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Speak Out March 1 to April 1, 2010

Monday, March 1, 2010

The Marshall Democrat-News welcomes views or questions on any issue. We hope you'll express yourself freely and responsibly. We reserve the right to exclude entries that we deem disrespectful, threatening, obscene or in other ways objectionable.

Past Speak Out conversations

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Phelps labels himself a "Democrat" and "liberal". He has some way weird ways to justify those. I will not post links to his websites here because they aren't appropriate(imho).

You can call him what you want.... but in a previous post you stated "I don't think Christians would like you telling them that they aren't Christians because you say so or rather you think your interpretation of the Bible is somehow superior to theirs". So, I'm guessing if he wants to call himself a "liberal"....

I'm sure in HIS mind he believes himself to be a Christian. I've met a few who believed themselves to be handsome and/or intelligent... Whatever.

Have a great day!


-- Posted by missy08 on Thu, Apr 1, 2010, at 7:32 AM

"Bush wiretapping program takes hit in Calif ruling"


-- Posted by news across on Thu, Apr 1, 2010, at 6:36 AM


Rev Phelps is s well known ultra-right-wing political and religious conservative.

Make no mistake about it...he votes straight Republican ticket every election.

The reason he protests military funerals is because he believes that the soldiers die because God is displeased with America's "toleration" of gays and lesbians, and like all good Calvinists, he believes to honor anyone who is dead, because of God's wrath, is to commit a sin.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Apr 1, 2010, at 6:33 AM

news, oops. Forgot to include something very important in my previous post. Phelps claims to be a "liberal". He actually ran for political office on a Democratic ticket. Hmmm. Of course, he also claims to be a Christian.


-- Posted by missy08 on Thu, Apr 1, 2010, at 6:32 AM


My post of 3-22 "news, I don't see a post where mrxray is trying to "rationalize or justify racism". I do see a post that gives examples of bad behavior by Democrats/liberals. One name he forgot to include is Fred Phelps."

Of course, I find this disturbing. And, maybe a wee bit disturbing that we agree on something. lol

Have a great day!


-- Posted by missy08 on Thu, Apr 1, 2010, at 6:23 AM


While I certainly don't support the protesting of any funeral, Rev Phelps and his Christian church are just one more example of yet another right-wing, fundamentalist, Christian congregation attempting to impose their interpretation of the Bible, their low moral values, and their hypocrisy on the folks at the funeral...and all the rest of us too.

I am happy that, like me, you also find this very disturbing.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Apr 1, 2010, at 3:05 AM


Yes, this is tragic. I hope the Supreme Court rules in favor of MR. Snyder. By the way, Bill O'Reilly of Fox News said he would pay the legal fees for Mr. Snyder. The American Legion and others are also making donations to a legal fund.

-- Posted by pressman on Thu, Apr 1, 2010, at 1:43 AM

Here's a kaffeeklatch topic:

Nationwide, weather reporters were polled about the existence of global warming, and:

54% said it's occurring;

25% said it isn't occurring;

21% said they don't know;

30% of the 54% said they believe it isn't man-made.

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Mar 31, 2010, at 10:42 PM

Yes NanaDot,

one of the biggest criticisms of the People of France -- and one of their targets -- during the French Revolution was the small middle class of France which had served as tools of the Rich to keep the poor in check.

so they gave many of them the blade of the guillotine for their efforts...and rightly so.

They rich did it then as they do it now...they just use a carrot and a stick.

Sure the rich tell us they want us to join their club, but they are making sure no one gets an application.

We are fools if we don't wake up soon and realize there is something inherently wrong when only 1.5% of the population owns and controls 98% of the GNP and the NNP. That effectively leaves 2% to be fought over by the other 98.5% of the population.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Mar 31, 2010, at 10:12 PM

'Post-Palin Alaska has largest debt burden in US'


-- Posted by news across on Wed, Mar 31, 2010, at 9:06 PM

'Greenpeace outs billionaire brothers as 'kingpins' of climate denial'


-- Posted by news across on Wed, Mar 31, 2010, at 8:20 PM

The "proper" authorities were contacted. If you weren't so dedicated to finding a conspiracy theory in every post you would realize all I want to do is make the parents aware that it not against school policy for a child to sit on someones lap. It's inappropriate, unprofessional, and uncalled for!!!

No one in their right mind would let a child that is not theirs sit on there lap for no apparent reason. You are asking for trouble!!! I was not aware that it was acceptable behavior in a class room. If you like it, fine! Just stay the HELL away from my kids!!!!!!!!!!

-- Posted by tdragon76 on Wed, Mar 31, 2010, at 7:58 PM

ND - the Hedges article is indeed interesting as well as sobering.

People in Washington appear to be totally indifferent to the signs of the potential coming storm. If I were an office-seeker I believe I'd be looking for another way to spend my time.

Based on our country's history of identifying and dealing with strife, it'll be civil war before anyone up there gets the picture.

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Mar 31, 2010, at 7:20 PM


I don't want to incriminate anyone, unfortunately this subject is specific to the male gender because of anatomy. If anyone is to push to have changes made to policy it should be them. I hope that they will take note here and make it a point to keep from opening themselves up to accusations or question of their intentions. It's not personal, it's maternal! I have to protect my child, I have to ask some hard questions and make hard decisions to do that. Thanks Eric and your welcome.

-- Posted by tdragon76 on Wed, Mar 31, 2010, at 5:33 PM

WE will never know what his intentions were. I would like to think they were innocent! That was their determination. Why even allow it? My child had to change classes, be taken from where all her friends were. She doesn't understand what she did wrong. This needs to be changed in the policy so that no other student, staff, or teacher has to go through it, has to be asked THOSE questions. THOSE questions can change peoples lives no matter what the outcome is.

-- Posted by tdragon76 on Wed, Mar 31, 2010, at 5:19 PM

Thank you, tdragon, for treading carefully here. These are difficult situations to address publicly if no criminal charges or school disciplinary action has been taken. I don't blame Smokin' Cheetah for asking about specifics, because otherwise suspicion may fall on a whole class of people, most of whom are innocent. But making accusations against a specific individual is also dangerous.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Wed, Mar 31, 2010, at 5:04 PM

There are no charges. It's not even misconduct because it's not against school policy. It comes down to a stranger making a judgment on intentions of the action.

-- Posted by tdragon76 on Wed, Mar 31, 2010, at 5:01 PM


Are there charges being filed? Is the whole story to be published?

-- Posted by litlmissme on Wed, Mar 31, 2010, at 4:51 PM

Well that was informative! If you need any more clarity than what you have already presumed then I presume you don't get the point, which would be making someone else aware of something I found out about the hard way. I do hope this bit of knowledge opens peoples eyes to a potentially devastating situation before their world is turned upside down like mine and my child's was.

-- Posted by tdragon76 on Wed, Mar 31, 2010, at 4:44 PM

How come we don't see much about the school bond issue that will be voted on April 6? Is the school board trying to sneak the bond approval past the voters with only the supporters being kept abreast of issues? Is the school board afraid that the voters will put together the cost of the new school and the cost of making up the funding that the state has cut from Marshall Public and turn it down once again? Why the silence?

-- Posted by Red Witch on Wed, Mar 31, 2010, at 4:36 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
I plan to write a review of the bond issue this week. The board and bond committee held a series of public meetings earlier this year. Numerous stories have been written about those meetings and about the bond issue and related questions, but nothing has changed in recent weeks. Bond campaign co-chairman Wayne Crawford said at last week's school board meeting that the committee decided to go with more of a get-out-the-vote approach through personal contacts this time because the specifics of the issue have been throughly explained in recent months.

I don't know what else I could say without incriminating anyone. I just hope you trust your school staff members. I can tell you it will NEVER be o.k. for my daughters to sit on any mans lap that isn't in my presence and an immediate family member. Don't care who's policy says what.

-- Posted by tdragon76 on Wed, Mar 31, 2010, at 3:54 PM

How many of you are aware it is not against school policy for your sons and daughters to be sitting on a mans lap? Seems like an invitation for trouble in this day and age!!!

-- Posted by tdragon76 on Wed, Mar 31, 2010, at 2:44 PM

I think Becky Plattner needs to be fired.

-- Posted by pennypincher1 on Wed, Mar 31, 2010, at 2:09 PM

seems to me that politics is getting way too political.



-- Posted by zeke on Wed, Mar 31, 2010, at 2:08 PM

My new Motto If your in office now you got to GO!!!!!

-- Posted by Gal66 on Wed, Mar 31, 2010, at 1:03 PM

I see the bureaucrats are, with reckless abandon, intent on offshore oil drilling, which, by logistical accounts, will only drive UP the price of a barrel of crude.

The irony of it - the dumbocrats were opposed to it when Bush was pushing, but now they're all for it. If it brays like a donkey, it's definiitely one between the ears.

If we don't get rid of the stupes up there, we deserve everything wrong we get.

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Mar 31, 2010, at 12:32 PM


You do not speak for me.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Mar 31, 2010, at 12:28 PM

Zeke I think as with so many things it is an individual decision. By that I mean there are many Christians who are socialists, and probably more who are aghast at even the thought of it. So you can be a Christian Socialist if you believe you can, and have faith in the propriety of your decision.

I am not going to expound on it, but many believe that the stories about Jesus, especially those purported to be quotes embrace socialistic themes.

This reply is submitted humbly because I don't know if I am smarter than you or not. I wish you would not put such qualifiers to your request for opinion. Which of us truly knows?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Mar 31, 2010, at 11:59 AM

hey all of you who are smarter than all of me ...

can a person be a christian socialist -

why or why not?

a question from somewhere west of here


-- Posted by zeke on Wed, Mar 31, 2010, at 10:41 AM


Obviously God is punishing you.:)

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Mar 31, 2010, at 8:11 AM

That makes me feel better. I think.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Mar 31, 2010, at 7:38 AM


I suspect you are not serious. I further suspect you just enjoy being inflammatory. Would that be correct?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Mar 31, 2010, at 7:28 AM

Am I the only one who believes this to be tragic?


Beautiful morning here in Missouri...

Have a great day!


-- Posted by missy08 on Wed, Mar 31, 2010, at 7:07 AM


That was an excellent article you posted the link to. I really enjoyed it. Thanks mate!

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Mar 31, 2010, at 5:21 AM

It is not just Chicken Little doing the clucking folks. http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/is_a...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Mar 31, 2010, at 1:17 AM

Obama as "Bush Lite" on energy policy? http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/31/scienc...

Come on now all you conservatives that loved the Bushies position on off shore oil drilling give YOUR President a great big hug. Bush couldn't get it done, but the man you despise may.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Mar 31, 2010, at 12:55 AM

Litlmissme how is your kitty tonight? Has it turned up missing, or has it had to have an emergency amputation of an appendage? ;] I LOL at your clever retort. It reminded me of an old story that I can't attribute.

A census taker appeared at a run down farm, and asked the farmer what's the story with the three legged pig, the only pig on the place? At length the farmer extolled the virtues of the pig. The census taker grew impatient and interrupted, "so why do you happen to have a three legged pig?" The farmer sadly replied "when you have a pig that good you can't bring yourself to eat him all at one time."

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Mar 31, 2010, at 12:18 AM

Hey Marcia:

I remember in High School about a book or a short story about "the day the pigs would not die." It was a fantasy about a person who wished that nothing would die. Low and behold nothing did die. The suffering of the world was so great. People and animals did not die. The sick did not die. There were so many food shortages. The moral of the story was that death is a part of life.

Well meaning people who wanted to "help" horses have brought a curse on the animals. Now they can no longer be humanly killed and then the body used for mostly animal food. Now people have a very large expense to get rid of a horse that is not able to be useful. I have even heard of people dumping an unwanted horse out in the rural parts just like they do with dogs.

Pity and those do-gooders sit in their ivory towers and look down on us who have to deal with the expense of an unwanted or sick or injured animal. It costs $100.00 to cremate a dog or a cat today I wonder what it costs to cremate a horse?

-- Posted by movaldude on Tue, Mar 30, 2010, at 11:43 PM

Horse slaughter was practiced in the US until 2007, when the HSUS helped to push a state bill through outlawing slaughter in Illinois, where the last remaining horse slaughter plant was located.

Missouri is one of several states who are trying to make it legal for a horse slaughter plant to come back to the U.S.

Here are the thoughts of Troy Hadrick of Advocates for Agriculture commenting on the Missouri bill:

"As the horse market continues to reside in the cellar and unwanted horses burden so many individuals and government entities there are efforts still moving forward to re-instate the harvesting of horses. Since the practice ended in the United States, the number of horses that are suffering has skyrocketed. It's a classic example of what happens when emotional decisions meet the real world."

-- Posted by Marcia Gorrell on Tue, Mar 30, 2010, at 10:59 PM

So what. Does that mean we are supposed to lend creedence to Glen Beck? Look at most anything on tv these days. This country is fascinated with watching the train wrecks. Beck is a nothing more than just another train wreck.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Mar 30, 2010, at 9:57 PM

Even the drive by media can't ignore this.


-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Mar 30, 2010, at 9:38 PM

Do you ever see cats around a chinese restaurant? hmmmmmmmmmm

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Mar 30, 2010, at 9:30 PM

American Idol RULES!!!

-- Posted by Low on Tue, Mar 30, 2010, at 7:47 PM

I think I would eat dog or cat before I had to survive on tofu or bean sprouts. Gotta go, dinner time, here kitty kitty!

-- Posted by litlmissme on Tue, Mar 30, 2010, at 4:11 PM

Lilmissme I agree with you. If you didn't guess it my whole schtick was satire, an opportunity to spin off one point to another,and poke fun at human foibles.

I agree with the practicality of the plan. As you inferred we apparently don't have enough food to feed the poor. Why not horse meat?

I also appreciate your point that many horses suffer a cruel, suffering end due to an over population of equines. Euthanasia with a bonus. Which leads me to the obvious connection that we are even more over run with starving suffering dogs. That could really feed our starving, suffering poor. Why not dog meat?

Don't you agree?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Mar 30, 2010, at 2:20 PM

This horse meat thing may not be the conspiracy that people want to make it out to be.

Ask some horse lovers who live in Texas what happens when there are no slaughterhouses for the horses. Horses suffer!

I don't see anything wrong with slaughterhouses for horses and using that meat to feed the hungry. In this economy why not?

A horse eats a lot of food and if an owner cannot provide adequate food and water and shelter for that animal to me it is better off going to a slaughterhouse and using that to feed under nourished families. Fewer horses suffer and we are feeding some hungry family.

-- Posted by litlmissme on Tue, Mar 30, 2010, at 1:46 PM


I don't think Christians would like you telling them that they aren't Christians because you say so or rather you think your interpretation of the Bible is somehow superior to theirs.

I think they would tend to disagree with you.

...and when you consider the long, violent history of Christianity...well breaking a few commandments is nothing new for those folks.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Mar 30, 2010, at 1:00 PM

if i call myself a christian and own a gun and believe that we will indeed someday see the rise of someone who might be considered "the antichrist" ... that only makes me a gun owning christian who believes the eschatological aspects of bible.

on the other hand, if i meet all the above criteria and have a documented plan to commit murder in order to have a venue to commit even more widespread murder in an attempt to spark an overthorw of the government - then that makes me a terrorist.

it's pretty simple really.


-- Posted by zeke on Tue, Mar 30, 2010, at 12:15 PM

HickoryDickoryDock I don't know, but you may be on to something regarding the proposed legal horsemeat law. I can see a possible correlation.

The Corporatocracy that makes our laws does want a steady stream of cheap labor. Whether they are doing it as a conscious enticement, or to provide a source of cheaper food so they can lower wages even further, or both remains a question.

Do you think that those inscrutable Asians, namely the Koreans, might be behind it? It may be that this is just a first step toward making it legal, and socially acceptable to consume Fido.

The whole concept, the potential, is mind boggling. Why not ship containers full of the really desperate folks into our country? I am talking about those folks that you see in 'National Geographic' specials free ranging on grasshoppers, and other bugs. You could put em in the fields to chop weeds for next to nothin. Wouldn't even have to feed em, just yell "lunch time" and they could devour the crawlies right there among the rows, then right back to work. There may even be support for that practice from some of the more radical "Greens". No fuel burned during cultivation, no pesticides necessary, no herbicides, and less fertilizer due to the swarms of desperate people in the fields with bellies full of bugs.

Now no doubt Monsanto, and the rest of the GMO folks would throw a hissy fit, but it is about time we turn the tables on the "Corporates", and get them to fightin' among themselves...they have been doin' it to us "we the people" for the longest time.

The more I think about it the more I see real potential in the entire concept. There would hardly be a whisper of protest. First of all the Unions are dead so that isn't a problem any more. Our dedicated Hispanic folks that now do the dirty work no one else will would finally have a lower caste that they too can disparage as the rest of us already have, so they would get on board. They have have earned that perk by now. Most importantly the rest of us have been well conditioned to keep our mouths shut, and tend to iur own business...go along to get along. I really don't see a lot of protest.

All this epicurean upheaval sure gives the description of our nation as a "melting pot" enhanced meaning don't it?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Mar 30, 2010, at 11:41 AM

Hutarees are to Christians what al Queda is to Muslims.

Sorry, news, but they don't look like Christians to me. The Hutarees allegedly advocate breaking one of God's 10 commandments in order to further their own political aims. They also advocate violating just about the entirety of Christ's teachings.

If Bill Gates wears a red tie do you call him a Communist?

I hope this helps Christians who fear Muslims. How many Christians want to be judged by the actions (or at least the plans and policies) of the Hutarees? That's probably how Muslims feel about al Queda.

-- Posted by taxedpayer on Tue, Mar 30, 2010, at 7:19 AM

"Florida Teachers against Pay for Performance" -- I know you were being sarcastic, HHD, but there's good reason why teachers resist these schemes. I haven't seen the specifics of Florida's plan, but I can tell you that most proposals of this sort depend heavily on test scores to determine teaching quality. That means teachers are judged not by their own performance as teachers but by their performance as test-prep cheerleaders.

-- Posted by taxedpayer on Tue, Mar 30, 2010, at 7:05 AM

Coming soon...only in Missouri. Are you ready for sway back stew, horse hock & beans, stallion steak, and filly mignon?

I never thought the time would come when I would look at a steak on my plate, and be in a position to appropriately say "Hi ho Silver away.", or the related "Get em up Scout.".

I suppose that it may become a favored item in haute restaurants serving french cuisine. That's nothing to me because I can't stand the tab, nor the company in such places.

You know though...on second thought I did try the glue at school when in first grade. It wasn't too bad. Maybe the actual horse meat will be even better.

Reference: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/M...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Mar 30, 2010, at 12:35 AM

WTF - I'll go along with you on that. Hate seems to be stronger than ever.

Yep, I always thought the words to Onward Christian Soldiers are bizarre, like the Crusades and might makes right.

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Mar 29, 2010, at 10:45 PM

"Onward christian soldiers........"

You know, even as a kid in church that song made me feel uncomfortable.

My favorite song lyric on this topic is from

Coven's "One tin soldier" ....."do it in the name of heaven, you can justify it in the end."

Seems as if Hysteria has taken root in this country as if it were a drug. Some people are clearly intoxicated with rage. Have any terrorist attacks really ever changed anything? In this country, I think so. We are clearly feeding on ourselves.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Mar 29, 2010, at 10:37 PM


You are correct. Their "doctirine" pretty much say it all. It's quite disturbing, actually.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Mar 29, 2010, at 10:08 PM


Here is the link to the Christianist Militia Group that has said it wants to make war on our Government.

For a group you claim are not Christian...or representative of Christianity...what ever that means...they sure do look like devout Christians to me.

Have a look at their website and see if you get the impression that they are motivated by their firm Christian faith or not.


-- Posted by news across on Mon, Mar 29, 2010, at 10:02 PM

"CNN report suggests Antichrist-fearing militia group hosted Tea Party"


-- Posted by news across on Mon, Mar 29, 2010, at 9:50 PM

Ok, mate.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Mar 29, 2010, at 9:26 PM


Wow, calm down dude.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Mar 29, 2010, at 9:16 PM



-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Mar 29, 2010, at 9:14 PM


Are you trying to give me the tired, old line of "oh well...they aren't true Christians" again?

They are a Christian militia.

As far as I know now they are all completely innocent of any wrong doing...but a jury will decide that based on the facts as to their status.

In the meantime their website seems to make it very clear they are a Christian based military militia.

We have seen these types of conservative, Christian terrorists groups before. Let's not pretend they aren't out there.

Oh and by the way...I think this groups members, after hearing you say they don't represent Christianity, would say just the opposite and would probably tell you that you are not a true Christian.

But to the American patriot who only wants to see his or her Nation free of Christianist Terrorists and worries about the kind of Christofascism we saw under Bush...they all look like Christians no matter how much finger pointing they do amongst themselves.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Mar 29, 2010, at 9:05 PM

Here ya go, News:


-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Mar 29, 2010, at 6:57 PM

"Christian warrior' militia accused in plot to kill police"


Well...it looks like the Christian terrorists are at it again. If convicted, I hope they all rot in prison till they die.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Mar 29, 2010, at 6:29 PM


I am proud of both my Countries. Both are great democracies.

God Bless the USA

God Bless Australia

I am glad to be a part of both.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Mar 29, 2010, at 6:19 PM


I'm not sure if you are referring to me because of my comment to news across but I never told them not to be proud of being an Australian, an American or anything.

Secondly, what the hell are you talking about?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Mar 29, 2010, at 3:33 PM

Squirrels! Yum! You can get their cousins at KFC. (heh heh)

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Mar 29, 2010, at 3:32 PM

well said wtf

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Mar 29, 2010, at 11:41 AM

Dear News,

I hope you will take this critcism in the spirit in which it's intended.

We know you are an American living in Australia and I definately can appreciate the point of view you have to offer based on your experiences in both countries.

That being said, your over use of the word "mate", especially in written form borders on the pretentious.

I guess what I'm saying is you don't have to try so hard to convince us you live in Australia. I'll take your word for it.

This is not a slam but merely and observation.

Have a nice day.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Mar 29, 2010, at 9:03 AM


Raw Story is a news site. Its not a blog mate. Its news. They have a seat at every White House briefing, and they are a widely recognized internet news source with years of journalistic experience.

But nice try...

...and as to the other half of your comment...

Please spare me your "Straussian" concepts. I have heard them before.

We already know conservatives think they are born to rule...we saw what happened under Bush.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Mar 29, 2010, at 12:07 AM

Entitlements are a rip-off


-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Mar 28, 2010, at 10:51 PM

news you keep saying that but I don't know I may need some cold hard facts to REALLY believe. You see I would have to have faith that what you say is really true. Maybe if you tell us oh say a couple of hundred more times we MAY start believing it. HEH! HEH! HEH! OH I know you can post a link to Raw Story telling about your dual citizenship.

I'll keep handing you a bigger shovel if you want to keep digging.

We need people with leadership and governance to run our country. Now our leadership makes a lot of speeches and has a lot of meetings but I guess that's what community organizers do. A lot of talk but nobody is listening.


-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Mar 28, 2010, at 10:15 PM

There's nothing like local entertainment. :)


-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Mar 28, 2010, at 9:33 PM

Why hasn't anything been posted about the wreck by the college Friday afernoon.

-- Posted by jaz2009 on Sun, Mar 28, 2010, at 8:26 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Because we don't have the police report yet. We'll get it Monday morning and post the information as soon as possible.


I am both a Proud American Socialist and a Proud Australian Socialist. I also have dual citizenship -- 2 countries...get used to it.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Mar 28, 2010, at 8:00 PM

Hey missy, thanks for answering. I do believe yard pick up does start this week. I too am thankful. I have plently of sticks to get started on winter clean up.

That wind is indeed cold. Burrrrr!!

-- Posted by Scarpetta on Sun, Mar 28, 2010, at 5:48 PM

Hey Scarpetta, I haven't heard about clean up day yet. I *think* yard waste pick up begins tomorrow.... I hope.

Some sun but that wind is COLD!


-- Posted by missy08 on Sun, Mar 28, 2010, at 5:26 PM

Hello all. I'm wondering if the city has said when city wide clean up will be? I'm sorry if I have missed the convo but any info is appreciated.

-- Posted by Scarpetta on Sun, Mar 28, 2010, at 12:04 PM


Are you an American Socialist or an Australian Socialist?

Man I will have to quite smokin that stuff cause I am SO CONFUSED!!!!!!!!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Mar 28, 2010, at 9:57 AM

Is it true our state legislators voted themselves a raise and voted to CUT education?

-- Posted by Pasta on Sun, Mar 28, 2010, at 8:02 AM


Isn't "love" a pretty strong word? Have you been smoking that stuff again?

Thanks for the early morning smile!


-- Posted by missy08 on Sun, Mar 28, 2010, at 6:37 AM

news again you prove my point every day. you totally missed it.

but we love you anyway

God bless and have a wonderful day

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Mar 28, 2010, at 5:19 AM

Thank you NanaDot for the link to Raj Patel. We must some how put a stop to permanent rapaciousness.

We must continue to discover ways to get through to the grass roots, to the masses, the ideas of intellectuals. I really think that a trusting, and mutually respecting understanding between those two groups is the best hope of humanity.

I also think that the corporatists fear that combination the most. No wonder they utilize every opportunity, every means to denigrate intellectuals. **** egg heads! ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Mar 28, 2010, at 2:32 AM


I don't recall the Republicans even offering a Health-care access Bill on the floor of either house.

Frankly, I think the conservative agenda seems to be to try to cause President Obama's policies to fail. I have seen no indication that they mind that if our President's policies fail, We the People suffer. And may I remind you that President Obama...and the Democrats were duly elected my the majority to represent the majority.

We the People will be happy to remind these Neocons of who is really in charge -- again -- for the 3rd election in a row -- come November.

Have a supercalifragilistic day!!

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Mar 27, 2010, at 11:29 PM

"'Patriot' hate groups grew by 244% in 2009"


-- Posted by news across on Sat, Mar 27, 2010, at 11:20 PM


Yeah that is correct the Australians do have some nursing home problems that have existed for many, many years now. If fact my wife's Aunt is on the inspection board in NSW and has filed numerous charges against these PRIVATELY owned nursing homes. I am glad you pointed this out and that you brought it up. Its an important issue.

As a proud American Socialist and as an Economist, I believe it makes far more sense to move resources to places where they help the People. For example, by moving from a hybrid system to a fully socialized medical system and moving resources from military spending to the socialized medical system, such problems as cited in Murdoch's paper you quoted -- the Australian version of Americans "Fox News," could be eliminated. I might also add that the problems in the Nursing homes worsened significantly under former Prime Minister John Howard...a hard core Australia conservative...good friend of G. Bush.

That is why as a proud Australian Socialist, I work hard locally to press the issue of moving resources away from wasteful military spending to medical spending.

Because...if we have the money to kill with, we have the money to heal with.

Now shall I post some horror stories about American nursing homes mate?...its very easy to do. I think you realize that nursing homes all over the World are having difficulties and the USA is certainly no exception to that.

In the end, the conservatives in both Australia and the United States have created massively huge military budgets and very little going to social programs relative to military spending.

The problems with proper medical care access in both Australia and the United States are principal reasons that both the Australians and the Americans fired the conservatives from power. Its part of why John Howard lost. Its part of why the Republicans had massive losses in the last 2 elections and its why they will suffer even more massive losses in this years election.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Mar 27, 2010, at 9:41 PM

and now breaking news from down under about health care.


-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Mar 27, 2010, at 7:27 PM

Yep, Bob, it rained mud. It was a mess!

Here is a summary of the "neocon" Health Care Reform. FYI.


Have a great evening.


-- Posted by missy08 on Sat, Mar 27, 2010, at 7:23 PM

Did any of you notice that it rained mud today? A lot of car windows were covered with tan gunk. I drove to Marshall from Orrick and when I would hit a patch of rain, my windshield smeared, especially when I used the wipers. Kept using the washer fluid, to the point that I feared running out. I cannot remember ever having such dirty rain.

-- Posted by Bob Kennedy on Sat, Mar 27, 2010, at 6:48 PM

"Newborn denied health coverage over 'pre-existing condition'"


...and remember folks...the neocons think this is just fine. Remember folks that the neocons have been in full support of Big Insurance denying you benefits and have strongly opposed changing this -- remember every single Republican in Congress voted against changing these kinds of Big Insurance tactics.

If We the People ever want to take our Nation back from control by the Neocon minority...we had best learn to recolonize our Nation's true enemy -- conservatism and the Republican Party.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Mar 27, 2010, at 6:36 PM

amen to that missy!!!

raining again.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Mar 27, 2010, at 5:24 PM

N S,

Good one!


-- Posted by missy08 on Sat, Mar 27, 2010, at 10:37 AM

Or the movie Groundhog Day.

-- Posted by Night Sky on Sat, Mar 27, 2010, at 10:21 AM


Kind of like a car wreck, isn't it? *grin*



-- Posted by missy08 on Sat, Mar 27, 2010, at 10:10 AM

news, I guess I don't understand the rules of the game. I *assume* that when a post starts with "missy08", that it is directed at me.

As far as Mr. Padilla is concerned, you introduced that subject and expected me to defend it. I don't claim to know all the facts. I don't believe you know all the facts.

You reference multiple internet links and "expert opinion and factual information" but (IMHO) we only have access to the "facts" that have been revealed to us. And, very often, you discredit any links or sources that anyone else decides to post.

"Qualifying one's arguments with expert opinion and factual information is a requirement of formal debate as well as a minimal requirement of literally every single formal university in the World." As for that statement, I understand the first half but the second part -- WHAT? I have never had to argue my way into a formal university. I've always just gone through the application process....

The rain is moving in...

Have a great day!


-- Posted by missy08 on Sat, Mar 27, 2010, at 7:48 AM

newsacross.... sorry took so long to respond.

I never ever made any statement that could be used realistically to justify racism. However, in your typical manner you attempt to twist things to suit you. ANY politician that continually race baits by adding returning war veterans, conservatives and etc to a national watch list by calling them potential racists and terrorists is NO different than a person who throws out racial insults.

Thanks for trying but failing at a realistic argument

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Mar 27, 2010, at 6:57 AM

news you prove my point every time you post.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Mar 27, 2010, at 3:31 AM

Oklahoma Reader


Yeah I am not that smart either mate...I got it from Dr. Carl Sagan.

My summary of the concept is pathetic compared to Dr. Sagan's explanation and like most things Dr. Sagan says...it sounds almost like poetry.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Mar 27, 2010, at 3:31 AM

No fuss News. I may have implied something I did not mean to imply. Perhaps I should have just said thanks for the explanation, we differ a bit, so what?

I would be the last person to say definitively what God is or isn't. I ain't that smart.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Mar 27, 2010, at 12:49 AM


As to your statement that my qualifying my comments and statements is somehow parroting the ideas of someone else...I beg to differ.

Qualifying one's arguments with expert opinion and factual information is a requirement of formal debate as well as a minimal requirement of literally every single formal university in the World.

I make no apologies for qualifying my arguments.

As to Mr. Padilla, yes his attorneys say sleep deprivation, constant, extremely loud music, and water boarding were both used on Mr. Padillia as well as beatings. Many, if not all, of these same torture techniques are spelled out in the official NAZI Gestopo "Sharpened Interrogation Techniques" orders which specified what types of interrogation techniques were acceptable to them.


...and I cannot help but wonder who is parroting who?

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Mar 27, 2010, at 12:34 AM

Seventy percent of those who identify as Tea Partiers..."

"More than 90 percent of Tea Party backers interviewed..."

"At the same time, 70 percent of those who sympathize with the Tea Party...

John Byrne

The Rawstory online news


I think Mr. Byrne makes it clear from his statements in the article, quoted above, that one of the poll questions was something to the effect of, "Do you regard yourself to be a Teaparty Supporter?"

I see 3 indications that indeed these individuals polled that were identified as Teaparty supporters" were identified as such by their voluntary answer or statement.

I see no indication that it is any other way.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Mar 26, 2010, at 9:19 PM


I was not referencing you specifically in my comment.

The comment was one I wanted to draw your attention to, however you were not the subject of the comment.

The subject of the comment was, and is, that its a shame that Neocons often times attempt to divert from the subject at hand because they have no qualified argument to support their positions. Further I pointed out that such diversion from the focus on the issues in fact has a negative effect on already intolerable problems in our Nation.

I do find it interesting that you seem to feel that was about you.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Mar 26, 2010, at 9:07 PM

news you need to research your articles better not just take what people say about something as gospel.

The article title:Poll: 'Anti-socialist' Tea Party activists want government to create jobs..references a Bloomberg poll that says they called at random 1,002 adults age 18 or over and then it list the questions and how the people responded. The poll does not say they were calling 'Anti-socialist' Tea Party activists.

John Byrne took it upon himself to spin this story so people like you would read it. This is why you need to quite reading Raw Story they are telling anything you want to hear.

If you look at the poll and then at the story there is no credibility there.

Also news you are appalled at the name calling of the conservatives but you seem to be pretty good at it yourself. Maybe you got that information from Raw Story. I thought you only believed in facts hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!

By the way have a blessed day.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Mar 26, 2010, at 8:39 PM

news, I think if you review, you will realize that was your issue and your argument.

I used your own words to prove a point. I did not personally attack you.

Have a great day!


-- Posted by missy08 on Fri, Mar 26, 2010, at 6:24 PM

"Poll: 'Anti-socialist' Tea Party activists want government to create jobs"


More hypocrisy from the Neocons.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Mar 26, 2010, at 5:36 PM


I find it most unfortunate for Neocons that some of them choose to divert from their empty position on issues that they clearly don't have any supporting arguments for.

Sadly, instead of calm discourse in an honest attempt to solve problems, many Neocons prefer to divert to base tactics like personal attacks.

In their mind this somehow is a substitute for finding real solutions to real problems.

and yet another reason...


-- Posted by news across on Fri, Mar 26, 2010, at 5:32 PM

Oklahoma Reader

I like you mate...but...

Tell me, who is twisting your arm and forcing you to call something God that you choose not to call God?

It sure isn't me.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Mar 26, 2010, at 5:27 PM

Cheetah, I did every time except with 382. Or 372 for that matter. Came out to 198. Oh, and 291.

-- Posted by Green Eyes on Fri, Mar 26, 2010, at 5:11 PM

Will the new healthcare bill also include psychiatric care for the democrats?

-- Posted by Bad Egg on Fri, Mar 26, 2010, at 3:16 PM

Thanks News, reckon I will just stick with callin em laws of the universe. It has been a long time since I felt the need to deify anything...I had early suspicions about Santa Claus. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Mar 26, 2010, at 12:31 PM

Never mind, Eric. It was just more bantering with news.... using some of his own words to argue....

It IS a beautiful day!


-- Posted by missy08 on Fri, Mar 26, 2010, at 10:48 AM

It is a beautiful day today here in Missouri.

-- Posted by broke-n-busted on Fri, Mar 26, 2010, at 10:39 AM

Eric, what happened to my post? Was it offensive in some way? I did not use any foul language. I did not call anyone a negative name. ?????



-- Posted by missy08 on Fri, Mar 26, 2010, at 10:12 AM

oh news, one of your earlier posts stated "Did you actually meet and talk with any of these folks that knew Jesus personally?

I don't think so...

...you are just taking someone's word for it...in fact you are taking the word of people you know little or nothing about other than what little may be written about them..."

Okay, so let's substitute "Jose" for "Jesus".

Now, I'm sure you are searching, searching, searching for a thousand links to post here to support/prove your point. Don't bother. You are only parroting someone else's research/opinion.

Did you know that sleep deprivation can lead to tantrums and paranoia?


-- Posted by missy08 on Fri, Mar 26, 2010, at 9:58 AM


Are you also aware that he was never charged with the crime Bush accused him of?

He was tried on an unrelated charge and plead guilty against the advice of his attorneys and the psychiatrists that examined him said there was no way he was mentally competent to make that decision.

But I noticed the fact that he was held in violation of our laws and our Constitution and denied all of his rights is of little importance to you. You said nothing while that was going on and now you claim you are worried about freedom?

I am not buying that for one second.

Oh and don't worry about my personal concerns...they are none of your business.

Have a great day missy08!!! Enjoy that fine Missouri weather lol lol lol lol.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Mar 26, 2010, at 9:35 AM

news, my initial thought to your rant was "where is this coming from?" then I reviewed the posts and realized we both have a post of 8:03 a.m.

So, thanks for the "refresher" on Jose Padilla. I am aware of who he is. I am also aware of the outcome of the trial.

Isn't it time for your nap?

The sun is shining!!

Have a great day!


-- Posted by missy08 on Fri, Mar 26, 2010, at 9:28 AM


Jose Padillia is an American citizen born and raised in the USA his entire life -- just like most of us here. He was arrested in Chicago, jailed in New York, and then Bush issued an order for Rumsfeld to send a military squadron to the jail and to take custody of Jose Padillia with force if necessary -- force against the Police if necessary. He was then taken to a US military prison in South Carolina, held incommunicado, denied access to an attorney, denied communication with his family even by mail. He was held with out charges for 3 years. He never had a single hearing related to the charges. He never had a chance to even ask a judge why he was being held. After 3 years, when the Supreme Court was getting ready to hear his habeas corpus case -- the same case in which every single Federal Appellate Court that heard the habeas corpus appeal on his behalf by lawyers he never even had a chance to speak with had ruled the Bush Administration had multiple violations of his Constitutional rights, he was finally released from the military prison. His attorneys have said that indeed he had been tortured at the military prison for those 3 years, and every psychiatrist and psychologist that interviewed him declared him psychotic from the torture.

All that was done right there in the good ol' USA of A in violation of a whole slew of Constitutional rights.

You apparently didn't even know about it despite the fact that it was heavily reported in the press...or maybe you just didn't care.

And now you say you are concerned with freedom? I think not...typical neocon.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Mar 26, 2010, at 9:17 AM

ooops. typo. "countries"



-- Posted by missy08 on Fri, Mar 26, 2010, at 8:34 AM

oh news, was that comment directed at little ole me? *giggle*grin* I will not have an infarction because of typos.... I am much stronger and in much better shape than that! Typos don't really bother me. Spelling errors? Those are annoying.

And, just so you know, I am not a neocon. I am a true old fashioned conservative. Imposing US control or influence on other contries? Not something I am concerned about.

Y'all have a great day!


-- Posted by missy08 on Fri, Mar 26, 2010, at 8:03 AM


I don't remember you saying anything like that when Bush was holding an American citizen (Jose Padillia) in a military prison with out a hearing for 3 years, not allowed any contact with his lawyers or his family, tortured, and all in strict violation of the law. And the worst part is -- Bush never even charged him with the crime he was being accused of.

Gee...now your worried lol lol lol lol.

We the People have you neocons' number...we know what you are all about and it has nothing to do with freedom.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Mar 26, 2010, at 8:03 AM


I meant Fermilab...

I know some of our more conservative neocons tend to have heart attacks over typos. I don't want anyone going to the hospital of a little thing like a typo.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Mar 26, 2010, at 7:52 AM


Oh yes we know what we the evidence points to as the mechanism but frankly M theory is pretty advanced and I don't think you have the prerequisites to understand it at all. However, in the links I posted there are hours of information there about it...if you are seriously interested...which I doubt. In fact, I doubt you have looked at any of the links.

However, seeing beyond big bang is simply impossible and so we have to rely on the math and physics as well as observations at such places as Ferma Lab in Batavia, Illinois.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Mar 26, 2010, at 7:48 AM


You are welcome and my thought.....

Matthew 18:20

It's you and me.

Have a great day!


-- Posted by missy08 on Fri, Mar 26, 2010, at 7:17 AM

nanadot now who is getting ugly here? Now what would a quiet earth be without you?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Mar 26, 2010, at 7:07 AM

missy08 thank you and good lesson

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Mar 26, 2010, at 7:03 AM

You don't know the exact nature of the mechanism? What kind of answer is that? But yet you believe you know everything since the BIG BANG THEORY. I thought your mind was infinite. Sounds like you hit a road block.

I have provided links and evidence but if you can't see the evidence around you then I can't help you.

Have a wonderful day news

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Mar 26, 2010, at 7:01 AM


I agree with your comment regarding the "wackos". There are wackos and extremists in every group. This is evidenced by some of the posts on this very board.

I am frightened for our country. I am concerned about our freedoms. I am stunned by the intolerance.

Our lesson for the day --

bigot - a person obstinately devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices (merriam-webster)

Have a great day!


-- Posted by missy08 on Fri, Mar 26, 2010, at 5:32 AM

"Author: Soviets inspired Neocons"


-- Posted by news across on Fri, Mar 26, 2010, at 5:06 AM

Oklahoma Reader

It becomes clear when we ask the question "Can God create a stone so heavy that even he cannot lift it?" that even the 3 Christian Gods are inferior to the laws of the Universe.

Simply put, the sum total of all the laws of the Universe are superior to anything in the Universe.

Your question thus goes to the very definition of God. Cambridge Dictionary defines God as " the being which made the universe, the Earth and its people and is believed to have an effect on all things"


We know from the results of scientific methodology that everything in our Universe is a direct result of the physical Laws of our Universe which occurred immediately after Big Bang -- and continue to determine the direction of everything in the Universe today. Consequently, every thing that exists in the Universe...including us, is a direct result of, and subject to, the sum total of the physical laws of the Universe. There can be nothing superior to these within our Universe. All beings and non-beings, all matter, all energy is subject to, and inferior to, the physical laws of the Universe.

I think that fits very nicely with the Cambridge Dictionary definition of the term "God".

Is there a conscious creator being that was responsible for Big Bang? We have no evidence to suggest there is. String theory has certainly given us inroads into the question of what caused Big Bang and the math works, but as to the exact nature of the mechanism... well we may never know. However, we do know what has caused everything since Big Bang and that is the sum total of all the physical laws of the Universe and the Universe remains governed by same even to this day.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Mar 26, 2010, at 2:53 AM

News regarding your comment directed to me; why not just call them "the Laws of the Universe", that is what they are? Why call the laws of the universe God? Explain please.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Mar 26, 2010, at 1:07 AM

Yes White Tornado, it has been a long spell since you posted. Hope you are o.k. Life can be hectic at times, but leap in and say howdy.

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Fri, Mar 26, 2010, at 12:43 AM

Maybe this will wake the Politicians up? That the people are still in charge? But their doing it in a cowardly way! I hope no one loses their life, by some moron that wants to make a name for himself! Like the one that shot the abortion Doctor in Kansas! This country is full of halfwits! Its not over yet! ------ Nana Dot i like the way you think! Also, I would like to know if White Tornado is ok! If your out there let us know?

-- Posted by Jo on Thu, Mar 25, 2010, at 11:57 PM


The testable, verifiable, repeatable mountain of evidence supporting Hawking's Law of Big Bang is overwhelming and you will find it in the links I have provided. No faith is required at all to prove the Law of Big Bang -- its already been proven by the mountain of supporting physical evidence.

And speaking of evidence...

Would you please post the links to the testable, verifiable, repeatable evidence which proves the existence of Heaven and Hell please. I would love to look at the results of the experiments that proves with out any reasonable doubt that there are such places as Heaven and Hell. A good start would be their location.

Thanking you in advance....

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 25, 2010, at 9:47 PM


I don't think you know much about Big Bang and the factual evidence we now have.

Here are some links to some easy to understand documentaries and lectures on Big Bang and some of the other current operating theories and the evidence supporting them.

Unless you have a good background in particle physics and Einstein's Theory of Relativity, I recommend you watch the prerequisite videos to familiarize yourself with the Standard Model of Particle Physics.

Stephen Hawking's Universe - EP2: The Big Bang (1/ 5)


Parallel Universes [1/5] (super gravity + string theory)


The Elegant Universe - M Theory (1/11) (super-gravity + string theory)


Einstein's General Theory of Relativity | Lecture 1 (Leonard Susskind)


Quantum Mechanics The Uncertainty Principle Light Particle's (lecture)


Lecture - 1 Introduction to Quantum Physics;Heisenberg''s uncertainty principle

Lecture - 1 Introduction to Quantum Physics;Heisenberg''s uncertainty principle

The Quantum Revolution (1 of 5) (Dr. Michio Kaku)


some basic prerequisites:

The Standard Model (1/2) (lecture)


Electrons, Protons And Neutrons | Standard Model Of Particle Physics (lecture)


Protons, neutrons and electrons (lecture)


The Standard Model Explains Force And Matter


-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 25, 2010, at 9:09 PM

heh! heh! heh! Just like puppets on a string. Just like our president is a puppet to every special interest group that helped get him elected.

News you can't prove the big bang without a lot of faith.

When we die we have two choices heaven or hell and I am opting for heaven.

Bring it on and have a wonderful evening I know I am.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Mar 25, 2010, at 8:12 PM


As to what happens to us when we die, we rot...unless of course we are cremated first.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 25, 2010, at 7:13 PM


Regarding the beginning of the Universe, I suggest you read up on Big Bang, string theory, super-gravity theory, and M theory -- and the supporting scientific evidence. You will find your answers there.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 25, 2010, at 7:12 PM


Just a few bad apples?

I don't buy that at all.

I think you and other conservatives are reeling back from the fact that conservative "values" have been exposed. We saw what conservative values are when the Republican Justices on the Supreme Court -- and only the Republican Justices -- stopped an election -- in violation of their own previous rulings -- and essentially "selected" Bush as President -- one of their own. Then We the People watched in horror as Bush and the Republicans began breaking our laws, lying to us and to our Congress, stealing from us (Have you found that missing 9 billion dollars in Iraq yet?), attacking Nations that pose no direct, imminent threat to the USA, torturing people, keeping American citizens in prison without even ever appearing before a judge or having a trial of any kind, and the list goes on and on. Just recently we watched as conservatives claimed Obama was raising taxes when in fact he had just passed the largest tax cut in our Nation's history...which every Republican in Congress voted against. We have heard the almost constant stream of racists statements eliminating from conservative groups and their members. We have heard the conservatives attacking other people for their religious beliefs.

No its no accident that the Republican Party is 80% white/Christian. Its no accident that the Republicans have tried to block all legislation and has set a record for filibusters this term.

No sir, these are not just a few bad apples. We have seen and heard these same racist. bigoted statements from the conservatives over and over.

Once again, you conservatives refuse to accept responsibility. Once again you want to try to convince us you aren't who you seem to be.

But We the People know who you are. We the People fired your politicians in the last 2 elections and in this election we will be sending you conservatives a message about what we think of your obstructionism. Get ready for your 3rd big loss in a row.


-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 25, 2010, at 7:09 PM

nanadot & news

there are wackos in every group. They always try to spin the violence of a few to represent the many.

In general the people protesting are not violent. Get over it and quite being a cry baby. Wah! Wah! Somebody insulted me. Somebody put up a billboard about a revolution. Wah! Wah! Somebody called me an N... word. Wah! Wah! Make them stop!!!! Sorry but that is what your post sound like. Seems that every group has a bad apple but don't let it ruin the focus of the what the group actually represents. I know you don't agree with me but I'm not going to cry about it. If you quite looking to the government for answers you may find them.

That should be enough to stir you up for now.

Have a wonderful day!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Mar 25, 2010, at 5:26 PM


how did the universe come to be?

what happens to us when we die?

how do you explain that our minds are infinite?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Mar 25, 2010, at 4:58 PM

I don't think that atheists have any more evidence to claim that god doesn't exist than christains have that he does exist.That being said, whether or not there is a god is not the problem. Organized religion on the other hand.......

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Mar 25, 2010, at 11:23 AM

Hickory, his message is a great reminder for us all. Yes, I cried with him.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Mar 25, 2010, at 10:07 AM

Oklahoma Reader

The evidence and math is conclusive and the physical laws of the Universe are fact. Thus God, the sum total of all the laws of the Universe, must exist. With out the laws of the Universe, we and it would not exist in any recognizable form.

...and our capacity for thought in fact appears to be infinite as well, mate.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 25, 2010, at 4:11 AM

Is it not vain to be certain that there is a God?

Consider that our minds are finite, and that none of us is free from error. Consider that one may not have considered all necessary considerations before arriving at a conclusion.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Mar 25, 2010, at 1:35 AM

America's version of the modern day Heinrich Himmler shouted down by patriotic Americans:

with video


...and rightly so...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 25, 2010, at 1:08 AM

Well NanaDot,

actually I am a deep believer in God.

I don't believe in any of the 3 Christian Gods, nor do I believe in any of the over 100,000 Hindu Gods, nor do I believe God is an old man with a long beard living on the clouds in the sky.

I, like the late Carl Sagan, believe that God is the sum total of all the laws of the Universe.

Unlike most other religious beliefs, mine are based in testable, verifiable, repeatable facts. There is no magic involved, there is no speculation, and faith is not required or recommended. In my belief system, God is proven with out any doubt and the proof lies in scientific methodology, mathematics, and in the discoveries of such notable "prophets" as Newton, Einstein, Hawking, and Kaku.

So if anyone ever called me an atheist, they would be completely wrong.

I am a rationalist...but I am not an atheist.

What separates me from other religious folks besides the fact that all of my religious beliefs are facts, is that I don't believe in magic.

After all...who in their right mind believes in magic in the 21st Century?

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 25, 2010, at 12:50 AM


I completely understand how you feel, and as the last 2 elections prove -- the majority of Americans share your sentiments.

However, I would like to point out the these racist pigs we see at Republican/Teabagger "rallies" are in fact the mainstream conservatives.

and its another good reason why...


Its an election year...let's send another message to the Republicans...cooperate with the majority or lose your seat in Congress.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Mar 24, 2010, at 10:32 PM


Thanks for posting those links. They were very interesting.

Its a shame that the Party of Lincoln is now the Party of racism, religious bigotry, and hatred of the physically disabled.

Lincoln must be turning in his grave at this point.

The larger question is how long are We the People going to take this garbage off the Republican/Teabaggers?

We have an election coming up and I know I will be voting against every Republican on the ballot in my district. Its time we throw these Republican bums to the curb!!


-- Posted by news across on Wed, Mar 24, 2010, at 9:21 PM


The neocons place their highest priority on returning us to a Bush-like dictatorship.

When they complain about having cheaper, better health care access, what they are really doing is concentrating on their priority -- returning us to a Bush-like, ultra-right-wing, dictatorship.

That is their only goal.

They could not care less about your access to health care.

They have an agenda that is focused around establishing a Bush-like dictatorship and that is all they care about right now.

Later, in their minds, when they are back in the driver's seat, they will turn their attention to their other concerns such as starting more wars -- at your expense, killing more brown-skinned people in foreign Nations that pose no direct threat to us -- at your expense, further bankrupting our economy and making the rich-fat-cats in Big Insurance and Big Banking even richer -- at your expense.

Yes they know there will be time to strip you of your civil rights as well later on when they manage the political coup they are currently working on.

and yet even more reasons that...


We have an election this year. Let's send the conservatives a message...again...because they sure didn't get the message in the last 2 elections...and because out future depends on it.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Mar 24, 2010, at 8:09 PM

what the ...

once again, you misconstrue things that are said on this site - apparently in an effort to advance your own agenda.

i did not defend or oppose the bill on this site. of course i would rather see the money spent fighting wars overseas used to help citizens of our own country - the hungry, the ill, the weak, the uneducated, and so on.

i simply stated that the war has begun - that the way this bill was passed has opened the door for months if not years of litigation that will draw the process out even longer.

for the record, i think the bill has some very good points. in ike skelton's 4th congressional district alone, according to the House of Representatives, the bill would:

- improve coverage for 390,000 residents who already have health insurance

- give tax credits and other assistance to up to 187,000 families and 14,900 small businesses to help them afford coverage

- improve medicare for 120,000 people and close the prescription "donut hole"

- extend coverage to 51,000 uninsured residents

- guarantee that 11,400 residents with pre-exisiting conditions can obtain and keep coverage

- protect 1,200 families from health care cost related bankruptcy

- allow 53,000 young adults to obtain coverage on their parents' insurance plans

- provide millions of dollars in new funding for 13 community health centers

- reduce the cost of uncompensated care for hospitals by $74 million annually

those are good things. and i hope they don't fall by the wayside because of the war that will now be waged. again - my comment was about the war within our borders - not about republicans vs democrats vs tea party vs whatever.

i think there are those who frequent this site who just can't wrap their minds around folks who don't follow in lock step procession this or that party line. folks who think outside of - or across - party boundaries may be the answer to our nation's problems.

just my humble opinion


-- Posted by zeke on Wed, Mar 24, 2010, at 8:56 AM

"Senate may be Republicans' last stand:

GOP is hoping to sabotage the 'fixes' package with amendments"


Unbelievable...but yes folks the Republicans are officially at war with the People.

Fortunately, we have another election coming up -- the National Congressional Elections.


-- Posted by news across on Wed, Mar 24, 2010, at 2:54 AM

U. S. ranks among worst five countries on food safety. http://laudyms.wordpress.com/2010/03/22/...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Mar 24, 2010, at 1:16 AM

The following link leads to an interesting commentary showing that the middle class has slowly evaporated in the last forty years.


-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Mar 24, 2010, at 1:08 AM

New "USA Today" poll: 49% support new health bill, 40% oppose. A reversal in plurality since the bill has become law. Obama's poll rating on the work he has done to fix health care far better than that of congress. Democratic congress members rate higher than Republicans.

Read details: http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Mar 24, 2010, at 12:47 AM


Yes sad as it may be, capitalism requires a large mass of poor to exploit and a small middle class to control the poor.

Capitalism is a failed economic system.

Its time we as a people find something that works for all our citizens...not just the very richest.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Mar 23, 2010, at 10:11 PM

In here are some interesting data on poverty in the U.S.:


This seems to indicate one fundamental barrier to reaching 0%.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Mar 23, 2010, at 9:37 PM

ND - I read that article, and all I can say is, if there's a sane place in this country, I sure would like to know about it.

Here's one that fits the same mold:


-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Mar 23, 2010, at 9:23 PM


Nice work!!

Good on ya mate!

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Mar 23, 2010, at 6:47 PM


Yes I do support a 0% poverty goal, and I think it is achievable and sustainable.

However, it will require most of us to get over a life-time of constant, often subtle, capitalist propaganda before we can accept that maybe capitalism is really just another economic system and not necessarily the best one available to us.

As to my figures, the links to my sources are there and they are all good, qualified sources.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Mar 23, 2010, at 6:45 PM


It is my understanding that it is not against the law, provided that the ATV is lisecnced and driven by a liscenced driver with insurance, but it has been a while since we last checked.

-- Posted by litlmissme on Tue, Mar 23, 2010, at 4:12 PM

Uh, actually News...

Your numbers read like they were posted by someone in Michael Steele's office - on the distorted side, taken at face value.

No one is arguing that some citizens weren't better off in some ways because of Johnson's effort, but the dip to 11% you report is a far cry from 0%, which was the target.

To use the tired and boring expression, we're both preaching to the choir here - the choir being you and me.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Mar 23, 2010, at 3:41 PM


your linked article is just plain scary but, accurate

-- Posted by Maynard G Krebbs on Tue, Mar 23, 2010, at 3:19 PM

This was interesting.....


The sun is shining! It is a beautiful day!!!


-- Posted by missy08 on Tue, Mar 23, 2010, at 1:55 PM

Lemme ask you a question Zeke. Would you rather spend a trillion dollars on an unnesscessary, illegal war or would you rather spend the money on the heatlh and well being of your fellow man?

What would Jesus do, Zeke? The progressives won? That's a helluva way to look at it. I think we have all won. It's not perfect and it never will be but it's a start.

Next time hear the GOP crying like the spoiled little congressman that they are remember this: all of the good things in the bill, and there are many, the GOP wants to take away from you, Zeke.

This bill will benefit you, me and everyone else.

I think the GOP is more frightened that the electorate will actually start to embrace these policies for the good of everyone.

If they want my respect, they will quit crying and start working on even improving the bill further. I suspect what we will see is that they will waste valuble time trying to make sure that it doesn't work so they can give us the 'ol "I told you so. Meanwhile you and I will suffer.

It's all about winning and losing alright. I guess who the winner is depends a lot on perspective.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Mar 23, 2010, at 12:57 PM

Time to celebrate. Let's light up another joint and do another line! We now get free health care in addition to free food and free housing. We'll never have to think about that 4 letter word again (work).

-- Posted by Maynard G Krebbs on Tue, Mar 23, 2010, at 12:54 PM

The poll here show that just over 50% of respondents believe the new health care law is "an unwarranted intrusion by government."

In that case, I think all the people who subscribe to that belief should immediately take action by 1) opting out of Medicare altogether, if they are currently receiving it, 2) making it clear to the government that when they turn 65 and become eligible for Medicare, they don't want to participate, and 3) paying for their own medical insurance, with no assistance from an employer or, especially, from the government.

For those who believe that government should take no role in health care, then to do anything but refuse to take any help at all is to spoil the power of their argument.

And for the rest of us, the money saved might go a long way towards reducing the potential costs of the new legislation.

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Tue, Mar 23, 2010, at 12:46 PM

looks like the progressives won the opening battle for the health care bill. i'm afraid that the fight is apparently on and will be fought long and hard in the courts.

maybe it's time for real democrats to stand up and fight - to say enough is enough - to take back their party. true democrats - not leftist progressives - may be our only hope.

hey - maybe moderate republicans and moderate democrats can work together to chase the progressives out of washington come november and then again in 2012.


-- Posted by zeke on Tue, Mar 23, 2010, at 12:15 PM


For your convenience.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Mar 23, 2010, at 3:16 AM

Looking for legitimate villains on which to refocus your anger legitimately? Read on:http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/21/opinion/21rich.html

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Mar 23, 2010, at 3:09 AM

Uh..actually Slater...

10 years after Johnson began his war on poverty, poverty rates dropped to their lowest rates on record...11.1% and then under President Bush we reached our highest level of poverty on record.

The largest segment of poor in the USA -- the elderly -- were 28.5% in 1966 and fell to as low as 10.1% as a direct result of President Johnson's War on Poverty when he successfully passed and signed the Economic Opportunity Act of 1964. This single Federal Act revolutionized how the Federal government directly targeted specific groups of poor for assistance and dramatically reduced poverty in the USA.

1.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_Pove...

(with end notes to qualified sources)

2.) http://www2.volstate.edu/geades/FinalDoc...

3.) http://www.irp.wisc.edu/publications/foc...

4.) http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-4127951....

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Mar 23, 2010, at 2:05 AM

Good points by all tonight. Would it not be great if our representatives in congress could be as positive as this bunch. What say you rr3, and Mrxray? Lemonade from lemons? What about we have lemonade, let's make sure everybody has some?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Mar 23, 2010, at 12:47 AM

Well, the beginning to health-care reform will be on the books tomorrow.

Now we have to start badgering for equitable refinements which most likely will take a good three terms of the Democrats having enough of a majority to succeed, unless by some miracle the Republicans decide to join society and actually make meaningful contributions for a change.

How asinine can it be that one political party has to do all the work while the other is dragged along kicking and screaming like children?

Along with the badgering, we need to throw out the incumbents at every election until the handwriting on the wall becomes clear that we're tired of their ways, ALL of them, not just one party.

ND, Jo, Hickory, News, OKR, count me in.

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Mar 22, 2010, at 11:53 PM

News - when you say that Johnson's War on Poverty was a success for the elderly you must be referring to Medicare and Medicaid.

By the late 1950s the post-war economy was cooling so one of the first things Kennedy did after taking officce was to cut taxes for those in the highest bracket. At the same time the baby boomers started joining the labor force and economic conditions steadily improved for several years.

If I remember correctly, around 15% of the American people were living at or below the poverty level threshhold calculation when Johnson's initiative was put into motion, and when he left office in January 1969 that number hadn't declined. The Vietnam debacle and social unrest took away much of the impetus that may have made his efforts generally successful.

Although the War on Poverty experienced isolated successes, overall it was a failure since it had no meaningful impact on helping people move up the economic ladder. Today we now know the welfare programs have created and perpetuated a generational condition of poverty rather than eradicating it as was the intent.

All those "best minds and thoughts" Johnson talked about focusing on the problem failed for a lack of real understanding why the condition exists to begin with.

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Mar 22, 2010, at 11:33 PM

I think the passage of this health care bill is a good first step.

Thanks to the Democrats millions of uninsured will now have coverage. In addition, Big Insurance will no longer be able to deny as many people coverage as before this bill passed.

However, now the We the People have gotten Congress to take a first responsible step towards universal health care access, its time Congress begin looking at expanding medicare coverage to all citizens and lawful alien residents as has been done successfully in quite a number of nations World-wide.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Mar 22, 2010, at 8:09 PM

I was aware of that, but he's a democrat and it was the democrat party that did this to us. I am also aware that when the democrat leadership knows that a vote by a particular congresscritter is political suicide, they understand a "no" vote with a wink, wink, nudge, nudge. . . so long as their agenda is moved ahead with the necessary number of votes. Had it been necessary, old Ike would have joined lockstep with his bosses and done what he was told to do.

-- Posted by Nonnymus on Mon, Mar 22, 2010, at 7:12 PM

Nonnymus you sound as if you are upset that Congress passed the bill by saying "Congress has turned against the citizens." If that is the case you should know that Ike was one of the few Democrats that voted no.

-- Posted by broke-n-busted on Mon, Mar 22, 2010, at 6:01 PM

Tell ya what. I'm about done with the screamers, right and left. Keith Olberman and Rush Limbaugh are both part of the problem, just feeding rage to drive ratings. I like what David Frum has to say here. Better to start to work fixing the problems with the new health care law than to exploit the situation to further inflame ideological tensions. But of course, flames are more interesting than making good policy. Always have been.


-- Posted by taxedpayer on Mon, Mar 22, 2010, at 5:59 PM

Congress has turned against the citizens. It's time to flush the toilet and vote out these festering incumbents. Ike Skelton, better plan to move back to MO soon.

-- Posted by Nonnymus on Mon, Mar 22, 2010, at 5:36 PM


I certainly favor public works projects provided those welfare recipients who work those projects are paid a true living wage.

Only under capitalism are such programs as welfare necessary. In a scientifically planned economy, everyone that wants work, has work -- and at good, family-supporting wages.

The problems is not the poor.

The problem is capitalism.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Mar 22, 2010, at 5:06 PM


Actually Johnson's War on Poverty did work.

Under Johnson, the largest segment of poor in our Nation -- the elderly -- moved up considerably in income as a direct result of the War on Poverty.

Unfortunately, under Bush Sr.'s policies, the elderly again became the largest segment of our poorest citizens.

The War on Poverty was working...and then the Republicans instituted policies that wittled away at Democrat successes in reducing the level of poverty in America.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Mar 22, 2010, at 5:02 PM

Here is my take on the welfare issue. Welfare should not be a way of life, but a temporary helping hand. It shouldn't carry over from generation to generation. I have known people who have needed help and moved on. I see more and more of the generational welfare recipients today. It is alarming to me that continue to happen.

There are certainly those who deserve and legitimately disabled, but again I have seen some people keep trying this way and that until they get disability but can water ski for example.

What is the answer? Well, I don't have that answer.

I personally think if an able bodied person signs up for welfare, they should be told be at this address first thing tomorrow morning to pick up trash, or to work in a community garden, ect ect. You can earn a check.

-- Posted by litlmissme on Mon, Mar 22, 2010, at 4:55 PM

OKR - I wasn't disagreeing with ND, and I don't disagree with you. There was a time when families were expected to look out for the members, but obviously that time is far in the past. My statement was my way of saying I don't agree with the way most social services are dispensed, not that all of them should be abolished.

I do agree with the point MrXray was making about how the welfare system treats its recipients as second-class citizens, e.g., "on the dole," a government expression. Government action on any subject does what's sufficient and satisfactory by analysis, and in the case of welfare, that system promotes dependency and does nothing to give people a hand up.

Welfare is supposedly intended to offer assistance for the children of families in need, but it ends up perpetuating the "cycle of poverty." It would've been very interesting to see the outcome of what Lyndon Johnson's War on Poverty. We can blame the Vietnam conflict for draining resources that might have been instrumental in furthering his Great Society, but we'll never know if his efforts could have succeeded. Those on the half-empty side of the tank will say it wouldn't have worked, but no one can say with certainty either way.

End of Part I

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Mar 22, 2010, at 1:54 PM


The link in the poll question isn't working.

-- Posted by Scarpetta on Mon, Mar 22, 2010, at 1:36 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Fixed. Thanks for pointing out the problem!

people tend to read what they want into anything that is said here. unbelievable.


-- Posted by zeke on Mon, Mar 22, 2010, at 8:31 AM

ooops! My post should have said "bad behavior by 'some'".........

The sun IS shining! Yay!

Have a great day!


-- Posted by missy08 on Mon, Mar 22, 2010, at 8:16 AM

news, I don't see a post where mrxray is trying to "rationalize or justify racism". I do see a post that gives examples of bad behavior by Democrats/liberals. One name he forgot to include is Fred Phelps.

Well, health care reform passed. I hope and pray this "works".

I *think* the sun is going to shine today. The sky is blue, there is a glow in the east....

Have a great day!


-- Posted by missy08 on Mon, Mar 22, 2010, at 7:09 AM

Slater families are so far flung now that it is no longer practical to think that we could even begin to take care of our own elderly. Look at how far away from dear old Saline County so many of us are who post here. Many of us left family behind.

After WWII we underwent such a great scattering of the population that someone, or something had to take on some of the roles formerly provided by adjacent family.

Under the circumstances I do not see how we could get along without social services like Social Security, Medicare, Meals on Wheels, and a myriad of other services for the elderly. I am grateful for socialism. It is not a bad word, it is just that bad people try to make it so.

The other great upheaval was the full expansion to the two wage earner family. No longer was there an able bodied adult at home to do all those things that are now done by social services, private, and government. By the way what a sweet deal for the corporatists. Two wage earners for less than the price of two when that change occured.

Just how was it that so many families got by with one income living a middle class life style, and now it takes two incomes for most to maintain a middle class life style?

No thank you, I will take government management over corporate management every time. We can't stand another sweet deal from the corporatists like the flim flam one earner/two earner deal. The real problem is that corporate, and government are too much one in the same. That is why the only viable solution is that we take back the government from the corporatists.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Mar 22, 2010, at 1:25 AM

ND - you've presented a valid argument and one I've done a poor job responding to, but it's a good topic for discussion.

However, at this time I'm going to have to sign out, but I'll carry on later today.

Good night to all you friendly HootOwls. Well, friendly or otherwise. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Mar 22, 2010, at 12:51 AM

OKR - I thought you were about to say you nearly fell over Cheetah's Paddy O'Furniture.

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Mar 22, 2010, at 12:45 AM

ND - once upon a time families were expected to take care of their own. That's a good idea, but obviously not practical in some instances, so some adjunct entity would be necessary. I can't say at the moment about the makeup of that, no more than I would say that we should turn back the hands of time a hundred years.

I spent three years working on the San Antonio city's community initiatives homeless program, mainly in policy and intake procedures development for the program, and in no more than ten years the program was abandoned. My experience may be anecdotal, but in hindsight it turned out to be just another flash in the pan with lots of federal dollars peed down the drain. All of us who worked on it, me included, were either ignorant about our target population or didn't really care enough to work harder at it. It seemed that the age-old saying applied - the government is always right and never wrong.

Privatization isn't the answer, either, as you pointed out, for the same reasons. Would it help us if we got serious about studying how the Japanese go about doing social services?

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Mar 22, 2010, at 12:40 AM

Howdy Slater, don't mind if I do pull up a chair.

UpseDaisy is that you I see sittin over there in the shadows? Mighty quiet tonight.

News good to see that you are still after em.

I almost slipped, and fell on the floor as I stepped on to the porch. We older folks gotta watch our step here (all that blood from our bleeding hearts ya know.)

rr3, Mrxray, don't be stirrin up to much ruckus now, try to keep the whoppers at a minimum.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Mar 22, 2010, at 12:34 AM

Jo I am with you my man.

NanaDot Your compassion, and concern are exemplary.

MrXray what solved problem? How about children starving to death? Without certain social programs American kids would be poster children such as those of, Biafra, Ethiopia, et al.

We may get there yet if those dangerous people who would cut off every social program get total control. Wouldn't the United States then present a pretty picture to the world.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Mar 22, 2010, at 12:24 AM

Hey OKR!

You know, I wasn't aware that downtown Marshall is still a viable commercial zone.

Hand me another Krispy Kreme and pull up a chair. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Mar 22, 2010, at 12:10 AM


One point I believe we can all agree on is that the government - at any level - has no business doing human services provision, since the intent has never been to elevate the individual out of dire circumstances.

I agree that few entitlement programs actually make a significant different in the lives of those they're intended to help. The red tape sees to that - the red tape and poor design and implementation.

The fundamental problem is that programs are developed by the wrong people. Think about your kitchen cabinets, for example. They were designed by a man, the person who knows the least about the functionality of kitchen cabinets. The same goes for most entitlement programs. They've been developed by people who are the least qualified to do so.

While we're about change, let's not stop until everything is working sensibly and to the benefit of this NATION and ALL of its people.

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Mar 22, 2010, at 12:02 AM

Just took a stroll around the web site. Can't believe all the consternation that donuts has stirred up. Folks around here take their donuts SERIOUSLY.

Check this un out. ;)


-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Mar 22, 2010, at 12:00 AM


Your attempt to rationalize and justify racism makes me want to up-chuck.

But I am not a bit surprised by your position.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Mar 21, 2010, at 10:54 PM


Reading your comments, I can't help but have hope for our Nation.

Standing your ground in the face of fascism demonstrates your courage and your refusal to let the fascists destroy our Nation.

Good on ya mate!!!

I stand with you Jo, I won't back down,...and there are millions of us that refuse to let the very worst elements of our Nation take over our Country.

Its time conservatives, the Teabagger racists, and their fellow travelers, the Fascists, learn that innuendo and smear tactics just don't work anymore.

We the People will not stand down!!

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Mar 21, 2010, at 10:52 PM

Health Care Reform Passes. The biggest change in health care policy in nearly fifty years. Favor or oppose, history was made tonight!

-- Posted by modemocrat on Sun, Mar 21, 2010, at 10:38 PM

If not slavery then it IS a mental disorder... dependency. And the mental disorder of dependency is a bleeding heart liberal issue unless it is the dependency of the people on the government.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Mar 21, 2010, at 10:15 PM

Slater... lol Einstein.. funny

maybe I missed it or did not post it on this forum.. but I am still waiting for an answer to exactly what social problem that any entitlement program has actually SOLVED. I mean welfare has not cured, nor made dramatically reduced the numbers on welfare... if welfare was functioning to actually SOLVE the social problem of poverty then we would have seen a gradual reduction of the numbers of poor people. Government entitlements have not solved anything social 'injustice' but only created a class of people who are mentally and physically dependent on the government. Is that not a form of slavery?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Mar 21, 2010, at 10:14 PM


I guess you easily forget the PETA people throwing BLOOD..er red paint on people and other activities... or Code Pink (leader of which has slept in the White House if I recall) who hung Bush in effigy and stated horrible horrible things about Bush. Or How about the Gay and Lesbians who stormed into churches and harassed and threatened churches.

What about Pelosi and Reid and their fellow Dem politicians who call anyone who opposes their ideas racist or puts them on national watch lists while ignoring real terrorists

THOSE things are justified by the left every time... just real Americans see the hypocricy.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Mar 21, 2010, at 10:10 PM

RR3YVO: No,NO,NO, I'll be one of the old dude's standing on the front line, trying too change things! No NO its not in my nature to run! Im too **** old to start running now! You probably don't remember the March's during the Vietnam War, There were some,**** rough ones. No, No,to leave would make me ill! Im sure there are some other old dudes on this blog,that would be in the same line with thier mouths running! HA

-- Posted by Jo on Sun, Mar 21, 2010, at 9:39 PM

jo I enjoyed your comment keep them coming. One thing about a free country bcat you are free to leave. Just stating a fact.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Mar 21, 2010, at 5:28 PM

Hey Jo! You might want to consider a move to Cuba or Venezuela. They both have a First Rate government. As apposed to the U.S., all of their citizens love their governments. Rarely do you hear an opposing voice; at least not more than once.

-- Posted by Bcat on Sun, Mar 21, 2010, at 4:51 PM

Hey Slater! The snow is pretty and since they are predicting 50s and 60s for the next few days, I can stand it.

Have a great day!


-- Posted by missy08 on Sun, Mar 21, 2010, at 3:09 PM


I love that pristine look of a fresh snowfall. Nothing looks better to me than undisturbed snow in the country.

Sorry Missy! I still miss it even after 30 years in the land of 1-1/2 seasons.

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Mar 21, 2010, at 12:38 PM

Boy we have a lot of snow here! It sure is pretty! I'll bet we had close to 10 inches.

-- Posted by litlmissme on Sun, Mar 21, 2010, at 10:25 AM

I have spent the winter reading , and listening to Commentary ,about the problems this Country has, with this second grade Government! I've never took any of this that serious, thinking there is still enough sane People left in Washington to stop it, Until now! This Country is deteriorating to the point of no return! I don't think there is anyone in our Government, that can correct the problem? There could be such Civil unrest that everything comes apart! Our Military will be killing us. If you think about it ,we aren;t that different from these 3rd world Countries, in a flash, we could be just like them!Until our Employees gets a grip on helping the People, and in doing so ,helping the Country come back from all this hate we have for each other, and our Government!And they have set the tone.You can only push and drain the People so far, before they start taking think back! I hope we still have the gut's for an uprising. If not we are in deep doo doo! There is a feeling of something bad happening! Hope i'm wrong. Some time's i feel like i've lived to long , when i see our honor in this World being questioned!

-- Posted by Jo on Sun, Mar 21, 2010, at 3:23 AM

Oklahoma Reader

This is what happens in a de facto one party system.

We are victims of the Unitary Fascist Party -- the Republicans plus the Democrats.

Until we as a people decide enough is enough, the Unitary Fascist will mean a continuing national spiral to the bottom of the World pile.

I think sometimes we think that having nuclear weapons makes us to big to fail. Yet there is Pakistan...large nuclear arsenal capable of multiple nuclear strikes any place on the planet and a large population...yet they have an apparently permanent 3rd World economy.

This is where the Unitary Fascist Party is leading us. Look to Pakistan if you want to see our future...if something doesn't change soon.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Mar 21, 2010, at 3:03 AM

Thank you for the compliment Slater.

Often I can't make rhyme, nor reason out of things. Sometimes I can make rhyme, or reason out of things. Once in a while I hit the jackpot, and am able to do both. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Mar 21, 2010, at 1:47 AM

I posted the following comment under one of the news stories. I believe that it has relevance here, on the "Speak Out" blog. So here it is.

LuckyMomma who is going to pay for the "treatment" this unfortunate child needs?

I notice that a lot of posters on these "slice of life" articles presented by the MDN, e.g. kids in trouble, drug problems, mental, and emotional problems, that in various ways involve criminality all want to do something with them. It varies from throw them in prison, to get them drug treatment, or counseling, to put them in a proper social environment. Any or all these answers have their place, and possibly would work.

Get real, we don't have enough public money to do any of these things on a consistent basis. We are a nation that is economically floundering.

These are the sort of things that happen when our leaders make arbitrary choices to fight two wars at the same time, spend tax payer dollars to bail out the rich, and allow American corporations to send jobs, and their corporate head quarters to foreign lands to dodge taxes.

Those leaders do not give a **** about our failing social system, and far too many of us don't really care that they do not give a ****. Far too many more of us are manipulated by what one party's leaders, or the other party's tell us to think. Both parties are archaic monsters more concerned about their own survival than what happens to our decaying social order, or our infrastructure for that matter. They continually set us off against one another to assure that we don't rise together, and demand a fair break for we second class human citizens of our once great nation

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Mar 21, 2010, at 1:37 AM

Any HootOwls slog their way through the snow and dead of night to come in for a spell?

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Mar 21, 2010, at 12:00 AM

^creative ability, that is. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Mar 20, 2010, at 11:56 PM

OKR, I've been meaning to say that I'm pleased to see you posting more of your verses. I've always admired anyone who has that ability.

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Mar 20, 2010, at 11:53 PM

Our talking about cell phones reminded me of the first blog I read in the MDN, written by JohnQ about texting. I made some flippant remark about the absurd nature of cell phone technology and someone called SecretAgentScarn (or something like that) called me an idiot because I'm from Slater. (heh heh) I was tempted to put him in his place, but saner thoughts prevailed.

My son-in-law has an iPhone which he likes very much, and my daughter has a Blackberry which she likes very much. I know virtually nothing about either of them except they seem to have plenty of features.

I have a cell phone which I keep around mainly for the times when the power goes off or the cable quits (I use an Internet phone service).

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Mar 20, 2010, at 11:45 PM


Yes I bounce between my phone and my computer. I have an iPhone, so it isn't too bad. At times it bounces or won't load all the way. Usually if you see text speak, I am likely on my phone...hard to break my habit on this keyboard. ;)

I admit I would be lost without my phone. Lol.

-- Posted by Scarpetta on Sat, Mar 20, 2010, at 10:59 PM

Everytime Obama pushes healthcare his approval ratings plummet


-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Mar 20, 2010, at 10:00 PM

Nanadot I am all for all of us doing our part but I feel that all the coal, oil, etc. was put here for a reason. I don't want to take this discussion off subject but in simple terms I don't feel like man can destroy this earth. We can definitely make it an ugly place to live in if our actions go unchecked but most of us like breathing clean air and drinking clean water. Our resources are given to us to use and to be good stewards of them.

Most of the solutions to "global warming" will have dire consequences for the working person by driving energy prices up substantially. When we devote all of our time to just survive what's left. When we spend a large portion of our money on energy cost, food and a place to live we don't spend it on other things. If your cost to live goes up say 50% will you take as many vacations? Probably not and that will mean more people out of work and it will snowball. People that we define as rich will be able to absorb the extra cost and still maintain a lifestyle. We saw a little example of this when gas went up to $4-$5 a gallon or more, people lose extra money to spend for fun. If that would have lasted longer we would have seen more negative effects of it.

I'm all for a clean earth but lets do it in a reasonable way by promoting alternative energy that is feasible and using what we have more efficiently but not do it to the detriment of others.

I did read your link and it was interesting he makes some good points not that I totally agree but I will read it again later, then maybe I will get more out of it.

Missy let it snow, let it snow........... gonna have to throw another log on the fire tonight.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Mar 20, 2010, at 8:35 PM

Scarpetta, you're doing this on your phone? You're braver than me, for sure! :)

Two days ago I tried deleting a message from my cell phone and managed to lock it up, I guess. It won't do anything now. Can you imagine what would happen if I tried getting online with it?

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Mar 20, 2010, at 8:15 PM

Slater, thank you again!! I should really get on a computer to try to follow along.

Oklahoma reader, I spoke with someone they figured that I would be-please let me get this right- liberal with a slight conservative lean. So then I asked about...right, left or center...they told me I am in the center. :) Now with that, I'm still very anxious to read your response.

-- Posted by Scarpetta on Sat, Mar 20, 2010, at 8:06 PM

Slater, your soooo bad. (You know that hurt to do that, don't you?)

Yeah, a break would be good. Forecast for tomorrow is 40. Monday should be about 50 and 60 on Tuesday. I can handle 60. Who cares if it SNOWS all night?

Heading west with Alex again.......


-- Posted by missy08 on Sat, Mar 20, 2010, at 8:05 PM

Missy, it's currently 43F and headed to the low 30s, and the wind has been howling for a while. You know, I never looked outdoors today! Don't have any idea if the sun showed it's face out their at all. Your due for a break soon. (heh heh)

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Mar 20, 2010, at 8:01 PM

News do you really know that the people carrying those signs were conservative? Did you talk to them? Do you not think liberals have done the same thing to conservatives? What are the percentage of conservatives that resort to name calling and actually printing them on signs? Have you conducted test and can show the results? Maybe conduct a test of conservatives vs. liberals that call each other names on signs and see who would win. That would be fun don't you think?

Still snowing here have a nice day.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Mar 20, 2010, at 7:58 PM

I was thinking about his bill, ND. It's a practical solution which I'm guessing wouldn't do anywhere close to as much to put us in the poor house that this Sequoia-turned-into-a-healthcare-bill will most likely do.

If the public can't see through that shroud of crookedness up there we know as Congress...

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Mar 20, 2010, at 7:57 PM

Slater, you are sooo lucky. Did you see sunshine today?

news, let your fingers do the walking. You can do a simple internet search for that just like you can anything else. I am not going to post a bunch of links that lead to junk/trash/cr*p. thieves? pedophiles? racist pigs? Wow! Did you get up on the wrong side of the bed?

rock chalk? *giggle*grin*giggle*



-- Posted by missy08 on Sat, Mar 20, 2010, at 7:55 PM

Xray, David Brooks of the NYT may be about the most objective conservative reporting the news, and I never saw him write about Pelosi blocking GOP attempts to subbmit their own versions of healthcare reform (not that she wouldn't try, I'm sure).

Regardless of which side has done what, the bill needs to go directly to the shredder and, as you mentioned, a more focused and streamlined version needs to be drafted without all the previous lolly-gagging and nonsense that's gone on.

I do hope the voting public dumps all the incumbents seeking re-election this fall.

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Mar 20, 2010, at 7:38 PM


If you have news of liberals openly carrying signs calling our Congressmen the "N" word and the "F" word...I would love to know about it.

What we do KNOW is that conservatives do carry signs that call our Congressmen the N word and the F word.

I judge a person by their character...and these conservatives have very bad character as does anyone trying to defend them. I don't associate with thieves and pedophiles...and I don't associate myself with racist pigs either.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Mar 20, 2010, at 7:27 PM


I was just pondering Einstein's "On the Electrodynaics of Moving Bodies," and I can see some of those far left "bleeding heart liberals" as you call them falling under the control of Einstein's relativity and ending up sitting next to you on the other side.

YIKES!!!!!! What a combo that would be! :)

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Mar 20, 2010, at 7:26 PM

Slater: the liberal/Dem distortion of reality claims the Repubs did not have bills purposed... they have off and on all along but pelosi would not ever let them come up for debate or discussion or vote.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Mar 20, 2010, at 7:20 PM

I still say that this huge bill (2600 pages or more) that now includes all sorts of extra stuff that does not pertain to health care... like student loans???? is stupid.

The politicians dont even know all that is in the bill and cannot possibly understand all the consequences nor the REAL cost that we will pay for it down the road.

ANY logical or reasonable person would have to agree that small bills targeted at specific aspects of the health care industry should be used and that way they can monitor and quickly fix any bad consequences from those small bills.

I know that is not 'sexy' to all of you liberal bleeding hearts that want socialist bill that only addresses health insurance and not the actual cost of health care....

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Mar 20, 2010, at 7:19 PM

Xray, I'd admit to enjoying that, too, except I promised to try and be nice. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Mar 20, 2010, at 7:17 PM

rock chalk, Jay Hawks!!!! lol they lost.... was sort of fun to watch their fans cry...

was that mean?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Mar 20, 2010, at 7:15 PM

Recently I heard someone say that the healthcare bill includes 130 amendments from the Republicans. Who knows about them and what they contribute to the makeup of the bill? How come the Republicans never offered a bill of their own?

I agree that this one needs to be binned and another one created, but, in my simple-minded way of thinking about this subject, it boils down to a matter of Murphy's Law prevailing.

Pelosi shows her skillet-headed mentality every time she opens her mouth.

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Mar 20, 2010, at 7:14 PM

Missy, it isn't snowing here!

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Mar 20, 2010, at 7:07 PM

rr3, I agree. Bad bill. Start over.

Did you hear President Obama say today "instead of having five tests when you go to the doctor you just get one"? Good idea. Unless you are sick and *need* the five tests. Or the doctor is still trying to diagnose you....... (transcript http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/20/health...

I think what really is upsetting is all the extra "stuff" that has been crammed into this bill.

Oh well.... As much as we gripe, it's out of our hands. I made my calls, sent my mail.....



-- Posted by missy08 on Sat, Mar 20, 2010, at 6:59 PM

news I really thing they need to start over on this health. I think we have a bad bill and it will only get worse the direction its going. They don't even know whats in it. Pelosi said that we have to pass it so we can find out what's in it. Don't you think we should know beforehand?

Australia may have good health care but if they do your government is better at running things then ours.


-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Mar 20, 2010, at 6:33 PM

news, do you really believe that all the negativity is one-sided? Do you really believe that? Do you really believe that only the "neocons" are capable of such? Really?

Still snowing.


-- Posted by missy08 on Sat, Mar 20, 2010, at 6:29 PM

Wow nanadot is that what I get for being nice. I really didn't follow your meaning could you be little more specific.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Mar 20, 2010, at 6:24 PM

"A swarm of health care protesters, many holding Tea Party signs, heckled members of Congress with racial epithets and abusive language as the House votes on health care reform."


How long will we allow the racist pigs to decide our health care access issues?

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Mar 20, 2010, at 6:12 PM

Is Tennessee the team that gave KU its first loss this season?

I'm following the BigXII games here on the computer and see that so far KU is getting all it wants from Northern Iowa.

I've been a follower of MU sports since I was around 13, and now I have to follow/root for Baylor (where my daughter went to school) and Texas A&M (where my son-in-law went to school). By the time the seasons are done I'm about worn slick. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Mar 20, 2010, at 5:44 PM

I'll give you 42 days to think about it. By then, Spring should be in full bloom and the weather shouldn't be the distraction that it may be now.

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Mar 20, 2010, at 5:23 PM

slater it really did not tell me anything

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Mar 20, 2010, at 5:20 PM

Ha! You're close, but no cigar, Hickory.

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Mar 20, 2010, at 5:15 PM


Are you about to begin gearing up for another fishing trip to Blind Pony Lake? Maybe starting to think about it, if the weather would move on and allow Spring to enter?

Looks as if you'll have to keep those plants indoors for a time.

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Mar 20, 2010, at 4:55 PM

rr3, how are Gore and the "others like him" living that's different from the rest of us?

Is that your way of telling us he's saying, "do as I say and not as I do?"

Bcat says Gore is "a joke," but I don't see how anyone can say his message is a fabrication when ream after ream of documented evidence to the contrary continues to pile up.

I see a whhite duck followed by a row of white ducklings, and I see a black duck followed by a row of black ducklings, but I don't see a gray duck followed by a row of gray ducklings.

What does that tell you?

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Mar 20, 2010, at 4:32 PM

Nanadot good article and I agree that we should be aware of our effects on the environment. It just seems those like Gore aren't willing to live like they want us to.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Mar 20, 2010, at 4:14 PM

Scarpetta I have not forgotten you terrific question re: liberalism/conservatism. the waters are so muddied by various flotsam, and jetsam that positions have sunk on one side, and popped up on the other. I promise my friend that I will address the question. I have actually spent time thinking about it...still thinking...sorry.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Mar 20, 2010, at 3:06 PM


Missy said this:

"Kay is one of my favorite medical examiners! I don't care much for her other series, I think there are only a few books in it but, I can't seem to "bond" with those characters. Currently, I am reading "I, Alex Cross". Alex hasn't solved the murder yet, but you know he will. My husband is a wonderful man, but when Lucas Davenport shows up and sweeps me off my feet, I am sooo out of here! I travel with Kindle since Mother's Day of last year. I love it!"

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Mar 20, 2010, at 1:32 PM

Ah ok Slater, thank you kindly. :) I wasn't sure if I had missed something.

-- Posted by Scarpetta on Sat, Mar 20, 2010, at 1:07 PM


In one post, Missy ended by saying she was off to bed to read about the exploits of Alex Cross, a sleuth in some books written by James Patterson.

That's what prompted my question about the Cornwell books. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Mar 20, 2010, at 1:04 PM

First, sorry for that typo.

Second, I agree Slater I enjoy the comments by Jo. I don't get the "I'm better than you" feeling while I read them.

-- Posted by Scarpetta on Sat, Mar 20, 2010, at 12:36 PM

I hate to change this topic but I have a question. I think it was Slater who asked Missy if she reads Patricia Cornwell. Now, I'm on my phone so maybe things aren't loading correctly...but I can't seem to locate an answer asto why Slater asked that.

I'm sorry if I got the user names wrong, I in no way intend the names I used in a negative way. :) thanks again

-- Posted by Scarpetta on Sat, Mar 20, 2010, at 12:33 PM


I wish you'd stop beating yourself. Just because you may not have a diploma from some college or university doesn't make you a dummy by any stretch of the imagination.

In my estimation you have a much broader understanding of the world than most people, and your comments are always well thought out and clearly stated.

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Mar 20, 2010, at 12:29 PM

Miss Marple, I'm sure there is confusion because of the Mizzou Arena, formerly known as "Paige Arena" and also because of her alleged "relationship" with a coach at Mizzou.....


Have a great day!


-- Posted by missy08 on Sat, Mar 20, 2010, at 10:05 AM

Uhhhh, Hickory, did you actually read the link about the "WalMart heiress?" She attended USC, NOT Missouri.

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Sat, Mar 20, 2010, at 9:18 AM

missy08 you are welcome

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Mar 20, 2010, at 5:09 AM


Thanks for pointing that out sorry for not posting it correctly. Good job distracting from what was be discussed.

Thanks again

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Mar 20, 2010, at 5:07 AM

Do they still expel people who commit plagiarism at Universities?

I know they did when I was and undergrad. Back then a single act of plagiarism meant an automatic F in the course and expulsion from the University.

Plagiarism is a very serious matter, and with out question an unethical thing to do.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Mar 20, 2010, at 3:03 AM

Oh yes, one other thing rr3. On Mar 19th at 10:13 a. m. Missy08 said "thank you for sharing your ideas with me". Don't forget to tell her that she is welcome.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Mar 20, 2010, at 2:34 AM

rr3: Regarding your statement on March 19th, 2010.

I see you are still stealing from others to support your defense of God. I find that astounding.

Once again you posted a long apologia in response to another reader's question on the blog. There were no quote marks, there was no mention of a source, there was no link to a source. Once again you stole the material from someone else. Someone else that created the essay, and in fact owns it.

Here is an internet source for every word of it. http://www.carm.org/questions/about-god/...

Mr. Crump in addition to making it general knowlege, has spoken directly to you asking you not to do what you just did again. He also told you that it was plagiarism. He asked you instead to post a link to such material, or at the very least attribute it.

In case you do not understand what you have done let me define what you are (a plagiarist); "one guilty of artistic or literary theft". 'Webster's Third New International Dictionary'

So you defend Christianity, and God by thievery,and by flaunting the rules of the forum in which you speak.

I have scratched my head trying to figure out why you persevere. Some reasons that may have motivated you could be stupidity, but not ignorance because you were informed, or inconsideration for the property of other people, and the rules of this blog, perhaps just pig headed ,and lacking in respect for others...you can see where I am going...I could not think of a single reason that did not have a negative connotation. So I will just ask you as you may have a higher, more moral reason that I could not call to mind. Why do you persist?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Mar 20, 2010, at 2:16 AM

notdienst: Don't give up on any Educational opportunity! Take it from a dummy!

-- Posted by Jo on Sat, Mar 20, 2010, at 12:07 AM

Do I believe it? I don't know. More extreme weather patterns and melting glaciers might be a clue. Do I think it's man made? I don't know that either but all the crap we have belched into the atmosphere for the past century can't be a good thing. Is it just cyclical? Possibly, but that does'nt mean we shouldn't try to change our impact on the environment.

If you we're making a joke I apologize for not seeing that but It's just that so many people make that comment as if it's really supposed to mean no cold or snow anymore.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Mar 19, 2010, at 10:24 PM

rr3yv0: Just checkin' in with my one and only comment for the day. That "My God is...." thing you're doing. He's not "yours." Pretty sure he belongs to no one.

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Fri, Mar 19, 2010, at 10:11 PM

What the f......

I guess you're the one with all of the facts on "global warming". I don't suppose they came from Al Gores book and movie. What a joke! I'll give him credit though. He's got to be laughing all the way to the bank, with the Nobel Prize in hand as well.

-- Posted by Bcat on Fri, Mar 19, 2010, at 9:44 PM


I know it is a hoax and I knew that long before fox news. Do you believe it?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Mar 19, 2010, at 9:42 PM

Global warming on the way 3-6 inches of it.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Mar 19, 2010, at 9:07 PM

Really? Do you even understand what global warming means or do you just lap up the FOX news pablum?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Mar 19, 2010, at 9:18 PM

Snow, sleet and rain? Good excuse for watching basketball. Missouri won. Hooray. Wake Forest beat Texas. Hooray.

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Fri, Mar 19, 2010, at 9:14 PM

Global warming on the way 3-6 inches of it.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Mar 19, 2010, at 9:07 PM


I agree sounds like something I would read :)

-- Posted by litlmissme on Fri, Mar 19, 2010, at 6:05 PM


Still sweating typos mate..lol lol lol...come on now, surely a big boy like you can figure it out.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Mar 19, 2010, at 5:58 PM


Did you really say "i can see them [Isreal] wanting to rid it of the muslim's dome of the rock?"

That is lot like saying you can understand the Italians wanting to get rid of the Vatican.

The Dome of the Rock is one of the holiest sites in Islam.

If the Israelis ever did such a thing you would see almost 2 billion, extremely angry people going bizzerk all over the World. A multitude of Nations across the World -- including some very highly populated, well nuclear-armed Nations such as Pakistan, would immediately declare war on Israel and attack Israel. The ramifications of such an act would continue to be felt for the next millennium. If Israel ever did such a crazy thing the World would erupt into war the likes of which we have not seen since WW2 and Israel would likely cease to exist.

...but you say you can 'understand the Israelis wanting to do that.'


-- Posted by news across on Fri, Mar 19, 2010, at 5:16 PM


In the John Adams house the wall along one staircase is covered with a geometric-patterned wallpaper which creates a multi-dimensional look. Very cool, to my mind.

Don't give up on math. It does have its attractive side. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Mar 19, 2010, at 1:14 PM

A =

B =

C =

too much like algebra for me

but i think you may be on to something there


-- Posted by zeke on Fri, Mar 19, 2010, at 12:45 PM

why would the jewish nation want to destroy the temple mount? don't they need it to re-establish their earthly kingdom? you know - ashes of the red heifer and such? i can see them wanting to rid it of the muslim's dome of the rock, but that isn't destroying the temple mount. there is too much of their history there for them to want to destroy it, don't you think?

just askin


-- Posted by zeke on Fri, Mar 19, 2010, at 12:40 PM

ND, thanks for the links and the reminder about Eric Hoffer. I'd forgotten about him, somehow. :)

Campbell's presentation of Fromm's thoughts seems to do an injustice to Fromm's discussion. However, Fromm's examination of what he called the "True Believer" focused on the traits of the person with a consuming theistic belief.

I'd use a template intended to quantify stage-four development for the purpose of learning how many in the study group exhibit the "True Believer" trait.

Heh heh...you could say this is much like expending time and resources to study the mating habits of fruit flies when no fruit is endangered.

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Mar 19, 2010, at 12:19 PM

Cheetah and rr3,

Typically I don't read the long posts, maybe scan them. I have to admit, both of you have made some great points. Thank you for sharing your ideas with me. (I would say "us" but I don't want to assume that I can speak for everyone.)

Wouldn't it be a great world if we could all share ideas without fear of being verbally assaulted? I will admit to being a conservative. I will admit to being a Christian. I will also admit that I don't know how to fix all the problems in the world.

Thank you both.

The clouds are rolling in. Spring is in the air, but snow is on the horizon.....


-- Posted by missy08 on Fri, Mar 19, 2010, at 10:13 AM


Do you mean the Temple Mount? Oh that would not be a good idea lol. But if they do, so what? Buildings come, buildings go.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Mar 19, 2010, at 7:56 AM


Ok you say he cannot create a stone so heavy he cannot lift it.

There goes that almighty God thing since we now know that at least with in the Universe he is limited in his power and must comply with the laws of the Universe...that means no magic mate.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Mar 19, 2010, at 7:42 AM

Well then can God create a stone so heavy that even he cannot lift it?

Simple answer is: no

here's why

This question is representative of the type of paradoxes atheists use in attempts to prove that God cannot exist. It works like this. God is supposed to be omnipotent. If He is omnipotent, then He can create a rock so big that He can't pick it up. If He cannot make a rock like this, then He is not omnipotent. If He can make a rock so big He can't pick it up, then He isn't omnipotent either. Either way demonstrates that God cannot do something. Therefore God is not omnipotent. Therefore God does not exist. Are you with me so far.

Is this logical? A little. However, the problem is that this bit of logic omits some crucial information, therefore, it's conclusion is inaccurate.

What the above "paradox" lacks is vital information concerning God's nature. His omnipotence is not something independent of His nature. It is part of His nature. God has a nature and His attributes operate within that nature, as does anything and everything else.

For example, I have human nature. I can run. But, I cannot outrun a lion. My nature simply does not permit it. My ability to run is connected to my nature and I cannot violate it. So too with God. His omnipotence is connected to His nature since being omnipotent is part of what He is. Omnipotence, then, must be consistent with what He is and not with what He is not since His omnipotence is not an entity to itself. Therefore, God can only do those things that are consistent with His nature. He cannot lie because it is against His nature to do so. Not being able to lie does not mean He is not God or that He is not all powerful. Also, He cannot cease to be God. Since He is in all places at all times, if He stopped existing then He wouldn't be in all places at all time. Therefore, He cannot cease to exist without violating His own nature.

The point is that God cannot do something that is a violation of His own existence and nature. Therefore, He cannot make a rock so big he can't pick up, or make something bigger than Himself, etc. But, not being able to do this does not mean He is not God nor that He is not omnipotent. Omnipotence is not the ability to do anything conceivable, but the ability to do anything consistent with His nature and consistent with His desire within the realm of His unlimited and universal power which we do not possess. This does not mean He can violate His own nature. If He did something inconsistent with His nature, then He would be self contradictory. If God were self contradictory, He would not be true. Likewise, if He did something that violated his nature, like make a rock so big He can't pick it up, He would also not be true since that would be a self contradiction. Since truth is not self contradictory, as neither is God, if He were not true, then He would not be God. But God is true and not self contradictory, therefore, God cannot do something that violates His own nature.

Another way to look at it is realize that in order for God to make something so big He couldn't pick it up, He would have to make a rock bigger than Himself. Since He is infinite in size, He would have to make something that would be bigger than Himself. Since it is His nature to be the biggest thing in existence because He created all things, He cannot violate His own nature by making a rock that is larger than He.

Also, since a rock, by definition, is not infinitely big, then it isn't logically possible to make a rock, something that is finite in size, be infinite in size (no longer a rock) since only God is infinite in size. At dictionary.com, a rock is defined as a "Relatively hard, naturally formed mineral or petrified matter; stone. a) A relatively small piece or fragment of such material. b) A relatively large body of such material, as a cliff or peak. c) A naturally formed aggregate of mineral matter constituting a significant part of the earth's crust." A rock, by definition is not infinitely large. So, to say that the rock must be so big that God cannot pick it up is to say that the rock is no longer a rock.

What you are asking is that God become self contradictory as a proof He doesn't exist. Your assertion is illogical from the start. So what you are doing is trying to get God to be illogical. You want to use illogic to prove God doesn't exist instead of logic. It doesn't work and the "paradox" is self-refuting and invalid.

Hope that answers your question.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Mar 19, 2010, at 6:41 AM

All this religion talk leaves me thinking of the Family Guy episode I watched the other night. Season 4 Episode 18: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Fonz

-- Posted by Scarpetta on Fri, Mar 19, 2010, at 6:14 AM

rr3, I think I hated high school English class more than anyone! I have the horrible grades to prove it. When I went to college, I got very serious about education (seems that happens when you have to pay for it yourself..).

Kathy, thanks. I knew Eric was trying to trick me!

Slater, a "humor group" would be good. Of course, I find this forum pretty funny -- most of the time. *evil grin*

Kay is one of my favorite medical examiners! I don't care much for her other series, I think there are only a few books in it but, I can't seem to "bond" with those characters. Currently, I am reading "I, Alex Cross". Alex hasn't solved the murder yet, but you know he will. My husband is a wonderful man, but when Lucas Davenport shows up and sweeps me off my feet, I am sooo out of here! I travel with Kindle since Mother's Day of last year. I love it!

Waiting for the rain and snow.....

Have a great day!


-- Posted by missy08 on Fri, Mar 19, 2010, at 6:09 AM

Origin of the Universe - Stephen Hawking (1 of 5):


-- Posted by news across on Fri, Mar 19, 2010, at 5:12 AM


Well then can God create a stone so heavy that even he cannot lift it?

His power is limited. If he or she or they exist at all.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 18, 2010, at 11:01 PM

Missy, have you read any of Patricia Cornwell's books?

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Mar 18, 2010, at 10:51 PM

I've sort of followed the exchanges about religion, and I've just had an idea for a psychological research topic.

The French psychologist, Jean Piaget, offered his theory of cognitive development which he believed occurs in four stages, the last known as Formal Operations, where the individual is able to think and reason abstractly.

Although his theory is outdated, I think it would be interesting to study people like RR3 and others with a strong faith in God to learn how many of the study group meet the definition of Piaget's fourth stage.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Mar 18, 2010, at 10:32 PM

An unfortunate occurrence of microwaving among relative strangers is that many times the intende humor contained in a post is lost in translation.

Keep it up, Missy. I'm getting plenty of smiles from your lessons. :)

Who knows? I might even throw in another math problem or two, just for fun, and alot? allot? 42 days for the solution(s).

I wish we had a forum called The Laughing Hyena, or something along that line. Would anyone want to join me? Probably not.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Mar 18, 2010, at 10:12 PM


The power of my God is not limited to the physical laws of the universe. He is omnipotent.

My God has unlimited knowledge. He is omniscient.

My God is everywhere. He is omnipresent.

Sounds like you worship the Universe well my God created it. Look around and you can see my God. Look at the miracle of life, how we breath life, how we revolve around the sun, that's my God.

God is that Supreme Being who exists independent of the universe, who does not change, is absolute, transcends space and time, who is self aware, who is all-knowing, ever present, and can accomplish whatever he desires to accomplish.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Mar 18, 2010, at 9:48 PM

missy08 I m lukin 4wrd 2 2morows lesen.

Oops did I not use proper grammer or was that spelling I'm so confused. heh! heh!

I thing alot is two words: a lot

You can't prove by me I hated English class.

Have fun!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Mar 18, 2010, at 9:29 PM

Missy: Alot is NOT a word, at least not spelled that way. "I read a lot" is always 4 words. Allot is another matter, of course. "In my budget, I allot a lot of money for books." :)

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Thu, Mar 18, 2010, at 9:18 PM

Aw shucks, typos don't bother me. I make plenty of them. In YOUR case, I didn't see a typo. I saw what Missy pointed out, an error of ignorance.

As I said, go back to her first lesson. Was held on March 11. YOU'RE sure to learn something from it. Don't worry. It won't be graded.

YOURS Truly.

-- Posted by Night Sky on Thu, Mar 18, 2010, at 8:10 PM

Oh news, you silly boy, grammar and spelling are two different things!

When somebody is constantly criticizing others, and the opportunity arises to offer a little constructive criticism to that certain somebody, it is impossible for this Missouri girl to not jump at the opportunity.

We all make mistakes. I've made mistakes -- typo and otherwise. But, it is just so darn much fun pointing out yours!

Eric, I need help with "alot". I really didn't think that was a REAL word. Is it? Is it ever right and proper to use "alot"?

I'm off to bed with Alex Cross -- y'all have a great night!


-- Posted by missy08 on Thu, Mar 18, 2010, at 7:43 PM


In the day and age of the internet...you will find formal rules of grammar have pretty much gone out the window. I know for example for me, proof reading several drafts when writing a formal essay, is an absolute must. However, I don't do a lot of proof reading for internet comments. Call be a bad boy if you will...that is the way it is. Get used to it!

Have a supercalifragilistik day!!

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 18, 2010, at 7:21 PM

Oh what the heck, let's have another lesson this evening.

its = possessive word indicating belonging to

it's = contraction of "it is"

typo (according to wikipedia)= "..errors due to mechanical failure or slips of the hand or finger, but excludes errors of ignorance.."

Have a great evening!


-- Posted by missy08 on Thu, Mar 18, 2010, at 6:25 PM

I read something in the paper that is simply awesome. Did you read about the Achievement Banquet and Recognition ceremony put on at the High School by the Chamber of Commerce? This is the kind of thing that deserves mention on the front page blog as well as all the other "stuff" that gets put on. Our kids do read the comments made on-line, don't you know? If you could see a list of all the kids that were honored, it would amaze you. Come on folks, let us direct our thoughts inward and praise the things that are happening here instead of spending so much time flogging subjects that are of little interest to most.

-- Posted by red dog on Thu, Mar 18, 2010, at 5:54 PM

Night Sky

Pssst...I will let you in on a little secret...

..don't tell anyone but...its not a graded quiz!

Typos...get used to them...they are here to stay.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 18, 2010, at 5:53 PM

I erred. Imagine that. What I referred to were actually in the County. I will give you a hint. Direct your thoughts to 20 Highway between Marshall and Shackleford.

-- Posted by red dog on Thu, Mar 18, 2010, at 5:23 PM

Hey rd, I have never heard of either of those... but I am curious....


-- Posted by missy08 on Thu, Mar 18, 2010, at 5:18 PM

How about talking about something local? I agree with being informed about life, the universe and everything, but I am living here.

Does anyone remember the "Chicken Tree"? How about the "Cob Factory"? Let's see how much you know about Marshall.

Have a nice day.

-- Posted by red dog on Thu, Mar 18, 2010, at 5:16 PM

Yes Missy I have seen the SUN!! WooHoo!! I am loving it!! Oh and Missy add to your list of lessons, the one on 'a lot'. :)

Eric, thank you for finally changing that poll question. :)

-- Posted by Scarpetta on Thu, Mar 18, 2010, at 4:35 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Connie Reagles gets credit for suggesting the question. Sorry it took so long!

news, sure. Soon as you complete Missy's lesson #1.

-- Posted by Night Sky on Thu, Mar 18, 2010, at 4:00 PM

SC, Good job! but remember "...you are just taking someone's word for it...in fact you are taking the word of people you know little or nothing about other than what little may be written..."

ND, Slater made a typo, or two. On purpose, I am sure. He can be ornery at times!

news, thanks for the advice, but no thanks. I enjoy posting the "lesssons". Tomorrow we may cover the definition of "arrogant".

Eric and Scarpetta, the sun IS out. The birds are singing. The squirrels are ripping and running. I think it *might* be spring!

rr3, I believe. How can you witness the miracle of birth and the wonder of life and not?

Have a great day!


-- Posted by missy08 on Thu, Mar 18, 2010, at 12:11 PM

Night Sky

Your certainly free to discuss any topic you wish.

Discussion is good.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 18, 2010, at 10:32 AM

Eric, good try at trying to change the subject but I doubt it will work. :-)

-- Posted by Night Sky on Thu, Mar 18, 2010, at 9:47 AM

Smokin' Cheetah

I give up...tell me...lol.

...and how many times did Jesus condemn homosexuality as so many Christians do today?

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 18, 2010, at 9:36 AM

The sun is out. How weird is that?

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Thu, Mar 18, 2010, at 9:31 AM


Oh I never claim exclusive ownership of any question, mate.

I got that question from Astro-Physicist, Stephen King. Its a great question because it operates entirely on reason. Either way you answer it, God is limited in power and subject to the the Physical Laws of the Universe.

...and like Carl Sagen, I believe God is the sum total of all the laws of the Universe. My God you can test. My God you can observe first hand any time you want. My God is explained mathmatically. And there is no question that my God exists because the laws of the Universe are known and fixed. What is true in one corner of the Universe in terms of the physics is true in any other corner of the Universe. My God is a fact -- not some magical old man with a beard hiding in a cloud in the sky.

The physical laws of the Universe exist, are known, and have been verified many times. The Universe exists. That is fact.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 18, 2010, at 8:46 AM


Stating facts and refusing to believe in magic like the Christians do is not the result of a lack of maturity...its a matter of fact and reason.

By the way...can your God create a stone so heavy that he cannot lift it?

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 18, 2010, at 7:32 AM


I have seen and heard Christians say and do everything in that list multiple times. I attended Christian school K through 12. I am very well educated in the principles and beliefs of Christianity. My experience from observing and experiencing Christians commit every single one of those acts of hypocrisy many, many multiple times indicates that the Christians I have known do all 10 hypocrisies. So I know its a fact that the many Christians I have met and known and heard behave in the 10 ways listed on the list I gave you...thus for me, I don't have to take the unknown authors word for it...I know for a fact that a lot of Christians are exactly like the ones describe in his list...I have met them. His word is not fact. My experience is fact.

By the way, do you support the notion that indeed the Hindus may be correct and there may in fact be over 100,000 Gods?

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 18, 2010, at 7:28 AM


No, you have every right to believe what you want. Just because I may not agree doesn't mean it's wrong.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Mar 18, 2010, at 6:39 AM

So let me get this straight.

It's ok for someone to believe any kind of statement that Christ exists, but it's wrong for some to believe anything that says otherwise? Is that about right?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Mar 18, 2010, at 6:31 AM


I guess you accept all these statements by faith to be true. Appears all of these statements only serve to people that want to deny Christ. Oh I forgot you never answered that question!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Mar 18, 2010, at 5:46 AM

While driving through Indian Foothills Park yesterday, I noticed just how much trash is in the park. There is trash everywhere you look and some of it has been there for months.

Jeff Stubblefield, why is this not being picked up on a regular basis?

-- Posted by hunterfisher on Thu, Mar 18, 2010, at 4:59 AM


This will be the third time I have posted this.

The previous two have apparently been deleted. I hope some of you will see this before that happens so you can be a witness to the fact that this post was here if only for a little while.

Here's how Sedalia chose a city administrator and their Mayor, Elaine Horn, managed to not backroom deal herself into the job.


-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Mar 18, 2010, at 4:50 AM


As a rationalist I have noticed some aspects of Christianity that I think raise some important questions.

Here are the top 10 concerns I found of an anonymous author -- concerned with the average evangelical Christian belief system -- concerns I share with him/her:

"10.) The Christian vigorously denies the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feels outraged when someone denies the existence of theirs.

9.) The Christian feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say the people evolved from other life forms, but the Christian has no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

8.) The Christian laughs at polytheists, but the Christian has no problem believing in a Triune God.

7.) The Christian's face turns purple when the Christian hears of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but the Christian doesn't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all those babies in Egypt noted in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua"...including women, children...and strangely enough...trees.

6.) The Christian laughs at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods cohabitating with women for the night, but the Christian has no problem believing that the holy Spirit directly caused a 14 year old girl to be with child.

5.) The Christian is willing to spend his/her entire life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of the Earth (4 to 4.5 billion years), but the Christian finds nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age Tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that the Earth is a few generations old.

4.) The Christian believes the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who shares his/her beliefs -- though excluding those in rival sects -- will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of suffering. And yet the Christian considers his/her religion to be the most "tolerant" and "loving."

3.) While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince the average Christian otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence that same Christian needs to "prove" Chrisitanity.

2.) The Christian defines 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. The Christian considers that to be evidence that prayer works. But the average Christian regards the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply as the Will of God.

1.) Many Christians probably know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics about the Bible, Christianity, and church history -- but will still call themselves Christian."

Written by an unknown Author

...and apparently with a sense of humor.

...and all good points.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 18, 2010, at 12:43 AM


In the Old Oxford English Dictionary...the authority on the English language...there are more that 300 definitions of the word faith. Shall we post them all?

I cited the specific definition that is applicable to the word faith as regards our topic of conversation.

...and I don't take anything at face value...I always expect at a minimum verification. But before I say I accept a concept such as faith, I require hard evidence...testable, repeatable, verifiable. I would never leave something so important as after life to taking the word of someone I have never known, never met, and know almost nothing about. I require verification.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 18, 2010, at 12:01 AM


That's a very good suggestion, but it does look as if some are so busy trying to figure out who's the least and most religious that they'll no doubt miss the opportunity.

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Mar 17, 2010, at 11:03 PM


I searched all the way back to Saturday evening for that Sedalia Democrat link, but there's no trace of either of your posts, so I've missed out.

There muse be something in it to cause SOMEONE to feel mighty conspicuous!

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Mar 17, 2010, at 11:00 PM

Has everyone who's interested,called your Rep. and made your demand for Health Care? Don't sit on the side line! Make some kind of showing,it might help!

-- Posted by Jo on Wed, Mar 17, 2010, at 9:58 PM

I heard that the wrong brick was ordered for the court house and cannot be returned. Has the Dem. News looked into this? If it is true, are our tax dollars going to waste?

-- Posted by fresh air on Wed, Mar 17, 2010, at 9:56 PM


You totally missed the point again.


1. confidence or trust in a person or thing.

2. belief that is not based on proof

3. belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion

4. belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.

5. a system of religious belief

6. the obligation of loyalty or fidelity to a person, promise, engagement, etc.

7. the observance of this obligation; fidelity to one's promise, oath, allegiance, etc.

8. the trust in God and in His promises as make through Christ and the Scriptures by which humans are justified or saved

Pay particular attention to number four because all of the numerous links you post you do not have 100% proof that they are true but you faithfully accept what they say as fact. I do the same thing about things I read and decide to believe. But do we have proof probably not we weren't there, we didn't hear it firsthand, etc. we accept it by faith because they agree with us.

Then we have to determine what is the truth. All you say is the bible and the Koran contain beautiful teachings by Mohammed and Jesus. You only referenced the sermon on the mount but you don't state why you think that. I have asked several questions you have not answered. How many times have you told me you don't believe in magic, unsubstantiated claims, or my favorite my beliefs are in facts and methodologies that lead to factual theorems? Those answers tell me nothing. I have attempted to answer your questions to the best of my ability and will continue.

How do I know you are from Missouri? Do you have proof, or substantiated claims? How do I know that you live in Australia. Or that you are a dual citizen. Well I guess that I would have to accept that on faith now wouldn't I. Just like you have to accept on faith that I am also from Missouri that what I post I truly believe.

We don't have to agree and I don't have a problem with that but getting hung up with facts and figures that are not always 100% does nothing.

Last question and you don't have to answer if you don't want to. Would it change your belief with respect to how much evidence or proof I presented about the bible or Jesus? Like I said people that saw Jesus still did not believe.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Mar 17, 2010, at 9:24 PM

"Senior Bush administration officials sternly cautioned the 9/11 Commission against probing too deeply into the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, according to a document recently obtained by the ACLU."


-- Posted by news across on Wed, Mar 17, 2010, at 8:11 PM


You are sooooo bad!


-- Posted by missy08 on Wed, Mar 17, 2010, at 7:07 PM


I checked out that great link you posted entitled,

"[Conservative] Health bill protesters jeer at man with Parkinson's disease"

with video evidence.


The dispicable, low-down, scum, conservative protesters where demonstrating just how low they are.

You would think after 8 years under Bush that we would have learned a thing or two about conservative "values."

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Mar 17, 2010, at 6:38 PM

Gurra mah aggut, ND! :)

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Mar 17, 2010, at 6:31 PM



"a firm belief in something for which there is no proof"


I don't accept unsubstantiated claims.

You may choose to believe everything you are told with absolutely no repeatable, verifiable, testable, evidence to back it up, that is your right...but I don't.

I am from Missouri. Show me!

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Mar 17, 2010, at 6:30 PM


Your right on track. Their hasn't been any sun for weeks and weeks, but I'm sure it's bound to shine eventually.

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Mar 17, 2010, at 6:23 PM


There is no point in posting lessons on this forum...because its not a graded quiz.

Typos happen...get used to it!

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Mar 17, 2010, at 6:21 PM

ERIN GO BRAGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Mar 17, 2010, at 6:19 PM

speaking of poorly thought out intersections, I have set for nearly 30 mins at vest and 65 waiting for traffic to ease up. The problem is easily solved tho. Make the light at Wal-Mart and 65 and the light at Arrow and 65 the same. Possibly make the light at collage and 65 change with them. Or we could just put yet ANOTHER light on the Bi pass and build more crap there so that traffic gets worse. That was built to keep traffic flow in town down and all it has done since all that development crap started over there is create traffic problems.

-- Posted by Selmac8 on Wed, Mar 17, 2010, at 6:11 PM


How can I prove that you like the sermon on the mount? You say you like it but do I believe what you say or do I need proof? Do I take your word when I know little or nothing about you?

To get to my point is I believe that the bible is written by men inspired by God and everything in it is true. I accept that on faith. The bible has survived some 2000 years and is still the best selling book in the world. Man has tried to destroy it but it can't be done. Jesus during his earthly ministry always referenced God's word in his teaching.

The following link talks about the divine inspiration of the bible I think you may find it a interesting read:


-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Mar 17, 2010, at 5:56 PM

Missy I am pretty sure that the answer is sadly...no. All the doom and gloom is getting old. We need some sunshine!!

-- Posted by Scarpetta on Wed, Mar 17, 2010, at 3:55 PM


-- Posted by Samuel Clemens on Wed, Mar 17, 2010, at 2:44 PM

I would like it if McDonald's and Marshall could come to an agreement on how to better situate the drive-thru situation.

I think it would be best for both parties if we turned the College/Miami stoplight into a giant menu, and allow orders to be taken from the crosswalk signs.

Also, I think that McDonald's should have a ball pit sunk into the area that is currently being used as a turn/queue lane.

This might already might be the most poorly designed intersection on record, but at least if the above proposals go into action things will be a little more interesting.

-- Posted by Samuel Clemens on Wed, Mar 17, 2010, at 2:19 PM


You make an excellent point. How do we know that Leonardo davinci actually drew all those pictures, we have no original manuscripts from Shakespeare, did Washington actually cross the Potomac?

We don't question these thngs, because of witness accounts, etc.

If you get a chance really look into the book by Simon Greenleaf, he examines the validity of the eye witness accounts of the crucifixion and resurrection.

-- Posted by ceymore on Wed, Mar 17, 2010, at 2:07 PM

I have been so busy, forgot to post Lesson #2.

there = a place, not here

their = possessive personal pronoun; belonging to

they're = contraction of "they are"

Have a great day!!!!

Will the sun ever shine??????


-- Posted by missy08 on Wed, Mar 17, 2010, at 1:12 PM

hey y'all

not gonna get caught up in what appears to be argument for argument's sake - but it seems to me that those who are schooled in "academic circles where objective research is conducted" should have known that Leviticus was NOT the name of an Old Testament prophet ... it was the name of one of the books reportedly written or passed down by Moses. kinda dry - in my opinion - for those of us who are not legalists or mathmeticians - but a book of the Bible nonetheless. and don't try to bait me into your back and forth by insulting my intelligience ... i won't bite.

still watchin from somewhere out west ...


-- Posted by zeke on Wed, Mar 17, 2010, at 11:49 AM


Did you actually meet and talk with any of these folks that knew Jesus personally?

I don't think so...

...you are just taking someone's word for it...in fact you are taking the word of people you know little or nothing about other than what little may be written about them in the Bible.

As far as Jesus' teachings...yes I like them very much particularly the Sermon on the Mount.

However, I should point out that in academic circles where objective research is conducted on the subject of whether or not Jesus ever lived or had a ministry, their is a school of thought in which they believe that Jesus may in fact may have been a composite of 12 different "messiahs" that preached throughout Judea at that time. Such messiahs were quite common at that time, and at least one of them, Simon, is mentioned in a bout with Peter.

Whether or not he was one person or 12...the teachings are beautiful as are the teachings of the Prophet Mohammad.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Mar 17, 2010, at 10:19 AM

How about looking into the "Testimony of the Evangelists, which examins the historocity of the ressurrection" (please forgive the spelling) it was written by Simon Greenleaf.

It examines, according to the rules of law the account of the crucifixtion and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth.

Simon Greenleaf wrote about judical procedures, procedures for evidence, his teaching are widely used today. He contributed greatly to the Harvard Law School.

-- Posted by ceymore on Wed, Mar 17, 2010, at 9:15 AM

I'll leave it, thank you very much.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Mar 17, 2010, at 7:19 AM


I am confident in my belief and I won't force it on you. You can take it or leave it.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Mar 17, 2010, at 6:46 AM


You seem to be a classic example of what I'm talking about. I said nothing about ridding the world of anything yet that is how you saw it.

The only thing I would like to see done away with is legislating from the pulpit. Other than that you can worship the giant spaghetti monster for all I care as long as you don't look down at me for not following suit.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Mar 17, 2010, at 6:43 AM


You say you like Jesus teaching that would tell me that he was real and walked on this earth. If that is not true then you are saying the bible is a book of mythology if it filled with teachings of someone that doesn't exist. Is the bible true or myth? At this point I am unsure of your belief.

Respectfully you missed my point on the fact that people that physically saw Jesus heal the sick, made the lame walk and the blind see. Actual physical evidence and still people could not see that he was the son of God.

I guess I should have been more specific I want events referenced in the bible about war. I'm not going to discuss historical events that you want to blame on religion and rightly so but that only serves to cloud the truth. I do own a dictionary and I do reference it.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Mar 17, 2010, at 6:30 AM

What the f......

You wonder why people thrust "their" religion on you?

Why do you so persue to rid the world of "theirs"?

Sounds like some don't ask don't tell policy.

-- Posted by ceymore on Wed, Mar 17, 2010, at 6:07 AM

On religion. Why the hell can't people just keep it to themselves? Why do they constantly have to thrust it upon others while telling us that we are immoral for this and going to hell for that?

Sometimes I think it speaks more to thier own insecurities then is does to how anyone else lives thier life.

So, religious people, if you really want peace on earth and good will towards men as you would have us all believe then start by SHUTTING THE HELL UP!

Live YOUR life as you see fit, observe YOUR religion as YOU see fit and leave ME alone!

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Mar 17, 2010, at 5:35 AM

It is my hope OKR that through calm discourse and with reason, someday those root causes of genocide will be a thing of the past. However...one thing is certain...if we bury our heads in sand and pretend it doesn't happen...it will continue to happen.

Discussion is good.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Mar 17, 2010, at 3:16 AM

An addendum:

In the babel of diverse opinion

who knows which will hold dominion?

Could it be that all is lost,

unending genocide, and holocaust?

Good may be that the human race

be wiped from earth's tired face.

God may be short one O.

What do we really know?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Mar 17, 2010, at 1:46 AM




A piece of information about circumstances that exist or events that have occurred

A statement or assertion of verified information about something that is the case or has happened



fact noun

/fækt/ n [C or U]

something which is known to have happened or to exist, especially something for which proof exists, or about which there is information


fact definition

fact (fakt)


a thing that has actually happened or that is really true; thing that has been or is


Facts are not up for debate my friend...either something is supported by factual evidence or it isn't. You say Jesus lived. Maybe he did...but we don't know it for a fact. In fact, I know of no obserable. repeatable, verifiable evidence that exists supports the premise that he actually was a person who lived and breathed. Never the less, I certainly like his teachings and I would love to see Christians walk in his footsteps...but I haven't seen it yet.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Mar 17, 2010, at 1:34 AM

I first posted this little poem I wrote tonight at Kathy's blog where the interminable discussion driven by the persistent Ceymore rolls on. The thought occured to me that it might have application here. We all get a bit too full of ourselves at times.

As I have lived,and gotten older

something tapped me on my shoulder.

I'm not sure from whence it came,

nor whether to rejoice, or to blame.

Perceptions differ for each I say,

so who does know the proper way?

Does mine bring succor, or is it bane?

To announce it certain is only vain.

Perhaps even that I can not say.

Is silence not the better way?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Mar 17, 2010, at 1:17 AM


Here are those source references of Christian atrocities you requested with specific events.

There are far more than just these but this is a good place to start.

1.) The Myth of U.S. Cultural, Religious, Political, and Social Superiority

Manifest Destiny - 21st Century Style


2.) Manifest Destiny


3.)The Religious Origins of Manifest Destiny






6.) Judeophobia - Anti-Semitism, Jew-Hate and anti-"Zionism"


7.) Chapter 2 THE JEWS OF EUROPE


8.) Crusades


9.} History of Kosovo


I hope this information helps.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Mar 17, 2010, at 1:05 AM


When Jesus was on this earth there were people that seen the proof that he was the son of God but still didn't believe. Facts only prove something if you choose to believe it.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Mar 17, 2010, at 12:11 AM


I am sorry you have such a poor image of religion and that is what keeps a lot of people from the truth. I know there are a lot of groups that pose as religious entities but have everything to do with power and controversy. We call these cults.


Cults often use parts of the bible to validate their belief or don't use the bible at all. History only proves that religion was misused but it doesn't fit the definition of a Christian that believes the whole bible is the inerrant word of God.

Just like the news today we don't here news stories about bible loving Christians unless it is negative. There are thousands of us that never make the news.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Mar 17, 2010, at 12:10 AM


My beliefs are in facts and methodologies that lead to factual theorems.

I believe the evidence is self evident...there is not one shred of testable, observable, repeatable evidence to support the existence of magic...not one piece...and that is a fact.

So this is not a conflict of beliefs. Facts are what they are...not a belief.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Mar 16, 2010, at 11:57 PM


Well what and who determines who a Christian is? You? Are these your standards you want to apply to other people who say they are Christian but may not agree with your interpretation?

How odd that when backed into a corner by facts, that sometimes Christians start pointing fingers at other Christians and saying "...oh but those aren't real Christians..." Who are you to say? What makes your interpretation more correct than another devout Christian? The Catholics don't believe in Calvin concepts of Grace at all. Does that mean they aren't Christian? Certainly many Southern Baptists have said as much. How say you ceymore?

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Mar 16, 2010, at 11:54 PM


Respectfully I do not think Islam is the truth because Christians and Muslims disagree about the nature of God, salvation, prophets, the true Scriptures, etc. I am not sure of your reference to the militaristic nature of Christians, if you want to reference a certain event I would be glad to address it.

Just like someone that is trained to detect counterfeit money they do not study the counterfeit they study the real one so they immediately know a counterfeit when they see it. As Christians we need to study the true word of God the bible so we know the truth. Satan uses false teachings to deceive us and if we don't know the truth he wins.

We are all born into sin and when we reach the age of accountability when we are aware of our sin then we can accept Jesus gift of salvation. You are right after salvation we are forgiven of are past sins as far as the east is from the west. Our present and future sins are not automatically forgiven. We have to repent of our sins through prayer. That doesn't mean it is ok to sin we must try not to. Some think once they are saved that they can live however they want but it makes me wonder if they were truly saved. But I cannot be the judge that is between him/her and God. My bible says we cannot earn our way to heaven. The only way is to accept by faith that God sent his son Jesus to die on the cross for your sins, my sins and everyone's sins and if we accept Jesus into our heart (salvation) and repent of our sins then and only then will we have a place in heaven.

I cannot judge whether a person is going to heaven or hell I can only vouch for myself.

History is interesting but we have to live in the present.

If you believe in nothing you will believe anything.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Mar 16, 2010, at 10:48 PM


Please read my comments again. I never said that the slaughters didn't take place, read the rocket scientist anology.

In short, not every one who say's they are a Christian is a Christian, and sometimes people are just plain wrong.

I never did find in the Bible where it said to slaughter the Native Americans in the name of Manifest Destiny, they read into their own meaning, much like sometimes we read our own meaning into it.

Even unbelievers read their own meanings into it.

-- Posted by ceymore on Tue, Mar 16, 2010, at 10:46 PM


So...your saying Christians never butchered the Native Americans of North and South America in the name of Christendom?

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Mar 16, 2010, at 10:12 PM

Miss Marple

I never shy away from pointing it out when people are making arguments based on double standards...one for Christianity's militant and genocidal history and a separate and different one for militant Muslims.

Both are intolerant of the beliefs of anyone who does not follow their particular creed and both have a history of extreme violence.

However, as I have pointed out earlier, both have beautiful messages of peace and love as well.

I don't know if religion is universally, inherently hypocritical but it does seem to be a common element of most major religions.

Perhaps reason is the answer rather than a belief in magic. In fact, humans may someday outgrow such primitive belief systems and reason may very well become the universal standard we use to interpret our perceptions of existence and purpose rather than relying on a belief in magic.

...but I do appreciate your sentiments Miss Marple.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Mar 16, 2010, at 10:08 PM

News Across,

I wonder if your remarks are specifically aimed at me, for a reason other than the earlier post?

There are alot of people who wish to be labeled by the name Christian, but that doesn't necessairly make them so.

I.E.- If I decide I'm a rocket scientist, hang around rocket scientists, go to rocket scientist meetings,, but have never studied rocket science, and refuse to learn rocket science then no matter what I call myself I won't be a rocket scientist.

News Across, you make an excellent point about such things as manifest destiny, the Spanish inquistion, etc. I haven't read about those being ordained in the Bible, perhaps it is like the rocket science example.

As for the native peoples, well my wife may have a little different point of view, as she is 100% native, and is a Christian, you two would probably have a interesting discussion.

Leviticus is in the Old Testament, therefore it is not part of the New Covenant, Leviticus in fact is credited to Moses and is named after the Levitical Priesthood.

Calvinism has influenced many churches, and if you are referring to the five points of Calvinism (TULIP) Total depravity, Unconditional election, Limited atonement, Irresistible grace and Perseverance of the saints. Then I guess I'm not sharp enough to understand how Calvinism does away with the anology you used, even if you followed the also popular Calvinist 4 point.

My understanding of Calvinism is that there is strong belief in predestination and the total depravity of the human nature. Calvin was an influence on Martin Luther, who didn't necessarily share all of Calvins beliefs, tho both were Protestants. There is also the Arminianism view.

Have you considered the place that "Free Will Plays in the Life of Humans"

As for the place of Calvinism, Arminianism or other perhaps Martin Luther summed it up best- loosely quoted " In Essentials - Unity, Non-Essentials - Liberty, and in all things- Charity.

Some of those earlier Rocket Scientists should of studied alittle harder!

-- Posted by ceymore on Tue, Mar 16, 2010, at 9:55 PM

"Riots erupt across Jerusalem as Hamas leader calls for renewed 'intifada'"


Third Class Coach theory at work.

When will Israel learn that treating Muslim Israeli's as 2nd class citizens only causes them more problems?

Maybe if Israel was a constitutional republic this wouldn't be happening.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Mar 16, 2010, at 9:52 PM

Oh, dear news across, you will regret getting yourself into this discussion. It's like having gum on your shoe. Just won't go away.

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Tue, Mar 16, 2010, at 9:50 PM


Well mate, Christians sure have killed a lot of people in the name of God over the years. Christian inspired concepts such as Manifest Destiny have been disastrous for Native Americans. In fact, some estimates are the the Christian Spanish alone killed over 2,500,000 brown skinned people in the Americas. Such genocide doesn't speak well for that alleged new covenant.

In fact, such Calvinist concepts such as "Grace" render the believer to perceive himself as being with out sin -- since he believes he is forgiven for all sin past, present, and future.

So...does this mean that Leviticus is back? Or perhaps Leviticus was wrong. Do you believe God gave these laws to Leviticus? Or do you think Leviticus was kinda making up the rules as he went along?

I think the "he with out sin" thing went right out the window with Calvinist ideas. So...stone any adulterers, blasphemers, or worshipers of Molech lately?

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Mar 16, 2010, at 8:45 PM

Obituary of Common Sense.

An Obituary printed in the London Times - Interesting and sadly rather true.

Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Common Sense, who has been with us for many years. No one knows for sure how old he was, since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape. He will be remembered as having cultivated such valuable lessons as:

- Knowing when to come in out of the rain;

- Why the early bird gets the worm;

- Life isn't always fair;

- and maybe it was my fault.

Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don't spend more than you can earn) and reliable strategies (adults, not children, are in charge).

His health began to deteriorate rapidly when well-intentioned but overbearing regulations were set in place. Reports of a 6-year-old boy charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate; teens suspended from school for using mouthwash after lunch; and a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student, only worsened his condition.

Common Sense lost ground when parents attacked teachers for doing the job that they themselves had failed to do in disciplining their unruly children.

It declined even further when schools were required to get parental consent to administer sun lotion or an aspirin to a student; but could not inform parents when a student became pregnant and wanted to have an abortion.

Common Sense lost the will to live as the churches became businesses; and criminals received better treatment than their victims.

Common Sense took a beating when you couldn't defend yourself from a burglar in your own home and the burglar could sue you for assault.

Common Sense finally gave up the will to live, after a woman failed to realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot.. She spilled a little in her lap, and was promptly awarded a huge settlement.

Common Sense was preceded in death, by his parents, Truth and Trust, by his wife, Discretion, by his daughter, Responsibility, and by his son, Reason..

He is survived by his 4 stepbrothers;

I Know My Rights

I Want It Now

Someone Else Is To Blame

I'm A Victim

-- Posted by yank on Tue, Mar 16, 2010, at 2:51 PM


All organized religion is a way to aquire wealth.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Mar 16, 2010, at 12:42 PM


As Christians we are under a new covenant, that is evidenced by the New Testament. Remember the woman who was caught adultry?

Islam doesen't have a new covenant, Jihad is still Jihad. If you've had the opportunity to read the Koran you'd find no less than 120 commandments to "Suffer not an infidel to live". Mohammad practiced Jihad during his lifetime. It was a way to acquire wealth.

Peace negotiations are somewhat difficult as the word of a Muslim is his bond, that is unless he is speaking to an "Infidel" many of our friends in Muslim countries still see those on the outside as "infidels"

The Muslim commitment to their beliefs is unaparalled, perhaps more people who claim Christianity should actually study the word and place it into practice. It'd definetly be a better world.

-- Posted by ceymore on Tue, Mar 16, 2010, at 12:34 PM


Given the militaristic nature of Christians through out the ages and the many times the Israelites were "ordered" by God to make war and kill people makes me think your reference to Muslims is a lot like the pot calling the kettle black...again.

There are control freaks in every religion who find their way to power and think its their duty to spread their power -- to which religion is a central element -- far and wide.

Our own culture is no exception to this. However despite all the references to self-righteousness and a decidedly pro-war stance one may find in both the collection of books we call the Bible and the Koran...both still contain a central message of peace and love.

I hope someday you get the chance to read the Koran and learn about the life of the Prophet Mohammad, ...you might learn something you didn't know about him, Islam, and the God of Abraham.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Mar 16, 2010, at 8:24 AM


I don't know what you are referring to about the beauty of Islam. There are several references in the Quran where Muhammad commands his followers to fight and subdue all who resist Islam. Since the only way to paradise is to earn it they never know if they have actually made it until they die.

As Christians we live under grace and can be assured of a place in heaven before we die by accepting Jesus as our personal Lord and Savior. This cannot be earned because it is freely given all we have to do is accept it. Then as believers we are called to spread the word by witnessing.

Islam has expanded primarily by military conquest and promised salvation if they died fighting for Islam. If a Muslim converts to Christianity that is an unforgiveable sin punishable by death. Where is the beauty in that?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Mar 16, 2010, at 6:29 AM

Former bank president arrested, charged with stealing bailout funds


-- Posted by news across on Mon, Mar 15, 2010, at 11:58 PM

Apparently this 411 service has been around for a while, but, as usual, I'm the last to learn about things.

If interested, watch the video and learn about Google's local 411 assistance:


-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Mar 15, 2010, at 1:20 PM

Hickory, the article by Logical Premise was very interesting reading, not just because it contained some of the same points of contention I made 25 years ago in my master's thesis, but also because it presents a perspective about the true nature of our federal government that politicians always have done their best to disguise.

I may be too cynical to believe that honesty in government could ever become reality, but it's certainly worth striving for.

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Mar 15, 2010, at 12:28 PM

We're right! No,we're right!

Liberals vs. Conservatives and nothing gets done.

Do the polticians get this attitude from us or do we get it from them? I'm as guilty as anyone but I'm really starting to feel ashamed of myself and of all of us.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Mar 15, 2010, at 6:08 AM


Liberals are and have always been champions of civil rights. In addition, just because we may someday choose a scientifically planned economy, in no way would we, The American People, accept erosion of our rights and freedoms...we won't allow this no matter what form of economy we have -- capitalist or socialist.

We have a wonderful form of Government and its almost ideal for a scientifically planned economy, and a socialist economy can only work with a Democratic form of government and in a free and open society.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Mar 15, 2010, at 3:20 AM


After 8 years of the spend and borrow conservatives spending money on wars we could not afford and putting huge tax refunds in to the pockets of the very richest 10% of our population, to hear a neocon complain about the democrats spending is a lot like the hearing the pot call the kettle black.

Conservative policies have already brought us a new great depression and real unemployment which is estimated to be about 22% is not far at all from the 25% unemployment rates we saw in the first great depression. Now that President Obama is governing from right of center, we see the same conservative approach and with it will come the same results.

Until American gets away from the 2 conservative partys -- the Republicans and the Democrats...as an economist I would predict a longer than expected depression and perhaps no real recovery at all any time soon and possibly never.

America can fall...sad as that may be to us...its a fact that we could emerge from these many years of conservative policies of both parties a new third World Nation.

We need a New Deal and we need it now!!

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Mar 15, 2010, at 3:08 AM

That was more of a rhetorical question as I wont be on line again this week.... too much green beer...dont want it to go to waste

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Mar 15, 2010, at 12:47 AM

News I might add to the points made in your post that tribalism in Greater Arabia wherein the muslim faith arose colored their disregard for nation states. The basic social unit in Arabic cultures to this day remains the tribe. Most nation/state boundaries were originally, and remain artificially imposed by outside influences including the Ottoman Empire, and Western European periods of dominance.

One of the tragic consequences of the Iraq/Afghanistan invasions was the Bush/Cheney blunder of failing to fully understand the Arabic tribal culture. It haunts our military efforts to this day.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Mar 15, 2010, at 12:21 AM


Al Quaeda's goals are political not religious. Islam just happens to be the hat that side is wearing our side tends to wear the Christian/Jewish hat.

It has everything to do with our support of Israel's occupation of Palestine and Israeli apartheid and little or nothing to do with religion.

Its most unfortunate more Americans don't seem to make much effort to learn about Islam by the way.

Its a wonderful religion, but not only is it a beautiful religion but it also makes nationalism insignificant in the eye of the believer. I think perhaps that may be a difficult thing for most people in the West to grasp. Muslims don't really believe in borders. To them the only thing that matters is worshiping God. To the Muslims, anyone who is a believer is a brother or sister no matter what artificial boundary they happen to have crossed. They don't believe in allegiance to a country, of course most obey the laws of their nations, but it is a core belief that they only owe their allegiance to God...the God of Abraham.

For a people like us in America and our Western allies, such a notion as the Muslim idea of no allegiance to any country may seem to be an alien concept, but knowing that fact it is an important key to understanding Muslims.










-- Posted by news across on Sun, Mar 14, 2010, at 10:45 PM


The first part of your post is correct except for the number one commandment is "YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND".Matt. 27:37 NASB

The number two commandment is "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF". Matt. 27:39 NASB

You are correct that the bible can be taken out of context to mean anything you want. The bible contains both figurative and literal language but can only be interpreted one way but can have several applications.

As a true believer I don't think God will ever tell me to shoot, kill, bomb, rape, pillage and plunder the 'other'.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Mar 14, 2010, at 3:27 PM

After thinking about it, maybe frequently is a better word to use than "often".

As for why the peaceable ones don't take a stand. I don't know. I don't have an answer other than to say that people are like that. They (we) go through life content with the daily grind, not making noise or bringing attention to ourselves, maybe being passionate on the inside about matters, but not willing to do anything about it because of fear, or lack of money or confidence, or any of a hundred other reasons.

Honestly, I don't know. It's a question we can all ask ourselves.

-- Posted by Night Sky on Sun, Mar 14, 2010, at 3:16 PM

NanaDot, I'll echo what WTF says, with one exception. This line ---- While there are those who practice the highest and best of their respective religions, and I do honor those folks, most of the time, religion becomes a weapon, an excuse, to hate and control 'the other'.

I offer that it's "often" instead of "most of the time". When religious groups/people are making headlines because of hate crimes, war mongering, etc, there are millions of other peaceable people practicing their religion quietly, faithfully, calmly and without malice.

-- Posted by Night Sky on Sun, Mar 14, 2010, at 2:46 PM

Amen, NanDot, Amen.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Mar 14, 2010, at 2:09 PM

your right news Jesus did not condemn gays but he did condemn their lifestyle (sin).

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Mar 14, 2010, at 7:52 AM


What qualifies you to say either? Please keep your personal attacks to yourself mate.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Mar 14, 2010, at 6:33 AM


I am a rationalist...that is correct.

...and I don't believe in magic. I believe in scientific methodology, mathematics, and facts.

However I do admire the Teachings of Jesus of Nazareth. I also admire the teachings of the Prophet Mohammad...as well as the teachings of secular wise-men such as Gandhi and King.

By the way...do you know how many times Jesus of Naz. condemned gays?

If you guessed 0 times...you are correct.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Mar 13, 2010, at 10:54 PM

"Until now, corporations only influenced politics with high-paid lobbyists and backroom deals," the company's YouTube account declares. "But today, thanks to an enlightened supreme court, corporations now have all the rights the founding fathers meant for us. That's why Murray Hill Incorporated is taking democracy's next step-- running for Congress"

wow. wrong wrong wrong....I cant even believe this. who's ready for Belize?

-- Posted by MissouriBlooms on Sat, Mar 13, 2010, at 9:46 PM


you are right as a non-believer I figured you would think that and that's ok.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Mar 13, 2010, at 8:22 PM

"Corporate entity becomes 'candidate', kicks off bid for Congress"


Well in the wake of the recent Supreme Court ruling, we now have corporation that is running for a seat in Congress.

This is pure facism.


-- Posted by news across on Sat, Mar 13, 2010, at 7:59 PM


Since when does the Greg Laurie speak for God?

Besides a concept that has no testable, verifiable, repeatable evidence and a book of mythology, what is his source?

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Mar 13, 2010, at 7:20 PM

You're right, hickorydickorydock, it's not rocket science. It's demolition science, and just like rocket science, safety is the first order of business. People live near that bridge. You put enough explosive in it to blow up the steel (check out the photo on the front page of the website now), you'd have concrete shrapnel tearing up homes -- and maybe people. I think it's a good thing they were more concerned about safety than about bringing the bridge down with one blast.

-- Posted by taxedpayer on Sat, Mar 13, 2010, at 7:12 PM

Oh, wow...Eric and I can't wait!

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sat, Mar 13, 2010, at 6:53 PM

Hickory, if that's the case, I'd know better than to even think about applying. (heh heh)

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Mar 13, 2010, at 3:34 PM

News, thanks for the general summary of your city. Yes, I'm sure we can find lots of details online to enhance your overview.

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Mar 13, 2010, at 1:07 PM

Relative to the painting project, my math genius friend reminded me that recalling simple algebraic functions isn't as difficult as a problem can make it seem.

Therefore, T = 1(1/4 + 1/6) = 1(3/12 + 2/12) = 1(5/12) = 12/5 = 2.4 hours.

Together, Kathy and Eric can paint the newspaper office in 2 hours and 24 minutes, and Missy, I agree that it would turn out looking professionally done. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Mar 13, 2010, at 1:04 PM

Litlmissme, yes I can sense your excitement about the coming spring and hope Mother Nature takes a kinder view toward the weather in that area.

The weather person on one of our local tv stations is into gardening and has a small garden area at the station, where his pal from the university agricultural extension center appears from time to time with tips and information about gardening. Just a couple of days ago he was talking about tomato plants and suggested that now would be a good time to plant them in containers so that they could be brought inside at night until the weather warms enough to put them into the ground.

My mother was a gardener like you, setting out a number of items each year (which I got to help maintain as my reward for sharing in the bounty). :)

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Mar 13, 2010, at 12:52 PM

B-N-B, thanks for the update. I do recall reading about the roofers working in the frigid conditions that prevailed earlier in the winter and sure didn't envy their job.

From my early years I've always admired the architecture of that old building, and it pleased me greatly when I read about the proposed renovations.

It's been a long, long time since I was last inside it, maybe Fall 1964, I believe, there to cast an absentee ballot in the general election that year - my first time to vote in one - but my memory of the place is pretty dim; however, I'm looking forward to the time I can revisit it.

Thanks again for bringing me up-to-date, and sorry that we're such weather hogs down here. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Mar 13, 2010, at 12:35 PM

Good article defining God's definition of family.


-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Mar 13, 2010, at 11:26 AM

Slater - The outside of the Courthouse hasn't changed much over the last couple of months. The roof was finished in the very cold weather and it looks great but the scraping of the old paint off the metal trim, windows and stone was all pretty much on hold due to weather. This last week the painters have returned to scrape and start to work towards finishing the project. Most commercial grade paints require 50 to 60 degrees for proper application and so far this spring all of our friends in Texas have been hogging all the nice weather.:) But I can tell you it is looking really good. I talk to lots of visitors that pass through town and we, as a town, get lots of positive comments regarding the effort we are putting into our Courthouse.

-- Posted by broke-n-busted on Sat, Mar 13, 2010, at 11:15 AM

Sure. It's easy when safety's no concern. The taliban probably would have taken out the neighbors and half the park in the process.

-- Posted by taxedpayer on Sat, Mar 13, 2010, at 8:48 AM

Slater, I agree with CN! But, I bet the house would be beautiful!

Cold rain this morning.

Have a great day!


-- Posted by missy08 on Sat, Mar 13, 2010, at 7:15 AM

But I'll bet they aren't tired of his girlfriend.

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Mar 12, 2010, at 11:18 PM

...And on the International Front....

"Sarkozy braced for poll defeat as angry French voters look to the left"


No nation is an island. We are but one of many nations in this World, and in France they are rejecting conservatism in a big way. They are tired of failure.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Mar 12, 2010, at 11:15 PM

How's the courthouse looking? It's about finished, isn't it?

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Mar 12, 2010, at 11:13 PM

T = 1(1/4 + 1/6)

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Mar 12, 2010, at 11:03 PM

CN, you may be onto something there.

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Mar 12, 2010, at 11:01 PM

Eric stops periodically to photograph his progress.

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Mar 12, 2010, at 10:59 PM

I want to know why Kathy paints faster than Eric.

-- Posted by Night Sky on Fri, Mar 12, 2010, at 10:56 PM

Calling all math majors!

Kathy Fairchild can paint the house in 4 hours, while it takes Eric Crump 6 hours. Together, how long would it take them to paint the house?

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Mar 12, 2010, at 10:32 PM

Common sense sonny boy good old fashion common sense

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Mar 12, 2010, at 9:32 PM


Could you please enumerate and detail these "extra rights" you claim gay and lesbian folks are wanting.

Please include the links to your sources so we can check them for qualification and relevance.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Mar 12, 2010, at 9:23 PM

Good point taxedpayer but whether it is illegal or unfair the point is still that as individuals we all have the same rights but they are not always fair. Thanks for the input.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Mar 12, 2010, at 7:45 PM


The quieter the better right now. The ballot issue is next month and they want it to sneak in under the radar so they are hoping everyone will forget about it in the hopes that only suppporters will get out on vote it in.

VOTE NO! Scream it loud and clear!

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Mar 12, 2010, at 6:54 PM

With the MPS district facing a $700,000 deficit, is this the best time to ask the voters to approve a $16 million bond issue? Also why is the school board and administrative staff keeping the issue so quiet?

-- Posted by wizzer on Fri, Mar 12, 2010, at 6:17 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Whether it's politically the best time, I can't say, but financially, the two things (new building fund and operating fund) are separate. If approved by voters, the bond money will pay for the new school. Craig Noah indicated at public meetings earlier this year that operating expenses are not expected to be affected dramatically by the new school. The district will be getting a bigger building but giving up an old, high-maintenance building.

"Fmr. NYT editor: Fox running 'propaganda campaign' against Obama"


-- Posted by news across on Fri, Mar 12, 2010, at 6:05 PM

I'm not sure if I sent your video of the bridge demo viral, but I suspect I will soon have doubled the number of hits (144) you now have on Youtube. You did a great job getting the footage and a decent job of putting it all together. Congratulations of a fine of job of reporting to all involved.

-- Posted by Ray on Fri, Mar 12, 2010, at 5:15 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Thanks Ray. I've been waiting four years for this!


I am just awaiting the warmth of spring to get outside and dig in the dirt again. It is so relaxing to me, after a long day at work.

I am going to start some indoor plantings this week end, tomatos, broccolli, peppers :)

The strawberry patch (and the weeds in it) will be the target of the next warm day.

I am so encouraged by the tiny little signs of the impending season, I can barely contain myself!

If you can't guess spring is my favorite season!

Thanks for asking!

-- Posted by litlmissme on Fri, Mar 12, 2010, at 5:12 PM

"Ventura: 'You're not allowed to ask' about 9/11"

"more than one thousand architects and engineers signed a petition demanding that Congress begin a new investigation into the destruction of the World Trade Center skyscrapers on 9/11. He also quoted a few paragraphs from his new book, American Conspiracies, to explain why some of those experts see signs of controlled demolition."


-- Posted by news across on Fri, Mar 12, 2010, at 5:12 PM

No worries. :)

She has a BS in Biology and it'll take a year to get her RN certification, and then she feels she'll have all the credentials she'll need to go to work monitoring clinical trials.

As you indicated, the world of nursing has really blossomed in recent years. Long gone are the days when it was largely confined to hospitals.

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Mar 12, 2010, at 2:41 PM

Slater, when re-reading my post, I am afraid my "wretched" comment didn't come off like I intended -- tic! With the on-going health care debates and the discussing/bashing of insurance and pharmaceutical companies -- it was intended to be humorous....


-- Posted by missy08 on Fri, Mar 12, 2010, at 1:03 PM

Oh Slater, I got ahead of the game.... She is beginning a nursing program? That is wonderful! I always encourage those with an interest to become nurses. Nurses have so many opportunities! Many of those wretched pharmaceutical companies use RNs to market/teach. Industrial nursing, insurance companies, legal consultant, school nursing, long term care, home health care, aesthetics (sp?), anesthesia.... And, of course, my favorite -- emergency department. There are so many options for someone with a nursing degree.

Once she becomes a registered nurse, she can complete a certification -- often requiring a master's degree and become "specialized". I thought this was where she was in her education.

Isn't it confusing that different degrees and different professions use different terminology?

Like the "practice" of nursing and medicine. And attorneys "counsel"?

Good luck to your daughter!!!!


-- Posted by missy08 on Fri, Mar 12, 2010, at 12:59 PM

My daughter and I thank you, Missy.

I don't know if she has a specialty in mind. Currently she works as the on-site project manager for a Japanese pharmaceutical company which is conducting tests of a new TB drug. She wants to work as a monitor of clinical research studies and says the RN certification will make her qualifications more marketable.

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Mar 12, 2010, at 12:03 PM

So far my St. Patrick's Day plan is to admire our new counters (which will be installed the 16th) while I have a German beer with green food coloring mixed in it. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Mar 12, 2010, at 11:34 AM

I'm with you, Slater. Let's talk about some happy, positive news! St. Patrick's Day plans anyone?

-- Posted by Green Eyes on Fri, Mar 12, 2010, at 11:22 AM


Under the law you have the legislative right to marry the woman of your choice who is an adult and who wants to marry you. Are you will to extend that same right to a man who prefers to marry an adult male of his choice who also wants to marry him...or do you have a double standard?

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Mar 12, 2010, at 8:16 AM

I see your point, rr3yv0, but I notice that among your examples, most are choices to commit crimes. Homosexuality is not illegal.

A better example, I think: What if you had a law that allowed people driving red cars to drive wherever they want, but people who drive blue cars can drive all they want as long as their car doesn't leave the garage.

-- Posted by taxedpayer on Fri, Mar 12, 2010, at 7:42 AM

news: You continue to distort and misquote. That is your right. It's my right to continue to point that out.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Fri, Mar 12, 2010, at 7:23 AM

Hey Slater,

Congrats to the daughter regarding certification. What is her specialty?

Have a great day!


-- Posted by missy08 on Fri, Mar 12, 2010, at 7:13 AM

My point is this we all have equal rights. Do we have the right to change them? Yes


Do I have a right to smoke pot at home?

Yes until I get caught and arrested. If I think that is wrong then I have the right to try to change the law to legalize it.

Do I have a right to drive 100mph down the highway? Yes until I get caught and arrested. If I think that is wrong then I have the right to try to change the law to legalize it.

Do I have the right marry a partner of my choice? Yes as long it is the opposite sex. If I think that is wrong then I have the right to try to change the law to legalize it.

Do I have the right to take something from someone else? Yes until I get caught and arrested. If I think that is wrong then I have the right to try to change the law to legalize it.

I could go on and on and you could thing of thousands of examples. The right to marry someone of the same sex has been voted on with some success but with several failures. Would I like it if it becomes the law in my state or the law of the land? No Would I hate the people that are for it? No but I don't have to like or agree with what they do.

That's the beauty of living in America is we all have the same and equal rights but we also have the right to change them.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Mar 12, 2010, at 7:12 AM

Cosa Nostra

I bet you say that all the studs...lol.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Mar 12, 2010, at 6:45 AM


Really? All the same legislated rights too...such as the right to marry who the adult of their choice who also wants to marry them?

Oh and rr3yv0 you do know I am American born and bred and lived almost all my life in America..right?

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Mar 12, 2010, at 6:42 AM

If all American citizens have the same rights, why can't American gay couples marry or create civil unions in most states?

And if sexuality is a choice, why do people who choose one lifestyle (heterosexuality) get more rights than those who choose another (homosexuality)?

-- Posted by taxedpayer on Fri, Mar 12, 2010, at 6:41 AM

American citizens all have the same rights.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Mar 12, 2010, at 6:30 AM


Our Founding Fathers clearly disagreed with you. They believed the pursuit of happiness is a right.

Also is that what you call enforcing equal rights for gays and lesbians "special rights?" All they want is the same rights as you and me...mate.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Mar 12, 2010, at 6:21 AM

Cosa Nostra

"We?" do you have a mouse in your pocket? I think you are only authorized to speak for yourself sonny boy...

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Mar 12, 2010, at 6:18 AM


To answer your question I believe we all have inalienable rights as American citizens. Lifestyle is a personal choice and I don't believe you should get special rights because of the way you choose to live. We all should live within the rights granted to all citizens.

As far as being vindicated no I just agree with the court ruling. Lifestyle is a choice not a right.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Mar 12, 2010, at 6:16 AM

Cosa Nostra

Is that the best you have dude?

You need to get some new material for your personal attacks, dude.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Mar 12, 2010, at 5:33 AM


Is it just me or do neocons seem like they are carrying around a lot of emotional baggage and personal anger?

I mean take the Teabaggers for example...there they were walking around with signs claiming the President had raised their taxes at their little gatherings -- despite the fact that he had just passed the biggest tax cut in American history -- and every single Republican in Congress voted against that tax cut.

One has to wonder just what planet they are living on...because reality seems to elude them.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Mar 12, 2010, at 1:59 AM


Yeah that would probably be a good idea. You can find a lot of information about Sydney on google as well as some great photos -- and it saves me a lot of work. Great idea mate...enjoy!

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Mar 12, 2010, at 12:28 AM

hmmmm... i think i'll just google it

-- Posted by wheresthelove on Fri, Mar 12, 2010, at 12:23 AM


Sure I would be happy to tell you about Sydney. The first key to understand about Sydney is that it is a party city 24/7. The Aussies love to go out to the many clubs, museums, parks, ect. We have tons of outdoor cafes, theaters, shops, ect. The weather is great. The people are very nice. Surfing is very popular. Tourism tends to be high. We have many beaches, mountains to the West, and of course the Sydney Harbour Bridge and the Sydney Opera House are both very impressive.

Sydney is a very safe city relative to most cities and you can go any place here with out having to worry about getting mugged, raped or killed. We don't have housing projects or ghettos. Crime is very low relative to most other cities in the World. Our population here is a mixed one which has a high number of Asian people, aboriginal people, Irish/anglo-saxon folks...and a fairly high number of Middle Eastern folks.

I know that is pretty general but I will be happy to be more specific when I have more time. Also I have many beautiful photos of Sydney which I would be happy to email to the MD if they would be interested in posting them for folks to see.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Mar 12, 2010, at 12:11 AM

Only time will tell about the continuation of this Speak Out column in its present format.

In the meantime, News, since most of us have never traveled to Australia, I'm sure some of us would enjoy learning about Sydney's cultural life, if you'd care to act as our guide.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Mar 11, 2010, at 11:31 PM


I like reading the political comments. In fact I enjoy them immensely.

Judging from the many political comments by quite a number of people on this forum...including yourself...I think its reasonable to presume that many people are interested in the political issues that we often discuss here on this forum.

However, I certainly am no fan of the personal attacks that ofter result from the frustration some folks have regarding the on-topic opinions that some of us post. It is most unfortunate that some folks have difficulty staying on topic and seem to feel the need to resort to personal attacks...and all because they don't agree with the on-topic opinions of others.

I hope that you will feel free to post your opinions on any issue of concern to you be it political or religious or sports-related or anything else of general interest, and I hope you will respect the equal right of others to do the same.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 11, 2010, at 11:22 PM

I'm wondering just how much longer this free space will be available. It would be simple enough to legitimately close it, I would think.

OKR, bring on your poetry and help save the forum!

Litlmissme, you once were beginning to tell us about your grandchildren? learning about self-sufficiency. I for one would like to know how that's progressing.

Missy, you mentioned being in nursing school. My daughter is getting ready to begin work for a RN certification, and you may have some thoughts to share with her about it.

WTF, I'd sure like to see more of your sketches if you're willing and able to share them with us.

I know there's plenty of interesting topics to discuss besides the endless and tiring political monologues.

How about it?

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Mar 11, 2010, at 11:10 PM


Actually no...I don't. Call me pathetic if you will lol lol lol.

...and aikman8 sometimes I post from Independence too...lol lol lol.

Get real dude.

Good day mate!

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 11, 2010, at 10:49 PM

Hmmm I wonder how long that Federal Appeals Court ruling will stand.

Many priests (voodoo priests mostly), have told me that prayer with out the customary swinging of a dead chicken over one's head is ineffective.

Perhaps the Christians are doing it wrong lol.

...and since there is as much testable, verifiable, repeatable evidence to support the beliefs of the voodoo priests as there is to support Christian beliefs (none)...the voodoo priests may in fact be correct.

I do have a question though that I hope some of our more devout Christians might answer for me.

Can Almighty God create a stone so heavy that even He cannot lift it?

Either way you answer it, it demonstrates beyond any doubt that God is subject to and inferior to the physical laws of the Universe...oops there goes that Almighty, all powerful thing. lol lol lol

...but don't let that stop you from believing in magic...in the 21st Century...lol lol lol.

...as for me, I will stick with reason and logic, thank you very much.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 11, 2010, at 10:46 PM

This quote from OKR's post is relevant today.

"Maybe we are each in a cage in a way,

and can't make a difference whatever we say.

Maybe it's enough that we can speak our mind,

and rattle our cage in what ways we find.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, May 11, 2009, at 11:20 PM

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Thu, Mar 11, 2010, at 9:31 PM

Just to take a break from the current, I reread Speak Out for December 16, 2008 to February 20, 2009. The format was easier to read (shorter sentences). A lively exchange among lively people on a wide range of topics. The personal attacks are really sucking the air out of the room.

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Thu, Mar 11, 2010, at 9:20 PM

The daily schoolroom ritual is not a prayer, but instead "a recognition of our founders' political philosophy that a power greater than the government gives the people their inalienable rights," said the Ninth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco in a 2-1 ruling.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...

Now the christians will feel vindicated and even worse they will feel justified as they continue to single out a single group of individuals and move forward to deny the inalienable rights for homosexuals. How do you feel about that,rr3yv0?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Mar 11, 2010, at 9:17 PM

I was glad to see the court uphold "under God" as constitutional in our pledge of allegiance.


-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Mar 11, 2010, at 9:06 PM

Kathy Fairchild

I disagree.

Your argument began with a veiled vilification of Gov. Ventura for voicing his opinions and especially in reference to his questioning of the official Bush Administration explanation of the 9/11 attack. I countered by pointing out that labeling those who dare to question official accounts of events that simply do not add up as "conspiracy theorists" is unfairly using a demotivate term in an effort to silence such. You then attempted to back-peddle to a position of "conspiracy theories" bore you.

So on and so forth.

Its most unfortunate that you and I disagree on these points. Further, I think its most unfortunate that this disagreement seems to have disturbed you on an emotional level. I hope in the future you will see why that kind of emotional. personal response is inappropriate in a debate of the issues that may concern us.

However, I will continue to post comments here that meet the criteria the MD has set. I certainly hope the MD won't be singling me out because of the political content of my comments. I can assure you I would take a very dim view of that.

I plan to continue to read your comments and your column, make appropriate comments where and when I deem it to be correct, and on a personal note, I wish you all the best in all of your endeavors.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 11, 2010, at 8:56 PM

news: Your distortion of my comments is unwarranted and unwelcome. Leave me out of your comments, if you please.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Thu, Mar 11, 2010, at 8:40 PM

"Mississippi school sued for canceling prom over lesbian student"


Yes little Johnny...sexual discrimination is alive and well in America...but it'll cost them!

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 11, 2010, at 8:13 PM

" Conservative, Republican Senator Ensign scandal widens as new emails emerge"


Another example of conservative "family values" at work...

...lest we forget what these hypocrites do.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 11, 2010, at 7:29 PM

Here's one thing to keep in mind when proceeding in this forum:

"Tracers work both ways." U.S. Army Ordnance Manual

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Mar 11, 2010, at 7:26 PM

"U.S. Report Claims Afghan, Iraq Human Rights Abuses Are Up"


Is this an example of what our soldiers have sacrificed for?

Smooth move Bush/Republicans!

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 11, 2010, at 7:12 PM


I wouldn't depend on that if I were you lol lol lol.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 11, 2010, at 7:06 PM


Look mate, your personal attacks on me won't stop me from posting comments...get used to it.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 11, 2010, at 7:05 PM

Now Hickory, you know that personal attacks are not condoned on this site. The next post we may see is an appeal to, no a demand from editor Crump that he do his job and admonish you for such personal attacks. Some folks can dish it out..... As for me, this "sonny boy" will just go sit down before being told to do so.

-- Posted by Bcat on Thu, Mar 11, 2010, at 7:05 PM


I can't imagine why I would care about what you think mate.

Its a semi-free Country and I think you can still think what you want.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 11, 2010, at 7:04 PM

Hickory, thanks for that top dog link, by the way. I'll have to look up the place if I'm ever in NYC again.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Mar 11, 2010, at 7:03 PM

Good for you, News. All of us should think of ourselves as expert in our respective fields and express that confidence, but only if we're asked, and only in a matter-of-fact way.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Mar 11, 2010, at 6:46 PM

"Ex-police officer admits role in cover-up of Louisiana bridge shooting"


What? well this can't be true...we all know that 2 or more people have never conspired to commit a crime...right Kathy?

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 11, 2010, at 6:42 PM

'Police: U.S. troops kill Iraqi reporter

Iraqi journalists' union denounces shooting, demands probe"

Will justice be done? or will we get away with this crime too?

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 11, 2010, at 6:39 PM

"Moore: Democrats behaving like 'frightened animals'"


Well put Mike...well put.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 11, 2010, at 6:32 PM


Actually, I am an expert in economics. That is my field of expertise and I am well qualified.

As to attacks on my character...that is nothing more than an indicator that my opponents have lost their argument and I have been victorious in the debate. I wear such personal attacks as a badge of honor.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 11, 2010, at 6:30 PM

OKR, as it's always been, we have to pick and choose our battles. Nothing wrong with that, and there's nothing wrong with sticking up for your friends, which I've always done when the occasion warrants.

Maybe some people are like me and disagree with a bellicose manner. I may back the person's views, but I'd be the first to criticize comments made in that way.

That's how I am, and it's how I've always been. Dialogue is a two-way street, and all participants need to be respectful to one another. Since none of us are standing face-on, it's easy to forget or overlook common courtesies.

Even mild-mannered Cheetah bristled up at being called "sonny boy," so it can happen in the best of families, but the point is, it happens.

It's that .01% that NB talked about getting away from us every now and then. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Mar 11, 2010, at 6:30 PM


I failed to note that my question was rhetorical, but I appreciate your explanation all the same. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Mar 11, 2010, at 6:07 PM

Did you realize that burning coal is a leading cause of smog, acid rain, global warming, and air toxics?

-- Posted by CoalBurner on Thu, Mar 11, 2010, at 5:58 PM

I guess times have passed me by. Time was when it was the thing to do, i.e. stick up for your friends, and stick up for what you believed was right. Oh well. Gotta say this has been one of the stranger criticisms I have experienced.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Mar 11, 2010, at 5:15 PM

Heh heh...yeah...

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Mar 11, 2010, at 4:54 PM

Ha! What a yardbird he could've been, eh Hickory?

Cheetah, is the "top dog" phrase derived from a prison setting, perchance? :)

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Mar 11, 2010, at 4:29 PM

OKR, I thank you for your offer to come to my aid, but I'm capable of fending for myself, as each of us should be if we're going to open ourselves to criticism.

When I was a kid I had a pet bantam rooster who at times thought he was king of the hill, and every so often the others would put him in his place.

I'm not saying I agree to employing barnyard tactics, but sometimes they're the only recourse.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Mar 11, 2010, at 3:30 PM

Slater: I would have defended you my friend if the comment had been about you. To defeat another's arguments is one thing. To disparage arguments with personal attack is another. It was abut principle, not personality.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Mar 11, 2010, at 3:01 PM

I haven't heard, wheresthelove but am curious as well. Helped my brother tear down an old shed at his new house, and we found an old wooden tree swing. =) Anyone with stories of spring cleaning and discovered curiosities?

-- Posted by Green Eyes on Thu, Mar 11, 2010, at 2:52 PM

Does anyone know when annual citywide pick up will be this year.....got some junk to get rid of, spring cleaning and all that?

-- Posted by wheresthelove on Thu, Mar 11, 2010, at 2:23 PM

OKR, why not let News fight his own battles? He's a big boy, remember.

No one here is an expert on anything, and all we're doing is blabbing away in an attempt to clear our own airspace.

Turn all of the "slanderous" talk into humorous anecdote, for that's what it is, after all.

Speaking just for myself, of course. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Mar 11, 2010, at 2:22 PM

Just to reiterate Eric's earlier post at the beginning of March Speak Out: "Let's hope the conversation takes place under sunnier skies and warmer days!" The expression can be literal or symbolic. Let's make Speak Out "sunnier" and "warmer!"

-- Posted by Green Eyes on Thu, Mar 11, 2010, at 2:10 PM

Ad hominem ad nauseum...the forte of the desperately dull.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Mar 11, 2010, at 1:54 PM

So, Hickory, you must have had a good experience with boxfreeconcepts? Surely you wouldn't recommend it if you didn't.

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Thu, Mar 11, 2010, at 1:50 PM

Hickory Dickory Dock you have about run out your clock.

You latest hurl at News Across is slanderous by law, and disgusting in my personal opinion.

How dare you accuse him of fraudulently obtaining his academic degree at a bogus on line diploma mill? Any evidence? No.

Yeah I know you are going to say I was joking. Well dude you were also slanderous, and if that is what you call humor it ain't funny.

It may hurt News Across, but it hurts you more because you have revealed your stupidity.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Mar 11, 2010, at 1:35 PM

Good points, missy - tomorrow, we'll all work on to, too, two :)

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Thu, Mar 11, 2010, at 10:31 AM

All of us educated people need to remember a couple of basics --

your = personal pronoun, person addressed

you're = contraction; you are

Not pointing any fingers but when one brags about what is KNOWN, it seems to magnify what is apparently NOT known.

Maybe tomorrow we can cover "there, their, and they're"?!

Have a great day!


-- Posted by missy08 on Thu, Mar 11, 2010, at 8:56 AM

Hey Bcat - whats up?

Not hiding my head in the sand - just watching from the sidelines.

Just my opinion - but it appears that true discussion / debate gets lost in personal attack and condescending remarks on this site. Lots of talking down to folks, etc. Maybe this site could use more like Slater who apparently takes the time to come up with a correct / substantive / helpful answer to someone's question instead of calling that person an idiot for asking.

Too busy to get involved in all that drama.



-- Posted by zeke on Thu, Mar 11, 2010, at 8:27 AM


Odd that you didn't understand that a BBA is one degree and what a double major is. Odder yet that you didn't seem to be aware, judging by your statement, that one is required to take far more course work than just that required for their major.

Were you just confused? I think I was quite clear. I do find it most unfortunate that you seem to feel that when someone tears up your argument that somehow they are speaking down to you. Oh well...the World is full of surprises...eh mate?

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 11, 2010, at 7:26 AM

news you gave your opinion and yes I have been to a university and I do have a degree so you don't have to talk down to me. Once again news you prove my point. Thanks

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Mar 11, 2010, at 7:21 AM

"Socially conscious Christians take the fight to Glenn Beck"


-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 11, 2010, at 6:14 AM

I don't think so Kathy...but hey, your free to believe or not believe anything you want mate.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 11, 2010, at 6:13 AM

news: As I knew you would, you did an outstanding job of proving my point. Thanks.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Thu, Mar 11, 2010, at 5:53 AM

Sorry folks,

I am of course refering to the very public trials of treason of Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld and the rest of the gang.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Mar 11, 2010, at 5:24 AM

On the subject of conspiracy theories. I'm just a lowly citizen. I don't have any real facts or access to any real facts for that matter. Like most of you I really only know what the press has told me. Yes, I can do research on the internet but it's very hard to trust even that most times.

That being said however, when you consider what the Bush administration did right out in the open the the thought of what they may have actually managed to hide is terrifying.

To that end I am very disappointed with the Obama administration. By this time their very public trials for treason should be the focal point of the media. Instead we have situations where, for example, instead of sitting in prison, former Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich is doing bits on Lettermman to promote his appearance on Celebrity Apprentice. There you have it folks. That's where we are at. The only accountabilty politicians seem to have is the next election.

There certainly doesn't seem to be any punitive actions for them to worry about at all. Until that changes expect more of the same and probably much worse.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Mar 11, 2010, at 5:20 AM


You really should go back and re-read your comments some time mate...and while you are at it you might want to re-read mine too.

Anyway, I have just one degree a Bach of Business Administration with double majors in Economics and Accounting.

I see you probably didn't attend university...so let me help you out here. In college one is required to take far more course work than just those courses related to one's major.

As far as insulting your intelligence...well if I am wrong...show me...I am from Missouri mate...so again, show me where I am wrong and back it up with facts.

You were wrong about Ventura. You were wrong about Palin, and I gave you the facts. Show me where I was wrong.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 11, 2010, at 5:19 AM

news I have nothing to attack you personally for.Your post about my comment of Ventura had absolutely nothing to do with the point I was making. You are the one that always takes things personally and you insult anyone's intelligence that does not agree with you.

But boy I'm impressed with all those degrees. Wow just like Jerry Clower once said you are obviously educated beyond your intelligence because what you are posted is irrelevant and had nothing to do with the point I was making in my post. I guess I could post my degrees on here but what would that prove.

How do we know you even have those degrees why don't you post them so we can see them. You are the facts and figures guy.

It would be nice when someone post an opinion that you could post your opinion without interjecting the inferiority of the other person. When you disagree with liberals they treat you with contempt.

Are you sure you are not a congressman in disguise?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Mar 11, 2010, at 1:29 AM


You are absolutely correct. In fact, a Judge just recently allowed a lawsuit to go forward against Bush/Republican Secretary of defense Rumsfeld for torturing 2 American citizens, employees of an Iraqi contractor, Shield Group Security, after they called the FBI from Iraq to tell them they witnessed SGS employees handing money over to "Iraqi sheikhs.

The next day they found themselves in shackles. Their requests to speak with an attorney and to have that attorney present during questioning was refused. They were tortured in an American controlled prison in Iraq by American interrogators.

The judge pointed out that they have plenty of evidence to support their claims and that the civil rights of all American citizens have to be upheld no matter what soil they are standing on -- even in a war zone.

Rumsfeld thought that the executive branch was immune from law suits and/or prosecution from crimes and civil wrongs done while in office. He apparently hadn't read Nixon v USA, 1975 in which the Supreme Court ruled that Presidents (and any member of a President's administration) are subject to both prosecution and civil suits for crimes and wrongs committed while in office...after they are out of office.

No where in Rumsfeld's motion did he deny that he committed the crime...only that he believed he was immune to civil or criminal prosecution.

That should tell everyone just where the Republican mindset is with regards to our laws and with legitimate wistleblowers who's only intention is to make sure the authorities are aware of crimes. If the Republicans support the wrong do-er...the wistleblower is in serious trouble.


-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 11, 2010, at 12:51 AM

We only know what we want to know, and too often not even that.

I wish I had time to join in, but I don't at the moment as things are very busy.

NanaDot gotta love ya.

Scarpetta I haven't forgotten you girl. I just want to give you as legitimate an answer as I possibly can. That will take more thought, and time than I have at the moment.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Mar 11, 2010, at 12:41 AM

I have said before , how do you get the Law to investigate the Law? Even if there is one honest Lawman,the rest would discredit him. Like they do now, with anyone who shows decent.Thank for the whistleblowers! there's a lot of thing we would never have known with out them.

-- Posted by Jo on Wed, Mar 10, 2010, at 10:13 PM


Yeah that's it...recommend he bury his head in the sand and pretend everything is just fine...the same way you apparently have.

We the People need a new deal and we won't get it by running, hiding, and pretending our community or our Nation has no problems worth fixing.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Mar 10, 2010, at 10:11 PM

WOW--Hey Zeke, ydnasllew may have offered the advice of "run and never look back", earlier today with 'tongue in cheek'. Probably not bad advice at this point.

-- Posted by Bcat on Wed, Mar 10, 2010, at 10:08 PM

'Judge says gov't must allow funding for ACORN'

"A federal judge retained her position that it is unconstitutional for Congress to prevent funding for the activist group ACORN after a government request that she reconsider."


...and rightly so.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Mar 10, 2010, at 9:55 PM

Kathy Fairchild,

Frankly, relative to the money we have spent on war, the amount of money spent on apprehending the criminals behind the political assignations of the 60's is at best minuscule. I would recommend you do as I have done, and write or call Senators Bond and McCaskill as well as your Congressman and demand that they end these foreign wars and slash our over over-bloated, highly paranoid military budget and place our National priorities on those things you have indicated you are concerned with.

I too worry about justice, the poor, peace and a lot of other social ills. So I don't mind pointing out that our priorities seem to be on killing brown skinned people in foreign nations that posed no direct, immediate threat to our national security and certainly not on justice or poverty or peace. After all, one need only to follow the money to see where our misguided National priorities seem to be. Its a sad state of affairs.

However, to simply dismiss people who question conclusions drawn on high profile crimes by government officials who themselves may be suspect and/or complicit in those crimes and who base their conclusions on physically impossible evidence or speculation in crimes such as the Kennedy murders or the murders of the 3000 people who were working in the WTC on 9/11 as crazy or "conspiracy theorists" which has predjudicial, negative connotations, is not constructive. In the end, such dismissals tend not to serve justice but rather serve the interests of those who don't want justice done.

The American People have a right to see justice done as much as possible in these cases. The American People have the right to know the truth, and neither me nor the other millions of Americans, who have as yet unanswered questions, will be going anywhere anytime soon. We will continue to ask the tough questions, and we will continue to demand answers. We are loud and proud and we will not accept ridiculous answers that defy the laws of physics and insult our intelligence.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Mar 10, 2010, at 9:43 PM

news: You've stretched a very simple opinion on conspiracy theorists and their ideas into something nearly unrecognizable. And, to boot, you're missing my point entirely.

It makes no difference today who killed John Kennedy. He is dead and he won't be coming back. I wish we did know what happened, but we don't and we never will. And here's the worst of it - even if we DID eventually figure it all out, not one of the theorists alive today or yet to be born would believe it, anyway, unless it was their own pet theory.

All the money spent on "proving" the unprovable has been money thrown down a rathole and wasted, when it could have been spent on something useful.

And none of that very personal opinion has a bloody thing to do with how I feel about the general state of American justice today.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Mar 10, 2010, at 9:12 PM


Please...stop attacking me personally just because you can't attack my argument.

I hold a BBA with double majors in Economics and Accounting. During my education I also had to take science course, math courses including college algebra, college trig, and calculus, quantitative methods, English comp, English lit, foreign language courses, ect, in addition to law courses (18 semester hours), psychology (17 semester hours) and a whole sleu of electives. It took me a bit longer than most folks to graduate and yes I took a lot of course work, butI do have a holistic education and I make no apologies for that... and yes I had to study Newtons Laws of Physics. I also dabble in quantum physics as well as classical physics as a hobby. After all I don't work and I do have the time for such hobbies.

However, that has nothing to do with the fact that Sarah Palin quit her committment to the People of Alaska. As to the reasons she gives...I really don't care why she quit...I only care about that fact that she did quit. Interestingly enough, her almost-son-in-law says she told him and the rest of her family she was quitting because she could make more money working in the media. I guess you think its just a coincidence that she did just that...but I don't think so...and Jesse Ventura can read and watch news reports too. In addition, I don't think he believes that she did quit her elected commitment to work for Fox News is a coincidence either. But anyway, for what ever reason, she let down the voters of Alaska who elected her by failing to even finish one term...and that is a fact.

No personal attack on me will ever change the facts sonny boy.


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics... (paragraph 7)



http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/... (paragraph 12)

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Mar 10, 2010, at 8:43 PM

news I know she quite I said the Palin bashing was not becoming of a former governor. The reasons she quite was not because she is a quitter read your own links the facts are there.

I hope everyone things we are so blessed to have an expert on this post such as yourself. I knew you were an expert in economics and now your a physics expert. I feel humbled that you would even reply to my lowly post. I still have an opinion whether you think I qualify or not.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Mar 10, 2010, at 8:12 PM


I agree that we shouldn't go along if we don't agree with the outcome. The campaigns of Ross Perot and Ralph Nader are examples of voters showing their disapproval of the candidates from the two major parties. Some would say that third party candidates cause the wrong person to be elected in the case of close contests, but that's the media talking, in my estimation.

It does seem that we don't always have an acceptable choice, if we have a choice at all, thinking about this dopey health-care reform that Obama is trying to force passage of, at least as the news people report to us. Most of them wouldn't know health-care reform if it bit them on the H1N1.

The people have to begin making as much noise as possible, but I don't know how Washington will hear us if we can't rely on the media people to accurately convey just what Americans are thinking.

It really does seem like the time has come for peaceful demonstrations (I'm dreaming when I use the word, peaceful).

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Mar 10, 2010, at 7:54 PM


I checked the facts. Its a fact that Palin quit her commitment to the voters of Alaska by quitting the job half way through her first and only term as Gov. It turns out Jesse Ventura was correct.






-- Posted by news across on Wed, Mar 10, 2010, at 7:23 PM

Kathy Fairchild

Do you also believe we should stop spending money on bringing criminals to justice? Where does it stop when you allow criminals to get away with killing the Kennedys. Dr. King, and for demolishing the WTC and killing over 3000 people...then crafting some crazy conspiracy theory that 19 Arabs managed to topple buildings built to withstand hurricane force winds using nothing more than aircraft fuel...most of which can be seen burning up in the air on impact...and which has a maximum burning temperature of 1700 degrees while the minimum weakening point of the 47 asbestosis covered steel columns is nearly 2500 degrees...and do it all while also violating the laws of physics...laws that can't be violated without using controlled demolition?

How long are the American People expected to buy the Warren Commission's crazy conspiracy theory that a single shooter managed to kill JFK with a single bullet that also turned 90 degrees in mid-air with out striking anything?

These are crimes and the criminals appear to have gotten away with it...and then you want to just put it all out of your mind by saying its a "conspiracy theory" or dismiss it by saying it bores you.

Do you also take this position with bank robbers, child molesters, or serial killers? Perhaps you have 2 standards...one for "regular criminals" and one for the rich and powerful who are the only ones capable of orchestrating crimes such as major political assassinations or attacks on super-strong buildings.

You might be willing to turn a blind eye to these crimes but me and 100 million other American...including Jesse Ventura... are not.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Mar 10, 2010, at 7:16 PM

I don't believe in going alone with something i feel is wrong. And if you have no choice's, what do you do, just go along?

-- Posted by Jo on Wed, Mar 10, 2010, at 7:00 PM

I like some of the things that Ventura says when he is talking business but name calling and Palin bashing is not one of them. He needs to check his facts.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Mar 10, 2010, at 6:38 PM

news: Just my humble opinion, but I think most conspiracy theories, no matter where hatched or by whom, are a huge load of garbage. That includes, just for starters, the Kennedy assassinations, the World Trade Center and fluoride in our drinking water. The amount of time and energy being wasted on proving these theories - again, just my humble opinion - would be FAR better spent in addressing the problems we face today, in real time, for real people, in real distress.

Instead of spending money on figuring out how many bullets went in what direction 47 years ago, or how many planes and how many Arabs were involved in taking down the WTC and how they did it, not to mention whether our teeth are better or worse today than yesterday, we should be directing our attention and our MONEY to the very real problems of hunger, disease and climate change and how we can possibly continue to live in this world every day.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Mar 10, 2010, at 6:22 PM

Kathy Fairchild

Which conspiracy are you referring to specifically?

I certainly agree that in order to accept the official Bush explanation of the 9/11 attack, one has to suspend their belief in the laws of physics...or do you believe its possible for the WTC buildings to fall at free-fall speed ignoring the resistance. **** my lying eyes for telling me they saw 3 controlled demolitions that day.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Mar 10, 2010, at 6:10 PM

Xray said this:

"so Slater: Anyone who disagrees with you should stop wasting their time... that is funny. Maybe we like to discuss things... is it your place to tell people what they can or cannot discuss?"

ME: Xray, did I tell you to dry up? Did I say that? (strong nasal inflection)

(musing) Hmmm...Controlling topics. Not a bad suggestion!

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Mar 10, 2010, at 6:04 PM

news: Conspiracy theories just bore me to tears. It's a complete mystery to me why otherwise intelligent people can completely suspend their disbelief and glom onto something so improbable a 10-year-old could drive a truck through the holes in it.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Mar 10, 2010, at 6:03 PM

Kathy Fairchild

Yeah I watched that on Raw Story yesterday. One of the things I love about Ventura is that he does not mix words. He is a man who speaks his mind.

I also find it interesting when people criticize him for investigating conspiracies. From some of the things I have read, it would seem some folks believe that no 2 or more people have ever conspired to commit acts of violence, terrorism, or crimes...and yet many of these same folks are willing to buy into the Bush Administration's offical "conspiracy theory" that 19 Arabs managed to bring down the WTC buildings...and one of those buildings, number 7 was never even struck by a plane. That is a "theory" that requires one to suspend the laws of physics in order to believe it.

I think some folks have a bit of a double standard when it comes to conspiracies and other folks just have no clue at all as to the history of conspiracies.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Mar 10, 2010, at 5:45 PM

Break time! Time for a recess from all this gloomy talk about red and blue. :)


-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Mar 10, 2010, at 5:37 PM

Sorry - I should have posted the link to that info about Ventura:


-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Mar 10, 2010, at 5:27 PM

Cheetah, if this doesn't make you laugh until you cry, nothing will. This is what former Governor Ventura had to say on Larry King:

"Jesse Ventura, former governor of Minnesota and ex-pro wrestler is out making the media rounds promoting his new book, filled with "documented facts" about various New World Order conspiracy theories. During an appearance on CNN's Larry King Live this past week, the colorful and outspoken Jesse "the Body" did not disappoint, and he took aim at Sarah Palin, calling her a "quitter" who is only interested in making "big money" and said, he would not vote for her as president if she was the only person running. Ventura also derided the tea party movement as a right-wing joke and he ridiculed hate talker Rush Limbaugh for praising the medical care he received while in Hawaii, not realizing that the 50th state provides universal healthcare.

Regarding his views on Sarah Palin, Ventura pointed put that quitters like her certainly would not make it through the grueling Navy SEAL training:

VENTURA: "Well, it shows why she quit the governor. She wanted to cash in and make big money. It's that simple, you know? I wouldn't vote for her if she was the only candidate because she's a quitter. You know, she told the people of Alaska she wanted to be their governor and then halfway through the term she decides it's not her cup of tea anymore? Well, Larry, she'd never make it through Navy SEAL training, because if you say the words, "I quit," you're gone."

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Mar 10, 2010, at 5:24 PM

Smokin' Cheetah

I noticed you are particularly sensitive to typos.

Well don't worry sonny boy, its not a graded quiz.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Mar 10, 2010, at 5:06 PM


You are a resident of a State...not a citizen of a State.

And if you don't like the fact that I have both American and Australian citizenship...tough...get used to it 'cause it isn't going to change.

As far as Governor Ventura goes...I think a lot folks in MN like him just fine...or did you conduct a secret poll nobody else knows about?

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Mar 10, 2010, at 5:03 PM

Slater, thank you for your information that you shared. Honestly I am not sure if I am liberal or conservative or neither for that matter. I guess I never tried to put myself into a classification.

Jo, I personally disagree about either for or against....on certain things. I believe there is a gray area, that can have a person going either way on an issue. Although that could be my ability to have a reason for everything, who knows.

-- Posted by Scarpetta on Wed, Mar 10, 2010, at 4:44 PM


Choosing not to vote should never be an option. One cause of today's problems being so great is voter apathy. People become disinterested, or disenchanted, or feel disenfranchised and find it easier to drop out than to voice their opinion with their vote.

Remember what happened when the Obama campaign turned out a record number of voters. That was the expressed sentiment of the general public feeling inspired and motivated.

I believe that sentiment is still alive, and maybe even stronger, and I believe we'll have a much better picture about that after the Fall elections, but it won't happen if people don't vote, and it could very well backfire on the Democrats. Remember the "Silent Majority" turning out to elect Nixon in '68.

We only shortchange ourselves if we fail in our civic responsibilities.

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Mar 10, 2010, at 4:41 PM

Goodness, Cheetah, I had forgotten his Seal credentials. That makes everything okay, ESPECIALLy if "they" are in involved. LOLOLOL...thanks for the heads up. I knew I could count on you! :)

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Mar 10, 2010, at 4:39 PM

Personally i don't think there should be a center of anything. Either your for or against something! (In or out) And the ideology of the Republican party, has nothing to do with helping mankind,one way or the other! So in my mind there is no middle! If i didn't like anything about either Party i just wouldn't Vote! That's why i think we need a third party,just like Health Care, we need a choice?

-- Posted by Jo on Wed, Mar 10, 2010, at 3:40 PM

From an Associated Press wire story ... re: the fund raising event featuring Mr. Obama in St. Louis this evening ...

"About 1,000 people have secured spots for a $25 donation at a 'grassroots reception' in a downtown St. Louis hotel. But for a bigger donation, the seats get better. A cocktail reception and presidential dinner costs $2,400 per guest, and for $35,200, donors get a photo reception with Obama. Couples who can raise $50,000 get premier seating."

Looks like Mr. Monnig (see blogs) has a point when it comes to the government being for sale.

Sad days in America.


-- Posted by zeke on Wed, Mar 10, 2010, at 3:24 PM

So Ventura has three things going for him - bright, independent, not Sarah Palin. Just not feelin' the love, news, sorry.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Mar 10, 2010, at 2:43 PM

Scarpetta, if you don't think of yourself as fitting the labels of liberal or conservative (which equate to Democrat or Republican in political terms), then I applaud you for being a free thinker.

For me, it's always been about looking for the principle elements in the issue and then assessing the content of responses made by each political party. My support would then go to the side with the most logical responses, but only if I can fairly agree.

In my lifetime I've voted for candidates in both parties, and I'll continue to do so as long as the individual most represents my own viewpoint.

Concluding, if I have to choose a place for myself along the spectrum, I suppose I'd be found somewhere around the middle.

I'm interested to see how OKR answers your question. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Mar 10, 2010, at 12:55 PM

Oklahoma Reader,

Sorry for being tardy to the party. No trap intended. :) I am not a big politics person, sure I have my own opinions on certain key topics (i.e. gun control, abortion, etc.). I guess my main question was, how does one determine if they are right, left or center? Are there key questions I can ask myself, to determine this? Does right, left and center go hand and hand with Democrat, Republican, or Liberal? I'm very sorry if I am making no sense.

I tend to stay out of the political conversation because it is like Greek to me, on most things.

Thanks for the help in helping me understand this mess.

-- Posted by Scarpetta on Wed, Mar 10, 2010, at 11:55 AM

Kathy: Funny. Desperate times call for desperate measures, sometimes even disparate measures.

Actually Kuchinich would be my favorite candidate.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Mar 10, 2010, at 11:01 AM

You might want to ask the people of Minnesota how successful they think Jesse Ventura was...or are you a citizen there also?

Our home office is in MN and they all had a different opinion.

-- Posted by outsider on Wed, Mar 10, 2010, at 10:44 AM

Kathy Fairchild

Governor Ventura was a very successful Governor of Minnesota, has far more political experience than Sarah Palin, and is a man who is a true political independent. He is also quite bright. Perhaps you might read his latest book sometime.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Mar 10, 2010, at 10:31 AM

Today's piano lesson:


-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Mar 10, 2010, at 10:23 AM

Sorry again - the refererences about the dog are on the Chamber's web site.


-- Posted by zeke on Wed, Mar 10, 2010, at 7:57 AM


Sorry to intrude - but that's DAWG the Bounty Hunter. From the sites references to teh city, I can see the real DOG is in the park next to the newspaper office.

Just an observation.


-- Posted by zeke on Wed, Mar 10, 2010, at 7:55 AM

Jessie Ventura? Surely you are not serious. If Jessie's viable, maybe Dog the Bounty Hunter should be under consideration, too, eh? Or, um, let's see....any other faux politicians we can look at?

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Mar 10, 2010, at 7:25 AM

Well OKR,

I agree with you and Congressman Kucinich.

The funny thing is that it would be cheaper, faster, easier, and better to simply extend medicare benefits to all citizens and lawful alien residents.

I know that is what they did here in Australia and its been working well since the early 80's.

I get in to see my doctor right away every time, my taxes here are the same as in the USA on the same level of income, and we just recently extended coverage to include basic dental as well.

Its too bad a few bad apples in the USA seem to be in complete control of the entire political system -- and this despite the fact that they are a small minority.

Fortunately, we can fire many of them in this years election.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Mar 10, 2010, at 4:28 AM

Thanks for the Kuchinich link News. What a guy! One of the few that has not sold out to the corporatocracy. The rotten health care bill needs to be thrown out with the trash that put it together.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Mar 10, 2010, at 1:02 AM

News Across: Jesse Ventura as a candidate for president? H-m-m-m...intriguing. I certainly would not rule out voting for him.

We will see what happens. The possibility exists that by 2011 such conditions may exist to make such a maverick candidacy viable. He could further his cause by becoming the candidate on a congealed ticket bringing together the Green Party, Libertarian Party, and several others. Importantly one of those would have to be a minor party known for certain conservative leanings. I don't have a specific suggestion as to which. Perhaps one of our conservative cohorts could suggest one.

How about it conservatives? Jesse Ventura for president? Centrists too, would you consider voting for him?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Mar 9, 2010, at 11:45 PM

Governor Ventura: 'I despise the two parties'


Do I have to be the first to say it? Ok...Ventura for President 2012!!!

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Mar 9, 2010, at 7:27 PM

Okie, Quiet! You're revealing my secret identity! Yeah, I guess it's not so secret. I'm the movie critic, Zeke. But many of you have me at a disadvantage; you know who I am, but I don't know who many of you are.

Alas, I'm also not as confident in other arenas as I am in film opinion. Besides, I wouldn't want someone not to read me, just because I love or hate Obama. Although, I'm sure I've worn my political opinions on my sleeves enough in some film critiques.

And now, I've discovered that you can't blog and cook at the same time. Gotta go, the bacon's burning.

Come over and visit me in The Well. "Shutter Island" opens in Marshall on Friday. I expect comments on my review (already posted) from all you regulars.

-- Posted by ydnasllew on Tue, Mar 9, 2010, at 6:35 PM

"Kucinich willing to cast the vote that kills health reform"


They need to scrap this bill and get busy passing legislation to extend medicare to all American citizens and lawful alien residents.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Mar 9, 2010, at 5:52 PM

Good question Scarpetta. Are you setting a trap? ;)

Many of us hold views that are predominantly toward one end of the political spectrum, or the other. It does not mean that one necessarily hold every view that skews toward on or the other.

To my way of thinking Libertarians are a good example of that.

Beyond that I have to ask you to give context to provide a more specific answer to your question.

I am assuming that you know the general positions associated with the left, and the right.

If you are asking how the names left, and right became representative of opposing political positions my recall is that it originated in the British parliament. Conservatives sat on the right, and liberals on the left. You might want to check that on Wikepedia, or other defining web sites.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Mar 9, 2010, at 5:46 PM

Andrew...I knew that. I chuckled, but could not resist the weak segue to fill new comer Zeke in on some of the peculiarities of the blog.

By the way I would like to see, on this blog, more comment from you.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Mar 9, 2010, at 5:30 PM

I feel the need to clarify that I was making a joke, but it seems my funny had a point of truth in it. Be afraid, Zeke. Be very afraid.

Again. Joking people! You're like gargoyles waiting to pounce.

Welcome to our zaniness, Zeke.

-- Posted by ydnasllew on Tue, Mar 9, 2010, at 3:51 PM

Oklahoma Reader,

If I may, how does one determine if they are "right, left or center"?

-- Posted by Scarpetta on Tue, Mar 9, 2010, at 3:10 PM

Zeke thanks for joining in. I look forward to considering your opinion.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Mar 9, 2010, at 2:42 PM


Thanks for the insight. Seems that all of us - left, right, or center - are wondering how to fix what's going on in our government. Good to see such a diverse group on this site. I will probably add my "just right of center" views from time to time.


-- Posted by zeke on Tue, Mar 9, 2010, at 2:18 PM

One further point Zeke that I failed to mention is that many blogs that lean toward politics are a congress of those of one particular political persuasion. Here we have a Heartland blog featuring the voices of those left, right, and center. Sure, sometimes the discussion devolves to argument, but there is passion here. We are challenged by those of opposing views.

I am generally speaking, a leftist searching for answers that we all; left, right, and center can share to restore our nation. I am saddened as much when an adept participant espousing a different view drops out, as when one disappears that is closer to my own base.

For instance there are two libertarians who in the past posted frequently under the nom de plume AFBrat, the other as White Tornado. I found their comments provocative, and challenging. I wish that they would post more often. They challenged me to think.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Mar 9, 2010, at 1:38 PM

Zeke: Don't be dissuaded from joining the fray. Welcome. New voices are always welcome.

For the life of me I don't understand why those who are dissatisfied with the themes on this blog would suggest that you not post when they have no knowlege as to what you will be posting. That seems to be counterproductive to their wishes for more variety. There you have it.

It is as puzzling as the fact that they complain about endless political discussion, but have nothing more to offer than a complaint about endless political discussion. Hey the quilters (no disrespect to quilters intended) could inundate the blog if they wished to post as could any other special interest group.

I guess the unrealized challenge they face is to not complain, but rather just jump in with what they have to say.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Mar 9, 2010, at 1:13 PM

Thanks for the warning - I think.

Not sure I'll run - but I may now proceed cautiously.


-- Posted by zeke on Tue, Mar 9, 2010, at 12:21 PM

Run, Zeke! RUN!!! Run for your life and never look back!.

-- Posted by ydnasllew on Tue, Mar 9, 2010, at 11:25 AM

Thanks Slater

You are right - seems to be a lot of talk on here about politics. I tend to agree that the whole process in Washington seems to be messed up at present. Don't really know what to do about it. We try to change directions at election time only to find we are still going down the same path.

Interesting to watch the banter, as it were, on this site. Some opiniated folks on here for sure.

Don't know where everyone hales from that posts here, but it looks like a lively discussion is alive and well out there in the hinterlands.



-- Posted by zeke on Tue, Mar 9, 2010, at 11:03 AM

Welcome, Zeke,

What's up, you ask? Well, not much. Just a lot of jawing about politics, mostly, as you can see.

Jump right in! The water's fine. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Mar 9, 2010, at 9:45 AM


I am a newbie here.

What's up?


-- Posted by zeke on Tue, Mar 9, 2010, at 8:55 AM


This economic depression began in December 2007 mate...a direct result of Bush/Republican failed neo-classical economic policies...and you want to blame liberals for this mess?


Its another example of conservatives refusing to take responsibility for their policies.

As to the source of your information...you cited a conservative opinion piece. The piece fails to consider any variables unique to Texas such as the oil boom and fails to take into account phantom unemployment. In addition, the author cites no specific economic data that would lead one to conclude that California's recession -- which began when the National recession began -- is tied directly to social programs that have existed just as well during boom economic periods...other than his own empty opinion. He shows no mathematical, positive correlation between any State's part in this National recession and State social programs.

Also, it is difficult to separate California's Republican Governor, who has presided over the California economic problems for years, and the current state of affairs in California. Clearly, he has used standard conservative neo-classical economic policies during his tenure...as all Republican leader do. I would hardly call that and the National economic recession that is also the result of conservative neo-classical economic policies a coincidence...especially given the empirical evidence that neo-classical economic polices cause recessions every 5 to 6 years (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/06/magazine/06Economic-t.html).

It was an interesting op-ed piece but his argument falls apart when he fails to show any positive correlations to tie his assumptions to reality.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Mar 9, 2010, at 7:06 AM

Here's the link


I do disagree that Obama has anything conservative about him or his policies. Liberal policies got us in this mess and you are right more of the same will not get us out of it.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Mar 9, 2010, at 6:41 AM


Would you please post the links to your sources of information regarding Texas -- after all you got those figures somewhere. That way the reader can check your sources for timeliness, accuracy, and qualification.

Also, President Obama may have run slightly left of center...but he is governing right of center and utilizing many of the same failed policies of the Bush conservatives.

What other variables besides a Republican Government in Texas are you citing? Could the fact that the oil industry in Texas has been booming be responsible for the slightly lower than National rate of unemployment? Where are you figures for the other states you refer to? And please include the link to your sources of information please

Until this Nation returns to its liberal roots, you can expect the economy to continue its downward spiral and a continuing erosion of human rights.

By the way, unemployment in Texas was at least 8.2% in Jan 2010...and that does not include phantom unemployment -- those who are no longer on the unemployment roll but who continue to be unemployed...(http://www.aliceechonews.com/articles/2010/03/06/business/doc4b8fd1e2a40fd375378565.txt). That 8.2% a pretty high figure and to get a more accurate figure that would include phantom unemployment -- double the number that are collecting unemployment insurance benefits.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Mar 9, 2010, at 5:14 AM

How come Texas economy is thriving with their low taxes, low benefits government. Their unemployment has been below the national average for the last decade. Their schools have better test scores. People are moving into Texas and moving out of California and other high tax states.

Everywhere in this country that has big government and high taxes and big unions. They are on the verge of bankruptcy. The unemployment is higher than the national average. Their schools spend more per student and have lower test scores. Businesses are laying people off or moving. Big incompetent government is not the answer.

We have a president and congress that have increased our budget deficit and spent more money than any of the past administrations. Sounds like we will follow California, Michigan, etc.

These are liberal policies that have failed and they have failed everytime they have been tried. But liberals don't think they have failed they just think if it doesn't work then they haven't been allowed to do enough of it.

We the people are always able to spend our own money better than government. I say fire them all.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Mar 9, 2010, at 4:40 AM


How are ya mate.

I think one of the problems with conservatives is, as their defacto Party leader Rush Limbaugh said, they want our President to fail...and of course in order for that to happen America must also fail (1). They hope our President's attempts to save our National economy will fail. His words...not mine. These same sentiments have been echoed by a number of prominent conservatives (2).

Clearly, given the 2 recession/depressions we experienced under President Bush as a result of conservative neo-classical economic policies and the "Spend and Borrow" policies of the Republican Party (3) (4)...and that we continue to experience, the two pointless, hopeless, expensive, unnecessary, foreign wars, the systematic suspension of civil rights (Patriot Act, unlawful denials of habeas corpus rights...and all other civil rights...to some American citizens arrested in America ie, Jose Padilla (5)), torture and other atrocities of conservative policies, they really mean it. The conservatives mean what they say and they say they want our Presidents policies to fail...and of course, if his policies fail so does America.

I hope and pray my fellow Americans will wake up and see where the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Sarah Palin, G. Beck, and the conservative Republicans and Democrats are taking America. I hope they wake up soon...before they pass the "event horizon"...the point of no return.

We the People need a new deal...and we sure won't get it as long as we keep electing conservatives of both major Parties to positions of power. Instead, all we can expect is more and more of the "same old same old."

(1) http://www.bet.com/News/Decision08/behea...

(2) http://www.boston.com/news/politics/poli...


(3) http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy2...

(4) http://www.nber.org/cycles/dec2008.html

(5) http://revcom.us/a/1239/padilla.htm

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Mar 9, 2010, at 4:02 AM

G'day News.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Mar 9, 2010, at 2:29 AM

A quote from an interesting commentary about the botched health care proposal being considered.

"This is madness. Expanding Medicare to cover everyone, as I have written earlier, would actually save everyone money immediately, and the country as a whole. Consider that the most expensive consumers of health care--the elderly--are already in the system. Adding younger, healthier people to Medicare would cost incrementally much less." Full content available at the link on my preceding post.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Mar 9, 2010, at 2:28 AM

This is the link: http://www.thiscantbehappening.net/?q=no...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Mar 9, 2010, at 2:22 AM

"Judge allows lawsuit against Rumsfeld over torture of US citizens"


Is this the America I grew up in that stood for justice and righteousness and freedom? What happened to the America that was once called "Great?"

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Mar 9, 2010, at 2:09 AM


As an economist I take great exception to your erroneous claims regarding the Great Depression. Long before our entry into WWII we were well on the road to recovery as a result of President Roosevelt's use of Keynesian economic policies. Had the policies of President Hoover (neo-classical economic theory) continued, with out any doubt, we would have never recovered and would have become another large, desperately poor nation.

Its time to stop trying the same conservative policies over and over again and expecting different results.

We need a new deal.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Mar 8, 2010, at 9:36 PM

Oklahoma Reader

I don't know where folks sometimes get the notion that liberals won't fight wars...especially since almost all our victorious wars were conducted by liberal Presidents...including both WWI and WWII.

Yes President Johnson's domestic policies certainly were liberal. As a result of those policies, the largest class of poor...the elderly...moved into the middle class and benefited greatly. In addition, his successes in the war on poverty were important as were his success in establishing guarantees of Federal protection from racial discrimination. Its most unfortunate that under President Bush our senior citizens again became the largest block of poor in the Country.

Folks we have been trying conservative approaches ever since President Reagan and you can see where its gotten us...2 wars ongoing, our Government nearly bankrupt, our economy on a continuing downward spiral, torture has now become acceptable to many Americans, spying on us by our Government has become the norm.

How long do we have to watch our futures going down the tubes before we begin to ask ourselves if conservatism...from both parties...is the correct course? How many times will we continue to keep doing the same things and expecting different results?

Its time we give liberalism a chance. Its time we try something new.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Mar 8, 2010, at 9:31 PM

Government intervention in the 30's kept us in a depression for almost 10 years and the exact same thing is happening today. The more government gets involved in the economy the deeper our depression will be. Capitalism will bring this economy back if left alone by the government.

The problem now is that capitalism was hijacked by government involvement so now they want to blame capitalism. The Democratic party now is imploding because of distrust among themselves. They think they are being double crossed by our President and they may be right. Check out this article in the Wall Street Journal.


-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Mar 8, 2010, at 9:25 PM

No quarrel with what you said News, I was cracking wise with a germ of truth in it.

Also, if it were not for Lyndon Johnson making the tragic decision to stick our nose into something that was not our business we might also be reaping the benefits of a healthier society even today. We might have been mentioning him in the same breath as Roosevelt. Great promise for our nation devolved into literally sucking the life blood out of us, and draining our wealth for folly.

It pays to remember that Johnson was a liberal. Our innate lust for war supersedes political persuasion.

So, here we are again embroiled in misbegotten imperialistic misadventure. What else is new, News.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Mar 8, 2010, at 7:06 PM

"Seniors pinched by rising costs for home care"

"Many may be pushed into costly nursing homes if states slash programs"


-- Posted by news across on Mon, Mar 8, 2010, at 5:38 PM

Oklahoma Reader

The corporate swill they are consuming is conservative swill from conservative corporations.

Again, the problem is that we have 2 conservative parties and no liberal party. Clearly conservatism has failed the American People and perhaps its time we finally try a liberal approach.

It certainly worked the last time we tried it back in the 1930's.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Mar 8, 2010, at 5:31 PM

News Across

I believe we have two constipated parties. They have been on an unhealthy diet of corporate swill, and nothing else for so long that they can't get a necessary job done.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Mar 8, 2010, at 1:42 PM

Tasty Slater. Thank you. We are in the midst of a spring rain today. I'm glad I finally could get some spring onions in the ground this past weekend. The song was appropriate.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Mar 8, 2010, at 1:34 PM

Here's a ballad for all of you who are too blue while waiting on Spring to arrive:


-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Mar 8, 2010, at 12:50 PM

Oklahoma Reader

I believe the problem is that we have 2 conservative parties...the Democrats and the Republicans.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Mar 8, 2010, at 3:55 AM

Most of us are unaware as to how our government has beeb playing fast, and loose for years with gross production, and production efficiency statitistics for years. The result being things looking better than they are.

Now the Obama Administration is cutting back on those employed to track it, although they admit changes should be made, that the figures are wrong, and we should have more people to solve the problem.

Whether you are from a Red state or a Blue state, you will be seeing red, and feeling blue when you discover one more way they lie to us.http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/3/7/843771/-Has-Our-Govt-Understated-Labor-Offshoring-For-Decades

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Mar 8, 2010, at 12:54 AM

Here is a link to a thought provoking commentary by David Sirota. http://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/index.... It uses examples from both the Republican Party, and the Democratic Party as he suggests what is wrong. This is a little different take that is not grounded in party politics. It is authentic fair, and balanced.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Mar 7, 2010, at 11:55 PM

rr3 an apology given because the offended person thinks it is due is no apology at all. A sincere apology is based on an understanding by the offender that the offense occured, and an expression of contrition.

I would have no other.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Mar 7, 2010, at 11:36 PM

ND: JUST like old times. Same modus operandi. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Mar 7, 2010, at 11:26 PM


How I use my time is none of your business.

As far as working goes..no thanks...I am financially independent.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Mar 7, 2010, at 10:50 PM


Bush has admitted to the spying numerous times and he was taped saying it and there were millions of witnesses. In addition, we now have the memos of him ordering the "Sharpened Interrogation Techniques"...oops that was the Gestapo title of their interrogation program...same techniques though...I meant of course Bush's "Enhanced Interrogation Techniques." I think we have plenty of evidence to prove it and the factual evidence is that in fact he did commit those acts...by his own admission.

While he has not yet been tried for his crimes, there is no question that the crimes were committed and that he was responsible. I suggest you join me and millions of other Americans and ask the Attorney General to bring charges against Bush and we allow a jury to decide.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Mar 7, 2010, at 10:46 PM


Pretty serious crimes (accusations) indeed. Now let's try holding President Bush to the same standards to which you just held President Obama. Just when did the Supreme Court determine that Bush was guilty of any of these crimes? For that matter, when did any court at any level convict him? Face it. You're selling and maybe a handful are buying. Perhaps a minimum wage job anywhere doing anything might be a more profitable use of your time. But it is yours to spend or waste as you see fit. That is one freedom that we still enjoy here, at least for now.

-- Posted by Bcat on Sun, Mar 7, 2010, at 10:03 PM


Bush spied on American citizens with out a warrant in direct violation of Title 50, Chapter 36. In addition, he has multiple violations of the Geneva Conventions...specifically the 3rd Convention...and that is a direct violation of Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 118 of Federal Acts which prohibits violations of the Geneva Conventions and specifically prohibits torture as defined in the 3rd Geneva Conventions. This is a crime punishable by up to the death penalty and he did it multiple times. I think those are pretty serious.

As far as President Obama violating the Constitution...when did the Supreme Court rule that any of his policies violate the 10th Amendment? In fact, the 10th Amendment has very little authority and even fewer applications. Could you please explain in detail how the President's health reforms violate the 10th Amendment.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Mar 7, 2010, at 9:23 PM

I found this that rates our senators and representatives according to how they vote on fiscal matters.

100% Taxpayers friend

0% big spender

All are given a percentage rating. Very interesting!!


-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Mar 7, 2010, at 9:22 PM

okr and news I will apologize where you think apology is due. I know you may be surprised okr. Hey maybe I could go on an apology tour like the president. Sorry I couldn't pass that one up.

As for the law breaking and corruption during 8 years of Bush pales in comparison to the last year of Obama. The constitution has been thrown out the window. Obama says that the constitution is a flawed document. Government health care violates the 10th amendment. But we have the president that doesn't care about the constitution and he took an oath to defend it.

Check out http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?i...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Mar 7, 2010, at 8:59 PM

Oklahoma Reader

I find it interesting, but not surprising, that the deceit, corruption, and law breaking, and lack of ethics we saw for 8 years under Bush, which still continues in the Republican party today, are mere reflections of the "values" held by so many of their supporters.

This is one of the main reasons I say...

...the Party of NO! Has got to Go!

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Mar 7, 2010, at 5:46 PM


Please add this to your list.

8.) The war on drugs

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Mar 7, 2010, at 4:27 PM

rr3: You said " Everything you and news put on here is someone else's material also."

That is a lie. You have lied, you have plagiarized. What else have you got? Obviously not the capacity to own up to your own egregious behavior. Instead you revert to finger pointing, and brazen whoppers to deflect attention away from your own flaws. Have you no shame?

From most I would expect an apology. Your conduct assures me that is a futile expectation.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Mar 7, 2010, at 3:51 PM


When ever I post something that is someone else's work, I always include the link to the source.

As far as moving to Australia, its not that easy mate. Australia is the 2nd hardest country in the World to emigrate to, and a person has to have an reason acceptable to the Australian Government. It is a sovereign country mate...not a State of the USA.

As far as the USA goes, I live there also mate...I have a property in Independence. I am also an Australian citizen and proud of that too mate.

And for my part mate, I love the content of your comments. There is nothing better than free speech and conservative comments that helps people remember why we fired the Republicans in the last 2 elections.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Mar 7, 2010, at 8:32 AM

thanks eric

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Mar 7, 2010, at 8:16 AM

Posting comments obtained from another source without attribution is plagiarism. As long as you're copying & pasting, include the address or title/author of the source material.

And I urge people *not* to just copy and paste stuff from elsewhere. Summarize and include the address. We're more interested in hearing what *you* have to say.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Sun, Mar 7, 2010, at 8:05 AM

okr you just keep exposing yourself I didn't claim any as my own anyway. Everything you and news put on here is someone else's material also.

You accusing me is a bit hypocritical.

Maybe you could move to Australia to be with news then you can brag about being a US citizen but sure glad you don't live here.

How about commenting on the content of something instead downplaying other people's comments as plagerism, unreliable sources or that's all over the internet wah,wah,wah.

I think it really exposes you and you don't like it. I'm not saying that I haven't done the same thing but some post on here are informative and interesting and you quite downplaying mine I will quite exposing you.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Mar 7, 2010, at 7:00 AM

Oklahoma Reader

Thank you for exposing plagiarism.

When people commit plagiarism, they are stealing...plain and simple.

Isn't interesting how some will defend their faith which mandates honesty then they will turn around and attempt to steal other people's work and claim it as their own.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Mar 7, 2010, at 3:56 AM

Oh and xray...

We don't allow Walmart in Australia. We have no Walmarts here. I might add that when I am in the USA I never shop at walmart. I only do business with local small businesses. I pay more and I get a lot more in terms of quality. I support local small businesses because they are also my friends and neighbors. They are a part of the local human community. Walmart never gets a single penny of mine and I do just fine.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Mar 7, 2010, at 3:46 AM

mrxray says..."jobs leave the US for the same reasons they leave states..."

Only in an unprotected capitalist economy xray.

This does not happen in a scientifically planned economy.

Its just another example of a failed economic system.

We need a new deal America!

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Mar 7, 2010, at 3:41 AM

jobs leave the US for the same reasons they leave states like california.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Mar 7, 2010, at 3:30 AM

Obama's spending is sending the Green jobs to China right now... Obama's admin is NO LESS responsible for sending jobs overseas. There are ways to prevent this but no one cares about the reality of any policy or law that they make in DC, just that something, anything gets passed in desparation.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Mar 7, 2010, at 3:29 AM

PS OKR is the Marshall Democrat News Message board police.....

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Mar 7, 2010, at 3:25 AM

so Slater: Anyone who disagrees with you should stop wasting their time... that is funny. Maybe we like to discuss things... is it your place to tell people what they can or cannot discuss?

Newsacross... I like Pelosi because DAILY she proves that the Dems are liars... she claims hers is the most ethical House.... Yet they replace ONE tax cheater with another tax cheater... that is Democrat logic.

As for Walmart... if you all hate walmart so much, dont shop there. Go to Target, Costco, spend money in local shops in Marshall or nearby towns, buy groceries from the other grocer in town. OTHERWISE, when you spend your money in Walmart you are just telling them you condone their behaviors. You do have choices, you just have to drive farther and pay more for what you want.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Mar 7, 2010, at 3:25 AM

And finally rr3 I am not going to parrot what is said on this link as they are not my original words. However you may have a real affinity for the message, or at least the method of presentation. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiA4G-oLF...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Mar 7, 2010, at 2:57 AM


This is where you can find the twenty two sites "your" Walmart should run the country bit appears.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Mar 7, 2010, at 2:31 AM

Oh, also rr3 your Walmart to run the economy? It is at twenty two different sites on the net. Again, just a link please.

Like this:http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4DKUS_enUS216US226&q=MAYBE+we+should+hire+the+guys+who+run+Wal-Mart+to+Fix+the+economy.++This+should+be+read+and+understood+by+all+Americans+Democrats%2c+Republicans%2c+EVERYONE%21%21++1.+Americans+spend+%2436%2c000%2c000+at+Wal-Mart+Every+hour+of+every+day.+2..+This+

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Mar 7, 2010, at 2:25 AM

Here are just two that show it rr3, just so you can't argue being exposed AGAIN. http://www.slate.com/discuss/forums/thre...


And here is a google site that indicates your same tired refrain appears 1,140 different places:


Way to go, NOT

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Mar 7, 2010, at 2:13 AM

rr3: you just can't bring yourself to stop plagiarizing can you? The list you provided regarding getting it right (the post office, etc.) is all over the internet in the form you chose, and similar ones. Just a link please.

As long as you keep copying other's work, and exhibiting it as your own I will keep exposing you for what you are.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Mar 7, 2010, at 1:58 AM

So, was it ever determined if the former mayor's residence is to the east of the old 240 highway viaduct?

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Mar 6, 2010, at 11:34 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
The Latimer's live in Marshall just west of the Eastwood bridges.

Pelosi is way too conservative for me.

She lost me when she refused to do the right thing and Impeach Bush for high crimes and misdemeanors committed by him while in office (multiple violations of Title 50, Chapter 36 and multiple violations of Titel 18, Part 1, Chapter 118 as well as lying to a joint Session of Congress which is also a crime...whether a person is under oath or not).

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Mar 6, 2010, at 11:21 PM


As I've suggested to Xray and others, since no one in Congress is aware of this Speak Out blog, you're wasting your time and this space. Try making your points with those who are supposed to be working FOR us and not AGAINST us.

I suspect that many Democrats may agree with you about the worthlessness of Pelosi. She's about on a par with that worthless Texan she replaced, except she hasn't yet been indicted for crookery.

Wal*Mart is the epitome of what's foul in Corporate America. If you don't already know that, you should spend some time studying up on its business practices.

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Mar 6, 2010, at 11:15 PM


Walmart is also the reason so many people got laid off from the Americold Logistics warehouse in Marshall back in 2004 and 2005...and those jobs are now lost forever.

I am sure the folks who lost those good paying jobs out there would love to thank walmart....NOT!

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Mar 6, 2010, at 11:06 PM

rr3yv0 wants the same folks responsible for shipping our jobs to China to be in charge of Congress...how typical and what a crazy idea.

As I have believed since watching their behavior under Bush...most conservatives are anti-American and they hope we fail...as Rush Limbaugh pointed out.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Mar 6, 2010, at 10:19 PM

To President Obama and all 535 voting members of the Legislature,

It is now official you are ALL corrupt morons:

1. The U.S. Post Service was established in 1775. You have had 234 years to get it right and it is becoming more unsustainable by the day.

2. Social Security was established in 1935. You have had 74 years to get it right and it is bankrupt.

3. Fannie Mae was established in 1938. You have had 71 years to get it right. It is bankrupt and now has an unlimited line of credit from the Fed.

4. The War on Poverty started in 1964. You have had 45 years to get it right; $1 trillion of our money is confiscated each year and transferred to "the poor" and they only want more.

5. Medicare and Medicaid were established in 1965. You have had 44 years to get it right and they are bankrupt.

6. Freddie Mac was established in 1970. You have had 39 years to get it right. It is bankrupt and now has an unlimited credit line from the Fed.

7. The Department of Energy was created in 1977 to lessen our dependence on foreign oil. It has ballooned to 16,000 employees with a budget of $24 billion a year and we import more oil than ever before. You had 32 years to get it right and it is an abysmal failure.

You have FAILED in every "government service" you have shoved down our throats while overspending our tax dollars AND YOU WANT AMERICANS TO BELIEVE YOU CAN BE TRUSTED WITH A GOVERNMENT-RUN HEALTH CARE SYSTEM??

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Mar 6, 2010, at 10:12 PM

MAYBE we should hire the guys who run Wal-Mart to Fix the economy.

This should be read and understood by all Americans Democrats, Republicans, EVERYONE!!

1. Americans spend $36,000,000 at Wal-Mart Every hour of every day.

2.. This works out to $20,928 profit every minute!

3. Wal-Mart will sell more from January 1 to St. Patrick's Day (March

17th) than Target sells all year.

4. Wal-Mart is bigger than Home Depot + Kroger + Target + Sears + Costco + K-Mart combined.

5. Wal-Mart employs 1.6 million people and is the largest private Employer, and most speak English.

6. Wal-Mart is the largest company in the history of the World.

7. Wal-Mart now sells more food than Kroger & Safeway combined, and keep in mind they did this in only 15 years.

8. During this same period, 31 supermarket chains sought bankruptcy.

9. Wal-Mart now sells more food than any other store in the world.

10. Wal-Mart has approx 3,900 stores in the USA of which 1,906 are Super Centers; this is 1,000 more than it had 5 Years ago.

11. This year 7.2 billion different purchasing experiences will occur At a Wal-Mart store. (Earth's population is approximately 6.5 Billion.)

12. 90% of all Americans live within 15 miles of a Wal-Mart.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Mar 6, 2010, at 10:10 PM

Does anyone have a insight as to why Marshall gas is $2.65/gallon, while Waverly is at $2.49 and Lexington is only $2.38???? That's quite a difference! This seems to be happening more and more often when Marshall gas prices are compared to the surrounding towns. What's up?

-- Posted by pink lady on Sat, Mar 6, 2010, at 10:07 PM

Obamacare Declares War On Growth Capital


-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Mar 6, 2010, at 9:56 PM

not a pretty picture


-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Mar 6, 2010, at 9:50 PM

Iran's Ahmadinejad calls Sept 11 "big fabrication"


Well one thing is for sure, Bush's explanation sure doesn't hold any water from a physics standpoint. As to who was behind it...perhaps the same folks who killed the Kennedy's and De. King...

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Mar 6, 2010, at 9:02 PM

President Obama asks Congress for 'up or down' vote on health reform


Let's hope Senator McCaskill is listening...We the People want our business to come up for a straight up or down vote!!

Senator McCaskill...get rid of the filibuster, Senate rule 22...and lets get some work done for a change up there.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Mar 6, 2010, at 8:53 PM

Exclusive: Famed NYT reporter tells Michael Moore capitalism driving humanity's downfall


-- Posted by news across on Sat, Mar 6, 2010, at 7:06 PM


Granted President Obama is not the scumbag Bush was nor are the Democrats as evil as the Republicans, but that does not mean we on the left like any of them. As to the next Presidential election...I will probably be voting for either the Green Candidate or the Socialist Party candidate. However, if it looks like President Obama needs my vote...rather than allowing a Republican in...I will vote Obama.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Mar 6, 2010, at 7:02 PM

A common failing in the human species is the inability to recognize the good points in both sides of any discussion.

This inability can become transformed into unwillingness if either side perceives the other condescendingly - e.g., as insolent, ignorant, stupid, irrational, or any other related characteristic - and when this occurs the usual outcome is stalemate.

Just look to the east and then ask yourself why you want to exhibit the same characteristics as that crowd in Washington.

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Mar 6, 2010, at 5:57 PM

amen mrxray preach on

and hickorydickorydock you are right they are in love with the democrats or they wouldn't keep spouting this garbage

they think if you can't dazzle them with brilliance then you can baffle us with b...s...!!!

Just think about that when you read their next post

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Mar 6, 2010, at 4:09 PM


You seem confused. You seem to think we on the left like the Democrats. I doubt that is an accurate belief. While many of us are willing to vote for the Democrats as the lessor of 2 evils, that does not mean we like them. In fact to many of us on the left the Democrats and the Republicans seem to be the defacto, Unitary Fascist Party...basically the same general goals and beliefs.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Mar 6, 2010, at 2:21 AM

"Beware the greedy hand of government, thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry." -- Thomas Paine

"The worst forms of tyranny, or certainly the most successful ones, are not those we rail against but those that so insinuate themselves into the imagery of our consciousness, and the fabric of our lives, as not to be perceived as tyranny." -- Michael Parenti

"The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants." - Albert Camus

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Mar 6, 2010, at 1:39 AM

I have been gone a while so I just read these posts from this month.... it is funny to read.

Here is what I get from these posts.... To some people who are blinded by their extreme LEFTIST viewpoint, the Repubs are simply the party of no and it is the Repubs who are the ONLY problem. YET they cannot see the crap in the eye of the leftists, you know such as Rangle and his VERY delayed investigation and how Pelosi tries to claim that SHE is running the most ethical Congress EVER.

Oh.. Corporations are EVIL and BAD and capitalism is bad and evil.... yet every single person has a job provided by some sort of corporation, OR they purchase needs and wants from corporations. Again hypocritical.

OHHHH... you dont want capitalism YET you participate in capitalism every day OR you want the GOVERNMENT to make determinations about what items or services can and cannot be provided and at what quantities because the GOVERNMENT somehow has ESP and can foretell the future and know what the consumer wants. OR you just want the government to tell the consumer what they can buy and in what quantities and at what prices...

I find this message board pretty laughable sometimes.

There was one point made that I agree with... left, right and centrists must come together and gather control over the politicians and the special interest game or our nation will never recover from this recession. It is NOT a problem caused by ONE party or the other, no matter how much Newsacross and OKR and other try to make it appear that way. It is a problem with the apathetic citizenry until there is a crisis.

"The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." - Alexis de Tocqueville

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Mar 6, 2010, at 1:32 AM

What? Who. ROFLMAO. Good one BCat.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Mar 5, 2010, at 9:43 PM

Bcat, "who's on first" does fit!

Slater and OKR:

The comment at the bottom of the article on religion in the blogsphere.

Here's the quote:

"Good summary of the significance of Talk2Action! (5.00 / 2)

The great beauty of separation of church and state is that it allows for people of many different and opposing religious views to peacefully coexist while fully embracing their individual beliefs and practices. The loss of separation threatens to force our diverse religious heritage into coerced and bland homogeneity. It is my hope that progressives will return to a defense of religion through the defense of separation of church and state, as opposed to the compromises which have recently ceded so much ground to those who desire religious uniformity.

As Thomas Jefferson stated,

"Is uniformity attainable? Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth."

by Rachel Tabachnick on Tue Mar 02, 2010 at 09:05:41 PM EST

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Fri, Mar 5, 2010, at 9:18 PM

Slater and OKR,

Sorry busy day. Just logging on. The link that I posted was the same that OKR had. The postscript about Thomas Jefferson appeared at the end of the article. I'll check to see if it is still there. Sometimes you can scroll through and the posting you remember does seem to have "be-peared". (A handy word that covers both disappeared and appeared and reappeared:) Of course, if a comment is posted to an article or blog it doesn't show up on Speak Out. Happy to see Missouri is warming up. You deserve after THIS winter.

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Fri, Mar 5, 2010, at 9:10 PM

Virginia AG orders colleges to stop protecting gays


-- Posted by news across on Fri, Mar 5, 2010, at 7:29 PM

Who's on first???

-- Posted by Bcat on Fri, Mar 5, 2010, at 7:21 PM

OKR, I looked for the link you posted (to the same story I posted) but don't see it. I have an idea the link Upsedaisy posted could be to a different article, but she'll answer that question.

Lately I've been missing some posts, like the link pressman posted with the information about state constitutions containing religious references. His post from a day or two back showed up just a few minutes ago.

That's the potentially hazardous feature of our reliance on electronics to do everything for us.

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Mar 5, 2010, at 12:29 PM

Oh! I am confused. The link that Slater posted is the same that I had posted earlier. When I clicked the link that Upsedaisy posted I got the website with a message "Sorry I can't seem to finf that story." Upsedaisy was that a different story at the same blog?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Mar 5, 2010, at 11:32 AM

Upsedaisy, is this the article on Talk2Action that you posted the link for, the one that OKR couldn't open?


-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Mar 5, 2010, at 10:28 AM


Upsedaisy I can't get there from here. I appreciate your effort, wish I could have read the linked commentary.

BTW I have caught up on all the recent links provided. Thanks to each of you for allowing us the opportunity.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Mar 5, 2010, at 12:04 AM

Interesting link that displays the cynicism, and sophistry of party politics: http://www.aolnews.com/the-point/article...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Mar 4, 2010, at 11:38 PM

Well, with Evan Bayh quitting, maybe Mellencamp is one of those being considered to fill that seat.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Mar 4, 2010, at 9:25 PM


The Little Pink Houses video is fantastic. I am a big Mellencamp fan from way back. I particularly like that song because in it Meloncamp is making some very straight forward criticisms about our culture that begs some important questions.

By the way, he is considering running for the Senate in Indiana and has a considerable following there. My son lives there and he tells me Mellencamp can't lose in his home-state. He is a great progressive with strong small-town, Mid-American values.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 4, 2010, at 8:56 PM


The problem with the economy is that its a capitalist system. Capitalist systems are subject to periodic economic depressions. Its the result of trying to use an economic system that simply only works for the very richest Americans.

Its time to try something new...such as a scientifically planned economy.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Mar 4, 2010, at 8:49 PM

All this money was allocated for specific thing. When its not used that way, how do they expect that to work? When they give Banks or States that kind of Money, it should be used for a specific purpose,not to balance a States Budget! Banks were to lone it to small Business,witch they haven't done. I just heard tonite that Obama has allocated 87 Billion for Collage Educations Grants, and its held up, (buy the Republicans) in a bill some were. So everyone is waiting for something to happen? I did see that some of the Collage Students are taking to the Streets! Now that the way to get these s.o.b's attention. Seems we should go back and continue what we started in the 60's? It would be fun to join in again, if i wasn't so **** old! ha

-- Posted by Jo on Thu, Mar 4, 2010, at 8:48 PM

Incidentally, Hickory, my computer won't play the Mellencamp video without stops and starts, and when I went to see if another version is available, I see that he's being touted for public service.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Mar 4, 2010, at 8:36 PM

Hickory, what an amazing spectacle that glacier presents! I wonder what else we should expect to be revealed as our polar icecaps melt away.

It does seem that local governments have become emboldened to the point of flaunting their perceived inaccessibility in our faces.

I live in San Antonio, TX, and the administration here is made up of a fair number of what I'd call petty criminals - people who take advantage of every opportunity to line their pockets at the taxpayers' expense - as well as a collective intent to gouge the taxpayers for all it can get. The latest is a $4 billion "miscalculation" by our power company as it sold us our investment in an expansion of the South Texas Nuclear Project.

Every governmental entity has gotten on the bandwagon of bilking the taxpayers, it seems. I don't know how we can put a stop to it, short of open rebellion.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Mar 4, 2010, at 8:32 PM

rr3: We are in total agreement that there are serious signs that the worst is yet to come. We differ on whether or not short term stimulus is appropriate. I think it is.

Having said that I believe that much of the stimulus has been misdirected. As in most things, corporatism has reared its ugly head, and influenced government to the detriment of our country.

We have an infrastructure that is falling apart, yet the stimulus funds, and bail out funds have largely been utilized to make sure that the greed masters are shored up. Meanwhile their lust for more, and more is unabated. They are doing the same things as before the crash because they are consumed by greed. It is an abomination. That is a good word that should not be bastardized with take offs such as Obamanation.

It is human nature to seek a narrow target, one upon which we can focus our anger. It would be the same had McCain won, or any other of the major candidates of either party. Ultimately we, the citizens must look to ourselves for allowing it to happen. Just so, we must look to ourselves to undo what we have allowed to happen. Somehow left, right, and center have to reach an accord to save our nation.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Mar 4, 2010, at 6:49 PM

okr sorry for being so harsh but our government thinks that to fix anything you just throw money at and if it doesn't work throw more money at it. Let's come up with solutions that will put people to work and truly stimulate the economy.

If my neighbor was out of work I would do everything that I could to help him/her and their family out and I know millions in this country that would do the same. All this spending is going to roll downhill onto our backs and the snowball is getting pretty big. There is very few people around that remember the great depression I don't but I think times are coming that will make the great depression look like good times. I hope I am wrong but I think we need to prepare for the worst and then we can be relieved when it doesn't get that bad.

We can only hope for the best for our country.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Mar 4, 2010, at 5:22 PM



Sorry, I forgot to include the cited links in regard to my last post.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Mar 4, 2010, at 3:34 PM

rr3: I kinda thought I did get my facts from reliable sources, as well as some I consider not so reliable. In the instant case 'The Christian Science Monitor', respected the world over, and Fox News were two of many. On Fox Senator Bunning said "It was about paying for what we spend". Not about "pork". Why he chose this particular bill to make his point, when there are so many others that he could have used to dramatize his position is at best callous.

Come on, stalling a life line for desperate citizens? You wouldn't have made that choice would have you?

I know it is hard to get righteous about the errors of those with whom we are generally comfortable, with "our" party, even when there actions are dilatory to the well being of the citizenry. We rise to defend, allegiance is a wonderful thing, but it cuts two ways. Unfortunately most of us are now in a situation whether we are loyal to the right, the left, or the center, wherein we justifiably feel betrayed by our congressinal representatives. It is foolish of us to act out, or speak out only against those of opposing position on the political spectrum. They are all, or more correctly most, in it together. That is why somehow we citizens, must find a way to all be in it together. It is our last best hope.

That is why many of my posts are populist, and anticorporatist in theme. I hope that you will join me, and thousands of others in taking those steps necessary to restore our democracy, to return us to a status that at least some of the time most of our representatives listen to the voice of the people.

Have a good day my fellow citizen.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Mar 4, 2010, at 3:18 PM


So what?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Mar 4, 2010, at 10:36 AM

Thanks OKR for the link to the commentary about religion on blogs. http://www.talk2action.org/story/2010/3/. The summary quoting Thomas Jefferson was especially useful.

Headlines on this morning's local paper cause me to correct the posted figure of 400 on newly unemployed thanks to closing of ConAgra plant in Garner NC. It is 450. The production of Slim Jims will shift to another ConAgra facility in Troy Ohio. Lawmakers there approved a measure so CA will not pay property taxes for 15 years. Another twist? Workers at Troy plant, unlike those in NC are not unionized. The company agreed to pay a $106,440 fine as a result of the explosion. The Dept of Labor had found 26 serious health and safety violations.

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Thu, Mar 4, 2010, at 10:20 AM


You may be right but then again can you show me any bill that doesn't have any pork? The man could have made his point on many different bills. The fact that he chose the one that put people out of work and halted unemployment benefits is inexcusable. I'll bet Senator Bunning will have no problem paying his light bill this month.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Mar 4, 2010, at 9:19 AM

okr why didn't you mention all of the pork in the bill was the reason for voting against it not the unemployment benefits. You really need to get your facts from a reliable source.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Mar 4, 2010, at 6:14 AM


Sorry about the dead link.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Mar 4, 2010, at 2:24 AM

You know maybe I was wrong about that unemployment thing. I had not considered the possibility that there are no unemployed.http://satiricalpolitical.com/2010/03/02/gop-kyl-bunning-unemployment/

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Mar 4, 2010, at 2:21 AM


-- Posted by pressman on Thu, Mar 4, 2010, at 1:50 AM

There is the party of No, but within that party there is a hard core group of NO, No,... No!

The following nineteen Republican Senators voted...what else? No, on the vote to extend unemployment benefits. The rest of the Party of No actually voted yes except Kay Bailey Hutchins who would have voted no had she not been so preoccupied. So, half the Senate Republicans can't even break lock step to make that small compassionate gesture.

Alexander (R-TN)

Barrasso (R-WY)

Bennett (R-UT)

Bunning (R-KY)

Burr (R-NC)

Coburn (R-OK)

Corker (R-TN)

Cornyn (R-TX)

Crapo (R-ID)

DeMint (R-SC)

Ensign (R-NV)

Enzi (R-WY)

Gregg (R-NH)

Hatch (R-UT)

Johanns (R-NE)

McConnell (R-KY)

Risch (R-ID)

Sessions (R-AL)

Thune (R-SD)

This one really has me scratching my head. The only thing that I can figure out is that there is some strange physically immobilizing disease that is affecting them. A disease in which their tongues gets stuck to the upper front of their palates. When they try to speak their hung up tongues can only make the N sound. Even when they try they struggle so hard that their jaw muscles are fatigued making it impossible for them to relax enough to make that challenging Y sound.

That is what it has to be. Even Republicans can't be that heartless. I sure hope that they get well soon. If not they should resign, go home, and get well. If the voters are kind they will help that nineteen with No-itus by sending the poor sick Senators home from work for a good long rest, and recuperation.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Mar 4, 2010, at 1:48 AM

Firstly thank you and/or, you're welcome to those who have recently addressed me on the blog. I value your friendship.

Some of you may enjoy this commentary about religion on the blogs. http://www.talk2action.org/story/2010/3/...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Mar 4, 2010, at 1:03 AM

Hi Slater,

I did read the Glasgow history. Thought I had thanked you for sending it along, but couldn't find the posting. Hard to believe that a hundred years ago the only roads were county roads.

Of course, back in the 1800s, roads were private enterprise. Most every county in Northern Ohio bordering Lake Erie has a road, named "Plank"!

The :"February Gold" daffodils finally bloomed--March 2nd. Cold winter. Snow in quantities in some NC counties have school on two hour delays again tomorrow.

Wonder why share holders don't ask company management to distribute "Corporate political contributions" as r.o.i.?

ConAgra is closing their plant in Garner NC. In business, 50 years, the plant was being remodeled last year when it blew up killing four workers and injuring others. Before ConAgra, it was the Jesse Jones Sausage Co. Jesse came up the idea of Slim Jims. The plant was located on Jones Sausage Road--probably slippery slidey red clay--no planks.

Four hundred more added to unemployment ranks. Maybe some will transfer to some of ConAgra's 41 plants.

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Wed, Mar 3, 2010, at 11:06 PM

Thanks for that bit of humorous relief, Upsedaisy. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Mar 3, 2010, at 10:29 PM

With thanks to the Washington Post here perhaps, is a religion for the non-believers amongst us.

"Frisbeetarianism (n.) The belief that, when you die, your Soul flies up onto the roof and gets stuck there."

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Wed, Mar 3, 2010, at 10:07 PM

Wowee! I just finished thrashing through the comments section of KF's column on banning the Bible, and I see that self-righteousness is alive and well in parts of Saline County!

Not that anyone cares, but it's always been my opinion that people who loudly broadcast their pious indignation do so because of their own subconscious self-doubt.

"Gloating" would be one method. I could give it a different label, but I promised to try and be nice. :)

I concur with Miss Marple's point that it's unChristian-like to go around saying one demonination is better than another.

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Mar 3, 2010, at 7:25 PM

I don't recall a time in the last 50 years or so when it was necessary or even desirable to "gloat" about your religious preference. Or maybe we have different definitions of "gloat," Hickory.

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Wed, Mar 3, 2010, at 4:04 PM

Here ya go, America!


-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Mar 3, 2010, at 10:39 AM

Here ya go, News:


-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Mar 3, 2010, at 9:59 AM

okr you are probably right WHY BOTHER?

I will pray for you and news.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Mar 3, 2010, at 4:53 AM


Yeah that's good for John Adams.

I am an American and I am Australian. I do have a Sovereign, Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II.

I am proud of both my Nations and of my Queen.

God Save the Queen!!

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Mar 3, 2010, at 1:10 AM

rr3 we could go all night, back, and forth with the founding father quotes. Still we would not arrive at a certainty. So why bother. For instance here is Ben Franklin, "As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of Morals and his Religion, as he left them to us, the best the World ever saw or is likely to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupt changes, and I have, with most of the present Dissenters in England, some doubts as to his divinity; though it is a question I do not dogmatize upon"--yes you could cite say Washington or Jefferson, but then they could be cited with the adverse argument as well. Why bother?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Mar 3, 2010, at 12:09 AM

Glad for you news

We Recognize No Sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus. - John Adams [April 18, 1775]

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Mar 2, 2010, at 10:49 PM


Well I see you didn't read the article.

Anyway...yeah it all looks a bit different from offshore...that is for sure.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Mar 2, 2010, at 10:28 PM

We're all glad for you, News Across. You can practice your "least religion" to your heart's content over there. By the way, that's allowed over here as well. If you keep your curtains closed on Sunday mornings, that big bad Christian "minority" may not even notice.

-- Posted by Bcat on Tue, Mar 2, 2010, at 9:47 PM

Thanks for the links OKR.

I have been aware for sometime of the war on our society by the ultra-right wing, evangelical Christian minority and it makes me glad I am in Australia -- the least religious Nation on Earth.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Mar 2, 2010, at 7:54 PM

I participated and it was a lot of fun! Congrats to Comfort Inn Team for taking first place.

-- Posted by lovingmarshall on Tue, Mar 2, 2010, at 2:43 PM

What no Adult Spelling Bee update?

-- Posted by livinglarge on Tue, Mar 2, 2010, at 2:10 PM

This is a heads up to any of you who are utilizing Windows XP. Do not use your F1 key.


-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Mar 2, 2010, at 2:08 PM

The following link is a thought provoking commentary as to how the far right is congealing, and why. I think that the article will be appreciated by most thinking Americans left, right, or center. http://www.cognitivepolicyworks.com/2010...

By the way has any one been over to Norborne recently? Are there any embers of the fire built by the Minute Men still glowing in that neck of the woods? Last I heard the community was pretty much asleep, and had forgotten all about it as has the rest of the nation.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Mar 2, 2010, at 12:33 AM

I am seeing more, and more activity that indicates the radical right has reached an extremist position that is the equivalent of the radical left in the 1960s. Here is one of many scary reports that are out there. http://www.alternet.org/news/145796/head...

What is more troubling is that I am not seeing a mainstream Republican disavowal of the radicalism that would be the equivalent of mainstream Democratic repudiation in the 1960s.

More commentary on the subject by Frank Rich: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/28/opinio...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Mar 1, 2010, at 11:59 PM

We'll all sleep better knowing that such fine upstanding employees of ACORN have been cleared. It took a Brooklyn prosecutor a whole five months to determine this? What took him so long?

-- Posted by Bcat on Mon, Mar 1, 2010, at 7:06 PM

3 ACORN workers cleared of wrongdoing:

Community organizing group was under fire after release of video


-- Posted by news across on Mon, Mar 1, 2010, at 6:21 PM

AP: Republicans set record for use of filibuster


The Party of No! has got to Go!

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Mar 1, 2010, at 5:45 PM


That would be an interesting topic for the MD to investigate.

There is so much criminal recidivism and all in the Country with the highest percentage of its population in prison.

Perhaps the MD could do a piece on the positive correlation between President Reagan's policies of shifting away from prisoner reform programs...such as continuing education, teaching the convicts a trade, and psychological treatement... and instead focusing on long incarcerations with the emphasis on punishment and the dramatic rise in repeat offenders since those policies were implemented at the State level.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Mar 1, 2010, at 5:14 PM


I concur! I have never, in my yrs of being a Marshall resident, picked up and opened one of the little newspapers that constantly litter my driveway/yard. How is it that they have the right to throw their "garbage" into my yard, but if I kick it out of my yard onto the street, I could be fined for littering?

I have even contacted the Messenger office and was told that they cannot put me on a "no throw" list...maybe I should put a big sign in my yard asking them to keep their paper out of my yard.

-- Posted by ALM on Mon, Mar 1, 2010, at 4:06 PM

Did you know that much paper is wasted by newspapers which are thrown in driveways, on sidewalks, and in the yards of people who don't want them and don't pick them. We have No Call Lists to stop nuisance callers but we have no power to stop the constant trashing of our property.

-- Posted by Pasta on Mon, Mar 1, 2010, at 1:52 PM

Welcome to March Speak Out. Let's hope the conversation takes place under sunnier skies and warmer days!

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Mon, Mar 1, 2010, at 8:21 AM

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