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Saturday, Oct. 25, 2014

Speak Out November 8, 2007 through May 8, 2008

Thursday, November 8, 2007


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I took a couple of days off and when I get back if find this same debate going on. I thought you guys would have settled this thing, on way of the other, by now.

-- Posted by John Q. on Thu, May 8, 2008, at 8:36 PM

finally somebody gives JJ some credit.

-- Posted by Eff Ess on Thu, May 8, 2008, at 8:51 AM

i was just watching on the news that clay county wants to sound the tornado sirens for other things than a tornado. Hail and high winds also. They failed to sound the tornado siren when the tornado hit and people didnt get any warning.

Those sirens are meant for one thing. Sounding it for wind and hail will lead to confussion and when a real one hits,again and it sounds people may not respond to it cause they think its just hail or wind. baaad idea.

They also say after the fact,that it wasnt sounded because its meant for outdoor warnings only. maybe so in there eyes but i live along way from the siren here and in bad weather with tornado watches and warnings people tend to turn down tvs and keep noise levels low so they can hear it.I know i can hear ours in the house. people may wait until they actually hear the siren go off to run for cover.. Clay county is making excuses.I sure hope our town never trys to do something so dumb.

-- Posted by kt_01 on Wed, May 7, 2008, at 10:26 PM

I think the reporters should stick to their other duties and leave the blog to the readers.

After all, they have their articles and their columns/blogs to say their piece. How many forums do you need Ms. Gorrell, Ms. Fairchild and Mr. Crump?

-- Posted by Paulie Walnuts on Wed, May 7, 2008, at 10:04 PM

Let me think.................hmmmmm........

$153,408.00 plus tower cost estimated at $200,000.00 vs. $0.00. Which one would be a better deal for the taxpayers of Saline County? But why quible of a few hundred thousand dollars; after all there were criteria & guidelines to decide which site was........oops that didn't happen either. The citizens of Saline County should be outraged!!

-- Posted by saline mo on Wed, May 7, 2008, at 2:17 PM

Good point on calling out Jody and JJ. Now I feel sick to my stomache thinking that I was actually sticking up for Jody.

Sorry for stepping on toes with my comments. To think that you can not trust anyones word here is disturbing. I guess that is what you get for being in Cyberspace.

I think that it is actually interesting that someone stated that Jody is a bully. I guess that means you think that JJ is one as well. Thank you for finally seeing the light. Too bad that both of them can't be banned from here. Maybe then discussions can actually be worthwhile.

-- Posted by get a clue on Wed, May 7, 2008, at 1:06 PM

What a great idea Muffin. I'm not a farmer or related to any but I'm getting a bit tired of all the farmer bashing. If it was such an easy job with great pay and all the benefits, don't you think that people would be knocking each other over to buy all the land and equipment so they could all be those rich farmers with the 6 month a year jobs?

-- Posted by SalineNative on Wed, May 7, 2008, at 11:44 AM

Dear NanaDot,

I think you make some excellent suggestions, now getting the status quo in Washington to change, may be a problem. The one percent of Americans still left farming have adapted through the years, in a system they didn't create or have much control over. Despite what's been posted lately, most are not very political.

Your regional market idea makes me think of one of the Century Farm owners with land near Blackburn. His German immigrant grandfather, who had originally purchased the land, told him to never sell it. "You'll never starve here," he said, adding that the land could grow anything but grapefruits and oranges. I think he's still right today. We are fortunate to be blessed with good ground and adequate rainfall.

Even though this year the blessing of rainfall seems to be turning into a curse...

Smokin' Cheetah, I never thought of that, interesting theory.

Muffin, That's a good idea. They do have those kind of games. My boys play John Deere's American Farmer. It's not "real accurate" but does point out some of the pitfalls of farming.

Marcia

-- Posted by Marcia Gorrell on Wed, May 7, 2008, at 11:29 AM

Here's an idea, why don't Jody and JJ play fantasy farmer. You know, like the fantasy football leagues they have.

We'll "give" you 2,000 acres. You purchase the all the equipment -- tractor, planter, combine, trucks for hauling, etc. -- either new or used, your choice. Allow fuel for all equipment, seed, chemicals and other inputs needed, allow for one paid employee and give them benefits if you can afford them in your plan, cost of any repairs to machinery needed during your planting/cultivating/harvest period -- I'm sure you can find a Web site for national averages for cost of repairs on an average year, interest on loans for equipment -- remember, we gave you the land so no interest payment there nor payment for land you might rent to make up your 2,000 acres. Again, I'm sure you guys will find a site with average ag interest payments for equipment.

Base your crop yield on the area you live in and report back to us what your giant profit is so you can get paid.

I'm sure you'll both share your farm budget plan and outcome with us. Can't wait!

-- Posted by Muffin on Wed, May 7, 2008, at 9:09 AM

C-Jay,

I think you are very correct. The idea of the farm program is to keep a steady, safe and cheap supply of food. In that way, for the most part it has worked. We pay less than 10 percent of our take home income for food, much less than any other country in the world. Of course, it's not a perfect system, I'm sure there could be a better program, I'm just not smart enough to know how.

Here is a website that explains the reason behind subsidies. http://www.alfafarmers.org/issues/farm_p...

According to that site: In Switzerland and Norway, for example, more than 70 percent of farm revenue is derived from government payments, compared with only 20 percent in the United States.

In dollars terms, the European Union spends more than $100 billion on farm supports payments, while the United States spends only $44 billion, despite that the U.S. farm economy is considerably larger.

Statistics show we have lost fewer farmers in the last 25 years, than the 25 years before that. In this area, very few farmers have been forced out of business and many young farmers have come back. I know for a fact in the tough 80's and 90's subsidies kept some in business.

However, everytime a smaller farmer quits, a bigger farm gets bigger. I, too, would like to see more small farmers getting started and stay in business, than more big farms.

River Ratt pointed out what happened in Northwest Missouri when they all went to CRP. No farmers equals no businesses. Now those counties are stuck with Premium Standard Farms.

All that money that has come into our county in subsidies since 1995, over $150 million, has mostly been spent in the county. No doubt in one way or another it has helped Saline County.

NanaDot, You're right.

J.J. You're right too. Food is overrated as well!

Marcia

-- Posted by Marcia Gorrell on Wed, May 7, 2008, at 7:18 AM

Did You Know Marshall Once Had A Racetrack?

www.sportsmansspeedwaymarshall.com

-- Posted by Sportsmans Speedway Marshall on Wed, May 7, 2008, at 5:59 AM

The rain woke me up early today, but I wasn't worried, according to one of the 911 board members, the winds blow in Slater, so we are safe in Marshall from any winds. what a very impressive comment.

-- Posted by saline on Wed, May 7, 2008, at 2:49 AM

WOW!!!!

I am glad I have a job that gives me a lot of time to read the Democrat news speak out column. Seems like Jody came in and got everyone riled up. I did look through the list and noticed a few names I recognized on that list. Of course the names I noticed were small family farms and not corporations. Going by the names I know and have knowledge of how much each makes, it seems they are not even making one percent of their total income from the subsidies. I don't know if the same is true for all farmers on the list, so if anyone knows that information could you share it with us.

I have a question for the farmers on here. Aren't there some "agreements" and "rules" that farmers must follow to receive subsidies? I thought farmers had to plant X amount of this and X amount of that to follow the rules and receive the subsidies. I was also under the impression that the subsidies were there to get farmers to grow more of a product that wouldn't be as profitable without the subsidies. For instance lets say soybeans are going for $6 a bushel and corn is going for $3 a bushel. What farmer in his/her right mind would plant corn that year when he/she could make twice as much growing soybeans? Is this not why the Government would subsidize the corn (in this example) so those farmers would grow corn instead of soybeans. Otherwise we would have a surplus of soybeans and a shortage of corn. This would be passed down to the consumer and for that year we would be paying an outrageous amount for corn.

Now for math, if the above is true, wouldn't the larger farms make more in subsidies than the smaller farms. If a farm has 5,000 acres and plants 2,500 in corn and gets $2 (in subsidies) per bushel for the corn and got 50 bushel per acre then that person would make $250,000 in subsidies. Now if a farm had 500 acres and plants 250 acres with corn at the same $2 in subsidies and the same 50 bushels per acre, that farmer would make 25,000 in subsidies. I am not sure how the system actually works but in my calculations, all farmers get the same subsidy, but of course the larger farms will make more due to producing more product. If I am way off, would one of the farmers, or at least someone with close knowledge of how the system works let me know.

Now for my opinion on the issue: If the subsidies are taken away, the price of one product will go up for the consumers. If corn is selling for more, the farmers will grow corn. This would mean a surplus of corn and shortage of soybeans. If soybeans are selling for more the farmers will grow soybeans. Once again this means a surplus of soybeans and shortage of corn. This will result in the consumer paying a significant amount more for the product that has a shortage. If the large or "corporate" farms are not given the same subsidies as the smaller farms then the large farms will simply grow the product that they can get the most money for. Of course once again the cost is passed on to us, the consumer.

Ok Jody you mentioned a solution. "It centers around taking land and giving it to others; the creation of collective farming; and sharing the wealth."

Isn't this socialism at its finest. Let me guess you have dined with Chavez and Castro as well? Why don't we just nationalize all business that you don't like and see how that works?

-- Posted by cjay on Wed, May 7, 2008, at 2:33 AM

Jody: Ms Plattner has many other activities going on besides what you listed. This item was posted several weeks ago and was quickly buried without any comments. Perhaps it bears repeating:

According to the 'Marshall Democrat News' (03/25/08) Commissioner Becky Plattner announced she is seeking the office of lieutenant governor and filed Friday, March 21, to be on the August primary ballot. In the announcement she stated: "I'm not going to run a hard campaign," I am committed to serving the people of Saline County. I just want to get my name in the hat...."

According the 'Slater Main Street News' (04/24/08) Commissioner Becky Plattner announced on April 19 the she will be running for Lt. Governor in the 2012 election. In the announcement she stated: "...I have given this much thought...My focus will be on the 2012 election and I hope...I will be the next Lieutant Governor of Missouri."

She is still listed on the 2008 ballot, according the Sec. of State Robin Carnahan' web site. According the Mo Ethics Commission web site, no reports have been received about financial disclosure, direct expenditures, campaign/campaign committee report, or a statement of exemption. Can someone explain these apparent errors, oversights, ethical lapses and mixed messages or did I miss something in political science class?

Is Becky Plattner running for Lt. Governor this year and announcing her "re-election" campaign a month later? Has she withdrawn from the 2008 election? Is she stating she will not run commissioner again? Does she plan on running "hard" in 2012 and use 2008 as a 'rehearsal'? Does she plan on filing campaign finance reports required by law? Does she have any idea what she is doing?

-- Posted by modemocrat on Tue, May 6, 2008, at 10:31 PM

To Smokin' Cheetah, Kathy, River Ratt and all the others who have tried to "argue" with Jody.

He's not listening. He has an opinion and instead of stating it and then being quiet as I was taught - he just keeps on talking.

"It's like wrestling with a pig in the mud, pretty soon you realize the pig is enjoying it."

I'm just not sure how we will ever be able to discuss anything else again?

And now Jody will come back on bashing me. (Of course, note I am using my "real" name, not hiding behind a screen name.) He will post my subsidy information, which is public information. http://farm.ewg.org/farm/top_recips.php?...

Too bad he doesn't use it to inform, but instead holds it like a club. I really think he would get his point across better.

He will now call me a corporate farmer, bash my writing, etc. etc. He is what they call an "internet bully."

I do wonder if Jody ever watched the movie King Corn?

-- Posted by Marcia Gorrell on Tue, May 6, 2008, at 7:24 PM

You know, Ratty in The Wind and The Willows was a swell sort of rat. This River Ratt fellow there in Marshall, MO. must have access to wacky tobaccy or is smoking corn silk.

Have you read each and every post I've made (yeah, there are a bunch of 'em!) because I've covered your question. Here's your answer, AGAIN, http://www.ewg.org/about

Next (because I've been there and done that) will come the wails of "LIAR! YOU CANNOT TRUST WHAT HE'S SAYING!" Go fly a kite.

The issue is that Farm Subsidy program in the USA is BUSTED. Are we going to fix it or let it continue to take advantage of not only the tax paying U.S. citizen, but the true family farmer who doesn't get a single penny from this boondoggle of a program.

It's fun seeing these "farm family" wagons circle. I admit it. Not yet has a single post been made which cites the stunning data I have provided you. Perhaps it's due to the poor, rural school system whose budget is eclipsed by these farm give away deallybobs?

By the way, is Becky Plattner still in office there in Saline County Missouri? I ask because I find that in 2006 while running for re-election she had been the "....presiding commissioner of Saline County for four years....". Was she re-elected?

Think maybe there was a reason she had been the boss lady of the County? Check it out at:

http://farm.ewg.org/farm/persondetail.ph...

If she's part of that Plattner operation, we find a total for the past ten years coming in at $1,121,322.00.

Wait! Now I'm finding this: "Gov. Matt Blunt today appointed Becky L. Plattner (D) to the Missouri Conservation Commission." That was August 7, 2007 ( http://www.gov.mo.gov/cgi-bin/coranto/vi... ).

Woops! That same article indicates she's still running Saline County Missouri! My, my, my! Must be really hard and tiring work; but someone who "cares" has got to do it, I guess. The article continues: "Ms. Plattner, 49 of Grand Pass, is the presiding commissioner in Saline County and serves as financial manager for Plattner Brothers L.L.C. Custom Farming. She has served as a consultant to the Grand Pass Special Road District, Grand Pass Pump Levy District....". Sakes alive! This is one busy woman.

But, but, but....wait....what about the drug problem Mr. Post noted when he said a lot of young people there in Saline County Missouri had "...."grown up in an environment of drug use." ? He wanted the county to deal with that. Did it? (I doubt it.). What? This Chris Post must have had some dang subversive ideas. This very paper wrote:

'An issue that Post said is important to him is the fact that young people leave Saline County for other areas which have more opportunities. Post said he would fight this trend by trying to develop more opportunities for young people to work by promoting white-collar jobs -- such as technology, engineering and accounting.

"He said that Saline County has done a good job in attracting industrial parks, but improvements could be made in bringing tech parks to the county. He said that there "is no reason Saline County could not become a tech center of the Midwest," adding there aren't any "tech parks" within an hour of Marshall.

"Post also said young people not only need a way to make money, but a place to spend money as well. Post said that he wants to change this by promoting retail expansion." (July 27, 2006) ( http://www.marshallnews.com/story/116204... )

Isn't it funny how the government works and how the same old same old just keeps on trucking......??!!

-- Posted by Jody on Tue, May 6, 2008, at 6:52 PM

I would like to bring up another topic. Why is it that so many people locally ask for services from the library and then don't attend or participate? As the director, I received many requests (in our suggestion box and via the internet) for small business help and entrepreneurial support in the form of programs and materials. I did that. There is now a business center in the library with a laptop computer dedicated to research. Last night, the MU Extension Service was kind enough to have a workshop on starting your own business.

So far, I have only seen three people use the computer and none of them were researching business. Only 2 people showed up to last night's workshop.

I've been to the State of Saline County events where it seems everyone spends their time whining about what's wrong without ever concentrating on how to fix it.

I've made efforts to contact people about some ways to revitalize the square -- based on my experience as the assistant director of Downtown Columbia and as director of Downtown Champaign. No one answers my phone calls.

I am trying hard to understand this way of approaching things. I always believed that if you see a problem, you find ways to fix it. Apparently that's not the way they do things in Saline County. Guess it's more fun to waste time whining.

-- Posted by Amy Crump on Tue, May 6, 2008, at 6:27 PM

Vote for David Cook (from Blue Springs, MO)on American Idol tonight! My daughter was friends with David in high school. Not only is he enormously talented, he is also one really nice guy! Go David!

-- Posted by teachers_wife on Tue, May 6, 2008, at 5:42 PM

To NanaDot:

You have missed the point entirely and I apologize for stepping on your toes. My point is that it seems unreasonable for one group of recipients of public aid to have their identity protected and another group of recipients to have their names and amounts published on the web.

And don't kid yourself into believing that there are no strings attached to the funds that farmers recieve.

-- Posted by River Ratt on Tue, May 6, 2008, at 5:15 PM

To Jody:

Lets be honest here. I have met Ken Cook. I believe he is a graduate of the University of Missouri. I have read his work extensively. Any time I want to read the thoughts of an environmental wacko, I turn to Ken Cook. But the honest answer is that it doesn't promote his agenda. When something doesn't promote your personal agenda one excuse is as good as another.

I still want to know why when you referred earlier to something that EWG did in 2002 you referred to the organization as "we". You said "In 2002, we founded the EWG Action Fund, a 501(c)(4) organization that advocates on Capitol Hill for health-protective and subsidy-shifting policies."

Are you being honest now when you say you have no affiliation with them or were you being honest then when you referred to them as "we"

-- Posted by River Ratt on Tue, May 6, 2008, at 5:07 PM

Aw shucks, Eric. And here I thought I was getting to understand the "small town" newspaper you were edumacating me about when I wrote about reporter and column objectivity and you scolded me with:

"We're a small paper. Our reporters have to be very nimble. They write stories about anything and everything. They juggle notebooks and cameras. They stuff ads in the paper. We aren't big enough to hire our own opinion columnists. We do that ourselves, too." Which all but gives carte blanche for these staffers to do as they want....or that's how I read it. Oh well. Email me the rule book, 'k? Oh yeah, they're probably isn't one. *shrug*

So, for the poster noting that recipients of disability benefits and other types of assistance are *NOT* public record, I provide you in an ever so kindly way a web link where you can read why that does not happen:

http://www.mulchblog.com/2007/03/why_don...

Now, to take a part of it (....and I'll be CERTAIN to put in the quote marks correctly!) here we go. The stuff will be about Food Stamps and such....and remember....the food stamp program is but another "market" for the farmer: Were the food stamp program to shut down today, poor people would continue to eat; it's Agribusiness and the "family farmer" who would find some of their "markets" shrinking:

"The question of who is receiving food stamps might be of policy interest if the benefits that taxpayers provide under the program varied as dramatically as they do under the farm subsidy programs; but they don't. Some of the most important questions in farm policy arise precisely from the vast disparities we see across farm subsidy recipients, due to differences in what they produce (most farmers collecting no subsidies); farm size; and questions surrounding the income and wealth of the recipients (questions our database cannot answer)."

http://www.mulchblog.com/2007/03/why_don...

There is a lot more information there, too. However, at this point, I doubt any of the big hitters read any of it. They've got the wagons there in Marshall, MO. fairly well circled to protect that cash flow. Oh well.

-- Posted by Jody on Tue, May 6, 2008, at 4:21 PM

Steak and fancy wine with ADM? Doggone it, I must have missed that invitation. Oh, wait, I know! It got lost in the mail.

Again, Jody, you descend to the personal attack on those who disagree with you.

This is what I find objectionable. Over and over again, this is your tactic. If you can't get agreement with your position, out comes the club. If your argument doesn't sway your opponent, you start swinging from the heels.

I have to admire your persistence, if nothing else.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, May 6, 2008, at 3:44 PM

No, I am not paid one thin dime by EWG or anyone else. I do this because I believe in it. I do contribute money to EWG. Haven't even met a single person associated with EWG...one of the great aspects of the internet. I HAVE met and dined with Bob Dole many a time as well as George McGovern and some other boys from the U.S. Senate....but that was just for show. Even met McCain a couple of times. Big deal. I'd LIKE to meet the EWG guys....they're a lot more effective than the politicians I've eaten with!

If you've troubled yourself to look around the EWG website http://www.ewg.org you will see I have merely copy and pasted data and statements from the site....perhaps without quotes....but hey....we're just a common folk....ain't necessary to be "technical".

I'm just a crusty old geezer who believes in "paying forward". Ya reap what ya sew....ain't that how it goes.....errr...went?

Silas Marner is my hero.

-- Posted by Jody on Tue, May 6, 2008, at 3:32 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Actually, attribution is not just a technicality. It's a matter of intellectual honesty. If you don't quote or in some way mark or label which words come from another source, people may assume them come from you. We know the data comes from elsewhere, but we need to know who's speaking. Even if the source of information wants it disseminated and doesn't mind you copying and pasting, most sources want and deserve credit for their work.

Hey folks,

Don't blame Jody. Jody is an activist hired by EWG to create hate and discontent in rural America. Jody is paid to find blogs run by small town newspapers and get the EWG word out there. The EWG website has been in existance for several years. The information on it is public information and the public has a right to know it.

EWG is a radical leftist organization. They believe that global warming is real and is caused only and totally by humans. They believe in transferance of wealth by the government. They just don't want farmers to be a recipient of that transferance.

Maybe EWG, if they are really interested in protecting the taxpayer interest, would find and post a list of recipients of welfare payments, food stamps, disability payments, and so many good social programs. If we are amazed at what farmers are getting I bet it would be just as entertaining to know which of our neighbors are getting disability checks each month. Hey folks, it is easier than you think. But is the payee information public? That might violate someone's privacy.

-- Posted by River Ratt on Tue, May 6, 2008, at 3:18 PM

Great!

One vote from Kathy Fairchild, late of Agribusiness, who votes that the Farm Subisdy System of the USA which provides billions of dollars per year to Agribusiness is not broken and does not need fixing. She also votes that the 2/3 of family farmers (which does not include fruit or vegetable "family farmers) who do not get subsidies are not getting the shaft and that everything is just peachy keen in rural America. She also votes that it's just fine for the state of Missouri (a Right To Work state which means it's anti-union) to be #10 in receipt of said subsidies is something to be proud of. I'll bet she has steak and fancy wine with the ADM folks, but I could be wrong. Great! Now we're getting somewhere.

-- Posted by Jody on Tue, May 6, 2008, at 3:15 PM

You're absolutely right, Jody, I do collect a pension check, although its "fatness" might be in some question.

Trust me when I say your posts caused no tears. I will say again that you have the right to give your opinion, but will also stress again that others are free to agree OR DISAGREE.

"Can people on this message board agree the Farm Subsidy program is broken and needs to be repaired?"

Absolutely - and we can disagree, too.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, May 6, 2008, at 2:56 PM

Kathy Fairchild:

You noted you were allied with Argibusiness; probably getting a nice, fat pension check for doing same and also work with the column writer who suggested King Corn (the documentary) was all BS and got so upset with tears, the sky began to rain. That's enough for me to figure out the chances of an objective reality reaching out and touching the likes of you were slim to none.

I did not come here to offer a solution. I have one, but it's my own and I don't care to share it. You would not like it, needless to say (It centers around taking land and giving it to others; the creation of collective farming; and sharing the wealth.)

Irrespective, I came here to point out a problem, ask questions and educate....not fix. As I have posted several times before, first things first. The first aspect to any problem is its identification. How'm I doing? By my yardstick, I'd say pretty good!

Can people on this message board agree the Farm Subsidy program is broken and needs to be repaired? That's the starting point. Next is "brainstorming" as to the best way to repair it. It's called "participatory democracy" where everyone's ideas are considered no matter how seemingly odd; where no one is excluded; and where the bankers, the land holders, the petroleum industry (don't they make the fertilizer?) and other aspects of corporate America don't beat up the little guy.

And as for the remarks about the Bricklayers having a union (GOOD MOVE!), I'd say the lobbyists in Washington for Agribusiness pretty much make up a nice, big Union for the "family farms" out your way.

What's the regular guy make of that? The one's making $6.00 per hour at McDonald's or the bank teller pulling in...what....$8.00 per hour?

-- Posted by Jody on Tue, May 6, 2008, at 2:46 PM

get a clue: I'm not quite sure what it is you want me to do. Jody has been quite vocal in the last several days. He has a right to his opinion, as you do and as I do. The subject he raised is one of interest to me, so I have responded. There are plenty of people here who create a stir and plenty who tell their stories. Again, they have the right to do so. Jody is the one who was resentful that he was asked to tell us something about himself; he's expressed his indignation on that subject more than once.

If you tell someone something and present it as a fact, the person you tell has a right to ask you how you know it and on what basis you believe it. Jody didn't like that.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, May 6, 2008, at 2:38 PM

So, Kathy let me get this straight. It is okay for OTHERS to post crap to create a "stir" , or just to get under peoples skin, and to bring attention to themselves but NOT OKAY for someone to post their story and their oppinions? Boy, how wrong is that? Maybe you should get off your high horse and out of your desk chair. Think about what you say. Maybe you should comment back to others oppinions with just as much antimosity as you did Jody's!

Hmmmm, wonder who I am refering to?

-- Posted by get a clue on Tue, May 6, 2008, at 2:19 PM

Oh, golly gosh, Jody, I forgot to make it clear that I do not currently work for the largest farm equipment manufacturer in the world - I am retired from said corporation, and am now employed with this newspaper. I am proud of my association with both.

I completely agree with Cheetah - you decided to post your opinion and create a stir. I have no argument with that at all - certainly it's your right to do that.

But it must be said - you started the party and after administering a thorough spanking of Saline County and its hard-working farm families, you are resentful of our request that you state your qualifications for so doing.

We have your information, we know your opinion, many of us disagree with you, and have good reasons for doing so. What else is there to say?

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, May 6, 2008, at 1:58 PM

Thanks, RiverRatt, for a cogent question.

Didn't you see what the Queen Bee of Marshall stated via song:

"...'cause the truth remains that no one wants to know."

Concluding, I provide all with this parting and ever so applicable ole timey voice (have the speakers on):

http://townie1.homestead.com/files/fooli...

-- Posted by Jody on Tue, May 6, 2008, at 12:03 PM

Hey, River Rat...

I like your post name! I grew up round the rivers myself. (Assuming by your name, you may live by the Mighty MO.)

I miss camping on the sand bars, waking up wet, from the barges passing by. We would boat by those who's homes were just a climb away from the water and met the greatest people.

For me... things are so different now. How my parents/ grandparents found the time and means to give me those wonderful memories on the river, I haven't been able to give my children. We camp, ALOT! Just not able to get out on the water.

-- Posted by nomad on Tue, May 6, 2008, at 11:57 AM

Jody:

In an earlier post you said the following:

"In 2002, we founded the EWG Action Fund, a 501(c)(4) organization that advocates on Capitol Hill for health-protective and subsidy-shifting policies."

We? Are you part of EWG? If so, why don't you explain the goal of EWG in exposing the amount of subsidies recieved by agriculture, not to have those subsidies removed, but to have those funds redirected to such programs as CRP. Then all you have to do is look at the northern two tiers of counties in Missouri to see what a great program CRP is. When those farmers enrolled much of their land in CRP in the late 1980s, the economies of those counties were devestated. For CRP you don't need implement dealers, feed companies, fertilizer companies, grain elevators and farm supply stores and all of the jobs they bring to a community.

After CRP wrecked the economies in Mercer, Putnam, Worth, Grundy, and Sullivan counties, those communities welcomed wth open arms Premium Standard Farms, and now they get to live with factory hog farms. That is the result of the farm policy that EWG advocates.

-- Posted by River Ratt on Tue, May 6, 2008, at 10:48 AM

I love it!

Smokin' Cheetah:

YOU speak for NOONE but YOURSELF. I was very aware when YOU asked about my PERSONAL details that YOU were looking for a KNIFE to STAB ME with. YOU are not a problem solver; YOU are not a potentate; YOU are not a sage; YOU have YET to address the very issue of just how broke the Farm Subsidy System is; YOU prefer to focus on FORM over FUNCTION; YOU are a name caller.

The farm subsidy system in this nation is broken. It needs to be repaired. Rural America depends on it. If it is not repaired, the death of one small town after another will continue; rural poverty will grow; people will suffer.

Oh, sure...I've heard of that fellow. You heard of this fellow, Robert Zimmerman? He wrote something for YOU. I won't post the complete stuff, but here's a sample:

Well, you walk into the room

Like a camel and then you frown

You put your eyes in your pocket

And your nose on the ground

There ought to be a law

Against you comin' around

You should be made

To wear earphones

Because something is happening here

But you don't know what it is

Do you, Smokin' Cheetah?

Tah, tah!

-- Posted by Jody on Tue, May 6, 2008, at 10:01 AM

Jody,

The incompetent with nothing to do can still make a mess of it.

(Laurence J. Peter)

And I am gainfully employed. I just work different hours than some. Of course, you aren't contributing to the workforce (or anything constructive) anymore, as demonstrated by your ability to sit on the computer all day and hand out potshots.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Tue, May 6, 2008, at 9:41 AM

BD42,

What? The "aginners" are out in force this am cuz the working stiff is at work and ain't got access to a computer? What's your story? You married to a wealthy farmer or just a semi-wealthy farmer? Maybe you're married to the owner of the "co-op" or the feed store?

We know Ms. Fairchild is employed via the business of agriculutural (per her remarks)...That cat person (Smokin' Cheetha) out here practicing grade b psycho babble and pointing fingers.....and yet no one is disputing the reality that the farm subsidy system in the USA is BROKEN and needs to be repaired?

I don't get it.....WAIT: Yes, I do! "We Have Met The Enemy and He Is Us". Pogo's a pretty smart character, isn't he?

-- Posted by Jody on Tue, May 6, 2008, at 9:23 AM

Jody,

Realize that if you have time to whine and complain about something then you have the time to do something about it.

(Anthony J. D'Angelo)

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Tue, May 6, 2008, at 9:15 AM

Most Excellent, Eric! Thanks! (Needless to say the folks in Saline County Kansas get to have these fun exchanges with me also. The farmers are peeved. Pretty much the same wherever the money is going. Iowa posts are particularly nasty. The one's from Minnessota are very amusing.).

If you care to delete my post, I'll repair it as I've got the text saved.

Thanks again!

http://farm.ewg.org/farm/top_recips.php?...

-- Posted by Jody on Tue, May 6, 2008, at 9:11 AM

What's your story, Smokin' Cheetah? You the "voice of reason" in Saline County Missouri?

You're way off target about the purpose behind making these posts and providing links. I do it all day long in hundreds of small town, rural papers which have on-line access in between day trading and social stuff....not to mention time out for vices!

"You're jaded". My experience has been that people who make "you" statements, not making "I" statements, do so because there is no "I"; that the person making the "you" statement, typcially, has little insight.

Ya don't need to worry about little ole me and my perspective on life. I enjoy what I do; don't "...feel sorry...." in the slightest for my long dead Daddy and Mom; know they gave me a good life but also know that my old man was right when he said "Get out of this hick town; the City is for you...". Boy and how!

I like to look at these small little burgs; recollect just how controlling and myopic they really are when you get right down to it; and realize I have the best of both worlds given I am fortunate enough to own in both the City and the Country and outside the USA. These postings are kinda sorta my way of "paying it forward", but I do own they're a source of amusement for me as well; Particularly when the mud starts getting thrown.

It's a funny thing, Smokin' Cheetah....sometimes these postings denigrate to "...getting personal...". Trust me: I can sling it with the best of 'em.

However, the point still remains that the Farm Subsidy system in the USA is broken. Them that has gets!

(For those just now tuning in: Want to see how much money is flowing into Saline County farmers? OK! Just click on this link!!

http://farm.ewg.org/farm/top_recips.php?...

-- Posted by Jody on Tue, May 6, 2008, at 8:37 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
I think the link you meant to post is

http://farm.ewg.org/farm/top_recips.php?...

The one above is for Saline County, Kansas.

Jody - seems to me you have described how anybody with any sense does any tax return, "using every single line of the IRS tax code to figure out ways to reduce tax liability." Taxes are necessary, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't take at least legal advantage of breaks to which we are legally entitled, does it? Tax cheating is another matter, but criticizing someone, anyone, for taking maximum advantage of their position, to enhance their personal bottom line is more than a little off the mark.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, May 6, 2008, at 7:52 AM

landreth:

Excellent point!: "there are a lot of comments on the farmer driving the nice new diesel trucks, but did anyone stop to think that they are actually one of the farmers equiptment."

And because they're "equipment" the payment on the thing is a corporation tax deduction; the depreciation on the thing is a corporation tax deduction; the fuel used in the thing is a corporatioin tax deduction (how many farmers running red diesel in 'em?); how many using bio-diesel? (my money says NONE); and on and on and on. Ain't that the way a "corporation" works: Using every single line of the IRS tax code to figure out ways to reduce tax liability and enhance that glory road bottom line?! Monkey see.....monkey do.

It's a great Nation!

-- Posted by Jody on Tue, May 6, 2008, at 7:26 AM

Many a meal tasted better the second day, especially if initially prepared by a good cook. If I am serving up leftovers, at least they are of top quality. (In many cases, much better than I could present.)

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Tue, May 6, 2008, at 5:59 AM

Boo hoo JJ. Wear your big boy panties when you come in here.

And the only thing that JJ serves up is crap.

Mr. Crump, could you please delete all the comments that JJ has made where he has personally attacked anyone by trying to make them look inferior to him?

Boooooooooooo hooooooooooooooo! :(

-- Posted by get a clue on Tue, May 6, 2008, at 1:57 AM

Who was that feller? He come a ridin into town and pert nigh tore it up. He went a tearin down Main Street. Some lined up on one side of the street,some on the tuther. He kicked up so much dust folks could'n even see each other right smart fur awhile. Went to yellin at each other. Kinda like the dust had stopped up there ears too. Wull the dust cleared an he was gone. Folks wiped thur eyes, cleaned out thur ears. Sumbuddy says "hear tell his family wus wiped out by wolves...long time ago". Sum un else says "Jody huh?" "Naw that un wus Paladin." "Yup, or the Lone Ranger." Thing is whole lot a folk commenced a scratchin they heads, got to thinkin. Sum said they hurd a small voice yellin '*** back Shane'.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, May 5, 2008, at 11:51 PM

there are a lot of comments on the farmer driving the nice new diesel trucks, but did anyone stop to think that they are actually one of the farmers equiptment. they get around better than a regular gas engine, pull the necessary trailers better, get better fuel milage, and last longer

-- Posted by landreth on Mon, May 5, 2008, at 10:11 PM

kt-01, I read you post about farmers having their farms, houses and equipment handed down to them for nothing. You couldn't be further from the truth is you tried.

Case in point. 1980, old man Detring dies, he's 86. His son inherits the farm and has to borrow money to pay the estate inheritance tax. Son is 64 and dies of a heart attack six months later. His son is 42 and inherits the farm. He then has to borrow money to pay off the farm and his estate inheritance taxes. Now the farm that was originally free and clear has a debt of 70% against it. I think you'll see that they don't have everything handed to the free and clear.

Finally, the greater portion of a farmers net worth is in land. The last time I checked no one was eating dirt.

-- Posted by John Q. on Mon, May 5, 2008, at 10:02 PM

at least JJ doesn't serve leftovers . . .

-- Posted by Eff Ess on Mon, May 5, 2008, at 9:31 PM

How you like me now? I could dish this out all week, just like others on this site. The difference is that I know this truth:

"It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought stupid, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt" Mark Reuter

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Mon, May 5, 2008, at 9:28 PM

I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell.

(Harry Truman)

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Mon, May 5, 2008, at 9:25 PM

The freedom of speech is worthless without the freedom of offensive speech. Goebbels and Himmler were for freedom of speech that was inoffensive to the state.

(Noam Chomsky)

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Mon, May 5, 2008, at 9:23 PM

The first person to hurl an insult instead of a stone was the founder of civilization.

(Sigmund Freud)

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Mon, May 5, 2008, at 9:20 PM

Jody,

It is only prudent to never place complete confidence in that by which we have even once been deceived. (Descartes)

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Mon, May 5, 2008, at 8:57 PM

Jody is probably just Jody Julius Gates.

-- Posted by Eff Ess on Mon, May 5, 2008, at 8:00 PM

BD42-

You're the kind of poster that pours gasoline on a fire like me. Posters like you are what keep me around, frankly and demonstrate I'm making my point.

Clearly the facts are bugging you and maybe even perhaps getting to you a might bit. I don't know....and I don't care.

Here's a good one for you:

"Popularity is the sure sign of mediocrity..." (George Bernard Shaw)

-- Posted by Jody on Mon, May 5, 2008, at 8:00 PM

Jody spake thusly:

" ... sanctimonious nature of what is supposed to be an objective newspaper column which then goes way off any manner of journalistic standard by '...being personal...' "

It's perfectly fine to disagree with the opinions expressed by a columnist or blogger, that's pretty much routine, but you should understand that both formats are specifically intended to allow people (including journalists!) a place to express their opinions, including personal opinions (is there any other kind?).

Marcia's column may have conflicted with your views but it did not violate journalistic standards.

Possibly you've mistaken us for a different type of operation (I'm guessing you've never been to Saline County). We're a small paper. Our reporters have to be very nimble. They write stories about anything and everything. They juggle notebooks and cameras. They stuff ads in the paper. We aren't big enough to hire our own opinion columnists. We do that ourselves, too.

You've taught me much in the past few days. This is an area in which I may be able to return the favor...

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Mon, May 5, 2008, at 7:53 PM

BD42:

Isn't that what they said about John Adams (well, they said it in "1776" the musical, anyway)? And he was a Founding Father!

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Mon, May 5, 2008, at 7:42 PM

Jody,

Why don't you just shut the hell up? You're obnoxious and disliked.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Mon, May 5, 2008, at 7:40 PM

Jody says: "Am I wrong in thinking that folks had no clue this stuff was out for public scrutiny if only one knew where to go?"

I didn't know it was there. I'm glad you posted the source of information. I think it's interesting. The data doesn't proved to me the same thing it proves to you, but that's OK.

It wasn't a big secret, though. I've talked to people around here who were well aware of the subsidy data site.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Mon, May 5, 2008, at 7:36 PM

Eric:

I'm going to do this Ricky Ricardo 'splainin' one last to you so you can get off the dime:

I NEVER TARGETED one family. I posted public statistics on one guy who I wasn't even certain was even related to your columnist. Same last names don't amount to much, but I own I thought I was close. The stuff I posted, again, is public record and the sanctimonious nature of what is supposed to be an objective newspaper column which then goes way off any manner of journalistic standard by "...being personal..." was the final straw. After I read that pabulum, it struck me that some facts needed to be revealed.

Am I wrong in thinking that folks had no clue this stuff was out for public scrutiny if only one knew where to go? My money says the local Grange has been having a lot to chew on these past several days! No?

I inform, from the data base, hundreds of rural American's just what's going on in their little neck of the woods all over the USA via these on line forums. I have yet to "win a friend" amongst the folks who get the money! Most want to skin me alive. I'll live.

I sorta like Twain, too. Here's one right back at you: "Familiarity breeds contempt. How accurate that is. The reason we hold truth in such respect is because we have so little opportunity to get familiar with it."

- Notebook, 1898

-- Posted by Jody on Mon, May 5, 2008, at 7:19 PM

Jody,

It is eye opening to come here and read truth and fact from someone that has lived it themselves.

A breath of fresh air from reading all the crap that JJ tries to force down peoples throats.

I commend you for sharring your story and love to hear more from you.

-- Posted by get a clue on Mon, May 5, 2008, at 7:02 PM

"Why my personal life is of import escapes me."

Jody,

You say that facts is facts, that you are objectively presenting factual data that we should be persuaded by or we're idiots -- and seem to get in a twist when people get "emotive" on you.

But *how we use facts* matters as much as the facts themselves. Remember Mark Twain's famous quip on the subject? "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." Like guns, facts don't hurt people. But if you pick up a fact and pull the trigger, well...

When you use facts in an attempt to discredit and embarrass specific people, then it's perceived as a personal attack, whether you meant it that way or not. If you're really mystified by the response you're being mighty naive.

And when you attempt to discredit someone, they naturally want to know who's doing the discrediting. *You* have made credibility an issue, so why are you surprised to find that you are expected to divulge a little of your own history?

It's mighty easy to hide behind a facade of pseudonymity and cast stinging aspersions.

But I do thank you for telling us about your experiences with farming. It adds to your credibility to know your story, to know that you have first-hand experience not only with farming but with the bitterness of clinging to principles that new economies seem to be trampling as they rush past.

Sometimes people form their stubbornest opinions on things they know least about.

Not the case with you, obviously.

But please don't be surprised that people want to know your story. My wife has a bumper sticker on our car: "The shortest distance between people is a story." Facts are fine, but humans do not live -- or think -- on facts alone.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Mon, May 5, 2008, at 6:48 PM

Smokin' Cheetah:

YES.

I GREW UP on a Jayhawk farm (Kansas is #2 in the nation in receiving farm subsidy payments; Missouri is a close #10; that's BIG MONEY). See can you find Kinsley, Kansas on the map. I'm a 5th generation REAL farm family hick hayseed.

Now for the "generalized rant" (this ain't aimed at anyone in particular, but if the shoe fits ....put it on....):

My Dad and Mom and us kids worked the farm right alongside each other. We ate chicken, not steak. I know all about the more affluent "family farmer" land grabbing from the smaller farmer; I know about and lived with the hick, small town bankers playing favorites with the select few. I watched my Dad work himself to death and my Mom was a close 2nd given what was going on throughout the '80's. I watched my Dad as he, essentially, just gave up...worn up from fighting and scratching as the neighbor farmers got loans and subsidies and "family money" with their fancy brand new combines and tractors and trucks and blah, blah, blah, blah. I know what it's like to work summers on a custom combine crew making our way up from Kansas to Montana. Those were fancy combines too! They had a/c, stereos, and I'll bet a dang beer dispenser was somewhere around.

I posted this stuff earlier and it was taken down. Why my personal life is of import escapes me. People simply don't like to read the facts. They "mentally argue" when said facts differ with their thought processes; and I'm talking about the facts relative to farm subsidies. They're FACTS, not opinions. That is what I have provided you as a community to work with.

More, I am an "old man"....way past 50 and that's all I'll say. I been to Viet Nam and back; it was a great little vacation for 18mos. back in the early '70's. I fought one lie and for the rest of my life, that shall be enough.

Go ahead, say my old man was a bad business man. He wasn't. He was honest and refused to take a dime of money from the government. Stupid? Perhaps. I didn't understand what he and my Mom were talking about when "...taking that **** welfare from the Extension...." was being discussed when I was still living at home. I sure as heck do now....and been knowing for many, many years and I been seeing it get nothing but worse and greedier.

The system is broken and anyone who suggests it's just swell is pure D stupid and want US to be even stupider. It's up to you all to figure out if the farmer in the dell needs that money. Remember 2/3 of farmers across the USA don't get penny one and most of those that DO get the money get less than a couple hundred bucks a year.

Corporate farms? Yeah, ADM is a big corporate farm but one that is 6000 acres is dang close. Why do "local farmers" want to be in bed with the likes of ADM? What a hoot to suggest it is not!

Rural America got a lot of problems...a LOT...from dying towns and migration to poverty that is unseen and not recognized. The money spent on give away subsidy programs could be spent to help rebuild rural America. It ain't now. If the people of Saline County Missouri like a handful of families telling you what to do, when to do it, how to do it and if to do it because they control the banks, the money, the paper, blah, blah, blah, you have noone to blame but yourselves. You have the power to reverse the bassackward program. I suggest you use it and start sending that money to where it's needed.

"The payments now account for nearly half of the nation's expanding agricultural subsidy system, a complex web that has little basis in fairness or efficiency. What began in the 1930s as a limited safety net for working farmers has swollen into a far-flung infrastructure of entitlements that has cost $172 billion over the past decade. In 2005 alone, when pretax farm profits were at a near-record $72 billion, the federal government handed out more than $25 billion in aid, almost 50 percent more than the amount it pays to families receiving welfare." ( http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con... )

-- Posted by Jody on Mon, May 5, 2008, at 6:24 PM

Bravo, Cheetah - as usual, the voice of reason.

When I knew less about farming myself, I thought it must be a wonderful life - pictured myself bustling around the farm house, canning and so forth ... a very rosy and "romantic" vision that any farmer I know would laugh at today.

It's a tough life, depending on wind and weather to carry you - or to destroy you. I cannot imagine what the average farmer goes through mentally during times of drought, watching a crop shrivel to dust and die while he can do nothing at all to stop it.

My 30+ years working for the world's largest agricultural manufacturer taught this city girl a great deal - and made me realize there is a lot more I do not know. But it did teach me that American farmers are not standing around twiddling their thumbs and waiting for the next "handout." We are lucky, all of us, that they are willing to take a gamble on Mother Nature each and every year and when they lose, as they sometimes do, to be willing to do it again the very next year. Their optimism, and dogged determination, puts food on the table every day.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Mon, May 5, 2008, at 5:04 PM

well muffin thats exactly what i said. I dont understand too much about farming. All i know is what i see. Generations of farmers who have had there land,homes and many other things handed down to them for free. Not having to pay for there homes or anything. I wish i was fortunate enough to have lived here all my life and had a farm handed down to me like that so i can live rent free and own my own home. Desptite the fact my husband made 65 grand last year with his union job,and all the heath and retirement benifits my family recieves for his hard earned work. we still pay for those beifits right out of his check every week. So it does come at a price. Its not free we pay into that. its not just givin to us.

Then when the weather hits hard,it freezes,it rains its too hot to cold or the economy stops building we get no paycheck. and we dont get free money try living on unemployment for three months with a family of 5 dear. u cant do it.If it wernt for my husband and the bricklayers unions alot of people would not be gambiling in those casinos they like to visit and get drunk in so much,nor would there be a place for all the criminals to go when crap happens,nor would there be banks,walmarts,baseball staduims or most of kc and any other big city in the country built. and wed all be living in clay houses. My husbands job is just as important as the farmers if not more they may feed part of the country but we build all of it.

-- Posted by kt_01 on Mon, May 5, 2008, at 4:31 PM

Opin, Muffin, and the ever-popular What the...: Excellent points from all of you. especially the mention of second jobs. I read a column in another newspaper a few years ago about how difficult it is to find anyone at home during the day at many farms. It's because BOTH husband and wife are working second jobs. American farmers are hard-working people who don't deserve being trashed because they receive subsidies so the people in the U.S., and, it should be mentioned, millions of people in the rest of the world can eat.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Mon, May 5, 2008, at 4:08 PM

I work with a lot of "farmers". Meaning when I see them where I work (non farming industry) it is because they are at thier second job. Most farmers today are forced to work a second job and as far as the govt helping them out, I'd much rather see my tax dollars going to help a Saline Co. farmer then shipped off to Baghdad to be siphoned away by the likes of Haliburton and KBR!

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, May 5, 2008, at 3:55 PM

Very well said Muffin!

Jody - you make so many generalizations that just seem unlikely. Maybe some farmers have 'toys' as you put it. But, what you do not state is that lots of them have worked on the farm since they could walk. (Or shortly thereafter). So, lots of them have had they've had plenty of time to save up for those 'toys.' Bet if we looked at your house, we'd see a toy or two. So, just because they're farmers they don't deserve them??!?

Maybe you don't realize what it takes to keep a farm running well. Do you really think that $40,000 a year (since that's the highest amt I saw) really makes them rich? I doubt it even pays for the seed for some of these farmers. I think you'd be surprised at what they bring home per month as 'profit.' And working 6 months of the year? Yeah right!!! Try every single day if they have lifestock! No days off there!!! And definitely more than 6 months even if just crop farmers - it doesn't end when planting and harvesting ends!!!

I'd hate to see what happens if you succeed in cutting these payments off. Where would we get crops? Meat? How much higher can beef go? You might just get your answer!

-- Posted by opin on Mon, May 5, 2008, at 3:37 PM

As the holder of a mortgage on my own house, Jody, I would hardly suggest that everyone is debt-free and/or undeserving of help. What I AM suggesting is that your insistence on focusing on what farmers (who provide a service essential to us all) receive in subsidies without also providing information on how much debt they are carrying to provide that essential service is a very unfair and very unbalanced view of their financial circumstances.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Mon, May 5, 2008, at 2:52 PM

It is evident, kt_01, you do not understand farming. So, you plant your crop, it sprouts only to freeze, or you plant, cultivate and no rain. Who do you think pays for the replanting of the frozen crop or suffers from a weak harvest? Becuase the weather my not be favorable Mother Nature doesn't kick in funds, the seed dealers, diesel fuel providers, implement dealers and the like don't forgive your debt that season. Like your union brick layer you take the good with the bad.

Perhaps you have farmers confused with union workers, of which there are many. May be it is those union workers who are driving $40,000 trucks and have all the toys. As you say, they are paid well.

Must be nice to have a group to lobby for higher wages, better work conditions, better benefit packages. Bet you don't know what type of benefit package a farmer has.

-- Posted by Muffin on Mon, May 5, 2008, at 1:46 PM

Kathy Fairchild:

Are you suggesting that the other people in debt in Saline County are less important and therefore not deserving of free money for the valued work they do? Do you actually think that "family farmers" are the only one's in debt? It HAS been pointed out that these "family farms" have a lot of "toys", new cars and trucks, RV's, etc., etc., etc. Welfare for the rich! Ah....a grand program to be proud of.

Please read the other posts about this "circle the wagons" mentality relative to farm subsidies. Surely everyone should have equal opportunity for a hand out.

Remember MOST (2/3) family farms might get a couple hundred BUCKS per year from this tired out and disgusting program. Don't forget vegetable and fruit farmers aren't even included in the program, please.

-- Posted by Jody on Mon, May 5, 2008, at 1:26 PM

It's unfortunate the site you mention does not also mention the indebtedness of many farmers for their land, their equipment, feed, seed, fertilizer...that would strike me as only being fair.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Mon, May 5, 2008, at 1:18 PM

kt_01:

I meant to say Excellent Post to you and not that other person. My bad.

You've hit the nail on the head: Your husband works and yet when the weather prevents him from so doing, he don't get no subsidy. I guess it's his fault because he didn't inherit a "family farm".

I rather suspect (and hope) that the "family farmers" are MORTIFIED that all the free money they've been given is public record and anyone can take a look provided they're given the power (as in website) as to where to look.

The EWG is not a "hater of farmers" outfit. It's simply exposing just how BROKEN the Federal USDA farm subsidy system/problem really is.

However, if the community doesn't want to get involved by contacting Congress, it'll continue as status quos: You'll see them big fancy diesel trucks they're driving and you'll continue to have to listen to all the whining that is done about how poor they are. Oh really? Poor?

And the gaul of comparing the subsidy giveaway to Social Security! What a giggle!!

-- Posted by Jody on Mon, May 5, 2008, at 1:04 PM

Gal66, you go girl!

Your post opens up the discussion for those who don't "farm" and feel the need to understand why their salary or retail business doesn't get any money from the gubment because "...it's a bad retail year...".

The farmers are very skilled at the circle the wagon approach.

It's time for the regular folk of Saline County to contact their Congressperson (Ike Skelton) and ask for some free money, too. Better yet, suggest that the Farm Subsidy give aways need to be re-examined, at the VERY least.

If you think that these "farmers" don't have a strong connection with their Congressperson, you might want to reconsider that. My money says they might even be on first name basis and had one or two over to the "farm" for that nice corn fed STEAK dinner.

Me? I'll keep eating chicken and hamburger because that's what I can afford.

Send an email to Skelton...or maybe a fax. I'll help any and all who need email addresses or fax numbers. It's time the USA relook the farm giveaway program, isn't it?

Here's the link to see what your "neighbor" is getting in subsides. Please remember MOST farmers only get a couple hundred bucks a year. These guys in Saline County UNDERSTAND the system and work....rather well.

http://farm.ewg.org/farm/top_recips.php?...

Once you get to the link and you see a "family farm" name you're interested in, click on the name. After you get to the page with that "family farmer" as the subject....look a little lower for yet another link to click on so you can see how much moolah they have been GIVEN since 1996.....again....IT's FUN!!!!

-- Posted by Jody on Mon, May 5, 2008, at 12:51 PM

Excellent post, Ms. Fairchild. Here is some more information for the folks in Saline County to mull over from the EWG writings:

"We don't keep the money, it's not 'profit'," they'll say (farmers who receive the free money). "We just turn right around and pay it out to cover our expenses." Which expenses, they seem to believe, are higher than the urban majority (who "don't know where their food comes from") could possibly comprehend.

I've often wondered why so many farmers seem to think a New Yorker paying $2,300 a month for an efficiency (200 sq. ft. of living space), or a suburbanite buying a four dollar latte for the cup holder of her $40,000 SUV, will register shocked sympathy upon hearing that a combine (whatever that is) costs $180,000--when you couldn't touch a 1 BDR condo for that price on either coast. Someone's out of touch here, and I'm not sure its all of us who supposedly don't know milk doesn't come in a carton. My experience is just the opposite. I've seen many a farmer's eyes widen at the prices on a DC menu (though it must be said they invariably fight you for the check), and many a Beltway denizen drool over small-town real estate prices.

Nonetheless, this particular circling of the subsidy wagons amounts to saying that farm payments don't benefit the people or businesses who actually collect them from the taxpayer. The real beneficiaries, the argument goes, are the businesses farmers buy their inputs from, the banks that lend them money to own and operate their farms, the feedlots and grain conglomerates that buy the "cheap food" (or cotton) the subsidies pay farmers to grow in excess.

Translated to those of us in the paved world, this tortured defense amounts to saying that your salary isn't really paid to you, but to the bank that holds the note on your car or the mortgage on your home, or to the landlord who owns that $2,300-a-month efficiency you're renting. Will he ever fix the dishwasher? You're just the middleman, the pass through. After all, is it really your paycheck if most of it flies out the window to pay the cell phone, restaurant and dry cleaning bills, buy health insurance, keep your kid in college, or cover that vacation to Cancun?

No one knows how farmers who receive subsidies spend them, of course. No government rules stipulate how farmers must use their payments, any more than regulations out of Washington prescribe how seniors must spend their Social Security checks. Farm subsidies can be plowed into the farm or into a vacation home. It's no one's business but theirs.

-- Posted by Jody on Mon, May 5, 2008, at 12:41 PM

I hate to get in this farmer conversation but i having lived in farm country for only 5 years of my life and not undestanding to much about there way of life. I would like to know few things from what i have seen.

I never see a poor farmer. Why. There all driving brand new 40 thous doller trucks,lots of toys along with them like motorhomes,horses u name it. they seem to live way better than the rest of us for sure.

How much do they really work. 6 months out of the year maybe.

Im not bagging on them i would just like to know since you are talking about all the money the government gives them on top of all there hard work. If they have a bad crop its ok heres some taxpayer dollers to take care of your lives. and buy you a new truck.

My husband works 40 hours a week busting his butt as a union bricklayer in kansas city. he makes alot of money. But when the weather turns bad and he cant work no one gives us any money.and hes part of the workforce that builds this country. no ones taking care us his family when he cant build.

-- Posted by kt_01 on Mon, May 5, 2008, at 12:38 PM

Social Security and student loans aren't subsidies? Not intentionally, no.

But that's not the entire answer.

If I live for at least 5 years after I start collecting Social Security (which I am already eligible to do), I will have paid back every penny I put in. After that, additional payments are pretty much a subsidy, at least in my mind. And since I plan to live longer than another 5 years, as my parents did, it's not a small number of dollars.

That student loan I took 5 years ago? I got it at half the going rate for a conventional loan - the difference between the two rates absolutely amounts to a subsidy.

I guess whether it's a subsidy or not depends on whether you're the one paying it or receiving it. Or maybe for some, whether it's a farmer who's getting the money or someone else.

We all benefit in some way from a goodly portion of the tax money that winds up in government hands. I'm not all that thrilled to pay taxes, I do assure you, but putting it in the hands of farmers whose livelihoods feed us all doesn't seem like a bad thing to me.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Mon, May 5, 2008, at 11:52 AM

Why in the hell should farmers get subsidies?

I sure as hell don't get any for my retail business and I sure have not made a million dollars in the last 10 years.

-- Posted by Gal66 on Mon, May 5, 2008, at 10:38 AM

So, Jody, farmers aren't hard-working people? If not, please tell my father to stop putting in 12 or more hours a day!!! They work harder in any one season than most of us work all year!!!

-- Posted by opin on Mon, May 5, 2008, at 6:48 AM

Talea...talk about closed minded. I will make my point and go home. Whayyyyyyyyyyyy.

-- Posted by Cheese on Mon, May 5, 2008, at 1:05 AM

Oh, come on, Jody -- if you get a payment from the government for any reason, it's a subsidy.

Period.

I appreciate your discussion but I'm done with this conversation. You've made your points; I've made mine. We won't agree. And that's fine; that's America! Thank God.

-- Posted by talea on Mon, May 5, 2008, at 12:38 AM

talea--

Your post is the one that used the word "capitalism" and that being the case I provided you data on what a really capitialistic market place is all about. At least you note that the "family farmers" who take subsidy payments are junior members if not full fledged members of Corporate America:

A. Employment Security benefits are NOT a subsidy. That is a benefit for working for an employer.

B. Medicare and Social Security are NOT subsidies.

C. College grants and loans are NOT subsidies. Each REQUIRE a "means test": You must demonstrate you are eligible due to the family income.

The "Farm Subsidy Program" is broken. Anyone that refuses to recognize this reality is simply being...well...uniformed is the polite word I shall use. Evidently, you're not reading the facts and prefer a "circle the wagons" approach at the expense of the real family farmer. Given the meager amount most recipients collect--a few hundred bucks a year--subsidies can't possibly make most farmers rich (two-thirds of farmers collect no farm bill subsidies at all). Let's be clear. Farm subsidies go to, and benefit, the businesses and people who collect them, no matter what bills it helps them pay, no matter how bitterly or resentfully they pay them--with taxpayers' money.

Perpetuating the subsidy status quo, which would provide millions of dollars to a narrow minority of beneficiaries over the next five years at the expense of other farm bill constituencies at home and to our trade partners around the world is just wrong, and well, stupid. If Congress maintains the same spending allocations provided in 2002, over the next five years hundreds of thousands of farmers applying for USDA programs to share the cost of conservation practices will be turned away for lack of funds.

The nation's under-funded federal school lunch program will continue to serve nutritionally inadequate meals. Farmers growing fruits, vegetables and other unsubsidized crops, and a majority of livestock producers...will be bypassed by the farm bill once again while their industries face environmental challenges at home and economic competition in a globalized marketplace. Proponents of rural development and scientific research will have their program funds further strained, as rural areas lose businesses and population and the country loses more of its edge in agricultural knowledge.

The important policy questions in this farm bill cycle have much less to do with what becomes of subsidy payments than with who receives them, and why. Congress has sloppily decreed through the years that you can collect farm subsidies whether you really need them or just because they're there for the collecting. You'd be stupid not to partake either way.

It is suggested we as a Nation don't propose that only farm subsidies come under scrutiny. Many others have been and are being challenged--like royalty-free hardrock mining, nuclear energy, and many others. But it's commons sense to take a hard look at how we subsidize, and who, within agriculture. Society can surely have a smarter, fairer, more productive investment portfolio in farmers and rural America than the list you see on our Web site. Thanks for the post.

http://www.mulchblog.com/2007/06/full_di...

-- Posted by Jody on Mon, May 5, 2008, at 12:11 AM

Jody,

Subsidies are all over the place in our country. Have you ever been on unemployment, or had a parent on Medicare or Social Security? Ever had a kid get a grant for college?

Subsidy.

Major corporations get subsidies all the time, particularly from state and local governments. Otherwise, they threaten to leave and there are plenty of other cities/states willing to give away everything in order to get them. In the meantime, their execs continue to roll in the dough and the taxpayers get hosed. Enron, anyone?

Heck, the makers of King Corn got a subsidy from PBS and they've been very upfront about that. I don't begrudge them that at all. PBS bankrolls all sorts of films that would never see the light of day if corporate America had its way.

You seem to think farmers don't deserve subsidies at all. OK, that's your opinion. Mine is different -- and every bit as valid as yours. I'd rather subsidize food and domestically produced bio-fuel than big oil dependent on foreign governments.

I do believe farm subsidies should be revisited periodically to make sure we spend our money in the best way. I'm pretty sure Ms. Gorrell has made that point several times.

We all make choices.

-- Posted by talea on Sun, May 4, 2008, at 11:29 PM

for talea:

A true capitalist doesn't need a price support subsidy handout.

A true capitalist sinks or swims per the market place.

Suggest Adam Smith's writings are re-visited so capitalism can be understood. I know it's so much easier to think from emotions rather from the brain.

Oh....is there a subsidy somewhere for those people of Saline County, the state of Missouri....or heck....any where else in the USA where the gubment gives money to "...hard working people...."? Best I've been able to find is...well.....nothing. HIM THAT HAS, GETS!

-- Posted by Jody on Sun, May 4, 2008, at 8:48 PM

It seems from looking over the info on the farm subsidy site that there is an interesting loophole you can take advantage of.

Not only do you incorporate your farm and receive benefits, you can also receive benefits by having a farm in just your own name. One farm, two names...two subsidies!

What a great country!

-- Posted by Cheese on Sun, May 4, 2008, at 1:09 AM

Let me try and rephrase this post so it doesn't get deleted again.

I know welfare when I see it!

I encourage you to check out the list of area farmers that have received plenty of subsidy money over the last 12 years. Some in excess of $1 million dollars!

Interesting info:

http://tinyurl.com/6rzyp3

-- Posted by Cheese on Sun, May 4, 2008, at 12:51 AM

What I consider to be a corporate farm is owned by an absentee corporation that essentially contracts with family farmers for a product -- which the farmer has NO say over. Corporate farming has largely taken over the hog and chicken markets and made huge inroads into the vegetable markets. That's different than a family farmer who can choose to sell his or her product into the commodity markets, rather than a corporation that dictates all the terms and can put a family farmer out of business in mere seconds.

A family-owned farm can be incorporated for business reasons, but if the only people working it are family members, then it's definitely a family farm. Even if a farmer hires a hand or two, not of the family, but still works full-time supervising and working the farm his or herself, that's a family farm.

Not much different than somebody who starts a small business, say a restaurant, and everybody in the family works there, even though there may be unrelated workers.

My father and his brothers own a business (non-farming) that is a corporation in which all but a few employees are unrelated. While that business IS privately family-owned -- and the bosses are family -- I wouldn't consider that a really family business. If it was, all my siblings and my cousins would work there -- and only one cousin (out of several dozen) does.

But the corporate farming that most people are concerned about means corporations unconnected to the land who own farms and manage farmworkers just to make a profit for their shareholders, not just to make a living for themselves. Not unlike public corporations beholden to Wall Street's obsession with quarterly results, rather than the long-term health of a business.

Independent farmers, such as the Gorrells appear to be and appear to want to remain, work their own farms, sell their products on the open market and hope to make a living. It's called capitalism - a time-honored American tradition. And family farmers face enormous financial risks everytime they sow a crop - they can't control markets or weather or politicians -- the average family farmer has no connection to powerful Beltway lobbyists. I have spent my life working for corporations, who take that risk, rather than me. In return, I've gotten a regular weekly salary. Farmers don't get that -- they are much braver than me.

I -- a non-farmer -- want farmers to be able to make a decent, middle-class living and be independent businesspeople if they choose to be. I want to eat and use products grown in the United States as opposed to China (I'm still really ticked off about all the lead paint on my Thomas the Tank Engine products I bought for my beloved nieces and nephews).

As a taxpayer, I subsidize all sorts of things, some I agree with (family farms, health insurance for the elderly, unemployment, college students) and some I don't (Iraq war; large profitable corporations who pay no or little income tax; big oil, etc.) To me, profitable corporations who don't pay their share of taxes (both local, state and federal) should be the targets -- not a family farmer trying to make a decent living.

King Corn, the movie, brings up some good questions that need to be debated by thoughtful people. It did not call for the end to farm subsidies -- it called for them to be reconsidered and perhaps appropriated differently. It did not call for corn to be banned (as many movie critics seemed to think) -- but it sure wasn't in favor of HFCS.

I've never liked HFCS and avoid it like the plague, but I guarantee you if I looked into the fridges and cupboards of my 10 closest neighbors (all who are skinnier than me and think they live in very healthy way), I'd find a boatload of it (mostly in pop and "diet" products).

That's choice American consumers have made. Blaming a corn farmer makes no sense. Farmers grow what the market wants; just like Nike makes the sneakers the market wants or Hallmark makes the cards the market will buy. In the end, the consumer governs the choice.

Having said that, only 5 percent of the American corn crop goes to HFCS -- and, yes, the movie makes that clear. Most movie critics seemed to be dozing off during those segments.

I don't want the family farm to disappear. But at the same time, I recognize that family farmers these days are businesspeople who are managing millions of dollars. They aren't making big profits, percentagewise, but it takes a lot of money for equipment, seed and costs to produce crops.

I would prefer to subsidize American crop prices as opposed to foreign oil. And to other big businesses that are doing little to contribute to American productivity.

-- Posted by talea on Sun, May 4, 2008, at 12:29 AM

Let me re-phrase....Why are my posts being deleted by the editor???

-- Posted by onpoint on Sat, May 3, 2008, at 10:45 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
You've posted 43 comments since December 7, 2007. Six have been removed. The two most recent to be removed -- one on April 19 and one on May 1 -- were deleted because I received complaints about them. One included a term considered profane and one considered graphic language that was considered offensive.

Why are my posts getting deleted???

-- Posted by onpoint on Sat, May 3, 2008, at 10:44 PM

Congrats to all of the Graduates today at Valley. It was a very windy day but everyone kept their speeches to a minimum and a good time was had by all

=)

-- Posted by AnnaBell on Sat, May 3, 2008, at 7:11 PM

"Agricultural Subsidy Opponent", huh?

How about Agricultural Fact Providor, Eric?!; Or Agricultural Subsidy Reform Advocatae? Remember, it was you yourself who noted the same nonsense my granny used to say "It's not what you say, it's how you say it....". I thought the idea then was a crock and still do.... I told granny this fact. She didn't like it, but grew to accept a fact is a fact, irrespective of how it is presented. (tears streaming down my face as I wring my hands....these attributes buy points in our wonderfully politically correct land....cry and you get your way....)

-- Posted by Jody on Sat, May 3, 2008, at 5:31 PM

By the way, Jody, I don't think my mother would recognize me in this conversation beings she named me "Eric," not "Editor." "Editor" is just a job title. You wouldn't want me to call you Agricultural Subsidy Opponent Smith would ya? ;-)

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Sat, May 3, 2008, at 4:22 PM

Thanks for the information, Jody. Since you arrived announcing your intention to educate us on these issues I knew you would cheerfully respond and so you did.

From the research you supply, it sounds like cellulose ethanol has great potential as an efficient source of energy and is at roughly a similar stage of develop that corn-based ethanol was a few decades ago: possible, but with some kinks to work out before the process becomes economically viable.

Like you, I imagine that with enough investment in research, the day will arrive, maybe not far off, when cellulose sources will be able to compete with corn in ethanol production.

That'll help all right.

But will the marketplace be so different then that subsidies to switchgrass farmers and cellulose ethanol producers will be unnecessary? If so, how do you think that can be achieved?

I know the research you've done takes a tremendous amount of time and patience. Thank you for being willing to share what you know.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Sat, May 3, 2008, at 4:17 PM

Editor Crump:

Bluntly, I do not like the tone of your written word. Are you posting as the Editor of a newspaper or as a "regular Joe" because it sure looks like you're posting as an Editor of a paper beholding to the powers that be in a farming county and a publisher who is hand in glove with the lot of them.....

Irrespective, the jury is out about the Cellulosic Ethanol. HOWEVER it merits as much if not more money being dedictated to price supports to farmers....and that is what this matter is all about....FARM SUBSIDIES...NOT alternative fuels. However, again, to simply humor you I'll give you some data that you could easily find on your own....I'll be your "field hand" and give it to you:

According to the U.S. Department of Energy, corn-based ethanol provides 26 percent more energy than is required for its production, while cellulosic provides 80 percent more energy. And while conventional ethanol reduces greenhouse-gas emissions 10 to 20 percent below gasoline levels, the reductions with cellulosic range from 80 percent below gasoline to completely CO2 neutral.

However, again, land scarcity is the issue with cellulosic ethanol. BUT where there is a will there is a way. More data:

Do we have enough land to support a cellulosic-ethanol industry without also competing with food or destroying the environment? The answer is ... maybe. According to a recent study from the University of Tennessee, as many as 100 million acres of cropland and pasture will need to be devoted to switchgrass to produce enough ethanol to offset 25 percent of petroleum use. Currently, U.S. farmers have about 80 million acres in corn, 15-20 percent of which goes into ethanol production.

Since land scarcity will clearly be an issue, some analysts argue that any biofuel strategy will need to be accompanied by a strong dose of conservation. According to "Growing Energy," a 2004 Natural Resources Defense Council report on biofuels, the U.S. is on track to consume 290 billion gallons of gasoline for transportation in 2050. By boosting fuel efficiencies and reigning in urban sprawl, the report says, we could feasibly cut this figure down to 108 billion gallons.

CONSERVATION is the operative word here, just in case abstractive thought is difficult not only for you, but for the rich farmers of Saline County Missouri of saw the quick buck available through subsidy support of corn at the expense of food for the people.

So here's where the mathematics of biomass come in. NRDC has forecasted that the number of gallons of ethanol produced per ton of dry switchgrass could jump from 50 gallons to 117 gallons by 2050. Crop experts say that current averages of five dry tons of grass per acre could easily double under a standard breeding program. These combined boosts in efficiency mean that enough switchgrass could be grown on a reasonable chunk of land to produce 165 billion gallons of ethanol by 2050. And because one gallon of ethanol contains 66 percent of the energy content of gasoline, 165 billion gallons of ethanol equates to -- you guessed it -- 108 billion gallons of gasoline.

On the efficiency side, it demands radical cuts in fuel usage. On the ethanol side, it requires an infrastructure of pipelines and pumps specially designed to transport the hygroscopic fluid. (Railcars and barges currently do the job, but this adds to both CO2 emissions and expense.) More tricky is the problem of the ethanol production itself. Cellulosic biomass is bulky and materially complex, unfit for the same methods of ethanol extraction used with corn. In order to even get the stuff into manageable form, processors must soak it in a pre-treatment bath, followed by an acidic or enzymatic digestion that splits it into simple sugars.

Researchers are now trying to engineer a bacterium that can chomp through all of these sugars at once, but for now the multistep digestion procedure is a requirement. The future of ethanol production will rely not only on streamlining that digestion, but on combining all processes -- from pre-treatment through fermentation -- in a single genetically engineered microorganism.

"The best, immediate option would be to conserve: to use less gasoline."

Research, Editor Crump....not a quick buck for a handful of "family farms" (corporate farms) is what is needed.

States like Iowa REQUIRE corn based ethanol. Guess which state is the top recipient of corn subsides? Look it up. I've provided you the data and yet your posts and emails to me are "attack based".

Remember, please, that Saline County is made up of many more people than a handful of farmers taking the quick buck and getting, well, even more wealthy than they already are via the Farm Subsidy Welfare giveaway....be it to corporate America or the "family farms" who seek to emulate the corporate.

When is enough is enough? When shall personal quest for the almighty dollar be eclipsed by doing the right thing?

( http://www.grist.org/news/maindish/2006/... as data source, among others).

Again, though, let's get back to how much money is flooding into a handful of wealthy "family farms" in Saline County. You've done a good job in protecting those that keep one afloat....it's now time for the average Joe and Jane to weigh in as to their thoughts on the money flowing into a handful of wealthy land owners/"family farmers" who want to plead "It's in your best interest..." as they laugh on their way to the bank with free money from USDA which was obtained off the work of the back of the common man via income tax payments.

So for the regular guy, here's the link again to discover who amongst you is taking in money for free from our government, legally, and trying to convince you, the regular, financially strapped guy or gal who toils day in and day out in a rural community with little opportunity for betterment:

http://farm.ewg.org/farm/top_recips.php?...

when you see a name that is of interest to you, click on the name.

after you click on the name look for the link that says: Subsidy Information for Recipient, 1995-2006

Click on that and don't become too angry.

-- Posted by Jody on Sat, May 3, 2008, at 3:48 PM

Clever rhetorical tactic, Jody. Instead of answering my question, ask me why I "ignored" something I wasn't asking about. The old diversion trick.

Here's a followup question: Do you think cellulose ethanol will become a viable source of fuel free from government subsidies and unsullied by the greed of corporate America?

Can cellulose sources avoid the same fate as corn?

If so, how?

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Sat, May 3, 2008, at 2:02 PM

PS:

Why is the CELLULOSE ETHANOL over corn being ignorned in your reviewing(s) Editor Crump?

Corn ethanol does not need subsidies. Cellulose ethanol research does--it would actually do some good. But's what's needed is research, and very small-scale plants, not the big ones that are being built on pretense.

-- Posted by Jody on Sat, May 3, 2008, at 1:14 PM

Editor Crump,

Simply because one questions National policy relative to price supports and corn based fuel, doesn't mean one is "... allied with (or at least going in the same direction as) the oil industry....".

I have many environmentalist views. I'm "green", but I still drive a car. I will state that from 1990---2001 I relied 100% on a bio-diesel type fuel in that I made deals with fast food restaurants and such to drain their oil traps for them! I ran on 100% spent cooking oil with NO modifications to an old Mercedes 220D. NO modifications. I did change the fuel filter every 1000km. I didn't do it to be "green", I did it because I am frugal and it made sense to me. I'm over that at this point. I was living somewhere where that was easy to do. However, it was then that I began to look to Europe and Asia to see what they were doing relative to alternative fuels. It was eye opening and I'd happily trade my car for the mass transit systems I've seen. Even small, dinky little towns have them. All over the place.

I've lived "off the grid" in the Caribbean for a couple of years, relying 100% on wind and solar for juice, and cistern water for water: No rain, no water. One learns to live in a conservative fashion. I did not want: I had a/c when I needed it and as much electricity as I could handle. It was no big deal...just some "fun time" for an old guy.

I have used wood to heat for the past 25+ years when in cold climates. I will NEVER trade away my Jotul (Norweigan built) cast iron stove for natural gas! I may obtain yet another cast iron stove to burn sawdust pellets, not corn! Environmentalists will tell you that wood heat is bad for the enviroment. Big deal. It's cheap for me and I'm selfish about it. However, at least I know it and own it. As well, I'll trade being my own man for paying a fat cat utility company any day. It's all a compromise. I do suspect rather strongly that my "carbon footprint" is nowhere near as large as most. I use less than 900 gallons of water per month per my water bills of the past 8 years. I conserve.

There, I've "shared" some about the way I live.....folks in Marshall seemingly have to have this kind of information....why escapes me, but there it is for you.

So, again, simply because one suggests the farm subsidy program is a welfare for the rich program, doesn't mean one is holding hands with oil. Both are unctuous. The oil boys aren't quite as pious as the farmers, though. Additionally, it's made clear in the posts I've made, if the school marms have even taken time to read them, that it is clearly recognized that farmers are a distant 2nd from who is really getting that subsidy money.....nonetheless, it doesn't excuse them from the very real fact they're participating in a federal give away whose time has come and gone and needs revision.

-- Posted by Jody on Sat, May 3, 2008, at 1:04 PM

Oh, I quite agree that "buzz word labels" can be harmful. That's why I object to Jody's characterization of the Gorells with an equally unpalatable label (in the Midwest and elsewhere)as "corporate" farmers. Ya gotta call 'em as ya see 'em - I understand that - but it's hardly cricket to object when the same is done to you or anyone else.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sat, May 3, 2008, at 1:00 PM

NanaDot,

Just a quibble:

Ethanol isn't really a "quick fix." It's an option that has been developing for at least 3 decades. And it's still nowhere near (nor does it need to be) a replacement for oil-based fuels.

What puzzles me is the politics rather than the policy. But it seems like you're saying it's the policies and the economics of ethanol, not the fuel itself, that's the problem?

It's just that, if you'd told me in 1978 that environmentlists eventually would be allied with (or at least going in the same direction as) the oil industry in a concerted campaign against corn-based fuel, I would have scoffed. Repeatedly.

Though I certainly will never again call anyone an environmentalist to their face (sorry about that, Jody!), I was hoping someone who's informed about environmentalist positions might be able to shed a little light on this apparently strange change in political alignment.

I used to be better informed about this stuff than I am now, thus the question.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Sat, May 3, 2008, at 12:08 PM

Correct me if I am wrong, but "Jody" either represents or is in tune with EWG, which, I believe, stands for "Environmentalist Working Group," so labeling him/her as an environmentalist seems quite appropriate, does it not?

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sat, May 3, 2008, at 12:07 PM

NanaDot, this was one producer of all of the Producers in California. I'm sure that there may be more than just this one producer in the State of California. What about other producers in other states?

-- Posted by John Q. on Sat, May 3, 2008, at 11:34 AM

Thank you for your question, Editor Crump. Let's first begin, however, with another question: Where have I ever stated that I am "an environmentalist"? Please don't place tags on me. Let me do that. I don't label myself as anything other than a common sense man who knows when the government and the rich guy are making an end run to try to pull the wool over my eyes.

I do not necessarily have a solution to our energy woes. However, I do know that the we as a Nation must reduce our consumption; first things first, after all. Turn off that light. Walk. Car pool. Does Johnny really need to be driven to the football practice or might he walk or ride a bike? Does Jane really need to be driven to school? Etc. Keep the home colder in the winter and hotter in the summer. Poor folk already do both of those.

The development of a comprehensive mass transit system across the USA is something that is inevitable in my view. Owning an automobile needs to cost a body lot of money and as a compromise to not owning one, our Country offers, instead, public transport that is affordable: Buses, light rail, trains, etc., etc., etc.

I've always been one who questions the all inclusive solution. I've done the same with "alternative fuels". It looks good on the surface, slick politicians sucker trusting citizens into the quick fix, and BANG! another problem. History repeats itself over and over in this regard. Bob Dylan noted "You don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows...". That's the deal with the "quick fix" of corn ethanol. I am well aware that the farmer is a very distant 2nd with respect to getting money for ethanol....the vast majority of it goes to Big Business. I don't think the farmers really want to be in bed with those guys. Than again, a buck is a buck, Mr. Editor.

Here's an idea that took me five minutes to find:

Who should get the subsidy?

In 2006 ethanol blenders were handed $2,500 million in subsidies while the Department of Energy awarded $385 million spread over four to six years to help build cellulose ethanol plants. That's about 32 times less per year. But celluse gets a bit of subsidy from the USDA. Altogether it may get 10% as much as corn-ethanol. The problem is the lobby for cellulose is much weaker than the corn-ethanol lobby.

Corn ethanol does not need subsidies. Cellulose ethanol research does--it would actually do some good. But's what's needed is research, and very small-scale plants, not the big ones that are being built on pretense.

http://zfacts.com/p/63.html

Conventional ethanol and cellulosic ethanol are the same product, but are produced utilizing different feedstocks and processes. Conventional ethanol is derived from grains such as corn and wheat or soybeans. Corn, the predominant feedstock, is converted to ethanol in either a dry or wet milling process. In dry milling operations, liquefied corn starch is produced by heating corn meal with water and enzymes. A second enzyme converts the liquefied starch to sugars, which are fermented by yeast into ethanol and carbon dioxide. Wet milling operations separate the fiber, germ (oil), and protein from the starch before it is fermented into ethanol.

Cellulosic ethanol can be produced from a wide variety of cellulosic biomass feedstocks including agricultural plant wastes (corn stover, cereal straws, sugarcane bagasse), plant wastes from industrial processes (sawdust, paper pulp) and energy crops grown specifically for fuel production, such as switchgrass. Cellulosic biomass is composed of cellulose, hemicellulose and lignin, with smaller amounts of proteins, lipids (fats, waxes and oils) and ash. Roughly, two-thirds of the dry mass of cellulosic materials are present as cellulose and hemicellulose. Lignin makes up the bulk of the remaining dry mass.

( http://www.harvestcleanenergy.org/enews/... )

-- Posted by Jody on Sat, May 3, 2008, at 10:54 AM

Here's a question for Jody and any other stouthearted environmentalists out here, one that I've been puzzling over for some time.

Environmentalists in recent decades have argued against our dependence on oil, a finite resource that generates a good deal of pollution as it's converted into energy.

Until relatively recently, the push was for renewable fuels.

Now we have several viable renewable fuels, especially ethanol and biodiesel, and the environmentalist position seems to have almost abruptly shifted from demonizing oil to demonizing renewable fuels.

Jody argues that what we really need are vehicles that more efficiently burn fossil fuels? But oil is still a finite resource mined from the earth at great expense and cost to the ecosystem, right? That didn't change while I wasn't looking, did it? (It could have, I admit; I haven't been looking as closely as I once did.)

And one more specific question: If ethanol "results in a net energy loss of 65 percent," how does that compare to the net energy loss for oil? Is it better than that? Is oil being embraced by environmentalists as better than renewable fuels?

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Sat, May 3, 2008, at 10:31 AM

Taking into account the energy required to grow the corn and convert it into ethanol, it has been determined that burning the biofuel as a gasoline additive actually results in a net energy loss of 65 percent and in all likelihood, much more. Corn is not 'free energy'. The cumulative energy consumed in corn farming and ethanol production is six times greater than what the end product provides your car engine in terms of power.

If ethanol is as much of an environmental Trojan horse as the data suggests, what is the solution? Some researchers see several possibilities, all of which can be explored in tandem. First, is to divert funds earmarked for ethanol to improve the efficiency of fuel cells and hybrid electric cars. (Adapted from materials provided by University Of California - Berkeley; http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/200...

"Abusing our precious croplands to grow corn for an energy-inefficient process that yields low-grade automobile fuel amounts to unsustainable, subsidized food burning...." says Cornell professor David Pimentel (College of Agriculture and Life Sciences). Pimentel, who chaired a U.S. Department of Energy panel that investigated the energetics, economics and environmental aspects of ethanol production several years ago, subsequently conducted a detailed analysis of the corn-to-car fuel process.

"Corn production in the U.S. erodes soil about 12 times faster than the soil can be reformed, and irrigating corn mines groundwater 25 percent faster than the natural recharge rate of ground water. The environmental system in which corn is being produced is being rapidly degraded. Corn should not be considered a renewable resource for ethanol energy production, especially when human food is being converted into ethanol".

o The approximately $1 billion a year in current federal and state subsidies (mainly to large corporations) for ethanol production are not the only costs to consumers, the Cornell scientist observes. Subsidized corn results in higher prices for meat, milk and eggs because about 70 percent of corn grain is fed to livestock and poultry in the United States Increasing ethanol production would further inflate corn prices, Pimentel says, noting: "In addition to paying tax dollars for ethanol subsidies, consumers would be paying significantly higher food prices in the marketplace." (data taken from http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/200...

Corn ethanol subsidies totaled $7.0 billion in 2006 for 4.9 billion gallons of ethanol. That's $1.45 per gallon of ethanol (and $2.21 per gal of gas replaced).

Even with high gas prices in 2006, producing a gallon of ethanol cost 38¢ more than making gasoline with the same energy, so ethanol did need part of that subsidy. But what about the other $1.12. Not needed! So all of that became, $5.4 billion windfall of profits paid to real farmers, corporate farmers, and ethanol makers like multinational ADM. Why is it the farm states put up with this?!

Where did those subsidies come from:

1. 51¢ per gallon federal blenders credit for $2.5 billion = your tax dollars.

2. $0.9 billion in corn subsidies for ethanol corn = your tax dollars.

3. $3.6 billion extra paid at the pump. (see data from http://zfacts.com/p/63.html)

-- Posted by Jody on Sat, May 3, 2008, at 10:20 AM

Smokin Cheetah and Jody keep up the good work. You guys exemplify the great American populist tradition. Thankfully it has reared its head again during these for the common man, troubling times. Populism is a movement that conservatives, liberals, and all in between can come together to promote the welfare of the working class which is most of us. Populism is anathema to the rich and they will do all they can to still its voice. They have a greater percentage of the wealth of our country than ever in our nation's history. They own the television networks, They own the radio commentators. They do not own the internet which is largely the only unfettered forum of ideas remaining. It is the fresh place for truth. It is the only source that does not feed us what the powerful want us to hear. It is the only source that dignifies us by demanding that we each think for ourselves, and select the truth from a plethora of ideas. We can hope that we are up to that task. We better be.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, May 3, 2008, at 12:55 AM

Just out of curiosity- why did the 911 article suddenly disappear from the main page.....after all, it was one of "This weeks most read stories".

-- Posted by prd123 on Fri, May 2, 2008, at 11:08 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Chronology. It was posted Wednesday, updated Thursday. The stories posted since pushed it down the list. Since there's still much interest, I moved it back up top.

Well, Berne, I am not sure where to begin. Suffice to say that it was the perception of school marms that I was "...on the attack...", and later email from the Editor confirmed this non-reality.

I do own that ONE post did specificially list date from the Farm Subsidy database which listed the PUBLIC RECORD PAYMENTS to a specific farmer.

Irrespective of the past, and in the interests of creating a public discourse, I shall copy and paste one post (I didn't start keeping copies until the massive deletion of my posts, so I don't have them all....).

"The mission of the Environmental Working Group (EWG) is to use the power of public information to protect public health and the environment. EWG is a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization, founded in 1993 by Ken Cook and Richard Wiles.

"In 2002, we founded the EWG Action Fund, a 501(c)(4) organization that advocates on Capitol Hill for health-protective and subsidy-shifting policies.

"Our research brings to light unsettling facts that you have a right to know. It shames and shakes up polluters and their lobbyists. It rattles politicians and shapes policy. It persuades bureaucracies to rethink science and strengthen regulation. It provides practical information you can use to protect your family and community.

And because our investigations and interactive websites tend to make news, you've probably heard about them. Even if you've never heard of us. Which is fine. We'd rather you remember our work than our name." (quoted from the http://www.ewg.org website under the ABOUT section).

http://farm.ewg.org/farm/top_recips.php?... is an internet link that will show you the top recipients of farm subsidy payments in Saline County Missouri over the past ten years. Simply click on the name and you will be taken to another link that will show the payouts over the past ten years. Take a look at it and you may just be surprised about how much money is involved. It's all public record because they're federal farm welfare payments.

We're trying to find a way to give the common folk access to information that will help you understand why the price of food, gasoline, and everything else (your HOME?) is so sky high? Are people ashamed of how much money they've been given by the farm subsidy program? Inquiring minds want to know. http://farm.ewg.org/farm/persondetail.ph... is a link that demonstrates how focused a report one can obtain on the EWG website. It's fun!

-- Posted by Jody on Fri, May 2, 2008, at 7:29 PM

Jodi, now that you are back on the blog page let's fill in the blanks

-- Posted by Berne on Fri, May 2, 2008, at 6:25 PM

Mr. Crump:

Thank you for the open discourse. You note: "As Jody's recent comments suggest, farm subsidies are an important part of this area's economy."

Let's be clear on this point: It's important for a SELECT HANDFUL OF SUBSIDY RECIPIENTS....the farm subsidy payments to this handful of Agribusiness operation is not that impacting on the vast majority of Saline County Missouri residents and tax payers who earn nowhere near the money being paid out in these subsidies. To assert the average Joe and Jane earn what these Agribusiness operations earn belies an ignorance as to how the economics of the U.S.A. actually work.

-- Posted by Jody on Fri, May 2, 2008, at 5:12 PM

As Jody's recent comments suggest, farm subsidies are an important part of this area's economy. I admit I don't know enough about them. I'd be interested in learning more about how and why the system evolved, what the consequences are of continuing it, what the consequences would be of dismantling it, how it could be changed without forcing farmers out of business, whether there are good arguments for keeping the system we have, etc.

Those who know, will you shed some light?

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Fri, May 2, 2008, at 2:44 PM

I'd like to add one comment to BJ's post. If after a hard days work you decide to go out it's ok to shower and change clothes. It's hard to decide which is worse, your crude behavior or blended spell that you are emitting.

-- Posted by Berne on Fri, May 2, 2008, at 11:20 AM

I agree that there are many instances that children act up in public, mine included! My tolerance is extremely limited to adults who act worse that children in public. I attended the 4th grade program of School House Rock. During the whole performance a group of family members sitting next to me talked, laughed, and slapped each other. The theater was packed, so moving was not an option. Also, there was a man holding his small child behind me that talked to the child throughout the program.

While I'm discussing my low tolerance level towards adults, I might as well list them all:

1) If you receive a cell phone call in public, don't hold your conversation where everyone can hear you. Hearing what you did over the weekend or the latest gossip doesn't interest me.

2) Close your mouth at the table. I don't want to see or hear you eating! Am I the only one who believes in table ediquette these days?

3) Cover up! Showing off your underwear, cleavage, crack, or excess body fat is not appropriate, period!

4) Get control of your own children. Don't expect the schools, police, or your neighbor to watch and teach your children. It's your job, DO IT!

5) Clean up your language! The "F", "B", "S", "GD", "FU", "N", words are used by children and adults everywhere. What's wrong with our society that we can believe this language is acceptable?

And finally 6) If it is not yours, LEAVE IT ALONE!! Enough said.

-- Posted by bj on Fri, May 2, 2008, at 10:12 AM

http://reason.com/news/show/126236.html is a web site that will outline rather nicely the silliness going on in Washington right now relative to how much welfare farmers are going to receive.

"First, what do the farmers get? Answer: A lot. Last year, net farm income reached a record level of nearly $89 billion due to high crop prices. Farm household income averaged $84,000 in 2007..."

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=&q... will take you a google search which will provide you with all manner of objective news reports about the impending farm welfare program law about to passed by Congress. Now's the time to contact your Congressperson and let them know what you think. Trust me, the rich farmers are in daily contact with the offices. To the victor goes the spoils!

-- Posted by Jody on Fri, May 2, 2008, at 8:08 AM

jodi I went to your link and I found it informative. I also went to the story King Corn and read the comments. I found all of this informative. I think the discussion pro - con is helpful for me to even start to understand the issue. I believe you are very passionate about what you believe. I don't know about what posts have been deleted, I didn't see them. I detect a tone in your responses as almost shouting. Clam down, state your facts and lets continue. I'd like for the discussion to continue.

-- Posted by Berne on Fri, May 2, 2008, at 12:49 AM

I don't know.. maybe I have taught my kids better but they know how to act out in public. They know when the time to be loud is and when it's time to just sit down and be quiet.... because that's how I was raised.... Don't throw fits in the stores.... be nice and polite when you are out eating or in a public place. Yes kids are supposed to be loud and rambunctious but there is a time and place for that. I just have to look at my kids one time if they do happen to act up and they know to stop. They do not scream or look over the booths at other people while out eating... and if I happen to get the chance to do something where I do not think my kids will be able to handle sitting for a long period of time I find a baby sitter. If I can't do that then I stay at home with them, order a pizza and watch a movie, family night.

=)

-- Posted by AnnaBell on Thu, May 1, 2008, at 11:00 PM

I agree. When I do take my wife out for dinner it's to enjoy a quiet evening and enjoy a good meal. Not to listen to the racket of people and children behaving in a public place just like they behave at home. OMG, what if this is their good behavior?

-- Posted by Berne on Thu, May 1, 2008, at 10:54 PM

I think restaurants should have couples areas and family areas. If I get an evening out with my spouse without our child I don't want to listen to someone else child screem and throw a fit. If I leave my child at home I don't want to put up with someone elses acting like a heathen! I really hate when they turn around in the booth in front of or behind us and think it's fun to try to include themselves in what's going on at our table. Mom and Dad just think it's cute. I don't think it's cute!!! I think it's annoying!!!

-- Posted by Typesetter on Thu, May 1, 2008, at 8:36 PM

I attended the orchestra concert last night at MHS. The dedication, hard work, long hours, and sincerity that Kevin Lines gives to his students was apparent through their performance and longivity in the program. Few schools in the State of Missouri have orchestra as a part of their curriculum. We should be extremely proud of Kevin and the Marshall School District for continuing to offer this life long activity. I was extremely disappointed, however, at the lack of attendance from parents, faculty/administration, and school board members. I certainly hope that more people come to BMS tonight to see their performances and give our teachers and children the support they deserve!

I would also like to offer some advice for those who choose to attend:

1. If you bring small children, please sit in the back and do not allow them to run around in the isles. This is distracting for Kevin, the performers, and the people watching.

2. DO NOT get up and walk around during the performance. Unless you are needing emergency medical treatment, STAY PUT!!!

3. If you are having a medical emergency, stay away from the stairs that lead onto the stage or to the balcony areas. Beleive me, you are drawing enough negative attention to yourself just by standing up in front of everyone. Stomping up the stairs and putting the, "Oops, I didn't mean to be that loud!" look on your face is quite enough!

4. BE QUIET!!! Put away those cellphones, conversations can wait with your neighbor or best friend, and quiet your children! It is extremely rude to talk, laugh, and goof around during the performance.

I will also add that many of these suggestions apply to movie theaters, restaurants, and sport events.

-- Posted by bj on Thu, May 1, 2008, at 3:23 PM

Sorry Kathy I didn't take those small business into account. I should have said, the boss could pay him a lot higher than the minimum wage guideline if he wanted to. The fact that he doesn't want too speaks for itself.

-- Posted by John Q. on Thu, May 1, 2008, at 3:15 PM

prd123-its your opinion. Im stating a fact!! Get over it. thank you.

-- Posted by yomomma on Thu, May 1, 2008, at 3:06 PM

NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DUMMY DUMMY DUMMY DUMMY DUMMY DUMMY DUMMY DUMMY DUMMY DUMMY DUMMY DUMMY DUMMY!!!!!!!!!!

-- Posted by yomomma on Thu, May 1, 2008, at 2:44 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Fortunately, this comment does not appear to be directed toward anyone in particular. Finger exercises, maybe?

Actually prd the word NOT used that way is not just a kids term. In the state of california along the coast it is commenly used by everyone even adults. It just depends on where u live its a culteral word.Just like dude,and cool. its beach/surfer word.Everywhere else its used there just copyin the west coast.

-- Posted by kt_01 on Thu, May 1, 2008, at 1:31 PM

Federal and state minimum wage laws do not apply to every business everywhere. Web sites for the U.S. Department of Labor and the Missouri Department of Labor and Industrial Relations give details about businesses that are exempt. In most cases, service and retail businesses with annual gross sales of less than $500,000 are exempt from these laws.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Thu, May 1, 2008, at 1:09 PM

jj, your boss can pay you anything he wants as long as it meets the Federal minimum wage standard. He could pay you a lot higher than the minimum wage guideline if he wanted to. Then you could enjoy some of the nicer things in life. The fact that he doesn't speaks for itself.

-- Posted by John Q. on Thu, May 1, 2008, at 12:50 PM

Ok jj I see your point. Minimum wage always chases inflation. Unfortunately inflation is a fact of life. Until the 1970's a person earing the minimum wage was not in poverty. The great benefit to the people was they could enjoy some of the finer things of life. The great benefit to the government is that it did not have to support minimum wage earners.

Minimum wage also chases the costs of goods. Unfortunately, it only happens when congress mandates the increase. Their has never been a minimum wage increase that the U.S. Chamber of Commerce hasn't fought. Big business doesn't care about you. I have never known a businessman who didn't make decisions in his best interest on my account.

Supply and demand (whether real or manipulated) is the yardstick by which the costs of goods rises or falls.

-- Posted by John Q. on Thu, May 1, 2008, at 12:41 PM

The main question should be who had/made the best proposal. If the committee set "guidelines" and then ignored their own 'rules' I find it reasonable to ask why guidelines were issued. The other more interesting question is why was there not any discussion about COST?? If one site met all the criteria and another didn't; if one site meets all the "criteria" listed by the committee and is less expensive, does that qualify for consideration? Oh wait, it was specifically stated that "proposals should not be submitted with any price or cost information." It appears that taxpayer's money is going to be spent with no consideration of costs or worry about being good stewards of the public's money. I find that very disturbing.

-- Posted by saline mo on Thu, May 1, 2008, at 11:05 AM

yomomma- is this where I'm supposed to fight back with name calling? I'm sorry, but I got out of the 3rd grade many years ago. I also quit using terms like "NOT"! Maybe you should try and stay on subject like the rest of us adults just stating our opinions.

-- Posted by prd123 on Thu, May 1, 2008, at 9:44 AM

As I understand from reading comments on here the 911 site isn't even in Slater but I had to respond to this comment. I apologize ahead of time if I offend anyone but I was offended when I read this comment. yomomma-So having people from Marshall spending money on gas to drive to Slater would be different from people from Slater spending their money to drive to Marshall to work how? As I see it as long as the building is put in a place that is acceptable it shouldn't matter. Think about all the people in Slater that have to drive to Marshall to go to work at the Hab Center, Con Agra, Butterfields..... even Pizza Hut and Mc Donalds..(what about the people in Marshall who work at BHA?)Do you really think that it's going to matter who has to put gas in their cars to drive to work? Everyone does that anyway. And do you think that people in Slater aren't educated enough to be a part of the operation and help to run it? Because that's what I got from your statement "Besides somebody has to run the center". How about people from other communities that have the possibility of working there? Please do not get on the whole Marshall is better than Slater thing. That isn't fair and is just going to start a whole internet fight about who's town has what and why people think their town is better. Just let the 911 commission put the building where THEY think will work out better for everyone. We all had an opportunity to give our own input about it. They made their choice. Leave it at that.

-- Posted by AnnaBell on Thu, May 1, 2008, at 8:58 AM

Well yomomma- if you had any clue as to what was going on- you would know that the land Slater offered is the ONLY piece of land that met ALL of the Criteria. Unlike the site that was chosen.

-- Posted by prd123 on Thu, May 1, 2008, at 8:19 AM

Hey, saline mo,is closing the only "state of the art airport" in Slater the best thing the "TOWN LEADERS" had to offer to try to get the 911 center? Just another reason not to put it in Slater!!Besides,it would cost the good people from Marshall to much gas money to drive back and forth.Somebody has operate the center.

-- Posted by yomomma on Thu, May 1, 2008, at 7:46 AM

jj, this is going to be a long post because I want to address the some issues that you brought up in your last post. One thing you forgot to mention is that Coca Cola buys sugarcane from Gautama instead of Hawaii or other countries because it's cheaper. It's harvested by the use of slave labor but who cares it's cheaper. There's a great book titled 'I A Guatemalan' that won the Pulitzer Prize in literature. It describes how foreign investment directly effects the lives of the people in that country. It's a great read but I doubt you would agree with it because it contradicts most of your posts.

Unions have their beginnings in such places as The Matewan Incident right here in the USA. You should try to do the job of one of those 5 city workers. Let's say you have one particular job that requires a skill, an electrician, and you have to splice a wiring truck line that is damaged. Do you just jump in and start working or do you wait until the backhoe arrives on a trailer pulled by a truck driven by another skilled worker; is unloaded and operated by another skilled worker and digs the trench first so you can get to the line. Now do you jump right in and go to work or do you wait until the safety cage is off loaded from a truck driven by another skilled worker and is lowered into the trench to keep you from being killed if/or when the walls cave in on you. Now that you are finally down in the hole should the rest of the workers leave or would you like for some of them to hang around just in case you might need a special tool or materials handed down to you. To say the least you might want one or two to be around to control the traffic zooming past you. And when you are finally done with your job I don't think you'd want to try to remove the cage from the trench and reload it onto the truck and return it to the city garage. If you did then you could run back to the job, fill in the trench, cleanup around the job site, reload the backhoe onto a trailer and drop it off at the city garage. You might want to read the book by Upton Sinclare called 'The Jungle'. It will give you more information about why we now have OSHA and the FDA.

In 1968 the minimum wage was $1.00 an hour. In the 1940's my dad worked at a lumber mill for $.50 an hour. In that 25 year period the cost of necessity's went up. Did the prices ever go up on anything you wanted to buy over the last 25 years. Your argument is the same argument that businesses espoused over a hundred years ago.If it wasn't for the minimum wage , if it wasn't for the hard work of others establishing unions and collective bargaining we could be getting other countries to outsource their jobs to us. The wages that Americans make directly effect the economy in this country. Think about it! If Americans don't have money to spend then they can't buy anything. The businesses in this country couldn't survive trying to sell their goods to Americans who couldn't afford their products. I think somewhere in here you can see how everything is connected with something else that directly impacts on your life and every one else in this country.

I looked for your reference made when you were referring to the Fair Labor Standards Act. Nowhere could I find a reference to The China Act. I would like to know your source on this one if you have one. By the way, What's wrong with being fair about anything?

Halliburton, the company that makes more money that most nations moved it corporate offices off shore last year. They didn't do it because pipeline labor in Iraq or the Persian Gulf is cheaper. They pay high wages for American and European contractors to come over there to do the work. No, all the money they earn offshore, if it's kept offshore then they don't have to pay U.S. Corporate taxes on those earnings. Oh, they're still here just the corporate charter was established over there. The big bosses are still seen around town doing what they do, but now that they have moved their charter to Bahrain they are considered a foreign owned corporation.

JJ, if I've made any mistakes I apologize. Maybe someone else can put some input in on my post. It's late an I'm going to bed.

-- Posted by John Q. on Thu, May 1, 2008, at 5:33 AM

It looks like things are getting out of hand in China again today. Protesters outside Carrefour outlets calling for boycotts of EU and particularly French made exports. Thursday is a holiday in China and more students are expected to join in the fray. What's going to happen if China doesn't put a stop to these demands for boycott?

-- Posted by John Q. on Thu, May 1, 2008, at 1:30 AM

saline mo - We hope to get clarification on the site selection criteria and the scoring tomorrow. We were not able to reach anyone today; minutes of the meeting came to us too late in the day to do much more than simply post the information available to us.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Apr 30, 2008, at 6:51 PM

I see it is business as usual for county services/911 site selection. "The unofficial site selection guidelines......"; if they are/were unofficial why was this not made public? I would guess that if the 'guidelines' were not official many more property owners would have submitted proposals. On the "scoring sheet", it is my understanding that one member rated Slater' site with a rating of ZERO (0); how can that be possible when that site met every single criteria listed by the committee? Since it has been publicly been stated by one committee member that the center would be located in Slater "only over my dead body...." it would seem there was some preconceived ideas before the process even began. I would be interested in a public posting of the ratings, who made them and what was done to assure it was done fairly? As elected officials, the public has a right to know this information. but of course it makes no difference since has already been shown that 'guidelines' make no difference in the decision making process.

-- Posted by saline mo on Wed, Apr 30, 2008, at 6:27 PM

The correct spelling is "heparin". It is a drug used to thin the blood. Go to www.webmd.com for complet info on this drug.

-- Posted by Muffin on Wed, Apr 30, 2008, at 3:21 PM

JQ - According to wikipedia, not always the very best source, here's what heparin is: Heparin, a highly-sulfated glycosaminoglycan, is widely used as an injectable anticoagulant and has the highest negative charge density of any known biological molecule.[1] It can also be used to form an inner anticoagulant surface on various experimental and medical devices such as test tubes and renal dialysis machines. Pharmaceutical grade heparin is derived from mucosal tissues of slaughtered meat animals such as porcine (pig) intestine or bovine (cow) lung.[2]

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Apr 30, 2008, at 3:16 PM

kt_01,

i'm certain President Bush is not solely responsible for globalization.

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Wed, Apr 30, 2008, at 2:55 PM

The U.S. stopped being self sufficiant when Bush took office. He outsourced alot of our us manufacturing jobs to other countries.People only have him to blame for this mess we are in now. Plain and simple. And the people who voted him into office the second time.

-- Posted by kt_01 on Wed, Apr 30, 2008, at 2:37 PM

Muffin, I don't really know what heprin is. Is that an exotic food that and American ate and died or was it from a person who was eating pet food trying to survive?

-- Posted by John Q. on Wed, Apr 30, 2008, at 2:02 PM

Wow another Chinese snafoo, tainted heprin resulting in death of a US citizen. Dogs, cats, people....dead. Sure let's keep importing from China.

What the heck happened to the US being self sufficient? And, don't blame ethanol for having to go out of the country for food product. Blame the US "leaders" and all the tree huggers that there is no real market for horses, a key ingreditent in pet food. Blame the US "leaders" for not having the fortitude to make the hard decisions, guiding us to be a self sufficient nation.

It's time we wake up in the ol' USA and realize we need to distance ourselves from relying on other countries for our food, fuel and clothing. So we all may have to take a step back, tighten up our spending belt and go back to being good, hard workers, not just time clock punchers who "expect" to be paid well and have a bulky benefit package. We certainly have the know how but have become a lazy nation. Honest, hard work never hurt anyone and might be a cleansing experience for our "leaders", too.

-- Posted by Muffin on Wed, Apr 30, 2008, at 1:35 PM

Yesterday, the national news services reported that the Navy has sent another aircraft carrier into the Persian Gulf. It was reported as everything from saber rattling to a direct statement to Iran to back off in their suspected suppling of weapons and training Shiite militants. Does you think that the news programs are honestly reporting the news or making it sensational for the purpose of increasing their ratings. I didn't hear any of them reporting that it is " SOP-Standard Operating Procedure" to replace one carrier with another before the a carrier on station returns from deployment.

-- Posted by John Q. on Wed, Apr 30, 2008, at 11:47 AM

EiEiO - I think you've taken offense where none was intended. I used the word "challenged" to describe those inductees who need waivers - the story I cited specifically referred to those with criminal waivers. I posted that information in support, not opposition, to the waivers. People who are given a second chance often demonstrate, as many of these young people obviously have, that they deserved that second chance. The statistics published by the Army bear that out. Redemption, after all, is surely one of the most Christian of all Christian principles.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Apr 30, 2008, at 10:58 AM

Smokin' Cheetah, I intended to by some steel several months ago to finish adaptions to two trailers that I own. Although I haven't started yet the prices that I got from a business in Sedalia were reasonable. Do you think I can still get the Handsome Man and Good Guy discount when I buy the materials and get started?

-- Posted by John Q. on Wed, Apr 30, 2008, at 10:43 AM

NanaDot, one of my neighbors, a girl who had two children and to stays in correctional facilities for Meth convictions successively negotiated the mazes and was allowed to enlist in the Army. When she tested positive for drugs during induction she was sent home for 60 days to clean out. On her return she lost her $20,000.00 sign-up bonus but is currently serving her enlistment.

Remember Arlo Guthry?

-- Posted by John Q. on Wed, Apr 30, 2008, at 10:24 AM

The only Military waivers I'm aware of are Medical or Criminal in nature.

When enlisting 20 plus years ago I needed both, one for a hearing loss and 1 for pending traffic tickets.

I came from a white patriotic middle class family and I **** sure don't consider myself "Challenged"

~Can Ya Hear Me Now~

-- Posted by EiEiO on Wed, Apr 30, 2008, at 9:14 AM

Do a little research JJ....really.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Nationa...

-- Posted by EiEiO on Wed, Apr 30, 2008, at 9:05 AM

This morning's Kansas City Star has an article on page A6 about soliders who needed special waivers to get into the army. The stats are pretty interesting - although the "challenged" "inductees are slightly more apt to go AWOL more often and face more courts-martial, they also get promoted faster and re-enlist at a higher rate." They also earn more medals for valor and tend to stay in the Army longer.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Apr 30, 2008, at 6:59 AM

The GI Bill offers military retirement benefits for their years of service. GI benefits include pensions based on time and grade of service; guaranteed home loans; education grants and loans; medical care; rehabilitation and physical therapy; job assistance; retraining; farm loans, business loans, etc... You might notice most of these benefits have the word loan behind them. That means they are not free and have to be paid back. To receive GI benefits one has to survive their time in the service.

-- Posted by John Q. on Wed, Apr 30, 2008, at 12:10 AM

jj. your previous post was insipid and unnecessary. Most soldiers join the military out of a sense of patriotism. For over two hundred years of America's wars many joined for this reason, thousands of others were drafted. They had no say in the manner. It was either serve or go to prison.

-- Posted by John Q. on Tue, Apr 29, 2008, at 11:52 PM

Former State Representative Bob Ward of St. Francois county reported in a speech that Missouri went to the lethal injection method of execution for two simple reasons. The door on the gas chamber was made with the door taken from a 1930's decommissioned U.S. Battleship. Even though the state did not carry out executions on a regular basis the door seals had to be replaced when it was used. Finally the state ran out of economical suppliers of these seals.

The second reason was that the guards in the prison towers had to be removed for their own protection. In the 60's a guard was incapacitated and collapsed after an execution when they vented the gas chamber.

Prior to lethal injection executions were performed by electrocution, gas chamber, firing squad and hanging. The firing squad was chosen by Gary Gilmore as the method that he wanted used in his execution. Some modern day penologist have stated that when the execution went from public to behind prison walls that was when executions failed in there stated purpose as a deterrent.

In the Gilmore execution the state had numerous volunteers to be part of the execution squad.

-- Posted by John Q. on Tue, Apr 29, 2008, at 11:28 PM

Smokin' Cheetah,

I have read all the entries on this matter thank you very much. Sorry I was misconstruded by your words and took them in the wrong light. I see your point exactly and agree.

And Rex, it was I who made the 5 star comment. If you want to "pee" and moan about it then do so. If the people on death row expierence rape, gangs and the like in prison then good. Let them expierence torture before they die. I am sure that the people that they killed were tortured in some way before they took their life. You don't think seeing someone pull a gun on you and see and hear the shot coming torture? Being cut up not torture? Being raped then strangled to death not torture? At least the people on death row know their fate. People minding their own bussiness and living their life from day to day and are victoms have no idea.

-- Posted by get a clue on Tue, Apr 29, 2008, at 9:02 PM

I recently read the post by EFF ESS. For all of you that oppose the death penalty this link is a worthy read.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080417/ap_o...

-- Posted by John Q. on Tue, Apr 29, 2008, at 8:58 PM

At this point I would like to reiterate one point in my previous posting. After one of the men on Missouri's death row was exonerated of the crime committed he was still held in prison. Governor Blunt wanted the man to remain in prison until a staff member from the Attorney General's office argued to block the court from ordering his release.

When asked by the Supreme Court of the State of Missouri why the Attorney General's office and staff were still seeking the death penalty the Attorney representing the state replied that the man was found guilty by a legally constituted court of law, convicted by a jury of his piers and therefore the state should carry out the verdict of the jury and the order of the court.

A prisoner is held in prison because he has been found guilty in a court of law. A finding of innocence doesn't negate the courts findings. He has been found guilty in a court of law. This is the principle of law not the actual facts that may be brought later.

-- Posted by John Q. on Tue, Apr 29, 2008, at 8:47 PM

rex, I don't know who made the statement about a five star hotel but it wasn't me.

-- Posted by John Q. on Tue, Apr 29, 2008, at 5:28 PM

I've heard the argument/complaint that prisoners in prison have it made; food, health care, cable etc... I don't think there are many people who would like to exchange places with a prisoner just to receive these benefits..

-- Posted by John Q. on Tue, Apr 29, 2008, at 5:26 PM

Smokin' Cheetah, in reference to your remark of irrefutable evidence - whenever a unrepentant prisoner confesses to the crime people will always hold the validity of the confession in question. But in these cases, although rare, I can understand the positions that others take on this issue. Remember, as I said before I haven't always been a minister. I started my career in law enforcement. I was often enraged witnessing the results of violent crimes. The pain and suffering of the victim; the pain and suffering by the victims family and friends was sometimes unbearable. I can tell you honestly that the job of the Circuit judges in these cases bears a greater responsibility than I would want to bear.

-- Posted by John Q. on Tue, Apr 29, 2008, at 5:21 PM

Smokin' Cheetah, in reference to the costs as soon as the death penalty is handed down there is an automatic review required by law. When ever a prisoner contests his sentence there are numerous other costs that are initiated that usually don't apply because to other prisoners due to the severity of the sentence. All of these reviews require additional costs just like the court costs a person encounters in a common traffic ticket. A DWI can costs the offender thousands of dollars for classes just to get their licenses back.

Once a person is placed on death row there is a mandatory death watch in place. Security for these prisoners is triple that of general population prisoners. Whenever a death row prisoner has to be removed from their cell there is a personal escort of extra guards that accompany the prisoner at all aspects of the move. Routine services that are afforded regular prisoners are increased for death row prisoners. Removal from the cell is common to enable the prisoner to talk with his attorney, to receive routine medal checkups or treatment. Death row prisoners have to be treated individually unlike prisoners on a prison yard.

Whenever the State or U.S. Supreme Court is involved either by required state laws or by individual initiative all of these actions require additional costs that are not paid by the prisoner. If the Supreme Court issues and Writ for jurisdiction over the case, either voluntarily or by appeal this also initiates additional cost that have to be paid. Whenever an execution date nears the cost are enormous. The death row and the execution chamber are costs extra and additional that don't apply to general population prisoners. If you just consider the guards salaries, benefits, vacation and pension costs these are considered additional and also don't apply to general population prisoners.

Whenever the execution week is set the state usually houses the prisoners family in a motel in Potosi to be nearer the condemned prisoner. Extra security (State Troopers) are called in to protect the execution by controlling public demonstration that always occur at this time. These are just a few of the additional costs that the state has to pay just to ultimately carry out an execution.

-- Posted by John Q. on Tue, Apr 29, 2008, at 4:38 PM

Anyone can find this information on the net, but the average cost to keep a inmate on deathrow 1 year is $35,587. A single bullet, less then a buck.

-- Posted by get a clue on Tue, Apr 29, 2008, at 3:36 PM

The question was asked and I answered with my honest feelings. I have thought about this, but I still say put them to death as soon as they are found quilty of the crime. I do not see the perpose in keeping them in a prison cell for 20-30 years until their number is called. Was the person or people that they killed given a option? Were they asked, do you want to die a horrible death today, or do you want to wait 20-30 years. Call me when you are ready to die.

-- Posted by get a clue on Tue, Apr 29, 2008, at 3:33 PM

SecretAgentMichaelScarn,

And as far as my comment about a 5 star hotel, I have not misskewed the perception of reality at all. To what they would consider a 5 star hotel is living on death row is much more appealing then being put to death by leathal injection as soon as they are found guilty of the crime they committed.

Or would you consider being put to death worse then living in a prison cell with a warm bed, hot meal and cable a better option?

-- Posted by get a clue on Tue, Apr 29, 2008, at 3:29 PM

Smokin' Cheetah,

I think that you are way to compasionate. You want to "take care of" killers? If they had killed one of your family members maybe you would see things in a different light. Before you can truely answer anything that has to do with is the death penalty is right, you have to look at the topic from both sides. I have done this unfortunatly and I see quite clear thank you.

-- Posted by get a clue on Tue, Apr 29, 2008, at 3:22 PM

Kathy Fairchild,

Yes I can and do sleep well at night knowing that justice is served to those who deserve it. But I do have a problem sleeping knowing that innocent service women and men are dying for a something that doesn't even have anything to do with this country. I have many friends that are overseas willing to put their lives on the line for people like you and I to speak our minds. This I have a problem with.

So, you think that it is alright to let people that have killed use your money to live in the lap of luxury? It is fair for them to live while they might have kidnapped, raped a little 6 year old girl numerious times then cut her to pieces hoping that she would never be identified? I don't see how you can do that. I would sleep even better knowing that all these people that have committed crimes such as this were put to death sooner instead of sitting on death row for 20-30 years.

-- Posted by get a clue on Tue, Apr 29, 2008, at 3:19 PM

In reference to the bill in committee by Rep. Deacon, "128 people have been released from death row nationally with evidence of their innocence; three of these people were from Missouri."

"In a series of ruling since 1991, the Supreme Court has drastically restricted the rights of death row prisoners to appeal their convictions and death sentences in federal courts, even in cases where prisoners present compelling evidence of innocences. In 1996, new legislation drastically limited federal court reviews of death penalty appeals, and gutted funding of legal aid services for death row prisoners."

On the executions moratorium the bill establishes a three year time period where a committee would investigate and report back to the Missouri House and Senate on the numerous intricacies on carrying out the ultimate penalty verses a sentence of life in prison without the possibility of parole.

Economics also play a part in our penal system. According to the national average it now costs five times more to put a prisoner to death verses incarcerating them for life.

As a side note. I watched a program last year on the History Channel about Americas prison system from it's establishment until the present. In the program they interviewed a man in Oklahoma and he played a song on the guitar called "Buried Alive." In Oklahoma he was keep in an underground prison awaiting execution. The underground prison utilizes it ground contact to reduce it's heating and cooling costs. Escape from this prison is virtually impossible. Prisoners would have to escape through the multiple security check point to get into the hallway that leads to the surface. One week before his scheduled execution he was found to be innocent of the crime for which he had been convicted. The finding of innocence does not mean a release from prison. It sometimes takes up to a year before the process is completed before they can be released from their cells.

On one of the three cases in Missouri both Governor Blunt and an assistance attorney general of Missouri resisted the release of one of the three persons being held on death row. When asked by the Supreme Court of the State of Missouri why the Attorney General's office and staff were still seeking the death penalty The Attorney representing the state replied that the man was found guilty by a legally constituted court of law, convicted by a jury of his piers and therefore the state should carry out the verdict of the jury and the order of the court.

As a final note, Rep. Deacon stated that in the beginning he was for the death penalty but based on the report findings that he could introduce the bill in order until the findings committee could report to the state legislature. At present there is a three-three split in on the bill and until there is an agreement in the committee the bill will never see the floor for consideration.

-- Posted by John Q. on Tue, Apr 29, 2008, at 2:46 PM

Many of those exonerated by DNA evidence in recent years were on death row for a long time. Information on "The Innocence Project" can be found here:

http://www.innocenceproject.org/

If appeals in death penalty cases were swift, a number of these inmates would be long dead, even though innocent.

I might be able to convince myself that the death penalty is warranted in a particular case, but my standard of proof would likely be higher than even the best lawyer could address.

Guess I'll just fall back on the Bible so oft-quoted in this blog: "'Vengeance is mine', saith the Lord."

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, Apr 29, 2008, at 1:46 PM

How about we put folks who have committed repeated lesser crimes on a boat and ship 'em off to where ever their boat hits land (as long as it's not back to the USA). They can become someone elses illegal immigration problem!

I am for the death penalty. A friend of our family was put to death 10years or so ago. He murdered, there for, he WAS murdered. He pled not guilty.... until the day he died. Then admitted his true action. Imagine, what would have happened if he won an appeal? More years sitting in a cell, having EVERY need being met. Perhaps, another person killed by his hands.

If you are not committing or thinking of committing a murder, why would you need to worry? An innocent person will be GLORIFIED with their LORD.

-- Posted by nomad on Tue, Apr 29, 2008, at 1:02 PM

I have not done the research, but my guess is that a very high percentage (i.e. 95% or higher) of appeals in death penalty cases are handled by public defenders (i.e. free attorneys for defendants). To accurately determine the taxpayer costs of incarcerating someone before he or she is put to death, one must factor in the costs of the public defenders since all taxpayers are footing that bill also.

-- Posted by OldOwl on Tue, Apr 29, 2008, at 12:18 PM

a five star hotel? what? even if you are only trying to be sarcastic with an attempt to prove a point, it still sounds like you might have skewed perception of reality. get a clue.

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Tue, Apr 29, 2008, at 10:20 AM

get a clue: You said " I think that the percentage of innocent people, with todays technology, is VERY low if none."

The number of innocent people executed is definitely not zero, so how many deaths would you be willing to tolerate before it's too many? Where is the point at which "very low" becomes unacceptably high?

Think of it this way: the percentage is VERY high if it's you, and you didn't commit the crime.

To be unfairly imprisoned for a long term is pretty ugly all by itself and the number of such imprisonments is getting higher as we speak. At least in those cases, the person can be released from prison.

The problem with the death penalty is that it's final. Could you sleep at night if you knew you'd sent the wrong person to his/her death? I'm certain I could not.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, Apr 29, 2008, at 9:49 AM

Mr. Crump,

Nothing in the country is 100%. Take a look at all the servicemen and women that are giving their lives for this country everyday. They are innocent as well when they die for us all. Does that make it right, no. Does that make it wrong? What is the answer there? They know what they are getting themselves into when inlisting right? But to die for what you believe in is right, right? But for a person that have committed a unspeakable crime is wrong? I think not. Innocent people die everyday for lesser things. I think that the percentage of innocent people, with todays technology, is VERY low if none.

I really don't think that people stop and evaluate that the alternative, getting a life sentence, is really not a alternative at all. They sit in prison soaking up tax dollers getting a education, free cable, showers, hot meals and a nice warm bed to sleep in. They are essentially at a 5 star resort for the rest of their lives and we the tax payers are paying for it. They kill and we pay for them to live. What is wrong with that picture?

-- Posted by get a clue on Tue, Apr 29, 2008, at 9:13 AM

"The law which attempts a man's life is impractical, unjust, inadmissible. It has never repressed crime -- for a second crime is every day committed at the foot of the scaffold"

~MARQUIS DE SADE~

Then again you must consider the source of the quote.

ROFL!!

Its not if IMO...Its how. I believe a bullet in the back of the head would be much cheaper and humane then current forms of execution.

We must keep the lengthy appeal process(7-8 years?) in place for Death Row inmates.. being that perhaps 1/2 dozen innocents have been wrongfully executed in the last 100 years. Other than that I don't see a problem with the current system.

Then again...my screen name is EiEiO.

Ü

-- Posted by EiEiO on Tue, Apr 29, 2008, at 8:52 AM

"my god is a forgiving god"???? read the good book, my friend. for every verse saying that, there's 5 that say the opposite. if i err, i prefer to do so on the side of authority. god bless you and help you to understand the way.

-- Posted by jesus4life on Tue, Apr 29, 2008, at 8:37 AM

wow, you guys and girls really are just riding JJ's wave.

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Tue, Apr 29, 2008, at 8:35 AM

"put someone to death? as long as racism, sexism, etc exist no jury should ever have that right" http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080417/ap_o...

-- Posted by JJGates on Wed, Apr 16, 2008, at 8:35 PM

unfortunately for all you JJ bashers,

JJ is spot on about prejudice and capital punishment. my god is a forgiving god. JJ is right...as usual.

-- Posted by Eff Ess on Tue, Apr 29, 2008, at 8:32 AM

on the death penalty, personally i am torn. the bible teaches us to kill all murderers, rapists, etc, take a hand from someone who shoplifts, stone those who commit adultery. i am for all of that (i have to be, im a christian), but in the case of capital punishment today, it is cheaper by far to keep someone in prison for life than to inject them. plus, michael vick could use some extras for the leavenworth version of "the longest yard"

-- Posted by jesus4life on Tue, Apr 29, 2008, at 8:19 AM

Get a clue,

You note that "God believes in punishing wrong doers." But who's doing the punishing on this earth? That's where I run into a problem with the death penalty. The legal system is a human institution. It does the best it can, but it inevitably makes mistakes.

The consequences of those mistakes, when it comes to the death penalty, are more than I care to risk.

It seems to me that when we ask the state to kill, we all bear the responsibility when an innocent person dies.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Tue, Apr 29, 2008, at 4:50 AM

John Q,

I do believe that if a life is taken, that the one that takes that life should be held accountable for it's actions. I do not believe in temperary insanity, except for JJ. It is just a easy way out for people that have killed to get off free. If the death penalty was enforced maybe people would think twice about their actions. "If I take a life and am caught, my life will be taken as well." Just what I believe in and what I think is right.

I am 100% for the death penalty in cases of murder and extreme abuse (like child molestation, repeated rape/incest that causes mental problems). I would actually be in favor of the punishment fitting the crime. So if some guy raped, brutally beat you, raped you again, then bludgened you to death, he would get the same.

And none of this 20 million appeals. If the evidence is clear (especially now with DNA technology) put those sickos to death within a month of sentancing.

God believes in punishing wrong doers. And most of the people that are committing the crime are repeat offenders that get off the first time. The legal system these days give a slap on the hand and let these people go. I think if you are going to commit this kind of crime you have to be prepared to except the penalty.

Again, just my thoughts.

-- Posted by get a clue on Tue, Apr 29, 2008, at 2:39 AM

JJ, you behave now, I'll see you at the meeting next month.

-- Posted by John Q. on Tue, Apr 29, 2008, at 1:11 AM

get a clue, do you think we should follow the Levitical laws in todays society?

-- Posted by John Q. on Tue, Apr 29, 2008, at 12:01 AM

The death penalty. My feelings are "An eye for an eye. A tooth for a tooth."

-- Posted by get a clue on Mon, Apr 28, 2008, at 11:53 PM

It is so funny JJ that you state that people here are "riding" your coat tails. Trust me, no one here wants to be you. Of all people to be, you certainly are not at the top of my list or on my list period. It is just so sad that people can not just come here and put there two cents in with out you coming out of the wood work ,like a cockroach, and disreguard people and their thoughts. It just proves what kind of person you truely are. I am sure you laugh more then the rest of us. You enjoy making other's lives a living heck and making them feel like they don't matter. To me, that is kind of sadistic. You truely have something to say, but more then none you have crap to start then want to accuse people of wanting to be you. I truely feel sorry for you.

I think that people come here to speak their mind about issues and know that they have a voice in their community, not to be blackballed and called "wanta-be's" by you.

-- Posted by get a clue on Mon, Apr 28, 2008, at 11:51 PM

I spent the majority of today in Jefferson City at a conference where they were discussing a house committee bill calling for a moratorium on the death penalty. After listening to both side of the discussion I came away with some different feelings on the issue. Does anyone have an opinion of the death penalty that they would like to share?

-- Posted by John Q. on Mon, Apr 28, 2008, at 11:49 PM

prd123,

JJ is locked in his cellar of stupidity all day so he has no time to get out into the real world. May it be Marshall or even Slater.

-- Posted by get a clue on Mon, Apr 28, 2008, at 9:39 PM

JJ,

Practice what you preach because this is what you do is preach and shove your thoughts down eveyone else's throat.

Speak out does not mean negative weird shout outs towards ANYONE by YOU!!!!

So, maybe the day you can respect other's oppinions, you will get that in return. Or maybe you will just remain stupid and lost.

"Know it all's" don't get the last laugh.

It is us that is doing the laughing at you and your continued self absorbed ignorance.

-- Posted by get a clue on Mon, Apr 28, 2008, at 9:36 PM

OUCH JJ! Was that supposed to hurt? I can't count but maybe 1 thing that was true about your statement, yes Slater did have Steve McQueen.........and Ken Taylor who you obviously never had the pleasure of knowing. Hmm no modern day racers? What about Ricky Kimberling, Sonny Kimberling, Bryan Grimes, Brett Shepard, those aren't modern day racers? 2 cops huh- wow you obviously can't count....it goes like this 1-2-3-4-5-6-7. That's 4 full time, and 3 part time= 7.

No curbs or drains? Gosh how long has it been since you've been to Slater? Evidently years. Every street in Slater has been paved in the last 10 yrs...no holes, like Marshall. They also just completed a million dollar storm sewer project, if you don't understand what that means, it includes CURB AND GUTTERING.

As far as Marshall being the perfect place for the 911 center......well that's just a matter of opinion.

So AGAIN- get your facts straight and make it worth reading about!

-- Posted by prd123 on Mon, Apr 28, 2008, at 9:33 PM

Finally a comment from JJ on 911. Thought maybe you just weren't educated enough to comment- looks like I was right! Why don't you come up with something new and worth reading.

-- Posted by prd123 on Mon, Apr 28, 2008, at 8:40 PM

Well I guess you're right Kathy, it doesn't matter where the 911 center is at long as it's in Marshall. No place else in the county could possibly have a disaster especially when the entire board except for ONE knew where it was going all along! It has been told that the site chosen DID NOT meet the published criteria. IMAGINE THAT.

When is the city of Marshall going to cut checks to the Saline County Ambulance District and the Health Dept to keep things fair.........or are they?

Looks like the rest of the county will be funding another facility with no one but Marshall having access. Thought this was supposed to be a fair site proposal. Looks like that was a waste of time and money for all involved. Hope the rest of the center doesn't get done the same way or it will be a waste of time and tax payers money also.

-- Posted by prd123 on Mon, Apr 28, 2008, at 8:38 PM

My dear Rex,

In a battle of wits, you are unarmed. Remember, it's better to be thought a fool and say nothing then to open your mouth and remove all doubt. Say hi to JJ for me.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Apr 28, 2008, at 7:37 PM

The location of the 911 Center really doesn't matter very much. There are some states where some very small counties have banded together for economic reasons, and the center itself is located in one of as many as 3 or 4 counties.

As far as weather is concerned, there is really no one place within Saline County (or anywhere else in the world)that is entirely safe from large storms, or a tornado, and as we have recently seen, even an earthquake.

I certainly agree that it makes a great deal of sense to take those current offers that don't require a purchase of land.

One definite requirement is that the center cannot be located at the same site where other emergency services exist; that is, it can't be sited at the Marshall Police Department or at the Slater Ambulance District office, for example.

There should be plenty of room for future expansion; it also makes sense that it not be located in an area that floods frequently or that isn't easily accessible by a helicopter or other method, in the event of widespread damage elsewhere in the county.

The commission will make its decision soon. Those with concerns should contact recently-elected members of the 911 commission and make their concerns known.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Mon, Apr 28, 2008, at 5:25 PM

kt_01

As far as gas prices I agree. The oil companies will give any number of excuses, but as I have said before I have not seen even one station out of gas. Am I the only one who thinks that is a little odd? I think we are all waiting to vote democratic in Nov. That is something that we can do about it.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Apr 28, 2008, at 4:48 PM

Truckdrivers are in washington protesting the high gas prices. I wish more of this country would do what they are doing.

We pay crazy gas prices while oil companies make huge profits. Its insane we do nothing about this. As long as bush is in office it will not change.He is one that is reaping the benifits of it all since he comes from oil money. When Bush took office gas was 1.79 a gallon.American people are being fed a load of crap as to why gas prices are so high. yet we sit back and do nothing but complain. The truck drivers have the right idea.

Oh,and JJ keep your stupid comments about this post to yourself. No one is impressed by your stupid remarks on every post that pops up.From what ive read it seems you are getting on alot of nerves in this section. I can see why. Try to post about something that matters. I know its hard for you to do. Speak out does not mean negative weird shout outs from you.

-- Posted by kt_01 on Mon, Apr 28, 2008, at 4:40 PM

nana i think that you are on the right track thats for sure. I'm not saying the 911 shouldnt be in Marshall but this is something that needs to be addressed. 1st of all the cheapest bid needs to be looked at to save us tax payers some money one day we hope. My biggest concern with it going in marshall is that if we ever have a natural diaster that wipes Marshall hard we loose a sheriff's jail, a dang good ambulance district and fire dept. The thought of also loosing central contact in the whole county is scary i think. I hope that our board looks hard into all options on where the building should be placed for the best result in a time of need. Hopefully we never have a diaster that would put a town down but you never know. I think this topic should be adressed for comments and concerns by the Marshall Democrat news. It shouldnt be a poll but a topic of interest. Thanks for reading my thoughts...

-- Posted by SalineFire on Mon, Apr 28, 2008, at 3:36 PM

Rex,

I'm not sure what vendetta you are talking about. JJ's comments aren't funny even by sophomoric standards but you are right about one thing, I didn't ask you. JJ has every right to make asinine comments and I have every right to call them on it.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Apr 28, 2008, at 3:20 PM

I agree with Missouriwoman.. I too was in a funeral and it seemed like no one would pull over for it.. I think they are disrespectful to.. We need help from the MPD on this too.. When people see the police car, than they pull over..

-- Posted by missouriwoman3 on Mon, Apr 28, 2008, at 3:13 PM

what the f......, nothing screams for more attention than your name.

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Mon, Apr 28, 2008, at 7:59 AM

Nice try J.J.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Apr 28, 2008, at 11:29 AM

Here is a link to the Missouri Driver's Guide. Find information about funeral processions at the website listed below, on page 63.

http://dor.mo.gov/mvdl/drivers/dlguide/d...

Note there are rules for both sides of the question - drivers who are *in* the procession have rules, too.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Mon, Apr 28, 2008, at 9:37 AM

This story includes details of the 8 sites being considered for the 9-1-1 dispatch center. Some are at no cost; others would have to be purchased. Members of the 9-1-1 commission will be making a decision on where the center will be; citizens of Saline County will not have another opportunity to vote on this issue.

www.marshallnews.com/story/1318192.html

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Mon, Apr 28, 2008, at 9:29 AM

Do people even know the meaning of RESPECT these days?? I don't think they do.. As a child we were taught that darning a funeral possession that you pull over. I recently attended a funeral and you just wouldn't believe how disrespect people are.. What is wrong with people? Have they just not been taught to be RESPECTFUL? Or is it that they are just very DISREPECTFUL AND UNCARING PEOPLE.

We were leaving a local funeral home here in Marshall and on the way to the cemetery and was almost cut off at an intersection and then when we got on the double hwy, people were passing us. I find this very rude, and DISREPECFUL.

Maybe there should be more info in the newspapers, radio stations, tv and in schools, and parents should talk with their children about RESPECT.

While I'm on the subject, What happened to RESPECT YOUR ELDERS? We were always taught that also. I could go on and on about RESPECT but I believe this is enough for now.

-- Posted by missouriwoman on Mon, Apr 28, 2008, at 9:29 AM

what the f......, nothing screams for more attention than your name.

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Mon, Apr 28, 2008, at 7:59 AM

What are we wanting JJ?

How about an actual useful comment from you for a change. Your sad little quest for attention is growing very tiresome.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Apr 28, 2008, at 6:39 AM

prd123 has a very good point. I'm very concerned about Saline County's way of thinking. Wouldn't this proposed site be voted on by Saline Citizens? This is something to follow and be heard when the time comes.

-- Posted by nomad on Sun, Apr 27, 2008, at 10:14 PM

I attended the third annual State of Saline County in Slater last Thursday night. While I was there I was talking to some people about 911. It was mentioned during this conversation that Marshall was offering free land for the site as they were concerned it might go in Slater.

If this is the case the City of Marshall should refund Saline County's Ambulance money for the land on Arrow and pay the Health Dept the cost of their land.

Looks to me like they knew those sites had to locate in Marshall so they didn't give them anything.....BUT, a facility that could go to Slater, on a better site from what I was told, Marshall is willing to give FREE LAND!! Is this a double standard??

As I was told Slater people are sure asked to support the Health Dept, Courthouse Renovations, jail tax, and the 911 tax, but aren't supposed to want anything from them.

If Slater is the most practical place for 911 then it should be there. Save the tax payers some money, for once.

-- Posted by prd123 on Sun, Apr 27, 2008, at 9:34 PM

The glaring difference between the oil crisis of the 70's and what's going on now is that I have yet to see any station that is out of gas. We are being bled dry for the sole sake of greed.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Apr 27, 2008, at 6:35 PM

if our presiding commissioner would be lt. gov. our state is in trouble, all she does is want to raise taxes, i guess that is one way of getting her out of the court house, but poor missouri

-- Posted by saline on Sun, Apr 27, 2008, at 6:08 PM

Gas prices are going nuts. Nut prices (and most other groceries) are going up. A story in the NY Times today talking about how people are getting by includes this quote: "It hasn't gotten to human food mixed with pet food yet, but it is certainly headed in that direction."

www.nytimes.com/2008/04/27/business/27sp...

I wonder what everyone's doing around here to make ends meet. I know I'm having flashbacks to the late 1970s, when I was in the habit of coasting down hills to save gas.

Anybody thinking about taking up bicycling? :-)

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Sun, Apr 27, 2008, at 12:43 PM

I haven't followed the Chief's draft, but I was glad to see the Bears take an offensive tackle in the first round. With a weak backfield, they need some talent up front!

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Sun, Apr 27, 2008, at 12:35 PM

i thought so to! but why do your posts show up in JJland? oh yeah because you live there........

-- Posted by JJGates

This sounds so mature. Not. How old are you 12.

-- Posted by kt_01 on Sun, Apr 27, 2008, at 1:42 AM

Of course she knows what she is doing! She's trying to get attention from someone in Jefferson City that may consider her for another appointed position (Conservation Commission). I thought the same thing when I saw the "I want to throw my name in the hat" line. Who says that if they are serious about getting elected? I guarantee that most serious candidates would never say that. Which makes me wonder....what's the catch here? What appointment is she looking for next? Why does she want to be Lt. Governor? What can she bring Missouri that she's brought Saline County? Why would ANYONE waist money on a half-a$$ campaign?

-- Posted by onpoint on Sat, Apr 26, 2008, at 3:36 PM

According to the 'Marshall Democrat News' (03/25/08) Commissioner Becky Plattner announced she is seeking the office of lieutenant governor and filed Friday, March 21, to be on the August primary ballot. In the announcement she stated: "I'm not going to run a hard campaign," I am committed to serving the people of Saline County. I just want to get my name in the hat…."

According the 'Slater Main Street News' (04/24/08) Commissioner Becky Plattner announced on April 19 the she will be running for Lt. Governor in the 2012 election. In the announcement she stated: "…I have given this much thought…My focus will be on the 2012 election and I hope…I will be the next Lieutant Governor of Missouri."

She is still listed on the 2008 ballot, according the Sec. of State Robin Carnahan' web site. According the Mo Ethics Commission web site, no reports have been received about financial disclosure, direct expenditures, campaign/campaign committee report, or a statement of exemption. Can someone explain these apparent errors, oversights, ethical lapses and mixed messages or did I miss something in political science class?

Is Becky Plattner running for Lt. Governor this year and announcing her "re-election" campaign a month later? Has she withdrawn from the 2008 election? Is she stating she will not run commissioner again? Does she plan on running "hard" in 2012 and use 2008 as a 'rehearsal'? Does she plan on filing campaign finance reports required by law? Does she have any idea what she is doing?

-- Posted by saline mo on Sat, Apr 26, 2008, at 2:07 PM

Where the heck is JJland? Oh, in your own LITTLE mind. Must be nice to have your own pretend world. Goes back to you being so lonely. You are truely your own best friend. Must be nice to be so lonely in JJland. This is where you come to get noticed because otherwise no one would know who the heck you are or even care.

-- Posted by get a clue on Fri, Apr 25, 2008, at 10:35 PM

You wish you were the MASTER JJ.

You are the MASTER of your own little world but that is it I am afraid.

-- Posted by get a clue on Fri, Apr 25, 2008, at 10:04 PM

I wonder if JJ has a cell phone and a house phone. That way he can call himself to hear his own voice much as he does on this Web site. Geeeeez.

-- Posted by Muffin on Fri, Apr 25, 2008, at 4:09 PM

Bil Lepp is like the JJGates of storytelling. I'll be there!!

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Thu, Apr 24, 2008, at 8:38 AM

wow would i rather see jeff gordon race or listen to a story? lets hope the rapture happens between now and 7

-- Posted by jesus4life on Thu, Apr 24, 2008, at 8:32 AM

The best tall tales start small. A little boy meets a new boy in the neighborhood. Two kids decide a woodpecker would make a good pet. Two teens get a good idea for a practical joke to play on the community.

And then one thing leads to another.

I hope everybody who loves a good tale will get to the Municipal Court Building, 11 E. Eastwood, in Marshall at 7 p.m. tonight to see Bil Lepp.

Getting a chance to see Bil tell stories is comparable to seeing Tony Stewart or Jeff Gordon race or seeing Trace Adkins sing or seeing Alex Gordon hit a dinger.

Or think about it this way: About 95 percent of the best musicians in the world have day jobs. (OK, I made that statistic up, but you know what I mean.)

Bil doesn't.

He's been a full time storyteller for about five years. He has performed numerous times at the National Storytelling Festival in Jonesboro, Tenn., and is on the program again this year. That's like going to the World Series every year.

I saw him perform at the Jonesboro festival last year. It was a hot, hot day. People selling bottled water were making plans to buy yachts. And under a big tent, Bil would have had more than 1,000 wilting people rolling in the aisles if there had been aisle. But he packed in so many people that the tent was jammed and overflowing. People stood in the hammering sun to hear him.

And all we gotta get past is a little rain. Hope to see you all there tonight!

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Thu, Apr 24, 2008, at 8:09 AM

jj, I'll give you a quote from Mark Twain that goes along with you words. "for that fact, sometimes a patriots job is to protect his country from its government".

-- Posted by John Q. on Wed, Apr 23, 2008, at 11:42 PM

John Q.,

So I'm assuming that you've accepted eternal damnation? I'll pray for you.

-- Posted by i <3 huckabee on Tue, Apr 22, 2008, at 1:49 PM

Happy Earth Day, everyone!

-- Posted by Green Eyes on Tue, Apr 22, 2008, at 12:26 PM

i <3 huckabee, I feel uncomfortable around "religious people" because of this very behavior. It's not a giant leap from wanting to live and do everything for God to living your life and expecting God to do everything for you. If you will, Christianity is a state of willingness to share and do for others freely and unselfishly in the name of Christ. We are taught to reach out and lift others up not browbeat and put others down. It's not a condition of authority but servant hood. If a person is totally honest about his beliefs in God, Yahweh, Alla, or whomever you pray to or have faith in, count the number of times last week that you asked God to help you do something instead of offering yourself to do something for God. Christianity is a relationship with God through Jesus Christ. A relationship of servitude. Not a badge of honor as though we had won something.

-- Posted by John Q. on Tue, Apr 22, 2008, at 10:44 AM

The only thing I have a problem with is onions. They're supposed to be the unkillable plant; we stick 'em in the ground and it's all over but the shoutin'.

-- Posted by "When the Music Plays..." on Tue, Apr 22, 2008, at 9:27 AM

John Q.,

Why is it that you feel uncomfortable around religious people? Is it because you know that we will be spending eternity with our Lord and Saviour while you heathens burn in hell?

-- Posted by i <3 huckabee on Tue, Apr 22, 2008, at 8:30 AM

correction: that should read "happiness"

god bless

-- Posted by jesus4life on Tue, Apr 22, 2008, at 8:16 AM

jj you derive your wisdom from the ultimate source of truth...the bible...all these perceived "contradictions" you have cited merely means that when you read the bible, god is not with you. pray harder, then read again. may god bless marshall and may you all find herpiness.

-- Posted by jesus4life on Tue, Apr 22, 2008, at 8:16 AM

JJ is really the only constant in life. God bless JJ and God bless the USA.

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Tue, Apr 22, 2008, at 8:07 AM

I've made my position know in my writings. I feel uncomfortable around religious people. This bantering back and forth using Jesus and arguing through scriptures will probably never convince anyone to change sides. Making light of something that many hold dear only exacerbates the situation. I for one will go back to my blog and finish my article on guns and people killing people. Somehow it seems more peaceful writing that blog than trying to be a voice of reason over here.

-- Posted by John Q. on Tue, Apr 22, 2008, at 1:00 AM

Oklahoma Reader, I don't have access to your name through the paper. The web site is administered off site. Yes I would like to go to the sites and read poetry that comes from the heart. As I have said to others feel free to contact me here in Marshall. I'm in the book. Fax # is 4292

-- Posted by John Q. on Tue, Apr 22, 2008, at 12:52 AM

See Marshall's History

www.sportsmansspeedwaymarshall.com

-- Posted by Sportsmans Speedway Marshall on Mon, Apr 21, 2008, at 8:11 PM

Hilarious comment Smokin Cheetah.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Apr 21, 2008, at 6:35 PM

John McCain is the only pres. candidate that does not have initial plans to raise taxes if elected. There are official sources to back that up. Does that alter the liberal mindset to vote for him, or is liberalism a disease that has no cure?

-- Posted by onpoint on Mon, Apr 21, 2008, at 5:39 PM

Smokin' Cheetah,

Are you suggesting suicide?

-- Posted by i <3 huckabee on Mon, Apr 21, 2008, at 4:57 PM

last time i checked, laws on obscenity aren't in the bible.

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Mon, Apr 21, 2008, at 3:14 PM

also, jj, free speech is limited by laws against obscenity. so, for example, if someone had the screenname "what the f....." if that were to be taken as objectionable by the reasonable person, it should be removed i think. god bless and keep you all, my marshall brothers.

-- Posted by jesus4life on Mon, Apr 21, 2008, at 1:57 PM

jj, the students free speech and journals are not what got him in trouble. Buying the bomb making materials and having them shipped to his parents home are what got him hammered. Also, not all speech is protected. Try yelling fire in a theater or basketball arena and you'll find out that statement is not protected. Speech intended to start a riot, or threatening the president of members of congress or calling in bomb threats are also exceptions to the rule of free speech. As for guns, they serve a purpose. The second amendment of the Constitution guarantees a persons right to keep and bear. Exceptions are allowed by both federal and state law pertaining to convict felons or mentally unstable individuals. There's probably some more that I don't recall right now.

Some states have restrictions that really get to me. I was visiting in Illinois and wanted to but some shells for my rifle. Walmart refused to sell them to me because I didn't have an "Illinois Gun Owners Permit."

-- Posted by John Q. on Mon, Apr 21, 2008, at 11:46 AM

Stinkypinky, The comments you made about Obama are erroneous (not true). If you are feeding off Fox News and/or the spurious (fake truth) E mails flying around about Obama you have been misinformed. Your sources are no friend to you as they have lied to you, and therefore do not respect you. Please go to Snopes.com or Factcheck when you recieve any thing from these sources in the future. You will find that Snopes.com defends both George Bush, and Barak Obama when untruths are perpetrated (told) about them. They check it out , and give a narrative (story) in detail about the subject in question. I believe that once you have sniffed the truth it will take your mind off malodorous matters.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Apr 21, 2008, at 12:45 AM

John Q. Sorry for the late reply. Yes it was an original poem. It came to me as I read your blog Waterboarding. You are welcome to use it as you wish. Poems are really cheap in our society, in this case free. If you are interested there are several I wrote at the time this awful war started that are posted at Voices In War Time, and Poets Against The War. I think you probably have access to my name through the newspaper. Just go to the websites, plug in my name, and it will take you to them. By the way there are many good poems at those sites.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Mon, Apr 21, 2008, at 12:10 AM

jj, We're not talking about stealing something here. We're talking about committing an overt act in furtherance of committing the crime (a felony). If Handel had stayed home I doubt anything would have happened. The high school senior in jail today in South Carolina had fantasies of destroying his school with the real possibility of other students being killed. You can state you intentions in a diary or make a death video to be played after the fact; it could be argued that this was speech protected by the Constitution, but when you purchase bomb making materials and have them delivered to your house that's the overt act that put him in jail. Just like the Handel case the prosecutor's in South Carolina will use the writings and video to establish his intent.

-- Posted by John Q. on Sun, Apr 20, 2008, at 11:08 PM

JJ thinks he is the smartest person here. And he is not full of himself. You and I both know what he IS full of. Watch and see what kind of responce I get. It is that wonderful intellegence talking, lol.

-- Posted by get a clue on Sat, Apr 19, 2008, at 11:58 PM

Ok I am new to this but I would like to make a comment on this "Handel" story. My thoughts on this is what if it was not a police set up and there really was a 14 year old girl. He had every intention of going to her house and sleeping with her. What if that was your 14 year old son or daughter, if it was mine I would want the sicko in jail for a very long time. A 29 year old has no reason for wanting to ruin a 14 year olds life. It is bad enough that in todays society our children are have sex at an earlier age but for an adult to want to add the preassure to our kids is just sick and they dont need to be on our streets to hurt our children. We should be to protect the kids of our socity not put them in harms way.

-- Posted by mommaof2 on Sat, Apr 19, 2008, at 3:13 PM

There's more evidence in cases like this than just a person showing up and knocking on a door. There's also all the transcripts of online conversations tied to the suspect that establish intent. If a person says, "I'm going to come over to your house and buy drugs at 4 p.m. Tuesday" then shows up at 4 p.m. Tuesday you have at least circumstantial evidence to indicate intent to commit a crime.

I see your point though. What if the whole online conversation was a joke? Or a game that the law enforcement agents didn't understand?

Ah, but what separates this case from a drug deal is the victim. If the cops wait to make the arrest until after an actual crime has been committed, there's a victim whose life may be ruined.

And of course, in this case Handel was not charged with having sex with a minor. He was charged with an "attempt to entice a minor to engage in illegal sexual activity."

Online conversation to set a meeting + showing up at the door does seem like a fairly clear attempt to me.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Sat, Apr 19, 2008, at 9:44 AM

JJ in this case it is not entrapment. The courts have found in another case that it was not entrapment when an undercover police office laid down next to the street when he saw a suspected mugger walking down the block. When the suspect walked up to the police officer he tried to mug him and take any valuables that he had. The police officer didn't entrap him. He only provided an opportunity and the mugger acted. Just like undercover drug deals and buying stolen property, no one makes a person commit a crime, they do this out of their own motivation. The same applies to this arrest.

John Q.

-- Posted by John Q. on Sat, Apr 19, 2008, at 1:14 AM

wow. you guys really like to go out of your way to bash on JJ. you are just internet bullies.

-- Posted by Eff Ess on Fri, Apr 18, 2008, at 11:43 PM

This poor guy really needs to get out more.

-- Posted by tigger2118 on Fri, Apr 18, 2008, at 8:21 PM

We should appreciate what we have when we look at JJ Gates, it's sad that every article I read on this website has his opinion pasted at the end. I feel bad for the guy.

-- Posted by tigger2118 on Fri, Apr 18, 2008, at 6:23 PM

I think onpoint is just that.

People in general who think every soldier overseas should be brought home don't seem to think about the consequences.

Understandably, parents with sons and daughters in Iraq don't want their children to die.

I think of Meryl Streep's character in "Lions for Lambs;" she asked why we're still fighting this war when World War II only took four years, but later was apparently afraid Tom Cruise would consider "Big toys" to win the war.

Does the character remember HOW we ended WWII?

Not saying anything like that would be justified, it's just the hypocrisy of it.

I don't know, maybe the world is falling into shambles after all.

-- Posted by "When the Music Plays..." on Fri, Apr 18, 2008, at 5:34 PM

bc65340, that was a low blow. you must be jealous that JJ has already won the hearts and minds of all.

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Fri, Apr 18, 2008, at 4:15 PM

Reference the inquiry of a full scale troop withdrawal in Iraq.........

Disaster, plain and simple. Fact is, it will never happen unless a liberal gets in office, period. All I know is that progression is happening over there and despite all the civilians that you hear say "our soldiers are getting killed left and right over there, bring them all home", we are doing some good. Bless those that have died in battle! They have not died in vain! They died so that you all can type whatever and whenever you want on this forum, so that we all can sleep peacefully at night knowing we are safe, and that they are serving God by protecting those who cannot protect themselves. If any of you that read this are one of those people that serve in the military, Thank You! If you are one that blames our leaders for the death's of our soldiers, shame on you! Those soldiers that died were not drafted, nor were they coerced into enlisting in the military. They did it with honor. Don't take that from them!

Ulitmately, our troops will always be deployed SOMEWHERE! Whether its 10,000 soldiers or 100, there will always be an operation in foreign territory. It would be foolish for us to pull out now, especially with all that we've done and as much as we've accomplished.

-- Posted by onpoint on Fri, Apr 18, 2008, at 4:05 PM

hey jj i dont think its just theory just your true colors coming out. "i could buy a gun and a half gallon of canadian mist, sit in the back of my truck and watch teen girls at recess" only you would think of that. alittle Freudian slip maybe

-- Posted by bc65340 on Fri, Apr 18, 2008, at 3:56 PM

Wow, with all their troubles in Sweet Springs they can manage to have a number one FFA chapter. Certainly shows the advisors there are really interested in the program and the students. Kudos!

-- Posted by Muffin on Fri, Apr 18, 2008, at 2:54 PM

I'd like to toss a few sticks on the "issue fire;" I'd like to know a few opinions (even JJ's) on a full-scale troop withdrawal from the middle-east.

What would the effects be?

Can we really assume all will work out if we pull the dam holding back the flood?

I'm not sure any good could come from that, let alone the bad we'd be inviting to happen.

-- Posted by "When the Music Plays..." on Fri, Apr 18, 2008, at 1:41 PM

Enough with the lies, smears, falsehoods being spread about Barack Obama. Let's talk about some of the issue's that really matter; Issues such as healthcare, education, Iraq. Obama is a Christian, he is a patriot (not patriotic because there is not a flag on his label? George Bush has worn one for years, how has that worked out/helped us?). Obama voted to require the Pledge of Allegiance to be said in high schools; he used the family bible to take the oath of office............Now I have seen an a-mail attacking his wife and her college thesis! Give me a break. I am more concerned about $4/gallon gas; rising food prices and paying my utility bills. We are all entitled to support any of the candidates; but we need to make sure that decision is derived from facts and research; not lies, innuendos, e-mail falsehoods.

-- Posted by saline mo on Fri, Apr 18, 2008, at 12:09 PM

In JJ's usual way of things he's actually made a bit of a point (other than the fact he's slamming Catholics and Mormons).

I don't usually get involved in politics, but I'm getting a little ticked off with certain people referring to Obama the way they have.

It's one thing to say he's a Muslim, another all together to put him in the same class (lowest) as some of these radical, terror reeking jihadists.

I'm not the man's biggest supporter, but it doesn't mean I'm going to go off the deep end and start making unfounded and plain stupid claims.

I won't say he'll make a good or bad president either way, but civility doesn't have to be tossed out the window, either.

-- Posted by "When the Music Plays..." on Fri, Apr 18, 2008, at 11:15 AM

Stinky pinky, the Muslim holy book is the Koran not the "coran" He is NOT a muslim. I will open my "yap" whenever I feel necessary this is America isn't it?? I will not argue with you because arguing with a fool proves that there are two. Use spell check before you respond. Have a nice day!

-- Posted by dhok on Fri, Apr 18, 2008, at 9:27 AM

I did happen to wake up at that time for some reason, but I can't say that I felt it, but then again maybe that is why I woke up.

-- Posted by me1234 on Fri, Apr 18, 2008, at 7:57 AM

From The Associated Press:

"A 5.4 earthquake centered in southern Illinois rocked people awake throughout the Midwest Friday morning, including in Missouri.

It happened just before 4:37 a.m. and was centered near West Salem, Ill., about 150 miles east of St. Louis."

Dang thing woke me up! Anybody else feel it?

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Fri, Apr 18, 2008, at 6:34 AM

Dear dhok,

If you will do your homework before you run your yap, Obama swore into his position in Illinois with his hand on the Coran. He refuses to wear his U.S. lapel flag pin. And he IS Muslim. No matter what church he attends. Even though his church is run by a racist,pitiful QUACK rev. Wright. Listen up Obama WILL send this country to new lows. Get smart. I am a Republican and would rather see Hillary in there instead of Barack Hussein Obama.

-- Posted by IPOH on Fri, Apr 18, 2008, at 4:37 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
More homework:

According to respected debunker of legends, misunderstandings and half-truths, Snopes.com:

"Claim: 'ALSO, keep in mind that when he was sworn into office he DID NOT use the Holy Bible, but instead the Koran.'

This statement is completely false. It is a mistaken reference to a different politician, Minnesota congressman Keith Ellison, not Barack Obama."

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/Mus...

Ellison is Muslim.

Obama is Christian.

Members of Congress do not swear on a religious book when taking the official oath of office, but many put their hand on the Bible during private ceremonies or photo opportunities. Ellison used a copy of the Quran once owned by Thomas Jefferson.

http://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/07012/oath.h...

I haven't found a source that says with any authority whether Obama swore on any book when taking office in Illinois, but here's what the Illinois constitution has to say on the matter (nothing):

"SECTION 3. OATH OR AFFIRMATION OF OFFICE

Each prospective holder of a State office or other State position created by this Constitution, before taking office, shall take and subscribe to the following oath or affirmation:

'I do solemnly swear (affirm) that I will support the Constitution of the United States, and the Constitution of the State of Illinois, and that I will faithfully discharge the duties of the office of .... to the best of my ability.'"

( http://www.ilga.gov/commission/lrb/conen... )

HOLY COW!!!!

I had no idea, not to bring up old news, my screen name is soooo offensive. But you all know those Democrat "elitists" always think they are above all others. I think Jesus4life supports Hussein Obama Bin Laden. Anyway it is only offensive if YOU generate the inuendo!!!! Ding dong round 3 lets go.

-- Posted by IPOH on Fri, Apr 18, 2008, at 4:25 AM

OK what the f gets the facts straight

Fitzgerald did not charge Libby for outing Valerie Plame to columnist Robert Novak for two reasons. First, because he knew that the person who really outed Plame to Novak was not Libby or anyone else in the White House, but rather was Richard Armitage, Colin Powell's incessantly gossipy deputy. Second, because Plame was not a "covert agent" within the meaning of The Intelligence Identities Protection Act of 1982, one of the two statutes available to Fitzgerald in his investigation.

http://www.examiner.com/a-543221~Potenti...

-- Posted by The Conservative on Thu, Apr 17, 2008, at 8:15 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Just to be clear: The words above beginning with "Fitzgerald did not charge..." are a direct quote from the article. Thanks, Conservative, for including the link (shows you're doing your research!) but some indication of where your words end and your source's begin would be a good idea. Quote marks work, but that's not the only way to make it clear who's saying what. Without ways of distinguishing whose words are whose we end up with a terrible muddle.

Obviously, you two are Obama supporters. The way I introduced his name is the way I've seen it for the last 2-weeks, so there you go. I swear, I think everyone on here just looks for a reason to twist things around even when someone is seriously trying to enquire about a real issue. NEVERMIND! I'll take my questions elswhere...obviously there are no educated views here.

-- Posted by onpoint on Thu, Apr 17, 2008, at 5:47 PM

Onpoint, it is clear that you are not being a "smart @$$" because you can't even spell the man's name correctly. It's Barack Obama. He is not a muslim. Furthermore I believe the only thing YOU choose to see about Obama is negative. I've seen many positives in his campaign.

-- Posted by dhok on Thu, Apr 17, 2008, at 4:50 PM

How about Barak Osama Bid-Laden Obama? Does anyone on this forum support him? If so, please explain why! I'm not being a smart @$$, but really...I'm trying to find out what good things come from this candidate that people support. I've seen nothing but negative evidence against him so far...

-- Posted by onpoint on Thu, Apr 17, 2008, at 4:34 PM

Now I am insulted. I am most certainly not jj, using the username BD42. I actually can't stand jj's posts. This is the only one where I thought he made a good point and since I have complained about him in the past, I thought it was important to let him know when I agree with him. Please do not start thinking I am jj!!!!!

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Thu, Apr 17, 2008, at 3:56 PM

No,

I think you've just revealed that JJ acutally posts under three different screen names.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Apr 17, 2008, at 12:13 PM

"...I think you [reference to JJ] are right on the money..."

-- Posted by BD42 on Thu, Apr 17, 2008, at 8:29 AM

"...jj may be the only person in marshall with his finger on the pulse of America"

-- Posted by jesus4life on Wed, Apr 16, 2008, at 11:21 PM

Today is a glorious day!!!!!! I'm glad others are starting to see the light. JJ, feed us with your wisdom.

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Thu, Apr 17, 2008, at 9:42 AM

jj,

It might pain me to say so but I think you are right on the money with your response to the death penalty for rapists.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Thu, Apr 17, 2008, at 8:29 AM

Could someone bring me up to speed on when the mayor told David Kemm "this is your last chance". What was the context or why did she even say that? I think Dave's clean up program is wonderful and he should be applauded for his efforts. Good work Dave.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Apr 17, 2008, at 7:55 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Mayor Latimer has long supported David's efforts:

http://www.marshallnews.com/story/117815...

In April last year there was some concern on the council that he was starting to hold too many clean-up days and the council recommended having one per year:

http://www.marshallnews.com/story/119911...

But I think the comment in question occurred here, when the mayor simply reminded David that he was supposed to hold one per year. The quote we published was Latimer saying this clean-up was a "one time shot" not a "last chance" as has been reported.

http://www.marshallnews.com/story/130980...

I thought I would never say this, but congratulations to David Kemm!

His city cleanup day was his best yet and it's nice to see someone taking positive steps to make their little part of the world a better place.

It's a good thing he didn't get discouraged by the Mayor's comment "this is your last chance." Nice job David!

-- Posted by Cheese on Wed, Apr 16, 2008, at 11:48 PM

after reading though these posts, i think jj may be the only person in marshall with his finger on the pulse of America

-- Posted by jesus4life on Wed, Apr 16, 2008, at 11:21 PM

i would like to say if i went in to hr block and was treated that way i would have asked to speak to the owner because i have heard other people talk about how rude the office manager is. and i personally think hr is better than goin to an accountant cause at least they sit down and explain things to you and not just you drop it off and come back in a couple weeks to pick it up. on the other hand about the RALs if people choose to get there money that way that is on them not everybody has a checking or savings account to get direct deposit.

-- Posted by me456 on Wed, Apr 16, 2008, at 10:01 PM

H&R - just posting to agree that I think almost anyone probably is better than H&R, well especially that one on Odell. I filed there last year and the accountant had NO CLUE how to use her own computer and how to mark yes, no, or enter in information that I was telling her. I had to explain to her where to scroll down, etc. I finally just took the keyboard away from her and did it all myself. I never spoke up to anyone and just paid the full price. I'm a chicken, but I learned my lesson the expensive way and won't be repeating my mistake. I do like the boxed tax programs you can buy as well as the online ones.

-- Posted by me1234 on Wed, Apr 16, 2008, at 7:54 PM

I agree - put the rapist to death. Eventually he would get out of jail and do it again.

-- Posted by Cat Lover on Wed, Apr 16, 2008, at 5:24 PM

Sex crimes of this calibur. Yes

Repeated sex offenders. Yes

If someone committs "Cruel and unusual" acts causing death or dismemberment requiring surgery- they should ,case by case, not be alive.

-- Posted by nomad on Wed, Apr 16, 2008, at 5:08 PM

I am not trying to protect the rapist but I know of a girl that "cryed wolf" she said that one of her teachers had raped her and she tried to get him fired. Come to find out later that she had made it all up to get the teacher fired and to get a better grade, but the damage had been done and he got fired and spent some time in jail. So in this area its hard to say yes or no but having some of my own family members raped I to see where this would fell right to put them to death but, myself I couldn't make that descition.

-- Posted by timeaftertime on Wed, Apr 16, 2008, at 3:58 PM

Cruel and unusual punishment is what he inflicted on the child so I could really care less about him. Take him out.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Apr 16, 2008, at 3:38 PM

Why get the Rapid Refund or the RAL and pay all the fees to begin with. It only takes 10 days or less to have the $$ direct deposited into your account, surely you can wait 2 weeks.

-- Posted by prd123 on Wed, Apr 16, 2008, at 9:05 AM

To kaynmo - Thanks for the eye opening information. I personally don't use H & R, but have considered it thinking it might be cheaper than my own personal accountant. Based on your information, I think I'll stay where I am.

To catlover - Amen! Spencer is a wonderful person; too bad we couldn't talk him into running for school board! But he's smarter enough to know better than to throw himself into that fire! Kudos to him and all he does!!!

-- Posted by outsidelookin'in on Wed, Apr 16, 2008, at 8:29 AM

Change of Subject: Have you noticed that right after a raise in utilities usually there follows something that the Utility Board wants to build. Hats off to Spencer Fricke who said Quote: "I'm not convinced we need this at this time." "We have a lot of expensive projects going on and we're raising rates. Wish we had more Spencer Fricke's in the world.

-- Posted by Cat Lover on Wed, Apr 16, 2008, at 8:03 AM

kaynmo, is that the best you can come back with? actually, it probably is.

JJ wins!

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Wed, Apr 16, 2008, at 12:04 AM

Wish the businesses in Marshall would take a hard look at the American flags they are flying. Some are in horrific condition. Seems disrespectful to fly torn and tattered flags. Come guys, take pride not only in flying our flag but doing so appropriately, too.

-- Posted by Muffin on Tue, Apr 15, 2008, at 6:04 PM

Dear stinkypinky, If you ever think that your sign on name is offensive then you can have one of my old ones. Let's see, I have Warlock and Butt Sneeze available.

-- Posted by John Q. on Tue, Apr 15, 2008, at 5:05 PM

Hey Smokin Cheetah,

Do you live in Marshall? If so, where can i get a good F-ing latte in town? or do you make your own?

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Tue, Apr 15, 2008, at 4:04 PM

I have no problem with peoples' choice of screen-names.

I DO have a problem with peoples' apparent proof-reading phobia.

You just spent twenty minutes crafting your argument about crosswalks, taxes, screen-names, etc. Take twenty seconds to make sure it is typo-free.

ps. I found, like, seven errors looking over this post. IRONY!

-- Posted by VOICE OF TREASON on Tue, Apr 15, 2008, at 2:35 PM

I agree with what the f..., who died and left Jesus4Life the authority on what screen names are offensive here. There are not guidelines on this blog as to what you can use as your screen name. So you can use whatever you like. I think if your mind is in the gutter you might believe some of the names are offensive, however, I'm more concerned with what people have to say...not what their name is. Say you had a co-worker with the name of Beelzebub. Would you tell him you think his name is offensive. Would you not be friends or communicate with him simply because you did not like his name? Would God approve if you did treat other people that way? It's no different here. I might find your screen name offensive, but I ignore it and continue to post to what you have to say, not what your name is. If you think so many names are offensive on this blog why don't you find a nice religious blog to post on and leave people and their screen names here alone. Otherwise, climb down from your pulpit, quit judging others on their names, and listen to what they have to say. What would Jesus do? He would accept people for who they are, and not judge them by their name.

-- Posted by Typesetter on Tue, Apr 15, 2008, at 11:33 AM

Ding-Ding-Ding Smokin Cheetah is the winner!

I have a wonderful career! Wouldn't change a thing about it. (except for Corporate America's priorities.)

I believe Wal-Mart, WestPort Center shops, our City & MODot need to combine their funds and take care of the persons trying to get across the intersections on Hwy 65. This is a tragedy waiting to happen. It surprises me that a pedestrian cross wasn't at the top of the list or was taken out of the plans.

-- Posted by nomad on Tue, Apr 15, 2008, at 11:29 AM

Happy Tuesday!!

-- Posted by nomad on Tue, Apr 15, 2008, at 11:14 AM

Jesus4life,

You have a dirty mind and and equally offensive screen name. Are you going to start this again?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Apr 15, 2008, at 10:14 AM

i would just like to say that i find the sign on name "stinkypinky" offensive. please remove it so i dont have to be subjected to innuendo.

-- Posted by jesus4life on Tue, Apr 15, 2008, at 12:01 AM

JJ you need to take a chill pill dude. Go smoke something!!!!

-- Posted by IPOH on Mon, Apr 14, 2008, at 9:17 PM

NOPE! I'm not stupid one bit! The stupidity lies on the one who does not follow the law! The one driving the vehicle that pretends or chooses to not SEE the pedestrian.

I have two children that drive. And- proud to say "You can bet your bottom dollar they will not only stop at a corner or crosswalk for the pedestrian because it is the law, but- because it is COMMON COURTESY."

And again, I'm not asking to get hit. I'm not breaking the law for crossing in a crosswalk.

-- Posted by nomad on Mon, Apr 14, 2008, at 3:13 PM

Congratulations are sent out to Mr. Kemm on his "Successful" Clean up Marshall event. I remember reading that OUR Mayor and City Council gave him "one more chance".

Who cares how many people turn out to help. Mr. Kemm is trying to give the city he grew up in, a courtesy. He should be backed by all of Marshall's officials and organizations.

-- Posted by nomad on Mon, Apr 14, 2008, at 3:05 PM

Mrs. Fairchild has already posted this... so-I'm not understanding why those who have read it are ??ing the subject.

MUST means you HAVE TO STOP, for a person in/at a CROSSWALK.

Crosswalks and stop lines: Page 29 of the MO Driver's Guide (found, a few scrolls away from the beginning of the chapter3)

When required to stop because of a sign or signal, you MUST stop before your vehicle reaches the stop line or if there is one, the CROSSWALK.

CROSSWALKS DEFINE THE AREA WHERE PEDESTRIANS ARE TO CROSS THE ROADWAY. YOU MUST YIELD TO PEDESTRIANS IN OR ABOUT TO ENTER A CROSSWALK. Not all crosswalks are marked. Be alert for pedestrians when crossing intersections that do not have defined crosswalks.

I am a person that will CROSS in a crosswalk if there are no cars directly in the crosswalk. If a vehicle is approaching the crosswalk and I am already there, I do not wait for the vehicle. HIT ME BABY! 'cause I'm in need of some $$$! It'll only hurt for a bit.. and if it's longer?? That's ok cause your insurance will pay! I get a vacation & you get a criminal record for breaking the law!!

-- Posted by nomad on Mon, Apr 14, 2008, at 1:19 PM

Happy Monday!!

-- Posted by nomad on Mon, Apr 14, 2008, at 12:23 PM

Oklahoma Reader, I have read and reread your poem several times and appreciate you sharing it with us. Is this an original poem or do you have a source for it? I have copied the poem and would like to use it at a later time. In addition to the poem I will offer the following quote.

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

-HERMAN GORING AT THE NUREMBERG TRIALS

I the history of war it seems this game plan keeps being played out.

John Q.

-- Posted by John Q. on Mon, Apr 14, 2008, at 11:33 AM

if you are unhappy...i suggest you find jesus, because he is a wonderful thing, his top is made out of rubber, his bottom is made out of springs...

-- Posted by jesus4life on Mon, Apr 14, 2008, at 8:56 AM

oh! the irony!

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Sun, Apr 13, 2008, at 8:55 PM

I am not going to get into a silly argument with someone who has nothing better to do, but sit around all day, and post comments on a website. Get a hobby.

-- Posted by tigger2118 on Sun, Apr 13, 2008, at 6:26 PM

It looks to me like this "JJ Gates" seriously needs to get a life.

-- Posted by tigger2118 on Sun, Apr 13, 2008, at 5:32 PM

WTF Crump? kaynmo posted "****" twice and its still there?!?!?! I feel discriminated for getting some of my postings deleted!

-- Posted by onpoint on Sat, Apr 12, 2008, at 11:34 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
I look away for 45 minutes and everything goes to ... er, heck. I'll try to be more vigilant!

We the people need to just have some common courtesy for one another. In the winter or summer you the driver have your heater to warm you and in the summer you have your air conditioner to cool you. the person walking has neither. I myself will wait to see if a car is going to stop before going into the cross walk. I have always thought and been told the person in the cross walk had the right of way. But what do I know.

-- Posted by 4kids6gkids on Sat, Apr 12, 2008, at 7:11 PM

This doesn't mention crosswalks specifically, but "so as not to endanger...the life and limb of another person" pretty well covers it for me. I'm sure if it was a police officer in the crosswalk you would stop for him/her!!

Chapter 304, Traffic Regulations, Section 304.012

Motorists to exercise highest degree of care--violation, penalty.

304.012. 1. Every person operating a motor vehicle on the roads and highways of this state shall drive the vehicle in a careful and prudent manner and at a rate of speed so as not to endanger the property of another or the life or limb of any person and shall exercise the highest degree of care.

2. Any person who violates the provisions of this section is guilty of a class B misdemeanor, unless an accident is involved then it shall be a class A misdemeanor.

-- Posted by Typesetter on Sat, Apr 12, 2008, at 4:24 PM

Speaking of the CrossWalks and College-

Drive by and Donate some change to those FREEZING rocking gals, raising $$$ for the LightHouse Shelter! I stopped around 10pm and they will come to your car!

Thank you, Kathy for the back up!

-- Posted by nomad on Sat, Apr 12, 2008, at 8:08 AM

You're very welcome, Smokin Cheetah.

I get very annoyed driving past the college seeing the students and faculty waiting to cross and not one car will... until me!

-- Posted by nomad on Sat, Apr 12, 2008, at 8:01 AM

The link provided by Cheetah and Nomad is correct - here's what it says about crosswalks:

"CROSSWALKS AND STOP LINES

When required to stop because of a sign or signal, you must stop before

your vehicle reaches the stop line or, if there is one, the crosswalk.

Crosswalks define the area where pedestrians are to cross the roadway.

You must yield to pedestrians in or about to enter a crosswalk. Not all

crosswalks are marked. Be alert for pedestrians when crossing

intersections that do not have defined crosswalks."

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sat, Apr 12, 2008, at 6:28 AM

Smokin Cheetah and Nomad......

Your link still does not prove your case! And nice try, because I was nearly hit a few years ago while walking in a crosswalk and I tried to press charges on that person. I was told that "drivers are not trained to look down at the road while driving." Which makes sense to me. When I drive, I don't look down at the road like a moron. I look ahead and through curves so that I don't crash. However, if you see someone in the middle of the street, it's only common sense to slow down and yield.

When one of you finds a statute that backs up your theory, let me know so I can appeal my case. The link you displayed is not statute.

-- Posted by onpoint on Sat, Apr 12, 2008, at 12:11 AM

"Why are we talking about this in the Whitehouse? History will not judge us kindly." WOW! I didn't think Ashcroft had a clue.......It's hard to believe that he was the most intellectual of the group or only one with any type of moral compass. Now we find out discussions of "enhanced interrogation techniques(Spelled: "Torture")were done by the National Security Advisor, VP, Secretary's of State, Defense and the Attorney General! They were talked about on a case by case basis, inside the White House!?! It is worse than I realized.

Not only has the war destoyed thousands of lives; it also has destroyed our reputation abroad, resulted in loss of civil liberties at home and left a crippling debt for our children. This link shows the cost in terms of dollars: http://www.nationalpriorities.org/costof...

The "other costs" are impossible to measure. I just wonder how much more money, how much longer, how many more lives and what price victory?

-- Posted by modemocrat on Fri, Apr 11, 2008, at 3:31 PM

I was reading the latest words from the Marshall Library Committee AND.....

Once again, the PARENT is pushing off their duty to monitor THEIR CHILD on a public service.

If a person doesn't have time to care for their child and help them learn right from wrong. I'm sure there is a family willing to adopt and that would love to take on this challange.

-- Posted by nomad on Fri, Apr 11, 2008, at 1:07 PM

Stopping for a Pedestrian at/in a crosswalk IS the law. Always has been. Someone should look into yanking your license if you didn't know that one.

Here's the link. You should definatly brush up!http://dor.mo.gov/mvdl/drivers/dlguide/chapter3.pdf

-- Posted by nomad on Fri, Apr 11, 2008, at 12:38 PM

me1234: That is precisely one of the biggest problems with the district. Information that is supposed to be confidential is continually "leaked" to the public, therefore the public always knows whats going to happen before the employees do. There is a huge issue of distrust within the district, and this "leaking" is a major contributor. As a board member or administrator, if you are privy to information that should be kept confidential, then do it. I can't tell you how many times I have known about situations days and weeks before it was made public. Not because I am in close contact with anyone, but because someone I know knows someone who knows someone etc. For some reason, many who are put into these types of positions just can't keep their mouths shut when they need to!

-- Posted by outsidelookin'in on Fri, Apr 11, 2008, at 8:10 AM

I just want to say that I'm a Marshall School Employee that keeps being told information and then I'm told not to leak it out the public. I'm torn on whether I agree with that request. Doesn't our public have a right to know? I'll just keep quiet, but good grief, our district needs to conduct itself in a manner in which there is no dirty laundry that staff is asked to keep to ourselves!

-- Posted by me1234 on Fri, Apr 11, 2008, at 7:59 AM

Okla Reader,

You are correct. This adminstration is downright treasonous. Let's not forget compromising CIA operatives

(expect to see a full pardon of Scooter Libby in the near future) because of a politcal hissy fit and that's just one more example of a long list of either incompetence or criminal complicity. Apparently our constitution, for which the president is sworn to defend is nothing more than a nuisance to be brushed aside.

We are told that we have to win this war while no one can define what winning is. Meanwhile private contracters are raking in obscene amounts of our tax dollars while our country is spiraling towards bankruptcy. Gas prices have almost doubled in just under three years.What does GW do? He smiles, shrugs and goes on yet another vacation which seems to be all he is good at as he taken more than any other president in history.....more than any other president in history.

I could go on and on but anyone who's ever seen anything other than FOX news already knows the score. I have written Mr. Skelton and encourage others to do so as well. These people need to be held accountable in a legal sense. If we do not demand this we will continue to get more of the same. People have to see past their parties. Don't turn a blind eye just because you may have voted for those in office because you are getting screwed as well.If GW has done anything he has made me pay more attention.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Apr 11, 2008, at 7:04 AM

Now that the Courthouse has been covered from every angle with something other than the usual pigeon droppings I thought I might move on to something else.

Back on March 23rd in John Q. Public's under read blog entitled Water Boarding I wrote the following simple poem as my comment.

Common Man thrust into battle by Masters

to maim and kill his brothers

is one of our disasters

they will never tell their mothers.

A bond of silence they can not share

because when they come home

they learn again to care.

That is one thing.

Pernicious plutocrats plotting in plush chairs

how to hurt distant captive humans best

so they tell what those captors want to tell the rest

is only extracting screaming lies.

Too bad they aren't satisfied pulling wings from flies.

That is another.

The jist of the poem of course was that those horrible things that military men sometimes do surrounded by the hell of dehumanizing combat is forgivable, and perhaps at times even necessary. Contra to that similar acts planned or practiced by high authorities in a personally tranquil environment is unforgivable.

Well, ABC News has outed those pernicious plutocrats, and located their plush chairs, you can't believe where. Yup in the Whitehouse! It seems in the summer of 2003 regular meetings were held there, attended by Dick Cheney, Condi Rice, Don Rumsfeld, Colin Powell, George Tenet, and Missouri's own John Ashcroft. The subject of the meetings were what method of torture, inclusive of waterboarding would be best to extract information from certain individually discussed captives. Now one would think that those high officials would be so overwhelmed with their myriad larger responsibilities, especially in war time, that they really wouldn't have time to discuss in detail the best way to torture a specific captive. They made the time to do it. Not once, but again, and again, and again. Ashcroft, no doubt influenced by his life long immersion in the Assemblies of God Church stated at one of the meetings "Why are we talking about this in the Whitehouse? History will not judge us kindly." You think?

This is just another of the many horrors, mistakes, and malfeasances that the Bush Administration has perpetrated. So many that it is to the point that we just shrug when the latest rears its ugly head. Death lurks in the halls of the Whitehouse winking and grinning.

Additional information on this story may be found at the Washington Post on line,the commentary in Dan Froomkin's column Whitehouse Watch, April 10th, 2008, or just go to Buzzflash.com, it is their headline of the day. Click on the headline and it will take you to Froomkin's piece.

Too bad they weren't satisfied pulling wings from flies.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Apr 11, 2008, at 1:20 AM

Alphadog...

I'm quite impressed that you would share scripts from "ON SHEEP, WOLVES, AND SHEEPDOGS". However, you should give credit where credit is due. ON SHEEP, WOLVES, AND SHEEPDOGS is from the book, On Combat, by Lt. Col. (retired) Dave Grossman, US Army Ranger, Former West Point Psychology Professor. I'm not sure who Charles Grennel is, but I commend him on quoting Lt. Col. Grossman from his magnificent book.

-- Posted by onpoint on Thu, Apr 10, 2008, at 10:58 PM

Stopping for pedestrians at a crosswalk is not "the law" unless there is a Pedestrian Crossing sign displayed. Therefore, a pedestrian should not rely on motorists to stop for them just because there is a crosswalk painted on the street. Motorists are not trained to look down at the roadway when driving, so they would not be in violation of law unless of course there is a sign displayed.

-- Posted by onpoint on Thu, Apr 10, 2008, at 10:39 PM

Maybe if you provided accurate "sources" someone might actually believe what you come up with. The source you provided is pretty weak on "identifying with any certainty who actually lit the fire".

-- Posted by prd123 on Thu, Apr 10, 2008, at 2:30 PM

According to U.S. Census Bureau estimates, the population of Saline County in 2006 was 22,896. Of that number, about 17,600 are over the age of 18, and thus able to vote. The total number of voters on the courthouse renovation question was 2,535 - of that total, 1,608 voted "yes" and 927 voted "no." That puts the turnout at a dismal 15%.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Thu, Apr 10, 2008, at 11:44 AM

I haven't been to Sweet Springs lately. is it really like the wild wild west?

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Thu, Apr 10, 2008, at 8:45 AM

There was a lot of comment, both positive and negative, on the Speak Out blog regarding Tuesday's election. In spite of that, turnout for the election was very low. Leaving out the inconvenience of the morning's rain, why do you think the turnout was so low? It can't be blamed on the hours the polls are open - very early in the morning until 7 p.m. That should cover most, if not all, voters. What keeps people at home, when it takes mere minutes to cast a ballot?

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Apr 9, 2008, at 6:21 PM

To Alphadog...as the proud son of a sheepdog, a sheepdog who made the ultimate sacrifice for this great country, I thank you for your great words!

-- Posted by OldOwl on Wed, Apr 9, 2008, at 4:55 PM

THANK YOU!! I can't begin to count the number of times that I have had to stand for minutes at a time and wait to cross at the crosswalks in front of Missouri Valley College. Sometimes I start to count the cars. I think the record for me happened a few weeks ago: it was 8 cars and a Municipal Utilities truck... And don't you love how the drivers look RIGHT AT YOU and smirk as they drive through at higher-than-legal rates of speed? I know I do.

-- Posted by imaloony on Wed, Apr 9, 2008, at 11:34 AM

This letter was written by Charles Grennel and his comrades who are veterans of the global war on terror. Grennel is an Army Reservist who spent two years in Iraq and was a principal in putting together the first Iraq elections, January of 2005. It was written to Jill Edwards, a student at the University of Washington who did not want to honor Medal of Honor recipient USMC Colonel Greg "Pappy" Boyington a University of Washington alumni's, prior to a planned ceremony early February 2008. (For those of you who are too young to remember, the TV show Baa Baa Black Sheep was based on the heroics of this WWII fighter pilot) Ms. Edwards and other students (and faculty) do not think those who serve in the U.S. armed services are good role models.

_________

To: Edwards, Jill (student, UW)

Subject: Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs

Miss Edwards, I read of your student activity regarding the proposed memorial to Col. Greg "Pappy" Boyington, USMC and a Medal of Honor winner. I suspect you will receive a bellyful of angry e-mails from conservative folks like me.

You may be too young to appreciate fully the sacrifices of generations of servicemen and servicewomen on whose shoulders you and your fellow students stand. I forgive you for the untutored ways of youth and your naiveté. It may be that you are, simply, a sheep. There's no dishonor in being a sheep as long as you know and accept what you are.

William J. Bennett, in a lecture to the United States Naval Academy November 24, 1997 said: Most of the people in our society are sheep. They are kind, gentle, productive creatures who can only hurt one another by accident. We may well be in the most violent times in history, but violence is still remarkably rare. This is because most citizens are kind, decent people who are not capable of hurting each other, except by accident or under extreme provocation. They are sheep.

Then there are the wolves and the wolves feed on the sheep without mercy. Do you believe there are wolves out there who will feed on the flock without mercy? You better believe it. There are evil men in this world and they are capable of evil deeds. The moment you forget that or pretend it is not so, you become a sheep. There is no safety in denial.

Then there are sheepdogs, and I'm a sheepdog. I live to protect the flock and confront the wolf. If you have no capacity for violence then you are a healthy productive citizen, a sheep. If you have a capacity for violence and no empathy for your fellow citizens, then you have defined an aggressive sociopath, a wolf. But what if you have a capacity for violence, and a deep love for your fellow citizens? What do you have then? A sheepdog, a warrior, someone who is walking the uncharted path. Someone who can walk into the heart of darkness, into the universal human phobia, and walk out unscathed.

We know that the sheep live in denial; that is what makes them sheep. They do not want to believe that there is evil in the world. They can accept the fact that fires can happen, which is why they want fire extinguishers, fire sprinklers, fire alarms and fire exits throughout their kids schools. But many of them are outraged at the idea of putting an armed police officer in their kid's school. Our children are thousands of times more likely to be killed or seriously injured by school violence than fire, but the sheep's only response to the possibility of violence is denial. The idea of someone coming to kill or harm their child is just too hard, and so they chose the path of denial.

The sheep generally do not like the sheepdog. He looks a lot like the wolf. He has fangs and the capacity for violence. The difference, though, is that the sheepdog must not, cannot and will not ever harm the sheep. Any sheep dog who intentionally harms the lowliest little lamb will be punished and removed. The world cannot work any other way, at least not in a representative democracy or a republic such as ours. Still, the sheepdog disturbs the sheep. He is a constant reminder that there are wolves in the land. They would prefer that he didn't tell them where to go, or give them traffic tickets, or stand at the ready in our airports, in camouflage fatigues, holding an M-16. The sheep would much rather have the sheepdog cash in his fangs, spray paint himself white, and go, Baa. Until the wolf shows up; then the entire flock tries desperately to hide behind one lonely sheepdog.

The students, the victims, at Columbine High School were big, tough high school students, and under ordinary circumstances they would not have had the time of day for a police officer. They were not bad kids; they just had nothing to say to a cop. When the school was under attack, however, and SWAT teams were clearing the rooms and hallways, the officers had to physically peel those clinging, sobbing kids off of them.

This is how the little lambs feel about their sheepdog when the wolf is at the door. Look at what happened after September 11, 2001, when the wolf pounded hard on the door. Remember how America, more than ever before, felt differently about their law enforcement officers and military personnel?

Understand that there is nothing morally superior about being a sheepdog; it is just what you choose to be. Also understand that a sheepdog is a funny critter: He is always sniffing around out on the perimeter, checking the breeze, barking at things that go bump in the night, and yearning for a righteous battle. That is, the young sheepdogs yearn for a righteous battle. The old sheepdogs are a little older and wiser, but they move to the sound of the guns when needed, right along with the young ones.

Here is how the sheep and the sheepdog think differently. The sheep pretend the wolf will never come, but the sheepdog lives for that day. After the attacks on September 11, 2001, most of the sheep, that is, most citizens in America said, Thank God I wasn't on one of those planes. The sheepdogs, the warriors, said, Dear God, I wish I could have been on one of those planes.

Maybe I could have made a difference. You want to be able to make a difference. There is nothing morally superior about the sheepdog, the warrior, but he does have one real advantage. Only one. And that is that he is able to survive and thrive in an environment that destroys 98 percent of the population.

There was research conducted a few years ago with individuals convicted of violent c rimes. These cons were in prison for serious, predatory crimes of violence: assaults, murders and killing law enforcement officers. The vast majority said that they specifically targeted victims by body language: slumped walk, passive behavior and lack of awareness. They chose their victims like big cats do in Africa, when they select one out of the herd that is least able to protect itself. Some people may be destined to be sheep and others might be genetically primed to be wolves or sheepdogs. But I believe that most people can choose which one they want to be, and I'm proud to say that more and more Americans are choosing to become sheepdogs.

Seven months after the attack on September 11, 2001, Todd Beamer was honored in his hometown of Cranbury, New Jersey. Todd, as you recall, was the man on Flight 93 over Pennsylvania who called on his cell phone to alert an operator from United Airlines about the hijacking. When they learned of the other three passenger planes that had been used as weapons, Todd and the other passengers confronted the terrorist hijackers. In one hour, a transformation occurred among the passengers, athletes, business people and parents from sheep to sheepdogs and together they fought the wolves, ultimately saving an unknown number of lives on the ground.

"There is no safety for honest men except by believing all possible evil of evil men." Edmund Burke

"Only the dead have seen the end of war." Plato

Here is the point I like to emphasize, especially to the thousands of police officers and soldiers I speak to each year. In nature the sheep, real sheep, are born as sheep. Sheepdogs are born that way, and so are wolves. They didn't have a choice.

But you are not a critter. As a human being, you can be whatever you want to be. It is a conscious, moral decision If you want to be a sheep, then you can be a sheep and that is okay, but you must understand the price you pay. When the wolf comes, you and your loved ones are going to die if there is not a sheepdog there to protect you. If you want to be a wolf, you can be one, but the sheepdogs are going to hunt you down and you will never have rest, safety, trust or love. But if you want to be a sheepdog and walk the warrior's path, then you must make a conscious and moral decision every day to dedicate, equip and prepare yourself to thrive in that toxic, corrosive moment when the wolf comes knocking at the door.

This business of being a sheep or a sheep dog is not a yes-no dichotomy. It is not an all-or-nothing, either-or choice. It is a matter of degrees, a continuum. On one end is an abject, head-in-the-sand-sheep and on the other end is the ultimate warrior. Few people exist completely on one end or the other. Most of us live somewhere in between.

Since 9-11 almost everyone in America took a step up that continuum, away from denial. The sheep took a few steps toward accepting and appreciating their warriors and the warriors started taking their job more seriously. It's OK to be a sheep, but do not kick the sheep dog. Indeed, the sheep dog may just run a little harder, strive to protect a little better and be fully prepared to pay an ultimate price in battle and spirit with the sheep moving from baa to thanks.

We do not call for gifts or freedoms beyond our lot. We just need a small pat on the head, a smile and a thank you to fill the emotional tank which is drained protecting the sheep. And when our number is called by The Almighty, and day retreats into night, a small prayer before the heavens just may be in order to say thanks for letting you continue to be a sheep. And be grateful for the thousands, millions of American sheepdogs who permit you the freedom to express even bad ideas.

May God richly bless all the Sheepdogs of America!

-- Posted by alphadog on Wed, Apr 9, 2008, at 9:16 AM

Just an FYI. When you come to a crosswalk, be it on the square or in front of a school, or wherever, you, as a motorist MUST STOP FOR A PEDESTRIAN IN A CROSSWALK!! I can't tell you how many times I have been nearly mowed down while crossing the street in a crosswalk. People just act like they don't see you and keep going. As a pedestrian the closer you get to the middle of the crosswalk the further over a car will drive until it is driving into the parking spaces, but heaven forbid they should stop to let you safely finish crossing the street. What I also hate is when one car stops for you and then the car behind them blows out around them to pass just as you are getting to the other side of the crosswalk. They are now barreling toward you at a high rate of speed and if you don't run to get out of the way they will run right over you! Yesterday someone backed out of a parking space right next to the crosswalk without looking behind him. If I hadn't stepped back fast he would have taken me down. When he finally came to a stop to put his car in Drive I was just behind his driver's side door. I could have reached out and touched him! That's how close he came to hitting me. Please people, obey the law and stop for people when they are in a crosswalk, before someone gets ran over for simply trying to get from point A to point B by legally crossing the street where it is supposed to be safe to do so.

-- Posted by Typesetter on Tue, Apr 8, 2008, at 2:48 PM

It's about time..........

-- Posted by outsidelookin'in on Tue, Apr 8, 2008, at 2:34 PM

Just heard that Marshall's Deputy Superintendent resigned. Any comments!

-- Posted by Cat Lover on Tue, Apr 8, 2008, at 2:12 PM

Hey everyone.......be sure to get out there and vote! I went over my lunch period and I was number 138 in my ward. There needs to be more people out voicing there opinions than that! The only way to make a change is to vote for it!!!!!

-- Posted by outsidelookin'in on Tue, Apr 8, 2008, at 1:11 PM

SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL 4H. The 4H Jr Leaders are having a taco supper at the Fairgrounds Multipurpose Building from 4:30-7:30 this evening. Freewill donation will be accepted. Carry-outs will be available. THE PROCEEDS ARE GOING TO REBURBISH THE INTERIOR OF THE COOKSHACK. THANKS TO ALL WHO HELP OUT.

-- Posted by serviceman on Tue, Apr 8, 2008, at 6:35 AM

I would like to thank the members of the Court House Preservation Committee for the time they have put into this project. I can tell (even as I drive by without paying any attention) that our Court House needs some serious attention. I know most of the people that were included in this process and I personally trust their decisions. It does hurt to fork over more money at a time when money is tight as you might gather from my username but frankly the amount per individual is so minor that I couldn't imagine missing it. I would also like to thank the members of the media that were present to report the information garnered from these meetings. Without you we would all be unaware and uninformed of the precedings. I love the Saline County Court House! It is a beautiful historic monument that is and should be the pride of our town and our county.

-- Posted by broke-n-busted on Mon, Apr 7, 2008, at 5:50 PM

No point?? I must disagree. The issue of representation is exactly the point. The meetings are open to the public; what I still don't understand and you have not and cannot explain is why all committee members are from Marshall. It is the commissioners duty 'appoint' the members and make sure of proper representation.They have "ignored" imput through their own actions and appointments . It appears that at least four of the members live in Marshall (three live on the same street). I fail to see how this is giving equal voice to all the citizens of Saline County. That chance will come tomorrow and I urge everyone to vote based on facts, history and personal beliefs.

-- Posted by modemocrat on Mon, Apr 7, 2008, at 4:48 PM

Shocked - the courthouse preservation meetings are indeed open to the public, and dates and times have been published many times in the paper. I've attended most of the meetings, though not all, and no one but the commissioners and the committe members and media representatives have attended been present.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Mon, Apr 7, 2008, at 4:38 PM

There is no point to modemocrat, he/she feels that they have had no representation because the commissioners didn't join every group in Saline County and the committee members don't live in his/her community. Based on this there is some kind of paranoia that they don't hold the views of the entire county as equal.

I have seen several announcements of the meetings of the courthouse committee. I have not attended but as far as I can tell they have all been open meetings. If anyone failed to attend the meetings, or contact one of the committee members to express their views, then who's fault is that. Modemocrat has not given a single example of how the commissioners or committee members have ignored or refused any outside impute or opinions in this issue.

Even if you choose to think your opinion has been ignored, we the citizens ultimately have the finial say tomorrow at the polls.

-- Posted by Shockedannamazed on Mon, Apr 7, 2008, at 4:20 PM

I hadn't thought about this much until just last week when I noticed a few references to state Sen. Bill Stouffer as being "from Marshall." He's always been from Napton, as far as I knew. But I asked a colleague who lives hear Bill, and she said it might be that he has a Marshall postal address -- Napton no longer has a post office -- so even though he might be living in the Napton suburbs, he *looks* like he's from Marshall if all you have is the USPS version of things.

I wonder if that's what's going on with the Courthouse Preservation Committee? I don't know where most of the folks on the committee live, but perhaps some of them have Marshall addresses but don't live in the Marshall metropolitan area.

Just a guess.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Mon, Apr 7, 2008, at 4:10 PM

The courthouse renovation committee members are: Paul Porter, Bryan Berlin, Lucy Fletcher, Lee Hamilton and Brad Bartlett. All of them are listed in the Marshall section of the phone book. We've published this information several times, each time saying they were all from Marshall, and so far, none of them has contacted the paper to say that isn't so.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Mon, Apr 7, 2008, at 3:53 PM

"I think someone has things wrong, almost half of the people on the courthouse committee are not Marshall…" was posted by 'Shockedannamazed'. I was curious about that statement because I read in this newspaper (11/23/07) that all the members were from Marshall. I was interested which statement is true.

-- Posted by modemocrat on Mon, Apr 7, 2008, at 3:45 PM

In your earlier post, you asked for the names of your representatives - do you mean the names of the commissioners, or the names of the members of the courthouse preservation committee, or both? I noted also that there seems to be some confusion on who lives where - can you clarify that for me? I have the names, if you want them, and their locations. I have the impression that you believe the newspaper has published incorrect information and I'd like to help you out, if I can. To date, after the publication of several stories on the courthouse renovation, no one has said that our information on committee members is uncorrect until now.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Mon, Apr 7, 2008, at 3:27 PM

With all due respect; why are tax dollars being given to any? If an individual wants to join, I have no problem with that. It is a question of how the money is spent and if all organizations, groups, communities are treated equally. This is obviously not the case.

-- Posted by modemocrat on Mon, Apr 7, 2008, at 3:19 PM

With all due respect, how could the three commissioners belong to every chamber in the county? Where would they find the time to attend meetings?

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Mon, Apr 7, 2008, at 3:05 PM

Zip codes are not the issue; it is taxes and fiscal responsibility. I have no problem with any individual belonging or joining a Chamber of Commerce. The fact is the County Commission of Saline County purchased a membership in the Marshall C of C. If they are going to belong to one, they need to belong to all. I understand the courthouse belongs to the entire county; I just think there should be some representation from all parts of the county. I would like to know the names of my representative so I can discuss this matter with them. I have friends & family in Sweet Springs & Arrow Rock; whom should they contact? Is there someplace (a web site perhaps?...oh I forgot the county doesn't have one) with a list of the names that will assist in this research. Since the newspaper account is 'inaccurate' where can I find the correct information?

-- Posted by modemocrat on Mon, Apr 7, 2008, at 1:53 PM

See Marshall's Racing History

www.sportsmansspeedwaymarshall.com

-- Posted by Sportsmans Speedway Marshall on Mon, Apr 7, 2008, at 1:33 PM

Modemocrat, interesting but still uninformed. Even with the fact the Demo News says "all of Marshall" doesn't mean it is so, some don't live in Marshall. Second, you complain that the county is not being represented, and then you complain that the members don't have the right zip code. Is the real point the fact they are not from your zip code?

Your idea of taxation without representation is flawed. If having representation is belonging to the Slater Chamber, or any other Chamber for that fact, then we are all getting the short end of the stick. I am sure there are, but I don't know any state or federal politicians that are members of any local chamber. Basing taxation without representation on what groups or organizations politicians are a members of makes no since.

It is the actions of politics that demonstrates representation, not what groups a certain individual politicians are members of during their free time. As far as the courthouse, it belongs to all Saline County citizens. Repairing it, replacing it, or letting it fall in, represents all of the county's populace, no matter what your zip code is.

-- Posted by Shockedannamazed on Mon, Apr 7, 2008, at 1:20 PM

Upkeep is a good issue. Alot of people took considerable personel time and trouble to refurbish and re-attach the illuminated flag on the north side of the court house. Now it appears as if it needs a few new bulbs but nothing has been done. I guess it will be left there to rot like before?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Apr 7, 2008, at 12:38 PM

In regards to some recent comments: A)"Committee members Lucy Fletcher, Paul Porter, Bryan Berlin, Brad Bartlett and Lee Hamilton, all of Marshall, were selected by the Saline County Commission on the basis of their interest and/or experience in preservation."(Marshall Democrat News 11/23/07) Of course they are all members of the county, but there are other zip codes in the county than 65340.

B) No I am not a former (or current) county official; but it appears the taxpayer is going to have to 'pick up the pieces' or pay the price for this problem.

C) The Chamber issue is an example of the priorities of the county commission. Your tax dollars are being spent to join the Marshall Chamber of Commerce. What about Sweet Springs, Friends of Arrow Rock, Slater? All of these groups are in Saline County but are not worthy of the commission having a membership?

All of these points can be summed up as 'taxation without representation.' All I ask is that an effort be made to include all residents in planning and working for Saline County's future. This is not currently being done.

-- Posted by modemocrat on Mon, Apr 7, 2008, at 12:14 PM

Hey, modemocrat! You sound as if you maybe a former county commissioner. Sometimes elected officials get to pick up the pieces of what others neglected to do when they had the chance!

-- Posted by yomomma on Mon, Apr 7, 2008, at 11:44 AM

I think someone has things wrong, almost half of the people on the courthouse committee are not Marshall residents but county residents. If you spent sometime educating yourself rather than trying to muddy up the issues you would know this.

The true issue is how are we going to repair the courthouse. There are only a few choices, do nothing and let it decay more so we have to spend more money later, spend $10 million plus to build a new one that will need repairs in the future too, or fix the one we have. I am not sure how the issue of what chamber the Commissioners belongs to has anything to do the repair of the courthouse.

No one likes more taxes. The cheapest thing to do is fix the courthouse we have, like it or not.

-- Posted by Shockedannamazed on Mon, Apr 7, 2008, at 11:37 AM

Good point, modemocrat. It would be a good move to make sure that there are funds for upkeep and maintenance after the renovation is finished so we don't face this again in 20 years. I guess my point is that we can quibble about how we got to this point but the reality is that the structure needs to be renovated.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Mon, Apr 7, 2008, at 11:09 AM

It seems another thing missed when discussing a tax increase for the courthouse is how/why it has come to this point. Have our county officials been good stewards of the taxpayers' money? What alternate plans/contingencies have been considered for addressing this issue? This is not a problem that developed overnight. Why is there not a 'courthouse maintenance, preservation, capital improvement or upkeep fund' developed in which funds would be set aside for projects of this type. All of the boards/organizations that I have served on, maintenance/upkeep is a line item in every budget and is examined at least yearly..

-- Posted by modemocrat on Mon, Apr 7, 2008, at 10:18 AM

i think the thing most people are missing here is that jesus hates tax collectors. if you try to collect taxes for the courthouse, you are no better than them.

-- Posted by jesus4life on Mon, Apr 7, 2008, at 9:54 AM

The thing that is being missed about the Courthouse tax issue is simple: do you want to fix it now or later? Later will cost more money. Or perhaps you'd like to see an empty lot as part of our square -- the guys who tore down the old lumberyard did a good job of leveling it. We could hire them!

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Mon, Apr 7, 2008, at 7:20 AM

Please vote for the sales tax to refurbish the County Courthouse. Those of you who see it each and every day can not help but take it for granted. I did when I lived there. Familiarity breeds contempt.

It is a classic monument to what's good about rural America. Neglecting it will only promote the image that is pervading county seats all over this country, shabby little town squares with boarded windows, and courthouses falling down. What will people think when they come to your town square and see that? Most of you have a sense of pride about your town, just as you do your home ,or your car. It is in your best interest to continue to extend that sense of pride beyond what you personally own. If nothing else that grand old building draws the eye away from the shuttered shops, and the mind away from thoughts of Walmart that caused it. If you can, after you vote to preserve your heritage take the time to walk around your square. Enjoy remembering what it once was. Dream of what it might be.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Apr 6, 2008, at 9:44 PM

It's springtime again...how can I tell? Flowers? Birds? Nope.

Legal panhandling time at the 4-way stop at Odell and Yerby streets, that's how.

I'm all for charity and organizations that do good things for people, don't get me wrong. But, to be practically held hostage on our city streets so they can collect money is just not right.

I have seen several problems arise from this.

One, traffic backs up tremendously during busy times causing frustration and impatience.

Two, I have personally witnessed several near misses or hits because people are either talking, getting out money or trying to hurry through the intersection to avoid them.

Three, the "takers" seem to think that they are at a local coffee shop and it is time to chat up anyone who happens to drive by. Please, do your chatting on your own time, not mine. It's a road, not an ice cream social.

Four, people asking for money at one of Marshall's busiest intersections is just plain wrong. Do good things, but get your money to do these things in another way. Don't use a city street to stand there and hold out a can. This is usually called panhandling and I thought it was illegal.

-- Posted by Cheese on Sun, Apr 6, 2008, at 9:38 PM

We are going to be voting on another new tax next Tuesday (this time for courthouse renovations). The county commission discussed and appointed a committee to offer solutions. I would like to commend the committee for their time and hard work on this project. I still question why no representatives have been included that live outside the Marshall city limits. Two reasons have been suggested: 1) there was a time crunch and the committee was needed quickly for a grant application; 2) That citizens have not come forward to express an interest in helping.

I accept the premise of the grant timeline; but not to have appointed anyone else in the two plus years (since the committee was first formed seems) like adequate time to find others willing to serve. The committee was "appointed", a big difference from a "volunteer" situation. Showing an 'interest' in a project in Saline County has little correlation in being chosen to serve. There were over a dozen citizens that volunteered their time to work on getting County wide 911 organized and passed. Out of this group only ONE was appointed to the initial committee.

The question has also been raised as to why the Saline County Commission is a member of the Marshall Chamber of Commerce but no other 'Chamber' or similar group in the other communities. The answer was that 'they had not been invited' to join. Does this mean that to be 'appointed' by the commission, a person needs to 'volunteer' but for the commission to belong to a 'volunteer' organization the commission needs to be 'invited'? I believe the above demonstrates the detachment our current county commissioners have with the citizens they are suppose to represent. While the citizens have the final vote on the courthouse tax increase, it is worth noting the methods used for various projects over the past several years. A tax rate approaching 8% is very high and with a recession looming, gas prices headed towards $4.00/gallon, food prices rising, housing downturn we must ask is this the best time and way to renovate our courthouse?

-- Posted by modemocrat on Sun, Apr 6, 2008, at 3:52 PM

After reading the recent article about the debate for school board and the poor attendance, I wondered, where were all those so quick to be critical of the current school board? As usual for Marshall sitiing at home being armchair quarterbacks. Lots of hot air and nothing else.

-- Posted by ghostwriter1978 on Sun, Apr 6, 2008, at 1:58 PM

I am so bummed out right now. I just got back from town (I live out in the country) after running some errands. It's Saturday night and the town is dead. Of course, I know this has to do with high gas prices. I about choked when I saw gas for $3.10 at Break Time. This is just making me sick. Each week that I gas up and see the price rising, I wonder when it will end. Food prices are higher, everything is more expensive, and my family is barely making ends meet. I HAVE to gas up each week to get to work and town or there wouldn't be any money coming in to pay the bills. I read in paper the other day that for the third month in a row America has lost more jobs than gained. I no longer hear about the financial problems we are facing as a nation, but now I can clearly feel and see them. In my lifetime, I personally have never seen such a national crisis. I guess this is just me venting, but also hoping that things will change for the better soon.

-- Posted by Marshall Citizen on Sat, Apr 5, 2008, at 9:10 PM

Alphadog, keep up the good work. The sacrifices of our troops and their families are greatly appreciated. Some of our complaints must seem pretty trite compared to what you're going through. Hang in there!

-- Posted by oneofmany on Sat, Apr 5, 2008, at 4:25 PM

Just a heads up to my fellow commenters at this spot. Kathy Fairchild does have some trenchant comments about taxes at her OBTW spot. Click over and give it a read.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sat, Apr 5, 2008, at 1:53 AM

Yeah...

A bright idea to put a tax issue on a ballot during a recession...Go figure.

Makes you stop and think doesn't it?

You wonder what world some of these people who makes these decisions are living in...

Take a look around for crissakes..count the cars going up and down Odell or College streets after dark during the week...You can count on them on one hand..

There's no money folks..wake up!

-- Posted by Hombre on Sat, Apr 5, 2008, at 12:41 AM

Taxes. Lots of us have taxes on our minds these days. State and federal taxes are due soon. We get to vote on the courthouse renovation tax Tuesday.

As you might expect, Kathy Fairchild has something to say on the issue in her OBTW column today.

"Like it or not, we all have to kick in some of the money for good roads, safe bridges, county and city facilities, wages and benefits for the people who manage all those resources -- we even have to toss something into the hat to support the process of voting on all of it.

Where else would the money come from, if not from us?"

If you don't get the paper, visit www.marshallnews.com/story/1322960.html to read more.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Fri, Apr 4, 2008, at 7:52 PM

I agree about them standing in the street id like to know where the money goes isure cant get any help here and i know of elderly that cant either .

-- Posted by purpleroses on Fri, Apr 4, 2008, at 5:05 PM

I don't understand why MODOT via our Missouri senators and representatives is willing to place markers on the highway with names of those killed by drunk drivers even if the family or loved ones are paying for them. If you are killed on Missouri highways by someone on drugs that person's life has no value or worthy of a sign?

I would think drivers couldn't help but want to read the signs along the highway which distracts from their attention to safe driving. May be local governmental bodies should look into offering the same thing for those who die at the hands of serial killers, rapeists etc. Don't they deserve the same recognition as they, too, died at the hands of someone else?

-- Posted by Muffin on Fri, Apr 4, 2008, at 4:37 PM

It's springtime again and another payday is here...how can I tell?

Legal panhandling time at the 4-way stop at Odell and Yerby streets, that's how.

I'm all for charity and these organizations that do good things for people, don't get me wrong. But, to be practically held hostage on our city streets so they can collect money is just not right.

I have seen several problems arise from this.

One, traffic backs up tremendously during busy times causing frustration and impatience.

Two, I have personally witnessed several near misses or hits because people are either talking, getting out money or trying to hurry through the intersection to avoid them.

Three, the "takers" seem to think that they are at a local coffee shop and it is time to chat up anyone who happens to drive by. Please, do your chatting on your own time, not mine. It's a road, not a social.

Four, people asking for money at one of Marshall's busiest intersections is just plain wrong. Do good things, but get your money to do these things in another way. Don't use a city street to stand there and beg. This is usually called panhandling and I thought it was illegal.

-- Posted by Cheese on Fri, Apr 4, 2008, at 4:12 PM

I just want to say thank you to everyone who participates in these blogs. I've been in the IZ for about 2 months now and occasionally I get to check on whats going on back home in Marshall through the Democrat News. You might not think it but after reading the local news and then catching up on the blog which I really enjoy reading rather than blogging, it feals like I'm back home for a second and that really brings up my spirt and morale. Please keep the news coming and the exchange of ideas from the blog. I would also like to give a special thank you to all individuals that support our troops over here no matter how you express it, Thank You and god bless you.

-- Posted by alphadog on Fri, Apr 4, 2008, at 11:17 AM

there has not been much talk around about the county commissioners sales tax issue. after reading and studing this issue, it appears to me that the only time they want to mingle with saline county citizens is when they want something. there is no plan spelled out about all of this money, no timetables or anything, i guess that they think we taxpayers are dumb enough just to give them a blank check, NO WAY

WE HAVE GOT ENOUGH TAXES, how do me make it?? gas is so high and that has effected everything that we buy, but the commissioners want more, enough is enough. NO NEW TAXES.. I am sure that the court house might need some repairs, but the commissioners need to have made plans in their county budget, they have had time to make plans. well folks I have had enough of taxes, and we sure don't need any new taxes. so the bottom line is NO TO ANY TAXES.....

-- Posted by saline on Thu, Apr 3, 2008, at 4:46 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Whether the courthouse renovation project justifies a 1/4-cent sales tax is a question open to debate, but I don't think it would be accurate to say the commission has no plan or timetables. The commission had a feasibility study done. The result is a two-inch thick document that can't for practical purposes be published in its entirety, but we've tried to do our best to deliver the main points of the plan and county officials' reasons for it.

http://www.marshallnews.com/story/131819...

http://www.marshallnews.com/story/130649...

http://www.marshallnews.com/story/130390...

http://www.marshallnews.com/story/129999...

http://www.marshallnews.com/story/129740...

http://www.marshallnews.com/story/129390...

http://www.marshallnews.com/story/129280...

http://www.marshallnews.com/story/129189...

There is a plan. You may choose to support it or reject it, but it exists.

Saline mo (and anyone else interested) - Here are some stories on MME and the tax abatement issue I pulled from our archives. There are more stories than this, but these, I think, best address the issue you raised.

Getting started:

http://www.marshallnews.com/story/101495...

Equity drive:

http://www.marshallnews.com/story/101476...

Tax issue:

http://www.marshallnews.com/story/101432...

Clarifying the tax issue:

http://www.marshallnews.com/story/103999...

Tax abatement vote:

http://www.marshallnews.com/story/104006...

Bonds are signed:

http://www.marshallnews.com/story/107349...

Grand opening:

http://www.marshallnews.com/story/109819...

MME expansion:

http://www.marshallnews.com/story/114383...

More info on Chapter 100 Bonds:

http://ded.mo.gov/

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Thu, Apr 3, 2008, at 1:33 PM

The School Board Candidate Forum held on March 31, 2008 can be viewed at: www.owltv.org

Thanks Mr. Fawkes for making that available to the public.

-- Posted by niuges on Thu, Apr 3, 2008, at 11:33 AM

Very good points, Saline MO. This should be thought of when voting on this tax.

-- Posted by nomad on Thu, Apr 3, 2008, at 11:28 AM

Missing home,

Excellent points. I had a chance to talk for a few minutes with Pete Hegseth, one of the Vets for Freedom guys who stopped in Marshall last week. He and his colleagues are battle-tested soldiers, not wimps of any sort. And one of the things he said to me is how much he had come to admire the Iraqi people for their generosity and kindness and loyalty. He said he had great respect for the way they practice their religion and said there is much we could learn from their society.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Thu, Apr 3, 2008, at 11:21 AM

Dear Mr. Crump.

Not all liberals are "wimpy". I believe that phrase constitutes name calling just as if you were calling someone "ignorant". Who moderates and or removes your posts? For the record, I am just drawing a parallel to other posts deleted for vitually the same offense. Is there a distintion because it is directed at a group of people as opposed to a specific individual?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Apr 3, 2008, at 11:16 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Who do? You do. Point taken. I've removed the comment and will revise and repost.

Please refresh my memory........didn't the original 'jail tax' have a sunset provision? If my info is correct a new tax passed that eliminated that provision. I believe in alternate fuels but question eliminating all property taxes for the ethonal plant; is there a sunset provision with that? I heard the plant doubled in size in its first year; is the expansion taxed or does the provision apply to only the initial factoryand all future expansion? What other businesses, companies enjoy such perks?

The presiding commissioner in 2006 stated "Numerous grants are in the works, including one to rehabilitate the Saline County Courthouse." It was also noted that economic development would be taking place at 'Marshall Junction.' I know there have been some grants forthcoming but we still need over $3,000,000.00 to complete the project!? I don't know if any of these items are interconnected but (to paraphrase Barry

Goldwater) "..... a million dollars here...a million dollars there, and before long it starts to add up to real money....."

-- Posted by saline mo on Thu, Apr 3, 2008, at 11:04 AM
Response by Kathy Fairchild/Staff writer:
I can answer some of your questions, though not all. Here's our recent story on the Marshall Junction situation and why there has been no progress on it:

http://www.marshallnews.com/story/130390...

As to the courthouse - grants pursued are not always grants received, unfortunately. However, the county did receive a $90K grant very recently to help with restoring the courthouse roof - that amount will pay for a little less than half of the $200K needed.

We also did a story on the retirement of the bonds to pay for the construction of the county jail just a month or two ago. The tax in effect now is to help maintain the building into the future.

I'll look into the ethanol plant situation and get back to you. I'm not as familiar with that issue as I could be.

You can't ignore JJ. he's an artist and a prophet. Those ignoring his art and prophecies are only ignoring themselves.

-- Posted by Eff Ess on Thu, Apr 3, 2008, at 10:19 AM

bd42, what an ironic post.

let's just ignore JJ and not post about him.

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Thu, Apr 3, 2008, at 10:12 AM

missing home -- I enjoyed your post. Thank you for putting your thoughts out there. It was a brave thing to do. You are not alone in your way of viewing the world.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Thu, Apr 3, 2008, at 8:18 AM

I stand by my post of several weeks ago. Stop responding to jj and he will disappear. He's just feeding off your angry responses.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Thu, Apr 3, 2008, at 8:12 AM

To those that believe Middle Eastern people should conform to American Christianity, here are some facts and some opinion. The true faith? Maybe you should read on some more of your "true faith" and realize that those Bible stories originated in the Middle East and some happened in Iraq. Ur, Iraq is believed to be the birth place and home of the prophet Abraham. Opinion isn't always based on knowledge, but who will take you seriously if you don't do a little homework. So please learn your history before you give an opinion.

How could somebody possibly want to push their own religion onto another person, especially people in a different country? Don't most people believe in "treat others how you want to be treated"? Have any of you all ever dealt with Iraqi people personally? I'd say, PROBABLY NOT. If you are such a religious person, maybe you should also read up on something called the Qur'an. Oh and if you didn't know, many citizens of the United States are Muslim. If you are trying to stereotype Muslims because of some of the acts happening in Iraq, you should realize that only a small minority of Muslims believe in terrorism as a way of getting their point across. Just as a small minority of Christians believed joining the Klu Klux Klan and burning crosses was an appropriate way to express their opinion. I think everyone would agree that a cross burning in your yard could be seen as an act of terrorism. The same could be said for blowing up churches. (I do not condone nor agree with any of these types of acts)

There are bad people everywhere. Muslims are actually very respectful and kind. Try refusing a cup of tea without seeing a hurt expression when you can't accept their hospitality. Here's some homework, go learn about other types of religions before you decide that everybody should be a Christian. I wish everybody could understand how heated this subject makes me. If you do not know what you are talking about, don't talk about it publicly, or ask somebody who has the knowledge to explain it to you. Oh and just to let you know, yes I am a Christian. I am very sorry if my past comment offended anybody by calling them ignorant. I should have thought about other people's feelings before I posted a comment.

-- Posted by Missing home on Thu, Apr 3, 2008, at 7:01 AM

Heck I forgot the "Saline County Health Department Building came in at $1.5 million"

Now I can't ponder why the old hospital couldn't have been wonderfully renovated for 1/4 of the $1.5 million and we couldn't have made do. Feels like some kind of Christmas dejavu with the kids wanting a new bike when the old bike would work just fine if the tires were aired up!!

Gee whiz I hope future repairs and upkeep are included in the cost of these million dollar buildings and we aren't going to have to raise taxes again!

-- Posted by DAgates on Wed, Apr 2, 2008, at 10:49 PM

Yes, Ms.Fairchild, I was aware that the ambulance district funds came from property tax....at least some of the funds do. A friend took a ride in one of the ambulances from Rosehill St to the hospital to get his sprained ankle x-rayed and taped. Total cost for that 1 1/2 mile ride...$698. His insurance company told him they couldn't be serious. After a struggle they allowed $315.

-- Posted by outsider on Wed, Apr 2, 2008, at 10:32 PM

I am going to have to agree about the no new taxes. If I wanted to live in Illinois or anywhere else where taxes are higher I would pack up and go. I live here in part because the taxes are less.

I tend to agree that it seems everytime something new is needed a tax increase is thrown on the ballot. I have seen some totally awesome homes the size of the new ambulance district with interior finishes that would rival a palace that are in the $300,000 to $500,000 dollar range. So 1.1 million for a metal building with a little stone for decoration seems like someone(the taxpayers) got a raking over the coals.

Don't get me wrong I'm all in support of emergency services but don't try to force feed us into thinking that half a million couldn't have accomplished the same thing. It really defeats the purpose of getting a tax rebate check from the federal government to then turn right back around and give it back for county taxes or any other tax for that matter.

I think the courthouse is in need of repairs but I also think this was poor planning. I mean when you buy a house you know that future repairs will have to made on occassion, you will have to paint, put new shingles on, fix plumbing, etc, etc... Maybe we the taxpayers should put in for a bond on the ballot to fix our homes whenever home repairs are needed. Hope my point is made...NO NEW TAXES!!!!

-- Posted by DAgates on Wed, Apr 2, 2008, at 8:31 PM

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm gettin pretty sick of hearing the phrase "it's only 1/4 percent..or it's only 1/8 percent". These elections are a formality. It's a rubber stamp process. What incentive is there for county or city leaders to actually plan, budget and manage when all they have to do is ask for more money? They come up with some sad story, publicize the heck out of it, trivialize the cost to taxpayers and bingo...people can't vote yes fast enough. I love these "sunset clauses". The only thing that ends up fading into the sunset is the "sunset clause". And don't waste space trying to explain them to me. I know exactly what they are and how they are supposed to work.

And 1.1 for the ambulance building? I wouldn't have thought that would buy lunch for the EMTs.

-- Posted by outsider on Wed, Apr 2, 2008, at 6:48 PM
Response by Kathy Fairchild/Staff writer:
Money for the ambulance district comes from property tax. In the case of the new building, funds to pay for it were set aside over a period of time, out of the regular budget - a great example of forwarding planning on the part of the folks running the district.

I also do not believe the court house renovation needs to be funded by a city sales tax- unfortunately~ that is the only choice our Council will give.

I do believe there has been purchases that were not "in need", now the court house has been put off and is "in need" of repair, hindsite is 20/20. This should have been planned for.

With the economy in this horrible rutt, I have explained to my family that there is great need to ask, "Is this a NEED or a want." before purchases.

I also would like to know... How many employers would tolerate an hourly paid employee whom chooses to go green and ride a bicycle that, (in their job description) needs to do errands: bank, post office, meetings, marketing, office supply.

I am not far from my employers bank and the post office, I walked a couple of times about 3 years ago and was told I was gone too long. Just curious on others views!

-- Posted by nomad on Wed, Apr 2, 2008, at 5:21 PM
Response by Kathy Fairchild/Staff writer:
nomad - Just to be clear - the sales tax on the ballot for courthouse renovation is a county-wide tax, not just a city tax. And you make a good point saying the courthouse renovations were put off. That's precisely why the building is in the shape it's in.

Putting any taxpayer money in the court house is like pouring sand down a rat hole. The more you pour the more it takes. They would be better off to give the court house to the historical society and then taking the sales tax money and go out and build a building that would a whole lot easier to heat, cool and citizen friendly. We could have more parking, and more handicap friendly. No matter how you spin it no matter how much money you put in that old wreck of a court house it is still over a hundred years old and not effiecent to operate. So let the historical society have and lets move on to the twenty first century.

-- Posted by green 9955 on Wed, Apr 2, 2008, at 4:13 PM
Response by Kathy Fairchild/Staff writer:
Building an entirely new courthouse is certainly one option that could be considered, but given that the new ambulance building came in at about $1.1 million and the Saline County Health Department Building came in at $1.5 million, and the fact that a new courthouse building would have to be much larger than either of those two buildings, the cost would be at least what the renovation would cost and likely much higher.

Even if the courthouse was turned over to the historical society, the cost of supporting it - with all its inefficiencies in heating/cooling, handicap accessibility and so on - would still remain and would still have to be addressed.

Let our city and county government "leaders" who wanted the Supercenter here pay for the improvements..since they're sucking tax dollars out of the county one family and one small business at a time..

That seems fair..

-- Posted by Hombre on Wed, Apr 2, 2008, at 3:29 PM

Here's a chart showing taxes in all states, including sales tax, taxes on gasoline, cigarettes, liquor and other products that may be of interest if you want to compare Missouri to other states. Don't forget to factor in property taxes, which vary widely. I previously lived in Illinois, where property tax in the town where I lived was almost three times what it is here in Marshall.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/publication...

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Apr 2, 2008, at 1:42 PM

More on the sales tax issue - the tax attached to the courthouse vote is 1/4 of one cent. You're correct that it raises the total amount of sales tax, but not by a great deal. Also a part of the ballot issue is a "sunset" provision, which retires the tax after seven years. In addition, the money raised by the tax cannot be diverted for other purposes, and includes funds for maintaining the courthouse once the renovation has been completed.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Apr 2, 2008, at 1:36 PM

saline mo - For information on the courthouse renovation project, you may want to do a search at the top of the page. We've done several stories on the issue very recently. One of the difficulties in raising funds for the project is that there is no money in the county budget for a project that large.

As to the salaries for county employees, specifically commissioners and others who are in what might be called "management" positions - the money they're paid is set by statute. They get raises only in accord with property values in the county. They cannot give themselves raises.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Apr 2, 2008, at 1:32 PM

I have just gotten out of the service and trying to get up to speed on happenings in my home county. I have heard there is a sales tax provision for courthouse repairs on next weeks ballot. Is it true that this will raise the sales tax in our county to almost 8%? This seems rather high compared to the rates I paid while living in several other states. I was also told that last year the county commissioners received a pay raise; if this is true it appears some priorities/leadership is lacking from our county officials. I know that the tax is very small; but combined with the other sales taxes currently being paid, you will not be paying an 'extra' $0.25 for $100 worth or groceries.....rather you will now be paying $8.00 in sales tax for those groceries. I have heard other stories regarding this issue and was curious as to what others think. We have a beautiful court house.......is this the best way to go about preserving it?

-- Posted by saline mo on Wed, Apr 2, 2008, at 11:49 AM

Missing Home,

Nope, I have never flagged anyone's posts.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Apr 2, 2008, at 11:45 AM

Way to go smokin cheetah. :)

-- Posted by missouriwoman on Wed, Apr 2, 2008, at 10:37 AM

So what the f...

Are you the one that pushed the exclamation point on my comment? If so, I didn't want to offend you. We both agree that someone should not push their religion onto another person.

-- Posted by Missing home on Wed, Apr 2, 2008, at 10:33 AM

It was because you called someone ignorant.

Ignorance does not mean stupid, it just means someone doesn't know any better. I guess Eric considers calling someone ignorant "name calling". I wonder if it matters how it's framed, for example: you can't say "your ignorant", but can you say

"yor are showing your ignorance"? Hmmmm......

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Apr 2, 2008, at 9:57 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Yes, I do. "Ignorant" may have a relatively benign meaning, by itself, but it is so often used as an insult that it has become an insult. Part of the problem is in the root of the word. "Ignore" suggests a certain willfulness or negligence on the part of the person who lacks knowledge -- as opposed to "innocence" or "naivete," which suggest a lack of guilt. I agree with the distinction you make here, and yes, I would consider the second example less offensive than the first, but there are other ways to inform people when they appear to lack knowledge on a subject without employing this word.

Well I had posted a comment about people stereotying against the Islamic religions. Somebody apparently took offense to it because now my comment is longer on the page. Sometimes things like that make me ashamed of where I am from. I know it happens all over the United States but I never thought it would happen at where I am from. I guess the truth hurts.

-- Posted by Missing home on Wed, Apr 2, 2008, at 9:43 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
I was a good comment, very informative -- except for that first line.

Maybe Jesus4you,

Could you be be more specific?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Apr 1, 2008, at 9:20 PM

quoting marx? since communism is so super-successful, maybe you can grant me a loan comrade

-- Posted by jesus4life on Tue, Apr 1, 2008, at 8:45 PM

American Christians?

Well I must say that is a perfectly sterotypical Christian comment. No religion other the Christianity exists, especially in in Iraq, right? Do they not have the right to observe the religion of thier choosing with out yours being thrust upon them and vice versa. Your attitude towards religion and Christianity specifically is one of the reasons the world is in the mess we are in today. Religion in general is the bain of society and the opiate of the masses.

What's next? Maybe a good old fashioned inquisition? Perhaps a garden variety witch burning?

"because it should belong to the true faith...american christians" - Now that's offensive.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Apr 1, 2008, at 8:28 PM

i agree with jj...iraq should be the 51st state, because it should belong to the true faith...american christians

-- Posted by jesus4life on Tue, Apr 1, 2008, at 8:07 PM

Yes, I went to the forum last night. It is a shame that with all the hoopla that has gone on, very few people came out to see what the candidates for the school board had to say. I, for one, was glad I went to listen to the candidates.

-- Posted by niuges on Tue, Apr 1, 2008, at 6:08 PM

I would like to know why you deleted my opinion

-- Posted by purpleroses on Tue, Apr 1, 2008, at 4:46 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
I sent a reply to the email address you have on file with us, but it bounced. Please send email to marshalleditor@socket.net and I'll reply.

Just a reminder to all:

Although it may seem at times like anything at all goes in the Speak Out and story comments, a few things do get deleted, usually by me, because they are deemed, usually but not always by me, to be in violation of our comment policy. (See above.)

We don't edit comments, so it's possible a whole comment will be deleted because one word or phrase or sentence spoils the whole thing. The most common causes are tossing insults and making accusations that seem unverifiable.

If that happens to you, you're welcome to revise a bit and post the comment again.

Understandably, folks often wonder why their comments get deleted. I'm happy to explain. Write to marshalleditor@socket.net and I'll get back to you as soon as I can.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Tue, Apr 1, 2008, at 4:13 PM

In due time people will see JJ for what is really is. And that is something I can not state on here unfortunatly.

-- Posted by get a clue on Tue, Apr 1, 2008, at 4:13 PM

Good points JJ. good thing that slater isn't a very good cross section of our country, otherwise capitalism probably wouldn't work well. Good ideas are needed for capitalism to work... and, well ... not many of them are come from slater.

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Tue, Apr 1, 2008, at 2:47 PM

I'm sorry JJ, I'm a women from Slater and I don't think I've ever met a person as insulting and rude as you. Why don't you quit insulting people and start asking insightful questions that could be debated upon? Ones the are relevant to the community...

Such as...

How will it affect the economy of towns such as Glasgow, Gilliam, and Slater... even Marshall if a ferry service cannot be contracted for the period during which the Glasgow bridge will be under construction?

-- Posted by Gracie May on Tue, Apr 1, 2008, at 2:41 PM

I would have to agree with duke. JJ is a flamer!

-- Posted by aen2012 on Tue, Apr 1, 2008, at 2:35 PM

My point is not that I want Congress to bail us out of the gas crisis. They can't and won't. My point is that Congress is "all show and no go" on the issue. They grandstand on television, but probably still quietly take contributions from big oil. My guess is that America will not get serious about alternative energy until gas reaches $5 a gallon or more. I am confident Congress has better ways to spend their time, and our money!

-- Posted by OldOwl on Tue, Apr 1, 2008, at 2:12 PM

Did anyone go to the School Board Forum last night and if so what are your opinions?

-- Posted by Cat Lover on Tue, Apr 1, 2008, at 1:54 PM

If my suspicions are correct, the news tonight will be filled with big oil execs being grilled by Congress. We will hear our reps rant and rave and rake the execs over the coals. Then, gas prices will continue to skyrocket. Two years ago, we saw this same showboating in Congress. At the time, oil was $60 a barrel. One year ago, oil hit $75 a barrel and congress pulled the same stunt. Now, oil is at $111 a barrel and what do we do, call the execs in, make long-winded speeches, then...ask them to give us tax breaks. Why is Congress asking? For the past two years the House has approved legislation that would have ended the tax breaks, but the Senate refused to go along. How about we try something different this time?

-- Posted by OldOwl on Tue, Apr 1, 2008, at 12:45 PM

To: Smokin' Cheetah

I would like to thank you for what you said about me. I really appreciate it. I do my best!!! I do my best in school, I love my town but I want to see the world I want to see other people's lifes in action. I plan on attending college this fall and major in economics and minor in international business. I really appreciate the advice you gave for a successful life,you really summed it all up!!! Thanks again for what you said I really do appreciate it. GO SHS!!!

-- Posted by aen2012 on Tue, Apr 1, 2008, at 11:38 AM

I sure did spell a few word's wrong. Sorry. I really can spell.. Has anyone ever had a very stressful day? Well that would of been me, yesterday. I guess i should try the spell check. Oh my gosh, i made a mistake, has anyone else ever done that? Remember we are NOT perfect. And yes the ymca does have SOME assistance, but it does not cover everything. So go figure. And if there was more for the kids to do, maybe there wouldn't be as many in trouble. Oh but that is the parent's fault, right? NOT totaly. What ever happen to letting the parent's disciplien their children, not beat them, but disciplien, but oh no, can't do that, but if they get into trouble, then they can be sent of to a boot camp and the big man can take care of them. How is that fair? Never hurt me or my brother or sister to get a swatting. Ta Ta 4 Now...

-- Posted by missouriwoman on Tue, Apr 1, 2008, at 10:47 AM

No i dont think it can get much worse my kids have been living on romen noodles and chicken strips for the last week because there is no money for food and yes you can get assitance and it does not pay all the fees for your kids to attend the ymca so if you have no money left then they dont go .YOU know i just realized how many kids are locked up from marshall alot .there would be less kids in trouble here if some of these more fortunate business ran specials where i come from the movie theater runs 1.oo movies on the weekend for matina and the skate palce also does that and look at the pool price my gosh my kids will never go there they will have to go to slater much cheaper there .

-- Posted by purpleroses on Tue, Apr 1, 2008, at 9:55 AM

Amen, Congress needs to get their priorities in order!!!

-- Posted by aen2012 on Tue, Apr 1, 2008, at 9:47 AM

In what has become almost an annual ritual, execs from the big oil companies will be on the Hill today to explain why they are making obscene profits and still getting huge tax breaks. As in years past, the execs will be grilled and when they leave, nothing will happen except for increased prices at the pump. How about a little less talk and a lot more action from Congress?

-- Posted by OldOwl on Tue, Apr 1, 2008, at 9:29 AM

To: prd123

Thank you for responding to my comment and making it aware to me that Highway 240 is a state highway. What I was trying to say was for the Slater City Council to possibly work with MoDot in making that intersection safer for people in the community as well as visitors that come for special events,etc. I would like to say again that a traffic light would make that intersection much safer.

To: All those that think Slater people are dumb

Well I am from Slater and I do my best in school and I am a senior this year and we have a lot of smart people in our class. My fellow peers are talented and caring people. I love Slater and although I want to move out of the state and see the world, I will never forget Slater and the loving people from the community!!!!

-- Posted by aen2012 on Tue, Apr 1, 2008, at 9:13 AM

if you want some nice kids clothes at low price you should go into serendipity. yes the clothes aren't brand new but hey, my kids love them plus they are about the same price as wal mart.

the roads in this town are always messed up because they are consistently working on the good roads while the bad roads are slowly becoming the good roads.

activities at the ymca... you can sign up for assistance to help cover most of the cost of the programs so you won't have to pay the full price and the kids can still participate in them.

we don't have many grocery stores in this town due to the fact that wal mart has run most of them out of town. do you remember north iga? yes it may have been a small store but now everyone on that side of town can't just run down the road for some bread or chips. they have to go to patricia's or... you guessed it wal mart. eventually wal mart is going to be the only thing in this town. it is going to put everything else out of business. but that's just my opinion.

weather reports on here.. seriously.. you can never get tired of seeing that. quit worrying about coming up with something smart to say so it will get people riled up. you have your own blog to do that on. also would you kindly use some spell check when you are trying to use someone elses name and replacing the first initials with yours.

Thank You.

-- Posted by AnnaBell on Tue, Apr 1, 2008, at 6:56 AM

I have been reading some comment's about thing's like the road's being bad, nothing for the kids to do, and there not being enough stores. I just want to say that some of you all are taking what you have for granted. Enjoy what you have, you never know one day it could all be gone. It could always get worse.

-- Posted by Missing home on Tue, Apr 1, 2008, at 5:04 AM

JJ, whatever would make you think I was referring to you???? Unfortunately, the term "LOL" is not quite strong enough to cover my laughter right now. You, sir, would never be guilty of any tongue-in-cheek comments!

-- Posted by oneofmany on Tue, Apr 1, 2008, at 12:20 AM

I would just like to know how long is the sports editor of this newspaper going to wait until he puts any track meet information in the paper? The track meet on March 24 never did appear in the paper. I get so tired, along with other people in this community, of seeing other sports teams from other towns in our paper and never see our own team results published. I know sometimes it takes a day or so to get information, but it was the same way with the volleyball team this year. We saw stories on Sweet Springs, Santa Fe and other schools, but only a small story on our team. Isn't this suppose to be the Marshall paper? I think it is fine to put other towns in the paper, but at least give our kids the same respect. Maybe we should have more than one sports writer so that all teams can be covered. This has been a complaint I have heard from many people in this community. So, please start covering our schools more.

-- Posted by volleyballmom on Mon, Mar 31, 2008, at 10:51 PM

From an Economist - "The Recession is a Media Myth"

John Lott's website

http://johnrlott.tripod.com/op-eds/FoxNe...

The 'Recession' Is a Media Myth

By John R. Lott, Jr.

-- Posted by The Conservative on Mon, Mar 31, 2008, at 8:42 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
I removed the full text of Mr. Lott's essay, not because the content is inappropriate but because the length is too much for a conversational forum like this one where each comment is appended to the previous comments. Excessively long texts have a way of taking over the whole space. Plus, since you've kindly provided the URL, everyone who wants to read the essay should have no trouble doing so.

Missouriwoman...you might see if you and Purplerose can get together on some ideas. You two have some of the same ideology (and spelling). Of course I think Purplerose may have moved to the big city, at least I think that was her plan after not being happy with what was available in our community.

-- Posted by Superwiner on Mon, Mar 31, 2008, at 8:21 PM

I totaly agree that the bleechers at the baesball fields need to be replaced!!! I'm 40 years old and the same bleecher were there when i was a kid!! Several years ago i feel down them, the steps are to close together and they sag when you walk down them. I'm not a very heavy person but those steps could break if a real heavy person went down them.

We also need more things in town for the kids to do...

There are alot of kids in town that are really good at sports, but it cost to much for them to join,

The YMCA, now that's another story, to be involved in any activities, the kids have to pay extra, even if they are memebrs, and then you got the children's who parent's cant even afford for them to join the y, so they have to pay even more to do any of the activties, The members cant use the swimming pool between 3:30 and 5:30 and some day's it's later than that.. How about putting a swimming pool at the high school?

We need more store in marshall to give wal-mart some compention. Like target, kohls, more grocery store's, and we need some bussinesses on the north side of town...

And the rent in this town is way to high on houses... The poor is getting poorer and the rich is getting richer...

The street's in marshall are terrible!!!

Well enough for now, if i think of anything else, i will be back.

-- Posted by missouriwoman on Mon, Mar 31, 2008, at 5:04 PM

Me1234,

I enjoy going into Adventure Quest Kids to browse... Very nice and friendly people.

Can I afford it?? HECK NO! Most of the time I'm looking through the sale items hoping to find something inexpensive that my child may be able to fit the next season.

-- Posted by nomad on Mon, Mar 31, 2008, at 3:42 PM

two quick things:

1. Just read an email from the MPS about not having enough $ to pay the current staff next year their salaries and career ladder if the staff numbers are maintained. They are trying to not replace some VERY vital teaching positions, which means larger class sizes and less special services for students. This is not fair to our students. I support career ladder, but something needs to change so that students' needs are fairly met.

2. I read some comments on here about crappy kids' clothing from Wal-Mart. I don't have kids, so I don't know a lot on that topic, but what about clothing from Adventure Quest Kids on Odell street for those that want to stay local?

-- Posted by me1234 on Mon, Mar 31, 2008, at 3:36 PM

i just heard that there was a tree on lincoln and vest by the housing units, or projects. whatever you want to call them

-- Posted by AnnaBell on Mon, Mar 31, 2008, at 2:13 PM

A house in the 300 block of East Arrow has a tree laying on it.

-- Posted by broke-n-busted on Mon, Mar 31, 2008, at 1:44 PM

For those of you who are new to SPEAK OUT, you must understand that some people say things just to push buttons! Hmmmm! I wonder who that could be???

-- Posted by oneofmany on Mon, Mar 31, 2008, at 12:41 PM

I've been hearing reports on the scanner all morning of power lines down, tree limbs down, trucks blown off highways and other wind-related events. Rachel just got back from taking pictures of a house that was hit by a tree on N. Ellsworth in Marshall shortly after 10 a.m.

Anybody else have reports of wind-related damage?

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Mon, Mar 31, 2008, at 11:04 AM

jj, thanks for letting us know the Truth about Slater and Steve.

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Mon, Mar 31, 2008, at 8:38 AM

my god is a forgiving god...on behalf of MDN, sorry

-- Posted by jesus4life on Mon, Mar 31, 2008, at 8:03 AM

I was in Slater not long ago and commented about how much the mayor and the rest of the administration have done to promote their city. Both the blues festival and the Steve McQueen festival bring in people from around the state and country as well. BHA has also been a booming business for the community. Keep up the good work, Slater. It's not easy for small towns to survive. Also, thanks to the Democrat News for covering all area events.

-- Posted by oneofmany on Sun, Mar 30, 2008, at 4:45 PM

To anthonyno8-

Thank you for your interest in making the roads safer going into Slater. It is to my understanding that a new Casey's store is going in around this location and that the City has met with MoDOT to address this intersection.

However- it is a STATE road and is primarily up to MoDot on what gets done. Please keep that in mind.

-- Posted by prd123 on Sun, Mar 30, 2008, at 4:33 PM

Wow you all are just really pathetic.

At least McQueen was man enough to use his real name and not some ficticious "queer" name.

Anytime you want to match your credentials against mine or anyone else in Slater---BRING IT. Slater has numerous fighter pilots, lawyers, doctors, professional sport athletes, the same as most small towns. Seems to me like there is a little animosity of Slater's success vs. your poor life. It appears that Saline County as a whole does not fit your taste- so why don't you do everyone a favor and move on.....

What really suprises me, is the City of Slater continues to support this newspaper with numerous AD's...yet in return has to read crap like this.

-- Posted by prd123 on Sun, Mar 30, 2008, at 4:20 PM

I am proud to be an American and proud of my hometown community and their support of the Vets for Freedom Tour and proud of my brother's effort to get the tour to include Marshall on their route. Our military deserves all the Thank Yous we can give them.

-- Posted by findme on Sat, Mar 29, 2008, at 8:17 PM

The Conservative,

I couldn't agree more. I hope this election cycle will bring us a leader who will inspire us about energy the way JKF did with the space program. This is actually a great opportunity for the US to become one again, with a real and tangible goals that we can all be proud of. Let's take the the money we are dumping overseas and put that into research, conservation and recycling programs. Being energy self suffcient would also create tremendous employment opportunities. Education. Let's get kids interested in math and science as much as possible instead of turning them in to mindless video game drones. We try to conserve at home and in our driving and recycling habits but I know I can do more and will dedicate myself to doing better.

Let's think about the way America pulled together during World War II. If we really want to get even for 9/11, let's do it by ending our reliance on others. Revenge is a dish best served cold so I say we serve up a heaping bowl of cold shoulder when it comes to foreign oil.

C'mon Marshall. C'mon America we can do this. It's the little things that add up.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 9:03 PM

Well, just to set the record straight. I am all for alternative energy, i.e. wind, ethanol, etc.

They are just not the Godsend everyone is making them out to be. But they can be with the right guidance, courage and determination that Americans have at our disposal.

We need to pursue a different direction for our energy needs in order to get rid of our dependence on foreign oil. In the short term we need to drill more for oil including Anwar. Build more refineries, and think serious again about nuclear reactors. We need to set our sights and goals of where we want to be in the next 10, 20, 30 years. We need a program like the one John F. Kennedy had when we went to the moon and adapt that attitude and resources towards that goal. This is America, we have the knowledge, the money, and the smarts to achieve this reality.

China and India will have more cars on the road then America in less than 15 years. They are vying for oil imports on a huge scale. Oil will then be more of a shortage then it is today.

-- Posted by The Conservative on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 7:51 PM

I agree with Conservative regarding the ethanol issue. He presented his position in detail, brought cited support, and did not harangue. It will be interesting to see the outcome regarding future ethanol production from corn. There are big players on both sides of the issue. Neither will roll over. Job well done Conservative. By the way I am a diehard Progressive, who used to be a Yellow Dog Democrat. Maybe just maybe, we can all get along. We are all at common purpose in our need to overcome greed, and save our world for the Grandkids.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 6:48 PM

If only I could tell you about stuff swept under the rug so to speak, but, right now it would be to my best interest to keep quiet about specific things. I'm not saying the whole Board needs to be replaced, but, we do need new blood in to ask questions and ask questions again.

-- Posted by Cat Lover on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 3:47 PM

Catlover, when exactly is "eventually". I'll wait patiently for the "truth" to be revealed! As for the articles about Mr. Blakely's release from the school district, this episode is just one of many. Again, please ask school district employees about their concerns! Most employees of the district at the time can share details of his "work" in the district.

Thanks, DAgates, for your comments. I wholeheartedly agree. I have seen no special interests or hidden agenda from this board, and would love to hear of specific examples of such if you have them. They are unpaid volunteers who were elected to do just what they did! I'm sure it hasn't been easy on them. Some make it sound like they are a secret society of evildoers who sit around and plot their next move. I wonder how many of us would volunteer to put up with the abuse they've had to tolerate. I also do not know much about some of the other candidates and would love to be informed before the forum Monday night. Let me know if you have info.

-- Posted by oneofmany on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 2:27 PM

Catlover, when exactly is "eventually". I'll wait patiently for the "truth" to be revealed! As for the articles about Mr. Blakely's release from the school district, this one is just one of many. Again, please ask school district employees about their concerns!

Thanks, DAgates, for your comments. I wholeheartedly agree. I have seen no special interests or hidden agenda from this board, and would love to hear of specific examples of such if you've got them. They are unpaid volunteers who were elected to do just what they did! I'm sure it hasn't been easy to do. I wonder how many of us would volunteer to put up with the abuse they've had to tolerate. I also do not know much about some of the other candidates and would love to be informed before the forum Monday night. Let me know if you have info.

-- Posted by oneofmany on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 2:23 PM

Cheetah, thanks for the info on one of the candidates for school board. I found it very useful. I am using the MDN search to check out all of the candidates!

-- Posted by OldOwl on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 2:06 PM

The City of Slater needs to think about putting in a traffic light as you head north into town off of Highway 240. The area I am referring to is on the curve where you go left into to town or go on around the corner past Break-Time. I know this would cost a lot of money but it is not safe at this "intersection." i have witnessed a couple of accidents at this location and have alomost been in an accident myself. Big trucks come flying into town and do not slow down at all. I really think there needs to be a traffic light at this location and the members of the city council in Slater need to talk about this issue.

-- Posted by aen2012 on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 12:05 PM

The present School Board consists of a human resource officer, a retired school teacher, an administrator from a hospital, a minister/policeman, an insurance/real estate salesperson, a lawyer and a college professor/soldier. With the exception of the lawyer (and who likes lawyers anyway?), I don't see anyone else on the Board that is "suspect" and I certainly don't see any politics involved. If anyone has details, now is the time to share! Not sure how a school board can be "political." Likewise, if anyone has information (i.e. details and specifics) that the current board is not looking out for the best interests of our children, we need to hear that too! I know one of the candidates is a former employee of the district who served under Mr. Aull, but I don't know what happened with him. The other candidates I really don't know. If anyone knows anything about them, would you please share!

-- Posted by OldOwl on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 10:48 AM

I wish people would stop making vague comments and just present the facts and evidence so we can make an informed decision. I hate voting on the "ole warm and fuzzy gut feeling." Why does everything have to be a big secret, if you know something then just tell us!! Or do you not really know anything??? Are we just trying to stir the kettle with some insinuating propaganda??

-- Posted by DAgates on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 10:16 AM

OneofMany, You are so very clueless as to the politics involved with the Board. Eventually it will all come out and you will feel, well, I guess the best word would be astonished.

-- Posted by Cat Lover on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 9:09 AM

Saline, that is interesting? Could you expand on a specific incident with the board member that you feel has not had the best interest of the students in mind? Maybe you could even give us specifics about the personal agenda you are insinuating has occurred? We would all love to hear the facts and evidence so we can make a more informed choice on voting day. Which new board candidate do you feel would be better and why?

-- Posted by DAgates on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 8:40 AM

It appears to me that there needs to be a change on the Marshall School Board. Board members should be have the students at mind, not their own personal agendas.

-- Posted by saline on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 7:55 AM

Dear What the f......,

I agree. In fact T. Boone Pickens, the Texas oil-man who admitted he once opposed ethanol has now changed his mind.

Recently on CNBC's daily "Squawk Box" he said that America's purchases of foreign oil are costing the country a half a trillion dollars every year.

"You take 10 years, and you have $5 trillion," he said. "That's more than $1 billion a day. We can't stand that."

He now supports increased ethanol production.

"I'd rather have ethanol and recirculate the money in the country, than to have it go out the back door on us."

For his part in diversifying our energy supplies, Pickens is investing $10 billion in wind energy.

(Forrest Laws, Delta Farm Press)

Dear Kaynmo:

Using the blend now available at Missouri gas stations, which is 10 percent ethanol, most do not see any difference in gas mileage. On a personal note, I find a slight increase in mileage with the 10 percent blend.

E-85,which contains 85 percent ethanol, can can only be used in engines approved for that blend. It does cause a drop in gas mileage, but does cost less- often offsetting the difference. From what I understand, engines more capable of using the higher blends are in the works and will lessen the mileage differences.

And Dear Conservative: It is obvious you don't think much of ethanol. You certainly have that right. I stand by my earlier comments.

Sincerely,

Marcia Gorrell

Agriculture Reporter

Marshall Democrat-News.

-- Posted by Marcia Gorrell on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 7:29 AM

I guess one consolation would be less money going to overseas oil producers.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Mar 27, 2008, at 10:00 PM

Ethanol Demand in U.S. Adds to Food, Fertilizer Costs (Update3)

By Alan Bjerga

Feb. 21 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. plans to replace 15 percent of gasoline consumption with crop-based fuels including ethanol are already leading to some unintended consequences as food prices and fertilizer costs increase.

About 33 percent of U.S. corn will be used for fuel during the next decade, up from 11 percent in 2002, the Agriculture Department estimates. Corn rose 20 percent to a record on the Chicago Board of Trade since Dec. 19, the day President George W. Bush signed a law requiring a fivefold jump in renewable fuels by 2022.

Increased demand for the grain helped boost food prices by 4.9 percent last year, the most since 1990, and will reduce global inventories of corn to the lowest in 24 years, government data show. While advocates say ethanol is cleaner than gasoline, a Princeton University study this month said it causes more environmental harm than fossil fuels.

``We are mandating and subsidizing something that is distorting the marketplace,'' said Cal Dooley, a former U.S. congressman from California, who represents companies including Kraft Foods Inc. and General Mills Inc. as president of the Grocery Manufacturers Association in Washington. ``There are no excess commodities, and prices are rising.''

The energy bill requires the U.S. to use 36 billion gallons of renewable fuels by 2022, of which about 15 billion gallons may come from corn-based ethanol. The nation's current production capacity is about 8.06 billion gallons.

Alternative Energy

Oil prices tripled since the end of 2003, causing the government to consider alternative fuels. Now, the competition for corn is leading to higher costs for food companies, raising prices for everything from cattle to dairy products.

Corn doubled in the past two years, touching a record $5.29 a bushel today in Chicago. The price of young cattle sold to feedlots gained 8.7 percent in the past year, reaching a record $1.1965 a pound on Sept. 6 on the Chicago Mercantile Exchange. Average whole milk rose 26 percent to $3.871 a gallon in January from a year earlier, the Department of Labor said yesterday.

``For thousands of years, humans grew food and ate it,'' said Andrew Redleaf, 50, chief executive officer of Whitebox Advisors LLC, a Minneapolis hedge fund that manages $3 billion. ``Now we are burning crops to make fuel.''

Whitebox bought three U.S. grain depots in the past year to profit from the growth in demand.

Updated Forecast

Farmers will have to increase planting of corn for ethanol by 43 percent to 30 million acres by 2015 to meet the government's requirements, said Bill Nelson, a vice president at A.G. Edwards Inc. in St. Louis. This year, growers outside the Midwest are focused on more profitable crops such as soybeans and wheat, the USDA said today in a crop forecast.

Corn planting will fall 3.8 percent this year to 90 million acres as farmers sow 12 percent more land with soybeans and 6 percent more with wheat, Joe Glauber, USDA acting chief economist, said today at the department's annual conference in Arlington, Virginia. The USDA said Feb. 8 that world corn reserves would drop for the seventh year in the past eight.

Increased planting has caused some fertilizer costs to double. Diammonium phosphate, a nutrient used on corn fields, reached $792.50 a ton on Feb. 15 from $297 a year earlier, USDA data show.

Greenhouse Gases

Researchers led by Timothy Searchinger at Princeton University said their study showed greenhouse-gas emissions will rise with ethanol demand. U.S. farmers will use more land for fuel, forcing poorer countries to cut down rainforests and use other undeveloped land for farms, the study said.

Searchinger's team determined that corn-based ethanol almost doubles greenhouse-gas output over 30 years when considering land-use changes. Bob Dinneen, president of the Renewable Fuels Association in Washington, said the study used a flawed model and overestimated how much land will be needed.

Ethanol is important in reducing emissions, ending energy dependence on the Middle East and creating jobs in rural areas, Dinneen said today at the USDA conference.

``There are still some who want us to choose between food and fuel,'' said Dinneen, whose organization represents ethanol producers including Archer Daniels Midland Co. ``I don't think we have to choose.'' Research shows cellulosic ethanol made from grasses and crop waste may contribute 21 billion gallons by 2022, and farmers will be able to boost yields, he said.

Food Costs Rise

U.S. food costs, which account for about a fifth of the consumer-price index, rose 0.7 percent in January, the Labor Department said Feb. 20. They will increase as much as 4 percent this year, Glauber said in remarks at the forum.

``Food prices through 2010 will rise greater than the overall inflation rate,'' because of rising energy and commodity costs, he said.

Ethanol's contribution to inflation is limited, USDA economist Ephraim Leibtag said in an interview. A 50 percent jump in corn prices in 2007 from the 20-year average only added 1.6 cents to the cost of an 18-ounce box of Kellogg Co. Corn Flakes cereal, Leibtag said. The cost is less than 2 percent per box, JPMorgan Chase & Co. estimates.

Ethanol's boom helps restrain government spending on farm subsidies, said House Agriculture Committee Chairman Collin Peterson, a Minnesota Democrat. The USDA expects taxpayers to spend $941 million on the two main subsidy programs tied to price this year, down from $9.1 billion in 2006.

Smithfield, Tyson

For food companies, demand for ethanol translates into lower profits and job cuts.

Smithfield Foods Inc., the largest U.S. hog producer, said Feb. 19 it will cut output by as much as 1 million animals a year, or 5 percent, because feed costs are too high. The company is based in Smithfield, Virginia.

Tyson Foods Inc., the largest U.S. meat company, forecast an increase in grain costs this year of more than $500 million. Springdale, Arkansas-based Tyson also reported a 40 percent drop in first-quarter profit and said it will close a beef plant in Kansas, firing 1,800 workers.

Ethanol ``has caused a domino effect,'' CEO Richard L. Bond said in a statement Jan. 28. ``For the foreseeable future, consumers will pay more and more for food.''

To contact the reporter on this story: Alan Bjerga in Washington at abjerga@bloomberg.net.

-- Posted by The Conservative on Thu, Mar 27, 2008, at 8:17 PM

ETHANOL FACTS

Since 2000, the share of U.S. corn crop devoted to ethanol production has increased from 6 percent to 25 percent -- and climbing.

Even if the entire U.S. corn crop were diverted to ethanol, it would replace only 12 percent of the country transportation fuel.

Substituting corn-based ethanol for gasoline results in little reduction to greenhouse gases and produces poorer gas mileage.

Robert Samuelson, Washington Post

Wholesale turnover of Midwestern farmlands to plant corn for ethanol has inflated the price of food, from wheat to meat. More intensive land use also has drawn down water supplies in America's bread basket, and energy is burned up tilling, fertilizing and hauling the crop to ethanol plants.

Monday, January 7, 2008

The Fallacy of Ethanal

There have been a number of people who have been trying to convince us that ethanol is a viable source of energy. But is there any truth in what they claim?

According to David Pimental (agricultural expert, Cornell University) it would take 11 acres of farmland to grow enough corn to make enough ethanol to run the average U.S. automobile for one year, if blended with gasoline, as it now is. This is equal to the amount of farmland required to feed seven people for one year. More important, 131,000 BTUs are needed to make one gallon of ethanol, while one gallon of ethanol has an energy value of only 77,000 BTUS. This means it takes 70 percent more energy to produce ethanol than the energy that is actually in the ethanol.

Every time you make one gallon of ethanol, there is a net energy loss of 54,000 BTUs. In other words, production of ethanol creates a substantial LOSS of energy, making ethanol production unsustainable. An acre of U.S. corn yields about 7,110 pounds of corn for processing into 328 gallons of ethanol. But planting, growing and harvesting that much corn requires about 140 gallons of fossil fuels. But even more important is the fact that we cannot replace the fossil fuel with ethanol, because ethanol is so much more expensive than fossil fuels when you add the costs of converting the corn into ethanol.

The growers and processors can't afford to burn ethanol to make ethanol. U.S. drivers couldn't afford it, either, if it weren't for government subsidies to artificially lower the price. Now, here is something the ethanol crowd won't tell you. Corn is a "heavy feeder" - it requires more fertilizer, more nitrogen and phosphorous than most other crops, erodes soil about 12 times faster than the soil can be reformed, and irrigating corn uses up groundwater 25 percent faster than the natural recharge rate of ground water.

In short, corn is not a sustainable energy source, especially in the amount that would be required. And then we must consider costs to consumers. Using all the corn necessary to make a difference results in higher prices for meat, milk and eggs because about 70 percent of corn grain is fed to livestock and poultry in the United States. Increasing ethanol production would further inflate corn prices. Your food costs would increase significantly. And if a drought occurs, food for human consumption could disappear. And, to make matters worse, the U.S. Census states the world population is expected to double over the next 40 years. With food resources already strained, can we really afford to turn food into fuel?

If all the automobiles in the United States were fueled with 100 percent ethanol, a total of about 97 percent of U.S. land area would be needed to grow the corn. Corn would cover nearly the total land area of the United States. I would like to see America become self-sufficient insofar as energy is concerned. But before we jump onto any bandwagon, we really need to look at the bigger picture, and ask ourselves what the ultimate cost would be. What are the long term effects? Is it sustainable? Does it cost more to make than what you get? What are the dangers?

I just hope we do not run out of time before we find answers.

-- Posted by The Conservative on Thu, Mar 27, 2008, at 8:08 PM

Cat lover, I'm not sure just which story you're referring to as false, as there are many instances from which to choose. Intelligence does not necessarily translate to sound judgement. Again, please check with school district employees when considering the best candidates for the school board. There are many, many concerns!

As for the present board, I am still baffled as to why they are to blame for this situation. They can only make decisions based on the information they are given. The superintendent gives them information on which to base those decisions. To quote old Harry Truman, "The buck stops here!" In this situation, the "here" is the superintendent's desk. I've heard people say they should have known the information they were receiving about the budget was false. They could not sit at central office and watch as each requisition was approved. I'm voting for the present board and thanking them for doing the right thing. Our school district is going through a really austere time financially and our children are suffering for it. The responsibility falls squarely on the shoulders of the person who made the decisions to spend money foolishly...and it wasn't the board. Here's an example for you. If I give information to my tax person, and she fills out my taxes correctly based on my information, she is not to blame if I get audited. If I say I have charitable contributions worth $2,000 and I give her a list of those deductions, she's going to prepare my taxes in good faith. If I only have $1,000 in contributions, she doesn't know that. She doesn't see my checking account or ask for my receipts. She's counting on me to be honest. If I get audited, I'm the one who is responsible for bringing those receipts to the table. The superintendent had a chance to "bring his receipts to the table", and it didn't happen. To me, the board has been through the fire and is much wiser for it.

P.S.. I'm in no way related to any board member, nor am I a school district employee. I'm just a proud Marshallite who cares about our kids.

-- Posted by oneofmany on Thu, Mar 27, 2008, at 8:07 PM

To whom it may conern,

As stated before I was more than willing and hoping to move on from the subject but I will not be bullied and I will not change my screen name. Period. End of of story.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Mar 27, 2008, at 6:29 PM

kay-

That is something I haven't heard of trying in Marshall but I'm sure it would work with all of the young kids I hear complaining about nothing to do here. We do have the skating ring and the bowling alley but some parents I'm sure don't like their kids going out to the bowling alley for the fact that you can smoke out there. When I would spend the summer with my grandparents in Kentucky there was a place like that not to far from us and we went as much as possible. I'm sure the kids in this community would LOVE something like that here because I know I would(and I'm in my middle 20's).

The only problem I'm sure most people would have would be the price once the center got opened. I don't know what it would cost to run a center like that.

-- Posted by AnnaBell on Thu, Mar 27, 2008, at 5:14 PM

http://www.nida.nih.gov/MarijBroch/Marij...

-- Posted by DAgates on Thu, Mar 27, 2008, at 4:31 PM

Coming on this page everyday is like talking to middle schoolers. Each and every single one of them has something to say but after a while no one really cares anymore. Please can we just talk about the news......I see people are trying to but it seems that the screen name debate is still going strong. It's like you get on every so often and if your post about the screen names isn't showing on the first page you have to think of something to say just so your name will be on one of the few posts that show up on this speak out section. Don't get me wrong I am all about defending something but this has gone way too far....even for a middle schooler. So would you all please do everyone else on here a favor and stop it already. Let's all act like grown ups here. Please talk about something else other than yourselves or if you can't do that do as kay suggested and go fight it out somewhere else. I'm sure that the Humanics group at Valley has some boxes that you could use to make a ring and you can do it right there on campus.

-- Posted by AnnaBell on Thu, Mar 27, 2008, at 3:47 PM

I want to make sure I am following Hillary Clinton's logic. She says that SHE is qualified to be commander in chief and that MCCAIN is ready to be commander, but that Obama is not! If she is being truthful, and assuming Obama is the evenutal Democratic nominee, is Hillary suggesting we should vote for McCain over Obama in November? Hmmmmm!

-- Posted by OldOwl on Thu, Mar 27, 2008, at 3:00 PM

My attitude as you put is a direct result of comments people make usually out of ignorance about a subject. Ignorance is not a crime nor does it imply that someone is stupid. It merely means that they don't know any better, yet comment as if they do. I was responding to a comment they made on another page. You'll notice here they came back with a well crafted and intelligent retort.

"I'm sorry I couldn't hear you over your bong gurgling. Whatever pothead peace out!!"

See what I mean. Are you offended because I take offense to others deciding for me what I may or may not ingest into my body?

Are you going to start the whole screen name business all aover again? I thought we had gotten past that. If you think no one could possibly be offended by your screen name then you could'nt be more mistaken.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Mar 27, 2008, at 2:16 PM

I'm sorry I couldn't hear you over your bong gurgling. Whatever pothead peace out!!

-- Posted by DAgates on Thu, Mar 27, 2008, at 1:59 PM

"what the f..."

not only do i find your screenname offensive, but also just your attitude towards everyone, in general. I have some words of wisdom for you: WWECD? What would Eric Crump do? Be nice to everyone, thats what.

-- Posted by jesus4life on Thu, Mar 27, 2008, at 1:37 PM

DAgates,

So it's official then, the US us trying to get rid of tobacco? I'll thank you not to speak for me. I don't want to hear any song and dance about how it's costing you money either. Smokers pay through the nose for the right tot smoke and it's not our fault that money does not end up going where it's supposed to go. Once a smoker get's sick thier days are probably numbered, it's the reasonably healthy unisured senior whose illneses may last for years and years that will put the real burden on you. Last I checked this was a free country and I'm saddened as we send our troops into harms way and for what? Your undestanding of marijuana is below rudimentary. Before you judge others perhaps you should take a look in your own medicine cabinet and ask your self why you take those drugs.Is any drug in your medicine cabinet a life and death matter or do most of those drugs just make you feel better? It's sounds to me like you have fallen for all of the hysterical hype about refer madness that made it illegal in the first place. I speak experience and you seem to speak from ignorance. If you ask I'll be happy to provdide you with complete info on how William Randolph Hearst and the Dupont family conspired to make marijuana illegal. It had to with the wonderful hemp fibers that threatened their lumber and paper businesses. It had absolutley NOTHING TO DO with any minor narcotic effect of marijuana.It had to do with profits. Welcome to Amerika.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Mar 27, 2008, at 12:27 PM

Lots of bad, false information was out and around on a former school related member who is running for the School Board. Many people never heard the true story. At least when he is elected he will not sit on the Board like a bump on a log and believe everything he is told. He is an intelligent man who will be able to understand and respond to what is presented to the Board and ask questions just not agree with everything presented to the Board.

-- Posted by Cat Lover on Thu, Mar 27, 2008, at 11:53 AM

This is in regards to the ceremony that is going to be held at the Armory on Saturday April 5, 2008 for the National Guard soldiers that are going to be deployed to Kosovo. Does anyone know if the town is going to be doing anything special for them besides just the ceremony? Also, will the Democrat News be there taking pictures and covering a story on them? The ceremony that was held last weekend at the Hearnes Center in Columbia was fantastic. Just to be in attendance was amazing and to see everyone who showed up to support them. It was disappointing to see that the Democrat News did not cover anything on it. Looking forward to seeing everyone there to support our troops!!!!!!!!!!

-- Posted by lovingmarshall on Thu, Mar 27, 2008, at 10:56 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
We'll be there.

I have been reading the news articles about the Missouri National Guard. I am just wondering when will something ever be written about Active Duty soldiers that are from the Saline County area? Even though I am in Iraq right now, and when not deployed I am stationed in Germany, I still count Slater as my home.

-- Posted by Missing home on Thu, Mar 27, 2008, at 4:02 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
We'd love to write more stories about soldiers from the area, wherever they are serving. We don't know who they are, however, unless someone tells us! If you'd be willing to talk on the phone or by email with a reporter, write to marshalleditor@socket.net or call 660-886-2233 and let me know.

Same goes for families of those who are deployed. Their stories are important and should be told.

Will the Democrat News be running stories on the candidates before the forum next Monday? It would be nice to know some information about them before then. Also, voters should ask themselves these questions:

1. Do any of these candidates have a personal agenda? School board members should be concerned about all students, not just a select few.

2. Are any of these candidates former school district employees who had problems while employed with MPS and have an "ax to grind"?

If in doubt, ask a school district employee. You might be enlightened.

-- Posted by oneofmany on Thu, Mar 27, 2008, at 12:30 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
I'm afraid we've run out of time to get candidate profiles done before the forum. My fault entirely, and I'm sorry about it. But the forum and the story the next day will be an opportunity for people to get to know the candidates.

Kathy, in reference to Priest's in a box/mall/online check:

Church Central home - christian church web site with news

"Confessions of a Pastor," Craig Groeschel (Multnomah, September 2006) ... into a sports car that zipped into the parking space he had eyed at the mall. ...

churchcentral.com/nw/s/template/Article.html/id/24474/printable/yes

Forgive us, father; we'd rather go online - CNN.com

... staff makeshift confessionals in malls with rotating priests, the ... Roman Catholic Church officially opposes online confessions, the Archdiocese of ...

cnn.com/2008/LIVING/wayoflife/03/13/online.confessions/index.html?

StreamingFaith.com - Announcement: Online Confessions Now Good For The Soul

... create and staff makeshift confessions in retail malls with a rotation of priests. ... confessions don't go directly to God through a priest or a church doesn't ...

streamingfaith.com/community/announcements/announcement.aspx?...

A Comeback for Confession - TIME

... a perfunctory exercise about church rules instead of Christ's teachings. ... and some priests are even hearing confessions in venues likes shopping malls. ...

www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,917...

MALL

(PDF)

... can stop by the mall's. newest store and go to confession. ... the church has," said Bishop Donald Trautman. "We traditionally have had confessions Saturday ...

www.eriercd.org/pdf/FL210.pdf - 1197k - View as html

Occidental Orthodox Church of the Augsburg Confession - Homepage

... faithful to Holy Scripture and the Confessions of Christ's church. ... space is a viable option as found in strip malls, shopping centers, and the like. ...

lutheransonline.com/servlet/lo_ProcServ/dbpage=cge&gid=200535077059... - 41k - Cached

xxxchurch.com/blog_post.php?b=confessions&p=64 - 43k - Cached

#

Montrose School

... from the Capuchin order now hear confessions at a mall in Colorado Springs. ... Vatican will go to revive confession -- the church has taken a hard stance ...

www.montroseschool.org/parentreading1.ht... - 18k - Cached

-- Posted by John Q. on Thu, Mar 27, 2008, at 12:03 AM

More on Ethanol

http://news.mongabay.com/2008/0310-ethan...

-- Posted by The Conservative on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 10:07 PM

WOW, This blog has gotten down right mean in the last week. Everyone take a nice chill pill, go out and have a nice steak dinner and then come back to RUMBLE..... :)

-- Posted by The Conservative on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 9:17 PM

It had been wonderful without JJ. But now the moronic slashing of others ideas can continue.

-- Posted by get a clue on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 8:32 PM

I am very dissapointed with the county commission, it appears they have done very little since they have been in office to start a savings program for the repair of the court house, it appears all they can think of is higher taxes, we pay enough taxes now, they should be there to serve the people not to want to raise taxes all the time. they have poor planning it seems. they should have done more sooner, raising taxes on tax burdened citizens is not the answer, its tough just making a living and paying bills without more taxes. WAKE UP COMMISSIONERS, if people would speak up, they will tell you enough is enough. NO to more taxes.

-- Posted by saline on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 7:11 PM

The School Board Forum is next Monday, March 31st at 7:00 in the MHS Little Theater. After reading previous discussions here, I would encourage all of you to go to the forum. It's a great way to learn a little about the candidates, and also have the chance to ask some questions. We need to be an informed public for the upcoming election, not just vote with the intent of replacing other members. Let's make sure those we elect can do the job they are elected to do!

-- Posted by outsidelookin'in on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 12:04 PM

It hasn't been the same without JJ. There's actually been discussion that made sense, was interesting, and anyone could follow.

-- Posted by outsidelookin'in on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 11:54 AM

Welcome back JJ. It hasn't been the same without you.

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 11:02 AM

Everybody needs to just STFU already and wait patiently for the end.

-- Posted by Eff Ess on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 8:02 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Enough with the probably-profane initials, please. Some people think they are funny, but some people are genuinely offended and, considering their feelings on the subject have been announced, this is clearly a case of taking a jab at them.

"Priest in a box"

Sounds like a more convenient way for them to meet little boys and the church to turn the other cheek...oops, I mean ignore it.

-- Posted by Cheese on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 7:46 AM

Democrat News,

thanks for your coverage of the Veterans.

-- Posted by saline on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 7:31 AM

So far, a google search on this topic has led me to only two places where "mall confessionals" are located - one in Colorado, which has been in place since about 2001, and another in Warsaw, Poland. Does anyone know of any others?

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 6:26 AM

I regards to the priest in the box confessionals at shopping malls, I would have to say that I feel sorry for the priest.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 6:20 AM

A priest can hear anyone's confession at any time, so why not at a mall? This particular rite of the Catholic Church does not require the participants to be in a church to be valid.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 5:53 AM

What do you think about the new priest in the box confessionals popping up all around the country and in the shopping malls?

-- Posted by John Q. on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 2:23 AM

Hey Eric, how about an editorial on religion. Any point will do. Something must be done to stir reader's passions! Everyone is entirely too passive. Seriously I think this is a wonderful outlet for people to air frustrations. When it is done here every body gets to blow off a little pent up steam. If it was done face to face we would all kill each other. Now what would God think of that? Oops, we have already done that. Sorry God.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Mar 25, 2008, at 11:59 PM

OBTW, DAgates is right. We need JJ. WTF JJ? Where are you?

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Tue, Mar 25, 2008, at 11:32 PM

p.s. ....i'm not even sure if half of you get on here and actually look at what is in the newspaper. that's all I have to say about that.

-- Posted by AnnaBell on Tue, Mar 25, 2008, at 10:50 PM

It's good to know that people are more interested in talking about the bible than about going out and supporting the students who are doing a little part in helping the homeless and less fortunate. Once again the people in this town have shown their true colors. Marshall sure knows how to make those who don't have much feel good.. but it's ok... we are spending all of our free time talking about screen names on the internet and quoting the bible. geezzzzz grow up. for once think about someone other than the person you are trying to defend yourself to ONLINE and do something that the other half of this town has done...... get a freaking life.

-- Posted by AnnaBell on Tue, Mar 25, 2008, at 10:48 PM

Holy moly, I went to sleep for a while only to awake to see the blog site has gone completely south. Crap let me wake up split persona,JJ, and see if he can lighten the mood with some of his comical satire. JJ wake the hell up before we have a religious war breakout!!!

-- Posted by DAgates on Tue, Mar 25, 2008, at 10:12 PM

Since my screen name is what sent you off the deep end, maybe I'll go one further and expand on it. Maybe from now on I will refer to myself as...

"what the f...... is up with Jesus4life?"

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Mar 25, 2008, at 9:09 PM

Are suggesting that I am a eunuch or are you proposing to make me one, assuming of course that I am a man?

Jesus4life are you theatening me?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Mar 25, 2008, at 9:06 PM

Read and adjust my behavior accordingly?

Perhaps you could be a bit more specific as to what you mean by that.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Mar 25, 2008, at 9:01 PM

sorry eric. my bad. let me repost it.

Deuteronomy 23:1

"No one who is emasculated by crushing or cutting may enter the assembly of the LORD."

"What the f", read and adjust your behavior accordingly.

-- Posted by jesus4life on Tue, Mar 25, 2008, at 8:20 PM

I am going to start a new subject.... The students at Missouri Valley College and their Homeless project... It is a WONDERFUL thing that they are doing. I was out there today for about an hour and to look at the way that they built their "homes" was amazing. There was one house that had several rooms to it. If you get the chance to go by there you should. It is a really great thing to take in and while you are there you should bring out some food donations also. They have a shopping cart out there that has food in it already but I am sure that they would appreciate some more.

-- Posted by AnnaBell on Tue, Mar 25, 2008, at 7:19 PM

oh wow now we're editing out bible verses...this paper really is truly lost...jesus said i am the truth and the light but if people want to live in darkness, there's nothing you can do

-- Posted by jesus4life on Tue, Mar 25, 2008, at 6:27 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Nope. We're editing out an offensive term that was included in the same post as the Bible verse.

The Army Corps of Engineers is going ahead with the "spring rise" on the Missouri River, starting at midnight tonight, in spite of all the objections heaped upon them by Missouri officials -- this year and ever since the program began.

The "pulse" (as the Corps refers to it) sounds like an horrible, insane idea when described by the governor or attorney general or agriculture director, like they think the Corps is trying to drown farmers to save fish.

The same thing sounds like a routine little tweak when described by Corps officials, sort of like nudging your home's thermostat up 2 degrees (not enough to burn the place down, usually).

It's such a wild discrepancy in world views that I don't know quite what to think of it, myself. I do think people who live near a river have an understandably violent reaction to the very *idea* of an artificial flood, no matter how small. They know well what can happen when the river roars out of its bankds, and for humans to fiddle with such an incredible power must really seem insane. And the engineers, who I trust have complete faith in their own knowledge and skill, do not see the danger. Engineers are always fiddling with powerful forces. It's what they do.

I always wonder if Corps officials have ever sat at the same table with Missouri officials and tried to reconcile this vast chasm?

What do you all think about the "pulse"?

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Tue, Mar 25, 2008, at 6:24 PM

By the way, I'm surprised you didn't "bleep" out the word "emasculated."

Or do you know to what it refers?

-- Posted by "When the Music Plays..." on Tue, Mar 25, 2008, at 5:57 PM

So, Mr./Ms. 4life, how do you think the others at your church would feel about what you are saying? I make the point of not hiding behind a username to say any fool thing. None of my comments have contained anything I would not say to someone in person.

Think about that.

You make it sound like this church of your's has adopted the "Jesus loves you, now go away" mentality. I hope that isn't true.

But if it is the case, I'd rather find a church with REAL religion on its side.

And since we're quoting scripture: James 1:27: "Pure religion, and undefiled, is to help the widow and the orphaned child."

-- Posted by "When the Music Plays..." on Tue, Mar 25, 2008, at 5:55 PM

Well, I'm not going to say all the effects of religion on the world are good. That would be going against my own remarks.

But as to radicals of any faith, it's the people (or rather, from what I can deduce, it is the people) and not the religion itself to blame.

There are Muslims out there who are some of the nicest people you'd want to know, just as devout to their beliefs, but not following some crazy jihad leader.

And to kaynmo or LOL or whatever your name is, you'd be surprised at how many scientist are coming to the conclusion that there had to be a higher intelligence behind the formation of this world.

-- Posted by "When the Music Plays..." on Tue, Mar 25, 2008, at 4:05 PM

When the music plays said:

"Then again, WTF, saying religion has gotten the world nowhere is as contradictory to evidence and saying the holocaust never happened."

That's fine as it is your opinion. My opinion differs greatly. I see the great deal of trouble that it cause in the world from radical islam to it's effects on our own politcal system right here in our country. BTW I believe the holocoust happened. I just don't believe that any thing said in any religious doctrine really has much merit. While the human players were probably very real, I suspect the rest is no more probable than a Harry Potter novel. But that really doesn't matter either. If someone truly wants freedom of religion the they should be prepared to offer freedom from religion in kind.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Mar 25, 2008, at 3:06 PM

OK, I see what you mean.

Just because "What the F..." or "WTF" COULD mean one thing, doesn't mean it COULDN'T mean something else.

Everyone has the right to defend themselves, it's true.

But grouping all religious people across the globe into one category formed from a few experiences isn't my idea of being fair and accepting.

It's PEOPLE who get irate and obnoxious; not what they say they stand for. "Hate the game, not the player" doesn't apply here.

Jesus4life, that reference to the passage in 2 Kings had no point in being brought up. The difference between you and Elisha is that you are apparently a servant of God, not a prophet of God.

Then again, WTF, saying religion has gotten the world nowhere is as contradictory to evidence and saying the holocaust never happened.

-- Posted by "When the Music Plays..." on Tue, Mar 25, 2008, at 2:50 PM

While I don't particularly care for WTF's screenname (nor do I think it's very inviting to intellectually stimulating dialogue) I do respect his/her freedom of speech to use it. Just as I respect Jesus4Life's right to use his or her screenname. The Bill of Rights protects freedom of religion, while also protecting freedom of speech. To criticize one while hiding behind the other is hypocrisy. If you don't like it, don't read it. It's that simple.

-- Posted by Browneyedgirl13 on Tue, Mar 25, 2008, at 2:41 PM

Let me bring everyone up to speed. Here is the post:

To whomever it may concern:

Not only do i find "what the f....."'s screenname objectionable, the reference by Kathy Fairchild to this person as "WTF" is very objectionable. This is a slang term that people use online as an acronym to say bad words. Please remove this nametag and stop referencing it. It is offensive to me.

-- Posted by jesus4life on Mon, Mar 24, 2008, at 1:01 PM

Notice the screen name of the poster. When I defended my screen name and supposed that maybe thier screen name could be viewed by some as offensive, I was accused of attacking thier religion. And here we are. I was not attacking anyone's religion. I was saving that for right now.

Here's the bottom line people: How do those of faith in this country or the world for that matter ever exepct the human race to move forward? We hear about Islamic terrorist, the boogey man du jour, yet while less perverted in methodology, the Christian right is every bit as rigid and inflexible. If you are not willing to take a good look at your yourselves and the rabidity of your own faith, then how can you expect those of other faiths to be any less less rabid about thiers? I think it is safe to say that religion of any stripe has caused just as many problems as it has solved yet not a single religion can prove a single claim they make. No matter, we'll still scold,chastise,judge,shun and perhaps even kill in the name of a loving god. Not so fast Christianity, your hands aren't exactly clean either.

The affliction only perpetuates itself. Anyone who has read all the posts would know that I was condemned to hell for what one person described as an "offensive" screen name and when I defended myself suddenly thier religion was under attack. That happens to be an excellent example of my earlier point about the rabidity of faith.

I say to you sir or madam, if heaven is full of people like you .......then what's the payoff?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Mar 25, 2008, at 1:54 PM

Marshall once had a speedway...

www.sportsmansspeedwaymarshall.com

-- Posted by Sportsmans Speedway Marshall on Tue, Mar 25, 2008, at 1:29 PM

Javelin has a good point (sorry, the pun was intended), has it gotten so dull around here we're resorting to this nonsensical debate on slinging mud at mud-slingers?

I realize there were SOME points made, but can you guess what they were buried under?

-- Posted by "When the Music Plays..." on Tue, Mar 25, 2008, at 1:29 PM

With all that is going on in the world today, not to mention locally, can it be that the best debate that can be had here involves the names some of us use when posting? Reminds of rocking a chair. It gives you something to do, but gets you nowhere!

-- Posted by OldOwl on Tue, Mar 25, 2008, at 12:56 PM

Crump, apparently you mistook what I stated. I was not stating that there was one group that was more likely than the other to sling insults. That is not even close to my point and to assume that is true is quit frankly ludicrous.

My point was, those of us that are not "religous" always seem to be on the defensive to the onslaught of the "good people" in the world. Mud is thrown back sometimes only when one gets constantly hit with mud and told what their screen names should and should not be.

I understand it is your job to play nice and take the middle ground, but some of us do not have to ignore the obvious.

-- Posted by Cheese on Tue, Mar 25, 2008, at 11:47 AM

The natural reaction to sling mud or return the insult comes from "religous" people constantly coming off with the classic "holier than thou attidude."

One of the big problems with religion today, too many of it's followers do not want to let others live and let live. They must always be telling us what is offensive, wrong and putting us on the fast track to hell.

What makes Jesus4life think he or she knows what God finds offensive? Maybe God finds Jesus4life offensive?

Point is, if you don't know then don't be telling others what they should and should not be doing in regards to God and/or whatever one chooses to worship. Oh I am sure Jesus4life would tell you that they know what God thinks, which is exactly my point.

Insults and mudslinging are only to keep the "good people" from knocking down the door, handing out pamphlets and telling me what I should think.

-- Posted by Cheese on Tue, Mar 25, 2008, at 10:44 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
I haven't detected any ideological pattern regarding who is more likely to sling insults, right, left, religious or secular. Have you done a study of comments posted here? Or conversations generally in the world? Either way, I wonder if you have any evidence to back your claim. If it's just an impression or personal bias, that's fine. Just wanted to be clear on which it is.

What fun would life be without so many people flinging insults so often at so many other people. I suppose it can't be helped, now and then, but it sure is an unfortunate reflex to have.

I suspect insulters neglect to think how it makes *them* look (it's tough to sling mud without getting a little on ya).

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Tue, Mar 25, 2008, at 10:12 AM

What fun would life be without the Jesus freaks shoving their beliefs down everyone's throat. Then, complain and whine because everyone does not believe as they believe.

I prefer George Carlin's 11th commandment.

"Thou shall keep thy religion to themselves! Amen."

Consider this...maybe God is laughing at WTF? He or She also created humor you know.

-- Posted by Cheese on Tue, Mar 25, 2008, at 9:53 AM

WTF?

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Tue, Mar 25, 2008, at 9:36 AM

You are the victim though you cast the first stone?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Mar 25, 2008, at 9:15 AM

I would like to refer everyone to 2 Kings, Chapter 2 verses 23-24, because I think it has special relevance to the attacks i am suffering because of my religion:

"Then he went up from there to Bethel; and as he was going up the road, some youths came from the city and mocked him, and said to him, "Go up, you baldhead! Go up, you baldhead!" So he turned around and looked at them, and pronounced a curse on them in the name of the LORD. And two female bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the youths."

Look out for bears, unbelievers. They are soulless killing machines that serve the LORD. God bless you all.

-- Posted by jesus4life on Tue, Mar 25, 2008, at 8:44 AM

I understand you didn't bring it up. I have said all I am going to say about that issue. I also feel that it is time to move on, well and I have no more good advice. I guess I have used all my brain for today, dang and it's still early. Oh well have a good day!

-- Posted by cjay on Tue, Mar 25, 2008, at 7:25 AM

Cjay,

Once again I couldn't agree more. Keep in mind that I didn't bring it up and hope that we'll all move on to more important issues.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Mar 25, 2008, at 7:16 AM

wtf,

I am all for everyone being able to defend ones self. I will defend myself in most situations. Just consider one saying that I am sure everyone has heard. When arguing with an idiot, sometimes it becomes difficult to tell who the idiot is (or something like that). I am not calling anyone an idiot. I am all for the freedom to speak your mind and state your opinion or even be offended by whatever may offend you. Maybe stubborn person will be more appropriate in this situation!

I just feel it is a petty thing to argue about ones screen name in these times. There is a war, economy, an election and flooding just to mention a few better things to argue/discuss.

-- Posted by cjay on Tue, Mar 25, 2008, at 6:19 AM

I couldn't agree more cjay, but I will defend myself.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Mar 25, 2008, at 6:10 AM

To all bickering about screen names,

In life there are certain battles we should fight. Chose those battles wisely or you may drive yourself crazy fighting meaningless battles. A screen name is just a screen name. If it offends you then try to avoid looking at it. When I read a blog I often don't read a screen name unless I am responding to that specific person. I am sure everyone has more important issues to discuss on here other than whose screen name offends who. This is just one mans opinion, but as every woman I have ever dated has told me, "your opinion doesn't matter". So I will go now. Have a nice day every body!

-- Posted by cjay on Tue, Mar 25, 2008, at 1:47 AM

Superwiner,

If I told you it was inadvertant would you believe me?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Mar 24, 2008, at 10:21 PM

Gosh....how is that you can capitilize satan but and not Jesus...that is blasphemous!!

"Some may consider that hijacking jesus name for a screen name offensive. You said that only a Satan worshiper could be offended by that."

How's that sarcasm...better?

-- Posted by Superwiner on Mon, Mar 24, 2008, at 10:18 PM

While we're on the topic of discussing things that Marshall needs, I would like to say that I love the "Welcome to Marshall" sign on 65 Hwy. However, it would be nice to see a Marshall High School flag and a Missouri Valley College flag flying along with the two American flags. We have two educational campuses in this town that bring in lots of visitors every year. Why not showcase these two attributes of the community?

-- Posted by Oldblackcat on Mon, Mar 24, 2008, at 9:53 PM

Ok superwiner and anyone else perhaps we can clear this whole thing up and move on.

A) I was asked to brush up on my definition of Blasphemy. I know full well the definition

but I'll post it for the benefit of others:

blas·phe·my [ blásfəmee ] (plural blas·phe·mies)

noun

Definition:

1. disrespect for religion: disrespect for God or sacred things

2. something showing disrespect for religion: something done or said that shows disrespect for God or sacred things.

Some may consider that hijacking jesus name for a screen name offensive. You said that only a Satan worshiper could be offended by that. It's so nice for you to speak for everyone else.

B) I would invite superwiner to do the same and brush up on the definition of sarcasm.

C) As stated before there is nothing in my screen name that is by definition profane. Nowhere do I ever use the "F" word. Could it possibly be your depraved imagination that is filling in the blanks? In your last post you wrote "I would say that the word "F#@$" would be the most "obscene language" word in the English language."

If my screen name is so offensive in print then how can you justify writing that on this blog? Should I call for your post to be removed? Don't worry I have no desire to do that.

D) I have been using that screen name since the first day this board was launched. I will not be bullied by someone elses hysterics.Ok? Let's put this thing to bed and move on. Have a nice day.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Mar 24, 2008, at 9:44 PM

Great comeback...now you have really instilled legitimacy to your posts. We do live in the bible belt right. Forget about my previous post the path you're headed you won't get to see the Pearly Gates much less go through them! If you don't get the picture that there are young adults (maybe even some children) mothers, sister's grandmother's that come to this site and see your "What the f…." posts and would take offense then you were raised without any manners. Seriously God Bless You.

-- Posted by Superwiner on Mon, Mar 24, 2008, at 9:36 PM

Superwiner,

Your screen name seems to fit you perfectly, Kudos to you. Maybe I am a Satan worshiper, Is that not allowed in America?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Mar 24, 2008, at 8:50 PM

I wasn't thinking of a clothing store or even a shoe store, per se. Just as someone else said earlier, I buy my clothes (and my children's clothes) second hand -- at local stores or at garage sales. The clothes are just as good and a whole lot cheaper!

Someone else said something about just having a wider selection. That's what I mean too. More options. With the new convention center, surely Marshall can do something like what Arrow Rock has done -- make a destination, something to do when visitors are not at a meeting (or the theatre). Even Blackwater has a bit of a draw in their downtown area.

All I'm saying is that there needs to be some unifying vision and goals about what we want to accomplish in Marshall and then pursue those goals. To just sit by and let it happen without direction (or even worse, nothing happens at all) is not a good idea.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Mon, Mar 24, 2008, at 8:15 PM

ob·scene /əbˈsin/ --adjective

1. offensive to morality or decency; indecent; depraved: obscene language.

2. causing uncontrolled sexual desire.

3. abominable; disgusting; repulsive.

[Origin: 1585--95; < L obscénus, obscaenus]

--Related forms

ob·scene·ly, adverb

ob·scene·ness, noun

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)

Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.

I would say that the word "F#@$" would be the most "obscene language" word in the English language.

"Perhaps I went on to say "Please remove this nametag and stop referencing it. It(Jesus) is offensive to me"

I would say that would be fine...let me know how that goes when you reach the Pearly Gates. Don't think anyone else other than a satanic worshipper would agree with you though that the word "Jesus" would be obscene.

I guess my point is that if there is going to be a post at the top of the blog site that outlines rules of the blog site then the rules should be followed, if not then remove the rules.

You might also want to brush up on your definition of blasphemy.

-- Posted by Superwiner on Mon, Mar 24, 2008, at 8:06 PM

All this flap about my screen name and people

still wonder why I chose it. What if I decided to find Jesus objectionable

especially when used as a lowly screen name?

Blasphemy!

Perhaps I went on to say "Please remove this nametag and stop referencing it. It(Jesus) is offensive to me"

A religious zealot's hysterical reaction to something as benign as a screen name. A screen name that some may find provactive but is not profane. Your condemnation is not without appreciation as I could not have asked for a better example of why I chose it in the first place. Let it go.

I will not change it.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Mar 24, 2008, at 7:45 PM

Jesus4life, I understand the meaning of your name clearly and am standing right next to you. The only one you have to explain yourself to is the good Lord Jesus and God. The funny thing is that some of the post here are from the same people that are probably sitting right next to you in church. As far as the "What the F..." name I am unclear on what the post at the very top above the blog site means??

"The Marshall Democrat-News welcomes views or questions on any issue. We hope you'll express yourself freely and responsibly. We reserve the right to exclude entries that we deem DISRESPECTFUL, threatening, OBSCENE or in other ways OBJECTIONABLE."

In my humble opinion I would say that the use of profanity definitely falls into this realm. (think I may have been guilty of posting a few obscenities in some previous post myself, won't happen again!)

-- Posted by Superwiner on Mon, Mar 24, 2008, at 6:32 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
I would just like to note that "What the f..." isn't literally a profanity. It's close. We all know what it commonly refers to. But the ellipses leave it to the reader to supply the rest, so basically if a profanity occurs it's a collaborative act. Clever.

Some folks like to dance on the edge, of course. See how close they can get without falling off. Quite a thrill.

As much as I would love to see a clothing store in this town it's not going to be anything cheap by any means. Yes I am one of those people who shop out of town every chance I can and spend the extra money for those "name brand" clothes. I do not think we need to get another restaurant in this town..We have so many already and yes most of them serve the same thing, yes most of them aren't a sit down place, yes a couple of them are mainly used for bars but the fact is that we had a nice sit down place to eat. Golden Coral... and in the same building we have had a couple Chinese places come and go also. I am not quite sure a Sears would work here very well and neither would a JC Penny's, since we already had one and it didn't work due to the space it was placed in being too small to put everything that people wanted in it. Although all of the ideas that I have seen would be great ones you have to think about what would actually work in this community and not one that is twice the size of Marshall

-- Posted by AnnaBell on Mon, Mar 24, 2008, at 6:07 PM

i chose this screenname because that is how i try to live my life...for jesus, for (4) my entire life. i'm not trying to shove my beliefs in anyone's face (even though they are what this country is founded on), i just dont want to have to get on marshallnews.com and see "what the f" all over the place. i dont appreciate the "f word", and i dont appreciate what it stands for. i am genuinely shocked by the outpouring of hatred against me, and i suggest you all go to church, because my god is a forgiving and loving god and he wouldnt want you guys to say these things, especially about abortion. may god bless and keep all of you.

-- Posted by jesus4life on Mon, Mar 24, 2008, at 5:53 PM

It's actually just one word SUPERWINER Whiner is intentionally mispelled. You know like would you like any crackers with your wine, whiner.

Gee let's get to it..how many times do you have to get duped before you quit buying from Walmart? Sounds like you have bought more than three is that right?

As far as quality "crap" my kids outgrow their clothes in about 6 months. Second of all, I just go to garage sales and pick up jackets/coats and all other clothing for .50, name brand by the way.

As far as quality some of us are forced monetarily to shop at Walmart (or garage sales) and can't afford to shop at your places of choosing (actually neither can you or you would drive the 30 minutes to Sedalia, to JC Penny or any of the other plethra of clothing stores that provide your quality expensive clothing, instead of whining about your zippers). By the way those zippers can be resewn on and replaced completely for about 2 buckeroos,lol, go to the back of Walmart where the sewing section is and pick one up and sew it on yourself, you can sew right?

Well regardless you have made the top ten on my Superwiner list. Congrats

-- Posted by Superwiner on Mon, Mar 24, 2008, at 5:07 PM

This issue has come up once before, and I'm not surprised to see it come up again.

On one hand, it's important that quite a wide portion of the community feel comfortable reading and posting comments here. If screen names are offensive, that's a problem.

At the same time, we can very quickly get into a situation where concern about offending someone, anyone has the same effect, paralyzing the conversation.

I'd like to encourage everyone who has a screen name they consider daring and provocative to rethink whether it's the best way to represent themselves.

I would also like to encourage those who find some names offensive to consider looking the other way. As has already been noted, what one person finds offensive, another person doesn't, and so on, endlessly.

Finally, I would suggest that if anyone feels the need to object to another's name, please do so courteously. Human nature being what it is, a caustic complaint is *less* likely to gain cooperation than a courteous request.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Mon, Mar 24, 2008, at 4:48 PM

On the subject of restaurants in Marshall I believe we need a go in, sit down, varied-menu restaurant, either a chain like Country Kitchen, or Perkins, or even a buffet restaurant like Ryans, or a hometown, locally-started similar restaurant. This is where everyone says, "Well, we have Bloomfields" and that is good, but what competition does Bloomfield's have? Pioneer Café is only open until 2:00 p.m. They used to be open later, and I believe the should stay open until at least 7:00 p.m. on Friday and Saturdays. If you want to go out to eat on a Friday or Saturday night you can go to Bloomfields, that's it! I guess there is also (Cr)Applebees, but up until recently you could not even get a baked potato and a salad with your steak there. I have to admit they have gotten better since they've recently changed their menu, but you still can't go there and get a good breaded tenderloin sandwich, hot beef sandwich, chicken fried steak with mashed potatoes and country gravy and other Midwestern comfort foods. Unless you want specialized food like Mexican (Los Tres Amigos is pretty good) or there are several options in town for Chinese food, your choices are an expensive sub-sandwich, pizza or a burger! There is Bogeys and Hustlers but like with Applebees a lot of people don't want to take their children into an establishment that serves alcohol and has the bar right there in the restaurant. Oh, and why can't we get a Taco Johns back in this town? Everyone I talk to loved Taco Johns. Most people I know try to stop in Odessa or Blue Springs when passing through those towns to either eat at their Taco Johns restaurant or bring home a sack full of super burritos, taco bravos, potato oles, and other goodies home!

-- Posted by Typesetter on Mon, Mar 24, 2008, at 4:42 PM

You all have way too much time on your hands to be sitting around picking out things to talk about such as username's on an open forum.

-- Posted by onpoint on Mon, Mar 24, 2008, at 3:51 PM

Just one more thing jesus4u,

Your brand of hysteria and hypocracy is exacly why I chose that screen name in the first place. When someone like you makes an irrational comment like that then I just have to say..

"what the f....?"

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Mar 24, 2008, at 3:07 PM

Ok jesus4life,

Mine screen name is what it is. I can't help where your mind goes when you read it.

Perhaps I'll change my screen name to "Pro-choice" How's that? Is that more or less offensive to you? You chastise me for an offensive screen name while invoking Jesus's name in yours. I would argue that to alot of people your screen name is far more offenive than mine. Perhaps you should just be honest and change your name simply to "the hypocrite"

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Mar 24, 2008, at 2:56 PM

jesus4life - Using the initials you don't like instead of the screen name you don't like was my way of being a little less offensive. In the interest of fairness, however, it should be pointed out that there are undoubtedly some who find your screen name unacceptable, too, especially in this context.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Mon, Mar 24, 2008, at 1:38 PM

What about a new movie theater or getting the already established/built amphitheater at the fairgrounds going.

I mean really how often are you going to buy a big purchase like a riding lawn mower from Sears (every 10 years). JC Penny just left our fair community not to recently. Those businesses are not wanted in our community except by the few. If they were wanted the citizens would have supported them by spending their money at the establishments instead of going and buying a riding lawn mower for $2000.00 cheaper at Wal-mart or a zippered jacket that you can replace for $20.00.

-- Posted by Superwiner on Mon, Mar 24, 2008, at 1:28 PM

To whomever it may concern:

Not only do i find "what the f....."'s screenname objectionable, the reference by Kathy Fairchild to this person as "WTF" is very objectionable. This is a slang term that people use online as an acronym to say bad words. Please remove this nametag and stop referencing it. It is offensive to me.

-- Posted by jesus4life on Mon, Mar 24, 2008, at 1:01 PM

The "Love/Hate" relationship with Wal-Mart continues in Marshall. I can remember the days when we could not get a Wal-Mart store quick enough for most folks. When we did, and Sedalia got a "Super Center," everyone in Marshall was hoping for the day we got our own "Super Center. Now we have it and in the process have lost several home town stores. They will never come back. Remember the days when we had grocery stores in each part of town? I agree that Wal-Mart seems to sell everything chinese, but what are people doing about it...other than spending their money at Wal-Mart? Be careful what you ask for!

-- Posted by OldOwl on Mon, Mar 24, 2008, at 12:53 PM

WTF - We try to shop locally as much as we can, too, but it isn't always easy. Smaller businesses cannot take advantage of the economies of scale that make prices at national retailers lower. On the other hand, local stores often make it up in superior service. On another blog, I've collected several suggestions from people for new businesses in Marshall, including a bridal shop, bookstore, children's clothing store and bakery. I'd be delighted to see any of those opened by a local owner. Unfortunately, I don't have any big bucks to hand out to get them started.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Mon, Mar 24, 2008, at 9:27 AM

I agree Kathy,

I was just pointing out the the Sedalia Sears doesn't seem much bigger then what we had in the past. That being said, I'm for anything that Wal-mart doesn't have a hand in. I shop orschelins when I can and Wal-mart when I have to.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Mar 24, 2008, at 8:43 AM

What the f... - Yes, that's correct. The Sedalia Sears store is a small one and a Marshall store would be similar. I'm not promoting one store as the "savior," only pointing out that there is room for more in Marshall than currently exists. The number of people complaining about the current lack of options is an indication that more is needed. What that will be or should be is anyone's guess, but it's a *start.*

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Mon, Mar 24, 2008, at 7:05 AM

The Sedalia Sears is a small location in a strip mall with some appliances/lawn mowers and hand tools.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Mar 24, 2008, at 6:18 AM

Oklahoma Reader - With all due respect, that "delightful" couple of hours on the road to Kansas City is becoming more expensive every day and a good deal less than delightful in the heavy traffic on I-70. The problem is that there is so little in the way of retail here that out-of-town trips for some things are no longer optional, but necessary. As to the oft-mentioned issue of the need for restaurants, The Pear Tree is located in the tiny, out-of-the-way town of Bevier, with a population of less than 800 - if it can be done there, why not here? Small towns everywhere are enjoying a resurgence, lifted by the desire of many to live in smaller towns instead of overcrowded, too-busy cities, but that shift requires more services, more retail and less need to drive long distances. Sitting as it does in the middle of Saline County, Marshall is ideally situated to be the pivot point of more economic activity than currently exists and, I believe, can take that position and build on it with the right mix of businesses.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Mon, Mar 24, 2008, at 6:17 AM

In response of "What the f...'s" comment - the Sears facility would not be just a catalog/pickup operation. According to what The Democrat-News was told last fall, it would be similar in size and scale to the store in Sedalia.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Mon, Mar 24, 2008, at 5:49 AM

I am wondering as to whether or not the populace's mobility, habits,and traditions (in consort) inhibit the establishment and success of new service enterprises in Marshall. I am also wondering just what is that you want. From what I have read on this blog there appears to be a vague desire for "something", but no expressed specific need.

Concerning my first query I mean that access to about anything that you may desire is a one hour trip east, or west on I-70. A trip of an hour or shortly over that can be a delightful trip, alone or with friends, ending in a cornucopia of products. In fact it is a tradition, and with some a habit to do just that. For example, the prom is coming up and I would be willing to bet that most of the young ladies planning for that event either are going to, or would prefer the opportunity to shop for their dress in Kansas City. Even if there is a nice selection in Marshall they would still prefer the trip. Kansas City is the Fairy Godmother for smalltown prom bound girls. I have heard residents of Marshall grouse that there is not a really fine restaurant there. Supposing that there was one, how many would really prefer to dress for dinner, prepare to spend an unusual sum of money, and then drive eight blocks to a place that you pass every day to have dinner surrounded by people you see every day. It may be that the gild would soon be off the lily no matter how fine the restaurant.

What I suspect may be occuring is an expression of disquietude on the part of residents. A vague sense of lack, of hungering for more, the Achilles heel of small towns, that monster monotony. After all the fact is every thing you need, that you must have, is there, including some wonderful things that the cities do not have. Enjoy them. Frankly I miss them.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Mar 23, 2008, at 10:59 PM

Sears would be great but it needs to be more than just a showroom / catalog order facility. It needs to be large enough to acutally stock a wide range of items.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Mar 23, 2008, at 10:33 PM

Yes, it's true that Sears has been here before and failed; however, the business model being pursued this time is different, requiring less cash investment by the person owning the business, just for starters. If Sears didn't think they could make money here, they wouldn't be looking to put a store in Marshall. What didn't work 10 or so years ago might work today - they must think it's worth another shot, and I hope they're right.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sun, Mar 23, 2008, at 7:42 PM

But if business follows money, then my statement makes sense. We already have enough pharmacies and the money would be less for a new one. What we need is something that isn't available in Marshall or something that isn't already an established service.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Sun, Mar 23, 2008, at 4:49 PM

I'm glad this subject keeps coming up, because economic development is a mighty complex thing, tricky to do right, hard to make work at all. Although it's not possible (nor advisable) to micromanage business too much, it is worth talking about what businesses we'd like to see in town and why.

I suppose we just need to keep in mind that we aren't likely to get exactly what we want, but the conversation is still important because if no one knows what the community wants, we'll get -- whatever.

Also good to keep in mind that business doesn't follow romantic notions of community self-image. Business follows the money. Whether we like it or not, for better *and* for worse, that's the way it is. To expect otherwise (and I'm not saying anyone here is; mostly just thinking aloud here, reminding myself) would be like expecting mothers to abandon their babies. It happens, rarely and with tragic results, but it goes against the way most mothers are built.

The conversation is valuable, but of course, how we spend our money speaks louder yet.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Sun, Mar 23, 2008, at 12:39 PM

Hasn't Sears already been in Marshall? Tried and failed if I remember correctly.

What would be nice would be some good entertainment business. What about a new movie theater so we don't have to drive 30 miles to Sedalia to watch a movie. Yes I understand our wanting to hang onto the past thats why we are in the same school buildings from the early 1900s. The theater isn't even handicap accessible.

What about the fairgrounds and the amphitheater. That was a great idea. I would love to have popular singers/bands coming to Marshall. Why didn't that work out? Everything is still there why can't we make that work?

No I don't need a new pharmacy, only get sick once a year anyway, think the ones we have are enough. No new fast food restaurants either.

-- Posted by Superwiner on Sun, Mar 23, 2008, at 7:51 AM

BD - I have mixed feelings on this subject. Glad to see more development here, but as you point out, another pharmacy may not be the thing we need the most. Sears has been looking for an investor in Marshall for several years - we did a story on it last fall - and still no takers. It's a great opportunity, and the investment required is not completely out of range. Maybe someone will take that on.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Sat, Mar 22, 2008, at 10:00 PM

I'm interested in the report that a pharmacy-type retail business is considering locating in Marshall. Does anyone else think this is comparable to Marshall having four Chinese restaurants? Why do we need another pharmacy? How about getting some other type of retail in town -- filling a need rather than duplicating services?

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Sat, Mar 22, 2008, at 6:24 PM

"Wisdom doesn't automatically come with old age. Nothing does -- except wrinkles. It's true some wines improve with age. But only if the grapes were good in the first place." Abigail Van Buren, advice columnist

"The best things in life aren't things." Art Buchwald, columnist

"Every winner has scars." Herbert Casson, journalist

I wish everyone and their family a Good Friday and great Easter!

-- Posted by Billfromraytown on Fri, Mar 21, 2008, at 12:33 PM

"The answer, as far as the United States is concerned, is 1979 ..."

That's true, but of course pinning down when a conflict starts is tricky business. When did the U.S. Civil War start? 1861? 1854? 1850? or all of the above? Probably all of the above.

When did the conflict in the Middle East start? Which starting point you use probably depends on what point you hope to make. If you want to make sure the blame lands on Iran, 1979 will do. If you want to expose the U.S. role in fanning the flames, 1953 would work.

That's when the CIA engineered the overthrow of Iran's democratically elected leader who had just ticked off the British by nationalizing the oil industry. The British, knowing our government's weakness, whispered the word "commies" into key ears in the administration and that was about all it took.

We did the dirty work for British Petroleum.

So if you ever wonder why Iranians in the late 70s were mad at the U.S., remember that we gave them the violently repressive Shah Rezi Pahlavi, and then supported the guy for the duration, until they gave him the old heave ho after 25 years of misery.

Was the coup a good idea? A just cause? Well, the BP executives thought so. The British government thought so. Eisenhower and Dulles were convinced (Harry Truman had turned down a chance to pitch in on behalf of BP).

I think it's safe to say the Iranian people didn't much like the result.

There's always more to every story. Even this one.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Fri, Mar 21, 2008, at 7:05 AM

Oh yes, another after thought before I go to bed. I feel like Columbo in pajamas. I think the people from New Orleans want to go home. I think the people of Iraq want to go home. I think our heroes in Iraq want to go home. I think the people of Darfur want to go home. Mr. President, won't you please help somebody go home?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Fri, Mar 21, 2008, at 12:46 AM

What is winning? Did we win the Iraq war by overcoming the military forces of a much smaller country in a few weeks? Did we become the winner by disbanding the army of Iraq? Did we become the winner by dissolving the government of Iraq? Did we become the winner when George W. Bush said that our mission was accomplished? Did we become the winner when we set up a provisional government in Iraq dominated by Shiites? Gee I'm confused. Have not we done enough winning? I think the world is tired of all this winning that we have done. I am sure the majority of the Iraqis also are tired of it. So I join them in asking, can we go home now?

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Thu, Mar 20, 2008, at 11:55 PM

Conservative,

Well that's beautiful narrative indeed. First of all we now that retired General didn't write it. Secondly what does invading Iraq have to do with the war in terrorism other than creating more so we can feel justified by our actions. It's a catch 22. Five years and a trillon dollars later (btw the way if you were to stack one trillion dollar bills it would circle the globe 2 3/4 times at the equator. )what have we got? Bin Laden? No. Diminished respect in the world?Yes. No doubt terrorism is a threat to everyone in this world not just us. It should be fought with intelligence and prudence, not the belligerence that we have shown for the past 8 years. These may seem harsh words but they are said out of love for my country, not blind faith of it's leaders.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Mar 20, 2008, at 10:49 PM

According to reliable sources, this piece was not written by the person named. Although Dr. Chong is a real person, he has said it was forwarded to him by someone else, and all he did was forward it to a friend. It was written by an unnamed attorney to his sons, and additional paragraphs not written by the attorney have been added. I'm not attacking the piece - only its provenance.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Thu, Mar 20, 2008, at 9:11 PM

An Articulate Piece written on the War we are Fighting

The writer of this narrative is Dr. Vernon Chong, Major General, USAF, Retired.

"For what it's worth ...

This is the most cogent and powerful essay on the threat of Islamic terrorism I have ever read. Dr. Vernon Chong is, without a doubt, the most articulate and convincing writer I have read regarding the War in Iraq . If you have any doubts, please open your mind to his essay and give it a fair evaluation. It's also eerily applicable to other current issues, such as Iran 's nuclear program, immigration, NAFTA's impact on American jobs, trade deficits, etc. I had no idea who Dr. Chong is, or the source of these thoughts, so when I received them, I almost deleted them, as well-written as they are. But then I did a Google search on the Doctor and found him to be a retired Air Force surgeon and past commander of Wilford Hall Medical Center in San Antonio ."

Dr. Vernon Chong, Major General, USAF, Retired

To get out of a difficulty, one usually must go through it. Our country is now facing the most serious threat to its existence, as we know it, that we have faced in your lifetime and mine (which includes WWII).

The deadly seriousness is greatly compounded by the fact that there are very few of us who think we can possibly lose this war and even fewer who realize what losing really means.

First, let's examine a few basics:

1 When did the threat to us start?

Many will say September 11, 2001. The answer, as far as the United States is concerned, is 1979, 22 years prior to September 2001, with the following attacks on us:

* Iran Embassy Hostages, 1979;

* Beirut, Lebanon Embassy 1983;

* Beirut, Lebanon Marine Barracks 1983;

* Lockerbie, Scotland Pan-Am flight to New York 1988;

* First New York World Trade Center attack 1993;

* Dhahran , Saudi Arabia Khobar Towers Military complex 1996;

* Nairobi , Kenya US Embassy 1998;

* Dares Salaam , Tanzania US Embassy 1998;

* Aden , Yemen USS Cole 2000;

* New York World Trade Center 2001;

* Pentagon 2001.

(Note: during the period from 1981 to 2001 there were 7,581 terrorist attacks worldwide.)

2 Why were we attacked?

Envy of our position, our success, and our freedoms. The attacks happened during the administrations of Presidents Carter, Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton and Bush 2. We cannot fault either the Republicans or Democrats, as there were no provocations by any of the presidents or their immediate predecessor, President Ford.

3 Who were the attackers?

In each case, the attacks on the US were carried out by Muslims.

4 What is the Muslim population of the World?

25%.

5 Isn't the Muslim Religion peaceful?

Hopefully, but that is really not material. There is no doubt that the predominately Christian population of Germany was peaceful, but under the dictatorial leadership of Hitler (who was also Christian), that made no difference. You either went along with the administration or you were eliminated. There were 5 to 6 million Christians killed by the Nazis for political reasons (including

7,000 Polish priests).

(seehttp://www.Nazis.testimony.co.uk/7-a.htm

Thus, almost the same number of Christians were killed by the Nazis as the six million holocaust Jews who were killed by them, and we seldom hear of anything other than the Jewish atrocities. Although Hitler kept the world focused on the Jews, he had no hesitancy in killing anyone who got in the way of his extermination of the Jews or of taking over the world - German, Christian, or any others.

Same with the Muslim terrorists. They focus the world on the US , but kill all in the way -- their own people or the Spanish, British, French or anyone else. The point here is that, just like the peaceful Germans were of no protection to anyone from the Nazis, no matter how many peaceful Muslims there may be, they are no protection for us from the terrorist Muslim leaders and what they are fanatically bent on doing -- by their own pronouncements

-- killing all of us "infidels." I don't blame the peaceful Muslims. What would you do if the choice was to remain silent or be killed?

6 So who are we at war with?

There is no way we can honestly respond that it is anyone other than the Muslim terrorists. Trying to be politically correct and avoid verbalizing this conclusion can well be fatal. There is no way to win if you don't clearly recognize and articulate who you are fighting.

So with that background, now to the two major questions:

1 Can we lose this war?

2 What does losing really mean?

If we are to win, we must clearly answer these two pivotal questions:

We can definitely lose this war and, as anomalous as it may sound, the major reason we can lose is that so many of us simply do not fathom the answer to the second question - What does losing mean?

It would appear that a great many of us think that losing the war means hanging our heads, bringing the troops home, and going on about our business, like post-Vietnam. This is as far from the truth as one can get.

What losing really means is:

We would no longer be the premier country in the world. The attacks will not subside, but, rather, will steadily increase. Remember, they want us dead, not just quiet. If they had just wanted us quiet, they would not have produced an increasing series of attacks against us over the past 18 years. The plan was, clearly, for terrorists to attack us until we were neutered and submissive to them.

We would, of course, have no future support from other nations, for fear of reprisals and for the reason that they would see; we are impotent and cannot help them.

They will pick off the other non-Muslim nations, one at a time. It will be increasingly easier for them. They already hold Spain hostage. It doesn't matter whether it was right or wrong for Spain to withdraw its troops from Iraq . Spain did it because the Muslim terrorists bombed their train and told them to withdraw the troops. Anything else they want Spain to do will be done. Spain is finished.

The next will probably be France . Our one hope with France is that they might see the light and realize that if we don't win, they are finished, too, in that they can't resist the Muslim terrorists without us. However, it may already be too late for France . France is already 20% Muslim and fading fast.

Without our support, Great Britain will go, also Recently, I read that there are more mosques in England than churches.

If we lose the war, our production, income, exports, and way of life will all vanish as we know it. After losing, who would trade or deal with us if they were threatened by the Muslims? If we can't stop the Muslim terrorists, how could anyone else?

The radical Muslims fully know what is riding on this war, and therefore are completely committed to winning, at any cost. We'd better know it, too, and be likewise committed to winning at any cost.

Why do I go on at such lengths about the results of losing? Simple. Until we recognize the costs of losing, we cannot unite and really put 100% of our thoughts and efforts into winning. And it is going to take that 100% effort to win.

So, how can we lose the war?

Again, the answer is simple. We can lose the war by "imploding." That is, defeating ourselves by refusing to recognize the enemy and their purpose and failing to dig in and lend full support to the war effort. If we are united, there is no way that we can lose. If we continue to be divided, there is no way that we can win.

Let me give you a few examples of how we simply don't comprehend the life and death seriousness of this situation:

President Bush selects Norman Mineta as Secretary of Transportation. Although all of the terrorist attacks were committed by Muslim men between 17 and 40 years of age, Secretary Mineta refuses to allow profiling. Does that sound like we are taking this thing seriously? This is war! For the duration, we are going to have to give up some of the civil rights to which we have become accustomed. We had better be prepared to lose some of our civil rights temporarily or we will most certainly lose all of them permanently

And don't worry that it is a slippery slope. We gave up plenty of civil rights during WWII, and immediately restored them after the victory ... and, in fact, added many more since that time.

Do I blame President Bush or President Clinton before him?

No, I blame us for blithely assuming we can maintain all of our Political Correctness and all of our civil rights during this conflict and have a clean, lawful, honorable war. None of those words apply to war. Get them out of your head.

Some have gone so far in their criticism of the war and/or the Administration that it almost seems they would literally like to see us lose.

I think some actually do. I hasten to add that this isn't because they are disloyal. It is because they just don't recognize what losing means. Nevertheless, that conduct gives the impression to the enemy that we are divided and weakening. It concerns our friends and it does great damage to our cause.

Of more recent vintage, the uproar fueled by the politicians and media regarding the treatment of some prisoners of war perhaps exemplifies best what I am saying. We have recently had an issue involving the treatment of a few Muslim prisoners of war, by a small group of our military police.. These are the type prisoners who just a few months ago were throwing their own people off buildings, cutting off their hands, cutting out their tongues, and otherwise murdering their own just for disagreeing with Saddam Hussein.

And, just a few years ago, these same type prisoners chemically killed 400,000 of their own people for the same reason. They are also the same type of enemy fighters who recently were burning Americans and dragging their charred corpses through the streets of Iraq And, still more recently, the same type of enemy that was and is providing videos to all news sources internationally of the beheading of American prisoners they held.

Compare this with some of our press and politicians, who for several days have thought and talked about nothing else but the "humiliating" of some Muslim prisoners -- not burning them, not dragging their charred corpses through the streets, not beheading them, but "humiliating" them.

Can they be for real?

The politicians and pundits have even talked of impeachment of the Secretary of Defense. If this doesn't show the complete lack of comprehension and understanding of the seriousness of the enemy we are fighting, the life and death struggle we are in, and the disastrous results of losing this war, nothing can.

To bring our country to a virtual political standstill over this prisoner issue makes us look like Nero playing his fiddle as Rome burned -- totally oblivious to what is going on in the real world. Neither we, nor any other country, can survive this internal strife. Again, I say, this does not mean that some of our politicians or media people are disloyal. It simply means that they are absolutely oblivious to the magnitude of the situation we are in and into which the Muslim terrorists have been pushing us for many years.

These people are a serious and dangerous liability to the war effort. We must take note of who they are and get them out of office. Remember, the Muslim terrorists stated goal is to kill all infidels. That translates into ALL non-Muslims -- not just in the United States , but throughout the world. We are the last bastion of defense.

We have been criticized for many years as being 'arrogant.' That charge is valid. We are arrogant in that we believe that we are so good, powerful, and smart that we can win the hearts and minds of all those who attack us, and that, with both hands tied behind our back, we can defeat anything bad in the world. We can't!

If we don't recognize this, our nation, as we know it, will not survive, and no other free country in the world will survive if we are defeated.

And, finally, name any Muslim countries throughout the world that allow freedom of speech, freedom of thought, freedom of religion, freedom of the press, equal rights for anyone -- let alone everyone, equal status or any status for women, or that have been productive in one single way that contributes to the good of the world.

This has been a long way of saying that we must be united on this war or we will be equated in the history books to the self- inflicted fall of the Roman Empire . If, that is, the Muslim leaders will allow history books to be written or read.

If we don't win this war right now, keep a close eye on how the Muslims take over France in the next 5 years or less. They will continue to increase the Muslim population of France and continue to encroach, little by little, on the established French traditions.

The French will be fighting among themselves over what should or should not be done, which will continue to weaken them and keep them from any united resolve. Doesn't that sound eerily familiar?

Democracies don't have their freedoms taken away from them by some external military force. Instead, they give their freedoms away, politically correct piece by politically correct piece.

And they are giving those freedoms away to those who have shown, worldwide, that they abhor freedom and will not apply it to you or even to themselves, once they are in power.

Muslims have universally shown that when they have taken over, they then start brutally killing each other over who the few will be controlling the masses.

What is happening in Iraq is a good example. Will we ever stop hearing from the politically correct about the "peaceful Muslims?"

I close on a hopeful note by repeating what I said before: If we are united, there is no way that we can lose. I hope now, after the election, the factions in our country will begin to focus on the critical situation we are in, and will unite to save our country. It is your future we are talking about Do whatever you can to preserve it. I reiterate: our national election is under way.

After reading the above, we all must do this, not only for ourselves, but for our children, our grandchildren, our country, and our world. Whether Democrat or Republican, conservative or liberal ... and that includes the Politicians and media of our country and the free world.

.

-- Posted by The Conservative on Thu, Mar 20, 2008, at 7:09 PM

Quote of the day:

"Once a nation hasn't told the truth, it requires a lot of work to convince people that they'll be telling the truth in the future."

-- George W. Bush

www.voanews.com/english/2008-03-19-voa75...

Hmm. A very good point.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Thu, Mar 20, 2008, at 3:22 PM

The DNC caused the current problems in Florida and Michigan, but wants someone else to figure out how to solve the problem it created. The DNC created the problem, let them solve it and solve it soon! The failure to do will only work to the detriment of the party in November. The candidates will not get it worked out between them and the continued fighting on the matter is just giving McCain more ammunition and is taking attention away from the real issues. Like "Iran training Al-Quida in Iraq." Sorry, Sen. Lieberman just corrected that on my behalf to "Iran is training extremists in Iraq." Could'nt resist!!!

-- Posted by OldOwl on Thu, Mar 20, 2008, at 12:31 PM

Ok Reader,

You are right. Too many people refuse to think the the U.S. made a mistake. I love my country but we are far from perfect. We also need to be realistic about why we were attacked on 9/11. What has come out of this war?

Obscene profits for corporations. Period

Our troops deserve better. They deserve a real leader, not this comic book cowboy we are saddled with now.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Mar 20, 2008, at 6:41 AM

An after thought before I go to bed and try to sleep on this sorrowful night. Some who read the comments I made a few minutes ago will react with anger and disdain. The thought that will cross their minds may run something like "thats not true, there are not one hundred thousand unofficially wounded soldiers". Well think about it. Every soldier who shot women and children in that hell hole is a wounded soldier. Every soldier who had his dead buddie's blood and guts splattered on him is a wounded soldier. Every soldier who came home and can not escape the daily replay in his or her mind of events so horrible that we civilians can not even imagine them is a wounded soldier.

Did the phrase a million dead Iraquis cause not even a blink of your eye? Then think of it this way. Imagine one hundred children collapsed in the street with their arms torn off, or blinded with blood all over them. Imagine mothers screaming in the street as they gather the bodies of their dead children. Imagine a father whose only son was just blown to bits before his eyes. Do you now get the point? This happens every day in Iraq. We opened the lid on Pandora's box. Yet these few simple words may well be expunged from this paper because it is too graphic, and after all we must protect our children. How ironic. Sleep tight.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Mar 19, 2008, at 11:46 PM

Five years. FIVE YEARS! No one from Iraq involved on 9-11. No weapons of mass destruction. No Al Quaeda in Iraq until after we started the war. The world screams in disdain WE TOLD YOU SO. Four thousand of our soldiers dead. Thirty thousand of our soldiers officially wounded. One hundred thousand of our soldiers unofficially wounded. As many as a million innocents dead in Iraq. Two to four million forced from their homes in Iraq. The infrastructure destroyed in Iraq. No electricity much of the time in Iraq. Few hospitals, few doctors. No end in sight. The Bush Administration did this in God's name? How horrid that they have no shame.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Wed, Mar 19, 2008, at 11:02 PM

Does the MDN plan to put anything in the newspaper about a couple of Saline County troops that came home from Iraq on the 11th? Welcome Home Joey Perry and Kelly Johnson!!!

-- Posted by aen2012 on Wed, Mar 19, 2008, at 3:01 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
We do. We're shorthanded right now and couldn't send a reporter, but thanks to Charlie Guthrie and two Slater students -- Amelia Fizer and Anthony Navarrete -- we'll have photos and a story in tomorrow or Friday.

I seem to recall from my high school days that the Constitution gave Congress the direct jurisdiction over DC. Congress is considered to be the "supreme authority" over DC. DC has an "at-large" representative in Congress, but that rep has no vote. DC is treated just like American Samoa, Puerta Rico and Guam.

-- Posted by OldOwl on Wed, Mar 19, 2008, at 1:50 PM

If I lived in the District of Columbia, I might question the right of the Supreme Court to decide this issue in the first place. DC residents do not have voting representatives in the House and the Senate. Doesn't seem quite fair, does it?

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Mar 19, 2008, at 10:14 AM

March 19 is the fifth anniversary of the invasion of Iraq. A just cause or a crime against humanity? At the beginning, most people believed it was the former. Now, more and more people have concluded it's the latter. Or at least that it was an incompetently managed more-or-less just cause. The more interesting question, rather than whether it should have started is, How can it end? Is Iraq another Japan or Germany, destined to be a U.S. military outpost for the next century? Or is it possible to turn the country back over to its people?

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Wed, Mar 19, 2008, at 7:59 AM

Nearly a lifetime ago when I attended good old Marshall High,there were enough guns in the trunks of cars parked in the school parking lot to start a small war. That was during hunting season. We would go to the Missouri River or where ever before the crack of dawn to hunt. We would then race back to school with no time available to take the guns home before getting to class. That was then, this is now. Customs, and yes, laws change with changing circumstances. It is necessary. Fortunately Marshall will not likely ever experience the squalor and violence of our urban ghettoes teeming with the unfortunate underclass. It is not because of Marshall that restrictions concerning firearms must be considered. It is for those places.

Washington D.C., the locale of the law now being considered before our Supreme Court is "those places". They have perhaps the most restrictive gun law in our nation. It was enacted out of desperation because innocent people caught up in the crossfire were being slaughtered in the streets, and because the police were out gunned by the gangs, as well as several other related reasons. It is a local law to deal with a local problem. Generally speaking local laws work best. Federal laws are often a bad fit in many locales. It is a core conservative principle that state's rights prevail over all federal rights not stated in our founding documents. Purportedly we have a conservative Supreme Court. It will be interesting to see if they hew with principle in mind concerning the instant case, or are swayed by other influences.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Mar 18, 2008, at 11:29 PM

I'm no fan of the NRA -- I don't think we have a right to own assault rifles or bazookas, necessarily (like free speech, the right to bear arms comes with limits and responsibilities) -- but I can't imagine how a gun *ban* could possibly be constitutional.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Tue, Mar 18, 2008, at 9:17 PM

A few more FACTS about why gun control is good for everyone. And the United Nations wants this for us all!! NEVER!!!

Turkey established gun control in 1911. From 1915 through 1917, 1.5 MILLION Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

The Soviet Union established gun control in 1929. From 1929 through 1953, 20 MILLION political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Germany established gun control in 1938. From 1939 through 1945, 13 MILLION Jews, Gypsies, HOMOSEXUALS, the mentally ill, and other "mongrolized" people, were rounded up and exterminated.

China established gun control in 1935. From 1949 through ???, 20 MILLION political dissidents and others, unable to defend themselves, have been rounded up and exterminated.

Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 through 1977, 1 MILLION "educated people", unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 through 1981, 100,000 native Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 through 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

The United States started establishing gun control in 1934...........NAW!..........I won't even! But you THINK about it a little, OK??

***************************************

-- Posted by The Conservative on Tue, Mar 18, 2008, at 8:52 PM

Here is what our founding fathers thought about the right to bear arms:

No Freeman shall ever be disbarred from the use of arms. Arms in the hands of citizens may be used at individual discretion in private self-defense, John Adams.

The Constitution preserves the advantage of being armed with Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, where the Government are afraid to trust their people with arms, James Madison.

Arms discourage and keep the invader and the plunderer in awe and preserve order in the world as well as property. Horrid mischief would ensue if the law-abiding were deprived the use of private arms, Thomas Payne.

Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined, nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants. They serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides from an unarmed man, may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man, Thomas Jefferson.

The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms, Samuel Adams.

I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them, George Mason.

To be prepared for war is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace. A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined. George Washington

-- Posted by The Conservative on Tue, Mar 18, 2008, at 8:40 PM

Nomad is definitely right. Obama should absolutely drop out of the GOP race. I didn't even know he was in it.

The DEMOCRATIC race, on the other hand. He should ride that one out...

-- Posted by VOICE OF TREASON on Tue, Mar 18, 2008, at 3:54 PM

"Crackers gnawing on cigar butts"?

I'm a cracker and I'm offended by people "gnawing on cigar butts".

People need to relax. Just because this guy is Obama's "spiritual advisor' then it's entirely possible they only agree on "spiritual issues" Think about alot of the crap you hear from the likes of Pat Robertson and the late Jerry Fallwell. Wheres the outrage for that?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Tue, Mar 18, 2008, at 2:20 PM

I just got off the phone with Sheriff Wally George a few minutes ago. He said a judge has now been assigned to Jerry George's case. The judge is Michael Midyett, associate circuit judge in Chariton County. I didn't have time to ask about what happens next. Guess the ball is in the judge's "court."

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Tue, Mar 18, 2008, at 2:15 PM

Since we're still on the subject of our nation's politicians, I would like to say, I am disgusted and distraut about the comments made by Mr. Obama's "spiritual advisor". I have attended many Houses of the LORD and have never wittnessed a follower and teacher of GOD's words make such outlandish remarks. White church or color church or hispanic church, NEVER!

When a teacher of the Bible puts down other churches for their beliefs- I do not return to that church. I do NOT believe Mr. Obama has NEVER heard these racial teachings before. Nor, in my lifetime have I ever heard of a potential president produce a book and speak of another race in a degrading mannor. I do not have the name of Mr. Obama's book in front of me but using the term "Craker's nawing on their cigar butts"..... is very racial. I believe it is time for Mr. Obama to pull out of the GOP race and revisit himself. You can not truely make change if there is no change within.

-- Posted by nomad on Tue, Mar 18, 2008, at 12:57 PM

Correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to recall that when the Revolutionary War was fought, our side fought with their own personal weapons against a tyranical government. In other words, our government did not issue arms to our soldiers. Had that been the case, the Union Jack might still be flying over our country!

-- Posted by OldOwl on Tue, Mar 18, 2008, at 12:53 PM

One more thought before I hit the sack. If you are sick of Bush and what he has done to our country, find out how often your United States Representative, and your Senators have voted in favor of what Bush wanted. If it is a high percentage, throw them out. You can Google voting records in Congress easy enough. Heck, maybe a reader with more internet savvy than this old codger will even enter a message with a click on that will take you to the voting records. Do not, Do not, support someone because they are a nice fella, or say in campaign slogans what you want to hear. Simply find out how they truly vote. Anyone who has supported Bush down the line, including John McClain has had a hand in ruining our country, They have failed. It is time for change. Folks, we are in a recession (a euphemism for depression), jobs are being lost,our stewardship of this good earth has been shameful, we are in two wars which will go on forever unless drastic change occurs, China owns us. Hopefully it is not to late. Time's a wastin, do it now, for the little children even if you don't care enough to do it for yourself.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Mar 18, 2008, at 1:15 AM

I am sick of people flailing the "Democratic Congress".What we have is a Senate with slightly more Democrats than Republicans. Every time the Democrats in the Senate try to do something good for our country and its people it is vetoed by Bush. Then his robotic Republican supporters in the Senate vote to sustain his veto. There are not enough Democrats to override the veto. If we want action and change in Congress we must elect more Democratic Senators so that the incompetent Bush can no longer control what is done. Fed up with an inept congress that thwarts stem cell research, real response to global warming, ending the Iraq war, and a myriad of other issues that drive us nuts? Then throw the rascal Republicans out of office. Let them talk about their narrowly fixated social issues in their living rooms, and on Fox News. America is in a mess. Elect Democrats, lets go to work on our problems.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Mar 18, 2008, at 12:37 AM

I am sick of people flailing the "Democratic Congress".What we have is a Senate with slightly more Democrats than Republicans. Every time the Democrats in the Senate try to do something good for our country and its people it is vetoed by Bush. Then his robotic Republican supporters in the Senate vote to sustain his veto. There are not enough Democrats to override the veto. If we want action and change in Congress we must elect more Democratic Senators so that the incompetent Bush can no longer control what is done. Fed up with an inept congress that thwarts stem cell research, real response to global warming, ending the Iraq war, and a myriad of other issues that drive us nuts? Then throw the rascal Republicans out of office. Let them talk about their narrowly fixated social issues in their living rooms, and on Fox News. America is in a mess. Elect Democrats, lets go to work on our problems.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Mar 18, 2008, at 12:37 AM

To "The Conservative"

Thank you for disagreeing with me in this forum. It makes the dinner table a lot more pleasant. This is America and you can believe whatever you like, quote all the articles you want to that are purposely slanted toward the Republican, Pro-War, point of view, but you will not change my opinion. In my opinion Bush has done nothing positive for this country!! I know you think a Democrat will raise taxes, blah, blah, blah. Say what you want, but this Country was in much better shape when President Clinton was in office. I don't care what he did in his private life, he was a good President. I believe he actually cared about the typical American family. Unlike Mr. Bush whose list of priorities seem to include war, oil, and making life easier for big business and rich people. I believe Mr. Bush purposely tried to create a diversion from the real problems of this Country(that, by the way, he had a big hand in creating) such as war, gas prices, the economy, by trying to make an issue of gay marriage. This is a non-issue compared to these other important issues. Does he think the American people are so dim we couldn't see past this diversion? Additionally, you quoted some information on Hillary Clinton and her campaign. I don't know if you've read a newspaper, watched a news program (that is not Republican slanted) or have been awake lately but Hillary Clinton is not the only Democratic Candidate running for President! Personally, as long the candidate is competent and a Democrat I don't care if they are a woman, man, black, white, or purple, they get my vote! Like I said I can hardly wait for election day. You can vote for your Republican candidate if you want. I will vote Democrat and we can just cancel out each other's vote. However, my opinion is that one way or the other this Country needs change and it needs it ASAP!!

-- Posted by Typesetter on Mon, Mar 17, 2008, at 3:06 PM

I wholeheartedly agree that George W. Bush has been a huge disappointment and failure! However, there is much more blame to be shared. Where has Congress been the last few years? In 2006, the Democrats promised that if elected, they would end the war in Iraq. That they would "correct" the economy. That they would bring gas prices down. That they would fight Bush at every turn. Where has Congress been since the Fall of 2006 (Dems and Rep.s alike)? To be very honest, there are very few people in Washington I trust and I am growing to distrust them more with each passing day. For the most part, our elected officials are not in DC to watch over our best interests. They are there to line their own pockets and to get re-elected. We believe their promises and give them our votes. We then act surprised when their promises ring hollow. Senators McCain, Clinton and Obama are being paid to serve as senators from their respective states. How many days of work have they put in over the last 18 months to represent the people of Arizona, New York and Illinois? How many senate votes have they missed while on the campaign trail? What a mess!!!

-- Posted by OldOwl on Mon, Mar 17, 2008, at 9:55 AM

The conservative.

No, you are wrong. Bush is a horrible president and quite possibly a war criminal.He and his cronies should be held accountable under the fullest extent of the law. Of course we know that will never happen.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sun, Mar 16, 2008, at 10:35 PM

As the agriculture reporter for The Democrat-News and a family farmer, I feel I would be remiss in my duties to not reply to "The Conservative."

Food vs. fuel: The great debate, but many falsehoods have been printed. The truth is that the price of corn has a small impact on food prices. After all, farmers only get 19 cents per dollar spent on the items you buy at the grocery story.

So if it isn't ethanol, then why are food prices rising? Simple: Energy prices. "Energy is required to produce, process, package and ship each food item. While it may be more sensational to lay the blame for rising food costs on corn prices, the facts don't support that conclusion. By a factor of two to one, energy prices are the chief factor determining what American families pay at the grocery story," according to John Urbanchuk of LECG, LLC.

In fact, a Consumer Federation of America report criticized the oil industry for failing to use ethanol as a way to increase supplies of refined gasoline. The study notes that the use of ethanol could actually help reduce food price increases. "Higher energy prices cause higher food prices," says CFA director of research Marc Cooper.

On a local note, last fall, ethanol was selling from Mid-Missouri Energy in Malta Bend for less than a $1 a gallon. Ryland Utlaut, director of MME's board, stated at the time they couldn't the product into the market - even at low prices. Now, the ethanol prices have rebounded some, because as he said, they finally realized what a bargain ethanol was. Note: the "subsidy" of ethanol that people talk about goes straight to the blender, who puts the 10 percent ethanol in the gasoline. Without it, ethanol producers wouldn't be able to get in the market at all, instead MTBE and other oil-based additives would be used. Big oil doesn't want to lose even 10 percent of their profit.

Also when I went around to local gasoline stations to ask about the Missouri 10 percent ethanol mandate, a local gas station owner told me that adding the 10 percent ethanol actually lowered the price of a gallon of gas.

I'm not sure where The Conservatives' ethanol figures came from, but here are the facts.

For every 100 units of energy used to make ethanol, 167 units of energy are created in the form of ethanol. This includes the energy it takes to plant, grow and harvest the corn.

And now, one bushel of corn yields 2.8 gallons of ethanol, up significantly from just a few years ago (and bound to go up and up.) The Conservative talks about 100 percent ethanol, but I need to note that so far no U.S. cars are manufactured to run on pure ethanol. (Indy racecars do, though.) But using the same figures, I came up with 304 bushels of corn to power that car. The average Missouri farmer yields over 130 bushels of corn per acre, which means it would take only a little more than 2 acres to power that car for a year. (Not 11 acres). In a good year, and with increasing technology it is more likely less than 1.5 acres. And using the stated figures, it means the average U.S. car on ethanol would only get 11.7 miles per gallon. However, currently the Ford Taurus Flex Fuel vehicle (which uses 85 percent ethanol) gets 19.4 miles per gallon. It is true that E85 cars get a 5% to 15% drop in fuel economy. This will vary based on temperature and driving conditions. For comparison purposes, aggressive driving habits of any car can result in a 20% loss and low tire pressure can reduce mileage by 6%.

Also E-85 is much lower priced than traditional gasoline, making the loss of fuel efficiency negligible.

Also note, that with 10 percent ethanol, gas mileage is not adversely affected. Although, it isn't scientific, my car actually is getting better gas mileage with 10 percent ethanol.

I can't figure out the facts The Conservative used about 97 percent of the land covered with corn. But I do know that every year U.S. farmers have raised productivity of each acre. Last year, they again raised a record number -- over 13 billion bushels of corn.

Also think about this, I don't (nor does anyone I know) see corn ethanol as the only type of fuel needed to make us significantly less dependent on foreign oil. I believe like many people that we need many different energy sources including cellulosic ethanol, soy-diesel, hydrogen, our own crude oil sources etc...so we are never again at the mercy of countries who hate us so much.

But in the meantime, think about this: U.S. annual gasoline demand increased from 130 billion gallons in 2000 to 141 billion gallons in 2006. During the same period, U.S. ethanol production went up from 1.6 billion gallons to 4.9 million gallons. So ethanol satisfied 30 percent of the new gasoline demand.

So the real question is: How much would you pay for gasoline and food today - if it weren't for ethanol?

-- Posted by Marcia Gorrell on Sun, Mar 16, 2008, at 6:47 PM

Qoute

Supply and demand drive the cost of oil higher, but we produce very little domestic fuel. We haven't built a refinery in 29 years, adding to the woes of average consumers by creating a bottleneck in the distribution system when the lines have to be purged to add corn-based ethanol. And since ethanol is a corn product, the prices have increased for corn, making some farmers happy, but causing animal feed to rise precipitously, thanks to supply and demand.

Lack of animal feed means that everything from dairy to filet mignon is rising in cost. And with higher gas prices, transportation for all products is adding to the bottom line cost to consumers as well. So we have a situation that was pretty much created by well-meaning environmentalists using bad science and worse economics.

I have one question: When is the price going to get high enough for us to see the sense in drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, drilling off of the Florida coast and using oil shale fields in Colorado?

Or do they really think we will return to subsistence living in a hunter/gatherer culture?

Ellen Kudlicki, Carrollton

-- Posted by The Conservative on Sat, Mar 15, 2008, at 10:45 PM

I thought the Iraq war started because he had weapons of mass destruction. How many years has the war been going on....how many weapons of mass destruction have been found...a big whopping zero!! Don't buy into the Bush propaganda. Bush is an idiot and hasn't done anything worth while for this country, except help big business. Record profits for gas companies 70 billion dollars profit (that's after all the bills have been paid).

Hey I'll be spending my tax rebate on county taxes at the end of the year...or at least what I haven't spent off setting on rising Bush Gas Prices.

-- Posted by DAgates on Sat, Mar 15, 2008, at 10:04 PM

Quite interesting about the METH comments. Okay, so we are talking about addiction AND we are talking about the MANUFACTURING of the drug. Many people who make this stuff are NOT even using the stuff.I don't know if there is a "solution". Okay, about the comment about not using tax dollars to keep supporting these people while in jail...the idea of a "support system" seems great, in a "perfect" world, but we all know how that usually ends up. No matter how good the intentions may be for the users(addicts) and the people who make it for distribution. Who's going to pay for the "support system"? As long as this stuff is being made, to me, it's a losing and uphill battle. Either way...using taxpayers money to pay for them to be in jail or for a support system....it's always a waste of money. Supply and Demand is what this is all about. Good intentions and the idea to use money is a waste of time for these people. Other addictions that are not crimes...have to be changed internally by each individual, regardless if it's tobacco, being overweight, and the many other legal "addictions" people have. These people will seek out help on their own, when they are ready. NOT when they go thru the motions of some support system. I believe support systems should be for VICTIMS of crimes as rape, abused children, etc. THAT is where tax money should be vested.

-- Posted by bsc1223 on Sat, Mar 15, 2008, at 9:02 PM

Typesetter,

There are a few things in your opinion that are down right false. This is not the Presidents War. One is the president can't declare war, only congress can. Second the war with Sadam was started because he violated the UN sanctions repeatedly over the years.

This regime change was necessary because Saddam was an international outlaw. He had violated the 1991 Gulf War truce and all the arms control agreements it embodied, including UN resolutions 687 and 689, and the 15 subsequent UN resolutions designed to enforce them. The last of these, UN Security Council Resolution 1441, was itself a war ultimatum to Saddam giving him "one final opportunity" to disarm -- or else.

The ultimatum expired on December 7, 2002, and America went to war three months later Contrary to everything that Al Gore and other Democrats have said for the last four years, Saddam's violation of the arms control agreements that made up the Gulf War truce -- and not the alleged existence of Iraqi WMDs -- was the legal, moral and actual basis for sending American troops to Iraq. Al Gore and Bill Clinton had themselves called for the removal of Saddam by force when he expelled the UN weapons inspectors in 1998, a clear violation of the Gulf truce.

This was the reason Clinton and Gore sent an "Iraqi Liberation Act" to Congress that year; it is why the congressional Democrats voted in

October 2002 to authorize the president to use force to remove him; and it is the reason the entire Clinton-Gore national security team, including the Secretary of State, the Secretary of Defense and the Director of Central Intelligence, supported Bush when he sent American troops into Iraq in March 2003.

Here is another one you can not blame the President for either. The main problem with today's gas and oil prices is the lack of drilling, and refineries. Now who is the main culprit to blame here. "The American Automobile Association issued a press release questioning the federal governments policies on gasoline refining that have resulted in more than 15 different varieties of gasoline being used across the country. "While these 'boutique' fuels have helped clean the air, they also have seriously hampered the efficient production and distribution of gasoline," AAA said." Finally, because of government restrictions, oil production in the United States is in decline while demand continues to accelerate. According to the Oil and Gas Journal, U.S. proven oil reserves have declined by around 20% since 1990, with the largest single-year decline (1.6 billion barrels) occurring in 1991. Who is the blame here Whaco enviromentle groups like the Sierra club and Liberal Democrats that have not allowed any drilling for oil in decades. Plus No refineries are allowed to be built either. (Blame the right people for this).

The blame for the housing markets fall to the greedy bankers and loan companies. The floating note is a big problem, second is that they are making loans to people that can not afford them. Third is they are loaning money with people without a big enough down payment to have an investment in the properties. Most of these buyers are flippers and investment buys.

Now food, Whooo, the main problem is with ethanol. When you take the main staple corn and turn it into ethanol you raise the price of corn and take the main staple out of food . That makes it nice for the corn growers but alas the cattle growers and the chicken farmers can not afford to feed the animals (whalla, you have high meat prices.) Plus anything else made out of corn goes up as well. Now ethanol by itself is not as efficient as a fuel. You lose anywhere from 4 mile per gallon per mile. "Neither increases in government subsidies to corn-based ethanol fuel nor hikes in the price of petroleum can overcome...a fundamental input-yield problem: It takes more energy to make ethanol from grain than the combustion of ethanol produces." "The average U.S. automobile, traveling 10,000 miles a year on pure ethanol (not a gasoline-ethanol mix) would need about 852 gallons of the corn-based fuel. This would take 11 acres to grow, based on net ethanol production. This is the same amount of cropland required to feed seven Americans. If all the automobiles in the United States were fueled with 100 percent ethanol, a total of about 97 percent of U.S. land area would be needed to grow the corn feedstock. Corn would cover nearly the total land area of the United States." "Ethanol produced from corn clearly is not a renewable energy source. Its production adds to the depletion of agricultural resources and raises ethical questions at a time when food supplies must increase to meet the basic needs of the rapidly growing world population."

As Typesetter said When gas prices are reasonable, so are the prices of everything else. Then people will begin to spend their extra money again.

On your thoughts for election day, You may not want what you wish for. Democrats will raise you taxes. They will let the Bush tax cuts expire. That alone will raise the taxes for the average family with an income of $65,000 up as much as $1500 more a year. That will really take out more of your food and gas money honey.

The President says were just going through "a period of adjustment". I don't think I want to adjust to our country going to hell in a hand basket! I can hardly wait for election day!

Quote from Hillary of you are well enough off that the tax cuts may have helped you,' Sen. Clinton said. 'We're saying that for America to get back on track, we're probably going to cut that short and not give it to you. We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good.'" (Beth Fouhy, "San Francisco Rolls Out The Red Carpet For The Clintons," The Associated Press, 6/29/04)

To Date, Hillary's Campaign Proposals Would Cost Over $665.9 Billion If She Could Get Them Enacted Into Law. "Clinton's price tag is $110 billion a year, but analysts say her [health care] plan will cost a lot more than that. That alone would make your taxes go up to over $3000 a year in taxes for the same family making $65000 a year.

That's enough for now, see ya later.

The Conservative

-- Posted by The Conservative on Sat, Mar 15, 2008, at 11:41 AM

Her is where I see a problem. First off we are talking about an addiction. There needs to be a solution to this not just lock these people up for 90 days,a year, whatever.These people get out of prison with no jobs,place to live,money and they have families so they look for jobs,housing etc with no sucess and they go back to making the stuff to be able to support thereselves and there family.And here we go back to that same cycle. I think that there needs to be some kind of a support system for these addicts. Instead of using our tax dollars for them while there in prison several times for the same addiction give some support when they get out.

-- Posted by inaholeinmissouri on Sat, Mar 15, 2008, at 9:20 AM

I believe in re: to the Meth topic, I wasn't speaking of the place where meth is USED or people being NABBED for having posession of it. I, personally was speaking of the manufacturing of it.

-- Posted by bsc1223 on Sat, Mar 15, 2008, at 7:29 AM

Well, it's almost time for school board elections!!! Yeah. Out with the old and in with the new. Has anybody been paying close attention to what they've been doing lately? I'll be voting for Blakely, Stouffer,and Bell. What about the rest of you or have you forgotten? What happened to the swim coach and is the middle school really going to a half day of art?

-- Posted by Haze on Fri, Mar 14, 2008, at 11:08 PM

JJ,

Missouri *is* considered the meth capital of the nation -- and not without cause. But the statistics, looked at from another angle, show that actually California law enforcement nabs much much much more meth than gets nabbed in Missouri. So maybe we're only *one of the* meth capitalS of the nation.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Fri, Mar 14, 2008, at 7:13 PM

I know for a fact the statements I made were true Mr. Crump. I lived in close vicinity to the action and witnessed it with my own two eyes! Also, it was in the court updates in the MARSHALL DEMOCRAT NEWS.

cjay, I think that we are the limited few that can not support our words to be kept for all to see.

-- Posted by get a clue on Fri, Mar 14, 2008, at 3:24 PM

I agree with you jj! I want to say more but im kinda scared

-- Posted by granny08 on Fri, Mar 14, 2008, at 1:28 PM

Everyone needs to remember that the job of law enforcement is to investigate people suspected of committing crimes and arrest them if the investigation reveals probable cause to believe the person committed a crime. After that, the matter is up to the Prosecutor, Judge and maybe a jury. If you have complaints about how a person's criminal case is ultimately disposed of, don't direct those complaints to law enforcement. They did their part and cannot control what happens afterwards. We have great law enforcement here in Saline County! The next time you see a law enforcement officer, a sincere "thank you" would be nice. They certainly are not in it for the pay!

-- Posted by OldOwl on Fri, Mar 14, 2008, at 10:42 AM

Job well done as long as they end up in jail for a long time and not right back out on the streets doing the same thing over and over again like they have been all these years.

-- Posted by momx2 on Fri, Mar 14, 2008, at 10:14 AM

I just wanted to stop by the wall here and take my hat off to a job very well done by Sheriff Wally George and his wonderful crew of Deputies as well as the Missouri Highway Patrol! All of you outstanding people make it a joy to live in Saline County keep up the good work take the negative with a grain of salt and keep doing what your doing! Meth is an issue of concern for everyone and I'm glad our county has taking it by the horns!

-- Posted by SalineFire on Fri, Mar 14, 2008, at 8:41 AM

cjay and get a clue,

When people make claims about criminal activity and name the people involved, I delete those comments until I can verify the claims. Even if the person making the comment is certain they are right, it's worth checking to be sure.

We have had several comments of that sort posted here that turned out to be wrong.

If I check on something and find that the claims are verifiably true, I'll undelete them.

In the case of the two comments you mention, some of the people referred to have been charged and plead guilty to drug offenses, it's true.

However, in one message, a second person is implicated who has not got a record in casenet for drug crimes. In the other message, someone who has been guilty of drug offenses is accused of another crime for which there is no record of guilt that I can find.

So those messages will stay deleted.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Fri, Mar 14, 2008, at 8:11 AM

Get a Clue,

My post was also removed! I guess you can't mention certain people on this site or you get removed.

Eric,

If something is fact, it is not illegal to voice an opinion or state the fact! I have just started posting here, and I am getting the feeling that a certain few in Marshall are in charge of this. I am not talking about you or the Democrat news; I am talking about the few people outside of the paper that will not donate money or place ad's if you publish stories about them or their family. Once again what I stated in my post you removed were facts about someone who was CONVICTED of meth possession and production. He got probation and while on probation got caught with possession again and only got "30 days shock". This is fact, why delete my post. Oh yeah it was one of your boys...I forgot!

-- Posted by cjay on Fri, Mar 14, 2008, at 12:46 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Just to clarify: The Marshall Democrat-News provides this forum for the enjoyment and edification of our readers. We do our best to insure that offensive and inappropriate messages are deleted. If a message is otherwise fine but includes inappropriate references the whole message is deleted (in other words, we don't edit messages; they stay or go whole).

So far, and to my knowledge, the only people who have tried to influence what people are allowed to say are the participants of the conversation. We do hear from them, in public and in private -- as we should. I haven't heard of anyone else trying to influence what gets deleted and what doesn't.

What happened to my comment about 2 other meth heads in Marshall that seem to slid past being brought to justice?? Every one here knows this. I was stating the obvious. True facts! Isn't that considered real news?? True facts??

-- Posted by get a clue on Thu, Mar 13, 2008, at 11:01 PM

Some of you must not get the hint. This is exactly what JJ wants you to do. BEG him to start posting again. OMG! Just let it be! He hasn't posted and you all that support him are still going on. If you miss him that much, go to his blog. He posted the link for a reason. For those that like him to go there. So, do just that. Please!

-- Posted by get a clue on Thu, Mar 13, 2008, at 10:58 PM

Very well put cupcake!

-- Posted by get a clue on Thu, Mar 13, 2008, at 6:01 PM

After responding to the Poll question on today's Democrat-News website regarding gas prices this is my opinion: I'm wondering if President Bush has any idea, or even cares about the day to day struggles of the American people. His idea of making the war he started (over oil) better is by throwing more of our underpaid, under protected soldiers and more and more of our tax dollars at it, causing many grieving families and the country's deficit to skyrocket. Meanwhile the rest of the world has began to hate us! It was quietly, yet officially, announced just the other day that Sadam Husein had absolutely nothing to do Alchida! Duh! We are in a extremely expensive war in a country whose former leader had absolutely nothing to do with the September 11th attacks in this country. I'm sure most of the American people already knew that and it really didn't need to be "announced"! Gas prices are at an all time high with no end in sight. The price of a barrel of oil is hovering at $110.00 and climbing. The dollar is at is lowest point against the Japanese yen in 12 years. The housing market is in dire shape. High grocery prices and other necessities are making it hard for the average American to make ends meet. Our President thinks the answer to that is to give Americans $600.00 to boost the economy??!! I think most Americans will use that money to put gas in their vehicle to get to work, make a house payment, pay a doctor bill, purchase their prescription medications, or buy groceries. I don't believe that the average middle to lower class American will spend it on the luxury items that the President seems to think are on the top to the our list of priorities. Even though I'm sure most people will enjoy getting their check I believe he could have used that money to find a way to bring gas prices down. That is what would help the American people and stimulate the economy! When gas prices are reasonable, so are the prices of everything else. Then people will begin to spend their extra money again. Right now the average American doesn't have any "extra money". I really feel for the truck drivers out there that are trying to make a living and having to buy diesel fuel at even more outrageously high prices! Everyone wants to promote Ethanol. Believe me I would much rather support my corn farming neighbors than the rich Arab nations, but you know what it takes to make Ethanol?…Diesel Fuel! You can't run farming equipment without it! Some people are trying to decide which is a better option, continue to put $3.00 a gallon gas in their already-paid-for SUV or purchase a new vehicle in these uncertain economical times and make a payment on a new hybrid vehicle that gets better gas mileage. But our President (and our Vice-President for that matter) is a Texas oil man and he did start a needless war over oil so does anyone believe he is the least bit interested in doing something about gasoline prices! Do you think the Prez stops off at the grocery store to do the weekly shopping on his way home from the Capitol because that way he won't have to spend the extra gas to make the trip on Saturday? Plus when coming home from work he will not have little Jenna and Barbara with him so he will not have to say "no" to them when they ask for extra things at the store? Do you think Mr. Bush rides out the flu rather than go to the doctor because even though his health insurance premiums continue to go up his coverage continues to go down; and if he goes to the doctor he, Laura, Jenna and Barbara may have to eat ramen noodles and bologna sandwiches for dinner a couple of times this week because he can't afford to buy groceries and seek needed health care too? Do you think he has to decide if he is going to by his prescription medications this week or buy heating oil to keep the White House warm enough so that the pipes don't freeze? Do you believe Mrs. Bush has ever felt the pain of having to tell Jenna and Barbara that she just cannot afford to give them the few dollars to go on the class field trip with all of their classmates because there's just too much month left at the end of the money? I bet many of the average American heads of household has had to face these situations with their own families. The President says were just going through "a period of adjustment". I don't think I want to adjust to our country going to hell in a hand basket! I can hardly wait for election day!

-- Posted by Typesetter on Thu, Mar 13, 2008, at 1:23 PM

I think JJ is way over rated. He just seems like some young kid that has not found himself yet with nothing better to do with his time. If JJ would spend his time making a difference in the world and not running his mouth he might do something good with his life.

-- Posted by cup cake on Thu, Mar 13, 2008, at 1:15 PM

In my personal opinion, which for those of you who don't know what that means is my own opinion, I find JJ to be quite funny and random at most.Keep in mind I said MY personal opinion. You can just skip over my post if you choose to do so. I really do not care. JJ brings out little rays of sunshine and smiles when I check this site.

-- Posted by AnnaBell on Thu, Mar 13, 2008, at 11:08 AM

Do we have a double standard here Cat Lover? You say if we don't like what JJ has to say skip over it. Well, back at you. If you don't like what we say about JJ skip over it.

Can't understand why so many feel they need to come to the defense of JJ.

-- Posted by Muffin on Thu, Mar 13, 2008, at 9:02 AM

lets just all get along, ok? live by the golden rule, and things would be a lot better.

-- Posted by jesus4life on Thu, Mar 13, 2008, at 8:12 AM

Actually, screw the politicians. They are all out for themselves and their partisan goals. The country is in the shape it is because of politicians.

I would rather hear about fires, meth and JJ Gates!

What bleeds, leads!

-- Posted by Paulie Walnuts on Wed, Mar 12, 2008, at 11:44 PM

Has anyone else noticed a lack of election/political coverage by Saline County's 'only daily newspaper'? In the midst of an important election year we have read virtually nothing about local, county, state elections or the candidates. If I am not mistaken, the filing deadline for the August primary in about two weeks away. I have not read about any filings for county office and about as much coverage has been spent on the state level. A few weeks ago local Democrats held a 'Campaign 2008 Dinner/Dance' at the Martin Civic Center. Eight state wide office holders & candidates attended, along with U.S. Congressman Ike Skelton and over 300 citizens from throughout Missouri. Regardless of party affiliation, it seems this is a 'newsworthy' event. It was covered by Cooper County's only daily newspaper and we received numerous compliments (from the press and the public) on the Civic Center as well as the dinner. One local elected county official commented "it was the biggest political event in Saline County in years, if not ever"..and 'gave positive publicity to Marshall, Saline County and the Martin Civic Center.' This is the type of news, I would think, local subscribers would enjoy hearing/knowing about.

-- Posted by modemocrat on Wed, Mar 12, 2008, at 5:20 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
You're right. We'll try to do better.

Then check out his blog and read his comments there.

-- Posted by get a clue on Wed, Mar 12, 2008, at 1:23 AM

Leave JJ alone. If you don't like to read his stuff just skip over it. He's funny and alot of us enjoy him.

-- Posted by Cat Lover on Tue, Mar 11, 2008, at 7:27 PM

Seems like JJ monopolizes the site. I believe he had his feelings hurt earlier and stated he would go away. He's still here. What does that tell you.

-- Posted by Muffin on Tue, Mar 11, 2008, at 6:07 PM

if yall dont be nice to jj im afraid hes gonna leave...i wont have any reason to check this webisite anymore :(

-- Posted by jesus4life on Tue, Mar 11, 2008, at 4:37 PM

Here are my thoughts on the new superintendent:

1. Sound financial management is a must. Spend money where it needs to be spent;

2. TEAM WORK; (don't make it an "us v. them" situation. You are not a ruler, you are a co-worker with everyone else in the district);

3. Listen to your co-workers from top to bottom! They are the best and are hard workers when treated professionally.

4. Get into the buildings and meet your co-workers. Know their names and acknowledge them when you can! Treat them like you wish to be treated.

5. Always be guided by what is best for our children!

Do these things and you should have a job in Marshall for a long, long time!

-- Posted by OldOwl on Tue, Mar 11, 2008, at 12:00 PM

I for one am pleased to see the new superintendent join the Marshall community. Just a heads up make sure you know the policies and procedures and use them to your advantage, if you get a gut feeling something is jacked up your probally right, so please inquire and if need be change things, this community will back you, we are ready for fresh ideas and outside the box thinking. As far as working with the board, use this old saying: Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. Don't get me wrong this is a great community to live and raise your children, but you also must learn from history (recent history). Please get your adminstrators squared away because I hope you don't get a Judas in your camp. Please get our frontline workers (teachers & para's) the resources they need within reasonable means. Above all bring our administrators and teachers back to being one team, not "us vs. them" mentality that does our children a great injustice, and from a productivity view, it pretty much nullifies any. Marshall Public Schools has some class act, top notch administrators and teachers along with other support staff, now we need to start seeing and hearing that as community members and you sir have that formidable task, along with all other aspects of your new position. As far as short list for priorities, As long as you make all your decisions based on what's best for our children in this community and you can look in the mirror and know this to be true then you will have my support sir. I wish you the best of luck at your new position.

From the IZ

PS. I know JJ and his cohorts will talk trash about this but I don't care. JJ I backed you once based on freedom of speech, but lately your writing checks your arse can't cash, I withdraw my vote.

-- Posted by alphadog on Tue, Mar 11, 2008, at 4:05 AM

You know Mr. Crump, I know many of us would love to answer your question. But, what good does it do for ANY of us to give an oppinion when we are going to get shot down by JJ and his lame comments about our thoughts. I for one have a list, but I am not going to waste my time here listing it for you. I will just go to the few board members that I am close to and give them my thoughts. At least I know there I will be heard and understood.

-- Posted by get a clue on Mon, Mar 10, 2008, at 9:48 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
It does lots of good to post here. JJGates is part of the community, but his opinions should be heeded only to the degree you feel he's earned your attention and concern. In other words, no one person rules the conversation unless everyone concedes the floor to them. If you don't appreciate his sarcastic criticism, I recommend ignoring it. The more others participate, the less power any one person has to steer the conversation.

JJ, you are the one that needs to get a life. If it were not for this board, you would be a lost cause. A lonely voice all alone in your own little world.

-- Posted by get a clue on Mon, Mar 10, 2008, at 9:43 PM

I love ya BD42. We are on the same page!

-- Posted by get a clue on Mon, Mar 10, 2008, at 9:40 PM

The Marshall school district has a new superintendent. He won't be on the job for a few more months, but I'm curious what folks think should be on his short-list of priorities once he starts here.

I know the school board hopes he can help solve budget management problems.

What do you think are the top five things the district needs?

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Mon, Mar 10, 2008, at 9:17 PM

"You know, if enough of us ask (by posting), maybe we can get jjgates removed from the list. Other than that, it would help if no one responds to his idiocy.

-- Posted by BD42 on Sun, Mar 9, 2008, at 9:36 AM "

I don't have a problem with that guy posting. Anyway, maybe we should just ignore him like you did in this post of yours. So many people seem to think he is an idiot, but they can't stop talking about him. You guys are giving him too much credit. It's not like he's the greatest thing since sliced bread...or is he?

-- Posted by Eff Ess on Sun, Mar 9, 2008, at 2:37 PM

You know, if enough of us ask (by posting), maybe we can get jjgates removed from the list. Other than that, it would help if no one responds to his idiocy.

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Sun, Mar 9, 2008, at 9:36 AM

See Marshall's Racing Past

www.sportsmansspeedwaymarshall.com

-- Posted by Sportsmans Speedway Marshall on Sun, Mar 9, 2008, at 3:05 AM

In response to comments about arrest at rural Slater home of Joel Harris:

It is a terrible state of affairs that meth has taken hold of so many people. It is a good thing that our law officers have been on such alert to those making meth. But, there is a definate problem that is not being solved through the judicial system. Meth makers are getting caught (good), going to jail and out of society (good), being released and making more because they have not had their problems and addictions dealt with (BAD).

I am convinced that they are not stupid people, they surely know a lot about chemicals and how they work together. They even know how to cook it, use it, and then use regular store items to "clean" their blood before they go to their probation officers. If they spent half as much time using their brains for good things think what could happen.

I totally agree that I want those who make meth, deal drugs, and such out of society. But, the fact remains that they are here and their addictions are not being treated! The cops in this area are surely doing a good job considering how many people in this county are using, making, and getting hooked on this awful, evil drug and others everyday.

All people should pray everyday for those with addictions that they would get the treatment they need to be a productive member of society, pray for the law officers of this county, and for those family members that been affected by the addictions of their loved ones.

-- Posted by RedAngel on Sat, Mar 8, 2008, at 11:55 AM

Here you go JJgates gal662008@yahoo.com I would like to know who you are also.

-- Posted by Gal66 on Fri, Mar 7, 2008, at 8:49 AM

Hey everyone,

JJ Gates is "5'5 160lbs of fighting spirit" and she has a really lame blog!

Just another public service from me.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Mar 6, 2008, at 8:16 PM

"No matter what happens, a Democrat will be in office."

THANK GOD!! It's about time we get that idiot Bush out of office!!

And by the way, I hate to point out the obvious but didn't the terrorist hit the twin towers when a republican was president. That is the lamest mucking excuse for a terrorist attacking the U.S. that I have ever heard. The aholes didn't attack and murder because they were out for the republicans or democrats but because we are Americans. Your kind of DA rhetoric is exactly what divides this great country. Instead of fighting terrorist or any other real issues DA's like you will come up with off the wall BS like this to keep us fighting amongst ourselves and keep our country from moving forward.

-- Posted by DAgates on Wed, Mar 5, 2008, at 10:26 PM

This is a sad day for America. No matter what happens, a Democrat will be in office. Either the Dems that actually admit to being Dems, Clinton/Obama, or that Republican imposter McCain. Congratulations, American idiots, you've just handed the keys to America over to the terrorists.

-- Posted by i <3 huckabee on Wed, Mar 5, 2008, at 6:33 PM

There's no question it's a serious problem. Case in point - there used to be one, perhaps two fabric stores in Marshall. When a large retailer moved in and sold fabric by the yard, too, those businesses were unable to compete and closed. A year ago, the large retailer decided to close down their fabric business. For the moment, it appears they've changed their minds, but I would not be surprised to see it happen. If you happen to quilt or sew clothes, your nearest option will then be at least 30 miles away. And this is only one example - there are plenty of others, I'm sure.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Mar 5, 2008, at 4:11 PM

Yeah, but I make money somewhere else, and spend it here, because (pardon the polly-anna glasses) I believe this IS the best place for our children to be.

I believe as a community we can make this town work.

-- Posted by MsDe on Wed, Mar 5, 2008, at 4:11 PM

I have to work in Sedalia, but I try to spend most of my earnings here in Marshall. We moved here from Sedalia, because of the schools/environment.

My child got laid off from a good job be4 xmas, and has been hard pressed to find another 1 because there are just not that many places in Marshall for a teen (under 18) to get a job. More jobs (fast food ect.) would free up jobs for the collage students so their parents don't have to pay, or they don't have to spend grant money for gas to get to Sedalia for a job that pays

-- Posted by MsDe on Wed, Mar 5, 2008, at 3:50 PM

Do a google search on "the hometown advantage" and you'll find a wealth of information on the topic of locally-owned businesses versus national retailers. The bottom line appears to be that although national retailers may initially appear to have nothing but advantages, there are good, solid reasons for encouraging the growth of locally-owned businesses, even in very large cities (San Francisco is one example), because most of the money spent at the local retailers remains in the community. That's not to say national retailers should have no place - only that there are many excellent reasons to promote local businesses.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Mar 5, 2008, at 3:49 PM

I don't think the issue is necessisarily competitavie wages (I mean Good Grief half of Marshall works, and has worked at Con-Agra for 900 years)I think it is actully LACK of any jobs. We have lots of teens in our area, and lots more MSchoolers & elems coming up. I f can't provide jobs for them, how are they ever gonna learn good "work habits" More fast food joint, retailers ect (anything you DON't have to 18 to work at) is a good thing

-- Posted by MsDe on Wed, Mar 5, 2008, at 3:32 PM

Sorry to let you down but, I have not had a tray for quite sometime. I experienced 2 children graduate the D.A.R.E program, which- helped me realize just how stupid I was being. Thank GOD a 12 step program was not needed here. The perfect timing of D.A.R.E and our local PD doing their jobs was all I needed. I am very blessed.

I pray it would be that simple for others who have a problem with legal / illegal drugs.

-- Posted by nomad on Wed, Mar 5, 2008, at 3:30 PM

If the businesses would offer competing wages, I would work in Marshall. When a person applies for a job in Marshall and gets offered $4.00 to $7.00 less an hour for the same job description, well, it doesn't really take a rocket scientist to figure that one out. I will continue to commute to Sedalia and spend my money there.

-- Posted by niuges on Wed, Mar 5, 2008, at 3:10 PM

"Yeah maybe so huh!!"

-- Posted by tomcat53769 on Wed, Mar 5, 2008, at 1:48 PM

I hope that the board members and the mayor reads this because our town eventually will end up a town with nothing in it. They have enough fast food and retail in it for now. They need to concentrate on the needs and wants of our towns people!! I hope alot of you agree with this!

-- Posted by tomcat53769 on Wed, Mar 5, 2008, at 1:42 PM

HELP!! A bunch of hillbillys from Arkansas yelling "save Hillary" have kidnapped me. They are trying to make me disappear but, they can't read the Witches manual

-- Posted by Maynard G Krebbs on Wed, Mar 5, 2008, at 1:41 PM

I know that people have heard of a Walgreen's coming to Marshall. I think that Marshall citizen's should have the say so on factories coming to Marshall. We need to promote factory businesses here so the people of Marshall don't have to travel 30+ miles to go to work and give the towns of Sedalia and Boonville their hard earned money. Not to say paying for the High gas prices to get there. My cousin works in Boonville and she spends roughly $50 to $60 a week on gas to get back and forth to work. It's rediculous!!! The mayor and the board don't want factories here because they want this town to be for the elderly.

We'll for their information, as long as there is a college here, there is always going to be kids no matter what. I think that the people of Marshall need to put their foot down and tell these people that's running this town to get some major businesses in here. It will bring more money to the town and promote other businesses. I think we need a new mayor and board or they need to get on the ball...

-- Posted by tomcat53769 on Wed, Mar 5, 2008, at 1:34 PM

that will be the last we ever hear of Maynard.

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Wed, Mar 5, 2008, at 1:15 PM

Does anybody remember White Water or is everybody afraid to bring that up for fear that they too might disappear?

-- Posted by Maynard G Krebbs on Wed, Mar 5, 2008, at 12:19 PM

Godzillary is not completely lifeless, but doesn't have the numbers on her side. If she drops out, how much does it help the chances of Obama democrats winning the White House over McCain?

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Wed, Mar 5, 2008, at 8:13 AM

Someone sent me email wondering why people were allowed to promote their own blogs or other sites in the Speak Out forum.

I wonder what everybody thinks about that practice. Should we ban that kind of self-promotion? Why or why not?

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Wed, Mar 5, 2008, at 7:50 AM

Since we can apparently promote other sites on here.

Read The Sedalia Democrat!

www.sedaliademocrat.com

-- Posted by Paulie Walnuts on Wed, Mar 5, 2008, at 4:36 AM

And to Eff Ess - thanks for the pats on the back!

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, Mar 4, 2008, at 6:46 PM

Agent Scarn - I agree with you wholeheartedly that Marshall is a great place to live. As one who has lived in more than a few places (as a military brat), both in and out of the U.S., I feel well-qualified to say so. People have been very welcoming and I feel at home here.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, Mar 4, 2008, at 6:22 PM

"I don't think those names can be counted on to reliably indicate a person's vocation or affiliations," posted Eric Crump.

So are you telling us that Smokin' Cheetah may not actually be a cheetah? let alone a smoking cheetah? My world has just turned upside down!!

Thanks again E. Crump for setting us all straight. Your passion for your work really shines for the world to see on this website and of course in the print edition. Even though you probably get paid for doing your job, I want to say thanks anyway. Thanks for being a friend.

OBTW (that means "Oh By The Way" and is also the name of Kathy Fairchild's blog. Everybody should check it out if they haven't already), keep up the great work!! I do not take for granted that we have a great daily paper and website.

-- Posted by Eff Ess on Tue, Mar 4, 2008, at 6:00 PM

First of all, you can't give too much attention to proper grammar, especially on National Grammar Day.

I have to be honest too. If you were looking to this forum to base your deciscion for a family move, not many places would miss you. The comments on this site are no more off the wall, stupid, or smart than comments posted on any other news website. Maybe you get all your news and exclusively base your opinions from only one source. If that is the case, I don't have much for you.

However, There are plenty of reasons to decide to move to Marshall based on my opinions of the comments on this news site.

This site is worthy of winning awards. The Marshall-Democrat News is a small business and they provide news from quite an expansive area of surrounding communities.

People on this site recognize such important days such as National Grammar Day. Proper grammar is a lost art, even with me, but I don't discount its importance.

People comment on this site. That is great. People care enough about the news/community/whatever to post their comments about it. I'm impressed with a community that has the courage and initiative to express new ideas.

I could go on forever, but I won't. Have a nice day.

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Tue, Mar 4, 2008, at 5:46 PM

What a mess!!! marshall has always been full of characters but i'm thinking it is full of something else about right now!! i don't think you deserve a forum to dog and bash every little thing. serves no real purpose!!

-- Posted by marshallite on Tue, Mar 4, 2008, at 5:07 PM

I would just like to point out that people who register on this site can (and do) make up whatever they want for their usernames. I don't think those names can be counted on to reliably indicate a person's vocation or affiliations.

Please use caution when assigning responsibility for comments made here.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Tue, Mar 4, 2008, at 4:59 PM

Wow, A new low for the MDN blog. Picking on 5th graders. What's next,kicking out the walkers of our senior citizens at the nursing home?

-- Posted by niuges on Tue, Mar 4, 2008, at 4:38 PM

MHS Teacher, Don't think you would get a "vacation" as a teacher unless you are suspended for not doing your job. oops,

that is just being too negative. OH, I forgot to tell you teachers do not get vacations while school is in session. Hmmmm

-- Posted by Cat Lover on Tue, Mar 4, 2008, at 3:43 PM

MHS Teacher,

You have posted at 8:48, 10:10, 10:53,

and 11:03. Does this mean you do not teach in the mornings and put this time on your log for your career ladder hours? Hmmm in my next life I plan to be a MHS Teacher.

-- Posted by Cat Lover on Tue, Mar 4, 2008, at 12:18 PM

JJGates,

Only Mike Huckabee can reform this country into God's country. Real Christians know this to be true.

When the Mexicans are running across your border, and the homosexuals are allowed to marry, and the terrorists threaten your children, who do you want in power? That liberal Commie in sheep's clothing, otherwise known as John McCain? Not I, sir, not I.

-- Posted by i <3 huckabee on Tue, Mar 4, 2008, at 12:11 PM

I've got an idea......now that JJ has graduated to having his own blog, maybe he could start posting there along with all of his followers. Then the rest of us are not subjected to it.

Admittedly, when JJ made threats he would leave the MDN blog and never come back, I expressed my dismay. At the time, I felt he offered a humorous glimpse of things. Unfortunately, that is no longer the case. Not trying to attack you, JJ. Just wish there was more conversation and less ramblings.

-- Posted by outsidelookin'in on Tue, Mar 4, 2008, at 11:42 AM

Teacher and Cat,

I would like to point out Teacher's use of "lets" correctly used would actually be a contraction and not a conjunction.

- SecretAgent

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Tue, Mar 4, 2008, at 11:39 AM

JJGates,

No, I haven't wondered about those things. I have, however, wondered why you continue to subject the MDN readers to your special form of insanity. Can you answer that for me?

-- Posted by i <3 huckabee on Tue, Mar 4, 2008, at 11:33 AM

Smoking-

not as clever.

love,

eff ess

-- Posted by Eff Ess on Tue, Mar 4, 2008, at 10:44 AM

teacher,

shouldn't you be teaching?

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Tue, Mar 4, 2008, at 10:19 AM

It is quite the shame that while a family grieves over the loss of a loved one, many of you are on here arguing who is right and who is wrong on the whole issue.

In many regards, I could expect it from those such as JJ, and even a few others, but for the tit for tat, back and forth, that the "editors" have succombed to is highly disappointing. I am sure the family is really interested in reading how and who should receive so called credit for breaking the story. As with most other media outlets, bad news is business. The important part isn't who brought it to you first, it is how do we help a fellow community family move on. There is an obligation to this community that the MDN has, and most of this filth doesn't belong.

To the family of the gentlemen that was found, some of us truly grieve with you, while otherrs try to make a name for themselves in the "public" forum.

-- Posted by BDawk4Prez on Tue, Mar 4, 2008, at 8:33 AM

Eff Ess - thanks for the correction on my grammar, and also for the tip on National Grammar Day. More information is available here: http://nationalgrammarday.com/

Any improvement in the level of grammar, syntax, and spelling is always welcome and this Web site is an excellent reference. ;)

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Tue, Mar 4, 2008, at 8:22 AM

I would like to wish everybody a happy National Grammar Day, however.

-- Posted by Eff Ess on Tue, Mar 4, 2008, at 8:05 AM

thanks eCrump for setting us straight.

and jj, i'm sure your new blog will do well.

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Tue, Mar 4, 2008, at 7:28 AM

The truth, as usual, is a bit fragmented. A bit here, a bit there. Nobody owns it all (sorry JJ!). We only own our own particular mossaics of it.

Here are the bits of the puzzle I've spotted:

JJ did not post the name of the man who died in the park. He posted what I'd have probably posted if I'd heard about it before he did.

He did post the names of two other people saying he'd heard they were involved in a murder. They weren't.

Kathy didn't say JJ posted the name of the man who died in the park, but it was possible to read that implication into her comment if you forgot about or didn't see the message about the 1982 or 1983 murder (which I deleted when another reader alerted me to the error of accusation).

Now we've got collaboration going, because JJ and Eff Ess have created new meaning out of what had been only potential. An implication becomes an assertion.

It is true that a woman was murdered in the park in 1983 or so.

As I say, the bits of truth are out there, a little scattered, a little messy, but there for us to make of them what we can.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Mon, Mar 3, 2008, at 8:13 PM

effess, that is quite the ironic post.

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Mon, Mar 3, 2008, at 7:33 PM

Just a PSA to those in the Marshall community wanting to join JJ in the Pulitzer-prize winning club, do not end your sentences with a transition, however.

-- Posted by Eff Ess on Mon, Mar 3, 2008, at 7:32 PM

Again, I point out that this had nothing to do with JJ and I stand by my comment. I did, in fact, read all of the comments previously posted, including the one by our editor, Eric Crump. I would classify the response by JJ as being more in the nature of a rant than anything else. He is free, as am I, to post as he wishes, however.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Mon, Mar 3, 2008, at 7:28 PM

Ms. fairchild, I don't mean to be disrespectful, but you need to review what exactly the post you endorsed says. It is attacking jj for releasing the identity of the body, which he DID NOT DO, for the record. When you write a post that says "...public sources like the newspaper have a responsibility to the family" it implies that you agree with nomad, that JJ somehow breached a duty to the family of the deceased. nomad was downright wrong, and if you want to agree with what he says that is fine, but don't accuse jj of being "testy" when he corrects you.

i would also like to add my thanks to jj for breaking this story while the marshall news staff was home with their families. some of us, including my family, appreciate social media and its benefits to a community.

-- Posted by Eff Ess on Mon, Mar 3, 2008, at 7:22 PM

JJ - my posting had nothing to do with you whatsoever. I merely pointed out nomad's correct identification of why newspaper and other media do not always publish information immediately. Praise for nomad is not criticism or you or anyone else. A little testy today, are you?

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Mon, Mar 3, 2008, at 7:06 PM

Nomad, thanks for your posting about the identification of the man who died in Foothills Park this weekend. It neatly made the point that public sources like the newspaper have a responsibility to the family that others often fail to recognize.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Mon, Mar 3, 2008, at 6:24 PM

jj-

Are you a relative of the man in the park, now identified? Do you have any ties to this family? Have you even considered how reading this small advertized blog, effects others? Leave the actual news to the Marshall Democrat & KMMO. They do have the capability of producing whole facts. Not coffee shop rumors or half bits of truth, passed down to mere lies. I'm sure the paper did not release the name until the family had been notified first.

Grow up and respect your rights to post your opinion.

-- Posted by nomad on Mon, Mar 3, 2008, at 6:08 PM

I also want to send my prayers and respects out to the friends and family of the man found in the park. God Bless you!

-- Posted by Lynz on Mon, Mar 3, 2008, at 11:59 AM

I believe Mr. Crump and the other reporters do have a "LIFE" other than the MDN. Therefor, it is quite understandable that this site is not updated 24/ 7.

I do pray for the family and friends of the man found in the park. What a horrible shock this must have been.

-- Posted by nomad on Mon, Mar 3, 2008, at 11:20 AM

rex,

Are you really delusional enough to believe that people come to this website to read your pointless drivel? Who are these "fans" that you speak of? Are they the manifestation of your multiple personalities?

Can we get back to relevant topics, or must we continue to listen to you inflating your ego? At least JJGates occassionally decides to post real information from time to time, which is more than I can say for you.

-- Posted by i <3 huckabee on Mon, Mar 3, 2008, at 9:39 AM

maybe i am

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Mon, Mar 3, 2008, at 8:42 AM

hey teacher, shouldn't you be teaching?

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Mon, Mar 3, 2008, at 8:31 AM

Along the lines of thewayIlive2268's post on parental attitudes, see http://tinyurl.com/2xun3d

The author argues that a sense of entitlement is widespread and still spreading. And that it erodes the possibility of happiness since disappointment is inevitable.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Mon, Mar 3, 2008, at 7:52 AM

I hate to stay on this DARE topic but I find it really amazing how certain people say the program failed if a child uses drugs. These are probably the same people that blame the teachers if their child is behind at school or the coach because their child doesn't get to play due to lack of skill.

You need to realize the DARE program is a foundation for the parents to build on. The teachers provide the information and the tools for the children to learn but the PARENTS need to teach at home too. Help your child with their home work, read a book, or just ask questions about school. I find it funny when I talk to some of the parents whose children attend school with mine and they have no clue what is going on with them. So many parents want their children to play sports but have never played catch with them and get mad when they don't get much playing time.

It is not everyone else's job to raise YOUR child. The parents still have to spend time with the children and teach them things too. I am sick and tired of parents putting the blame on everyone else when their child does wrong. It's funny because those same children like to place the blame on everyone other then themselves when the get caught. See children do learn from their parents.

You had your children so raise them, teach them, and care for them. Everyone else is here to help no do it for you!!!!!!

-- Posted by thewayilive2268 on Mon, Mar 3, 2008, at 6:43 AM

Oh I understand. It is you that is lost in self absorbtion and 10 different personalities.

So what did all the wonderful people of Marshall do with their weekend since we had warm weather? I spent my time with my children. Riding bikes, running, had a picnic and even got a kite. We were truely blessed with wonderful weather this past weekend. Wish we could have more of it. Did you spend your time in Marshall or out of town?

-- Posted by get a clue on Mon, Mar 3, 2008, at 2:32 AM

DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY EARPLUGS?

How do motorcycles get away with being so loud on our city streets?????!!!!!

They fit right in with the subwoofers rattling my windows and the mufflerless cars on our streets.

Mayor? Council People? Chief Of Police? Answers?

-- Posted by Cheese on Sun, Mar 2, 2008, at 9:04 PM

I believe he is about as annoying as the teacher in the Charlie Brown cartoons. Whaa, whaa, whaa.

-- Posted by get a clue on Sun, Mar 2, 2008, at 8:17 PM

Kudos to JJ (I think) for his scoop regarding the Indian Foothills fatality mystery. It could become problematic though if JJ continues getting scoops as dead bodies pop up around the burg.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Mar 2, 2008, at 7:48 PM

I really enjoy JJ. He's the reason I check the comments so often.

-- Posted by Cat Lover on Sun, Mar 2, 2008, at 5:30 PM

I'm GLAD the the Marshall Democrat News and JJ are part of this internet revolution.

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Sun, Mar 2, 2008, at 3:42 PM

"Nearly 70 percent of Americans believe traditional journalism is out of touch, and nearly half are turning to the Internet to get their news, according to a new survey." http://www.reuters.com/article/internetN...

I'm the the Marshall Democrat News and JJ are part of this internet revolution.

I love the site. Keep up the greatest work.

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Sun, Mar 2, 2008, at 3:41 PM

Rex and Oklahoma Reader have a good point. In this case, JJ did good. He did what the paper always aims to do: Inform the community about people and events of interest.

JJ got the news before the Marshall Democrat-News staff (it's his scoop, to give credit where it's due, and good for him!) But he got it to the community *via* the Marshall Democrat-News (again, to give credit where it's due).

We're a small business with a small staff, as most of you know, and we can't be everywhere all the time. But even if we were bigger, we would still depend on members of the community to give us tips and provide stories and pictures.

It's called "community journalism" by some. It's long been an important part of the project. The website just makes it easier for people to get news out more quickly (obviously).

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Sun, Mar 2, 2008, at 7:42 AM

Rex,

I sure am.

-- Posted by get a clue on Sun, Mar 2, 2008, at 4:33 AM

MHS Teacher, you seem to imply that you disapprove of the freedom that the Democrat News has given its readers to voice their opinions. Please consider what a wonderful, and increasingly rare opportunity it is for a community to hear the disparate voices within its body. Much of what you are dismayed with is satire, I have news for you J.J. does not hate old people.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Sun, Mar 2, 2008, at 12:51 AM

MHS Teacher,

We can thank JJGates for the disrespect that you speak of. But then again, I guess we can thank the Marshall Democrat News as well for allowing him to do so.

-- Posted by get a clue on Sat, Mar 1, 2008, at 10:09 PM

Has anyone else but me noticed in the past few years cars parking on their front lawns and making muddy ruts in their yards. Any one have answers to why this got started.

-- Posted by Cat Lover on Fri, Feb 29, 2008, at 4:31 PM

JJ, don't quote me. I've already stated I recant! At that specific time you were not typing random blurbs of poo poo. As it is my opinion that you and others are now are typing random blurbs of poo poo. Just as this would be a random blurb of poo poo.

-- Posted by nomad on Fri, Feb 29, 2008, at 12:58 PM

Or, my toes!

-- Posted by Green Eyes on Fri, Feb 29, 2008, at 10:59 AM

Thank you Greeneyes. Happy Leap Day. Careful though, wearing Flip Flops while Leaping could be hazardous to your health.

-- Posted by nomad on Fri, Feb 29, 2008, at 10:30 AM

Happy Leap Day! Flip flops are in abundance!

-- Posted by Green Eyes on Fri, Feb 29, 2008, at 8:56 AM

When you get to the men`s room, you will see a sign that says, "Gentlemen." Pay no heed to it. Go right on in.

-- Posted by teachers_wife on Thu, Feb 28, 2008, at 9:21 PM

teachers_wife,

I would completely agree with what you just said if you were a man. Perhaps you could have your husband post comments on this website instead?

-- Posted by i <3 huckabee on Thu, Feb 28, 2008, at 8:52 PM

When did drivel become interesting or for that matter newsworthy?

-- Posted by teachers_wife on Thu, Feb 28, 2008, at 8:40 PM

JJ,

Your post where you said you were funny...., now that's hilarious.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Feb 28, 2008, at 8:19 PM

Want to apologize for my other half (JJGates) again he obviously didn't run his facts through my side of the brain or I would have told him to find some facts that weren't a decade plus three years old. Ok gotta go JJ wants to play his favorite game with me, you know the one where he pretends like he is the Big Bad Wolf and I pretend like I'm first little pig's house.

-- Posted by DAgates on Thu, Feb 28, 2008, at 4:43 PM

Hey JJ,

Thanks for the belly laugh. Love Robin myself. Genie's are pure trickery, not like witches. Witches are sneaky. They'll send a spell to poke your eyeballs out.

-- Posted by nomad on Thu, Feb 28, 2008, at 4:12 PM

Q: Who is going to be go out for a drink after work this evening?

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Thu, Feb 28, 2008, at 2:56 PM

Muffin,

No list of positive things in Marshall is complete without mentioning the Jim the Wonder Dog Memorial Garden.

-- Posted by i <3 huckabee on Thu, Feb 28, 2008, at 1:17 PM

So how many usernames do you have, JJ or BJ or perhaps even rex?? OOps I'm bashing a basher.. You were once asked to quit the babble and the other users (in the begining) liked your rambelings. We thought it would be lonely not reading your posts. Welp, I recant. Be negative under one username please. It's old... and insulting.

-- Posted by nomad on Thu, Feb 28, 2008, at 1:10 PM

It's too easy for folks to think their glass is half empty rather than half full. Marshall has so many positive things going for them....an active tourism commission, the Martin community center/Beazley aircraft museum, better intersections on highway 65, improvements at the fairground, health office, new ambulance building, Missouri Valley College and on and on. While they may not be perfect projects - too much tax money on the ambulance Taj Mahal, city more than likely subsidizing Martin/Beazley daily operations, we are a most fortunate community. Scary that I would be of the opinion as JJGates, if you don't like it here move or be a plus rather than a minus.

-- Posted by Muffin on Thu, Feb 28, 2008, at 12:00 PM

I find it interesting that there are so many people who dislike the Marshall community. They constantly bash the school, the community, the DARE program, career ladder, women, the skate park, and every other excuse they can think of for their miserable lives. If they are unhappy with this community, MOVE! Get a JOB! Do something productive with your your life!

-- Posted by bj on Thu, Feb 28, 2008, at 10:05 AM

My goodness - JJ, you have no idea how flattered I am that you think of me as middle-aged! Alas, I cannot share my secrets for gainful employment with one so young as you must be, for fear my advice would fall on deaf ears.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Thu, Feb 28, 2008, at 7:23 AM

As a resident of Marshall I find it sad that we have such small minded people like i <3 huckabee and JJGates. Huckabee, do you think that a woman is not capable of having an intelligent conversation or able to have opinions of major issues? If so that is very sad and you need to get your head out of the past. I know several women that are very intelligent.

As for, JJGates, the comments that you make just lets us know that ignorance is still a major problem. I have been reading the post for several months and I have come to the conclusion that you are a very sad and lonely soul. It is apparent that you have several opinions about the community and the people in it but they are all negative and that is sad.

The DARE program is a great thing for the kids in Marshall. The four or five month class is not supposed to put some "magic spell" on the kids that makes them immune to drugs, alcohol, and violence. It is meant as a foundation for the children it is the PARENTS responsibility to make sure they build on that foundation. If that is not done you can not blame the officer's that present the program, like I said they only work with them for four or five months.

I also find it sad that you need someone to test positive for drugs so you can get a job. If that is the deciding factor between you and the person that test positive, I think I would have to re-evaluate myself and figure out why someone else's dirty urine leads to my success.

-- Posted by thewayilive2268 on Thu, Feb 28, 2008, at 6:52 AM

This may sound mean, But should old people have a drivers licence and not like 50's or 60's old but 90 can't see over the steering wheel with blue hair going to walmart to buy smokes in the biggest red boat, old. Because that woman almost hit me tonight wile she was driving in my lane then waved her hand at me like i was doing something wrong. Should she have a drivers licence?

-- Posted by cup cake on Wed, Feb 27, 2008, at 10:53 PM

Sorry, Kathy, what I meant to say was, are any men interested in discussing issues in the Marshall community?

-- Posted by i <3 huckabee on Wed, Feb 27, 2008, at 7:53 PM

Huckabee, please feel free to raise any issue in which you're interested. There are more than a few intelligent and thoughtful bloggers waiting to respond. You may have to be patient and persistent in wading through many postings that drive the discussion in an unexpected direction, but that is the price we pay for our freedom of speech.

-- Posted by Kathy Fairchild on Wed, Feb 27, 2008, at 7:17 PM

I don't fully understand the underlying motivations of the posters on this website, but most of these posts are nonsensible. Can we perhaps talk about some serious subjects effecting our community rather than this preposterous drivel?

-- Posted by i <3 huckabee on Wed, Feb 27, 2008, at 4:14 PM

the color of money...clever.

huckabee,

are you serious? please keep current with the posts. moderator, please feel free to remove i <3 huckabee's most recent comment.

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Wed, Feb 27, 2008, at 3:14 PM

He is the color of money, because when he wins the Olympics for Fetch, I'm going to Disney Land.

Also, I'm no cyclops.

-- Posted by Green Eyes on Wed, Feb 27, 2008, at 3:11 PM

Green iiiii, Do you have a black cat? If your cat is black, are you evil, a witch, or evil and a witch? I ask because historically, black cats are symbolically associated with witchcraft and evil. Also if you are evil, a witch, or both; what is your favorite type of pizza?

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Wed, Feb 27, 2008, at 2:54 PM

Nah. Never said my cat was a "wonder cat." He's perfect, sure.

Wow. How words get misconstrued.

-- Posted by Green Eyes on Wed, Feb 27, 2008, at 2:48 PM

SecretAgentMichaelScarn,

Why do you feel the need to ridicule a Marshall icon like Jim the Wonder Dog? Does it also make you feel better to suggest that people in this community are "morons"?

I don't know why the Marshall Democrat-News allows you to write this filth, but I, for one, find it degrading. This website should be a positive influence in the Marshall community, but yet you use it as a personal forum to attack the fine members of this community.

If the editors of the Marshall Democrat-News do not feel the need restrict this defaming speech, then I will not feel the need to renew my newspaper subscription when it expires.

-- Posted by i <3 huckabee on Wed, Feb 27, 2008, at 2:21 PM

wow! green eyes has a wonder cat! somebody erect a statue!

somebody tell the tourism committee to change their slogan to "Smart dog, smart cat, and morons."

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Wed, Feb 27, 2008, at 11:37 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Not a bad idea. A statue of a cat eyeing the goldfish in the pond on the northwest side of the Jim the Wonder Dog Memorial Garden would be kind of cool.

The park is already a delightful place to visit whether you believe the story or not. The Friends of Jim do a great job tending it.

If you've ever been to a town where people leave empty the lots where buildings once stood -- often home to weeds and wind-blown trash -- you can appreciate what an asset the park is to Marshall.

Not just "a cat"...my cat. :)

-- Posted by Green Eyes on Wed, Feb 27, 2008, at 11:27 AM

Can a cat pick out colors a person was wearing? Could a cat pick out a car by its owner, color, make, or license plate number? Can cats pick out a variety of trees or shrubs, names of a business, or the occupations or homes of strangers?

Can cats read a variety of written languages?

I don't care for cats; they are for witches.

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Wed, Feb 27, 2008, at 9:53 AM

He sleeps on my head at night, too. Cats are peculiar creatures!

-- Posted by Green Eyes on Wed, Feb 27, 2008, at 9:34 AM

No kidding? We had a cat when I was growing up that played fetch, too -- with chunks of dry dog food! It was a hoot.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Wed, Feb 27, 2008, at 9:24 AM

JJ - I would not consider myself a "peeping tom" as you suggest, but rather a hard working American that doesn't have time to monitor the on-going goings on of this blog. I check it once a day, and if it interests me enough, I will comment. As you have pointed out, I don't post that often. But not often is there intelligent conversation going on, hence, the word moron.

While I am here, good point oneofmany. However, I think your alias might be incorrect, because I think you (and I) are one of "a few". By that I mean, the few that want to be constructive and not bash our community.

-- Posted by outsidelookin'in on Wed, Feb 27, 2008, at 7:22 AM

I find the discussions about DARE interesting. I have a friend who teaches DARE, and I'm told the current curriculum deals not only with drug education, but also peer pressure, bullying, anger management, violence, and many other issues. Also, I believe the Missouri Department of Education health requirements mandate that drug education be covered in public schools. I have heard that parents may opt for their children to be excluded from the program, but most of the time, their reasoning is because they don't like their own children questioning their parental alcohol and drug use. Interesting! Make sure you are not assuming that education has stood still since you were there fifteen years ago. This 'taint your granny's world these children are living in!

-- Posted by oneofmany on Wed, Feb 27, 2008, at 12:09 AM

My cat plays fetch.

-- Posted by Green Eyes on Tue, Feb 26, 2008, at 11:08 PM

JJ remember that weird cartoon they showed us in the beginning of DARE...you remind me of that big fat rolled up lady joint character, you talk like you think what you say is important but you come off to the rest of us stoned out of your gord not making a bit of sense.

-- Posted by Superwiner on Tue, Feb 26, 2008, at 9:00 PM

i mean disciplining

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Tue, Feb 26, 2008, at 8:26 PM

i don't have a problem with beating children either

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Tue, Feb 26, 2008, at 8:17 PM

"If they weren't forced they wouldn't do any of the above and would do nothing but sit in front of tv or xbox/playstation all day."

You, sir, have obviously not trained your children well. I don't even need to tell my children not to sit in front of the television for hours. They know that if they do, I'll be forced to take them out behind the wood shed.

That's what's really missing in this country, strong parenting skills. Today's parents are too comforting and too weak. God forbid you hurt your child's feelings or lay a hand on them. Sometimes a child needs to be put in his place, but all of these bleeding heart liberals refuse to do anything about it. It's degrading our society.

-- Posted by i <3 huckabee on Tue, Feb 26, 2008, at 8:13 PM

I'm sorry I have a hard time understanding your alter ego ramblings most of the time. Hey while I have you here, I don't know what side of the brain JJGates is using, the right or the left, but what ever side your not on, would you mind punching the other side in the face.

Hey, "cuz they are forced"....we are talking about 5th graders right...10 and 11 year olds right...so your alter ego means forced like when a 5th grader is forced...

1. To eat all the food on their plate.

2. To take a bath before bed.

3. To make their bed.

4. To go to school.

5. To do their homework.

6. To clean their room.

7. To brush their teeth.

I could go on and on with things 5th grade children are forced to do, they are children after all, and have to be forced to do almost everything that is productive for their betterment. If they weren't forced they wouldn't do any of the above and would do nothing but sit in front of tv or xbox/playstation all day.

-- Posted by Superwiner on Tue, Feb 26, 2008, at 5:51 PM

I'm sorry my split persona didn't make themselves clear...he meant "cuz they are forced" to do DARE not drink.

-- Posted by DAgates on Tue, Feb 26, 2008, at 5:38 PM

"i hate to bust your bubble nomad but i graduated from DARE and so did all my drinking buddies............they do it cuz they are forced......... the effects are minute.....its a nice thought though but im a realistic guy.

Dare class of 1996,

Jay Jackson Gates"

"cuz they are forced" you mean like they had a gun to their head and were told to guzzle the beer or do you mean "cuz they are forced" like they had a big crowd standing around them yelling "CHUG, CHUG, CHUG".

I'll steal a line from your alter ego DAGates, "Ooooh, look at me I'm the Waterboy". The stuff you spew, wow!!

Why don't you tell us what would work besides DARE (not talking about what would have worked for you as it sounds like nothing would have, you are clearly one of those people pleasers who needs attention whether it be positive or negative attention.)

-- Posted by Superwiner on Tue, Feb 26, 2008, at 5:13 PM

So I have come to the conclusion that some might believe the skate park has a magical force field around it that keeps it free from altered youth?

Your pocket books may get fat but mine are thinning out from the dead head that won't hit the pavement and try to beat you out of your wonderful job

-- Posted by nomad on Tue, Feb 26, 2008, at 4:45 PM

Flip-flops year round would be heaven sent! This lady bug was definitely born in the wrong generation.

-- Posted by Green Eyes on Tue, Feb 26, 2008, at 4:25 PM

Flip-flop weather is approaching!

-- Posted by Green Eyes on Tue, Feb 26, 2008, at 3:12 PM

outside,

why don't you blast tech-savvy news readers in your community by calling them morons?

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Tue, Feb 26, 2008, at 11:43 AM

It's getting discouraging to read these posts. It seems that anything done in this community to try to make it better gets blasted because it doesn't benefit everyone or it may cost a few more of your precious dollars! My understanding is that the DARE program is a volunteer program, these officers GIVE their time to educate our youth on the dangers of drugs. If a kid is curious, he's going to find out on his own, with or without the DARE program. It's getting embarrassing to see our community blasted on a daily basis by morons who think they are being funny! What must people considering our community for a future home think. How discouraging..............

-- Posted by outsidelookin'in on Tue, Feb 26, 2008, at 11:33 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Good point, outside. It's a common phenomenon in public online forums for participants, in the heat of battle, to forget they are posting their words for all to see. It might be easy to assume that no one else notices or cares what we say here, but actually people elsewhere do read and do form opinions about our community based in part on what they see here.

Of course, it's also worth noting that not everyone who posts here is necessarily from Saline County. Anybody could post here from anywhere and how would we know?

...yawn....zzzzzz.....

-- Posted by niuges on Tue, Feb 26, 2008, at 11:32 AM

Anti-drug essay winner now meth felon

http://blogs.kansascity.com/crime_scene/...

She probably participated in a DARE program...

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Tue, Feb 26, 2008, at 10:41 AM

intelligent posts indeed. These opinions from graduates of past DARE programs are most insightful. I'm not familiar with the current DARE program, but right now I am not prepared to say that the program does more good than bad. some might say that DARE is the gateway to drugs. You learn about drugs and their effects. Kids are curious.

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Tue, Feb 26, 2008, at 10:15 AM

So, rex & JJ-

Would you be the type of neighbor that would sit on their front porch and ignore the smell of the poison and watch the small children playing around a trashed yard w/ odd hoses and jugs? Or- would you be proactive and lift the phone to voice your concern for the children as well as your own life/property?

I'm not at all an angel. There was no DARE when I was young. In fact I have asked my old friends to forgive my stupidity when I had sleepovers and pulled the tray from under the couch and offered it up like candy. It took watching many (so called) friends get rotting teeth, lose most everything they had & get busted to realize that this not the path I want for myself or my children.

Would DARE have stopped my evil ways? Possibly- Has DARE helped my children. YES. I reinforce what they learned and answer their questions. I do not shame my past. I reflect and thank my creator for giving me the strength to walk away.

Poke fun, it doesn't matter. 5 not on dope is better than 5 on.

-- Posted by nomad on Tue, Feb 26, 2008, at 10:11 AM

WOW! Intelligent postings... not random blurbs of poo poo. I would be so-- understanding if the Dem News did close off this forum.

Sad, though. I enjoy posting and reading different views of local/ visiting readers.

Any program that sends a positive, encouraging message to our youth is well worth an optimistic view through my rose colored glasses. The local police men/women try to instill to these children, courage, to go against this poisonous grain. Whether it is friends or family being the bad influence.

Get 'em young, show our kids the facts and educate them on other positive influences.

-- Posted by nomad on Tue, Feb 26, 2008, at 9:51 AM

Oh good. Another know it all on the board. rex care to explain your comment???

-- Posted by get a clue on Tue, Feb 26, 2008, at 8:59 AM

with the exception of like 5 people, everybody is on dope.

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Tue, Feb 26, 2008, at 4:59 AM

Hey... hate to point out the obvious but didn't everyone graduate from DARE...I mean really hasn't it been around for like 15 years in our Wonder Dog loving community. I mean I even graduated back when it first started. Just because a few weak minded folks succumbed to peer pressure doesn't mean everyone else did. DARE works for those who actually listened and for those who had parents that looked out for them like mine.

-- Posted by Superwiner on Mon, Feb 25, 2008, at 10:52 PM

I have no idea. For I am not a loser.

-- Posted by get a clue on Mon, Feb 25, 2008, at 10:35 PM

Sorry, that comment was for JJ. My computer messed up and didn't type that it's self.

-- Posted by get a clue on Mon, Feb 25, 2008, at 10:25 PM

You can get medication for that you know?

-- Posted by get a clue on Mon, Feb 25, 2008, at 10:24 PM

I am glad to see that I am not the only one that is sick and tired of JJ. It is obvious that he comes here to validate himself because he, in the real world, is useless. That is sad. Oh what it is to be a cyber bully and want to be know it all.

get a clue

(wonder who this is for?)

-- Posted by get a clue on Mon, Feb 25, 2008, at 9:58 PM

Back on November 4, 2005 The Marshall Democrat-News ran a story entitled "Electric flag again "waves" from Courthouse." According to the article the United Daughters of the Confederacy had taken donations and several local business had donated time and resources to refurbish the electric American flag that hangs on the North side of the Saline County Courthouse. The article stated the flag had been mounted on the Courthouse in 1917 but had not been working since the 1980s. I remember the flag "waving" from when I was a child. I thought it was great when the effort was made to refurbish the flag. But now there are several lights on it that don't light up and I have not seen it "wave" in some time. Seems like it was a big deal to get it refurbished but it has been allowed to start to deteriorate again in just a few short years. I believe when it was refurbished it should have also been taken into consideration what it was going to take to keep it in proper working order for the future. I know people are strapped for money with the economy the way it is right now but maybe another drive for donations needs to be done to at least replace the burned out bulbs??

-- Posted by Typesetter on Mon, Feb 25, 2008, at 4:04 PM

Early Congrats to our 5th Grade Youth who will be graduating the D.A.R.E program this evening.

This is a wonderful program for our kids and the graduation ceremony a learning tool for the parents of these children.

If you have never attended a D.A.R.E Graduation Ceremony, you should. It brings back the understanding of "just give it a try." peer preasure...and how to be a possitive role for these children and help reinforce the,

JUST SAY NO, motto:

-- Posted by nomad on Mon, Feb 25, 2008, at 3:57 PM

i'm with Muffin on the he has never sinned. Please!And then I'm an extremist.......Blah....Blah.....Blah........WHATEVER!!!

-- Posted by cup cake on Mon, Feb 25, 2008, at 1:01 PM

Right now, I'm spending quality time with Jonah Matranga. He's a genius from San Francisco. Brilliant in mind and voice. His bands include Far, New End Original, onelinedrawing, and Gratitude. Currently, he's flying solo. But, nonetheless, it's magical! Lyrically beautiful.

-- Posted by Green Eyes on Mon, Feb 25, 2008, at 8:50 AM

Hmmmmm, didn't know they made computers that typed all by themselves.

-- Posted by get a clue on Mon, Feb 25, 2008, at 8:45 AM

JJGates,

of course you are perfect. We, being everybody, cannot blame you for imperfect technology.

-- Posted by Eff Ess on Mon, Feb 25, 2008, at 7:43 AM

Oh my goodness! JJ has a fault! He can not spell! Mark it on the calendar. This way all can remember he IS NOT PERFECT!! Among other things that is.

-- Posted by get a clue on Sun, Feb 24, 2008, at 10:00 PM

nice hat

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Sun, Feb 24, 2008, at 3:44 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Thanks!

I have to admit I was a little disappointed in Obama's response to Nader's announcement. Seemed a bit defensive for a guy who has nothing to fear from Nader's candidacy. This is not 2000 or even 2004. Nader isn't going to make a dent in Obamania.

CNN quotes Obama as saying, "He seems to have a pretty high opinion of his own work."

Well, sure! So does Barack Obama, we would hope. So does every candidate out there who spends two years trying to woo voters.

Anyway, it sounds as if Nader is couching his candidacy in its proper context. He's there to make noise, add some spice to the conversation and the campaign, keep things from settling into the usual Republican/Democratic binary that gets pretty samey after awhile.

"Dissent is the mother of ascent," Nader said. He's got a point. Our nation was born of dissent.

He's not going to win, but he may have a useful role to play.

(Quotes from http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/24/n... )

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Sun, Feb 24, 2008, at 10:45 AM

You have GOT to be kidding!!! Practice what you preach Justin, I mean JJ! Do us all a HUGE favor and fall off your high horse. Handsome?? Smart?? Hold on while I die laughing.

I am being PERSONALLY ATTACKED!!! HELP ME!

"Cry me a river JJGates" please use your own material i have used the phrase...'cry me a river justin timberlake' numerous times on this board. i know im cool and all but please do not use my words even though you are not able to come up with your own.

thanks

-- Posted by JJGates on Sat, Feb 23, 2008, at 12:07 PM

-- Posted by get a clue on Sun, Feb 24, 2008, at 2:20 AM

I don't know as I'd go so far as to call myself a bluegrasser, but I've got aspirations :-)

Haven't played Clinch Mountain Backstep before, but it's a cool tune and I've found a couple of tabs for it so I'll give it a go, too.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Sat, Feb 23, 2008, at 1:45 PM

Eric,

Your a bluegrasser? I'm working on Clinch Mountain Backstep on the banjo.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Feb 23, 2008, at 8:25 AM

Green Eyes,

I've been learning a tune on my mandolin called "Flannery's Dream." Flannery is the name of my oldest daughter. I discovered the tune by accident. A friend was going to toss a bunch of CDs into his garage-sale stuff and said I could go through them. I picked up a CD by a bluegrass band, Blue Highway, and the title caught my eye. I thought it was pretty cool, but I couldn't find the music to the bluegrass version (and I'm *very* slow at transcribing). But then I found a version on Napster by the great fiddler John Hartford *and* I found the notation for his old-time version. Apparently the tune originated in Appalachia, eastern Kentucky, according to one source. Now I'm having fun! And that's what's in my ears at the moment.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Sat, Feb 23, 2008, at 7:28 AM

Everyone has their own set of chords and lyrics that is their life. A theme song. What is in everyone's ears? What genre do you prefer and what has been playing lately?

-- Posted by Green Eyes on Fri, Feb 22, 2008, at 7:12 PM

Cry me a river JJGates. You are so full of yourself it's not even funny. Like I said, why don't YOU run for President since you are obviously smarter then Obama,Clinton and the rest of us NORMAL people. Better watch myself, I am going to get deleted. JJGates lacks attention so he seeks it here. Pretty sad if you ask me.

-- Posted by get a clue on Fri, Feb 22, 2008, at 6:54 PM

Slate published an interesting article earlier this week:

"The Supervisor, the Champion, and the Promoter: What psychological personality tests reveal about Clinton, Obama, and McCain" by Emily Yoffe

(http://www.slate.com/id/2184696/)

It's an analysis of the three candidates' personalities based on how Yoffe thinks they would score on a Myers-Briggs personality test.

I took one of those things years ago and it seemed pretty accurate. Yoffe's guesses also seemed to peg the candidates pretty well, I thought. It would be really interesting to see how the results would differ if the candidates themselves took the test.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Fri, Feb 22, 2008, at 12:51 PM

John Dickerson over at Slate agrees that Clinton debates well:

"It's easy to see why Hillary likes debates. They match her natural rhythms the way the theater hall matches Obama's speech and body language. Clinton looks more at ease in the setting where she can knock out facts and offer specific details about her programs, like creating a trade prosecutor to monitor international agreements, or her plan to freeze foreclosures. Her performance in Austin no doubt bucked up her troops by reminding them why they liked her, and it gave anyone sitting on the fence more to think about."

(http://www.slate.com/id/2184892/nav/tap3/)

But he says Obama stayed with her for the most part, so her performance probably won't be enough to make a serious dent in his momentum.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Fri, Feb 22, 2008, at 12:42 PM

Easy to see JJGates is pretty proud of himself touting he has never sinned. Really. So are you, JJGates, claiming to be the next Messiah? Oh gosh, if so we're all in trouble. One thing about JJ, we'll won't be able to say his humility is showing.

-- Posted by Muffin on Fri, Feb 22, 2008, at 10:34 AM

Boy it is obvious that JJGates is being protected by the people at the Democrate news. Thanks for deleting my comment. It is also very two-sided that you let him speak his mind and be little people but when someone tries to go against him, oh no that can't happen!

Thanks a lot. Now I know why I stayed away from adding a comment as long as I did. It is just like Marshall to favor "certain" people and barricade them from any harsh words even when they deserve the same thing they are dishing out. The good old town will NEVER change.

-- Posted by get a clue on Fri, Feb 22, 2008, at 9:47 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Most of the comments that have been deleted from our Web site have one thing in common: They include a personal attack against someone. The rules for using this forum, always available above, are:

"We reserve the right to exclude entries that we deem disrespectful, threatening, obscene or in other ways objectionable."

And we apply that policy as fairly as we can.

Anybody watch the Dems debate last night? I only caught bits and pieces. I only caught bits of the last debate between Clinton and Obama, too, but their performances don't seem to have changed much. There's not much difference between the two policy-wise and they have to strain a bit to distinguish themselves. But while Obama is generally conceded to be a far superior orator, I think Clinton is a better debater.

What's everybody else think?

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Fri, Feb 22, 2008, at 6:54 AM

The Marshall Street Department should be commended for doing a good job clearing the streets. They have one of those thankless job. Kudos to all

-- Posted by Muffin on Thu, Feb 21, 2008, at 5:28 PM

Smokin cheetah, I want to congratulate you on being the one person posting lately that makes any sense. I appreciate your comments regarding a persons search for a church that lets them be who they already are. My only addition would be this: Many people have their own beliefs, whether it is from their upbringing, or their own putting together of pieces they believe to be true. I don't think that looking for a church that fits you makes you a sinner or a bad person (although some do look for the one that makes it okay to say sorry once a week and continue on in their ways.) I think many just want to find a place to worship that supports the beliefs they have, hence the many denominations.

As far as people being hypocrites, that's not just limited to the church. There are people I work with now that strive to appear to be the steller, exemplary employee. However, when the boss isn't around, they have nothing good to say about anyone or anything. I think the words hypocrite and brown-noser are pretty closely related.

-- Posted by outsidelookin'in on Thu, Feb 21, 2008, at 11:42 AM

Mr. Crump, to respectfully clarify, I am Christian, my spouse is a self-professed aetheist and one of my children is a self-professed paegan. So I am not bashing Christians per say...it has just been my experience that there are too many people out there that have put too much importance on the person/place delivering the message than on the message itself.

-- Posted by niuges on Thu, Feb 21, 2008, at 10:53 AM

(shakes head and wonders...)How is it that "organized religion" has come to this? How is it that the "messenger" has become more important than the actual message? How is it that I have a deep faith in Christ, but dispise everything "organized religion" stands for? Well, maybe because I have witnessed so many two-faced hypocrites in those "houses" of worship. That most of them go there as a "social" event to show off their newest outfits and such, and they never give a second thought to others. For instance...one person in particular jumps to mind...not from this community mind you....but from a church I used to attend a few years back...this so called "good" Christian spent 12 years as the church secretary...during which she embezzled some $125,000 from the church...and they think it maybe more than that, but could only account for the 125....I get so tired of hearing things like "If you don't go to "our" church then you won't be saved." (You can insert any denomiation in those quotes that you want....they're all the same...I'll put my faith where it belongs..In Christ, not in some church "building" or some so called "Christians" who haven't got a clue.

-- Posted by niuges on Thu, Feb 21, 2008, at 12:12 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
This comment seems very similar to recent comments bashing witches. I would urge those who disagree with this perspective to please address the argument rather than the arguer. And I would urge niuges to ease up on bashing Christians and churches. I'd be interested in hearing why organized religion is flawed, but blanket insults of church-going Christians is no better than blanket insults of wiccans.

Rhetoric can be fun and edifying, but it doesn't have to be a blood sport.

I am a daily reader of the Marshall paper both online and paper. I also read other newspapers from the area online. I would just like to remind the folks that post on here that other people see what you write and it looks ridiculous. I fully appreciate an open blog but remember - this one can't be missed by folks that may be looking for a town to visit or move to as it's right there on the front page. I am a very open person and agree that everyone is free to have their opinions but if people want to take "digs" at each other and have type of back and forth strange conversations - email each other. No one else can follow what the few of you go back and forth about. I would just like the paper to remain respectful.

-- Posted by my_thought on Wed, Feb 20, 2008, at 9:05 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
An excellent point. As it happens, respectful disagreement takes more time, more thought and more wit than the retort reflex exhibited here too often. It's usually more interesting, too. But the repartee hereabouts has some decent entertainment value, too.

It's fun. It's fast. It's fine.

But yeah, when it devolves into a slap-fest, then it's useless and boring to everyone but the combatants.

OK Rex, lets just get this straight. The salem witch trials were a blight on American history. Neighbors against Neighbors actually I could say you were a witch just because I personally disaproved of your comments and the only way you could disprove it was by sinking in a lake and thus drowning or by not being consumed by flames on a pire. Last time I checked you're flamable so you must be a witch. Religous governments are intolerant and ignorant, thus bad. Saudi Arabia, Holy-Roman Empire, Spanish Empire, Great Britain before seperation of church and state. Remember the Puritians came over for some reason and that is religious freedom. Then they were free to burn and hang who ever they wanted and men were free to beat their wives with a stick no bigger than your thumb. You know those lusty women are always trying to corrupt our communities unless we keep them in check. Ok now to Joe McCarthy. Here is a little insight to your hero. "McCarthy's tactics and his inability to substantiate his claims led to his being discredited and censured by the United States Senate. The term "McCarthyism," coined in 1950 in reference to McCarthy's practices, was soon applied to similar anti-communist pursuits. Today the term is used more generally to describe demagogic, reckless, and unsubstantiated accusations, as well as public attacks on the character or patriotism of political opponents." Now that being said lets pass out the marijuana hats for liberals, the yellow stars for jews, and we can move toward a religious government that can really accomplish something.

-- Posted by G on Wed, Feb 20, 2008, at 10:46 AM

don't they already wear witch hats?

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Tue, Feb 19, 2008, at 5:42 PM

Rex,

That's hilarious! I'm so glad that you are joking.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Feb 18, 2008, at 4:40 PM

My thought is that those on the far right wing of the GOP do not like McCain because of the fact that he will reach across the aisle when necessary to support legislation. This also scares the far left wing of the Democratic party. Those that are voting for him are the centrists of the GOP and many independents. Regardless, I think the GOP realizes that they have absolutely no chance at all at retaining the White House in 08. For that reason, it was decided that although Romney was perhaps the best GOP candidate, to run him now would saddle him with a huge loss in 08 and then possibly prevent him from being a viable candidate in 2012. Romney's withdrawal from the race has upset the conservatives and has given Huckabee cause to remain in the race. I think the GOP is looking at this race from a "long term" perspective and McCain is pretty much expendable. All of this can be blamed on the failed administration of Geo. Bush. No one wants his endorsement as it will be a kiss of death. Finally, I think Obama will abandon the strategy of partisanship that prevails on both sides of the aisle and prevents our representatives in DC from looking out for what is best for America. All of our current problems can be traced to the lack of cooperation on the part of both parties. I, for one, am tired of it and I think the majority of Americans are as well. Just my humble thoughts!

-- Posted by OldOwl on Mon, Feb 18, 2008, at 5:54 AM

Eric,

It is a little strange considering McCain's political reputation. It also makes one wonder who is doing the voting. McCain has a reputation for reaching across party lines to help out but seldom seems to ask for the same in return. I think that attitude sells to the public though it is frowned on within party lines. Personally I like a guy who disregards the company line to do what is right but it seems he doesn't seem to be one to initiate things himself.

I think it goes back to the same old issue in politics-the right people aren't always running. (And yes this applies to your local offices and boards sometimes) We've fallen into a lesser of two evils election process for the most part. We want our country run by the best, most qualified person. Was that person really George Bush? For that matter was it Al Gore? Probably not. But it's who they marched in front of us.

For years we've been the best team in world, but when it comes right down to it we always seem to run out the third string QB for election time. That is why many feel that either Clinton or Obama will walk all over McCain. If you aren't a power broker in your own party then why should we give him the ball.

-- Posted by a realist on Sat, Feb 16, 2008, at 8:12 PM

I remain a bit puzzled by the sudden rise of John McCain as the GOP front-runner. His campaign has been running on empty in terms of money. He's distrusted (at best) by the conservative base (and despised by many). He's admired (somewhat) by Democrats and independents, which should spell political death.

Both Romney and Huckabee looked like better bets to get the nomination until a month or so ago.

What gives? Is it a sign of resurgence among moderate Republicans (who have been pretty thoroughly marginalized through the Bush years)?

I haven't come across a very good explanation & wonder what you all think.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Sat, Feb 16, 2008, at 3:11 PM

Sorry I didn't phrase that correctly...but...I still think I got my point across...and yes, serviceman is right....would like to read more "intelligent" conversation on here.....

-- Posted by niuges on Sat, Feb 16, 2008, at 10:57 AM

Not everybody can set around and watch tv all day and night. Some of us have to step away from the keyboard to go to WORK in the real world, not this playground that some people reside in.

-- Posted by serviceman on Sat, Feb 16, 2008, at 9:29 AM

somebody (niuges) doesn't know how Jeopardy is played.

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Fri, Feb 15, 2008, at 11:41 PM

Alex...I'll take Judge Judy Gates for 100

zygote + same gene pool = dim light bulb

-- Posted by niuges on Fri, Feb 15, 2008, at 10:32 PM

School Districts for $2,000-Alex...

dedicated teachers, staff and students, 94% avg attendance rate, three times accredited with distinction, 86% graduation rate, 62% placement in post-secondary schools after graduation, 86% placement of career/technical center graduates, $8,216 per student expenditure, 1 computer for every 4 students, outstanding Booster Club, award winning band, orchestra, choir programs, award winning academic teams, FFA programs, strong CTA, Parents as Teachers Program, strong Eduational Foundation, many, many extra-cirricular activities, award winning athletic teams and probably the best sports complex in the state, all with 55% free or reduced lunch eligible students and outdated buildings....What is the Marshall Public School District? The horse that some people now choose to saddle up is dead. Stop beating that dead horse and show some OWL PRIDE!

-- Posted by OldOwl on Fri, Feb 15, 2008, at 8:53 PM

yeehaw JJ.

giddy up

-- Posted by Eff Ess on Fri, Feb 15, 2008, at 6:45 PM

Hey, JJ stay in that saddle for awhile and wridden. You are on to something.

-- Posted by Cat Lover on Fri, Feb 15, 2008, at 6:22 PM

heroes come and go, but legends never die . . . .

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Thu, Feb 14, 2008, at 5:37 PM

Local politics are interesting, but in November we will be electing a new President. Both races are newsworthy. On the GOP side of things, Huckabee is having fun beating up on McCain, the "presumptive nominee". For the Dems, they finally have not one, but two, legit nominees in Hill Clinton and and B. Obama. I, for one, cannot wait for the next primary, caucus, or debate.

-- Posted by OldOwl on Thu, Feb 14, 2008, at 11:57 AM

Cheetah,

Yeah, I have been trying to figure out just exactly who it is that is being protected. I have seen posts that completely alienate women and their contributions (sexist), questioning intelligence (slanderous), and completely absurd comments, but they remain up for everyones viewing pleasure. I didn't see anything wrong with the post you created with the equations and it didn't seem like it was offensive in any way, but they are gone. Oh well, who am I to judge it??

-- Posted by BDawk4Prez on Thu, Feb 14, 2008, at 11:11 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
It may be my job to judge (with help from others on our staff) but your views about what should get posted and what shouldn't are welcome. And I'm happy to explain any decision I make about pulling a comment from the site. When time permits I send email to the person who posted the comment.

It's true that some comments stay posted that someone else might take issue with (feel free to email me if you see something you think is inappropriate). But it's also true that if we tried to eliminate every comment that might potentially offend someone somewhere, very little conversation would occur.

Where the line gets drawn quickest is when comments include personal attacks/insults. Sometimes the comment is generally fine but includes just one line that takes a shot at someone else. We make decisions on a case-by-case basis, taking into account the tone and topic of the conversation.

Hey JJ....

"these valley alum hippies write essays...and arrange press releases...."

Please enlighten your audience on what this is supposed to mean????

Also, was the post about reporting sporting events targeted towards me?? Cuz I'm a little confused on that one as well. Please share....

-- Posted by BDawk4Prez on Wed, Feb 13, 2008, at 8:16 PM

yeah, you tell them to contact Secret Agent Michael Scarn. that is a deal.

love always,

Secret Agent Michael Scarn

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Wed, Feb 13, 2008, at 4:37 PM

"If we had what we were promised, we would have all of the resources in the world to operate in the black." - Mr. This isn't even my town.

we? We? WE??

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Wed, Feb 13, 2008, at 3:38 PM

I am quite annoyed at those in charge of the TOURIST $. Why is $7800.00 going to buy a floor cleaner for the Aviation Museum?? ....cause they don't have the money to buy it on their own....

Should have thought about that when you were selling bricks!

This money is supposed to be for making our County Tourisim better. Not to help a now FOR PROFFIT museum, buy a floor cleaner!

-- Posted by nomad on Wed, Feb 13, 2008, at 2:55 PM

Gal66,

As far as sports go, it is evident that the passion is definitly in the realm of football, which is fine, but other student athletes deserve the recognition as well.

On to the other subject that you touched on, I have shared several ways that the park could do better with some of their programs. If you scroll back to some previous posts you will see some of the ideas that were suggested. most of these, biased or not, were directed towards the softball programs. There are certainly possibilities outside of that as well.

What I said in my post, which I thought I clarified, but let me do so again for those not paying attention. i am not pointing a finger at the Director and Board only, but at the Dept. all the way down to the coordinators of the programs. I do feel that better decisions should begin at the top, but the parks problem stems further then that.

I am sure Mr. Stubblefield would be gracious to sit down and talk with anyone, hell I have sat down with him many of times, and have even suggested some things as well. Maybe he doesn't see them as being resourceful or usefull, to each is own.

As far as crying, I haven't shed a single tear yet. I am passionate about our youth, I want them to have a chance, I want them to exceed, I want them to have opportunities. Is that crying???

Once again, I am not targeting Mr. Stubblefield, i repeat it is not ENTIRELY his fault, but he should burden much of the blame. That's what happens when you are the high man on the totem pole. I personally don't feel that we take advantedge of enough opportunity, bottom line. there is no reason that this town can't host tournaments all summer long, basketball, football, baseball, softball, soccer other then the fact that we don't have the resources to do so.

So back to my earliest point. Too many broken promises!!!!! If we had what we were promised, we would have all of the resources in the world to operate in the black.

Nuff said!

-- Posted by BDawk4Prez on Wed, Feb 13, 2008, at 1:48 PM

BDawk4Prez from another post you made I saw that you are not from Marshall but I will fill you in on one thing this town will only support Football on Friday nights to the level you and I both think they should, now for why I don't know.

It's not right but that is the way it is.

On to another point you made in another post I would like to know just how you would do things differently at the park so it can operate in the black you seem to have some knowledge of parks and rec.

In your post you say this is not about the Park Board or the Director but to me that is exactly what you are saying it's about.

The phone number to the Park office is in the book all you would have to do is call and I am sure Mr. Stubblefield would be glad to listen to all you have to say hell make an appointment I a sure he will see you.

Don't just cry about the problems give some examples of how to fix them.

I know I would love to see some of them.

-- Posted by Gal66 on Wed, Feb 13, 2008, at 1:21 PM

Couple of things......

First off, I would like to congratulate the Senior girls basketball players on a fine showing last night. My disappointment stems from the hundreds in this community that failed to come and pay tribute. I am not sure where to place the blame, Athletic Director, scheduling, student body, parents, coaches, etc. I remember playing back in the day and the gym filled with fans, cheering and supporting the school, fan of the game or not. It is a sad realization to see a team from 60 miles away turning up with almost the same amount of support as the home town team.

I am not a parent of any of th players and hardly know any of them personally, but they deserve a much better send off then what they got. What happened to just going out and supporting the home team?? How do you have Senior Night and no cheerleaders??

Where is the effort put into these kids that show, thanks for representing our town, our community, both on the court and in the class room. We want the children to join clubs, teams, etc. to stay out of trouble when not in school, but where is the support for them once they do??

Make an effort, go see a ballgame or two. Show support for your community and our future leaders of it. They deserve it.

Once again, great job ladies, sorry the recognition wasn't what all of you deserved.

Second issue........

This stems from something that I have witnessed at several of th games. To the group of students that sit down in the bottom corner of the bleachers. Making fun and talking during the National Anthem is completely unacceptable. The character and intelligence that you show by doing so is extremely disturbing. I encourage you to go read, educate yourself on what that 3 minutes before each game means to others, this country, and those who have someone serving or know someone who has served to give you the freedom to go to a basketball game and make a complete butt of yourself.

It's not cool, it's not funny, and you were my child, well, we won't even get into that.

Just grow up!!!

-- Posted by BDawk4Prez on Wed, Feb 13, 2008, at 12:11 PM

After reading some of the posts on here today, I am really amazed that some of the individuals that write such outlandish idiocracies are intelligent enough to turn on their computers.

Don't vote for Obama because of his name resembellence to a sadistic leader in another country??? I can't believe I wasted 2 minutes of my life reading such nonsense.

1/2 cent taxes being nothing? It's not the fact that we are being taxed, that part of it is fine with me. The problem is as simple as this. Walk into McDonalds order a Cheeseburger, leave, go home, open the bag, and pull out the chicken sandwhich they gave you instead. Are you hapy now? Is that what you paid for, what you work for, what you volunteer in your community assisting others for. I coach in this town, I teach, I tutor, I spend more time with other youth then i am able to with my own at times. I have no problem "giving back", hell, I'm not even from here for that matter. The fact is, be up front, if we are going to spend our hard earned money supporting programs in the community, great, just let us know which ones they are going to be, and then do it!!!!!

And by the way, the park not being money maker, go to school, learn something about Parks and Rec, and then repost. Yes you are right, it is a service for the community, but don't be fooled that it doesn't generate revenue. Just because it isn't run effectively and to the highest potential that it could, doesn't mean it is supposed to break even. Our Parks and Rec department could do just as other's around do, they just don't put the same effort and emphasis in making sure those that are running the programs, and I am not talking directly about the Director or the Board, but those running the programs as well.

-- Posted by BDawk4Prez on Wed, Feb 13, 2008, at 11:56 AM

Sorry I missed that Convention...think I was watching Lost that night. Ok so we have two people that have heard of him...what about the the other 299,999,998 million people in the U.S.

There are plenty of teens who have nothing in their past to be ashamed of unlike Javelin. I'm am just of the mindset that we don't need admitted druggers holding the highest office in our nation. There are plenty of people in the United States who have not done drugs that could run for president.

"How many adults would care to now be judged only by actions they took as teenagers? NOT ME! OBAMA in November!"

I would say that you would also be on my list of persons that would not be eligible to be elected to president. Hey didn't Bush have a cocaine drug history...look at where the heck the country is now because of him. Sure you could vote for Obama but then why take a chance that he has incurred the same brain damage that Bush suffered because of his drug use.

-- Posted by DAgates on Wed, Feb 13, 2008, at 9:12 AM

Senator Obama has been on the Democratic radar screen for many years now. I seem to recall that he was a keynote speaker at the Democratic National Convention 4 years ago and was very impressive. It is nice to see a fresh face rather than each party trotting out the same, tired, career politicians year after year! As to Senator Obama's admitted drug use as a teenager, I found it refreshing. If all candidates for political office were as equally candid, I would really be impressed. How many adults would care to now be judged only by actions they took as teenagers? NOT ME! OBAMA in November!

-- Posted by OldOwl on Wed, Feb 13, 2008, at 8:49 AM

"Is it just me but had anyone heard of Obama prior to the start of the election wheel process?? I had not!!" says DA gates.

obviously somebody hasn't quite been on the up and up. it's a good thing that you aren't old enough to vote yet.

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Wed, Feb 13, 2008, at 6:03 AM

I'm sorry I must interject but I don't think Michael Moore should be at the top of the list...the chinese should... after all they invented gun powder!

-- Posted by DAgates on Tue, Feb 12, 2008, at 10:26 PM

Is it just me but had anyone heard of Obama prior to the start of the election wheel process?? I had not!!

Also why is that we teach our kids that you'll never amount to squat if you do drugs...but we will allow someone with admitted drug past (wrote a book about it) to hold the highest office in our country?

If you had an employee applying for a job that had that record, would you hire them if you had a choice between someone who had not??

Have American morals/values fallen off the face of the planet?

-- Posted by DAgates on Tue, Feb 12, 2008, at 9:53 PM

...tiff-any...

-- Posted by niuges on Tue, Feb 12, 2008, at 9:13 PM

I have just started reading the comments so this is a few days after the some of the comments, but just to let you know Godsey is in Afganistan.

-- Posted by 4kids6gkids on Tue, Feb 12, 2008, at 7:53 PM

Every politician I know makes promises in an effort to be elected. Presidential candidates are no different. The reality of the situation is that in our form of government, without the cooperation of Congress, Presidential promises mean little. In my humble opinion,every other presidential candidate (both Dems and Reps), with the exception of Obama, are bad-mouthing the other side of the aisle and want to continue the partisanship. That being the case, with the Dems fighting the Reps and vice versa, nothing gets done and in the end, the people suffer. The Dems promised in the last election that they would ride into DC and get things changed. Tell me..what changed? The President's low approval rating looks great when you look at the even lower ratings for Congress. Obama preaches a message of working together for the good of our country. My message is quite simple: quite fighting like children in the schoolyard and get about the business of running this country! If you can't do it, you won't get my vote. Just my thought!

-- Posted by OldOwl on Tue, Feb 12, 2008, at 5:06 PM

To clarify, I'm not saying a person should base their vote on a person's name. I am simply saying that the person I overheard had a valid concern regarding Africa. I had not considered the similarity of names, and it is somewhat disconcerting, but certainly you have to look deeper than the candidates name. I try to be an educated voter and these comments have just made me aware that I need to educate myself a little further.....

As with every politician, Obama has made many promises that sound encouraging, but does he really mean what he says, or is he just getting the vote? I still haven't decided who I support - I vote for the candidate, not the party - and I feel that the conversation I overheard has given me a few things to consider. Because of this, I will have to dig deeper to make my own determination regarding his stance and everyone else's.

-- Posted by outsidelookin'in on Tue, Feb 12, 2008, at 3:31 PM

It is certainly a shame when so-called "educated voters" base their vote on the candidate's last name. Those who suggest that they would never vote for a candidate whose name is similar to those who were involved in the 9/11 tragedy would do well to remember the 1995 terrorist acts at the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City committed by two guys named "McVeigh" and "Nichols." I, too, voted for Bush during the last two elections. In hindsight, I was wrong and wish I could take those votes back! Bush sold the conservatives a "bill of goods" and then sold us all down the river to big oil and Haliburton! If he was such a good president, then why have all of the GOP candidates taken such effort to distance themselves from him? Now he gives us the largest (deficit) budget in history! He wants to cut spending on social programs and spend more on the war in Iraq. Reminds me of a saying that it would be nice if, for a change, our schools were given all the money they needed by the government to educate our children and the Pentagon was forced to have bake sales at Wal-Mart to raise money to buy missiles to kill other people! Now is the time to vote for a change! Obama in 08. YES, WE CAN!

-- Posted by OldOwl on Tue, Feb 12, 2008, at 3:05 PM

Not at all! I think it's something to think about.........if you think it's off base, that's okay. You're entitled to your opinion.

-- Posted by outsidelookin'in on Tue, Feb 12, 2008, at 1:36 PM

hey, everybody. i hope outsidelookin'in's last post was satirical in nature.

am i right? wow

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Tue, Feb 12, 2008, at 1:25 PM

I overheard someone talking about the fact that Obama wants to bring the troops home. Their speculation was that with the unrest in Africa, he is probably wanting to get them home so that he can send them to Africa. Seeing as how Oprah is endorsing him so heavily, and knowing how much she is involved in Africa, I thought it could be a valid speculation. I haven't seen it directly addressed, but would like to.

Another thing to think about, how comfortable are you in electing a president whose name so closely resembles those of the terrorists that have caused so many American lives to be lost. Barack Hussein Obama (Osama). Makes me a little leary. Afterall, can you imagine back in the 1940's electing a president with the name Hitler anywhere in his name? Think about it............

-- Posted by outsidelookin'in on Tue, Feb 12, 2008, at 1:18 PM

Obama in 08! For the first time in many, many years, a presidential candidate is exciting and that excitement is motivating an otherwise apathetic electorate. Obama is also giving this country the opportunity to make history in a positive sense and perhaps undue the negative PR generated over the last 8 years by the Bush administration. Obama and millions of others in this country, including me, say "YES, WE CAN!" Don't let history pass us by!

-- Posted by OldOwl on Tue, Feb 12, 2008, at 11:34 AM

Just a short bit about myspace and any other chat services....how in the heck can you whine about being bullied on one of these chat forums when you have to invite the person to the chat or give them permission to chat with you. I mean really if you don't want the lion to eat your leg then don't jump into the cage or unlock the door to the cage. That's like saying I don't know why my car got jacked when you left the keys in the ignition with the engine running in the ghetto. Get a grip people, stop depending on someone else to protect you and pull your freakin ostrich sized mellon out of the sand.

-- Posted by Superwiner on Mon, Feb 11, 2008, at 9:45 PM

How is it that someone who is under 30 can make a claim they are a dr. and a lt. gen.? hmmmm....something smells a little rotten in Denmark...oops I mean Marshall...oh by the way your middle name is spelled incorrectly....you might use the bible to look up the correct spelling...

-- Posted by niuges on Mon, Feb 11, 2008, at 7:56 PM

Quietriver,

I agree with some of the things you posted. I have children in Bueker who have been bullied in the past. Not only on the school bus and at school but the other day I found out that its going on online also. The student who is doing most of the bullying has online accounts on sites such as MySpace and MyYearbook. As a parent of teenagers, I monitor what my children do on the computer. I will not hesitate to unplug it or take it away if I don't like what they are doing or the sites they are visiting. The parents of this bully don't do that. Some of the times I have seen this child interact with the parents, the child is screaming and pushing the parent around. It is a sad day when children rule their parents. I dare my children to act like that.

-- Posted by BMSmom on Mon, Feb 11, 2008, at 5:59 PM

this school system we have is something else, i have never before seen a time when a assit principal would not help a childern when she is need help from being bully by another student in the system , i thought we had a bulling protect for all kids in the school system. One of these days something bad is going to happen in this school system, before the teacher know it, they think marshall is a samll town and nothing will happen to the sutdent in the school. But i am here to tell you it will happen one of theses days, yes i have grandkids and had three kids who went to this school system. One of grandkids is being bully at the high school nothing is being done about it , i am very worried about this problem. A very concern grandmother

-- Posted by quietriver on Mon, Feb 11, 2008, at 3:24 PM

JJ GATES likes to blog because, he knows knowbody will listen if he speaks. RAVE ON HORSE**** THE BIRDS WILL SPREAD YOU.

-- Posted by yomomma on Mon, Feb 11, 2008, at 11:02 AM

JJ GATES likes to blog because, he knows knowbody will listen if he speaks. RAVE ON HORSE**** THE BIRDS WILL SPREAD YOU.

-- Posted by yomomma on Mon, Feb 11, 2008, at 11:01 AM

Let me clarify too, by saying i think Jeff has done a good job through his tenure as well. my hope is, as with Cheetah, the board begins to make more feasible decisions with the money and reward those who pay back to the community.

-- Posted by BDawk4Prez on Fri, Feb 8, 2008, at 1:13 PM

The only thing the skate park is likely to generate is a lawsuit when some kid with no protection pops his head open like a ripe melon.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Feb 8, 2008, at 12:33 PM

Good submission Mizzou, thanks for hanging around and bringing the kids. I think the big issue is the lack of upgrades for the items that have been mentioned to be upgraded and are inadequate but nothing is being done. the revenue created by the skatepark could bever match revenue brought in from a 3 day weekend softball tourney. Hotel stays, concessions, other businesses reaping rewards as well. To do these things takes effort, and a knowledgable staff. Hey Godsey, how does softball programs look to plan out this year??? Summer and no fall again? What a waist of opportunity, but I am sure the Aquatics Program will have full and undivided attention, go figure!!!

-- Posted by BDawk4Prez on Fri, Feb 8, 2008, at 11:00 AM

I lived in Marshall for a short time growing up. I always liked the town. I've brought my family over to Marshall several times so that my kids can have a good time at the skateboarding park. Even though we have our own state of the art skateboard facility in Columbia, my kids really enjoy the one in Marshall. I'm a golfer and playing different golf courses is like going to different skate parks, at least that is what my kids tell me. I guess it's not like a tennis court, basketball court, etc. where they are made to the same dimensions all over the world. I have never stayed in a hotel, or have even known about this hotel tax, but we do make it over to the pizza shop and Wal-Mart nearly every time we are in town. I think most would be surprised how many families do come from out of town and spend their money in your community because of the skate park. I realize that we don't spend much money at the skate park, but my main reason nowadays to come to Marshall is to bring my kids for skateboarding when the weather is nice. I don't know too much about this whole park and hotel tax, but this was just an outsider's 2 cents about your skate park.

-- Posted by Mizzou Pride on Fri, Feb 8, 2008, at 10:48 AM

Very nicely put Cheetah, two thumbs up!!! It would be nice to see some foolow through that has been promised for years and years, but still no noticable changes. Unless you count the changes made for the college teams to play on the less then adequate fields as well. I understand that you must have resources available to be able to accomodate, so GO FIND THE RESOURCES. Where is the complex? I'll tell you, it's right between when a pig flies and hell freezes over. Somewhere right there in the middle. maybe we can put in another drive thru burger barn or spend more money on Christmas in the Park decorations only to close the park at dark??? Sometimes I question the logic that gets used. if you want to see it done at least close to right, look 30 miles south at a town called Sedalia and take a look at their Parks and Rec programs, unbelievable. Softball 4 nights a week, full to capacity, concession stands, quality officials that even get out from behind home plate to make a call, imagine that. Mens, coeds, womens, church, you name it, they have it. The big reason, they take pride in their programs unlike the junk that gets thrown on here at the last minute. cancellations, seasons postponed, with no calls to coaches, last minute crap over and over, year after year. I just want to know what exactly the money is going to, other then paychecks for park personnel. Challenge me, because obviously I don't understand. maybe i am just an outsider looking in, but show me where the money is, and what kind of plans we have for improvement. Softball leagues, tournaments, etc. bring in money and people, if done right. What other programs do as much as it has the potential to do? Definitly not a cement skate park covered in grafitti, unless there are plans of tony hawk showing up sometime soon. Show me the amount of money that thing has generated the past year. We need answers, we deserve them.

-- Posted by BDawk4Prez on Fri, Feb 8, 2008, at 9:56 AM

650,000 a year generated and a full price softball league with half-price accomodations. For some, we have been faithful to the city of Marshall and continued to play year after year, season after season on less then mediocre ball fields. What type of revenue does the skate park bring in? It would be nice to see something done for the adults of this town who are paying the taxes and not reeping any of the rewards. There is no question that this will never be a baseball town, with the lack of resources that these kids have to play with.

-- Posted by BDawk4Prez on Fri, Feb 8, 2008, at 7:43 AM

Thanks oneofmany.....I know how hard my husband works and it is nice to know there are "some" people out there who are intelligent enough to recognize the time and effort.

-- Posted by teachers_wife on Fri, Feb 8, 2008, at 7:22 AM

Here's the deal. I know the career ladder money they get doesn't begin to reimburse them for the expenses they have in their classrooms. They spend hundreds of dollars a year on supplies for their classrooms that are never reimbursed. These are instructional materials they feel will enhance their curriculum for YOUR children. Many teachers provide all the school supplies for their students, pay for lunch money and field trips, and even buy clothing and coats for their kids. They are required to further their education at their own expense and many work seven days a week and then take work home as well. If you compare their salaries to the amount of education they have, they aren't even in the ball park. And, as for the $45,000 salary, I've known teachers who retired and didn't make that much! Teachers shouldn't ever have to defend themselves in terms of career ladder. Maybe a few abuse it, but most of them have met the requirements in the first few months of each school year. At any rate, if your comeback is they should get out if they don't like it, you're missing the point. We need to retain intelligent teachers who care about our kids. With the deterioration of our society, believe me, it's more and more challenging to teach today. If you divide that salary into all the jobs teachers perform......counselor, nurse, psychologist, social worker, care giver...the list goes on. You're getting a bargain! It's not the '50's any more. The kids in 21st century classrooms have a lot of baggage. (That's a whole other issue.) Thanks to all of the intelligent teachers who stick with it. Apparently, it's a thankless job!

-- Posted by oneofmany on Fri, Feb 8, 2008, at 12:23 AM

First Rudy, now Mitt. That leaves McCain, Huckabee and Paul for now for the GOP. Are the dems going to take the White House in November? Obama and I say "YES, WE CAN"

-- Posted by OldOwl on Thu, Feb 7, 2008, at 1:07 PM

I'm sorry my split personality has gone bonkers again. I'm not actually going to waste my vote on McCain when we finally have a democratic majority. For once I feel that we might actually accomplish something in the next four years with a democratic president.

-- Posted by DAgates on Wed, Feb 6, 2008, at 7:05 PM

YES WE CAN!

-- Posted by OldOwl on Wed, Feb 6, 2008, at 5:47 PM

Just say "no" to Hill-Billy Clinton!

-- Posted by OldOwl on Wed, Feb 6, 2008, at 4:59 PM

Obama Bin Laden!!!

-- Posted by onpoint on Wed, Feb 6, 2008, at 2:45 PM

OBAMA!!!

-- Posted by OldOwl on Wed, Feb 6, 2008, at 12:53 PM

no

-- Posted by niuges on Wed, Feb 6, 2008, at 12:39 PM

If we are the only intelligent life in the universe, at least there's a finite number of idiots.

-- Posted by niuges on Tue, Feb 5, 2008, at 8:20 PM

i would like to give a thank you to jeff stubblefield. when he started the park situation wasnt looking to good. we point alot of fingers (not me really, just cheetah) when something goes wrong, and hold back praise when things run smooth. thank you jeff..... i just wish your golf game could improve as much as the park you direct :)

-- Posted by JJGates on Thu, Jan 31, 2008, at 5:23 PM

jj, looks to me like this is a at a boy for Jeff. Don't the teacchers that you are having all the trouble acknowledging the rightfull due at least the same respect. Oh by the way 442 CAMS Tactical Air Command.

-- Posted by serviceman on Tue, Feb 5, 2008, at 6:24 PM

When the primaries are over,several villages will get their idiots back.

-- Posted by SpeedwaySue on Tue, Feb 5, 2008, at 5:32 PM

how can a true American/republican vote for McCain. J. McCain, J. Lieberman, and J. Aull could just start their own party and call themselves the Fence Sitting Party.

-- Posted by Eff Ess on Tue, Feb 5, 2008, at 12:41 PM

we should have a poll of who we voted for today. I voted for JJ.

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Tue, Feb 5, 2008, at 12:31 PM

It's not surprising that so many people keep on referencing drugs and drug use since "Drug arrests" are "up".

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Tue, Feb 5, 2008, at 5:29 AM

Surely everyone realizes that HE who laughs last...thinks slowest!

"hahahahahahahahahaha........hahahahahahahahaha.... then what is hahahahaha.... okay okay let me gather myself hahahahhahahaha but uh hahahaha okay okay hahahahaha" JJ

-- Posted by niuges on Mon, Feb 4, 2008, at 10:12 PM

So what are you saying Cat Lover, that teachers are overpaid? If you are so concerned with that, maybe you should run for school board and get that changed!

-- Posted by onpoint on Mon, Feb 4, 2008, at 10:08 PM

We are one in the same, everytime JJGates has a "Crumb Bass" post (99.99% of the time), it's me trying to break out of his quad personality. I am hoping to break free so JJ can post something that doesn't read like a "Crumb Bass" who has been posting after hitting the bong with an LSD filter. I am sure that when his mind dampening post disappear I will as well.

-- Posted by DAgates on Mon, Feb 4, 2008, at 10:03 PM

Hey DA Gates. I want to get this straight. So are you saying that you are the "Crumb Bass" of the Gates?

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Mon, Feb 4, 2008, at 9:34 PM

Whew, Eff Ess, you were so freakin close on those initials. Let me give you a hint it ryhmes with Crumb Bass!!

-- Posted by DAgates on Mon, Feb 4, 2008, at 9:16 PM

you must have JJ on the mind. hehe

-- Posted by Eff Ess on Mon, Feb 4, 2008, at 8:02 PM

Oops! I meant to write bj and June 2 not jj. Sorry JJ

-- Posted by Cat Lover on Mon, Feb 4, 2008, at 7:50 PM

JJ Gates does have some interesting views, to say the least. Now with JJ's alter ego DA "District Attorney" Gates, the Gates will surely keep the off the wall comments (and spellling) coming our way. He sure does a good job at riling us up. Now there seems to be a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde complex (a la JJ and DA) to keep our daily thirst for satire quenched. Also, if anybody is keeping track, Spiderman is my hero.

-- Posted by Eff Ess on Mon, Feb 4, 2008, at 7:50 PM

jj and June 2,

Get Real!!! Many teachers salaries are up to 43,000 if they have been here awhile. And that is for 9 months teaching not 12 months like the rest of us working people. Then they get the chance for the $5000 career ladder, they also get 10 paid sick leave days a year, 2 of those can be used for 2 paid personal days and then their health insurance is paid for by the district and then they have a $10,000 life insurance policy paid for by the district. If they decide to work extra summer school they get an extra month's pay. Pretty good set up if you ask me.

-- Posted by Cat Lover on Mon, Feb 4, 2008, at 7:48 PM

Hey alterego could you go through the web link below and tell me which ones got paid so I can take them off my "Heroe List"

http://www.adherents.com/people/100_hero...

Also give me a list of all the so called "War Heroes" that were getting paid by the Army, Marines, Navy, and Air Force, so I can take them off the list. And better throw in all those sports heroes that freaking kids idiolize, they are definitely overpaid and shouldn't be on any "Heroe List".

Well I guess that just leaves comic book characters and you JJ.

Hey does anyone know what "DA" stands for besides JJ.

-- Posted by DAgates on Mon, Feb 4, 2008, at 6:35 PM

Hey, JJ, I guess since you gave Stubblefield the pat on the back for what he has done he is going to have to forfiet all of the checks he has received for doing his JOB or is that different.

-- Posted by serviceman on Mon, Feb 4, 2008, at 6:17 PM

Ooooh Look at me!! I'm the Waterboy!!

-- Posted by DAgates on Mon, Feb 4, 2008, at 5:20 PM

Ok, this is not even good reading. Let some air out of the ego and get a grip.

-- Posted by nomad on Mon, Feb 4, 2008, at 3:50 PM

....ditto june....enough said...

-- Posted by teachers_wife on Mon, Feb 4, 2008, at 3:46 PM

Dear SAMS:

I would like to thank you for the comment on my age. As for me making it to the "Real World"...well, I entered it years ago.

My husband nor I come for fame or fortune. We just come from good honest families that work hard for what they have.

My husband throughly enjoys his job, and the kids he teaches!!

And as for this amount of $5000 that is going around...that is only after year 7. Year 5 & 6 get you $1500 on the career lader and years 1-4 get you nothing on it. I'm sure that most of the teachers would be glad to forgo the career lader for overtime instead.

OH, how much comes out of your take home pay for your job??

-- Posted by JUNE2 on Mon, Feb 4, 2008, at 3:37 PM

I'm sure JJ that you don't need any one to say "Thank You" or "pat you on the back", your reward come from just being you!

-- Posted by bj on Mon, Feb 4, 2008, at 3:24 PM

Wow! It is apparent that some people of our community have no idea what actually goes on before, during and after school for the students in the Marshall School District. I believe that paying a qualified educator to tutor students before and after school is money well spent. I believe that paying a qualified educator to supervise students on extracurricular activities (DECA, FCA, Academic Team, Debate) is money well spent. I also believe that the majority of teachers take their job, duties, and Career Ladder very seriously. They love what they do and are good at it.

A teacher's contract usually goes from 7:30 am to 3:15 p.m. Come to a school at 4 pm and see how many are still working. Come to the schools on a weekend and see how many are working. We don't get overtime like most jobs.

Maybe those who rise each day to spend all your energy on being negative you could just once put yourself in someone else's shoes. I know it will be difficult to step out of your perfect world, but give it a try.

-- Posted by bj on Mon, Feb 4, 2008, at 3:06 PM

June2,

You must be young. Welcome to the "real world."

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Mon, Feb 4, 2008, at 2:35 PM

As a spouse to a teacher I can assure you that the one I am married to doesn't have to exagerate the hours spent to collect any extra pay. He doesn't whine about it, nor does he expect a check or pat on the back. But, I however am a little less understanding!! YOU explain to his kids that he can't make the planned family night because he is with his students again....not to mention this would be a Saturday which is not on normal school hours. Saturdays, and even Sundays away from his family for the students is a regular in our house. Even meetings after school at night are pretty normal. Non of this is during the hours of the job that he was hired for. And, if a student calls the house, or his cell phone, he drops everything to talk to that student. So, before judging every teacher by the apparently dishonest ones you come in contact with, give those who are teaching for the betterment of the kids a break. With or without that career ladder my husband would teach, but it does help to offset the costs that WE incure while doing extra for those very students that you want it spent on!!

-- Posted by JUNE2 on Mon, Feb 4, 2008, at 2:22 PM

"i have a hard time giving thanks to any one who does a job and gets paid for it! ITS THEIR JOB! you either get thanks/pats on the back or a pay check....... choose one or choose an easier job!"

How about if if they are like a firefighter and they go into a building that has been hit by an airplane to save your hide. Do they deserve any extra thanks or is the paycheck enough.

-- Posted by Superwiner on Mon, Feb 4, 2008, at 1:47 PM

Career ladder is a joke! I have heard teachers talk about how they exxagerate their duties, etc. in order to "make their hours". I think the state and the school district need to wise up and use this money for our students. Everyone knows what they are going to be paid when they take a job. If their work ethic causes them to go above and beyond, as a lot of teachers do, then they should just thank their parents for raisin' em right!

-- Posted by outsidelookin'in on Mon, Feb 4, 2008, at 1:40 PM

Cat lover,

Perhaps you should do your research regarding Career Ladder. Not only is Career Ladder an opportunity a teacher has earned by completing various requirements, it requires a large amount of documentation. This is not a free gift that the state in all it's generocity gives teachers for teaching YOUR children. Teachers spend much of their spare time devoted to making lesson plans, grading papers, tutoring, and many other non-paying duties. Often times their families take the back seat to yours. Many of these students could care less about school, are disrespectful, cannot accept responsibility for their own actions, and are oblivious to the sacrifices their teachers make on a DAILY basis. When an issue does arise getting parental support these days is virutally impossible!

So, after 11 years of teaching, paying for all the required continued education courses to keep my teaching certificate, mounds of paperwork and documentation, hours of preparation for daily lessons and activities, paying for paper, pencils, and other supplies out of my own pocket for my students, the constant scrutiny from the state to raise MAP scores, and IF I turn in all documentation correctly and on time I get a $5000.00 check(before taxes) for Career Ladder, I believe I DESERVE IT!

The next time you see a teacher tell them they are appreciated. Wave when you drive by and see a teacher making sure your children are not running out in the street while waiting for a bus. Teach your children to be respectful towards authority and say "Please" and "Thank You." The world would be a better place!

-- Posted by bj on Mon, Feb 4, 2008, at 12:05 PM

For all of you that think teachers have it so good you are wrong!!!!!!!! You people don't have to bring your work home. Teachers always have the State looking over their shoulder, you have one boss. Teachers have the Federal Government looking over their shoulder. I think that you should be happy that there are people willing to teach kids.

Some of you need a job!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-- Posted by duke2007 on Mon, Feb 4, 2008, at 8:56 AM

"………… Was just looking at the poll results questioning how the Board handled the situation. Results say it should have taken care of privately………"

I think the poll questions are for more amusement than for scientific purposes. Surely there are enough tech savvy people out there that now that one person can vote multiple times to skew the results.

The no tech way is to go somewhere where there are multiple computers with internet access, pull up the poll site and vote on each computer. If say you had a computer lab with 40 computers and went in after normal hours and voted 7 days in row how many votes would you have. That would be a no tech knowledge approach, for anyone else with a little computer know how you could vote from the same computer multiple times in the span of a few minutes. Surely everyone realizes that polls are not indicative of what the public is really thinking, remember Clinton/Obama poll blunder of a couple of weeks ago.

-- Posted by Superwiner on Sun, Feb 3, 2008, at 11:30 AM

JJ you are right on! We need to concentrate more on our student's needs. Teachers have a lot more benefits that people realize. Take $5000.00 Career Ladder. Put on a program you get Career Hr. credit.

-- Posted by Cat Lover on Sun, Feb 3, 2008, at 9:23 AM

Here I go stirring the Gordon pot. Was just looking at the poll results questioning how the Board handled the situation. Results say it should have taken care of privately, go figure Gordon ask for the hearing and the Board gets the bad publicity. I suppose the private meetings they had before the hearing just didn't work for Dr. Gordon. Oh yeh they did it toke the heat off of him and put it on the Board.

-- Posted by serviceman on Sat, Feb 2, 2008, at 7:57 PM

Ok, explain something to me. I just finished reading the article on the importance of dental care for children and we don't even offer our teachers dental insurance. We don't even offer them the opportunity to purchase dental insurance for themselves or their families? Is there something wrong with this picture? I think so.

-- Posted by teachers_wife on Sat, Feb 2, 2008, at 6:06 PM
Response by Kathy Fairchild/Staff writer:
While many employers in this area offer dental insurance to their employees, there are many more who do not. And that, too, is part of the problem. Even if insurance was offered, however, the shortage of dentists in general still exists. Given the cost of the training and the cost of setting up an office, that's not surprising, but it creates a huge problem nationwide that isn't being addressed adequately. It's particularly bad in rural areas - I found it very surprising, though, that a state like Nebraska, with only a few large cities, has only 2% of its population underserved, while Missouri's underserved population is 13 times that. It makes me wonder what they're doing in Nebraska that Missouri isn't.

I just finished reading your article on the ceramic and photography teacher from Valley who visited the High School Art class. I am delighted to see Valley and our High School getting together and using the wonderful tools they have.....their teachers! The arts can have such a wonderful effect on our children and I'm happy to see our high school doing wonderful things and our college supporting those efforts. I hope to see more articles about the high school arts and college arts happenings. The arts are alive in Marshall Missouri.

-- Posted by Dr. House on Fri, Feb 1, 2008, at 7:45 PM

JJ, thanks for the "wise man" post. I needed a nice chuckle to forget about my lot in life.

also, I haven't made it outside since this morning. is it snowing?

-- Posted by Eff Ess on Thu, Jan 31, 2008, at 1:48 PM

Well,

Not only do you have the voices in your head to listen to & the family hooting in the background, now...you have the village idiots- me included.

HAHAHA

-- Posted by nomad on Thu, Jan 31, 2008, at 1:31 PM

bong water? now you accuse me of being associated with drugs and/or drug paraphernalia?

i think we've seen enough vague accusations.

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Thu, Jan 31, 2008, at 1:03 PM

dumb?

your last post appears to be a bias motivated attack because of my association with Lord Xenu and/or Scientology. I am feeling very lightheaded since reading the last post. I am emotionally distressed. I feel victimized.

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Thu, Jan 31, 2008, at 12:58 PM

maybe you are just feeling parts of his souls from some of his former lives. it's probably just time for you to self audit.

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Thu, Jan 31, 2008, at 12:23 PM

Xenu is a former Lord of our galaxy. If one doesn't think that this is pertinent to our world and our community, then their galactic view is skewed.

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Thu, Jan 31, 2008, at 10:22 AM

JJ, I hope you stick around, as a group we are what make this thing work...don't let the haters get to you.

On another note, I just can't let this go, I don't know why but I'm going to throw this out there for discussion. Does anyone remember the impeachment of Marshall Mayor Earhart and the Civil Law Suit he won against the City of Marshall. Their are alot of similarties in the mistakes that were made by the Marshall City Council then and the the mistakes that were made by Marshall School Board and the firing of Dr. Gordon. I'm really not trying to stir the pot, I just like routin for the underdog. I'm pretty sure our Marshall Democrat News has all this on archives or the Public Libary. If there are any old timers out there I'd would enjoy your comments concerning that time period?

-- Posted by alphadog on Wed, Jan 30, 2008, at 9:37 PM

I'm a regular reader of the marshallnews.com and I think it is great the Marshall Democrat-News ("MDN") has such an interactive site where readers can post comments on stories. Anyway, I just want to say thank you to whoever, or whatever, posts as JJGates. You really give me a reason to check this site several times a day. And now you've pulled me away from the wall to join in this dance by signing up for an account. I hope you do keep posting, maybe the MDN will give you your own blog.

Cheers, Eff Ess.

-- Posted by Eff Ess on Wed, Jan 30, 2008, at 2:22 PM

I for one hope JJ does not leave. I appreciate his sideways take on things, and many times he provides the chuckle I need. I've not posted before, but am a regular reader - especially since the Gordon thing - nuf said. I enjoy reading everyones opinion, and those that don't agree with a posting, before dismissing it, might try to see the view from another angle. It can be pretty interesting if you try it!

-- Posted by outsidelookin'in on Wed, Jan 30, 2008, at 12:38 PM

Hey JJ,

Who care what these other (real nameless) people are expressing? I like and don't like what many subscribers have typed.

I enjoy reading what your opinion and everyone else's opinions are. Even if I don't agree w/ some. We are all having good fun and the topics are in juction with what is effecting us in the norm and not so normal way.

I'd like to think I am an expert in being a good procrastinator. Which is part of AADD. I like to read back on what I have expressed and see who has taken interest on something I have commented on.

If you don't like to read what I write... DON'T READ IT. If you don't like what JJ or Superwiner or Smokin' Cheetah or Purpuless is typing DON'T READ IT!

-- Posted by nomad on Wed, Jan 30, 2008, at 11:43 AM

Dear fellow readers of the online edition of the Marshall Democrat News and the Speak Out forum,

If JJ really has moved on (which I hope he has not, because I can only tell he is very passionate and concerned about the Marshall community(and freeze shops)) we must remember him for what he truly is. A Beethoven of our time. His masterpieces will not be forgotten and will certainly ring true for future generations.

JJ, if you ever return, know that you will always be welcomed in Marshall with an armies of open arms. Wherever life takes you, I wish you luck.

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Wed, Jan 30, 2008, at 10:39 AM

The Speak Out forum is certainly an nice way to exchange ideas and opinions. I just hope folks like JJ Gates will use in a productive fashion rather than to rant and see their name posted.

-- Posted by Muffin on Tue, Jan 29, 2008, at 6:06 PM

Tell'em REX

-- Posted by yomomma on Tue, Jan 29, 2008, at 2:17 PM

Haze...I think I've made my position clear in my previous posts. If you hit the "View All Comments" button you are more than welcome to read all my posts. I believe I clearly give the rationale for my opinions. I don't think you have posted your rationale for your beliefs though? I haven't seen any evidence for either side, but I did hear the testimony and heard several documents entered into evidence that evening.

You know you have got me to thinking...I frequently read about criminal trials where people have been found guilty of crimes and are sentenced to prison. I appreciate you opening my eyes...I will no longer assume that those people are guilty as I never personally get to see the evidence. Forget taking the word of the jury, the prosecutor, and the judge...I think you are right everyone has been framed. Thanks for your eye opening revelation.

-- Posted by Superwiner on Mon, Jan 28, 2008, at 8:41 PM

Mr. Crump,

Thank you, for the update on the Ethic complaint filed on Dr. Gordon in regard to his dealing with the YMCA. Nice to see this rumor BUSTED!

-- Posted by nomad on Mon, Jan 28, 2008, at 5:49 PM

WHAT??

-- Posted by nomad on Mon, Jan 28, 2008, at 5:41 PM

viva la JJ

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Mon, Jan 28, 2008, at 1:39 PM

In my opinion, Barton is the problem. As I see it, everything was going just fine until he was elected Board President. Get rid of him and things should be just fine on the Board. Again, just my opinion.

-- Posted by OldOwl on Mon, Jan 28, 2008, at 9:07 AM

MARSHALL'S NEWEST BLOG!

SPEAK YOUR MIND!

FREE AND UNCENSORED!

TAKE THE POLL...WOULD YOU VOTE FOR DR. GORDON FOR SCHOOL BOARD?

http://marshallsvoice.blogspot.com/

-- Posted by Pam Anderson on Mon, Jan 28, 2008, at 12:21 AM

Haze, You are so right. It is time to bring new blood to the Board. My group plans to vote for Bell, Stouffer and Blakely. If all of the supporters of the Board had been at the meeting they would feel like we do.

-- Posted by Cat Lover on Sun, Jan 27, 2008, at 2:22 PM

I agree with catlover. It is a time to make a change to the school board. At the "due proces hearing". I saw two one act plays. Act 1 "A Class Act" starring Dr. Gordon. Act 2 " A Clown Act" starring the school board. SW the only way, no matter which side of the issue you stand on, that you could possibly believe that the school board's behavior was professional is a. you weren't there b. you are related to one or c. you were on the stage. I think it's time for Mr. Bell, Ms. Stouffer, and Mr. Blakley to give it a try.They have my vote. Please don't tell us how the school board serves the community and does so much work for the schools for free. Lots and Lots of people in Marshall serve on commitees, non-profit boards, as well as create programs that benefit the community for FREE. Our own mayor the Honorable Connie Latimer is not paid for all the services she does for the city. Change is not a bad thing it's an opprotunity. Remember "If you don't stand for something you'll fall for anything." I think it's time to stop falling. Have you seen the evidence against Dr. Gordon? Or has someone just "said so".

-- Posted by Haze on Sun, Jan 27, 2008, at 11:41 AM

The Courthouse is very significant to me, I grew up in Marshall and have a history with the courthouse, my brother Rodger & I couln't wait for the NEW elevator to work, musta road it a dozen times!!

Saw Santa there!!

Do they still have rides in the sleigh ??

We spent alot of time in the clock tower(snuck in) even had to go to court a few times-well alot, thanx to WALLY!!

I could go on & on, but just wanted say I would glady send a donation!!

Allen Zan Chapman (Class of '74)

-- Posted by azchapman on Sat, Jan 26, 2008, at 10:19 AM

NO MORE TAXES!!

The extra money the Marshall Tourism Commission has collected could and should be transfered to revitalize the Courthouse. We do have visitors who tour the grand Courthouse and square.

I'm broke enough!

Response by Eric Crump/Editor:

Point taken. However, the room tax used by the Tourism Commission to fund grants wouldn't be enough to finance the courthouse renovation project, much less the grant leftovers. It wouldn't even make much of a dent. Which is a shame, because I think you *could* make a case that the courthouse is a tourist attraction -- it's a grand old building with history value. So I think if we want the courthouse to last long and look fine, we're just going to have to pay to get it done.

-- Posted by nomad on Fri, Jan 25, 2008, at 10:28 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Someone sent me email (anonymously, for some odd reason) pointing out that the room tax that funds tourism grants is not generally paid by local people since it's only paid by those who stay in local hotels and motels. That's true.

I understood nomad's 'no more taxes' statement to refer to the sales tax that voters will have a chance to consider on the April ballot. If there was enough money coming in from the room tax, we might not need a new sales tax. There isn't, so we do (if we want to keep the courthouse properly maintained, anyway).

Actually I think if what you say is true it will surface with the news media. I am positive that if information that you say exist it will be reported by our Marshall Democrat. I think this is just a little propaganda being aired to stir the pot.

-- Posted by Superwiner on Fri, Jan 25, 2008, at 9:18 AM

SW and AB please don't dismiss everything so quick. The ethics commission has two Dept. sides maybe you were only looking on the campaign Finance side? As for the phone number you can call the toll free MO State # and from the phone listings #'s you can obtain the Ethics Commission #. This took me some time to accomplish so I'm sorry that I'm not going to just plop it in your lap. As I stated this is public information and it is out there, you just gotta know where to look. I emplore anyone who cares about this situation either way to do some hunting around and you to will be surprised.

-- Posted by alphadog on Fri, Jan 25, 2008, at 8:19 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
I didn't have much luck, either, finding information on the ethics commission's website about a complaint against Dr. Gordon. But he acknowledge that someone -- he said it was a school board member -- had filed a conflict of interest complaint with the commission regarding his roles as superintendent and member of the YMCA board of directors.

Dr. Gordon sent me a copy of the letter he received from the director of the ethics commission reporting its findings, indicating the commission found no conflict of interest:

Dear Mr. Gordon;

Please be advised that at the January 16, 2008, meeting of the Missouri Ethics Commission, the complaint filed against you was considered. The complaint alleged use of confidential information for personal gain, Section 105.452.2 RSMo; use of confidential information for someone else's gain, Section 105.452.3 and service performed for consideration with attempt to influence, Section 105.454 RSMo.

No evidence was obtained that supported these allegations. Therefore, the Commission voted to dismiss this case as the allegations were unsubstantiated.

Sincerely,

R.F. Connor

Executive Director

Hold on let me get a pencil...ok go ahead what's that phone number.

-- Posted by Superwiner on Fri, Jan 25, 2008, at 8:00 AM

Exactly, I was being sarcastic about Alphadogs post. I put the link on my post to prove that there was not any compliant filed. You will notice Alphadog has not put any links up to prove his point or even responded.

-- Posted by Superwiner on Fri, Jan 25, 2008, at 7:57 AM

Call the ethics commission, they will give you the information you are trying to find. It's there and it is public record

-- Posted by alphadog on Fri, Jan 25, 2008, at 7:56 AM

http://www.moethics.mo.gov/Ethics/Genera...

there really isn't anything said there.. so i don't know where the Conclusion of Facts on the Ethics website is.. I searched that site for a good 20 minutes and didn't find it... what is the link to it? if you don't have the link the only thing i can say is that you are making things up. i learned in middle school that if you couldn't back up your statement with real proof, or a hard copy of the information, that it is heresay and therefore has no value what so ever. forgive me if i am wrong but you should be putting the direct link to these conclusions up here so that everyone can see them. i don't know if the link that i put up will go directly to what i found but at least i posted what i found.

-- Posted by AnnaBell on Fri, Jan 25, 2008, at 7:17 AM

Gordon hid a "bad touch" coach at his last place by sending the coach to another school. So why couldn't he hid something here?

-- Posted by JohnnyD on Fri, Jan 25, 2008, at 12:56 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Just a clarification: The claim above is an interpretation.

Dr. Gordon was assistant superintendent at Pleasant Hill at the time Russell Hough left to join the staff at Warrensburg High School. The lawsuit filed against Hough and several Warrensburg district administrator mentions Dr. Gordon but does not claim he "hid a bad touch coach."

The suit notes that there was a complaint lodged against Hough at Pleasant Hill. It notes that Dr. Gordon was the assistant superintendent at the time. It notes that Dr. Gordon's brother, Dan, was principal at Warrensburg. It says that a Pleasant Hill administrator contacted the Warrensburg district and "suggested ... that [Hough] might be available for a faculty position and coaching." It does not say the administrator was Dr. Gordon.

I'm not saying he was or wasn't, because all I have on the record is what I've read in the suit and in news accounts of the situation. I just wanted to be sure everyone knows that it requires an assumption on the part of the reader or knowledge that isn't currently available in the public record to come to the conclusion above.

I want to assure everyone reading these posts that this is my last post about the Gordon affair (promise). I want to clearly draw my line in the sand and say that I am in complete support of each of the Marshall School Board Members. I think the way in which the board conducted themselves during this period was done professionally and to the best of their ability. I think that each and every one of the board members from the time they were elected to the present have never had anything but pure kind-hearted interest in the well-being of the children of our district. I have not heard a negative comment prior to this budget incident that would indicate anything to the contrary. I have read posts about smearing good names and reputations on Gordon's name but I think the negative posts against the board are just as contentious. I know each of the board members, some better than others, but know that each of them have served our community in various capacities without thought of monetary gain (they do it for free) or any other reward.

I went to the "due process hearing" and heard the evidence presented and strongly believe that based on the evidence presented they acted accordingly. I would hope that all those that have been following this ordeal have based their decisions on the facts presented and nothing else. I would also hope that in the upcoming school board elections you vote based on past performance of the board members. Many have been on the board for several years and have given a lot to this district. If you disapprove of how this incident was handled, I hope you would not base your vote on one incident but on the whole record of each of the board members.

It is wonderful that we as Americans have the civil liberty of free speech and can voice our opinions in this manner. I would suspect that many would say I am a "brownnoser" but without my true name there is no expectation on my part of an at-a-boy or pat on the back, I just truly believe the Marshall School Board Members have done a great job and should be treated with the respect they deserve. Last I think if our school district is to move on and grow we need to put this behind us for the children's sake.

-- Posted by Superwiner on Thu, Jan 24, 2008, at 11:39 PM

Sorry Alphadog I guess I misread your post. You were saying the Missouri Department of Ethics found that no wrong doing was found against the school board. That is great news, please hurry and post the web site you found the info on. My google, yahoo, msn search seems to be on the fritz I can't find that information. The only web site I could find dealt with elected officials.

http://www.moethics.mo.gov/Ethics/Genera...

-- Posted by Superwiner on Thu, Jan 24, 2008, at 10:03 PM

Actually maybe you could stop with your antics and actually put the information here from the site you are referring to. Or even better yet, have Gordon's Attorney contact Mr. Crump (or you do it) with the information so that he can do a news article on it, THAT WOULD MAKE A HECK OF STORY WORTH READING (hey why not include a web link as well for the rest of us)

Sorry if I made you pop a blood vessel

-- Posted by Superwiner on Thu, Jan 24, 2008, at 9:43 PM

SW, please stop poppin off and do your research. Go and check the Missouri Dept of Ethics website. They were called in to do an investigation on this situation, and guess what, no wrong doing was found to have taken place. This is public information and The Conclusion of Facts can be found there. This was conducted by an actual investigator not an attorney. I mean no disrespect to lawyers but they make the worst investigators and anybody who's in the game knows this. "So Lucy, I think you have some explaining to do"......You can substitute Lucy for I don't know maybe the schoolboard. I really hope Dr. Gordon's attorney is reading these blogs.

-- Posted by alphadog on Thu, Jan 24, 2008, at 9:19 PM

cssmcc, sorry just chuckling to myself, the "due process" was not served because Gordon walked out of his own "due process" hearing that he requested. Now we can imagine all we want to what witnesses might have said or could have said but the simple fact of the matter is…that was not a possibility once Gordon walked out of the (once again) "due process" hearing he requested. Making a statement without being questioned under oath and not allowing cross-examination questions to be asked is not presenting evidence.

I don't know if you realize if you have done this but you are making accusations about Radford for being dismissed for "immoral conduct" from a previous job??? Don't you realize who conducted the interview of Radford and recommended him to the school board for hire, (go on say it, Dr. Gordon). Now surely someone did a background check on Radford prior to hiring him and spoke with people about his past job performance, if they didn't is that not incompetence as well? Just trying to use a little logical reasoning here, stay with me.

As for attorney pay I will post my previous post in another article to clarify:

"Not sure but I think the school pays a yearly flat fee to MSBA for attorney protection, so I don't think the fees you are quoting are correct. The same school MSBA attorney is used if say a kid gets hit by a bus. Very few schools go without this "attorney insurance coverage."

So I think the money lost on that is money that is paid anyway every single school year for school attorney insurance coverage.

As far as Interim salary, Gordon is no longer getting paid as of the date of his contract being terminated, is that correct? So may we also assume that the Interim would now be getting the pay Gordon was getting (nothing more being paid there than what was budgeted?) I see some money having been spent on the first Interim before the contract was terminated but lets not try to make it into something it is not. It sure as heck doesn't equal up to $600,000 plus dollars of mismanaged money.

As for your school board post let me post another of my previous post for you:

"I don't know about the rest of you but I am finding it hard to wrap myself around the theory that every single school board member is all the sudden in a span of two months a dirty rotten scoundrel.

Before the Gordon affair started there was no ill will toward any of the school board members being voiced that I am aware of. Surely every single school board member has not all the sudden turned sour, it seems statistically impossible. I would think that if that many prominent people in our community all came to the same conclusion unanimously there would have to be some truth to the matter. I mean can that many people all at once become cuckoo."

-- Posted by Superwiner on Thu, Jan 24, 2008, at 9:05 PM

We can't move on from the Gordon situation until we get new members elected to the School Board

-- Posted by Cat Lover on Thu, Jan 24, 2008, at 7:41 PM

I want to apologize for going back on my word and continuing this dialogue with the Gordon affair, but I also feel the need to put my two cents in too.

Ok first of all school law is civil law not criminal law which means you are held to a lesser requirement for evidence when dealing with school matters. (Example of lesser evidence; O.J. Simpson criminal law, Not Guilty, civil law, Guilty (guess they thought the glove fit after all), and by the way that was a homicide case not some $600,000 school budget case.

Now with that said this budget case actually didn't even go to either the criminal court or the civil court...so this budget case would be handled in a very similar manner as a student disciplinary investigation with the exception Dr. Gordon was afforded six persons to determine guilt or innocence and not just one administrator/principal. Somebody pipe right in if I am not right that in an everyday student disciplinary incident the principal does the investigation, is the only jury and then administers the discipline if reasonable suspicion is found that the student committed the violation?

Now once again somebody jump right in and correct me if needed but wasn't the investigation done by the school attorneys? Did the school board not meet in private several times to discuss the school budget (sounds like some investigations were being conducted)?

The purpose of the "due process hearing" was not to investigate the case but to give Gordon the opportunity to show EVIDENCE to refute the charges against him, which once again, this is getting redundant, he did not provide any EVIDENCE.

Let's put that into perspective, if you had criminal case or civil case in front of a judge and jury and you refused to be questioned or take the stand would the judge throw the case out of court?? "Oh, Mr. Joe Blow since you are not going to testify under oath we will just ignore all the other evidence and throw this case out!!" No folks that's not the way it works.

The "due process hearing" was given to Dr. Gordon because he requested it, not because it was part of the investigative procedures that the board had to do. If Dr. Gordon HAD NOT requested a "due process hearing" then there would have not been a "due process hearing." Findings of guilt are substantiated everyday in criminal and civil court without testimony of those being charged.

Is it highly probable that the school board had conducted the investigation and had reached a decision prior to Dr. Gordon requesting a "due process hearing" sure it is. Now is it also possible that if Dr. Gordon had presented some compelling evidence on his behalf that the board could have changed the decision that they had already made, you bet they could have done so. But unfortunately there was no compelling evidence, actually forget compelling, there was NO evidence period presented by Dr. Gordon or his attorney at all.

I have also heard that there should have not been a suspension until the investigation had been completed, so let's address that one. If you had a CEO of a company and the company board thought there was some embezzling being done by the CEO should they suspend the CEO while they conduct an investigation or should they leave the CEO there…to say shred documents (evidence) or delete documents from computer hard drives (evidence). Come on let the common sense side of your brain kick in…you can do it…yeeees that's right you would suspend the CEO so that you could do an investigation without losing possible valuable evidence.

Ok almost done…raise your hand if you thought Bill Clinton was telling the truth when he said "I DID NOT HAVE SEXUAL RELATIONS WITH THAT WOMAN!!" Come on now don't lie you believed him right up to the end, after all he was a nice guy, not to mention the President and above suspicion, until he got presented with the evidence and that vice started getting tight…then he confessed. I bet some of you even thought that dress in the closet was planted!! The President didn't have any evidence to clear him either did he, but we wanted to believe him when he said he didn't do it…all the way up until he admitted to it.

-- Posted by Superwiner on Thu, Jan 24, 2008, at 4:41 PM

Maybe a stoplight at Vest and 65Hwy will bring more traffic to a allready dead O'dell and downtown.

-- Posted by yomomma on Thu, Jan 24, 2008, at 3:01 PM

I would think,JJGates,as much as you blog on here you could spell better.

-- Posted by yomomma on Thu, Jan 24, 2008, at 2:52 PM

The poll on Dr. Gordon is very interesting. Seems to me that if this had all been done privately, these same people would then complain that it was done "behind doors" and would have wanted it all public. My Uncle Joe was sure right....Damned if you do, damned if you don't!

-- Posted by OldOwl on Thu, Jan 24, 2008, at 12:15 PM

I am a former administrator and would like to put my "two cents" worth into the discussions going on here about Dr. Gordon's case. First, if I had a situation in my school where Student A accused Student B of wrongdoing, I would discuss the matter with BOTH parties. Then I would interview Students C, D, E, F, and G who are privy to the situation as well. Instead of suspending the student, I would get all sides of the issue, then make a decision. I don't beleive that is what happened in this case. The board apparently jumped to conclusions after talking with only Student A. Then not only was Student B suspended, but he was expelled. Student B appears not to have beens afforded even the common curtesies we allow our students, let alone other businesses. Jay Barton said in your paper he "couldn't wait" to hear Dr. Gordon's testimony at the hearing. If that is true, why have several of my administrator friends forwarded me his position being advertised to state administrators (dated Jan. 4th)? I believe that was several days before the hearing. I've also heard that the "eight pages of findings" were completed before the hearing even began. If Jay and the board TRULY wanted to hear Dr. Gordon's side, they could have asked him much earlier than in a public hearing. I have been told they held something like six or seven "private" board meetings without a single representative of the school, even the board secretary, present. In light of that fact and the fact that several board members were rolling their eyes, passing notes, and uninterested, it appears the board really did not want to hear what Gordon had to say. This matter is about power. It seems pretty obvious that no one else would verify Rick Radford's statements and that's why he was the only "witness." Tells us something about the character and disciplinary bent of the board. Their mantra appears to be "We're in charge, therefore we are right." I'm sorry for the employees of this district.

-- Posted by cssmcc on Wed, Jan 23, 2008, at 3:52 PM

Thats what i thought,everybody is a expert on everyting.

STUPID ME

-- Posted by yomomma on Wed, Jan 23, 2008, at 2:45 PM

The posting by "nomad" certainly poses a question of financial responsibility on the part of the aviation museum and Martin center organizers. Where is their funding coming from past the initial capital campaign pledges for the structure and interior to pay their daily operation costs?

-- Posted by Muffin on Wed, Jan 23, 2008, at 11:53 AM

I don't know about you but I am tired of the schoolboard talk.So,how about them Chiefs.

-- Posted by yomomma on Wed, Jan 23, 2008, at 11:51 AM

Focus Group suggest that Dr. Gordon throw his hat in the ring for the School Board race. There appears to be a ground swell of support for the Retired/Terminated Superintendent.

Focus Group is also wondering if Rick Radford sleeps well knowing that his charade will ultimately unravel.

-- Posted by FocusGroup on Tue, Jan 22, 2008, at 7:58 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
I get the impression you don't care much for Mr. Radford. I wonder if you have specific charges relevant to this situation that you could support with evidence? Otherwise, I think we've seen enough vague accusations.

Paulie Walnuts, I was reading a story that was on here from August 18 2005 and Chief Simmerman stated that if the sound of the vehicle could be heard before the vehicle was visible then it was almost certainly violating a noise ordinance. I don't know how to link to the page but i put the date up. It was something that he said to the college kids but it still works for all of the other people in this town. It's not just something that goes into effect when the college is in session. Although I thought the law when I was growing up was after a certain time, I think 9 on the weekdays, but who knows. I was young and dumb and listened to what my friends said so they could have, most likely been wrong. lol

-- Posted by AnnaBell on Tue, Jan 22, 2008, at 7:25 AM

I went to Dr. Gordon's due process hearing hoping he would clear his name, but that didn't happen. He did make an impassioned speech telling all of the wonderful things he's done for the district, and I'm sure those are quite true. His comments about NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND putting unbelievable pressure on schools and children I especially agreed with. I think he really cared about our children and our teachers. I'm also sure he's a good man who made some mistakes. He did not, however, present any hard evidence to contradict the charges against him. For those who stayed for the remainder of the hearing, the evidence presented by the board, substantiated by a paper trail, was convincing. The quotes by Jay Barton in the January 21st edition of the Daily pretty well summed it up. These blogs have made comments about how we shouldn't have an attorney on the board. If you look back over the last several decades, many attorneys have served this community in that capacity. I'm glad we had Mr. Barton on the board to help guide the board through this nightmare. After this incident, I'd hope we could also get a CPA to file sometime in the future. Jay Barton is a public servant who is very respected. He and the rest of the Marshall Board of Education care about Marshall Public Schools and the children of our community. In fact, Marshall School Board members should be commended for their UNPAID service to the community. This was not easy for them. Part of the problem with school districts being governed by a Board of Education is that they are just people like you and me who sort of learn as they go. I'm sure this board is now very well informed about the budget and will be a true watch dog from this point on. Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater! (No, I'm in no way affiliated with any board members.) Lighten up, folks. This has been difficult for everyone involved. Let's put this behind us, and hope we can again focus on the children and the teachers who teach them.

-- Posted by oneofmany on Mon, Jan 21, 2008, at 11:57 PM

How about this one:

Do we not have a noise ordinance in this town for car stereos and if so why is it not being enforced?

Day after day I am assualted by individuals in cars who apparently think the world wants to hear their music blasting their subwoofers shaking anything within 300 feet.

I'm all for the beauty and diversity of music, but this doesn't give one the right to impose their music on everyone just because they have room in their backseat for a 18" subwoofer and $400 less in their bank account I'm sure they could have used other places.

It's just a small example of how society has decayed to the point that most individuals could car less about anyone but themselves. Whatever happened to the "golden rule" or at least enforcing the rules we have?

-- Posted by Paulie Walnuts on Mon, Jan 21, 2008, at 11:54 PM

I'm not sure I appreciate the very frank, "I told you so...." from Mrs. Wright in the Aviation Museum invite. I'm glad our City Airport has made the much needed improvements. Hopefuly the Museum supports it's own and doesn't go belly up in the future. Does the Museum intice me personaly? (Nahh)

As for my money- There are other important NOT FOR PROFIT organizations,in our community, that need my dollar and many more.

-- Posted by nomad on Mon, Jan 21, 2008, at 5:01 PM

Dr. Gordon is a class act. he got a bad deal and i don't think he is the only adm who made mistakes. he should not take the fall alone.

-- Posted by Trouble Shooter on Sun, Jan 20, 2008, at 10:36 PM

I have officially found the forgiveness and will not be talking anymore about this. I would also like to offer a prayer to all those that are homeless that had to sleep outside last night in the bitter cold and starve as they were unable to retire with an $80,000 pension. I would also pray for all those in Africa who are starving and are hiding or running trying to avoid being hacked up with a machete. I would also pray for all the brave men and women in our military who are fighting abroad for our great country and are unable to be with their families.

There are obviously much much much worse things going on the world and we have lost sight of this. The Gordons want to move on and be a positive force in our community so we should give them the chance.

http://www.marshallnews.com/story/130507...

"…Although he had not yet been notified of the board's decision early Friday morning, he said he was anxious to get past the contentious situation…"

"…Linda Gordon suggested that she, too, is eager to leave the controversy behind…"

-- Posted by Superwiner on Sun, Jan 20, 2008, at 9:31 AM

"Bringing respect and trust back to the School Board is a goal of Jay's..."

http://www.marshallschools.com/board/bar...

"...support is only attained by establishing trust and confidence..."

http://www.marshallschools.com/board/kli...

mission accomplished??

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Sat, Jan 19, 2008, at 11:49 PM

Barton and the school board chose to follow the rules of a trial court proceeding??? That decision shocks my conscience. With an attorney on the board, they should know that is a very poor choice. Rules of a court proceeding only work when the rules of discovery, evidence, etc. are in play with a detached judge and an independent jury. The school board appeared to act like they were the prosecutor, the judge, and the jury; and in a public situation like this, appearance is everything. Even if Dr. Gordon was completely in the right, he would still have never had a chance. I guess it is what it is, and in the end the school board look like the bad guys. I hope there is at least somebody on the school board who might try to reconcile the board's behavior with the significant part of the community who seem to have been supportive of Dr. Gordon.

-- Posted by SecretAgentMichaelScarn on Sat, Jan 19, 2008, at 11:27 PM

Father in Heaven, I pray for this situation to become one that we can learn from. If we have offended you in any way please forgive us. I hope that after this is all said and done your will will be done. I am a Christian and believe in you. Thank you for all you have given us and help our communituy through this. Hopefully forgiveness is in the hearts of the accusers. In JESUS's name i pray.

-- Posted by U2ONE on Sat, Jan 19, 2008, at 11:14 PM

Thanks Mr. Crump for your input. I guess I am interpreting what I heard differently. I would first ask why would anyone that is not working in the district even be in the districts budget program. Also it was never addressed as to one way or the other, were these people actually getting paid or where they just on the budget.

I don't know if anyone caught on with Mr. Radford's testimony but I had thought he had mentioned a specific city where Dr. Gordon was previously employed and although he did not say and was not questioned specifically about it, I took it as that being why the people where on the Marshall School District payroll as they were from the district where Dr. Gordon previously was employed?? Sorry guess I was way off on that one.

On Jamie Goodman I thought I heard that Mr. Radford had tried to point out discrepancies in the federal budget to a tune of $200,000, and he was ordered not to discuss the budget problems?

Thanks for the clarification.

-- Posted by Superwiner on Sat, Jan 19, 2008, at 5:52 PM

I want Dr. Gordon to get his job back! Straight Up! I think all of the people who support him need to DEMAND that he be re-instated and Rick Radford be terminated immediately. Lets let Dr. Gordon have the time he needs to correct the problem and make administrative changes that need to be corrected.

-- Posted by U2ONE on Sat, Jan 19, 2008, at 5:28 PM

It is unfortunate that a shadow has been cast over the hallowed halls of our fine schools here in Marshall. As a patron and vested partner in this school district, I have found this experience to be sorrowful and eye opening. One fact that has disturbed me since I attended the "hearing" was Mr. Radford's accounts to his job description. Mr. Radford stated that when he was hired, his job did not include dealing with the budget. I am confused about this point as I had met with Mr. Radford on a couple of occasions and we discussed the budget and how certain accounts were over budget. I also find it amazing that at that "hearing" Radford stated that as of today, the budget is balanced and he and the book keeper have sat down and matched each ledger penny for penny. This is amazing! Especially since Mr. Radford, who according to his own testimony, just recently took over the books and budget (since Thanksgiving), has been able to single handedly, with the help of the book keeper, managed to get the budget corrected. The books between the central office and the book keeper are now matched "penny for penny". How can such large gaps between books be overcome and corrected in such a short amount of time?

Before I close, I would like to just state that no one is perfect and that it is a shame that what took place between Dr. Gordon and the board had to become public. I truly believe Dr. Gordon did the best for this district and the staff and students under him as I also believe each board member does their best to serve this district. I hope that every staff member and teacher takes to heart that this day will pass and Marshall will overcome the black eye it has received. I hope that the great teachers and staff in our schools stay for the future of the district. I've seen and heard comments that indicate they might leave. I hope not. The students and kids in the district should come first and I continue to try and look toward the future and see great things on our horizon. New and better classes and programs that will challenge our children and help them to grow in all areas of their life. Increased test scores, both on the MAP and other standardized tests. An after school program that will offer opportunities to students from every background and will create links to students who might otherwise fall through the cracks. Lets all focus on what is best for this fine district and our students. One for all and all for one.

-- Posted by Dr. House on Sat, Jan 19, 2008, at 5:14 PM

In response to post regarding a possible desire to be on the Board of Education in Marshall...I have no desire! While I pay taxes in the district...I do not reside there. Far from it in fact. But, looking logically at the situation, there are 4 elementary principals, 2 admin at Bueker, and 2 admin at MHS. In the past the elementary buildings were served by just 2. In the past the Central Office housed a Supt. and 1 Asst. Supt. Now we have 1 Supt(to be), 3 Asst., and District Liasion(s) positions. It seems that this district has added huge payroll positions that may not be truly necessary. It would serve the students in the district to keep the classrooms funded properly and take their needs into account. Adminisration is necessary...just how much is the question? I just think that all involved should be held accountable in this instance.

-- Posted by RedAngel on Sat, Jan 19, 2008, at 4:43 PM

Good witness list, superwiner. But doesn't it make you wonder when only one person is put under oath and on the record. It makes me think there's a lot more that they are not telling us. For example, I understand that the list of charges presented Thursday night was not the same as those listed in the Dem-News earlier. Perhaps Mr. Crump could get us an updated list.

-- Posted by raysfan on Sat, Jan 19, 2008, at 2:58 PM

Well I don't know about getting rid of building principals...but I think that paying salaries to people who don't work in the district needs to stop. Double budgeting things needs to stop. Paying out more money than was agreed needs to stop.

I think the school board has accomplished that as of Thursday I think...but if you feel your post will better serve you in your bid for one of the school board positions in the upcoming election well then more power to you (i enjoy reading your comical posts). I think though that I would be more interested in hearing how your gonna make things better and showing your past record to show you can make it happen.

-- Posted by Superwiner on Sat, Jan 19, 2008, at 2:04 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Please note: Mr. Radford said there were employees listed in the budget program that were not actually employed by the district -- but he didn't say they were getting paid by the district. As I understood his testimony, their presence in the budget program contributed to the inaccuracy of the salary budget, creating a discrepancy between the budget and the accounting ledger.

This district needs to get a serious GRIP of their finances!!! If you read my post on the story of the board letting Dr. Gordon go, then you will see my comments about how the patrons that are paying taxes to this district need to request a MAJOR restructuring effort in the administraion. There are way too many administraion positions throughout this district. From each school to the Central Office! The district, including the school board, are supposed to be good stewards of the money that they get from our taxes. It appears that they are not up to the job. Not just one of them...ALL OF THEM, FROM THE SCHOOL BOARD ON DOWN! I would surmise that this school district probably should not ask for additional tax levy increases or bond issues anytime soon!

-- Posted by RedAngel on Sat, Jan 19, 2008, at 12:46 PM

Hey let me give my list of witnesses, besides MR. RADFORD, that I would have called if Dr. Gordon had stuck around.

1. Jamie Goodman (to talk about missing federal budget funds)

2. The Bookkeeper (to verify Mr. Radford's testimony)

3. All the people listed on the salary budget that were getting paid that don't actually work for the district. (to figure out why the heck they were getting a check.)

4. Food Service Manager and Activities Director (testify that their budgets were in the black and not in the red)

5. Dr. Gordon (So he could provide all the evidence that he wasn't in the wrong.)

6. YMCA Director (figure out why they were getting $42000.00 when they were only supposed to get $25,000)

Now I did say it would have been after midnight but really if Mr. Radford's testimony took almost two hours, that doesn't include testimony time from cross examination from Dr. Gordon's attorney that didn't take place, but lets say that would have taken two hours as well, and lets say Dr. Gordon's testimony would have taken at least the same amount of time, that would be 8 hours already of testimony. Lets say for each of the additional persons it took at least an 2 hours, which is a low estimate, with questions from the school attorney and Dr. Gordon's attorney. Are we adding that up.

Now since we don't have any idea at this point (would have been revealed with further testimony) as to how many people were being paid who weren't actually employed/working for the district, we really can't figure out the hours it would have taken to question and cross exam them can we? Now I'm sure we will all put our own numbers in, I am guessing a conservative estimate of 5.

Dr. Gordon elected to shorten this due process hearing by leaving. The school board appears to me have honored his wants by not making it a further long and drawn out process by just calling the one witness. But I think with a little rationale thought one can probably figure out who the additional witnesses could have been.

I would also say that if this were to go to civil court or criminal court that this would have been close to a witness list. Although I haven't made a guess at who would have testified for the defense, I am sure Dr. Gordon would not have been the only person to testify on his behalf.

Now I would say that if this due process hearing were to have gone to the full measure that is would have lasted a lot longer than it did and would have had a lot more witnesses, probably lasting up to a week or beyond.

But that's just my opinion!!

-- Posted by Superwiner on Sat, Jan 19, 2008, at 10:10 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
A few clarifications:

1. Neither the board nor Mr. Radford suggested that federal funds were missing. Mr. Radford argued that the practice of budgetting for full reimbursement from federal programs was unwise because the district is only reimbursed for funds it actually expends. Budgeting the full authorized amount means the district is likely to come up short of its expected revenues for federal programs, according to Mr. Radford.

3. Mr. Radford said there were employees listed in the budget program that were not actually employed by the district -- but he didn't say they were getting paid by the district. As I understood his testimony, he said their presence in the budget program contributed to the inaccuracy of the salary budget, meaning they put the budget out of whack with the actual expenditures. Presumably, actual salary expenditures were going only to actual employees. At least, no one said anything otherwise at the hearing.

Hey that was only one witness more than than Dr. Gordon had. And seriously wouldn't there just have been even more superwining if there were multiple witnesses. Then we would have to hear about how the board called all these witnesses and Dr. Gordon wasn't even there and how we had to stay past midnight to hear all the evidence and how it was so unnessary because all the evidence was being submitted without objection anyway because Dr. Gordon's attorney wasn't there to object.

-- Posted by Superwiner on Sat, Jan 19, 2008, at 9:32 AM

Only one witness Thursday night ... Mr. Barton, can you spell corroboration?

-- Posted by raysfan on Sat, Jan 19, 2008, at 5:06 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
I asked about this, too. Mr. Barton said the school district's attorney, Steve Wright, conducted the investigation and determined the witness list, so this is a question I plan to ask Mr. Wright next week.

Thursday night's hearing featured Barton's Rules of Order. I wonder if he's found that statute yet?

-- Posted by raysfan on Sat, Jan 19, 2008, at 4:35 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
I asked about that. Mr. Barton referred me to the district's policy for terminating professional staff:

http://tinyurl.com/2lkrfu

as the basis for holding the public hearing.

He said there wasn't anything in the policy or statutes that specifies the rules for the hearing so the board chose the rules of court proceedings.

My impression is that the board believed there needed to be rules in place in order to keep the event from becoming chaotic and rather than make up rules arbitrarily it chose an established set that seemed to them appropriate to the situation.

Maybe we can all go the the Middle School once a week, have a hearing and pee in a cup?

-- Posted by Paulie Walnuts on Sat, Jan 19, 2008, at 1:53 AM

Is it bad budgeting when you have people on the salary budget who don't work for the district? Wasn't there some mention of persons being on the payroll from another district who didn't work for the district. Help me out in remembering the details from someone who was at the hearing.

-- Posted by Superwiner on Fri, Jan 18, 2008, at 7:57 PM

"just curious....but do you think he is the only one responsible?"

I don't know...I do know that there wasn't any other evidence presented incriminating anyone else. Do you have some tangible evidence that you would care to share? Whew I wish we could have had some ounce of evidence presented from the other side to help substantiate your conspiracy theory!

-- Posted by Superwiner on Fri, Jan 18, 2008, at 7:51 PM

Curious...what makes one think there will be a lawsuit? How would one win a lawsuit when they can't defend themselves in a non court setting "due process hearing?" I would bet my right leg that there wouldn't be chance in the underworld of that being done sucessfully. If anything I would think there would actually be a much greater chance of criminal charges being tried sucessfully...after all aren't we talking about $600,000 plus dollars...sounds like that would be a felony...maybe a federal offense since part of the money was money received from the federal government. Not saying that is going to happen but gee whiz wally sure sounds like that would be more probably, especially since there has been absolutely no evidence presented to refute the allegations being made.

-- Posted by Superwiner on Fri, Jan 18, 2008, at 7:11 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
I think it's important to keep in mind that nowhere in the charges against Dr. Gordon is there any claim that he stole money -- not a dime.

The charges allege that he mismanaged the budget -- made errors in the budget program (not the accounting ledger) and did not correct them, did not inform the board about them, and ordered his deputy not to inform the board about them.

As I understand it, the budget program is the district's planning tool, helping officials figure out how much money it will have and where it should be spent. The accounting ledger tracks actual expenditures. They are separate programs.

The result of those actions (which he denies are true) was that the board was basically operating blind, not aware of how much money the district actually had. The district is required by law to adhere to its budget and not operate "in the red," so the board claims that Dr. Gordon's errors and failure to communicate them put the board in the position of inadvertently violating state law.

for those of you new to this check out the other postings under all the other articles regarding this situation. Its pretty neat to see so many opinions and different views surfacing

-- Posted by U2ONE on Fri, Jan 18, 2008, at 6:11 PM

You got a lawyer who wants to be a politician runnin the show.....

nuff said???

-- Posted by outsider on Fri, Jan 18, 2008, at 4:35 PM

For those that may not have bothered to find out, Larry Godsey was missing from last nights hearing because in December he was called into active duty with the US Army and is being deployed to Afghanistan. My guess is that he would have preferred to be in Marshall last night, rather than Afghanistan, but he is doing his patriotic duty. Anyone who suggests otherwise should be deeply embarassed and owes Mr. Godsey and his family an apology!

-- Posted by OldOwl on Fri, Jan 18, 2008, at 2:41 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Thank you for posting this. I've been meaning to call Mr. Godsey for several weeks to find out why he hasn't been at board meetings. I don't recall anyone from the district announcing why he wasn't there, but I could have missed it. In any case, I didn't get around to it, so I'm glad to know the reason. Thanks!

Focus Group observed the mighty Owl with his head tucked under his wing in shame at last nghts proceedings. We predict that Rick Radford will be called in the future in a proper court of law to field questions about this incident.

School Board elections are just around the corner, we do not forecast longterm employment for Mr. Rick

-- Posted by FocusGroup on Fri, Jan 18, 2008, at 11:51 AM

Apparently the voters thought one was enough!

-- Posted by Superwiner on Fri, Jan 18, 2008, at 10:25 AM

How many lawyers are too many to have on a school board? One.

-- Posted by raysfan on Fri, Jan 18, 2008, at 8:39 AM

purpleroses,

Apparently you don't mind violations of your civil liberties,suspention of due process or being guilty until proven innocent. Your rollever consent in this matter

is but a prelude to worse, much worse. How will you feel when the thought police come around? The technology is there.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Jan 18, 2008, at 6:21 AM

Well let me be the first to pipe in!! Why in the heck would Dr. Gordon ask for a due process hearing and then make some five minute mumbo jumbo feel good speech and then leave the hearing before it actually began? I was so disappointed that he did not defend those nine allegations! Why wouldn't he want to testify before the 100 plus community members that showed up, if he was innocent? If these allegations were false why would he let them go unanswered? And what the heck kind of attorney would advise him to do that?? I hope the attorney did that one pro bono! Of course I was one of the people that actually stuck around to hear the evidence against him. I came to the conclusion after hearing the almost two hours of evidence that if I were his attorney and had reviewed the evidence I would have told him almost the same thing, except I would have told him to just to stay home instead showing up and making himself look even more guilty.

-- Posted by Superwiner on Thu, Jan 17, 2008, at 9:36 PM

I agree every one should be tested randomly in any work force may be some of these people here would wake up in this town and realize there alot of people here on drugs not just adults kids too .

-- Posted by purpleroses on Thu, Jan 17, 2008, at 7:19 PM

Why, JJ! I'm surprised. R U one of these people that believe using pot or a hit of acid (on occassion) makes you more intelligent? Nahh, not you.....

Why provide to someone who doesn't want to provide for themselves? Why provide someone a way to buy their drug of choice? Sell some food for cash. The EBT card didn't stop that. It's easy to go fill out a form and get help. It's hard to overcome the income levels and graduate from these programs.

I was very proud of our community to use this CIRCLES program.

I've been there. Raised two beautiful children on Welfare. I'm not an angel by any means... If a drug test was part of the application process during my time of need, I would have grown up a lot sooner. The haze in the mind of a drug user slowly kills the reality of living.

-- Posted by nomad on Thu, Jan 17, 2008, at 5:00 PM

Smokin Cheetah has a very good point. It should be mandated w/ the Federal Assistance Program (Housing, Food Stamps, and any Cash assistance programs) to make part of the application process for the applicant to provide a controlled drug test. It makes sense.....

I'll pee in a cup!

-- Posted by nomad on Thu, Jan 17, 2008, at 12:51 PM

Can't we all just pee in a cup and get along?

-- Posted by Paulie Walnuts on Thu, Jan 17, 2008, at 12:41 AM

FocusGroup met last night and anticipates Rick Radford not being able to cover his behind at the meeting this week. His house of cards is about to tumble.

Stay Tuned!

-- Posted by FocusGroup on Wed, Jan 16, 2008, at 9:04 AM

I like pondering & I own a 20?? gizmo(don't really like it). I repel the mean chatter.

Very intelligent points regarding the "checks & balances". I do believe more officials could and should be implicated as well. As these are "The Days of Our Lives" it will continue.....

-- Posted by nomad on Tue, Jan 15, 2008, at 9:39 PM

Come on, people! Pointing fingers and tossing accusations are pointless. Not even good reading material. Keeping things in perspective. Gordon, may have exploited the funds our Public Schools need to opperate. The children are the ones who lose out. Maybe, someone should have caught it before now. Hind site is ALWAYS 20/20. The important thing is to learn from the wrongs and become a stronger group of people.

-- Posted by nomad on Tue, Jan 15, 2008, at 2:33 PM

Sometimes I think it is good to examine ourselves before we are so quick to criticize others...especially when we don't know all the facts or the rest of the story.

-- Posted by ADVK8 on Mon, Jan 14, 2008, at 10:28 AM

Focus Group thinks Rick Radford appears to wear a "Teflon Suit", there is certainly more than meets the eye.

-- Posted by FocusGroup on Mon, Jan 14, 2008, at 9:22 AM

not really speaking out and not wanting to offend ANYONE. I just feel there is a lot of finger pointing and as a tax paying citizen concerned that school money will be spent on something that is not merited. if there is/was fraudulent use of funds something should be done. i'm not ready to jump on the bandwagon until All the facts are in and Dr. Gordon has the opportunity to tell his side of the story.

-- Posted by U2ONE on Sun, Jan 13, 2008, at 4:04 PM

I agree he is a nice guy but that has nothing to do with the nine reasons the board suspended him.

1. He was informed in November 2006 that district salaries were exceeding the budgeted amount by $323,000, but he neither corrected the budget nor informed the board of the problem.

2. He knowingly presented incorrect budget figures to the board at its August 2007 meeting.

3. When asked by a board member at the August meeting whether he had anticipated the budget problems, he said he had not.

4. He included in the budget the district's full allocation of federal program revenues even though the district historically does not expend the full amount and is only reimbursed for actual expenses, thereby increasing the overall budget deficit.

5. He "authorized expenditures in excess of budgeted expenditures, contributing to the district's budget deficits."

6. He double-budgeted teacher career ladder expenditures, bringing the total budgeted to $391,000 "in excess of actual expenditures," without which the total actual expenditures would have been about $640,000 -- and did not inform the board of the error.

7. He interfered with proper administration of the budget by directing Deputy Superintendent Rick Radford not to discuss the federal programs budget with Assistant Superintendent Jamie Goodman, who is responsible for administering federal programs.

8. His failure to properly administer the budget resulted in a deficit for the 2006-2007 fiscal year of more than $641,000.

"In addition, your failure to timely and accurately disclose your budgeting errors ... caused the Board of Education to be out of compliance with applicable laws ... requiring the timely amendment of budgets and prohibiting the expenditure of revenues in excess of budgeted amounts."

9. While serving on the Board of Directors of Salt Fork YMCA, he "permitted ... amounts to be paid to Salt Fork YMCA in excess of amounts budgeted for the After School Program and without any current contract or itemized invoices for service rendered."

Further, after the board noted the lack of contract with the YMCA "an agreement was prepared and apparently backdated and this fact was withheld from the Board of Education."

By the way, WOW, first I'm a board member now I'm Rick Radford. I guess we could play that hot or cold game (your way cold) or maybe I could start guessing at who you are.

And last… who are the people that we need to listen to?? Are they accountants who know how to analyze a school budget like the school attorneys or did you have someone else in mind...I mean really isn't just any one of the reasons cited enough??? But nine different reasons...come on!!

-- Posted by Superwiner on Sat, Jan 12, 2008, at 6:50 PM

Dr. Gordon is a very competent, professional and caring person who has nothing but the best interest of the students and the district in mind. When this is over, all that will have been accomplished is the district will have spent a lot of money on a law suit that could have been avoided. The board should start listening to the people who know what is going on instead of listening to someone who is trying to sabotage Dr. Gordon's efforts in order to promote himself (Rick Radford). Get a Grip

-- Posted by U2ONE on Sat, Jan 12, 2008, at 6:20 PM

And yes my posts are anonymous too but if you notice my post do not make vague accusations. If there is meat to the accusations of the other superintendents having done something wrong then I, just like everyone else, would like to see the proof. If this were an outsider witch hunt, wouldn't Jamie Goodman and Rick Radford (they are not local yokels) be on the witch's pole for the fire as well??? That's why when comments are made that this is witch hunt because Dr. Gordon is an outsider it has no meaning.

I want to be perfectly clear...I really don't care one way or the other...it's just that I'm bored and no one will talk about anything interesting. It's kind of like being in prison and counting the bricks on the wall, not because it is fun but because there is nothing else to do. Guess I need to get a life!

-- Posted by Superwiner on Sat, Jan 12, 2008, at 5:58 PM

Sorry...I like my high horse it keeps me from walking in the doo doo myself.

-- Posted by Superwiner on Sat, Jan 12, 2008, at 5:30 PM

Superwiner,

Is that your real name or just description of your personality? Your posts are anonymous too. Careful you don't fall off that high horse of yours.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Sat, Jan 12, 2008, at 5:06 PM

Sounds like we have someone that wants to be on the school board...maybe you should have put your name on the ballot instead of making anonymous post that you can't substantiate with fact. I would suggest coming to the board meeting on the 17th at the middle school so that you can hear the facts instead of trying to make up your own.

-- Posted by Superwiner on Sat, Jan 12, 2008, at 4:31 PM

I am by no means a rocket scientist...but weren't there 9 different items mentioned by the school board as the reason for Dr. Gordon being suspended. That's not a witch hunt...finding some vague reason and then suspending him would have been a witch hunt...there are 9 different specific points spelled out in the democrat article. To me that sounds like the school board has done a well thought out investigation with the help of the school attorney.

-- Posted by Superwiner on Sat, Jan 12, 2008, at 11:52 AM

I would say that most superintendents/administrators/managers/CEOs delegate authority...after all one person can't be expected to do everything. I would say it would be a reasonable assumption that prior to Mr. Radford presenting any detailed presentations to the board that Dr. Gordon would have viewed and approved them prior to presentation to the school board???

-- Posted by Superwiner on Fri, Jan 11, 2008, at 10:53 PM

Actually the Superintendent "Oversees the preparation of the annual budget and establishes processes for effective fiscal management." I was able to find the Superintendent job description on the school web site, hopefully this will help you. The Deputy Superintendent and Assistant Superintendent assist in budget matters but when it comes right down to it, I think the Superintendent is the CEO of the district and has the final say.

Superintendent

Marshall Public School District Job Description

Position Title: Superintendent

Department: Central Office

Reports To: Board Of Education

SUMMARY: Under direction of the Board of Education, manages the school district, acting as an agent of the Board. Provides information and input to the Board, manages school business and provides liaison between the community and the District.

ESSENTIAL DUTIES AND RESPONSIBILITIES: Other duties may be assigned.

Acts as the agent of the Board of Education.

Establishes and prepares meeting agendas, presents items for consideration to the Board, responds to inquiry from the Board.

Manages a staff of administrators including the Assistant Superintendents, Directors, and Principals.

Ensures the communication and interpretation of Board decisions and requests to staff and community.

Facilitates the development and implementation of the District's vision, goals and strategies.

Coordinates the evaluation of certified and classified staff.

Responds to staff and community regarding questions or problems about school operations.

Coordinates the annual Board review of the District's programs.

Recommends policy and program decisions to the Board.

Develops administrative rules and procedures to implement Board policy.

Makes periodic visits to all school buildings throughout the school year.

Oversees the preparation of the annual budget and establishes processes for effective fiscal management.

Coordinates the recruitment, selection and induction of new certified and classified staff, and recommends candidates to the Board for hiring.

Attends various organizational meetings outside and within the school district.

Is responsible for providing effective public relations.

Ensures compliance with appropriate State and Federal Constitutional and statutory rules and regulations.

SUPERVISORY RESPONSIBILITIES: Manages subordinate supervisors who supervise all employees in the Finance/Planning, Curriculum/Staff Development, Community Education, Special Education, Principals, and Personnel/Employee Relations, Athletics, Vocational Education and Building and Student Services Departments. Is responsible for the overall direction, coordination, and evaluation of these units. Also provides for the supervision of non-supervisory employees. Carries out supervisory responsibilities in accordance with the organization's policies and applicable laws. Responsibilities include interviewing, hiring, and training employees; planning, assigning, and directing work; appraising performance; rewarding and disciplining employees; addressing complaints and resolving problems.

EDUCATION and/or EXPERIENCE: A Specialist Degree in Education, with a Doctorate preferred. Must have strong leadership skills and communication skills.

CERTIFICATES, LICENSES, REGISTRATIONS: Certification for Superintendent, Certification for Central Office Administration.

EVALUATION: Performance in this position will be evaluated annually in accordance with provisions of the Board's policy on the evaluation of the superintendent.

TERMS OF EMPLOYMENT: Twelve-month contract.

-- Posted by Superwiner on Fri, Jan 11, 2008, at 6:46 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Yep. The buck stops at the superintendent's desk. But the deputy appears to be in charge of day to day monitoring of the budget and Rick Radford often does the detailed presentations before the school board. So, in the past, has Rob Gordon. Just based on observation rather than job description.

As far as the next President it sure would be nice to have one that actually made a difference. Wouldn't it be nice if we actually were able to do something about the economy, health care, the environment and the energy crisis?

It boggles my mind to think that many other countries in the world have universal health care for their citizens and we as the most powerful country in the world don't.

Why as one of the wealthiest nations in world do we have citizens starving and homeless? Why do we have minimum wage laws that pay our hardworking citizens a measly $12,000 a year salary? Oh by the way that will jump to an astonishing $15,000 dollars a year by 2009. After you pay for rent, electricity, water, natural gas, fuel for the car, food for a family of four, car payment and gee forget health insurance the money is gone!

How is that we can send a spacecraft to Mars and land little robots to roam around and get images back from a million miles away but we can't build cars that get better gas mileage.

And last how can we stick our head in the hole and say that we aren't changing our planet's climate for the worst. All the signs for global warming are here.

I sure hope our next President will be leader that will lead us in the right direction to actually fix these problems. Even more I hope as voters we can pick the right President to do this.

-- Posted by Superwiner on Wed, Jan 9, 2008, at 9:14 PM

HELLO TO BILL, AL, OKLAHOMA! HOW ABOUT JOHN EDWARDS? AND THE PROPOSAL HUCKABEE,RON PAUL MADE ON CHANGE TO A SALES TAX TO REPLACE FEDERAL TAX?

-- Posted by Jo on Mon, Jan 7, 2008, at 10:02 PM

Nice to see things come out on the superintendent saga, and he has an opportunity to present his side of the story. This should be interesting.

-- Posted by Muffin on Fri, Jan 4, 2008, at 5:25 PM

can t we all just get along.

-- Posted by yomomma on Fri, Jan 4, 2008, at 2:44 PM

I got one more idea for something you can do. TURN YOUR CAPS LOCK OFF!

-- Posted by What the f...... on Thu, Jan 3, 2008, at 11:08 PM

I WOULD LIKE TO THANK ALL THE PEOPLE WHO GAVE ME IDEAS ON THINGS IN MARSHALL TO DO IT SURE HELPED TO HERE OF THOSE THINGS .SOMETIMES YOU DONT THINK OF ALL THE IDEAS I GOT

-- Posted by purpleroses on Thu, Jan 3, 2008, at 5:16 PM

I am assuming that you voluntarily choose to live in our fair community and are not being forced to live here by the mafia or are in the witness protection program. Sounds like you would like to move to the big city where there are more things for your child to do. We'll miss you!

-- Posted by Superwiner on Thu, Jan 3, 2008, at 1:04 PM

"HELLO i will be more than happy to geive u ideas what there is for kids in bigger cities they have a community center they have at risk programs they have big brother sister programs i could name on and on what we dont have here . And for the cost of sports its enormous ammount if you live on nothing i know wrestling cost 100 registration fee not counting the cost of shoes the cost of knee pads and not counting gas to these events i know i sure cant afford it and i refuse to live on plastic like most do and lets see what we got here the ymca you cant do much there unless u are 14 same way at the swimming pool 14 so i sure dont what there to do for kids here .where i come from they have 1.oo shows on the weekend and the rollerskateing place there s 3.oobut here kids dont have any thing to do .So if you have any ideas what for them to do i m open for suggestion please let me know what theres to do if you have no money is my point."

I understand your point on not having the money to do a lot of things unfortunlay that is not uncommon in this day and age.

I do think the youth wrestling program has a few benefactors to help with kids that want to wrestle and I know for a fact that there is a lot of car pooling that goes on and every year there is used equipment that cost very little.

I also think the youth football program has a benefactor or two that is willing to help.

Soccer is very affordable in Marshall.

"Not to bash your post but this isn't the time when you grew up. Camping on weekends? parents now are probably being forced to work double shifts at the hab center and cannot get off."

I know its only one place of employment but the understaffing at the Hab Center is getting better they have hired over 40 people in direct care in the last 2 months.

"while Marshall spends money to buy airport land and a civic center based around an airplane, in my opinion that money could be better spent to serve the community not a select few. but you reap what you sow, everyone does. one day the old will have to rely on today's youth and its going to be a rude awaking. neglect the youth now and one day it will neglect you.....karma......come up-ins.......law of physics........whatever you call it...."

I understand your point here on spending money but I am just not real sure where all the money came from so I will not pass judgment on this until I am better informed.

"have been reading a few of you argue for a few days now, so I will change the subject so you will quit embarrassing yourselves on here. The question I have has to do with the "shop Marshall" ads that I see all over town. First off I have no problem with this, but what I do have a problem with is Marshall or the city itself. All I hear is shop Marshall, shop marshal. I myself have been to the new museum a few times and what I notice is that there is only one company from Marshall even doing anything with it. everyone else is out of town. there is a company from Sedalia doing the garage doors. what is wrong with Marshall Garage Door Company? and the list goes on. Congradulation to Doug and Chris from Coleman's plumbing for even getting the chance to work for this two-faced town. The same thing goes to the city about the city paving from 2006 it went to APAC who is not a Marshall based company. the only reason that Marshall Paving even got the bid in 2007 is because Bill and Steve Rieth refused to sell the city any materials in '06. Let me know what you think."

Do you know if the company's you talk about just got out-bid on the jobs or do you know for a fact that there was some unethical deals made?

-- Posted by Gal66 on Thu, Jan 3, 2008, at 10:49 AM

When I was growing up here, which I have lived here all my life, there was always things to do.. I played basketball in middle school and high school, I was in band from 6th grade on, I had friends that always wanted to do something. Walking, riding bikes, snowball fights, hanging out watching movies, going skating.. We always found things to do even when it was cold outside. Most of our activities didn't cost money. How much does it cost to get neighbor hood kids together and have a good ol snowball fight? What is the cost of walking around the block? Visiting friends? You just have to find something that you like to do and make it happen. Never let money be the priority. Going to play at the park.. Now granted it is cold outside but still. Dust off your VCR or DVD player and watch a movie. Have a family night.. Play board games. When it gets warmer out take walks with the family, go to the library.. it doesn't cost anything to get a card, unless you live outside city limits, check out some books, some movies... something. This town may not be the best and most people may think that you need money to do things but right there i just gave some examples of things that you can do for free. Yes sports do cost but like lem90 said there are things you can do to let the kids earn money. With the winter season upon us, and with the snow falling, you can shovel snow for people, elderly people who can't get out and do things like that and don't have a lot of money to pay the bigger snow removal companies in this town. That is one way to earn money.. have them save the money and only use it for something that they want to do. That way they are paying for their things and it makes them feel more responsible kids. When I was younger I had to do chores around the house so that I could earn my money. I didn't have my parents giving me money and I wouldn't have wanted them to give it to me either. I have had real jobs since I was 15. I had to work my way up so that at the age of 25 I don't have to work now. Granted it's not me that makes the money it's my husband. Some people may say that I'm lucky that I don't have to work now but I want to work.. and that all came from the fact that when I was younger I had to do things to earn my money if I wanted to go to the movies or skating on the weekend with my friends. And I don't think that enough people go out and watch the sports teams in this town. Yes high school football and basketball is quite popular as well as at the college level. But how many of you have been out to watch the Volleyball team play? What about track? Baseball season is coming up at the college level.. How many of you will be out there with your families cheering on the Vikings while they play their home games? All these kids have is the support of their friends from campus. Their parents don't get to come see them play and cheer them on unless they are from around here. So when the season starts up why don't we all take our families out to a baseball game? Or Tennis match.... or Softball game... The point here is that there are tons of things to do around here, most of it you might not even think about doing. Most of us just put off doing things because we are too tired to do anything then complain because there is nothing to do. Well I think that if we all just got out once and watched at least one game for one team, weather it be college or high school, it would make a world of difference to these kids. And it might also be something that the younger kids would get into and end up doing when they got older. I know plenty of kids that don't or didn't have the money to do sports, but with fundraisers and things that the schools put on, they are able to do these things. You might want to look into the fundraising thing. I would assume that in high school these are used to lower the cost of the equipment that is needed for the athletes. That way the burden of the parent paying for everything is lessened. But those are all suggestions.

-- Posted by AnnaBell on Thu, Jan 3, 2008, at 10:31 AM

I understand what it is like to raise three teens with limited funds. My children know poverty, not hunger, but they will be the first to tell you that being poor stinks. We find stuff to do here in Marshall however. My boys wrestle; play baseball, football and what ever else grabs their fancy. Sometimes I provide their equipment and sometimes they have to earn their own money for equipment. Talk to coaches about help if you need it, remember that your child does not have to go to every tournament, and you could split travel cost with other parents by car pooling. As for those of you who think homework is the only thing to do on weeknights, none of my kids get anything less than a C for grades (one has been on the A honor roll for as long as I can remember), they generally do their home work at school. Video games give them a chance to escape reality for a short duration, as does reading, I make them read ½ hour befor playing games or getting on the computer. For those of you who complain that there is nothing to do in Marshall, my advice to you is to call a friend and go to a game. We are lucky enough to have three schools with inter scholastic activities to attend. BMS, MHS, and MVC each have large gyms and all too often have lots of empty seats because there's nothing to do. There are plays and musicals to attend at all three levels. As for the park being closed, well I understand why the roads are closed in adverse conditions but why has sledding been shut down? If it was for insurance reasons, how can we have an unsupervised skate park but no sledding? Sledding at Indian Foothills is a Marshall tradition.We are in the middle of Missouri, we have no local pro teams, we have the students who have chose to represent us, we should support these students when ask what is there to do in Marshall. Get a schedule…

-- Posted by lem90 on Wed, Jan 2, 2008, at 11:11 PM

I have been reading a few of you argue for a few days now, so i will change the subject so you will quit embarrising yourselves on here. The question i have has to do with the "shop marshall" ads that i see all over town. First off I have no problem with this, but what I do have a problem with is Marshall or the city itself. All I hear is shop marshall, shop marsahll. I myself have been to the new muesum a few times and what i notice is that there is only one company from marshall even doing anything with it. everyone else is out of town. there is a company from Sedalia doing the garage doors. what is wrong with Marshall garage door company? and the list goes on. congradulation to doug and chris from colemans plumbing for even getting the chance to work for this two-faced town. The same thing goes to the city about the city paving from 2006 it went to APAC who is not a marshall based company. the only reasion that Marshall Paving even got the bid in 2007 is because Bill and Steve Rieth refused to sell the city any materials in '06. Let me know what you think.

-- Posted by just a question on Wed, Jan 2, 2008, at 6:40 PM

For the kids I would tell them to turn off the video game and go outside to play. For you I would suggest an english class.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Wed, Jan 2, 2008, at 2:36 PM

HELLO i will be more than happy to geive u ideas what there is for kids in bigger cities they have a community center they have at risk programs they have big brother sister programs i could name on and on what we dont have here . And for the cost of sports its enormous ammount if you live on nothing i know wrestling cost 100 registration fee not counting the cost of shoes the cost of knee pads and not counting gas to these events i know i sure cant afford it and i refuse to live on plastic like most do and lets see what we got here the ymca you cant do much there unless u are 14 same way at the swimming pool 14 so i sure dont what there to do for kids here .where i come from they have 1.oo shows on the weekend and the rollerskateing place there s 3.oobut here kids dont have any thing to do .So if you have any ideas what for them to do i m open for suggestion please let me know what theres to do if you have no money is my point .

-- Posted by purpleroses on Wed, Jan 2, 2008, at 1:38 PM

Purpleroses we have the same things to do in Marshall that we have we have always had, you know when I was growing up right here in Marshall during the school year we stayed at home did our homework, on the weekends our family did a lot of camping, yard work you know family stuff.

You talk about the expense of sports in Marshall can you tell me what the cost for kids to play sports is?

Also can you give me some examples of the things for kids to do in larger communities?

-- Posted by Gal66 on Wed, Jan 2, 2008, at 8:02 AM

Lets all pray for the man who was in the accident on jefferson tonight .He is the man who delivers medicine to us from red cross .

-- Posted by purpleroses on Mon, Dec 31, 2007, at 8:20 PM

JUST what is there for kids to do in marshall? please dont say sports because they cost a fortune in this town and dont say church tried that here and not a person speaks to you in any church here .ANY IDEAS ANYONE

-- Posted by purpleroses on Sat, Dec 29, 2007, at 3:26 PM

yomamma,

What does having displays at the park have to do with your comment about kids having nothing to do in Marshall?

-- Posted by EMAW on Sat, Dec 29, 2007, at 2:51 PM

Alphadog,

I think maybe you missed Bushbegone's point. You say this type war profiteering and outright stealing from U.S taxpayers has gone on for 50 years so therefore for it's ok, is that about right? We have to start somewhere so what's wrong with holding this blatantly corrupt admistration accountable. Two of the biggest offenders have direct ties with the vice president. You sound like the typical Bush apologist. "Well they did it in other administrations so it must be ok" Well, It is not ok. They are screwing you too. Does it matter to you or are you willing to look the other way just because "your team" won?

Should we blame it on Clinton? Perhaps blame it on Bush senior or Reagan? What ever the case GW has never owned up to anything in his privilaged little life.

I prefer to live in the here an now which places the ball squarely in GW's court. If this were a Democratic adminstration I would still be calling them on this corruption as well. But for now, it's all GW.

If Bushbegone has an agenda maybe it's to wake people up to the atrocities of greed and corruption in our highest levels of govt.

Since you said that you've actually had some experience in this area, just exactly what have you done about it?

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Dec 28, 2007, at 8:46 PM

FocusGroup,

How about you be my own personal dictionary.

-- Posted by alphadog on Fri, Dec 28, 2007, at 6:12 PM

purplerose and alphadog.

Please get a dictionary or spellcheck.

-- Posted by FocusGroup on Fri, Dec 28, 2007, at 11:37 AM

EMAW

Why would they have displays in the park ? It is off the beatn path u know.

DUMB,DUMB idea to begin with.

-- Posted by yomomma on Fri, Dec 28, 2007, at 10:33 AM

bushbegone,

Apparentally you are only 1 tract minded to get the currnet administration. This practice has been going on for a half a century or more. Speak with some one who has experience with government contracts and I bet you will be crushed to see just how many other areas of the government operate this way and how it crosses over into all presidents who have served (including both parties) so to attack this issue sounds like you have an agenda. I could be wrong but your post only covers half truths. I have experience in the sand box and dealing with government contracts. If your accusations are accurate the Military has safeguards in place for this type of behavior. It is called Faurd, Waste, and Abuse Div. Any Soldier at any time can make a complaint and "it will" be investigated. If inproper actions were taken by private companies they can be fined "no limit" or even held responsible in Federal Court. If you have proof of this incident "extra paperplate" then I would incourage you to make an anonymous complaint with as much information regarding this incident to the Faurd, Waste, and Abuse Div. of the US. Military.

-- Posted by alphadog on Fri, Dec 28, 2007, at 9:45 AM

yomamma,

What could they be doing out at the park this time of year and in this weather other than sledding when there is enough snow???

-- Posted by EMAW on Thu, Dec 27, 2007, at 10:34 PM

Don't be suprised,stuff like that happens all the time.Kids don't have a hole lot of things to do in Marshall to keep them busy.

-- Posted by yomomma on Thu, Dec 27, 2007, at 2:33 PM

I was so dissapointed to find the park closed tonight when i took friends out there to see the park .I thought they was going to keep the park open whats the sense in having this if you cant go threw it .It would have been nice to have open to have out of town memebers to see what marshall was doing.

-- Posted by purpleroses on Tue, Dec 25, 2007, at 7:39 PM

Purplerose, sounds like your son may be better served by a school that is more readily able to handle a student with a disability such as your sons, like Butterfields. It is unfortunate about your son's behavior disability, but shouldn't we also be concerned about the other 20-25 children in the class who miss out on their education due to the teacher having to address children who can't mind the teacher in class. I could just imagine how the other children in the class suffer education wise when the teacher is constantly having to address behavior problems from one or two students instead of teaching the lesson. I think this all goes back to my previous post of "respecting your elders."

It sounds like you have a hard decision to make but I'm sure that as a parent you love your child and will make the right decision. Just remember right now, what you do as far as molding your child will stick with them the rest of there life. You can be one of those parents that enable their children to do wrong by making excuses for their behavior or you can be the parent who guides and mentors your child to being a productive member of society. The hard love you show them now (7 more years, your child is 11) will guide them and keep them out of harms way (going to prison or worse dying). Hope this helps.

-- Posted by Superwiner on Sat, Dec 22, 2007, at 10:34 AM

Smokin' Cheetah,

You make very good point about all the supplemantary expenses as those would be required indeed. Seems to me that for that kind of money we could actually provide the soldiers with properly armored Humvees and body armor.

I guarantee you that those individual soldiers never reap the full benefits of a great deal of that money but you can bet that private contractors do.

At some bases in Iraq, the food service is provided by KBR which charges the U.S. taxpayer $28 per plate. That's for the actual styrofoam plate. The food put on the plate is adequate and plentiful but they actually charge by the plate itself, why? Because alot of soldiers like to get thier meal and take it back to thier quarters. They'll put another plate over the food to keep it warm and keep the sand out. That innocent activity by the soldier has now just cost the taxpayer $56 for one meal. Naturally,that is not the soldiers fault but it is just one of many examples of how private contractors are literally stealing from us.You and me.

-- Posted by bushbegone on Sat, Dec 22, 2007, at 9:44 AM

OH YES are u sure that a grown adult can do that to his wife but a 11 year old doesnt even put his hands on any one and he get suspended for the rest of the year till he goes to 8 grade so you tell me what right and whats wrong i dont think he has a disability for the reson what happened at the fair but my son sure does thank you

-- Posted by purpleroses on Fri, Dec 21, 2007, at 5:19 PM

Hello my son was acting out of his disabilty when the district chose not to re write a iep or do a behavior intervention plan they said he s been bad to long now hes out and i get know where with any off them other school district use other way of discipline other than suspending the he has not hit any one or any thing like that he just dont raise his hand he blurts out ansewers or roolll his eyes at the staff .they tell me each kid can be disciplined the way they see fit if u are not on the other side then your kid i s subject to any kind of discipline according to the other side .so know hes out and they dont care to see him in regular school .any ideas any one

thankyou

-- Posted by purpleroses on Fri, Dec 21, 2007, at 5:15 PM

I just read the article about the deployment of Mollie Keith. I wish her well and thank her for her service but I would like to comment on some info in the article.

She will be in charge of $100 Million dollars worh of equipment: 44 Humvees and 14 new armored vehicles. That's a total of 58 vehicles with an average cost of $1,724,137.93 per vehicle.

Now, don't get me wrong I want our soldiers to have the best but this seems over the top excessive. No wonder GW is asking for another 100 Billion every other month. Kinda makes one wonder who is really benefitting from this "war"?

-- Posted by bushbegone on Fri, Dec 21, 2007, at 11:46 AM

How did the district handle what he did? I don't think I heard what happened.. or was that something that the community wasn't supposed to hear about? Just wondering

-- Posted by AnnaBell on Fri, Dec 21, 2007, at 9:02 AM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Mr. Tobin received a one-week suspension without pay. Here are the stories we did at the time:

http://www.marshallnews.com/story/116591...

http://www.marshallnews.com/story/116598...

I understand now. I guess when I read the comment I read it too fast! Yes I have seen just a couple of kids like that in the paper. The one thing that gets me is that a judges son can try to do harm to his family and the only thing that comes out of it is basically a slap on the wrist because the parents don't want to deal with it. Sad times.

I know that I am not from one of the prominent families in town but my father was well known since he worked for the city. I would get pulled over for things and walk away clean but it all came back and bit me. I totaled a car when I was 16 and my dad was good friends with the officer that was there. He told the officer that he shouldn't go easy on me just because of who my dad was. Now all of my friends knew that I never got into any trouble with the police in this town but from that day on I made sure I watched more closley as to what I did. I learned a lesson from that. It doesn't matter who your parents are or who they know, you can still get into trouble just as well as any other person in this town.

-- Posted by AnnaBell on Thu, Dec 20, 2007, at 6:06 PM

Actually the comment I made about prominent parents was not pointing out that their children are "not" seen in the paper, but to point out they "are" seen in the paper for shoplifting, driving while intoxicated, minor in possession and possession of drugs. This was meant to point out that just because parents set a good example that doesn't necessarily mean their children will follow in the same path on their own. They need guidance along with "monitored" trust (not blind trust) to stay on the right path. Sorry I tend to ask rhetorical questions to make people think "Hey I wonder if that's so...." and check the facts. I was assuming there were some readers that would say "Yea, I remember when so-in-so's son/daughter got arrested, I would have never thought that would ever happen to them."

About the prominent or any parents taking care of their children's problems quickly and quietly that is probably quite true, and in that lies another fault I believe…those parents have enabled their children to do wrong by letting them know that if they get in trouble mommy or daddy will bail them out. Those children are not given the opportunity to face the consequences or to learn a life lesson from their mistake. I know when I was growing up my father told me that if I ever got in trouble with the law that I was on my own. I had at the time and still have no doubt that my father was not bluffing when he said this. I am sure if I had ever been arrested I would have been on my own to bail myself out (sat in jail) and would have paid my own fines without his help, not to mention I would have been disciplined (not beat) by him as well. That knowledge kept me on the straight and narrow.

-- Posted by Superwiner on Thu, Dec 20, 2007, at 5:38 PM

i would like to know how a kid with a disabilty is suppose to get a education in this town when our school board allows our school to exspell a student for a disability yes my son at time is bad but he allso has alot of disability how can you just say get out of our school you are not worth wasting our time on .i think kids have become what they are because every one is busy calling the police on every one yelling abuse in fact i have been called on more than once and now ive been made to sign papers saying i wont hit or spank my kids so your hands are tied then .you can take things away from them but if your not home to enforce it it does no good and i have a son who is very disrepectful but ,whats here in this community for help .i will tell u nothing you go see a counselor here in this town and they he does nt need to be seen any more or they call the welfare on you .i bet most of you parents in this town dont even know your kids are on drugs .i here people all over here talking about this person and that person how bad this kid is and how bad that kid is .for the last thing dont shame someone because it just might be at your back door.

thank you

-- Posted by purpleroses on Thu, Dec 20, 2007, at 5:21 PM

I will say this of today's youth. There are too many children having kids. That is one problem with discipline. Most of the younger parents do not know the right way to discipline. They don't understand that beating and spankings are two totally different things. With saying that I myself am a young mother. I have 2 children and I am only 25. I had my first child when I was 18. Growing up I knew the difference between right and wrong. I lived a sheltered life up until I was about 14. I started hanging around people who you might consider to be the wrong crowd. Yes I did my share of stupid things but I knew that there would be consequences also so that left my stupidity to a minimum. My children are not perfect angels by no means. They act up in stores and sometimes they just flat out don't mind in public. But I was raised on the belief that in no way shape or form is it ever ok to beat your child. Yes my kids do get disciplined. Yes they do get spankings if they act up. Yes they have the material things that most children their age should have but the reason for that is because they are over all good kids. Yes they act up but they do know when they are given the look that times up and the straighten up. I have never beat my kids. I never intend to either. They get the same punishment that I did when I was young. If you act up you get things taken away for a week or however long it takes for them to realize what they did was wrong. My daughter doesn't get to have sleepovers if she acts up during the week. It's just common sense that you don't reward your kids for doing something bad and at the same time you don't beat them either. They have to know who is the boss. They have to know their boundries. They have to realize that they aren't the boss. My parents were firm believers in the statement that you should be parents first. Friends are something that kids make in school and around the neighborhood. That's not saying that you have to be the strictest people in the world to them. That means that you should point them in the right direction with a steady hand. Help them out when they are having problems. Love them until the day they die.

When I was younger the only fun thing to really do around here was either go bowling or go to the skating ring. Now you couldn't pay most kids to do things like that because it's not the cool thing to do. I guess kids have it in their mind that going to a party on Friday night is better then hanging out with their friends in a non socially acceptable environment. Some parents might not even know what their kids are doing and it's not because they don't care. It's because they are too worried that their kids won't think they are "cool" if they don't let them go hang out with their friends all weekend. They might not know that "Bobby" their star quarterback was out last weekend playing beer pong til 4 a.m. and drove home afterwards. They might not know that "Billy" is getting high with their friends during lunch. It just seems like parents need to get more involved in their kids lives. Yes I understand that there are parents that have to work the late shift and don't get to spend much time with their kids, their parents might not work a regular 9 to 5 job, they might work out of town or even out of state and not get to see their kids as often. That just means that the parent that is living with the kids needs to step it up a little bit more and try to get more involved. Then you wouldn't see 17 and 18 year olds going to court for minor in possession.

I too think it is odd that you rarely see and prominent family names in the court news. I think the reason behind that is because they are prominent they hurry up and take care of whatever needs to be taken care of so that their precious family name won't be ruined by one family member.

Those are just thoughts. I know that people probably won't agree with what I have said but I have said my peace no the less.

-- Posted by AnnaBell on Thu, Dec 20, 2007, at 2:47 PM

Who said anything about "beating" your child? Discipline does not mean "beat"! Trusting your child is fine, but giving them blind trust is where the problems arise. Thinking that children will not test boundaries is fool hearted thinking. I wonder if there have been any children of prominent parents (who are your stereotypical "good parents") that have been in the newspaper under the court section that have been arrested for shoplifting, driving intoxicated, minor in possession, possession of drugs, etc. Lot of good parents have children that aren't expected to do wrong that go by the way side. Once again no one has said anything about breaking the law and beating your child or said that children are evil. Children however can not expected to make rational decisions at all times (heck there are adults who make irrational decisions, the prison population attest to that fact). Peer pressure alone throws a monkey wrench into the equation when you are dealing with children. How many of you went to parties when you were underage that had alcohol present? Times haven't changed in this regard, these types of parties still exist. I will stop now with my ranting and raving. Look forward to any response though.

-- Posted by Superwiner on Thu, Dec 20, 2007, at 10:27 AM

Oh, by all means, let's get on a rant about how the children today are the root of all evil and how things were better when we were children.

Everyone say it with me: "I'm right and you're wrong. I'm big and you're little. And there's nothing you can do about it!"

Do you not grasp the concept that if you treat a child as untrustworthy, then they become untrustworthy? Why is it acceptable to treat children in ways that would get us arrested if we did it to other adults?

My children know that I am not here to be their friend but their parent. However, they also know I have confidence in their inate goodness and ability to follow their parents' examples of how to behave without needing to be beat or threatened.

If you treat your children with physical violence and then punish them for following your example, what else is to be concluded, but you first make criminals and then punish them?

-- Posted by hat full of sky on Thu, Dec 20, 2007, at 8:01 AM

this is totally hearsay, but I was under the impression that the 'budget' was approved by the board, but after that, certain funds were taken from some areas to fund others, and now there are some programs with no money to work with for the rest of the school year. I heard that the vo-tech school was really hurting from this. If funds were robbed from the vo-tech school to pay for something else, this is wrong. Let's face it, this may be the only job training some kids get in this area, it' shouldn't be taken away from them. Again this is all hearsay, we'll have to see what comes from the investigation.

-- Posted by btb005 on Wed, Dec 19, 2007, at 4:51 PM

"Gordon was suspended in order for the board to be able to initiate an investigation into allegations of errors in the district budget"

My question is doesn't the Marshall Board of Education approve the budget?

If that is true who is investigating the Marshall Board of Education for allegations of errors in the district budget?

-- Posted by Gal66 on Wed, Dec 19, 2007, at 11:02 AM

Hey, Superwiner- I AGREE! I have a toddler and gave her a couple of swats on the behind in a store the other day (because she wouldn't stay set down in the cart) Other shoppers looked at me as though I had beat her.

My older children complain that my reigns are too tight, but get onto their friends for being disrespectful to their parents. Why??? Cause when they misbehaved (in/out of school) they got a whippon. Not a beating.... a good ol'e bend over my knee spanking. With so much love. I couldn't be more proud of the young adults they are becomming.

Our teachers/ administration need this time. The parents need to buck up and take hold!

-- Posted by nomad on Thu, Dec 13, 2007, at 2:12 PM

To those criticizing or ignorant of the usefulness of teacher in-service or "early out" days:

1. Times have changed. Parents have changed. The world has changed. Governmental expectations have changed. We need to change too.

2. Yes, it can be inconvenient to have to make other arrangements for your children, but isn't once a week or half a day a month a small price to pay to make sure that your child's teacher is the best that they can be? Don't you want your child to have the best, most qualified teacher he or she can have?

3. These "early out" days ensure that your child's teacher is not only doing what he or she thinks is best for your child's education, but what a staff of college educated professionals think is best. It's called collaboration and every successful company today does it.

I look forward to your comments

-- Posted by DAWG on Thu, Dec 13, 2007, at 10:29 AM

I'll tell you what would be better than "collaboration" time...if parents would make their children turn off the tv, playstation, Xbox, MP3 player, yank that cell phone from their death grip while their texting, or keep them home on a Friday or Saturday night instead letting them run wild...and instead make them do their homework and study. The amount of time students spend in school hasn't changed that much since I was in school...what has changed in parental discipline. It seems like parent's are more concerned with being their child's best friend that they are have completely forgot they are supposed to be the parent. Parents are no longer running the household but instead their children are running things. You wanna help your child's grades improve, tell your child to leave their cell phones and mp3 players at home so teachers aren't constantly having to stop class to tell your child to put them away, make your child do their homework and check it to make sure it's done correctly, don't buy your child a car and them give them unbridled freedom to run free like a **** in the wind, do random drug test on your child either through your doctor or go to the pharmacy and pick up a three in one drug test kit (bet you won't do that one). Do that one not just to check for drugs but to scare your child straight so they say to themselves "Gee, I better not smoke that pot or try that meth, I don't know when my dad is going to drug test me!!" Last thing make your child respect their elders and if they don't discipline them to remind them. Do all these things and your child's grades will improve. Sure as heck worked when I was a kid!!

-- Posted by Superwiner on Wed, Dec 12, 2007, at 10:11 AM

I thought school got cancelled because of the icy roads(gravel roads very bad, especially for a school bus I bet). We aren't just talking about experienced adult drivers we are talking about inexperienced high school drivers on the roads as well. I would much rather the school ere on the side of caution and on the side of safety, I sure as heck don't want my kid driving if they don't have too. By the way the snow days are made up aren't they at the end of the school year? I am sure the next comment why don't the parents drive their kids to school, Some of us have to go to work way before school even starts.

-- Posted by Superwiner on Wed, Dec 12, 2007, at 9:29 AM

I'll bump this up...couldn't of said it better JJ! Speak on!

while im on my soapbox...... i was watching the 10 oclock news and i seen where a homeless man froze to death and was found in the snow by a motorist and it almost made me sick. this sunday people will pack into church, donate a dollar or two, and they will pray for the homeless and pass 2 on the way home. but what if.....every sunday people took that hour and actually did some of these things they pray for? would any God you should ever worship not understand why you never went to church if you spent that time doing good? all that money collected around the world every day in the name of religion and all those prayers and a man can freeze to death surrounded by 1 million people all of whom had the means to save him. anyone interested in starting a group with me that doesnt talk and hope for the best but rather goes out and makes things happen? well i am and i dont care if i do it by myself.......so next time you find yourself praying for something that people themselves could fix or atleast make better, save it, go write a letter to santa or something.

-- Posted by JJGates on Tue, Dec 11, 2007, at 10:59 PM

-- Posted by mrcurious on Wed, Dec 12, 2007, at 7:52 AM

Maybe instead of "early outs" for teacher "corroboration" we should go back to the days of things that actually worked.

Kids actually in school instead of out of class for every excuse imaginable learning the basics of math, reading and science. They are what made this country great in the first place. Somehow we got away from the basics and more toward "teacher in service days."

It seems to me the more time kids have spent out of class over the years, the less intelligent we have become as a society.

Get the kids in class, keep them in class and teach the basics...I know it's a simple idea, but it works. Maybe too simple for the education system?

-- Posted by Paulie Walnuts on Wed, Dec 12, 2007, at 2:11 AM

Have we gotten so sue happy as a society that it has come down to a cold rain canceling school for 2 1/2 days?!

Parents only blame yourself, the days when school would happen come hell or high water are over. Officials are so scared of being sued that they now cancel classes when it rains. Brrr...this rain is cold...we might melt! Sad, sad, sad.

-- Posted by mrcurious on Wed, Dec 12, 2007, at 1:58 AM

I have seen no articles on the Deputy Superintendent's status and as to why he was not appointed to fill Mr. Gordon's shoes. An obvious appointment I would think...

In case you did not know Mr. Crump, he is "no longer around either." You might want to check into this also.

-- Posted by mrcurious on Mon, Dec 10, 2007, at 3:26 AM

Superintendent Rob Gordon has been placed on paid administrative leave pending further action by the board of education -- just to clarify.

So far, we don't have enough information to build an equation. It's more like 1 + x = y.

When we have more information from the school board, we might know what values to apply to the variables.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Sun, Dec 9, 2007, at 9:26 PM

JJGates: I still haven't heard from the original poster just which district we're talking about or when the alleged cheating took place. I'm afraid we don't have the time or inclination to do a blanket investigation of possible cheating some unknown somewhere in the area.

If this is in reference to the situation earlier this year in the Santa Fe district, there was a story published about it in The Concordian. I haven't read it in a while so I hesitate to comment, but I'll find a copy and see if I can shed any light here.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Sun, Dec 9, 2007, at 9:39 AM

I wonder how many people will spend $1100 to $1800 to buy a brick for the aviation museum?I'm sure glad we live in community that believes a civic center and museum are more important than helping keep kids busy and out of trouble and raising the money to build a cancer center.

GET YOUR PRIORITYS STRAIGHT DON'T BUY A DUMB BRICK!!!

-- Posted by yomomma on Fri, Dec 7, 2007, at 12:19 PM

Changes to the website are great!

Having grown up in Shackelford with family still in the area, I visit at least once a year and really enjoyed the guestbook until it got a little crazy. I'm glad you're back, with reasonable restrictions.

I know little about a lot of the concerns I've seen on the website lately but will share some of my own. The courthouse and the square have been there through all my years on this earth and it would be sad if they disappeared. When I was there in July-August I was disappointed to see what I remember as a very "alive" and "prosperous" area of the town seem almost non-existent. I commend the shops and businesses on the square that have survived the business 65 explosion and pray that the empty buildings can be revived with useful endeavors and businesses.

I was very pleased that the Marshall Library has a genealogy section - OK, so I may be a little behind. And also that there is a Saline County Historical Society and to speak with Mildred Connor when I was there.

I would hope that there would be a way to protect the historical significance of any changes which might be considered. Old buildings have "heart" too and many could be used to support useful endeavors which are not necessarily profit motivated. Renovations are often necessary with old buildings and, hopefully the character of that building can remain, but I hope demolition is not in the plans being considered. I may live in Colorado, but a part of me has never left my home in Saline County.

-- Posted by cmsummers on Wed, Dec 5, 2007, at 3:05 PM

Please tell us why Mr. Gordon is on adm. leave.PLEEEEASE

-- Posted by yomomma on Wed, Dec 5, 2007, at 2:46 PM

Dear investig8,

Are you speaking of a particular school district? If you name no names we know not who to blame -- nor who is innocent -- and are left to suspect everyone or no one.

-- Posted by Eric Crump on Wed, Dec 5, 2007, at 6:59 AM

it is very disturbing to hear of a few elementary teachers who altered children's map tests in an attempt to raise their schools test scores. even more embarassing is the fact that the principal and the superindent covered it up.

how can we teach our children not to cheat when their teacher and superintendent are?

-- Posted by investig8 on Tue, Dec 4, 2007, at 9:15 PM

This new speakout option will either stop or enforce all the coffeshop gossip. lol

-- Posted by yomomma on Fri, Nov 30, 2007, at 8:56 AM

It sure would be nice to be able to watch a baseball or softball game in the middle summer, with new bleachers and backstops on the ballfields.scoreboards and winter wonderlands are nice, but give the kids and parents,who pay for their kids to play,a enjoyable place to spend two or three nights a week in the hot summer.

-- Posted by yomomma on Fri, Nov 30, 2007, at 8:50 AM

Funny how the only board member to have a problem with a great program such as the After School is the board member whose family has had a history of bad dealings with the YMCA.

Personal feelings and grudges should be put aside to benefit the kids.

Your true colors are showing Mr. Godsey.

-- Posted by mrcurious on Thu, Nov 29, 2007, at 9:14 AM

Water rates are going up again!MMU must need another new bucket truck.

-- Posted by yomomma on Tue, Nov 27, 2007, at 2:18 PM

Let's kill two birds with one stone.

Kids need excercise and busses need fuel, right? Maybe its time to go back to neighborhood schools where kids can walk and ride bikes instead of bussing them all over hell's half acre and wasting fuel. It worked just fine when I was a kid.

-- Posted by What the f...... on Mon, Nov 26, 2007, at 3:33 PM

One thing that none of you have mentioned is the "trickle down" effect early outs have. Not all children that go to Marshall Schools live in Marshall. What about the rural towns that pay tuition to send their kids to Marshall High? So now instead of just effecting Marshall, we are effecting Blackwater, Orearville, Miami, all rural area K-8 schools that bus children to Marshall. What do we do with these kids?? Make them sit on a bus in the parking lot for 30 minutes waiting for us to dismiss? Drive them around aimlessly wasting gas? Take them home and then run a whole second bus route for other kids, once again wasting transportation funds? Let them into the building to disrupt K-8 instruction time? Dismiss hundrends more students early, taking away intruction time from EVEN MORE kids? What is the answer??

-- Posted by freckles on Fri, Nov 23, 2007, at 9:24 AM

Nice upgrade on the webiste. Golf Clap!!!!!!!

-- Posted by rudy486 on Tue, Nov 20, 2007, at 5:10 PM

It is nice to see that this forum was included in your renovation. Hello to Al, Bill, et al. I enjoyed the electronic friendship we established within the long discontinued guest book.I remain heartsick regarding the misbegotten Iraq War. The answers chosen by the readers of your current poll question seem to reflect that many others share the sentiment.

-- Posted by Oklahoma Reader on Tue, Nov 20, 2007, at 1:24 AM

What a great new website! As a long-distance reader of the Marshall Democrat-News, I greatly appreciate the upgrades & new features. Good job!

-- Posted by koeller77 on Fri, Nov 16, 2007, at 12:28 PM

yes we have alot of kids that wont get anything for christmas this season ,parents are having a hard time with money and the price of gas , to get anyting for those kids, if there somebody out there they could them let me know , because my oldest daughter is real having a rough time this year, tks

-- Posted by quietriver on Wed, Nov 14, 2007, at 3:58 PM

The holiday project is the county wide assitance for people who wish to obtain help in getting christmas gifts. you can register at saline count family services office or at missouri valley community action agency the deadline to register is 11/27/07 and the shopping day will be 12/07/07

-- Posted by workingmom on Wed, Nov 14, 2007, at 10:24 AM

I understand that it is hard to find a place to take your child when school lets out early, but teachers are parents also. As a teacher we are required to have so many inservices to help further our knowledge about certian topics. In the school district I teach at the teachers have to sign a paper to prove that they were attending these in services. The inservices are not a day for the teachers to get away from the students and take time off. They are still working!

-- Posted by duke2007 on Wed, Nov 14, 2007, at 9:25 AM

I was wanting to know if there is someone or a group of people that will help low income familys to buy christmas gift ?

-- Posted by LindaLou on Tue, Nov 13, 2007, at 9:44 PM

I'm glad to see this forum back on the site. I realize that the previous guest book became more of a forum than a guest book. I'm glad to see an acutal forum now. Maybe now you can have a guest book that will stay a guest book.

Thanks Again!

-- Posted by What the f...... on Fri, Nov 9, 2007, at 6:49 PM

I was pleased to read in your Friday's edition of the paper that you are supporting youth in hunting. However, I believe that the article on the girl who got 2 bucks may be misleading-- as the horn specifics were not mentioned on the second buck and the picture of the 1st buck apears to be more than a spike buck-- it leads the reader to believe that the second buck may have been taken illegally and could possibly get this child in trouble--or give others the impression that it is legal to take 2 "full" bucks in one season. This should really be clarified

-- Posted by workingmom on Fri, Nov 9, 2007, at 3:50 PM
Response by Eric Crump/Editor:
Good point. The second deer was described to me as a "button buck." This non-hunter didn't realize it mattered. Always good to learn something new!

The Marshall Public School system certainly was not taking into consideration working parents when they made the decision to dismiss school a half day early the first Wednesday of each month and early outs the remaining Wednesdays for their teacher in-service meetings. Do they not realize the burden placed on working parents to provide proper after school care for their children? What about those students who wait after the early dismissals for sports practice or other activities unsupervised? Is there a sign up procedure to verify teachers are attending and stay for the entire in-service meetings?

Perhaps they should rethink and have these in-service meetings prior to school time or even Saturday mornings.

-- Posted by Muffin on Fri, Nov 9, 2007, at 3:07 PM

Hopefully this winter will see lots of snow!

-- Posted by Green Eyes on Fri, Nov 9, 2007, at 10:09 AM


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