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Speak Out September 8 to October 9, 2008

Monday, September 8, 2008

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Come on people get real if you dont like the sounds of the city limits move to the country.If you complain bout any type of vehicle you should do the same on people that talk to loud.Its getting down right sad that any kind of noise is a volation of someones peace.Maybe the people that complain should think and look at the people lookin at you as your cell phone rings and the can hear it.Think it might volate their peace.

-- Posted by arojr on Thu, Oct 9, 2008, at 10:16 PM

To everyone that has a problem with loud bikes, cars, trucks or anything else do something about it. Get a license plate number and call the police and sign a complaint if not STHU!!!!

-- Posted by Gal66 on Thu, Oct 9, 2008, at 5:04 PM

Happy, beautiful autumn, everyone! The trees' leaves are in abundant color!

-- Posted by Green Eyes on Thu, Oct 9, 2008, at 4:05 PM

Our former Police Chief roars around town on his "Chips" style Harley with loud booming pipes.

I'm writing down his plates and turning him in next time.... perhaps, I'll even make a citizens arrest.

Wonder how far I could with that...........?


-- Posted by EiEiO on Thu, Oct 9, 2008, at 3:31 PM

excellent train of thought gokinser11...if you don't agree with someone call them a baby.

are you 8 years old? you must ride a loud bike to compensate for your lack of .... in other areas.

personally, i wouldn't own a donor cycle at any cost...so your logic is flawed as is your maturity.

-- Posted by Paulie Walnuts on Thu, Oct 9, 2008, at 3:17 PM

sounds like a bunch of babies , and most of the ones complaining would have a H.D. or other bike if they could , and as for safety everyone should always ride or drive on the defensive , just always a good idea !!!! because you never know what the other idot riding or driving is going to do !!!!

-- Posted by gokinser11 on Thu, Oct 9, 2008, at 3:12 PM

i totally agree...loud, obnoxious and irritating.

it's a given that if you make anything loud it makes it easier to see...but given this logic we should make all things hard to see on the road loud?

children are hard to see on the road...let's give them some of those air horns in a can to go around blaring all the time...

come on motorcycle riders...that follows your logic...

look past your own selfish ways and consider that your "pipes" are not your given right in this world.

-- Posted by Paulie Walnuts on Thu, Oct 9, 2008, at 3:02 PM

I do believe there is an ordinance already in Marshall: City ordinance #7103 ?

My opinion about the noise/nuisance ordinances…

I agree very annoying if the noise is coming from a car pipes, motorcycle pipes or very loud music. However it seems the key is to actually *do* something about it. Oh sure you can complain all you want…but it does no good. Get a license plate number and call the police and sign a complaint.

Oh but I bet you don't want to *do* that because it will draw attention to you…oh well. Either don't complain or *do* something about it, those are the two options. It is like complaining about a neighbors dog that yaps all night long…if you don't *do* something about it…don't complain.

Based on this news story: http://www.marshallnews.com/story/105274... it looks like Slater had a similar problem. Maybe if we can get the details of the ordinance in Marshall and other towns we can *do* something to make our lives less…loud.

-- Posted by momandgramma on Thu, Oct 9, 2008, at 2:49 PM

Have a sense of humor, What the f... We all knew it was a typo, but we just couldn't resist the humor of it. Regarding the noise (pipes, stereos, etc.), I have it figured out. Some guys have to use noise as a substitute for b_ _ _ _ _.

-- Posted by Ridgeway on Thu, Oct 9, 2008, at 2:46 PM

Just because bikes are hard to see and dangerous doesn't give you the right to violate everyone's peace.

Bicycles are also hard to see, should we put giant air raid sirens on them so everyone can hear them coming? I'm sure most of the loud pipes save lives people would start complaining about that real quick.

I also agree that the loud radios are a nuisance too pulpit rider, so you are wrong about that one.

Riding a bike with loud pipes is not a God-given right like most of you think it is. It is a privilege just like having a driver's license is...

It's not our fault bikes can't be seen. Why should we have to suffer because you ride a small little object that is dangerous????

They don't call them "donor cycles" for nothing.

If you choose to ride a dangerous object then you choose that risk, you shouldn't be able to violate our privacy just because you ride a dangerous object.

-- Posted by Cheese on Thu, Oct 9, 2008, at 2:25 PM

Myself I don't have much of a problem in my area of town.

I do know I was on my sons bike with a loud pipe and had a car almost pull out in front of me and the lady that almost hit me followed me to Caseys and told me the loud pipe on the bike may well have saved my life because she did not see me until see could hear me.

notgvnasht it sounds like the guy in your area is just an A$$

One of the loudest bikes in Marshall belongs to a police officer so I doubt much will be done.

-- Posted by Gal66 on Thu, Oct 9, 2008, at 2:23 PM

Cheese and notgvnashta-

I agree with both of you. I can't stand the loud music or the loud pipes. I don't know how many times I sat in my house and watched the walls and window shake because of motorcycles and music, let alone try to have a conversation with the person sitting next to me. This is ridiculous. My household is a quiet household with a quiet car. A little consideration would be appreciated.

-- Posted by snoozes on Thu, Oct 9, 2008, at 1:54 PM

It's a typo Pulpitrider,

Get over yourself.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Oct 9, 2008, at 12:45 PM

Hey -

I was wondering how many of the folks bad mouthing loud pipes on motorcycles drive cars with sound systems that RATTLE THE NEIGHBORHOOD everytine they pass by.

In my opinion, that is the noise pollution that should be regulated - or even outlawed.

Loud pipes do not spew vulgarities, espouse "gansta" activities or spousal abuse.

The crap coming from most of these loud car sound systems usually does.

And - while I'm at it - would someone like to tell me how a state "succeeds" from the Union?

(re: WTF - Wed Oct 8 2008 at 4:02 p.m.)

Have a great day!

-- Posted by circuitrider on Thu, Oct 9, 2008, at 11:16 AM

No they haven't found the two that took the cancer donation tin. From what I have heard, they have a suspicion of who one of the guy's is but nothing hard yet.

-- Posted by para-chic on Thu, Oct 9, 2008, at 10:40 AM

Does anyone know if they found out who the boys were that stole the cancer can from Break Time??

-- Posted by missanonymous07 on Thu, Oct 9, 2008, at 9:41 AM

Loud pipes do save lives. Look twice, save a life. Motorcycles are everywhere! Maybe you should be reading these tips, Cheese.

QUICK TIPS: Ten Things All Car & Truck Drivers Should Know About Motorcycles

1. There are a lot more cars and trucks than motorcycles on the road, and some drivers don't "recognize" a motorcycle; they ignore it (usually unintentionally). Look for motorcycles, especially when checking traffic at an intersection.

2. Because of its small size, a motorcycle may look farther away than it is. It may also be difficult to judge a motorcycle's speed. When checking traffic to turn at an intersection or into (or out of) a driveway, predict a motorcycle is closer than it looks.

3. Because of its small size, a motorcycle can be easily hidden in a car's blind spots (door/roof pillars) or masked by objects or backgrounds outside a car (bushes, fences, bridges, etc). Take an extra moment to thoroughly check traffic, whether you're changing lanes or turning at intersections.

4. Because of its small size a motorcycle may seem to be moving faster than it really is. Don't assume all motorcyclists are speed demons.

5. Motorcyclists often slow by downshifting or merely rolling off the throttle, thus not activating the brake light. Allow more following distance, say 3 or 4 seconds. At intersections, predict a motorcyclist may slow down without visual warning.

6. Turn signals on a motorcycle usually are not self-canceling, thus some riders, (especially beginners) sometimes forget to turn them off after a turn or lane change. Make sure a motorcycle's signal is for real.

7. Motorcyclists often adjust position within a lane to be seen more easily and to minimize the effects of road debris, passing vehicles, and wind. Understand that motorcyclists adjust lane position for a purpose, not to be reckless or show off or to allow you to share the lane with them.

8. Maneuverability is one of a motorcycle's better characteristics, especially at slower speeds and with good road conditions, but don't expect a motorcyclist to always be able to dodge out of the way.

9. Stopping distance for motorcycles is nearly the same as for cars, but slippery pavement makes stopping quickly difficult. Allow more following distance behind a motorcycle because it can't always stop "on a dime."

10. When a motorcycle is in motion, don't think of it as motorcycle; think of it as a person.

-- Posted by Injesstice on Thu, Oct 9, 2008, at 8:27 AM


Loud pipes irritate lives!

Just because you ride a motorcycle doesn't give you the right to invade everyone's privacy with your obnoxious little bicycle.

If you don't like being seen, drive a car or get off your little bike.

-- Posted by Cheese on Thu, Oct 9, 2008, at 1:18 AM

MoDem: Maybe Ms. Palin is a victim of her culture. After so many years speaking in tongues she just can't switch back to intelligible language.

It just occurred to me that should the Republicans win in November, and their geriatric at the top of the ticket does not make it to inauguration day, we would have two consecutive former cheer leaders as president of our country. Rah Rah.

Actually I think that what Ms. Palin brings to the party has absolutely nothing to do with what she says, and everything to do with how she says it, like a, a,... oh yes, a cheer leader.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Oct 9, 2008, at 12:35 AM

Loud pipes on motorcycles saves lves.Do you always see a motorcyle or are you only seeing cars and trucks?Motorcylces are olot smaller in size and are easily over looked so QUIT BEING A CHEESE

-- Posted by arojr on Wed, Oct 8, 2008, at 11:53 PM

Does anyone know if there is a law/ordinance regulating how loud motorcycles can be?

It seems Marshall has more than its fair share of obnoxiously loud motorcycles.

-- Posted by Cheese on Wed, Oct 8, 2008, at 11:40 PM

litlmissme- I have gone to this train for years, and have never had that experience. The line is a mile long because people from all over Saline County, INCLUDING Marshall, come to see the train.

-- Posted by prd123 on Wed, Oct 8, 2008, at 8:36 PM


If you would check the Santa Express website you would find that the Santa train will be making a stop in Marshall on 12/12 at 4pm.

-- Posted by dot97 on Wed, Oct 8, 2008, at 7:40 PM

And just to let you know...I used to be the winner of every spelling contest in grade school. It was a simple mistake. Sorry again. i just want to know why the police have not reported on this

-- Posted by luckymomma on Wed, Oct 8, 2008, at 7:16 PM

It was a typographical error. Sorry. Geeezzz.

-- Posted by luckymomma on Wed, Oct 8, 2008, at 7:12 PM

Just curious why does the Santa train skip Marshall? It stopped here for several years, now it only stops in Salter. I went to Slater once and the line was a mile long and people kept cutting in and were rude. I won't go back.

-- Posted by litlmissme on Wed, Oct 8, 2008, at 6:44 PM

why is we have heard no more about the children who wrecked last sun morning???????

-- Posted by luckymomma on Wed, Oct 8, 2008, at 4:35 PM

Sarah Palin is living in a glass house on this one not that I give the Ayers thing a whole lot of creedence. Sarah's own husband, up until she became governor, was a member of group of Alaskans bent on succeeding from the union. This past summer Sarah even made a video for them telling them to keep up the good work.The hypocrisy is palpable.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Oct 8, 2008, at 4:02 PM

MoDem, I'm with you on this one.

I'm looking forward to the day (Nov. 5th) she takes her on-camera behavior and returns to the "beauty" contestant realm. Maybe Bert Parks will understand her jibberish.

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Oct 8, 2008, at 3:10 PM

Hey MDN whats been going on with the County 911 board?

-- Posted by SalineFire on Wed, Oct 8, 2008, at 3:00 PM


Let me just pause for a moment and re-read my original post…because well I am not sure what you read…


Yeah, ok…ummmm…really?! Clearly you have a few wires crossed because you go off on a rant about something that does not come close to the comments that were made. People do get in a hurry and Ellsworth street is not immune to the issue. Everyday the twits that decided to rush around our streets put our children in danger.

I follow what the Benton School as set up as a 'policy' for picking up children from the school. I am not sure why you feel the need to yell, unless you are drawing attention to your own inability to decipher and understand the English language.

The yellow lines you speak of…are on the school side of the street. You are correct…this is a no "parking" area. However if you are paused to load or unload you are totally within the limits of the law…because I for one would think the any number of police officers would put a stop to it. Now, that being said, let me break this part down for ya because it was difficult for you the first time…a driver parks their car on the school side of the road (where the yellow lines are that you so kindly pointed out) and exit the vehicle. They then head to visit across the street and hang out with their friends/family…they are the ones breaking the law. ;)

If you have any wonderful suggestions for clearing up the clutter around the schools by all means…let's hear it. Did you pick up at that school last year? Now that was a mess. Maybe since you *think* you have all the answers maybe you need to go to the next school board meeting and making yourself out to be the Einstein you think you are.

Maybe we need to get the local law enforcement to handle the area to deal with the multiple vehicles that are causing the problems. Without the support of the police we can't send the message that our children are more important. As a driver you are required to pay attention to everything on the road include parked cars…you do that right??

-- Posted by momandgramma on Wed, Oct 8, 2008, at 2:49 PM

Sarah Palin answering questions about Obama/Ayers connection: "It's relevant to connect that association he has with Ayers, not so much he as a person Ayers, but the whole situation and the truthfulness and the judgment there that you must question if again he's not being forthright in all of his answers." When asked if she was saying that Obama was being dishonest Gov.Palin said "no." Can someone decipher this for me?

-- Posted by modemocrat on Wed, Oct 8, 2008, at 12:19 PM

mtownresident, if you actually spend time studying the subprime mortgage issue you'll discover that both political parties bought into the idea, and, therefore, they're both partly at fault, since you feel compelled to place blame.

I'd be interested to know how the mortgage fiasco has directly affected you. Were you a private investor in a subprime mortgage portfolio that bellied up?

You should keep in mind that just because an idea becomes a trial program intended to improve the quality of life for certain people, this doesn't give anybody the right to take advantage of the situation for their own gain.


All i'm saying is watch for what you wish for. The liberals in this country love to give away free money and loosen requirements for the minority and lower class in this country and it will fail again. This people are there for a reason and will continue to burn the taxpayers.

-- Posted by mtownresident on Wed, Oct 8, 2008, at 6:23 AM

Actually parking in the yellow zone is allowed according to city ordinance if you are unloading and loading passengers or packages. However I think if we really wanted to fix the problem we would have taken the opportunity when the school bond issue was presented to the community to replace the aging elementary schools. The parking lots and streets at these schools were never designed to handle current 21st century car traffic. These schools were originally designed as neighborhood schools where children walked to school and were not dropped off by parents in cars or on the school bus.

How funny that we want to complain about building a new elementary school to meet the needs of our community and when it doesn't happen we still want to complain about the deficiencies of the schools. You know the saying "You can't have your cake and eat it too!" Pick one or the other, if you want modern facilities for the modern age that will accommodate not only the cars but so much more then support the bond when it comes up, on the other hand if you don't want them, then don't complain about the inadequacy of the facilities and how congested it is. You will have to make sacrifices either way you decide, one being money and no longer living in the past or the other, putting up with the minor inconvenience of traffic congestion while dropping and picking your children up.

-- Posted by missy9000 on Tue, Oct 7, 2008, at 10:50 PM

Can anyone tell me about the new tree in the childrens part of the library? Who created it and when? Was there a story on this that I missed?

-- Posted by Greg House on Tue, Oct 7, 2008, at 9:07 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Yes. Hope to get a story and photos published this week.

I have found a solution to that whole congested mess. I park at least 3 blocks away and walk up to the scool to get my kid rain or shine this gives me some exercise (much needed) amd my child as well. This is not only safer for the children than to run to a car parked on the street in front of the school, but gets my child some exercise as well. This is the last of my four to go through that mess but seriously wait til your kids get to Bueker it gets even worse! Then the high school parking lot!

-- Posted by litlmissme on Tue, Oct 7, 2008, at 4:06 PM

for "momandgramma" who responded on the topic of parking & pick up of children after school, you must of been the lady sitting in the middle of the intersection blocking the road for that white car that was trying to get thru! I disagree with you and what you had to say!People that drive down Ellsworth St CAN NOT be in a hurry because you would never get to where you were going if you were. That street is a mess! Driving a truck thru there mirrors could touch, it is so close, & NOT SAFE! And you said you pick your kids up there everyday, so you are one of the guilty ones who block the road that make it unsafe for everyone else to go thru! And as far as people parked across the street visiting the homes, what's wrong with that? They are parking where they are suppose to! There's no YELLOW LINES ON THAT SIDE OF THE ROAD! You on the other hand are parking illegally! Did you not learn when taking your drivers test that you are not to park where there are yellow lines on the side of the curb? So lets teach our kids that sometimes it's ok to break the rules & Sometimes it's not! All it would take is for one kid to go across the street, and any person driving down the road trying to concentrate on not hitting a parked car to hit a child. But I guess you've got it all figured out, so you keep blocking the intersection, & whom ever it was driving the big white car will continue to drive on the oppisite side of the road! Better than hitting the car that caused all the comotion anyhow!

-- Posted by hisle011978 on Tue, Oct 7, 2008, at 2:44 PM

luckymomma: We are unable to confirm this information with anyone in city or county law enforcement. If you have specific information to share, we'd like to hear from you.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, Oct 7, 2008, at 11:18 AM

guess he walks AGAIN! meanwhile our children are getting dope and ruining their lives

-- Posted by luckymomma on Tue, Oct 7, 2008, at 10:58 AM

Hey NanaDot, where did you get your mudslinging quote?

-- Posted by missy08 on Tue, Oct 7, 2008, at 7:27 AM

Kathy, I am not sure about that but whichever the man posted bond. He had weed and glass pipes in the car. I don't know if they brought charges against him or let him go but it did happen

-- Posted by luckymomma on Mon, Oct 6, 2008, at 10:43 PM

NanaDot, I've been mostly following along with events by tuning in the Charlie Rose program on PBS. He's had a bunch of analysis expressed by people representing a variety of fields, and it sounds as if the bill is the one proposed by the administration, with some "extenders" added on.

I'm hoping the intent is to drastically amend/revise it, but only time will tell. The lawmakers couldn't give it much attention since they were ready to recess. God forbid that they have to cut short their off-time money-making ventures to do something for the country!

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Oct 6, 2008, at 9:39 PM


According to an article posted to the Web site of a local television station here in San Antonio, some 30,000 subprime mortgages in Texas will be the subject of a revision plan specified by Bank of America, which bought Countrywide Mortgage, one of the nation's leading crooks in the mortgage lending business.

The link to the article, if you're interested:


-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Oct 6, 2008, at 6:34 PM

luckymomma: By city or county law enforcement?

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Mon, Oct 6, 2008, at 5:34 PM

Kathy, A known drug dealer got arrested last night.

-- Posted by luckymomma on Mon, Oct 6, 2008, at 5:10 PM

I don't know about "just got busted," but I can tell you that there was a 25-year sentence meted out today by Judge Rolf in a drug case. We'll have that story up as soon as I get done writing it.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Mon, Oct 6, 2008, at 5:06 PM

oh never mind...... just a little weed.... he will walk as ususal. **** shame

-- Posted by luckymomma on Mon, Oct 6, 2008, at 4:33 PM

so is it true a big drug dealer finally got busted?? Or is this unworthy news???

-- Posted by luckymomma on Mon, Oct 6, 2008, at 4:18 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
It's worthy if true.

NanaDot, I'd say the genesis was the overreaction to the '29 crash, the main of which is seen in the form of the '33 Glass-Steagall Act establishing the FDIC and stringent restrictions on banking practices.

The Clinton administration (in 1999) persuaded Fannie Mae to loosen the requirements for home mortgage qualification in the form of a pilot program, and later that year the program was rolled into the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act which rescinded many of the restrictions specified in the Glass-Steagall Act, and this got things off and running.

You're right when you quote the article as saying there are many factors contributing to the collapse. A calamity of this nature can't be attributed to a single factor.

There does seem to be a consensus that deregulating the financial industry, not ensuring strict oversight, and mismanagement by senior financial officials are three important variables.

The economic situation is an extreme example of how the government always ends up in a reactionary mode. I can't think of a single instance where the feds have acted in a preventive way to avoid some kind of serious consequence, and that, coupled with a bandaid remedy, is what generally results.

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Oct 5, 2008, at 6:47 PM

broke-n-busted, I am involved in several big work-related projects now so I don't have a lot of time. But this is something I might start taking on incrementally. A thought crossed my mind to contact film critic/historian Leonard Maltin for some additional resources. I would keep this fairly simple - no big cash outlays though there might be small historical grants available for a project like this.

Perhaps the new Beazly center would be another spot for a panel or plaque in conjunction with exhibits they are developing?

If this takes off, then I lose my anonymity on the web site and have to change my log-in! :-)

-- Posted by Black Rat Snake on Sun, Oct 5, 2008, at 3:27 PM

broke-n-busted: Credit for the farmers market isn't all mine. Amy Crump and Dorothy Arvizu are the other two women who worked even harder than I did to get it going. Our last market for the year was yesterday, but we have plans for next year, including running some seminars and boosting interest in the idea generally.

It's going to take more than three people to keep this going, though, so if you're interested or know others who are, contact Amy at the Marshall Public Library or me at the Marshall-Democrat News office.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sun, Oct 5, 2008, at 10:06 AM

Black Snake Rat you are correct - there should be something about Noble Johnson and his connection to our community. What the project needs is a champion. Someone that will do more than just say somebody should do this. It has to be somebody that says I'm going to do this. And then before long that person will attract some helpers and it becomes we are doing this. This person will find there are lots of people that will help, even more that will contribute and a few out on the fringes that spew negativity and hate no matter how hard you work. If you have it in you go for it! I would support you and I would be willing to bet that there are others on here that will too. I remember a few weeks back Kathy wondered why there was no farmer's market in Marshall. It was because there was no champion - no leader. To her credit Kathy took the lead and put together a farmer's market and the first event was a great success. And guess what? If she doesn't continue to take the lead or find someone to take the lead in her absence the farmer's market is doomed. So be aware that these little community projects are not something you can wash your hands of. They become a part of you.

-- Posted by broke-n-busted on Sun, Oct 5, 2008, at 9:23 AM

what is with all the negativity katie76?

-- Posted by Eff Ess on Sun, Oct 5, 2008, at 8:29 AM

Thanks for the nice comments about Noble Johnson. As important as elections and the current fiscal mess are, there is more to life than politics. In this heated political season, I just felt the need for a little relaxing diversion.

It would seem that somewhere in the community, there should be a plaque or panel that has the biography of Johnson. Perhaps the Saline County Historical Society museum or something in Jim the Wonder Dog Park? A program at the Library, that maybe shows one or two of his films? It doesn't have to be big and grandiose to start.

Certainly, some of Johnson's characters would be considered stereotypes today - but we have to consider the times in which he lived and how he used those parts to breakthrough some of the racial barriers and prejudices faced by blacks in the film industry. Like I said, he was a pioneer in that field and should be remembered for that.

-- Posted by Black Rat Snake on Sun, Oct 5, 2008, at 8:29 AM

kkfates (jjgates...duh), perhaps the person in the photo isn't from this area...breaktime is in an area frequented my millions of people traveling from north to south across the state...

usually the mpd-bashers are ones who have been personally connected to guilty criminals...

as are the high-school-coach-bashers usually wannabe coaches or relatives of kids who are athletically challenged...

as are the public-school-teacher-bashers parents of kids who are constant trouble makers and receive no parental support where it counts.......

and the negative bloggers are usually sad, sad people who can never find anything positive to say about anyone or any place, and really don't know much at all....

-- Posted by katie76 on Sun, Oct 5, 2008, at 8:19 AM

sing it for kkfates

Welcome baaack,

Your dreams were your ticket out.

Welcome baaack,

To that same old place that you laughed about.

Well the names have all changed since you hung around,

But those dreams have remained and they're turned around.

Who'd have thought they'd lead ya (Who'd have thought they'd lead ya)

Here where we need ya (Here where we need ya)

Yeah we tease him a lot cause we've hot him on the spot, welcome baaack,

Welcome back, welcome back, welcome baaack.

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Sun, Oct 5, 2008, at 8:15 AM

I would like to know if the police have figured out who the five kids were who went joyriding in the wee hours of the morning last sunday????? Seems like this is a story noone wants to follow up on.

-- Posted by luckymomma on Sat, Oct 4, 2008, at 5:17 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
What we've published so far:


If more information becomes available, we'll do a follow-up story.

The article on J. Klinge is just ridiculous. From what I hear she boasted openly that she was going to get someone fired (like she had others fired) and hire a relative in his place. Her "stepping down" is not because she wants to, but from what I hear, because she was in trouble with the Missouri School Boards Association for acting in an unethical manner as a board member. She has finally been called on the carpet for what she has been so good at for years...bullying others to get her own way. Klinge appeared to operate under the "good ole' boy" system and tried to make sure her friends and relatives within the distict were taken care of. Maybe she finally was covered in the "dirt" she stirred up on everyone else. I think this is the best news the Marshall School District has had in a long time.

-- Posted by won on Sat, Oct 4, 2008, at 4:50 PM

I would like the Marshall High School Football Team know that you guys did a good job. Sorry for the Loss but hang in there.

-- Posted by mofireman on Sat, Oct 4, 2008, at 4:37 PM

mtownresident, if you actually spend time studying the subprime mortgage issue you'll discover that both political parties bought into the idea, and, therefore, they're both partly at fault, since you feel compelled to place blame.

I'd be interested to know how the mortgage fiasco has directly affected you. Were you a private investor in a subprime mortgage portfolio that bellied up?

You should keep in mind that just because an idea becomes a trial program intended to improve the quality of life for certain people, this doesn't give anybody the right to take advantage of the situation for their own gain.

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Oct 4, 2008, at 10:53 AM


Here's a link to a comprehensive explanation of how subprime mortgages can affect the overall economy, along with detailed explanations of the terminology associated with subprime mortgages. It's a good read and easily comprehended:


-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Oct 3, 2008, at 7:54 PM

There's plenty of partisan blame to go around regarding the sub prime mess. The republicans however, have given us the partiot act, suspension of habeus corpus,torture,treason,war crimes,war profiteering and politicizing of the justice department. I could name more but I'm out of breath. Is that the America we want? Is that the America whom many a brave soul have fought and died for? Is this the American legacy we want to leave for our children? I certainly hope not. We have been driven down a very dangerous road for the past 8 years and we have to change course, right now.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Oct 3, 2008, at 2:41 PM

If anyone wants to know how we got to this sub-prime mortgage mess and who was responsible go to this link of an article in the NY Times from 1999. It will open your eyes, and tell the truth of who's behind it. Not the Republicans running the country now, but the Democrats running the country then. Don't let these liberals fool you.


-- Posted by mtownresident on Fri, Oct 3, 2008, at 2:13 PM

Any one looking for something to do this week end, stop by the high school soccer feild for a two day soccer tournament all proceeds benefit the United way. There will be great food and a raffle. It is Saturday and Sunday and does't cost much. First game both days start at 9.

-- Posted by litlmissme on Fri, Oct 3, 2008, at 2:04 PM

BRSnake, that's a great bio of Noble Johnson! Thanks for introducing him to those of us who didn't know about his connection to the area.

I believe you've made a very good suggestion about hhonoring his memory.

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Oct 3, 2008, at 2:00 PM

Better than I might have done in A Penny in the Well, Black Rat Snake. I discovered Noble Johnson's origins a couple of years back when the new King Kong hit screens and the original was released on special edition DVD. I haven't gotten around to starting a campaign to honor the former Marshallite, maybe now is the time!

-- Posted by ydnasllew on Fri, Oct 3, 2008, at 1:32 PM

JJ Gates has been busy blogging in the Sedalia Democrat.

-- Posted by yomomma on Fri, Oct 3, 2008, at 1:23 PM

What happen or where has jjgates been?

-- Posted by marshallmom67 on Fri, Oct 3, 2008, at 1:10 PM

Thanks for the post Black Rat Snake I enjoyed that and did not know about him at all.

-- Posted by Gal66 on Fri, Oct 3, 2008, at 1:00 PM

Did you know that Marshall was the birthplace of a pioneering African-American actor and film producer? I was watching the original King Kong movie and in a fit of trivia, researched some of the actors and learned the following:

Noble Johnson was born on April 18, 1881, in Marshall. His family moved to Colorado Springs, Colorado, when he was still young. He met Lon Chaney at school and they became lifelong friends, although they never appeared in a film together.

Johnson, as an adult, was built like a bull. Standing 6'2" at 215 pounds, his physique and handsome features put him in demand as a character actor. In the silent era he played characters of different races in a multitude of films, primarily serials, westerns and adventure movies. While Johnson was cast as blacks in many films, he also played Native American and Latino parts and Arabians or even a devil in hell in Dante's Inferno (1924). The old black and white film stock was less discriminating about a person's color, especially with a little makeup.

In 1916 he founded his own studio to produce what would be called "race films", movies made for the African-American audience but ignored by mainstream Hollywood. The Lincoln Motion Picture Co., which was in existence until 1921, was an all-black company and produced the first movies to portray African-Americans as real people instead of as racist caricatures. Johnson, served as president of the company and was its star actor. He appeared on other companies' productions such as 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea (1916), and used the money he earned to invest in Lincoln.

Lincoln's first picture was The Realization of a Negro's Ambition (1916). He reluctantly resigned as president in 1920, as he no longer could continue maintaining a demanding career in Hollywood films while trying to run a studio.

In the 1920s Johnson appeared in such top-notch films as The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (1921) with Rudolph Valentino, Cecil B. DeMille's original The Ten Commandments (1923) and The Thief of Baghdad (1924). He made the transition to sound, appearing in the 1930 version of Moby Dick (1930) as Qeequoq to John Barrymore's Captain Ahab. He played the Nubian in the classic version of The Mummy (1932)He was also the tribal leader of Skull Island in the classic King Kong (1933) and its sequel, The Son of Kong (1933) and appeared in Frank Capra's classic Lost Horizon (1937). He appeared with Bob Hope and Bing Crosby in Road to Zanzibar (1941) and the Jungle Book (1942). One of his last films was John Ford's western She Wore a Yellow Ribbon (1949) in which he played Chief Red Shirt. He retired from the movie industry in 1950.

Johnson died on January 9, 1978, in Yucaipa (San Bernardino), California, at age 96. He is buried in the Garden of Peace at Eternal Valley Memorial Park in Newhall, California.

Slater has rightly honored and recognized its native son Steve McQueen. Perhaps its time for Marshall to resurrect and honor the memory of Noble Johnson?

-- Posted by Black Rat Snake on Fri, Oct 3, 2008, at 10:38 AM

Cheetah, I've stood over there a time or two and imagined I saw some ghosts...I'll have to re-visit tomorrow morning when I'm on the square for the farmers market. Stop by and say hello!

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Fri, Oct 3, 2008, at 8:40 AM

More new reports on our politicians.


-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Thu, Oct 2, 2008, at 5:13 PM

Welcome back, Cheetah...glad to 'see' you!

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Thu, Oct 2, 2008, at 4:33 PM

Whatever happened to JJ Gates? I'm familiar with some of these usernames. Some even paying homage to his greatness with names like DA Gates and Mrs JJ Gates. But where is the real JJ Gates? new screen name? maybe he finally got a job or a life. either way, this site site appears to have made turn for the worst without him.

-- Posted by Eff Ess on Thu, Oct 2, 2008, at 3:29 PM

AF, no we aren't doomed, but many Americans will suffer some significant financial losses because of this situation.

The GLBA, which rescinded many of the provisions established by the 1933 Glass-Steagall Act controlling the banking industry, opened the door for the financial industry to expand like never before. Poor management, poor decision-making, greed, no meaningful oversight all led to where we are today. The varied types of home mortgage financing, resulting in the debt being greater than value precipitated the problems, or I should say, exacerbated the already-evident problems but no one was willing or able to look down the road and see what was coming. Warning signs were popping up in 2005 and those who claimed to know were saying that some lenders and property owners were headed for trouble, but no one believed it could get as bad as it is.

Lots of reasons account for what's happening now,and after listening to all the "experts" this week there is no consensus on a long-term fix, and only some agreement on the short-term effort. However, most do agree that some kind of plan needs to be put into motion, a plan with some protections for the public. As Warren Buffet put it, it doesn't have to be a plan you'd use to fight a war, just the basics for getting things under control so that time will allow for a more refined plan to be created.

Everyone (the experts) agree that the original $700-billion plan wouldn't work since it didn't have any meaningful elements to it or protections for so-called Main Street America, so, the Senate plan is not a panacea and shouldn't be viewed as being the cure-all; it's merely a starting point, but a vital step in the right direction.

Two elements being cited as essential for success are a sound comprehensive final plan, and a government willing to carry it out. The situation is very bleak but not catastrophic if the right things are done.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Oct 2, 2008, at 1:58 PM

Slater - I read that - have no idea what I just read. No wonder the law can be interpreted so many different ways to suit one's needs. Bottom line is, we're doomed.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Thu, Oct 2, 2008, at 12:43 PM

Go here to read the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act (1999) a VETO-PROOF bill signed into law by President Clinton. If you read this, you'll see that this legislation set into motion the events which culminated in the present economic failures:


-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Oct 2, 2008, at 11:42 AM

Doctor Bulldog is an idiot (and probably a blood relative to Bill O'Reilly).

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Oct 2, 2008, at 11:18 AM

Another interesting on-line blog regarding the government bail out. http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com/2008/...

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Thu, Oct 2, 2008, at 11:09 AM

News that is missing, that was mentioned in "Speak Out":

1 - Foot chase with guns drawn through residential area.

2 - Assault resulting in a victim being sent to Columbia Hospital.

3 - Another assault, no transport. (this is the one someone metioned that their name might keep it out of the paper)

4 - Hear say...bus strikes pedestrian?!

5 - 5 kids joy riding

-- Posted by momandgramma on Thu, Oct 2, 2008, at 9:36 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
We'll get on it.

Marshall Democrat News, everyone and Kathy have done what I think is a great job on keeping the county posted on the murder trial. Unlike most people I'm not going to voice my concerns on the outcome that came out of it. The downfall to the tight coverage on the trial, it seems that other important news has not been reported on and its like the county stoped for the murder trial. Thank goodness it didn't. I'm sure you guys are working on past news to get it on the board. When do you think we'll get to read about the kids joy riding, and a foot chase through town?

-- Posted by SalineFire on Thu, Oct 2, 2008, at 8:40 AM


As someone who has worked in lawenforcement I have to differ with you and If I can find the numbers I will agian show you that per capita blacks are traditionally the lowest convicted race of criminal activities.Again numbers baby they do not lie!

-- Posted by litlmissme on Thu, Oct 2, 2008, at 5:04 AM

FYI for some of you folk's who don't have a clue, Marshall Police Dept is required to do a racial profiling after every car stop or pedestrian check. There is absolutly no bias at the department, I have know those folk's for a while and never have I ever heard anything un-true or unplesant. Every police department has their flaw's prime example Slater PD. As to bringing religion into politics, there will never be a happy ending. God, Buddha, or who ever you believe in did not influence those boy's into beating the Shepard's unconscious and burning the bodies. Yeah I don't remember reading that in the bible or hearing about the same conflict's in the Middle East. It's the truth folk's, believe it or not, you yourself make's good or bad decision's and that's the way ball bounces.

-- Posted by para-chic on Thu, Oct 2, 2008, at 1:37 AM

* He voted for partial birth abortion.

* He voted no on notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions.

* Supports affirmative action in Colleges and Government (quotas)..

* In 2001 he questioned harsh penalties for drug dealing as being too severe.

* Says he will deal with street level drug dealing as minimum wage affair.

* Admitted his use of marijuana and cocaine in high school and in college.

* His religious convictions are very murky.

* He is willing to meet with Fidel Castro, Hugo Chavez, Kim Jung Il and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

* Has said that one of his first goals after being elected would be to have a conference with all Muslim nations. Why?

* Opposed the Patriot Act.

* First bill he signed that was ever passed was campaign finance reform.

* Voted to allow law suits against gun manufacturers.

* Supports universal health-care.

* Voted yes on providing habeas corpus for Guantanamo detainees.

* Supports granting driver's licenses to illegal immigrants.

* Supports extending welfare to illegal immigrants.

* Voted yes on comprehensive immigration reform.

* Voted yes on allowing illegal aliens to participate in Social Security.

* Opposed to any efforts to Privatize Social Security and instead supports increasing the amount of tax paid into Soc. Sec. Tax Increase.

* He voted No on re pealing the Alternative Minimum Tax which now hits middle income brackets. Tax Increase.

* He voted No on repealing the 'Death' Tax. Tax Increase.

* He wants to raise the Capital Gains Tax. Tax Increase...

* Has repeatedly said the surge in Iraq has not succeeded...which is not true.

* He is ranked as the most liberal Senator in the Senate today and that takes some doing.

-- Posted by patricia1 on Thu, Oct 2, 2008, at 1:18 AM

It's only natural for the police to show interest in people who act suspiciously.

If you don't want to be hassled, don't break laws and don't act like you have.

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Oct 1, 2008, at 10:29 PM

Those stats are for Saline County not the State of Missouri. I think it is funny that even when you show the numbers people will still try to make a conspiracy out of it. I am sure there are more than 248 blacks in Saline County. So why aren't all those racist cops doing their job...maybe because there is not a race issue other than the ones being fabricated on the blog site! I wish I could pull the race card and use it to explain away or blame someone else for all my shortcomings in life.

-- Posted by DAgates on Wed, Oct 1, 2008, at 10:26 PM


You may also use this link to do your own search for past years, feel free to check every year that they have to see that law enforcement in Saline County are not racial profiling.

-- Posted by DAgates on Wed, Oct 1, 2008, at 10:11 PM


cut and paste and that will bring up 2007 UCR crime reporting for 2007 shows that there is for sure some racial profiling going on...against whites that is (2nd page at bottom totals 1048 whites arrested and only 248 blacks arrested) Please refrain from opening your pie hole if you can't back your jibber jabber with facts.

-- Posted by DAgates on Wed, Oct 1, 2008, at 10:03 PM

ListeningIn, how about sharing the name of the "major" newspaper publishing the details of the Senate bill?

Could it be a paper owned by Rupert Murdock???

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Oct 1, 2008, at 9:51 PM

As reported in a major newspaper regarding the Senate's passage of their bailout bill:

There are dozens of other highly targeted provisions helping makers of wooden practice arrows used by children, film and television productions, motorsports racetrack property and the wool trust fund.

Now, aren't we proud that they will be bailed out??

-- Posted by Listening In on Wed, Oct 1, 2008, at 9:37 PM

I can clearly see where MPD rank's within the citizen's of Marshall. I wonder to how many of the blogger's who are complaining about the police actually took time out of their non-important lives and went to the trial. Although I will say that there were kindergarden mistakes on the Detective's part but they also busted their hump's to put a murderer behind bars. All I can say is what great role model's people are for the future generation of young folks. Be proud of yourselves for letting a criminal walk the line, mabey next time it will be your house.

-- Posted by para-chic on Wed, Oct 1, 2008, at 8:46 PM

I did misquote on the first statisics it is arrested not convicted, but the numbers are the same never the less.

-- Posted by litlmissme on Wed, Oct 1, 2008, at 6:33 PM

Digging in even deeper in non metropolitan areas 425 whites were arrested vs 164 black for murder in 2007. I love numbers!

-- Posted by litlmissme on Wed, Oct 1, 2008, at 6:07 PM

Thanks Kathy! I have made my point in 2007 69.7% were white that were convicted of violent crimes. Thank you for the statistics! As I said numbers don't lie.

-- Posted by litlmissme on Wed, Oct 1, 2008, at 5:51 PM

Obviously a jury found this man innocent.

Busymom31 said:

"But when God freed this man"

Really? Where was this "god" when the Shepard's were murdered? It seems to me like a loving and all powerful god wouldn't waste time to free a man accused of murder but would instead see that the murder never happened.

"But when God freed this man"

Give me a break.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Oct 1, 2008, at 5:41 PM

race, why is it always about race, the whites are becoming the new minority in our so called country, what if we had a all white awards shows, a all white day, we would be viewed as we think we are better etc. i feel blacks have made leaps and bounds on the race card and that is a positive, and still they play the race card or victim more than any other race, they have special days, awards shows for blacks only and individual events like those etc. if equal is what we all want then stop the divide and do things together and face it the entire U.S. is being over run by elsalvador & mexico, so as far as race drop that it's over, whites could be more in a uproar as we are becoming the new minority in the U.S. daily !!!! so be it it's over and due process has been judged & jury, so start a new day and hope this never happens again !!!!

-- Posted by gokinser11 on Wed, Oct 1, 2008, at 5:36 PM

For *national* crime statistics for 2007, some of which are reported by race, go here:


I am looking for specific statistics for Saline County, but have not yet found any. If I find them, I will post links to them.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Oct 1, 2008, at 5:29 PM

"But when God freed this man"

Really!? I thought 6 men and 6 women from Clay County freed him?? Did I miss something??

-- Posted by momandgramma on Wed, Oct 1, 2008, at 4:59 PM

Show me statistics how many people are convicted of crimes in Saline county and what color are they? Bring on the statistics! Numbers don't lie!

-- Posted by litlmissme on Wed, Oct 1, 2008, at 4:06 PM

It would be so easy to say for everyone to bury the race card. The only problem is Marshall has a real race problem. Until the people of Marshall come to accept this the town will forever have this problem. I am not saying that all the police here are out to get Black young people. I am just saying that it is a problem in Marshall and it is very much a reality. There was not one WHITE person that was of authority to welcome home Lyndale. Tell me where the fairness is in that. Everyone had so much to say but when the truth was out and he was a free man noone was there to say I am sorry. Not one person but we can sit on our hands and pretend that there is not a race problem in Marshall but we all know that it is.

-- Posted by busymom31 on Wed, Oct 1, 2008, at 3:55 PM

Bury the race card the guy is in the clear be happy he is free and stop bashing everyone who had anything to do with the case. What more do you want? The trial is over.

-- Posted by litlmissme on Wed, Oct 1, 2008, at 3:39 PM

I would just like to say Thank God. Here is a young man that is going to make a difference. I would like to say that there was a lot of reporters that was here and around henderson family when this broke out over 2 years ago. But when God freed this man where was the Mayor then?? It was nothing but God no matter how you look at it, Marshall is all about Black and White. It is who you know here and that is what it all about. It was noone but God that freed Lyndale and the same way God took him through this It is going to take God get him through the rest of his life.There should of been someone from Marshall Council, MPD we as a community ows him great big I AM SORRY

-- Posted by busymom31 on Wed, Oct 1, 2008, at 1:41 PM

I have very mixed emotions about all of this. After reading a lot that has been left, the kid has been found guilty by the public because of his family and upbringing. Why is everyone so suprised the cops messed up too? Have you seen our PD?

Did a guilty man walk, I guess only God knows the answer. For the sake of the community, I hope all is right. For the sake of the accused, I hope he realizes the need to move somewhere for a fresh start. There is no way in my mind that he is ever viewed as anything other then a killer in this town ever again. Is it right, no, but it is reality.

-- Posted by BDawk4Prez on Wed, Oct 1, 2008, at 10:19 AM

I want to extend thanks to the Marshall Police Department, to Don Stouffer and Joby Raines, the court, and to the jury for upholding our country's laws and constitution.

I am not addressing the status of Mr. Henderson.

I am simply saying that the whole trial was handled in a way that speaks well for those who serve the public.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Wed, Oct 1, 2008, at 8:09 AM

I have to give all of this a hand, if it wasn't for Sherlock Harlow these kid's would have never been a thought in anybody's mind. Surely the Detective's of Marshall Police Department would have known to secure the crime scene and take a few days to process the house. Sure it doesn't look as easy as it does on TV but were talking two middle aged people burned up in their bedroom, come on they wern't having a BBQ, so heck yes it's suspicious. As for our Clay County participant's, can you even find your own six o'clock without using a map. Guess we found out the answer to that question at about 4PM this afternoon.

-- Posted by para-chic on Wed, Oct 1, 2008, at 12:58 AM

Justitia nemini neganda est.

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Tue, Sep 30, 2008, at 10:23 PM

Not guilty, way to persevere young man.

-- Posted by BDawk4Prez on Tue, Sep 30, 2008, at 4:41 PM

I truely hope the work done at the intersection of 65 Highway and Vest will get a Pedestrian Cross and a full Stop Light. Adding the turning lanes will only help the flow of the traffic on 65.

NOT the CROSS TRAFFIC and definaly NOT the people who do not have transportation.

QUIT WASTEING OUR (county & state)TAX DOLLARS and FUND something that makes sense for the good of Marshall Residents.

-- Posted by nomad on Tue, Sep 30, 2008, at 2:42 PM

Interesting item regarding Fannie Mae.


-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Tue, Sep 30, 2008, at 12:14 PM

hisle...comment on benton school I have give Ms Clouse and faculty standing ovation for the way kids are picked up our children are out of harms way ... no parking you are referring to "is for people park and go and visit the homes across the street and camp out" I am picking up out front everyday only thing I see is people that are in big hurry and do not want to wait a turn at the stop...or someone in big white car like pull up to the school stop sign then get out and look see if they have plenty room then try back up in middle of intersection and go on opposite of street ...now if we can all focus and try help school out ..try take turns, go slow, watch for children that is walkers and bike riders etc...remember we are for our children keep our dirty looks a side and smile

-- Posted by momandgramma on Tue, Sep 30, 2008, at 8:35 AM

Friday night.

-- Posted by Mrs JJ Gates on Tue, Sep 30, 2008, at 8:26 AM


I have to wonder of which assault you are talking about?? Would it be the one Thursday or the one Friday? Since there was two and neither were reported on it is hard to tell which you speak of.

-- Posted by momandgramma on Mon, Sep 29, 2008, at 8:11 PM

I have a real good guess on the fight. His Dad probably paid someone to not say anything. This Man (and I use the term loosely) has NEVER taken responsibiltiy for his actions. Maybe this time someone will press charges and stick to it!!!!

-- Posted by Mrs JJ Gates on Mon, Sep 29, 2008, at 4:59 PM


You are absolutely right, go to some of the games around town for even the little people and you will see it as well. My son is on a football team at the Y and you see poor sportsmanship, and parents that participate in it. It is a sad thing to watch. It is also sad to watch some of the children that have no parental support at these events. One little boy I watched as he relentlessly kicked another child. His parents were there but not doing anything to correct it. They did not step up and take little junior aside and say lok son you are here to learn not kick this other kid. They just sat back as if it wasn't their responsibility at all. If it would have been my child doing the kicking or my child getting kicked I would have stepped in. It is a shame that you hear parents all the time say 1, 2, ......3. The child continues doing what they are doing and no consequenses! I am simply blown away!

-- Posted by litlmissme on Mon, Sep 29, 2008, at 4:36 PM


My parenting is not in question here, nor am I pointing fingers at anyone in particular. the state of our youth as a whole is sad at times. Sports is nothing in the grand scheme of things. I only responded in defense of a coach who had been getting heavily criticized by the community. I agree whole heartedly that the parents are and should be held fully accountable. I don't need a coach/teacher to raise my child, but I do need them to hold them accountable when needed, and with my blessing. If my child messes up, sit him, if they don't make the grade or act up in school, tell me the truth.

The problem lies in parents that refuse to work with their child to make them more accountable for their actions, and are too afraid not to be involved on the sidelines at practices because they think little tommy's playing time will go down if they aren't there.

Those are the ones with the problem.

-- Posted by BDawk4Prez on Mon, Sep 29, 2008, at 4:18 PM

Sad Spectator,

You are right that they should not be booing their own.

These kids have a lot to learn, it is about time that the community acknowledges it and calls them out on it. As a coach myself, you would definitly have my blessing.

-- Posted by BDawk4Prez on Mon, Sep 29, 2008, at 4:12 PM

There was also a fight in town where someone was sent to Columbia hospital as a result of the injuries that was not in the paper. Maybe Marshall Police do not release all their reports to the paper?!?

-- Posted by litlmissme on Mon, Sep 29, 2008, at 3:58 PM

What's it going to take for Benton school to pick a different side of the school for kids to be dismissed? Today driving down Ellsworth street I approached the crosswalk @ Benton School & could not get my car thru. I had to go on the oppisite side of the road, as I received an evil eye from the lady sitting in her car blocking the walk(as if I were the one in the wrong!) The road has yellow lines all the way down the street in front of the school, do not park here! But yet everyday it's the same thing! I have 2 kids myself in school, & I find it very unfair that my kids are put at high risk because of the traffic where they are released! Calling the local officials has not changed anything, So what's it going to take? Perhaps someone may have an idea?!

-- Posted by hisle011978 on Mon, Sep 29, 2008, at 3:16 PM

As I watched the Homecoming Parade on Friday from Miami Street (a/k/a OWL PRIDE DRIVE) I was stunned to hear the Marshall Youth Football boys BOOING the other athletes as they passed by!!

Do these young men not understand the concept of GOOD SPORTSMANSHIP?

-- Posted by Sad Spectator on Mon, Sep 29, 2008, at 2:51 PM


The authors of the attached article exemplify a disturbing trend being promoted (knowingly or otherwise) by people in the news reporting business.

These two people have written an article about the great divide of racial prejudice between blacks and whites, generalizing their interpretation of a single instance to conclude that an entire nation is so prejudiced as to make Obama's election unthinkable.

Clearly, they were delving into an area of the social sciences about which they've demonstrated they know little, thereby recklessly and irresponsibly reinforcing the trend.

When I read an article, I expect to see an accounting of the facts of the matter and not the reporter's opinions. Much of what's being reported nowadays is laden with opinion which I've always thought was what we get from the Op-Ed pages. The public is quite capable of forming its own opinions without any biases from the news industry.

It comes back to living up to obligations and how those obligations are sometimes ignored or overlooked.

Although the newspeople have stated that race isn't a part of this election, some in that business, like these two reporters (Fournier and Haines) insist that it is, even to the point of making themselves look ignorant and irresponsible.


-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Sep 29, 2008, at 1:15 PM

I was just wondering where some of the other news that has been happening is at? It is not posted that I can see. Several things have happened in our community that are yet to be reported on...will they be? I realize you can only do so much and that not ever little bit of news can be reported.

However I would like to think that a police chase and foot pursuit with guns drawn yelling 'freeze' through a residential neighborhood would be "news".

Ya know...just a thought.

-- Posted by momandgramma on Mon, Sep 29, 2008, at 1:09 PM

Congradulations Marshall High School Football Team and to the Marshall Coaches. We are so proud of you guys! Thanks for a wonderful homecoming Game. GO OWLS!

-- Posted by mofireman on Sun, Sep 28, 2008, at 7:59 AM


This is a dated bit of news which I suppose everyone has either seen or heard about, but I came across it while sorting through aging emails and decided to post the link just in case.

This is a report about old tires (several years old in some cases) being sold for new tire prices and represented as being "new." This video explains how to interpret the numbers stamped into your tires:


-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Sep 28, 2008, at 12:14 AM

I'll take Va. Tech and 13 points in tomorrow's game with Nebraska. :)

I'll take TCU and 29 points in tomorrow's game with OU. :):)

And I'll be rooting for the Hogs against the Longhorns.

Anybody coming to Austin to see MU beat the odds?

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Sep 27, 2008, at 12:22 AM

AF, when you ran your numbers, were you expecting to see pretty much the same outcome with both plans?

My experiment was to use the San Antonio median income, married filing jointly, and no itemized deductions. I was surprised that the difference was significant in Obama's favor.

I'm not sure what to make of the arbitrary (I presume) 3% wage increase. I think I just said it. :)

It does look as if McCain will have to rework his tax plan if he wants to be competitive.

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Sep 26, 2008, at 11:38 PM

Slater - thanks for the link. It's interesting after running my numbers. Wasn't the outcome I expected. Biggest difference I saw is under Obama capital gains tax goes up and itemized deductions are decreased (which theoretically they should decrease). What's really interesting is that it shows a 3% increase in income each year. How many people have gotten that over the past 3 years?

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Fri, Sep 26, 2008, at 9:52 PM

Yes, Hobie, but also I figured maybe some people would also want to read the article, but thanks for pulling out the link for anyone not interested in the other part.

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Sep 26, 2008, at 3:47 PM

I think Slater was meaning to point to:


-- Posted by Hobie1 on Fri, Sep 26, 2008, at 3:03 PM


Here's a link to an article which includes a link (in the second paragraph) to a site where you can enter certain individual income/deductions information and have a computer model estimate your tax liability for the years 2009 thru 2012.

As indicated in the article, a business software maker and an economics professor took the details from both Republican and Democratic tax plans and created a software to test the details.

It IS an estimate, since the figures you enter will be estimated, but some of you may be surprised by the result:


-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Sep 26, 2008, at 2:33 PM

BDark, if you think the world revolves around some game, then you're in a sad state. You say you want Marshall sports to return to the days when teams were winning, so that your kids can feel proud. That's pretty darn sad, if that's all you believe in.

Every generation wants its following generation to have a better life than it had, and there's nothing wrong with that aspiration. The problem is, some parents have forgotten who's accountable.

Harry Truman had a sign on his desk which read, The Buck Stops Here. Those words are not difficult to understand. In a family hierarchy, accountabililty rests with the parents. Parents are responsible for their kids having games and other material gadgets to keep them occupied. Parents give these things to the kids because they (the parents) don't want to accept the responsibility for teaching their kids responsibility as childadvoc8 described it. It's easier to give them things to keep them occupied and out of your hair, isn't it, when in fact the buck stops with you, the parent. It's up to you to raise your kids, not the coaches, not the schools. It's your respoonsibility, and if they turn to be lazy and disrespectful in your eyes, you have only yourself to blame. You have to give respect to receive it - that's elementary.

No one ever said it's easy being a parent. The responsibilities are great and never-ending, and you have to be prepared for the challenge.

It all begins at home. We either learn how from our parents or we fail as they have failed in their responsibility to prepare us for the future.

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Sep 26, 2008, at 2:06 PM

I am looking back through my posts and trying to find out what I have said that has led some to believe that I think we should treat kids like drill sgt's or that I am not proud of them no matter the outcome of a football game.

What I am trying to say is that there are so many things that are wrong with the way coaches are viewed, chastized, and criticized for when it comes to a teams success. Does Coach Thomas want to win, sure he does. Do the players want to win. I am sure they do. Someone commented on the internet, and tv programs, and video games these days that are a difference in today's kids and they are right. Kids have the easy life now, the give me mentality. When they are bored they would rather put in a movie then go outside. I used to drive by the parks growing up and the courts would be filled with bball players, football fields filled with kids playing, and baseball fields would be the same.

I would enjoy nothing else then for this town to go back to whatever sporting success it has had so that my children can be a part of it.

It is unfair though to blame the coahes everytime something goes wrong, which is what was happening earlier on the boards here. The kids, not all of them, need to be held more accountable at times for what they do on and off the field. The coach has a responsibility in that as well, but sometimes is hesitant over the wrath he may feel from parents. At times a student athlete needs his parents to back off and let things be handled internally. Maybe I am wrong in my thinking, but the level of respect from kids these days towards coaches, teachers, adults is not so good and needs to get better.

-- Posted by BDawk4Prez on Fri, Sep 26, 2008, at 12:52 PM

OKReader, your moment of glory brought back a memory I have of Tom Donnelly, a close friend, being in the identical situation you were in with Seals headed toward the endzone. Tom said when he saw Seals loose and headed toward him, he took a quick look around to see if any help was close by and found that he was alone. He said he remembers saying to himself, "OH, S__T!!", just before Seals ran him over. Seals got his feet tangled up with Tom's body and fell down, his 250 pounds or whatever it was, landing directly on Tom.

When Tom came off the field, Norvell said, "Good job, Donnelly!" Tom drug himself over to the bench and collapsed, overjoyed that he'd survived.

That was the night in Higginsville, when we lost 51-0 but the score didn't indicate how thoroughly they beat us. It was complete humiliation, especially for those of us graduating in the spring, knowing we'd never have the chance to redeem ourselves.

It's nice to know that we gained a measure of respect. I know most of us respected the Owls' success, particularly Melvin Hayob. He knew he had a big job on his hands to make plays against you guys, and I think his performance that night was probably his best game for Slater. I know for a fact that after it was over, he was crying out of frustration. There was no talking in the locker room after the game except for a few words from Coach Norvell. He told us how proud he was of all of us and how much the effort meant to him.

OKReader, I'm glad we've been able to enjoy sharing the memory of that night, including the note about Abney's laces. I've never heard of that happening to anyone before now.

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Sep 26, 2008, at 12:30 PM

Dgates - the problem with letting the large corporations fail is that no one knows how many smaller companies they have grabbed up in the past few years and these companies would also fail. It could be a medical insurance company, homeowners insurance, they could be backing smaller banks. The high salaries of the execs are what tick me off. As for the debt, my Grandchildren will never see that paid off! We need to quit "forgiving" the international debt owed to us, start collecting that and start charging some of these countries who want the NATO support to pay for it.

As for the comments someone made that sports are all about winning - I disagree. Yes, we all want to be on the winners side but there always has to be a looser too. Sports are about teaching discipline, team work, and how not to be a sore looser. I enjoyed the stories from OK and Slater. I remember the rivalry between Marshall & Slater in the 70's. Some great games! Anyone remember Coach Ramey in Slater? Tough but loved his players.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Fri, Sep 26, 2008, at 8:06 AM

Nope slater i don't own a little red, I do believe that the person that owned that truck would be Loyd Pannel from Marshall hes a big car buff.

-- Posted by RedTruckRider on Fri, Sep 26, 2008, at 7:10 AM

Slater I was warming the opposite bench in that 1957 Slater Marshall game. What a thriller.

As I recall it Mickey Hayob was the Slater quarterback, and was a slick ball handler. I know that when I played against him there was (for me) a slight delay in recognizing where the play was going because of his skill at hiding the ball.

By the way on Don Abney's game winning run he burst the laces of his shoes. I had never seen that happen before or since.

I have to this day a lot of respect for that particular Slater football team. It is amazing that they were good enough to play to the same level with a school that much bigger than them, particularly because that was one of the best Owl's teams (if not the best) of that era. Marshall tied for the conference championship with Higginsville (7-7 tie) in football, and won the conference in every other sport that year. No state championships in those days.

George Seals was a load, and went on to a great career at Mizzou, and then success with da Bears. My only moment of glory in high school football came at his expense. Late in a game I was on the field with big George barreling down the field toward me. There was no one else between him and the goal line. I was small and scrawny. He elected to run over me. Somehow I got lucky, and nailed him right at the ankles. He dropped like a felled tree, on the spot. Through the ringing in my head I heard the roar of the crowd. Bliss.

Thank you for the "only yesterday" moment. In answer to the initial question of your posting, yes, I remember the 1957 Slater vs. Marshall football game.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Sep 26, 2008, at 5:35 AM


Does anyone remember Donald Norvell, a 1948 graduate of Marshall High School, and a member of the Mo. Valley Vikings teams?

He was coaching at Slater in 1957, the year that Slater came close to upsetting the Owls. In the closing minute Slater tied the score at 19 but the extra point attempt failed. With 12 seconds remaining, Slater kicked off and Donald Abney took the kick and ran it back for the winning touchdown.

Norvell wanted that game very much and we nearly got it for him (well, the other guys nearly got it, I warmed the bench).

Sadly, that was as close to his finest hour as he would get, coaching in Slater. His low point probably came the next year at Higginsville, when George Seals was a senior there. Higginsville beat us 51-0.

BDark and childadvo, we didn't win many games during my high school years, but we had plenty of support from the spectators and we never quit on them. People didn't cuss the coach and players; it was disappointing for them, I know, but we tried our best and they knew we were doing our best. Coach Norvell was a taskmaster, but he was fair and encouraged all the players, not just the ones who played most of the time.

I think you're being unfair to the kids who are trying their best, and you're being unfair to yourselves because you're missing the best part as you spend this time being critical.

You're right, kids aren't the same as they were when you were their age, but that doesn't make them worse because of it. Emotions never change, and they need encouragement just the same as you did at that age. You don't have to coddle them to be encouraging and show that you care and support their efforts, not just on the football field but in every aspect of their lives.

Take a hard look at what you've said in your posts, and try to be more of the parent you say parents should be. You may be surprised by the positive response.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Sep 25, 2008, at 10:52 PM

RedTruckRider, do you have a Dodge Little Red Wagon that was in the car display at the Fall Festival last year?

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Sep 25, 2008, at 9:55 PM

Ballots?? I don't have to give you no stinkin' ballots!!!!


-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Sep 25, 2008, at 7:04 PM

I guess this Birkenheimer guy is doing his part to validate the results of the study indicating that Americans are unable to perform moderately complex tasks, except in this case it's simple division.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Sep 25, 2008, at 6:50 PM

Yes, however if the government wanted to give that nice welfare check to all... they could do it with 85 trillion dollars (85,000,000,000,000/200,000,000=425,000).

They could forget taxing it since it is coming from tax money anyway or would it be from the leprechaun pot at the end of the rainbow or maybe they could just make more money from the magic printing press. Or if we wanted to be slightly responsible and at least have someone pay it back we could pass the tax burden onto our children along with global warming!!

I say let the companies fall on their face, forget a stinking bailout, what about all the hard working families losing their homes to foreclosure. The banks don't care about them. Why should we have to pay tax burden to make up for their mistakes. I wish someone would explain to me how bailing out AIG helps the average working joe get by?

-- Posted by DAgates on Thu, Sep 25, 2008, at 6:44 PM

Dgates - the math was one of the things pointed out on the blog. Missing a few "0"s.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Thu, Sep 25, 2008, at 6:24 PM

Of course it would help if 85,000,000,000 divided by 200,000,000 equaled 425,000 and not 425.

-- Posted by DAgates on Thu, Sep 25, 2008, at 5:12 PM

Marine1066, that is the most common sense fix to the economy that I think I've heard. It's a shame we couldn't actually get your plan to the politicians for real approval. I am being serious, I wonder why the politicians can't see that a plan like this would actually fix things instead of giving it to one company.

-- Posted by DAgates on Thu, Sep 25, 2008, at 5:00 PM

marine...that statement about the economic bailout is from T. J. Birkenmeier. If you google him, there are a lot of places people have responded to this. Good responses - something to think about.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Thu, Sep 25, 2008, at 3:43 PM

I usually don't chime in on the blogs but I have to on this issue. I attend all the football games (JV and Varsity) that my work schedule allows. I am proud of the kids win or lose. My heart breaks for them when they lose because I know first hand the hard work that they put into practices (at school and home)but I am still proud. What gets my goat is that fans won't show enthusiasm. They sit in their seats and give "golf claps" even for the best of plays. I was ashamed of our home town "crowd" during the Sedalia game when the opposing teams "crowd" had more spirit when OUR cheerleaders were cheering. They showed more support for those girls than anyone in our stands. So next time you're at a game and the girls ask you to stand up with MHS, will you? I encourage you to do so because even though the team has their back to you they can hear the support if we, the community, stand together. GO OWLS. Best of luck Friday!!!

-- Posted by Proudsportsmom on Thu, Sep 25, 2008, at 3:40 PM

I have respect for CoachThomas, He was alwayes very frindly to My Husband and I. The only thing I was upst with him at the end of 2006-07 year my son wanted to go on the feild at his last time On The Home feild and the coaches would not let him and he was very up set it takes a lot for my son to cry and that night he did.He knew he would'nt never get to play on the home feild enymore. At lest one play they were winning, and they still wouldnt let him play. He want through a lot of hassle with some of guys the the most of them he was well like.Chach's son was very good to him. I belive he would gotten to play if it wasnt like the parents now no respect for the boys or them self's and he knew he would get a lot of stuff like he's getting now. that's sad I didnt say enything to Coach Thomas, I try to stay out of what he and how he is coaching . But Now Coach Thomas dont have the team he had and really wants to play. like 2002,03,04,05,06,I belive they dont want to play as bad as those guys.I bet you wouldnt get by doing these kind of thing with OLD Choach Naylor. I hate to hear that MHS is getting a bad wrap,But this is a new FRIDAY. Lets get back with the Gang all here GO OWLS GO. Best of Luck GOD Bless and May the Lord be with all of the HOME TOWN.

-- Posted by mullinsfamily on Thu, Sep 25, 2008, at 3:19 PM

Got this in an email and wanted to share

I'm against the $85,000,000,000 bailout of AIG.

Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to Americain a ""We

Deserve It Dividend"". To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000 bonafide

U.S.Citizens 18+.

Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and

child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..

So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000. My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a "We Deserve It


Of course, it would NOT be tax free.

So let's assume a tax rate of 30%. Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes.

That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam. But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500 in their pocket.

A husband and wife has $595,000. What would you do with $297,500 to $595,000 in your family?

Pay off your mortgage - housing crisis solved.

Repay college loans - what a great boost to new grads

Put away money for college - it'll be there Save in a bank - create money to loan to entrepreneurs.

Buy a new car - create jobs

Invest in the market - capital drives growth

Pay for your parent's medical insurance - health care improves

Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks who

lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company that is cutting

back. And of course, for those serving in our Armed Forces.

If we're going to re-distribute wealth let's really do it...instead of

trickling out a puny $1000.00 ("vote buy") economic incentive that is

being proposed by one of our candidates for President.

If we're going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's bail out every adult U

S Citizen 18+!

As for AIG - liquidate it.

Sell off its parts. Let American General go back to being American General. Sell off the real estate.

Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.

Here's my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn't.

Sure it's a crazy idea that can "never work."

But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party!

How do you spell Economic Boom?

I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Billion

"We Deserve It Dividend" more than I do the geniuses at AIG or in


And remember, The Family plan only really costs $59.5 Billion

because $25.5 Billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam.

Ahhh...I feel so much better getting that off my chest.

Kindest personal regards,

-- Posted by marine1066 on Thu, Sep 25, 2008, at 1:44 PM


I highly recommend Charlie Wilson's War!!! My husband and I started watching it, and you're right, it's slow in the beginning, but my husband, who didn't even what to see it at all, thought it was one of the best films we've ever rented!

-- Posted by koeller77 on Thu, Sep 25, 2008, at 1:19 PM

BDawk4Prez if you think coach Thomas is playing kids because of what a parent thinks or says your are so far off base it's not even funny.

Do you think he does not want to win?

This team is very young, talent in most high schools comes and goes right now we are in a down period.

I will side with you on one thing kids these days seem to be soft but back when I played high school sports we did not have video games, computers and 500 TV stations.

20 years ago if your drove around marshall anytime of the year you saw kids outside playing now you dont.

Now about going to pratice when my son played football at MHS there was a group of us that went to practice almost everyday and watched.

Coach Thomas most days would come up and thank us for coming.

-- Posted by Gal66 on Thu, Sep 25, 2008, at 1:10 PM

The bottom line is this. If you think it is about having fun and winning and losing doesn't matter then you are so sadly mistaken.

Unfortuantly, winning and losingis all that matters. Sales people go out and lose all of your accounts and see what happens. Coaches go 0-36 and see what happens. That is society, it is a way of life. we can't continue to operate our kids in the YMCA eveybody plays, everybody has fun, everbody wins type of attitiude. That is why the entire Marshall sports program is in the shape that it is in. Baseball, football, basketball, etc.

The kid gloves have got to come off with the athletic programs. Let the coach do what he is there to do. The kid messes up, the kid sees the consequence. As long as the coach is using teaching tohelp the kid learn then he is doing the job.

If you aren't better then the next guy, take a seat. Put a team out there to win every time, quit pacifying the kids and some of the parents. If you are that kid, work harder, practice longer, give more effort, pay more attenttion. we shelter these kids so much from failing that when they do, the run and hide in the corner. Show them how to win and lose with dignity and how to earn wither result.

We give, give, give and give and then persecute the ones who spend all of their free time volunteering and coaching these kids.

parents, spend time at home practicing with Junior and quit relying on the coaches to turn your kid into the next Hank Aaron or Walter Payton. you have a job in this too. Stay home and don't go to practice, let the kid earn it. I bet if you asked the kids whose parents lined the little league football sidelines night after night at practice they would tell you the same thing, Go Home.

Let the coaches do their job. time to take the kid gloves off and let them stand on their own. they will become better people for it.

-- Posted by BDawk4Prez on Thu, Sep 25, 2008, at 12:01 PM

Okay, OKReader, how I managed that one baffles me, since I do know better. Perhaps it was a Freudian slip when considering today's circumstances.

Anyway, it's good you're here to keep the record straight.:)

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Sep 25, 2008, at 10:49 AM

Paulie, Just wanted you to know I graduated College, My typing isnt that good. Hope you can find postive things to talk about and quit with being so negitive, Your a prime example of what people are talking about in the community, Maybe you ought to think about moving. You must be a sad person.

-- Posted by mofireman on Thu, Sep 25, 2008, at 9:11 AM

Apparently, he spent all of his time wrestling and very little time actually paying attention in class...such as English.

-- Posted by Paulie Walnuts on Thu, Sep 25, 2008, at 8:58 AM

I would like to let the Marshall Football Team Know that I am behind you guys. On Friday night its a new game, who cares about your record, Go outthere and do your best. When I was in High School I was a 2 time State Champion in Wrestling. I didnt accomplish that by dwelling on the past. I always wanted to do better the next time. My wrestling coaches, Hargrave, White never yelled at me but Hargrave would give you a bear hug and looked away from you that really told us He cared about the Kid. I think the repect card is missing in todays sports. Well Just want the football time to go out and Beat Mexico.

-- Posted by mofireman on Thu, Sep 25, 2008, at 7:34 AM

Has anyone watched "Charlie Wilson's War". I've started but never finished it. The beginning is kind of slow. Hubby sent it to me - said it's a good one to watch.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Thu, Sep 25, 2008, at 6:51 AM

I have seen All the King's Men - just didn't make the connection. Thanks OK. It is a classic. I bought hubby a book of top 101 4 star movies plus it has Oscar winners from way back so we pick movies from that to either buy or rent.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Thu, Sep 25, 2008, at 6:18 AM

Slater, the Robert Penn Warren book, and the movie for which Broderick Crawford recieved an Oscar were titled "All The King's Men". I wasn't going to say anything, but when AFW came back with she had seen the remake of "All the President's Men" starring Robert Redford I thought things might get confused. I agree with the both of you, they are good movies, even if unrelated.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Sep 25, 2008, at 12:32 AM

Slater - I have seen the Woodward/Bernstein 1976 Watergate based story of the same title. We watch a lot of old black & whites. Yesterday I bought and watched Sex and the City. Don't see why all the rave. I liked the series better. I thought the wedding veil was hideous.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Wed, Sep 24, 2008, at 11:53 PM

I just finished watching for about the 20th time one of my favorite films involving politics, All the President's Men. It's a 1949 film which won the oscar for best movie and also the best actor oscar for Broderick Crawford in the rold of the main character.

For anyone who doesn't know about this movie, it's taken from the book with the same title and written by Robert Penn Warren. The story is loosely based on Huey Long of Louisiana.

I'm addicted to these old films! :)

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Sep 24, 2008, at 9:23 PM

para-chic: There may not be a verdict by Friday. The trial was scheduled for five days, but is already behind the hoped-for schedule. The trial will continue until both sides rest their cases and with many witnesses left to testify, that's an unpredictable event.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Sep 24, 2008, at 6:39 PM

Years ago, my son who had severe asthma and coach used him as a role model for the other kids - struggling to breath yet gave it his all - was wrestling in a high school tournament. His opponent's father was yelling "he's weak, he's sickly, etc". I was sitting 2 rows in front of the jerk trying to keep from ripping into him. The coach heard the guy (the 2 kids were both from the same school), recognized him, stopped the match, made the kid forfeit and had his father escorted from the gym. It was the sweetest revenge I've ever seen. My son took first that day.

Might be worth a try for the program in Marshall.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Wed, Sep 24, 2008, at 6:22 PM

Anyone who believes a "kid" from the Marshall football team is going to be a D1 player has been in too many scrimmages without a helmet..

I'm all for supporting the team and coaches but that (D1) comment means someone is delusional.

-- Posted by Hombre on Wed, Sep 24, 2008, at 4:01 PM

okay, time for me to chime in on the marshall football issue. i am a mhs alum from the 80's when we had an incredible team that WON state. any of you 80's football players out there remember how you were coached? if not, let me refresh you...you were yelled at, humiliated in front of teammates and crowds of people, grabbed by your face masks and put to the ground, spit on, made to perform until you puked, and i could go on and on. and what do you think would happen today if the current coaches used those tactics? LAWSUIT!!! why did no parents complain back then? was it because it was working or what? sacrifice the child for the win? parents can't even act human at practices or games anymore when thier child is simply taken out of the game for half a quarter. being an alum i've always gone to homecoming game EVERY YEAR since graduation and take my kids which are in elementary school to share in my memories of high school. but not this year. i have no desire to take them to witness the behavior of some of these adults/parents. these people need to keep in mind as they are yelling out HORRIBLE, HURTFUL things that they are more then likely sitting near a players parents, a coaches kids, etc... try to act human will you. if you think you can do a better job at coaching this team then "apply for the job". it's gotten out of hand and i am no longer very proud of being a mhs alum.

-- Posted by freckles on Wed, Sep 24, 2008, at 2:47 PM

So with any verdict which is supposed to happen Friday, what complications will come of this. Rumor has it that a possible riot will break out or will the citizens of Marshall be content with the outcome. Guess we will find out.

-- Posted by para-chic on Wed, Sep 24, 2008, at 11:50 AM

Good morning, AF :)

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Sep 24, 2008, at 10:41 AM

Just got an email with this anagram in it. Thought it was appropriate:

ELECTION RESULTS: When you rearrange the letters: LIES - LET'S RECOUNT

As for the parents and sports issues - my kids have been out of youth sports for 15 years - it was just as bad back then. My son was in youth then high school wrestling. I never understood why a parent couldn't cheer their child on without making hateful comments about the opponent. Now with a grandson in youth wrestling, I see the same ignorance. Then when their child looses, chastise he/she for it. Yes, everyone wants to win but isn't the point of youth sports to teach teamwork, discipline, and endurance, enjoy participating, and also learn how to loose?

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Wed, Sep 24, 2008, at 10:07 AM

OneOfMany, I couldn't agree more. Some parents exhibit the most disgusting behavior imaginable, and during one game here last season the parents of one team actually started fights with players and parents of the other team!

childadvocate sounds like he'd be one to browbeat his kids in the name of instilling "responsibility."

In case some have forgotten, it's a game, meant to be enjoyed by players and spectators alike. If people can't accept it for that, then perhaps they should find another, less harmful, way to vent their aggression.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Sep 23, 2008, at 10:37 PM

As a long time fan of Marshall sports, I'm disgusted with the attitude of people in the stands. Oh my gosh, I sat in the stands and listened to parents talk horribly about the players and coaches! It's disgusting. I don't think there is a person on the field who isn't trying. Some years are just down years. I do think the one thing that needs to change is the shouting from the stands. I heard a parent yelling about how their kid is going to be a Division 1 player so this year didn't matter! Even if that were true, do they think college coaches will be impressed by their advice? Does this parent really think that those comments are in any way constructive. It only makes the parents look insecure and out of touch with reality. I wish this was an isolated incident, but there were others in the stands chiming in. If parents think they are helping their child develop into a good human being by conveying these negative thoughts about coaches and players, they're wrong. News flash! You're modeling inappropriate behavior to every child in the stands. Likewise, the adults don't want to hear your opinion! Give me a break! No one in those stands ever played one down in the NFL, but they think they're all professionals and have the answers. These are children on that field. While other kids are smoking dope on country roads or getting drunk, those kids are going to practice, sometimes in the heat or rain. We should support these kids while they learn a hard lesson. Not everything in life is going to come easy or go well for them. The best thing sports teaches our kids is when you get knocked down, you pick yourself up and get back in the game. Unfortunately, many of the people in the stands are more than willing to kick the kids when they're down! Lighten up, folks. Oh, and by the way, why do you suppose Marshall has so much trouble finding coaches? Do you think it could be because of the attitude of some parents?

-- Posted by oneofmany on Tue, Sep 23, 2008, at 10:08 PM

To BDawk4Prez

Thanks for saying what many of us have been thinking for awhile now. When will Marshall sports get back to what they used to be? Excellent question!

I don't think we will see Marshall sports get back to what they used to be until the schools quit catering to the parents and the parents start making their children be responsible. Parents have a tendency to cater to their children way too much which is inhibiting to the children. Little Jonny can't be reprimanded by the coach because it will bruise Little Jonny's ego and yet the coach takes the hit from the parents and the community when the team isn't winning because all of the Little Jonny's on the team aren't doing what they are supposed to be doing. It makes me sick!

If teenagers today lived the life of a teenager 30 years ago, we would see a difference. Children used to be able to work in the public at age 13. Now they can't get a job until 16 and some places not until 18. We are breeding a "give me" society in which everyone thinks that everything should be given to them and the shouldn't have to work for it. We have also raised a group of children who think they are entitled to everything from their spot on a sports team to a teacher giving them a good grade. We have become way too lax in raising our children. We, as parents, need to step up to the plate and be Parents, not their friends. If not, at some point in your life you are going to be very sorry. Think about where you want your children to be as adults. Do you want them sitting around the house expecting you, the parent, to take care of them the rest of their lives or do you want them to be productive citizens in our society who aren't afraid to step up to the plate as leaders. I personnally would prefer a generation of the latter but unless we start parenting better, we, as a whole nation, are going to be in a worse predicament than we already are.

Parents, I ask you to back off of the coaches and start being better parents. How would you feel if the coaches were critiqueing your parenting skills and maybe they should be? Remember when you are pointing your finger at the coaches faults, you have four fingers pointing back at you.

Let's try to get Marshall back to where it used to be when we were proud to say that we attended Marshall High School and we took pride in our sports teams even if they were having a bad season. It is through the tough times when we should stick together instead of ripping each other apart. Let's get some good old MHS spirit going and be better parents and support our teams - win or lose!

-- Posted by childadvoc8 on Tue, Sep 23, 2008, at 4:45 PM

AF, yes Philip is now living in Las Vegas. He had a very good career in New York but says he's burnt out on performing and says he's through, no more.

Bruce (he now goes by Hollis, his first name) has a photography business in Kansas City and has done very well. He got his start in New York, working for Scholastic magazine, if my memory serves me.

Our family is/was pretty big, nine of us and about 30 first-generation offspring, and those of us surviving don't see much of each other, or communicate regularly, which I suppose is pretty commonplace but a little sad, too. My parents have been gone for a long time (my dad in 1956 and my mom in 1967), so I have no family ties to Slater any longer, except for one sister there.

The old homeplace where I was born and lived until I left in 1960 is still in the family, in a manner of speaking. The son of a cousin now owns the property and has taken up residence there. The house sat vacant for a few years before he acquired it, and I'm pleased that he has the place now.

I expect your parents knew Bob and Laura Shepard, Jean's parents. Very nice people, they were. They lived on east of Gilliam a short distance.

This should be a great year for beautiful foliage after the wet year up there. We're not blessed with that sort of thing down here.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Sep 23, 2008, at 1:01 PM

Slater - I know Bruce and yes graduated with Philip. I think he just moved from New York - could be wrong. If you google his name there are lots of articles about performances he has done. He sang at my first wedding. Has a great voice.

I think I just made ruts in the street - probably did some resurfacing burning rubber off tires...

I did read the info on the bridge. Pretty interesting. I remember once before - can't remember the year - there was a ferry because work was being done on the bridge. Now I really want to take a drive. Maybe I'll wait a few weeks when the trees start turning. I used to love going to Arrow Rock then driving through the bottoms.

Thanks for the link on dog rescue.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Tue, Sep 23, 2008, at 12:17 PM

When will sports go back to the way it was and the way it should be?

I can't help but to sit and think of why Marshall sports have taken such a drastic turn for the worse? I see the fans in the stands and hear them talking about the failures of the HS football coaching staff and hear all the things that they would do differently. Maybe it's not the coaches fault, maybe there is a lot of blame to share.

Coaches are the easiest scapegoat when it comes to a program loosing. The one thing that remains unfair is that the coach has little to no opportunity to truely be a coach to some of these kids. Parents too involved, sitting on the sidelines at practice, scoffing when a voice is raised toward their athlete, criticizing every move, etc.

Let the coach be a coach. Sure a coach is going to scream and yeall and say some things that you really don't want to hear, but a good coach also take the time to let you reflect in your successes and doesn't allow you to get bigger then what you are. Practice is for the players and coaches, parents stay home!!!! if you want to coach at whatever level, then do it, otherwise let them be. Once they hit junior high, it is time to let them go. If they are being yelled out, maybe they deserve it. maybe they aren't giving the effort. maybe they are lazy at practice, maybe they aren't paying attention,a ll things you can't see from the sidelines but are quick to put your 2 cents in. go back to the days when you earn a position, not have one given to you. The YMCA mentality of everyone plays is garbage and has no place in sports after grade school. If you are good enough, you will play, if you have the heart and desire to get better you will play, if you aren't any good, practice.

If parents spent the time practicing with their kids outside of formal practices instead of critiquing from the sideline, little junior might actually get better. Quit complaining about playing time when he gets burned on the end for a touchdown everytime the other team touches the ball.

Coaches owe it to the kids to provide a quality program, it's about time they did what they need to do to do it, rather then trying to suffice the parents who complain

-- Posted by BDawk4Prez on Tue, Sep 23, 2008, at 12:04 PM

I'd forgotten about the '93 flood washing out the highway. When I was around 8 or 9 there was a flood (1950 or 1951) that washed out the highway in the bottoms. I went down there with my dad for a load of sand which had come out of the river which he used to make me a sandbox out behind the garage. I remember how fine it was, unlike any sand I'd ever felt up to that time.

AF/Red, did you look in that MoDot Glasgow bridge site that Editor Crump posted? There's a link to the history of the bridge and Howard/Saline counties which I found to be very interesting.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Sep 23, 2008, at 11:22 AM

So, Jean has upped the price again, eh? The last subscription I had cost $28. for the year, and the reporting had gotten pretty bad, so I decided to stop taking it, not because of the price, but for the other reason. As you said, Red, some weeks there isn't much to it. Actually, it got to the point where I wasn't recognizing any names, so it was like reading a paper from Salisbury or Fayette or any other town full of unfamiliar names.

AF, here's another of the free pet food links:


Before Main Street was resurfaced (back a 100 years ago :)) it was brick, and a guy who worked for the railroad was standing out front of the deopot one night and yelled at me, "Pressing that brick, eh?" as we drove up and down.

Red, what do you know about all the big trees that were cut down around the city? I heard a story about some guy showing up and convincing the people at city hall that the trees were blighted and needed to be removed. Any truth to that? That was one very noticeable change I saw when I was up there in 1992 looking around.

AF, ask your brother if he remembers Bruce Officer, class of '67. His youngest brother, Phillip, would have been about your age, I think, maybe a year ahead of you.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Sep 23, 2008, at 11:05 AM

Speaking of dogs...I heard about this on Good Morning America some time ago. There is a daily trivia question and for every person who visits, they donate food to animal shelters. Here's the link for any interested animals lovers.


-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Tue, Sep 23, 2008, at 9:49 AM

Redtruckrider - I don't know about those Christmas pictures....I prefer my pictures from 10 years ago to current. Some people just don't age well if you know what I mean.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Tue, Sep 23, 2008, at 9:39 AM

I have some fond memories of Slater - in the 70's when Hal Smith was Chief of Police, we could sit on Main Street and drink beer as long as we didn't bother anything and kept our trash picked up no one cared. My parents never did understand how I could put 100 miles on the car going up Main street but that U turn at the depot and the block around the Christian Church - added up a lot of miles.

As for 240 highway going to Glasgow - maybe Redtruckrider could explain better but the flood of '92 (?) washed that highway out. I was there when they were trying to fill the hole the river cut going back to its path from the 1800's. It was pretty devastating. I haven't been through there since it was all rebuilt. I just remember my Dad talking about the houses in the bottoms being gone - and the asparagus fields.

Maybe I should subscribe to the paper. 6 of my classmates email all the time and we have annual get-togethers which are fun and they have mentioned the deceased dog's notoriety.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Tue, Sep 23, 2008, at 9:36 AM

The paper here in Slater isn't much count most weeks. I do buy one every Thursday in front of the Pharmacy. I like the past years section. unfortunately the paper has went up to $0.75 and thats just a little high for the content, but thats the economy for ya. The dog every Christmas gets old. Whats even better is Christmas is her favorite holiday and all the staff that has been there ten years has the same pictures on the staff page. you would think that you would want your current picture on there. Slater, I'm glad to read you remember your roots. Slater has had a lot of changes in the last few years. They seem to be for the better!

-- Posted by RedTruckRider on Tue, Sep 23, 2008, at 9:05 AM

AF, the paper was purchased by Jean (Shepard) Black, and it wouldn't surprise me one bit about the dog pictures. I was a classmate and good friend with her older sister, Joan, and Jean married another of my classmates, John Black. They're divorced now, and from what I hear she sort went off the deep end. I don't know about the glam part, but there'd be no pictures of deceased dogs. :)

I was thinking about the terrain where the Glasgow bottoms begin and I remember a distinct short drop in the highway and then the road becoming flat all the way to the bridge, maybe around 5-6 miles of flatlands. I'll bet your grandchildren would enjoy that ferry ride. You know, the river isn't very deep at that point, or at least parts of it. I was remembering that carload of kids who died when they came down that big hill (on the street connecting to the east end of the main street) and the car went off that bluff into the river. Part of the car's exhaust pipe was sticking up out of the water and someone said that the river was only 4 or 5 feet deep at that point. What a morbid thing to think about!

I won't mention the number of years since your graduation, but I imagine you'll get to a class reunion at some time. :) I've been to only one, the 25th year, and we had a good turnout - about 35 out of 49, and it was fun!

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Sep 23, 2008, at 8:18 AM

slater - you mentioned the Slater News Paper being for sale in the 90's - I was told by a friend that the people who bought it are still printing pictures of their deceased dog (from mid 90's) so maybe you could have put more glam to it!

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Tue, Sep 23, 2008, at 6:28 AM

Sometimes, in fact often times, Wikipedia is very accurate. If there is no source to the statement in question in Wikipedia, they do make note of that. In addition, you can find their sources footnoted at the bottom. Its not a good primary source but as a secondary source that is qualified by other independent sources, I can see no reason in the World why shouldn't cite it.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Sep 22, 2008, at 10:31 PM

Further WTF - Wiki was pretty accurate on the outcome wouldn't you say?

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Mon, Sep 22, 2008, at 8:41 PM

WTF - thanks for the info but reliable or not, it's all how you wish to interpret or which opinion you want to agree with. For me, it happened to be Wiki. I'm not arguing anymore. Done. Over it. Moving on.....

Slater - I haven't been back there in years. I actually went to Orearville Elementary then to Slater. The cut off was at the Glasgow Bottoms - about a mile from my parents farm. They sold it and moved to Marshall in the early 90's. I haven't been to Slater or Glasgow since then. I have thought about taking the grandkids across on the ferry - just for kicks. Plus I'd like to see the bridge construction. It seems everytime there is a class reunion I have something else going on. Keep hoping to make it one of these years.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Mon, Sep 22, 2008, at 8:30 PM

AF Wife,

I don't mean to sound to critical but were you aware that Wikipedia is in no way consdidered a reliable source?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Sep 22, 2008, at 8:02 PM

Did you have a choice of attending school either at Glasgow or Slater? I was trying to remembert where the break would be, but I could only recall kids from Gilliam coming to Slater schools. I think Gilliam had an elementary school, or maybe it still is in operation.

I was in Slater July 2006 for a family gathering, the first time I'd been there for 14 years. I was actually shocked at how much things have changed there.

Somewhere around 1990 the Slater newspaper was for sale and I thought very seriously about bidding on it until my family voiced their feelings. My daughter, who was then around 12 asked if Slater had a mall. heh heh When I said no, she said no thanks, don't want to move there. In hindsight I'm probably better off for not pressing the issue. I don't think I'd want to live there now even though it's where my roots are.

Thanks for this most pleasant surprise! :)

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Sep 22, 2008, at 7:26 PM

no - husband grew up in NW Illinois.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Mon, Sep 22, 2008, at 6:58 PM

My oldest brother's oldest son was in the class of '67. (I'm the youngest of 9 - that brother is 19 years older.)

I expect I'd recognize your maiden name, but I doubt that I knew your brother, since I really didn't know anyone in that class other than my nephew.

Is your husband from around there?

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Sep 22, 2008, at 6:42 PM

ahhhh, sorry - class of '74, oldest brother in class of '67

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Mon, Sep 22, 2008, at 6:31 PM

Wow! How amazing is this!

Class of '59. Know anyone in that bunch?

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Sep 22, 2008, at 6:09 PM

Slater - I graduated from Slater High - grew up close to Glasgow. Talk about the small world. We probably know each other or at least know family members.

I love it here. No matter where you go there is going to be downsides but we wanted to retire close to my kids, wanted a hobby farm, wanted close to the water and as my Dad always said, "buy land. They aren't making any more of it". The housing crisis hasn't affected this area yet. Most homes are second homes people could afford or retired people whose homes are paid for. Prices haven't been affected either. This end of the lake hasn't been as busy this year with recreation boating - I think because of gas prices but weekenders still come down. We just have more community picnics and more of us use jet skis because they are cheaper to operate.

Like I said, Truman is much safer - more open space and not as many big boats because you can't have private docks on it. It's all Corp land with leased marinas who rent out slips. Convenience without the hassle. Lots of hilly, curvy back roads but you learn to be more cautious especially on weekends.

Hope your friend involved in the boating accident is OK. I found this on NICAR web site: "The Lake of the Ozarks in Missouri is the third-most accident-prone waterway in the U.S., after the Atlantic Ocean and the Colorado river, according to U.S. Coast Guard boating accident data from 1995-2004." The state has also cut back the budget for water patrol which makes it even worse.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Mon, Sep 22, 2008, at 5:56 PM

AF Wife, I feel much the same way about getting out of the city and into a more open space. I'm planning to move back to Missouri in the next year or so , but I'm not certain where I want to locate. I always liked the Lake of the Ozarks area, but I can imagine how covered over so much of the land now is around it. I've thought about Saline County but I'm not definite on that either. I think about how good it was to grow up in that area, but I have an idea it would be a lot like moving to a foreign country.

Yes, I've heard some real horror stories about boating on the lake. A classmate from Slater school days told me that she and her husband were on a pontoon boat which was rammed by another boat, knocking her into the water. The pontoon boat passed over her and a prop blade caught her in the hip, propelling her out of the water. She said that was the last time she's been on the lake and has no intention of pressing her luck.

I hear the stories and so many of them remind me of the scene from the movie Caddy Shack when Rodney Daingerfield swamps a number of small craft with his huge cruiser. The thought of things like that happening is almost surreal, like those things just don't happen, but they do.

Here ya go, sport! Your training hour is over, here's the key, go knock yourself out! Crazy, indeed!

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Sep 22, 2008, at 5:00 PM

news across - thank you for the shortage on detail. Here is the Wikipedia version of the results and apparently was the one that mattered.

Bush narrowly won the November 7 election, with 271 electoral votes to Gore's 266 (with one faithless elector abstaining in the official tally). The election featured a controversy over who won Florida's 25 electoral votes (and thus the presidency), the recount process in that state, and the unusual event that the losing candidate had received 543,816 more popular votes than the winner.

In the American system of presidential elections, the electoral vote determines the winner, and Bush won this count, although Gore received the most votes (called the "popular vote"). This was the fourth time in American history that a candidate won the presidency without receiving at least a plurality of the popular vote; it also happened in the elections of 1824, 1876 and 1888

I vote in MO and there was no dispute here.

Can we just agree to disagree and move on now?

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Mon, Sep 22, 2008, at 4:51 PM

Thanks for the tip, Notgvn. I know it's pretty difficult to pin down the source of a problem, and I suppose that's why Microsoft or a computer sales company passes the buck back and forth. My desktop is from Dell, and that's part of the problem, in my estimation. We have two Dell desktops and both do funny things. The laptop is an HP, which I don't like, either. My wife has cabbaged onto it.:)

Sometimes upon startup it'll boot to the password screen and then fail; sometimes upon startup it'll boot to the desktop and freeze; sometimes upon startup the video drivers won't load the first time; sometimes the custom settings will revert to the default settings, etc., etc., etc.

What prompted the reinstall was when I could no longer update the system. I got an error msg sayying a certain file couldn't be located, so I called Dell and the guy said it would be best to start over, so I wiped the hard drive and did as he suggested. This worked for a couple of months, but now it's starting to do the weird things again.

I do like some features of Vista, but some days the aggravation is almost more than the benefits.

Most if not all of the occurrences have been windows generated, I believe, but there could be issues with other hardware. Nothing is really serious, just aggravating as the devil. :)

I'm glad you're having a good experience with Vista. I'm looking forward to Windows 7, or whatever they're calling the next generation. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Sep 22, 2008, at 4:35 PM

Air Force Wife,

I won't go into a lot of detail here, but the Popular Mechanics debunkers were debunked -- one of the links I posted is in fact the debunking of the claims of Popular Mechanics. You might try giving it a read over.


In addition, regarding the vote count I refered to. It is a fact that in undisputed votes -- those votes Nationwide that were never questioned by either party in anyway and fully accepted by both -- Gore received more votes Nationwide.



Difference........ 543,895





Thus, if you voted for Bush in 2000, you were in the political minority not the majority.

That is a fact not a theory -- see the election results above -- which includes the official United States Government 2000 election results. Gore had more than half a million more votes than did Bush and that is an undistputed fact.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Sep 22, 2008, at 4:23 PM

When will sports go back to the way it was and the way it should be?

I can't help but to sit and think of why Marshall sports have taken such a drastic turn for the worse? I see the fans in the stands and hear them talking about the failures of the HS football coaching staff and hear all the things that they would do differently. Maybe it's not the coaches fault, maybe there is a lot of blame to share.

Coaches are the easiest scapegoat when it comes to a program loosing. The one thing that remains unfair is that the coach has little to no opportunity to truely be a coach to some of these kids. Parents too involved, sitting on the sidelines at practice, scoffing when a voice is raised toward their athlete, criticizing every move, etc.

Let the coach be a coach. Sure a coach is going to scream and yeall and say some things that you really don't want to hear, but a good coach also take the time to let you reflect in your successes and doesn't allow you to get bigger then what you are. Practice is for the players and coaches, parents stay home!!!! if you want to coach at whatever level, then do it, otherwise let them be. Once they hit junior high, it is time to let them go. If they are being yelled out, maybe they deserve it. maybe they aren't giving the effort. maybe they are lazy at practice, maybe they aren't paying attention,a ll things you can't see from the sidelines but are quick to put your 2 cents in. go back to the days when you earn a position, not have one given to you. The YMCA mentality of everyone plays is garbage and has no place in sports after grade school. If you are good enough, you will play, if you have the heart and desire to get better you will play, if you aren't any good, practice.

If parents spent the time practicing with their kids outside of formal practices instead of critiquing from the sideline, little junior might actually get better. Quit complaining about playing time when he gets burned on the end for a touchdown everytime the other team touches the ball.

Coaches owe it to the kids to provide a quality program, it's about time they did what they need to do to do it, rather then trying to suffice the parents who complain.

-- Posted by BDawk4Prez on Mon, Sep 22, 2008, at 4:17 PM

notgvnasht - I agree, I actually like the options Vista has but I've had my satelite modem for about 4 years, it works great so don't want to spend $500 to upgrade just so it's compatible with Vista. When I bought the new desk top, I had to order through a friend's company so I could get XP. Businesses haven't approved Vista so XP is still available to them. I have been told that I could hook a wireless router to my modem and run the lap top through the satelite that way. Just haven't bothered trying it.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Mon, Sep 22, 2008, at 2:29 PM

BTW Slater - if you haven't been to the Lake since the 60's - you wouldn't recognize it. I go to Sunrise Beach shopping every so often and every time I go I see more construction being done. It has really expanded in the last 15 years. There is now a toll bridge at Sunrise Beach and Highway 54 through Camdenton is all 4 lane and busy. Businesses everywhere!

Kathy - Platteville is a great little town. I used to go to and support the concrete canoe contest every year too. The fall colors up there are amazing! Yes, John Deere has been good to the Univ. and vice versa. I worked at an engineering firm in DBQ - 75% of the employees were graduates of Platteville. I did recruiting at their career day several times - had a great time. When we left there, they were taking bids for the construction of a new engineering facility on campus. Has that been completed?

I will never forget the day the towers collapsed and the week that followed. I had to take Amtrak to Chicago because the company wouldn't allow anyone to fly. The site is very sobering.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Mon, Sep 22, 2008, at 2:12 PM

Slater - we built our "retirement" home here a couple years ago - have horses and acreage so after years of city living, we love it. As for boating on the lake - We have a 30' cruiser but I don't like to take it on the Ozarks - we dock it on Truman. There are just way too many bigger than 30' boats on Ozarks side. I won't ski on it nor will I let the grandkids ride the tubes on it. We do however take the jet skis out during the week or Sunday afternoons when most weekenders have left. We don't go below the 70 mile marker so am not around Bagnell - we're toward the upper West end. I refuse to go to party cove (6 mile marker) and that area is where most accidents occur. In fact - there is now a sign stating that Fort Leonardwood enlistees are not allowed in there. Lake of the Ozarks is one of the highest (if not #1) accident rated lakes in the country. Just too crowded, too many inexperienced boaters, and too much partying and not paying attention to others. Anyone with $'s can rent a boat and get a 1 hour lesson on how to operate it. It's CRAZY!

I agree the subject needs to change - there are just some things that are so ridiculous I can't let slide.

What the f..... glad you agree on the twin towers and even I appreciated the humor. Good one.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Mon, Sep 22, 2008, at 1:16 PM

Air Force Wife: I never cease to be amazed at the connections that cross my path. I lived in Platteville for 10 years (1972-1982) and you are correct that UW-P has an outstanding engineering school. More than a few graduates have made their careers at the John Deere factory at Dubuque, where I also spent many years working. My daughter lives in Platteville now, so I visit 3 or 4 times a year. It's a nice town, similar in size to Marshall.

I've seen several TV specials on the subject of the towers' collapse and like you believe it was their construction that was their downfall. It's interesting how much New Yorkers embraced the towers after 9/11, since they were *extremely* unpopular when constructed. When I was a student at NYU in 2003, I daily walked past the ruins - and never failed to experience a chill at the destruction still evident.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Mon, Sep 22, 2008, at 1:13 PM

AF Wife, last night after you and news had been going at it hammer and tong, I was going to offer to change the subject.

I recall your mentioning that you live on or near the Lake of the Ozarks, and I wanted to ask what it's like nowadays.

I've spent many weekends down there when my mother's sister and her husband had a little place on the lake close to Laurie, MO. It had six or eight cabins and a lodge, and it was a nice quiet place to relaz and enjoy things (plus, listening to their fish stories).

As a kid I spent a few summers on the lake attending church camp and boy scout camp, and I always looked forward to those times.

I've read one or two newspaper articles reporting the unsafe boating conditions there now. Kind of hard to believe, considering the size of the lake, but I suppose most settled areas are pretty well clustered.

It's been many, many years since I was last there (1960s), and I'm sure I may not recognize some areas, like around Bagnell Dam, maybe.

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Sep 22, 2008, at 11:29 AM

As to the tower collapse, I understood it resulted from an inherent design characteristic.

I have a desktop and laptop running Vista Home Premium (what a memory hog it is!). Although the laptop doesn't get a lot of use, it hasn't exhibited much abnormality at all. The desktop, on the other hand, is a mess. It's now about 1-1/2 years old and I had to reinstall the os at 14 months, which helped initially, but it's getting back to its old tricks now. I'm seriously thinking of going back to XP Pro which I like very much and which never acted out.

How about Internet phone service? Anybody using it?

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Sep 22, 2008, at 11:08 AM

I don't believe the attacks on 9/11 were a conspiracy involving the Bush administration for one reason......they worked.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Sep 22, 2008, at 11:05 AM

Gal66 - you're welcome. Personal note here (if anyone cares), in 2005 I attended a seminar at UW (Wisconsin) Platteville - one of the highest ranking engineering schools in the country - on these theories. It was primarily for structural engineering students and university donors. It dispelled any "insider" conspiracy theories that were going around. The design of the building, the way the layers were connected caused a domino affect in the collapse. Some of these same people are the ones who chased Hale-Bopp.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Mon, Sep 22, 2008, at 9:16 AM

AFW thanks for the links to the PM story

-- Posted by Gal66 on Mon, Sep 22, 2008, at 8:59 AM

news across - watched the video of the POW. I find it appalling that a veteran of this country would discount what happened to any of the POWs in the 60's and 70's. So what if McCain has a temper - sometimes that's a good thing.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Mon, Sep 22, 2008, at 8:17 AM

News Across tahnks for the links on the physics of 9/11

-- Posted by Gal66 on Mon, Sep 22, 2008, at 7:56 AM

news across - I thought you said you read Popular Mechanics....well, here is a 2 liner of their findings taken from their web site: "To investigate 16 of the most prevalent claims made by conspiracy theorists, POPULAR MECHANICS assembled a team of nine researchers and reporters who, together with PM editors, consulted more than 70 professionals in fields that form the core content of this magazine, including aviation, engineering and the military. In the end, we were able to debunk each of these assertions with hard evidence and a healthy dose of common sense." http://www.popularmechanics.com/technolo...

Beyond that, I will not respond. In this case, I have to accept the fact that no one can argue with ignorance.

As for the Bush election counts - heard all that before, even watched the movie made about it. Just another conspiracy theory. Talk about living in fear! My God man you are a paranoid old fella aren't you?

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Mon, Sep 22, 2008, at 7:44 AM

HIGHLY DECORATED AMERICAN HERO AND FORMER POW, Phillip Butler, Lieutenant Commander - United States Navy speaks on his experience as POW at "Hanoi Hilton" POW camp in North Vietnam:


-- Posted by news across on Mon, Sep 22, 2008, at 6:48 AM

Sure Missy...don't worry...we won't tell Bush...he'll blame it on a conspiracy of 19 Arab hijackers...your secret is safe with me.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Sep 22, 2008, at 6:25 AM

We are running vista on two different laptops. Not had any problems.

I had a desktop computer and two printers (on a different desktop) "crash" dead last week. (Don't tell "you know who", he'll blame it on a conspiracy.)

-- Posted by missy08 on Mon, Sep 22, 2008, at 5:54 AM

For anyone who may be interested in reading further into the physics of 9/11, here are some excellent sites that describe the scientific calculations and other facts relating to 9/11 including the debunking of the debunkers.

1.) Free Fall speed and the Twin Towers:

(A.) "South Tower collapsed in 10 seconds"

(page 305, paragraph 4, 9/11 Commission



(B.) Free Fall calculations and physics



(C.) Analysis of WTC Building Collapses by

Independent German Engineers:


(D.) Easy to understand explantion of

Newton's Laws of Physics and free fall:


2.) Thermite and The World Trade Center Buildings

(A.) "Why Indeed Did the WTC Buildings

Collapse?" By Dr. Steven E. Jones

Physicist and Archaeometrist,

Professor, Brigham Young University


(B) "Calculations on the Possible Use of Thermite to Melt Sections of the WTC Core Columns," S.P.I.N.E. : The Scientific Panel Investigating Nine-Eleven


-- Posted by news across on Mon, Sep 22, 2008, at 5:38 AM

Actually AirForce Wife,...

...If you voted for Bush in 2000 you were in the minority.

Vice President Al Gore had more 539,000, undistputed votes Nationwide than did then Governor Bush.

Bush "won" because the disputed vote count in Florida was order stopped by the 5 Republican Justices on the Supreme Court . The 4 Democrat Justices voted to continue the count since each State has jurisdiction over its own election and the Florida Supreme Court had ruled that the count should continue. This gave Mr. Bush the electoral votes of Florida giving him just enough electoral votes to win the election.

However, in terms of total undisputed votes Nationwide, 539,000 (over half a million) more people voted for Gore than did the number of people who voted for Bush. It was the second time in our history that the candidate with the most votes lost the election.

As far as my statement regarding the Bush Regime's official conspiracy story,...again, his story is full of holes -- and over 100 million Americans agree with me.

By the way, again, the South Tower fell at free-fall speed -- that according to the 9/11 Commission Report, page 305 -- a commission comprised mostly of prominant Republicans -- and that presents a great problem for Bush's conspiracy theory. According to Sir Issac Newton (Father of modern physics), any object encountering any amount of resistance beyond air resistance cannot fall at free fall speed. This is a fact. It is part of his Laws of Gravity. Thus a collapsing building cannot fall at free fall speed. The only way that can happen is in controlled demolition -- so how did those explosives get planted in the buildings? Also, you may want to consider this. The maximum burning temperature of jet fuel is 1800 degrees -- that is as hot as jet fuel can get. The minimum weaking temperature of the type of steel used in the South Tower is 2500 degrees -- that leaves a difference of 700 degrees. In addition, each steel column was covered in 4 inches thick asbestos. Even if somehow, by some miracle, the combined burning of materials in the building could have reached 2500 degrees it still would not explain how the building collapsed uniformally.

I might add that Building 7 was never even struck by any aircraft.

But before we can even look at that we must first get past the fact that a collapsing building cannot fall at free fall speed -- that is simply impossible with out first planting explosives in just the right places and firing those explosives at exactly the right time and in an exact order.

The Bush Conspiracy theory fails to explain this impossibility. Thus, there is a big hole in his story. His explanation simply cannot be true because it would require the violation of the Laws of Gravity -- and that is not possible.

There are many, many other problems with the Bush conspiracy theory as well -- such as how did the traces of thermite (a chemical used in cutting charges) found in the rubble of all the collapsed WTC buildings get there? This and many other questions are the reason that me and 100 million other Americans question the impossible explanation George Bush gave us.

I stand by my previous statement.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Sep 22, 2008, at 12:39 AM

BTW notgvnasht - you really should consider gvnasht. Life can be cruel.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Mon, Sep 22, 2008, at 12:33 AM

slater - still trying to comprehend....

I have Vista on a lap top but my satellite system isn't compatible with it so don't use it much. When I have used it I haven't had any problems.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Mon, Sep 22, 2008, at 12:00 AM

AF Wife, are you still there?

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Sep 21, 2008, at 11:22 PM

How many Vista users do we have in here? Has anyone had to reinstall it because of problems?

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Sep 21, 2008, at 11:17 PM

news across....."I think you supported the Republicans in 2000, 2004, and you support them now." --- along with the majority of Americans.

"I am not convinced an Arab organization or 19 Arab terrorists committed the crimes of 9/11. There are many unanswerd questions and the Bush Regimes Official consipiracy theory is full of holes" --- OMG!!! I am finally speechless.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Sun, Sep 21, 2008, at 9:54 PM

Well notgvnasht,

I didn't know that there were rules for topics on this forum.

This politcal crap as you put it does effect Marshall and everwhere else. This could be the most important election in several generations and I for welcome the discussion.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Sep 21, 2008, at 9:11 PM

I second that notgvnasht!

Get your own political blog.

-- Posted by momaster on Sun, Sep 21, 2008, at 8:08 PM

Air Force Wife

1.) I am an independent -- a true independent -- I actually belong to a 3rd Party -- pay Party dues, participate, ect. My Party is not running any candidates this election and while we don't agree with the Democrats on every issue, we have decided that of the two major parties in this election the Democrats are running candidates that can best serve our Nation. I am not a Democrat but yes I am supporting their candidates and their platform...for now.

2.) I am not here to answer your questions. You may ask me all the questions you want, but I have no obligation to provide you with answers. In fact, I recomend you increase your research, dig deeper, and look for the answers yourself -- you may be amazed at what you will learn. I am not engaged in formal debate with you. If we were engaged in formal debate, there would be a moderator and in no way would you or I be able to address the other directly or ask any questions. I make my statements and then attempt to qualify them as best I can, then I try to move on.

3.) I see no basis for the senerio you presented in your analogy of a Democrat held White House and no qualification for that senerio.

4.) I believe if the Republicans continue to occupy the White House we can expect the same failed policies of the last 8 years to continue for the next 4 years. I have no reason to believe that the same Republican Party who masterminded these failed policies will be any different -- especially since their Party Platform has remained essentially the same as that of 2004.

5.) I have minimized no ones constructive efforts to make this a better Nation. In addition, I have strongly supported our troops begining with my opposition to these multiple wars -- called for by neocons such as Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld, William Kristol, Jeb Bush, et al, in the well known PNAC Document written and signed by them before the 2000 election (http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf). I have supported bringing our troops home since the begining. I have believed then as I believe now that we can best serve and protect our troops keeping them on our own soil where they can defend our Nation rather than sending them to foreign on soil fighting wars for oil and control of the Middle East.

6.) I am not convinced an Arab organization or 19 Arab terrorists committed the crimes of 9/11. There are many unanswerd questions and the Bush Regimes Official consipiracy theory is full of holes -- begining with the fact that the South Tower managed to violate the law of gravity by falling at free-fall speed (9/11 Commission Report, page 305 http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911.... Sir Issac Newton says that is impossible unless of course it was a controlled demolition. Yes I read the Popular Mechanics alleged debunking piece and it too is full of holes -- including major mathmatical errors in their calculations. Until they can get around that little physics problem and many other impossiblities, I don't buy their story at all -- neither do over 100 million other Americans.

Please note again, that I am not here to answer your questions. I address those issues I am concerned with. Its not my place to either explain everything to you or to respond to every point you make. Sometimes I just don't believe its worth my time and effort to respond to some things. That is my perogative.

Also, please note that I am not trying to convince you to vote Democrat. I don't care how you vote. In fact, despite your claims that you haven't made up your mind, I believe you probably always vote Republican. From many comments you have posted in this forum, I think you supported the Republicans in 2000, 2004, and you support them now. I don't think there is anything anyone can say or do that would cause you to vote any other way. That is your perogative.

Good luck with that.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Sep 21, 2008, at 3:40 PM


1) have we had any more terrorist attacks or are we still able to travel anywhere we want and feel safe?

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

-Benjamin Franklin

2) do you have a job, roof over your head, car to drive, food to eat, stores to shop whenever you want, utilities to keep you comfortable, the right to voice your opinion?

3) do we have an all volunteer military as opposed to a forced draft to keep us safe?

4) are you able to worship (or not) the way you chose to?

5) do you have police, fire, and EMT protection available when you need it?

As to points 2 thru 5

Gee your right, I didn't have any of that stuff before GW Bush. Thank you king George.

As far as giving GW any credit it will be interesting how history will look upon his presidency.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Sep 21, 2008, at 1:13 PM

news across - since you compared the 2 party political system to cancer - let me elaborate. In the end cancer will kill you. In the meantime, you can take the treatment which will make you so sick you wish you would die, there is a high chance of a very poor quality of life during the treatment, and this treatment could destroy you financially. Is this the scenario you wanted pictured? It seems you use a lot of words and metaphors to put down the Republicans instead of spending that energy building up the Democrats. As a stout Democrat you 1)paraphrase other's comments to suit yourself, 2)you downplay other's opinions to suit yourself, 3)you minimize other's sacrifice's for this great country to suit yourself, 4)you dance around the real issues with a lot of words, and 5)you ignore questions and comments you don't have answers or solutions for or when your opposition makes a valid point your use #4 above. Also, I am shocked at the way you blew off the safety of your son in Afghanistan with what has happened there. Really makes me question your sincerity - and you represent Democrats? Ha!! Afghanistan is still a fight in retaliation for 9-11 and it isn't finished yet or would you rather stick your head in a hole and ignore how we were attacked and ignore the fact that Bin Laden is still alive and a real threat to us and anyone else who disagrees with his sick way of thinking?

Missy08 - you are sooooo right. I should have heeded your advice but no, I fell right into it. big mistake and waste of time. Although maybe not so much because after this charade, I think I will vote Republican. I don't like what I see in the Democrats that I've encountered here. I did read the article in the Star. Good points. The funny thing is, my very first post on here was this: "If the Democratic candidates can't change things while serving as Congressmen/women, how are they going to make things any better as President/VP? Oh, they haven't been in Congress for 18 months - they have been out campaigning.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Wed, Sep 10, 2008, at 12:30 AM"

All the words that have been thrown around here and no one has answered my original question thus referring back to #5 above which refers back to #4 ... and the wheels on the bus go round and round.

Everyone have a great day!

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Sun, Sep 21, 2008, at 7:52 AM

Good morning. AFW, you fell into the trap last night. Remember, you can't argue an "opinion" and get anywhere. NOBODY on this comment board knows all the facts but many are declaring what is right and wrong by what they "believe" to be the truth. The world of politics.... Stick to your guns (yes, I meant that).

Did you read those editorials that I told you about? I think this one sums it up the very best -- "A Democrat thinks: 1) governmental solution, then 2) individual responsibility, only if necessary. A Republican thinks 1) individual responsibility, then 2) governmental solution only if necessary. Each approach has its strengths and weaknesses."

Another thing, during the Conventions, did you notice all the demonstrations outside the Democrat convention? NO? Why? Because all the Republicans were at work!!!! But then......

I'm busy today. Not in the mood to argue. Everybody have a great day!

-- Posted by missy08 on Sun, Sep 21, 2008, at 7:15 AM

Airforce Wife

I understood your words just fine, thank you. In my opinion you were very clear.

As to the two Parties out there, I suggest you read their platforms. You will find they are distinctly different approaches to the problems. In addition, going with the same Party that has caused the problems to begin with will most certainly mean continuation and worsening of the problems.

Its a lot like deciding against cancer treatment because there is a slight possibility the treatment won't work. In such a case, one thing is certain -- the cancer WILL kill you.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Sep 21, 2008, at 3:06 AM

news across - something I didn't address in my last post - you're paraphrasing my statements to make them sound the way you want. I stated: "As for people who think this country is so terrible - instead of running your mouth complaining, get involved and do something about it. Otherwise, shut up and accept what you're given or find another country where you think you would be better off." and you come back with "Finally, you tell me and people like me -- people who love their Country and want to see its freedoms, liberty, and rule of law restored -- to, ..."shut up.." No, Air Force Wife, I will not "shut up" nor can you shut me up." I had OTHERWISE in my statement. Once again, you did not read what was typed. You read what you want into it. Bottom line is that our opinions of the current administration aren't different. We actually agree on most accounts. You just want to argue and tick me off which you are good at. The difference is that I am not convinced that the option we have at this time is going to be much better.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Sat, Sep 20, 2008, at 10:30 PM

Air Force Wife

I have read your comment below.

I repeat, I stand by my previous comments.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Sep 20, 2008, at 10:27 PM

news across: my post was in direct response to this question put out by what the f....: "tell me one thing in the past 8 years that this administration has done right." Are you saying that the response to 9-11 wasn't done right? As for the rest of your rhetoric, you stated "There was nothing personal at all about my comment" what do you call it? "So if you wish to stick your head in a hole and pretend everything is ok, that is certainly your perogative" when you clearly put my sign on at the top of your post. That's not personal? As for your analogy - you're reading what you want into my comment. I have watched the current administration for the past 8 years. I have heard everything that has been done wrong. It doesn't need to be repeated over and over. Ever heard the phrase "beating a dead horse"? That's what you're doing.

As for your son in Afghanistan, God be with him. He and the others stationed there need lots of prayer and support right now.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Sat, Sep 20, 2008, at 10:12 PM

Air Force Wife:

There was nothing personal at all about my comment.

In an earlier comment you stated,

"Please don't reiterate all the bad. I'm tired of hearing only the negative. I don't care if it is red or blue - I believe Bush handled our security during a very sobering time and I think he needs to be given credit for that. Just my opinion."

Your words, Air Force Wife, your statement, your opinion.


(1: inference that if two or more things agree with one another in some respects they will probably agree in others 2 a: resemblance in some particulars between things otherwise unlike b: comparison based on such resemblance http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionar...

My analogy of your statment -- that resembling an ostrich burying its head in a hole so it won't see or know the danger around it -- is what I believe to be quite accurate. You seem to want to not know the truth of what our President and his Party have done to our Nation. You seem to want to shut it all out and pretend only good things have been done by that tyrrant on the Hill. Your statement indicates you prefer to ignore the negatives of our situation -- a situation that is result of a Republican Administration in the White House for the last 8 years.

I stand by my statement.

In additon, you want to tell me that you are making a great sacrifice. Well that is good that you and your husband are doing your best to help our Nation in the way you have chosen.

Here is my sacrifice: I have 3 sons. All 3 are currently serving in the United States Army. 1 is stationed in Afganistan where he has fought in many daily battles and continues to fight. I have 2 other sons serving in the occupation of Iraq. They don't like the political motives behind these wars nor do they have any respect for the politicians that sent them there. Never-the-less, they wanted to serve their Nation as their Father, their Grandfather, their Great-Grandfather, and Great-Great-Grandfather did and I am proud of them for that.

They are in danger everyday -- danger of losing their lives all for their Country and they are my only children, Need I say more?

Then you want to tell me,

"As for people who think this country is so terrible - instead of running your mouth complaining, get involved and do something about it. Otherwise, shut up and accept what you're given or find another country where you think you would be better off."

My response to your statement regarding getting involved is this: First, I refer you to the paragraph above regarding my 3 sons. In addition, I am very active through the use of the internet and other forms of communication in organizing lawful, peaceful resistance to the tyrrany of Mr. Bush and the Republican Party, and I am working hard to bring change to Washington by helping out that Party that I think is willing and able to bring that change. I think I certainly am well involved in doing something Air Force Wife.

Regarding your advice that I and others like me move to another country. That sounds a lot like you are questioning my love for my Country and my patriotism -- neither of which are up for debate. In short, its sounds like you are telling me "America, love it or leave it." That is an absurd notion and I reject it out of hand. I love my Country so much that when it is wrong and going wrong, I admit such and work to right the wrongs rather than making excuses for the folks who caused the wrongs. In addition, I already do live in another Country where we are indeed much better off. We are free, civilized, at peace, have socialized medicine for all our people, have a strong economy, a surplus in our Treasury, have strong civil rights that are backed and enforced by the full weight of the Government, and our leaders live by the rule of law. They don't break the law. However Air Force Wife, I did not check my American citizenship at the door when I moved here nor did I give up my love for my home Country.

As an American citizen -- born and raised right there in Missouri, U.S. of A. -- I have every right to comment on the conditions of my Nation and the folks who caused those conditions as well as state my opinion as to what I think the best solutions to those problems are -- a right given to me by God, codified by our Founding Fathers, and defended by my direct ancestors, my 3 sons, and myself.

Finally, you tell me and people like me -- people who love their Country and want to see its freedoms, liberty, and rule of law restored -- to, ..."shut up.."

No, Air Force Wife, I will not "shut up" nor can you shut me up.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Sep 20, 2008, at 9:07 PM

news across - how dare you accuse me of having my head in a hole. Now you made it personal. I am sacrificing more than you can imagine for this war that I don't agree with but due to a career choice I have to deal with it every day. Do you really think the situation doesn't scare me when my husband is in the middle of it? Do you really think that when I said I'm tired of the same negative statements that I'm ignoring them? Don't judge or assume anything about me or my opinion. I was asked a question so answered it. As for people who think this country is so terrible - instead of running your mouth complaining, get involved and do something about it. Otherwise, shut up and accept what you're given or find another country where you think you would be better off.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Sat, Sep 20, 2008, at 7:42 PM

Airforce Wife,

In the process of "protecting" us, Mr, Bush has also lied to us, violated our laws, spied on us with out a warrant -- a warrant required by our Constitution and our Federal laws, attempted to strip us of many of our civil rights, introduced the barbaric and un-American practice of torturing people, bankrupted our economy, sent our children off to die in a war fought to make the oil companies even richer than they are now, ect.

While some folks like you may think that is a reasonable price to pay for "protction," please understand that there are many, many of us who strongly disagree with that kind of thinking and believe that if we no longer represent freedom in the form of a Nation of laws and guaranteed civil rights, that there is then nothing left to protect -- we have become as bad as the enemy we fight and no longer represent a model of Democracy and freedom for our people and to the World.

For many Americans -- probably a large majority of Americans -- such a price is way, way too high and is not the solution. For many of us that is the cowards way out -- to meekly go along with a Presidency that borders on tyrrany in return for "protection." We are not wiling to surrender our system of Democracy, freedom, and rule of law in exchange for some alleged level of "protection" -- the occurance of which is highly debatable in and of itself.

For many of us who look to history for its lessons, we see another Country, another people, who were also willing to exchange a system of democracy, freedom, and rule of law in order to create a moderate feeling of security -- the German people of pre-WWII Germany. That is not a nation the American people wish to emulate. That is not the American way.

While you may be sick and tired of hearing the sad truth about Mr. Bush and the Republican Party and all the terrible things they have done to our Nation and our people, ignoring these events will not make them go away. Now is the time we as a people face these attrocities and take up our responsibility and obligations as patriots to make every effort to return our Nation to its once great status as a bastian of freedom and democracy.

So if you wish to stick your head in a hole and pretend everything is ok, that is certainly your perogative -- but please don't insist that the rest of us do that as well.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Sep 20, 2008, at 7:02 PM


Here is a paragraph from the description of the National Guard according to Wikipedia:

With the consent of state governors, members or units of state National Guard may be appointed to be federally recognized armed force members in active or inactive service. If so recognized, they become part of the National Guard of the United States. The National Guard of the United States units or members may be called up for federal active duty in times of Congressionally sanctioned war or national emergency. State National Guard may also be called up for federal service, with the consent of state governors, to repel invasion, suppress rebellion, or execute federal laws if the United States or any its states or territories are invaded or is in danger of invasion by a foreign nation, or if there a rebellion or danger of a rebellion against the authority of the federal government, or if the President is unable with the regular armed forces to execute the laws of the United States.

So you see, they aren't just for disaster refief.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Sat, Sep 20, 2008, at 6:45 PM


Let me repeat: "Please don't reiterate all the bad. I'm tired of hearing only the negative." I know what you are saying and I have heard it all before - many many times. My only point was exactly what you pasted from my post into your first paragraph and it had nothing to do with Iraq. Although, the man who ordered those planes was hiding in a safe place at the time. Wonder where that might have been? At least give Bush credit for this one good thing which affected all the things I listed. Which by the way, has nothing to do with New Orleans or Texas! Or was that a conspiracy too?

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Sat, Sep 20, 2008, at 6:30 PM

Air Force Wife said, "So, the one thing I will always say about President Bush is that after 9-11, he reacted to prevent us from loosing all the above."

Yeah, but how many lives have been lost in Iraq - which had absolutely nothing to do with 9-11. If you listen to Bush you would think Saddam Hussien himself ordered those planes to crash into those buildings. In reality he had absolutely no role in the terror attacks to our country that day. Although, in reality the man that did order those planes to crash into those buildings is still out there somewhere...lying in wait to someday try do something else equally horrifying to us. But when that time comes we will have spent a lot of our resources to defend ourselves in Iraq!

Furthermore, speaking of resources...most of our National Guard are in Iraq or other places around the world (Kosovo), while Texas has nearly been blown away. We haven't even gotten New Orleans repaired yet. Now we have to clean up Texas and our government has our help somewhere else. Isn't the National Guard the NATIONAL Guard...meaning aren't they supposed to be herein the Nation to help with disasters, etc. here?

-- Posted by Typesetter on Sat, Sep 20, 2008, at 5:08 PM

What the f.... maybe I should elaborate a little since you did ask about the past 8 years.

1) have we had any more terrorist attacks or are we still able to travel anywhere we want and feel safe?

2) do you have a job, roof over your head, car to drive, food to eat, stores to shop whenever you want, utilities to keep you comfortable, the right to voice your opinion?

3) do we have an all volunteer military as opposed to a forced draft to keep us safe?

4) are you able to worship (or not) the way you chose to?

5) do you have police, fire, and EMT protection available when you need it?

These are just the first things that come to mind. Life could be much worse if all the above were taken away. So, the one thing I will always say about President Bush is that after 9-11, he reacted to prevent us from loosing all the above.

Please don't reiterate all the bad. I'm tired of hearing only the negative. I don't care if it is red or blue - I believe Bush handled our security during a very sobering time and I think he needs to be given credit for that. Just my opinion.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Sat, Sep 20, 2008, at 12:37 PM

What the f.... Don't look to me for a good answer to vote Republican or for a good answer to vote Democrat. I can only give reasons to NOT vote for either one. I just keep reading and listening and will probably not make up my mind until I'm on my way to vote. Right now I'm more concerned with the market and the commitments we're making. The current situation is going to give the next President even more to deal with. Neither one have told us how that is going to affect each and every one of us tax wise and I think we are all intelligent enough to know it will.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Sat, Sep 20, 2008, at 12:11 PM

AFW, don't waste your time. You can't argue "opinions". And a lot of people here aren't interested in facts.

Saw some interesting letters in KC Star today. You might want to check them out. They are on the opinion page. "Difference Between Parties"

What about Rangel's comments yesterday? That was a bad move. But will probably be overlooked.

Have a great weekend!

-- Posted by missy08 on Sat, Sep 20, 2008, at 11:57 AM

OKReader, thanks very much for the link! What an interesting article it is.

I wasn't aware that McCain had given a confession, but that fact would go a long way in explaining his subsequent role in the sealing of POW and MIA records.

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Sep 20, 2008, at 9:57 AM

Well AFW,

I am still wating for you or anyone else to give me one good reason to vote republican. Maybe this will make is easier, tell me one thing in the past 8 years that this administration has done right.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Sep 20, 2008, at 9:05 AM

momaster: Blame it on the Republicans. Everything else is their fault, why not football game scores.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Sat, Sep 20, 2008, at 8:58 AM

Why can't the Marshall Owls win a football game this season?

-- Posted by momaster on Sat, Sep 20, 2008, at 8:11 AM

Dear rr3yv0,

When I asked (tounge in cheek) for someone to give me one good reason to vote republican you said:


No one likes abortion but why did you stop there? You forgot gay marriage? I don't have any numbers to back up my opinion but if you were really so against abortion then you should support gay unions because as a group I suspect they have very low abortion rates. Don't forget about your guns and support of an American theocracy.

I wonder if you would be willing to go to Iraq and talk to the families of all those innocent dead and tell them your views on the sanctity of life?

I think every effort should be made to find alternatives to abortion such as sex education, contraception,counseling,adoption etc. but at the end of the day it is a choice left up to the individual. The ironic part is that if we stay on the path we are on I believe we will see an increase in the number of abortions

This country is melting down before our very eyes much of which is a direct result of republican policy. As consumers many of us have a hard time just paying our normal bills but as taxpayers we apparently can afford to bail everyone out. John McCain has always touted himself as a de-regulator and his financial advisor Phil Grahm is the guy that pushed through legislation the has put us right on the brink of depression which would have global ramifications.

Finally, as to my screen name. I have already been called out on that by your betters and can only say that it is a perfect reflection of how I feel about what is going on these days.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Sep 20, 2008, at 7:53 AM


Your comment certainly seems to reflect the sentiments of many Americans today -- including me.

I guess we as a Nation have forgotten that time-tested and proven saying the Great Depression generation knew so well,.."With the Republicans, the rich get richer and the poor [and middle-class] get poorer."

It seems its going to take a repeat of the Great Depression to remind us of why the generations before us elected such great men as Franklin D. Roosevelt.

May God help us all!

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Sep 20, 2008, at 6:32 AM

At the site listed below is an interesting commentary regarding John McCain, and the prisoner of war issue vis a vis the missing in action guys.


-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Sep 20, 2008, at 3:43 AM

I am not at all happy with the choices made by our government to try to stop what may be a greater threat to our nation than was the Great Depression.

What sticks in my craw is that government decided that we the people would buy all the bad mortgage notes. Maybe it had to be done. The powers that be stated that they had clogged credit fluidity to the point that new credit needs could not be fulfilled, without which, our economy would come to a standstill.

To let off the greedy loan speculators with out penalty is egregious. They made the loans without prudence because they knew they were going to turn the notes leaving the certain failure of the borrowers to be dealt with by some one else, ultimately by us, we the people.

I for one will be watching closely as to what penalties they will suffer, as well as to what the government is going to do with the barrel full of rotten apples that they used our grand children's credit to buy.

It is ironic that the same people who are against single payer health care because it is "socialism" are jumping up, and down with glee, and approval at the most socialistic acts of our government perpetrated in several generations. Who would have thought that would ever have been done by a Republican administration?

I heard somewhere today (and I paraphrase) that just as there are no atheists in the foxholes, there are no libertarians, or free marketers in times of financial panic. It is a "run to mommy, make it all better" moment for the most stalwart corporate profiteers.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Sep 20, 2008, at 2:30 AM

While I consider myself an independent, I am shocked in this election year by the number of twists and turns the Republicans have taken to try to win this election. For example, they claim Obama has endorsed sex ed for kindergarteners, when in actuality, he said children of that age group should be taught to report inappropriate touching by adults. Wow! No one but a pedophile would argue with that! I also read a letter to the editor in the Kansas City Star that said Obama should be ashamed of himself and apologize for insulting McCain. Apparently, the author of the letter believes the reason McCain can't e-mail is because of his war injuries. I believe his war injuries keep him from raising his arms above his head. Unless he is composing e-mails from the floor and raising his arms to touch the keyboard, I don't think that's the real reason. It shocks me that they think Americans are so gullible that they'll buy this stuff!

John McCain needs to take a lesson from Bob Dole, another war hero who ran for president. Dole didn't let his injuries serve as an excuse for everything. He also didn't constantly harp on why his severely damaged arm should qualify him to be president!

While I am leery of all politicians, I've got to hand it to the Republicans. This political season, they get the prize for dirty campaign tactics!

-- Posted by oneofmany on Fri, Sep 19, 2008, at 11:37 PM

How sad it is the there are folks out there who want us to accept their wild, extremist "interpretations" of legislative bills that, when read, bare no resemblance what so ever in any form or manner to the "intepreted' version the "interpreter" has given us.

Thanks, Ray, for giving us your wild, right-wing extremist version of these California State bills, but frankly sir, after reading the actual California State Legislature bills on the website posted by Kathy, your "interpretation" of these bills seems to border on outright, intentional deception -- self-motivated by a highly partisan, Republican agenda.

Ray, despite the obvious fact that your intention is based on your desperate fear that a party not your own or to your liking might actually bring much need and desired change to the Office of President in our Nation, I fail to see how posting such obvious propaganda can further your cause. In fact, may I suggest sir, the it has just the opposite effect on this voter. I for one, find someone intentionally attempting to decieve me quite objectional and offensive. It would seem to me we have had enough of such attempts to mislead us by the Bush Administration over the last 8 years, and your attempt to continue this practice, in this or any other forum, cannot do any more than make me wonder if this is the same type of attempt at outright deception that would become the standard practice of a McCain Presidency -- which we can probably safely presume is your preference.

In short Ray, this independent voter will just go ahead and cast his vote for change instead and vote for Senator Obama and the Democratic Party.

Thanks for your very odd and extreme interpretations, but no thanks Ray. I am not buying that load of manure you posted.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Sep 19, 2008, at 10:38 PM

Response to What the f.... (very intelligent user name)


-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Sep 19, 2008, at 10:07 PM

Whew! What a week! I am still looking for someone to give me one good reason to vote Republican.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Sep 19, 2008, at 8:17 PM

I always prefer to read the documents myself, if that's possible, and figured I'd save time for everyone else. :)

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Fri, Sep 19, 2008, at 8:12 PM

Thanks very much for the link, KF. Just as I suspected after reading the post from Ray in California, he's sounding off without knowing what he's talking about.

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Sep 19, 2008, at 5:33 PM

Here is a website with the complete text of each of the bills mentioned in a recent post.


-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Fri, Sep 19, 2008, at 4:23 PM

RAY: Say it isn't so!! If that is what they're doing in California, I suggest all "right" thinking Missourians unite...lets build that wall NOW. Afterall, we might "catch" what they have in California.

Tongue firmly in cheek.

-- Posted by mFromSweetSprings on Fri, Sep 19, 2008, at 4:18 PM

Is this what America will look like under a Democrat Presidency? Here is a list of proposed legislation currently being pushed through the Democrat dominated Assembly and Senate in California - believe it or not, it's true. This is pretty typical stuff I see out here everyday.

AB 2567 "Gay Day" in public schools with "suitable commemorative exercises" for kindergarten on up

AB 2747 Nurse-assisted suicide via total sedation, causing death by dehydration within 5 to 10 days

AB 3015 Forces foster parents to teach foster children about homosexual-bisexual-transsexual "rights"

SB 908 Requires children in public schools to be taught "global warming" as fact when it's a theory

SB 1322 Allows open communists who advocate government overthrow to be public school teachers

SB 1729 Requires nurses to be "trained" to support homosexuality, bisexuality, and transsexuality

-- Posted by Ray on Fri, Sep 19, 2008, at 4:02 PM

How is it, if oil prices are down to 93 dollars a barrel we are still paying $3.55 per gal. The gas per gal should be at 2.55, we the consumer always gets ripped off.

-- Posted by mofireman on Fri, Sep 19, 2008, at 3:30 PM

Slater - Yup, that's a fair statement. Nothing ever gets easier! And I don't think your question was innocuous. Inquiring minds want to know, don't they? :)

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Fri, Sep 19, 2008, at 11:21 AM

Editor Crump and KF, the more our communication devices evolve, the harder your job becomes. Would that be a fair statement?

I can appreciate how the telephone improves the efficiency of the news business, just as it improves efficiency in all other aspects of our lives; however, inserting an innocuous statement regarding phone number availability in certain instances is superfluous to me.

But, this is one reason why you folks do what you do - to answer insightful questions, along with the innocuous ones like the one I raised. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Sep 19, 2008, at 11:04 AM

Slater - the lack of a phone number points up another problem reporters run into quite often. Many people are opting out of landline service, relying only on a cell phone. That takes them out of the phone book and out of the reach of reporters who have questions. It's really been a surprise to me, as a rookie in the newspaper business, how often people I really need to talk to are nowhere to be found!

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Thu, Sep 18, 2008, at 9:35 PM

I'll take your word for it, Eric, but it seems irrelevant to me, unless our stellar legal system is responsible for requiring such information to be part of the news report.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Sep 18, 2008, at 9:00 PM


I read the AP article about the 13-year-old boy whose bicycle was stolen while he was inside at a deli, and how he got on eBay and found a bicycle for sale that matched his.

He turned over the information to the police, who arrested the seller.

The article ended with the notation that the 17-year-old boy who was charged was released to his parents, and, "There was no telephone listing for the boy's address..."

I see this kind of notation in many news articles and wonder just why it should matter to the reader if there is or isn't a telephone listing, or whether a person did not respond to phone messages left, etc.

Is this "journalistic technique" actually being taught in schools?

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Sep 18, 2008, at 8:29 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
It's been a long time since I've been in school, so I better not try to speak for today's journalism schools. But I can tell you, just from a practical standpoint, that it's a way of showing readers that an attempt was made to contact someone who everyone should expect would be a source for the story. You can't always hold a story until a source responds (because some never will). Including "attempt to contact" info in the story is a way to assure readers that the reporter tried to be fair and balanced, even if it didn't work out this time.

notgvasht - I don't WAAAAAA and I refuse to live in fear of the big bad world, refuse to be intimidated or scared by thugs who get strung out on meth and decide to vandalize my neighbors and myself. I hope I NEVER have to use my handgun but if it comes down to me or my family getting hurt, at least I am prepared to do so. You need to read the news more if you think crime only happens in downtown LA. In fact - read on the Democrat News online about the Shepards in Marshall and you might rethink your decision. I live on a 100+ acre parcel on Lake of the Ozarks so am secluded except for a resort neighborhood a mile away. The crimes are usually committed by friends of friends, etc who come to the lake on weekends, see expensive homes with expensive "toys" and think they can steal anything they can sell and no one will notice. My handgun is in a "handgun safe" with a coded key pad for entry. I have grandchildren so don't take any chances of "accidental" shootings so it is locked up when I don't have it on me. We also have an abundance of copperhead snakes so 38 bird shot works well on those. The shame of it is that I had to spend the money to have an alarm system installed but being in the country I don't have the luxury of a police officer within minutes of my home so if that alarm goes off, it is my legal right to be armed to protect myself and I have no hesitation to do that.

I hope you stay safe and are never victimized. Maybe the thugs will go next door where the family is armed. I for one give money to the NRA which will continue to lobby to keep that right for those of us who want it so maybe everyone will rest easy.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Thu, Sep 18, 2008, at 4:40 PM

I know what you mean about killing for sport. I guess that's why I wasn't upset when I discovered my guns were gone. :)

I took up the bow (the old recurved model) and became fairly proficient with it but didn't go hunting. Target shooting was fun enough.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Sep 18, 2008, at 4:39 PM


I love to target shoot. Went rabbit hunting once, don't have it in me to "kill" for sport. But, I can do a mean pattern on a cardboard cutout target. ;-0

-- Posted by missy08 on Thu, Sep 18, 2008, at 4:01 PM

Gal 66,


-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Sep 18, 2008, at 3:35 PM

Missy, after you've bought fresh ammunition and are ready to use up the old stuff, please don't point the gun in my direction. :)

I used to go down to the river near Glasgow and shoot at snakes with my pistol. If I lived back in that area I'd still be doing that I imagine.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Sep 18, 2008, at 3:34 PM

I have my ccw. I don't carry my gun often but I have been known to. My gun is locked up at night (which is probably stupid).

This is not the same world that it was 40 years ago -- or even 20 years ago.

I am not paranoid, I am careful and alert. I am not aggressive but I refuse to be passive.

-- Posted by missy08 on Thu, Sep 18, 2008, at 3:25 PM

AF Wife, the issue of gun control is a never-ending discussion, is it not? The right of ownership is protected by the Constitution, so as long as the Constitution says anyone can have a gun, no problem.

I used to have guns, when I was young - a rifle, 2 shotguns, and while in the Army I bought a pistol at the rod and gun club on base. While I was gone my mother sold the shotguns and gave away my rifle. She didn't like guns. Three years after I was discharged from the Army I sold the pistol to a police officer when I was working for the KCMo police department, and now I no longer have any guns. I probably could have used one the day the juveniles broke in the house. I was here, upstairs when they kicked open the front door, and they made a hasty retreat when I yelled at them as I headed downstairs. A detective said it was too bad I didn't have a shotgun that day. I can't picture myself shooting anybody in that circumstance, unless I knew without a doubt that my life was in jeopardy.

In most cases, parents of children who commit crimes with guns should go to jail along with the kids. It's one thing when the guns are locked up and the kids still manage to get at them, and another when the kid walks into the closet and picks it up off a shelf.

Yes, it's an inflammatory topic that can only be properly dealt with after the legal system is put into order.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Sep 18, 2008, at 3:20 PM

Gal66, Question 35 is part of a survey, and surveys are almost exclusively multiple choice, with the exception of certain questions being what's called open-ended and you supply a written response, like in one or two sentences; since the question offers a choice of responses, it's in a multiple-choice format. Therefore, only one answer is acceptable. If this was a survey to determine where he or others stand on the issue of gun control, Question 35 and all other like questions answered in the same manner would be deleted from the total responses among all surveys completed. He may be in favor of all three but he can't choose more than one response.

Whoever put this into circulation doctored it before doing so.

You can verify what I've just said about survey formats by calling the Social Sciences department at any college.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Sep 18, 2008, at 2:44 PM

WTF first if I vote Republican that is my busness I sure don't need you to tell me is's OK.

And just how do you know someone is not coming to get my guns if the right people are elected?

The answer is you don't period!!!!

They better think twice before they try!!!!!!!!!!

On question 35 I see it as he supports A, B & C

He would like to have A but if he can't get that he supports B & C.

I also have my CCW permit and carry my side-arm and because of some medical history of metal illness in my family I had to jump thru a few more hoops that most.

I do not lock my hand-gun up at night because it's of no use locked up.

Yes all the rest of my guns are locked-up.

-- Posted by Gal66 on Thu, Sep 18, 2008, at 2:20 PM

Regarding gun control: I have my CCW permit - took the class, had the background check, registered my gun when I bought it and did not mind at all waiting about 45 days to get it all back, and pay annual dues to the NRA. I do carry it with me. My handgun is locked in a safe next to my bed at night. All hunting rifles are registered and in a locked safe. All this at a cost of several thousand dollars. This is what you do to keep the school incidents from happening - be responsible and proactive. It's a shame this is the lengths I had to go through for the comfort in knowing that if needed, I can protect myself, my home (castle law), and my family in the case of agression from some armed thug. I don't think the party in control makes me any safer. Convicted felons can not legally carry or own a weapon but they don't respect the law anyway so it doesn't matter. I am all for law abiding citizens having the legal right to have the security and training to protect themselves. If I am ever told to turn in my guns (handgun included) - I will not willingly do so but since I did all the above, I will be one of the first told to because it is on record exactly what guns I have. So much for law abiding..... I am more concerned with a justice system which gives criminals more rights than the victims have. Personal experience - neighbors robbed, thugs were hiding on my property, caught and arrested, pled guilty, bailed out the next day, back in my neighborhood bragging and threatening, but no one in the neighborhood can approach them without being prosecuted for harrassment. Guys commited a felony but in a plee bargain, reduced to misdemeanor and laughed that they got probation so would do it again. Not sure any politics will help this so am glad I can protect myself.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Thu, Sep 18, 2008, at 1:14 PM

OKReader, here's a link for Gallup's answer to your question about cell phone numbers and polls:


-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Sep 18, 2008, at 11:18 AM


People argue that the Constitution gives the individual the right to bear arms. My feeling is that the intent was to say that all citizens, during times of armed aggression, have the right to protect themselves and their possessions. On the other hand, the wording does give every person the right to possess firearms.

It's a dilemma with no definitive solution in terms of gun control; therefore, individuals on either side of the political aisle will respond esstntially in the same manner - some favor it, some don't.

What do you do to prevent the tradegies we've seenoccur at schools and in public places when some mentally deranged person gets a gun and starts shooting? Do you just say, oh well, it'll always happen no matter what? You might say, something needs to be done to keep "people like that" from getting hold of a gun. Obviously some form of detection needs to occur in the effort to prevent incidents.

Arguing for or against gun control is like arguing about religious beliefs. I don't expect either candidate to have a sound argument for or against, and it doesn't have anything directly to do with politics, although some of you will want to argue with me on this point.

Both candidates realize the gravity of our trend toward allowing citizens to carry their guns around with them, the potential for disaster because of that, and that has nothing to do with being Democrat or Republican.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Sep 18, 2008, at 8:57 AM


By all means vote Republican because the way things are going you are going to need those guns. No one is coming to your house to take your guns and if those wanting to aquire more guns have to jump through a few more hoops then so be it.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Sep 18, 2008, at 8:44 AM

Gal66, take another look at question 35 and tell me if it makes sense the way it's worded and the way it's been answered. It looks doctored to me. Choices A and C oppose each other, yet thee's a Yes answer to both.

No, it looks too phony to me.

I'm not saying that Obama hasn't given more than one answer to a question, I'm just saying that this document has been altered.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Sep 18, 2008, at 8:32 AM

On this topic --

I keep hearing that ad on the radio with the "former football player" talking about Obama. Ad states that the "Hunters and Shooters" have endorsed Obama. I found a bunch of info on this organization but thought y'all might be interested in reading a couple of these.....




-- Posted by missy08 on Thu, Sep 18, 2008, at 7:54 AM

2008 Democratic primary debate in Philadelphia, April 16, 2008: on Gun Control

Barack Obama: Ok for states & cities to determine local gun laws

Q: Is the D.C. law prohibiting ownership of handguns consistent with an individual's right to bear arms?

A: As a general principle, I believe that the Constitution confers an individual right to bear arms. But just because you have an individual right does not mean that the state or local government can't constrain the exercise of that right, in the same way that we have a right to private property but local governments can establish zoning ordinances that determine how you can use it.

Q: But do you still favor the registration & licensing of guns?

A: I think we can provide common-sense approaches to the issue of illegal guns that are ending up on the streets. We can make sure that criminals don't have guns in their hands. We can make certain that those who are mentally deranged are not getting a hold of handguns. We can trace guns that have been used in crimes to unscrupulous gun dealers that may be selling to straw purchasers and dumping them on the streets.

Source: 2008 Philadelphia primary debate, on eve of PA primary Apr 16, 2008

Barack Obama: FactCheck: Yes, Obama endorsed Illinois handgun ban

Obama was being misleading when he denied that his handwriting had been on a document endorsing a state ban on the sale and possession of handguns in Illinois. Obama responded, "No, my writing wasn't on that particular questionnaire. As I said, I have never favored an all-out ban on handguns."

Actually, Obama's writing was on the 1996 document, which was filed when Obama was running for the Illinois state Senate. A Chicago nonprofit, Independent Voters of Illinois, had this question, and Obama took hard line:

35. Do you support state legislation to:

a. ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns? Yes.

b. ban assault weapons? Yes.

c. mandatory waiting periods and background checks? Yes.

Obama's campaign said, "Sen. Obama didn't fill out these state Senate questionnaires--a staffer did--and there are several answers that didn't reflect his views then or now. He may have jotted some notes on the front page of the questionnaire, but some answers didn't reflect his views."

Source: FactCheck.org analysis of 2008 Philadelphia primary debate Apr 16, 2008

-- Posted by Gal66 on Thu, Sep 18, 2008, at 7:25 AM

Joe Biden: The Voice Of Anti-Gun Experience

Friday, September 05, 2008

Last week, we highlighted the enormous differences between vice presidential nominees Sarah Palin (R) and Joe Biden (D). Most people are saying that Barack Obama chose Biden as his running mate to compensate for his own lack of experience. After all, Obama has been in the Senate since only 2005, while Biden has been a senator since 1973, when Obama was 11 years old. But few in the Senate have as much experience as Biden in attacking our Right to Keep and Bear Arms.

Just like fellow Democrats Edward Kennedy, Charles Schumer and Dianne Feinstein, Biden has voted for, and actively pushed, major anti-gun bills, including those:

Banning semi-automatic firearms;

Banning hunting, sporting and self-defense ammunition;

Banning magazines holding more than 10 rounds; and

Imposing a waiting period on handgun sales.

If you would like to read the rest here is a link


-- Posted by Gal66 on Thu, Sep 18, 2008, at 6:59 AM

Heh heh heh, I see I went off on a tangent and didn't say what I intended to say.

Simple enough, though. It's always amazed me that a woman would embrace the Republican philosophy when it's a clear contradiction to do so. I have a dyed-in-the-Republican-wool sister who presents the same non-arguments for voting Republican. She has this thing about being against big government, when I don't think she even knows what that means. I'm a good brother and just let her rant, then tell her she's all wet. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Sep 17, 2008, at 10:03 PM

I agree, Many. Some people try to say that race isn't an issue, but we've already heard reports to that end.

The Republicans were quick to whine about sexism, and were justified to some extent. I'm going to digress here for a minute because I want to say what amazes me about the Republican party crying foul when the party has ALWAYS viewed women as second class, women and minorities. If you looked around the convention hall in Minneapolis, you saw very few women and minority delegates.

Some news people have mentioned the race issue, but I don't know if anyone in Obama's camp has brought it up. I know Obama won't talke about it openly, for obvious reasons, but I want to believe that he's a bigger person than that anyway. Maybe not, but that's what I want to believe.

Thanks for the link, Many.

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Sep 17, 2008, at 9:40 PM

Slater, what a great article about turning the tables on the candidates. For anyone on the fence, this has got to be food for thought.

Here's an interesting link that describes how the Republicans have hired the top terrorism prosecutor (who recently resigned from the Justice Department) and have sent a dozen attorneys and researchers to Alaska to try to stop the "troopergate" investigation. Sarah Palin is not cooperating with the investigation. So much for her "I have nothing to hide" philosophy.


-- Posted by oneofmany on Wed, Sep 17, 2008, at 9:22 PM

I can't vouch for everything stated in this Op-Ed piece, but I certainly do affirm the author's viewpoint:

From Letters to the Editors @ Fort Worth Star-Telegram - today

How racism works

What if John McCain were a former president of the Harvard Law Review?

What if Barack Obama finished fifth from the bottom of his graduating class?

What if McCain were still married to the first woman he said "I do" to?

What if Obama were the candidate who left his first wife after she no longer measured up to his standards?

What if Michelle Obama were a wife who not only became addicted to pain killers, but acquired them illegally through her charitable organization?

What if Cindy McCain graduated from Harvard?

What if Obama were a member of the "Keating 5"?

What if McCain was a charismatic, eloquent speaker?

If these questions reflected reality, do you really believe the election numbers would be as close as they are?

This is what racism does. It covers up, rationalizes and minimizes positive qualities in one candidate and emphasizes negative qualities in another when there is a color difference.

- Kelvin LaFond, Fort Worth

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Sep 17, 2008, at 3:59 PM

New Girl, the first thing I saw when I opened the link were the words, "This is a rush transcript..." What that does for O'Reilly is let him blame the typist for any inaccurate or misleading statements, and it tells me that this transcript will be full of "typos." I was hoping to hear a taped transcript of the conversation, then I would know exactly what took place.

I don't listen to Fox news because when the owner, Rupert Murdock, says his employees will report the news the way HE wants it reported, that automatically leaves me out, since I'm interested in facts and not opinions.

That's the way I view Fox news reporting. That may be unfair to some Fox reporters, but I prefer the Lehrer News Hour on PBS for my news.

If you want to compare the plans of both candidates, you can get neutral information about every issue from the League of Women Voters. Type it into Google search and look through all the sublinks that will appear under the main LWV link in the search page. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Sep 17, 2008, at 2:17 PM

Slater, maybe I did misunderstand. This is the interview that I was talking about.


It didn't sound fair to me.

-- Posted by new girl on Wed, Sep 17, 2008, at 1:27 PM

New Girl, you've misinterpreted what Obama said about income equality. He proposes to make adjustments to the tax brackets in order to give low and middle income taxpayers a break. This would be done by adjusting upward the tax rates for people earning in excess of $250,000 annually.

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Sep 17, 2008, at 12:12 PM

Reader 101, prep football in Texas is a serious sport to many people down here. The local tv stations have reported that some coaches are paid $100,000 or more, and that the majority are paid anywhere from $75,000-90,000. I don't know how accurate this information is, but it's reported during the newscast, so we should accept every word as fact. Right? (smile)

I don't obsess over this stuff; to me it's absurd and that's it.

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Sep 17, 2008, at 11:13 AM

I see by an article in today's Washington Post that McCain has rejoined the Republican party, so that should seal his fate.

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Sep 17, 2008, at 10:45 AM

4.) What makes you think after the last 8 years McCain will really do anything to secure our borders unless that means the continuation of no bid contracts for to his contribuors for an fence that can't work.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Sep 17, 2008, at 10:11 AM

1.) No one is going to take your gun,period. If you are wanting to aquire an automatic weapon then there is nothing wrong with you having to jump through some serious hoops to do it.

2.) I don't want to pay more taxes either but if we have to in an attempt to offest our record deficit the we have only the republicans to blame.

3.) Mr. McCain has been in Washington for 26 years and most notably the past 8 where he marched in lock step 90% of the time with the Bush Admin. Don't forget he was a key figure in the Keating 5 and the huge savings and loan scandle. If you aren't aware what that is you may want to look it up.

So again I ask for 1 good reason to vote republican.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Sep 17, 2008, at 10:08 AM

I will be voting for McCain for 3 reasons --

1) I like my gun.

2) I don't agree with increasing taxes to "equalize income". (Obama admitted to this on a FOX interview -- either O'Reilly or Hannity -- earlier this week.)

3) I believe our borders should be secure.

Those are my reasons.

-- Posted by new girl on Wed, Sep 17, 2008, at 8:01 AM

I still have more faith that Obama will surround himself with people who know what they are doing and will listen to thier council. I feel if McCain is elected he will only listen to Phil Grahm, who by the way if you wanted to point the finger at one person who has created this mess it's Phil Grahm. I am also still waiting for someone to offer one good reason why anyone would vote to keep the republicans in. Just one viable reason is all I ask because for the life of me I can't think of one.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Sep 17, 2008, at 7:01 AM

For those of you in a fret about incomes of various folks and the state of the economy, it's all tied to bank liquidity. Do you really think Obama or McCain understands any of this?

Thanks to the Draconian accounting principles that govern our world, the auditors are forcing institutions to value their loan portfolios at nearly zero. My mortgage, your mortgage- your neighbor's mortgage- all being booked at nearly zero even if they are performing loans. The "new" accounting standards require a valuation based on the "bid" of the asset not the intrinsic value. Hence, the monster write downs.

So, when banks have to write down the value of loan portfolios, more capital is required as reserves against losses and defaults. Now, guess what happens when a bank sets aside capital in its loan reserves? the amount they set aside becomes taxable income, that's right, taxable income.

So, as it stands today, banks have to write portfolios of loans down to nearly zero, set aside more cash for loan reserves, and then pay taxes on the money they set aside. Hence, the freezing up of our whole finance structure.

Here's the oversimplified solution. First, the banks need to be allowed to carry good loan portfolios with some value. They need relief from these Draconian accounting principles. I heard one journalist refer to it as "Death By Accounting".

Second, they need liquidity from the FED so they can make loans and therefore make money.

Third, they need relief from the tax treatments when they increase their loan reserves. This will loosen up capital and help the economy get back on track. The subprime mortgages have created a daisy chain of infection for the performing mortgage pool.

Any idea of further taxing business's especially banks will make matters a lot worse. If you want your financial health to improve, vote to reduce taxes on business's. Remember, business's don't pay taxes, their customers do.

I hope this helps to understand where we are today.

BTW, what is the difference between Sarah Palin and Dick Cheney? Lipstick

-- Posted by White Tornado on Wed, Sep 17, 2008, at 1:48 AM

Division 1 coaches make the big bucks, but not the coaches of the many smaller colleges and universities in this area. Going to a Mizzou game in Columbia will cost you around $40 a ticket too.

As for the high school coaches, there are no high school coaches in this area that are making a 6 figure salary. The only high school coaches that possibly would be making that kind of money would be at some of the prep schools in larger cities, like Kansas City or St. Louis.

-- Posted by Reader101 on Tue, Sep 16, 2008, at 9:24 PM

You're so right, KF. These high school football coaches around here in in the 6-figure salary. The head football coach at the Univ.of Texas makes over $2 million per year. Outrageous and absurd!

We're going to Waco to see the Missouri-Baylor football game in November (my daughter is a Baylor graduate) and the tickets are $40. apiece! I could be easily persuaded to stay home and watch it on tv.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Sep 16, 2008, at 6:59 PM

As long as we're on the subject of outrageous salaries, how about the money dished out to college coaches and sports figures? That's pretty outrageous, too, and one of the reasons it's no longer possible to take your children to a professional sporting event without taking out a second mortgage (assuming you can find anywhere to get such a loan).

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, Sep 16, 2008, at 6:17 PM

Thanks Missy. Hmmm...poor Katie took a pay cut to leave CBS (I think that's right - seems she was offered/signed a deal for $17 million).

More of the outrageous!

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Sep 16, 2008, at 3:21 PM

Okay, last post on this subject --

this from 2007....

..."Couric makes around $15 million a year. Over at NBC, Brian Williams is making around $10 million a year. Charlie...sorry, Charles Gibson? He has the most buzz right now but he actually makes the least, around $8 million a year. He didn't get a raise (nor did he want one) when he made the jump from Good Morning America to ABC World News (though I assume he'll get one when his contract is renewed in two years)."...


-- Posted by missy08 on Tue, Sep 16, 2008, at 3:21 PM

Matt Lauer -- $12 million

Meredith Viera -- $10 million


-- Posted by missy08 on Tue, Sep 16, 2008, at 3:17 PM

Well, the first thing I found was this --

Katie Couric has an annual salary of $15 million.


-- Posted by missy08 on Tue, Sep 16, 2008, at 3:13 PM

Those are good suggestions, WTF. I'm going to ask my federal representative about it (his response should be interesting).

Speaking of tax-filing day, I never could understand why we have only one filing day per year, when the IRS is open 12 months out of the year.

AF or Missy - while you're looking, see what you can find for network news anchors salaries.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Sep 16, 2008, at 3:02 PM

Thr problem with those big time contributors is that they are hedging thier bets, playing both ends towards the middle and donating to both parties. Speaking of something totally unrelated, what would it take for us voters to get a few things of our own on the national ballot, such as our own version of compaign finance reform, giving the President a line item veto and finally a national referendum to move election day to the first tuesday following April 15th (Tax day) Just a thought.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Sep 16, 2008, at 2:53 PM

Hmmm...Univ. of Calif. and Harvard. Tuition must be out of line at those schools.

These are somewhat surprising figures, AF! Does it give the dates covered by these contributions?

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Sep 16, 2008, at 2:43 PM

United Way salaries have been a thorn in my side for years. The KC chapter pulled away from the national level several years ago because people (myself included) stopped giving and started complaining. I feel the same way about most "not for profits" unless I know the money is going where it really needs to be.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Tue, Sep 16, 2008, at 2:41 PM

Hey Kathy,

I found this online -- don't know how reliable. Will keep looking but it looks like both candidates have received money.


-- Posted by missy08 on Tue, Sep 16, 2008, at 2:39 PM

This is from opensecrets.org.

Obama top 5 contributors:

Goldman Sachs $689,280

University of California $531,070

JPMorgan Chase & Co $449,671

Citigroup Inc $411,504

Harvard University $407,452

McCain top 5 contributors.

Merrill Lynch $298,413

Citigroup Inc $269,251

Morgan Stanley $233,272

Goldman Sachs $208,395

JPMorgan Chase & Co $179,975

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Tue, Sep 16, 2008, at 2:38 PM

Now you're seeing how greed has played a big role in this mess, AFW. You can find numbers like this for all top execs of large corporations, except for the guy who started Costco. He claims he takes "only $1 million" for himself. That was revealed when he was quizzed about the salary and bonue paid to the head guy at yahoo a couple of years ago. I don't remember that figure except to know that it was astronomical.

Salaries and bonuses have been increasingly out of control for several years, and these dogs will have to settle for a lot less in the future if things are to be put back right.

Did you hear or read about the outcry over the salaries of United Way agency heads? I think the highest was the guy in charge of the Colorado United Way Agencies, at a little over $450,000. annually.

How anyone can think salaries like those you cited can be justified is beyond my comprehension.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Sep 16, 2008, at 2:36 PM

I just found this on reuters regarding Fannie Mae. Mr. Mudd is President & CEO.

"For 2006, Mr. Mudd received a bonus of $3,500,000 and a long-term incentive award of $9,999,947. His total salary, bonus and long-term incentive compensation for 2006 was $14,449,947." 2007 total salary and bonus was over $12,000,000. Let him bale the company out instead of the government! Obviously he wasn't doing a very good job.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Tue, Sep 16, 2008, at 2:18 PM

"When the music..." how about citing your sources for the information you gave on campaign contributions from Fannie and Freddie?

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, Sep 16, 2008, at 2:11 PM

What the f....I have questions about the integrity of ALL politicians AND their backers. From personal experience, I am just more familiar with the Chicago players. Too many politicians are tools for the wealthy to get their way.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Tue, Sep 16, 2008, at 1:53 PM

WTF, I believe that most everyone in positions of authority lacks integrity or even common decency, I'm sad to say.

I was thinking about a historian's remarks concerning FDR's 19436 acceptance speech. He went out on platform with his leg braces in place, reached down to shake the hand of a delegate, and fell, sending his speech flying. He got help getting up, got his speech back in order, and gave what most historians believe is the greatest acceptnce speech ever. The next day there was not a single word in any paper about what happened to him the night before.

That's the major difference between people back then and people nowadays, I think.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Sep 16, 2008, at 1:01 PM

It seems that most every politician coming out of Chicago has that cloud of uncertainty surrounding them, thanks to the long-standing influence of Daly, sr.

I know many people have a biased opinion of Obama, but what I try to keep in perspective is that he grew up being outside of both black and white cultures, and I believe much of what may be rumored about him has a basis in his search for an identity when he was younger. I'm not one of those who says of the criminal, Oh, that person was forced into crime because of an environment. Baloney, I say. People choose a path based on their innate characteristics - if they have the right stuff they'll turn out okay, no matter what kind of environment they came from.

Obama is similar to some of the Hippie leaders who were so openly opposed to government and societal constraints, but in later years became part of the so-called establishment. Obama has gone through his period of self-examination and has come out the other end no worse for wear.

I have a much greater confidence in what the Democrats can do to fix our problems.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Sep 16, 2008, at 12:24 PM


Do you have problems with John McCain's integrity or those who back him?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Sep 16, 2008, at 12:23 PM

Slater - thank you. My husband will be home for a short leave next month then back overseas.

When the Music...that is interesting. I will have to research that some more. We lived in IL when Obama was running for Senate so I kept up on the local stuff. He has a lot of Chicago backing - most of questionable character. That's my biggest concern with him.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Tue, Sep 16, 2008, at 11:59 AM

One answer is that they're both Democrats, therefore, they aren't well-heeled like Republicans. heh heh

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Sep 16, 2008, at 11:55 AM

and how much are you talking about?

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Sep 16, 2008, at 11:53 AM

Music, what was the money used for?

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Sep 16, 2008, at 11:53 AM

I lined up behind Biden early on, when he offered the only real plan for ending the Iraq conflict, even though I was pretty certain he didn't stand much of a chance. Most of those guys don't succeed if they don't show strong the first time out, and that's the way it was with Biden, even though I've always believed he's one of the good guys in Washington. One of the other good ones was former Senator Julian Bond (D-Ga), who quit because of all the unethical nonsense that goes on up there.

I believe you're absolutely right about a Obama-Clinton ticket. It IS too bad that they had so many differences that got in the way, maybe primarily due to Mr. Bill. I know all along I thought the press was being unfair to Hillary and spending too much time focused on Obama, and that's what Bill C. was seeing, also. It's so hard to separate out the emotion of things, even when it's for a greater cause.

If you read my "editorial" about the 20/20 interview then you know what I think about that. I'll always believe that McCain mortally wounded himself by picking Palin, and it's not because of who she is or her personal circumstances. I really think he stood a much better chance if he'd picked someone with a longer-lasting appeal.

I hope your husband gets home soon, safe and sound.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Sep 16, 2008, at 11:49 AM

Here's an interesting detail I heard this morning concerning the whole Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac deal; a list of those who had received more straight cash-money from the to mortgage lenders over the past 20 years showed Chris Dodd, the senator who said he'd like "more information" on the subject (after previously saying things looked pretty darn good), was at the very top of the list. That's total over the past 20 years, not just one specific year, or and average of high and low years.

But what I found even more interesting (and maybe this means nothing at all), but the guy in second place of all politicians anywhere in the U.S., the guy who received second most money over the same period (even though he only received actual money for the last three years), total second place for money received from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac was ... Barack Obama?

Wait, shouldn't there be Republicans at the top of this list? This doesn't make any sense. Or maybe it makes more sense than anyone really wants to acknowledge.

-- Posted by "When the Music Plays..." on Tue, Sep 16, 2008, at 11:48 AM

I agree on the flame burning out. I thought she was a fresh new face but her interview on 20/20 wasn't impressive. Too scripted. I'm anxious to watch the Biden - Palin debate. The sad part for Obama is that I don't think Biden was his best pick. I can't stand the Clintons but I really think had Obama picked Hillary the campaign would have been over the first day of the DNC. As for the economy - I agree about the greed. I wonder what the officers of these failing companies were making for doing a very bad job of management.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Tue, Sep 16, 2008, at 11:07 AM

AF Wife, I know how you feel, but I'm keeping (well, TRYING) a positive outlook.

The picturue is very bleak indeed, but, according the the brains, it could take as long as 3 years for the fixes to get things back to where they need to be.

What they were saying last night is that the feds have been relying on certain financial institutions for input, the very people whose businesses are now failing, so it's pretty clear that our current economic path is taking the country in the wrong direction. It seems the financial community has been advising the feds that the turn in the economy is dependent upon a turn in the housing market, and that's been a false notion.

The regulators have been looking the other direction, letting the institutions do as they saw fit, the institutions have beenmisleading the investors, saying their financial future is bright, and all of this has resulted in what we see happening now.

The brains believe that this could have been avoided if people hadn't been so greedy.

McCain has admitted he's short on economic expertise, and from what we've had the past few years, I can't see the Republicans making the better choices for resolving some of this.

On the other hand, Obama has (Bill) Clinton on his side, along with Clinton's economic forces he used to balance the budget and create the surplus that Junior gave away, so if I had to pick which one has the better chance of succeeding, I'd naturally have to pick Obama.

I have a feeling that Palin is going to flame out once people begin absorbing all the details of her past political life, and McCain could end up looking the fool in all of this.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Sep 16, 2008, at 10:29 AM

Slater - I have thought the same thing - the Republicans got us into this mess, they need to get us out of it but that's a scarey venture too. I'm still undecided and even more so with the more I hear about both candidates. Also, there is no way 4 or even 8 years of change or even better leadership can fix the mess we're in now.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Tue, Sep 16, 2008, at 10:08 AM

Did anyone watch the Charlie Rose program last night? He had some economists on talking about the bleak economic future.

If I were Obama I'd almost be willing to let McCain dig his own grave.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Sep 16, 2008, at 9:30 AM


Huffington Post? "Opinion site from Arianna Huffington. Features a collaborative blog with contributions by celebrities, opinion journalists, authors, editors, and more."


-- Posted by missy08 on Tue, Sep 16, 2008, at 5:54 AM

Despite the denials of Mr. McCain and Ms. Palin, she does request earmarked funds for Alaska. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB12214389...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Sep 16, 2008, at 2:15 AM

Regarding Ms. Palin's position on charging rape victims for the exam cost. First of all, the cost was $1,000.00 to $1,200.00 per exam. That is a certain discouragement to poor women who have been raped. Secondly, the city paid for them prior to Ms. Palin becoming Mayor as per the police chief at the time she was elected. Ms. Palin fired that police chief, and one was hired more to her liking. That police chief submitted his own budget for approval, cutting the budget item for rape examinations. Ms. Palin's campaign denied she knew anything about it. However, investigative reporting found the budget cut item had in fact been signed by Ms. Palin. Full details are published on The Huffington Post. Now, I will let it go.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Sep 16, 2008, at 1:12 AM

I was just looking at your forecast for tonight - clear and cool. A starry, starry night.

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 8:48 PM

Yep, I imagine it did look pretty strange. A number of others probably had very similar thoughts to yours. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 11:33 AM

I didn't see it Saturday night -- I can't stay up that late. But I did see it this a.m. It was great! Tina Fey was great! Loved it!

-- Posted by missy08 on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 11:12 AM

Okay, let's add a little levity! Did anyone watch Saturday Night Live this week? Here's a link to the Sarah Palin/Hillary Clinton skit. Tina Fey is awesome.


-- Posted by oneofmany on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 11:09 AM

Good to hear from you, Slater. I thought I was the only one up this a.m.

Saw that big ball of fire in the sky and thought about running for cover!

Have a great day!!!!

-- Posted by missy08 on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 11:04 AM

Missy, I couldn't agree more with your last paragraph. That dead horse has been flogged plenty.

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 10:49 AM

Hey Oklahoma Reader! If you read the original post -- the article states that Palin didn't agree with the practice. Remember she was the Mayor. I assume she had aldermen or councilmen or some other "governing body". Not a one woman show. Without reading the minutes from every meeting, I doubt that we could determine if she actually "sat on her hands".

Also, you missed the part where I said that I didn't agree with this either. My question was, if that practice was wrong, then what is right?

Nothing was dodged here. Some things were stated as fact that absolutely were not.

In one of the links that I posted previously, the recommendation was for the state to pay a "percentage" of the bill. Again, I'm not saying that is right either.

AFW had a legitimate argument regarding the false reports. That is a whole other issue that is time consuming and costly. Again, to taxpayer expense.

Have we not buried this one? It is obvious that you (and others) believe Palin was wrong but we don't have all the facts and I doubt that we ever will.

-- Posted by missy08 on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 6:07 AM

Slater: You are correct regarding the location of Humphrey's. They had great ice cream.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Sep 14, 2008, at 11:27 PM

AFW and missy08: Congratulations upon your successful completion of an artful dodge.

News Across made the point that Ms. Palin sat on her hands for four years, and did nothing although she knew that rape victims in her little town were charged for their rape examination. You switched the argument to who should be charged for the cost of rape examinations, even stating that if the victim did not pay for it then the tax payers would have to do so. Off in that direction went the ensuing discussion.

Now, back on point, I ask the both of you again what is your opinion of Ms. Palin's omission? Do you not find it at the least insensitive? Why do you think she took no action? In my opinion it is at the least callous disregard for the well being of some citizens of the community she governed, and an indicator as to how she might serve the citizens of our country.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Sep 14, 2008, at 11:21 PM

YEAH!!! It's a tie between What the f...'s mud puddies and News' no. 2 definition!

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Sep 14, 2008, at 10:55 PM

Hahaha! I give up, OKReader! Keep in mind that some of my memories are the product of a dopey youth. heh heh

I can't for the life of me figure out how I got them backwards, but at least you've cleared that up.

While we're at it, would I be right in calling that little coke bar that was on the north side of the square Humphrey's?

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Sep 14, 2008, at 10:50 PM

A "newt" is like a salamander or what we used to call "mud puddies" when I was a kid.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Sep 14, 2008, at 10:44 PM

Slater: You definitely have the names of the two primary theaters in Marshall confused. It is the Auditorium that was, and remains a block east of the square, across the street from where the Elmer Hare Ford Agency was. It was the Mary Lou that was a block north of the northeast corner of the square. The Mary Lou was the location of the various concerts, including Stan Kenton.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Sep 14, 2008, at 10:03 PM

ooh ooh ooh!!! I know slater, I know!!!

1: any of various small salamanders (family Salamandridae) that are usually semiaquatic as adults

2: a slimly, sneaky lizard known for loosing its position as speaker of the House of Representitives when it tries to make a political circus out of a sitting President's indiscretions and then resigns in disgrace when it turns out that he, the lizard, has been unfaithful to his own wife -- just like the President he attacked!!

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Sep 14, 2008, at 10:03 PM

Anybody know what a "newt" is?

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Sep 14, 2008, at 8:57 PM

Yes WTF,

Clinton was impeached by a Republican House of Representitives who appeared to be motivated by a desire to embarrass the President and the Democatic Party.

However, President Clinton was found to be 100% not guilty by the Senate. He was completely exonerated and served the remaining 2 years of his Presidency with great honor and distinction -- finishing his term of office with an approval rating of 65% -- the highest end of term rating of any President since World War II (http://uspolitics.about.com/od/polls/l/bl_historical_approval.htm).

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Sep 14, 2008, at 8:35 PM


Your arguement doesn't really hold water. If it can be proven that someone made a false report then charge them for the rape kit because at that point that will be the least of thier problems as filing a false report is serious business. It seems as if you want to assume every claim is false so therefore just charge the victim for the cost of the test right from the start. My point is that the cost of all other evidence collection falls on the taxpayer so why should this be any different? Again, if it can be proven the claim is false then by all means collect the money from the alledged victim. BTW,Clinton was impeached wasn't he?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Sep 14, 2008, at 7:56 PM

Air Force Wife

Its too bad for you that you only read half my essay...but hey, that's life!

If you had read it entirely, you would have learned that I pay even more tax in the United States since I moved to Australia than I did when I lived in the USA.

As far as my American citizenship goes, well yes that is as it is. It is not up for dispute nor can it be. Once born an American, we are always American -- thanks to liberals like me who have served in our armed forces and the 14th Ammendment to our Constitution.

As far as lies go -- some lies cost thousands of American lives -- and yes those lies are far worse than a lie about a discreet affair.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Sep 14, 2008, at 7:36 PM


AF Wife, I agree that a lie is a lie, but obviously the distinction is in the consequences.

I suppone some day the American people will know without a doubt whether Bush misled Congress and the public in order to invade Iraq; however, I'm not so sure that Bush is out front on all the controversial matters anyway. As president, Bush is accountable for the actions of his administration, but I have a greater suspicion of Cheney than I do of Bush. Just because Cheney may very well be the real bad guy doesn't excuse Bush in any way, but no one is going to press this issue, so we only give ourselves localized pain by arguing the matter.

Of greater concern to me is the state of our economy. When Bush leaves office, the projected budget deficit reported this past Friday is $550. billion. We don't know yet what the shakeout from absorbing the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac obligations will be; the automakers are getting $25. billion to do the work they were supposed to have done 4 decades ago (a small sum in the grand total, of course) and we're still left with fossil fuel-burning clunkers; tax incentives have moved jobs out of the US by the tens of thousands, and on and on and on.

When the head guy starts with a clean slate and money in the bank and then eight years later leaves behind the economic shambles and a multi-billion dollar deficit, it doesn't take a mathematician to figure out the party in power obviously isn't very good at knowing how to spend money, and it doesn't take much logic to know that our country is on the brink of financial collapse. The question is, how can any rational-thinking person believe that the very same party has suddenly been reborn with an entirely new philosophy when all the same players are still in control?

For me, this election is purely about the survival of this country. If you're in battle and your commander has shown signs of indecisiveness and exercises poor judgment and decision-making, you'd no doubt question and countermand any order which had the certainty for catastrophe. I'm sure your husband would agree with me. Unwavering allegiance without sound tactics and strong leadership won't win many battles.

This country is in a battle for survival because of where indecisiveness and poor leadership has put it; I've done the math, as they say, and the sum doesn't equal four more years of Republican leadership, no matter what their claim is regarding "change."

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Sep 14, 2008, at 7:03 PM

news across: I have to admit, I read about 1/2 of what you wrote and stopped. Too long, too much detail I don't care about, and too much of the same. There are millions of Americans making well over 82,000/year. Once per year, we travel internationally on vacation. I have been around the world several times. I know what it cost to live in other countries. In your essay you lost the original point that was made - you said you paid taxes in 2 countries but didn't point out the income exemption and the fact that taxes paid to your host country are deducted, etc. etc. It is the same for people who have second homes in a foreign country and the US being their primary. States do the same thing for people who have second homes in another state or live in one state yet work in another. Taxes don't make a person more or less of an American. I never questioned that - don't care.

Secondly - I guess you think some lies just aren't as bad as other lies. A liar is a liar, no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Sun, Sep 14, 2008, at 5:36 PM

Massachusetts School of Law at Andover is planning a public Academic event I think some of your readers may be interested in. The Subject is the legality of some of the policies put into place and carried forward by the Bush Adminstration over the last 7+ years.

You good folks may be interested in reading about it here and there is a very informative video as well.


-- Posted by news across on Sun, Sep 14, 2008, at 4:51 PM

Ok..some interesting posts and I will try to make this short and sweet...and please excuse any typos I might make, I am sure by now you know I am the king of typos.

Air Force Wife,

Most people who live in Europe and other Western Nations tend to make a much higher salary than do many people in the USA. They don't necessarily live any better standard, but it tends to cost a lot more to live in Europe and many other Western Nations than it does in the USA and so they require higher salaries. Its the same in Sydney. A house that might cost you $80,000.00 in Marshall would run you around $300,000.00 to $400,000.00 in Sydney . In fact, the Sydney Morning Herald ran an article last year which pointed out that in their estimate a person needs a minimum income of about $100,000.00 a year to live an average middle class life here in Sydney. At todays exchange rate that would be around $80,000.00 USA. And many Sydnysiders make far more than that -- my wife and I being no exceptions. In fact, my wife and I do quite a bit better than that. So what happens is this. You make a much higher income than you might in the USA but the dollar does not go as far -- not nearly as far. Our gas prices here, for example, have been about $5.00 a gallon for several years now -- sometimes a little less, sometimes a little more, but about $5 a gallon. Its my understanding that its even higher in Europe. So while we may make salaries that are very high relative to the average salary in America, its also very expensive to live here which is the reason for the extremely high salaries.

However, the US Internal Revenue Service makes no allowance for this other than to say that our first $82,000.00 of earned income is not taxable. Well that's good, but when one has an income far in excess of $82,000.00 a year or even more than double that amount, one might very well end up paying more in taxes in terms of US dollar amounts to the US Government on money never earned inside the USA than they did when they actually lived in the US. I would say that clearly makes them equivalent to the tax payer they were when they lived in the USA, wouldn't you? So yeah, its nice to be able to deduct the first $82,000 but it sucks to end up paying the same or more in taxes to the USA than one did when they lived in the USA -- and get nothing for it -- nothing -- and then to have to pay taxes to the host country as well. As I said, that is the price one pays for living overseas. So you see, I am just as much an American taxpayer now as I was when I lived in the USA and in dollar amounts -- more so.

As far as social security goes...please...I paid into the American Social for over 36 years -- and I expect to get my money back as promised me by the US Government. I don't expect to see it just disregared as if it never existed as the Bush Administration proposed in their "reform" proposal they tried to shove down our throats.

So you see, Air Force Wife, in no way have I mislead anyone.

As to your comparison between Mr. Bush and Mr. Clinton. Yes they both lied and they were both wrong to lie. However, that is where the comparison stops.

Mr. Clinton did lie on television to the American people. Its something he should never have done. In my opinion, he should have simply said, "Yep I did have relations with that young woman and that is between me and my wife and none of your business and now I won't answer any more questions about it -- move on." After all, while we may find what he did morally wrong, it wasn't a crime and frankly it was a private matter between him and his wife. Nor he did not commit perjury when he stated at his deposition that he did not have (a certain word that means a certain type of) relations of an adult nature with that young woman. When he answerd the question he reminded Mr. Starr of the definition they agreed to prior to his deposition as to what the word used to describe that relationship meant. Under that agreed to definition, he was correct and being truthful. Since perjury must meet 2 elements -- it must be an intentional lie and it must be material to the case, his testimony was not perjury. His statement was truthful based on the agreed definition of the word used in the question at his deposition -- a word I will not use here in this forum to protect any children that may be reading this comment. In addition, his answer would not have been material to either the Paula Jones case or to the Whitewater matter as it had occured long after both of the subjects of those cases had allegedly occured and had nothing to do with either. So under the legal requirments of proving perjury, Mr. Clinton clearly had not broken any laws. He had done some morally wrong things but he had broken no laws. He was tried by the US Senate and found to be NOT guilty of any crimes -- and rightly so.

In Mr. Bush's case, he did commit a crime. In fact, he committed quite a few crimes -- but the one I will focus on right now has to do with his lie. Mr. Bush lied to Congress. We are not talking about the muddy waters of perjury, agreed to definitions, or fine lines but rather a straight up intentional lie to Congress in order to obtain a Joint Resolution of War from them. Lying to Congress is always a crime. To intentionally state as a fact something one knows is absolutely and completely untrue to Congress is a crime. There are no if, ands, or buts about that one. However, unlike Clinton who was impeached and tried by the Senate -- giving the American People their day in Court and an opportunity for justice, in the case of Bush the American People never got their day in Court nor did they get an opportunity for justice.

In addition, Mr. Clinton's statement was never material to the case Ken Starr was investigating and Mr. Starr knew that very well. In Mr. Clinton's case it was all a big political show trial meant to embarrass Mr. Clinton and the Democrats for political purposes and nothing more. No one died as a result of Mr. Clintons statement and no one was physically injured.

However in Mr. Bush's case over 4000 good American soldiers died -- soldiers who might be alive and well today if not for Mr. Bush's lie -- and over 20,000 others severely injured. In addition, the United Nations has estimated over 1 million innocent Iraqi civilians have died as a direct result of being bombed and shot by American weapons -- 1 million innocent civilians who might very well be alive today if not for Mr. Bush's lie. Under any other circumstances, we might be calling that genocide -- and all based on a lie. If that is not criminal, nothing is.

I hope that clears up these matters for you.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Sep 14, 2008, at 4:25 PM

Well, KF, I'm a little embarrassed to say, considering what's happened up there.

San Antonio breathed a collective sigh of relief when it became apparent that we would escape virtually untouched - no rain, no wind, not even as much as rustling leaves.

A cool front passing by brought us a few light showers today and a welcome drop in the temperature, from the 90s to the 80s.

If you and Noah are of a mind to convert the lower region to an aquarium, let me know and I'll go round up a baby shark or two for ya!

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Sep 14, 2008, at 3:58 PM

missy08 - LOLOLOL...I'm cursing and stomping all right, you just can't see me! Luckily, that was my last trip out of the house and it wasn't too bad. The water has mostly stopped coming in and now that everything is in plastic, we're gaining on it. Yikes, probably shouldn't say that...it's looking ugly out there again. No more rain at the moment, but I hate to say it's over.

Slater - Hmmmm...you know, it's tempting to make the trade, but Noah says the giraffes are just faking those, uh, crocodile tears! Which reminds me to ask - how are YOU doing down there in Ike territory? Still got your head above water or are you using the Microsoft "Scuba" Model 377 to communicate?

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sun, Sep 14, 2008, at 3:38 PM

AHA!! So, your husband is the culprit responsible for the Out-of-Stock signs above the Dri-Lok bins, eh?

That forced me to corner the regional market on giraffe feed.

Maybe we can make a trade? :)

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Sep 14, 2008, at 3:13 PM

Oh Kathy, what a good little soldier you are! Smiling and making jokes. I think I would be cursing and stomping at this point.

Hope your day improves! Good luck at WalMart -- this time of day is a beast!

-- Posted by missy08 on Sun, Sep 14, 2008, at 2:44 PM

Slater - thanks for the reminder - at least I'm not in water over my head! Yippee...heading out for more plastic boxes and doggone it, I'm out of giraffe feed, wouldn't you know?

Oh, almost forgot - if you're trying to buy Dri-Lok, forget it. My husband has cornered the market locally and in three surrounding states.

Still smiling, idiotically, of course!! :) :) :)

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sun, Sep 14, 2008, at 2:19 PM

missy08 - Thank you - just got home after buying about $100 in plastic storage boxes, just what I wanted to do today. I think you're right about the rain we got, might even be more. My 6-inch rain-gauge was full last night and again this morning shows several additional inches. I'd planned to spend the day in the basement today, figuring on doing some serious organizing. Didn't count on having to bail it out, though.

It's not nearly what they got in Houston, but plenty for me. Word of advice to all - NEVER store anything in cardboard boxes anywhere lower than the first floor of your house. On second thought, don't store anything in cardboard boxes at all.

Gotta go - I just saw two giraffes, two kangaroos, two rabbits and two frogs floating by - Noah probably needs a hot meal and a cup of coffee right about now. :)

When I get done with this mess, I think I'll take a nice hot shower - or maybe not. I don't think I can face more water today. Maybe I'll just spray myself with perfume and call it good.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sun, Sep 14, 2008, at 12:19 PM


In this time of tribulation as you work to overcome Nature's wrath, keep the words of this song circulating in your head:


-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Sep 14, 2008, at 12:16 PM

Good morning AFW.

Hope everybody is out of the water this a.m. I've heard reports of 4 - 6 inches here in Marshall. Is that about right?

I feel for Kathy. I'm not bailing but have done it before (different house -- water pipe break) no fun at all.

Have a great day!

-- Posted by missy08 on Sun, Sep 14, 2008, at 10:53 AM

news across.....

You stated "it is unlawful for anyone -- including the President to lie to Congress whether they are under oath or not. That is a serious and impeachable offense". Maybe the precedent which was set during the Clinton years to not impeachment a President for lieing has just carried over to the Bush years. If I lied to a Grand Jury I would be held in contempt and sent to jail.....

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Sun, Sep 14, 2008, at 10:37 AM

What the...you said the prosecution and investigtation into a crime is paid by tax dollars - yes they are but that is after it has been determined that a crime has been committed. Until a rape exam has been completed - there is no proof that a crime was committed. People who scream rape when it isn't rape are the ones who make it more difficult to prosecute the real crimes and make officers question the validity of a person's claim thus in some cases making the victim feel like the villain which is why many cases never get reported. It's not fair but that's what dishonesty has done to our society.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Sun, Sep 14, 2008, at 10:30 AM

news across.... your earlier posts indicated you paid the same US tax on your income made in Australia as someone living in the states. I just wanted to clarify the exception to everyone. It didn't sound like you were the expert that we now know you are. Filing and paying US taxes maintains your US rights (citizenship, voting, SS, etc.). That's only fair to the rest of us.

What the.....I won't get into who should pay what in regards to crime. I have been through it and thankfully I had property insurance to cover my losses and medical insurance to cover me. But there were still deductibles and personal time and anguish which will never be recouped. A crime is a crime is a crime whether it be rape, theft, arson, or a drunk driving into another car. Restitution comes after conviction and good luck on EVER collecting. My point was, the medical facility is going to bill the injured for the services provided.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Sun, Sep 14, 2008, at 10:21 AM

Well, good morning, everyone! Anyone else bailing out their basement this morning???

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sun, Sep 14, 2008, at 10:08 AM

Air Force Wife,

The Earned Income Exclusion only applies to the first $82,000.00 USD of income made overseas. There are also some deductions available that are not available to domestically earned incomes as well. However, any adjusted gross income above $82,000 is taxable.

I do have an accountant here and I also have a BBA (Bach. of Business Administration) with double majors in Accounting and Economics and minor in Business and I do everything I can to reduce my tax bill. Thanks for the advice, but paying taxs are a fact of life no matter where we live -- at least above $82,000.00.

Interestingly enough, there is a great deal of controversy about whether ex-patriats should be taxed at all except by the host nation in which they reside. Some argue that since such taxation could potentially be used to block immigration abroad that such a barrier could be interpreted as a violation of the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Articles 13, 14, 15. Congress has debated this issue and the Earned Income Exclusion is designed to insure that the American taxation of ex-patriats conforms with this UN Declaration.

In the end, I guess the old saying is true that there are two things in life which are certain -- death and taxes.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Sep 14, 2008, at 9:56 AM


I'm curious. You said:

"When you go to a medical facility for any reason, the patient is responsible for payment of any services. The rape exam is considered a service."

I disagree, the rape exam is the act of collecting evidence that happens to require a medical procedure to do so. If you have a loved one who dies for unknown reasons or if someone is murdered we have taxpayer supported pathologists who perform an autopsy to find out the reasons why. You should not be billed for that either because that is what they are there for.

Police protection is also a service. If the police come to your house to investigate a prowler, should they then send you a bill?

In terms of a prosecution taxpayers end up paying for investigations and evidence analysis already, why should it be any different when a rape kit is used? As a taxpayer that is one expense I don't mind footing the bill for and if there is a conviction for the rape the offender can pay restitution to the taxpayers.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Sep 14, 2008, at 9:31 AM

news across.... if you are paying double taxes, you should find a new accountant. There is a law called the "earned income exclusion". The US government does not double tax you. I hope others reading this aren't fooled into thinking you are taxed in each country. Yes, you must file in both countries but tell the whole story. MSC Money has as article which explains it in detail if you need to check it out. This I do know from personal experience.

What the f..... I recorded SNL, just watched it. You're right, Tina Fey did a GREAT impersonation. The opening skit was hillarious.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Sun, Sep 14, 2008, at 9:08 AM

News Across --

I have never visited Australia but would like to some day. Maybe we can get together and banter? I enjoy the "discussion".

Back to medical charges being the responsibility of the victim....

"As to my statement regarding the state traditionally baring the primary cost of evidence gathering and prosecution being a traditionional practice for hundreds, and in some cases, thousands of years, I stand by that statement and I would suggest that it is common knowledge."

Well, your "common knowledge" is wrong. If you present to the ED with a gunshot wound, you are responsible for your care. If you present to the ED after a car accident, you are responsible. In a bank? It gets robbed? You have a cardiac event and go to the ED? Guess who is responsible for the bill? It is an unfortunate fact of life. There may be times when you are relieved of these charges after legal proceedings but, initially, you are responsible. Trust me. Too many years as an ED nurse.

Again, I am not saying this is "right". What I am simply saying is, that is the way it is.

I am a busy girl today. Don't have a lot of time. I will check back later today or maybe tomorrow. Please do me a favor and don't try to twist this into a different argument. This has been fun but I bet we can move onto another one.

Have a great day!

-- Posted by missy08 on Sun, Sep 14, 2008, at 9:06 AM

"what the f..." when Palin was first announced the first thing I thought of was Tina Fey on Weekend Update. the resemblance is hilarious. not saying anything negative about Palin but the resemblance is uncanny.

-- Posted by in bloom on Sun, Sep 14, 2008, at 9:06 AM

Actually missy08,

It was not late here -- I live in Sydney, New South Wales, Australia.

And before you start going off your brain claiming I am not an American...blah blah blah...let me save you some embarrasement.

I am an American citizen -- born in Kansas City and raised on a farm outside of Marshall. I still vote in every Missouri/American election as I also maintain a Residence in Missouri. We Americans who move overseas don't check out American Citizenship at the door when we move to another county and yes I pay taxes on what I earn here to the United States (and an equal amount to Australia as well) -- I know that isn't fair to me but its the law.

The 14th Ammendment to the Constitution protects our citizenship when we are born in the United States. Our citizenship cannot be taken from us under any circumstances and dual citizenship does not make any difference in that either.

Just thought I would save you some time and embarrasment.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Sep 14, 2008, at 8:35 AM

air force wife,

as the links I provided show, Wasilla under Palin was the only town in Alaska that charged rape victims for the rape kit which the links also show is a tool of gathering evidence. In fact, I know of no town anywhere in America that is still charging the victim for that.

As to Bush's lying...his case is quite a bit more serious than, say for example Republican Senator Larry Craig lying about his advance on a police officer in a public washroom. In Bush's case he lied us into a major war that has cost taxpayers hundreds of billions of dollars and over 4000 American lives. In addition, it is unlawful for anyone -- including the President to lie to Congress whether they are under oath or not. That is a serious and impeachable offense -- on top of all the other laws he broke (such as Title 50, Chapter 36 and Title 18, part 1, Chapter 118).

I take that kind of behavior very seriously...don't you?

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Sep 14, 2008, at 8:28 AM

News across:

You write A LOT but don't seem to take time to really ready what other's post. I never denied that Bush lied. I pointed out that we should be thankful we have the freedom to say what we think. I have never heard of any politician who didn't lie.

As for the rape kit issue. If a person is raped, they go to a medical facility to be examined. When you go to a medical facility for any reason, the patient is responsible for payment of any services. The rape exam is considered a service. Since when does a Mayor, Government, or even a President of anything tell a medical facility what to and not to charge for?

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Sun, Sep 14, 2008, at 7:28 AM

Oh my, news, you were up late.

I believe the original discussion was about rape and evidence kits. However, you managed to turn that around (like a good liberal would) and imply that I misunderstood what you meant.

Okay, enought of this chatter. The bottom line is, neither of us agree that the victim should be responsible for the cost of gathering evidence. My postings were not intended to imply that this was the correct practice only that it had been an ongoing discussion. I believe I supported my argument. I also believe you have tried to change the argument to be something else.

Hmmmm. What office are you running for?

Too much to do today. Have a great Sunday!

-- Posted by missy08 on Sun, Sep 14, 2008, at 7:05 AM

I don't know if anyone caught the opening skit on SNL last night but it was historic. Every once in a while a person is lucky enough to witness something very unique and last night was it. SNL brought Tina Fey back and she did the most dead on fantastic Sarah Palin impression. Political quips aside, she was fantastic in her appearance, voice and mannerisms. It was absolutley hilarious and I look forward to more as this election season draws to an end.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Sep 14, 2008, at 1:52 AM

To all my good friends in Marshall:

I was watching the weather channel and see were Hurricane Ike, now tropical depression Ike, is curling up through the Midwest: Arkansas, Missouri, Illinois, Indiana. Dang, but it looks like you folks are getting a real "gully washer." It looks very large and wet on the Doppler radar.

I remember one storm from when I was a kid were the rain was so heavy that the creek banks on our farm were full to the brim and sure death for anything that fell in. I only remember one storm like that.

I hope everyone is safe and stays safe.

We haven't seen a drop of rain here in Los Angeles since April (as best I recall) and may not see a drop for another month or two. That's a fairly normal thing in this place. We go so long without rain that our TV newscasters actually remind Los Angelinos, "Please don't take river rafts, surf boards, doors, canoes, or other flotation devices into the Los Angeles river during a rain storm." Many years we have a drowning or two from just such behavior.

As for me, I just take pictures of our concrete lined river then stare at them, as the sun bakes us mercilessly all Summer. Thank God the cooler days of Fall are here for Los Angeles and the nicest time of the year, Winter is just around the corner.

Again, please everyone "stay safe."

Sincerely, Ray Blumhorst

-- Posted by Ray on Sun, Sep 14, 2008, at 1:16 AM

Yes slater, my wife and I had a wonderful time at the dinner/dance Friday night -- it was worth every penny -- and I am a man who keeps track of his pennies!

It was a beautiful Spring night with a beautiful field of stars in the night sky. Of course, being Australia, it was warm and comfortable.

The first half hour we all had drinks in the courtyard under the stars. By the way, Lachlans is in the Old Government House in the suburb of Parramatta. Its the first building ever built in Australia and it sits right smack dab in the middle of Parramatta park and so it is surrounded by these lovely, very old, and very tall gum trees. It is a beautiful old building of Georgian architecture. It was built in the 1700s right about the time our American Colonialists ancesters were fighting to free our people from the tyrranical rule of the first King George who oppressed America. It is a lovely building and the courtyard is directly behind it with the Markee just behind that. We had drinks out there under twinkling stars and dim lights and mingled with the other guests. The Australians are very sociable people and they don't hesitate to mingle.

Then we went in for the show and it was spectacular!!! the Vov Dylan Orchestra was wonderful, as usual, and the food was fantastic. I had leg of lamb with a wine sauce and my wife had some local dish made from chicken -- but I have no idea what its called. The orchestra played while we all ate and talked under candle light.

The wine and champaign kept on coming all evening as its all included in the price -- and I made **** sure I got my money worths of it lol lol. Fortunately, Sydney has such an extensive public transportation system so we didn't have to abstain from enjoying the wine. After dinner the dancing began and people were even slow dancing out in the court yard. My lovely wife was unable to dance because of medical problems with her knee, but I made sure I lovingly cuddled and hugged her and wispered sweet nothings in her ear during the romantic music to remind her that while she may not be able to dance, she can still be deeply loved and romanced.

Then we all went back out to the court yard for more drinks and mingling while the Orchestra took a brief break. A half hour later we all went back into the Markee for more romantic music and some special guest appearances by some of our local crooners -- including one Italian chap who sang Italian love songs. The night seemed to go on forever and I guess it finally ended around 1 am.

Then my wife and I caught a cab home since we don't live very far from there and its so much more cozy than a bus or train lol. Needless to say, our little foxterrier/maltese mix dog was elated to have us back home.

It was one of the best nights out we have had in quite a while and we definately enjoyed it.

Thank you so much for asking slater!!

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Sep 13, 2008, at 11:59 PM

Those are nice words, News. Now I'll have to figure out how to live up to them. heh heh

You're quite welcome to the rain. We have plenty to spare at the moment. Actually, we got absolutely nothing from Ike. No wind, no rain, just more sunshine and toasty warm.

Did you get a good value for your $125. the other evening?

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Sep 13, 2008, at 11:00 PM

Yeah I have noticed that lately, slater lol lol.

But I also know what a **** good American you are!!!!

Its folks like you who give me hope for the future of our Nation.

By the way, Thanks for sending that rain down our way!! Its raining as I type this and the forcast is for rain all day. Lord knows we sure do need it.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Sep 13, 2008, at 10:54 PM

Well, yes, I suppose it'll still be there, unless of course the mdn is hacked.

I've been in a more philosophical mood of late, so my posts have been fluffy.

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Sep 13, 2008, at 10:35 PM

Yes I think she has slater, however my recent post is not directed at any one single person but rather is a comment regarding why I think Palin is a bad choice in terms of her character for the office of Vice President.

I do point out in my post why I think missy08 continues to support Palin despite the fact that there are some very good reasons to question Palin's fitness for office.

It is my hope in posting that comment that such will spur some thought on the part of some folks who are genuinely interested in seeing our Nation get on track in the right direction rather than continuing on a path of self-destruction.

In short, my post will still be there when missy08 and other awaken in the morning.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Sep 13, 2008, at 10:29 PM

News, I think Missy has signed off for the evening.


-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Sep 13, 2008, at 10:10 PM

It almost seems missy08 would have us believe that she does not support forcing the victims of crime to bare the cost of gathering evidence -- and I for one believe her.

As to my statement regarding the state traditionally baring the primary cost of evidence gathering and prosecution being a traditionional practice for hundreds, and in some cases, thousands of years, I stand by that statement and I would suggest that it is common knowledge.

No where in any of my posts did I say that the cost of rape kits, specifically, had been the traditional responsibility of the state for hundreds or thousands of years. I merely stated that the cost of gathering evidence in any criminal case has been traditionally paid for by they state -- and yes that means us taxpayers in recent times -- and rightly so. While we may not like the cost of justice, we willingly pay these costs because we prefer justice to injustice.

Palin's refusal to speak out against shifting the cost of evidence gathering to the victim rather than the traditional practice of such costs being paid by the state, and her refusal to put such a practice to an end while she was Mayor of Wasilla, Alaska is tatamount to supporting such a practice -- a morally reprehensible character trait that this American patriot finds unacceptable in a candidate for Vice President.

As to missy08's links she posted in her previous comment, neither of those articles even begin to suggest that the rape victims should pay for the gathering of evidence in the investigation of the crime of rape or any other crime and in fact both the op-ed piece she posted and the article she posted argue against such a practice. If you will recall, my statment regarding this was that no where is the practice of charging the victim for the cost of gathering evidence regarded as acceptable, and as the former Governor of Alaska points out, only the Alaskan town of Wasilla, under then Mayor Palin's watch, charged the victim of the crime of rape for the cost of gathering evidence -- a policy that continued for 4 years while Palin was Mayor with out one single word of objection from her or any attempt to stop that policy.

As I said, I don't think missy08 in anyway supports charging the victim of crime for the cost of gathering evidence in the investigation of that crime.

However, I do think that missy08 is attempting to defend the failure of then Mayor Palin to put a stop to such a practice.

I believe missy08 demonstrates in her comments and by her own words that she is motivated strictly by her political partisianship and preference for the continued control of our executive branch of our Government by the Republican Party -- rather than being concerned with the wrongness and anti-tradtional American values issue of the dispicable practice of charging the victims of rape the cost of gathering evidence of the crime in the town of Wasilla under Palin's watch.

It is my contention that missy08 prefers to ignore the dark light such a practice under the Watch of then Mayor Palin casts upon Palin's character. I believe missy08 is less concerned with having a Vice President of good character and more concerned with the continuation of policies of a party, who over the last 8 years, has lied to us, broken our laws, tortured prisoners, and has run our economy into the ground because for missy08, traditional American notions of right and wrong are less important than is keeping the Republican Party in charge of the White House -- no matter how evil they are or have been for the past 8 years.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Sep 13, 2008, at 9:17 PM

Ha ha ha, Missy, you make me laugh - "But you know that..." Zing!!

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Sep 13, 2008, at 8:32 PM

Okay, here is one of the more recent ones....


This is an older argument....


Trust me, I know what a rape kit is.

"throughout the world"? oh, except for those countries where the victim (woman) is always the criminal.

"hundreds, if not thousands of years"?

I believe the first "rape kits" aka "sexual assault evidence kits" were developed in the 70's. That is 1970's.

Oh yeah, one little off topic thing -- it wasn't until the late seventies (79) that a man could be found guilty of raping his wife.

Keep in mind, I am not suggesting that the victim be responsible for this charge -- I was asking who *should* be responsible. The "state" translates into taxpayers.

But, you know that.......

-- Posted by missy08 on Sat, Sep 13, 2008, at 8:28 PM

News, I always put on my reading glasses when I come to your posts. heh heh

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Sep 13, 2008, at 8:18 PM


I hope your readers will forgive my habit of typos. My typing abilities are to say the least pitiful and I appologize if my typos have caused anyone any serious grief.

Fortunately though...this isn't a graded quiz....

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Sep 13, 2008, at 8:11 PM


you say the practice of the state not paying the cost of gathering evidence but rather shifting that cost to the victim of the crime "has been argued in numerous venues numerous times."

Yet you fail to cite one -- just one -- of these times in which the practice of shifting the cost of gathering evidence in a criminal case from the state to the victim is standard and acceptable practice, and then you ask me to do your research for you? Missy, you made the statement now qualify your own statement -- don't ask me to do your work for you (whatever happened to that "personal responsibilty" you pontificated about earlier?).

As regards Alaska, the former Governor of Alaska, Governor Knowles said, "There was one town in Alaska that was charging victims for this, and that was Wasilla," (page 1, paragraph 1, line 6 http://www.bostonherald.com/news/nationa....

You can also read about it here as well:


So you see Missy, its you who have failed to provide any credible source to qualify your statement. I do my fact checking and I have posted two additional links here to assist you in your fact checking.

It seems, Missy, that you are not interested in truth or right and wrong, but rather are only interested in seeing that a Party whose political agenda you agree with remains in power. For some of us though, truth, right and wrong, and American tradional moral values are more important than partisian party politics.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Sep 13, 2008, at 8:05 PM

Editor Crump, how successful were you with organizing the movement to persuade bicycle riders to wear a helmet?

I was reminded of the article you wrote a few months ago while reading about the school teacher who collided with a black bear as he rode to school on his bicycle. The collision caused the bear to roll over the guy's head, cracking his helmet, but otherwise doing no lasting harm to the old noggin.

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Sep 13, 2008, at 8:02 PM

news across

"precident and common practice" Check your facts. This has been argued in numerous venues numerous times.

But, I'm sure you know that.

Until tomorrow............

-- Posted by missy08 on Sat, Sep 13, 2008, at 7:38 PM


I didn't watch the ABC interview with Palin, primarily because interviews of this type are conducted for reasons other than to offer the viewing public substantial insight into the topic.

I divide the news into two categories - reality news, and glamour/glitz news. Gibson's interview with Palin belongs in this latter category.

Examples of reality news would be the reports from the scientific community studying the effects of global warming, and the report that the automakers have been promised $25 billion for rebuilding aging infrastructure and for the development of more efficient internal combustion engines.

Examples of glamour/glitz news are Gibson's interview with Palin, Hollywood celebrity reports, and the fall fashion designs.

Clearly, reality news concerns itself with topics directly relating to the well-being of a nation and its people.

Clearly, interviews of the type Gibson conducted are staged not for the purpose of enlightenment, but for the ratings they generate for the network; clearly, the world will not come to an end if a Hollywood celebrity never appeared nor is never mentioned on another newscast; clearly, our society would be vastly better off if the anexoric fashion industry dried up and disappeared in the winds from Hurricane Ike.

The forces can no longer differentiate fantasy from reality, and the result is a continual stream of inane hyperbole being passed off as factual, meaningful, relevant news.

It doesn't matter whether Gibson knows which doctrine currently is in place; it doesn't matter whether Palin hesitates when responding to a question. What matters is the venue. If Palin is called before the legislature, then the details would be relevant.

What Clyde Krauthammer, or the New York Times reporter, or the individual citizen thinks of that conversation is nothing more than individual opinion, the very same as your thoughts when listening to a report that Lindsey Lohan now possesses lesbian tendencies, or that layers are the look this fall.

Until we decide to separate reality from fantasy, we'll continue giving credence to the wrong subjects.

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Sep 13, 2008, at 7:26 PM

Rape kits are used as an evidence gathering tool to gain evidence to be used by the State in the prosecution of the accused rapist.

Yes, I think the state is responsible for the cost of the gathering of evidence and the cost of prosecution. That is the precident and common practice, not only in our Nation, but through out the World and has been such for hundreds, if not thousands, of years.

Surely you know that missy08.

As to Palin's position on the subject, no she never came out and made a statement saying she supported this highly unusual practice, however she did absolutely nothing to stop it, never once complained about it, and in fact while Mayor of Wasilla she never uttered one single word against it while this practice continued in the Town in which she was the Mayor -- the top law enforcement officer of Wasilla (the executive in any village, town, city, state, or nation is alwasy ultimately the top law enforement officer of that jurisdiction) and this despite the fact that the practice had been going on for the 4 years she had been Mayor before a Democrat lawmaker in the Alaska State Legislature finally put a stop to it. In addition, Wasilla, under the watch of Mayor Palin was the only town or city in Alaska which actually charged the victim for the cost of gathering the evidence to be used in prosecuting the accused rapists (paragraph 7, page 1, http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/523....

Missy, where I come from we have an old saying that is very appropriate regarding Mayor Palins silence on the issue of charging the rape victim for the cost of gathering the evidence, "actions [or in this case, inaction] speak louder than words."

How odd that you would be more concerned with whether, as Mayor, she actually came out publically with a statement condemning this unacceptable and morally bankrupt practice of charging the victim for the cost of gathering evidence, rather than focusing on the fact that she was clearly aware it was going on and in 4 years time never tried once to stop it. Nor did she condem it while it was in practice.

That fact speaks volumes to this American patriot!!

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Sep 13, 2008, at 7:24 PM

Would you bill the accused? Would you expect the hospital to eat the charge? I'm not saying billing the victim is the "right" thing to do, I'm just wanting to know who *should* be responsible?

But, the article doesn't say that Palin agreed with this practice.......

-- Posted by missy08 on Sat, Sep 13, 2008, at 6:55 PM


Some of you Palin supporters may want to take a look at this "moral" value she held dear as Mayor of the small town of Wasilla Alaska:

"Wasilla rape victims billed when Palin was the mayor"


...or maybe you think its ok for the Government she lead to treat the rape victim like the criminal...I realize that some conservatives still hold to the notion that some how the rape is the fault of the victim and not the rapist...however, I doubt that conservative "moral value" (that blaming the rape victim is ok) is shared by very many Americans these days.

Oh and smokincheata...please note this link is directly to the Anchorage Daily News -- a well established and credible source of news in Anchorage, Alaska.

A true leader would have immediately brought the practice of charging rape victims the cost of the rape kit to an end -- but not Mayor Palin -- apparently justice is not a priority with her.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Sep 13, 2008, at 6:41 PM

Airforce wife,

In some countries the President lying to his nation and their congress would be considered treason --thank God for the good liberals who fought for and founded this great Nation we live in where a President can get away with that,...eh?

By the way, do you call intentionally telling something you know to be untrue and calling it true something other than a lie? Because its a fact that Bush did just that. Where I come from we call a lie a lie...maybe you have some other word for it.

I find it interesting that you aren't bothered by the fact that George Bush lied to you and to Congress and to all your fellow Americans...but you are definately disturbed when I refer to a liar as a a liar and back it up with facts...perhaps you need to re-examine your prioties.


Before I cited that post I checked with a friend of mine who is a full Professor at the University I graduated from regarding that one particular citation. He told me that in a formal paper in his class he would not accept wikipedia as a source. However, he said that since it is well supported in its citations in this instance, since the occurance of the lie of Bush is so well known, that it is also supported by the actual memos themselves and by other sources, and given that this is not a formal essay it would be acceptable in this forum.

In addition, you may note that the other sources there that you question are in fact links to PDAs -- not editorials. The PDAs are direct photocopies of the actual memos sent to Bush and they have been authenticated. Thus they are not citations of quotes but rather are direct photocopies of the original source of the information.

I find it interesting that you seem to have focused only on links you apparently never even bothered to clik on. Next time you might actually want to have a look at them before you comment. In addition, the substance of that portion of my comment -- that Bush knew the evidence he told us supported his claim that Iraq had nuclear weapons was completely false and yet he made his claim anyway -- that he lied to Congress and you and me -- is very well known and was well established long before I posted my comment. The links to the memos were for the readers interest in case they would like to check the exact wording the CIA used to inform the President as to the inaccuracy of the statement and false-evidenced he was about to present to Congress.

Finally, to you and air force wife,

how sad it is that you are not disturbed by a President lying us into what in fact may be the most costly war we have ever been engaged in -- in terms of dollars and certainly a long war -- that has cost the deaths of over 4000 of our Nations kids -- but you are greatly disturbed by a completely accurate term I used to describe his lie -- the word "LIE." That really bothers you -- but not the fact that he lied us into war nor what his real reason was for doing so -- or you are disturbed because I cited wikipedia in a comment, despite the fact that the citation is completely accurate and supported by the actual memos themselves.

I also noticed neither of you seem to be too concerned that right-wing propaganda is being used in this forum, with out any qualification at all, in an attempt to justify the argument of the right-wing that somehow we have the right by virtue of our military might to invade other countries who pose no direct and/or immediate threat to our Nation in order to impose our will on them -- and this despite international treaties we signed and that were ratified by 2/3 of our Congress that make such aggressive force unlawful. That really scares this American because it sounds like something right out of the NAZI playbook.

And now some of you want us to support the same party that gave us Bush and the war based on the lie to continue in the White House. Some of you folks should really do some re-examining of your moral foundations -- or lack there off -- before you step into that voting booth and make the same mistake millions of Americans just like you made in 2004.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Sep 13, 2008, at 6:00 PM

Try this one.


-- Posted by broke-n-busted on Sat, Sep 13, 2008, at 3:55 PM

How did the person analyzing Krauthammer's article explain the hesitation?

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Sep 13, 2008, at 3:19 PM

I apologize for the link not working. There is an article on 'drudge.com', "Krauthammer: Charlie Gibson's Gaffe" explaining Sarah Palin and the Bush Doctrine. I watched the interview, thought she was stumbling for an answer but this article explains her hesitation. Just thought others might find it interesting.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Sat, Sep 13, 2008, at 2:45 PM

Perhaps AF Wife would be good enough to give us the substance of the content in the link.

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Sep 13, 2008, at 1:27 PM

AF Wife, the link is dead.

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Sep 13, 2008, at 12:24 PM

If anyone watched Sarah Palin's interview last night, you may find this interesting.


-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Sat, Sep 13, 2008, at 12:08 PM


I see another handout has been promised by our government with its bottomless-well treasury.

The automakers are getting $25 billion to do what the government ordered back in 1968.

The poor unfortunate souls suddenly have done an about-face on the issues of pollution control and fuel mileage. After all these years of resistance, now that they face extinction they're willing to do what they should have done decades ago.

Where will this end? Is it coming to the point where every failing business venture believes the government will bail it out?

If your children only knew what you're doing to them.

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Sep 13, 2008, at 11:31 AM

The right-wingers phrase was taken from news across post: "...right-wingers who may have served in our armed forces...". Not my choice of words. I should have noted that. Thank you for correcting me.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Sat, Sep 13, 2008, at 11:27 AM


I never referred to the military as "right wingers". That came directly from your post. GW Bush was elected.....the second time. Maybe the President should be "trained" to respect the troops as they are trained to respect them. One more thing, why do you consider any opinion that is opposed to yours as bashing? I have never bashed you. If your gonna give it it then you must be expected to receive it.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Sep 13, 2008, at 11:19 AM

Missy08 -- thank you. Sometimes no response to rebuttal is the best response.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Sat, Sep 13, 2008, at 11:15 AM

AF Wife, you're correct to a degree. Military personnel are taught to respect the rank, not the person holding the rank. There is a difference which is sometimes difficult to distinguish.

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Sep 13, 2008, at 10:46 AM

Hey AFW -- some people just don't get it.

One of the great problems is that people refuse to take responsibility. I absolutely love the ad on the tv that says something about owing the IRS money and how this particular "service" can "fix it" so you only pay a small percentage. Hello??!!When we bought our house, we knew we had to pay for it. When we go to the doctor's office, we know we have to pay the bill. WE have to take responsibility for the economy and for our country. Some are trying to work to fix it and some are continuing to play the role of victim.

My two cents. I'll sit idly by and wait for the screaming to start. No, I won't respond to the rebuttal but thank you in advance for providing it.

Have a great day!!!

-- Posted by missy08 on Sat, Sep 13, 2008, at 10:43 AM

Everybody up there okay today? You were having about at much trouble as the Houston-area people.

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Sep 13, 2008, at 10:42 AM

What the.....

I said Thank God...giving people rights and freedom... which allows you to say what you want. However, I don't appreciate our military being referred to as "right-wingers" or in any other negative terms. I remember the harsh crowds VietNam vets encountered when they came home in the 70's. I just want to point out that people should respect the military and be glad we have them.

I also want to note that part of military training is to respect your commander. The highest ranking commander is the President of the United States. We don't have to agree with him but he was voted in by the people and as a military family we believe he does deserve some amount of respect.

Go ahead and bash me with rhetoric for this post. I heeded Eric's request and typed this response 3 times before posting so my response to my next bashing will be: blah blah blah.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Sat, Sep 13, 2008, at 10:13 AM

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Sat, Sep 13, 2008, at 10:30 AM

news across,

I believe you need to examine the factuality of the sources you used in your post, before you point your finger at our President.

Any first year college student would know that a well-researched paper does not cite Wikipedia as a source, as you so blatantly did. In fact, many college professors would throw a paper that cites Wikipedia in the trash automatically. Perhaps the only reliable source you cited was one from MIT.

-- Posted by Owl12345 on Sat, Sep 13, 2008, at 10:23 AM

Air Force Wife,

You said: "Thank God for all those right-wingers who served in our armed forces giving people rights and freedom thus allowing a citizen to call our President a liar. In many countries that would be considered treason and a person could be severely punished."

So let me get this straight, we are supposed to be thankful to our military(which I am by the way) for protecting our freedom of speech as long as we only use it in a flattering manner towards our president? No, it doesn't work that way.

The fact is our President is a liar and his administration has committed treason. You can wrap yourself in the flag all you want but it doesn't change those facts. I applaud your husbands service and feel sorry for him and all of our soldiers who are forced to do the bidding of a liar and a traitor. You may choose to see my views as unpatriotic however I feel just they are just the opposite. Our country and especially our govt. is not perfect no matter how much you choose to believe otherwise. Blind faith is dangerous and only gets people killed. 9/11 was and enormous tragedy and because of our govt's knee jerk reaction we have 4000 plus troops dead and countless innocent Iraqi's dead. I wonder who Iraqi's see as the terrorists? If the US was invaded, unprovoked by by another country, do you think people here would act the same as the insurgents have over there? I believe we would. What has good has come from the Iraq war? 10 Billion a month that we are getting on credit while while Haliburton, KBR,Blackwater and the like are making obscene amounts of money while our soldiers barely make ends meet.You talk of serious consequences for treason in other countries while our very leaders who commit the very same offense and worse will walk away with absolutely no accountablility whatsoever. As long as people like this remain in power they will use fear to keep us in a perpetual state of conflict, conflict that may never be resolved but it will mean that war profiteers will continue to rake it in while people like your husband are paid mere pennies in comparison. If you want to believe all the BS that is your right but there are many like myself who are sick and tired of it. I know that your husband is in Afghanistan which I feel is a justified operation and should have had our full attention all along sans Iraq. I hope he makes it home safe and well and is never deployed in harms way because of lies. Have a good day.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Sep 13, 2008, at 9:53 AM

RESPECT, Does anyone know what this means anymore? I have encountered so many DISRESPECTFUL people lately, I just don't understand what is wrong with people anymore, Here are a few things that happened to me in our town of Marshall, Several months ago, I was in a funeral position heading south on Odell St. people just kept driving they didn't stop for the oncoming funeral position we got to the intersection of Odell and College, a car just about hit the Hurst, this vehicle was going east on college and wasn't going to stop at the stop light, and we get on out on the hwy and cars are just a passing us, We were TAUGHT that when you see a funeral position that you pull over, not these days, what a shame, The other day I was driving down the road and came across a young boy, I would say he was 14 or older, he was walking in the street with a sidewalk to the right of him, he did not bother to move, there were cars coming from the other direction and cars behind me, he turned around and looked at me and turned his head back around and continued on walking in the street, I get around him and go probably 2 blocks and encountered a group of 4 teenagers again walking in the street, and it's also raining, the one girl, turned and looked at me, and again I was stopped for oncoming traffic from the other direction, this young lady, started laughing, and they would not get out of the road, I have a real big problem with this, when I was a child growing up, we were TAUGHT not to do this, and to RESPECT OTHERS, But I guess the parents these days are afraid to discipline their children for the fear of being turned in for child abuse, there is a difference between child abuse and beating your child, so therefore the children are not learning what respect is, I have seen so many children running all over their parents because they know they can, I believe that parents should be able to discipline their children, but they cant, but if a child goes out into this world and gets in trouble, then the system either wants to send them to boot camp so they can be TAUGHT a lesson, or the child ends up on probation, or even going on further up to prison, what would be so wrong with letting parents do what is needed instead of all that is going on in this world today? It never hurt me and my siblings to get a spanking, but in today's society, children know that if their parents try to be in control all they have to do is report their parents, I understand that yes, there has been child abuse going on and the people doing it does need to be reported and action needs to be taking against the abuser, but come on people, what is our world going to be if someone doesn't get control of this, if you ever take the time to look around, and listen to the news, it seems that there are so many more BAD children than good anymore, What does this tell you, Maybe others might not agree with me, but this is my own personal opinion and I just wanted to share it with others.

-- Posted by marshallmoresident on Sat, Sep 13, 2008, at 8:41 AM

Thank God for all those right-wingers who served in our armed forces giving people rights and freedom thus allowing a citizen to call our President a liar. In many countries that would be considered treason and a person could be severely punished.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Sat, Sep 13, 2008, at 8:24 AM


While right-wing propaganda videos might be entertaining and might even be somewhat interesting, the personal opinions of right-wingers who may have served in our armed forces really have very little relevance to the issues at hand.

For example, a right-wing veteran arguing that our unprovoked attack on a 3rd World Nation, that is and was no direct threat to American National security, has resulted in some changes to the political and/or social order of said 3rd World nation that is consistant with changes we in our culture may like to see, it fails to address the underlying moral and legal issue of a pre-emptive war launched against that 3rd World nation when that nation was no direct threat to our National Security.

Simply put, while the World has many governments and dictators that we would like to see replaced with good representitive democracies, the fact is we are not authorized by the United Nations or by even a simple majority of the World's nations to be the World's policeman. Nor do we have the authority to authorize ourselves to be the World's policeman. Might does not make right. We are but one Nation amongst hundreds of nations around the World and, much like people, all nations are equally sovereign. The responsiblity for the Government of any given nation is the exclusive responsibility of the citizens of that nation. No leader can rule any country with out the consent of the masses. No matter how large that nation's military may be and no matter how well armed, if the entire population of a country decideds to overthrow its government that government will not and cannot stand.

So thank you for posting cute, right-wing propaganda videos for us -- but that does not change the fact that we are not the World's police.

In the end, it remains a fact that we attacked Iraq based on a reason laid out to Congress by George Bush in his 2003 State of the Union Address. That reason he stated was because he, George Bush, claimed he had intelligence evidence and proof that Iraq had a nuclear weapons program and that Iraq probably also had completed nuclear weapons which he, Sadam, intended to use on the United States. In short, Bush told the joint session of Congress that the United States was in direct, imminent danger of a nuclear attack from Iraq (http://edition.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/01/28/sotu.transcript/).

We later learned that in fact Iraq had no nuclear weapons and no nuclear weapons program. We also learned that the CIA had told Bush in a series of memos that there was no evidence what so ever of any nuclear weapons in Iraq and that the evidence Bush was about to cite as proof that Iraq had nuclear weapons was completely false and with out any factual support prior to his addressing Congress and making the false claims

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niger_uranium_forgeries http://www.truthout.org/imgs.art_01/ford... http://web.mit.edu/simsong/www/iraqrepor... http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/p....

Never the less, Bush knowingly mislead Congress and the American people into that war. He lied. He lied because he knew that arguments, such as the one you allude to by posting right-wing propaganda videos in this forum, would not hold water and had no legal or moral foundation. He knew that the United States is not the World's authorized policeman and that argument could not and would not legally or morally authorize his politically motivated desire to launch an attack on Iraq.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Sep 13, 2008, at 12:26 AM

This is the video site I meant to post:

Please view comments under video after watching.....


-- Posted by aen2012 on Fri, Sep 12, 2008, at 11:26 PM


-- Posted by aen2012 on Fri, Sep 12, 2008, at 11:23 PM

National Weather Service has confirmed a tornado on the ground in the vicinity of Marshall Junction and moving across I-70 and Highway 65. If it holds together, it is heading for Nelson, Arrow Rock, Napton. Time to take cover, please and don't waste any time doing it.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Fri, Sep 12, 2008, at 6:06 PM

Okay, all you good folks hunker down and stay safe!!

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Sep 12, 2008, at 5:58 PM

Strong storms, capable of producing a tornado, are headed in the direction of Arrow Rock, Nelson, Napton and Blackwater. Already passing through Hughesville and closing in on Marshall Junction.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Fri, Sep 12, 2008, at 5:36 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Thanks for the heads-up, Kathy. The National Weather Service has issued a tornado warning, even:

"A tornado warning remains in effect for southern Saline and northeastern Pettis counties until 6 pm CDT.

At 540 pm CDT...national weather service doppler radar indicated a severe thunderstorm capable of producing a tornado. this dangerous storm was located 8 miles southeast of houstonia...or 8 miles north of sedalia...moving northeast at 21 mph. a rotating wall cloud was reported with this storm.

This tornado will affect mainly rural areas of northeastern Pettis and southern Saline counties."

Post Script to budget:

I misspoke about the last entry. Actually, the last two entries are projected (we're still in the 3rd quarter according to this calendar I use :)).

Missy, I'm not sure if my remark is indicative of the American way, but it's the only way I ever figured out how to learn anything. My dad tried teaching me a few things when I was young and impressionable, and although I didn't take to heart everything he said, one point did stick: nothing worth having is gained easily. If we want the kind of government that truly represents ALL of us, we'll have to make our elected representatives work very hard to see that it happens.

The sad truth is that a portion of our society is content to "follow the herd," as you expressed it. We have documentation on the Moonies of northwest US, the Branch Davidians at Mt. Carmel, TX, and the latest is this bunch out in west Texas whose subordinate members were/had been brainwashed. I don't know what characteristics people like that possess, but obviously they're either unable or unwilling to think for themselves, and that can lead to dire consequences.

People like me will always be viewed differently by those who may not believe it's necessary to spend the extra time becoming prepared, but, as I said, they'll end up cheating themselves.

And I wish you a great day!

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Sep 12, 2008, at 3:49 PM

Sorry everybody for the double post, I was having some technical issues.....Have a good weekend everybody....remember to pray for the people that are being or going to be effected by Ike!

-- Posted by aen2012 on Fri, Sep 12, 2008, at 3:43 PM

I just wanted everybody to see this video....it was not paid for by the McCain campaign..........if you view this video check out the comments that are below the video.......Freedom is not free...we must all realize the sacrifices that are being made every day for our freedoms.....

Please watch:


-- Posted by aen2012 on Fri, Sep 12, 2008, at 3:40 PM

I just wanted everybody to see this video....it was not paid for by the McCain campaign..........if you view this video check out the comments that are below the video.......Freedom is not free...we must all realize the sacrifices that are being made is day for our freedoms.....

Please watch:


-- Posted by aen2012 on Fri, Sep 12, 2008, at 3:39 PM

In a recent post I had mentioned that the GOP calls itself the party of fiscal responsibility and that the Democrats are called the tax and spend party.

Before I wrote that commentary I'd thought about those labels and wondered just how true they are, so I went looking for some numbers, and I found figures from the Dept. of Commerce, Bureau of Economic Analysis for the years 1947-2008.

My hunch was that the Republicans are actually the big spenders and the Democrats are the savers, and that's how it's turned out.

These are quarterly figures, standard accounting methhods to indicate deficits and credits. This analysis runs through fourth quarter 2008, so the last number is projected.

Don't take Barack Obama's word or John McCain's word on this. Look for yourself:


-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Sep 12, 2008, at 3:16 PM

"our obligation is to study all the neutral information available on both views before making our final decision, but if we don't do that then we cheat ourselves and ultimately our country"

Slater, that does not sound idealistic or naive. That sounds like the American way.

My patience is short with those who are un-informed and do nothing to become more educated. Those that "follow the herd" (I think that would be cows, not pigs -- see, I have a sense of humor, too!) Sometimes, you have to work to find the truth or the bottom line and not just listen to the sound bites.

There is a price to pay for everything. I just don't know how much we can afford.....

Have a great day!

-- Posted by missy08 on Fri, Sep 12, 2008, at 3:03 PM

Gal66, that's as it should be. Each of us will decide who we think is the best choice; our obligation is to study all the neutral information available on both views before making our final decision, but if we don't do that then we cheat ourselves and ultimately our country.

My reasoning is flawed, so I intend to do the best I can to know as many facts as possible about each side, so that when I cast my vote, I can do so knowing that I did all I could to prepare for that event.

I look at it as an obligation rather than a right; we're obliged to become active and properly informed. If we meet that requirement, then we have the right to dissent in a rational, respectful manner.

Maybe I AM idealistic and naive, but think how much worse off it is to idly sit and watch the world go by, never preparing to meet this kind of obligation, never caring about outcomes until they become personal. Those are the people who lose their right to dissent, as I see it.

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Sep 12, 2008, at 2:07 PM

I in the same dilemma as you Gal66. I'm still undecided because the issues I'm most concerned with aren't being addressed in depth. I know their stand but I want to know how they intend to implement it and are they being proactive to a backup in case it doesn't work. I don't want another 4 years of no progress.

But when the answers are all in radical rhetoric, telling what the opposing candidate hasn't done, that doesn't answer my questions.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Fri, Sep 12, 2008, at 1:29 PM

I can make jokes about I Like Ike campaign buttons, and how Ike moved to the right, but it certainly is no laughing matter for everyone needing to get out of the way.

Some people are refusing to leave, like the woman whose house is on the beach at Galveston. Some of those folks won't survive this one, I'm guessing.

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Sep 12, 2008, at 1:23 PM

Eric, I just want to let you know that the online Democrat is great. It is wonderful to have a resource that has up-to-date information. Thank you so much!

-- Posted by missy08 on Fri, Sep 12, 2008, at 1:23 PM


I have not made up my mind yet as to who I will vote for.

It just seemed like the info was one sided on this blog.

I have to hear both sides.

-- Posted by Gal66 on Fri, Sep 12, 2008, at 1:23 PM

It nows looks as if San Antonio will escape the main force of Ike; we're being told that winds will be gusting to 45 or so mph, and rainfall will most likely be around 1".

OKReader, if you're located in eastern Oklahoma, you may get a free car wash out of the deal. Same for you folks in central Missouri.

The storm surge at Galveston is already 6-8 feet, and tonight when the eye makes landfall the surge is expected to be 20 feet or greater.

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Sep 12, 2008, at 1:13 PM

Sorry Eric never gave it a thought.

-- Posted by Gal66 on Fri, Sep 12, 2008, at 12:09 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
No problemo. I am glad you referred us to the article.

Heh heh...I'm looking forward to News' response to this post by Gal66.

realclearpolitics, eh?

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Sep 12, 2008, at 12:03 PM

I'd like to ask a favor: Please don't post entire articles in discussion forums. Especially if the article is available on the web, just post a brief summary and the URL so people can go read it themselves. It's just a practical matter. One long post forces everything else off the page.


-- Posted by Eric Crump on Fri, Sep 12, 2008, at 12:00 PM

Words Obama Will Regret

By Ken Blackwell Realclearpolitics

September 11, 2008

On Monday, Senator Obama uttered one sentence that could haunt him until Election Day. He said of Senator McCain and Governor Palin telling voters they would bring change, "they must think you're stupid." Given his stances on the surge, social issues, and his past, Mr. Obama will regret those words.

Let's start with social issues like Second Amendment freedoms. Mr. Obama denies that he's ever supported banning handguns, right after the landmark Heller case where the Supreme Court struck down Washington D.C.'s handgun ban.

When a 1996 questionnaire surfaced that had asked if Mr. Obama supported banning all handguns, his one-word written answer was "yes." He said an unnamed staffer must have filled it out without his knowledge. Then another copy surfaced -- this one with his handwriting on it. He says he must not have read that particular question. Sure.

On the hot-button issue of abortion, last month saw a growing concern over Mr. Obama's opposition to the Born-Alive Infants Protection Act, which states if an abortion is botched and a live birth results, the baby is entitled to medical care. The federal version of this law unanimously passed the U.S. Senate.

However, when a version of this bill came to the Illinois Senate, Mr. Obama opposed it. When confronted last month with the fact that the federal version of this bill had been supported by the likes of Ted Kennedy and Barbara Boxer, Mr. Obama said the he would have supported the federal version. Those suggesting otherwise were lying, he said. Then it was revealed that a second bill was introduced in the Illinois Senate, and this one was identical to the federal version. Mr. Obama opposed that bill as well. He has yet to come up with an explanation on that one.

And there are Mr. Obama's associations. Let's start with the infamous Reverend Jeremiah Wright. Mr. Obama expressed shock that Rev. Wright would say things like "God **** America" and say the American government created AIDS to commit genocide against black people. Yet he belonged to that church for 20 years. He was married by Rev. Wright, had his children baptized by him, and even took his book title from one of the good reverend's sermons.

When Rev. Wright's outrageous diatribes surfaced, Mr. Obama refused to renounce him. Then when Rev. Wright repeated the same statements at the National Press Club, and Mr. Obama had clinched the nomination, suddenly he denounced him. Why? He said Rev. Wright's statements in D.C. were unlike anything he had heard before and he was shocked. But those statements had been in the news for months. Are we to believe that Mr. Obama had not read or heard any of the news for weeks? Or that he never heard anything similar in more than 20-years of listening to Rev. Wright's sermons? Hmm.

Bill Ayers is another stunner. Mr. Ayers bombed a police station and the Pentagon, and recently said he wished he had done more. He is an unrepentant terrorist, but is popular among the ultra-left in Chicago. When Mr. Obama was asked about Mr. Ayers, he implied that he barely knew him.

But once again facts have surfaced. We now know that Mr. Ayers hosted a fundraiser for Mr. Obama. They served for years together on a board with only a few people, and they worked closely on financial matters during those years. Does that sound like someone he barely knows?

And then we have the Iraq war. Congress authorized war against Iraq in 2002. The vote in the Democrat-controlled U.S. Senate was an overwhelming bipartisan majority of 77-23. The intelligence provided to Congress was profoundly flawed, but based on the intelligence presented, Congress voted for war. That is why those voting for the war included John Kerry, John Edwards, Hillary Clinton,and -- yes -- Joe Biden.

Yet Mr. Obama, who was in the Illinois Senate at the time and thus had no vote, opposed the war. He says that this shows his superior judgment, and that those voting for the war, like John McCain, lack the judgment to be president. But his vice presidential pick Joe Biden voted for the war, and Mr. Obama says Mr. Biden has the judgment to be president. How do you reconcile that?

And finally we have the surge. Mr. Obama opposed it, saying it was doomed to fail. Yet the troop surge has succeeded brilliantly, and all but the most dedicated diehards admit it. Now Mr. Obama acknowledges that it succeeded, but does not admit his predictions of failure were wrong. How were they not wrong?

These actions have made a pattern. Mr. Obama has changed his position on numerous occasions, cannot explain why he has done so, and yet his campaign expects us to believe that he never changed his mind on any of those issues.

He must think we're stupid.

-- Posted by Gal66 on Fri, Sep 12, 2008, at 11:56 AM

Morning Folks -

There is a great blog on dailygut.com about WHO hates Sarah Palin and WHY ...

Thought you might enjoy a little insight into this very real but somehow confusing scenario we see unfolding.


-- Posted by circuitrider on Fri, Sep 12, 2008, at 11:30 AM

A number of people have called the paper to let us know that Todd Palin, spouse of vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin, went to Missouri Valley College in the mid-1980s. Chad Jacques of MVC confirmed the school had a student by that name and Kathy Fairchild has confirmed that it was, indeed, the same Todd Palin who is first husband of Alaska.

Kathy's working on a story as we speak. Today's will be short. But we'd like to talk with anyone who was around in the mid-1980s who might remember Mr. Palin. Call 660-886-2233 and ask for Kathy or me. Or send email to marshallhealth@socket.net or marshalleditor@socket.net.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Fri, Sep 12, 2008, at 11:23 AM

OkReader, I enjoyed your little jaunt down memory lane. :) When I get into that kind of conversation with one of my old friends, he always says that his memories are what helps keep him sane today.

I was born and raised in Slater, and didn't get to Marshall much before I turned 15, so some of the information you offer is new to me, like the "old" Mary Lou theatre. I didn't know there was such a place. The only Mary Lou I remember is the one just a block east of the square off the northeast corner. I never was good at associating street names with locations. Back in those days I seem to remember that Elmer Hare Fords sales was across to the north from the Mary Lou. The last time I was on the square was in 1992, and I went in to the Rose and Buckner store to visit with Ken Lusby for a bit. Like Main St. in Slater, I expect today I'd see a marked change in the businesses around the square.

I do remember Kenton appearing at the Auditorium. That's the theatre that sat facing east about a half block north of that same northeast corner of the square, correct?

I didn't know that Brubeck had been to Marshall!! How I missed him I don't know. As I remember, the TKE's at Valley brought Kenton to Marshall, so I'll guess someone at Valley was responsible for Brubeck being there also.

It's truly amazing that such big-name talent found their way to our little spot in the universe.

Would you happen to know which Hollywood studio owned the old Mary Lou? In my later years I've discovered just how many great old movies I missed out on by growing up where I did, so the last 20 or so years I've been catching up, and thanks to first AMC and now Ted Turner I've had the opportunity to do that. A few years ago I set out to write a history of movie theatre ownership, from the beginning through the period when the studios sold them off to private interests. Since the old Kiva Theatre in Slater showed essentially the same fare you mentioned at the old Mary Lou, I would guess that Fox owned both of them.

Yep, Saturday mornings the price of admission was 5 bread wrappers or end seals from Wonder bread maybe (can't remember) to see two or three serials, then Saturday afternoons were usually the westerns - Johnny Mack Brown, Lash laRue, Tim Holt, "Wild" Bill Elliott, and others, with some cartoons, news reels, and those "One Reel Wonders" as Turner calls them.

That was a good time in history to grow up, and a good place to grow up in my opinion. Life was simple and free from worry. Even the two-man police force in Slater had nothing to do, so occasionally we'd try and manufacture things to at least keep them awake. :)

How long have you been gone from Marshall?

-- Posted by Slater on Fri, Sep 12, 2008, at 10:57 AM

Missy08 - thank you for your kind words and from my husband and my family - you're welcome. This country has endured many battles fought by people who stood up for their beliefs and I am optimistic that we will overcome this current battle. As for the number of votes - that will be tallied in November. It serves no good or purpose to project. I for one will be glad when this campaign is over. It's a shame people have to be so radical. I joined in here with a simple question. Wow!

When I was in elementary school I remember history teaching us that the Pilgrims came to America for religous freedom. Have those books been burned? As for deists, here's a statement that sums up their belief:

What organized religions see as divine revelation and holy books, most deists see as interpretations made by other humans, rather than as authoritative sources. Deists believe that God's greatest gift to humanity is not religion, but the ability to reason.

They may be on to something - but then there are a lot of unreasonable people.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Fri, Sep 12, 2008, at 10:39 AM


Get real...my vote for the Democrats nullifies your vote and we have a lot more people voting democrat after me -- I bet we have a lot more votes than you republicans do -- see the 2006 elections for more on this.

As to who built this Country...it sure wasn't one single group and sure as hell not the Christians. Most of the founding Fathers were deists -- the were basically anogstics -- and they have a lot more claim to this Country than you do -- they created this Nation. In additon, most of the physical structures were built by slaves -- whose religion along with their freedom was stolen from them...but I guess you forgot about them...no supprises there, eh missy08?

See ya at the voting booth kido!!

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Sep 12, 2008, at 10:05 AM

Air Force Wife -- first let me say, "Thank you" for the sacrifices that your husband and your entire family are making. There is no greater service than protecting our freedoms.

Second, I enjoy reading your comments. Our conservative values are similar. I will be supporting McCain and Palin with my vote. I believe that the road ahead will be rough but I also believe that we need strong leadership to get us through.

Sometimes, when reading the posts on here, I can't believe the idealism (naivete) that is expressed. No one is "entitled" to anything. No one should be penalized for achieving the "American Dream". America was built on hard work and Christian values.

Yes, this forum is for expressing opinions, and I have read everything that has been posted in this thread. I don't think it is for personal attacks. If I am blasted with negative comments regarding this post, I probably will not respond.

Have a great day!

-- Posted by missy08 on Fri, Sep 12, 2008, at 9:45 AM

It's common when discussing religion or politics: Disagreement is personal. Those of us who identify closely with our beliefs and ideologies often feel personal affront when people criticize or insult those ideas. Perfectly natural.

It's going to be more and more tempting, as we get closer to the November election, to get embroiled in personal conflicts. There are a few pretty well-worn and effective tricks for keeping the conversation on a more even keel while still giving full expression to our beliefs and ideas:

--Take a deep breath and count to 10 (or 50 or 150, whatever helps) before responding to something that makes you angry.

--Write the first thing that comes to mind, no holds barred. Then delete it. Write a more measured version of the same point(s).

--Keep in mind that blasting an opponent may be momentarily satisfying but generally is ineffective rhetorically.

Getting off a good insult only leads to return fire. Insult battles are almost negligibly effective as arguments. They divert attention from the issues at hand and generate a downward spiral of back-and-forth nastiness. Soon everyone but the combatants switches off.

Scoring points off a foe doesn't matter much if what you really want to do is influence the opinions of those reading your words.

It's not always easy to do all the above, but if we all try, I bet we'll have more interesting conversations about the issues that are important to us all.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Fri, Sep 12, 2008, at 9:27 AM

What the f....: I have never used the words "whole heartedly support" current admin, I did not direct my comment about log on names to you, nor did I say any of the names "offended" me. You have read and twisted what I wrote and took it as a personal attack which I did not direct anything to you. I don't know what "hypocristy" is but if you meant hypocrisy then am I to interpret your comment to mean "my insincerity is clear". Where have I been insincere? I have simply questioned views of others and am still looking for answers to concerns I have.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Fri, Sep 12, 2008, at 8:30 AM

Air Force Wife,

This is an open discussion forum and I expressed my opinion about an admistration that you whole heartedly support. You cry foul and call it a personal attack while simultaneously questioning the level of my intelligence because you are offended by my screen name. The hypocristy of your comments is palpable.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Sep 12, 2008, at 8:09 AM

I regret ever weighing in on these posts. I thought this was an open discussion forum but I see that the "usuals" can't stand anyone who doesn't agree with them and in turn start attacking. I should have known better just from the intelligence used in the creation of some of the log in names. I thought the base of democracy was the people having a right to question authority and speak up if they don't agree and not get personally attacked for doing so. Good luck in your future debates and God help this country no matter who wins the election.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Fri, Sep 12, 2008, at 7:45 AM

Air Force Wife,

You want to stick to the issues,right? Ok here's an issue. Our president is a war criminal and he has forced your husband and the entire miltary to do his bidding. He will never be held accountable and future administrations will never have to worry about accountability. I can't think of two more serious "issues".

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Sep 12, 2008, at 7:06 AM

Thanks Oaklahoma,

Its a lot of work to make sure one backs up their statements with facts and there is a lot at stake in this election -- our freedom and our Constitutional Democratic Republic.

However, its rare when someone is nice enough to point out that they have noticed the effort I have made to be accurate.

Thank you so much!!!

Also you may want to note that Palin, who will almost certainly be President if McCain wins -- given his terrible health record (over 2000 pages in his medical report released recently to the public) and his many bouts with cancer in recent years as well as his extreme age -- stated today that in regards to Georgia, she would not rule out war with Russia (http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,24334170-5001028,00.html).

I find this down right frightening. Even Bush stated for the record that military action against Russia was definately off the table as regards Georgia.

As you may know Russia has the second largest nuclear arsenal in the World and when measured in megatonage it is in fact the largest nuclear arsenal in the World and they definately have the missles and aircraft to deliver the nukes to their target in the USA as well the second largest nuclear armed navy in the World. Thus if Palin is true to her word and starts a war with Russia it would, with out any doubt, result in the permanent and decisive annialliation of both the United States and Russia.

If Palin's position on a war with Russia is not enough to cause one to vote for the Democrats, then I would say the USA is on an intentional path to suicide and is doomed.

and remember...don't kill the messenger -- I am just reporting it!

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Sep 12, 2008, at 1:50 AM

News: It is fun to sit on the sidelines and read sometimes. Good job. As usual you backed up what you said with facts and sources. As is usually the case the right wing posts are heavy on emotion, light on reason, and overloaded with unsupported blanket statements.

Slater: The time period I covered in my last post was the early fifties forward through the late fifties.

By the way do you remember when for some reason the Auditorium charged fourteen cents admission for kids. We used to run around bumming the extra pennys so we could visit the concessions.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Sep 12, 2008, at 1:14 AM

Slater: My slipping recall tells me that the Stan Kenton concert was at the "new" Mary Lou Theatre, instead of the Auditorium. I may be mistaken, or confusing it with a Dave Brubek concert at the Mary Lou. One thing that supports my memory is that (I believe) the Mary Lou was locally owned by Leo Hayob, and Leo used his "new" theatre for all sorts of productions.

The Audotorium was owned by the Fox theatre chain, and managed locally by Steve Souter (sp.) Other than the occasional midnight movie I don't recall the Auditorium straying far from the chain theater concept.

You will note that I called it the "new" Mary Lou. That is because Hayob's original theatre on West North Street was called the Mary Lou. Then he built his new palace so for a while they were the "old" Mary Lou and the "new" Mary Lou.

Eventually the old one became the North Street Theatre. As lowest on the totem pole it ran B movies with a heavy emphasis on westerns featuring actors like Johnny Mack Brown and Lash Larue. Johnny Weismuller's Jungle Jim and Tarzan flics were also frequent features. Hayob tried to keep it viable by charging a nickel for a small bag of popcorn whereas the other two theaters charged a dime for the same bag. It eventually failed after becoming very run down. The gang of street urchins I ran with used to joke that sometimes there was more action with the rats running up and down the aisles than there was on the screen. It got to where "decent folk" wouldn't go there.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Sep 12, 2008, at 12:54 AM

Oh slater...I really miss Austin City Limits!!!! What a fantastic show!!! We don't get that here in Australia...we are so remote lol lol lol.

However, this American stays true to his heritage...I will be the only one at the show tonight wearing Western clothes and a bolo tie.

I will be leaving my beautiful cowboy hat at home tonight though as that really would stand out lol lol.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Sep 11, 2008, at 11:52 PM

KF - Saturday night PBS, 630 or thereabouts, The 60s, My Generation! BE THERE!!!!! :)

Closely followed by Austin City Limits, featuring Arcade Fire, a Canadian group (I think).


-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Sep 11, 2008, at 11:37 PM

Slater, I wish that was my wife you see dancing there lol lol lol.

While my wife is a lovely woman, we are in our 50's and time hasn't been that kind to either of us.

Actually the young lady you see is an employee of Vov's. Vov also has a dance studio and she works for him.

But thanks for asking mate! lol lol lol lol

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Sep 11, 2008, at 11:25 PM


If you read statments by Senator Obama, you will find he echos your exact sentiments.

Oh by the way if you watch that video I posted, the middle aged violinist you will see walking with a mustache and glasses around is Vovs Dad, Evan, also a very accomplished violinist (he studied in Poland under one of the greates violinists of our time).

His son Vov is the young violinst you see up on stage. Vov began playing violin when he was 2 years old -- belive it or not -- and he is not only an accomplished violinist but at 28 he has proven himself to be quite a brilliant businessman. The orchestral is his and his Dad Evan works for him.

The place and dinner we will be at in about 5 hours is exactly the same as the one you see in the you tube video. add to that the fact that its a beautiful Spring day in Sydney and things probably couldn't be better. After all, we are a country at peace and we do have universal medical coverage at no direct cost to the patient lol.

Cheers mate!

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Sep 11, 2008, at 11:23 PM

News, was that your wife dancing to the Cole Porter tune? :)

Quite a nice place from the look of it.

Bon Appetit!

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Sep 11, 2008, at 11:22 PM

AF Wife, the term "universal" may be misleading in terms of what Obama has talked about. I haven't looked at the preliminary details,but he's proposing something similar to what John Kerry was thinking about.

Obviously there will be some cost to the beneficiary, but what that will be is yet to be determined.

However, the intent is to offer some kind of health care to every person, something more than Medicaid.

This is a tall order, to be certain, but one which can be done.

Have you studied the national health care system of Sweden? It's a model program and I'm guessing Obama has been looking at it closely to see how it can be adapted for implementation here.

We've experienced much disappointment over the past few decades, and these pointless conflicts have drained the resources to the very limit. Who can tell what will happen in November, but on the far side of that the challenges to clean up the current mess are certainly more than daunting. Nothing would please me more than to see the two parties stop all this dopey posturing and backbiting and begin working together to put things back right - honestly working together.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Sep 11, 2008, at 11:13 PM

Air Force Wife,

The 2 year continues cap on welfare and the 5 year lifetime limit is Federal law and all Federal laws are superior to state statutes. The Federal law was part of the welfare reform passed by the Clinton Administration.

In addition, my explaination about welfare was to point out that only those on welfare receive coverage of medicaid countering your claim that all unemployed people receive 100% medical coverage -- which is completely false.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Sep 11, 2008, at 10:59 PM

No slater, I am right here -- after all its early Friday afternoon and I am home practicing my violin.

However, my wife and I are going to a $125.00 a plate dinner and dance in Parramatta tonight. The Vov Dylan Orchestra is headlining -- and Vov is an incredible violinist and conductor. In addition, there will be quite a number of local Australian stars there and the food is from Lachlans, which is one of the finest places to eat in Sydney.

Here is a you tube video from Lachlands that includes Vov and his orchestra and a past dinner very similar to the one we will be attending tonight in the same marquee you will see in this video.


...and speaking of which...I need to get some clothes ironed.

Enjoy the link, mate!!!

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Sep 11, 2008, at 10:56 PM

In Missouri, there is no 2 year cap on welfare. As long as a person with a qualifying child does not have a job, that person gets welfare, medicaid, and food stamps. I am not arguing the medicaid / welfare issue with you - I have a relative (employed and was doing very well) with an 8 month old infant who has already capped out their million dollar medical insurance and is facing possible bankruptcy due to medical costs. I just don't agree that universal is the answer. Tell me what it's going to cost me as a tax payer who is already in the 38% bracket, tell me what kind of care I will receive because if there isn't any profit to be made by companies who own and operate hospitals and medical offices no one will invest in them, or assure me that it will be just as good as the care I get now when I pay for insurance (I don't use VA benefits because of the poor care) and pay deductibles and co-pays and I will consider it. None of that has been done.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Thu, Sep 11, 2008, at 10:50 PM

Air Force Wife,

NATO declined to be part of the "coalition of the willing. NATO is not in Iraq. In addition, many of the countries that at first supported the United States in Iraq have since pulled out. In Australia an entire party that had been in contol here for 10 years lost almost all their seats in parliment and lost the Prime Ministerhip directly because of that involvement in the "coalition of the willing." It seems the Australian people weren't quite as "willing" to be part of that coalition as the consevatives here were. Australia has removed its troops from Iraq.

At any rate, the US has continually made up 90% of the forces in Iraq -- making it an American action.

Further, George Bush gave Congress one reason and one reason only for his war in Iraq -- the security of the United States. In his 2003 State of the Union Address he laid out his request to Congress for permission to use military force in Iraq. At that time he said laid out phony intelligence reports we now know to be false and which he knew were false at that time -- making him a liar and his reasons for war a big lie. In addition, he told Congress that a nuclear attack from Iraq was emminent -- even though he knew very well that there was no evidence to support that claim at all.

Finally, you say that there were other reasons for us going there...a troubled middle east,... or perhaps because Saddam was a dictator...or perhaps a bunch of things -- but none directly relating to the immediate security of the United States. To that I can only say this. The United States is not authorized by the World to be the World's police nor does the United States have the authority to authorize itself to be the World's Police. Its that simple. You may also want to note that wars of aggression (wars in which a country becomes the beneficiary of the resources of the country it attacks) are illegal under International law including the Geneva Conventions -- treaties the United States approved by 2/3 of the Senate and signed by the President.

That is one of the reasons most of the World regards the United States not as the World's policeman but rather as the World bully.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Sep 11, 2008, at 10:48 PM

News is pretty quiet now. I think maybe he's gone to a concert at the Sydney Opera House.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Sep 11, 2008, at 10:39 PM

Air Force Wife,

As to your comments regarding nationalized healthcare....

You say the unemployed get their medical paid 100%. That is pure nonsense. Unemployment benefits do not include medical insurance payments nor does any one on unemployment insurance benefits qualify for welfare.

...and speaking of welfare...welfare is a system designed to be a safety net for children. The parent is the primary disperser of the funds received but the purpose of the funds is to help support the children. The welfare in most states fails at even that. The cost of one week of child care is almost twice the amount children receive in a month from welfare -- making it impossible for their Mom to both look work and have a babysitter look after her children -- and when she finds work the welfare payments end immediately. In addition, most the Southern States require that as a condition of receiving welfare, there can be no male above the age of 18 living in the household -- I bet you didn't know that did you? That is a very anti-family requirement don't you think? But I digress...in order for a parent to qualify for welfare they must 1.) have dependent children (single people with no children do not receive welfare payments) 2.) the parent must have exhausted all other financial assistance -- such as unemployment insurance benefits. 3.) the children must not have exceeded the 5 year lifetime limit on welfare. 4.) The children must not have exceeded the 2 year continuous cap on welfare. So for those children that meet those conditions, they are provided with medicaid to assist them while they are on welfare -- which at the most will be 2 years. Then they lose that medicaid coverage along with their welfare. So as you can see, most people do not qualify for medical coverage by medicaid and only folks over 62 qualify for medicare. That leaves a lot of people in the lurch.

Most of the 40 million people who have no medical insurance at all are working full time at low paying jobs that have little or no benefits. The days when employers could afford to pay for insurance for their employees is pretty much over. In fact, that is part of the problem. Anymore, most of the employers who still provide medical insurance to their employees are union shops (because the unions fight for this benefit), Federal and State agency employees, and of course folks like you and your husband -- folks in the military and their family. That leaves one hell of a lot of people with out coverage.

So some point out...well hey, if they don't have coverage they can still be treated at a local public hospital emergency room. That is true. However, the treatment is not free. The cost is enormous and way above the amount you or I might have to cover if we go see our doctor. Most visits to the emergency room begin at $1000.00 -- that is the cost of walking in the door. Then the hospital overcharges them itemized charges for everything thing they get -- I have even seen hospitals charge $50.00 per asprin in the emergency room for each asprin. A typical emergency room vist can easily cost as much as $10,000.00, and the hospitals are serious about getting their money. They will sue the recipient of the medical care and that can mean bankruptcy for many people.

And then there is the non-emergency medical care. If you go to an emergency room with a non-life threatening medical need, you can be refused. Let's say for example you notice you have a lump in your breast. If that lump is not an immediate threat to your life -- meaning you will likely die in the next 24 hours if you don't receive treatment -- then you can be refused -- and that lump goes untreated. Well...lets hope it isn't cancer, eh Air Force Wife?

So, who will pay for this nationalized medical care? We do it with taxes here in Australia. Yet our tax rates are about the same as in the USA -- a little less actually and the system works so well that we even have a Federal surplus in our Treasury. I wonder if that roughly trillion dollars you folks spent getting control of that Iraqi oil might have helped? I bet it would.

It all really comes down to priorities doesn't it? In the case of America, it would seem war to control another country's natural resources is far more important than proper and universal medical care for its citizens.

Of course, you do have a choice in November. You can choose to vote Republican and continue with the same ever worsing medical insurance -- or rather lack of medical insurance -- plan you have now, or you can vote Democrat and choose universal coverage for all Americans.

Its all up to you.

But what ever you do, don't say that nationalized medical coverage, in what amounts to every single Western, industrialized country in the World, doesn't work -- it can certainly work -- we in Australia have proved that.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Sep 11, 2008, at 10:33 PM

No - he did not attend the academy.

Here is an article some of you may find interesting. The initial reasons we invaded Iraq were "glorified" but if you read into what has happened - the positioning the invasion has given our military - there are ligitimate reasons to justify the actions taken by President Bush. Also, it is not just the United States. NATO members have joined forces and have made progress. I would like to see us succeed in Iraq and Afghanistan and be able to bring everyone home safely. No one questions the necessity of forces in Afghanistan which has become of worse of the 2 wars. Just my opinion.


-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Thu, Sep 11, 2008, at 10:23 PM

I remember reading a Dept. of Labor NAFTA job loss analysis three or four years ago, and I think their number was maybe around 850,000.

That seemed like a large figure over a short time period - 8 years maybe - but I suppose it's possible.

I thought NAFTA was doomed to failure, and my opinion is that it has.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Sep 11, 2008, at 10:13 PM

AF Wife, did your husband attent the Air Force Academy?

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Sep 11, 2008, at 9:44 PM

I did point out that I have no personal knowledge of universal healthcare - only what I have read on the internet - the majority of which was referring to the program in Canada.

As for your family's military background - Congratulations to you and your family and thank you for the sacrifices you have made. I too have family members names at the Saline County Courthouse along with a family member named on the VietNam memorial in D.C. I never questioned nor do I care if you still pay taxes in the US. That's not an issue of mine. You mentioned the cap on SS. Of course the wealthy politicians would like to remove that cap. They don't pay into SS, their salary continues after retirement. They don't have to depend on SS. I for one look forward to the month when we have reached that cap. We will never recoup the $'s we've paid in anyway. At least we can afford an IRA which is the only way we will be able to afford a life after retirement. As for voting - my husband is in Afghanistan doing what he is ordered to and trained to do. He votes absentee and has for most elections over the past 27 years. I'm thankful for that being possible. My hope is that all the money and lives that have been lost in the current war aren't a total waste by us pulling out before completing the mission we went in for.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Thu, Sep 11, 2008, at 9:37 PM

Yes Air Force Wife, lets talk about NAFTA.

NAFTA was the idea of President George Bush senior, and me and a lot of other Americans opposed NAFTA. I don't support the Democrats or the Republicans when they put bad policies into effect. I am a true independent. I voted twice for President Reagan and yes I voted for President Clinton too.

I have never expected to be 100% satisfied with the policies of any party. We don't always get everything we want but we can expect to get most of what we want if the party platform we support is represented by the party we support in any given election and if the party we are supporting in that election wins.

However, the policies Republicans like John McCain and George Bush have put into effect over the last 8 years often lay contrary to the very values we as Americans hold dear -- such as honesty and fairness, such as upholding such American values as torture is always wrong and anti-american, such as wars of Aggression in order to control other countries natural resources -- and especially by multi-national oil companies that hold no alligence to the United States but are big money contributers to the Republican's political campaigns -- is wrong, such as the Constitution being the supreme law of the land, and such American values as expecting our President and Vice President to obey our laws -- such American values as no man or woman is above the law -- yes let's talk about these things. My being opposed to NAFTA and seeing a President Clinton support NAFTA may be disapointing, but seeing an entire Party that shreads our Constitution and mocks our laws and sends our kids -- my kids -- to fight and die in wars based on lies and a party that supports clearly anti-American values -- values my family has fought to protect -- is an entirely different story.

Let's talk about a Party -- the Republican Party -- that for the last 8 years has worked hard to ship our jobs to China, India, Malaysia, Mexico, and South America. Let's talk about the high unemployment our Nation is facing right now as a result of the Republican Party's failed economic policies. Lets talk about the worst recession we have seen since 1929, and lets talk about a Party that is willing to bail out its rich supporters when their banks fail but gives not one penny to the good average folks who lose their homes in the Recession caused by failed Republican Party policies. Let's talk about a Party that proposes that we continue those same failed, anti-American policies for the next 4 years.

Yes let's talk and talk and talk about the stark differnces between these parties now running to represent us in our Government.

Then when all the talk is finished, lets vote for change!!!

Real change -- not some abstract nonsense put out by the very party that has trashed our Nation for the last 8 years!!

Its time for new leadership in Washington and we will never get that Leadership from the same party that has created the very problems we are suffering from as a Nation.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Sep 11, 2008, at 9:18 PM

How about reminding everyone that NAFTA has had a negative affect on manufacturing in the US - thus costing American jobs. NAFTA was implemented in 1994 - during the Clinton years. The housing "crisis" has been brought about by less than reputable mortgages being handed out to people who couldn't afford what they were signing for, the mortgages being sold in "lumps" to larger banks and brokers and now the government is baling out those companies. This all started in the mid to late 90's. How quickly Americans are to forget what the Democrats did for 8 years prior to Bush. The Reps. took over a mess in 2000. It had just been covered up very well.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Thu, Sep 11, 2008, at 8:50 PM

Air Force Wife,

Let's get a few facts straight before we go any further.

1.) Although I live in Australia, I am an American Citizen -- born in Kansas City and raised on a nice farm just outside of Marshall -- I DID NOT check my American citizenship at the door when I moved to Australia to live with my Australia wife (I moved with great reservation -- having to sell the family farm I love -- a farm that was in my family for 4 generations -- because my wife is an only child and I would not dare take her elderly Parents' only child away from them -- so yes I moved to Australia but my heart will always be in Marshall) and though I will soon have dual citizenship, I will always remain an American -- no one can take that away from me -- no one, no Republican, no Democrat, no one -- that right is guaranteed by the 14th Ammendment of our Constitution.

2.) Although I live in Australia I maintain a residence in Missouri and I have the right to vote in every American/Missouri election. I am registered to vote in Missouri and have voted in every American election since I moved to Australia. Americans who live in other countries cast their votes at the nearest American Embassy electronically as is their right under the 14th Ammendment.

3.) I pay American taxes -- including social security -- every year in the United States on income I earn here in Australia -- I bet you didn't know American Federal Law requires that, did you? It does. So in fact, I pay taxes twice -- taxes to the American Government and taxes to the Australian Government. That is part of the price this American pays to honor his Mother and Father in law's right to continue to enjoy the presence of their only child in their country.

4.) I am a United States Army Veteran -- a Vietnam Era veteran -- I served my Country with honor and distinction -- even when my Country was wrong. So I know that a soldier does not make the policies or decide the reasons for going to war -- a soldier does what he is ordered to do. Wars are started by fat, old men who never fight on the front line. In the case of Iraq, this war is based on lies and has nothing to do with freedom, and everything to do with making sure that Bush's biggest Campaign contributers -- multi-National oil companies like Exxon who owe no alligence to the United States and could care less about you and me -- control Iraqi natural resources. While I am proud all 3 of my sons are serving their Country in Iraq and Afganistan, I can assure you they are not there because they think its about my or your freedom. They are there because they are soldiers and were ordered to fight in a war they do not support. In fact, if you ever get a chance, go on over to the Court House in Marshall. There is a big board on the first floor with the names of WW2 vets. There you will find my Uncle Stanley's name -- go on, have a look -- there you will see that he earned 2 Bronze Stars and the Silver Star for his service above and beyond the call of duty for our Country while fighting the Japanese in the South Pacific. In fact, Air Force Wife, there has been at least one member of my family who has served in every war the United States has ever fought including our War of Independence -- a war we fought to free ourselves from another "George" who thought he was our King.

5.) I haven't bashed the Republicans -- that would be personal -- I have bashed their polcies of the last almost 8 years now. I have pointed out facts -- such as the now known fact that Bush and Cheney intentionally lied to us regarding nuclear weapons in Iraq and how a nuclear attack from Iraq on the United States was imminent -- even despite the fact that they knew full well none of what they were saying was true. As an American, a voter, a veteran and a tax payer, I don't like anyone lying to me and especially the President and Vice President of the United States. My pointing out the complete and total failures of the Republican Party over the last almost 8 years is not bashing at all -- its pointing out how much their political policies have hurt you and me -- whether you recognize that fact or not. In addition, my pointing out another fact -- that McCain belongs to that same party and has supported those same failed polcies 95% of the time over the last almost 8 years of Republican rule -- isn't bashing him personally -- its pointing out that we can expect him to give us 4 more years of the same thing he and his party have been giving us for the last almost 8 years. That is my right as an American, Air Force Wife, and I will continue to point out facts as long as I have breath and there is nothing you or the Republican Party can do to stop that.

6.) Regarding Social Security. I have been paying into the Social Security system for well over 36 years. I expect to get my money back -- that was the promise my Nation made to me and by God I expect my Government to keep its word no matter who or which party is in the White House -- period! The Republican party proposed a "fix" to Social Security that would have meant me and most of a whole generation of Americans would have lost every penny we paid in -- every penny!! That is not a solution -- that is a failure. Perhaps if the spend and borrow Republicans would quit taking money out of Social Security to spend on a war based entirely on lies and fought to make the multi-national oil companies and their stockholders even richer, we wouldn't have such a big problem with Social Security. In addition, Obama is proposing eliminating the ceiling on Social Security taxes so that the rich will have to actually begin paying their fair share of Social Security taxes -- that is a darn good idea and would be a good start to fixing the program -- a program that was designed to be a 100% pension plan for seniors.

Finally, again, yes let's discuss the issues -- issues such as nationalized health care -- I noticed you bashed this idea in your previous post, but after I pointed out how well such a system already works in the nation of one of our closest allies -- Australia -- you became silent on the issue. How convientient your silence is for you and the Republican party you support.

Fortunately, others can scroll down and read all about it in my post.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Sep 11, 2008, at 8:46 PM

Here's a question I've intended asking for some time:

Someone refresh my memory if it's failed me, but didn't I hear Junior say upon announcing the plan to invade Iraq that the war would be financed by Iraqi oil revenues?

Hand me that stack of Bibles and I'll swear to it.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Sep 11, 2008, at 8:28 PM

I think referring to someone who doesn't agree with your political views as "stupid" or "naive" is a less than mature thing to do. Again, keep it to the issues.

As for universal healthcare, I have no personal knowledge of it - only the information I have read on the internet. I'm glad it's working for news across. My concern is, who is going to pay for all the government funded programs Obama wants to put in place? People who don't work, get 100% medical paid. People who work and pay insurance have co-pays, deductibles, out of pocket expenses yet we all get the same treatment (including illegal immigrants). I agree what we have now isn't working for those who can't afford insurance yet don't qualify for medicaid. But I pay enough taxes now. How about welfare / medicaid reform, caps on rediculous mal-practice lawsuits, drug company profits, and needless treatments which all drive up the costs of insurance. The Democrats have some great ideas but no one has pointed out how they will be funded. More information and education into the entire package would be beneficial to voters who are undecided or unsure.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Thu, Sep 11, 2008, at 8:26 PM

news across: I'm certainly glad your parents are receiving their SS checks on time and since I do live in the states, I pay that SS, pay taxes on every penny I earn, and pay taxes on every penny I spend but I don't expect to be able to live on SS when I reach that age. I said the system is "broke", not "broken". At the rate it is going, without reform there won't be any money to be paid out. Let's just agree to disagree and I'm assuming by your attitude, you are happy you don't live here. I also noticed you would rather bash the Reps. than address all the issues I pointed out.

Being an Air Force Wife, I am proud of my country and proud that my husband is part of defending our rights and freedoms. It's a sacrifice I'm willing to make. If it weren't for our military, no one would be allowed to voice their opinions of our government or of the officials elected by the people. I think today is an historical day we should all be reflecting on how lucky we are for the freedoms we have and doing everything we can to protect those same freedoms. Best of luck to you.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Thu, Sep 11, 2008, at 7:47 PM

In her recent post in the comments section, Air Force Wife, wants us to believe that this election is about two men.

In fact, its not about two men at all. Its about two completely different parties with completely different plans for America. Its about two party platforms -- the Democrat Platform that calls for seriously addressing the failed policies of the Republican Party over the last almost 8 years -- a platform that calls for signiificant change -- and the Republican Party platform that calls for a continuation of the the failed Republican Party policies that have resulted in a war based on lies, the highest National debt the United States has ever experience, and a failed economy that has resulted in millions of Americans finding themselves broke, out of work, and with very little chance of finding a job in the near future.

She cites the desire of the Democrats to rehaul our failed medical insurance system to one that guarantees that every American will have medical coverage regardless of income as a bad idea. She implies that nationalized health care in other countries isn't working yet she herself fails to cite when and where she actually experienced nationalized healthcare herself.

Take for example Australia's nationalized healthcare system.

Yes I know all about Australia's Nationalized healthcare system because I actually live here and enjoy the benefits of this Nations Nationalized healthcare system. I have always gotten in to see my primary physician (doctor) the same day I call and the longest I ever waited to see a specialist was 2 days. I never get a bill and there is no co-pay. Money has never once been discussed, and no Australians ever file bankruptcy as a result of medical bills -- because they have no medical bill. Our taxes here are the same as I paid in the USA. The Australian National Treasury has a surplus -- unlike the American deficit which was caused by the spend and borrow policies of the Republican Party.

Air Force Wife can't tell this American nationalized health care can't work -- because I know better than that -- as I said, I actually live in a country that has nationalized healthcare and I know first hand that it works great! Everyone in Australia is covered and every Australian citizen and legal resident recieves top-knotch medical care from one of the best medical systems in the World -- and at no direct cost to the patient and with out breaking the bank or raising taxes. Perhaps if the USA would spend less money on unnecessary wars -- especially wars based on lies of the Republican Party -- and spend that money on nationalized medical care, as recommended by the Democrats, then all Americans would be able to depend on proper medical care when they need it and where they need it and with out having to file bankruptcy to get that medical care.

Air Force Wife states that the Social Security System is "broken." I doubt its broken. My Mom and Dad receive their Social Security checks every month, on time and with out delay. It does need some changes, that is true, but the Republican plan which would deny me and millions of other Americans the hard earned money we paid into the system, isn't a solution.

In addition, if we had gone with the Republican plan of making Social Security more like your 401 K's, my fellow Americans would have lost more than half their investments -- and thus their social security -- in the recent downturn on the stock market. Is that what Air Force Wife calls a "successful plan?"

Air Force Wife wants the campaigns to get back to the issues. Well Air Force Wife, the Democrats have stayed on the issues. Its only the Republicans who have resorted to personal attacks and lies such as telling us that Obama isn't an American, telling us Obama is a Muslim, and telling us that Obama is an elitist.

I agree, Air Force Wife, lets get back to the issues. Lets look at what the Democrats position is on the issues -- you will find it all in their party platform.

Let's remember too what the Republicans are offering us -- 4 more years of failed Republican policies!!

That is why this Independent voter will be voting straight Democrat ticket this election!!

We need real change and we need it now!!!

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Sep 11, 2008, at 7:22 PM

Listening In: I don't know what you are referring to so why don't you just say what you're thinking. I voted for Obama in the primary - a vote against Clinton but there is no way I would vote for him for Pres. I want to thank farmer's granddaughter for putting the truth out there. During the Clinton years our military budget was deeply cut and the military numbers down so low that I'm surprised we haven't had more attacks. I don't agree with everything the Reps. or Dems. put out but if you study the records, they speak for themselves.

Should I assume that you want universal healthcare - that has worked so well for other countries who have it. Our government can't manage what it's responsible for now, why would you want them to tell you what Dr. you can go to? You better start making an appt. 3 months before you think you might get sick.

As for Social Security, it is broke. Obama opposes privitization while McCain admits that the money has gone to other government programs so wants some reform. Are you ready for law abiding citizens to give up the right to own a hand gun to protect themselves? As for education, Obama wants to reward good teachers with better pay. Who would decide which teachers are good ones? Those who brag about what they do or those who work extra hard to help the kids but stay out of the spotlight? McCain wants more responsibility put on the states - Obama wants more federal government control. These are items that affect every American. I just wish the campaign would get away from the negative bashing and focus on the real issues.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Thu, Sep 11, 2008, at 6:43 PM

Well farmer'sgranddaughter...there you go again...more falsehoods and distortions about the facts....

Folks, here are the things farmer'sgranddaughter and other Republicans don't want you to know.

1.) farmer'sgranddaughter in her comment says,..."The current Republican administration has kept this country safe! We are better off now than we were seven years ago."

FACT: George Bush knowingly lied us into a war that resulted in the deaths of over 4000 American Servicemen and women and resulted in the deaths of over 1 million innocent Iraqi civillians.

The war in Iraq had nothing to do with our safety. Bush told us point blank that the Iraqis had nuclear weapons and were ready to strike us with those nuclear weapons at any momement when in fact he had been told by the United Nations Weapons Inspectors that they could find absolutely no evidence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Further, our own CIA had fully informed the President that the claims he was about to make to the American people were completely false and totally misleading and that there was not one shread of evidence to support his claims that the Iraqis had nuclear weapons or were capable of striking the United States in any way (http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-03-02-un-wmd_x.htm http://www.nationaljournal.com/about/njw...


This war in Iraq -- which has lasted longer and cost more than World War II -- resulted in angering most of the 1 billion Moslems World-wide, encouraged Al Queda and helped them recruit thousands of new terrorists, made us the laughing stock of the World, and created the biggest record breaking Federal deficit in our history -- a bill that will have to be paid by us, our children, our grandchildren, and our greatgrandchildren for years to come. In addition, as a result of a large chunk of our troops being in Iraq, they were unable to deal with disasters here in America such as the Katrina disaster in New Orleans or the recent flooding in the Midwest which destroyed thousands of lives, billions in damage to property and lost crops. Is that what farmer'sgranddaughter considers "keeping us safe?"

Do you the voter really feel better off now than you were 7 years ago as farmer'sgranddaughter claims we are?

2.) farmer'sgranddaughter states, "We have been safe and many terrorist plots have been prevented since then, thanks to changes made during the Bush administration.

FACT: farmer'sgranddaughter does not cite one single attack that was prevented by anything the Bush Regime and the Republicans have done since 9/11 because the only thing they have prevented is your freedom, folks. The Patriot Act -- perhaps the most unpatriotic act of any Congress in the history of the United States -- severly restricts your civil liberties, virtually eliminates your rights to privacy, and gives the Government extraordinary powers to interfer in your affairs and to violate your Consititutional protections (http://www.allbusiness.com/professional-scientific/management-consulting-services/558825-1.html http://www.allbusiness.com/legal/764097-... http://www.slate.com/id/2087984/ http://www.eff.org/issues/patriot-act http://fl1.findlaw.com/news.findlaw.com/....

3.) farmer'sgranddaughter claims, "The Democrats took over both houses of the government. It was a down hill slide since that. The Democrats have insisted on their way, no matter what - hence all of the Partisan bickering."

FACTS: The Democrats were elected by a Majority of the American voters in direct opposition to the policies of George Bush and the Republican Congress and these Democrats were sent to Washington to do The People's business which they have been trying to do. That is called democracy and that is how it is suppose to work. Since then, almost every piece of Democrat sponsored legislation was either;

(a) filibustered by the Republicans and thus the Senate was never allowed to vote on the legislation,

(b) recalled because the Republican minority threatened to filibuster, and/or

(c) was vetoed or recalled because of a threat of veto by George Bush -- prevening The People's business from being voted on in a straight up or down vote as the Founding Fathers intended ( http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?tit... http://www.americanchronicle.com/article... http://seesdifferent.wordpress.com/2007/... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18412464/ http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg... http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg... http://www.newser.com/story/29890/house-....

FACT: farmer'sgranddaughter does not, and cannot, cite one piece of legislation, sponsored by the Democrats, passed by both Houses of Congress, and signed into law by the President that has been responsible for the current economic downturn or for any of the problems we face today. She can make false generalizations with no supporting evidence -- and that is all she does.

4.) In Reference to George Bush, farmer'sgranddaughter states, "...but at least he has manners, morals and an appreciation for freedom and life."

Frankly, the facts say just the opposite.

In references I cite in points 1 through 3 above we find that in fact George Bush and the Republican Party have highly questionable morals. They have lied to the American People and Congress numerous times and apparently with out any sense of guilt or remorse -- that isn't anything close to what most Americans I know call "moral." Since when is torture an American value? Since when is a Republican Senator making advances to a police officer in an airport public bathroom an American Value (Republican Senator Larry Craig)? Since when is spying on the American People an American value? Since when is a Republican making advances to male children an American Value (Republican Congressman Foley)? Since when is accepting bribes from lobbiests (Jack Abramoff) an American Value?

In addition, restricting the freedoms of American Citizens, as noted in my citations in points 1 through 3, is just the opposite of "appreciation" for freedom. Then there are the deaths of over 4000 brave American men and Women sent to fight a war based on lies -- is that what farmer'sgranddaughter regards as an "appreciation" for life? Or how about those over 1 million dead Iraqi civilians who were not part of this war and yet are dead at the hands of George Bush and his Republican Party? Is that more evidence of Mr. Bush's "appreciation" for life? I think not!

Now farmer'sgranddaughter wants us to keep the Republicans in the White House so we can enjoy 4 more years George Bush's policies.

Given the facts of the last almost 8 years, the failed policies of the Republicans over the last almost 8 years, and the Republican corruption, lies, and borrow and spend policies that have cost millions of Americans their jobs and homes and threatens to deprive millions more Americans their jobs and homes, can we really afford 4 more years of Republican control of OUR White House?

That is why this Independent voter is voting straight Democrat ticket this election,...

and frankly I wish farmer'sgranddaughter would stop trying to mislead the good people of Marshall.

I hope in the future farmer'sgranddaughter will get her facts straight and reset her priorities -- of not for her own sake...then for the sake of our Nation.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Sep 11, 2008, at 6:20 PM

We don't blame the President for the attack on the WTC; just for going to war with a country that had absolutely nothing to do with the attack. He has done nothing for the country, let alone saved us from further attack! He has done nothing but lie to the American people every step of the way, along with his self-centered vp Chaney - both of whom are oil millionaires. The war has been good for them, so vote Repub. and get what you "pay" for. It's a shame! Just admit the real reason you won't vote for Obama - go on - everybody knows anyway, they just aren't talking about it - - -

-- Posted by Listening In on Thu, Sep 11, 2008, at 4:32 PM

This is for all of you in this forum and abroad who wonder why you should give the Republican's your vote. Today is the 7th anniversary of the worst attack on the USA. While many of you blame the current President for this awful terrorist attack, remember this! Clinton was in office playing with everything in a skirt when the USS Cole and the lower level of the World Trade Buildings were attacked. Whether the attacks were from bin Laden's buddies in Saudi Arabia, Afganistan, Iraq or anywhere else they happened to be on that given day, they will attack again.

The current Republican administration has kept this country safe! We are better off now than we were seven years ago. We have been safe and many terrorist plots have been prevented since then, thanks to changes made during the Bush administration. As for the economic woes that we are facing, remember four years ago, the economy was prospering. The Democrats took over both houses of the government. It was a down hill slide since that. The Democrats have insisted on their way, no matter what - hence all of the Partisan bickering. I am not saying that President Bush is perfect, but at least he has manners, morals and an appreciation for freedom and life. Cast your vote for integrity, life, respect, values, and freedom, as well as national security.Cast your vote for someone who respects our great country and the symbols that represent our beautiful land and history. Casting a vote for John McCain and Sarah Palin will cast a vote for our future and the ideals that made America great, not Hollywood rich and elite! He is his own person and he has his own ideas about how to make America strong again. A Democratic vote for Obama and Biden is asking for more difficult ecomomic and energy woes, higher taxes and more loss of jobs,not to mention more attacks on our people and our country. God Bless America!

-- Posted by farmer'sgranddaughter on Thu, Sep 11, 2008, at 4:10 PM

If the Democrats of Saline County don't get out and vote the poll may be right. Get out there folks and make your voice heard!

-- Posted by litlmissme on Thu, Sep 11, 2008, at 3:32 PM

But keep this in mind, WTF. You can vote once daily in the MDN poll. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Sep 11, 2008, at 2:39 PM

Well, WTF, Hurricane Ike has now turned to the right.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Sep 11, 2008, at 2:38 PM

I was just reading the MDN poll results where it shows McCain-Palin out front of Obama-Biden.

Could someone give me just one viable reason why I should give my vote to the Republicans?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Sep 11, 2008, at 2:17 PM

Here's a topic for conversation:


This is a short article about the 2009 Ford ECOnetric, a diesel-powered subcompact which will be sold in Europe only. Wait til you read why.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Sep 11, 2008, at 12:57 PM

We've come to another date to observe, September 11, another date which will live in infamy.

I'm not so sure that "Dubya" has ever been sufficiently motivated to catch up with bin Laden.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Sep 11, 2008, at 11:26 AM

I've been listening to some old Stan Kenton tunes this morning, and it brought back the memory of seeing him at the old Auditorium Theatre there in Marshall, I believe about 1958.

Did anyone else in here see his band that night? It was very entertaining, I thought.

-- Posted by Slater on Thu, Sep 11, 2008, at 10:19 AM

You may have a good point about the scuba gear, Kathy. :)

We actually don't know what to expect in terms of effects. The weather people say that Ike could still be a category 2 when it reaches here, and I guess that means it'll be windy for a time. Timing is everything, as it turns out. The city is conducting its semi-annual brush collection out here starting next week. The storm might do all our trimming for us.

Your Houston experience seems a little unusual with respect to the daily rains. You must have arrived about the same time as a tropical storm. Our rains come in bunches, several inches at a time, sort of a feast and famine arrangement. It can be dry for two or three months at a stretch, I mean DRY, like no rain at all, then along comes periods of heavy rain.

The climate here is good, though. No need for winter coats. During the winter months (December-Fegruary) I generally wear socks and long pants.

I have no intention of standing out in the wind, pretending to be a foolhardy tv reporter. During the hurricane that came in at Brownsville a while back, a girl was talking about the weather and suddenly the wind got her and blew her into the rear of a van that was parked a short distance from where she was standing. I don't know if she sustained any physical injuries, but I expect she learned her lesson.

This afternoon we've been having this conversation about what kinds of foodstuffs we should stock up on. My wife just returned from the store and I'm going to go survey the goods. :)

Thanks again, gang!

Drew Officer

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Sep 10, 2008, at 9:03 PM

News, I'll just reach up there and pull that high pressure system down over us and scoot that rainmaker in a ssw direction. :)

Thanks for the kind thoughts!

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Sep 10, 2008, at 8:36 PM


Many of us are praying for you and we trust you will weather this storm in safety.

Also, if you could arrange for some of that rain to make its way down here to Australia, we would be most greatful. As you may know, Australia is the second driest place on Earth and we could sure use the rain.

Thanking you in advance,


-- Posted by news across on Wed, Sep 10, 2008, at 7:27 PM

Uh, maybe scuba gear is in order, Slater? I spent about a week in the Houston area several years ago, in May, and I don't think I've ever seen so much rain in 5 days in my life. It poured like Noah's flood every afternoon - and I'm not talking about a little trickle, it was gullywashers every day around 2 p.m. Took me two weeks to dry out when I got back home. Seriously, I do hope you'll all get through this safely.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Sep 10, 2008, at 7:16 PM

Thanks, KF. We've had a couple of these things come by here and leave their calling card, generally 20-30 inches of rain, then three or four days later there's no sign that anything out of the ordinary had occurred.

I'm planning to get out my water wings and dust them off, just in case.:)

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Sep 10, 2008, at 6:27 PM

Slater - sorry to hear of your proximity to Ike. We've had a fair amount of water up here this year, but nothing like you're about to experience, I'm sure. Hope you'll come through it okay.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Sep 10, 2008, at 5:59 PM

I may have been mistaken about the conflict with the neighbor over religion. She didn't want her child playing with your child, something like that.

Sorry if I've gotten posts mixed up.

Incidentally, I meant to ask in my post after I read your paper if that served as a final exam. I never took any English Comp classes, mainly because the people teaching them had reputations for being very strict taskmasters. :)

I was a very lazy college student. heh heh

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Sep 10, 2008, at 3:39 PM

pulpit, maybe we should have an open election like when Lincoln was elected over three or four other candidates, with about 24% of the vote.

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Sep 10, 2008, at 3:30 PM

I have been waiting for year - amidst almost non-stop promises that this person or that person was going to ake a big difference in Washington.

I am usually an optimst - but I am beginning to think the only way for any of us to see real change in our lifetime is for a revolution to occur.

Not the "This Presidential Tciket" revolution or the "We're More Experienced" revolution or a "We Had Woman VP Candidate on Our Losing Ticket Before You Did" revolution.

In the primaries the people of each state should have stood up to the Dems and Repubs and said

"NO! You are not going to force your candidates on us... We have the right to choose who we think will lead this country and the choices you have given us are NOT ACCEPTABLE!!!!"

Instead - we took was was offered and made our choices from the "right" box or the "left" box and the two major parties won once again.

It is - dear friends - time for a revolution.

I, for one, am tire of having being faced with yet another "better of two evils" type presidential election.

Makes me want to SCREAM!"

There - I feel better already.

-- Posted by circuitrider on Wed, Sep 10, 2008, at 2:02 PM

Here I sit, 140 miles inland from Corpus Christi, watching the track of Ike as it heads west through the Gulf, and I was wondering if anyone has a "I Like Ike" campaign button I could borrow to wear this coming weekend? :)

San Antonio, along with many other communities in this south central Texas area, takes its water from the Edwards Underground Aquifer, a big sucker with a big thirst. The one advantage of a storm like Ike is the potential aquifer recharge it carries. Other than that, we can do nicely without the flooding.

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Sep 10, 2008, at 11:01 AM

Notgvn, when you were researching your paper did you come across anything that talked about how greenhouse gases affect fish schools in the oceans?

I wondered if maybe overfishing is the main culprit in the dwindling harvest.

By the way, how are you getting on with your neighbor these days? Has she sent the Jehovah's Witness contingent around yet? heh heh

-- Posted by Slater on Wed, Sep 10, 2008, at 10:02 AM


Here is an interesting statistical fact about the approval of Congress. When the pollsters break down the approval rating of Congress into parties, the Democrats fare much better with an approval rating ranging from 35% to as high as 40% while the Republicans in Congress range from 9% to 11%.

You will rarely ever hear a Republican tell you the breakdown stats by party -- even if they know it -- and for obvious reasons -- they don't want you to know!

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Sep 10, 2008, at 2:02 AM

Congress has an approval rating down there with Dick Cheney. That is because the people are too ignorant to understand that Bush's wishs will be carried out, or nothing will be done UNLESS the Democrats have at least sixty solid Democrats in the senate to say yes when he has said no. Now they have fifty one. If we elect enough solid Democratic Senators stand back and watch, because congress will enact long overdue meaningful health care reform. Keep their hands tied and it will be more of the McSame.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Sep 10, 2008, at 1:08 AM

When spouses agree 95% of the time the reward is domestic tranquility and peace. When John McClain and George W. Bush agree 95% of the time the consequence is domestic disturbance and war.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Sep 10, 2008, at 12:52 AM

I noticed Air Force wife made no mention of the almost constant Republican filibustering and threat of filibuster in the Senate of every piece of Democratic sponsered legislation nor did she mention the continued threats of veto by a very very unpopular President.

How can our Nation expect to do anything right as long as the Republicans are in the White House and as long as the Republicans hold enough seats to filibuster the People's business in the Senate?

This is the chance for The People of this Country to finally take back the Government from a vicious political minority. Let's hope we do the right thing this time!!

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Sep 10, 2008, at 12:41 AM

If the Democratic candidates can't change things while serving as Congressmen/women, how are they going to make things any better as President/VP? Oh, they haven't been in Congress for 18 months - they have been out campaigning.

-- Posted by Air Force Wife on Wed, Sep 10, 2008, at 12:30 AM

Yes slater,

its my understanding that what your experience with your local NBC affiliate -- showing only one hour of the Democratic National Convention while showing the Republican National Covention in its entirety -- was quite a common occurance through out the USA. Its not surprising since the mainstream conservative media has been demonstrating their bias against fair and balanced news reporting ever since Bush began to run for the Presidency back in 2000.

I like the way you cornered him into admitting what you had stated in the first place -- that his affiliate had only shown one hour of the Democratic National Convention. However, the fact that it took your questioning him 3 times just to get him to admit what was a fact is an inditement of his and his affiliate's bias.

Given the mainstream conservative media bias against progressives and against the Democrats, its no wonder we find ourselves deeply embroiled in two questionable wars which are bankrupting our Treasury, killing our kids, and making us the laughing stock of the World.

I recently had a friend make a comment I thought was very appropriate. He said, "I just want them to report the news and spare me their opinion of the news -- I can form my opinion thank you very much."

I wonder how long our society can support this kind of one-sided approach to the "news?"

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Sep 10, 2008, at 12:12 AM

Yes, I saw what you were up to, and played along. However, only time will tell how much attention your ploy attracted.

Incidentally, that poll question has been up for maybe close to two weeks. You can vote once per day. lol Don't hang your hat on those numbers.

I had a circular conversation with the news director of the NBC affiliate here in San Antonio. I asked him how come the three locals showed all the GOP convention but only one hour of the Democratic convention (9-10pm Thurs). His first response was, and I quote: "The networks did carry the conventions." So I tried a seond time and here's his second response: "Sorry, Drew, but NBC did carry the conventions." So I wrote: "This circular conversation is making me dizzy, so I'll just say this and then move on to something else: Irrespective of what the networks (NBC, CBS, ABC)did, WOAI, KENS, and KSAT did not carry the Democratic convention but did carry the GOP convention, and the nature of your reply makes me question the motive."

He then wrote back and said "We carried the Democratic convention 9-10pm."

My reply to that was somethat scathing, so I now have angered yet another conservative-minded person. heh heh

When interest is high, things happen. Keep stirring!

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Sep 9, 2008, at 11:10 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
The current poll was placed Monday, Sept. 8. The previous poll asked which presidential candidate made the best choice for vice president. The majority chose McCain, 59.2 percent to 40.8 percent.

Well some folks think I do have a sense of humor -- Lord knows I've needed it to get by some of the hurdles I have had to jump in life, but no slater, I am not looking for a job in comedy. I guess I will just keep my day job playing violin for now.

As to my recent posts in this forum...they were designed to spur some thought on the part of some folks who haven't been spending a lot of time thinking here very clearly about the current election lately and hopefully do so with a bit of humor to boot.

If you wonder why I think this important, take a look at the current poll question here in the Marshall Democrat and the results so far in that poll (News page):

"If the presidential election were held today, which ticket would you vote for?"

Results so far:

Obama-Biden: 42.1% (85 votes)

McCain-Palin: 57.9% (117 votes)

It seems there are a lot of folks in the Marshall area that either (1) like the Republican Party failures of the last 8 years or (2) think the Republican Party of McCain is some other Republican Party.

Either way, if they vote in the election like they voted in this poll, we will be guaranteed at least 4 more years of recession, costly multiple wars, corrupt government, extremely high unemployment, a bankrupt National Treasury, medical insurance no one but the rich can afford, and perhaps even worse failures.

And besides slater, you should be somewhat familiar with my sense of humor by now.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Sep 9, 2008, at 10:24 PM

50,000 comedians out of work and news thinks he'll make the Tonight Show.

Right, news? heh heh

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Sep 9, 2008, at 9:41 PM

News, you're way out of line to accuse me of being confused. That would be like the pot calling the kettle black.

You have your opinion, I have mine.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Sep 9, 2008, at 9:33 PM

Listening, I've been sitting here thinking about federal spending and deficits and surpluses, and I believe if we looked back over the last 80-100 years I believe we'd discover that the Democrats have had to come along behing the GOP, the party of so-called fiscal responsibility, and restore fiscal integrity to the country.

Lyndon Johnson was elected by a margin of 61% to 39% over Goldwater. I've more or less attributed that margin as somewhat of a kneejerk reaction to Kennedy's assassination in part, and in part because of what Johnson wanted to accomplish, what he BELIEVED he'd accomplish for the American people in terms of social and economic inequalities.

Most historians would agree that he most likely would have succeeded, at least in large measure, were it not for the fiscal drain caused by the Vietnam conflict and the $2 billion monthly cost to wage that war.

By early 1968 he was resigned to the fact that his social programs wouldn't succeed and he felt that the general public despised him for allowing the US to become embroiled in the Vietnam thing. These were bitter pills for him to swallow, and in March of 1968 he told us he was quitting.

I've digressed a bit here, but Johnson's failures were bitter pills for the country to swallow - resulting in what social scientist James Davies called "relative deprivation." People at the lower end of the socioeconomic scale were seeing a widening gap between themselves and the rest of the people ending in a lot of unrest.

Nixon carried on with Vietnam and the federal deficit was climbing steadily, then Carter was elected and managed to trim the deficit by more than 60% as I recall - like from $84 billion to around $30 billion. He also implemented a plan to make the country energy independent.

Reagan was then elected and he cut Carter's energy initiative during his first term and ended it altogether at the beginning of the second term. He also implemented an economics policy that was carried on by Geo. HW Bush and now junior - trickle down. Take all our surplus which the Democrats created and give it to the people at the top. Whatever money the government needs to operate on can be borrowed.

In comes another Democrat in 1992 who, over 8 years, balanced the budget and created a trillion dollar surplus.

Junior comes along and promptly gives it away, and now, after 8 years, we have a deficit of around $500 billion, along with every economic problem anyone can imagine, but the public is STILL wanting to continue the Republican way of operating.

People say as long as it doesn't affect me, it's okay. I have a number of adjectives I can use to describe someone like that, but this is public property I'm using here, so I'll behave.

I believe the part of the public which leans toward the conservatives are still hung over from Johnson's failures, the attitude being passed down from generation to generation. You could maybe compare it with an impoverished family whose children perpetuate the cycle, and whose children perpetuate the cycle.

The administration, along with McCain and the new Republicans are the one's who don't get it, News. It's like they view the treasury as a bottomless well, and no real or rational thought to what is necessary to solve the problems.

I'm on the verge of believing that America has lost its world prominence forever. Some of it can be regained, but I honestly believe the US will no longer exert much influence.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Sep 9, 2008, at 9:30 PM


I can understand your confusion. I too was once confused.

I made the mistake of letting facts confuse me too. Then I finally listened to my inner voice and starting letting Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, and the other Independents at Fox News do my thinking for me.

Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, and the other Independents at Fox News helped me understand my confusion. They helped me understand that agreeing with President Bush 95% of the time and disagreeing with President Bush 5% of the time makes John McCain a reformer. They helped me understand that Governor Palin, who has agreed with President Bush 100% of the time will bring real change to Washington.

The Independents at Fox News helped me understand that Sarah Palin's being a Mayor of a town of under 9000 people and a 2 year Governor of the smallest State in the United States -- with a population of less than 700,000 people -- a State far smaller than the city of St. Louis -- makes her uniquely qualified to take over the Presidency of the United States of America if something should happen to a 73 Year old President McCain -- which Sean Hannity has assured me is a highly unlikely event given the strong recent history of good health Senator McCain has enjoyed.

In addition, fellow Independents like Bill Oreilly and Sean Hannity have helped me understand that multiple wars and endless wars are actually a good thing for America, and that our population and natural resources are also endless and such events would have no impact on our economy or ability to sustain multiple wars for ever and ever. So of course supporting Senator McCain and Governor Palin for the White House just makes sense.

The good folks at Fox News, who only present the news and never offer their opinion, have convinced me that economic recessions aren't recessions at all but are in fact mere economic "corrections" that are good for our economy. They helped me undestand that the high unemployment we are experiencing is actually a good thing as having lots of jobs for our citizens could only lead to infation. They also made me realize that the high paying manufacturing jobs the Republicans in the White House have been exporting to China and India and Mexico weren't really as important as the low paying jobs at Walmart and other retail markets that replaced them. After all, even though we have a lot more unemployed people, those same unemployed people can now enjoy the low, low prices of the Chinese made products at Walmart!!

Those are just a few of the reasons I have recently switched my support to the Republican Party. With the help of my fellow Independents at Fox News, I know longer have to spend time and energy thinking about things. I just tune in to them and get all my opinions readily packaged and waiting for me to adopt.

I recommend everyone stop thinking and let the folks in the Republican Party and at Fox News do the thinking for you... and hey get on out there and throw that football around. Don't let little things like the economy or endless war worry you.

Don't worry...be happy...and just let the good folks at Fox News do your thinking for you. I know I did and now I feel much better!

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Sep 9, 2008, at 9:27 PM

"after all John McCain has said as much. He has made it very clear that he will continue the Republican leadership we have come to trust and depend on."

I have to feel sorry for those who really believe that George Bush and the Repub. have done a lot for our country - they have (as long as you are rich). Trust? George Bush? The liar who took us into HIS war to prove to Daddy that he could. I am not for Obama as I believe we had better people out there, but I'd rather have him than the rich folks in the White House. Trust and depend on- - something no one has been able to do regarding Repub. for many a year.

-- Posted by Listening In on Tue, Sep 9, 2008, at 8:39 PM

Music, do you have any relatives living in Florida?

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Sep 9, 2008, at 8:20 PM

To Notgvn: I really do like the paper, but I still have plenty of doubts. I wanted to point out that in fact due to James Hansen's calculating error the earth is really only 0.7 of a degree warmer than 100 years ago; and that means the spike over the last 50 years you mentioned probably attributed about 0.4 of a degree. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't that mean by 2058, a day with a 78 degree high will instead have a 78.4 degree high? And in 2108 it will be a 78.8 degree high?

Go to http://www.climate-skeptic.com/ and scroll down aways, there's a graph showing the climate patterns from 1895 to 1946 and the other is from 1957 to 2008, you'll notice they look strikingly alike. They both start out with a dip, then they go up, then they dip again, and it seems to me this is a natural pattern.

You remember that glacier that melted recently somewhere in Europe, I think? Under what had once been a giant sheet of ice was an ancient human encampment. That proves to me that even though the glaciers are melting, they weren't always there; where ancient SUVs to blame? Ancient polluting factories? Doubtful.

Or could it be a natural planetary climate change?

I'm all for personal responsibility in conserving energy and not polluting, and I would prefer that all polluting factories start burning cleaner fuels and such, but I oppose Nancy Pelosi and them trying to pass laws to regulate "greenhouse gases" when only 40 percent of all CO2 and methane is man-made (the other 60 percent is due to livestock, which has existed since forever).

-- Posted by "When the Music Plays..." on Tue, Sep 9, 2008, at 8:12 PM

Satire: Irony, sarcasm, or caustic wit used to attack or expose folly, vice, or stupidity.

If you seriously believe what you said, then you've gone off on a tangent and need to regroup. It hasn't been 10 days since you said all of us, including yourself, have to vote for the Democrats.

Surely in this short period you can't have changed your position so dramatically over one poll, a poll which is only meaningful for the snapshot image ie occupies on the timeline, and then probably not much meaning at that.

Have faith in the American people to get it right this time around!

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Sep 9, 2008, at 7:55 PM

Satire? What Satire?

We Republi...um...I mean, Independents, feel very stongly about the issues, and as today's Gallup Poll points out (McCain 49%, Obama 44%), the Republican Party better represents what we Independents and the American Majority want in America.

In my post I merely point out what we have gotten from Republican Leadership over the last 8 years -- and rightly so. Given that John McCain has stayed loyal to these policies and the Republican Party 95% of the time and that the current Republican Party Platform has remained largely the same as our...I mean...their 2004 platform, we can depend on the Republicans and John Mccain to continue to give us, the American Majority, the results we have demanded from our leaders currently in the White House -- the Republicans.

The simple fact is, We the American Majority support the positions and policies of the Republican Party or we wouldn't vote for them.

As I stated, I am a strong supporter of democracy and thus I support what ever the American People want. In my previous post I merely listed the results the "get 'er done" Republicans have delivered to us, the American People, over the last 8 years and we have every reason to believe these policies will continue under the Republicans -- after all John McCain has said as much. He has made it very clear that he will continue the Republican leadership we have come to trust and depend on.

I see no satire in that.

The fact is we have gotten what we chose in 2000, 2004, and we will get what we choose in this election. That is how democracy works and we independents wouldn't have it any other way!

As I said, the Democrats just don't get it -- but you can bet We the People are going to get it and get it real well!!!

-- Posted by news across the neocon empire on Tue, Sep 9, 2008, at 7:35 PM

News, I do love good satire. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Sep 9, 2008, at 7:07 PM

I'll join your professor and also give your paper an A, notgvn. :) You covered a range of topics and tied them together very well, while detailing your points.

Doing a paper like this is a good learning experience about an issue that is, I believe, vaguely understood by most of us. Global warming is truly global in the sense that it encompasses so many diverse elements as it impacts every part of the earth.

Thank you very much for sharing your paper!

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Sep 9, 2008, at 6:48 PM

Recently I noticed the Republican Party has taken the lead in the polls.

I find that very interesting. I am a strong believer in Democracy, and as such, which ever Party America chooses to "lead" this Nation is ok with me.

Viewing the polls and the fact that the current party in the White House is in the lead presents some interesting conclusions about the mood of the electorate.

Clearly, the Democrats are way out of touch and they just don't understand what the American People want.

Let's Review:

1.) The American People want more wars -- preferably they want a war with Iran, a war with Pakistan, and a War with Russia and they want them all at the same time in addition to our current wars.

2.) The American People want recession -- and a long recession at that! The American People are sick and tired of having employment and want less of it. We want fewer jobs and we want less benefits at those jobs we do have. The investors and stockholders want less return on their investments and if possible, they prefer a loss of their principle.

3.) The American People demand more Government interference in their personal communications. They want to be spied on by the Government more often and much more intensely.

4.) The American People are sick and tired of the Untited States Constitution and particularly those pesky 10 Ammendments we call the "Bill of Rights." They want more restrictions on a the press, elimination of free speech, less freedom of conscience, and a lot more Government involvment in how, where, and what they should worship.

5.) The American People demand that more of their kids be killed fighting for oil!! The American people insist that their childrens lives be exchanged for higher profits for Multi-National Oil companies. Clearly, the American People will never comprimise on this important issue -- more money for the Muli-National Oil Companies and less American young people!!!

6.) The American People want less health care and much higher insurance rates -- in no way will the American People accept paying less for their medical care!!!

7.) The American People insist on more World Nations switching from basing their economies on the American dollar to basing their economies on the Euro. We neither want nor need their business!

8.) The American People demand that more American Jobs be sent to China, Indian, Malaysia, Mexico, and South America. The American People are tired of hearing Democrats whine and complain just because the Republicans have been sending American jobs overseas.

9.) The American People insist that we maintain a secret Government that uses lying to the American People as a standard practice. We don't want to know what our Government is doing behind our backs.

10.) The American People want our reputation around the World to sink even lower and prefer that other Nations stop trading with us altogether and that our former trading partners just do business with the Chinese from here on out.

That is why the Republicans are in the lead to keep the White House and that is why We The People will be voting overwhelmingly to make sure the Republicans stay in control of our Presidency.

Its to bad the Democrats just don't get it.

-- Posted by news across the neocon empire on Tue, Sep 9, 2008, at 6:02 PM

Since well over 1000 scientists worldwide agree that global warming is real and presents a real threat to the planet, I'm all for erring on the side of caution, as it were.

For example, if the I-70 bridge over the Missouri River at the Rocheport exit is showing significant fatigue in critical areas, we wouldn't wait until it fell into river before making repairs.

If the polar icecaps are melting and a consensus of the scientific community agrees that the melting is due to global warming, we wouldn't wait until the ice is gone before changing our habits.

It's better to be safe than sorry, obviously; however, our society has always had the mindset to close the barn door AFTER all the livestock has escaped, and that's precisely the kind of thinking that always gets us in trouble and ends up costing far more to correct, IF that's even possible in some cases.

Think about the housing mortgage crisis. Think about how all the "experts" and other officials have denied the problem (another example of how greed can skew reason) and see where it's gotten us now.

Think about the Challenger disaster and how NASA was aware of the o-ring problem but sat on its hands until it was too late.

It's been one thing after another.

Thanks for the links. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Sep 9, 2008, at 12:47 PM

I'm not completely convinced one way or the other about global warming, but I can tell you this, on Aug. 22, 2007, New York City had a high of 59 degrees, tying for the coldest NYC record in 1911; James Hansen of NASA stated he had made a slight mistake in calculating temperatures (0.3 degrees), which made 1934 the hottest year in United States history, instead of 1998, although it WAS maintained that recent years had been slightly warmer GLOBALY than the heat waves of the 30s; the founder of The Weather Channel called the whole thing a hoax; one of the lead men on the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (headed by Al Gore, but I can't remember the guy's name for the life of me) admitted that yearly temperatures had been rising and falling since 1998, which would be impossible is greenhouse gases were simply being trapped and making things steamy down here on earth.

Here are a couple of links, but if you you're already convinced before you read any of this I doubt you'll change you're mind. Also, you might notice most of this stuff is from out of the U.S. (for the simple reason the hardly anyone in America is going to challenge the consensus):






If you want to see the list of articles Michael Savage has collected (be warned, he is a right-winger) go to: http://michaelsavage.wnd.com/?pageId=24

-- Posted by "When the Music Plays..." on Tue, Sep 9, 2008, at 11:42 AM

notgvn, I'd be interested to read your paper if you'd permit it.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Sep 9, 2008, at 11:40 AM

While you're about not taking what you hear at face value, you may want to seek out more reliable resources for some of your information.

As for global warming being fabricated, I can't believe that hundreds of scientists who've studied the issue and confirmed it to be reality have agreed to some fake plan.

What have you discovered that makes you think it's not real?

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Sep 9, 2008, at 10:36 AM

Well, as I said, I haven't heard every single show, but what I did catch I later researched and confirmed to be true. I do this for basically everything I hear, since I (perhaps cynically) never take anything at face value.

One thing Savage pointed me onto was a deeper look into the whole global warming thing. This is something I'm still checking up on and thoroughly researching, but from what it seems to me, the entire theory looks like a fabrication.

I know I'm going to catch a lot of flak for this, but no, I don't really believe in global warming.

I mean just look at the August we've had; global cooling, maybe, global warming, not so much.

-- Posted by "When the Music Plays..." on Tue, Sep 9, 2008, at 10:24 AM

Music, how do you know this Savage person never lies or exaggerates? If that is in fact the case, then he would be the first, since that's the point of talk shows, to embellish and exaggerate.

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Sep 9, 2008, at 9:48 AM

Speaking of talk shows and the like, who on this forum would dare listen to Michael Savage? He's obviously pretty far-right (the least admirable quality about him, in my opinion, being a man of few extremes).

But from the Savage Nation shows I've caught, he's never lied or even exaggerated the facts and truth of a thing, just come at it from his right-wing point of view.

But still, Glenn Beck is the most awesome talk show host around (the fusion of entertainment and enlightenment, as they say)!

-- Posted by "When the Music Plays..." on Tue, Sep 9, 2008, at 8:38 AM

Eric, I'd forgotten there's a railroad bridge there also, and I guess that's what I've been looking at.

I can't tell what's been done, I suppose because of my failed vision, but I'm keeping watch! :)

-- Posted by Slater on Tue, Sep 9, 2008, at 7:14 AM

c'mon pulpitrider ... o'reilly has been to iraq numerous times, go look up the video .. olbermann ... i doubt he's been out of his flame-throwing cannon. he was great when he was on espn years ago, but got out of his element, thought he was too big for his britches, now he's showing his true colors ... he's a left-wing nut. look at his ratings every night .. mr. bill and just about every other show crushes him.

as far as greta, she has admitted in interviews that she is a liberal ... does a good job of hiding it and being neutral, and as far as glen beck .. you're right on there! great radio and tv show! love the guy!

-- Posted by aikman8 on Tue, Sep 9, 2008, at 1:14 AM

These Guys tell it like,it is! But i have lost trust, in the news , the polls, Politic,just about anything you can think of! Everything has become a big lie! I think this Administration set out to lie and manipulate everything! This Republican Party has turned into a bunch of Criminals! I'm sure that all Politicians, walks a fine line of legal and illegal. But ,this Executive branch of Government has nothing but contempt for the American People! And the Judiciary lets them get away with it. So i have a question,how could this bunch be Voted back into Office?? Has the American People lost their Mind????

-- Posted by Jo on Mon, Sep 8, 2008, at 10:08 PM

Yep, I'll track them down and if it's still in operation I'll give them fair warning of your intent to visit. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Sep 8, 2008, at 3:24 PM

Hey Slater

Next time you're out in the hill country, would ya check n see if a place called the Texas Stagecoach Inn is still alive and kickin in Utopia?

Great place to spend a few days.

Sorry to hear San Antonio TV stations did that to the Dems. Doesn't sound fair to me either.

-- Posted by circuitrider on Mon, Sep 8, 2008, at 3:15 PM

pulpit, you and I are fighting an uphill battle re media responsibility and neutrality.

I live in San Antonio, and all three networks have television station affiliates here. None of the three aired the Democratic convention, but all three carried the GOP convention.

Bias is one thing, but discrimination is another, and to my way of thinking the Democrats were discriminated against by these stations.

It's very disgusting when narrow-minded people have a responsibility to the public that they can usurp at will, and then are incensed when criticized for their actions.

No, there's nothing laughable about politics or conscious opposition to truth and fairness.

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Sep 8, 2008, at 2:56 PM

I've already lumped O'Reilly in with Olberman - both are poison, vain, and self absorbed. Threaten to send either of them off to cover the war in Iraq or Afghan and they would take press secretary positions for state representatives to keep from going.

As for other FOXers, I would have to say that Hannity & Colmes kind of balance each other out.

Greta is hard to read. Sure - she's on FOX - but she seemed a little bit left of center in her recent interviews with "pundits" re: Mrs. Palin.

Again - hard to read.

I don't care what any of the networks do as long as they leave Glenn Beck alone.

What a mind - and wit.

-- Posted by circuitrider on Mon, Sep 8, 2008, at 2:38 PM

I agree there's no place in news reporting for bias. I've made that point clear enough, and often enough.

Now, what about Fox News, pulpitrider? I haven't heard you complaining about the nonsense that goes on over there. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, as they say.

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Sep 8, 2008, at 2:20 PM

Totally my humble opinion - but whoever found Olberman would be well served to drop him from ALL commentary - he is "poison."

Much like O-Reilly ...

The journalistic world would be a lot better off without the both of them. And yes - I hesitate to use the word "journalism" when speaking of them.

-- Posted by circuitrider on Mon, Sep 8, 2008, at 2:09 PM

Several people have commented lately about media bias. Just wanted to draw attention to this news:

"MSNBC Drops Olbermann, Matthews as News Anchors"


Occasionally the MSM polices itself :-)

I think this is a good idea, too. Guys like Matthews and Olberman have their role to play, but it's not as anchoring coverage of news events.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Mon, Sep 8, 2008, at 1:14 PM

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