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Thursday, Jan. 19, 2017

Speak Out January 1 to February 2, 2010

Friday, January 1, 2010

The Marshall Democrat-News welcomes views or questions on any issue. We hope you'll express yourself freely and responsibly. We reserve the right to exclude entries that we deem disrespectful, threatening, obscene or in other ways objectionable.

Past Speak Out conversations

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I do not comment much on this site but I often read it. I find the discussions here to be very informative and occasionally enlightening. I am most concerned about the recent personal attacks that have been targeted at one of your most intelligent and coherent contributors - newsacross. Making statements about JayLeno's sketch 'The Brain' and inferring it is news across and stating God Jnr in a similar manner only serve to taint your future arguments. If you do not like what a person writes and can only answer their arguments with personal slurs then you have conceded the higher level and made yourself look ignorant. Wouldn't it be a better solution to not comment if you cannot respond with facts rather than denigrate yourself by indulging in personal abuse which also attracts others who do not have the integrity or intellectual ability to argue in a mature manner.

-- Posted by Divergent Thinker on Thu, Feb 11, 2010, at 9:47 PM

Littlemissme - I am 5'4", female and very comfortable in jeans. Those you hit the nail on the head.

Sorry for the delay in getting this posted but I have been running myself ragged. Again no disrespect intended, just my thoughts as I read posts by these users...also keep in mind I haven't been around long so I could be way off...

Slater - Male, 60-65, just less than 6 foot, retired or about to, reading glasses, looks over them at people. Short military type hair cut because it is thinning. Laid back, and enjoys family time.

News across - Male, 55-60, 6 foot tall or better, retired (only because I have read that several times) salt and pepper hair cut short and well kept. Loves to read, well liked by family and friends. He blends in well to the background unless talking about something he firmly believes in. I have often thought he puts his glasses down and walks away from the computer at times because of some users.

Oklahoma Reader - Female, 40-45, brown hair and hazels eyes, educated and a bit of a wise crack. Self employed, worked hard for what she has. Lays in wait to make a splash onto the scene and ruffle some feathers.

Littlemissme - Female, 50-55, dark hair and eyes, religious, family comes first. Loves to laugh, I see her has a laborer been at the same job 15-20 years. Gives off the everything is fine till you mess with my kids motto, strong willed but willing to look at all sides.

Mr X ray - Male, 35-40, educated but I think more in psychology/sociology, shaved head blue eyes. He comes across as cocky and standoffish yet well liked when around close friends. Not a lot of friends just a few close ones. Single, yet looking but not aggressively. TV isn't a big hobby yet enjoys working out.

-- Posted by Scarpetta on Tue, Feb 2, 2010, at 12:27 PM

"Is it money laundering to take donations from your political action committee and convert them into a royalties check through your publisher? Not if you are Alaska's favorite half-term governor."


-- Posted by news across on Tue, Feb 2, 2010, at 3:13 AM

"Fox News misrepresents US attorney recusal from O'Keefe case"


Well Fox-News...heh...there you go again...

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Feb 2, 2010, at 3:11 AM


I agree but I think that elitist control...and by that I am referring to the very top 1% of the population that own and control most of the means of production and distribution...is fleeting at best.

As history has shown us over and over again, when the masses have nothing left to lose but their lives, they will gladly surrender their lives...as long as they can take the rich with them.

The problem confronting these rich fat-cats that would usurp the American People is also their Achilles Heel...their small numbers.

No government, no matter how corrupt, no matter how powerful, can resist the will of the masses. As we saw in the French, Russian, and Chinese revolutions, when the People decide the rich have to go...the rich are gone...and then its a whole new ballgame.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Feb 2, 2010, at 3:08 AM

News across

Thanks. I sometimes think a goodly portion of my sense of humor lends a different perception to the cliche "I laughed til I cried".

I am of the opinion that our federal government has finally, after a couple of centuries of class struggle, capitulated to the elite. The result is a government by the elite for the elite. It is a faux contest between Democrats, and Republicans. Kevin Phillips who has been cited on this blog recently has a lot to say on the subject.

At this point I would exchange it for the Aussie system in a heart beat, adding a hearty good riddance to prostituted politics.

I am about to the point of believing that even if a better candidate of one party or the other was the true choice of the people, he/she would be "Diebolded" and defeated. After all, the elite also control technology.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Feb 2, 2010, at 2:36 AM


I admit it. I laughed...and I laughed pretty hard about it till it occurred to me...it would be funny...if it wasn't so true.

Thank God they don't allow lobbying politicians with campaign contributions in Australia. They can give a small contribution to the party (I think the max is $150.00 per company or person), but they can't offer campaign contributions to the individual politician.

By they way, Parliamentary Systems are not nearly as susceptible to lobbying as is the American version of Government. Here we don't vote for any specific individual but rather we cast our vote for our Party of choice, and its pretty interesting how its done. We fill the form out by hand...no Diebold here...and we get to write down our 1st Party preference, our 2nd Party preference, our 3rd Party preference, ect. If our first Preference doesn't have enough votes to win our vote goes to the next preference, then the third, and so on and so forth. In the last election there were 5 parties running and so we had 5 preferences. I much prefer it to the system we use in America. Its far less likely to be corrupted by lobbyists...especially since we don't allow lobbyists.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Feb 2, 2010, at 1:51 AM

LOBBYIST: synonym: taxidermist. One who gets under the skin, one who stuffs, (often the pockets of Congressmen), and will mount them if it is requested.

I don't know...the thought just ocurred to me. When I think further it is not at all funny. It is also an insult to taxidermists.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Feb 2, 2010, at 1:22 AM

I find it interesting that though the medical care access bill debate seems to have gone away...all the problems with medical care access in the united States that spawned the debate... are still here.

Obstructionism is never the answer.

We need solutions...not Republican/Libertarian/Teaparty obstruction!!

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Feb 2, 2010, at 12:57 AM

Americans Who've Used Canada's Health-Care System Respond to Current Big-Lie Media Campaign:


"Giuliani falsely claims that only 44 percent of prostate cancer patients survive under "socialized medicine" in England."


World's Best Medical Care?


-- Posted by news across on Tue, Feb 2, 2010, at 12:50 AM

AF Brat: It is likely that you are aware that U. S. citizens leave our country frequently for medical treatment. You post intermittently about citizens of other countries coming here for treatment. Why is it that you never mention the converse?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Feb 2, 2010, at 12:49 AM

"Rep. Obey: 'Pentagon, foreign aid not exempt from spending freeze"


-- Posted by news across on Tue, Feb 2, 2010, at 12:11 AM

AF Brat

Your statement fails to address my question which is what Government website states for a fact that 40% of working age, able bodied Americans do not pay any Federal income taxes?

Your statement that your opinion is somehow common knowledge does not even begin to address my question nor does that qualify your opinion nor does it establish any facts nor does it make you correct.

I am still waiting for the link to the source(s) of factual information that supports your erroneous claim, and I don't care if you post that information from your home, from you office, from your church, from the Republican/Libertarian/Teaparty local headquarters or any other place you may prefer to post the link from.

Until such time as you provide a credible, detailed, fact-based link to substantiate your claim it remains nothing more than your empty, unsupported, baseless opinion...and We the People need facts to evaluate the quality of important public policy decisions made by our President...not irresponsible claims based on nothing more than your empty opinion.

...and folks this is another good example of why...

The Party of NO! has got to GO!

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Feb 2, 2010, at 12:06 AM

News Across,

You ask: "Who are these 40% of Americans who pay 0% and/or $0.00 in Federal Income tax?"

I posted this information here sometime in 2009. The next time I'm in my office AND have a few idle moments, I'll look it up again. It's no secret.

-- Posted by AF Brat on Mon, Feb 1, 2010, at 10:38 PM

Running from the public option in Canada.

"Newfoundland and Labrador Premier Danny Williams is set to undergo heart surgery this week in the United States.

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/newfoundland-la...

-- Posted by AF Brat on Mon, Feb 1, 2010, at 10:33 PM

AF Brat

Who are these 40% of Americans who pay 0% and/or $0.00 in Federal Income tax?

Please include the link to the Government website that cites these "facts" (blogs are opinions...and I am not interested in opinion) that lead to no other conclusion except for the one you have drawn.

Do these alleged 40% also NOT pay state income taxes, indirect and/or direct property taxes?, and are they also exempt from all state sales tax?

I look forward to your response and the factual information showing that 40% of our citizens don't pay Federal Income tax and the breakdown of this group by income and employment status...but I bet you won't post a link to any facts...perhaps you might post a link to a blog...but I don't think there are any facts behind your claim.

Folks while neocons continue to bluster and obstruct the Peoples' Business and keep us all tied up in trivial matters...China is taking a wide lead in every facet of manufacturing, economic growth, and International Global leadership. At this rate, it may be best if we all learn to speak what may be the new international language...Chinese.

...which is another reason...

the Party Of NO!...the Party of Obstruction... has got to GO!

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Feb 1, 2010, at 10:13 PM

President Obama's new budget contains $1.9 TRILLION in tax increases. Wow. Remember that over 40% of Americans pay zero federal income tax.

Lots of news stories here.


-- Posted by AF Brat on Mon, Feb 1, 2010, at 9:19 PM


Yes, it is a fun exercise, and one I'm not very good at, I'm sure.

You were about 50/50 on me if you'd done this a couple of decades ago. :)

Thanks for the entertaining break in the action.

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Feb 1, 2010, at 10:15 AM

My husband and I thought that your views we very similar to an aquaintance of ours. He fits that description, and is a radiologist. As I said, no disrespect was intended. Just a fun exercise.

-- Posted by litlmissme on Mon, Feb 1, 2010, at 5:25 AM


I haven't called you anything but confused. Your comment was not the first in which you assumed I am a Democrat. I am not. As I have said many times before...I am an independent and a proud liberal. If I was to join any party it would be the Democratic Socialists...but that is a topic for another discussion for another time.

For now, like many millions of other American frustrated by years of failed conservative policies and years of conservative obstructionism, I too am tired of conservatives refusing to even accept responsibility for their own failures and for failing our Nation.

Its time for the Party of NO! to GO!

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Feb 1, 2010, at 2:11 AM

Paul Krugman to Fox News CEO: 'Deliberate misinformation'

with video


-- Posted by news across on Mon, Feb 1, 2010, at 2:05 AM


just shows how much you are not up on the education in our nation. it is not a one party get the most blame it is a problem that is always used as a talking point or a campaign issue but an issue that no one really wants to solve.

It was your boy Obama that ended a pretty successsfull program in DC for inner city children and they based that decision simply on the fact that it was using vouchers... you know that word that is EVIL to a Liberal such as yourself.

The only person confused is yourself, especially if you really think you know me well enough to call me a republican, bush voting robot... or what ever term you want to use.

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Feb 1, 2010, at 1:56 AM


LOL WHY a shaved head? lol and why so short?

Mr. X-ray: Male, 30-35, shaved head, 5'7, radiology consultant, 175 lbs-190.

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Feb 1, 2010, at 1:50 AM

Its pretty sad when the big cheerleaders who always vote Republican all of sudden pointed at Bush in 2009 and said, "oh that is some other Republican Party" and as if that wasn't bad enough they have even tried to disguise themselves by calling themselves "Teapartiers". They call themselves many things in an attempt to distance themselves from the very policies they fully supported during the Bush Administration.

Folks the Republicans under Bush are the same Republicans under Steele...don't buy the hype. Same people -- same Party -- same failed policies -- same obstruction of YOUR business.

Its time we try something new...'cause as they say in AA, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results IS the definition of insanity!

...the Party of NO! has got to Go!

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Feb 1, 2010, at 1:41 AM


Republicans have controlled the majority of State legislatures and local school boards for a generation...more than any other party over the last 30 years...particularly in those states (Southern States) who are lagging most behind the rest of the Country...so yeah...I blame the Republicans and their fellow travelers the conservatives. Especially since its so obvious they are responsible for the education mess.

As to Pelosi or any other Democrat and me...I think you are a bit confused sonny boy...I am liberal...not a conservative...and I am darn sure not a Democrat. I am an Independent. Pelosi and her bunch are way too conservative for me. The fact is we have 3 primary conservative parties...the ultra-right wing represented by the Libertarians, the Republican Party, and the "conservative-light Democrats. Given the choice between the two main conservative parties, of course my vote goes to the lessor of two evils...the Democrats

...and yeah xray, you will be hearing it more and more sonny boy...the Party of NO! has to GO!

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Feb 1, 2010, at 12:58 AM


so now you are saying that the state of our educational system and facilities is the fault of the republican party alone? I find that laughable. But we dont expect anything different from a person who cannot get away from echoing Pelosi/Obama and the whole Party of No misinformation propaganda.

The people grow tired of political hacks in DC and those that echo them and their sound bites

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Feb 1, 2010, at 12:25 AM

Slater: Thanks for the tasty Miles...I particularly enjoyed my man Coltrane's solo.

Lilmissme: Not very close...sorry.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Feb 1, 2010, at 12:12 AM

Also xray,

The Supreme Court has the exclusive right to interpret our Constitution and our laws. I think you are confusing interpretation with legislation...they are in fact different.

However, I do realize many neocons have great difficulty understanding the difference and I blame our lousy education system on that and those who have kept our schools dirt poor and operating on a shoes string budget

...which is why I believe...the Party of NO! Has Got to Go!

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jan 31, 2010, at 10:53 PM


If our SC continues to overturn its own rulings, we won't have a legal system because case law will be finished and precedents won't mean a thing...and believe me you don't want that. However, I don't see that happening anytime soon and the majority that supports a woman's right to own and control her own body exclusively aren't likely to change that anytime soon either.

As to relaxing...mate if you saw where and how I live...you would realize I stay relaxed...and why I stay relaxed...lol lol lol...

See ya in the funny pages mate!

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jan 31, 2010, at 10:48 PM

news across... dont be so sensitive... I acknowledged it was probably a typo.

As for me being on the SC I know I am not. But until the Supreme court takes it away (lol) I have the right to read about the SC and make logical determinations about issues like this.

Just as you put down the SC for INTERPRETING the constitutionality of a portion of the McCain/feingold bill and over turning said portion, I too can have the same type of opinion when the SC made its ruling about abortion

But anyone who knows history knows that the SC often does overstep its bounds and makes laws that are political and more on the legislative side of things as opposed to strictly intepreting law and the constitution.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Jan 31, 2010, at 10:38 PM


It was a typo...i think you knew that.

The 6th month of a pregnancy is the first month of the 3rd trimester at which time the fetus becomes a person with legal rights under our Constitution as interpreted by the High Court in Rove V Wade.

As to your interpretation of our Constitution, you certainly have the right to believe anything you want...as long as you obey the law.

You have never been selected to be on the Supreme Court nor have you been confirmed to sit on the High Court and until you are...the right of a woman to retain full control and ownership of her body will continue. If you don't like the law then change it...but until then...your opinion is only important to you and others including many of your fellow neocons who agree with you and has no other significant relevance.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jan 31, 2010, at 10:29 PM

mrxray posted: "Stimulus is not solving anything, just delaying the inevitable and increasing the effect of the inevitable."

You've got that right.

-- Posted by AF Brat on Sun, Jan 31, 2010, at 10:17 PM

Newsacross.... maybe you know of some other medical terminology, but human pregnancies have 3 trimesters not 6....probably a typo but it made me think... lol

I think the Supreme Court overstepped its bounds when there was historical precedent in the writings of the time in which our constitution was written that reflected that abortion was not a right considered as there were many anti-abortion laws on the books at that time. Even if you think the constitution is silent on the issue, they should have returned a decision that made it an issue for state law and state or federal legislation allowing the democratic processes available.

The arbitary statement that life of a fetus is viable at some specific time period during the pregnancy is not even realistic, especially since modern neo-natal medicine is allowing babies to be born at earlier and earlier stages. Since there is no science to confirm 100% for sure when a fetus becomes mentally functiona or physically viable then to NOT err on the side of life falls outside the realm of civilized thinking that I find it very ironicly sad.

When you think of the laws on the book that allow for a person who murders a pregnant mother to be charged with two homicides and you compare it to legalized abortion you have to see the hypocritical stance that society is being asked to take. Either saving the potential life is important or it is not.

There are proponents of the thought that a baby is not a human life and cognizant until varying lengths of time after birth. Some say 6 months or more.

I have more of an issue with the SC creating legislation with the abortion issue than the actual making abortion legal. Any other issue would have been left for the states and their legislative process to decide.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Jan 31, 2010, at 10:10 PM


Stimulus is not solving anything, just delaying the inevitable and increasing the effect of the inevitable.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Jan 31, 2010, at 9:49 PM


A developing fetus is not a person. Only in the 6th trimester does the fetus reach the point of viability...being able to live outside the womb with out having to depend on the mother.

If we are going to call every potential living human reproductive cell such as human eggs or the male contribution a "person with rights", then anytime such material is flushed down a toilet or anytime a woman has "that time of the month" we would be committing murder under your defintion. Under the 13th Amendment slavery is unlawful and prohibited. Under the 14th Amendment, a person's body belongs only to that person and no other person and no government.

We have to draw a line somewhere and the High Court has drawn that line based on medical facts...the point of viability which is at 6 months.

While that may offend some folks, a woman still retains absolute ownership of her body and has the right to make all her own medical decisions...and with the guidance of her physician if she chooses. No matter how that may upset those who think they have the right to own and control a woman's body, it is the law. We The People will not allow these folks to re-institute slavery under any conditions.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jan 31, 2010, at 9:04 PM

Not at all. You see the world is not as clear to me as it seems to be for you. Especially when it comes to snuffing out the life of an unborn child.

-- Posted by broke-n-busted on Sun, Jan 31, 2010, at 8:48 PM

Americans charged with child trafficking


"The director of the charity now watching the children told NBC News that one child said she still had parents and was only expecting a brief vacation."



"...some of the kids have living parents, who were apparently told the children were going on a holiday from the post-quake misery."


Kidnapping...even with the best of intentions...is still kidnapping and is still a criminal act.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jan 31, 2010, at 8:44 PM


No disconnect there at all mate.

In Roe v Wade and all subsequent rulings by the High Court, they clearly state that a fetus have does not have any legal rights under our Constitution prior to the last trimester. In addition, the Courts have ruled that a fetus does not become a person until it reaches the point of viability...which is 6 months. The High Court further ruled that States ARE free to regulate abortion in the last trimester (6 months and beyond) (http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=410&invol=113).

I hope that answers your question.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jan 31, 2010, at 8:29 PM

And the body of the unborn infant? To whom does this body belong? What rights does this body have? I understand what you are saying news and I'm not going to argue the point but there seems to be a huge disconnect there.

-- Posted by broke-n-busted on Sun, Jan 31, 2010, at 8:18 PM


Probably but I didn't write the article.

Its one I read and found interesting.

I know I certainly agree with Brown in this matter and of course I support our 14th Amendment which establishes the only a woman has exclusive control and ownership of her own body...and the State has no rights to control her body. Her body belongs to her and her only.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jan 31, 2010, at 5:56 PM

News, I'm sure he does, considering his background.

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Jan 31, 2010, at 5:51 PM

Senator-Elect Brown Supports Abortion Rights


-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jan 31, 2010, at 5:46 PM

Pat Tillman cover-up focus of Sundance documentary

"the 27-year-old had died in a friendly fire incident and senior US Army commanders conspired to cover it up, in an attempt to use Tillman as a propaganda tool."


-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jan 31, 2010, at 5:43 PM

China Leading Global Race to Make Clean Energy


While the conservatives are so busy obstructing progress and legislation in our Country, the Chinese are busy becoming the most important and influential Nation in the World.

...yet another reason the Party of NO! has got to GO!

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jan 31, 2010, at 5:09 PM


Not even close...but nice try.

I am almost 6 foot, full head of hair, brown -- no gray, and I don't work since I am financially independent...not rich...just middle class...but no longer have to work...so I am not a professor. In fact, I think if you should ever meet me on the street you would be very surprised to see what I look like lol.

But it was a great try litlmissme!

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jan 31, 2010, at 4:27 PM

Even though I do not post every day, I read the blog every day. With no disrespect intended; these are what I believe the following persons look like.

Slater: Male, 6 foot or taller, very slender, brown eyes, pop bottle lenses glasses approximately 60-65 years old, long hair for someone of your age group. Probably worked as a boss in some capacity.

News across: Male, 5'6, sandy blonde hair, but balding, blue eyes, nicely built, 55-60 years old, professor.

Oklahoma Reader: Male, 55-60 years old, possibly on the city council, a bit heavy for your 5'8 but not obese, dark hair, brown eyes.

Nana dot: Female, 60ish, aging very gracefully, worked as a secretary or receptionist most of her life. 5'4", works hard to maintain an average weight, wears dresses and pant suits more frequently than jeans.

Scarpetta: Female A teacher 40-45, down to earth farm girl, happy in jeans. Has at least one cat. Has a pleasant smile. I picture dark brown hair, brown eyes. Average weight. 5'4.

Mr. X-ray: Male, 30-35, shaved head, 5'7, radiology consultant, 175 lbs-190.

-- Posted by litlmissme on Sun, Jan 31, 2010, at 3:53 PM

OKR - this is for you, and for any others who have an affinity for musical creation:


-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Jan 31, 2010, at 2:15 PM

mrxray wrote: "A better approach would be to only allow ONE issue to be in a bill and not allow any other items or pork to be hidden in the bill so that the public cannot see them."

Minnesota HAS such a law. It has been applied successfully in just two cases. Both parties ignore it.

BTW, the Congress is much worse than any state legislature in larding up bills.

-- Posted by AF Brat on Sun, Jan 31, 2010, at 1:12 PM

Miss Marple:

I actually have such a crazy life that I never am up at the same time for more than one or two days at a time...lol

I am hopefully going to get to take a nap in about 2 hours or so.

Good morning to you.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Jan 31, 2010, at 6:27 AM

For all:

Did I see that there was a bill passed in either the House or the Senate in December that will allow up to 4 TRILLION MORE dollars to be BORROWED from China and other nations so that we can have another unemployment stimulus bill?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Jan 31, 2010, at 6:25 AM


I find it humorus that you think the past 8 years of Bush was somehow based on conservative 'morals'

I think, as rational adults, we all know politicians, for the most part dont have morals. Their only value system is based on what they think should be said in order to get re-elected.

I find it sadly mind-numbingly ignorant to try to claim that somehow the left has more 'morals' than the right or vice versa.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Jan 31, 2010, at 6:23 AM

mrxray, you're welcome. I see you're an early riser, too.

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Sun, Jan 31, 2010, at 6:17 AM

Here is a VERY partisan link to an article discussing Obama and his FAILURE to uphold his campaign promises or the CON game he played during his campaign. YES I know that most candidates promise things that they do not follow through on.... But obama seems to try to ignore the fact that he is failing those promises.


-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Jan 31, 2010, at 6:15 AM

Miss Marples:

Thanks for the tip about searching.

And that was the post I had read... again, I was not really asking you the question specifically, just in general for anyone to answer.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Jan 31, 2010, at 6:13 AM

What the f....

Get over yourself. I have never stated anything that remotely suggests that I want Bush and Cheney back.

Again, way to use the leftists favorite tool of stereotyping and dishonest assumptions and statements... Good job

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Jan 31, 2010, at 6:12 AM


Interesting article about the current economic crisis and the problems we are going to have down the road with our national debt which, if the government passes another trillion dollar stimulus bill, will be worse.

Confidence is such an interesting and scary economic term

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Jan 31, 2010, at 6:09 AM

Oklahoma Reader

I saw that one...but I try not to think about Pelosi and I don't care any more for her than the neocons do (she is way too conservative for me). I am a proud liberal but I am NOT a Democrat. I find the Democrats to be far to conservative for my tastes. In fact, if I had to join a political party, it would be the Democratic Socialists. But as it is, I am an independent. However, unlike the Party of NO!, I am willing to compromise for the good of our Nation. So I try to save my postings for the things I think are the most important.

And what some folks might not realize is that I actually have to choose carefully when I am busy posting links because I don't like to post anymore than 3 a day. I realize folks do have better things to do than read linked articles all day.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jan 31, 2010, at 2:34 AM

Aikman8 you are gonna love the link I am posting. Don't be provoked, and skip it because it is a web site that NewsAcross often provides as a link. This one is about that lady that Conservatives love to hate, Nancy Pelosi. Subject: Money grubbing for corporate donations. She gets ripped. http://rawstory.com/2010/01/lobbyist-cha...

Incidentally it indicates that this link, one of NewsAcross' favorites, is fair, and balanced, taking on the corrupt whether left or right. It would have been ironic if you had chosen to read the links he provided to the site, you had found material to support your own point of view when contesting his.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jan 31, 2010, at 12:01 AM


Whether I am right or wrong...that is my impression.

...and I am not alone.

There is another person that reads this forum and the MD religiously/daily, but he is someone who never posts a comment here. He also has a very high opinion you and he loves reading your comments. He and I often talk about many of the comments in this forum and he knows the regulars by name. We often laugh together at some of the comments...including some of my own...and he was raised in Marshall, went to school in Marshall, and could tell us all stories about Marshall that happened way before most of us were born . He knows Marshall well and is a dedicated reader of the MD.

...and he thinks you are the sharpest tool in this shed.

I agree with him.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 11:54 PM

Hey Upsedaisy! How good to see you again! Weather here is delightful! Currently +37F. :)

Well, I WAS going to invite some of you to join me for a howl at the moon last night, but no one was astir, so it was just me and the cat. :)

Heh heh...OKR, one of us has to be optimistic! Haven't packed away your snowshoes yet?

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 11:51 PM

News, your physical description of me was rather canny. As to the subjective I suppose that is a matter of perspective. At any rate thank you for your favorable opinion. I value it.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 11:35 PM

Upsedaisy I missed the power outage, most of it is to the south of me. I did catch Slater's comment, but I ain't believin it.

We have had jonquils, and daffodils all over our back yard for twenty years. Always before this year, at least some have popped up by late January. I am beginning to think that their absence may be the harbinger of an extended very cold winter.

At least I trust the daffodils more than I do that pie in the sky optimist Slater. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 11:21 PM

Oklahoma Reader

I love your suggestion to Scarpetta and I think it would be great if we all did that. It would be great for laughs.

I would begin with you my friend.

I think you are tall, very dignified, short-well trimmed mixed Grey and brown hair, very well dressed, and I see you as a great intellectual with an excellent moral compass...a person who does the right thing because its the right thing to do.

...and I would bet I am not alone in that.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 11:19 PM

aikman8 says,

"call them tea baggers if you want ... i call them realists."

He clearly is ignoring the fact that these neocons were the same ones tell us that the Democrats were pro-increased taxes when in fact just before that the Democrats passed the largest tax-cut in the history of our Nation -- while every single neocon in Congress voted against it.

Is that what aikman8 means when he calls these neocons "realists?"

Apparently aikman8 uses a far different meaning of the word "realist" than most of the rest of us do.

...The Party of NO! has got to Go!

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 11:13 PM

Aikman8 speak for yourself, but not for everyone on the blog. I read NewsAcross posts, I read your posts. I think it is hyperbole for you to say no one reads News' posts or links.

I enjoy the give, and take. It keeps me aware of what folks of all political persuasion are thinking, and saying. It at times keeps me from becoming too stubborn about my own opinions.

Scarpetta it would be interesting for you to describe in capsule what you imagine the appearance, age, gender, etc. various posters exhibit. Whatever is your image of each?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 11:11 PM

Slater those Koalas can scratch. They look cute. A "loaner" Panda at the National zoo is being recalled to China. Wonder if OKR has power? He may miss your message about spring being just around the corner. I'm waiting to see if the February Gold daffodils live up to their usual bloom time by February 1st. Brave souls but definitely a harbinger of spring. Hope it is warm in San Antone.


-- Posted by upsedaisy on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 10:51 PM


1.) I never said I was going to post my name here nor do I think it would matter one way or the other. I was merely responding to another person who wondered how many of us would if we had to do so in order to comment.

2) We The People have seen conservative "morals" in action for 8 years...the conservatives lied us into war for the hidden purpose of controlling Iraqi oil, broke our laws routinely and with out remorse (Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 118 and Title 50, Chapter 36 just to name a couple), imprisoned some of our citizens arrested here inside the United States in military prisons and held them incommunicado, denied them an attorney, denied them even one day in court to ask a judge why they were being held (IE: Jose Padilla) in direct violation of Ex Parte Mulligan and our Constitution, butchered as many as 1 million Iraqi non-combatant civilians...55% of whom the current Iraqi Government estimates were women and children, killed over 4000 of our men and women and all based on a lie, made torture a standard American practice, and collapsed our economy. using neoclassical economic policies.

yeah we know all about your "conservative values" and that is why we voted your party out of power...twice so far.

3.) Now, despite the fact that We the People overwhelming elected President Obama - and thus he represents the will of the majority, the neocons/conservatives/tea-what ever/Republican Party want to obstruct the People's business in the Senate and stop all progress and any hope of getting out of the economic mess the neocons created.

...and that is why I say... the Party of NO! has to Go!

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 10:49 PM

I think if people had to post their real names, some would continue to post and some would not.

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 5:38 PM


Miss Marple

Yes I am sure there are some who would continue to post...that is the what the empirical evidence indicates anyway.

I know I certainly would continue to post my comments.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 5:58 PM


ok, go for it news, post your name, let's see how wonderful and brave you are. don't really care, i've come to log on to this place about once a month now cuz it's so radical, but let's see it, since you mentioned it.

by the way, just scrolled through things .. all the links to stories you have been posting lately, it's very boring, no one takes the time to click on those ... yawwwwwwwwwn ... i know i've scrolled over ALL of them, no one has time or interest to read them. there is nothing more boring online than to read a link someone has posted.

your dribble of the party of NO! that has to GO! ... we happen to have morals and principles and just won't go along with what the dear leader inexperienced slimeball chicago politician barack says is the word. sorry bout that my man. make up whatever cute phrase you want, just don't care.

as henslinger said the other day ... i agree with 80% of what obama says ... but disagree with 80% of what he does. in other words ... the man is all talk. all fluff. says one thing, does another. he has an incredible credibility gap going on, and that's going to be hard to overcome.

as far as i'm concerned, obama and his administration showed their true colors his first year in office. I will never believe the man again, he has no credibility or truthfullness about him. great speaker, promises alot, but does just the opposite. he pretty much gave control of things over to pelosi and reid, which proves he is a weak leader. that's gonna come back to bite him in the booty.

we'll see where things go in early november.

call them tea baggers if you want ... i call them realists.

-- Posted by aikman8 on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 10:27 PM

Hey HootOwls! Spring is just around the corner!

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 10:23 PM

Recently someone mentioned to me that February is Adopt A Koala month. Any truth to that, News? :)

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 10:21 PM


I agree with you 100%

...and don't worry friend, the police would never tolerate you, me, or anyone else becoming a target of a criminal for any reason...and especially not for exercising your rights under the 1st Amendment.

This way you can save your ammo for better things like rabbit or deer hunting.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 10:11 PM

Agreed news, I concur that I don't believe that would ever happen either. Nor did I think I suggested it by my post.

I would go as far as to say that, in my personal opinion, having screen names makes this more interesting for me. I can base my own opinion of what I think a person looks like or even if they are male or female. I guess I use the words to form my own mental picture. I have one for almost all of the regulars.

I don't need an ocean either, I call on the Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States.

-- Posted by Scarpetta on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 9:00 PM


I am not suggesting at all that people start posting personal information in this or any other publication including... their real names.

In fact, the publication of personal information by a newspaper or any other media might very well come dangerously close to violating well established laws regarding slander/liable... since truth is not an accepted defense to such torts in the case of printing privileged information regarding private individuals who do not make their living in the public eye. I think its safe to say that in no way would Eric ever put or allow the MD to be put in such a precarious position.

I believe that the current MD policy of allowing anonymity of commentators in this forum is the correct policy and one which I fully support.

On an unrelated note, I don't require an ocean to protect me from the crazies. That is the job of the police and is such no matter where I happen to be standing.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 8:23 PM

The vast ocean protects you news from the loonies that Slater speaks of. However some of us in the town might not be as willing to post our real names. I can only speak for myself, and I make it a rule to not say anything I wouldn't say to ones face. I am who I am, if you don't like that...too bad for you.

Although hiding behind a screen name can speak more of a person than their actual name. No one knows if I am male or female, 54 years old or 21 years old, unemployed or riding high on the horse...or if I fall no where in between.

-- Posted by Scarpetta on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 7:58 PM


Yes, liberty certainly has a price...but I think its a price most of us are willing to pay for that which we hold so dear.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 6:35 PM

Survey the locals and see how many would sign their names.

Paranoia runs deep, but it's forced upon us by all the loonies allowed to freely move about the country.

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 6:33 PM

Miss Marple

Yes I am sure there are some who would continue to post...that is the what the empirical evidence indicates anyway.

I know I certainly would continue to post my comments.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 5:58 PM

I think if people had to post their real names, some would continue to post and some would not.

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 5:38 PM


Remaining silent in the face of tyranny is never courteous...or wise.


-- Posted by news across on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 5:34 PM

Pass it On, asks,

"Do you think anyone would post on the newspaper blog if you had to sign your name?"

The answer, based on hundreds of years of empirical evidence is absolutely yes!

People have been sending letters to the editors of newspapers for years and most publications require the persons name and address in order to publish the letters...and yet they send the letters to the editors anyway...so we already know the answer to that question.

It matters not if an angry reader knows a commentator's name when they are posting. Removing anonymity won't change the message. In fact, I can't see where readers knowing the name of a commentator would make any difference at all because its not like there is anything an angry reader could do about a comment they disagree with...other than a civilized response in writing in the same publication. I realize there are some crazies out there that might contemplate committing a crime against the commenter, but such an undertaking is fraught with danger.

Take for example a commenter like myself who lives on the other side of the World posting a comment that angers some crazed reader, the problem confronting the angry reader would be further compounded in terms of any illicit response by time, distance, and the laws of the nation that I live in.

For example, a traveler coming into Australia for the purpose of committing a crime here...especially a violent crime against one of our citizens...would quickly find themselves detained, prosecuted, and imprisoned very quickly...then deported back to their country of origin after they had served their years in prison here to face possible further prosecution in their country of origin. In fact, such an attempt on the part of some crazed reader to do such a thing might very well be classified in the category of International Terrorism...making the penalty much more severe.

So I certainly can't see what difference posting a person's real name along with their comment would make.

What sparks my curiosity is why anyone would even ask a question like the one Pass it On asks.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 5:31 PM

News Across,

You confound courtesy with censorship. (Snarky remark held back).


-- Posted by AF Brat on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 5:21 PM

Do you think anyone would post on the newspaper blog if you had to sign your name? Just wondering.

-- Posted by Pass it On on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 4:39 PM

To those neocons who would limit our right to free speech...if they could, all I have to say is...


The American People want their business done in the Senate and the House. In order to do this, the legislation must come up for a straight up or down vote and let the chips lie where they fall.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 4:38 PM

Now AFB wants to limit free speech.

Well AFB is a conservative...so no surprises there.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 4:31 PM

By the way, was anyone able to see the courthouse lights through the recent fog?

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 4:20 PM

It's the "Mr. Xray Show"! Yes! Bring back Bush and Cheney!

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 12:44 PM

New rule of thumb. ;-)

If AF Brat takes a position, Miss Marple will take the opposite.

-- Posted by AF Brat on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 11:19 AM

I think newsacross should be able to use that slogan freely if he wants to. Next thing you'll want to restrict is how many times anyone can post...and on and on and on. Once begun, censorship always keeps going. The party of NO has got to GO! :)

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 10:57 AM

News Across keeps posting this slogan: "The Party of NO! has got to Go!". I'll bet he has done it 20 times in January alone. We all know it by now.

As a courtesy and to save our time and the MDN's bandwidth, how about an unofficial policy of 3 repeats per month of any slogan. It's not like there's any new content or other sound reason for the repetition.

-- Posted by AF Brat on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 10:04 AM

Mrxray, I think I see see what you're referring to. In an exchange with news across, I referred to Kevin Phillips' books and used the phrase "economic equality," which to me means that everyone should have an equal shot at economic stability, regardless of their race, gender, etc.. and unhindered by skewed policies that bias the game in favor of the already-rich. I don't usually comment on strictly political stuff like that, because I don't think I'm fully qualified to discuss it in depth, but I do admire Phillips' work.

Here's how you can find comments: If you're working on a PC, hold down your control key and type the letter F (for FIND). That brings up a search box you can use. If you're on a Mac, you can use the command key to do the same thing. It's very useful :).

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 9:00 AM

I have to love the totally disingenuous idea that the conservative side of the house was the cause of this economic disaster. While it was caused by many things snowballing, were it not for the feel good, but stupid, idea that all people should have the right to a home loan that they could not afford, and that in order for this right to be achieved, the DEMOCRATS pushed the community reinvestment act and its subsequent rules and policies, which created Federal government coercion of local banks to make these stupid loans, then none of this would have been able to have happened. THEN, anytime REPUBLCIANS and CONSERVATIVES warned of the consequences, the likes of Franks, Dodd and the LIBERAL Democrats called it fear mongering and claimed that their favored institutions of Fannie/Freddie were fine and the economy was in NO risk.

Not sure how the Left is successful in their dodging of the blame for this recession, but the facts are still there even if you dont want to be honest and acknowledge them.

Was there greedy actions on other entities behalves? Sure. But that is what is called UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES of bad policies.

I know I know, News across you will have something to say about how the left had nothing to do with this.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 8:17 AM

Miss Marple: my question was not directed at you and I qualified my statement with the comment that it might not have been you, or I thought it was you... but the question was just up for discussion, not meant to be directed at you.

lol I just cannot find the post that I read in all the 100s of posts on here.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 8:10 AM

I love the stupid idea that somehow being republican or conservative makes you an obstructionist simply because they oppose Obamacare and other liberal agendas that will do nothing to actually SOLVE a social issue but WILL increase national debt, unemployment and further harm our economy.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 8:03 AM

Newsacross, I also love how your "self thought intelligence" allows you to clump all people together in stereotypes. I thought the left was above that. The whole "party of no" as someone else pointed out will be the Dem part when they lose power and that label is nothing but propaganda rhetoric that is not based on anything factual.

What you want is for the Left to have their way without any debate and without consideration of any alternatives, big government spending and borrowing us into economic oblivion. BUT when the Dems are not in power you would be screaming just the opposite... again the typical hypocritical thought process of the left, and yes ALL politicians of both sides.

Your biasedness shows your lack of intellectual honesty

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 8:01 AM

Newsacross... again with the distortions... corporations are multinational, some are some are not. BUT the point regarding the Supreme Court decision is still not affecting ANYTHING you are talking about. Prior to this decision SOME corps could contribute and pay for their own ads regarding issues and campaigns IF they owned news outlets. Prior to this decision, the corporations that owned news outlets WERE multinational corporations so they were EXEMPT from the McCain Feingold act. Prior to this decision, corporations could and DID find ways around it. They contributed to 527s and used other loop holes.... your misinformed or intentional distortion of facts mirrors that of Obama, as many fact checkers stated after the State of the Union.

You love to bash the Republicans, and many of them need bashing, but you are so hypocritical in your complete and utter love for the left and their propaganda and their intentional distortion of this whole issue. What the LEFT is mad about is the fact that the Unions and Community Organizing groups no longer have an edge. Instead, after the SC decision ALL corps are treated equally. AGAIN, nothing was changed regarding the foreign contributions......

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 7:57 AM

mrxray, please feel free to prove me wrong, but I don't think I said anything about any right to equality of income. I don't usually get involved in those kinds of discussions.

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 6:52 AM


Most large American corporations are in fact multi-national corporations...such as Citco oil who's primary stockholder is Venezuela.

Also, I find it rather interesting that when the neocons were in power, Republican/neocon Senate Majority Leader, Senator Frisk, loved the idea of changing rule 22 in order to get Alito confirmed by a simple majority. Frisk referred to it as the "Nuclear Option."

You neocons sure did support the idea then because you held over 51 seats in the Senate at the time. Gee how come all of a sudden you neocons don't think its a good idea?

I support the Peoples' legislation all going up for a straight up or down vote no matter who is the majority. Let them vote and let the chips lie where they land.

The fact is xray you and your fellow conservatives want no Democratic legislation to pass at all because you think it benefits you neocons and your fellow travelers, the Republican Party politically. Take for example the fact that EVERY single Republican/neocon in Congress voted AGAINST the largest tax cut in the history of our Nation...yet you claim you support reducing taxes. It was just another example of conservative obstructionism in an attempt to embarrass the Democrats...yet we passed it with out any of you anyway.

You don't care one iota of how your obstructionism affects the American People. You only care about the next election cycle and winning seats in Congress.

xray...that's a good name for you mate, because We the People see right through your phony claims and arguments.

...another good reason The Party of NO! has got to Go!

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 5:36 AM

The president's statement is false.

The Court held that 2 U.S.C. Section 441a, which prohibits all corporate political spending, is unconstitutional. Foreign nationals, specifically defined to include foreign corporations, are prohibiting from making "a contribution or donation of money or ather thing of value, or to make an express or implied promise to make a contribution or donation, in connection with a Federal, State or local election" under 2 U.S.C. Section 441e, which was not at issue in the case. Foreign corporations are also prohibited, under 2 U.S.C. 441e, from making any contribution or donation to any committee of any political party, and they prohibited from making any "expenditure, independent expenditure, or disbursement for an electioneering communication..."

Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tom-blumer/...

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 5:09 AM

Government run or subsidized railroads? LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

have we not wasted away billions of dollars propping up Amtrak? THAT is the big economic plan? LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

the usual Left distortion of facts is happening here as well. The Supreme Court decision has nothing to do with overturning any laws that makes it illegal to receive foreign campaign donations. If you want to look at this issue indepth, then you first need to look at Obama's campaign and how they avoided answering any questions about the money that came from foreign source.

The point is not to argue about if Obama did or did not get foreign donations, but that it is FACT that it has not been investigated properly and more to the issue of the SC decision, since Obama claims that foreign money will influence campaigns (Wrongly stated as the case did not change the laws preventing money from foreign sources) Obama must know that it IS possible to get around that law as his own campaign did it already even before this law was overturned.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 5:09 AM

I am not going to go and read all of the comments... but I have this thing to ask

Miss Marples (I think) said something about this

WHERE in the world do you come up with the concept that there is some inherent right that all people are economically equal?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 4:57 AM

I disagree xray,

I think We the People are tired of conservative obstructionism.

I believe We the People want legislation to go to a straight up or down vote as the Founding Fathers intended.

Considering you are a self-stated conservative, and thus a supporter of obstructionism in an attempt to prevent the Democrats from passing the People's legislation, I am not surprised that you want the Party of NO to continue to obstruct the will of The People.

Its another good reason... The Party of NO! has to GO!

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 4:41 AM

Senate Rule 22: Do we really want to RUSH policies and legislation? or do we want fair and well thought out legislation that attempts to take into consideration long term and unintended consequences?

A better approach would be to only allow ONE issue to be in a bill and not allow any other items or pork to be hidden in the bill so that the public cannot see them. All legislation should be public weeks or months prior to voting so that the people can have time to contact their legislators after having enough time to study the purposed bill unless it is a true emergency.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 4:20 AM

Newsacross, once again in typical liberal fashion, you run with an MSNBC/Obama news network story, that is not based on facts....

If you read about what is being alleged, it is not wire tapping but something about those guys trying to video tape Senator Landrieu and her office flunkies NOT answering the phone that they claimed was too busy to answer....They actually only video taped their visit to her office and MSNBC and other main stream, NON journalistic news outlets have had to correct and retract statements that were made in haste to "get back" at James, the acorn smasher, O'Keefe

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 4:15 AM


You quoted, very lemmingly like, obama from his speech about the Republican party being obstructionists... that is funny considering that the Dems had a majority in Congress, and the 60 vote majority in the house and they still could not pass anything. What this indicates to me is that Dem party could not get THEIR act together and pass a bill when they did not NEED the aid of the other party to do so.

The whole idea of calling the Repubs the party of NO is so disingenuous that only a Liberal Lemming would do it.

Anyway, your point about Americans not knowing enough about the political system and the nation's business is valid. But that is what you get with the liberal education system that the Federal government pushes right?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 4:08 AM

news across.... you are sounding more and more as looney as Pelosi and her ilk.

If you are trying to deny that the Dems and liberal politicians are not as whacky and corrupt as the Repubs then you completely have your head in the sand.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 4:02 AM

WOLF MOON, that is the name for the January Full Moon.....

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 4:00 AM

Anybody out there want to talk basketball?

-- Posted by WickedWitch on Fri, Jan 29, 2010, at 9:41 PM

GOP passes proposal requiring candidate loyalty to party platform

"The Republican National Committee has passed a resolution denying financial support to any GOP candidate who does not endorse the party platform."


Interestingly enough, Adolf Hitler did the same thing...and we know how well that worked out.

...and so yet another reason The Party of NO! has to GO!

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jan 29, 2010, at 8:53 PM

Miss Marple suspects foul play when a friend is supposedly frightened to death by a cat.

Murder at the Gallop - TCM Saturday 9pm central.

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Jan 29, 2010, at 7:12 PM

AF Brat

Thanks for the heads up on the bright moon tonight.

I will definitely be checking it out!

I just can't resist the opportunity to check it out. I love astronomy.

Again, thanks AFB!

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jan 29, 2010, at 7:00 PM

Act fast or you'll miss it. Biggest and brightest full moon of 2010 will be out tonight.

-- Posted by AF Brat on Fri, Jan 29, 2010, at 4:49 PM

Mr. Editor,

Why don't you do some kind of story about what is happening at the police department? I hear they had to get rid of a cop because he was twice caught driving a cop car without a driver's license. Isn't this a crime? Was he writing tickets to the public while he was breaking the law? How does this happen one time much less twice? Sounds like a cover up to me. I hear there is even a good story on why he lost his license. This has to be news that needs to be reported to the public.

-- Posted by TheSilentVoice on Fri, Jan 29, 2010, at 4:39 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
We'll inquire. Past experience suggests that unless the employee who was terminated wishes to tell his story, we won't get much information. Thanks for letting us know.


Arny says he is going to veto it but the Cal Senate said they don't care what he does. They passed it anyway. I think its pretty likely that Arny...who is up for re-election this year...will find that the voters of Cal will be vetoing him this year lol.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jan 29, 2010, at 4:31 PM

Thanks for posting that news. Let California grab the bulls by the horn, lots of good stuff coming out of that state!! Maybe this will get other states to step up to the plate.

-- Posted by Scarpetta on Fri, Jan 29, 2010, at 2:39 PM

California Senate OKs single-payer health care

"If it's not to be done at the national level, let us take the lead," said state Sen. Christine Kehoe, D-San Diego.


-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jan 29, 2010, at 2:28 PM

Poll: Americans pretty clueless about politics, world



-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jan 29, 2010, at 2:24 PM

AF Brat

It matters not to me why Senator McCaskill is opposed to changing Senate rule 22 so legislation can be brought to a straight up or down vote. The fact that she won't support it merely influences how I will vote in the primary when she comes up for re-election. I believe that Democracy requires the People's business come up for a straight up or down vote...regardless of who the majority and minority parties are.

Also, if the Party of NO! was to disappear today we would still have a bunch of other parties including the Libertarians, the Social Democrats, The Socialists, and the CPUSA. Just because the USA can't seem to get 3rd party candidates elected does not mean they aren't out there. As a matter of fact, I recall you saying you were a Libetarian...so you already knew this....before you posted your comment.

...and yes, The Party of NO! has got to GO!!! We the People cannot afford the Party of NO's obstructionism. We need progress now. We need jobs now. We need universal medical care access now, and we need hope for the future now.

The Party of NO! has got to GO!!

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jan 29, 2010, at 2:03 PM

Re Senator McCaskill:

There is a rule of thumb in all legislatures that says "what goes around, comes around."

Translated, it means what rules the Republicans use when in the minority are the same rules the Democrats use when they are in the minority. Every party expects to be in the minority at some point and when they are, they -- even Democrats -- will be referred to as the Party of "No."

Why? Because the party in power never lets the party out of power do anything affirmative which might gain positive press, etc. So all they have is the ability to vote no.

Senator McCaskill is just protecting Democrat "power" for the next time the political winds shift and the Democrates fall short of a majority. IIRC, during the Bush presidency, the Democrats WERE in party of "no" more often than not.

It is just the nature of a democracy with a variable middle (i.e., lots of us pesky independents) that insures political foutunes change periodically.

In some nations, for example the former USSR, there is no Party of "No." But I'm not sure I'd want to live in a single-party state.

-- Posted by AF Brat on Fri, Jan 29, 2010, at 11:40 AM


I'm not a bit surprised by McCaskill's response. To the Democrats, ending the filibuster rule would be like cutting off their noses to spite their faces, or however that saying goes.

I honestly believe our nation has moved philosophically in a direction that makes our two-party system of government obsolete in many ways, or at the very least, ineffective. I'm not convinced a cleanup of Washington will eliminate all of the political posturing that's so entrenched (maybe even institutionalized), resulting in all the obstruction taking place.

The American people no longer have any say, and I believe that's due mainly to how our officious "officials" view their relationship with the rest of us. I always think about Gingrich's response to the question by a news person asking if the American people should be able to vote on Clinton's impeachment. He said we're "too stupid to have any say" in the impeachment proceedings (or anything else governmental for that matter, I suppose).

Until WE, THE PEOPLE begin collectively chanting that now-famous Peter Finch exhortation from the movie, Network, and demonstrate to Washington that we mean business, only bad things will continue to happen.

FDR encouraged all Americans to "push on his administration" to keep it on track and working hard, and we're going to have to do that now, by whatever legal means are at our disposal - like voting out all the deadbeats, for example.

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Jan 29, 2010, at 10:53 AM

Kucinich to Obama: Be 'bolder' or 'we could lose our country'

"It would be helpful if he could take a page from Franklin Roosevelt," Kucinich told Raw Story in an exclusive interview. "FDR saw the need for broad structural changes in the economy and also the need for government to invest and put America back to work."

"If we can't fix our economic injustices and improve the standard of living for regular people, we could lose our country."


Congressman Kucinich certainly echos my feelings in the matter.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jan 29, 2010, at 3:13 AM


Long before Obama was elected, I was writing Claire McCaskill and urging her to sponser changing rule 22. It only requires a simple majority vote to change a Senate rule and it cannot be filibustered.

She told me in no uncertain terms that she supports the filibuster and would not support changing rule 22.

This position of hers will weigh heavily upon my mind when election time comes.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jan 29, 2010, at 2:29 AM

News, Kevin Phillips' Epiphany occurred during a vacation to visit his father in Tennessee. He heard about a free clinic being operated somewhere in that area and he went to have a look. The stories from the sick people he took from there changed his way of thinking. He saw the light and turned his back on the immoral practices by insurance companies, practices which he'd been a willing participant in carrying out before that day.

At first I wasn't convinced he was being real, but I guess he truly did become a convert.

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Jan 29, 2010, at 12:44 AM

Yep - I believe Obama alluded to this during the speech.

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Jan 29, 2010, at 12:28 AM


There is one solution that would certainly help. We can change Senate rule number 22 and eliminate the filibuster. All legislation, except that specifically mandated to be otherwise by the Constitution, should go to a straight up or down vote. This would speed up the passing of legislation and is in line with what the Founding Fathers had in mind.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jan 29, 2010, at 12:14 AM


I'm glad to see that you've decided to support the president and his effort to right the ship, so to speak. While I can't agree completely with his thinking, extraordinary times require extraordinary measures, by all Americans.

When I think how most of the Republican party members are acting, I'm reminded of what someone (Eldridge Cleaver, I think) said a few decades ago, paraphrased since I don't recall the exact phrasing: "...if you're not part of the solution, then you're part of the problem..." That, to me, pretty much sums up the way they're behaving, but it isn't just the Republicans who are contrary, but they do make up the majority in that contingent.

Legislators behave like children, like the factions on a playground. It's disgusting and disrespectul to the American citizens and to the rest of the world, and if the citizens of this country don't come together and do something about it, we deserve just what we get.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Jan 28, 2010, at 11:30 PM

FYI.... Paul Thomas is a Valley grad and was an outstanding football player there. I believe he went to high school in Hannibal. Marshall has had many out-of-district/non-local/non-MVC graduates in administrative positions. Rob Gordon, Rick Radford, Roger Blakely, Dr. Ron Cope were administrators with no prior connection to our community prior to being hired. Our current high school principal, superintendent, and assistant superintendent, as well as Joe Aull, are all people without Marshall connections. Some of these people did or are doing an excellent job. Some definitely did not. As I recall, Bruce Brock (who at the time was the high school principal) was passed up for the superintendent's position originally so that Ron Cope could have the job, but Dr. Cope was released before the year was out. The grass is not always greener on the other side. Don't blame your concerns on local vs. non-local. Every candidate should be looked at for their qualifications and not their zip code.

-- Posted by oneofmany on Thu, Jan 28, 2010, at 11:08 PM

After strangling, wife sues ex-Bush attorney for $30 million:


How long do the conservatives think We the People will tolerate their leaders breaking our laws?

The Party of NO! has to GO!

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jan 28, 2010, at 9:06 PM

Obama announces $8 billion investment in high-speed train system

31 states will be involved in projects to bring US rail system into modern era.


After 8 long, brutal years of failed conservative economic policies, finally we have a President who is doing something constructive.

This plan will not only bring our rail system into the 21st Century, but will also mean a lot of new jobs and a lot of news business for our suppliers of construction materials...creating even more jobs and new consumers.

God Bless you President Obama!!!

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jan 28, 2010, at 7:24 PM

Miss Marple

Thank you for the link and info on Kevin Phillips. It was very interesting. Many former conservatives have seen the error of their ways and especially in light of the massive problems conservative economic and political policies have brought upon our Nation.

....which is another good reason The Party of NO! has got to go!

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jan 28, 2010, at 7:07 PM

Turley: "Phone tamperer's Tweet may violate court order"

"O'Keefe seems to relish reckless acts. His stunt with ACORN appears to have violated state laws. Even without a surveillance conspiracy, the Landrieu stunt is still quite serious."


...and yet another reason The Party of NO! Has Got to Go!

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jan 28, 2010, at 7:04 PM

news: Here's some wikipedia info on Phillips:


-- Posted by Miss Marple on Thu, Jan 28, 2010, at 6:59 PM

Lawyer: "Phone plot meant to embarrass senator"


These criminals need to go to prison for a very, very long time. We need to send a message to other would be criminals, spying on United States Senators in direct violation of our laws will not be tolerated.

The Party of NO! has got to go!

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jan 28, 2010, at 6:49 PM


I meant to say,

The Party of NO! has got to go!!!

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jan 28, 2010, at 6:35 PM


I certainly opposed the conservative bailout of the Auto industry and the rich, fat-cat. conservative bankers of Wallstreet too. It was disgusting to see the Republicans hand out over $700 billion to the rich but it was not surprising since the conservatives had been handing our tax dollars out to the rich fat-cats since Bush's 1st hand out in the form of tax cuts for the rich.

Now the same party that was handing out our tax dollars to those who had the most and needed it the less want to play games with our economic future.

Conservative obstructionism is never a solution. The Party of No had got to go!!

Miss Marple,

Please excuse my ignorance but I am not sure who Kevin Phillips is. Could you remind me please?

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jan 28, 2010, at 6:33 PM

news across...you nailed it, it's "The Party of NO." They're again doing what they do best - standing in the way of economic equality. I'm a long-time fan of Kevin Phillips and interested in what you think of him.

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Thu, Jan 28, 2010, at 6:08 PM


The only hypocrisy I have seen is all coming from the conservatives who want nothing more than to obstruct our Nation's progress for their own political gain.

Obstructionism won't put food on the table of any of the millions of unemployed.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jan 28, 2010, at 5:56 PM

Dock -

A Three Stooges movie I saw as a kid had a scene where they were traveling in some kind of vessel, and Moe told Curly to look at the fuel gauge and tell him how much fuel remained in the tank. When Curly looked, it was reading half full, and his reply was that he didn't know if the tank was half empty or half full.

You may very well be right about that person's thoughts being on the half-empty side of the gauge, but I prefer to think of the reaction as that of seeing a half-full tank.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Jan 28, 2010, at 5:40 PM

Did Samuel Alito 'mouth off' to Obama during speech?

with video


-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jan 28, 2010, at 5:35 PM


We trust the care of our children to them. Why wouldn't we trust them in other matters?

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Thu, Jan 28, 2010, at 5:13 PM


Its nice to see the President re-invigorated and it was a great speech. I have decided to stand with the President, He has my full support. We all need to pull together and get our Nation moving again. Those who have chosen to obstruct our recovery (The Party of NO!) can take a long walk off a short pier as far as I am concerned. If the obstructionists don't want to be part of the solution they can just step on back out of the way.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jan 28, 2010, at 5:11 PM

Did anyone notice the legislator nearly in tears last night as Obama made his rallying cry? I figure we have at least ONE honest politician in the bunch.

I'm not a fan of the way the current administration has gone about doing some of its agenda, and I'm definitely no fan of Congress, but I have to say, anyone not feeling energized by Obama's summation must not be much of a patriot.

That's all I can say about it.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Jan 28, 2010, at 3:05 PM

Wizzer, any idea how much the District's annual budget may be? I don't know myself, but my guess it is 3-4 or more million dollars. We trust them to handle that much money every year and have for many, many years in the past. Are you worried they will take the money and leave the country? I'm not! Lets get this school built once and for all!

-- Posted by OldOwl on Thu, Jan 28, 2010, at 2:03 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Just FYI, the Marshall school district's budget for 2009-2010 as of June 2009 was $24.9 million.

I have one question: Are we to trust this current school board with $16 million?

-- Posted by wizzer on Thu, Jan 28, 2010, at 1:36 PM


I have no power. But neither does the guy who was threatening to "shut down the newspaper." I was just making that point. See my note where I say my threats are as empty as his.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Thu, Jan 28, 2010, at 11:24 AM

Cosa, now you know why they taste so good!

-- Posted by Night Sky on Thu, Jan 28, 2010, at 9:30 AM

Hat, what's this "we should just remove you from the blog all together" business? Sounds like you have the power! You married to the editor or something?

-- Posted by Night Sky on Thu, Jan 28, 2010, at 9:28 AM

I discovered a few minutes ago that Howard Zinn had died January 27th, 2010.

He was a great American. He was the son of immigrants, fought with honor in WWII, secured an education on the G. I. bill.

To me he was one of those that I never met, but whose influence upon me was such that I feel a sense of personal loss. He was an especially great one of the greatest generation.

His book "A People's History of The United States", changed forever how I and many others viewed Americaan History.

He was a giant in the ranks of populism, who walked the walk, talked the talk, and wrote the truth that "establishment history" swept under the rug. http://www.boston.com/news/local/breakin...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Jan 28, 2010, at 1:55 AM

Did check out the NPR link NewsAcross. Was aware of the situation from other sources, but htis one had great specifics. Tragic, but not surprising.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Jan 28, 2010, at 1:26 AM

The staff of the Democrat News puts in an unbelievable amount of hours. As an example, I saw Eric riding his bike in the middle of our worst weather here in early January. He was leaving the school board meeting.

He is objective in his coverage of every article he writes. If he were paid by the hour, he'd be a wealthy man. However, having a relative who is in small town journalism, I know it doesn't pay nearly what it should. Most who choose this field, do it for reasons other than money. Many times, it's a thankless job.

Thanks to Eric, Kathy, Chris, and everyone else at the Democrat News for all you do to provide objective journalism to our community.

-- Posted by oneofmany on Thu, Jan 28, 2010, at 12:31 AM


see what I mean about me not always catching typos? lol

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Jan 27, 2010, at 10:31 PM


I know I certainly review my comments before I post. That is always a good idea. I don't always catch all the typos though but what the heck, I am only a human being.

Anyway, stick around because because you will find many good quality comments at this forum...you just have to ignore the not-so-good posts.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Jan 27, 2010, at 9:26 PM

this is without a doubt one of the uh...more unusual forums i know....a borderline joke. i gotta wonder if people think or a least give their post a look see before hitting send. i mean for real???

-- Posted by wheresthelove on Wed, Jan 27, 2010, at 9:16 PM


So some jerk managed to get a few cuss-words on the MDN for a few minutes or hours...big deal. I bet those complaining have used far worst language at some point in their life.

I have been reading the Marshall Democrat since I was a child. Even when my family had moved to Chicago where my Father's job lead him, we continued to receive the Marshall Democrat by mail and I would read every issue. It kept me in touch with the place I love the most...Marshall...and in touch with the People I love the most...my fellow Marshallites.

Now I live very far away from the town of my heart and my heritage and the Marshall Democrat Still keeps me informed everyday on the local happenings.

I am a regular commenter here and I have seen Eric and Kathy work hard to make sure that the Marshall Democrat's forum remains fair and family friendly...and I do mean work hard at it. One jerk manages to get in a comment that violates the MD forum policy and some folks have a heart attack.

To those folks I say, grow up...mistakes happen. Perhaps Jesus put it best when he told us that before we can remove a speck of dust from our neighbor's eye, we must first remove the log in our own eye.

Thanks Eric and Kathy and everyone at the Marshall Democrat for your hard work and God bless you.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Jan 27, 2010, at 8:10 PM

Did the offended one report it or just post a comment? There is a place to report such posts instead of giving the writer the pleasure of being the one discussed on the forum.

-- Posted by litlmissme on Wed, Jan 27, 2010, at 6:55 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Several people did report the comment (thank you!) privately. Mizoufan did so publicly. We appreciate all the help we can get.

mizoufan, there is a specific reference to the fact that this site is not monitored 24 hours a day right at the top that obviously escaped your notice. It reads: "The nature of the Internet makes it impractical for our staff to review every comment. If you feel that a comment is offensive, please Login or Create an account first, and then you will be able to flag a comment as objectionable."

You've done your duty and so has the paper. That should be the end of it - no need to expect a "pound of flesh" from the paper's staff, none of whom are responsible for the obnoxious utterings of someone who clearly means to shock.

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Wed, Jan 27, 2010, at 6:53 PM

Just an observation but "mizoufan" came back tonight at about the same time. Must not have been toooooo offended. Just an observation.....

Have a great evening!


-- Posted by missy08 on Wed, Jan 27, 2010, at 6:40 PM

yeah, they did it when it came to their notice. I have a better idea than turning off the blogs at night. You stay off the blogs at night or perhaps we should just remove you from the blog all together.

Threats? Two can play that game and my threats are just as empty as yours!

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Wed, Jan 27, 2010, at 6:34 PM

countryman----Coach Thomas is a Missouri Valley graduate.

-- Posted by mu-grad on Wed, Jan 27, 2010, at 6:31 PM

To Hat Full of Sky, it took less than 45 min to remove the vulgar blog and they did it after working hours. There is a simple remedy. Monitor the blogs 24/7 or dont allow blogs after working hours.


Mine was not an empty threat, staff turnover is easy!

This must not happen ever again.

-- Posted by mizoufan on Wed, Jan 27, 2010, at 6:25 PM

mizoufan, why would the paper apologize for the offensive remarks of some anonymous person who obviously enjoys acting like a jerk?

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Wed, Jan 27, 2010, at 6:12 PM


Oh, grow up! The vulgarities were posted after 5 pm. The staff is either gone home or are covering meetings for the paper.

Threatening to "shut down" the newspaper is just juvenile.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Wed, Jan 27, 2010, at 5:54 PM

Correction: 5:06 pm blog

Marshall High grad 1976

-- Posted by mizoufan on Wed, Jan 27, 2010, at 5:39 PM

Why did my beloved home town newspaper allow the 5:45 AM 01/27/10 blog with all the F bombs in it apear on the front page. I will be waiting and expecting a FULL PAGE PUBLIC APOLOGY. Heads need to roll!!!!!!!!!!. My anger over this matter can not be measured, I will make it my mission in life to shut down the Marshall Democrat if this situation is not imediately looked into.

Marshall High school grad, 1976

-- Posted by mizoufan on Wed, Jan 27, 2010, at 5:35 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Comments are not reviewed prior to being posted, but any comments that violate our policy are deleted, as was the one you refer to.

Oh, heck no, we can't give Thomas the AD job. He's not from around here, or related to any current administrators or board members. We need to fill those positions with friends and relatives. More locals! More Valley Grads! See, we all know things go bad when we hire those folks from outside the county.

-- Posted by countryman on Wed, Jan 27, 2010, at 4:32 PM

On kmmo.com it says that in executive secession the Marshall School accepted Scott Latham's resignation, which will be affective at the end of the school year. Can Coach Thomas have that job? What's down with that?

-- Posted by whatsdown on Tue, Jan 26, 2010, at 6:46 PM


-- Posted by freckles on Wed, Jan 27, 2010, at 5:45 AM


Did you check out that report I posted from NPR?


-- Posted by news across on Wed, Jan 27, 2010, at 3:00 AM

G'day News.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jan 27, 2010, at 1:56 AM

NPR: 1/3rd of Women in US Military Raped

You will find it in Paragraph 15, line 1


-- Posted by news across on Wed, Jan 27, 2010, at 1:53 AM


I am always relaxed dude,

Anyway, no the purpose of the posting was to share the article with other folks who might be interested. The fact that he is a Nobel Laureate is just icing on the cake.

Perhaps next time you will simply read the article and stay on topic...you may find you learn more that way.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jan 26, 2010, at 11:40 PM

Thanks News Across, I'm going to get on the list! And stay there.I love it. Their Probably so tired of me, they could Puke! Needs to be done! They were talking on Rachel Maddow show about this tonite, didn't get in on it all! have to go to her show site and watch it again.

-- Posted by Jo on Tue, Jan 26, 2010, at 11:39 PM

news across,

Krugman may be respected by many as an economist. You were the one who referenced only the Nobel committee; the same organization that saw fit to award Obama it's Peace Prize. You might want to relax, take a deep breath and have a seat yourself.

-- Posted by Bcat on Tue, Jan 26, 2010, at 11:33 PM


The filibuster procedure in the Senate is a senate rule...rule number 22. It is not a Constitutionally mandated rule. Its simply a rule the Senate passed and the rule can be removed by a simple majority vote. That rule change process is called the "Constitutional Option" a term coined by Senator Byrd in the early 1960s when a threat by the liberals in the Senate to end rule 22 ended the conservative filibuster against the 1964 Civil Rights Act.

I have written Senator McCaskill a number of times urging her to sponsor the removal of rule 22 so the all the Peoples business in the Senate would come up for a straight up or down vote.

I know of no evidence that our Founding Fathers ever even considered such a thing as requiring a 60% vote to pass legislation.

I urge you to write our Senators and join with me in calling for an end to Senate Rule number 22 so we can start getting some legislation passed as our Founding Fathers intended.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jan 26, 2010, at 11:01 PM


Are you saying Paul Krugman is not one of the World's most respected economists?

If so, please include factual evidence to support this claim with the links to qualified sources of your information... or sit down sonny boy.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jan 26, 2010, at 10:47 PM

I thought Krugman would be part of Obama team,in the beginning. I was hoping. I had read a lot about him. To bad he wasn't!I think Obama left to many of the same People inplace! I still haven't got the entire scoop on the Simple Majority! It is about the Filibuster.Can anyone point me to a link. There seems to be some action on changing it. A congressman from Arizona has been working on it ! Thanks News Across!

-- Posted by Jo on Tue, Jan 26, 2010, at 10:17 PM

Paul Krugmen, "Nobel winning economist"--We all know what kind of credibility that buys you these days.

-- Posted by Bcat on Tue, Jan 26, 2010, at 10:16 PM

Conservative and Fox News Contributor who exposed ACORN accused of seeking to wiretap Senate phones


-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jan 26, 2010, at 8:09 PM

On kmmo.com it says that in executive secession the Marshall School accepted Scott Latham's resignation, which will be affective at the end of the school year. Can Coach Thomas have that job? What's down with that?

-- Posted by whatsdown on Tue, Jan 26, 2010, at 6:46 PM

Nobel winning economist, Paul Krugman: Obama spending freeze 'appalling on every level'


-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jan 26, 2010, at 6:16 PM


I think you are absolutely right and you said it well. I couldn't have said it better myself.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jan 26, 2010, at 5:19 PM

We used to join a protest march! I've been in two, back in the 60,s. If enough American , keep on, a keepin on, it will work! E Mails, Letters, Organized peaceful Marches in your own Town. Enough hell raised , the News Media will get to covering it! Personally , i think Obama is listening to the wrong Message from the People! He better change the way the System Operates. I know that's the way everyone i know feels! Go back and get the Criminals in the last Administration. Change back to the Simple Majority Vote! What would it take to get this done? It would probably help! Some of this Parliamentary Procedure,SUCKS! Tell me if i'm wrong!

-- Posted by Jo on Tue, Jan 26, 2010, at 2:41 PM

Heard there was another person let go at the High School. Wondering if the Democrat News is going to rush up there for an interview such as they did with Coach Thomas? Atleast this man knows he lost his job and it won't be The Democrat News informing him of it. Sure am glad I'm not a Marshall High employee!!! I'd hate to be the "fall guy" for other peoples mistakes.

-- Posted by freckles on Tue, Jan 26, 2010, at 12:10 PM

Last I remembered corporations can't vote, so to say they will control the elections now is just wrong. As a people, we need to show up at the ballot and vote our beliefs and note what some corporation tells us in a commercial.

-- Posted by mtownresident on Tue, Jan 26, 2010, at 10:55 AM

Midniterebel: Sure votes matter.

Just ask Minnesota's former US Senator, Norm Coleman, who was beaten in 2008 by 312 votes out of 2.9 million cast. That's about 1 vote per precinct.

If 50.0001% want them out, out they go. But you have to get up and go vote. Talking 'bout it doesn't work.

-- Posted by AF Brat on Tue, Jan 26, 2010, at 10:30 AM

Could California be onto something here? What if the private sector moved into the Prison System?


-- Posted by Scarpetta on Tue, Jan 26, 2010, at 10:23 AM

so how do we citizens start a revolution and take back our goverment the way our founding fathers intended it to be "by the people and for the people"? we can't vote em out because our votes do'nt matter anymore right? or am I getting this wrong?

-- Posted by midniterebel on Tue, Jan 26, 2010, at 6:42 AM

Thank you News, my compatriot.

There is no longer any doubt in my mind that the narrow majority of the Supreme Court are lieges of the Corporatist rulers.

In one fell swoop they cut off any chance that a true candidate of the people could be elected by individual small donations.

Obama's run based in no small part on such donations made them realize that they had to end the possibility of an even greater champion of the people, capturing their ardour, and their voices (as expressed in small donations).

Figuratively speaking they have cut out the tongues of all the serfs so that they can only mumble incoherently in response to the trumpets, and criers of the Corporate kings.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Jan 26, 2010, at 2:43 AM


Have you noticed that the media these days, when referencing we the people, almost always refer to us as consumers? That is the case whether it is their original comment, a quote of a government official, or graphs and charts they have prepared.

When is the last time you read, or heard any of these entities refer to the collective us as citizens?

It is consumers this, and consumers that. What will the consumers think is their expression of concern about us.

It seems that sometime, not so very long ago, maybe 1980, or 1984, that we lost our status as citizens in the minds of the powerful, and the power brokers. We became just the consumers.

It is likely that we citizens, (if we still deserve to be called that) had a large part in this shift of emphasis. We had gotten to the point that we only became really disgruntled when any portion of our individual personal material wealth was in jeopardy,real or imagined. For the most part we became unconcerned, or at best paid lip service to encroachments on our rights, and duress placed upon our fellow citizens.

The powers that be are many things, but stupid isn't one of them. They pushed even harder to persuade us to be good little consumers, and boy have we complied.

Maybe it is time that we rethink some things. Maybe we should consider whether, or not we should again set about doing those things that define us as citizens. We will know we have succeeded when we start hearing our government, and the media once again referring to us as citizens on a regular basis. For now though pick up your morning paper, or morning television shows, listen for the word consumers and know that is what you are.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Jan 26, 2010, at 2:17 AM


I agree 100%.

I believe...and I hope I am wrong...that the Great Democratic Experiment our Founding Fathers worked so hard to create is on its last leg. I will be surprised if America in 10 years doesn't look a lot like a banana republic with an American version of "El Presidente Generalismo" brutally keeping the desperately poor citizenry "pacified" with his own private army.

Its difficult to watch this happening from any point on the Globe, and while it may seem a bit selfish, all I can say is I am glad I won't have to live there.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jan 26, 2010, at 1:51 AM

The Supreme Court decision regarding campaign donations is such a tragedy, and a nightmare that I can not get it out of my mind.

In addition to other things it has opened the gates of our beloved country to further encroachment, and pervasive influence by the forces of megacorporations, and foreign governments all over the world. We are another giant step closer to a new world order, one in which powers clustered in the hands of a few dominate not just trade, but every aspect of civilization the world over.

Only United States citizens may donate or influence campaigns, but a foreign government can, veiled behind a corporate treasury, dump money into ballot battles.

Under the law today, human people, as opposed to corporate people, may only give $2,300 to a presidential campaign. Hedge fund billionares who operate through dozens of corporate vessels, may now give unlimited sums through each of these "unnatural" creatures.

Kiss the small donor revolution good by. We can no longer think of ourselves as a government of the people by the people. We human citizens of the United States are, excepting the wealthiest one percent among us, second class citizens.

Can there be any remaining doubt that the treasonous five on the Supreme Court of The United States have sold our democracy to the World Corporatocracy? **** them, and their cohorts.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Jan 26, 2010, at 12:55 AM


the link i provide is from rawstory and is not an advertisement, its an article. I recommend you go to their main site and click on their link.


As to the latest supreme court ruling, my concern is that they turned over a hundred years of their own rulings...so much for case law in America...its all up for re-interpretation now.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jan 25, 2010, at 10:00 PM

As a former criminal defense counsel, there are few who love the Miranda rule as much as I but it is not applicable universally. The ACLU's "headline" (noted by News Across) is just that - an advertisement for the article. Here's a very thoughtful exposition of the other side of the issue by a former federal judge. http://volokh.com/2010/01/25/mirandizing...

-- Posted by AF Brat on Mon, Jan 25, 2010, at 9:18 PM

Marshall Voters:

Obviously, I have no vested interest in the outcome of the upcoming school bond election, but for unidentifiable reasons I sense that voters are being flim-flammed on this one.

I'm coming into this on the back end and know very little of the history behind the repeated failed bond elections, so my conclusion may very well be erroneous, but now I've read about the sudden "realization" by the school board that voters may have an interest in returning to the former neighborhood school format.

The issue is of interest to me even though I have no connection with the district, so any comments directed my way will be appreciated.

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Jan 25, 2010, at 7:55 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
The neighborhood school issue is a complex one. The board discussed it at some length tonight and I hope to write more about it tomorrow, but the short version is that while a significant number of community members deeply regret the move 30 years ago to the current system and want to go back to neighborhood schools, there is no going back to the system that was in place three decades ago, according to school board members and district administrators. There is an option that resembles neighborhood schools in some respects, and the board tonight voted to try it: multigrade schools.

ACLU slams Republican Senators: The Constitution is not 'optional'


-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jan 25, 2010, at 7:38 PM

OR posted: "BTW what is your take on the "Hugo Chavez" example I gave?"

It will backfire.

Disclosure laws are constitutional and as long as the source of the big money is known, the voters can take retribution. They have in the past and I'm sure they will in the future.

-- Posted by AF Brat on Mon, Jan 25, 2010, at 7:34 PM

S.C. Republican politician's welfare remark called 'immoral'

Candidate for governor likens government aid to feeding stray animals


-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jan 25, 2010, at 6:13 PM


You seem to be confused. You say Libertarians aren't conservative.

What a load of nonsense.

Conservatives use a Strict-Constructionist interpretation of the Constitution.

Libertarians use a Strict-Constructionist interpretation of the Constitution.

Conservatives follow Neoclassical Economic Theory (Free-Market).

Libertatrians follow Neoclassical Economic Theory (Free-Market)

The only disagreement between Libertarians and other conservatives in other parties, such as the Republican party, is how far they want to take neoclassical economic theory...advocating that neoclassical economic theory/free-market economics should decide all matters short of American foreign Military policy.

Yeah AfB, Libertarians aren't conservative...in fact they are ultra-conservative.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jan 25, 2010, at 6:07 PM

Legal staff ruled Blair's war illegal


-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jan 25, 2010, at 5:39 PM

Fox News leaves false report on Haiti uncorrected


-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jan 25, 2010, at 5:25 PM

AFB sorry for any inference that you were a conservative, or a Republican, but then it is sometimes not easy to distinguish due to the convergence of some positions between conservatives, and libertarians. I suppose had we been addressing social issues on the blog I may have inferred you were a Democrat or liberal.:)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Jan 25, 2010, at 1:28 PM

Washington D. C. (news flash)

General Motors became the first to throw a hat into the ring, under the banner of the Democratic Party seeking the presidency of the United States in 2012.

"We are encouraged by recent decisions of the Supreme Court that make us certain that they will rule favorably concerning the legality of our candidacy. That is if anyone bothers to challenge it."

The Washington press present at the announcement seemed taken aback, but soon with their usual aplomb, and savvy cut to the heart of the issue. They asked how we should personally address the candidate. They were informed that there were several satisfactory appellations such as Motors, and GM, but that they would most prefer to just be called General, in deference to their long involvement in the defense of our nation. They pointed out a special value of the candidacy, that being that they were gender neutral. For that reason they could be addressed as Ms. Motors, Mrs. Motors, or Mr. Motors so every one of those most concerned about the sex of a candidate would feel comfortable casting a vote for Motors.

It was pointed out to the press that there was absolutely no doubt that General Motors was born in the United States, unlike both major candidates in 2008.

After a few follow up questions on the subject the press was speechless.

The General concluded by remarking that they owed a great debt to the nation, and that the best way to show their gratitude was to run for the nation's highest office. The campaign slogan is a no brainer, "what is good for General Motors is good for the nation".

The scuttle around Washington is that the Republicans were caught totally off guard by the candidacy. However, when several leaders of the party were asked if that was the case they answered no, and refused to elaborate.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Jan 25, 2010, at 1:07 PM

AFB I remain a member of the Democratic Party because of an exclusionary law in Oklahoma that does not allow one to vote in primary elections unless one is a member of the Democratic, or Republican Parties.

I support many libertarian positions, more than most mainstream Democrats. If there was a viable libertarian candidate for president, I might very well vote for that candidate, especially if the candidate also had a strong populist bent.

I have evolved, or devolved (depending on perspective) to an independent populist.

BTW what is your take on the "Hugo Chavez" example I gave?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Jan 25, 2010, at 11:36 AM

Wrong tar, wrong feathers. I'm not a Conservative nor a Republican. So, I don't need to defend either group.

I'm a Libertarian like my friend Eugene Volokh (whose Blog I quoted). That makes me identical to a Democrat much of the time but ... more fiscally responsible.

The First Amendment IS different. It is an enumerated right set out in the Bill of Rights. And the basis for all that we know of as America (travel in Europe for a while, you'll see).

BTW, as I understand damage caps, they only apply to non-physical (subjective) injuries which are difficult to quantify. There is no limit, IIRC, on the actual cost of repairing/rehibilitating physical injuries.

-- Posted by AF Brat on Mon, Jan 25, 2010, at 9:25 AM

So AFBrat, you are comfortable with the fact that Hugo Chavez of Venzuela can now provide millions in financing to candidates that he percieves to be sympathetic to his regime, as long as Citgo writes the check? You are at ease with it despite the fact that nearly every conservative, of every stripe, in the United States sees Chavez as a clear and present danger to our country?

There are many reasons to be concerned about this latest can of worms. It is not a settled issue. A five/four decision by a divided Supreme Court, one that is almost entirely made up of jurists nominated by Republican presidents will prevent its repose.

There are many sound arguments against it. I have read many, but I am not going to argue each in this forum, nor will I bother to read other links that support it. I have already read many on each side of the issue, and like you in this case I am going with my predisposition. We will just have to agree to disagree.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Jan 25, 2010, at 12:11 AM

AFBrat, you like most of us (me included), adhere to certain arguments only as long as they are supporting our favored agenda. Otherwise those conservatives that applaud the recent activism by The Supreme Court would also support the removal of caps on damage awards as a result of proven torts. They obviously do not.

How can one be consistent on principle, and believe that a corporation have the right to unfettered spending to support any politician, but an individual not have the right to unfettered recovery when that corporation's negligence literally took an arm, and a leg from the individual.

Our "arguments" too often rest on whose ox is being gored.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jan 24, 2010, at 11:30 PM

Money isn't speech. But, it facilitates speech.


A great Blog, BTW.

-- Posted by AF Brat on Sun, Jan 24, 2010, at 10:29 PM

Or perhaps you think "funny" should be original, unlinked, and just a little unhinged. Such as: Its easy to see that "The Supremes" have really fooled the Pro Life Crowd. If they had favored the unborn one tenth as much as they have favored the never were/never will be born, saintly people wouldn't have to go around killing abortion Doctors.

Or: the Corporatocracy has become so brazen that they no longer bother to throw us a bone. They now just give us the bone, toting their bonuses home with their finger in the air.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jan 24, 2010, at 10:27 PM

Or maybe this? http://www.internetweekly.org/2010/01/ca...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jan 24, 2010, at 10:08 PM

Or funny like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DN_81yTXS...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jan 24, 2010, at 10:00 PM

You mean funny like this? http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4043/4295...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jan 24, 2010, at 9:54 PM

Yeah I know what you mean AF.

I prefer to stick with factual posts where ever possible...such as the previous headline and link I posted down below.

Fact: Former United Nations weapons inspector Dr. David Kelly was found dead in the woods behind his home in Oxfordshire, U.K.

Fact: As the BBC revealed in the wake of his passing, he had been the key source behind a story claiming intelligence on Iraq's alleged weapons of mass destruction was "sexed up."

Fact: Hours before his death, he reportedly e-mailed New York Times reporter Judith Miller, warning her of "many dark actors playing games," according to the BBC.

Fact: details of the former United Nations weapons inspector's death locked away for 70 years, according to a Mail Online report.

Fact: Lord Hutton, the British judge who led the state's investigation into Kelly's death, also ordered his written records pertaining to the case sealed for 30 years.

Fact: The report added that Hutton's inquiry "concluded that Dr Kelly had killed himself by cutting an artery in his wrist. But the finding has been challenged by doctors who claim that the weapons inspector's stated injuries were not serious enough to have killed him."

Those are the facts. They are indisputable because they are fact and not inference and not opinion.

As to whatever inferences the reader wishes to draw from those facts is an area I have not delved into. I am only interested in the facts.

I find that there is no censor needed when we are dealing with factual information because facts are objective and not subjective. Simply put, the facts speak for themselves.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jan 24, 2010, at 8:40 PM

I just did it again.

At least 9/10 of the intersting tidbits I run across to post here don't pass my own censor. Ther are just too funny. In a political way, natch.

-- Posted by AF Brat on Sun, Jan 24, 2010, at 8:19 PM

"Details of Iraq whistleblower's alleged suicide to be sealed 70 years"



-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jan 24, 2010, at 5:54 PM

Republican/neocon, Senator DeMint: "Stop healthcare to 'break' Obama"


So finally the "Party of NO" can no longer hide their agenda to block our Nation's progress.

With Video

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jan 24, 2010, at 4:50 PM

Ownby, that was $666.66. No devilment involved, just the result of a Wozniak quirk.

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Jan 24, 2010, at 4:42 PM

Ok folks relax...Boxing is just a well-regulated sport...no reason to get too excited.

As to chest thumping...I have never regarded sports and fitness as "chest thumping," nor is it chest thumping to remind someone who had just issued a veiled (and probably empty) threat to commit an assault on my person...and all because that person could not beat my argument...that I, like many others, am very capable of defending myself.

Before you comment on this, I recommend you scroll way down and take a good look at the comment by JOwnby that started this all.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jan 24, 2010, at 3:48 PM


And this.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jan 24, 2010, at 3:08 PM


Check it out.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jan 24, 2010, at 3:02 PM

OMG the pins are falling everywhere, and in every direction. Too bad that in bowling, like life so many fall into the gutter.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jan 24, 2010, at 2:32 PM

And here is the perfect antidote for all that Tarzan-like chest-beating:

Kelly Kulich has just beaten Chris Barnes in the PBA Championship, the first woman in history to win a PBA tour event. She didn't just win - she stomped on Barnes, a Hall of Famer, taking it by 70 pins.

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Sun, Jan 24, 2010, at 1:39 PM

I started to post something incredibly profound but after further review of the site decided to play another round of spider solitaire. (LOL at myself - try it sometime.)

-- Posted by broke-n-busted on Sun, Jan 24, 2010, at 12:56 PM

Ha ha ha...funny and squarely on the mark, Miss Marple.:)

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Jan 24, 2010, at 11:32 AM

Late-breaking news....

There has been an outbreak of testosterone on the Speak Out blog, ladies and gentlemen. Enter at your own risk.

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Sun, Jan 24, 2010, at 10:21 AM

My mild comment was triggered by to this chest-thumping by News Across, "I do however spend a lot of time at the gym working out, I am very physically fit and strong, and I am an ex-amateur-boxer so I am pretty good with the ol' dukes...", so I think it was fair comment. Especially since it was a generalized comment about internet speakers.

Speaking of free speech, I'm all in favor of it. In fact, in favor of more of it [ especially free downloads ;=) ]

And specifically, political speech should have the highest value. Did you know that about 1/2 of the states have no restriction on who can spend (or how much) and they all seem to run fair and vigorous elections? Money is fungible and, like water, it finds its way through any barrier (remembering the pot hole I drove into this morning).

-- Posted by AF Brat on Sun, Jan 24, 2010, at 8:52 AM

Nonsense JOwnby,

It really all comes down to your veiled threats because you could not attack my argument...

As to how tough I may or may not be...real toughness is being able to endure your veiled threats and your ad hominem attacks on me.

If you want to fight me...try using logic, facts, and reason instead of personal attacks and veiled threats.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jan 24, 2010, at 6:23 AM


The $10,000 is a show up fee guaranteeing you or any other contender shows up for the match. IBF rules don't allow a cash prize to amature boxers. The show up fee would be returned by the 3rd party (a bank in good standing) after the match less half the cost of the ring and the referee.

But listen, don't let the money stop you. Let me know when you are going to be in Sydney and we can get all the paper work signed after you get here and get right on into the ring mate.

I look forward to your arrival!

...but lets face it...you would never show up there or here...so move on...

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jan 24, 2010, at 5:54 AM

Oklahoma Reader

In has been my experience that in order to even begin to understand neocon political philosophy one must first understand that neocons will contradict themselves anytime they think its in their interest to do so...even going as far as to deny facts (such as denying we were attacked by terrorists during Bush watch as a number of prominent neocons have done lately including such prominent neocon leaders such as Mayor Giuliani)

In order to understand this consider it in this simple form; most of us were taught that its how you play a game that matters...such as not cheating in baseball and behaving with good sportsmanship...not whether you win or lose. This traditional thought lends itself to concepts such as honesty, morality, and fair play. But viewed through neocon "logic" this would be incorrect.

The noecon believes that how you play the game is irrelevant because all that matters is winning (in their minds eye anyway). This approach leaves no room for questions of right or wrong or honesty or fair play. Thus when it is convenient for a neocon to contradict themselves for the sake of "winning" an argument by any means necessary, they will gladly indulge in hypocrisy.

Given the manifestation of this neocon political philosophy in our National policies, its no wonder our Nation has been devastated in so many ways since the neocons first took control of all 3 branches of government Jan '01. In just 6 short years they had sewn the seeds of what could very well turn out to be the permanent downward spiral of a once great democracy.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jan 24, 2010, at 5:27 AM

Ad hominem, ad hominem, sure seems like there are a lot of ad hominem attacks right now.

Where are those who pointed out such attacks, and vehemently disparaged them? We could use their input now.

I am old, and forgetful so it would be hard for me to personally request your intercession (by name). I do seem to recall that Ray raised the issue quite often, and I believe that AFBrat has pointed it out on occasion, but what do I know.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jan 24, 2010, at 5:01 AM

AFBrat, JOwnby, Mrxray: I guess you guys missed my request to you regarding judicial activism, and the Fair Elections Now Act. I really would like your opinion in the context of my post at 11:25 am Jan 23rd, and related posts I made on the subject.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jan 24, 2010, at 4:48 AM

USGS claims Venezuela sits on Earth's largest oil reserves


Well it looks like we know which 3rd World country we will be invading next

...based on lies of course.

Its not like the neocons would be honest and admit they want to attack in order to control Venezuelan oil...instead Fox News and the Republican talking heads will convince us that we are in eminent danger of nuclear attack from another Country that doesn't have nukes. And when we ask, hey does this have anything to do with the fact that Venezuela has the largest deposits of oil in the World, they will claim we are crazy and that the fact that Venezuela has all that oil is just a "coincidence"...or as Kelly Bundy of "married with children" would put it..."its just a coinkidink!".

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jan 24, 2010, at 12:35 AM

NanaDot and Jo

Thanks so much to both of you for your kind words.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Jan 23, 2010, at 11:25 PM

Can anyone tell me how the politician got rid of the Common Majority Vote,how and when was it done? I could look it up,but i'm sure someone here can fill me in. I'm sure it was for the Politicians benefit to scam the System! Thanks I should have took an interest in all this Years ago! By not being interested, i was part of the problem ? Now i have to cram at my age,ha! Maybe Obama should have started changing these kind of things, before all this other! Seems to me that kind of thing go's against everything either Party tries to do. Maybe that's to simplitistic an answer, I don't know! Seems you guys have a handle on all this! Thanks again!

-- Posted by Jo on Sat, Jan 23, 2010, at 10:39 PM


Thanks...its nice to read a friendly comment for a change lol.

Jo I already consider you a friend in many ways and your comments always remind me that there are still at least a few sane people left in the USA lol.

Thanks mate!

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Jan 23, 2010, at 10:01 PM

I like your style News Across! I think we could have been friends when we were young Men in Marshall. Good times! Enjoy the Weather down there.

-- Posted by Jo on Sat, Jan 23, 2010, at 9:51 PM

AF Brat

All city councils both here in Oz and in the USA pass laws for residential and commercial building. That is why we elect those councils and if we don't like a rule, we change it if we can. Nothing new there. As to your statement that Australia city councils require city council permission to have a garden...well not in the city I live in...and I have never heard of any city council in NSW requiring such. In fact, most city councils here are very environmentally conscious and encourage the planting of greenery of all sorts including gardens. But if a city council did pass such a law then it would either remain on the books if the majority approves and not remain on the books if the majority doesn' approve -- that is called democracy. However, as I stated, I have never heard of any such council law and we certainly don't have any such regulation in the city I live in. You may want to write the specific city council you are referring to and complain...but since you don't live in that city and since you have no vote in anyplace in Australia, I doubt they would give your opinion much credence...but hey you can try!

By the way do you regard Marshall city council as a "guard?"

As to my physical shape...I work hard at the gym everyday -- regardless of the internet and I can defend myself as well as the next guy or better. That is just how it is. I am surprised you didn't condemn OMG's veiled threat...because that is what it was...but then you just kind of pick and choose your morality all depending upon the person and/or circumstances. How so truly neocon of you lol.

Anyway, anytime you or OMG or anyone else in my weight/age range wants to meet me in the ring for a sporting event...let me know (IBF rules). Its very easy. You sign some papers relieving me of any criminal or civil liablity for what happens in the ring and post a refundable show up fee of $10,000 (which you lose by default if you fail to show up) which I will also post with a neutral 3rd party (to insure the person actually shows up for the sporting event in the ring), and we can enjoy up to 12 rounds of fun. Serious inquiries only please.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Jan 23, 2010, at 9:24 PM


I don't know how you respond to drek like that recently posted. Everyone on the Internet is 10 feet tall and 290 pounds with 8% body fat. Either one's comments (absent one's personality)are worthwhile or they are not. If they are not, don't whimper, even in a foreign tongue. ;-)

BTW, Did you know that in Oz, you have to ask permission of the guards (pardon me, the local Council - a sub-unit of the STATE) to plant a garden in your own back yard? And no one minds!

-- Posted by AF Brat on Sat, Jan 23, 2010, at 9:01 PM


I have always expressed my opinions freely. I don't worry about what others might do. I mean we all have an opinion and others have theirs too. So it doesn't require a lot of bravery.

If you mean do I fear assault from neocons because I have expressed an opinion...the answer is no. I don't fear criminals and that is what someone is when they act on the decision to commit an assault.

I do however spend a lot of time at the gym working out, I am very physically fit and strong, and I am an ex-amateur-boxer so I am pretty good with the ol' dukes...so I think anyone who would choose to assault me for my opinions would quickly find themselves both in the hospital and facing criminal charges as well as a law suit. I don't play around...I do mean business. I have had people shoot at me before...years ago in Chicago. They are all still in prison today and I suspect they now prefer prison (institutionalization), but I would never let any threat deter me from stating the truth as I see it.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Jan 23, 2010, at 8:27 PM

News Across - You are awfully brave as an anonymous poster. I would venture a guess that you don't say these things out loud to many people...at least not people without dirty hair and birkenstocks.

-- Posted by OMG! on Sat, Jan 23, 2010, at 8:16 PM

Night Sky

I certainly share your approval of what our Government is doing in Haiti.

Natural disasters can be devastating to any nation. Its also interesting to see the different approach to such natural disasters the Democrats employ. The effort in Haiti is certainly much much better than the do nothing approach of the Republicans during Katrina.

Yes its a pleasure to be able to point to our effort in Haiti as a positive improvement to the previous Administration's "do nothing" inactivity that we saw under the neocons.

I too am proud to see our troops saving lives verses the neocon use of our troops to attack 3rd World countries -- based on lies from the top conservatives in the Country -- 3rd World countries that pose no direct threat to our National security.

As I have often said, if we have money to kill with, we have money to heal with.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Jan 23, 2010, at 7:07 PM

Have been meaning to say this for a week or more. It has been heartwarming to see the different rescue groups from so many nations working side by side in Haiti.

And did anyone see the video of the 82nd Airborne landing and the Haitian citizens who applauded because they were truly glad to see the US coming to help?

So nice to see this STRONG, PROUD and FREE nation appreciated like that when some of its own citizens do not grant that same honor.

-- Posted by Night Sky on Sat, Jan 23, 2010, at 6:57 PM

Night Sky

1.) My citizenship and the rights and obligations it bestows upon me are not up for debate.

2.) I actually live in 2 countries...Australia and the United States...and I don't check my citizenship or my rights at the door when I travel between them. I have every right to make comments.

3.) As to my arrogance and self-centeredness...well I think perhaps you offer us a case of the pot calling the kettle black. If arrogance and self-centeredness were my only two faults I would count myself as being lucky.

4.) As to your taking offense to my saying our Nation is in the tank...well you don't have a right to not be offended. I find your conservative leaders offensive too...as well as your comment. Oh well...I guess you and I will have to live with being offended.

5.) As to America being free...well that is may be your opinion but its not mine. The Patriot Act limits Americans Constitutional freedoms, the Government spying on Americans without a warrant and without probable cause...in direct violation of Fed Acts, Title 50, Chapter 36, allowing corporatists to bribe our elected officials, holding American citizens arrested in the United States in military prisons for years with out a single hearing or a day in court to ask why he was being held -- held incommunicado and denied access to an attorney (Jose Padilla) and all the while being tortured...all limits to American freedoms...

I would recommend you try attacking my arguments rather than launching personal attacks against me (and attacking me for the same faults you and every other person also share)...at least then you will be staying focused on the important issuses.


No I won't "shut-up"...not when there are so many important issues to comment on and not while American freedoms and liberties are under attack by the neocons.

As far as how the term "neocon" sounds to you...well it is the neocons who have discredited themselves over and over again. If the word has a negative tone to you, perhaps you should take a look at some of the horrible things neocons have and continue to do to our Nation...then perhaps you will have a better understanding of why you attach such a negative sentiment to the term.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Jan 23, 2010, at 6:35 PM

I agree with JOwnby and AFB. News, you're arrogant and self-centered.

And I take great offense at you saying this nation is in the tank. I live here, you don't. You tout your citizenship quite often but you've chosen to live elsewhere and you aren't experiencing daily life in the US except through the news media. You want to see what it's like here in the states, then get your A-double-S back over here and see. The United States has problems, just like every other country in the world. But we are strong and proud and still free and I challenge you to prove otherwise. You may have education degrees coming out your ears but you're wrong. Mate.

I won't reply to any response from you. My anger with what you've said about MY country has been assuaged through this post.

-- Posted by Night Sky on Sat, Jan 23, 2010, at 6:09 PM

I might add that some neocons go even further in their attempts to discredit democrats than merely pointing out indiscretions.

Some goes as far as blaming people who had nothing to do with the indiscretions for the indiscretions.

Take for example the de-facto head of the Republican Party, drug-addict Rush Limbaugh for example...

Rush Limbaugh: "It's Obama's Fault That Gov. Sanford Cheated on Wife!"


-- Posted by news across on Sat, Jan 23, 2010, at 5:58 PM

Its interesting how some folks will complain about their neighbors backyard while their own is even worse.

Shall I list all the conservative politicians (Republican ex-Congressman Mark Foley -- pedophile, Republican/neocon Gov Sanford of SC...adulterer, Conservative/Republican David Vitter...adulterer, John Ensign...adulterer, Bob Livingston, Newt Gingrich, Rudolf Giuliani...all adulterers, and of course my favorite...Larry Craig) just to name a few of the many, many neocon/Republicans who have pointed the accusing finger at so many others even while they were doing the same thing) who have crossed the moral lines??

Of course we could also list a bunch of Democrats to that list...but what would be the point. After all, its the conservatives pointing the finger.

I recommend these neocons worry about cleaning up their own backyard before they go about worrying about the Democrats backyard.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Jan 23, 2010, at 5:43 PM

The power of free speech.


-- Posted by AF Brat on Sat, Jan 23, 2010, at 5:05 PM

Republican and conservative, SC Lt. Gov. compares people getting gov't help to 'stray animals' who 'breed' because they don't know better.


I am shocked that in this day and age we have politicians in office that think the way this fellow does. No wonder our Nation is in the tank.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Jan 23, 2010, at 4:58 PM

41 industry leaders call on Congress to halt corporate 'bribery'


-- Posted by news across on Sat, Jan 23, 2010, at 4:47 PM

Watchdog groups warn: 'Corporate globalization' of US elections is upon us


-- Posted by news across on Sat, Jan 23, 2010, at 4:10 PM

AF Brat,

There is nothing wrong with my pointing out to xray that he is not a qualified expert in economics...and I am an qualified expert in economics. I see nothing wrong with that considering the context.

I think perhaps your problem with the comment lies in the fact that you and xray both espouse and embrace neocon political philosophy and I oppose neocon political philosophy, and like a faithful neocon you oppose all other notions.

If xray wants to intelligently discuss economics then perhaps he should earn an education in this complex branch of sociology as I did.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Jan 23, 2010, at 3:59 PM

AFBrat, Mrxray, and JOwnby, you have been silent in regard to the Fair Elections Now Act. You have also been silent as to the activist turn of the SCOTUS. I am interested (seriously) as to your take on these two subjects.

Are you in favor of the Supreme Court overturning settled law? Do you think that the FENA now before Congress is good, bad, or meaningless?

I, as always, am looking for common ground, that we the people can mobilize around.

I believe the current defacto disenfranchisement of the breathing citizens of this country, by corporations/unions must be overcome if we are to restore our democracy. Do you share that belief?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Jan 23, 2010, at 11:25 AM

AFBrat and JOwnby, I would suggest the two of you take your own advice. The pontificating from you two is no less "arrogant" and reeks no less of orations from on high than anything anyone else has ever posted.

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Sat, Jan 23, 2010, at 11:08 AM

Newa Across posted: "Look mate...if you want to talk economics with me...get a BBA, a BS, or a BA in economics like I did, and then we can discuss these matters. Until then, most economic discussions will sound like nonsense to you... ."

Arrogant aren't we? No idea that can't be explained to an intelligent person (mrxray qualifies) in 100 words or less, will never sell.

Thank God those of us with "Dr." before our names can't run the world by ourselves. We must convince others and that's never easy. Good da', Mate.

-- Posted by AF Brat on Sat, Jan 23, 2010, at 9:59 AM


It would take me years to teach you enough economics for you to understand how and why capitalism suffers from periodic depressions and I lack the time or the desire to do so.

As to when the first great depression ended..well we were pretty well out in recovery by 1939...2 full years before the war for us began...it wasn't perfect but it was a **** site better than how the Republicans left it. By the time of our entry into the war, the first great depression was completely over.

Anyway, only capitalism suffers boom and bust cycles. the only events that really affect a socialist (scientifically planned economy) are natural disasters (such as sever drought) and economic sanctions by other nations (such as the ones we imposed and continue to impose on Cuba).

Look mate...if you want to talk economics with me...get a BBA, a BS, or a BA in economics like I did, and then we can discuss these matters. Until then, most economic discussions will sound like nonsense to you because you don't have the prerequisites or even a basic understanding of macro economic theories. If you would prefer not to major in economics then please do us all a favor and hop on up there to Columbia and take courses in the following areas. College algebra...1 semester, 1 year (2 semesters) of calculus, intro to macro economics, intro to micro economics, money and banking, accounting 1, 2, 3, and 4 (4 semesters...1 year beginning accounting and 1 year intermediate accounting), intermediate macro economics, and a course in econometrics...that should be enough for you to begin to understand and discuss economic theories intelligently.

Let me know in a few years when you are ready and we can get down to brass tacks on economics

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Jan 23, 2010, at 9:45 AM

As for the dollar equalling a vote and the McCain-Feingold bill, this bill did NOTHING to stop corporate spending and influence in the election, and in fact just made the whole campaign process more convoluted and corrupt. McCain/Feingold simply allowed some big corporations an exemption based on the simple fact that they owned a news outlet, so big corps simply purchased those if they did not have them OR they just went around these rules by playing in the 527 organizations and using other loop holes that allowed them to actually better HIDE where their money was going.

So, since the SC decided that they had to strike down this bill because of the inequity that it created, then how is it worse than it was with the rules in the McCain/feingold bill in place?

The problem is that the people in DC are so corrupted that they will not fix this on their own and both sides will continue to ignore the problem because it would take power and money away from them. It is going to take initiatives at the state level to force changes at the Fed level.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jan 23, 2010, at 6:13 AM

news across: Thanks for the Book length lecture that is pointless because you absolutely have ideas regarding me that you cannot back up. I have not defended the power that special interest groups weild over the political game and the economy that they are able to influence by the rules that their corrupted politicians make.

Again, as I have informed you before, it does not matter what type of economic approach that you want to use, YOU still refuse to acknowledge that humans and human nature will ALWAYS influence any type of economic system and will always try to find ways around the rules to best benefit their selves.

It is VERY naive to blame the Great Depression on capitalism and the free market as it has so many complex and intertwined events and causes that it is impossible to blame it on one thing. It is intellectually simplistic to say it was the fault of the free market or capitalism.

Also, nothing based in reality suggests that anything but WWII pulled us and the world out of the great depression, in fact many many events and factors suggest that FDR and the New Deals prolonged the depression. But really this does not have anything to do with the question I posed regarding the Supreme Court making its decision on McCain/Feingold.

But the fact that the Government, meaning Obama and the Dems AND the actions that were taken at the end of Bush's admin, continually raising the Debt Ceiling and spending trillions to attempt to spend our way out of this recession is idiotic. No government job is every as efficient as a private industry job and infact with the way the obama admin is spending the money, it is taking MILLIONS to make just a few low paying jobs. The stimulus has not stimulated, jobs have been lost and with the new fees on the banks, the market has been losing money again, just when it was possibly trying to recover, and the list goes on.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jan 23, 2010, at 6:12 AM

Well I see that mrxray is certainly versed in the Republican/conservative/big-corporatist talking points of the day...and he is clearly on the side of the status quo as regards corporatists bribing our elected officials. I see no surprises there.

As to the free market concept. This is just another name for neoclassical economics or as some call it "Laissez-faire" (The phrase is French and literally means "let do," though it would more accurately translate to "let it be" or "leave it alone). Neoclassical economic policies (conservative economic policy), by the way, is what gave us both the first Great Depression and the current Great Depression. In its purist form, Free-Market economics assumes that the random market place can decide all matters -- including public decisions -- and that dollar vote (the more dollars you have the more votes you get) should always be the controlling mechanism. Its not very democratic...in fact it is the opposite of democracy. For example, as to the illicit drug trade the free marketeer would tell us, the free market can decide whether or not people want and will continue to use illicit drugs and no government intervention is necessary or desired. If there is no demand for illicit drugs, then there won't be a drug problem. Of course this approach ignores a lot of other variables as if they don't exist (such as the addictive quality of many drugs) Free marketers believe in no regulation and that all matters can be settled by the random occurrences of the market place (or as Adam Smith called it "the invisible hand of the market place").

Folks one other interesting thing about neoclassical (free-market/ conservative) economics...never in the history of the United States have neoclassical economic policies ever been able to pull our economy out of a depression. Keynesian economics on the other hand (used by liberals) is the only economic policy that DOES have empirical evidence that it can pull a depressed economy back from the brink of disaster. These were the economic policies used by FDR...who consulted John Keynes often for advice.

The best argument conservatives have had yet is that since a depression is a period of declining prices accompanied by high unemployment that consumption will resume in full when the price drops to the point that folks will start consuming again -- a price they find acceptable.

Unfortunately, the empirical evidence says it doesn't work that way. John Keynes explained why. The actual behavior we see from consumers during a depression is this...if the price has dropped this much since yesterday...just imagine how low it will be if I wait to purchase till tomorrow. The next day when the price drops a little more the consumer responds in the same way, consumption continues to drop, and consumption will never reach a level high enough to end the depression (and by end I mean restore all the lost jobs while increasing consumption}.

The fact is that neoclassical (free-market/conservative) economics is what caused our economy to collapse in the 2007/2008 crash. Allowing this economic approach to our economy to continue will ultimately leave our National economy in the same state as most 3rd World economies...very few jobs, no middle class for all intents and purposes, a small handful of very very rich people, and masses of poor and starving.

Is that really want we want? Do we really want to return to the Republican Party economic policies that gave us an effective unemployment rate of 22%? Can we afford to put our economy and our Nation in the hands of folks who think like Bush and the other Republicans who caused this collapse utilizing so-called "free" market (neoclassical) economic policies?

If the answer is yes, all I can say is good luck with that...because we are going to need all the luck we can get with those kinds of policies...that and get used to a considerably reduced living standard (see Mexican average living standards for more on this).

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Jan 23, 2010, at 4:11 AM

Nanadot: You stated: "Could I stand to not pay for multi-million dollar lobbyists, CEO bonuses, an army of insurance clerks at every doctor's office, gigantic ad campaigns, and bribery to our elected officials (oops, donations) - yeah, I think I could pass on that part..."

and explain to me how these things are part of the free market. All things mentioned, except the insurance clerks are ALL part of the political GAME that is corrupted, not a function of the free market... what dont you understand about that?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jan 23, 2010, at 2:50 AM

I am just curious about what you guys are thinking. McCain-feingold gave an unfair situation to BIG corporations that own news outlets over big corporations that do NOT own news outlets. The decision by the SCOTUS merely removed that inequity. McCain-Feingold failed at its intended purpose as the corps merely found loopholes and other avenues to send their money to, such as supporting TAX paying 527s or whatever the method they used. CORPS and other special interest spend more money than ever in this last pres election.... exactly what damage is this SCOTUS decision doing that was not already being done by corporations by methods other than direct contributions?

The Rhetoric on this decision does not match the reality of what the action actually does.

REAL reform needs to happen but the McCain-Feingold did not really solve anything.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jan 23, 2010, at 2:42 AM

Slater I also would send my hundred in a heart beat.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Jan 23, 2010, at 2:09 AM

Jo I have also wondered about White Tornado. He may just be laying back, laughing at the lot of us, at least I hope there isn't a more serious reason for his absence. I have not always fully agreed with him, but I have found his comments provocative.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Jan 23, 2010, at 1:39 AM

"Domestic Espionage Alert: Spy Drone Discovered"

with video:


-- Posted by news across on Sat, Jan 23, 2010, at 1:27 AM

"NASA: 2009 tied for 2nd-warmest year, 00s hottest decade too"


-- Posted by news across on Sat, Jan 23, 2010, at 12:02 AM

With the Supreme Court Ruling, is another step in the Process of HiJacking our Government! Thanks for the links you've Posted, News Across & Nana Dot , Oklahoma! I hope White Tornado is doing well ! He hasn't Posted for a while?

-- Posted by Jo on Fri, Jan 22, 2010, at 11:45 PM

"Israelis protest over 'fascist' Jerusalem settlements"


-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jan 22, 2010, at 11:01 PM

TARP overseer: "The banks 'will own all of us' without reform"


-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jan 22, 2010, at 7:51 PM

Grayson: "Fight now or 'kiss your country goodbye' to Exxon, Wal-Mart"


Its good to see the Democrats taking the lead in stopping payoffs to our politicians by Big Business.

...and where does the Party of No! stand on this? They support Big Corporate interests, have decided to side with the Corporatists, and are opposing a Government by the People, of the People, and for the People.

Show the conservatives and their fellow travelers in Big Business who is really in charge of our Nation by signing the petition at "Save Democracy":


-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jan 22, 2010, at 7:44 PM

Yeah I am with ya there WTF.

In fact I would like to see most of these rich, fat-cat conservative bankers drawn and quartered but I guess that would be going a bit far...

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jan 22, 2010, at 6:59 PM

News Across,

I'd like to go even further and threaten some of these S.O.B.'s with actual prison time.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Jan 22, 2010, at 6:26 PM

I am greatly encouraged by the current efforts of the Obama Administration to bring banks back under the control of the People.

These rich, fat-cat, robber-Barron conservatives, who own and control the big banks, collapsed our economy and then asked us...the voters and taxpayers...to give them a huge cash handout and then made enormous profit from that handout and then gave themselves huge "bonuses" -- bonuses that total in the billions.

These Big Bankers on Wall street need to be brought under control and it needs to be done now.

We need jobs for struggling families...not rich, fat-cat, conservatives who think their right to get even richer and fatter is superior to your right to a decent paying job with fair wages and benefits.

Its time we all get behind the President and save this Nation and our economy from the rich, robber-Barron conservatives who own and control the banking industry!!

...and when we are done with that...we need to have another look at this medical access problem in the USA and establish a single-payer system similar to that of our Allies.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jan 22, 2010, at 4:26 PM

OKR - It goes without saying, but I'd want to see all of the legislators voted out of their seats in Congress if they vote against the Bill.

I'd be more than happy to send my hundred if I knew it was going to be used to help elect honest people.

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Jan 22, 2010, at 2:38 PM

I erred, when I said it would be finance by tax payer dollars, there is more to it than that, among other things a tax, or surcharge on government contractors. Read the link for the rest.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Jan 22, 2010, at 1:48 PM

One thing we all can do is get behind the pending Fair Elections Now Act. It would help to restore the voice of the people. It is about financing the elections of those who refuse corporate, and union donations. This is not, I repeat this is not, a conservative versus liberal issue. It is about returning the power to the people.

The law would allow honest Republicans, and Democrats, who refuse corporate, and union donations, a stance we should all embrace, to still have a fighting chance to win. Are you listening Tea Baggers? Are you listening Blue Dogs?

It would allow them, and honest Independents, who stir the interests of Democrats,Republicans, and independents enough to secure a certain amount of individual donations, each of no more than one hundred dollars, to get more funds (from our tax dollars) so that they would have a real chance to contest those who are taking corporate/union payola.

Don't we all want that?

I would be suspicious of any in Congress that continued to opt for corporate/union support if this, the opportunity to communicate directly with, and be financially supported by, the voting constituency were available.

For what reason other than self enrichment would they not welcome the opportunity to spend their time on the people's business, instead of the majority of their time on fund raising. Incumbents would still have many advantages over challengers. No longer though, would they have the advantage of ignoring the voters. There are more reasons, but to make at least an effort at brevity I will stop.

Please read the following link. This bill may be the most important one in Congress today. We voters must do all we can to wrest power from those who have no vote, but through perverse twists influence our representatives, instead of us. http://www.publicampaign.org/node/38166

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Jan 22, 2010, at 1:41 PM

No quarrel here with your link Newsacross.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Jan 22, 2010, at 12:37 PM

Oklahoma Reader,

It is depressing to see our Government in the pocket of the capitalists...but such is the nature of capitalism. Politicians can be purchased if the bid is the right price...but it doesn't have to be that way.


-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jan 22, 2010, at 5:12 AM

Make no mistake this latest coup by the Corporatists is a grave danger to democracy. It is now evident that they have extended their control to all three branches of the federal government.

Every American, right, left, or center should be disturbed by this turn of events. Right, left, or center your influence is nothing, anywhere in our federal government, if your interests are counter to what corporations want.

It is a sad day for this beleaguered old democracy.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Jan 22, 2010, at 3:11 AM

According to that august body the Supreme Court of The United States of America, corporations are no longer restrained in any way as to how much money they throw into elections.

Where is the outrage of conservatives to this extreme over reaching by the Supreme Court. They have overturned settled law, based on many decisions since 1907, some of which were unanimous decisions of the Court.

Make no mistake the "Roberts Court" is an activist court. An activist court was once anathema to conservatives...not a peep from them now. That is what happens when hypocrites are nominated, and confirmed by hypocrites.

Now the lid is lifted on another "Pandora's Box". We the people with our little voices will not be able to compete with the bellows that blanket our land, those of the corporations, and unions. They will spend their unfettered millions in a constant refrain to assure the election of their sycophants. Many of those unleashed corporate "citizens", foreign dominated in today's world economy, do not give a tinker's **** as to what is good for the United States. God help us, for our voices will no longer be heard elsewhere. http://motherjones.com/mojo/2010/01/stev...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Jan 22, 2010, at 2:40 AM


Thanks for including the MHS Talent Show on the Home page.

My wife and I both really enjoyed seeing all those talented young people in Marshall perform. May I add that I thought the first vocalist, the young lady, is very gifted, has a wonderful voice, and should definitely consider a career in music. However, all the kids did an equally great job and we really enjoyed watching the clip.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jan 22, 2010, at 1:24 AM

Past Decade Warmest Ever, NASA Data Shows


-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jan 22, 2010, at 1:14 AM

Well friends and neighbors, I know you probably already know that it is Summer time in Sydney, Australia, but check this out...temp tomorrow will be 109 degrees and the humidity is relentless.

Yep...its Summer-time in Sydney! Oddly enough...I like it.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jan 22, 2010, at 1:08 AM


Unless Obama swings hard left sometime soon, he won't be returning to the White House. I might add that the same is true for many of our members of Congress.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jan 21, 2010, at 11:26 PM

International Criminal Court Complaint Filed Against Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Tenet, Rice, Gonzales


-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jan 21, 2010, at 10:49 PM

Largest US health insurer's profits rise 30 percent


-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jan 21, 2010, at 6:12 PM

Tontonnii - Bravo, I couldn't agree more.

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Thu, Jan 21, 2010, at 4:42 PM

grayhair: Click on the "Sports" heading above - there are several stories on MHS basketball, including one from Monday of this week.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Thu, Jan 21, 2010, at 4:39 PM

So how come there isn't any articles for Marshall high school basketball anymore? just wondering.... is it because of the bashing on the sorry thing they call a coach?

-- Posted by greyhair on Thu, Jan 21, 2010, at 4:00 PM

In conjunction with the first anniversary of the Obama Administration the site at the following link is asking its readers to submit a haiku addressing their thoughts about it. http://blog.buzzflash.com/node/10307

My favorite thus far:

Barack Obama

Recipient of my cash

May I have my change

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Jan 21, 2010, at 12:55 PM

Well said Tontonnii!

The politicians are clueless as to the concerns of so many of us.

Most of them have no real appreciation that we live each day with the looming fear that we are just one major illness away from financial ruin.

America can, and must do better.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Jan 21, 2010, at 12:26 PM

Look in the mirror and be totally honest with yourself. Do you know JUST EXACTLY what is being proposed for health care? What IS the health care bill going to either give or take away??? You have listened to a bunch of people who will never have to worry about health care the rest of their lives tell you that it will destroy the country. Well let's get the assured health care away from them and put them on the same plans that you and I have to accept. Hummm, I wonder what they would do if that happened. When you have enough money to pay for your health care, then why should you give a **** what happens to the rest of your fellow americans??? People without unlimited backing can't run for office hence you need money to obtain an elected office. These people can afford health care without the backing of the government but they will have it once they serve their terms of office. The rest of us have to put our future in the hands of people who frankly don't have to give a moments notice to what happens to us. You, therefore, try to actually fight for something that is going to benefit all of the American public. Don't make this a political Republican vs Democrat fight. The Republicans that are against this are doing it only because they are "Republicans." The Democrats are spouting "Our health care bill." This shouldn't be "West Side Story!" But don't they remind you of a couple of gangs on the street? Get POLITICS out of the equasion and get humanity in. Why not let all the Haitians die? Why take care of them? Why send food and medicine to them? Because it is the humane thing to do. Don't say anything for one moment. Just think about your neighbor, or a co-worker or a relative. Do they have all the opportunity to have the best health care that you do? Let's fight to help each other.

-- Posted by Tontonnii on Thu, Jan 21, 2010, at 8:02 AM

At the risk of offending many in "corn country", including friends, and relatives I am compelled to post the following link. It is about a new study that indicates that Monsanto's genetically modified corn causes causes liver damage in rats that they used for their research. We all eat corn.

Please don't shoot the messenger. I know that there are a lot of good people in Saline County that would never grow anything that they thought would harm people. So, if you would, just take a look at the information, and form your own opinion. It will at least make you aware that there may be a problem, and that being of good conscience, you will want to keep an eye on this, and further investigation.

Thank you. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/12...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Jan 21, 2010, at 1:28 AM


Here is an ordinary Democrat. His outrage, and the reasons for it, as stated in his own words captures the essence of why so many Democrats are turning their backs on the party and in some cases following that with a full moon.

Both parties have deserted their rank, and file. It is all about the Corporatocracy.

I am thinking that the primary races in both parties this year will be more interesting, and meaningful than the general election.

Vote populist!

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Jan 21, 2010, at 12:54 AM

Guns, and gore are out moded in the modern world when used as leverage to dominate the thinking,and actions in other countries.

Over the last half century our major armed ventures have yielded diminished returns, always less than the one before.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Jan 21, 2010, at 12:33 AM

Fog was temporarily washed away this evenin by heavy rain, small hail, and the usual high winds. All quiet at the moment. At least we didn't have tornadoes tonight. Sure am glad I don't live around San Diego where they have real tornadoes. ;)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Jan 21, 2010, at 12:19 AM

Evenin NanaDot. All is well?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Jan 21, 2010, at 12:05 AM

Thanks for the "Reason" link AFB. Many thinking people agree that our foreign policy is an utter disaster.

The Chinese approach to achieving dominance is much superior. Most fail to realize that they are out to conquer the world without firing a shot. They are more than off to a good start.

Can you imagine the huge difference we could have made in the middle east had we poured the amount of money that we have spent on war, and will spend on its residual effects, into building instead of destroying, into owning instead of killing. Talk about winning the hearts, and minds, talk about having a direct and persuasive influence on their governments. It is mind boggling what we may have achieved.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Jan 21, 2010, at 12:00 AM

O. T. but too good not to pass on.


-- Posted by AF Brat on Wed, Jan 20, 2010, at 7:56 PM

Common sense, so much common sense.

"The way back to voters' hearts is not through boosting the size and scope of government (something else that Obama and the Dems simply filched from the Bush-era GOP) but by unmistakably trimming some sails. Health care reform, such as it is, should consist of giving individuals more options via a deregulated, non-job-based marketplace where costs are made more transparent rather than less so. It works everywhere else in the economy and will work in health care. Regarding government spending, it means freezes all around and reductions in staff sizes at all levels of government. It means starting (and winning) a debate over ridiculous public-sector retirement packages that bankrupt whole polities for the benefit of a privileged few. With foreign policy, it means thinking through a coherent set of principles that will guide our interactions, and not just our reactions, in the world, focusing on trade rather than aid and warfare. It means fighting terrorism with amply-funded intelligence services rather than the misbegotten occupation of whole troubled regions."


-- Posted by AF Brat on Wed, Jan 20, 2010, at 6:37 PM

My Aussie wife, Julie, just asked an interesting question I wanted to share with you folks back home.

She Asks, "How long will it be before Newly elected Senator Scott Brown's girlfriends (and/or boyfriends) start coming out of the woodwork..."

Now she isn't accusing Mr. Brown of anything...but let's be serious about this and consider what we do know...he is a former nude male model, he is rich, and he is powerful.

Need we say more?

I think I will just sit back in my comfy chair here in Oz and watch the fireworks there in America because this is about to get real interesting.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Jan 20, 2010, at 4:40 PM

"Whistleblower reveals how insurers can game healthcare bill"


-- Posted by news across on Wed, Jan 20, 2010, at 4:27 PM


-- Posted by salinemg on Wed, Jan 20, 2010, at 3:41 PM


You have a good heart and its in the right place.

As they like to say here in Australia, good on ya mate!

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Jan 20, 2010, at 3:40 PM

Look, don't get me wrong. I know absolutely nothing about how the Economy work's or the Government, very little! But i do think the People that do,tend too leave out most of the People that keep this Country going! I've always been asking this question.And either to thick-headed to understand, or something is wrong with the System. I'm not the sharpest tack in the box,but we need something that put's the People welfare first, before the Economy and excessive Profit's! If the Government taking over the Health of the People & Research that makes thing better, is Socialssum, i'm for it! If we can take over every Disaster that happens in the World, (and we should help), we should be able to take on the well being of our own Country! But i think Profit's is winning out. Life and well being of the People ,comes in second to just about everything else! I'm eager to see some Leader to correct it! But most go along with the System. There has to be something else,Wouldn't Single Payer be better then this other Complicated Insanity they have come up with?? Personally i don't think the People want anything other than a self centered remedy that helps no one! Sorry

-- Posted by Jo on Wed, Jan 20, 2010, at 3:26 PM

Oklahoma Reader

It is a sad state of affairs indeed. There is no real health care reform bill...because the only true health care reform would be legislating a single payer system or a socialized system as we have in Australia. I don't like it, but it appears many Americans will continue to be denied health care simply because they are poor.

Don't look for any new jobs anytime soon...things will be getting worse not better.

All that the Mass Senatorial election has done is ensure that neither side will pass any legislation. We have seen this before...its called gridlock, and we know how gridlock works.

Anyway it looks like it won't be too much longer and the ultra right wing Republican Party will be back in the drivers seat passing more legislation just like the legislation we saw under Bush...only more of it and a lot meaner.

All I can say is thank goodness I won't be subject to American law when those ultra right wingers get the White House back in 2012.

This Yankee-Doodle-Dandy is staying put in Australia where we have socialized medicine, a strong economy, strong social programs that protect our poor and middle class, and where we have a functioning government...and by functioning I do mean they can pass legislation.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Jan 20, 2010, at 3:25 PM

It is all about jobs, jobs, jobs, there ain't any.


At least there are no permanent jobs on the horizon, which among other things, makes real healthcare reform necessary.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jan 20, 2010, at 9:42 AM

JO: Explain what happens if you take away the profits in health care. What happens to salaries, research and development, employee benefits, upkeep on facilities and building of new facilities, training for staff and all of the other things that ANY industry needs to run their business? Dont you think that the quality of care would be reduced if you take away profits?

Just curious how you think the system would function without profits without harming quality of care in any way.

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Jan 20, 2010, at 7:47 AM

Newsacross... Profit is not the only motivation but profit is a necessity for most businesses to operate since profit is how they pay for their supplies, employees, benefits for the employees and any and all expansion of said business. Take away the profit, or the dream of profit, then you have much less incentive to take the financial risk to start up businesses. Why do you think that when taxes go up, or the threat of tax increases occurs in DC, that jobs slow down? It would be naive to think that people do not count in profits when they are analyzing the risk involved to start their own business with their own money or that of their family and friends.

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Jan 20, 2010, at 7:42 AM

OKR: I really do not care about abortion at the Fed level. It is not something that should be discussed or debated at the federal level anyway. It is a state and local issue and should be treated as such, as defined in the constitution. Abortion has never and will never create or take away jobs. Even in the last minutes leading up to this election even some major players in the Dem party have been suggesting that we need to worry about JOB creation instead of the Health care bill and some have said that we need to restart the health care debate. This is something that they would have never said with the 60 vote majority.

I have no problem with an individual state dealing with health care as they wish. THAT is how the constitution is supposed to work, elected reps from the state's regions get together and do what THEIR constituents want. That is not what is happening at the Fed level with all the tricks and back door dealings and bribes and coercions going on.

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Jan 20, 2010, at 7:36 AM

OKR: I really do not care about abortion at the Fed level. It is not something that should be discussed o

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Jan 20, 2010, at 7:33 AM

Regarding the vote in Mass.

I don't see how one conservative party's candidate is any better than the other conservative party's candidate. Either way, nothing constructive will get done in Congress.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Jan 20, 2010, at 2:00 AM


Its inspiration that drives innovation...not profits.

Your assumption that only money motivates people is a left over of the 19th Century Taylor Scientific Method of Management which was replaced with the Humanist Approach to Management after the Westinghouse Study in 1922 which proved beyond any reasonable doubt that folks are motivated by far more than just profit.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Jan 20, 2010, at 1:57 AM

Seems to me that if the Geiringer property is not selected the school bond issue will once again be defeated. There seems to be very little support for the other two sites.

There is close to majority support for the Geiringer site. If you add those in favor of the other two sites, but would still vote affirmative on any site you have a likely majority.

This opinion is based on the unscientific poll by the MDN, which this time does not appear to be overly effected by repeat voters.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jan 20, 2010, at 1:55 AM

The best thing about Scott Brown's win is that he has promised to vote against the rotten health care bill that the Senate is trying to force upon the American people.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jan 20, 2010, at 1:39 AM

I am neither enthused, nor chagrined by Scott Brown's election. Nor would I have been if Ms. Coakley had been elected. Lets wait, and see. Odds are that he is, or will become another minion of the Corporatocracy. Same with Coakley.

By the way MrXray are you aware that Mr. Brown supports abortion rights excepting third term abortion? Did you know that he voted in favor of the Massachusetts health care reform which is very similar to the one before congress? He says he will vote against the congressional bill because it is too expensive, not because of its features.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jan 20, 2010, at 1:23 AM

Scott brown wins! Now that senate seat belongs to the people not some imagined American royalty that kills people and gets away with it

profits drive innovation. Witout profits therefore innovation vasectomies and birth control would not be possible

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Jan 20, 2010, at 12:31 AM

New Across: I tend to agree with you. We definitely need Socialized Medicine! Treating Disease should not be a Profit making endeavor to buy and sell like a sack of corn! It may not be a perfect system in any form, but everyone is treated like a human being,and not worry about eating or being thrown out of there Home,like happens now! I think it has gotten now were all our leaders play politics and do nothing else! I would like to see People lose this Politically correct attitude and start challenging all of them!! I have been disrespectful to a couple of locals,and they didn't like it! Tough,they have got us worn down with all this Political Correctness.

-- Posted by Jo on Wed, Jan 20, 2010, at 12:23 AM

AFBrat: It is not the progressives that are pushing this monstrosity of a bill. It is the center/right coalition that is leading the effort to ram it down our throats. I do not know of a single progressive that is pleased by this bill. I do know of many who do not support it at all, and many more who retch, but support it by rationalizing it is a start, more can be changed later.

Actually the position most favored by bonafide progressives is single payer. LOL that position is probably anathema to you. Don't despise us for the wrong reasons.:)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jan 20, 2010, at 12:14 AM

AF Brat

Do you assume that because I posted an article about the suffering of a family in the midst of the American "root, hog, or die" medical system that I support the Democrats or Obama?

Think again.

I don't support Obama or any Democrat or any Republican.

This article clearly demonstrates the need for socialized medicine in America...and which of the two conservative parties, the Democrats or the Republicans has the best plan for failure matters not to me.

Until the 2 conservative parties get their act together and finally pass legislation that establishes socialized medicine, tragedies such as the one in the article I posted will probably continue to occur over and over again.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jan 19, 2010, at 9:34 PM

I don't think so, hunterfisher. There is nothing wrong with my hearing. We do have new windows and that might have helped. Also, we were not outside at the time. It was quiet in the house, with no TV on for screening. And we heard nothing.

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Tue, Jan 19, 2010, at 9:12 PM

News Across, perhaps you failed to read the article you referred to all the way to the end. It clearly points the finger straight at those Democrats writing the Obamacare bill.

The article says "To these advocates' dismay, both the House and Senate health-care reform bills explicitly permit balance billing, even though it's a major contributor to health-related bankruptcies." Oh, Oh those heartless Progressives. They, with the WH's blessing, can buy off the pharmaceutical industry, buy off the hospital industry, buy off physicians with extra money, and, indeed, buy off the INSURANCE INDUSTRY by forcing millions of young, healthy persons to buy unneeded coverage, but they can't find the heart to aid this young man and his desperate family.

Maybe it is not a miracle that Scott Brown won tonight in Massachusetts. Maybe some folks are starting to comprehend the Reid-Pelosi bill and realize the stupendous flim-flam that's going on.

-- Posted by AF Brat on Tue, Jan 19, 2010, at 9:05 PM

In response.

Email sent.

Just wanted to let you know that the search engine on this site does not work at all. Thought you might want to have that addressed. Thanks

-- Posted by krsary on Tue, Jan 19, 2010, at 5:23 PM

Response by Eric Crump/Editor:

It seems to be working fine for me, but if there's a problem, we want to fix it. Could you send email to marshalleditor@socket.net and describe the problem in more detail? Thanks!

-- Posted by krsary on Tue, Jan 19, 2010, at 6:58 PM

Miss Marple,

With all due respect...you need a hearing check up asap.

-- Posted by hunterfisher on Tue, Jan 19, 2010, at 6:37 PM

"A child saved, but family crushed by doctor bills

Insurer's permission for out-of-network care didn't protect against costs"


-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jan 19, 2010, at 6:34 PM

We live fairly close to campus - didn't hear a thing.

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Tue, Jan 19, 2010, at 6:02 PM

Just wanted to let you know that the search engine on this site does not work at all. Thought you might want to have that addressed. Thanks

-- Posted by krsary on Tue, Jan 19, 2010, at 5:23 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
It seems to be working fine for me, but if there's a problem, we want to fix it. Could you send email to marshalleditor@socket.net and describe the problem in more detail? Thanks!


Last night Harry Belafonte (who was a close companion of Martin King Jr.) appeared on the Tavis Smiley program and talked about his bitter disappointment in our government and namely about the current administration's failure to push itself in fixing what's wrong with our country.

He referred to an FDR interview during which Roosevelt said he wanted all Americans to "push his administration" to get the country fixed, and he said that Obama has used the same phrase in a number of his speeches. He went on to say that Americans need to push on the administration to see that our problems are resolved, but he also said he believes the only way we will see it done is by organized and peaceful demonstrations.

He believes, like so many of us, that our government officials are immoral and will never do right by our country unless we come together and push on them to do right.

So, what you said in one of your recent posts about demonstrations Belafonte also belives to be the only way the government will ever pay attention to the public, making our elected members uncomfortable for their indifference to the problems of the country.

Maked perfect sense to me.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Jan 19, 2010, at 1:37 PM

Nana Dot posted: "Congress AND the INSURANCE industries need to stay out of it. I actually hold no hope that either might actually occur -- radiation is BIG BUSINESS."

My point exactly.

-- Posted by AF Brat on Tue, Jan 19, 2010, at 10:09 AM

Deannie - This paper is in Marshall, Missouri. I'm thinking you might be in Marshall, Texas. Probably not anyone here that saw your accident.

-- Posted by broke-n-busted on Tue, Jan 19, 2010, at 9:48 AM

hello, their was a wreak at the at the intersection hwy 59 and pinecrest dr. on 1/4/0010. please if someone saw it please help me. it invoved a black maxium and a 18 wheeler. we all know about how fast that light changes fast. please help me. i have a son is very sick and we need another car as fast as possible. thank you so much for help in this. deannie davidson. my # is 903- 9352433 thanks again

-- Posted by deanniedavidson on Tue, Jan 19, 2010, at 8:15 AM

Oklahoma Reader

I choose 5...all of the above.

As to who cares? I do mate.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jan 19, 2010, at 3:15 AM

This one has it all pathos, bathos, and absurdity. It is my nominee for dark humor of the day. http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2010/...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Jan 19, 2010, at 1:01 AM

The commission assigned to investigate the financial collapse has started its questioning of what Paul Krugman calls "major financial industry honchos".

Jamie Dimon of JPMorgan Chase admitted that his bank never even considered the possibility of a large decline in home prices. What? There is more to be found at the link. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/15/opinio...

Are these guys that stupid, or are they liars, or both? It scares the hell out of me that the Corporation Capos that really run our country may be as obtuse as they seem.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Jan 19, 2010, at 12:44 AM

Sniper scopes used in Iraq, and Afghanistan are manufactured with cites for bible verses stamped on them with the serial number. http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/us-militar...

Is this: 1. just a curiosity? 2. a violation of the separation of church and state? 3.a hindrance in the effort to win hearts and minds in those countries because it supports the belief that the wars are a Christian crusade against Islam? 4.none of the preceding? 5.all of the preceding?

6. who cares? :)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Jan 19, 2010, at 12:11 AM

Does anyone follow court cases that involve child support?

-- Posted by angry-mom on Mon, Jan 18, 2010, at 8:32 PM

now sirens and a big house fire around the corner from me on e yerby & jefferson area!!

-- Posted by wheresthelove on Mon, Jan 18, 2010, at 8:19 PM


-- Posted by Sissy_Grama on Mon, Jan 18, 2010, at 7:00 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Someone involved in an argument apparently pulled what might have been a gun then took off. No shots. No injuries. Police are looking for the individual now.


"Four US soldiers cast doubt on Gitmo 'suicides'"


-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jan 18, 2010, at 3:40 PM


Revisit the article, you got the wrong girl. The one in the article is a sister-in-law of the one you are referring to.

-- Posted by litlmissme on Mon, Jan 18, 2010, at 3:21 PM

A new question has cropped up under the federal health care plan.

WHO does a woman want deciding on her cancer screening (mammograms):

(1) her family physician who physically examined her and has years of her records;

(2) a panel of government employees who have never examined her and depend on group records, if any; or

(3) the Congress in its collective wisdom?

Breast cancer screening has become, as all federal programs do, a POLITICAL FOOTBALL. And Congress (525 amateurs) is the quarterback calling the plays. Oh my.


And leading the pack of lobbyists, of course, are those who'll make the most money from Congress' decision -- GE and Siemens (corporate giants both).

-- Posted by AF Brat on Mon, Jan 18, 2010, at 12:07 PM


Call the HomeStore and ask them. I have heard they have someone, or may know of someone.

-- Posted by Scarpetta on Mon, Jan 18, 2010, at 10:16 AM

Hey Ownby! So you're working for Security Finance now, eh?

Well, don't worry. Missouri is a no-fault state, you know.

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Jan 18, 2010, at 12:09 AM

Anyone know who does carpet restretching for a reasonable price?

-- Posted by RuralMarshall on Sun, Jan 17, 2010, at 3:21 PM

Here are words that I wrote to someone else, somewhere else. I think they are pertinent in discussion with people who attempt to blame capitalism for all of our problems.

"The problem is that you try to tie any type of economic system, in this case capitalism to the society's ability or desire to be charitable and honest. The capitalist market is flawed ONLY because man is flawed. Any economic system relies SOLELY on the rules set up by man and all economic systems are capable of being exploited by man. So based on this the economic system is not flawed, but man is flawed which means society is flawed.

George Washington and others were very wise when they said that our POLICITAL system would only be successful IF we have MORAL and ETHICAL and GOOD men running it. If we did not have those types in office then it would fail. Basicially you can look at our econimic problems, NOT in the failure of some economic system, but in the failure of MEN and the apathetic failure of our citizens and our society to ensure that GOOD and MORAL and ETHICAL men are in office. It was NOT capitalism that created rules that favored some special interest group or caused politicians to accept money from those special interests groups thus causing the corruption of the political game and in turn our economic situation."

The point is that unless we are capable as a nation and society of ensuring that our rule makers are honest, good, ethical, and moral, then NO economic system will function except to benefit those that make the rules.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Jan 17, 2010, at 4:04 AM


I am looking at the article at the link you posted. Nate Hagens is certainly a highly qualified economist...his background makes him probably the foremost expert in ecological economics and one of the founders of this school of thought. I am still reading the article and researching ecological economics. Its not something I am familiar with...yet...but I will be when I am finished reading up on it.

I am a purist...an economist...which is a specialized branch of sociology. While we certainly point out that all natural resources...including clean air and water... are scarce and it is scarcity that gives all resources, products, and services value. However, typically in economics are concerns focus on 3 specific behaviors that occur in any human society. So to make a long story short...ecological economics is a new field and I have to read up on it some more...lol.

I will comment on the article when I am more familiar with this new branch...distant branch...of economics.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jan 17, 2010, at 1:45 AM

NanaDot: Thank you for the "Oil Drum" link, even though it was not directed toward me. :)

I have read it this morning. I did not read the following comments because I wanted to wrap my own head around the content prior to getting other's take. I intend to mull it a bit, then reread it. I had not seen it before.

My early impression is that it is a beautiful, and fair theoretical concept, one that could work, at least better than our current models.

One aside: I thought of Cuba, and other embargoed nations, and that something with some good consequences (certain concepts of SSE) is forced upon nations as punishment, a delicious irony.

Skeptic, near cynic that I am, I think that the system has only a remote chance of being implemented prior to a total breakdown of our current system. The inherent greed of man will fight it until systemic turmoil has taken away everyone's marbles (both meanings of that last phrase). Having said all that I am glad that I was afforded the opportunity to become somewhat familiar with SSE. It apprises me of one more glimmer of hope for the economic future of humankind. I will probably have more to say on the subject later. I too am interested in the perspective of NewsAcross. Too tired to think more, write more now. Yawn.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Jan 16, 2010, at 2:20 AM

I think that the redistricting issue in Malta Bend should be discussed! The children of Malta Bend get a second rate education, but it costs the taxpayers of the district over $1.02 more in assessed taxes than the Marshall School District. The supportors of the purposed new schools should be looking to the smaller schools to have them fold into the Marshall School District. There will come a time when the State will close those small schools because it costs the state more money to keep hundreds of the K-8 and smaller K-12 schools going. We have to cut the state budget and we need to cut the school levy in Malta Bend. We need to close these small schools NOW.

-- Posted by movaldude on Sat, Jan 16, 2010, at 12:58 AM

AF BRAT: The whole Obama campaign for ANY policy is based solely on Chicago style politics..... "either you help me or I will hurt you" and "how much will it take for me to buy your vote?" There is no openess, only coercion and bribery. It is the SAME OLD SAME old political game on crack.

It does not matter if it is a deal for Nebraska or Florida or to Unions, Obama/liberals are playing the old political game with desparation and old political boss style tactics.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jan 16, 2010, at 12:50 AM

Nandot: I missed a point? SO then you failed in your explaination... oh wait. All you said is that I misinterpreted, no trivialized something pertaining to how much money people make.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jan 16, 2010, at 12:48 AM

nanadot: I wish the whole issue of Wall street/big bankers bonuses and pay issues were as cut and dried as the liberals want to make it.

The government bailed them out and they are paying the money back. I make no claim about what I think they should do, BUT I know it is TOO big and complex of a situation to sit back on a Marshall News website and simplify it down to The republicans are trying to save the fat cats.


-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jan 16, 2010, at 12:45 AM


...So you "bait" people?

That is a very interesting...

...As to your game of stereotyping...please spare me any involvement.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jan 15, 2010, at 6:54 PM

Down and dirty in the chase for votes to pass the Reid-Pelosi bill.

"[Some 'Cadillac Plans' will escape to 40% excise tax on employers] so there will be two Americans receiving the exact same benefits, but one American may be taxed and one wouldn't, and the only difference would be one of them being a member of a union. This is unseemly and unfair, even by the standards of Obamacare. It has nothing to do with policy-making. It's simply an outright bribe to a constituency that has contributed handily to Democratic campaigns.

"And that bribe will most likely come at a direct cost to other [Americans]. Exempting unions is expected to reduce the $150 billion in revenue the tax was supposed to raise by about $60 billion. So in order to make up for the lost revenue, it's entirely possible that Democrats will expand the Medicare payroll tax."


-- Posted by AF Brat on Fri, Jan 15, 2010, at 6:35 PM


Correct me if I am wrong, BUT I believe you just listed a partial list of at least one category of stereotypes you hold as fact when in-fact, they are nothing more than your own, unqualified opinion.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jan 15, 2010, at 6:34 PM

How many have noticed the frequent GM ad for its new "smaller SUV?"

Like all the others with their hands out, GM hasn't learned a single thing from its near-death experience, except that "Daddy" will rescue it when it does stupid things.

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Jan 15, 2010, at 5:31 PM

"Fox News inflates Obama bank fee by factor of 100"


Fox News sure does make a lot of "mistakes" in their broadcasting of the news.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jan 15, 2010, at 2:24 PM

Look for the "made in the USA" on all products.

-- Posted by Pasta on Fri, Jan 15, 2010, at 2:19 PM

Speaking of "Big Banks" they did such a good job in 2009 that the compensation at big banks rose 18% in 2009 over their compensation in 2008.

I know of no other facet of our society that recieved an 18% raise in 2009.

Had enough? It is easy enough to dump them. In addition to many things stated or linked in recent posts some may wish to consider moving their card balance to a local bank, or credit union.

Read this about the callous creatures. http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/wall-s...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Jan 15, 2010, at 2:19 PM


You are absolutely correct...small businesses really contribute to the community.

I have always tried to do business with local, small businesses when I shop. When they built the new super-Walmart in Marshall, I refused to do business with Walmart. The folks that own Walmart didn't live in my neighborhood...heck they don't even live anyplace near Marshall...but the folks that own the local, small businesses do live locally. Not only do they offer better quality goods at local shops...but they are also members of the local community...and our friends and neighbors.

I might also add that I have always gotten much higher value products from local, small business than I have gotten from the importers of Chinese made products. I might pay a little bit more shopping at a local shop...but the quality is always much better too...and quality matters.

No doubt about it in my mind, local shops are always you best bet in the long-term!

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jan 15, 2010, at 2:18 PM

Oklahoma Reader,

Right On! It's the local banks that work with their customers, it's the local banks that really contribute to the community.

We also need to shop at our local Ma and Pa stores, they are a part of the community. When individuals contributed to the new cancer center no picutres where posted in the paper.

Walmart contributes, and it's worth a picture and words................they contribute for the publicity...............not for the community. there were alot of individuals who contributed far more than walmart, and the sacrifice was greater.

Keep your money local! surport your local businesses! and lets squeeze out some of these large corporations!

-- Posted by ceymore on Fri, Jan 15, 2010, at 9:13 AM


It is easy. It is effective. http://www.thenation.com/doc/20100201/ed...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Jan 15, 2010, at 1:26 AM

G'day Newsacross. Thank you.

We handle our financial transactions through two credit unions where my wife, and I are members. Local folks helping local folks. In my opinion credit unions provide many pleasant options that banks do not. We also transact our other business locally as often as we can.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Jan 15, 2010, at 1:12 AM

This thought just occured to me after reading more grim economic news (http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1416882220100114).

It is not about the left, it is not about the right. It is that doing right is all that is left.

We must come together, or perish.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Jan 15, 2010, at 1:04 AM

Oklahoma Reader

I think that is a great idea!!

I have always supported doing business only with local small businesses when ever possible. After all the folks that own those businesses are our friends and neighbors.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jan 15, 2010, at 12:45 AM

Fight back, take your money out of the "too big to fail" banks that we bailed out. The ones that are back on their frenzy of greed, the ones who jack you up with credit card late charges, sky rocketing interest rates, and ridiculous service charges. Yes, Citi, Wells Fargo, Bank of America, and the rest.

Put your money in, and give your business to community banks, and credit unions.

We can punish them even if Congress, and The Administration won't. Check this link to see how easy it is. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-maher...

This is not a conservative, nor liberal issue, it is a citizen issue.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Jan 15, 2010, at 12:25 AM

Regarding the "snow monster" in the photo, he looks like a friendly snow monster to me. Great photo!!

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jan 14, 2010, at 5:46 PM

Jo - you know the business about "honor among thieves." They won't rat on one another.

Glad to see you're getting some warmer temps finally!

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Jan 14, 2010, at 5:29 PM

If some one wants to Prosecute a Person or Persons for Treason, lets go back to the Bush Administration,we might find a few there! Holder should do his **** job, and get this done! Cheney, on T. V . running his mouth! I want to see this before i go,but it's taking a long time!

-- Posted by Jo on Thu, Jan 14, 2010, at 3:45 PM

I am wondering what happened to the article that was online yesterday about the hiring of a lady at the courthouse?? Why is it when there is a legitimate complaint the DMN just deletes everything?? What happened to equality? It is VERY obvious that the issue that was at hand has ruffled some feathers.

-- Posted by toesrcute on Thu, Jan 14, 2010, at 12:56 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
The article is at www.marshallnews.com/story/1601777.html and was never deleted or moved.

Hey JOwnby,

I thought while we are on the topic you might like to read some of the thoughts of some other Americans on the concept of political revolution and the rights of the People.

"Single acts of tyranny may be ascribed to the accidental opinion of a day; but a series of oppressions, begun at a distinguished period and pursued unalterably through every change of ministers, too plainly prove a deliberate, systematic plan of reducing [a people] to slavery." --Thomas Jefferson: Rights of British America, 1774. (*) ME 1:193, Papers 1:125


"The oppressed should rebel, and they will continue to rebel and raise disturbance until their civil rights are fully restored to them and all partial distinctions, exclusions and incapacitations are removed." --Thomas Jefferson: Notes on Religion, 1776. Papers 1:548


"Revolution was effected before the war commenced. The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people . . . . This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution."

John Adams, 1818


"The preservation of the sacred fire of liberty, and the destiny of the republican model of government, are justly considered as deeply, perhaps as finally staked, on the experiment entrusted to the hands of the American people. President George Washington, First Inaugural Address (30 April 1789)

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jan 14, 2010, at 6:04 AM


I almost died laughing when you lost your mind there a few comments back...

Anyway, you went from me telling you about 3rd Class Coach theory and the wisdom of the rich not allowing matters to get out of control, and all of a sudden you have me taking part in the French Revolution...or was it the Russian? lol...

Look sonny boy...I know your neocon nerves are all worn out from defending the very rich (who could not care less about you), but you really need to get yourself under control.

I am just your everyday, law abiding American citizen who is exercising his right to free speech. I am just your average, run-of-the-mill economist telling you why it may not always pay to be rich.

Now you want to issue some kind of veiled threat of some government prosecuting me for treason...and all because I live in Australia while I exercise that right? Let's not even mention that a revolution could manifest itself in the form of an election. We do have other choices out there besides the 2 conservative parties (the Republican and Democrats), and change is really always just an election or two away...if that is the will of the People. But here you are talking about prosecuting me for treason for even mentioning that the rich could become poor in an instant.

Isn't that special...lol lol lol.

Good luck with that sonnyboy...but I doubt you will get far with that.

Reminding the rich that revolutions have occurred before...including the American Revolution...is not treason nor is it sedition. Reminding them of just how vulnerable they are is not treason nor is it sedition. Its called free speech. Oh and no one can take away my American citizenship either...but nice try. Remember sonny boy, I have heard those kinds of nonsensical threats from the running dog lackeys of the capitalists before...and their crazy threats didn't mean anything then either.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Jan 14, 2010, at 2:00 AM

Clever and funny Cheetah.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jan 13, 2010, at 11:27 PM


In the Study of economics we have a little thing called "Third Class Coach" theory. Rather than explain it to you, I will allow you to google it and read up on it. Its titled after the famous painting by the same name and it defines the reason behind most modern revolutions beginning with the French Revolution.

Given what we know of revolutions and their motivations... and most of all their likely outcomes... it is definitely in the best interest of the very rich to make **** sure "third class coach" theory doesn't kick in anytime soon...but it sure seems to be drifting in that direction.

A lot of folks out there would like you to believe the rich comprise about half the population...they don't...in fact they are way outnumbered by the masses...and in the end it is always the masses that decide what will be...and what will not be.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Jan 13, 2010, at 10:18 PM

Geez Aikman8,

Calm down, turn off FOX and take a walk.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Jan 13, 2010, at 9:53 PM

i just watched/heard bill clinton on greta ... that man just provided more leadership during his interview with greta on the haiti situation than good ol barack could ever dream of. as a conservative .. i sure wish we had billy boy back!

clinton was presidential ... obama .. he can only dream he can someday get there instead of his chicago-style backroom crap.

-- Posted by aikman8 on Wed, Jan 13, 2010, at 9:36 PM


Here is a link for you OKR and NanaDot and all other strict believers of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer. It points out that the poor people from one decade are not necessarily the same poor people in the next decade and that the income of the lower and middle levels of income earners has grown, even if their % of income reflects a reduction.

The point is NOT to argue that the poor are not poor, but that you can manipulate numbers and draw what ever conclusion you want, especially if you ONLY take one view or one set of data without considering ALL of the data and all of the different analyzes of the complete picture.

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Jan 13, 2010, at 8:29 PM

Nanadot: Exactly how did I trivialize any wage earners. I merely pointed out the numbers and how much money each category works for. You must have ignored the fact that the top 50% already pay 60% or more of ALL taxes for the bottom 50%. As your income level increases your tax burden increases. Since before 1999 the higher levels of income earners have been paying an ever increasing % of taxes. My questions STILL remains, what economic system is what you want? How much is enough for the top income levels to pay?

IF you make 100K per year you are in the top 7% of wage earners. If you make 62K per year you are in the top 50%. That is not very much money. There is NO trivialization of those that make less than 62K per year, merely statement of fact.

Capitalism has failed? Right, without capitalism the money (capital) would NOT be in the economy. our nation would not have grown in the exponential growth rate that it did. The nation would not have expanded and been able to deal with the world wars and the munitions manufacturing that was required to support the World Wars. health care advances that have been made throughout recent history would have been impossible at the rate that they have been conducted.

Is it perfect? NOPE why? Because of the top 5% of income earners? That is ridiculous unless you consider the fact that our politicians are in the top 5% wage earners and that THEY are the source of the problems with capitalism, THEN yes the top 5% of wage earners ARE the problems but ONLY because they are the ones, with special interest group influence, that are making the rules in which every industry functions THUS causing obstacles in the capitalist markets and preventing the supply/demand function from functioning properly.

Sadly the liberal agenda is telling people that capitalism is failing when in fact it is the liberal agenda and MAN that is causing the system to have an increased capability to be gamed, as you put it

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Jan 13, 2010, at 8:16 PM

Trivia: More Buicks are sold in China than in the US.

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Jan 13, 2010, at 6:59 PM

World's Largest Auto Market? China!


I guess China owes a lot of thanks to the various conservatives in both parties who made GATT and NAFTA a reality.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Jan 13, 2010, at 5:02 PM

mrxray: This graph is for you. http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2009/0...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jan 13, 2010, at 1:49 PM


Hey that is a good idea and that could happen...as it has happened in so many revolutions since the French Revolution.

But may I suggest we get rid of the top 5% of the wealthiest Americans and keep their wealth. Do you really think their absence would even be noticed by the general public?

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Jan 13, 2010, at 2:34 AM

take away the top 10-20% of income earners out of any economy what happens? If they are so evil simply because they have wealth lets just get rid of them and the monies they pay in taxes

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Jan 13, 2010, at 2:28 AM

okr: that is what the liberals want you to believe but is NOT grounded in fact. Things like the size of household has changed since the 1970s which affects the numbers game. Read all that I posted, read the links I posted. You will see that your assumptions are wrong.

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Jan 13, 2010, at 2:25 AM

Well if the French Revolution is any kind of indicator...being rich can certainly have its down side.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Jan 13, 2010, at 2:24 AM

Apples, and oranges, we are speaking of two different things. I am talking about how much is in the working man's wallet, as opposed to how much is in the rich man's treasure chest. There is less in the wallet, more in the treasure chest.

That is the bottom line.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jan 13, 2010, at 2:15 AM

For anyone interested in a good summary of our economy in 2007, 2008, and 2009, I recommend the following PDF excerpt;

it is an Executive Summary of The Economic Policy Institute's "The State of Working America."


It gives a good overview of the problems of wealth distribution and income distribution in the United States. I should warn the feint of heart...it is a most troubling report if you happen to be poor or middle class. Other excepts of the report can be found here as well: http://www.stateofworkingamerica.org/exc...

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Jan 13, 2010, at 2:13 AM

Darn it, I was about to go to bed.

Firstly you are well aware that the tax rate on the rich has been dropping for years. You can not obsfucate that.

If what you say has merit why is it that ordinary people's portion of income continues to drop. At the same time that missing portion has to go somewhere, and of course that is to the rich.

MRxray says: I think you have either missed data or been mislead. Check out one of those links that you are so desirous to have.... it listed the %s of taxes that each of the 1, 5, 10, 20, 50 percentage of incomes has been paying in taxes and it reflects that they have been steadily paying a larger % of taxes every year since at least 1999. I am not sure how you can ignore the data from our Census Bureau.

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Jan 13, 2010, at 2:09 AM

MR.X talk to you tomorrow. I truly am going to bed. Don't know if I can go to sleep though after you have stirred me up. :)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jan 13, 2010, at 2:09 AM

Darn it, I was about to go to bed.

Firstly you are well aware that the tax rate on the rich has been dropping for years. You can not obsfucate that.

If what you say has merit why is it that ordinary people's portion of income continues to drop. At the same time that missing portion has to go somewhere, and of course that is to the rich.

How can you even attempt to argue that is not true?

So I think you are truly missing something to say don't take it out on the rich. Sorry, I am mad as hell, and I want our money back!

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jan 13, 2010, at 2:05 AM

OKR. A pie is round, thus finite. IF I get one out of 10 pieces of pie every year and you get two, then YOUR % and MY % stays the same, no matter how large the pie gets.. Just because the pie increases from 100K to 1million and then to 1 billion, if I have one percent, I have the same amount of the pie as I have had every year

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Jan 13, 2010, at 2:01 AM

sorry.... was bored tonight.... last couple of posts come from the same last link I posted.

That was for your information OKR/blog police

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Jan 13, 2010, at 1:59 AM

Last year, the Census Bureau published a new set of income statistics that adjusted for changing household size and composition. In a single year (2006), this "equivalence-adjusted" computation increased the income share of the poor by 8% and reduced the standard measure of inequality (Gini coefficient) by 4%. Such "equivalency" adjustments would mute unadjusted inequality trends even more.

Since 1998, the U.S. population has increased by over 20 million. Nearly half of that growth has come from immigration, legal and illegal. Overwhelmingly, these immigrants enter at the lowest rungs on the income ladder. Statistically, this immigrant surge not only reduces the income of the "average" household, but also changes the occupants of the lowest income classes. To understand what's happening here, envision a line of people queued up for March Madness tickets. Individuals move up the line as tickets are purchased. But new people keep coming. So the line never gets shorter, even though individuals are advancing.

Something similar happens with the distribution of income. People keep entering the distribution line from the bottom. Even though individuals are moving up the line, the middle of the line never seems to move. Hence, an unchanged -- or even receding -- median marker could co-exist with individual advancement. The people who were at the middle marker before have moved up the distribution line. This is the kind of income mobility that has long characterized U.S. income dynamics.

When you look at the really big picture, it's apparent that living standards are rising across the entire spectrum of incomes. Just since 2000, GDP has risen by 18% while the population has grown by 6%. So per capita incomes have clearly been rising. The growth of per capita income since 1980 or 1970 has simply been spectacular.

The increase in nominal GDP since 2000 amounts to over $4 trillion annually. If you assume that all that money went to the wealthiest 10% of U.S. households, that bonanza would come to a whopping $350,000 per household. Yet according to the Census Bureau, the top 10% of households has an average income of $200,000 or so. The implied bonanza is so absurd that the notion that only the rich have gained from the economic growth can be dismissed out of hand. Clearly, there is a lot of economic advancement across a broad swath of population. Dramatic changes in household composition, household size and immigration tend to obscure this reality.

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Jan 13, 2010, at 1:59 AM

Have gains by the rich come at the expense of a declining living standard for the middle class?

No. If Bill Gates suddenly took his tens of billions of dollars and moved to France, income distribution in America would temporarily appear more equitable, even though no one would be better off. Median family income in America between 1980 and 2004 grew by 17 percent. The middle class (defined as those between the 40th and the 60th percentiles of income) isn't falling behind or "disappearing." It is getting richer. The lower income bound for the middle class has risen by about $12,000 (after inflation) since 1967. The upper income bound for the middle class is now roughly $68,000--some $23,000 higher than in 1967. Thus, a family in the 60th percentile has 50 percent more buying power than 30 years ago. To paraphrase John F. Kennedy, this has been a "rising tide" expansion, with most (though not all) boats lifted.


INteresting link about the not so shrinking income of the lower classes of our citizens

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Jan 13, 2010, at 1:55 AM

Quite sophistic MrXray. Let me put it another way.

If a rich man makes 5m and pays a 70% tax rate (as people of such wealth did in the not so distant past) he pays 3.5m in taxes. His net for the year is 2.5M. Twenty years later the rich man makes 20m and pays a 40% tax rate. He pays 8m in taxes, but nets 12m. He does have a larger share of the pie than he had before. Also he gets to keep more of the pie than ever before that goes through his hands.

Mrxray says: OKR. your flaw in the above scenario as you describe is this. First you say the rich man FIRST pays 70%. THEN you say 20 years later he pays 40%. This is not founded in reality. Since 1999, 11 years, the rich man has had their % of their income INCREASE every year since prior to 1999. 11 years the rich people have been penalized for making money by ever increasing PERCENTS. YOUR example reflects a scenario that says they paid a less percentage of their income into taxes, which is NOT what has happened over time.

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Jan 13, 2010, at 1:50 AM

Mr. Xray: You see that is where we really differ.

What is a fair share?

I think it would be foolish for two old codgers to stay up all night splitting hairs, when neither is going to change the mind of the other. God knows we both have tried.

Have a good nights sleep.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jan 13, 2010, at 1:45 AM

OKR my point was NOT to feel sorry for those in the top half or top 25 or top 10 or top 5 or top 1%. I merely pointed out reality so that you can see how incorrect it is to blame the evil people who make money in our system as THEY ARE paying MORE than their share and have paid a LARGER PERCENT of taxes, increasing annually since before 1999.

The point is how much is enough for those with wealth to pay? Do the pay 100% taxes,95%, 90%, 80% 70%. THEN you have to ask YOURSELF what percent of YOUR wealth do YOU WANT to pay or do you think is fair. The OBVIOUS HUMAN answer is less than the person richer than you and as little as YOU can get away with.

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Jan 13, 2010, at 1:38 AM

actually OKR the ONLY way that happens is if the economy stays the exact tame size from one decade to the next. We know that is not correct. You make incorrect assumptions that the exact same people or entities stay in the same % of the economy from year to year, decade to decade.

The ONLY way your idea of this situation works is IF the economy does not grow AND the people who made 5 million is the exact same person that made 20 million 20 years later. THAT is not based in reality

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Jan 13, 2010, at 1:34 AM

Quite sophistic MrXray. Let me put it another way.

If a rich man makes 5m and pays a 70% tax rate (as people of such wealth did in the not so distant past) he pays 3.5m in taxes. His net for the year is 2.5M. Twenty years later the rich man makes 20m and pays a 40% tax rate. He pays 8m in taxes, but nets 12m. He does have a larger share of the pie than he had before. Also he gets to keep more of the pie than ever before that goes through his hands.

I some how just can't bring myself to feel sorry for the fellow. I guess that I just am not as compassionate as you.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jan 13, 2010, at 1:28 AM

typo notice: 1 percent of 100,000 is 1000. 1% of 1,000,000 is 10,000 but the EXACT same proportion

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Jan 13, 2010, at 1:11 AM

if a pie has 100 1% pieces, then the share of one 1% is always the same proportion. if the economy, in a theoretical setting had 100,000 bucks the top 1% got 100 bucks. If the economy grows to 1,000000 bucks then the the top 1% might have more money but the same proportion of the economy. One percent is one percent.

OKR: to adhere to your example, if the top 1% or top 10% were making a bigger percentage of the economy you would not be working within the boundaries of mathematics. 1% is the same proportion no matter how much money is involved.

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Jan 13, 2010, at 1:09 AM

okr: Hmmm if we are speaking in %s, then 1% of the wage earners is exactly the same now as it was 10 or 20 or more years ago. 1% is 1% no matter what they earn in dollars

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Jan 13, 2010, at 1:04 AM

MrXRay one thing you forgot to note is that one of the reasons, perhaps the major reason that the upper income groups are paying a higher share of taxes is because they are getting a larger share of the pie than ever before. Right?

So, I am asking you is it not also true that despite the larger proportionate share of taxes, the proportionate net wealth of the top 5% is larger than it has ever been?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jan 13, 2010, at 1:00 AM

I bet the top 50% of wage earners would LOVE socialism if it was a fair and equitable distribution of their income... THEN every percentile of income earners would pay an equal share of the taxes...... In socialism the top wage earners might pay LESS.

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Jan 13, 2010, at 12:41 AM

to put this into perspective, if you make over if you made over 62k in 2007 you were in the TOP 20% of wage earners. and if you made over 100K you are in the TOP 7% of wage earners. ALL Fed Politicians are in the top 5% wage earners.

SO tell me how capitalism is failing if the top 50% of wage earners, no, the top 5% pays for over 60% of the taxes. EXCEPT for democrat Congress people and appointees that cannot figure out their taxes, even if THEY sit ON the Tax policy writing committees.

You are angry at the wrong people. EVERY person is angry at anyone who makes more money than them and protective of those who make less..... ill apportioned feelings maybe?

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Jan 13, 2010, at 12:38 AM

also if you see that link it shows how the top 50%, top 10%, top 1% has been being charges more and more and more taxes since before 1999.

Exactly what do you want from the top 10% of our economy? Do you think that the bottom 50% just should NEVER pay for anything?

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Jan 13, 2010, at 12:25 AM


percent of taxes that is paid by each income level

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Jan 13, 2010, at 12:23 AM

Nanadot: Come on... you bash capitalism... so are you are a socialist, communist? what is your solution?

The top 1% people of wealth pays about 40.42% of the taxes in 2007. Top 5% pays 60.63%, To 10% pays 71.22%, Top 25% pays 86.59%, top 50% pays 97.11%

The BOTTOM 50% of our income levels pay less than 3% of taxes which supports all the business of the Fed Government and entitlement programs that the Federal Government spends money one.

Seems like capitalism works if the top 50% supports the bottom 50% right NOW without any further attempts at socialism

-- Posted by mrxray on Wed, Jan 13, 2010, at 12:22 AM

LOL News across....

again, you are confusing capitalism for what we actually have, politically influenced obstacles to capitalism. It is not reality to claim our system and all of its problems is the fault of capitalism when in fact it is the artificial influences that interfere with capitalism.

And ANY system, because it is reliant on man and their errors, is subject to corruption and abuse.... only ignorance blames capitalism instead of man. Man created the rules in which the housing market became artificially overinflated and then crashed all in the name of "all people regardless of their ACTUAL ability to pay" philosophy that started with Carter and perpetrated by Congress, primarily Dems/liberals. Man created the rules in which the health insurance companies operate through the corrupt process of special interest monies influencing politicians instead of politicians caring about the nation as a whole.

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Jan 12, 2010, at 10:08 PM


Which modern form of capitalism were you referring to? Keynesian or Neo-Classical?

Well...never mind...either way you have a boom and bust cycle...and that is one of the major problems...boom to bust. There is no way around it...the empirical evidence is there to see...every 5 to 6 years on average we experience a recession/depression. Sometimes the busts can be a permanent decline in living standards for most...the rich excluded of course. I believe that is what this recession/depression is and it is a a direct result of years of neo-classical economics...the preferred economic policies of conservatives.

Keynesian economics is designed to extend the boom to bust cycle with the boom and bust separated by a longer, stable period. However, the bust always ultimately occurs...sometimes with disastrous results. The bust is part of the nature of capitalism...it is an economic system that simply doesn't work and ultimately leaves large segments of the society with out the products and services they require in order to function in that society.

We need a new deal...we need a new plan...'cause your capitalism sure isn't working. Perhaps its time we take a look at Democratic Socialism...perhaps its time we cast away the old, failed ways of the past and remake our society in ways that will work. If socialism won't work then we can try something else...but doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results clearly is insanity.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jan 12, 2010, at 8:45 PM

Especially since, as I have more than a suspicion, that the 'bust cycles' are too often calculated by the $$$-powers to provide them with ever more extravagant windfall profits... but it must be that giant vacuum-sound I keep hearing ;>)

-- Posted by NanaDot on Tue, Jan 12, 2010, at 6:59 PM

SO you think that a "planned economy" where the government controls output, input, and resources to attempt to control the economy, would be exempt from political corruption or corruption that is inherent in human nature?

Really? Our politicians are capable and without corruption that would prevent them from corrupting ANY type of economy?

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Jan 12, 2010, at 8:13 PM

saying that capitalism is ONLY geared toward creating monopolies is a complete misunderstanding of capitalism.

The corruption of capitalism by outside influences such as special interest groups forcing bad policies and rules/regs mandated by the government is what allows the disruption and distortion of Capitalism. ANY system is subject to corruption by human, government, and special interest influence when that system has the rules that allow for that corruption.

In our case, our economy is MORE influenced by special interest monies and corrupt politicians than by any other factor and these create rules and regs that prevent an equitable function of capitalism. Market, planned and mixed economies ALL suffer from the human flaw. Personally, the planned economy, which relies solely on the Government to mandate what is made or provided and in what quantities and with what reimbursement does NOTHING to provide incentive for people to be innovative and take risks with their own money to start up new businesses because when someone else tells you what to do and when, you lack motivation that comes with personal investment.

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Jan 12, 2010, at 8:02 PM


My comment regarding every economic system having the same flaws applies to the fact that EACH economy is reliant upon the body that monitors and controls it. EVERY system has human error and human greed factors. Greed, or at least the desire to make as much money for ones self and family, is a function of human nation. Sometimes it is on purpose sometimes it is just a function of the desire to make the best of ones life.

I made no assumption that all economies function in the same manner only have the same manner of flaws. IN THEORY and theory alone, does there exist a perfect economy or perfectly planned economy.

The function of capitalism and its ups and downs is to rid the economy of bad or overinflated aspects. It should have eliminated the poorly run GMC and allowed the business to pick up in other members of the auto industry or at least a dramatic restructuring to include the elimination of the Union influence in the cost per unit that causes GM to be unable to compete adequately.

Even in the most 'scientifically' planned out economy, the planning is solely reliant on human input of data into the initial modeling and planning and that is inherently flawed.

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Jan 12, 2010, at 7:54 PM

H1n1: When I read the data from the CDC after the initial 6 1/2 months of the 'pandemic' the rate for deaths due to H1N1 virus in children was comparable to that of the regular flu. This has been 2-3 months ago that I read it. Since then the outbreaks and deaths have tapered off.

Yes this virus may be hitting different age groups differently than the regular flu viruses, I am not against caution... just find the situation strange

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Jan 12, 2010, at 7:47 PM


Human society is indeed complex. Economics are complex. I really don't know if we will ever arrive at a point where all possible resources are being used as efficiently and effectively as possible to meet all the demands of the People. I do know one thing...the economic system that leads to cyclical collapse is probably not the best available choice. We need a new deal...we deserve a new plan.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jan 12, 2010, at 6:50 PM

Medicare's chief actuary slams Obamacare's numbers.

"Richard Foster, the chief actuary for the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, reports that under his analysis national health spending will rise under the bills by $222 billion over the next 10 years. In other words, ObamaCare really does "bend the cost curve" -- UP.

"Even that estimate exists only on paper, as Mr. Foster has the honesty to admit. Because 'most of the coverage provisions would be in effect for only six of the 10 years of the budget period, the cost estimates shown in this memorandum do not represent a full 10-year cost for the proposed legislation,' he writes. The report is punctuated by phrases like 'UNREALISTIC' and 'DOUBTFUL,' and Mr. Foster adds that 'the scope and magnitude of these changes are such that few precedents exist for use in estimation.'

"That $222 billion is a net figure, even after accounting for the fact that most of the newly insured--18 million people--will be dumped into Medicaid, 'where provider payment rates are well below average.' And for the fact that ObamaCare is 'paid for' only in the sense that Medicare's payments to doctors are assumed in the bill to be cut by more than 20% this spring and even deeper after that, which will never happen in practice [in separate 2009 legislation Congress just raised them again; they've never been lowered].

"Mr. Foster adds that other planned Medicare cuts would damage doctors and hospitals * * * He says many providers will be forced to stop accepting patients who are insured by the government, as opposed to those who have private coverage 'with relatively attractive payment rates.' The resulting TWO-TIER health-care system 'should be considered plausible and even probable initially.'"

Read more at http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424...

-- Posted by AF Brat on Tue, Jan 12, 2010, at 5:28 PM

"Even in a Recovery, Some Jobs Won't Return"


-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jan 12, 2010, at 4:29 PM

could you tell me why there been nothing in the paper on the suspension of a teacer at the high school .

-- Posted by purpleroses on Tue, Jan 12, 2010, at 4:13 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
It was in the paper last week in the police briefs section.

"Iraq invasion in 2003 was illegitimate: Dutch probe"

"The 2003 US-led invasion of Iraq lacked legitimacy under international law, an independent commission probing Dutch political support for the still controversial action said Tuesday."


-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jan 12, 2010, at 3:55 PM

"Obama received $20 million from healthcare industry in 2008 campaign"


Who is this guy working for?

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jan 12, 2010, at 3:48 PM

"Americans split on Obama's first year, poll finds"


-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jan 12, 2010, at 3:43 PM


Actually capitalism has major flaws that cause it to fail every 5 to 6 years. This is why we experience a recession (actually we define both recession and depression the same in economics) every 5 or 6 years. This continual cycle of boom and bust is what I would define as a major characteristic of a failed economic system. In addition, capitalist booms fail to include all the members of the society. The poor are left out...and any economic system that isn't working for all the members of a society is failed economy.

However not all economic systems have the same boom/bust cycle capitalism does. Scientifically planned economies don't leave such things to chance...nor is a scientifically planned economy anti-democratic...as capitalism is. In a scientifically planned economy, decisions such as economic allocation, economic production methods, and economic equity are not decided by dollar vote as they are in capitalism. Thus important economic decisions are not made exclusively by the very richest members of a society...as they are in capitalism...but rather are they are made based upon the needs of all the members of a society and in a democratic fashion.

Your assumption that all economies function in the same manner and form is incorrect. So is your assumption that all economies suffer from the same failings...they don't. Is socialism the right thing for America? Probably...but as yet it is theory for it has not yet been tried in a democracy, and as an economist it is my belief that socialism can only work in a functioning, democratic society. It certainly won't work in nations with long histories of dictatorships.

One thing is for sure...capitalism isn't working now and its time to scrap this failed economic system and try something new, because the American People deserve a better system than one that is designed by the rich to benefit primarily only the rich.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jan 12, 2010, at 3:41 PM


If the data was presented by age category only, that in itself is inadequate/misleading, since anticipated generalities will be the result, i.e., seniors are more vulnerable.

A percentage of the world's population is more at risk due to a number of variables occurring across all age groups, not just childrren and seniors.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Jan 12, 2010, at 2:10 PM

Since many more children caught H1N1 than other age groups, more children died when you look at raw numbers. When you figure percentage of mortality from the numbers of people who actually caught H1N1, senior citizens and adults have a significantly higher risk of fatality than children. Someone recently analyzed the data by percentages, not by which group is more likely to be exposed to H1N1 and catch it. This isn't good news and makes it appear the CDC prevention information was misleading.

-- Posted by Cat13 on Tue, Jan 12, 2010, at 11:11 AM

Cat13: After H1N1 started this past year and then at about the 6 month mark, I checked with the CDC's website. I compared the numbers of deaths due to H1N1 to that of the regular flu season in the last two years.... VERY similar amounts of people died with each flu strain.

I am all for being cautious about new or old but mutated viruses but somehow I find the whole swine flu pandemic thing strange in the manner in which they reacted to a flu that has about the same mortality rates as regular flu. Now there were some differences like Pregnant women having more difficulty with H1N1 and the like but as for the mortality rate of this flu strain, I find it less than a crisis that demanded implementations of mandatory vaccines as happened in some areas.

NOTE: I have not checked with CDC recently so there might be updated data that would affect my opinion on this...

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Jan 12, 2010, at 6:38 AM

Nanadot: Somewhere I read documentation that Medicare denies MORE claims than most of the major health insurance companies. I will have to try to pull up that information and pull the link... probably can google search it if you are so motivated.

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Jan 12, 2010, at 6:32 AM

Newsacross, IF you have degrees in economics then you should understand that capitalism is NOT the failure in health care it is the artificial boundaries that politicians have set and rules/regs/reimbursements and the like that have prevented capitalism from functioning as it should. Just as has happened in areas, oh say like the whole housing debacle where the politicians tried to create a feel good program to coerce local banks into making bad loans or have their bank to bank interest rates jacked up and other penalties. THEN the rules or lack of rules that allowed the packaging and futures trading in these bad loans.

I love it when people blame capitalism when in fact it is not capitalism that has caused most of the problems. YES there are truly greedy people that play the system and find any and every loop hole that they can abuse. BUT, no other economic system is without the same flaws.

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Jan 12, 2010, at 6:30 AM


I wish they would just do something with this bill and get it over with so they can back to crafting a bill that socializes medicine in the USA...like the rest of the civilized World has...that way everyone will be covered equally with out exception.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jan 12, 2010, at 5:47 AM

Wizzer-I also wish that Senator McCaskill would have held out on her vote in order to get us folks in Missouri the same deal that Senator Nelson got for the folks in Nebraska, or that Senator Landreau got for the folks in Lousiana, rather than us folks in Missouri and the the folks in the other 47 states having to bear the burden for the folks in Nebraska and Lousiana who will unfairly get more benefit than we will. I hope the compromise bill will be stripped of all special favors so that everyone will benefit, or lose, equally, depending on how you view it.

-- Posted by Reader101 on Tue, Jan 12, 2010, at 2:15 AM

Do not read this link if you are looking forward to that crappy drive-through drink today. http://motherjones.com/blue-marble/2010/...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Jan 12, 2010, at 1:26 AM

Just a little change up. This is a poem I wrote tonight.

And what of girls in far off lands,

that return from work with bloodied hands?

Those poor young girls of meager means

who work all day at pant machines

then tear new holes in rich girls' jeans.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Jan 12, 2010, at 12:52 AM

what ever you personally witnessed in the accident on odell & morrow on 01/07/10 SCARP, lol, maybe you could be of help, since you know so much about what happened !!

-- Posted by gokinser11 on Tue, Jan 12, 2010, at 12:07 AM

Wizzer? :)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Jan 12, 2010, at 12:06 AM

well wizzer, this is one constitutant of Clair McCaskill's that is very glad that she voted for the healthcare plan.

-- Posted by movaldude on Mon, Jan 11, 2010, at 11:16 PM


62%...wow that is quite alot...can you please post the link to your source of that information so we, the readers, can check for accuracy and qualification as well as read the question used in the survey, have a look at the quantitative methods used to arrive at that figure,...as well as timeliness.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jan 11, 2010, at 7:41 PM

I'm wondering if Senator Claire McCaskill got the same kind of deal for Missourians as Senator Nelson got for Nebraska. I would also like to know if Senator Nelson's vote was bought. I would also like to know how Senator McCaskill could vote for a bill where 62% of her constituents don't want it. (Sounds like representative democracy to me.)

-- Posted by wizzer on Mon, Jan 11, 2010, at 7:10 PM

H1N1 (Swine flu) news flash:

Doing the numbers shows that while children are more likely to catch H1N1, the older you are the more likely you are to die from it. National medical advice has been backwards. Among those who catch this flu, it's the senior citizens who have the highest fatality rate with adults to age 64 having the next highest rate. However, there is no argument that people with pre-existing special health risks need the vaccine for obvious reasons. CDC advice has proven to be "BACKWARDS".

-- Posted by Cat13 on Mon, Jan 11, 2010, at 2:30 PM


Yeah...I can see how well that capitalism works...

Oh by the way thanks for the advice. I followed it retroactively...I already have a degree in economics...and I think I know a thing or two about captitalism and its two major forms as practiced in America.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jan 11, 2010, at 4:00 AM

newsacross... actually the purest form of capitalism would work where we would end up with a balance of part time/temp jobs and full time employment as the people who really need or want full time would start refusing the part time and the businesses would provide more full time jobs. it would swing back and forth until a happy medium happened and those willing to work part time would have jobs and those who were willing to hold back for full time employment would also have those jobs.

Dont be so pessimistic about capitalism. If you really looked into facts and data you would find capitalism is not the problem but the corrupted policies and programs and rules that prevent the free market from function on a truly supply/demand basis

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Jan 10, 2010, at 11:48 PM

Angry at Wall Street, aren't we all?

Here is how we can hit them back as "our" government won't do it for us.

Go debit, not credit on your purchases, and other tips. Also why these tips work. http://professorsmartass.blogspot.com/20...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jan 10, 2010, at 11:41 PM

You are welcome AFBrat. What I like about Frank Rich is that he sees through the smoke screen set up by the oligarchy. He also sees through the illusion of choice that is given to us by the hierarchy of the Democratic, and Republican parties.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jan 10, 2010, at 11:22 PM

Temp Jobs Becoming the Norm

I almost had to cry as I read the news in America today. A lot of employment specialists are saying that temp jobs are becoming the normal employment status of most American jobs and what they foresee as the long-term status of the average American job.

Some of the typical attributes of such jobs include such prized favorites as no benefits (no 401K, no insurance, no sick days, no vacation, ect), strict employment at will...which means they can let you go for good reason, bad reason, or...the standard practice...no reason at all, and of course lower wages. You can forget any perks or contracts or fair treatment by a boss. With temp work as the standard, if the boss doesn't want you there for any reason...even personal reasons like say for example he doesn't like the Church you attend or the fact that you are a single-parent, or the fact that you drive a Nissan instead of a Ford truck...or maybe he just doesn't like your color...all he need do is call the temp agency and tell them he wants somebody out there to replace you. He does not have to give them a reason nor does he even have to discuss it with them in any form or manner...other than to say he/she wants you replaced. You will never be told the reason why you have been replaced nor is there any severance pay or notice of any kind.

This is a sad state of affairs and contributes very little to the long term, gainful employment hopes of young people or anyone who has a family to support. However, it is capitalism in its purest form.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jan 10, 2010, at 8:18 PM

Oklahoma Reader -- thanks for the pointer to the Frank Rich article.

-- Posted by AF Brat on Sun, Jan 10, 2010, at 9:30 AM

Frank Rich comments about the pending investigation of the Wall Street melt down. Great article, especially for those of us who don't trust Tim Geithner, Robert Rubin, and assorted other collaborators. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/10/opinio...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jan 10, 2010, at 2:36 AM

Gosh, Cheetah, I hadn't noticed until you brought it to my attention!

:( So much for the holiday spirit.

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Jan 9, 2010, at 10:57 PM

What's the matter gokinser11, not getting the right attention on the actual story? What would u like to discuss? The location of your caps lock key maybe?

-- Posted by Scarpetta on Sat, Jan 9, 2010, at 9:09 PM

Hey Marple, you sound jealous.

-- Posted by Night Sky on Sat, Jan 9, 2010, at 7:58 PM

Oh, now the story changes, AFBrat? How about coming clean on a few other issues, then? You didn't say if you have children, if you had siblings, or what your father's occupation was, all of which would be significant to your success story. If the $3000 was actually $500, what else would you like to share in the interest of accuracy?

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Sat, Jan 9, 2010, at 5:53 PM


Glad to have brightened your day a bit! :). The snow boots were the kind that fit over your shoes. Of course with tromping through snow that deep, it had a tendency to come over the top and into your boots. I did, however, make it home with my shoes on, albeit cold and wet! And...just enough time to get dry and warm before dad came home from work and took me back out! HA! Lesson learned???? I think so!

-- Posted by nouveaublogger on Sat, Jan 9, 2010, at 4:17 PM


-- Posted by gokinser11 on Sat, Jan 9, 2010, at 3:55 PM

Notgvnasht, actually it was $500 in 1967. I adjusted for inflation to make it comparable to today. And, of course, Nana Dot, I had help -- from my spouse, from scholarships, from a college department head who quite literally "saved my future," and a host of others. And I had a lot of luck. Just like everyone else who succeeds.

The point of my original post, however, isn't about me but about the thousands (hundreds of thousands) of youngsters every year who are the first in their family to climb the ladder of achievement. Doing so largely, but not exclusively, by their own hard work and sacrifice.

It is wrong, as I think many realize, to put them in the same boat as those who gain the fruits of success the "old fashioned way" (remember the TV commercial) without that effort or sacrifice. But many in our society do just that. The unstated assumption, seen here, is that economic success MUST NOT have come from productivity but, to quote Ms. Marple, from "cheating someone else, including, possibly, their employer, or already have other financial advantages, such as an inheritance." That's just a false slander -- as I've tried to show.

I've seen the arrogance of "high" birth (even in America) and I've seen the assurance of performance-based success. They may look similar to some but they are NOT the same.

So we are back to my original point: "Income or net assets is a poor guide because plutocracy is a mental attitude not an account balance. Mere economic success isn't a good guide to those who have come to THINK and ACT like an American ... aristocracy."

-- Posted by AF Brat on Sat, Jan 9, 2010, at 3:53 PM

NB - thanks for the Goose Story suggestion. It's too bad all of humanity can't think and act in the same way.

And thanks for sharing your snowbank story. I did sort of laugh when you said you walked out of your boots as you played in the snow, but I can feel the cold! Like the delightful pain that Eric felt as his hands and feet thawed after his excursions to deliver the Des Moines Register. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Jan 9, 2010, at 1:06 PM

Oh, my. Mrxray...you do amaze, too.

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Sat, Jan 9, 2010, at 8:51 AM

LOLOLOL...AF Brat, you do amaze. "It is quite possible in America today to start with a new spouse, paid-off car, and $3000 of wedding gift cash..." Just how many people do you think start off with those advantages today? The ones who do are likely the offspring of parents far wealthier than mine were, and most of us likely don't have those parents.

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Fri, Jan 8, 2010, at 10:40 AM

I find this statement funny and really NOT related to the potential of a persons wealth or economic status. What you stated reflects MORE on the values that our society has and the emphasis, or lack there of, that our society places on marriage.

Most people today get married after knowing their spouse for short periods of time or at a very young age, right after high school or during and right after college. They are not planning their lives out. Reality is such that you COULD, if you planned for it have a car paid off OR if they planned smartly and the choose to get married they COULD start out with 3000 bucks from the wedding and no help from parents or grandparents and inheritances. NOT starting with the advantages you referred to is NOT an economic problem but a priority problem.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jan 9, 2010, at 2:51 AM

NB nice story. ND, as always, on the mark.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Jan 9, 2010, at 1:27 AM

"Oklahoma Reader posted: "The problem is that it has become more difficult today to accomplish what you did yesterday."

Nope. For example, after school I had one job offer rescinded because part of the firm's business had taken a dive (the part I was to work in) and they were retrenching. Bad economic times are not unique to the present moment. Repackage your skills and move on (it does help to be young, educated and flexible)." (quote from AF Brat)

Really AF Brat? I suppose that it is just leftist propaganda that the share of the national pie enjoyed by the lower class, and the middle class has been declining for years. And that the share of the rich has grown a little while the very rich have been making out like, well like bandits.

Spare us the details about how you learned to walk on water, with no help from anyone.

We should consider that the most of us, you included, are just nattering old geezers, and it doesn't make a whit of a difference what we think, or say. Something to think about when our own wind bloats our sails to the point we lose course, and sail pell mell into rough seas. Been there, done that.

A question: is this blog just twitter for the geriatric set?

Sense of humility restored yet?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Jan 9, 2010, at 1:14 AM

Anyone, ANYONE...who thinks they have done anything on their own, should read "The Goose Story"! Go ahead, google it and read it and THINK about it! And...possibly give a few long-awaited and neccessary thank-yous. I have always been humbled by this fantastic life-defining story.

-- Posted by nouveaublogger on Fri, Jan 8, 2010, at 11:46 PM

NanaDot: You misunderstood - I was agreeing with YOU and commenting on AFB's imagined halo.

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Fri, Jan 8, 2010, at 8:55 PM


Good Point!

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jan 8, 2010, at 8:54 PM

NanaDot, you said it best...how wonderful it is to be so wonderful. I'm truly blinded by light flashing off that halo.

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Fri, Jan 8, 2010, at 6:03 PM

"Stuck in middle on health reform

A sizeable number of those who would qualify for subsidies under congressional proposals could still find health care


Living in a nation that enjoys all the benefits of socialized medicine, I find it shocking to imagine what it must be like to live in a nation that has no socialized medicine and relies on an outdated, inefficient, costly, 20th Century method of health-care access that leaves millions of people still with out proper medical care access. The scary part is the event described in the Article I link to above will be occuring AFTER the so-called Health care bill passes.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jan 8, 2010, at 4:37 PM

I just want to say great job on the roads in the county.

For the amount of snow we have had and the winds and all the drifting, these guys have done a terrific job!

Does anyone know how long before the gravel roads get plowed? Some of those are impassable. I would like to know how they decide what order those are cleared.

-- Posted by litlmissme on Fri, Jan 8, 2010, at 4:34 PM

Oh my, we DO have a hard time accepting earned success, don't we?

Oklahoma reader posted "I also realize that you may have just been stating that hey, America is still a great country, and I am thankful that it provided me an opportunity for success."

Correct. I was talking about success stories related to me by others (the truth of which I can't vouch for). I included the word "I" only to demonstrate that in at least one case it really was true.

Oklahoma Reader posted: "The problem is that it has become more difficult today to accomplish what you did yesterday."

Nope. For example, after school I had one job offer rescinded because part of the firm's business had taken a dive (the part I was to work in) and they were retrenching. Bad economic times are not unique to the present moment. Repackage your skills and move on (it does help to be young, educated and flexible).

Miss Marple posted: "It has been my observation that most people who wind with a lot of money are either cheating someone else, including, possibly, their employer, or already have other financial advantages, such as an inheritance of land or money. Very, very few truly make it entirely on their own."

You have a limited circle of acquaintances. People of moderate wealth earned by their own efforts are everywhere (there is even a book about how pervasive they are, especially in smaller cities).

Nana Dot posted: "then you had the best that the American taxpayers could provide"

Huh? We paid for our food, clothing, and housing. The base housing built in the 50's was really crappy while the commissary and BX were beneath K-Mart's standards (with higher prices). The schools, public or parochial (paid for by us), were the same ones attended by everyone else. I did get to attend 10 schools in 12 years, though. We did get no-fee medical care (although I never saw a real pediatrician as a child). In the 1950's and 1960's low pay and frequent moves, was the standard. Great benefits! BTW, my father was a high school drop out who was drafted in WW II. He took 16 years of night classes to finish college a year before I did.

Miss Marple posted again: "did you have student loans to pay back or did your parents pay for that?"

Nope. I did it the old fashioned way. I had scholarships. And, once married, I made a deal with my wife, put me through graduate school and you can retire. She did -- 40 years ago.

-- Posted by AF Brat on Fri, Jan 8, 2010, at 3:59 PM

"U.S. troops, families face cuts in base services

More money for Afghan conflict, less available for non-war spending"


-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jan 8, 2010, at 2:45 PM

Brat, you proved my point with your reply. The Fortune 500 consists of a mere 500 companies, each with a CEO, and even if every single one of them made it on his/her own, and every single one of the companies had a new CEO every single year for the next 10 years, that would still be a mere 5,000 individuals who "made it" on their own. Against the U.S. population of 300 million, that is quite small potatoes.

Whether an individual is successful or not often depends on more than just the gifts they were given at the beginning - and a paid-for car and $3000 cash is a pretty good start for anyone.

It also depends on other factors - did you have children to feed, clothe, and educate? If you didn't, you are considerably ahead of those who do. Have you enjoyed good health and/or had good health insurance? If you had either of those, or both, you are again considerably ahead.

Were you able to go to college? That would have made a tremendous difference in your ability to get and hold down a job with good pay and good benefits. And if you did go to college, when you left school, did you have student loans to pay back or did your parents pay for that?

Did you have brothers and sisters? Or were you an only child, in which case you may have inherited all of your parents' accumulated wealth, if they had any. Those who had to share it with others would have had less, of course.

You see my point, I hope.

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Fri, Jan 8, 2010, at 1:46 PM

AF Brat: I am puzzled in regard to your response to my post.

I thought by the use of the words oligarch, and plutocrat I had very clearly indicated that I was targeting the very few, the rich, and powerful, whom I believe run this country. I reread my post, and no where do I see any thing that has anything to do with you as self described, nor others like you.

Is it that you have a sore spot from being rubbed the wrong way by some who may consider you rich, and powerful, the age old conflict between classes? Could it be that you were prompted by some sort of guilt about your success? If that is the case you misread me. I have my opinions about the relatively well off, but don't want to go there as I prefer to be a uniter rather than a divider.

If you are curious as to my opinion on that subject you could visit the last two chapters of Joe Bageants book, "Deer Hunting with Jesus". Although I am not as well fixed as you, even I felt a pang of guilt after reading it.

Please do not take this, nor my prior post as an attack on you, nor your niche. I also realize that you may have just been stating that hey, America is still a great country, and I am thankful that it provided me an opportunity for success. Nothing wrong with that. The problem is that it has become more difficult today to accomplish what you did yesterday. My hope is that such opportunity may be extended to more, not fewer as is the immediate situation.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Jan 8, 2010, at 12:47 PM

AFBrat posted: "THE question is "Are attitudes and assets inevitably connected."

My poinnt exactly. Any evidence to the contrary is anecdotal.

The real question is not the relationship between attitude and assets, but the relationship between attitude and the power that assets add to the equation (example - a seat in Congress).

Feeling punished for being "successful" results not so much from the threat of losing material gain, but rather from the threat to whatever level of power the individual perceives to control.

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Jan 8, 2010, at 12:40 PM

I find this very true...

"What some people mistake for the high cost of living is really the cost of high living." - Doug Larson

In my personal opinion, I find a common factor of rich and snotty vs. poor and nice...to be stress. Why? Those who *think* they have something to prove are stressed to prove it. Those who don't have anything to prove...don't care. Think of yourself, aren't you more snotty or hateful when you are stressed? Think of living your daily life like that.

Of course this is just my opinion.

-- Posted by Scarpetta on Fri, Jan 8, 2010, at 11:46 AM

Slater posted: "... are attitudes and assets mutually exclusive?"

Of course not. But that's a false question.

THE question is "Are attitudes and assets inevitably connected."

No, they are not. Examples: Ted Kennedy, John Corzine, Maria Cantwell. All of whom are REALLY wealthy (100 million dollar range).

People don't lose their core values just because they are economically successful (look around Marshall if you want). Something else has to be at work.

Miss. Marple, did you know that many, I believe most, CEO's of Fortune 500 companies were educated at state universities not at Harvard, Yale, or Washington University. And most of them came from economically modest homes.

-- Posted by AF Brat on Fri, Jan 8, 2010, at 11:12 AM

I see the temp there is a frigid +2F. It's a tad brisk around these parts, also (+30F currently).

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Jan 8, 2010, at 11:08 AM

AFBrat - your points, which I find interesting, raise this question:

Without being anecdotal, how are attitudes and assets mutually exclusive?

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Jan 8, 2010, at 10:47 AM

LOLOLOL...AF Brat, you do amaze. "It is quite possible in America today to start with a new spouse, paid-off car, and $3000 of wedding gift cash..." Just how many people do you think start off with those advantages today? The ones who do are likely the offspring of parents far wealthier than mine were, and most of us likely don't have those parents. It has been my observation that most people who wind with with a lot of money are either cheating someone else, including, possibly, their employer, or already have other financial advantages, such as an inheritance of land or money. Very, very few truly make it entirely on their own.

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Fri, Jan 8, 2010, at 10:40 AM

Oklahoma Reader posts: "It is no longer Democrats versus Republicans, the establishment is all the same. The truth is plutocrats against the rest of us."

Always has been.

But WHO is a "plutocrat?"

Income or net assets is a poor guide because plutocracy is a mental attitude not an account balance. Mere economic success isn't a good guide to those who have come to THINK and act like an American financial aristocracy.

It is quite possible in America today to start with a new spouse, paid-off car, and $3000 of wedding gift cash, get an education, live frugally and work hard for 40 years, start a sideline business, and wind up bumping the top of the estate tax exemption. The American dream can still be reached by the productive. I've done it. I have five close friends who've done it. I'll bet there are even more in little ol' Marshall who have done it. You don't see them because they don't flash their cash.

But they still aren't members of the "right" clubs because they aren't Plutocrats (and the real upper class knows it), they're just successful. In fact, they don't even have "real" (over 10 million in ready assets) wealth.

The merely successful resent being confused for one of the new American aristocracy and especially they resent being punished for being successful. If you had done all the right things that Society claims it wants, you too would resent now being derided for your achievements.

Much unproductive political stress is caused by confusing the success of ordinary folks with the "better than thou" attitude of those who would be America's aristocrats. There is a difference.

-- Posted by AF Brat on Fri, Jan 8, 2010, at 10:17 AM

mrxray, it is you who are mistaken. I did NOT say that the people we're talking about were not informed or that they did not take an oath. As many young people do, they ignored what they were told or never listened at all, and failed to appreciate their responsibility, so when they were called upon to perform their duty, they pleaded ignorance and wanted out.

This is not the product of my imagination - I watched as people were interviewed and heard them say it. "I never thought I'd actually have to go and fight - I only signed up for the benefits," or words to that effect, were not rare.

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Fri, Jan 8, 2010, at 6:05 AM

"Lawsuit: Goldman Sachs bonuses bigger than its earnings"


Fat-cats getting fatter off the backs of the taxpayers...have these capitalists no moral values what-so-ever?

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jan 8, 2010, at 4:20 AM

Miss Marple: You are sadly mistaken. ALL branches of the service, and all active, national guard and reserve take the exact same oath. They take the oath, or some version of it at least twice and you know up front that no matter if you are active, reserve or national guard that your life could be on the line. SORRY IF YOU do not know reality of the experience of MEPS and the entrance process of our military.

IF someone decides that they are taking the risk to enlist in the national guard, and they CHOOSE to ignore the risk that they might be called up, then they are ignoring the risk, NOT uneducated as to the risk

-- Posted by mrxray on Fri, Jan 8, 2010, at 2:12 AM

Timothy Geithner must be fired now. Read this, and I think you will agree.


-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Jan 8, 2010, at 1:37 AM

More allegations of Wall Street collusion on the part of Tmothy Geithner. Does anyone still think that he represents we the people?


-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Jan 8, 2010, at 1:29 AM

Here is some more of the same from the "Obushma" Administration. The EPA under the so called "new" administration continues to issue mining permits to blast mountain tops, and fill adjacent streams, and valleys with the resulting crud.


It is no longer Democrats versus Republicans, the establishment is all the same. The truth is plutocrats against the rest of us.

We all need to take a closer look at people like Ron Paul, and Dennis Kuchinich. They are the ones that are exciting the young people, and independents. We old party allegants need to get with the program.

I have gotten beyond my left bias to warm up to Ron Paul. Have any of you right leaners gotten beyond your traditional bias to warm up to Dennis Kuchinich? They both have many of the same fresh ideas, both are definitely populists.

We all need to change our way of thinking to save our country from the Demicans (the two major parties combined) who only carry out the orders of the oligarchy.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Jan 8, 2010, at 1:21 AM

ND - here's a slight twist on your post - an individual with a 4-year college education averages earning over a lifetime $2.4 million, which means every person who graduates from a 4-year college should be happy! :)


-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Jan 7, 2010, at 6:52 PM

BNB - if you can hold out til mid to late March, I'm your guy, as long as you're furnishing the shovel. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Jan 7, 2010, at 6:40 PM

KF - thanks for the information! Although I haven't had or used any Nordic Track equipment, a friend has one of those ski machines and he swears by it.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Jan 7, 2010, at 6:33 PM

Cosa Nostra - thanks very much for the link! At first glance it looks as if it has lots of good information.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Jan 7, 2010, at 6:30 PM

Slater I'll save you some money. You can come help me scoop snow and you won't need to buy a treadmill. :)

-- Posted by broke-n-busted on Thu, Jan 7, 2010, at 5:02 PM

As you know, I believe nationwide competition by insurers would improve health care while providing wider choice for patients and keeping government (need I mention the Christmas Day bomber?) away from 17% of our economy.

Now comes evidence that it certainly would.

"'Moving consumers into Medicare Part D plans [under which insurers compete nationally to be the consumer's choice] significantly reduced the per-dose price paid to manufacturers.' Average price cut 12%."


-- Posted by AF Brat on Thu, Jan 7, 2010, at 12:58 PM

Slater: We've got a ProMaster and it's great. We also have a Nordic Track ski machine, not the same as the treadmill, I know, but based on the quality of the skier, I'd bet the treadmill is at least that good or better. No experience with Reebok except for the shoes.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Thu, Jan 7, 2010, at 12:55 PM

Does anyone have any experience with either Reebok or NordicTrack treadmills?

I'm thinking about replacing the one I have with a Reebok model (R690), but I haven't come across any useful reviews.

The same with Nordic Track - no meaningful reviews.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Jan 7, 2010, at 12:35 PM

AFBrat - The article raises more questions than it answers, but for anyone who may be impacted, it's a good starting point to seek more comprehensive details.

Thanks for the link.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Jan 7, 2010, at 12:00 PM

Every day a new discovery in the Reid-Pelosi-Obama national health bill.

"The built-in 'marriage penalty' in both House and Senate healthcare bills has received scant attention. But for scores of low-income and middle-income couples, it could mean a hike of $2,000 or more in annual insurance premiums the moment they say 'I do.'


There is a better way. ALLOW (i.e., let lost business "force") health care insurers to compete in a single national market for all 300 million of us. All it will take is a two page bill that benefits consumers and causes the insurers to "make their profit on volume," not bloated, noncompetitive prices. Give company A the ability to steal business away from company B, and A will do so. If consumers need better information in order to induce them to choose company A, A will provide it. If they need better benefits, company A will provide them because A wants the consumers dollars (vs. company B).

-- Posted by AF Brat on Thu, Jan 7, 2010, at 9:54 AM

What am I hearing about a MHS teacher in trouble for harrassment? Said it was in the paper but must not be on-line....

-- Posted by freckles on Thu, Jan 7, 2010, at 9:44 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
It was an item in the police briefs in the Wednesday, Jan. 6, edition. It was not published online.

I received a letter in the mail YESTERDAY dated Dec 16, 2009 from Slater Alexander Elementary informing me that effective MONDAY the school will be implementing an extended school day. K-8 students will be letting out at 3:15 instead of 2:50. The letter indicated that during parent teacher conferences in October parents voted 2 to 1 for an extended day.

I attended the parent teacher conferences and signed a slip of paper that was to "gauge interest" in an "optional" after school program where your child could receive extra one on one help if they were having trouble in a certain area. No one AT ANY TIME indicated it would be a Monday - Friday permanently extended school day. Otherwise there is NO WAY I would have signed that slip of paper.

Am I alone in having a problem with this? I encourage anyone else in the district who is affected by this to contact the school board and the Missouri Department of Education.

-- Posted by OMG! on Thu, Jan 7, 2010, at 9:10 AM

Rep. Henry Waxman is fighting the gifts given to the pharmaceutical industry in the senate's health bill. http://news.firedoglake.com/2010/01/03/h...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Jan 7, 2010, at 1:11 AM

Ony 45% of Americans are satisfied with their work. Only 43% feel secure in their jobs.

A thought provoking article: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100105/ap_o...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Jan 7, 2010, at 12:49 AM

Top U.S. military intelligence officer in Afghanistan criticizes state of intelligence gathering. http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Jan 7, 2010, at 12:24 AM

lovingmarshall, call Orscheln Farm & Home store.

Earlier in the season they had wood for sale. I don't know if they still do but they may have a contact list of people who sell or their sales associates might know some names to give you.

-- Posted by Night Sky on Wed, Jan 6, 2010, at 4:57 PM

Be careful out there folks! It is already slick!

-- Posted by litlmissme on Wed, Jan 6, 2010, at 4:27 PM

From trees!

-- Posted by yomomma on Wed, Jan 6, 2010, at 3:50 PM

Anyone know where you can get firewood????

-- Posted by lovingmarshall on Wed, Jan 6, 2010, at 11:49 AM

Reminder: This is the week to back date your stock options.

(Taken from "Ironic Times") http://www.ironictimes.com/

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jan 6, 2010, at 2:34 AM

Here are a few words from Ron Paul, the man who proves that "honest republican" isn't always an oxymoron. On Dick "He'll shoot your eye out" Cheney: http://thinkprogress.org/2010/01/05/ron-...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Jan 6, 2010, at 2:28 AM

mrxray: I have to disagree with this statement of yours:

"They ALL STILL know that when you sign on the dotted line you are placing your life on the line and have to be willing to make that sacrifice."

During the first Gulf War, and the second, and even today there aree many, many National Guardsmen (and women) who are quite distressed to discover that they will be required to actually take part in the fight. More than one I saw interviewed on TV, especially during the first Gulf War, said, "Well, I just joined for the benefits...I didn't think I'd really have to fight." Or their parents said it for them - "She only joined so she could go to school," or some other, similar variant, as the parents shouldered the burden of caring for grandchildren whose parents were BOTH shipped off to war.

I am not saying that is the case with all members of the guard or the regular military, but it is not a stretch to say that there are still some who just don't understand what joining the National Guard is all about.

And I will say further that there are fewer and fewer young men and women who are willing to fight at all. Now that we don't have a draft, it's quite noticeable that there are no massive student demonstrations against the current war, as there were in the Vietnam era.

-- Posted by Miss Marple on Tue, Jan 5, 2010, at 7:37 PM

MrXray - where in my post did I say that I got my information from Al Gore or the UN? You're either not reading very closely, or you're letting your imagination run wild. I guess you think our environmental conditions are being caused solely by cow farts.

How are you feeling? Got a headache?

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Jan 5, 2010, at 6:33 PM

Nanadot: The number of deaths due to lack of insurance you quoted has to originate from a harvard 'study' that took a number of people at the start of the study and then determined who did not have insurance. THEN they found out how many died after the study time period was up. THEN they applied that number to a national scale. BUT they did NOT find out which of those people may have gotten insurance, private or government, AFTER the study started so there is no real way to say that lack of insurance caused their deaths.

Next, I can point to how other nations with different health care systems than what we have in the US can KILL people. All you have to do is review how many MORE people in the US have their cancer caught early and successfully treated and how many more per capita have cardiac angioplasty procedure and survive heart attacks. This is due to the fact that the US has more diagnostic tools, facilities and providers per capita than nations with more socialized health care. Look up a London Study completed in Aug 2008 and other sources.

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Jan 5, 2010, at 6:04 PM


I dont agree with your assessment of wanting to do away with a total voluntary military and install the draft. Nor do I with the conspiracy theory we invaded any nation because of oil. As for the rules and laws, we nave no business granting a terrorist the same legal rights as to that of our common citizen. There are national security implications when and if the case goes to court and the information that will be given to the 'defense' side and immediately passed onto the terror networks, just to name one issue I have.

if you were to get your way and just not pay the military members, then YOU and everyone else should immediately be required to perform their 2 years of service. The only way to make that work would be for ALL people to serve 3+ years, no matter of social standing, religious beliefs, age, gender, physical abilities and etc.

I am not sure why it is a big deal if someone enlists to help their self obtain a better education or training or college money. They ALL STILL know that when you sign on the dotted line you are placing your life on the line and have to be willing to make that sacrifice. THAT willingness has to be based on at least a small amount of love of nation

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Jan 5, 2010, at 6:00 PM

Slater: I am glad you can take information that is dispersed by a NON scientist like GORE who stands to make millions and billions of off green policies. I am also glad you can unquestioningly accept information from an organization like the UN/IPPC who started with a preconceived idea that MAN was the cause of global warming, then provides funding to a few scientists, THEN when they report their "findings" the majority of the scientists that review the data see the computer models functioning and make statements that they agree with some or all of this information UNTIL they study indepth the data that was used to make the computer models which, as it turned out, had major flaws and were in fact inaccurate when compared with reality after ten years after the predictions by the computer models were made.

My point is not to disagree with or oppose Global warming, but to publicly acknowledge that there is a LARGE body of scientist that oppose the global warming science and until that is resolved, PUBLICLLY, then I remain skeptical and think that another group of humans have schemed another scam to get rich off people who do not care enough to demand equal time to opposing science. After all, in REAL science, a hypothesis cannot become a theory until it has been challenged over and over by opposing viewpoints without trying to intimidate and deride opposing views, in this case on a world wide basis

I am all for conservation and we dont need science to prove that this is smart and the right thing to do. We also dont need policies like cap and tax to impose high fines on the poor and working people in the form of high increases in utility costs. All they need to do is provide equal opportunity for ANY person to attempt to discover and develop new renewable energy sources and technologies that would both decrease the reliance on petro based fuels AND provide cheap, efficient and easy to use energy.

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Jan 5, 2010, at 5:46 PM

OKR: Thanks for being the discussion police lol.... I did not state that the post was mine, I just FORGOT to put the link on it.... to be honest it was in an email I received and then cut and paste, THEN deleted the email....

WHO CARES... anyone with google can find out where it came from.

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Jan 5, 2010, at 5:37 PM


My son attends Northwest School and he said his classroom was cold the entire day yesterday. He indicated they used space heaters and he wore his coat most if not all of the day. Thanks for sharing your visit with Mr. Noah.

-- Posted by writerintraining on Tue, Jan 5, 2010, at 12:44 PM

Nice post Slater.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Jan 5, 2010, at 12:04 PM

Nana - as for salary - it all depends on what you consider meager. Compared to my civilian career, military is meager. news: as to your comment to take away the pay and benefits, the military is a job. Would you say the same thing about the private sector? Who would show up? Private sectors have unions to protect them, what do military personnel have? In private sector, you can walk out and quit anytime you want. Military can't do that. It is a committment. As for all the perks Nana's links referred to - nothing is as good as it sounds. Companies pay sign on bonuses all the time. Why should it be any different?

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Tue, Jan 5, 2010, at 11:43 AM

MrXray - I'll answer your second question first by using this analogy: Suppose one morning you wake up with a headache, but you ignore it, figuring it'll go away. Two weeks later your head still hurts, only now a little more intensely. Two weeks after that it's hurting so that you can barely concentrate. You decide to see the doctor, who susupects you have a brain tumor and puts you in the hospital, where an MRI confirms the diagnosis. You consent to a biopsy, which shows that the tumor is benign. Your doctor says you have two choices - you can have it removed and thereby cure your headache, or you can leave it be, but you'll continue having headaches and most likely it'll become cancerous. Do you believe the doctors are accurate in their assessment of your condition, or do you believe they've made errors and have misdiagnosed your problem? It's your choice to believe them or not and to act accordingly. You're not a surgeon, so chances are you'll be unable to heal thyself. I'm not a scientist, but if the consensus is saying we have a problem, I'll go with the majority; like voting, the majority rules. I'm not so naive that I discount the effects of all the crap being pumped into the atmosphere. That, none of us can ignore. The issue has been and continues to be, just how severe is the problem. It has to become a matter of trust at some point, and I trust science when the majority is saying we have a problem.

Now, to your first question which is an easy one. Any valid research is based on sound methodology. Obviously, the subject being examined has to be looked at from every aspect, all variables have to be identified and controlled, otherwise the result would be meaningless. Collecting climate data from only one or two sources would be foolish, since many elements contribute to climate variation and its relationship with the Earth's ecology. The disagreement between scientists is not that changes aren't occuring, but rather the rate of change and the impact of these changes.

I have no doubt that the Earth is in a serious predicament. "Global Warming?" I don't know if that's the proper label for it, but when we see the physical evidence of the polar icecaps melting, the glaciers around the world shrinking, these result from abnormal temperature rises in those areas. The icecaps aren't melting just for fun, to see how well polar bears know how to swim.

In my opinion it's a very serious problem, affecting future generations perhaps to the extent of the human race disappearing, and it's one that cannot be ignored, but that's the tendency, especially in this country where all solutions to every major problem have been reactionary rather than proactive. As I posted recently, informed sentiment is that global warming will get little attention from world leaders since their view is that no material gain would be the result from any meaningful and comprehensive action.

For all of our intelligence, humans are pretty stupid.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Jan 5, 2010, at 11:34 AM

Good morning AFBrat.

Firstly, I wasn't criticizing MrXray. I was criticizing his failure to abide by a policy of this blog which is that those who choose to post on the blog confine their post to their own thoughts. It has been stated editorially on several occasions, that rather than copy, and paste commentary found elsewhere by the posting party, provide a link to that comment with an explanatory header. There are many reasons why I for one believe that to be a good policy.

One of those is that I have so much respect for writing, and the effort given to it by the writer, that I believe writers should always get their due. Specifically, credit for their effort. Failure to give credit (other than anonymous sources, in which case it should be stated that it is anonymous) is plagiarism.

In regard to your wish that the answers to the questions in MrXray's purloined post be made available, many are. The post is an old one, written at the height of the "Birther" hysteria. Since then many of the questions posed have been answered. If you care to research the subject you may find some relief for your anxiety. For example's sake, I found this one in a moment:http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthers/occidental.asp Happy hunting.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Jan 5, 2010, at 11:32 AM

Write this down! I want all the Scum that break the Law be given their day in Court.I don't care who they are, or what Party they belong to! They don't impress me in any way. They are our Employees,nothing else! We are the Boss, unless we lose our heads and worship these A-- H----! We don't actually know who we put in Office anymore, but we can **** sure Prosecute them if they break the law, or even walk around the edges! We can fire them if we have any Brains?? Don't ask me stupid questions Go to them with your silly remarks. Tell them how you feel!!

-- Posted by Jo on Tue, Jan 5, 2010, at 10:57 AM

Oklahoma Reader posted: "I am referencing your looong piece on 'Mr. Obama, I mean President Obama, sir'" while criticizing mrxray.

Good questions, though. Don't you wish we had transparency (i.e., answers) regarding them?

-- Posted by AF Brat on Tue, Jan 5, 2010, at 10:26 AM

Mr. XRay why don't you just place your own thoughts on this blog instead of putting other's writings here. It is the policy of this blog to provide a link, and accredit other's material. At the moment you stand guilty of plagiarism, which does not help your credibility.

I am referencing your looong piece on "Mr. Obama, I mean President Obama, sir".

Next time please give credit to the author, and provide a link, like this: From the "Soda Head" blog, an amusing take on President Obama's failure to release records.


Thank you.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Jan 5, 2010, at 10:15 AM

news said: "take away all the cushy benefits that spouse derives from us, the taxpayers, and you may never see and end to that person's screaming at the top of his/her lungs about it." After 20+ years I'm still waiting for these cushy benefits you talk about. You got your college education from the taxpayers. I stayed in one spot, raised our family, and had a career (which I did not get from taxpayer anything) so that we could have a comfortable retirement as opposed to the meager pay from military. Plus, my spouse has never shot anyone in his job. You seem to research everything but you missed on this one.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Tue, Jan 5, 2010, at 9:23 AM

news: these were your words: "I guess its ok with you if we are warmongers." I took "we" to mean Americans which would include the military and "Finally, regarding your thanking me and other vets for our service...you are welcome..but really mate, I joined up for the benefits...not because I had some buring desire to kill brown skinned people." I don't know of anyone who joined for that reason.

Nana: as to your comments, just too much ignorance in that for me to waste time responding.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Tue, Jan 5, 2010, at 9:00 AM

I spoke this morning with Marshall schools Superintendent Craig Noah. He said the boiler problem at Northwest Elementary School did not affect classrooms but did affect the center part of the building where the principal's office, counselor's office, etc. are located. That problem was fixed Friday, he said. The boiler at Saline County Career Center experienced problems early Monday morning but was fixed shortly after noon, he said.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Tue, Jan 5, 2010, at 8:59 AM

newsacross.....what are you talking about? I did not mention anything about our entry into WWI or WWII.... think you are confused... JUST like you are confused about anyone calling you names...

AS I SAID BEFORE: No one called you names we merely pointed out that YOU are condescending and arrogant in your expression of YOUR OPINIONS and when anyone says different opinions you cannot handle it and resort to subtle put downs and etc.

SORRY you are sensitive to being challenged

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Jan 5, 2010, at 5:16 AM


If your mind is made up about global warming I have ONE question. Over the time period that they have been recording Temps around the world WHY do they not take into account the fact that many of the data collection sites have changed over time and these changes have skewed the data, like TEMP readings. What I mean is some of the data collection sites have changed from forests to pastures to rural communities to cities surrounded by asphalt and concrete. YET they collect the temp readings simply as a temp and do NOT account for the immediate environmental changes that would cause the temps to gradually increase as more stuff surrounded them, such as the asphalt and concrete?

I guess I have a second question. How do YOU justify the scientists that dispute the global warming scientist and constantly dispute, with logic and science, their data and computer modeling?

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Jan 5, 2010, at 5:12 AM

Ah, sorry to bother you Mr. Obama, Sir. . ...

Excuse me Mr. Obama, I mean President Obama, Sir. Um . . I know you're busy, and important and stuff. I mean, running the country is very important and -- ah -- I hate to bother you, Sir. I will only take a minute. Ok, Sir?

See, I have these missing pieces that are holding me up, and I was wondering, Sir, if you could take time out of your busy schedule and help me out. You know, no big deal, just some loose ends and things.

Hey, you have a nice place here! The wife sees houses like this on TV all the time and says, boy, she wishes she had digs like this, you know? Is that painting real? Really? Wow!

I saw something like that in a museum once.

Oh, sorry Sir. I didn't mean to get off the track.

So if you could just help me out a minute and give me some details, I will get right out of your way. I want to close this case and maybe take the wife to Coney Island or something. Ever been to Coney Island Sir? No? I didn't think so...

Well, listen, anyway, I can't seem to get some information I need to wrap this up. These things seem to either be "Not released" or "Not available." I'm sure it's just an oversight or glitch or something, so if you could you tell me where these things are I have them written down here somewhere -- oh wait. I'll just read it to you.

Could you please help me find these things, Sir?

1. Occidental College records -- Not released

2. Columbia College records -- Not released

3. Columbia Thesis paper -- "Not available"

4. Harvard College records -- Not released

5. Selective Service Registration -- Not released

6. Medical records -- Not released

7. Illinois State Senate schedule -- Not available

8. Your Illinois State Senate records -- Not available

9. Law practice client list -- Not released

10. Certified Copy of original Birth certificate -- Not released

11. Embossed, signed paper Certification of Live Birth -- Not released

12. Record of your baptism -- Not available

13. Why your wife, Michelle, can no longer practice law as an attorney? (Insurance Fraud?_

14. Why your wife has 22 assistants, when other First Ladies had one?

15. Why were you getting "foreign student aid" as a college student?

16. Which countries "passport" did you have when you visited Pakistan in 1981?

Oh and one more thing Mr. President, I can't seem to find any articles you published as editor of the Harvard Law Review, or as a Professor at the University of Chicago. Can you explain that to me, Sir?

Oh, but hey -- listen! I know you're busy! If this is too much for you right now -- I mean -- tell you what. I'll come back tomorrow. Give you some time to get these things together, you know? I mean, I know you're busy. I'll just let myself out. I'll be back tomorrow. And the day after. . ...

What's that Mr. President? Who wants to know these things?

We the People of the United States of America ! You know, the ones that vote.

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Jan 5, 2010, at 5:05 AM


You seem be attempting to justify our torturing POWs and others based upon a criminal act of the other side.

Are you saying 2 wrongs = 1 right?

I know it doesn't work that mathmatically (-1 + -1 does not = 2...it equals -2)

In addition, most of us have been taught that 2 wrongs do not equal a right...are you implying that we have been taught wrong?

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jan 5, 2010, at 4:38 AM


Obama may very well be in violation of the same laws and in such a case, with overwhelming evidence, I for one would be pushing for his impeachment and conviction. However to date the evidence of a violation of Federal Acts has not manifested itself. However, we certainly should hold Obama to the same standards we should hold Bush and any other citizen to. If he and Bush have broken the law, then they should both suffer the consequences.

Oh sorry about the typo in my previous comment...I am the typo king lol.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jan 5, 2010, at 4:20 AM


I don't know if Bush is guilty of war crimes or not.

I do know he has admited pubically and on film to activities that clearly seem to violate Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 118 which prohibits violations of the Geneva Conventions specifically in relation to torture and the use of torture. In addition, he has made multiple admissions to activities which seem to violate Title 50, Chapter 36 of Federal Acts (FISA violations). These are very serious laws with very serious consequences for offenders.

As to his guilt...well that is up to a jury. He certainly has a right to his day in court...and so do the People of the United States.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jan 5, 2010, at 4:15 AM

I am wondering when idiots calling for the prosecution of Bush will start calling for the war crime prosecution of Obama.... I mean it is HIS admin/Janet N. that FAILED and then lied and said the system worked....

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Jan 5, 2010, at 3:40 AM


I agree 100%. We send folks to prison for a lot less than what these criminals in the Bush Administration did everyday...yet these Bush Adminstration criminals walk free. And one has to wonder...is that what Obama calls justice??? Is this what he meant by change?

I am voting either Green Party or Socialist Party this year and in 2012. I will not vote Republican or Democrat until I see some decent behavior from either...and it looks to me like they are really the same bunch of crooks.

We need a New Deal in America...and we need it now!!

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Jan 5, 2010, at 1:06 AM

Right on

Nanadot: i'm still waiting for them too arrest and Charge Bush,Cheney,Rumsfeld,all the **** War Criminals! They would do that, i would feel better about the Promise of Change. Maybe give us a bail-out, with Single Payer! I must be dreamin again,ha!

-- Posted by Jo on Tue, Jan 5, 2010, at 12:10 AM


Thanks for saying that mate but really no apologies necessary. It is my belief that only through discussion can we Americans ever arrive at solutions that will work...we all have something to contribute...even if some of my ideas sound a little crazy sometimes lol.

It seems to me that we have a lot of everyday heros in America. Certainly everyone of our Soldiers are heros...well except that one that went crazy down there in Texas and killed those folks...but the rest are heros to be sure, and I include all our military and their families in my prayers everyday.

There are other everyday heros too. Our working class families who are the backbone of our Nation should never be forgotten...yet they are often left behind. These are the folks that build our cars, drive our trucks, police our streets, build our homes, cook and serve our food and drinks in restaurants, plumb our homes, and make sure we have energy to run everything from our cars to our washing machines. These hard working Americans are usually the first to suffer in hard economic times and the last to experience economic recovery. Yet they never falter. They never give up. Its our working class heros that make America a truly great Nation.

So while its important to keep our soldiers in our hearts and minds, I try to keep those other everyday heros in mind too...and a thanks to all those good folks for all that they endure and all that they do for us.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jan 4, 2010, at 11:37 PM

News, my apoligies for rushing to judgement with you and your blog, which is so unlike me. However, no excuses!!! Just an apology. Anyone who served our country in whatever capacity should expect and be given kudos! Thank you for your service.

-- Posted by nouveaublogger on Mon, Jan 4, 2010, at 11:15 PM


Only a loving Mom could get away with selling their kid's '38 Chevy...lol.

I think its important to collect stories in life. I prefer funny stories with a subtle moral lesson. Its kind of like watching the Andy Griffith show...the charactors and stories were funny but there was always a postitive moral lesson behind every episode. I still watch that show...on you tube...'cause they don't show those reruns in Australia.

My Dad has a lot of stories like that too. I grew up laughing at my Dad's stories...and like the Andy Griffith show, Dad's stories always had a subltle moral lesson to them...although sometimes we had to dig deep to get them. Dad is still collecting stories though he is getting pretty old now...and it seems the older he gets, the funnier his stories become.

I think everyone should collect funny stories from real experiences in their life and should share those stories with young people. I believe that is one of the ways we pass on those things that help us cope in difficult and stressful times and help remind us that we are human beings...each and everyone of us.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jan 4, 2010, at 10:32 PM

News, thanks for sharing your memories. Hearing yours brought back a few of my own.

I had a huge collection of the coasters made by the brewers, but one trip home to pick up my "war chest" I learned that my mother had given it away. She also sold my '38 Chevy 5-window coupe and my shotguns! :(

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Jan 4, 2010, at 10:11 PM

News - That's funny. Thank you for sharing that with us.

-- Posted by broke-n-busted on Mon, Jan 4, 2010, at 10:02 PM


It sounds like you had a pretty good time there Slater. I too liked the Germans for the most part but I know what you mean about some of them still admiring Hitler.

We had a fellow in my platoon that, even though he spoke with a perfect midwestern American accent, was a German...born and raised in Munich. He took me and a few friends to Munich once to show us around...by the way, he was the only one of us with a German drivers license and a car lol...and we met his Grandfather...who had the Nazi flag mounted on his wall in his livingroom. His Grandfather kicked us out of the house when he learned we were Americans...my friend explained that his Grandfather hated Americans because he had been a loyal NAZI during WW2 and felt we Americans should have been siding with the Germans against the Russians (who were in fact our close allies at the time). I was shocked that anyone would still be a NAZI...but there he was. The last thing I saw of him was him on his porch yelling at us in German as we pulled out and left lol. All in all though, I had to laugh about it at the time because the whole situation was just so ridiculous.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jan 4, 2010, at 9:51 PM

That Russian trip sounds like it must've been fun and a good learning experience.

My experience in Paris was like yours. I left after two days, thinking the French people were the rudest on the planet.

I went to Holland, Switzerland, and Denmark and enjoyed those trips very much. Copenhagen was, for me, a most interesting and enjoyable place to visit. I had some good friends in Nurenburg and spent quite a bit of time there. I had a real experience in a club there once when I engaged a woman in conversation and she turned out to be a Hitler lover. It was interesting to hear her talk, but there wasn't much I could contribute, so I moved on after a while. :)

By and large, the German people were very friendly and very curious about life in the US.

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Jan 4, 2010, at 9:22 PM


The media and the Goverment have spent a lot of time trying to convince us that Moslems hate Christians, Jews, and especially Americans and that is the reason for the terrorism...its not...but there are many in power that would like us to believe that. In fact, the terrorism is rooted in political problems in the Mid East.

As to the Brits approach in Northern Ireland, the Brits, after years of turmoil finally sat down with the Irish Terrorists and ssked them what they wanted. They then negotiated a peace which has lasted ever since. The IRA gave up their guns and so did the Protestant Irish (decendents of the Scots who kicked the Irish out of their homes in Northern Ireland and stole their lands).

Bush once told us that the Arabs/Moslems "hate us for our freedom." That was obsured (who does not love freedom?), and I think he didn't want us to know what the Arabs/Moslems really wanted.

Sometime around 2003 or 2004 Bin Ladin announced that they had 6 goals. 1.) they want Jeruselem to be declared an independent city-state (independent city) to be ruled democratically by the residents of that city. 2.) they want the aparthied in the Palestinaian territories to stop. 3.) they want an independent Palestinian Nation. 4.) they want all Israeli forces to be withdrawn to Israel and within Israel's borders. 5.) they want all citizens of Israel to be treated as equals under the law in Israel..including Arab Israelis. 6.) They want the tunnelling the Israelis are doing under the Dome of the Rock...one of the holiest places to Moslems in the World...to stop. If we follow the British model, we could end the terrorism and the violence if we sit down and negotiate these things with them, and it would cost far, far less in both dollars and human life.

Much like the Brits once were, we are bullheaded and refuse to negotiate with the Arab terrorists. That serves us no better than the British were served by their bullheadedness. In the end the Brits finally sat down and negotiated with the terrorists and it worked. Now there is lasting peace in Northern Ireland and everyone is happier. Most of all...all the terrorism and violence stopped. Perhaps we should try the British model...cause our current methods sure don't seem to be getting the job done.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jan 4, 2010, at 9:19 PM


Yes the German communter train system is very nice. The Aussies also have a pretty incredible train system as well though a lot of the Aussies complain about it. I travelled alot while I was stationed in Germany...I even travelled to Russia for a week once on a special Army Serviceman's Tourist plan. We had to get special clearance from the Russians to do it but really all it amounted to was that they wanted to know who we were, when and where we would be traveling to, and we were forbiddent to wear our uniforms while we were there. That all seemed pretty reasonable to me. I had a great time in Moscow seeing the sights and drinking Russian vodka and Russian cognac with the Russian civilians at some of the pubs. I was amazed by how inexpensive everything was in Russia. In fact, I remember a person could travel all day on the Moscow commuter train for the equivalent of 5 American cents per day. Food was cheap, drinks were inexpensive, and our hotel rooms cost us practically nothing compared to other European hotels I had visited.

I also traveled to some other countries while I was there too. I didn't care much for Paris though. The sites there were interesting but the Parishians at that time really hated American GI's...needless to say, I didn't return to Paris after my one trip there.

Most of all I loved travelling to Italy. I had to safeguard my wallet all the time from pick pockets in Rome and Milan...but I had a great time and loved the Italian people who are very kind to us Americans and who made me feel very welcome there.

All in all my service was a very rewarding experience though I did use to worry a lot about a potential Soviet attack on Germany...for obvious reasons.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jan 4, 2010, at 9:01 PM

News you might be rather surprised to hear me say I don't have a problem with socializing health care. It sounds like it can be a viable solution. And I will credit you in large part with leading me toward that understanding. But I do have a big problem with any program that is set up where it is just another means for big drug companies and other big institutions to further strip what wealth the middle class has left to better themselves with little effect on those it was meant for and that is what, it looks to me like, we will be getting.

I will also admit my ignorance regarding the UK's approach to Northern Ireland but I realize that things have been nice and quite that direction for several years. Perhaps you can enlighten me as to what they did. Can their approach be applied towards people that want to kill others because they happen to categorize them as an infidel?

-- Posted by broke-n-busted on Mon, Jan 4, 2010, at 9:01 PM

A year or two ago I learned that apparently the 10th Engineers was renamed or merged or phased out - don't know which, and I don't remember about the post name. I lost contact with everyone I knew from that time and was hoping to maybe try and track down a few of them through the records department in St. Louis, but even that failed.

Like you, I enjoyed my time there, and like you, I was more than ready to get shed of the Army Green shade #44.

I'm a train nut and I loved those trains over there!

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Jan 4, 2010, at 8:32 PM


There was only one battalion at Emery Kassern...the 3rd Supply and Transport Battalion. There were no engineering battalions stationed there nor any other battalions beside the 3rd Battalion. However, they may have been at Lathrope Barracks which was also in Wurzberg.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jan 4, 2010, at 8:22 PM


I agree both are important subjects and need to be dealt with.

My I suggest the following:

1.) Socialize health-care-access

2.) Use the successful British model of dealing with terrorists in Northen Ireland where peace and freedom has reigned ever since they took a constructive approach.

How about you mate? What do you suggest we do?

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jan 4, 2010, at 8:16 PM

True, it isn't any of my business, but I didn't ask just to be nosy.

Interesting about your being stationed in Wurzburg. Would you remember if the 10th Engineer Battalion was still there during your time?

I was in A Company of the 10th Engineers and stationed in Schweinfurt. Headquarters company was located in Wurzburg.

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Jan 4, 2010, at 8:15 PM

Nanadot should we ignore the loss of life due to outside attacks until it becomes more than 45,000 people per year therefore making it more important? Of course not. I lost a very good friend last year because he didn't have health insurance. Not a day goes by that I don't think of this friend and the fact that a $4 per month prescription would probably have saved his life but I don't think we can totally ignore being blatantly attacked by people with complete contempt for our existence either. The two are separate subjects and they both need a resolution. Where we really start to bleed is that we are left with our government to resolve both of these issues and they are not proving themselves up to the task. Indeed the government we have now is only capable of looking after themselves and bellying up to the lobbyist bar for another round of elixir. You can see anyone of several posts by OKR on that topic and he is dead on this subject.

-- Posted by broke-n-busted on Mon, Jan 4, 2010, at 8:03 PM


Well Slater...not that its any of you business...but..

I joined up when I was 17 in feb 1974...about a year before the war in Vietnam finally ended. I served as a Cold warrior in the USA Army. My MOS was 64C...truck driver. I served with B Company, 3rd Supply and Transport Battalian at Emery Kassern, Wurzberg, Germany.

By the way, an interesting note, according to our command at that time, our life expectancy in the case of a Soviet attack in Germany was 3 hours...which command said was just long enough to get in reinforcements and that the likelihood of our survival was not good.

Anyway, I had a great time, drank a lot of German beer, enjoyed the company of many German women, and made a lot of good friends while I was there.

I had a 2 year enlistment (during periods of draft the Army offers 2 year enlistments since the draft is for only 2 years...although the draft had ended about 6 months before but the 2 year enlistment was still being offered). I was honorably discharged after the completion of my enlistment and returned home to Chicago. I hold a marksman medal with the M16, a sharpshooter medal for grenade, and the National service ribbon. I earned the GI Bill for college while I was serving, and I learned that military service was not something I wanted to do for the rest of my life but rather I preferred peace and education instead.

Why do you ask? Did you want to make something of my service to our Country?

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jan 4, 2010, at 7:59 PM

I agree 100% with news. This whole idea that individual criminal actions can make a whole country accountable is ludicrous. One must ask why we never invaded Sicily as the mafia came from there or Russia because the Russian mafia has a huge influence on crime in this country. How about invading Columbia for all of the drugs their cartels have swamped our country with? And of course if we go back to the main focus which is Abdulmutallab and his exploding underwear, one must ask why we have not invaded his country of origin - Nigeria? How about invading Britain, after all Abdulmutallab lived there for over 3 years? (maybe Britain's nuclear arsenal and huge navy may make that quite difficult) However if we continue to blame countries for the actions of their individuals then eternal war will be our future and forget any health care you wont be able to afford it.

However if we decide that sanity should rule us and we really need to invade a country, how about Israel? After all they have never been held accountable for their attack on the USS Liberty in 1967 USS Liberty Memorial site - http://www.gtr5.com/. The USS Liberty was flying the US flag and was clearly a US navy ship when it was attacked by Israel in International waters.

So either you can continue to believe and support policies that have so far been futile (oh by the way where is Bin Laden?) or you can question the illogic of pursing criminals with the military and demand that our government stop these actions and do the right thing.

-- Posted by Divergent Thinker on Mon, Jan 4, 2010, at 7:41 PM

News, I'm interested in knowing a little about your military service - age upon entering, length of service, where stationed, your duties, and what you learned about yourself.

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Jan 4, 2010, at 7:37 PM

News your take on history is rather colorful. As I recall there were these people that high-jacked a couple of jets and flew them into a couple of skyscrapers in New York. Now I wasn't there and I can't tell you if they had brown skin or not but it was reported in even the most liberal of newspapers that there were nearly 3000 people (of various skin colors) murdered that day. Shortly there after a group that called themselves al Queda stated publicly that they did it. Indeed they sent a film for the world to see saying they did it. The guy was from Saudi Arabia - the star of the film. He and his band were known to be in Afghanistan - they had been there for years. Bill Clinton sent a couple of cruise missiles their direction one day years ago. In charge of Afghanistan at the time was a wonderful band of democratic leaders called the Taliban. The US told the Taliban that they really should consider letting us have the people that attacked us. They rather publicly laughed at us and said no. We attacked them. The majority of the world did not have a problem with this action. It is not the people of Afghanistan that we are attacking. It is the thugs that are running the country and the uninvited guests from Saudi Arabia, Yemen, etc that have taken over the lives of the innocent people that just want to live their meager lives in peace that we are fighting. That would be the idealistic view of the people that are fighting because of what they believe is right and wrong not because they thought they would get some good benefits out of the trip.

-- Posted by broke-n-busted on Mon, Jan 4, 2010, at 7:22 PM

Air Force Wife is amazed that the Yemen Government dismisses exagerations regarding Yemen...exagerations they feel were brought on because of the criminal act of one National of a country that is not even Yemen.

My posting that article does not mean I necessarily agree with them but rather that I thought it only fair that we be aware of their view of this incident. As has often been said, there are 2 sides to every coin...and certainly more than one side to an argument.

I read recently of a bank robbery in the USA where the life of the teller was threatened...an American teller!! The person who did it had recently been to Alabama and learned to rob banks from another person while there. Shall we now invade Alabama or threaten political and economic sanctions on Alabama in our "War on Bank robbers?" After all, we have a right to make sure our people are safe from bank robbers.

...or do you think perhaps the police can handle that situation? After all, criminal matters are generally dealt with very effectively by our men and women in law enforcement...or don't you support our men and women in blue?

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jan 4, 2010, at 6:45 PM


You make some excellent points in your comment.

Gee I wonder who would be screaming the loudest in this blog if the United States Government announced that all military pay and benefits would be reduced to 0 from here on out?

...and I wonder who would be running down to the recruiters office to join up if they did that?

Its pretty easy for some military spouses to cry because some of us who have served admit that we were primarily motivated to join because of the pay and benefits...and not out of some strange and peculiar desire to kill brown-skinned people who populate nations that have never attacked us and are no threat to our national security. But take away all the cushy benefits that spouse derives from us, the taxpayers, and you may never see and end to that person's screaming at the top of his/her lungs about it.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jan 4, 2010, at 6:26 PM


Uh you seem to be a bit confused regarding our entry into WW2.

We were attacked by Japan and the next day Germany declared war on the United States. Those were the only reasons for our entry into WW2 according our own Government and in accordance with Internationally accepted rules of military engagement.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jan 4, 2010, at 5:36 PM

Ya know folks...one of the ways you create an all volunteer army is by offering potential recruits good pay and benefits. I don't fault any employee...be he/she an employee of a private company or be he/she an employee of our government for accepting good pay and benefits as long as that private individual does the job he/she agreed to do. Such is the case with military service as well...at least it is if we want an all volunteer military. I wonder how many who are currently serving are willing to forgo all pay and benefits? It would be interesting to find out. I bet not one of them would agree to that...

Certainly we should all support our Constitution and our Nation. After all, its our Constitution that defines our Nation, and certainly we all have an obligation to defend our Nation against all enemies. However how do we define "enemy?" Do we define an enemy as another nation that is attacking our Country? I would certainly say yes. Do we define an enemy as a soverign nation who does not have our freedoms and is not attacking us? No I don't think that would make them our enemy would it? Neither Iraq nor Afganistan ever attacked the United States. We were allegedly attacked by some lose organization of individual's we call "Al Queda" (although who actually attacked us on 9/11 is still yet to be determined as I have seen no direct, concrete evidence to support the Republican claim that Al Queda did. I am still waiting for the "smoking gun" and an explanation that does not require the violation of the laws of physics). However, none of the alleged 9/11 suspects were from Afganistan or Iraq nor is there any evidence at all that either of these Nation's governments had foreknowledge of the attacks or involvement in the planning or in the carrying out of these attacks. I find it interesting that so many folks seem to forget those important facts. In fact, the alleged 9/11 suspects were mostly from Saudi Arabia and a few from Egypt and Yemmen. So why aren't we bombing Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Yemmen? Perhaps it has something to do with oil and money. Anyway, I believe the wars in Afganistan and Iraq are immoral and probably violate international law. I know these wars certainly violate my sense of morality. I hope our President and our Congress will do the right thing and stop these immoral wars, bring our kids back home, and start taking a constructive approach to dealing with terrorism (as the Brits did successfully in Northern Ireland).

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jan 4, 2010, at 5:27 PM

nouveaublogger asks "what right did he have to accuse all of our government of self-serving purposes for representing our country(i.e. being in the top 1% to 5% salary-wise, plus so-called bribes of which I am not disputing)"

You will find that right in the First Ammendment to our Constitution...its call free speech...you know, as in "freedom."

As to an individual doing what is right for the individual verses a government official accepting "campaign contributions" in return for their vote on bills from rich corporations that are owned primarily by the folks in the top 1% of our tax bracket...well it seems to me that such a politician who was elected to do what the People want...not to benefit him or herself...is completely different from an individual accepting and doing a job because it includes good benefits. AS a soldier I did my duty but I was never elected to represent the People in Congress. I just agreed to defend my country in return for pay and benefits.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jan 4, 2010, at 4:30 PM

Air Force Wife

I never referred to our military as warmongers.

I did how ever point out that a lot of our politicians are warmongers...on both sides of the asile. The military does not set foreign policy or declare war. They are soldiers and they follow orders. I certainly support our boys in Afganistan and I believe the best way to support them is brining them home and out of harms way in Afganistan. As to Afgans wanting freedom...that is great...let's hope they achieve their goals...but its not our place to dictate what freedom is to them at the point of a gun. We are not the World's Police force. Each nation is soverign. As to freedom...such includes the right to free speech. If someone had referred to the military as "warmongers" they would be exercising that freedom...the freedom you claim to support in one breath and oppose in the next.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jan 4, 2010, at 4:18 PM

AF Wife-with all due respect, I didn't think boot camp was any kind of struggle at all, and I went through in '71. Maybe have it like it was in the 50's or 60's? I heard some horror stories about those years. I joined for different reasons, couldn't afford college (no desire to go even if I could), lack of decent jobs in the town I was living at the time, but most of all I had an obligation to serve. And with a low lottery number I also dodged the draft by enlisting.

-- Posted by BlackBird on Mon, Jan 4, 2010, at 4:10 PM

yeah Slater, you heard right... me and a whole bunch of people since the 60's signed up for the benefite of joining the military. That is correct.

I belive in my Country, certainly (that is one of the reasons I opposed the war in Vietnam...because I wanted our Nation to do the right thing...not the wrong thing), but I did not belive in our making war on the Vietnamese people who had never attacked us, never threatened us, and were no direct threat to the security of the United States. As to the draft...why? Why do we need to increase the size of our military and our tax bill? Such an act would make no sense at this time.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jan 4, 2010, at 4:08 PM

Slater - I agree with you on military service. Could be an answer to jail/prison overcrowding. I read so many comments complaining about people getting probation - maybe 8 weeks of bootcamp (the way it was in the 70's) and a trip overseas would fix that problem too.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Mon, Jan 4, 2010, at 1:52 PM

AF Wife/Slater: I also thought that immediately when reading that particular blog. In that instance, I was also thinking what right did he have to accuse all of our government of self-serving purposes for representing our country(i.e. being in the top 1% to 5% salary-wise, plus so-called bribes of which I am not disputing)when he readily admitted he only joined the military for his own benefit! Isn't that a touch hypocritical?

-- Posted by nouveaublogger on Mon, Jan 4, 2010, at 1:50 PM

i would like someone to tell me how as tax payers we cant get our streets cleaned off or at least sanded. my street is nothing but a sheet of ice. i know the snow routes need to be cleaned and that is fine, but after they are done you coule atleast come by and get the side streets. i have lived on a side street for the last 5 years and i have only seen a grader come down my street one time. could you at least hirer a sub contractor to spread sand so we can feel our tax dollars are not a waste.

-- Posted by retired military on Mon, Jan 4, 2010, at 10:44 AM

set his underwear on fire to blow up a plane, **** glad it didnt happen, the death of so many innocent people and disapointment of 70 virgins.

-- Posted by yank on Mon, Jan 4, 2010, at 10:26 AM

AFW said:

"It amazes me that someone has the nerve to admit he joined the military in the US for his own good - not because he believed in his country..."

You know, I had a very similar thought when I read his comment.

My personal belief is that the government made a mistake by doing away with the draft. I believe that everyone should experience military service.

It's true that not everyone is suited to the life, but it isn't a career commitment, either.

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Jan 4, 2010, at 10:18 AM

"Yemen dismisses Al Qaeda threat as 'exaggerated'"

You have got to be kidding.....A man set his underwear on fire trying to blow up a plane full of people! Exaggerated? pretty extreme I'd say.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Mon, Jan 4, 2010, at 8:58 AM

It amazes me that someone has the nerve to admit he joined the military in the US for his own good - not because he believed in his country. I'm too angry now to make any sensible response to any of this after like many families, I spent the holidays without my husband here. Instead he spent his Christmas in a cold room in Afghanistan eatting cold food out of a styrofoam container. There are many Afghanis who want freedom and many nations in the world who want to help them achieve that freedom. As anyone in the military will tell you, "I'd rather fight them over there than here in the US". Everyone has the right to their opinions but no civilian anywhere has the right to refer to our military as warmongers. I take that very personally.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Mon, Jan 4, 2010, at 8:49 AM

Like to hear about then new incoming freshman at Missouri Valley Softball program

-- Posted by MARS1070 on Mon, Jan 4, 2010, at 8:37 AM

I am glad to see xray admits he is "no expert on cap and [trade]." His words...not mine.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jan 4, 2010, at 2:33 AM

"Yemen dismisses Al Qaeda threat as 'exaggerated'"


-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jan 4, 2010, at 2:29 AM

"'Experts' justify profiling, body scanners with familiar paranoid rhetoric"


-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jan 4, 2010, at 2:25 AM

AF Brat

On problem with your theory: I am Austraialian only by 1 of my citizenships. I am American by birth and decent as my family goes back in America since America was a British Colony.

As to my opponent(s) resorting to name calling and personal attacks...well, it does serve one purpose...it let's me know when my opponent has lost the debate.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Jan 4, 2010, at 2:03 AM

Pretty funny, OKR :)

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Jan 3, 2010, at 11:53 PM

Now here is a fresh look at how we can more efficiently handle health care, and homeland security. http://satiricalpolitical.com/2009/12/31...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jan 3, 2010, at 11:41 PM

MrXray, thanks for the info re cap and trade/tax issue. Obviously I need to do some reading up on it.

"Slater. How can you draw such a complicated opinion regarding how I view oil and the supply or lack thereof, based on a few comments on a poll? That is not smart."

This one puzzles me. You must have me mixed up with someone else for the part of your comment having to do with a poll. Actually, I was good-naturedly poking fun at you for your remarks about disappearing oil and global warming, but I didn't say anything about any poll. The poll commentary was directed at News, and it was about public opinion re the health care reform.

But, getting back to the oil business, during the Carter administration an oil independence initiative was introduced which would/could have made the US no longer dependent on foreign oil sources by 1985. When Reagan took office he initially curtailed the program after taking office, and then after his re-election he cut it out altogether. Reagan had some economic advice that turned out to work in reverse of what was intended.

Like you, I believe we should've been exploring our own sources more agressively, but that didn't happen. I was in an oilfield business here in Texas which was doing very well when Reagan took office, and by the end of his first year, drilling had dropped by about 90%. Incidentally, Carter's initiative came as a result of the 1974 world oil shortage.

I don't agree that science is skewing its research in favor of someone's agenda. Scientists have been studying global climate conditions for decades (think about the ozone holes, for example), scientists all around the world, not just in America. There's no conspiracy about climate deterioration. For decades science has been publicizing the damage to the atmosphere by the continued cutting and burning of the South American rain forests. No, sorry, MrXray, I can't agree with you that global warming is a ploy.

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Jan 3, 2010, at 11:31 PM

Slater: I am no expert on cap and tax. BUT, what I do know is that there is TOO much bad science and too much controversy and too many agendas by the likes of Gore and the UN/IPCC for me to just take the global warming/climate change issue on the word of people who are providing so called science while accepting funding that influences the outcome of that science. There are too many problems that you see when you get below the surface of climate change science from the UN and Gore for me to just willingly accept what they tell me without more debate from the science that opposes GOREbal warming information.

Cap and tax, if it goes like Gore wants it, will have the government providing imaginary carbon credits that will be auctioned off (NOT sold for a set amount that would give all industries, businesses equal opportunity) to the highest biddder and GE and some other huge companies are planning on making bulk purchases so they have a monopoly on these credits. Then as the businesses need those credits, GE will be making huge amounts of money and the working class will be hit with the cost of funding this program as when any business has to make purchases of carbon credits the cost will be passed on to the consumer. As OBAMA said, utility costs will necessarily sky rocket. That is what I have learned while reading about this issue in a nutshell.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Jan 3, 2010, at 10:22 PM

newsacross posted: "Calling me names such or describing me as a "know-it-all" won't change the fact that our Congressmen all accept bribes from lobbiests."

All Legislators everywhere accept "bribes." They are just paid in different coin and called by different names. Every once in a while they aren't careful and someone gets caught and prosecuted. But that doesn't stop it.

Actually, I would have thought that you would like the tag "know-it-all." It must be that famous Ozzzie modesty showing up. ;-)

-- Posted by AF Brat on Sun, Jan 3, 2010, at 10:17 PM

Newsacross... whatever.

Slater. How can you draw such a complicated opinion regarding how I view oil and the supply or lack thereof, based on a few comments on a poll? That is not smart.

I am a firm believer in good common sense conservation practices with EVERY resource, especially natural ones. I am a very firm believer that resources ARE to be used and exploited but should be done with ration and caution. HOWEVER, that does not mean that the greenies and their 'sky is falling' scare tactics are to be believed. Anytime people utilize those tactics then people with reason and logic should automatically be skeptical, especially if it is being used to push radical policy changes or things like stimulus or global warming or freezing (depending on the decade)

I also believe it is extremely arrogant for humans to think that they can make a drastic change in climate. Do things that humans do affect the earth and the climate? Of course they do but the extent or the harshness is up for debate.

There should have been a smart utilization of our own oil and natural gas resources a long time ago along with a very aggressive program to provide incentive to find and develop renewable energy sources into cheap and efficient and practical energy sources. Instead, like everything else the government touches, it is heavily influenced by special interest groups. What we have today are the large oil companies spending billions for their agenda and the greenies doing the same, both are extremist viewpoints and not common sense or logical or intelligent viewpoints.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Jan 3, 2010, at 10:16 PM

It's interesting how posts are sometimes slow to appear, and in a random order of sorts. A few blanks were just filled in on my screen, in spite of all the refreshing I do to stay current.

I've always believed that our elected members of government should be limited to some specified time period. As the U.S. Supreme Court reminded the State of Missouri a few years ago after the state attempted to set limits on its federal representatives, only Congress has the right to set limits. No!! Really??

When considering the differences between power and money, I tend to believe that initially legislators are seduced by the opportunity for a position of power; the lust for the money comes later, once they see just how much they can acquire along with how easy it is to get it.

Congress, being self-governing, decides for itself what its members will be paid, what benefits they'll receive, how long they can keep the seat, how openly responsible they have to be, and who knows what else. These are some of the rerasons why I say that Congress has distanced itself from the American people in a way that takes much of our control away - the points that Lincoln made about government by, for, and of the people. It leaves us very few options and appealing to their sensibilities isn't one.

Shifting the balance of power to their side has been a calculated process, and if the public continues to keep its back turned to what's going on, nothing will be made right. Holding their feet to the fire of accountability can only be accomplished by deposing all of them, as many times as it takes to strangle the outside influences and convince them we're mad as hell and we're not going to take it any more!

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Jan 3, 2010, at 9:28 PM

MrXray, I'm sure you agree that budget projections are part of every organization's plan for identifying potential revenue sources/uses. I'll honestly tell you I know little about cap and trade, primarily because I'm not much on alarmist reactions to proposals that on the surface generate a great debate. It's the stuff that slips in to those late-night sessions in Congress that worry me most.

Analyzing budgets is a lot like looking at a road map while on a trip - you see a variety of routes leading to your destination.

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Jan 3, 2010, at 8:22 PM

MrXray, the oil companies love you because you believe the past and present warnings about fossil fuels depletion and global warming are hoaxes.

Of course you aren't alone in your belief, but science isn't making up stories just to scare us.

You're in esteemed cmopany, since the world's leaders are indifferent to the worldwide scientific reports and studies citing the deleterious effects of the three major components contributing to "global warming." All the industrialized countries don't care because there's no payoff to be serious about immediate and comprehensive action.

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Jan 3, 2010, at 8:11 PM


You were definately name calling and attacking me personally as you are now again. Please spare me your opinion of me and stick to the issues or I will simply ignore any comments you leave in this forum. Its all the same to me either way mate.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jan 3, 2010, at 7:59 PM

Slater: If you look to the 2012 and beyond budgets that Obama has, you will see that he is funding health care changes by the revenue he predicts will be generated by auctioning off carbon credits after crap and tax is passed.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Jan 3, 2010, at 7:39 PM

Newsacross: I dont think there really was any name calling going on, just pointing out that YOU always arrogantly condemn all other points of view and then make condesending comments about those who have differing opinions.

Maybe there was SARCASM regarding how you attempt to discuss, but not really name calling.

I can point out differences between the US health care system and the system in Australia and show you that YOUR system kills people due to its system because of the lack of built in profits that allow for more diagnostic tools, more facilities and more providers. This is reflected in the suruvivability rates for the major common diseases that are used to attempt to compare one system to another, such as heart disease and cancers. It is fact that if you have less diagnostic tools per capita then you have to have LONGER waiting periods between seeing your general practictioner and obtaining the diagnostic exams. If you have longer waits then your disease process goes on longer before you are diagnosed and then treated. In the case of Heart attacks, if you do not have enough cardiac angioplasty facilities and providers then your chances of dying from a heart attack are much higher.

Yes we need to actually address WHY health care costs are high, but to vilify capitalism is really inaccurate. It was special interest groups that influenced POLITICIANS into making the rules in which insurance companies currently do business. Same with Pharma, and any other part of the health care industry. We do not have a free market but rules and regs that prevent the supply/demand part of the free market from functioning.

Simply changing from what we have to a more socialized system will NOT solve ANYTHING pertaining to cost of health care because the corruption in DC will ALWAYS have unintended consequeces built in as they gear things toward this or that special interest group.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Jan 3, 2010, at 7:38 PM

News, you talk as if all of America is eager for this "reform."

We're told by the media that opinion polls show a large part of the public believes the reform is inadequate in most every way and is may end up costing more than what the current system costs.

There again, we're fed information synthesized by newspeople who understand even less about what constitutes reform than those making the changes, so, where does that leave us? It's not like we're having a national vote on it, and even if there was, most people who actually would get up off the couch and vote wouldn't expend one ounce of energy to actually learn about what they were voting on.

If you honestly believe your points are solutions, why not send them to Washington? As I pointed out to someone once before, the probability that people in Washington read the Speak Out blog in the MDN is remote at best.

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Jan 3, 2010, at 7:30 PM

SLATER: you stated "I wonder if our elected "officials" have enough brainpower to construct meaningful reform, let alone the willpower to resist the temptations of olympic-sized pools filled with money."

Exactly my point. How can we expect our corrupted politicians and the corrupt game they play with special interests to come up with a system that will actually solve problems instead of pad their campaign funds, get closed door deals like they gave to Ben Nelson from Nebraska, and not favor the special interest group of the day, which happens to be primarily UNIONS right now?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Jan 3, 2010, at 7:30 PM

Slater: Not sure why oil companies like me.. lol please explain your thought there...

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Jan 3, 2010, at 7:23 PM


The thing I have great difficulty in understanding is why we Americans seem so willing to accept a highly inefficient and costly health-care-access system when socialized health care has proven both highly effective and far less costly.

As you know, I have years of first hand experience with both systems and I have found that socialized health-care-access is far better in every way. And since costs are compared on a per capita basis, population size becomes irrelevant. But hey...you folks go right ahead with your very costly and inefficient system and the rest of the World will keep their socialized health-care-access. I guess we will all be happy then..won't we?

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jan 3, 2010, at 6:52 PM

Yes, I heard a week or so ago that an estimated 15-20 million people would still be uninsured, mainly younger people who would choose not to purchase insurance, along with the pool of undocumented aliens.

This health care reform will initially be inadequate, but could be refined over time. Obama made that statement a loong time ago that any reform bill won't be perfect out of the box, but will require adjustments.

I wonder if our elected "officials" have enough brainpower to construct meaningful reform, let alone the willpower to resist the temptations of olympic-sized pools filled with money.

The pettiness of it all, the love of money, now grown into an intractable, maybe even criminal, cesspool.

Victor Hugo said he wished for people to have money, but to put some of it before themselves and say, "This is mine," so that the question of ownership is clear.

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Jan 3, 2010, at 6:37 PM


Actually Slater I am presenting solutions as I see it. I believe the secret Senate and House ballot votes...recording only the totals of the votes but not how each specific Congressman has voted would eliminate all the capitalist lobbying that has put our Congressmen into the pockets of the richest 1% of our population.

As to name calling...it has been my experience in life that during the course of debate when one side begins to attack the other side personally, its usually because the side that is attacking the person instead of the argument does not have a valid argument to present...or as one of my speech professors in college (DR. Michael McDonald, PHd) said..."if you have to attack your opponent instead of your opponent's argument...you have already lost the debate."

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jan 3, 2010, at 6:25 PM

"Senate health-care bill would still leave millions uninsured"


-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jan 3, 2010, at 6:15 PM

MrWray, the oil companies love people like you.

News, if you'd refrain from wanting all of us to believe you have the final answer to every issue imaginable, most likely people would also refrain from calling you names, as you put it.

The point is, our problems don't stem from a single source, and no one action will provide the solutions.

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Jan 3, 2010, at 6:15 PM

However, may I suggest that one way of eliminating lobbiest bribes is to go to secret vote in the house and senate where only the results of the vote are recorded but not the vote of each congressman.

Without the ability to verify a congressman's vote, there is no way a firm is going to payout the bribe. At that point the money will be out of the game and the only issue in each election that would matter is the honesty and integrity of the candidate for office.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jan 3, 2010, at 5:31 PM

It is funny.... in my short life.. 40 years... I have survived the 1970s ice age, the 1980s supposed running out of oil, and now the 1990s global warming.... now all they can manipulate weak minds with is that the "climate changes" so somehow man must be responsible as they were for all the other predictions that they cried about but never came to fruition.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Jan 3, 2010, at 5:26 PM



Calling me names such or describing me as a "know-it-all" won't change the fact that our Congressmen all accept bribes from lobbiests.

If you disagree that lobbiest "campaign contributions" don't have the same effect as a bribe then please present your case...but don't attack me just because you can't qualify or even present an opposing argument.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jan 3, 2010, at 5:26 PM

I have to agree with newsacross that if the only change that were to be made were term limits the game would not change. However, the politicians are in the top 5% of wage earners and then they get all those perks and pricey benefits.

The balance of being paid enough that they wont want or need to be corrupted and being paid too much has definitely been screwed up. G. Washington and others warned against this very thing.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Jan 3, 2010, at 5:24 PM

Slater: Term limits would help reduce the hold the special interest money has on the exisiting lifers in Congress and our political arena. The shorter amount of time would allow more politicians to have more intestinal fortitude to stand up to the special interests if they know they have to return home in a few years and go back to living a regular person's life in their own political regions. This would be the first major step to break the "traditional" way of playing the political game. Unless there is a political revolution that is dramatic, this type of change will not happen overnight because there is too much money opposing it and the media would oppose it as well.

I just really do not see the logic that most people have bought into that says money equals representation. That is how this corruption started.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Jan 3, 2010, at 5:22 PM

Slater: You should know better... news across knows all about all. Do not ever ever forget that.

It does not matter that their is logical and rational data, information, and science that backs up opposing information... unless newsacross says it is so, then it is not so. lol

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Jan 3, 2010, at 5:18 PM

I see I should've run my opinion by our self-appoointed expert before putting up my post.

And I was trying so hard to maintain the spirit of peace and good will! GRRRRRRR...

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Jan 3, 2010, at 4:39 PM


I understood your message the first time.

Here is why replacing all the Congress won't get the job done:

Until lobbying is eliminated from the Congress, our Senators and Representitives will continue to accept bribes from the capitalists....even if we replace them all with new folks.

When you are one of the 1% of pur population that owns and controls 98.5% of the means of production and distribution, finding the price of a Senator or Representitive's "loyalty" isn't at all difficult.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jan 3, 2010, at 4:30 PM


Actually writing Vice President Gore and asking him to explain global warming to you might actually be a good idea...at least then you might gain a better understanding of global warming and its effects on weather patterns. Extreme weather swings such as the very cold winter you are experiencing are indeed predicted by the global warming model.

And one other thing you may want to consider...one of the biggest problems with global warming is that it can (and has in the past) shut down the Atlantic Convection which is a process by which global heat is redistributed from the equator to the northern and southern hemisphers of the Earth. When it shuts down it will get real cold alright...even in the summer. In fact, global warming leads to global cooling and a brand spanking new ice age...and that is just the beginning of the problems it will cause.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jan 3, 2010, at 3:43 PM

News, you missed my point. When I talk about the "haves" and the "have nots," I'm not speaking in terms of material possessions.

Thomas Jefferson said, "When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty."

Our collective perception of the government is that we now have tyranny, and the public response seems to be that of putting its head in the sand, hoping the troubles will pass without direct incident.

The longer we keep our heads buried, the more difficult the task becomes to resolve the issues. Congress has done its job to isolate itself from public scrutiny, so the only recourse is to vote ALL of them out and put fresh faces in the chairs, and continue turning them over with EVERY election until govenment gets the message that the public has had enough of the graft and corruption.

People will have to resign themselves to the fact that a certain number of those being replaced are honest and forthright (relatively so), but to drive home the message every one of them will need to be replaced until they begin acting in concert for the welfare of the nation and its people.

If we're to continue living in a sovereign nation we're going to HAVE to set aside our ideological differences and work together toward the common goal, or our democratic form of government of, for, and by the people as described by Abraham Lincoln SHALL perish from the Earth.

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Jan 3, 2010, at 1:27 PM

If I had Al Gore's phone number I would tell him that his "golbal warming" would be most welcome here in Saline County this morning--and probably for the next week!!

-- Posted by farmerwife on Sun, Jan 3, 2010, at 9:50 AM


Yes you may be correct in a sense.

However, there are not enough rich folks to mount or sustain a civil war and what is much more likely is a revolution similar to the one you cite, the French Revolution. And in that case...I sure would not want to be a rich person. As we saw in the French, Russian, and Chinese Revolutions...the rich are only rich as long as we, the masses, allow them to be. But when revolution takes hold and the masses take away all the rich folks' wealth, in an instant they become very poor and spend most their time praying they and their families won't be the next ones to take their position on the guillotine.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jan 3, 2010, at 2:29 AM

Slater: You, me, and News....or should I say Larry, Moe, and Curly Joe.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jan 3, 2010, at 2:25 AM

You and News will have it to yourselves shortly. I'm going to get up from here and give my weary eyeballs a rest.

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Jan 3, 2010, at 2:23 AM

News: Ignorance is rife. I am grateful for mine as it restores my humility. :)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jan 3, 2010, at 2:22 AM

Who's the third one?

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Jan 3, 2010, at 2:19 AM

LOL thanks OKR

But actually its evening here...7 PMish...lol...and its also summertime...not that winter is much different than summer here lol. I am sorry to hear about the cold there. It worries me a great deal since my Parents are very old and such weather presents them great difficulties. However...so far, so good.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jan 3, 2010, at 2:12 AM

Slater: Down to four farenheit here by Friday.

News: Amen, and you are welcome.

I suppose we are the last three old fools still up. Whoa! I forgot. News, good mornin' mate.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jan 3, 2010, at 2:09 AM

Here's what WTF posted the other day:


The next civil war will be between the haves and the have nots. It'll be like the French Revolution, or the British civil war between the Roundheads and the Royalists.

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Jan 3, 2010, at 2:09 AM

Hi all, I am originally from Marshall, Missouri and I wanted to share my exciting news with my hometown. I recently compiled a cookbook and it is now being published on Amazon! I am not sure if it is okay to post links here, but here is the link to my book http://www.amazon.com/Ricky-Show-Present... and if the link is not allowed you can just go to Amazon and search for The Ricky Show Presents . You can get it in paperback or if you have their Kindle device it is available electronically as well. I really appreciate all the support I have gotten from my family and friends there in Marshall! I am also working on a fantasy novel for my publisher that will hopefully be available by the end of the year! Thanks all and have a wonderful and prosperous new year.

-- Posted by riclin1 on Sun, Jan 3, 2010, at 2:04 AM

That cold air is headed this way in a few days, they're saying. By week's end the high is supposed to be in the upper 30s. Guess I'll dig out a pair of socks, just in case.

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Jan 3, 2010, at 1:58 AM

Oklahoma Reader,

Thanks for that link. I am not surprised at all. Capitalists only have 2 goals...solvency and profits. No where does morality have a hand in their economic decisions. It illustrates one of the major problems of capitalism.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jan 3, 2010, at 1:56 AM

Snow's pert near gone Slater, but its a gettin colder'n bizzarro hell.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jan 3, 2010, at 1:56 AM

Oklahoma Reader

Yes one beautiful thing about facts...they are what they are and cannot be disputed as long as they are indeed facts. After all, facts are not subjective, but rather they are objective. All the facts that I itemized in my comment are easily verifiable, were broadcast on all the major news networks, and continue to exist in the archives of most, in if not all, well respected and trusted news publications. I considered putting in the references but since these things can be easily verified and are part of the public record, I saw no reason to take up the additional space.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jan 3, 2010, at 1:51 AM

Bailed out bankers are foreclosing on churches at Christmas. Now there is a target for our outrage much more fitting than some we have chosen, such as fellow denizens of the middle class.

Read this, and engage in justified anger. http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/ec...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jan 3, 2010, at 1:49 AM

MrXray et al of like mind:


A typical politico who speaks opposing thoughts from both sides of his mouth, or as our Native Americans used to say: He speaks with a forked tongue.

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Jan 3, 2010, at 1:43 AM

I did not single out any one person with my comment News Across. Actually I concur with your facts. Further, I have not seen a response to them that addresses them one by one in rebuttal. I can only surmise that the silence signals acquiescence.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jan 3, 2010, at 1:41 AM

Howdy OKR - got snow still? :)

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Jan 3, 2010, at 1:22 AM


I certainly do not support President Obama nor will I be voting for him in 2012...or any Democrat or Republican for that matter. I am an independent and I don't vote for warmongers under any circumstances. Nor do I approve of the Job the Democrats and President Obama are doing any more than I approved of the Bush Administration and the Republicans that controlled all 3 branches of Government between Jan, 2001 and Jan, 2007.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jan 3, 2010, at 1:16 AM

Oklahoma Reader

I can assure you mate...I am not polarized in any way. The facts I listed in my comment are all verifiable and well known facts...not opinion, and both my position on the issues and my opinions are derived directly from the facts. I have no emotional feelings either way, and my only interest is in seeing an America that practices what it preaches and respects human rights...a couple of things that seems to have been missing for a number of years now.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Jan 3, 2010, at 1:01 AM

Supporting what I said....I just read this. What has gone on in the last ten years is insanity. We, our country, is in an insane idiotic mode.

Read this then laugh, or cry, frankly I may choose to do both. http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/featur...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jan 3, 2010, at 12:56 AM

Sure is a lot of hate filled stuff being presented by polarized people.

Keep it up, stay at each others throats, it is just what the Corporatists want. Divide, and conquer.

War is the best diversion possible to keep our minds off the steady march toward, no the existence of, an oligarchy.

We are such fools.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Jan 3, 2010, at 12:39 AM

Head Shrinker... I know you do not acknowledge that Obama's czars and appointees are not radicals.. not the dude who used to be the Green job czar, not the dude currently the the safe school czar whose agenda is to teach elementary aged kids how to actively participate in homosexual activities at the park and other things of this nature, google fistgate. And the list goes on. I also realize you believe like Janet Napolitano and that anyone who opposes Obama and protests the government, believes in God, is against Abortion is MORE in need of watching by fed and state and local police forces than the guys who are actual terrorist on known terror watch lists, whose fathers have warned us that their sons are going to probably attack us. I mean that is the left viewpoint... anyone with common sense would view that as radical.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jan 2, 2010, at 10:26 PM

newsacross and everyone else. Did you know that Obama issued an executive order that now allows INTERPOL to freely operate with full diplomatic immunity within our borders?


I know you guys hate Bush for the patriot act and I am sure that you probably will find a way to justify why Obama did this and that is ok with you. Who needs US Sovereignty right?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jan 2, 2010, at 10:16 PM

Head Shrinker... in another place not on this website, I have stated that I really dont care if Obama stayed in Hawaii and I think that most presidents could have monitored and managed this situation from locales other than the white house. The point was not a criticism of Obama, although you apparently are not capable of unbiased interpretation of simple words. Again, I simply compared two situations and as you claim the right is, the left is just as hypocritcal. I find it funny that people on either side cannot see that they are just as hypocritical as those they are accusing.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jan 2, 2010, at 10:12 PM

soooo HeadShrinker... you claim to know what is my mind and you can somehow read my mind to know that I am defending Bush? Why cant a person simply see two similar situations and draw conclusions about the way that each was handled by a certain portion of our society?

By claiming YOU know what I am thinking, you immediately lose all credability.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jan 2, 2010, at 10:05 PM

No news I didn't thank you for anything. You readily admit you joined for the benifits - for your own good. If you go back and read what I wrote: "I would like to thank those that go to war on the behalf of those idealistic things that many would see as good." That doesn't include the self-serving purpose you had.

-- Posted by broke-n-busted on Sat, Jan 2, 2010, at 10:03 PM


You make some excellent points there. We sometimes forget that the Palin/Beck/O'Reilly only represent the radical christianist/racist fringe of our society. I really don't think any of them matter much to the majority of us. I believe the American People see through this radical, anti-American, right-wing fringe pretty well and realize that these folks have nothing constructive to add to our Country.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Jan 2, 2010, at 9:35 PM

I was reading the post and one of the post was from a mrxray who stated he wasn't defending Bush. Well of course he was and its obvious he watches fox news and probably listens to Rush Limbaugh also. I would bet $20 that mrxray wasn't complaining when pres Bush didn't respond to the shoe bomber for 5 or 6 days(Reid was also in a civilian court for this). Whoever reads this post should ask the question what is wrong with the right wingers these days? Why the hypocrisy?Why the hate? Why the lies? Why the obstructionism? The answer may lie in the fact that the parties leaders are all radicals and the right wing media is even worse. So the common person must ask the questions of the Republican party and its followers.

-- Posted by Headshrinker on Sat, Jan 2, 2010, at 9:27 PM

oh and about Glenn Beck...

I live in Australia for the most part and I rarely pay any attention to him. Frankly, his antics and his empty arguments lead me to believe he is an opportunist....

However, I really don't care one way or the other about Beck. He has no influence where I live and I don't think he has a lot of influence with the majority of my fellow Americans in the U.S. either mate.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Jan 2, 2010, at 8:55 PM

US male,

I am not a Democrat nor am I a Republican...I am an independent and no I don't support Democrats or Republicans breaking our laws...and I think they both have broken our laws especially with the past and current aggression we are thrusting at brown-skinned people in other countries.

However, I did take a particularly dim view of the multiple violations of our laws by the Republicans during their absolute control of our 3 branches of Government from Jan 2001 to Jan 2007 because of the depth and seriousness of the laws they broke. In addition, the Republicans seem to have nothing but contempt for our Bill of Rights and other rights of the American People.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Jan 2, 2010, at 8:40 PM

NEWS ACROSS, now that is very interesting,let me get this right, if a democrat advises breaking the law, its poor judgement. When the President follows their advice, then he is a liar. Ok, I got that. You say you don't hate the sinner, just the sin. Thats fine,but why does the left hate Glenn Beck. Why don't they pick his message apart with the truth. Thanks for being honest with my question.

-- Posted by US male on Sat, Jan 2, 2010, at 8:28 PM


The Taliban are not Pakistani as many people erroneously believe. They are infact the children of the former Afgan Mujuhadin who defeated the Russians in the 80's. In addition, the Taliban leaders have consistantly said their main concern is taking back their Nation (Afganistan) from the foreign invaders -- us. Either way, both Pakistand and Afganistan are independent and soverign Nations and their future should not be dictated to them at the end of a gun barrel (standard conservative foreign policy).

Again we are not authorized by the majority of the World's nations to be the World Police anymore than Hitler or Stalin were.

I guess its ok with you if we are warmongers. I guess its ok with you that we torture people. I guess its ok with you that we committed genocide in Iraq and are now committing genocide in Afganistan...but its not ok with me...and I vote in every election based upon my view of the issues.

Finally, regarding your thanking me and other vets for our service...you are welcome..but really mate, I joined up for the benefits...not because I had some buring desire to kill brown skinned people.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Jan 2, 2010, at 8:05 PM


Actually I am always open to reasonable arguments unfortunately the arguments I have heard from conservatives make no sense, don't seem to be influenced by fact but rather by emotion, and ignore reality and precident...as well as our laws often times.

I guess I am just a little old fashioned...I call a shovel a shovel and no matter how much lipstick conservatives put on their pigs, they are still pigs.

As to the current administration, it is a center right administration. Obama may have run center left but he has definately swung center right.

As to war...I prefer peace.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Jan 2, 2010, at 7:56 PM

Merry New Year to all! (although, it appears the liberal left has learned NOTHING about economics, war, foreign policy or any other aspect of politics.) (note: That was NOT me defending Bush or supporting him)

It is pointless to argue with newsacross because he/she does not have the capability of being open minded. It is his/her way or you are wrong....

Obama stated that Afghanistan was the real and right place to be fighting...yet it took from early Aug or before until just recently to PARTIALLY take the advice of the generals HE Placed on the ground. Morale of the military is low because he is NOT capable of making decisions in a timely manner. Funny that it took Obama 3-4 days to respond to a failed terrorist attack that the GOVERNMENT failed to stop with advance warning from the terrorist father and other information, yet all you BUSH whackers complain because Bush did not immediately put down the reading book in the elementary classroom and rush out in a panic after 9/11 events started, even though to do so would have scared the crap out of little kids. Again not defending Bush, just finding the irony of the two situations/presidents and how hypocritical the LEFT is ALL the time

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Jan 2, 2010, at 6:42 PM

Looks as if the Taliban (That would be the previous governing body that did not ask us for military assistance in Afghanistan.) is in the process of trying to take over in Pakistan too. The people there don't really have the means of taking them on. They don't want them there but they can't keep them out either. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34665652/ns/...

Meanwhile News makes pointless point after pointless point.

I wonder if we had a written invitation from the majority of the countries of the world to invade Normandy?

I personally find it interesting that given a President with political views of the left and a previous President with views from the right that given the view from the position of the White House the course remains the same. It seems to me that those of you that complain the most about our current course in Afghanistan voted for Obama. The path he is taking is the one he said he would take in his campaign. You voted for him. What were you thinking?

Have you ever been in a position in life where given a set of choices they just kind of all of them suck? That is where we are with the Afghanistan situation. We have a finite set of choices. We can try to accomplish what we set out to do - remove the Taliban/eliminate al-Qaida and get out. Or we can write it off as a lost cause and give the Taliban back their country. The first option leads to loss of American and local lives that we will read about and feel badly about. The second option will also lead to loss of lives (probably more than the first option) but we will have our troops home and we won't have to care what the Taliban is doing while they "govern" their own people. We won't read about it in the papers or see it on the news so it must be better that way. That is, except when the Taliban get so outlandish and so heavy handed that they cannot be ignored. They were there a few years ago and it wouldn't take long for them to get back to that point.

So, for my part, I would like to thank those that go to war on the behalf of those idealistic things that many would see as good. I don't see their efforts as a futile lost cause. Win, lose or draw if we hold our heads high and struggle for what is right we are going the right direction. I've had occasion to talk to three different soldiers that have been to Afghanistan. All three of them said we were doing good things. All three of them said they would go back.

-- Posted by broke-n-busted on Sat, Jan 2, 2010, at 6:23 PM

Violating the Geneva conventions and Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 118 is never a good idea and his "advisors" clearly advised him poorly when they suggested he ignore our laws, international law, and our historical precidents in these decisions.

As far as hate goes...I have absolutely no idea where you pulled that one out of mate...out of a hat I would guess...or out of ignorance. either way, I don't hate the sinners...I just hate the sin.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Jan 2, 2010, at 6:22 PM

NEWS ACROSS ,you know all the facts, --WOW. Then you can explain to me why if G.W.Bush is so stupid did he follow the expert advice he was given. www.snopes.com/politics/war/wmdquotes.as... please reply without hate, just the facts.

-- Posted by US male on Sat, Jan 2, 2010, at 6:00 PM


In both your comments you assume and base your argument on a lot of things regarding the wars that never occured and are the opposite of the facts.

Let's stick with facts.

1.) FACT: The United States is only one of many of the Worlds nations. We are not the authorized World Police. We have never been authorized by a majority of the World's nations to be the World police nor do we have the legal or moral right to authorize ourselves to be the World police.

2.) FACT: We were never invited into these 2 nations by either Former Governments of Iraq and Afganistan nor did they ever at anytime ask us for military assistance.

3.) FACT: We invaded both Iraq and Afganistan militarily, aggressively, and killed thousands of their noncombatant civiians and possibly over a million of Iraqi noncombatant civilians of which the current Government in Iraq estimates 55% of those were women and children killed directly by the American military weapons in direct violation of the Geneva Conventions and Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 118 of U.S. Federal Acts.

4.) FACT: We were never attacked by Iraq nor did the government or the citizens of Afganistan attack the USA.

5.) FACT: None of the 19 hijackers on 911 were Afgan and none were Iraqi...not even 1 of them was Iraqi or Afgan. The Afgan Government (Taliban Party) had nothing to do with Al Queada's attack on the USA. In addition its also a fact that the Government of Afganistan detained Bin Ladin immediately after the alleged Al Quaeda attack on the USA on 9/11, and offered to send him to a 3rd country in chains...they only objected to handing him directly to the USA but stated that there were fully prepared to hand him over to some 3rd party country such as Egypt.

6.) FACT: Neither Iraq nor Afganistan had a navy, airforce, or an army capable of reaching the United States nor were they any kind of direct threat to the security of the United States nor did they ever threaten to attack the United States.

7.) FACT: The United States is around $60 trillion in debt. We owe far more than we have in the bank. Yet we are spending trillions on war.

8.) FACT: In the entire history of the World no foreign nation has ever been able to defeat Afganistan and occupy it successfully.

9.) FACT: During the course of these wars we have tortured hundreds and possibly thousands of people with such measures as waterboarding -- including the torture of young children -- all in direct violation of the Geneva Conventions and Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 118 of United States Federal law.

Those are the facts and they are not disputable. They are facts. You have a right to your opinion but you don't have a right to try to change facts...and every fact I list up there is easily verifiable.

These wars are just plain wrong, very bad for the United States, and we need to withdrawl all our military forces and bring them back to the United States immedietly. Its time our Government start doing the right thing instead of the wrong thing if we ever expect to be able to be taken seriously by the World community of nations.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Jan 2, 2010, at 4:19 PM

Have a look at our US Navy drill team in action:


I'm bragging and most proud of the fact that my son was a member of his high school Naval Jr. ROTC drill team which won first place in a national competition his senior year.

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Jan 2, 2010, at 1:21 PM

You just have to prepare for WINTER. As the Swedish immigrants used to write home in the 1890's -- "wear warm clothes." No one is fat in Minnesota [ ;-) ]but we all look that way.

It's -17 at the moment with wind chill of -40.

However, the sky is blue and the sun is boiling through the living room picture window. It is actually hot on the couch.

I'll just go out, all bundled up, and unplug the car from it's tank heater and drive my Warm Snowmobile off to the post office. Note: I do have snowshoes, two down sleeping bags, and extra clothes, food, and a Coleman stove in the back end. Minneapolis is no problem but you can get stuck out in the country.

Worst weather I ever survived was in a 1966(?) ice storm at Whiteman AFB. The ice was over a inch thick on the windshield of my VW. It could not be scrapped off, we had to pour pot after pot of boiling water on it to melt the ice off. And we were slip sliding along the driveway to do it.

-- Posted by AF Brat on Sat, Jan 2, 2010, at 10:02 AM

Yeah I have been hearing about those cold temps on the news and from my friends and family back there in the States.

I hate cold weather. Its Summer here in OZ. The temps today are in the mid 80s to low 90s. Even the Winter here doesn't seem like Winter to me. The daytime Winter temps are between 60 (brrrr...) and 75...sometimes 80. The grass stays a deep green, the trees and bushes all keep their leaves and stay green year round. On the down side, I do have to mow my lawn year round too.

Anyway, I hope everyone there in Marshall is keeping warm and staying indoors. Of course on the upside...wait...there really isn't any upside to Winter in the Midwest...well just stay warm folks and don't worry Spring is just around the corner.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jan 1, 2010, at 10:57 PM

Holy New Berlin, koeller!!!!! I'd send you some of our warmer air if Mother Nature were more agreeable. :)

Sub-zero temp is definitely a case for keeping the mittens close!

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Jan 1, 2010, at 9:49 PM

Slater - AARGH! That squeaky snow is like nails on a chalkboard! It's 3 here in WI and we're expecting -10 tonight with -20 windchill. SO jealous of your weather!

-- Posted by koeller77 on Fri, Jan 1, 2010, at 9:16 PM


Our Nation is not authorized by a majority of the World's nations to be the World Police...nor do we have the authority to authorize ourselves to that task. However, NATO has been authorized by the UN to use military force in Afganistan for the purposes of seeking out and apprehending Al Queada. Al Queada is now based in Pakistan. It is important to note that we were never attacked by the former Government of Afganistan nor were we ever in danger of an invasion by the Afgan people or the former Afgan Government.

In addition, while we may not like the way other governments treat their people or how they operate their Nation it never-the-less remains the responsibility of the people of that Nation to make what ever governmental changes they feel are necessary. Frankly, as history has shown us over and over again (French Revolution, Russian Revolution of 1917, Chinese Revolution, Iranian Revolution) no government can ignore the will of the people for long. When the people of a nation decide in mass that the government has to go....it goes. It certainly is not our responsibility nor is it our place to invade their Nation and dictate to them what they must and must not do within their own borders or how they should structure their government.

We have wasted American lives in Afganistan for 8+ years now and all we have to show for it is a corrupt government in Afganistan, and multiple violations of the Geneva Conventions including attacking and making war upon non-combatent civillians, torture, murder of civillians, prisons full of accused who have yet to see a day in court. Do you really think the Afgan people would vote to keep foreign occupation forces in their country given the state of affairs there now? I don't. In fact I bet if you asked the Afgan people the majority would say "GET OUT OF OUR COUNTRY."

As to your cousin...its a **** shame he was injured in an unwinable war on a Nation that has done nothing to us. I blame the Republicans and the Democrats. After all it was the Republicans who rushed us into the war in Afganistan, lied us into war in Iraq, and it is the Democrats who are now escalating the war in Afganistan.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jan 1, 2010, at 6:54 PM

Pressman, that was a great video post! Thanks!

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Jan 1, 2010, at 4:15 PM

"Number of U.S. soldiers killed in Afghanistan doubles in 2009"


These foreign wars are pointless. Senators...end these wars!!!!

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Jan 1, 2010, at 2:50 PM

This weather brings back memories for me, too, Slater. I grew up in northeast Iowa, and for years I delivered the Des Moines Register, a morning paper. Got up at 5:30 every morning, crunched and squeaked and slogged through the snow, hands numb and brittle, making it a challenge to fold papers. I remember the delightful pain of frozen hands and feet slowly thawing.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Fri, Jan 1, 2010, at 1:12 PM

I was just looking at the temperatures forecast for that area and wondering if most are huddled around the heat source.

I've been in south-central Texas for nearly 30 years now, and I'm having a hard time remembering just what single-digit temperature is like. Don't think I'm flaunting our climate here, but today's high is expected to be around 70. Seldom is it ever at 32 degrees F or below.

I do remember one wintery Saturday morning, while I was spending the weekend at home in Slater. I went out about 9am after hearing that the temp was -21, to see if my car would start, and of course it didn't. I had it towed to Rice's Standard service station and put inside to thaw for a few hours.

One very fond memory I have of bone-chilling times is how the powdery snow would squeak under foot when the temp was well below freezing. Why I liked that sound so much I can't say, but I really enjoyed walks during those conditions.

Can't say if I'd still feel the same about it now. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Jan 1, 2010, at 1:05 PM

Happy New Year Saline Countians, here and elsewhere!

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Fri, Jan 1, 2010, at 12:29 AM

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