[Masthead] Partly Cloudy ~ 78°F  
High: 81°F ~ Low: 65°F
Friday, Sep. 19, 2014

Speak Out May 8 through May 23, 2008

Friday, May 9, 2008

The Marshall Democrat-News welcomes views or questions on any issue. We hope you'll express yourself freely and responsibly. We reserve the right to exclude entries that we deem disrespectful, threatening, obscene or in other ways objectionable.

Past Speak Out conversations


Comments
Note: The nature of the Internet makes it impractical for our staff to review every comment. If you feel that a comment is offensive, please Login or Create an account first, and then you will be able to flag a comment as objectionable. Please also note that those who post comments on marshallnews.com may do so using a screen name, which may or may not reflect a website user's actual name. Readers should be careful not to assign comments to real people who may have names similar to screen names. Refrain from obscenity in your comments, and to keep discussions civil, don't say anything in a way your grandmother would be ashamed to read.

I hope it storms!

-- Posted by mercy5634 on Mon, May 26, 2008, at 12:13 AM

Actually Donnie and Marie's song was paper roses.

-- Posted by mid_mo on Fri, May 23, 2008, at 10:42 PM

Smokin' Cheetah, Colt 45 coffee came into existence on the cattle drives in the 1800's. It seems that the cowboys wanted stronger coffee to help them make it riding herd through the night. You knew the coffee was strong enough when the camp cook accidentally dropped his gun in the coffee pot and it floated to the surface.

-- Posted by John Q. on Fri, May 23, 2008, at 10:24 PM

Happy Memorial Day, everyone! Have a safe holiday! Enjoy the ambience!

-- Posted by Green Eyes on Fri, May 23, 2008, at 4:06 PM

For one who hates all things Marshall and Missouri, you're sure a frequent flyer here!?!?!

-- Posted by aneditor on Fri, May 23, 2008, at 2:58 PM

see what i am talking about?

-- Posted by once_removed on Fri, May 23, 2008, at 2:37 PM

Seriously "pumpkin." His/her username "purpleroses" was the best you could do, spelling/grammar mistake-wise in that post?

I can't believe I'm about to say this but GET OVER IT. It's a username. He could go by crustydogturd and it'd be fine. Although that wouldn't pay homage to Donnie and Marie.

-- Posted by aneditor on Fri, May 23, 2008, at 2:27 PM

lets see some more negativity.Pointing out spelling and grammar errors are exactly what we ex-miserians have come to expect from the people of marshall.

-- Posted by once_removed on Fri, May 23, 2008, at 1:50 PM

lets see some more negativity.Pointing out spelling and grammar errors are exactly what we ex-miserians have come to expect from the people of marshall.

-- Posted by once_removed on Fri, May 23, 2008, at 1:50 PM

I hate to bring up the spelling errors......but purpleroses, sure looks like you didn't learn any spelling and grammar from her.

-- Posted by pumpkin08 on Fri, May 23, 2008, at 1:17 PM

I for most thank lorna from eastwood who gave me hope here in the school district she is the only principal in the distict who fought so hrd to here and listen to the kids she didnt not suspend kids from school like the rest have here she listened to the kids she choose another alternative to help kids she is not only a good person but patient one too lorna good luck in your next job

-- Posted by purpleroses on Fri, May 23, 2008, at 1:06 PM

Nana... I don't know what post of mine you're talking about... but if it's from me, I'd imagine it contained some level of sarcasm!

But I think our opinions are the same on this issue.

-- Posted by aneditor on Fri, May 23, 2008, at 10:00 AM

I hope the other district is aware of her superb leadership and "watches her" like a hawk. I wonder if her clique will surface at the new district??? hmmm????

I don't mean she is a bad person. I mean that she made poor judgement in her leadership skills and should have a big old red flag next to her name since she is allowed to continue her career in education/leadership.

-- Posted by mid_mo on Fri, May 23, 2008, at 9:10 AM

Since this mess has come about due to the Bush Administration's No Child's Behind Left program it seems apparent that Bush Administration tactics should have been used to get to the bottom of it. As soon as there was a suspicion that this vile behavior might be going on every teacher, and administrator at Eastwood School that was suspected of wrong doing should have been snatched and isolated. As there was obviously potential ongoing danger to the children, and chances were that other criminal educators were still lurking among the children they all should have been water boarded until they confessed their crimes, and gave up names of others who were involved (just for the children's safety mind you). Undoubtedly more of these heinous criminals would have been exposed. Certainly it would have led to a cell at Northwest. More waterboarding, the cowardly criminals there would have informed on those at Benton School, and on and on. Of course in time there would not have been space in town to incarcerate them all. Extraordinary rendition of the worst offenders to Sweet Springs, or perhaps Slater would have made room. After all everyone knows how the powers that be in Sweet Springs like a good scrap, and what Marshall person would want be at the mercy of the Slaterites? Opportunity lost? Maybe there is still time if we can just get past those pesky documents that our founding fathers created, we can have an education system in this nation that will be a fitting tribute to the hard work of the Bush Administration.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, May 23, 2008, at 12:42 AM

The blood lust is rampant in the comment section under The Four Teachers Asked To Resign column. I could not resist the impulse to write a little satirical bit in that comment section. I invite my friends to take a look at it with the hope you will get a chuckle out of it.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, May 23, 2008, at 12:17 AM

If these allegations turn out to be true. I'm not so sure what part of this troubles me the most.

The students who were practically given the answers beforehand and still could not get their scores up or the teachers who can't even cheat well enough to get student's scores up?

Maybe both. Time to thin the herd?

-- Posted by Cheese on Fri, May 23, 2008, at 12:09 AM

Oops! That last comment was for Texas Friend! I'm watching a movie and typing at the same time!

-- Posted by oneofmany on Thu, May 22, 2008, at 7:32 PM

I chuckled at your comment about hearing a Missouri teacher had given out answers to a test! Really!? I thought you all had more to do in Texas! PLEASE!!!! After all, it is a beloved Texan, George W., who gave us the requirements that mandated our test. I heard he pretty much ruined Texas education when he tried out this plan there! Texas educators were not too fond of it then. Nationwide teachers (and students) hate it now! It certainly is not any indication of the wonderful things that go on in our classrooms today. Wake up, people!

-- Posted by oneofmany on Thu, May 22, 2008, at 7:26 PM

Now we just started getting along... why do you want to go back to what we were before?

Besides, REFRESH before you post. I corrected it a few minutes later, and 16 minutes before you did.

Don't make me turn this car around.

-- Posted by aneditor on Thu, May 22, 2008, at 4:06 PM

I mean absurd. Good Lord. Time to go home.

-- Posted by aneditor on Thu, May 22, 2008, at 3:43 PM

See, Nana, I don't think I'd let a little thing like parliamentary procedure get in my way if I had a question as to how the school district was conducting businesses -- especially something of this magnitude.

There's tons of info out there for people who want to take the time learn... Google has been utilized for much more obsurd things than how to address a school board!

-- Posted by aneditor on Thu, May 22, 2008, at 3:36 PM

Nanadot: Had someone wanted to be added to the agenda, then they could have done so. Since you are familiar with the Roberts Rules of Order, I assume you would have known this. I also seem to recall at the meeting I attended that after the Board took up what they called the "Consent Agenda", they then approved the "Regular Agenda" for the rest of the meeting. I am only guessing, but if someone had wanted to make comments or ask questions, then I suppose that someone could have asked to be added to that part of the agenda. I was there and there was no such effort. I also know that some of the Board members are very accessible outside of the meetings as I have spoken with several of them to get answers to questions I may have. Sometimes they were able to answer my questions and sometimes they were not. I at least made the effort. Can you say the same thing? Please do not take this as patronizing. I am just tired of people complaining about the new ambulance building, the new 911 building site, the schools, etc. on this forum but seemingly doing nothing constructive. If you really want things to improve, or at least be heard, you just have to get off your arse.

-- Posted by OldOwl on Thu, May 22, 2008, at 3:08 PM

Im sure that there is alot of people who are glad you are gone Once_removed.

-- Posted by kt_01 on Thu, May 22, 2008, at 2:51 PM

Missouri loves company.

-- Posted by aneditor on Thu, May 22, 2008, at 2:07 PM

I am so glad i don't live in misery anymore,and yes it is spelled right.

-- Posted by once_removed on Thu, May 22, 2008, at 2:06 PM

Cheetah: You and I AGREE on something? Brrrr. Bundle up if you're in hell right now!

I will be at ya'll's coffee drinking bash in spirit. Coffee and amaretto ... try it. You'll like it. It's good on a lot of levels (the least of which is that it wakes you up) and how I choose to start my days when I'm in Key West!

RUBY: Saying you didn't have to go to the board meeting because what you know has already been discussed concerns me. Going to these meetings isn't ONLY to hear information -- although that should be considered a perk. It also gives you -- the taxpayer -- an opportunity to voice your opinion on what's going on. Again, that's a lot easier done on an anonymous blog under a moniker that hides your identity... I get that. My name isn't really aneditor (although I am an editor)....

But make sure what you "know" is factual, not opinion, and certainly not simply rumor mill BS before you crucify someone.

That said, Mr. Crump... when is the district going to come off the names of those its asked to resign? I know it's considered personnel issue at this point so they can sit on it a while, but eventually, they'll have to give up names.

-- Posted by aneditor on Thu, May 22, 2008, at 1:59 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
I think you mostly answered your own question. You're right that the district does not have to divulge names while a personnel matter remains unresolved, but as soon as the matter is resolved the district has 72 hours to release the name and any action taken and how the board voted. It's hard to say when that will happen exactly, because it depends on how the employees respond to the district's actions, etc.

Nanadot: I agree that the school board meeting was conducted based upon a written agenda. That is the way meetings are supposed to be handled. There was nothing about that agenda that prevented anyone from asking questions or commenting. The meeting was not abruptly ended. The Board discussed all of the items on the agenda and having done so, adjourned. Again, that is the way things are supposed to be handled. I do recall one individual who wanted to make comments after the meeting was adjourned, but by the time that person spoke up, the meeting was over and everyone was walking out. I guess I am missing your point and it might just be me that is to blame.

-- Posted by OldOwl on Thu, May 22, 2008, at 1:19 PM

Yes, get togethers not and then are encouraged and a blessing to teachers. However weekly parties I frown upon. Some believe it some may not, teachers and other members of the community are held to certain standards when they work with children. I'm glad that my children will not be exposed to teachers and administrators who publicly brag about their weekend parties. Whether I was there or not, this comes straight from the horses' mouth!

I didn't have to go to the board meeting. What I know has already been discussed. Those of us who have expreienced this on a daily basis know what really went on, so do those who are involved. Do these teachers really want to push the issue for a public "trial" like with Dr. Gordon?

-- Posted by rubyred on Thu, May 22, 2008, at 12:45 PM

Ditto.

-- Posted by "When the Music Plays..." on Thu, May 22, 2008, at 12:18 PM

Aneditor...did not mean to suggest that you could not offer an opinion without being here. Having formerly lived in Texas, I have made the long, long drive many times in the past. You did understand and state my position perfectly. I, for one, did attend the meeting, but was disappointed to see only 1 other present who was not a school district employees who had to be there and a former board member. Not sure why he was there! This is just like the person who is complaining in this forum about parking near the license bureau. If you are serious about your complaint, take it to someone who can do something about it. Otherwise, like the school issues, it is just complaining for the sake of complaining.

-- Posted by OldOwl on Thu, May 22, 2008, at 11:42 AM

Smokin' Cheetah, have you ever tried Colt 45 coffee? Not even Nana Dot drinks this stuff.

I'll be out of the state this holiday to do some snake dancing at Harris Break.

Anyone want to go?

-- Posted by John Q. on Thu, May 22, 2008, at 11:38 AM

Too far for me to drive, I'm afraid, Owl. I do trust you're OK with those of us not in Missouri offering up opinions on the topic at hand. Being from there originally, having an aunt who taught many of your kids to read in the first grade, retired and is now teaching again because she missed it (go figure) I find this topic interesting and have been equally as fascinated by some opinions offered up here.

I completely understand where you're going with your question though. If I was in Marshall, had a kid in its school system and had the nads to blog about how screwed up I thought the situation was, I'd have gone in person to the meeting with the nads to voice my concerns. In the business I'm in, however, I can tell you plenty of people will ***** anonymously. Few will bring a set of balls to a meeting and go public with their complaints.

-- Posted by aneditor on Thu, May 22, 2008, at 11:28 AM

Aside from an observation from Mrs. Fairchild that "very few" members of the public were present at the last School Board meeting, no one else has responded to my question. I will ask again: How many of you who have offered "observations" of the Eastwood matter on this forum attended the last School Board meeting and shared any of your "observations" with the Board? ANYONE?

-- Posted by OldOwl on Thu, May 22, 2008, at 11:16 AM

Not too many social events -- nor blogs, for that matter -- don't include a bit of ******** and moaning.

-- Posted by aneditor on Thu, May 22, 2008, at 10:56 AM

Most employers encourage their staff to socialize outside of the workplace... from time to time. We are a small town. What these teachers do outside of the school should not be in question. UNLESS, the plotting to CHEAT was involved. Ruby, if you were not personally there to wittness the gripe session then all you are doing is promoting "He said, She said", nonsense.

-- Posted by nomad on Thu, May 22, 2008, at 10:53 AM

Smokin Cheetah and NanaDot I am sorry I am late getting back to you. Sometimes perfectly useful words go out fashion, much like good ideas, which have been out of fashion for some time in Washington. Hopefully good ideas will be back in fashion come next spring. I like the word bloviate so perhaps I am on a minor mission to make it once again fashionable. I think it is one of those words whose sound suggests the sense of it,(gulp, do I dare say it) an onomatopoeia. I think many people would take offense at being accused of bloviating even if they did not know exactly what it meant. I must say that I do not mind offending bigots, they deserve castigation. I guess I just wanted to give em a double whammy with the power of the meaning of the word embellished by its sound. So, I make no promises as to giving consideration to whether or not I use a word that pops in my head when thoughts are flowing. On the other hand I am vexed that I misspelled Philadelphia in the same posting. Sorry.

By the way, it would be superb to have coffee and conversation with you guys. Especially if it was Irish coffee. Who knows, with that Irish inspiration we might plot a little treason.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, May 22, 2008, at 12:07 AM

Someone from texas should not speak bad about mo teachers. We may have had a cheating teacher,but texas gave the world polgimast camps,Dr. Phil,and god only knows what else that is bad for the world. Oh and bush. (yeah i know i spelled polgimast wrong too for any spelling nazis)

-- Posted by kt_01 on Wed, May 21, 2008, at 11:58 PM

Well, even down here in Texas we have heard about a Missouri teacher in the area that has been giving answers to her students for awhile now. And the administration knows about it. This adds yet another nail in the coffin regarding the poor education American students recieve. Shame on you.

-- Posted by Texas Friend on Wed, May 21, 2008, at 10:57 PM

Rubyred, many in the Marshall Public School District feel quite differently about the loss of such a quality administrator to Warrensburg. The adminisrator you referred to in your post is known throughout the district by teachers and fellow administrators as one who cares more about the needs of the children of the district than about the politics involved in small-town school systems. At times, that administrator has even purchased lunches for children whose accounts were overdrawn.

-- Posted by Owl12345 on Wed, May 21, 2008, at 7:53 PM

Mr. Rice is spot-on, as usual...although my golf game is more cussedness, tragedy and melodrama than anything else! Still fun, though!

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, May 21, 2008, at 7:31 PM

Quote of the day:

"Golf is twenty percent mechanics and technique. The other eighty percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness, and conversation." --Grantland Rice

(Came across that while working on our special section on golf. Kind of reminds me of Speak Out, too.)

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Wed, May 21, 2008, at 7:12 PM

Anybody we know?

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Wed, May 21, 2008, at 7:03 PM

While you're celebrating, Warrensburg has a new principal in their district!

-- Posted by rubyred on Wed, May 21, 2008, at 6:42 PM

Cheetah - next time you're looking for a word, try dictionary.com. It does have the word bloviate, much to my surprise since Random House doesn't. Under the heading of useless but interesting information, dictionary.com credits President Warren G. Harding with popularizing the word.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, May 21, 2008, at 5:20 PM

Someone asked how many concerned citizens showed up at Marshall's school board meeting last night. I was not there, but have heard on good authority that the answer is "at best, few."

BTW, I'd like to join the crowd for the upcoming festivities, if I may - and I'm with NanaDot - gotta be coffee on the strong side. :)

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, May 21, 2008, at 5:13 PM

Parking at the license bureau is tough enough. Why is the U-Haul rental business downtown allowed to park their rentals in parking spaces that could be used by people trying to do business?

-- Posted by Muffin on Wed, May 21, 2008, at 1:23 PM

Count me in!

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Wed, May 21, 2008, at 12:51 PM

WooHOO- School is out!

-- Posted by nomad on Wed, May 21, 2008, at 11:21 AM

oops guess i should have used spell check

-- Posted by once_removed on Wed, May 21, 2008, at 9:09 AM

Yesterday was a lively day on the Speak Out forum and on the forums associated with stories about school testing irregularities. It's good to see people who care about issues talking them through. It's not so good to see people attacking each other in the process.

We deleted a number of comments yesterday. As is generally the case, comments that included blatant insults and/or vulgar or obscene language were removed.

Have fun. Debate hard. But let's play fair.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Wed, May 21, 2008, at 8:47 AM

Just wondering how many of you attended last nights School Board Meeting to voice your concerns on the Eastwood issue, live and in person, to those who may be able to address those concerns?

-- Posted by OldOwl on Wed, May 21, 2008, at 8:46 AM

Weldon, just FYI, Marshall Public Schools can not just do away with standardized testing. The MAP is a state requirement.

-- Posted by me1234 on Wed, May 21, 2008, at 7:58 AM

Now is the time when redneck racists and bloviating bigots poke their heads up out of the mud, and begin to sling it. It is going to be interesting to find out just how pervasive is the dark underbelly of America. Obama has severed his ties with Reverend Wright. John McCain has done no such thing with Hagee and others of that ilk. That makes him a panderer for votes, or a hypocrite, or most likely both.

I have nothing to say to those whose psyche's dwell in the most abysmal pits of the American zeitgist. However, to those of you who have a tendency to believe what you hear, who are a little short on show me skepticism please do not buy this pig in a poke of prejudice. There is an internet source that seperates truth from lies. It is politifact.com. It is a joint venture of The Congressional Quarterly, and the Philedelphia Inquirer. When you hear or see a derogatory comment regarding one of the candidates, be it McCain or Obama do not give it any credibility until you check it out. You owe it to yourself to not be taken in by malicious gossip, whether it comes to you from the gossip next door, from sniping e mails, or from a blog comment. Be proud to be an informed American, one who has taken the time and effort to vote intelligently so that those that are elected will strive to make America the best it can be. Do it now, the lives you save may include your own.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, May 20, 2008, at 11:14 PM

Amen, once_removed!

-- Posted by Green Eyes on Tue, May 20, 2008, at 11:04 PM

aneditor....."If they can't grasp at least the basics, they're not ready to progress to the next level, no? Or do you prefer to set the bar low enough so they can hit it?"

I believe that Carlos Mencia did a little bit about lowering the standards in schools. He talked about how kids and parents wanted standards lowered because of things like ADD....ADHD.... and being different races. What you said reminded me of that. Just thought I would put that out there

-- Posted by AnnaBell on Tue, May 20, 2008, at 10:15 PM

i am usually not very political,but i have to say that with the cannidates we have to choose from it gives me one more reason not to vote.If it were up to me i would write in sharon osbourne.She is more qualified after all these years of dealing with ozzy.

-- Posted by once_removed on Tue, May 20, 2008, at 6:00 PM

"associate of John McCain" is diffent than Life Long Mentor as wright and obama

-- Posted by bc65340 on Tue, May 20, 2008, at 5:27 PM

Rev. John Hagee (WHITE IDIOT), associate of John McCain, refers to the Catholic Church as the Great ***** and says Hurricane Katrina was punishment for New Orleans because of its acceptance of gays and lesbians. If we are being asked to judge Obama by his most controversial associate (i.e Rev. Wright) then why not judge McCain by his (i.e Rev. Hagee)?

-- Posted by OldOwl on Tue, May 20, 2008, at 5:00 PM

Barrack says the GOP needs to lay off his wife? Does Michelle need her teddy bear?

-- Posted by aen2012 on Tue, May 20, 2008, at 4:58 PM

Rev. Jeremiah Wright (BLACK EXTREMIST)longtime pastor and friend of Obama, what really is his "CHANGE".. He is trying to take away YOUR 2nd Amendment. If he does then whats NEXT!!!???

-- Posted by bc65340 on Tue, May 20, 2008, at 4:30 PM

Hillary Clinton made a speech yesterday in Kentucky wherein she again claimed to be the strongest candidate in the Democratic race. In support of her claim, she relied upon a report from none other than Turd Blossom (aka Karl Rove)! How bad have things gotten in the Clinton camp where she now has to rely upon Karl Rove, of all people, to support her candidacy? If we wait long enough, maybe she will get the endorsement of George W. Bush, and then brag about it! For shame!

-- Posted by OldOwl on Tue, May 20, 2008, at 4:22 PM

Barack Hussien Obama!!! will America wake up and see what a FAKE HE IS

-- Posted by bc65340 on Tue, May 20, 2008, at 3:59 PM

this is so sad.i was once a resident of marshall and to see this reminds me of why i and so many others have left.

I remember quit well those test.I was just one of many(if not all) that hated those test.For me it was hell.I am sure most of the kids forced to take them feel the same way.

I say the school district should just forget any standardized test.They do not show an accurant account of how the student is progressing.If these test did the job they were supose to do every student that has ever graced the halls of marshall public schools would be an acedemic all star.

To argue about cheating is silly and childish.Let the administrators do their jobs and get to the bottom of things instead of just pointing fingers.

the hated one

weldon

-- Posted by once_removed on Tue, May 20, 2008, at 3:02 PM

Fingers pointing, Fingers flicking.... Again, good thing these horrible comments are made by annonymous idiots! GET A GRIP!

-- Posted by nomad on Tue, May 20, 2008, at 2:39 PM

This BLOG is more entertaining than the Sunday comics

-- Posted by Maynard G Krebbs on Tue, May 20, 2008, at 2:32 PM

Why were posts removed about wanting to see individual teacher scores and my post stating that they do exist? None of those posts were blaming anyone or offensive.

-- Posted by me1234 on Tue, May 20, 2008, at 1:21 PM

as i see it. You said in theese here parts. Thats not a sentence. its hillbilly slang. If your going to correct and stick up for the others u may want to check your grammer also. NO one is amune to spelling and gramar errors.

-- Posted by kt_01 on Tue, May 20, 2008, at 12:27 PM

o my god i cant speel. ges i need a dicktionari.

-- Posted by kt_01 on Tue, May 20, 2008, at 12:04 PM

jj just when I think I have had about all of you I can take you go and post one of the best posts I have ever seen on this blog.

Very well said.

"standardized test are good for those smart kids that dont always have the best study habits! me personally i used to love it when my test scores and act scores were much higher then the straight A students.... or when girls would cry because they made thier first B and the parents would get the grade changed...i mean to much is made of grades and all that shows is a small part of whats going on..... i hope my kids have full social lifes, and do many activities, and if they make B's doint so...so be it!.......so what u study half your life to make A's! that doesnt make u sucessful and happy! having fun and making B's are for the most part the people with the most balanced lives! its all about moderation..........yes even studying"

-- Posted by Gal66 on Tue, May 20, 2008, at 7:30 AM

Salineite cant seem to help the spelling corrections in theese posts can it. Only person riding the short bus in here is you. Yes i spelled two words wrong. Ever use a laptop saline-tight. Keys are very small. mistakes happen. now we know what you will always take notice of dont we.How sad your life, is filled with such a void and you feel you must be better than us all because you dont make spelling mistakes and you feel the need to judge others on their mistakes. Do you get a kick out of random acts of spelling corrections? is this where all your self worth lies?

-- Posted by kt_01 on Mon, May 19, 2008, at 9:41 PM

I dont see that standardized test work. Personally as a kid I could take these test and do exceptionally well, however forget about all I learned later, yet my cousin couldnt pass a test to save her soul-and knew the information. All these test do is stress the kid, teacher, the system. They need to base it off of the homework completed. Its usually more honest. Please excuse me if I have made any spelling errors.

-- Posted by landreth on Mon, May 19, 2008, at 7:30 PM

You didn't offend Mercy... well, you didn't offend me, anyway.

I was simply asking how you'd determine whether or not a student was prepared to progress to the next grade if you didn't give them tests on the material they should have mastered in the one they'd just completed.

We all take the same drivers' test, for example. Those who get the number correct that's been determined to be "passing" get a license and hit the roads. Look how that turns out. Would there be less accidents, fatalities, et al if the score had to be higher to pass? That's what I mean by "set the bar low enough and they'll hit it." Doing so doesn't do anyone any good.

I'd bet you'd be surprised at how little we expect out of kids to allow them to go to the next grade. That they need to cheat -- or that their teachers and principals (who you pay to do a job, by the way) believe they need to cheat -- to do so ought to scare the hell out of all of us.

-- Posted by aneditor on Mon, May 19, 2008, at 6:01 PM

Ugh. I'm leaving for the night too. First though, I'll leave another comment to be attacked by people who think entirely too highly of themselves. Congratulations, you can spell! I find it annoying when people butcher words, but I'm not a dictionary and I'm sorry I misspelled sophomoric. In the future, I'll spell it right. Thank you for the correction. Does this make me look stupid? Really? I think I do look stupid, but only for wasting my time posting comments in this forum. Ok. I'm done now.

-- Posted by mercy5634 on Mon, May 19, 2008, at 5:57 PM

Not at all aneditor, I don't have the answers. I despise standardized testing and yet amazingly it doesn't follow that I think children should "age" their way out of a grade or lower the bar. I like to think that perhaps there's another solution. Sorry to offend.

-- Posted by mercy5634 on Mon, May 19, 2008, at 5:46 PM

And how would you test students, Mercy? Or would you let them just age their way out of a grade? Move 'em on along to the next grade, don't be concerned about whether they learned anything or not in this one? Ahh yes. That's the answer.

If they can't grasp at least the basics, they're not ready to progress to the next level, no? Or do you prefer to set the bar low enough so they can hit it? That'll make for some REALLY smart kids (and future bloggers), I'd imagine.

Which brings me to Salineite (and his or her point)... you're a hoot! The short bus to Eastwood bit was priceless.

-- Posted by aneditor on Mon, May 19, 2008, at 5:40 PM

I can use them if I want to. I enjoy it. Still worried about spelling? Why?

-- Posted by mercy5634 on Mon, May 19, 2008, at 5:35 PM

I think that standarized testing is wrong. I don't have any children but if I did Marshall School District would be the last place I'd send them. I was raised in this town and attended 4th - 12th here and barely escaped sane. While there are teachers here worth learning from, on the whole I found the school system here to be riddled with petty, immature, sophmoric teachers who never progressed beyond high school themselves. Standarized testing is wrong. That's the message I take from all this nonsense. Instead of holding torches, arguing about spelling, and behaving like children yourselves, perhaps people should wake up and realize that it's ridiculous to use standarized testing to intimidate teachers and school systems, classify all children by the same stupid standard, spend 3 WEEKS wasting time teaching goverment reguritated garbage.

-- Posted by mercy5634 on Mon, May 19, 2008, at 5:27 PM

Oh brother. I find it hard to belive that anyone who reads theese posts is worried about spelling errors to the point they would actualy post about it lol. Get your undies out of a bunch and find something more important to post about besides spelling errors.

-- Posted by kt_01 on Mon, May 19, 2008, at 3:53 PM

LMAO Salineite!! Good one.

-- Posted by pumpkin08 on Mon, May 19, 2008, at 3:32 PM

Its really sad to see how some who post on here,jj, assume that all teachers are cheats. Thats just not the case. There are plenty of good honest teachers in this world who belive a childs education is important and they do enjoy what they do. I have proof because i have three kids in the santa fe school system and in dealings with this system i have found that they truly care about my kids.

On the other hand ive heard alot of bad about the marshall schools. But you cant say all teachers are bad,and they will cheat if givin the oppurtunity.

-- Posted by kt_01 on Mon, May 19, 2008, at 2:16 PM

I've started compiling a list of online resources on standardized testing. The situation at Eastwood will be difficult all around, but it's also an opportunity to learn more about the testing system.

http://www.marshallnews.com/story/140574...

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Mon, May 19, 2008, at 9:34 AM

JJ you must have been an outsider as a child. Now you are using your computer to hide behind. Everything you have to say is negative. The teachers if guilty need to be punished, but not every teacher is a cheater. Please dont start the whining bit again, you do enough for everybody

-- Posted by duke2007 on Mon, May 19, 2008, at 9:16 AM

In no way do these allegations of cheating prove that teachers are overpaid. Have you seen their starting salaries? If anything, teachers are underpaid for what they are asked to accomplish in 9 months.

-- Posted by opin on Mon, May 19, 2008, at 6:39 AM

John Q. you are a good man. I do believe you have earnestly listened to jesus' message.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, May 18, 2008, at 11:07 PM

Most teachers do love what they do and do actually care about the kids that they teach.

-- Posted by AnnaBell on Sun, May 18, 2008, at 8:20 PM

If they would get teachers in there that truely love their jobs and enjoyed working with the kids then you would not have these so called teachers in there cheating to get the kids to pass there test. Maybe you should be taking a look at who is doing the hiring or interviewing?

-- Posted by patty c on Sun, May 18, 2008, at 8:26 AM

JJ, if you and your totally handsome hunk of a life partner want to get hitched, if your life partner has blood and breathes, if you are truly one in heart and spirit with each other and you are willing to walk with me through the fire then I will bless your union.

-- Posted by John Q. on Sun, May 18, 2008, at 12:12 AM

I haven't been on the blog for about a week. I've spent some time tonight catching up and reading about what's been going on.

I don't know any of the particulars of the Cheater Teacher Gate incident but I'm sure those who think the situation demands action will share their concerns with the school board. The rest will continue the talk, demand termination's and plan for the lynching before school ends for the summer.

On the 911 site selection controversy; I went to the site and looked it over. It appears that the City of Marshall paid a price for the property based on acreage. The City built the civic center and museum on what they felt was the best for their needs. I wouldn't consider all of the property left to be prime. Part of the land that has had truckloads of fill dumped on it required it. I looks like it has been a natural drainage area. If you can sell the remaining property for the same price after you have taken the best part then you have fulfilled the developers dream in the business world.

On the latest news of same sex marriages. I remember a show about a man who had a certain affection about leather travel bags. I'm not going to venture any comments about same sex marriages, I'm just waiting for the lawsuit from the person who wants to marry their luggage, man's best friend, who knows. As they say "Only In America." We enjoy freedoms in this country that the rest of the world cannot imagine. Some countries respond with the death penalty on issues that we accept as ordinary here.

I've gotten a token response after my blog on rental property and slum lords ran in the newspaper on Monday. There's been a lot of lawn mowing taking place in my neighborhood.

One city official called someplace, not my home, and wanted to know where the dangerous situation existed that I mentioned in the article. The message was given to me by another person with no name of the official to contact. I'm the easiest guy in town to find. I'm in the book--I guess if I really wanted to do my job I'd send someone out to drive the entire length of O"DELL AVENUE and report any dangerous conditions that involved steel rods driven into the ground next to the SIDEWALK and STREET on the north end of town. Hint-one block north of Eastwood Street, east side. Just report anything capable of causing injury or death to a pedestrian, child riding a bicycle or skateboarder. Please, just have the problem corrected and not prohibit pedestrians, children riding bicycles or other activities.

O Joy! Now that a "clean up" of sorts is underway I have discovered an unlicensed landfill in the neighborhood.

If you have any comments in particular about the decline of Marshall communities I would appreciate your input.

To close by saying, "Only in America" is too broad a stroke on the canvass; only in Missouri is to broad to focus on things here. I'll close with "only in Marshall."

-- Posted by John Q. on Fri, May 16, 2008, at 11:11 PM

The Scarlet Letter....aha....very fitting. BUT hopefully they will lose their positions AND licenses.

-- Posted by mid_mo on Fri, May 16, 2008, at 8:42 PM

I've got a good idea! Let's just embroider a scarlet A on their clothing and let them continue to teach! (I wonder how many of you will get that literary connection?!?!)

-- Posted by oneofmany on Fri, May 16, 2008, at 8:31 PM

I just posted a second addition to the testing problem story expanding on Lorna Stanton's comments.

I'll be glad to add more as information becomes available. I expect the district officials to be methodical in completing the investigation and deciding what should be done, so it may take some weeks for the process to unfold.

I know making swift judgments can be tempting, but they can be dangerous, too. Personally and professionally, I'd rather know what questions people have about the situation. I've got some of my own, most of which can't be answered yet. I've already gotten several good ideas from comments posted here and in response to the story. I'll ask them and report what I learn.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Fri, May 16, 2008, at 4:25 PM

Let me go get my pitchfork and I will be there.

-- Posted by get a clue on Fri, May 16, 2008, at 4:19 PM

Everyone is so quick to judge and condemn...I'm glad there are so many perfect people around...why don't we all get torches and pitchforks and gather outside the school until they turn over those traitors!!

-- Posted by KennyS on Fri, May 16, 2008, at 3:48 PM

I think that if it is possible to find out who the cheating teachers are, they gt fired and their teaching licences revoked!

-- Posted by get a clue on Fri, May 16, 2008, at 2:30 PM

Cat lover,

I agree with you and sorry for the misunderstanding.

Old Owl, GO SUCK ON A LEMON.

-- Posted by get a clue on Fri, May 16, 2008, at 2:29 PM

Pumpkin08, I couldn't agree with you more!

-- Posted by rubyred on Fri, May 16, 2008, at 2:20 PM

Intrigued- so now it's the superintendants fault these teachers did what they did? You need to wake up to reality and realize- what they did was wrong- and they like anyone else should have to suffer the consequences. Who you are, what you know, and money, just isn't going to cut it this time around. Hats off to Mr. Quick for uncovering what happened.

-- Posted by pumpkin08 on Fri, May 16, 2008, at 2:04 PM

I feel very confident that Mr. Quick has done his homework on this fiasco.I'm sure it has not been easy, and has caused alot of hard work for all of the ones involved in the investigation.I think some are upset because if it weren't for Mr. Quick, it would have been swept under the carpet.

-- Posted by tommob on Fri, May 16, 2008, at 2:01 PM

Let's not place blame on Mr. Quick and the school administration to take the heat off those involved! I believe that Mr. Quick has come into a difficult situation, and because he is not from here, is able to look into the matters professionally and descretely. He doesn't have the bias attitude like some that because those involved are "model citizens", "upperclass members of the community", "great teachers",and "loyal friends", the allegations are unbelieveable. Face it! These teachers and principal finally got caught doing something that they had gotten away with for YEARS! Now their the victims! I don't think so!!! I don't believe for one second that those accused are the only ones involved. Many more people in that building knew and covered up what was going on. Wake up!

-- Posted by rubyred on Fri, May 16, 2008, at 1:42 PM

Thanks Eric!!!!!

-- Posted by SalineFire on Fri, May 16, 2008, at 1:33 PM

As I read the breaking news of the cheating ALLEGATIONS at Eastwood, am I to assume that the superintendent is a one man show? Investigator, spokesperson for the school district, financial wizard, personnel manager, pretty much everything for the Marshall School District. This guy isn't even from here and apparently knows more than anyone else on the school board or admnistrative staff from all the decisions that HE is making. Makes me wonder what the true motive of all this is? Hmm. He can't release any further information, just enough to continue to build an unfair case against those who are ordered not to defend themselves. Maybe the superintendent missed his government class where we were taught that in this country, everyone is to be given a fair and equal opportunity to defend themselves against their accuser(s), whomever that may be. Come on Marshall, let's stand up against this coup that we call administration and school board. If the innocent aren't allowed to speak for themselves, then, let's help them out and do it for them. Mr. Quick, this is still a free country and no one, not even the supreme school board of Marshall can squelch my freedom of speech.

-- Posted by intrigued on Fri, May 16, 2008, at 12:14 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Administrators don't discuss personnel matters in public. That's as it should be. But if anyone involved in the matter would like to present their side of the story, I'd be very glad to talk with them. In my experience there's almost always more than one side to every story and we'd like to tell as many as we can.

Back to the 911 riot. All i would like to know is how the voteing went on purchaseing the land?? Does this information need congress to sign off on it to hit the news press or is waiting a week not long enough?

-- Posted by SalineFire on Fri, May 16, 2008, at 11:34 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
From the official minutes of the May 6 minutes, approved at the May 15 meeting:

"Chairman Fletcher entertained a motion to purchase the amount of property needed for the building and tower for the set amount of $38,352.00 per acre, to be paid at the end of a 3 year lease for the actual amount of property needed, agreed upon by the board and city.

"Jack Lenz made it in the form of a motion, Corbin Allred Second.

"Roll Call vote, Corbin Allred-yes, Cindy Schroeder-yes, Jack Lenz-yes, Jesse Coslet-yes, Cathie Jeffries-no, John Rieves-yes, motion carried, 5 yes 1 no."

I am greatly displeased about the decision on where to put the new 911 Center. I feel the persons who made the decison have been lying to the public at all times. They knew where they were going to put it from the start and all the rest was a smoke screen. I have seen the complaint written by the city of Slater and agree with it's comments. Further the lie told about free land to put it on in Marshall is hugh. The amount of TAXPAYER money being spent is absurd when Slater is truely offering FREE LAND

for the site. Shame on you who mislead the public and the Tax Payers. You have no business being in such a place of responsability.

-- Posted by In God we trust on Fri, May 16, 2008, at 10:38 AM

You know these teachers, and principal will get off with a slap on the wrist. In this town, it all depends on who you are, or who you know. I imagine that will never change.

-- Posted by prd123 on Fri, May 16, 2008, at 9:52 AM

Get a Clue:

I can not stand the Assistant Superintendent, I was speaking of the fellow that is here filling in for the superintendent's spot, Mr. Quick. He treats us all fairly and has a super sense of humor.

-- Posted by Cat Lover on Fri, May 16, 2008, at 8:06 AM

To Get a Clue: GET A CLUE! Catlover's prior posting said she knew the interim superintendent, Don Quick, and liked what she saw. She said nothing about the assistant superintendent that you complain about in your last posting! If you are going to complain, at least try try to get your facts straight!

-- Posted by OldOwl on Fri, May 16, 2008, at 7:02 AM

I hear you OK reader!

-- Posted by get a clue on Fri, May 16, 2008, at 2:06 AM

A POINT TO PONDER

In April fruit and vegetable prices rose 2% from the month before. Bread rose 1.5% from the March price. Gasoline was up 10% from the month before. Annualize that rate of inflation and we find that gas will be up 100% for the year, bread 18%, fruit and vegetables 24% annualized. I wonder, what percentage the working person's raise will be this year? Have we had enough yet? Is it time now to throw out ALL the Republicans, and start fresh?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, May 15, 2008, at 11:36 PM

Okay, I have worked for the school district before and upon finding out I was suffering from cancer, quit to heal myself and deal with treatments. I have had frist hand expierence with the assistant super intendent of the schools. He is not a nice man. I am glad that he is leaving. He looks down upon lower income families like they are not as good as he. Some of the teachers do the same. I think that this is wrong but there is nothing that can be done about it. So, Cat lover, I have not seen what you think is so nice about him. A child is a child no matter how much money their family makes. The child is there for a education, not to be ridaculed for not having the best of everything.

-- Posted by get a clue on Thu, May 15, 2008, at 10:09 PM

Yeah, everything seems so trivial compared to that JJ.

-- Posted by mid_mo on Thu, May 15, 2008, at 9:47 PM

We need to think of the kids while we are debating "if" there was cheating or not. In 3rd grade if the students get high test scores the parents and students think they are doing well and then they hit 4th grade and the testing and grades are lower because they are working at their ability that is disapointing, confusing and frustration for both parents and children. It could cause the child to have low self esteem.

-- Posted by Cat Lover on Thu, May 15, 2008, at 7:12 PM

If you will re-read my comment, you will see that I stated IF they are guilty of cheating they should face consequences.

-- Posted by mid_mo on Thu, May 15, 2008, at 3:09 PM

IF you will re-read my comment, I stated IF the parties are found guilty of cheating.

-- Posted by mid_mo on Thu, May 15, 2008, at 3:08 PM

One of Many,

I know it is not against the law to cheat on MAP tests. It is, however, unethical and goes against the grain of society. Even though the alleged cheaters are good people, they should be punished accordingly, just as any other citizen who breaks the rules. There is a certain level of morality and ethical behavior that I feel comes with being an educator. IF these good people who made bad choices are guilty of cheating I think they should lose their jobs, (just my opinion).

I grew up in this town and know all of these good people. I also have seen many good people make bad choices (we are all human afterall) Some are dealt consequences, while others bad choices are pushed under the carpet. A simple "I'm sorry" doesn't always make things better.

The truth always comes out.

I don't know why everyone wants to ridicule me for my opinions, which afterall we all are entitled to.

Best regards to all.

-- Posted by mid_mo on Thu, May 15, 2008, at 1:09 PM

Okay mid_mo, teachers who "cheat" (in whatever form) are not breaking a law. It is not professional and not morally proper, but certainly not breaking a law! From what I understand, there has been very little guidance in the past about what is test preparation and what is teaching to the test. I'm sure this will change now! Also, I've heard people say that teachers take a pledge to not cheat on the MAP test....this is also not true, according to several teacher friends. There certainly is an abundance of misinformation out there.

-- Posted by oneofmany on Wed, May 14, 2008, at 10:17 PM

Okay mid_mo, teachers who "cheat" (in whatever form) are not breaking a law. It is not professional and not morally proper, but certainly not breaking a law! From what I understand, there has been very little guidance in the past about what is test preparation and what is teaching to the test. I'm sure this will change now! Also, I've heard people say that teachers take a pledge to not cheat on the MAP test....this is also not true, according to several teacher friends. There certainly is an abundance of misinformation out there.

-- Posted by oneofmany on Wed, May 14, 2008, at 9:50 PM

Everyone needs to keep in mind that there is a particular process that the School Board, and every other employer for that matter, must follow in all matters dealing with personnel. They are not free to share personnel matters with the public unless and until that process is followed. When the investigation is completed, I am confident that the Board will divulge the results, to the fullest extent that it can, and let the public know what decisions it has made based on the results of the investigation. Until this happens, those who speculate on the result are doing nothing more than spreading unfounded rumors and baselessly challenging the character and morals of others.

-- Posted by OldOwl on Wed, May 14, 2008, at 4:23 PM

This is all accusations. IF there is or was any knowledge of wrong doing, there is a process that must be followed. Otherwise, the presumed wrong doing will be a wash.

-- Posted by nomad on Wed, May 14, 2008, at 3:03 PM

Whew, good thing we are all disguised by screen names.

Some of you are being down right mean... It is not necessary to take this situation out on each other. What is the solution? How can the parents along w/ school officials work together?

I know.... Go to the SCHOOL BOARD MEETINGS.

-- Posted by nomad on Wed, May 14, 2008, at 9:33 AM

But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God.

We have denied God by removing him from our schools and from our public bodies. May God have mercy on those who deny him!

-- Posted by speakout on Wed, May 14, 2008, at 8:51 AM

Intrigued,

Our former superintendent is a nice man but he slipped up on the investigation of the MAP cheating. He was afraid we would lose our accreditation with the state. Mr. Quick is a highly respected past administrator. He is a nice retired experienced administrator who was hired until a new superintendent could be found. We are so lucky that he is the one that is here. So far I have found him to be a very fair and intelligent man.

-- Posted by Cat Lover on Wed, May 14, 2008, at 8:04 AM

intrigued,

Bite your own tounge. She has the right to her oppinion. If you don't like it, keep your mouth shut and move on.

-- Posted by get a clue on Wed, May 14, 2008, at 1:03 AM

P.S. Peg, tell me something. How do you know so much about this situation? How can you say that these people are a disgrace to the community. I'll have you know, I believe they are to be commended for putting up with this school board and this administration. Here's an analogy for you Peg: I bet your kid, who one of these teachers taught, is a total hot headed, biased, unable to control his/her temper or tongue brat. How did I come to that conclusion, well, I just used the information I had about your kid. The only info I have is just what I've read from a few lines you wrote on this blog, that's it. All the majority of people know about these educators is the one sided trash being put out by educated idiots. By the way, I wouldn't go so far as to call your kid a disgrace either Peg, sometimes you have to control yourself.

-- Posted by intrigued on Tue, May 13, 2008, at 9:34 PM

I'm so amazed at all the "facts" that are floating around this community regarding the "cheating". First of all, those who have been accused have been denied the right to defend themselves as they have been told not to speak to anyone regarding this matter, yet the Marshall Public School Board can issue a press release to The Democrat News saying that they are investigating the allegations, yet they had already taken action on the issue. This lack of honesty has been something that has been troubling this board for some time now, so much as to cost an excellent superintendent his job. Shame on this board. I hope that eventually, this community will stand up to this board and the administration, as temporary as they may be. Since the board and administration have been so "open" on the allegations of cheating, I'd like them to open up about some of their issues. Mr. Quick, why is it that you are no longer in administration else where? What were the reasons around you leaving your last job. To the school board, tell the community a little bit about the past history of the newly hired superintendent and assistant superintendent. Why is it that Mr. Quick and this board are making all of these severe allegations without giving those involved a chance to answer their accuser(s). I believe that this "house cleaning" is going to cost the school district some excellent and dedicated teachers. It's already cost this district a great administrator, Dr. Gordon, because of "facts". To the voters of the Marshall School District: First time, shame on them; second time, shame on us.

-- Posted by intrigued on Tue, May 13, 2008, at 9:21 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
A couple of clarifications:

1. The board did not issue a news release on the cheating allegation. Rumors have been going around for quite some time. We asked school officials whether there was anything to them and they said they were investigating to see whether anything was amiss. That's what we reported.

2. I believe the allegations were made prior to Dr. Quick's arrival in the district. My understanding: He's not making allegations. He's investigating in order to answer allegations.

hasn't anybody learned anything from the mitchell report? if you want to win, you have to cheat.

-- Posted by Eff Ess on Tue, May 13, 2008, at 7:00 PM

These teachers and principal need to be punished. I don't want these people teaching my children, unfortunatly one of them already has...... your a disgrace to this community!

-- Posted by Peg on Tue, May 13, 2008, at 6:49 PM

Gossiphater, my hat is off to you for your comments last night to mid_mo. It has never ceased to amaze me how many people there are that always "seem" to have all of the answers to everything. Now we are ready to crucify the teachers, last week it was the 911 Commission and the citizens of Marshall. I would assume that the next thing will be whatever news story that breaks. Everyone has all the answers but never the responsibilities that go with knowing "everything" and tell things for the truth when they wouldn't know the truth if it bit them in the shorts. Before you set out to criticize someone, ask for the facts. The "real facts", not those simply told for the appearance of knowing more than you do.

-- Posted by spareme on Tue, May 13, 2008, at 6:33 PM

the only way to get to the top is to lie and cheat. that's why the EU was created.

-- Posted by Eff Ess on Tue, May 13, 2008, at 6:21 PM

Maybe the Cancer Center should ask the 911 Board for the remainder of their campaign....seems they have an abundance of cash flow these days.

-- Posted by pumpkin08 on Tue, May 13, 2008, at 4:14 PM

I have a few things I would like to express:

The only thing employees have been notified happened in the meeting were some position transfers, new hires and some resignations (not by those in question regarding MAP testing). This would mean one of two things - either nothing was discussed regarding the MAP test, or nothing has been decided and it is still under investigation.

What we need to keep in mind is that these people that are being readily crucified are human, and humans make mistakes. We have all made them. I'm not making excuses, I believe that if it turns out they did do something unethical, there should be some action taken. What action, I don't know, because I don't know the details. But we also need to keep in mind the families of those involved. Some have kids in school, some are married, etc. This whole incident is going to be difficult on them as well. You may think that the comments you make will only hurt the offending person, when in actuality, it hurts the family too, sometimes more. Put yourself in those shoes. Let's not jump to conclusions, and although it is hard, let's try to trust our administration to do the right thing - for the district and for the kids.

Speaking of the district - This has been an embarrassing year - but I hope the public does not lose faith in those that work so hard for our children. There are only a few "leaders" deciding the fate of the rest, therefore, everyone cannot be held accountable for their bad decisions. We have some fabulous teachers, secretaries, personal aides, custodians and whoever else you can think of that work hard everyday to help our kids. Hopefully as a district, they can withstand yet another storm, and come out even stronger. I think we would do well to keep the teachers and administrators involved in the MAP testing mess in our prayers, as well as the district as a whole.

And to Smokin' Cheetah - The good news of the day is that the weather, starting Wednesday, looks to be beautiful with little rain in sight. The farmers will finally be able to get in their fields!

-- Posted by outsidelookin'in on Tue, May 13, 2008, at 3:44 PM

Here's a Web site discussing the Missouri "Sunshine Law."

http://ago.mo.gov/sunshinelaw/sunshinela...

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, May 13, 2008, at 3:20 PM

I have been reading comments on this site for quite some time but never felt the need to respond until the current issue of teacher cheating was brought up. I do understand the pressure that is currently on teachers to perform well on the MAP tests. However, is that any different than the pressure that the students feel on a day-to-day basis to pass any given test. I don't believe that teachers are as willing to 'understand' that kind of pressure. Teachers and school administrators have to understand that by choosing the profession they are in, they have opened themselves up to scrutiny by parents and students. How can they expect their students to respect them when they are doing the same things the kids are. Kids are punished for fighting, cheating, lying, smoking, etc. School administrators and teachers don't think they should be. I have lost any school spirit that I once had for MHS. My children experienced unfairness in the classroom and on the athletic fields. I think a lot of people would be surprised at what gets swept under the carpet as far as teacher/student relationships. In the rare instances that a school person is held accountable for their indiscretions, they are just let go and sent to another school to do the same thing.

-- Posted by Bambi on Tue, May 13, 2008, at 3:17 PM

Right on Nomad. NanaDot, thanks for evoking a chuckle. It warmed the cockles of me old heart aaaargh.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, May 13, 2008, at 3:03 PM

How did the teachers cheat? Maybe I missed something- but just curious as to what actually happened.

-- Posted by pumpkin08 on Tue, May 13, 2008, at 2:19 PM

We all have our black mark, a time when our emotional intelligence has over ridden our thought process. Forgivness has been gifted to the person that lost his cool ( by the only people that truely matter~~HIS FAMILY ) We as the public need to forget AND let this unfortunate event stay in the past.

There are many mentors I am proud of... learned something from. NO ONE PERSON is perfect. An alchoholic, pothead, tax evader, or any other label you care to use- can still be effective instructors.

I am more worried about the middle schoolers who look towards the television to find the next FAD.

As a community there are many lessons we could be helping our children learn and understand. Which should not be to pass judgement and do nothing to fix or overcome the issues with a new blueprint.

-- Posted by nomad on Tue, May 13, 2008, at 2:13 PM

Can someone explain why the public has not heard about what happened at the special board meeting last Friday morning? Sunshine law states it is public knowledge after 72 hours. Haven't we met that?

To all who think that the facts need to be heard...I agree. However, if the teachers cheated, they need to take the punshiment. There is NO excuse to cheat. The "pressure" they feel to cheat is no excuse, they could have chosen not to do cheat, if in fact they did. ALL involved need to be dealt with and the punshiments should be paralel for all involved. Those that did it and those who hid it! Accomplice to the crime should also have to do the time.

Just because others are doing it (cheating)...doesn't mean it is right! We need to remember that and not cut slack to these alleged teachers, who by the way are teaching our children and are with them more than their parents. We need to take a stand and not accept this!

Response by Kathy Fairchild/Staff writer:

Here is a website that gives the pertinent details of the Missouri "Sunshine Law."

http://ago.mo.gov/sunshinelaw/sunshinela...

It says, in brief, that the information must be made available to the public, not that it must be published.

That doesn't mean we won't, only that it's not required by the law, at least as I understand it from this Web site.

In the past, we have published pertinent information. I assume we will do so in this instance.

It may be that the 72 hours does not include weekends, which I don't see at the website. If that's true, then if the meeting was held Friday evening, they would not be required to make it available until some time tomorrow.

-- Posted by RedAngel on Tue, May 13, 2008, at 1:50 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
The board released the matters it took action on, as required. I didn't get it in today's paper. My apologies. Here's the news release in its entirety:

"The Marshall Board of Education approved the following resignations and employment at the special board meeting which was held Friday, May 9 at 7:00 a.m.:

"Resignations: Gabe Gray, Social Worker, as of June 27, 2008; Maria Hutchinson, 7th Grade Girls Volleyball Coach, as of the end of the 2007-08 school year; Tonya Johnson, Northwest Paraprofessional, as of the end of the 2007-08 school year; Leslie Luttrell, BMS Secretary, as of the end of the 2007-08 school year; Michael Schwartz, Benton Special Education Teacher, as of the end of the 2007-08 school year; and Kirby Rugen, who declined our offer of employment for the 2008-09 school year.

"Employment: Matt Green, MHS Paraprofessional, as of the 2008-09 school year; Lindsey Hunolt, Elementary Teacher, as of the 2008-09 school year; Maynor Palma, Bus Driver, as of May 6, 2008; and Karen Sims, Bus Driver, as of May 5, 2008.

"The board was informed of the following transfers for the 2008-09 school year: Joe Klinge, MHS Paraprofessional to SE Paraprofessional; Debbie Perkins, Technology to Elementary Position; and Wanda Terryberry, Benton Kindergarten to Early Childhood."

people who don't cheat are commies. unfair advantages make the world work.

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Tue, May 13, 2008, at 12:21 PM

Mid mo,

You have to take what some of these state with a grain of salt. No need to explain yourself. We are ALL intitled to our oppinion. :)

-- Posted by get a clue on Tue, May 13, 2008, at 8:53 AM

I am not saying that I am perfect because I am NOT. I am simply saying that people in general need to suffer the natural consequences of their actions. IF these teachers are found guilty of what they have been accused THEN they should lose their teaching licenses. As for role models, I agree that parents are the most important ones children can have, BUT teachers spend more time with our children than most parents and what they do and what they say directly affects our children whether we want to admit that or not. I am not saying that the alleged actions of these teachers is going to ruin the lives of their students,. I am saying that people in general who break the law need to pay the price equally. I was simply making a remark about the recent allegations of cheating teachers because it is recent news.

-- Posted by mid_mo on Tue, May 13, 2008, at 7:13 AM

I have to agree with Oklahoma reader. To many parents depend on teacher's to be babysitter's and disciplinarians. If you are a parent, then that means you decided to "do the deed" and keep your child, you need to take the reponsibility upon yourself. I am a single parent, and it is upon myself to discipline and be a role model for my child.

-- Posted by Missing home on Tue, May 13, 2008, at 2:22 AM

I can not avoid commenting in regard to the recent fingerpointing, and castigation that has erupted on this blog. It seems to me that if a parent is a good role model to his or her children, those children will embrace the parent as a role model, and that parent need not worry about the children selecting bad role models. On the other hand if a child looks to a parent, and sees a hypocrite, no good outside role model can remove the scars of that wound. If your child appears to be following a bad role model first take a hard look at yourself before throwing stones at others whom you feel should be their role model. Many learned folk say that a child's basic character is formed by age seven. That informs and reinforces for me that it comes from the home. It does not come from the errant behaviour of some police officer, or teacher. After excluding those unfortunate children with mental illness,or innate dysfunction, the rest are your products Mom and Dad. Own up.

There is one thing I do not miss about typical small towns such as Marshall. That is the wretched gossips, otherwise empty vessels filled with bile and bitterness that spew forth with the regularity of Old Faithful. It takes the edge off the regret I sometimes feel at leaving my old home town.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, May 12, 2008, at 11:59 PM

Okay, mid_mo, I'm about the biggest prude on earth, and your comments annoyed even me! Stop blaming the schools for everything. When I went to school back in the Dark Ages, there were male teachers who were WAY too interested in girls' short skirts. I also recall a couple with alcohol problems. One even was known to smoke pot. Yes, there were even adulterers. I certainly did not look to them as role models. They didn't determine my future one way or the other. I think if you asked prisoners who are incarcerated today why they went astray, very few of them would say it was because their high school teacher had an affair. I was from a single-parent home and my mom was my role model! That's the way it should be.

-- Posted by oneofmany on Mon, May 12, 2008, at 10:51 PM

Ah yes..... another Harper Valley Peyton Place!

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, May 12, 2008, at 10:36 PM

Mid_mo, are you another one of those from Marshall making strong accusations about people while hiding behind the computer screen? Are you one of the many that have to put others down to make yourself feel good? It seems as though you have spent some time in the donut shop or beauty parlor. If you have a problem, go see those individuals in person to express your concerns and maybe you will find out the truth about your accusations. You seem to know a lot about all of those individuals and their problems. Where do you get your information? I am tired of this town and all of the gossip(second-hand information). Please allow law enforcement and the leaders of our school system the opportunity to find the facts and apply discipline as needed. I know some of the people that you are making reference to and they are darn good people with great families. Do not be afraid to show your face and visit the accused- maybe you would find that some of these people are good people that do tremendous things for our kids, as I know they do. My kids have attended Marshall Public Schools and have been very successful-thank you teachers and administrators. Stop being so narrow minded like many others in the town of Marshall. Remarks like yours continue to create negative gossip, rumor and speculation. Is that good for Marshall? No, it kills the culture and makes good people want to leave! Role models?? Don't forget that a child's #1 role model is the parent(s)- Unfortunately, I'm sure the singular use of parent will relate to more than the plural... I just do not get the point of your comment- it is very shallow! Be Happy, man!

-- Posted by gossiphater on Mon, May 12, 2008, at 10:01 PM

sorry to change the subject but can someone explain to me why when oil is down over a dollar a barrell today the gas prices are up $0.10 a gallon?

-- Posted by landreth on Mon, May 12, 2008, at 8:44 PM

Personally I am disturbed by the actions of these teachers. It is my opinion that they all be fired and have their teaching licenses pulled. I don't understand why teachers and administrators in our public school system are allowed to keep their jobs when they commit acts that are not worthy of role models for our children. I am speaking of counselor/principal affairs, counselor/teacher affairs, an administrator who publicly assulted his wife, coaches who brawl, etc. The list goes on. It is sad these people are allowed to represent themselves as models for our children to follow and even sadder that we accept it.

-- Posted by mid_mo on Mon, May 12, 2008, at 6:22 PM

Summer is here. Please make sure you crazy drivers don't speed through the streets, you never know when a child will be out playing and you might hit them. It's not like the police are going to do anything.. they haven't before so why should this summer be any different.

-- Posted by AnnaBell on Mon, May 12, 2008, at 5:49 PM

I sure hope that we are not going to start making excuses for our teachers to cheat! Winners never cheat and cheaters never win!

-- Posted by speakout on Mon, May 12, 2008, at 4:08 PM

Cheating is wrong.. but it is so sad that there is that much pressure on teachers to do well on the MAP test that they feel they have to cheat.

-- Posted by tommob on Mon, May 12, 2008, at 2:34 PM

To make it clearer it was a former school official that wanted to keep the lid on the cheating.

-- Posted by Cat Lover on Mon, May 12, 2008, at 11:57 AM

Finally, the information school officials asked teachers to keep quiet about is partially out. Doesn't our public deserve the truth ASAP?! Many of us in the schools have known about the cheating since MAP scores first came in.

-- Posted by me1234 on Mon, May 12, 2008, at 8:51 AM

Im sure that a overweight short female cop could take jj down with no probs. Id pay money to see it too. all shed have to do is poke him and all that hot air would come out and hed deflate.

-- Posted by kt_01 on Mon, May 12, 2008, at 8:34 AM

It's so nice to see our local cops out on patrol with a cigarette or cigar sticking out of their mouths.

So much for them being a role model and providing our youth and community with a good image.

-- Posted by Paulie Walnuts on Mon, May 12, 2008, at 3:36 AM

oneofmany, when congress passed the 'no child left behind bill' it was doomed from the start. When congress refused to fund it became just lip service.

When politicians want to get elected they proclaim that our children are our most important asset. If that were true there wouldn't be any problems building schools, maintaining them, staffing them and presenting our children with the finest education possibilities in the world.

Unlike other government mandated and funded programs like the military, law enforcement (FBI, CIA, DEA, USMS, DHLS, FAS)education has to struggle just to meets the growing demands on overburdened systems. It's unfortunate that politicians act like a whole generation is expendable when they fail to fulfill the responsibilities that they are elected to perform.

-- Posted by John Q. on Sun, May 11, 2008, at 11:37 PM

No Child Left Behind will be the downfall of our educational system. The situation across the nation is sad. Educators are spending unbelievable amounts of time testing and getting ready to test. So much so, that teachers have little time to teach the material that kids need to learn. The pressure on kids and teachers is totally out of control. For kids who struggle, this format is a nightmare. Rather than taking more time to reteach skills, teachers must move on because of the test.

-- Posted by oneofmany on Sun, May 11, 2008, at 11:12 PM

lolz.

-- Posted by Eff Ess on Sun, May 11, 2008, at 10:00 AM

I spent the morning in Columbia at the Missouri Democratic Party Convention. I hope to be able to report some of the conversations that I had with some of the Missouri Super Delegates after church services tomorrow. I'm glad to finally hear what direction things are going for the convention in Denver.

-- Posted by John Q. on Sat, May 10, 2008, at 10:33 PM

While all the points raised are great points I would like to make one other observation. Budget short falls, superintendent issues, forgoing school supplies in order to increase administrators pay, not teachers pay but administrators. Just a few of the short falls our school board has left us with. I hope if nothing else this brings the eyes of the community closer on there elected officials!

-- Posted by speakout on Sat, May 10, 2008, at 10:15 AM

Cheating on the MAP test? I guess that would mean that the teacher is taking the test not the child. NCLB has a lot of flaws and will change with any new administration. I think that anytime a government dabbles in things they aren't experts in, trouble will result. If you look at education in general, from local school boards to state and federal officials, the people that run the department or schools are not educators (in general, there are exceptions). In Missouri ANYONE can be on a school board, there are no education limitations, just a residency in the district. That means you don't even have to have a high school diploma to be on a board. You do have to have some training from the MO School Board Assn.

I would think that as a teacher, if you are doing your job...teaching the children, there would be no need to cheat. I understand that NCLB has set some unrealistic expectations for students with learning disablities, but if a teacher and parents are doing all they can, the children will want to learn and will learn to the best of their ability and test scores will reflect that.

Parents should do their part, be involved and care about their children's education. Work with the teachers...not against them. Parents should expect the best teachers from their district to teach their children.

With that being said, Marshall should replace cheating teachers and administrators with those that are honest and ethical. It is moral and just. What we teach our children to do today...they will do tomorrow.

Is that what we want our children to do? Do whatever it takes to get ahead or to beat the system even if it means cheating?

-- Posted by RedAngel on Sat, May 10, 2008, at 9:35 AM

Just a point to ponder. An overwhelming majority of Americans believe the Bush Administration has failed. A majority believe we need change. John McCain voted with the Bush Administration all but 11.7% of the time during the current congress. Will a vote for John McCain this fall be a vote for change, or will it be a vote for McBush?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, May 10, 2008, at 4:39 AM

An afterthought before I hang it up. I have been unable to post a comment, or even review all comments for several days because my computer system could not swallow all the comment that had been previously placed on this site. I was itching to jump in the middle of The Great Jody Corn War while it blew hot and heavy but could not. Perhaps that is just as well. I had a great highschool friend who is one of Saline County's larger recipients of the subsidy, and there is another large recipient that is kin of my kin. I must say that some of the cogent comments of NanaDot, and a few others of that ilk that I caught before they rapidly passed into the forbidden realm of Review All Comments assuaged my itch to some degree. The community is blessed to have this forum, and I am thankful for the opportunity to be back. After all, the mind is a terrible thing to waste, and we old codgers must exercise them vigorously or they will waste away. So to all my fellow geezers left, right, and center: one, two, three, up, down, up, down, that's it, come on keep it up! OBTW a public thank you to our great editor Mr. Crump for fixing my problem.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, May 10, 2008, at 3:46 AM

One should not be surprised by the elementary school test cheating allegations in the Marshall school system. Whether the local allegations are true or not it is happening all over the United States. It is in my opinion a result of another Bush Administration initiative that has been an utter failure. One should not be surprised by that either. After all have they gotten any thing right? Of course I am talking about the No Child's Behind Left program. Unrealistic goals have been set by the program that do not take into account local demographics that make it impossible to reach standards that go up each year. The pressure builds each year that standards are not met as the schools are threatened with loss of funding, and other punitive measures. Teachers across the nation are forced to teach, or should I say drill their students to score well on the mandated tests, and to heck with educating them. Again, one should not be surprised when some desperate teachers cheat in a desperate effort to reach impossible goals. What is surprising is that more have not cheated. It is a program that must be dumped when the incompetent rascals are finally driven from office this fall. And oh yes before one of the few remaining defenders of this disasterous administration who are desperately chewing on a bone because there is no meat left on the carcass chortlingly throws it up, Ted Kennedy did sign on to cosponsor the program. Chappaquiddik was his first great mistake, this was his second. He regrets both.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, May 10, 2008, at 2:56 AM

YES i just wonder how testing here has gone on my son was tested here and was according to the test he was function ing at a 4 th grader but in the 8 grade i moved him out of this district they testedhim and hes right on task so tell me what going on here its all for the money to keep kids in the special ed classes to get more money.

-- Posted by purpleroses on Fri, May 9, 2008, at 10:37 PM

In regards to the testing problems at a local area elementary school:

If in fact cheating was occurring, all parties should be held accountable. The school district should not tolerate any form of testing cheating at all. If I am not mistaken, character education is taught in our schools. How can teachers and administrators teach character when they are possibly cheating to boost test scores?

Hooray to Dr. Quick for bringing this issue out and dealing with it. I would hope that his testing situation be reported to the state. Has it been reported?

I agree with a previous post that parents should do their part at home. That is a no brainer! Parents should do the primary teaching of character and morals. It should be reinforced at school though.

With all of the trouble this district has had of late, I hope that the kids don't suffer. Why can't we just get quality teachers that are educated well, care about the students, honest, and have good morals?

-- Posted by RedAngel on Fri, May 9, 2008, at 9:40 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
I called J.D. King, Region 2 supervisor of instruction for the Department of Elementary and Secondary Education. He said he was aware of the allegations and that Donn Quick was looking into it.

Speakout,

I think you need to calm down and stop with the blame game. We haven't heard all of the facts yet, and I for one don't plan on contributing to your witchhunt. Take a deep breath and live your life to the fullest. Teach YOUR kids right from wrong and don't rely on just the school to teach them not to cheat. I definitely believe there is more to this story than meets the eye. Let's wait to see what the whole story is first, then vent if you need to. I want to hear all of the facts before I rant and rave ;)

-- Posted by Marshall Citizen on Fri, May 9, 2008, at 5:10 PM

As I read the paper right now I am totally discussed with our entire school administration! Alligation of irregularities (AKA cheating). If EVERYONE involved in this doesn't loose there job we have a serious breach of public and civil duties! What a fine example the teachers and staff set for teaching our young children to CHEAT! While I am sure we have some great teachers in our school district we have some that are simply lazy! While it is the norm I know to guarantee a contract after a certain period of time I think it is wrong! If they had to prove there worth keeping every year, maybe just maybe our kids would learn something besides how to cheat! I also think that our school board seems to be to worried about getting re-elected to actually deal with problems the way they should be dealt with! Remember this at the next election! What do you think?

-- Posted by speakout on Fri, May 9, 2008, at 5:00 PM

I read your remarks everyday all day. you all are so opinionated that I just want to become involved, because like you guys, I too am very opinionated. It's a great way to chat and speak our minds with the news that is going on in todays world!

-- Posted by labgirl on Fri, May 9, 2008, at 3:40 PM

u know jj, sometimes i see your point, sometimes i would just like to squeeze your neck! but you are good at raising some eyebrows !!

-- Posted by themonsterinme on Fri, May 9, 2008, at 12:12 PM

Just FYI,

Speak Out was getting too big -- more than 1,500 comments! (That's a problem we like to have.) So I archived the comments from November 2007 through yesterday and started fresh. You can still read the old comments by clicking the link above or go to

http://www.marshallnews.com/story/128975...

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Fri, May 9, 2008, at 9:40 AM


Respond to this story

Posting a comment requires free registration. If you already have an account on this site, enter your username and password below. Otherwise, click here to register.

Username:

Password:  (Forgot your password?)

Your comments:
Please be respectful of others and try to stay on topic.

Related subjects