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Speak Out August 23 to Septmeber 21, 2009

Sunday, August 23, 2009

The Marshall Democrat-News welcomes views or questions on any issue. We hope you'll express yourself freely and responsibly. We reserve the right to exclude entries that we deem disrespectful, threatening, obscene or in other ways objectionable.

Past Speak Out conversations


Comments
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Dr. K.E. Warren, drove my parents and little sister to Children's Mercy Hospital, Kansas City, from the Marshall Square back in the 1950's.

My dad talked about it quite a few times. Ol' Doc made an impression with his driving skills as much as his doctoring skills.

Doc Warren, saved my sister's life that day by taking extreme measures at great risk to himself. (and possibly others) but it worked out like it does in the movies.. the good Doctor saved my sister's life against some very bad odds of doing so.. epic..

A Buick Roadmaster, Straight 8, as I remember.. my dad always had Buicks after that..

anyway, Doc Warren's, driving impressed him as much or more than what that big old Buick did at over a hundred miles an hour up 24 hyway.

24 wasn't the road you know today. Thru Lexington and up the old river trail.. that Buick probably weighed about two and a half tons.. flying over rough, narrow, crooked roads, thru every town and country stop sign, Doc Kenneth Warren, and Buick Motorcars, thoroughly impressed my folks that day and for years later..

-- Posted by Third Child on Mon, Sep 21, 2009, at 2:56 PM

Eric,

Please Please Please start a new speak out this one is even slow on my conection.

-- Posted by Gal66 on Mon, Sep 21, 2009, at 2:21 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Your wish is my command. Consider it done!

Thanks Eric for links to articles on the repurposing efforts for the Brunswick Building. Especially for the 2005 article with picture of old Fitzgibbon hospital. It triggered a "Smellovision" moment:)

Slater I remember the Lockwood name. A writer to the local paper describing the rapid response of a NC small town doctor, "you could hear his car's tires, screeching away from his office near the court house." Before EMT...hey?

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Mon, Sep 21, 2009, at 2:12 PM

Thanks for the story links, Eric. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Sep 21, 2009, at 2:04 PM

Upsedaisy, I wouldn't be surprised if the good doctor thought he needed extra cash. I never had any more colds than the next kid, in fact, probably fewer. It was Dr. Lockwood, who was famous for missing that first curve north of the 41-240 junction. Three times he knocked down a telephone pole in the same location. :) Guess he was always in too much of a hurry to get to the hospital.

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Sep 21, 2009, at 1:34 PM

ieatsuperglue is right. The old hospital is home to PahloArt Gallery and Refinery and Kazoos!! children's art museum. Pat O'Hanlon and Dee Yoh are resident leaders of the effort to keep the old hospital going.

A few stories:

www.marshallnews.com/story/1095943.html

www.marshallnews.com/story/1151557.html

www.marshallnews.com/story/1165473.html

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Mon, Sep 21, 2009, at 1:10 PM

It's not the Texas law

"Alex also talks with Andrew B. Einhorn, faculty member at Georgetown University and an expert in the fields of strategic communications, environmental management, and public health. Einhorn wrote recently about a new federal program run through the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration that

may soon make it legal and commonplace for cops

*nationwide to forcibly take blood samples from drivers."

Alex also covers the news and takes your calls

http://www.infowars.com/listen.htm

-- Posted by Third Child on Mon, Sep 21, 2009, at 12:52 PM

iesg, thanks for the info. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Sep 21, 2009, at 12:42 PM

Gertrude Stein famously described Oakland CA, "There is no there, there." Glad to know there maybe some "there" left in the old Fitzgibbon hospital. Slater do you reckon the doctor took your tonsils out to make money?:) My husband's Step-Great Grandfather was a country doctor in Lincoln (MO). My husband (like) many of us had many colds as a child. There were a lot of tonsils removed in the hopes of cutting down on the colds. When asked for advice, GG who had been in the first graduating class of his medical school, offered this advice, "Son, today's doctors know only this much (holding up a thumb and forefinger slightly apart) more than the witch doctors). DON'T let them take your tonsils out."

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Mon, Sep 21, 2009, at 12:22 PM

The law TC is speaking of allows blood samples to be taken from drunk drivers, not just any driver. And it's a law in Texas:

http://www.24-7pressrelease.com/press-re...

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Mon, Sep 21, 2009, at 12:17 PM

Slater,

The old hospital building is now used to teach you childeren things.(painting and drawing) I also think there is more there.

-- Posted by ieatsuperglue on Mon, Sep 21, 2009, at 12:01 PM

tc,

Well, I guess your challenge for me to call in to Alex Jones' radio show is your response to my olive branch.

I genuinely welcome a conversation with you that doesn't involve posts from Alex Jones, prisonplanet, infowars, etc.

Can we talk about something that involves your everyday life, your likes and dislikes? We already know your stand on politics and vaccines. Maybe we could discuss a different topic.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Mon, Sep 21, 2009, at 11:50 AM

Thank you one and all for the street information. A recent question about a street in Slater has had me thinking about streets, first those in Slater, and then those in Marshall.

Something I realized a few years ago regarding street names and locations is that I never really paid any attention to street names growing up. I knew where I wanted to get to, and I did, not considering which streets I navigated to get to my destination. A good product of small-town living for me. :)

So then I was thinking about the courthouse and the streets on its four sides, and that prompted my question.

OKR's explanation about the addresses between North and Arrow Streets started me wondering, so, out of curiosity I looked up the address for the First Baptist Church, knowing its location, and I saw that it has/had an address of 78 South Odell.

Am I right in thinking that Brunswick is the street on the west side of the old hospital building? What's happened to that building now that a new hospital has been built? I had my tonsils removed in that old hospital when I was 10, the only time I was ever a patient there. :)

Anyway, thanks for the clarification.

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Sep 21, 2009, at 11:49 AM

Live interview with Dr. Len Horowitz, today on Alex Jones radio show

Horowitz recently filed lawsuits and released evidence in legal affidavits that leaders of a private global biotechnology "trust" are behind the pandemic flu, including its origin and alleged prevention via vaccinations. Alex also talks with Andrew B. Einhorn, faculty member at Georgetown University and an expert in the fields of strategic communications, environmental management, and public health. Einhorn wrote recently about a new federal program run through the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration that may soon make it legal and commonplace for cops nationwide to forcibly take blood samples from drivers. Alex also covers the news and takes your calls.

I'll also add that Alex puts people that disagree with him to the head of the line on callers. Just tell them that you disagree and get right on the air. Live. Have your argument ready. Don't waste everyone's time, make your points and stand back.

Hatful, YOU should call in and make YOUR case. Just let us know which anonymous caller name you choose so we can give you proper credit for taking Alex Jones down with your well reasoned logic, reason and facts.

On air live. Listen: http://www.infowars.com/listen.htm

-- Posted by Third Child on Mon, Sep 21, 2009, at 11:25 AM

The original numbering system was based on the middle of the courthouse. Court Street is the only surviving street from the early days. Imagine the other three streets being still in existence. This is where the numbers started.

What streets are used now? I don't know. I guess it has not bothered me enough to ask and find out. I guess you could say I don't much care.

Have a good day.

-- Posted by red dog on Mon, Sep 21, 2009, at 9:08 AM

* while I voted for President Obama, I do not consider him to be a messiah nor do I worship him*

'Within the narrow parameters of space allowed'

"The argument that the two parties should represent opposed ideals and policies, one, perhaps, of the Right and the other of the Left, is a foolish idea acceptable only to the doctrinaire and academic thinkers. Instead, the two parties should be almost identical, so that the American people can "throw the rascals out" at any election without leading to any profound or extreme shifts in policy." ~ Carroll Quigley, Tragedy and Hope

Mike Gaddy's perspective:

"A great majority of Americans refuse to accept the fact both parties are controlled by the same power cabal, just as Professor Carroll Quigley pointed out in his book, Tragedy and Hope. Instead, they embrace the concept of party politics over those of individual freedom and liberty. The paradigm of supporting your party or candidate of choice, even when they are involved in unconstitutional and/or criminal activities, takes on greater priority than supporting the Constitution or liberty itself. Party first, regardless of the crimes committed, has relegated this country to being led by criminals and the loss of individual liberty."

More:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/gaddy/gaddy68...

-- Posted by Third Child on Mon, Sep 21, 2009, at 9:00 AM

I've always heard that Arrow St. was the North/South dividing line and the Courthouse itself is the East/West divider.

-- Posted by writerintraining on Mon, Sep 21, 2009, at 7:58 AM
Response by Geoff Rands/Staff writer:
According to City Inspector Mike Morgan, the courthouse was once the dividing line for both north/south and east/west addresses, but that has since been changed to Arrow Street as the north/south line and Lafayette Avenue as the east-west line.

This change was made before recent address changes began due to the implementation of Saline County Enhanced 911.

Now that I've had a chance to sleep on what Gray Hair wrote, I've had an idea. He pointed out that tc can meaningfully contribute to a discussion -- other than one on vaccines and politics. I decided that maybe I've been a bit heavy-handed in my responses to tc.

Instead of hammering away, I would like to say the following in all sincerity.

TC -- hello. I'm glad to meet another person in this online community. How are you today? What do you do for a living? Do you have any hobbies? Do you have children? How old are they? I would like to get to know you better.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Mon, Sep 21, 2009, at 7:38 AM

Slater I believe that the east/west street that divides the city into north, and south is Arrow, but it might be North Street. Arrow is on the south side of the court house, and North street is on the north side of the court house. Third choice, it might be both of those streets. The addresses on the streets running north and south that are between Arrow, and North could have single or double digit numbers. All the n/s streets north or south of the square could have three digit addresses starting with one hundred.

Is that sufficiently confusing?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Sep 21, 2009, at 1:00 AM

Thank you oneofmany. I will check it out.

I suppose cursive handwriting is also on the way out.

Here is what happens when history is not taught. :)http://pavlovianobeisance.com/beck_stupid.htm

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Sep 21, 2009, at 12:47 AM

Slater, I think your question about which east-west Marshall street determines when North and South streets change is an interesting one. I believe it has been raised with the new number issues that have been so controversial. I was told Lafayette was the original east/west street used to switch from north to south. I think after Odell Street became so prominent, it was used more often. So to answer your questions, who knows??? Any ideas, Eric???

-- Posted by oneofmany on Mon, Sep 21, 2009, at 12:40 AM

Ok Reader, your concern about high school students not being able to name the first U.S. president is appalling, but not uncommon. Many states are not pushing social studies like they once did because it is usually not tested by states for their requirements to meet the obligations of "No Child Left Behind", the Bush administrations educational project. Some school districts in the state of Missouri are hardly teaching history because it isn't tested on the MAP test. I'd check with your state and see if they have the same policy.

-- Posted by oneofmany on Mon, Sep 21, 2009, at 12:32 AM

In my adopted state of Oklahoma every county, yes every county voted for John McCain. It is extremely unusual if not without precedent for a state to fail to deliver the votes from any counties to the Democratic Party's candidate for president.

I do not know if there is a connection, or not, but seventy five percent of the high school students in Oklahoma could not name the first president of the United States. http://www.news9.com/global/Story.asp?s=...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Sep 21, 2009, at 12:16 AM

Slater, hope the game is still holding your interest. Do you remember the Alka Seltzer commercial from the late 60s, "I can't believe I ate the whole thing" said the doleful looking chap after consuming multiple Mama Mia's meatballs?

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Sun, Sep 20, 2009, at 11:47 PM

Lotss of guesses about the cause(s) of autism.

I had a book of readings for an experimental psychology class from over 40 years ago, and one of them was about a boy who was called Joey, The Mechanical Boy. Everything he did was predicated on mechanics and the use of mechanical devices, mostly in drawings he'd made to depict his thoughts. A very intriguing report.

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Sep 20, 2009, at 11:18 PM

Interesting sidebar on "Speakout" links to state news and a report on a crowd of 2,000 which gathered in O'Fallon, MO to ask for more coverage of autism costs by insurance companies. Would have been an interesting place to have an exit poll on the crowd's views on "public options".

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Sun, Sep 20, 2009, at 10:57 PM

Tonight's Cards-Cubs game is very exciting! St. Louis just tied the score in the bottom of the 8th, so maybe it'll turn out like the first two in this weekend series.

I said I was going to ignore the final 15 games, but that lasted about one game. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Sep 20, 2009, at 9:58 PM

T.C., I will take a shot at it within the narrow parameters of space allowed for comments.

First of all, while I voted for President Obama, I do not consider him to be a messiah nor do I worship him. He is our President and whether you or anyone else may agree or disagree with his politics or policies, I believe our country is best served if we support him as I believed we should have supported all our presidents that have been elected to lead us.

Specifically, the three provisions of the Patriot Act up for reauthorization are the "Lone Wolf", the Business Records and the Roving Wiretaps provisions.

The "Lone Wolf" provision only applies to non-US persons. While the other two provisions may apply to U.S. citizens in certain circumstances, all three of these provisions still require the Government to make application to a FISA court for approval prior to acting. It was the application of these and other provisions of the Patriot Act without FISA court approval in the previous administration that concerned me.

While I do not always agree with you on all your positions, I do agree with some. I know from previous discourse with you concerning Alta Patton that you can be respectful and thoughtful.

Again, I respect your opinion on this subject. I believe it is not always what you say, but how you say it that troubles others who read this blog.

Respectfully, GH

-- Posted by Gray hair on Sun, Sep 20, 2009, at 9:53 PM

Upsedaisy,

You remember the shorts that were shown between movies. This thing reminded me of a movie short. Certainly not like the Pete Smith weirdies, but weird nonetheless.

I'm still laughing at your remark - I watched all of it, but I can't believe I did. :)

I guess if one tried to make a serious case for it, it could be done, but what a stretch!

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Sep 20, 2009, at 9:51 PM

Slater, I watched the whole thing:) I can't believe I did. Boff, Boffola! Better that than asking TC what Alex Jones proposes as a solution for our country's problems. A guillotine in front of Congress? I can't knit so I cannot play the role of Mad Woman of Chaillot.

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Sun, Sep 20, 2009, at 9:44 PM

"Three significant Patriot Act provisions empowering the FBI are up for renewal by a Democrat controlled Congress this year. The Democrat President has already called for their reenactment"

Obama is simply filling out the Bush, Cheney, third term. He has broken every promise he made to get elected. He blatently kicks his supporters to the curb to favor the bankers and the neocons. How do the Obamanoids continue to worship the great Messiah? How do they rationalize it? Someone please explain. NanaDot? News? Oklahoma Joe?

-- Posted by Third Child on Sun, Sep 20, 2009, at 8:57 PM

Here's another of those insipid questions to ignore:

I'm speaking of Marshall, now: Which east-west street divides the north-south streets into north and south?

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Sep 20, 2009, at 8:55 PM

Here's a short film for all you hootowls. :)

http://www.weirduniverse.net/blog/commen...

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Sep 20, 2009, at 6:51 PM

While there really isn't agreement on "hating" George Bush, there is surprising agreement that the post-Sept. 11 incursions into liberty made by the Patriot Act at Bush's demand went too far in endangering civil liberties.

Take a seat now. Breath deeply.

Three significant Patriot Act provisions empowering the FBI are up for renewal by a Democrat controlled Congress this year. The Democrat President has already called for their reenactment (note: as a Senator he voted for them). Token Democrat led opposition has appeared but Missouri Senator Chris Bond is expected to lead the supporters of the Obama Administration position and to prevail.

The betting line is that the new Congress will enact "feel good" reforms that do not impose any significant limitations on existing authority.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/20/us/pol...

-- Posted by AF Brat on Sun, Sep 20, 2009, at 5:25 PM

Yep, just might slow down the spread of the dreaded DNARD and IDS.

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Sep 20, 2009, at 5:05 PM

Dawson, you're livin' good, knowin' people in high places. :)

Yep, go for that power ball ticket.

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Sep 20, 2009, at 4:33 PM

Well, for a change I got to see some now-deleted posts before they were deleted. I'd better buy a lottery ticket. My timing is good today.

-- Posted by Dawson16 on Sun, Sep 20, 2009, at 3:37 PM

TC,

Glenn "Cry Baby" Beck is nothing but an opportunist...and not a particularly bright one at that. Much like Rush Limbaugh, Beck has revealed himself to be a committed and outspoken racist pig, and like Limbaugh, Beck has thoroughly discredited himself over and over again.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Sep 20, 2009, at 3:14 PM

Third Child,

I agree that Glenn Beck is a tool in the first order. Everyone at FOX is for that matter but wouldn't a link have been enough?

This is a discussion board, not the Third Child Show. It's nice to know that you have mastered the cut and paste technique but maybe in the future you could actually discuss a subject based on what you think, not just something someone else wrote.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Sep 20, 2009, at 3:13 PM

Eric,

I think the new poll question is great! I have cast my vote and I look forward to the final results.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Sep 20, 2009, at 3:06 PM

"Glenn Beck's a Libertarian Now"

It's not enough that Fox News' resident COINTELPRO operative Glenn Beck led the charge and sabotaged the election campaign of Ron Paul -- calling him a kook and his supporters dangerous terrorists -- now he is determined to sabotage and take down libertarians.

Glenn Beck is like Midas -- except everything he touches does not turn to gold. It turns to another unmentionable substance.

In the video clip below, taken from Beck's radio show last week, the great actor and PSYOP chameleon apologized to the libertarians for dissing them in the past. He now claims that he is one of them and says he'd like to re-examine the issues he used to criticize and sabotage Ron Paul's election campaign.

Glenn Beck is not a libertarian. He is an operative working for the Pentagon and probably takes his orders from the Army's Psychological Operations Command. His assignment is to destroy the libertarian, constitutional, and patriot movements.

Beck's so-called 912 Project was designed to discredit the Tea Party demonstration in D.C. earlier this month -- a movement already substantially co-opted by establishment Republicans -- and give so-called "progressives" a chance to malign and denounce the movement and characterize it as a Republican attempt to undermine Obama and the Democrats. In other words, steer it back into the safe zone of the false right-left paradigm and prevent it from actually accomplishing anything.

Beck's sudden reaffirmation of his supposed libertarian roots arrived a couple days after Alex Jones released his open letter imploring Beck to "be on the right side of history" by using his growing public platform to tell the truth "rather than exploiting it to deceive grass-roots conservatives and libertarians into following a re-birth of the neo-con agenda that Beck has embraced all along," as Paul Joseph Watson wrote on September 15.

Beck's target is now the libertarians and constitutionalists. Libertarians need to stand up and denounce Beck as a government agent and actor working for the neocons at Fox News. He needs to be outed before he destroys the only viable political movement opposed to the government

http://www.infowars.com/glenn-becks-a-li...

-- Posted by Third Child on Sun, Sep 20, 2009, at 2:59 PM

Wow, Third Child... you have an e-temper. You need an e-break. Too much time online. Hope you don't e-hit someone. Please Google "chill pill", download program, and run.

-- Posted by ieatsuperglue on Sun, Sep 20, 2009, at 2:30 PM

** you have repeated yourself without end, usually, but not always, endorsing opinions that I find preposterous. To me you are now the human version of my broken watch. I know what you say, I don't need to keep reading it.**

Oklahoma, (for some reason I want to call you Joe)..please clarify what words you don't want to hear, or phrases, so I'll know what you're talking about, eh?

Please make a list. Print three copies, sign 'em, fold three ways and shove 'em .. in the mailbox.. I'll see what I can do.. for you..

-- Posted by Third Child on Sun, Sep 20, 2009, at 2:12 PM

I am an omnivorous reader, and seldom skip reading anything that falls within my line of vision (I might miss something important, call it compulsive if you will).

However, I am reminded that even a broken watch is right twice each day. That doesn't mean that I have to keep looking at it.

That's it Third Child, you have repeated yourself without end, usually, but not always, endorsing opinions that I find preposterous. To me you are now the human version of my broken watch. I know what you say, I don't need to keep reading it.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Sep 20, 2009, at 1:50 PM

Third Child,

Let me get this straight. Now there is a conspiracy involving the poll here at MDN?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Sep 20, 2009, at 12:50 PM

Well, I, for one, am shocked and grieved that anyone would imagine our polls are anything less than highly scientific. I am worried, though. Every time we have a poll that has 667 votes or more, it's quite evident that the number 666 has appeared shortly before. I've lain awake many nights, deeply concerned that the number would be reached whilst I was sawing logs in another room. And now I find out it's been happening all the time without my knowledge.

I am chagrined.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sun, Sep 20, 2009, at 12:35 PM

"Crooked polls."

You just want something to complain about. It's just a poll, no need to be mad. It really don't matter to a hill of beans.

-- Posted by ieatsuperglue on Sun, Sep 20, 2009, at 11:58 AM

No the poll is not the problem, the people running it are the problem. I'm not talking about Eric but the lab technicians above him.

Papers shouldn't be running crooked polls.

-- Posted by Third Child on Sun, Sep 20, 2009, at 11:56 AM

"You have already voted from the same machine within the last 24 hours. "

If you vote more than once. Dang, busted. Better go vote from another computer. Hahaha.

-- Posted by ieatsuperglue on Sun, Sep 20, 2009, at 11:50 AM

I just added a new poll.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Sun, Sep 20, 2009, at 11:49 AM

Ha ha...yes, that's it, Eric. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Sep 20, 2009, at 11:45 AM

Well Hat, in the first place, surveying opinions online violates the fundamental tenet of randomness, so these online polls are intended to be fun (I hope that's the point), because the results are meaningless.

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Sep 20, 2009, at 11:43 AM

Editor Crump,

Is it my imagination, or did the poll questions used to have a humorous overtone and maybe spoof some things on occasion?

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Sep 20, 2009, at 11:34 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
You mean like this one, from several years ago:

Which of Santa's lists are you on?

* Naughty: 62.7% (74 votes)

* Nice: 37.3% (44 votes)

The poll is not the problem. The people who vote multiple times to skew the results are the ones that mess up the poll.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Sun, Sep 20, 2009, at 11:31 AM

How about this poll question:

"Who actually watched the President's speach on health care?"

1: Just myself.

2: My spouce and I.

3. My whole family.

4. The family pet and I.

5. Not me, had something else to do.

-- Posted by ieatsuperglue on Sun, Sep 20, 2009, at 11:16 AM

*I'd welcome suggestions for poll questions!*

My suggestion would be to stop running crooked polls. Do a poll on it.

Question: Crooked polls

Choices

1. You are against them

2. You are for them

Choose one

-- Posted by Third Child on Sun, Sep 20, 2009, at 11:15 AM

Yep, TC, a person can vote once each day in these online polls.

I saw the other day where this new school building issue is going to be the subject of an online poll, and that disturbs me if the question(s) is/are left up more than one day.

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Sep 20, 2009, at 10:48 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
One thing I've noticed: The ratio doesn't usually change dramatically after the first day or two, so what I suspect we see after a couple of weeks is a rough idea of the number of people who care enough to keep voting (vote early, vote often!) rather than any shift in general views. I'd like to change the poll more frequently, but it often gets lost in the shuffle. I'd welcome suggestions for poll questions!

Wow. I checked to see if you could double vote on the Obaminators' speech. It looks like you can vote more than once. It also came up 666 in number of votes. Coincidence or the work of the devil.. you decide..

snapshot

Fog/Mist ~ 65F

High: 75F ~ Low: 59F

HomeNewsSportsOpinionBlogsObituariesText AlertsWhat's HappeningCouponsClassifiedsRSSDid President Obama's speech Wednesday night about health care reform affect your views?

*I was opposed to his plan but now may support it: 3.3% (22 votes)

*I was in favor of his plan but now may oppose it: 0.8% (5 votes)

*I was opposed to his plan and remain opposed: 63.4% (422 votes)

*I was in favor of his plan and remain in favor: 21.8% (145 votes)

*I was unsure before and I remain unsure: 10.8% (72 votes)

666 votes cast

-- Posted by Third Child on Sun, Sep 20, 2009, at 10:42 AM

I have found prisonplanet and infowars to be horrible sites full of distortions, spin and outright misinformation.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Sun, Sep 20, 2009, at 8:40 AM

I have found snopes to be a horrible hack site full of distortions, spin and outright misinformation.

-- Posted by Third Child on Sun, Sep 20, 2009, at 8:31 AM

Five H1N1 Flu Lies Told by the Conspiracy Theorists

full explanation available at snopes.com

Lie #1 -- The CDC has warned that the H1N1 is wiping out villages in Asia and will kill 60% of the U.S. population.

Lie #2 -- News about the H1N1 cases in New Orleans has been suppressed to avoid interfering with attendance at the Jazz Festival.

Lie #3 -- A prophecy that a black man would occupy the White House "when pigs fly" ties the Obama presidency to the H1N1 flu.

Lie #4 -- That upcoming cases of H1N1 is going to be worse than the average winter.

Lie #5 -- That the vaccines aren't voluntary.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Sun, Sep 20, 2009, at 8:25 AM

1. Dr. Leonard Horowitz

Among former dentist Horowitz's better-known titles are Deadly Innocence: Solving the Greatest Murder Mystery in the History of American Medicine (1994), in which he claims that Kimberly Bergalis' dentist, David J. Acer was a pedophile and a serial killer who used HIV as his murder weapon; and Emerging Viruses: Aids & Ebola - Nature, Accident or Intentional? (1996), which advances the theory that AIDS and Ebola were engineered by the U.S. government with biological warfare and genocide in mind. As an author, the themes he has taken up over the years have moved away from public health advice related to dentistry, and on to general health-related conspiracy theories, opposition to vaccination, and New Age therapies, with elements of numerology and Christian apocalyptic prophesy.

In 2004, the FDA sent Horowitz a letter of warning regarding his marketing of supposed remedies for SARS.

On his website, he writes: "The rapidly evolving World War III--a "holy war" against "terrorism"--has cast frightened Americans into a microbial abyss. "White collar terrorists," allied with pharmaceutical industrialists (the Bible calls them Satanic "sorcerers"), manipulate media moguls for manufactured madness (i.e., managed chaos) from their shadowy Wall Street and White House tombs."

2. Sherri Kane

Both of her listed website connect with versions of Horowitz's website. One takes you to a site that is selling silver as a cure-all for health problems (Horowitz's name is all over the page) and the other takes you to a site that has it's main focus on quotes by Horowitz. I can find no articles written by her -- interesting for an investigative reporter, huh? And it appears that she is Dr. Horowitz's media contact -- she is listed as the person to call if you want Horowitz to come give a talk. Sounds like a secretary to me.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Sun, Sep 20, 2009, at 8:11 AM

"Ten Swine Flu Lies Told by the Mainstream Media"

Full article at:

http://www.infowars.com/ten-swine-flu-li...

Outline of 10 bullet points:

Lie #1 -- There are no adjuvants used in the vaccines

Lie #2 -- The swine flu is more dangerous than seasonal flu

Lie #3 -- Vaccines protect you from swine flu

Lie #4 -- Vaccines are safe

Lie #5 -- The vaccine isn't mandatory

Lie #6 -- Getting a vaccine shot is a good bet on your health

Lie #7 -- The vaccine isn't made with "attenuated live virus"

Lie #8 -- Wash, wash, wash your hands (to avoid exposure)

Lie #9 -- Children are more vulnerable to swine flu than adults

Lie #10 -- There is nothing else you can do beyond a vaccine and Tamiflu

-- Posted by Third Child on Sun, Sep 20, 2009, at 7:53 AM

"Len Horowitz Files Pandemic Charges with FBI in NYC"

Dr. Leonard G. Horowitz and Sherri Kane, an investigative journalist, have released evidence in legal affidavits that leaders of a private global biotechnology "trust" are behind the pandemic flu, including its origin and alleged prevention via vaccinations. Their documents, being sent by attorneys to the FBI this week, evidence industrialists are operating a crime ring within the "Partnership for New York City" (PNYC), and are behind the pandemic's creation, media persuasions, vaccination preparations, and health official promotions.

"David Rockefeller's trust, that engages several powerful partners on Wall Street, including media moguls Ruppert Murdock, Morton Zuckerman, Thomas Glocer, and former Chairman of the Board of Directors of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, Jerry Speyer, are implicated in advancing global genocide," Dr. Horowitz wrote to FBI directors.

"This 'partnership' controls biotechnology research and development globally. Health commerce internationally is also controlled virtually entirely by this trust that also exercises near complete control over mainstream media to promote/propagandize its products and services for the drug cartel's organized crime. This trust, in essence, makes or breaks medical and natural healing markets, primarily through the mass media companies and propaganda it wields for social engineering and market building," Dr. Horowitz wrote.. more:

http://www.infowars.com/len-horowitz-fil...

-- Posted by Third Child on Sun, Sep 20, 2009, at 7:36 AM

Yup. http://satiricalpolitical.com/?p=8883

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Sep 20, 2009, at 1:40 AM

Good night to you hootowls.

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Sep 20, 2009, at 1:29 AM

Hey OKR :)

NB - I'm somewhat surprised about a low rider vehicle in Slater, but that's cool. :) There's a low rider event here every year, around February, I believe. I haven't ever been, but each year I think about going. It would be very interesting to see all the cars.

Yep, I think you should commandeer the truck and turn it into your own design. Hot pink metal flake sounds good. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Sep 20, 2009, at 1:00 AM

I just reread what I had posted. I should clarify that I intended no slam to those of you with whom I share virtual coffee. Frankly I would rather share that with you than to share an actual one with many people. I also would rather share a cup of ersatz coffee with you than share a cup of the best with ersatz people.

Good night, and if your dreams are nightmares I hope you don't remember them.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Sep 20, 2009, at 12:55 AM

Evenin folks. I don't have much to say tonight. I just wanted to provide a link to Frank Rich commenting about Glen Beck in his Sunday Times Op Ed.

upsedaisy you are excused as I know you will enjoy the rustle of the pages in your hands with the smell of your coffee when you read it. I don't know why I read it tonight, I also like it other than virtual, same with my coffee.

Anyway here it is. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/20/opinio...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Sep 20, 2009, at 12:41 AM

Slater - Well now....seems he's gone into either a mid-life crisis or his second childhood! It's an '85 chevy caprice, that he's made into a low rider...with the air lift system, so he can raise it up and down. The windows are tinted pretty dark. Has the large wheels on it. Oh...and it's not finished yet. Has to chrome the engine and have the seats and interior redone in the future. It has been painted...very nicely...by Samson Designs of Marshall. Has a cadillac grill on it. Looks totally gangster! HA! He bought one of those d@#!...thumping stereos last weekend and it having it installed this week. Oh, well...maybe the can save on gas...blast the speakers and the vibration can carry him down the street. :). He also bought a '61 chevy pickup about 3 weeks ago. I told him if he didn't stop, I was taking it over and having it painted metal flake hot pink with bright orange flames down the side! Ha!

-- Posted by nouveaublogger on Sun, Sep 20, 2009, at 12:34 AM

One of the committee says he has a wagon we're supposed to ride in the parade. I'm curious to see the size of it, and/or the number of people who show up for our thing.

Tell me about your husband's car. A couple of my classmates have brought their cars to the display a time or two. I had an old Chevy ('38) coupe when I was in high school, and while I was gone off to the Army my mother had the junk man come and take it away. :( I'm sad now because it would be worth a few dollars nowadays.

When I read about the paint problem on the bench and tables, before I got to the end of the sentence I was picturing people walking away with paint stuck to themselves. (heh heh) Maybe you need to use something like epoxy paint. If the wood is cedar or similar that could cause the problem also.

I'm glad your extracurricular meal plans are working. I hope it keeps going for you this time.

I'll see if I can stick my head in and say hello. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Sep 20, 2009, at 12:11 AM

No, Upsedaisy, I was just being nosy. Actually, the thought occurred somewhat morbidly as I was reading an obituary and saw that a person from Slater will conduct the service. That minister happened to be born on the 29th.

Maybe I have too much time on my hands? :)

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Sep 19, 2009, at 11:58 PM

Slater,

Have certainly been busy! Decent turn out most days for lunch and after school, before games. The hubs even went down this a.m. for the kids that were getting on buses for out of town sports, let me sleep in...bless his heart! Have had a lot of work done on the outside of the building (tuck pointing) and painting is still in the process. I have to re-do the picnic tables and bench...seems I used the wrong paint, and/or primer...it's just not sticking! Getting out the sander tomorrow! HA! Then on to the inside!

Is your class going to be in the parade? My husband's daughter is having a reunion also. I think he's going to put his latest big-boy toy in the car show at the Volkfest. They're expecting about 100 old cars. I decided not to have a booth this year. People will have to get there Texas Taters elsewhere this year.

-- Posted by nouveaublogger on Sat, Sep 19, 2009, at 11:55 PM

Yes, Slater. I do. Is that your birthday? TC posted his birth weight at 10+ pounds. If I had been his Mother the "C" would have stood for Curtains.

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Sat, Sep 19, 2009, at 11:42 PM

WTF, in complete agreement. I think it was Little Miss Me who proposed that we post solutions rather than "against everything" rants. For starters, I would like to propose that all laws town, city, state and federal be written for the average American who reads at the 8th grade level.

Eric turned the page on Speak Out on Aug 23rd. Is this month's comments collection a record breaker at 928?

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Sat, Sep 19, 2009, at 11:37 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
I'll check, but it must be close.

Here's another question to ignore:

Does anyone know someone who was born on Leap Day?

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Sep 19, 2009, at 11:27 PM

Hello NB,

Yes, it sounds as if a full weekend is on the menu. It may end up being an entire year's worth of excitement all in one weekend. :)

Everything is in order, and I hope the weather will be decent.

How are things around The Little Store so far this school year? Are you getting a decent turnout for the mealtimes schedule?

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Sep 19, 2009, at 11:13 PM

Evening Slater...are you ready for your trip back home (so to speak)? Sounds as if it is going to be a really busy weekend in Slater, MO. Were you able to procure lodging? The Volkfest will be going on, also.

-- Posted by nouveaublogger on Sat, Sep 19, 2009, at 10:37 PM

Hey hootowls!

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Sep 19, 2009, at 9:48 PM

Thanks Hat Full,

But you know what? Alot of people here might not believe it but I really don't enjoy arguing with folks but when it comes to the healthcare issue and everything swirling around it all I really want to accomplish is for everyone to calm down, take a step back and and really think about the potential ramifications of doing nothing.

What is most upsetting to me is that this most important issue has been hijacked and morphed into nothing more than a partisian punching bag. It's shameful. We, the citizens of United States of America should really be embarassed and ashamed of this. I have genuine compassion for those who will suffer because of our inaction and I hope those whose chose to leave well enough alone won't have to wait until it's too late to "get it".

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Sep 19, 2009, at 9:23 PM

wtf -- I believe that last post of yours deserves a standing ovation. Bravo!

Dawson -- well, I could be wrong (it's happened before) but since Ray was applauding tc, I thought his comments about bullying and name calling were directed at anyone who has been "picking on" tc by pointing out the errors in his posts.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Sat, Sep 19, 2009, at 8:55 PM

Welcome back Ray,

I think Eric would agree that the "poll" while informative and entertaining is less than scientific. It is simply the results of those who have voted the most and probably multiple times. It can hardly be considered an accurate barometer of anything. No offense Eric.

As for "As for name-calling and bullying" can you cite some specific examples of what you consider those offenses to be?

As far as "wrong headed" opinions. Is that the opinion Ray that I would want YOU to always have the best healthcare possible regardless of your financial situation? Is that the opinion that I hope you are never in a situation where treatment for you is declined so as to maintain the bottom line for the insurance company? Is that opinion that you are never in pain and declined relief? Is that opinion that you always maintain your dignity and are cared for in a manner that we as human beings should all want for each other? Is it that I hope you never lose everything you have worked for because of illness? Is that the "wrong headed opinion" you are referring to Ray?

What exactly is it that you are afraid of? Helping your fellow man? Are you afraid someone will get something for nothing? What have you been told to be afraid of? You and I both know that this country could and should have the best healthcare for everybody even without bankrupting the nation if we really wanted to. Other countries do it every day and they are just fine. Take a minute to think about the forces behind the dissention and division not to mention the misinformation and outright lies.

These forces certainly don't care about your health and well being Ray but they do care about your wallet.Sometimes we have to look out for each other regardless of politcal leanings. As a fellow human being, I care about you Ray and I hope you never find yourself or a loved one in the type of situation as described above.

If people choose to maintain this "let them eat cake" attitude in regards to the health and well being of our fellow man then I would ask, who is the real bully? Health care costs are rising 4 times faster than the average income and are expected to be another 50% higher within the next 8 to 10 years. Think about that for a minute, Ray.

Now think about it in the context of how it would effect you or your family if you should suddenly lose coverage. Is that the America that you want?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Sep 19, 2009, at 8:34 PM

hat, you said --- "As for name-calling and bullying, that seems primarily to be the calling card of those who can't support their declarations. Those of us who can provide documentation of our assertations have no need for those strategies."

LOL, That's funny. Who did you think Ray was talking about?

-- Posted by Dawson16 on Sat, Sep 19, 2009, at 8:30 PM

TC: Save your money, dear. It doesn't appear to me that any comments from NanaDot were deleted. You might want to refresh your screen or logoff and then back on again.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sat, Sep 19, 2009, at 7:57 PM

Ray,

This is not a site only for democrats or only for republicans. It's a discussion site.

But it's also not a site for fear-based misinformation and dissemination of unsubstantiated conspiracy theories.

As for name-calling and bullying, that seems primarily to be the calling card of those who can't support their declarations. Those of us who can provide documentation of our assertations have no need for those strategies.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Sat, Sep 19, 2009, at 7:37 PM

Thanks TC for all of your posts. Some people on this site think this site is only for democrat opinions and that everybody else is misinformed and apparently not welcome to speak. I find that attitude very bigoted. I see they're the ones routinely engaged in name-calling and bullying, but that the pole on the health care issue runs solidly against their wrong-headed, opinions.

-- Posted by Ray on Sat, Sep 19, 2009, at 7:32 PM

Nonnymus,

The people sound like pirates everyday where I live.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Sep 19, 2009, at 7:20 PM

Many folk are unaware that Sept. 19 is International Talk Like a Pirate day. http://www.talklikeapirate.com/

I've been practicing: "Arrrr, Matey, I be from the IRS and I be here to collect."

-- Posted by Nonnymus on Sat, Sep 19, 2009, at 4:32 PM

Nan,

Wow! That link was almost like they knew tc personally. Scary.

As for why we keep addressing tc's posts -- it's because if tc is allowed to be the only one talking, there's the risk that someone might actually believe his misinformation. I'm trying to present refutations for his claims so that anyone reading will be able to discern what is truth and what is misleading.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Sat, Sep 19, 2009, at 4:06 PM

With regards to what NanaDot was saying. If you look up the definition of a troll on say Wikipedia you will find a definition that can be applied to only one of our members on a regular basis. You shouldn't feed the trolls.

-- Posted by broke-n-busted on Sat, Sep 19, 2009, at 3:05 PM

has there been any stories on the undeafeated freshman football team so far, yet?

-- Posted by ballin on Sat, Sep 19, 2009, at 2:50 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Not yet, no. Sounds like a good story, though.

Third Child said:

"Absolutely, Oklahoma Reader! I couldn't agree with you more. When Americans stop seeing things as left or right and look past the the smoke and mirrors, the propaganda, lies, the phoney flag waving and fear, then, and only then will this country start to heal."

Actually I agree, but remember.

All of the "smoke and mirrors, the propaganda, lies, the phoney flag waving and fear"

This can come from a lot of different places and a lot of different "websites".

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Sep 19, 2009, at 2:39 PM

East Coast, oh my God..

Wow. Nana Dot. That was quite a rant. Good work, but it's a complete fabrication that disturbs me somewhat.. why all this drama about being called a consumer?

Then there was editing and Nana Dot was gone..

Then, she was back.. no explanation.. now I'm being attacked for having the audacity of saying consumer.

Can someone fill me in on what got edited that day? The 'Nana Dot leaving the list' thing?

I would sure like to see it..

$5 reward for anyone that posts a copy of that exchange at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/salinecoun...

-- Posted by Third Child on Sat, Sep 19, 2009, at 2:01 PM

Thanks BnB

That does make a little more sense.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Sep 19, 2009, at 10:42 AM

I'm sorry but I can't help but clarify. That would be run AWAY from the kool-aid.

-- Posted by broke-n-busted on Sat, Sep 19, 2009, at 10:33 AM

Ok Third Child Warren Narron,

You are obviously fairly new to the site or you would know that the fight about my screen name has already been waged. I won. It's meaning is open for interpretation but I can assure you that it was born from my reaction to reading alot of posts such as yours. That being said Warren, I ain't changing it. Either deal with it or ignore my posts altogether so as not to offend your fragile sensibilites.

On to Alex Jones.

You said about myself and Kathy:

"that have admitted that they would never even go to Alex Jones' sites"

Can you show me specifcally where either of us said that? I have been to the sites. Infowars, PrisonPlanet and have even done my own research into Alex Jones. That is how I have formulated my opinion that some, if not all of info on those sites should be greeted with caution. I never said that Alex Jones, or Warren Narron don't bring up valid points or subjects worthy of discussion. However, in your world it would seem that if I choose not to place all of my faith on the claims of one man and his website then that makes me ignorant.

I feel just the opposite is true. Ok, I'm ignorant. I suppose if I had to choose I would rather be ignorant than gullible but then I again what's the difference? Maybe what I find most questionable would be his motivation.

It's the internet, Warren. 99.99% of absolutely everything on the interent should be greeted with caution. Maybe I should have been more clear about that in my criticisms of Alex Jones,etc. You seem like a very intelligent person Warren, don't let yourself be hijacked by emotion or hubris. I certainly think you mean well and your heart is in the right place but seem to have an almost religious attachment to Alex Jones.I find that troubling. Let me ask you this, have you ever purchased anything from any of those websites? If you have just remember, that's what it's all about. If you havn't, why not? Is his word worthy of your worship but not your wallet?

Step back, take a breath and if they offer you any kool-aid.......run. Have a nice day Warren.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Sep 19, 2009, at 9:57 AM

tc,

You have frequently requested that people support their arguments -- that they include a link or source of information.

When researching the veracity of information, I have frequently found that if I can find an independent source that supports the original source, then there is more chance that the information may be correct. Of course, I have to make sure that the collaboration is from a reliable source itself.

So here is my challenge to you : provide a reliable, independent source that backs up what Alex Jones or Dr. Deagle say. You keep posting links from Alex Jones primarily (prisonplanet) without providing supporting documentation from any agencies or even individuals (other than the ones who work for Alex Jones or already buy into his conspiracy theories).

I would like to see that!

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Sat, Sep 19, 2009, at 9:19 AM

TC: You said "That would be people like yourself and Kathy, that have admitted that they would never even go to Alex Jones' sites. That, sir or madam, is fear, plain and simple."

This statement is not true. I've been to Jones' site and to some of the others you've posted links to, and what I found there is alarmism, hate- and fear-mongering, and a huge dose of utter nonsense that no one should give credit to. One visit is all it takes to see that.

Afraid? Certainly not of you or Alex Jones or "the truth," whatever that may be. Ignorant? I think not. Certainly no more ignorant than any other person on the planet, but absolutely smart enough to see that Alex Jones and the rest of the others like him are making a mockery of decency and civility everywhere.

You can believe anything you want to believe. My failure to agree with you doesn't indicate ignorance OR fear, or, in fact, anything other than disagreement.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sat, Sep 19, 2009, at 9:01 AM

"Health Care Reform Is More Corporate Welfare"

Ron Paul, Campaign For Liberty

Saturday, Sept 19th, 2009

Last Wednesday the nation was riveted to the President's speech on healthcare reform before Congress. While the President's concern for the uninsured is no doubt sincere, his plan amounts to a magnanimous gift to the health insurance industry, despite any implications to the contrary.

For decades the insurance industry has been lobbying for mandated coverage for everyone. Imagine if the cell phone industry or the cable TV industry received such a gift from government? If government were to fine individuals simply for not buying a corporation's product, it would be an incredible and completely unfair boon to that industry, at the expense of freedom and the free market. Yet this is what the current healthcare reform plans intend to do for the very powerful health insurance industry.

The stipulation that pre-existing conditions would have to be covered seems a small price to pay for increasing their client pool to 100 of the American people. A big red flag, however, is that they would also have immunity from lawsuits, should they fail to actually cover what they are supposedly required to cover, so these requirements on them are probably meaningless. Mandates on all citizens to be customers of theirs, however, are enforceable with fines and taxes.

Insurance providers seem to have successfully equated health insurance with health care but this is a relatively new concept....

More at

http://www.prisonplanet.com/health-care-...

-- Posted by Third Child on Sat, Sep 19, 2009, at 8:53 AM

WTF and Alex Jones

"AMEN KATHY, These peope are making a very comfortable living by playing to the fear and ignorance of the paranoid." wtf

You are most definately wrong about Alex Jones, Mr, what the f.. ever your name is, but I'm glad you brought this up and used the words that you did as I see now that those descriptors are approved for use by the MDN.

Let's discuss them one at a time as how they apply to you.

Fear doesn't apply to Alex Jones or those that follow the thousands of leading edge articles, interviews and talks on the web sites http://www.prisonplanet.com or http://www.infowars.com/

Fear, only controls those that fear knowledge of the truth. That would be people like yourself and Kathy, that have admitted that they would never even go to Alex Jones' sites. That, sir or madam, is fear, plain and simple.

Now we move on to ignorance. As your first premise on fear was wrong, so follows your ignorance. Your fear to explore and investigate, to understand the truth sets you up for failure as a human and as a citizen because you choose to remain ignorant. Fear of the truth begets ignorance.

This isn't rocket science and no one mistakes you for a scholar. But if you are too fearful to seek the truth or too weak to view the information that others risk and devote their lives to bring you, then you are little more than a fool.

Those that remain wilfully ignorant are as much the enemy of mankind as the Malthusian murderers that that seek to enslave the globe.

They play the people against each other, like a world chess game, with moves initiated 100 years in advance of your simple minded game of checkers.

You either don't have a clue to what is going on and find comfort in these delusions of ignorance, or you are purposely working to hide the truth, the true nature of world events as they unfold.

The difference doesn't matter because the effect is the same. Fearful, ignorant people are a menace to society.

It is your right to remain ignorant and it is my right and duty to point out your ignorance. You are trapped in a prison of fear and ignorance and your elected stupidity is harming our children's future. I wish you and Kathy and others in your little gang of distractors could break out of the crippling fear long enough to seek out truth with an open mind. Our children deserve no less.

The future of the world is in our hands. We need to realize that. What is to come for generations depends on our choices today. Time is running out.

"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."

Thomas Jefferson

-- Posted by Third Child on Sat, Sep 19, 2009, at 8:38 AM

Well, how about that? Excellent, hat! I guess I should do a better job of reading the whole paper, huh?

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sat, Sep 19, 2009, at 8:33 AM

If you can stand to wait about 10 days, the Interlibrary Loan services at the Marshall Public Library will be free. They announced it in the paper this week. It will be free starting October 1. Then you could get the Zinn book or any of the Wise books.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Sat, Sep 19, 2009, at 7:55 AM

I checked the online catalog at the Marshall Library and didn't find the Zinn book. But the MPL has interlibrary loan service, which lets you get the book from another participating library for a fee of $3 per item. Interlibrary loan books usually check out for three weeks, and depending on which library it comes from, might be renewable.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sat, Sep 19, 2009, at 7:26 AM

OOPS, obviously sleep is overtaking. Trying again. "Glad you are staying the course, OK reader."

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Sat, Sep 19, 2009, at 12:45 AM

Zinn's book is available in new paperback for around $13.00 at Amazon.com. Watched Bill Boyer's Journal tonight. Usually have to fold about half way as sleep overtakes. Glad Nanadot is back (I lifted my mug of Whole Foods French Market to you AND the hummingbirds this a.m.)

Also glad you are stay the course, Oklahoma Reader.

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Sat, Sep 19, 2009, at 12:25 AM

The you tube link that NanaDot provided is just the tip of the iceberg. If you are wondering what other real history (if there is such a thing)you were not taught in highschool, nor college, you need to pick up a copy of Howard Zinn's "People's History of the United States. If you have not read it you have not subscribed to a fair and balanced history of our country.

You may not agree with everything in it, but you will be rewarded with thought provoking, disabusing information.

I wonder if it is available at either of the two local libraries?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Sep 18, 2009, at 11:50 PM

Speaking of "Faux" News.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Sep 18, 2009, at 9:58 PM

nandot,

That was an amazing history lesson! I was blown away.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Fri, Sep 18, 2009, at 9:34 PM

Slater, the state w/only one insurance company is AL. Pres. Obama mentioned it in his speech. I believe it is BlueCrossBlueShield of AL. Speaking of AL, Richard Scrushy has been in the news again. Founder of HealthSouth Corporation, a global health care company based in Birmingham, Alabama, he is in a Federal Slammer in Beaumont, TX, a bit east of SA. When the feds went to his fancy, schmancy multimillion dollar home to seize the furnishings they found that his third wife and mother to his last five children had stripped the place before moving to Houston TX. Wonder if Eighth Child is active online?:)

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Fri, Sep 18, 2009, at 9:06 PM

nandot,

I am sure you already know that Rupert Murdoch was born and raised Australian and has since renounced his Australian citizenship and is now an American. The Aussies couldn't be happier!

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Sep 18, 2009, at 8:10 PM

NanaDot,

A history lesson I heard two or three decades ago, but one that hasn't changed much over time, listening to this guy.

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Sep 18, 2009, at 7:25 PM

Exclusive: 'You lie' Wilson kept illegal immigrant in the US; Spokesman mum:

http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/09/18/y...

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Sep 18, 2009, at 3:02 PM

Does Bill O'Reilly back public option?

http://rawstory.com/blog/2009/09/does-bi...

with video

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Sep 18, 2009, at 2:48 PM

AMEN KATHY!,

The same goes with Rush, Glenn Beck and unfortunatley for too many other lesser antagonists.

News "entertainment" at best. No more, no less.

These people are making a very comfortable living by playing to the fear and ignorance of the paranoid. It is in thier professional and financial interest to keep the pot stirred.

Then again that is all they do, period. Just like in the Wizard of OZ. "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain".

Unfortunatley, far too many of our bretheren not only lend them creedence but hang on thier every word. I think Nacy Pelosi was correct when she said those words don't always fall on balanced ears. Seriously, why in the hell would anyone feel the need to take a loaded weapon to a town hall meeting and how long before some body uses one?

Just like the NRA. Mark my words, when the next election cycle comes around, the NRA will name some left wing bogeymen who are going to come and take thier guns away. In reality the only thing that will happen is that the NRA will sell more memberships and it's minions will flock to the gun shop. Happens everytime. It's just business,folks.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Sep 18, 2009, at 2:43 PM

Slater,

Thanks for posting information about the interview with Senator Rockefeller. I think we may have found a solution to the health care impasse in his suggestion. I like the way that man thinks!

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Sep 18, 2009, at 2:37 PM

Kathy Fairchild,

Excellent comment!!!

All I can say is Right on, right on, RIGHT ON!!

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Sep 18, 2009, at 2:25 PM

Well, TC, I see we're back to square one. The article you posted says "a colleague of mine -- a nationally-syndicated newspaper columnist" quite conveniently does not name the columnist. If he or she is so bent on being informative, you'd think they would proudly attach their name to the efforts allegedly made to get this vital information published.

But, no, here we are again with the airy wave of the hand and the pear-shaped tones of conspiracy, with no one to blame (or credit) for the "facts" presented.

This, and other, similar efforts, is why no reasonable person should give credit to any of this stuff.

Alex Jones is a former disc jockey with a high school education and no medical training whatsoever. I don't think he needs any specific training or education to be a radio personality, but the idea that people ought to place any credit on anything he says, beyond its possible "entertainment" value, is ludicrous.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Fri, Sep 18, 2009, at 2:13 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ylwXOxKb...

http://www.kansascity.com/703/story/1452...

Did y'all see this today? The youtube is is the video referred to in the kcstar story.

What a great story....

M

-- Posted by missy08 on Fri, Sep 18, 2009, at 1:07 PM

A few final remarks about the Rockefeller/Rose conversation:

- Rockefeller likes the administrative efficiency of a single-payer system, but wants a public option in the bill which will act as a control on costs. He said the focus is not on diminishing service delivery as a cost-savings means, but the non-profit aspect will act as a control;

- He says the information they've gathered indicates that most likely no more than 5% of privately-insured consumers will switch to a public option; hence, the non-profit status of the independent option will act as a control over the cost of private insurance;

- States will continue to set their own rules, a point he doesn't like. He used West Virginia and Oklahoma in his example, saying that WV has a very rigorous oversight of health care outcomes, where OK doesn't put much emphasis on this aspect. This was in response to Rose's question about a person in one state buying coverage that may appear to be a better deal from another state. Rockefeller also mentioned either GA or AL (I don't remember which) has one insurance company that covers 90% of the population, and it does business however it wants.

- He's strongly in favor of doing away with the current fee-for-service billing method, citing an example of how ophthalmologists performed surgical procedures before lasers became available but still billing Medicare the same higher fee that applied to the old surgical method. He believes the fee-for-service structure is the primary cause of the current high cost of medical care.

- He mentioned how Wendell Potter's input has helped in their understanding of the underlying practices by insurance companies contributing to artificially-inflated prices, purging people from the rolls, and denying coverage all in the name of profit margins.

Side Note on Wendell Potter: He was Cigna's public relations head and quit after the daughter of a family insured by Cigna died because he personally denied the family's appeal for a costly treatment that would most likely have saved the girl's life. Now, he's been instrumental in helping legislators understand the unscrupulous methods insurance companies use to increase their profitability.

- He also talked a bit about the approx. 14,000 insurance company lobbyists and their influence on legislators who unwittingly contribute to the perpetuation of the mess because they don't understand the intricacies of the health care system. A public option would also serve to eliminate that influence.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

I believe what many people fail to realize is that reform applies only to the present system of public health care delivery (Medicare, Medicaid, VA). It has nothing to do with private insurors and all of those people who are now covered by a private plan. In fact, as Rockefeller said, a public option can only help those individuals by exerting pressure on the private carriers to lower rates.

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Sep 18, 2009, at 12:50 PM

My Dearest Warren,

Can you provide any other source than "Prison Planet" to substantiate your claim? Any other reputable source at all?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Sep 18, 2009, at 12:32 PM

I'll post a short link to an article *instead* of replying at this time. All rights reserved..

Ten Swine Flu Lies Told by the Mainstream Media"

http://www.prisonplanet.com/ten-swine-fl...

snippet:(NaturalNews) The mainstream media is engaged in what we Americans call "bald faced lies" about swine flu. It seems to be true with this issue more than any other, and it became apparent to me recently when a colleague of mine -- a nationally-syndicated newspaper columnist -- told me their column on natural defenses for swine flu was rejected by newspapers all across the country. Many newspapers refused to run the column and, instead, ran an ad for "free vaccine clinics" in the same space.

The media, it seems, is so deeply in bed with the culture of vaccinations that they will do almost anything to keep the public misinformed. And that includes lying about swine flu vaccines.

============

Wow..

-- Posted by Third Child on Fri, Sep 18, 2009, at 12:27 PM

To Spanky and Our Gang:

Who wants to be Spanky today? (I said Spanky, not spanked.)

This is further commentary on the conversation yesterday evening between Jay Rockefeller and Charlie Rose.

Rockefeller says their polling data (and I've seen it being publicly circulated in recent days) is that 20% of doctors want a single payer system, and 80% of doctors want a public option in the reform. Rockefeller is in favor of a single payer system which would be non-government operated and non-profit which in his view should force the private insurors to lower rates. He said there's a group of physicians already formed who would be responsible for the actual day-to-day operation, and there would be no legislative intrusion.

He wants a greater focus on rural service delivery and has 17 points he's introducing today, some of which address the creation of more rural facilities and incentives for doctors to work in the rural areas; additionally, he has another 17 points that he says he may want to introduce, depending on how the process goes forward over the next few weeks. He said he's hopeful for having a bill done in the next couple of months.

So, we'll see what we'll see. I'm a little more hopeful now than I was yesterday morning that maybe there's a chance for something meaningful to come out of this.

One thing he said that could be disappointing, depending on how one would interpret his words, was that this process is an intellectually-rewarding one. Some will say that he's on an ego trip, but I prefer to take it at face value and agree that a daunting challenge is solved through intellectual stimulation.

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Sep 18, 2009, at 11:19 AM

Mr.Narron: There are a couple of other points I'd like to make. You obviously believe very deeply in the information you've posted about fluoride, vaccinations and so on. That's fine - you're entitled to do that. But your deep interest in the subject doesn't, in my opinion, constitute a reason for us to drop everything else we're doing and focus on those subjects.

This is a local paper for Saline County, and while events elsewhere are on our minds, we don't always have the room to publish a great deal of information about them. I'm not speaking for the paper, but for myself, when I say that I believe the debates about the need for fluoride in our water and vaccinations for our children are not just over, but LONG over.

If our readers felt differently, I believe they would tell us and thus far, we've not seen a rise in demand for information about those subjects.

I believe also that we have given you ample time and space for you to post what you believe to be honest warnings about dangerous things. Those readers who agree with you will take action. Those of us who do not agree with you will continue with our lives.

One of us is right and the other is wrong; only time will tell, perhaps a very long time from now, who had the right story.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Fri, Sep 18, 2009, at 11:07 AM

Third Child: I often disagree with you, but I have never deleted any of your posts. And as you see, Eric has declined to remove the most recent one of mine.

I believe absolutely in your right to speak your mind, but what gives me difficulty is that your sources are most often ones that I don't trust. Prison planet, Alex Jones and the rest are engaged in what I believe is irresponsible alarmism.

When I oppose you, I am also exercising my right of free speech. And it's MY name you see, not an obscure reference to my birth order.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Fri, Sep 18, 2009, at 10:11 AM

I would like to know why there hasn't been one article or discussion of the risks to benefits ratio of the proposed vaccinations? Where is the 'fair and balanced' reporting we hear about?

I don't see it at the MDN.

When facts and documents are presented that proves the insanity of fluoride in the drinking water not one person can present an argument refuting those documents or provide documents proving *any* real benifits or efficacy to adding this toxic waste to their water. I'm trying to help you people and and the subject was censored by the editor!

Just let the record show that Warren Narron, tried to warn the people of Saline County that they are poisoning their own children for lack of information. If anyone wants to attack me personally, help yourself. Just have the backbone to sign your own name to it.

-- Posted by Third Child on Fri, Sep 18, 2009, at 9:15 AM

"I have neither the time nor the interest to stay up late to censor anyone, let alone YOU."

The record shows your history of knocking most of what I post. You admit to being censored yourself at times because you get carried away in what you write. Are you attacking someone besides me when that happens or am I the only one that causes that?

This morning I'm feeling like writing off the MDN altogether because the all the trolls. I imagine that a lot of other people have already done so.

The attacks on people in the court records are particularly distasteful to me. It reminds of bloodlust spectacles of ancient Coliseum. People throwing stones from the cover of anonymity disgusts me. If we have something to say about someone in the records then we need to sign our own name to it. If it's good enough to say it ought to be good enough to own it.

-- Posted by Third Child on Fri, Sep 18, 2009, at 8:48 AM

Hey hat.....

It was good. I am somewhat disappointed that it turned into a liberal vs conservative discussion. It seems that some folks believe that conservatives ("neocons" aarrggh) don't want better lives for all Americans. I totally disagree with that. I believe that we all have the same agenda -- just different ideas on how to reach the goal. It appears to me that liberals want bigger government and less personal responsibility. Conservatives want less government and more personal responsibility. I am sure I will be corrected if I am wrong.....

I have looked at the statistics regarding positive outcomes and universal care. I have read the horror stories (from both sides) regarding long waits for care. I don't know what is best or right. I do know my experience with family members and the VA system (government run) has not been positive. My fear is that is what we will get only on a larger scale....

I also believe one of the complexities is malpractice and litigation. Personal interest groups. There are a lot of smart cookies in the US. I would like to believe that there are folks out there that can figure this out. I don't think it can be done without physicians and nurses involved in the process. Instead of standing and arguing and plotting and crying, wouldn't it be something if a committee of about 10 legislators would visit 10 different rural hospitals for about a week.... Follow a doctor around.... Talk to patients.... Have a conversation with administration. Whoo whee! Wouldn't that be something?

M

-- Posted by missy08 on Fri, Sep 18, 2009, at 8:11 AM

Third Child: Let's be clear - I have neither the time nor the interest to stay up late to censor anyone, let alone YOU.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Fri, Sep 18, 2009, at 7:40 AM

Slater, newsacross, and Missy,

This thread about health care has been a good discussion. Here's what I don't get:

There are many nations that have universal healthcare. All of them have advantages and disadvantages. Why can't the U.S. take the best practices of each of them and use them for our healthcare?

Politicians say that the problem is so complex that even members of Congress aren't qualified to work on it?

I say throw the whole thing out and start with a brand new system.

Mind you -- I'm not saying changing who your doctor is or who you can see. I'm just saying let's start from scratch with how it's covered by the health insurance.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Fri, Sep 18, 2009, at 6:59 AM

Third Child,

Can't really help you there. I didn't see the post in question. I'm just saying that personal attacks generally seems to the reason for deletion.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Sep 18, 2009, at 5:48 AM

"Lack of insurance tied to deaths":

"Nearly 45,000 deaths a year in the U.S. are associated with lack of health coverage, up sharply from earlier estimates, a new study finds."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32882064/ns/...

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Sep 18, 2009, at 2:23 AM

Yes Slater,

that does sound promising and thanks for letting me know.

Ya know Slater, the funny part is that I don't even have a horse in this race. We already have socialized medicine here as you know. However, it troubles me greatly to know my fellow Americans are suffering under a system that routinely denies Americans medical care, and of course I worry about my grow-up children living in that system as well. I believe that no matter what happens this time around, Americans will ultimately demand a single payer system. The only question is when?

Thanks again for the good news mate.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Sep 18, 2009, at 2:10 AM

Hey hootowls!

I just listened to Sen. Jay Rockefeller talking to Charlie Rose about the ongoing health care bill makeup, and he said that the Baucus bill does not have the votes to pass, so the process continues. When asked for an estimate of time to get a bill done, he said there's no push to do it in a hurry, that maybe in two months they will have one that satisfies the holdout Democrats to get it passed. He also believes they'll (Dems) have at least one Republican (Sen. Olympia Snowe) who will vote for the right bill (she said she will not vote for the Baucus bill). Rockefeller is pushing for a public option but doesn't know if the final product will include one. He also said that health care legislation is extremely complex and that probably no more than 10% of Congress knows enough to even be involved in the creation process.

Take heart, News. Maybe something to your liking will come of this.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Sep 17, 2009, at 11:40 PM

I just said "I can't stand dishonest people."

Who does that attack?

-- Posted by Third Child on Thu, Sep 17, 2009, at 10:54 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
That's not all you said, and you directed your remarks toward another commenter.

Yes Third Child your'e right. You have uncovered the vast MDN conspiracy to censor you. Hey, I've had posts deleted too. "Excrement occurs" so to speak. Whether you like it or not this is a private blog and they do have the power to edit as they see fit.

Having a post removed is generally very rare as long as you don't make personal attacks.

Maybe you should sick Alex Jones on them so he can blow the lid off this sick and twisted, propaganda spewing, Third Child censoring, anti-American website.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Sep 17, 2009, at 10:37 PM

Third Child

Regarding Hat Fulls post about Dr. Deagle

You said:

"Again, you post pure propaganda."

Really, how can you type that with a straight face?

The good doctor's theories aside, how can you consider using his own words propaganda?

Man, I'm really getting worried about you.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Sep 17, 2009, at 10:26 PM

I'll bet $10 that Kathy is staying up late just to to personally censor me. Eric would have responded.

-- Posted by Third Child on Thu, Sep 17, 2009, at 10:18 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
It was me (I sleep sometimes :-)

I have stated several times that the information I am posting comes directly from Mr. Deagle. You obviously don't believe me.

If you go to www.youtube.com, you can see a 16 part video of William Deagle giving a talk titled Exposing the Secrets of Nanotechnology, Underground Cities, and The Alien Influence in Our History.

He is very proud of his work.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Thu, Sep 17, 2009, at 9:58 PM

By the way, tc, did you catch the bit about the dinosaur and wolves guarded the Am-Mex-Can superhighway?

You might want to rethink your defending such an obviously unhinged person. He can't even legally call himself a doctor at this point.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Thu, Sep 17, 2009, at 9:48 PM

Again, you post pure propaganda.

Put up a link to your source.

-- Posted by Third Child on Thu, Sep 17, 2009, at 9:46 PM

tc,

I could take it as a compliment that you think I have that good of an imagination!

The links to what Mr. Deagle says are too many to list. He's not ashamed of any of the comments I have posted so far -- he's the source!

Do a google search.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Thu, Sep 17, 2009, at 9:45 PM

It looks like you are just making stuff up again like you did about Alex Jones.

Where is the link to this propaganda?

-- Posted by Third Child on Thu, Sep 17, 2009, at 9:41 PM

Here's more information provided by Mr. Deagle himself:

"Nokia has figured out a way to beam a bio-coded signal directly to your DNA through its phones, to affect your physiology and insert thoughts into your mind. Nokia and Bell Technologies are staffed by NSA agents and have above-top-secret classifications for research. Cell phone companies are part of the 'dark majestic evil majesty', in other words.

The Mex-Am-Can superhighway plans call for seizure of private property. All freeways will be toll, and they will all be linked. Walls and barriers will be erected to keep people out of non-controlled areas and these areas will be stocked with wolves, dinosaurs, and other dangerous animals. If you think they can't [engineer dinosaurs], you're living in a dreamworld.

This is a global problem, but it goes beyond that because we are in a galactic war.

You see, we've had a base on the Moon and a colony on Mars since 1982. They are reached by a fleet of Aurora spacecraft, which are actually outdated Model-Ts of interplanetary travel, soon to be replaced by craft that travel above the speed of light. I learned this from an anonymous Canadian source."

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Thu, Sep 17, 2009, at 9:38 PM

Most of it comes from Mr. Deagle himself -- in interviews and on his radio show. He proudly shares all of this information.

As for his medical license being revoked, it's a matter of public record.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Thu, Sep 17, 2009, at 9:33 PM

Where's your propaganda coming from? Why didn't you provide a link?

-- Posted by Third Child on Thu, Sep 17, 2009, at 9:26 PM

Lots of interesting information about Dr. William R. Deagle. These are just the ones I found the most hilarious. There are plenty more examples of his work.

1. He claims that a soldier told him about the Oklahoma bombing before it happened. The soldier was found out and court-martialed. Deagle himself was threatened and then bribed with $35,000.00 to keep silent.

2. He claims to have been told (by the FBI) that the 9/11 attacks were going to happen as early as March 2001.

3. On August 17, 2007, Dr. Deagle's license to practice medicine in the state of Colorado is revoked.

Deagle had presecribed medications that were addictive and were toxic or reactive with the other meds he prescribed. One person died...either toxicity or whatever. Another person was in serious condition because of addiction to the meds, running out and not getting a refill from Deagle. There were roughly half a dozen cases/files reviewed by the Medical Board.

4. He moved back to Canada (where he was raised) after his medical license was revoked. Now he has his radio show.

5. On one of his radio broadcast he told the audience that no one has the right to question him.

6. He claims to have received a visitation from the Angel Gabriel. Apparently God told Dr. Deagle the following :"God said, "If you are obedient and seek wisdom in prayer tonight, I will reveal to you a great revelation. Go to your vitamin cabinet and take two specific nutrient capsules and pray until you are sound asleep, and I will send forth the angel Gabriel from the Throne Room to show you what you must tell My People!!'"

7. Gabriel then whisked Deagle off to Kosovo where he not only saw the devastation that war had brought there but also the inside of a "baroque ornate room with high ceilings and chandeliers" where Yugoslav president Slobidan Milosevic was arguing with a Russian diplomat. Before Deagle could settle in for the discussion, Gabriel hustled him off to a basement room at the White House where Bill Clinton and his advisors were gloating over the success of their effort to demonize Milosevic.

8. Bill has claimed that one reason for his "superior intelligence" is that his mother's smoking during pregnancy, which probably resulted in his low birth-weight -- just over five pounds -- had the happy side effect of increasing his neural pathways and thus his intelligence. He's also told people his first experience with other-worldly creatures occurred on Dartmouth's shores when he was visited by aliens who were following him because of his superior intellect.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Thu, Sep 17, 2009, at 9:21 PM

tc,

You better start keeping a list of what you're posted. The one about Glenn Beck and Alex Jones was already posted by you earlier this week.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Thu, Sep 17, 2009, at 8:56 PM

"Open Letter To Glenn Beck" By Alex Jones

"Be on the right side of history," talk show host tells Beck as Fox News anchor leads grass-roots conservatives astray..

http://www.prisonplanet.com/open-letter-...

-- Posted by Third Child on Thu, Sep 17, 2009, at 8:50 PM

Dr. Bill Deagle M.D. is a profile physician who dissects the lies behind the current push to cultural acceptance of designer babies, embryo harvesting and animal - human hybrids, euthanasia - on demand from the state or corporations, trans-human cyborg technology, implantable mind control chips, the National and Global ID plans with specific documented technical details.

The Nutri Medical Show unveils the secrets behind genetic nutritional science and advanced evidence - based medical wellness.

Dr. Wm. R. Deagle MD, ABFP, CCFP, CIME, AAAAAM, ACOEM, AAPM, SPPM, AAEM

American Board Family Physician

Founder of NutriMedical, 1999

www.nutrimedical.com

http://gcnlive.com/podcast/nutri_med/pca...

-- Posted by Third Child on Thu, Sep 17, 2009, at 8:47 PM

One quote from the Time article on Glen Beck:

"The old American mind-set that Richard Hofstadter famously called 'the paranoid style' -- the sense that Masons or the railroads or the Pope or the guys in black helicopters are in league to destroy the country -- is aflame again, fanned from both right and left."

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Thu, Sep 17, 2009, at 8:35 PM

Hat Full of Sky. Thanks for posting the link to the Time article on Glen Beck. I read it today. I only know the man and his "entertainment" show from clips on other programs. It was worth reading. #1 on the Time list of "most read". #2 is on dogs--so there is a second must read for dog lovers.

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Thu, Sep 17, 2009, at 8:07 PM

interesting excerpt from an article in Time Magazine, titled "Mad Man: Is Glenn Beck Bad for America?"

Beck describes his performances as "the fusion of entertainment and enlightenment" -- and the entertainment comes first. "Like Limbaugh, Glenn Beck is a former Top 40 DJ," radio historian Marc Fisher explains, "first and foremost an entertainer, who happens to have stumbled into a position of political prominence." Unlike Limbaugh, however, Beck is a "radio nostalgic," in love with the storytelling power of a man with a microphone.

Note that Beck refers to himself as "entertainment."

For the complete article, go to http://www.time.com/time/politics/articl...

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Thu, Sep 17, 2009, at 7:20 PM

Slater - Thank you for the kind offer. I am a couple of decades behind on my music collection. Almost all - if not all - of my Beatles tunes are on vinyl. My pride and joy is a half speed master copy of the white album that has only been played 4 or 5 times. I would dearly love to be able to purchase the new remastered set that has been recently made available but that doesn't fit my finances. It doesn't really matter. All of the memories that I associate with the Beatles(and other artists as well) is what is important and they can't be bought in a box set.

-- Posted by broke-n-busted on Thu, Sep 17, 2009, at 2:38 PM

mrxray,

You said:

"I would love to see the radical left portion of the democrat party move out on their own. THEN we could see their real agenda and see exactly how out of touch they are with real Americans. Neither the "left" nor the "right" wings represent middle America. So, I hope that the Leftist people move out on their own and really make a public effort to describe EXACTLY what policies they want to push for. That would be extremely beneficial to the rest of us."

Wouldn't it be fair to expect the same agenda definition from the extreme right wing as well?

or is it something other that just God, Guns and Gays?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Sep 17, 2009, at 1:40 PM

Mmm mmmm, good! Thanks and welcome to the Editor's Choice Club!

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Sep 17, 2009, at 12:05 PM

Slater,

You have officially been supplied with a "virtual" Guiness. Drink up!

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Thu, Sep 17, 2009, at 11:52 AM

Yes, welcome to the club, Hat. Eric has had to protect me from myself several times. :)

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Thu, Sep 17, 2009, at 11:51 AM

It is hard to make rational political choices when those driving the train play "hide the ball."

"The Obama administration has privately concluded that a cap and trade law would cost American taxpayers up to $200 billion a year, the equivalent of hiking personal income taxes by about 15 percent.

"A previously unreleased analysis prepared by the U.S. Department of Treasury says the total in new taxes would be between $100 billion to $200 billion a year. At the upper end of the administration's estimate, the cost per American household would be an extra $1,761 a year.

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/09/15/...

-- Posted by AF Brat on Thu, Sep 17, 2009, at 11:41 AM

Welcome to the club, Hat! I'm a long-time member myself, having had to delete my own comments on occasion.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Thu, Sep 17, 2009, at 10:59 AM

Hat Full,

The rule is that new members buy drinks for all the other members. I'm considerate of your pocket book. I'll have a Guinness 250. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Sep 17, 2009, at 10:48 AM

Slater,

I hope we on the left never reach the point where such drastic actions become necessary. However, it is becoming increasingly difficult to distinguish between the two major parties. I guess most folks probably wish they could opt out at one point or another when it comes to politics...I know I sure do.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Sep 17, 2009, at 10:43 AM

Wow! I have officially become one of the group that has had comments deleted from this list. Someone buy me a drink!

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Thu, Sep 17, 2009, at 10:23 AM

I've just reviewed some of the conversation about the health care bills and left-side Democrats joining forces with right-side Republicans to "punish" the Democratic Party (as if that's a new tactic) and I now have Cheetah's diagnosis, DNARD, so I'm opting out of this speculation masquerading as reality.

See you in the funny papers.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Sep 17, 2009, at 9:50 AM

The Health Insurance Racket:

How the insurance steals your money...a must see...with video

http://www.newshounds.us/2009/09/17/the_...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Sep 17, 2009, at 5:29 AM

mrxray,

Our agenda on the left has never been a secret.

Its very simple...we support better living and working conditions for the poor and downtrodden, the working class, and true, total equality for all Americans.

I agree that a new major party would benefit our Nation and our people. 3 major parties would offer more choices, and would ultimately decide most elections since the Democrats and the Republicans would have great difficulty forming a majority without the left. Yes, it would definitely give the American people a distinct advantage and choices they don't have now.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Sep 17, 2009, at 2:31 AM

I would love to see the radical left portion of the democrat party move out on their own. THEN we could see their real agenda and see exactly how out of touch they are with real Americans. Neither the "left" nor the "right" wings represent middle America. So, I hope that the Leftist people move out on their own and really make a public effort to describe EXACTLY what policies they want to push for. That would be extremely beneficial to the rest of us.

-- Posted by mrxray on Thu, Sep 17, 2009, at 1:53 AM

Slater,

The left has crossed party lines before. Punishment votes can be a good way of waking up party leadership.

However, there is lot of discussion amongst liberal leadership and other influential liberals about leaving the Democrats and forming a new liberal party, and while many of us may not particularly want to see that happen, we are also well aware that blue dog democrats...such as our own Claire McCaskill... often operate as an extension of the Republican Party making any significant social progress nearly impossible.

On the matter of public options, THAT WAS our compromise with the right wing. Our preference was for all medical costs to be paid entirely out of taxes with most of the money coming from savings derived from cuts in military spending as well as redirecting medicare taxes (since the old folks would at that point be equally covered under single payer and Medicare would no longer be necessary} to help fund the single payer program. We on the left compromised and agreed to give that idea up in return for a government option as well as private insurance. Now it appears that the blue dogs and conservatives have refused even the compromise position. This is unacceptable to us and may lead to a major political realignment.

If the Democrats drop the ball on this one, don't be surprised to see the left temporarily...and possibly permanently... abandoning the Democrats.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Sep 17, 2009, at 1:14 AM

A recent poll by Survey USA found that seventy seven percent of the American people preferred a public option in a new health care plan. Obviously the representatives of the rich don't give a **** what we think. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/20...

UP WITH THE PEOPLE!

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Sep 17, 2009, at 12:45 AM

Thank you Slater. Precisely UpseDaisy.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Sep 17, 2009, at 12:27 AM

Close to an oligarchy isn't it?

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Thu, Sep 17, 2009, at 12:21 AM

This old man is with you, old man.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Sep 17, 2009, at 12:15 AM

White Tornado said it well early in the last election cycle by turning the hackneyed phrase the lesser of evils to the evil of lessers. Well folks it maybe that we are stuck with a lesser, and evil is being done regarding the health care issue.

I've said it before, and will probably be saying it as long as this old man still draws a breath, we must somehow, some way expel the Corporatocracy that runs our nation. Folks this has gone waaay beyond a left vs. right issue. The sad truth is that it is all the rest of us against the three to five percent who are the ruling class in our country.

It may take a non-violent rebellion/revolution to "get er done". Massive strikes, massive marches, massive blockades.

One thing for sure, real change is not going to come from the minions of the mega-rich that pretend to represent the people's interests in Washington.

Another thing for sure, we absolutely must quit this ridiculous arguing, and fighting between Republicans, and Democrats, the left, and the right. It will be hard to accomplish because it is in the best interests of our mega-rich lords to keep us divided, and conquered. They will constantly keep things stirred, they control the media.

They want us to fuss about individual sub issues such as health care, the two wars, etc. The ONLY primary issue is that our so called representatives in Washington do not represent us. We must change that before the will of the people will ever again be carried out.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Sep 17, 2009, at 12:10 AM

Let's start emailing all of those who are up for re-election next year and tell them to get their bags packed because they're going home to stay.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Sep 17, 2009, at 12:01 AM

So, I can say I'm right if I think there's reason to believe that at least some members of Congress are as crooked as the Wall Streeters.

And here I thought the guy was mostly trying to show us the size of his ego.

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 11:56 PM

news across: the insurance companies may argue that they paid good money for the Baucus bill. $3 million to Baucus alone!

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 11:50 PM

"Senate's 10-year health fix would cost $856B"

"The bill by Baucus, Democratic chairman of the Senate panel...including requiring most people to purchase insurance coverage or pay a fine"

"The plan would be paid for with $507 billion in cuts to government health programs and $349 billion in new taxes"

"But the bill fails to fulfill President Barack Obama's aim of creating a new government-run insurance plan -- or option -- to compete with the private market."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32872749/ns/...

This so-called "health care" bill is nothing but a gift to the insurance companies.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 11:45 PM

ND: whew!

Federal recall and referendum anyone?

http://usirr.org/x/modules/xoopsfaq/inde...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 11:36 PM

There is an option for the Democrats...

...use their substantial majority and pass a health care access bill that includes a low cost, publicly subsidized public option.

They have the majority to do it with and they can use the same Senate maneuver the Republicans used to pass the tax handout to the richest 10% of our population under Bush -- which would then bypasses a Republican filibuster threat and would put the bill up for a straight up or down vote (51% carries the bill).

So its not that the Democrats can't pass a public option, but rather... they choose not too.

For the left wing of the Party this broken campaign promise is the last straw. We in the left wing of the Party have options too.

There has been considerable discussion in the left wing of splitting with the democrats and forming our own party. Since we on the left have considerable numbers (roughly 1/3 of the vote), we know that both the major parties would require our votes in order to form a majority. We on the left are well aware of the political leverage this would give us.

From the perspective of many of us on the left, the Democrats have broken almost every promise they have made to us and this is one issue we won't compromise on. We want that public option, and if we don't get it then all bets are off.

From our perspective, we had a deal with the democrats...especially on this issue.

We delivered on our part of the deal. We martialed our forces in 2006 and in 2008 and we helped the Democrats obtain a super-majority in Congress and helped them take the White House. Yet the Democrats thus far have managed to fail to deliver on their part of the deal. The troops are still in Iraq and Afghanistan, people are still losing their homes due to medical bills they can't pay, and gays are still being treated as second class citizens, racism is even more flagrant than it has been in almost 40 years, and now it looks like the democrats' health care access reform is about to make things even worse and has turned a once humanitarian goal into a big cash gift to Big Insurance. Enough is enough! If they fail to deliver on the public option then the alliance is over.

Its that simple.

If a health care public option doesn't pass, the Democrats' majority is finished.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 11:23 PM

Indeed, that's a good one.

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 11:17 PM

Slater,

Early Morning Rain sung by them has always been a favorite of mine.

-- Posted by Dawson16 on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 11:16 PM

Mary Hopkin sings it very well, too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkDOmkRwK...

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 11:14 PM

I was just thinking about the song All My Trials, by Peter, Paul, and Mary.

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 11:09 PM

Or maybe these two make 3 since Patrick Swayze died on Monday?

-- Posted by Dawson16 on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 10:57 PM

News,

The more likely case would be that many people now actively involved would drop out. Loyal Dems won't be joining the Republicans. Only people like John Connally and Ben Knighthorse Johnson do that.

Incidentally, I found the article about the corrupt politicians interesting reading, but it didn't really support the use of the word corrupt. I was expecting to read about legislators who've committed criminal acts.

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 10:54 PM

Folk group singer Mary Travers dead at 72

Actor Henry Gibson dead at 75

Great talents bith of them. I hate to see the third celebrity shoe to drop.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 10:50 PM

Have I fallen into the rabbit hole in Alice in Wonderland? Everything is curiouser and curiouser here tonight.

Welcome back, NanaDot. I'd say it's a full moon but we've already had one this month.

-- Posted by Dawson16 on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 10:18 PM

"we on the left may be joining forces with you soon."

Switching from Democrats to Republican isn't going to change anything but the rhetoric. We have to vote them all out and replace the parties with independents. I voted for a Republican once, Ron Freeman, a black man in KC running for congress. So much for calling me a racist or a Republican.. My history up to that point had been a lifelong union member, voting Democrat.

I think Freeman lost to a Rothat a Democrat, Karen McCarthy? and she embarrassed KC by ending up in some kind of scandle and had to step down.

I've never voted Republican again but did support Ron Paul as a Republican candidate. Ron is a real Republican, but the party has 'left' him.

Now Newt Gingrich calls me up regularly because I'm in the repub data base and I take great pleasure in hanging up on the spiel.

Joining the Republicans because the Democrats are worthless is not the answer. We have to throw them all out and start over.

-- Posted by Third Child on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 10:09 PM

Vote fraud seems to be systemic across the nation. Maybe the UN should send in teams of observers because of all the crooked elections here.

-- Posted by Third Child on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 9:47 PM

Slater,

I can appreciate your position on this matter, but the simple fact remains...if the Democrats pass a bill with no public option many, many, many of us on the left will temporarily join forces with the conservatives and Republicans and see to it that the Democrats lose their majority in Congress and lose the White House in 2010 and 2012.

Its now up to the Democrats to make their decision...they can use their substantial majority in Congress and do the correct thing (pass a public option) without the Republicans or face the wrath of the left wing.

Third Child

...make room...we on the left may be joining fores with you soon.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 9:45 PM

TC, you have a valid point there. Even that's out of the public control, but the local election boards across the country are the biggest problem by not providing enough of the right kind of ballots, intimidating voters, and denying others their right to cast a ballot by changing polling locations so voters couldn't find the right places.

I say this happens nationwide, but I'm really speaking about what happens down here in Texas.

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 9:32 PM

"For those actions that are unique to government functions, you must ask permission from that entity to sue."

And don't even think about suing for death or paralysis from unsafe vaccinations because big pharma has pre-emptive immunity from law suits.

Gee, I wonder why?

-- Posted by Third Child on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 9:32 PM

*I see only one recourse and that is to vote them out of office at every turn. It's the only leverage we have.*

We don't have *any* leverage as long as we have electronic voting machines. Before we can take control of Congress the "black box" voting has got to go. Only paper ballots counted and verified in the precinct will ensure that the game isn't rigged.

http://www.blackboxvoting.org/

-- Posted by Third Child on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 9:25 PM

News, did you read the full bill that was released today? I read a summary and saved a copy of the full draft, and I haven't seen anything about forcing anyone to buy some high-priced coverage. In fact, discussion about those high-end policies centered around ways to get the buyers to give them up and buy a so-called "platinum" plan that would provide the same thing for less money.

It's clear to me that we're not going to have any kind of public option. Period. No legislator is in favor of that for obvious reasons, so any attempt to talk about it to them will be falling on deaf ears.

I'm with WTF about forcing them to come down a few steps off their ivory towers, but of course that'll never happen either. I mentioned the other day that when Missouri tried imposing term limits on federal legislators the Supreme Court said states don't have the constitutional right to do so. Congress has done its best to insulate itself against any attempt by the public to impose some sort of controls on them.

Disgusting to say the least, and even in the same category as the crooks on Wall Street, in my opinion.

I see only one recourse and that is to vote them out of office at every turn. It's the only leverage we have.

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 9:02 PM

WTF,

I appreciate your comment and concerns.

However I must point out that with the Baucus plan...which will force all Americans (with the exception of ex-pats like me} to either sign up to one of Big Insurance's outrageous, unregulated-in-terms-of-price insurance policies or face crminal charges in the form of a $3000.00+ fine -- and provides no publicly subsidized option to relieve the burden of the poor and middle class -- passes the Senate, I and many, many other liberals will not only NOT vote Democrat but will in fact declare war on the Democrats. Even if that means crossing party lines and voting straight Republican Ticket in 2010 and 2012.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 8:42 PM

WTF: Regarding suits against this government, this'll make your hair stand on end.

There are some claims that can be pursued under the Federal Tort Claims Act, but that only applies to those actions that could also be pursued against a private individual.

For those actions that are unique to government functions, you must ask permission from that entity to sue.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 8:30 PM

News,

I agree with your frustration but I personally don't think I would reward the GOP with my vote regardless. Maybe your right, maybe a third party.

IMO I think that the GOP has acted like children, sore losers who have offered only hinderance and abolutely no help whatsover. I think our elected leaders have a gig that's a little too nice in that they will say and do anything to keep it.

To me the only way to really expect change is to start with iron clad campaign finance reform.

The rub however is that those very officials would never let us, the people, achieve such a hold on thier power. Shouldn't we the people have some sort of legal recourse to demand that campign finance be observed? Can we get it on a ballot? Any lawyers out there? Can we sue the federal govt? If not,why?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 8:17 PM

"Democrats now comprise majority of 'most corrupt in Congress' list"

http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/09/16/d...

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 8:07 PM

It's looking more and more like the Cardinals want to enter the post season by falling over backward into it.

I better stop paying attention for the final 15 games. Would not want to jinx them.

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 7:57 PM

When Obama and the Democrats asked us to fire the Republican Party in the Congress and the White House We the People did so beginning in 2006 and culminating in 2008. In return we asked the Democrats for certain things, an end to American involvement in the Iraq civil war, an end to the war in Afganistan, and a publicly subsidized alternative option to the highway robbery of Big Insurance.

Since then we have seen very little progress on any of these 3 issues and now the Democrats add insult to injury in the form of the Baucus Health Care Access Reform Bill in the Senate.

We the people have been patient but the Baucus plan may turn out to be the straw that broke the camel's back. If this plan goes forward, this voter will either be voting 3rd party or perhaps even straight Republican ticket in 2010 and 2012.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 7:46 PM

B-N-B,

You told me many moons ago that you're a Beatles fan, and, based on that, I'm concluding that you have a pretty good stash around there. I have about all of their albums in electronic storage, so if there's any of their stuff you don't have but would like, I can accommodate.

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 7:32 PM

Third Child,

Something's bugging me and maybe you can help me out. In some previous posts you have stated that I have been deceptive and misrepresentative.

Could you point out to me where I was guilty of those particular misdeeds?

I would like to review my failings so as not to repeat them in the future.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 7:25 PM

NanaDot,

WELCOME BACK!!!!

WE SURE DID MISS YOU!

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 7:18 PM

ND, hello :)

Do you believe Potter has truly been reborn? I wonder what the reformers think about what he has to say now.

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 6:35 PM

KF, I'm intending to stick around. I mean, if I left, my warmth and good cheer would be sorely missed by so many! (heh heh)

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 6:28 PM

Slater muses over the Baucus Bill, pulling at his chin and wondering, Why is it that my thoughts about cooperatives become intertwined with thoughts about Enron?

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 6:12 PM

Slater: I think YOU should stay here.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 6:09 PM

"Sen. Max Baucus releases the much-awaited Senate version of a health overhaul"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32872749/ns/...

I am strongly opposing the Baucus Bill and I recomend others...including our Senators from Missouri...also oppose this legislation for the following reasons:

1.} It DOES NOT include a public option.

2. It mandates and criminalizes the choice of not purchasing high priced, private insurance.

and

3.) The Baucus Bill is nothing more than a gift to Big Insurance and a burden on the American People.

The Baucus Bill is bad legislation and should be killed in the Senate.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 5:51 PM

This one is for MidMoCat, who strongly urged that Third Child and I move to China:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgHmSdpjE...

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 5:26 PM

Third Child,

If anyone ever tries to force you to get a flu shot, be sure and let me know and I will be by your side fighting them tooth and nail all the way.

However, since flu shots are in short supply, and since you have the legal right to refuse any and all medical treatment for yourself its a highly unlikely scenario.

Having said that, may I please give you some first-hand information about swine flu.

My wife and I both had swine flu during this past Winter here in Oz (it is now early Spring here). To describe the experience of swine flu as extremely difficult would be describing it lightly. Make no mistake about it, swine flu can kill an otherwise healthy person. 3 days into the symptoms I knew full well that it made all other flu's I had ever had in my life look like kid stuff. 5 days into the swine flu, I was praying to God asking Him to go ahead and end my life. My wife too wanted to simply die rather than continuing to suffer. The swine flu is not just messing around. It means business! Also the symptoms continue for a long time. It was a month before my wife and I both finally began to feel better. If we had been about 10 years older, I am not sure we would have survived it.

So please believe me when I tell you that you should take every measure you can to protect yourself and your family from swine flu...or you will almost surely find yourself in a very serious situation that could end vey tragically.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 5:16 PM

Slater: I do see what you mean. What they're doing, and not as well as they could, is citing the myth first, and then "busting" it. In any case, if the Alzheimer's association believes flu shots don't increase the incidence of the disease, then I think that's probably correct.

TC: Hard to believe anyone could actually say, with a straight face, that the organization dedicated to wiping out the disease would work to do the opposite.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 3:43 PM

KF, my nit-picking has to do with the language. In the first paragraph it says there's no relationship.

In the second paragraph it says the studies do NOT show a statistical level significantly high so as to exclude any risk.

The author's use of the word NOT is what queers the deal. Obviously a case of not saying what was meant to be said.

Paragraph II contradicts Paragraph I.

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 2:16 PM

They are saying that mercury is good for us, Kathy. Also aspartame and aluminum. mmm good..yum yum.. Minty flavor too!

These Alzheimers corporations make a living off Alzheimers patients. Do the math. Follow the money.

I suggest people do their own search engine look "Alzheimers+flu shot"

A great search engine that doesn't track your searches like gooogle and others do, at:

http://ixquick.com/

-- Posted by Third Child on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 2:03 PM

Slater: Tell me what's confusing and maybe I can help. It looks pretty clear to me, but could be that I'm missing something. kf

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 1:23 PM

First is says it don't, but then it do, dum de dum de dum, de dum de do... Maybe my early-onset Alzheimer's has kicked in as I try to decipher the following from Myth 7 of KF's link:

"Myth 7: Silver dental fillings increase risk of Alzheimer's disease

Reality: According to the best available scientific evidence, there is no relationship between silver dental fillings and Alzheimer's...

Many scientists consider the studies below compelling evidence that dental amalgam is not a major risk factor for Alzheimer's."

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 1:17 PM

Flu News:

http://www.snopes.com/medical/disease/sw...

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 12:45 PM

Actually, just so everyone's clear on the source of my previous post:

http://www.alz.org/alzheimers_disease_my...

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 11:35 AM

TC: From the Alzheimer's web site, the following:

"Myth 6: Flu shots increase risk of Alzheimer's disease

Reality: A theory linking flu shots to a greatly increased risk of Alzheimer's disease has been proposed by a U.S. doctor whose license was suspended by the South Carolina Board of Medical Examiners. Several mainstream studies link flu shots and other vaccinations to a reduced risk of Alzheimer's disease and overall better health."

Note that the medical license of the doctor who's promoting this myth was suspended.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 11:33 AM

Editor:

Are there any stipulations for repetitive postings?

I would like to request that tc's vaccination postings be limited or deleted outright.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 11:31 AM

So, I have to guess that the natural remedy to ward off the flu would require the beating of a dead horse?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 11:31 AM

3 flu shots double your chance of Alzheimers..

-- Posted by Third Child on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 11:24 AM

tc,

I'm with wtf. We comprehend fully that you are anti-vaccine. Please stop convincing us of that.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 11:10 AM

By a show of hands, how many people here get Third Child's point about flu vaccines?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 10:29 AM

"Eighteen Reasons Why You Should NOT Vaccinate Your Children Against The Flu This Season"

http://www.prisonplanet.com/eighteen-rea...

-- Posted by Third Child on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 10:25 AM

A valuable service to the community would be to publish an article with discussion of the 'risks to benefit ratio' of the "flu clinic tests" scheduled soon in Saline County.

I believe this information should be presented to the public *before* they are asked to sign the 'fully informed' voluntary consent form.

People don't understand that *they are the test* and even though it may not say so on the consent form, the test subjects will not be able to sue for damages.

As they say, the devil is in the details..

-- Posted by Third Child on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 10:09 AM

Youth Brigades

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/giv...

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 9:14 AM

Does anyone know of any local children who are members of a "youth brigade"?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 9:09 AM

"Obama Pushes For Renewal Of Warrantless Spying On Americans"

President Barack Obama has once again betrayed his promise to restore liberties eviscerated by the Bush regime by pushing Congress to renew Patriot Act provisions that allow for warrantless spying on American citizens, even in cases where there is no link to terrorism whatsoever.

Obama's support for the provisions should come as little surprise because he first voted for warrantless wiretapping of Americans in 2008 when he was an Illinois Senator, while also lending support for immunizing the nation's telecommunications companies from lawsuits charging them with being complicit in the Bush administration's wiretapping program..

http://www.infowars.com/obama-pushes-for...

-- Posted by Third Child on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 8:59 AM

Hatful, is trying to distance Obama from 'youth brigades' being set up in our country, by claiming that the only one that ever talked about it was Obama's handler, Rahm Emanual, the dual citizen Israeli, that tells Obama what to do.

Hatful, are you saying Obama never had anything to say about training youth brigades to police and control American citizens? Does that imply that he is against it? What exactly ARE you trying to say, Hatful? A simple search on "Obama youth brigade" will find plenty. Like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4yloipso...

-- Posted by Third Child on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 8:41 AM

Just a reminder: Many a fine, well-argued comment has been deleted because the writer couldn't resist the temptation to include a pot-shot at an opponent. I realize I do not catch every personal attack, but if I could, I would. Leave 'em out. Take it outside. Stick to the issues here, please.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 8:36 AM

Newsacross here is the link I found the information on.

http://www.health.gov.au/internet/main/p...

The part about the extra 1% in in the last sentence.

If we could get a system like the one in Australia even with the extra %1.5 tax that was ran as well as theirs seems to run I would be all for that.

Thank you News for the reply

-- Posted by Gal66 on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 8:35 AM

"Third Child, I'm glad to hear you are not getting a flu shot. Does this mean you will not feel the need to beat that subject into the ground for the next few days?"

WTF, you must have got up earlier than the editors at MDN because the post you refer to, which included corrections to false information put out by 'hat full', has been removed. So don't worry as you insist in avoiding information that could save your life, you will have no problem in doing so, because it will most likely be edited to the memory hole of history, anyway.

-- Posted by Third Child on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 8:10 AM

Ah......

Here we go.

S'matter Third Child? Is it a little lonely over at your Yahoo group?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 8:01 AM

Could Patrick Swayze have been saved by natural anti-cancer remedies?

http://www.naturalnews.com/027030_cancer...

-- Posted by Third Child on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 7:50 AM

WonderJim,

It sounds like you think someone should be jumping up and down yelling, followed by lawsuits being filed.

But if you believe such actions are wrong (as evidence by your comment about the NAACP), then why would you advocate that behavior?

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 7:40 AM

It appears that a reminder lesson is required to balance out tc's continued posts that use Alex Jones as a reliable information source.

Let's take a look at just one example of how Alex Jones presents information. (It's important to remember that Alex Jones sees what he believes, not the other way around.)

In his last movie -- The Obama Deception (created, directed and produced by Alex Jones) -- here is how the Peace Corps was portrayed.

Statements attributed to Obama that addressed the creation of a youth force. In actuality, some of the comments were made by Rahm Emmanuel and what he was speaking about was anyone who gets involved in civil programs, such as the civil engineers, Peace Corps, etc - "everyone" that volunteers will receive "basic training" relating to whatever it is they're joining. Essentially, as he even states, it's a copy of similar programs during the Clinton years; even then the US didn't have a large paramilitary organization. The entire interview is about the book he co-authored with Bruce Reed, entitled The Plan: Big Ideas for America and had nothing to do with Barack Obama. This interview happened a little over two years before Rahm Emanuel was appointed Chief of Staff.

The context is taken out intentionally by conspiracy theorists. It's almost impossible to find a clip of this interview that isn't cut down to a couple of minutes with some kind if conspiracy theorist commentary added in.

For more information about Alex Jones debunked, go to www.conspiracyscience.com.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 7:34 AM

Dawson16,

He never stated it was his opinion. Instead he stated it as an absolute fact -- when in fact it is the opposite of the factual, empirical evidence (see the sources I previously cited for more on this topic) .

If he made such a statement in an essay at any accredited university with out qualifying his statement, he would immediately receive a failing grade for his "effort." Perhaps if he had used a qualifier in his sentence such as "the UN is 'almost' useless," or if he had said, "in my opinion...," it might have worked out better for him...but he didn't. Instead he made an absolute statement which he could not qualify because it simply isn't supported by the evidence (again, see my qualifying citations for more on the successes of the United Nation since its inception).

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 6:09 AM

Slater,

Thanx for the video link. What made you think of little 'ol me?

Third Child,

I'm glad to hear you are not getting a flu shot. Way to go buddy! You have taken a stand and we're all proud of you! Does this mean you will not feel the need to beat that subject into the ground for the next few days?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 5:50 AM

"Open Letter To Glenn Beck" By Alex Jones

"Be on the right side of history," talk show host tells Beck as Fox News anchor leads grass-roots conservatives astray

http://www.prisonplanet.com/open-letter-...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZEnV_-R-...

-- Posted by Third Child on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, at 10:29 PM

We'll just have to agree to disagree about opinions, news.

I'm not going to change your mind and you're not going to change mine. It's a draw.

Cease firing!

-- Posted by Dawson16 on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, at 9:50 PM

Ha Ha! Yes, I'd bet you're right about that, Dawson. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, at 9:48 PM

from www.snopes.com:

"Others in the medical field consider Dr. Tenpenny's analysis more alarmist than medical. For example, she writes

'According to information presented at the May 2003 National Influenza Summit, approximately 85% of Americans between the ages of 20 and 50 go unvaccinated, and nearly 66% between the ages of 50 and 64 do not receive the flu vaccine. Have there been raging epidemics across the country due to the lack of flu vaccinations? Hardly. The massive campaign to vaccinate everyone this year appears to be motivated purely by economics.'

U.S. influenza annually causes 36,000 deaths and 114,000 hospitalizations. While Dr. Tenpenny may not consider the loss of 36,000 lives a year to an easily-preventable malady a raging epidemic, others do. To dismiss the drive to have everyone vaccinated against influenza as motivated purely by economics when such an initiative could easily prevent most of the deaths, strikes many as flat out wrong."

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, at 9:47 PM

Good heavens, calm yourself, TC. Take some deep cleansing breaths. The entire text of what's on the form for the flu vaccine is shown right here:

"I have been given a copy and have read, or had explained to me, the information in the "Vaccine Information Statement(s)" for the vaccine(s) checked below. I understand the benefits and risks of the vaccine(s) requested and ask that the vaccine(s) checked below be given to me or to the person named below for whom I am authorized to make this request. I consent to Medicare Part B billing if applicable."

Now just where did you find wording that said anything about "where you argree not to SUE in the case of DEATH or PARALYSIS, or a host of other COMPLICATIONS"? It must be written in invisible ink that only you can see, cause it ain't on that form, Sunshine!

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, at 9:43 PM

Slater, never mind it exploding into space. I think some days Eric wants to SEND it to space himself!

-- Posted by Dawson16 on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, at 9:35 PM

This one is for WTF :)

http://www.3gpdb.com/videoy.php?b=0-4rQG...

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, at 9:31 PM

Dawson16,

I disagree with your assessment.

I think when one makes an allegation regarding another person or an institution it is important to be able to qualify that allegation. We are all certainly entitled to our opinions, but an unsupported opinion is meaningless and empty. In addition, in the case of the UN we can certainly find many circumstances where the UN has been very useful

(http://www.un.org/esa/earthsummit/ga97stor.htm, http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/..., http://www.unfoundation.org/our-impact/s..., http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-1382..., http://www.google.com.au/search?q=succes....

Since his statement that "the UN is useless," contradicts factual, empirical evidence, I believe asking for his source of that "information" is quite appropriate.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, at 9:22 PM

Dawson, glad you like the events calendar. More new things will be added as soon as Speak Out explodes into space. (heh heh)

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, at 9:21 PM

I've been meaning to say that I like the new Events Calendar on the website. So, Eric, or whomever is responsible, it looks great and is very helpful!

-- Posted by Dawson16 on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, at 8:33 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Credit should go to publisher Shelly Arth and ad designer Jessica Wise. Jessica put in a lot of time learning the system and adding venues and events.

Glad you like it!

news across,

You said this to mrxray ---

"or is that merely your empty, meaningless opinion?"

It's his opinion, simply that. Everyone needs to respect that each person's opinion is valid and has importance. Opinions are personal to each person and just because someone doesn't agree with another doesn't make his right anymore than it makes yours wrong.

Or empty or meaningless.

And while I'm here, let me just say that you are still lumping everyone who didn't vote for Obama into one Republican category and I've already told you once - I'm not Republican!

And this whole post is nothing more than..... my opinion.

-- Posted by Dawson16 on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, at 8:31 PM

"House votes to rebuke Rep. Wilson"

...and rightly so.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32858805/ns/...

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, at 6:51 PM

The plan:

FLU SHOT TEST!

16 CONVENIENT LOCATIONS!

Roll up your sleeves and take the test!

*** "We're going to use the flu clinics to test some of our H1N1 plans," Assistant Administrator Russ Donnell said.

** Please download, print and sign 3 copies of the VOLUNTEER CONSENT FORM, where you argree not to SUE in the case of DEATH or PARALYSIS, or a host of other COMPLICATIONS.

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-- Posted by Third Child on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, at 6:43 PM

mrxray,

You say, "The UN really is worthless."

Could you qualify your statement please by providing credible sources (factal evidence and expert opinion) that support your statement...or is that merely your empty, meaningless opinion?

Please include the links to your sources so we the readers can check your sources for credibility and accuracy.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, at 5:37 PM

"UNITED NATIONS (CNN) -- A United Nations report issued Tuesday says both Israel and the Palestinians committed actions amounting to war crimes during Israel's military incursion into Gaza from December 27 to January 18."

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/...

The UN really is worthless. y.

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, at 4:53 PM

"Whistleblower: Baucus health bill an 'absolute gift' to insurers"

http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/09/15/b...

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, at 4:38 PM

Go back two posts from this one and read what I said, then apply it to the paragraph I copied to the post previous to this one.

Here's a clue to knowing the other half of Napoleon's statement - the year was 1942.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, at 3:36 PM

You add nothing to the deficit if you increase revenue to cover costs.

-- Posted by broke-n-busted on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, at 3:23 PM

Well, Slater, I've actually read Wickard v. Filburn; more than once. That puts me at a disadvantage in trying to guess what is going on in in your mind when you say "the following is precisely the point I made in my earlier post to you." Huh?

-- Posted by AF Brat on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, at 3:23 PM

"UNITED NATIONS (CNN) -- A United Nations report issued Tuesday says both Israel and the Palestinians committed actions amounting to war crimes during Israel's military incursion into Gaza from December 27 to January 18."

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/...

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, at 3:17 PM

Gal66,

In answer to your questions...yes all of your child's medical care would be covered here and of course you decide what doctor you hire. Most folks here use the yellow pages to find a doctor.

As to being taxed an extra 1% if you don't purchase supplemental insurance, I have never heard of that here at all.

Some folks do purchase supplemental insurance because it covers dental and eyeglasses, but I never heard of anyone being taxed extra if they don't.

As to taxing everyone at the same rate...I believe the rich should pay a lot more than the poor because society has been particularly good to the rich. We allow them special tax breaks we don't offer to the average Joe (such as allowing them to exclude most expenses such as labor cost from their taxable income). However if the wealthy are willing to be taxed on their gross revenues then I would be happy to support a flat tax. However, I suspect you won't find to many rich folks willing to agree to that.

I hope that answers your questions.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, at 3:02 PM

AF Brat,

For your edification, the following is precisely the point I made in my earlier post to you. Your Mr. Napoleon is stating only half the truth in this paragraph. Do you know the other half?

"Unfortunately, a notoriously tendentious New Deal-era Supreme Court decision has given Congress a green light to use the Commerce Clause to regulate noncommercial, and even purely local, private behavior. In Wickard v. Filburn (1942), the Supreme Court held that a farmer who grew wheat just for the consumption of his own family violated federal agricultural guidelines enacted pursuant to the Commerce Clause. Though the wheat did not move across state lines--indeed, it never left his farm--the Court held that if other similarly situated farmers were permitted to do the same it, might have an aggregate effect on interstate commerce."

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, at 3:00 PM

On the subject of anonymous screen names, TC, you have commented at least a few times that YOU are not anonymous.

Your disingenuous insistence to the contrary notwithstanding, you remain unknown. If you really want people to know who you are, then why not just post that name instead of using "Third Child." It's everyone's right here on Speak Out, including yours, to be anonymous. Jumping on other people for availing themselves of that right, as you do yourself, is, besides being really a little silly, incredibly hypocritical.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, at 2:17 PM

I see we're getting treated (or is it tricked) by a whole bunch of 9/11 conspiracy baloney.

I also got a laugh of being accused of "misrepresentation." Do you think that if you say enough times, it becomes reality? That's not the way it works.

You are the one full of mispresentations, tc.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, at 1:56 PM

That's the whole point 'hat full o' misrepresentation'

Obama is protecting the criminals! It's a crime cover up!

No one can ask Bush anything about 9/11 because Obama and Nancy Pelosi are blocking ANY investigation. Obama's running interference for his master's predecessor. It's all in the family. One puppet covers the crimes of the other. That's why snakes don't bite each other. Professional courtesy.

You wrote:

* Why are you even bringing up 9/11 and Obama? If the families want answers, they should be talking to Bush!*

-- Posted by Third Child on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, at 1:41 PM

This is a KEY point that is killing Health Care reform "So [the]assertion [we] can expand coverage and care without adding a dime to the deficit over the next ten years is, by the admission of even [the Administration's] most ardent supporters, a claim that virtually no one believes."

Even in the never-never-land of government finance, if you can't pay for it, you can't do it. Furthermore, you'll never sell it most Americans who believe in fiscal responsibility.

There is a low-cost, immediately implementable alternative (which may work or just be an important first step). ALLOW INTERSTATE ACCESS, OR COMPETITION, BY HEALTH CARE INSURANCE PLANS. Make the insurance market 50 times larger in two weeks. Instantly, BC/BS will no longer "own" certain states. Instantly, they'll have to match the lowest premium offered by one of 100 competitors. Prices will go down. More families can afford coverage (and fewer will need a subsidy but now a much lower subsidy).

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424...

This can be accomplished by the House, Senate, and President in 10 days IF THE DEMOCRAT LEADERSHIP WANTS TO (they'll get Republican votes for this alternative). Imagine, done by Oct. 1.

-- Posted by AF Brat on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, at 1:13 PM

TC,

Since it is such a hardship being here with the "trolls" as you put it and the censorship generates lengthy diatribes from you, why don't you just stay over on your yahoo spot where there are no mean people who have the audacity to disagree with you or call you on the misinformation you spread?

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, at 1:11 PM

TC,

Why are you even bringing up 9/11 and Obama? If the families want answers, they should be talking to Bush!

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, at 1:03 PM

TC,

You should refrain from criticizing people's anonymous user names until you are not using one yourself.

People in glass houses . . .

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, at 1:01 PM

Obama Happy To Comment On MTV Fluff, Will Not Respond To 9/11 Families, First Responders

http://www.prisonplanet.com/obama-happy-...

-- Posted by Third Child on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, at 12:59 PM

Slater,

You are absolutely right. Who will benefit the most if nothing changes?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, at 12:29 PM

During the 1990's I was covered by the federal health care insurance plan, which, at the time, paid 100% of medical costs. 100 per cent. I don't know if it still pays all costs for federal employees, but I'd be willing to bet so. How many of you in opposition to health care reform have plans that pay for 100% of your medical costs?

So, why don't you stop the harping and begin shouting to be covered by the federal employees plan? Only two people have mentioned the federal plan as an option, and the comments were made in passing - Kerry in 2004 and Obama in 2008. Well, in fairness to Kerry, he did mention the federal option during the debates.

No wonder the insurance industry doesn't want to see any changes that would result in a decline in its profit margin.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, at 12:25 PM

Hmmm....

Emotional aren't you.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, at 12:23 PM

No, I believe you should be edited. Your offensiveness is not appreciated and I have to ask you why you chose that name and why you continue to use it? Why not just spell out the word if it is not intended to offend? Why is everything deception with you? What is the 'payoff' to playing games of deception with an anonymous screen name?

Other than trolling?

-- Posted by Third Child on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, at 12:20 PM

AF Brat,

Here's the source of your argument, and the argument of other like-minded individuals:

SEMANTICS:

The meaning or the interpretation of a word, sentence, or other language form: We're basically agreed; let's not quibble over semantics.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

An all-too familiar tactic employed by politicians or anyone wanting to distort the true meaning of the language in question.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, at 12:06 PM

Well Third Child,

My screen name offends you. Should it be censored? Considering your last little tantrum your screen name definately fits you.

Now tell me again, how is it that I am allowed to CONTROL public discourse? How does that work exactly? Which button is it that I push to censor you or delete your posts?

Yes,Third Child, you truly are one hell of a victim.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, at 12:00 PM

Big difference between tyrant and troll. I called you a troll, not a tyrant. I said something to the effect that when people like you were allowed to control public discourse, that sir, would be a tyranny. Get your facts straight, please.

*If my opinion bothers you so much as to call me a tyrant..**

**So, now my screen name offends you? Tough.**

Another misrepresentation from you. Your screen name has always offended me.

-- Posted by Third Child on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, at 11:48 AM

AF Brat,

Good point but I guess it depends.

Lie:

a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.

Is it possible that the president truly believes it can be done although he could just end up being wrong? Or is he acutally speaking a what he knows to be a falsehood.

I guess only he would know that. I guess the real problem is that it is hard for any of us to believe anything that any politician says anymore.

For instance, if someone says there is a god yet can offer no proof,yet they still believe it in thier heart are they lying or merely mistaken?

It's an interesting quandry.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, at 11:32 AM

I wish that I'd caught this one.

[quote]Here's a question: if I went out and made a claim I believed but no one else thought possible - that a greyhound could outrun a cheetah, for example - would that be considered a lie or just naive, wishful thinking?

The reason I bring this up is because Bob Herbert made a rather astonishing admission about President Obama's health care plan in his column on Saturday:

The president also said, as he estimated the cost of his proposal at $900 billion over 10 years, that he "will not sign a plan that adds one dime to our deficits -- either now or in the future."

I'm sure he means it. But I have not spoken to anyone, either on Capitol Hill or elsewhere, who believes that is doable.

So Obama's assertion he can expand coverage and care without adding a dime to the deficit over the next ten years is, by the admission of even one of his most ardent supporters, a claim that virtually no one believes. Generically speaking, when someone makes a claim that no one believes it's characterized as a lie.[/quote]

http://realclearpolitics.blogs.time.com/...

But what if it's a Presidential pronouncement? Are the rules different?

-- Posted by AF Brat on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, at 11:08 AM

Third Child,

You said:

"**** the facts, drop it because of that is what 'hat full of hot air' and an obvious troll that assaults the readers daily with his chosen anonymous handle, "what the f..", said so. This is the tyranny of the lowest denominator and I don't like it one bit."

First of all I question where you get all of your facts.

Secondly, I have never complained to the editor about you nor have I petetioned to have any of your posts removed.

The reason I voiced "my opinion" for you to drop that particular subject was simple: The people on this board are not stupid. I think they got your point after your first 100 posts on the subject. The problem is that you are incessant and you relentlessly brow beat with cut and paste segments from other websites ad nasuem. If my opinion is that you move on, it's just that, "my opinion." I wield no power here. I have no control over what does and does not get deleted.

This is a private website, they have the right to delete wht ever they want. You don't have to like it but that's the way it is. If my opinion bothers you so much as to call me a tyrant then I think your being a little dramatic, don't you? You don't have to like my opinion but at least you are getting MY opinion as opposed to the regurgitated pablum that you seem to lean on.

When you speak your mind your a patriot, when I do it I'm a troll.

You make on hell of a victim, Third Child.

So, now my screen name offends you? Tough.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, at 11:04 AM

Great news yesterday and today. ACORN finally being exposed for what they really are, corrupt and fraud and a total waste of tax payer money. Census Bureau severs ties AND the Senate voted to stop tax payer money payments to ACORN and to investigate ACORN. Also at least one state is investigating the problems exposed in the prostitute video. It looks like Obama's Chickens are coming home to roost! To quote his favorite pastor

-- Posted by mrxray on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, at 10:37 AM

News, your idealism is showing.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, at 10:16 AM

Editing correction, previous post:

'when that decision is given to another person then public discourse is limited to *that* (not the)lowest common denominator.'

"That" instead of the..

"The" lowest denominator would be deletion or suppression based on actions of list trolls. (Example hatful and wtf)

"That" lowest denominator is limited to the actions of one lone editor. Big difference..just wanted to clear that up.. everyone makes mistakes.. sorry..

-- Posted by Third Child on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, at 9:54 AM

Deleting comments is a slippery slope.

It may not be pure censorship at the beginning but it inevitably becomes so. I voiced a complaint yesterday about it and got one reversed, a small victory by calling attention to the action. Some posts may not be worthy of publication but when that decision is given to another person then public discourse is limited to the lowest common denominator.

Evidently, some things are censored by reason of being off topic. I posted two short lines and a link the other day in the soapbox blog that Eric set up. Someone felt it was off topic perhaps? They didn't say. It's hard to tell when something just disappears.

I don't see how it could have been off topic, though, as that blog is about soapbox speaking in the first place. What better place to leave a link, to the injustice of Leonard Peltier's ordeal as a political prisoner, in the land of the free, home of the brave?

I try to post things that I feel are important for people to consider in their own self interest and that of the country. We are force fed so much misinformation and propaganda in the mainstream media that I feel a responsibility to present a different view. I resent the pressure of a few to oppress the free exchange of ideas and thoughts based on the limitations of themselves to agree or understand.

There is a difference between editing and censorship. Once 'editing' gets started it becomes easier and easier to hit the delete button on things the editor may just not agree on.

Then it is censorship and that is tyranny.

Someone said dissent is the highest form of patriotism. I'm not so sure but I do know that when we are no longer allowed to dissent, the last patriot rolls over in his grave, for the country is lost to despotism.

I have been censored in this venue for trying to warn the public about health effects of fluoride. The issues are simple enough, and I provided numerous links to back up my assertions.

Based on two complaints from anonymous trolls, I was advised to drop it. No debate, just drop it. **** the facts, drop it because of that is what 'hat full of hot air' and an obvious troll that assaults the readers daily with his chosen anonymous handle, "what the f..", said so. This is the tyranny of the lowest denominator and I don't like it one bit..

I imagine if I keep complaining it could lead to a permanent banning. It happens all the time.

That being the case is why I've set up the Saline County yahoo group. Pre-emptive free speech. I will be heard as long as the 'inter tubes' are still free. People have to be heard.

No disrespect to Eric, I think he is doing an admirable job considering what he faces. That said, just in case I'm dissapeared into the memory hole, I may be found speaking my mind at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/salinecoun...

If anyone else feels the need to get something off their chest, I invite them to do the same.

-- Posted by Third Child on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, at 9:41 AM

**I know that no one will believe this, but in fact they are right back playing the same old games at the Wall Street Casino they were when the bust occured*

I believe you, Oklahoma.

You are right about the health care debates as distraction to the latest move of the globalist bankers trying to finish driving a stake through the hearts of all Americans and the world..

Obama's latest teleprompter speech pushes banking 'reforms' and things that sound right, but the truth is completely different than the picture the speech writers portray.

Obama's plan for reform is to give the bank fraudsters complete power to regulate themselves!

They've plundered trillions from the people to cover the criminal derivitive scams and other dirty deeds. Now Obama, who was elected with hundreds of millions in Wall Street banker donations, plans on giving them full control of everything, creating a banker dictatorship.

http://www.infowars.com/obama-pushes-ban...

The Verdict - Judge Napolitano on Obama's Plan Giving Unlimited power to the Federal Reserve

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWlDnv5oY...

-- Posted by Third Child on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, at 8:21 AM

News,

I welcome health care reform even a single payer system, if and only if it can be ran right.

That is where I have a problem I just don't think our government can run it right, the idiots in Washington can not seem to do much of anything right.

I have a question for you we have a daughter that has special needs she has had 27 operations in her 16 years.

Would your health care system have taken care of these and left the decision up to us and her Doctors?

From what you have posted and the things I have seen about the system down there it seems to work very well.

Another question for you in my post about the high income earners down there being taxed an extra 1% if they do not buy their own insurance.

Why do you think it is fair to tax someone an extra amount because they don't have an extra insurance policy?

Would not the fair thing be to tax everyone the same?

-- Posted by Gal66 on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, at 6:48 AM

Kentucky Republican lawmaker charged with murder:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32853262/ns/...

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, at 5:57 AM

broke-n-busted,

I think we have probably all had a comment deleted by Eric at one point or another. He got one of mine once too. I asked Eric what the MD's policy and criteria for posting was and he very politely gave me the information. The policy is fair and reasonable and in line with most Newspapers Nation-wide.

Since then I have had no problems with deletions, as I now make sure what I post is in a form that complies with MD's policy. Now when I read that someone's comment was deleted, I can't help but appreciate that Eric is the editor. If not for him this forum might have devolved into nothing more than a series of angry, personal insults being bounced around. Instead its a decent place were reasonable people can discuss issues of interest in calm discourse.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, at 12:53 AM

This link ties to my recent comment. It is Robert Reich commenting on Wall Street one year later. At the first anniversary of the Twin Tower disaster America was raging to get the culprits, to the point of getting in to two wars to do so.

At the first anniversary of the great crash that destroyed the fortunes, and dreams of many there is barely a murmur as we sit obliviously on our haunches grunting, and scratching our heads. Meanwhile our government rewards the perpetrators of the atrocity with money, and implied guarantees that they will not lose a dime for their crimes.

Things are just wonderful folks.

http://robertreich.blogspot.com/2009/09/...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, at 12:01 AM

We are admonished to keep our eye on the ball, literally in sports, and figuratively in other realms. There are so many balls flying around at the moment that to do so makes the head spin.

This blog is dominated by concerns about our citizens health care at the moment, and for good reason. However, let us not forget to take a peak now and then at good old Wall Street.

I know that no one will believe this, but in fact they are right back playing the same old games at the Wall Street Casino they were when the bust occured. They are rolling those derivative dice more than they did before the crash. So what has changed you might ask. What has changed is that they are taking even more risks than before because they are assured now that the government will bail them out if they make the wrong bets again. Not only has our government removed most regulation, but they have removed the natural impediment to foolhardy risk taking, total failure if you make the wrong bet.

What a sweet deal they have. It is as if you or I went to "the boat", and were welcomed at the door with the words "Bet em up, if you win big you keep your winnings. If you lose old buddy we will give your money back".

Is this an insane world we live in, or what?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 11:50 PM

I'm on my way to the other room to have a look at the tailend of the Charlie Rose program, but before I go, here's the link to the quote I posted prior to this one:

http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/757...

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 11:46 PM

Any of you longer-in-the-tooth folk recognize the following words?

"For me, a few hours ago, this campaign ended. For all those whose cares have been our concern: the work goes on. The cause endures. The hope still lives. And the Dream shall never die."

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 11:37 PM

I know Eric and he is a happy, witty sort. A very likeable fellow. He has a tough job here and I hold no grudge for my post deletion - my first. (But only because I don't post much.) Think I'll go back and listen to that Beatles clip again.

-- Posted by broke-n-busted on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 11:19 PM

B-N-B, I viewed my reply to MidMoCat in your same manner, but Editor Crump saw it another way. :)

Yep, I'm still chuckling over yours, and, like you, I do hope Eric has a decent sense of humor.

Some days there's way too much seriousness going on in here, and folks need to sit back and laugh about things once in a while, even at themselves.

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 11:02 PM

Slater I think my post was caught up in a frenzy of deletions. There was nothing wrong with it. I was merely inviting the individual to partake in an advertised personal favorite delicacy. Then you got tickled and before long there are posts flying left and right. It truly was not meant to be malicious but maybe a little mischievous. I sometimes wonder if Eric gets a chuckle occasionally when he deletes some of this stuff left by us bunch of knuckleheads. I hope he does otherwise he is going to get very tired of this.

-- Posted by broke-n-busted on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 10:48 PM

"Members of Congress are not eligible for a pension until they reach the age of 50, but only if they've completed 20 years of service. Members are eligible at any age after completing 25 years of service or after they reach the age of 62. Please also note that Members of Congress have to serve at least 5 years to even receive a pension."

- OR -

Members of Congress are eligible for pension at age 50 and with 20 years service.

Members are eligible for pension after 25 years of service, regardless of age.

Members aged 62 or older are eligible for a pension but only after a minimum of 5 years of service.

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 10:11 PM

Maybe we're all asking the wrong questions. Instead of how are we going to pay for healthcare, maybe we should be asking why is it so @!#$% expensive in the first place? Also, should we do nothing and maintain the staus quo, who stands to benefit the most? It sure isn't John Q. Citizen.

Tea Parties,left this and right that aside I think we are all being punked. Think about every horror scenario about healthcare reform that's being thrown around. Deep down in your heart, where do you really think that is coming from?

I don't need to tell you because you already know.

Sure, people have a right to be angry but is our anger being manipulated and focused in the wrong direction? Again, Ask yourself, who benefits to gain the most if we change nothing?

I understand that alot of people didn't vote for Pres. Obama and alot of people don't like him for whatever reason,that's fine as it is thier right but I cannot for the life of me understand what horroble crime he has committed in his short time in office to warrant some of the absolutely horrible things that have been said about him. Trying to make sure that insurance companies provide the services that they promise and trying to make sure that we all, everyone of us, has affordable health care. I fail to see why that is the most horrible thing this country has ever faced.

I posed this question before but I think it's worth repeating:

Would anyone agree the our military and our healthcare system share a common goal? That goal is to maintain the health and well being of the American citizen. One system protects from illness while the other protects us from attack. Both protecting us from death if need be.

How would you feel if the military only protected some of us? Would you stand for it?

So again, deep down in your heart of hearts, politics and bikering apart, who really stands to benefit if we change nothing? Follow the money.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 9:53 PM

Gal66,

Thanks for the link. It's a good starting point for a more in-depth inquiry. Think I'll try my Congressman; he's a first-termer and it'll be interesting to see if he's become insulated against public intrusion. :)

One paragraph from that link is a head-scratcher. I believe I know what the author is saying, but it sure could be stated in clear English. Here, have a look:

"Members of Congress are not eligible for a pension until they reach the age of 50, but only if they've completed 20 years of service. Members are eligible at any age after completing 25 years of service or after they reach the age of 62. Please also note that Members of Congress have to serve at least 5 years to even receive a pension."

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 9:52 PM

Very well stated, Cosa Nostra.

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 9:23 PM

Cosa Nostra - couldn't agree more. Well said.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 8:55 PM

"Poll: 62.9 percent of US doctors support the public option"

http://rawstory.com/news/afp/Most_US_doc...

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 8:38 PM

R.I.P. Patrick Swayze.

May you clean up that big "Road House" in the sky.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 7:31 PM

"Philadelphia Free Library System is shutting down"

http://www.boingboing.net/2009/09/13/phi...

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 6:46 PM

"Obama 'powerless' against neo-conservatives: Bin Laden tape"

http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/09/14/o...

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 6:10 PM

"Right Wingers Marching in DC Is Big News -- But the Same Old Faces Are Pulling the Strings"

http://www.alternet.org/politics/142606/...

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 6:03 PM

"many believe the USA is headed towards 3rd World economic status."

We're about there already when 90% of the wealth belongs to 10% of the population.

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 5:41 PM

News,

For the life of me I can't understand how anyone is so positive that Obama is out to ruin our system of "health care." It's become clear to me that these committee members don't know enough about what's really needed to make the best decisions. Certainly I don't know anything about it, but at least if I were on a committee I'd be very receptive to hearing from medical people around the country, people like the guy in charge at the Mayo Clinic, where service delivery is different from the norm, and from the guy in charge of the Cleveland Clinic, where service delivery is different from the norm (doctors are salaried and all incentives have been removed to order unnecessary tests, etc. just to put money in their pockets as is done by private practitioners).

Legislators are way out of line to be talking about how this plan or that plan will have all of these adverse affects when they have no idea what the final draft will look like. Some senator was blabbing on the Lehrer News Hour the other evening and he kept saying, We have the best health care system in the world and I don't know why we would want to change a thing. That's the kind of mentality that causes all the trouble, someone who thinks he knows everything, and that seems to be the prevailing attitude in Congress, as I see it.

Our government - always right and never wrong. That's what they want us to believe. Just leave it to us, we'll handle it. Yeah, right.

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 5:38 PM

Slater,

I agree that many in Congress seem either woefully ignorant of the facts regarding Big Insurance or they know better but they want the Big Insurance lobbyist payoff.

However the thing that surprises me is how many folks in America seem to be hell bent on stopping progress. Many folks World-wide believe that America's days of World leadership are over, and many believe the USA is headed towards 3rd World economic status.

I hope for the best but frankly it seems to me the skeptics may be correct.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 4:53 PM

Jo,

I see at least two things working against any meaningful health care reform, and I've stated those two reasons already, but there seems to be no will and no willingness on the part of the legislators to educate themselves to the factors influencing our current method of health care.

Until such time as Congress stops thinking they know everything there is to be known, nothing sensible will ever happen, in my opinion.

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 4:13 PM

B-N-B,

I'm still laughing. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 4:10 PM

Gal66,

High income earners (aka rich people) should pay more than middle class and the poor. Also, of course we pay our medical costs out of taxes...but we pay far less per capita than the USA does, and we don't pay premiums,deductibles, or co-pays. Our system cost less per person and there is nothing to prohibit a person from seeing there doctor (lack of cash for example), no one is filling bankruptcy due to medical bills, and the end result is that Australians have a much lower infant death rate and they live longer than Americans do.

Frankly, I could not care less if the USA brings its health care out of the dark ages or not. If you want your failed health care access system to continue to cost you more and benefit you less then have at it.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 4:05 PM

Maybe we are too Ignorant to decide whats good for Humanity? With what i've read about Health Care! Everyone seems to want it to go away,and not be fair for everyone.It's absolutely, a not for Profit thing! But it seems like everyone wants to shoot that idea down, so they all can get Rich off People's misery! It should have been Single Payer from the beginning!

-- Posted by Jo on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 4:05 PM

So, Mr. Editor, I presume that MidMoCat's post would still be standing if I hadn't responded.

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 3:58 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
No, it wouldn't.

I saw where they approved The Truck Only Lanes on I-70. The problem: Can't find the money.

Solution: Legalize Gay Marriage statewide. Use income generated to fund Trucks Only Lane.

Quick guess (Not factual) 117 counties in Missouri. $50.00 for marriage lisence. 100 homosexual couples per county. That's 11700 statewide. (Again a quick guess)

11700 Couples

$50.00 fee

----------

$585,000

Here's Kansas with the same figure,

105 counties

100 per county

10500 statewide

$50.00 fee

equils $525,000

Not all couples will come from different states, but it's a start.

-- Posted by ieatsuperglue on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 3:21 PM

news: "with a greater population in America comes a lot more tax revenue. America can definitely afford socialized medicine if it chooses." But with an unemployment rate of almost 10% (that's just the ones drawing unemployment), there is probably a higher percentage who are "unemployable" - puts a heavy tax burden on those who do work. Funny thing is, there is a cap on SS wages (a point where they stop taking it out) but Medicare tax just keeps on coming out plus the fact that if you are working, you are paying for your own insurance. Once again, pay for my own plus pay for others. Didn't I hear Pres. Obama say something last week about Medicare being bankrupt? May have misunderstood but I thought that was one of his concerns.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 2:14 PM

here you go Slater

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/uscongress...

-- Posted by Gal66 on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 2:10 PM

Thanks TC for taking my attempted interjection of levity to "new ends". Wikipedia is a fount of fun. I'm forwarding it to a friend in Missouri. He shares the name of one of the listed grooms for Henry VIII'.

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 1:54 PM

* US healthcare is unmatched in the world, and anyone with half a brain should know that.

This may be more correct than you know but it is essentially misinformation. Alopathic medicine is the worst form of medicine ever. It's stupid. Everything is cut it, burn it, infect it, kill it.

I would rather have the medicine of China, one thousand years ago. That was a "health system".

Most 'western' doctors know less than I do about nutrition. And that ain't much..

Slater, didn't lie.

-- Posted by Third Child on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 1:33 PM

Speaking of giant split bloomers and big royal rearends you may be interested in this.

Royal Groom of the Stool

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groom_of_th...

-- Posted by Third Child on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 1:14 PM

Wonder Jim,

I doubt many people would argue with you, except for maybe the 535 chairholders.

I'm interested in knowing what the former legislator receives in retirement income. I know it's at least partly based on the number of years in office, but I'm wanting to know what someone receives if they lose their seat during an election, as opposed to retiring.

No smarter than the bulk of them appear to be, I hardly think they're worth the $173,000. salary, or whatever the amount.

The obvious lack of collective brainpower, coupled with falacious reasoning produces statements like, The U.S, has the best health care system in the world, and other equally untrue statements.

If the members of the clown college honestly hold beliefs of this nature, then it's no wonder that the arguments are endless when it comes to conducting the country's business.

I'm not belittling any of the members, I'm just saying that the demands are sometimes greater than the collective mentality.

The head of the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, MN was in Washington to offer solicited input into this health care reform, and when asked if he thought his ideas were being considered, he said that he was never given the chance to offer any ideas.

And so it goes, time after time after time.

Squawking about Bill Clinton or any other politician living off your tax money is inconsequential in comparison the real issues.

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 1:05 PM

News across

Health Care in Australia

Medicare is funded partly by a 1.5% income tax levy (with exceptions for low-income earners), but mostly out of general revenue.

An additional levy of 1% is imposed on high-income earners without private health insurance.

Approximately 67% is government expenditure.

So in effect you do pay part of your health care cost on top of your standard tax's.

And the high income earner's in Australia pay an extra 1% making their tax's higher.

-- Posted by Gal66 on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 1:00 PM

* maybe he should go out and actually get a job and work for a living.

Bill Clinton, is still working, earning 100's of millions income since he left office. (trashed the office, literal)

I do agree with your previous point and raise the ante.

No double dipping.

Make it the same as Railroad Retirement.

If you make any money on the side, that amount comes right out of your retirement check.

Make it the same for all government workers. I'm sure it is at the bottom.

Make it the same all the way to the top. Clinton should have to pay it back, fair dinkum..

-- Posted by Third Child on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 12:58 PM

Speaking of Obesity: A pair of Queen Victoria's linen split drawers or bloomers, with a waist measurement of about 56 inches, is on view at the Royal Ceremonial Dress Collection at Kensington Palace. The knickers, as that undergarment is commonly known in Britain, and a matching chemise with a 66 inch chest measurement, had been hidden away for about 100 years before being acquired at auction for 600 in July by Historic Royal Palaces (HRP). It's thought the items, which date from the 1880s, were given to a servant as a memento after Queen Victoria's death in 1901.

Food for thought: Would Queen Victoria have taken kindly to being taxed on her abundant weight? Wonder if the servant's descendants received the 600 pounds from the Historic Royal Palaces? Is the HRP organization funded by British taxpayers?

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 12:41 PM

We asked...the City said they 'ask' that you be 3 feet off the property line. All we can do is get them for trespassing if they come onto our property.

Although I guess I should be thankful I don't have to see them once the fence is built. Still doesn't mean they can do as they wish on my property.

-- Posted by Scarpetta on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 10:58 AM

Thank you for the revision.

I wrote you a poem at:

http://www.marshallnews.com/story/156855...

#30

-- Posted by Third Child on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 10:58 AM

when we lived in town we put up a privacy fence. The city told us that we had to be 1 foot (I think it was just 1 foot) inside our property line, and the fence could not go past the front of the house.

-- Posted by patron on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 10:51 AM

May I just throw in that we should also exclude those who use computers and the internet, doesn't that cause cancer too? (That is a joke if anyone missed it.)

I'm gonna try a new topic for a minute, why aren't there any ordinances in this town (Marshall) about building a fence on a property line?

-- Posted by Scarpetta on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 9:51 AM

More censorship? What was wrong with that last one?

-- Posted by Third Child on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 9:48 AM

News across

You gave us some bogus information about the Tea Party numbers in the District of Criminals over the weekend..

As you stated how much you hate lies and distortion maybe you should print a retraction.

There were as many as 2 million angry people trying to get the attention of the 'selected' ones and the mainstream media lied its a** off to try and cover it up.

Why would they do that?

Why did you do it?

-- Posted by Third Child on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 9:21 AM

mrxra,

Your friend is mistaken. We pick our doctors from the phone book...

I live in Australia and I know.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 8:58 AM

mrxray

None of what you claim about Australian medicare is true. I want to believe you are merely misinformed, but frankly I think you know very well that none of your claims are true.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 7:44 AM

just by you saying it aint so does not make it not so.

My information comes directly from a consumer of their health care system who happens to be a friend. IF they go to a clinic that is paid for thru their nation health system, medicare, then you see the first available. IF you choose to purchase supplemental private insurance then you can pick your doc and see them. That is the case with my friend.

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 8:45 AM

Air Force Wife,

Yes Australia is a small and wealthy Nation, but with a greater population in America comes a lot more tax revenue. America can definitely afford socialized medicine if it chooses. Its all about guns and butter...if you want more butter you produce less guns. I hope the day will come when my fellow Americans realize that if we have money to kill with, we have money to heal with...maybe then the focus will be life rather than death.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 8:43 AM

mrxray

None of what you claim about Australian medicare is true. I want to believe you are merely misinformed, but frankly I think you know very well that none of your claims are true.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 7:44 AM

We could learn a lot and save lots of tax dollars by using some of the Australian tactics on handling illegals. Rather than allowing illegals their day in court (which sometimes takes months and by then they have changed their name and moved somewhere else), deport them. Another huge difference in this type of coverage is Australia has a population of 21m+, the US is 304m+ yet I believe is pretty close is size (2.9m sq. miles vs. 3.5m sq. miles). Big difference.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 7:43 AM

In Australia, if you belong to their national health care system, you go to the doctor's office, wait in line for the first available doctor. you do not have a choice of who you see or no continutity of care with your personal doctor. That is one way they try to cut costs I guess. There is no asking for a different doctor, you get who you get.

-- Posted by mrxray on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 4:51 AM

Slater,

Anyone in need of medical care, regardless of their immigration status is treated when they are in Australia.

However, in the case of a john or jane doe, determining their name and next of kin would be the job of the police...regardless of immigration status. Once the individual's ID is determined the hospital would seek their medicare info. If they turned out to a tourist or an illegal immigrant, the hospital would contact their next of kin to learn how the person plans to pay for their care. Then immigration would be called in to determine their visa status. Not having a medicare card or traveler's insurance definitely sets off alarms in Australia because all lawful residents and citizens have a medicare card.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 12:04 AM

*what about a real emergency, when the individual requires hospitalization after being hit by a car and rendered unconscious or comatose*

The outcome here may depend on whether you have a signed donor card or not. Body parts is big business..

-- Posted by Third Child on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 11:40 PM

Okay, News, you've explained how the tourist with a smashed finger is treated. Now, what about a real emergency, when the individual requires hospitalization after being hit by a car and rendered unconscious or comatose, or is comatose from a near drowning, for example?

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 11:31 PM

**"Everyone agrees smokers should not be covered"??? Oops, must have missed the email when they sent it to me for my vote*

Maybe that email got lost with the one I was supposed to get forcing vaccinations and mass

medication with industrial toxic wastes?

As that was for the good for the "herd", according to you, why don't you feel the same when it comes to the health costs of those smokey little cancer sticks? Those harm the herd, too. It's not good for the c h i l d r e n...

Many auto accidents are caused by people smoking. And cell phones.. text messaging.. CARS kill people.. ban cars AND cigarets! AND cellphones! making up a list....

Enough, I say!

Ban it, censor, and put it out

The smoke gets in my eye

For health, it cost, there is no doubt

Big brother would not lie

That vice, ain't nice

I'll say it twice

I read it in a book

Instead in hand, I wish I had

The money that you took

The death commission

Is on a mission

Your name is in its sights

The Reaper calls from down the hall

His normal time is night

So off to bed, my sleepy head

And don't forget the light

I hope and pray, I have to say

I best not wake up dead!

SMOKE 'EM IF YOU GOT 'EM!

-- Posted by Third Child on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 11:30 PM

hat full of sky,

All citizens including politicians are covered by our socialized medical care and only have the same options that the average citizen has. The politicians don't get any special treatment. Even the Prime Minister must provide his medicare card.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 11:24 PM

Air Force Wife,

Your question regarding unlawful immigrants and how they deal with medical problems in Australia is an excellent question.

In Australia all citizens and lawful permanent residents are issued a medicare card which must be presented to the medical staff before treatment. If a person doesn't have a medicare card (such as an American tourist or an illegal American immigrant -- yes we do have them) then they must provide there traveler's insurance info or pay cash prior to treatment.

If they don't pay or have traveler's insurance, they will still be treated, but while they are in the emergency waiting room an immigration agent will be contacted and he/she will be on their way to the hospital where the tourist or immigrant will be interrogated to determine the individual's visa status. If they don't have a lawful visa (including an E-visa) then they are taken into custody (after treatment) and transported to an immigration holding facility to await deportation.

Australia requires all tourists to arrange for traveler's insurance prior to entry into Australia. They usually don't ask for proof when entering the Country, but it is, never-the-less, a condition of entry and technically they can deport the tourist for not having traveler's insurance. However, most tourists can usually afford to pay since most have credit cards.

But in the case of an illegal, the Australian Dept Of Immigration means business and that person would be immediately sent back to their own country and not allowed back in...ever.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 11:19 PM

Health Insurance shouldn't cover smokers. What a load of crap. The fact is as we all know smokers die earlier. The real expense will not be the smokers. It will be those of you who go on to live very,very long lives. Long lives that will require constant medical attention just to maintain that very long life. Smokers will actually be doing you a favor. They won't milk the system nearly as long as the "healthy people"

Kathy is right. The overweight,drinkers,drug users, smokers and probably gays because it will be assumend they practice unsafe sex.Not only that but thay are all easy targets and if not excluded then taxed heavily. Where does it end? Extreme sport enthusiasts. Bikers, mountain climbers or anything else that is deemed too risky. We all drink the water. Donesn't that cause cancer know? We have to exclude the water drinkers. What's next ? Meat eaters? Why does absoltutley everything in this country have to be exclusionary to some degree? We'll be ok as long as we can keep "them" out. "They" are ruining everything. Don't whine about bureaucarcy by putting in place yet one more bureaucracy.

Third Child, did I actually see you defend Alex Jones with a link to an Alex Jones website? Really? We're supposed to buy that?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 10:28 PM

news across,

I think AF wife makes a good point about the politician having to use the same insurance as the rest of the population.

Is that true with the universal health care in Australia?

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 10:08 PM

Slater,

Ha! I like your sense of humor.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 10:07 PM

"Wow! That last sentence in my most recent post was a doozy."

"We pay with skyrocketing medical costs for our own medical costs."

What I meant to say was "we pay with skyrocketing medical costs for our own medical needs."

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Heh heh...be careful, Hat Full. Someone may accuse you of being a product of the Texas education system. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 9:36 PM

news - regarding your post about Australia's health care - what do the hospitals do if an illegal comes in for treatment? I know Australia doesn't allow people to stay in the country without proper registration. That's one of the problems here - no one is denied treatment so even if someone is an illegal, they get treated the same as the rest of us but someone has to make up those unpaid bills. Just curious. Maybe we need to look at the way you guys handle immigrants.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 9:19 PM

AF Brat,

I agree 100%!

The politicians should have no better and no worse health care access than anyone else.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 9:05 PM

tc: Again, I state: the pot is calling the kettle black.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 9:04 PM

Hatful, here is the only thing you wrote about Alex Jones that might be true. Everything else you wrote and attributed to Alex Jones was a big fat lie. You must think people are pretty stupid to believe such bald face lies. I can't imagine more than a few believe anything you say..

You wrote:

*Apparently, Alex Jones is the only person in the U.S. who knows the real truth because he is smarter and braver than anyone else*

That statement isn't EXACTLY TRUE, but it's the closest thing to the truth you have ever written about Alex Jones.

http://www.infowars.com/the-spark-that-h...

Also, Charlie Sheen, has almost a half million views on youtube with his 9/11 "truth" challenge to President Barack Obama. Alex Jones is also instrumental in that ongoing project. More to come..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyKR2-A0K...

-- Posted by Third Child on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 8:50 PM

On health care.

None of us are smart enough, crafty enought, or dedicated enough to outflank the politicians, paid lobbyists, and medicorp executives working full-time to get their piece of the trillion dollar cherry pie. So we need to tie into their self interest.

Here's how. I'll support any national health plan that REQUIRES the President, Cabinet Members, AND Congresspersons (and their families) to participate fully in it with NO more or different options than those given to every ordinary citizen (we can all "buy better" or none of us can). One plan for all, eh?

"Equal protection" from injury and disease. It's only FAIR.

P. S. I'm not worried that the Congress will allow this because they have ALWAYS exempted themselves.

-- Posted by AF Brat on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 8:34 PM

mrxray,

I live in Australia where we have had socialized medicine since the '70s and we absolutely love it.

In fact, we just expanded it to include basic dental as well. We pay for it out of general taxes (my tax rate here is the same rate I had in the USA on the same level of income) and one of the ways we financed it was by cutting wasteful military spending. Today, Australia still has the most powerful military in this region and at about half the cost and we use the savings to help pay for health care. We don't deny coverage to any Australian citizen or permanent resident despite any bad habits they might have. Everyone is equally covered, no one files bankruptcy due to medical bills...because there is no bill, we pick our doctors from the phone book, and the longest I ever waited to get in to see my doc was 1 hour from the time I called to make the appointment. All my medical decisions are made by my doc and me...the gov simply pays the bill and cannot deny me treatment.

Our system in Australia isn't perfect, but we rank higher than the USA does in medical care quality and access, all our people are covered, and if any politician here ever tried to end our socialized medicine system the only thing that would end would be that politician's career.

I feel quite certain the USA will eventually catch up with all the other 1st World, Western industrialized nations eventually, but I believe that it will only happen when my fellow Americans get tired of being robbed by Big Insurance and Big Insurance's Republican cheerleaders.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 7:23 PM

What a beautiful week end it has been! The weather was terrific for fishing and hanging out with a good book, I feel so refreshed almost like I took a vactaion!

-- Posted by litlmissme on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 7:02 PM

Kathy: I think I agree with you. Taxing smokers, or as Obama and people in Congress have discussed as a one way to pay for his health care plan seems like a bad idea to me. I mean, that is only a mechanism by which the Government is playing big brother and making choices for you. In essence, if we agree with taxing tobacco and soda, then we have to agree with taxing anything that anyone in Congress deems as unhealthy or unsafe. By that logic, we should heavily tax anyone who drives a vehicle, rides in a plane, participates in sports, fast food. Where and how do you draw the line? More importantly why are you willing to give up your freedom of choice?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 6:22 PM

News across:

Problem 1. Your statement suggests that YOU belief that all republicans, or right wing crazies as you call them, believe that Obama was not born in the US. So with that logic you would have to agree that ALL democrats and left wing whackos believe BUSH planned and allowed that fake terrorist attack on the world trade towers?

2. You equate those opposing Obama care or the versions that are public right now for us to evaluate, as to totally opposing health care reform of any kind. This is a typical Democrat, or in words you can understand, LEFT wing whackos, tactic that is disingenuous because if you actually took the time and listened, almost EVERY American is wanting better and more affordable access to health care but most just dont want a group of corrupt politicians to make a program that allows for Big Government to take over 1/6 of our economy while mandating an expense to tax payers that will be unsustainable in the long run. No one, not even republicans in office are saying that we do not have a problem with access to health care. That is a bold face lie.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 6:14 PM

hat full of sky,

You make an excellent point regarding the right wing crazies and their continuing campaign of lies, their outrageous attacks on our President and our duly elected officials, and their attempt to deprive Americans of affordable health care access.

Personally, I can't stand it when someone tells me a bold face lie and the right wing crazies want to scream bold face lies at me including such lies as Palin's now debunked "death panels," Obama not born in USA, or telling us that we don't have a health care access problem. So I have tuned the Republicans completely out. They can lay their crazy propaganda on someone else because this American is no longer listening to their lies and pointless insults.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 4:30 PM

It's so scary its funny the democrtas have given the terrorist the right to a lawer and to speak out can you say stupid.They fly planes into our buildings and kill 3000 innocent civilians and we give them rights now lol your rights are gone when you decided to blow us up.This is the stuff i am talking about wake up people mainly democrats what is with you all.

-- Posted by n2deep22 on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 3:43 PM

"Everyone agrees smokers should not be covered"??? Oops, must have missed the email when they sent it to me for my vote, ya think? In that case, I think we'll then have to exclude all drinkers, all drug users and all overweight people. Those are all "lifestyle" habits that can be changed, and are a choice, just like smoking. Just exclude all of those and reduce the worry about health care by at least half or two-thirds.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 3:41 PM

Wow! That last sentence in my most recent post was a doozy.

"We pay with skyrocketing medical costs for our own medical costs."

What I meant to say was "we pay with skyrocketing medical costs for our own medical needs."

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 3:38 PM

mrxray, i'm confused. "Too much money is the problem, not that they get paid. At least be realistic, I did not say they should work for free...lol" I didn't say they should work for free......

tc, "non-compliant" refers to those who "doctor shop" and "doctor hop". Those who don't take meds as prescribed, etc. "High risk" might mean those who are illegal drug users, refuse to wear protective gear when recommended (helmets on motorcycles come to mind...).

I am asking for ideas and input. We are some pretty smart cookies.... So far, we're doing great, doncha think?

-- Posted by missy08 on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 3:22 PM

tc: I believe that missy08 asked for a conversation about what we would like in health care, not another attack on the government.

However, you did raise a point when you wrote:

"But wait a minute.. In Obamacare, the one thing that Obama is firm on is mandatory participation or else face fines and jail time for non-compliance."

So I interpret that to mean you don't grasp the simple fact that taxpayers are already being fined for people who don't have health care. We pay the costs for the emergency room visits by people without health care -- we pay with skyrocketing medical costs for our own medical costs.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 2:49 PM

okay mrxray... so you want politicians to not receive any pac monies....? right? nobody gets an extra voice/vote by buying it? GREAT idea.

Politicians are elected and collect their pay just like the rest of us. No added incentive or bonus or "back scratching...".

MY response: Do politicians really need to be paid $173,000 per year average when the national average is something like $45,000, Plus all the perks they get? And you think that actual dollar amounts that people raise for campaigns is a fair way to have equal representation? That just means rich people have more votes. You think that when politicians can sit there and make a salary in the top 5% of the nation that after a few years of getting used to that salary that they really are concerned with YOUR and your areas needs? To me that seems elitist, especially when they can vote their own raises. I mean do polticians as a whole place their own children in public schools or do they want to utilize the health care system they are trying to force on us? Nope they attend private expensive schools and have their gold plated health care. How many politicians at their town hall meetings told their constituents that they were going to vote for the health care plan even when if the people did not want it? How many resort to calling the common man names or take phone calls while being asked questions during town hall meetings? I dont say that as a republican or democrat, just as a man from Missouri that observed the actions of politicians. Too much money is the problem, not that they get paid. At least be realistic, I did not say they should work for free...lol

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 2:17 PM

*I am hesitant to offer my $$$ for those who smoke, are non-compliant, and exhibit other "high risk" behaviors*

I understand what you mean when it comes to smoking. Everyone agrees that smokers should not be covered.

I'm a little fuzzy on the rest. Could you say more about what you *mean by non-compliance cause that'll prolly leave me out.. and "high risk," That just about leaves everyone else out!

Who is going to benefit from Obamacare if everyone is excluded?

But wait a minute.. In Obamacare, the one thing that Obama is firm on is mandatory participation or else face fines and jail time for non-compliance. Is that what you meant? But wait.. how can it be exclusive and mandatory at the same time?? Oh,.. this is so stressful.. my blood pressure may be rising.. It's as if discussion about health and money may be raising my blood pressure... detrimental to health... just talking about Obamacare could be HIGH RISK! Gosh.. Obamacare may be self defeating.. what a vicious circle.. Obama can't win for losing because he's damned if he does, he's damned if he don't..

Why don't those **** senior citizens just leave our President alone.. **** racists...

-- Posted by Third Child on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 2:14 PM

Then we need to allow health insurance companies to provide insurance in all 50 states and stop the practice of regional or state "areas". Car Insurance can be sold in any state and there is competition. Pre-existing conditions should not be a criteria. Discounts for healthy living, big discounts. Untie employment and health insurance as this prevents portability and the alternative when you lose a job is the very expensive COBRA insurance. When you lose your job you do not lose your car insurance. Tort law and malpractice issues need to be addressed. The practice of 30% or more to the lawyer needs to end. Things like Hospital billing and quality issues for medical facilities and Doctors needs to be OPEN and easily obtainable BEFORE you need them. I should be able to know up front what I will be charged for every procedure down to what they want to charge for tissue paper. That is just a few things that I see.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 2:07 PM

okay mrxray... so you want politicians to not receive any pac monies....? right? nobody gets an extra voice/vote by buying it? GREAT idea.

Politicians are elected and collect their pay just like the rest of us. No added incentive or bonus or "back scratching...".

-- Posted by missy08 on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 2:03 PM

Before any "real" reform can happen we have to eliminate the game that Howard Dean referenced in his remarks a short time ago. He stated that they did not want to tackle Tort reform because that would entail a fight with lobbyist for lawyers. This would actually be a fight with some of the members of Congress, along with their lobbyists. But the point Dean did not really address was the HUGE problem that we have in the policy making process. We all want health care reform, but how can we have a realistic expectation of having a policy that is not corrupted by one special interest group or another? When people who are always trying to get re-elected above all else and at the same time have their hands out to one or more special interest group, we do not have representation of the common, everyday people in America. What we have is a representation of the big businesses and special interest groups who spend billions on their Lobbyists while small businesses cannot afford, for the most part, to engage a lobbyist group. Many of our forefathers warned of the problems we would have when we started to reward politicians for their "service" with too much money. So my long winded point is that we have to eliminate the corruption that is inherent in the "money for policy/election" process.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 1:58 PM

thanks hat. good ideas.

-- Posted by missy08 on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 1:43 PM

missy08,

good idea. I would like to see insurance companies prohibited from covering costs because of a pre-existing condition. I feel like they hang everything they don't want to cover on that hook.

I would also like to see lawsuits for malpractice be limited to get rid of the frivolous suits.

I would like to see some incentive for doctors to practice in rural areas. (This problem has been linked to the lawsuits mentioned above because malpractice insurance is now so high that many doctors can't afford it with smaller practices.)

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 1:27 PM

Okay, here is a really crazy idea...

If we (those who post on this board) could state (and be heard) what we wanted in "health care reform", what would it be?

I would like for everyone to have access to health care but I am hesitant to offer my $$$ for those who smoke, are non-compliant, and exhibit other "high risk" behaviors. I would think that it would take several years of "contributing" to whatever fund is established before any monies could be withdrawn..... Payroll nor property tax would be fair.... Sales tax?

How about a civil discussion? No name calling. No bashing. No posting links to someone else's ideas. Let's think about this.....

Want to?

M

-- Posted by missy08 on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 12:51 PM

nanadot: Don't let anyone get to you!

Anyone who new Gus Lake, can't be all bad. Cheer up and stick with us! Were from the Old School. We need your prospective on things! And if it's illness hang in there?

-- Posted by Jo on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 11:44 AM

Dear NanaDot,

I sure hope you come back to the forum - or at least still comment on the blog entries.

While you and I may not always agree, I always appreciate the other side you bring to the table. It challenges some of my thoughts, makes me remember there are two sides to every issue and that what is "right" depends on one's perspective.

As you said on my blog, it is all about "choice." I really hope you choose to come back.

Marcia

-- Posted by Marcia Gorrell on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 11:31 AM

On second thought, let's just have this forum be a conspiracy zone!

Can we start with the Flat Earth Society? They are such a fun group to disprove!

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 10:54 AM

Oh my gosh! Are you really dragging out those old tired stories about 911 conspiracies?

When you have something that is actually based in fact (and not just dressed up to look like fact because anyone can make a website look like a news story or scientific report), please post that.

Don't waste our time with this old stuff.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 10:53 AM

Gosh, there are so many lies by Alex Jones that it's almost like shooting fish in a barrel.

Here are statements from Alex Jones:

"Is America ready for it's first black puppet?

Who will run for puppet in 2012?

I hope Hillary will break this nation's highest, hardest glass ceiling: being a puppet.

You can be anything when you grow up, you can even be a puppet.

MLK and other Civil Rights activists died so that one day in America, it would be possible for a black person to be a puppet for wealthy bankers.

Our armed services follow the command of a puppet.

The world's leaders lower themselves to meet with our nation's puppet.

Everyone in Washington wants to have the ear and email of our puppet.

Dems = Republicans = candidates for puppet

Fox News = MSNBC = stations in favor of puppets

Liberals = Conservatives = supporters of puppets

Hillary Clinton = Palin = Romney = McCain = Ron Paul = Huckabee = candidates for puppet"

These statements are so ridiculous that they don't even need to be refuted. Apparently, Alex Jones is the only person in the U.S. who knows the real truth because he is smarter and braver than anyone else who might have noticed these issues in the past.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 10:50 AM

9/11 Victim's Families message to Obama, NYC, & the World

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1joW2pir1...

50 seconds

-- Posted by Third Child on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 10:40 AM

Qualified pilots, given the true facts of the 911 attack on the Pentagon, can see and agree with me, that the official story of the plane hitting the Pentagon on 911 is a complete falsehood. Call it a lie, and a coverup..

Let the attacks begin..

A little research *before calling me a liar, this time, would be appreciated.

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/

-- Posted by Third Child on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 10:26 AM

Hatful,

Please do what you claim and point out the "lies, rumors, and the misinformation" that you accuse of Alex Jones. Put up or shut up buddy!

Stop saying that you point out both sides when you can't even label what you don't agree with!

Where are the lies? Are they just in your head?

Why will you not reveal them to the rest of us?

*must be diligent about responding to them. Not attacking the person but providing the truth for others to read.

Please DO,.. be diligent, AND, provide the truth for a change.

*I decided that I can no longer stay silent about is the spreading of lies, rumors, and misinformation

-- Posted by Third Child on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 8:52 AM

news across,

Your post about the misinformation and lies is exactly why we must be diligent about responding to them. Not attacking the person but providing the truth for others to read.

If the only one saying anything is the one with propaganda and misinformation, then people will listen and believe that. They must be able to hear about both sides in order to make an informed decision.

I respect people's right to disagree. For example, it's obvious that on the topic of Obama and religious symbols, mrxray and I have differing perspectives. We both have that right.

What I decided that I can no longer stay silent about is the spreading of lies, rumors, and misinformation that is designed to mislead people in order to attack the president. And it's just because I support the president. It's also because the Alex Jones and others like him don't care one little bit about the people they are lying to. To them, the individuals are tools they are using in a war against the President. They don't care about giving people the truth. And they don't care about what happens to the people when they discover that they helped spread misinformation that actually made their lives worse.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 8:36 AM

Oklahoma,

I still don't know the reason NanaDot has left. If there was some kind of dramatic exit, I must have missed it. Maybe some post integral to the explanation were removed in a fit of furious editing? I don't know.. and I can't believe it could have been because I said that 'we are all consumers' now..

I would love to have heard NDot elaborate on the meaning of the word, consumer. Especially if that was the cause of her untimely departure.

You wrote:

*The thought has occurred to me to post something fresh, which I try to do now and then. Usually it gets lost in the sheer volume of continued alarmist warnings, and counter attacks. That is likely due to lack of interest in what I have written, and I can live with that. It is no fun though to wade through post after post to find the rare response to what I have posted, or to what others have posted that I find interesting. Like all things this blog is fluid. It is at a point that I find less interesting. This to shall pass.*

The "Speak Out" format at the MDN seems to be 'fatally flawed' in its form of communication.

Anything worth reading is immediately lost in the jumble,.. or in the jungle, as may be more apropos? Anyway, I hear what you say, and even though I can't agree with everything you say, I still want to hear it. Quite a few here, not so much.. the few that say the most, usually say the least, and that drives good people away from even caring to read the speak out section, much less post there.

Without a format change, essentially a software upgrade where 'threads' can be divided and catagarized to some extent, it will always be a 'jungle' in the Speak Out and this Saline County sounding board becomes of little service to the people that could really use a gathering place for their thoughts and concerns to be aired in the community.

This is why I extend you a personal invitation to join and contribute your ideas and musings at the Saline County *Consumer, soon to be relabled Saline County Community, in NanaDot's honor.. or memory, if we never hear from her again..

Anyway, Oklahoma Reader, you are specially invited

to join as the number 3 founding member of the newly named Saline County Community, family discussion board. I do intend to manage this board, or turn that obligation over to others, in a manor that honors family and community. List trolls and list disruptors will be adjudicated forthwith, so as to make the list as family friendly as possible.

The yahoo format groups threads to subject, and is infinitely easier to keep track of particular discussions as they are grouped in thread format AND searchable. 10 years from now you will be able to go back and search, by subject, for discussion of 'Aunt Minnies retirement party' and the whole thread will pop up, sans all the distractions of other conversation subjects.

Try it out. Start your own thread of any subject and people can add to *that* subject.

Saline County Community, (soon to be,) the family's moderated discussion board for Saline Countians everywhere. Even Oklahoma..

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/salinecoun...

So wade on in, OKR. The water's fine. Slater and I are waiting on you and whatever you post you'll be able to go back and find. That part is essential as you have pointed out. You will be # Three, if you hurry.. a very lucky number.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 2:43 AM

-- Posted by Third Child on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 8:29 AM

hat full: Please read the ORIGINAL source mrxray cited here:

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local-...

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 8:01 AM

Hey WonderJim

You said:

"Rumor has it, Obama was born Muslim, and raised Southern Baptist. ;)"

What is the point you are going for?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 7:20 AM

ABC fights back against Tea Party protest size falsehoods:

http://rawstory.com/blog/2009/09/abc-fig...

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 6:29 AM

Real 'Norma Rae' dead of cancer after battle with health insurer:

http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/09/12/n...

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 6:26 AM

Oklahoma Reader,

The way I avoid crazies is by not reading their nonsense. It works for me.

However, a lot of folks all across the Country are tired of the lies, the disrespect of our Nations leaders, and the phony "outrage" of the crazy right wing. It helps to remember that these are the same minority we saw cheering on Palin and the same folks who gave us 2 unfinished wars, torture, broke our laws, lied to us, turned a budget surplus into a deficit by giving our hard earned tax dollars to the richest 10% of the America as a "gift," ripped our Constitution -- especially the bill of rights -- to pieces, gave us secret government and execution squads answering only to Cheney, and ran our economy into the ground using neo-clasical (conservative) economic policies. In short...consider the source.

So in the end what do the crazies offer America?...more of the same.... So I just skip their comments and move on to the sane comments.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 6:20 AM

NanaDot; I have enjoyed your posts for months, and have come to believe that you are in many respects a kindred spirit. Perhaps after a hiatus you will post again, I certainly hope so.

I appreciate your reasons for signing off. For the same reasons I am posting less frequently, and have considered discontinuing all together.

Often when I begin to read the blog these days much of the content it is the same repetitive stuff, which I scroll through. I may take a break myself.

The thought has occurred to me to post something fresh, which I try to do now and then. Usually it gets lost in the sheer volume of continued alarmist warnings, and counter attacks. That is likely due to lack of interest in what I have written, and I can live with that. It is no fun though to wade through post after post to find the rare response to what I have posted, or to what others have posted that I find interesting. Like all things this blog is fluid. It is at a point that I find less interesting. This to shall pass.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 2:43 AM

Upsedaisy, your comments about family out bow hunting brought back some of the same memories. Back in my 20s I had a hunting bow, but I never hunted with it - just target shooting. I do believe hunting deer with a bow helps even the odds for the animal. The woman who cuts my hair recently told me about a herd of deer coming into her back yard and her tiny dog tearing out toward them. She ran afer the dog and nearly met a big buck head on. She said she made a quick u turn and raced back to the house, her dog right on her heels.

One last thought about the squirrels and then I'll leave them be. I think it was a news report I saw about a guy whose outdoor Christmas lights kept losing bulbs. It went on for a period of time so he put out a camera and it captured a squirrel in the act as it removed bulbs from the string and carried them off. They can be destructive, as you well know, but they're pretty clever little critters.

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 11:36 PM

and if he had turned down the invitation as you suggest what would have then been said? President Obama hates Christian Universities?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 11:08 PM

I don't think president Obama would have had any personal objection to showing any religious symbology. I do think however that his staff thought it best to err on the side of prudence.

Had they actually went ahead and displayed the symbols then I have no doubt there would of course been a backlash because of it. This takes me back to my original point.

Damned if he does,damned if he doesn't.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 11:06 PM

Separation of church and state has nothing to do with the situation when a College invites the President to speak at the graduation ceremony. If the President cannot stand there at a RELIGIOUS school WITH their religious symbols in plain view, then it seems illogical and dumb for him to even be there in the first place.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 10:10 PM

One last thing about the religion issue. Obama was basically forced to discuss religion during the campaign because of the rumors about him being Muslim and not Christian. If that hadn't been part of the smear campaign against him, I doubt it would have come up any more than any other past presidential campaign.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 9:57 PM

I'm afraid that I will have to disagree about the religious symbols. Separation of church and state has always been one of the basis of our government (although a controversial issue, to be sure) so I don't think it's so bad that President Obama is following that.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 9:55 PM

mr. xray,

I'm really not trying to break the cease fire. However, I just want to point out that when I started looking into your post about President Obama making September 11 a Day of Service, I discovered that he didn't actually initiate that.

Congress passed the Edward M. Kennedy Serve America Act this past March. In it, September 11 is set as a Day of Service.

The President was observing the first Day of Service according to the new law.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 9:52 PM

Hat full: I guess either you misread or you did not read. It makes no difference. I was pointing out that he claims to be Christian to get elected., Then he hids ALL symbols of religion whereever he speaks. Except when he wants to push a "service to country" agenda in the ceremony at the Pentagon, that was supposed to honor the dead and respect their family members, he THEN uses all sorts of Christian phrases and references. My point AGAIN was that of political expediency and hypocracy

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 9:52 PM

Hat Full and Kathy: Hat Full brings up another instance that I forgot about. Obama DID demand that Notre Dame cover up a whole wall with a what, a drapery.... I guess that is where I got the whole sheet thing. LOL Again, It is sad when the President of the US is not confident in his own self and his own message and that this causes him to feel insecure in front of religious symbols. I mean he did campaign on the idea that he was Christian did he not?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 9:49 PM

So I want to make sure that I fully understand. You don't like the wall being covered because you are against the separation of church and state? Or are you saying that the president should have picked a different spot for his speech and not had the wall covered?

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 9:46 PM

What the f.... again, I make no claim to Einsteinmanship but I DO realize every president has an agenda. Obama seems to have a very large agenda. My point about agendas is that O should have had the decency to NOT push the agenda of placing "a day of service" into a day of rememberance. I find that callous and insensitive during a ceremony of that nature. Again, did I say no other president has not done the same thing? Nope, just that we were discussing THIS instance and I stated I thought it was wrong thing at the wrong time.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 9:44 PM

xray,

I had actually already done that and found the info about covering up a wall that was full of religious statues and symbols.

I guess that I thought when plywood was mentioned that we were talking about something small rather than a whole wall at Georgetown University.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 9:43 PM

Hat full: Do a simple Google search of "Obama georgetown, covering religious symbols"

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 9:41 PM

mr xray,

could you post that link again, please? I missed and can't seem to find it.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 9:38 PM

What the f....: I never made the point about believing in any religion. If YOU reread my posts, I specifically was discussing the fact that this specific issue was a prime example of political expediency on the part of Obama.

If you can, in your own mind, make yourself feel better by saying that Obama had nothing to do with that, instead it was "his staff" or whatever, then that is great. I am a firm believer that if you take the office of the President of the US, then you take responsibility for all actions of your staff. He could have told his staff, once this became public, to not cover the symbols. Simple. He did not. Simple I dont care one way or the other, I just think you should stick to one set of ideals. Either allow religious symbols everywhere you go, as each different religion is part of our nation's culture, OR you completely stay away from any reference to religiion ESPECIALLY during a time of sad rememberance....

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 9:29 PM

I must have missed something? NanaDot is leaving for what reason?

She says "stuff it" because I say we're all consumers now? I don't get it..

What really is the problem with NanaDot?

** TC- I am a citizen of this nation, among several other potential descriptors - but 'consumer' as YOU use it is NOT one of them... stuff it.

-- Posted by Third Child on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 9:25 PM

Kathy: Lol You asked for my source. I posted it and it showed that was a piece of wood instead of a piece of material. So sorry for the mild mix up. But it still has no bearing on the point that was made. They could have even demanded that those symbols just be completely removed from the stage and the point would STILL be the same. We can debate freedom of speech and inaccuracies all day long but that ONLY distracts from the basic point.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 9:23 PM

Everyone, mrxray, everyone - you, me, the guy next door, the guy on TV, the woman on the radio -ALL OF US - have a duty to be sure that what we repeat is the truth. To do anything else is irresponsible. An honest mistake is one thing, but take another look at what you posted and compare it with what the actual source that YOU cited said - do you not see that they are FAR apart?

It matters not whether this is "the ways things are done in politics." What matters, whether the subject is President Obama, former President Bush, or anyone else in or out of the public eye, is that we all take the responsiblity with our free speech to make sure that we've got the story straight.

That particular detail of free speech seems to have been utterly ignored, especially recently.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 9:20 PM

mrxray,

What's this? Obama has an agenda? Look Einstein, every president from Washington to Obama has had an agenda and will push for it at any place and time. Even you mrxray would have an agenda if your were president. That's why people become president. Now wheter or not a person agree's with a particular president's agenda is another story but please don't act as if an agenda is something that has just appeared with this administration.

As far as covering symbols within the camera view with a neutral background prior to his televised speech, it sounds as if that is standard protocol via the white house.

I find it hard to believe that Obama personally requested it or that he's the first president that it's ever been done for. Besides, this is a perfect example of how ridiculous organized religion is in the first place. Your offended because it was covered yet had it not been and was seen on TV then someone on a different religious "team" would have been offended.

Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 9:19 PM

mrxray: It does matter in the details because that is the way some of the more ridiculous junk that floats around the internet gets there. The single incident that did occur somehow morphed into something that happened in multiple places on multiple occasions and that is simply not true. Your own source proved it. This is what people go nuts over - the repeated stuff that simply is not true, did not happen, all of it overblown and ridiculous.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 9:12 PM

Well Usedaisy: Dont feed more than 3 squirrels if you live inside City limits of Marshall, you will get fined.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 9:12 PM

Yes, I pointed out the cost. Thanks for noticing.

So basically, what you're saying is that President Obama is a politician. Did anyone tell you he wasn't? Shame on them!

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 9:11 PM

Hat Full: really? did anyone make a point about the cost? I was simply addressing your ideal that somehow Obama is above the normal political game and pointed out ONE of many ways that Obama is politically expedient just like every other Politician. He comes from one of the roughest political stages in our nation, Chicago.....

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 9:00 PM

Attorney General Ashcroft spent taxpayers' money (to the tune of $8,000.00) to have the statue of Justice draped in the Justice Department.

I don't know much about a religious symbol being covered with plywood but I bet it cost a lot less than Ashcroft's boobie coverage.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 8:48 PM

Hi Slater,

Your wife is right. Squirrels are rodents. Bane of neighbors who do feed the birds. But ca-ching for merchants selling, "squirrel proof"bird feeders. My pet peeve is that they will take a notion to demolish my flowers too. Osteosporum is a particular favorite each fall. Earlier, in the summer, one took out an entire section of plants to make a nest under the leaves of hostas. An architectural marvel, but left a big hole. There are many, many here and they love to torment "great-Grand-Dog"

Bow hunting season for deer opened today. My young marine and his Dad have been sitting in their stands for hours. He told me they were down to a pound of meat in the freezer, so hope they are successful. He harvested three eight pointers last year plus one fine doe.

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 8:43 PM

Tire Tarriffs... protectionisn has never really worked long term. How does the logic work to tax Chinese Tires to make up for the high cost that Unions infuse into US tire costs?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 8:40 PM

And, according to your source, the symbol was covered with a piece of black-painted plywood, not a sheet.

I'm not making this up - the source you cited is very clear on the details.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 10:13 AM

mrxray: This happened in April of this year. He wasn't "campaigning" in the strict sense of the word - he was already president by then.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 10:00

Again, does it matter the exact specifics to my point? Sheet, plywood, fancy backdrop... whatever. The point AGAIN was that it was politically expedient for Obama to cover religious symbols at that time in a setting that was an obvious place of religion to any one who knows Georgetown University. But at the Pentagon on Friday 9/11/09 Obama was again using politically expedient tactics by invoking Christian phrases and scriptures to comfort those who still grieve for their family members who were lost 8 years ago. In my opinion, he was arrogant and insensitive in pushing his Agenda of "forced service to the Government" by announcing the "First annual day of service and rememberence" at such an event in front of such people. He cannot refuse any opportunity to push agenda instead of just saying something simple and comforting and moving out.

My question remains though, since our President made it politically correct to utilize religion at an official government function does that now mean we can end the debate about religion/government in our nation and allow prayer in schools and religious Christmas decorations in our schools and government offices?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 8:34 PM

Upsedaisy, I didn't know you had any interest in the "devil's" music, as some call it (my brother included). I'm pleased that you enjoyed it. Kathy most likely did not, since she said their later music is all noise. I would have to agree with her about a few of their later tunes.

Yep, we've had a bit of moisture, but probably too much too quickly, as is the usual way. I hope my trees got a good drink. I think we had over 4" out here.

My daughter has a few hummingbird feeders out at her place, and she tells me the squirrels are always trying to get to them. I told her to put out some water and maybe they'll stay away from the feeders.

We share the yard with a big, fat squirrel who loves to tease the dog. He's so bold that he comes up on the deck frequently and occasionally will come over to the door and look in. My wife calls it "that rat with the bushy tail."

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 8:30 PM

Say it ain't so, Nanadot.

Each day, I will think of you w/my one cup of coffee as I watch the hummingbirds frolic in my serendipity garden. They are quick as a wink, which certainly sums up your wit and wisdom.

Thank you, Slater, loved the Beetles piece. Saw TX received some much needed rain today.

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 7:08 PM

NanaDot,

Come on back, please.

You have a strong group of supporters here...real patriots...who are standing with you. Come back and don't allow some pathetic neocon scare you off. Your friends WILL stand with you no matter what!

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 5:12 PM

And one last thing before I call it a day:

Third Child, you have claimed we are censoring you heavily. That's quite an overstatement. Relative to the sheer numbers of your posts, we have removed relatively few.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 4:45 PM

NanaDot: Sorry you're saying good0bye, but do understand your reasons.

Now about Charlie Sheen and John Wayne - let's be clear about who thinks they're "admirable" in some way. Third Child started the party with his assertion that Sheen is some kind of genius, at risk of life and limb and career for merely stating his opinion, which is just plain balderdash.

John Wayne was also brought to the table by the aforementioned Third Child.

Everyone else who mentioned these two actors was commenting on Third Child's mention of them. Hat Full of Sky did *not* speak of them in a positive sense.

Just clearing up some of the, uh, gosh, what to call it? Okay, I know, "confusion."

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 4:43 PM

So long, ND. I'll always be reminded of you whenever I see a Volkswagen. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 4:22 PM

Very well stated, Dawson, and thanks for your compassion.

God knows I'm far from being the kind of person He wants us all to be, but on occasion I try to behave in a more tolerant manner. :)

Incidentally, I did see that burrito-making video. Pretty funny.

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 4:07 PM

I don't think anyone wants a ceasefire, Eric. We like to argue.

:)

-- Posted by Dawson16 on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 3:52 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
So I see!

I just have to state one more time that I am please that the Census Bureau finally woke up and realized that a problem ACORN is and that I hope politicians in DC demand an investigation into all of their fraud, mismanagment or embezzlement of money, corruption, and criminal actions in the Pimp/prostitute scandal. Tax payers money, with no choice by the tax payer, is being sent to ACORN via stimulus bills and now the health care bill if it passes. We cannot continue to tell ourselves that this is are isolated cases......

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 3:50 PM

And by the way, you really need to re-evaluate your opinion of Charlie Sheen. Bravery? John Wayne? Founding Fathers? Give me a break!

I can understand debate about the morals between John Wayne and Charlie Sheen. But to compare either to our founding fathers? Maybe I missed some discussion on here Hat Full Of Sky, but come on, you cannot honestly compare Sheen to the founding fathers.

Anyway, if YOU are defending Sheen please, PLEASE give me some sort of reference material for your opinion. The ONLY thing you can be saying is that YOU believe Bush and his Admin allowed, no planned and conducted the actions at the trade center, Pentagon and the other plane that crashed in PA. I really cannot wait to hear your statement regarding this. lol

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 3:46 PM

Gee, I don't know Third Child,

What exactly have you "proven"? As to Alex Jones why should his or your opinion receive anymore credibility than those of anyone on this board? You scream about "Obama the Messiah" when your messiah is clearly Alex Jones. You cry about those who deny the "truth". Who's truth? What truth? Is it your truth Third Child? Could you possibly be the only one on this board who can digest information into the one divine truth?

I really don't think so. Maybe you could get a charter and start the "First Church of Alex".

Hmmmm.......I wonder what his holy trinity would be? Perhaps "Fodder, Gun and the holy post".

At least then you could get a tax exemption. What proof have you offered Third Child? Links to a third rate website that has no legal or moral obligation to present the facts is hardly my idea of real proof.

Hey, you have the right to believe what you want but your incessant brow beating and hijacking of this forum with infowars this and prison planet that is wearing quite thin. We get it. What do you expect anyway? Do you expect everyone here to experience some kind of epiphany? That tommorrow we will all bow and pray to Alex? Not likely.

Ever heard the phrase: "tis better to be thought a fool and say nothing than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"?

You would do well to remember it.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 3:40 PM

I'm declaring a ceasefire.

(Yeah, I know. Armistices never last. But they provide a nice break.)

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 3:25 PM

Oh good! If you stop responding to me, the list will be changed into a place when intellectual discourse can once more take place.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 3:23 PM

TC,

You calling me a list bully is nothing more than the pot calling the kettle black.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 3:22 PM

Dawson,

I'm not sure why you want to continue to take my words as an insult to paraprofessionals and others with high school degrees.

I have stated several times that I was not in any way, shape or form, attempting to belittle high school education.

I will apologize a second time and I hope you are able to accept it.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 3:20 PM

Slater - I'm with you on the philosophy this time too. And for that matter I wasn't ready to condemn you for having a different view than my own....

-- Posted by broke-n-busted on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 3:07 PM

Hatfull, You prove my case. You will not, and can not, prove the assertions that anyone is lying. I have proven your intellectual vacuity. You have proven your intellectual dishonesty and now it's cowardice. I think my work here is done. A great load is relieved off my shoulders and on my psyche. The fresh air of outdoors calls me. You have been intellectually neutered and proven to be an uncredible witness. Truth speaks to power and you have no power. Speaking to you is fruitless and I don't want to continue.

The case is closed on you buddy.

I would appreciate it if you would stop trying to deflect my attention from matters at hand. I know you will continue but you will be struck down as it occurs. Do yourself a favor and just give it up. If you wish to make any other derogatory assertions or challenges against the truth, and that is really your target, please don't come so unprepared for battle. This is really the wild west when it comes to communication and disrupters and disinformation disseminators like yourself are going to be called out and exposed for your actions.

You can't be the list bully if you are not intellectually prepared. This isn't the school yard and words are the boss. They have to have meaning and your's don't have any.

So do us all a favor and give it up. You've tried to make your point and failed. You never had anywhere to go with this but down the tube. You lost this argument, do you have another?

Your disinformation has no power in the light of day.

What else ya got?

-- Posted by Third Child on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 3:06 PM

Slater, that was very kind of you to say what you did about Third Child. I absolutely hate when people make fun of other people for their beliefs and that happens on here often.

I like to imagine that when God looks upon the souls of all of us, he sees no difference. We are each the same to Him.

Unfortunately, among us humans, we can't quite see to that depth in a person.

-- Posted by Dawson16 on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 3:04 PM

hat full, you're wandering all over the place with this.

You said, "You don't have to agree with me and many people don't because he obviously has a large following."

I'm not sure who the "he" is you refer to. I assume the Alex Jones that several have mentioned. That's not what I originally wrote about. I have never visited his website nor heard him on the radio. I am not defending him because I don't know anything about him other than what I've read on here.

My concern was, and still is, that you gave disrespect to people who have high school educations with no further formal education. You still haven't addressed your original statement, nor the reorganized one afterward.

And you said, "Hosting a radio show can be done with a quality high school education (although running the machinery requires a specific education)."

I disagree. Running the machinery requires a specific training, not education. High school and college students, and older adults who have no higher education, often work part-time in radio stations. They are trained for that particular job and with the proper training can do it well.

You don't need to apologize to me. You need to apologize to all the para-professionals (and many others) out there who do the same quality and standard of work that someone with a college degree does.

What's that saying? Goes something like --- Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit but wisdom is knowing not to use it in a fruit salad.

-- Posted by Dawson16 on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 2:57 PM

"You are posting from a position of ignorance, bolstered by an unmitigated arrogance that belies the true nature of your intellectual cowardice. All in my opinion, of course.

The only way you are going to change that opinion, and those that may agree with me, would be for you to hike up yer britches buddy, and provide something besides hot air to your empty assertions.

You have stated that people are lying. Show us the lies. Put up or shut up. Please stop the anonymous heckling because we're tired of empty bleatings."

Right back atcha!

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 2:21 PM

Thanks for the compliment, B-N-B. Music definitely is a universal language.

The Beatles found it impossible to deal with carrying the weight of their success as it encroached upon their personal lives, and such is the case with ordinary people as they confront their daily trials and tribulations. We all have our burdens to bear; some find it less difficult than others. Music, for me, is one way to aid in understanding the world.

Pardon the philosophical intonation. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 2:16 PM

"So any attack on the people you choose to believe is based on stupidity"

No, the word I would use instead of "stupidity" would be 'ignorance'. It's not a crime to be ignorant but that's not a viable foundation to be making any valid arguments against something you admit to having such an uninformed opinion on.

One more time, and very respectfully, I will ask you to substantiate your accusations that anything I have stated or any of Alex Jones's voluminous broadcasts or writings are outrageous lies, as you have proclaimed.

It's pretty simple, really. If you call someone a liar to their face, you risk the consequences. Especially if you can't back up your assertions with even a weak argument. You just aren't going to get away with it.

The same applies here. You are called out to back your assertions. The fact that all of your accusations have been made from the presumed safety of your anonymous keyboard, notwithstanding.

You are posting from a position of ignorance, bolstered by an unmitigated arrogance that belies the true nature of your intellectual cowardice. All in my opinion, of course.

The only way you are going to change that opinion, and those that may agree with me, would be for you to hike up yer britches buddy, and provide something besides hot air to your empty assertions.

You have stated that people are lying. Show us the lies. Put up or shut up. Please stop the anonymous heckling because we're tired of empty bleatings.

You now have the floor, Mr. Hat full.

Proceed to make your case.

-- Posted by Third Child on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 2:12 PM

Slater - Listened to that one twice. I don't always back your philosophical or political opinions but your taste in music is impeccable.

-- Posted by broke-n-busted on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 1:47 PM

Dawson,

I apologize if I am still casting dispersions on a high school education. In no way, do I mean to do that.

What I am saying is that there are certain requirements for certain tasks. I wouldn't show up at your work and presume to tell you how to do it because I probably don't have background in that field.

When you go to a doctor, you want them to be trained. If someone has to seek the attention of a psychologist, they would want them to have qualifications.

Hosting a radio show can be done with a quality high school education (although running the machinery requires a specific education). But I feel that deciding how the country should be run requires more than a high school education. You don't have to agree with me and many people don't because he obviously has a large following.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 1:39 PM

Thanks Wonder Jim for the tire advice. I have moved it to my shopping information file. Thanks also for your funny about the Lifeline answering service in Pakistan. "Can you drive a truck."

It gave my husband's aunt who is 92 a good laugh too. Her mind is still sharper than 75% of the population. Body going downhill, so she wears a Life Alert. "Tetchy" things. I hugged her and soon had the Life Alert people checking on her!

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 1:36 PM

tc : "It just gets my goat to be repeatedly called a liar on factual issues and being called racist based solely on someone's un-substantiated anonymous opinion."

Response: Your anonymous opinion is just as unsubstantiated as mine -- possibly more so.

tc: "insane rantings of people jealous of Alex Jones and the power of the INFO War that he yields."

Response: I love it when people say "well, you're just jealous!" Point proven.

tc: "What Charlie Sheen is doing is braver than anything John Wayne ever did and the Founding Fathers are smiling in their graves that patriots like Charlie Sheen are standing up for thruth and justice, and taking a chance to have their heads knocked off for doing so, by people that just don't understand what this whole issue is about."

Response: So any attack on the people you choose to believe is based on stupidity -- we can't possibly understand what this whole issue is about but YOU do.

And by the way, you really need to re-evaluate your opinion of Charlie Sheen. Bravery? John Wayne? Founding Fathers? Give me a break!

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 1:32 PM

Everyone have a look at TC's remarks to Editor Crump and see the sincerity in his words.

I don't defend his postings in their entirety, but also I don't believe that he thinks of us as non-humans, either.

TC, here's what I'm thinking at the moment:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYwvJbkaD...

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 12:57 PM

I'm sorry to complain Eric, as I know you really have a tough job trying to keep the paper respectable. I apologize for adding stress to your life. I can see what you are up against and I don't envy the position you are given. It's impossible to make everyone happy and you can't be expected to follow every little nuance of the public's arguments and cat fights.

I really think you are doing a stellar job and I salute and respect your efforts to maintain civility. It just gets my goat to be repeatedly called a liar on factual issues and being called racist based solely on someone's un-substantiated anonymous opinion.

This does get my blood pressure up, as is the intention of the race baiters and truth denyers and I respond accordingly. I will try to tone it down and I apologize again for any stress that I am offloading upon you.

Carry on with the good work and I will try and restrain my reactions to these untruthful attacks.

-- Posted by Third Child on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 12:41 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Thank you, Third Child. I appreciate the effort. I know well from personal experience how difficult restraint and civility can be!

Hat Full,

I'm not necessarily defending the state of Texas, but I would like to hear your explanation of how its politics of education are substandard to any other state.

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 12:30 PM

Hat full o' and others can blast us repeatedly, hate mongering that we are all racist in our dissent to the 6.25% black messiah but when someone takes him to task for that race mongering, the editors at MDN delete and remove the reply and send it to the big ol' black memory hole of a free speech death pit.

It's hard for me to keep up with all the censorship but I'm doing my best to keep it all in a bunch of jumbled up files. I will try to edit the good parts out and repost at Saline County Consumer, yahoo group, sometime in the near future. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/salinecoun...

In the mean time, if anyone else feels that their comments should not have been censored by the editors, they can feel free to post and discuss their comments freely at Saline County Consumer. *Cause we're all consumers now!

-- Posted by Third Child on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 12:10 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Comments that include personal attacks on other users tend to get deleted.

Cheetah: I wonder if there's any credible source that has information on exactly which U.S. tire makers do or do not make tires elsewhere. A couple of articles I read this morning indicated tariffs imposed on China would simply move the manufacturing process to smaller, mostly Asian, countries and have little effect on restoring jobs in the U.S., while making the point I posted earlier, that "most" U.S. manufacturers do have China operations.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 11:53 AM

WTF, I do my best to ignore you because of your credibility thing and the harrasment but to answer your answer, the links you posted are the insane rantings of people jealous of Alex Jones and the power of the INFO War that he yields. Simple as that. They are rantings of very disturbed people and I wonder why you believe them.

I have yet to see one little bitty bit of evidence that Alex Jones has given any information that is not backed up with research, documentation, and corroboration from hundreds of respectable scholars and professionals.

WTF, there are millions of pages, and thousands of hours of video and audio of Alex Jones ranting his head off. Hours and hours, on end, of facts, info and documentation.

Is it shocking? Yes. That is the point. People are living in denial of the true facts and the impact on their existence. Denial is fear. Fear of the unimaginable in our fantasy and chemically addled minds.. Why are you afraid to face the truth, WTF and Hatfull? Why do you cling to obvious lies and denounce the truth that is right before your very eyes? Why do you protest so much without supplying any valid arguments of your case?

Any intelligent person that feels the way you and others that believe the same should have no problem at all at finding one little fib that you could hang on Alex Jones.

Why don't you see what you can do and let us know?

http://www.infowars.com/

http://www.prisonplanet.com/

-- Posted by Third Child on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 11:17 AM

*Are we supposed to look toward Hollywood for our moral guidance now?

I hate to break the news to you Xray, but hollywood has been injecting morals and intellectual dogmas into the public from day one.

What do you think John Wayne was all about? If you knew more of what he really was in real life you may not be so disrespectful of Charlie Sheen.

What Charlie Sheen is doing is braver than anything John Wayne ever did and the Founding Fathers are smiling in their graves that patriots like Charlie Sheen are standing up for thruth and justice, and taking a chance to have their heads knocked off for doing so, by people that just don't understand what this whole issue is about.

People do look to hollywood for the cues they use to pattern their lives. Instead of discounting that fact, understand it and the reasons we are in the predicament we face as a nation and the world.

Charlie is putting his lucrative carreer on the line, risking his life, because he is a Patriot that loves his country. He is tired of the lies and disinformation that is sucking our once proud nation down into the pits of hell. This ain't a game of checkers. You need to reconsider your instincts on this one. Charlie Sheen is the hero of this story.

-- Posted by Third Child on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 10:43 AM

hat-sky, you basically said the same thing over again!

"So in clarification, what I should have said is that the gentleman in question is probably not educated enough to have a grasp of the nuances of diplomacy required for politics."

I intrepret this to mean that you think a high school education is not qualification enough to be in the political field or host a radio talk show. Isn't that what you are saying?

-- Posted by Dawson16 on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 10:40 AM

In regards to Alex Jones:

http://www.erichufschmid.net/TFC/Alex-Jo...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJ82zk8yc...

http://www.ronpaulwarroom.com/?p=7403

http://theydontseethroughus.blogspot.com...

http://www.freedomhaters.org/content/ale...

I could go on post links ad naseum but you get the point.

Now, Third Child,

Before you blast me about the "credibility" of any of these links and ask why I think you should believe any of it I would ask the same about Alex Jones, Infowars, Prison Planet etc.

Unfortunately too much of our so called "news" these days is based on opinion, not actual fact. Or if any facts are actually cited the are probably the victim of hyperbole and embellishment.

In my opinion, Alex Jones, Infowars,Prison Planet and probably any other internet site don't give two hoots about what is and isn't factual, but rather what can be most sensationalized.

Follow the money.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 10:38 AM

And, according to your source, the symbol was covered with a piece of black-painted plywood, not a sheet.

I'm not making this up - the source you cited is very clear on the details.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 10:13 AM

mrxray: This happened in April of this year. He wasn't "campaigning" in the strict sense of the word - he was already president by then.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 10:00 AM

Hat full of sky: It is ok for you to hold Texas in disdain for YOUR opinion yet those who oppose Obama are not able to exercise the same freedom without you belittling their opinions?

PS hard labor and capital punishment are not that bad of punishment for some things

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 9:53 AM

Dawson,

I have great respect for people who try to educate themselves, no matter what their level of public education might be. So in clarification, what I should have said is that the gentleman in question is probably not educated enough to have a grasp of the nuances of diplomacy required for politics. His role seems to be to say as many outrageous things as possible to keep the money flowing in. That's fine but his listeners should have the whole story. It's no different than a talk show "therapist" dispensing therapy when they are not qualified to do so, based on education requirements.

Also, my disdain for Texas is based on their educational policies and their capital punishment policies, among other things.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 9:47 AM

Obama told all the school kids about the founding fathers, that they sat where the kids do today, 250 years ago, and went on to found the country* (paraphrased cause i'm lazy) Correct me if I'm wrong.. Anyway, a lot of the founding fathers spent very little time in brick and mortar, institutionalized indoctrination centers. A lot of our founders were the original HOME schoolers.. and THEY went on to found the country.. all 57 states, as Obama stated in the geography lesson he gave to us during his ONE BILLION DOLLAR ELECTION CAMPAIGN.

A thousand million dollars to get elected and most all of that MONEY CAME from WALL STREET BANKERS!

How could that ever go wrong for the American people..

-- Posted by Third Child on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 9:39 AM

my point was not university versus universities. My point was that he was AT, by his CHOICE a religious university. To demand that they cover those religious symbols up for HIM while he was campaigning then to turn around later and invoke the same religious phrases while at a ceremony for the survivors of the pentagon 9/11 memorial seems to be to be hypocritical and politically expedient on both instances. I think the normal every day person would understand that IF he was at a religious university then there would inherently be symbols of said religion and even though he was campaigning we common folk would realize that he may not agree with that specific religion. I mean we common folk are purty smart even if we dont have harvard edumacation papers

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 9:34 AM

mrxray: What do you think would have been said if the religious symbols had *not* been covered? I think the problem is that for some people, the president can't do anything right - cover them up and he looks like he's against Christianity or fail to cover them up and he looks like he's promoting religion, which he shouldn't be doing in a country that has as a founding principle, separation of church and State. One thing I have to point out is that this appears to be the only university where this occurred - so even though you cited a good source, in my opinion, it's not fair to say he did this at "universities." Can we at least agree on that?

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 9:28 AM

Abraham Lincoln was a self taught student of law that became President of the United States...

In fact there is no constitutional requirement that you have an education at all to run for political office. That is a product of the the elitist universities that have tuition so high that the common folk cannot attend without a whole lot of sacrifice.... strange aint it

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 9:20 AM

hat-sky, I'm surprised that no one called you on this comment you made yesterday.

"This is a man who armed with a high school education (from Texas, no less) who claims to understand the intricate field of world politics."

Isn't that being disrespectful of people who have a high school degree only and not additional education? Please explain if you meant otherwise.

And the Texas reference, too, reeks of disrespect. C'mon now. What's wrong with Texas?

-- Posted by Dawson16 on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 9:13 AM

mrxray: You said, "he required any symbols of christian religion to be covered in sheets during his campaign stops at Universities." Please cite your source. I find this truly unbelievable.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 8:56 AM

link to story. http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local-...

The spin regarding this story was something like they were just trying to not offend anyone or that they were trying to NOT have the symbols appear out of context. But I ask you, how is showing the symbols at a religious university out of context?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 9:05 AM

Just for the record, Charlie Sheen has had one too many cocaine/whiskey cocktails. What a whack job. Are we supposed to look toward Hollywood for our moral guidance now?

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 9:01 AM

mrxray: You said, "he required any symbols of christian religion to be covered in sheets during his campaign stops at Universities." Please cite your source. I find this truly unbelievable.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 8:56 AM

"But to deny that a great deal of racism flavors the nature of the attacks is sheer ignorance. Let's take our heads out of the sand and recognize the dangers."

Hat full of Sky that is your words. I am not sure that YOU are qualified to speak for all people and what is inside their hearts. I find that arrogant.

I also find that any attempt to state that any or all that oppose Obama care must be racist is an argument that is nothing but racial intimidation and intellectually empty. I am not saying you stated that specifically that is how I interpreted what you said.

Just because Obama preached a hypnotic sermon about hope and change does not necessarily mean that is what he believes in. He is a politician that says politically expedient things as with any politician. Want the most recent example that I saw? Friday at the Pentagon, he invoked VERY Christian statements and phrases because it was politically expedient to sound "good" to those who lost families yet he required any symbols of christian religion to be covered in sheets during his campaign stops at Universities. That, to me, is hypocritical.

I find the lack of true 'vetting' of any of his Czars appalling and the lack of public vetting of all of Obama's ties to ACORN and SEIU. In the words of another of Obama's radical associates, Obama's Chickens are coming home to roost with Van Jones, and now ACORN. It was not JUST the two locations that were more than willing to support the "pimp and Prostitute" and did not even flinch at the mention of underage prositution, it is many other areas where the ACORN group is being charged with fraud and corruption and that has accounting games going on that few in Congress are willing to address YET we, the tax payers, sent them millions in the stimulus bills and now with the health care bill. It is impossible to separate the man, Obama, from the MANY associates and affiliations that he has had and is still surrounding himself with. If the HOPE and CHANGE you are wanting lies within that ring of chicago political corruption game then that is sad.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 8:51 AM

Dawson16: About Chinese-made tires - it's going to be tough for the average consumer to figure out which ones they are. Business Week said recently that "Most major U.S. tiremakers manufacture tires in China."

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 8:47 AM

For those of you who are concerned about corporate campaign contributions, your concern will escalate if you have not heard of or read about one of the cases being considered by the Supreme Court this term. Its outcome will have far-reaching effects on future campaigns for all parties. Excellent and unbiased information on the topic can be found here:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0908/p02s0...

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 8:41 AM

I agree that money is a problem when it comes to our campaign process and our government. Some of the ideas discussed on this blog have potential in addressing those problems.

But I find it sad how hard people try to deny racism exists. Say it with me, people, we are all racist in our own ways. The difference comes when we recognize that fact and realize it's based on fear. We can take steps to combat our racism.

Now I agree that the First Amendment is one of the tenets of our country -- indeed, one of the reasons many people came here. And I enjoy the give and take of a good debate, whether over what movie to watch tonight or over politics.

I also realize that the conservatives are dishing out the same type of verbal attacks that have been directed at former President Bush for the past 8 years. And I believe that if you dish it out, you have to be willing to take it.

But to deny that a great deal of racism flavors the nature of the attacks is sheer ignorance. Let's take our heads out of the sand and recognize the dangers.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 7:49 AM

I have some observations for every day.

1. Blessings to hurting people everywhere, whether from illness, the actions of others, or their own fears.

2. It is a good day for to have President who believes passionately that we are human beings first, no matter what our religions may be.

3. May hope in the innate integrity of people guide us through the darkness of fear and hate. Let us remember that an association with one chapter of a organization with good purpose does not connect every single person in the organization with those who use the organization to abuse that purpose.

4. Lastly: It is sad that with all the racism and hate exposed locally and nationally that it is almost a forgotten fact that the Twin Towers and many other prominent buildings in our country were built either by people who were not born in this country and by people who were exploited to get the very land that the building rests on.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 7:38 AM

I agree. however, I think ALL money for campaigns and the special interest money should be removed. The very idea of money = fair representation is so stupid that I cannot even comprehend how that even came into existence as an excuse for the amount of money that is used to fund elections. Why not just have a few REAL debates with unprepared questions for all candidates broadcast on all the main TV and radio stations, with a small compensation given to the TV and radio stations for their time with NO commercials being sold during those debates. Then put an end to Commercials for campaigning?

The amount of money involved inherently attracts the people who will abuse it and will not be in "politics" for the right reasons.... this is why we have the problems with the health care debate and any other attempt to acheive bigger government

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 3:33 AM

Mrxray the only way we can correct the problem in Washington is to take the private donors (some call them bribers) out of campaign financing.

That means taxpayer financed elections, wherein all viable candidates have equal exposure to the voters.

We can lower the cost of the campaigns by shortening the allowed campaign periods. Just think we wouldn't have to listen to candidates sell us snake oil in thirty second ads for a year and a half. There is reason enough to make the change.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 2:58 AM

AF Brat, I was thinking the same thing about you and a few others but I didn't think it was appropriate to say so.. Too rude, dude..

-- Posted by Third Child on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 12:33 AM

Sorry I have to make another comment. I find it sad that the people supporting Obama and the Democrat party leadership have to resort to calling people racist merely for disagreeing with Obama. Our nation was founded one the EXACT principle of disagreement with the opressive government in England. We loudly and angrily took to the street and protested. We first protested within the "game" of British government and when they turned a deaf ear we fought a war we should not have been able to win. Even today, debate, argument, disagreement are the mechanisms in which the public and the politicians are supposed to use to come up with good policies. The problem is NOT racism, the problem is corruption in DC and the stupid amount of money that is tossed around in quest for the next re-election or even for personal gain by the dead heads in DC. How can you even begin to think that corrupt politics will NOT beget Corrupt policy? Corruption in DC knows no party lines, in fact is the main thing that enables bipartisanship. I mean every politician with their hand out can agree with getting it filled with money.

-- Posted by mrxray on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 12:26 AM

TC, why don't you get your own Blog. You are filling up the Comments section of the D-N and imposing on their hospitality, etc. Then we can go there if we desire or avoid it like a plague. ;-)

-- Posted by AF Brat on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 12:00 AM

Some observations for this day;

1. God bless and prayers to all hurt and affected by the actions of radical islamic terrorists on 9/11/2001.

2. It is a good day for christians. Obama,in his address at the Pentagon today, invoked the name of God and used many phrases to comfort those who lost family members on 9/11/2001 that were from Christian beliefs. Suddenly, when politically convenient, it is politcally correct to speak of God!

3. For all you performing artists formerly known as Pimps and Hos, if you want a new brothel....house, take a trip to your local ACORN office and they will direct you in how to score a house with a loan with funds from Uncle Sam and even encourage you to bring in illegal aliens who are underage to supplement your spending habits for drugs, furs and condoms.

4. The best note of the day came when the Census Bureau finally severed ties with ACORN.

5. Wonder why no other media outlet besides Fox played the video of ACORN misdeeds? Thank God for conservative YOUNG Americans that were NOT blinded by Hope and Change

6. Lastly: It is sad that the Empire State Building was built in about 400 days, yet we still have a hole in the ground and no new towers in the World Trade Center area in NYC.

-- Posted by mrxray on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 11:59 PM

It looks like all schools are hooked up with the same deal because I see little ones here, first week of school, out in the streets, all by themselves without any parents around.. don't they prosecute and take people's kids away for the same thing in Marshall?

The kids are being put at risk for all kinds of dangers by being 'jobbed out' like this. That's giving these kids a real education about how the world works, I guess. Child safety doesn't matter when it comes to profit. Safety is the issue of 'zero' tolerance where little Johnny goes to juvey hall with a criminal record for possessing a plastic butter knife in his lunch box, but not for slepping around the streets and stranger's doors after school!

Who are these people that make these decisions and why are parents putting up with it? The school wants doors knocked on by kids. Maybe someone ought to be knocking on the principal's door and finding out why they think this is such a great idea?

-- Posted by Third Child on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 11:22 PM

BTW, Kathy, peas are a fine food, even canned peas. Fresh peas go well on a salad. Some of us will happily eat them alongside of snakes and grubs, just fine.

-- Posted by AF Brat on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 11:03 PM

I just read Kathy's latest column in the D-N.

Yup. Weight loss and colesterol reduction are all tied directly to ACTUAL exercise. Not contemplating it, not merely owning the right machinery, but ACTUALLY using it. That's both the secret and the essential element of success.

I wouldn't have lost 40 pounds since January without exercise (which doesn't reduce weight but modifies your metabolism so calorie reduction [portion management -- diet] can outpace calorie savings as you lose weight).

There is no substitute for exercise. Repeat that, there is no substitute for ACTUAL exercise. None, however much we wish, desire, or imagine there is.

-- Posted by AF Brat on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 10:54 PM

No! I'm saying, fight only when you absolutely have to, and see that we have the rest of the world is in on the scuffle! We can not and should not Police the World! World War #2 was a hell of a lot different then what we have now! I was in on the Korean Conflict. And that was a lot of nonsense, along with Vietnam ! A lot of Brave, Loyal Men Dead, for Nonsense! I Salute them, and Condemn the People who sent them to die for no good reason!

-- Posted by Jo on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 10:36 PM

Slater, I do agree. Did you see the video of the astronauts making space burritos? Thought I'd laugh my head off when the eggs started to float away.

-- Posted by Dawson16 on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 10:35 PM

Dawson, you would agree that space.com is a cool site? Recently I looked at a slideshow of galaxies taken by Hubble. Amazing photos!

The harvest moon will be along soon, embellishing my favorite season. There's nothing better than fall in Missouri.

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 10:24 PM

movaldude,

May as well throw in the towel. Can't disappoint the kids. We went through this same thing a few years ago.

BTW, we got Woman's Day and TV Guide. Couple of years worth.

-- Posted by Dawson16 on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 10:16 PM

So, were you able to learn how much of your $12. goes to the school/organization?

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 10:16 PM

Spending my evening catching up with the goings on in the world today:

The Space Shuttle (from AP Science Writer, Alicia Chang):

EDWARDS AIR FORCE BASE, Calif. -- Space shuttle Discovery and its seven astronauts took a cross-country detour and landed safely in California on Friday after stormy weather prevented them from returning home to Florida for the second day in a row. Discovery swooped through the sky, breaking through clouds, and touched down at Edwards Air Force Base north of Los Angeles an hour before sunset, ending its delivery trip to the international space station. "Welcome home, Discovery," Mission Control radioed.

Always glad to hear when our astronauts arrive back safely.

===========================================

On Apologies (from CNN and AP):

"President Barack Obama says he accepts South Carolina Republican Rep. Joe Wilson's apology for shouting "You lie!" at the president during his speech to Congress Wednesday night. Obama says Wilson apologized "quickly and without equivocation."

I share his frustration about illegals and health care but Wilson shouldn't have shouted out like that. Kudos to both men for the apology and the acceptance of the apology.

===========================================

Star Gazing (from space.com):

The moon is at new phase on Sept. 18 and during this upcoming week will appear as a gradually diminishing crescent of light in the after midnight-hours, and won't be much of a hindrance to stargazing. This combined with the fact that at this particular time of the year the hazy skies of summer are giving way to clearer skies and cooler overnight temperatures means that this is an optimum week to check out the beautiful summer Milky Way.

=============================================

ACORN in the news again (from Hope Yen, AP writer):

The Census Bureau on Friday severed its ties with ACORN, a community organization that has been hit with Republican accusations of voter-registration fraud. "We do not come to this decision lightly," Census director Robert Groves wrote in a letter to ACORN, which was obtained by The Associated Press.

That's probably good news.

=============================================

Tires from China (from AP):

President Barack Obama decided Friday to slap punitive tariffs on all car and light truck tires entering the United States from China in a decision that could anger strategically important China but placate union supporters important to his health care push.

Need to check into this. How does one know if they have Chinese tires on their car?

=============================================

From Obama on 9/11: "Let us remember how we came together as one nation, as one people, as Americans, united not only in our grief, but in our resolve to stand with one another, to stand up for the country we all love."

Amen to that.

-- Posted by Dawson16 on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 10:16 PM

You won't believe that I was approached (this afternoon)by a parent (one of my former employees) to purchase not one but two so 2 out of 3 kids could sell something. So I bought two bags of chocolate covered pecans for $6.00 per bag. Same as the bags of snacks in Breaktime sell for $2.99. Oh well its just money.

I really like the kids and their mom and I would do anything to help them out (within my power) I know that many of the readers feel like that with kids, friends and parents. So in the end I guess I will continue to pay for lousy pizza, cookie dough, gift wrap, cheese, sausage, magazines (we have Midwest living paid up till 2014 in our house how long is your subscription?), and all the other un-needed stuff the kids will bring by.

-- Posted by movaldude on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 10:09 PM

*TC - too bad you don't consider any of us "people" or "human beings"...

Please explain?

-- Posted by Third Child on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 10:03 PM

That's correct, Dawson.

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 9:27 PM

Lots of posts from today to catch up with tonight. Don't you people have to work or did everyone have Patriot Day off? Surely you're not posting from work?!?

Slater, I think you're retired, if I remember?

-- Posted by Dawson16 on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 9:02 PM

Okay, maybe it's more like sarcastic humor, but either way I believe you got it.

I only know you from your posts, but behind them I see someone who has spent a portion of his life holding up a big shield against all the unwelcome aspects of the world, unwelcome and also maybe unwarranted intrusions, undeserved intrustions.

Maybe you'd want to prove me wrong, but I'd be willing to believe that people would see a different side of you if you could turn off the force field you've built around yourself.

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 6:27 PM

I love Saline County, Kathy. And all the consumers in it!

My roots are in Saline County. I have property there, what hasn't yet been adjudicated to the MEMORY HOLE at the COURTHOUSE!

Why do you ask?

-- Posted by Third Child on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 5:57 PM

It's hard to find out that you are the one in the house of cards. It can sometimes be misinterpreted as a personal attack.

poor tc.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 5:51 PM

**my joke wasn't even aimed at you.

That was a joke? Explain the punch line, please. I just don't get it..

*If you never find anything amusing, then I'd have to feel sadness for you.

I find the WORLD, gloriously funny, Drew. I laugh out loud every now and then because it is so **** funny what is happening right in front of our eyes. These are interesting times, my friend. And I'm just pleased as punch that my time of arrival on this planet has worked out so beautiful, in that I am privileged to witness what is coming about. These are the most exciting times ever of history and I am just thrilled to be here.

The truth will always come out. it can't be suppressed forever.. the house of cards is falling around the liars and the decievers..

Now that is funny.

You, not so much.

-- Posted by Third Child on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 5:32 PM

Just for the sake of curiousity, TC: You have said in the past that you drink Excelsior Springs water, which puts you in Clay or Ray County, not Saline County. Why not tag your "consumer group" with one of those counties?

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 5:21 PM

I'll be posting the "un-edited" file version of this tit fot tat, of who called whom, a liar... and people can see the truth to the matter... if they are so inclined..

For the time being, membership will be open. I'm not sure but maybe the file can be read without actually signing up on the list. Which is easy to do, and necessary if you care to comment.

"Saline County Consumers" at Yahoo groups

-- Posted by Third Child on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 5:07 PM

Well, TC, a chink in the old armor, eh? And my joke wasn't even aimed at you.

If you never find anything amusing, then I'd have to feel sadness for you.

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 4:58 PM

I see it has been edited to the big ol' black memory hole.. that was fast

-- Posted by Third Child on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 4:47 PM

*The diagnosis is made clear by analyzing the data from the Disbelief Scale administered to those suspected of being affected.

I'm analysing you too, Slater.

Are you aware of who called whom, a liar, per chance? Did the hat magician fool you too?

See my previous post if it hasn't been edited out..

-- Posted by Third Child on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 4:43 PM

I've been studying on this rash of anger being directed at Obama, and I've concluded that all of those contributors are most likely suffering from IDS - Irrational Disbelief Syndrome.

The symptoms generally become manifested through verbalizations like, "YOU LIE!," or the use of words like, "brainwashing."

The diagnosis is made clear by analyzing the data from the Disbelief Scale administered to those suspected of being affected.

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 4:11 PM

Valley Dude,

If the bulk of the parents weren't so disinterested in their/other children's education, they'd get up off the couch and become involved in raising the money, 100% to be passed on to the schools. But NO! Forget Fundraising 101 and let someone else do it, like the pizza makers, or the coupon makers.

Obviously the educators themselves are as indifferent about the need as the parents.

MidMoCat, you're right about one thing.

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 3:47 PM

WTF,

We're aligned in our thoughts about a white president vs. a black/half white one.

All of this feigned outrage hurled at Obama is nothing more than disguised racism, in my view.

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 3:32 PM

And just so we don't leave Glenn Beck out, it's important to point out that all of this conservative s are motivated by the money generated by spouting hate and fear. Follow the money.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 3:28 PM

Oh, don't you just know that Charlie Sheen is such a credible personality, so insightful, and what an intellect! (heh heh)

Maybe he should join Wonder Jim in the line to appear on Letterman.

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 3:26 PM

And are we talking about the same Limbaugh who attributed a CDC report to President Obama? Limbaugh stated that President Obama wanted mandatory circumcision of all infants born in the U.S.

Can't get more confused than that! Limbaugh doesn't even know (or care) who says what anymore.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 3:25 PM

Ok, now I see that I'm being censored for raising an important safety issue, regarding our children being put out on the street hawking wares Charles Dickens style..

What are these "educaters" thinking?

Money.

Follow the money.

-- Posted by Third Child on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 3:19 PM

Sean Hannity seems to have a listening comprehension problem to match his reading comprehension problem. On his Fox News show about President Obama's health care speech last night (9/9/09), Hannity and his guest, Frank Luntz, misinterpreted what Obama said about the number of Americans without health insurance and mischaracterized his statements about health insurance executives. After attacking Obama's handling of the economic crisis with distortions and falsehoods, and following up with an accusation of socialism, Hannity complained that Obama's speech was too harshly partisan. Hannity repeated this attack throughout his show yet he repeatedly ignored the partisan heckling by Republicans.

see http://www.newshounds.us/2009/09/10/hann...

for more details.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 3:17 PM

Charlie Sheen is a "beloved super star"?!!!

Maybe in his wild-eyed dreams.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 3:13 PM

Somebody's watching him, Wonder Jim.

Charlie Sheen makes more money than just about anybody working in fantasy land.

Sheen is putting that all on the line by getting in the president's face. Obama can't win by ignoring Charlie Sheen.

The attacks by Hannity, Limbaugh and Beck, and all the the other little back biting hacks the devil can dredge up, only intensify the drama.

Mass marketing. Publicity. Keep attacking.

The ball is in the president's court. Is he just going to hide out for the remainder of his term as this "truth" thing ignites and inflames the masses? The masses are ready for truth. We can see the lies aren't working anymore. The house of cards is collapsing. Personal attacks are all that's left for those that can't debate the facts.

TV Drama

How will the president remain worshiped, by the TV masses, if he can't even talk to beloved super star Charlie 'Harper' Sheen?

The fantasy president meets the fantasy song-diddy writer.. drama and intrigue.. the gauntlet is thrown, what will the protagonist do? Who is the protagonist?

Two and a half balls are in the President's Court

-- Posted by Third Child on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 3:11 PM

Hey! What ever happened to all of the lottery money that was to go to schools? Now they are having to sell more and more stuff.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 3:01 PM

Several years ago the FFA had a slave-auction--you bid on the members to work for you for a day!! I would like to see students give of themselves for the benefit of organizations that benefit our schools and, yes, in turn, the students. I think there should be a list of the work the students would do and you could bid and choose a task that you need done. It could be rake the lawn, wash windows, pick up walnuts out of the yard, some cleaning tasks in the home, or around the farm. AND as I am saying this--who wants the liability of having students around!! Too bad, but we have to protect ourselves and yet it would be great if students could do something like this. Would save buying STUFF YOU DON'T WANT and it is very difficult to turn a student selling something down, especially the little ones. It would save time and gas too as one trip would do it all!!

-- Posted by farmerwife on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 2:55 PM

Sheen will have more of a chance to reach President Obama than he ever did with Bush and he knows it.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 2:37 PM

and don't bring the stuff to work and sell if for your kids. Especially if you are in a position of power.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 2:35 PM

Can Charlie Sheen, get the Predident's attention with this video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyKR2-A0K...

"Be on the right side of history" Charlie Sheen, American Patriot, to the President of the United States of America, Barack Hussein Obama 9/11/09

-- Posted by Third Child on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 2:24 PM

I can't tell you how many times that I have asked a kid well how much do you get on each pizza, magazine or whatever. They don't know and when I ask the parent, they don't know. I say that I will gladly donate $x.xx about instead of getting a very lousey pizza for $10.00. Once I gavea kid a donation for $5.00 instead of buying $10.00 of crap. The kid came back and gave me the check back and said that he would not get credit for the donation only if he sold a pizza. I took and kept the check.

Another child of a friend was given the task to sell 40 of those darn pizza's. That was an impossible task (he sold 37/38). He did not get to go on a field trip. His mother and dad worked the concession stand all basketball season. Mom said she was going to keep him home on the day of the field trip because he was going to be punished by having to sit in the detention room for the entire day. So he was given a unexcused absence.

Where is the logic in all of this. Are we to subsidize the pizza company at the loss of the children. This is so much Bull compost! As a taxpayer I don't mind giving to the schools but there should be no excuse for not giving a child credit if he collects donations instead of selling second rate pizza or cookie dough, sausage, fruit, magazines, gift wrap,or any other "products" people don't want!

-- Posted by movaldude on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 2:15 PM

I'm with the other poster about the school fundraisers. I would much rather just give the school 50 dollars than have to buy 100 dollars worth of something I don't need in order for the school to get 50 dollars. Most of the merchandise is cheap-breaks the first time you try to use it. I don't like that these companies are using our children to sell their products. If you spend 100 dollars on merchandise, the school gets 50, you get about 10 dollars worth of something cheap and the company still gets a 40 dollar profit without paying employees to sell the product.

I'm not bashing the PTO, they are important and so are their fundraisers, I'd just like to see a way to raise money without selling something for these companies that use our communities children to earn their profits.

-- Posted by Hombre on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 1:59 PM

Eric, one of the good things I see in your paper happens occasionally in the OBITUARY section. It makes me smile to go to that section and see that there were no obituaries submitted.

Wouldn't it be great if it'd be like more often?

-- Posted by Nonnymus on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 1:31 PM

WonderJim I do not doubt that at all.

A while back I was working a second job that sold alcohol and I have seen the same person try to buy with diffrent ID's from one week to the next.

-- Posted by Gal66 on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 1:30 PM

So Jo by your last post you don't think we should have been in any war other than the war with Japan and the Spanish American War correct?

-- Posted by Gal66 on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 1:26 PM

We have a problem with illegal aliens in this country I don't think anyone would argue otherwise.

They are getting jobs with illegally obtained social security cards and ID's I don't think anyone would argue otherwise.

Our government has not done a very good job in stopping this so.

Here is a question do you all really think illegal aliens will not be using those same means to get government subsidized health care?

-- Posted by Gal66 on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 1:18 PM

I agree we should get out Troops out of all the Countries in the World, and get this Country in order! Then let the **** fools follow us! I don't think they want too follow us, or Mess with us in any way! I look at this like i would here in this Country live and let live, until someone gets in your face! You keep acting Tough and someone going to take you on! So we should mind our own business! We don't have to be afraid of any Country!

-- Posted by Jo on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 12:53 PM

Missy,

Yes, it is the law that emergency rooms must treat sick people, whether they have insurance or can even pay for the health care.

What President Obama said in his speech was this:

"There are also those who claim that our reform efforts would insure illegal immigrants. This, too, is false. The reforms -- the reforms I'm proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally."

His statement is that the reforms wouldn't apply to illegal aliens -- not that the illegals can't get health care.

However, I'm not sure how that will be reconciled with the law about emergency room care.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 12:44 PM

Here is the link for the first part of the ACORN "counseling" session...

http://biggovernment.breitbart.com/

Just in case anybody is interested.

M

-- Posted by missy08 on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 12:14 PM

wtf,

don't know where that came from... did you not see the video regarding the ACORN worker counseling the young couple?

regarding the health care bill and not covering illegal aliens -- isn't it a law that emergency rooms must treat all emergency patients?

M

-- Posted by missy08 on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 12:09 PM

Midmocat,

are you calling our President a pimp?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 10:58 AM

midmocat:

There IS a democrat talking about tort reform -- our President. What President Obama said in his speech was this:

"many in this chamber -- particularly on the Republican side of the aisle -- have long insisted that reforming our medical malpractice laws can help bring down the cost of health care. Now, I don't believe malpractice reform is a silver bullet, but I've talked to enough doctors to know that defensive medicine may be contributing to unnecessary costs. So I'm proposing that we move forward on a range of ideas about how to put patient safety first and let doctors focus on practicing medicine. I know that the Bush administration considered authorizing demonstration projects in individual states to test these ideas. I think it's a good idea, and I'm directing my Secretary of Health and Human Services to move forward on this initiative today. "

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 10:38 AM

Is the editor editing again? My posts seem to be disappearing in the MDN public areas.

Would the editor care to disclose any personal or buisness connections they may have with anonymous poster known to petitioner, only as "Hat full o'sky"?

I'm just asking. For the record.

Thank you,

Signed: You Know Who I Am

09/11/09

-- Posted by Third Child on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 10:07 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Comments are deleted based on the content, not the name of the commenter.

I will welcome the time when those who spread the misinformation take their own advice and "look past the the smoke and mirrors, the propaganda, lies, the phoney flag waving and fear."

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 9:27 AM

**We all must become populists whether left, right, or center. If we all want in our hearts, what is right for all American citizens, we must earn it ourselves. Our elected officials will not do it for us.**

Absolutely, Oklahoma Reader! I couldn't agree with you more. When Americans stop seeing things as left or right and look past the the smoke and mirrors, the propaganda, lies, the phoney flag waving and fear, then, and only then will this country start to heal.

People that make a career out of 'governing' us, at every level, are acting in an obvious conflict of interest against OUR best interests. The more government, the worse it's going to be for freedom, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Our 'leaders' can't help themselves when it comes to power to control the lives of others. They will go as far as they can, as long as we let them get away with it.

As long as we line up like we are trained seals

in the government indoctrination centers where we

pay to 'educate' our children, nothing is going to change.

God bless the senior citizens that are raising hell in the town halls! Congress has gone back to the district of criminals after learning things they have never been exposed to before. God bless Joe Wilson, blurting out the truth to the speech writer's lies! The mad grannies and grandpas at the town halls have done what the founders of this great nation intended them to do and that is a good start..

Our beautiful world is ravaged by greed and war. We are being poisoned, robbed and murdered by string pullers of puppets. People have to look beyond puppets for answers. We are the answer. We are the ones we are waiting for.

-- Posted by Third Child on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 9:03 AM

Nanadot - there is a connection between the Taliban and al-Queda. http://www.infoplease.com/spot/taliban.h...

News: you said "As to fighting the Iraqis and the Taliban armies in America" and "No I don't think the Taliban are in the USA. Also, the Taliban have never attacked us nor have they ever stolen any of our aircraft as you erroneously claim." - not directly but they are connected and are here. You are quick to blame the Republicans for all the problems but haven't addressed the fact that nothing has been fixed nor are there any plans in place to fix it. You never did answer any of my questions - only argued points of your choosing and told me I'm wrong.

Tell you what - let's agree to disagree and let it go.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 8:37 AM

Hatful,

I've tried to explain that the TC before. Alex Jones is like Rush etc. He's making a buck and the more senstational the story the better. Just like Rush,Beck, O'Reilly, Hannity etc. These people will absolutelty tell bald face lies and thier followers will eat it up like the corporate pablum that it is and make no effort seek out any other source of info. It's really,really sad.

Case in point, in the Obama speech the other night, Obama purposefully said that insurance executives are NOT bad people.I watched the entire speech and that is exactly what he said. Hannity, naturally leads of with "Obama says insurance executives are "BAD PEOPLE".

This is a total distortion bought and paid for by corporate America.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 8:16 AM

Eric and Cheetah: It's true, at least in theory, that renters pay property taxes indirectly through their rent. On the other hand, I'd bet some serious money that if property taxes were magically reduced to zero, the rent would not correspondingly go down. I've been a renter and an owner, so I'm taking no "side" here, but when has anything EVER been reduced in price (except for gasoline)?

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 7:17 AM

I went to the link that third child provided. I begin to understand the reason why third child is spreading misinformation -- because the site I saw was full of lies and conspiracy theory touted by one Alex Jones.

This is a man who armed with a high school education (from Texas, no less) who claims to understand the intricate field of world politics.

My gosh, he did a mock sacrifice of a child while standing in front of a huge owl statue in one of his videos!

Even more reprehensible is that his website is presented in a format that reads like a news article.

Here's a tip, third child -- He's making it all up off his cuff. He is lying to you! And you are helping spread his lies.

Just say no.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 7:16 AM

This is a question -- I'm not a rental property owner, so I don't know for sure -- but don't renters pay property tax indirectly through their rent? I mean, landlords use rent to pay other expenses (plus profit), so wouldn't renters be contributing to property taxes just as they contribute to mortgage payments, maintenance, etc.?

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 6:05 AM

Regressing a bit; I feel the same way on the school bond issue. There needs to be a way that not just the home owners get taxed but the renters as well.

There has to be a loop hole that can be written in to do just that. It is ridiculous that the property owners are the ones who bare the brunt of this. Somewhere I am sure there are statistics showing how many rental houses there are in Marshall, tap into that and stop draining the property owners.

-- Posted by litlmissme on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 5:05 AM

OR and Nanodot, Thanks for your voices of sanity. Looking forward to reading your latest link OR. After reading TC's description of his first day in school, I wonder if that is where it all began? Bad teacher. I read Marcia Gorrell's blog on corn. (My grandson, the scientist, keeps telling me there is no difference between fructose and sugar) But why does the Coca Cola produced in Mexico with real sugar taste better than the U.S. version? No cocaine jokes, please. I loved Marcia's quote from her Mother-in-law, "Say what you have to say and then be quiet. No need to argue."

Definitely should be needlepointed on a number of pillows!

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 12:29 AM

I have just read the best explanation that I have seen as to what is going on in the Whitehouse, and Congress concerning health care reform. I am not going to say more about the article itself. I am saying that if you take the time to read the commentary, you absolutely will be better informed.

I am also saying to Third Child you are going to to love it. You too NanaDot, Slater, NewsAcross. You too Aikman8, Ray, UpseDaisy, Jo, WTF, and many others of varied political allegiances. We all must become populists whether left, right, or center. If we all want in our hearts, what is right for all American citizens, we must earn it ourselves. Our elected officials will not do it for us.

Ray I agree with you that it would be better that there be no change at all, than if we get what is projected by this commentator to come from the executive and legislative branches of our government.

I have never before urged this strongly, that participants on this blog read a link. I think that you all will profit from this read. Here is the best part. Everyone of you will find grist for your mill in this article.

Up with Broad Populism. Nobody is gonna do it but us folks, there are not enough saviors in Washington.

Enjoy. http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/sto...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 12:17 AM

One to sleep on

"Obama Youth: Homeland Security Wants To Recruit Girl Scouts"

*follows similar programs being run by the DHS that train Boy Scouts how to conduct armed raids on discontented American citizens, described as "terrorists" and "drug dealers" by Homeland Security.

As we reported back in May when the program was announced, one of the "terrorists" that the Boy Scouts were trained to kill in one scenario was actually a disgruntled U.S. war veteran.

In the mock training scenario, the Boy Scouts were ordered to, "Put him on his face and put a knee in his back," by a Border Patrol agent, who added "I guarantee that he'll shut up."

Given recent concerns over the DHS definition of "right wing extremists" and the agency's penchant to affiliate veterans, gun owners, Ron Paul supporters and even those who question the mainstream media with terrorists, one wonders exactly who the Boy Scouts and now the Girl Scouts are being trained to target..

http://www.infowars.com/obama-youth-home...

good night all..

-- Posted by Third Child on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 11:48 PM

Obaahhmmaaah... Obaahhmmaaah!

-- Posted by Third Child on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 11:35 PM

Good memory, Slater. It was SC where Karl Rove sharpened his knives on McCain. That was another "fine kettle of fish". I was considerably disturbed, last year, when SC Sen. Lindsey Graham was objecting to offering a GI Bill of education benefits to our armed forces. He didn't want to make it so good, "they would be tempted to get out of the service". I realize they are a hired service since the "draft" has ended, but when they've had enough or want to be around for their children, I feel the least the country can do is pay for their education and medical needs.

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 11:35 PM

Okay now, everybody! Remember, on the count of three...ONE! TWO! THREE!!

MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 11:17 PM

*MidMoCat has that "herd" mentality that TC talked about*

No more than change believers.

I can't imagine why any senior citizen would want Obamacare any more than they wanted their retirements to be stolen by the banker bailouts.. That's Bush's bailout AND Obama's bailout..

What's the difference what herd you are in if you are a cow? It just doesn't matter.

-- Posted by Third Child on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 11:02 PM

Air Force Wife,

As I said, we should bring all of our troops home from every foreign place. At that point our Army becomes a peace time Army and thus our military requirements become significantly reduced. Interestingly enough, if the Republicans hadn't started these two wars...we wouldn't be in this predicament of having to choose more guns and less health care access.

As to where I reside... that is completely irrelevant. I love my Country, the United States, as much as you do...neither my Citizenship or my patriotism are up for debate.

Finally, Air Force wife, you ask,

"Do you really think there aren't Taliban in the states now? Probably planning their next "adventure". Do you think they don't have access to air power? Good grief - they took OUR planes.

No I don't think the Taliban are in the USA.

Also, the Taliban have never attacked us nor have they ever stolen any of our aircraft as you erroneously claim.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 10:52 PM

MidMoCat has that "herd" mentality that TC talked about.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 10:29 PM

Jo,

I don't care which party is in the majority as long as the members don't abuse the public trust and do what's right for the country and for the people. If certain ones don't, boot them out and put new faces in there.

Midmocat wants the republicans back in control for a different reason. He wants to gloat about it and most likely couldn't care if his party ever did anything right, just as long as they're the majority.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 10:27 PM

Midmocrat, if your right about the Republicans taking back the Majority in 2010. That will absolutly, nail it down for me! That the American People are Massicus, they love that pain, and know one can change their mind?

-- Posted by Jo on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 9:55 PM

news - "A good place to begin would be ending all the foreign wars the Republicans started {and failed to bring to an end) and bringing all our troops home from all foreign stations."

Well duh....you stated the obvious but failed to answer any of the other questions regarding unemployment figures. As for the Republicans starting these wars - I don't see the Dems finishing them or pulling out. In fact, troops in Afghanistan have increased significantly in the past 3 months.

"As to where to begin cutting military spending...we should begin shutting down unnecessary bases and begin down sizing. However, budget cuts are the job of our elected officials and only they can put together a plan for this purpose."

Great idea - reduce our military so we can be a sitting duck who can't defend ourselves. I suppose that doesn't bother you since you don't live here.

"As to fighting the Iraqis and the Taliban armies in America...well frankly...that is pretty unlikely. The last I heard, neither country has a Navy capable of making it to America."

Do you really think there aren't Taliban in the states now? Probably planning their next "adventure". Do you think they don't have access to air power? Good grief - they took OUR planes. They don't need their own.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 9:33 PM

Thanks Eric!

-- Posted by Dawson16 on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 9:16 PM

Upsedaisy,

Isn't it SC where Karl Rove opened his dirty tricks bag and worked on John McCain in 2000?

Isn't the Bob Ford College located in SC, the place whose head clunker ranted about the immorality of anyone not identifying with his views?

I think that state is full of nut cases. I'm glad it's not close to Texas. We have enough of our own nut cases already without any influence from that bunch over there.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 8:58 PM

The poll needs a 5th choice or I can't vote. Something like -----

I was unsure before and still haven't made up my mind.

-- Posted by Dawson16 on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 8:24 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Consider it done.

Dawson,

Yes, I did cut out the middle words of the quote on purpose. I was using Obama's words as an example to let third child know that his/her efforts to mislead and spread misinformation are not going to be put up with anymore.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 7:55 PM

I like this part of the plan. Let's hope it's effective and does happen.

"Reducing the waste and inefficiency in Medicare and Medicaid will pay for most of this plan."

-- Posted by Dawson16 on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 7:53 PM

Question for anyone who knows. This portion of the speech (below) talks about employers being required to offer health care to their workers or help cover the cost. But if it presents a hardship to the business, then they're exempt. So then what happens? How does that worker get his coverage?

"That's why under my plan, individuals will be required to carry basic health insurance - just as most states require you to carry auto insurance. Likewise, businesses will be required to either offer their workers health care, or chip in to help cover the cost of their workers. There will be a hardship waiver for those individuals who still cannot afford coverage, and 95% of all small businesses, because of their size and narrow profit margin, would be exempt from these requirements. But we cannot have large businesses and individuals who can afford coverage game the system by avoiding responsibility to themselves or their employees. Improving our health care system only works if everybody does their part."

-- Posted by Dawson16 on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 7:51 PM

hat full of sky, you don't have the Obama quote right. Here it is and in context with the part of the speech it came from.

"But know this: I will not waste time with those who have made the calculation that it's better politics to kill this plan than improve it. I will not stand by while the special interests use the same old tactics to keep things exactly the way they are. If you misrepresent what's in the plan, we will call you out."

The way you quoted it made it sound like you're calling Third Child out for an old western duel. And I think he took you up on it!

-- Posted by Dawson16 on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 7:44 PM

why dont the school district try for a sales tax to cover the cost of a new school instead of a bond issue? That way everyone will help pay for the school, instead of only the home owners.

-- Posted by mofireman on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 7:17 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
School districts are not allowed to use sales taxes to raise money for capital improvements.

"This Was the Obama We've Been Waiting for"

http://www.alternet.org/politics/142545/...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 6:57 PM

Here we go again fund raiser time for the PTO! Every kid in the discrict will be out there pedaling thier wares.

Many years ago I thought I would be smart and only donate money and buy nothing, what the heck the PTO would get 100% of my money. I was appauled when it came time to wrap up the fund raiser and my child was left out of the festivities because they had not sold anything but the PTO still had $100.00 of my hard earned cash!

I know it is a worthy cause but I hate buying something I really don't want or need.

JMHO

-- Posted by litlmissme on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 5:56 PM

More lies from third child.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 5:43 PM

"Drop in jobless claims helps buoy stocks"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3683270/ns/b...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 5:21 PM

Slater,

It's Governor, Mark Sanford. Wilson joins a long list of fine SC Republican politicians. It was in July 2007 that Thomas Ravenel, South Carolina state Treasurer, entered a "not guilty" plea to state and federal charges of cocaine distribution. His "daddy" appeared in court for him. Thomas was hustled off to a rehab center in Arizona the preceding June. I understand Tom Coburn has been in touch w/CA assemblyman Phil Duvall urging him to seek a national office. Another good fit for the "Christian" safe house, perhaps?

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 5:07 PM

Slater

Do you mean Governor "Soul Mate?"...lol...

By the way, I do admire his wife who wasn't buying his lame excuses. She left him and I believe his irresponsibility is about to cost him everything.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 4:52 PM

*Congressman who shouted 'you lie' got $240,000 from health industry*

And that doesn't change the fact that illegal aliens will continue to get free health care at the expense of the American taxpayer.

Obama stuck his foot in this one. Wilson was correct.

And there ARE death panels. They are already in place. We've been putting old people down for years..

Obama is just speaking legaleese. Factcheck is an Annenberg Foundation 'inside' job with Obama.

Death panels do exist. This is a standard feature of all socialized medicine. It's called rationing.. has something to do with money.. Look it up.. i ain't lyin'..

-- Posted by Third Child on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 4:51 PM

The lunatic fringe from South Carolina at work again, eh News?

What's the name of the bogus governor of that state?

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 4:21 PM

CNN: Obama got double-digit post speech bump:

"According to a CNN poll, one in seven who watched the speech changed their minds on the president's proposed health insurance reforms. At the beginning of the speech, 53 percent supported health reform; by its end, that figure had increased to 67 percent."

With CNN video...

http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/09/10/c...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 4:11 PM

Congressman who shouted 'you lie'

got $240,000 from health industry:

http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/09/10/o...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 3:57 PM

Air Force Wife,

A good place to begin would be ending all the foreign wars the Republicans started {and failed to bring to an end) and bringing all our troops home from all foreign stations.

As to where to begin cutting military spending...we should begin shutting down unnecessary bases and begin down sizing. However, budget cuts are the job of our elected officials and only they can put together a plan for this purpose.

As to fighting the Iraqis and the Taliban armies in America...well frankly...that is pretty unlikely. The last I heard, neither country has a Navy capable of making it to America.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 3:39 PM

Peaceful Revolution

"Charlie Sheen's Video Message to President Obama"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyKR2-A0K...

Charlie Sheen addresses the President about 9/11 in a special video message, shortly after releasing his "20 Minutes with the President," specifically addressing 20 key points that need to be answered by a truly independent investigation.

Sheen's message is a call to action, not only for President Obama to address the pertinent issues, but for activists everywhere to pressure their representatives and leaders, wherever they may be, to 'be on the right side of history' and take back the country through peaceful revolution and true grassroots dissent.

-- Posted by Third Child on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 2:14 PM

WTF - I agree but the military is short handed so has to depend on contractors to fill those gaps. Some claim it costs less because of benefits, retirement funds, etc. Who knows. Another point to this is that these contractors have jobs and are putting money back into our economy. If they all come home at once would they find jobs here? We may have to look at history and see how Hoover, Truman, and Eisenhower solved much of the employment problems after wars.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 2:03 PM

Not so fast there, Hatfull.

You've made allegations that I don't agree with. I don't know who you are or why you are spreading falsehoods and misinformation about me but I don't like it.

I've asked you to produce the evidence of your allegations and you couldn't! Why not? It's all in the record.. buddy. Forever.. public record..

So please do.. please stop 'misrepresentin' the facts there ol' buddy and I'll remain civil with you.

Thank you for your cooperation.

*third child, Never mind. You have confirmed that my post was most definitely a wasted effort. Keep on buzzin and we'll keep ignoring you.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 1:25 PM

-- Posted by Third Child on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 2:01 PM

Lucky charm counterfeit bill! funny

Obama says Repubs are lying about Obamacare.

Joe Wilson responds

21 seconds

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sc8rL2Whr...

-- Posted by Third Child on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 1:40 PM

third child,

Never mind. You have confirmed that my post was most definitely a wasted effort.

Keep on buzzin and we'll keep ignoring you.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 1:25 PM

May I suggest we start over and simply extend medicare coverage to all Americans and pay for it with cuts in military spending.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Sep 9, 2009, at 2:48 AM

I have thought about this for several days before responding. I don't want an altercation but can't let it go.

News: where do you suggest we start cutting military spending - the pay? Most military personnel earn poverty level wages. Numbers? there's a thought, not only would that increase the unemployment rate in this country but would leave us a sitting duck for the next wacko who decides to attack.

I don't agree with using our money to "fix" third world countries problems but please be more explicit when making comments such as this one. We are not the only country fighting the wars now. NATO is carrying much of the load. It is an expensive war but as one soldier recently said "I'd rather fight them over there than over here".

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 1:16 PM

*Your postings have become like an irritating gnat that buzzes around your ear but you ignore it.*

Well that's certainly civil.. Hatfull

*stop spreading falsehoods and promoting ignorance*

I'm asking you to do the same.

*There's another thing that President Obama said, "If you misrepresent, we will call you out." I suggest you consider those words*

Boy I DO! I 'm giving it a big ol' hat full of consideration, Hatfull.

So I'm calling you out mister.. Stop the misrepresentin buddy... put up or shut up.. show your evidence if you think I have been uncivil to you.

The truth will set you free!

-- Posted by Third Child on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 1:05 PM

Although I have doubts about the sensibility of addressing your comments, third child, I will keep in mind something President Obama said last night: "I still believe that acrimony can be replaced with civility."

So I'm going to be civil when I tell you, third child, that your comments are not achieving what may be your intention. Your postings have become like an irritating gnat that buzzes around your ear but you ignore it. Your diatribes and persistent long rants have alienated even people who might have listened to you.

Finally, I will ask you for returned civility with the request that you stop spreading falsehoods and promoting ignorance. There's another thing that President Obama said, "If you misrepresent, we will call you out." I suggest you consider those words.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 11:57 AM

How about a update on the Eastwood St. Bridge project? I hear there may be a little bit of a problem with the awarded bid!

-- Posted by yomomma on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 8:11 AM
Response by Sydney Stonner/Staff writer:
According to Mayor Connie Latimer, Lehman Construction had a "minor discrepancy" with one subcontractor for the bridge project and has since found a replacement. She said the main reason for the delay of the Eastwood bridge project is the engineers, but a preconstruction meeting is scheduled for Tuesday, Sept. 15, at 10 a.m. in the City Office Building.

WTF...

All I can say is brilliant commentary and good on ya mate!

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 1:38 AM

Well said WTF.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 12:19 AM

WTF, in regards to your response to Yank: Amen!

-- Posted by STLgirlMarshallMom on Wed, Sep 9, 2009, at 11:49 PM

Third Child,

I don't know if your assertion of Obama and the "Monkey God" is true but even if it is who cares? Seriously, who gives a rusty bucket or a rolling donut about what he carries in his pocket?

Just like I don't care what you carry in your pocket. The fact is most of of us are guilty of the same thing. We carrying something in our pockets every day that far too many of us worship. Its' called the almighty "dollar".

Monkey Idol? Who cares?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Sep 9, 2009, at 10:01 PM

The thing is Yank Obama is right. We are no longer a Christian nation. Do you know why he says that? It's because he's inclusive... not exclusive. President Obama realizes that this nation is not only made up of all manner of races and creeds but also all manner of religions as well as those who practice no religion at all. Just because the majority of Amercians claim to be christians doesn't nescessarily make this a christian nation no matter how bad the christians want to claim it all for themselves. These people who seem to be christian in name only because I see no edvidence of the vast majority acting like christians. Would Jesus allow his fellow man, one of god's children, to suffer and possibly die just because he can't afford it? Spare me your false outrage and if you are what you claim then act like it. Act like christian and show some love and compassion for your fellow man instead of the contempt and outrage that seems to be the calling card of the religious right.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Sep 9, 2009, at 9:54 PM

The Most Nightmarish Health Care Reform Bill Ever

Obama sold out to the insurance companies

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-cesca/...

There is no public option.

Instead, you would have to buy a private insurance policy or be penalized by the federal government like so:

Penalties for failing to get insurance would start at $750 a year for individuals and $1,500 for families. Households making more than three times the federal poverty level -- about $66,000 for a family of four -- would face the maximum fines. For families, it would be $3,800, and for individuals, $950.

-- Posted by Third Child on Wed, Sep 9, 2009, at 8:53 PM

Sorry Yank. That was waaay too long to post in Speak Out (it was more than 1,000 words). It's available on the web in numerous places, including:

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=1002...

There's also an entry at Snopes.com

http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/p...

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Wed, Sep 9, 2009, at 8:35 PM

Barack Obama refuses to salute US flag

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU9iCANi0...

BBC:

"India monkey god idol for Obama"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/74...

A group of Indians are planning to present a statue of the revered Indian monkey God, Hanuman, to Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama.

The group decided to order the idol after they read a magazine report saying that Mr Obama carried a good luck 'monkey king' charm.

They say that a Barack Obama victory would be good for India.

Hindus revere monkeys which they believe are descendents of the monkey God Hanuman.

The two-foot tall, 15kg gold-polished, brass idol has been made as a present for Mr Obama because "he will be good for India if he becomes the next president," according to Brij Mohan Bhama, leader of the group.

Mr Bhama belongs to the ruling Congress party and also runs a textile mill in the western city of Mumbai.

'Monkey charm'

"We have heard that he carries a small monkey charm in his pocket. So he is a devotee of Hanuman. That's why we want to present him with this idol," he said.

-- Posted by Third Child on Wed, Sep 9, 2009, at 8:33 PM

Yank,

President Obama has just ended his speech on health care. His last words: "God Bless the United States of America".

I hope you were listening with an open mind.

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Wed, Sep 9, 2009, at 8:06 PM

Hey earl. I don't think the government just intervened. I think this all started with neighbors complaining about the nuisance. I know Mr. and Mrs. Johns are doing what they believe is right and good. But the cats are alot like the raccoons. The cats aren't trying to be a nuisance, they don't know property lines. Any plot of grass (flower bed, or porch rug) is a toilet to them.

-- Posted by missy08 on Wed, Sep 9, 2009, at 7:26 PM

missy, if you have seen me before i am all against nusiance. i was the guy that said we should shoot the coons that mess up the power lines. and i stand be hind that. i am not defending the cats they feed. i am defending the people that feed them. i understand that animals can cause a problem, but what rubs me raw is that the law, or the government, thaught it was their place to fine these people. thats crazy. if you dont want all these cats running around then put a bounty on them just like there used to be on coons. i know after the power outage im taking care of any coon i see.

earl peters

-- Posted by earlpeters on Wed, Sep 9, 2009, at 6:19 PM

*I could not care less what spiritual beliefs any President holds as long as his or her religion does not interfere with the duties of the Presidency*

How would we know?

Skull and Bones is 'so secret' the President "CAN'T tell you about it". John Kerry said so. So did Bush.

The oath to Skull and Bones is higher that the oath to Office of The President of the United States!

Wake up America

We're running out of time

-- Posted by Third Child on Wed, Sep 9, 2009, at 6:10 PM

I have to point out that he carries a monkey god talisman in his pocket of lucky charms.

He could be referring to that when he says God Bless. Monkey god..

Did he really flub his oath on George Washingtons' Bible?

Nothing new. Bush and Kerry were both exclusive members of secret society Skull and Bones. So was Bush 1. How does that happen?

How come, when there are so few of these secret society people, (only fifteen a year are invited) so many of them happen to run for president? At the SAME time? How does that even happen?

Your choice:

Skull and Bones A

Or Skull and Bones B

Take your pick. This is democracy..

It's what's for supper..

Wake up America before it's too late

-- Posted by Third Child on Wed, Sep 9, 2009, at 5:58 PM

Hey earl. It is great that Mr. and Mrs. Johns are providing for God's critters. However, I think the "issue" behind the whole mess wasn't addressed in the article. It is my understanding that the original complaint was the damage that the cats were doing to neighboring yards and the messes they were leaving behind. Not a major problem -- unless you happen to be a neighbor.....

M

-- Posted by missy08 on Wed, Sep 9, 2009, at 5:55 PM

yank,

While its true that our President is a practicing Christian, religious belief is private, personal matter. In addition, there is no religious test for the office of the President. Personally, I could not care less what spiritual beliefs any President holds as long as his or her religion does not interfere with the duties of the Presidency.

So yank, exactly what were you tying to accomplish with your off-the-wall comment? Whats your point other than the obvious partisan, meaningless political attack on our President who you obviously opposed from the start?

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Sep 9, 2009, at 5:54 PM

Yank,

Maybe you need to pay more attention. But then again let's KILL 'EM ALL! LET GOD SORT 'EM OUT! , Right?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Sep 9, 2009, at 5:41 PM

yank: If you have never heard the president say "God bless America," it's because you were not listening. He says it at least as much as any president ever has and I have heard presidents speak for a long, long time. I heard the speech yesterday and he said it then. You can tune in right here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZZ6GrzWk...

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Sep 9, 2009, at 5:16 PM

*I'm guessing we can all think of at least one teacher who made a difference in our lives*

Francis Copeland, resorted to corporal punishment on myself on my very first day of school. I forget what I was refusing to do. I bowed my neck on something. I never thought that grandmotherly looking stranger would ever SNATCH me out of the chair and drag by the shirt and push and slide/scoot me across the slick tiles, out the DOOR, down the HALL, and INTO the boy's BATHROOM!

SWATTING ME ON THE WAY!

My mind has blocked out much of the outrageous ordeal... I was humiliated. It was uncalled for. It made me mad.

I was determined right then and there that as soon as I got out of there, that was it. All over.

I wasn't going back. Never again to set foot in THAT school again.

I remember arguing with my mom about it that evening. She couldn't change my mind at all. I refused to compromise and I thought I was winning the argument.

I lost that argument 'long about supper time. I learned a lot that day.

Francis Copeland, Bless her Soul

-- Posted by Third Child on Wed, Sep 9, 2009, at 5:16 PM

well first off thanks slater for updating me on the north family in slater, sad news but thanks anyway.

now bookmarks with president picture on it, (WHY) to the farmers daughter you have a very smart daughter.

now reagan and bush, was american. people say bush lied to us, i agree but he also could have been lied to.

but this i do know, our president has spent more time kissing *** of nations who openly oppose us. he has never in my knowledge ever said GOD BLESS AMERICA.

-- Posted by yank on Wed, Sep 9, 2009, at 4:38 PM

has marshall gone out of its mind. here are two folks feeding cats and they have to pay the government money. who is the government going to feed with their fine. i used to live in a place where my neighbor had about a hundred cats and i never remember anybody knocking on their door. its not like they were raising these cats to fight like that football palyer was. so whats the big deal. dont we have more important things to worry about than school teachers feeding cats. i can think of several people i would like to see in court and none of them have anything to do with stray animals. unless you consider some of the punks running around town.

i got a bird feeder right in front of my house and now im scarred johnny law is going come and see me.

earl peters

-- Posted by earlpeters on Wed, Sep 9, 2009, at 4:34 PM

"I certainly hope the residents of Marshall will sleep better at night knowing I am not feeding more than three cats." Laura Johns Sept. 8, 2009

http://www.marshallnews.com/story/156855...

-- Posted by Third Child on Wed, Sep 9, 2009, at 4:32 PM

My question was truly whether or not you were educated by public schools, not how far you went through the educational process. I know people with Phd's who don't have much common sense, and others who are brilliant. I'm guessing we can all think of at least one teacher who made a difference in our lives. For me, it was Grace Senter and Mrs. Hobart Hill, both were so compassionate to ALL children. They were way ahead of their time in terms of drawing children out and making the most of their education.

-- Posted by oneofmany on Wed, Sep 9, 2009, at 4:25 PM

has marshall gone out of its **** mind. here are two folks feeding cats and they have to pay the government money. who is the government going to feed with their fine. i used to live in a place where my neighbor had about a hundred cats and i never remember anybody knocking on their door. its not like they were raising these cats to fight like that football palyer was. so whats the big deal. dont we have more important things to worry about than school teachers feeding cats. i can think of several people i would like to see in court and none of them have anything to do with stray animals. unless you consider some of the punks running around town.

i got a bird feeder right in front of my house and now im scarred johnny law is going come and see me.

earl peters

-- Posted by earlpeters on Wed, Sep 9, 2009, at 3:48 PM

karma is real: You're right - everyone is entitled to their opinion, and had I not already known that the "interview" never happened at all, I wouldn't have been so flippant. Since it did not, however, I stand by the remark.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Sep 9, 2009, at 3:43 PM

While driving down Morrow today, I made an observation. The dog on Morrow and English - that was the animal that was the topic of such bad treatment right? - will now behind a fancy new privacy fence. Poor thing. Hopefully his life will be better now...and not just out of sight out of mind.

-- Posted by Scarpetta on Wed, Sep 9, 2009, at 3:15 PM

The true test is in avoiding those pesky injun arrows.

The riders may want to sling the mailbags over their backs, much like Robert Preston did with the railroad payroll pouch to prevent the bullets from penetrating his flesh as he was being chased by Joel McCrea in Union Pacific.

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Sep 9, 2009, at 2:58 PM

A day in numerology: 09/09/09

WAAHHHHHHH!!!! After 12/12/12 all the fun will have ended for this century. :(

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Sep 9, 2009, at 2:40 PM

missy08, No, I didn't read down far enough to see that the interview hadn't occurred...yet. All the same, it really should! The points that Mr.Sheen listed are very factual and true. I also believe that the president would respond just as he did in this "mock" meeting...with nothing. No explanation, no answers, no clue. Although, I HOPE I'm wrong. As for Mrs.Fairchilds comment, I kinda took offense. Everyone is entitled to their opinion! And about the Britney Spears remark, maybe you shouldn't be so quick to judge others. Instead take a step back and look at yourself. You know what they say, Karma is a b****.

-- Posted by karma is real on Wed, Sep 9, 2009, at 1:36 PM

I barely escaped high school.

-- Posted by Third Child on Wed, Sep 9, 2009, at 1:21 PM

If you'll look back, my question was in reference to his referring to the public school system as the public fool system. I was educated by the public schools and am proud of it. Thirdchild seems very well versed on a variety of subjects. I'm just wondering if he also was educated by the public school system. Don't read more into it than that,mosthonest1!

-- Posted by oneofmany on Wed, Sep 9, 2009, at 11:01 AM

NanaDot, thanks for the book recomendations but as I struggle enough just to digest the daily news of the absurd, it's unlikely I'll find time to wade into such esoteric tomes anytime soon.

If I understood more about what it is I'm supposed to be recieving in the way of enlightenment, I might be persuaded. I probably couldn't understand it anyway. If there is a simple bottom line, I'm all ears.

The awakening? I don't know.. I've been wrong before about that.. on the mass scale. I thought people would wake up a long time ago to the lies of 9/11 and all that it has wrought in the loss of life and liberty. Obama isn't going to fix anything and the longer people are still mesmerized to that illusion the further the doors close on our future.. (our written destiny, in the words of the false Messiah)

As with Karma's awakening, I read that a tipping point has been reached. A point of no return down the rabbit hole. The red pill has been chosen and the art of illusion has lost its power to control.

Mass hypnosis no longer works on the truley awakened. They can see through it.

I don't know what the percentages are now of the the awake versus the wishfull followers but I know it's growing. Once awake, you can't go back.

-- Posted by Third Child on Wed, Sep 9, 2009, at 9:34 AM

oneofmany, you keep asking Thirdchild where he/her got his/her education. What does it matter? This is for everyone's opinion and it doesn't matter where anyone got their education. Where did you get YOURS?

-- Posted by mosthonest1 on Wed, Sep 9, 2009, at 7:28 AM

Every day it seems the negotiated Democrat/Republican health care legislation in the Senate becomes more and more complex.

May I suggest we start over and simply extend medicare coverage to all Americans and pay for it with cuts in military spending.

Its simple, quick, and everyone will be covered...and remember...if we have money to kill with then surely we have money to heal with.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Sep 9, 2009, at 2:48 AM

Closing out with a bit of satirical humor, hopefully it will be the last word on an issue that was overblown like no other.

http://www.legitgov.org/shulman_gop_how_...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Sep 9, 2009, at 1:13 AM

Idk dawson16 maybe they will put them in jail or something like that if they can't afford insurance or the fine.Its more ways our elected employes are screwing us(their bosses)we need to fire their rears.It seams to me if obama cant get what he wants he'll punish the little people more its gettin old.I dont care who is in office they need to listen too more people not only the people who have more money than brains.If our elected would stop and think and put the money back in medicade and medicare along with ssi and only use it for that than we wouldn't have that big of deal.I voted for less gov. in tellin me what to do not more of what they think and want.Cant wait for next elections they wanted change lets give it to them.

-- Posted by arojr on Wed, Sep 9, 2009, at 1:09 AM

NanaDot..glad you enjoyed the link. :)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Sep 9, 2009, at 12:17 AM

"Three decades ago top execs seldom took home more than 30 times average worker pay. In 2008 top execs took home 319 times the average U. S. worker wage."http://www.toomuchonline.org/tmweekly.html

Now we are all o. k. with that right? They are a lot better than us right? They are a lot smarter than us, and deserve it, right? They work a lot harder than any of us, right? It is God's blessing given to them because they are better servants to God, right? We have as good a chance as they to make it big as they have, so we would not want to spoil our own chances, right?

Well it is easy to see that we need to just keep our heads bowed, our mouths shut, and hope that those folk, obviously our countries finest,don't decide that they want 500 times what we make, and take even more out of our pockets, right?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Sep 9, 2009, at 12:09 AM

Stat of the Week

"The 20 financial industry giants that have received the most bailout dollars from U.S. taxpayers have together laid off 160,000 workers since the beginning of last year. In 2008, notes the Institute for Policy Studies, the top 100 executives at these 20 firms together collected $795.5 million in compensation"

Source:"Too Much An Online Weekly on excess and inequality"

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Sep 8, 2009, at 11:40 PM

arojr, glad you brought this up. I've been wading through the proposed health care plan and it's very slow going. It is very long and tedious reading.

When Obama was campaigning, he said punishing families who can't afford health care to begin with doesn't make sense. At that time he proposed mandatory insurance only for children.

What has happened here? What happens if people can't pay the fine? If they can't afford the insurance, they surely won't be able to pay the fine either.

-- Posted by Dawson16 on Tue, Sep 8, 2009, at 9:25 PM

Fanboy,

Letterman occasionally invites comedians to appear on his program. Cut him in on your posts.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Sep 8, 2009, at 9:17 PM

arajr,

Don't forget the congressional committees are bipartisan in composition.

Once upon a time the state of Missouri tried to set term limits on federal legislators and the Supreme Court said states do not have the constitutiional right to do so.

Good luck with that idea. They hardly will be willing to vote themselves out of their gravy train.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Sep 8, 2009, at 9:14 PM

What a bunch of democrat b.s. wantin to fine the great people of this country that dont have or cant afford health insurance in a new proposed bill in congress.Its time to elected a whole new congress.We need to get a bill passed that would limit how many terms a person can hold office in congress.Limit them to six years only and make them pay half their insurance premiums that would save some of our tax dollors.

-- Posted by arojr on Tue, Sep 8, 2009, at 8:25 PM

news across: I recall one of the, uh, more amusing moments during the 1988 campaign, when the elder Bush was accused of not being a "real" Texan (which, of course, he was not). He lifted up the leg of his pants, revealing a very gaudy cowboy boot, decorated with the Texas state flag, as I recall, and said, "Oh, yeah, how about these?" I'm pretty sure cowboy boot possession and residence in the state for a relatively short period of time doesn't make you a Texan, but this little trick, authored by the late Lee Atwater, helped him win in 1988.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, Sep 8, 2009, at 6:33 PM

Spain to proceed with torture prosecution of Bush lawyers: Report:

http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/09/08/s...

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Sep 8, 2009, at 6:25 PM

Cheetah: Speaking of 12-Step Programs, check this out:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/08/opinio...

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, Sep 8, 2009, at 6:22 PM

Obama's revisionist history lesson

"The story of America isn't about people who quit when things got tough. It's about people who kept going, who tried harder, who loved their country too much to do anything less than their best. It's the story of students who sat where you sit 250 years ago, and went on to wage a revolution and found this nation."

Pretty funny if it wasn't so sad

It was inspiring though..

-- Posted by Third Child on Tue, Sep 8, 2009, at 5:47 PM

WonderJim,

you are correct about the Bush Presidents not being Texans by birth. Also,you are correct that these two fellows could show you a birth certificate...and just like President Obama's birth certificate...it would be the short form.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Sep 8, 2009, at 5:14 PM

Here's how hang gliding is done these days

They look like terrorist to me

Trippy music

10 min video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMSIpE7_E...

Russian Open 2009

-- Posted by Third Child on Tue, Sep 8, 2009, at 4:59 PM

Here is a good link that explains why the US Postal service is struggling financially. As I suspected, part of the reason is electronic communication, part of it is the funding of the benefit package they have for retirees.

http://www.usps.com/communications/newsr...

Here is another link that explains that the Postal Service is not truly just a government run agency, something that I'm sure most people don't know.

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/consumeraw...

I don't know but I would think one reason UPS and FedEx are doing better is that they don't deal with the volume of letters that would be strictly a USPS service, but rather with packages and overnight mail. Of course, the letters would be affected by e-mail and attachments whereas packages would not be affected by the internet.

-- Posted by oneofmany on Tue, Sep 8, 2009, at 3:51 PM

I notice, Thirdchild, you never answered my question. Where did you receive your education?

-- Posted by oneofmany on Tue, Sep 8, 2009, at 3:38 PM

That's why UPS and FED EX are both showing profit ans USPS is broke. Medicare is also about broke. Leave it to the govt!

-- Posted by Maynard G Krebbs on Tue, Sep 8, 2009, at 3:08 PM

Slater, Cheetah: Yeah, we need to put a stop to government interference with the mail. And while we're at it, let's make sure the government doesn't take control of Medicare! Wouldn't that be a disaster???

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, Sep 8, 2009, at 2:00 PM

There was a time back in the 1950s when the few that were obscenely rich were subject to a tax rate as high as ninety one percent. There were less than one hundred of them. My how things have changed.

Bryan Burrough former Wall Street Journal employee has written a book entitled the Big Rich. It makes the case that the actions of a handful of Texas oil men who hit it huge changed things for ever. One of the results was that three Texans have become president since they gained unprecedented wealth, and power.

I have linked an interesting review of the book. You will need to scroll down to the review. Fair warning you may get caught up in reading other entries before you get to the book review section.

http://www.toomuchonline.org/tmweekly.ht...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Sep 8, 2009, at 1:50 PM

Midmocat, did you feel the same way when the First President Bush and President Reagan gave "back to school" speeches to our children like our current president? Just curious!

-- Posted by OldOwl on Tue, Sep 8, 2009, at 1:41 PM

I find it very sad that our President wants to talk to our children about something important like education and people are upset. He isn't the first President to talk to our children about anything. Former First Lady Laura Bush stated over the weekend that she is happy with what President Obama wanted to say to the students and is sad with the fact that so many Republicans have made so many negative comments about our President. We had 8 years of chaos and you expect him to fix the country in nine months. Whatever. Also Mrs. Bush stated that he is our President and we need to respect that.

-- Posted by snorkel on Tue, Sep 8, 2009, at 1:40 PM

We are Living in an Artificially Induced State of Consciousness

http://www.infowars.com/we-are-living-in...

*Through the television, we are trained from birth to death as to what to believe.

Children who grow up in front of the TV learn to arrange their lives around TV programming and will likely grow up to be adults who get their entertainment, news, and information from it.

*Major media promotes experts on just about every topic you can imagine while implying that the public is too dumb or uneducated to make their own decisions about such topics as vaccinations, financial management, and medical interventions. In this way, the television is creating in individuals a sense of learned helplessness, leaving us dependent on those given to us as experts to direct our decisions and actions.

*The act of watching TV regularly is obedience to those in control. For total control in any system, everyone must be predictable. TV creates a collectivism society, where to be an individual is seen as an enemy to the peace within the collective society. Groupthink is essential in a society where everyone is to be controlled by those in power. more..

http://www.infowars.com/we-are-living-in...

-- Posted by Third Child on Tue, Sep 8, 2009, at 1:30 PM

Cheetah, since we have so few gloomy days here - it's home on the range, where the skies are not cloudy all day in this desertscape - I haven't had the opportunity to properly measure the steadfastness of these individuals in the same manner as you, so I'm fortunate to have your input.

I do have one instance to report in support of the resolve about which you speak. Someone visiting across the street parked their vehicle near our mailbox, and we received a friendly reminder, presumably from the courier, that interference with deliveries could result in severe penalty.

Have you had such an experience?

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Sep 8, 2009, at 1:29 PM

Cheetah - you're right, it never ends and you'll find this interesting reading in that regard:

http://tinyurl.com/nxd23u

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, Sep 8, 2009, at 1:17 PM

Charlie Sheen Requests Meeting With Obama Over 9/11 Cover-Up

http://www.infowars.com/charlie-sheen-re...

Charlie Sheen is once again using his prominent public platform in an attempt to expand a national debate about the disturbing unanswered questions behind 9/11, having first spoken out on the issue in March 2006.

Sheen is directly appealing to Barack Obama to read his letter and to look into the lies surrounding 9/11 for himself.

This is a call to action and a declaration of war on the lies of 9/11 that have formed the foundation of the endless wars abroad and the police state at home as the Republic falls. Sheen is demanding that truth activists and those who simply care about the future of the country stand up beside him and speak truth to power..

-- Posted by Third Child on Tue, Sep 8, 2009, at 1:14 PM

Just watched President Obama's speech to the students and not only was it a good speech, it was also very encouraging, supportive, and gave the kids a lot to think about. Good job President Obama.

-- Posted by snorkel on Tue, Sep 8, 2009, at 12:56 PM

Karma is real. We live in a spiritual universe. Good forces and bad. My eyes are opening to that. May all of our eyes be opened because our children are paying for our willful ignorance.

It is our responsibility and our duty to educate ourselves to truth. Not just accept what is poured into our empty heads by the media. How many lies does it take before we wake up?

Let the media attack the "truthers". That's called marketing.

Karma,

Your reaction is very rewarding. Finally, proof of an actual awakening. Charlie Sheen is a genius patriot. A lot of people will wake up because of Charlie Sheen. My hero..

Pass it on

Copy, paste, disseminate

http://www.infowars.com/twenty-minutes-w...

You are now authorized and empowered to pass on an awakening. I hope it doesn't take you as long as it has me. You have made my day. Thanks for posting

"Third Child, I have to say that you opened my eyes today(or maybe Charlie Sheen did). I read the interview that you had posted between he and the president. I didn't know whether to cry or be proud of the American people for questioning Mr. Obama. I for one did not vote for Obama...it all just makes you question our government and the world today. I myself worry about what kind of world my children are going to have to live in as they get older. Thank you for posting this and making me see things a little clearer. Although I have to say it has saddened me."

-- Posted by Third Child on Tue, Sep 8, 2009, at 12:50 PM

LOLOLOL...bested by Charlie Sheen. Oh, yeah...I'm crushed. Next up, a childcare book by Britney Spears. Can't wait.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, Sep 8, 2009, at 11:49 AM

There is no fiction in the facts.

20 bullet points, 20 minutes.

Charlie Sheen, is a genius.

-- Posted by Third Child on Tue, Sep 8, 2009, at 11:30 AM

karma,

Did you read the full article? It didn't happen. It is fiction.

M

-- Posted by missy08 on Tue, Sep 8, 2009, at 11:13 AM

Third Child, I have to say that you opened my eyes today(or maybe Charlie Sheen did). I read the interview that you had posted between he and the president. I didn't know whether to cry or be proud of the American people for questioning Mr. Obama. I for one did not vote for Obama...it all just makes you question our government and the world today. I myself worry about what kind of world my children are going to have to live in as they get older. Thank you for posting this and making me see things a little clearer. Although I have to say it has saddened me.

-- Posted by karma is real on Tue, Sep 8, 2009, at 10:55 AM

OMG, Cheetah! You're right! He (sometimes she) comes to my house, too! You don't suppose that throwing a woman in there every now and then is some kind of ploy, do you? You know, something to throw us off the real danger here?? And you know something else that disturbs me now that I think about it? This guy brought political propaganda right to my mailbox almost every single day during the 2008 election campaign and nothing I did, including shredding every bit of it, could stop him.

This is how the Nazis got started, isn't it? Nameless, faceless people bringing unwanted "documents" into our homes? No, no, don't spare me - I can take it!

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, Sep 8, 2009, at 10:38 AM

"Hey TC, you did notice the bottom of the article, right? Where it says "Author's Note: What you have just read didn't actually happen... yet."

Well that just elevates Charlie Sheen from an investigative reporter into something much higher. The cat's out of the bag. This will go viral and everyone gets an education.

That's what it's all about. Let the attacks begin..

-- Posted by Third Child on Tue, Sep 8, 2009, at 10:37 AM

Slater whispers to Cheetah: Hey! We have one of those around here, too! Same uniform, same kind of truck thingy, steering wheel in the same place! He leaves JUNK mail in the box, and does it with this HUGE grin on his face!

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Sep 8, 2009, at 10:13 AM

Hey TC, you did notice the bottom of the article, right? Where it says "Author's Note: What you have just read didn't actually happen... yet."

M

-- Posted by missy08 on Tue, Sep 8, 2009, at 10:12 AM

Charlie Sheen, gives a lesson to investigative reporters and the President of the United States

Twenty Minutes with the President

by Charlie Sheen

http://www.infowars.com/twenty-minutes-w...

-- Posted by Third Child on Tue, Sep 8, 2009, at 9:05 AM

Laura Bush praises Obama:

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/...

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Sep 8, 2009, at 12:56 AM

Well folks, if you worry that this "speaking out" forum tends to get our underwear in a knot over trivial matters, consider the Top Ten most popular stories from Time.com.

l. Why exercise won't make you thin.

2.People of Walmart (brings to mind Marcia's column 'bout running into to town w/o changing clothes.)

3. The Font war. IKEA changes type face. (Who knew? Who cares?)

4. Jay Leno is the future of TV. (This week's Parade has him acting as a job counselor! At least, if he loses his job he can sell his car collection)

5. Getting real about high prices of cheap food.

6. The teen brain: the more mature, the more reckless.

7. Comedy in the Obama age.

8. Airline Customer complaints: No answer.

9. Florida exodus: rising taxes, political ineptitude.

10. Neda's grave: a shrine to anger at Iran's Regime.

Beam me up, Scotty. I couldn't resist.Remember the Ohio congressman w/bad haircut, who used to say that on the House floor? He got out of the Federal Slammer after six years last week.

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Tue, Sep 8, 2009, at 12:27 AM

"No one's written your destiny for you. Here in America, you write your own destiny. You make your own future."

These words and like words have been said by millions of adults to millions of children over the decades, and the speakers have always been lauded for attempting to encourage the youth to aspire to their highest level.

Suddenly, now when Obama is about to say the same thing to millions of children, he's lying and attempting to brainwash young people.

I can't believe we're debating this point, and I'm still waiting to see the evidence supporting the allegations.

MLK, Jr. has to be spinning in his grave.

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Sep 7, 2009, at 11:46 PM

This part of Obama's speech is very close to a lie.

"No one's written your destiny for you. Here in America, you write your own destiny. You make your own future."

A lie isn't always what you say as much as what you don't say.

If Obama actually told the truth, the student's future (destiny) IS very much shaped (written) by others. These young people are already strapped with a huge debt before they've even had a chance to start earning a living. Obama and the predecessor puppets are as complicit as the private banking cartel that created the ponzi scheme of the private Federal Reserve a hundred years ago. The game is rigged. The fairy tale of a free trade and open markets is the big lie that literally shapes these student's futures for the worse.

If Obama were completely honest he would admit to shaping these kid's destiny with an endless war for empire that only serves these same crooked bankers as they also destroy American industry. When I was a kid anyone that wanted to work could find a job. That destiny has been robbed from these students.

Now these kid's hope of a career has largely been limited to jobs in the killing fields of empire or working in the fastest growing prison system in the world. That's our progress today.

They quite possibly could have their future written *INTO* the prison system. For doing the very same "crime" that the last three presidents have done and gotten away with. People are still not equal in America and the game is rigged for the murderous bankers. Obama ought to tell them the truth..

-- Posted by Third Child on Mon, Sep 7, 2009, at 10:56 PM

This arguing about tomorrow's speech is annoying. Someone put up links to every draft of the speech, along with their authors, so we can actually compare and contrast and end this bickering.

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Sep 7, 2009, at 10:33 PM

Thirdchild, I'm afraid to ask, but since you refer to the public schools as the public fool system, where were you educated?

-- Posted by oneofmany on Mon, Sep 7, 2009, at 10:32 PM

NanaDot, I agree about the Reagan speech in 1980. Wow, he really used his speech to children to push his agenda in terms of taxes. I wonder if people were upset about that. Interesting, isn't it?

-- Posted by oneofmany on Mon, Sep 7, 2009, at 9:12 PM

I could see if a teacher handed out bookmarks during the election. That would show bias to one candidate over the other. When I was in school, we had to memorize the names of the presidents. Do you think that is inappropriate? Would you want our current president eliminated from the list? How about any other presidents you didn't agree with on every issue?

-- Posted by oneofmany on Mon, Sep 7, 2009, at 8:45 PM

Here are the links to both Obama's speech tomorrow and the elder Bush's speech in 1991. Reagan's speech is also available but it appeared not to be broadcast to all schools. I'm guessing because there weren't TV's available in many schools at that time.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/MediaResources...

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/images...

Both are inspirational. I wouldn't have had a problem with my children listening to either one.

Folks keep in mind that there is currently a 30% drop-out rate. That's critical. One of the best ways to keep money in your pocket is to keep kids in school and give them skills so they can work in today's workforce!

-- Posted by oneofmany on Mon, Sep 7, 2009, at 8:30 PM

Here is a link to Arne Duncan's,Secretary of Education, description of the revision to the lesson plans for the speech. Apparently the original lesson plan encouraged students to write a letter to the president telling how education could improve.

http://www.cleveland.com/nation/index.ss...

-- Posted by oneofmany on Mon, Sep 7, 2009, at 8:20 PM

Third Child,

When I was in grade school we had the pictures of presidents in our class. Should those now be removed from classrooms? What, exactly is your problem? Is it that we have a black president?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Sep 7, 2009, at 7:44 PM

No, oneofmany, I didn't see it on Fox News. Rather rude of you to suggest that I would limit myself to one media outlet for my news and information. I suppose since I admitted I didn't vote for Obama that I can look forward to more insults in the future.

I went back to read what I wrote. I wrongly stated what I meant. It was some of the study materials which went out to the schools for teachers to use to go along with the speech which were changed. If the speech changed as a result, I have not read or heard that it did. Could it have? Sure.

And where did I get my information? From Obama's own Secretary of Education, Arne Duncan, who said it yesterday on CBS' Face the Nation.

-- Posted by Dawson16 on Mon, Sep 7, 2009, at 6:57 PM

I guess back then I was too busy burning the candle at both ends working to pay much attention to any Reagan speech. I can't remember any.

Are you sure that he also did a live feed into all the government schools in the middle of the day instead of an evening broadcast on regular TV?

What kid would listen to some politician's propaganda on regular TV if they had more than one channel? None.

Obama doesn't give them that option.

-- Posted by Third Child on Mon, Sep 7, 2009, at 6:01 PM

Third Child,

You, like so many others act as if this country didn't have a single problem until Jan. 20 of this year. We all know that isn't true. Many problems are the legacy of the past administration. Many are not, but where was the Bush admin. for the past 8 years? You act as if everything you feel is wrong with this country is Pres. Obama'a fault. I don't even remember reading you on this blog during the Bush admin.

I'll say it once again. Your hysteria and irrationality has gone from tiresome to little more than a joke. You keep talking as if everyone feels Obama is some sort of Messiah. Once again you are wrong but most of us are willing to give the man a chance just like I did Bush in his first year as president. What has he done that is so terrible other than try to make sure you have affordable healthcare?

Just remember that someday if you are sick and for whatever reason can't afford help will Alex Jones,Infowars and Prison Planet be there to help you out? More than likely they will step over you and leave you to writhe in pain and filth as they move on to thier next conspiracy.

Seems to me as if you are the only one who has a messiah and his name is Alex Jones.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Sep 7, 2009, at 6:00 PM

Quick question:

How many of you who are so upset about Obama's speech "brainwashing" our children send your kids to any organized religious activities? You don't think they "brainwash" your kids? Have you listened to some of the things they came home repeating?

-- Posted by STLgirlMarshallMom on Mon, Sep 7, 2009, at 6:00 PM

Famersgranddaughter, I'm puzzled. Was it the librarian as you first said or the 7th grade com arts teacher? Either way, you should call that person and tell them how you feel rather than hide behind the blog.

-- Posted by oneofmany on Mon, Sep 7, 2009, at 5:36 PM

Just curious. Where did you get your information that the speech was changed? From the Fox News Network??

-- Posted by oneofmany on Mon, Sep 7, 2009, at 5:20 PM

School topics are hot these days. Schools have to handle the Obama speech. Marshall district has been news for two years, now reprising the MAP flap at Eastwood.

It could be worse. At least Marshall is not Sedalia 200. Google "Smith Cotton band shirt" or "Sedalia evolution" to see how a politically inspired decision on band shirts depicting the "Brass Evolution" instrument theme went worldwide viral, with international condemnation of Sedalia as backward and irrational.

Check these (http://www.fox4kc.com/wdaf-school-band-evolution-shirt-desi gn-083109,0,4592269.story), or here (http://www.sedaliademocrat.com/news/0px-18740-span-font.htm l), or here (http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/2009/aug/30/sedalia-hig h-school-pulls-evolution-band-t-shirts/). And the satirical youtube video http://www.youtube.com/user/smithcottona...

-- Posted by Cat13 on Mon, Sep 7, 2009, at 5:08 PM

I've read a few pages of Obama's speech and I had to take a break..

I got to the point where he says if you quit the public fool system you are quiting the country!

To me, that looks like good ol' national socialism propaganda all wrapped up in a fancy suit and a tie.

I'm not impressed. I hope some kid jumps up and asks him where his birth certificate is or how could he actually spend one billion dollars just to get elected?

They should also ask him why he doesn't put a stop to all the illegal wiretapping or the murder of innocent brown people overseas in order to control their oil or the heroin business world wide?

But they won't ask because they are trained to shut up and listen and because they are probably just too excited about singing a happy Obama singsong to the beloved president..

They don't know it now, and won't for a while, but the war that is being waged in Afghanistan and Pakistan today for their "safety and freedom" will surely be waiting for them as soon as they become old enough to pull a trigger for empire.

They should ask about their mandatory participation in these never ending wars for empire and the destruction of the United States because these kids are the ones that are going to pay the bill for all of that for years to come..

They won't ask because they are children.

-- Posted by Third Child on Mon, Sep 7, 2009, at 5:00 PM

Hey news across,

There are Democrats who didn't vote for Obama. And there are people who do not affiliate themselves with any political party but have mostly voted Democratic over the years, like myself, who didn't vote for him.

So to group everyone as a Republican is incorrect.

The speech was changed. That's why I commented that I was alright with it since the political aspects were omitted.

-- Posted by Dawson16 on Mon, Sep 7, 2009, at 4:56 PM

Hey Republicans...

...here is a link to the written transcript of the President's speech...I read it...all of it...every word of it...where are all those terrible things you said would be in it??? It looks to me like you Republicans lied to us...again.

The Presidents speech can be found here

http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/09/07/p...

and here

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32723584/ns/...

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Sep 7, 2009, at 4:07 PM

The only ones that don't believe Obama is going to brainwash and program their children are those that were brainwashed and programmed into voting for him last november.

You people get a grip and admit you were lied to. What has OBama done to reverse the damage Bush and Cheney did to the Constitution and our liberty? Not a thing! Obama is a seamless continuation of the Bush administration with all the violations of Bush, ongoing, and covered up..

Obama gets away with escalating the insane wars without opposition where McCain would have at least have been challenged by the, sometimes, part time peace movement. Obama is now the depression/war president and the neocon corpocracy is fine with that. No protests there..

News, please give us a list of something good that Obama has done for us consumers, besides robbing our grandchildren?

How is he any different than Bush?

-- Posted by Third Child on Mon, Sep 7, 2009, at 4:06 PM

OMG! You mean someone put a picture of our President on a bookmark! Bunch of Nazis. To Farmer's granddaughter & TC...The sky is falling. Bahahaha!

-- Posted by JustFYI on Mon, Sep 7, 2009, at 3:35 PM

farmer'sgranddaughter,

Are you suggesting we put the Republicans back into power?

Perhaps you forgot what those folks did to our Nation the last time we tried that. Let me remind you of what happened. 2 wars...still raging on -- thousands of American kids dead and nothing to show for it, torture, corruption at the highest levels, lying to the American people, lying to Congress, and not just 1 but two great depressions in less than 100 years are what the Republicans have to offer...thanks but no thanks!

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Sep 7, 2009, at 3:15 PM

The Obama bookmarks were passed out to 7th grade Communication Arts students, not placed for all to take if they wanted them!

I was more than willing to give President Obama a chance. The news events of the last two weeks or more are making up my mind

Enough said, you all can make up your own minds!

We are seeing what kind of person many of you elected in 2008. Goodbye USA as we know it!

Election 2012 can't come quick enough.

-- Posted by farmer'sgranddaughter on Mon, Sep 7, 2009, at 3:02 PM

Peace movement: Too dejected even to hold up a sign

Code Pink

http://counterpunch.com/cockburn09042009...

Deeper Into the Tunnel

*As General Stan McChrystal plans his march on Washington to demand more troops in Afghanistan the antiwar movement lies on the sidewalk, as inert and forlorn as a homeless person in the rain at a street corner, too dejected even to hold up a sign.

Is there any sign of life in a movement that marshaled hundreds of thousands to march in protest against war in Iraq? Ah, but those were the Bush years. Now we have a Democrat in the White House.

One person hasn't tossed aside her peace sign. Cindy Sheehan sees war as war, whether the battle standard is being waved by a white moron from Midland, Texas or an eloquent black man from Chicago. But when she called for protesters to join her on Martha's Vineyard to stand outside Obama's holiday roost for four days at the end of August there was a marked contrast to the response she got when she rallied thousands to stand outside Bush's Crawford lair.

-- Posted by Third Child on Mon, Sep 7, 2009, at 2:33 PM

Is this where we're at now?

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2009...

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Sep 7, 2009, at 2:06 PM

Word up Jim!! ;)

Thanks for the laugh, I had to put my hat on sideways to really get the full grasp of the video.

Saw a shirt in Columbia over the weekend said: "I run DC" it has a pimpin' Obama on the front with some 'blig'!! Was a great laugh.

-- Posted by Scarpetta on Mon, Sep 7, 2009, at 1:28 PM

"you'd have trouble convincing me that the current system is a good one."

If you don't like your insurance company now you sure aren't going to like Obamacare any better. The insurance companies WANT Obama to pass *their* special interest health care bill that MANDATES that everyone HAS to purchase medical insurance from a private, for profit, commercial insurance corporation. That really makes the insurance executives angry..

Obama premptively gave up anything even remotely associated with benefit or savings to the American consumer. Single payer and fair price on drugs. Obama sold out to big pharma for a small chunk of propaganda money. People want to ignore the corporate money that got Obama elected.

Obamacare is going to be legalized plunder of the American consumer, rape and pillage of their bodies. Real healthcare would be prevention, nutrition, and de-tox.

We have to stop poisoning ourselves needlessly. We're all going to die of something but it's insane to pay to poison your children in your water bill.

They could fix the healthcare crisis, as it is percieved, tomorrow, with a simple Medicare plan for everybody. It works. It's what we pay for. It's up and running and it doesn't pass a huge power and bureaurocracy over to the people that created the problem in the first place.

Obamacare, at the behest of big pharma and big insurance is not socialism, it's fascism. And we, as a people are about to get deloused. Yeah Obama!

-- Posted by Third Child on Mon, Sep 7, 2009, at 12:56 PM

I am one of the lucky ones in that I have always had insurance for myself and my family. However, I live every day with a decision that the insurance company made several years ago, just as HMO's were starting to control doctors. They denied that I needed the surgery my doctor wanted to perform and instead opted for a less invasive procedure. Because of that decision, two years later I had to have the surgery my doctor wanted to perform in the first place. I had constant pain for the two years. It ended up costing them more money in the long run. I ended up with nerve damage that still bothers me to this day and will for the rest of my life. If they had not interfered in the first place, I doubt that it would have been that way...and so does my doctor. I recently ran across the letter of denial from the insurance company, and it made my blood run cold. Yeah, you'd have trouble convincing me that the current system is a good one.

-- Posted by oneofmany on Mon, Sep 7, 2009, at 11:50 AM

My friend, the teacher at Bueker, says the librarian leaves bookmarks out for the kids to pick up. It is strictly optional. No one is forced to take a bookmark. Actually, I'm sure there were bookmarks of Bush, Clinton, etc., during their administrations. I consider myself an Independent when it comes to voting, but I'm telling you, I'm leaning more to the Democrats the longer this silliness goes on. Never have I seen such pettiness over an election. Hey, I don't agree with everything Obama endorses, but he was elected our president. Maybe next time, the Republicans will nominate a more viable candidate for president AND vice president.We need to send the message to our children that just because we don't agree with everything, he is our leader. It is a sad day when we are making a big deal of our children receiving a bookmark with a picture of our president on it....any president. Somehow, I doubt that any of this would have been an issue if McCain had won the election. Would parents be upset about receiving a bookmark with his face on it?

-- Posted by oneofmany on Mon, Sep 7, 2009, at 11:41 AM

Ooooo...well said, WTF. I never thought of it that way.

-- Posted by oneofmany on Mon, Sep 7, 2009, at 11:27 AM

Yeah, you guys are right.

Let's go back to the last administration. Let's kill 'em all and let god sort 'em out. Let's lie our people into war. Let's torture. Let's make sure private contactors make obscene amounts of money in the process via no bid contracts. Let's make sure that corporations continue to run the federal govt. Yeah. Let's stick with that. We are all clinically insane if we keep doing the same things while expecting different results.

It seems to me that alot of the anger towards President Obama goes much deeper than healthcare reform or bookmarks. If that's the case then as a country we have gone nowhere and we seem to be moving backwards.

I'll post this question again. Would anyone else agree that the military and healthcare industries share a common goal? To maintain the heatlh and well being of our citizens? To protect us from death if nescessary? How would you feel if the military only protected a certain percentage of the population? Would you stand for it?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Sep 7, 2009, at 11:12 AM

Really upset because the President wants to talk to students. Here is what I got from the White House website:

On Tuesday, September 8 -- the first day of school for many students -- the President will talk directly to students across the country on the importance of taking responsibility for their education, challenging them to set goals and do everything they can to succeed.

So the President wants kids to stay in school, get a good education and set goals for themselves to be successful. So now he is trying to brainwash our kids. Good grief!

-- Posted by snorkel on Mon, Sep 7, 2009, at 10:54 AM

The Obama bookmarks were distributed in the library I believe and from what I understand they only had his picture and name on it. I don't know what was on the other side. My child has made his or her own mind up about our current president without influence from us. He or she usually keeps a bookmark to use if the theme is "neat" or "catchy", this one ended up in the trash!

Smart Kid, huh!

-- Posted by farmer'sgranddaughter on Mon, Sep 7, 2009, at 10:38 AM

"I honestly know very little about the fluoride issue, but I can say with certainty that its addition to the water can ruin an otherwise good cup of coffee."

Fluoride is tasteless. That's why they use it for rat poison.

You are undoubtedly tasting the "fresh and minty" nice, 'disinfectant' chlorine or some such derivitive..

-- Posted by Third Child on Mon, Sep 7, 2009, at 10:35 AM

Why bother?

"A rational reply to the source of irrational statement will not register regardless of cogency. Nor will the challenge be comprehended by those who have been persuaded by the original balderdash. So, why bother?"

It's impossible to attack any irrational statements if you aren't able to pinpoint and define what irrational statement you are referring to.

Your argument is neither rational or cogent, Oklahoma Reader. It's pretty much smoke and mirrors. There is no substance, only emotion and innuendo.

You do get credit though for being a good soldier in the war of emotion and disinformation. Keep selling the snake oil and when your death panel review comes up there is sure to be an asterisk there to denote your loyalty to the party. Surely they'll never pull the plug on such a fervent believer..

Obamacare IS a Eugenics Program

http://www.infowars.com/obamacare-is-a-e...

"before denying healthcare to the elderly and the handicapped became a national joke, there was a flicker of debate about what the mainstream media mockingly labeled as "death panels." I regret to inform the readers that these panels do in fact exist both within this bill as well as other legislation. Section 1233 of the healthcare bill is rife with clauses that establish government control over the health care procedures you undergo particularly at the end of life. This section asserts that a government approved list of end of life resources will be established(Section 1233, p. 425) as well as the required "end of life counseling" every five years or if his/her health takes a sudden turn for the worst (Section 1233, P.425). It goes even further to say that a government board will determine what level of treatment you will receive, if any, at the end of your life (Section 1233, P.430). Section 1162 indicates that the government will mandate what it calls "outcome based measures," which is a polite way of saying rationing (Section 1162, P.335)"

-- Posted by Third Child on Mon, Sep 7, 2009, at 9:27 AM

McCain campaign-stop factory ceases paying health premiums, tells no one:

http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/09/06/f...

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Sep 7, 2009, at 3:52 AM

For the time being I am not going to challenge any of the posts that defy rationality. I am convinced that such challenge is futile. A rational reply to the source of irrational statement will not register regardless of cogency. Nor will the challenge be comprehended by those who have been persuaded by the original balderdash. So, why bother?

Such cockamamie gains credence from time to time with those who are confused, and out of sorts because of inevitable change that threatens their emotional comfort zone. Usually it will blow away with the wind when the newness of the change has dissipated.

However, I will remain vigilant,and speak again should I perceive that a true threat to social order is arising from such inanities. We must always challenge the Joe McCarthys, the Adolph Hitlers, and the Dick Cheneys of our world.

Free speech is no more the province of the wise than of the whacky. The irritating messiness of such liberty is small price for its rewards.

So, I will read such posts, mutter balderdash, or cockamamie under my breath, and move on to read the next post.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Sep 7, 2009, at 3:07 AM

Thanks for the link NanaDot. I am a looong time reader of Mother Earth, but had for some reason gotten away from it. The link gave me validation to some of my long held beliefs, and a reminder to reengage with Mother Earth News.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Sep 7, 2009, at 1:23 AM

It is not surprising to me to read some of these post's, with the way the Lunatic fringe has taken over. The News Media hasen't helped by Putting it on the News every 30 min. Like you can make sense out of lunacy! Unless they, (Our Government) does think we are Lunatic! By some of these post's they may be right!?? Support this Guy, Obama! He is as close to Honest as we are likely to get,from any Politician! We can't keep shooting our self's in the foot. We had 8 years of Fascism, and almost a Hijacking of (OUR) Government!? But what does surprise me , is ,the unnecessary fear i see in some of these Post! That must devastating to your life? But what do i know? Good nite to all, Relax everyone! ha. W. T., & Kathy , still working on the Eyes! Nothing to report, yet. Thanks.

-- Posted by Jo on Mon, Sep 7, 2009, at 1:21 AM

Thanks, News. I was just trying to make the point that we all see reality a little differently in some cases. Not necessarily better than the next person, but different.

TC,I agree with some points you make, but your fervor sometimes is a bit strong.

I honestly know very little about the fluoride issue, but I can say with certainty that its addition to the water can ruin an otherwise good cup of coffee.

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, at 11:24 PM

Slater,

That was an excellent comment. I think you flat-out set the record straight.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, at 9:47 PM

Today I spoke with a friend who teaches at Bueker. She told me she's puzzled by the Obama bookmark. It must have been an individual teacher because they weren't distributed to everyone.

-- Posted by oneofmany on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, at 9:39 PM

No, I don't agree that it's a herd mentality that prompts parents to trust the physician to treat their children with what's known to be the best available techniques and medicines at that time.

Just because the correlation between a given treatment and the onset of some condition may be statistically significant doesn't mean much if the number is, say, .05. Yes, it's on the scale, but hardly a number to cause wholesale changes in a treatment method. Certainly more studies are in order, but that isn't the time to throw the baby out the window with the bathwater.

I believe a herd mentality applies more to the followers of a cult figure, for example. Obama's Youth Corp, whatever that is, is not an example of brainwashing, herd mentality, or any other similar descriptor. It happens to be nothing more than an expansion of what was called Americorp (formerly VISTA-Volunteers in Service to America). There's one working in the Saline County government someplace. The purpose is to recruit young people to take paid volunteer positions in organizations all across America and provide an array of services to the communities and organizations within the communities. A year of service qualifies the individual to receive a sum of money to apply toward college tuition. The Bush Administration had substantially reduced the funding, and the Obama administration wants to make the program viable once again.

As to the old dog learning new tricks, people change very little during their lives. The traits and characteristics learned and inherent from childhood remain essentially unchanged.

Watch out. If you're successful at changing the mindset of certain young people, you could be accused of being a herder, or worse. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, at 9:08 PM

"generally, people tend to seek out information that most closely coincides with their own beliefs"

That's the herd mentality, Drew. People willingly accept the poisoning of their own children because of this herd mentality.

My efforts are to try and break through that mindset. The young people are starting to understand that they are being lied to. It's a little tougher to shatter older belief systems and dogmas.. You know,.. old dogs and new tricks..

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?c...

"It's The Vaccines Stupid!"

Part I: Evidence Linking Autism Rise in Children to Vaccinations by F. William Engdahl

"A new study shows a direct link between standard childhood vaccination series, MMR, and autism-like symptoms in monkeys."

-- Posted by Third Child on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, at 6:56 PM

Upsedaisy made a good point a few months ago when she said that, generally, people tend to seek out information that most closely coincides with their own beliefs, and I believe that's pretty much true.

Unfortunately, the reverse side of that is that those same people may not take the time to digest all points of view before proclaiming their thoughts, regardless of which side of the divide they're on.

It doesn't mean that we're going to be in agreement if we endeavor to see both sides, but maybe we'd come a bit closer to resurrecting the "loyal Opposition" theme which Ms. Fairchild mentioned seems to be history.

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, at 6:18 PM

Eric,

I am sorry I misspelled your last name using a K rather than a C in my prior comment.

I have no explanation for the mistake except perhaps its because its early morning here in Oz and I am still on my first coffee. All apologies for the error Mate.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, at 6:17 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
No problem, News. No offense taken. Sounds the same either way, eh?

Third Child,

I have, in the past, asked Editor Krump what the Marshall Democrat's policy is regarding what is and what is not acceptable for print or posting. He explained that policy and the Marshall Democrat's objective criteria for acceptable comments simply and in easy to understand terms. I found that policy to be fair, reasonable, and structured in line with the policies of most major newspapers. I have seen that policy applied fairly across the board in this forum many times. I have never seen Editor Krump veer from that objective policy...not one time.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, at 6:10 PM

"Pretty soon you may be censured for wasting so much space in here."

I'm repeatedly censured here, Drew. It's not for wasting space, whatever that means to you, I'm being censored for ideas that do not coincide with that of the hypnotized masses. Plenty others are censored too. That's why I started a new Saline County discussion group.

Consumers that get censored here can post at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/salinecoun...

-- Posted by Third Child on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, at 5:50 PM

TC, obviously you're like all the rest who panic without having the slightest knowledge of the issue.

Pretty soon you may be consured for wasting so much space in here.

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, at 5:30 PM

I look forward to our President's education speech.

I feel quite certain that if we are attacked during his address of the children, he won't sit there dumbfounded for 7 minutes with nothing but an empty look on his face...like the conservatives choice for the White House did on 9/11 2001. I believe this is a President we can trust.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, at 5:26 PM

25 reasons to oppose Obamacare

http://www.cchconline.org/pdf/25reasonsO...

#11. Individual Mandate & Imposed Tax -- Mandate will impose national health care.

Those without "acceptable coverage" (per federal definition) must pay 2.5% of their income to the government...unless a nonresident alien or have religious exemption. (Sec. 401)

-- Posted by Third Child on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, at 5:20 PM

Third Child,

You hysteria and irrationality is becoming very tiresome.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, at 5:19 PM

HR1388

"If you've read the final version, you should be able to summarize it in four or five sentences."

Mandatory slavery, Stazi style.

-- Posted by Third Child on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, at 5:12 PM

ValleyDude, I'm moving in your direction.

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, at 3:39 PM

TC, explain to me in CONCISE terms the PURPOSE of H.R. 1388. No rambling discourse. If you've read the final version, you should be able to summarize it in four or five sentences.

Also, what do you know about Americorp?

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, at 3:37 PM

Thanks Third Child,

When I first heard of this Obama mumbo jumbo talking to the kids, I said this. "He's going to brain wash the kids."

'Nobama 09

-- Posted by ieatsuperglue on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, at 3:27 PM

I'm alright with the Obama school speech as long as he makes it about education and not politics.

AND, as long as he promotes the country, and not himself. Schools sending home Obama bookmarks seems odd and, in my opinion, not relevant to education. I haven't seen the bookmarks though. What did they say?

-- Posted by Dawson16 on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, at 3:09 PM

If one were to use Obama's middle name, Hussein, during the election campaign.. they were bitterly ostracized as racist haters.

Now the school children are being taught to sing the name in worshipful songs to their great leader.. hmmm..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOtGr1JFC...

-- Posted by Third Child on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, at 3:06 PM

Obama's Plan to Indoctrinate Students Hits Speed Bump

"Domestic terrorists with children all around the country are outraged by the stunt and many of them plan to keep their kids out of school on Tuesday."

http://www.infowars.com/

Obama kids sing for their leader

http://www.youtube.com/watch?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLprurE7E...

-- Posted by Third Child on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, at 2:52 PM

Okay, folks. I'm puzzled as to why our president speaking to children about working hard in school and setting goals is so offensive. Doesn't sound like brainwashing to me. Both Reagan and George W. made similar speeches to America's school children during their administrations and that was all right. Sounds like much ado about nothing.

-- Posted by oneofmany on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, at 2:47 PM

Well said, movaldude.

-- Posted by oneofmany on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, at 2:37 PM

"In a competitive environment, there is no room for equality."

Fanboy, is this your statement, or is it a statement made by one of your professors?

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, at 1:09 PM

Clunker cash for foreign cars

"I wonder if our Commander in Chief finds it a rather amusingly slap to the face."

It's the slave taxpayers that were slapped in the face and it isn't all that amusing.

-- Posted by Third Child on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, at 12:28 PM

9/06/09

"Saline County Consumer" discussion group formed this morning..

Become a founding member of the Saline County Truth Brigade.

Become the media

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/salinecoun...

-- Posted by Third Child on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, at 11:31 AM

Movaldude,

Your views are most definitely NOT shared by us all. Since when does disagreeing with an administration qualify someone as a nutjob or a radical? Since Obama has taken office, that's when. I don't care what color you are...anyone who is pro abortion, pro gay marriage, has a muslim background, is anti-israel, wants to hold hands and sing kumbaya with the likes of Hugo Chavez and Ahmedinajad has never and will never receive my support or respect no matter what office he holds. And he most certainly will not be enlisting the "help" of my children via the public school system.

-- Posted by OMG! on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, at 10:48 AM

As for the "Obama Indoctrination", Bueker students were given Obama bookmarks on Friday!

Some kids did not accept one, some of them drew on them!

To answer a previous question:

The corporate jet in the MDN photo last week probably belonged to the owners of CoreSlab Structures, Inc., who were in town last week.

-- Posted by farmer'sgranddaughter on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, at 9:09 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
That's correct. It was a CoreSlab jet.

movaldude, news across, Eric: Did enjoy Doonesbury this morning - a perfect expression of what's been going on lately.

I've been through many elections, with both wins and losses to my "credit," but this latest uproar over a president elected by a decent majority is unparalleled.

Civility in debate is long gone. The ability to disagree without being disagreeable bit the dust several years ago and any pretense of the "loyal opposition" is only a memory.

Chill pills for all, I say!

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, at 8:19 AM

Maybe conspiracy theorists aren't fringers after all :-)

http://tinyurl.com/myzdnq

Even the White House has (er, had) one:

http://tinyurl.com/mmxyz8

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, at 7:55 AM

Well put movaldude...well said.

I feel very confident that your sentiments are indeed shared by the majority of us.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, at 2:43 AM

Well I do believe that the radicals on the right and the libertarian wacko's are dressing up their opposition to the President's speech to children with platitudes which are just plain old racism. Being a WASP myself I'm still offended. So many people have said very racist things about the President to another white person who they think agrees with them. Well I for one don't agree with the radicals. Presidents of both parties have given speeches to children. It is part of their civics lessons. It is part of history. It appears by all reason that his speech is going to be about staying in school and studying hard. Boy is that a politically charged idea.

Here is my bottom line... Citizens voted for Obama and he won, PERIOD. (And it did not take his brother or the Supreme Court to put him in office) He is our President. If you are a good citizen of the US you will be respectful of the office of the President. In 4 years you can vote against him. PERIOD. Our country is made up of Liberals, Moderates, and Conservatives. Who calmly go about their day working for this great land. BUT SOME OF YOU NUT CASES NEED TO TAKE A CHILL PILL.

-- Posted by movaldude on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, at 1:10 AM

Ike Skelton finally sent his reply to my question, how did he justify voting for the 1500 page CO2 cap and tax bill without even reading it?

His non-answer was, 'so he would have a "seat at the table" when the bill came back from Senate passage, because he wanted to 'protect the farmer's interest' in the matter'. What made him believe the Senate was going to pass this crap?

I knew what Ike Skelton was when he sold out America on NAFTA. He wouldn't take any of my comments at the time because I lived just outside his district. Foreign lobbyist didn't live in the district either but he sure had an ear for them!

Well now I live in Ike Skelton's district and he still doesn't represent me..

-- Posted by Third Child on Sat, Sep 5, 2009, at 9:42 PM

c'mon kathy fairchild, the argument that another president has addressed our kids in school is weak ... have you not seen the original teacher's plan that the obama group had? of course they changed it to a generic type of message, because your bud barack has stepped in it every way he goes and the whole white house is enjoying amateur hour there.

he originally asked what can we do for our dear leader barack, write an essay for us? trying to side-step the parents and go straight to the kids, hoping they will convince parents.?

that screams desperations of a rookie community organizing president who gave control to idiots pelosi and reid and is reaping the "benefits" of his stupidity.

we are engaged, and we are listening.

i think the voters of district 4 should look at ike stelton ... mr. skelton has chosen to not hold a single townhall meeting, choosing only to reply to my emails and phone calls with a couple generic letters. how weak. i've voted for this man since i was eligible to vote. but ... i will be supporting his opponent if not only because skelton has been there forever, is set in his ways, but it's time for a change. change. change we can alllllll believe in. the RIGHT kind of change.

-- Posted by aikman8 on Sat, Sep 5, 2009, at 8:44 PM

President Obama is not the first president to address the nation's children, as this story shows.

http://tinyurl.com/kpa35s

It wasn't without controversy then, but the outrageous blasts directed at the current president are quite a bit uglier and more personal in nature.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sat, Sep 5, 2009, at 8:19 PM

Obama's speech to the nations children

Indoctrination Of 'Obama Youth' In Schools Accelerates

"It essentially tries to force kids to say the president and the presidency is inspiring, and that's very problematic," McCluskey said. "It's very concerning that you would do that."

McCluskey noticed several passages in the lesson plans that seemingly glorify Obama and advance the cult-like persona being built around him, especially when it comes to young people.

Go to the link to find series of "Obama Youth" videos.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/indoctrinati...

-- Posted by Third Child on Sat, Sep 5, 2009, at 7:54 PM

On health debate, Moyers urges Obama: 'No more Mr. Nice Guy':

http://rawstory.com/blog/2009/09/on-heal...

With video

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Sep 5, 2009, at 3:58 PM

TC - Use our search function to find information on the Marshall Airport.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sat, Sep 5, 2009, at 3:32 PM

Who owns the jet that was in the recent MDN headline photo? That one was pretty good size. How long is the runway now? What specific upgrades are being made?

-- Posted by Third Child on Sat, Sep 5, 2009, at 2:33 PM

Eye witness reports of helicopter "approach" training at Marshall International Airport solicited at:

http://www.marshallnews.com/story/156781...

Or here.. suit yourself..

-- Posted by Third Child on Sat, Sep 5, 2009, at 2:24 PM

Sorry WTF, ConAgra is out of the picture since the city is spending your money building a runway to accommodate jet traffic.

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Sep 5, 2009, at 2:19 PM

Here's a link to a satellite photo:

http://missouri.hometownlocator.com/mo/s...

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Sep 5, 2009, at 10:06 AM

I'm starting to get on board with the new school issue provided it can be expanded upon for future grades. I cannot get on board with the current porposed location as it is basically out of town with only highway access.

You know it's too bad that the city of Marshall couldn't offer an incentive filled, super duper proposal to get Con Agra to build a new plant at the industrial park. Anyone that works there will tell you that right now the place is held together with spit and prayers. A new location would also give thier trucks better access to the highway. That would then free up plenty of centrally located real estate for a new school campus. I forgot the link but it's easy to find a satellite pic of Marshall and you can see what I mean.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Sep 5, 2009, at 9:59 AM

aikman8: "i'm getting the idea that the demo-news is a proponent of a new school and is the school system's word piece."

So it may appear, but here's why: To write balanced stories, I need sources who will represent various viewpoints. Right now, I have plenty of sources willing to present the district's side of things on the record and under their real names. No group or individual that I know of has stepped forward to speak on the record for opposing viewpoints. I'd be delighted to talk with any one who does!

Folks posting comments on the Web site can be sources, too, but of course, anonymous sources don't have the same weight as named sources. But a few weeks ago I gathered up as many questions and criticisms as I could find from our conversations here and asked district officials to respond to them. Wrote three stories based on comments made here.

I appreciate the long comment you made today. I'll continue to ask the district the questions raised here.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Sat, Sep 5, 2009, at 7:14 AM

aikman8 said, "that screams to me that a certain school board will be coming back to the voters in 5 or so years asking for another bond issue."

Board members say all the older buildings need to be replaced as soon as possible and that means future bond issues, yes. The current plan includes building a second elementary school just south of the proposed new school, assuming the land could be acquired.

One point made at the bond committee meeting Thursday was that Marshall is one of the few districts of its size that doesn't have a debt service levy. If this one passes, the board could maintain the debt service levy to build schools in the future -- possibly without raising taxes again.

This would be the first phase of a long range building program.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Sat, Sep 5, 2009, at 6:57 AM

upsedaisy: I wonder if a complete newspaper story qualifies for that 25% off! Plenty of those in the old quilt, LOLOL ;)

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sat, Sep 5, 2009, at 6:22 AM

I went on a "siblings weekend" with my brother and sister in NYC several years ago. We stayed at the hotel next to the Algonquin. I can't remember the name, but all we had to tell cab drivers is that it was "next to the Algonquin" and they got us there everytime!! We went and looked around at the piano room. Cool place!!

-- Posted by Marcia Gorrell on Sat, Sep 5, 2009, at 12:42 AM

Third Child: Thank you for taking the time to answer my question.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Sep 5, 2009, at 12:28 AM

Slater,

Kathy is right. It is now called the Oak Room Supper Club. During our time in NYC, it was called the Oak Room. Convenient for media lunches. I notice they have a "writer's rate" show them a work in progress or recently completed and you'll enjoy another 25% off the best possible rate. (I wish!) Kathy, do you have a manuscript underneath your "hush-hush" quilt?

Great to hear your mission lounge chair price has gone down.

Macy's response to the 9.7% unemployment rate? Gazooks!

Hope you are in town long enough to see everything you want to see.

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Fri, Sep 4, 2009, at 10:00 PM

Slater: I think it's the Oak Room you're talking about at the Algonquin.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Fri, Sep 4, 2009, at 8:15 PM

Upsedaisy,

That's an interesting bit of news about Dan McLaughlin. I never heard his broadcasts, and if I had I'm sure I wouldn't have understood much. :)

We're on the northwest corner of San Antonio and the Air Force traffic passes overhead fairly often. In the 23 years we've lived out here we've become accustomed to the drone and most times it doesn't even register with me. Noise is a part of our lives, but for those living in the quiet zones, like Tori, I suppose it does make them wonder how others can tolerate it. Like the heat of summer and the cold of winter, we learn to do our best to ignore it.

My patience has paid off. Macy's has reduced the sale price of that recliner I've been eyeing by another $50. :)

I'm expecting to have an enjoyable trip, thank you. Enjoyable but shorter than I prefer.

Have you been to the piano room at the Algonquin Hotel? (Don't know what that part of the place is called, officially.)

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Sep 4, 2009, at 7:28 PM

earl peters,

How would you have felt if Air Force One landed here when Bush was president?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Sep 4, 2009, at 7:16 PM

Mr. Peters - we appreciate you asking the question, because it gave us an opportunity to educate ourselves and our readers today. The folks at Whiteman were more than happy to give us the information we asked for. KF :)

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Fri, Sep 4, 2009, at 7:01 PM

Once again earlpeters you speak the truth. I'm with you what ever they cart around on Air Force One they can keep,don't need it here. You really think of running for Mayor of Marshall. We could use a person of your wisdom.

-- Posted by Marshall Man on Fri, Sep 4, 2009, at 5:02 PM

Sorry Earl,

For 35 years, I've been living w/medical helicopters coming in for night landings. Believe me, the landing lights are on, indeed, they are so low we can see the people inside. Our windows rattle. Sometimes, the helicopter has to circle, waiting for the pad to clear. Once, it looked as if one was going to land in our upper pasture! I'm glad that at some point the helicopter pilots were able to practice so they can handle the helicopter safely.

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Fri, Sep 4, 2009, at 4:54 PM

O.M.G.!

-- Posted by litlmissme on Fri, Sep 4, 2009, at 4:27 PM

i am proud of our air port and all the boys that are serving i salute. i am not complaining about and occasional fly by and am not some lunatic complaining about medical copters. medical copters do not shine lights in your window. all im saying is that military excercises can be conducted away from civilans. as for air space the military has alot of airspace outside the city limits as well as inside. and as for air force one, would i be glad if it landed in marshall. hell no. they can keep what ever they got on that plane i dont want no part of it. all i have seen air force one do lately is scare the people of new york and cart around somebody more concerned with speeches then getting something done.

earl peters

-- Posted by earlpeters on Fri, Sep 4, 2009, at 4:19 PM

Our home of 35 years is on the flight path for helicopters going in and out of a University teaching hospital. The traffic is 24 hours a day. There is a Jaycee Burn Center so patients are brought in from all over the state. Within the past six months, when the ConAgra plant in Garner exploded and fireworks for a July 4 celebration on the Outer Banks went off while still in the truck, victims were brought in by helicopter. Patients from Womack military hospital at Fort Bragg are transported here. Yes, it wakes us up, and w/the lights shining in our windows, scenes from Mash come to mind. The dog barks. What do I do? I pray for the people who are so seriously injured they require immediate transport. I pray for the safekeeping of those who pilot the helicopters.

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Fri, Sep 4, 2009, at 4:09 PM

I can't believe how some of you people complain about every little thing. I grew up next to the airport with planes flying over our house. Get used to it! I live elsewhere now and the noise didn't bother me one bit! I would have loved to watch their exercises. Besides we should be proud of our local airport. It is not just a sport airport. It is used by many businesses. I hope that the recent improvements will attract some business besides the corporate jet that was shown in the picture. And wouldn't it be nice if Air Force One did land in our fair city? It would certainly place Marshall on the national news scope in a positive light.

-- Posted by farmer'sgranddaughter on Fri, Sep 4, 2009, at 3:55 PM

Hey here is another idea for you all that cant take the noise from the helo the other night.

How about you call down to the air base and give them your name so they can put you on there list of people to leave behind if we ever have a need for them to evacuate us seeing how it's a problem for you all.................

PS I just called my Son-Inlaw that just happens to live on Saltpond one block from the airport and he said all that happened at their house was my Grandson wanted to see the helo,He said is was no big deal it was not even 9PM.

-- Posted by Gal66 on Fri, Sep 4, 2009, at 2:12 PM

Third Child

Grow a garden and get a rain barrel. There. All fixed.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Sep 4, 2009, at 2:09 PM

Just don't move within 100 miles of a military base because they do training day and night and they need airspace to train in.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Fri, Sep 4, 2009, at 2:05 PM

TC is every thing a conspiracy of some sort or another?

For everyone crying about the noise put your house up for sale and move!!!!!

-- Posted by Gal66 on Fri, Sep 4, 2009, at 2:01 PM

I'm sure the military is sorry if they inconvenienced anyone with their flight training. Hope you never need them for search and rescue or in case of a catastrophe because the noise might be bothersome.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Fri, Sep 4, 2009, at 1:53 PM

TC: Life is a fatal condition.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Fri, Sep 4, 2009, at 1:53 PM

"I think we can safely conclude it wasn't a major offensive in the genocidal war you claim is about to begin."

The genocidal war began many years ago. Poison is being pumped directly into your food, water and air.. and into your grandbabies veins. It's time for people to deal with that reality.

We're all consumers now..

-- Posted by Third Child on Fri, Sep 4, 2009, at 1:38 PM

TC - I can give an eyewitness report. I did indeed see the helicopter as it flew near my house on the east side of town. Despite my many years spent on military bases, I can't confirm every movement of the helicopter, but since we don't seem to have suddenly acquired large numbers of troops in town, armed or otherwise, I think we can safely conclude it wasn't a major offensive in the genocidal war you claim is about to begin.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Fri, Sep 4, 2009, at 1:23 PM

Third Child,

Far be it from me to call our govt. perfect.

Are you anti-govt or just anti-Obama? Do you really think that our govt. could pull off all the consipracies that Alex Jones alledges? The amount of people who would have to be complicit in such conspiracies is already a red flag to me.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Sep 4, 2009, at 12:56 PM

This would be a good place for an eye witness account of this military industrial "approach" training.

Someone give a report, please.

-- Posted by Third Child on Fri, Sep 4, 2009, at 12:34 PM

Helicopter practice:

www.marshallnews.com/story/1567818.html

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Fri, Sep 4, 2009, at 12:09 PM

You won't read it or you won't retract your earlier statememt? Both?

-- Posted by Third Child on Fri, Sep 4, 2009, at 11:23 AM

TC - no dice.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Fri, Sep 4, 2009, at 11:14 AM

It's not for me. That article is for people that are afraid of the truth, like you, wtf. Maybe it makes you feel better but try to understand that this is a false comfort. Wishing things way doesn't change reality.

-- Posted by Third Child on Fri, Sep 4, 2009, at 10:59 AM

Here Third Child,

This is for you:

http://www.examiner.com/x-3032-Denver-Pr...

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Sep 4, 2009, at 10:12 AM

"there is no **** reason to have an army helicopter flying all over marshall a 8:00 in the evening"

But there *IS* a reason and that is to indoctrinate the "consumers" of what is to come. The military industrial complex shadow government is training the drug stupored masses for martial law.

http://www.infowars.com/resources/martia...

-- Posted by Third Child on Fri, Sep 4, 2009, at 9:47 AM

i want to tell whoever in command at the airport that there is no **** reason to have an army helicopter flying all over marshall a 8:00 in the evening. i was at my grandsons house last wed, and i thought i was back in korea with all the racket and commotion going on above me. not to mention my grand babies were asleep but not after that. i dont know what they are looking for with that big light or why they feel they have to do it in town. i understand drills alright but do they have to do it at night in town. been a long time but i am pretty sure there arent any enemy koreans running around marshall at 8:15. and it can be pretty upsetting to the people trying to have dinner or talk with their families. i support all the troops 100% i am not mad at them but i dont understand why they do this

-- Posted by earlpeters on Fri, Sep 4, 2009, at 9:31 AM

Oklahoma Reader, maybe this will help. If Kathy reads it maybe she will retract her earlier statement.

From: http://www.whale.to/vaccines/polio.html

Excerpt:

The polio death rate was decreasing on its own before the vaccine was introduced, and there is no credible scientific evidence that the vaccine caused polio to disappear. Cases of polio increased after mass inoculations.

The United States Centre for Disease Control (CDC) admitted that the vaccine has become the dominant cause of polio in the US today, with 87% of cases between 1973 and 1983 caused by the vaccine. More recently, 1980-1989, every case of polio in the US was caused by the vaccine. Doctors and scientists on the staff of the National Institute of Health during the 1950's were well aware that the Salk vaccine was ineffective and deadly. Some frankly stated that it was "worthless as a preventative and dangerous to take". The Salk "inactivated" or "killed-virus" was actually regulated to permit 5,000 live viruses per million doses.

In 1956 with the infamous Francis Field Trials they discovered large numbers of children contracted polio after receiving the vaccine. Instead of removing the vaccine from the market, they decided to exclude from the statistics all cases of polio that occurred within 30 days after vaccination on the pretext that such cases were "pre-existing".

In 1958 mass vaccination triggered a disastrous increase in polio, the highest being 700% in Ottawa, Canada. The highest incidence in the USA occurred in those states which had been induced to adopt compulsory polio shots(1).

"Use of either Salk or Sabin vaccine will increase the possibility that your child will contact the disease. It appears that the most effective way to protect your child from polio is to make sure that he doesn't get the vaccine "---Dr Mendelsohn M.D.(1984).

-- Posted by Third Child on Fri, Sep 4, 2009, at 9:30 AM

It's heavy for people to remember though, you need to buy term paper or buy research papers just because a school isn't the matchless at everything doesn't mean it can't be the matchless at certain things. Essays blogs can fit more usefull for your article you can also buy essay. But first of all, my acknowledgment to this article, it has a admirable disposition.

-- Posted by Andrew Lukas on Fri, Sep 4, 2009, at 5:15 AM

Slater,

Another article in today's WSJ that would interest you is on Baseball's chattiest tv announcers. The winner? Dan McLaughlin of the Cardinals! 102.33 words per minute.

Glad to hear you are squared away on a place to stay. Have a great time. Hope the fall color is underway by the time of your visit.

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Thu, Sep 3, 2009, at 11:12 PM

Third Child: I have no interest in debating polio vaccine.

I asked a simple question, and thought that perhaps your research on the issue revealed the answer.

My question remains, do you know of any research that reveals a decline in the incidence of polio prior to the inception of polio vaccine?

If you can't answer the question that is alright. I didn't mean to put you to any trouble. I know you are busy.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Sep 3, 2009, at 11:08 PM

Thanks to all of you, News, Ltlmissme, NB, Upsedaisy for the suggestions. I'm sufficiently armed now! :)

Upsedaisy, no, I didn't ask to be put on the waiting list. When she said they were full I said I'd go sleep in the park.

I don't know if I knew that McQueen had been in the Marines. I actually don't know much about him, except that he was born in Indiana and occasionally stayed with relatives out east of Slater, somewhere off what used to be known as Thhompson Lane.

News, I hadn't heard of Kitty's Corner. The accommondations look very nice in the site photos.

An old friend who lives in Kansas City is offering to be my taxi service, so things should fall into place.

My wife and I are trading animal sitting duties. She's watching them while I'll be gone, and then I'll be watching them in early October while she's gone to Oregon for a visit with her sister.

I was thinking the other night how similar to the poioneers I am, not having a means to get around other than my feet. I saw a report on the news recently about a visually-impaired young woman in Ft. Worth who rides a horse to get where she needs to go.

C'mere Trigger!!

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Sep 3, 2009, at 10:18 PM

Slater,

The McQueen article was interesting. His son pays close attention to licensing arrangements. Considering the designers behind the "line" it must be profitable to McQueen's heirs. I learned something new (to me) from the article: McQueen had been in the Marines.

Sorry to hear there is no room at the (Comfort) Inn. The one in Sedalia has the same ownership. It has a railroad theme which appeals to rail history buffs. Are you wait listed?

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Thu, Sep 3, 2009, at 9:30 PM

Slater,

If Kitty's corner accomodations don't work out, there is a Super 8 Motel on Hwy 65.

-- Posted by nouveaublogger on Thu, Sep 3, 2009, at 9:05 PM

Oliver Homestead B & B is listed in Google.I can not give recommendation as I have never been there nor heard of it before.

-- Posted by litlmissme on Thu, Sep 3, 2009, at 7:57 PM

Yes Slater, that can put limits on choices.

My wife and I may be staying at that bed and breakfast in Arrow Rock when we visit Marshall during our vacation next year. My Mom grew up in Arrow Rock and we just love that town. Its so lovely there in the fall.

May I suggest you try kitty's Corner Bed and Breakfast then. Its within easy walking distance of the square.

http://www.bedandbreakfast.com/missouri-...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Sep 3, 2009, at 6:18 PM

Thanks for the info, News. I'll keep it in mind for future reference. This time I need to be in Marshall, since I'm traveling alone and my failed vision doesn't permit me to drive any longer.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Sep 3, 2009, at 5:57 PM

I think you are still misreading what was posted. Klenner was talking specifically about the polio vaccines made from diseased monkey kidneys that a lot of us were vaccinated with. SV40 .. Look it up.. your study had nothing to do with that.

I agree with Klenner,.. and Pauling, and others on viatmin C. I think I'll take some now..

"Many here voice a silent view that the Salk and Sabin polio vaccine, being made of monkey kidney tissue has been directly responsible for the major increase in leukaemia in this country." Dr F. Klenner, Polio Researcher, USA

Influenza vaccination and Guillain Barre syndrome

http://thinktwice.com/Images/gsb.pdf

ThinkTwice Global Vaccine Institute.

http://thinktwice.com/

We offer an extensive selection of uncensored information on childhood shots and other immunizations.

Because this is such an important topic, we believe that parents are entitled to a full disclosure of all pertinent data and the freedom to choose whether or not to vaccinate their children.

-- Posted by Third Child on Thu, Sep 3, 2009, at 5:54 PM

Slater,

You may want to consider Arrow Rock Station in Arrow Rock. http://www.virtualcities.com/dining/mo/a...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Sep 3, 2009, at 5:44 PM

Since the award-winning Comfort Inn is full the weekend of 9/26, does anyone have a suggestion for an alternative?

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Sep 3, 2009, at 5:20 PM

Thanks for the note, Upsedaisy. Do you suppose the self-appointed McQueen historian, Slater Mayor Steven Allegri, has insider information about this? :)

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Sep 3, 2009, at 5:00 PM

Third Child: Dr. F. Klenner also claims to have successfully treated polio victims with Vitamin C. He claimed to have cured 60 out of 60 cases of polio this way. If it worked, don't you think it would have been adopted? His research was done in the period when polio was prevelant. He is known for saying, "The patient should "get large doses of vitamin C in all pathological conditions while the physician ponders the diagnosis."

Doesn't sound like much in the way of treatment going on there.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Thu, Sep 3, 2009, at 4:48 PM

No association between childhood vaccines and leukemia, American Academy of Pediatrics, 2006:

http://aapgrandrounds.aappublications.or...

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Thu, Sep 3, 2009, at 4:40 PM

Better format, same poor reasoning. Changes nothing.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Thu, Sep 3, 2009, at 4:07 PM

Sabin didn't make that statement, Kathy. He made the one above it. Sorry for the sloppy formatting. This is better?

"Official data have shown that the large-scale vaccinations undertaken in the US have failed to obtain any significant improvement of the diseases against which they were supposed to provide protection." Dr A. Sabin, developer of the Oral Polio vaccine (lecture to Italian doctors in Piacenza, Italy, Decemebr 7th 1985)

"Vaccination is a monstrosity, a misbegotten offspring of error and ignorance, it should have no place in either hygiene or medicine...Believe not in vaccination, it is a world-wide delusion, an unscientific practise, a fatal superstition with consequences measured today by tears and sorrow without end." Professor Chas Rauta, University of Perguia, Italy , (New York Medical Journal July 1899)

"Many here voice a silent view that the Salk and Sabin polio vaccine, being made of monkey kidney tissue has been directly responsible for the major increase in leukaemia in this country." Dr F. Klenner, Polio Researcher, USA

HISTORICAL FACTS EXPOSING THE DANGERS AND INEFFECTIVENESS OF VACCINES

http://vaccinationdebate.com/web2.html

http://vaclib.org/

-- Posted by Third Child on Thu, Sep 3, 2009, at 4:01 PM

Fans of Steve McQueen, may be interested in an article published in today's Wall Street Journal. (Th 3 Sep 09). Top left photo of McQueen on front page directs readers to section D1.

The "king of cool" now has his own line of clothing. "Fashion Channels the Steve McQueen Mojo." His son Chad is quoted on what his father's reaction might be.

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Thu, Sep 3, 2009, at 3:50 PM

Of course, Sabin would say vaccination is a monstrosity - he developed the oral vaccine, which is no longer in wide use.

Some stats about polio: in 1916, there were 27,000 cases of polio in the U.S., with 6,000 deaths, of which 2,000 were in New York City alone.

In 1952, there were 60,000 cases in the U.S., with 3,000 deaths.

After the Salk, and later the Sabin oral vaccine were introduced, polio virtually disappeared in the U.S.

In 1988, there were 355,000 cases of polio in 125 countries worldwide by 2004, there were a mere 1,255 in only six countries.

Whether an individual thinks vaccination of school children is a good idea or not, or wishes to take advantage of the religious and/or medical exemptions offered by most states, including Missouri, it can hardly be argued by anyone of any level of intelligence that the introduction of the polio vaccine was not a positive force around the world.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Thu, Sep 3, 2009, at 3:44 PM

Getting a vaccination is like taking an aspirin. There are risks to both drugs. Both require a cost/benefit analysis by both the provider and the recipient. Like other medical treatments, though, you ought to be free to refuse consent and take your chances.

-- Posted by AF Brat on Thu, Sep 3, 2009, at 3:30 PM

"Official data have shown that the large-scale vaccinations undertaken in the US have failed to obtain any significant improvement of the diseases against which they were supposed to provide protection."

Dr A. Sabin, developer of the Oral Polio vaccine (lecture to Italian doctors in Piacenza, Italy, Decemebr 7th 1985)

"Vaccination is a monstrosity, a misbegotten offspring of error and ignorance, it should have no place in either hygiene or medicine...Believe not in vaccination, it is a world-wide delusion, an unscientific practise, a fatal superstition with consequences measured today by tears and sorrow without end."

Professor Chas Rauta, University of Perguia, Italy , (New York Medical Journal July 1899)

"Many here voice a silent view that the Salk and Sabin polio vaccine, being made of monkey kidney tissue has been directly responsible for the major increase in leukaemia in this country."

Dr F. Klenner, Polio Researcher, USA

http://vaccinationdebate.com/web3.html

-- Posted by Third Child on Thu, Sep 3, 2009, at 1:42 PM

For a very complete story of the history and development of the polio vaccine, I can recommend "Polio: An American Story"

by David M. Oshinsky.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Thu, Sep 3, 2009, at 1:18 PM

Maryland Gov Says Taking Toxic Vaccination is "Patriotic Duty"

http://www.infowars.com/maryland-gov-say...

Excerpt:

In fact, children who get the flu vaccine are more at risk for hospitalization than children who do not get the vaccine, according to the American Thoracic Society's International Conference, held May 15-20, 2009, in San Diego.

There is evidence flu shots actually spread influenza. "Not only does the shot manipulate the immune system, it contains foreign microorganisms that can easily replicate in the body. It is ridiculous for the CDC to say that none of these germs are contagious. There are many well-respected health experts who believe that the number of people coming down with the flu would be drastically reduced if flu shots weren't administered. One of the best ways to avoid the flu is to stay away from people who have it. This includes staying away from those who have recently received a flu shot," writes Greg Ciola.

Both the CDC and the Department of Homeland Security take orders from the United Nations. The UN's Biodiversity Assessment on Sustainable Human Population calls for a massive reduction in world population.

-- Posted by Third Child on Thu, Sep 3, 2009, at 1:01 PM

So we get a story about Marshall teachers and the law suit against the school district.How about a story of a Marshall doctor's law suit against the City of Marshall????

-- Posted by yomomma on Thu, Sep 3, 2009, at 12:43 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Got a case number? I checked casenet when you brought this up recently and could find no such suit. There's a suit by a local doctor against the state depart of revenue, and there are lawsuits against the city of Marshall of various sorts, but none appear to be initiated by the person you named.

Any news on the wreck in front of the high school this morning? It looked bad.

-- Posted by momaster on Thu, Sep 3, 2009, at 12:36 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
No, but we'll check into it.

If you want to debate polio vaccine please do a search on SV40 polio vaccinations and it's implications for cancer in million of baby boomers today. Maybe that's why Marshall needs a new cancer unit that's paid for by those same baby boomers..

-- Posted by Third Child on Thu, Sep 3, 2009, at 12:13 PM

Third Child: I checked the link you provided on the vaccination debate.

In regard to polio would you give vaccination further consideration? The link showed mortality rates declining for polio at the time that vaccination was introduced. The graph indicated nothing about infection rates at the time.

When I grew up polio was rampant, most survived, but many were left with debilitating problems that were tragic. Further, there has been a demonstrated post polio return of symptoms for many of the original victims, some of whom were thought to have made a full recovery.

Are you aware of statistics that demonstrate a decline in incidence of the illness that parallels the decline in mortality? If there are none the decline in mortality was likely due to advances in care, as opposed to natural increase in immunity.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Sep 3, 2009, at 11:56 AM

"Scientific medicine has taken credit it does not deserve for some advances in health. Most people believe that victory over the infectious diseases of the last century came with the invention of immunisations. In fact, cholera, typhoid, tetanus, diphtheria and whooping cough, etc, were in decline before vaccines for them became available - the result of better methods of sanitation, sewage disposal, and distribution of food and water." Dr Andrew Weil

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andrew-wei...

Disease Mongering: Good for Big Pharma, Bad for You

-- Posted by Third Child on Thu, Sep 3, 2009, at 11:19 AM

"People of good conscience may disagree on some of the facets of this topic, but the fact is that most of the diseases that killed or crippled children just a generation or two ago are largely a thing of the past, due to the creation of vaccines to prevent them."

People of good conscience and and backed with scientific statistical data disagree with your conclusion, Kathy.

From the link I provided:

GRAPHICAL EVIDENCE SHOWS VACCINES DIDN'T SAVE US

http://vaccinationdebate.com/web1.html

-- Posted by Third Child on Thu, Sep 3, 2009, at 10:51 AM

Vaccinations are important for the health of children and adults everywhere:

http://kidshealth.org/parent/general/bod...

People of good conscience may disagree on some of the facets of this topic, but the fact is that most of the diseases that killed or crippled children just a generation or two ago are largely a thing of the past, due to the creation of vaccines to prevent them.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Thu, Sep 3, 2009, at 10:42 AM

Third Child,

How do you feel about vaccinations?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Sep 3, 2009, at 10:35 AM

Vaccinations

Just by reading the papers and watching the news on TV a person would never know that there is actually a debate on the dangers and effectiveness of vaccines. For people that truly care about the health of their children, I say turn off the TV and the hyped hysteria news and do an hour or two of research to find out what is really going on.

People survive this hyped up flu if they aren't sick already. 'News across' and his wife didn't die of the flu and now they have a natural immunity.

There is a a lot that can go wrong in taking the flu shots and the newspapers and TV news aren't telling you about it. The damage of the shots is for a lifetime. Parents need to educate themselves and they better do it fast. Please stop being so gullible and complacent when it comes to your children's health!

Here is one place to start:

http://vaccinationdebate.com/index.htm

GRAPHICAL EVIDENCE SHOWS VACCINES DIDN'T SAVE US

HISTORICAL FACTS EXPOSING THE DANGERS AND INEFFECTIVENESS OF VACCINES

DOCTORS AND SCIENTISTS CONDEMN VACCINATION

WHY VACCINES ARE INEFFECTIVE

WHY VACCINES ARE HARMFUL

WHY VACCINATION CONTINUES

THE BENEFICIAL NATURE OF CHILDHOOD INFECTION

HEALTH - THE ONLY IMMUNITY

THE HOPEWOOD CHILDREN - AUSTRALIA'S HEALTHIEST KIDS

-- Posted by Third Child on Thu, Sep 3, 2009, at 9:44 AM

Thanks litlmissme! The letter posted by Marshall Public Schools is here:

http://marshallschools.com/h1n1info.pdf

and includes precautions the district is taking.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Thu, Sep 3, 2009, at 7:07 AM

Looks like I need to go back to school to learn how to spell Marshall!

-- Posted by litlmissme on Thu, Sep 3, 2009, at 5:50 AM

One more thing Third Child,

This is a prvate blog and news paper. It is not a govt. entity. The right of free speech only goes as far as they see fit.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Sep 3, 2009, at 5:44 AM

Last night there was a note sent home from Mrshall Public schools that says to go to their website for updated information on the H1N1 virus.

They will keep an up to date posting of all pertinent information available.

-- Posted by litlmissme on Thu, Sep 3, 2009, at 5:36 AM

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously. So said Hubert H. Humphrey

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Wed, Sep 2, 2009, at 11:28 PM

How long do we have to listen to these wild empty opinions regarding Republicans before some anonymous poster asks that 'news' be stopped from posting what we're tired of hearing?

-- Posted by Third Child on Wed, Sep 2, 2009, at 11:25 PM

"FL GOP: Obama's speech to schoolkids 'socialist indoctrination'"

http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/09/02/o...

How long do we have to listen to wild, outrageous Republican statements before we finally realize the Republicans are living in Bizzaro World?

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Sep 2, 2009, at 10:43 PM

That's not so, anonymous poster 'news'. I posted a lot of links to proven scientific evidence that the fluoride compounds added to public water supplies are worthless as health enhancers and in fact are detrimental to health on many levels.

You never debated any of it and instead just argued that you didn't want to hear it.

-- Posted by Third Child on Wed, Sep 2, 2009, at 10:36 PM

Tori,

As I said, I just want to verify information about this situation before making it public. That's all.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Wed, Sep 2, 2009, at 10:36 PM

Third Child,

Everyone of your "facts" are in fact the empty opinions of extremist bloggers with no more expertise in the matter of fluoride chemistry than you or me.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Sep 2, 2009, at 10:29 PM

Tori, perhaps you missed the information about the MIAC report where police and others in crime business are told to suspect people that have political bumper stickers, or talk about the constitution, or the Bible, or home schoolers and such of being possible homegrown terrorist..

Just about everyone qualifies. Surely you do too if you think you still live in a free country..

It is a sad day..

-- Posted by Third Child on Wed, Sep 2, 2009, at 10:29 PM

The reason I posted information on fluoride is that I mistakenly thought that fluoride would be one issue that people could wrap their minds around and see that they have been lied to for years. I was just giving facts.

Not one person was willing to refute the facts. Kathy couldn't argue any facts but could not back down her position that fluoride is good and therefore the subject had to be censored.

-- Posted by Third Child on Wed, Sep 2, 2009, at 10:05 PM

Kathy, how do you know who is on a watch list or not?

-- Posted by Third Child on Wed, Sep 2, 2009, at 9:52 PM

Would Oliver Wendell Holmes believe the right to inject another person with a needle full of toxins end in a likewise manner? I sure do.

-- Posted by Third Child on Wed, Sep 2, 2009, at 9:50 PM

Tori: No one has placed you on a watch list. Third Child has his nose out of joint because we asked him to please stop posting about the "dangers" of fluoride, which subject he has thoroughly exhausted, along with the patience of other posters who requested we do so.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Sep 2, 2009, at 9:49 PM

Third Child, I'm just an old farm woman. If they placed me on a watch list, it's a sad world indeed.

I'm about as threatening as a flea on a turnip.

Where's this 'hat full of air' person's post you mentioned?

-- Posted by Tori on Wed, Sep 2, 2009, at 9:42 PM

Well let's see if I can post something that isn't as controversial as H1N1.

I don't see how you town folks live where it's so noisy. We live in the country but have a house in town too and had to stay there most of last week so our grandkids could attend school. We were babysitting while their parents were on a trip.

First thing one morning when I was sitting outside with my cup of coffee enjoying the quiet of the sunrise, treecutters showed up and started trimming some trees in the neighbor's yard.

Then here came the garbage truck, street cleaner, and a semi down the street. In that order. Where the semi was headed, I don't know. It's a narrow, residential street. He was probably lost.

Other neighbor started mowing about 10 a.m. just when things were starting to quiet down.

When night fell we could hear engine or machinery whining. Fellow next door said it was Con Agra. When the wind is just right the sound carries across town. I thought it was a wayward siren at first. That was still being heard at midnight.

Next day some landscapers came along and trimmed another neighbor's bushes and used the weedeater. All. Morning. Long. With, I guess, electric trimmers and a gas powered weeder. That slight, thin young man needs to use old fashioned tools and develop himself some muscles. He'll feel healthier too.

I'm so glad to be back in the country hearing nothing tonight but the tree frogs and an owl. Sure farm machinery makes some noise but nothing like it was when we stayed in town all week.

-- Posted by Tori on Wed, Sep 2, 2009, at 9:39 PM

Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. once said, "The right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins."

We have a civil right to our individual freedom and liberty only to the point where the physical health of the mass of the population is directly threatened by the individual...such as a patient with a highly contagious and life threatening disease. At that point society has the right to quarantine the individual.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Sep 2, 2009, at 9:35 PM

"Now I know the chilling way a person in a communist country feels when they can't get their message out."

That's where we're going, Tori. It's the old Soviet model of suppression we're descending into. Welcome to the new world order.. Now you're sure to be placed on a domestic terrorist watch list because you mistakenly believed you were free.

Also, be put on notice that you aren't allowed to post any information about the health effects of fluoride. Fluoride is strictly off limits because an anonymous poster that goes by the moniker 'hat full of air' pops up and says so..

-- Posted by Third Child on Wed, Sep 2, 2009, at 9:30 PM

Well, darn. Would lead to some good discussion. Maybe even better than health care or fluoride.

Now I know the chilling way a person in a communist country feels when they can't get their message out.

-- Posted by Tori on Wed, Sep 2, 2009, at 9:11 PM

What can be posted about the flu situation? What are the guidelines? I don't see why my two posts were a problem. Can you please explain?

-- Posted by Tori on Wed, Sep 2, 2009, at 8:41 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Yes. We'll get information directly from school officials in the morning. Hearsay might be factual, but if it's not, it could do more damage than good. I just want to be sure. Yes, I'm playing it safe.

We'll check tomorrow with all school districts in the county and with the health department and find out about the flu situation.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Wed, Sep 2, 2009, at 8:19 PM

From the KMMO website - Malta Bend schools are closed until Tuesday because of 25% of the students and staff out with illness. H1N1? They don't say.

Spoke with a teacher in the Slater school district. Earlier in the week letters were sent home with students saying there was a possible case of H1N1. This was also reported on the KMMO website.

Today another letter went out. It's only hearsay as the person I spoke with hasn't seen the letter yet (because she's home sick too!) but rumor has it that there are three to five confirmed cases so far with about 1/4 of the student body out with sickness.

Any word on Marshall schools from someone in the know?

-- Posted by Tori on Wed, Sep 2, 2009, at 7:47 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Apparently there are Slater students being tested for H1N1, but results are not yet available. None in any other school district, according to school officials.

More teacher salary info:

http://dese.mo.gov/schooldata/profile/p6...

http://dese.mo.gov/schooldata/profile/p6...

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Wed, Sep 2, 2009, at 7:14 PM

Marshall Man: You can get some of the information you want regarding teacher salaries here:

http://www.msta.org/salary/

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Sep 2, 2009, at 6:44 PM

It's no secret that quarantines, if needed, can be either forced or voluntary. It says so on the CDC Web site. That strikes me as a public safety issue - maybe you've got the virus and no else in town does. I'd like to think you'd be smart enough to do anything in your power to keep from spreading it, but if you won't do that on your own, then I do not have a problem with someone restraining you until you're fit to be in public again. The CDC also says you cannot be restrained any longer than the infectious period of the virus, which, I think, wouldn't be long.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Sep 2, 2009, at 6:13 PM

CDC H1N1 forced quarantine documents

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/cdc-h1n...

Maybe MDN could post a copy of the recently filed H1N1 plan for Saline county?

-- Posted by Third Child on Wed, Sep 2, 2009, at 5:05 PM

Healthcare opponent punches 65-year-old supporter:

http://rawstory.com/blog/2009/09/healthc...

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Sep 2, 2009, at 4:53 PM

With all this talk on a school bond and such something I'd like to see that hasn't been published in maybe 15 years is a listing of our school administration and yearly salaries. If this is public record as I think it is this would be good info for us Tax Payers. Is this something our Daily-D could run?

-- Posted by Marshall Man on Wed, Sep 2, 2009, at 4:48 PM

Levi: "Palin wanted to cover up her daughter's pregnancy":

http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/09/02/l...

Levi Johnston: "Lot of divorce talk in Palin home"

He says "she neglected parenting and governorship duties in favor of money":

with video

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32658521/ns/...

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Sep 2, 2009, at 4:25 PM

Hope someone didn't have a heartattack.

-- Posted by ieatsuperglue on Wed, Sep 2, 2009, at 3:47 PM

On my way to work last night around 8:00 p.m. I met an ambulance, with light and sirens, heading up 240 near Weber seeds, and no cop around. Was there a wreck, or what happened?

-- Posted by ieatsuperglue on Wed, Sep 2, 2009, at 2:24 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
No injury accidents reported by the highway patrol.

'Thousands' of Americans migrating to Mexico for health care:

http://rawstory.com/blog/2009/09/america...

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Sep 1, 2009, at 7:33 PM

"5 Myths About Health Care Around the World"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Sep 1, 2009, at 3:12 PM

Manufacturing, home sales show growth signs:

Survey on factory orders adds to evidence that recession is ending.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32641756/ns/...

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Sep 1, 2009, at 2:57 PM

Hey, I'm just askin'

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Sep 1, 2009, at 12:28 PM

Specially with you

-- Posted by Third Child on Tue, Sep 1, 2009, at 9:51 AM

Disappointed..

with you

-- Posted by Third Child on Tue, Sep 1, 2009, at 9:50 AM

I'm not angry. I'm dissapointed.

Especialy with you

-- Posted by Third Child on Tue, Sep 1, 2009, at 9:48 AM

Third Child,

Do you think you could direct any of that anger towards war criminals and torturers?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Sep 1, 2009, at 8:48 AM

"President Obama has abandoned his commitment on yet another front. He has nominated a pro mining figure as his top dog on surface mining regulation."

Forget that Obama can't or won't produce an original birth certificate proving that he is even elgible to be president, so much for the 'transparent' presidency. Obama should be impeached for false advertising and fraud for all the broken promises to millions of mistaken believers in hope and change.

Obama, the neocon's darling war president, appointed the man that brought you Monsanto's genetically engineered bovine growth hormone as America's Food Safety "Czar"

http://blacklistednews.com/news-4963-0-6...

Obama's family eats organic, non GMO food and I'll bet that they aren't drinking fluoridated tap water either. But that's good enough for the believers that had hope for change, isn't it? Get used to it and get in line for the vaccines that will further debilitate your health for years down the road.

http://vaccinationdebate.com/index.htm

America has been duped again and we are so brain damaged from the vicious chemical attack we have been under for decades that it doesn't even register..

-- Posted by Third Child on Tue, Sep 1, 2009, at 8:43 AM

Look at the bright side Slater.

All those little kids from San Antonio can finally go home, and hopefully resume a normal kid's life.

Since last March its been nothing but baseball. They have traveled more than a bunch of Gypsies on the lam, and may have played almost as many games as are on a major league schedule. :)

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Sep 1, 2009, at 12:23 AM

I just finished rolling up the streets around the neighborhood, and I'm checking out.

Good night, all you hootowls.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Sep 1, 2009, at 12:19 AM

All the joy disappeared from Mudville on Saturday when the San Antonio little leaguers lost to California in the semi's.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Sep 1, 2009, at 12:14 AM

Evenin' OKR,

The current egocentrism in place around the White House sure makes it tough for outsiders to have their suggestions considered.

Punked is not the word I have in mind for what Obama & Co. appears to be doing to all of us.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Sep 1, 2009, at 12:05 AM

Finally a bit of satirical humor. http://pavlovianobeisance.com/cancel_med...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Sep 1, 2009, at 12:04 AM

Evenin Slater. Amen to that.

However, here is a commentary by the right Robert (Reich, not Rubin) voicing his opinion on how we may still "get her done" in regard to health care.

It is some wee comfort to know that some one as decent, and brilliant as Reich thinks we still have a chance.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Aug 31, 2009, at 11:56 PM

Obama is rapidly pacing himself to be as big a flop as that stupid movie, Evan Almighty.

The Democratic Party, if it wasn't already so two-faced, would be wise to divorce the president.

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Aug 31, 2009, at 11:41 PM

OKR, if rational-thinking Americans would take this issue to heart and learn what is really needed, I would expect a fair number of new students in the Congressional Clown College, along with an equally fair number of vacancies to be filled at the insurance companies.

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Aug 31, 2009, at 11:25 PM

President Obama has abandoned his commitment on yet another front.

He has nominated a pro mining figure as his top dog on surface mining regulation. This means that the knocking off of the tops of mountains in West Virginia,and dumping them in the creeks below will continue.

He is dangerously close to assuring that he will be a one term president. It is political suicide for a politician to abandon his base. If there is not a rapid about face he will definitely be confronted with a challenge from the left in 2012. Someone will step up and truly answer the ignored challenges.

http://www.peer.org/news/news_id.php?row...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Aug 31, 2009, at 11:22 PM

Ralph Nader on single payer health care, medical fraud, fact versus falsehood, etc.

http://dandelionsalad.wordpress.com/2009...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Aug 31, 2009, at 10:53 PM

client has turned himself in at the switch at the hab center.

-- Posted by buttercupp on Mon, Aug 31, 2009, at 8:05 PM

The Hab Center client has been found. He went back to the center on his own after outsmarting the authorities all day I guess he had enough fun.

-- Posted by Cheese on Mon, Aug 31, 2009, at 8:02 PM

The client from the hab center has been on the run since a little after 8 AM this morning. The mpd has been looking for him all day.

-- Posted by buttercupp on Mon, Aug 31, 2009, at 4:49 PM
Response by Geoff Rands/Staff writer:
www.marshallnews.com/story/1566468.html

Billionaires for WealthCare mocks healthcare protesters in California

includes video

http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/08/31/b...

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Aug 31, 2009, at 4:14 PM

Has anyone heard that a client from the Hab Center is on the run? Allegedly he is out of the building with the more criminal minded clients.

-- Posted by Bambi on Mon, Aug 31, 2009, at 3:35 PM

VA won't pay benefits to Marine whose injuries came from vaccine

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/washington/st...

-- Posted by Third Child on Mon, Aug 31, 2009, at 9:39 AM

It's not surprizing to see the New York Times spinning lies and disinformation about bailed out banksters paying profits to the taxpayers that are being robbed..

Closer to the truth:

U.S. Farm Profit Plunging on Lower Crop, Dairy Prices

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=2...

Recession Finally Hits Down on the Farm

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB12513843...

U.S. Farmers See Their Income Plunge 38% As Recession Grips Agriculture

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/28...

-- Posted by Third Child on Mon, Aug 31, 2009, at 9:28 AM

U.S. sees profit as banks repay bailout

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32623489/ns/...

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Aug 31, 2009, at 6:14 AM

Oklahoma Reader, hey, thanks for the clip. I really enjoyed it and Willie Nelson has always been a favorite. Several former Blue Angels were in Pan Am while I was there. We shared the cockpit now and then. It's been so long ago and my memory isn't what it used to be so I'll now have to dig out my log books to refresh and re-hash. My former wife was also with Pan Am as Flt. Attendant then as Flt Attendant Trainer and finally into upper management so I'll ask her to help me recall names.

While flying all over the world was quite an education and experience, I really don't miss it. And certainly not with the security problems of today. One of the reasons I retired early was all the hassle that even we pilots had to endure. Thanks for the memory jog. WT

-- Posted by White Tornado on Sun, Aug 30, 2009, at 11:14 PM

Wonderjim: Good post. I read Sirota regularly. To me he seems to be on top of a lot of things.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Aug 30, 2009, at 10:50 PM

Something to ponder. Would anyone else agree that the healthcare system and our military share a common goal? That goal is to maintain the health, wellbeing and quality of life of the American people? One protects from attack while the protects from illness. Both of them protect us from death.

If so, how would you feel if the military only protected a certain percentage of our population? Would you stand for it?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Aug 30, 2009, at 8:23 PM

Any news on Rissa?

-- Posted by ieatsuperglue on Sun, Aug 30, 2009, at 1:47 PM

Here ya go - recognition of your new aero exhibit:

http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/2009...

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Aug 30, 2009, at 1:19 PM

Ohhh, okay. Well, I should endeavor to stay awake while reading.

Everyone good in the ND household, I trust. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Aug 30, 2009, at 1:08 PM

ND, was that Nat Turner speaking?

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Aug 29, 2009, at 11:25 PM

GOP accused of health reform 'fear-mongering'

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32605508/ns/...

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Aug 29, 2009, at 4:15 PM

Yep WTF,

The Republican Party continually reminds us of their core value...racism...with their own words. Its no wonder they keep losing seats in Congress...and rightly so.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Aug 29, 2009, at 4:09 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0M9mzejKh...

Baseball: Drinking with Bob..

http://drinkingwithbob.com/index.html

-- Posted by Third Child on Sat, Aug 29, 2009, at 2:57 PM

Thank you third child,

You have just proven my point.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Aug 29, 2009, at 1:46 PM

By now the word about MU's former quarterback prospect, Blaine Dalton, has spread, and I expect a few passing remarks have been made.

Here's how I sum up his short-lived career:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpOlaLTXP...

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Aug 29, 2009, at 12:40 PM

http://drinkingwithbob.com/rants.html

Cash for clunkers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l8hFvHnd...

-- Posted by Third Child on Sat, Aug 29, 2009, at 11:02 AM

News Across,

Thanks for the link.

It seems like that's where we are at now. Comments like "buying Obama hunting tags" or that he was running as the "great white hope".

People feeling the need to carry guns to town hall meetings and stating that they are "proud right wing terrorists". I don't want to get started on all the e-mails flying around about "proof" that Obama is the anti-christ.

People give me a break. Stop. Think for yourself for at least a minute. Better yet, maybe folks should take a good look at themselves before fowarding one of those e-mails and think about what is truly motivating them to do what they do and say what they say.

What does it say about a democracy when people absolutely can't handle the fact that thier side lost an election?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Aug 29, 2009, at 8:00 AM

Idaho GOP blasts candidate's Obama remark

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32601868/ns/...

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Aug 29, 2009, at 6:17 AM

Hey, you hootowls!

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Aug 28, 2009, at 10:07 PM

As long as we are posting links, here is an interesting one. It's about the RNC Healthcare survey that is worded to completely scare the bejesus out of anyone who can't see through the BS. Naturally at the end of the survey they ask for a donation.

Can anyone tell me specifically what the GOP plans would be for healthcare reform other than just saying "no" to anything and everything.

http://onespot.wsj.com/politics/2009/08/...

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Aug 28, 2009, at 1:54 PM

White Tornado: You may have seen this, but if not you may enjoy it. It is a song written, and performed by that pot smokin, outspoken, old leftie Willie Nelson. He states that it is a tribute to the Blue Angels. It incorporates great video of the Blue Angels.

Thank you for your service. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7lWZEdb_...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Aug 28, 2009, at 1:48 PM

As a very wise man said many, many years ago, judge not by the color of the skin, but by the content of character. Seems as though these very profound words have become lost in todays world of "politics as usual." Even sadder is that both major political parties have engaged in the same practice of "race-baiting." It was wrong then and its wrong now!

-- Posted by OldOwl on Fri, Aug 28, 2009, at 11:16 AM

Third Child,

Here is the problem I have with your post.

1.) The Washington Posts article is titled:

"Why Obamamania? Because He Runs as The Great White Hope."

2.)This title suggests that Obama himself "runs" as the great white hope and that it is a deliberate effort or was part of his platform.

The title misleading at best.

Here is that only passage from the article that mentions the "great white hope"

"The Obama phenomenon, then, stems not from what he has done but who he is. As the social critic John McWhorter has written, "What gives people a jolt in their gut about the idea of President Obama is the idea that it would be a ringing symbol that racism no longer rules our land." He is the great white hope."

So that title was given by a social critic of all people. Let's just be clear that it was not President Obama who claimed to be the "great white hope".

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Aug 28, 2009, at 10:43 AM

"Why Obamamania? Because He Runs as The Great White Hope." January 13, 2008

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...

-- Posted by Third Child on Fri, Aug 28, 2009, at 8:37 AM

Yes Oklahoma,

...its a lot like the Congresswoman addressing a group of African Americans and referring to them with a well known and highly offensive word which most of us are familiar with... and then saying, "no offense intended"...as if that makes it OK. But racism...the root of the Republican Congresswoman's choice of words and sentiment...is never OK. This incident and many others truly indicates just how out of touch with American values the Republicans are.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 28, 2009, at 4:58 AM

News Across: Kansas Republican U. S. Representative Lynn Jenkins has now apologized for her remark last week, "Republicans are struggling right now to find "the great white hope". At the time she followed by naming three white male Representatives as potentially being that hope.

She told a Kansas newspaper "I was unaware of any negative connotation, and if I offended anybody, obviously I apologize".

Now with her apology she has offended me. Why? It is because I find stupidity that colossal in a member of congress offensive. There is but one connotation to "great white hope", that being a hope of white people that a certain white contender may be able to defeat a non white office holder or champion. The phrase "great white hope" was most famously applied to white boxing contenders, that racists hoped could defeat a black champion.

Then again it is not unusual for Republican racists to slip up in public, and say the things that they say in their normal white only private conversations.

I could be too hard on them though. It may be that they just do not know how to react to or reference black people anymore. When hardly one in a hundred Republicans are black they just don't have that much exposure.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/arti...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Aug 28, 2009, at 1:13 AM

Shaken Baby Syndrome

The vaccination link..

http://www.whale.to/vaccines/sbs.html

People are rotting in jail because of bad vaccination reactions in their children.

http://www.thenhf.com/vaccinations_18.ht...

"Simmerman spent some time talking about shaken baby syndrome, Munchausen by proxy and sudden infant death."

http://www.marshallnews.com/story/156483...

"He stated that, for all intents and purposes, "retinal hemorrhage in infants is ... conclusive evidence of shaken baby syndrome, in the absence of a good explanation."

The only "good explanations" for retinal hemorrhaging are other incidents where an infant's head would be thrown about, such as a severe auto accident or a fall from great height onto a hard surface. In both cases, he said, there will be other evidence as to what happened, such as a damaged vehicle or other injuries to the child."

-- Posted by Third Child on Fri, Aug 28, 2009, at 12:04 AM

Ok Third Child,

Let's look at the real problem. Hysteria.

It's hysteria that caused the state to even consider the law in the first place which by the way is not yet a law. The fines and jail you mentioned were what may be levied on an individual who is in need of quarntine and does not comply. I didn't see anything about fines and jail for refusing a vaccination. I'm not saying I agree with it. How do you feel about mandatory drug testing or treating those who smoke as thier own little piggy bank?

These days everyone gets Hysterical about everything when the 24 hour media beats in into the ground and the next thing you know here we are.

Y2K, Swine Flu, 9/11 , Terrorist Threats, Public Option Healthcare, Socialism, Mad Cow disease etc.

Maybe we all need to step back, take a breath and use a little more common sense.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Aug 27, 2009, at 9:22 PM

Re: MDN Obits

I'm very grateful for the outstanding job MDN is doing with the obits. A couple of years ago they posted only brief death/burial notices which are frustrating to dedicated family history researchers. Obits often provide valuable clues for further research.

I have been using MDN obits for over 25 years both through subscription and from the Marshall PL vertical files.

All the Best

Craig Hubbard

-- Posted by ceh_meh@verizon.net on Thu, Aug 27, 2009, at 8:44 PM

Thanks Eric. Looks like it is fixed.

-- Posted by Scarpetta on Thu, Aug 27, 2009, at 7:36 PM

"Pentagon caught lying about profiling journalists":

http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?secti...

http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/08/27/p...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Aug 27, 2009, at 6:10 PM

Updated with video: GOP Rep. uses blatantly racist phrase:

http://rawstory.com/blog/2009/08/gop-gre...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Aug 27, 2009, at 5:59 PM

$1000 Per Day Fine And 30 Days In Jail For Refusing The Swine Flu Vaccine In Massachusetts

If you have not realized it yet, the controversy over swine flu vaccinations is about to get very, very real. The authorities know that a lot of people are extremely concerned about the safety of the swine flu vaccine, and they are putting the infrastructure in place to deal with those dissenters.

http://thebirdflupandemic.com/archives/1...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_oD55WvD...

-- Posted by Third Child on Thu, Aug 27, 2009, at 5:49 PM

Would it be possible when posting obituaries and death notices to update/replace initial death notices with the final copy of the obit? I've noticed that everyone seems to have at least two copies or versions, and some have three (maybe more) very similar or identical listings. I don't have issue with a one or two line death notice today and a full-blown obit tomorrow, but when the same info is repeated multiple times, it becomes confusing.

I used to live in Marshall and have started watching the obits to see if any of the people I knew back then have passed away.

-- Posted by TerryM on Thu, Aug 27, 2009, at 5:45 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Will do.

"RNC chairman snaps at NPR reporter's tough question:"

http://rawstory.com/blog/2009/08/rnc-cha...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Aug 27, 2009, at 4:54 PM

"McCain evicts yelling woman from town hall":

"'You're going to have to stop or you're going to have to leave,' senator says":

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32577833/ns/...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Aug 27, 2009, at 4:50 PM

How do I set this crazy thing up to display comments newest to oldest? It was that way until the face lift.

-- Posted by Scarpetta on Thu, Aug 27, 2009, at 3:42 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Yesterday we switched to a new version of our website management software and we're still working out a few kinks. I'll see if we can get this one fixed.

Corrected link for MDN Flu article:

http://www.marshallnews.com/story/156517...

-- Posted by Third Child on Thu, Aug 27, 2009, at 2:19 PM

"Novel" Flu Virus

Russ Donnell:

"It is not mandatory," he said. "We are not going to line people up and make them take this shot."

But, there ARE plans and legislation that spells out forced vaccinations and quarantines to be carried out by military forces. Obama could order it done tommorow and Mr. Donnell's assigned job would be to follow those orders.

Assurances from Mr. Donnell that this can't happen aren't all that assuring.

Were these plans discussed at the meeting?

http://www.marshallnews.com/scripts/user...

-- Posted by Third Child on Thu, Aug 27, 2009, at 2:03 PM

I heard it too. I heard that he had escaped from either deputies or police officers and that he had a gun. Wonder if they ever found him?

Response by Geoff Rands/Staff writer:

I just spoke with Jacqueline Lapine, chief public information officer at the Missouri Department of Corrections, and she said all prisoners at the Boonville Corrections Center have been accounted for.

-- Posted by luvthoseowls on Thu, Aug 27, 2009, at 8:49 AM
Response by Geoff Rands/Staff writer:
According to Marshall Assistant Police Chief David Roscher, a man has escaped from MPD's custody.

www.marshallnews.com/story/1565549.html

I have heard lots of gossip about a prisoner escaping from Boonville then I heard it was from the Hab Center. Any news on that???

-- Posted by jaz2009 on Thu, Aug 27, 2009, at 8:02 AM
Response by Geoff Rands/Staff writer:
According to Beverly Wasson, security officer at Marshall Habilitation Center, no residents have left the grounds without authorization.

I am working to get information about the reports of an escaped prisoner from the Boonville Correctional Center.

missy08,

It appears they are expecting a rough flu season this coming Winter.

My wife and I had the Swine Flu about a month and half ago and it was bad. We survived it and are now fully recovered, but I can see where it could kill some of the more vulnerable folks. My prayers go out for all Americans everywhere...I hope that by the Grace of God no one will die from it this coming Winter.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Aug 26, 2009, at 5:29 PM

Kathy Fairchild,

I can appreciate your statement regarding Texas having a history of executing the innocent, however, I did not write the title of the article...I merely posted the title and link. However, I agree with you 100%

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Aug 26, 2009, at 5:18 PM

Did anybody read the article about the H1N1 flu shots and the health department? Interesting...

"algorithm" to determine who is a candidate to receive the vaccine? And the health office will be the only facility to receive the doses? Welcome to socialized medicine.......

m

-- Posted by missy08 on Wed, Aug 26, 2009, at 5:03 PM

news across: I don't think there's any element of "maybe" to Texas executions involving innocent people. The record is pretty clear it's happened, and more than once.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Aug 26, 2009, at 4:49 PM

State-funded report reveals Texas may have executed innocent man:

http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/08/26/t...

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Aug 26, 2009, at 3:58 PM

New font looks great! Shaking things up!!!!

M

-- Posted by missy08 on Wed, Aug 26, 2009, at 3:02 PM

Good point, Gal66! I always use the posted crosswalks as a pedestrian and as a driver I always stop at them. If, however, a pedestrian chooses to jaywalk and not use the crosswalk, then they get to take their chances...I'm probably not stopping for them. ;)

-- Posted by imaloony on Wed, Aug 26, 2009, at 1:54 PM

Fanboy, you hit the jackpot with this one. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Aug 26, 2009, at 1:15 PM

imaloony,

Your 100% correct about stopping at the cross walks, I am on Collage street out by Valley a lot and I have no problem stopping for people at the cross walks but a lot of the young people in that area do not use the cross walks and they need to understand that the cars have the right away then.

Here is another problem what is it with young people that walk in the street and don't seem to think they need to get out of the way of an oncoming car.

And one more I ride a bicycle a lot I do not ride after dark because I do not have the equipment required in Marshall I sure wish others in town would follow the laws before you get hit I almost his an older man on a bike today about 5:15 AM out by Hann & Phillips on my way to work.

-- Posted by Gal66 on Wed, Aug 26, 2009, at 9:14 AM

Here's another off topic reminder: operators of motor vehicles are supposed to STOP at posted crosswalks when there are pedestrians needing to cross. Crosswalks are located at schools (including Missouri Valley College) and on the Square. Just because there isn't someone standing in the middle of the street with a reflective jacket and stop sign, that doesn't mean that you can just cruise on through....

-- Posted by imaloony on Wed, Aug 26, 2009, at 8:31 AM

Here's the URL for the Missouri Driver Guide for 2009. Information about "Sharing the road with mopeds and bicycles" starts on page 60.

http://dor.mo.gov/mvdl/drivers/dlguide/d...

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Aug 26, 2009, at 7:12 AM

Deaths, Missing Detainees Still Blacked Out in New CIA Report:

Inspector General Reportedly Discovered Three Died, Many Unaccounted For by CIA.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=8...

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Aug 26, 2009, at 4:57 AM

Video reveals GOP Senator brushed off Obama assassination threat

http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/08/25/g...

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Aug 26, 2009, at 4:44 AM

Selmac8

You make an excellent point in your comment.

I might add that not only can a driver be ticketed for tailgating, but if the vehicle they are tailgating is a motorcycle or a bicycle they could also be charged with reckless driving as well.

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Aug 26, 2009, at 4:08 AM

A bit off current topic but it needs to be brought up.

You see many people in this town riding mopeds and scooters because there better on gas and with the prices as high as they are it helps save money. What you also see is people tail gating these scooters. I know for a fact that in Columbia if a cop sees you following a scooter closer then 30 yards you will be pulled over and ticketed. If something happens and they have to stop or god forbid wreck you will run them over before you have time to react. Passing a scooter on a public road is also aginst the law. Give these people a break don't risk there lives and your freedom because your in a hurry, If you hit them and they are killed you will be charged with vehicular manslaughter and go to prison.

-- Posted by Selmac8 on Tue, Aug 25, 2009, at 9:49 PM

Kathy,

My apologies for the non-working link to the New York Times' article on vertical or high rise gardening. I thought it might be interesting to the many people concerned w/agriculture. With a burgeoning world population, and the accompanying starvation in some parts of the world added to drought and water shortages in TX and CA, it is yet another problem on our ever growing list of pressing issues.

I'll check the paper copy to access the article, and see if I can locate a working link.

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Tue, Aug 25, 2009, at 8:29 PM

There are state standards for size of rooms, acres for playgrounds. This is why "fitting" a school in a small area--by the high school, old fairgrounds...does not work.

-- Posted by mu-grad on Tue, Aug 25, 2009, at 8:16 PM

Craig Hubbard, My apologies for crediting your work to Kris Marshall. Thank you for sharing the postcards. I'm enjoying the link to the Historical Society's web site as well. On my BID list is the desire to organize photos of the City Garden in Slater and send them to the Saline County repository.

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Tue, Aug 25, 2009, at 8:14 PM

I like to see this, common sense at its best, calm polite discussions on this issue.

First the country club, No, wrong location, one reader said the old fair ground at odell and 240, not a bad idea. How about the north west corner of the high school lot?? If the past board members were thinking they would have bought all that land and then the schools would all be on one site. but for now that is an area available.

Do we need new buildings yes, 20 million for a couple grades (no). A better plan for more kids yes. Come up with a plan that fixes all the problems now if this stimulus is the fix. Not one school at a time.

The country club again, more fuel cost to bus, yes and if the prices keep climbing as they are couple years down the road this will be a big issue.

Bad timing, yes, Ms Ponds just uped our taxes on real estate that has dropped in value if you want to sell, but for her oops sorry we messed up and used the wrong formula to charge you. Incompetence on her part. But the county gets the increase and now the school needs one. I have read other comments about this. If we had not already been hit by her, the school issue would have been alot eaiser to work with.

One comment about the committee not being formed untill issue was already on ballet. Wrong idea, you are asking for alot, the people of Saline county want to comment and work with you, we are not against you just looking out for all of us. Its a bad time to ask for alot of money out of the people who seem to pay all the bills.

Thanks for listening

-- Posted by drop555 on Tue, Aug 25, 2009, at 7:55 PM

Kathy your right I have no excuse for not going to the meeting.

I do like your idea about calling someone in the

school administration and/or the school board to find out about the committee, I will give that some thought.

-- Posted by Gal66 on Tue, Aug 25, 2009, at 6:48 PM

I haven't said much about this topic because I don't have any children in the school system here, but this IS a very important issue.

There is absolutely nothing to prevent area residents who have strong feelings on this subject (and judging from the many comments, I'd say that's a large number of people) to go to the school administration and/or to the school board at any time and ask to be put on a committee or a board, or anything else you want to call it to address this subject. You don't have to wait for anyone to ask you - if you are passionate about this, and feel you should have some input, then get up and DO IT.

I would ask for a show of hands of how many attended the recent board meeting, but I won't bother because I already know the answer - no one.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, Aug 25, 2009, at 5:02 PM

Cheetah, my impression likens this process to the old sleight-of-hand shill game operators at the carnival.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Aug 25, 2009, at 4:31 PM

Gal66,

Look, I don't want to meet you in person. Let it go.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Aug 25, 2009, at 1:36 PM

WTF just so you know I like this idea.

"How about the old fairgrounds where the soccer fields are now across from Hahn & Phillips? Granted it is next to a hiway but there is lot's of access from existing streets."

But I do see a problem with that location it is close to the same railroad tracks that caused all the problems with the Vogle site when a bond issue was put to a vote years ago.

I live somewhat in that area and the smell can be rough at times.

-- Posted by Gal66 on Tue, Aug 25, 2009, at 1:32 PM

What have you seen at Eastwood and Southeast that can make those sites expandable? How long can the internal workings be fixed without spending large amounts of money? Classes meet in the halls, kids in trailers. Can you be specific?

We can pass a tax to house prisoners in a new clean, larger facility(some are our youth)---we should pass a tax that will house students for many years to come.

-- Posted by mu-grad on Tue, Aug 25, 2009, at 1:16 PM

Scarpetta my only problem with that is I think we would only be able to see what they wanted us to see.

WTF,

Well I look at is as my opinion that you are unwilling to change your opinion.

Now if you want to see a tantrum look no further than this post by you.

"Here we go folks. If you vote for this the country club set will be getting thier brand new, shiney school that will be right in thier cozy neighborhood. Convenient for them and thier property values. Meanwhile in the real world we'll be spending more and more money on busses and fuel to get the little darlings down the HIGHWAY and off to school.

No more walking or riding bikes to school, getting excersize and bonding with your buddies as you go to and from school.Unless of course you are fortunate enough to live at the country club."

Oh wait thats not a tantrum in envy!!!!!!

Oh by the way WTF I have a sister that works in the Marshall School District so I have inside information too, but if given the chance I would go have a look myself.

-- Posted by Gal66 on Tue, Aug 25, 2009, at 1:12 PM

Gal 66,

I stated that I know someone who has intimate knowledge of the buildings in question. You have know idea what I may have actually seen or not seen. Like you I have formulated my opinion.

The fact the I would rather not meet in person to argue the point should come as no surprise considering your last post was nothing more than a tantrum.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Aug 25, 2009, at 12:43 PM

If meeting a random person isn't doable, then why not get the school board to have an open house of sorts? Then anyone can have a look without fear of outing themselves.

-- Posted by Scarpetta on Tue, Aug 25, 2009, at 12:34 PM

I would like to get in touch with a member of the Saline County Historical Society concerning a donation. Please email directly at the address below.

-- Posted by ceh_meh@verizon.net on Tue, Aug 25, 2009, at 11:55 AM

Ok I see not willing to be wrong and let someone find out who you are, I think Mr., Mrs. or Miss. Perfect fits better than WTF

-- Posted by Gal66 on Tue, Aug 25, 2009, at 11:52 AM

Gal66,

Look, you have your opinion and I have mine.

We can agree to disagree but I'm not going to "meet" you.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Aug 25, 2009, at 10:49 AM

WTF this is what you posted "how about we stick with what we have. These buildings are not falling down."

I think these schools are in bad shape you say they are not lets go take a look and see for ourselves.

-- Posted by Gal66 on Tue, Aug 25, 2009, at 10:47 AM

Gal66,

No thanks, Besides I never said I had a problem with spending money on the schools to update them.

I'm just not sure if we need one big main school.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Aug 25, 2009, at 10:32 AM

upsedaisy and Ray

Kris Marshall is the coordinator for the Saline County MOGENWEB site, Craig Hubbard scanned the photos, provided them to Kris Marshall, and posted the links you see here.

Kris has just added four more scans that I provided for schools; Benton, Eastwood, Southeast, and Northwest, my alma mater.

Craig Hubbard

-- Posted by ceh_meh@verizon.net on Tue, Aug 25, 2009, at 9:59 AM

Hey WTF I am still waiting on your answer to my first post here http://www.marshallnews.com/story/156316...

What you say?

-- Posted by Gal66 on Tue, Aug 25, 2009, at 9:50 AM

upsedaisy: The link you posted from The New York Times isn't connecting to a story - message says it's "not found."

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, Aug 25, 2009, at 7:41 AM

Someone posted a 1,000-plus word comment last night about Obama's visit to Montana. That's way too long for Speak Out, especially when the content is located elsewhere on the net, including here:

http://tinyurl.com/lptgoo

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Tue, Aug 25, 2009, at 6:55 AM

Marcia and others in agriculture pursuits may find this opinion piece in the NY Times of interest.

www.nytimes.com/2009/08/24/opinion/24Des....

Love the name:) Doesn't it just roll out?

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Mon, Aug 24, 2009, at 10:26 PM

Marine vet addresses congressman, crowd cheers..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rRE5UK6N...

Town Hall Meeting with U.S. Congressman Brian Baird

-- Posted by Third Child on Mon, Aug 24, 2009, at 9:49 PM

I'm with you, ND. Send the whole lot packing.

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Aug 24, 2009, at 7:06 PM

Ray, I hope you noticed that Kris has reposted the addresses to see the postcards of early Saline County photos. Thank you, Kris. I can't recall if I thanked you previously.

-- Posted by upsedaisy on Mon, Aug 24, 2009, at 7:06 PM

Good work Third Child. Please keep posting the news and information.

-- Posted by Ray on Mon, Aug 24, 2009, at 5:21 PM

Relax Ray,

I was attacking thier arguement in what is sure to be the incessant use of the "kool-aid" GOP talking points term.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Aug 24, 2009, at 2:55 PM

"Oh God TC,

Are you one of those "kool-aid" phrase users who will run it into the ground?"

I see WTF is back to attacking people, instead of their arguments. I guess when you don't have a valid counterargument, ad hominem attacks are okay for some people to use on the Marshall Democrat News site. Why?

-- Posted by Ray on Mon, Aug 24, 2009, at 2:12 PM

The local newsreaders have been at it for around 15 minutes, reading one crime report after another.

I've never considered this kind of information newsworthy for common reporting except in extreme instances.

A few years ago I read an article about a woman in Chicago or Detroit, somewhere in that general locale, who was in the news reporting business and became disenchanted with all the crime reports she and others were expected to read during the local broadcasts. She started her own news service which didn't include any crimes reports, and I have no idea if her service is still on the air.

Surely some of you in the news business may recall what I'm talking about, and may even have knowledge if her service prevails.

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Aug 24, 2009, at 12:28 PM

Oh God TC,

Are you one of those "kool-aid" phrase users who will run it into the ground? I never thought I'd say this but I'd rather hear your chlorine rants.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Aug 23, 2009, at 10:57 PM

How can there be any savings in this federal/corporate health monstrosity?

Obama has given that all possible savings away. No public option, no single payer, no cost savings on prescriptions.. Obama has already sold out to big pharma and the big insurance outfits.. and got caught lying about that and so much more.. but it doesn't matter.. believers are still believers.. they still have hope and the koolaid is so sweet..

-- Posted by Third Child on Sun, Aug 23, 2009, at 10:27 PM

"Insurance rates will rise 94 percent by 2020 if cost-saving reforms to the US health care system aren't enacted, a new study from the Commonwealth Institute finds."

http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/08/22/i...

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Aug 23, 2009, at 9:21 PM

Here's something I found, about "way back when", only they still do this. It's like Amish.

http://atlasobscura.com/places/root-brid...

-- Posted by ieatsuperglue on Sun, Aug 23, 2009, at 12:17 PM

Ray and other interested parties.

I posted penny postcard views of Saline County on my personal ShuuterFly site and also on the Saline County MOGenWeb Project

http://salinecountymissouri.shutterfly.c...

http://saline.mogenweb.org/

-- Posted by ceh_meh@verizon.net on Sun, Aug 23, 2009, at 10:38 AM

I read in the Star the other day, Hillary Clinton wants to spnd 15 million on sex crimes in a foreign country.

Hey Hillary, how about the American's living on the street, and the ones with no jobs?

P.S. Obama - Where's their "bailout" ?

-- Posted by ieatsuperglue on Sun, Aug 23, 2009, at 8:10 AM

Time for a new Speak Out. August has been a busy month!

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Sun, Aug 23, 2009, at 8:03 AM


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