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Tuesday, Sep. 23, 2014

Speak Out February 2 to March 1, 2010

Tuesday, February 2, 2010

The Marshall Democrat-News welcomes views or questions on any issue. We hope you'll express yourself freely and responsibly. We reserve the right to exclude entries that we deem disrespectful, threatening, obscene or in other ways objectionable.

Past Speak Out conversations


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I can't speak to the fact of whether Jesus was a liberal or conserverative or to wheter or not this is to be considered based on our current definition of either. I will say that organized religion, any and all of them are a business. Nothing more, nothing less.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Mar 1, 2010, at 5:52 AM

mrxray

Hey I have no argument with Jesus.

I am just saying he regularly broke Jewish Religious laws of the time. That sort of thing was really frowned upon by the mainstream Jewish establishment and most folks regarded such acts as bordering on blasphemy.

As to his politics, I think he would definitely support socialized medicine and that he would be a major spokesman for the poor and downtrodden. I believe his heart would be with the victims of the capitalists.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Mar 1, 2010, at 5:49 AM

"The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money."

-- Alexis de Tocqueville

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Mar 1, 2010, at 4:58 AM

If memory serves, Jesus overturned the tables in the temple out of righteous anger at the distortion and opression of the poor by selling the sacrificial animals at a profit and the house of the Lord was not to be used for financial gain of the individual money changers.

It had nothing to do with IF the money changers were supposed to be there or not, but all to do with the corruption of taking from the poor to pad their own pockets by charging higher than necessary prices when in fact the endeavor was to allow ALL people to worship and offer sacrifices regardless of how rich or poor they were....

STILL interested in hearing how you try to claim that Jesus was liberal or conservative... lol

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Mar 1, 2010, at 4:58 AM

OKR... get a grip. Making gun ownership EVEN more restrictive will never make guns less available. If a crazy person wants to take out a bunch of people he or she does NOT need a gun. They can just make some sort of bomb or posion the water supply or whatever other demented means they come up with. The fallacy of this type of argument comes when you try to say that you can legislate common sense or that some how a law will stop people from killing each other.

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Mar 1, 2010, at 4:49 AM

Newsacross.... that was a pretty pathetic attempt to disparage right wingers as some how being militant and all of them members of some militia and therefore right wingers are dangerous... sounds like you have been reading and absorbing the Pelosi propaganda rather well.

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Mar 1, 2010, at 4:45 AM

Watching the closing ceremonies of the Olympics: Was anyone else reminded of "The Prisoner" when the promotion piece for the 2014 winter Olympics in Russia had people in bubbles? "The Prisoner" would always be recaptured by a bubble, when he attempted an escape.

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Sun, Feb 28, 2010, at 10:31 PM

rr3yv0

Also...the money changers were in the Temple because Jewish law...again rooted in the Old Testament...required that only Jewish currency could be used for offerings. The money changers were required to be there.

Oh and rr3yv0, Leviticus says God requires that anyone who does not participate in the stoning of anyone guilty of adultery, blasphemy, or worshiping another Hebrew God, Molech, are themselves to be stoned to death. Refusing to participate in the stoning was not an option. The entire village and all its able bodied people were required by law to attend and participate in the stoning. Those are the rules as set forth by God...according to Leviticus. Did Jesus Participate in the stoning? No he didn't. That made him guilty of a grievous crime in the eyes of the average Jewish folks.

By the way, have you stoned any sinners lately?

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Feb 28, 2010, at 8:26 PM

rr3yv0

Do you believe in Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny too?

If not, why don't you believe that?

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Feb 28, 2010, at 8:14 PM

notgvnasht

Why do you believe that?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Feb 28, 2010, at 4:46 PM

news

http://www.carm.org/bible-difficulties/l...

The moneychangers were in violation of God's law because they were using the house of God for their own personal gain. God is angry when we sin and demonstrated this through Jesus.

I am not sure if you are speaking about the people wanting to stone Jesus or the woman who committed adultery. To reference the woman that committed adultery Jesus asked those without sin to cast the first stone and they all departed leaving only Jesus and the woman. Since no one was there to condemn her then Jesus said he would not condemn her either and to go forth and sin no more.

Jesus statement did not stop them from stoning her it was their own sin that convicted them that they were just as guilty as the woman.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Feb 28, 2010, at 10:56 AM

White Tornado, Jo is right. It has been a long time since you posted.

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Sun, Feb 28, 2010, at 9:38 AM

Jo

Excellent point!!

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Feb 28, 2010, at 2:07 AM

rr3yv0

The Bible is also a historical document and it details a lot about the life of Jesus during his 3 year ministry. We can also read the Book of Leviticus and he is very clear about the laws of God...which Jesus regularly violated from overturning the tables of the money-changers to the stopping of a stoning...which is a crime also punishable by stoning under Leviticus and the prevailing law of that time. Jesus was a real mustang and he sure didn't mind ruffling a few establishment religious feathers. Frankly, you say he came to fulfill the law but it sure looks...based upon what the Bible claims was his factual behavior, that he was here to break the rules...'cause that sure is what he did.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Feb 28, 2010, at 2:06 AM

I made a big part of my living carrying a Gun, and still do! I have nothing against Gun's, but i do have a problem with the people who steals Guns, and uses them on innocent people! White Tornado: Hope everything's ok with you, my friend!

-- Posted by Jo on Sun, Feb 28, 2010, at 1:31 AM

news

NEWS QUOTE:Judging by what the Bible says, the mainstream, average Jew of that time would have likely regarded Jesus as blasphemous and Anti-Jewish Religious Law.

If you believe the bible you don't judge it. It is a literal document that has only one interpretation but can have several applications. I may conclude that it has to be taken in context we can't pluck a scripture or quote out of the bible and say it means something that it doesn't.

NEWS QUOTE:here is no question that he regularly violated God's Laws for the Jews as given by God to the Prophet Leviticus. Jesus turning the tables in the Temple, and his failure to follow or observe many of the Jewish religious Holidays, were all reasons to stone him to death under their law.

Jesus did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it.

http://www.carm.org/bible-difficulties/m...

As for the prophet Leviticus please share because I have overlooked or missed any information on him.

NEWS QUOTE:In fact, I believe if the mainstream Christian establishment had Jesus walking around contradicting them, braking the rules of the faith, and accusing the Christian establishment of heresy...as he did the Jewish establishment of his day...he probably would juat happen to be shot by some "loan" assassin...by coincidence.

You may be right about that.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sun, Feb 28, 2010, at 1:25 AM

Back in the day we used to keep shotguns, and rifles in the car trunks in the school parking lot. Not so many drove pickups back then. We would hunt before, and after school. I don't recall anyone ever having a pistol in their car. We also carried pocket knives, many of which would be considered lethal weapons today. There was never a problem to my knowlege.

Times have changed as has available weaponry. Not wanting to be cynical, but unable to help it I suspect that Glocks, and AK-47s might be the weapons of choice today, even in rural America.

Times change, and with that a pragmatic response demands change that assures that our youth don't kill each other.

Yet it saddens me that the youth of today don't have the same freedoms we enjoyed.

It makes me think that if only the same weapons were available today, that were practically attainable by us, such sport could still be enjoyed on school days. It was great fun to go duck hunt on the river at the crack of dawn.

Thank you arms industry for shutting down the fun. Sure a kid can get his hands on a Glock, but what practical use is it? That possibility has curtailed the relatively innocent sporting of a lot of kids. Bet you can't even have a tackle box in your trunk with a filet knife present.

Would that be true if there was not a proliferation of available fire arms with the primary purpose of manufacture being to kill people?

So, we scream for liberty, for the right to bear arms of our choice not realizing that to do so we must give up other liberties. There are no free lunches. It seems paradoxically ironic to me.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Feb 28, 2010, at 12:56 AM

NA,

No disagreement w/your views. X-Ray asked why I had posted the article. It was prompted by the debate over Jesus. The comment at the end was by someone else and I put it in quotes to indicate that.

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Sat, Feb 27, 2010, at 8:42 PM

upsedaisy

My comment regarding the on "loan" gunman was a pun and I meant it. I don't believe high profile killings such as JFK or Dr, King are killed by lone assassins...I don't buy that at all. I don't think these are coincidences. Some very rich and powerful person or persons are behind such things.

Also my reference was IF JESUS WAS HERE NOW...not 2000 or 4000 or 8000 years ago but rather today. The Christian Leadership would hate him as much as the Jewish Religious establishment did and I think they would, like the Jewish Priesthood, rid themselves of that trouble maker fast...just like the rich and powerful did with John, Bobby, and Martin.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Feb 27, 2010, at 8:31 PM

I posted the article about the minister and his gun store, since there has been a discussion on whether Jesus was liberal or conservative. NA had this morning commented that Jesus flouted Judaic rules and might have been "shot" by a "loan" assassin.

Of course, guns hadn't been invented 2010 years ago. The quotes on "loan" are NA's. Perhaps referencing the frequency w/which guns are purchased at pawnshops.

The comment at the end was not mine, but by a poster. I thought it was food for thought.

I own a gun. I allow bow hunting on my acreage, which is inside town limits, so guns are prohibited.

We need more careful screening and waiting periods. Thirtytwo students killed at VA Tech, the murders at Ft. Hood, Columbine, all by unhinged individuals.

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Sat, Feb 27, 2010, at 8:19 PM

mrxray

I like firearms just fine myself. I thinking they are great for hunting and target practice.

However, there are some crazy right-wing wackos out there trying to emulate the military...and doing a pathetically poor job of it...who think somehow they might be able to successfully overthrow our Government with their pee shooters.

I always get a chuckle out of that.

There are few things more pathetic than a bunch of fat, aging babyboomers trying to convince themselves they are as good as an American Military Unit.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Feb 27, 2010, at 6:23 PM

upsedaisy.... Not sure of the purpose of your posting of that story about the preacher/gun store owner or the comment you made at the end.

Why is it that YOU make the assumption that this preacher/gun store owner is going to shoot somebody or something? OR are you suggesting that guns are bad somehow and should be banned? lol

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Feb 27, 2010, at 5:35 PM

I liked SNAP. Mostly because I keep some wierd hours, and the 24-hour part was awesome. I liked having the place to my self. I didn't have to share the tv's or the radio! Only reason I dropped my membership was that I got out of the habit of going.

-- Posted by thebirdman on Sat, Feb 27, 2010, at 11:38 AM

Jesus had/has powers that us mere mortals don't have. He could/does accomplish things that we can't. So, I doubt that Jesus would shoot anything or anybody. But, I don't know.....

Have a great day!

The sun is shining!!!

M

-- Posted by missy08 on Sat, Feb 27, 2010, at 10:34 AM

In Smithfield, NC an evangelist and pastor has opened a gun shop. His wife dreamt that God told her to name it after the Second Amendment - the constitutional right to bear arms - but to call it the Second Amen-ment Gun Shop.

When her husband is not preaching, he can be found at the shooting range with his son, Blake, who manages the new store.

He was quoted as saying, "A lot of people make fun of me - a Bible in one hand, a .44 in the other," Eddie Jordan said. "I sort of turned a hobby into a business."

"One comment: 'What or who would Jesus shoot?'"

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Sat, Feb 27, 2010, at 9:27 AM

Any opinions on SNAP?? Trying to decide on there or the Y. But I've heard weird things about SNAP...

Just curious

-- Posted by valleygirl01 on Sat, Feb 27, 2010, at 5:59 AM

Xray,

Judging by what the Bible says, the mainstream, average Jew of that time would have likely regarded Jesus as blasphemous and Anti-Jewish Religious Law. There is no question that he regularly violated God's Laws for the Jews as given by God to the Prophet Leviticus. Jesus turning the tables in the Temple, and his failure to follow or observe many of the Jewish religious Holidays, were all reasons to stone him to death under their law. In fact, I believe if the mainstream Christian establishment had Jesus walking around contradicting them, braking the rules of the faith, and accusing the Christian establishment of heresy...as he did the Jewish establishment of his day...he probably would juat happen to be shot by some "loan" assassin...by coincidence.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Feb 27, 2010, at 5:29 AM

I would be interested in seeing what you all write about Jesus being liberal or conservative... would make for an interesting conversatino to watch.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Feb 27, 2010, at 2:17 AM

sorry I was slow to this part of the thread....

If a Taliban militant/terrorist is captured and is to be granted protection under a UN treaty, does this not imply that the taliban militant/terrorist would have to be a representative or solider of some specific nation?

If this is true, then someone would have to use some inventive mechanisms of logic to argue that the taliban are fighting for a specific government or nation, especially since they are NOT representing Pakistan or Afghanistan.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Feb 27, 2010, at 2:05 AM

Here is a link that is likely to be enjoyed by those that are not concerned about staying up late, nor getting to church on Sunday morning.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/201...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Feb 27, 2010, at 2:02 AM

NanaDot: to your robber baron comment....

So, if as you try to claim capitalism is bad and evile, you seem to willingly ignore the SOCIALIST policy of the LIBERAL LEFT that tried to force the idea that ALL people have the right to home ownership led to the destruction of our economy by the mechanism of the DEMOCRAT policy initiated by Carter and pushed hard by Clinton and updated by leading Democrats. Local banks were coerced and boycotted and harassed by ACORN and the like all in the name of forcing the banks to make risky loans to people who could not afford a traditional home loan so ARMS and other harmful loans were 'made up' and provided to the people who could not nor should not own their own home. THEN when the Repubs and other economists warned of the dire economic risk that would involve our entire economy those same Dems called them fear mongerers.... I agree that unfettered capitalism is harmful, but no more harmful than the liberal agenda and a big government that takes away freedoms and liberties.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Feb 27, 2010, at 1:36 AM

Jo, I like your suggestion about bringing back dueling.

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Feb 26, 2010, at 9:54 PM

rr3, interesting and thought-provoking link. Thanks for posting it.

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Feb 26, 2010, at 9:50 PM

okr I was referring to the word liberal as lenient. Lenient spending policies has got us into this mess.

But while researching liberal vs. conservative I came across this site that ranks the Senate and the House members as to how they vote. Just interesting not gospel.

http://hotlineoncall.nationaljournal.com...

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Feb 26, 2010, at 8:53 PM

Howdy Jo, howdy Slater. I'm wore slick. See y'all later.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Feb 25, 2010, at 11:51 PM

"okr I will try to keep this simple I never mentioned any liberal republican you did and you asking if Jesus was a liberal came out of left field. You did not state why you feel like he is a liberal so I don't know how to answer your question. Be specific and I will be also. Thank you." Thank you rr3 for continuing the conversation.

Your words that stimulated my primary question were: "I stated liberal policies have gotten us into this mess I didn't attach that comment to a particular party because they have come from both sides of the aisle." So you did state that liberal policies have come from both sides of the aisle. Using the "if it walks like a duck" line of reasoning those on the other side of the aisle would also be liberals. My question remains. Who?

Now I know that some conservatives love to throw out the word liberal as an invective, when another word not tied to a particular political persuasion would have better suited. I didn't think you were that way, that you were more into economic debate than labeling. Hence my question remains.

If you were really saying that both Republicans, and Democrats have been spendthrifts, both liberals, and conservatives have bankrupted our nation that is all well, and good. Still, if that is the case I don't know why you tossed in the word liberal. That confuses the issue. See what I mean?

This is getting too long, and it is late. I will address the "Jesus" part another time.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Feb 25, 2010, at 11:36 PM

Yes Slater , Political Etiquette makes you a you little sick after a while! You know, i think they should go back to Duelling. It would stop a lot of this Lying. People are wondering why our Kid's are cheaters,liar,s ,thieves,rebelious. Maybe they could look at our Leader's in Washington, that could be part of it! the more i read about our Political System the more i want to join News Across in Australia! ha

-- Posted by Jo on Thu, Feb 25, 2010, at 11:27 PM

Yep. Joseph Cotton, Orson Welles, and other notables.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Feb 25, 2010, at 10:47 PM

Ah yes. Third Man theme. Joseph Cotton starred?

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Thu, Feb 25, 2010, at 10:31 PM

The finch video - I needed to be more descriptive and say the finches make their music by "playing" electric guitars.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Feb 25, 2010, at 10:28 PM

Tonight I was sifting through a few videos on the weird universe site and decided to post these two "music" videos which I think are a little unusual:

Video.avi - This one is performed by a group of finches:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/y33gqt

video-1.avi - This one features a jam session using the Theremin, the instrument that made all those eerie sounds in the old science fiction and horror movies:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/asix6y

I converted the originals to avi format and uploaded them to a web hosting service, so, if you want to be entertained by them, these links will take you directly to the download page. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Feb 25, 2010, at 10:23 PM

Recommended reading: This week's New Yorker has a long profile of Paul Krugman. Available on line as well.

From today's New York Times, an article talks about Goldman-Sachs efforts to prop up Greece. "Greece has suffered from large deficits for years, and until now it seemed as if big banks would always be there to bail it out. As far back as 2000 and 2001, Goldman helped Athens quietly borrow billions to mask its poor finances by creating derivatives that essentially transformed loans into currency trades that Greece did not have to disclose under European rules."

Has anyone read Paulsen's book?

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Thu, Feb 25, 2010, at 8:55 PM

okr I will try to keep this simple I never mentioned any liberal republican you did and you asking if Jesus was a liberal came out of left field. You did not state why you feel like he is a liberal so I don't know how to answer your question. Be specific and I will be also. Thank you.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Feb 25, 2010, at 5:25 PM

I agree, Missy. The rules of exchange needed to be better defined. Yes, it's sad about the plight of many people, but if the content is only testimonial in nature, that doesn't do much for solving the problems.

I'm for taking that moronic "political etiquette" book and tossing it in the stove.

All the more reason for rebellion.

Right Jo?

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Feb 25, 2010, at 4:41 PM

Slater,

I didn't watch the video, but was trying to watch the discussion. It seemed like the Democrats were citing example after example of hardluck stories. I am not trying to make light of them. I know there are sad situations out there. But, that doesn't "fix" the problem. Let's get on with the solution. When the Republicans would talk, they were told to limit their comments.

So frustrating!

M

-- Posted by missy08 on Thu, Feb 25, 2010, at 4:25 PM

OK Reader, I see that I sent something of a mixed message.

In my heart of hearts, I know the message that Jesus brings (and is/was brought by many others both before and after him) is a very simple one. It's so simple, in fact, that it gets lost in the all the rhetoric and all the artificial rules humans can't help imposing.

It doesn't get any simpler than "Love thy neighbor as thyself." Keep that in the forefront and everything else gets pretty simple, too, doesn't it?

Making war on your neighbor isn't loving him. Stealing from your neighbor isn't loving him. Cruelty in any form to your neighbor isn't loving him. Taking his food, his oil, his anything, especially by cheating him, isn't loving him.

I could go on but it gets kinda boring. It's the KISS principle in action. "Keep It Simple, Stupid."

Love thy neighbor as thyself.

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Thu, Feb 25, 2010, at 3:42 PM

Missy, the video snip epitomizes a major problem with our government, in my opinion. I wonder how many of the 55 minutes were wasted, like this example shows.

One party blabbing while the other pouts.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Feb 25, 2010, at 3:18 PM

I KNEW I wasn't crazy... I am trying to watch this but the endless examples of heartache are not solving the problems.....

http://www.politico.com/livepulse/0210/R...

M

-- Posted by missy08 on Thu, Feb 25, 2010, at 1:44 PM

Thank you MissMarple for engaging in the discussion. I think that the central message of Jesus, the universal one, love each other, give of yourself to others as you recognize their needs, is so strong that it is appropriated by all manner of religions, political systems, and philosophies.

Whether that is bogus, or not is another question. Following your line of thinking one might ask the question whether, or not the Jesus message is bogus since that message was a tenant of other's message before Jesus.

Could it be an a priori message? One that springs from human instinctual altruism, an early survival mechanism?

My apology to you for being question rich, and answer poor. Cain't hep it. Watcha think?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Feb 25, 2010, at 11:52 AM

I suppose I confused you rr3. You answered a question I did not ask, and failed to answer the two I did ask. Would you like to try again?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Feb 25, 2010, at 11:17 AM

Jesus a liberal? Why not? Google "Was Jesus a communist?" and you'll find a wealth of utterly bogus information about Jesus as a liberal, a socialist, a communist, a Muslim...you name it, someone's asserted it.

We know only one thing for certain about Jesus - he was a Jew. Everything else is just speculation.

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Thu, Feb 25, 2010, at 7:39 AM

You think Jesus was a liberal? Really

That was pulled out of thin air.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Feb 25, 2010, at 6:52 AM

The link in the comment below this one takes you to page two of the "Wall Street Journal" "Market Watch" article. This link takes you to page one which is more convenient though I doubt that anyone with the smarts to desire to read it would have any trouble establishing that there was a preceding page. ;) http://www.marketwatch.com/story/death-o...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Feb 25, 2010, at 1:57 AM

Finally (TG you say)...read what Warren Buffet's partner has to say about where we are going. This one will, or should scare the Bejeesus out of you. http://www.marketwatch.com/story/death-o...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Feb 25, 2010, at 1:38 AM

Senators Dodd, and Udall have introduced legislation leading to a constitutional amendment to overturn the Supreme Court decision allowing our elections to be controlled by unfettered corporate money.

My first question to any candidate for the United States Senate would be whether, or not that candidate supports such a constitutional amendment. If not that candidate is a corporatist, and not deserving of the vote of a human whether Republican, Democrat, or otherwise.

http://newmexicoindependent.com/48542/ud...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Feb 25, 2010, at 1:07 AM

From Jim Hightower's column: Since the thirteenth amendment bans slavery, which is the ownership of a person, the newly born corporate "persons" can not legally be bought, and sold. Thus Wall Street--now a slave market must be shut down! Let us all join hands and march for this new civil rights cause, chanting, "Free the Corporate Slaves". http://www.creators.com/opinion/jim-high...

Yes it is a stretch, but no more preposterous than the act of the five "Justices" who committed the treasonous act that evoked the comment.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Feb 25, 2010, at 12:54 AM

Alright rr3 I'll bite who are those liberal Republicans? I thought that any that could even remotely claim that title were long dead.

Another question for you: based strictly on his words as recorded in the Bible was Jesus a liberal? If not, which of his words dissuade you of that notion?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Feb 25, 2010, at 12:05 AM

I stated liberal policies have gotten us into this mess I didn't attach that comment to a particular party because they have come from both sides of the aisle. It boils down to out of control spending.

It will be hard to starve the pig when we have so many feeding at the trough. We need to make the trough smaller.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Feb 24, 2010, at 9:22 PM

The Lighthouse feller looks as if he hasn't had a decent meal for sometime. He won my heart. Adopting another would be difficult, since I have an alpha dog, inherited when grandson #4 left for college.

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Wed, Feb 24, 2010, at 7:34 PM

I said this:

"...the federal bedget department's..."

Is a "bedget" a kind of widget, or could it be a type of badge?

Humphrey Bogart: "Show me your badge."

Alfonso Bedoya: "I don't got no badge. We don't got no badges! WE DON'T NEED NO STINKIN' BADGES!!"

Proofreading is not my strong suit, obviously (nor is comedy, you would add). :)

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Feb 24, 2010, at 2:55 PM

Could someone please tell me when the Democrat News is ever going to put in the paper the pictures and story from the Blue and Gold banquet for the Boy Scouts that was on Feb.15th. This is scouting's 100th year and it would really be great to see those pics in there--not just the ones submitted by other people that ran in the Feb3rd paper. Scouting is such a great thing for boys now days. Let's reconize the great achivements of our boys.

-- Posted by old&cranky on Wed, Feb 24, 2010, at 1:27 PM

rr3,

A few months back I posted a link to the federal bedget department's archive of deficit spending since 1948. If you care to have a look you'll see that during every Republican presidency deficit spending increased, and during every Democratic presidency (except for LBJ maintaining the Vietnam conflict) the deficit was reduced, substantially in most cases.

It puzzles me how the GOP can claim to be the "party of fiscal responsibility" when historically it's spent more than the Democrats, culminating in the record spending during the Bush Jr. reign.

My brother voted for "Dubya" in 2000, and I told him at that time - based on Bush's fiscal irresponsibility while governor of Texas - that the country would be fortunate if it survived his lack of money management skill. When he became governor of TX there was a $400 million surplus in the state treasury, and when he moved to Washington, he left behind an $8 BILLION deficit.

So much for GOP fiscal responsibility.

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Feb 24, 2010, at 10:32 AM

HDD,

Funny you should mention Darwin. An article in Wall Street Journal 2/23/10 titled "Obesity? Big Feet? Blame Darwin." is informative. (Personal Journal section front page)

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Wed, Feb 24, 2010, at 10:07 AM

Is the dog in the ad for Lighthouse Shelter available for adoption?

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Wed, Feb 24, 2010, at 9:58 AM
Response by Jessica Wise:
Isn't he cute? Unfortunately, it's a stock photo.

We don't need a public option and this whole health care bill is not about better health care it is about control. It tells we the people are too stupid to make decisions for ourselves but those in the government are smart so they need to make decisions for us. Health care may need reform but this is not the one we need nor can we afford it.

Liberal policies for the last 40 years have brought us to the financial mess we are in now.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Feb 24, 2010, at 6:10 AM

White House slammed after declaring 'not enough support' for public option

http://rawstory.com/2010/02/white-house-...

Uh...yeah...Mr President...you remember us? The left? You know...your base?

We don't just want a public option...We need the public option.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Feb 24, 2010, at 1:06 AM

No trip, eh? :( Shame on that '69 class for wrecking your fun!

Yep, I noticed a pretty big attitude shift from my high school days to my college days which began after a hitch in the Army. By the '70s it seemed as if the piqued senses of the '60s had given in to the traditional view of what constituted a more responsible adulthood. At least that's the way it was for me and many of my friends.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Feb 23, 2010, at 10:23 PM

My class didn't get a senior trip, a few years before ours, class of '69' didn't behave very well...so class trips were out of the question for quite a few years. Oh boy...the 60s & 70's. Was wild, was it not?

-- Posted by nouveaublogger on Tue, Feb 23, 2010, at 8:37 PM

LOL, Saline City, huh? My daughter asked me if I would send her to Paris for a graduation present...I told her sure, then I gave her some gas money and showed her the road map to Paris, MO. :P. I got one of those Ah, Moooooommmmmm's, my kids are so famous for!

-- Posted by nouveaublogger on Tue, Feb 23, 2010, at 8:34 PM

Don't recognize that name, NB, but I most likely would know her family.

My class trip was to Washington, DC, and was it ever fun! The class behind mine was squabbling about where to go (they were arguing about Colorado vs New Orleans). Then-principal George Kendrick (little Hitler) told them, "The way I see it, you have three choices. You can go to Colorado, you can go to New Orleans, or you can go to Saline City." He always thought he was a comedian.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Feb 23, 2010, at 7:58 PM

Slater,

Don't know her maiden name, married name is Jacobsen.

-- Posted by nouveaublogger on Tue, Feb 23, 2010, at 7:39 PM

NB - sounds as if their superintendent will have things under control, being from this area. However, I expect that (s)he'll see a few things new.

Speaking of the Institute of Texan Cultures, I believe it currently has on loan from the Smithsonian Institution an exhibition of Mexican art. If you ever come to San Antonio, I'd hope you'd be able to have a look in there.

As to the teacher knowing me, she'd have to be nearly the age of dirt. (heh heh) Well, as you know, it's a small town and anything's possible. What's her last name?

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Feb 23, 2010, at 7:11 PM

Slater,

p.s.....teach said she has lived her entire life in Slater, maybe she knows you.

-- Posted by nouveaublogger on Tue, Feb 23, 2010, at 6:53 PM

Slater,

They checked the schedules for both parks, I think they are coming around the 24th. Anyway, teach said they were closed during their trip. Will pass along the info about Institute of Texan Cultures, that sounds interesting! They might already have a list of suggestions, as she told me the Superintedent is from that area. He told them about the beach. Maybe he's coming with them.....you should drop by the Inn and say hello!

-- Posted by nouveaublogger on Tue, Feb 23, 2010, at 6:51 PM

Xray,

I don't mind corporations at all. As I said they utilize synergy and that can be very productive.

I just think those corporations belong equally to the People who work for them and all the People...rather than most of the ownership and operation of the corporation --as well as the wealth it generates -- belonging to just 1% of our population.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Feb 23, 2010, at 6:41 PM

NB - I got a good laugh from your comment about the teacher's reaction to asking to see the Alamo basement. :)

Tell the kids the parks (Sea World & Fiesta Texas) are open from 3/12 through 3/21, beginning at 10am and closing as late as 10pm. This schedule generally coincides with spring break in this area.

While they're hanging around the Riverwalk and looking for something worthwhile to do, suggest that they walk down the street to the Institute of Texan Cultures.

Thanks for the updates!

Can't offer any tips on the hotel accommodations but will snoop and see what I can learn for them.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Feb 23, 2010, at 6:35 PM

K2 must be perfectly safe. This is posted on a mail-order site --

"K2****** products are novelty herbal blends and are not for consumption. K2****** and its affiliates are not responsible in any way for misuse of the products and we take no responsibility for damage or bodily harm that might occur from consumption."

Hmmmm.

M

-- Posted by missy08 on Tue, Feb 23, 2010, at 1:27 PM

Cheetah,

They can also buy:

Rubber Cement,

Spray Paint,

Paint Thinner

Model Glue, etc, etc, etc.

This is just another example of government hysteria. Not to mention maybe a new law that can potentially generate revenue. Just look @ Sedalia,

How many of you even heard of this stuff before they made a huge deal out of this and blew it way out of proportion. Show of hands. Anyone? Hello?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Feb 23, 2010, at 12:51 PM

MrXray said this:

"Slater: Greed.... governments should NOT be the entity that attempts to legislate anti-greed rules. It should be society and which is made up of individuals. UNTIL the individuals as a group decide ON THEIR OWN, to willingly put other people and their feelings on the same level as their own personal feelings, then NOTHING will be solved..."

ME: MrXray, your thinking is on the same path that Karl Marx was on as he sought his "Utopia." Ideally, if people could pursue the common good in unison, we'd be better off as a nation, but we're well aware of the contrasts between humans, and for that reason we'll always have a need for government regulation in some form. This is the very reason why Marx was deluding himself, but he shouldn't be faulted for his idealism.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Feb 23, 2010, at 9:46 AM

Newsacross.... It does not matter if the small businesses are the backbone of this nation. BIG corporations do provide millions of jobs. BUT you leftists so quickly forget that GE is one of the biggest corporations BUT since they own major leftist media outlets they do not fall into the same class as the big oil or big insurance companies..... (AGAIN rolling eyes)

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Feb 23, 2010, at 12:52 AM

Newsacross.... again, I say this... lets just shut down EVERY corporation and big business.... just shut them down. Because as you liberals keep saying they are just plain evil and serve NO purpose.. Shut them all down. Who needs a person with the wealth to provide start up money for a small business. Who needs a big corporation who provides jobs. THEY ARE ALL EVIL... (rolls eyes)

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Feb 23, 2010, at 12:50 AM

Slater: Greed.... governments should NOT be the entity that attempts to legislate anti-greed rules. It should be society and which is made up of individuals. UNTIL the individuals as a group decide ON THEIR OWN, to willingly put other people and their feelings on the same level as their own personal feelings, then NOTHING will be solved. No economic set up or governmental rules can EVER legislate this. UNTIL the people realize their power that they have over the government AND their power as consumers to check the corporations, then nothing will change.

Socialist policies will NEVER change what is happening in our nation.

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Feb 23, 2010, at 12:48 AM

Mr. Crump,

How about a new poll question? Thanks!

-- Posted by nouveaublogger on Mon, Feb 22, 2010, at 11:16 PM

Slater,

Well the kids are not going to the beach, seems they already got the scoop about the jellyfish and less than desireable conditions! They are going to the Alamo (told one of the teachers to tell the kids to ask to see the basement). She asked me if I was serious, or was that a joke. Guess I just don't have a very good poker face! :). The rest of their time will be spent in and around the Riverwalk and will be staying at the Drury Inn. The trip is during Spring break, which is in March around the 3rd or 4th week. I don't know for sure cause they haven't put up the March activity calander yet, but you can go the school's website and check it, should be posted the first day of March.

-- Posted by nouveaublogger on Mon, Feb 22, 2010, at 11:14 PM

Eric, how about an update on the Court House?

Nonny

-- Posted by Nonnymus on Mon, Feb 22, 2010, at 10:59 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
The Preservation Committee meets tonight with the construction manager, so look for an update Wednesday morning.

Court documents reveal Palin's grandson uses socialized medicine

http://rawstory.com/2010/02/child-suppor...

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Feb 22, 2010, at 9:54 PM

heh heh...did I, or did I not?

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Feb 22, 2010, at 4:02 PM

ha ha...good one, Phileman. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Feb 22, 2010, at 3:57 PM

I noticed Slater, but didn't want anyone to think I was picking on you. After all, I've always considered you a man of "distinction."

-- Posted by Philemon on Mon, Feb 22, 2010, at 3:36 PM

Upsedaisy, you make a good point. I believe it's pretty sad how some people, both female and male, can go through life without ever having a sense of self that promotes a more positive interaction with their environment.

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Feb 22, 2010, at 1:46 PM

I hope everyone who read my post about the Harley Davidson company once being near "distinction" got a good laugh, as I did.

I really should proof my comments before posting. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Feb 22, 2010, at 1:37 PM

Thanks Slater for the link to the St. Louis PD article about mothers taking up pole dancing. Women can strengthen their bodies by lifting weights while wearing yoga pants. I hope everyone who followed your lead to the article also read the adjoining link to:

Ida Stack, who taught generations of area families Jewish traditions and customs, died Saturday (Feb. 20, 2010.) She was 88 and lived in University City. Her picture accompanies a description of a well lived life.

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Mon, Feb 22, 2010, at 1:10 PM

GNASH!! GNASH!! GRRRRRRRR!!

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Feb 22, 2010, at 10:34 AM

Here's one to sink your teeth into, but be forewarned you may be gnashing those same teeth when you finish reading it. Think you are getting shafted now? Just you wait.

http://theragblog.blogspot.com/2010/02/p...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Feb 22, 2010, at 12:14 AM

Funny that how the Republicans assume we will be voting them into power...lol.

Its a pretty unrealistic idea. I guess it kind of reminds me of a scene in a John Wayne movie episode where the bad guy says to John Wayne, "...I am gonna whoop your no count hide." The Duke looked him in the eyes and said, "Well...you might at that...but that it'll be after the fight."

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Feb 21, 2010, at 11:38 PM

Team USA upsets Canada 5-3!!!!

http://www.nbcolympics.com/news-features...

Our Olympic Hockey Team...showin' the Canadians how its played.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Feb 21, 2010, at 10:10 PM

Here's another story about mothers who sign up for various kinds of classes advertised to "make then look and feel sexy."

I wholeheartedly agree with the woman professor cited in the article who believes these activities not only fail to empower women, as they're loosely advertised to do, but end up reinforcing age-old male fantasies:

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/st...

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Feb 21, 2010, at 9:10 PM

Here's a story which I'm guessing will have an unhappy ending (claim DENIED!):

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/co...

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Feb 21, 2010, at 8:49 PM

News, I mean sociopath in the clinical sense. I'd like to have a look at his EEG made while he's being questioned.

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Feb 21, 2010, at 7:37 PM

I don't think Yoo is a sociopath.

I do think he gave the President exactly the legal opinion the President asked him for...specifically.

There were crimes committed in that Administration and at many different levels...and no one has been punished yet. I sure do hope they get the king-pins that were the masterminds behind those crimes. I hope the king-pins go to prison...but they won't.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Feb 21, 2010, at 7:17 PM

Now here's a little puzzler that's plagued me most of my natural life:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?...

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Feb 21, 2010, at 6:15 PM

For all of you digital camera users who missed this:

http://finance.yahoo.com/family-home/art...

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Feb 21, 2010, at 5:57 PM

I believe Yoo is sociopathic.

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Feb 21, 2010, at 4:07 PM

ND - I second OKR's comment. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Feb 21, 2010, at 2:31 PM

OKR said this:

"RO (Right On) Slater, or maybe I should say FO (far out)? Better yet, ROFO.

I see no reason why our antique catch words should not join the current lexicon. LOL

Wht u thnk?"

ME: Ain't nuthin' to it, Bro!

(Maybe I should refer myself to the jive talkin' scene in Airplane for a little educating.) :)

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Feb 21, 2010, at 2:29 PM

Eloquently said ND....also ROFO.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Feb 21, 2010, at 2:21 PM

RO (Right On) Slater, or maybe I should say FO (far out)? Better yet, ROFO.

I see no reason why our antique catch words should not join the current lexicon. LOL

Wht u thnk?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Feb 21, 2010, at 2:02 PM

MrXray -

You're right when you say that greed is more a national symptom. The question is, how did our society come to this point and can it be remedied?

Greed is the selfish and excessive desire to have more than is necessary (dictionary).

The individual who desires to have enough for a decent life without taking advantage of others is distinct from the individual who will resort to every tactic to acquire as much wealth as possible, regardless of who's disadvantaged in the process. Robber barons, they were once called.

As OKR pointed out once upon a time, the working class in America has been co-opted by these modern-day robber barons and made to believe that they're getting their part of the "American Dream." when, in fact, they're insuring the continued position of those on top.

Our government is as guilty of these violations as the private sector, since the lobbyists have seen to it that they're part of the crowd who's been suckered.

Our present-day dilemma can be traced to the beginning of settlement in this country by the Anglo-Saxon Eurpoeans whose belief was that they were carrying out God's manifest destiny to take whatever they wanted from the inhabitants of North Americaa, and that same mindset continues, as strong as ever.

I believe that's a primary reason why racial prejudice will always exist. Human attitude can't be legislated, but behaviors can, but only to the extent that white male domination will permit.

MrXray, the problem us commoners face is that the power brokers will always be creating illusions to keep us baffled and in line while doing their bidding. If this were not the case, we wouldn't be seeing the kind of economic problems we're facing. EVERYone COULD be enjoying a comfortable life under a form of capitalizm where people recognize the value of a cooperative spirit and teamwork.

Some would say I'm talking about Socialism, but they'd be wrong. We don't need a socialist economy or government; all we need is for people to agree that a minority of the population doesn't need a 90% control.

However, all of these points will be moot, since China will own 90% of America unless our bunch in Washington stops acting like spoiled brats and starts working together to solve the problems. That will require a unified America, of course, but we've come together as a nation in the past and I see no reason why it can't happen again.

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Feb 21, 2010, at 12:18 PM

ND - It would be interesting to know the number of successful employee-owned businesses.

As I watched that video I was reminded of the Harley Davidson motorcycle company and how it was on the verge of distinction when the owners offered the company to the employees, and now look at it.

I'm sure other like stories can be told, but I'm equally sure that number would be minimal.

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Feb 21, 2010, at 11:04 AM

OKR - I'm very sorry to learn about your son's difficulties. It seems we're never fully aware of the horrors of war until someone close to us has to deal with its long-term effects.

Cheney is definitely an evil so-and-so, and he'll get his just reward in the end.

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Feb 21, 2010, at 10:59 AM

Hey Xray...where've ya been buddy?

I am glad to see you're back.

Now having said that, lets get right into the subject at hand lol...

Ok Small businesses: Let's look at the facts.

According to the Small Business Administration,

1.) Represent 99.7 percent of all employer firms.

2.) Employ just over half of all private sector employees.

3.) Have generated 64 percent of net new jobs over the past 15 years.

4.) Create more than half of the nonfarm private gross domestic product (GDP).

5.) Hire 40 percent of high tech workers (such as scientists, engineers, and computer programmers).

...and that is just for starters.

http://www.sba.gov/advo/stats/sbfaq.pdf

Corporations are important in that they create a thing we call "synergy" which is a form of efficiency but their over all effectiveness is not nearly as great as you imply in your statement. In addition, small businesses remain the backbone of our economy are the main source of private sector jobs.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Feb 21, 2010, at 1:18 AM

Mrxray: Raw greed to me is the basic, and necessary instinct for survival gone awry. Those other instincts that tend to naturally contain it are weaker; altruism is on a lonely patrol, love too often links arms with greed, and is an often fickle companion in any case.

Hence the struggle to contain it, or when it is at its most powerful, at the least to channel it is never ending. We are at a tipping point. The quality of civilization is eroding. Time will tell.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Feb 21, 2010, at 1:07 AM

Too late on my midnight walk to catch anyone remaining on the front porch?

Upsedaisy thank you for the compliment.

I can not not write poetry. It is how I sing. Given the voice of a frog the words rise from the page only in my mind.

Thank you for your service to our country (the young marine you allow to hunt).

Peace

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Feb 21, 2010, at 12:38 AM

Slater: how is the greed of corporations any worse than the greed of the political class? Or how is the greed of corporation owners any worse than the individual greed of each person who only looks out for their own on a daily basis instead of making decisions based on what is best for the most?

Is not our problem with what you call greed at the corporation level just a symptom of the overall state of our society? Look at the 'hollywood' effect and how the people who influence our next generations continuously fail to uphold morals and ethics and show disregard for laws and etc. it is NOT a problem just with owners of corporations.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Feb 20, 2010, at 10:16 PM

Hmmmm doesnt the consumer have the OPTION of purchasing from ONLY employee owned businesses or cooperatives if the consumer was truly concerned about this? Does not the private individual have the ability to learn which companies treat the employees the best in this regard and then reward those businesses with their .... business?

If you dont like it, do as you said with the oatmeal, educate yourself and others as to the business model that makes you 'happy' and then drive the other businesses out of business....

Or... sit back and play the blame game.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Feb 20, 2010, at 10:12 PM

nandot: Just by YOU saying that Americans are working longer and harder and etc does not make it so. I dont see any stats to prove that... in fact, more people are not working at all or are just accepting part time jobs.

Based on your words, lets just shut down EVERY big business and big corporation. Shut them down and ship out the millions of jobs that they provide to other nations. What then?

Dont forget in your list the big Music corporations, Sports and entertainment corporations. The HUGE GE Corp that spews out Leftist biased news and prevents honest reporting on the most important issue of the day, the Presidency and the campaign leading up to it and whose CEO is in bed with Obama getting all those perks like green jobs money without any competition from any other business.

Oh..how easily and lazily you forget about the corruption and high competition killing overhead costs that Unions cause to the big businesses.

I am game. I know how to farm the land and hunt for food and protect my land and my family. Lets go back to the days where we do not have ANY big businesses... but wait, the BIGGEST business of all, the Government would then have ALL the power.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Feb 20, 2010, at 10:09 PM

OKR, I admire your poetry. I allow a young Marine, who served three tours of duty in Iraq, to bow hunt on my land. He enlisted after 9/11. He too, has a hearing loss serious enough to require hearing aids. Job hunting has been difficult, part time at a sporting goods emporium. He was glad to harvest four deer last year, only two this year. Smart critters.

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Sat, Feb 20, 2010, at 8:21 PM

NanaDot thanks for the real Repub link.

Slater I wish all businesses were owned by the people who make them successful.

UpseDaisy I appreciate the Howard Zinn heads up. I'm afraid I am going to miss it.

Guess I will check in later to see who has pulled up chairs to visit on the big front porch.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Feb 20, 2010, at 7:59 PM

Slater, I saw the ABC News about Bob giving the company to his employees. Nice man. I purchased Bob's Whole Grain Oatmeal earlier this year. It was highly rated by Cooks Illustrated. Has proven to be a winner. I have it every other day. Does require more cooking than the instant variety, but I can handle that.

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Sat, Feb 20, 2010, at 7:41 PM

Thank you Jo. Fortunately my son is home, and though he was in the middle of combat, and got "blown up" once he is better off than others who were in his unit some of whom were killed, and others grievously wounded. He does suffer from PTSD, and some hearing loss. We shall see what long term medical problems crop up due to exposure to environmental hazards of the dirty weapons. Lousy stinkin war. I shall hate Dick Cheney, and his band of miscreants the remainder of my days. I would welcome the opportunity to spit in his evil leering face.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Feb 20, 2010, at 7:25 PM

Good show on the Poem, Oklahoma! Hope your Son's well! He's home i hope?

-- Posted by Jo on Sat, Feb 20, 2010, at 2:12 PM

Xray, you miss the point. I'm not opposed to corporations, I'm opposed to the crooks who run them. The head knockers are driven by their own greed and the greed of the investors. Are you one of the investors?

Watch the video I posted and you'll know what I'm talking about. Maybe.

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Feb 20, 2010, at 9:57 AM

Have a look at this short news video to see what's special about some humans:

http://news.yahoo.com/video/business-157...

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Feb 20, 2010, at 9:46 AM

Oh...one more thing...

I actually do like and respect some of my opponents on the other side of the aisle...such as mrxray. Xray often times makes challenging arguments and he is capable of articulating his arguments rather well. I may disagree with xray on most the issues, but personally I have a lot of respect for the guy's intelligence, wit, and ability to present a logical argument.

I have been away for a while..... I might just cry... lol Thanks for the nice words

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Feb 20, 2010, at 3:34 AM

Here are a couple of poems I wrote at the start of the Iraq war. I am a lot older now, a lot more tired now, but still, still, the war goes on.

Seeking Saddam

Part building, part rubble in the morning sun.

testament to last night's bombing run.

It was no different anywhere in the city

for smart bombs can not show pity.

Those who remained inside lay prostrate with fear

awed by the silence for they could not hear.

The sound had roared, a thousand claps of thunder

designed to assure morale was quickly torn asunder.

Inside one room, one woman lay frozen

with fear of a fate that she had not chosen.

She feared for her life, she feared for her soul,

what god had felt it necessary to exact such a toll?

All over Baghdad a similar scene played out.

Some could hear the screams but no one heard a shout

of "we are here to rescue you, we are here to save,

we did not mean to kill you, to put you in your grave.

We came to kill Saddam and to set you free,

our motives are pure, as you can surely see".

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Three Men In A Sandbox

Rub a dub dubya

words were garbled

as oil leaked

then spewed

from their mouths

hands caked with blood

they caressed their faces

smearing blood and oil

camouflaged to match

a mosaic in the sand

meanwhile shovel and bucket

were untouched

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Feb 20, 2010, at 3:27 AM

slater: If you think the corporations are going to kill us off, who in the world is going to employ you and provide you with a pay check every week or month so that you can take care of your family and needs and wants?

It is the lazy person's arguement to blame big corporations or any businesss for that matter.

OHhhhh I know.... you want all people to be government employees and all industries nationalized and ran by the government and then the government can control what you eat, drive, drink and where you live and what job you can have and when or if you can go on vacation. And they will control what goods and services are provided and in what quantities and the prices, including your salary and benefits.

Exactly what group of people do you trust to do this for you without allowing the greed and power to just make all the "common citizens" serfs?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Feb 20, 2010, at 3:11 AM

Does anyone know if they had any Cockatoos at the Southeast Elementary School in Marshall Bird Show?

I have some experience with Cockatoos since they are the dominant bird in Australia and are everywhere here. They are very smart...and they pretty much do what ever they want. They watch everything going on around them perched on fences, power lines, and buildings, and they are definitely opportunists. They will eat almost anything we eat...and they are not picky as to what condition it may be in. They are very loud and have a deep, rough, throaty call...not a sound you want to hear first thing in the morning...when they are real active. Finally, while I am not complaining, I would like to point out that I have been "targeted" and hit by overhead...and I am not kidding you...laughing Cockatoos more times than I can count...and yes, I think they are doing it on purpose. The Aussies say that is a sign of good luck, but when I realize a bird has successfully hit its target...me...I don't feel so lucky.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 11:46 PM

OKR

Book TV (C-span) will have a Tribute to Howard Zinn on (Sunday at 4 PM ET) You had mentioned Zinn's writings in your postings.

Note the time is Eastern, so you might want to check your local schedule.

Friends of Howard Zinn gathered at Busboys and Poets in Washington, DC, to pay tribute to the historian and political activist who died on January 27, 2010. The speakers include Ralph Nader, Marian Wright Edelman, Amy Goodman, Dave Zirin, Bernice Johnson Reagon, Phyllis Bennis, Geoffrey Millard, Richard Rubenstein, and Busboys and Poets' owner Andy Shallal. The program also includes music by Bernice Johnson Reagon and Emma's Revolution and readings from Howard Zinn's books.

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 11:06 PM

Thanks for the victory news Slater. Mizzou 82-TX 77, brought joy.

There was much unhappiness when Mack Brown left the Tarheel football program for TX. Rick Barnes and Dean Smith had a few run ins, so when Rick Barnes left Clemson for TX, it meant Carolina fans had a double shot of angst about the two dominant sports at TX.

Not much to cheer about for the Tarheels. "It's a rebuilding year", we softly sob into our carolina blue "lucky" gear.

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 8:49 PM

upsedaisy

Yes so far the mineral exports have saved Australia from what is quickly becoming a World depression, but I am seeing some signs of the economy in Australia beginning to weaken. Folks here are keeping there fingers crossed but frankly given the enormity and importance of the American economy on the World, I believe it may be just a matter of time before the Australians find themselves in the same boat as the USA is.

..and I like your point and of course I think you are correct. Its really all a matter of perspective.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 3:15 PM

workingmom

I do understand your frustration...these are very frustrating times indeed.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 3:06 PM

I came across this highlight reel of the MU-Texas game Wednesday night, if anyone is interested:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCtoXt2pv...

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 12:39 PM

ND said this:

"The multi-nationals, the military-corporate complex and mega corporations are going to kill us off, kill the planet, and starve everyone else in the name of profit IMO..."

ME: I couldn't agree more. I keep remembering the Eisenhower campaign? commercial when he said something along the line of, "...we must beware of the military-industrial complex becoming too powerful..."

We have no reason to believe those on that side of the street would ever play fair, and there's far from enough honest and well-intentioned members of Congress to keep the other side in check.

I believe the Fall elections will indicate one of two possibilities - either the public will be too reactionary, or the public will continue to be apathetic, but I'd much rather have to deal with with over reaction than no reaction.

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 10:40 AM

News Across,

A friend is teaching this semester at E Cowan University in Perth. He reports unemployment is only 5% there and a boom in construction. So in addition to sunny skies, Australia's economy looks quite good.

Not so good in other parts of the world. Greece, etc.

"It's a recession if your neighbor has lost his/her employment, it's a depression if you have lost your job."

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 9:29 AM

News,

Maybe I am not making it clear as to who the gripe is against. I am not upset with those who are in need of the government needed assistance. I am very aware of the need for such programs and am grateful that they exist to help those in need and do my part to help those in need everyday. However, my gripe is against the pure structure of the system that seems to give assistance to those who on paper make less hourly, but with all assistance received, have the same things that I have worked and sacrificed to provide to my family, given to them, and at sometimes receive things that I cannot provide my family-- like a YMCA membership, because I cannot afford that luxury.

I am frustrated that I worked for years, to pay for my college so in turn did not qualify financial grants, only scholarships, and wound up getting college debt to obtain a "better" paying job when I could possibly be in the same position financially without the years of sacrifice.

Don't get me wrong, I love my life, my job, and my family and would not trade my life or circumstances.

I was airing frustration at the structure of the welfare system----NOT WELFARE RECIPIENTS THEMSELVES-- as I am probably 2 paychecks away from the welfare office myself-- so please don't take away from my gripe-- remember it is just a gripe--- that I am condemning the people who need the assistance--

Those who are in my same boat, such as Nanadot, can see and possibly feel the same frustrations.

-- Posted by workingmom on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 8:42 AM

I have a question...I really hate to break up the current convo...but I have to ask...

Does this article http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/M...

Reference the very school bond issue this town is trying to pass? Is this where the money would come from if it passes? Or is it a different bond?

-- Posted by Scarpetta on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 8:33 AM

missy08

All sunshine and warm green days here...even in the winter

enjoy!

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 8:32 AM

Didn't intend to confuse...

news, you just explained my point.

Polls allow the participant to choose an option provided by the creator of the poll. If PBS isn't an option.....

And, the pendulum swings, the world turns, etc.

Have a great day! Clouds, rain, a little sleet. No snow, yet!

M

-- Posted by missy08 on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 7:00 AM

OKR

You can find many definitions of the words recession and depression relating to different subjecs...psychology, dental medicine, ect, however in economics we define both as a period of declining prices (deflation) accompanied by high unemployment. Its not real complicated. Its the same definition for both words from an economic, scientific standpoint...oh and my colleagues do know this too.

Until the Great Depression 1, all recessions were called depressions. FDR ordered Government economists to stop referring to depressions as depressions in an effort to prevent panic consumption decreases since as a result of the Great Depression the word depression carried a rather nasty stigma. That is why even though the deep deflationary period of 1946 was referred to as a "recession" rather than a depression even though it was in fact much worse in terms of deflation, albeit brief (it only lasted 1 year).

All economies turn on consumption and many things can have a serious effect on consumption -- human psychology not the least of which. Thus you will never hear a current or pending economic depression referred to as a depression but rather it will be called a recession as most folks think that means some milder type of deflation...but in fact the two words from an economic standpoint mean the same thing.

Like I said mate, I think its unethical to mislead the general public into thinking somehow this period of deflation...which is on par with the Great Depression...is somehow something less than a depression. I realize in a day and age when ethics seem to have gone right out the window that folks have become accustomed to unethical behavior, never-the-less, I still respect my professional ethics.

I call a shovel a shovel and I call a depression a depression...if some of my colleagues prefer to ignore their professional ethics...well...I guess that is up to them.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 2:21 AM

Evenin all.

Slater the S. Odell location has been the middle school for some time. The "new" high school is on the west side of town (a nice complex).

Jo you are welcome my friend.

News I was aware that there is little technical difference between a bad so called recession, and depression defined. I have read several definitions of both, and agree that on the bottom line we are in a depression. I chose to not use "depression" in my statement because I thought some might see it as a strident, alarmist polemic, and turn away from reading it. Also Great Recession (capitalized) distinguishes it from our last great depression. Do you think a great panic has manifested itself? ;)

Thanks though, I never fail to read a good source of information.

Good night everybody. Peace

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Feb 18, 2010, at 11:49 PM

Is the high school still on South Odell?

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Feb 18, 2010, at 10:59 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
The old high school is now Bueker Middle School. The new high school is located on Miami Avenue just south of Vest Street.

Frankly, I also had thought about the option of moving the middle school to the high school and building a new high school instead. However, after thinking about it, I decided there were a few problems with the concept. First, many students attend both the career center (and Saline County High School) as well as the high school, so there is much running back and forth. That would create a huge busing issue. Also, many kids who participate in sports would not have rides to practice if the high school were not in the same location as the athletic facilities. The buses are, of course, tied up after school to transport kids home, so they would be unavailable to provide transportation for kids from the new location back to the facilities that are already built at the high school. Also, I don't think you're going to want to have one or two elementary buildings at the Gieringer property (if we can pass the bond issue) next to a new high school. You would be releasing many young teenage drivers at the same time you were releasing grade school children, some of whom will be walking. Not a good combination. If I remember correctly, our high school was built in 76-77, making it the newest facility in our district.

-- Posted by oneofmany on Thu, Feb 18, 2010, at 10:51 PM

Just a thought--has the Marshall school board ever thought of building a new high school and using the old one for middle school and/or grade school--would it hold that many students??? They have the nice sports complex there but there seems to be too little parking for the crowds so was wondering what if they would build a new high school on the ground they propose to purchase--

-- Posted by farmerwife on Thu, Feb 18, 2010, at 8:14 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
That option has not been brought up at any meeting I've attended. From what I understand, building new elementary schools has highest priority because those buildings, collectively, are most difficult to maintain and most overcrowded. BMS is also becoming a serious maintenance problem, but because the district's bonding capacity won't allow it to build more than one school at a time, the board chose to start with elementary and go from there. Moving BMS students into the high school might work, but it wouldn't address the elementary school problems.

missy08

The problem with the polls you post is 2 fold:

1.) Neither poll questionnaire included PBS as a possible answer so respondents never had a chance to choose PBS as their favorite because that option was never offered to them

2.) The polls you linked to are out of date. The reflect they results of polls respectively on November 21, 2008 and July, 2009.

The poll I posted the link to is current and was released yesterday. In addition, unlike the 2 out of date polls you posted links to, this last poll includes PBS as a choice and 40% of respondents selected PBS as their favorite news broadcaster over 29% for Fox News and 27% for CNN.

Just wanted to clear up the confusion.

Have a great day!

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 18, 2010, at 7:53 PM

missy08

"A new poll finds PBS among the most trusted institutions in America and the most trusted name in news. According to an annual poll conducted by GfK Roper Public Affairs & Media, 40% of Americans trust PBS' news and public affairs programs a "great deal." Fox News was second at 29% and CNN was third at 27%."

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 18, 2010, at 7:39 PM

Most trusted name in news?

or Fox

http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2008/11/i...

or Jon Stewart

http://www.neatorama.com/2009/07/26/jon-...

Have a great evening!

BTW, did anybody hear the weather forecast for Sunday? 8-12 inches of snow? Gads!!!

M

-- Posted by missy08 on Thu, Feb 18, 2010, at 7:11 PM

Poll Finds PBS Most Trusted Name in News:

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 18, 2010, at 6:34 PM

Oklahoma Reader

Economics...its what I do!

Anyway, one of the things some of my colleagues attempt to do is to try to encourage increases in consumption by telling folks the "recession" is over but that it will be a while before the jobs come back. That is pure nonsense and they know it. There are a lot of things they haven't told folks...for example they haven't told you that in economics we use the same definition for the words "recession" and "depression." During the Great Depression 1, FDR ordered Government economists to stop using the word depression because it might frighten folks and cause them to continue to curtail spending...further driving down consumption. Not wanting to further exasperate the situation, most other economists followed suit. I refuse to do that. I call a shovel a shovel and I call a depression a depression.

As an economist, I think it is unethical to mislead the public on what most of the economic indicators are telling us. Because of pressures that occur in periods of high unemployment and the resulting decreased consumption, such as "Perfect Competition," the deflationary spiral tends to feed on itself and worsen. In my professional opinion, at this point nothing short of direct Government hiring of most, and preferably all, the unemployed or a strategy that encourages the same practical effect in the private sector, will end this economic depression.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 18, 2010, at 6:20 PM

workingmom

I read your comment with great interest.

I just want to point out that if this great economic depression continues its current downward spiral, which in my professional opinion it is going to do, for at least a few more years...or longer...much, much longer, you and many others may also find yourselves unemployed. For you that could mean that at some point you will exhaust your unemployment insurance benefits, end up selling most of your assets, file for bankruptcy...if you can afford the related costs of bankruptcy, and find yourself like so many other Americans collecting food stamps and trying to make the scant welfare payment last until the next payment...if our Government is not bankrupt by that time.

As an economist I don't see the deflationary spiral ending anytime soon. I realize some of my colleagues do try to be less pessimistic than me, but frankly I think a lot of them are misleading the public. I don't think they want you to know the truth. Deflationary periods of this size and nature can end over time given certain conditions, but recovery requires far more than anything than that is being done now. Without a program that creates mass public and/or private jobs creation, I don't see anything near an economic recovery happening anytime soon. In fact, I predict unemployment will continue to rise and consumption will continue to decrease.

So you might want to save your criticisms of those Americans who have already fallen into the welfare pit until you are absolutely sure you won't be joining them.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 18, 2010, at 5:57 PM

Oklahoma: Thanks for the link. Makes you wonder why the New York Time's or Washington Post don't run stories like that on their Front Page? And why are Bush & Cheney and the rest , running loose? How could any American put the Republican Party back in office after their last 8 Year's? They have shown their credibility and Ideology don't work! Their entire Governance is a lie! All the other Parties were lead into it with Lie's? How long will we exist based on lie?

-- Posted by Jo on Thu, Feb 18, 2010, at 3:49 PM

Get real people...have you forgotten that we are still in the midst of THE GREAT RECESSION? A recession that will likely result in a "jobless recovery" per many of those that professionally read the economic tea leaves. I will be strained to call it a recovery if there aren't jobs with it. A recovery for who? Oh, the rich, and especially the very rich...how grand. :(

My utmost sympathy to all of you who are struggling in this sad time.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Feb 18, 2010, at 2:41 PM

notgvnasht,

If you truly "would work anywhere at the moment" then check the classifieds section of this very news paper. The one job I have seen pop up at least three times. A few of the others have been there a while.

My theory of limiting ones own job category is proven when you said "Now if i wanted to spend hours a day driving and fighting traffic in all kinds of weather than im sure i could go to KC and work just about anywhere."

-- Posted by Scarpetta on Thu, Feb 18, 2010, at 2:22 PM

I personally feel the system is broken, actually I think it is FUBARed.

In addition my issues are with those who don't actually need assistance...or forget what assistance means. There are hard working people out there who could use a little help from time to time. Rather than help prevent pregnancy and more people feeding off an already broken system, they encourage people to have more kids to keep their claws in the ever loving tax payer dollar...for little or nothing.

-- Posted by Scarpetta on Thu, Feb 18, 2010, at 10:28 AM

NB, the parks maintain some kind of schedule year-round, so it'll depend on which weekdays they'll be here. All someone had to do was go online and look at the park calendars.

I hope they have a good time and aren't too disappointed with the beach at Corpus. It doesn't look a thing like the one's in the movies. :)

You were reading Jaws, eh? (heh heh) Actually, I believe Great Whites have been spotted in that area.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Feb 18, 2010, at 9:24 AM

Here's a list of legislators who'll be vacating their chairs this fall, either for retirement or for another job:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/spe...

And if the American people do their job, the list should grow to monumental proportions.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Feb 18, 2010, at 9:04 AM

And one more thing--I was airing a gripe at the system -- not those who receive the assistance as they needed it--and I am glad that their children are able to eat etc... but I am saying the current system is jaded-- anyway--- HickoryDickoryDock-- if I give you my budget -- maybe you can see where I have extra-- because I don't, and note the basics are covered but no extra.

-- Posted by workingmom on Thu, Feb 18, 2010, at 8:50 AM

HickoryDickoryDock---

No we are not living above our means-- yes we do make it and have assets-- I am just discouraged and not blaming others. It does seem that the system is a little wrong-- I never stated that those on assistance are living "high off the hog", as I am not either. I stated that they seem to come out with a little boost for making less hrly -- as when all the assistance is added in it helps.

Another thing, I am trying not to take your comment as a jab -- rather a misunderstanding-- we do not live beyond our means-- rather we have many other expenses that those who are on assistance don't have-- health insurance premiums and copays (those on medicaid don't have these), food which we don't have food stamps or wic for, utilities (which we don't get assistance on), and house payment (we don't get section 8 for rent assistance) so no we are not living beyond our means we are simply living simply with basic needs met-- granted we are planning for our future like retirement plans, life insurance etc.. but we are unable to save for our kids' college-- we are making it but can't afford a lot of luxuries-- especially after daycare is paid (which we don't get assistance for either) -- what we are paying out of pocket is what others with less hrly wages are getting assistance for so they are coming out the same as those in my situation--- that is my point-- not that the don't need it -- but the system is a little warped

I am recognizing my full potential etc--- I was griping-- not stating anything but OPINION--

DO YOU THINK THE SYSTEM IS WORKING CORRECTLY????

I don't -- so please don't make a personal attack on me when I was talking in general terms-- I am happy with my life-- just a little disgruntled

-- Posted by workingmom on Thu, Feb 18, 2010, at 8:43 AM

OKR

Thanks for posting that very interesting link.

I am happy to at least know where our sharpened interrogation methods...I mean "enhanced" interrogation methods originate.

I hope everyone will have take this opportunity to learn more about our enhanced interrogation methods and the original source of instructions.

This reveals a lot about the Bush/Cheney Republican Party and why We the People should make sure that Party never gets into power again.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 11:31 PM

Slater,

Will do! One of the teachers told me they were going there. When I asked a couple of the seniors that I knew would be going (this is a privilege they earn, I think, having to keep up their grades and be on their best behavior during the year)they said they wanted to go to Sea World and Six Flags, but neither will be open in March. However, I will pass along the news about the jellyfish! I got into a mess of them (the non-stinging type when I was 18 at Virginia Beach. My first and last trip into the ocean water! YUK! The rest of that vacation was spent around the pool! True story, was reading the book, "Jaws"! :P

-- Posted by nouveaublogger on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 11:01 PM

Hmmm? Ja, Herr Cheney? http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/th...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 11:00 PM

Thank, for the Link on Beck ! That guy is a lying Clown ! How can anyone take that guy Serious ! I had no idea he had that kind of following! I try to watch all News Commatater ,but i can't stomach FOX ! Thanks Again!

-- Posted by Jo on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 10:59 PM

Smartdog, I think you would be well-advised to talk to any school personnel about why Mr. Blakely is no longer with the district. The comment about Dr. Gordon confuses me. The reasons for his dismissal have been well-documented, and he wasn't replaced by anyone local. I'm sure I don't know why Mr. Latham resigned, but I sometimes wonder how Marshall can find anyone to coach. You couldn't pay me enough to go through what they have to endure.

-- Posted by oneofmany on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 10:57 PM

I recently heard someone say that there's been conversation about doing something with rule 22, but I'd be greatly amazed if it were to happen. If it was voted out, I believe that would be a good sign that the stalemate could be loosening.

I'm hoping the fall elections will improve things, but I'll not be holding my breath.

If action could return to the days of "loyal opposition," we might be a whole lot better off.

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 9:55 PM

As long as we have lobbyist in Washington then we might as well give free reign to corporations.

Get rid of lobbyist then limit corporations.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 9:43 PM

Slater,

Thanks for the link to the WP article you posted. It is very interesting and provides a lot of insight into one of our biggest problems in Washington.

I found the following paragraph points to one of the biggest ongoing problems we have with this and other issues in Washington,

"Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (Ky.) and other Republican lawmakers have praised the high court ruling as a victory for free speech, however, and have signaled their intent to oppose any legislation intended to blunt the impact of the court's decision."

Once again the Republicans have made clear they plan to use Senate Rule #22 -- the filibuster -- to obstruct the Peoples' business.

These are indeed difficult times. Perhaps if the Senate would do away with Senate Rule #22, which is done strictly by a simple majority vote and cannot be filibustered, then perhaps we could finally see the Peoples' business come up for a straight up or down vote as our Founding Fathers intended.

I urge everyone to contact Senator McCaskill and ask that she sponser the necessary Senate rule change so that all legislation can finally come up for a straight up or down vote.

Senator McCaskill can be contacted at:

http://mccaskill.senate.gov/?p=contact

or if you prefer to call her, she can be reached at her Senate office in Washington at the following phone number:

Phone 202-224-6154

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 9:01 PM

By the way, NB, maybe you should pass along to someone involved in the trip plan that the Corpus beach is less than desirable and so, too, might be the water, since a lot of jellyfish seem to be active down there during March. I'd advise staying out of the water (which is polluted anyhow).

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 6:07 PM

GLENN BECK LOSES ALL ADVERTISING IN UK

http://rawstory.com/2010/02/glenn-beck-r...

"You can fool some of the people all the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all the time."

President Abraham Lincoln

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 5:56 PM

Here's a report I won't have to ponder about the poll showing that the vast majority of Americans disagree with the Supreme Court decision on campaign finance:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 5:53 PM

NB, March should be a good time for their visit. By then the weather is usually very spring-like.

My! Sounds like they could use a good tour guide. :) Tell them to be sure and ask to see the basement at the Alamo. (heh heh)

I hope they plan to work in the missions, and the Riverwalk will be a novelty.

Thanks for the update!

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 5:09 PM

Miss Marple, I suppose I should describe my reaction as that of surprise more than believability, particularly when listening to our news readers.

It is heartening alright, but in my case I've probably been focusing too much on individual testimony and not enough on general conditions.

Yep, you've caught me being less optimistic, unlike an earlier statement I made about viewing the tank as being half full rather than half empty.

Thanks for the reminder. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 5:01 PM

Slater,

Hey there! Thanks for the well wishes. I hear the kids are going to have a fun-packed 3 days down there. Going to Corpus Christi, to the beach; the Alamo; one of the many malls; the (?)Riverwalk...the trip is planned for March.

-- Posted by nouveaublogger on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 4:59 PM

Slater - Why not go out on an unfashionable limb and believe it? It's good news. Are we so accustomed to bad news that we can't rejoice in good news when we hear it?

Despite the latest rantings of Palin and her pals, the "hopey/changey" thing she dismissed out of hand might just be getting a foothold and how can that be bad?

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 4:51 PM

Here's an article from the Washington Post about the effect of the stimulus bill which gives me one of those feelings like, can I believe this or not?:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-kl...

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 3:21 PM

Local-A-rod: The problem with listening to, and believing, the "word on the street" is that it is usually WRONG.

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 3:20 PM

HickoryDickoryDock, two things (as to what you said, not directed to you or anyone for that matter)...

1) People on the hunt for jobs limit themselves, by their own doing. They won't want this job or that job...they must have THAT job. Well when you pass up 3 jobs...well don't be so **** picky.

2) What some people mistake for the high cost of living, is actually the cost of living high...

-- Posted by Scarpetta on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 2:33 PM

EIC (Earned Income Credit) is the big factor in big refunds, this is from the IRS. http://www.irs.gov/publications/p596/apa...

With the tax overhaul before Obama, you get more money per check. Which they did by lowering the amount of federal tax, which in turn lowers your refund.

When it comes to filling out the W4 (as Eric noted) you make a determination to get your money now (on your paycheck) or at the end of the year (tax refund). With 2 children I can opt to pay a single rate (which is higher) and pick my kids up at the end of the year, which helps me get a refund. I pay more in I get more back.

-- Posted by Scarpetta on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 1:55 PM

Working Mom I sympathize with your plight.I wish you would consider directing some of your anger toward our economic system that has allowed the erosion of the value of real wages for over thirty years. The real wealth has shifted to the rich as never before. They delight that your anger is directed toward the poor.

Incidentally a majority of welfare recipients are single moms with kids. What job around now pays enough to cover child care with enough left over to raise three kids alone? Yes it has gotten harder, and harder to make ends meet.

Just saying.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 1:30 PM

workingmom: I'm not an expert on tax matters (far from it!) but the way I understand it, refunds are based on the difference between money withheld and amount of tax due, so the size of refund only means you paid in more than you needed to. How much is withheld is determined by the number of deductions you claim on your W-4 form filed with your employer.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 1:25 PM

Glad you enjoyed it News.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 1:18 PM

smart dog.... From my understanding Mr. Wright didn't even apply for the job... Only applicant within was Mr. Duesenberry is the word on the street..

-- Posted by local-A-rod on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 1:03 PM

Smart Dog,

Everything you have said is exactly why there is no change in this town...and why there will never be.

-- Posted by Scarpetta on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 1:00 PM

OKR,

It just came to MIND... I need some coffee.

M

-- Posted by missy08 on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 12:56 PM

OKR,

No, that wasn't directed at you. It just came to mine while reading one of your earlier posts....

Have a great day!

M

-- Posted by missy08 on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 12:48 PM

Loved it Missy08...unless you were referring to me as the....OMG ;).^...$

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 12:33 PM

So, this is not the usual political "them vs. us" political rant and therefore I must ask the liberals and conservatives to bear with me, but I know of no other forum to express this.

I have just recently become aware that we fired Scott Latham, our MHS Activities Director, who I feel was doing an excellent job, so one of Board Member Wright's kids can get the job. Anybody else aware of this?

I know we basically forced Latham out, and I have never heard anyone that I know in the district give me a good reason why. No one seems to know.

Recently, however, it was pointed out that Ms. Wright has a son at the Middle School who wants the job. Anyone else have any information? This is sounding a lot like firing the director to hire local at 911, or MSDC, or appointing yourself to be city administrator, or drumming up excuses to fire Roger Blakely or Rob Gordon so we can hire locals.

It appears our public officials pretty much have no shame. Shouldn't they at least be somewhat concerned about what the public thinks of what is going on, even if all these events are for good reason? I used to make fun of this trend in Marshall, now I think that most tax supported entities in the area have embraced it as a way of life.

-- Posted by Smart Dog on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 12:15 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
For what it's worth, the minutes of the school board meeting indicate that the board accepted Scott Latham's resignation. There is no reference to termination.

OKR,

http://www.duboislc.net/read/Aesop/Farme...

Have a great day!

M

-- Posted by missy08 on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 12:00 PM

News

I hesitate to continue this since our disagreement is only minor, but I was rather annoyed by your method of argument, which I will get to in a moment. Basically, you maintain that Bush is an out and out liar while I tend to think he is just too stupid and stubborn to see the obvious truth. Either way, we agree that he was a poor leader. I'm not defending Bush, just attacking him in a different manner.

What I take exception to you more than anything is your quick dismissal that it was "painfully clear" that I hadn't read the entire article and made my conclusions early on, I suppose because I only quoted something from the first paragraph. Let me assure you, I read the whole thing, more than once actually.

Your article actually supports not only my position, but my method of presenting it, if you actually read the whole thing. In paragraph 13 it says, "The first paragraph of an intelligence report is the most important and most read and colors the rest of the report." Same can be said for a well written article, thus my quote being only from the first paragraph.

Another important part of a memo, or in this case an article, is the last paragraph, which states what conclusions can be drawn from the whole. Quoting the last paragraph, "While one Iraqi source told the CIA that there were no WMD, information that was true but distorted to probe the opposite, another Iraqi source was a fabricator whose lies were eagerly embraced. 'The real tragedy is that they had a good source that they misused,' said one of the former CIA officers. "The fact is there was nothing there, no threat. But Bush wanted to hear what he wanted to hear."

Notice that the article calls one of the sources a liar, but not the president himself. I won't go so far as to say that he couldn't have been an out and out liar, just that this doesn't prove it. All it proves is like I said, he was too stupid and stupid and stubborn to see the obvious truth. This is probably why the current administration won't try to prosecute Bush or his cronies. Like I said before, I think he still believes there were and maybe even are WMD's in Iraq, and expects evidence to be found someday to vindicate him. I also thing that if they were blatantly lying, Bush or at least Cheney would have been smart enough to get some evidence planted in Iraq to support their lies better.

-- Posted by Philemon on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 11:49 AM

Right on Workingmom!!

It is called "working the system", these people are professions at using the system to get ahead. Which is why in my personal opinion the world is as messed up as it is. As far as the big refunds go, Uncle Sam has the "earned income credit" which is where these big refunds come in. If you know how to fall in just the right place, you can rake in the bucks.

Then add: medicade - food stamps - help with bills - Y memberships - lowered rent - these people are living the life. They don't work or do so very little, they do their drugs get their nails done plop out kids and drink and smoke.

Then they get busted for drugs, get a slap on the wrist and keep soaking off the tax payers. While others of us are set to watch as they screw the government. It is called assistance for a reason people, they are assisting you...not a means for living. The system needs an overhaul. [/rant]

-- Posted by Scarpetta on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 10:37 AM

I have a gripe to air to whomever will listen.

My family is a two income household with 2 kids. We work average jobs and do not qualify for any public assistance etc. when it comes to tax time we usually balance zero on what we owe for state versus what we get back on federal

Here is the gripe :

I am seeing people making less than me hourly and so they qualify for food stamps, medicaid, wic, YMCA memberships (note which I can't afford). and then at the end of the year they get a HUGE federal tax refund that if were divided by number of hours they work would put their hourly rate higher than mine---- this system is messed up-- I beginning to think that I should take a lower paying job so I can come out ahead, get gov't assistance, and end up with more than those making more per hour.

I am just fuming about this as my family struggles to make ends meet others are coming out better for not getting an education and working lower end jobs.

-- Posted by workingmom on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 10:23 AM

Cat13 - thanks for providing the reminder that auto quality issues can happen to the best of them.

I wasn't aware that the gas pedal is made here, and I suspect most people don't know that, either.

I was just thinking about Firestone's exploding tires and Ford's top-heavy Explorer, and the countless other flaws ending in recall after recall and/or lawsuit after lawsuit.

This isn't to say that Toyota's problems should be minimized, but our "news" services should try learning all the facts of the matter before jumping to conclusions.

Thanks for your post.

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 9:36 AM

Toyota bashing! It's everywhere. Ironically Government Motors (GM) may gain market share. Driving many brands over many years tells me recalls and safety issues are not uniquely unAmerican. Remember also that Toyota brought manufacturing to the U.S., providing jobs, at a time U.S. based factories closed, sending jobs to China. U.S. Toyotas are assembled here and U.S. subcontractors provide a significant amount of parts. The infamous gas pedal subject to recall was manufactured in Indiana, and a U.S. company holds the patent. Remember, Toyota exported jobs to the U.S., and we need jobs when so many U.S. based companies prefer to send jobs to China and other countries that send us not only cheap products but extra amounts of pollution. We have simply off-shored carbon pollution when making the same product in the U.S. is much cleaner.

-- Posted by Cat13 on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 7:06 AM

OKR

That was a very insightful article. I enjoyed it very much.

Interestingly, many people think that advances both in terms of technology and in thought have proceeded on a steady rise since the ancient Egyptians to modern times. That view is incorrect. In fact, the Ancient Romans and Ancient Egyptians and Ancient Greeks were far more advanced in every way than were the Europeans of the 12th Century, for example. We don't call the Dark Ages "dark" for nothing. When the Roman Empire fell we lost a great deal and basically had to rediscover what the Romans knew. Sad but true my friend.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 2:19 AM

The following link is to a thought provoking essay regarding human kind, and civilization. I think that it is the sort of thing that ND, and Cheetah as well as others would find interesting.

http://blog.buzzflash.com/contributors/3...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 1:36 AM

correction

at the end of my last post I say if you don't like the message...read it...

I meant ...don't read it...

As to the frequency of my postings...well that will depend on the breaking news. However I will try not to respond any further to personal attacks and that should reduce the amount of my postings considerably.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 1:29 AM

Well since the sites that I post links are almost all factual news topics from Fox News, MSNBC, CNN, Raw Story, NPR, PBS, the BBC, LA Times, Washington Post, Washington Times, NY Times, NY Post, et al, I think the only real complaint most would have is that of the message. I can't help it that the news is what the news is. Never the less, I will continue to post the links. As to my arguments, they are either composed of facts that are well known or they include links to credible sources of information that show where I have gotten my information. I use as a accredited university standards as the minimum standard for proving my statements. Take for example my comment regarding the 3rd Geneva Convention comment I made today. I included a link to the online 3rd Geneva Convention as my source and posted the link for all to read it.

But I can't change the fact that often times people just don't like the message I am bringing. Some folks would rather you not know the facts and the information for various reasons. Never the less, as I once told Slater, I will post as long as the wind blows and the grass grows. I am not going anywhere anytime soon. So all I can say is if they don't like the message... read it...but remember not reading it won't change the facts.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 1:24 AM

Yes, I stated that I believed Third Child posted too often, and at unnecessary length. My reason was that he was in my opinion a parrot repeating the Alex Jones (is that his last name?) mantra ad nauseam, seldom linking to any other site than Jones'. I could have gotten his entire message from Alex Jones.

News is different in that his comments are original, and tied to various links that I often find interesting. His points are supported by disparate links.

Having said all that I was probably wrong to have asked Third Child to curtail. I have reflected on that since he left the blog, and it is part of the reason I have risen to the defense of News Across.

By the way any others that for whatever reason enter a period of frequent posts will at the least be ignored by me, and at last defended.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Feb 16, 2010, at 11:32 PM

Whew! It's hot in here!

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Feb 16, 2010, at 10:11 PM

OKR - you see what I mean?

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Feb 16, 2010, at 10:09 PM

Eric, thanks for looking into the courthouse lights. I really miss seeing them as I come into town at night, but I guess I'll have to get used to it. Maybe the lights on the clock would help. I'll look forward to your response.

-- Posted by oneofmany on Tue, Feb 16, 2010, at 10:00 PM

Slater

I really don't care what you do one way or the other. I used to respect you but I lost all respect for you when you resorted to name calling.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Feb 16, 2010, at 9:51 PM

Oh...one more thing...

I actually do like and respect some of my opponents on the other side of the aisle...such as mrxray. Xray often times makes challenging arguments and he is capable of articulating his arguments rather well. I may disagree with xray on most the issues, but personally I have a lot of respect for the guy's intelligence, wit, and ability to present a logical argument.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Feb 16, 2010, at 9:49 PM

OKR,

Isn't it odd how the shoes can change feet. I distinctly recall how you bristled up at Third Child on several occasions for being much like News has been, but now you're defending his behavior.

I believe News got what he asked for, but, as NouveauBlogger said, what he got was on the same lever as what he was giving out, and I put myself on his level by doing that; however, as we've seen since, it wasn't a case of one person's distorted perception. I'm not picking on him anymore, nor am I insinuating anything about him or encouraging others to "snipe" at him; the kinds of comments being made back and forth are no different from what I've seen since I've been looking in on this blog.

I no longer read his posts so I have no idea if what he's now saying is objectionable to others, but I'd say that's between News and anyone who might take exception to his opinions.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Feb 16, 2010, at 9:48 PM

Well no one ever said fighting erroneous mainstream establishment concepts and notions would be easy. No one ever said life is fair.

I try to stick with the issues, make the best arguments I can, defend those positions that I think are best supported by the facts, and I don't pay much attention to personal attacks. For me the only thing an attack on me personally represents, in the face of my defended position, is that it signals to me that I have won the argument since my opponent(s) seems unable at that point to counter my arguments or present new evidence in favor of their own. In the end, all that person or those people have left are personal attacks that fail to even address the issue...and bounce right off of me because I could not care less what strangers think of me personally.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Feb 16, 2010, at 9:39 PM

I think that it is about time that piling on News Across should stop. The sniping continues both directly, and by innuendo. I think that demeans those parties more than it does News Across. I also think that some (not all) of the sniping is done because he has the ability to point out the fallacies in other's statements which is frustrating, and drives some to anger.

A better tactic would be to better support one's own positions, or give them up for another if they can not be better supported.

Obviously people resist change, particularly changing their own views. Sometimes that resistance leads to irrational response for we hold our convictions close to our hearts.

A dispassionate rational consideration of anothers ideas, and statements better serves discourse, and allows one to ignore another's personal quirks that are irksome.

Enough with the congratulatory verbal high fives to each other about how we got News Across.

This has caused self reflection on my part so I too will try to do a better job of challenging ideas rather than personal quirks of various posters.

Peace

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Feb 16, 2010, at 8:15 PM

That's how I read it, too, OKR. Just for clarity - it's not the MEC's rule. Their reference is to Missouri Revised Statutes.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, Feb 16, 2010, at 8:06 PM

One more view from the cheap seats,(the really, really nose bleed cheap seats here in Oklahoma) Kathy and Ocean lord is that the intent of 105.454 is essentially to prohibit lobbying the government, or sales efforts directed toward the government, on the behalf of some other entity for one year after leaving office. I think that if the M. E. C. based their fourth class city ruling solely on 105.454 they misinterpreted their own rule.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Feb 16, 2010, at 7:42 PM

HickoryDickoryDock

The 3rd Geneva Conventions are International laws we helped write, are signers to, and are actionable domestically under Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 118 and violations are punishable but up to and including the death penalty. My defending International law that we are signers to and my defending domestic law has nothing to do with dogs or fleas, but it has everything to do with morality, justice, and doing the right thing as established by our laws and those international laws to which we are signers.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Feb 16, 2010, at 7:33 PM

I see that the Military Commander of the Taliban has been captured. That is very good news. I hope this will hasten the end of the War so our troops can come home. I also hope Obama will remember that there is no question that the Taliban, their military commanders, and their soldiers are all clearly covered by the Geneva Conventions. With Al Quaeda the question of Geneva Conventions protection is in a gray area...but with the Army of a Nation, its miitary comanders, and its military forces there is no gray area...Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar is a POW and entitled to all the protections normally afforded a POW...the Geneva Conventions are very clear about that.

Convention (III) relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949

http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/7c4d08d9b287...

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Feb 16, 2010, at 6:00 PM

AFW - Last week I had this tune running through my head:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKqO0FeaC...

:)

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Feb 16, 2010, at 5:47 PM

I swear I think this town becomes more and more like a cult every day. Before too much longer it won't be the City of Marshall it will be the Compound of Marshall.

-- Posted by Scarpetta on Tue, Feb 16, 2010, at 4:27 PM

oceanlord: I am still not sure that I agree with the MEC.

Section 105.454(5)reads in full:" Perform any service for consideration, during one year after termination of his or her office or employment, by which performance he or she attempts to influence a decision of any agency of the state, or a decision of any political subdivision in which he or she was an officer or employee or over which he or she had supervisory power, except that this provision shall not be construed to prohibit any person from performing such service and receiving compensation therefor, in any adversary proceeding or in the preparation or filing of any public document **or to prohibit an employee of the executive department from being employed by any other department, division or agency of the executive branch of state government.**

Note the portion between the asterisks, regarding what this section is NOT intended to prohibit. It makes me wonder if the MEC might have missed that particular phrase in delivering its opinion.

But that's just my view, sitting here in the cheap seats.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, Feb 16, 2010, at 4:21 PM

The Marshall City Council meeting is going to be held in a couple of hours. Wonder if anyone is planning to attend? I hear (gossip, rumor) that everyone has settled into their new positions quite well. Let's keep our fingers crossed.....

M

-- Posted by missy08 on Tue, Feb 16, 2010, at 3:29 PM

Kathy,

Thank you for the research with the MEC in actually obtaining a copy of the specific State Ethics Commission opinion (2008.09.CI.008). Providing the distinction between a class 3 and class 4 city is also very helpful. I think that the info provided regarding the city size definition would answer the address the issue of whether this should have a bearing on the MECs answer. I would opine that in this case size does not matter and class 3 versus 4 would be moot given the question raised to the MEC. I would say though that I think the specific opinion does provide a very valuable template as to whether it applies in the Marshall situation in that the city who asked the question of the MEC provided 4 specific scenarios of the MEC and asked the MEC which one they could proceed with. The first scenario is the exact case as it occurred in Marshall where the mayor resigns his/her position and is immediately appointed by the city administrator with pay and benefits. [For other interested readers, please go to Kathy Fairchild's comment down the blog with the complete web address for the opinion. The other scenarios provided in the request including the mayor being appointed the CA position without pay and two scenarios where the mayor retains the position and just assumes the CA position.] And in their response I think the MEC adequately answered the scenario that was similar to one that unfolded in Marshall and that is where they provide the comment that "Section 105.454(5), RSMo prohibits the performance of any service for consideration, during one year after termination of his office, by which performance the mayor attempts to influence a decision of the political subdivision in which he or she was an officer to over which he had supervisory power. Assuming the City Administrator is a position of influence, the statute precludes the mayor from assuming this position for one year after termination of his office. See Commission Opinions 2008.CI.001, 2003.01.101 and 1993.05.102. AS stated above, the prohibition includes the payment of any consideration."

So after reading the MECs opinion and thinking of the Marshall situation where the scenario was the former mayor resigning her position and then being appointed to a paid position of CA (which wields influence over the political subdivision of Marshall), I am wondering how Marshall got itself into the situation it did with this action. I would recommend the City Attorney should review this prior applicable CA opinions in some detail and that the city council take up the issue in the correct light of the facts. They should seriously consider stepping back and re-doing the CA hiring, including conducting an open advertisement, interviews, etc. As such if Ms. Latimer truly loves Marshall as she states many times in the papers, she should resign the CA position to allow the council the needed latitude to extricate themselves from this ethical misstep.

Though there has been blogger comment that would indicate that we should sweep this under the rug and go forward with the former mayor in the new position because "she'll do a great job." That is a moot point here. I am under the impression that the council is operating counter to state direction; in this case there is specific written direction from the state detailing the correct course of action.

Thank you slater for the pertinent details and info. And Kathy Fairchild, very good homework as well. Thank you.

-- Posted by oceanlord49 on Tue, Feb 16, 2010, at 3:26 PM

weull git it rite suun. Wur stull gettin lurnin.

http://www.urlesque.com/2010/02/10/missp...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Feb 16, 2010, at 3:25 PM

Thank you Slater. I hadn't been here for quite some time, took a while to catch up but some things I just can't let go. You stood your ground well last week!

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Tue, Feb 16, 2010, at 2:54 PM

rr3yvo: How about staying with the protocol on this blog. "Your" Pelosium comment is on right wing web sites all over the net. Protocol is to give an introductury comment then provide a link. It is not blog protocol to just plunk borrowed material down without acknowlegement. It is also plagiarism.

http://www.campaignforliberty.com/blog.p...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Feb 16, 2010, at 2:39 PM

Slater,

Yes, Missyo8 handles herself very well I agree.

-- Posted by pressman on Tue, Feb 16, 2010, at 2:00 PM

NB - I'm pleased that your mealtime expansion efforts are moving forward. I know you've been working hard to generate the interest and encourage patronage. :)

Sorry to learn about your husband's difficulty. Hope all goes well for him.

I gave up subscribing to the SMSN a few years ago, but maybe I'll holler at Jean and see if she has an extra copy of the issue with your story in it. Have to see if it measures up to the MDN story about your venture. :)

Yep, only a few months before a new crop of grads are turned out to face the cruel world. Some of the best years of their lives are behind them.

I'm still reading the Wilbert Myers story - I've rationed it to a month every few days - now up to May 1895.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Feb 16, 2010, at 1:21 PM

AFW - about all you can do is to just consider the source and go about your business. Right? :)

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Feb 16, 2010, at 1:07 PM

News wrote: If there are any apologies necessary, I suggest they be directed to our African-American brothers and Sisters who have worked hard, suffered greatly, and yet are still able to find enough love in there big and generous hearts to forgive us white folk for our sins.

I have never imposed any suffering on African-American's so don't need any forgiveness from them. Why play the race card here? When can White America quit making apologies for things their ancestors did? Does this also mean any ancestor of a nation who has declared war on the US should apologize to those living here now? Germans, Russians, Japanese, the list goes on. When is enough enough? How about "move on" or "get over it"? BTW, you have no idea of my color or nationality so don't make any assumptions here.

Later news posted: If people want to keep getting sucked into every new war that comes along, that is fine with me. I don't have to live in America and I don't have to live with the consequences.

Since you don't have to live in America, why keep harping to us about what "we Americans" as you like to phrase are doing? I know you are still a US citizen, blah blah blah. But then you make comments such as this one? I don't get it.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Tue, Feb 16, 2010, at 12:49 PM

Yep, the link worked. Pretty good stuff. Thanks for sharing.

regarding the new element -- an equal opportunity funny!

M

-- Posted by missy08 on Tue, Feb 16, 2010, at 12:28 PM

Salty Dawg - COLD SWEAT http://www.fox4kc.com/videobeta/?watchId... link likely won't work. "salty dog" formerly from marshall

-- Posted by wheresthelove on Tue, Feb 16, 2010, at 12:20 PM

rr3 - sorry, but that's not a new element. someone has given you a bum steer. that element is known as bushisium, but i don't see why the two can't share it. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Feb 16, 2010, at 12:12 PM

Missy said this:

"Does anyone else find it ironic that one on this board has complained about the war and violence yet he was quick to threaten violence?"

ME: Missy, not only ironic, but a tad hypocritical.

Pressman, she does a right fair job of defending herself, so I would expect that she's not particularly concerned about being attacked.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Feb 16, 2010, at 12:07 PM

WARNING:The following contains no truth or cold hard facts. It is only for entertainment purposes.

Heaviest Element Yet Known to Science Discovered

Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory in California has now identified with certainty the heaviest element known to science.

The new element, Pelosium (PL), has one neutron, 25 assistant neutrons, 88 deputy neutrons, and 198 assistant deputy neutrons, giving it an atomic mass of 312.

These 312 particles are held together by forces called morons, which are surrounded by vast quantities of lepton-like particles called peons.

Pelosium is inert, and has no charge and no magnetism. Nevertheless, it can be detected because it impedes every reaction with which it comes into contact. A tiny amount of Pelosium can cause a reaction that would normally take less than a second, to take from 4 days to 4 years to complete.

Pelosium has a normal half-life of 2 years. It does not decay, but instead undergoes a biennial reorganization in which a portion of the assistant neutrons and deputy neutrons exchange places.

Pelosium mass will increase over time, since each reorganization will promote many morons to become isodopes.

This characteristic of moron promotion leads some scientists to believe that Pelosium is formed whenever morons reach a critical concentration. This hypothetical quantity is referred to as critical morass.

When catalyzed with money, Pelosium becomes Senatorium, an element that radiates just as much energy as Pelosium since it has half as many peons but twice as many morons.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Feb 16, 2010, at 11:57 AM

Keeps life interesting!!!

M

-- Posted by missy08 on Tue, Feb 16, 2010, at 11:45 AM

missyo8,

you are going to get raked over the coals for your last post.

betcha! :D>

-- Posted by pressman on Tue, Feb 16, 2010, at 11:40 AM

I don't KNOW that I have all the facts. I, like you, only have the information that has been released to us. I don't believe for a second that the media does not "spin".

I don't want war -- ever. I hate to think that young men and women are dying because of arrogance and greed.

I don't believe we should impose our values and beliefs on others. I do believe we were attacked in 2001 and I do believe there is still a threat.

I believe that our President deserves respect -- no matter who it is or his party.

I am sick to death of "tolerance" when it poses a risk to us.

Does anyone else find it ironic that one on this board has complained about the war and violence yet he was quick to threaten violence? "...so I think anyone who would choose to assault me for my opinions would quickly find themselves both in the hospital and ...." just a silly little statment that has bugged me......

M

-- Posted by missy08 on Tue, Feb 16, 2010, at 11:17 AM

Missy08,

I agree with what you are saying but now that we do know about the run-up to the invasion of Iraq, do you think we should have done it?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Feb 16, 2010, at 10:31 AM

news, thanks for the definitions. I have a handy dandy little gadget on my desktop that is a dictionary...... My point -- we (me and you) are not privy to all the details and discussions that go on behind the doors. We only KNOW what is reported to us and we only KNOW what is revealed. Do you trust the media 100%? Any of it? This is not an invitation to label any as "liberal" or "neocon" or any of the other pet names. Do you really believe that you have ALL the facts?

Have a great day!

M

-- Posted by missy08 on Tue, Feb 16, 2010, at 9:40 AM

Who can tell me anything about the Chicken Tree or the Cob Factory?

-- Posted by red dog on Tue, Feb 16, 2010, at 8:36 AM

Cosa Nostra

It was just a question dude. Its ok that you don't know the answer. I was just curious because of your statement about being bored. As to how smart or dumb I am, I have no idea nor do I care. I ams what I ams mate...good or bad...right or wrong.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Feb 16, 2010, at 8:32 AM

Philemon said, "The more compelling evidence to me at the time that he did have WMD's was simply the fact that he had the inspectors kicked out in 1998 and wouldn't let them back in, even with the threat of invasion."

This is a point Mr. Bush made late in his presidency, a fairly blatant bit of history revision. Inspectors DID return to Iraq prior to the 2003 US invasion, over the objection of the Bush administration, which by then cleared prefered war because it wouldn't trust Saddam to disarm, regardless what the inspectors found (or didn't).

The inspectors were having a hard time getting cooperation from Iraq, but they were not given time to complete their task before the invasion began.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2...

-- Posted by taxedpayer on Tue, Feb 16, 2010, at 6:51 AM

OKR

No offense taken and I didn't think any was implied. I thought you were probably referring to Paul.

Yes, I was up way too late to have to be up this early.

-- Posted by Philemon on Tue, Feb 16, 2010, at 5:46 AM

coso nostra

Are you familiar with Dr. William Perry's scientific theories on levels of reason and their relationship to cognition and perception?

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Feb 16, 2010, at 4:17 AM

New Across: I agree with everything you said (EXCEPT) Bush didn't have the Brains to figure that out! The Republican Party put him there, to be their yes Man! Their "Mortimer Snerd". I called them Criminals at the time, and nothing has changed. They should be charged with Treason & Murder, and be in a Federal Prison buy now, for life! But,how do we carry out the Law, when they are the Law? If this is not Carried out, the entire World, should hate us! Yes, because most of us let it happen,and are still Complicit in this thing for not putting them away, or Hanging them like we did to Hitler's Regime at Nurnberg Trials! There is NO difference? We should see that this is done for our Brave Men & Women who are Dead now, for an unnecessary War! This Burn's me up!!!

-- Posted by Jo on Tue, Feb 16, 2010, at 3:27 AM

Philemon

1.) I become very cautious when someone tells me the don't support Bush then turns right around defends him...the two ideas seem mutually exclusive to me. In addition, it was painfully clear you had not read the entire article and in fact drew your conclusion very early on.

2.) In your defense of Bush you ignored the following which were all in that article.

a.) The CIA memo which was based on far

more than just one man's word and in

fact was based on years of intelligence

work.

b.) Bush's statement to Congress and the

American People was not "I personally

belive..." opinion statement. It was

a statement of alleged fact instead.

c.) The United Nations and the US Nuclear

inspectors had filed hundreds of reports

with Bush and had told him constantly,

consistently that they could not find

one single shread of evidence to

support even a slight suspician

that Iraq had nuclear weapons or

a nuclear weapons program.

When Bush stated that it was a fact that the United States was in imminent physical danger of a direct nuclear attack from Iraq...which he did...and then said it was based on all the intelligence he had available to him...which he did...he was directly, willfully, and intentionally stating a lie...no way around it. He knew very well most of the intelligence he had available to him drew the opposite conclusion.

War is a very serious matter. Just look at how many of our troops have died and been wounded and how many innocent Iraqi civilians died in that war and occupation...which still continues today. War is way to serious a thing to base entirely on one's gut feeling and not much more than that. Bush knew this, and he also knew he wanted the USA to control Iraqi natural resources. He also knew full well that Congress would not support a preemptive war in violation of the Geneva Conventions and all previous American precedent based upon his "opinion." So instead he did the only thing that he knew would be enough to get him the joint resolution he need to go to war...lie through his teeth.

...and unless you spent the last 9 years with your head buried in the sand...you knew that.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Feb 16, 2010, at 12:47 AM

Philemon my apologies if I offended. It was a rather ham handed response on my part to Paul's message of brotherhood in the book of Philemon. I should probably hasten to add that I am not a Paulist.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Feb 16, 2010, at 12:26 AM

An idle thought as I wait to see if anyone else posts this evening. I am wondering if secession from our union was put to a vote in Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, and Oklahoma, whether or not a slim majority would vote to withdraw from the current union.

I believe that there is a distinct possibility that they would. The mere thought of slabs popping up on every county court house lawn proclaiming the ten commandments would be far too delicious for the majority in those states to resist. Further, I think that the Southern Baptists would fervently support it because they would have the theocracy in place that they not so subtly push for with some success in each of those states.

The four states are homogenous in many ways. Check any social statistics, for teen pregnancy, incarceration rates, child abuse, spousal abuse, health, obesity, illiteracy, etc., and they are all four lumped together at the bottom. I can see them as The United Christian Confederacy.

I would expect New Orleans to petition for free port status. ;)

I

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Feb 16, 2010, at 12:22 AM

I'll accept anyone as a brother if that is what they desire, although I'm not quite sure where you are coming from with that. If it is just that Philemon is also a book of the Bible then I can guarantee that I won't try to convert anyone.

-- Posted by Philemon on Tue, Feb 16, 2010, at 12:14 AM

So Philemon will ye not also accept News Across as your brother?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Feb 15, 2010, at 11:49 PM

Thanks for the "Common Dreams" link Nana Dot. I also found it interesting. I wonder whether, or not any of the theocrats dared to peek at it. Naw, I know better than that for if they had that much curiosity they would not be theocrats.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Feb 15, 2010, at 11:39 PM

News said:

"I think you are well aware of this and I believe you want to intentionally re-write history out of a misplaced and partisan loyalty to party...but you will have to do a better job than that if you want to overturn all the factual evidence. It never ceases to shock me how Bush supporters and warmongers will defend Bush wrongs no matter how much factual evidence is placed before them. It kinda makes one believe that maybe you have a hidden agenda that isn't very well hidden."

Wow, I'm such a supporter of Bush that my first words to you were that I don't like the man. All I said was that you needed better evidence to call him a liar than that article, and I did read the whole thing, where the intelligence comes from a member of Saddam's inner circle. Considering the source and his and Bush's pre-established beliefs, I can understand why he would dismiss that intelligence.

Now, I want to make sure you know exactly what I'm saying. I believe Bush was totally wrong. I also think he totally believed that Saddam had WMD's. I'd be willing to bet that he still believes there were and maybe even are WMD's in Iraq. This doesn't make him a liar, just pathetically wrong, which is still unacceptable in a president. If this makes you think I'm a warmongering Bush supporter with misplaced party loyalties and a hidden agenda, then maybe you are even worse at deciphering intelligence than he was.

-- Posted by Philemon on Mon, Feb 15, 2010, at 11:39 PM

Thanks for the "Common Dreams" link Nana Dot. I also found it interesting. I wonder whether, or not any of the theocrats dared to peek at it. Naw, I know better than that for if they had that much curiosity they would not be theocrats.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Feb 15, 2010, at 11:36 PM

Slater,

I would be glad to send you more information, I'll do some thorough questioning of the kids tomorrow. Saddens me to think that I only have 3 months left with some of them, at least on a daily basis! The Slater Main Street News is doing an article on the Little Store, I'm not sure that it will be in this week or next! We are now serving Sunday dinner, a fantastic meal for a fair price! I'm trying to get a time frame to start serving dinner every night, but the hubs has to have surgery and I know that will keep me busy all day working downstairs and trying to take care of him also, so I keep putting it off. We can now seat approximately 40-45 people.

-- Posted by nouveaublogger on Mon, Feb 15, 2010, at 11:28 PM

Nice to see several of my progressive friends on the blog. Hi y'all.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Feb 15, 2010, at 11:16 PM

Today is the 190th birthday of Susan B. Anthony whoo said among many other things, "I always distrust people who know so much about what God wants them to do to their fellows."

To read more, and to get a larger picture of this great American cliclk on the link. http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/2...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Feb 15, 2010, at 11:00 PM

If there are any apologies necessary, I suggest they be directed to our African-American brothers and Sisters who have worked hard, suffered greatly, and yet are still able to find enough love in there big and generous hearts to forgive us white folk for our sins.

God bless our African-American citizens who have served and sacrificed so much for our Nation with great honor and distinction and who have contributed so much to our great Nation...and have asked for so little in return.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Feb 15, 2010, at 10:05 PM

A reminder - our standards for posting here extend to any links you post, too.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Mon, Feb 15, 2010, at 9:44 PM

HickoryDickoryDock

Yes I read it and almost wanted to vomit.

Also, its an opinion piece not an article...the rantings of an ignorant racist pig.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Feb 15, 2010, at 9:25 PM

HickoryDickoryDock

That piece of garbage blog link you posted only goes to show...the Klan is alive and well amongst us. The Klan and other racists should be ashamed of themselves. Of course, they are welcome to their opinion...and as long as they don't act upon their opinions and cross that line into discrimination and hate-crimes...everything will be just fine. But if they cross that line, we will put them in prison...where they will quickly discover they are not amongst friends.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Feb 15, 2010, at 9:13 PM

Nandot

Good on ya mate!!

I am happy to know that there are still Americans who are willing to stand up for what is right.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Feb 15, 2010, at 8:52 PM

Thanks for the link Nandot...that was a very interesting article.

As far as my previous comment, I have said all I am going to say about Bush and Republican and Democrat lies. I think they all do it and we all suffer because of it, but I don't think my harping about it will change anyone's mind. If people want to keep getting sucked into every new war that comes along, that is fine with me. I don't have to live in America and I don't have to live with the consequences.

But I digress...

Thanks again for the link!

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Feb 15, 2010, at 8:32 PM

NB, thanks for the tip, and what an unusual choice! If I may impose upon you, perhaps you'll pass along additional details as they become available.

They should have a good time here, but maybe on the warm side by trip time.

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Feb 15, 2010, at 7:55 PM

To Slater: Found out today the Slater Senior Class trip will be heading your way! Hoorah for San Antonio!

-- Posted by nouveaublogger on Mon, Feb 15, 2010, at 7:46 PM

Philemon

Next time you might try reading the rest of the article.

Bush was notified By the CIA that Iraq had no known nuclear weapons and that their intelligence indicated that Iraq had dismantled its nuclear weapons research program at the end of Gulf War 1... 2 days prior to his speech to a join session of Congress regarding Iraq i which Bush claimed the United States was in imminent physical danger of nuclear attack by Iraq. The memo was released under the Freedom of Information act is a matter of public record.

Bush knew this and left the statement in the speech. That means he intentionally lied. However whether or not it was a lie or incompetence the factual evidence confirms that indeed the CIA and the United Nations Nuclear weapons inspectors were all correct...there were no nuclear weapons in Iraq.

I think you are well aware of this and I believe you want to intentionally re-write history out of a misplaced and partisan loyalty to party...but you will have to do a better job than that if you want to overturn all the factual evidence. It never ceases to shock me how Bush supporters and warmongers will defend Bush wrongs no matter how much factual evidence is placed before them. It kinda makes one believe that maybe you have a hidden agenda that isn't very well hidden.

Oh by the way...have you found those nukes in Iraq yet?

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/...

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niger_urani...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,9265...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5458642

http://news.nationaljournal.com/articles...

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/22/intern...

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Feb 15, 2010, at 7:33 PM

News, I'm not a big fan of Bush, but you've got to come up with something better than that. From the 1st paragraph of the article you linked to:

"Bush dismissed as worthless this information from the Iraqi foreign minister, a member of Saddam's inner circle,"

So let me get this straight, Bush was supposed to believe this intelligence simply because a member of Saddam's inner circle claimed it was true. I know I would have ignored it too.

The more compelling evidence to me at the time that he did have WMD's was simply the fact that he had the inspectors kicked out in 1998 and wouldn't let them back in, even with the threat of invasion.

-- Posted by Philemon on Mon, Feb 15, 2010, at 6:55 PM

"Bush knew Saddam had no weapons of mass destruction"

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info...

"Lie" defined:

Noun: A statement that deviates from or perverts the truth.

Verb: Tell an untruth; pretend with intent to deceive

http://www.websters-online-dictionary.or...

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Feb 15, 2010, at 6:05 PM

Just say we Know what go's on in our Government,(and what we think), is just a take over of other Countries! What would we do? I think we would do, just what we've been doing through all these Years, ABSOLUTLY NOTHING! Because, i think most of the American People have lost any sense of controlling how we should be treated! we have turned into a bunch of sleepy little sheep , that lets our Employees do as they please! we should rise up and take back ,what they have taken away, OUR GUTS! If it takes the American People get off their cans, and go March in their face and make them resign, not vote them out, run them out! Voting don't seem to do it! When they start fearing the People they Represent thing may start to change in this Country! The Civilized method don't seem to work anymore! That's my thought! It may be Neanderthal, but, the other don't work! What do you think?

-- Posted by Jo on Mon, Feb 15, 2010, at 5:36 PM

Has anybody read the info regarding the Denver Airport "conspiracy"? Underground bunkers? Those pesky masonic symbols? Interesting....

Flurries continue......

M

-- Posted by missy08 on Mon, Feb 15, 2010, at 3:59 PM

missy08,

As far as the Iraq war goes I think we have plenty of info regarding the frenzy to go to war.

The outing of Valerie Plame comes to mind because her husband wouldn't lie about Saddam's aquisition ( or non-aquisition) of yellow cake uranium from South Africa comes to mind. How about Rupert Murdoch, the owner of FOX "news" admitting in a tv interview that he "slanted" his news in favor of invading Iraq? I wonder what prompted him to do that? I don't know about you but that's enough for me.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Feb 15, 2010, at 1:15 PM

AFW, thanks for that.

Also, I doubt that ANY of us have all the FACTS regarding some of what goes on in these great United States. So, statements like "this war began based on outright, intentional lies" is an assumption or opinion.

Oh to live in a perfect world.... then what would we post about?

Have a great day!

M

-- Posted by missy08 on Mon, Feb 15, 2010, at 9:49 AM

Air Force Wife

I was trying to make a point about the way we are so easily lead into multiple wars designed to control the natural resources of other countries.

What ever happens in Afganistan and Iraq will never have anything to do with our homeland or our freedom. Nor will we ever succeed in controlling either of those countries for very long nor should we even try. Just like Vietnam, these wars have nothing to do with our freedom and will never accomplish anything positive for us. Our children who are dying there are dying for nothing but oil and a pipeline and so some billionaires can get a little richer. In the process we are butchering their people...non-combatant civilians (as many as 1 million civilians have died in Iraq as a direct result of our bombs and bullets and the current puppet government of Iraq estimates 55% of those were women and children). Its time we stop these immoral wars and bring our troops home where they belong.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Feb 15, 2010, at 9:41 AM

news: Please refrain from using the phrase "all Americans" when you talk about killing brown skinned people. Not all of us feel that way and I for one resent the accusation. However, I am all for protecting our homeland, our freedoms, and our rights. I'm not looking for a debate with you just asking that you use the term "some" rather than "all".

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Mon, Feb 15, 2010, at 8:48 AM

OKR

I looked at the link you posted. Interestingly enough, their numbers are very misleading. Because of rules set up under Bush and by Bush, its difficult for us to actually know how many of our kids died in Iraq so far. For example, they don't count anyone who is wounded, put on a plane headed for hospitals in Kuwait, and dies after crossing the Kuwait border, and almost all the wounded are flown to hospitals in Kuwait as soon as possible after triage. In addition, they don't count anyone who dies as a result of a wound received while not actually on a mission. If for example one of our soldiers is walking down a street on his off time and an IUD explodes killing him or he is shot by a sniper, he is not counted amongst the casualties of war. There are other odd rules they use to hide the real casualty rate too, and we may never know in our lifetimes how many actual casualties we had in Iraq. I think given that this war began based on outright, intentional lies and that they use rules intended to mislead us on the casualty rates, perhaps the first casualty of this war was truth.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Feb 15, 2010, at 6:16 AM

oceanlord: There is a link to the text of the fourth-class city question about mayors and city administrators:

http://mec.mo.gov/Scanned/PDF/Opinions/4...

This is a very specific question with a very specific answer, and in my opinion, does not answer the question being posed here in Marshall.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Mon, Feb 15, 2010, at 5:29 AM

Yes OKR...we Americans seem to have come to the point where we have no objections what so ever to war ... no matter where the war is or why we are at war. As long as we get to think we are kicking butt...even if we are losing the war...then we support it!!

Any reason our leaders tell us...even a lie...is just fine with us. We don't mind our kids getting killed under any circumstances or for any reason...apparently. And hey...we believe the number of wars we can fight at one time is unlimited...after all we all know we have unlimited resources and plenty of kids to send to die in those wars. And we can always make more. These days everything is different. We have a new view..bad is good...war is peace...depression is prosperity. Yes our tolerance for war is unlimited now...and especially if we get to violate all the rules of war we wrote, ignore our own laws on war, disregard all the cherished traditions we used to respect, and commit genocide on brown skinned people. We love it and we want more of it!! Also, lets not forget we need these war jobs now more than ever. Yes we will just keep starting more and more wars and loving it...at least until the World gets tired of it and puts a stop to us...permanently. Sure we think we can take on the entire World...and so did Hitler.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Feb 15, 2010, at 4:05 AM

Lest we forget. http://www.icasualties.org/

I wonder how often it crosses the minds of citizens, you, me, all of us, that our brothers, and sisters are still being blown up in Iraq, and Afghanistan?

Earlier in the current period of war I know it was on my mind all the time. Not so much anymore. It may be that recently I have gone as long as a full day without recalling on a conscious level that maddening, saddening tragedy.

That has caused me to consider why. My first response to that self addressed question was that there are fewer reminders of the wars than before. No doubt that is true. My paranoiac inner self tells me that is because the Corporatists are very near achieving their objective of having us brainwashed to the point that we can all just go on our way accepting wars as a normal part of things with out further thought. Then I think could that be my rational inner self? At that point I really do get paranoid. My mind races, just when did I last see the wars as the lead story, covered in detail on mainstream television news, how often do the whining dogs making the rounds of the Sunday morning kennels howl about the wars? Do I need to check to see if the yellow ribbons on the cars of we patriotic citizens are raveled, and faded, or completely gone? Will they at last disappear? I don't think the manufacturers guaranteed that they would last as long as the wars. If that single symbol of the meager depth of our patriotism, sacrifice, and support for our troops nearly disappears we will have truly forgotten down to the last hypocritical vestige of caring.

My apologies for making this bitter comment to those of you who have, or have had family, or friends in harms way. I am of you so I know you will never forget. I fear though that to the others "the wars" are becoming just something that is a constant, something dismissed with a slight shrug of the shoulders, and a weary "that is just how things are".

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Feb 15, 2010, at 3:14 AM

Frank Rich's Sunday op-ed: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/14/opinio...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Feb 15, 2010, at 1:56 AM

I had an out-of -town visitor last week who had grown up in Marshall. While driving around to look at the sites in Marshall during the evening, we both commented about the new lighting on the courthouse. I told her, I would raise the issue on the blog. I think I brought it up once before, and I believe the response was that the new color-changing lights are more energy efficient. I thought one of the objectives of the restoration was to maintain the historical look. Granted, the electric lights that once outlined the top of the courthouse were not original, but they were there for many decades before they were replaced by spotlights. I vaguely remember the spotlights were used because it was too dangerous to replace the individual bulbs that outlined the top. The spotlights looked great, I thought. I think I saw spotlights below the clocks the other night. Will those be turned on eventually? Is what we have now what we will be stuck with? How will they be replaced when they burn out? If so, I guess I'll have to continue to cringe when the courthouse outline turns pink...then green...then, well you get my point. Eric, if you haven't already, how about making this a poll question? Any info you can find out about this and pass along, would be appreciated. I'm sorry if this has already been addressed, and I just missed it.

-- Posted by oneofmany on Sun, Feb 14, 2010, at 10:46 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
You raise some good questions. I don't think all of them have been addressed yet, so we'll check. We did run an online poll about the new lights last fall. Here's the result:

"New fiber-optic lights were added to the dome of the Saline County Courthouse during roof renovations. If you've seen the lights after dark, what's your reaction?"

* They look great: 39.9% (81 votes)

* Not as good as the old lights, but not bad: 13.3% (27 votes)

* They are terrible: 27.6% (56 votes)

* No opinion: 19.2% (39 votes)

203 votes cast

Oceanlord - What I saw when I read the complaint form is that one or two of the requirements make submission troublesome for some - like it has to be printed and hand delivered, and it cautions the complainant that the accused has the right to bring legal action against the filer if the charge is unsubstantiated (something along that line).

The issue has gone silent, which I'm sure the city is happy about. I'd be glad to file the complaint, but I'm not a resident of Marshall, nor would I expect to be able to obtain evidence to supporot a complaint. I didn't see any reference regarding residency requirements, but I'd guess one would need to be living there.

I, too, thought it was odd that Editor Crump didn't ask any questions when told the rules may differ for a Class 3 city, or maybe he didn't disclose everything he learned from the MEC person.

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Feb 14, 2010, at 10:41 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
I asked whether the MEC opinion would apply to a third class city, but the spokesperson did not directly address that question. I haven't had time to explore the statutes yet.

Oceanlord49 - I can answer at least one question for you. According to Missouri Revised Statutes, a 3rd class city is one with 3,000 up to 29,999 population; a 4th class city is one with at least 500, but less than 3,000 population. The rest, with some exceptions for older cities under legislative charter, are under a constitutional charter form of government.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sun, Feb 14, 2010, at 9:56 PM

Eric,

I realize that the issue is getting old, but could you get some answers from the City Council regarding some basic questions of the hiring of the current city administrator?

* I would like to know just where and how they advertised the position. From the comments and statements frankly it is not clear they actually took this action; the various comments in the press about the mayor/council getting resumes (that were subsequently deemed unqualified) begs the question. It would be doubly nice to actually see a copy of the job announcement.

* The follow-up with the Missouri Ethics Commission is great work. The response from the person you talked you begged some further questions. First off, what is the difference between a class 3 and class 4 city? From the lay person, it is difficult to believe that the opinion would be valid for one classification and not valid for the other, but I could be wrong. Where can we get that answer? And the obvious follow-up question then would be...assuming that there is truly no difference between class 3 and class 4 for the purpose of the MEC opinion, then what happens next? Who within the city organization raises this issue for resolution? Certainly they would not want to be operating in conflict with state ethics opinions? This is one of those questions where the answer seems to be obvious, but how does it get asked? And if the answer in the Marshall CA situation is truly similar as noted in the Missouri Ethics Commission opinion number 2008.09.CI.008 that "the mayor is prohibited from assuming the position for one year from leaving office" ... then what is the next step?

My experience is mainly with federal and military departments where there are the Inspector General functional organizations that deal with these sorts of things. As the city charter does not have anything I can see which has this function in it its job description, not sure how the policing action occurs within the city. I guess citizens submit a formal complaint to the MEC directly? Seems the issue should be resolved somehow and not by being ignored.

Thank you.

-- Posted by oceanlord49 on Sun, Feb 14, 2010, at 9:18 PM

Nandot,

I certainly empathize with you and can appreciate your concerns.

Fortunately, discrimination based on religion is highly unlawful in the United States and is also an actionable tort...which means both compensatory and punitive -- very punitive -- damages in any related civil actions. For example, if a supervisor at a place of employment made some of the comments I have heard in some forums in the US, that supervisor would be gone and the company would be in the process of settlement negotiations.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Feb 14, 2010, at 3:14 PM

upsedaisy

Yeah in the case of my wife and I assets considerations were no problem so I really didn't give it much thought. But I did mention its very expensive, but you are correct in most cases they do require the individual have a minimum amount of net assets. However, they also have a lot of political and economic refugees who have nothing at all until they get here.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Feb 14, 2010, at 2:59 PM

NewsAcross,

I've been to Australia a few times. Very enjoyable. Have explored Sydney, Melbourne and Perth. Still lots to see.

Each trip, met someone who was emigrating. You didn't mention the considerable financial assets immigrants are required to have.

What is the current figure?

Of interest to OKR, met a couple from Oklahoma who went out every year for six weeks to avoid OK winters.

Flies and snakes are a downer though.

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Sun, Feb 14, 2010, at 10:11 AM

Mr. Crump, I was wondering why the childrens Valentine pictures listing grandparents were not in the Friday paper, I thought that was the date for them to be published when I purchased one.

-- Posted by fresh air on Sun, Feb 14, 2010, at 8:51 AM

NanaDot

Lol good question.

Actually it takes a lot to emigrate to Australia. Its regarded as the 2nd most difficult country in the World to emigrate to.

Of course the first thing you have to have is an acceptable reason...a reason acceptable to Australia. I married an Aussie and that is the most acceptable reason. Immigrant spouses of Australians get first priority over all other immigrants. There are other reasons you can emigrate here such as having provable expertise in a profession that is in high demand here such as nursing.

The paperwork is enormous and takes forever to complete. You have to provide a complete criminal history background check by the FBI and every State you have ever lived in. It takes the FBI forever to complete it and they only accept finger prints as a form of identification, so it means going down to the Sheriff's dept to be finger printed. Then you have to supply certified documentation of every place you have ever worked, your passport, marriage licenses, divorce orders, a complete physical that only doctors pre-approved of by Australia can conduct, as well as your complete medical history. The applications include your complete personal history, your family information including detailed information of siblings and parents, and a whole bunch of other stuff. Then you have to have 4 certified character references from people who have known you for a year or more. Its very complex and they check everything thoroughly. It normally takes at least 6 months for them to check everything and can take as long as 2 years...and everything is under oath. They can extradite a person who lies on the application, put him or her on trial in Australia, and if convicted, imprison them for perjury. However, I doubt they go through the trouble of that very often. It is also expensive. The fees are outrageous.

But if you have the time, the money, and the willingness to endure it, come on down mate, the weather is fine! Surfs up!

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Feb 14, 2010, at 2:10 AM

Upsedaisy, here's the link to the Glasgow bridge project. Included is a sub link to the bridge history, which also talks about Howard County. My post of the other day was misleading when I asked if you'd seen the Howard County history page on the MoDot Glasgow bridge site.

Although the focus of the article is about the bridge and how it influenced commerce, it's a general conversation which I found to be very good reading.

http://www.modot.mo.gov/northcentral/gla...

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Feb 13, 2010, at 8:46 PM

Folks it has been my experience in life that often times religious discrimination -- racial bigotry -- is rooted in ignorance of the nature of other religions. In order to understand many of my Muslim neighbors a little better, I set out a few years ago to learn about Islam from an academic perspective. What I learned was amazing. I learned that the truth of the nature of Islam is a beautiful thing. Its a wonderful religion which focuses on worshiping and loving God...the God of Abraham...the same God of the Jews and the Christians.

If anyone is interested in learning about Islam from an objective perspective and you have a few minutes, you may want to watch some of the following documentaries:

1.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQcD6-JYC...

History Channel Biography...1 of 6

2.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yX3UHNhQ1...

PBS Documentary

3.)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhYt7s0MWtk

Biography of the Prophet Muhammad (part 1)

I think almost everyone would find these objective documentaries educational and pleasant viewing.

Enjoy

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Feb 13, 2010, at 8:38 PM

Hey Xray..

Nice to have ya back mate. Where've ya been?

We have a relatively new poster that makes you and me look sane...lol.

Good to have ya back Xray.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Feb 13, 2010, at 6:21 PM

What the f... Wow, I'm not sure there's any testament involved at that website. The stuff that's there is so far right you'd need a Hubble telescope to see it from the middle of the road.

I'm a firm believer in free speech, but things like this really test me.

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Sat, Feb 13, 2010, at 5:49 PM

rr3yv0,

This christian perspective of which you speak. Is that old testement, new testement or your testement?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Feb 13, 2010, at 3:29 PM

VISIT: www.ameritianity.com

Millions of Americans, doing their small but significant part in the governance of our nation, are in the process of ending years of "Minority Rule" by the most liberal, humanistic, five percent of our population. Great job....keep it up....give God the Glory.

We must accept the facts a deal with them:

Must-See Video by Former Muslim & Black Pastor - Added 2/3/10

(1) There is a battle taking place around the world and it amounts to the SLAVERY of Islam vs. the Freedom of Christianity. The USA being the base and stronghold of Christian Freedom.

(2) Islam will not coexist in Christian America. Islam cannot accept our Constitution, our Rights, our Freedoms, including Freedom of Religion. If America falls, the world falls. And they know it.

(3) Obama is not a friend to Christians nor American traditions. He does not see the USA as deserving of world leadership.

(4) Obama is a Narcissist, a racist, a Socialist. He respects Dictators.

(5) As seen in his "State of the Union" - he loathes our Constitution and the Supreme Court. He has stated that in his own words in audio and video viewable at www.ameritianity.com.

(6) We are witnessing a setback for Socialism because "THE PEOPLE" have awakened

(7) The Role of Religion - Now we need to remove the Tax Threat from the IRS against ministers speaking the truth from the pulpit in the same way that the Supreme Court has said the Right to Free Speech does not stop a the front door of Corporations.

(8) Obama wants to control where the power lies in America. The power lies where the wealth is. He wants the POWER to lie in the Unions (now own 2 car companies) and the Federal Govt.

(9) Haiti - look where the AID is coming from, the CAPITALIST NATIONS

(10) Healthcare - WILL REMAIN PRIVATE

(11) Waterboarding & Freedom

"In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven." Matthew 5:16 (NIV)

Join us in discussing these and other topics from the Christian perspective at:

www.ameritianity.com

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Sat, Feb 13, 2010, at 3:13 PM

To go along with the whole Obama debacle... he shows his immaturity with every thing that he makes 'decisions' on. You know things like closing Gitmo, when reality dictated that there was no where else to go with the detainees and Congress opposed the idea. Or what about the whole holding terrorist trials in NY but did not first find out what NY and the public thought about it, or the cost to the tax payer to actually have the court cases heard in this setting... and now probably having to eat some crow and change back to the Military tribunals... Obama has a major disconnect with reality and with the citizens to which he is employeed by

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Feb 13, 2010, at 2:40 PM

newsacross... dont drool too much. Being hynoticaly blinded by the OOOOOOO bama light is not becoming.

Obama's idea of spending cuts is to cut spending or freeze spending on what, about 1/8th of the budget? lol His own budget projections continue to increase exponentially every year for the remainder of his first, hopefully only, term and even further down the road.

You are going to be just like Obama and blame Bush for everything that goes wrong the entire time he is president, either 4 or 8 years.... it is funny to watch the lack of backbone that this president has and the inability to stand up and take responsibility for what he is doing. EVERY president has bad things to overcome from the previous one. AND you try to blame Bush for all the economic problems but forget that Dems started the ball rolling with the CRA and all that went with it until the entire US and world economy was tied into the Fannie/Freddie/Housing debacle that BUSH warned about in 2001, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007 and all the Dems called him a fear mongerer....... strange how easily you deny reality

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Feb 13, 2010, at 2:38 PM

"Barack Obama called Saturday for new spending cuts, warning the country must bring its ballooning deficit under control in order to be able to move forward."

http://rawstory.com/2010/02/obama-signs-...

After 8 years of out of control Republican White House spend and borrow policies, we have a President with the wisdom and courage to put those irresponsible policies to an end.

God Bless You President Obama!

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Feb 13, 2010, at 12:08 PM

Slater thanks for the link it was my Saturday morning entertainment.

-- Posted by litlmissme on Sat, Feb 13, 2010, at 11:01 AM

You know, sometimes the stacks get sooo deep you have no choice. Cleaning the office today. The sun looks great outside the window. John, George, Ringo, and Paul are providing the entertainment.

Have a great day y'all!

M

-- Posted by missy08 on Sat, Feb 13, 2010, at 10:01 AM

I've had this link for quite a while, and I may have posted it before. It's a page of various optical illusions, the sort of stuff I enjoyed once upon a time when I had eyes that worked better. Maybe some of you will enjoy them:

http://www.michaelbach.de/ot/

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Feb 12, 2010, at 11:20 PM

rr3, take a look at this ominous report about individual insurance rate increases:

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/U...

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Feb 12, 2010, at 9:07 PM

death panel?

Never heard of any such thing.

I know we sure don't have anything like that in our Socialized Health Care system here in Australia.

Do they have one of those in Hawaii where Rush Limbaugh says he got the best care in the World?

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Feb 12, 2010, at 9:04 PM

Clinton Should Thank God We Don't Have Obamacare

We want to send out our best wishes to President Clinton who's back home resting comfortably after a couple stints placed in a blocked coronary artery yesterday at the hospital in New York. All of us need to be thankful we don't yet have Obamacare otherwise somebody on the death panel might have assumed that he's old and retired and might not be worth the expense. You never know. You just never know.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Feb 12, 2010, at 8:54 PM

"Howard Dean: Democrats 'need a spinal transplant'"

http://rawstory.com/2010/02/howard-dean-...

Let's hope Senator McCaskill was listening to Doctor Dean

As Former Republican Senator Frisk pointed out when he was the Senate Majority leader under bush, legislation and Presidential appointments should be put to a straight up or down vote and let the will of the People decide.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Feb 12, 2010, at 8:52 PM

I always think it is quite sad to see various contributors jumping on the band wagon to attack another contributor whose writings pose intelligent and well researched facts and opinions. If you do not agree with what has been posted then devote the same amount of research to debunk what you object to and respond in a mature manner. Remember this, you have lost the argument when you stoop to personal attacks, especially when those attacks include xenophobic comments about 'being American'. We have great people in this country, but just being born here does not make you 'great'.

-- Posted by Divergent Thinker on Fri, Feb 12, 2010, at 7:46 PM

Sounds like tomorrow may be bringing MORE snow. I must admit, it was beautiful this morning. Slick. But, beautiful.

M

-- Posted by missy08 on Fri, Feb 12, 2010, at 6:07 PM

Slater your shovel is sitting in the corner waiting patiently. (It seems to have developed a slight coat of rust - couple of spider webs hanging on it...) I might suggest that on your way up I35 you stop by and help dig out OKR. OKR sounds to be much more buried in snow than I am and it would be good practice for you. I am afraid you might be a touch out of practice. I lived in Texas for a bit and I have to think for awhile to recall why I left but I do recall being totally out of practice at scooping snow.

-- Posted by broke-n-busted on Fri, Feb 12, 2010, at 6:03 PM

Cheetah once again you are as fleet with the pen as your namesake is at running. I feel, somehow, as if I have been summarily scooped up and thrown over your shoulder into a heap of... snowflakes. Great story.

-- Posted by broke-n-busted on Fri, Feb 12, 2010, at 5:50 PM

Missy08

I think perhaps you must have misunderstood that paragraph. Its my fault for not being clear enough.

However...moving on.

When I say my American citizenship is not up for debate, I mean that citizenship is, from a legal standpoint, what it is. Its something granted to me by birth...period. I am a citizen by birth. It cannot be revoked (see 14th Amendment for more on this), and I would never give it up under any circumstances. I am also a Naturalized Australian and of course I love Australia too...but I was not born in OZ. Nor is my family from Australia. My people are Americans...plain and simple. As I have said, we have been in America since it was a British Colony and my ancestors fought in the fist war (and every war there after) -- the Revolutionary War...no brag, just fact. So when some newcomer wants to come on along and infer that somehow since I have dual citizenship that I am a 2nd class citizen...yeah my feathers get a little ruffled.

The fact is there are no 2nd class citizens in our Nation, We are equal in the sense of the rights inferred by that citizenship...again...plain and simple. So when I say my citizenship isn't up for debate, I mean that no matter how much some folks may not like the fact that I have dual citizenship, it changes nothing. I remain an equal citizen...a right given to me by virtue of my birth and our Constitution and a right that cannot be changed just because someone else doesn't like the fact that I am a dual citizen.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Feb 12, 2010, at 4:30 PM

Oaklahoma and Smokin'

I say right on, or is it "write on"! In the words of another "that is funny right there I don't care who you are".

-- Posted by litlmissme on Fri, Feb 12, 2010, at 4:04 PM

Slater, we've got maybe an inch or two right now. Nothing compared to DC and other points east!

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Fri, Feb 12, 2010, at 3:38 PM

Thanks Cheetah for providing my chuckle for the day.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Feb 12, 2010, at 2:01 PM

Thanks for your understanding and support. :)

How much snow is on the ground there? One of your former residents who now lives in New Jersey told me this morning they have around 18" of new snow, and he's about to wear out his snow thrower.

Here in San Antonio we've gone from record drought to record rainfall, or near-record. Since September we've had 30.7", and the record for the period Sept-Mar is 31.7" so we're closing in on it.

B-N-B, keep that shovel handy and I'll be along!

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Feb 12, 2010, at 12:36 PM

Let the games begin!

An Olympic Cartoon.

http://www.imagechicken.com/viewpic.php?...

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Feb 12, 2010, at 12:22 PM

Thanks You Kathy i was wondering if that wasnt the case but just had to ask.

Thanks again

Honest opinion

-- Posted by honest opinion on Fri, Feb 12, 2010, at 11:56 AM

You said: 'More snow;" Make it stop!" I say, in a whining voice.

I am ready for spring, I have had enough snow and cold to last me until next year!'

-- Posted by litlmissme on Fri, Feb 12, 2010, at 6:00 AM

I say:LOL What she said. I don't think I have seen the sun for weeks. We have set an all time record for one winter's total snow fall, and winter is not even over. Every time I venture out I am hit in the face with a biting wind, and sub freezing temperatures. Make it stop!

Gee LMM maybe we all ought to switch to the weather as a topic. Betcha we would all get along. ;)

Seriously, The root problem with an open site such as Speak Out is that politics, and religion will pop up.

Imagine that we all walked into a huge room each day, and began to speak the same words that we do on the blog. Imagine that as we spoke to those folks we looked em in the eye, and the passion of our words that now leap from the page, would instead roar from our mouths. Half of us would be dead in a week.

I think it is healthy that this forum allows us to voice our disparate views, pretty much as we wish to express them. Then as we meet people on the street we can exchange pleasantries...and well be pleasant. Maybe we could all get tees that say "I'm Smiling Because I've Been To The Blog!"

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Feb 12, 2010, at 11:25 AM

Slater - Just be yourself. You are a nice person.

-- Posted by broke-n-busted on Fri, Feb 12, 2010, at 11:22 AM

I screwed up again! I am so worried about being politically correct.....

Just because our opinions differ, doesn't mean that either opinion is wrong!

There!

M

-- Posted by missy08 on Fri, Feb 12, 2010, at 11:16 AM

oops,

I believe my double negative created a positive.

I also believe that just because we don't agree with something that it is "wrong".

-- Posted by missy08 on Fri, Feb 12, 2010, at 11:14 AM

Slater,

No apology necessary, as far as I am concerned. When you post, it is 99.9% (cause no one is perfect) respectful, brief, yet knowledgeable, insightful and entertaining. Never boastful, condescending or arrogant! So maybe you slipped into that .1% for a short amount of time. We all do from time to time.

-- Posted by nouveaublogger on Fri, Feb 12, 2010, at 10:28 AM

MY FORMAL APOLOGY

I'm taking this time to apologize to all of you for my behavior toward another poster over the past couple of days. Everyone knows what prompted it, so I won't drag that through the coals.

I'll do my best to be a nice person.

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Feb 12, 2010, at 9:34 AM

The cops chased a guy for about 3 hours the other night didnt know if it would hit the paper or not any word on that editor

thanks

-- Posted by honest opinion on Fri, Feb 12, 2010, at 9:04 AM
Response by Kathy Fairchild/Staff writer:
As of this morning, charges have not been filed in the incident you mentioned.

oh news, your post of Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 6:48 PM, started out so great. I was sooo optimistic that we could all play in the sandbox together.

But, then, came paragraph four.

I too believe that we all want the same basic things. We want people to have food, shelter, medical care, education, a feeling of safety, and worth, etc. My belief is that everyone should accept at least *some* personal responsibility for these things and not depend on the government to provide for them.

I also do not believe that just because we don't believe or agree with something that it is not necessarily "wrong".

In regard to your citizenship not being the business of others -- you put it out there. You've made it the business of everybody on here.

At the risk of getting "voted off the island", can we all play fair and be reasonable?

Respectfully yours,

M

-- Posted by missy08 on Fri, Feb 12, 2010, at 8:37 AM

rr3yv0

Unless you are pretty old...and I mean near death old...you are a new comer compared to me and have no business lecturing me on my citizenship...and even if you were older...which you're not...you would still have no business discussing my citizenship because its none of your business. as to serving 2 masters...i have the right to dual citizenship and its none of your business. and by the way how about all those members of bush's cabinet who had dual american/israeli citizenship...such as Ari and Wolfiwitz and Pearlman...did you complain about that? I doubt it. And one last thing...in a Republic the Government is the servant not the master. We citizens are the masters.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Feb 12, 2010, at 7:31 AM

Upsedaisy - thanks for the timely reminder to be respectful of others, and I'll add to that a quote from Thomas Jefferson: The most valuable of all talents is that of never using two words when one will do.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Fri, Feb 12, 2010, at 7:21 AM

unless you are a psychic you don't know how long I have been a citizen. I have been one my whole life. I bet my legs are as long as yours though they reach the ground.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Feb 12, 2010, at 6:48 AM

I never questioned your citizenship I believe you. I know you can't serve two masters.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Feb 12, 2010, at 6:44 AM

I don't post here often but have read the blog every day for as long as the regular posters.

Recently, the long posts, vast number of posts, continuous links, and condidering oneself as being the only person willing to see the correct facts has reminded me of Third Child. Different topic, but same general attitude. Actually worse attitude - Third Child never belittled the rest of us by claiming to have a degree that made him so superior that we needed to go back to school just to have an intelligent conversation.

-- Posted by Philemon on Fri, Feb 12, 2010, at 6:33 AM

news across

It's not that I hate your comments its that I don't agree with them and I have every right to comment about them. You have every right to be wrong.

Seems like when someone makes a statement you can't dispute you want them to overlook yours wah wah!!

I am a full fledged American citizen not sitting on the fence looking to see which side is greener.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Feb 12, 2010, at 6:01 AM

More snow;" Make it stop!" I say, in a whining voice.

I am ready for spring, I have had enough snow and cold to last me until next year!

-- Posted by litlmissme on Fri, Feb 12, 2010, at 6:00 AM

Cosa Nostra

Lol, lol, lol, lol,...if you ever saw how well I live you would need that sedative...lol lol lol.

See ya in the funny pages dude!!

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Feb 12, 2010, at 4:33 AM

G'day.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Feb 12, 2010, at 12:25 AM

The gist of the conversation in recent hours has predominately been animosity over attitude, and volume of individual posters.

Flipping the coin here are some names from whom I would like to see more posts.

From left to right: NanaDot, Upsedaisy, Jo, Ms. Marple, WTF, John Q. Public, Smokin Cheetah, ceh, Scarpetta, White Tornado, AFBrat. I am certain that I am forgetting others. Oh yes, and an occasional appearance from Paulie Walnuts with his critical eye. Some weren't mentioned because they are posting frequently.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Feb 12, 2010, at 12:15 AM

Oklahoma Reader

Good point OKR.

The funny thing is that there are probably very few people who use the terms liberal and conservative who could give a good detailed description of each term without going to issues. -- a political definition, with qualification, that would apply in 1803 and 2010 equally.

Also, I realize that Marshall is in the boonies...but surely some of these folks realize there are tens of millions -- and possibly hundreds of millions -- of liberals nationwide...and growing! As the economy worsens we may see many more.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Feb 12, 2010, at 12:07 AM

aikman8 if left wing lunatics exist from your perspective you must concede that there is a prportionate share of right wing lunatics who also drive some people crazy. Do you wish that they would shut up even though they do not personally bring out your ire?

I hope that you only prefer some would shut up, not that they would be forced to shut up.

Fair, and balanced.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 11:58 PM

JODY... thats the blog name of the poster that ruffled the tassels of corn centered Saline County bloggers for a month or so. I believe it would be safe to label him/her a leftist environmentalist internet gypsy that went to small town blogs with an anticorporatist agriculture message. Town to town via the internet.

Too bad you weren't in on that one AFBrat, and Mrxray. Ole Jody woulda made you gnash your teeth.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 11:32 PM

aikman8

I also live in the USA -- Independence, MO...64050. Nice try though.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 11:15 PM

yawwwwwwwwwwwwwn. no wonder i check in here anymore only about every two or three weeks now and it's becoming less than that ... it's loaded with left-wing loons like news across who seems to think if he overburdens us with links and his idiotic comments and views then he is accomplishing something. i'd respect that view if he actually lived here in the states. but he is down under, understandedly, for his wife ... but if you're down there, don't pretend to understand what we need if you aren't close to it. you made your choice. live with it brotha. we are all TIRED of your rants and posts.

-- Posted by aikman8 on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 11:00 PM

Aaaah. Those were the days my friend, we thought they'd never end. Good evening NanaDot, and thank you my friend.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 10:57 PM

Eric Crump

Where were you when slater was engaging in name calling? why did you not delete the posts where he attacked me personally? these are your rules...MD's rules...why did you not enforce those rules? I have remained on topic at all times save for the few times when I asked slater to stop attacking me on a personal level and even then I did so politely.

I shall continue to remain on topic and I would appreciate it if you would enforce all the rules and especially those relative to personal attacks and name calling.

As I pointed out just a few comments ago...I won't be addressing slater or engaging slater in any further conversation but if I am attacked again on a personal level or if he resorts to name calling again...I expect you to do your job please.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 10:32 PM

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Remember "Please be respectful of others".

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 10:17 PM

The party's over. Time for me to tend to the cat.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 10:12 PM

Slater & News across:

Time to let it go, OK? This has become a spittin' match. Nobody wins but we all get wet.

A reminder: These forums, especially Speak Out, best support brief comments and relatively few.

A few people, burning with indignation, can spoil the fun for everybody.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 10:11 PM

I'll go along with that, News, as long as you agree to start speaking respectfully and with humility when addressing the other posters in here.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 10:03 PM

Ahhhhh!! Now we're getting somewhere! Keep talking, News.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 9:53 PM

Slater

If you don't like the Constitution change it. If you disagree with the Courts...tell them. If you enjoy urine and urine related subjects I am sure you will find many sites online to satisfy your fetish,

But leave me out of your fantasies.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 9:50 PM

Come on News! Don't deprive your captive audience! Tell us more about the constitutionality of peeing in cups.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 9:47 PM

slater

no one is forcing you to read my comments. stop acting like a child and just move on.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 9:36 PM

OKR, in good faith I offered to make a deal with News, that if he'd quit treating the posters in here like they have no brain, I'd quit picking on him, but he apparently chose to ignore my offer, so...

I've had my fill of his overbearing and rude manner, and I know plenty of others have as well.

For me it isn't so much about the volume but more about his attitude.

As long as his arrogant tone persists, I'll be right here to remind him.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 9:28 PM

Bill Nye the Science Guy: Climate change deniers are 'unpatriotic'

http://rawstory.com/2010/02/bill-nye-cli...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 9:21 PM

rr3yv0

I don't share your belief in magic (supernatural vs natural)...and I was not around when that was "written."

If you don't like my comments...please feel free to move on to the next person's comment.

Thanks in advance for your cooperation.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 8:57 PM

By the way some of my top five have not posted in a long time. Newer readers should back to the early ones to catch JJ Gates at his best.

You folks that think some of the posters now are irritating? You need to read JJ at his/her best. His/her is especially appropriate as one of the alter egos was Mrs. J J Gates. Secret Agent Michael Scarn another. They were one of a kind.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 8:57 PM

Hey..hey..hey, it is getting far too nasty here. Everyone needs to lighten up.

During the long time that I have posted on this blog there have been many people who posted very frequently, some of whom I debated, naw, I'll admit it, argued with. Many of them are gone from the blog. Guess what, I think about them, and wish they would drop by, say "hello in there" now, and then. Stir me up! If you are reading this even though you don't post any more you all know who you are. Betcha you also remember me. :)

One other thing, most of those people I learned something from, all though there are a couple that all I learned was that people can be more pig headed than I thought one could be. Readers/no longer writers you do not know which couple of you left that impression. It might surprise some of you that say "that's me" that you are wrong.

There are times when many of us go into a frenzy of posting. You know, it's therapeutic. It has been for me. I don't think that we should deny any of our fellow bloggers their therapy.

There are times when many of us have felt a sense of urgency that we must share certain information with people in our community, our blog community. Where else could any of us communicate at our will with such a varied group from most facets of the social order. We are all blessed to have each other.

I find News Across to be sincere, intelligent, and concerned. That is enough for me. I have learned from his comments, and the links he has provided. That is a bonus.

I do not want him nor any other of you to ever not post a comment, nor provide a link, because of comments "stating you post too much". That one comment, or one link may be one that provided important information to me.

On a lighter note this is my take as to who the most aggravating posters have been since the blog got going. Bear in mind that this is my opinion as to those who have offended the most people, not necessarily me. Drum roll please:

1. JJ Gates, and his multitude of alter egos.

2. Third World, Chicken Little with a brain.

3. The anti-corn guy, not from here but really stirred things with his rants. Turned Speak Out readers on to a web site that showed what each farmer in Saline County had gotten in government subsidies. Marsha had some discussion with him, and may recall his name.

4. Raytown Bill, so far to the right that I think he worried about falling off the edge of the flat earth he believed in. (It was fun Bill).

5.Me?

Sorry News Across you weren't even close to making the cut, nor were you Mrxray.

Watcha think? Anybody else got a better top five?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 8:40 PM

Slater this is just too much fun.

I looked in the bible and news kept coming up this is just one reference.

Proverbs 18:2

A fool does not delight in understanding,

But only ain revealing his own 1mind.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 8:39 PM

Actually Slater...

the US 6th District Court spoke to this matter in the Michigan case and it set precedent.

If you have a problem with that you can take it up with the 6th US District Court and the Founding Fathers...

...but leave me out of it.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 8:20 PM

Missy, you can take his latest post to the bank, because God, Jr. has spoken.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 8:02 PM

Missy

All Americans and non-Americans in the United States have Constitutional rights that prevent tyranny of the majority. Simply put, our Founding Fathers wanted to protect certain rights from possible abuse by the majority vote. This certainly includes the 4th Amendment which prohibits unreasonable search and seizure.

Some times folks voluntarily give up those rights in exchange for a privilege...such as driving privileges. However, entitlements are not privileges. They are in fact something that a person is entitled to prior to even receiving the entitlement payment or applying for such. That is why entitlements are different than privileges and it is why the 6th US Circuit Court struck down Michigan's law that mirrors the law our State Legislature just passed. Its also why our State law will be struck down too...almost as soon as it is implemented.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 7:59 PM

News, I'll make a deal with you.

You stop treating people in here like half-wits and I'll stop picking on you.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 7:55 PM

Missy,

I'm trying to figure out why drug testing is implemented in some instances (one you've just pointed out) but not in other instances (like part of the qualification for public assistance).

Lots of people who receive aid are genuinely in need and are grateful, and then there are those who live to work the system, making the entire process demeaning and humiliating for those who really need the help.

While we're about fixing things...

What do YOU think?

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 7:49 PM

A fool does not delight in understanding,

But only in revealing his own mind.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 7:49 PM

missy08

Driving a motor vehicle in the State of Missouri is a privilege...not a right...and not an entitlement.

But that was a good try lol.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 7:44 PM

Slater

How would you know what I personally believe about my beliefs...since I don't talk about my peronal view of myself in this forum...other than a few tidbits about my general circumstances?

Nor have I ever stated I have all the answers. I do post articles by folks who may have some answers, and I have thoughts on whether I think their views are valid. I agree with those that I think are correct and disagree with those I think are incorrect. As to who is right, well let's let the empirical evidence decide that.

Regarding my residences.

I have a residence in Australia and I have a residence in Independence and sometimes I am in Australia and sometimes I am in the USA. I pay US taxes on every penny I earn above $83,000.00 a year that I earn here in Australia. I pay property taxes on my property in Independence. I pay sales tax on every purchase I make when I am in Missouri...which is far more frequent than you may think.

I am an American citizen born and raised in the USA to parents who are also Americans and my family has been in America since it was a British Colony. I am a Vietnam era veteran who served in Europe helping to prevent a potential Soviet invasion of Germany. I served our Nation honorably and have the ribbons, metals, and DD 214 to prove it.

I have just as much to be concerned about the direction of our Nation as you do Slater, and just as much right to speak out on the issues of concern to me. Where my boots happen to be when I do that is of no consequence. My American citizenship is sacred to me and it is not up for debate.

I would appreciate it if you would try to remain focused on the issues and stop worrying about my personal affairs or what soil I happen to be standing on at any given moment, and who knows...maybe you will actually contribute something constructive for a change.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 7:42 PM

"Everyone who operates a motor vehicle in the state of Missouri is deemed to have given his or her consent to have his or her breath, blood, urine, or other bodily substances tested for alcohol and/or drugs. This is known as Missouri's "Implied Consent" law. You are presumed to know and understand your rights and responsibilities concerning the testing your breath or bodily fluids in relation to a DWI arrest."

Maybe when somebody applies for "entitlement", something like this can be included in the application...

Just a thought.

M

-- Posted by missy08 on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 7:34 PM

News now believes he knows everything about everything and he's going to tell US, not our people in Washington who are there to figure it out, but US, as if Washington religiously reads the MDN Speak Out column.

News, since you know everything and have all the answers, why not share that omnicience with our federal government? Just think of all the time and money you'd save the taxpayers.

Why, you'd be a national hero, and you don't even live here!

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 7:16 PM

CLEARING THE AIR

Folks, please let me set the record straight on something.

I think the one thing well all share is our love for our Country. We have different beliefs, different views, and different perspectives, but I think we all love the USA.

I don't relish the difficulties that are going on in our Nation. I don't like the fact that we have probably as many as 22% of the labor force out of work. In fact, I hate that as much or more than the next person. However, I think its important to understand the cause behind the effect. If we want to get folks back to work then we also need to understand how this unemployment came about. I try to shed light on that as best I can by posting news and information on that and other subjects that I think concern most of us. I take a lot of heat for doing that, but I think its important to bring this information to the forefront.

While it may seem important to spend money we don't have killing brown-skinned people in sovereign nations that pose no direct, imminent threat to our Nation to some folks, I don't think it is as important to those folks out of work who are struggling to put food on the table and are but one unemployment check away from tent city. So, yes, I like pointing out that while our people are going with out many of the basics of life, we are throwing money down the drain in foreign wars that will never accomplish anything positive for us.

If that makes me the bad guy...then so be it.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 6:48 PM

missy08

I was pointing out the scarcity of resources and the concept universally held in economics that more guns means less of something else. What we do to one side of the equation must correspond to the other side of the equation as well.

As to the shortage you denied existed...I provided you with 10 very credible sources that say otherwise. Call that a rant if you want to...but you are still wrong.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 6:09 PM

missy08

Thanks for the links.

Yes those kind of laws seem to be popping up all over...never-the-less they will likely be struck down like the precedent setting Michigan case.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 6:06 PM

rr3yv0,

OMG! You found his rant confusing also! I got a major lecture on that one! The posting is still on here -- Friday.

That rant came after the lecture that the US would have more doctors if we had fewer guns. When you figure that out, explain it to me.

Apparently since I don't have an economics degree I can't understand these basic concepts. (And all this time I thought it was because I'm a blonde!) lol

M

-- Posted by missy08 on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 6:05 PM

news,

Here are a couple more of those links....

http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/577/...

http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/578/...

M

-- Posted by missy08 on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 6:00 PM

One of the parts of Democratic Socialism you conservatives might love is NO taxes. In a socialist economy there are no taxes...you keep what you earn...no income taxes, no sales taxes, no inheritance taxes, and no property taxes.

NEWS I have a legitimate question. How is everything paid for such as health care and all the other services you mentioned?

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 5:55 PM

news,

I'm not confused this time....

http://www.drugpolicy.org/news/10_21_02m...

-- Posted by missy08 on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 5:55 PM

Slater

Please stop trying to tell me what I can and cannot do. I don't take my marching orders from you or anyone else. I make my own decisions and will comment on any topic I want to comment on.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 5:46 PM

Missy08,

I found an interesting article about this very thing that may be of interest to you.

"Michigan passed a welfare drug testing law in 1999 that required all Temporary Assistance to Needy Families (TANF) applicants to provide urine samples to be considered eligible for assistance. But that program was shut down almost immediately by a restraining order. Three and a half years later, the US 6th Circuit Court of Appeals upheld an earlier district court ruling that the blanket, suspicionless testing of recipients violated the Fourth Amendment's proscription of unreasonable searches and seizures and was thus unconstitutional." (Page 1, Paragraph 3)

http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/577/...

Apparently the Courts have rejected this kind of thing before.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 5:45 PM

News, I was talking to Cosa Nostra, not to you. Mind your own business.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 5:43 PM

missy08

I can understand where you are confused.

However, an entitlement program is one where the individual meets income/asset requirements and is entitled to benefit from the program as a result of their poverty.

A specific job offering by an employer on the other hand is not an entitlement. In addition, the courts have ruled that employers may ask the job applicant to submit to a physical examine in order to determine if they are physically fit enough to meet the requirements of the job and that a bodily fluid test can be part of that physical examination. In addition, the High Court has ruled that if person agreeing to random drug place bodily fluid searchers prior to accepting a job is Constitutional consent.

But an Federal Entitlement program is not a job offering. It is something the person is entitled to prior to application. This is a key difference and based upon that, this law appears to violate the individuals rights against unwarranted search and seizure under our 4th Amendment of our Federal Constitution as interpreted by the Courts in many years of precedent.

Again, I think it will be interesting to see how the Courts will weigh in on this matter.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 5:35 PM

news across

look at your own comment and you will understand maybe.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 5:31 PM

Obama Wants to Track Cellphones; Also Flip-Flops on Iran, Tax Hikes

He pledged to end Bush's "domestic spying." Now he says we have "no reasonable expectation of privacy." He said he wouldn't tolerate a nuclear Iran. And the man who promised not to raise taxes on those making less than $250K is now "agnostic" on the idea.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 5:26 PM

rr3yv0

The content of your arguments is available for each reader to decide. The comments I have read that you have posted seem to attempt to defend Republican/conservative positions. I think that is pretty clear. I don't think I am reading anything into any of them that is not there...however if you think that is the case that is fine. Did you want to clear the air on that and if so which comment am I misreading...are you saying you do not support the Republican Party and its conservatives? If so, I don't see that anyplace in your comments.

As to apologies...you say you have asked for none and I say I have offered none...so what's your point?

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 5:25 PM

Scarpetta,

I agree! It is about time! news, this is no different than an employer requiring drug testing to insure a safe and secure work place. These folks are also collecting a "paycheck".

M

-- Posted by missy08 on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 5:22 PM

news across

lets see the contents of my arguments define my position!!! Duh yeah you are right you win the prize.

I don't recall asking for any apologies.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 5:19 PM

Slater

In response to your comment regarding the research capabilities of my fellow readers of the MD...

I don't know what level of research each individula is capable of. Its not something that I think about much because that is a personal matter each individual has to decide for themselves.

However, I do like posting links to articles that I believe might be of interest to others.

If a particular link I post is of no interest to you then I recommend you skip it and move on.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 5:15 PM

Cosa Nostra,

Apparently NewsAcross thinks the rest of us can't read and/or are incapable of searching out news articles IF and WHEN we have the desire to do so.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 5:04 PM

Mo. House OKs drug testing for welfare benefits

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/M...

So let me see if I understand this correctly. Our State legislature wants to do a bodily fluids search of anyone who may be qualified for and seeking assistance from a FEDERAL ENTITLEMENT program for children... with out a lawful warrant or probable cause?

I can see some serious Constitutional problems with that.

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

US Constitution, Amendment #4

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html...

It will be interesting to see how the Courts weigh in on this.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 4:37 PM

Majority in unscientific FOX News.com poll pegs Tea Party movement 'racist'

77% say Tea Party is a "fruitless mix of racism and conspiracy theories."

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/02/0...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 4:20 PM

rr3yv0

Every comment I have seen you post is in defense of Republicans or an attack on Democrats...or both. I think that perhaps the content of your arguments defines your position.

But you are correct about one thing sir/madam, I do have criticisms of both the major parties. I make no apologies for that.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 4:12 PM

"Ten percent of House GOP calling it quits"

http://rawstory.com/2010/02/10-house-gop...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 4:07 PM

Cosa Nostra

I don't launch personal attacks. I do attack faulty arguments.

I might recommend you do the same sir/madam

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 4:02 PM

Just noticed this article http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/M...

Over there on the right on our very own MDN...

All I can say...it's about time!!

-- Posted by Scarpetta on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 3:54 PM

WTF.. great quote!

news, exactly!

Cold and snow.... cold and snow.... snow and cold....

M

-- Posted by missy08 on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 1:13 PM

Fun little game, Dock. Thanks! :)

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 12:29 PM

One thing about news across is an equal opportunity attacker. He assumes your a conservative if you disagree with him. I've had better debates with far more important people.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 12:15 PM

My wife and I are going out to the Brasserie Pavil restaurant for dinner tomorrow evening with our next-door neighbors to celebrate Valentine's Day. We get out with them fairly often, and the neighbor lady say's we're "double dating." :)

We're taking them to a new French restaurant, a Brasserie, as it's called, which we've been to once, so we're looking forward to some good food and good company.

I recall several past comments about the lack of a good place to dine there in Marshall, and I was just remembering Sarley's. That's one advantage to living in a big city like this one - lots of good places to eat. A bit of trivia: at last count there are 756 Mexican food vendors alone here. :)

However you choose to celebrate Valentine's Day, I hope it's enjoyable!

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 11:54 AM

Ha! Ha! - OKR, you're so ornery! :)

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 11:31 AM

News, remember this? "I don't have any reason to attack you, so don't give me one."

Take it to heart and go your way, while I go mine.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 10:57 AM

Something to chew on.

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."

---Winston Churchill

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 10:56 AM

As to Slater's name calling...

Perhaps Slater would be far more effective if he would stick to the issues at hand and try attacking the message instead of the messenger.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 9:25 AM

missy08

With all due respect, if you only read the headline...who's fault is that?

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 9:23 AM

Gal66

I am not at all surprised that you think that. It won't make any difference, but it does speak volumes as to your perception of the World...and it answers a lot of questions.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 9:22 AM

Cosa Nostra

Well maybe you just don't like the message so you want to blame the messengers.

A lot of conservatives do that.

I guess its easy to go through life not knowing the truth of what is happening outside one's little World, but no matter how long the ostrich tries to keep his head in the sand...that truth catches up with him sooner or later. At least if he has his head up and his eyes wide open, he can effect some kind of change and stand a fighting chance when reality finally arrives.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 9:19 AM

Okay, in regard to health care (chapter 1001?) -- It is so easy to become emotional when dealing with disease, dying, and death. That is the way we're "wired". It is excruciating when a child is involved.

Is anyone familiar with the term "triage"? In the most basic sense, it means to take care of the sickest patient first. In the most extreme it means to let the sickest patient die because attempts to save them would "probably" be wasted and "resources" could be better utilized on other patients.

I am not defending insurance companies. I am not saying we don't need a system overhaul. I am suggesting that there is usually more to the story than the headline.

I am just offering a little bit of information.

Have a great day!

M

-- Posted by missy08 on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 8:46 AM

Slater said "News, I didn't say your arguments are erroneous. What I said is that I've grown weary of having to scroll through your prodigious posts to find the ones I want to read. I've already read everything you've had to say, so there's no point in reading any more of them.

If you consider that to be a personal attack, that's your problem, not mine."

And I say thats the best post on her in weeks!!!!!

-- Posted by Gal66 on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 8:17 AM

Slater I agree with you news across takes this waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to seriosly.

It does make for good entertainment though if you have time to read it all.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 6:31 AM

An early happy St. Valentines Day to all the lady posters...you will love this one girls.

http://blog.buzzflash.com/contributors/2...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 1:13 AM

Slater

Request denied.

I owe you nothing -- especially after that personal attack and borderline name calling you engaged in.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 12:02 AM

Good night to you HootOwls. My feeble eyeballs need a break.

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Feb 10, 2010, at 11:58 PM

News,

I have no reason to attack you, so don't give me one.

Maybe you've forgotten that Editor Crump has asked on more than one occasion that we not abuse the privilege of using this forum by posting lengthy and numerous comments.

Consider my earlier post a request to reduce your volume some.

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Feb 10, 2010, at 11:49 PM

Slater

Your comment below was definitely a personal attack. Its there for anyone to read.

If you don't like a comment I write or a link I post then please...just skip it.

However, I will continue to post here as long as the wind blows and the grass grows.

In the mean time, I would appreciate it if you could refrain from personal attacks.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Feb 10, 2010, at 11:29 PM

OKR - it's a one-sided squabble as far as I'm concerned. I merely expressed my opinion about the volume of posts which say the same things over and over.

I'm entitled.

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Feb 10, 2010, at 11:28 PM

Oklahoma Reader

Yes I agree...we absolutely need some mechanism in place that provides incentive for all professionals to maintain their lawful and ethical obligations to their clients.

If we remove deterrents to professional misconduct, professionals ignoring their fiduciary duty, and professional malpractice then the entire process of licensing professionals such as Attorneys, Psychologists, Public Accountants, and Physicians would be pointless.

If we are going to remove this civil recourse as a deterrent then perhaps the only requirement for any professional would be simply hanging his shingle outside his door. No need for credentials or licensing...just hang the shingle because there would be no method of determining whether or not the individual meets any professional standard once they begin practicing in their chosen profession. Testing and Licensing would be all but pointless since there would be no way to hold them to any level of expertise once they go to work...on us.

The neocons have long wanted to eliminate this civil recourse to malpractice in the case of physicians...I think to be fair we would have to treat all professionals in the same manner.

So if the neocons want to take away or limit further the citizens' only recourse to malpractice we will have to find a new deterrent. I think the only option left at that point would be severe criminal penalties for malpractice.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Feb 10, 2010, at 11:25 PM

Slater, Thanks I'll check for the Howard County history link. I had no idea growing up during the second world war how important that bridge was. Of course, I do remember the troop trains going through Slater, so it should have been obvious that the bridge did indeed need a 24 hour guard.

Thanks also for the mention of the NY Times article on health care.

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Wed, Feb 10, 2010, at 11:25 PM

News, I didn't say your arguments are erroneous. What I said is that I've grown weary of having to scroll through your prodigious posts to find the ones I want to read. I've already read everything you've had to say, so there's no point in reading any more of them.

If you consider that to be a personal attack, that's your problem, not mine.

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Feb 10, 2010, at 11:23 PM

I'm usually not one to get in the middle of a scrap, and I am not going to now...beyond stating that this is an open forum and I think that the etiquette on open forums is to ignore posts that are not homogenous with one's taste. One, of course, is always welcome to debate other posts.

Butcha cain't tell sum buddy to shaddup.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Feb 10, 2010, at 11:16 PM

Slater

I would appreciate it if you would stick to the topics and stop attacking me personally.

If you can prove my arguments wrong then great.

If you can't...that is ok too...

but please...leave the personal attacks out of it.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Feb 10, 2010, at 11:06 PM

Slater thanks for the link to the long term hospital story. Such things happen everyday.

It seems kind of ironic that people clamor for tort reform when fear of law suits is about the only thing keeping those nests of negligence from being even worse than they are.

I say tort reform if we must, but only when stiff criminal penalties for gross negligence by health care providers is in place.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Feb 10, 2010, at 10:57 PM

News, you're guilty of precisely what Simon warned against.

Go argue with someone who has the inclination for idle chatter.

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Feb 10, 2010, at 10:43 PM

Upsedaisy,

I'm glad you enjoyed those river ice photos. An old friend who lives in St. Charles sent the link to me.

I expect Wib Myers would say the river was blocked, like it did at Miami so many times, and I'm guessing it was due to ice floes collecting to create the effect.

Did you happen to see the Howard County history link on the MoDot Web site during the rebuilding of the auto bridge at Glasgow? That was a fascinating writeup, I thought. If you missed it, I may be able to figure out how to put it up on here for you.

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Feb 10, 2010, at 10:40 PM

Ok slater...I see you have now reduced yourself to petty attacks.

Ok..for future reference...the gloves are coming off.

See ya next time mate.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Feb 10, 2010, at 10:36 PM

Slater

I certainly would not want you brain to go into information overload...so I try to keep it in small bits and pieces when ever possible.

I am sure there are many that would prefer me to stop posting information or comments here...for different reasons perhaps...but I am sure they are there.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Feb 10, 2010, at 10:34 PM

No, News, you do it better than any of the rest of us could.

rr3yv0, did you ever see the Jay Leno skit he called Mr. Brain? That was actually NewsAcross.

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Feb 10, 2010, at 10:31 PM

rr3yv0

Uh...do you have any idea what I do for a living or what my I majored in? I see you are new here.

Would anyone like to tell rr3yv0 what my professional qualifications are? Anyone? anyone...?

Yeah your right rr3yv0...there is no such thing as Neoclassical Economics, Classical Economics, or Keynesian Economics.

Yeah you got me there rr3yv0...I should have know I couldn't fool you. Your way too smart for me.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Feb 10, 2010, at 10:24 PM

No sir I don't even know MrXray. I don't get on here much but it is hard to resist a good debate with a liberal.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Feb 10, 2010, at 10:22 PM

rr3yv0

Are you related to MrXray?

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Feb 10, 2010, at 10:12 PM

news across

you are pretty wordy but you don't state cold hard facts like you demand from your opposition.

Neoclassical has to do with art not economic polices and lower taxes have proved to spur the economy. Reagan doubled the amount of tax dollars the government was taking in but he couldn't reign in the spending of a Democratic congress.

Told bold faced lies I don't know what you are referring to as a lie

Gave "a little bit" of liberty away. I don't know what "a little bit" of liberty is.

Spied on every American that has been going on for years they only think its OK for Democrats but not Republicans.

Tortured and executed prisoners. WHO?

Detained American citizens. WHO?

Gave away our budget surplus. TO WHO?

And who has set the record budget and the record deficit currently? Democrats

Guess who they are blaming those rascally Republicans and as long as they think someone will believe them it will continue.

They want to demonize the rich but I never worked for a poor person.

Give the tax break to the employer to hire more workers than you have more workers who pay taxes.

Tax the employer and they lay off workers who can't pay taxes and the tax cost is passed on in the price of consumer goods that the poor buy. Any way you slice it the poor and middle class will pay the taxes not directly to the government but in goods and services we buy.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Feb 10, 2010, at 9:58 PM

"...in an information-rich world, the wealth of information means a dearth of something else: a scarcity of whatever it is that information consumes. What information consumes is rather obvious: it consumes the attention of its recipients. Hence a wealth of information creates a poverty of attention and a need to allocate that attention efficiently among the overabundance of information sources that might consume it" (Simon 1971, p. 40-41)."

ME: And, this is our dilemma - we must decide how much of our poverty-stricken attention should we allocate to absorbing the overabundant postings by NewsAcross, and to a lesser extent, the postings of MrXray.

This is what Herbert Simon was talking about when he addressed the concept of Attention Economics. Sensory overload is the likely result, since humans lack the ability to determine how much of their attention resource shhould be focused on the subject (in this case posts by News and Xray) for the optimum benefit.

I believe I'll save my meager fund for information containing greater substance.

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Feb 10, 2010, at 9:21 PM

key word PROFESSIONAL on here we are all the same

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Feb 10, 2010, at 9:15 PM

news across

Hey you asked for cold hard facts and your still not happy maybe you need to read the book "Arguing with idiots".

A comedian once said you can't fix stupid I think he is right.

What is qualified or unqualified opinion? I think that's why it's called an OPINION. That would mean that my opinion is just as qualified as yours.

OPINION:

1. a belief or judgement that rest on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.

2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.

Thanks for the debate this is fun.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Feb 10, 2010, at 8:58 PM

Here's a disturbing article which adds to the reasons why a COMPREHENSIVE, EFFICIENT, and EFFECTIVE health-care system needs to be developed and implemented:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/10/health...

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Feb 10, 2010, at 7:49 PM

NanaDot

You are exactly correct. That is why most folks know the Republican Party as the Party of NO! Odd that how some folks would rather see the People's business stopped for no other reason that playing politics...playing politics with our lives.

I don't particularly like the Democrats either and I will be commenting on some of their failures as well...as I have done in the past. However, the American People certainly have a lot of good reasons to be angry with the Republicans.

When the Republicans controlled all 3 branches of governent...just a short time ago they managed to|

1.) Collapse our economy using neoclassical economic policies which have no empirical evidence that such policies have ever been successful.

2.) Told bold faced lies to the American People and lied to Congress about why they wanted to attack a 3rd World Country that was no imminent threat to the United States in violation of every principle and tradition we Americans hold dear.

3.) Attempted to trade "a little bit" of our liberty for some alleged security which we have yet to see.

4.) Spied on every single American citizen who uses a telephone, the internet, or the library in direct violation of Federal Law Title 50, Chapter 36 and in direct violation of our Constitutional protections under the 1st and 4th Amendments.

5.) Tortured and executed prisoners who had not even been convicted of the crimes they were accused of in direct violation of Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 118 of Federal Acts and in direct violation of the 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, and 14th Amendments to our Constitution as well as a slew of other Federal laws.

5.) Unlawfully detained American citizens, arrested in the United States and held incommunicado in a military prison for as long as 3 years with out even one day in court to ask why they were being held and on what charges in direct violation of Article I, and the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, and 14th Amendments of our Constitution. In addition, we have strong evidence to indicate they may have also tortured these American citizens while they were being held in said military prisons.

7.) Gave our National Budget surplus to the very richest Americans... the surplus which had been created under President Clinton... and then set yearly record deficits each and every year they controlled all 3 branches of Government spending and borrowing us into economic ruin.

...and those are just a few of the nasty, un-American, and/or illegal things the Republican Party did when they controlled all 3 branches of Government.

Now some of them want to convince us that was "some other" Republican Party... another bold faced Republican lie...and worse yet they dare to insult our intelligence by trying to blame the Republican failures on the Democrats.

...and they wonder why they lost massively in 2 elections in a row.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Feb 10, 2010, at 6:51 PM

rr3yv0

1.) I get my news from a variety of sources and I check them all independently.

2.) I am not interested in unqualified opinions and I stick to factual information.

3.) I do with my time as I please and I don't take my marching orders from you. You aren't nearly big enough or mean enough to make me do anything. So my time and what I do with it is not up for debate.

4.) No doubt about it both Republicans and Democrats flip flop which is why I vote only for 3rd party candidates these days. However, 2 wrongs never make a right. Democrats flip flopping does not justify Republican flip flopping.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Feb 10, 2010, at 5:54 PM

Oh I forgot these links show the hypocrisy with hard, cold, indisputable facts.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Feb 10, 2010, at 5:45 PM

news across

you need to quit getting your news from PMSNBC (no I did't accidentally add a letter). When you listen to one side you have one sided thinking.

you have way tooooooooooooo much time on your hands.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Wed, Feb 10, 2010, at 5:21 PM

Rachel Maddow details Republican flip-flops and hypocrisy with hard, cold, indisputable facts.

includes video

http://rawstory.com/2010/02/maddow-blast...

What Republicans say is not what Republicans do!

The facts leave no other conclusion.

Here are the facts folks...the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth!!

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Feb 10, 2010, at 4:48 PM

Insurer denies life-prolonging treatment to 5-year-old

http://rawstory.com/2010/02/countdown-fi...

While the Republicans and Democrats (aka...the Unitary Fascist Party) in the Senate obstruct our legislation, American children are dying.

We need to throw all the bums out of Congress.

We deserve better than this.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Feb 10, 2010, at 4:33 PM

"Student detained for toting Arabic flash cards sues police"

includes a video of the student describing his illegal arrest. No charges were ever filed against him. He broke no laws.

http://rawstory.com/2010/02/arabic-studi...

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Feb 10, 2010, at 3:34 PM

OKR,

Ya think you got it bad?

Naturally, as an American I am distraught at best at what appears to be a complete shut down of progress in the USA. Every single one of my family members..including my grown children and my Mother and Father are directly subject to the effects of the lack of legislation being passed. My boys pay outrages fees for inadequate medical insurance, they worry that with a defacto unemployment rate of 22% that if they should be laid off work they might end up living in tent city, and my parents are dependent on Social Security and Medicare...as well as fluctuations of a very unstable stock market, and as I get closer and closer to retirement age, I have to wonder if I will ever see one thin dime of my hard earned Social Security dollars that I paid in over a life-time.

Its enough to make a dutiful Son and Dad go nuts.

And as if it could not get worse, the Labour Party in Australia...the Australian version of the Democrats...who I worked hard to help get into power...are now about to finalize a law that censors the internet. Regular folks here are calling that the first step in censoring free speech. Here in Australia adult internet users won't be able to get to any site that is not fit for an 8 year old. It even filters out most political blogs and websites. I am not kidding, by the way. The People here are up in arms about it and I am shocked that the allegedly left leaning Labour Party would even consider such a thing...but there it is. Of course this is the death knell for the Labour Party. The right wing Liberal Party (In Australia the "Liberal Party" = conservative Party..I know its confusing lol), who is Australia's version of the Republicans, and the Party that almost brought Australia to its knees Just 3 short years ago with failed conservative policies, will almost certainly win by default. The election is at the end of this year.

Sometimes I feel like the whole World has gone crazy. We regular folks need a New Deal. It seems like we just keep trying the same things over and over again and expecting different results and all we really get in the end is the shaft. In my case, 2 shafts.

May God have mercy on us...cause we sure do need a break from the same old, same old.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Feb 10, 2010, at 3:20 PM

Well it's stupid to be so indifferent, lazy, etc. :)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Feb 10, 2010, at 2:44 PM

OKR - No, we're not stupid, we're lazy. Why would we expend the energy to find out some meaningful information about candidates when we can just accept their own self-promoting and distorted account of their qualifications?

We go from being lazy to being apathetic, telling ourselves why bother since our vote doesn't count for anything, and turning our backs on all that's wrong, hoping the problems will disappear without affecting us directly.

Many Americans have been directly affected because their backs have been turned, but their anger is prompted not by the fact that their countrymen have been bleeding them all along and haave now left them afloat in a leaky craft, but rather by their own indifference and self-absorption.

As that famous poster of the first Earth Day declared, "We have met the enemy, and he is us."

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Feb 10, 2010, at 2:16 PM

One example of what I meant in the previous comment.

http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/02/03/...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Feb 10, 2010, at 1:53 PM

The Republican Establishment misread the tea leaves when gloating, and cheering about the recent turn of events in the Massachusetts senate race for the seat of liberal icon Ted Kennedy. They should have been as chagrined as the losing Democratic Establishment.

The trend exhibited by the race had nothing to do with favoring Republicans over Democrats, nor vice versa.

It had everything to do with incumbency, in that case the incumbency of party, and the people's frustration with a government that we perceive to be one that would rather fight among them selves than be about the people's business. Incumbency that when listening to anyone, listen to the K Street shills for powerful corporate interests, foreign and domestic, as our representatives continue their never ending rat race for money, more money each new election cycle. That is the real business of the members of congress.

Many good long time members of congress, from each party, have over the years retired in disgust at this state of affairs.

The mood of the citizenry has turned ugly. Incumbency, long the most important factor in the effort to be reelected, may now be a liability that many will not overcome. Veterans in congress long used to an absence of substantial primary challengers, now will be hard pressed to even become their parties' candidate in the general election.

Both parties have become the Party of No. No solutions, no effective effort, and no agreement. They are responsible for we the people becoming the Citizenry of No. No repeat of what has been going on, no encores for those who have failed we the people.

Perhaps the greater lesson, one we may not have learned, is that though we rail against our representatives we the people have allowed, even encouraged the current state of affairs. As we "turn the rascals out" we are as likely as not to just anoint a new group of rascals. Are we stupid or what?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Feb 10, 2010, at 1:33 PM

Yesterday I posted photos of a frozen Mississippi River, today it's music. Former church choir member Ruth Hockaday would be delighted by this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6dTeQwf4...

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Feb 10, 2010, at 12:43 PM

OKR said this:

"I am wondering if the reason that the more outspoken comments are coming from former Saline Countians is that they (we) feel insulated from blow back because of the absence of physical proximity to the local political establishment? Surely there are more locals interested than those at a distance from the fray."

ME: You don't know me well enough to know that I can be outspoken when I feel the need, and this is one case where I've been in supporot of the local contingent who've already voiced their dissatisfaction with what's happened.

I didn't speak out because I'm 800 miles from the epicenter. Wrong is wrong, regardless of where it occurs and under what circumstances. In this case, the result creates greater impact due to the size of the community. Think of it in terms of your dog, which, let's say, weighs 50 pounds and loses 10 pounds - 20% of its body weight, and compare that to a cow weighing 500 pounds and losing 10 pounds. Quite a substantial change for the dog, but not for the cow.

If this "musical chairs" charade (as it was described by a reader) had occurred in, say, St. Louis or Kansas city, the majority of the public would most likely be unaware that anything irregular had even happened.

I suspect that many Marshall residents have no quarrel with Latimer's qualifications, but, as Missy said, it's shameful that a fair process wasn't followed. Not only is it shameful, but unethical as well, and that kind of activity, no matter where it occurs, borders on being criminal in another light.

What I've done here is no different from what I've done to describe my views on our federal government and some of its participants.

I have no reason to be concerned about filling a job in the Marshall city government except that in this instance there's been a willful and open violation of equal rights for somebody - whoever may have applied for the job, if it had been advertised and a proper conduct had been followed.

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Feb 10, 2010, at 10:33 AM

Re: The mayor issue: We received a response from the Mo. Ethics Commission stating that they only provide opinions when a formal complaint has been filed. The spokesperson noted that the FAQ refers to 4th-class cities and in Marshall's case, the rules of 3rd-class cities would apply, but she didn't say whether that would make a difference in the outcome.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Wed, Feb 10, 2010, at 10:27 AM

OldOwl, Gal66

I don't know, you may be surprised.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Feb 10, 2010, at 9:20 AM

Great cartoon WTF!!!!

OldOwlFan I have a good idea also :-)

-- Posted by Gal66 on Wed, Feb 10, 2010, at 9:14 AM

Woops WTF know who you are now!!!!!!!!

-- Posted by OldOwlFan on Wed, Feb 10, 2010, at 9:09 AM

Yeah missy08

its true

I would vote for Ron Paul. I think he would make a great President.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Feb 10, 2010, at 8:39 AM

news, SAY IT AIN'T SO! I actually voted for Paul in the primary.

Have a great day!

M

-- Posted by missy08 on Wed, Feb 10, 2010, at 8:03 AM

WTF

That is a great cartoon!!!!!!

Come on MDN print this persons work!!!!!!!!!

-- Posted by OldOwlFan on Wed, Feb 10, 2010, at 7:56 AM

Slater

I agree 100% with you that the Mayor/City Administrator situation certainly has the appearance of being a shady deal...not that it necessarily is a shady deal...but it certainly has shady overtones.

Of course I am viewing it from a long ways away and I am only expressing my personal opinion which is based only on how it appears to me. In no way am I saying it was legitimate or illegitimate. I just don't know enough about it one way or another to draw any conclusions.

However...having said that....

I certainly would not want to be one of the folks on the City Council in the next local election. I would not be a bit surprised to see them all replaced. And that is the purpose of elections...that is the voice of the People. Elections are the time the citizens review the performance of the elected officials and make a decision as to whether they want to keep them on the job or kick them to the curb.

I won't be coming down on one side or the other in this matter because it is the good people of Marshall who have to live with the consequences either way...not me. However, I do support democracy 100% and I would caution the City Council members that their unanimous vote to support a deal that even has the appearance of shady overtones may have sealed their political fate.

I will be watching this matter with great interest.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Feb 10, 2010, at 3:46 AM

Ron Paul: 'Neocon influence' is infiltrating tea parties

http://rawstory.com/2010/02/paul-caution...

Ron Paul is a Republican I can support!

He is honest and a man of integrity. I may not agree with him on all issues, but I can agree with him on most issues. It should be interesting if he decides he will run for President again in 2012

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Feb 10, 2010, at 2:18 AM

OKR it has been a beehive of activity...lol/

BTW...believe it or not...I am just an observer this time around.

However in other matters, I may be changing my latest to slogan to

"The Unitary Fascists have got to go."

Given the fact that the Democrats may be just as responsible for the Republican obstructionism as the Republicans in a sense... because they could stop it but they don't seem interested in stopping it. All they have to do is change Senate Rule 22 with a simple majority vote and end all filibusters by either party for all time. Thus I think this obstruction of the People's business may indeed be the result of an unspoken agenda between the 2 major Parties in the Senate to derail the Peoples business and in doing so create a defacto Fascist type Government...

http://www.rense.com/general37/char.htm

We do have other Parties in this Country. I wonder what would happen if all of us "regular folks" agreed to vote only for a middle of the road party the next 3 elections if for no other reason than to get rid of both the Democrats and the Republicans. I bet it would work.

THE UNITARY FASCIST PARTY HAS GOT TO GO!!

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Feb 10, 2010, at 1:07 AM

Gee so much being written...so little time. I just hurried back over from the discussion following the 'Kids Count' article that was published. By the way Mrxray I think I fully answered the questions you specifically addressed to me at that site.

Thank you Mr. Crump for staying on the "Mayor/Administrator Caper".

I am wondering if the reason that the more outspoken comments are coming from former Saline Countians is that they (we) feel insulated from blow back because of the absence of physical proximity to the local political establishment? Surely there are more locals interested than those at a distance from the fray.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Feb 9, 2010, at 11:25 PM

CORRECTION

In my previous comment I misstated that Senate rule 22 requires "50" votes to pass legislation et al.

That was a typo. Senate rule 22 requires all legislation to pass by 60 votes not "50."

also here is the link to the article...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35311402/ns/...

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Feb 9, 2010, at 10:21 PM

Senate Republicans successfully obstruct president's pick for labor board

Folks here is another reason the Senate needs to move on changing their rule 22 which requires the Senate to pass all legislation and approve of all appointees with a minimum of 50 votes.

We the People want democracy...not obstructionism.

...another good reason why...

THE PARTY OF NO! HAS TO GO!!...

...and so does Senate rule 22.

SENATOR MCCASKILL

WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO START LISTENING TO THE PEOPLE AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS RIDICULOUS RULE THAT PREVENTS LEGISLATION AND APPOINTMENTS FROM GOING TO A STRAIGHT UP OR DOWN VOTE??

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Feb 9, 2010, at 10:18 PM

Awesome WTF.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Feb 9, 2010, at 9:41 PM

Eric

Thanks for setting the record straight on the procedures...or lack there of.

As you may know, I have no dog in this race.

However, I think both sides of this issue have made some very valid points. Its times like these that folks look to the next local election to make their voices heard loud and clear by the City Council and the Mayors office. I am sure you would agree that its democracy that ultimately judges the wisdom of the decisions made by elected officials.

I will continue to follow this story with great interest and thanks for the very complete and thorough coverage of this ongoing issue.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Feb 9, 2010, at 9:35 PM

Eric-

Thanks for visiting with Mr. Stouffer, as you said you would do. My problem with this is the matter of fact attitude that Ms. Latimer, Ms. Alexander and the council seem to have. According to your article Ms. Latimer resigns, Ms. Alexander is appointed Mayor and Ms. Latimer is appointed City Administrator after Mr. Duval's motion and subsequent unanimous council vote. Unbelievably, the only discussion on the matter was after the vote. By the way, how much are we going to pay her? How about 62,000 which is 93% of the salary budgeted for her predecessor. He had ONLY 25 years experience on the job.

Let's face it. They held more discussion prior to their ridiculous vote to deny a perfectly legitimate request from the Saline County Fair Board for a liquor license than they did on this mundane piece of business. Then again, I'm sure that all of these discussions were held well prior to the meeting, outside of the chamber meeting room.

-- Posted by Bcat on Tue, Feb 9, 2010, at 9:33 PM

Slater,

Thanks for the link to the pictures of the frozen Mississippi. I remember pictures taken in a serious winter storm late 60s in Cleveland Ohio of Lake Erie. There had been high winds followed by rapidly falling temperatures. The pictures of the frozen waves looked like Japanese prints from the late 1800s.

My mother born in Glasgow, MO in 1909 remembered the Missouri river freezing over allowing horse drawn sleighs and ice skating.

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Tue, Feb 9, 2010, at 9:29 PM

Thanks News,

I really appreciate all comments good and bad.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Feb 9, 2010, at 9:29 PM

WTF

That was a really funny cartoon. You are very talented, My drawing never got beyond stickmen lol.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Feb 9, 2010, at 9:26 PM

Thanks Slater,

I'll post more on local issues as ideas and time permits.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Feb 9, 2010, at 9:16 PM

Ha! Ha! - Good one, WTF!

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Feb 9, 2010, at 9:10 PM

Mayor Latimer Cartoon

Ok, I know it's rough. I never bothered to do the finsihed version as I could not convince MDN to print it.

http://www.imagechicken.com/viewpic.php?...

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Feb 9, 2010, at 9:04 PM

Editor Crump - So, you're saying the city employs arbitrary methods for advertising job openings, and arbitrary methods when determining if interviews of qualified applicants will be conducted to select the person for a position?

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Feb 9, 2010, at 8:16 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
I'm saying the city ordinances -- at least the ones posted online that refer to the city adminstrator position -- do not specify the detailed procedures some people expect. You could call it arbitrary or you could call it unspecific, whichever you prefer.

The council appears to have complied with the ordinance's requirements but not with the unwritten requirements of the people. What many people expect is a procedure that is common in business and government -- not an unreasonable expectation, but not a specified requirement, either.

Maybe the ordinance is in need of amendment!

news across,

I think normal "expectations" might be a better term. City ordinances don't prescribe a procedure for selecting a city administrator. Unless I'm missing something, there's no mention of advertising or interviewing or anything. Just: "The city administrator shall be employed by a majority of the members elected to the city council, with the approval of the mayor."

It's pretty clear that some people expect a fairly specific procedure to be followed. Just wanted to note that the selection process did not violate the ordinance.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Tue, Feb 9, 2010, at 8:04 PM

Yes missy

That sounds perfectly reasonable. I can certainly see why folks would be curious why normal procedures might not have been followed.

I know it would have sparked my interest.

It should be interesting to see how it all turns out.

Thanks missy!

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Feb 9, 2010, at 7:49 PM

news,

at the risk of opening a can of "neocon" worms --

The CA appointment is controversial because --

1. as pointed out by commish -- yes, Mayor Latimer had access to the applications received

2. no one is aware of any advertising for this position -- or at least they are not saying if they are

3. the filing date for elected city positions had passed

As I have stated in my other posts -- I like Connie. I think she will do the best job that she is capable of doing. I wish they had advertised, accepted applications, conducted interviews, and then if she was the best for the job, by all means, she should have the job.

M

-- Posted by missy08 on Tue, Feb 9, 2010, at 7:42 PM

News - I didn't apply for the job, nor did any of my family. :)

As Commish said, the legal and ethical elements are distinct, and my view, based on reading the news accounts, is that this switch is unethical as it appears to anyone looking from the outside.

When I first started following it, I was reminded of another Missourian (around 90 miles to the west) who favored backroom deals.

No doubt Latimer is paper qualified to hold the position, but I can't see how this was fair to other potential applicants.

Based on the way this matter has been handled, I'd urge the voters to dig into the details of the imminent school bond election. The property owner whose land a new school could occupy might just be handsomely rewarded for parting with it.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Feb 9, 2010, at 7:34 PM

"Letters show GOP stimulus duplicity:

Republicans who blasted stimulus were quite eager to fund their own pork."

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2010/feb...

My, my, my isn't this interesting...

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Feb 9, 2010, at 7:24 PM

commish

Thanks for the response.

Well certainly this will probably be an issue in the next city-wide elections. Its interesting to watch.

Thanks again mate.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Feb 9, 2010, at 7:19 PM

There's legal and there is ethical. The Latimer appointment may have been legal, but it looks unethical to me and many others. Latimer was still in office while being considered for the job, and she could have been involved in the screening of other applicants (if there really were any). The school district changed their policies in this area after the McCorkle fiasco. Too bad our city still allows these back room deals.

-- Posted by raysfan on Tue, Feb 9, 2010, at 7:12 PM

Well this local Mayor/ City Administrator issue is interesting.

I won't be getting involved because I don't live right in Marshall anymore and this issue is best settled by the folks who are directly affected by it. However, I do think some folks who also don't live in Marshall have provided some helpful information.

Can anyone tell me if its possible that if this is more a partisan reaction from some sore losers? or is it a legitimate concern from both sides of the aisle of possible ethics violations?

anybody?

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Feb 9, 2010, at 7:08 PM

Missy - the city attorney said it doesn't violate city ordinance, but apparently no one bothered to ask the state people if it's okay. That's been my point.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Feb 9, 2010, at 6:58 PM

What is an Advisory Opinion?

ä¤Issued by the Commission upon written request

ä¤Made by any person who would be directly affected by the application of law

ä¤Opinion can act as a defense against prosecution

ä¤All identifying information about the requestor is redacted

This is from the Missouri Ethics Commission web site. Ms. Latimer is savvy. As she is experienced it is likely she contacted them early on for an advisory opinion. Especially considering that their opinion, whether ultimately found to be valid, or not, could be used as a defense against prosecution. Also if she later had determined that she did not want to pursue the opportunity, "all identifying information about the requestor is redacted".

I think we will be hearing from her shortly just so.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Feb 9, 2010, at 6:57 PM

Slater,

I do know that both the new CA and the new Mayor have responded to letters that have been received questioning the "process". Both defended the appointment.

M

-- Posted by missy08 on Tue, Feb 9, 2010, at 6:51 PM

Missy - thanks for the links. Yep, plenty of comments, but I didn't see any reporting by the prress that the move is legal.

OKR - I was hopeful that my prior posts implying the questions of the ethical and legal aspects of the switch would have been addressed by the press.

It's now 9 days later and still no statement? Certainly not my idea of the way to run a railroad.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Feb 9, 2010, at 6:45 PM

Slater and OK (I think),

There has been a lot of posting regarding the appointment of the mayor to the CA job -- most of it is here. There is some from earlier stories when she was still "considering". These are listed from most recent to oldest....

http://www.marshallnews.com/story/160726...

http://www.marshallnews.com/story/160671...

http://www.marshallnews.com/story/160600...

Have a great evening.

M

-- Posted by missy08 on Tue, Feb 9, 2010, at 6:00 PM

"OKR - I didn't see any notification by the city that Latimer's move is legal, and that was my point in stirring up comment about it.

Most likely it's legal, but the silence coupled with the perception makes for a questionable action."

-- (Posted by Slater on Tue, Feb 9, 2010, at 5:22 PM)

Slater I am sure that Ms. Latimer will address the issue forthwith. I think she knows it is in her interest to do so at this special time when citizens are outraged across the nation at the lack of governmental trasparency. I think she is also sensitive to the ramifications of the unusual circumstance she has created for herself, and hence will be the first to address it.

I can not imagine a rationale for remaining silent in the circumstance at hand.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Feb 9, 2010, at 5:59 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
I talked with Connie Latimer and Don Stouffer today. Mr. Stouffer confirmed that the procedure followed by Mrs. Latimer to resign as mayor and accept the city manager job correctly followed city ordinances.

Mrs. Latimer said if she thought the move violated any law she would not have accepted the position. Mr. Stouffer, likewise, said if he thought there were any legal problems with the move, he would have advised the mayor and council about them.

City ordinances indicate the choice of city administrator is up to the council. The council is supposed to choose the person it deems best for the job, someone with public administration education or appropriate experience.

We have not yet gotten clarification from the ethics commission and city officials have not had a chance to respond to the opinion posted here earlier. We hope to have more information Wednesday.

rr3yv0

You have not addressed any of the questions I had asked regarding your comment nor have you provided any links.

Frankly, I think the problem is the conservatives who have no solutions.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Feb 9, 2010, at 5:55 PM

news across

You didn't address or answer anything I was talking about so I am not going to waste my time.

Like I said if you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem.

As long as you feel you are contributing then that is what matters.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Tue, Feb 9, 2010, at 5:39 PM

Slater

Thank you for posting the link to the photos.

I showed them to my wife and she was amazed by the spectacle of a main river being frozen over completely.

Aussies really have no concept of Winter the way those of us from the North American Midwest do. Of course they know what Winter is...or as I like to call it...real Winter...but few have actually experienced it other than an occasional dusting of snow in the Snowy Mountains.

Thanks mate!

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Feb 9, 2010, at 5:23 PM

OKR - I didn't see any notification by the city that Latimer's move is legal, and that was my point in stirring up comment about it.

Most likely it's legal, but the silence coupled with the perception makes for a questionable action.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Feb 9, 2010, at 5:22 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
The "silence" is due to the fact that we're trying to do necessary research and get comments and clarification from appropriate authorities. Takes time. I'm interested in getting the information right, even if it takes more time.

Great pics Slater.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Feb 9, 2010, at 5:16 PM

http://www.mec.mo.gov/WebDocs/PDF/Compla...

It is a situation that the M.E.C. would likely have an interest, if the situation were to be called to their attention.

Perhaps Ms. Latimer will be proactive, and alert the M.E.C. herself. Perhaps she contacted them prior to applying for her administrative position? In fact I bet she did.

After all whether, or not there was a conflict of interest would have crossed her mind at the time she first contemplated applying for the position. She is a smart person, and she would have researched the question, and probably checked with M.E.C. before further pursuing the job.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Feb 9, 2010, at 4:49 PM

After you've finished pondering whether your former mayor was legally entitled to the city administrator job, have a look at these photos which you may find interesting, or even somewhat remarkable:

http://breakpointtrades.com/controls/pre...

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Feb 9, 2010, at 4:44 PM

Some interesting research there alphadog regarding the MEC and the current Marshall mayor/city administrator fisaco. Though there appears to be a disconnect between the issue of third class versus fouth class city status, seems like resolving this item would be easy enough via an inquiry to the MEC with the corrected question. I wonder if Mr. Stouffer checked this aspect out last week when the Marshall-News asked for his comment on the whole affair?

-- Posted by oceanlord49 on Tue, Feb 9, 2010, at 3:58 PM

Sec. 105-454 (M.E.C.)

5) Perform any service for consideration, during one year after termination of his or her office or employment, by which performance he or she attempts to influence a decision of any agency of the state, or a decision of any political subdivision in which he or she was an officer or employee or over which he or she had supervisory power, except that this provision shall not be construed to prohibit any person from performing such service and receiving compensation therefor, in any adversary proceeding or in the preparation or filing of any public document or to prohibit an employee of the executive department from being employed by any other department, division or agency of the executive branch of state government. For purposes of this subdivision, within ninety days after assuming office, the governor shall by executive order designate those members of his or her staff who have supervisory authority over each department, division or agency of state government for purposes of application of this subdivision. The executive order shall be amended within ninety days of any change in the supervisory assignments of the governor's staff. The governor shall designate not less than three staff members pursuant to this subdivision; ( the intent of this one is probably in regard to lobbying, at least if viewed from a strict constructionist position)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Feb 9, 2010, at 3:04 PM

is mr. harris really coming back?

-- Posted by ballin on Tue, Feb 9, 2010, at 12:46 PM

You're onto it now, Alphadog!

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Feb 9, 2010, at 12:29 PM

Has anyone seen this? This is a FAQ to the MEC, I cross cehcked with what I could find on public sites on the internet and the only thing I could find was Wikapedia "not really a valid source" but it listed Marshall as a 4th class city which leads me to believe this law applies to Marshall. I'm still conducting research, will update when I have more information.

Missouri Ethics Commission

Conflict of Interest

Frequently Asked Questions

This is intended only as a guide to aid in understanding the duties and responsibilities of the Missouri Ethics

Commission. For the Law's complete requirements, consult the law itself, codified in Chapter 105.450 through

105.467 of the Revised Statutes of Missouri.

Created: August 19, 2009

5. Question: Can a Mayor of a 4th Class City also be employed as the City Administrator? (Missouri Ethics Commission Advisory Opinion 2008.09.CI.008)

Answer: No, the Mayor could not retain his elected position and also be employed as City Administrator, and the Mayor is prohibited from assuming the position for one year from leaving office.

-- Posted by alphadog on Tue, Feb 9, 2010, at 12:13 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Marshall is a third-class city, according to the Official Manual of Missouri, 2009-2010 edition. Whether that makes any difference in terms of ethical expections, I don't know.

Wheresthelove - Yep, we learned just what I expected.

I've posted questions here from time to time, most seeking what I thought was useful information, and all but two or three have been ignored - you and John Q and Kathy Fairchild are the ones I can name who've taken the time to reply.

I've been intrigued by the perceived need of some that Marshall needs a runway at its airport to accommodate jet aircraft. I believe the former mayor was a proponent of that expansion, along with the Saline County Development squad. Now, I recall that the city contributed approximately $350,000-$500,000 to the runway project, money which I feel could have been better spent (e.g., that would've paid for the courthouse renovation, without a sales tax increase, and yes I know it's a county project, for all of you who're poised to jump on my example).

The craftiness employed by some of those installed in various governmental positions bears close scrutiny by the citizenry when their signals indicate they want us to believe they have all the answers for every question.

One contradiction to their belief is apparent by taking a drive around the square any afternoon - you don't have to worry about pedestrians since there aren't any.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Feb 9, 2010, at 11:52 AM

Yes Slater...we got alot of things made oh so much clearer didn't we.....much like these organizations themselves. Have a great day!!

-- Posted by wheresthelove on Tue, Feb 9, 2010, at 10:53 AM

A couple of years ago I happened onto an article about the discovery of certain physiological changes occurring in the human brain which seem to indicate a shifting toward a greater degree of social isolationism.

Well, this caught my eye since one essential need of humans is positive social interaction.

If you have an interest in social psychology, you'll find some informative readings in this link:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/200...

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Feb 9, 2010, at 10:48 AM

Wheresthelove - Thanks for your response about the city administration.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Feb 9, 2010, at 9:53 AM

God Bless you Rep. John Murtha.

You served out Nation with great honor and distinction.

You will be sorely missed Sir!

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Feb 9, 2010, at 12:49 AM

OKR

Thanks for that link. That is very interesting factual information.

Also, I agree with one of the commentators on that site who says,

"There are no Democratic or Republican parties anymore. There is only the Unitary Fascism Party."

We The People Need a New Deal!!

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Feb 8, 2010, at 11:53 PM

Ronald Reagan's great accomplishments:

Unemployment rate: 1982...10.8%, 1983...10.4%

Sold missiles to Iran in direct violation of Federal Law. Claimed he couldn't remember if he had or not while he was in office then admitted it after he was out of office.

Fired all the air traffic controllers rather than giving them an extra 10 minute break...resulting in years of dramatically increased airline crashes resulting in thousands of deaths.

Refused to give American Troops in Lebanon ammunition to defend themselves. Finally caved in to pressure from Democrats to do something more. He then issued 3 bullets each to the American Peace keeping troops.

Gave complete amnesty and citizenship to millions of illegal Hispanic immigrants.

Ordered the CIA to create a resistance group to the Sandinista...the elected Government in Nicaragua...when the CIA reported back that there was no resistance there because people were happy...he authorized millions to be secretly handed out as a bribe to create a resistance force among the former National Guard Generals.

Illegally funneled both private and public money to the Contras in Nicaragua in direct violation of Federal Law.

Those are just some of the highlights. Oh yeah...Reagan...now there was a winner!!

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Feb 8, 2010, at 11:44 PM

HEADLINE: Toyota Recall Accelerates Unexpectedly. (Stolen from The Ironic Times)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Feb 8, 2010, at 11:31 PM

And MyVoiceIsHeard do you realize that by the time Ronald Reagan was done the only Hope other than Bob remaining was false, and the only remaining Cash that belonged to the people was Johnny?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Feb 8, 2010, at 11:22 PM

Check this link for a great little comment as to how Joe Biden could end the congressional stalemate that is caused by the filibuster. Concise, and easily understandable it is worth a read by any who are scratching their heads as to why we have a do nothing congress.

Maybe it is time we the people put some pressure on good old Joe to flip the switch that will end the people's frustration, and get America rolling again. http://papadablogger.blogspot.com/2010/0...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Feb 8, 2010, at 11:07 PM

Johnny Cash was a great liberal who opposed the Vietnam war, supported social programs for the poor and middle class, believed in helping the downtrodden, supported prison reform that focused on rehabilitation rather than punishment, opposed racism, and strongly supported civil rights.

To mention him in the same breath as Ronald Reagan is tantamount to mentioning Thomas Jefferson in the same breath with King George.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Feb 8, 2010, at 11:00 PM

Anyone realize when Ronald Reagan was president we had Johnny Cash and Bob Hope, now that Obama is president we have no cash or no hope just a bunch of change!!

-- Posted by MyVoiceIsHeard on Mon, Feb 8, 2010, at 10:52 PM

Nicely done News.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Feb 8, 2010, at 10:22 PM

I'm glad to see news across is here to set the record straight about capitalism and civil rights. This TEA party is now advocating for a literacy test for voting, this is the same tactic the right wingers used in the past to supress the African-American in the past. Where have all the moderate republicans went? Most have abandoned their principles just to spread hate proganda against the current administration. I have noticed that a few posts show that a certain few have a Fox news education which can be noticed by empty hearted thoughts they post. Warning if someone suggest that social programs hurt the person they are trying to help they probably listen to the radical right wing news media. These people suggest we should just let them suffer and that will teach them. Go right wing crazies!

-- Posted by Headshrinker on Mon, Feb 8, 2010, at 10:21 PM

rr3yv0

When did Al Sharpton or Jessie Jackson make racist remarks about minorities? If they did, did they disavow those remarks? Did they make an apology, and vow to not make that same mistake again? What's the FULL STORY on that? Please include objective links to your sources of information so we can check them for accuracy and qualification...cause I think you just made that comment off the top of your head without any facts to back it up. Granted these individuals have made mistakes...but to call them "some of the biggest racist that get media attention" as you do, seems unfair and the exact opposite of the facts. In addition, in no way do these individuals represent the entire left nor are they our spokesmen under any conditions. And since they are only 2 individuals out of tens of millions on the left...to cite them as examples of the left would be, and is, quite misleading...unlike the tens of thousands of conservatives in the Teaparty 9/12 march who seemed perfectly comfortable with their racist members.

As to conservative racists...well...do you really think segregation was a liberal idea? If yes, again please include links proving this conclusion and leading to no other possible conclusion.

You say that the Democrats have been "have been in charge of our federal government for the majority of the last 50 years." How did you arrive at that conclusion? That sounds like some pretty fuzzy math to me. Further, of the Democrats in Congress, how many are conservatives and how many are liberals? Do you understand or even know of a qualified political definition of these terms...with out going to issues? Do you understand the difference? Do you think we only have 2 political parties or that each party only has conservatives or only has liberals? If so, please include the links to your objective sources so we can check them for accuracy and qualification.

As to many Republicans being racist...did you miss the signs referring to Obama as a "N" at the Palin mob rallies during the last election? Did you miss the racist comments made by Republicans at the McCain/Palin election events? When did Palin disavow those remarks? When did she ask the racists to stop supporting her? There were far more than just 2.... Did you miss Republicans referring to then Senator Obama as an "Arab" or a "muslim?" at these rallies and since he is neither, didn't that strike you as an odd thing to say about him...and if it had been true, why would that matter? Did you miss the fact that Bobby May, V.A. McCain/Palin Campaign Chairman, was fired for writing a highly racist editorial which he never apologized for or even disavowed in any way (http://www.zimbio.com/2008+Presidential+Candidates/articles/13643/Bobby+May+V+McCain+Palin+Campaign+Chairman)? If you did miss these facts please scroll down to the list of links I posted and view/hear them for yourself.

As to opposition to civil rights...yes conservative, Southern Democrats certainly joined with conservative Republicans to oppose civil rights...46 years ago. I don't know of any liberals of either party ever opposing civil rights...which brings me to my point...opposing civil rights is strictly a conservative idea...not a liberal idea.

If you read what I and other liberals write and say, you will find that it is not the Republican Party that we oppose..nor is it the Democrat Party... but rather we oppose the conservative concepts and philosophies that are encapsulated within the policies of those members of those parties that embrace conservatism. It is this nasty, self-righteous, oppressive philosophy of conservatism that we oppose...not the parties themselves.

As regards social programs that assist the poor and the middle class.... Such things are only necessary in a capitalist economy. Many of us on the left oppose capitalism for this and many other reasons. In a socialist economy there are no such programs because everyone shares in the wealth of the Nation equally. In a socialist economy, all adult, able bodied men and women work and have jobs and all people share in the National wealth which belongs to the People...not to just 1% of the population. Now of course I don't have the time to explain how a socialist economy works with in the limited space and time I have here in this forum...but we can certainly discuss it in greater detail at another time.

Oh and by the way, do you also oppose corporate welfare as well?...because conservatives do not oppose corporate welfare. They think welfare that goes to corporations is fine but welfare that goes to the poor who desperately need it...especially when we have high unemployment...is a bad thing...according to you and your fellow travelers, the conservatives. Do you see any contradictions in that conservative approach...and do you think that its hypocritical to say you support free market ideas and then say you support corporate welfare and government subsidies for corporations all in the same breath as conservatives do?

As to your implying that some how the poor are lazy and choose to be poor and are the cause of their own poverty...that is not supported by any evidence that I am aware of. The poor tend to work the hardest and lowest paying jobs our society has to offer -- often working very long hours for very little in return -- and everyone that consumes is a tax payer..everyone. Don't you think that sales taxes count as taxes? How about direct and indirect property taxes? Implying that our working class is lazy and poor because they choose to be, as many conservatives do, is absurd, offensive, and contrary to the facts...and probably based in ignorance.

I know I certainly worked very hard all my life and yes now I have a lot to show for it, but I was lucky. I had government programs that assisted me in getting a good education, finding good jobs, and thanks to the opportunities afforded me by those social programs and my own hard work, I am now financially independent in my mid 50s...far in advance of retirement age. I got off my duff at the age of 10 years old when I delivered newspapers on one of the biggest newspaper routes in Chicago...6 days a week, including holidays, often times in snow 3 feet deep with temperatures well below zero, and all for $11.00 a month...and I have been working hard ever since. So please, keep your empty opinion of those of us that started at the bottom of society and worked our way up...with the assistance of government social programs...out of your empty statements.

Working hard to bring awareness of racism to the forefront of society is something I work hard at everyday. You can read my comments here and in other places on the net. In addition, I am very active politically in not just one but 2 countries.

Perhaps sir/madam it is you who needs to get off your duff and start doing something to stop the racism. Perhaps its you who should join us on the left who fight this battle everyday to make America...and the World...a better place to live.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Feb 8, 2010, at 9:46 PM

I don't understand why conservatives are depicted as racist when some of the biggest racist are people within there own race. For instance Rev Al Sharpton and Rev Jesse Jackson are some of the biggest racist that get media attention. They could care less about you or me all they care about is their money. The Republicans are often depicted as racist when over the years members of the Democratic party were against civil rights. They also have perpetuated the welfare or entitlements that have destroyed the black family and any other families that have 2 and 3 generations that don't produce anything but more kids to live on the hard earned dollar of the taxpayer. If racism and poverty was going to be fixed the Democratic Party should have fixed it by now because they have been in charge of our federal government for the majority of the last 50 years. If they would actually fix all of the problems that we have then they would lose their voter base because people should be independent instead of dependent on the hard earned resources of someone else. Instead of accusing people of being racist get off your duff and do something for yourself or better yet do something to help someone else because if you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem.

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Mon, Feb 8, 2010, at 7:53 PM

Meghan McCain: "Tea Party represents 'innate racism'"

http://rawstory.com/2010/02/meghan-mccai...

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Feb 8, 2010, at 5:01 PM

"Fact check: Palin's claims in Tea Party speech debunked"

http://rawstory.com/2010/02/palins-natio...

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Feb 8, 2010, at 4:56 PM

Regarding the Teaparty....

1.) Poll tests like the one they suggest we use have a long history of being used to disenfranchise African-American voters. That is a historical fact.

2.) Many Teaparty members and Palin supporters are openly racist and if you will scroll down and check the many, many, many links I provided you in my earlier post, you can view and hear just how racist these Teaparty members are from their own mouths and signs they created.

I guess you could argue that if we required everyone to wear white sheets and hoods similar to that of the KKK when we vote, that in and of itself is not racist. I guess you could say, "hey they are only white sheets...a kind of style...an article of clothing"...but that sure would feel like a Klan outfit to me.

I am not the one who discriminated against African Americans using poll tests, and I am not the one that told the many racist members of the Teaparty to use racist slogans and make racist statements at their 9/12 march, and I didn't suggest they use them at the Palin mob rallies during the last election.

Frankly, it sounds like some folks want to attack me because I posted the links. Isn't that a lot like attacking the messenger because they don't like the message?

I guess no matter how much lipstick the conservatives try to put on this Teaparty pig...it is still a pig.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Feb 8, 2010, at 4:46 PM

mrxray

Actually...the power to make recess appointments is a Constitutional power given to the President by our Founding Fathers. Article II, Section 2, line 3 states,

"The President shall have Power to fill up all Vacancies that may happen during the Recess of the Senate, by granting Commissions which shall expire at the End of their next Session. "

If you think our Constitution is corrupt, that is your prerogative, but I doubt you will find many Americans that will agree with that.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Feb 8, 2010, at 4:21 PM

mrx and AF,

I'm sure you read the exchange. Isn't it amazing that some are so busy trying to burn down the forest they can't see that they are a tree?

Those posts regarding racism were hysterical and then just for fun, let's throw in a comment regarding sexual preference.

And, if one isn't Democrat "enough", we'll just say they are conservative and toss him over.

Too funny!!!!

Hope y'all are having a great, though cold and snowy, day!

M

-- Posted by missy08 on Mon, Feb 8, 2010, at 4:14 PM

news across... regarding recess appointments... you continue over and over to point out the exact same flaws that anyone else has been in our political system. It is corrupt and not about the good of the nation and only about the politicians keeping their power while the citizens apathetically pay little attention.

The only difference is that you have an extreme LEFT leaning and continually make statements that prove you do not have any semblance of an open mind, while you try to attribute things to me based on your hatred and biased beliefs.

You will NEVER find a post that I have posted where I have said I am in total agreement or even agree with the Repub party the majority of the time. I, unlike YOU, can see the flaws in ALL politicians of both parties and in their actions and can take a realistic look at thinks.

But to each their own... lol

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Feb 8, 2010, at 2:34 PM

Newsacross...

I see you are purposefully echoing the liberal media in the distortion of the comments by the speaker at the Tea Party... NO where did he say that any race would be required to take the test while the other races would be exempt. LOL

You are just proving what a hypocritically and biased person you are that cannot have intellectual discussions with someone who has opposing view points from you and that you get YOUR thoughts from the liberal media outlets.

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Feb 8, 2010, at 2:29 PM

yomomma poated: "Anybody notice that Quiznos has locked the doors!?"

I guess they didn't cash their stimulus check.

-- Posted by AF Brat on Mon, Feb 8, 2010, at 11:54 AM

Anybody notice that Quiznos has locked the doors!?

-- Posted by yomomma on Mon, Feb 8, 2010, at 9:55 AM

A great political commercial. Especially about the $90 million to benefit his relatives.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8Fzp2Ur5...

-- Posted by AF Brat on Mon, Feb 8, 2010, at 9:19 AM

"I guess if you don't want to see something, you won't."

Right there.

BTW, SAINTS!

Have a great day!

M

-- Posted by missy08 on Mon, Feb 8, 2010, at 7:13 AM

Palin: "War with Iran would help Obama's re-election"

http://rawstory.com/2010/02/palin-war-wi...

So now Palin thinks its ok to use the blood of our children as a political tool for a person to get re-elected. She says she thinks that is acceptable.

Folks these neocons are out of control.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Feb 7, 2010, at 11:56 PM

...and speaking of the folks who exported our manufacturing base and our jobs to China...

In wake of the Recent Supreme Court ruling, Wall Street CEOs (fat-cats) form conservative 'action tank'

http://rawstory.com/2010/02/wake-ruling-...

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Feb 7, 2010, at 9:34 PM

"China's hawks demand cold war on the US"

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/wo...

As we grow weaker, the Chinese grow stronger.

I am sure the Chinese would love to thank all Americans who purchase Chinese made products, Walmart, and of course the conservatives of both major parties who gave our manufacturing base...and our good paying manufacturing jobs...to China!

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Feb 7, 2010, at 9:29 PM

missy08

I guess if you don't want to see something, you won't.

As to Clinton (a conservative Democrat) and other conservatives being adulters...you don't have to look far...

...Newt Ginrich, Bob Barr, Rudolf Gulliani, President George H.W. Bush, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, Sen. John McCain, Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, and many, many more.

http://www.pensitoreview.com/2006/06/05/...

Its not hard to miss anything in plain sight if you just close your eyes tight enough.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Feb 7, 2010, at 7:31 PM

lest we forget....

1.) "Racism at a Palin Rally in PA"

with video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKUovpF9L...

2.) 9.12 DC TEA PARTY - MARCH FOOTAGE WITH INTERVIEWS

with video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUPMjC9mq...

3.) Racist Obama Billboard Causes Outrage

http://current.com/items/89393772_racist...

4.) Bigotry at McCain/Palin Rally

with video

http://beltwayblips.dailyradar.com/video...

5.) Radical, Racist Signs Featured At 9/12 March

with photos

http://www.democraticunderground.com/dis...

6.) McCain's Racist Surge

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joe-cutbir...

7.) Racism at Republican Rally

includes video interviews with racist conservative attendees

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRqcfqiXC...

8.) Obama Hatred At McCain-Palin Rallies: "Terrorist!" "Kill Him!"

With Video

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/06...

9.) "Oh, Those Racist Republicans...

How The GOP Handled The First Black President"

http://www.ohthoseracistrepublicans.com/

10.) Bobby May, V.A. McCain/Palin Campaign Chairman Fired For Racist Editorial

http://www.zimbio.com/2008+Presidential+...

As we see this vocal minority we call "conservatives" making headway politically, its very important that we remember who they are.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Feb 7, 2010, at 7:21 PM

Jeez, here I am confused again... I've read much of the transcripts from the "Tea Party" and I can't find any place that implies that a specific group would be unable to vote if a basic test was required. Not anywhere. That leads me to believe that "assuming" that a specific group not be able to pass the test is a very racist assumption to make.

And, as with all groups, there are radicals amongst them. I don't "assume" that all liberals are adulterers just because of Bill Clinton, etc. I don't "assume" that all liberals are arrogant... and condescending...

Ooops. Halftime show. Gotta go!

M

-- Posted by missy08 on Sun, Feb 7, 2010, at 7:02 PM

"Tea Party opening speaker suggests law that kept blacks be kept from voting be reinstated"

http://rawstory.com/2010/02/tea-party-op...

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/tea-party-firew...

http://www.crmvet.org/info/lithome.htm

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Feb 7, 2010, at 6:34 PM

"Christians claim hate crimes law an effort to 'eradicate' their beliefs"

http://rawstory.com/2010/02/christians-c...

I think thee doth prostesth too much.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Feb 7, 2010, at 6:30 PM

Ya know folks,

I would have a lot more respect for that Palin bunch...you know those ultra-right wing Republicans that are calling themselves "The Teaparty,"... if they would just at least be honest and admit they are a bunch of Racists...'cause that is what they are.

I remember their signs at the Palin mob-rallies during the election when they were carrying their signs referring to the President with the "N" word, calling him an Arab, and other various racist remarks...including the one that one of their keynote speakers made in Nashville this weekend calling for a return to Jim Crow laws.

I still wouldn't like them any more than I do now...but at least if they would admit they are hardcore racists, I could regard them as being honest. As it is now, I regard them as lying racists.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Feb 7, 2010, at 5:55 PM

NanaDot

God Bless you!!

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Feb 7, 2010, at 5:37 PM

Those pesky Republicans, they do have a plan.

"The plan ensures UNIVERSAL ACCESS to affordable health insurance by restructuring the tax code, allowing all Americans to secure an affordable health plan that best suits their needs, and shifting the control and ownership of health coverage away from the government and employers to individuals.

"It provides a refundable tax credit--$2,300 for individuals and $5,700 for families--to purchase coverage (FROM ANOTHER STATE if they so choose) and KEEP IT WITH THEM if they move or change jobs. It establishes transparency in health-care price and quality data, so this critical information is readily available before someone needs health services.

"State-based high risk pools will make affordable care available to those WITH PRE-EXISTING CONDITIONS. In addition to the tax credit, Medicaid will provide SUPPLEMENTAL payments to low-income recipients so they too can obtain the health coverage of their choice and no longer be consigned to the stigmatized, sclerotic care that Medicaid has come to represent."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424...

-- Posted by AF Brat on Sun, Feb 7, 2010, at 12:39 PM

Slater? Thoughts on Marshall City Government? I noticed you had replied on here about it with no responses, just the same back and forth.

-- Posted by wheresthelove on Sun, Feb 7, 2010, at 8:07 AM

oh...ah...xray....

Don't look now...but ah....when the Senate goes into recess...that means when they go home for a couple of weeks and that is coming real, real soon...

...President Obama will exercise his authority granted to him by Article II, Section 2, line 3 of the United States Constitution...and make recess appoints in all 70 cases...lol...you know, like Bush did? lol lol lol...

Remember xray, what goes around, comes around.

See you in the funny pages mate!!

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Feb 7, 2010, at 6:06 AM

xray...i didn't write the article. i just posted it. the reader reads it, the reader decides.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Feb 7, 2010, at 4:23 AM

news across...

so you have a problem with Shelby holding up votes for appointees, but you dont have a problem with Obama and his minions working the Cornhusker kickback in the health care bill with Neb. Senator Nelsen and then denying that he (Obama) had anything to do with it?

Sort of hypocritical, but not unexpected

Bash the right for their actions but when the left does the same thing and HAS done the same things it is all in the name of the democratic process.

NOTE: I have been saying all along that the WHOLE political realm is corrupt and problematic, not just one side like some of you. I know you will find that hard to believe Newsacross lol

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Feb 7, 2010, at 4:17 AM

newsacross, only the twisted logic of someone as far left as you would have interpreted, or simply parroted what the NAACP did about those remarks.

ANYONE with a reasoning brain, or less even, would understand that those remarks had NOTHING to do with race, but a stab at the uneducated public that YOU have also complained aboutl

Wake up to your own prejudices.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Feb 7, 2010, at 3:54 AM

"GOP's Shelby blocks Dem nominees, draws ire:

White House: Lawmaker is 'poster child' for what's wrong with Washington"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35260345/ns/...

This guy is holding 70 nominees in committee and refuses to budge.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Feb 7, 2010, at 1:23 AM

Jo: Me too.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Feb 7, 2010, at 1:13 AM

This video link about Latimer up above here has pretty poor sound quality, Editor Crump.

Should I conclude that Cape Girardeau has you on a tight budget? :(

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Feb 6, 2010, at 10:39 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Sorry about the (lack of) audio quality! You could also assume (correctly) that your cameraman is still learning the trade and a) should have taken an external mic or, failing that b) gotten much closer to the speakers.

I learn a little more every time, though I know that doesn't help much at the moment.

Jo Thanks for the link to Move to Amend. I noticed that Howard Zinn, OKR's favorite historian signed on before his death. Perhaps, they will have to take his name down. Bill Moyer also signed as did I. Thanks again for your common sense wisdom offered to readers of Speaking Out.

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Sat, Feb 6, 2010, at 7:13 PM

I see that Latimer has gotten plenty of press by this job change, so I suppose I should believe there's a significance here.

Would someone enlighten me? I know what a city administrator does, so I don't need a job description, but any other relevant points would be appreciated.

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Feb 6, 2010, at 5:39 PM

Folks,

I gotta tell ya...I am loving the Teabagger "convention."

Its making the "America Show" funnier than it has been in a long time.

In celebration of this "Event," I would like to go ahead and make my predictions for coming episodes of "The America Show."

1.) Voters will vote out the Democrats as a Majority in the House and replace them with Republicans in November.

2.) The Democrats will lose Seats in the Senate and the 2 conservative parties... the Republicans and the Democrats will be about 50/50 in the Senate after the November election.

3.) Gridlock will prevent any legislation from being passed during the 2010 - 2012 Congressional Term.

4.) Sarah Palin will be elected President in 2012.

5.) The economy will become a permanent 3rd World economy with unemployment around 50%.

6.) The Republicans will control both Houses of Congress beginning in January 2013.

7.) Conservative Southern and Western States will begin leaving the United States of America and President Sarah Palin will make no effort to Stop it.

8.) Poverty and wage slavery will become the Norm in the newly declared independent States. Civil rights will be nonexistent in these new Nations and political and economic oppression will be widespread with no hope of reversal.

9.) By 2016 The United States of America will no longer exist.

I may be wrong but it sure looks to me like that is where it is all heading. My wife and I will be watching from Sydney, NSW, Australia and both laughing and crying at the same time.

Good luck friends and neighbors because if you put the Conservatives back in absolute control...you are going to need all the luck you can get.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Feb 6, 2010, at 5:15 PM

"Tea Party speaker throws support to Jim Crow law"

"Tea Party opening speaker suggests law that kept blacks be kept from voting be reinstated"

http://rawstory.com/2010/02/tea-party-op...

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Feb 6, 2010, at 4:06 PM

Has anyone voted in the online poll more than once?

The numbers are quite unexpected; that is, I'm surprised by the large percentage disagreeing with the Supreme court decision. Do I have a misperception about the collective resolve of Marshall citizens, or have the same few people been voting again and again?

I've voted four times - once for each choice. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Feb 6, 2010, at 11:56 AM

Perhaps his real problem is he doesn't like non-conservative ideas being openly discussed.

Perhaps he would prefer to silence anyone who he does not agree with.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Feb 6, 2010, at 7:19 AM

Allowing people to post comments to stories and in Speak Out is merely giving them a place to put in print what people are already thinking and saying all over town. You should not think that before this forum became available, nothing was being said about any of the subjects addressed here, because it WAS. You just didn't hear it unless you were in on the conversation.

Posting comments to online stories is common at newspapers all over the U.S., not just here in Marshall, and in some places the comments are far more vicious (and unedited) than they are here.

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Sat, Feb 6, 2010, at 7:03 AM

dwp

I am not a bit surprised that you would like to initiate prior restraint censorship.

Sad as it may be, there are still those in the USA who hold similar anti-American notions as yours.

Fortunately, most of us just ignore it.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Feb 6, 2010, at 6:01 AM

xray

I am not a bit surprised that you laughed at racist remarks.

I guess it all goes to character...or lack there of...that is often associated with conservative "values."

I expect this kind of stuff from you and the neocons.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Feb 6, 2010, at 5:58 AM

newsacross.... lol I had to laugh at the NAACP saying that tancredo (spelling) somehow made a racist remark when he said what he did there not being a civics and literacy test before voting.

I understand the historical context that the NAACP rep referred to, BUT the point was not to go back to not allowing blacks to vote, which is what the NAACP is accusing Tancredo of saying. That was NOT what he said nor inferred.

In fact, not so long ago, NEWSACROSS, you were complaining about people in the US NOT being taught or learning about the US political system.

THEN when they said that the usage of Obama's middle name was purely an attempt to get people to associate Obama with the Muslims is so stupid and ridiculous..... Obama uses his middle name for political purposes more than any other person or group of people do.

But I expect this type of stuff from you

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Feb 6, 2010, at 5:54 AM

I think the section where this website allows people to post comments under any story SHOULD be disabled!!! It doesn't matter if it is a positive or negative comment! All this does is cause turmoil in our town of Marshall! That is all that people talk about anymore is people's comments posted after stories on this website. Nobody could post stuff like this before the internet, back when citizens just received newspapers in their front yards! For the sake of the town I love, the town of Marshall, MO, Marshall Democrat, would you please disable this feature???? It is destroying people's lives, including my own!!!

-- Posted by dwp on Sat, Feb 6, 2010, at 5:43 AM

"Contradicting his GOP colleagues, Cornyn declines rematch with Obama"

http://rawstory.com/2010/02/republicans-...

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Feb 6, 2010, at 2:41 AM

"I hope we shall... crush in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and to bid defiance to the laws of our country."

Thomas Jefferson, letter to George Logan. November 12, 1816

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Feb 6, 2010, at 2:02 AM

Jo

I just want you to know I have signed the petition at that site.

I think perhaps We the People may have to push for a new Constitutional Amendment in order to establish that corporations are not human beings and have none of the rights of a human being. I think it would easily get the required 38 States to ratify it.

Again, thanks so much for pointing out that website!!!

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Feb 6, 2010, at 1:59 AM

JO,

Thanks!!

That is a great website. It took a minute to find it but it was well worth it.

I hope you don't mind if I go ahead and post the link to make it a little easier for other folks to find it.

http://movetoamend.org/

Thanks again Jo...I think its just great!

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Feb 6, 2010, at 1:38 AM

OKR

1.) Yes I think people do judge them -- who ever them is -- even when they can't understand them. A little thing like language never stopped that.

2.) Not understanding someone is probably the second biggest cause of judging them...but who can say for sure.

3.) Ahhh yes or one could say "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil." I think folks have been afraid of concepts that are alien to them for a long time...darn shame that.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Feb 6, 2010, at 1:33 AM

MOVE TO AMEND .ORG CHECK IT OUT!

-- Posted by Jo on Sat, Feb 6, 2010, at 12:07 AM

Alles ist verloren, alle decken die Ohren, weil Unter-Sprachen, die nicht ihre eigenen sind, ignoriert.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Feb 5, 2010, at 11:53 PM

┐Y c--mo pueden juzgar nosotros cuando no nos entienden?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Feb 5, 2010, at 11:43 PM

┐C--mo podemos juzgar cuando no podemos entenderlos?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Feb 5, 2010, at 11:27 PM

Law professor: Assassinating US citizens raises 'troubling' issues

http://rawstory.com/2010/02/turley-targe...

I guess we could file this under, "Our military tax-dollar hard at work"

Is this the Nation we really want to be?

...another good reason...

The Party of No! has got to GO!

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Feb 5, 2010, at 11:15 PM

missy08

Arrogant and condescending? Gee sounds a lot like the pot calling the kettle black.

Well, I guess whatever my approach, it is defined by the perception of the reader for all the intents and purposes of that reader. If one agrees with my opinion, then they might think I am courageous and defending truth. If one disagrees with my opinion, then they might think I am arrogant and condescending.

Perhaps Jon Stewart of the daily show had it right when he told Bill O'Reilly that no matter what a person says, someone else will hate them for saying it.

So I don't put a lot of stake in what impression a person has of me one way or the other. I will continue to express my opinion...and cast my vote based on my own opinion...either way.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Feb 5, 2010, at 10:54 PM

missy08 posted: "You will have to be arrogant and condescending to someone else."

You hit that nail on the head.

-- Posted by AF Brat on Fri, Feb 5, 2010, at 10:11 PM

Howdy Upsedaisy,

The newspeople seem to be making Sanford out to be even more of a lout than first thought. She'll be well-rid of him.

I do believe that daffodils will grow here, depending on the variety. I'm pretty ignorant about aspects of horticulture, so I wouldn't attempt to grow much of anything requiring focused care, and my wife never cultivated a green thumb. Once upon a time she place a freeze-dried fern in a corner near the fireplace, and under her care it died.

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Feb 5, 2010, at 10:08 PM

Slater,

Howdy. I was just reading a NYTimes interview w/Jenny Sanford. Mark Sanford was at Goldman Sachs when he met Jenny. She was at Lazard Freres. A bright, classy lady.

Do you have daffodils blooming in SA or is it too warm for them?

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Fri, Feb 5, 2010, at 9:29 PM

Overheard in the Executive Washroom at Goldman-Sachs:

Goldman CEO: "WAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!! I WAS ROBBED!!! MY BONUE WAS ONLY $9 MILLION!! WOE IS ME!!!!!

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Feb 5, 2010, at 9:14 PM

TECHIES:

I'm wanting to acquire a GOOD video splitter-joiner software, but my Googling/Asking/Abouting have yielded little of value.

Any suggestions?

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Feb 5, 2010, at 8:59 PM

newsacross,

Enjoyed reading in The Scotsman about the replacement "Edinburgh Castle" backdrop that your Australian designers have come up in rapid order, though not cheaply, for the Tattoo's concerts in Sydney. High praise, indeed. Will you be attending one of the performances?

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Fri, Feb 5, 2010, at 8:20 PM

Again, you answer just a small portion of my previous question and I thank you for that. However, I have already investigated that and am now more informed on the governmental practices of Australia.

I must have some understanding of economics -- if my portfolio is an indicator. Or maybe I'm just a good guesser.

news, did I use the word "promise"? I admitted to guilt for reading.... LOL

Signing off for the night. You will have to be arrogant and condescending to someone else. I must admit, this has been fun and, btw, my steak was wonderful.

M

-- Posted by missy08 on Fri, Feb 5, 2010, at 7:34 PM

Oh and please excuse my typo -- I meant "economics" not "econmics."

Typos...they happen sometimes lol.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Feb 5, 2010, at 6:28 PM

missy08

You earlier confused a previous post of mine in which I explained to xray how wealth is distributed in a Democratic Socialist economy.

At no time and in no way did I ever state or infer that Australia is a Democratic Socialist economy.

Australia's economy is primarily a capitalist economy combined with social programs that offer a hand up to the poor and with heavy regulation of business to prevent the kind of theft we saw from Wall Street in recent years that caused the American economy to collapse into a spiraling deflationary depression.

As to learning economics...its up to you as to what you wish to study. The information is available to you but its not my job to teach you economics nor are you paying me for said service. My recommendation that you seek the answers to your economic theory questions in a more accessible and efficient forum was in response to the fact that I quickly realized when you asked where resources come from that you don't have even a basic understanding of econmics.

Oh and by they way, what happened to your promise to neither read or respond to my posts? I guess that is just another broken neocon promise.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Feb 5, 2010, at 6:25 PM

Rumor is...Stouffer wants a place on the square to put up a larger sign than the one Riley put up. Somebody should be able to make a few bucks renting the front of a building for a sign.

-- Posted by silverdollar on Fri, Feb 5, 2010, at 6:02 PM

news,

I did notice in the post to AF you addressed part of my question. You do pay taxes. Now, was that so hard? And yes, I am guilty. I read the post. Kind of like a car wreck, I just couldn't help myself.

As for the malpractice. Yes, that is for the courts to sort out. And that is where the major expense is involved. SO many times insurance companies will pay a settlement to avoid the cost of the trial. That doesn't mean the physician is guilty of malpractice, just that it isn't economically wise to fight the case. (Can I use the "e" word without having a degree in that field?)

No, thank you to taking the econ classes. I will continue my nursing continuing ed and use my skills and my expertise where it is most needed.

news, have a great weekend. I am watching the snow fall and preparing steaks for the grill....

M

-- Posted by missy08 on Fri, Feb 5, 2010, at 5:59 PM

missy08

Please do ignore all my posts. I don't think there is any fact that would change how you neocons vote nor am I trying to change your vote or your perception of the World.

As to your request that I teach you economics bit by bit in posts...I simply don't have the time or space to do that. Again, I recommend you take some simple economics survey courses.

As to the legitimacy of medical malpractice claims, sorting that out is the job of the courts...but yes I know that many of the malpractice claims are legitimate. However, as I said, I would certainly support eliminating all financial recovery of legitimate malpractice claims provided we put in place a legitimate mechanism to prevent irresponsible physicians from failing in their fiduciary duty and committing malpractice.

By criminalizing malpractice we could accomplish this task relatively easily. However, having no deterrent to physician misconduct is not a solution.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Feb 5, 2010, at 5:27 PM

AF Brat

Nobody said medical care in Australia is free. The difference is in how we pay for it.

In the USA, which is the most expensive and inefficient medical-care access system in the World, its paid through outrageous insurance premiums and by denying care to the insured.

In Australia, as in every other Western industrialized country in the World, medical care is paid mostly by general taxation. By diverting resources from unnecessary military spending and cutting fat out of corporate welfare, we are able to pay for our hybrid socialized medical care system without breaking the tax-payer's bank account. Oh and by the way, we just recently expanded our socialized medical system to include basic dental care as well. But the best part of our Socialized medical care is that all citizens, permanent residents, and tourists who are from one of our British Commonwealth Nations are covered equally regardless of employment status or income.

I know for a fact that my taxes here are no higher here in Australia than they were on a comparable level of income in the USA. In addition, we have no State income taxes. While I may or may not disagree with each part of our tax code here, I certainly cannot say that my taxes here are any higher than they were in the USA.

Now if only I didn't have to also pay taxes in the USA on my income I earn here (ex-pats must pay additional taxes to the USA if our income goes above $83,000 a year). However, double taxation is the burden we pay if we choose to live a better life in another country.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Feb 5, 2010, at 5:17 PM

Oh news.... you make me smile. No, you make me laugh out loud.

I think I will just go back to ignoring your posts and avoiding your rants. I asked for some simple info and get referred to textbooks and continuing ed. Thanks.

And as for the malpractice... you are assuming that all claims are legitimate.

M

-- Posted by missy08 on Fri, Feb 5, 2010, at 5:12 PM

Exclusive: NAACP calls Tea Party speaker's quip 'outrageous, insidious'

http://rawstory.com/2010/02/naacp-tancre...

As if lying us into war and using failed economic policies that created the current Great Depression II wasn't bad enough, now conservatives in the Republican/Libertarian/Teaparty want to roll back our civil rights. I guess they thought their calls for regressive and racist government policies would go un-noticed. Perhaps someone should explain to these folks that our watchdog groups, such as the NAACP will never allow that to happen.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Feb 5, 2010, at 4:52 PM

"Tea Party opening speaker suggests law that kept blacks from voting be reinstated"

http://rawstory.com/2010/02/tea-party-op...

Well no surprises there. As we saw during the election, racism is alive and well in the Republican/Libertarian/Teaparty.

...another excellent reason...the Party of NO! has got to GO!

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Feb 5, 2010, at 4:44 PM

"A ray of hope clouded by 8.4 million jobless"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35259851/ns/...

With out full recovery of good paying jobs, there will be no economic recovery. I disagree with some of my colleagues who are attempting to mislead the public into thinking we are in a recovery. Consumption is directly related to employment and both consumption of durable goods and employment seem to be spiraling downward...which is deflationary. From all the key indicators I have seen, it appears the depression is worsening.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Feb 5, 2010, at 4:36 PM

AF Brat

Lack of competition does not in and of itself drive up prices...in fact, often times lack of competition can serve to keep prices quite stable.

Price is the equilibrium point of quantity demand and quantity supply.

Inflation is the result of inflationary gap...too many dollars chasing too few goods...an overheated economy...or to put it more simply and more accurately...over-employment. It is sad but true that only in a capitalist economy is full employment detrimental to the economy.

If your going to discuss economics intelligently and accurately you too may want to consider taking a couple of survey courses in micro and macro economics.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Feb 5, 2010, at 4:29 PM

missy08

You ask where resources come from. I recommend you sign up for an intro to macro economics course at a local college or university. There just is not enough space in this forum for me to teach you economics, nor do I have the time to teach you economics. I am sure MU Columbia offers some good survey courses in both micro and macro economics.

As to you suggestion of putting a ceiling on physician malpractice damage recovery. I think we could eliminate any payout as long as we are willing to make physician malpractice a serious criminal act punishable by a minimum sentence of 30 years in prison and loss of license.

This would reduce the cost of malpractice insurance to $0.00 and would still serve as a deterrent to malpractice. Its important to have a deterrent of course in order to protect us, the patients, from those doctors who otherwise would fail in their fiduciary duty and conduct themselves in an irresponsible and reckless manner.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Feb 5, 2010, at 4:20 PM

Another thing that would possibly/probably decrease the health care cost would be limiting the payout on lawsuits. Doctors are practicing defensive medicine. Nurses spend more time documenting what they're doing than actually doing it. Also, hang out outside the emergency room sometime and watch the abuses of the ED services.

Have a great day!

M

-- Posted by missy08 on Fri, Feb 5, 2010, at 1:03 PM

Lack of competition always drives prices UP. There is little (none in some states) competition in plan design. Some states literally have only a single "approved" health care insurer. And the plans are exempt from the federal antitrust laws so they can collude over markets, products, and prices.

As I've said repeatedly on this page, the simplist, quickest, and most effective remedy is for the Congress to preempt restrictive state regulation, allow NATIONAL competition in plan design, and allow insurers to to sell in a NATIONAL market. And repeal the antitrust exemption.

I don't like crowded airplanes or poor service but I really did enjoy my $600 round trip flight to London. Deregulation works FOR THE CUSTOMER even if it does make life harder (by introducing competition) for the businessman -- some win and somw lose -- but prices go down.

-- Posted by AF Brat on Fri, Feb 5, 2010, at 12:13 PM

AF Brat,

I think we are asking the wrong questions in the first place. Instead of how do we pay for health care we should be asking why is it so much in the first place?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Feb 5, 2010, at 11:34 AM

Medical care in Oz is NOT free. The burden of visible and invisible taxes is enormous.

And health care in the USA won't be "free" either. In fact, it will put a crushing burden on the middle class (where all taxes hit because that's where the money is). For example:

"the President's policies in the stimulus bill and health-care debate increase current barriers to the American dream. These legislative efforts (we use the Senate health-care bill for illustration) raise to shocking levels the effective marginal tax rates (EMTR) on lower and middle-income singles and families--WITH THE GOVERNMENT TAKING UP TO 41% OF EACH ADDITIONAL DOLLAR.

"The mechanics are simple. The effective marginal tax rate is the answer to the question: "If I earn $1 more, how much less than $1 do I get to save or spend?" If you can keep that full dollar for your disposal, the effective marginal tax rate is zero. If earning another dollar does not raise your disposable income by even a penny, the effective marginal tax rate is 100 percent.

"Obviously, neither extreme is realistic. But exactly where federal policies come down in between has dramatic implications for the ability of families to rise from the ranks of the poor, or to ascend toward the upper end of the middle class. This mobility is the heart of the American dream that has made the United States a beacon of economic light for centuries. Equal opportunity to achieve that dream -- not equal paychecks or equal government handouts -- is the real-world litmus test for fairness in government policy. [continues]"

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424...

-- Posted by AF Brat on Fri, Feb 5, 2010, at 10:28 AM

news,

So sorry that you think my question is silly. I was truly looking for an answer. I don't "think" nor pretend to "know" what Australia utilizes. I thought since you are so well educated in economics, and maintain your dual citizenship, and are familiar with both "systems", you could give me a basic explanation. I doubt that the physicians in Australia work for nothing. I doubt the school teachers don't get a paycheck. There has to be a source for these monies.

"If Australia or the United States were a Democratic Socialist society the resources for such things would be allocated during the scientific planning of the economy done by a central economic planning committee elected by the People...rather than the current system which delivers most of those resources in the form of wealth to the richest fat-cats in the Country and away from the rightful owners...the People."

Okay, so where do these "resources" come from?

Have a great day!

M

-- Posted by missy08 on Fri, Feb 5, 2010, at 8:50 AM

missy08

You seem a bit confused...do you think that Australia utilizes Democratic Socialism...or do you think maybe it utilizes a capitalist economy with just a few more social programs than America?

I think you know the answer....but nice try.

If Australia or the United States were a Democratic Socialist society the resources for such things would be allocated during the scientific planning of the economy done by a central economic planning committee elected by the People...rather than the current system which delivers most of those resources in the form of wealth to the richest fat-cats in the Country and away from the rightful owners...the People.

You might try reading Karl Marx "Communist Manifesto" to learn how a socialist economy can work.

But please don't bother me with you silly questions.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Feb 5, 2010, at 8:30 AM

Hey news,

Me again. I have a question. Are you tired of my questions? You pay no taxes in Australia but you have "improved and free public services such as socialized medicine, nationalized energy, free housing, socialized daycare for kids and parents, extensive, free public facilities such as swimming pools, theaters, public transportation, subsidized groceries, subsidized restaurants and pubs, free sporting events, free festivals and concerts, free communications including free phone service, internet, and cable TV, as well as socialized dentistry and anything else the majority wants and enjoys".

Where does the money come from? Are there "special" trees there?

M

-- Posted by missy08 on Fri, Feb 5, 2010, at 7:00 AM

Thanks Jo

...but trust me, most neocons never change -- some will open their eyes, but its been my experience that most neocons tend to walk in locked goose-step.

I was once a neocon...yep...I know its hard to believe but I was. I spewed all the superficial nonsense they do now. Then I went to college...where I developed critical analysis skills, research skills, and I had exposure to ideas that hither to I had refused to even consider. I used those new critical analysis skills and carefully examined both liberal and conservative arguments. I was sometimes amazed and sometimes shocked at what I learned. I began to realize how empty and superficial the neocon arguments were. I saw how they simply failed to stand up to scrutiny. Eventually I had to swallow my pride, set my ego aside, and admitted I and my fellow conservatives were wrong...very wrong.

For me that was the beginning.

Regarding Independence...

Yes my wife and I purchased a condo out in Independence about a year after I emigrated to Australia. Prior to my emigration, I owned the family farm which is a small farm up near Montegue Hill. It had been in my family for years. It is the place my Father and all his brothers and sisters grew up,the place where my Grandfather and Great Aunt lived and died and the place my Grandmother lived until her 104th year when she died, and is the place where I spent a great deal of my own childhood. In short, I love that little farm. It was far more than just a farm to me...it represented almost everything I ever loved...my family, Marshall, everything.

After I emigrated to OZ, I hired a friend to take care of the place for me...mow the lawn, watch the house, ect. I paid him in advance. That was a big mistake. I think he cut the lawn one time and I was never able to reach him on his phone after that. So my wife and I sold the farm and bought the condo in Independence instead. Its much easier to look after a condo from 14,000 miles away than it is to look after a farm lol.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Feb 5, 2010, at 2:08 AM

Good for you News Across Maybe they get it now,ha! We also have something in common,besides our Politics. We both have Property in Independence, Mo. Good little Town!Have seen Harry on some of his Walks down Truman Rd. & the Square way back when!

-- Posted by Jo on Fri, Feb 5, 2010, at 1:02 AM

Interview with Ted Nugent the "Motor City Madman"...another example of the typical, foul mouthed, crazy conservative:

http://rawstory.com/2010/02/ted-nugent-s...

This guy is the perfect example of why I say...

...the Party of NO! has to GO!

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Feb 5, 2010, at 12:52 AM

hey xray,

I don't know what makes you think I have any obligation what so ever to address your questions...you neocons sure do think you are special lol lol lol.

...but I digress...anyway I have always answered the questions you pose and I do it in my own way. Perhaps you just don't like the answers you get. Maybe you have decided somewhere along the line that its your way or the highway...its not. You are just one of millions of people in our Nation. I could not care less if you like my answers or my solutions. You will always vote for conservatives and you will always oppose progress and I doubt anything short of a miracle would change that.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Feb 5, 2010, at 12:44 AM

mrxray

Yeah and like I told you, I was born and raised and lived almost all my life in the USA -- my Country...my Nation...America. My family goes way back in both American History and Marshall's history (we have been on this Continent since it was a British Colony and yes some of my ancestors fought in our war of Independence...volunteers for liberty) . In fact, every one of my male ancestors are veterans of the United States army as am I. We have fought in every war the United States has ever engaged in. I might also point out that my Uncle (a Marshalite just like me) earned the Silver Star and 2 Bronze Stars fighting the Japanese in the South Pacific -- hop on over to the Court House and you will see him listed with the other Marshall Heroes on the first floor). I think we have earned our place in America...can you say the same? I wonder how many times I have to keep telling you this before you get it? ...or maybe you just choose not to get it.

...and yeah I have dual citizenship.

The best part is my American citizenship can never be taken from me (14th Amendment)...despite the fact that some neocons would love it to be otherwise in order to silence my voice. But that won't be happening. In addition, since I also maintain a residence in Independence, I am able to vote in every Missouri election by absentee ballot or in person if I happen to be in Independence on the day of the election (which is my right as a citizen). Yeah xray, I sure do have dual citizenship, and so I also vote in every New South Wales/Australian election as well -- also my right...thus voting against right-wingers like you in both Countries.

I recommend you get used to it.

As far as preferring programs that assist the middle class and the poor who desperately need the assistance...you bet I do.

However, I would much prefer a socialist economy where such programs would not be necessary, where every able bodied man and woman would have a good paying job easily available to them, and where wealth is shared equally through improved and free public services such as socialized medicine, nationalized energy, free housing, socialized daycare for kids and parents, extensive, free public facilities such as swimming pools, theaters, public transportation, subsidized groceries, subsidized restaurants and pubs, free sporting events, free festivals and concerts, free communications including free phone service, internet, and cable TV, as well as socialized dentistry and anything else the majority wants and enjoys. I think that would beat the hell out of having our National wealth concentrated primarily in the hands of only the top 1% of wealthy Americans who currently utilize that wealth privately and primarily only for themselves and their family while some American children go homeless and hungry (and please spare me the "its poor people's own fault they are poor" story...the poor are not at fault because they are poor) .

One of the parts of Democratic Socialism you conservatives might love is NO taxes. In a socialist economy there are no taxes...you keep what you earn...no income taxes, no sales taxes, no inheritance taxes, and no property taxes.

We can have that type of economy and still enjoy our Constitution, our democracy, and our civil rights.

Capitalism has failed and now its time for a better system that works for everyone...rather than a system that only works for the very richest fat-cats in the land. Maybe we will find socialism isn't right for us..so what...we will try something else and we will keep trying new things as long as it takes to get it right because this Country belongs to the People...not just the rich fat-cats you support.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 4, 2010, at 11:27 PM

News... I know you are dual citizenship at least according to you. And yes my UNveiled commentcwas directed st you

my question regarding the liberal and newsacross's unsolutions of entitlement programs sponsored by the fed are still valid and unanswered except for one who wanted my answer but that accused me of not having solutions. When you all come up with an answer to my unanswered questions I will answer with my solutions. Until you answer my questions you are just avoiding the problem

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Feb 4, 2010, at 10:35 PM

Smart Dog

I just read your comment.

You clearly have an excellent grasp on things. Its good to know that there are smart dogs out there.

As they say in Australia, good on ya mate!

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 4, 2010, at 7:47 PM

Exclusive: "How corporations secretly move millions to fund political ads"

Capitalism at work controlling our Government and making our elections irrelevant.

Is this the kind of Nation we really want to be?

I prefer democracy, thank you very much!

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 4, 2010, at 6:48 PM

"Haiti charges U.S. church members with kidnap"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35235514/ns/...

This is getting a bit ridiculous.

Granted intent is not normally a defense to kidnapping and ignorance of the law is no excuse, never the less, Haiti's prosecutor really should consider the circumstances under which this occurred. I hope President Obama will weigh in on this and get our people home safely as soon as possible.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 4, 2010, at 6:43 PM

red dog

1) Democratic Socialism is a relatively new idea and has never been tried in any country so you have no idea whether or not it would would work. In fact I doubt you even know what it is. Trying socialism in Nations that don't have a democratic form of government is a sure recipe for disaster. Socialism can only work in a free and open society.

2.) I think you are confusing Democratic Socialism with Stalinism...in fact, one has nothing to do with the other.

3.) From the looks of the collapsed economy in the United States...which suffers economic recession/depression every 5 to 6 years...capitalism doesn't work. 22% unemployment and a continuous spiraling deflation, and a large mass of poor is not a working economy.

4.) Socialism is an economic system not a political system.

5.)I am proud to be an American also. That is why I so strongly support a complete revamping of our economic system. Doing nothing about failed capitalism is hardly would I would call "patriotism."

6.) Our freedom has nothing do do with capitalism. Our freedoms are guaranteed by our constitution not capitalism. In fact, capitalism is anything but democratic due to the "dollar vote" element in capitalism where allocation is decided by how many dollar votes a person or company has. Democracy is one vote per person. I prefer democracy thank you very much.

7.) Again, I am a proud American. Just because I have a residence in Australia, as I also have in America, does not mean I have given up my American citizenship. In fact, I would venture to guess I have been an American a lot longer than you newcomer. My American citizenship is not up for debate nor do you have any say in it.

8.) As to what our Government owes to We the People...that will be decided by the majority in a democratic fashion...you get one vote, I get one vote, ect...if the majority wants to elect Democratic Socialists to the majority we will. You don't dictate to us, the American People, what our Government owes us or anything else and neither do your rich, fat-cat masters on Wall street.

You seem to support capitalism and well...we know that doesn't work out. Trying the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is insane. We the American People need a New Deal...not a lot of capitalist propaganda based in ignorance.

We the People need good paying jobs. We the People need to be able to put food on our tables. We the People need to clothe our children. We don't need a failed capitalist economic system. That does us no good at all and only benefits the rich fat cats that stole our 401K's.

Your welcome to believe what you want, but please don't expect the rest of America to get sucked into that nonsense. We want solutions to very real problems...not more capitalist propaganda.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 4, 2010, at 6:03 PM

I see nothing wrong with Socialism, seems that's how we got this far! There is Socialism in just about every thing we Accomplish in this Country! Like Nana Dot, said try it on your own, and see how far you get? A Socialized, Democratic Government and your Neighbor's are the only thing between you, and something picking your Bone's clean! You think your going it alone? Get real!

-- Posted by Jo on Thu, Feb 4, 2010, at 5:24 PM

noshadesofgray and alphadog: Hope you saw this:

www.marshallnews.com/story/1607888.html

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Thu, Feb 4, 2010, at 4:37 PM

Hey, red dog, most democracies in the world today are somewhat socialist, including ours, as history has taught us that many, many things do not go well when left up to pure capitalist market forces. Public education, social security, medicare, public transportation systems, municipal utilities (water and sewer), farm programs, state universities, state institutions (hab center), public fire protection, and public law enforcement are but a few. Would you care to show me the history lessons that reveal all these things to be bad ideas?

Commmunism in most social sciences is defined to be totalitarian, or a "one party" form of socialist government. Never have seen a communist democracy.

However, in the modern world we have many socialist democracies where the government is comprised of freely elected officials, yet the goal of government is to provide "the basic services that all citizens deserve to enjoy" for all equally. The arguments today are over what those basic services should be, not whether they should exist at all. That ship has sailed.

If you really take a look at history I think you will find that socialism was branded as "a stepping stone to communism" in response to the labor movements of the early 20th century as a campaign to convince the public that unions were a bad idea was waged by coporations and business owners who didn't like the idea of collective bargaining, at all. The politics of that period, followed by the cold war and our irrational fear that social programs would lead to the Chinese or Russians taking over America, seems to have left this "fear" of social programs in the minds of many, which one of our political parties appears to enjoy using to influence voters.

I am not supporting socialism, communism, or capitalism here, as they all have thier weaknesses and benefits, just want to make sure you are not drawing improper analogies.

-- Posted by Smart Dog on Thu, Feb 4, 2010, at 3:14 PM

That is unfortunate....however, if you go to Missouri Western's website they are highlighted there.

-- Posted by noshadesofgray on Thu, Feb 4, 2010, at 12:03 PM

MHS football players that signed with Mo West were not even mentioned....how sad....

http://www.stjoenews.net/news/2010/feb/0...

-- Posted by alphadog on Thu, Feb 4, 2010, at 11:01 AM

Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave.

I am proud to be an AMERICAN!

Some that post here seem to think they have all the answers to everything, especially what is wrong with our country.

Some are "wanna be" socialists. The lack of capitalization is deliberate. These "wanna be" people are forgetting history, if they ever knew it.

The Government of the United States does not owe me, or you, anything but a safe place in which to live with all the freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution and Bill of Rights. Good government starts right here at the City level and runs all the way to the top. We need to be very careful of whom we elect to represent us. Remember the old adage that some people grow with promotion, others swell. Let's leave the swells at home and send only our best to represent us.

As for socialism in any form in MY government. A pox on all that promote it. Socialism is the first cousin of communism and we all know how that works out.

Be it so.

-- Posted by red dog on Thu, Feb 4, 2010, at 9:50 AM

movaldude

Actually poverty is a symptom of a failed economic system.

In a Democratic Socialist society there are no poor and no rich. Everyone is equal. Basing your view of economics on the ramblings of some gay, transient rabbi who wandered around Judea 2000 years ago is not a very good economic foundation. If an economy isn't working for all the members of a nation...it isn't working at all.

By the way...how is that capitalism working out for ya? 22% unemployment and you think that system is working? It will be interesting to see what you think in about 2 years when it has spiraled much further than it has now. Capitalism doesn't work. We the People need a new deal...and capitalism is just more of the same failed nonsense we have now. That isn't going to put food on the table...but Democratic Socialism will.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 4, 2010, at 9:21 AM

xray says...

"I really love the arrogance of people from other nations who think that the US should try to be identical to other nations."

Granted he thinks he veiled it well but he is referring to me...lol

Apparently he thinks Missouri is some other nation...'cause I am from Kansas City.

Oops you forgot we Americans don't check our citizenship at the door when we emigrate to another country didn't you xray?

I am American no matter where I put my boots xray...and there is not one thing you can do about it.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Feb 4, 2010, at 5:03 AM

Mr Xray:

If you have a solution to poverty in this country or in any country, YOU NEED TO STEP forward and give us your answer. But as I suspect you are just interested in pointing out the issues in other's lives. Sometimes poverty is just a function of the current economic condition of people in a particular region during rough times. Remember it was Jesus who said that the poor will always be with you. Sometimes poverty is just bad luck followed by bad decisions followed by more bad luck.

Remember that people need a hand up not a boot down.

That is how I see it pssst!

-- Posted by movaldude on Thu, Feb 4, 2010, at 1:15 AM

No one who has even a modicum of concern about the future of Marshall, and Saline County should fail to read Ms. Fairchild's "Kids Count" article.

Most of us who have grown up in Marshall were not subjected to a bottom of the barrel environment. Pity the kids of Saline County now as they decline toward a third world environment.

What will the city, and county be when the disadvantaged kids of today, are running the businesses, the local government, working the jobs twenty years from now?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Feb 4, 2010, at 12:42 AM

"red dog" you are dead on right to call attention to that article.

It is a disgrace that Saline County as rich as it is compared to so many other counties has fallen to the bottom tier of counties. One would think it would be THE topic on the blog for sometime to come.

How could the current situation occur here when it has not occured in the adjoining counties?

Something is rotten.

I posted further at the comments section below the story.

It seems the decline in the quality of local sports programs, the increase in crimes related to poverty, ignorance, and drugs are just dead canaries in the coal mine. This article began to drag out dead miners.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Feb 4, 2010, at 12:24 AM

looking for the "rude comments have been deleted" button

-- Posted by lhcg on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 11:53 PM

News.... I really love the arrogance of people from other nations who think that the US should try to be identical to other nations.

I grant you one thing, the Repubs failed to address the health care issues after Clinton. I have never said other wise.

BUT, just because the Dems want to socialize medicine and create ANOTHER entitlement program and just because the Repubs failed to address health care reform before Obama, does not also create causation for the US to move to socialized medicine.

Again, you nicely avoid the whole issue the underlies health care and welfare and any other entitlement program, in that it does NOT solve the problem but puts a nice band aide on it AND as I said, creates an even larger group of people dependent on the government, slaves to the government with NO real assistance to SOLVE the "why" problems the created the poverty in the first place.

Dependency is an mental disorder

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 10:25 PM

Wow! Good research "missy". You get an "A" for the day.

-- Posted by Alan J on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 10:02 PM

missy08

I found some articles related to your inquiry about doctor shortages in the USA...you may want to have a look at them. Perhaps the answer to you question will be found in one or all of these.

1.) "Shortage of Doctors an Obstacle to Obama Goals"

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/27/health...

2.) "Shortage of surgeons pinches U.S. hospitals"

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2008...

3.) "Medical miscalculation creates doctor shortage"

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2005...

4.) "A Future Doctor Shortage?

A Growing Lack Of New Doctors Could Be American's Next Health Crisis"

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/06/1...

5.) "Doctor Shortage Coming to America

As 79 million baby boomers reach old age, experts predict will be short 200,000 physicians by the year 2020." (with video)

http://www.redorbit.com/news/video/healt...

6.) "Health Care Bills Do Not Address Shortage Of Doctors In America"

http://thegovmonitor.com/world_news/unit...

7.) "Blame Doctors for America's Primary Care Doctor Shortage"

http://motherjones.com/mojo/2009/10/blam...

8.) "Free Medical Camp Confronts Doctor Shortage in Los Angeles"

http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/vie...

9.) "National Doctor Shortage Putting Patients at Risk"

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/healthscience...

10.) "Range of programs addressing state's doctor shortage"

http://www.allbusiness.com/north-america...

I hope these will be of assistance to you.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 8:18 PM

Have you read the "Kids Count" article yet? This situation is not acceptable to me and should not be acceptable to anyone that lives in this County. How about the Saline County Development Corporation change their focus to correcting this situation. That Corporation absorbs a great deal of money and has yet to prove its worth to me. All blow and no show. How about all the so called community leaders involved in this corporation putting their efforts into something worthwhile, such as solving this situation.

-- Posted by red dog on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 7:26 PM

missy08

I am happy to see medical school enrollments are up. That is always good news. As to whether they will successfully graduate, I don't know. Again, you asked me to speculate and I did. Speculation is just speculation and is nothing more and nothing less.

As to my doctor, yes he is fully licensed by the State of NSW and has all the required credentials. I might add that I have also been to other physicians here in Oz and it has always been the same...got in there within one hour of my call to set the appointment. Maybe I am just lucky or maybe its because Sydney is a large city...as large as 6 million people. Since rural areas in the United States have difficulty attracting doctors, your long wait may have something to do more with the supply side of the equation and less to do with the demand side of the equation.

Anyway, I think what matters to me is that I am able to see my doctor at no direct cost to me and that everyone in Australia who is a citizen, permanent resident, or a citizen of any British Commonwealth Nation (God Save Our Queen) is covered by our socialized medical system at no direct cost to the patient.

I wish you good luck in your dealings with your doctor in the future and I, again, recommend you ask him or her why you have such a long wait to see him or her.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 7:25 PM

Brian Riley is running for Ike Skelton's seat in Congress. I don't know whether there is any time limit on when campaigning can start, but I'll check for you.

www.marshallnews.com/story/1576773.html

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 7:09 PM

Was in Marshall today. Have you seen the HUGE political sign on the west side of the square? I didn't think you could put political signs up this far in advance of the election.

Does anyone have an answer? By the way...who is Riley?

-- Posted by silverdollar on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 7:03 PM

news --

I did a quick internet search and found that the applications and enrollment to US medical schools and osteopathic school has increased since 05. I should have included the links but there were probably 6 or 8 sources that gave those statistics.

I am still baffled as to how your Doc could be so accessible. Maybe he refers complicated cases? Maybe he doesn't "follow" patients? Pure speculation. Are you sure he is a doctor? *Grin*

M

-- Posted by missy08 on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 7:00 PM

Rep. Garamendi: 'Unending negotiations' damaged health care bill

"Insurance companies 'used Tea Party' to try and kill bill"

http://rawstory.com/2010/02/garamendi-he...

Interestingly enough, all the "negotiations" and conservative obstructionism changed nothing.

Millions of Americans are still being denied medical care access by Big Insurance and We the People continue to suffer.

...yet another reason...the Party of NO! has to GO!

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 6:50 PM

Here is some recent information regarding the kidnapping charges against our people in Haiti. It looks as though no decision has yet been made by the prosecutor in the case as to whether or not they will be formerly charged.

Frankly, I don't think it will go to trial and was basically a big misunderstanding...but we shall see.

"Many kids in Haiti case not orphans"

"Villagers say they willingly gave up children; prosecutor to decide Thursday"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35221007/ns/...

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 6:40 PM

goonieboonie

As regards the Americans charged with kidnapping in Hati...

First and foremost I believe that anyone accused of a crime is innocent until proven beyond any reasonable doubt to be guilty, and thus far these defendants have yet to have their day in court.

However, remember that its Haiti that determines Haitian law and they will follow their laws and try these folk under their laws. When the trials are over we will have an answer as to their guilt or innocence. If they are guilty of kidnapping as the Haitian Government believes, then of course, like any other criminal, they will suffer the consequences of their crime. There does seem to be a great deal of evidence against them and I don't think intent is an allowable defense to such a charge as kidnapping. However, until a jury renders their verdict, we can only speculate.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 6:31 PM

missy08

Yes you read me correctly and no I wasn't joking.

In fact the butter/guns concept of macro-economics is well known and a basic concept well understood by all economists. I don't see how any economist could get beyond their first macro economics course with out a good understanding of the scarcity of resources concept.

It comes down to this. All resources...natural resources and labor included...are scarce and thus finite. We don't have an unlimited source of anything. So if you prefer to have an economy that places a higher priority on waging war and less priority on training doctors then you are dedicating your resources to the weapons of that war and less of your resources to training doctors. Consequently, you have less doctors.

Its not a real difficult concept to grasp when you understand that you only have so many resources with which to produce with. In the case of the United States, we have now been at war in Iraq and Afghanistan for a considerable number of years and these wars have been dedicating a great deal of our labor and other resources to these wars both directly and indirectly. Consequently, we have less resources that we can dedicate to the training of doctors and nurses and less resources we can spend on producing medical equipment.

Of course that is just a general overview of the macro-economics of our situation in the USA as regards war and doctors. You originally asked me why you have to wait so long to see your doctor. In essence you were asking me to speculate. I have done so, but as I have pointed out I am not a medical professional. I am an economist, so all I can do is give your one possible reason for the long periods you say you wait to see your doctor. However, if you want a more specific answer to your question, I recommend you ask your doctor his opinion. Of course he may tell you that he can only speculate since he is not an economist...lol.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 6:20 PM

Okay, since we fixed everything in sports we can move on to politics but that doesn't give me much hope!

Hey, what do you think of the American church people from out west accused of "child trafficing" in Haiti?

-- Posted by goonieboonie on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 5:41 PM

I guess you are trying to say it's time to get back to bickering about politics--tired of sports?

-- Posted by WickedWitch on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 3:58 PM

The way I saw them wrestle a few weeks ago hard, solid, good positioning, good movement they seem on the right track to bring the wrestling program back. Give the program a chance.

-- Posted by Alan J on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 2:44 PM

When are we going to get past blaming the kids, the lack of talent, the parents, lack of school spirit?? I am surprised someone hasn't said it's because people don't shop the square!!! Come on!!

-- Posted by noshadesofgray on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 2:37 PM

Goonie, I agree wholeheartedly with you about knowing what it takes to win, but I think these kids first have to want it bad enough and that is hard to do without the proper support. This new coach is a young guy himself, I would think he would be able to relate to these young wrestlers better than anyone, but from what the kids are saying, it isnt happening. I hope that he learns to balance the roles of being a young person and being a person with a lot of control soon so he can keep this team on track!

-- Posted by lland on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 2:04 PM

goonieboonie--love the remark let's not lie and slander on a community board. HA isn't that all this is? Nobody knows the facts yet everybody including you is free to shout an opinion. settle down and let lland have his say --and old owl i have no opinion what so ever about the wrestling coach--havent been this year--just making a general statement to get in on the fun

-- Posted by WickedWitch on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 1:58 PM

Has anyone heard about this and how much a role did Becky Plattner play among others?

http://www.stjoenews.net/news/2010/feb/0...

-- Posted by alphadog on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 1:36 PM

Personal . . . no . . . just tired of seeing people who have never even played a sport, never known success, don't even have a clue what it takes to win, who could barely even graduate from high school, with tactics that only undermine and tear apart, destroy one athletic program after another in Marshall. There was a day in Marshall when we new what it took to win, and parents supported it. But not today. We haven't for years. Will we ever see another state championship banner hang in the gym? Not with your approach. I guess I can always move to Kirksville and maybe take our old banner with me. But, oh, that's right Kirksville has one of their own. Since you can't lead . . . follow . . . or get out of the way.

-- Posted by goonieboonie on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 1:30 PM

I do not have a child on the MHS wrestling team now or previously. I have friends who have kids on the team and am merely chatting about conversations we have had about this season. It does seem that you are taking the conversation personally, which is interesting.

-- Posted by lland on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 1:00 PM

goonieboonie you hit the nail on the head with your last comment well done.

lland let me ask you a question are you taking a kids word about what is going on or have you seen these things for your self?

-- Posted by OldOwlFan on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 12:48 PM

Lland,

Your real agenda is showing. When all else has failed you resort to lies and slander.

You started out with the argument that "they are losing everything" - when that was shown to be false and that there has been a 100% improvement from year-to-year;

Then you switched your main argument to "unhappy" kids. The weakness and ridiculousness of that was exposed.

Then it became clear to everyone reading this board that you're unhappy about your son quitting and not getting to do as he wanted in the wrestling room.

Now when all logic and truth is gone . . . you claim your real concern is a "yelling, cussing, name calling coach" in an attempt to scare people and garner support to keep the kids safe.

Your real agenda has exposed itself.

If you and your son have something personal with the coach(es) you need to take it up with them not lie and slander on a community board.

-- Posted by goonieboonie on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 12:11 PM

Not really. Im crying because I dont think a high school coach should cuss & yell at students, or call them degrading names. Maybe Im out of line on that but I think a lot of other people feel the same way, or more teachers/coaches would be doing it!

-- Posted by lland on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 11:15 AM

lland I bet you little boy is one of the ones that left the team because the coach treated them bad.

To me it sounds like your crying cause little jonnie could not hack a tough practice!!!!!!!

-- Posted by OldOwlFan on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 10:56 AM

Right! A wrestling coach should work the kids hard but they also have to have some kind of rapport with the kids and support them win or lose. Heinzler had great bonds with the kids both on and off the mat. I dont know that this one has figured that part out yet.

-- Posted by lland on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 10:49 AM

My kid ran cross country. Ever been to a meet? Everybody plays. The runners compete against the other teams and their own team members. They are also competing against their own time. Coach Denton and Mrs. Coach are practicing runners. Boy, that is something you don't see everyday...... Check out cross country.

Have a great day!

M

-- Posted by missy08 on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 10:48 AM

Any coach that's not from, here is going to have oldtown haters to shake off. People should either be supportive, be quiet, or... grab a whistle before they condemn coaches. Try to build a good program w/o pushing kids past their limits, its a daily grind.

I question those, if any ,unfair practices those "unhappy" wrestlers had to endeour? How is it those few young grapplers, that still honor their commitments, have managed to make it this long if things are so severe?

One of the great things about the sport of wrestling is the way it makes you be accountable for your own success/lack of . Ultimately, a kid has to push his/herself everyday in order to be successful, a coach's duty is to help them do so. There aren't any "in between plays" moments with teammates, or "just shoulder pads and shorts" days for practice. Its WORK!!

-- There's no right field in wrestling!!

Keep fighting OWLS!

-- Posted by viking99 on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 10:37 AM

news wrote (and I hope he was kidding....) --

"if you want more docs, you may need to produce less guns and end all the foreign wars...its all a matter of priorities. But if you believe that killing brown skinned people in 3rd World countries that pose no direct, imminent threat to the USA is a higher priority, then perhaps you need less doctors. Again, it just depends on your priorities."

What? If we had fewer guns, we would have more docs? What?

M

-- Posted by missy08 on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 10:20 AM

News said this:

"I find it most interesting that 2 conservative proponents of obstructionism from each of the 2 main conservative parties, the Republicans and the Democrats, should only now begin to see the failure of conservative obstructionism."

ME:

I'm unclear on how you determine that those two members of Congress are "just now" seeing the light. They've been working together this past year trying to garner support for statutory action on the deficit issue but have failed to convince enough members that a potential catastrophic outcome will result unless meaningful steps are taken, and immediately. For example, they want the freeze to start now, not later as Obama has suggested, and they want a major overhaul/reduction of entitlements. I wouldn't necessarily characterize their efforts as part of the status quo. I do believe a few legislators of both parties actually care more about our country and its people than they do about their own selfish ways, but it's pretty obvious that number is way short of what's needed to put things right.

And then News said this:

"Oh by the way, are all of those problems in our medical-care access system that were the catalyst of the attempt to overhaul our medical-care access system all cleared up now?"

ME:

A few months ago someone described Congress as being unable to comprehensively deal with one issue at a time, let alone a host of them simultaneously, and we're clearly seeing that to be the case, especially when the will to do so is lacking. Jay Rockefeller said that in his opinion at least 90% of legislators don't adequately understand the intricacies of health care reform to know whether a proposal has merit, and therefore he had no confidence that a real plan would emerge. It's looking like both of them have Congress pegged.

So, where does that leave us? It leaves the American people with no choice but to turn over the crop in Washington and install some fresh minds coupled with new energy and spirit to tackle the issues head-on and work through them to a successful conclusion. If the voters continue turning out the deadbeats, eventually those seeking the chairs will know going in that any dilly-dallying will NOT be tolerated.

The members of Congress realize this, but they've had their way for so long that they believe they're impervious to any action taken by the voters.

We'll know in a few months if in fact the public has its finger on the pulse of our "august" lawmaking body.

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 9:55 AM

goonieboonie,

I agree whole heartedly! We are raising an entire generation of wussies. Consider the proposal to lock down the lunch hour. Why? Because it's easier to punish everyone than to actually deal with those who may be causing trouble. Those kids may never really see the consequences for thier actions until it's too late.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 9:43 AM

missy08

I don't work in the medical industry so I have no idea. My doc stays pretty busy but he is quick. There are also 3 other docs there besides him and they seem to move things along pretty quickly. Perhaps America has critical shortage of doctors. But anyway, as I said I don't work in the medical industry. I know we do have a shortage of nurses here and we encourage immigrants with a nursing background to come live here. That helps a lot. In addition, we have incentive programs to encourage people to enter into nursing. Oh by the way, we just recently extended our socialized medicine to include basic dental as well.

I do know that if you have a shortage of docs then, like most countries, you need to move money from one resource to another depending on your needs and priorities. For example, if you want more docs, you may need to produce less guns and end all the foreign wars...its all a matter of priorities. But if you believe that killing brown skinned people in 3rd World countries that pose no direct, imminent threat to the USA is a higher priority, then perhaps you need less doctors. Again, it just depends on your priorities.

Here in Australia we put a priority on medical needs and making sure all Australians have at least some income. Nobody goes without the basics of life here.

People here who are unemployed receive a minimum of $300.00 a week plus assistance with food and housing and, unlike American unemployment, there is no cut off point. They continue to receive the benefit regardless of the length of their unemployment. Naturally, we do closely monitor their job searches including actually checking to see if they have applied at the places of employment they claim they have, but no one goes without some kind of income. We do have some homeless and the State tries to get them to come in and apply for free state housing...which unlike American ghettos and projects...are very nice and very safe...located in average neighborhoods. However, many of the homeless here suffer from mental illness and seem to prefer the beach or the parks. Never-the-less, they all receive an assistance check of a minimum of $300.00 a week no matter what. The only way that I know of an eligible person to be cut off from assistance is in a case of fraud and even then the state will forgive them in many cases and resume the assistance.

Of course unlike the USA, our economy hasn't collapsed and we have a lot of jobs available. Our economy is growing at a healthy rate and those that want jobs can certainly find them. Interestingly enough, Australians don't typically like the idea of living on the dole. Most want to work and do work. The Australians have a keen sense of pride and an appreciation for what they call "the fair go." But in any event, as a result of our social programs, we have far less crime here and you can walk any street in the city with out any fear and no one goes with out an income.

It works well here but this is a different country with its own traditions and its own characteristics. However, in the end, its a simple fact of economics that more guns means less butter...or less doctors...or some combination therein.

Perhaps its fair to say we Americans may need to do some serious introspection and we may have some important decisions to make in terms of resource allocation.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 9:41 AM

lland

This is exactly why MHS athletics across the board have been on a downward slide for years. Its not just wrestling it is the way we approach sports anymore in Marshall. Because parents coddle the feelings of their kids who aren't "happy" and it has evolved into a "happy fest." Standards, a solid work ethic, a sense of accomplishment and achievement no longer matter. It did at one time in Marshall athletics. But not any more. For years we have let the "inmates" run the "asylum." The lowest common denominator of maturity is allowed to call the shots. Who cares if we actually win, compete or ever accomplish anything as long as my little Johnny is happy. You're very choice to ignore and intentionally overlook the improvements that have been made reveal that your real problem is not knowing how to help someone handle their immature emotions. As long as "happy fest" is our focus, we will never restore championships back to MHS . . . but you and some of the other parents will be "happy" and Johnny will be "happy" . . . never accomplished anything . . . but "happy." Maybe it is time for our boys to actually grow up and be young men, and it is time the "big people" in their lives actually helped them do that, rather than let them hold on to their blankies and coddle their feelings.

-- Posted by goonieboonie on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 9:32 AM

But news, my question is -- don't the docs have sick people to take care of? Are there more docs than patients? How can you get in so quickly? My doctor stays pretty busy. If I am *sick* I can usually get in before the end of the day. But he has a very busy practice and takes care of a lot of kids....

Have a great day!

M

-- Posted by missy08 on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 9:05 AM

Goonie, My "cause" as you would have it, is concern for the kids. If they feel that they are being treated badly by the wrestling coach, then that should be the concern of every parent, teacher, coach, taxpayer, citizen of this town. If one or two kids said it was bad but the rest were happy...fine...but when the vast majority have the same complaint, that is a major concern. It is amazing how easily you are able to disregard "unhappy adolescents" and their "tiny feelings"...this is their school, this is supposed to be about them...no one else.

-- Posted by lland on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 8:05 AM

missy08

They make their own appointments. No one gets bumped. If its an emergency then they go to the hospital.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 7:49 AM

news, I am just curious. Where are all the sick people in Australia? If you have a pulled muscle and can see the doc within 1 hour, where are the kids with strep, the productive cough with chest pain, and the bladder infections going? Are all of those treated in the ED? What about those who have scheduled appointments for routine follow-up of CHF or diabetes? Do they get bumped because your arm hurts? Curious.

Have a great day!

M

-- Posted by missy08 on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 7:25 AM

Fox cuts live feed of Obama, again

http://rawstory.com/2010/02/fox-cuts-awa...

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 7:13 AM

Oh and xray...

...just because conservative republican Arnie has driven the California economy into the ground...the same way the Republicans drove our National economy into the ground...is no reason to blame the Democrats. No bill becomes law in California with out Arnie's signature.

...and yet another reason...the Party of NO! has got to GO!

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 7:08 AM

Hey xray,

While you are attempting to bury the fact that all the problems you had in the American "root, hog, or die" medical system are still there...and the conservative obstructionism did nothing to change it...people are dying from cancer because they can't get the chemo and/or radiation treatment they need...'cause Big Insurance figured out a way to deny them.

...but not in Australia. Like the rest of the civilized World we have socialized medicine...its far more efficient, effective, and its not profit driven. Best of all, everyone here is covered no matter their employment status, income, or prior medical history.

Folks...while conservatives like xray are trying to muddy the water...your friends and relatives are dying from lack of medical care.

...yet another reason...the Party of NO! has to GO!

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 6:59 AM

Hey news, just for comparison, it would be Wednesday if I'm lucky or most likely Friday for me to get into my doctor, for the reason you stated. My cost? $110.00 for the office visit.

-- Posted by Scarpetta on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 1:27 AM

How exactly does pay as you go work when you are only doing it for a VERY small fraction of the economy AND while purposing another 4 trillion dollars in another unstimulus plan? We were told unemployment would go to 8% if we did NOT go with the stimulus plan.... hmmmm if we DO this one then will that make unemployment go to 20% or more?

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 1:20 AM

news across...

ONE flaw in all of your thinking. With all the liberal SPENDING/entitlement programs come a HIGH cost with HIGH inefficiency, waste and fraud. These liberal entitlement programs are nothing but tax based drains on the economy and the more of these types of programs we have the worse our economy gets. One only has to look toward California to see what LIBERAL spending leads to.

The NEXT flaw is that by simply providing a government program that decreases personal/individual responsibility, you are NOT attempting to solve the REAL problems but only but a bandaid on the situation to make it appear as if you are really caring.

What do I mean by this? Just take the whole give a fish/teach people to fish story. If I give you a welfare check, food stamps, health care and other entitlements then you are NOT fixing the problems that cause poverty. You know REAL problems like not having an education because you dropped out due to stupidity of a teen or becoming pregnant before you have a career, or other problems like addiction.

As other people have said, entitlements, not only are economic drains, they just multiply the drain on the economy by encouraging MORE people to be dependent on the government in a LEARNED behavior that prevents them from being made to fend for their selves. This is just another form of slavery, this time slavery to entitlement programs and the government....

IF the liberals would REALLY care for the people they would solve the individual problems of the individual people and of society instead of trying to make a blanket type program to inadequately just provide handouts for people. BUT this would go against a liberals ideals because their goal is NOT caring for people but creating democrat voters by creating psychologically dependent people that are dependent on the failed government entitlement programs that do not cure ANY social ailment but actually increases the ailments.

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 1:16 AM

Oh hey speaking of health care...

I pulled a muscle in my right arm while doing some curls at the gym the day before yesterday. So I went to the doctor to see how serious it is (I still can't straighten out my arm) and the doc says its just a pulled muscle. He says it will repair itself in about a week or two and to stay away from any lifting for that period of time.

My cost? nothing. We have socialized medicine. I picked this doc from the yellow pages when I first emigrated to Oz...and so far he has been great. I get great medical care, always get in to see him no more than an hour after I call to make the appointment, and on top of all that, I pay $0.00...no bill, no co-pay, no insurance premiums, and I pay just a little less in taxes than I did in America on a comparable income.

I sure wish it was that easy for my fellow Americans.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Feb 2, 2010, at 10:41 PM

Slater

I find it most interesting that 2 conservative proponents of obstructionism from each of the 2 main conservative parties, the Republicans and the Democrats, should only now begin to see the failure of conservative obstructionism.

Oh by the way, are all of those problems in our medical-care access system that were the catalyst of the attempt to overhaul our medical-care access system all cleared up now?

Well I guess we both know nothing has changed. The debate seems to be over and people are still dying because of being denied medical care access, unaffordable insurance rates, and poverty. All that debate and all that obstructionism and still nothing has changed.

Its time we stop trying to utilize failed conservative policies of both the conservative parties and try something new. I recommend we try something that has never been tried...Democratic Socialism.

It sure can't be any worse than what we have now and would probably be much better...for the middle class and the poor anyway.

One thing we do know...conservatism doesn't work.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Feb 2, 2010, at 10:30 PM

Thanks guys. It was a fun exercise. I had to keep it short because I didn't want to ramble on and on. I'm looking forward to see how well I did on the others.

-- Posted by Scarpetta on Tue, Feb 2, 2010, at 9:37 PM

I see a headline about the governor cutting $74 million from the state budget, due to declining revenues.

No small part of the declline can be attributed to giveaways to corporations, I'm sure.

The country was in pretty darn good financial shape when the Vietnam conflict became official, and then the $2-3 billion cost per month ate into LBJ's quest to eradicate poverty, or vice versa, depending on how one wishes to view it.

It's been a downhill slide since the 1960s, except for the surplus accrued during the Clinton years, when it was pay-as-we-go.

Now Obama is wanting to get back to paying as we go, but the trillion or so deficit the current administration inherited is making that goal extremely elusive, or mayybe even impossible.

Did anyone watch Charlie Rose last night? His guests were Senators Judd Greg (R) and Evan Bayh (D) who were talking about the dangers of the defecits and how they've been pleading with members of Congress to wake up and take corrective action, lest a huge bunch end up being ousted in the fall. You bet! The best thing that could happen! Bayh says the political system is broken and the citizens' tolerance of the stalemate and gridlock occurring up there is about over and Congress better wake up. He mentioned the minor stirring over Brown's election in MA, but now the indifference has settled in once again.

Greg's tone is even more foreboding about the federal bedget, saying if meaningful steps aren't taken to bring down the deficit, within five years the US will likely be unable to borrow money to stay afloat.

They both agree that Obama understands the dire nature of things, but that he and others (including the two senators) have been unable to make Congress understand. Hence the impending turnover in the fall.

I think, from their tone, they believe the public is "...mad as hell, and we're not going to take it any more!"

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Feb 2, 2010, at 8:53 PM

Wow, Goonie! I guess that puts things in place. Haven't been able to make it to very many meets this year, but when I have the Owls were wrestling as solid as I have seen them for years. They are a young team and rebuilding, but the kids that are there were doing the right things.

-- Posted by Alan J on Tue, Feb 2, 2010, at 8:25 PM

lland,

Actually you are partially right. You didn't compare wins this year to last year . . . because that didn't fit your cause. You only want to tear down, and not recognize the improvement that is there. That is a fact . . . Even though there has been a 100% improvement in wins . . . you don't care. Your true care is not about wins or losses or you would be celebrating the great improvement! Your primary concern is about "unhappy" adolescents, which you don't know how to handle. Perhaps you need to worry less about the tiny feelings of the kids around you, and worry more about the kids around you reaching their potential and what it actually takes to be a winner, everyone would be a lot better off. If you want, I'll see you at Bogey's and buy you a beer to cry in . . . and in a few years pull up a stool and buy a couple for that adolescent to cry in as well.

-- Posted by goonieboonie on Tue, Feb 2, 2010, at 8:05 PM

Scarpetta

You might not have been around for long, but your description is remarkably accurate.

You aced that class in Personality, didn't you! :)

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Feb 2, 2010, at 7:25 PM

missy08

I don't know. The whole terrorism problem in the Middle East seems to center around the Israeli occupation of the Palestinian Territories and Israeli apartheid.

I think part of the problem may be that we are ignoring successful approaches of other governments to terrorism. Take the British for example. They had enormous problems with the Irish Republican Army in Northern Ireland for many years...in fact the problem even spilled over into London where the IRA claimed responsibility for bombings that plagued Londoners for years. The Brits tried everything the could think of to stop the terrorism including the military occupation of Northern Ireland and the problem only grew worse.

Today Northern Ireland is a wonderful and peaceful place. The IRA gave up all their weapons and agreed to peace. Its a peace that has lasted more than a decade and seems to have become permanent. The Brits accomplished this by sitting down and negotiating with the terrorists. The terrorists got some reasonable concessions from the Brits and the Brits got what they wanted. In short, that strategy seems to have worked quite well.

I often wonder when we will stop trying to use a failed approach to terrorism and when we will try using the Brits successful model of engagement. It worked for them so I see no reason why it wouldn't work for us. However, I think it we are many failures away from finally admitting that negotiations work, and we will probably suffer many casualties before we finally accept that our current approach simply has no effect on terrorism.

I think perhaps AA is right in their philosophy that doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the very definition of "insanity."

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Feb 2, 2010, at 6:46 PM

Hey news, I'm not "goonie" but did you READ that? 9.6% " 'allegedly' confirmed" Wonder what the total number was? 74? But only 29 "identified"? What? I think that was exactly what W.C. Fields was talking about. "If you can't dazzle them....."

-- Posted by missy08 on Tue, Feb 2, 2010, at 6:18 PM

Scarpetta:

LOL, Not close I am afraid on the personal appearance part, not far off on the age but I am happy to say I am a couple years younger. Yes, I am the Momma bear when it comes to my cubs! Thanks for the laughs!

-- Posted by litlmissme on Tue, Feb 2, 2010, at 5:34 PM

goonieboonie

What are you thoughts on this:

"Terror adviser: All Gitmo detainees who returned to terror released by Bush"

http://rawstory.com/2010/02/terror-advis...

Pretty sad for a guy who claimed he was tough on terrorism, eh mate?

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Feb 2, 2010, at 5:25 PM

I am glad to see our woderful

Mayor move to a better position.

-- Posted by marshallguy on Tue, Feb 2, 2010, at 5:23 PM

Goonie, I didnt make a comparison in wins to last year in my post therefore I dont really see how I was wrong in stating that they are losing alot. They are..that is a fact, regardless of the reason. I also know that many of the kids that are on the team, as well as the ones that have quit, have stated that they are very unhappy with the coaching staff, whether it is the head coach or assistant coach, that wasnt mentioned, but if you assume it is the head coach (as you mentioned in your post) that is the culprit, Ill take your word for it.

-- Posted by lland on Tue, Feb 2, 2010, at 5:22 PM

Well "lland" it would do well if before you criticized the MHS wrestling staff that you got your facts straight and even had a clue of what you are talking about. They have won 2x as many dual meets this year compared to last (yes they have only won 4 duals this year but they only won 2 last year under the old head coach), and yes they had nearly 30 kids come out this year, but that was almost twice as many kids as they had the year before! At least they created more interest and got the kids to come out, though many found they weren't cut out for the sport, combined with injuries, they are down to the same numbers as the last couple years. So, get your facts straight before spouting off and trying to create some slander. When the wrestling program was already at the bottom it takes more than a year to build a solid program. As to "the really good kids" . . . oh really . . . what kids that have accomplished what? On what level? The club program has floundered for years with poor coaching and poor techniques that the kids coming into the H.S. know little and can't compete beyond rolling around in the room with their friends. "WickedWitch" (interesting name) as to competency . . . on the top of what wrestling podium have you ever stood? How many times have you had your hand held high in victory? Seriously, really, are you the judge of competency? It kills me when someone who doesn't know the difference between a spladel and a kitchen ladel tries to sit in judgment of others who have fought with blood, sweat and tears on the mat and wanna be's, who have never accomplished anything, couldn't lead a team across to the other side of a gym try to tell someone how to build a program. Coach Gaskill comes with some of the best endorsements in the state of Missouri and beyond so quit whining and lets start building.

-- Posted by goonieboonie on Tue, Feb 2, 2010, at 5:09 PM

"We simply cannot continue to spend as if deficits don't have consequences, as if waste doesn't matter," Obama said at a White House presentation. "It's time to save what we can, spend what we must and live within our means once again."

http://money.cnn.com/2010/02/01/news/eco...

Gee...I wish someone would have told the Republicans that before they created record-breaking deficits and ran our economy into the ground. Leave it to the Spend and Borrow Republicans to break the Bank!

I am glad we finally have a President willing to do what we average Americans have to do...budget our income!!

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Feb 2, 2010, at 5:05 PM

Republicans Flip-Flopping on Stimulus, Deficit Panel

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/02/...

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Feb 2, 2010, at 4:59 PM

I know some kids and parents have contacted either the AD or Coach Heinzler about what is going on...but it seems that nothing has been done as of yet.

-- Posted by lland on Tue, Feb 2, 2010, at 4:46 PM

WickedWitch, sounds like YOU have reached the opinion that the wrestling coach is incompetent. What FACTS do you rely upon in reaching that conclusion? Are YOU qualified to make that conclusion? If you REALLY had concerns, seems to me that you might share those concerns with the Athletic Director or MHS Principal, rather than just complaining anonymously!

-- Posted by OldOwl on Tue, Feb 2, 2010, at 4:33 PM

Study: Hunger in America jumps 'unprecedented' 46 percent:

"70 percent of emergency food centers face threats to their survival"

http://feedingamerica.org/faces-of-hunge...

http://rawstory.com/2010/02/study-unprec...

While conservatives in the Senate obstruct the Peoples business and ignore the very real concerns of American families, hunger begins to spread across America.

I wish someone would tell the conservatives that We the People need solutions...not obstruction!!!

I wish someone would tell the conservatives that We the People need solutions...not political games, because political games won't feed our children.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Feb 2, 2010, at 4:11 PM

I believe in respecting the coach, but I also believe that coaches and administration have an obligation to the kids to be fair and tuned in to the situation at hand. A good coach has to adjust to the circumstances or to the talent he has. Arrogance has no place on the field, the court, or the mat.

-- Posted by WickedWitch on Tue, Feb 2, 2010, at 4:08 PM

LOL Scarpetta, you made nine points about me...you were (in my opinion) right on six of the nine. Not so bad girl. ;)

Enjoyed your descriptions.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Feb 2, 2010, at 3:51 PM

OldOwl, I know that wrestling is a hard sport and that a lot of kids try and realize they arent cut out for it. I bring it up only because I have heard from many different sources that the kids are leaving because of the coach. It is also rumored that several of the really good kids say they wont be back if the coaching staff stays the same.

-- Posted by lland on Tue, Feb 2, 2010, at 3:12 PM

Sometimes the kids can't have fun if the coach is incompetent.

-- Posted by WickedWitch on Tue, Feb 2, 2010, at 3:08 PM

lland,why is it in this town that when the numbers aren't what they used to be or the team is not winning like it used to, that it has to always be the fault of the coaching staff? In my experience, it would not be unusual, especially for a sport like wrestling, for students to start the season, but not finish it. Wrestling is particularly grueling and some people (me for one)just are not made out to be wrestlers. Could it be that the wrestling program is just having an off season. It happens to nearly every program at some point in time. Just relax, let the coaches coach and the kids have fun.

-- Posted by OldOwl on Tue, Feb 2, 2010, at 3:03 PM

Has anyone addressed the situation with the MHS wrestling team? Why is it that they have went from over 30 wrestlers at the beginning of the season and now have only 10 or 12 AND seem to be losing everything. Ive heard it has to do with coaching....anyone else hear anything?

-- Posted by lland on Tue, Feb 2, 2010, at 2:27 PM

Any news on a new head football coach or athletic director?

-- Posted by OldOwlFan on Tue, Feb 2, 2010, at 1:28 PM

Time for a fresh start!

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Tue, Feb 2, 2010, at 1:24 PM


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