![[Marshall Democrat-News]](http://www.marshallnews.com/images/nameplate-small.png){kind=small}
Marshall, Missouri ~ Tuesday, May 13, 2008
| Blogs | 
|
|
Are Schools Getting Out of Bounds
Posted Friday, April 11, 2008, at 1:59 AMRead comments | Respond | Email link | Next >>
Last night I listened to a news broadcast about schools passing out condoms to school students in their schools. I know the whole story about safe sex. But there's another problem that is not being addressed.
In 1994 one of my parishioners was dying of AIDS. While I was talking to him and his life partner (who did not have AIDS) I asked him if they used protection or were they still sexually active. He replied no. He told me that according to the Nation Center for Disease Control and Prevention that sexual activities with a person who has AIDS was unsafe even if they used protection.
I have one question.
If it's not safe to have a sexual encounter with a person who has AIDS even if you use protection, then what makes it safe if you don't know if a person has AIDS?
Just one man's opinion. What do you think?
John Q. Comments Showing comments in chronological order [Show most recent comments first] |
Hot topics Are Schools Getting Out of Bounds(33 ~ 11:11 PM, May 11)
Rental Dumps and Slum Lords
High Gas Prices
TEXT MESSAGES-I NEED HELP!
Tension in Tibet & China
 |
![[Feed icon]](http://www.marshallnews.com/images/icons/feed-icon-14x14.png){kind=icon}
I don't think the problem is the schools getting out of bounds. The problem is that there are so many parents who expect the schools to take on their duties rather than being responsible for their own children. Let's see parents start having candid discussions with their offspring about sex and STOP letting 3-year olds be exposed to violent movies and video games. Then maybe the schools can concentrate on educating the children rather than figuring out how to fill in the gaps left by the parents.
BD43, A condom is not a cure all for all of the problems associated with sexual intercourse. If the school is going to pass out condoms then they need to explain the possibilities and realities of having sex with someone who is infected with AIDS. The infected person may not even be aware they are infected or are less than honest by not telling their sexual partners. We are talking about a possible death sentence here. If the schools feel compelled to pass out condoms and not explain the situation then, I believe they should shoulder some of the responsibility.
Again, Just One Man's Opinion
John Q.
John,
I couldn't agree more. I remember a statistic from several years back that said if the AIDS virus was the size of a basketball, then relatively speaking the hole or pore in the average condom is the size of a double entry door.
Whether this statistic is accurate or not, these schools who are handing out condoms are giving a false sense of security if they are not preaching statistics such as these.
Here's one more scary thought, and this was a teen who pointed this out to me:
Even less safe is a non-latex condom. It's printed right on the package "Intended as birth prevention for monogomous couples ONLY. NOT intended or suitable for stopping the spread of sexually transmitted diseases." The package goes on to say that only Latex condoms are appropriate to *prevent* the spread of STD's.
I wonder if the schools are aware of this....
Is this occurring in Marshall schools?
Kathy,
To my knowledge, no. But I do know the high school has had "the sex talk" this week intermingled with the MAPP testing. I'm not sure who could answer this question.
I'd like to think in this community there would be a huge uproar if this were the practice. It's rumored (unsubstantiated as far as I know) that a few years back an adult provided a "visual aid" during one of the sex talks at the middle school. What *is* substantiated is that a LOT of people got bent out of shape over that.
Kathy, not that I know of, but these actions have no boundaries. These so called progressive schools are setting a precedent that others may follow.
John Q.
This may add fire to the discussion: About six months ago, I had a conversation with a woman who worked at a local gas station. She said a young boy, no more than perhaps 12 or so by her reckoning, had come in and attempted to buy condoms. When she refused, citing company policy, he swore at her, and said he would buy them elsewhere, giving the name of a place where he said he'd bought them before. There is no "legal" age to purchase condoms, and therefore, no need for anyone to pass them out - anyone who wants them can get them. For that reason alone, there should be *more* education about their use and their limitations - not less.
I'm not saying a condom is the cure of all STDs. I'm saying that one of the biggest tools against STDs is parental involvement in sex ed. Believe me, my parents never said a word about it and the main reason I didn't end up pregnant was I was lucky enough to have friends (whose parents DID talk to them) who were committed to behaving responsibly and I followed their example.
Well, considering that the "just say no" abstinence only program is a dismal failure, that our teen birth rates and STD rates are skyrocketing, that it is estimated that nationally 1-in-4 teenage girls have some sort of STD, and that "virginity" has become a sign of dorkdom to most teens, maybe those 'so called progressive schools' are just trying to deal with the realities with which they are faced daily in their classrooms... IMHO
telling people to not have sex is like telling a person not to eat. bible schmible.... we know that humans have basic instincts (they are natural and not some red tailed guys way of tricking us) and its much more practical to manage these instincts rather then deny them.
if you put a starving man in a brick building with 200 steaks for 8 hours a day....he is going to eat, might as well give him the proper equipment so he doesnt eat the steaks raw and catch that oh so dangerous mad cow.....
Before the aids epidemic if a boy or girl got a STD all they had to do is go to the family doctor or health clinic and get a big dose of penicillin. AIDS can be a death sentence! The question bears repeating here, "if it's not safe to have a sexual encounter with a person who has AIDS even if you use protection, then what makes it safe if you don't know if a person has AIDS?
John Q.
John Q. shame on you. You accepted a statement by a parishioner as truth with out fact checking it. You can go all over the internet, and find that the fact is that condoms are effective at preventing AIDS. The Center for Disease Control is one place you could start. Nothing is one hundred percent effective. Human error assures that. The statement that the holes in the latex allow the virus to pass through is patently false. In the future please do not ask our response based on a false premise.
John Q.here is an afterthought before I hit the sack. Many AIDS cases are prevented by condom use, but not all. Therefore it is better that they be used than nothing at all. Some of those that got off topic a bit, and into sex education at schools presented the best argument for said sex education. Their ignorance indicates that the general populace is not qualified to give scientifically accurate sex education to their children. They should retain the right to teach their children their moral beliefs about sex, but please leave the science to those who know.
Oklahoma,
Could you expand on your last post? I think the general idea here is schools passing out condoms. Presumably, although progressive, this *is* part of sex education at these schools. I'm not sure who you are calling ignorant here...
Ok Reader, I take the word of a man dying from aids. My wife for one could not use birth control pills because she had heath issues. We used protection and still I have four beautiful daughters. That's my life experience and my response to your comment.
Oklahoma Reader, your statement, "Nothing is one hundred percent effective. Human error assures that," is exactly correct. In response to your statement, "the holes in the latex allow the virus to pass through is patently false," I didn't make that statement.
John Q.
With reference to ignorance, I don't see where anyone made the statement that holes in condoms let the virus pass right through. If anything stated here is patently false, it is your assertion that this statement was made. You have extrapolated a statement of fact from an idea/example that was already explained to be several years old. I'm thinking the "reader" part of your tag must be more of a concept than a strategy.
Regardless of the accuracy of the statistics, I will make my last point here: this isn't the AIDS *era* or the AIDS *situation*. Nor is it even the AIDS *crisis*. It is the AIDS *EPIDEMIC*.
Apparently (to personify) AIDS isn't alone. According to Okie, it is second only to ignorance in the human tragedy arena.
Smokin Cheetah talk to Bill in Raytown. I have nothing to say to you.
Smokin'Cheetah, you wrote:
"But I do know the high school has had "the sex talk" this week intermingled with the MAPP testing. I'm not sure who could answer this question....I'd like to think in this community there would be a huge uproar if this were the practice."
Why would you like the community to raise a huge uproar? Holy cow! I should HOPE that they had more than "the sex talk" by the time they are in high school for cryin' out loud! (They actually got information on STD's and Gardasil, which I oppose as a mandated vaccine but obviously the company has a government grant to push it...) As far as condoms go, hand em out! Latex ones. Better covered now than covered with dirt too soon! If there is an uproar, it should be against this totally ineffective waste of taxpayers' dollars called 'abstinence education'.
And to answer your question, what makes it safe if you don't know? Nothing. MTV, and several of the music channels have been running a campaign encouraging young people to cover it up, wear protection, get tested, NO until you KNOW, etc. While some parents may not agree with that approach, teens and young people need to know how serious it is.
By the way, the last time I looked, one of the largest growing populations of AIDS victims in this country is elders over 60.
Dear NanaDot,
The statement I made about there being a huge uproar in this community was in reference to the question that was posed, "Are they doing this in Marshall Schools (handing out condoms)?" You have mis-quoted me. I never said I would like that *to happen*. I said I would like to THINK it *would* happen. This is one of those cases where I'm going to have to suggest that you not try to sharpen a pencil with a cotton swab. The point is, I would like to think that there are enough parents in Marshall MO who still give a damn enough about their kids to be PARENTS. Which brings me to my next point:
My reasons are simple: unlike you and many others, I won't depend upon or rely on any entity--including the school--to do my job as a parent. Why are these schools so progressive? Because lazy parents who don't want to do the job of parenting allow them to be. Hell, they FORCE them to be. And of course, when little Suzy is pregnant or infected....or strung out on dope along side her boyfriend Johnny....its the school's fault.
Bill Cosby made an excellent point: These are the parents who will buy their kid a $500 pair of shoes to shut them up, but won't spend $200 bucks to hire a mentor to help them succeed.
With reference to your Over 60 statistic: I won't argue the validity of that claim. However, I will share with you that I've read several articles and watched a documentary or two about a growing trend: successful "elderly" caucasian American women seeking sexual relationships overseas. Wanna guess where? Africa. Have you heard lately where the largest AIDS epidemic exists? Africa. So, pulling my opinion from a recent string about drug use and other criminal behaviors, I will emphatically state I have no sympathy for this select age group who endangers themselves knowingly. We've digressed....
Dear Oklahoma,
My apologies for the stab. You are an eloquent speaker--it seemed rather out of character for you to put words that were never *spoken* in someone's mouth. Regardless of our opinions on the possible solutions and failures of the current statistics, can't we agree that AIDS is an epidemic?
Smokin'Cheetah,
Cheap shots are not necessary - the "unlike you" comment is uncalled for and blaming schools and us "lazy parents" doesn't cut it. No need to be insulting.
I asked why an uproar - "I never said I would like that *to happen*. I said I would like to THINK it *would* happen." What's the difference? If you view it as a matter of parents demonstrating their concern, OK.
"Progressive" is not a pejorative, and I don't believe that parents who don't agree with you don't "give a damn", or that they have abandoned their role as parents. Maybe the schools are doing the best they can given that too many parents are both working to make ends meet.
My point about the over 60 crowd is in agreement with the epidemic status of AIDS and that it is not a respecter of socially defined 'group'- it is truly equal opportunity, and we have to address it as such. People don't quit having sex because they're retired, and we need to address it at the Senior Centers as well as on MTV. There are always a few social thrill seekers as you noted, but the majority are not.
If handing out condoms saves a kid's life, I say do it. That's not abandonment - that precautionary and preventative. You can still do your job as a parent and tell your kids that you disapprove of it, etc. You, after all, are the most important influence in their lives. But if their friends or acquaintances don't make the same choices, do we by default condemn them and all their partners to almost certain death?
Nanadot,
I aplogize for the "unlike you" statement. It was unfair, unjust, and unfounded. I stand by my position that there are lazy parents wanting the schools to do their jobs for them, but I will amend that to, "some" lazy parents. This, I'm afraid, is a problem that will always exist.
Don't we, as parents, have a right to expect limits on a public school's involvement in a very obvious non-academic matter...matters of parenting?
We can disagree (and I'll do so in a civil manner in the future), but I *like* to think what I think based on the opinion that this is a small community, somewhat in the Bible belt, and most of the people I associate with would feel greatly offended if our public schools were practicing this.
I'm stubborn. Stated in another post. I don't argue the value of sex education in the schools (not to be two-faced). But I equate having the sex talk and handing out condoms to having the drug talk and handing out clean needles.
Cheetah - I agree that there are some lazy parents out there, but it's not a new thing, and you're right - there always will be.
As far as the schools getting involved in 'non-academic' topics, they do it all the time = they teach homemaking, life skills, child care - stuff that USED to be relegated to the home. Even here in the Bible-belt. And yes, as a parent, I think you have the perfect right to tell the school nurse, counselor, etc. that you do not want your child receiving those kinds of services - we used to have to get/give permission from each kid to do this stuff.
But in the real world, there are parents who are not available, not comfortable or knowledgeable, not around at all, and THOSE are the kids who need the most support and options. At least if it's a nurse or counselor, there is some point of adult contact and interaction.
I do not equate having the sex talk with handing out condoms, nor do I think they should be just handed out to everyone as handout - but if a kid knows enough to go ask for them, hand em out.
P.S. When we got them, most of us actually used them as water balloons for skip day anyway...:>))
"But in the real world, there are parents who are not available, not comfortable or knowledgeable, not around at all, and THOSE are the kids who need the most support and options. At least if it's a nurse or counselor, there is some point of adult contact and interaction."
-- Posted by NanaDot on Wed, Apr 16, 2008, at 6:36 PM
Nanadot,
For all my yodeling about my concern for kids, this is one point I never considered. And yes, for the most part I am thankful that there are concerned adults available for interested kids to talk to. Thank you for this *smack* upside the head.
To explain my emotion behind this, I should clarify that (aaarrrrggghhh) I would be thankful if my child went to a counselor and asked for for this. At least he/she showed that responsibility--even if he/she didn't feel comfortable talking to me about it (THERE! I just swallowed a truck-load of pride:)
However, some of what I hear of these "progressive" schools is very similar to your post about media-hype over pharmeceuticals: I understand some of these schools are simply throwing condoms out there--and are actually getting funding to do so (kickback). THAT is what I would hope would cause an uproar in this community, and my answer to John Q's question: Yes, this is WAY out of bounds. In my opinion, these schools are further encouraged by a parental attitude that says "better you than me--it's not my problem".
This explanation is long overdue, and again, I apologize to you for the negative statements I made earlier.
Smokin',
Reprise - thank you, and don't worry about it. I see your point to about wholesale handouts, and I agree with you. That would certainly be worth a discussion at least with the PTB.
The other point is that this is a very protected (can't think of a better word right now) area of the country, and the problems faced by urban schools are very different and very urgent. I just don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water...
Again, thanks and I appreciate your point of view very much.
Smokin' Cheeta you said "Whether this statistic is accurate or not, these schools who are handing out condoms are giving a false sense of security if they are not preaching statistics such as these." Upon reflection I do not think you were saying that we should be giving youth false information as a cautionary. when I first read it that is exactly what it seemed to say. I was equally imprecise in my statement. Apologies back at you.
Oklahoma Reader,
Thank you. Regretfully, I tend to act on my emotion sometimes and the clear point is dulled by that emotion. I look forward to more from you and Nanadot...I learn a great deal from you both.
Great blog entry! Sad the honest people are the ones kept honest by the hoops they have to jump through to have a gun while the criminals always seem to have easy access to them. Yep, preachin' to the choir!
I do not think that schools are out of bounds passing out condoms. Do you know how many young girls are getting pregnant. Would you prefer your child learn the safe way or get pregnant at the age of 15? Let's face it, it is now 2008 kids are doing things that YOU were not doing at that age. Passing out condoms is a very smart thing to do, because I can tell you that I am very tirefd of seeing these very young 15 & 16 girls getting pregnant. It's not all about aids...yes that is very important also, hopefully they are being educated for this matter too. I totally agree that this is the parents job to teach and educate their children but alot of parents could really care less... and I am very pleased that the schools step in and try to help!
LabGirl, To pass out condoms is not the problem. To not inform children to the dangers of STD's and the consequences if one acquires one thinking that a condom is a prevention of STD's is. In my blog I asked the question, "if it's not safe to have a sexual encounter with a person who has AIDS even if you use protection, then what makes it safe if you don't know if a person has AIDS?" A false sense of security can only lead to disappointment unless all of the facts are laid out on the table.