary period is the worst possible thing you could do.

Cutting social spending at this juncture would have a number of very negative economic effects including significantly further reducing consumption. That will translate into more layoffs. Unemployment will rise further reducing consumption. That will mean more layoffs and more unemployment.

Meanwhile, Perfect Competition will begin driving down prices of new housing starts and durable goods. However, unemployed folks don't purchase many new homes or durable goods.

Unemployed folks subsist on autonomous consumption which does the economy very little good. As prices decline at a time when most people have no extra cash at all and fear of job loss is prevalent, consumers tend to put off purchases in hopes of a smaller price tag tomorrow.

In no way would the tax multiplier have any noticeable effect under such conditions except to reduce badly needed tax revenues...at a time when we are trying to also finance 2 overseas wars as well as troops stationed in many nations across the World.

Cutting social spending at this time would be shear economic suicide...no matter which side of the bench one may happen to be on.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Aug 16, 2010, at 9:50 PM

I guess that independent voter will vote for the enemy once again!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Aug 16, 2010, at 8:42 PM

Do we really know who is affiliated with the mosque? I all could be on the up and up but I just hope we apply the same standards that we would for any other religion.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Aug 16, 2010, at 8:11 PM

News we don't need new plans we need to implement what works it's not rocket science because CAPITALISM IS BOSS!!! HEH!HEH!HEH!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Aug 16, 2010, at 8:05 PM

News your not listening news CUT SPENDING duh! It will not fail if the government would spend no more than the tax revenue brought in at any given time. It doesn't even take an economist to figure that one out. But every time anyone wants to cut anything the Democrats scream that they are racist, they are giving tax breaks to the rich, they are starving the old people, they are starving the kids, etc, etc, and news they are the very people doing it. Time to wake up news and smell the coffee that is if you have enough scientific evidence to make some. Don't forget CAPITALISM IS BOSS!!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Aug 16, 2010, at 8:02 PM

rr3yv0

Why don't you just admit it, the Republicans don't have any new plans.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Aug 16, 2010, at 6:38 PM

rr3yv0

I don't thing anyone affiliated with that Mosque has ever attacked us.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Aug 16, 2010, at 6:00 PM

rr3yv0

Well if they cut taxes and don't pay for the tax cuts then that means the Republicans plan to go back to their outrageous SPEND AND BORROW plan they practiced under Bush. So really all you Republicans are doing is offering us the same failed plan you used before? No thanks!

This independent voter will be voting Democrat.

Oh and rr3yv0, the tax multiplier is way to small to cause an economic depression to turn around. It has never worked before and it won't work now.

We need a new deal and all the republicans are offering us is the same old song and dance that crashed our economy the last time they were in charge.

This independent voter is voting straight Democrat ticket.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Aug 16, 2010, at 5:59 PM

I don't think the people affiliated with the strip bars killed 3000 people. I have no problem with their right to practice their religion or their right to build their mosque on private property near ground zero. I don't agree with and I also have that right so are you saying I should give up my right to disagree? I don't think so. I think if it was looked into where the money is coming from and who is behind we should be suspicious. Hey I could be wrong but I still disagree with their intent.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Aug 16, 2010, at 5:58 PM

There are two strip bars within the same proximity to Ground Zero as the proposed mosque, and many other establishments that seem to me to be more incongruous than a house of worship.

In my opinion the fascist right in America is scary, and ridiculous at the same time. Running around demanding that something should not be somewhere because they say so. Humph. They wave the Constitution in one hand, but stomp on it with both feet. At the same time they are so ignorant that they do not realize that they are aping the tactics of Hitler, and Mussolini.

They will next be demanding that all Muslims wear an arm band with a yellow crescent, and that all Hispanics get a tatoo of their green cards, or citizenship papers. How long will it be before they make another run at the Jewish people?

To me they are the most despicable group of people in America, and should be thumped on the head with a lead minature of the Statute of Liberty because that apparently is the only thing about a statute that they understand.

If you don't love Americans including those of different races, and religions then leave it!

I am through being nice to these dangerous yokels, and am going to blast, and ridicule them as they have the rest of us for years. It is time to push back. That is all they understand. The sooner Obama does that the quicker he will begin to get things done.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Aug 16, 2010, at 5:43 PM

"You know that if somebody came along and wanted to put a Walmart at Ground Zero, the unions and Bloomberg would go nuts. Or if you wanted to put a nativity scene down there? There would be a conniption fit. Obama would say, 'We can't impose our religious views on people this way!'" -Rush

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Aug 16, 2010, at 4:51 PM

Handouts Breaking the Government Bank

"What do you expect from the redistribution of wealth -- Obama economics. It ain't his money, and what's ours is now everyone's. You wanted change, and you are getting it. The Democrats have the greatest scam going -- a sucker is born every minute."

http://www.newsmax.com/JamesWalsh/barack...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Aug 16, 2010, at 11:51 AM

Media Takes Notice As Winning Streak Continues

http://www.freedomworks.org/blog/mduncan...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Aug 16, 2010, at 10:15 AM

If You Tax Them, They Won't Come

http://www.freedomworks.org/blog/mmckill...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Aug 16, 2010, at 10:13 AM

News you are wrong tax cuts always stimulate the economy. Runaway government spending has always caused deficits not tax cuts. How do you pay for tax cuts you don't thats why they are called CUTS. If we don't cut government spending it won't matter how much we are taxed it will never be enough. Capitalism will bring us back if we allow it because CAPITALISM IS BOSS!!!

But it is very hard to convince a tax and spend liberal of that isn't it? In fact you keep blaming the wrong people for this mess the ones responsible are in charge right now but that's our little secret. Shhh don't tell nobody.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Aug 16, 2010, at 10:10 AM

Read it if you dare.... long report, 37 pages, about potentially criminal actions of Obama since his election to POTUS and the misuse of funds to utilize a propaganda campaign with tax payer dollars using misleading and distorted information.

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Aug 16, 2010, at 7:52 AM

rr3yv0

Yeah I looked at the link of the Republican economic plan...

I have some questions.

1) how do you intend to pay for those tax cuts?

2) Can you cite any empirical evidence that shows that the tax multiplier can cause an economic depression to shift into recovery?

3) How do these tax cuts put people back to work?

4.) With consumer confidence in the economy at a low and unemployment in double digits, how will this tax cut cause consumption of durable goods and new housing starts to recover to the pre-depression levels?

This is basically the same plan the Republicans used under Bush. His economic polcies...this one specifically...lead to the Great Depression II that we are currently suffering under and now the Republicans want to do the same thing to us again????

rr3yv0

I asked what your party's NEW PLANS were. You gave me their OLD PLAN for the economy...the same one that caused our economy to collapse in 2008. Is that all they have to offer us? Are the same previous failed Republican polcies that almost destroyed our Nation the best the Republicans have to offer us?

Does this mean the Republicans don't have any NEW PLANS but instead REPUBLICANS ARE ONLY OFFERING US THE SAME OLD SONG AND DANCE THEY DID UNDER BUSH?

I agree with AA...doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the very definition of the word insanity.

We need fresh ideas. We need a New Deal, but all we get from the Repubulicans are the same failed ideas that caused the problems we have in the first place.

This independent voter will be voting Democrat this time around...

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Aug 16, 2010, at 4:46 AM

rr3 same with this one, same ole crap, tax cuts. As I said nothing new from the Recorporate Party, same old mess making solutions. http://republicanwhip.house.gov/Jobs/

Never mind, forget that I asked the question.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Aug 15, 2010, at 11:59 PM

This link rr3 from 2009 was vague, and offered nothing new, just a continuation of the same old Recorporate policies that put us in this mess to start with. http://online.wsj.com/article/NA_WSJ_PUB...

That is why I hesitate to read your links.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Aug 15, 2010, at 11:53 PM

Speaking of thoughts, it has ocurred to me that soon the A S. P. C. A. will be starting a campaign to end the practice of putting canaries in the coal mines of West Virginia, and Kentucky, because it is just too dangerous, and inhumane ;( My symbol for dark, or bitter humor.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Aug 15, 2010, at 11:21 PM

Nope, Xray, I don't disagree in general with you on your point, just a caveat. Every historian starts with a point of view, and hopefully supports his theme strictly with the facts.

Thus we get Frederick Jackson Turner, and his frontier hypothesis, thus we get Howard Zinn, and populist history, and so on.

I was speaking of other statements within the body of the commentary. For instance, it provoked the thought for me as to whether, or not it is true that no president can make drastic changes unless that president is riding the tide of a great social movement? That sort of stuff.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Aug 15, 2010, at 11:05 PM

THE RIGHT STUFF

GOP chief: Republican 'mojo' is back

Michael Steele says recent wins 'just a 1st step'

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.vie...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Aug 15, 2010, at 9:27 PM

Democrats 'plan to steal the vote'

If you thought health-care bill was scary, check out universal-registration scheme

http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=121878

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Aug 15, 2010, at 9:25 PM

The GOP's Alternative Budget

President Obama offers us the option of European big government.

http://online.wsj.com/article/NA_WSJ_PUB...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Aug 15, 2010, at 9:21 PM

How about the Dems voting to take away more and more money from the Food Stamps programs and giving it to UNIONS and to fund the Mrs Obama Child nutrition plan? I thought DEMS cared about the POOR people??????

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Aug 15, 2010, at 9:18 PM

Newsacross... socialized medicine has been proven over and over to be cost ineffective and to contain costs, just as one of my previous posts is showing is happening here in America, they will prevent people from getting the drugs and treatments that are REQUIRED to save their live... Sorry you are too blinded to see that this is what happens in REALITY as compared to your theoretical play ground of some specific economic theory

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Aug 15, 2010, at 9:17 PM

House GOP Economic Stimulus Plan

http://republicanwhip.house.gov/Jobs/

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Aug 15, 2010, at 9:15 PM

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/7110...

A Sherrif of a different AZ County showing us exactly how unsafe the border is in AZ and in the other SW states... if the border patrol is claiming that the border is too unsafe to protect and the border patrol is retreating from those areas, what exactly does that say about our national security?

Sorry but the party of Obama/amnesty for all progressives are proving they hold the FEDERAL LAWS in disdain and are refusing to secure the border and thus protect the LEGAL citizens of our nation and instead favor the ILLEGAL citizens over us, even those who are career criminals or in drug and human trafficking gangs.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Aug 15, 2010, at 9:15 PM

news... what exactly is the NEW ideals that the progressives are pushing>? Are they not all still pushing for complete government take over of all decision making by all common folk Americans that they consider too stupid to know what is best for them and spend spend spend spend spend?

Not sure why you oppose what you consider the party of No if they are saying no to government take over, spending TRILLIONS of dollars we dont have and no to creating a class of people who are slaves to the big government political elitists of BOTH parties

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Aug 15, 2010, at 9:12 PM

OKR: Dont be offended... I did not have time to read the whole article as I am at work and got interrupted by some pesty patient.. LOL I might re-read it later. BUT are you disagreeing with me regarding the purpose of a historian and how it should NOT be to push an agenda but to merely report historical facts?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Aug 15, 2010, at 9:10 PM

Hey news did you get in on that free book deal? I know you like anything free.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Aug 15, 2010, at 9:00 PM

News I guess you have run out of reasons to blame Bush and the Republicans thats alway been your song and dance. I have asked on numerous occasions to name anything the Democrats are doing to create jobs, cut the deficit, you know anything to help the country or the people. So far the question has not been answered. Like I said it probably doesn't make any difference to you what the Republicans present as a plan because your liberal friends have convinced you that it is all the fault of Bush and the Republicans. When the truth of the matter is the source of the the problem are the ones that are now in charge of "fixing it". Glad your proofreading.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Aug 15, 2010, at 8:58 PM

rr3yv0

I never saw the detailed new plans the conservatives have.

I think the real problem the Republicans have is...they can't produce new plans for the economy or ending the wars the Republicans started and didn't finish because the Republicans have nothing new.

I don't think your Party has any new plans at all.

All you have are the samea old plans that crashed our economy, spied on Americans with out a warrant in direct violation of our laws, started 2 wars -- one of them based on an outright lie (where are those Iraqi nukes again?) -- and never finished them, caused unemployment to reach double digits while causing a downward spiraling deflation the likes of which have not been seen since the last Great Depression.

I don't think the Republican party has anything to offer us but the same old song and dance they gave us the last time they were in power...

...otherwise I am sure you would have posted the new plans of the Republican Party rather than just claiming to have already posted the Republicans detailed, new plans.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Aug 15, 2010, at 7:39 PM

EXPOSED: Obama's plan to transform America into a secular-socialist state --

and how we can stop it now

https://members.humaneventsonline.com/or...

Hey news and okr here's a video you can watch and you can get a free book. I know you guys like free stuff.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Aug 15, 2010, at 6:58 PM

I wonder who Triple r is?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Aug 15, 2010, at 6:51 PM

okr and news I already posted the Republican plans and but I guess they went over your head sorry you missed them. Would it matter to you what their plans are? Would it matter if they had scientific evidence that their plans would work? What about actual proof? I can bet any of that wouldn't matter at all. The American people have been awakened through groups like the Tea Party and other grass roots organizations and the Democrats will suffer a tremendous loss at the polls come November. Will it matter time will tell and we will see what devastation a lame duck congress will reek on our nation. One truth that Obama said "we ain't seen nothing yet".

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Aug 15, 2010, at 6:50 PM

Ok rr3yv0

Let's see the Republican NEW PLANS. What are they offering us?

Let's see the SPECIFICS of how the Republicans' NEW PLAN -- the same folks who caused this depression -- will get the economy moving again.

We want to hear the NEW PLAN you conservatives have.

Whan will you conservatives end the wars you conservatives started but never ended?

Let's here your NEW PLAN.

What is the conservative plan to reduce unemployment? Let's hear your NEW PLAN specifics.

Because I think you don't have a new plan.

I think the only plan your party has is the same old plan that caused our economy to crash, created double digit unemployment, left us not 1 but 2 raging wars to deal with, made torture a standard American practice, spied on us with out a warrant in violation of our laws, and made our Nation the laughing stock of the World.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Aug 15, 2010, at 6:19 PM

Triple r, We have often seen your top ten wrong things that Obama has done, and your top three, and your top fifteen. We got it.

Now how about telling us the top ten things Republicans will do to turn things around. Oh, it would be nice if you cite where the ideas come from.

I will wait patiently while you look for them, but bear in mind that I am knocking on seventy's door. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Aug 15, 2010, at 3:50 PM

Xray I am sorry that the only thought that was provoked in you was the one you mentioned. I had hoped that it would give its readers more to mull. Sorry, I hope you get more from the next link that I post for thoughtful consideration.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Aug 15, 2010, at 3:39 PM

TOP 10 WAYS THE OBAMA BUDGET WASTES TAXPAYER MONEY

http://www.freedomworks.org/publications...

TOP 10 WAYS THE OBAMA BUDGET DISPLACES PRIVATE ENTREPRENEURSHIP

http://www.freedomworks.org/publications...

BUSINESS KNOWS MORE THAN OBAMA

http://www.freedomworks.org/blog/teda/bu...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Aug 15, 2010, at 8:44 AM

I guess now we can't argue any success that the current administration is having on our economy. Everything so far has been a dismal failure. What could they do different to kill jobs? What could they do different to increase our debt? What could they do different to prop up the unions that only represent 8% of the workforce? We have an economist that thinks socialized medicine, higher taxes and runaway government spending is the answer. I learned that didn't work when I went to school. I think our current path we are on is a train wreck economically but it is right out of the liberal play book. They have been working to destroy this country for 100 years and they may finally have success. Consevative principals is the answer and CAPITALISM IS BOSS!!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Aug 15, 2010, at 6:44 AM

The circle of knowledge keeps getting smaller and smaller.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Aug 15, 2010, at 6:19 AM

mrxray

What we need in medicine is socialized medicine, and one of these days we will finally get socialized medicine.

If we don't have enought supplies or hospitals or medicines...then we cut military spending and properly fund socialized medicine. Socialized medicine, fully funded and capable of serving the needs of every American citizen, at no direct cost to the patient, should be our priority.

But I see right now you conservatives are in an uproar over "Terrist Babies" lol lol lol lol...when will conservatives wake up and start addressing the needs of the American People. Where are your new plans -- 'cause the Republican's last plans, back when your boys were in charge (Bush) -- didn't work out real well. So what is the Republicans new plan? Let's hear it. Let's hear your NEW plan to make sure every American has full medical care with out bankrupting the patient? What is your NEW plan to boost the economy...other than the same old reduce taxes for the richest Americans song and dance...We the People, We the Voters, We the taxpayers want to hear the NEW plans...not the same old failed plans the Republicans almost destroyed our Nation with last time around.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Aug 15, 2010, at 5:22 AM

ORK: That article makes one valid point early on... "Progressive historian" might regard Obama as a success..... blah blah blah.

A TRUE historian should be able to separate their self from their bias and record and discuss history without the label of progressive or conservative or any other label.

IF You are proud of your idealogy... and you want to utilize that to write about your OPINION regarding historical situations then you are NOT a historian but an opinion writer discussing history.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Aug 15, 2010, at 5:21 AM

Food for thought: http://www.thenation.com/article/154018/...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Aug 15, 2010, at 1:13 AM

Slater: No one is arguing that Peer review is not useful, IF (A VERY BIG IF) the process is conducted honestly and without bias. That is hard for humans, and exopentially harder when Grant money and other economic factors influence the people conducting the experiement and/or the journals and/or the reviewers.

The whole point of the argument is that NEWSACROSS is using peer review as the end all be all of HIS side of the creationism v evolution argument and that is impossible given the amount of biases and outside influences that cause problems within the whole peer review process.

Because the whole peer review process is capable of becoming corrupted and this does occur often, then the whole 'logic' of the argument that News makes using peer review is flawed because it can be proven over and over that this process of peer review is inherently flawed and biased due to greed and human pride, just to name a few reasons

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Aug 14, 2010, at 9:25 PM

news...

1. Republican talking points? How is the denial of a life saving drug for cancer a talking point?

Are you saying you condone withholding a life saving drug for the sake of a socialist agenda so that only those deemed worthy by the government are saved?

2. Peer Review. As you can see with this process it IS full of misuse and worse. If the study is done with computer modeling or is conducted based on some pre-set data that the peer reviewers have to accept as fact in order to review the specific study (Because they dont have the time to review and re-collect the data that the specific study was based on) then the whole "garbage in, garbage out" is the only correct and valid outcome for a peer review process. This was seen a lot in the whole Man made global warming "science" that was initially conducted via the biased influence of WHO and the UN and the Al Gore Mania types.

If a creationist submits a paper, study or whathave you to be peer reviewed and the "peer" refuse to even look at it or make statements that "this is creationism therefore it is wrong" and they do not even objectively review the study then how can you ever have a peer review of anything that opposed the reviewers preconcieved biases? LOL

Again, Try Try Try Again.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Aug 14, 2010, at 9:21 PM

Sorry for all the typos in my previous comment folks. I will try to proof read more carefully before posting in the future.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Aug 14, 2010, at 6:49 PM

RR

Can I disprove God's existance? No...and I am not trying to disprove anything.

Science is not about disproving things. Science is about fact. Science seeks to prove not disprove. Science is a methodology by which we seperate what is truth and what is not truth and its done systematically. You have 4 possiblilities with any experiment -- Hypothosis, Null Hypothosis, False Positive, False Negative. That's it.

As to Australia, yes its here. I don't know if their is a hidden continent like Atlantis any place though, and until I see proof that their is a hidden continent like Atlantis, I would have to say that no evidence exists that their is a hidden continent of the nature of Atlantis. Likewise, since there is no testable, observable, rpeatable, varifiable evidence of the existance of a God or Gods, then I must say that no objective evidence of the xistance of a God or Gods.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Aug 14, 2010, at 5:51 PM

MrXray said this:

"My only point is that you CANNOT use articles and studies that claim 'peer review' as some sort of sound science since it is proven over and over that 'peer review' is full of bias, economic pressures to include or exclude specific points of views, fraud and many other problems."

ME: MrXray, I'm sure you'll agree that it isn't a case of ALL studies being flawed/biased. Some are, some aren't, and it would be a big mistake to accept the findings at face value, even if prior study results are replicated. Examining the methodology will uncover the biases.

Discounting ALL scienntific studies is as big a mistake as blithely accepting the results of all studies.

The bias enters the picture when the experimenter and/or reader has pre-conceived notions about what a study should reveal.

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Aug 14, 2010, at 1:03 PM

News can your belief that NO God exist be verified by scientific evidence? If a person has never seen scientific evidence of Australia does that mean it doesn't exist?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Aug 14, 2010, at 10:36 AM

Is there an echo in here!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Aug 14, 2010, at 10:18 AM

rr3yv0

Either an expericment can be repeated with the same results or not.

That is scientific peer review. If an experiment's results are not verifieed independently, they are disgarded. Its not hard to understand...either it is verifiable or its not.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Aug 14, 2010, at 9:23 AM

xray I don't think you can convince news that his "Peer Review" religion can be biased or wrong. Everything done by man is not perfect only God is perfect. I guess we could worship the God of skepticism, or the God of scientifically derived evidence or any other God of your choosing news. There is only one God that can fill that void in your life that you are trying to fill with scientific evidence.

I have been saved by grace not scientific evidence.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Aug 14, 2010, at 7:04 AM

Gee X-Ray are you sure those are todays Republican talking points?

"Death-Panels" lol lol lol lol lol lol lol...

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Aug 14, 2010, at 3:54 AM

http://www.gopusa.com/commentary/2010/08...

Just a good read

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Aug 14, 2010, at 3:06 AM

Government Run Health Care Death Panels...

http://biggovernment.com/capitolconfiden...

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Aug 14, 2010, at 2:37 AM

mrxray

I don't think you understand the term "peer review" in the scientific sense.

In science peer review means the repeating of another scientist's experiment in exacly the same way, using the exact same methods, under exactly the same conditions, and using the same quantitative methods and seeing if the results are duplicated. If the results cannot be duplicated under exactly the same conditions as the original experiment then it is discarded as either false positive, false negative, or null hypothesis. If the results can be duplicated in several independent repetitions then the original findings are regarded as confirmed by the scientific method. In scientific peer review either the results can be successfully repeated or they can't. The proof (and peer review) is in the testing. Either it is or it isn't repeatable.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Aug 14, 2010, at 2:20 AM

Encouraging news. The Republicans have their Tea Party. While the Democrats do not have a name for their insurgency against the party establishment it is out there, and showing considerable strength, as it bucks Obama and the Democorpocrat Party.

It is good news because it shows us that the American people are not entirely stupid, and that the voters of both parties are beginning to get the fact that whether Democorpocrat, or Recorpican, our representatives do not represent we human citizens.

Case in point: http://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/index....

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Aug 14, 2010, at 2:00 AM

I am not sure why you guys and gals are even arguing about creationism versus evolution anyway. Both demand a certain amount of faith, one on a surprise, out of no where big bang theory and the other on a designed creation conducted by a being you cannot see or touch.

AND neither side is going to convice the other side to change their minds.

My only point is that you CANNOT use articles and studies that claim 'peer review' as some sort of sound science since it is proven over and over that 'peer review' is full of bias, economic pressures to include or exclude specific points of views, fraud and many other problems.

Just because something makes a claim that it is peer reviewed, does not make the science correct or infallible. All we have to do is look to the numerous examples of faulty science that was supposedly peer reviewed in the whole global warming myth/science. There are 1000s or scienctist backing away from various studies and articles that they initially peer reviewed because the data supplied was misleading or incorrect or based on preconceived ideas and not on unbiased science... in other words it was pushing agenda and did not care about science.

So again peer review is worthless in many instances, even if News does not have the courage to admit these problems... lol

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Aug 14, 2010, at 12:37 AM

News I didn't specify what you take pride in except your intellectual ability you definitely qualify as prideful in that regard. You need to have your facts straight mate.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 13, 2010, at 10:36 PM

News is there any religion that relies on scientific evidence?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 13, 2010, at 10:32 PM

rr3yv0

How do you know what most skeptics take pride in?

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 13, 2010, at 9:59 PM

john henry's hammer

Yes based upon the fact that Christianity is derived from a small, obscure Middle Easter Religion that was one of thousands of religions of the time -- the rest of which we now call mythology, I do regard the Bible and Christianity and all religions to be mythology.

As a skeptic I can not ignore that it is possible some superior force or beings were behind Big Bang...but the probability of that is very small. So yes I am certainly open to any scientific evidence that would prove that Big Bang was the result of a superior being or beings. However, to date no such scientific evidence of the existance of any God or Gods exists, and I feel I can logically conclude that a God or Gods existing is an unlikely proposal. But hey I could be easily converted to any religion. All I require is scientific evidence that leads to no other logical conclusion that there is a God and scientific evidence that a particular religion's God is the only real God.

I remain skeptical

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 13, 2010, at 9:57 PM

"The BP oil leak is another example of why arrogance and incompetence is a dangerous combination. It's an outrage. Look at what's happened: an entire industry has been shut down on the basis of an unwarranted panic." -Rush

"Obama is doing to the US economy what Godzilla did to Tokyo -- stomping all over it." -Rush

Our Real Gulf Disaster

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/2...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 13, 2010, at 8:54 PM

Most skeptics take pride in their intellectual ability and like to think that they have no "beliefs."

"Just because cause and effect overwhelmingly operate in our universe, does this mean that supernatural events never occur?" one who insists that supernatural events never occur is expressing a belief that can never be fully confirmed. To be truly open-minded, one must recognize the possibility that supernatural events do occur.

The physical laws of the universe fall within very narrow ranges in order for life (or even matter) to exist, suggesting some level of design. The prospect of finding a naturalistic cause for the origin of the universe is bleak at best, since the laws of physics indicate that we will never be able escape the bounds of our universe to even attempt to look for the cause of the universe.

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 13, 2010, at 8:49 PM

One thing about it news you have tremendous faith for a skeptic.

CAPITALISM IS BOSS!!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 13, 2010, at 6:38 PM

News you say you went to catholic school hmmmmmm. If they didn't teach that salvation comes upon the acceptance of Jesus Christ then they fall into the category of a cult just like Islam, Jehovah Witness, Mormonism, etc. Now I can kind of understand your skepticism. Most Catholics don't know why they do or believe what they do they just know thats the way Catholics do it.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 13, 2010, at 6:34 PM

Yeah I kind of thought so Nan.

I am not athiest either. No good skeptic or rationalist completely rejects the possiblility that some superior being may have initiated Big Bang with the hopes that somehow life would develope. We skeptics simply say that until we see convincing, scientifically derrived evidence to support a claim, we cannot accept that claim as being valid.

Mankind has held one form of religious belief or another for thousands of years...yet thus far not even 1 piece of scientifically derrived evidence has been found to support the claim of the existance of a God or Gods...not even 1 in all these thousands of years.

I remain skeptical.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 13, 2010, at 6:17 PM

"Florida GOP candidate urges concentration camps for undocumented immigrants"

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0813/gop-can...

Do we really want people like this transforming our Government into a Fasciast/NAZI style Government?

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 13, 2010, at 6:11 PM

Is this the politics blog, or is this the evangelical blog?

I say a seperate blog for religion. Then we will have those two taboo subjects politics, and religion covered.

What do you think of the weather? Sure has been hot recently. :)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Aug 13, 2010, at 6:03 PM

john henry's hammer

It is not necessary for me to disprove anything. Disproving something is not evidence for the counter claim.

I am not interested in swapping interpretations of Biblical "prophesy."

Nor am I interested in attempting to prove a negative. That is circular logic and has no place in rational discussion.

Show me scientifically derrived evidence to support your claim God exists. Then show me the scientifically derrived evidence that proves that your God is that God.

Until then, I remain skeptical.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 13, 2010, at 6:00 PM

rr3yv0

There is no scientifically derrived evidence to support your claim...not one piece to suggest that any God or Gods exist. In addition, you have provided not one shread of testable, observable, repeatable, verifiable evidence that your God(s) is the only God(s) nor have you provided scientifically derrived evidence that your God is superior or more real than other Gods.

You can't even offer scientific, undisputable proof that your God exists...you have not even one piece of scientifically derrived evidence to support your claims...none...zero...zip

I remain skeptical.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 13, 2010, at 5:35 PM

john henry's hammer

Investigate? I went to Catholic School for 12 years mate...I think I know a thing or 2 about Christianity.

The fact is that to date nobody has come up with even 1 shread of scientifically derrived evidence to support the existance of a God...not even 1.

Unitl there is at least 1 piece of evidence to support the existance of a God, I don't believe it.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 13, 2010, at 5:29 PM

Romans 1 vs. 18 - 21 says:

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities - his eternal power and divine nature - have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.

The Proof that God exists is that without Him you couldn't prove anything.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 13, 2010, at 5:20 PM

News real scientific theories prove nothing thats why they call them theories.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 13, 2010, at 4:45 PM

john henry's hammer

Asking someone to disprove God's existance is asking them to prove a negative. That is not reasonable or logical.

I can't disprove the Easter Bunny's existance either...that does mean the Easter Bunny exist. I can't disprove Santa's existance either...but that does not mean Santa really exists. I can't prove a magician's magic trick is not really magic...but that does not mean it is really magic.

The burdon of proof always falls upon the person making the claim. In this case that would be you. You say God exists...not me. So show me just one piece of scientifically derrived evidence that He exists and we can move on.

Nature is not scientific evidence. It can already be easily ezplained by real scientific theories such as evolution which is supported by scientifically derrived evidence.

Perhaps you need to watch the Baloney Detector Kit video again.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 13, 2010, at 4:22 PM

john henry's hammer

The fact remains, there is not one shread of testable, repeatable, observable, verifiable evidence to support any religious belief. If you think you have scientific evidence that proves the existance of God, please submit it to a scientific journal for peer review. Until then, I remain skeptical.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 13, 2010, at 8:20 AM

News explain the difference between an atheist and a skeptic.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 13, 2010, at 7:23 AM

News faith without works is dead. A Christian only has to believe in and accept Jesus as personal Lord and Saviour to become a Christian. Works are something you want to do to demonstrate your faith in Jesus but does not guarantee your salvation. Salvation is given freely and is not dependent on works.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 13, 2010, at 7:15 AM

News you are wrong Christmas is about the birth of Jesus that's why they want to call it a winter holiday so they don't have to claim it is about the birth of Jesus. Allah is not the same God that I worship. Apostle Paul did know Jesus and every Christian today knows Jesus as a non-believer you don't. Sorry but you are not qualified to know that. I believe in Jesus by faith and I have all the proof I need. Just like you have faith in evolution, the big bang, etc do you really have all the proof you need?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 13, 2010, at 7:11 AM

john henry's hammer

Yeah I know his apostles made their living creating a new religion...beyond that we can only speculate. In fact, really it was Saul (Paul) who almost single-handedly created the Christian religion.

He was an interesting man. He began as an official who's job was hunting down Christians and persecuting them. At some point he figured out he could make a lot more money as an apostle...and boy was he right! His problem was he never met or knew Jesus. So he concocted a wild story of being struck blind and given orders to basically take on the job of creating the Christian Church.

He and Peter had some very serious differences as well. Peter believed that in order to be a Christian one must first convert to Judiasm. Paul said that was all wrong and that anyone can become a Christian by following the beliefs and tenets of the faith.

Oh also, you said in an earlier comment that Christians believe faith in God alone will get a person to heaven and that acts are not important. That is incorrect. Only a minority of Christians hold that belief.

The view that faith -- not acts -- is the only thing that matters relative to getting into heaven was an idea of John Calvin.

He established Calvinism...a very odd view of Christian behviors and rules. For example, Calvin taught that if a natural disaster strikes your neighbors house then you should turn your back on that neighbor and do nothing to assist them. He taught that God was showing his disatisfaction with the neighbor and that man has no place interferring with that expression of God's disfavor. He also came up with the concept of "Grace," the idea that one's sins -- even future sins -- are cleansed by an acceptance of Jesus of Naz and that a Christian will go to heaven no matter what sins he may commit as long as he believes in Jesus of Naz.

The Catholics don't buy any of that nonsense. They do not believe in the concept of Grace, believe you must confess your sins after the sin is committed for each and every sin (including the Sacrament of "Last Rights")in order to be forgiven, and they believe that acts are equally important to faith...and World-wide they by far way, way, way outnumber the Christians who follow the tenets of Calvinism (evangelical Christians).

As to the Muslims they believe that faith alone can get one into heaven but indeed charity is one of the 5 pillars of Islam and the Muslims are a very generous people...as are many Christians.

Mate, let's get something straight. I am not an athiest. I am a skeptic. I don't know if there is a God, Gods, Godess, Godesses, demons, ghosts, goolies, the Easter Bunny, or Santa. I only know that there is not one shread of testable, observable, repeatable, verifiable evidence to support any religion and until there is overwhelming scientific evidence to the contrary, I have no choice but to say that I have no good reason to believe in magic or magical Gods in the 21st Century. I remain...skeptical.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 13, 2010, at 6:50 AM

JHH

Your claims don't past the baloney detector test.

You can learn more about the baloney deterctor kit here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUB4j0n2U...

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 13, 2010, at 1:26 AM

JJh

1.) "Josephus was born during the first year of the reign of Roman emperor Gaius, so either in 37 or 38 CE, and died around 100 CE."

http://atheism.about.com/od/biblepeoplen...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus

He was born on or about the time of Jesus Death.

So he never saw Jesus, he never spoke with Jesus, he didn't see Jesus die, he never heard Jesus's voice and he does not mention Jesus of Nazareth anywhere in the works yous cited. So even if he did mention Jesus of Naz in his work, the information would have been nothing but hear-say -- some claim someone else had heard and told him about. But of course he never mentions Jesus at all.

2.) No where in the paragraph you cite in your comment is the name Jeus of Nazerath mentioned. Instead it gives a brief summary of the execution by stoning and hanging of some un-mentioned person. Well they did a lot of that back then mate. Were they all Jesus? And gee...I thought he was crucified not hung. But then again hundreds of thousands of people were "hung on a cross" during the Roman Empire. Frankly mate, I think you are reading into that something that is not there. I don't see Jesus name mentioned anywhere in any of his works.

But ya know mate, I don't doubt that a traveling, homosexual Jewish Rabbi by the name of Jesus lived and preached then. Of course that does not mean he was God nor would Jesus existance be proof of anything except that a man named Jesus existed. I have no doubt many men by that name lived in the Mid-East back then.

Of course since you don't provide any links to the quotes you provide, we the readers have no way of knowing if you are accurate nor do we know who provided you with information. Where are your links mate? I would love to check and see if you are correct. Show me the links mate.

Further, even if Josephus had mentioned Jesus, that in and of itself would not be enough to confirm which Jesus he was referring to nor would it be evidence of the existance of a God, nor would it be evidence that Jesus was a God and not a man. All you really have mate is pure speculation. Do you really think basing your entire life on nothing more than speculation is the right way to go?

I am a skeptic. Yes you have to prove your claims to me before I will accept them as fact.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 13, 2010, at 1:15 AM

john henry's hammer

You are the one who made the extraordinary claim that Jesus was an actual historical figure and that even athiest historians agree that Jesus did actually lived and existed as written in that collection of mytholigical books we call the Bible.

So it is now up to you to defend your thesis with qualified sources and scientific evidence. You don't even bother to provide us with a source for the information you allegedly claim exists.

You say,

"Josephius writes about the followers of Jesus, roman history has mention of it, there is no denying as a historical figure he existed."

Where did Josephius write about Jesus? Where is the link to your qualified source of that information so we the readers can verify your claim is accurate and based on physical evidence? By the way, the Romans were extremely serious about documentation. We have a lot of documents from that era and yet there is not one mention of Pilot putting Jesus to death...not one...despite their tendency to tediously record every detail of every public act of Governement.

you say,

"I've repeatedly asked you about Dawkins and his inability to sensibly discuss evolution and creation. News, I've asked about debates where even the college students note is inability to list scientific principle to support evolution."

Who says that about Dawkins? You? Some un-named and mysterious college students? That is nothing more than your empty opinion unless you can provide a qualified source of those claims with evidence that Dawkins does not cite physical evidence.

you say,

"I have asked about the frauds concerning Java Man, Orce man, misrepsentation of Neanderthals, haeckels ebbryo sequence, Brontosauras, and what National Geographic had to recant concerning Archaeoraptor..........."

Where is your source citing and link for that information? I would really love to have a look at it...but I don't think you have a qualified source for that. Maybe you heard if from some other non-expert who heard it from some other Joe? Maybe your preacher told you that. Where are you qualifed citations that prove your claims? When did you establish that your claims are accurate? Let's see the National Geographic article you claim you are refering to. Tell me the names of these folks who make these claims so I can check their background to see if indeed they are legitimate scientists and if indeed their claims have passed peer review in credible scientific journals?

If you are trying to say there have been some frauds who tried to pass off phoney scientific evidence as real...yes that is true. One of the things scientific methodolgy does very well is to root out those frauds. But that does not mean we then ignore the enormous amount of physical evidence that is real and fully verified.

You make a lot of empty claims mate, and it all means nothing without qualified citations and physical evidence.

You own the claim mate...now defend it. Let's see your proof.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Aug 12, 2010, at 11:11 PM

correction:

Make that "better than I can"

Yes I am the typo king!

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Aug 12, 2010, at 9:08 PM

JHH...

Perhaps Dr, Hawkins can answer the question of "What if you are wrong?" than I can.

"Richard Dawkins - "What if you're wrong?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mmskXXet...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Aug 12, 2010, at 9:06 PM

john henry's hammer

1.) Please show me your historical evidence that Jesus existed. Please make sure your sources are fully qualified and based in factual, scientific evidence and historic documentation -- not on that collection of books of mythology you call the Bible.

2,) There is as much observable, repeatable, verifiable evidence to support your religious beliefs as there is to support the existance of the Great Speggettin monster, Thor and his hammer, Zeus, the Great Juju under the sea, and all other muythology...none...zip...zero.

As to my life, I live quite well mate. Trust me...you would love the life I live lol. I live in one of the finest, richest, most beautiful, temperate nations on Earth. I don't have to live under draconian American laws, I live in a democracy, we have socialized medicine, my house is paid for, and my wife and I both have defined pensions that will last us the rest of our lives with no problem. I have a wonderful life mate, and I am not afraid of dying when my life is finished. I don't need mythology to convince myself that somehow, magically, I won't die someday.

In addition, please cite the passage in my comment that you claim is a personal attack. I bet you can't.

Finally, when you die your memory and conciousness die also so you and I will never experience death on a concious level when we are dead. You live till you die. There is no in between. So a person's last memory will be of living -- not dying. There is no memmory when one is dead.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Aug 12, 2010, at 8:19 PM

oops

must have offended someones sensibilities.

sorry

zeke

-- Posted by zeke on Thu, Aug 12, 2010, at 1:40 PM

JHH...

...exactly how does one "attack" a mythological creature?

Anyway, I am pleased to wish anyone a happy holiday mate...Christians, Jews, Moslems, Wiccans, anyone. That does not mean I believe their mythological stories are real and true.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Aug 12, 2010, at 9:55 AM

Oh...and rr3yv0...

"Allah" is Arabic for "God." Their God is the God of Abraham...same God you claim to worship -- well at least one of the Gods you say you worship. You know, the one the Christians call "God the Father"...the one that ordered Abraham to sacrifice his Son then stopped that crasy Abraham at the last moment...that God...yeah...same God the Christians worship. However to be fair, the Muslims do only believe in one God...not three Gods. Having 3 Gods is a atrictly Christian thing.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Aug 12, 2010, at 7:23 AM

rr3yv0

I thought ours was a government of the people, for the people, and by the people.

As to your mythological approach to economics,...it is not necesaary to have a class system at all. We socialists strive for a 1 class society...no rich, no poor. In a socialist economy the benefits of society are equally shared by all the members of that society -- instead of directing the bulk of that wealth into the hands of just 1% of the population...as you do in a capitalist economy.

As to Christmas...yes mate, I always wish everyone a very merry Christmas during the holidays. In fact, I am one of those folks who goes all out for Christmas. Its my favorite time of year! Of course it might be more correct to call it "Saturnalia" since that was the original name of the Roman Holiday which the Romans later re-named "Christmas." But what ever you call it...I like it!

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Aug 12, 2010, at 5:57 AM

News come December will you also wish the Christians Merry Christmas? Since you don't beleive in Allah or God wouldn't that be hypocritical? I'm still confused coming from someone that speaks with such clarity.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 12, 2010, at 5:24 AM

News the bible tells us the poor will always be with us and we are to help them not the government.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 12, 2010, at 5:11 AM

Oops...

...make that think progress...lol

both good sites.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Aug 12, 2010, at 4:25 AM

OKR

I tried not to read the story at common dreams but by the time I realized I shouldn't read it, I had already read it. Now I know.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Aug 12, 2010, at 3:34 AM

OKR

LOL! Yeah...my opinions are certainly popular lol.

Do you think anyone reads past the first 2 sentences of my comments before they respond? lol...

By the way, my favorite comment in all the years I have been posting here, was JHH's political manifesto. Now that was really something!

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Aug 12, 2010, at 3:27 AM

Shhh. Don't ask, don't tell, and maybe no one should even read the story at this link. http://thinkprogress.org/2010/08/10/mill...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Aug 12, 2010, at 2:35 AM

News sometimes you write with such clarity that it boggles my mind when some don't get it.

What you last said is fact, every word of it, yet someone will probably contest your comment.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Aug 12, 2010, at 2:03 AM

For those of you in the Marshall area who are of the Muslim faith, I wish you all a most happy Ramadan!!

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Aug 12, 2010, at 1:57 AM

john henry's hammer

I think you are confused.

Capitalism is not democracy...not even close.

Capitalism is an economic system...not a political system.

Democracy on the other hand is a political system.

Democracy does not require capitalism in order to work. Democracy can work with any economic system.

However democracy does not guarantee capitalism will work, and thus far capitalism has failed to eliminate the poverty of millions of Americans in the USA. As an economist, I call that a failed economic system.

Oh and please stop blaming the poor for their own poverty. No one wants to be poor. Stop the war on the poor please. Those good folks are working our hardest jobs for the lowest pay.

Capitalism is certainly not democratic. Democracies operate on a one man, one vote system.

Capitalism does not. Capitalism uses dollar vote...the more dollars you have, the more votes you have in determining the 3 major societal functions we economist look at -- specifically Allocation, Technology, and Equity.

1 man, 1 vote is democratic.

dollar vote (capitalism) is anti-democratic.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Aug 12, 2010, at 1:09 AM

Same old rant.

Same old cant.

Another slant?

At least it is good to see this blog going to the dogs.;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Aug 11, 2010, at 11:31 PM

JHH,

Yo recently asked if I had any comments regarding your political manifesto you posted in this forum recently.

I appologize for the delay in answering you.

I have contemplated my thoughts on this since you posted it. I must admist that I was speechless when I read it...unless laughter counts as speech. Anyway mate, It has been difficult for me to find the right words to express my thoughts on your political manifesto. However, this morning it hit me...

It seems like everyday I wake to the news of the U.S. has risen to a new level of fascism. Frankly, the America I see now days is not the America I once lived in. Its not the America I grew up in.The USA is a vastly different place now. Its a mean, racist Nation with a propensity for empire building at all costs. Its become a place where democracy and the rule of law seem to have taken a back seat to torture, racist hostility, and blind nationalism.

So in answer to your inquiry of my thoughts on your political manifesto...well mate, everyday I wake up and I think...

...thank goodness I live in Australia and not the U.S.A.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Aug 11, 2010, at 7:40 PM

To heck with the argument of whether capitalism or socialism is king. How 'bout we stick to the real world of right now.

What does any GOP politician propose right now that will bolster our extremely damaged and "going down in flames" economy? The right, through several years of pandering to the top 1% along with two unfunded elective wars, has created this mess. How will they fix it if given control of congress?

And for the so called progressives, what is it that Sara Palin and the rest of the tea partiers have for ideas to restore the american dream? God, Guns, and Gays will not do one single thing for our future. Tell me how we can create jobs, decent paying middle class jobs with any of thier positions on these issues?

And if anyone says "supply side economics", Reaganomics, or "trickle down economics" then I will be the first to call you a liar. The failed conservative policies of the past 30 years are what got us here. Period.

The only jobs I see being created by conservatives are jobs for people making up ridiculous tv ads blasting those "tax and spend democrats." To me it shows me just how out of touch conservative groups have become. If you think Skelton ruined the Missouri economy then I would like to hear how. And just what is the "Pelosi Agenda"? I certainly haven't heard Pelosi herself announce an agenda. Oh the glittering generalities, a favorite of the right.

Perhaps a bigger wedge driven right down the heart of our country will make it better, eh fellas? Let's see if we can't move further from compromise and reason and just base every decision on whether it wins votes from the conservative base or not. Surely that will bring us the bright future we all can now only dream of.

-- Posted by Smart Dog on Wed, Aug 11, 2010, at 4:38 PM

Conservatives and liberals are kindred spirits as far as government spending is concerned. First, let's make sure we understand what government spending is. Since government has no resources of its own, and since there's no Tooth Fairy handing Congress the funds for the programs it enacts, we are forced to recognize that government spending is no less than the confiscation of one person's property to give it to another to whom it does not belong -- in effect, legalized theft.

-- Walter Williams

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Aug 11, 2010, at 7:55 AM

JOBS BILL TO STOP TEACHER LAYOFFS CLEARS MAJOR HURDLE

This legislation creates debt and directs money to public employees who in turn give gigantic amounts of money to elect Democrats.

A professional politician is a professionally dishonorable man. In order to get any where near high office has to make so many compromises and submit to so many humiliations that he becomes indistinguishable from a streetwalker.

http://www.freedomworks.org/blog/teda/jo...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Aug 11, 2010, at 7:53 AM

Here's a couple more sob stories to add to your collection Nanadot. The Democrats drove New Jersey to the poor house not capitalism.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/jacketco...

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/arti...

CAPITALISM IS BOSS!!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Aug 11, 2010, at 7:43 AM

"Ohio Democrats are attacking an organization doling out $15 million to the children of fallen or wounded soldiers just to score cheap political points."

http://www.redstate.com/erick/2010/08/10...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Aug 11, 2010, at 7:30 AM

OKR...If you haven't read David Stockman's book, "Triumph of Politics" then I highly recomend it. In it he tells all about how then President-elect Ronald Reagan ordered him to take steps to create a major recession (10+% unemployment in 1982) in order to break the backs of unions.

Its the classic story of a politician selling out the People in favor of his political ideals...conservative.

I read his book while in college and I was shocked when I realized what Reagan's true agenda was. It also explained how we went from stagflation to depression in just 2 short years.

Again, Stockman's book, "Triumph of Politics," is an excellent read.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Aug 10, 2010, at 11:47 PM

Awesome piece ND.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Aug 10, 2010, at 10:35 PM

SmartDog thanks for posting the Stockman piece. I read his op-ed in the Times, and had intended to post a link to it, but some how forgot to do it. I'm glad you did not.

So, fellow posters of the conservative bent, do you favor extending the Bush era tax cuts for the rich? Are you in lock step with the Republican establishment in Washington? The Republican establishment has dug in their heels, and is fighting tooth, and nail to preserve them. How about you guys?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Aug 10, 2010, at 10:28 PM

SmartDog, I just wish the swelled heads in Washington would open their minds and consider his points and perspective.

Washington is like a collective Admiral Farragut - **** the torpedoes, full steam ahead!

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Aug 10, 2010, at 5:37 PM

I found these articles both enlightening and informative, essentially the first is a summary, the second the original piece.

I also have learned that there is one logic driven Republican left on the planet, David Stockman. I never would have expected that.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/reagan-...

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/01/opinio...

Anybody know of any way to get Stockman to run for office?

-- Posted by Smart Dog on Tue, Aug 10, 2010, at 3:15 PM

84 Days to Decide: Democrats Roll Dice With Education Aid Vote

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/08/...

Sounds like we are paying for their campaign don't you think? No need to let a good crisis go to waste.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 10, 2010, at 6:04 AM

Putting the tax in tax-and-spend liberalism

tax cheat Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner championed the expiration of the Bush tax cuts and pooh-poohed the economic impact of tax hikes on the highest earners in the country. It's "responsible" to punish the wealthy, he argued.

http://michellemalkin.com/2010/07/25/put...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Aug 9, 2010, at 11:37 PM

I could also go to a Government Motors dealer and get a new car. I mean it shouldn't cost anything since we have about 60 billion invested in the company. GM at the most would be worth 52-54 billion boy I'm really counting on getting our money back.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Aug 9, 2010, at 11:26 PM

You know you're right John I think I will go to the bank tomorrow you know while I'm still fit.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Aug 9, 2010, at 11:20 PM

You know news you're right every time I'm short on money I just spend more that brings everything back in line. Yep thats it works every time. Man I should have been an economist.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Aug 9, 2010, at 10:52 PM

rr3yv0

Cutting government social programs -- and that is what most neocons and conservatives mean when they discuss cutting federal spending -- in the midst of a great depression would be one of the worst possible things our Government could do.

All capitalist economies require growing consumption in order to remain solvent. Consumption has decreased dramatically since the begining of this depression in Dec 2007. Reductions in government infrastructure and social programs will ultimately mean even further constrictions on demand and will result in a further reduction of consumption...in the midst of a deflating economy. Frankly mate...if the government begins to cut back already severly reduced social programs and other public spending, be afraid....be very afraid.

This is the very worst time to even consider such cuts in Federal Spending policy.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Aug 9, 2010, at 10:40 PM

Like I said news capitalism is working just fine. Its the government screwing it up. Higher taxes and wreckless spending is going to further collapse the economy. Obama wants to transform America and the best way to do it is collapse our economy so he can come to the rescue. Is that what you really want news?

CAPITALISM IS BOSS!!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Aug 9, 2010, at 9:35 PM

"Fed expected to downgrade US growth outlook"

http://rawstory.com/news/afp/Fed_expecte...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38629548/ns/...

http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2010/...

So...how's that capitalism working out for ya?

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Aug 9, 2010, at 9:22 PM

"We live in a country that values individual enterprise, personal responsibility and individual freedom. The more the government takes out of your pocket the less we have of all three of those things." -Karl Rove

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Aug 9, 2010, at 6:31 PM

Oklahoma: You came through for us again ,my friend! Everyone should read this! All this talk about changes to Social Security, one should know these Facts! I don't know were i heard this about the Government owing the fund,but i believe it was an Economist of some sort! ha. Full Faith in the Government is probably the kicker they were referring! Thanks again!

-- Posted by Jo on Mon, Aug 9, 2010, at 3:34 AM

Jhh no problem we all have a brain **** now, and then. Hilary, nor Barak were my primary candidate. I had seen enough about the pending war to decide it was misguided at best, and I knew that all the Senators, and Representatives had at least as much info as did I. Therefore I would not have voted for any candidate that was stupid enough, misguided enough, or disingenuos enough to have voted for it.

I truly believe that history will determine in hindsight that it was one of the greatest blunders in our nation's history. Most of our nation could not hear rational voices because of the deafening beat of the drums of war.

How did we get to the point that we love a good war so much, and are so exhilarated by the prospect, that we say screw the particulars, let's go?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Aug 8, 2010, at 11:28 PM

Here are some of the things wrong with the Democrats, and the Republicans. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/08/opinio...

Note to rr3: It was Republican leader John Boehner who said it would be a great idea to declare a moratorium on all new federal regulation.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Aug 8, 2010, at 11:04 PM

rr3 not just that the site you pointed me to presented few viable solutions to our critical needs is the problem. The problem is that the Republican leadership denies supporting even those weak half measures with comments like we should declare a moratorium on all federal regulation. Now that will really cause Goldman Sachs, and CitiBank to toe the line. Not!

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Aug 8, 2010, at 10:44 PM

Sources for the info regarding Social Security myths.

Sources:

1."To Deficit Hawks: We the People Know Best on Social Security," New Deal 2.0, June 14, 2010

http://www.moveon.org/r?r=89703&id=22141...

2. "The Straight Facts on Social Security," Economic Opportunity Institute, September 2009

http://www.moveon.org/r?r=89704&id=22141...

3. "Social Security and the Age of Retirement," Center for Economic and Policy Research, June 2010

http://www.moveon.org/r?r=89705&id=22141...

4. "More on raising the retirement age," Washington Post, July 8, 2010

http://www.moveon.org/r?r=89706&id=22141...

5. "Social Security is sustainable," Economic and Policy Institute, May 27, 2010

http://www.moveon.org/r?r=89707&id=22141...

6. "Maximum wage contribution and the amount for a credit in 2010," Social Security Administration, April 23, 2010

http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/app/answers/...

7. "Trust Fund FAQs," Social Security Administration, February 18, 2010

http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/ProgData/fundFAQ...

8."To Deficit Hawks: We the People Know Best on Social Security," New Deal 2.0, June 14, 2010

http://www.moveon.org/r?r=89703&id=22141...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Aug 8, 2010, at 10:35 PM

Jo you might want to read this, provided by Move On.org. Others may find it interesting.

Top 5 Social Security MythsRumors of Social Security's demise are greatly exaggerated. But some powerful people keep spreading lies about the program to scare people into accepting benefit cuts.

Myth: Social Security is going broke.

Reality: There is no Social Security crisis. By 2023, Social Security will have a $4.3 trillion surplus (yes, trillion with a 'T'). It can pay out all scheduled benefits for the next quarter-century with no changes whatsoever.1 After 2037, it'll still be able to pay out 75% of scheduled benefits--and again, that's without any changes. The program started preparing for the Baby Boomers retirement decades ago.2 Anyone who insists Social Security is broke probably wants to break it themselves.

Myth: We have to raise the retirement age because people are living longer.

Reality: This is a red-herring to trick you into agreeing to benefit cuts. Retirees are living about the same amount of time as they were in the 1930s. The reason average life expectancy is higher is mostly because many fewer people die as children than did 70 years ago.3 What's more, what gains there have been are distributed very unevenly--since 1972, life expectancy increased by 6.5 years for workers in the top half of the income brackets, but by less than 2 years for those in the bottom half.4 But those intent on cutting Social Security love this argument because raising the retirement age is the same as an across-the-board benefit cut.

Myth: Benefit cuts are the only way to fix Social Security.

Reality: Social Security doesn't need to be fixed. But if we want to strengthen it, here's a better way: Make the rich pay their fair share. If the very rich paid taxes on all of their income, Social Security would be sustainable for decades to come.5 Right now, high earners only pay Social Security taxes on the first $106,000 of their income.6 But conservatives insist benefit cuts are the only way because they want to protect the super-rich from paying their fair share.

Myth: The Social Security Trust Fund has been raided and is full of IOUs

Reality: Not even close to true. The Social Security Trust Fund isn't full of IOUs, it's full of U.S. Treasury Bonds. And those bonds are backed by the full faith and credit of the United States.7 The reason Social Security holds only treasury bonds is the same reason many Americans do: The federal government has never missed a single interest payment on its debts. President Bush wanted to put Social Security funds in the stock market--which would have been disastrous--but luckily, he failed. So the trillions of dollars in the Social Security Trust Fund, which are separate from the regular budget, are as safe as can be.

Myth: Social Security adds to the deficit

Reality: It's not just wrong -- it's impossible! By law, Social Security funds are separate from the budget, and it must pay its own way. That means that Social Security can't add one penny to the deficit.1

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Aug 8, 2010, at 10:28 PM

Jhh I agree with much you said, especially your points 3, 4, 5, 11, 12, and 20.

Still no one has jumped in to say why we should return Republicans to office, and control, nor answered my query as to what agenda they propose.

I am wondering whether, or not most think both major parties stink, and not many are jumping up and down to tout the glories of either. Well that is a start.

I for one, am going to look long, and hard at minor party candidates before I vote. Maybe if enough do that some part of the establishment may wake up, and realize that they are losing their constituentcy.

Oh, one point that if my memory serves me that you got wrong is that in fact Obama did not vote for the war. I recall that he was not in the Senate then, and in fact made a statement prior to the Senate's vote that if he was in the Senate he would vote against it. I could be wrong about that, but I don't think so. You might want to check it because I know that if you knew that it was wrong you would not have said it.

I guess the real question is having been abandoned by both the Democratic, and Republican machines where can we the people go?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Aug 8, 2010, at 10:16 PM

Jo I found this site talking about the SS trust fund. They throw a lot of numbers around and it may not be what your looking for.

http://newsburglar.com/2009/04/07/social...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Aug 8, 2010, at 10:10 PM

okr here are some GOP solutions.

http://www.gop.gov/solutions

I guess the Democrats can run on the success of the last 2 years we'll see how that works for them. Oh its still Bush's fault I keep forgetting that.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Aug 8, 2010, at 10:08 PM

How would you find out how much is owed to Social Security? Maybe one of you can help! Thanks! I can't find anything.

-- Posted by Jo on Sun, Aug 8, 2010, at 9:38 PM

News, do these words have a familiar ring?

"The evolution of recent human history has been dominated by minority control over the majority, the rulers have come up with nessesary illusion for compliance and servitude of the many, Science and technology has created a world of plenty, but the market mechanism is about artificial scarcity to perpetuate poverty and exploitation in a modality of war,enviornmental destructions,animal cruelty and so on . The new paradigm is sharing the Earth for our collective needs and wellbeing."

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Aug 8, 2010, at 9:33 PM

The philosophy of liberty:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z1buym2x...

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Aug 8, 2010, at 9:24 PM

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100808/ap_o...

Wonder why the press and the leftists did not claim that Prince William County's anti illegal immigrant policy that required their officers to check citizenship status starting back in 2007 was racist and why they did not make a big hooplah over this community?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Aug 8, 2010, at 8:56 PM

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100806/ap_o...

Anyone STILL wondering why Unions and Education do not go hand in hand? LOL I guess it is good for the dirty old man perverts that teach....

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Aug 8, 2010, at 8:52 PM

try again News.... Peer review might be some sort of standard practice, BUT it is not without MAJOR problems, Bias and FRAUD and outright misleading information.

You cannot claim peer review is somehow methodological when it is so wrought with major problems such as these.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Aug 8, 2010, at 8:40 PM

"71% Think Prop 8 is Unconstitutional -- Source: Fox News"

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/08/0...

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/08/0...

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Aug 8, 2010, at 7:50 PM

"GOP heresy? Boehner won't say tax cuts pay for themselves"

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0808/boehner...

Includes video of the interview.

Yeah...the Republicans have no new plans, no new ideas. All they offer us is a lot of generalized mumbo jumbo...where are the specifics? Where is the beef?

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Aug 8, 2010, at 7:38 PM

Greed, unchained is running amok in our country. with our approval Greed is walking arm in arm with Hope, and Aspiration. We murmur, "Well, Greed is with a good crowd," What sort of fools have we become?

We curse the members of "our" Congress, and march out to vote for change, only to find that our new hero feeds at a similar trough as the Congress member we replaced.

Are we even greater fools by believing that we can change the result without changing the system that our Representatives have to live with every day they are in office?

We will not get what we want until we the taxpayers are paying the cost of campaigns, and elections. It is the only way that Congress will ever again answer to us instead of corporations, trade unions, and other powerful special interests.

We will not get what we need until we properly regulate 'Wall Street" which has become a roiling den of unregulated gambling, stealing, and double dealing. Even should this doubtful recovery become a success how long would it be before those who walk on our backs unregulated throw us into another financial crisis?

Will we remain the fools we have become until most of us are sitting on our haunchs in the dirt?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Aug 8, 2010, at 7:20 PM

Back to politics. rr3, XR, Jhh, or any one else out there. Enough of the ceaseless pummeling of Obama, and Democrats.

Please tell us just what it is that the Republican's are offering instead. That is, beyond cutting social security, cutting medicare, cutting federal regulation of oil companies, cutting federal regulation of Wall street, and leaving the Bush tax cuts for the rich in place when even their own economic sages (Greenspan, and Stockman) say we can not afford that.

Is that why everyone should vote for Republicans?

Lots of luck on selling that, even to the dumbed down American voters.

So, once again what else do they offer, or should I say what do they have up their sleeve?

At this time the leaders of the Republican party are telling their minions to not present anything, just blast the Democrats, and promise unspecified change from their course. You like that? Is that enough to get your heart pumpin? What is it about you people on the right that will wave the flag of a party that you can't even begin to say what they will do? That is stupid. Prove me wrong by stating their plan. Please, no one else has.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Aug 8, 2010, at 6:14 PM

News the species was no different they were still stickleback fish and have been from the time God created them. The 5% that adapted and survived the lower temperatures simply adapted something species were designed to do. You have nothing here news and by no means any mountain of evidence. Show a species changing from one to another and actual evidence then you would have something. You have none!!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Aug 8, 2010, at 8:25 AM

News the 1st Amendment says nothing about separation of church and state that is the tired old liberal interpretation.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Aug 8, 2010, at 8:17 AM

No john henry's hammer

She isn't selling anything nor was she paid for speaking to this group of rationalists. She merely presents the history and facts surrounding the creationist attempt to circumvent our 1st Ammendment Seperation of Church and State as well as discussing in depth how the creationist concept of "irreducible Complexity" was completely debunked by science in the court room.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Aug 8, 2010, at 7:47 AM

"Creationism: Still Crazy After All These Years' - Eugenie Scott, AAI 2009"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pItVGYa86...

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Aug 8, 2010, at 4:27 AM

Opps! another typo...

I meant to say "methodological" not "methodlogical."

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Aug 8, 2010, at 4:21 AM

mrxray

Peer review is the method by which we independently re-test the hypothisis in exactly the same way as the original testing. The results must be equivalent to the original results, otherwise it is unverifiable and discounted as inconsistant and unreliable. Peer review is a methodlogical and reasoned approach mandated by scientific principles.

The fact that not one creasionist put up a single piece of evidence, that they claim they have, to peer review is very telling, and the creationists are failinig to utilize a very important step in the verificatioin process. It leaves the rational mind to ask why do they not submit their testing and findings to peer review? Could it perhaps be because they have no testable, repeatable, verifible evidence to support their hypothesis?

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Aug 8, 2010, at 2:46 AM

Peer Review:

Problems with Peer review in general and with creationism: http://www.dakotavoice.com/2008/02/creat...

From another source:

Richard Horton, editor of the British medical journal The Lancet, has said that

The mistake, of course, is to have thought that peer review was any more than a crude means of discovering the acceptability -- not the validity -- of a new finding. Editors and scientists alike insist on the pivotal importance of peer review. We portray peer review to the public as a quasi-sacred process that helps to make science our most objective truth teller. But we know that the system of peer review is biased, unjust, unaccountable, incomplete, easily fixed, often insulting, usually ignorant, occasionally foolish, and frequently wrong.[23]

Another:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/02/health...

Anyway, there are more articles on the horrible bias, fraud and other problems when it comes to 'peer review' within the sciences.

It all boils down to the age old cause of all problems... money. The journals dont want to offend those that support them or those that might provide extra funding or they might have economic pressure from the likes of politicians or Al Gore.... for example.

But if you want to discuss evolution, the problems are many with that science, just as it is with the science of creationism. However, no one argues that species evolve over time due to external changes in habitat. The point of contention is when someone tries to explain exactly how we evolved from a single celled being into the complex being that humans are and why are there no other animals that have had their brains evolve at the same rate to the same rate with the same bodily abilities.

here is an interesting article about the science of creationism, not specifics but of the methods... the three questions asked are "can a law explain it, does chance explain it or Does Design explain it?

Read in the article....

I just am tired of the whole argument by news about the whole concept of Peer Review, like that is the JD Power award of science or the Good Housekeeping stamp of approval ... LOL

BE HONEST News

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Aug 8, 2010, at 1:06 AM

john henry's hammer

I read your comment.

The new species of fish that mutated from the previous species is able to survive at significantly lower temperatures...pending peer review of course. That makes it a new species significantly different from its predecessor...again presuming the results will be supported by peer review, Evolutionary processes occur and there is a mountain of evidence to prove it.

And speaking of peer review, not one creationist has ever put any of his/her "evidence" up for peer review...not a single one.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Aug 7, 2010, at 11:48 PM

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424...

Interesting paragraph in this article about the "Recovery" that obama and biden so desparately want.

"The latest figures confirm the labor market has lost much of its momentum in recent months. The private sector has added 90,000 jobs a month on average so far this year, well below the 125,000 needed monthly just to keep up with population growth, let alone recover the eight million jobs lost during the recession. Two-thirds of the private-sector job creation this year occurred in March and April, when the economy's trajectory appeared stronger."

"It's a double whammy because it causes people to take a psychological step back," said Tig Gilliam, chief executive of Adecco Group North America, the staffing firm. "Now, it looks like not only has the economy slowed, but maybe it wasn't as good when it was originally reported as we thought."

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Aug 7, 2010, at 10:28 PM

things that show Obama is VERY disconnected from the reality of our Depression/recession, has not leadership skills, and/or he does not wear the pants in his family:

1. Expensive Mrs Obama trip to Spain: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10219/107...

http://www.theage.com.au/world/while-oba...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnew...

2. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-2...

3. Surprise rise in jobless claims??? surprise? really?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Jobless-cl...

Thats just a few of many examples

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Aug 7, 2010, at 10:26 PM

OKR: LOL ONLY drink Guiness when served in a half full glass with a shot of Bailey's Irish Cream dropped down into it..... why?

I can drink it if I have to... lol

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Aug 7, 2010, at 10:18 PM

Correction

In my previous comment I said "Muted" when in fact I meant to type "Mutated."

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Aug 7, 2010, at 8:30 PM

rr3yv0

As pointed out in the study, 95% died in each trial. The 5% that survived were muted and able to withstand much lower temperatures than their ancestors, At that point they became a new, sslightly different, better adapted species. Its an excellent illustration of how climate change can trigger the evolutionary process. The climate changes dramatically, mutations begin to occur, natural selection chooses those mutations which best contribute to survival of the organism and continuation of the biological line.

Its an interesting study and if it survives peer review, repetition with the same results done independently, then we can begin to draw some interesting conclusions from it.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Aug 7, 2010, at 8:27 PM

Wow micro evolution is all around us news. Species adapt and survive and flourish and if they don't they die. Now is that stickleback grew legs and did the 2 step then you would have something news.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Aug 7, 2010, at 7:22 PM

"Climate change sparks 'quickest evolution ever'"

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0807/climate...

Its interesting to be able to observe and measure the evolutionary process while it is occuring.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Aug 7, 2010, at 6:21 PM

Mrxray...you drink Guiness?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Aug 7, 2010, at 11:06 AM

"When taxes actually go up, when energy actually becomes more expensive, and when the monstrosity that is Obamacare actually takes effect, the name 'Obama' will be worse than 'Herbert Hoover.'" -Rush

"If these people think that they can run against George W. Bush, then that is the single biggest indication of just how stupid they think every one of us happens to be. Obama inherited a deficit that he voted for." -Rush

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Aug 7, 2010, at 6:21 AM

The whole "rich and their fair share" statment that you radical lefties keep saying... how much is enough? 80%, 90%, 95%, 98%, 99% or do you want it ALL?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Aug 7, 2010, at 12:34 AM

When a person is able to stay in office and make a career of the 'service job' then they are more and more likely to become corrupted by the power and money.

For no other reason, there should be term limits AND their pay and compensation should not set them up for life, they should be required to EARN their own living once they are done serving back amongst the common folk that they represented. THIS would give them the fear of their constituents, knowing that they would have to depend on their neighbors when they conduct their business back home.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Aug 7, 2010, at 12:33 AM

OKR: good to see you finally posting the horrible tactics of the Obama admin....lol

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Aug 7, 2010, at 12:29 AM

nanadot... why do they need another tax on stocks... if you make money you pay taxes already.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Aug 7, 2010, at 12:26 AM

How about we get rid of Social Security altogether? Why are we always under the assumption that the government has to do something for it to work? Why don't we let people save for their own retirement? Then you won't have to blame "rich" people for you not having a retirement. When Social Security was originally adopted, the average life expectancy was lower than the retirement age, so the only reason it worked was because the average person would never draw from social security.

Just as a side-note, the most recent CBO data on federal tax rates (2005) shows that the top 1% FEDERAL tax rate is 31.2% of their income. The bottom 20% pay only 4.3% of their income. I think they pay more than their fair share.

-- Posted by AngryAcorn on Fri, Aug 6, 2010, at 11:28 PM

NanaDot

That idea about taxing the filthy, rich capitalists on Wall Street 1/4 cent per transaction is an excellent idea.

I think a lot of folks would support that.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 6, 2010, at 8:35 PM

"Schwarzenegger calls for same-sex weddings"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100806/ap_o...

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 6, 2010, at 8:33 PM

Another possible solution to our Social Security Retirement program funding...

...We can eliminate the ceiling on income subject to Social Security taxes. Its time the rich start paying their fair share.

I believe that would entirely eliminate the solvency problem.

However, there are other solutions as well.

We could for example cut our bloated, unnecessary Pentagon budget. Stop these wars and use the money we would spend on these wars to fund Social Security.

We could also look for other sources of taxes. Some of the Western States are well poised to legalize cannabis for recreational use by adults 21 and over. We should definately capitalize on that. If we legalize recreational use of cannabis for adults 21 of age and older (with sever penalties for any adult making it available to anyone under 21) at the federal level, we could then apply a federal tax on it in any State that legalizes it and in all U.S. territories that legalize it with a portion going to help fund Social Security.

Those are 3 possibilities.

I like to think in the terms once put forth by the late, great John Lennon..."There are no problems...only solutions." We can solve this problem with out raising income taxes and with out raising Social Security taxes and see this highly successful retirment program continue to help our senior citizens for many generations to come.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 6, 2010, at 7:15 PM

"Tea Party candidate sees 'kooky' conspiracy in bike sharing"

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0806/tea-par...

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 6, 2010, at 6:43 PM

I'm with Nanodot, Pay back what it's owed, and leave it alone! I think i heard or read, it's owed 3 Trillion?

-- Posted by Jo on Fri, Aug 6, 2010, at 5:09 PM

so - it's official

social security is broke - in the red - capput - drained - sucked dry - for the first time in 35 years.

any suggestion from the right, left, or down-under how to fix the problem?

zeke

-- Posted by zeke on Fri, Aug 6, 2010, at 1:36 PM

More'n welcome News. Guiness Stout is my favorite as tis my wife's. I do think it makes a great substitute for consomme when consumed cold. We have a domestic difference of opinion on that finer point. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Aug 6, 2010, at 10:48 AM

"No Distribution Shall Be Made to the State of Texas"

No thank you. This should be just the beginning. States need to start telling Washington "no," a lot louder and a lot more often.

http://www.redstate.com/hogan/2010/08/05...

Dems Fall Back on Their Preferred Strategy: Cut and Run

Nancy Pelosi claimed the Democrats were very proud of their agenda these past two years.

Find out if your Democrat is hiding.

http://www.redstate.com/erick/2010/08/05...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Aug 6, 2010, at 6:13 AM

Oklahoma Reader and NanaDot,

If you have room for 3, Guiness Stout is my favorite beer...

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 6, 2010, at 2:55 AM

It would always be my pleasure to hoist a glass of stout with you NanaDot. Cheers back at you, and America go bragh.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Aug 6, 2010, at 1:23 AM

More Obamadness.

It is the position of the Obama Administration that U.S. citizens can become targets of assassination, and be killed without any legal proceedings on behalf of said citizens prior to the said administrative decision. Further, criminal charges may be filed against any U.S. attorney that attempts to represent said U.S. citizen.

Even the Bush Administration did not go that far.

http://www.americablog.com/2010/08/obama...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Aug 6, 2010, at 1:08 AM

Here is another very disappointing move by President Obama. He is subsidizing corporate America by paying for the training of three thousand IT workers in southeast Asia so that our corporations can take advantage of giving them jobs at low foreign wages.

What happened to all his talk about bringing jobs back to America? http://www.commondreams.org/headline/201...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Aug 6, 2010, at 12:50 AM

jhh and rr3, I give up. The sheer volume of the heady position papers that you have provided on this blog has won me over.

As you know there is no one more zealous than a new convert to a cause, so forgive me if I embrace your positions with slightly more zeal than even do you yourselves.

First of all, I agree with you about food stamps. They should be eradicated. New Rule: If you want to eat, and your kids eat, work to eat. If you choose not to work then you can all starve until you are ready to work. No excuses about no jobs available.

Undoubtably that will cause those lazy good for nothings to get creative, and find something to do. After all, it has been the creativity of true capitalists, and nothing else that has made America the wonderful place it has become. If we have to starve them into becoming part of the solution instead of being the problem so be it. Besides that history has shown us that mass starvation can be a good thing when properly handled. One example just jumps right out at you. I thank you for opening my eyes. I doubt I would have seen this sterling example had you not convinced me to think right.

Back during the Irish famine those wise English who ruled the Irish knew what was best for the Irish. They refused to provide them food of any kind. Though the storage bins were full they knew that tough love was best, so they exported what was in the storage bins instead of feeding the indolent poor. In their wisdom they knew that capitalism must continue at all costs before anything else. It was what made England great.

It was simply amazing to see the instant jump in creativity from those supposedly lazy, stupid people of Ireland. The first thing they did as they could no longer afford rashers of bacon, nor fish, and chips, was to, in a body, become vegetarians. Most of them became such avid vegans that they could only eat the grass beside the roadway. It was a uplifting thing to see them in a law abiding manner eat only the grass beside the roadway, and remain mindful that the verdant fields behind fences belonged to the absentee capitalists in England. It must have been picturesque, all those little Irish children, there together with their families, with their little green mouths, and little green hands from all the foraging, and not an obese one in the lot!

Well it didn't stop there. Before long they found creative ways to come to America. Honed to a desperate edge by the no nonsense absence of any kind of welfare state in Ireland they built America to new heights in the mid nineteenth century.

And that's how we got Jack Kennedy one of my favorite presidents. Oh gosh, I guess he can't be that anymore since I am now a right winger.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Aug 5, 2010, at 11:51 PM

Jobless claims raise doubts about economy

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE65...

Unexpected REALLY!!!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 5, 2010, at 6:13 PM

Food stamp use hit record 40.8m in May

Isn't this great what could be better maybe we could get everyone on food stamps. Oh lets not forget all the illegal aliens too.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washin...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 5, 2010, at 6:10 PM

Why Young People are Liberals

Everybody in a minority is a victim according to the left. One of the reasons why young people are liberal is because they're children. Children are used to being taken care of, and liberalism promises to take care of you. The State is going to take care of you. Liberalism means being a child of the State. Liberalism means turning your life over to your rulers and so forth. It's easier. I once told you liberalism is the most gutless choice you can make. It's the easiest thing in life you can do is be a liberal. But a human, even at age 21, most of them can't take care of themselves. And they don't expect to have to. That's why it's easy being a liberal.

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/s...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 5, 2010, at 6:06 PM

Well said John and I do think a lot more people would post on here if they didn't get beat down by all the liberals. But that's their mode of operation, when I treated them like they treated me some of them quite posting but I'm just one those evil conservatives.

CAPITALISM IS BOSS!!!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Aug 5, 2010, at 7:21 AM

Edward Current sets liberals straight:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZRyXkZE9...

You might like this one rr3yv0. Its pretty funny.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Aug 5, 2010, at 7:04 AM

i agree with you 100%, this is a dream but it would be great if we could start over! News Across, you are a smart man, and impress me with a lot of Common Sense. The Politicians has a big majority of the American People losing what common sense they do have. I talk to a lot of my friend on this Political thing and we have nothing in common anymore on Politics! I don't think i should have been seeking ,just how things work in this unfair System,because it really stinks! You and your family take care now1

-- Posted by Jo on Thu, Aug 5, 2010, at 1:08 AM

Xray,

Capitalism is merely an economic system one step beyond Feudalism...and it didn't fall far from the tree.

Economic systems evolve. Karl Marx believed that Socialism is the natural, next step of economic evolotion along the economic scale.

What the next economic system to replace capitalism is -- is anyone's guess, but one thing is for sure, given enough time Capitalism will be replaced by a more effcient, more productive, and more equitable economic system that will be distinctly different from Capitalism.

Capitalism has serious flaws...beginning with the fact that Capitalism only works for some of the members of a society...but not all the members of that society. Some are left out altogether. A system like that cannot last in a World that is growing ever more democratic. The masses won't forever tolerate being left out of the economic system. As democracy rises around the World, so does the power of the economically deprived masses of poor.

So its probably not fair for anyone to ask anyone else to marry the notion of Capitalism being the only possible economic system we have. Economic systems change with time. Feudalsim gave way to capitalism and indeed Capitalism will give way to a new economic system. Capitalism will ultimately cease to be used any place on Earth.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Aug 4, 2010, at 11:33 PM

Jo

For the life of me, I can't figure out why anyone would want the same bunch of folks in charge of Congress who's policies, when they were the majority last time, included 2 wars of aggression fought on behalf of big oil, the United States engaging in the torture of prisoners, legislation meant to chip away at our civil rights such as the Patriot Act, the worst fiscal management since the Great depression, and the worst economic depression since the last Great Depression...back into power.

Jumping from the pan to the fire never makes good sense.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Aug 4, 2010, at 10:03 PM

If anyone thinks Obama can snap his fingers and thing are better in a few Months, have a blank spot in their head and you know it? That Poor Pathic Pea brain BUSH and the rest of his, not going too comply with the Consatitution, or anything else Thugs! ( the ones who are still there!) Should go in there and carry them all out to a garbage truck and dump it in the sewer! You can make all excusies for them you want , but the fact is they are as bad as the mob,and with the decission they make could starve or drive People into something that would ruin their lives forever,and they could care less,they are evil men and every man woman & child should see it! These people are descusting!Not all but enought on both sides!

-- Posted by Jo on Wed, Aug 4, 2010, at 9:10 PM

"Federal judge overturns Calif. gay marriage ban"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38560562/ns/...

I am happy to see this unconstitutional law removed from the books. Finally, gay and lesbian couples in California can enjoy the same benefits of marriage as the straight folks do. This is a good first step in the right direction.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Aug 4, 2010, at 5:47 PM

xray and john I agree with you. Where used to work at a place and if you got hurt on the job because of the union we had to give the employee light duty. This was never fair to the employees that come to work everyday and done their job because they got paid the same but couldn't perform to full capacity. I always called it my sick, lame and lazy section. Then you would have someone get hurt off the job and would bring in a dr note describing their medical restrictions and they could request limited duty work if we had any available. The funny thing was if you told them you didn't have limited duty work that they would have to use their sick leave it was amazing how quickly they would heal and bring in another dr note saying they could come back at full duty. Just like a lot people we have on entitlements and unemployment now if we would cut them off you would be amazed at how many could get off their can and get a job.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Aug 4, 2010, at 3:38 PM

corporation greed comes from individual greed. Each person that makes up the corporation, its owners, investors, employees, suppliers and anyone else involved in the function of the evil big corporation is DRIVEN by INDIVIDUAL greed. Ever...y person in our society is ONLY worried about what affects their own pocket book and bank accounts. So the REALITY of the situation is that individuals within society, encouraged by society by the likes of marketing of celebrity status and instant wealth, are the EXACT same people who make up corporations. To call big corporations evil and greedy is only calling YOURSELF greedy and immoral because YOU make up those evil entities.... Every small business owner has a glimmer of the desire to become filthy rich in their own business... same same....

Greed is an individual problem not the problem of a corporation.

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Aug 4, 2010, at 1:39 PM

news... you know as well as anyone else that it not capitalism failing but the ineptness of the government, its failure to uphold its laws, the failure of the government because of its fraud, waste and abuse by the highest of politicians, the failure of the system to function because of bribe money from 1000s of special interest groups and the unwillingness of any politician to stand up and fight for what is right instead of what pads their pocket...

LOL try and get a grip and take a stab at viewing reality not some theoretical concept of economics, none of which are ever totally correct or applicable.

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Aug 4, 2010, at 1:39 PM

News actually capitalism works well for me because people buy a product and each time they do it helps pay my wages. I would also suspect that capitalism in some form helped you become financially independent. As for the summer of recovery that's what the media and Obama is calling it. Recovery I don't see it now and I only see things getting worse as long as we have these people in power.

Like I say CAPITALISM IS BOSS!!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Aug 4, 2010, at 12:16 PM

rr3yv0

Unlike many of my collegues, I never predicted a Summer of recovery. In fact, I predicted continued, long-term decrease in real consumption, continued high unemployment, along with other economic factors keeping pressure on a rapidly deflating economy.

So...how is that capitalism working out for ya?

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Aug 4, 2010, at 8:59 AM

J.H.H.

On the 3rd you posted a comment witch I will only repeat part of becuse it is so long and I quote.

"I feel for the men out there paying child support and barley getting by,so don't divorce,don't make babies if your not in a stable relationship.

Okay, lets hear it from the bleeding hearts who say boo hoo wecouldn't help it! Life throws things at us we can't help.

You know what, we largely make our own luck through the decisions we make."

Now I will agree with the last part of that we do for the most part make our own luck by our decisions,however and I hope I'm not misinterpeting what you are saying,not all people are out there havin kids just for somthing to do.

My ex and I were together for 9 yrs she left mewhen the oldest was 7.

As for me being a bleeding heart that is a real serious HAHAHAHA.

You probably outto think twice before you go trying to judge or critize people till you know their story.

As the old saying goes "Don't judge a man untill you've walked a mile in his shoes"

-- Posted by midniterebel on Wed, Aug 4, 2010, at 8:41 AM

Stimulus dollars at work. How's that summer of recovery workin for ya!!!

http://coburn.senate.gov/public//index.c...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Aug 4, 2010, at 6:41 AM

Missouri Votes to Block Obama's Health Insurance Mandate

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/08/...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Aug 4, 2010, at 6:22 AM

Evenin' my friend.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Aug 4, 2010, at 1:25 AM

Can you believe that the American people are awakening to the lunacy of continuing the Afghan War? Can you believe that the Administration, and Congress have not? Of course you can.

When is the last time the legislative, and executive branches were on the same page as the American people? Gotta go way back for that, and I ain't talkin Clinton, nor Reagan my conservative bretheren.

New poll:http://www.usatoday.com/news/military/2010-08-02-afghan-poll_N.htm

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Aug 4, 2010, at 1:23 AM

I agree John we have elected the enemy.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 3, 2010, at 9:48 PM

Nanadot I'm wondering if they'd be willing to build a synagogue at Mecca? Oh say about 2 blocks.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 3, 2010, at 9:46 PM

The Terrorists Win: NYC Panel Votes 9-0 for Ground Zero Mosque

You know what this is? Everybody's falling for this notion that there's Muslim outreach going on. This is not Muslim outreach. They're planting the flag of victory with this mosque. That's what they're doing. Opening a mosque at Ground Zero? That says we won. That's what's going on here.

I'm wondering if they'd be willing to build a synagogue at Mecca?

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/s...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 3, 2010, at 5:43 PM

Virginia Attorney General Stands Up for the Constitution

Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli wants immigration checks

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/081...

How the Regime Selectively Enforces the Immigration Laws

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/s...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 3, 2010, at 5:26 PM

A New iPhone Factory Hires 200,000 in China as Obama Economy "Recovers". So how's that summer of recovery workin for ya!!!!

Pending home sales sink 2.6 percent in June

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/arti...

Factory orders drop for second straight month

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/arti...

Welcome to Obamaville people working exactly as planned for all the Obamamaniacs and Obamunist.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Aug 3, 2010, at 5:16 PM

VOTE 'NO' to Proposition C

-- Posted by CWilli on Tue, Aug 3, 2010, at 3:54 PM

Look, all you have to do is vote NAACP. They are usually in favor of government programs that actually help the people and reduce government waste. Are they in favor of Prop C? Ask yourself what you think the NAACP would do, and do that. Defend yourself people.

-- Posted by AngryAcorn on Tue, Aug 3, 2010, at 1:35 PM

JHH the government can not fix the mess we are in, only the people have that potential.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Aug 3, 2010, at 12:15 PM

Vote no on Prop C, a dead end road that goes nowhere. It does with your tax dollars, line the pockets of lawyers who will line up along that deadend, and drag the case out to its foregone conclusion.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Aug 3, 2010, at 12:10 PM

JHH,

And then what? Millions going to lawyers and banks? What's that? Corporations are running the show? When did that happen? Must be just since Obama took office I'm guessing.

Guess who got rich off the Iraq war.

As much as this all may be BS, if they're are gonna take my money anyway, at least maybe it will help to allevaite someone's suffering instead of inflicting it.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Aug 3, 2010, at 11:57 AM

midnite rebel Prop C will not effect your status because it will never go into effect. It will be found unconstitutional.

But should Prop C pass, that unconstitutional ruling will only be made after huge amounts of state tax payer's dollars, and federal tax payer's dollars are wasted in the charade as it is appealed all the way through the court system before being overturned by the Supreme Court of our nation.

In my opinion those politicians who support it know that it will never become law, but in cynical disrespect for the intelligence of their constituency support it because it allows them to tap into the antigovernment mindset of disgruntled citizens. They apparently believe that the people who will vote for them are too stupid to know that Prop C is born a dead duck, and will like their false populist position.

In my opinion the intelligent informed voter will have the savvy to go to the polls, vote against, because we need to cut frivolous waste of tax payer dollars.

By the way in my opinion the current health care reform is a patched together monstrosity with more given to corporations, than humans. The best I can say is that it is a start, but in dire need of reform. A vote against Prop C is not a vote of endorsement of the health plan, it is a vote against wasting tax payer dollars.

Second by the way, I sympathize with your unfortunate position. Hopefully things will get better.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Aug 3, 2010, at 10:53 AM

JHH,

"Death Panels?" Really? Funny, you don't look like Sarah Palin. News flash, death panels, as you like to refer to them have been around for years as they are in fact the insurance companies.

Who's trying to scare who?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Aug 3, 2010, at 9:12 AM

I don't know exactly how to vote on prop C.

Maybe somone can shed some light for me. Here's MY situation I barely make over min wage almost half my check goes to child support with the cost of food,gas,rent, and utilites insurence is just a dream. Yes I use the E.R. as a primary source for medical but I almost have to be dead before I go. Then it's to find out whats wrong get some scripts for antibiatics go home and when the bills come in I make a payment deal and stick to like my life depends on it because someday it just might, and now they know I mean what I say when I tell them I'll pay X amount on such and such day(I take care of bussiness).

I realize some people don't, so the others have to pay the price of these deadbeats.

Sorry about all the info but now with all of it out there without anyones personal oppions blinding them just on MY info how should I vote so I can still survive on my bring home pay?

Any help would be apreicated.

-- Posted by midniterebel on Tue, Aug 3, 2010, at 9:06 AM

It sounds to me like argument in favor of Prop C comes down to this: states' rights trump personal responsibility.

I'm voting for personal responsibility. Still looks to me like health reforms will make the system more fair and more efficient. I'm voting No.

-- Posted by taxedpayer on Tue, Aug 3, 2010, at 7:21 AM

Wrong Speakout...sorry.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Aug 2, 2010, at 11:33 PM

Well NanaDot...anything else? ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Aug 2, 2010, at 11:32 PM

Is Fascism from the extreme right a possibility?

-- Posted by izaak on Mon, Aug 2, 2010, at 10:47 AM

The politics forum was getting kind of full, so I rebooted it. Talk away!

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Mon, Aug 2, 2010, at 9:10 AM


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