![[Marshall Democrat-News]](http://www.marshallnews.com/images/nameplate-small.png){kind=small}
RSS
Print
Email link
Respond to editor
Read comments (66)Third-grade teachers Dawn Plummer and Crystal McGraw and special education teacher Nathan Reeder were accused in May by former Interim Superintendent Donn Quick of inappropriately helping students prepare for the Missouri Assessment Program test and for possessing unauthorized copies of the MAP test.
The board voted unanimously to fire each of the teachers.
Board members Cindy Brandt, Kathy Green, Jeanette Klinge, Sherrie Stouffer and President Anita Wright attended the special board meeting Friday, July 25. Board members Mark Gooden and Larry Godsey were absent. Godsey is on military deployment overseas.
The attorney for the three teachers, Mark Nasteff of Kansas City, was unavailable for comment and according to his office will be unavailable until Aug. 4.
But during the two-night hearing July 8 and July 9 for the teachers, Nasteff alerted the board that he would be laying the foundation for an appeal.
According to district policy covering the termination of professional staff, the appeal can be made to the local circuit court.
"The teacher may appeal the decision of the Board of Education to the circuit court of the county where the district is located. The appeal shall be taken within 15 days after service of a copy of the decision of the Board of Education upon the teacher, and if an appeal is not taken within that time, then the decision of the Board of Education shall become final."
Superintendent Craig Noah said the search would begin to find replacement teachers.
"We'll find some great teachers and get them in the classroom," he said.
He acknowledged that the search may be a challenge this late in the traditional teacher hiring season.
"It's late, but we're optimistic," he said.The school board has scheduled another special meeting for Thursday, July 31, at 5:30 p.m.
On the agenda is consideration of paving bids and consideration of a Missouri School Board Association Medicaid claiming services contract.
The board also expects to go into closed session to discuss personnel matters.
On the Net:
http://policy.msbanet.org/marshall/showp...
Contact Eric Crump at
How the heck can DESE testify that what they did was okay when it is against protocol? It was anyway when I was a teacher administering the tests in a different district.
iteach,
I don't think DESE had anything to do with this matter. DESE testified that what the accused teachers were doing was ok!
I wonder if DESE may have pressured the school system to make examples of these teachers.
Editor Crump,
I would also like to add that if it is an unsupportable claim to say that the accusers used the MAP Test unethically, then it should also be an unsupportable claim to say something to the same effect about the accused teachers, which many have frequently done. I believe you have even perpetrated this "unsupportable" claim against the accused teachers. Perhaps we should have everyone follow the same set of rules when judging those around here.
Editor Crump,
Perhaps golfer meant that the "accusers" used the test inappropriately by holding onto a copy of the test for over TWO years. By doing so, the accusing teachers were clearly in violation of DESE regulations on test security. While some are convinced the accusing teachers did not use their copies of the test to prepare their students for the MAP, it is of no consequence whether they used the test or not. They were already in violation of the regulations by holding onto the test.
The teachers that testified for the School district and against the defendants where most likely granted immunity for any protocol violations on their part. They would be foolish to testify without such a promise. These agreements are common in a judicial process. I am surprised that the defense attorney did not ask if they were granted immunity or given a similar promise in his cross examinations. I am sure if Mr. Crump asked the right people he could verify one way or the other.
If they did not get immunity then those of you posting on here which are so adamant that the defendants must be fired and punished to set the world straight again, should be demanding for the heads of those that testified for the distict also. I mean that would only be fair, Right?
Mr. Crump: You are mistaken maybe. If you will remember Mrs. Kleinschmidt said that one of the accused teachers had a child in her room that had the test memorized but follwing the side bar it was clarified that it was not the student of one of the accused teachers but one of the teachers that testified against them. That is disturbing. There shouldn't have been just three on trial.
It is amazing that shorty'sdaughter wrote about not spreading gossip and she doesn't have a personal cell phone. But yet you are on this sight sharing information that has zero relativity to this entire situation. You are just as disrespectful as the time you and I have taken to write on this section. But let me tell you something. When the water completely boils dry and my child and yours is being taught by a teacher that was clealy proven during the hearing to have used the copy of the test that was hidden in her "where ever" (her answer was so ridiculous... I am ashamed to even repeat it), Just remember that you were in favor of those that spoke up to stay in their position. Mrs. Kleinschmidt proved that teacher completely dishonest. And for those that spoke up.... ALL OF THEM HAVED USED THE TEST. No one can prove that they didn't and they are the only one that they proved had it. If you don't believe that then you are crazy. This is the last time I am writing on here. Crystal, Dawn, and Nathan.... Marshall School District has taken the passion right out of your heart I am sure. But know one thing. There is nothing in this life time that will take the love of your family and friends. And the people on this that are writing informtion that is dishonest never really mattered. Your punishment is way above the mark and the way you have handled yourselves has been outstanding. Go to the Club and have a drink. For the record.... Thursday nights is Ladies night at Stonehege. We enjoy ourselves and welcome any guests from this comment section that would like to join us and show their faces. Probably would find that many of you are members just don't want to show it.
shorty'sdaughter,
I find it absolutely ridiculous that you find it necessary to bring Ms. Stanton's daughter into this situation. Are you so insecure that you find the need to prey upon the families of those who were WRONGLY accused in this situation?
Shorty's Daughter,
Just wondering who your child's 3rd grade teacher was? Did all of the teachers participated in the after school MAP activities?
Shorty's Daughter, I appreciate the insight you have offered from the standpoint of a parent of a child who was involved in the 'extra' help on the MAP testing. There is no way that the teachers didn't know what they were doing was wrong. There are meetings prior to MAP testing that stress what can and cannot be done. Having copies of the test is definitely against the rules. I believe that the fired teachers were good teachers in the classroom but they made a big mistake and they have been held accountable. I'm sure they would hold their students accountable for not following the rules. These teachers were given the same chance as the teacher who turned in evidence, but they chose to deny any wrongdoing. As a parent, I always told my children to tell the truth. It's much better to tell it at the start than to lie and have the truth come out later. I know some people will say that the truth did not come out, but there had to be something to all of this. The three teachers really do not have any right to be mad at the witnesses. If there were copies of tests and those were not brought out until a case was made, these three were not 'sold out'. The witnesses just chose not to lie. Should they have come forward three years ago, probably. But perhaps they made the choice not to rather than to deliberately get someone else in trouble. Once they were directly asked by the district, they had to do the right thing.
I have said nothing negative against Lorna Stanton as a principal and I have said nothing negative about her personally. For the most part she was a good principal. And she was well liked. Some of you wish to misinterpret my comments to suit your own opinions. I wish Mrs. Stanton success and a fresh start with her new position.
I have had about enough of this mess. I wish that others on this forum would move on and let it go!
I stand by what I said! Our board made the right decision!
The person that called the police about the robbery was an innocent bystander.
Mrs. Stanton may have been hired late spring 2005, but she was hired for the year 2005-2006. That is stated in the link to an article that someone posted on this forum. She was the Principal of Eastwood School that year. Each elementary school building had their own principal for the first time that year. Previous years one principal served two buildings.
As a parent, I should know whether or not my child stayed after school on a specific day of the week or not, Spring 2006. I had to sign a permission slip. They studied for the MAP Test and had snacks provided by their parents!
What do I have to do for you people to believe me! Let the students tell their side of the story? Absolutely not! Is honesty and integrity so hard for some people to grasp and understand that you do not know the truth when it hits you? That is because the truth hurts, doesn't it? And don't call their parents liars either unless you have proof yourself. I speak the truth! Just because several of you feel that my earliar statements are false doesn't mean that they are. My statements are not alleged ideas like many of you write about. After all, I was an Eastwood parent that year, were you?
Principals should know what goes on in their school building, besides Mrs. Stanton had a child at Eastwood that year so her child was probably there also!
As I said before, I do not gossip. I do not even own a personal cell phone. I don't play bridge or belong to any high brow social clubs or belong to any sports league. I have not and do not spread gossip! I don't have the time for that! People with nothing else to do make time for gossip and belittling others!
I said it before and I'll say it again! Let this sad story extinguish itself and move on to something positive and more productive! Lets take care of our kids!
You guys are ridiculous! Power, money and social status do not always hold the standard for proof of "What is Truth".
Shorty's Daughter,
Could it be possible that you are too close to the situation and therefore cannnot objectively evaluate the facts that came out during the hearings? Or were you absent from the hearings?
To quote an earlier post from you, "Just because these other teachers were honest and told the truth does not condemn the honest teachers to be punished. If you see a man robbing a store and you call to tell the police, should the police arrest you also? After all you did not rob the store!"
I ask you this, If the person who calls the police participated in the robbery and is holding the loot, are they innocent because they called the police?
The district witnesses admitted during the hearings that they did in fact violate the rules. For that, shouldn't they receive the same punishment as the other three who were fired without proof of wrongdoing?
I have read in several messages that there were some teachers/administrators who may have also been guilty of cheating but were not penalized for whatever reason. I must have missed it but can anyone tell me who these people are and why they were not penalized? Thanks.
The defense attorney noted while cross-examining each witness that it violates testing security protocol to withhold information from authorities about security breaches, suggesting that the district's witnesses were also guilty of infractions.
The teachers who testified they had knowledge that the accused teachers had unauthorized versions of the test were Angie Harvey, Bryanne Payne and Renee Barr.
Whether they will be disciplined in any way is unknown. Superintendent Craig Noah said he cannot comment on the question because it's a personnel matter.
Shorty'sdaughter,
Owl12345 does bring a good argument against you. You stated that you aren't a town gossiper, yet the information you are writing is totally incorrect. If you do your homework, unless that's consider cheating in this district, you'll find that Ms. Stanton was hired as an assistant principal at Eastwood Elemetary in the late spring of 2005, which means she would assume her role as assistant principal, not principal, of Eastwood School in the fall of 2005. You are accusing Ms. Stanton of knowing something that, unless you are her, you can't prove she knew. I'm not sure what her role was as assistant principal and you stated that the teachers asked students to stay after class. I'm sorry, but, I have a hard time believing you because you have given false information prior to this statement. If you want to be considered a reputable source in this matter please make sure you have your facts straight.
You said "As for being the town gossip, quite the opposite! I detest people who have to spend important time in their lives sticking their noses in other peoples business and doing nothing but talking negatively about other people when there is no fact what so ever to back it up!"
You are talking negatively about Ms. Stanton and you have no fact to back it up. I'm not related to Ms. Stanton, I'm not Ms. Stanton, nor do I even know Ms. Stanton very well, but I believe every individual is entitled to fairness in this and all matters. Please people, if you're going to quote things, make sure that they are accurate. Otherwise, this is just a big gossip smearing board that is of no value.
they should have scorched the earth at Eastwood. that school needs to start with a clean sheet.
As for "academic", we all make a mistake every now and then! My spelling error was an honest typo! Sorry!
Owl 12345,
Excuse me, I left out a detail. Mrs. Stanton came to Eastwood Fall 2005. The spring of 2005-2006 school year, 10-12 students were chosen from several class rooms to stay after school to study for the map test. You see, my child was one of those students. He or she was chosen by the teacher and had to be convinced to stay after school with many friends to participate in this little experiment because it would be "fun". Mrs. Stanton was questioned about this activity and her answer was inconclusive at that particular moment. Results showed later at our parent teacher conferences the next year that only a certain portion of the total kids at Eastwood showed inconsistencies in their test results. None of these kids as well as my child were one of them.
As for being the town gossip, quite the opposite! I detest people who have to spend important time in their lives sticking their noses in other peoples business and doing nothing but talking negatively about other people when there is no fact what so ever to back it up! So I would watch who you accuse of spreading rumors and sweep in front of your own door!
Most of the people who participate in this forum need to get a life and let this matter rest permanently so that we can concentrate on our kids!
I still believe that our school board made the right decision! I applaud their service!
My goodness the emotions run high. Just like any issue there are people on either side and when a decision is made, half will be happy and half will be upset.
I am surprised and frankly disappointed by the decision. Not because of the consequences for the 3 teachers but for the further negative consequences poor leadership decisions have made for our school district on a whole.
Some comments have posted that have suggested that the 3 teachers didn't get a "fair" trial. I was there both nights for every grueling second. I wouldn't go as saying the hearing was unfair but I would say that it was very lacking in legal procedure. Is that unfair? I don't know. But I do know it is certainly grounds for appeal. If someone is starting a pool for the results of the appeal put me down for 20 bucks for the teachers to win. I am good for it ;-).
Mr. Noah will hire 3 new teachers while the other 3 go to appeal. What if those teachers win their appeal? The school district could be paying 6 teachers to do the job of 3. That makes good sense and should be very helpful to the financial situation.
I believe XmarshallX asked if these teachers will still get their retirement pension. I don't think that these teacher's certifications are at stake here. Only their employment at Marshall Public Schools is in question. DESE has no authority to revoke their license on their own accord in this matter. So when they are eligible, they may receive a pension formulated to their contributions. Of course even though they have been fired they still could be hired by another school district if they retain their certification. I am sure there are other school districts around (not just Marshall) that desperately need positions filled on July 30th, 16 days before school starts. I bet school districts that are in such a desperate need don't ask many questions or can afford to make too many inquiries into those applicants past history. There is something to ponder!
The tailspin continues…. When do we crash?
barebackrider:
You should not worry about who I am first of all. Secondly, state your opinion and I will state mine. You people read way too much into who is behind the internet name. Good Luck to my friends two of the three.
shorty'sdaughter,
I find it awfully hard to believe that Ms. Stanton knew what was occurring during the MAP Test of '05, considering she was still the Director of Technology in Stockton, MO (which is 3 hours away from Marshall) during the MAP Tests in the Spring of '05. If I am correct in my assumption I believe that Ms. Jamie Goodman was the principal of Eastwood in the Spring of '05? It would also be quite interesting to know how you are so sure that Ms. Stanton knew what was occurring during the MAP Tests? Are you in fact Ms. Stanton herself, or simply a citizen of this fine community who desires to do what this town does best (create rumors that have no basis in any sort of fact)? Did you interview Ms. Stanton to discover these facts? I believe the only category your post would fall under would be that of the town gossip. If Marshall Public Schools had done such a wonderful job in the academic department,then why is it that you are unable to spell academic? Also, the teachers that came forward with information, the "accusers", did not simply come forward with a story, they came forward with personal copies of the MAP Test. They had been holding onto those personal copies for over two years! That is clearly in violation of the regulations surrounding the administration of the Missouri Assessment Program.
I would like to thank intrigued for being a voice of reason amidst the war-like, gossip-filled posts of many others on this wonderful site.
Here is a link to verify the information about when Ms. Stanton came to Marshall:
http://www.marshallnews.com/story/109293...
Hi
I wanted to comment on the teachers that where let go. It is very sad to see three wonderful people let go. But they taught the children about cheating. That is wrong. But I don't think that they recieved a fair trial from the school board. I grew up in this town and lived here for many years. It is very sad to see what happened to the schools here. None of the teachers that I had from Kindergarten too highschool still teach. I wonder what they think about all this mess. It is very sad for everyone.
So these teachers cheated and are terminated, poor babies. Now, let's look at the real victims here, the children. Coincidentally, no one has ever mentioned them, shame on you ALL. If high schoolers would have cheated on a test they would be suspended, how ironic.
Why so serious????
If you do not believe that proof of test violations exist, ask an Eastwood parent. They can tell you that this did happen. The hearing was totally fair and legal. As for the quality of these teachers abilities, I have absolutely no doubt that they are fine teachers! However, when a standardized test is administered there are very strict rules which are to be followed. These teachers obviously did not listen in their education classes in college when they discussed ethics and conduct. They either did not read the instructions or thought that it wasn't important. They broke a very important rule that they give often to their students! Standardized test are not to be tampered with. Teachers are expected be role models for their students by exhibiting positive behavior. You can ask any teacher! Why would someone risk their professional teaching career like this? This was a foolish mistake! Dr. Gordon is gone, thank goodness! Let this matter go so that Mr. Noah can help us rebuild our district's dignity and pride. As for Mrs. Stanton, yes she knew what was going on in 2005 and 2006. She was on a hot bed of trouble. She had a chance to get out and accepted another position elsewhere. Hopefully she learned something in Marshall that she will take with her to Warrensburg. Just because these other teachers were honest and told the truth does not condemn the honest teachers to be punished. If you see a man robbing a store and you call to tell the police, should the police arrest you also? After all you did not rob the store! The honest teachers have learned a lesson also, I hope! As for the rest of you using this sad situation to belittle and criticize our local school system once again - give it a rest! Marshall has an excellant school system with excellant well trained educators and staff. Our quality shines continuously through our student's achievements on the achedemic honor rolls, music, sports, FFA, and many other school activities and organizations throughout the community. Something must be right! If for some reason that you are not happy with your child's progress or achievement, ask youself this question. Did I/or do I as a parent do everything in my ability to fully support my child and or his/her classmates to aid their education and school experince. Our school board is comprised of several very fine and intelligent people. They have a very difficult job to do. This can apply to Mr. Barton as well because he seems to really get pounced upon in this forum. I am not sure that I would want to run for a position on the school board. But I will do everything in my power to help THEM! So quit criticizing every little thing. Better yet find something positive to do that will improve our community,your life or the life of someone else.
While were at it lets's get back to neighborhood elemenytary schools the way they were designed to be. Let's go back to all four schools being K-6th grade and quit bussing kids all over town. It's ridiculous and wastes fuel. Some of my most cherished memories as a child was being considered responsible enough to get to and from school on my own either by walking or bicycle.
what you give one all should get. if four more were involved then fire the four as well.
I have a few things to say about allthis.First of allmy daughter has learning disabilities and had Mrs.Plummer in 3rd grade and we could have never asked for a more professional teacher in the world. Breanna had congential heart defects at birth and eventually we found out she has cirrohsis of the liver and was born without a spleen and Mrs.Plummer always lookedout for the best interest of her wether it be academical or health.That woman always put the kinds first but in a very professional way. I want to say from the bottom of my heart THANK YOU.
I guess I'm just amazed at how all of this has been handled. You have three teachers who have denied wrong doing and they were fired. You have four teachers who have admitted to knowingly violating policy, yet the three who denied it were fired, the four who admitted doing things wrong are considered worthy enough to keep their jobs, unless they've chosen to retire. This just doesn't make sense to me. After listening to both sides at the "due process" hearing, I really felt that there was some miscommunication and that the teachers being accused of wrongdoing were actually doing what they thought was ok to do. Does anyone on the board, anyone on this blog or anyone in this town actually think that these people would jeopardize their jobs and more importantly their integrity for a test that doesn't affect their job status? I believe without any reservation that these three teachers were doing what they were hired to do, help children succeed. And no, I don't think they were teaching them to succeed by cheating, I think they were sincerely doing all they could to help these children do well in their education, even those with special needs. I know everyone of these teachers and I believe they have a passion for their job, but more than that, a passion for kids. That should have been given some consideration. The right resolution to this matter would be to set a policy that there is no question on as far as testing procedures are concerned. Address the questions that have been raised and let everyone learn from this. Instead of that, this board has put friends against friends, parents against teachers, a town against a school board, and the people suffering the most are the kids in these classrooms. I think the working environment for the school district must be pretty tough right now. Who knows what's next. Someone gets it out for someone else and no telling what that will cost us as taxpayers. It saddens me to know that my tax dollars are being used to persecute, not prosecute, people that I consider friends and that no one is benefiting from this fiasco. I think everyone could have learned a valuable lesson, kept their jobs and integrity but instead, we have a major problem on our hands that I don't think will soon be resolved.
Another topic to this chapter should be evaluated, and that is the MAP test itself. Now I am not here to point fingers at the teachers or the board, but had there not been SO much emphasis placed on these teachers to pass or score highly on the MAP exam, would this had even happened? The crux, I believe, is when did education become geared toward a single test or final exam? I remember when education was well rounded and all topics were equally weighted. Now it seems like we as a society skip over valuable education such as correct spelling, multiplication tables, writing complete sentences and being able to write and speak properly. Maybe it was the phonics. Maybe it was the new math. Maybe Washington put too much pressure on states to score higher on standardized tests, raise GPA's or increase graduation rates. As the pressure trickled down, states threatened funding to counties, counties threatened schools, schools threatened teachers, teachers are left wondering if their job is in danger if their students don't score as high as another teachers' students.
I would be happy to see education swing back in a direction that focuses more on students learning, rather than on how a teacher teaches. It doesn't matter how the teacher taught the lesson. It's what the student knows at the end of the lesson. Some may say that one is dependent on the other, and if you think that way, reflect on something that you were taught at a young age and you just didn't learn immediately. Perhaps tieing your shoe. If you didn't get it the first time and then something else or someone else taught you how to do it, it isn't the fault of the teacher. It's the fault of the lesson. Had the teacher tried to find other ways to make the light bulb come on, you would have gotten the shoe tieing lesson then....not later.
The point to that little story is, MAP and other state / federal tests impose pressure on states and schools to teach students certain subjects / topics. If the student doesn't learn it then and there, the teacher can not sacrifice the other students to find ways to teach the ones whose light bulb didn't come on as quickly. The student is not at fault for not understanding. The teacher is not at fault for not teaching. The LESSON is at fault for not fitting a mold so all students can understand it and the STATE is at fault for putting a time crunch emphasis on scores and bubbles rather than celebrating pure education. It's no wonder we are somewhere around 21st in the world when it comes to our students knowing science and math. It's because were not teaching them what they need to know. We are teaching them to fill in bubbles on an exam that is irrelevant. It's unfair, and the system should be readjusted. I will now get off my soap box and remove the timber from my eye. Thank you.
Several people have asked whether the teachers who testified at the hearing and who admitted knowledge of or possession of unauthorized copies of MAP tests would themselves be disciplined for violating testing security protocols.
Superintendent Craig Noah said today he cannot comment on the question because it relates to personnel matters.
Mr. Crump,
First you say the initial accusation was made via anonymous letter, then you say it wasn't one of the district's witnesses? Was it REALLY anonymous?
Some may say justice has been served but looks like "due process" has just begun!
I just wanted to add one more thing, after re reading ALL of these comments or responses to the entire drama,(because I do have the time on my hands)I was wondering why the principal was not on "trial" with the 3 other teachers. Does anyone know forsure?
Let me know if I am wrong, but I believe school law is much different. I don't think we can call this a fiasco if the board followed school law procedure. As far as Dr. Gordan's "fiasco", in MY opinion, that was his fault! Shame on him for lying to so many people.
Also, it bothers many, that people are still using the term "accusers" when referring to the teachers who testifed against the 3 "accused". They were not the ones who opened this can of worms. They basically got caught in the middle of it. Why do we call them "accusers" when it was the board and administration that had them testify?
I normally don't get into these blogs, but this one...I can't pass on. So, I guess I will temporarily lower myself to some peoples standards and comment on a few of these comments.
I grew up in Marshall, and very greatful I got out! I have read the other comments and it is so very disappointing to see that the town has not changed. Marshall in a whole should be ashamed. It is sad to see that the town is still full of so much DRAMA, and so many people "thinking" they know everything about everyone elses business. This is not just a typical rumor situation, this situation involves peoples careers, and family.
One of the things that infuriates me is that one resigned and found employment else where. Why is there not going to be a mark on their records?? Oh yeah, because they resigned like the board requested. If all accused are guilty, then this person would be too. Does another school deserve that? NO! It seems that the ones fighting for their rights are they ones paying, while some get to continue on with their careers.
Some of you are so quick to "follow" the board or rumors to make "your" decision on who is guilty. My question to you is; "Have you had proof in your "own" hands, and read it with your "own" eyes that "proves" they are guilty?" Didn't think so. So, why are you saying they are guilty?? Because the School Board, your friend, or your neighbor believes they are? These teachers careers should not be taken because someone "thinks" they are guilty, or just doesn't like the person for whatever the reason. It would make no sense that these teachers would put their careers on the line after all of their hard work and dedication.
Some people that think these teachers are a bad influence because they are ACCUSED of cheating need to worry about what all of this is doing to the children. Children listen, and all of the "gossip" and "drama" is what is affecting them. This is an adult situation, that they should not even be exposed to. They are naturally going to believe what mom and dad are saying. If and when this is overturned, are all of these parents going to go back and talk to their children and explain that someone passed judgement without proof??
What is all of this..."I was sitting in row..etc., who cares where you were sitting!!?? Did your choice of seating reflect the decision made? Doubt that. So why would anyone care who was sitting where? Why would any of you care how long it takes them to get back to their classrooms to clean them out? If you are not going to be their replacement, does this actually concern you? NO. This is the problem in that town (like a lot of small towns), everyone is worried about everyone else and not themselves...you are not children, grow up and leave the world of gossip and drama! Some of the comments that have been made on here make you no better than the accused "if" they are guilty.
I can't say that anyone is guilty or not, I have not seen actual proof for myself. I just that it sad that so many are quick to pass judgement.
I wish these teachers all of the luck in the world on getting their jobs back and getting back to what is important, the students.
Yes, these teachers WILL get their retirement for years of service. If they get jobs in other districts it will only add to their retirement.
If DESE chooses to do so, they could loose their teaching certificates.
I was wondering if anybody knows if these teachers will still get their retirement/pension?
Will their teaching license be revoked?
Odette,
You should have seen how this board handled firing our superintendent! Same fiasco. I appreciate your insightful opinion. I hope several in this town will experience some growth this year. Growth that begins with not trying to hurt anyone else.
As a retired non-Marshall educator-administrator I feel that the right thing was done. I do not beleive the situation was conducted in a correct manner. As many of you know it's hard to keep people from talking in a small town especially when people have known each other and their families for years. Small town living at its best!
My daughter knew of these 3 teachers and brought this story to me. I have followed it and I am amazed how people have taken this as a personal blow. If you would of read about this issue happening in Lee Summit would you believe it to be unfair? NO because the majority of the people would not have known EVERYTHING about these 3 teachers. I realize it is hard when you make social connections, go to HS together, or if the teacher is your neighbor.
Bottom line people... they were caught cheating on a very important assessment tool that every teacher who administers the MAP test is aware of proper procedures. There is NO bending the rules on testing procedures!
Instead of the board spending so much time on their so-called trial someone should of been looking into what the counselor (Kleinschmidt) was doing during testing and the Principal (Stanton). It would not surprise me from my experience if the 2 above had not known about this cheating in previous years. These people play a big part during testing. I like many feel that the principal only received a slap on the hand and now is preparing for a new year, new job, with a paycheck every month while three of her teachers are looking at the unemployment line and a future of shame in a small town where many things are hard to forget. Many neighboring districts will know about this too and future jobs may be scarce.
This situation should not of been made a public spectacle and it should of been taken care of in May or early June. That is the only fault I find with the board.
These teachers will have to adjust their lives in many ways and learn from their past mistakes. Hopefully it will be a year of personal growth, reflection, and they will see how IMPORTANT it is to be a teacher-role model while in the classroom also outside of it.
Curiousintown,
While there is much I do not agree with, I think it is important to remember that the teachers requested this hearing. In essence, it became a public spectacle at their request.
Regardless, I agree with you...conspiracy makes good conversation--and gossip. Too bad people thrive on that. However, this isn't just Marshall. For the longest time, if someone on the Sweet Springs city council belched, somebody was commenting on what they had for supper that night.
It's demographics, consensus, populus, and human nature. We don't hear a lot out of Malta Bend, Mt. Leonard, or Napton unless someone gets a wild hair and shoots their TV. But Marshall, Slater, and Sweet Springs are, more or less, more densely populated and have more organizations with more involvement that is, eventually, going to lead to negative interaction amongst the parties involved. So...more opportunities for these things to be reported.
I think it's also important to remember that there is a certain unavoidable risk in serving the public, whether it be in politics or teaching in a public school. That danger is this: there may well be multitudes of people supporting that choice and the person filling that position, but it is naive to believe that *everyone* supports that. There will always be those in opposition.
curiousintown,
when i first moved to marshall i would be shocked at some of the viciousness towards certain people. what i have found is that the people who have grown up in this town together tend to be correct in their assessments of each others characters. having said that i will tell you i agree with everything else in your statement.
i would also like to remind everyone reading this that it is very important to continue to write/email your state representatives and express your opinions about NCLB. and please remember to vote if you do not like the job our school board is doing. every vote DOES count. and some of you that are not personally involved with this...you really have to let high school go! try yoga or something...let that anger/hate go!
I am sorry to see this decision by the school board. I was hoping that some middle ground could be reached that did not involve the termination of the teaching contracts. Not only does it make it difficult for the school district to find teachers at this point in the year, but I think this decision will just add to the animosity already rampant towards the so-called "accusers." My gut feeling is that the "accused" will continue to pursue this (rightfully or not) and that the ongoing drama will color Marshall for the next school year (or more). That's a real shame, since the main focus should be the kids & their education, NOT the drama behind the teachers.
Has it crossed anyone's mind that perhaps the School Board did the right thing?
Has it yet occurred to the ones terminated that this is probably only the start of their woes?
I think perhaps the State guys just may investigate and jerk some teaching certificates.
What will the explanation be to the State guys as to why the cheating took place? Were the teachers ordered to do this, possibly because they were afraid of the person who gave the orders?
It appears to me if the teachers wish to keep teaching, they better come up with some kind of coercion angle on the part of their superior that condoned (ordered?) their actions.
Just a thought.
I am originally from a smaller town near the city, so many of you may just want to skip past my comment, because I am not from Marshall. Be that as it may, because I am from the outside looking in, I see a different side than some.
It seems to me that once the accusations were made against these 3 teachers, many of the people in town automatically decide these teachers were guilty. I see Marshall as a town filled with drama; this story just proves what I have been feeling all along. Everyone thinks that they know everyone and because of that once a thing is said about you it will never be forgotten. I feel sorry for these 3 teachers, whether they did or did not make a bad judgment calls, this will never be forgotten and I just feel that they will not ever be able to make it in this town again. 15 yrs from now the town will still talk about this (hopefully not on a daily basis) and it just is not right. This should have been handled in the privacy of an office as personnel matter; they should not have had to be on trial in front of this town. I do think that the public had the right to know, but most of you in Marshall want to know everything right now and that is how all of the rumors get started.
Even if the teachers did as the accuser said, they still have the right to be forgiven of their actions. I cannot think of one single person who has not made an error in judgment in any job! Maybe it was making a personal phone call at work, that is stealing time from your employer, maybe sneaking out to have a cigarette, that is stealing time, maybe making copies on the company copy machine...etc etc......enough said....These teachers are human and deserve the right to have another chance. I feel for these teachers of which I DO NOT know any of them, or the accuser, but this have been a ridiculous waste of time in my opinion for ALL involved, including the paper for having to cover it all! I guess however it does just add to my thoughts on the people in Marshall and how must of you thrive on the drama and it gives you all something to talk about.
By the way, had this information not come out to the public the way it had, these children would not think of these teachers in any different way. C'mon, we have ALL done something we regret, but it has not all been announced in the Democrat YET!
missy08,
As I understand it, the teachers can file the case in circuit court for review by a judge. In this process, the judge would more or less read the transcripts and determine whether or not due process was performed. I don't even think the teachers have to show up...just the attorney's.
intrigued,
You received a letter regarding this school board hearing? How in the world does anyone know who you are? I don't have a clue who is behind these names on here. I agree with you, if the person can't sign their name they shouldn't be putting out the smoke.
K Mullins-Lamb
intrigued,
i am confused. this was a school board hearing but i keep seeing references to an appeal and a court hearing. have there been legal charges filed? this can't automagically go to a court hearing and certainly not to an appellate court. i'm not trying to be difficult, i am truly curious.
Blue123, correction: I was on the 3rd row, my apologies. Don't want to make any mistake on where I was.
blue123,
what difference does it make where anyone was sitting. the fact that guffaw feels that there wasn't a fair trial is their opinion and they are entitled to that. i attended both nights of the meeting and i'm proud to say that i WAS on the second row. whether i was on the second row or the fifth row doesn't change the fact that there was not a fair hearing given to the three teachers. who in their right mind can say that the hearing was fair when the legal counsel prosecuting the three was also the same legal counsel telling the board president every move to make. there is nothing fair about that and as you're probably thinking, no, this was not a court trial. but, if these three appeal, i believe that an unbiased and unpartial court will listen to both sides and then over turn this kangaroo court decision. also, just a little food for thought for someone out there...i got the anonymus letter that was sent to me and trust me, i'll find out who sent it. i might not ever mention a word about it but at least you'll know that i know. an unsigned letter isn't worth the paper it's written on and as far as i'm concerned, neither is the writer.
I was wondering if anybody knows if these teachers will still get their retirement/pension?
former owl,
You said it all; you took the words right out of my mouth. None of us are perfect including the superintendent, school board, teachers, students, or the Marshall Community. The best we can do is always try to do the right thing. I do not personally know two of the three teachers and I am only an acquaintance of the third but I cannot believe these teachers chose this occupation without keep children at the top of their list. I have never been a teacher, nor would I make a good teacher, and I appreciate the tough jobs they do.
K Mullins-Lamb
I agree with barebackrider. Shouldn't the other teachers that admitted to wrong-doing also get some sort of punishment? They clearly bend the rules occassionally because they admitted it during the Hearing. I don't think I'd want these people teaching my child either.
You all need to get a life. Posting these negative posts is a waste of time, not to mention...just how negative you people are. No wonder why people move in and out of Marshall so quickly. I mean, you all act like you personally know these teachers. People who have dedicated their lives to kids. Yes, they made a bad choice. Like you all have not??????? You all have NEVER done anything wrong?????? You all that live in glass houses should not be throwing stones. Go be more productive to society. Go volunteer in a classroom and be positive!
blue123,
just wanted to comment on one more thing you said: I wonder if Carrie Hazell would agree that cheaters NEVER prosper...
Several times in the course of this whole mess, someone has stated "the board made a decision before the hearing". Well, of course they did. They asked for resignations, right? The teachers requested the hearing. It's time to move on....
I am on the side that had a credible and well-presented case, the side that didn't look foolish, the side that did not contradict themselves, the side that had an actual lawyer. As far as my physical location--are you trying to identify me so you can come over for a visit?
Were YOU at the hearings? What row were you in?
Guffaw...OBVIOUSLY, you are on the "other" side. This is the WRONG side to be on. Do you realize you are supporting people who believe that they can cheat and get away with it? They TRULY believe that they are "above" all this and didn't think they would EVER get in trouble. I just wonder if you sat on the second row at the trial. Just for the record...cheaters NEVER prosper!!!!!
I believe the Board made a very BAD decision in terminating the contracts. I attended both hearings and listened to both, the accusED and AccusING. I believe the Board made a decision long before the hearings, and that is why two of the Board Members were talking during the hearings to one of the accusing witnesses and laughing! I wouldn't worry too much if I were one of the accusED teachers, the transcripts will speak for themselves! I think the BOARD will regret their decision and the apeal will be in favor of the accusED! I question what will happen when they win the apeal? Will the teachers in their spots be moved?
It is sad that some feel it necessary that in order to look good they have to "manipulate" the testing proceedures by using unauthorized material........hhhhmmmm.....why not just teach and teach well!!!! If we all did that then we would not be inclined to resort to such tactics. We try to instill in our children that cheating, lying, stealing etc. is not the moral thing to do....so why would you do that??? Because it is
the easy way out???? I also wonder why the person who finally stepped up to turn this information over to appropriate personnell did not do this sooner? Does that mean that you at one time condoned the cheating??? Just curious!!
All I have to say is, Eastwood (Mr. Angelhow) should do a thorough inventory before these teachers are allowed to remove anything from their rooms. Don't get me wrong, I am not accusing them of stealing anything, I just wouldn't want the school or those teachers to get into another issue their. It would be safe and good for both parties...
So is the School District going to give the three teachers a timeline to get out of their rooms? I for see those teachers TAKING THEIR HAPPY TIME to get out....sure isn't fair for the others that will replace them!!!!
golfer...your opinion of the proceedings is just that...unless maybe you have facts that are unknown to others.
golfer - I'm just curious about how you know the 3 teachers did not get a fair trial? What do you know that many of us don't? What about the evidence turned over by their fellow teacher?
It is a sad day in Marshall. These three individuals are great teachers, parents, community members, and friends. They deserved a fair trial and they did not get it. I beleive that the board made up their mind long before the trial. I refuse to allow any of those other teachers to ever have the opportunity to teach my children. I would rather take them to Hardeman. I am not originally from Marshall but the solution to this problem is VOTE THE SCHOOL BOARD OUT. They are not worth the time they are wasting. They are not doing what the school district needs.
I hope the school district and school board has set aside plenty of money to continue to fight the battle that is to come. It is going to be so embarrassing and an even worse mess when the teachers win the apeal and all the other cases that are about to be filed.
This situation is sickening and is such a disgrace. It just goes to show that you can have a genious for an attorney that is up against a moron and it doesn't matter. This also goes to show that the reason there was little questioning by the prosecution at the trial was because the board had already made it known that they had made thir decision. Disgrace! Good Luck MR. Noah. You have board that clearly doesn't listen to facts and goes strictly on opinion.
my heart goes out to all three of these teachers. i have enjoyed the fact my job has brought me into contact with all three of these people, and I will miss them, as will the students.
I believe the Board made a wise decision in terminating the 3 contracts of the teachers in question. However, who of you out there wants the other guilty teacher, the one who got off scott-free, teaching any of their children or grand children just because she agreed to turn over evidence? Not me! That doesn't cleanse her from wrong-doing! She plea-bargains and gets to further influence our children? For that matter why were the rest of those at Eastwood who admitted wrong-doing just disciplined? They too will be influencing our children on a daily basis!