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Wednesday, May 4, 2016

Speak Out [politics] June 13 to Aug. 2, 2010

Sunday, June 13, 2010


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corporation greed comes from individual greed. Each person that makes up the corporation, its owners, investors, employees, suppliers and anyone else involved in the function of the evil big corporation is DRIVEN by INDIVIDUAL greed. Ever...y person in our society is ONLY worried about what affects their own pocket book and bank accounts. So the REALITY of the situation is that individuals within society, encouraged by society by the likes of marketing of celebrity status and instant wealth, are the EXACT same people who make up corporations. To call big corporations evil and greedy is only calling YOURSELF greedy and immoral because YOU make up those evil entities.... Every small business owner has a glimmer of the desire to become filthy rich in their own business... same same....

Greed is an individual problem not something that happens once you become a big evil corporation.

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Aug 4, 2010, at 1:35 PM

glad to see that 71% of missourians are SMART and voted yes for Prop C.

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Aug 4, 2010, at 1:34 PM

NanaDot

I agree 100% with WTF...that was awsome!!

..I might also like to add...right on! right on! right on!!!

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Aug 3, 2010, at 1:18 AM

Well NanaDot anything else that none of the rest of us knew? Wow. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Aug 2, 2010, at 11:39 PM

Just a reminder, Eric opened a new politics blog so you might want to go back to the front page of the site to start posting to the new political area.

-- Posted by Philemon on Mon, Aug 2, 2010, at 1:29 PM

Thank you NanaDot!

That was priceless!

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Aug 2, 2010, at 11:29 AM

"Greenspan: End Bush tax cuts"

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0801/greensp...

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Aug 2, 2010, at 8:44 AM

You don't get it news read my post the burden of proof is on you mate.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Aug 2, 2010, at 7:19 AM

rr3yv0

Dr. Andy Thomson covers all your questions in his lecture. Perhaps you should watch it again mate. However, if you want to contact Dr. Thomson and ask him your questions, I feel certain he would be happy to help you. After all, he is the expert.

You may be able to reach Dr, Thomson at the University of Virginia's Institute of Law, Psychiatry and Public Policy.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Aug 2, 2010, at 2:30 AM

News

Sorry but your video shows me that your moral foundation has come from man and that is not reliable. Moral foundations has to come from something that stays the same never changes and loves us humans despite how much we screw up and that can only be God. The video raises many questions even from a logical point of view you have to wonder where they come up with this. It amazes me some of the most educated people cannot look at things logically. That's the way we were designed I suppose. I came up with a couple of questions maybe you can answer them for me mate.

In the examples used in the video about the cost of 1 life to save five does nothing to explain where we get the moral foundation to not hurt or kill someone? Thomson explains it as a moral feeling but where does it come from? Where does the moral domains of:

Harm/care

Reciprocity/fairness

Authority/hierarchy

Community/coalitions

Purity

come from?

How is the brain designed to trigger these reactions? Has this happened by chance?

Moral Intuition

The sudden appearance in consciousness of an evaluative feeling without any conscious awareness of having gone through steps of search, weighing evidence, or inferring a conclusion. Haidt & Bjorklund, 2008

Sounds like common sense to me but does not explain why we have it. He said it shows up in infants 6-10 months of age sounds like we were designed by someone a lot more intelligent than us don't you think? How would an infant have this ability otherwise? Our moral grammar evolved over millions of years if that was the case why do we have bad people? According to evolution we should be evolving toward perfection but seems to me we are heading in the wrong direction kind of like when God destroyed the earth with the flood don't you think? Moral reasoning is a conscious mental activity and so is a multitude of other things that is mostly related to the human species. Any thought to how our language evolved as we know it why don't we grunt like pigs or moo like cows?

Thomson says our right and wrong is more flexible than we care to believe and are impacted by strong moral emotions but they shift? He also says that animals are as equally evolved as we are do you believe that?

The only thing I agreed with was Thomson saying we always thing of ourselves more moral than someone else, we think of ourselves as less biased then someone else and he stated that by the grace of God he did not experience Katrina. Psychopath traits are hereditary if it is actually a genetic fault then yes but can believers in God be hereditary no it is free will that is given to us. How did Cain know he had committed murder when he killed Abel? How did Adam and Eve know they had sinned and they were naked? My main point is that these educated men cannot tell you where your moral foundation comes from except that it evolved. I just pray I have as much faith God as you do in man.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Aug 2, 2010, at 12:40 AM

rr3yv0

I thought you might like to watch this. Its a lecture on the biological/evolutionary roots of morality...where our morality -- and more specifically our altruism -- actually comes from'

Its given by Dr. Andy Thomson, a psychiatrist in Charlottesville, Virginia. He has a private practice of general psychiatry and forensic psychiatry as well as serving as a staff psychiatrist at the University of Virginia's Institute of Law. It also includes an introduction by Dr. Richard Dawkins.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnXmDaI8I...

I think you might enjoy it.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Aug 1, 2010, at 9:04 PM

I see.

John Henry, I just merely posed the question.

As to where I wanted to take it or what I might read into it, those are your assumptions.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Aug 1, 2010, at 8:48 PM

wtf to answer your question yes the bible needs to be interpreted literally. But unless you believe that it is the true, inspired written word of God then it is a historical book and the symbolism used in it means nothing. Like John said the bible doesn't always cast its characters in a positive light but that is to give us hope as sinners we can also gain favor by accepting Jesus Christ no matter what kind of character we are or have been. When we read the bible we need to ask who, what, where, and why or we can easily take it out of context.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Aug 1, 2010, at 8:34 PM

Interpreting the bible has no relevance on interpreting our constitution. For the constitution to be a living breathing document we would have to ignore the rules for making changes to the constitution that are laid out by the founders. Every time a president behaves like FDR and attempts to manipulate or intimidate one of the other branches of the government they are ignoring the constitution.

Interpreting the constitution using the 'liberal' progressive ideals involves attempting to find any little word and using modern definitions and attempts at manipulation to make the constitution fit their ideals and that is totally against the intent of the constitution.

Just take how they misdefine the world Welfare in the general welfare clause and change the meaning from what the word meant in the 1700s in order to push a social agenda that the government should not even be addressing except in the most general terms allowing the states and churches and individuals to provide for the care of their OWN families. It is strange that along with the 'progress' in our society where the government became more involved in 'caring' for the poor and those unable to work that the individual and the churches and the states stopped taking care of their own, or their efforts were greatly reduced over time because everyone became used to someone else doing it for them. So much for progress because having the Fed Govt do this for us has become so expensive and full of fraud waste and abuse so the bang for the buck is dramatically reduced by having the 'government' provide all things for all people

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Aug 1, 2010, at 7:51 PM

There's a lot of talk going on about "literal interpretations". One has to wonder, does that aslo apply to the bible? If not, why?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Aug 1, 2010, at 8:49 AM

I didn't think literal interpretation was guessing is it?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Aug 1, 2010, at 8:06 AM

Federalist Paper No. 84 I find particularly interesting. http://www.constitution.org/fed/federa84...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Aug 1, 2010, at 3:10 AM

Rr3 you might want to start by reading the Federalist papers. To me they are some of our most intriguing historical documents. In my opinion they are invaluable information as to what, and why our founders believed as they did regarding government. http://www.constitution.org/fed/federa00...

I believe that by reading, and comprehending the content of such documents one's opinion as to the Constitution becomes less of a guess, and more of an informed opinion.

I am not saying that it will lead one to either a strict constructionist, or living document point of view. I am saying that rigorous scholarship gives one more credibility as to what "The Founders" thought than just guessing at it.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Aug 1, 2010, at 3:01 AM

Can we really know what the Founding Fathers intended besides literal interpretation? Anything else would be speculation wouldn't it?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Jul 31, 2010, at 8:57 PM

john henry's hammer

One of the major critisims of the strict constructionist approach to the constitution is that they are interpreting the constitution even though they say they are not.

For example, strict constructionist Judge Bork writes in one legal opinion that free speech only protects political speech. Where do you see that written in the 1st Ammendement? Where do those words appear? The problem is this mate. When we read a sentence we all interpret each word in that sentence and the sentence as a whole in one way or another. There is no way to read something and not interpret it.

So the question is...are you correctly interpreting what our Founding Fathers said? With out going to other speeches, essays, articles, and books written by the Founding Fathers, we have no way of knowing if the strict constructionist is correct in his interpretation. Often times when we do look further into what the Founding Fathers wanted -- as recommended by the liberal interpretationist approach, we find that the strict constructionist approach is woefully indadequate and often incorrect, many times in direct conflict to what the Founding Fathers intended.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Jul 31, 2010, at 5:34 PM

john henry's hammer

Actually mate, politically, an American Conservative in the modern sense of the word is defined as one who follows the school of thought of "Strict Constructionism" of the Constitution. A strict constructionist professes a literal reading of the Constitution. He/she believes that if it is not written specifically in the Constitution that it does not apply. They believe that the Constitution is a rigid document.

In addition, the modern conservative follows the Economic theory of "Neo-classical Economics." It goes by many names, supply side economics, free market economics, ect. They are all actually Neo-classical Economic Theory. Basically, Neo-classical Economic Theory holds that the best way to stimulate the economy is by using the Federal Tax multiplier. They believe that depressions are self-correcting and believe Government should have only a limited role in influencing the economy.

A liberal in the modern sense follows the school of political science that reads the constitution from the "Liberal Interpretationist" view point. The Liberal Interpretationist philosophy professes that by reading and studying statements, speeches, essays, and books written by the Founding Fathers we can better understand what the Constitution means. They believe that the Founding Fathers designed a flexible document meant to work as well today as it did when the States ratified it. This view is sometimes called the "Living Document" view as well.

Liberal philosphy follows Keynesian Economic Theory. Basically, this theory holds that economies are better stimulated by utilizing the Federal Spending multiplier, and that inflation can be best controled by utilizing monetary policy.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Jul 31, 2010, at 3:58 AM

Right to refuse to answer any questions -- without any reprecussions for doing so...CONSTITUTIONAL

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Jul 31, 2010, at 3:32 AM

Stopping you for a violation of law, traffic or criminal... constitutional

Asking you for ID/Driver's license: Constitutional

Asking you where you are going, what you are going there for, and other questions to determine if you are hiding any other criminal action: Constitutional

If after the line of questioning regarind the legal interaction you suspect the person of being an illegal alien you start investigating this line of thought: CONSTITUTIONAL

ALL of these things have already been declared constitutional and standard operating procedure for police officers and have been challenged in a court of law.

WHat is NOT constitutional is sanctuary cities... where is the Obama DOJ on this issue, where are the criminal prosecutions for the blatant violations of FEDERAL law that Obama has sworn to uphold?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jul 31, 2010, at 2:21 AM

In fact, news... by using the term gestapo type tactics you are saying that this law somehow give the police the right to come and knock on anyones door and ask for their papers and you KNOW that this incorrect.... lol such a dishonest argument from someone who claims to have his/her opinions always based on sources that he/she claims are above and beyond everyone else's LOL

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jul 31, 2010, at 2:17 AM

My concern is for those folks who are citizens or lawful immigrants. Gestopo style tactics and racist profiling violate our civil rights.

NEWS... your statement above is nothing but leftist propaganda and rhetoric and unfounded not in fact but in assumptions and emotional ideals that are not based in reality.

For your statement above to be true a majority of the police officers would have to set out from the first day this law takes effect and ignore the law when it specifically says you have to have a LEGAL contact PRIOR to questioning citizenship status and that those same officers would have to be willing to break the law and get fired, thus losing their source of income to support their families.... again, you fail to use honest discussion and admit that the state law does nothing that the federal laws dont already do... the prosecution of any illegal will still be done by the feds, only the state will have the power to investigate and then send them to the feds for deportation or prosecution... which is the EXACT same situation that we have now with the federal laws...

there is NO proven racial profiling nor any racist aspect to this law. YOU have failed in providing any thing other than baseless rhetoric to support your opinion on this.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jul 31, 2010, at 2:15 AM

I love the 20/20 hindsight of the liberals... American imperialism was simply a means to keep up with the rest of the world's powers in order to protect our own very young nation that many other nations still had their eyes on. Had the US not participated in the imperialism that the other leading nations had done, it may not have had the resources and the facilities across the globe to protect its interests. BUT every nation was conducting these same strategic maneuvers throughout the world.

We barely managed to survive the revolution so that our nation could start the new experiement in governance. We had to utilize the same tactics if we wanted to protect ourselves from being the target of other nations.

Sure, we also did it to garner resources which provided wealth for our nation and individuals... that is how the world works in reality.

When you attempt to berate and bemoan history, you should at least be honest to do so in historical perspective.

Slavery was wrong and totally against human rights and equality of all. HOWEVER in historical contexted slavery was a practice that started 1000s of years ago and was a practice what was NOT racist, but a practice based on conquering of other nations, regardless of their 'color'. Black tribes in Africa captured other black tribes and then sold them all over the world, to anyone who came to their shores with goods and gold to trade.

It only became a racism issue when our nation started to acknowledge that this practice of slavery was wrong, wrong regardless of the color of the slaves and that BECAUSE of the natural rights that all men have regardless of their color. In our nation the black people were the major group of people that were slaves. Because it was not possible for all people in the USA to instantly change their concept of slavery, it became an issue of race, which we are still dealing with today.

So you have to view history in historical contexted and not do the dishonest comparison to what we know and think today......

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jul 31, 2010, at 2:08 AM

Shut Up Soldier

I am so tired, I am so weary, I do not think I can go again.

Shut up soldier, you volunteered, say not you where, or when.

Friends have died, some lame, must we play the empire game?

Shut up soldier, stay on the board, you have only you to blame.

How many years must I fight? O how many times must I kill?

Shut up soldier, say no more, fight til rich men have their fill.

My hands they shake, my head it aches, I just speak between my sobs.

Shut up soldier, there's no going home, in your home land are no jobs.

After I wrote this poem a little bit ago I got to a lookin at it? Well, I thought, that needs a little tightenen up. So, here is the finished product, at least for now.

I think, and grieve every day about the plight of our troops who are so worn out, mind, body, and soul from deployment after deployment.

STOP THE WAR

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Jul 31, 2010, at 1:14 AM

I am so tired, I am so weary, I do not think I can go again.

Shut up soldier, you volunteered, say not you where, or when.

Some friends have died, some are lame, why must I play this empire game?

Shut up soldier, stay on the board, you have only yourself to blame.

How many years must I fight? O how many times must I kill?

Shut up soldier, say no more, fight til rich men have their fill.

My hands they shake, my head it aches, and I only speak between my sobs.

Shut up soldier, there's no going home, in your home land are no jobs.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Jul 31, 2010, at 12:25 AM

rr3yv0

For your reading pleasure mate...

"American imperialism"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_im...

"American Empire page"

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Americ...

"The American Empire Is Bankrupt"

http://www.truthdig.com/report/print/200...

"DECLINE AND FALL OF THE AMERICAN EMPIRE"

http://www.financialsensearchive.com/edi...

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jul 30, 2010, at 4:04 PM

correction

in my previous posting, I meant blood not bloos...yep I am still the undisputed typo king!

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jul 30, 2010, at 3:45 PM

"July becomes deadliest month for U.S. forces in Afghanistan"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38481601/ns/...

Our childrens precious bloos -- spilt for Big Oil.

What a shameful way to treat our troops.

LET'S END THESE IMMORAL WARS NOW!!

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jul 30, 2010, at 3:41 PM

Thanks Jo and Nanadot.

We are really looking forward to the trip. 1 week in San Francisco right on Union Square in the heart of the city, 1 week in Independence, then 1 week in Chicago right down of of Wacker Drive in the heart of the Loop. 5 star Hotels in San fran and Chicago...nice!!!

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jul 30, 2010, at 3:25 PM

Empire building wheres the empire? I know you would really hate to miss seeing me after traveling all this way wouldn't you news? Sounds like I need to get with Jo and Nanadot to give you a welcome home party what do you think?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Jul 30, 2010, at 1:40 PM

Enjoy your trip back Home News Across! I welcome you back my friend. Have a safe trip!

-- Posted by Jo on Fri, Jul 30, 2010, at 11:11 AM

"Kabul rioters burn SUVs, yell 'Death to America'"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38485760/ns/...

Did you notice they wern't yelling "Death to the Taliban?"

I don't think these folks want us in their Country.

Empire building...its a real bad idea.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jul 30, 2010, at 10:21 AM

john henry's hammer

American citizens who have duel citizenship or are permanent residents of another country are under no obligation to return to the United States ever. In additon, a natural born citizen's American citizenship cannot be revoked (see 14th Ammendment to the Constitution for more on this). I am coming back to visit my family -- and no other reason.

As for choosing one of the other...no...request denied. I will keep both my citizenships, thank you very much, an I will live in either country when ever and where ever I want to.

As to your comment about our Founding Fathers...they were the liberals. The conservatives were the loyalists who prefered to remain part of Great Britain.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jul 30, 2010, at 10:01 AM

rr3yv0

Yeah, you won't know if you see me or not and if you did see me so what? I mean what makes you think I am coming to visit you? We really do have better things to do in Marshall than waste our time on nonsense mate. But if that little fantasy of yours floats your boat...have at it mate..lol lol lol.

Anyway the facts are all in the links mate...its a war over oil just like the Iraq war and its nothing but empire building...in stark contrast to every principle this Nation was founded on.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jul 30, 2010, at 7:19 AM

Keep listening to those that tickle your ears and you will never hear the truth news. See ya in town mate.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Jul 30, 2010, at 6:40 AM

WHY ARE WE IN AFGHANISTAN?

BIG OIL!

I hear a lot of folks tell me that we are at war in Afghanistan because they attacked us on 9/11.

However the fact is, Afghanistan never attacked us at all and none of the 19 hijackers was Afghan or Taliban.

Some folks say we are there because the Taliban was sheltering Bin Laden.

However the fact is the Afghan Government took Bin Laden into custody immediately after 9/11 and offered to extradite him if the USA could provide evidence that Bin Laden was connected to 9/11. Bush refused to show them any evidence and in fact he didn't have any direct evidence that Bin laden was behind or involved with 9/11.

So the Afghan Governement offered to turn Bin Laden over to a 3rd country for trial...such as Pakistan or Egypt. Bush refused the offer...despite the fact that almost any 3rd party country would have most likely turned Bin Laden over to us immediately.

So we know that the Taliban had nothing to do with 9/11 nor has our Governement ever charged them with being behind that attack on 9/11.

However, coincidentally, Big Oil, specifically Unocal, had been lobbying the Taliban for permission to build an oil pipeline to run from Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan and Russia through Afghanistan into Pakistan and on to the high seas. But the Afghan Governement refused to allow the pipline to go through Afghanistan.

Fast foward...the USA sets up a puppet government in Afghanistan and installs Hamid Karzai as intermim leader of Afghanistan. Coincidentally, it turns out that Karsai may have had close ties to Unocal in the years prior to our invasion of Afghanistan. What a coinkidink...eh? Unocal later denied Karzai was a paid consultant of Unocal.

The pipeline is currently under construction in Afganistan now.

So what do we have? An unprovoked attack on Afghanistan and all of a sudden we get that pipeline we wanted for years but could not get from the Taliban Government of Afganistan.

Yes this is definately a war with a lot of odd coincidents...and to a lot of us too many coincidents = no coincident at all.

Folks please write, email, or call our Senators and demand they end all funding of this immoral war of agression and withdraw our troops immediately so that no more of our kids will die to make Big Oil richer.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2002/...

http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.j...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/oct...

http://www.j-n-v.org/AW_briefings/ARROW_...

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/sardi7.h...

http://commdocs.house.gov/committees/int...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghanistan...

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/w...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamid_Karza...

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jul 30, 2010, at 1:58 AM

rr3yv0

I've spent other people's money before (with their consent) and I was very thrifty...in fact far more thrifty than I am when I spend my own money.

So...I guess you statement is not true for everyone. Perhaps its only true for you.

As to the Federal Governement controlling immigration, the President just recently order the National Guard to patrol the border with Mexico in additon to other strict measures he has ordered recently.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story...

The fact is mate that the immigration issue and the related crime issues have been ongoing long before the teabaggers in Arizona started crying about it. So given that drug smugglers have been operating on the border for years -- and often get caught and prosecuted -- and other crimes have been committed by both undocumented workers and American citizens, why all of a sudden are the teabaggers in Arizona in an uproar? It may have something to do with their Facsist political beliefs.

" Fourteen Defining

Characteristics Of Fascism"

"3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc."

http://www.rense.com/general37/char.htm

Remember mate...if it walks like a Fascist and it talks like a fascist...it probably is a fascist...even if the person does not call their political belief fascism and even if they don't know their political beliefs are consistant with fascist political philosophy.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jul 30, 2010, at 12:38 AM

Correction:

I do need my wife's consent to go to Marshall...if I know what is good for me...lol lol lol...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jul 29, 2010, at 11:46 PM

rr3yv0

Uh yeah I do know.

Only I know when I will be in Marshall. I have a Missouri accent -- not an Australian accent -- and you have no idea who I am and even if you did know, what makes you think you would bump into me and what difference would it make if you did?

Its still a semi-free Country mate and I am a free man. I will go to any town I want to go to and stay a long as I like. Its not like I need anyone's consent to go to Marshall...mate.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jul 29, 2010, at 11:44 PM

Hey news I am all for punishing those that employ illegals. I didn't really mean you were threatened just making the point that we here this story often. Lets adopt Australian law I still think our federal government could get a lot more done working with Arizona then they can by suing them. But hey when your spending OPM it doesn't matter if you are productive or thrifty.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jul 29, 2010, at 11:28 PM

...and rr3yv0...

I was merely responding to John's comment. I stated the facts -- no brag, just fact.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jul 29, 2010, at 11:22 PM

rr3yv0

Lol Lol Lol Lol...who is threatening me?

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jul 29, 2010, at 11:17 PM

rr3yv0

I certainly support our Federal Government enforcing our immigration laws.

What I oppose is the violation of the civil rights of American citizens and lawful alien residents.

May I recommend that we take the example of how Australia handles undocumented, migrant workers. Here if an employer hires an unlawful migrant worker they are subject to an immediate $60,000.00 fine payable on the spot for each undocumented worker they are found to have employed.

If you really want to stop undocumented migrant workers from coming to the USA for jobs...start penalizing the capitalists who employ them.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jul 29, 2010, at 11:16 PM

John I guess he really told you don't worry he sings this song all the time when he feels threatened.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jul 29, 2010, at 11:07 PM

I never said it would make any difference and no you really don't know.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jul 29, 2010, at 11:05 PM

rr3yv0

Yeah I do know mate. You will never know I am in Marshall. Even if you did know, what difference would it make?

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jul 29, 2010, at 10:57 PM

john henry's hammer

Actually I do have the resources mate. I am not anywhere near poor and I certainly can afford a lawyer, and yes if my civil rights are violated I will be suing.

In additon, no I won't be showing my American passport to anyone but the customs agent at the border. In addition, my drivers license is issued by the State of New South Wales, Australia and its the only thing I would show to a police officer in terms of identification. My license is current and, under treaty with Australia, allows me the same driving privaleges I would have with a Missouri drivers license...anywhere in the United States.

As regards dual citizenship...its perfectly legal mate and at no time have I ever given up my American citizenship -- nor would I give it up under any circumstances. In addition, I was born in the United States (Kansas City, Missouri) and my family goes way back in America to prior to our War of Independence. So, my American citizenship is not up for debate mate. The 14 Ammendment to our Federal Constitution gurantees that my American citizenship cannot be revoked under any circumstances except for an act of treason...which I would never commit.

One last thing. I live in Australia where everyone says mate...I use it mostly out of habit but I do intend to continue to use that "lingo." I don't require your approval of what "lingo" I use nor is your approval desired. I don't take my marching orders from the likes of you mate.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jul 29, 2010, at 10:56 PM

You would be surprised news.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jul 29, 2010, at 10:53 PM

72 Percent Say Government Not Enforcing Immigration Laws

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/07/29/fox...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jul 29, 2010, at 10:50 PM

rr3yv0

You will never even know I am in Marshall mate.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jul 29, 2010, at 10:37 PM

john henry's hammer

Opposing the unconstitional Arizona immigration law is not the same as supporting unlawful migration by undocumented workers.

My concern is for those folks who are citizens or lawful immigrants. Gestopo style tactics and racist profiling violate our civil rights.

In addition, our Constitutional Rights apply to everyone inside American borders...not just citizens.

Yick Wo v. Hopkins (1886)

Wong Wing v. U.S. (1896)

Plyler v. Doe (1982)

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jul 29, 2010, at 10:36 PM

Sounds like a liberal always wanting to sue somebody news. Look forward to seeing you in Marshall.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jul 29, 2010, at 10:32 PM

News I suspect you or the Australian government would not tolerate illegal immigrants overrunning your towns and communities now would you?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jul 29, 2010, at 10:30 PM

Ok news if you have a Missouri drivers license then you would need a birth certificate. Do you think that is right or constitutional?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jul 29, 2010, at 10:27 PM

Gates, Mullen Blast WikiLeaks for Disclosures

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/07/...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jul 29, 2010, at 10:23 PM

john henry's hammer

I live in Australia where I am also a citizen.

I am also a natural born American Citizen.

I am coming to the USA in Aug and Sept to visit with family.

Do you think I should have to provide my "papers" other than showing my American passport when I enter the USA?

Other than showing my passport when I go through customs, I don't have to show squat to a cop other than my drivers license...and I won't. I am an American citizen and my other citizenship has no bearing on that what-so-ever. So beyond going through customs, I will only be providing my Australian drivers license as identification if asked by a policeman. If I am arrested for not providing immigration papers, I will be suing.

I am an American citizen and I do not have to show my "papers" to anyone. Gestopo tactics like those promoted by Arizona will do nothing but get them sued.

rr3yv0

You say the Arizona law is not unconstitutional.

A Federal Judge says it is unconstitutional.

Which opinion do you think has more credibility?

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jul 29, 2010, at 10:20 PM

john henry's hammer

You ask if I ever took an oath to our Nation.

Yes I did.

I am a Vietnam Era veteran of the United States Army.

I served our Nation with honor.

As to your belief in our Democratic Republic. then you believe in our Bill of Rights. This means the right of the individual comes before that of the majority except where such right threatens the physical well-being of the entire population.

So are you supporting the right of the individual to remain silent (with out any legal consequences for invoking that right) when asked to provide immigration papers by the police?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_...

http://www.answers.com/topic/republic

http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Democra...

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionar...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jul 29, 2010, at 10:00 PM

Folks we do not have to tolerate the Unified Facist Party (Republicans + Democrats) running our Nation into the Ground.

We have other viable parties we can vote for.

Here is a list of some of the top parties running candidates this election and their party platforms.

GREEN PARTY USA

http://www.gp.org/committees/platform/co...

LIBERTARIAN PARTY

http://www.lp.org/platform

SOCIALIST PARTY USA

http://socialistparty-usa.org/platform/

THE CONSTITUTION PARTY

http://www.constitutionparty.com/

COMMUNIST PARTY USA

http://cpusa.org/communist-party-resolve...

CENTRIST PARTY

http://www.uscentrist.org/platform

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jul 29, 2010, at 9:25 PM

Honor at Last for Roy P Benavidez

http://www.sofmag.com/wp/2010/02/honor-a...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jul 29, 2010, at 9:23 PM

News regarding Arizona the law is not unconstitutional and they already have blood on the streets. If you can't support a state protecting their people when the federal government won't then the blood is on your hands. I suspect you or the Australian government would not tolerate illegal immigrants overrunning your towns and communities now would you?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jul 29, 2010, at 9:07 PM

"A mongrel is the offspring of two different breeds of dog -- that's why it's a very strange way to describe yourself, as Obama did. You know, let me say that. Let me come up with that description on my own, and see what happens. Let me say it not quoting Obama, and let's see what happens." Rush

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jul 29, 2010, at 9:01 PM

Postracial President: African-Americans are a "Mongrel People"

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/s...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jul 29, 2010, at 8:53 PM

Poll: Nearly 6 in 10 Pakistanis view US as the enemy:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38473964/ns/...

This is one of the bi-products of empire building. How many new enemies have the Unified Facist Party (Republicans + Democrats) war-mongering policies created lately?

Empire building is bad business. It will be our undoing. We need to bring all of our troops home from the 130 countries we have troops stationed in and begin behaving as a responsible member of the World Community...or we will surely fall.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jul 29, 2010, at 8:11 PM

"Protests as Arizona appeals immigration ruling"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38467252/ns/...

Racism is not going to solve the immigration problem...but it will cause massive rioting...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jul 29, 2010, at 7:56 PM

"ESTABLISHING A NEW NORMAL:

National Security, Civil Liberties, and Human Rights

Under the Obama Administration"

http://www.aclu.org/files/assets/Establi...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jul 29, 2010, at 7:35 PM

"'Worst Bush-era policies' becoming the 'new normal': ACLU"

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0729/aclu-re...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jul 29, 2010, at 7:31 PM

1.) That law violates the Constitutional rights of both American citizens and undocumanted workers.

2.) The issue of "States Rights" was settled by the Civil War.

3.) The key parts of the unconstitutional Arizona racist law have been struck down by a Federal Court.

4.) Anyone who thinks We The People will stand quietly by while racist teabaggers, neocons, libertairians, and Republicans strip of us our civil rights had best think twice because as history has shown...there Will be blood in the streest. Its sad that some folks forget the lessons of the past and that because of their ignornce we have to now relive it.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jul 29, 2010, at 7:29 PM

Ethics Panel Accuses Rep. Charles Rangel of 13 Violations

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/rangel-...

Foreclosures Surge in Most Big Cities as Home Crisis Spreads

http://www.moneynews.com/Headline/US-For...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jul 29, 2010, at 3:54 PM

Sorry news you accusing me of anything adds zero credibility to your argument.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jul 29, 2010, at 6:42 AM

Announced today record number of houses going into forclosure. 1 in 15 in Las Vegas. I thought the Democrats has already fixed this oh I forgot Las Vegas unemployment nearly 15%. How's that Summer of Recovery thing working for ya?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jul 29, 2010, at 6:15 AM

From the most transparent administration ever??

Freedom of Information Act now is being denied.

http://www.glennbeck.com/content/article...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jul 29, 2010, at 6:07 AM

Why is CAIR so afraid of a protest that hasn't happened?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jul 29, 2010, at 6:04 AM

I guess that would mean to you that the rest of the country could go back to the Indians. Yah that would do it and then we could say we were sorry and then everyone would be happy in our eutopia. Right news!! Part of governments responsibility is to protect its citizens and they are not doing it. So who is a supporter of constitutional rights? If this would be taken care of at the border the states wouldn't have to undergo the task.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jul 29, 2010, at 5:53 AM

Teabagger Racism at it Again...

"CAIR slams 'KKK tactics,' says Tea Party changing focus to 'promotion of Islamophobia'"

"...organized by the Southwest Riverside County Tea Party. Protest supporters "are being told to bring dogs to harass Muslim worshipers," CAIR said."

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0728/tea-par...

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Jul 28, 2010, at 8:49 PM

rr3yv0

Well I am not surprised you object to the ruling mate...you clearly are not a big supporter of our Constitutional rights.

Anyway, as to your suggestion, yes we should give back to Mexico the 1/2 of their Country we stole from them at gun point.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Jul 28, 2010, at 7:33 PM

Democrats, Not Mortgage Holders, are Villains of the Subprime Crisis

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/s...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jul 28, 2010, at 7:05 PM

I guess it will no longer be illegal to be illegal?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jul 28, 2010, at 7:01 PM

I guess we could just give a couple of our southern states to Mexico and then we would have nothing to worry about. That wouldn't be racist would it?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jul 28, 2010, at 6:42 PM

Judge deals serious blow to Arizona immigration law:

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/07/28/ari...

Thank Goodness this racist law has had its teeth and claws removed.

Let this be a warning to racists and fascists everywhere, We the People will defeat you at every turn!!

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Jul 28, 2010, at 5:21 PM

On TUESDAY, vote NO on PROPOSITION C

http://www.kansascity.com/2010/07/23/210...

-- Posted by CWilli on Wed, Jul 28, 2010, at 2:13 PM

Wow news and nanadot must be the same person!!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jul 28, 2010, at 1:40 PM

News I never said that you have to accept anything that I post on here. As for moral grounding I would think a person such as yourself would know instead of being based just on what someone said. Again this is not an academic institution unless I am missing something. I understand you are knowledgeable in economic facts but do you know what will work in the real world? Or just the academic world? Where do you think moral foundations come from anyway?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jul 28, 2010, at 11:59 AM

rr3yv0

You ask where I "get my moral grounds." lol...get real dude.

My personal moral preferances are not up for debate mate. General philosphies are up for debate...but not my personal moral preferences. Nor are they based on mythology, but they are based to a large degree upon those secular, moral foundations as taught by such people as socrates, aristotle, Plato, Gandi, and Dr. King.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Jul 28, 2010, at 7:32 AM

rr3yv0

No, expert opinion is not empty opinion mate.

All forcasts and analysis that I do are backed up by factual statistics and mathmatics...specfically econometrics. In addition, I am well versed in all the major economic theories and have a good professional understanding of them and their application.

In addition, I don't know of any other professional that would accept most the sources you cite as being qualified nor would most of your citations be acceptable at an academic instutution..

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Jul 28, 2010, at 7:19 AM

News where do you get your moral grounds?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jul 28, 2010, at 7:15 AM

If We Were Really Who They Say We are, We Would All be Liberals

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/s...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jul 28, 2010, at 7:14 AM

rr3yv0

Afganistan is all of our war.

It was started and left unfinished by the Republicans...but we all suffer from it.

Sadly, yes, the Democrats inherited the wars the Republican started and failed to win...both of them.

I opposed both wars even before we invaded those 3rd World Countries...and I remain staunchly opposed to both based on moral grounds.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Jul 28, 2010, at 7:10 AM

Oh and news who is most people?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jul 28, 2010, at 7:09 AM

CAPITALISM IS BOSS!!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jul 28, 2010, at 7:05 AM

News experts that are truly professional can stand on their own expertise without attacking another ones credibility. Attacking someones credibility only depletes your own. As a professional economist you say you only have an opinion about what may work you know...empty as it may be. Who has the credibility problem here?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jul 28, 2010, at 7:03 AM

rr3yv0

Yes...i am an expert in economics...that is what I do...its what my education was all about mate. My opinion in economics IS expert opinion. Its my field.

Oh and by the way...Rush again??? lol lol lol...dude...Rush has no credibility and I think most peole agree with that. His opinion is the opinion of a drug addict becaue that is what he is...as well as a hypocrite.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Jul 28, 2010, at 6:58 AM

If I Could Change One Thing...

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/s...

Why the Left Hates Conservatives

http://article.nationalreview.com/438670...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jul 28, 2010, at 6:43 AM

WikiLeaks Truth: Afghanistan is Democrats' War and They Want Out

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/s...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jul 28, 2010, at 6:35 AM

Liberal Policies, Not Capitalism, Caused This Economic Condition

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/s...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jul 28, 2010, at 6:33 AM

So news I am supposed to take your opinion about the economy without a success story as something that will work and you want to play the credibility card again. Have you led a stellar life that has no skeletons in the closet? You said yourself it was only your opinion...empty as it may be. Easy to argue someone's credibility kind of like your opinion.

CAPITALISM IS BOSS!!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jul 28, 2010, at 6:05 AM

"Leaked files indicate U.S. pays Afghan media to run friendly stories"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/20100727/w...

So our hard-earned tax-dollars are now being used to pay for war propaganda.

STOP THE WARS NOW!!! BRING OUR TROOPS HOME WHERE THEY BELONG!!

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Jul 28, 2010, at 3:52 AM

OKR

In addition to that, Seymour Hersh reported last May that his sources inside the U.S. Army had reported that U.S. Troops are executing POWs frequently almost as a standard practice.

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0512/hersh-b...

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info...

American Empire building is directly opposite to the foundational belief in Democracy and liberty that spurred on our Founding Fathers to fight for our independence.

EMPIRE BUILDING IS ANTI-AMERICAN!!

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Jul 28, 2010, at 3:30 AM

U.S. is using death squads to track down, and assassinate folks in Afghanistan without trial, without hearing. I believe the Nazis did that in France. We should not sink to their level. Practically speaking it sabotages efforts to win hearts, and minds. Oh yeah, that was going to be a big part of our new strategy.http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2010/7/26/65144/0200

STOP THE WAR

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jul 28, 2010, at 1:01 AM

rr3yv0

Yes capitalism is a failure.

In a successful economy all the members of that society benefit from that economy.

Unfortunately for us, millions of Americans live below the poverty rate. Any economic system that benefits only some but fails millions of other members of that society is a failed economic system.

In additon, your explanation falls way short of explaining the continual "boom to bust" our economy suffers under capitalism.

This is not the first recession/depression we have experienced. In fact, our economy experiences a "bust" every 5 to 6 years -- especially when the government is utilizing conservative, neoclassical economic policies.

Our economy in the USA is in the worst condition it has been in since the last Great Depression and no Bush apologist can change that with his "everything is ok in our economy" statements.

The fact is our economy experienced a major collapse under the Republican "leadership" in the White House in 2007 - 2008 which continues to this day. The very worst thing we could do would be to return to the same neoclassical economic policies of the conservatives that brought on this new Great Depression in the first place.

Everything is not "ok" rr3yv0, and you may even be the next to find yourself out of work and desperately seeking a new job where very few jobs exist. You may not think the economy is "ok" when that happens mate.

ALSO rr3yv0, you are quoting Rush? lol lol lol...the guy has 0 credibility. I don't take my advice from drug addicts mate.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jul 27, 2010, at 11:01 PM

Ruling Class Libs Live the Way They Don't Want to Let You Live

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/s...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Jul 27, 2010, at 9:46 PM

"Capitalism didn't fail. Central Planning with subprime mortgages and their demand to be implemented under fear of federal investigation is what led to the meltdown." -Rush

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Jul 27, 2010, at 9:38 PM

News and Nanadot I agree that a counselor has to follow the ACA Code of Ehtics but a person should not be discriminated against in the classroom. The Code of Ethics states that a counselor is entitled to their own beliefs as long their beliefs don't interfere with their counseling. As a professional you would be absolutely right but I don't think she was actually counseling anyone in the classroom if she was the University is right.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Jul 27, 2010, at 9:33 PM

Funny how they pony up only after they are caught.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/07/...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Jul 27, 2010, at 9:05 PM

So news you are saying a Christian University has lower standards? How ironic!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Jul 27, 2010, at 9:03 PM

rr3yv0

Regarding your comment on the Fox News "report," about the graduate student who, according to the University, has violated their minimum ethics requirements.

Your opinion of this matter seems to be based in your full acceptance of the plaintiff's claims which as yet are complety unproven.

The University on the other hand says she violated ethical standards in the particular field she is in. Ethics violations are a very serious matter in both academics and professional standards. If she cannot conduct herself by the minimum ethical standards set by the University then she needs to move on to a school with lower standards such as a private Christian university. However, she should bare in mind that continued ethics violations in the workplace will likely lead to her professional license being revoked and she may find herself being sued for malpractice and other torts as well.

Ethics matter to most people and We the People demand that our professionals abide by the standards society sets or accept the consequences for failing in their fiduciary duty to their clients. Weeding out those graduate students who refuse to comply with minimum academic and professional ethics requirments is justified.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jul 27, 2010, at 7:31 PM

"Hans Blix, the Swedish diplomat who led the effort to find Iraq's suspected nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons programs before the 2003 invasion, has criticized the United States and Britain for launching the war in the absence of evidence."

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe...

SENATORS...END THE WARS!! CUT THE FUNDING OF THESE IMMORAL ACTS OF EMPIRE BUILDING!!

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jul 27, 2010, at 6:17 PM

So now we have to hold to certain opinions as dictated by our liberal education institutions or we will be sued and expelled.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/07/27/geo...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Jul 27, 2010, at 6:00 PM

Why Vietnam Truth Matters

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?i...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Jul 27, 2010, at 5:53 PM

Obama The Muslim

Muslims only pretend to trust and be friends with non-Muslims; in the deepest of their Muslim hearts they have been taught that all non-Muslims are infidels.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?i...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Jul 27, 2010, at 5:46 PM

Obama announced today that the war documents were old news.

Arizona at war with the drug cartels inside our own borders. So lets sue Arizona.

Iran accusing us today for preparing to attack in the middle east.

North Korea accusing us of going to war.

Man I thought Obama had already apologized to everyone. I guess we need to send him on another apology tour.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Jul 27, 2010, at 5:38 PM

"Kucinich: 92,000 reasons to end the wars, pick one"

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0727/lawmake...

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jul 27, 2010, at 4:56 PM

What about campaign contributions from unions? Would that be any different than corporation funding?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Jul 27, 2010, at 10:56 AM

CORRECTIOB:

The typos in my previous comment make it difficult to understand so here is the correction:

I never stated anything as a fact mate. I expressed my disatisfaction with the many years of capitalist politicians breaking our laws and I would suggest that perhaps a socialist candidate may not accept campaign funding from corporations or any capitalists thus reducing the chances of corruption.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jul 27, 2010, at 7:59 AM

rr3yv0

I never state any facts or theories...i just expressed my personal opinion -- empty at that may be.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jul 27, 2010, at 6:10 AM

The Facts about the Bush tax cuts.

Government intrusion led to the collapse.

http://www.redstate.com/erick/2010/07/27...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Jul 27, 2010, at 4:57 AM

Oh back to the argument don't make me do your work for you. I simply asked questions to back up your theory that you state as fact but I see you can't answer and that's ok news I won'd think any less of you. Maybe I had you mistaken for someone else on here that had all of the answers. Sorry! I don't know an American socialist politician.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Jul 27, 2010, at 4:49 AM

You answered exactly as expected news. Thanks.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Jul 27, 2010, at 4:36 AM

OKR,

You may be interested in this. Its a progressive movement that is growing like gangbusters.

NETROOTS is a progressive movement designed to get our Nation back on track.

Obviously, President Obama, Senator Reed, and Speaker Pelosi have ignored the will of the majority and governed from right of center. I believe this will cost him the election and will probably cost the Democrats the Congress by the time the dust settles in 2012.

the NETROOT MOVEMENT is designed to get the voice of the silent majority heard...the same folks that thought they were electing a progressive government when they voted for Obama.

Check it out at:

http://www.netrootsnation.org/

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jul 27, 2010, at 3:04 AM

I believe that my raison d'etre on this blog is becoming opposition to the two wars in which we are currently entangled, especially the longest war in our nation's history, our Afghan adventure.

My primary reason is that I am convinced that in Afghanistan we are engaged in a debacle that will result in a conclusion that will make our Viet Nam experience seem a comparitive success. Secondarily, unlike many of the topics discussed here there is no doubt in my mind that public opinion is already moving toward a strong desire to extricate ourselves from that mess. We will be coming home, we will not have a victory no matter how twisted, and lamely that word is stretched by those who pontify about such things. So it seems sooner is better than leaving with the same (or worse) results later.

Therefore it is my duty to my country, and to those serving on that foreign ground, to do what I can, to speak out in a manner that is informative, and that may in some small way hasten the safe return home of our troops at the earliest opportunity.

One of the many reasons that we will not win a war in Afghanistan is because we fail to fully understand, and respect the immutable durability of their tribal enclaves. It is a system that has endured for thousands of years, and has thrown out every one of the many foreign interventionists that attempted to gain controlling influence. It is their system.

All that we have done is established a puppet in some of the northern enclaves, and a very weak puppet at that. He knows, and our leaders know that central rule is not the way of that country, and that it can not be forced upon them. Even the Taliban who supposedly (if you listen to our government, and their stenographers the mainstream media) "ruled" the country before we invaded, had only limited influence in the northern parts of the country.

That is why those in the puppet Karzai administration we have established are stashing our aid dollars outside the country by the millions. They know it will not last, and they want their futures intact when they take that last plane out of Kabul.

There are many other reasons why this war will fail. Our military leaders, and "boots on the ground" have been handed an impossible task. It is not fair to them, and it is not fair to our citizenry to compel our support of this folly.

I will address the other reasons, at other times.

STOP THE WAR

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Jul 27, 2010, at 1:07 AM

rr3yv0

I don't recall you asking me for success story of any kind nor do I even understand your question.

However, there are quite a number of successful socialist nations...starting with China which has probably the most successful economy in the World today...also you may want to look at the success you will see in Sweden, Denmark, and Norway.

But anyway...I was focused on our Country and the long history of poltical corruption wrought by captitalism in our Nation.

You might want to note that I am not the "answer man." I don't respond to every question poised to me, and I won't speculate as you have asked me to do. Perhaps you can state your thesis and defend it rather than asking me questions. If I think you are in error, I will let you know...but please don't ask me to make your arguments for you.

Oh and by the way...did you manage to find even one case of an American Socialist Congressman, Senator, or President who was convicted of corruption yet?

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jul 26, 2010, at 10:15 PM

rr3yv0

You say your God(s) exist...yeah I don't know a single person he has spoken directly with nor do I know anyone who has ever met Him. In fact, I don't know of even one piece of testable, observable, varifiable, repeatable evidence that supports your claim.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jul 26, 2010, at 10:04 PM

No you didn't give me an answer I asked for an example of a success story that is still forthcoming. Did you cut and past the post about Raw Story we have heard this before I think the same about Raw Story that you thing about Fox News. Maybe I am asking questions you can't answer I just thought maybe you a success story to tout as an example we need to follow.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Jul 26, 2010, at 9:46 PM

rr3yv0

I answered you. You may not like the answer...but you did get an answer.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jul 26, 2010, at 9:37 PM

rr3yv0

I don't think you know much about Raw Story mate.

Raw Story is an online news service no different than the Associated Press or the United Press. They report on news stories and they always link to the original source of the information...which in this case are the military documents you will find posted in their original form on Wikileaks. They certainly do qualify their reporting of the news and they do so accurately.

In addition, Raw Story is a well respected news service and holds a seat in the White House press corp.

So specifically why is it you think Raw Story is not a qualified news source?...and please be specific.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jul 26, 2010, at 9:36 PM

You know news if you don't have the answer just say so and I am good with that.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Jul 26, 2010, at 9:35 PM

News I never said God would save us from American imperialism. I figure since you believe we need a form of socialist government you would have a success story to back your claim that it would be what we need. I don't have a socialist success story. As far as I know this may only be a theory. Your belief in God will not have any bearing on the outcome of his plan for this world. You know the God that you deny exist but you always have to deny his existence.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Jul 26, 2010, at 9:31 PM

Also...asking me to speculate on whether or not a non-existant socialist politician or a non-existance majority of socialist politicans would be corrupt is absurd.

I prefer to stick with reality and the reality is all but perhaps one or two of our Congressional representitives are capitialists, and the corruption that economic system encourages is rampant in our Government.

Do you want me to list all the Democrats and Republicans that have been convicted of corruption while in service in Congress? Its a long list but I will be happy to post it if you want, but we both know many many Democrats and Republicans have been convicted of political corruption...so is that list really necessary?

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jul 26, 2010, at 9:21 PM

rr3yv0

You have claimed many times that you believe in the Christian Gods or at least one of them.

Yeah you believe in some magical beings that live in the sky, and now you want to assure us that this figment of your imagination is going to save us from the effects of American imperialism.

Maybe that imaginary, magical being or beings will save us from ourselves...but I would not depend on that.

Ending imperialism takes action on the part of the People...not whimsical, imaginary, Middle-Eastern Gods.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jul 26, 2010, at 9:15 PM

"Review of leaked docs finds

no danger to security, troops"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/

The Government can't stop the truth of the crimes some of our troops and Generals are committing in Afghanistan.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jul 26, 2010, at 9:05 PM

News you really miss the point of the argument. I never said anything about a magical bearded old man you did. I never said the plan was American imperialism you did. I never said anything about imaginary magical beings you did. As for socialism I never said anyone has been convicted of Government corruption don't we have a lot of corruption now and no one is being convicted? I simply was asking the question would a socialist government be without corruption. You are making a lot of assumptions about what my opinion seems to be.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Jul 26, 2010, at 9:02 PM

News I did not check Wikileaks because I was looking at your Raw Story article for the evidence. Didn't want to do your work for ya mate. As for a Republican war there were a lot of Democrats the voted for the resolution and then acted like they didn't know what they were voting for. Kind of like health care and finance reform we need to pass it so we can find out what's in it. You know all those good things we can't wait to unfold so we can live in our eutopia world with free health care, no more evil rich people, we will only work for the good of society, we can all get along and be friends, we won't own anything we will just share, we will only play games for fun there will not be winners or losers, we will all be C students so everybody will be achievers there will be no losers. Sounds pretty ridiculous doesn't it.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Jul 26, 2010, at 8:51 PM

rr3yv0

In your comment you say, "I believe it [ we will fall from being the #1 world power] is all in God's plan and we each have a part."

Are you asking the American People to support American imperialism because you think American Imperialism is the plan of some magical, invisable bearded old man who lives in the sky someplace?

Mate get serious. Our Nation is in big trouble as a result of capitalist American imperialism

Imaginary magical beings are not going to save us. We need to save ourselves from American imperialism. Stand up against warmongering. Stand up against American imperialism. Demand our politicians end all forign wars and bring our troops home where they belong...or live with the consequences of failing to stand up for what is right.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jul 26, 2010, at 8:25 PM

rr3yv0

Please post just one incident of an American socialist politician convicted for Government corruption.

I bet you can't cite even one example of an American socialist politician being convicted of corruption while he or she held public office.

Capitalism is a complete failure and the long history of corruption of capitalists and the Republican and Democrat Parties as well as the many depressions and recessions are proof of that.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jul 26, 2010, at 7:57 PM

Nanadot I wish I was as well read on history as you but I do agree we will fall from being the #1 world power. I look at it like death we know its coming but lets not be in a hurry to get there. I believe it is all in God's plan and we each have a part.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Jul 26, 2010, at 7:56 PM

rr3yv0

Well Wikileaks has posted all the official United States Military documents..so who says so?... The US military says so...but they were hoping you would not find out.

Of course you have stated before that you support the Republican started wars and apparently the war crimes that came with them...so I guess in your case the US Military/Industrial complex has succeeded because the only thing keeping you from looking at the United States offcial military documents is you desire to stay in the dark. However, the documents are there and that is a fact whether you look at them or not.

http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Afghan_War_Dia...

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jul 26, 2010, at 7:49 PM

So Nanadot how is socialist corruption any different?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Jul 26, 2010, at 6:58 PM

You cannot prove capitalism has failed without being traced to government interference.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Jul 26, 2010, at 6:22 PM

Where's the evidence news? Wikileaks says?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Jul 26, 2010, at 6:19 PM

Is Socialism not corrupt?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Jul 26, 2010, at 6:11 PM

rr3yv0

"WikiLeaks says evidence of war crimes in documents"

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0726/wikilea...

What about the collective responsibility of the Republicans and Democrats? What ever happened to taking responsibility for the high crimes and misdemeanors committed by these 2 capitalist parties? I haven't seen any of them accepting responsibility for the war crimes they committed or for causing our economy to become a major depresssion. I have not seen any Republican resign over the torture the forced on prisoners. Which Republican resigned when the truth that they were spying on Americans without a warrant? I haven't heard the appologies and where are the resignations?

I do hear from Bush appologists attempting to justify the crimes of his administration.

Capitalism is a failed and corrupt system...I say we throw all the capitalists out and take a step in the right direction and fill those Congressional seats with good, responsible socialists.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jul 26, 2010, at 5:45 PM

T-Shirts We Would Like to See

http://www.foxnews.com/slideshow/opinion...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Jul 26, 2010, at 5:41 PM

What about personal responsibility news?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Jul 26, 2010, at 7:22 AM

House Democrats top 100 broken promises. This is just 100 of them folks.

http://republicanleader.house.gov/broken...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Jul 25, 2010, at 6:18 PM

Democratic entitlements have put us in the poor house. Taking from producers to give to non-producers thats the problem.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Jul 25, 2010, at 6:14 PM

Whatever news keep ridin that horse. Giddy up! Let's offer an opinion or statement of our own to counter their's. Hmmmmmmmmmm never thought of that!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Jul 25, 2010, at 6:12 PM

"Policing Main Street:

The poor also need protection."

http://www.newsweek.com/2010/07/25/polic...

Its time the Republican/Teabaggers end their political and economic war on the poor!!

...another reason why THE PARTY OF NO! HAS GOT TO GO!!

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jul 25, 2010, at 5:58 PM

rr3yv0

Asking a commenter for his or her source of information upon which he or she basis their statement is not policing...its verification.

With out it one's statement is empty and meaningless because it has no apparent basis in fact or any visable foundation.

In fact, citing good qualified sources that withstand scrutiny helps to provide the commenter with a powerful tool for proving his thesis statement...but with out that, his thesis remains nothing more than a guess.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jul 25, 2010, at 9:04 AM

I agree with you news and I would venture to say that a lot of the posters on here have some higher education but there are some that may not. But I think Eric does a fine job policing the Speak Out columns. So I will leave that to him. As for asking a question recently I didn't ask one. Made you look though.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Jul 25, 2010, at 8:38 AM

rr3yv0

Well granted this is an informal forum but the same principles that motivate universities to insist on only qualified citations still apply here.

When you make a statement...and especially when you state it as a fact..and you fail to tell anyone where you got that tidbit of information, it has a tendency to make folks think you just made it up or base it on a very shakey foundation.

As to your question...I never saw it.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jul 25, 2010, at 6:47 AM

News you don't have to assure me of anything. Last I checked this is not a University nor is it an academic or professional format. Are you that over educated? Oh and news you still can't answer my question?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Jul 25, 2010, at 3:56 AM

rr3yv0

I can safely assure you all accredited universities and all legitimate publishers require that a person making a claim bare the burdon of qualifying that statement. No University in the World would allow a person to get a passing grade of any kind on a paper or essay that has no qualified citations. This is a bare minimum academic and professional standard World-wide including the United States.

Nothing you have said will change that.

If you make a statement then you are responsible for citing your sources and those sources will be examined for accuracy, timing, and qualification.

Nothing you have said will change that.

If you make an empty, meaningless statement, you will be called on that.

Nothing you have said will change that.

In the end its society that sets these rules, rr3yv0, not you or me. If you or me cannot qualify a statement we make then we need to be prepared for the readers calliing us on it.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Jul 24, 2010, at 8:09 PM

Rangel v. Russert: 'You know it's a dumb question'

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2010...

And people keep voting for this arrogance. Amazing!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Jul 24, 2010, at 12:08 PM

"Some guy designed the cap that BP used on that busted well. He's a backyard garage engineer, an average American. He's a fixer, a plumber who wants to remain anonymous. There are all kinds of people in this country who fix things, but none of the people in Washington ruling class can fix anything." -Rush

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Jul 24, 2010, at 12:01 PM

A question about union power in elections.

http://liveshots.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/...

The president has stooped to partisan attacks because he can't sell his own plan at a time when millions of people want to know what happened to the jobs Obama promised to create. "The fact is that Washington Democrats' policies have created uncertainty that has undermined our economy, shaken the confidence of the nation and cost millions of American jobs." "Our nation needs leadership, not excuses." "The American people know we can't tax and spend and bail our way back to a growing economy,"

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/07/...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Jul 24, 2010, at 11:53 AM

News this burden of proof horse you are riding is dead and you have killed it. Seems when you don't have a responding argument you try to belittle the other. If you can't or don't want to respond then don't that is what you do when I ask you a question that you obviously can't answer. Seems xray was simply making a statement about what to reference for more facts on the subject, it would be up to you to do if you choose to. I guess if a link was provided you could have said it was unqualified or not a credible source. Your same old argument news. Just stating facts mate.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Jul 24, 2010, at 7:06 AM

John Henry,

So you're upset because we didn't kill enough people in Irag and Afghanistan?.

I do agree with you about illegals though, but you have to admit that has been going on long before Obama took office. I'm not sure you can blame him for it.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Jul 24, 2010, at 6:31 AM

mrxray

Please don't ask me, the reader, to do your work for you.

The accepted academic and professional standard World-wide and Nationally is that the burdon of qualifying a statement falls upon the person making the statement.

After all...you got your information somewhere...I don't think you were born knowing it.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Jul 24, 2010, at 5:30 AM

LOL Back to my "NAACP are racist" statment.

Google "Kenneth Gladney not black enough" and you will find stories with video of a NAACP meeting in St Louis I believe stating this very thing about Kenneth gladney, the guy beat up by SEIU (Union) thugs in St Louis.

Just another feather in the racist cap of the NAACP

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jul 24, 2010, at 4:20 AM

News... I dont need to provide you with a link you can google it easily as I can.

I think the concept of Unions was a great thing back in the day as it forced businesses to consider the needs and working conditions of their employees. However, in today's world they have evolved into entities that are corrupt, attempt to coerce intimidate their members to vote the way their leadership wants and often have agenda that have nothing to do with the specific business of its members... But worse the Unions today price their selves out of work and harm their business which harms their members, all while the Union bosses get their own pockets padded.

The contract that you spoke of is not a contract that has the best interests of the members at heart but the best interests of the union bosses.

I view most Unions to be just as bad now as the employers were back when Unions started.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jul 24, 2010, at 4:03 AM

Good Grief... how many years has the charges been being investigate against Rangle? I thought Pelosi was not going to put up with ethics violations...

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jul 24, 2010, at 3:57 AM

We need a new deal like we need another inexperienced community organizer as POTUS.

There was a interesting fact put out there... of Obama's admin and czars, he has only 5% that are actual tried and tested business owners within the private business sector and the rest are academia nut jobs and people who have done nothing but function in government jobs and activists.

Obama is NOTHING but a theorist and has no real world experience in the successful application of his theories. In economics, the REAL world dictates that you cannot have an economy that runs on ONE theory strictly. His concepts of spreading the wealth are so naive because he has not had to deal with the running of a business that has employes that depend on him making good business decisions and thinks that some academic theory can easily take the place of reality.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jul 24, 2010, at 3:56 AM

News those estimates are subject to a high degree of uncertainty. Can you recall anything the government got involved in and the price came down? Given the track record of our government we can't accept any of this as fact.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Jul 23, 2010, at 8:15 PM

wtf what is Obama doing to this country?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Jul 23, 2010, at 8:05 PM

"CBO: Public option could save $68 billion by 2020"

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-kl...

http://cboblog.cbo.gov/?p=1183

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jul 23, 2010, at 5:56 PM

John Henry,

How much have we spent on Iraq and Afghanistan?

Because that IS Bush's fault. No matter what you think of Obama, it doesn't negate on iota what Bush and Cheney did to this country. That, my friend, is fact.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Jul 23, 2010, at 3:25 PM

Wow.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jul 21, 2010, at 7:58 PM

The drug cartels make 60% of there income off pot.

Just think how we could screw them over if we finally wised up and decriminalized it. We could cut there income by better than half and then use our limited resources to really go after them.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Jul 21, 2010, at 9:50 AM

"Oliver Stone: 'Gulf of Mexico oil spill shows that US should nationalize its energy industry'"

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0720/oliver-...

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jul 20, 2010, at 7:34 PM

Oklahoma Reader

Perhaps more people read this forum than actually comment in this forum. I know of 2 people that read this forum religiously and yet never comment here. Don't worry mate...your message meets more minds than you realize.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jul 20, 2010, at 3:51 AM

rr3yv0

Well since you asked...I don't think any of the capitalists of either major party have any idea of what they are doing. Further, I think a lot of folks back home are in for a real rough road either way.

However, to go backwards and put into place the same failed, Republican, neoclassical economic policies that brought on this great depression in the first place, would almost ensure a complete economic meltdown the likes of which has never been seen in the United States before.

What we need is a New Deal.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jul 20, 2010, at 1:21 AM

Thank you rr3.

As I said from this point forward I may post commentary on various political subjects. I will attempt to just state my point of view in a manner that can withstand rigorous review. I will not repost on the same subject just because someone else states a different point of view. In other words no more endless point/counterpoint.

I am going to try to look at this political blog as if it is a newspaper op-ed section. A good one. One that affords the reader a legitimate opportunity to read the views of commentators of various political persuasions.

We were banished to this little corner because the people of the local online community found our constant quarrel tiresome. Now our goal of spreading what each of us considers vital truth reachs no one. We did it to ourselves.

Perhaps, only perhaps, we can regain the local community's interest in what we each have to say.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Jul 20, 2010, at 12:14 AM

It's funny when the Democrats took control in 2006 they started saying the economy was bad when unemployment was at 4.9% and the Dow was at an all time high. What would they be saying about the economy now if Bush was still president? What are they saying with Obama in charge?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Jul 19, 2010, at 11:40 PM

Obama's decision to send troops to the border was only made after meeting with the Republican Caucus before they attempted to force a vote on it. I don't think he really wanted to do it.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37340747

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Jul 19, 2010, at 11:27 PM

"National Guard to head to border states Aug. 1:

1,200 troops in Southwest to crack down on drugs, illegal immigrants"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38310914/ns/...

It looks like the Federal Government under President Obama is on top of it, rr3yv0.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jul 19, 2010, at 8:47 PM

rr3yv0

Oh its not just Bush that did the damage mate, Most of those 8 years of Bush incompetance, and potentially criminal behvior, were accompanied by the Republican majority in both the House and Senate and the Republican majority on the Supreme Court.

Now some folks are asking us to consider putting these same Republicans back into power. Well sounds to me like that would be jumping from the pan to the fire...the same fire we just jumped out of.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jul 19, 2010, at 8:29 PM

News that may be good information but I am worried about where we are at today and the fact that the Democrats think we will be dumb enough to keep blaming Bush.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Jul 19, 2010, at 6:30 PM

We think about border states having problems but State Troopers make $50,000 drug bust in Saline County. The vehicle driven by 2 ILLEGAL ALIENS. They could get 10-30 years in prison that we will have to pay for. Sad that our federal government won't do their job on immigration.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Jul 19, 2010, at 6:25 PM

"The Bush Deficit Bamboozle"

Paul Krugman

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/07...

Apparently the Republican Party thinks the voters are stupid.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jul 19, 2010, at 6:22 PM

okr I want to thank you for your recent post and totally agree with you. It was unbiased, not argumentative and not insulting just what I picture this Speak Out column should be. We should have an atmosphere to promote different ideas to be kicked around and then we either agree or agree to disagree and go home. What I did started as an experiment for myself only to react to other posters the same way they reacted to my post and to see what the reaction would be. The results were much different then I thought they would be I figured you and others would just get meaner and more insulting as much as Eric allows us to be but I was wrong the result was that you didn't like to play that game. Well I don't either but every time I would post anything someone would attack it as unqualified, not credible information or source, or I just didn't know what I was talking about and I was losing credibility. Don't get me wrong I was as guilty as anyone but when I stepped it up a notch you and others got tired of it. I'm all for kicking ideas and opinions around but when I tried to be nice that didn't work. I don't know if this is even possible on this kind of platform but it was just a thought.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Jul 19, 2010, at 5:07 PM

mrxray

I appreciate your comments. As astute as you are, I am confident you have read, seen, or heard what Tea Party 365 has accomplished and others comment on the topic.

Let's move forward to 10-2-10---March of Washington for JOBS.

A few things you are misinformed, however, I am not going to spend the time debating these items. However, I would like to clear up one thing and that is the SEIU THUGS beating up this guy in St. Louis and Mr. Carnahan's Town Hall. The SEIU person was BERATEN, not the Tea Party person (at that time the guy was not claiming Tea PArty affilliation, may not be doing it now) The video is/was on You Tube. And, the guy neatened is a friend of mind, Rev. Elston McCown. Rev. McCown suffered a broken arm due to the atatck.

-- Posted by CWilli on Mon, Jul 19, 2010, at 12:47 PM

mrxray

The burdon of proof falls upon the one making the claim...in you last comment that would be you.

As far as unions go...I support them all. Anything short of a union means no contract for the worker and the doctrine of "emplpoyment at will" becomes the standard. This means management can fire a worker for good reason, bad reason, or no reason at all and the worker has no recourse.

Yeah...I support unions.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jul 19, 2010, at 7:13 AM

I am glad to see the UFCW (United Food and Commercial Workers Union) working hard with the Union dues collected from their people... working to get Pot legalized so that they will have more people to suck union dues from.... the pot growers..

Already in California, some of the pot growers unionized... already providing some instant inflation for those smoking pot "legally"

You can look up that for your self.

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Jul 19, 2010, at 12:25 AM

LOL You can take or leave the source that the article comes from but read the facts within the story regaring how the TEACHERS Unions are hypocritical and...for a lack of a better term... messed up.

How can ANY teacher support their union when it behaves like this and involves itself with something that is totally out of the function of a grop that is "supposed to be" looking out for the interests of teachers and our kids?

http://biggovernment.com/kolson/2010/07/...

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Jul 19, 2010, at 12:16 AM

NanaDot I have to agree with you the Speak Out political blog has gotten extremely boring. I doubt that a dozen folk even read it. They are tired of the same old foursome fooling with the same old question over, and over.

I refuse to pay any further attention to those who try to trick me into defending President Obama when I have stated over, and over that I did not vote for him in the primary, and that I am thus far very disappointed by his predilection for timidity, caution, half measures, and giving ground to those who refuse any compromise.

I'm done unless I feel the call to pen a political essay off the topics that are repeated over, and over.

It is no small irony that we few that fight among ourselves have likely driven off any readers on whom any one of us had any chance of making an impression.

It is an absurdity that we remain here fussing among ourselves with absolutely no chance of any one of us influencing the position, or thoughts of any other of us.

Perhaps that old phrase that we each left, or right, repeat in accusation from time to time, the one about repeating the same things over, and over, but expecting different results is insanity, fits the each of us far too well.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jul 18, 2010, at 11:43 PM

News I have to give you credit your the only one with the kahoneys to keep posting. All your friends left you hanging mate. Oh and by the way last I checked this Speak Out column is not an "accredited university that I am aware of".

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Jul 18, 2010, at 11:02 PM

News like Raw Story and MSNBC are credible they are just telling you what you want to hear mate. News you get around to posting something reliable let know heh mate.

Look news I used one of your quotes and just changed one word and it reads much better "Its interesting how the left-wing seems to try to twist anything they can about civil rights support groups into something that really mirrors behavior that would be more characteristic of the left-wingers themselves than any other group of people". Just fits your post and sources don't you think mate.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Jul 18, 2010, at 10:56 PM

"Sen. John Cornyn (R-TX) unable to name one GOP fiscal policy change since Bush era"

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0718/cornyn-...

Do we really want these guys back in control?

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jul 18, 2010, at 8:54 PM

Hey xray...

...and this happened...

"Tea Party federation expels group over racial writing:

Tea Party Express refuses to rebuke spokesman Mark Williams"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38299783/ns/...

Also...

...regarding qualified sources. I don't decide the ruls on that mate...society set those rules long before I came along. Comments by non-eperts on neocon blog sites are not acceptable at any accredited university that I am aware of.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jul 18, 2010, at 8:03 PM

Wow that was longer than I thought...

The short point is that the NAACP or any other nation-wide politically organizing group all have their fringe groups that take their ideals to the extreme and then try to attach them to the moderate group. Most groups are not doing enough to toss out, point out, condemn those extremist factions and that includes the NAACP, la Raza, and especially the UNIONS and even the AFT.

So to condemn specifically the Tea Party and not your OWN ogranization is hypocritical and pointless and only shows that you have moved into a political party instead of a civil rights party.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Jul 18, 2010, at 7:54 PM

Cwilli:

I cannot stand racism nor do I think that any group should condone it and any and all groups of people organizing towards some political goal should never accept it as part of their activities. That means ANY group even the NAACP.

After searching for the text of the speech all I can find is bits and pieces and even according to Jealous he gave a 42 page speech and only a half page was regaring the Tea party. Here is a portion of his speech.

"We take no issue with the Tea Party movement. We believe in freedom of assembly and people raising their voices in a democracy. What we take issue with is the Tea Party's continued tolerance for bigotry and bigoted statements. The time has come for them to accept the responsibility that comes with influence and make clear there is no place for racism & anti-Semitism, homophobia and other forms of bigotry in their movement," stated NAACP President and CEO Benjamin Todd Jealous. "Last night after my speech, I was approached by an African American member of the NAACP and the Tea Party. He thanked me for speaking out because he has begun to feel uncomfortable in the Tea Party and wants to ensure there will always be space for him in both organizations. I assured him there will always be a place for him in the NAACP. Dick Armey and the leadership of the Tea Party need to do the same."

NOTE: I love the unsubstantiated anecdote about the African American member of the NAACP and Tea Party. Politicians always LOVE these type of stories to try to prove a point but usually when they are investigated they are distortions or made up.

There was no "some" or "part of" comments. I found the "damage control" comments from Mr. Jealous amusing, but sad,the days after his Speech.

Even IF he really was directing his comments regarding racism to SOME of or toward a FEW of in the tea party, or any other organization, is that not politicizing instead of working toward a common goal of ridding our nation of racism? Is that not standing on the 'pulpit' trying to take the speck out of some other person's eye while you are having to hold up a branch in your own eye? I mean, the people tied to NAACP, like Sharpton and Jesse Jackson and other so called leaders that constantly race bait and utilize VERY devisive tactics and words are no different that the fringe 'some' that you might see at a tea party rally.

In fact since the afore mentioned Black leaders are public and nation-wide leaders with politicaland monetary backing, they are WORSE than some stupid red neck or uneducated person that shows up at a rally with a home made sign.

I compare this to the radical Muslims...I think that the moderate Muslims, who claim they do not support radical terrorist Muslims, should stand up PUBLICALLY every chance they get to speak out against the radicalism and the terrorism conducted in the name of their religion. So to should the members of NAACP... they should speak out against the radical, devisive members of their organization and not allow them to continue with their behavior that is not helping to repair racism in this nation. So to should the leaders of the Tea Party, when they see a sign that is inappropriate then they should demand the removal of that person and that sign from inside their activities and require that those people be removed to the outside where they have the freedom to express their own views, just not with the tea party.

The problem, not counting how I feel about Obama's political and social agenda, that I have with Obama is that he is not doing anything to help the racism issue and is in fact doing more to harm it in our nation..... examples are the Beer Gate, his commenting on a situation without knowing the facts, his allowing the DOJ to NOT punish the New Black Panters for their actions at polling places, for using SEIU THUGS to beat up a black guy at a anti-Obama rally and/or then not forcing the DOJ to prosecute those individuals.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Jul 18, 2010, at 7:50 PM

LOL RR3....

again, the people that think like nanadot and news are so unbending in their preconceived ideas that they cannot stand anyone who differs with them in opinions. If you dont agree with them they call you names, attempt to use subtle insults or just plain old call you wrong and attempt to try and claim YOUR sources are wrong or biased while theirs are unbiased and right.

Why do you think that I dont bother to post sources most times?

Some people would not be happy unless ALL people thought exactly like they do and even then I would imagine they would not be happy.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Jul 18, 2010, at 7:20 PM

When Congress required most Americans to obtain health insurance or pay a penalty, Democrats denied that they were creating a new tax. But in court, the Obama administration and its allies now defend the requirement as an exercise of the government's "power to lay and collect taxes."

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Jul 18, 2010, at 7:16 PM

CWilli

Thank you for your informative comment.

Its interesting how the right-wing seems to try to twist anything they can about civil rights support groups into something that really mirrors behavior that would be more characteristic of the right-wingers themselves than any other group of people.

I strongly support the important work of the NAACP. Its good to know that lighthouses of freedom like the NAACP are still out their fighting hard make our Nation a better place to live for all Americans.

Thank you again, CWilli, for the insight into the truth your provided.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jul 18, 2010, at 3:00 PM

cwilli I appreciate the information. Racism is one thing we can never do away with as long as it brings a response from the individual or a group. But I do agree we need to stand against it.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Jul 18, 2010, at 2:44 PM

rr3yv0

I was at the NAACP Convention when the Resolution relating to SOME members of the Tea Party has racist elements and THEY should be expelled and the leadership in the five TEA PARTYs should rebuke and expell these racists elements. The resolution was 1 of 90 resolutions passed at the convention. These resolutions will be RATIFIED by yhe NAACP Board of Directors in October.

The resolution came from the Kansas City Branch of the NAACP. At the NAACP Missouri State Conference of Branches meeting in April, per procedure, the State Conference approved the resolution and submitted to the Resolution Committee to the National COnvention.

The national media as chosen this resolution pertaining to the Tea Party to hang its hat on. Before the resolution was debated and subsequernly unaminously passed by the convention delegates on Tuesday July 13th, the national media was discussing this resolution (1 of 90 resolutions)

The main emphasis from the convention is 10-2-10. This is a march of Washington, D.C. for jobs on October 2, 2010. Committed to join with the NAACP march are AFT, Unions, LaRaza, and many other organizations and Americans. Will you join us on 10-2-10. More information coming soon.

-- Posted by CWilli on Sun, Jul 18, 2010, at 10:55 AM

Racism used to produce a response doesn't matter if it really happened. Racism is in the eye of the beholder just like hate speech.

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/s...

"The Tea Party movement is magnificent in its commitment and determination to hold candidates to what Republicanism and conservatism are supposed to be. They're supposed to be about a devotion to smaller government, lower taxes, and constitutional behavior. That is where the touchstones are. It has nothing to do with race, memo to the NAACP." -Mark

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Jul 18, 2010, at 5:34 AM

Again new Raw Story don't tell the whole story from your typical unreliable news source. Let's put people back to work instead of paying them not to work. I guess the Democrats never thought of that. Probably too many genius economist thinking unemployment works.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Jul 18, 2010, at 5:07 AM

"Obama rips GOP over blocking tax cuts for small business"

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0717/obama-r...

THE PARTY OF NO! HAS GOT TO GO!

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jul 18, 2010, at 3:27 AM

I'm not the only one that is tired of the hypocrisy of the liberals. I wish the liberals in Washington were as easy to shut-up.

http://angrywhitedude.com/?p=3954

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Jul 17, 2010, at 9:10 PM

Obama still won't claim responsibility for our financial mess and won't take any fiscal responsibility to curb spending amid record deficits.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100717/ts_n...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Jul 17, 2010, at 8:37 PM

Nanadot I guess you can take your ball and go home. I think I will too. Hmmpf!!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Jul 17, 2010, at 8:19 PM

news... I would have to say that there has been NOTHING done at any so called tea party rally or activity that compares with the HORRIBLE and RACIST and HATE filled speech of the idiot that claims his fame by being the leader of the new Black Panther HATE GROUP.

But again, Obama and his DOJ dept sides with the WRONG side of this issue and allows the DOJ to not prosecute to the fullest extent of EVERY law that was broken by this HATER and allowed the disruption of polling places by a person(s) with weapons standing at the polling door intimidating people as they walked in.

No one has said that there is not a few weirdos that attend those rallies with stupid signs but that is not the tea party or the republicans nor is that type of behavior or stuff sanctioned or encouraged by the people running those events... it is pure stupid reporting by the liberal Obama media propagand networks that are failing and you are failing worse by buying into it.

Wake up to the reality that there are radical stupid people on both sides of any issue. Heck OBama invited the Code Pink HATERS into the white house and ignore that they are stirring up things in palestine and here at home with TERRROST activities...

I find it sad that so many people cannot see the extent of their own bias

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jul 17, 2010, at 10:10 AM

Now Nanadot it seems ok when you beat on us? Doesn't it? You don't like this game come on now you liked it when you thought you were winning.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Jul 17, 2010, at 5:55 AM

News just go arrest Bush and put him in jail and I'll be all for it. You don't want to deal with the facts of the present and your boy Obama is not delivering the goods. He is the most liberal president we have had and you knew during his campaign he was lying but refused to listen. Now I don't think McCain would have been any better. Right now I wish we could be seeing what Hillary could of done.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Jul 17, 2010, at 5:52 AM

So news I see you finally got around to the race card. The liberal Democrats have always played the race card when their backs are against the wall. For the last 100 years they have proved to be the racist that they accuse their opponents of. Raw Story is not a credible conservative news source but you keep using it and treating it as gospel. Amen! We have the black panthers calling white people crackers. Is that racist? Did Raw Story call them racist? Did any of the reporters talk to anyone holding the signs to see if they were actually a Tea Party supporter? Then you got Jackson and Sharpton and what have they done to help stop racism? They have made millions because racism exist now why would they want it to go away? The liberals like racism because if it went away it would take one of the key players out of the game. Then news you wonder why I can't give you any credibility.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Jul 17, 2010, at 5:45 AM

xray

I remember when your boy Bush and the Republican Party had all 3 branches of Government. We lost a lot of our civil rights and our privacy rights under those folks.

You remember the Republican sponsered "Patriot Act" or hey how about when he tried to strip the baby boomers of all the money the baby boomers had invested in social security, or the way he spied on millions of American citizens on a regular basis with out any warrant. Then there was that torture thing...and didn't you love the way he embroiled us in 2 wars at the same time costing 1000s of American lives and trillions of dollars. Well the list goes on and on.

President Obama is a capitalist and like a capitalist he is governing from the center right. He is not my ideal candidate for the job. I would be much happier with a President Kucinich but President Obama and the Democrats, pathetic as they may be, are clearly the least of two evils.

I hope someday we will see some viable Democratic Socialist candidates, because that is probably America's last great hope.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Jul 17, 2010, at 5:29 AM

Good news... the GOVERNMENT and their lust for more and more power and with Obama's elitist attitude, thinking that us lowly common folk cannot make any decisions for ourselves.. we all now are required to have a Body Mass Index score included in our nationally available medical record that will be accessible by any entity that the government's health care board or some czar deems ok.

We have allowed them to take away so much freedom where will it stop? how much are you willing to give up?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jul 17, 2010, at 3:03 AM

OKR: If we are going to go with the whole, investigate and prosecute politicians who may have violated laws, lets start with Obama then...

How about the way he interfered and went against US foreign policies during Obama's actions in Kenya when he was a Senator and he campaigned for a SOCIALIST candidate for Kenya's Presidency.

Oh this dude running for Kenya's Presidency, his dad and Barry's Dad were good friends and socialists working as comminist agitators in government positions.

Do your own research and read about the Logan Act and how Obama probably violated this law.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jul 17, 2010, at 3:00 AM

"Hannity: 'I can't find any' racist Tea Party signs"

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0716/hannity...

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Jul 17, 2010, at 2:53 AM

Gee xray, so now its only racist if it includes an act of violence...

I think someone carrying a sign that makes racist remsrks is an act of racism. I think support of laws and policies that encourage racism are acts of racism as well. I think someone referring to other folks with racist terms is an act of racism too.

That is what I think and that is what I see and hear from the Teabagger Party...which is really the Republican Party's extreme right wing.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Jul 17, 2010, at 2:50 AM

It sure was amazing to see the numbers of black people step up and condemn the NAACP of their RACIST and DIVISIVE comments regarding a group of people simply making their opposition to the progressive movement in the US at this time... it is sad to see this group fall into line with Sharpton and Jackson and use racism and divisiveness which just adds to the racism problem in the nation instead of working to solve racism. makes them the biggest hypocrits in the whole racism game.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jul 17, 2010, at 1:42 AM

news.... YOU have proved you are incapable of having an open mind and have proved that you are just another lemming swayed by the obama propaganda wing that some call the main stream media.

EVERY time someone comes up with realistic and well thought of debate and opposition to anything coming from the Obama thuggery and the Pelosi/Reid agenda, they call them racist and utilize fear mongering better than anyone else and you foolishly buy into their LIES.

You cannot even name one RACIST thing that a specific person has done while conducting any actions while officially claiming to be a member of the tea party. You might point to some signs at a rally but you always have signs at a rally that might show some extreme point of view.

It is the leftist people who are DESPARATE For some one to blow up some more people in America so they can stand up without any proof and say that it was a radical right winger, a tea bagger, or someone that hated Obama and every time there is an attempt this happens Mayor Bloomberg was the first, and he did so quickly, to stand and say it was probably someone mad at the government a redneck right winger that set up the failed times square bomb.

I could go on and on, but I know your inability to use rational and reasonable thought processes in this specific area are failing you, so I wont waste the typed words. LOL Oh yeah, the guy carrying the assualt type rifle in Arizona when Obama was there campaigning was a black guy not a white guy, like MSNBC idiots tried to claim.. lol keep on proving your "smarts" news.... LOL

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jul 17, 2010, at 1:38 AM

I guess you could play the race card Obama does.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?i...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Jul 16, 2010, at 10:27 PM

Who should teach your kid about sex you the parents or the government?

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?i...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Jul 16, 2010, at 10:17 PM

I guess I could start agreeing with you on absolutely everything so we could all see how ridiculous that would be. Maybe you would like that. I just get sick and tired of that is not credible, you're not credible, the author is not credible, the newspaper not credible, fox news is not credible, my links are not credible, my mom is not credible, my dog is not credible, my boss is not credible and it goes on and on and on and on. If you believe something that someone says it is credible to you even if it comes from news. So okr I'm just playing your song.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Jul 16, 2010, at 10:10 PM

okr I'm just playing news seek and destroy game with anyone that disagree with him. You play it too all liberals play it so I don't see why you don't like it.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Jul 16, 2010, at 9:59 PM

rr3 I have long thought that you do not know what you are talking about. Strange that you would say that about someone else, especially NewsAcross who is consummate in his effort to document, and explain his points. That is a far cry from your own efforts.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Jul 16, 2010, at 9:21 PM

Actually I found a degree in economics one time in a cracker jack box and i guess I threw the darn thing away. Man if I would have kept it I could have put it to good use.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Jul 16, 2010, at 7:50 PM

News you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about but send me my unemploymention check.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Jul 16, 2010, at 7:44 PM

rr3yv0

Actually as an economist, I can assure you Speaker Pelosi is correct.

Unemployment insurance benefits that belong to the worker do stimulate the economy. If we did not have that unemployment would likely be around 25 to 30% right now.

Businesses do not create jobs.

Only demand (consumption) creates jobs.

Demand is defined as the desire and the ABILITY to purchase goods and services. With out the ability to consume, there is no demand. Only demand can create new jobs. Employers do not increase their work force unless their sales increase. That is the only way they can justify new hires and expanding their labor pool while stil making a profit and remaining solvent.

Unemployment insurance benefits allow a laid-off worker to continue to consume. That is good for everyone. Most unemployment insurance benefit income goes directly back into the economy in the form of consumpion. At the very least, this continued demand keeps existing businesses from collapsing during a depression such as the one we are in now. It also has a reverse dominoe effect. As a business increases its labor force, it creates even more consumption and the business also increases its own consumption of resources which means other business also increase their labor pool -- creating even more consumption. In addition, unemployment insurance benefits allow the worker to seek top pay rather than accepting low pay out of desperation. This prevents employers from exploiting workers and drivning down wages.

Yes Speaker Pelosi is definately correct in her assesment.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jul 16, 2010, at 7:21 AM

rr3yv0

Well in my personal opinion as a voter, it appears We the People were finished with conservativism which is really just facsism, and that is why we elected President Obama. That is what we meant by "change." We thought we were electing a liberal because We the Majority rejected conservatism after you conservatives showed the Nation what you were really all about. I think We the Majority felt sure he would prosecute the conservative criminals in the Bush Administration...then he backed off that when he took office.

President OBama began governing conservatively when he became President. Most his policy have been a continuation of President Bush...including the use of neoclassical economic policies which are failing. He continued the wars the conservatives started but never finished rather than ending the wars which I believe most of us thought he was going to end.

It is my hope that we can get a liberal in the White House in 2012 and I doubt if Obama will win the primary. Frankly, I think our next President will be Hillary Clinton. One thing I am very sure of though, returning conservatives to a majority in the Congress and giving them the White House will ensure the destruction of our Nation and our Nation will not survive it.

But that is just my personal opinion and is only relevant to my personal political view. I may be completely wrong...but I do agree with AA when they say insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jul 16, 2010, at 6:37 AM

I think we ought to all quit work and go on the unemployment dole well even Pelosi said herself it is one of the best tools for stimulating the economy and create jobs. Wow what a statement and somebody actually votes for her and there is a Mr. Pelosi out there somewhere.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/07/...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Jul 16, 2010, at 5:25 AM

News I mean all of them. Hey I'm playing your song let's dance.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Jul 16, 2010, at 5:14 AM

Obama didn't deserve to be the nominee in 2008 but a lot of misinformed people voted for him.

News you make my point perfectly thank you mate.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Jul 16, 2010, at 5:10 AM

Oklahoma Reader

Empire building is costing Americans jobs and will probably be the ultimate end of our Nation.

How sad it is that the "Great Democratic Experiment," the USA, a Nation founded on opposition to empires and empire building, should sink to the level of fascist imperialism.

But I think the saddest part of all is that there are so many people in the USA that are supporting fascist imperialism...and they don't even realize that is what they support.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jul 16, 2010, at 1:08 AM

One of the real reasons that Barak Obama does not deserve to be the 2012 nominee of the Democratic Party is that he is dragging our troops deeper, and deeper into the Afghan quagmire.

His own words will come back to haunt him. I paraphrase: I am not against all wars, just dumb wars. http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/its_...

Iraq/Afghanistan: A trillion spent. For what?

A million dead people. For what?

For what? For Empire.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Jul 16, 2010, at 12:34 AM

I know that it probably doesn't matter to some, but here is a link regarding my previous post.

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Jul 16, 2010, at 12:10 AM

There is a constant theme that the media is biased against conservatives, and favors liberals.

If that is the case why is it that Eliot Spitzer is hounded with the word "disgraced" preceding every mention of his name, though "Diaper" David Vitter's name has hardly been mentioned with the word disgraced?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Jul 16, 2010, at 12:03 AM

Uh John,

I guess you didn't realize this but I don't support the Teabagger Party, the Republican Party, the Libertarian Party, or the Democrat Party.

I am an independent socialist.

I don't support any of the folks you mentioned.

I do support the Democratic Socialist Party.

I think both the Democrats and the Republicans sold us down the river.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jul 15, 2010, at 11:27 PM

rr3yv0

What is it about the links you think are not credible? What makes you think they are not qualified>

I mean anybody can string words together but defending your statement is another matter. If you see a credibility problem with a link, please be specific about your critique.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jul 15, 2010, at 11:24 PM

But news your links were not qualified and credible when you find some let me know.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jul 15, 2010, at 10:38 PM

rr3yv0

You say the Democrats are killing the middle class but that is not what the article says. If you believe the author is in error, be sure and contact him and let him know.

Also, if you can find the archives for the Speak out forum, you will find I have already posted an essay in this forum with 15 links to photos of racist signs teabaggers have carried at rallys and you can hear the teabaggers make racist statements in their own voice and words. But I am not going to re-write it just because you may have missed it the first time.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jul 15, 2010, at 10:34 PM

mrxray

Its Judge Napolitano, Chief Legal Analyst of Fox News, who stated that in his professional legal opinion Bush and Cheney should have been indited and put on trial for torture, warrantless searches of American citizens (inside the USA), and war crimes.

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0712/fox-leg...

If you disagree with his professional legal opinion, you may want to take it up with him.

But between you and him, I will take his word for it that crimes were committed and legal action should have been taken. After all he is the one with the law degree and all those years as an attorney and a judge. He has credibility in the legal field. And what were your qualifications in the legal field again?

As far as evidence, again I agree with the Judge. I think there is a lot of evidence of crimes being committed and certainly enough to get an inditement.

It is sad that such trials tend to take place in these types of forums. I say lets give Bush and Cheney their day in court. We the People will, through the Federal prosecutor, present our evidence. Bush and Cheney can present their evidence and defense then let's let a jury decide the matter.

After all....the American People deserve their day in court too and shouldn't justice be blind to one's occupation when it comes to the law? Bush was President...not a king.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jul 15, 2010, at 10:28 PM

The Democrats are killing the middle class. WAKE UP!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jul 15, 2010, at 10:18 PM

News you know nothing about racist positions of the Tea Party you just believe all the liberal news about it that is false. Besides how are you qualified to give credible information about the Tea Party? You can lie like the drive by media!! That's your typical argument because they represent something you don't agree with.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jul 15, 2010, at 10:17 PM

"'Globalism' killing US middle class"

http://www.businessinsider.com/22-statis...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jul 15, 2010, at 5:29 PM

"Report: Gore Accuser Failed Lie Detector Test"

http://www.kptv.com/yourvote/24263736/de...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jul 15, 2010, at 4:40 PM

xray

The only one accusing the NAACP of racism is the Teabagger Party...and we all about the Teabagger Party...ultra-right wing of the Republican Party and well known for its openly racist positions.

I just consider the source...the Teabaggers...and then I know the real reason for the Teabagger's outrageous accusation.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jul 15, 2010, at 4:39 PM

Just wanted to see if you were still kickin Mrxray. Good to see that you are. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Jul 15, 2010, at 1:55 PM

WOW, did anyone really think they would see the day that the NAACP would change from a group supporting civil rights to a group that supports RACISM and Fear mongering and divisiveness and make statements based on lies about another group simply because they believe in a differing type of agenda for our nation?

NAACP no longer cares about the black people it only cares about getting its handout from the government and pushing an agenda that creates a new type of slavery for people, slavery to the Government, slavery for the next handout. NAACP and groups like them and Sharpton and J. Jackson and those people are the new facilitators of this new slavery

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Jul 15, 2010, at 9:30 AM

I find it sad that the whole Bush disccusion is still going on. LOL IF there were PROOF of blatant outright distortions on purpose of data and that Bush just manipulated things simply so he could get revenge for his father..... then he would be in jail or have been to court.

If you are going to go after Bush, based on the fact that you did not like his decisions about where to attack back against terrorists and the tools that they used to fight terrorism, then you have to be equally willing to go after a person that spends MILLIONS of dollars to prevent his college papers from being made public and preventing his REAL ACTUAL birth certificate from being made public and from preventing any college documentation that might refer to his real citizenship status of him and his real father from being made public.

But then this is a POLITICAL game after all and you everyone buys into THEIR version of what is right and forgets the rest of the facts and occurances during the actual original incident that does not support their beliefs today.

Bush is out of office, thank God, and now we have to wait anxiously until this freak is out of office since he has proven he is inexperienced, thin skinned and vengeful, divisive and completely partisan unless you agree with his way, and weak in the eyes of all the rest of the world, and is spending our nation in to destruction.

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Jul 15, 2010, at 9:26 AM

I wont get into the debate about evolution versus creation. The only thing I will say is that I have read tons on both sides of this issue. There is CREDIBLE science that disproves some of the science behind evolution and there is science that supports both ideas.

My trouble with evolution is that a theory was developed based on micro evolution, the evolution within a species, and then this theory was used to attempt to disprove creationism and the bible by applying it to the world in an attempt to say that the earth was millions or billions of years old and that there was a progression from one celled creatures to something as complex as a mammal even to the human state.

This is science based on a preconceived idea and the science was fit around it except they have some missing data to make it complete

The long winded point is that Evolution remains a theory and not a scientific law simply because they cannot and do not have any visible, reproducable proof that one celled beings can or do change into a multiple celled being and the only chages are within the species.

You can post all the links from either side you want but it will not change the thinkers from either side because it is more of an ideal than science, even the believers in evolution have to have 'faith' that their idea is right because of the missing data that makes their idea in complete. And those believing in creationism are also based in faith.

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Jul 15, 2010, at 9:12 AM

Breaking ranks when the heat is on.

http://www.redstate.com/erick/2010/07/14...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jul 15, 2010, at 7:37 AM

A Good Year to Die

http://www.redstate.com/curt_levey/2010/...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jul 15, 2010, at 7:35 AM

Dawkins is a phoney how do tell the real from the phoney?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jul 15, 2010, at 7:30 AM

Here is an interesting video where Dr, Richard Dawkins debunks the phoney "Dawkins stumped" videos floating around you tube. Its pretty funny and he has a lot of fun with them.

http://www.youtube.com/user/richarddawki...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jul 15, 2010, at 6:28 AM

News is that what you call qualified and credible. I know where the chicken came from do you?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jul 15, 2010, at 6:25 AM

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

British scientists claim to have solved the mystery

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38238685/ns/...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jul 15, 2010, at 12:31 AM

I don't know who is going to get the last word here, but here are some great last words.

http://www.asylum.com/2010/07/12/funnies...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jul 14, 2010, at 11:53 PM

I note that our stalwart libertarian has not entered this fray. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jul 14, 2010, at 10:54 PM

You are right John reasoning makes one think and your post concerning evolution proves it doesn't matter what the evidence is if they are blind to the facts.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jul 14, 2010, at 10:16 PM

"Barack Obama was elected due to his ability to tell Americans to go to hell in such a way that a majority of them actually looked forward to the trip, but now reality has changed things and he's being rejected." -Rush

"The Democrats are the ones who broke the economy. In 2007, George W. Bush's final budget deficit was $161 billion. Barack Obama? The national debt has risen $2.4 trillion in the 500 days since Obama was immaculated. That's an average of nearly $5 billion per day." -Rush

And they keep blaming this on Bush must be the eye thing the ability or lack of ability to see evidence.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jul 14, 2010, at 9:30 PM

By the way news the evidence is all around you if a person opens their eyes. Oh I think I finally got it our eyes have evolved to where we can see the evidence and yours haven't gosh you might have something there.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jul 14, 2010, at 8:57 PM

Come on news get out of your circle or should I say think outside of your box. You have no verifiable evidence except what you have read and believe on faith. Explain the first step in evolution for life to from something not alive unless you think rocks and dirt are alive. Basic question how did life begin. I doubt we get a credible answer John just more circles or links.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jul 14, 2010, at 8:54 PM

john henry's hammer

As I said before, please submit the data/results from your experimentation, your qualtitative methods used, and your conclusion to a scientific journal for peer review.

If you have discovered new evidence that clearly supports your hypothesis, then you should definately submit it for independent verification.

However, I am not aware of anyone who supports similar ideas to yours that has submitted anything at all for peer review. Why not? What are they afraid of? Or maybe you and the other theists have no factual, verifiable, testable, observable, repeatable evidence to support your hypothisis. Well evolutionary biologists do have evidence and have submitted that evidence for independent verification. The results have been successfully duplicated. Their scientific theory has passed peer review.

I look forward to reading how your hypothisis works out under peer review.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Jul 14, 2010, at 6:36 PM

rr3yv0

Fact: i provided fully qualified, credible links from experts in the field as well as links to the physical evidence.

I qualified every statement I made. That is reasonable.

You have failed to qualify anything you have said. As I said, you can't qualify your statments because you have no basis in fact for the statements you have made.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Jul 14, 2010, at 7:08 AM

News you sound like a Jehovah's Witness. They have their little circle of knowledge that they know real well but and they try to keep you in that circle so they appear intelligent. Get them outside of that they are lost you know kind of like the president without a teleprompter.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jul 14, 2010, at 7:06 AM

Oh now we're back to qualifying. Come news you can't produce any qualified evidence so you want me to qualify my statement? Really is that your only argument?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jul 14, 2010, at 6:55 AM

You say, "Evolution is a religion that you have to take on faith because there is no proof"

Can you qualify that statement please. How did you come to this conclusion despite fossil record and all the other physical evidence which fully proves evolution?

I look forward to your qualification of your statement...but I bet you can't.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Jul 14, 2010, at 6:46 AM

fully testable, verified evidence to support the law of evolution. Come now news you can't possibly believe that.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jul 14, 2010, at 6:43 AM

If there was credible evidence of evolution wouldn't we see it all around us? All I see is evidence of a creator.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jul 14, 2010, at 6:40 AM

rr3yv0

The evidence is on display in many museums.

In addition, all the scientific evidence I have referred to and all that I am aware of have all been independently verified and passed peer review. Yeah I believe those many people and their physical evidence and yeah I think its pretty reasonable.

But a buring bush that talks?

I would think anyone who tells me a burning bush spoke to them is suffering from hallucinations and/or delusions because that would be the most likely cause.

There is a mountain of fully testable, verified evidence to support the law of evolution.

There is not one shread of testable,repeatable, varifiable evidence to support any religion or the existance of a God, Godess, or Gods...not even one single piece of testable, verifiable, repeatable evidence...not one.

I will stick with the testable, verifiable, repeatable physical evidence. You can keep your "faith" that magic is real.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Jul 14, 2010, at 6:27 AM

Evolution is a religion that you have to take on faith because there is no proof.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jul 14, 2010, at 6:21 AM

"'Why Evolution Is True' by Jerry Coyne, AAI 2009"

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=w1m4mATY...

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Jul 14, 2010, at 6:16 AM

Did someone tell you that news?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jul 14, 2010, at 5:28 AM

john henry's hammer

As regards the rocks in Antartica...work has been done there, fossil remains have been found there.

I recomend you consider taking some course work at the local university of your choosing in biology and geology. They professors there would be happy to instruct you in these areas and they do have the answers to the questions you have.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jul 13, 2010, at 11:34 PM

john henry's hammer

Please submit the results of your scientific study that proves the existance of God to a scientific journal for peer review and please include the evidence that proves that HE/It is the only God in existance.

Regarding you video of "Dawkins Stumped," its a phoney mate. That has been circulating around you tube almost forever. It was debunked a long time ago. It never happened. The fact is that the video was highly edited to make it appear as if Dr, Dawkins was stumped lol. He wasn't and he answered her question right away. Its an easy question for any credible biologist to answer.

As to how morality developed biologically, I will let the experts explain it:

Its based in the "selfish gene" discovered by Dr. Dawkins and explained thoroughly in his book :The Selfish Gene.

Here is a brief and simple explaination of the concept by Dr. Dawkins -- the scientific data that supports it is well documented in his book, has successfully passed peer review, and can all be found in his book. I recomend you read it sometime. Its an excellent piece of scientific work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciFe8JmR-...

For a more detaled explaination, you can watch this lecture by another expert.

"'Morality: From the Heavens or From Nature?' by Dr. Andy Thomson, AAI 2009"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnXmDaI8I...

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jul 13, 2010, at 11:31 PM

rr3yv0

The evidence of what has happened in the past is clearly evident in the rocks.

Every source I listed is of absolute crediblity and all are linked to qualified evidence. All the information contained therein has passed peer review many times and the results of every scientific experiment which provided the data have been independently verified -- many times.

The sources are excellent and fully qualified.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jul 13, 2010, at 11:01 PM

I can read these liberals like a book a bad one at that.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Jul 13, 2010, at 8:53 PM

Your right about one thing all your links you posted are not credible and in your own words baloney. News you can't prove the past so you accept somebodies word that you deem credible as fact and believe it. You have more faith then I do.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Jul 13, 2010, at 8:52 PM

rr3yv0

As to your statement regarding faith (a belief not supported by fact or evidence), I use the Bolney Detector kit in any analysis that I do.

Your claim that I believe extraordinary claims about the past based on some kind of faith if completely false.

There is a mountain of scientifically derived, factual (using scientific methodolgy of testing, observing the results, hypothesis or null hypothesis, ruling out false positive and/or false negative results, independent verification, and of course peer review) evidence of the geological record. The facts are in the evidence. Believing in factual evidence is not faith...its rationalism.

There is no way I just take anyone's word for anything. I require factual evidence or well supported expert opinion which has successfuly passed peer review. The Baloney Detector kit won't allow me to accept anything else but factual evidence and qualified opinion. If you cannot prove your statement is true, don't make the statement.

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictiona...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geological_...

http://geology.about.com/od/evolution/a/...

http://www.fossilmuseum.net/GeologicalTi...

Baloney Detection Kit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUB4j0n2U...

Give me something that passes the Baloney Detection Kit analysis and I am with ya mate...otherwise its baloney.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jul 13, 2010, at 8:13 PM

rr3yv0

An unsupported opinion or one that is only supported by someone else's empty opinion is meaningless.

I will continue to ask you for qualified citations everytime you make an extraordinary claim and such will require extraordinary evidence or it the statement(s) will be pointed out and the lack of evidence to support that statement will be pointed out.

The days when neocons could win elections with nothing more than wild, crazy claims with not one shread of evidence to support those crazy claims is over. That is pre-Bush thinking. Now its time for the neocons to learn that the Post-Bush era requires extraordinary evidence to support extraordinary claims. We the People won't buy Republican/teabagger claims at face value anymore.

Don't tell me mate...show me!

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jul 13, 2010, at 7:21 PM

Tell you what news I will save you some time. I don't really give a rip what you think of what I post or my opinion. No matter how much I qualify or provide the facts if it is something you don't agree with it won't matter to you now will it? You can qualify your post all you want to but I really don't care. I post my opinion on here to let others read it some agree some don't. You have the right to try to disqualify everything I say but does that make you relevant to your fan base? I don't know maybe it does. I could apply this to okr and nanadot and even jo. I hope I don't sound angry because I am not in fact I always have fun getting some people riled just because they don't like my opinion. But news yours is the same old song and dance about qualifying and being relevant maybe we just like what someone says and agree with it. I know you do especially when we discuss science and spirituality you say you believe the facts but facts cannot absolutely prove the past if no one was there. It takes faith and that is something we all practice everyday without even knowing it.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Jul 13, 2010, at 7:10 PM

See I told you John.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Jul 13, 2010, at 6:17 PM

rr3yv0

Don't forget mate...I dont make the rules on qualifying arguments...society has already done that.

If a commentor makes a statement, the burden of proving that statement falls upon the person making the statement.

If the commentor can't qualify his/her statement then he/she might as well be just making it all up...and that is often the case.

Please stop blaming the reader for asking the commentor where his proof is. That is the right of any reasonable reader and is fully justified.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jul 13, 2010, at 5:58 PM

okr I agree with the judge if Bush and Cheney are guilty then lets get on with it. I don't have the power to do a darn thing about it maybe you do. That was the only thing in that interview that Raw Story decided to report on though and there are a lot of other points in the interview I agree with. Lets see okr you didn't respond to my post oh yeah they weren't meaningful and rational. Boy am I bad!!!!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Jul 13, 2010, at 5:45 PM

News Across what makes me laugh is how some conservatives wiggle, and squirm to dodge anything that they can't respond to with a pat right wing sound bite.

Your recent post citing the legal expert at Fox News stating that Bush should have been indicted, is a perfect example. That was the point of your post. Did any of them respond to the point? Of course not.

You would think that those sort of folk would take to the bank anything that was stated by Fox News, especially when it is Fox's big time legal expert. They generally use Fox as first source to cite on the blog anything they themselves say.

Not a one has even mentioned whether, or not they agree with the judge.

What about it guys, extraneous B.S. aside, do you agree with the judge? Can (heaven forbid) Fox News' top legal expert ever be wrong? Can you be wrong? The silence is deafening.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Jul 13, 2010, at 3:45 PM

Just remember John, some think their opinions are always qualified and credible just ask them and they will tell you. No don't ask because they will tell us anyway just wait and see!! When they don't have an arguement all they have left is to attack ours.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Jul 13, 2010, at 11:16 AM

Oh and john henry's hammer...

While certainly we have a lot to complain about President Bush about (lying with intent to Congress and the American people in order to falsify his real reasons for attacking Iraq (controling Iraqi natural resources) which was never any direct threat to the United States, spying on the American people without a warrant in complete violation of Federal Acts, Title 50, Chapter 36, torture in complete violation of Federal Acts, Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 118, losing $9 billion hard earned, tax-payer dollars in Iraq which his Administration still cannot account for, denying habeous corpus rights to American citizens in direct violation of our Constitution, and so many other evil things).

Yes there is a lot we can complain about President Bush...

...but in my posting the one who says President Bush should have been indited for crimes immediately upon leaving office was Judge Andrew Napolitano...prominant conservative and Republican, and Senior Fox News Judicial Analyst -- not the commenters in this forum.

http://oneutah.org/2010/03/08/karl-rove-...

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/02/opinio...

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/50/usc...

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc...

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/...

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionar...

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0712/fox-leg...

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jul 13, 2010, at 8:33 AM

john henry's hammer

I noticed you failed to qualify even one of your allegations about President Obama.

That's interesting.

...and try not to make rr3yv0's academically fatal mistake of quoting other empty, neocon opinions that also have no qualifing sources lol. Those are not qualified and/or credible citations.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jul 13, 2010, at 7:32 AM

Think You Know The Truth About Democrats? Better Think AGAIN! Not for the weak minded!

http://www.joebidenvideos.com/think-you-...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Jul 13, 2010, at 6:04 AM

The truth about democrats and Social Security

http://bellalu0.wordpress.com/2010/07/08...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Jul 13, 2010, at 5:54 AM

Bush Lied? Quotes from Democrats About the Threat of Iraq

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/b/b...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Jul 13, 2010, at 5:50 AM

As Mark Twain said, Congress is the American Criminal Class.

http://www.urbin.net/EWW/polyticks/democ...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Jul 13, 2010, at 5:37 AM

Ahh...at last the truth is out about the do nothing, except say nay, Republican Senators.

http://satiricalpolitical.com/2010/07/08...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Jul 13, 2010, at 12:59 AM

rr3yv0

Do you really think the empty opinions of ultra-conservatives at a birther website has some kind of credibility?

However, a well respected, highly conservative Judge and Top Legal Analyst of For News has stated very clearly that it is his professional legal opinion that President Bush and Vice President Cheney should have been indited immediately upon leaving office for torture, spying on American citizens, and other crimss as well.

You can see and hear him explain it here:

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0712/fox-leg...

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jul 13, 2010, at 12:24 AM

These seven things that Republicans were for, before the were against them highlight their propensity to put party politics ahead of every thing else. Especially ahead of the welfare of we the embattled citizenry.

They ought to be tarred, feathered, and ridden out of Washington on a rail. http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/07/11/...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Jul 13, 2010, at 12:20 AM

Just another reminder of the horrible mistake that is costing the lives, limbs, and minds of our unfortunate service personnel in Afghanistan.

If Obama does not have the courage to proceed in the direction rationality dictates-i.e., get out of the quagmire now, he will not receive the support of enough voters to succeed in the 2012 primary. Our raison d'etre, Al Quaeda, and bin Laden are gone, and with them moral justification for continuing this fiasco.

http://theragblog.blogspot.com/2010/07/a...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Jul 12, 2010, at 11:31 PM

Another Perspective!

http://obamacrimes.com/?p=1008

Thank You Mr. Estes

http://obamacrimes.com/?p=978

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Jul 12, 2010, at 9:29 PM

Oklahoma Reader

LOl lol lol lol...devils here, devils there, devils everyehere...lol

---unless its a conservative President like Bush...who the conservatives' own legal expert, Senior Fox News Judicial Analyst, Judge Andrew Napolitano, says should have been indited, in his professional legal opinion.

How interesting these devil spotters were so silent when Bush was ravegiing our legal system, trashing our cherished American traditions, and abusing the office of President.

I am no big supporter of President Obama. He swings way to hard to the right for my liking, but he is the least of 2 evils.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jul 12, 2010, at 8:48 PM

'Fox legal analyst: Bush should have been indicted"

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0712/fox-leg...

Includes video of entire interview with Fox News' senior judicial analyst

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jul 12, 2010, at 6:27 PM

Debt keeps rising with Democrats in control of Congress.

http://download.premiereradio.net/guest/...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Jul 12, 2010, at 6:11 PM

I guess all that money government officials put in their pocket is not profit?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Jul 12, 2010, at 5:25 PM

RR3: LOL there was no question, that is the problem

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Jul 11, 2010, at 10:55 PM

OKR:: Cant you come up with a better comment than that? Just because my words are the truth on that specific comment does not mean that I think Obama is the Devil... just an immature, inexperienced person who has never run ANYTHING of importance and has not had people dependent on his being able to run a business and make a profit. His lack of understanding the reality, as oppposed to some specific theory or another, is evident in almost everything he does.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Jul 11, 2010, at 10:55 PM

Yeh Yeh guys, Obama is the Devil incarnate. Talk among yourselves.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jul 11, 2010, at 10:29 PM

Got one for you xray

If Obama is the answer how stupid was the question?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Jul 11, 2010, at 9:28 PM

Funny mrxray that some cannot see that no matter how blatant it is.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Jul 11, 2010, at 9:21 PM

Boycott people boycotting Arizona..... Obama's LEFTIST Dept of Justice wont prosecute sanctuary cities that are VIOLATING federal laws but will sue the Arizona for UPHOLDING and reinforcing Federal law AND stopped the prosecution of the RACIST guys from the Black Panter group that were PUBLICALLY spouting off RACIST and HATE SPEECH ..... THIS IS THE REAL OBAMA AGENDA

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Jul 11, 2010, at 8:49 PM

the problem lies in those who interpret and the methods they use

http://www.carm.org/how-interpret-bible

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Jul 11, 2010, at 8:13 AM

NanaDot: The Sharon Astyk piece is another good example of the propensity for bitterly ironic folly that our country seems to be unable to avoid.

Sorry for the delayed response. I try to respond more quickly to directly addressed posts that are meaningful, and rational.

Thank you for calling it to my attention.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Jul 10, 2010, at 3:54 PM

So okr you believe that the world is so wonderful because you don't believe or adhere to what the bible commands? Interesting!! If you believe parts of the Bible how do you determine what parts to believe? In the end times man's heart will be hardened, they will see evidence and still not believe. Be careful okr and I will pray for you.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Jul 10, 2010, at 8:21 AM

I am glad that no one literally adheres to everything commanded, and demanded in the Holy Bible. It would be an awful world if any one did. Thank goodness absolutely everyone chooses what parts they believe, and chooses not to believe other parts.

There is no one that swallows it whole. Whew!

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Jul 10, 2010, at 2:40 AM

So.... in the infinte wisdom of Nanadot..... stop building Military items NOW.... eliminate our Armed forces and only have a bare bones national guard to call up in case someone invades our nation (Not counting the illegals and violent types at the border because we are supposed to ignore those people) and become a weak nation with no real national defense, ignore any future terror attacks on our nation and totally ignore that in order to remain a sovereign nation you must also have a mighty army to stand as a partial deterrent.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jul 10, 2010, at 2:00 AM

Thanks for the tip News. The documentary may be downloaded, and/or watched free at the following link. http://freedocumentaries.org/film.php?id...

There are many other free documentaries at the site.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Jul 8, 2010, at 11:35 PM

"The War on Democracy"

John Pilger

"The War on Democracy' is John Pilger's first major film for the cinema - in a career that has produced more than 55 television documentaries. Set in Latin America and the US, it explores the historic and current relationship of Washington with countries such as Venezuela, Bolivia and Chile."

Includes video.

Right now our Nation is doing things -- bad things --we think only other countries do.

Its time for the World's greatest democracy to stop trying to be the World's biggest empire.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jul 8, 2010, at 6:49 PM

I'm with ya, OKR. Two long, futile wars is two too many.

-- Posted by taxedpayer on Thu, Jul 8, 2010, at 2:59 PM

Over thirteen thousand of our soldiers are unfit for combat duty. The number is increasing, and the services are struggling to help them. The cause? Nine years of unrelenting war has used them up. It is time to bring them all home.

http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/07/05/...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Jul 8, 2010, at 1:51 AM

Maybe that our plight is worse than we think.

The right lambasts the current Democratic administration. At times, concerning the administration, there is even a chorus of dismay, and dissent from the left.

After a disastrous eight years of Republican administration who really wants to go back to more of that? Can anyone honestly say that a McCain administration would have been any better? A good many on the right say "I was no fan of Bush". At the end hardly anyone was. John McCain voted with the preference of the Bush administration about ninety percent of the time. The maverick mantle that he attempted to don was non existent. Not only did the emperor (Bush) have no clothes, but the pretender (McCain) claimed a non-existant cloak.

I for one don't like what I have seen coming out of the White House in ten years. Not that it was wonderful before that. We have been failed by Republican, and Democrat administrations. It is time to get proactive, to do better next time.

So I ask all, left, right, and center, what other options do we have? Who should become President in the next administration, why?

Addendum: I know Congress figures in the equation, but one problem at a time. I hear a lot of belly aching about Obama. I hear no one touting a new champion. Is there not one?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Jul 8, 2010, at 12:46 AM

The body count at the White House is down by 17, to approx 469, or 436, with a total annual outlay of around $36million.

They're claiming that no one being paid over $100,000. got a raise.

Can you believe that someone working there makes just $21,000.? That person must have a cot in the basement.

Four people on the staff work for free, but it didn't detail their chores.

I've been in the White House once, and it didn't seem to be big enough to hold over 400 people. Maybe some work outdoors.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Jul 8, 2010, at 12:14 AM

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Jul 8, 2010, at 12:04 AM

So what about the White House salary data let's hear it.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jul 7, 2010, at 11:56 PM

Slater it must be waaaaaaaay past your bedtime. Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Oh I can't stop!!!!!!!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jul 7, 2010, at 11:55 PM

news... so your argument is that the MarshallNews Political speak out blog is some how formal? And because YOU hold it as formal then some sort of RULES apply? LOL

You dont have to take anything I say as fact and as a rational person using reason and intellect, I would HOPE you dont take my word or the words of any source that I may occasionally post as fact. I NEVER take your sources as fact, and I could care less if you post a link or not. I am fully capable of searching and finding out for myself, if I choose to do so and have the time, any topic that you might post about and your opinions about said topic.

The SILLY and time wasting argument that somehow what I say is irrelevant simply because you dont LIKE my source or that I may have not posted a source bears NO weight in a setting as this, because in fact it is an INFORMAL setting with meaningless banter between people in a setting that allows for anonymity.

Again, as I said, it is SIMPLE to find and read and research information and OPINIONS that are posted on here, like the OPINIONS that you readily provide on here but expect everyone else to consider fact.

Simply because you post a link to something other than a blog does not make YOUR source more credible or more worthy because as we see with many aspects of politics and even science, the data is based on information that had a preconceived idea or concept PRIOR TO the research and is funded and prompted and supported by a source that is politically motivated instead of motivated by the quest for truth in an unbiased manner.

The difference is that I KNOW and ADMIT that some sources, if not all, that I read and occasionally post are biased. lol

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Jul 7, 2010, at 10:01 PM

To Slater or whomever made the comment regarding the practice of UNcounting the REAL amount of people unemployed... it is NOT a practice that started 3-4 times longer than I have been alive... If memory serves that was changed in 1994.

and yes there were probably other changes throughout the history of the BLS.... but fact remains we dont publicize the facts, politics develops more and more ways to hide the truth and make it seem like things are not as bad as they really are.

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Jul 7, 2010, at 9:49 PM

House Democrats 'Deem' Faux $1.1 Trillion Budget 'as Passed'

http://www.marklevinshow.com/goout.asp?u...

Long-Term Budget Outlook Report 'Dire'

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?i...

Thanks to the majority in Congress we are well on the road to fiscal failure.

http://www.house.gov/budget_republicans/...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jul 7, 2010, at 6:34 PM

One of the articles you referenced, john henry, also says this:

"Muhammad is regularly cited as the most common name in the world. It means "one who is praiseworthy", and is often given to boys as an honorary prefix and is followed by the name by which they are commonly known."

It hardly seems worthy of note, then, that the name is gaining popularity in England, if it's already the most popular name in the world, wouldn't you say?

Even Shakespeare didn't place much value on just a person's name, did he? "A rose would smell as sweet by any other name."

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Wed, Jul 7, 2010, at 2:29 PM

What are the real reasons we are in Afghanistan? You have to consider their natural resources, their geographic location, but also this: http://www.spiegel.de/international/worl...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Jul 6, 2010, at 11:49 PM

JHH said "Oklahoma Reader - I know I won't change your mind, do you have a pre-existing mind set?"

Of course I do JHH, just as you do.

That is why when I write a rebuttal to something I am not just addressing it to the author. I am more interested in those folks that read both sides. Some of them are not as set in their ways as the more zealous of us that post on this blog.

That is one good thing about this blog that is absent at Fox News, The Limbaugh show, et al. You are going to get both sides here.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Jul 6, 2010, at 11:08 PM

jhhammer,

Your source for stating that Mohammed is the number one name for newborn boys in Britain?

Daily Mail in Sep 2009 had Mohammed ranked at 16 on the boys' chart, two places up from a decade ago.

If all the variants of the name of the Islamic prophet are added up, it actually takes third place.

On a regional basis, Mohammed ranked second in the West Midlands, third in London and fourth in Yorkshire.

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Tue, Jul 6, 2010, at 11:05 PM

The corruption of our puppet government in Afghanistan has no bounds. If you doubt that statement read the attached link. http://www.spiegel.de/international/worl...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Jul 6, 2010, at 10:41 PM

What about liberal violence?

Violence is a product of the fringe, on either side.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/mithridate-...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Jul 6, 2010, at 9:38 PM

History contains no shortage of acts of Christian terrorism. For example, you can't beat the Crusades, the Inquisition and the murder of their OWN people of differing faiths by the English under Henry VIII, Cromwell, Elizabeth I, and others. And this is merely the short list.

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Tue, Jul 6, 2010, at 1:14 PM

Oklahoma Reader

Well OK, I once had a professor who said, "humans make mistakes and do crazy things...that is what makes us human."

Its a big boat, mate, and we are all in it.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jul 6, 2010, at 1:32 AM

News you do a great job of providing links to people who inquire about a topic.

Me? I'm too lazy. I just lay down one link, and rationalize that if they are really interested they will run with it. Few do.

I guess one test is do the people check multiple links when provided? If so, does it result in honest consideration of differing opinion?

I am inclined to believe that most will run right back to materials that affirm a preexisting mind set, dispute any other perception than that, and at least subliminally suggest if you believe this you are not only right, but good.

Watcha think?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Jul 6, 2010, at 12:40 AM

I might add that in one sense I do agree with John. Most Christians would probably point to the extremists of their faith and say, "well they are not really Christian" and rightly so.

Interestingly enough, the suburb of Sydney in which I live is predominantly Muslim and have heard them say the same thing. They point to extremists of their faith and say, "they are not really Muslim" and rightly so.

I might also point out that many Muslim and many Christian communities across the World have expressed great condemnation of terrorism and advocate peaceful co-existance.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jul 6, 2010, at 12:24 AM

In his comment, john henry's hammer, says,

"I hadn't noticed any "Christians" committing acts of terrorism."

It should duly noted that I have no doubt about John's sincerity in that statement. Its easy not to see something if you are not looking to begin with.

Perhaps the following examples of violent, extremist positions and acts of extreme violence for the sake of extremist Christianity will help.

1.) the Klu Klux Klan

"Sinners in the Hands of an Angry Mob: Violence against Religious Outsiders in the U.S. South, 1865--1910" Patrick Q. Mason, B.A., M.A., M.A, Doctoral Thesis, University of Notre Dame.

http://etd.nd.edu/etd_data/theses/availa...

2.) The Irish-Catholic dominated, Provisional Irish Republican Army (IRA)

http://www.cfr.org/publication/9240/prov...

3.) Then Christian militia 'Hutaree'

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/ynews_ts13...

http://www.hutaree.com/About%20Us.html

4.) Eric Rudolph/Army of God

Eric Rudolph's Homepage

http://www.armyofgod.com/EricRudolphStat...

Eric Rudolph's Written Statement when he pled guilty

http://www.armyofgod.com/EricRudolphStat...

5.) Rachelle Ranae "Shelley" Shannon and the army of god

http://www.armyofgod.com/shelleyselect.h...

6.) Christian Identity Movement

http://www.religioustolerance.org/cr_ide...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_I...

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jul 5, 2010, at 11:00 PM

Johnhenryshammer: Check out "Christian Identity" movement. Very interesting. You can start at the following link if you want to. http://eyeonhate.com/mcveigh/mcveigh3.ht...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Jul 5, 2010, at 9:30 PM

john henry's hammer

...and wouldn't it be nice for the less radical Christians to condemn the actions of the more radical Christians?

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jul 5, 2010, at 5:56 PM

rr3yv0

The burden of proof falls upon the person making the statement...not on the reader.

The blogger failed to prove his case and offered only his own unqualified interpretation and empty opinion.

That is a fact mate.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jul 5, 2010, at 5:53 PM

Same tired liberal argument(yawn) tear down your opponent and offer nothing of substance. I went to the links just fine and went to specific government documents stating the facts mate. Research! Research!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Jul 5, 2010, at 5:56 AM

rr3yv0

I saw 3 general references with no direct or parenthetical quotes, he failed to cite the specific locations paragraph and line number, and I know I was certainly unable to get to any link when I attempted to click on them...and I even went to the original op-ed piece.

Making a general references without proper citation does not meet even the most basic, acceptable academic or professional standard.

I suspect what we are actually seeing in that blog piece is the Author's very broad interpretation of of how he reads particular Acts of the Congress. In addition, when he leaves out direct quotes completely as well as parenthetical quotes, it leads the rational mind to wonder why he does not want us to know specifically what the Acts say.

You may be satisfied with that poorly written blog piece and you may take his every word for absolute truth...but I am way to skeptical to ever get sucked into the nonsense I read in that blog.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jul 5, 2010, at 4:32 AM

Following CIA director Leon Panetta's admission last week that the number of Al Qaeda in Afghanistan may be down to just 50 to 100 members, or even fewer, Fareed Zakaria on CNN:

"If Al Qaeda is down to 100 men there at the most," Zakaria asked, "why are we fighting a major war?"

Good question.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Jul 5, 2010, at 1:35 AM

I would rather read the tea leaves than attend a tea party.

http://robertreich.org/post/688197058/wh...

http://robertreich.org/post/764586220/sl...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Jul 5, 2010, at 1:22 AM

A refrain is only as strong as its weakest link.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Jul 5, 2010, at 12:32 AM

Funny news you didn't choose to see any links in mrxray's article. I found three a didn't look real hard.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Jul 4, 2010, at 10:49 PM

MrXray said this:

"No taxes on the lower/middle classes right? Was that not the promise?"

Were you trying to say "no tax INCREASE for income under $250,000.? That's what was stated in the text of his speeches, and that's what he stated in your youtube examples.

It seems you're the one misunderstanding what was said.

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Jul 4, 2010, at 9:21 PM

I am re-posting the "Baloney Detection Kit" video in order to assist some folks in understanding why I ask for qualified sources and evidence when it comes to statements made in opinion pieces. I hope this will help. I think a lot of folks might agree that its contains some pretty good advice and is based in rock-solid, common sense.

Please enjoy this video:

"RDF TV - Baloney Detection Kit - Michael Shermer"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUB4j0n2U...

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jul 4, 2010, at 7:15 PM

rr3yv0

Documenting ones claims in an essay -- whether that essay is a legitimate news article or an opinion piece such as the blog posted by xray -- is not my rule...its the rule of our society.

Every accredited University in the United States and the World requires that an article, essay, blog, journal, ect document their sources of information. The burden of proof is upon the person making the claim...not on the reader. The only exception to this that I know of is in the case of a journalist who must protect his source. However, most news organizations have verification procedures set up that allow the news org to make sure that there is a legitimate source of the information. However in the case of the blog xray cited, there is no need to protect the source. All the author had to do was cite his sources and provide links -- but he chose not to do that and that would make any reasonable person very suspicious of his wild claims.

xray decided to do something not generally advised in a public forum...he chose to cite a blog as evidence of his claim. Unfortunately for him, he cited an opinion piece that did not have a single shread of evidence to support the Authors' wild statements.

Yeah rr3yv0, I am from Missouri mate...show me!

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jul 4, 2010, at 6:31 PM

Mrxray I don't care who an honest thorough investigation nails, Pelosi, or anyone else.

Actually those hapless folk that still are fervent Bush supporters (there are some, I think) should welcome such an endeavor. It would clear him of all charges if he is as pure as some choose to believe. That would do wonders for his image.

I truly believe this is above party politics. I also believe that if any members of the current administration are, or have been guilty of a cover up they should also be indicted.

This investigation should be on behalf of the American people. Will it ever happen? No.

By the way I agree with you regarding the employment issue. Way understated in my opinion.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jul 4, 2010, at 4:03 PM

As much as I'd like to stick around and discuss meaningless subjects with you, my wife is threatenting me with bodily harm if I don't get up from here and go along with her to the neighbors.

Have a great afternoon and I'll see you in the funny papers. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Jul 4, 2010, at 3:10 PM

MrXray, the policy regarding unempolyment statistics has always been, and remains, that ONLY those who are receiving unemployment compensation are counted. Once the benefit period expires, or once the individual voluntarily stops actively seeking work through the employment service, that individual is no longer counted in the total.

It's that simple.

However, the argument over the numbers persists, and always will, since Washington has always laid down a smoke screen for all things volatile.

It does no good to strangulate yourself with your jock strap over a method that's been in place two or three times longer than you've been alive.

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Jul 4, 2010, at 3:08 PM

Yes MrXray, I read the text in your links, and nowhere did I see Obama saying he intended to eliminate income tax levies against lower and middle class people, but I saw what everyone else has seen (except for you, I guess), that income tax rates would be lowered for a portion of the population.

Once in office, he reduced the tax rate for a sizeable number of people, and that was done on a temporary basis, which he made clear to all of those who were listening.

I don't intend to argue this point with you; if you have a Congressional representative or senator who talks straight, ask that person for the details of the current and proposed tax structures and learn for yourself, and in the meantime, stop posting links containing empty and misleading rhetoric.

As to the Fox News blog, I side with News. Yes, the tax burden will be shifting and some people will be paying more. You're sounding like the person in the custard shop who apparently objects to paying taxes.

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Jul 4, 2010, at 2:56 PM

Didn't Clinton have a Bin Laden moment?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Jul 4, 2010, at 2:29 PM

OKR: I was never a supporter of Bush. I, however, dont even attempt to make any claim that he was the best or the worst, nor do I hold to the conspiracy theories that claim Bush should be tried for war crimes and all of the extremist nonsense.

The reality of the fact is that CONGRESS voted in a grand majority to support the Iraq action and the Afghanistan action, so if the president is a war criminal then to are all the people in Congress at the time. AND Pelosi would have to be held accountable as well since she WAS INFORMED and signed off on the interrogation tactics and blah blah....

I can make a case that Obama should be impeached. I think that the voters failed to comprehend exactly what type of Chicago THUGGERY was coming out of Chicago in the form of the Obama machine, with ACORN, SEIU and all of the close advisers people that came with Obama to DC.

But then this is what happens when the media gets so blinded by BUSH Hate that they cannot do their job adequately in vetting, in depth, a candidate that was opposing the Republican party.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Jul 4, 2010, at 2:28 PM

Slater: If you actually READ the monthly unemployment numbers the reports from the GOVERNMENT tell you how many people are not counted as unemployed since they are not looking for work thus dropping off the 'unemployment benefits" list because they are not meeting the requirment of doing the job applications every month.

Lets take the June numbers... May unemployment was 9.7% and June dropped to 9.5%. Looks good right and this is the number most of the media reported. This number is referred to as U3 by the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) and is the common number used.

This is the definition of this statistic: "The official definition of unemployment used by the BLS includes anyone age 16 or older who is not institutionalized and is not currently employed, but able to work, available for work, and actively seeking work."

U6 is another number used by BLS. This is the definition for that:

"The U-6 unemployment rate is the Bureau of Labor Statistics' (BLS) broadest unemployment measure, including short-term discouraged and other marginally-attached workers as well as those forced to work part-time because they cannot find full-time employment." This number is about 16.

However, as you can read from the definitions, NEITHER number includes the LONG TERM unemployed/discouraged that are no longer looking for work. According to info I can find, in 1994 the GOVERNMENT made this definition to eliminate the long term unemployed from being counted in the unemployment numbers. The data I find regarding this more inclusive unemployment rate puts that number, including the long term discouraged unemployment at 16.6% in May down to 16.5% in June.

However since neither the U3 or the U6 #s do not reflect the long term the REAL unemployment number is still reflecting about about the same for the past few months. So if the long term unemployed are not counted by the government and the number that includes this stays the same but the other two numbers decreases, that tells us that the numbers dropping off and not being counted by the government is actually more in June than in May. All the unemployment counting data from the BLS does is utilize accounting tricks to make the rates appear better.

The data is hard to collect regarding people who are discouraged and not looking for work since they are not counted so who knows what the actual unemployment rate is. I know that some will claim to be economics experts and will say that it does not matter if we count those people or not, that it does not have any real bearing on our situation, but still to be accurate about our situation, accounting tricks dont really cut it when the Pres also promised openness and honesty and blah blah blah

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Jul 4, 2010, at 2:23 PM

Mrxray I am going to give you back the same credit you give me. You know exactly which missed opportunity to get Al Quaeda that I was referring to don't you? And don't tell me that you didn't have the same reaction as I by reflecting that we blew an opportunity.

Just a little jab at George W. Bush. Do you recall that inspirational moment when he looked under things, and about his office for Bin Laden? That was one of the jackinapes in chief's finer moments.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jul 4, 2010, at 2:20 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8erePM8V...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJVMWjTQh...

Obama's own words

I wont waste time with something you have to take the time to read and comprehend and then possible do a little research about

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Jul 4, 2010, at 2:04 PM

Funny Slater you must have selective hearing!

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index....

http://news.prnewswire.com/ViewContent.a...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Jul 4, 2010, at 2:00 PM

OKR: You apparently knew what I was referring to, and it is a matter of semantics. You in fact have bashed Bush for his reaction.

But in continuing this conversation, let me understand this. You advocate for black ops inside the borders of any nation except Iraq and Afghanistan or you feel like it is fine and dandy to just operate within the borders of sovereign nations without declaring some sort of formal action? Oh yeah.... you are also advocating sending in of troops into the rugged mountainous terrain with all their hidden paths and caves to do this? interesting

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Jul 4, 2010, at 1:54 PM

I am of the opinion that you can read my links and decide to further research them or not. I am not here to spoon feed you. If that makes you less able to communicate with me then so be it.

Since, I assume, since no one stated which link specifically you were referring to, we are talking about the link with regarding taxes. If you actually READ the article, then you would understand that NO it was not talking about 2009 and that YES they were knowledgable about the upcoming tax increases to that will affect the middle class, yes those less than 250K per year, or 200K per year or 150K per year depending on which speech Obama and Biden were giving.

If you actually read the article, then it is actually fairly easy to do a fairly quick google search and find out in fact that all of those items listed are in fact true and based on FACT.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Jul 4, 2010, at 1:50 PM

Here we go. This one will work:

http://models.quantrix.com/publisher/Pub...

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Jul 4, 2010, at 12:32 PM

Uh-oh! I'm guessing my link won't work. Let me see if I can put it in a workable format.

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Jul 4, 2010, at 12:28 PM

MrXray, I have a pretty good memory, and I don't recall Obama promising NO taxes for the lower and middle classes. Look at this link and you'll see what Obama was actually intending:

file:///C:/Users/ClunkerFromDell/Documents/ELECTION_TAX_BURDEN.htm

As far as I can tell, it's pretty much what we got, based on my 2009 individual income tax return. However, while I'm pleased to have the little extra in my pocket and not Uncle Sam's - or, more specifically, the WS & bank crooks pockets - reducing my tax liability hasn't done a thing for anyone who's unemployed, but Washington is all about symbolism.

If someone is saying Obama promised no taxes, that someone wasn't paying attention.

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Jul 4, 2010, at 12:25 PM

What Would Our Founders Think About Independence In America Today?

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/07/0...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Jul 4, 2010, at 11:37 AM

See I already messed up I meant "accuracy and qualification". Darn it's hard being simple minded.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Jul 4, 2010, at 9:45 AM

Now mrxray you should no better then not to provide links for accuracy and information for news. Come on you know the rules.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Jul 4, 2010, at 9:42 AM

mrxray

I read the blog piece you posted. I am not sure what your point is since the blogger provides no qualified sources of his information nor does he provide any links to his sources so we can check them for accuracy and qualification.

I checked to see what the qualifications of his opinion are, his education, years in the field, ect...he doesn't seem to have any qualification. I certainly don't see CPA included anywhere before or after his name.

His blog and his opinion are empty and meaningless with out qualified citations.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jul 4, 2010, at 3:20 AM

http://www.atr.org/sixmonths.html?conten...

No taxes on the lower/middle classes right? Was that not the promise?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Jul 4, 2010, at 12:38 AM

Mrxray you said "OKR: more specifically you bash Bush all the time for reacting with force to the events of 9/11. So out of morbid curiosity, what would YOU have done were you to be president based on the little actual top secret data that is available to us today?"

You are not accurate. I do not, never have, bashed Bush for reacting with force to the events of 9/11. I have bashed Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld, the triumvirate of terror, for reacting to the events of 9/11 with the wrong force, at the wrong place, at the wrong time. There is a big difference.

I did so prior to the unprovoked attack on the sovereign nation of Iraq. I did so prior to that when our actions in Afghanistan became suspiciously out of sync with our stated mission of capturing Bin Laden, and the other Saudi Arabians responsible for 9/11.

In my opinion all three of the triumvirate are traitors, and my greatest scorn for Obama, and the corporatocracy's congress is reserved for their continued failure to fully investigate, and bring those traitors to justice.

To satisfy your morbid curiousity I will tell you that I would have used incisive special-op attacks, supported by special forces to surround, capture, and/or eradicate Al Quaeda when we, early on, had the choice, and opportunity.

Instead when we had Bin Laden Inc. right where we wanted them we sent ill prepared Afghani troops to seal the deal, holding back our own troops. The Afghans let them slip out of the trap, and flee to Pakistan where they apparently are to this day. It is at that point that I became convinced that our presence in Afghanistan really had nothing to do with capturing the perpetrators of 9/11, and every thing to do with establishing a presence to further an empire establishing agenda.

That is it in a nutshell.

I am all for using a hammer to drive a nail, but using a hammer to break windows should be punished.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jul 4, 2010, at 12:34 AM

Just how can the information in that Fox News link be revalationary? It's an age-old argument that somehow the dimwits believe is news.

This pathetic and continued whining and bickering by politicians should get them all thrown out.

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Jul 3, 2010, at 9:10 PM

Solution to decrease the unemployment rate stop looking for work!!!

"Only government could come up with something that says you've been unemployed too long to be considered unemployed." McCotter told Fox News Friday. "In fact, what you would find, as a statistic, is that if every American in the world stopped looking for work, you would have an unemployment rate of zero."

http://whitehouse.blogs.foxnews.com/2010...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Jul 3, 2010, at 8:03 AM

"'Next year when I start presenting some very difficult choices to the country, I hope some of these folks who are hollering about deficits step up. Because I'm calling their bluff."

Democrats have rigged the rules so that merely stopping a tax increase will be scored to increase the deficit. These are the same Democrats who haven't "paid for" trillions of spending in the last four years, but watch them soon denounce Republicans as fiscally irresponsible merely for trying to stop a tax increase.

After those tax rates were cut in 2003, total federal tax revenue increased by 44%, or $743 billion, from 2003-2007.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Jul 3, 2010, at 7:26 AM

Six Months to Go Until

The Largest Tax Hikes in History

Read more: http://www.atr.org/sixmonths.html?conten...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Jul 3, 2010, at 7:10 AM

OKR: more specifically you bash Bush all the time for reacting with force to the events of 9/11. So out of morbid curiosity, what would YOU have done were you to be president based on the little actual top secret data that is available to us today?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jul 3, 2010, at 3:08 AM

I am here from the (big) government and I am here to help.... unless it is a holiday or any day ending in y....

http://www.wwl.com/Feds-taking-the-weeke...

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jul 3, 2010, at 3:06 AM

Here is some information regarding the health care bill for you "Big Government knows all and cures all people"

http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/1...

"Here is an interesting quote from this article:

Administration officials insist they can make changes to the program to ensure it lasts until 2014, and that it may not have to turn away sick people. Officials said the administration could also consider reducing benefits under the program, or redistributing funds between state pools. But they acknowledged turning some people away was also a possibility."

SO, Since there is probably not enough money to take care of the high risk people with this 'pool' money they are saying that they will adjust benefits (meaning what is or is not covered)or they will raise deductibles or the like. Sounds EXACTLY like the same practices that INSURANCE companies use except now I dont have a choice if I am without an employer, without an employer that will pay for private insurance or am forced onto the government's dole before the pre-existing condition prohibition takes effect.

Typical government program... underestimate the cost so people wont object or object as mush... then once it is voted in, say OOOOPS we were wrong it is going to cost more and we might have to cut benefits and raise deductibles or whatever.... sounds exactly like a death panel to me...

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jul 3, 2010, at 2:50 AM

MrXray you are absolutely correct regarding special interests ruling our government. We must some how end it. I believe it can be done. I also believe that it is a problem that transcends party politics, and personal political persuasion.

Bravo.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Jul 3, 2010, at 1:59 AM

Mrxray when or where have you ever heard anyone advocate doing nothing after 9-11? What is, was, and will be debated is what was the appropriate response. Certainly not to invade, and destroy Iraq. That was probably the worst choice we could have made, outside of say, bombing Canada.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Jul 3, 2010, at 1:45 AM

I still find it funny that some of you are demanding specific types of economies or belittle a different one.

Economics is not a set science and is pretty much subjective and reality is such that no one theory really covers what happens in reality.

While I think we need government regulations and rules, right now the problem is not with one economic theory or another. The problem is that ALL the people anyone is looking to in DC to solve our problems is bought and paid for by one special interest group or another. AND those special interest groups are becoming more and more radical, either far left or far right. While I personally think the ideals of the far left are much more damaging to our nation than the far right, both are radical and equally at fault.

Until the US fixes this problem in DC and changes the way campaign finances are run and the way that special interest money influences the political power in DC then we will continue to have more and more power consolidated amongst a few people in DC who think they are smarter and better than the rest of the common folk. Our founding fathers warned us over and over that if we allowed too much power to be given to the few then we would see the end of our style of government. The whole concept that a dollar equals a vote is stupid and just allows the corruption that we have today. We have the ability to prevent money from being the driving force in our elections and policy making processes if we wanted to do it.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jul 3, 2010, at 1:24 AM

nandot... as to the point of what source to post... your favorite HUFF PO is not really an unbiased source either... lol

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jul 3, 2010, at 1:16 AM

Here is some interesting information about the cost of the Afghanistan war compared to the entitlements in the budget

1.The $51 billion cost of the war in 2009 is just 1.4% of the $3.5 trillion spent by Washington that year and 2.8% of the $1.4 trillion budget deficit. Even though overall defense spending has grown 81% in real terms since 9/11, it is still responsible for less than 19% of all new spending over that period.

2. Far Less Than TARP, Bailouts, and the Stimulus: The $210 billion lifetime cost of the war from 2001 to 2009 is just one-third of the $787 billion stimulus, or a fifth of the $1.2 trillion price tag for the first 10 years of the House health reform bill. The $241 billion net cost of TARP and the $389 billion bailout of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac both exceed spending on the Afghanistan war to date.

3. Smaller Than the Annual Growth in Entitlements: The entire cost of military operations in Afghanistan in 2009 was less than the increase in Social Security spending, which grew by $66 billion over the course of the year from $617 billion in 2008 to $683 billion in 2009. Medicare, Medicaid, and other entitlements are also growing faster than tax revenues at an unsustainable rate of around 8% per year.

4. One Year of Welfare Under Obama Eclipses Seven-Year Cost of Iraq War: According to the Congressional Research Service, the cost of the Iraq war through the end of the Bush Administration was around $622 billion. By contrast, annual federal and state means-tested welfare spending will reach $888 billion in FY 2010. Federal welfare spending alone will equal $697 billion in that year

5. Cut Domestic Programs to Pay for National Security: The federal government is projected to spend almost $3.8 trillion in 2010. Between Medicare fraud, government subsidies and bailouts, Cash for Clunkers, and so on, Congress should be able to cut spending by 2.6%. Not only would it then offset the costs of the war, but it would be a serious gesture of fiscal responsibility.

For those advocating we just STOP the wars or that we should not have gone there in the first place, here is my question.

Based on the feelings immediately after 9/11 occurred and that it was IN FACT terrorists that conducted this action on our soil, how would the terrorists behaved after this event if the US would have sat back and done nothing in response?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jul 3, 2010, at 1:13 AM

So let me understand this Nanadot....

Because America is a 'consumeristic" nation that is bad, but it is bad because it somehow harms the rest of the world. YET the US DONATES BILLIONS of money each year to the UN for all sorts of world aid, we donate lots of money for AIDS and other disease medications and BILLIONS for all sorts of aid and research and disasters every year. Exactly how is Consumerism harming the world

As for YOUR historical perspective. Our founders left their nations due to circumstances in their home lands. People from all over gathered on this continent and developed a fast growing nation. YET those nations in Europe and China and Japan were using the exact same set of practices to develop empires around the world. What should the US have done in the past to make YOU feel better. Should the US have NOT shownt he world its power and demonstrated the ability to fight off those nations? If the US stayed weak militarily then which of the other nations in the world would you like to be a citizen of?

The practice of using hindsight to belittle the US is pointless as it proves nothing. SO I go back to my question, which nation would YOU desire to have conquered the US in its earliest days after it was established or right during our civil war or during WWI or WWII?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jul 3, 2010, at 1:08 AM

CWilli

I saw that on "Raw Story" earlier and thanks for posting it here mate.

What I think is most shocking is that "Dubba" Bush was "re"-elected for a second term. His selection to be President by the Republican Justices on the Supreme Court -- by a margin of 5 to 4 was bad enough, but even after 4 years of Dubba Bush the voters elected him. Its hard to believe it actually happened...but it did.

Those were probably the worst 8 yeas in modern history as well.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jul 2, 2010, at 5:38 PM

George W. Bush ranked as worst modern day president

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/29...

-- Posted by CWilli on Fri, Jul 2, 2010, at 3:49 PM

How's that economic recovery working out for ya!!

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-07...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jul 1, 2010, at 11:11 PM

news have you ever seen government jobs phased into the private sector? I know the military contracts maintenance and other things out to a private contractor but there jobs are always dependent on the military. They are military jobs without the uniform.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jul 1, 2010, at 11:09 PM

I might also add that we could pay for such New Deal programs by severly cutting our massive military spending budget (we spend more money on the military that the next 10 biggest, richest Nations on Earth put together).

These wars are driving our economy into the ground. So let's end these immoral wars, reduce our military size, bring home our troops stationed in over 130 countries home to their own Country where they belong, and lets slash that massive military/Pentagon Budget and start putting people to work in good paying Government green and infrastructure projects.

We have the money to do it. It sure is there and being wasted in our futile empire building efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I guess the question is which do we prefer? Do we want a healthy economy with lots of good paying jobs? Or do we want to spend away our National wealth in empire building?

We can also reduce our spending on the massive American Prison/Industrial complex, reduce prison size ( the US is the number 1 prison country in the World with more of its citizens in prison that any other nation on Earth as a percentage of its population). By stopping such foolish practices as putting marijuana users in prison and by emphasizing reform over punishment, eliminating mandatory sentencing, reducing sentences, and significantly increasing funding of half-way houses with emphasis placed on easing the ex-con's transition into society, we could find a treasure trove of wealth available to be spent on Government work programs which put people to work, create new businesses, create new private sector jobs, and significantly increase consumption, improve the infrastructure, and rebuild our Nation.

The money to put our people to work, rebuild our infrastructure, and put our Nation in the lead in green technology production and manufacturing, and save our economy certainly is already there in the budget. The only question we have to decide is that of priorities.

Staying the course is not a viable option.

Economies do not always self-correct no matter how long a period we are looking at and our economy could very well end up permanently disabled.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jul 1, 2010, at 9:06 PM

rr3yv0

The only economists who are concerned with hyperinflation in a deflationary period are those economists who are self-taught lol. These 2 events are mutually exclusive.

Fortunately, yes we can control inflation rather easily with monetary policy.

But for now it would be best to stimulate consumption significantly and that requires direct government hiring to permanent, good paying green jobs and infrastructure rebuilding. These could later be phased into private sector jobs.

We have options but one thing is for sure...doing nothing is not one of them.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jul 1, 2010, at 6:38 PM

okr I don't know how you figure our deficit spending is not large enough. How large should it be? My household doesn't run like that.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jul 1, 2010, at 12:06 PM

Nanadot will you think the same thing when nothing is fixed in a "magical" 36 months? According to your assessment of the current administration the 80's should be blamed on the Carter administration surely you couldn't expect one man to fix that mess in 8 years!! Just because I think actions should have consequences doesn't mean it will happen I don't have that power. I don't think Obama is responsible for everything but our government needs to give us the tools to prosper and have a better life not the be enslaved by the tax code, social security, health care or the insurmountable debt incurred by our government. The reason this country is so great is because we have bowed to no one and if that changes our lifestyles will change. That is nothing for us to feel quilty for.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jul 1, 2010, at 12:04 PM

News I have read some economist think with runaway government spending and printing of money that we could see a period of deflation followed by possibly hyperinflation what do you think? Don't you think government employment could get to a point we don't have enough of the private sector to support it?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jul 1, 2010, at 11:40 AM

News I probably have not said it directly, but I really appreciate your insight into economics. You have done a nice job on this blog sharing, and explaining.

I think that the "double dip" depression is just around the corner.

Firstly our deficit spending to curtail wave one was not large enough, and in many cases was misdirected. There is no way that Obama, and Congress are going to get their acts together to provide any significant additional stimulation.

Secondly the European Union is in the midst of retrenchment so will not stimulate anything. Their "cost cutting" is in effect curling into a fetal ball. In our world ecomomy as goes one, so go all.

Scares the hell out of me.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Jul 1, 2010, at 10:49 AM

rr3yv0

Actually I agree with the article and my colleague to a point.

I think the Obama attempt to correct the economy has been a dismal failure in terms of turning the depression into a recovery. He never used proper Keynesian principles at all. We know from the empirical evidence that only Keynesian economic policies can lift a capitalist economy from a major depression. I wrote extensively about my concerns about the Obama plan long before his stimulus package ever passed the Congress. In it I criticized his plan for its lack of direct government hiring of all the unemployed to permanent jobs rebuilding the infrastructure. This is the kind of Federal Spending Multiplier we need in force right now. Consumption would increase dramatically spawning many new businesses, even more consumers, and a healthy economy. There will be need later on to cool things down using monetary policy, but by keeping a good eye on inflation and being prepared to take the proper monetary policies at the first sign of inflation we can keep that in check fairly easily.

Clearly, the worst possible thing we could do is to return to the Neoclassical economic policies that created this economic depression. A return to conservative economic policies such as we have seen from the conservatives since the days of Reagan would, in my professional opinion, put the final nail in our National economic coffin.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jul 1, 2010, at 7:01 AM

Obamanomics is wimpy. We don't need more stimulus we need LEADERSHIP.

http://www.redstate.com/congresswomancat...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jul 1, 2010, at 6:31 AM

new and nanadot

I see in your post you praise and criticize. At first news I thought you were describing yourself. And then nanadot slams Reagan and what Obama has inherited but neither one of you offer what is happening now that this regime is doing to improve jobs or the economy. news a man of your intellect should be able to do that. But I hear nothing but what is wrong with the past or what is wrong with the author of a particular article. What is happening now that is going to improve the future? I hear nothing. What is happening now to improve our economy? I hear nothing. I think we need to look at the incompetence in Washington right now and decide individually what we need to do about it in November.

CAPITALISM IS BOSS!!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jul 1, 2010, at 5:15 AM

NanaDot

I checked the qualifications of the author of the article rr3yv0 posted that appeared in the WallStreet Journal.

The author has impeccable credentials and is clearly is a well qualified economist.

Unfortunately, despite his qualifications, he is a standard Neoclassical economist. Not only did the author agree with Reagan's Neoclassical economic approach -- he actually wrote the policies himself lol.

I have read the article and mostly its just this author cheer-leading his own economic policies. He leaves out a lot of data that casts great doubt onto his claimed accomplishments such as the 10+ unemployment rates and extrememly high interest rates they used to cool the economy down with. Yes it eventually self-corrected but their policies probably made that small depression last longer than it should have.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jul 1, 2010, at 4:43 AM

"Study: US media redefined torture after US started practicing it"

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0630/media-r...

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Jun 30, 2010, at 7:31 PM

Why Obamanomics Has Failed

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jun 30, 2010, at 4:47 PM

My point is made!!!Thanks.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jun 30, 2010, at 7:24 AM

Also, having a degree from an Ivy League school doesn't automatically cause the holder to suddenly begin thinking rationally.

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Jun 30, 2010, at 12:05 AM

I have never given much attention to college degrees. Why should I when people like George W. Bush can get a degree from Yale?

You don't have to be rational to have an Ivy League degree. You don't even have to be smart, and one certainly doesn't make you right.

Some who didn't have a degree, but somehow found a thinking cap elsewhere:

Abraham Lincoln, Samuel Clemens, Will Rogers.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Jun 29, 2010, at 11:45 PM

Yale Fellow "Obama Most Radical US President Ever"

http://newzeal.blogspot.com/2010/06/yale...

Maybe you on the left will listen to this intellectual hey he's got a Harvard Phd.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Jun 29, 2010, at 8:20 PM

But it's true!!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Jun 29, 2010, at 8:09 PM

Ah, poor Rush. Evidently he's feeling deprived after having his drug supply curtailed while all those who don't deserve to be alive get everything.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Jun 29, 2010, at 7:31 PM

"The leftists got their 'clean, articulate' president. They got every policy wonk in power they ever wanted. They've got all the agenda. They got health care. They got stimulus to create jobs. They got people in homes that can't afford 'em. It's supposed to be utopia out there, and it isn't working." -Rush

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Jun 29, 2010, at 7:02 PM

But Wally...It's not nice uv em to talk like that!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Jun 29, 2010, at 12:32 PM

Golly Beav...heck if I know.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Jun 29, 2010, at 9:38 AM

The Huffington Post article further exemplifies the arrogance of this regime. Why do they curse all the time?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Jun 29, 2010, at 6:05 AM

I guess there is a Twilight Zone movie playing somewhere, a continuous loop that has Bush as president and someone is actually watching it.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Jun 29, 2010, at 5:59 AM

nanadot loves to state over and over about a PAST president and how he supposedly lied and etc... YET she fails to see the LIES that Obama continually puts forth and how he is the cause of divisive politics by pushing policies that the majority of the people do not want....

And Huff Po is not really a good source for 'unbiased' information. LOL

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Jun 29, 2010, at 5:26 AM

Slater I disagree these people work for us the voters and we should comment on their actions as they are reported to us. I was commenting on what is happening now I thought Bush was unprofessional with his comment but despite popular belief he is no longer president. I mean we had a president that the media kept telling us character didn't matter I'm sorry character does matter and as an elected official we should hold them to a higher standard. Their human they make mistakes but mistakes have consequences.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Jun 28, 2010, at 6:53 PM

rr3, the point is that neither you nor I were on the scene, so we should have no comment. I didn't make a comment when Bush called that reporter a name, and I didn't make a comment this time, except to respond to your source material.

It seems that you're determined to put your spin on things regardless of the presence or absence of the facts.

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Jun 28, 2010, at 1:38 PM

Slater I didn't refer to brainwashed as a name so much as a state of mind and I don't recall calling Obama ungodly he does a fine job of portraying his character all by himself. Biden's job and any job where you meet the public has the responsibilty of being professional at all times. What he done wasn't professional and he should be called on it and it hasn't been the first time it just shows the arrogance of our public officials. If I treated my customers like that first of all I wouldn't have very many customers and second I wouldn't have a job very long but people still elect these people and for what? As for respect for my elders I was raised to have that and on this post we don't know who is an elder and some don't deserve respect it is something earned not a right just because someone gets old.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Jun 28, 2010, at 1:11 PM

rr3, what prompted you to call Cheetah "brainwashed," or to call Obama "ungodly?"

I agree that calling people names serves no purpose, regardless of the "name" used.

It seems you didn't grasp the meaning of my post, so here's another example:

Show respect for your elders.

That advice has multiple meanings, and would most definitely apply in the case of the custard shop manager, who I'm sure isn't 70 years old, having a conversation with Biden, in the store or out on the sidewalk.

Incidentally, Biden has been a mamber of a pre-eminent "smartass" club long enough to know one when he sees or hears one. Wouldn't you agree?

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Jun 28, 2010, at 9:52 AM

So Slater you're saying if it is warranted it is ok. There are higher moral standards on this blog then the office of vice-president. Really!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Jun 28, 2010, at 7:33 AM

Hey great news... they downgraded the 1st Quarter data to show that the previously estimated economic growth was not 3% or more but was really 2.7% which was dramatically slower than the previous quarter which was about 5.6%

I wonder how the economy would look without the 100s of thousands of Census bureau workers that are temp jobs....

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Jun 28, 2010, at 3:26 AM

Hey OKR,

My hearing must be getting bad, because I can't understand half of what Chucky is saying.

It's just as well, you say? :)

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Jun 28, 2010, at 12:10 AM

Here is one more "Mock The Dummy". To me these stupid things are as irresistable as potato chips. Truth is they probably have no more value. Oh well. http://www.youtube.com/user/MockTheDummy...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jun 27, 2010, at 11:37 PM

As promised, more "Mock The Dummy".

http://www.youtube.com/user/MockTheDummy...

http://www.youtube.com/user/MockTheDummy...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jun 27, 2010, at 11:27 PM

rr3yv0 ,

How does anything in your last post compare to waging two illegal wars, torture and treason?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Jun 27, 2010, at 11:03 PM

rr3, does Biden's remark differ from Bush's on-air remark to Cheney, calling some reporter a "major-league a****le?

The Fox News report didn't give us enough of the exchange for us to know if maybe Biden's remark was warranted - if, in fact, he actually said that.

This is another example of what I said the other day about the decline in manners and decorum. That shop manager is certainly entitled to his/her opinions and is entitled to disagree with his/her understanding of our current tax code, but (s)he should show some self-control when speaking to the vice president.

Conversely, holding a public office doesn't give that individual the right to call someone a name. I'm merely pointing out that there's a time and place for everything, and badgering the vice president across a store counter is not the time nor the place.

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Jun 27, 2010, at 9:55 PM

Jo is a fan of the Bill Moyers Journal program on PBS, wherein Moyers reports on the incompatible nature of the elements making up our society and our democracy.

Here's a link to a video and transcript of the Bill Moyers PBS broadcast April 30, 2010 about populist ideals and the power of the people to effect change:

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/043020...

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Jun 27, 2010, at 3:02 PM

Perfect example of the leadership of our country.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/06/...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Jun 27, 2010, at 8:18 AM

We're be ruled by a 20% liberal minority and like the health care they passed a finance reform that is 2000+ pages. Oh but we got to pass it to see what is in it. Would you buy a car just to see how it drives? Two of the people Dodd and Frank that caused are financial mess came up with this to fix it??? Someone said this is the most truthful president we have ever had I guess if you tell lies long enough people will believe it.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Jun 26, 2010, at 7:25 PM

taxedpayer: I think you're right on the money about Diamond's book pointing to resources management as key to stability. Whether it's the environmental resources or financial resources or any others, I think any diversion of those resources into unproductive enterprises, like war, as OKR mentions, are the problem. In the case of the Easter Islanders, for example, it was partly their devotion to the statutes that long survived them that brought their civilization to an end. Whether it's people (sent to war), trees (chopped down to burn) or money (spent before it's earned), wasting resources is self-defeating. And much of what we are wasting is not renewable.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sat, Jun 26, 2010, at 11:10 AM

I don't know if this matters much, but just fyi, Diamond's book is really addressing the failure of societies to thrive, to even exist. And that, he says, is linked to resource management. It sounds like the conversation has shifted more to the ability of *empires* to thrive, which is kind of different, I think.

For example, the Roman empire failed, and the Greek empire failed, but societies have thrived along the Mediterranean rim, with various success, before, during and after those empires.

And I think Oklahoma Reader is onto something when he points to military overreach as a key factor in the decline of empires.

-- Posted by taxedpayer on Sat, Jun 26, 2010, at 7:33 AM

I wish now I had paid closer attention in school especialy civics class.

I am curious how much of this mess is accutally the presidents past or present? I thought they only had so much power,isn't it mostly the house of representives and senet that passes laws and takes care of bussiness?

I'm not gonna lie I havn't voted since Ross Pero any politian whose mouth is movin is usually lying.

Also I must apoligize for needing a civics lesson I realize this probably isn't the place for it but if a person don't know they don't know, and I'm man enough to admit when I don't know.

-- Posted by midniterebel on Sat, Jun 26, 2010, at 2:49 AM

Mrxray don't you think that history reveals that nations fail when they over extend themselves in wars of empire? Rome for instance? England for another (see Boer War), and more recently Germany, and Japan as a result of their over reaching that ended with their defeat in WWII.

I don't think that the unending wars that we start can be over estimated as the primary cause of our economic difficulty. We simply can not stand that constant unproductive drain on our economy.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Jun 26, 2010, at 1:56 AM

Oh my... So many things to comment about so I know I will miss most of them.

I am not even going to attempt to direct specific comments at specific people because there is too much to remember and I am too lazy to scroll up and down to figure it all out.

The Problem with the LEFT and the thinking that Obama's election was a mandate to move the nation WAY to the left and a much bigger, more intrusive government is to ignore the Bush factor. People, for whatever their reasons, wanted anyone but Bush. But when McCain was the Repub alternative they voted for the new and UNKNOWN and UNPROVEN VERY short term Senator from Chicago. Not only did they not want Bush, then did not want another Clinton. The hope and change and the propaganda machine of the Obama/ACORN/Union organizers was under estimated. All this worked together so that the person elected has no real experience in actually running a business, running a governmental institution or even being a Senator for very long. He had no military background and the media, for whatever the reason, refused to delve into Obama's background and show America who he associated with and who his mentors were and they allowed Obama to hide pertinent college documents and other information that would allow the voters to really know where Obama was coming from. All of this worked in concert to allow an inexperienced immature person with a HUGE ego that believes that if only he were king he could fix all the problems of our nation and probably the world.

Yet he has NO respect from the other world leaders of from the leading villians in the World like the leaders from Iran, North Korea, Russia, China and Venezuela. He has no real experience with Foriegn policy and is a very weak President in this regards. He shows he has no real leadership skills every time there is an incident or crisis.

So when thinking about the direction the nation may or may not be headed, the left looks at the Obama election as a mandate to move the nation WAY to the left with HUGE inefficient government that is gathering more and more power instead.

Someone even used the fact that young people were active in the last election to show that the nation wants to move way to the left but do you really think that as more and more young people are unable to find a job that they will remain naive enough to re-elect the very president and admin that is causing our nation to be unable to recover from our recession/depression?

If ALL people on this website were honest we would ALL want less interference from the government so that we could use our own resources of our own gain so we could prepare better for our own retirement and to help our children have a good start on their lives. At the rate we are going now, we are being forced to contribute more and more money to the government which is fraud filled, based on back door political deals and bribery from special interest money. Every LAW is based on behind the door deals that only causes more fraud, more harmful unintended consequences that harm our economy and harm our hard working middle class and poor people. They are already saying that health care bill and the Doctor's fix and are WAY more expensive than they estimated and we have not even implemented those progams yet. They are already saying that because we have spent so much money and wasted so much money that we are not going to have a high Value added tax that will ONLY harm the poor and our economy even more as the wealthy/businesses owners pass the their costs in this area on to the consumer.

England's VAT was just raised to 20% Can you imagine everytime you go to the store and spent 100 bucks you had to pay an additional 20 bucks just to pay for the ineptness of the government and their horrible spending habits? How about all the nations in the world that are in an economic crisis...the EU is in trouble and so many other nations...

Someone also said that nations failed when they mismanaged their resources... however, if you go back into history most major nations failed because they changed from a country based on strength and power to an enlightened nation trying to provide all things to all people and their ability to gather resources to protect their nation was reduced to the point that they were eventually taken over by some other nation or there was a revolution.

-- Posted by mrxray on Fri, Jun 25, 2010, at 6:44 PM

You know The only way the republicans can keep taking back any of the seat's they lost the last Election,is the same hard core bunch that stays with them no matter what they do! Obama has too get the young people back to the Poll's this time! Also in the Nov. Election.We have to keep them motivated!It was a have to thing ,in the Presidential election! The majority of the American People can't be that stupid too keep this up, or can they?

-- Posted by Jo on Fri, Jun 25, 2010, at 6:03 PM

I've attended schools both public and private. There was no praying at the public schools I attended in my early years in the U.S. and on a military installation in Libya, unless you count reciting the pledge of allegiance, which after 1954, began to include "under God." At my Catholic grade and high schools, we went to Mass every day and had religion classes every day, too, which is why we had a much longer day at school than the public school kids.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Fri, Jun 25, 2010, at 5:28 PM

okr I don't have a problem with any religion we should have the freedom to worship as we choose but it seems everone gets a pass but christians.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Jun 25, 2010, at 3:23 PM

Folks tell me that God loves me, and I'm o.k. with that. I do begin to get confused when they add "but if you don't believe that God loves you, you will burn in hell".

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Jun 25, 2010, at 1:16 PM

rr3 do you encourage restoring those prayer rights to Jewish folk, Buddists, and others?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Jun 25, 2010, at 12:44 PM

Slater you are right prayer was optional as it should have been but now it can be illegal unless it is initiated by a student and they try to stop that too. We see the discrimination regarding anything patriotic or christian.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jun 24, 2010, at 10:42 PM

Jimmy Carter must be smiling he is no longer considered the worst president in the history of our country.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jun 24, 2010, at 10:36 PM

this is what is wrong with our country why would a 10 year old not say the pledge because of his stand on gay rights. he claims "all men are created equal" in the pledge is not true because gays do not have the same rights which they do they want special rights because they are gay hey maybe I should have special rights because I'm conservative.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/06/24/yea...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jun 24, 2010, at 5:16 PM

Indeed they do, Philemon. Maybe it's a well-learned lesson of determination and perseverance.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Jun 24, 2010, at 2:18 PM

Slater,

Maybe there is hope since those salmon in your image aren't actually leaping in vain. It may be a huge struggle and take time, but many actually reach their goal upstream.

-- Posted by Philemon on Thu, Jun 24, 2010, at 1:17 PM

I suppose we shouldn't be suprised by this kind of thing taking place during the oil "cleanup":

http://license.icopyright.net/user/viewF...

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Jun 24, 2010, at 11:52 AM

Hate is a pretty strong word. I vividly remember my parents getting onto me about using it, and at the time I didn't understand their meaning, but now that I'm older (and maybe a TAD wiser) I know what they were meaning when they discouraged me from using the word.

By the way, the link doesn't display properly on my computer. My visual disability requires a customized color scheme, and that creates compatibility issues in various ways.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Jun 24, 2010, at 10:02 AM

rr3, I guess prayer in school was selective, because when I started the first grade in 1947 I don't recall one instance where we had class prayers. We did recite the Pledge of Allegiance, but no praying.

That was at Slater, and that's why I say perhaps it's always been optional.

I can understand your dismay, and I can only say that the days of banner-carrying and meaningful crusading probably ended with the demise of MLK, Jr. Today's examples of collective behavior don't have widespread appeal like the March on Washington or the Million Man March, for instance.

When I think about what it would take to restore a sense of decency and dignity to our society I have the mental image of the salmon swimming upriver and vainly leaping against the current and the falls.

Even if it were possible to turn back time, there wouldn't be enough votes for it. Besides, wouldn't that be going against God's plan?

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Jun 24, 2010, at 9:52 AM

THE 100 AMERICANS THE LEFT HATES THE MOST

http://media.glennbeck.com/docs/100ameri...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jun 24, 2010, at 7:01 AM

okr we used to have prayer in the schools don't you remember.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Jun 24, 2010, at 5:20 AM

rr3 your statement: "As far as young girls getting pregnant yes that has always happened but it wasn't because of abstinence."

Thank you for sharing your inference that girls must have sex to become pregnant. Finally we agree on something.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Jun 24, 2010, at 2:15 AM

"We have been too often disappointed by the optimism of the American leaders both in Vietnam and Washington to have faith any longer in the silver linings they find in the darkest clouds," "It seems now more certain than ever that the bloody experience of Vietnam is to end in a stalemate." Walter Kronkite, February 1968.

Who will be the Kronkite regarding the Afghanistan war?

Second question: Is it possible that General McChrystal broke with what he certainly knew to be military code of conduct because it was the only way to get out of an untenable position with his actual military reputation intact? Bear in mind that aside from the Rolling Stone article, he had stated recently that things were not going well in Afghanistan.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Jun 24, 2010, at 2:06 AM

rr3: Once again I gotta ask. Just when was it that God was in the schools of Marshall, and how was that manifested? What in the schools is now done differently than when God was in the schools?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Jun 24, 2010, at 1:18 AM

okr I'm sure if you could dispute my points you would not pass up the chance. I wasn't referring to the 40's or 50's I'm not near that old. I'm not referring to a perfect world because we have never had that. As far as young girls getting pregnant yes that has always happened but it wasn't because of abstinence. It just seems now we don't want to teach them that it is honorable to wait till your married and that is what the bible teaches that just takes the fun out of life doesn't it. The only way to get back to people being trustworthy and honorable is to put God back in our schools, our country and our lives. Sin is the problem and we are all born into it but we have the free will to decide if we stay in it.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jun 23, 2010, at 6:01 PM

Ah, Afghanistan. Another of those places where we are only winning because we choose to believe it is so. Delusion as medicine to treat real pain, and anguish only gives symptomatic relief, and then only a while.

McChrystal is out, Petraeus is in. Once again we are playing the revolving generals game. Does anyone remember Viet Nam? Does anyone recall all the good generals whose illustrious careers were ended because they faced an unrealistic, and impossible task? Guess not. http://www.politicsdaily.com/

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jun 23, 2010, at 2:13 PM

rr3 I am not at all surprised by your response. I could dispute many of the points you called to our attention, but what's the use? You would not believe a word I said.

You my friend, and this is only my opinion, belong to that body of people that believes that we once long ago, and faraway lived a wonderful live wherein most all was right with our country, especially small town, and rural America. Usually it is framed specifically as the nineteen forties, and nineteen fifties, though many (unspecifically) have the feel that it was roughly the first half of the twentieth century.

Believe that if you will, but don't tell that to the black people of Marshall who were forced to ride a bus at least sixty miles a day to go to school. Don't tell that to all the children molested by Catholic priests, and others, then left helpless because such matters were swept under the rug. Oh sex offenders were next door alright, you just didn't know it.

One other point. Abstinence? Are you kidding? If you grew up around Marshall in those glory days of the nineteen fifties you surely saw how many girls became pregnant on blankets with their boy friends of a hot summer night.

I really don't want to burst your bubble, even if I could. If you are comforted by believing in that alleged past time in America so be it, but I gotta ask, how do you think we are going to get back to what I call never was, and you call history?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jun 23, 2010, at 1:49 PM

okr I disagree with you on what is hurting our way of life it is moral decline. I remember when you didn't have to lock your door to your house or your car, if someone was broke down on the highway you didn't hesitate to stop and help, my parents remember when you could go for a walk in downtown KC after dark, you didn't worry about one of your kids disappearing forever from the playground, you didn't have to worry if your neighbor was a sex offender or pedophile, if you lost your wallet it would most likely be returned with all the money in it, we take money from producers and give to non-producers and call it entitlements, we take money from the poor and call it the lottery, we legalize murder and call it abortion its a womens right, we want to take away the definition of marriage and call them civil unions so we can feel good about ourself, we don't want to criticize a religion unless it is christian, we call a terrorist attack a manmade disaster, we have people here illegally and we want to grant them amnesty, if we don't like a corporation we keep throwing enough lawsuits at them to drive them to bankruptcy, if you own property you have to have liability insurance even for trespassers, we don't want to let a good disaster distract from our political agenda, we have Islamic Radicals attack us but we can't call them that or profile them, we can't deport illegals from Mexico because we may be profiling, Mexican drug cartels take over parts of the border and when we take action we get sued by the ACLU who's civil liberties are they for, when I was in school if you got in trouble you got punished at school and at home now you get expelled and get to stay at home by yourself to do as you please and we call that punishment I call that a vacation, we don't want to teach in school the creation theory along with the evolution theory because creation makes more sense and we can't do what makes sense, but we can teach about the gay lifestyle, we teach children about birth control and the proper use of condoms instead of abstinence which works 100% of the time when practiced, instead we promote girls to be on birth control as young as 10 and buy condoms for all the good boys and girls then we wonder why they get pregnant at 10 or 12 or 14 but that's ok because they can murder the baby legally and suffer for it the rest of their life, corpartism may be a problem but we have other problems that are far worse.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Jun 23, 2010, at 12:40 PM

Thanks upsedaisy those were some of the reasons I made the statement that Nixon was to the left of Obama.

Slater good to see you back.

Some of the other reasons are even more telling. For instance in 1971 he imposed a wage/price freeze. That sort of governmental intrusion into private enterprise is anathema to the right. Obama would not dare to take similar action today.

Another difference is their respective approach to the wars transpiring when they took office. No troop reduction under Obama, just shuffle, deal again. When Nixon took office in 1969 there were well over half a million troops in Vietnam. By the end of his first year that was down to 475,000, by the end of his second year 334,000, by the end of his third year 157,000, and they were all out within his term in office. In no way will Obama de-escalate at that rate. Surely no one will disagree that get the troops out was an anthem of the left then, as it is an anthem of the left now.

Our main in fact single great "enemy" in Nixon's day was the Soviet Union. Nixon worked to improve relations with them. Can you image the furor of the public today if Obama should "go soft" on our hated enemy Iran, by working diligently to improve relations with them?

What is usually thought to be the crowning achievement of his presidency was his good will trip to China which opened those "Closed Doors". What if Obama announced a good will visit to North Korea to open those closed doors? The right would scream, impeach him, he's a traitor! The left would applaud.

I could go on, but I believe that is enough to make my point that Republican Nixon was to the left of Democrat Obama.

There is a larger, and more important point proven by these facts. That is, despite all the breast beating, hair pulling, and wails from the right, especially the fundamentalist right, our government, executive, legislative, and judicial has shifted center right. Nixon's policies were largely considered middle of the road. The same policies if pursued by Obama would invoke howls of radical left, government intrusion, and rank socialism.

My, my, don't we forget our comparitive history.

Someday, sometime, a significant majority may figure out that all this time the right has been crying wolf, and that all this time our country has in fact been drifting to the right.

The real culprit that is killing our way of life is corporatism. The antidote is populism.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jun 23, 2010, at 12:21 AM

rr3, thanks for your remarks. I agree that oftentimes people will attack others simply because that's the easy way if, as you say, there's no intent to have a rational exchange of ideas.

When I'm assessing an issue or situation I try to identify the variables making up the psychology of the issue. This approach helps me develop a better understanding of how and why the players interact the way they do. I don't learn much, but it's the way I've always approached most everything.

I believe this fall will be a bell ringer for many of the deadbeats on both sides of the aisle in Washington. The only form of control we have left is our vote, so let's all vote early and often!! :)

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Jun 22, 2010, at 11:48 PM

Interesting commentary on Nixon. He was in favor of public health insurance. His family was very poor. One of his brothers died as a very young man of tuberculosis and Nixon felt it was due to the lack of funds for his care. He also was a strong proponent of birth control.

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Tue, Jun 22, 2010, at 9:08 PM

Slater I would like to commend you on your most recent post. Some on here only attack the others opinion because they don't have an opinion except that they don't agree with yours. I want to applaud you for making your point without downplaying other opinions even when you disagree. Thanks

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Jun 22, 2010, at 8:19 PM

OKR, in what way(s) do you see Nixon being to the left of Obama?

That's an interesting notion.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Jun 22, 2010, at 6:52 PM

Obama by the way is a centrist, not of the true left. Do you think a true lefty would ever have sucked up to the right as Obama has? No way! Do you think a real progressive/populist would have continued these empiricist wars? Not a chance.

The only reason that he is considered to be a leftist by any is because of the centrist contrast with the Republican positions which are farther to the right than they have ever been in history. Even Nixon was to the left of Obama for crying out loud.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Jun 22, 2010, at 6:10 PM

rr3, I've spoken generally in most cases, and my words can be vague. I was thinking about the conversation on the other page about clear communication, and it's made me realize that I'm guilty of not speaking clearly, so I'll see if I can highlight my outlook on the actions of our government, and maybe people in general.

First off, I'll say that I don't favor either political party - they both smell for a variety of reasons, and until my assessment of their performance tells me they're working for the good of the country and not for themselves, I'll continue to believe they both stink.

Obama seems to have turned out to be just another politician, but I believe it's due mainly to his naivete. I think he believed he could restore the idea of "loyal opposition" and bring the parties together for a united effort to solve the many problems, but when he realized the extent of the schism between the two parties, he's given up trying to be the facilitator and has taken on the typical role of a politician. It's too bad, because he had a distinct appeal around the world and had the opportunity to close the gap that has developed between the US and other major countries.

I see a big change in the way people view the office of the president. When I said that people don't always pay attention to what the president says, I mean that respecting the office has now shifted to disrespecting the person who occupies the office, and this hasn't happened overnight. It's been building for a long time, maybe dating back to the Nixon years. I used Hayward's behavior before Congress as an example of how some people now ignore the president. Personalities have always factored into things, of course, but now it seems that liking or disliking another person is primary in the outcome of all government activity. This shift has been so subtle that it's difficult to identify its beginning, but to me it's more a societal ailment that is easily apparent in the workings of the federal government. Over time the attitude has moved from doing what's good for all first and foremost to doing what's good for the individual first and foremost.

I've gone on enough here, and you should now see "where I'm coming from." I don't spend a lot of time looking microscopically. Doing so puts one at risk of missing the point of the bigger picture, much like listening to soundbites does. If you walk down the street always looking straight ahead, you may get run down while crossing at an intersection.

You might call me a liberal, but you'd be making a mistake to do so. I'm a better fit for the humanitarian label. In spite of the direction attitudes appear to be taking, I believe in the inherent goodness of humankind, that right conquers might, even though this belief is being sorely tested.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Jun 22, 2010, at 9:31 AM

Slater now I see where you're coming from just like you said "Just because it's the president talking doesn't always mean much to some people".

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Jun 22, 2010, at 6:32 AM

People misinform themselves by not absorbing the entire text of an interview or speech. Instead, they choose to lift passages which, by themselves, can take on a meaning contrary to the meaning of the whole.

That's what soundbites generally do, and that's why I don't pay any attention to them.

Without reading the entire transcript of that conversation Obama was having, I have no way of knowing the context of his remark about coal regulations and skyrocketing rates. I hardly believe he or any other president would purposely allow rates to skyrocket to fund an agenda, as MrXray stated.

You've fallen prey to a news media "massage."

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Jun 21, 2010, at 9:28 PM

soundbite technique???????? Obama's words not mine straight from the horses mouth so to speak.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Jun 21, 2010, at 8:53 PM

rr3, I'm not a fan of the soundbite technique.

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Jun 21, 2010, at 7:07 PM

We have a moratoriam on off shore drilling for the US because it is unsafe but we are loaning a Brazilian oil company $2 billion for off shore drilling at over 14,000 feet. What's wrong with this picture!!!!!!!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Jun 21, 2010, at 5:09 PM

Slater evidently you are not listening.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlTxGHn4s...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Jun 21, 2010, at 5:05 PM

MrXray, no I do not recall Obama publicly stating that energy prices will skyrocket in order to fund his agenda. What I've heard and read is that the dwindling supply of fossil fuels forces the world to look to alternative sources for energy. The oil companies dictate price and have a free hand at setting whatever price they arbitrarily choose.

I wasn't arguing against the substance of Hayward's remark about Americans filing bogus claims, because that certainly will be evident in some percentage of total claims filed. My point is that it's all about attitude. His "I want my life back" exemplifies his general attitude, along with the perception that he's annoyed by having to bear the responsibility for his company's disregard of personnel and operational safety. He either doesn't connect with the reality of the situation, or he's indifferent to it.

I'm inclined to think that the perception of the White House attitude is much like that expressed by Hayward. Obama has delegated the oversight responsibility to others, which he should do, but at the same time he or his closest advisors should have their thumb on things, making certain the government is doing all it can to insure that BP is living up to its responsibility. Much easier said than done, of course. Just because it's the president talking doesn't always mean much to some people.

Also consider the potential hyprocisy of any adverse action against BP by the administration, while it lets the Wall Street/Banking crooks off scot free, plus loaning them billions of dollars to continue their crookedness.

Many times the actions of our government could be better directed if it would adopt some of the considerations us commoners have to offer. If honesty and integrity could somehow be restored to the federal government (well, all levels of government along with the corporate sector), life in this country could be greatly improved on those two factors alone.

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Jun 21, 2010, at 1:34 PM

okr the visionary plan to take us forward from the left was promised in the last election and is not being delivered should we expect 2012 to be any different?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Jun 21, 2010, at 12:31 PM

rr3 and xray: The right has painted itself into a corner. The result is hardly any African Americans, and few Hispanics identifying with the cause.

The strongest identity that is exhibited by conservatives is that of rednecks waving guns, and misspelled placards at wacko rallies. Rallies of ignorance where people believe that the Flintstones is historically correct because they have a pet dinosaur. Where people assert that the world is six thousand years old. The conservative movement has allowed these to be its vanguard.

The conservative movement exhibited its irrelevancy in a twenty first century world by its telling group of aspirants for the Republican presidential nomination in 2008. On stage together they looked like a group of attendants at a mortician's convention. A group of good old white boys. Is that the best that the Republican party can offer to America today? An America whose demographic is changing as fast as the Arctic climate. Where is the appeal to people of color that will soon enough be the majority in this country?

Instead of looking forward they yearn for some never existent perfect Ozzie and Harriet world of the 1950s. They look back to never was, and promise for the future what never can be.

No doubt they will make gains in the upcoming 2010 congressional elections. That will be a temporary gain because change remains in the air. The American people are disillusioned by Obama because he promised change, and has not delivered it, nor even fought for it with vigor. It is highly likely in my opinion that he will not be the Democratic nominee for president in 2012. Believe me when I say that the left is, at its core, as dissatisfied with him as is the right. He will encounter a primary challenge from the left. Twenty twelve will be a whole new ball game with a visionary plan to take us forward from the left countering lets go back to never land from the right.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Jun 21, 2010, at 1:45 AM

Okr it amazes me that you know that someone that didn't get elected would not have the depth or intelligence to deal with our dire circumstances. What we need now is a leader and your man is not one.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Jun 20, 2010, at 11:14 PM

See life is simple. If society would demand that people be respectful of others AND be responsible for their own life and the lives that they create, then we could solve almost all problems and people would work together.

But what our society has developed into is me me me and what can everyone else do for me. We have conditioned a HUGE portion of our people into expecting other people to provide for them and this LEARNED behavior has become socially acceptable and encouraged, instead of discouraged. That does not mean people should not help people out during times of crisis, nor does it mean that the government cannot provide TEMPORARY assistance to those who have some life obstacle or set back.

We have allowed the political environment to evolve into one where corruption and bribery and underhanded, backdoor deals are the norm, instead of honest debate and discussion which has led to more and more people who enter politics expecting to have an ELECTED office as a career and career politicians are a HORRIBLE aspect to our type of Government. This example is set at the highest levels and the power and the money today is such an incentive that people will do and say anything to get elected.

Then we have the whole social aspect where people who happen to be lucky enough to be movie or sports stars or other celebrities and they use the capitalist markets to become rich and then pay back the people who made them rich (the fans) by becoming drug addicts, alcoholics and the like and they expect to be able to be above the law and get away with anything, again setting horrible examples for our children.

It all boils down to a simple issue, personal responsibility. If each individual was willing to be responsible for their own lives and their own decisions and accepted both the rewards and the consequences of their decisions we could solve everything... because individuals make up business and politics and all other things in the world. People like to blame capitalism or other things for our failings but no system is better than the people that makes up the system. It is socially acceptable to NOT be responsible for your own life and expect the government or the community to bail you out.

I mean this goes down to the core decisions we make in life... do we drop out of school, not go to college, have children before we get out of school or before we have a career that would enable us to suppor those children, do we do drugs or drink.... we, as a society, bail our kids out instead of making them suffer the consequences, telling ourselves that

we should not ruin the rest of their lives by a few bad decisions" but this creates generation after generation people who expect society to ignore their bad decisions and instead bail them out. It is hard being personally responsible, sometimes embarassing to have people see that we made a mistake and are having to deal with the consequences BUT there are enough examples of people who make mistakes that overcome the bad consequences and succeed in life for us to foolishly tell ourselves that we should not be held accountable for a few bad decisions.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Jun 20, 2010, at 8:18 AM

OKR: You did do a good job in expressing your inability to understand the people on the right and their FREEDOM to hold their beliefs and opinions just as you hold your own....

Your OVER exaggerated statement of panicking over the devil weed and the like is just a GREAT example of your intolerance, the same type of thing that you are complaining about coming from those you disagree with.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Jun 20, 2010, at 8:03 AM

OKR: Not sure how pot smoking translates into the racial issue either.... but then you ignore the issue of the Dem party and the liberals NOT caring about minorities and ONLY caring about padding their numbers at the poll....

Any attempt to bring race into any political issue in recent times, especially pertaining to Obama is stupid rhetoric from the LEFT and from the Dems... ie the whole false arguement that if you dont agree with obama care or crap and tax or any other Obama agenda then you HAVE TO BE a redneck conservative racist... LOL

The Dems/left idea of how to win a debate is to bring up some OPINIONS for their side of the issue and when the public does not overwhelmingly buy into it then the first thing they do is pull the race card and call anyone who opposes anything from the left a racist... it is sad to see so many people that are supposed to care about this nation using this tactic... and it is even worse to see the common folk be so apathetic that they dont take the time to see what is being done.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Jun 20, 2010, at 7:59 AM

OKR: McCain and Palin did not get elected, so even bringing them up is irrelevant and contributes nothing to the issues at hand... but I would take the knowledge Palin has from living and being Governor of Alaska and her dealings with the oil industry over what Joe, the idiot, Biden is contributing to this problem.. LOL

As for Obama... he is just rapidly spending money we dont have at a rate that has never before been seen.. but then I guess debt means nothing to Americans as they have little grasp of even the basics of economics... all they want is instant gratification and someone to fullfil their need for individual bailouts when they screw up their own personal lives...

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Jun 20, 2010, at 7:55 AM

Mrxray, and rr3 as you wail on Obama/Biden there seems to be an inference that McCain/Palin would be on top of all these crises. Is that what you believe?

Obama was not my candidate in the Democratic primary as a matter of fact he was not in my top three. There are many things he has done, and even more frequently not done that in my opinion cause dismay.

However to be fair to the Obama/Biden Administration they have in my opinion faced more critical challenges than any administration in our nation's history. There is no Hercules to clean up the Augean stables, only frail humans to try to correct the results of our profligacy.

I just don't see that John McCain, and Sarah Palin have the depth, and intelligence to even begin to deal with our dire circumstances.

Things could be worse.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jun 20, 2010, at 2:16 AM

It is a conundrum Mrxray because all conservatives do not hold to libertarian values. How else do you explain the many selective intrusions advocated by so many on the right?

I'm talkin "God fearin" people here among others. Agin gamblin, gays, a woman's right to do what she wishes with her body, agin the right to buy alcohol, and of course sheer panic over the "devil weed".

Then there is the dismaying southern conservative tradition of resisting and refusing the same rights to people of color as are afforded whites.

Guess that proves my point so I won't run on with this list of examples. You get the idea.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jun 20, 2010, at 1:51 AM

rr3: I agree... he is a failure at leadership. Sitting back in the oval office and threatening to kick behind and being harsh on BP is NOT leadership.

A real leader would know how to draw out help from all areas instead of angering the very people with the ability to deal with this problem.

Does anyone really think that after he waited for so long to look into the oil problem in the gulf that his not faked anger is somehow impressive, or will somehow help deal with the problem?

The GOVERNMENT's red tap coming from all those government czars and obama flunkies has been preventing the people from dealing with this problem by stopping them from proactively protecting beaches and wetlands... example the Coast Guard stopped oil sucking barges until they could verify that the barges had fire extinquishers...instead of just quickly looking for the extinguishers, they had to research and contact the manufacturer of the barges... idiots, no common sense and those so stuck on the Dem party line or are blinded by the messiah cannot see or will not see the problems that THIS administration is and has been causing. OR the are ignoring the blatant ignoring of the DUE PROCESS in the condemnation of BP without a thorough investigation which cannot happen while the well is spewing out oil, or cannot happen until all the parts that failed are examined so that a REAL picture of the cause(s) of this disaster are found out....

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jun 19, 2010, at 11:36 PM

Let's pretend Obama is a repulican long enough to start the impeachment process for his incompetence and the incompetence of his regime put someone in that can actually LEAD!!!!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Jun 19, 2010, at 10:44 PM

Slater: maybe you forget.. Obama STATED PUBLICALLY that energy prices WILL Sky rocket out of necessity to push his agenda....

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jun 19, 2010, at 5:54 PM

Slater: Americans ARE more than likely to file fake and fraudulent claims...we have a proven track record... Thanks, your point is invalid on this issue.

I am perfectly aware of the Jones act... did you also know that even though the US offers its disaster aid FREELY, no strings attached during times of crisis to other nations, every nation except Mexico that offered their help with the oil spewage demanded that we PAY for that assistance? Another reason Obama should ignore them.

My point about the government failing in this disaster is that the red tape created after the government (meaning Obama) got fake angry enough to make his speeches has stopped and/or delayed many of the activities that were being used to contain and suck up the oil. Heck they were even saying they could not use things like HAY to absorb oil until the GOVERNMENT said it was ok.... They told towns, communities and states they could not deal with this crisis on their own.... they had to have government approval BEFORE they could take care of their own land.

Again, this incident should prove beyond a shadow of doubt that the government cannot take care of nor solve every problem... in fact, they should have corralled ALL oil companies even BP to obtain real experience and expertise on this matter.

Did you know that a guy from St Louis University was considered the leading academic mind on oil technology and engineering and Obama dismissed him from the think tank for this crisis simply because he had a publically but rationally and reasonably stated argument against abortion?

The government is politicizing this crisis and using it to push harmful crap and tax and green agenda instead of concentrating on the crisis.. again taking resources away from solving and containing the oil leakage.

We have the dog and pony show in Congress where the Dems can beat their chest in public BUT no where does our constitution say that we can prosecute and punish any person or entity without DUE PROCESS....

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jun 19, 2010, at 5:53 PM

OKR: If the right believes that the government should stay out of our personal lives unless we trample the rights of someone else how is that a conundrum for the conservative folks? If I believe that I have the right to smoke pot in my own house while not venturing outside my house until I was no longer high, then that is a conservative value correct?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jun 19, 2010, at 5:42 PM

MrXray, here's a prime reason why the Obama administration should put a saddle on BP:

"Hayward already angered many in the U.S. when he was quoted in the Times of London as suggesting that Americans were particularly likely to file bogus claims. He later shocked residents in Louisiana by telling them that no one wanted to resolve the crisis as badly as he did because "I'd like my life back."

Maybe this arrogance and indifference doesn't have the same meaning to you that it has for most people, but it should.

Two primary reasons prevented the White House from becoming more involved initially - the legislation passed in '93 after the Exxon Valdez dump, and the unfavorable climatic conditions occurring in the Gulf of Mexico at that time. Additionally, I'm inclined to think that BP made light of the situation either out of ignorance or more likely it was attempting to conceal the true nature of the disaster, since the company has a history of lax safety standards.

I hardly think the Obama administration is intent on "ruining" BP by using this disaster as an example of the evils of corporate management. If that's the consensus of public attitude, then BP has done it to itself and needs no outside help.

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Jun 19, 2010, at 12:55 PM

MrXray, here's a supply of new quirts to replace those you've worn out beating all those dead horses.

I find it interesting that those of your same mindset (including yourself) blame your government for "overreaching" its authority as you say, and then you turn around and blame your government when it doesn't act fast enough to suit you in responding to a situation. Do you know about the Jones Act, or have you dismissed its authority as a matter of convenience?

I'm not defending the government, I'm pointing out the fallacy of your logic.

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Jun 19, 2010, at 12:18 PM

All you folks on the far right have a quandary. You may wish to reevaluate your support of Ron Paul, and Sarah Palin.

Sarah says pot ain't all that bad, and she believes the police have more important things to do than bust pot smokers. http://www.aolnews.com/politics/article/...

Ron Paul? Totally against legal intrusion into pot smokers lives.

On second thought you may instead wish to reevaluate your opposition to pot smoking.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Jun 19, 2010, at 11:42 AM

BP may be all about profits... Obama is all about taking away profits and ruining our economy... lol

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jun 19, 2010, at 6:16 AM

OKR: Personally I am concerned with the rights of all people and even more concerned with the over reaching of the Obama admin in so many ways. The demanding that BP put up money "or else I am going to kick A$$" attitude is a direct affront on our constitutionally protected system of justice and rights in America. Anyone willing to sacrifice that in one instance, such as with BP, is willing to give it up in ANY and ALL instances thus rendering our constitution invalid and pointless.

But what the heck, who cares about the rule of law or the US constitution right?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jun 19, 2010, at 6:13 AM

xray I am not really concerned about the rights of BP because as corporate citizens their rights exceed those afforded you, or me.

I am not going to get in a discussion with you about the Afghanistan war because you are just going to trot out all that neocon cant which I have heard before. We may be so far apart on that one that discussion is fruitless. In my opinion it is an immoral war stimulated, and sustained by avarice. I am enraged that our poor soldiers are wounded, and dying because the rich, and powerful want to be richer, and more powerful.

I'm done.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Jun 19, 2010, at 2:48 AM

The trouble with war is that no one can predict the various trials and problems of executing that war. THEN when you add in the political idiocies of our politicians in DC and the unwillingness to actually fight the war to win, you make the execution of said war that much more problematic and possibily unwinable.

In war you CANNOT EVER realistically set a date to leave a nation. Heck, even first year military science students will tell you that if the enemy announces such a plan, they would just conduct actions to iritate their enemy and just wait until the resolve of their enemy's politicians forced their military to return home. THEN they would conduct aggressive maneuvers to regain control of their home nation and go back to business as usual.

-- Posted by mrxray on Fri, Jun 18, 2010, at 11:43 PM

OKR and others: I guess you are just willing to give up the right to a fair trial with the preceding investigation and presentation of evidence? You have already condemned BP and apparently know all of the facts surrounding this situation.....

-- Posted by mrxray on Fri, Jun 18, 2010, at 11:38 PM

I believe that in this nation, at least for now and until Obama and his thugs and the radical left have their way, we, even big huge businesses have the RIGHT, the LEGAL right to have a hearing and and to present their case BEFORE being punished and charged with crimes or restitution.

I agree that from what I can find that BP has a bad record of safety violations. BUT that also places the blame directly on governmental officials who accept donations from BP. I believe that Obama was in the top 2 to accept money from BP. Could this explain his initial delay in responding to this disaster and now his over the top 'fake anger' in his teleprompter speeches as of late?

Personally, I think that BP will be found liable because of faulty equipment and probably some bad policies or ignored problems with this well. BUT the Democrat party's solution is to have the dog and pony show in the chambers of Congress WHEN reality states that at this time there is NOT a legally proven cause or causes with provable actions or inactions deliberatly performed by BP. All we have are some information that show that several safety mechanisms failed in sequence. Do we have results that show WHY those parts failed? Do we know if there was a manufacturing problem that was outside of BP's realm of knowledge?

Basically, if you are favoring the hanging of BP at this time, without all of the facts and WITH all of the put-on anger from Obama and the Democrats who just love the camera to 'prove just how tough they are being on BP' then you are no different than the mobs that used to hang people without a trial...

-- Posted by mrxray on Fri, Jun 18, 2010, at 11:37 PM

Amen Cheesehead.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Jun 18, 2010, at 2:58 PM

Some people look for every chance they can to blame things on the government. What does BP cleaning up their own mess have to do with Obama ruining BP? This kind of political posturing is very repetitive. We just have to learn to ignore these right wing radical folks! If BP goes bankrupt then its their own fault not that of any politician.

-- Posted by cheesehead on Fri, Jun 18, 2010, at 2:19 PM

All well, and good Mrxray, but do you disagree that BP is the "real rascal"? You are as aware as I of their atrocious record that is far worse than that of other companies.

You did read the article at the link that I included with my comment?

BP is all about profit, safety be damned, and has given a second meaning to "my cup runneth over" as they enjoy reflecting on the original meaning.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Jun 17, 2010, at 11:09 AM

unfunded debt now up to 50+ TRILLION dollars and 1.39 TRILLION in LOSSES last year BUT the GOVERNMENT the ALL CURING, ALL KNOWING, Government says it is only 248 billion in debt... but never fear... that is ONLY $515,000 per household

OH wait... when Obama ruins BP and they go bankrupt and the tax payer is forced to pay for the clean up and the oil spill containment... crap and tax, and all other tax funded programs that the government should provide the people for 'free'... China can just walk in with our Debtors papers and nationalize our entire nation.

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Jun 17, 2010, at 1:52 AM

OKR: It was me that stated that were we to have REAL domestic oil drilling policies within the boundaries of our LAND based oil pockets, then we would not have been forced to drill in DEEP DEEP oceans... funny thing... I listened to ALL of the 4 Oil CEOs along with BP and they said basically they would not have drilled where BP did.. why? Because it was to deep and the safetey mechanisms were untried at those depths and because their emergency responses for a well failure at those depths were inadequate....

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Jun 17, 2010, at 1:46 AM

I meant empiricism. Good grief.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jun 16, 2010, at 10:00 PM

Nine years we have been in Afghanistan. It has reached the point that blood of our dead soldiers is on the hands of the American citizenry. We can now ignore the Afghan war only at our own moral peril.

Just as I, and many others have said all along about this nasty immoral war things are not getting better, there is no real progress.

General McChrystal has backed off on his projections of success, and is admitting failure. President Obama is waffling on his time line to get us out of there. There is a strained relationship between the corrupt puppet government we put in place, and our government. On, and on.

Meanwhile most of us are too lazy, and/or too stupid to even see what is before our eyes. We just ignore it and let our tattered yellow ribbons flap in the breeze as we drive on our merry way. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/15/world/...

Shame on every one of you who is clueless about what I have just written. Will you at least read the link I have provided? Will you then at least even for just a moment, consider what should I do, what can I do? If not may the unnecessary blood spilled over there, and the unnecessary anguish of parents, and siblings of those gruesomely wounded haunt you forever.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jun 16, 2010, at 1:35 AM

Mrxray I believe it is you that has blamed the offshore oil leaks on our failure to allow drilling in Alaska, etc. forcing us to drill in the dangerous deep off shore locations.

It seems your solution/conclusion may not be the answer.

Please consider that the real rascal is BP, and their negligent practices where ever they drill, land or sea, will continue to destroy our environment with all the consequences of such destruction.

Get a load of this. http://www.truth-out.org/documents-emplo...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jun 16, 2010, at 12:49 AM

Cheetah, I believe you're right about the historical ramification of this news. When I heard a reporter in Afghanistan mention the "discovery," my first thought was that we can say goodbye to the plan for bringing the troops home in mid-2011. I recall once seeing a movie (Mad Max), about two factions fighting over the last of the gasoline in the world, and I can see a similar kind of situation as us humans steadily deplete the planet's natural resources until continual wars make life unsustainable.

As a youngster I remember hearing talk of the "yellow race" ruling the world. The old theory of the self-fulfilling prophecy seems to be alive and well and hard at work on some parts of the globe.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Jun 15, 2010, at 11:03 PM

Too bad we can't get our government officials to hold to the same standard they are asking of BP.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Jun 15, 2010, at 7:23 PM

Cheetah: Very interesting, very, very, interesting.

As if there were not already a host of reasons as to why we won't ever get out of this miserable, misbegotten, mishandled war we now have this. God only knows how long the Bush/Cheney Administration had been licking their chops over this "new" information. Make no mistake the Obama Administration shares that avarice.

It is going to be an interesting show to watch. On the one hand we have the traditional militaristic empericism of the United States. On the other we have the more subtle economic empiricism of China. Which will win in Afghanistan? For that matter, which will win the world over?

My money is on the Chinese. Their form of achieving dominance does not devastate the infrastructure, and resources of their country, nor that of the country of interest. In fact each successful encroachment increases the coffers of each.

Contra to that our heavy handed form of empericism utilizes the irrational approach of first identifying, then identifying with, out of power elements within a country. Then through our use of devastating force we "assist" those elements in their "struggle for freedom". The immediate result is devastation of the country. Before we can begin to reap any of the rewards of successful empericism we further deplete our own resources necessarily rebuilding the havoc we have wreaked. This, before we can even begin to realize any material gain from our endeavor.

How many times must we repeat these fiascos before we learn to change? Obviously we did not learn from our Viet Nam experience. It took many years for us to recieve any material gain from that relationship. Now they are our great trade partners. What if we had just skipped that war, realizing that the French had failed there giving every portent that our result would be the same?

So, here we are, having failed to heed that the mighty U.S.S.R. had failed miserably in a similar Afghan expedition, neck deep in the big muddy.

The U.S.S.R. fell apart after their mistake. Hopefully we will not. It is certain that we can no longer afford the luxury of military empericism, and maintain the standard of living that we have enjoyed. That at the least.

Are we stupid, or what?

Ah, copy, and paste.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Jun 14, 2010, at 3:09 PM

Cheetah, I replied at length to your question. Unfortunately I inadvertently posted it on the first segment of the political blog.

Warning to others when you wish to post a comment do not click on the post comment link above the newest comment. Go to the end of the comments to post.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Jun 14, 2010, at 3:04 PM

have to agree with cheetah on this. also - i wonder how much was known before hand and is not really new information.

zeke

-- Posted by zeke on Mon, Jun 14, 2010, at 2:28 PM

Neither.

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Jun 13, 2010, at 10:47 PM

Bush's fault or lack of executive experience?

http://bigjournalism.com/acary/2010/06/1...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Jun 13, 2010, at 8:55 PM

Tabula Rasa

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Jun 13, 2010, at 6:28 PM


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