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Tuesday, Sep. 16, 2014

Speak Out August 2 to September 8, 2008

Saturday, August 2, 2008

The Marshall Democrat-News welcomes views or questions on any issue. We hope you'll express yourself freely and responsibly. We reserve the right to exclude entries that we deem disrespectful, threatening, obscene or in other ways objectionable.

Past Speak Out conversations


Comments
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pulpitrider, I believe you're a little off center on this issue.

If you look back over the years you'd see that elements of the media have always asserted their opinions about one side or the other, and this time around is no exception. There's not much the public can do other than to demand that the media take a neutral position and report the facts of a matter, without inflection.

In the case of the Democratic candidate selecting a VP candidate like Palin, the media would react in the very same manner as it has over McCain's choice.

If you're going to bash the media, at least use rational criteria as you argue for or against a point.

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Sep 8, 2008, at 12:17 PM

Oh, right, Eric. I didn't think about the vantage point being accessible only from the south side of the river.

I have the window open but haven't seen any activity so far. It looks as if all the sections are still in place, but I'm not for certain about that.

-- Posted by Slater on Mon, Sep 8, 2008, at 11:49 AM

"Shame on us if to their detriment, we succumb to our own greed and fear"

We should fear. We import almost 70% of our oil from countries that are hostile to us, or where a shooting war or a major terrorist attack could spike prices and cut supply overnight. If everyone is worried about joblessness, high prices, collapsing dollar, soaring deficits, recessions-depressions or whatever, you will get it quicker and harder than anything with an oil crisis that will make this summer's price hikes look like the proverbial Sunday School picnic. Like it or not, the US economy and indeed the world economy runs on oil.

We need to be energy independent but no one in Washington, Democrat or Republican has led on the issue since the first oil embargo under Jimmy Carter. And its not a case of "either or". We have to become energy independent with resources we have NOW while developing new renewable technologies in some kind of rational order with a timetable that moves us off oil. But we are not going to be able to retool and have whole new technologies in widespread use in 10 years or probably even 25 years. Look at how long it took to electrify the whole country, install phone systems and move from horse and buggies to automobiles. Unfortunately Washington has a tendency to impede and regulate without throwing leadership into the equation.

If the oil spigots are shut suddenly, we are going to crash and give "misery index" a new meaning. However historically, sometimes real crises do spur new development and change, but at a very painful cost and far more so than the vast majority of Americans can imagine or would be willing to endure. And no, I am not a fan of big oil. They do not have the interest of the country or the American people at heart, and will use these situations to make even more profit however they can. They need to be watched like hawks.

And please folks, come on with the snarky name calling like Bimbo and Tammy Faye look-alike etc. etc. Same thing about discussing family issues: even Mr. Obama said that had no place in the discussion and families, especially children were off limits. That type of talk is pretty juvenile and is found at places like the Daily Kos or Huffington Post.

It is legitimate to question and discuss the experience and policy points of any of the candidates. Doing so is what makes a discussion board interesting and potentially valuable. Thank you.

-- Posted by Black Rat Snake on Mon, Sep 8, 2008, at 9:12 AM

I have been sitting by for a long time watching a relative few folks keep this section a pretty much left leaning place to be. Even those who say they are neutral seem to always have a "but" - and it's usually the buts that expose one's true feelings.

That said, I hate to be disagreeable on my first post, but I have to disagree with the comment posted from the Kansas City Star concerning "if" the Dems had chosen a Palin-like partner for Obama.

No telling what the Republicans would have done, but I can pretty much gaurantee that the media would have eaten it up - showering praise on the party, the presidential candidate, and the choice for vp.

Why ?????

Because the main stream media has become THE most active and aggressive entity backing (pushing) the Pbama candidacy.

Palin could have a halo, a harp, and wings and the media would - while admitting that she may well be an angel - would no doubt leak a few stroies that she is - alas - a fallen angel.

For what it's worth.

-- Posted by circuitrider on Mon, Sep 8, 2008, at 8:32 AM

Nanadot,

How miserable of a person do you have to be to call someone that you probably don't know and have never met a bimbo? Is this to make yourself feel better? Is this because you wanted Hilary to be the first President or VP? Maybe it's just that you feel the need to voice your hatred toward a woman who is successful because it makes you feel inferior. I am curious, as is MrsAKGrizzly to know what you have accomplished to be afforded the right to judge others. I am curious to know if you know Mrs Palin? After all isn't that the only way you would know that she is a bimbo as you called her?

-- Posted by cjay on Mon, Sep 8, 2008, at 4:57 AM

I have been reading this speak out section in amusement for a while now. I don't comment much, because most conversations are not concerning to me. However, this recent conversation has been very concerning to me. I sure hope people around this country don't think the same as some of you do.

Now to get to what concerns me I thought I would give out the "dumbest comment of the speak out section" award.

And the award goes to the comment

Oh it's a tie.

I am voting straight democrat ticket.

I am voting straight republican ticket.

What's funny to me is that the same people who say the above, preach about looking at the candidates and choosing the right one. If you were really doing this, you wouldn't make such a ridiculous statement. I am neither rep. nor dem., I simply chose who I think would be the best person for the job. This has lead me to vote dem, rep and indy. So if you are voting straight one or the other, at least point out why you are voting for each person and not a blanket statement that all rep or dem are bad and I am voting for the other. This statement simply dilutes your precious well thought out comments and makes most people thank you are a crazy liberal or crazy conservative.

-- Posted by cjay on Mon, Sep 8, 2008, at 4:49 AM

Even those who advocate opening every possible location to immediate drilling for oil admit that it is at best a stop gap measure. So, what's the hurry?

I also believe that I am an authentic family man. To me, one important measure of my claim to authenticity is that I am much more concerned as to what will be the plight of my dear grand children, and their chidren after them, than my own circumstances. I hope that all others who proclaim the importance of family values share my concern.

If in fact those are shared family values why is there no consideration being given to the need for oil of those future generations? Surely, their need will be much more desperate than our own. Even if we move ahead with alternative power sources for transportation to the point that in their lifetime oil is not used at all, there are many other things such as plastics that will not be available with out petroleum. It will remain a valuable resource for future known utilizations, as well as others presently unknown to us.

Those thoughts draw me to the conclusion that the "drill every where now crowd" are totally disregarding family values. When family values are considered how can we not keep all those currently off limits areas in reserve for the use of the children, and the unborn? Shame on us if to their detriment, we succumb to our own greed and fear

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Sep 8, 2008, at 12:32 AM

I have a question. Do the telephone pollsters only call land line numbers, or do they also target a proportionate number of cell phones?

I believe there are different demographics for the two distinct types of telephone service. If I am correct in that belief, the lack of balance may skew the polls to the point that they would be of limited value.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Sep 7, 2008, at 11:30 PM

A letter to the editor in the KC Star today pointed out that had the DEMOCRATS picked a female VP with five kid (one of whom is a newborn with Down's Syndrome, one unmarried and pregnant), the Republicans would have been up in arms!!! They would have been shouting from the mountain tops! You've got to love politics!

-- Posted by oneofmany on Sun, Sep 7, 2008, at 11:13 PM

Thanks for the tip about the MoDot webcam. I'll tune in and see if anything is going on.

You must live some distance outside of Marshall if you'd have a 120-mile roundtrip. About 50 miles roundtrip from Marshall, otherwise, via 240 hwy.

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Sep 7, 2008, at 8:57 PM

It should be an interesting experience, Eric. Making still photos would certainly be a challenge for me. I never could get the hang of slow motion and stop action. :)

I hope the weather is decent.

Response by Eric Crump/Editor:

I may give it a miss tomorrow, now that I look at the forecast. I don't know if the demolition is weather dependent -- and I can't get to MoDOT's website right now -- but the chances of getting good shots goes down in dim light and rain. May not be worth driving 120 miles roundtrip, especially since they are blowing the thing up in sections and will do it again Tuesday and Wednesday.

MoDOT does have a webcam trained on the bridge, so if their site is available we should all be able to watch that way.

http://www.modot.mo.gov/northcentral/gla...

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Sep 7, 2008, at 5:49 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
I figured I'd have to go the long way around since the ferry won't be running until after the implosion and the photo spot is on Stump Island, as I understand.

Is anyoone planning to go watch and photograph the demolition of the bridge at Glasgow starting tomorrow morning?

I would be forever grateful if I could be included in the sharing of photos:

Drew Officer

dofficer@satx.rr.com

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Sep 7, 2008, at 4:43 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
I'm planning to go. I've never tried to photograph a demolition like this before, but I hope to get some good shots.

QUESTION:

How is it possible for someone born in the state of Georgia in 1950 to grow up not knowing the definition of the term "uppity?"

Congressman Lynn Westmoreland (R-Ga), upon being called out for using the term to describe Barack and Michelle Obama, claims he didn't know the definition of the term.

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Sep 7, 2008, at 4:17 PM

I see the Chiefs came up a little short this afternon.

Must've been all those leaves in the Foxboro vicinity about to change color that distracted them enough for the Patriots to slide by.

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Sep 7, 2008, at 3:01 PM

I'm curious to know what 'Nanadot' has accomplished and what credentials and qualifications are there to support calling Sarah Palin a Bimbo? What do you do for a living? I'm fascinated to know!

-- Posted by MrsAKGrizzly on Sun, Sep 7, 2008, at 12:59 PM

Cheetah, I'm troubled by the repeated attempts to portray McCain as a bigger-than-life war hero. Obviously he bravely served his country, but so did thousands upon thousands of others during the same period. Somehow, and mybe the media is at the forefront, we've reached the point of diluting what for me is the real meaning of the word, hero.

Many of our military personnel have been in prison camps; being a prisoner of war doesn't automatically make someone a hero, nor does it automatically make someone a good person, or good leader, or anything special. I'm not denigrating McCain's experience, or the experience of any other person who had the misfortune to become a captor of the adversary. Hearing this reference over and over makes me think about the points I've made previously regarding anyone who makes a lot of noise in order to draw attention to themselves. Shakespeare had it right when he said, Methinks he protesteth too much. Millions upon millions of Americans quietly go about being patriotic every day of their lives; they don't believe it's necessary to call attemtion to themselves because of their love of country. They exemplify the way all of us should be.

Johnson or Nixon or someone back in that time period called this group the Silent Majority. I'm not certain if the term still applies, depending upon how the quiet ones of today are being defined, but I suspect the term has a new definition.

If Obama had selected Hillary as his running mate, would this have made McCain's choice moot? Most likely, I'd say. I agree that it's a ploy to diminish some of the attention that's been on Obama's campaign. The Republicans (or at least the media talking for them) say it's a race not about issues but about personalities. Can you imagine? That in itself is a laugh, subjectively speaking.

I'd concede that the Republicans had the right idea, but the choice of "contestants" may very well end up leaving a bad taste in their mouths.

I've been plodding along after these political parties for a number of years, and over time I've become increasingly saddened and somewhat disillusioned by the pettiness demonstrated by both sides. We have a great country which deserves a far greater respect than what our current crop of politicians give it, and give the people. Long-term apathy among voters has put us where we are today; you could say we've gotten just what we deserve for not living up to our obligation. The Chad Mitchell Trio said in a song, we have such fine leaders that we elect them over and over again. Every generation has a fair number of people with outstanding mental capacity and the gift of reason. It's up to the American people to select the best-suited candidates to replace all the Senator Paine's whom Jefferson Smith learned after arriving in Washington, were less than patriotic.

We can and we must demand a more cooperative spirit from our parties by "changing" the entrenchment to a revolving door.

I'm moving toward the far end of my generation, but my fervent hope is that all those coming along behind me will have a strong and respected nation in which to raise their children, but the only way I see that happening is for everyone to give up thinking and acting in terms of "me" and to begin thinking and acting in terms of "we."

"WE, THE PEOPLE, IN ORDER TO FORM A MORE PERFECT UNION..."

-- Posted by Slater on Sun, Sep 7, 2008, at 12:10 PM

KF, no sign of the Bette Davis movie, and how odd that is! I'm working on building a complete collection of her movies since she's my all-time favorite female Hollywood star, and it appears I may end up shelling out some bucks to get all of them. All the movies I've collected so far I've gotten for free. That site I mentioned is free and I've spent hours looking through some of it and I've only touched the surface.

www.imdb.com is a fantastic resource also (for information). Once upon a time I was attempting to write a history of the evolution of movie theatre ownership in America, but I ran into so many dead ends I just pushed it aside and went on to other things.

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Sep 6, 2008, at 10:54 PM

We're getting a number of those musical programs here, also. Our PBS station (KLRN) has them on a cycle,I think. :) I've watched all of them at least once and some twice.

I don't have that movie, but I'm going to go into the site and see if anyone has posted it.

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Sep 6, 2008, at 10:31 PM

Wow Kathy, that sounds fantastic!!!!!

The late, great Elvis Presley once said of Roy Orbison, "He has the best singing voice I have ever heard."

That is quite a compliment especially when considers the source of the compliment -- the King of Rock and Roll.

And that is quite a line up of greats along with Roy Orbison KCPT has there.

I sure do wish we could get KCPT here in Sydney as I am a HUGE FAN of Roy Orbison (and now I will be happily humming..."Pretty woman, don't walk away, pretty woman"...for the rest of the day). What an incredible singer he was and those that knew him say he was just as incredible a human being in his private life as he was in his professional life -- kind and compassionate and they say he always had a postive view on life.

Thanks Kathy for that and a big thanks to KCPT for having the show!!!

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Sep 6, 2008, at 10:24 PM

Slater: Do you have "All This and Heaven, Too" in your collection? Old fave of mine.

And for you oldies-lovers here, KCPT is running a 20-year old Roy Orbison show this evening (it's on until 10:30). If you haven't seen it, it's great - among the musicians with ol' Roy are Tom Waite, J.D. Souther, Elvis Costello and a very young Bruce Springsteen, and the backup group is Bonnie Raitt, Jennifer Warnes and k.d.laing. The looks on their faces say just one thing, "Oh, man, I can't believe I'm onstage with ROY!"

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sat, Sep 6, 2008, at 10:11 PM

News...hmmmm...

There's a character in the movie Stalag 17 who was given the nickname News.

Are there any classic movie fans in here? I've started a collection of films from around 1930 to the 1960s - about 125 so far. I came across a forum which has over 9,000 movies posted, along with over 10,000 music albums, a childrens section, software/tutorials section, and a number of other sections. Here's the address if anyone is interested: www.ourparadiseisland.com

News, I think the guy who started this site is in Oz.

It's been up for around 8 months and already has such an amazing amount of stuff there.

AND NO PORNOGRAPHY!! :)

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Sep 6, 2008, at 9:45 PM

Your neutrality is duly noted Kathy.

I was merely pointing out that Palin's postition regarding the life of the mother has been pointed out not only by you but by me and others as well previously in comments.

In addition, I wanted to comment on the fact that her extremist positions are a mute point given the precidents set in Roe v Wade and other High Court rulings and by the basis of our legal system which is crucial to an orderly society.

In addition, I wanted to point out that the very choice she insisted is her daughters right as an American woman is the very right she wants to take away from your daughter -- a double-standard if I have ever seen one and hypocricy to the highest degree -- a hypocricy that has permeated the policies of the Republican ruling elite in Washington for the past 8 years.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Sep 6, 2008, at 9:31 PM

KF, we depend on you to keep us out of hot water. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Sep 6, 2008, at 9:29 PM

Sorry gang. I figured it out. The link does work. I just needed to open the article. DUH!!!!

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Sep 6, 2008, at 9:28 PM

news across: I appreciate your comments, but please don't mistake my comments on Palin as any indication of support for her or her positions on my part.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sat, Sep 6, 2008, at 9:25 PM

No Slater,

That link was not my posting nor is it my comment.

However, I think the facts are clear that the Republican Party is the party of double-standards, doubl-speak, torture, wars of aggression in order to control other country's natural resources -- at the cost of our childrens' lives, and I think its very clear that the Republican Party is the party of hypocrisy.

So now this same party is attempting to convince us that they aren't the party that is responsible for all that has gone wrong for the past 8 years and that somehow they are the party that will fix it.

Anyone that really believes that crud they are trying to shove down our throats, please signify by standing on your head.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Sep 6, 2008, at 9:21 PM

Oh wait! OKReader must have posted the link. I better go wash these glasses. :)

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Sep 6, 2008, at 9:17 PM

OKReader, Palin is one of those contestants who would try to sabotage any girls ahead of her in the pageant. heh heh

What??? Oh, you kid!!!!

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Sep 6, 2008, at 9:12 PM

Hey news, did you post this link at the top of your post? It's dead the way it sits, but I didn't mess with it to see if I could get it to work.

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Sep 6, 2008, at 9:05 PM

www.pensitoreview.com/2008/09/05/palin-c......

sent by rgernreich since 1 day 1 hour 21 minutes, published about 15 hours 52 minutes

Palin Wed. night: "To the families of special-needs children all across this country, I have a message: For years, you sought to make America a more welcoming place for your sons and daughters. I pledge to you that if we are elected, you will have a friend and advocate in the White House." In fact, Palin cut funding for services for Alaska's special needs children by 60 percent, according to an analysis of state budgets.

Can the Republicans as represented by Mrs. Palin say anything that isn't baloney? It is established that she will use her family in any way to further her ambition. The above quote from her speech was an obvious reference to her Down's syndrome baby, an I share your pain, and I understand message. What a hypocrite.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Sep 6, 2008, at 8:44 PM

Yes Kathy Palin does make an exception as regards the life of the mother and we have covered that numerous times over the course of the comments regarding this issue.

It should also be pointed out that the Supreme Court has already set a precident in this matter and it is their opinion that the 14th Ammendment rights of women to have exclusive control of their own bodies is clear. Unless the right wing believe they can pass a new Constitutional Ammendment -- a long shot at best given that the majority support the right to choice -- reversing the 14th Ammendment, Roe v Wade is a done deal -- no going back at this point with out passing a Constitutional Ammendment.

In additon, in Roe v Wade the Supreme Court ruled that in fact there are limits to the right of women to make the choice of whether or not to have an abortion. The High Court ruled that the right of choice only extends to the point at which the fetus becomes viable -- which doctors agree is at 6 months. Thus the Court has ruled in Roe v Wade that states certainly have the right to prohibit abortions beyond the second trimester and most states in fact do. If a woman wants to have a growing fetus removed at 6 months she may do so but the operation is completely different from an abortion. At that point it becomes a cessarian delivery and most states -- if not all states -- require the physicians and nurses take all possible steps to keep the neonate alive. However, abortions beyond the 1st trimester are very rare and cessarian deliveries of neonates beyond 6 months are even more rare.

In the end, the Constitution remains supreme -- your right to control your own body and make your own medical decisons, Kathy, remains exclusively your own and as a result, the state cannot interfere in your medical choices.

Palin's position on abortion is really mute point since, even if somehow she and McCain managed to get elected -- a very unlikely prospect -- and if McCain died leaving Palin in the White House, she would have no way of reversing Roe v Wade despite the fact that she would be able to appoint any vacated seat on the High Court. It should be duly noted here that our entire legal system is based on case law and thus precidents are the foundation upon which our legal system operates. The Supreme Court Justices are well aware of this and they know that to reverse their own precident would leave our legal system with out guidance and in chaos. The likelihood that they would do such a thing is slim at best.

However, what Palin's position does demonstrate is the same double-standard Republicans have clinged to for at least 8 years now. Palin recently said "...my daughter made her choice and will keep the baby." Many of us find her position hypocritical in that she would defend her daughter's right to make that choice and yet favors taking away your daughter's (and the daughters of all Americans) right to make that choice. Such hypocricy, is for many of us, not representitive of the change Americans want to see in Washington but rather represents the status quo that the Bush/Cheney Regime have set.

That is one reason this independent voter is voting straight democrat ticket this election -- we want and need change in a direction opposite from the hypocritical double-standards set by the governing Republican party now in the White House.

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Sep 6, 2008, at 8:31 PM

Palin does make one exception for abortion - to save the life of the mother. That isn't often mentioned, so I thought I'd just bring it up again to be sure it isn't overlooked. I'm not defending or supporting her in any way, just keeping the record straight, based on what I've read in print and online.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sat, Sep 6, 2008, at 7:07 PM

rr3yco said, "I think we are all pro-choice in the sense that we have the choice to make the right decisions before there is a baby. We shouldn't be making the decision after the fact. Pro-abortion is PRO-MURDER so we need to call it what it is!!!!!" When a woman is raped or a child is a victim of incest they did not and do not have a choice to "make the right decision before there is a baby"!! Should every woman and young girl be on birth control just in case she is raped or molested, therefore preventing any unwanted pregnancy that might result in such an occurence??!! The movement is called PRO-CHOICE...not Pro-Abortion. I believe if a woman or young girl is raped/molested that would be trama enough, much less having to carry an unwanted pregnancy to full term and deliver a baby after such a horrendous event. I'm not saying I think people should use abortion as a form of regular birth control. Yes, there are better means of birth control than that. However, I believe there should always be an opportunity to terminate pregnancy in the case of rape and incest. It is my understanding that Ms. Palin is Pro-Life and believes there should be absolutely no exceptions even the in the case of rape or incest. A woman (or a young girl and her parents) should have the right, after consulting with a qualified health care professional, to be able to make the best decision for her well-being and the government should stay out of it! If not women will have to go back to being butchered in some back alley by whomever, medically qualified or not, to terminate unwanted pregnancies. I find it hard to believe that anyone would want to return to the days when that was how a woman with no choices had to deal with such matters.

-- Posted by Typesetter on Sat, Sep 6, 2008, at 4:01 PM

So, what is your "what if," Cheetah?

Do you mean Palin is entitled to equal press? Certainly she's entitled to the opportunity for the people to get to know her, but timing seems to be everything in this case.

Springing a surprise on the country at this late date may very well scuttle the plan, especially if any missteps are uncovered during the examination of her history over the next few weeks.

One way people view this last-minute "secretive" choice is that there may be things in her past which are unfavorable. No one knows for certain about that yet, but I'm sure we'll have a ruling on that soon enough.

I read the open letter posted by NanaDot, along with the comments, and in the eyes of other media people it's a genuine accounting of some of Palin's history. The woman painted Palin as a power monger who would betray most any trust if she believed it would work in her favor, and that she's a vindictive person who takes revenge on anyone opposing her. A basic personality flaw that I see is her obvious lack of self-esteem and self-efficacy: she can't share control with anyone when she perceives it to be a show of inadequacy; every action has to appear as being of her own creation. I wouldn't necessarily say that she's strictly ego-driven, although that's a part of it. With people like her, there's no such thing as compromise - it's going to be her way or else.

It may turn out that she's committed no ethics or criminal violations, but the fact remains that her persona has the potential to do the greater harm.

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Sep 6, 2008, at 2:30 PM

Good reading, ND! Thanks for sharing.

-- Posted by Slater on Sat, Sep 6, 2008, at 10:55 AM

I am pleased to read here in the Marshall Democrat that Marshall's parks will be receiving an overhaul.

Its nice to know the City elders haven't forgotten about Marshall's best resource for the future -- the children. Good on you Marshall!!! Please keep up the good work!

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Sep 6, 2008, at 3:17 AM

The following is posted on the Drudge Report, a conservative blog.

ENQURIER RESPONDS TO MCCAIN/PALIN

Wed Sep 03 2008 18:19:21 ET

"The National Enquirer's coverage of a vicious war within Sarah Palin's extended family includes several newsworthy revelations, including the resulting incredible charge of an affair plus details of family strife when the Governor's daughter revealed her pregnancy. Following our John Edwards' exclusives, our political reporting has obviously proven to be more detail-oriented than the McCain campaign's vetting process. Despite the McCain camp's attempts to control press coverage they find unfavorable, The Enquirer will continue to pursue news on both sides of the political spectrum."

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Sep 6, 2008, at 1:37 AM

NOMORONS: The Palin information came from moveon.org. Before someone begins a rant about aha! left wing subversion, go to the site, read the sources they list for each comment. Then if you believe any are not true, please cite their source, and comment why the source, and the statement are not credible. It will make your own comment more credible.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Sep 6, 2008, at 12:10 AM

Very interesting, ghostwriter! About the coverage, I mean. I'm in San Antonio, and none of the network stations carried the Democratic convention.

I know these stations are biased, but I never figured they'd resort to that tactic.

Thanks again for the wake-up.

-- Posted by slater41 on Fri, Sep 5, 2008, at 7:00 PM

Slater41, if the convention coverage was as you stated in the Marshall-Slater area, you were half lucky. Where I live, it was on all the networks all the time and on several cable channels all the time. Both parties. Only thing worse could be the Olympic coverage which I enjoyed.

As for the Palin information. Most of it is available on the web somewhere just type in name. Problem is that much of the internet has incorrect information. Check against credible sources and recheck those.

As for news stories on white gangs out to kill Obama. Three or four men were arrested near the Democratic convention then later released on lack of evidence of intent. One of them was to have said they were there to kill Obama but no hard evidence was ever found. I don't they had any weapons in their possession when arrested. This according to St. Louis Post-Dispatch.

-- Posted by ghostwriter1978 on Fri, Sep 5, 2008, at 6:45 PM

It's amazing to me when someone from the left is surprised that the Republicans pick someone with conservative views as Governor Palin. Doesn't the left pick candidates with liberal views such as Senator Biden? Wow amazing news flash!!! I think Governor Palin is an excellent choice and I know that everyone will not agree but that is one of the freedom's we have in this country because of men and women willing to fight for the freedom's that we take for granted. I think we are all pro-choice in the sense that we have the choice to make the right decisions before there is a baby. We shouldn't be making the decision after the fact. Pro-abortion is PRO-MURDER so we need to call it what it is!!!!!

-- Posted by rr3yv0 on Fri, Sep 5, 2008, at 6:15 PM

I have one other question:

Can anyone tell me why the GOP convention was covered by all the networks and the Democrats were relegated to PBS only?

Does this say anything about the electronic media?

I know, that's another question when I said I have one more. I meant to say I have a two-part question. (smile)

-- Posted by slater41 on Fri, Sep 5, 2008, at 5:14 PM

I am curious as to where bsc1223 found all of this profound knowledge about this little known woman. I am very interested in reading the same articles/sources you used in your post.

-- Posted by nomorons on Fri, Sep 5, 2008, at 4:15 PM

I was talking with a Scottish friend, and he asked me about the death threats being made by white supremacist groups against Obama. He said he's heard reports by the news people over there indicating this. Has anyone heard anything like that? I haven't, but it wouldn't surprise me.

-- Posted by slater41 on Fri, Sep 5, 2008, at 3:41 PM

Editor Crump,

Thanks for the link to slate.com. I'll reserve my conclusion regarding its objectivity until I've had ample time to study the site.

In the meantime, after reading Thompsom's FAQ list, I have to say that his points raise about as many questions as he attempts to answer, starting with his headline, EVERYTHING you ever wanted to know about Palin. I hardly believe he's able to tell us EVERYTHING we want to know about her, but he's made a start.

Like the Bridge to Nowhere, he leaves us dangling in several instances.

I'm not interested in rumor, no matter what the topic or focus. Thompson has given us a base to build on, and I'm certain more of the facts will be forthcoming, regardless of the illusions created by the Republicans so far.

-- Posted by slater41 on Fri, Sep 5, 2008, at 11:50 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
I agree with your assessment: The Slate FAQ is a base to build on, not a final answer. I don't mean to vouch for Slate's "objectivity," either. It strikes me as a liberal-leaning publication, though not strongly partisan, really.

Did you watch Sarah Palin's speech? The speech told us a lot about her.

It told us that she can distort the facts and deliver mean-spirited zingers with the best of them. It told us that if Rush Limbaugh or Ann Coulter ever need a stand-in, she'd be a great pick.

It told us that she can be condescending and dismissive of the real work Barack Obama did helping real people on the South Side of Chicago. It told us that she can uphold the long Republican tradition of lying about Democratic tax cuts--even though Obama's plan would give Americans a bigger break than McCain's.

But the speech--written by one of President Bush's speechwriters--didn't tell us the truth about Sarah Palin's extremist positions. And the more that people know her far-right views, the less they support her. (There's a partial list below.

)

One of the best ways to get the word out about Palin is to write a letter to the editor of your local paper.

Palin's speech and the reaction to it also made clear why McCain picked her. It wasn't a decision about who's most qualified to serve a heart-beat away from the presidency--it was a political decision about pleasing the far-right base of the Republican party.

Writing a letter to your local paper is a great way to make sure voters understand that. The opinion pages are the most widely-read pages of the newspaper. Write today, and your letter's a lot more likely to get published because it's so topical.

Here are a bunch of points you might want to include in your letter:

Palin recently said that the war in Iraq is "God's task." She's even admitted she hasn't thought about the war much--just last year she was quoted saying, "I've been so focused on state government, I haven't really focused much on the war in Iraq.

" 1, 2

Palin has actively sought the support of the fringe Alaska Independence Party. Six months ago, Palin told members of the group--who advocate for a vote on secession from the union--to "keep up the good work" and "wished the party luck on what she called its 'inspiring convention.

'" 3

Palin wants to teach creationism in public schools. She hasn't made clear whether she thinks evolution is a fact.

4

Palin doesn't believe that humans contribute to global warming. Speaking about climate change, she said, "I'm not one though who would attribute it to being manmade.

" 5

Palin has close ties to Big Oil. Her inauguration was even sponsored by BP.

6

Palin is extremely anti-choice. She doesn't even support abortion in the case of rape or incest.

7

Palin opposes comprehensive sex-ed in public schools. She's said she will only support abstinence-only approaches.

8

As mayor, Palin tried to ban books from the library. Palin asked the library how she might go about banning books because some had inappropriate language in them--shocking the librarian, Mary Ellen Baker. According to Time, "news reports from the time show that Palin had threatened to fire Baker for not giving "full support" to the mayor.

" 9

She DID support the Bridge to Nowhere (before she opposed it). Palin claimed that she said "thanks, but no thanks" to the infamous Bridge to Nowhere. But in 2006, Palin supported the project repeatedly, saying that Alaska should take advantage of earmarks "while our congressional delegation is in a strong position to assist.

" 10

The plain fact of the matter is that Sarah Palin did a bang-up job delivering a Karl Rove-style political attack speech last night. That makes her a skilled politician but it doesn't make her views any more palatable for voters. Americans don't really want another far-right, anti-science ideologue in the White House.

Please help get the word out about where Sarah Palin really stands on the issues.

-- Posted by bsc1223 on Fri, Sep 5, 2008, at 7:10 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Slate offers an information FAQ on Palin:

http://www.slate.com/id/2199362/

FRIENDS AND NEIGHBORS, HERE IS AN INTERESTING ARTICLE REGARDING THE VARIOUS OPINIONS OF PALIN THAT YOU DON'T WANT TO MISS:

IT INCLUDES A MUST SEE CLIP FROM THE DAILY SHOW -- IT KIND OF PUTS EVERYTHING INTO PERSPECTIVE FOR A LOT OF US,

ENJOY!!

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Stewart_sl...

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Sep 4, 2008, at 7:39 PM

I just finished watching a documentary titled: "a.k.a. Tommy Chong".

As we approach the election I implore everyone here to go and rent it. Netflix has it and maybe video stores will as well. Take a look at what the govt.(we) did to this man and the reasons they did it and ask yourself if this is really the country you want to live in. If after watching it you feel that this is the country you want then congratulations because let me tell ya buddy you already got it. John Ashcroft's heavy handedness is sickening and we are still suffering his effect on our nation. I am ashamed that he hails from Missouri and I'll be ashamed of us all if we continue to support an adminstration that encourages such abuses of power. But then again it seems like abuse of power is all we really know these days.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Sep 4, 2008, at 7:01 PM

"When the Music Plays...",

Your comments regarding Palin sounds eerily like Palin's speech...a lot of crud and no substance.

Veiled personal attacks on the commenters here as well as wild accusations about traditionally conservative publications will not help your Party win this election -- the American People are hip to your Party's standard smear and inuendo campaign tacticts, and frankly sonny boy, that dog just won't hunt.

...and I would hardly call the National Enquirer -- the publication that was dead on right regarding Edward's affair and the publication that states that it can prove its allegations of Palins extra-marital affair -- a "liberal blogger" or "left-wingnut."

Further, while neither you nor I may at this point know what statements Palin's brother-in-law and sister may or may not have made in the heat of a nasty child-custody case, one thing is for sure -- Palin's using her office for personal gain is a serious crime in Alaska and the good people of Alaska are demanding their laws be enforced and their State Legislature is listening -- and rightly so. There is no justification for breaking the law. As an elected offical she had an obligation to set aside her personal ambiguities and focus only on the Peoples' business. That is what she is being paid to do -- not to use the Peoples' State Office as her personal tool of retribution.

How odd it is that an already corrupt Republican party that chooses a State Governor with quite a few legal and personal problems as their Vice Presidential candidate doesn't bother you, but the American People commenting on the bones in her closet does bother you. I bet you voted for Bush didn't you...twice! Didn't you? Clearly, you have no problem with corruption allegations when they are directed at a Democrat, but let the People investigate corruption allegations of one of your party and you errupt like a volcano. This despite that fact that in the last 8 years your party, the Republican Party, has produced so much corruption that one might wonder if they have a corruption factory in operation churning out corrupt politicians as fast as it can.

Finally, you state that you are "just trying to think about this logically" and yet your comment is all emotion and no logic at all. I don't think that kind of approach is good for you or for our Country. It is probably one of the reasons that Bush and Cheney "feel" they don't have to consider what the overwhelming majority of Americans want. It is perhaps the kind of "thinking" that brought us to the point where we have a Government engaged in lying to its people on a regular basis, spying on its own citizens, and making torture a standard practice with pow's and others.

Well, "When the Music Plays...",...its like I said,...

sonny boy, that dog just won't hunt!

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Sep 4, 2008, at 6:43 PM

I first voted in the 1964 general election, and over the 44 years since that time I've observed a common characteristic of Republican supporters, and that is, they never have definite, clear, rational reasons for voting. When asked why they favor their choices, the response is either vague and ambiguous, or we get the Maynard Krebs-type analysis.

Last night after Palin finished her speech a delegate from Tulsa was asked for his opinion of her. This delegate had been quizzed about her prior to her speech and had admitted to knowing very little about her and wasn't sure if McCain had made the best choice. His response after the fact was to say she was great, wonderful, AWESOME! End of analysis.

Surely there's more substance to a candidate than to be described by a convention delegate as "wonderful, awesome, great." And so it goes...

By his own admission McCain has a muddled understanding of economics, he believes our troops should remain in Iraq for 100 years (as justification he says we've had troops stationed around the world for 100 years), a prominent member of his party describes McCain as possessing a temper. I guess that's one of the earmarks of current policy McCain wants to extend. That'll get us a long way in diplomatic relations. Come to think of it, he DOES remind me in appearance and demeanor of Nikita Kruschev.

Carrieliz42 says she's proud to admit she'll be voting for the Republican ticket. She says it's her decision and I concur. My hope is that everyone who votes for the Republicans does so with a clear head and comprehensive understanding of how the GOP intends to solve the problems.

-- Posted by slater41 on Thu, Sep 4, 2008, at 5:35 PM

1/3 Republican+ 2/3 Democrat = partial disaster

3/3 Democrat = Total Disaster

I refer to the 1/3 being the office of the President and the other 2/3 being the House and the Senate. Total control by any party is just that - TOTAL. the checks and balances must remain in unbalance in order to eliminate the chance of total control by either party.

In addition, if the Democrats have 2/3 the power they have to share 2/3 the blame.

-- Posted by Maynard G Krebbs on Thu, Sep 4, 2008, at 3:56 PM

notgvnasht- Soooo...let me get this straight; you're saying that all of the things you listed are only the fault of the Republican Party? Because if I read that right I think you might be sadly mistaken. I am not on here to start anything and the odds are against me ever writing on here again but I have to say that you can't just blame one political party for the down falls of our country. I'm pretty sure there were plenty of Democrats, Republicans, and everything else in between that had helping hands in the situation we find our nation in now.

Oh and I'm not ashamed or embarrassed at all to say I will be voting for McCain and Palin in November. To each his own, we all vote based on what is important to us and that's exactly what I plan to do.

-- Posted by carrieliz42 on Thu, Sep 4, 2008, at 3:29 PM

WTMP,

That fact that I wouldn't even vote for a "good" republican is the fault of the republicans to begin with. Like you I am an independent and hold no allegiance to any party. Call it a protest vote if you like but I would'nt vote for a republican for dogcatcher at this point. I am but a lowly citizen and since no one else will hold the republicans accountable, then all I can do is not reward them with my vote. This goes far beyond wheter or not Sarah Palin is a good person or even a good republican. This is about holding the republican adminisrtation to at least some accountabily. I blame congress but not enough to leave these criminals in power.Make no mistake these are criminals and what they have done makes Watergate and Monica Lewinsky look like Ozzie and Harriet. Now it seems as if any critique of Palin brings cries of sexism when the only sexism I see is the simple fact that John McSame picked her soley for the gender vote. Great. Just what we need in our next president. So I ask you again, just exactly what have the republicans actually done to deserve my vote?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Sep 4, 2008, at 11:58 AM

Music, here's a statement by Friedrich Nietzsche which perfectly describes the Republican political philosophy:

...and those who were dancing were thought to be insane by those who couldn't hear the music.

I'll agree with you that there are good and bad members in both parties, but the primary difference is that the Republicans have no interest in joining forces to "right the ship," so to speak. It's either their way or the highway for anyone who identifies even a single point of contention.

If you truly believe in the goodness of America, and I'm sure you do, I can't see how you can believe our country is sound economically, diplomatically, and spiritually after the past eight ruinous years. I live in Texas, where Bush was governor before moving east, and where the state treasury had a nearly $400. million surplus accumulated during the stewardship of Ann Richards. By the time Bush left, that surplus had turned into a multi-BILLION-dollar DEFICIT. He's been a failure in every venture he's gotten into, so I'm not the least surprised of his failures as our president.

McCain wants to continue the status quo and expects to be elected to, in my opinion, run our country completely into the ground by extending many of the already-failed policies of the current group. Even if I were a member of the Republican party I could never in good conscience vote for anyone who insists the Bush administration has been good for the nation.

NO WAY, NO HOW, NO McCAIN, as Hillary expressed it.

-- Posted by slater41 on Thu, Sep 4, 2008, at 11:48 AM

When the same liberal bloggers and left-wingnuts claim Palin's youngest son was in fact her daughter's son and that she faked her pregnancy to cover it up, then turn and say they can prove she's an adulteress, I go, "Okay, suuuure; be a moron, see what I care!" (I'm refer to the stupid bloggersphere as moronic, not you, just so you know.)

And the so called breach of ethics to get her former brother-in-law fired has many accusations flying from both sides, but one verifiable fact that both agree on is this; when the jerk was in the custody battle with Palin's sister, he is quoted as saying, "If you go to a lawyer, I'll kill your father!" (That, by the way, would be Palin's dad.)

I'm just trying to think about this logically, and if some A-hole threatens to kill my dad, I'm going to threaten him back, no matter what my position is; how about you?

And you know what I liked about her speech, she can throw conservative cliches just as much as Obama can throw his liberal ones, and she can do it much more convincingly, in my humble opinion.

I'm going to step away from my computer now, so anyone can say anything they want now, with no fear of me breaking their train of thought.

-- Posted by "When the Music Plays..." on Thu, Sep 4, 2008, at 11:07 AM

Palin is also under investigation for criminal ethics violations of which there is a hell of a lot of evidence to indicate her guilt such as taped conversations of her aids making threats, statements by her aids indicating that she ordered them to make threats, multiple phone calls from her home to the victims, et al. She is also facing possible impeachment in the AK legislature after the independent investigator's report is in on Oct 31, 2008. In addition, there are a number of reports from the same folks that busted John Edwards that Palin has committed adultery a number of times -- not a characteristic I find appealing in a Vice Presidential candidate.

They were dead on right about Edwards and they say they can prove the allegations against Palin as well.

Her speach at the RNC was as empty a speach as I have ever heard, filled with empty, partisian statements, Republican party talking points, a lot of crude, and no substance. To say the least, I was not impressed.

And as if that was not enough to keep from voting for her, her positions on abortion are down right scary. She supports forcing rape victims to carry the rapists baby to full term and delivering same. She supports forcing incest victims to carry the baby to term and delivering same.

In fact, I can't think of a single position she stands on that I agree with. Further, we may think we vote for individuals, but we don't -- we elect party platforms. Politicians who don't follow the party platform don't receive a second nomination -- so they follow the platforms to the tee. The current Republican Party platform is almost identical to the 2004 Party platform -- which means they are promising us the same as we have gotten from the list of criminals I posted below.

Frankly, I doubt this Nation could survive 4 more years of Republican rule. Thus there is no way I can or will support any Republican candidate for office at any level. I am shocked and offended at what they have done to my Country and I would be failing as a citizen and a patriot to vote for any of them.

That is why this independent is voting straight Democrat ticket this time around.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Sep 4, 2008, at 10:41 AM

News across, every single person you list (that I'd heard of) were the Republicans I was NOT referring too.

I was talking about people like Palin, who has gone against her party to do what's right, who has gone against oil companies to do what's right, who has quit her own job to do what's right.

Because of that and more, she's straightened out her state economy and earned herself the best approval rating of any governor anywhere!

If she were running for president against Obama I'd vote for her!

But no, her competition is with Joe Biden (a good ol' boy) and the liberals are going with Biden.

Did you know that according to feminist guidelines, Barracuda Sarah doesn't qualify as a woman! Seriously! If that's not one of the stupidest things ever contrived on this planet I don't know what it is.

By the way, this independent is still going to pick and choose who he supports, but I've made up my mind, vote McCain + Palin!

-- Posted by "When the Music Plays..." on Thu, Sep 4, 2008, at 10:23 AM

Sarah Palin is Pro-Life and that is one of the many reasons I would not consider voting for the McCain/Palin ticket. Pro-Choice does not mean Pro-Abortion. Pro-Choice gives women many options, only one of which is abortion. Just as people have freedom of speech in this country a women should have the right to make an informed decision with her doctor about her body that is none of the government's business. IF a women decides that abortion is the right decision for her then that is between her and her God and nobody else. I know Ms. Palin has a downs syndrome baby that she made a choice to keep…that was her decision…her choice! However, what if Ms. Palin's teenage daughter was pregnant by Uncle Chester who molested and raped her. What if being forced to have a child after that experience would be so psychologically damaging to her teenage daughter that she begged her mother to allow her to terminate the pregnancy. Would she be so absolutely Pro-Life in that matter, as I understand her belief is no abortions under any circumstances including rape or molestation. I believe anyone who is that Pro-Life should take it upon themselves to adopt several of the unwanted children in the world, particularly those with issues such as fetal alcohol syndrome or crack babies, those born with AIDs, or just ones who have emotional issues from being abused by parents that didn't want them in the first place. Pro-Choice means having a CHOICE, which is and should remain every woman's right. I would not want to elect someone who would work to take that right away.

-- Posted by Typesetter on Thu, Sep 4, 2008, at 9:59 AM

Yeah and lets name some of those "get 'er done" republicans:

GEORGE BUSH: lied the American people into war so the Muliti-national oil companies (biggest contributers to his campaigns) could control Iraqi oil resources, "outed" an American CIA agent (putting her life and the lives of her family in danger) in violation of our law for politcal purposes then lied about it, approved and ordered the torture pows and others, denied American civilians inside the USA their Constitutional right to habeas corpus (ie: Jose Padilla), racked up the biggest debt the USA gov has ever had with his irresponsible borrow and spend policies, responsible for the deaths of more than 4000 American men who died to make the multi-national oil companies richer, responsible for over 1 million innocent Iraqi civilian deaths -- 55% of whom the current Iraqi Gov estimates were women and children, multiple violations of Title 50, Chapter 36, FISA law, multiple violations of Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 118 -- Federal War Crimes Act, created one of the worst economic crisis in American history by failing to respond to the housing crisis in a responsible and timely manner -- leaving individuals homeless while bailing out the finance companies responsible for the crisis, left residence of New Orleans to suffer, and in some cases, die after Katrina while he and John McCain ate cake, questionable ties to convicted criminal Jack Abramoff.

DICK CHENEY: Co-conspirator of the Iraq War lies, lied to the American People regarding Iraq and the rush to war, Co-conspirator of the outing of a CIA Agent in violation of American Law for political reasons, Co-conspirator in policy of torture of pows and others, lied about Scooter Libby's leaking name of CIA agent to press, responsible for creating most secret government in history of USA, signer of PNAC document calling for World military and economic domination by usa and for multiple wars in Mid-East, multiple violations of Title 50, Chapter 36 Federal Acts, multiple violations of Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 118 -- Federal War Crimes Act, et al.

DONALD RUMSFELD: -- do I even have to list his crimes? (If your answer is yes, scroll up, see George Bush section, same thing)

TOM DELAY, REPUBLICAN, US CONGRESSMAN FROM TEXAS: Under inditement on Texas State campaign finance law, felony money laundering and conspiracy counts -- multiple charges, currently awaiting trial in Texas.

SCOOTER LIBBY, CHIEF OF STAFF FOR DICK CHENEY: Convicted of Perjury and lying to Federal Grandjury.

LARRY CRAIG, US SENATOR: Plead guilty to making unwelcomed "adult" advances to undercover police officer then lied about it after admitting his guilt.

MARK FOLEY, REPUBLICAN, US CONGRESSMAN FROM FLORIDA: explicit internet messages of an "adult nature" with current and former congressional pages under the age of 18, resigned under disgrace and admitted his wrong doing.

WILLIAM FRIST, REPUBLICAN, SENATOR FROM TENNESSEE:

subpoenaed by the SEC on 3 counts of criminal indictment for fraud and insider trading.

JACK ABRAMOFF, REPUBLICAN LOBBYIST: plead guilty to three counts of conspiracy, honest-services mail fraud and tax evasion.

RANDY DUKE CUNNINGHAM, REPUBLICAN, CONGRESSMAN FROM CALIFORNIA: admitted taking $2.4 million in bribes, currently serving time in prison.

BOB NEY, REPUBLICAN, CONGRESSMAN FROM OHIO: plead guilty to conspiracy and making false statements. He acknowledged taking money, gifts and favors in return for official actions on behalf of Abramoff and his clients.

Those are but a few of the big names. There are more -- many more but too many to list in this forum.

Yeah those "get 'er done" Republicans can really be counted on for "getin' us good."

Thats why this Independent voter will be voting straight Democrat Ticket this election.

I recomend you good folks do the same.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Sep 4, 2008, at 9:58 AM

Who said anything about voting for the bad Republicans over the good Democrats? Not me.

You just said if "Jesus Christ himself came back tommorrow and ran as a republican" you wouldn't vote for him, meaning you'd take the good and the bad Democrats over the select few awesome Republicans (i.e. Palin).

I pick and choose the good Democrats to vote for and the good Republicans to vote for and the good Libertarians to vote for, and the corrupt can their bureaucratic politics and stick it where the sun don't shine.

Party loyalty means nothing to me, American loyalty is what I'm about.

-- Posted by "When the Music Plays..." on Thu, Sep 4, 2008, at 9:46 AM

WTMP,

Aside from treason, war crimes, human rights violations and shredding the constitution, just what exactly have these "good ol' boy" "git r' done" Republicans actually gotten done?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Sep 4, 2008, at 9:22 AM

I admit, I could have settled for much less of Rudy Giuliani. But don't sweat it, aen2012, if WTF would vote for corrupt, bureaucratic Democrats over the good, decent, "get 'er done!" Republicans, just let him; he'll regret it later!

-- Posted by "When the Music Plays..." on Thu, Sep 4, 2008, at 8:43 AM

What the f....

What are you talking about? If you are talking about Sarah Palin you are a little confused!!! Gov. Palin is awesome. She did a great job last night and she will be the next VP of the United States!

-- Posted by aen2012 on Thu, Sep 4, 2008, at 8:13 AM

This is a great newspaper! The Marshall Democrat always does a great job covering stories in Saline County! Thanks so much for keeping us informed!!!

-- Posted by aen2012 on Thu, Sep 4, 2008, at 8:11 AM

As I watched the convention last I realized that if Jesus Christ himself came back tommorrow and ran as a republican I wouldn't vote for him.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Sep 4, 2008, at 8:11 AM

I know this may be a bit off topic, but I wanted to comment on this Newspaper, The Marshall Democrat.

The Marshall Democrat is as old a tradition as any in Marshall -- not just a Newspaper in Marshall, it has become a trusted institution. It was always me and my family's first choice for news when I was growing up and when I was an adult in Marshall. The Marshall Democrat has always been a paper we could trust to give us the straight news. While they certainly cover State and National news well, they are also the best source for local news. In fact, when I was living up there on top of Montegue hill and needed equipment or tools for my small farm, the Marshall Democrat classifieds was the first place I would look, and I was always able to find a good deal there.

My Grandparents and my Parents, always kept a yearly subscription of the Marshall Democrat and I continued that tradition until the day I left Marshall to move to Oz. In our home you could always find the latest copy of the Democrat, and while the internet version is great, its no replacement for the good old printed version. In fact, if there was any reasonable way to do it, I would be recieving the Marshall Democrat by mail everyday here in Australia. However, I am so far away now that it would take about two weeks for each copy to get here in Australia and the cost would be non-feasable. So I may go ahead and subscribe to the subscription version on the net.

Reading the Marshall Democrat is lot like spending time with an old family friend -- it always has a good story and its a newspaper you can trust!

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Sep 4, 2008, at 12:25 AM

WTF, I forgot to respond to your comment about the polls.

The pollsters are trying to be sophisticaed and they're giving us numbers by age group. For example, when you see that McCain is a percentage point or two ahead of Obama, that's the number that represents white males in McCain's age range. Overall, Obama is 8-10 points ahead (that was the number given last night).

So, when you see numbers, they'll most likely be reflective of a particular age bracket. Also, some of the polls are not statistically significant. I say that not from fact, but it's my feeling that the data is not significant because of the kinds of questions being asked and the way they're asked. I can't speak factually for the polling services, but I've done a lot of that kind of work in the past and I know that validity is often compromised when this kind of polling is done.

-- Posted by slater41 on Wed, Sep 3, 2008, at 11:57 PM

news, you make a great appeal for the people of America to think clearly and don't be fooled by the smokescreen the Republicans are laying down.

I do believe our nation is on the threshhold of becoming just another land mass unless we unite behind the Democrats and work our tails off to set things right.

I listened to some of Palin's speech tonight, and I was not impressed with her delivery or her sniping at the Democrats. Someone recently described her as a Barracuda. Well, if she's a Barracuda, then Joe Biden is a Great White shark and he should show her no mercy.

Obama is going to have to be the toughest he's ever been in his life as he matches up with McCain from here on.

Last night Orrin Hatch was asked about Palin and he said he didn't really know anything about her, then not two minutes later he was praising her, saying she's so skilled and is the absolute best choice. The Republicans were talking tough but it sure sounded like they aren't very confident.

WTF, what do you suppose your dad would think of news' post?

-- Posted by slater41 on Wed, Sep 3, 2008, at 10:45 PM

news across,

Those were excellent and sad points you made in your last post. It's frightening to me that if one believes the polls that the republicans are virtually neck and neck with the dems. While I am upset with the democratic congress I am baffled how anyone in this country could still support the GOP after the past 8 years. I guess abortion and gay marriage are the only 2 things that really matter to them. Free country my ***.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Sep 3, 2008, at 9:54 PM

Gal66,

That was an interesting post. I think you make some good subtle points.

As a Marshalite, an American, now living in Australia with my Australian wife, I watch this election with great interest. While I live under the laws and policies of Australia and am not subject to most of the laws and policies of the United States while I live in Australia, I still have 3 grown sons living in the USA, as well as sisters and brothers and cousins and parents living in the USA -- so of course I remain concerned at what happens in this election -- and of course as an American citizen who still maintains a residence in Missouri (though I live in Australia), I will be voting in this and all American elections to come -- if we have any more elections after this one.

I find it amusing that both parties claim they are the party of change since both have had a hand in the policies that clearly seem to be pushing the United States into the category of 3rd World dictatorship status. In fact, I find it most amusing that the party that was mostly responsible for the failed policies that have lead the USA down a path of self-destruction over the last 8 years is now claiming they will bring about change despite the fact that their positions on the issues and their party platform remain largely unchanged.

I might add one correction to your posting, most of the World no longer looks to the United States for leadership. In Australia the major trading partner is China and while Australia has a small population, they look to the British Commonwealth for their protection. Let's not forget the UK is a major nuclear power and still has one of the most powerful armies and navies in the World -- so the Aussies don't look to the USA as its protector. In addition, since Australia recently signed the Kyoto Protocal, the United States now stands as the only country in the World that still refuses to do anything concrete and substantial to reduce the emmissions that cause global warming. And pulling their troops out of Iraq was a big part of why they fired the equivalent of the Republican party (here called the Liberal Party) from office. The Australians seem very pleased that their equivalent of the American Democrat Party, the Labour Party, who is now in charge here, has moved ahead with progressive policies such as their recent withdrawl of Australian troops from the "coalition of the willing." I guess you could say the Australian people are no longer "willing" to be a part of that shameful "coalition."

In many major countries around the World, many countries have switched from basing their currency on the dollar to the Euro -- another indication that the USA has lost most its credibiliity in the World.

However despite the complete failures of Republican policies over the last 8 years, despite the substantial loss of credibility the Americans have lost in the World over the last 8 years, despite the fact that medical care costs and insurance costs in the USA are increasing geometrically, and despite the economic tailspin towards economic depression the USA is currently in as a result of Republican Party policies over the last 8 years, from here it looks as if Americans are poised to keep the party that is the major cause of these problems in the White House.

That really is sad.

I wish you good luck with that...you are really going to need it!

-- Posted by news across on Wed, Sep 3, 2008, at 9:03 PM

Bill Balsamico has it right. Thanks for this post, Gal66!

-- Posted by slater41 on Wed, Sep 3, 2008, at 10:28 AM

just wanna thank the swimming pool peoples for the doggie plunge last nite! my lil pit bull and i met a lot of others friendly doggers and had a great time swimming!!!! see ya next year!!

-- Posted by marshallite on Wed, Sep 3, 2008, at 9:38 AM

A little something I found on the web

Casa D' Ice Address on America

"Two score and eighteen years ago our leaders brought forth on this continent the greatest nation on earth, conceived in liberty and dedicated to the proposition that no other nation could equal us. Now we are engaged in a great challenge of endurance and survival, testing whether that nation, or any other nation that was so strong and so powerful can long endure. We are meet on a great battlefield, it is a new war consisting of economic, industrial and political struggles. We are losing many of these battlefields as our congress and politicians allow the out sourcing of our jobs and companies, along with the failure to remedy our broken borders. This is not why many gave their lives so that this nation may live. It is also fitting and proper that we correct this. But in a larger sense, we cannot Dedicate, we cannot Consecrate- we cannot hallow this country. The brave men and women, living and dead, who struggled here, have Consecrated it, far above our politicians to add and detract. The world has always looked to America for assurance, support, leadership and assistance which she gave unconditionally. It is for us the VOTERS rather than remain complaisant but take back the country which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us--that is to vote out every incumbent in the Senate and Congress. After all anything has to be better than what we have now. That from these new and fresh politicians we can take increased devotion to our cause for which many gave the last full measure of devotion. That we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain- that this nation under God, shall have NEW GROWTH--- NEW BUSINESS--and NEW JOBS, along with ENERGY INDEPENDENCE and BORDER SECURITY----and that Government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."

Bill Balsamico

Casa D'ice

N. Versailles Pa. 15137

-- Posted by Gal66 on Wed, Sep 3, 2008, at 7:35 AM

Well slater41,

politics in Australia are like poltics everwhere. the Liberal party, which is Australia's version of the American Republican party got voted out of power last year by record numbers of people. It was a landslide victory for the left-wing. The right-wing in Australia are pretty racist and like the Republican Party, with the Australian right-wing, the poor and middle class get poorer and the rich get richer. So we fired them last year. Of course since I am an American and not yet an Australian citizen, I was not able to vote in that election, but my aussie wife did. I will be voting in the next National election here though as I will have dual citizenship at that time. I did however work the polling places on behalf of the Labor Party (Australia's equivelent of the American Democrats). All I had to do was remind folks that Howard was a pal of Bush and that was all it took. Howard not only lost the Prime Ministership, but even lost his own seat in Parliment.

Things have been much better since we fired the right-wing. We signed the Kyoto Protocal and we pulled all our troops out of Iraq. In addition, the working class is doing much better now that the right-wing is out of power. The economy has improved considerably and they are eliminating the anti-worker legislation passed by Howard and his right-wing party. But like anyplace, there are still a lot of things to do and not everyone is happy.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Sep 2, 2008, at 10:17 PM

News, here's one from someone in your part of the world. The tone seems to indicate his displeasure with the Australian Labor Party, I'm guessing:

The Squirrel and The Grasshopper

The squirrel works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter.

The grasshopper thinks he's a fool, and laughs and dances and plays the summer away.

Come winter, the squirrel is warm and well fed.

A social worker finds the shivering grasshopper, calls a press conference and demands to know why the squirrel should be allowed to be warm and well fed while others less fortunate, like the grasshopper, are cold and starving.

The ABC shows up to provide live coverage of the shivering grasshopper; with cuts to a video of the squirrel in his comfortable warm home with a table laden with food.

The Australian press informs people they should be ashamed that in a country of such wealth, this poor grasshopper is allowed to suffer so while others have plenty.

The Labour Party, Greenpeace, Animal Rights and The Grasshopper Housing Commission of Australia demonstrate in front of the squirrel's house.

The ABC, interrupting a cultural festival special from St Kilda with breaking news, broadcasts a multi-cultural choir singing 'We Shall Overcome'.

Bill Shorten rants in an interview with Laurie Oakes that the squirrel got rich off the backs of grasshoppers and calls for an immediate tax hike on the squirrel to make him pay his 'fair share' and increases the charge for squirrels to enter Melbourne city centre.

In response to pressure from the media, the Government drafts the Economic Equity and Grasshopper Anti Discrimination Act, retroactive to the beginning of the summer. The squirrel's taxes are reassessed. He is taken to court and fined for failing to hire grasshoppers as builders for the work he was doing on his home, and an additional fine for contempt when he told the court the grasshopper did not want to work.

The grasshopper is provided with a Housing Commission house, financial aid to furnish it and an account with a local taxi firm to ensure he can be socially mobile. The squirrel's food is seized and re-distributed to the more needy members of society - in this case the grasshopper.

Without enough money to buy more food, to pay the fine and his newly imposed retroactive taxes, the squirrel has to downsize and start building a new home.

The local authority takes over his old home and utilises it as a temporary home for asylum seeking cats who had hijacked a plane to get to Australia as they had to share their country of origin with mice.

On arrival they tried to blow up the airport because of Australians' apparent love of dogs.

The cats had been arrested for the international offense of hijacking and attempted bombing but were immediately released because the police fed them pilchards instead of salmon whilst in custody.

Initial moves to return them to their own country were abandoned because it was feared they would face death by the mice.

The cats devise and start a scam to obtain money from people's credit cards.

A 60 Minutes special shows the grasshopper finishing up the last of the squirrel's food, though spring is still months away, while the Housing Commission house he is in crumbles around him because he hasn't bothered to maintain it. He is shown to be taking drugs.

Inadequate government funding is blamed for the grasshopper's drug 'Illness.'

The cats seek recompense in the Australian courts for their treatment since arrival in Australia.

The grasshopper gets arrested for stabbing an old dog during a burglary to get money for his drugs habit. He is imprisoned but released to enter a drug

rehabilitation program for a few weeks. He is placed in the care of the probation service to monitor and supervise him.

Within a few weeks he has killed a guinea pig in a botched robbery.

A commission of enquiry, that will eventually cost $10 million and state the obvious, is set up.

Additional money is put into funding a drug rehabilitation scheme for grasshoppers.

Legal aid for lawyers representing asylum seekers is increased.

The asylum seeking cats are praised by the government for enriching Australia's multicultural diversity and dogs are criticised by the government for failing to befriend the cats.

The grasshopper dies of a drug overdose.

The usual sections of the press blame it on the obvious failure of government to address the root causes of despair arising from social inequity and his traumatic experience of prison.

They call for the resignation of a minister.

The cats are paid $1 million each because their rights were infringed when the government failed to inform them there were mice in Australia.

The squirrel, the dogs and the victims of the hijacking, the bombing, the burglaries and robberies have to pay an additional percentage on their credit cards to cover losses, their taxes are increased to pay for law and order, and they are told that they will have to work beyond age 65 because of a shortfall in government funds.

THE END

-- Posted by slater41 on Tue, Sep 2, 2008, at 8:02 PM

Hey news,

Yes, I'm always on the lookout for lighthearted tidbits of that nature. I'm glad you enjoyed it. :)

-- Posted by slater41 on Tue, Sep 2, 2008, at 7:52 PM

slater41

That is the funniest thing I have read in a long time. I can't stop laughing. Thanks for posting that!

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Sep 2, 2008, at 7:05 PM

For anyone wanting a little humor...

There's a guy named Scott Williams who lives in Newport, RI. He thinks of himself as an archaeologist, and whatever he digs up in his back yard he sends to the Smithsonian with a detailed technical description of his find. Apparently this has been ongoing for quite a while.

I've pasted a copy of the letter from the Smithsonian which responds to his latest "contribution" to science:

Smithsonian Institution

207 Pennsylvania Avenue

Washington , DC 20078

Dear Mr. Williams:

Thank you for your latest submission to the Institute, labelled "93211-D, layer seven, next to the clothesline post . . .Hominid skull". We have given this specimen a careful and detailed examination, and regret to inform you that we disagree with your theory that it represents conclusive proof of the presence of Early Man in Charleston County two million years ago.

Rather, it appears that what you have found is the head of a Barbie Doll, of the variety that one of our staff, who has small children, believes to be "Malibu Barbie". It is evident that you have given a great deal of thought to the analysis of this specimen, and you may be quite certain that those of us who are familiar with your prior work in the field were loathe to come to contradiction with your findings. However, we do feel there are a number of physical attributes of the specimen which might have tipped you off to its modern origin:

1. The material is moulded plastic. Ancient hominid remains are typically fossilised bone.

2. The cranial capacity of the specimen is approximately 9 cubic centimetres, well below the threshold of even the earliest identified proto-hominids.

3. The dentition pattern evident on the skull is more consistent with the common domesticated dog than it is with the ravenous man-eating Pliocene clams you speculate roamed the wetlands during that time.

This latter finding is certainly one of the most intriguing hypotheses you have submitted in your history with this institution, but the evidence seems to weigh rather heavily against it. Without going into too much detail, let us say that:

A. The specimen looks like the head of a Barbie doll that a dog has chewed on.

B. Clams don't have teeth.

It is with feelings tinged with melancholy that we must deny your request to have the specimen carbon-dated. This is partially due to the heavy load our lab must bear in its normal operation, and partly due to carbon-dating's notorious inaccuracy in fossils of recent geologic record. To the best of our knowledge, no Barbie dolls were produced prior to1956 AD, and carbon-dating is likely to produce wildly inaccurate results. Sadly, we must also deny your request that we approach the National Science Foundation Phylogeny Department with the concept of assigning your specimen the scientific name Australopithecus spiff-arino.

Speaking personally, I, for one, fought tenaciously for the acceptance of your proposed taxonomy, but was ultimately voted down because the species name you selected was hyphenated, and didn't really sound like it might be Latin. However, we gladly accept your generous donation of this fascinating specimen to the museum. While it is undoubtedly not a Hominid fossil, it is, nonetheless, yet another riveting example of the great body of work you seem to accumulate here so effortlessly. You should know that our Director has reserved a special shelf in his own office for the display of the specimens you have previously submitted to the Institution, and the entire staff speculates daily on what you will happen upon next in your digs at the site you have discovered in your Newport back yard. We eagerly anticipate your trip to our nation's capital that you proposed in your last letter, and several of us are pressing the Director to pay for it.

We are particularly interested in hearing you expand on your theories surrounding the trans-positating fillifitation of ferrous ions in astructural matrix that makes the excellent juvenile Tyrannosaurus Rex femur you recently discovered take on the deceptive appearance of a rusty 9-mm Sears Craftsman automotive crescent wrench.

Yours in Science,

Harvey Rowe, Chief Curator - Antiquities

-- Posted by slater41 on Tue, Sep 2, 2008, at 5:35 PM

What the f

Yeah I agree, vegimite is terrible but the aussies love it. They actually make sandwiches out of it - and they think we are crazy to eat peanutbutter and jelly sandwiches. When you are considering Australia you should remember, its a different Country that is also the most remote Country in the World. They have their own foods and their own ways. In fact, if it wasn't for the fact that I am a pretty good cook and that they have McDondalds, burger king, and kentucky fried chicken here, I would probably have starved to death a long time ago lol.

But still, Australia is a very cool place.

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Sep 2, 2008, at 5:14 PM

It is sad to lock things up... when our initial instinct is that everyone is good.

-- Posted by nomad on Tue, Sep 2, 2008, at 4:33 PM

Keep a level head and don't over react, labgirl. Don't make your son the ultimate victim by trying to protect and shield him from the way our world is. Continue to show him right from wrong and let him see your resolve to win out over the crooks.

Get that neighborhood watch group started and show the police that all of you are willing to do your part in keeping the neighborhood safe. Ask the police to come and talk to you and your neighbors and offer advice and suggestions to help keep everyone safe. When they see that you're sincere, they'll reciprocate by supporting your efforts.

-- Posted by slater41 on Tue, Sep 2, 2008, at 4:31 PM

I remember Marshall whenever I was younger, riding my bike after dark and running all over this town, no worries about anything. I had the police take fingerprints and pictures, because I am hoping they will be caught, I'm scared to bring my child up in this kind of a world. It really makes me want to lock him inside and never send him out. A woman can't go in public without some man hollering, stealing a purse, and now I can't sleep at night because of worries of people breaking and entering on or in my property!!!! I shouldn't be so hasty though because I do know that there is alot of great, wonderful people here that are victimized also. It's just a great shame. I would like to start a neighborhood watch, my friends right down the street from me were also victims lastnight, I think if we could get everybody to agree with it, that we could really help out with some of what goes on.

-- Posted by labgirl on Tue, Sep 2, 2008, at 3:43 PM

labgirl and typesetter,

I know exactly how you feel, since I've been victimized also.

I learned to lock my car after the night someone got into it and helped himself to a few things while I was attending a wedding reception. Miraculously the police caught the thief and I got my property back, but that's a rare occurrence, I'm sure.

It seems that thieves have become much bolder nowadays, maybe because of the sheer numbers of people who, in times past, might not have been tempted to break the law. Our legal system being what it is tends to encourage law-breaking, and the end result is that honest people have lost the freedom of being able to trust others to honor that trust.

-- Posted by slater41 on Tue, Sep 2, 2008, at 2:37 PM

labgirl,

Isn't it just a sad fact of our society today that you cannot even trust your neighbors anymore? A lot of people still believe that since we live the small town life that their vehicle will be safe when parked in their own driveway, but this isn't 1965 and we don't live in Mayberry! It's a sad commentary on our world when we must lock up our possessions and that they still may not be safe just because some people don't understand the concept of "thou shalt not steal." I can see my vehicle out the window from where I work, but I still lock the doors everyday. When I visit family members that live in town and I leave my car in their driveway, I lock the doors when I go inside. I know it is upsetting when someone takes your things and I can empathize with you. I know it makes you angry and it should! I don't know what can be done about it, but I just wanted you to know I understand where you are coming from.

-- Posted by Typesetter on Tue, Sep 2, 2008, at 1:59 PM

news, what a coincidence re your service time location. I was in Germany from '61-'63, A Company, 10th Engineer Battalion, 8th Infantry Division, and our battalion headquarters was located in Wurzburg. I was caretaker of the company's quartermaster supply detail. A Company was located in Bamberg when I first arrived over there, and later we moved to Schweinfurt.

Although my German language knowledge was rudimentary at best, I preferred mingling with the natives. In every group there was always at least one person who spoke enough English for all of us to understand one another. The vast majority of those I had the opportunity to share thoughts with were most accepting of having the American military present in their country. I wonder about now, since conditions are dramatically different with the end to the cold war.

Talking a little more about the transit systems over there, I was aware right off that most people used public transportation to go to and from work and other travels. I'd see people driving their cars on weekends and concluded that since public conveyance was so good it made perfect sense to leave the car in the garage.

It was during a trip to Copenhagen that I learned what could have been the primary reason why people didn't drive their cars much. I rented a car while I was there, and before returning it I paid over $2.00 per gallon for the gas to refill the tank. That was a shock, to say the least. This was in 1962 that gas was well over $2./gal. all over Europe, not just in Denmark, so the people over there are well conditioned to paying premium prices. My friend in England recently told me that a gallon of gas costs the equivalent of $9.00 American. All the more reason why this country should be working to develop a comprehensive public transit system.

-- Posted by slater41 on Tue, Sep 2, 2008, at 1:47 PM

I know that this is a little off the subject... but what is with the people here in Marshall anymore? I can't believe that I cannot park my car in my driveway and have to worry about punks breaking into it and stealing out of it! I work so hard to provide for my family and for us to have stuff, and here this kids or whatever just go and steal stuff out of cars and sell it for money just so they don't have to work. I just don't get it!!!! Ok, I'm sorry I just had to vent!!!

-- Posted by labgirl on Tue, Sep 2, 2008, at 1:19 PM

WTF, did your father agree to consider what you had to say about Obama and the need to elect the Democrats? I oftentimes blame the news people for creating a false impression. In their haste to be first with a report they don't bother gathering all the facts before broadcasting the story. Maybe they come along later and retract some errors, but by that time maybe people who saw the initial report formulate their opinions and beliefs based on erroneous information and might not see retractions or corrections.

Now, before all you local news folks round up the rar and feathers, I must say present company is excepted. :)

BTW, do people make a habit of eating that catfish bait? I know some people enjoy eating worms and bugs. :) Not for me, thank you!

-- Posted by slater41 on Tue, Sep 2, 2008, at 1:09 PM

A guy work with just got back from Australia. He brougt back a small jar of vegimite. I've heard about for years and wanted to try it. First time I'm ever actually tasted catfish bait! Yeeecccchh!! It's horrible.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Sep 2, 2008, at 6:38 AM

slater41

Yeah Marshall is pretty special to me and I carry her in my heart no matter where I am.

By the way, I too served in Germany while I was in the service. I was at Emery Kasern in Wurzburg, 1974 to 1976. B Company, 3rd Supply and Transport, 3rd Infantry Division, 3rd Army.

Yeah the train system in Germany is very much like the one in Sydney. Its too bad that in America we don't put enough emphasis on public trans. It is good for the environment and good on the wallet or pocket book as well.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Sep 1, 2008, at 11:48 PM

news, your climate is much like the climate here in south texas, but it may be a bit cooler here during the winter months. When people ask me what the weather is like here, I tell them we have two seasons - one hot, and one not quite as hot.

Even after all these years I still miss the changing seasons. Fall is my favorite and I have many fond memories of playing in the leaves - rake up a big pile and then go jump in, and I remember that smell when they burned.

Yes, I'm sure you're homesick sometimes. Any time your attachment to a place is strong and spans generations like yours, you'll always miss it.

I was born and raised in Slater, born in the house my dad had built three years earlier. My roots are there, and no matter how the town changes and no matter where I might be, it'll always be my home. I've been gone from there for nearly 48 years, but the ties are still strong.

My wife played the violin years ago, and she's now talking about getting hers checked and in good playing order so she can play it again. I joke with her that it's a good thing for me that my hearing is diminished. heh heh heh

I like the fact that you have all that public transportation at your disposal. The love that people in America have for their cars is ridiculous and is responsible for our present energy crisis. Well, I won't flog that dead horse again. When I was in the Army I spent time in Germany, and I was very impressed by their public transit systems. I have a great love of trains, so naturally I loved traveling on the trains, which would take you anywhere you wanted to go. I can well imagine what the system is like there.

This is a coincidence - I'm having a Granny Smith apple as I write this. (smile)

My eyes are telling me it's time to get up from here. See you on the next page!

-- Posted by slater41 on Mon, Sep 1, 2008, at 11:35 PM

NanaDot,

Well the one good thing about living in another country is I don't have to live under Bush or McCain or any American government lol.

As to the new Constitution, I feel confident that our Prime Minister, the Honorable Kevin Rudd and his party, the Labour Party (the aussie equivalent of the democrats) will be looking at a number of things when they get ready to form the new Constitution. In the mean time, the aussies have a pretty good government now and we are very free here. We also have a great ecomony here, socialized medicine (which is fantastic), and a surplus in our National Treasury. So things are pretty good in Oz. I will have dual citizenship by 2010 making me both American and Australian by the time we vote on a new constitution and I will proud to be a part of a new republic.

That will also mean I will be able to cast my vote, my left of center vote, in not one but two countries!

I am really looking forward to that lol.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Sep 1, 2008, at 10:23 PM

slater41

No I have never played the Sydney Opra House -- I wish I was that good lol lol lol. They only have big name solo violinists there. I am pretty much relegated to weddings, parties, and teaching violin. What can I say...it pays the bills.

But thanks for asking.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Sep 1, 2008, at 10:13 PM

Thanks for the glowing report, news across! The pictures and video of Sydney show it to be a very appealing destination. I've always had an interest in visiting the country, and maybe some day I will. One of my lifelong friends will be there at the end of October. They start in Aukland, NZ with a cruise that ends in Sydney, where they'll spend two or three days I believe.

Have you performed at the Opera House?

It's 930pm on Monday here, so, let's see...it would be around 230pm Tuesday there? I'll have to consult the world clock. (smile)

Gotta go tend to Ms. Vivid, the cat.

-- Posted by slater41 on Mon, Sep 1, 2008, at 9:32 PM

I was talking to my dad today who is 74 yrs old. I asked what he thought about the upcoming election. He professed that there were things he liked about both canidiates and went on to say that he doubted he would be able to vote for Obama because he was a muslim. I was heart broken about how uniformed he was. Naturally I corrected the misconception. I know this is probably what he is being told in church and I know alot of others folks that keep forwarding me e-mails that are outright lies about Obama. They never bother to check the facts or maybe they just don't care.

To them I say you are part of the problem. Get off your lazy ***** and do a little research. There is too much at stake. If you do vote for McCain then do it for the right reasons. If you vote for John McCain will you be able to know in your heart that you truly feel he's the right man for the job or will it be because of simple party loyalty? Maybe your scared of change? Change is never easy but it is nescessary. Are you better off than you were 8 years ago? It really boggles the mind that any American would consider giving the republicans another shot. If you have teenage children keep in mind that McCain supports reinstating the draft and probably would not hesitate to draft females. Our miltary has been decimated by these guys but they won't hesitate to keep them in a prepetual state of conflict. War,War,War, Kill,Kill,Kill. This is what America has become. Enough!

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Sep 1, 2008, at 9:00 PM

slater41,

Yes I have photos of me and my lovely Aussie wife on the Sydney Harbour Bridge and at the Sydney Opra House.

I am a solo violinist and as such my Australian wife and I got to concerts at the Sydney Opra House quite often. It is a beautiful building and the accoustics there are said to be the best in the World. The last show we saw there was Nigel Kennedy (perhaps the finest solo violinist in the World). We live about 10 miles from the Sydney Opra House and so we go down there quite a bit.

The Sydney Opra House is very near the Sydney Harbour Bridge and the area in-between is called Circular Quay (prounced "key). It where the Harbour ferries load and unload and where they meet the train system. The ferries can take you almost anywhere in the Sydney area including to Taranga Zoo -- which is on an island and is spectacular. I love riding the ferries -- especially when the water is rough and the boats bounce all over the place -- and they are part of the public transportation system here -- which is also incredible. They even have a rivercat system that is also public transportation and will take a person to various points up the Parramatta river.

Australia is a truly remarkable place to live. Crime here is very low and you can go anywhere you want in the city or suburbs with out fear of being mugged or attacked, and they have the commuter train system which can take you almost anywhere in Sydney very quickly. Many people in Sydney and the suburbs don't own cars as they don't need them here. Of course many people here do have cars too lol. We do -- my car and her car -- but I rarely drive as the bus/train/ferry system is so extensive and inexpensive -- not to mention that even after 3 years I still have trouble driving on the left side of the road.

They have kangaroos here -- that is no secret. There are extensive public parks everywhere in Sydney and in fact the one in our suburb has quite a number of Kangaroos. The biggest kangaroos are the Western Red Kangaroos and they stand 6 feet tall and have a full length of about 12 feet if you include their tails. We have a couple of big reds at our local park and a whole bunch of Eastern Grey Kangaroos which are slightly smaller than the big Reds.

Sydney is the most beautiful city I have ever seen. Its nick-name is the "emerald city" because there are so many trees -- mostly gum trees and palm trees. The weather here is wonderful. its Winter right now and most days are sunny and warm -- mildly warm ranging from 65 degrees to 75 degrees during the day and usually in the high 50s to 65 at night -- and that is in the coldest month of July (yep we have Christmas in Summer here). The Summers have occasional hot days but its usually not hot very long and the average Summer time daytime temp is 80. Sydney has hundreds of beaches along the South Pacific Ocean which is crystal clear blue and the beaches are easy to get to using the extensive public transport system here. People surf and swim here year round too. It is always green here. The trees don't lose their leaves in the Winter and the grass doesn't turn brown. In fact, I have to mow my lawn year round lol. So even when its Winter, it looks and feels like Summer.

At the Western edge of Sydney are the Blue Mountains. We go there a lot too. They look a lot like the Smokey Mountains and during the depression the Australian Government built thousands of miles of well built trails through out the mountains. In fact, the mountains system is so extensive that many areas are to this day unexplored. But the best thing about the mountains is that you can hop on a commuter train and be there in about an hour and the cost is negligable. In fact, you could spend your morning hiking in the mountains here and your afternoon on a South Pacific beach all in the same day with no problem -- Winter or Summer -- the weather is great!

The Aussies are the nicest people I have ever known. They are very easy going and pleasent -- real laid back. The love their "footy" which is their version of football and their game of Cricket -- which is sort of like baseball but slower and more boring lol. Cricket games can go on for days and often as long as a week. The Aussies love to drink also. There are open air pubs and cafes everywhere because the weather is so temperate. However, they have very few dui problems here because of the public transport system and very strict penalties for violations of their dui laws. A dui or dwi can land one in prison here -- they mean business when it comes to keeping the roads safe. But you rarely ever hear about someone having that problem because the people are very conciencious about obeying the law and besides, a person can easily just catch a bus not far from their door step and take the bus to any pub they want to go to -- day or night and most of the pubs have their own busses. When we want to go out, we just call the pub and they send their shuttle bus over to our house to pick us up, and then when we are ready to head home we just hop on the shuttle bus and they take us right back to our house. My wife and I don't drink much but we do enjoy a glass of wine once in a while at the open air pubs and we never set one foot in the car when we do -- we don't have to.

Yes Australia is a very wonderful place to live, but yes I do often miss my fellow Americans and I am always home-sick for Marshall. My family goes way back in Marshall's history and I was the last one to live in Marshall. I have family at both cemetaries in Marshall and going all the way back to the mid 1800s in our oldest cemetary down by the park. While I do love Sydney, Marshall will always be my real home, and while I may admire the Australian people, no-one will ever replace the good people of Marshall in this Marshalite's heart. I guess that is why I keep the Marshall Democrat bookmarked and why we make a point of visiting Marshall when ever we take an American vacation.

Yes, slater41, I really am a long ways from home -- but make no mistake about it -- i am loving it lol!!

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Sep 1, 2008, at 8:56 PM

news across, you're a long way from home.

You make an interesting point when you say that being American in a foreign country can be hard. I have friends in Germany and the UK and they report the same thing. They're natives of those areas, but they say that respect for America is very low.

A year or so ago I was watching the Charlie Rose discussion program and he had some foreign journalists on, talking about Obama and how excited Europeans were that he could be the next president.

All of us know that Bush and Co. realize how they appear to people around the world, but they seem to have no concern at all. It baffles me that ANYONE with good sense would support a party that created and maintains without a care the perceptions that people worldwide have of the US.

ND is right about foreign exchange students not wanting to come here. Lots of talk has taken place regarding the state of education in this country, and what I've heard educators say sounds like some believe in NCLB and some don't. More of the blind allegiance to the party, you suppose?

The more we discuss all the issues facing our nation, the more there seem to be, and the more severe they seem to become as we share information and thoughts.

So, have you had your photo taken as you stood atop that bridge with the Sydney Opera House in the background? (smile)

-- Posted by slater41 on Mon, Sep 1, 2008, at 7:37 PM

slater41,

I am not suprised to learn that European students consider a year in American highschool a "lost year."

I am an American living in Sydney, NSW, Australia. The Australian people have a long history of standing by America - even when America is wrong. They fought along side us in WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam, Gulf War 1, Afgansistan, and Iraq. They have long admired our Constitution and in fact even now the Aussies are planning a new Constitution modeled after the American Constitution and declaring Australia a republic in 2010 (verses a constitutional monarchy which is what they are right now). They have been historically, typically, profoundly pro-American -- but not anymore.

What I am hearing here from the Aussies is disgust for the Bush Administration and the Republican Party and what this party has done to America and the World. Most Aussies I have talked to (and remember, I live in Australia, so everyone I talk with here is an Aussie), have come to the point where they despise America. America under the Republican "leadership" over the last 8 years has reduced the general Aussie attitude from one of respect and honor for America to fear and loathing of what they often refer to as "the World's Bullyboy." With out exception, Bush is regarded here in Australia as a brutal dictator. Australians laugh at our education system and Americans are generally regarded here in Australia as being dumb as a sack of hammers. That doesn't mean we are dumb, but they do regard Americans -- in general -- as "under educated." Frankly, the Republican Party in America -- through their policies -- have made life for Americans here in Australia very difficult at best, and from what I am hearing from American friends living in Europe, its the same there. Predjudice in Australia against Americans is now at an all time high. I even lost a job not long ago because my boss didn't like Americans -- his words, not mine. I wish I could say my former boss's attitude is the exception here but in fact it has become the rule. What ever good reputation our Nation once had in the World is now gone -- completely -- and the Australians seem quite bewildered at how Americans allowed their Country to sink so low.

Yes Repubican rule in America has been a very sad chapter in our History but we now have a chance to change the road we are on. Aussies here desperately ask me all the time if I think Obama will win -- I hear the desperate hope in their

voices when they ask.

All I can tell them is I hope so.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Sep 1, 2008, at 7:10 PM

ND, I don't know if the Jaywalking segment is put on, but if not...

A year or two ago I read a report with results of a study done on 2-year and 4-year college graduates, testing their ability to perform moderately complex tasks, like balancing a checkbook and understanding the terms of a credit card agreement.

The conclusion was that about 75% of the 2-year students failed the test, and around 50% of the four-year students failed.

Perhaps Leno's skit isn't so far-fetched after all.

-- Posted by slater41 on Mon, Sep 1, 2008, at 7:09 PM

I've watched about 1/3 of it (a 2 hr 40 min film), and I kept thinking, Gee, if I didn't know better I'd say that Cheney wrote the transcript. There's a primary focus on regimentation, as is standard fare for the military, even today's version.

I've been gathering photos and file footage of WWII and have collected a fair amount. This is a part of history I haven't spent much time studying, so I'm hoping to develop a better understanding. I spotted a video about Japan from like 1940-1945 and I'll be downloading it.

I was born four days after Pearl Harbor, so I don't have any memories of that period, other than what I've been told by my family.

-- Posted by slater41 on Mon, Sep 1, 2008, at 6:52 PM

While I'm babbling here, I'm burning a dvd of a video file I found in a forum, a WWII German training film used to "condition" the minds of the new Soldaten being primed for shipment to the Eastern Front. It has an English soundtrack, and is pretty interesting.

-- Posted by slater41 on Mon, Sep 1, 2008, at 6:28 PM

ND,I don't mind the use of low-grade fear tactics when the application would inspire people to positive action. heh heh

-- Posted by slater41 on Mon, Sep 1, 2008, at 6:23 PM

news across, I can't agree more about what's at stake this time around. The complacency of the American people has brought us to where we are today. We've turned our backs on the politicians and compromised our strongest form of checks and balances by letting a few elect the wrong people.

The local contingent of Democrats here in San Antonio is doing a pretty good job of getting people involved, and I sure hope that's the way it's going everywhere.

I worry that people don't put any stock in what Obama is saying, figuring it's just more hype. I wasn't on his side in the beginning (Biden was my choice, even though I knew he didn't have a chance) because the first few times I heard him talking, he didn't say anything, and it's taken him a long time to finally get around to really making his points. And that, I believe, is primarly due to people not listening, like I'm guilty of.

It really has come down to the people needing to take back their country, and I believe we will.

-- Posted by slater41 on Mon, Sep 1, 2008, at 6:17 PM

slater41,

No, I certainly don't believe that law enforcement "interpret" the law correctly. In fact, just the opposite. Often times, the very reason cases end up in front of the Appellate Courts and sometimes the Supreme Court is because the police and the trial judge failed to properly follow the law and the Constitution.

A side note: I too was very disapointed in the way the High Court behaved in the 2000 election. They did 2 things that bothered me most -- 1.) for the first time in history, they reversed earlier precidents regarding state elections (if precidents are no longer the rule of thumb for decisions, what is?) and 2.) the 5 Republicans on the Court at that time made their ruling not based on the Constitution or precident, but rather for partisian reasons -- they stood by their party rather than standing by the law and the American people.

As I keep saying, this is one of the most crucial reasons we all need to make sure we, our families, our friends, and our co-workers get out and vote straight Democrat ticket this election -- or we may not have a democracy left by the next Presidential election.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Sep 1, 2008, at 5:55 PM

NanaDot,

No doubt it generally takes a long time for the constitutionality of laws to be decided by the courts and I agree 100% that the philosphical view of the majority of Justices on the Supreme Court definately influences how they rule. Republicans have been appointing most of the Justices for quite a few years now and they have been appointing strict constructionsists -- and those are scary folks -- they believe the Constitution is a rigid document and the take a so-called "literal view" of the Constitution -- which means they aren't interested in reading the huge pile of essays our Founding Fathers wrote on what they meant by various portions of the Constitution (maybe because they don't want to know the truth because it conflicts with their authoritarian views). A good example of a strict constructionist is Judge Bork who writes the the free speech clause of the First Amendment applies only to political speech -- how is that for scary?

That is why it is so important in this election that we all get out and vote straight Democrat ticket at the voting booth.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Sep 1, 2008, at 5:44 PM

It was my conclusion that news across was confusing my post with the post of modemocrat, who brought up the points of the Constitution.

-- Posted by slater41 on Mon, Sep 1, 2008, at 5:44 PM

newsacross,

Obviously you don't understand my point.

I'm not disputing your information; what I said is that no matter how a law reads, it can be interpreted/distorted to fit a particular situation. I didn't accuse the police of illegal search and seizure. As a matter of fact, I didn't accuse the police of anything other than what appears to be the misapplication of a law.

Let me refresh your memory regarding the Supreme Court ruling on the Florida vote recount after the 2000 general election. Bush appealed the court's decision upholding a statewide recount, and the court allowed his appeal, citing he'd been denied due process, and promptly ordered the recount halted. Gore was not allowed to challenge, and the rest is history, as they say.

This is an example of what I was referring to in my earlier post.

It appears that we're both guilty of stating a case through implication. Your post read like you believe every law enforcement agency interprets the laws fairly and evenly. That was my conclusion based on what you said. If you want me to draw the proper conclusion, i.e. what you mean, then you'll need to come more to the poiont.

I thought my inferences were clear enough, but evidently not in this case.

Also, don't misunderstand this point - my comment about your post was not an attack, but merely an observation based on your choice of words. If we both missed the mark, we'll just have to strive to do better next time. Right?

-- Posted by slater41 on Mon, Sep 1, 2008, at 5:16 PM

slater41,

In response to my comment about the legality of unconstitutional laws and the order of supremecy of laws in our system of jurisprudence you write, "newsacross, you're idealistic and naive if you honestly believe there's never been, nor will there ever be, a breach of the law perpetrated by law enforcement."

I never said said anything about breaches of the law by law enforcement and I have no idea what you are talking about. Nor have I ever said there have never been breaches of the law by law enforcement, in fact, just the opposite.

My comment was meant to help share information regarding how our laws operate in relation to the supreme law of our land, the Constitution. Clearly there are provsions of the Patriot Act that have already been struck down by the Courts and rightly so. In addition, I believe any provision that allows the police to search homes with out a warrant are, in most cases, unnconstitutional.

Please take a look at the sources (there are 15 credible, qualified sources I list in the footnotes) and tell me what it is specifically you don't understand about what these experts are saying and then I will be very happy to respond.

As it is now, I have no idea what you are talking about.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Sep 1, 2008, at 4:23 PM

Thank you as well, KF! I'd have to say your description of my posts is over the top, but I'll do my best to live up to it. :)

-- Posted by slater41 on Mon, Sep 1, 2008, at 2:59 PM

ND, I meant that the MN incident is isolated in terms of statistical significance. You're quite right about other cases, but in the grander scheme of law enforcement, they're isolated cases.

That's not to say we should condone such activity; it should never occur to begin with, but considering the personality profiles of some who wear the badge, it should be a matter of definite concern.

Here in San Antonio we have a pretty large police force which is well-managed for the most part. I've lived here for 26+ years, and during that time we've seen instances of individual members exceeding their authority and/or committing criminal/immoral/unethical acts, for which they were duly and properly punished, but there's never been any known instances of the police chief encouraging subversion.

When I was in school during the mid-1960s I worked for the Kansas City, MO police department for a couple of years, and I directly witnessed some incidents by individuals behaving in ways contrary to the rules - not necessarily violating the laws but their actions were close to being beyond the boundary.

Edwin R. Newman (sp), the former newsman, was obsessed with semantics and wrote a book entitled, Strictly Speaking. He strongly believed in the expression, say what you mean and mean what you say; implied meanings were inadequate and only served to muddle any discussion.

When I spoke of the incident in MN by describing it as isolated, I was speaking in generalities, IMPLYING that these cases can occur because of an interpretation of the language of the law. I didn't specifically say what I meant.

Shame on me! :)

-- Posted by slater41 on Mon, Sep 1, 2008, at 2:16 PM

slater41: Add my kudos to the others. Your posts are thoughtful, intelligent and civil. As a former resident of the area, you certainly have a lot to contribute to the discussion, but even if you were not from the area, you'd still be very welcome.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Mon, Sep 1, 2008, at 11:40 AM

...and thanks to N.D., Music, and OKReader for your replies to my manners post. (smile)

-- Posted by slater41 on Mon, Sep 1, 2008, at 11:36 AM

newsacross, you're idealistic and naive if you honestly believe there's never been, nor will there ever be, a breach of the law perpetrated by law enforcement.

Changes to the Patriot Act in 2006 gave domestic agencies more discretion in applying the law. What occurred in MN is no doubt an isolated instance, but at first glance we see what appears to be contradictory statements by police personnel. Maybe we'll eventually know the truth to both sides of that situation, or maybe not. I wonder if a convention of the NAACP, for instance, would be afforded the same zealous protection.

Honest citizens SHOULD have no fear of the law, but when the current administration carries on like it has, citizens have reason to be wary. OKReader says we could be headed toward a dictatorship if the Republicans remain in control. I say with Hitler's cousin sitting in the VP chair we're already too close.

If everyone played strictly by the rules, and the rules provided for even-handed treatment across the board, AND were enforced in that manner, then there would be no need for this discussion.

Thanks for the lecture, but I won't be taking it to heart, much the same as I don't take what's in the history books as being set in stone.

-- Posted by slater41 on Mon, Sep 1, 2008, at 11:25 AM

Oklahoma Reader,

Regarding your comment about electing Senator Obama, I agree 100%.

In fact, I believe a McCain Presidency will continue in the direction of the past 8 years and lead directly to a dictatorship. If McCain is elected, it is my opinion that we may never have a real election again. The next election may go something more like elections in the former Soviet Union where you are given a list of people you must vote for.

I plan on voting straight Democratic ticket this election as I believe getting as many Republicans out of our Government as possible is imperative to the continuation of our Democratic Republic.

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Sep 1, 2008, at 6:52 AM

News Across: You are absolutely correct in your comment regarding the Constitution and the Patriot Act. Unfortunately there are at least four, and possibly five people sitting on the bench at the Supreme Court that would likely find some convoluted way to disagree. If they were willing to climb the mountain that resulted in the disenfranchisement of the voters of our nation concerning the two thousand election, this would be an easy hill for them to climb. We must elect Obama to maintain a semblance of our democracy. John McCain has promised to nominate people like Clarence Thomas to the Supreme Court should he be elected.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Sep 1, 2008, at 4:17 AM

White Tornado: Way back on August 25th we had an exchange of ideas concerning the efficacy of corporate taxation. I posted, and you promptly responded, for which I offer a belated thank you. Other matters were pressing so I was forced to make a mental note to respond later. This evening the mental note finally surfaced. Therefore with my sincere apology for the delay I offer this rejoinder.

You had said that it is of no value to tax corporations because that tax would be passed back to the consumer of the corporate product in the form of higher product price. My post did not state that the statement was incorrect, but rather that it was incomplete without modification, because I believe there are exceptions. Following that I offered several exceptions.

A portion of your response was "Now you mention things that are not for the common person but luxuries for the rich. Again a reasonable concern but who decides what is excessive?" My response is that is the duty of congress, and there is ample precedent wherein congress has addressed similar issues. Concerning that same example I had presented you expressed concern for the labor contingent that manufactures such luxury items with the insinuation that jobs would be lost. Your example product was a six hundred dollar shower curtain. I do not believe production would be curtailed because of additional corporate tax in that case, even if said tax was passed on to the consumer. The rich would not leave the product because it cost a few dollars more, I believe they would more likely buy more because of its increased exclusivity.

You raised the question in years farmers have a bumper crop, should they pay more taxes? I reply, of course not . Increased production is not a reason to raise taxes. I remind you that I said there were exceptions to your blanket statement, not that it was incorrect.

You closed that posting with "Very basic observation, take away the profit potential and you'll stifle the reasons to work hard and innovate if there's risk." Again I have no quarrel with that. It is not the same situation as when the potential has been realized, and the profit level has become obscene, and harmful to the American consumer. My entire point is predicated on my belief that unbridled greed must be contained, and yes punished. You as a libertarian may disagree with the concept, I as a populist must support it.

A short time later you posted a second response. It had to do with the thought that I had included concerning my belief that corporations that flee to the Cayman Islands to escape taxes should be punished by a tax for their lack of civic responsibility. You raised the point that due to our devalued dollar some companies are coming back. You queried "How long do you think that will last as soon as we pump up the taxes if they make the money?" I think it will last as long as the dollar remains devalued, and that they are making a reasonable profit. The key is the devalued dollar. Your further statement dealt with the torrent of promises to protect American jobs, which I had not addressed, is complex, and a subject for another day. BTW I spent a single trimester at CMS. Do you think it made us ungodly and skeptical?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Sep 1, 2008, at 3:53 AM

REGARDING THE PATRIOT ACT:

It looks like its time for a little poli-sci 101 folks.

The Patriot Act, which is merely a bunch of changes to a bunch of already existing federal acts(5), is INFERIOR TO THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION(1).

The Constitution is the SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND(1). It is superior to all Federal Acts, State Statutes, County laws, and city laws (1). If a Federal Act, duly passed by Congress and signed by the President, is in conflict with any portion of the Constitution, then the law passed by Congress is null and void and not a law at all(1). However, the law in question must first be challenged in the Courts in order to determine if it is in fact in conflict with the Constitution because only the Courts can interpret the Consitution(2). Let's say for example that the Patriot Act included a provision that stated that if one is suspected of possible terrorist activity then the government doesn't require a court ordered warrant to search the suspects home (a provision the Patriot Act does contain(5)). Well if you read the 4th Amendment which is the SUPREME LAW regarding search and seizure you will see it says(1),

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

In addition, the courts have ruled that this means that law enforcement must have a warrant, duly signed by a judge, to search the suspect's home(3) (unless the police can establish probable cause such as seeing a fleeing suspect they are in pursuit of go running into your home or seeing a crime being committed through your window with their natural senses(4), ect). So, we might say, hey that part of the Patriot Act is unConsitutional -- and it is. Never-the-less, the Courts are the ones who must declare that it is in violation of the Constitution and that is a long process. However, there are a pile of challenges to the Patriot Act in the Courts right now challenging a great deal of the acts provisions, and ultimately portions such as the one in this example will be struck down if the Courts find them in conflict with our Constitution -- most likely resulting in the reversal of any conviction in which unlawful evidence was used in the conviction.

So folks when someone tells you that the 4th Amendment doesn't apply to the Patriot Act and that the Patriot Act has "changed" the way law enforcement can behave, you just remember what you read here today -- the Constitution is superior to anything in the Patriot Act -- most of which this American believes will ultimately be struck down by the Courts finally ending one of the most shameful, anti-American laws ever passed by a United States Congress.

(1) http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html, http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/co..., http://www.linecamp.com/merchants/freedo...

(2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marbury_v._..., http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects..., http://supreme.lp.findlaw.com/supreme_co...

(3) http://www.bartleby.com/65/se/searchwa.h..., http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.ht..., http://www.icje.org/id56.htm

(4) http://www.lectlaw.com/def2/p089.htm, http://www.abanet.org/publiced/practical..., http://www.flexyourrights.org/definition...

(5) http://www.asksam.com/cgi-bin/as_web6.ex...

-- Posted by news across on Mon, Sep 1, 2008, at 2:47 AM

Slater 41 you are no outsider. You don't sit on the fringes and snipe at others comments. You are in the middle of things, and bring your own original thoughts. I do not always agree with you, but I respect your intellect enough to in every instance give your thoughts serious consideration.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Sep 1, 2008, at 12:57 AM

Slater41, you're okay in my book!

-- Posted by "When the Music Plays..." on Sun, Aug 31, 2008, at 9:10 PM

ETIQUETTE

I've been sitting here and thinking about my breach of etiquette.

I'm an outsider, coming from Slater, and I've joined this stream of consciousness by offering my thoughts without first asking for permission.

If, for example, we were at a gathering around the courthouse and a group was conversing about a topic of interest to me, I would be rude to go up and join in without asking.

So, if I've put anybody off, you have my apology.

-- Posted by slater41 on Sun, Aug 31, 2008, at 7:02 PM

modem, it appears as if the "patriot" act provisions were at work in that instance.

Every story has two sides, but we may only ever know the one side, and it can be as inaccurate as it pleases.

Evidently our Constitution is only as relevant as those in power choose to make it.

The last entry in that list of Bush scandals I posted recently was about Bush instructing some staffers to see that the CIA creates documents to support his reasons for invading Iraq. This information is supposed to be in a book by Ron Suskind, due out sometime in the next few months.

This administration has operated from the beginning as if it's above the law. Personally, I believe that anyone proved to have been involved in criminal activities should at the very least lose their retirement benefits. We know the likelihood of any high-ranking government official ever going to jail is remote, so the approach could be like the government used against organized crime members (e.g., Al Capone jailed for tax evasion) and take away their retirement benefits. I can't imagine why the taxpayers should foot the $350,000. or so per-year retirement for Bush, after what he's done.

-- Posted by slater41 on Sun, Aug 31, 2008, at 5:23 PM

Right to vote...what about our 'other' rights outlined in the constitution? Ramsey County authorities conducted raids across Minneapolis and St. Paul Friday and Saturday as a pre-emptive strike against disruptive protests of the Republican National Convention. Five were arrested; more than 100 were handcuffed, detained and photographed....without any charges being filed. The sheriff reported: "a criminal enterprise made up of 35 self-described anarchists...intent on committing criminal acts before and during the Republican National Convention." Why were only five arrested? What does this say about freedom of speech, freedom of assembly and the other rights we are entitled to under our constitution?

-- Posted by modemocrat on Sun, Aug 31, 2008, at 3:35 PM

THE RIGHT TO VOTE

That phrase has a hollow ring to it, a hypocritical tone when you consider who it was meant for in the first place. We've come a long way as a nation over the past 400 years, but not so far in some ways as well. Here we are four centuries later having accomplished some of the most amazing technological feats, but in the case of human understanding and fair play we're still stuck in the 1600's.

We went to war with ourselves over the issue of one race enslaving another, and 150 years later we STILL make race an issue. The cry is for change, but just how serious are we about real change? Not very, in my opinion, and obviously in the opinions of others who voice theirs here.

The first change is as ND suggests - each of us MUST change the way we think about our participation in the collective responsibilities to our society. When it comes time to vote, we have the duty to be prepared, to be prepared by informing ourselves about candidates and issues to the fullest extent possible, but always keeping an nopen mind in that process. Of course it's impossible to know about a particular candidate or issue if the information you're receiving is being provided by some special interest group pushing for that candidate or issue; hence, the need to be ever-vigilant.

Many people excuse themselves from participating by telling themselves that their vote doesn't matter anyway, so why bother. Politicians know this and count on that group not becoming involved, and the result is the continuation of business as usual. Way too many people have remained disengaged, and way too many young people have felt disenfranchised, but that could be changing when we see record numbers of people registering to vote.

I believe we can safely conclude that Obama will not effect the level of change he speaks about in four short years, or even eight years. We've been mired in that abstraction of "manifest destiny" for so long that we don't even know what rational thinking and lucid action is all about!

So, the first step is that of becoming prepared to participate - learning about the candidates and issues, REALLY learning, not just listening to what our neighbors and friends are saying. We have the "right" to vote, but it's really more like an obligation. Our government in Washington is obligated to do its best for all of the citizens, and in turn our obligation as informed and active citizens is to ensure that we elect the people most qualified and most sincere about maintaining the welfare of this great nation.

That's our OBLIGATION, not just our right. We can step up to the voting machine and cast our ballot on our feeling, but only so long as we know without doubt that our feeling is based on our honest and best effort to be prepared.

-- Posted by slater41 on Sun, Aug 31, 2008, at 2:36 PM

White Tornado: You hit it right on the head when you asked who *does* have experience to be president. Only a former President can make that claim.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sun, Aug 31, 2008, at 2:07 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mw6wm3msj...

THIS IS A NEWS STORY ABOUT WHAT OUR TROOPS ACTUALLY THINK ABOUT OBAMA AND MCCAIN! See for yourself..it's nice to have proof instead of "word of mouth", from myself or anyone else. Worth looking at!

-- Posted by bsc1223 on Sun, Aug 31, 2008, at 2:06 PM

All this talk about adultry and character traits is a bit naive in the context of past presidents. Read "The Teapot Dome Scandel" for things that were going on in the Harding years. Read the stories of JFK in office. Even Harry Truman was noted for whiskey and gambling. Lyndon Johnson had his weakness' if you want to call them that. He swore like a drunken sailor when out of the public eye.

There was far more going on in the past but it was kept away from the public whereas today all reporters crave the chance to break such stories. Look how goody-goody Carter was and yet how poor he was as a president at getting anything done. (Oh, right! he was the one that lusted in his heart a time or two!)

As far as having foreign policy experience whether Obama, Palin, Biden or McCain I suggest none have much if any. But then show me a President that did have prior to being elected. GW? Clinton? Reagan? Carter? I say no one except possibly the one's with a little military experience, Truman, Ike, Teddy Roosevelt, Bush Sr. due to his CIA background or JFK. But none of them were in a position to make any decisions or sign any treaties.

As far as change, how much change can we expect from someone who's been part of the current problem for 36 years in Congress, Biden?

-- Posted by White Tornado on Sun, Aug 31, 2008, at 1:36 PM

I have been enjoying the postings of many bloggers and find it great to see the many different opinions. I can only hope that you have used the same energy to shape your local governments.

NanaDot: I am not a fan of McCain nor of any in the current field seeking higher office. I just have a strong feeling for our vets. Yes, I have written, called, and talked to my congressman about better equipment for our troops. Has anyone else? Problem is he is a democrat and feels we have spent to much on the war already.

I take offense though when a Democratic Senator comes out and accuses Vietnam vets of being war criminals. Saying they all should be tried as such except himself since he is reporting the "crime". Then same Senator endorses Obama and nothing gets said.

I have spoken to Marines who were in Iraq when Obama visited. He cared very little for what they had to say and what they were doing, only for the photo ops that could be arranged. These same marines said many things happened but only those that benefited Obama were reported. They would not explain.

These men who have served our country deserve respect. They have fought for your right to discuss politics regardless of race, creed, or color. I will not let someone say a veteran did not have "real job". It is as real as that of any policeman, firefighter, paramedic, oook, laborer, factory worker, bus driver, or teacher. If being a veteran is not having had a real job then maybe your job, or mine, is not real either.

I don't believe 99% of what the internet has and yes I do check snopes.com. It does seem lots don't. Many have posted here.

You may not agree with their politcs and that is great. That is what makes America great. Just don't disrespect our vets. Thank a vet for your freedom to speak out.

One last thing, NanaDot, keep posting. Right or worng keep posting. That is what freedom is all about. This goes for averyone else.

-- Posted by ghostwriter1978 on Sun, Aug 31, 2008, at 1:06 PM

"You ask me, "Did you feel the same way towards Bill Clinton that you do McCain when Clinton went on national television, wagged his finger in our face and said "I did not have sexual relations with that woman!" only to find out that he did?"

My unequivocal answer is YES."

Thanks for your response news across and I appreciate the thoughtful manner in which you state your case. I have met a few people who have excoriated McCain (and rightly so) and made an issue of his morality yet years ago, did everything they could to validate Mr. Clinton's behavior once it was clear he was guilty. I simply viewed that position as hypocritical. You and I are on the same page here so we have a platform from which to discuss our differences of opinion in other areas.

I too am an independent. I feel let down by both parties - they are pretty much serving themselves on our dime. I don't like Mr. Obama's policies simply because he has the most liberal voting record in the Senate and his running mate has the third most liberal record. Sometime when I have more time, I might pick apart some of their statements and explain my position. On the other hand when McCain won the nomination I thought the Republicrats must have decided, "who is the worst candidate we can run?" I was just about ready to sit out the presidential election or at least write in a name. Mrs. Palin has given me pause to reconsider. If that thought makes me a "right winger" in someone's eyes then so be it - however, I tend view myself as a libertarian (small "L").

We are truly reduced to voting for the lesser of two evils and obviously the country is very divided in its opinion of what constitutes "evil". I said it in an earlier post, no matter who wins, 50% of the nation is going to be PO'd. I'm using "evil" only as a metaphor. I don't think Mr. Obama or Mr. McCain are "evil" in the sense that Hitler and Stalin, were "evil" (although people like Michael Moore seriously make that comparison). But misguided policies and poor judgment abounds and it can result in unintended consequences of dire proportions for the nation.

NanaDot - you referred to the president reinstating the War Powers Act for unlimited power. I'm willing to make a friendly wager that regardless of who is elected this year, those powers will not be rescinded. We simply do not have any track record of any branch of government (regardless of which party held the reins) ever voluntarily reducing its power or reach into the daily lives of its citizens. I was stunned at how much government grew under Clinton. I was angered that it grew even faster under Bush.

Last thing, we pin a lot of hopes on the presidential elections. But we have to be deeper if we want the country to change and succeed. if we the people do not stay on the backs of whoever is elected and keep pressure on them, they will do what suits them, special interests and hostile global entities at the expense of our incomes and personal liberties. That's a big part of why we have some of the issues we do now. For too many Americans, life is all about a weekend at the lake, playing games, or keeping up with the latest gossip on Britney Spears or Lindsay Lohan, etc., etc., and nothing more matters.

What scares me worse is when those kinds of people go into a voting booth and throw the switch based on how they "feel" that day.

-- Posted by Black Rat Snake on Sun, Aug 31, 2008, at 11:22 AM

I, personally, am at a point where I could care less who has had affairs, etc. This country is in a mess! If I had to chose between a president who had affairs and did good for this country and a president who had the perfect personal life, but misleads the people and the country in the situation it's in...i'm just fine with the first choice. Is it "moral"? No. But, I can live with knowing a president had an affair because it doesn't not effect me, personally. What does disturb me, is the idea of our families being in Iraq, STILL, gas prices, and every other thing that has happened with the current president. There is a skeleton in everyone's closet. Speaking of the president not going to attend what he was supposed to, today...don't you find it absurd how his "people" allowed a city to drown?? Yes, Obama said that. It's the truth. McCain? Well..Obama said it best too..that McCain does deserve our respect. Indeed, he does. Does that mean he deserves our vote? No! My dad was drafted to Vietnam. Was he a POW? No. But, my mother and his parents and loved ones were a mental POW, with him being drafted at a very young age and my mother pregnant with me, and me not seeing me dad until I was 2 or 3. ALL of the people deserve the same respect and reverence that were in that war, regardless of the circumstances. McCain is ALIVE! That, in itself is a blessing! He's will not get a sympathy vote from me. Nor a vote for his so-called, "experience". Let's all vote for CHANGE. This will effect everyone. I live in a city where I see veteran's allowed to live on the street. This happens all over the USA! Bush doesn't ever seem to address that and if he ever has, I don't see any action done about it! I've been inside a Veteran's office in my city before and these people are treated like dirt. It breaks my heart. Vote for CHANGE!!

-- Posted by bsc1223 on Sun, Aug 31, 2008, at 10:58 AM

Surprise, surprise, surprise. Our president & vice-president are so concerned about America they cannot take time out from their busy schedule to attend the Republican National Convention because of Hurricane Gustav. I wasn't aware that Minnesota was in a hurricane zone. Maybe they can send "Your doing a great job Brownie" to stand in for them.

-- Posted by modemocrat on Sun, Aug 31, 2008, at 10:29 AM

Kathy your assumption is that one is not married until the ceremony, however that is inaccurate. In most States, you are actually legally regarded as married from the moment you both sign and file the marriage license.

However, whether or not McCain actually crossed that thin line and committed bigamy is really not important, but rather for many Americans the issue is his poor character which is marked by a lifetime of questionable behavior often characterized by walking a thin line between lawful and unlawful behavior. Clearly, he committed adultery and for many Americans that is unacceptable behavior and makes him unfit for the Presidency -- an office to which we have the right as a Nation to hold people to a higher standard than we might hold our neighbor to and for obvious reasons.

Its sad that over the last 8 years we have reached the point where we now split hairs over such things as whether or not McCain was a bigamist, or worse, whether or not slowly drowning someone constitutes torture, or whether or not the President has the right in time of war to single handedly recind laws with out a vote in Congress (I refer to Bush's early, multiple violations of Title 50, Chapter 36 (FISA) of Federal Acts). I have come to wonder recently what insanity has taken control of our National thinking when we arrive at a point where basic human rights, paid for in the blood of patriots, no longer have any value, and we excuse behavior that once would have resulted in immediate impeachment and removal from office. Frankly, in all my years, and I am in my mid 50's, I never, ever thought we would reduce our National values to the point they seem to be at today, and when we are talking about the Presidency, given the lawlessness of the current Administration over the last almost 8 years, character is of absolute importance.

Now we have an individual running for President who may or may not have actually crossed a few lines into the unlawful side of the lines and we think its ok that he came close to crossing those lines but perhaps not across them. Is this the America we really want? Is this the kind of person we want in the White house? Do we really want someone who is not only of the same party as Bush and Cheney, but who has actively worked hard to deliver to them legislation than now has millions of Americans like me scratching their heads and wondering what the heck happened to the once great Nation we could be proud of?

Kathy, this election may be crucial to the survival of our Democratic Republic as we know it. The decisions we make now may mean the difference between a dictatorship and a free Nation, and given such stakes, character does matter. Let's make sure we really think this thing over before we walk into that voting booth. Let us pray we make the right decision.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Aug 31, 2008, at 8:45 AM

That's true, I'll give. But standing as an independent, I wish both sides would stop playing the "inexperienced" card to their own downfall.

-- Posted by "When the Music Plays..." on Sun, Aug 31, 2008, at 8:40 AM

When the music play: Did you also count Obama's years in the Illinois legislature (1997-2004) and Palin's as a mayor? I'd say that's only fair to both sides.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sun, Aug 31, 2008, at 8:36 AM

To anyone out there thinking Sarah Palin is corrupt because she's under investigation, here's what the Chicago Tribune printed:

"Palin's office did come under investigation on claims that she pushed early this year for the firing of an Alaska state trooper -- her former brother-in-law -- who was involved in a bitter child custody dispute with Palin's sister. News reports said the trooper was also accused by the governor's father of using a Taser on his 10-year-old stepson and shooting a moose without a permit."

I couldn't care less about the moose, myself, but if he really tasered his own stepson, I'd have fired him too.

And to anyone thinking she is less experienced than Barack Obama, according to http://www.associatedcontent.com/article... he has technically only served about 225 days worth of actual senate duty (or whatever it's called) and Palin has been governor for two years, equaling 520 days if you assume she took weekends off. Add to that all she's accomplished in those two years, and it looks like Palin has more than twice the executive experience as Obama.

Just thought I'd put to rest some stupid claims.

-- Posted by "When the Music Plays..." on Sun, Aug 31, 2008, at 8:12 AM

news across: You made my point for me - in order for McCain to have committed bigamy, he would have had to be actually married to the two women at the same time, not merely in possession of a license to marry one of them while still married to the other. Charge him with callousness or impropriety for that, if you wish. Again, I am not defending his behavior and not speaking in support of his candidacy, either. But he did not commit the crime of bigamy.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sun, Aug 31, 2008, at 6:41 AM

Black Rat Snake

You ask me, "Did you feel the same way towards Bill Clinton that you do McCain when Clinton went on national television, wagged his finger in our face and said "I did not have sexual relations with that woman!" only to find out that he did?"

My unequivocal answer is YES.

As a married man who tries to live life with the honor my parents, my bible, and experiences have taught me, I am proud to say I have never even considered cheating on my wife in anyway. I have always been loyal to her, and I find loyalty to be an important part of my life.

I found Mr. Clinton's behavior with Monica Lewinski to be shocking and behavior unbecoming a President. However, and this is important, it is not a crime (either a misdemeanor or a felony) for a man -- including the President -- to have an extramarital affair. Nor did I claim that Mr. McCain had committed a crime. In addition, after reading the law regarding perjury and the transcripts of the deposition in which Mr. Clinton was accused of lying, I agree with the United States Senate that he was not guilty of committing the crime of perjury.

However, his behavior was highly immoral and questionable, and I felt at that time as I feel now that a man that would treat his wife that way is not fit to be President.

As to your account of Mr. McCain's divorce and marriage, I recomend you check the court records to get the facts. In addition, I cite 5 independent sources for the facts I have cited in another comment -- scroll down to see them. I strongly recomend you take a look at those as well.

As a voter I have to take a lot of things into account before I cast my vote. Character is important to me. I want a President who is a good family man and who is honest, as well as other honorable characteristics. In deciding such, there are quite a number of factors I look at. When I look at Senator Obama, I see a well educated family man who gave up lucrative career offers in order to serve the good people of Chicago, Illinois, and who now wants to serve all Americans. I see a man who grew up with out his father and grew up to be a dedicated father to his children. In Senator Obama I see a man who is actually in love with his wife verses a marriage of political convinience or monetary gain.

Finally, when deciding what party to support, I look at the Party's Platform. I have viewed both. The Democrats have a progressive platform that puts emphasis on correcting the failed policies of the Republican Party over the last 8 years. I like that.

The 2004 Republican Party platform disgusts me. It represents almost every element of anti-American-traditional values that I can think of. In addition, the leaked 2008 Republican Party platform appears to offer me, the voter, 4 more years of failed Bush/Cheney, Republican policies.

That is why this independent voter is voting straight Democratic ticket this election.

I recommend you do the same.

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Aug 31, 2008, at 2:55 AM

Well Kathy, I don't always fact check as I should...however, in this case I most certainly did.

ACORDING TO COURT RECORDS:

FACT: John McCain divorced his wife on

February 19, 1980.

FACT: John McCain, under oath, stated that he and

his wife Carola cohabitated until

January 7, 1980.

FACT: John McCain's divorce from Carol McCain

was granted on April 2, 1980.

FACT: John McCain obtained his marriage license

to Cindy Hensley (now McCain) on

March 6, 1980 -- almost one month

before his marriage to Carol legally ended.

I don't know about you Kathy, but where I come from if a man is married to 2 women at the same time for even 1 day we call that bigamy. In addition, since John McCain has pointed out that he had an "adult" relationship for 9 months prior to his ceasing to cohabitate with his wife Carol, that also makes him an adulterer.

I know that is certainly not the kind of man I want for President.

Sources:

(1) http://thebruceblog.wordpress.com/2008/0...

(2) http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/articl...

(3) http://www.drudge.com/news/109915/mccain...

(4) http://www.pensitoreview.com/2008/07/11/...

(5) http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2008/07/la_...

-- Posted by news across on Sun, Aug 31, 2008, at 2:19 AM

A question for you news across. Did you feel the same way towards Bill Clinton that you do McCain when Clinton went on national television, wagged his finger in our face and said "I did not have sexual relations with that woman!" only to find out that he did?

McCain is responsible for his actions and should have stuck to his wedding vows. He was callous in dumping his wife. But this particular factor must be taken into account. His marital breakup was typical of the Vietnam POW experience. He did not commit bigamy - adultery yes, bigamy no. He married Cindy one month after his divorce from Carol.

She got two houses and $1,325 a month in alimony, $300/month in child support, the furnishings and the Audi. He also agreed to pay an additional $500 month if she could not find a job. We might think this was a cheap settlement, but this is in 1980 dollars, a substantial amount for that time. He agreed to pay $3,500.00 in joint debts, pay their children's college expenses, maintain the children as insurance beneficiaries and agreed to help her pay medical expenses resulting from he wreck. BTW - Carol by all accounts is not bitter and maintains friendly communication with him. That is a real iron lady!

As for Mrs. Palin, certain people seem ready to try and convict her simply because an allegation is under investigation. A disgruntled employee made an allegation against me once, that resulted in a 6 month long investigation. People that knew me and the individual involved knew what was going on, but because the charges seemed "conceivably credible" procedure had to be followed until the matter was resolved. The editor of a newspaper once attributed "statements" to me that were false because it furthered an agenda he had.

Ever since then, I've been loathe to judge people quickly. We get our 60 seconds of sound bytes and snippets from our web sites, presume we know everything going on and pronounce sentence on those we oppose politically before any official investigation is even completed. I stuck up for Clinton when the Lewinsky scandal first emerged and asked "aren't we innocent until proven guilty?" Apparently not any more thanks to 24/7 newscasts. Allegations are enough to hang you.

Last thing, McCain committed his infidelity before he took any public office. Doesn't that put it in the realm of his "private business" And that was 28 years ago. Are we saying that people cannot change or that bad judgments and past indiscretions must always affect and haunt their record for posterity? If so, we will have condemned at least 75% or more of the politicians of BOTH parties. Despite what some have posted here, it is not party affiliation that makes one "clean" or "dirty". Human nature and personal choices does that.

I'm not saying McCain is the morally superior candidate - - the point I'm trying to get across is that much of the information circulating about him and Mrs. Palin is skewed and doesn't present all sides of the story.

-- Posted by Black Rat Snake on Sat, Aug 30, 2008, at 10:52 PM

news across: Again, just to keep the record straight - John McCain was divorced from his first wife in April 1980 and married his current wife the following month. He may not have covered himself in glory in this portion of his life, but he cannot, in all fairness, be labeled a bigamist.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sat, Aug 30, 2008, at 10:16 PM

broke-n-busted,

After reading your comment I had to wonder how much you know about McCain's VP pick, Sarah Palin.

While certainly she is much younger than McCain -- but then who isnt? However, that is about all she has going for her. She also has a lot of bad baggage and that may cost McCain the Presidency.

Sarah Palin is currently under investigation by the Alaskan State Legislature for criminal ethics violations -- an impeachable offense under Alaskan law. In addition, she is facing impeachment hearings which are to be scheduled after October 31, 2008 when the independent investigator's, who was appointed by the Alaskan State Legislature to investigate her, report is due in.

Given the serious baggage McCain is already carrying himself (taking $112,000 in bribes for convicted felon Charles Keating in the 80s, statements by McCain himself that he gave vital military information to the enemy in Vietnam in exchange for favors, his cheating on his wife Carol and then running off with his mistress leaving his wife penniless and in a wheel chair -- and then marrying his mistress before he was even legally divorced from his wife -- aka, biggomy), it is unfathanable that any politician with McCain's own history of corruption and immoral behavior would select a running mate that is under investigation for crimes committed while in office. This leads many of us to wonder if McCain is competent to be President.

Perhaps the worst part of his display of bad judgement is his choice of a corrupt running mate at a time when America is already disgusted and horrified at the corruption of the Bush Administration who itself is alleged to have committed quite a number of crimes. At at time when the American people, as consistantly expressed by the polls, comments and editorials, and the word on the street, are fed up with Republican lies and corruption and failed policies -- policies Mccain has voted in the Senate to support 95% of the time -- choosing a running mate that is under investigation for corruption is just plain stupid and incompetent.

Do we really want someone like that at the helm of our ship of state? Well today's polls indicate we do not want someone like McCain at the helm (Gallup poll Aug 30 2008 -- Mccain 41%, Obama 49%). I know I certainly don't want 4 more years of Bush corruption and I think that is exactly what we will get if McCain makes it to the White House -- after all he and his running mate already have a history of corruption and he is being solidly endorsed by the very President Americans fear most -- George Bush and he has vowed to continue the failed Bush/Cheney policies if he is elected.

Does that look like change to you?

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Aug 30, 2008, at 7:45 PM

slater41: We're working on the downtown shopping, too, by getting a farmers market started. We've had one, have another planned for Sept. 6 and another on Oct. 4. We'll work through the winter to get a more formal group together and hope to hold markets at least every couple of weeks, with a weekly market the goal. More feet downtown equals more sales and more sales equals more people willing to open up additional businesses.

It's only a start, but ya gotta start somewhere!

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sat, Aug 30, 2008, at 4:59 PM

OKReader, there could be one other reason why McCain has picked her - maybe he's looking for a new girlfriend.

JK!!!!!!! Just making a sleazy joke, much like Limbaugh or O'Reilly or that ilk would do.

On the surface it does seem that McCain has lost what little reasoning ability he had left.

To b-n-b who says she's a risky choice, but it's for all the marbles, all I can say to that is, a sack of marbles is about all this country would be worth if they're elected.

Finishing 894 out of 899 in his class, I can only surmise that McCain slept through or skipped any economics classes he was offered.

-- Posted by slater41 on Sat, Aug 30, 2008, at 3:55 PM

Thanks very much for the information, Ms. Fairchild. I'm heartened by the fact that the old place is being preserved.

I suppose now all that remains is to get the county residents shopping in Marshall for their goods and services. :)

-- Posted by slater41 on Sat, Aug 30, 2008, at 2:08 PM

news across: Here's another little something everyone should consider as they think about casting their ballots this year. The average age at which a Supreme Court justice leaves the bench (whether through death or retirement), according to the Wall Street Journal (c. 2005), is roughly around 80. In the next 8 years, 4 justices will reach that age, and two will be quite close. The remaining 3 are widely considered to be conservative in outlook and usually vote that way.

Whoever we choose as our president in this election (if he gets two terms) stands a more-than-even chance to appoint at least four, and possibly six, justices. Even if the man we elect this year serves only one term, the chances are excellent he'll get a crack at two of them.

Be careful who you vote for and remember the law of unintended consequences as you do so. :)

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sat, Aug 30, 2008, at 1:12 PM

Oklahoma Reader - I read your rants - both of them. I like her. Let me explain what I see. The one thing that I liked the most about Obama is his youth. McCain has attacked Obama's youth from the get go to try to impact people like me that see Obama's youth as a positive thing. To try to make a positive a negative if you will. So Obama goes out and finds the oldest, crustiest VP he can get (short of propping Jimmy Carter up in the corner) to take some of the pressure off of what could be perceived as a negative trait. McCain fires back with a VP that is young and full of energy. The traits that Obama once claimed all his own and claimed they were good and part of the reason he should be the candidate every American should choose. Now Obama can not lay exclusive claim to those traits. A shrewd move? Maybe. A risky move? You bet - but it's for all the marbles.

-- Posted by broke-n-busted on Sat, Aug 30, 2008, at 11:30 AM

The partisan political season is on. No matter who wins in November, half of the country is going to be PO'd with the results and calling for revolution. Even within the victorious party, about half their number will be thinking, "Well, I'm glad we won, but why couldn't we have found a better candidate?"

All politics are partisan and always have been. But the divisiveness, bitterness, allegations and general rancor seems to me to be increasing each election cycle. It strikes me that the polarization of national viewpoints is getting about as strident as it was in 1859. I'm almost ready to advocate for a "spoiler" third party that will keep the other two from going to excess.

-- Posted by Black Rat Snake on Sat, Aug 30, 2008, at 10:39 AM

WTF my first response to the breaking news concerning McClain's choice to run with him was to say your full screen name out loud, something I rarely do. In retrospect it seems an entirely appropriate response. I am astounded that after his constant diatribe about the precarious state of the world, and that only he had the seasoning, and experience to deal appropriately with said state, he chose someone with absolutely no experience in foreign affairs.

That choice has convinced me that McClain is mentally unbalanced. How dare he to propose to the American people that they elect such a novice to be one tired old heart beat away from making our country's decisions in a volatile world gone mad. A closer look at his self advertised independent perspective, in conjunction with this decision, now confirms that he is not independent, he is irrational. Even his pack of lobbyist advisers would not have gone there, so it had to be his decision,and his alone.

The only other possible excuse (there can be no reason) for this choice is that he is so desperate, and so desirious to be president that he is even willing to risk the future of his nation to achieve his goal. That in itself remains madness, just another form. It scares the hell out of me that the possibility exists that he may suffer from both forms.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Aug 30, 2008, at 10:37 AM

Thank you Kathy for that correction.

I checked and yes Palin does make exceptions for the life of the Mother as regards abortion.

HOEVER PALIN'S POSITION ON ABORTION REGARDING RAPE AND INCEST: My fact checking also confirmed that Palin is absolutely in favor of forcing women who are raped to carrying the pregancy to term and delivering same. In addition Palin supports forcing incest victims to also carry their pregancies to term.

Do we really want to take the chance that such extremest policies might in fact become our National law? Would any man want to have to watch his wife carry the child of rapist -- day in and day out for 9 months? Would any woman want to have to bear the burdon of being inpregnated by a rapist and then carry his developin fetus to term? Would any mother want to watch her daughter carry the baby that was the result of incest? I think not!

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Aug 30, 2008, at 8:21 AM

I don't give alot of creedence to polls. I have never,ever been polled, but the latest pre-convention nationwide poll I have seen shows Obama with an 8 point lead. Given a plus/minus 2 point margin of error. It's frightening to me how many people are still willing to give the Republican party 4 more years. I can only explain it as "mass insanity". The very definition of insanity is when you do the same things over and over again expecting different results.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Aug 30, 2008, at 7:57 AM

news across: Palin's position on abortion does allow an exception to save the life of the mother, and I have found many references to that. I'm not indicating support for any candidate here, just trying to keep the record straight.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sat, Aug 30, 2008, at 7:44 AM

Regarding Palin, Oklahoma Reader makes some very good points.

May I also add that given the corruption of the Republican Party, which is now infamous for its corrupt politicians -- and especially Bush and Cheney -- its no supprise that McCain picked a politician to be his running mate that is every bit as corrupt as he is (I refer your readers to the "Keating 5 scandle in which McCain publically admitted he had accepted $112,000.00 in bribe money from now convicted criminal Charles Keating).

Sarah Palin is currently being investigated by an independent investigator appointed by the Republican lead Alaskan State Legislature for criminal ethics violations. She is alleged to have used her high office for personal gain when she attempted to have her brother in law fired from the State Police on trumped up charges in an effort to deter him financially from seeking custody of his children. The Top State cop in Alaska refused, so Palin fired the State top cop. She also faces impeachment hearings in the Alaskan State Legislature to be scheduled pending the October 31 investigation report.

But the biggest slight to date by McCain is his obvious assumption that women are incapable of making intelligent political decisions. His assumption that just because Palin is a woman, women would forget Palin's anti-womens' rights positions reflected by her position that a woman who will most certainly die from an unhealthy pregancy must accept her own death rather than have an abortion that would save her life. In addition, Palin believes that women who have been raped should be forced to carry to term and deliver the rapist's child.

I hope Mr. McCain will remember that we the American People are sick and tired of the now standard, corrupt Republican politicians he so admires, and we reject his attempt to continue failed Bush/Cheney policies for the next 4 years. Fortunately for America, neither the corrupt McCain nor the Corrupt Palin will elected in November.

WE THE PEOPLE DEMAND CHANGE IN WASHINGTON AND REFUSE TO DUPED BY REPUBLICAN POLITICAL TRICKS AND PANDERING!!!!

-- Posted by news across on Sat, Aug 30, 2008, at 6:52 AM

slater41: The courthouse tax was approved by voters in April and the project is moving forward. A construction manager from Septagon was hired in June. The group is in the process of hiring an architect right now. The 1/4-cent tax goes into effect October 1; work is slated to begin in the spring.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sat, Aug 30, 2008, at 5:10 AM

I really had to think about it before I interrupted the current discussion. However I am falling down laughing about McCain's choice as his vice presidential running mate.

After months of not letting up in his comments stating that Obama is absolutely not experienced enough to be president he has selected Mrs. Palin, a forty four year old whose only experience in government until less than two years ago was as the mayor of a little town of seven thousand. He is flip flopping more than a fresh caught fish on a pond bank under the hot August sun. Oh, the hypocrisy of it all...it makes me dizzy.

On the surface it appears to be a blatant attempt to corral the vote of disaffected supporters of Hillary. However, her positions on the issues, as best as they can be determined after such a short stint in the spot light, are diametrically opposed to those of Mrs. Clinton. For instance, she believes creationism should be taught in the schools, she is totally against abortion, and on and on. I really do not see the disaffected Clinton supporters running to her in droves, though a few from the lunatic fringe may lunge in her direction.

Maybe I am wrong as to that being the reason. Could it be that the old fellow just got confused again, and thought he was selecting another wife thirty years his junior? Naw.

More plausible as at least a secondary reason is that he wanted to shore up his appeal to the conservative base of the Republican party. That base is well aware that he has been all over the place on issues that are close to their hearts. That sets up a rather grim situation for Mr. McCain. As a seventy two year old man whose life has been filled with physical duress,(we are thankful for his sacrifice) his mortality is an issue that can not be ignored. As he meets his conservative "supporters" (should he be elected) will he view them as so many buzzards circled about him waiting on the meat?

I actually think he is just following a tradition established by the last two Republican presidents. That is selecting someone so bad that it makes you assassination proof. Bush the first chose Dan Quayle the vacuous one with the blank stare who couldn't spell potato. Of course choosing stupid for Bush the second would have not been a viable choice. Had he done so the very best he could have hoped for was a toss up. So he chose Cheney, or Cheney chose Cheney for little Bush, I never did quite get that straight. A man that many people thought was evil from the get go, and who never met a war to which he did not wish to send every one else. Scary. So John McCain, the man of self pronounced experience, who constantly touts its value, has chosen someone as his running mate who has absolutely no experience. Could his real reason be any other than this relatively new Republican tradition?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Aug 30, 2008, at 5:06 AM

News Across,

Excellent point. I've always found the hypocrisy of most christians palpable. While rabid about a womans right to choose and the sanctity of innocent life they still have no problem with war. I wonder how the families of all the innocent dead in Iraq would feel about that. You can't have it both ways no matter how much you pray.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Aug 29, 2008, at 10:37 PM

A few months ago I read an article in the D-N about the discussion regarding the need to renovate the courthouse, but any subsequent articles I've missed, so I'm wondering if anyone can fill me in on where that project stands.

-- Posted by slater41 on Fri, Aug 29, 2008, at 9:45 PM

I knew quite a few folks who were Wicca when I was in college. Every one of them were outstandingly fine people. They worked hard, they studied hard, and they cared a lot about their fellow Man.

As I have said before, I support all beliefs from Christianity to Athiesm. All I ever ask from anyone is to hold true to the tenents of their faith. That is why I am shocked when I hear a fellow Christian tell me that they support this war or that war. Support for violence of any kind is anti-Christian. Jesus is the Prince of Peace. He once said "Blessed are the peacemakers.." and "turn the other cheek." So when a fellow Christian tells me they support war or warmongers, I realize they either don't know very much about the Prince of Peace and His teachings or they aren't really Christian at all.

Every Wicca I have ever known hold true to their beliefs. Every Wicca I have known oppose violence and war of any kind. In my book that means they are following some of the most important rules God has set for mankind. So Wiccans are fine with me.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 29, 2008, at 6:00 PM

WTMP

You are right about the Wiccnas and thier environmental ways so I do understand what you are saying now. The ones that I know are naturists too but they are also technically savvy. No harm no foul.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Aug 29, 2008, at 3:25 PM

"Hey, look at Mikey! He likes it!"

Congrats, Chief Mike! Look at what the graduating class of '91' produced. I am so very proud, my friend. Best of Luck and GOD Bless!

My favorite Mikey Donnell quote, "Ban the Bra"

-- Posted by nomad on Fri, Aug 29, 2008, at 3:25 PM

Okay, I see, sorry about the confusion. But no, I don't personally know any wiccans.

Here's what I meant, and it doesn't apply to all wiccans, of course. But a lot of wiccans I KNOW OF are also fundamental environmentalists, who don't have a lot of technology in their homes. It was in absolutely no way supposed to be a slam, it was a (perhaps bad) attempt at the irony of us talking about their beliefs on an internet forum when chances are not too many of them would have a chance to put in their own words, you see.

All respect to wiccans and fundamental environmentalists, and in the future I'll refrain from hinting on thing that may be taken the wrong way.

-- Posted by "When the Music Plays..." on Fri, Aug 29, 2008, at 3:05 PM

When the music plays,

I am not calling you conceited, I am calling you ignorant about Wiccans when you suggest that they are apparently so backwards as to not have access to computers or that maybe they don't know how to use them. I am not sure exaclty what you meant. I'm just saying that your swipe at Wiccans was unwarranted.

It was you who said:

"If you want to call me conceited or whatever; fine, go ahead, you're not going to hurt my feelings, but you might take into consideration the fact that you know nothing about me at all,"

Do you even know any Wiccans?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Aug 29, 2008, at 1:20 PM

Sure, WTF, I agree.

Here's how I look at the history of "religion":

In the beginning there was God (in this allegory likened to a precious jewel) and then everybody wanted the jewel. Then man, genius that he is, invented what we call "religion," which was the equivalent of taking a shovel-full of hog crap and dumping it on the jewel. Now, however much you want to scrape off the crap of pretentious "religion," the odor seems to linger.

Then people see you carrying around this jewel, but their initial reaction is to smell the residue of "religion" still stuck to it.

The trick is to grab a nose-pin and stop focusing on the bad. I've never, ever, ever, ever infinite looked down on anybody or the way they worship (or don't worship), but just saying I believe a certain way makes some people think I automatically have and do pass my unworthy judgment.

Although myself not extraordinarily optimistic (a glass half-empty kinda' guy), I feel my way of life is pleasing to God and thoroughly upright by the standards of men. If you want to call me conceited or whatever; fine, go ahead, you're not going to hurt my feelings, but you might take into consideration the fact that you know nothing about me at all, save the fact I have a jewel that may or may not have a "religious" sent to it.

-- Posted by "When the Music Plays..." on Fri, Aug 29, 2008, at 11:38 AM

Any word on the outcome of the appeal by the 3 teachers from Eastwood school?

Or when the Judge will make his findings known?

-- Posted by Gal66 on Fri, Aug 29, 2008, at 11:37 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
According to casenet no hearing has been scheduled yet.

notgvnasht,

Ditto! I 100% agree with your post on religion and how some people think that because they go to church regularly and make there religion a much larger priority than others may do that they are better. Does anyone actually believe that God would want these people judging others in this way? I thought that only God was to judge people. Seems awfully hypocritical to me, but that is how I find religion in general. I believe in God, I pray to God, however, I don't believe I need to go to church every Sunday to do so. I also don't think I am any less of a believer because I am not a regular church attender. It irks my soul to put up with Betty BibleThumper looking down her nose because she believes she is a better Christian because she can quote the Bible backward and forward and I can't. That doesn't mean I am a heathen and it doesn't mean God loves me less. To me it means I have a more private relationship with God that I don't need to share with everyone in town every Sunday morning. What is so wrong with that? Why does that make the Churchlady think she is better than others and has the right to share her opinion with anyone she can shake her finger at in the vestibule on Sunday or even in the grocery store any other day of the week?

-- Posted by Typesetter on Fri, Aug 29, 2008, at 10:35 AM

When the music plays said:

"I think there are some wiccans in Saline County, but I doubt they'd have a computer readily available to start up a chat!"

I don't think you could have made a more absurd comment, but I'll give you the benefit of doubt.

Your comment did nothing but show your ignorance.

I do know the Wiccan mantra is: 'An it harm none, do what thou will.'

I think we would all be better served if we were to take that to heart.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Aug 29, 2008, at 10:28 AM

You have to understand I'm coming from a judeo-christian point of view, so I won't say I'm completely unbiased. But anytime I see a religion whose main "symbol" in a pentagram, I start steering away.

I did a fair amount of research into different beliefs before reaching my conclusion, but to tell you the truth, wicca wasn't one I looked at too heavily.

I know they believe in a three-part goddess, (in my opinion a borrowed and flipped belief) representing "mother," "maiden" and "crone," but you could get that off Wikipedia!

I think there are some wiccans in Saline County, but I doubt they'd have a computer readily available to start up a chat!

-- Posted by "When the Music Plays..." on Fri, Aug 29, 2008, at 10:00 AM

Smokin' Cheetah,

Well I like to think of myself as a christian. I certainly belive Jesus is our Lord and Savior, however I believe God reveals Himself in different ways to different folks. For me He reveals Himself in the form of Jesus, but that is me.

I respect all beliefs including athiesm. One absolute that we all have in common is that there is not one shread of testable, observable, repeatable, varifiable evidence to prove any of our beliefs. For most of us, religion is a matter of faith. However one finds comfort in their faith is fine with me. I don't attack or attempt to denegrade other beliefs just because I may not share that belief. If you belive in a God or Gods or don't believe in anything at all, its fine with me.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 29, 2008, at 9:54 AM

SecretAgentMichaelScarn,

When someone tells me to read my own posting it suggests to me that they assume I didn't. Frankly, it would be very difficult to write a post without actually reading it as one goes along. So rest assured, I know exactly what I have written.

Also, when someone tells me that my "post suggests a lot" with out being specific, it tells me they probably want to insert their interpretation into my post, but they lack the courage to specifically state their interpretation. Let me assure you, SecretAgentMichaelScarn, my comments are direct and plain to see and I am fully capable and prepared to defend my opinions.

I tend to be pretty blunt, and I am not into hinting around. I say what I mean and I mean what I say. There are no hidden messages in any of my posts.

So if you have a question as to what my comment is about, please feel free to ask me and I will be happy to answer. However, you will have to be specific about what it is you don't understand.

-- Posted by news across on Fri, Aug 29, 2008, at 7:42 AM

Drew, as you may have figured out, I'm not a big fan of either politicians. Things are just too diverse to put the eggs all in one basket. Economically, I favor McCain and the republicans. Socially I favor the Democrats but then I have a big problem with Obama's connections with such outfits as the Teamsters union. And the really big problem is that I don't see anyone challenging him on that issue.

The teamsters are the most corrupt union in history! And Obama has pledged to them to remove the oversight committee that keeps them under control. As a former member of the Airline Pilot's Union, ALPA, I think I have a unique perspective and I feel the union was a major factor in the decline of the airline where I flew, no longer in business after I retired..

I also doubt that Obama, who has never worked anywhere but in academia that I know about, has any real idea of what is going on in the business world. I consider him extremely inexperienced. That's not to say he couldn't learn, but I find him very lacking in the areas I know something about. As usual, I'll probably vote in protest, i.e., Bob Barr or Ralph Nader.

-- Posted by White Tornado on Fri, Aug 29, 2008, at 1:38 AM

news across, maybe you should read your own post. It suggests a lot of things.

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Fri, Aug 29, 2008, at 1:15 AM

Mr. Crump,

In response to your comment regarding my comment. I am not now nor have I ever accused you of anything. Let's get that straight right from the start.

My comment was merely an analysis of the vagueness of your editorial criteria and nothing more. In doing so it is my hope to spur some thought on this subject, not only in the case of you and your staff, but for everyone who reads the Marshall Democrat and those who are employed by the Marshall Democrat. Yes editorial rights are the exclusive right of the editor and rightly so. However, as we have seen over the last almost 8 years, sometimes editors fail to properly meet their obligations to the public when, for example, they publish misleading information at the request of a rogue Administration bent upon a war with Iraq for the purpose of controlling Iraq's National resources but don't want the public to know that is their real reason for going to war. We have seen cases of editors allowing such misleading information to go to press for no other purpose than their own political leanings. However,...and I want to be very clear on this ...in no way am I suggesting you have ever done such a thing. I am merely using this as an example of the potential of abuse that exists in the position of editor.

I know of no specific occassions in which you have ever misused your authority nor am I accusing you of such. I am sure your a fine person and that you are doing a good job.

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Aug 28, 2008, at 6:42 PM

Mr. Crump,

I keep seeing your posting of this comment,

"The Marshall Democrat-News welcomes views or questions on any issue. We hope you'll express yourself freely and responsibly. We reserve the right to exclude entries that we deem disrespectful, threatening, obscene or in other ways objectionable."

Certainly the editor of any publication is the gatekeeper of that publication and as such retains the right to publish or not publish what ever lawful content he or she chooses and for any reason he or she chooses. However, viewing your stated criteria for doing so leaves one with more questions than answers. For example, you say you "...reserve the right to exclude entries that we deem disrespectful...." Well, well, well...isn't that special. The term "disrespect" is defined by Mariam Webster Dictionary as "lack of respect" (primary definition). The Cambridge Advanced Learners Dictionary gives the same definition. So we see that the word disrepect means lack of respect -- or do we? Does it mean completely void of any respect? Perhaps it means some respect but not full respect and if so, at what point does it go from respect to disrespect? Is there a line at half-full of respect that when crossed becomes disrespect? How much "dis" does one have to have before respect becomes "disrespect," and how do we gage such objectively? I doubt you know the answer to that, and I know I don't know the answer. In fact I don't know of anyone who can accurately answer that question despite the fact that I am quite well educated and associate with some of the best minds in the education business. Looking at some of the other qualifications you give as justification of excercising your duty as gatekeeper, such as "threatening," and "obscene, we stumble upon the same defining problem. Finally, when reading the last phrase of your sentence where you say, "...or in other ways objectionable." we find the root of the quandary we, some of your reader, find ourselves in -- subjectivity.

The criteria you cite for excercising your gatekeeper duties are highly vague at best and appear to be so intentionally. I mean let's face it, it is so subjective that it justifies any reason you may decide is sufficient for allowing some comments but not others even if you have no reason at all. In other words, your criteria are so vague and subjective that if creates opportunity for abuse of the right of gatekeeper. For example, let's pretend for the moment that you were a big fan of the Chicago Cubs baseball team and someone wrote a comment that said, "I don't think the Chicago Cubs should be allowed to play professional baseball because they don't play fair." Well, if you were a diehard Cubs fan, you might be tempted to use your position as editor to simply not publish that comment for no other reason than you as a Cub fan find it objectional. However, you would probably be hardpressed to find anyone who would agree that your personal objections to that person's opinion are justification for using your position as Editor to prevent that opinion from being freely expressed -- except for another diehard Cubs fan.

Perhaps in the end, authority, any authority, is something that should be dispensed with great care. I think perhaps its fair to say that calling it your job, ol' hoss, doesn't make it right. You need more than that to satisfy this reader's curiousity. Hey maybe you should just say, "I disagree with you the reader so I am not publishing your comment." At least that would be to the point and a bit more honest than to give vague and undefinable "reasons" for doing so.

That is my humble opinion -- No disrespect intended Sir!

-- Posted by news across on Thu, Aug 28, 2008, at 5:58 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
We've discussed revising the guidelines to make them more specific. The current guidelines are vague, yes. And judgment is (and will always be) required in decisions about which messages to allow and which to delete. The process is subjective. I don't believe the current guidelines imply otherwise.

We reserve the right to exclude entires that "we deem" disrespectful, etc.

I can -- and do -- claim that my personal agreement or disagreement is irrelevant. Certainly I disagree with much of what's posted here. I've deleted comments I agree with and allowed comments I think are completely wrong because my agreement or disagreement isn't a criterion of our guidelines. But you might not take me at my word (I don't expect you to).

Perhaps you could tell me some examples of messages you suspect have been deleted because of my bias. I would be glad to respond to specific cases. So far, I've only seen an accusation without any specific case that might have generated it.

What did I delete that you think I deleted because I disagreed with it and what led you to believe I disagreed with it?

I also do not assume that my judgment is always correct. There's no science to this. On occasion people have challenged my decisions and I've reversed them. On other occasions I've stuck with the original decision.

I do have the authority to make those decisions and I use care in exercising it.

notgvn, you're absolutely correct when you say a strong faith doesn't equate to sound decision-making. I don't know how music expects his/her statement to be interpreted, but my thought is that someone with a sound belief will ordinarily possess enough other strong attributes which, when applied all together, would most llikely result in a sound decision.

I have no tolerance for the religious zealots who make a production of letting us know what they think. My sense is that these people are lacking in their own convictions and are Freudian in their attempts to transfer their subconscious guilt to the rest of us. The same applies to any form of extreme behavior, like those who feel compelled to remind us that they're patriotic, waving their flags, inundating us with email reminders that 9/11 is approaching, and on and on. Recently I received an email with a slideshow of aerial photos of the World Trade Center attacks, and the first page was:

September 11, 2001: NEVER FORGET!!!!!

Now, tell me, how could anyone forget that day? Do we honestly need reminding of what occurred? I'm offended that some people think the rest of us are too stupid or uncaring to remember such tragedies.

At any rate, notgvn, whenever you feel threatened by what some fanatic is screaming at you, just consider the source and go on about your business as if nothing had occurred.

-- Posted by slater41 on Thu, Aug 28, 2008, at 5:42 PM

You all talk about change, why don't you try putting your minds to changing Marshall. It does not matter who is president, things will be the same it will just shift to who gets the money. Look at the Hospital in Sweet springs for months and months they talked and talked got people to support the project and sacrifice and now they want to sell it. Money will be made somewhere and who will benifit not the people who sacrificed but some lawyer, ceo, or city official. Just like everything else in Marshall and the whole country, people give of there time and talents and donate money for special things all because they play on their heart strings or just because they like to help others. Then after they have gotten all out of you they can. They sell and make a profit off all those kind hearted people. Great country. If they wanted to make a change. Why don't they give the money they just spent for a big party in Denver to help the homeless or hungry. He has no change in mind Just MONEY getting Richer and Being someone.

-- Posted by happy2bgone on Thu, Aug 28, 2008, at 12:27 PM

I find this dialogue between notgvn and music playing about Free Will vs. Determinism pretty interesting.

My perspective is that our lives must be determined from birth to some arbitrary age, the age at which we begin making conscious decisions for ourselves, and it's at this point where our lives become a mix of both.

The philosophers don't have a corner on this market, in my view, and also I believe there's no right or wrong way to think about it, much like when music playing says a strong faith will enhance the prospect of sound decision-making, or when notgvn says the person receiving a speeding ticket made the decision to break the law.

A belief in God and His Ten Commandments, coupled with humility and a conviction to treat others as one would want to be treated is all our "leaders" would require, provided of course they start out with enough native intelligence.

The framers of our Union had the foresight to realize the fallacy of applying the faith-based principles of religion to the foundation of government, since the practice of religious beliefs allows some people the opportunity to impose their beliefs on an unwillilng population. I was just thinking about the movie, Inherit the Wind, and how the Matthew Brady character attempted to control collective thought by imposing his self righteousness on others. That's the kind of tyranny Thomas Jefferson warned against.

-- Posted by slater41 on Thu, Aug 28, 2008, at 12:24 PM

Red Truck Rider wasn't the one who made the comment you were talking about; that was me. But thanks for the reply. And you're right, segregation of church and state is a good thing, but I believe faith and politics can go hand in hand.

But there's got to be the balance (one thing I've always admired about Eastern philosophy and even Taoism). No radical so called "believers," but definitely no radical atheists.

I guess my point is someone with a strong faith-base will have a strong basis for making good decisions, whether in theological issues or not.

All I can say to notgvnasht comes from the Proverbs (yes, I'm playing the whole "counter with a scripture" game):

As iron sharpens iron; so one man sharpens another.

-- Posted by "When the Music Plays..." on Thu, Aug 28, 2008, at 8:54 AM

Red Truck Rider: I'm well in tune with the things man has said and attributed to god. However, there's absolutely no proof of the existence of a god. I understand your faith and belief and I completely support your right to that end. I will be the first to stand beside you and defend those rights. I will take exception when ayone one tries to take that from you via force.

Our founding fathers, for the most part, were deeply religious. But in their wisdom they recognized the danger when religious mandates were supported by the force and might of government. Hence the First Amendmend. There were bitter fights about it including threats of leaving or not joining the union before it even got started.

That's why I cringe when politicians or their supporters start bringing up faith. The last thing this country needs is a faith based government. There are just to many different faiths. Around the world, there are hundreds of different religions with thousands of variations.

A case in point I mentioned before, Sunni and Shiite in Mesopotamia still fighting over events that happened in 632 when Muhammad died. The Shiite thought a relative should assume leadership, Ali, a cousin. The Sunni thought the leadership should come form the best qualified Imam. In 661, Ali was slain and the feud has been going on ever since.

What do you think would happen if one side gets control of the common areas?

I would fight an attempt of using force against a faith. I have read all the books of most religions, book of Morman, bible, Koran, Torah, Zen, etc. and disagree will all of them but would never take them away. I do recommend reading the other side. List of good books available if you ask me for it.

-- Posted by White Tornado on Wed, Aug 27, 2008, at 10:21 PM

I can only imagine what Arrow Rock must have smelled like in it's romantic heyday of the 1800's. All the horses,livestock and no sewers,etc. Maybe the smell would add an "air" of authenticity. I like Arrow Rock as much as the next person but we gotta eat. We have a hog lot right on the north side of Marshall. Some days it's pretty rank depending on the wind but I get over it everytime I have a BLT.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Aug 27, 2008, at 8:55 PM

So I recon this Cafo deal was going to come up like this. I'm all about State Historical Sites and how they need to be around for generations to enjoy for years and years. Last I checked Mr. Gessling had one of these operations behind his parents house. Now I've never taken the time to drive up their lane, get out and ask if i can smell around the place. Ha Ha, but just knowing most mothers. I'm sure that if there was an odor on a regular basis at the home place, momma wouldn't be happy and Dennis would probably have to go play with his pigs somewhere else. The other thing I have against trying to forbid a CAFO 15 miles away from Arrow Rock is You are in an Agriculture based county that thrives on Farmers. Also Isn't Mr. Gessling's existing hog operation only a few miles as the crow flies from Arrow Rock? Does this mean that his will be grandfathered in or does he have to tear it down. Also when a tyson truck or Cargil whatever flavor you wish runs down 41 through Arrow rock is he going to have the EPA knocking on his door because he took the corner a little to fast and 6 of the hogs on the load got scared and decided to relieve themselves and the matter fell to the highway. Talk about Peee Ewwwww who wants to smell that! Arrow Rock will have to get an ordinace then against the streets in town being nasty. I'm only stateing concerns by the way. I'm just really scared on this issue that this judge is going to grant this to the friends of Arrow Rock and this is going to be the first step to a nightmare in an Ag Striving County. Also on the other side of the fence. Please before you fight for what you think is right or what your neighbor drilled in your head that probably isn't from the county orignally get the facts and hope that this isnt a life changing event for Agriculture in This awesome County of Saline!

Respectively......

-- Posted by RedTruckRider on Wed, Aug 27, 2008, at 4:03 PM

We're to assume then that you are, in fact, in tune with the mysteries and works of God?

I just get a little upset when people think they know what's best over the wisdom of God. I don't want to start a whole theological discussion, because they're usually shot down by certain others on this forum. But I do want to let it be known; I believe and have faith in the eternal plan of God, but I don't try to understand everything He does for fear my brain would implode.

Playing it safe and all that.

-- Posted by "When the Music Plays..." on Wed, Aug 27, 2008, at 9:14 AM

Obama promises change, Well, in 1953 Iran got change when the CIA helped overthrow Mossadegh and install the Shah. Boy, was that ever a disaster being felt even today. (This is the first government that the CIA is credited with ovethrowing. I'm old enough to remember all this.)

Then in 1979, the Shah was overthrown. The Irani assumed whatever came next would be a change for the better. What a terrible mistake!

I have spent time in the area, before and after 1979. It is a model of unintended consequences. I really don't think Obama knows what is going on there and I suspect the republicnsn are focusing on the wrong things.

Proper handling of the situation in the area would go a long way in promoting the welfare of the entire world. I don't know of anyone I think will know what they are doing in the area.

Ask Obama or McCain to explain the difference between the Sunnai and Shiite. If you don't know. this is the most stupid "feud" of all time. starting in late 600's, about 635 or so after the death of Mohammadin 633 or so as I recall. (He also was supposedly resurrected after death and then rode off to heaven on a great white steed to the cheers of adoring masses. Yeah, Right!)

I forget which is which, but one side thinks the leader should come from dscendents of Mohammad and the other side thinks the leaders should come from the established leadership. Then someone got killed and there had been a fatwah ever since, over 1400 years! How incredibly stupid is that?

I hope you good americans understand that in the long run the Islam extremists are going to win. You can't beat the numbers and you can't beat the fanaticism--the willingness to die for an idea however stupid it may be. Fortunately, I will have long since shed this mortal shell and returned to the dust from whence I came.

The only hope is science and logic to teach these people and others that no one's imaginary friend is better.

I look around and I see all the dispair, the death and distruction, the imperfections, the suffering et al, and I think, "If there really were a god permitting all this, he/she could certainly not be so great or at least he would be considered an sadistic *******."

I met some folks recently with a daughter all twisted and in pain all the time from MS or something. The Mom said, "This is god's way of testing our faith!" I say only a twisted ******* of a god would inflict that sort of pain on an innocent child to test the parents.

-- Posted by White Tornado on Wed, Aug 27, 2008, at 2:27 AM

Okay, gang, Obama has reached the breakover point in his perceived inability to relate to us ordinary folk, so we need to begin our email assault on the DNC and make as much noise as possible to get this point across. He's come too far to allow McCain's innuendo and deceptions to run this campaign aground.

Here's the link. Please use it, again and again:

http://www.democrats.org/contact.html

-- Posted by slater41 on Tue, Aug 26, 2008, at 9:21 PM

I agree,

Mrs. Obama gave a beautiful speech and she looked absolutely lovely. Its nice to see a future First Lady who is clearly so in love with her husband and her family for a change.

In fact, one of my favorite characteristics of Senator Obama is that he is such a great family man. He clearly loves his wife and children and, try as they might, the Republicans can't smear that.

Unlike Senator McCain who began having affairs with other women as soon as he got back from Nam. Eventually, McCain finally ran off with his rich mistress -- leaving his poor wife Carol penniless and confined to a wheel chair for years.

That is why this patriot is voting straight Democrat ticket this time around!

-- Posted by news across on Tue, Aug 26, 2008, at 4:58 PM

I watched it on the Washington Post Web site this morning.

I thought her presentation was commendable, with just a hitch or two along the way, which I believe can be chalked up to the setting.

Contrary to the concerns expressed by the jabberboxes, I believe she easily held her own against Ted Kennedy.

-- Posted by slater41 on Tue, Aug 26, 2008, at 3:11 PM

Did anyone watch Michelle Obama's speech last night? I thought she did a wonderful job. I would be proud to have her as first lady.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Aug 26, 2008, at 1:54 PM

Cheese, I could not agree more. That story got me ro register with this site just to comment. I hope the owners sue the pants off this filth and the courts don't give him probation. He needs to sit in jail for a long time to think about wha he has done.

-- Posted by Hobie1 on Tue, Aug 26, 2008, at 10:48 AM

Don't let this one slip by you:

http://www.marshallnews.com/story/145554...

Unimaginable, unbelievable and unforgivable. If proved guilty, this worthless piece of human flesh should rot for the rest of his life.

Some actions in life just require that you give up your human card and get the heck off the planet.

We don't need you anymore.

-- Posted by Cheese on Tue, Aug 26, 2008, at 12:36 AM

What's wrong with partying?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Aug 25, 2008, at 9:05 PM

slippers, I looked through the Denver Post and saw no reference to any wild or raucous partying last night. Where did you see the report?

As for the corporate donations, you'd be best advised to consult with a business tax person, or call the IRS and ask what corporations are allowed to donate.

-- Posted by slater41 on Mon, Aug 25, 2008, at 6:29 PM

Just curious on everyone's opinions on how the Democratic party allowed all the partying in Denver last night. Could Obama really have stopped the partying? Also, what about the loopholes so that the big businesses can donate such huge amounts to the convention.

-- Posted by sapphireslipper on Mon, Aug 25, 2008, at 6:02 PM

I don't think any of you are even considering the fact that neither Obama or McCain are saying anything but words. What's the research on a percentage of campaign promises being kept? They're just words - words that are no doubt suckering many many voters their way.

Our choices are not great but I personnally don't want to see the Obama-Bin-Biden team in our White House!

-- Posted by barebackrider on Mon, Aug 25, 2008, at 5:02 PM

August 25, 2008

Editor,

To counter recent false and misleading attack ads by John McCain on Barack Obama's tax proposals, here is the gist of Obama's tax plan for America.

Obama would reverse the Bush tax policy, which heavily favors the mega-rich. He would lower taxes for the poor and middle class families (below $150,000), increase taxes for the rich, those earning upwards of $250,000 a year, and simplify it so most Americans could file in five minutes.

He would eliminate all taxes on seniors making less than $50,000 and they would not have to file.

He would give 150 million working Americans up to a $500 tax credit.

To help fix the Social Security System, he would apply a tax of 2-4% on all incomes above $250,000.

It's clear from his proposals that Barack Obama is not beholden to the wealthy and powerful, the corporations or lobbyists. He is for the average American.

On the other hand, John McCain would make the Bush tax cuts for the rich permanent. On August 16th, McCain defined the rich as those making more than $5 million a year and those making less as middle class. This elitist notion places him way out of the mainstream. Of course being married to a multi-millionaire beer heiress will do that to you.

Whose tax plan is the best for you and the best for America?

Sources: www.FactCheck.org

Cliff Cleland

518 S. 2nd Street

DeKalb, Illinois 60115

815 758 0566

-- Posted by cliffcleland on Mon, Aug 25, 2008, at 4:24 PM

it is correct McCain never HAD to work. Its not an insult to our soldiers to say so. He CHOSE to work, but he doesn't nor has he ever HAD to work for a living. So to say he is in touch with the working man would be a stretch. He chose to serve our country (which I say good for him, more should do so), but that doesn't mean he'll make a good president. But than again I don't think Obama will either.

-- Posted by landreth on Mon, Aug 25, 2008, at 12:27 PM

Ok Reader: you wrote:

Suppose that a tax was levied on a corporation, or a specific segment of corporations, such as those that move production off shore, or base themselves in no tax havens like the Cayman Islands. Further suppose that their products are not necessities. I believe that especially in a tight economy as is the current situation, that they would not pass the tax on to the consumer, but would often choose to accept a lesser margin of profit.

This brings up the point of companies moving their operations to other places, check and see how many business' moved out of the US in the past. Now some are coming back due to the lower value of our currency. Such as some of the Japanese car companies that are going to export cars back to their country. How long do you think that will last as soon as we pump up the taxes if they make money?

And, with the global economy, why would a business build their "widgets" here in the face of high taxes when it will get shipped to China anyway? If you take the torrent of promises to protect American jobs at face value, then the US would soon be an island with nothing bought or sold over its borders.

-- Posted by White Tornado on Mon, Aug 25, 2008, at 11:11 AM

Oklahoma Reader: All of your points are valid on the surface. By that I mean, for specific situations, companies would have the choice to "eat" the tax costs but that assumes they have a profit margin that would allow that.

How about the local farmers? If there's a bumper crop this year, should they then pay more taxes? And, yes. supply and demand is always a factor which is why government mandates and price supports do not solve problems. If they did we'd still have buggy whip factories supported by the government making buggy whips with no buyers.

Now you mention things that are not for the common person but luxuries for the rich. Again, a reasonable concern but who decides what is exceesive? And don't try to tell me you and I are the only ones that never buy something we don't really need. Oops, now only you as I just bought a microwave that I could just as easily done without. So you see the bag of worms if you try to tax things just because they may not be needed.

And an even bigger point, who has a job in the pipeline to manufacture all that stuff we don't need? A $600 shower curtain surely wasn't made by other rich people, and the truck to deliver it wasn't driven by a super rich kid. In fact that shower curtain was developed with the idea in mind of wrangling some of that super rich money to "trickle down" to the sweat shop workers. (Remember that phrase?)

BTW, I also have no formal education in economics, only went to college for 3 months at Central Mo. St. but all I've learned was from personal observation and experience tempered by a bit of "common sense". (Was it Mark Twain or Will Rodgers that said something to effect that common sense isn't that common?)

Very basic observation, take away the profit potential and you'll stiffle the reasons to work hard and innovate if there's a risk.

-- Posted by White Tornado on Mon, Aug 25, 2008, at 10:52 AM

White Tornado: You have made the statement several times on this blog (and I paraphrase) that it is of no value to tax corporations because that tax would be passed back to the consumer of the corporate product in the form of higher product price. I may be wrong, but it seems to me that the statement is incomplete with out modification as there are exceptions.

The most general exception that I reference is that the statement seems to ignore the law of supply and demand. Would not the selling price still be controlled by demand for the product? Suppose that a tax was levied on a corporation, or a specific segment of corporations, such as those that move production off shore, or base themselves in no tax havens like the Cayman Islands. Further suppose that their products are not necessities. I believe that especially in a tight economy as is the current situation, that they would not pass the tax on to the consumer, but would often choose to accept a lesser margin of profit. Deciding to make that corporate choice in the circumstance would also be abetted by the desire to maintain a high level of production in order to not lose the advantage of lower unit cost, and to not risk loss of a portion of customer base, which perhaps would never return. I believe that the corporate choice to absorb the tax would be the wiser choice if their profit level prior to the imposition of the tax was at an historic high, as is presently the case with some corporations. The corporations would still thrive, the stock holders would still do well, and the executives would still enjoy their super star life style.

There is another conditional exception to your statement. Your comment, if my memory serves me has been made in response to NanaDot's populist call to tax the rich, inclusive of corporations. There are certain corporations whose product is exclusively for the rich consumer. While in that instance the corporate tax could well be passed on to the consumer with out a glitch in production, there are not many who would shed a tear for that class of consumer's plight. It would be another step toward tax equalization, and curtailing the undemocratic tax privileges of the very rich that have not been seen until now since the gilded age of the robber barons. In many cases it would not even really, beyond in theory, be passed on to the consumer, as that special consumer, and the corporation are so close as to be nearly inseparable. So what if it is a back door luxury tax.

As I had a limited formal education with no economics courses, and have not read much about economic theory, I have come to these conclusions based on my native ability to reason, such as it is. Therefore, I am extremely interested in your response should I have erred, and you can offer enlightenment.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Aug 25, 2008, at 12:06 AM

HI once again!! LinkMan here with just one more for today. This is a list of scandals perpetrated and advanced by the current administration. Some are bordering on being outright criminal:

http://www.netrootsmass.net/Hugh/Bush_li...

This compendium was NOT generated by the Democrats! Rather, it was created by people who believe in the Superman ethos of Truth, Justice, and the American Way.

-- Posted by slater41 on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 7:11 PM

The subject of this post could be Links for all Occasions. Pass this on to your favorite Republican acquaintances, or maybe even send it to the RNC and suggest that perhaps parts of what's contained in the link page should be incorporated into their television ads:

http://www.michaelbach.de/ot/

-- Posted by slater41 on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 6:50 PM

Here's the link to the Web site for the Congressional Record:

http://www.gpoaccess.gov/crecord/index.h...

Go grazin' and see how your elected officials perform. You'll find Biden's voting record in here, WT - AND McCain's, and Obama's, and all the rest of them.

-- Posted by slater41 on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 5:27 PM

ghostwriter, are you one of those who would say to anyone disagreeing with certain statements made by McCain that whatever McCain says must be the truth because, after all, he was a P.O.W.?

Forget the treatise (that's the word you wanted), and take a look at the monetary contributions made by U.S. military personnel to the two campaigns.

-- Posted by slater41 on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 5:15 PM

nanadot, if you think corporations pay taxes, then you sure don't know much about business. All costs must eventually be paid by the customers, costs which includes taxes, health care for employees, and all such things. So tax the local bakery and the prices will have to rise or costs cut somewhere else in order stay in business.

So every customer has to pay more which is pretty much the same as "taxing".

Obama is promoting change and then has a VP who's been part of the status quo governement for what? 30 some years? Yeah, a big change there! At least Obama seems to realize how little he knows about the rest of the world and how lacking he is in experience.

McCain has no work experience? Just what work has Obama ever done? College professor at some elite eastern college? Probably was making 10 times as much as McCain at the same age in the military. I'm still waiting for Obama to tell me what he actually means by change and what he would actually do. The wrong change could be worse than no change.

-- Posted by White Tornado on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 5:09 PM

NanaDot,

You made my point for me in reqards to France and nuclear power. If they can do it we can do it better.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 3:47 PM

NanaDot, I was enjoying a good laugh reading your trist until the end. You should try the comedy circuit. Your comment on McCains "who has NEVER had to actually work for a living" should be taken as an insult to every U.S. Military veteran in Marshall and Saline County. If serving in our armed forces, protecting your constitutional right to free speech is not working for a living then what is. I guess though you want everyone to continue to live on welfare.

Where I live now, I have seen many people who when given the opportunity to work suddenly discover a pride and feeling of self worth they didn't know they had. That first real paycheck is amazing. They had been beaten down in a system that rewards being lazy and that is all they knew. When they are given the chance to learn, and grow they become so proud of their accomplishments and learn to respect others and, more importantly, themselve.

The welfare system in this country supported so strongly by Democrats does nothing but take away a persons pride and dignity. Making them feel worthless and useless. All most of them want is a chance to prove themselves. To take pride in their work, to stand up and say "I can do it." Your thought that the GOP has gutted this system is wrong. It is the Democrats who want to keep people on the "dole". That keeps people poor and wanting. And the Democrat look like "white Knights" coming to rescue.

In closing, I hope veterans respond to your McCain comment. I am not a vet but feel strongly that a great many do not get credit what they have done for our country. If serving our country is not actually working for a living then I guess being a firemen, policeman, teacher or garbage collector is not either.

-- Posted by ghostwriter1978 on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 2:05 PM

Comment : You want CHANGE!! Get out of your chair, on Election day and VOTE ! Regardless who you vote for! Clean out Washington,and start over! Also,see that your Governments Judicial System prosecutes the Criminals that already there! Then things may correct themselves! But to get, the people, to do that, you might as well spit into the wind! I think we are all suckers!!

-- Posted by Jo on Sat, Aug 23, 2008, at 11:26 PM

if the documents were VERY IMPORTANT DOCUMENTS, why were they left in your car in the first place overnight, and on top of that, with the doors unlocked?

-- Posted by aikman8 on Sat, Aug 23, 2008, at 10:56 PM

Okay folks, here's the deal! I have NEVER voted for the winning person for President. But I am political so I like money. So, for the right price,i.e. the highest bid, I will vote for someone you would want to make sure of NOT winning. Of course, I've always voted Libertarian or other independent, rather than the evil of two lessors. Someone asked me if I love Bush and I said, "Yes, unless you mean the President!"

-- Posted by White Tornado on Sat, Aug 23, 2008, at 5:07 PM

I don't know if Lieberman would do the trick or not. Moderate enough probably - but with a twist or two.

-- Posted by broke-n-busted on Sat, Aug 23, 2008, at 3:07 PM

It doesn't really matter who McCain or Obama chooses as running mates, because if we vote for either one it will be just the same old politics we have had for the last few decades. We as a people keep saying we want change, but we don't vote for it. Democrats and Republicans are NOT the only parties. Personally I am looking at the Libertarian's candidate-Bob Barr-a reformed Republican. If you want change you have to change the way you do and look at things. It would also be nice if newspapers would report these options to the people too so they could make an informed decision.

-- Posted by landreth on Sat, Aug 23, 2008, at 1:02 PM

How about Joe Lieberman (sp), b-n-b? Like two peas in the pod.

-- Posted by slater41 on Sat, Aug 23, 2008, at 12:47 PM

Long-distance-Slaterite. Not suprised you like Biden with your views. I believe the choice of Joe Biden as his Running mate has nearly sealed Obama's fate. If McCain picks a running mate that is anything close to a moderate he will win the election.

-- Posted by broke-n-busted on Sat, Aug 23, 2008, at 12:34 PM

The talk last night on Nightline re Obama's running mate centered on Joe Biden, and I see this morning that Biden is the choice.

Biden was my first choice for the nomination, even though I knew he wouldn't succeed, and I've felt all along that he could be more effective by keeping his Senate seat, but maybe part of the change will be in what role the vice president has.

I feel the excitement of the potential for a new frontier, borrowing from JFK.

-- Posted by slater41 on Sat, Aug 23, 2008, at 10:19 AM

nomad: I can definitely confirm your figures on the cost of formula. My daughter has an infant now almost 5 months old and the cost for his formula *alone* is just over $100 per month. Daycare for this little one and his older sister is around $600 per month. I was really stunned by those numbers.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sat, Aug 23, 2008, at 10:08 AM

Thanks for the nice words, OKReader. If I'd been living during the early 20th Century I know I would've been a member of the Peoples Party.

Have you read the book, The Populist Persuasion, by Michael Kazin? He sees many signs of the Populist movement in today's society.

I thought about your comments regarding the inequities of affirmative action, then I thought about the fire drill we call Congress, then I thought about Chris Berman at ESPN and his descriptors and sound effects for football plays, and I concluded that, yes, the best-laid plans of mice and men often go awry.

It took a pretty good while for me to begin favoring Obama. I did believe like some reported that he's an elitist, but I don't think that way now. This may sound corny but now when I listen to him, I'm reminded of MLK Jr.'s Promised Land speech and I think, no, I HOPE we'll finally see the fulfillment of his dreams and prayers through this man with the Muslim name.

-- Posted by slater41 on Fri, Aug 22, 2008, at 10:38 PM

I live approx. 1 mile NE of a very large one( and not related to the owner) and never smell it.

-- Posted by litlmissme on Fri, Aug 22, 2008, at 7:18 PM

Former Ag. Teacher, do you live next to a CAFO? Bet not. My point is that hog poop stinks.

-- Posted by fresh air on Fri, Aug 22, 2008, at 5:50 PM

With great respect to "workingmom"'s comment on how hard it is to balance inflation and today's wages~ I do disagree with the view on Social Services or perhaps I'm missing - not understanding what benefit for those that qualify are getting and conclude "low income families ""end up w/ more.""

Maybe someone could help w/ finding the income cap guidelines for these services? I'm not going to be exact on the amounts...They are ALL pretty low...With the exception of WIC-or formula their income cap is higher to reach the "moderate low-income". Saline County's WONDERFUL Health Department can tell you the guideline.

I work w/ a lot of "Low-income" households and it's tough all around.

I can only give a scenario cause it's to hard to explain...

A "honest" 3 person household (2adults 1baby)applies for FoodStamps, Medicaid, Housing. The food is guaranteed based on family size and income, at most $300.00/ month -supplement WIC- offered at our WONDERFUL Health Department, and they gain extra food dollars and will be eating quite well~formula is VERY expensive.

Medicaid- depending on the age of the adults may or may not help w/ healthcost. The income limit to get Adult(over age 23)Medicaid is around $200/ month. No help w/ any type of minimum wage job. Hopefully they are healthy and get the birth controll from our WONDERFULL Health Department.

Daycare's income cap is pretty low as well. I think this is around $10,000 annually. Two persons working in the household, very doubtful this is a perk. One person working, no need for daycare unless the other is looking for a job or (hopefully) going to school!

Housing is even more tricky... thier income cap is around $21,000 and is based on 30% of the PROJECTED annual income. So at making $17,000 a year between the both of them their rent is still $400.00/ month and they would not be getting any of the other services-Except for WIC-provided through our WONDERFUL Health Department.

Now, the house they live in COULD be a bit nicer than the income would normaly reflect, because a housing voucher will help pay around $550 base rent (couple pays $400 & housing picks up the rest). Just a side note, most of these services do include some basic utility deductions from actual income... NONE of them include Auto Insurance that you must have---BY LAW.... hard to get back and forth to work w/o a car.

My point is... We all have less, unless you are at the high end of the lowest tax bracket w/o credit cards.

Social Services is a very vicious cycle and so hard to overcome the need. Just a little increase of someones income can cut overall the food, daycare & housing assistance combined by hundreds...

GOD Bless....

-- Posted by nomad on Fri, Aug 22, 2008, at 5:35 PM

Here's another link to some insights into nuclear power generation. Parts of this tie into the findings cited in the Science Daily report:

http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf40....

Former President James Earl Carter could speak to this issue, since his education is in nuclear engineering.

Carter's Energy Independence Initiative, begun in 1977 with the intent of freeing the US from foreign oil sources, was first cut back when Reagan took office in 1981, and then canceled in 1985.

-- Posted by slater41 on Fri, Aug 22, 2008, at 1:10 PM

This link offers some interesting information about wind energy systems and usage:

http://www.nationalwind.org/publications...

I live in San Antonio, and the local power company has made a commitment to purchase power from a wind system located in the western part of Texas.

The utility has announced that its customers will be paying an additional amount to fund this venture, and I would anticipate this to be the case in any other part of the country where wind energy is offered as a supplement.

-- Posted by slater41 on Fri, Aug 22, 2008, at 12:15 PM

WTF, here ya go:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/200...

-- Posted by slater41 on Fri, Aug 22, 2008, at 11:54 AM

I'm with Eric and What the F..., if both parties would grow some brains and realize if nuclear, wind, solar and any and all forms of energy sources were implemented, we'd be out of the energy crisis in a few years.

But no, the Dems. have to be super-green and the Reps. have got to have their oil, and what do "we the people" want? Security, sovereignty, and CHEAP ENERGY!

It all works, and if T. Boone Pickens, a right-wing oilman from Texas, says alternative, renewable fuels and energies are one of our last hopes, what in the world are we waiting for?

-- Posted by "When the Music Plays..." on Fri, Aug 22, 2008, at 9:17 AM

Nuclear couldn't supply a significant amount of energy? I'd like to read that article.If France can power thier entire country with nuclear and sell the surplus, then I think we could do the same.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Aug 22, 2008, at 6:21 AM

Paulie, in my retort to you I did not say you were wrong. Sometimes late at night I get tired, don't focus, and just let it rip.

I have no quarrel with your latest observation.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Aug 22, 2008, at 1:08 AM

Oklahoma Reader...paragraphs!

It's not that I would ignore substance for style...quite the contrary. Paragraphs make it easier for people to read and understand your substance. Style=more people understanding your substance.

There have been a few times that I have passed on your comments not because of the substance, but one long paragraph is taxing on the brain and eyes!

-- Posted by Paulie Walnuts on Fri, Aug 22, 2008, at 12:50 AM

The other night while I was visiting family in Marshall I and my cousin were walking around the square talking. We started to go west bound on north street off the square. Without thinking about it we cut down the alley leading from north street to Court street. With a friendly slug to the arm in attempt to cheer him up I took off running from him toward court street. Apparently moments before some big nosed self absorbed people in a big bird yellow monte carlo had seen us walking and called the police saying that we were looking suspicious. When did walking down a public street become suspicious? Moments after we left the alley a county cop and three city cops were on us. We were searched and detained for no other reason than we were out walking and someone who has a 'Name" called the police.

When did walking down the street become grounds to search and harass someone? I will admit that the county officer was very professional but the fact that three city police thought they had to show up and hang around was a bit much.

Come one people its ok to report things that are suspicious, but 2 people walking down the street is not suspicious.

-- Posted by Selmac8 on Fri, Aug 22, 2008, at 12:40 AM

Well reasoned commentary Slater 41 from one member of the Cynical Party to another. I do have to add that I also remain a proud populist. There is room under that tent for conservatives, liberals and even old Cynical Party members. I am hoping that racism and associated cultural bigotry do not prevent the election of Obama, our nation's best chance for real change. We probably have not needed real change as much as we do now since the Great Depression

The presidential candidate of the Republican Party has voted with the Bush agenda 95% of the time this year, and 90% of the time since Bush took over the Whitehouse. How anyone can equate their vote for McCain with a vote for change defies reason.

Ntgvna---, thank you for the anecdote. I am afraid that is being repeated all over America. The controlling class has always done a good job of stirring up hatred between working class whites, and blacks. It would be their undoing if working class people ever figured out that the struggle is about class not race, and all voted their common interests.

For instance, affirmative action in itself is not a bad thing. If it were based on giving a hand up to all who are not privileged, not just those of one race the controversy would die, and we would be a better nation for its broad application. It has always irked me that liberals have fought so hard to maintain limited affirmative action instead of working to extend it to all those to whom it would be of direct benefit. Sometimes they can not see the forest for the trees. It is stupid to take a stance that effectively divides the natural Democratic base vote. Karl Rove must love that.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Aug 22, 2008, at 12:39 AM

Whether or not athletes can play with non-passing grades seems like a simple problem to have compared to what this district is dealing with...

http://tinyurl.com/5vmh47

-- Posted by Paulie Walnuts on Fri, Aug 22, 2008, at 12:12 AM

I have my doubts about the Pickens plan, Eric. On the surface it relies on a wind energy system that may be cost prohibitive on a national scale.

Most of what I've read place wind systems in the same category with nuclear systems, neither with the capability to supply a significant amount of energy, but I believe there hasn't been a real push to develop wind technology until just recently.

Indeed, it would be amazing if the two sides got serious about working together.

-- Posted by slater41 on Thu, Aug 21, 2008, at 7:25 PM

Check out Paul Begala's column:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/21/b...

Without seeing the actual plans he's referring to, it's hard to say whether they would be worth supporting, but I like the idea of a bipartisan approach that is both visionary and detailed.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Thu, Aug 21, 2008, at 4:46 PM

WorkingMom, you made perfect sense.

Most days I believe our legislators don't have a real and genuine interest in what they were elected to do, and then when they do get around to acting, the result is less than adequate to deal with the ailment they attempted to cure.

I'm a registered Democrat, but I belong to the Party of the Cynics, I'm sad to say. When the public reads remarks like the one made a few years ago during an attempt to remedy the Social Security funding dilemma (the legislator said, paraphrased, Who cares? We won't be around in 50 years anyway.), or when the viewing public heard Newt Gingrich respond to the reporter's question regarding the voters being given a chance to speak about the Clinton impeachment proceedings and Gingrich implying the voters aren't smart enough to figure things out, what are we left to think about? We can't set term limits on them because the Supreme Court says it's up to the legislators to determine how long they stay around.

Worship of the almighty dollar is the foremost determing factor why you lost your job to someone who would have it for less money and no benefits. Worship of the almighty dollar by corporations whose management is beholden to a bunch of greedy stockholders and whose jobs depend on unwavering allegiance to those stockholders has a firm grip, nearly a stranglehold, on this society.

I don't know if Bud Walton intended for his company to treat employees the way his children treat them now that he's gone and they have his business, but that's the reality today. The time when a person stayed on the same job for an entire working life has long since passed, a time when employers and employees were glad to be in partnership.

Well, workingmom, I guess I'm the one sounding bitter now. (smile)

-- Posted by slater41 on Thu, Aug 21, 2008, at 4:39 PM

I see the push and pull of all the parties and ideas-- wouldn't it be great if we could have build-a-president like we have a build-a-bear adding what was needed and not having to take anything we did not want. I watch those around me suffer from the impacts of the government-- and at times personal choices-- but more and more I here-- I was let go as someone was hired in my place to do the job for half of what I was being paid for and they don't get benefits as they are only "part time" and of course working full time hours--

A lot of the places doing this are ones that if the community knew what was going on as far as replacing their employees the business would lose loyalty--

I lose my point in my rambling---

but I believe we need a change-- am I sure what way to go--NO--

but all of our lives are being tremendously effected by this suffering economy-- yet public assistance is not catching up with inflation so it seems at times those making less are actually coming out ahead-- with not having to pay insurance, food, daycare, formula, housing-- they are able to spend more of their checks than those of us making more-- we are left with less than those starting out with less.

Did I make sense? or is my bitterness showing?

-- Posted by workingmom on Thu, Aug 21, 2008, at 3:15 PM

Exactly, outsider. The money to repair the damages done over the past eight years will have to come from somewhere. Obama's plan to shift funding and modify income sources will account for part of it (and yes, provided it works as planned, it will actually LOWER taxes), but this trillion+ that's been squandered in Iraq could certainly go a long way toward fixing what's broken.

The same can be said about the Vietnam conflict and all the money squandered on that one. If not, who knows just how far the Great Society plan would have advanced.

-- Posted by slater41 on Thu, Aug 21, 2008, at 2:52 PM

Very well said, typesetter. If even a couple of those things could be reversed, paying a few more taxes would almost be a relief.

-- Posted by outsider on Thu, Aug 21, 2008, at 2:17 PM

I see that Deep has been reading those anonymous, inflammatory emails again. heh heh

I'd suggest that he try reading the Congressional Record for a change.

-- Posted by slater41 on Thu, Aug 21, 2008, at 2:09 PM

Trojan77 said, "...but it is us, not the media who will live with our choices in this next election."

However, it is we that are living with the choices we made in the last election! I thought 4 years of Bush were plenty! I was not his supporter 8 years ago or 4 years ago. I was not a big John Kerry fan, and to be perfectly honest with you I'm not overly excited about Obama, but we need a change!I cannot support 4 more years of the same thing we've been dealing with. Are you better off than you were 8 years ago? I can tell you I'm not! Everyone says, "Oh, the Democrats will raise your taxes!" It's going to be money out of my pocket one way or the other, because since there's been a Republican in office gas for my automobile has almost tripled, my grocery bill has skyrocketed, heating a home has become a luxury, jobs are scarce, the housing market has went to hell in a hand basket, I quit putting money in my retirement account because it disappears, my country is in a war that most people don't support, I could go on but I think you get the picture! Why would anyone want to continue down this path?

-- Posted by Typesetter on Thu, Aug 21, 2008, at 1:51 PM

Democrats couldn't care less about high gas prices. The consistent policy of the Democratic Party, going back at least to Jimmy Carter, has been to jack up gas prices so we can all start pedaling around on tricycles.

Environmentalists are constantly clamoring for higher gas taxes as the cure-all to their insane global warming theory. Clinton proposed a 26-cent tax on gas. John Kerry said it should be 50 cents. Gore endorsed the Malthusian proposal of Paul and Anne Ehrlich in "The Population Explosion" that gas taxes be raised gradually to match prices in Europe and Japan.

The result is consumers now pay about 46 cents per gallon in gasoline taxes. That's not including taxes paid directly to the government by the oil companies and passed onto consumers. As the inestimable economist John Lott has pointed out, in the past 25 years oil companies have paid more than three times in taxes what they have made in profits.

B. Hussein Obama's response to soaring gas prices is to have the oil companies collect even more money from us at the pump, proposing a "windfall profits tax" on oil companies. "Corporate taxes" sound like taxes on rich people, but all they do is force corporations to collect taxes on behalf of the government sit on that democrats

-- Posted by n2deep22 on Thu, Aug 21, 2008, at 1:14 PM

Yes, please go on, trojan. I'd like to hear what you'd propose as a workable solution to the energy crisis.

-- Posted by slater41 on Thu, Aug 21, 2008, at 12:56 PM

To modemocrat, Firstly I'm not sure that I called anyone a name, or used a buzzword or smear. Secondly, we both know that we will not change each others minds as far as Obama is concerned. Thirdly I'm not a huge McCain supporter.

You say you want to debate certain issues and mentioned Obama's energy policy: We'll start with that.

Immediately Provide Emergency Energy Rebate: The last time this was tried, the windfall profits tax (WPT) backfired. It discouraged expansion of domestic energy supplies and led to increased oil imports. According to a 1990 Congressional Research Service study, the WPT in place from 1980 to 1988 "reduced domestic oil production from between 3 and 6 percent, and increased oil imports from between 8 and 16 percent." These unintended consequences were among the reasons why the WPT was repealed in 1988 and why similar bills should not be introduced today.

Tapping the Strategic Petroleum Reserve (SPR): The SPR is a federally maintained petroleum stockpile intended to make up for any shortfall caused by a temporary supply disruption. Tapping into the SPR would lower prices temporarily but would drain the supply within six months, to which prices would again rise and there would be no stockpile for its original purpose-an insurance policy against a supply disruption. It would take many years to refill the SPR.

Cracking Down on Speculators: Speculators can help consumers at the pump and their role in increased prices is marginal, at best.

Shall I go on? Don't misunderstand me, I would love nothing more than to be completely oil independent and to let the people that we finance to hate us through the purchase of their oil, swim in their own tar.

-- Posted by trojan77 on Thu, Aug 21, 2008, at 12:18 PM

Enough already with the Hitler comparisons! If you want to discuss facts, policies and issues then why don't we have that discussion? Look at the candidates web sites to see their plans; Obama's energy plan has specifics, McCain does not; when Obama positions change it is called a 'flip-flop, when McCain does the same thing it is described as 'his position is evolving'; Obama considers "rich as someone that makes over $250,000.00 a year, Sen. McCain said the'rich' guideline is $5,000,000.00 a year.

Let's talk about issues and positions instead of reverting to name calling, buzz words and smears.

-- Posted by modemocrat on Thu, Aug 21, 2008, at 10:52 AM

This goes out to all of you that have decided to beat up on n2deeps spelling and grammar- His/her point is perfectly clear - Be careful for what you wish for with Obama. Obama has contradictions written all over him and is also playing with our deepest need: the restoration of American pride at the time of our morale and economic hardships, both at home and on the world stage.

Candidates like Obama play more with generalities, with so much to be desired for in terms of specifics. The popular media has lavished him with so much accommodation, but it is us, not the media who will live with our choices in this next election.

The frenzy some of you have about Obama is scary. Germany had the same kind of frenzy about Hitler in the 1930s. There were contradictory signs about him, but the Germans ignored them, Hitler played on the very basic nerve that appealed to the Germans at that time: restorations of German pride after its defeat in WW1. If you don't think that it can happen here, take a look at Obama's voting record in his own state on gun control.

Sometimes I don't know who some of you people are. Americans are so quick to move on to the next big story, like Madonna's 50th birthday, or Brittany Spears shaving her head. We forget about September 11th, and how much we rallied behind President Bush at that time.

Surely there are a few more of us out there that can see behind the contradiction that is Obama. We face very real threats in the world, and none of you should be ashamed that we are, in fact the greatest nation on earth. Remember: Be careful for what you wish for. Way to go n2deep!

-- Posted by trojan77 on Thu, Aug 21, 2008, at 9:31 AM

n2deep22,

I will say that your moniker is approprate because for this type of discussion I believe that you are indeed "n2deep".

1.)The Democrats are not "against drilling" but they demand responsible drilling, especially offshore.

2.) After Obama made his statement about proper tire inflation and tune-ups the McCain camp was quick to make fun of that until AAA agreed with Obama about the amount of gas that would actually save. The McCain camp is choking on crow over that one.

3.) "Biased leftist media"? Not everyone only watches "FOX" news and I can taste the irony of you calling other news outlets "biased". Did you know that FOX news owner Rupert Murdoch admitted publically that he had intentionally slanted his "news" agency to be "pro" Iraq invasion? That my friend is "biased".

4.) I can't speak intelligently about "no child left behind" as I am many years removed from the schools and current educational mandates by the federal government.

Judging by your knowledge, spelling, grammer and writing skills I can only assume that you were in fact "left behind." For that I am truly sorry for you.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Aug 21, 2008, at 6:55 AM

First of all sorry my typing is a little rough, The reason you all dont see the facts is because of the byist left media.And the no child left behind was actually written by ted kennedy a democrat. And i heard no response to the energy crisis we are haveing did i ? The one the democrats are aginst drilling and lowering our oil prices but i guess you could air up your tires and get a tune up like senator obama proposed instead of drilling so it looks like you all need to get your facts straight.Oh dont worry about my spelling worry about a three year senator with the most liberal voting record in washington that has flip floped on every issue just to tell the people what they want to hear

-- Posted by n2deep22 on Thu, Aug 21, 2008, at 12:08 AM

I saw tonite where McCain said that he would indeed support the reinstatement of the draft. Why am I not surprised?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Aug 20, 2008, at 11:55 PM

Smokin'.....you are right on target!

-- Posted by teachers_wife on Wed, Aug 20, 2008, at 7:04 PM

If SecretAgentMichael_____ were to post a response to n2deep, Agent would no doubt accuse deep of being from Slater. heh heh heh

What say you, SecretAgentMan?

Deep, I'll certainly not defend your viewpoint, but I WILL defend your right to state your opinions. HOWEVER, as has already been well-stated, you would do yourself a good turn by knowing whence you speak.

-- Posted by slater41 on Wed, Aug 20, 2008, at 6:29 PM

Oh, and BTW hasn't the illegal immigrant explosion and high energy prices become an issue over the last 8 YEARS of REPUBLICAN leadership!! Along with an unnecessary war that has left many a family grieving and made our deficit sky high! Gee, do you want 4 more years of our tax dollars going to fight a war we didn't need to be in in the first place. I can understand Afghanistan, but not Iraq! We have very few allies left as most of the world now thinks we are just bullies. If you want more of what you're getting now then McCain is your man!

-- Posted by Typesetter on Wed, Aug 20, 2008, at 4:41 PM

WTF - I agree. N2Deep22 doesn't seem to have visited www.Snopes.com lately as his/her 'facts' regarding Senator Obama need to be checked. There he/she could read about all of the untrue myths being circulated about Senator Obama. Most of which he/she included in their post. I'm sure that wouldn't change his/her opinion. People will believe what they want to believe. I'm sure I could come up with just as many negative 'facts' about Senator McCain if I really wanted to find them.

-- Posted by Typesetter on Wed, Aug 20, 2008, at 4:21 PM

I guess I'm not allowed to give my opinion of thier level of intelligence as it was spoken like a true "dittohead".

I would ask that person to not only educate themselves about Barack Obama, but also to educate themselves regarding grammer and the writing arts before posting again.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Aug 20, 2008, at 1:58 PM

Can someone please translate the last post here?

-- Posted by "When the Music Plays..." on Wed, Aug 20, 2008, at 1:43 PM

This is for all you obama supporters barrack was the son of a atheise mother and a black kenyan muslim when he was five he attended a radical muslim school in jakrta indonesia. he has a radical preecher that says god**** america he has been a member of that church for 20 plus years he fails to put his hand over his heart when the national anthem is sang he has radical ties with louis farikon the most anti semite in the usa. he has the most liberal voting record of any democrat today.You all have fun paying higher taxes letting more illeagal immigrants in this country as if we dont have enough. Take our guns away and no offshore drilling is this what you people want wake up people so i guess if you like paying higher taxes and for illeagals and paying higher energy prices and somone who doesent salute the flag this is your guy to vote for

-- Posted by n2deep22 on Wed, Aug 20, 2008, at 1:07 PM

slater41: When I say, "I think" it means I'm not sure. I saw stories that indicated this was a virtual fence, not a fence in the context we'd normally think of it (e.g., a fence around my backyard), but I didn't spend a lot of time looking for other stories. I'm not thrilled with the idea of a fence in the first place and even less thrilled a company known primarily as an airplane manufacturer is building it, in any fashion.

As for OBTW, it still lives, though less often in the paper and more often as a blog, which you can find on the left side of the front page here. :)

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, Aug 19, 2008, at 9:35 PM

Oh, by the way Ms. Fairchild, whatever has become of your OBTW column? I enjoyed it. (smile)

-- Posted by slater41 on Tue, Aug 19, 2008, at 7:25 PM

Kathy, you think, or do you know for a fact? If you know for a fact, then the latest report I saw, last week on PBS, must be either inaccurate or misleading, because it was reported that Boeing has the contract to "build the fence," which also includes coverage for the open spaces between the sections.

Boeing did develop some sort of software for the virtual system, but it turns out that it's unsuitable for the task. Apparently Boeing didn't consult with the border patrol people to learn what is needed.

Lots of examples are readily available of how the planning and execution of this project has gone off not even half-cocked. One such example is the 80-year-old woman living outside of Brownsville, TX whose property will be on the Mexican side of the fence. She's been informed by representatives of Homeland Security and the Border Patrol that all roads accessing her location will be fenced off, and that she'll need to obtain escort from the Border Patrol whenever she needs to go to the grocery store, keep appointments, etc., etc.

A family-owned farming operation, existing for multiple generations, will lose access to 800 acres of the farm. The feds offered the owner a little over $40,000. for those 800 acres, explaining that the offer was calculated on the basis of actual land occupied by the fence.

This goes on and on. Citizens all up and down the border with questions have been instructed to deliver their concerns to a computer operator who transmits the information to Washhington. Every person submitting questions says they haven't received any response.

What's taking place is a travesty, and this adds an exclamation point to the preponderance of evidence that will surely rank this administration as one of the most corrupt, in my estimation.

Drew Officer

San Antonio, TX

-- Posted by slater41 on Tue, Aug 19, 2008, at 7:18 PM

How many of you are tired of that McCain commercial touting Obama as a "celebrity"? Here is a list of celebrities, all but one are hmmmm...Republican and have served office:

Ronald Reagan, Arnold Schwartzenegger, Clint Eastwood, Jesse Ventura, Fred Thompson and Fred Grandy(from the Love Boat) Can you add to the list?

-- Posted by teachers_wife on Tue, Aug 19, 2008, at 6:01 PM

slater 41: I think Boeing's contribution is actually a "virtual" fence, isn't it?

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, Aug 19, 2008, at 5:10 PM

What the f......

Does it make any difference if it's four more years of Republicans or four years of Democrats? Personally I think this country is hosed either way, and neither will be any better. Just my opinion.

-- Posted by BlackBird on Tue, Aug 19, 2008, at 4:36 PM

So, anybody still want four more years of the republicans?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Aug 19, 2008, at 12:07 PM

Nope, no rubber bands or pogo sticks, my friends. Nothing so rational as that!

The Boeing Corporation is now in the fence-building business since it can't have its way about airplane manufacturing contracts.

Boeing is the recipient of the $49 billion contract let by the feds to build the 18'-high fence from the Pacific Ocean to the Gulf of Mexico. The fence sections will cover approximately 750 miles of the total 2000+ miles of US-Mexico border. I understand that somewhere around 350 miles has been erected so far.

I don't know what the border residents in NM, AZ, and CA are experiencing, but there's much bitterness over this project among the Texas landholders. The amazing thing about this is that Michael Chertoff, the head of the Homeland Security Agency, has been given free rein to do whatever he sees fit, leaving property owners no recourse whatsoever. All laws appertaining thereto have been set aside.

Former Senator William Proxmire (D-AR) handed out what he called his Golden Fleece awards which brought to public light senseless spending projects, but this one might be about the fleeciest of them all.

This is what goes BOEING and costs the taxpayers $49 billion.

-- Posted by slater41 on Tue, Aug 19, 2008, at 11:47 AM

Ding Ding Ding Ding...Tell them what they've won...

-- Posted by Green Eyes on Tue, Aug 19, 2008, at 9:50 AM

No no no!

A nuclear-powered, self-propelled, GPS-equipped, pimped-out pogo stick!

Am I right?

-- Posted by "When the Music Plays..." on Tue, Aug 19, 2008, at 8:39 AM

A freakin' expensive rubber band?

-- Posted by "When the Music Plays..." on Tue, Aug 19, 2008, at 8:37 AM

What goes "BOEING!!!!" and costs $49 billion?

-- Posted by slater41 on Mon, Aug 18, 2008, at 1:08 PM

slater 41, it's actually bigger, as big as Conn. and is 900 feet below the surface and about 120 feet above so melting would actually lower the ocean level not raise it. (Picture a glass of water filled to the brim with ice above the level of the rim. As the ice melts it doesn't spill over but gets lower since ice has a higher volume than water.)

It's expected to take several years to melt and will be a minor problem in the sealanes at times but not a big risk. And, it will be closely tracked and studied. Here's a link if you want more info. WT

http://www.ecology.com/featuresarchive/l...

-- Posted by White Tornado on Sun, Aug 17, 2008, at 10:41 PM

Paulie Walnuts: I wondered when you would get around to me. I am relieved that I am finally in the illustrious company of those that you have criticized.

You have every right to criticize form, and ignore substance. A lot of people do that for various reasons.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Aug 17, 2008, at 6:49 PM

Say! Whatever happened to that Rhode Island-sized chunk of Antarctica that broke off and was floating around in the South Atlantic? Melted without incident?

-- Posted by slater41 on Sun, Aug 17, 2008, at 5:04 PM

slater41: I agree with you about the Love Canal type events but life is often a trade-off between good and bad, high risk vs low risk, oil/gas at a high cost vs other things such as windmills, nuclear, etc. at a risk or an eye sore. As I recall France gets just over 70% of their electrical power from Nuclear and I don't recall hearing of any problems. Just like so many things, I'm sure there are dangers but there are also dangers in doing nothing.

Here in Cal. we are facing water shortages in the near future due to the way we treat the rivers as far as irrigation of the deserts to grow food is concerned. Cheaper food or more water?

One of the dangers we face as the world seems to warm a couple of degrees is the number of people that will die from the heat when a/c's have to give way to blackouts or even brown outs in such places as the big cities.

As for the occupation for 100 years, I think McCain was referring to countries like Japan and Korea, et al, where we still have a military presence after 60 years. WT

-- Posted by White Tornado on Sun, Aug 17, 2008, at 3:36 PM

WT, I'm fully aware of the meaning of the acronym. Now that I know your locale I'm following your abstraction.

None of us wants the physical proximity to a Love Canal or a Chernobyl and the health risks posed by such endeavors, but when they come after the fact it's up to industry and government to take every precaution to prevent harm to the environment as well as the population and adjacent land values.

As we've seen time after time during crises, it's ALWAYS best to talk straight and truthfully, and of course it doesn't hurt to have legislation in place to properly deal with situations, and to have people in positions of authority to see that legislation is carried out. The residents in the vicinity of the Taum Sauk power plant and the Johnson Shutins can attest to this.

I have no idea what McCain meant by his 100-year occupation remark, and I seriously doubt that he does, either. I suppose he wants the US to continue to think of itself as the world's police force.

-- Posted by slater41 on Sun, Aug 17, 2008, at 1:21 PM

I just want to say "Kudos" to the Marshall Municipal Band. They just finished up their season on Thursday night and they always do such a great job!! We try to make it to see the band most Thursdays and really enjoy the music. We appreciate the effors of all the band members, as well as Conductor Kevin Lines, Commentator Randy Shannon, and Charles Tryban, who was recognized this passed Thursday night for his contributions as band manager. Marshall is really lucky to have a such a great band!

-- Posted by Typesetter on Sun, Aug 17, 2008, at 10:36 AM

Oklahoma Reader,

Paragraph:

A paragraph typically consists of a unifying main point, thought, or idea accompanied by supporting details. The non-fiction paragraph usually begins with the general and moves towards the more specific so as to advance an argument or point of view. Each paragraph builds on what came before and lays the ground for what comes next. Paragraphs generally range three to seven sentences all combined in a single paragraphed statement.

-- Posted by Paulie Walnuts on Sun, Aug 17, 2008, at 2:36 AM

We should rank our beliefs not by plausibility but by the harm they may cause.

-- Posted by White Tornado on Sun, Aug 17, 2008, at 1:03 AM

RedAngel: Not to defend any gas dealer, but I suppose it's the "normal" retail business action of trying to maximize profit, i.e., cover costs + profit, which may be different for each location.

For instance, CostCo here in Ca. usully is the lowest cost for the gas grade they carry but some local "Mom and Pop" may be able to sell for less and still make the profit margin they need. A lot depends on what else they can sell. Sometimes gas is a "loss leader" to induce other impulse buying.

When I drive I-5 from Santa Rosa, Ca. to Seattle area, it's stunning the range of prices for gas. And, of course, a big part of the equation is the cost of acquiring the product.

-- Posted by White Tornado on Sun, Aug 17, 2008, at 1:01 AM

slater41, one other thing, I went to school, Marshall High, with a girl named Nelda Piper but have not idea if related. I only knew her causually as a classmate/friend. I was in class of 1955 and I think she was a year or two behind.

-- Posted by White Tornado on Sun, Aug 17, 2008, at 12:42 AM

slater41, thanks for the info and offer but I had already gotten new CD's for most of the records. I also have a player so I could still listen to the LP's. I hated to part with the LP's but I did keep 2 of them, Peter, Paul and Mary becuse I saw them in their earliest show at the Hungry I in San Fran.(fell madly in love with Mary) and Joni James, "Little Girl Blue" as that was the first one I ever bought, at the PX in Pensacola when I was in pre-flight school, 1957. Cost me all of $1.10

I gave them away as I'm soon moving and didn't want to move them one more time. Same with the books and I really did love all my books and LP's.

About the eyesight, I'm going to send you some eye exercises and things to do. Maybe they will help! Won't hurt and they have helped me as I'm 72 and have no problem. On a flt physical at age 42, was told I needed to get glasses but researched and came up with this set of things to do. Was able to get rid of the glasses and haven't needed them since. I hate wearing glasses and such things.

Back to the original subject, NIMBY, an acronym I thought everyone was familiar with but maybe not. What I meant, and a big problem out here in granola land, everyone wants to see new "factories, power plants, business's that hire more people" but then say, "as long as it's not in my back yard"

Even the cell phones aren't that reliabile as the "tree huggers" won't allow the relay towers, etc needed. Does that explain what I meant? I find it interesting how different areas of the country or even the world have different idioms such as that, and, we sometime forget that not everyone speaks the same.

-- Posted by White Tornado on Sun, Aug 17, 2008, at 12:16 AM

Thanks very much for the lead, John Q!!

-- Posted by slater41 on Sat, Aug 16, 2008, at 11:29 PM

Slater41, Johnny is alive and kicking. Nelda's little brother is living in Kansas City, Mo., with his wife Carolyn. You might want to contact Mike or Nelda Clemons here in Marshall to get in contact with John.

-- Posted by John Q. on Sat, Aug 16, 2008, at 10:47 PM

Okay, I realize that gas is coming down but this is what puzzles me the most. These were the prices that I saw just today, Saturday, 8-16-08 in Marshall, Slater, and Sedalia...

In Slater today it was 3.57

In Marshall at Breaktime it was 3.43

At MFA Petro it was 3.49

At Wal-Mart it was 3.37

In Sedalia it was 3.39

Why such a big difference? Especially from the same companies. I realize that the Petro place probably set the price as of Friday when they left. But, why can't the price be more uniform? Aren't we paying enough without being gouged by the oil companies. Who is setting the prices anyway????

Anybody out there have an answer??? Just disgusted so much at the cost of gas...sorry I vented! :)

-- Posted by RedAngel on Sat, Aug 16, 2008, at 9:27 PM

Many years ago I knew a guy from Marshall by the name of Johnny Piper - no known relation to the former sheriff, Paul Piper. I believe he graduated from MHS in 1957 or 1958. Back in those days he drove a tan '55 Chevy.

During the Christmas holidays of 1965 I happened to see him in the old Rose and Buckner store. We chatted for a bit, and that was the last time I saw him, and I know nothing of what's happened with him since.

Back in those days the Slater kids and the Marshall kids seemed to most always be at odds with each other, so whatever friendship that may have developed between us two was pretty much thwarted by the silliness that went on (I do hope that mindset has changed).

If anyone knows about him or knows of his whereabouts, I'd appreciate the information. I'd like to say hello again after 40+ years. Here's my email address to pass along if it's wanted:

dofficer@satx.rr.com

Thanks for any help.

-- Posted by slater41 on Sat, Aug 16, 2008, at 8:05 PM

WT, I'm not making the connection between unemployed union workers and NIMBY, unless you're referring to the plan to build a dormitory-like structure in the middle of Blackwater and fill it with homeless union members.

Incidentally, your record and book collections must have been extensive. I have about half as many lp's, and not too many books in print (I've lost most of my vision and can no longer read printed matter). I found a gadget to convert my records to disc, via my computer. It plugs into a USB port and transfers the tracks onto the hard drive, or maybe directly onto disc. I haven't checked the details other than to know it'll do what I need. Too bad you didn't get yours onto discs before you donated them.

Thanks for the information about the book. I'll see if I can get it on tape or download it from the state library.

-- Posted by slater41 on Sat, Aug 16, 2008, at 3:12 PM

slater 41, what I was referring to is that so much of what could be done is denied due to NIMBY, "not in my back yard". And it's pretty hard to outsource the physical jobs, i.e., yard mowing, truck driving, school bus drivers, etc.

Outsourcing is most harmful when the entire conmpany moves to a more desireable place due to lower taxes, lower property costs and lower wages.

A book worth reading about the global work place is "The World Is Flat" by Thomas Freidman.

One recent event that is encouraging is that Toyota is now making cars here for export. The de-valuation of the dollar makes that more attractive to the rest of the world. If you've ever traveled internationally, you will have experienced the affect of different currencies.

I can remember when the Japanese yen was 400 for $1. A $10 item in the US could be gotten in Japan for 500 or 600 yen, $1 to $1.50 US. Right now I would hate to have to get a nice hotel room in London not to mention dinner at a nice restaurant.

Oh, BTW, WW-2 ended in '45? We still have troops based in Japan over 60 years later. Could that be what McCain meant about being in the middle east for 100 years? Not so far fetched as most people seem to think.

-- Posted by White Tornado on Sat, Aug 16, 2008, at 1:17 PM

WT, what exactly do you mean when you say we want to help the displaced union workers but NIMBY applies?

The federal government has in place a number of very attractive tax incentives which encourages outsourcing. The saving on labor costs is a minor incentive.

What we're talking about is of much greater scope than the loss of jobs. If we applied a reductionist logic we could say that the quest to maintain a certain margin of profit is placed ahead of every other consideration, like the welfare of families, e.g.

The failing automobile industry is in a somewhat unique situation primarily because of its insistence on doing business like it has done from the days of Henry Ford. The relationship between the company and the union exists in a bubble, and as union demands have grown, so too have the pricetags for their products. They're essentially pricing themselves right out of business because of their failure to heed the warning signs.

-- Posted by slater41 on Fri, Aug 15, 2008, at 9:35 PM

WT: I did not mean that outsourcing jobs was the exclusive reason for the demise of unions. I should have done a better job of communication. Nevertheless, I would not want to argue the point with the union workers who have stood outside the padlocked gates of manufacturing plants all across America wondering what they would do next, after the owner moved his operation to Mexico, or elsewhere to escape the high cost of labor. I remain of the opinion that it is the ultimate weapon to bust a union. Even the threat buckles the knees, and bows the heads of once proud members of manufacturing unions.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Aug 15, 2008, at 8:51 PM

OR, the point being that not all unions or other jobs are threatened by 3rd world or Mexican workers.

There are so many of us that want to help such folks but NIMBY applies. I find it incredible that we managed to get the Berlin wall torn down and now we are building a fence. Wonder why we don't build a fence along the Canadian border since most of the 9/11 hijackers came in that way.

One point about having to take off our shoes at airports these day. I think it's a waste of time to make women do it as I've never known a woman who would blow up a perfectly good pair of shoes. (Now that's just a joke, I'm not sexist. My wife won't let me be one).

-- Posted by White Tornado on Fri, Aug 15, 2008, at 8:18 PM

Green Eyes: Thank you for the compliment, I appreciate it very much.

WT: I doubt that starving desperate third world workers are trained as airline pilots, therefore your comment that you didn't think they had been a problem to the pilot's union is credible. Your comment is also funny.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Aug 15, 2008, at 7:54 PM

Sadly unions will never be what they once were due to the availability of the ultimate scab, starving and desperate foreign workers.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Aug 15, 2008

OR, as a member of the Airline Pilots Union for over 25 years, I never once heard of any member being being replaced by the "ultimate scab, starving and desperate foreign workers".

-- Posted by White Tornado on Fri, Aug 15, 2008, at 6:20 PM

Looks like this conflict has been going on for a lot longer than we've ever heard about (or maybe we just weren't listening). Here's an interesting take on the issue:

http://www.american.edu/ted/ice/ossetia....

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Fri, Aug 15, 2008, at 3:29 PM

Georgia invaded South Ossetia. So Russia invaded Georgia. Now the U.S. is mad at Russia.

Here's what I'm wondering:

What do the people of South Ossetia want?

I haven't come across any news stories that say much about them other than to say they have "separatist" leanings, which implies that at least some of them may want Georgia, Russia and the U.S. to leave them alone.

Anybody know more about South Ossetia?

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Fri, Aug 15, 2008, at 1:41 PM

OK Reader: That whole post captured my interest. Very well written. You should start a blog.

-- Posted by Green Eyes on Fri, Aug 15, 2008, at 8:47 AM

Thankfully, at last we may be getting the cold war back! The Russian Bear and Uncle Sam are glowering at each other and flexing their muscles. Ah, for those golden days of yester year when we could hate somebody our own size. There is something tempering in having an enemy that you know **** well could kill you just as easily as you could kill him. You can hate that kind of enemy to the depths of your soul without a drop of blood being spilled over it. How I long for the days of my childhood over fifty years ago when there were only two phrases that would bring school mates to instant fisticuffs. The first of course was accusing in the vernacular that one had an unnatural relationship with one's mother. The second insult would make the blood boil just as quickly. That was to call someone a RUSSIAN CRUM BUM. In retrospect it is quaint and archaic. You had to be there. The wonder of it was that our passionate national hatred had sunken, or oozed down to the maws of mere babes.We were consumed by it. Meanwhile we united in the face of our common great enemy. Republicans and Democrats arm in arm formed a phalanx fervently waving the grand old flag as they marched in circles. Meanwhile our economy exploded, but not the world, even though our dreams were often about just such an event. There is a price for everything. I have often thought that the so called Conservative movement has never gotten over the loss of the Cold War. They seem to have a special penchant for intense hatred, and were comforted and soothed by the opportunity to spill their bile, but not their blood on a nebulous threat like the Red Menace across the ocean. They have been searching since the demise for a suitable substitute, but nothing they have tried has quite fit their needs. First of all it is somewhat discomfiting to focus all that hatred on let's say liberals, libertines, or atheists. After all any of those folks could well be your relative, your neighbor, or even your boss. They have tried Jews, Muslims, and people of a different race. That is also problematic. God forbid, your sister might even be married to one of them. They have desperately even gone to hating Satan, good in theory, but too ephemeral to really work yourself into a lather about. Secondly when they had the Russians to hate they at least got some support from most every one they knew. That is a comfort. Now they twist in the wind hating first this, and then that, never really getting to go full bore after anything. With just a little luck we can have a great enemy back again, and forget all the other nonsense.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Aug 15, 2008, at 2:39 AM

NewsAcross: Well said. Sadly unions will never be what they once were due to the availability of the ultimate scab, starving and desperate foreign workers.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Aug 15, 2008, at 12:40 AM

slater41,

Thanks for posting the lyrics of that song!!!! I think that song embodies what is wrong with America today. Too many today confuse flag waving with patriotism. Some folks just never learn lessons of the past and insist we just keep making the same mistakes over and over again.

Well...its an election year and we finally have a chance to bring change. Let's hope we don't make the same mistakes we did in 2000 and 2004!

-- Posted by news across the neocon empire on Fri, Aug 15, 2008, at 12:10 AM

slater 41. Thank you for a great song! I had that on old LP records with all the Kingston Trio albums, Peter, Paul and Mary, Chad Mitchell, Brothers 4. and on and on. About 310 albums that I just donated to a school fund raising "yard sale". Not sure if they got anything for them but they were very near priceless to me. Oh, the pain of growing old!!

PS: I also donated about 3,000 books and every day I think of something I want to re-read but no longer have the book, such as a couple of things by Elie Wiesel mentioned in previous chat.

-- Posted by White Tornado on Thu, Aug 14, 2008, at 11:54 PM

NANADOT, Wiesel also said in one of his books that I read long ago (and I paraphrase since I'm not sure I remember exactly) "There are times when we must interfere if human lives are endangered and human dignity is in jeopardy".

And you seem to admire him (as do I) so how do you justify ranting about getting out of the middle east? If we, the US and others in the free world, had challenged Hitler in the '30's perhaps millions of Jews would have been spared. I'm sure Mr Wiesel would have supported that action. You can't say that we haven't saved millions of lives any more than I can say that we have.

-- Posted by White Tornado on Thu, Aug 14, 2008, at 11:46 PM

NanaDot, keep right on "ranting," as WT calls it, and WT, this song is for you:

The School Song, by Chad Mitchell Trio (1964)

Two and two are four

And four and four are eight

ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOP

Two and two are four

What did you learn in school today

Dear little boys of mine

What did you learn in school today

Dear little boys of mine

I learned that Washington never told a lie

I learned that soldiers seldom die

I learned that everybody's free

That's what the teacher said to me

And that's what I learned in school today

That's what I learned in school

What did you learn in school today

Dear little boys of mine

What did you learn in school today

Dear little boys of mine

I learned that policemen are my friends

I learned that justice never ends

I learned that murderers die for their crimes

Even if we make a mistake sometimes

And that's what I learned in school today

That's what I learned in school

What did you learn in school today

Dear little boys of mine

What did you learn in school today

Dear little boys of mine

I learned that wars are not so bad

I learned of the great ones we have had

We fought in Germany and in France

And someday I might get my chance

And that's what I learned in school today

That's what I learned in school

What did you learn in school today

Dear little boys of mine

What did you learn in school today

Dear little boys of mine

I learned that Government must be strong

It's always right and never wrong

Our leaders are the finest men

And so we elect them again and again

And that's what I learned in school today

That's what I learned in school

That's what I learned in school today

That's what I learned in school

Two and two are four

Two and two are four...

-- Posted by slater41 on Thu, Aug 14, 2008, at 9:59 PM

There seems to be a lot of confusion as to what a union is.

A union is you and your coworkers at your place of work who decide to bargin for pay and benefits all together as one and nothing more than that.

A union is you and your coworkers at your workplace who decided you want more than the doctrine of "employment at will" -- which means you can be fired for good reason, bad reason, or no reason at all.

Without a contract for you and your coworkers, you have no protection from unfair dismissal and no control over how much you make or whether you are provided with insurance, vacation pay, holiday pay, and other benefits.

Without a union contract -- a contract between you, your coworkers, and the company, the company does not have to provide you with any benefits at all.

A union is you and your coworkers at your place of work that want labor laws such as the "Unfair Labor Practice" law to protect you from sneeky, underhanded bosses treating you like a wage-slave.

If you and your coworkers at your place of work don't stick together as a union of workers, the bosses can treat you almost anyway they want and your only recourse is to quit. And you came there to work and make a living in the first place -- not to quit.

A labor union IS NOT some big unseen, bureaucratic organization that sits back and takes some of your pay and does nothing for you. In fact, the union works for you and you are the boss.

Unlike the company, a union is democratic and every union member has a say in what happens. Yes you pay union dues which are very moderate and intended to collectively pay for expenses you and your coworkers incur in collective bargining (that means you and your co-workers make the company treat you as one instead of pitting you against each other as the company bosses love to do).

Union dues pay your paycheck if the company shuts you out and you have to go on strike.

Union dues pay for lawyers to protect you when the company fires you for no good reason at all.

Paying union dues is no different than contributing to the cost of the upkeep of your local church. It just pays for the costs of making sure the bosses can't treat you like wage-slaves.

So the next time you hear some jerk telling you that unions are bad just remember -- he's talking about you.

When he says something about unions, just substitute your name for the word union and that is who he is really putting down -- you, because you are the union -- you and your cowokers, friends, and family -- you are the union.

Don't let some fool who knows nothing about the labor movement, its history, and who knows nothing about how hard you work put you down. Stand up and tell him you are union and proud and remember that all your coworkers, friends, and family are standing right there with you!

Be proud, be loud, and don't let big company bosses push you around!!! You are the union and don't ever let them forget that!!!

-- Posted by news across the neocon empire on Thu, Aug 14, 2008, at 5:39 PM

It's just an idea. Maybe they do it to catch peoples' attention. It caught yours. Negative or positive, I'm sure they aren't bias. If it reaches some people though, it was worth it to "the ad people."

-- Posted by Green Eyes on Thu, Aug 14, 2008, at 12:22 PM

NEW SUBJECT: Am I the only person offended by these computer generated "humans" telling me how much they like or support a certain toothpaste, new drug, automobile or other such things?

How dumb do the ad people really think we are? I make it a point to take notice and ensure that I NEVER buy those products.

-- Posted by White Tornado on Thu, Aug 14, 2008, at 10:44 AM

NanaDot, Well, you finally said something positive about helping the situation. I don't quite understand the need to shoot Bambi but then I guess we all have quirks. If it's because you can't afford meat otherwise, then I forgive you.

I just hope you don't shoot them on my property near Blackwater. That's suppose to be a sanctuary.

And, yes, I have read all this stuff and all your other rants have been against world/national things you find disagreeable.

Next subject: How do you feel about Obama's relationship with the Teamster's Union?

May 2008

Teamsters, Obama Deny Quid Pro Quo

Wall Street Journal | May 5, 08 1:37 PM CDT

(Newser) - Before winning the Teamsters' endorsement, Barack Obama said he'd support ending government oversight of the union, an unusual stance for a presidential candidate, reports the Wall Street Journal . An independent board has policed the historically organized-crime-influenced Teamsters since 1992; Bill Clinton, John Kerry, and Al Gore left the matter to the Justice Department.

Do you think the Union President James Hoffa, son of the infamous Jimmy Hoffa, has learned his leason about corruption? Since the oversight committee has curtailed previous crime, should Obama (or anyone else) assume it won't happen again? If you do believe that, then I suggest you remove the crosswalks at the schools if there's been no accidents for a few years. Same idea, prevention and not a cure.

-- Posted by White Tornado on Thu, Aug 14, 2008, at 10:04 AM

Happy Thursday, everyone!

-- Posted by Green Eyes on Thu, Aug 14, 2008, at 9:56 AM

Mornin' glory, Hallelujah, everyone!

-- Posted by "When the Music Plays..." on Thu, Aug 14, 2008, at 9:22 AM

Aikman8, I am sorry that has taken me so long to reply to you. I believe that if one chooses to vote for John McCain because he is experienced, then one is voting for him for the wrong reason. I don't know why so many people have come to that conclusion. It certainly is not based on his record concerning the Iraq war. Perhaps it is because he is siver haired and aged, but age does not automatically bestow wisdom. Perhaps it is because he is a combat veteran. While he deserves full credit for his patriotism, and the price he paid for serving our country, the fact that he was a combat pilot has little to do with preparation to be Commander in Chief. His "experience" led him down the same wrong headed path taken by the entire Bush Administration during the run up to the Iraq war. As is the case ninety percent of the time he was in lock step with Rumsfeld, Cheney, and Bush. Let me give you some examples from that time that indicate how well he was served by his "experience". He was among the most aggressive proponents of a preemptive strike against Saddam Hussein, cosponsoring the resolution authorizing the use of force against Iraq. That choice by our leaders may well go down as the greatest foreign policy blunder in our nation's history. He also expressed full faith in the way the war would be executed, affirming Rumsfeld's grand design. During the run up to the war McCain argued in favor of an invasion, quoting the logic of Dick Cheney "As Vice President Cheney has said of those who argue that containment and deterrence are working, the argument comes down to this: Yes Saddam is as dangerous as we say he is," McCain said on February 13th, 2003 in a speech drumming up war support at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. On February 21st 2003 while a guest on Fox's Hannity and Colmes he predicted the war would be brief. Back on December 9th, 2002 he told CNN's Larry King "I don't think you're going to have to see the scale of numbers of troops that we saw, nor the length of the build up, obviously that we had back in 1991." On February 25th, 2003 then Army Chief of Staff General Eric Shinseki warned the Senate Armed Services Commitee that"several hundred thousand" soldiers would be needed to take and hold Iraq. He was fired by Cheney/Bush for deviating from the administration's propaganda. If McCain shared Shinseki's prescient opinion he did not say so at the time. "I have no qualms about our strategic plans" he told the Hartford Courant in a March 5th, 2003 article, just before the invasion.His "experience " not only did not allow him to see the errors himself that we as a country were about to make, but also did not allow him to see the errors when they were clearly stated by the respected General Shinseki. West Virginia Senator Robert Byrd, a legitimate, experienced, wise old man took the Senate floor on March 19th, 2003 to denounce the disasterous war that was about to happen. He said "We proclaim a new doctrine of preemption which is understood by few and feared by many," he continued, "After the war has ended, the United States will have to rebuild much more than the country of Iraq. We will have to rebuild America's image around the world." He did not have a crystal ball, what he had was knowlegable experience coupled with legitimate wisdom. John McCain took the Senate floor in response and predicted that "when the people of Iraq are liberated, we will again have written another chapter in the glorius history of the United States of America." Once again not only was he dead wrong, but having heard insightful truth from Senator Byrd his "experience' did not allow him to recognize it, but instead led him to quarrel with it. It scares the hell out of me that we may have a man with McCain's "experience" try to lead us out of the domestic devastation, and ill conceived war that the incompetent Bush Administration will leave as their legacy.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Aug 14, 2008, at 1:34 AM

But, NanaDot, I don't think I could agree more!

I don't believe we should have to settle for extremes one way or the other. In my way of thinking, the far-left and the far-right can take a far-flying leap!

My analogy was of an honest guy, but what happens with the story of Dr. Smythe?

Little Georgie Smythe just wanted to be a doctor. He worked hard at school, got a medical degree, and went to work. Then one day he looks in his checking account and says, "Holy moly! I've got enough money for three mansions, a penthouse suite, four Porches, a classic Ford Mustang, and all the babes I want!" So he goes out and gets them all. Smythe narrowly misses a malpractice suit (for coming to work hungover from last night's party) but for his expert lawyers. Those lawyers also find a way to get him out of paying taxes.

Then the bit about the dudes in black comes in and people think, "Well he got what he deserves, and I got what I deserve!" (Hold up a check reading Portion of Dr. Smythe's Assets, Courtesy of the U.S. Government.)

No, not everything in a capitalist society is perfect. But when has a "Perfect Society" lasted very long, if ever at all? Our way seems a lot better than some of the alternatives.

All right, I'm going to say "good night, Gracie."

-- Posted by "When the Music Plays..." on Wed, Aug 13, 2008, at 11:41 PM

Oh, and a side note:

Barack's biggest bill right now, the World Poverty Act, if passed into law, would take $845 Billion (that's with a capital "B") from U.S. taxpayers and redistribute that money to other nations through the UN.

And people think he's going to STRENGTHEN the American economy?

(Again, not that I have any problem with helping the impoverished, but I'd rather give to the poor out of the goodness of my heart, not the goodness of my tax dollars.)

-- Posted by "When the Music Plays..." on Wed, Aug 13, 2008, at 11:17 PM

Well put. When the Music Plays.

The problem I have with Nanadot, nothing but complaints and no solutions. Instead of railing against everything, pick a couple of things you think can be changed with a little help from you, then try to convince me and others to help as well.

When you try to change everything you'll usually end up changing nothing. If you try to change everyone you usually will change no one. And start small! It doesn't take another Cambrian Age or a milankovitch cycle.

For instance, saving gas a drop at a time. Inflating the tires is good idea that I have done for years. I use 35-40PSI, and I buy the tires with the biggest diameter that will fit my car. Be aware, though, that your speedometer will read low unless you get it re-calibrated.

Also, I try to never carry extra weight in the car as every pound counts. In the winter, I only carry snow chains when I may need them. I never just leave them in the trunk. Little things but it all adds up both for gas usage and pollution problems.

The entire community here seperates disposables into 3 different trash cans for easier recycling which I helpped promote. I was the first one to talk everyone on my street into putting the containers on the same side of the street so the trash trucks only had to make one run per street instead of two. Now the other streets are doing the same. Not a big savings of gas but every bit helps.

When politions say, "I have a plan to fix this" but they don't tell you what is the plan, or, they "will impliment the plan when elected". They have no plan or they don't care enough to help the country now, only if elected.

-- Posted by White Tornado on Wed, Aug 13, 2008, at 11:11 PM

Okay, NanaDot, I see where you're coming from. But here's my point; when you've got a list of things like universal healthcare, free college tuition, universal national service, universal 401(k), free job training, wage insurance, free child care, universal preschool, more subsidized private housing, fatter earned income tax credit for the working poor and a Global Poverty Act, and people support all that, it's like forking over all your problems to the government and expecting them to take care of it! (Suuuure!)

I can see how some certain things, i.e. fire departments, police and all that, I can see how it's best for them all to be linked, but really, that's not the issue.

Who in their right mind hears the word "socialism" and screams in horror and runs to whimper in the corner? It's not all that "scary" a word. Now, the thought of the government with an iron clasp on EVERYTHING is a little unnerving. Try to picture "Doctor Zhivago" as instead Dr. Smith of New York.

Little Jimmy Smith just wanted to be a doctor, he worked hard at school, got a medical degree, and went to work. Being a doctor, it just so happened he made some good money. Well then all of a sudden, Uncle Sam (wearing a dark suit and shades) comes to Dr. Smith's home and says, "We're sorry, but you have too much money and own too much property. We're going to cut up your assets and property and give them to the less fortunate (which is code for "less hard-working," in case you didn't know). But don't worry Dr. Smith, you'll get to keep an even portion, and besides, it's for the greater good."

At that point I'd be scared. Scared nothing I do for my family wouldn't be taken and given to some loser who can't hold down a job because he either doesn't show up for work or simply forgets he even HAS to work once he has the job.

"Universal" and "Global" stuff SOUNDS good, but never once has it been effectively put into play on a large scale without people rights being trampled.

Don't think I'm trying to slam your opinion, because I'm not, I simply don't want to be caught up in a world were that sort of thing happens.

I respect your point of view, and your argument that people need service to others ring especially profound in my ears, but I don't want to become a servant to Larry Layabout who does nothing but sit around drinking and watching MTV! That's all I have trouble with.

-- Posted by "When the Music Plays..." on Wed, Aug 13, 2008, at 10:28 PM

Speaking to reporters today, Sen. McCain said:"In the 21st century nations don't invade other nations." Interpretation please!??

-- Posted by modemocrat on Wed, Aug 13, 2008, at 8:37 PM

Yippee! Thank you, Mr. Crump.

-- Posted by Green Eyes on Wed, Aug 13, 2008, at 3:31 PM

Here's a good little something to talk about. Why aren't the Eastwood bridges over Salt Fork completed? I live close to that side of town and my parents live off of 240 Hwy in that direction. It's so convenient to take that route. What's probably worse are the poor people who live directly on the other side of that passage.

-- Posted by Green Eyes on Wed, Aug 13, 2008, at 2:03 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Coincidentally, I asked Mayor Latimer about that just recently but didn't get it in a story yet.

She said the project was slowed by negotiations between the railroad and MoDOT over design details. The plans are, I think, back in MoDOT's hands now, so we might see things start to move again soon.

Here's something I've just got to get out here. Has anybody read this column by Jon Voight? Link: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008...

I was astounded when I first saw it, because it wasn't the typical dribble you hear from Hollywood "stars." I think Voight actually know what he's talking about. And that's a change from what, say, George Clooney has been shoving.

I don't know how many people want to talk about (or even think about) politics in this town, but hey, you can't vote for a guy because he "sounds" good, or "looks" good.

Quoting the subject himself, "Word, just words, that's all."

-- Posted by "When the Music Plays..." on Wed, Aug 13, 2008, at 12:35 PM

I know one of the teachers that is coming into Eastwood this year actually graduated from Valley..... and she did her internship at Eastwood also.....

-- Posted by AnnaBell on Tue, Aug 12, 2008, at 7:37 PM

M&Ms are yum yum!

-- Posted by Green Eyes on Tue, Aug 12, 2008, at 5:34 PM

WhatTheF: This is what I wrote: After the comments here I called my grandson and asked him what he knew which is what I passed on, he was not there at the time but was only saying what he had heard.

What part of that do you NOT understand. Did I not make it plain he was merely telling what he had heard. He didn't give me any more particulars. At the moment he is on a carrier off the coast of Peru as far as I know so I won't hear from him for now.

I do have a message in to Marine Col Greg Douquet who is CO of Parris Island Recruit Depot, an "adopted" son and formerly CO of a helicopter squadron in Iraq long before the Obama visit.

I'll soon hear from him and ask if he knows any more. His wife, Kathy Roth-douquet wrote a book a couple of years ago, AWOL, which you might want to read about how the government elite do not send their kids into combat.

I put adopted in " as he needed help when his parents split up so my wife and I took him in to finish last two years of high school and I then helped him through college at U. of Wash. He joined the Marines to follow in my footsteps and has far exceeded me in the Marines.

I finished as a Captain selected for Major but retired early to become a Pan Am pilot. Obviously, I am very proud of him, and I think he's on a fast track to becoming a general

-- Posted by White Tornado on Tue, Aug 12, 2008, at 12:04 AM

WT,

No disrespect to your grandson, but since he wasn't there for Obama's visit is it possible that he was merely passing on what he "heard" to be fact when we now know that it wasn't?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Aug 11, 2008, at 6:46 PM

NanaDot, you forgot one. The U.S. Aircraft Carrier Forestal was nearly destroyed when someone touched off a sidewinder will sitting on the deck of the aircraft carrier. In the official Navy Department video it clearly shows McCain jumping from the aircraft and rolling through the flames to escape the inferno.

-- Posted by John Q. on Mon, Aug 11, 2008, at 6:44 PM

NANADOT Far more in your blog than I have time to address. And way to many subjects! You offer all kinds of problems but I don't see any suggested solutions.

So tell me, who would you change first and how would you go about it?

-- Posted by White Tornado on Mon, Aug 11, 2008, at 5:15 PM

What the F Have you ever heard of double checking your info? Well, I have and do! After the comments here I called my grandson and asked him what he knew which is what I passed on, he was not there at the time but was only saying what he had heard. Other than in this blog, I have never read anything on it anywhere so I did NOT get an email or a chain letter.

I first heard about it here, emailed a friend in WI whose daughter was in the middle east. Her daughter confirmed that the troops were not at all impressed or happy with Obama also confirmed by the son of her heighbor as well but that is more obtuse.

And I haven't even mentioned the story about Obana not visiting the military hospital because no cameras or news people would be not allowed to go with him. Any info on that?

-- Posted by White Tornado on Mon, Aug 11, 2008, at 5:07 PM

White Tornado,

Ok, now it's your grandson who is also telling you about how Obama "blew off" the troops?

Earlier you had said:

"my info was from the members of a WI Guard unit standing in the line as Obama "hurried past" according to the son of one friend and the daughter of another".

Hmmmmm.......

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Aug 11, 2008, at 12:40 PM

You wrote:

While you may prefer looking at individual share returns, the trick question of course is how many shares do you own? 10, 20, 100000 ? It makes a difference... To only look at individual share return is extremely misleading and hides the extreme wealth it supports.

The per share return is the way to start evaluating a company. Which company is doing better, one making $1,000,000 or the one making $10,000,000? Which family is better off financially? One with $50,000 income and 10 kids or the one with $25,000 income and one child?

-- Posted by White Tornado on Mon, Aug 11, 2008, at 11:56 AM

You wrote:

The question, what's a fair return, is loaded in favor of externalization of costs, minimizing expenses, etc. - which just happen to be minor details like clean water and people/labor....

If we don't challenge the existing definitions of 'returns', costs, etc. we'll keep blowing away the mountains, fouling the water, giving cancer to everyone downstream - but hey, what are they worth anyway... human beings are only a bunch of water and minerals - used to be about $2.86 worth...

This is a completely different subject! (Probably won't find a lot of disagreement in this area other than how to sort it out. I love clean water and drink it almost every day.)

If you had $10,000 to invest to provide income, what would you consider a fair, acceptable return considering how hard you worked over the years to save that much? Retiring people are facing that problem all the time. 4% int. in a bank account while inflation is eroding the value? 12% div. from stocks that can be risky? Just put it under the matress and spend a little as you need? Just $100 per month? It will last about 8 years.

Nanadot, I strongly sense that you lean toward socialism and think everyone should get the same which, as I'm sure you know, would erode ambition, creativeness and the willingness to take a risk to improve the world.

For our system to work, we have to accept that some folks are going to get extremely rich. As long as it's not illegal, accept it. I personally find it offensive that athletes and the Bittany Spears types are so wealthy but I don't suggest we take it away from them.

And how about the Bill Gates of the world? The google developers have made billions, do they deserve it? Would they have been able to do it if they would have been limited to the average income of the country?

And how about the WSOP (World Series of Poker), should there be a cap on how much a poker pot can contain?

-- Posted by White Tornado on Mon, Aug 11, 2008, at 11:49 AM

NanaDot, again I don't think you are considering the total econmy, just the sector you disapprove. Who do you think makes those high end items?

The myth of taking money out of the economy?When I get my monthly dividend check and spend it, is it not putting it back into the system to help generate jobs? Why did the governemnt just send all tax payers (or most, whatever it was) checks for $300 and more if not to do the same thing we retirees do with our investment income?

Surely you can see that companies don't pay taxes, the customers with higher prices and investors with lower div. are paying the tax. The business passes all cost on to the customer or they go out of business or move to China. If Obama doesn't know that, he doesn't know economics, and, if he does know then he's lying to the masses to get their votes.

As far as the "fake" letter about Obama, you are the one being duped by Obama crew covering by claiming a sham. My grandson, a Sgt. in the Marines also tells me the troops have told him how unhappy they were with the Obama media tour. He has completed two tours in the area. So, yes, I trust my grandson over anything put on the internet.

Obama's idea of inflating tires is a good idea since I always have kept my tires inflated to 35-40 psi. It makes the car a little "jumpy" so it takes a little more attention when you drive but it does save gas. (Of course, the Republicans will swear that Obama is in favor of inflation!)

If we really want to save gas, why not outlaw NASCAR and such users? I can't imagine anything more wasteful!

One last comment, the truly wealthy do not get their wealth through dividends so stopping or cutting dividends will not affect them at all.

-- Posted by White Tornado on Mon, Aug 11, 2008, at 11:22 AM

Aikeman8

I am not a journalist and never claimed to be. I do not work for the MDN or KMMO or anywhere else as a journalist. I did however make a comment about something that concerned me that was happening this community a while back and you told me to quit my whining. I was just giving you a little taste of your own medicine and you didn't like it either, or you wouldn't have hissed back at me. No, I'm not a sports fan; however, I do like the Chiefs, but I don't have to glued to every action they take. Come on it's only pre-season. With the Olympics clogging up every moment of television right now can't you find some other sport to soak up your time until football season actually starts.

-- Posted by Typesetter on Mon, Aug 11, 2008, at 10:12 AM

WT my comment re: McCain's connection to the alcoholic beverage industry was intended for those who do care about those sort of things I personally don't care. I am itching to get back in the discussion but my step son is visiting us before he is back in the army and off on another combat tour, so I am going to have to wait a bit before I weigh in. At the moment I don't even have time to read the comments.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Aug 10, 2008, at 10:43 PM

White Tornado,

I have no doubt the e-mail wasn't spam and I am sure you received it from some one you knew. That alone doesn't make it true.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Aug 10, 2008, at 10:30 PM

nanadot, boy, are you misinformed! My former wife and I plus tons of other folks around here are living on social security supplimented by IRA and 401K funds. I get a good size chunk of my monthly income from dividends from oil companies and I don't think I've ever seen a $600 shower curtain.

I agree that there are a lot of the abuses you mention but there are far more people in my situation than there are Donald Trumps in the world. Do me a favor and read "Fleeced" to see what the Clintons are doing in Dubai, Cheney with Halliburton, et al, and ask why Obama isn't addressing that?

Next question, how much profit per share do you think is fair? Are you aware that exxon-mobile made $8.09 per share last year to date, i.e., last 4 quarters, with a P/E of 9.73? Do you think that is excessive?

If so, how do you feel about Toyota making $9.10 per share, P/E of 9.93 for the same time? I can show you dozens of companies that made more than both of these.

If Obama insists on a windfall tax, a lot of investors like me will just invest more out of the country. Canadian gas stocks are paying me over 12% yearly dividends. Part of our economy problems have to do with the money we send overseas for the oil, what do you think will happen if we get an exodus of folks like me?

Royal Dutch made $11.57, Arcelor, a steel maker made $9.68, BP $9.24. Same time frame so who are you going to tax the most?

And just to make sure you understand, that R & D you mention has to come from the income as well (You said: And it doesn't in fact take money 'away' from exploration since that is an R & D tax write off anyway...)

If you think oil is expensive now, wait and see what happens with the windfall tax. First of all, some companies will divert oil to China and India. Gas will then get so short here, we may be back to gas lines and alternate days like in the past. Also, take a trip to England, France, other such places and you'll be happy with $5 per gallon gas here.

-- Posted by White Tornado on Sun, Aug 10, 2008, at 8:55 PM

wow, ecrump, you cited ONE incident of diplomacy working, the cuban missile crisis .. i'll give you that one .. but ... meanwhile .. the clock keeps ticking on iran ... haven't you ever read any books on what they believe?!?! they truly want a revelation-type scenario where the 12th imam comes ... and it's ok in their culture to lie if it gets them to their goal. the left-leaning media loves to ignore that for some reason ... all they are doing is pacifying the western world, buying their time, lying and buying time, pulling off a chamberlain-type thing from ww2, and then they strike. i don't think israel will allow that and they shouldn't. if anyone believes ANY of the comments coming out of iran, then they are truly a fool.

i enjoy the debate with you brother :)

-- Posted by aikman8 on Sun, Aug 10, 2008, at 8:13 PM

well nobody really likes war except for corporate america, but unfortunately you just cant talk your way out of some situations. if you have to be the bad guy, do it in front of them , not behind their backs like most politicians do! IMHO not one politician is working for anybody but to better themself, i work for me not the next guy!

-- Posted by themonsterinme on Sun, Aug 10, 2008, at 4:55 PM

what the F, No, I didn't get my info from an email, my info was from the members of a WI Guard unit standing in the line as Obama "hurried past" according to the son of one friend and the daughter of another. I have spam blocking so I never get emails such as the one you mentioned.

As far as Obama's offers of change, if you remember in 2000 GW made the same offers. The only change we'll see is their changing their minds when they get in office.

Obama talks about windfall profit tax which is saying "tax the shareholders". Any tax of the company comes from whatever profit would go to the shareholders. Or, from the money that would be used for more exploration/drilling.

"Taxing" the shareholders will be taking money out of the economy into government larders, probably adding to the recession risk as more homes go into foreclosure. Don't give Obama credit for understanding economics if he doesn't see that.

Also, in case you have forgotten, Richardson, touted as a possible VP for Obama, was secretary of energy 10 years ago and was instrumental in blocking any oil drilling that he is now pushing. Takes 8 to 10 years to get oil on line so that oil would now be available. Instead we're sending our money to the middle East.

-- Posted by White Tornado on Sun, Aug 10, 2008, at 3:50 PM

"where has diplomacy gotten us in the past???!"

Cuban missile crisis. We ended up not blowing up the world.

That's just one example. Diplomacy is happening all the time everywhere. We just don't hear about it much or don't pay much attention when we do because it's not a grabber like a good invasion.

The long, tedious process of trying to convince North Korea to stop its efforts to develop a nuclear arsenal never makes the front of the mainstream news sites except when there are set-backs, like a missile test or something.

And even that would be pushed off the lead spot by something like Russia invading Georgia, which provides lots of good photos of wounded civilians.

So it goes.

But that doesn't mean diplomacy is not happening or is futile. You just have to look a little harder to find it.

-- Posted by E.C. on Sun, Aug 10, 2008, at 9:12 AM

White Tornado,

I suspect you are the victim of an erroneous e-mail that's been circulating for sometime now. Even though this e-mail has been proven false about Obama's visit to Afghanistan I can't imagine that he would "blow off" the troops in Iraq either. I got that same e-mail from my mother who fell for it hook line and sinker. I invite everyone to do a little research before swallowing any unflattering info about either candidate. This is the world we live in via the internet. Anyone can start a smear campaign about anything. Too many people take these thing at face value and never even bother to seek the truth. There are many sites where one can filter these allegations, snopes.com being one of them.

We have become a nation of Democratic and Republican lemmings where nothing matters as long as "our side" wins. This is a dangerous and lazy attitude. I have not decided who I am voting for yet by I can say that I am not only disgusted by the outright lies circulating about Obama but I am more disgusted by the way the are lapped up like the politcal pablum that they are.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/afg...

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Aug 10, 2008, at 8:45 AM

aikman8 , I agree with most of your post but I think the idea is, "if you don't learn from the past you are condemmed to repeat it".

A friend in WI, who's son is in Iraq, said that Obama didn't even stop to chat or shake hands with his unit. They were very disappointed as he rushed by as they stood at attention in the heat. I have lost most all my respect for Obama. I have been a Marine standing in the heat in such situations. Screw Obama and the horse he rode in on. I'll vote libertarian as usual, a protest vote more than anything else.

-- Posted by White Tornado on Sun, Aug 10, 2008, at 12:23 AM

I recently saw a photo of Obama with his arm around the shoulders of James Hoffa, Teamster's current President. The teamster's officials were going to the union offices and pushing Obama.

Why? Because Obama evidently promised to remove the Congressional oversight committee of the teamsters saying that the problem was solved since no more corruption for 5 years. This is the most corrupt union in the history of the US.

As I've mentioned before, saying the problem is solved and time to remove the correcting unity is like saying a stop sign is no longer needed as there have not been any accident for a couple of years. The stop sign is not a cure merely a deterent, The same with the oversight committee, any questions about who is getting paid off here?

If you are concerned about the Obama tax situation, read a new book out, "Fleeced", If it is correct Obama will really hurt my sector of the country, retired folks living on social security and small investments.

-- Posted by White Tornado on Sun, Aug 10, 2008, at 12:14 AM

nanadot ... where has diplomacy gotten us in the past???! oh yeah, i remember ... it was a big reason for ww1 (what country won that?), and it was the MAIN reason for ww2 and some guy named hitler, remember him???!?! he kind of played off the fact that countries tried to use diplomacy with him, mainly chamberlain and his crew. holocaust ring a bell to you?!?!?

what's that phrase? if you don't know your past you are bound to repeat it?!?!? you go ahead, pacify iran and obama the rookie ... we'll see what happens ;) i'm not saying that obama will cause any problems, but honestly look at the news coming out of israel ... they don't trust him at all and are worried he won't support them ... if your existence was on the line like that what would you do?

i'm certainly not trusting obama. why by golly, he has thought about using john edwards as his vp, lol.

-- Posted by aikman8 on Sun, Aug 10, 2008, at 12:14 AM

choose your poison, oklahoma reader ... of course it's a problem! i'm not sure many republicans are very happy with having mccain as their choice, but it still beats the rookie obama ... the main issue here is terrorism and defending this country ... that's why i'm voting mccain, even though i don't agree with him at all on many things. he certainly can be trusted more with this country's safety over a naive rookie like obama, and i think you'll start seeing the polls and voters start swinging toward that way, especially if something happens world wide ... more russian interference in georgia, God forbid something bad happening at the summer olympics more than someone getting stabbed like earlier today, or the big one .. israel attacking iran ... all bets are off then.

-- Posted by aikman8 on Sat, Aug 9, 2008, at 10:18 PM

oklahoma reader, about the baptists being against alcohol, I seem to have heard something about Jesus turning water into wine. Was that just a cheap parlour trick or did he offer it to the masses to drink? I don't quite understand how a religious person can be against the actions of Jesus. (I'm atheist so I don't understand all I know about religious actions.)

I support the actions against drunk drivers, et al, but not against the beverage. And I do not partake. Enlightenment, please.

-- Posted by White Tornado on Sat, Aug 9, 2008, at 6:20 PM

This school firing thing is something isn't it? The teachers think what they did was right. That is if they actually did it at all. The teachers say they didn't. The evidence says they did.

Now there is an appeal going on. I finally realized the whole deal was not a civil lawsuit; not a criminal matter as the violations pertain to school law.

Some are making comments like this is something other than what it is. Think of the School District as a company. Public owned, but a company. Companies fire people for violating policies, procedures and various other things.

Some teachers got caught up in something that they were probably urged to do. They should have known it was wrong. They went on with it anyway. Who told them it was OK? If they have any kind of "defense", it is they were doing as ordered.

Mr. Nasteff strikes me as being a very intelligent, charismatic person. He seemed to apply the "O.J." defense. Throw out the smoke

to obscure. Stress the good character of his clients.

Mr. Nasteff has done a good job. If I ever need a lawyer, he is exactly the kind I would want representing me.

As I see it, the appeal will be considered by the Judge based on school law. Not civil law per se, not criminal law.

The end result will be interesting, what?

-- Posted by red dog on Sat, Aug 9, 2008, at 12:32 PM

The Southern Baptist convention remains in total opposition to the manufacturing, advertising, distribution, and consuming of alcoholic beverages. John McCain's wife is the majority owner of one of the largest beer distributors in the nation. She states that she does run the corporation. Her company employees lobbyists to fight positions taken by such organizations as Mothers Against Drunk Drivers. We have never had a large corporation run from the Whitehouse. In the senate Mr. McCain has excused himself from all votes concerning the conflict. As President he would not be able to excuse himself from a position on the conflicting issues. Does this create a problem for Southern Baptist voters? Greater details on this story may be of interest to Baptist, and similar minded voters. They may be found in the Los Angeles Times at http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/...

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Aug 9, 2008, at 3:01 AM

I've been out of the loop for several days. What are the results of the Tuesday election?

-- Posted by John Q. on Fri, Aug 8, 2008, at 10:57 PM

i guess that shows why you are a typesetter, typesetter, and not a journalist ... you can't see even just a tiny bit of newsworthiness in there?!?! c'mon. just because YOU aren't a sports fan doesn't mean it's not newsworthy.

and by the way ... i agree ... kmmo normally does a wonderful job, and their weather coverage is something i tune in for during bad weather because it's excellent coverage. they just happened to drop the ball on this one, no pun intended.

-- Posted by aikman8 on Fri, Aug 8, 2008, at 2:20 PM

I'm like a day late and a dollar short. heh heh

-- Posted by slater41 on Fri, Aug 8, 2008, at 2:00 PM

If you're inclined to browse the M-DN archives, you'll find a story posted about him a few months ago.

Sorry, but I don't recall his name, either.

-- Posted by slater41 on Fri, Aug 8, 2008, at 1:58 PM

Check out this link outsider

http://www.marshallnews.com/story/144035...

-- Posted by Oldblackcat on Fri, Aug 8, 2008, at 1:34 PM

Who's the Marshall native with the Chiefs?

-- Posted by outsider on Fri, Aug 8, 2008, at 12:54 PM

themonsterinme, Hey, you're right! Been trying to recall that name for a couple of days. Yes, a light and fun movie that I really enjoyed. Thanks!

-- Posted by White Tornado on Fri, Aug 8, 2008, at 12:11 PM

Quit your whining Aikman8, Its football - not the end of the world. I suppose if there had been stormy weather and they wouldn't have run the Chiefs game you would have complained then too?

-- Posted by Typesetter on Fri, Aug 8, 2008, at 9:19 AM

Let's not down KMMO too much they are fantastic compared to other radio stations in the area-- especially KMZU -- they are horrible-- at least most of the time KMMO carries the chiefs.

-- Posted by workingmom on Fri, Aug 8, 2008, at 8:16 AM

white tornado - i am pretty sure the name of that movie is "short circuit"! it is a pretty funny movie!

-- Posted by themonsterinme on Thu, Aug 7, 2008, at 10:50 PM

KMMO is usually a very good station, but they sure blew it tonight!

chiefs first game of the year, yes just a pre-season game, but fans have been waiting for months even for this ... on top of that the royals have a day off so they don't have to carry them ... someone explain to me why kmmo didn't carry the chiefs game on radio??!? i even called the station asking why, but the person answering the phone couldn't tell me, had no idea why not, was wondering that herself.

here's why it's a big deal ... i watched the game on tv, but also tried tuning in to the radio hoping to hear marshall native art hains debut on the chiefs broadcast ... he did a great job ... but no one around here would know that unless they were like me, tuning in through the static to 101.1 the fox ... who's making the broadcasting decisions at kmmo? obviously not someone in touch with the local scene, someone asleep at the wheel. this one was a no-brainer!

let's see .. chiefs first game, first-time ever a marshall native has reached the bigtime with the chiefs, and they don't even carry the game. way to go KMMO! you definitely have gas!

-- Posted by aikman8 on Thu, Aug 7, 2008, at 10:33 PM

what the f, thanks for the input. Actually it is the LED lights I'm working with not the one's mentioned in the article. The article made a point of GE stock jumping 8% on the news but big deal! GE has lost 39% so far since a year ago. I sold all my GE stock several months ago, GE and Pfizer have been a big disappointment for me.

The company I'm following and building a stock position in is CREE makers of the LED lights which do work with a dimmer. In my former wife's home we recently installed them for counter tops and they work great and only about as big as the tip of my little finger. Haven't had them long enough to learn the lifetime.

The link you enclosed was very interesting. Thanks again.

-- Posted by White Tornado on Thu, Aug 7, 2008, at 7:57 PM

koeller77. Ca. hasn't banned them but the tree huggers are pushing for it. I'll do more research and see what I can find. Thanks for the input. BTW, what is the name of that movie where the robot became Number 5 and later Johnnie 5? Cute movie but I forget the title.

-- Posted by White Tornado on Thu, Aug 7, 2008, at 7:38 PM

The bad thing about CFL's is that they contain large amounts of mercury. When disposed of improperly, these bulbs release more mercury into the environment than coal-fired power plants.

-- Posted by Owl12345 on Thu, Aug 7, 2008, at 3:55 PM

Here's a link you should read before you get on board with this new light bulb farce.

http://americanelephant.wordpress.com/20...

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Aug 7, 2008, at 11:35 AM

Oh, and Kathy, I think a new story on quilts would be lovely for you to write! We have to get you caught up to Editor Crump! :-)

Maybe a follow-up on whatever happened to the famous "AIDS Quilt"???

-- Posted by koeller77 on Thu, Aug 7, 2008, at 8:46 AM

White Tornado -

Although I was initially reluctant to use those new fluorescent (sp?) bulbs, I have been made a convert! They are not as unflattering as the office bulbs that we are typically used to in fluorescents and I will start replacing all but my children's nightlights with the new bulbs as the old incandescents die.

BTW, I believe California has outlawed incandescents already (or someone at least proposed it!) If they use less electricity and are overall better for the environment, I guess I'm all for them. I believe some power companies offer rebates as well for the purchase of these bulbs to help offset the costs.

-- Posted by koeller77 on Thu, Aug 7, 2008, at 8:44 AM

I need some input. There are companies developing new light bulbs that are several times as long lasting, much more efficient power usage, much more friendly to the world but also cost several times as much as current bulbs.

My question is how likely are you to buy these bulbs? Should I invest in the stock of such companies?

As you may know, several other countries of the world have "outlawed" the use of the incandesent bulbs we use in the US due to the higher usage of electricity. How likely are we, the U S, to follow suit and regulate/ban the usage of these bulbs?

Also, do you think we have too many lights glowing at all hours of the day and night? If so, how do we address that without eroding our personal liberties? "Input, Number 5 needs more input!"

-- Posted by White Tornado on Thu, Aug 7, 2008, at 12:12 AM

Here's a story from another paper about HMC/CAH, the organization that bought I-70 Medical Center:

http://www.hillsborofreepress.com/conten...

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Aug 6, 2008, at 3:25 PM

It is odd, isn't it, Eric? ;)

You're doing all the work and I'm getting all the, uh, "credit!"

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Aug 6, 2008, at 2:59 PM

Just out of curiosity I did a quick search:

Stories about quilts or quilting by me:

http://www.marshallnews.com/story/143660...

http://www.marshallnews.com/story/128376...

http://www.marshallnews.com/story/128376...

http://www.marshallnews.com/story/117056...

http://www.marshallnews.com/story/115743...

Stories about quilts or quilting by Kathy:

http://www.marshallnews.com/story/124985...

Why does everybody keep suggesting Kathy write about quilts? Am I doing something wrong??? I'm starting to get a complex here!

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Wed, Aug 6, 2008, at 1:22 PM

You'll be waiting a long time, Secret Agent. That's usually Eric's field :)

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Aug 6, 2008, at 1:10 PM

I'm looking forward to reading more about Kathy's quilts.

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Wed, Aug 6, 2008, at 12:42 PM

Gosh, I was so busy writing about quilts and all...

Actually, aneditor, I did write a column on voting earlier this year.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Aug 6, 2008, at 11:25 AM

You should maybe write a COLUMN on it, Kathy.

-- Posted by aneditor on Wed, Aug 6, 2008, at 11:23 AM

More than 16,000 eligible voters in Saline County...roughly 17-18% bothered to vote yesterday. IMHO, that's a disgrace.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Aug 6, 2008, at 10:45 AM

Kathy, DAgates, and others,

I agree with all of your statements. The auto industry should not find the current economy a huge surprise. I have little sympathy for the big SUV guzzling manufacturers. HOWEVER, I do have sympathy for the dealers who are trying to pass these things off now or the individual seller who wants to get into something economical but can't sell because their trade is not worth the paper the title is printed on.

We live in a farming community and I do not think my mind will be changed on the local dealers having trucks for their options. The cute little college girl driving the dually truck is usually a member of the MVC Rodeo team and they need a big truck to pull the horse trailer to rodeo events. I know this because most of them live near me at the old Saline County Rest home.

K Mullins-Lamb

-- Posted by writerintraining on Wed, Aug 6, 2008, at 8:05 AM

White Tornado - you're right on the money - "The time to do it was yesterday." We've had plenty of information in the last 30 years or so, since the oil embargo, to get a grip on the need for less dependence on how much oil we use, foreign or otherwise. No part of the current situation should come as a surprise.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Aug 6, 2008, at 7:31 AM

Hi folks, a couple of comments on cars and fuel savings. Does it help if I trade in my big gas guzzler for a hybraid? (I don't actually have one of those!)

NO! my trade in will then be sold to a person such as one of the Mexican workers here in Ca. who will put more miles on the car than I ever did! They need a cheap car to get to work.

The only way it will help is if I completely retire or destroy my old car! Or maybe put it up on blocks in my back yard.

The point is that it will take a long time to get the gas usage down and/or alternate energy in place but the time to start was yesterday. In the meantime, every little thing you can do will help. Learn to drive economically, walk when you can, use a bike if you can, and most of all, be patient with others trying to save a little fuel.

I have a bit of money invested in oil companies so I'm better off with high oil usage but for the sake of the planet I would like to see oil usage come way down.

-- Posted by White Tornado on Wed, Aug 6, 2008, at 1:53 AM

writerintraining that is just hype that people are being force fed. How many farmers are there in the rural area. I'm talking about population density...most of the people in Saline County don't live in rural areas they live in Marshall, Slater, Miami, Sweet Springs, in the towns. The lots are full of trucks and SUV's. So the dealers are catering to the few farmers with a lot full of trucks and SUV's instead of the 90% majority who aren't farmers. I mean really I'm not knocking the farmers they are the only ones who have the valid excuse for having the truck but does the cute little college girl/boy need a four door diesel truck to haul their books around in.

Why are the fuel miser cars not available...it's not because everyone is buying them, it's because the auto industry is not making enough to meet demand. If the hybrids aren't available off the lot for the customer to see, test drive and put their hands on, then of course they aren't going to sell. I mean really how many people go to a dealership and order the car direct from the factory and wait a month for it to get to them...very few. The vast majority buy off the lot. Also just another point the ones (hybrids) that are being made are being sold considerably higher than other similiar sized vehicles. Where is the incentive to buy when the hybrid cost $5000-$10000 more.

They feed the hype that the technology is more expensive to make a hybrid but is it really??? I mean aren't you getting a 90 hp engine (hamster wheel)with an even lower hp electric motor and not a 200-300 hp SUV/truck engine, which is more expensive to make? I mean for goodness sake we have the technology to land rovers on Mars, the internet, computers, Iphones and on and on and on, but some how the car industry has seen little improvement??

-- Posted by DAgates on Tue, Aug 5, 2008, at 11:19 PM

DAgates.

Very good. I drive a Toyota, I know what you are saying about with the gas guzzlers. I am afraid that one reason the trucks and SUV's are all sitting on the lots is because the more economical vehicles (hybirds) are very hard to find right now. Plus, keep in mind, we are a farming community and dealers still must stock for local demand I would think.

By the way, I don't expect the school week to change either but it makes for good conversation!

-- Posted by writerintraining on Tue, Aug 5, 2008, at 8:48 PM

I apologize for not commenting NanaDot, but after reading a few of the posts I realized that basically people are either for or totally against the idea of a four day week for schools (especially after viewing the results of the poll question). I simply didn't feel the need to rehash ideas that were already being commented on.

However, I can clearly see that people don't like making sacrifices. Even though we are contributing to our own downfall as a country because of our addiction to oil, people still continue to buy the gas-guzzling SUVs. It doesn't matter what time we eat dinner does it? Or changing our babysitting schedule? Are you people serious? If I could help cut demand for fuel by simply reducing the school day to four, I would do it in a heartbeat. Block scheduling is great! You get more done and there is more time to actually spend with the students to make sure they understand the assignment and get things done while their at school (Charter schools do it).

See, NanaDot it probably was best that I not comment because I tend to get on a tangent. I agree with your ideas on going green. Part of going green though is by cutting back. I don't think we are cutting our throats by reducing the school week because like everything else in our world we must learn to adapt. Schools have a huge impact on our fuel usage because of the busses they have to use, they have to gas up, they have to pick up our kids and take them home. When school starts back up, I can almost guarantee gas prices will go back up again. Towns that are not willing to make any sacrifices will continue to contribute to our economic downfall.

Therefore, I will continue to pay a ridiculous price at the pump and wonder when things will change for the better. When I heard about Lincoln switching to a four day week, I applauded them and I recognize their contribution to society. Marshall should too.

-- Posted by Marshall Citizen on Tue, Aug 5, 2008, at 8:47 PM

I think the point of going to a 4 day week was never a real topic of concern. That is never going to happen here regardless of our petty blog arguments. People in our community are not very receptive to change. If you think Marshall will vote for a $15,000,000 tax bond to build a new elementary school in your lifetime or mine your face is going to turn a serious shade of blue before you pass out from lack of oxygen.

With that said if you think Marshall is going green anytime in this generation or the next I would stop holding my breath now. Take just one example...drive by any of the car dealerships in Marshall and tell me do you see more fuel economical cars or do you see 95% gas guzzlers. Are all the 15 mpg trucks sitting in the front being showcased or are the hybrids in the front. Actually go to the dealer and ask them to show you a hybrid and they will tell you they don't have any and about how they are not really as fuel economical as advertised.

If we were for change and wanted to actually go green there would be a line of hybrids or at least the many other available 35 mpg vehicles in the front being showcased. Of course it just isn't the auto makers fault but ours as well. Next time you're out in your 15mpg gas guzzler checkout the other gas guzzlers on the road. How many Ford Excursions/Expeditions do you see only occupied by the lone driver. How about those Hummers being paraded around town.

We can do all the touchy feely blog post in the world but they won't change a thing. What will change things is $5 $6 $7 gas per gallon. When your pocket book gets hit with the $5 $6 $7 gallon of milk then ideology will change. If we are lucky the federal government will finally grab a hold of a pair and bring about real change and require the auto industry to make real change. If you haven't seen the movie "Who killed the electric car?" rent it and realize how much smoke has been blown. Somebody mentioned in a previous post about nuclear energy and France having 70% of their electricity from nuclear energy. I thought we were the greatest nation on the planet earth not France. We can't use the 3 mile island mishap as an excuse anymore, technology and safety measures have grown by leaps and bounds so that's not a valid excuse anymore.

I could go on and on, but I will end with this when you vote make sure you vote for someone who is going make the change happen and get us out of the downward spiraling cycle we are in.

-- Posted by DAgates on Tue, Aug 5, 2008, at 8:09 PM

What about the day the kids would be home and the parents at work? Parents may have to find proper care for younger children. Also, what about cost of living for the one day the children are at home. That's food cost, electricity, water that the parents don't worry about with the 5-day schedule. May end up costing more per year for the families.

-- Posted by Green Eyes on Tue, Aug 5, 2008, at 4:35 PM

DAgates,

I don't eat by 6 p.m. when I work until 5 p.m. I generally serve something hot so maybe I am just a slow cook.

-- Posted by writerintraining on Tue, Aug 5, 2008, at 1:41 PM

Don't most families eat supper at 6PM?

-- Posted by DAgates on Tue, Aug 5, 2008, at 1:22 PM

The activity fee conserves nothing. It's just a way to pass along yet another price hike to the parents without adjusting the budget or coming up with a real solution.Not much of a solution in my opinion.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Aug 5, 2008, at 11:50 AM

Here is a story about how Indiana schools are considering recouping fuel costs through an activity fees surcharge. Students would be charged $25.00 per activity. What do you think about this solution?

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/17091...

-- Posted by milliemouse on Tue, Aug 5, 2008, at 9:56 AM

Jo, if you can, send it email to rdaleabney@gmail.com I barely remember my grandfather as I was actually brought into the Abney family when I was 7 years old (by marriage). I doubt I would recognize the photo. By the way, Jo was/is the middle name of Donna Jo Barr, my first "crush". Any idea where she might be?

-- Posted by White Tornado on Tue, Aug 5, 2008, at 9:41 AM

What a fun video about the market on the square! Glad to read there are more to come. Super "individuals" stepped up and did something to draw folks to the downtown retailers. Seems this could be the start of good things to come! Thanks to the market organizers for taking the lead!

-- Posted by Muffin on Tue, Aug 5, 2008, at 9:08 AM

DAgates and nanadot,

You said what I was trying to say earlier. Three day weekends I'm sure work great for the teachers and families that have access to working a four 10 hour day. I leave the house at 6:30 a.m. now, I see the kids and then again at 4 p.m. when I get off. Add another hour of them being at school, tennis practice, etc. They show up at my house by 8 p.m. for dinner. Ouch, indigestion in the making everynight in my kitchen.

-- Posted by writerintraining on Mon, Aug 4, 2008, at 10:39 PM

WhiteTornado, I Was looking through an album, and i found a picture of your grandad holding one of his kids. If you want it i will get it to you,if you tell me how?

-- Posted by Jo on Mon, Aug 4, 2008, at 9:58 PM

Follow up: I'm not sure about the lower grades but the high schools here in Ca. are much like college was in the 50's in that not all kids come to school at the same time nor get out at the same time.

I coached the baseball team for several years and both girls and boys tennis teams for 8-10 years and it wasn't easy being a coach if you wanted all the players at practice at the same time. Obviously tennis was easier but baseball was a real challenge.

Over the years, about 10 with tennis, I had 4 valedictorians and 2 runners up so a coach really can't "insist" they miss study for tennis. We missed winning league one year due to my best player also being a top student and had an important class. He wanted to skip the class but I insisted he go as I wasn't a coach all that caught up in winning. Our focus was having fun and playing tennis all their life.

So, it does take some sacrifice but the end result is worth it. He now is CEO of his own company in silicon valley making and selling special devices for handicapped folks, stuff he has designed and developed.

-- Posted by White Tornado on Mon, Aug 4, 2008, at 8:59 PM

Some thoughts on the oil situatuion. I recently, July 20th and back on Aug. 3rd.,drove 900 miles each way on Sunday. Usually Sun. is a quiet driving day on I-5 but these were both very heavy traffic including stop and go on high speed roads so don't tell me we are using less gas!

Probably less than 10% hybraids or the like, mostly big pick-ups and SUVs with a "ton" of semi's with quite a few two trailers. China is getting 9 million new cars each year, at last count we had 250,851,833 registered autos in the U S of A. (I didn't actually count them myself, Gov. figures about 2 years old).

The last time I ran the numbers, a few months ago, we, the U S, had just over 48 years of known (proven) reserves at the current usage rate. So, oil/gas keeps going up in cost so get ready for it.

Alternate energy will be the next boom/bust in the stock market so invest accordingly. T. Boone Pickens has some good ideas but it will take a number of years to impliment as would nuclear if "we" ever get around to accepting and approving it. (The French get just over 70% of their electricity from nuclear.)

So, that's the situation in a nutshell! How about some ideas and suggestions on where we go from here. All that school talk needs to address more about what the kids are taught as well as when. We need those bright new minds to help us old folks and science needs to take the forefront.

Out here in California, the granola of the world (them that aren't nuts or fruits are flakes), home schooling is a big thing. I have a 9 year old grand nephew who is a certified genius. He will probably finish college before he can legally drive. My former wife and I have been spending a lot of time home schooling him. The kid is absolutel;y amazing, especially in music (which Bonnie helps him with) and astrophysics which I am helping him understand. We just studied parsecs which he grasped so quick I was stunned.

Surely you have such kids there so take them under your tutoring (or as Devin said, "tutoliage", a word he coined). The future is now as we used to say in the hippie days. Evolve or get left behind.

PS: To save you having to look it up if you don't know, a parsec is a distance from the sun resulting in a parallax of one second of arc as seen from earth.

-- Posted by White Tornado on Mon, Aug 4, 2008, at 8:42 PM

Sorry wasn't my intent to sound hateful or patronizing (by the way how the heck did you come to that conclusion anyway) just expressing an opinion.

As far as sports there would be a whole free day on Friday for sports. Also usually the 10 hour 4 days a week go hand in hand with block scheduling. A student would not go to the same class everyday but would have 1.5 hour classes which allows for more instruction time. As a teacher I'm sure many would agree that a 50 minute class isn't much time for classroom instruction. Also this allows the students more classroom time to complete assignments and if they don't finish they don't have the same class for two days (skip a day) which allows them extra time to complete assignments.

I know this is a different concept but many schools across the nation use this concept successfully and enjoy the time it allows for family. Once again a three day weekend every weekend sounds pretty enticing not only for students but for the parents and teachers as well.

Nanadot I agree with all the green ideas out there but it cost money for those ideas to be implemented. If you take hybrid vehicles for instance. They are usually about $5000 more expensive, which means you really don't recoup your cost with the gas savings especially if you paid for the car with financing. Building green an average cost about 3 times more than conventional building means.

And just for future reference having a different opinion doesn't mean the person is being hateful or patronizing.

-- Posted by DAgates on Mon, Aug 4, 2008, at 8:35 PM

DAgates,

Going to a four day work week also cuts into after school sports activities and I can't imagine the headache the coaches would have meeting requirements as far as participation. I know my son is gone so much during tennis season and he would miss even more with 10 hour days. I am more in favor of a reduced year long school year.

-- Posted by writerintraining on Mon, Aug 4, 2008, at 6:01 PM

Just to point out a simple observation...if you retrofit busses or revamp buildings to be more energy efficient how much money are we talking about spending to complete the task. $15,000,000 for a new building.

I was talking about saving money not spending money. How long will it take to recoup the cost of doing the above revamping? If it takes 20 years to pay off the debt are we saving the money in the present? If you're not wearing horse blinders then you can see we are clearly in a recession. Gas prices will continue to zig zag in an upward pattern. I would say gas will be at $4.00 a gallon in our town this time next year. Other consumable goods will follow in the upward trend, such as food. We need to think of how to conserve money not spend more, putting a higher tax burden on our citizens.

-- Posted by DAgates on Mon, Aug 4, 2008, at 1:13 PM

If schools went to four days a week instead of 5 wouldn't there be additional food costs/personnel in the form of an afternoon snack for students? Some students eat so early a snack would seem necessary.

With high school football and basketball games on Fridays, which I realize are short term in the scope of things and small compared to receiving a good education, would a Tuesday through Friday schedule be better? It would also alleviate the Monday morning rush after the weekend for the younger children.

-- Posted by Muffin on Mon, Aug 4, 2008, at 1:04 PM

I also would love four day school for our children. Its time to make a change, everyone feels the money crunch this is one way that can help everyone.

-- Posted by loveyourchildren on Mon, Aug 4, 2008, at 9:26 AM

I'm not sure about the less time with the family comment, for the simple reason that you would have a three day weekend every weekend with your family. I could think of a lot of things on an extended three day weekend to do with the family. Most schools that do the 10 hour days are actually over at 5pm. As a teacher I think it would be nice to have the straight three days off to grade papers and prepare lesson plans. There was a baby sitting comment made...if your child is in school until 5 pm there is your free baby sitting until you get off work. Friday is the extra day of baby sitting you need, but it's not extra time or money it's just a different time frame. You don't have to pay the sitter anymore from 3:00 to 5:00 Monday through Thursday it just turns into your Friday sitter time.

-- Posted by DAgates on Mon, Aug 4, 2008, at 12:06 AM

Consider this, if the schools were to switch to a longer, four day system, would we see block scheduling? Anyone's thoughts on block scheduling? More time to teach and complete lessons? Or simply a waste of time?

-- Posted by Greg House on Sun, Aug 3, 2008, at 9:45 PM

I checked the census for 2000 on school population and here's what I found for public schools only: kindergarten, 187; grades 1 to 4, 710; grades 5 to 8, 647; grades 9 to 12, 554. Marshall's population is dropping slightly, so these numbers are probably lower now than they were in 2000. If the students in K through 4 are all at Eastwood, Benton, Northwest and Southeast, that's an average of about 250 in each building. Just as an FYI, that puts 647 at Bueker, with another 554 at Marshall High.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sun, Aug 3, 2008, at 8:52 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
I think the numbers are higher than that. Here's DESE's figures:

http://dese.mo.gov/schooldata/profile/p5...

They show in the neighborhood of 900 students at MHS, more than 750 at BMS and almost 2,500 for the whole district in FY2008.

Those are numbers similar to what local school officials use.

If there's one thing district folks -- teachers, administrators and board members -- agree upon it's that Marshall schools are just about at capacity now and could not handle much further growth in student population.

According to the last census, Marshall is not growing by leaps and bounds. I question whether there is really that many children in our schools? Four 10 hour days will cut down on family time together, businesses who utilize teens to work, and if I were a teacher, I would be more stressed spending longer days within the classroom. Not working for me!

-- Posted by writerintraining on Sun, Aug 3, 2008, at 8:09 PM

I agree about not having the neighborhood schools. The numbers first obviously don't jive up, but more importantly neighborhood schools were done away with due to segregation of lower income families from middle and upper income families. I think it also tends to lead to rivalries in the community.

I do however think that a little research would show substantial savings by going to a 10 hour 4 day school week. This money could be spent on books, upkeep of buildings, the children, etc

-- Posted by DAgates on Sun, Aug 3, 2008, at 7:32 PM

How do you suggest the administrators fit 1/4 of all Marshall students in Grades k-6 in each of the elementary schools? The school buildings barely have enough room to fit one grade level in them. Where would these new students possibly go in these buildings? If you estimate that each grade level has approximately 220 students in it, and then multiply that number by 7(the number of grades you suggest could fit in each elementary building), and then divide by 4 (the number of elementary school buildings in this town), you come up with 385 students. That number of students is far greater than the number of students that are currently attending school in each building. I believe it might even be a violation of fire code to attempt to fit that many students in each building.

-- Posted by Owl12345 on Sun, Aug 3, 2008, at 5:36 PM

It is not just about saving gas for bus routes but think of the energy savings for powering down 50,000 plus square foot buildings if you went to four 10 hour school days instead. I would imagine heating and cooling bills for school districts take a big chunk of money per month.

-- Posted by DAgates on Sun, Aug 3, 2008, at 5:19 PM

It doesn't seem like an entirely bad idea to drop a day to save the cost of gas, but what do parents who both work do with the children on that fifth day? The school district saves gas money, but the parents are then required to shoulder some extra daycare cost.

I do like the idea of returning to neighborhood schools and eliminating a lot of the bus rides. I rode a bus to school throughout grade school and high school because I lived on an air base, but I envied the kids who could walk home for lunch. (They, of course, envied me not having to walk at all.)

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sun, Aug 3, 2008, at 1:34 PM

In Marshall we should go back to the neighbor hood schools as just they were designed to be. All the elementary schools should go back to K-6 grade and the kids in those areas can walk or ride bikes to school just like I did back then. As it is now we are bussing kids all over town and it's ridiculous.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Aug 3, 2008, at 11:51 AM

Here's a change of topic notgvnasht. I heard the other day that Lincoln schools have changed their five days of school to four in order to combat the effects of high gas prices. I wonder if other schools in Missouri will follow this example? How would you guys feels if Marshall schools dropped Friday and made longer school days instead? It's a struggle for schools right now because gas is a big part of the budget for rural schools, and I know the big schools probably could save a lot of gas money too if they only had to drive four days a week instead of five.

-- Posted by Marshall Citizen on Sun, Aug 3, 2008, at 10:51 AM

NanaDot - it sure will! Hope he gets started on it soon. :)

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sun, Aug 3, 2008, at 10:28 AM

Speak Out was getting kind of full again. To see where we were at in the conversation:

http://www.marshallnews.com/story/144116...

And to read all past Speak Out discussions:

http://www.marshallnews.com//topic/speak...

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Sat, Aug 2, 2008, at 4:43 PM


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